Planning and Zoning Board - Regular Meeting

Good afternoon. It's 6.01 p.m. Wow, this is loud. Okay. Can we have a roll call?

Yes, Vice Chair. For Member Balmell?

Here.

For Member Licorice-Absen? For Member McKenzie-Absen? Alternate book member, Levi Levy, sorry.

Here.

Alternate board members, the bell. Chair for this absent vice chair Bravo here. Mr. You have a quorum.

Thank you very much. Um, the first item in the agenda is a town commission liaison report. I don't know if we have a liaison.

The mayor is not present today.

OK. And now what is going to take that portion?

Steve is.

The liaison?

Well, he's going to be acting like more than liaison. He's the town attorney, so.

Right. Let's wait for that portion. Great. Thank you. Thank you very much. APPROVAL OF MINUTES. LAST TIME WE LEFT THE APRIL 30th MEETING PENDING.

YES, IT WAS DEFERRED TO THIS MEETING.

EXACTLY. SO BOARD MEMBERS, WE NEED TO APPROVE, REJECT COMMENT ON THE APRIL 30th.

A motion to approve the minutes from April 30th.

Your second motion.

All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Motion carries.

Now let's go to the meeting, meeting minutes on May 28th. May 28th, anyone?

Mr. Estopel, can you please speak into the microphone?

Yes, I make your button there.

I make a motion to approve the minutes of May 28th, 2026. I second.

All those in favor say aye.

Aye.

Any opposed?

Aye.

Motion carries.

And now we go to number four if we want to discuss any order of business in here?

We can... I think the town attorney.

Need to push something here? Yeah, that's good.

Hi, good evening. I'm Steve Helfman. Nice to see you all. We may have met at the last meeting or not everybody individual, but I'm the town attorney. And I got a call from several council people, commissioners and other interested people recently asking me if I would take a few minutes and come before you and try to share some thoughts about the role of the board. And in the context of what actually the code provides for, because there are, and it's not just with your board, it's with the commission and everything else. Just over time, patterns occur and boards take on different issues, sometimes outside of the scope of what they should be doing. There becomes confusion. Start to inject different issues and so I said, I'd be happy to do that. And so with your indulgence, if I can, I wanted to take a couple of minutes and just share with you. I'm sure you've all read this. Some of you've been on the board before. Um, and so you probably know this, so if I'm repeating something, just. Dave Kuntz, bear with me just for a minute. Dave Kuntz, This board has by the code. Dave Kuntz, Three different obligations. Dave Kuntz, One is called zoning matters Okay, and those are matters that. can encompass things like comprehensive plan issues and variances and conditional use permits and special use permits and vested rights issues. And those do come to you from time to time. They're a little bit more structured. There's rules around them. There's a particular purpose for them. You might get a variance, and you know that the rules are that you have to have a hardship and that it doesn't provide a special benefit to the person other than other neighbors have. And so it's a bit of a structured process in terms of what you're supposed to be doing and deciding. The second responsibility, which is the one that I want to spend a little bit of time on, is design review. That's the number two power and duty. And the last one is called FEMA review. I don't think you guys ever get that. Maybe you'll get an item for FEMA review. And that deals with FEMA variances or appeals from flood criteria. My guess is you probably haven't had any. And that's where somebody may want to build below the flood criteria that's permitted, and they come to you and ask to vary that particular provision. Highly unusual. Governments generally don't do that because when they do that, they put what they call their CRS at risk, which is the rating system that allows you to get flood insurance. So really, you deal with the zoning issues, and you deal with design review. And my comments are really around design review, because from what I can see, and I'm new, but from what I can see, a good portion of what you all do is design review, typically residential homes, right? so that's a that's a unusual role for a board like you okay um zoning boards hear variances and things like that but you all have this unique thing which is not an architectural review board which a lot of communities have like carl gables and bow harbor and but you don't have that okay you're not that rigid you don't you're not acting as architects and telling people how to design their homes okay or you shouldn't be but but that's so you have this third power which is design review so what is that okay it's something that honestly I've never really seen in a code okay and I'll read to you what that is your job is to deal with design guidelines okay so the city's established a set of design guidelines those are the rules for either modifying a house adding an addition or building a new house okay you got a book here this is it okay I think I saw you looking at it a few minutes ago right okay Um, this, this is what, I don't know who's an architect here. Somebody. Yeah. You look like an architect and you're an architect. This is, this is the rules for the architects and the homeowners. Okay. This tells them what they're supposed to do in this town. It's a set of guidelines that the commission has adopted, whether you like it or not. It is the guidelines for a designer and a homeowner. that you're supposed to follow, okay? You may like that, you may not like it, but that's what it is, okay? So when a applicant comes here, they are assumed to have had this book and worked with this book and tried to design a home consistent with this, okay? It's not architectural guidelines, but it's design guidelines, okay? So you start with that premise. So what happens? So you come in with a set of plans and the staff gets those plans. And what is really supposed to happen, and Scarlett and I have had a conversation about this, is that the staff is supposed to look at that application and review it and see their role, like yours, but even more so is to see if that house has been number one meets the zoning code, okay? Setbacks, height, the proper amount of open space, the proper lot coverage, the pool setback, the accessory buildings are proper, zoning criteria that you have nothing to do with. Okay, that's not your role, okay? And then the second thing when an application comes in for design review approval is the staff's supposed to evaluate it and see how close it is to this, okay? And give you a recommendation on whether or not that home conforms with this, okay? That's not been the practice in the past, okay? understand that and we've had this conversation and I think you're gonna see at the next meeting that you're gonna get a more complete assessment of homes and in terms of do they meet the guidelines or not because that's what you're here for and you want their input on whether that's happening okay so then what happens now it's you guys The application gets here. The architect's supposed to have complied with this. The planner's supposed to give you input on what they think, where the variations might be. And they may say, hey, the landscaping's not right. The lighting's not right. The front door's in the wrong place. Whatever. They're going to give you that input. Okay. Now, so this is the weird part. Okay. This is your role. Design guidelines. Okay. Okay, the town has adopted design guidelines intended to provide direction and suggestions for all development, directions and suggestions. That's what these are, okay? The purpose of the Planning and Zoning Board, okay, here we go. When conducting design review is to interpret those guidelines, okay, and provide guidance this is really important, guidance to the applicants as to how the design should be revised to more closely approximate or reflect the town's adopted guidelines. So let's just take a minute and pause at that. So this tells you what you're supposed to be doing here. you're supposed to be assisting the architects and the homeowners on how to meet these requirements, okay? That's, I see you kind of turning, okay? But that's the job, okay? The job is to Look at these guidelines, look at the staff analysis, and then assist the owners in how to conform with the guidelines. You are there to help them figure out how to get closer to the guidelines. Now, if it comes in and it's a perfect house, then there's no guidance. We love it. It's great move approval. Okay. Um, If it doesn't meet the intent of these guidelines and it conflicts with those, then your job is to go through, each one of you, and try to come to a consensus on what it is that this person needs to do to conform with the guidelines. And maybe you say, listen. You're supposed to have an oval window, not a square window. Okay. We think you should be doing this or this because that's what the guidelines say. Not because you would like it, but because the guidelines say that's the way your house should be done. Okay. So you're there as an, almost in an advisory role. Okay. I know it sounds weird. I've never seen it done, but this is what the code says you're supposed to do. Okay. So. So then what happens is you got three choices at the end of the meeting. Okay. You can approve it because it meets the guidelines and these guys walk out of here happy. We did our job and they go to the permit counter. Okay. You can approve it with conditions. Okay. That means we think it's great, but we'd like you to make this column a little bit narrower, and we'd like to see the lighting adjusted this way or whatever it happens to be to more closely conform with this. And you give them a list of conditions, and they walk out of here happy, hopefully. And between here and the permit counter or the plans that they submit, they'll adjust it. and Charlotte will look at it when she's doing her review and say, yes, you guys did what the board wants you to do, okay? The next thing that you can do is basically defer, okay? Which is to say to the applicant, you know what? This just isn't, it's not there. You guys are, you don't have it together. It's not right. It's not meeting the guidelines. What we would recommend is a deferral and go back, work on this design, and come back. And let's see if we can get you a approval. So that probably happens a lot here. I don't know. My guess is to get through this, sometimes it takes more than one meeting. Am I right? OK. Well, OK. So that's very common, okay? And so they'd come back a second time, maybe the next meeting, maybe the second meeting, just depends on whatever it is, and they'd present it and you'd say, yeah, you got it, or no, you don't, okay? You can make them come back twice, actually two times in total, okay? After that, you have to make a decision. You can't keep making them come back here. The code says... that there are you have to two shots at this okay that's all now they can keep on coming back if you want, but you can't mandate that they keep on coming back okay so. And hopefully at the end of that second meeting they either walk out with an approval you got it or they walk out with an approval with conditions and they're happy or. If you say, forget it, you guys, God bless you. You guys, you don't get it. Something's wrong here. There's a disconnect, but you're denied. Okay. History. See you later. Okay. So that, that's what this is about. Now I see Carolyn shaking her head. Maybe that's because she doesn't like that or because she doesn't think that's the way it's supposed to work, but We can talk about that. And so this is what I wanted to share with you. Okay. I wanted you to have the context of what the code says, because you can go off on a bunch of stuff. Why I know James isn't here, but I remember last time he was hyper-focused on whether or not the stairs were allowed to be under the FEMA code. Okay. Not your issue. Okay. That's, that's an issue. for the building department and everybody else, okay? That's an issue for this guy. When you come to the counter and he looks at it and whatever's below the first floor, he's gotta decide whether you can have that or not. Even if it's in your plans or not in your plans, he ultimately has that decision. That's not your job. Okay, so I've said enough. Questions, comments?

I think it's an excellent discussion and a great overview, and it was very, very helpful for me to understand exactly the role here, our role.

Good, good. Thank you. Thank you very much.

I appreciate your knowledge and giving us this information.

Thank you. And if you have any questions, feel free to reach out to me. Maybe Alex, he knows this just as much as I do, but I got the call from the commissioners who asked me to show up, so I'm here. Yes, Carolyn, or Jake? That was very helpful. Okay, good, good.

It was good information. However, I think these design guidelines I don't like the name, guidelines. I think suggestions and recommendations. I think that we are really here to be the cheerleader of anybody that wants to do work to a house or wants to build a building or wants to tear down and build a new house. I think we're here to say, yay, we want you to do that. We want the improvement. And I think that this stymies people. I think it takes out their own creativity. I think it takes the creativity away from us. I think that the town planner's role is kind of set where she comes to the board and says, these are recommendations. And whether it's to approve or not approve or to deny or to defer, we get that. But what I don't like is that these design guidelines act as a dictatorship in many respects. I think a lot of it appears like that, and I think it's wrong. I think it's wrong because I think that architects have views and opinions and visions of what they would like to see. I don't think it's our role to tell them, you can't do that. In fact, I think it's illegal to tell them that. It's like a piece of art. Whether you're improving something, building something new, or putting up a new structure, it's a piece of art. And that is how we're viewing it. Whether we like it or not is not the most important thing. What we're here to determine is, is it going to be suitable for the healthy kind of growth that we see the town of Surfside experiencing, which is what we're doing. There's a lot of things wrong in there. And I think that the whole thing should be just scrapped and not look like chat GPT did it and not be so opinionated in some places. Like you can only do this and you can't do a double high window that goes to the height of what you're allowed. I think that's ridiculous. Someone could come with something absolutely stunning that reaches that height. I'm not going to tell them they're wrong. They love it. That's what they want. Let them do it.

So I hear you. And that's a significant policy decision that the commission has to make in terms of whether they want to change what is historically been this process. Now, this is the newer version, but there was a version before this, and the commissions have historically gotten involved in the design of homes, okay? I hear you. That's not necessarily, you know, I'm the town attorney in Golden Beach. They don't do that. There is a design review board, but there are no guidelines. They don't tell you how to design your house. You can get some weird stuff, but it is what it is. And then Carl Gables, of course, is just the opposite, where they tell you very specifically what kind of barrel tile roof you're going to have and, you know, with some flexibility. So there's a whole realm of how much the government gets involved in telling you what they want and what they don't want beyond a zoning code. Okay? So this is... I'm not here to judge what... what form of process you guys should use. I'm just trying to help. As long as you were under this process, I just wanted to give you a sense of what the role is. And it's a very unusual role. When you say cheerleader, to a certain extent, this is a bit of a cheerleading exercise, which is, yeah, yeah, we want to help you get there. This is how you can get there. But... it does set a set of rules within which you're operating. So yeah, I think that you have an issue to deal with your policymakers in town about where this should go. And I've heard the same thing from other members of this board, which is why are we here? Maybe we shouldn't be doing this. For now, you got appointed to a board by a council that has a set of rules, and this is what the process is.

And I do appreciate, I think we all appreciate your input in here. I do appreciate clarifying the role of the board and the board members. I happen to strongly agree with Mrs. Bomell on the design guidelines. However, this is what we have so far, right? So we have to take it to the next step.

And by the way, one of the roles you do have, let's go back to that a second, okay? As long as we're talking about it, so I don't wanna make trouble, but. One of the roles you do have.

You brought it up.

Under zoning is to review and make recommendations to the town manager and the town, Commission regarding adopting an amendment of this official zoning map the land development regulations, which these are Zoning district boundaries and comprehensive plan amendments. Okay, so one of your zoning powers which we didn't talk about is That if you think that there should be change in the in this yes you all have the power by a majority vote to to recommend to the commission that they change this so if you if there's a sense amongst this board a majority of you that you think that this should be changed then you can pass a resolution and send it to the commission and tell them what you'd like to see so what you're saying is we can

I mean, but how do we place it verbally that we want to put a resolution, which is a recommendation to the commission?

Yes. In the form of a recommendation. So you would develop a recommendation collectively amongst yourselves as to what you think should happen with the land development regulations. Okay. Which are, these are land development regulations. So the recommendation could be to rescind them. The recommendation could be to modify them and then suggest what modifications. Maybe you still think there is a role for this board to play. So just so you know, that wasn't why I came here, but you've raised the issue and you have that power to initiate potential changes in the code. Perfect, good, thank you very much. Okay, I'm sorry to take up your time, but anyway.

Very good information, thank you very much. Okay. Let's move.

Vice Chair, if I may, there is one speaker on this item. George. We have George Kuzles.

Yes. I was gonna say, let's move to the speakers.

I didn't know I had one. My apologies. That's what this was. So, George.

Yes. George was like, you know, like, I'm here, I'm here.

So, George Kouselis, 9225 Collins Avenue. You had a very good synopsis of what your role is up here, as you pretty clearly heard. You're not sitting up there for the zoning code. Zoning code is arithmetic, and it's either yes or no, inside or outside, too much or just right or too little, or underneath the line. You're here because of the design guidelines, and as you also heard, you may, like the ones that are published, you may not like the ones that are published, you may have found the ones that existed two months ago to be woefully out of date, but the design guidelines are in there. Now, the other thing is you may not like the idea of design guidelines, but until you change the town code, you have the design guidelines and you are supposed to follow them. Now, the design guidelines, if they're good guidelines, should not say you have to have an oval window versus a square window, right? It shouldn't go that far. But it may say something about your, The front of your house needs to have a certain degree of character. The garage is overwhelming. Everything else is out of balance. Clearly, you have two meetings, two sessions, where you can tweak the thing, because you like to. But it's very clear. If you look at the code, and it's 9018, parentheses A, parentheses 1, the section is intended to promote excellence in architecture and urban design, preserve the towns, blah, blah, blah. And to implement this, the board shall review and evaluate applications against the design guidelines. That's your role, that's why you're spending every Tuesday evening at the end of every month up here. One process is to try and have the commission change the code, but you have to change the code. Until you do that, this is what you do. And I think you have to use your judgment and try and push the house in the direction the guidelines are intending it. It's not like if it meets, and you sometimes hear this, well, it meets the zoning code, we can't say anything. No, this tells you you are allowed to say things. The trick is to say the right things and to interpret the guidelines properly and apply them properly. So I just wanted to add that, and you know, one of the board members clearly doesn't like this process, but guess what, it's the process at the moment. So that's all I can say, thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Koslis.

And let's move on let's go to the applications, I'm sorry you don't want to make a motion to I don't know if it's in the form of a motion. To make a recommendation. To the Commission. A resolution.

I think that what you should do is place I'm sorry for the record against the health and I if you. If you're looking to exercise this particular power, I think that you need to place it on your agenda as a discussion item at your next meeting as to how you'd like to proceed, understanding that you have this power. If what you want to do is rescind these guidelines and go to a whole other form of process, then Maybe that's the recommendation that you'll have to develop as a group or at least the majority of you in terms of what your recommendation will be. But I think, um, just, just now to make a motion or recommendation is not the proper way to do it. You should bring this back for a discussion and action, and then formulate a resolution, which says, this is what we th this is our recommendation to the commission. We rescind, we. immediately embark upon a process of reexamining our code and the guidelines and panel aboard, whatever it is, however you think you want to go about this. But that's what you should do. You should put it on your next agenda to have a discussion about this so the public knows that you are discussing this. And they can come and participate. Thank you.

Now let me ask you a question.

Yes.

Can this be done at the commission level without us, without our recommendation, so they don't have to wait for us? Meaning these can be revisited?

One of the powers you have, you don't have to exercise it, is to do that. If you feel like you want to initiate that process from here, you can. If one or more commissioners want to put it on an agenda as a discussion item for themselves, which is I want to reexamine the whole process that we go through in the design review process, then they can do it.

And that would expedite the process because they don't have to wait for us.

Yes, but what I'm going to tell you is it likely going to happen is that they're going to bounce it back to you and say, I think what we should do is get the input of the planning and zoning board on this before we take any action.

Noted.

That's probably what they're going to do. So it's going to end up back with you guys anyway, one way or the other.

Perfect. Noted.

I knew that.

I think that where these guidelines were last let off was that there was some conditions attached, and that was before we were here. That's the first thing. I don't remember exactly what the wording was, but it was, there was some kind of conditions with it.

I'll do my best to remember. I believe it was changing some language from shall to should to make it a little bit more less, I mean a little bit more of a guideline versus a regulation type changes. And I think there was some slight changes to some of the suggestions to the photos that we had in for examples.

Well, if that's the case and these haven't been amended, then they probably should be, okay? They were, okay, so they're in here.

But I think I distinctly remember that they were taking the photos out and they were gonna do drawings.

That was another condition, I agree. Yeah.

So, that makes that null and void.

Yeah, there is a, I have heard some concern that residents are upset.

And actually, to add that some color, because that would be offensive to some neighbors. Yes.

Like my houses.

His houses. Wait a minute. This is just my taste. What I thought one of the most beautiful houses were in this is one that says, you should avoid building. And it was designed by George. And I'm not going to tell you which one it was, but I thought it was particularly attractive. And when I opened this up, it says, this is what you should not do. So everybody has their own.

I found that offensive. I really did. This is not what you should do. I just don't think you talk to people like that.

OK, well, that's, again, Run for council.

I think that we should, even as this group sitting here, that we should have it on our agenda as well as the commission agenda so it doesn't get bounced back to us. Yeah, I see this like working in parallel.

So what you could do today is you could move to place on your next agenda, okay? so that it's an action item today. Move to place on the agenda a discussion. A discussion regarding the future direction. Somebody has to do that.

Well, what is the language that I should be using because I want to get that ball rolling immediately, so is it a motion?

Somebody has to do the motion.

I cannot do it. Okay, so you could do this in two ways. One is, any one of you can place an item on the agenda that says discussion and action regarding guidelines.

But can we not?

Or today you can put just move to place on your next agenda a discussion item regarding and possible action regarding revisions to the revisions or modifications or rescission of the whatever you call them, design guidelines 226.

George, are you listening to that? Because I'm going to make a motion that on the next agenda, we have a resolution, a formal resolution put together, and do we want to revise or get rid of?

Okay, here's what I would suggest. You're racing, okay, and I know you want to act quickly, and that's okay. That's okay, but... Um, if you're, um, if what you want to do is actually place a resolution before your colleagues, then I think what you should do is prepare that resolution, which you'd like to see done. Okay.

Tag. You're it.

Okay. Tag. I'll help you figure out what to do. Um, and place it on the agenda. as a resolution for this board to consider, and you guys can walk through it just like the council walks through resolutions all the time. You like this word, you like that word, whatever you guys want to do, but bring forward an actual document that you can deliberate over.

Can we just make it a simple two-liner? Yeah. A resolution.

A resolution to rescind whatever or do whatever you want. Yeah, it could be.

Okay, help with the language here.

No, you don't have to decide now what that resolution is. But I want to. Okay, no, what I'm saying is make a motion to place on the next agenda a discussion and action item on modifications to the Planning and Zoning Board's design guidelines, okay? Okay. And then, It'll be on the agenda, and whoever wants to bring it forward can.

George, you want to add something?

Because of the way it sometimes works, that if you don't have it in the title of the agenda item, someone will say, well, you really can't talk about that. You can't talk about your vacation next summer because it wasn't on the agenda. I would say to have a discussion item to consider the role of the design guidelines. Now that opens up to do you change the zoning ordinance to get rid of your review of design guidelines? Do you change the design guidelines? Do you throw out the design guidelines and replace them? It leaves it open and that way you can have your discussion and reach a conclusion because that's when you direct the commission specifically what you're going to do. You're not doing that tonight. You're just trying to get this on the agenda so you can discuss it in the open because that's what you're required to do by law.

Yeah. I think George is right, but it does. But if you want to, um, you're not certainly precluded from bringing to that next meeting a proposed resolution that you have that you want to act on and adopt. Okay, that would come within the scope of that action. Then that's what I want.

I want a motion to bring the language as is.

No, you want a motion to place just... To place on the agenda. A discussion and potential action item on the... let's just say potential rescission of the design guidelines, okay? Now that will open up the whole discussion of this.

Is that the motion you want to make?

Now you're gonna get some action.

Well, it's not necessarily, how about revision?

Okay, revisions. You wanna make the motion?

Yeah.

Okay. I second the motion, okay. Madam Clerk.

Madam Balma, can you please state the motion again just to make it clear for the record?

Want me to help you? Yeah. The motion is to place on the next agenda a discussion and possible action item on revisions to the design, the 2026 design guidelines.

Okay.

Okay? And I think that's broad enough to address George's issue, which is, does it put the public on notice of what you will be discussing and doing? I think that's certainly broad enough, and you could probably take whatever action you wanted at that meeting, including within that, the revisions are to get rid of them.

Madam Clerk, can you read the motion again, please?

The motion is to place a discussion item and base a discussion and potential action item on the next agenda under the revision of the design guidelines.

Do you want to do that? Do you want to add the word revision and role of the design guidelines?

Add what?

Revision and role of the design guidelines.

I think the revision includes covers covers all the right whatever the The the role of those guidelines are yes, that's revisions Okay, I think I think you leave it at revisions and that will give you enough of a broad scope to take whatever action you want Yeah, I think it's good

Thank you.

Okay. Please. Sorry. Okay.

So that's a motion. It was seconded by Mr. Zappel. Board Member Baumel? Yeah. Board Member Levy?

Yep.

Board Member Zappel?

Yes.

Vice Chair Bravo?

Yes.

Motion carries.

Great. Thank you very much. Again, very informative. I appreciate that.

Are we still on the matter for new business? No, new business is at the end.

At the end, okay. So now we go to applications.

My apologies, Vice Chair. New business will be at the end of the agenda if there's any new business to add as of now under the order of business.

Okay, okay. My apologies, new business.

Now, okay, under the discussion of new business, I've been speaking to some of the residents about the permitting process for- Vice Chair, my apologies if I may.

There will have to be a motion made to add an item under the new business. So there will have to be a motion made for- I cannot make motions, I cannot make motions. To speak on this item.

I make a motion to add to new business, a motion about the permitting process from the building department.

I'll second that. All those in favor say aye.

Aye.

Any opposed? Motion carries. My apologies, this item will be added as item 9A at the end of the agenda, after the discussion items.

Thank you. Thank you. I've spoken, and I've been a part of, you know, I've requested permits for my own home. I've had other residents request permits, and we have a wonderful building department that really... Vice Chair, my apologies if I may.

This item is to be discussed at the end of the agenda, not at this moment.

Thank you.

Thank you. And another nine. Yep. Yeah, afternoon. Good enough, no other motions for new business or anything? Let's go to applications and now to an attorney. Very good, good afternoon, good evening.

The applications on this evening's meeting agenda are quasi-judicial in nature. The decision of whether or not to approve or recommend approval of such applications is not a popularity contest. We cannot base our decisions only on opinions, however important those opinions are. By law, we must base our decision on legal criteria and on substantial competent evidence. This means testimony or other evidence based on personal observation or relevant expert testimony that a reasonable mind would accept as adequate to support a conclusion. This includes recommendations of the town's professional staff, as well as some personal opinions about whether people are in favor of or against the application. Everyone shall be given an opportunity to speak. If you intend to provide testimony as to any of the applications considered tonight, you shall and must be sworn in by the clerk before your testimony is taken. Please know if you speak, you may be subject to cross-examination. If you refuse either to be cross-examined or to be sworn, your testimony will be given its due weight. The general public will not be permitted to cross-examine witnesses, but the public may request the board to direct questions on their behalf to either staff or the applicant. For each application considered tonight, we will first hear from town staff and then from the applicant. After this, the chair of the board will allow anyone from the audience who has been sworn in to provide testimony. Please make your comments concisely. Madam Clerk, can you confirm compliance with the advertising and notice requirements?

They have been confirmed.

Thank you. Board members, have any of you had any ex parte communications with the applicants or any member of the public either for or against any of the applications to be heard tonight? If so, please state so for the record and the nature of the communication.

Yes, I have. Mr. Rose called me and explained to me the intent of this design tonight.

Will your communications with Mr. Rose affect your ability to fairly weigh the evidence and make a decision based upon the evidence?

No, not at all. Thank you.

I did speak with Mr. Rose, but it was on a different matter, and it had nothing to do with the project. That's fine.

So, Madam Clerk, please swear in staff and those who intend to speak on the items of tonight's agenda.

Please rise and raise your right hand. Do you sign a firm to say the truth and only believe the truth? You may be seated.

Chair, you may proceed, and let's begin with staff recommendations, please, for the first item.

Thank you, our first item tonight is a sign located at 9454 Harding Avenue. This is a request to place one channel lit sign located on the wall face above the entrance of this building. One wall sign.

If I can interrupt you just for a second, my apologies. I do understand that signs are not the preview anymore, so now we come back to reviewing signs? The previous Commission put it back.

I mean, I'd like to make a motion, if I can, without going through the entire commercial wall sign permit and language, that this be returned to just the town planner again, and not to the Planning and Zoning Board, because I think our conversations went all the way back to eliminating it, because why are we making these people travel from Broward and Palm Beach

that are doing a sign and then they wait to be heard it's i just want to make a motion to remove it from planning and zoning and that it become the town planners so so that would be a motion like the one that you did recently for the guidelines and it's to have a discussion item to discuss a suggestion to the town commission that they consider removing the jurisdiction to review signs from this Planning and Zoning Board and make it an administrative application.

100%, just like that.

I move to second.

All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed?

No.

Motion carries.

That said.

Was it to be approved?

My recommendation is for approval, yes. It needs to be.

So we still need to discuss this? Absolutely. Okay, perfect.

Poor person, probably traveled. Okay.

So I need to open the floor for the applicant if they want to discuss.

If the applicant would like to say anything.

You don't need to. You don't need to. If you don't want to, you don't need to. Thank you. Anybody else wants to say something about this? Thank you very much. Now let's move.

Public comment closed. Very good. You need, we need a motion.

Back to my motion. Yeah. Move it back to the, what is it, resolution to move back.

No, no, no, motion to approve, right?

Oh, motion to approve, for God's sake.

I second.

All those in favor say aye.

Aye.

Aye. Any opposed? Motion carries.

Thank you very much. Sorry to waste your time.

And make you travel, I apologize for that.

It's so crazy.

You got it approved, okay. We go to 9149 Dickens Avenue, Home Addition.

Yes. This was for an addition to a home at 9149 Dickens Avenue. Staff finds that this application meets the zoning code requirements. and brings it before the board to confirm that it is consistent with the design guidelines. If the board finds that the plan is consistent, staff recommends approval with the condition that a drainage and grading plan will be presented for this home at building permit. The applicant is requesting site plan approval for an existing home. The applicant proposes adding 835 square feet to what is currently 2,448 square feet. The home will remain one story. The property is 5,625 square feet, and there are no variances requested. The addition will be in the front of the home. The proposed addition is about, it will remain 20 feet from the property line, which meets the front setback, and it will have an exaggerated rear setback at 27 and a half feet. The design elements include white stucco finish and paint in a beige color, light oak composite cladding, brown bronze aluminum frames, and permeable pavers in the driveway. The pursuant to the zoning code, the applicant shows that this is in compliant with the land use regulations. and staff recommends approval with that one condition regarding the grading drainage plans. Thank you.

Good evening, everybody. Nice to see you guys again. Jeff Rose, 9045 Hawthorne Avenue. So the home, Uh, that's a town planner explaining. It's a, it's originally a two bedroom, two bath house with a one car garage. I'm adding on two bedrooms, three baths to the front, and it's going to be a total of four bedrooms, four and a half bath with the pool in the back. The, in regards to the one comment by the town planner, the will, there'll be no retaining wall, the grade, on the house will be existing. I will coordinate with them and the building official on exactly how and what type of drainage they'd like me to do, but the pool will be at grade as well as the site will remain at grade. Nothing will be raised on site. If there's any comments or questions, I'm here for you guys.

Board members, does anybody want to say, oh, I'm sorry, time attorney? Public, oh, sorry. Does anybody in the public want to comment on this portion? We're close to the public, so now we go to the board members.

I think it's a beautiful design. I like the large windows. I like the cladding. What are you putting on the front? You said it's a white.

It's going to be stucco.

Stucco.

Stucco on the front and there's going to be some cladding with the composite wood on the front.

Is the roof line going to be, the ceiling line going to be the same or is it a higher ceiling?

It's a little bit higher. So it's about nine and a half feet in the addition and the standard eight foot four in the back.

Okay. Looks good. And a pool in the back.

A pool in the back, agreed, yeah.

That's great. Anybody else, more comments? I have a question, Mr. Rose. I love the fact that you're doing a one-story house. Why not the two-story massive house that you have been doing?

I'm going to let you guys fix the zoning code first. Or the commission. But no, this one, you know, based on where the cost is right now and the size and what was paid for it, just the numbers don't pencil out to do a... a house with the current setbacks for the size. It just, the math doesn't work, but to have a one-story home and it blends in. It's actually being, it's right next door to a new two-story house that is under construction, but this one I'm keeping at one-story. It kind of works and I think there's a market for the one-story legacy homes with the appropriate square footage. I know the, not this commission, the previous one, allow the language with the 50% coverage. And that's kind of, this one's at 2,400 square feet, so about 43%. So you can get four bedrooms on one story. And I guess with the way the current code is ready, you can only really squeeze on a standard lot about four bedrooms as well. So it just financially just made sense to keep it at one story and just a little bit smaller. Four bedrooms, four and a half bath.

If there are no questions, I need somebody to make the move.

Make a motion to approve Mr. Rose's future new home.

I second the motion.

Yeah.

My apologies, who second the motion?

Eric Stupel.

Thank you. Board Member Baumel? Yep. Board Member Levy?

Yeah.

Board Member Stupel?

Yes.

Vice Chair Bravo?

Yes.

The motion carries.

Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Rose. Congratulations. Item 5C, 9057 Byron Avenue, new single family home.

Yes, our final application tonight is for a new single family home located at 9057 Byron Avenue. Staff finds that this application meets the zoning code requirements and if the planning board should determine that it is consistent with the design guidelines, staff has a few recommendations for approval. One, that the drainage and grading plan and synthetic turf are reviewed and determined to be consistent with the code requirements, and at the time of building permit, the home will comply with the town's sustainability and resiliency program as defined in the code, section 9050.1, and will obtain a recognized green building certification based on all applicable standards. This is a request to construct a two-story single-family home on 5,625 square feet. The property is an interior lot. The finished features, smooth stucco molding and vertical wall accents on the front and sides, and the rear features are similar materials. The proposed lot coverage for the home is 1,967 square feet, which is 35%, and that is under the 40% allowed of lot coverage. The floor area ratio is 0.56, And setback calculations for additional second floor setback have been provided and do comply with the requirements. And a grading plan will be a condition of approval. And staff does recommend approval with the conditions that I noted earlier. Thank you.

Thank you very much. If the applicant wants to speak.

Good afternoon. Good evening. My name is Jose Merlo. I'm the architect for this particular project. My address is 13273 Southwest 152nd Street, Miami, Florida, 33186. First, I want to say that the information that was shared with us at the beginning was also to me very informative as regarding the guidelines and so on and so forth. It was a good explanation, it was a good explanation. And I also, I agree with your statement that you made because a lot of times architects, we design, based on the guidelines and you know we meet requirements and all of that but we are architects and a lot of people think that we are just artists and i think architecture is more than art it's a lot of other stuff but the main thing is art and a lot of times we design things that are beautiful i remember you know going to school and you can even see it now where you go and you have different architects and every architect would have a different design Some of them are better than others, but they're different designs. A lot of times, unfortunately, and this is not a real criticism, but sometimes when we come to the board and we are very happy with the design that we have, we are asked to modify it, tone it down, and sometimes the client says, hey, Why are they designing it? You're the architect and this is what we agreed on. So your comment was well taken, well taken. I just wanna say that, but it was very informative. I have no complaints. ANYWAY, WE HAVE COME TO THE BOARD BEFORE WITH THIS PARTICULAR HOUSE, AND WE MET THE BOARD THAT WAS IN FRONT OF ME AT THE PARTICULAR TIME. THEY'RE ALL DIFFERENT. YOU ARE A NEW BOARD, SO YOU HAVEN'T SEEN THIS. WE HAD A DESIGN THAT IN MY OPINION WAS VERY GOOD, VERY NICE, BUT THERE WERE COMMENTS, AND A LOT OF TIMES THE COMMENTS ARE VERY CONSTRUCTIVE, AND WE ACTUALLY MET WITH THE DIFFERENT BOARDS IN THEIR HOUSES OR IN THEIR OFFICES. and we try to comply, I'm not gonna say negotiate, but basically let them understand why we did what we did, and then they will tell us yes, and so on and so forth. So anyways, we came up with this particular design. This is an apple, I would imagine, so I don't know how to move this. But anyway, this is a two-story house, a brand new house. There's an existing one that we're gonna be demolishing. Again, like Scarlett said, we do meet all of the design guidelines regarding setbacks, heights, square footages, and so on and so forth. And this is what we came up with. This is basically a very simple contemporary modern house. Again, it meets all of the requirements. We have kind of like a little bit of a color board that we presented with the colors. It has two bedrooms on the bottom floor, three bedrooms on the second floor. We have living, dining, and kitchen on the ground floor. We have a garage, an entry. It meets the floor criteria, so the house has some steps up in the front, and do we have a pool in the back? Again, we meet all of the requirements, so I don't know if you have any particular questions that I may answer.

How many bedrooms, how many baths?

On the ground floor, we have two bedrooms, and then we have, let's see, one, two, three, four, five baths.

Five bedrooms and five bathrooms. Five bedrooms and five bathrooms? Yes. And how high are the ceilings? The ceilings are, I believe it's like 10 feet, right?

10 feet.

On both floors? On both floors, correct. Yes.

Yeah, we're trying to make it, you know, nowadays, you know, the modern.

Volume.

They have volume, correct. A lot better.

You have a nice design.

Thank you very much. Appreciate it.

What was the square footage you got?

I don't remember.

I see it 3,057. It's on the zoning requirements.

Here I see it. 3,038. Square foot. Yeah, 3,150. Okay.

Right.

I'm sorry I didn't get to see your original design.

Excuse me?

I said I'm sorry I didn't get to see your original design because I'm a design builder. So I'm very interested in architecture and design. And there's no reason for this to be turned down or denied. Makes me kind of sad that you refined it to accommodate the last planning zoning board, which I don't think I've heard a good story yet. I'm sorry for that.

Thank you. Thank you.

I don't think people should repeatedly have to come back for something that, you know, a homeowner was looking for and an architect designed for them.

Board members, I want to keep it on topic with this application.

That's what it is. I'm saying exactly that. I wish I had gotten to see his original design.

So do we have any questions or additional comments about this application?

For the architect, yes.

Okay.

No comments, no questions. No questions. I need somebody to move.

No, we need to open the public comment.

Yeah.

Please.

Sorry about that. We open now the floor to public comments. We close the floor. And now, if anybody wants to make a motion.

I'll make a motion to approve.

I second the motion. Madam Clerk.

Board Member Baumel. Board Member Levy?

Yep.

Board Member Stapel?

Yes.

Vice Chair Bravo?

Yes.

The motion carries.

Thank you very much, thank you very much for your presentation and for going through this.

Thank you very much, appreciate it.

Now we go to item number six, ordinances.

There are no ordinances for today's agenda.

Thank you. Number seven, next meeting date?

The next meeting day is scheduled for Thursday, July 30th at 6 p.m. Any objections to that date, July 30th?

I won't be here. You won't be here? Not to nose?

I will be here.

So let's see if there are others, you know, the other board members.

Yes, if we have quorum, it will continue.

Right. Thank you very much. Great. Discussion items. 8A, future discussion item tracker.

Yes, this was asked of us to kind of update and clean up. We have basically the intent is that we would have a kind of a running list of topics that would come before you as discussion items. This is what we currently have right now. don't have tentatively scheduled dates for the items to come before you and just wanted to run through it with you if you're still in agreement of what these items would be coming before you. Somebody brought up the previous board that they would like to talk about reducing the 30 foot maximum building height for single family homes. Another item would be in the business district, awnings to accompany commercial wall signage when the wall signs are submitted that the board had some interest in reviewing awnings in addition to signage. And additionally, there may be some changes to Florida statutes that we may need to address in the code.

Thank you very much. Do I need to open the floor for public comments? Yeah? Okay, so let's open the floor for public comments.

George Kooslis, 9225 Collins Avenue. There was one interesting item, well, they're all interesting, but one I want to key on, the awnings, right? So I think you made the right decision to look at and get rid of the signage. So the fact that signage is attached to awnings in this thing shouldn't be seen as one is sort of poisoning the other. Every year, every commission, whatever, this town goes through the throes of what the hell is wrong with Harding Avenue, right? And they kind of wave their hands and flail and all that. And really what should or should not happen to Harding Avenue should definitely be something that the planning board looks at more than anybody else, right? You guys know what you're looking at. Should earnings be in there? I don't know. But that's your decision. But I think what you should do as part of this discussion item in the future is to think about what oughta happen to use your valuable time here you get here on this Tuesday, and you can hopefully dispense with applicants relatively easily, and then use your time to figure out what should be done, what can be helpful, what's wrong, what's not, all that. So that's that. The other thing I wanted to bring up, which came up earlier, the whole idea of The thing last time, the understory glass vestibule, remember? Yeah. And a related thing would be 50% things. And I think rightfully it's not your purview, right? You shouldn't deny anything. But an applicant comes to the town and has the expectation that the right hand knows what the left hand is doing. So if Mr. McKenzie says or sees something he doesn't like, and being the architect, he will probably notice these things more. Just to raise the flag and say, you know, please check on this. Because what will happen is if nobody does and they spend all their money to prepare the construction documents and permit drawings and then go to the building department, the building department says, not so fast, you got a problem here. You're over 50%, you were close but you're over, you didn't realize you were close, you are, the thing you're building down below isn't correct, you gotta go back. No one wants to hear that. So if, Mr. McKenzie raises the issue. He shouldn't belabor the issue, and he shouldn't make it a condition or even a discussion or a condition of approval, but to just highlight it and say, you know, please look into this. I think that would be very valuable to every applicant. Thank you.

Thank you very much. We close the floor to the public. Anybody in the board wants to?

Yeah. I agree 100% that James McKenzie's pointing out the fact that it was an enclosure and was it allowable and then we had the law side jump in and then we had the building official jump in. I thought it was a good learning moment for all of us, whether we knew it or not. I thought those are valuable little pieces. And the other thing is, as far as the awnings, I think it's a very interesting subject, too. I agree. I do believe that if somebody wants to put an awning in, I think somehow, maybe, and I could be wrong, that there should be kind of cohesive decision making. on awnings up and down Harding on the east and west side of the streets, only because it's a visual thing when you're driving south on Harding. I mean, I don't think that it has to come to planning and zoning like the signage, but I think it's just a very interesting subject that maybe there should be some kind of cohesiveness when it's discussed.

Just for a little more background, they also, the previous board did mention that they wanted to start to look into some sort of design guidelines for the commercial area as well. Maybe that's not the proper word, but they wanted some sort of direction of how we can consider cohesiveness, I would say, to the storefronts there. So that was brought up as well.

I think if... I don't...

I personally think that Harding Avenue really needs to be revitalized. It's just, you know, we want a nice commercial district and I think, you know, Surfside needs to put some money.

George, don't you remember they were going to paint the streets or something?

It just doesn't look like a high-end area. You know, something more, you know, refined, more modern. Maybe. It looks like, you know, any other commercial district, and it should look better. I mean, you know, it's a resort town, and it really doesn't. look like a resort town with that commercial district.

Shall we add an item for discussion pertaining to what we want to see in the commercial district?

Where do you find?

I would like that, but I would like it to be in August because I won't be here in July.

I agree with that part, but.

Well, that gives us two months to think about.

I mean, is it really something that you study the most successful outdoor style streets or malls like Palm Beach, Hesworth Avenue? And I think it's beautiful. And when I think about it, I think they all have extensions of awnings, which provides a lot of cover, whether it's shade or from the elements. But I think it's really an interesting thing. thing to discuss and put on new business.

So if somebody can make the motion.

I move to place on the agenda.

In August.

For August, the discussion to revitalize the Harding Commercial District. Second.

All those in favor say aye.

Aye.

Any opposed? Motion carries.

Thank you very much. Just one comment, maybe the town manager can help me on this. Artificial turf, I see this in here. I know that it's in the commission agenda, right, for discussion, but I'm guessing if there's a still for discussion, they're going to make reference to the Florida Statute 125-572 on the FDEP ordinance? That's correct.

Thank you.

The state has preempted the town from doing anything. It's just going to be, and I don't believe it's in the July agenda. I know it says it on there, but I don't believe it's on there. If there is something that comes before the commission, it'll essentially be to codify that we will follow the state statute.

Excellent. Thank you. And also for the fencing standards, I went through what was discussed in that portion, right? the pros and cons, and I think basically there's a whole confusion in what is the front of the house, what is the side of the house in a corner lot, and that produces this situation. My personal opinion, and this is personal, I apologize for saying this, but I think if we change what is in the code, I think the code is clear for what's considered front and what's considered side, regardless what we want. If I have a corner house and I want the longest portion to be the front, that's my desire. I think the code is clear on what's the front and what's the side. And if we intervene in here, we're going to be creating more difficulties to interpret the code than the benefits that it's adding. That's my personal opinion. Anybody else wants to add something to this point?

What is, I mean, I understood what you said, but what is it, is it not in this?

This comes from a whole discussion from a previous board members about the height and what's considered from there for how high could it be versus the side and what's considered the side and we entertain no setbacks, et cetera, et cetera in there.

I mean if you tore down a house on a corner lot and you want the front of it on the long part, you can make that the front of your house.

According to code, the shortest portion is the front.

I knew that.

So that's something to consider for the commissioners because it's part of that commission agenda, upcoming commission agenda.

Sir, are we saying that we don't want to dictate that it only be on the short side, that it could be either side if you were to build a new house or to change the front entrance?

What I'm saying is if we change what is in the code now, I mean, if we change the language, right, that can create different interpretations of what's considered front versus side. and right now the interpretation is just one.

Alex?

Yes.

Is that, I mean, cause there are houses on the, on the long side.

So, so look, uh, I actually dealt with this in a different jurisdiction that had the same type of, uh, code language that the front of, excuse me, of a lot is the shortest, uh, the, the, the side with the shortest dimension on a street fronting dimension on the corner. That doesn't stop you from putting your front door on the side. It doesn't stop you from putting a driveway on the side. However, your setbacks are your front setback is going to be that front, that narrow side. Um, that said, I think if I heard correctly, what the vice chair is looking for is flexibility on whether if you choose to do a design like that, well, maybe the front fence should be the long side if you choose to put your front door there.

I agree with that.

Did I understand you correctly?

I do agree to some extent in there, right? Your design is your design, and the owner's design is the owner's design. What I'm saying here is if we change the code, right, if we change the code to determine in some situations this is the front, but other situations this is the front, that is going to create a series of problems.

Well, it's a practical issue with rectangular sites that have the narrow front because all of a sudden, if you think about you're going to put the front setback on the long side, that's usually a deeper setback. And then you have a rear setback, right? That's going to kill how much buildable footprint you're going to have. So that brings its other problems, the width. What I would think would be flexibility that if your front door is in one location, flexibility on height so that your fence height can look like the front there even though you are meeting the setbacks the way the lot is oriented by code. That's a suggestion that can be made, I think. But I'm not sure if you're trying to get at something else. And if you move it, the other jurisdictions where perhaps the planner makes the determination on a case-by-case basis which is going to be the front and which is going to be the principal front, or a secondary front, sometimes that can change. And in some of those cases, I've also seen that the towns or the setback regulations treat two fronts and then two sides so that you don't have to have a deep rear setback so that you can actually build something useful on those lots if you were to have the principal front as that long side. That's a significant departure, and I'm not saying that you guys don't have the purview to discuss it and to suggest that to the code, if that is what this board thinks is a good idea. That is for you all to debate amongst yourselves and come up with a consensus on what you would recommend or not recommend to the town council.

Didn't we have that we, when we were last on the board, that fences were different on corner lots and they had to be treated?

We have had this conversation so many times. That's why I don't understand why it's again.

On there?

Yeah. And my apologies, did you finish? Sorry, sorry, sorry. Because George is saying to talk to.

I'm just referring to you because we already had these conversations.

We have had this conversation so many times, so many times. And it was brought again and it's going to be in front of the commissioners again.

I think maybe our direction, I mean we'll hear what George has to say, but I think our direction has to be just like a waterfront lot is treated independently, that a corner lot has to be treated independently as well. Which is what we said in the last. Yes, that's what we said last.

Exactly.

Two years.

George, I'm sorry. Oh, George. I opened the floor to the public.

No problem. George Kusilas, 9225 Collins Avenue. I think you let sleeping dogs lie in this case. As the attorney pointed out right now, The short side is the front. Corner lots are 55 feet wide and surf side. If you take off 20 and 20, what are you left with? Almost nothing, right? And you could do what he said where, okay, we will adjust the rear setback to be something less than so it looks more like a side setback, but then you're just... Opening up the code for no reason to make a change when what the status quo is is Excellent and you still have the ability to put your front door on the wrong side. So I would just Stay away from that.

Yeah Anybody else wants to add anything here Thank you very much Let's go to 8B, 8B, Plastic Fisherman Park Benches for the Beach.

Good evening, Mario Diaz, Acting Town Manager for the record. Um, recently the town commission had passed a, um, ordinance, which requires the town to come before you for advice on major design features, which also include from park benches to street signs, to street lights and anything in between inclusive of buildings that might be designed. The commission took a conversation with regards to adding these plastic fishermen workshop benches that they do. They get recycled plastic and they turn it into features that are then also installed. I apologize that it's not part of your backup. it slipped my mind and I was like, wait, we need to bring this to you all. So, um, I do apologize, but essentially they have a lot of different features of the type of park benches. Um, it was determined that the town's willing to invest into five, um, park benches to put maybe along the hard pack. Um, and so these are just based off of their, um, Uh, their website, the various different, um, they can be a 1 cedar 2 cedars. Different colors I think this is where the town commission was kind of leaning towards, um, with having some type of divider on the seat side on the top to ensure that no 1 is using it as a bed, um, off hours essentially. But this one I think is the one that they were kind of leaning towards, but there's several different options. So the question before you all tonight, is there any one in particular that you all would like to recommend back to the Commission to say this one's pretty, move on?

Thank you very much. Sorry, do I need to open the floor to the public? Yes. Okay. Let's open the floor to the public. Any comments, any questions? No, okay. Thank you very much. We close the floor. Board members?

Is it hot when it gets hot? I mean, do these exist in other places?

Yes, they do exist.

Like in South Florida?

Yes. Can we go somewhere to see that, or I mean?

Where? I'm not going.

What is the price on these? Because I saw a price $1,500.

Yeah, they can range. It all depends on the size that you use, whether it's a one-seater, two-seater, four-seater, or anything like that. And they range from under $1,000 to like $2,200.

I do love the fact that we are talking sustainability here, right, and recycling. Right. I do. I do. But I still would love to see, like, in use.

Yeah, can we get one and throw it outside?

Yeah, do you have any pictures of it, where it might be placed right now, somewhere on a beach, on a sidewalk?

It would be along the hardback.

Okay. But do you have any pictures of where it exists right now?

I do not. No.

I'm just saying, because it's like, is it under a covered tree?

I don't know if they're comfortable. Without having one, I don't think they're attractive. And they don't look comfortable to me. And I think that if we have something, it should be something that's quality and is comfortable to sit on.

Would you like for me to invite the plastic fisherman to come at your next meeting and he can give you the presentation and answer your questions? He was here at the commission meeting until about 12 o'clock when we got to the item.

What I would like is to see one and see how they... they look how they work in the real environment, right? We're going to have them exposed to the sunlight, and we're going to have them... Where?

Yeah, it was in the middle of the beach. So we have to go to resume? I think it was more of a fashion...

Look, it's a sustainability. It doesn't really matter if we like it or not. The plastic fisherman does a really, he's got a significant cause that is, you know, plastic items come to our homes and our beaches. It's not because surfsidians are throwing it in the water. It just comes to us. But I think it's a good use of a, repurposed item, but I certainly would have liked to have seen pictures of where they're placed already. That's all.

My apologies. That is our fault. Would the board be okay with tabling and just bringing it back so I can get you the correct information? Sure. or if you'd like to just make the motion.

Motion to discuss this item again in August with a bit more information.

To defer.

To defer. Deferred.

Somebody to second the motion?

I just think it sounds like the commission wants this. It's a recycled item by one of our own community residents. So it's a very interesting and it's a repurposed item. So I mean.

Do you want to second the motion?

No.

I really don't like that.

I mean, I just think if they want to.

I think that we could do, have something better on the beach, something, you know, How much does this item cost?

1,500. Between 1,000 and 22 or 20.

It's overpriced.

Depending on the size and the colors.

It's overpriced.

So I guess the motion dies?

If not, one second, the motion dies.

Okay, so motion to defer dies. Okay.

I cannot. What do you think? I would give it the opportunity to. The Vice Chair can second. I can second? Okay, well, in that case, sorry. In that case, I will second the motion. I think we've.

Would Mr. Levy resit the motion so he had died previously?

Oh, you have to make the motion again.

Make a motion to defer this item to the next meeting. Next one. In August, if we will? In August. Or can it just be the next one? It'll be the next one in July.

In July, okay. And I'll second the motion.

Board Member Baumel?

It's fine. Yes. Will you bring maybe pictures, whether I'm here or not? I mean, if you show it out.

Some samples.

I'll email the board. Are they all made? Or do they have to be ordered to make them? They're ordered to make them.

Are there any other options besides that?

I mean, we just, the request from the commissioner was to, to take a look at five plastic fishermen benches, but no, no other type of seating. On this specific item, it's this one. Your next discussion item is the benches that are part of a contract that I need to ask for yours apparently. But there is, and I think that's one of the topics that were somewhat loosely talked about with the PASA Board and Commission is having some type of branding study that not only talks about logos and colors, but also talks about what is a standard for a bench throughout the town. Because they're just, it's whatever somebody likes when they're ordering it, right? And the idea of making sure that staff comes to you all for these designs is to make sure that we start getting something consistent. But for this item, Our vice mayor attended an event with the plastic fishermen, saw that this was a great reusable and wanted to bring several of these into the town. So from a design standpoint, because there's like five or seven of them, we wanted to make sure that we got the board's opinion.

Is each one like a piece of art or is it just they have five styles and they can reproduce however many you want for each one?

I think they can reproduce, for the most part, what they kind of look like. So if we like the one that's being showed now, the CB Breeze Bench, it would look, although there might be some slight deviations, it won't be the exact because it's all recycled plastic. Let's do something.

We do have a motion right now, so we need to vote.

Yes, I have to finish color roll.

Right.

Okay, sorry. Thank you. Board Member Levy?

Yes.

Member Sapel?

No.

Vice Chair Bravo? Yes.

The motion carries.

Let's be clear on what we want next time, right? We want to see variations, we want to sample.

Sample, pictures, and locations.

Yeah, I think that the pictures of it out there, but does he just reproduce the same exact one? Like he could reproduce 10 of those?

10 of these styles, yes. There will be slight deviations because it's all melted plastic, hard plastics that go in, but the same stuff.

So it's essentially a piece of art with a recycled material. I mean, for that reason alone, I am, okay.

We've deferred it.

Yeah, bingo.

Thank you very much.

Sorry.

Move to item eight, C, concrete benches at dune entrances.

So, Chairman, thank you again. Again, for the record, Mario Diaz. Am I on the right? No, this is not. I apologize, I think I closed it out too soon. One second. Yeah, I'm trying to get out of that. Do you know where I'm supposed to be?

I'm sorry.

So as I try to bring up the we still have quorum. Yes as as I try to bring it up and I apologize for closing the dunes project that is going out was one that was already designed and scoped and everything was ready to go by the time we got here. Um, or I got here, uh, we had to cancel the procurement because some square footage along the dunes was not included, which was the South side. Uh, we re, included that and we re, procured part of that is there are sections throughout the dune project, which is the top area, not the hard pack and not the beach. It's the, it's the top walk path that we have. Okay. Um, and so part of that project requires, um, for them to install, uh, benches that will have an additional carve out outside of the path. Um, so the benches that are part of the contract are here, it's this somewhat circle concrete. Um, and the contractor is asking what color, what do you guys want to do? Um, So the question to you all, these are the options that we have. We have the acid wash, we have this ground polished, and we have this weathered stone, and then each one of those has similar colors for that throughout the walk path. I'll just smile and ask the will of the board.

That's the presentation. Thank you, I appreciate it.

I appreciate your presentation. The project should have, you know, should have just been the walking path, but there's a seating area.

In the walking path?

In the walking path.

It's very interesting concept for a walking path.

Yeah, we ended up having to widen it a little bit so that in certain areas we can cut out and then install this. But for the walking path, it's interesting to have seating areas.

Thank you. So I'll open the comments to the public.

George Kouselis, 9225 Collins Avenue. This shows you exactly why the ordinance was correctly changed to include the Planning and Zoning Board to have design review over even town projects. This is horrible, and I'll tell you why. One of the nicest things about our beach is its nature, right? The seagrasses, the sea grapes, the crossovers. When the sea grapes are thriving, you tend to go through this tunnel of greenery that's overhead and you get to the beach. The only man-made thing in the dune is the wood posts and the rope. Big deal. That tends to... fade out right that's it these benches were creating every crossover and the walking path into an intersection for benches that what are they there for it it's like some urban planner was thinking that this must be a street and it needs street furniture to complete the intersection if i were you guys i would just kill these benches I don't know how else to put it. I mean, if you have any other questions you have of me as to why this is such a bad idea, I'm happy to stand up here, but I'd rather not take up your time. I've said it. Thank you.

Thank you very much. Any more comments from the public? If not, I'm closing, and I leave it to the board.

Are they obligated to this already? Just say no.

It is part of their contract.

Can that money go to the plastic fishermen?

Doesn't quite work that way, unfortunately.

They're terrible. There shouldn't be benches on the hard path. It's for walking, not sitting. And you want to put these plastic benches not on the path, but off the path. Am I understanding this correctly or am I wrong?

I understand the same. Okay.

I think you're ugly.

And again, walking by.

It's an opinion.

What I'd like to at least recommend is maybe have the board recommend staff go back and see if we can negotiate a credit to the contract to not install these. I would need to see if that might be an option. If it's not an option, I'd at least like a backup plan of if there's no way to get out and you have to install this, at least do this.

Just to clarify from a construction point of view, right, this would be a submittal. They are under contract, they are supposed to perform, so they're submitting this information for approval.

Yeah, they're asking which one do I have to build so that I can install it and finish this project.

By the way, how much were these?

How much? No. I don't know the line item for this. The overall project, I think, was a $3.5 million project.

What?

What? For the total project. Ah, the total project.

With the hardscape, but just these benches.

I don't know the individual line either.

Yeah, I think that there's no back to them. They don't look comfortable. You can sit there for about 30 seconds before you don't want to sit there. It's just an eyesore.

How many of these were ordered? How about that?

I believe there's about...

What?

But they haven't been ordered.

64. Eight streets and four at each intersection, so maybe seven times four.

Okay, that's 28. I think, but again, my apologies. If this is submittal, that means that they haven't bought the product, correct? Meaning that we can negotiate, you just said it, we can negotiate not having them.

I'm hearing the board requesting that and I would go back and do try that. My only request is worst case scenario and that's not possible. What direction do I kind of move it? Make a motion.

No, I'm gonna make a motion or a recommendation to not do this at all.

I think I understand, and that's fine, and that recommendation can be to see if the town manager can negotiate that they take that line item off the project. However, in the event that they can't, so that we don't have to see these benches again here, what would the recommendation be? If he cannot... GET THEM OUT OF THE CONTRACT AT GET THEM OUT OF THE CONTRACT AT THIS POINT.

THIS POINT.

WHAT IS THE COLOR? WHAT IS THE COLOR? WHAT IS THE COLOR? WHAT IS THE RECOMMENDATION OF THIS WHAT IS THE RECOMMENDATION OF THIS WHAT IS THE RECOMMENDATION OF THIS BOARD? BOARD? BOARD? AT THIS POINT IF IT HAD TO AT THIS POINT IF IT HAD TO AT THIS POINT IF IT HAD TO HAPPEN. HAPPEN.

HAPPEN. THAT IS WHAT THE TOWN MANAGER IS THAT IS WHAT THE TOWN MANAGER IS THAT IS WHAT THE TOWN MANAGER IS ASKING FOR.

ASKING FOR. ASKING FOR.

I WOULD RECOMMEND A LIGHT I WOULD RECOMMEND A LIGHT I WOULD RECOMMEND A LIGHT COLOR, WHITE. COLOR, WHITE. COLOR, WHITE It should have some sort of a seat back or something. It's just, it's just.

Is this what was specified or they're just bringing it?

No, this was specified in the contract. So when they ask for the color.

Here's the question. That's the only item that needs input, the color. Not the form, not the shape, not the material.

Well, there's three options of the type of material, right? Whether it's stone, that premium ground, or the acid wash, and then the various colors. So we can pick from that.

Okay. So is the name of the company Wasa Tile that you're purchasing from?

That is where the contractor would be purchasing it from.

Okay. Do they have other products?

I believe this is what was bid as part of their contract.

Is it possible to look in and see if they have other products other than benches?

You can recommend that as well as... ASKING FOR THE NEGOTIATION FOR A CREDIT. YOU COULD ASK THE TOWN MANAGER TO SEE IF THERE ARE OTHER DESIGN OPTIONS AVAILABLE. HOWEVER, UNFORTUNATELY, I'M SO NEW HERE THAT I'M NOT SURE HOW BAKED ALL OF THIS ALREADY IS AND WHETHER OR NOT THESE SHAPES WERE ALREADY APPROVED BY THE COUNCIL, THE COMMISSION, OR

The commissioner approved the contract. Prior design was before me. I came in during the procurement phase, so.

Okay, so if you're able to negotiate the contract and get a credit and to inquire about other potential products that they might have that would be usable for Surfside and placed at different locations other than the hard path, that would be the recommendation that I would like to see.

That would be one recommendation, and the only other thing would be if he can't, He needs the direction from this board that if they are going to go in, what color and what finish on the stone?

From a maintenance perspective, I would probably say the acid wash and a light color to that is the easiest maintenance because then all you're doing is essentially taking the... the water pressure to clean out any of the dirt or anything that comes in. When you start putting color to any type of concrete, it starts to fade, like the sidewalks that aren't being maintained.

Yeah, but you're talking about using products that are harmful to the very plants that we just discussed along the hard path.

The, no. I'm sorry, what products?

Products? Cleaning products?

No, power wash. It's just the pressure. No, I know what a power wash is. It's just the water pressure.

You get somebody and they have a little party and they stain it with wine. A pressure cleaner is not going to put wine out.

It will. It will. On concrete, the pressure, yeah, it's like, yeah, our machine's like 1,000 PSI, so it basically takes it off. That's why when there's no color to it, it's a lot easier to maintain with that type of machinery to take it off.

I would recommend the A30 Star, the brightest color possible.

Okay.

Yeah, I don't think the white doesn't look white. It looks like a tan. Sand.

Yeah.

We do have three variations, right? The weatherstone, the premium ground polished, and the acid wash. Yeah. And Mr. Supell, you're recommending the acid wash? The acid wash, A30 store. Board members? Same color, do you wanna see other colors?

I really wish I could've brought you this during the design phase and this could've been a conversation there. I'm just trying to find the solutions here.

Yeah, we would've nixed it.

So maybe the motion would be to negotiate not installing, not bringing and installing this, right? But if that negotiation is unsuccessful, then we can proceed with the acid wash, 830 star, in other location. That's the motion that you're making?

Oh yes, that is the motion, exactly.

Okay.

The other location's part of the negotiation. You know that? Exactly. Right. Okay.

So is that the motion that Mrs. Bommel is making? That is my motion. I'll second the motion.

All those in favor say aye.

Aye.

Any opposed? Motion carries.

Thank you. And now we go to number nine, new business. Yes.

So back to where I left off about an hour ago. or two hours ago. I believe that we have a very good planning department or building department. It's very easy to apply for permits online. We have a very good staff. The only issue is after when we're in the process of applying for the permits, we have to go for review for structural and also for zoning review. And those are not done in-house. Those are through a third party. And my understanding is that that process is a long, long process. And something as simple as a fence can take 30 days or more. And then if you want to change the design or change something in the plans, then you have to go back in front of the, you know, and resubmit. And there's no email to get guidance from the Structural and Zoning Review Committee. BOARDS THAT HANDLES THAT. MY RECOMMENDATION TO THE COMMISSION WOULD BE THAT WE HIRE THOSE PEOPLE THAT ARE HANDLING THOSE REVIEWS AND bring them here to the city so that they're available to expedite that so that we can reduce the time to obtain the necessary permits to complete the bills because it should be YOU KNOW, A STREAMLINED PROCESS, IT SHOULD NOT BE, THERE SHOULDN'T BE UNNECESSARY DELAYS. AND THERE SHOULD BE SOMEBODY ON HAND TO RESPOND HERE IN THE CITY. I MEAN, YOU KNOW, WE HANDLE ENOUGH, BUILDING ENOUGH, AND THERE'S ENOUGH BUILDING AND ZONING THAT WE ACTUALLY NEED SOMEBODY HERE TO DEAL WITH THAT. make it easier to obtain the necessary permits and there shouldn't be those kind of delays for 30 days or longer for zoning or structural permits. I would make a motion to make the recommendation that the commission consider zoning and structural review and that that be conducted here at the town of Surfside.

So you're saying that the commission should be considering in-house for a structural engineer?

Structural engineer.

But there was another part of your conversation.

And also for the zoning review, because I think that's also outsourced.

Yeah, the town planner should be in-house is a recommendation and a full-time structural in-house. And I think you also said something which led me to a question for driveway. If someone redoes their driveway, they don't have to come to planning and zoning.

There are some exemptions in the code for certain scopes of work that do not need to come to the Planning and Zoning Board.

Okay, so I think that that same person that you're speaking of was saying they had to wait when they wanted to change their driveway and they were told they had to come back to Planning and Zoning. When I don't, I believe that the Town Planner is responsible for and the building director for the driveway.

If we can hear, there was just a couple things that I just wanted to address and I agree. I always like having our directors in-house and supplementing where we need to with a consultant if the need is there. This afternoon we're extending a offer to a structural engineer to make them as a full-time position and that's also a budget decision. Uh, for next year to, um, extend full time positions to other areas of expertise for inspections and plan reviews and stuff. So that's already the direction that staff is moving towards with regard to the planner. Um, I wish it was easy just to find them everywhere. on the side of the corner it's it's not um but one thing that we started doing um and we started moving forward is moving everything online the problem with an email is everybody was emailing random people and then saying i haven't heard anything well if someone was on vacation they haven't heard anything for a week well yeah because you didn't get it to the right person or didn't get to So we moved all of that, including planning and zoning, to the online permitting aspect so that there's a workflow. The town does have at least one person here eight hours a day, five days a week. We often have up to three. Two of the ladies are here in addition to one other person, and I think there's at least one or two other people who work remotely as well. 10 total. So we do have a lot of people who review. Oftentimes, especially what I've found lately has been when someone's like, I haven't heard anything back. Did you go online and look at the comments? Because they're going to respond to your application when you do that. No, my contractor said that there's no comments. We put comments in there three weeks ago and no one's responded. Oh, let me look. Okay, and so we're trying to minimize having issues that I've had to deal with where I called, somebody else sent an email, some other day somebody walked in and there's five different points of contacts with multiple people instead of having something streamlined. So we've now put into the system where it's more streamlined to make it a lot easier and that people get that response and then there's an audit trail so that I can hold our team accountable and tell them you took three weeks or you took a month to respond and they don't like when I start calling them up when something like that's happened. So they're staying on top of that. So we are taking mitigating steps to ensure that that doesn't happen anymore. But I do agree that we do need an in-house full-time planner to manage the entire process and make sure that we have these regularly and then we can supplement with whatever is needed. And to the other point, we are extending an offer now for the full-time structure.

How many applications will receive an average each week?

I know that when we were looking at the building department for fiscal year 25, they had processed about 3,000, no, yeah, about 3,000 permits. Now, not every one goes to planning and zoning. Most of them do. because they have to look at lot coverage, they have to make sure even if you're doing a driveway that you still meet the 50% coverage or less, things like that. Not everything has to come to you all, but they do go through and they work together with the building department And just recently, over the past six months, when Corradino kind of took over and our building official, Manny, started kind of reorganizing how this whole workflow, planning and zoning is now even doing field inspections, which was not being done prior to them coming in.

Well, at some point, even the police department was doing some inspections, which I really don't understand. But, you know, this is an interesting town. Karen, do you have another question? Because Mr. Kosaras wants to talk to, oh, sorry.

George, you first.

George Kouselis, 9225 Collins Avenue. I have to say, I've pushed through about not quite a half dozen projects through Corradino. And I have to tell you, it's never been an issue. Scarlett has been fairly rapid in issuing a checklist that will say, you've given us this, this, and this, you're still missing this, right? That gets back to you very quickly. You can always get ahold of Scarlett on the phone and say, what do you need here? How much time do you have before I really have to get you whatever? Can I update, you know? I've never seen a problem with having you know, them being not in-house. That's not a bottleneck in the process. And I just wanna make, and this is coming from somebody that has put probably about four or five projects through under their watch. So that's not an issue.

The people that I've spoken to have said that recently, for a fence permit, it's taken more than 30 days. And then if they wanted to change something in the fence, The zoning review and the structural reviews have been taking a long time.

It should not take that long. If you can share with me the address after the meeting and we can look in and we can do an audit of exactly what's happened and see what were the pressure points there, we'll be glad to. I'm not by any means saying that either Manny's team or Scarlett's team are perfect. We're human beings at the end of the day. And sometimes there's a lot of work and something might slip through the cracks. So, you know, if that's the case, we'll take that on the chin and we'll apologize and make sure we fast track that. We are trying to ensure systematically that that doesn't happen. But we can definitely take a look with the exact application, see exactly what happened, and then be able to respond as well.

Mrs. Pomela, you wanted to add something?

I think that the building official should be preparing himself for more active permitting to be happening. Just with my real estate and development background, I think it's... it's becoming much more active than it might have been over the past two years. I myself hear a lot of the complaints even before I got here. Um, you are saying you may have a new structural engineer employed full in house full time and that there is then process other

Electrical plumbing.

MEPs and all those. And what about inspectors as well? Are you looking for additional ones as well? And here he comes. He's going to answer that. But I just think you should anticipate a tremendous uptick in applications.

Hi, Manny Salazar, building official. That's been done. The budget's going forward. We've operated for many years with part-time, with the same employees that we have part-time. So I have increased all their hours. So we're going to have services every day. And we are extending a contract or employment to a structural engineer. They are harder to come by right now than anybody else. Miami-Dade County also has added restrictions that the rest of the state doesn't have, which puts more pressure on the municipalities. But to your question, yes, that's been considered, that's in the budget, and that's gonna be coming up on the budget discussion. Also and additional not the additional inspectors additional hours so they're going to be had we're going to have services 5 days a week they're going to be here every day they're presently only here 3 days.

And what I hear it is that the solution remains on. adding man hours, right?

Or, you know, adding the hours. We have the staff that they've just been part time because the construction here has normally been in waves. Now in the past, uh, a couple of building officials before me when I used to work here back in that time when there were waves and we were at the top of a wave, the inspectors came and provided services every day. They were compensated, uh, such for that work. And then when the wave hit the bottom again, they went back to part time.

I have a question, because I've never put a permit in this town. I've done it in other portions, in Doral, in Fort Lauderdale, in the City of Miami, et cetera, et cetera, in Miami-Dade County, not here, not in Southside. Do we have permit by affidavit? Private providers. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. No, but not, I mean, that we can.

Yeah, private providers.

Yeah, private providers. That we can go to them. Well, we, okay. For threshold, but not for the entire, for the whole?

Private providers, we do not do the private providers. Private providers are handled between the owners or the contractors, the representatives, and the private provider.

But do we allow that? Do we allow private providers?

So that could be a solution that we tell? State statute requires that we do.

Okay, so that's a solution that we can... You know, tell the clients, tell the owners.

To be 100% honest, what I would like, we have private providers a lot now because that basically it was the previous building official did not want to add staff or to add hours to staff. So it was very easy. They encouraged the private providers. So the private providers came and did the projects. I am the other way around. I offer services. So I am going to increase our staff. I offer services. The owner is free as per state statute to go private provider, but I can tell you that the town will always do the work more efficiently and cheaper than the private provider.

That's true, but I started using threshold engineers with the pandemic. It wasn't because of a prior building official. It was because what was going on with the pandemic and having the town shut down, I didn't have a choice.

And one last thing, something that we're looking at and I'm working with the mayor and a couple of the commissioners is how do we start engaging AI into the process? And so some companies are starting to go into how that works with code building applications. I'm not at a point, and neither is our building official, that we're comfortable with just letting it run loose. We haven't seen one fully activated in a local municipality that way, but I am okay and we are exploring how we can have AI help guide the applicants through the application process, right? Where then that's gonna also help minimize, hopefully, some of the user errors when someone's trying to do something that they've never done before into that. So we're trying to see how we can further the efficiency to cut down the overall time so that once our reviewers go in, we know that, yes, they have a complete application. Because oftentimes, both of my departments their applications aren't complete, and that drags the process into a longer time.

And to that point, somebody, while I was, and I apologize, I was on vacation, so I didn't pay much attention to this comment, but somebody told me that for AI purposes, pertaining to the review process, there's the possibility of getting some monies from the state or something like that. So maybe there's something that we can find out, I don't know.