Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

Conference will now be recorded.

Gave me five or whatever way they gonna get it. Whatever it takes. Yeah, this this remember this is a old system. It's got the Wi-Fi. I got signal here. That's all you need.

Thanks for everyone coming in. Uh we're gonna get this meeting started. So, uh, we'll call the meeting to order and we'll start with invocation led by Scott. Thank you, Father, for the opportunity to serve you and serve Surfside Beach, South Carolina. Lord, I pray that we as we conduct this meeting that we would uh display fruits of your spirit which are love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. Father, we thank you for uh for leading this nation. And we pray as we continue doing what we do, we would remember that uh under your flag, it was formed under your bodily principles. And let's recite the pledge of allegiance.

Amen. I aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Thank you, Scott. So, next item will be agenda approval. Get a motion to approve the day. All right. I got Mary Allen motion to approve today's agenda. Do I have a second? Alex has seconded. Any discussion on it? Everyone in agreement say I. I. Anyone opposed? Say nay.

All right. Agenda has been approved for the uh next item will be minutes approval. Then that' be make a motion for approving the minutes from September 2nd's meeting which also there's an exhibit to it which include the public project review. from the PD kids coastal coalition coalition findings.

I move we approve the minutes of September 2nd, 2025 as indicated on the agenda. All right. Got a motion to approve the minutes. Is that include the public project review letters? Do I have a second? Second. All right. M Mary Ellen motion to approve. Alex seconded. Uh any discussion on them.

All right. With no discussion, uh everyone in agreeing say I. I. Anyone opposed say nay. All right. Minutes and the letter uh of findings will be. Um before we move on uh director uh brother um just a question with uh the public review uh of our findings uh of course it's a statutoary required requirement that we find submit an official letter to town council explaining those findings. Should these not be added to town council's agenda or their approval process or does it typically follow on theirs? the the most appropriate way to do it is if you look at your package this evening, you'll see there's resolutions that go from the planning commission to the the council. as part of those um as part of those going to the council, there should be there should be findings in the resolution that you know this is consistent with state law, but you know, there's probably four or five consistent findings that you want to make. Um I don't think that's been the the practice in the past. Uh, but it's something that I've always been been taught that you do is that whenever the planning commission makes a motion to move something that has to go to council, you send that package with a resolution on top that says you met you fi you made findings and now you recommend to the council that they take it up. It's not a letter to the council. It's a it's a it's a PC resolution that goes to council.

And is that letter generated from our side or the staff side? the staff side probably should probably prepare it for you. And I think after a while, you'll probably all get comfortable enough to actually suggest things to the to the resolution that I may not, you know, in other words, what I'll do most of the time is I'll put the standard resolution language in there. But if you feel there's something, you know, you'll see the resolution in your packet. I would suggest that you read that resolution and if there's something in the resolution that you either want to change or you want to add a lot of times planning commissioners want to add language to that reg that resolution that's the time to do it.

Yeah. So you're typically saying that in the future with public projects you're going to provide us a resolution and as we approve that we would also review that resolution that if we wanted to add findings or whatever we would also do at the same time. Correct. Perfect. Thank you so much. You're welcome. All right. Any other? Um, so we've already approved those. Number six, public comments on agenda items. Any public comments for tonight? All right, we'll move on to director's report. Uh, super period report. Director Bernier.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, couple of things that I wanted to bring up. First of all, that we, as you probably know, we keep a monthly comparison report of how we're doing on reports, how we're doing on permits, how our permit fees are doing, number of inspections, and number of tree inspections. And I just want to give you, I'll call it the highlights here. I won't run you through the whole thing. It'll put everybody to sleep in no time. Um this year 2025 we are on track to uh approve 135 uh permits. That is the lowest number we've had in the last 5 years which is a little bit surprising. However, um the permit fees and it's probably because we've increased fees. uh our fees are projected to be in the neighborhood of $316,000 which is the highest amount we've had in the past 5 years. So we are obviously changing charging more for our permit fees because while we're lagging behind in number of permits we're going to be about $15,000 ahead of the highest year we've had in the last five years which was 2022. uh number of inspections uh are running about average uh for the past five years. I wouldn't say there's any surprises in the number of inspections. And I would tell you that the number of tree inspections is going to be a little lower probably than the last three or four years, but not by a lot. It's going to be right about the same. One of the things I wanted to um bring to the commission's attention is uh one of the my goals that I have uh for the department is and I've spoken to you about this before but I have more information is that I want to have an online permitting portal uh that will

permit somebody literally sitting at home who has plans or has drawings or has electronic digital files of PDFs of those drawings. It'll allow the the applicant to be able to fill out a zoning permit, submit those drawings, um submit and pay for the fee online and also receive approval online. So, there would be literally a file that we would send back to them that they would print that would be literally a zoning permit. It would, you know, be very official looking with a stamp on it and all that. And that is just one part of the online permitting portal. That would be for zoning permits. I'd also have want to have one for tree permits. Finally, I'd want to have one for enforcement. U a lot of times people in the community are reluctant uh to call in a an enforcement issue on their block next to their next door to a neighbor. They don't want their name associated with it. they want a an ambiguous way to sort of get their name and get the permit out there. So, I would also I'm also looking at having an enforcement portal so that people can feel free to drop us a note if they see something happening in the community, which would be very very helpful. I have now interviewed uh three three companies and have done online what I'd call demonstrations of their uh of their software programs. and I'm leaning toward one right now. Um, and and thankfully it's not the most expensive one, which is another one that I saw and and it was if I'm confused by the online portal, what do you think that's going to happen to our citizens? So, I I kind of pushed out of those side. I said, "Well, no, we're probably not going to use that one. I want to use one that's simple, easy to use, easy to read, and

easy to navigate." And uh, I'm making some progress on that. And probably by our next meeting, I should probably have an idea for you on the name of the company, what they will do. And what my proposal is is to put it into next year's budget. Um, but implement it in January if possible. As you know, um, I have a vacancy on staff for a code enforcement officer. I've told the dire I told the administrator that I don't feel we need to fill that position because we've got a top-notch code enforcement officer right now. We just just started with us. His name is Nicholas. Uh you'll all get to meet him. Uh he is code enforcement people, you know, have to be really conversant and really be able to transmit um ideas and thoughts in a a very pleasant way. And when I interviewed this gentleman, I I must tell you that I wasn't even through the interview and I went, "Oh my god, I've got the right person sitting in front of me right now." Um, so he we literally made him an offer and within two weeks he packed up his house in Pennsylvania. David told his brother to move into the house. He's moved down here with his family and he's he's good to go. And he's already been out in the field and I'm already getting great reports from people who have dealt with him who call me and go, "Yeah, he really understands what I mean, what I'm talking about." So, super pleased um to do that. Um, but like I said, I don't think and I I guess I'll have the ability to change my mind if I if if things change, but I will tell you between Brad and Nick, I believe we have the code enforcement uh game saddled up pretty good. We're in really good shape right now. So, uh, and other than that, um, the last thing I

wanted to bring up was I've been working on the tree preservation ordinance. And, uh, that's a slower process for me. I'm going through that little line by line, working with the, um, storm water committee. We've met with the storm water committee once already. Um, I've been transmitting some of my thoughts since that meeting to the chairman, the chairperson of that committee and we're sharing some ideas and I think u by the next meeting I'll have a early draft for you all to look at and make some comments on before we uh before we saddle up hold public hearing on it. Then ultimately send it to council. So, I'm I'm hopeful uh that by our next meeting, I'll have the landscape ordinance ready for you and by our next meeting um we'll be able to hold a public hearing perhaps on the overlay uh the overlay the design overlay district. That concludes my staff report and would be glad to answer any questions that any of you had about the report.

Any questions? Yeah, just got I don't even think this is on. Yeah, it is. It is. It is. Yeah. Okay. Uh, one comment, one question. The the online payment through the portal. You're probably aware, but I didn't want to not say it that the administrator has got a body of work around online payments for merchandise, peer plaques, and the memorial wall. Yes, that's right. Right. So, it may make sense to consolidate credit card processing vendors for with the portal too. So, just put that on.

Yeah, we the administrator and I have had that conversation. The uh the online portal that we have for payments is working very well. So, my plan is to ask whoever I select to do the uh the online portal to work with us to to work that as part of the portal. I don't want to have two portals for payment. That'll just confuse everybody.

The the question is uh the permits being down, my sense would be that as I drive around town looks like the amount of work going on at various houses, whatnot has not decreased. So my hypothesis would be that less people are actually bothering getting a permit and just doing work. Is that off base? Is that kind of where your head goes when you see that permits are down? No, that's not where my head goes. Okay. My head goes is that

part what you're saying is partially correct. As you know, we we didn't have a a person in this chair for a couple of months. Um it was during the summer during what I would call building months. So, I suspect some illegal building went on. Um but I believe that the the reason it's down uh is simply because we are slowly but suridly filling up all of the remaining single family parcels that we have. Um if I look at the zoning map and it's right on my wall, I look at how many vacant lots we have. We don't have as many vacant lots as we had 5 years ago. So I I I think naturally the number is going to begin to dwindle and continue to dwindle. When I said that the permit number is up, that suggests to me that more of the per while we're down in permits, we're getting the larger permits. we're getting full full single family houses full you know what I would call full impact full full impact fee from that whereas I would suspect in previous years we had smaller permits for like decks small additions putting a driveway in those sorts of things so the uh the numbers you know when you look at the numbers it's a you're right it's a little confusing how can we be down when it seems like there's so much activity out there Um, but that's not borne out in the numbers. The numbers say that, you know, we're doing more and we're doing bigger. That's that's the conclusion I come to.

Okay. Thank you. Yep. Any other questions?

I have a few. So, um, of course, periodically we're supposed to get a report out on any minor subdivisions, major subdivisions or public projects for the previous period. Is any of that taken place? There has been and and uh apologies to the commission. I haven't been tracking those um but where I should be because I didn't know I was reporting out. Since the last meeting, I believe I've approved three lot splits um in the in the area and certainly nothing like a four or five lot subdivision uh which would be just below the threshold of where I would bring it forward to you. Um, so I I did while I didn't keep track of the names and the TMS numbers and all that, I can tell you that there were three and each one of them was a lot split.

Okay. And the lot splits were made to where the both lots met the absolute minimum square footage that they had to.

Okay. Um yeah because I know like Hampton in hotel whatever that's still going on that and I understand that the the administration um approves it and we don't really do much of it but it does require reporting to us just so we can have some type of oversight and know what's going on uh to be able to address those. And then major subdivisions I know that we approved a uh site plan or preliminary site plan for wildwater whales over a year ago. I know I question I passed you some notes around that and I'm sure you probably brought yourself up and I don't expect you to tell us all about it this one but um being a year out already and we haven't seen any additions or any adjustments to the plan and plus recently seen where there were another version of the site plan that included multiple other elements which I don't know if it's official or not um but um we really haven't had any updates on it. I'll be hon. The only thing the only activity on site

is there's a metal I'll call it a metal shed building that they're seeking approval because they want to store things in. Well, of course that triggered the design overlay and we're working with them to put the trees in, to put the landscaping in, to pave the, you know, they didn't want to pave the parking lot. We're having to work with them through that. But that's the only activity that I know about the lot. Um, I have had two individuals from the community come to me and complain about storm water runoff from the site and also a complaint about um, I'll just call it air quality concerns. A lot of dust is being produced. Um, and I called the the applicant and told them that I wanted them to send me a schedule of when they were going to be watering the the roadways, when they're going to be watering the the large piles of of debris. Uh, they did that to my satisfaction. So, I believe they're taking care of the air quality thing. I believe the storm water issue is a bigger issue and it's going to probably get handled as the development comes online where you know basically I always say storm water to me is a drop of water falls on your property you hold that drop of water you don't let it flow onto other people's property and I will tell you that is currently not the case people behind that development are experiencing more than typical storm water runoff onto their properties and we're trying to abate that as well as the the air quality issues.

Thank you. Um, one other question that sparks, um, if if we don't approve the final site plan, are they allowed to start work before we approve the site plan?

The overall site plan, I believe, is something that I would bring forward to you. The uh, I can't, you know, I'll be honest, I can't speak to the one that that they're already working on. I don't know if that didn't come to you, should have come to you, came to you before I I got here, but when I got here, it seemed like it was already on its path forward. Uh, but I'll check into that. If if if there's a site plan approval required by you at some point, I will be sure to bring that to you, but we're still working with them on the site plan. So, that they're not there yet. You know, they're not there yet. They they are it I want to be kind here. they're being a little reluctant to implementing the the design overlay and we're having to kind of go back with them and get them to do the right thing.

And that was kind of my concern around not being updated or anything because I knew they were utilizing the existing buildings in some sort of way. So they have been vacant for 80 days. You know, I think, you know, I was speaking for the on the applicant's behalf here. You know, they don't see this storage building as being like a new development that would get, if you will, triggered by the design overlay, but I had to inform them, no, I'm sorry. It may be only a storage building, but it's it's in our visual, you know, it's in our visual viewshed. So, uh, you know, you need to do the same thing to that site as if you're opening up a retail store. And that's the, uh, that's the challenge we have.

Awesome. Um, thank you. And, and then one other question around the public projects. Um, in your past experience, how does, and it may not have happened in your other states. I'm not sure how it flowed down to the planning commission for public projects. What what is a public project? I mean what what initiates a planning commission review because when I review everything and our definitions and everything it's saying even if a sign is installed uh basically is considered a structure and then if it's erected it's a structure well and it still requires planning commission approval. So I want to get kind of your idea of what a public project would be

as defined almost everything in the world would be. I believe that if somebody is going to post a speed limit sign on 17th, I don't necessarily feel that needs to come to you. When I think of a project, however, I think of the last thing that we had here where we were talking about the PFD holders. To me, that's a project. That's uh, you know, something in entirely different unto itself. It's not ongoing maintenance. It's not ongoing sort of what I would call everyday stuff that the town does. Um, so it does take some level of sort of discretion on my part to decide what should come to you. But certainly the last project that came to you needed to come to you. I mean that is a project. U it's a structure. Uh it's on our beach. Um there are lots of potential um things to talk about on that. Whereas if somebody from the public works department is fixing a fence, I'm not going to bring that to you. So it does take some discretion. But you're correct. If you take a very very if you were to take a very strict reading of that section, a lot of stuff would come to you that probably in the past hasn't come to.

Okay. And basically that has come from state law.

Yeah. It's state law. It's very it's very tightly drawn. All right. Any other questions, Mr. Ch? Nobody. Um I can't remember what year it was but some years ago a previous council um and in speaking about what the f the future of our town was going to look like had some concern over when once the lots started being built out and and we you know kind of got to the point that we're at now that there were that we might see more lot divisions. And there was some concern and you I don't know I know you will probably I don't remember how many people were on at that point but um there was some talk of do we need to look at in R1 how many lots do we have in R1 that could potentially be divided that might not preserve the look and feel of the town that we have now and and should we could we be you know could we should we be looking at that. Not a request to do anything, but just a just a um a thought that I wanted to put in your head of just moving forward to, you know, if you're seeing a lot of lot splits or if that's something we need to get ahead of or do we do anything about at all? Just just

I think that would be a good discussion item for a future meeting. Obviously, it's not on the agenda this evening. Uh but here's what I'm noticing. I'm not noticing just lot splits of vacant lots. What I'm noticing is tear downs of existing singlestory on the ground structures that when they come back in have to be elevated and they're much let's just say they're much larger than what was there. So the character of the neighborhood starts to change. Correct. So I think that would be something that would be a concern of the commission. I think it' be a concern of council as well. I don't know that I don't know where we would inject ourselves in that process. However, um as long as the zoning says that the minimum lot size is such and you've got a 7,000 square foot lot with a single family ranch house on it built in 1947, I'm not sure that we can extract that that property owner's right to tear the house down and and split the plot and put up two uh two much larger and and again because of the flood plane. A lot of them are in a flood plane much larger houses and and in the other states that I've worked in, we we had a word for it. It was called mansionization

and mansionization is something very real in coastal communities and I've worked in four now. Mansionization has always been an issue. So what we've looked at in the past is what will happen is in order to arrive at mansionization, people will look at what their setbacks are and what the height limit is. They'll have their architect literally draw a square that the building can fit in and they will squeeze every inch of building into that box. Yeah. So in other communities where I've worked in coastal communities that have been faced with mansionization, we start to modify the percentage of that box that can be filled and we start to require things like full roofs instead of flat roofs so that people can't go skyhigh because you can imagine if you do a flat roof you can almost get another story in. I mean my house has a full roof and I know that I have space in that attic that is going to waste but it's part of the volume of the house. So I think that would be something that would be a a worthy discussion item for a future planning commission.

So that and again not asking to do anything specifically. I just wanted to kind of put that bug in your ear. Let's keep if it's okay with you. Yeah, absolutely. Let's put it on a let's put on a future agenda item where you're talking. Thank you, Mr. Chair, mayor. I'd also like to put that on a future agenda item and we won't talk about it tonight, but I I I thought about that a bit building on every square inch in relation to the tree ordinance. If we they build on every permitted square inch, there is no place. The only place the only place I can put it is in the setbacks. That's the that's the only open space that we have on those lots. Yeah. Is the setbacks. So

it's probably

so so you can you can almost see where I'm going to go with this tree ordinance says that if you're within 10 ft of the house that tree can be removed and I certainly wouldn't encourage anybody to plant a live oak within 10 ft of the foundation unless they want to be doing some major foundation work in 20 years. So, if you take out the box that the house can fit in, take out the the the 10 ft around the house for the I'll call it the tree buffer. There's very little room left to put in the trees. You're putting literally on your property line with your neighbor next door. You know, you better go get you better go talk to your neighbor about putting trees because they're going to be hanging over their fence. So, it's a it's a worthy discussion item. I think that's something we can put on the next agenda for for just to talk out. Thank you.

Any other questions? I appreciate your report, sir. Thank you. All right, we'll move on to uh business items. I'll make a motion to approve chapter 2 administration section 281 as presented. Second.

Make a dusty motion to Marielle and seconded. Any uh comments? Everyone in agreement say I. I. Anyone opposed? Say n. All right. So, we'll open it up for discussion. Um, basically this was chapter 2 administration section 281 review and recommend amendments of certain sections of chapter 2 administration division section 2 section 281 powers and duties of the planning commission. Uh, we typically do not have jurisdiction over chapter 2, but uh I have met with uh the director and he mentioned that it might be a good idea to offer a recommendation to town council. uh and we don't have to utilize the language that's per perfectly in here. Uh but uh he did recommend uh offering a recommendation to town council uh to update and align uh that chapter 2 section with state law which states that only uh we only propose and recommend a CIP uh if um we currently impose impact fees. And then also in that section, uh I figured it would be appropriate to go ahead and uh um rework where it had expired acts and stuff and update that to the planning enabling act of 1994 South Carolina. I'm in favor of it because I think if we don't recommend an update to the section of of chapter 2, I don't see anybody else doing it. It's just a recommendation. So, u they can do as they want with it. But I think it was important to at least get that information out there. It's already been shared with them, but uh hopefully uh Mark could be a driver in trying to get that uh because one thing I do not want to do is be against state law or not

fulfill our duties as a planning commission. And currently, uh we have about three months to complete a CIP or we're basically not fulfilling our responsibilities. So, and also I don't think we should be in conflict of state law, uh, being that the planning commission gains their authority and stuff from state law. Um, so I think our local ordinance should specify what state law

if it pleases the commission. Mr. Chairman, I would draw everybody's attention to the the resolution that I prepared for moving this chapter forward. And in that I tried to give five reasons to the council of why we are moving this forward. And I would ask that if the commission feels comfortable with those uh to recommend that staff uh staff transmit the resolution as exhibit A to town council with an accompanying staff report that identifies what it is, why we're bringing it, and ultimately a resolution from the commission so that the the council can look at the planning commission's resolution and go, "Oh, okay. Now I understand why this is coming to us." If that's if that's your wish, I will make that happen.

Uh I mean I can amend the motion to state that I mean you can add the resol resolution as you see fit to uh because technically we don't have any authority to amend it or uh write it. I just basically felt it was appropriate to call out the sections that need to be updated. But if you want to write a resolution, I I'll make my motion to allow you to uh that forward to town council

if it if it pleases the the chair and the commission. Um the appropriate I I'll say the appropriate thing that I've learned is that as part of this meeting, I want to read the the title to the resolution and to the record if if that if that suits you. Okay. Um, a resolution recommending amendment to chapter 2, article 3, division 2, section 2-81, powers and duties of the Surfside Beach Municipal Code to update state law references and clarify the commission's duties consistent with the South Carolina local government comprehensive planning enabling act of 1994 parenthesy title 6 chapter 29 SC code parenthesy close parenthesy. Thank you.

Thank you. Uh, do I have a second to the amendment? Second Dusty seconded to amend that and Mary Ellen or Mary seconded and Dusty motion to amend it. Any other discussion? So the amendment is basically allowing uh director BDR to uh present that to town council a resolution uh that basically outlines uh the the planning enablement adjustments and uh the other elements for the CIP to be only mandated or optional if a we impose impact fees as a feature. Everyone in agreement say I. I. Anyone opposed say nay. All right. Motion passes.

Thank you, Mark. You're welcome.

All right. We'll move on to uh discussion item uh chapter 17 uh the design overlay review amendments of certain sections of chapter 17 zoning article design overlay the code of ordinance of the town of South Southeast South Carolina. Um, director Berier has uh provided a draft uh from his previous work in our previous meetings. Uh, it's basically a supplement uh that will be addition of the existing design overlay is my understanding. Um, and it is a draft. Uh, we were going to put it as a business item, but we have to have a public hearing before we actually make motions. Uh so from here on out uh hopefully we'll get consensus on a good draft and if any adjustments need to be done and then if we have to we'll call a special meeting to uh allow a public hearing or we'll have a public hearing in our next meeting. I will give you the floor mark and you can explain your draft and then we'll open it up for questions.

Thank you Mr. Chairman. Yes sir. Um, the design overlay was first implemented by the town council in 2013. And usually when you've had an ordinance in place that long, you should be able to go out onto the project area and some changes have been made. And I will tell you that in my opinion, the ordinance has not fulfilled its promise. In order to fulfill its promise, I feel two things are true. The ordinance in place works very very good, very well, I should say, on new development coming out of the for instance. I've looked at the, you know, the Hampton Inn was before I got here, but I've had a chance to look at the plans and I've had a chance to look at the the overlay district and I look at the Hampton in and I go, "Okay, that's what it's supposed to do. It's working. We don't have that many new buildings on Highway 17 that we can look to as what I would call examples of good design. I think you probably all could tell me before the Hampton Inn gets built what was the last building that was built on Highway 17 that you can look at and was it was it built before 2013 or was it built under the opaces of chapter? I

I'm I'm hoping that somebody from the public will will enlighten him. What it doesn't do very well is it doesn't deal with existing development very well. So I'm suggesting an amendment to the to the code that would be a a I'll call it that's the dog. I'm suggesting a tail. I'm suggesting a piece on the back of the ordinance that would deal specifically with our existing small mom and pop mini mall strip centers, single buildings that have been there forever kind of thing where the the ownership changes or they do a a certain number of dollars worth of improvements that triggers I I'm going to use the word trigger a lot tonight. uh that I believe that just the short amount of time that I've been here, the three applicants that I've met with who are changing ownership really didn't get what the overlay is trying to do. Okay. And by working with them, I think that the answer is coming up with a small number of items that if you're going to change ownership, you have to do A, B, C, and D. It's not negotiable. You have to do A, B, C, and D. You have to clean the building. You have to paint the building if it needs paint. You need to fix the broken glass. You need to steam clean the walkway. You need to fix fill the potholes in the parking lot. You need to put landscaping in front of the building. Five basic things. It's not going to kill anybody to do it. It's just you've got to bring that property up to looking like it's been maintained as of last year, not 25 years ago. And many of the buildings that I've visited,

I will tell you, have not had an ounce of maintenance, an ounce of landscape refurbishment in 10 or 15 years. And this is our one chance to to get that from the ex from these existing developments. And when you present them with what we have currently in the ordinance, they literally stare at you like a deer in the headlights and they go, I have to do what? It's it's it works for new development. It doesn't work for existing. So my suggestion to you is to add on a few things. And if you'll bear with me for just a second, I'll try to highlight um exactly what those items are. And of course, I've got paper all over my desk here. Um,

I'm not sure how you handle it, though, but u, you know, I call the section out so we can follow along with you.

Sure. Um, let's go to u the title on the top of the page is draft ordinance highway 17 corridor appearance improvement program. an ordinance to establish a program for the incremental aesthetic and functional improvement of existing properties within the Highway 17 corridor and to promote economic vitality and to preserve and enhance community character. This would be an addition to the design overlay. I'm not going to dissect the design overlay just yet. That's going to be a much bigger job for a later time. But I believe we have some things that need to be done uh immediately. Uh the specific if you turn the page and you go to number four. Um I'll just take you to that quickly. Um facade and walkways. All existing walls and sidewalk shall be power wash or painted as a minimum. Painting shall not be distracting or garish. Ne neutral earth tones are required. Site utilities. This is a big one. Scrape, prime, and repaint all light poles, sign poles, utility boxes, and railings in a uniform color. Signage, all new signage shall comply with the municipal code. That's a simple one. Landscaping. At a minimum, the front property land adjacent to Highway 17 shall employ and install a 24-in wide landscape strip. And one of the potentially controversial things I put in here, I'm going to tell you about. I don't believe that putting live landscaping out there is going to last more than five years. I really don't. I just look at these centers and history tells me that they will go out there and plant five shrubs and within two years all five of those shrubs are going to be dead as doornails. What I'm suggesting is that they put in a 30 a 24-inch wide landscape strip

consisting of a hedge that's basically artificial silk planting. And these are commercial these are commercial installations not the silk plants that you put in your house. This is commercialgrade industrial grade u material and the reason I like it is maintenancefree it's eco-friendly and they're all UV resistant so they will last a minimum of 15 years uh before they have to be replaced. The the alternative to that, and that's why I'm I'm presenting it to you this way. The al alternative to that is go back to what we were doing and let them put shrubs in. We have a a development currently on Highway 17 that we just worked with that went out and put shrubs in. We told them put shrubs in. We didn't specify. There's no specification for putting in the plants. They put in plants that I would call one or two gallon plants. They're about this big and they're literally 20 feet apart. That will never create a hedge on that road before those plants are dead because there isn't a an irrigation system. I don't believe I don't believe personally that the property owner is going to be out there with a watering can watering his plants, making sure that those shrubs take hold. So, I'm being a little bit more aggressive here and suggesting that they put in what I call a a boxwood hedge, which would be instantaneously they put it out there tomorrow and tomorrow there's a 36 in solid hedge in front of this parking lot. That alone will make an enormous difference in the the appearance of Highway 17. And I believe if it's not your highest priority, it should be the council's highest priority is to improve the appearance of Highway 17. That is our front door. That is how people

decide what kind of community we are. When you drive into Garden City, I will tell you that I have a different feeling about Highway 17 and Garden City than I have on Surfside. We want to we want to improve that image as much as we can. So, that's the most controversial thing that I've put in here. Um, exterior lighting shall be shall be shielded to prevent light pollution on other properties and parking lots with significant cracking or pothole shall be resurfaced, repaired, and parking spaces restriped to comply with the minimum requirements intended for the use of the property. That's it, folks. Um, what I do put in the ordinance as well is I want to make people aware of the fact that we have a facade improvement program. I want people on Highway 17 to use this facade improvement program and I want the and ultimately I want there to be so much pent up demand for it that I want to be able to go back to council in two years and go I've got people lining up to do improvements to their to their property. In the past, we haven't had a lot of people coming forward to take advantage of this facade improvement program. So, I've actually put language in the ordinance letting them know that it's fair. Um, the other thing, the last thing, and and this is this is probably a a little bit of a a touchyfey kind of a thing, is that I believe that the owners of these centers need to be given an appropriate amount of time to make all of these changes. I'm not going to say I want it in 30 days. I'm not going to say in 60 days. Heck, most of them haven't even got the closing done in 60 days. They're still working out the details of their deal, right? Um, so I I suspect that a minimum I wouldn't want to give them more than two years, but I'd certainly want to

give them at least a year to be able to do some of this. So, I want you to think about that and think about the owners that you know out there and think about the amount of work that I've just asked them to do. And I would tell you if somebody came in with none of somebody came in and had to do all of these, particularly the parking lot repaving it or slurry seal or whatever they want to do to to make that parking lot look good. And we're talking upwards of 45 to $65,000 to do these improvements. I think it's unfair to say to them you have to have done three months. I think it's unfair to say you have to have nine months. But I need your counsel on how long we think we should give them extending outward from there. Um, so I would like to get some feedback from you all tonight so that when I come back to you next time, we have a number in here that you all feel comfortable with. Um, and I'd also like your input on your thought on the hedge. Uh, I've had some of you tell me that you think they ought, we ought to just we ought to just tell them specifically what the hedge plant material should be. We want the plant material. We should be able to say we want a 24-in boxwood hedge. We should articulate for them exactly what type of hedge we want because if we if we leave it to the applicant, we will be unhappy. So, we should specify specifically what we think will grow, what requires the least amount of maintenance, and tell them to put in live plants. But I've gone a step further with this and said, "No, we're not going to let you do live plants because we know that in that 24 in of pave of landscaping, if you've ever planted a tree or shrubs, you know that those things need room to grow. 24 inches is like a minimum amount that you'd give a hedge to grow in. So, will

it make it? Will it die?" Yeah, this is one of those ordinances that I bring forward to you more as a discussion item for further discussion, not as a I think I've got it. I think I've got it figured out. I don't have it figured out. But I will tell you that what we have isn't working and I'll just leave it there. Um, I did have a couple of questions. Um, if we specified live boxwood hedge, whatever, would we also specify that it needed to be have a watering system? Because obviously if it doesn't,

likely not going to live. We we add cost. The answer is yes. Okay, we add cost. If we're going to go that far, we should also specify that the the boxwood hedges that they plant are minimum of what I call two gallon specimens and they're no further than 18 to 20 inches on setup. We should like weigh it out almost like we're the constructor. We're the contractor. We're going to put this many plants this far off apart. Boxwood hedge minimum two gallon specimen size and then it has to be irrigated.

So, Um, second, the silk product that you're talking about, have you seen that? I've seen it in use. Okay. And is there anywhere close by that we could see it that you are aware of? I've actually seen some on um on Ocean Boulevard and I want to say it was in Garden City that I saw it, but they did a whole wall of it. They did, you know, how everybody's, you know, how everybody in the in the flood plane is is up like 12, 13 feet. Well, they did something on one wall where it looks like it's a live vine.

I stopped the car, walked out, I saw the gentleman out there. I said, "Is that a live hedge?" He goes, "Oh, no. Is that a live hedge?" He goes, "Go over and touch it." I go over and touch it. It feels like a a leaf. But as you drive by, he's got this nice wall hedge that is screening his the underneath of his uh Yeah, because everybody, as you all know, throws all their junk down. So, if were we to do that, would we specify a specific product like by a specific company? I I wouldn't do No, I wouldn't do that. I would let the free market play itself out because these these do they're not they're not cheap,

right? And and that's so that's my part of my question as well is that is is it is it um putting an undue burden burden. Thank you for the word. It it might be it might be um I don't I don't know the answer. I'm not familiar. And again I'm I'm seeking your input here.

Yeah. a hedge for a a 90 let's say an 80 or 90 foot lot for the span of that lot is going to cost somewhere in the neighborhood of between 18 and $22,000. It's not going to cost that much to put in live plants. But if you put in live plants, you're not going to have the impact for at least four years, maybe five. And if we're lucky, the plants have survived. So, what I'm looking at is how do how does this town get these applicants to improve the appearance of our of your corridor? How do we get them to do that without breaking the bank, without giving them a way where they it's left to them to decide how far the plants are going to be spaced and all that sort of thing. I think that's that's for an ordinance like this. It's just too much discretion. And I think we want to minimize the discretion and be as specific as possible. Um, I found that when you're as specific as possible, you get more concurrence and get people on board. When you leave it to them, this is there's this uncomfortable sort of wishy-washy kind of like, yeah, I'm not sure that what you just did to the parking lot is really repairing a hole because I still see a hole. It's black now, but there's still a hole there. It's got to be clear. It's got to be clear language so that um so that my code people can go out there and do that final inspection and go, you've got the hedge, you've done your parking lot, you've restriped it, you've you've um powerwashed the facade, you fixed that cracked window in the corner. That's that's the kind of that's the kind of of program that I believe we need. And and

and again, I want to stress that I think the town has has a an ability here through the facade improvement program to see some of these things actually happen and be able to help some of these folks do these things. Not going to lie, I'm I'm the girl that you're talking about that's going silk. Are you kidding me? So, I mean, it's my gut reaction, right? But and I think I've seen the wall that you're talking about in Garden City. But I would if we were to move ahead with something like that, I would love if there's any way for you to do any kind of research and find out if there's an area anywhere that is anywhere close by that maybe we could see a hedge.

You know what? You know what we could do? And I've done this before. I did this with a a city where they I specked a new light pole for their main street. They said, "Well, can we see it?" I called the manufacturer. It was there in 4 days and we put it outside of city hall for two months and had people vote on it. We had two different ones. Vote on which one you like.

I'll bet you if I contacted one of these silk plant manufacturers, they'd be more than happy to come down here and put a hedge right on the side of this building right up here on the on the landscape side so that we could all get a look at and feel for what these look. And again, these are these are not these are not homeowner um level products. This is and these are typically used in big industrial complexes, business parks, those sorts of things. So, don't get the idea that when I say silk plant that you're thinking, well, silk plant's not going to last out there. It it'll last. It's it's it's built to last. That's true.

Now, I I um I do have an I mean, I'd love to hear a lot more about it. I think it's very interesting. I kind of lighten the thought process of at least looking into it to see the product, understanding, touch it, feel it, you know, know what we think about it. You read some reviews about it, whatever. Um, I have I would also like for us to put a little bit of thought into I agree with you. I one 100% don't think we can say you have to use this company. I don't think that would be appropriate. We let them select it. However, from company to company, product can be very different.

I know. So, we we need to think about that as well and just at least think that through a little bit as as well as nursery stuff, even if we went live plant, right? Absolutely. I can tell you that, you know, if I go to Home Depot and buy three trees and put them in my yard, two are going to die, one's going to live. If I go to what's the biggest nursery in the country? There's a nurse I can't it's the name just slipped my mind. You get three trees from them. Believe me, those three trees are going to grow. So, True Blue, what is it? True Blue and Molly. True Blue. Yeah, there's that's a local one, but there's a national one that if you want a tree in your yard and you're serious about the tree,

you call them and and they will plant it right, put it in, right, and it will last. So yeah, you're correct. It's a conversation for later, right?

Maybe we give them a list of here are eight cont here are eight companies that do it and do it well. Select from one of those because if I'm the property owner, I'm looking to save money. So I'm going to call five of them and I'm going to take low bid. That's what we have to expect. People are going to take low bid. So we have to make sure that if we provide them or we require this that we tell them that here are the eight companies we want you to choose from so that we don't get some really hokey pokey uh on our edge or something. And I would think that if if if in fact this is something we ultimately decide on and we move it forward to council that I would certainly think that they would want to see something physical too because that's a big that's a big bite.

That's a big ticket. So but I like the out of the box thinking. Thank you for that. I just want to ask a question. So I mean I think we can only regulate time, place and manner correctly. So I don't understand how we could say hey you need to buy from this particular

we can give them a range of we can give them several alternative we can't say one we can't even say three we've got to give them a list of like 8 to 10 different manufacturers u and if they come to us and say I'm using a different manufacturer all we have to do is just look at the spec and we'll know whether it's going to last because you know if I have done my research on these believe it or and they all expected different UV resistance and all sorts of things. So, the most important thing to me is the UV resistance. How long are these going to look good out there? Uh, I would hope that we, you know, we're hoping for at least 15 years, I would think, out of these things before they start, you know, you've seen what happens to the plastic and silk when you the yellow starts to come on the edges, starts to give give it away a little bit.

Yeah. Um, I have a lot of questions, but um I'm just going to ask one first and it's related to the UV and the plants that we're talking about. Um you're not the only one that was wow cuz I was too. What you doing?

Um I shared my thoughts with the director. Um our current uh existing overlay states that uh if it is triggered um the perimeter adjacent to the public rideway uh it should include um 5 foot of width and shall contain a minimum wood shade or or animal tree and 10 shrubs with appropriate ground cover for every 30 leaner feet or fraction thereof of street front. So if if the if the business place is 20 ft apart then they're not meeting and I understand what you're probably saying. I mean that's a lot of stuff and it's a lot of money impacted on the business but I'm just stating what the existing

the um the applicants who have moved forward in the process since I've been here have not fulfilled that specification. I will just tell you that.

Um they do what they think they can do. Um, one of them looks pretty good, I would tell you. They're still kind of far apart. We'll never have that that green hedge look along the corridor. Um, they didn't plant any new trees because they had existing trees that qualified in the in the frontage. Uh, so, you know, this is this is going to be more art than science, folks. U, it's it's it's beginning on paper what we want to have happen out there. Um, but I'm bringing it forward now so that we can start discussing it so that when we do put it into ordinance and we do push it forward to the council that we've vetted this idea pretty well and have decided what we think is most appropriate

and um in this proposal it's more related to lower ground ground coverage instead of higher. Is is that do you feel like that's appropriate?

That's that's the appropriate thing to do. We could recommend let's say Acer resosa. That's a that's a a maple tree. We could say, you know, 24in box maple trees every 40 ft on center. That would create a stunning look on Highway 70. Stunning. 24inch box maple tree is going to cost the applicant probably $800 out of pocket to have it planted. And I guarantee you what's going to happen is that tree ground starts to take root. It starts to fill out. People are going to start trimming those because they're going to feel that their signs aren't visible. I've run into this all the all over the place. So, I want to be careful about requiring trees. I want some trees, but I don't want like a full-blown, if you sort of straight hedge of low hedge and then high hedge because the applicants will will butcher those trees because they'll feel that their their signs aren't being looked at. Um, uh, I don't know what else to say about that. I mean, we have to we collectively have to decide what we feel is doable. go maintenance and stay out there and gets us the look that we want. That's really all I'm asking for at this point. What gets us where we want to be.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Larry, uh just a couple quick uh questions or comments. Uh but my concerns about the silk uh plants, yeah, it gets kind of windy here. Are those things going to be blown out of the ground or are they going to be as good as a rooted rooted uh say they'll be better than a rooted plant. Uh the the footings on these things are are literally like the size of cinder blocks that go into the ground and then get covered up. Um

I probably wouldn't go as far as to say they're as good as a rooted hawthornne. A you know if you've ever had a hawthornne in your yard and I have, they're brutal. I mean once they root in you you literally need a chainsaw to get it out of the ground. Um Hawthorne Edge is a pretty tough animal. Um, if we wanted to do a natural buffer, then we would just say Hawthorne shrub and we would then specify how close we want those Hawthorne shrubs to be. So that ultimately would get a hedge about the height of this table in front of the parking lot. What we're trying to do with that hedge is hide as much of the I'll call it the business end of the business, which is the parking lot and the cars. So, as you drive by, all you see is this hedge. You maybe see the tops of cars, but what you're looking at is the business. That's what we want people to look at, right? We want people to look at the business, not not the parking lot with the holes in it or, you know, the cars that are, you know, in the parking lot, you know, with glare and things like that. We're trying to get this nice clean look right along Highway 17. And it's really all up to you. I mean, I came up with this out of out of the world idea because I had seen it in some of these manufacturers brochures where they had done it business parks and I'll tell you the impact on those business parks was phenomenal uh by doing this because it's it's instant. It's like it happens tomorrow. Um Hawthorne Hedge five years. We're going to wait five years for that. Uh and maybe that's not so bad. The ordinance has been in place in 13 years and I don't want to dump on your ordinance, but I don't see a lot of I don't see a lot of stuff going on out there that I'm really really happy about.

Uh the one other and it's a minor issue is uh that's like if if you're putting in these silk things uh like you're putting in more hard surface, there's no place for water to go. That's right. That's right. That that is a concern. And you know that is certainly something cub* 2 that's 120 square ft. That's a lot of ground that could absorb water that isn't going to Yeah. The uh clearly what I do want to make clear though is that that 24 in will still be what I would call absorbable soil.

What will happen is that that plant as that water falls on that that plant's roots won't be sucking that water in. That's really the difference. That's That's But that ground will still be there. It's not going to be a solid thing on the ground. All right. Are you finished? Yes. Scott?

Yes. Um general statement, not necessarily questions or probably will come a question, but I think overall this Highway 17 corridor appearance improvement program idea, the tail on the dog. I love dogs and dogs with tails are even better, right? Um, but I appreciate it seemed to me it's like a breath of fresh air. It there's common sense solutions in this. Uh, there's creative ideas with this. There's triggering uh events that make sense. I mean, if what what is it? If uh you have a change of occupancy or business ownership, it triggers it. And I think most people understand if you're starting a new business, I mean, you want to do some of this anyway. Why not be incentivized with and I I also appreciate your addition of the uh section of incentives and supportive programs. Um you know Melody and Larry uh stole the thunder of all the questions I had. So you guys are on top of things and I'm behind. So um but you know the question of does seem kind of expensive if you're talking about close to $20,000 for shrubs. Um, hurricane resistance is an important issue. Um, and the cost, but you know what what you're saying is this improvement grant program possibility of having some type of fund that the town has or a grant system where they can, you know, match 50% or so. But still, if we're if we're just a one shrub idea, uh the synthetic shrubs, um if that's close to $20,000, then your maximum is close to $5,000, it's a quarter of what they would be

spending. Um, but the benefit of this type of plant, if it's UV rated, um, and technology is getting better and better and better, they don't have to go out and trim their shrubs, you know, they don't have to go out and water their shrubs. Um, it it'll it could potentially look amazing for 10, 15 years and then a slow decline and sometimes people like aged looking. I don't know. But um but I think just in general I think it's a it's a it's a different idea. I think it's a it's a good idea. It's a start um from where I think we were. I mean, we all agree that 17 isn't the prettiest. Um, you know, but we also have to understand, too, that they they are businesses and they do need to advertise their business or they don't get business. Um, and so, you know, there the issues of having trees all along. Exactly. You would can't see a sign or you can't see a stop sign. I mean, I've had that where, you know, somebody goes through and ends up having having trouble. Um, you know, there there's details that I think we can talk about. Um, you know, but I think just in general,

I appreciate the work that you put into this. I don't know if you used a template from before or, you know, where you combined some things, but um, a lot of it makes sense. I uh you know just a little note and I have other notes and I'm not going to bore you with that but um neutral earth tones are required. I mean those are details that we can talk about but I know that you know we're a beach community. Sometimes walkways are teal or blue to add you know just a beachy feel. So, you know, some, you know, different parameters, but but overall I uh I appreciate and it it it feels good that it seems like maybe this could do something, you know, and right now anything that could happen, I think would be a plus.

So, I appreciate your uh your efforts. Thank you, Scott. Before I pass it on, honey, this is the time to share your thoughts. So, if you had any more, I know you said you didn't want to boring, but on on the details of the specifics. Well, I mean, if it's helpful, if we want to move this along and you have some details, I mean, I would personally Scott, let me ask you a question. Sure.

And it's a question really for all of you. We're talking about two different animals here in terms of creating this. I'll call it the green the green line. I'll call it we're we're going to we're going to name this now. It's the green line that we're trying to create downtown. We could give them the option of either or. I mean, we could say you could do hedge. There's no, you know, there's no maintenance involved here. You don't have to trim it. There's and it's going to be there for a long time. Or we're going to specify, you know, the exact gallon size, the exact spacing, the exact plant material. You know, we'll give them the Latin name. I mean, we'll we'll be very specific. And that cost will approach the cost of the of the of the silk boxwood hedge. It'll approach it. and it won't approach it necessarily out of the box at the for sale end of it. But if you take 15 years of maintenance of that hedge and add it to that hedge line, you're talking about the you're almost talking the same cost. So maybe we can maybe that's something we can discuss. Maybe we can discuss a a a an option. We give them an option to do either one. Let's give them some kind of of uh discretion on their part to decide what they want to do. Um and maybe and maybe as part of this we you know like I said we bring a hedge in we have it here we all decide whether we think it's goodlook number one number two look at is it going to last is it going to get blown away in a hurricane I mean those are all good questions that even I'd have you know so yeah maybe we you know maybe that's just one of the thoughts that I want to plant in your in your heads is maybe we give them the option of the of the boxwood hedge And maybe we bring down maybe what we do is in order to bring the cost of the the hedge down is that we have like 10 foot sections 10 foot

section 5 foot open 10ft section 5t open. The appearance coming down the roadway is still going to be the same. It's going to be the green line. You're not going to see that break. So maybe they don't have to put that 36 in head all 90 ft of the front edge of the building. Maybe we work some kind of a mathematical thing out where it's about the same cost as purchasing live plant material.

Yes, I I do appreciate uh one thing you said about um letting the free market do its thing. Often times you get higher quality, better product. you know, there they're and you know, people have the freedom to choose. You know, figuring out how to incentivize and seeing if we can somehow come up with some type of, you know, assistance program or grant money that would be, I think, extremely helpful. Um, I also know that, you know, we talked about having it opportunity for this amount of five, seven, 10 companies that they could choose from.

But I've learned in the past being the little guy that if you don't buy in bulk, you're paying top dollar, which really is frustrating because, you know, I'm working as hard as anybody else. Um but maybe there's also a way to find maybe not say you have to go with these companies. However, three or five of the companies we can say hey you know if we work with you you know can you give us a bulk opportunity for these businesses to work you will get a substantial discount. I did and I know it because I've done with street lamps.

Okay. If you specify two or three companies and you say, "You're on my list of preferred vendors, they will cut you they will cut you a pretty sizable discount because now they know that it's a sure bet. You know, they're getting they're going to be writing some some invoices for, you know, some big numbers, especially when it comes to street lights."

So, just one more question. Um, and it's just referring to what you had mentioned about the details. you know, there's a lot of things. You know, I I think this is just an initial version of what we're talking about. So, I think some of the specifics we can go deeper into and we've already gone over the surface. So, I think specifically um this sort of more of an outline that we can move forward from, right? Okay. Yep. That's it. That's what it's here.

Y Thank you. And uh like you said, Scott, this is a draft, but he's looking to schedule and and it's determined basically about the planning commission, of course, but um and what I would say, we most likely will have another special meeting just to discuss the drafts, but I want to make sure we have clear information provided to him to be able to create that draft so we can move it forward so we're not having another special meeting talking about the same stuff and moving on. So I would definitely encourage any commission member to go ahead and let him know what's look what to look for in the next draft so we can push that very helpful. Okay. Mariel,

first of all I want to thank you Mark for this creative out of the box really unique approach to this whole thing. I I love most out of all of them. I don't even want to talk about artificial edges. That's fine. As long as they won't blow away our pain, it's fine. Uh there's one big point I do want to make that I haven't heard anybody else make yet. There's a lot of tippy toe around how much it's going to cost the poor little building owner. I'd like to suggest that these a good many of these building owners have all the money they have saved by not spending a thin dime in over 13 years. I am not inclined to be terribly sympathetic. Yes, we need to give them a reasonable amount of time. I don't expect them to pocket and have $20,000 or but I also am not going to be over overly sympathetic when for 13 years they either haven't hit a trigger. it's not working or they didn't get caught. Now, there's all that money they didn't spend. So, let's think about that when we're feeling really sorry for them. Uh other than that, uh there's I I love everything in the plan. I a little wondering about the mechanics that we need to talk about. For instance, in uh section three, item two, you propose a gradual improvement plan that we building owners must submit.

Obviously, in our discussions, we're going to have to get to some kind of a a point where there's a deadline by which they must submit it.

I would just like to suggest that if we're looking way down the road and an unfortunate result, this could wind up in court. Therefore, I think telling the not the not the businesses, the property owners, informing every single one of them. I don't care if Palestine or New York or where certified letter. Here's the new ordinance. Here is exactly what you must do and the time you must do it by. And track it with receipts. So, as we go down the line, we're not going to be Oh, he didn't know. I mean, putting it on Facebook, I'm sorry, that's not good enough for this. This is This is We're heading into a legal process.

Yeah, that's all I have. Let's uh pay real attention to the mechanics and let's remember all the money these property owners have not spent.

Thank you. Last and least um I'll I'll thank you for putting this together. I I think it's something to start working and thinking from. So as we get in deeper discussions, a lot of my comments are like tickytac items, but some things for me anyway that come front of mind at the launch of this is I think we all agree 17 look better. I think where we vary a little bit is the source. I don't think the source of 17 not looking good is 11 pages of a design overlay. I think I've been here four years. There has not been a business that is open that the town forced that business to follow the design overlay. That's right.

And often times even the use chart. So as much as we talk about business owners this that the fault Surfside the town of Surfside Beach that building created like that's where it begins and ends with me. Not to be crass about it, but like we're going to fix it. Understand the source first. We didn't enforce anything. So, it's not so much the 11 pages versus four pages. Right.

Uh I do quite you mentioned in the last meeting you question the legality of much of the design overlay. So, would this hold up in in court? I think this is a little further away from holding up in court actually if that's the concern. If the if that's not the concern, which I'm okay with, and it's hey, if we get 60% of the people on board, that's better than the 0% improvement today. And that's why I just think we need to be aware that

a lot of this is not enforcable, particularly the subjective language around is your paint garish? Well, your garish is different than mine, right? So, but I I get the point and I'm excited about, hey, like we're we're actually going to be proactive with business owners. Um, the one point that I think we run into a problem with that we should be aware of the get- go is if you're saying we're going to pay attention to these four pages, ignore the design overlay out of the gate. I basically what we're saying is some of our laws are more important than other. I would rather come out of the gate and say we're going to put a moratorum on sign overlay for 24 months while we enact this and just let's get some incremental growth. I don't like anyone, any law or any government saying ignore a law, put it on hold, shel it, and let's give this a try rather than I don't want you I don't want any government official to say I am making a decision to ignore that one, right? That just feels

Yeah. And I'm a little nervous that the property owners that need to do this the mo most by my estimation are probably the least likely to do it. Like if I I lived in Florida and I had something up here for 30 years and you sent me this letter to say come up with a two-year plan to improve the aesthetics, I might just put it in the shredder and I don't think there's anything you can do about it. So, I'm I'm not taking that stance myself, but I can see property owners saying that probably right saying there's not much you could do.

Well, if unless it's a change of ownership. I can't force anybody that has an owner that's 15 years in owner and he's in Florida and he's going to own it another 15 years. His property is going to look the same in 15 years. We don't have a trigger to go after the long-term owner. Totally agree. But the way this is written is every existing business owner must put together a aesthetic plan on change of ownership. That's not how it's written. Well, that's the way that's the intent. Okay. If it's not written that way, then we'll correct it. But each existing commercial property owner shall submit an aesthetic improvement plan to the planning department. Plan must outline a timeline not exceed two years. That was one. Yeah. The second one. There's a triggering event,

right? for a gradual improvement plan which is different than a mist plan by definition words. So we need to have the intent match the words. That's all. Okay. Y but overall what we're doing is not working. So I'm all in trying something new. So thank you for that. Thank you.

All right. I'm going to go and um I don't want to lead into multiple discussion into it. I'm just going to share my uh my questions and then uh I'm sure you can and I've already shared them with you as well. So I just want to if it inspires any other questions from the commission uh I want to so with the design overlay I have never seen a supplement being added like this when our existing design overlay already pretty much states existing and new development. So, I'm curious, is there any uh anything we have to do to the existing design overlay within this work to be able to even add this up because we need to either remove the requirements of the existing buildings inside that ordinance or we need to reference it to this.

Yeah, the answer is yes. All right. Um definitions should be aligned with the IBC and IBMC. So, that's the international building code and international building maintenance code which you know we have adopted. So uh a lot of times in the past we read ordinances and nobody knows where to direct it to and we have different meanings author ordinances but we've adopted that ordinance. So I think the I think any definition should be matched within that international building code in international that is absolutely not necessarily true. Okay. You can you can adopt a different ordinance anytime you can adopt a different definition anytime you want to. Okay. And that's within the ordinance itself or how do you gauge what the definition is?

It would be in the body of of the resolution that you're specifically making changes to definitions to the IDC with the definitions contained in this ordinance. You have that you have that right. You do not have to march IDC like it's a straight line. So that's great. But then when we're talking about building, we're talking about maintenance or if any other building, then of course that would relate back to the IBC. Anything that Yes. Anything that we don't put a specific definition that's different of the IBC, it then falls back to the IBC. Okay. And then the definition will be inside the supplement or

Yeah. the the language would be if it's not defined here, which might be different than the IBC, then the IBC controls, but you as a planning commission and us as a town have every right to modify an ordinance with new definitions that we feel are more appropriate than the IBC. The IBC is a building code. It's not a design code. It's not It doesn't even think about design a lot of times. Yeah. So you have the the right to modify definitions as long as you also say in the definitions definitions not found here are found in the blah blah blah blah blah. Yeah. Yeah.

And that's where I want to be clear because I want you to know that you have a right to to make some changes. Yeah. And that's kind of where I want to be clear too because I mean most of our definitions are in the first portion of chapter 17 and they reference all the rest of the in chapter 17 instead of the definitions actually being in each one of the ordinances specified if there a difference. So that causes a lot of confusion when you're going back and forth and you got multiple definitions codified and you're trying to figure out which one actually applied or which one was the last one uh that is the most focused. Uh so um I just want to make sure that's clear on that that portion. Yeah, that that's that's good.

Um, and of course, you know, I I think about the future and I want all the orders. We're doing hard work and stuff. Uh, I question if the C4 entertainment district should be in a design overlay as well. Um, the C4 was actually implemented after a design overlay. Uh, but I mean, there's no delay. There's no design overlay, no requirements for that area whatsoever down there. So, they pretty much can do what they want to. That's interesting. A bit of history if I may. Oh, sure, Larry. I was on the commission when we were dealing with that. Yeah, there was a design overlay plan, but it was uh when they were council rewrote everything, it was all

So, and I understand we're trying to implement this fast and I understand all that, but I'm just specifying there's no design overlay with no requirements for C400. Let me ask you, let me ask you a direct question. Don't you feel that the C4 really deserves its own design overlay because it's a funky area and we want it to be beachy and fun? Yes.

We don't want 17 to be necessarily all beachy and fun. So my suggestion is next next plan B is to come back and do the seafloor entertainment district with a funky cool groove to it rather than hedges and pave parking lots. So yes, thank you. Um And then I also had the question around the gradual improvement plan. It was my understanding of that was well was every commercial business would be submitting that within two years and they had two years to complete it. If that's not the intent, I would definitely regret that because that's exactly how I looked at.

It's just a traditional business. And then I didn't see um I had the same question as Mary Ellen. How is it communicated? A certified letter sounds very great because we have a reference point where we can verify that we have communicated those changes, their requirements to them. Um, another item I didn't see in there either. What if they don't submit a gradual improvement plan? Is there any penalty to it or you tell me if you want a teny phase of this or not? I wasn't going to go there. Well, sounds like you want to go there.

No, this is what I don't want to do. I don't want to selectly enforce stuff. So I don't want to make this person give me a gradual plan and not make this person. That's where I'm at. I don't think that's fair. And I don't think if we're going to require it, yes, we're trying to inspire aesthetics and improvements, but I don't like the selective enforcement. I don't like No, we're on the same page on that. I absolutely agree with you. Um and then also I had a note here where it says have we nailed down a mechanism to follow up on change of occupancy a business owner change and what if existing businesses changes locations within the town?

That's a that's that's the kind of stuff that I struggle with with the overlay. How many times Okay, so I'm going to I'm going to be the dummy here. How do we know when ownership changes? Did somebody come to city hall and said, "We're changing ownership." I mentioned ownership changes out there all the time and we never made aware of it. So maybe we need to rethink how we trigger. I know the answer. Tell me. Okay. Well, business licensing department can any new owner cannot operate off a old or transferable. They have to come in and get a new business license. Okay. So the business license would

So Nicole tracks all that. She knows when an owner change and she even reports it to us out monthly and the business committee monthly and she will explain that she she actually has the date that the the licensing was turned back in. So that's you could track vacancy from that. Okay. Um there's a lot of elements in the business licensing department that could be pulled and then also with the design overlay and the discussions that I've had with the administration they actually implemented on the business license portions even the design overlay sign off. So therefore, I mean, a business license cannot even be permitted to a new business owner unless PBNZ signs off on the design. Mr. Chair, Mary Ellen, see, I'm the dummy.

My problem with that is it's all voluntary. What the couple doesn't know doesn't hurt anybody. I think there's a whole lot of that goes on that the business license department has no idea about. I see it all the time. Okay. So we we need to we need another way of finding out somebody voluntary. Yeah. I'm not the expert in the room. I monitor real estate listings or something.

All right. Um uh you did note the 50% um appraisal value of building that has currently not went to council yet. I would if that's where we're moving to if it's going to be presented within this design overlay as well. It was a uh official recommendation from the planning commission in January, I believe. Um so I don't know what we're doing with it, but um Okay. Have you have the public hearing on it? Yes. Have you haven't put together a resolution to go to council? No, we we have never follow that. I'm not sure if you want to tie it into this and do it all at one time. Would be perfect. That might be the chairman. Mr. German might be just let's clean it and all.

Thank you. Um, how do we address shopping plazas having a larger value? So, there is triggers in here, but if we're one off the building value, the uh tax appraisal only shows the building value. So, therefore, if you have shopping plaza and it's a million dollars, it's never going to hit a trigger. So, don't know if there's a systematic way we can do that or

Yeah, that's that's the that's the part that I haven't figured out yet, Mr. Chairman. I think that, you know, waiting for change of ownership is is iffy. Business license will get us, I think, closer, but the whole value, the ownership thing, I'm not really sure that was well thought through u because you just raised an excellent point. It's a shopping center. Where's the value shopping center? Is the value in the land eight acres or is the shopping or is that old shopping center building the uh the important part of that that assessor uh that assessment figure? Again, you know, there are parts of this that I I will have to seek other other expertise on because I'm not an expert in that. Thank you. Um um and then you had mentioned also like a 2 to sevenyear period uh for signs to be moved or replaced or

conforming. Um that's another and I'm sure that uh you will create a system everything but that's another thing in the past that we've not been able to do because I know we have an ordinance currently that to told us that in 10 years span there should be no billboards in town either but there still is. So my question is if for one is this enforceable because are you what if you're not here in seven years? Do we have some a mechanism to go back and say this needs to be followed up and this expires? I'll tell you the way it's done and I don't want to let me just put it this way because I I think we're we're running a little wrong here. Y there is a mechanism to do that. Okay. You just haven't seen it yet and your town hasn't adopted that kind of an ordinance yet.

Continuing. Yep. there's a way to do it. And then um I was highly concerned around the if we're going to enforce or require a business owner to repave or that is very expensive. I can tell you that I do a lot of that in food lines and uh of course we may have a little bigger area of uh asphalt but uh any any type of asphalt asphalt work is very expensive. So I don't know how we can go about that. And then I don't know how we apply that to say at what point do we say well you need to do something that's part of

yeah it's it's it's it would yeah I I see your point. We're not going to make everybody repave. Uh but I would tell you that there's probably three degrees and you know this if you work you know in big shopping centers you know there's slurry seal that's kind of the lowcost easy way it you know basically it turns all your asphalt black instantly and you put white lines on it. The next level is what they call a grind and replace where they come and they grind off the top level, put a new level on, and then there's the full monty, which is you're going to repave that entire I don't I don't think there's anybody out there that needs to do that. I haven't seen any parking lots out here so terrible that they need to rip up the whole thing and do it. Okay. And then the other question around that would be are we going to require that for front and back or are we just going to do it from a what's visible from a public street or how we would even handle that? All right. The facade application. Um great program. It's been around for a little bit. It's not frequently used. Uh, I think the time I've been here, I've probably seen four businesses use it. Um, I did touch base with Melody Town Hall and she states that we've only budgeted for 10,000. So, very curious of what interest we can gain from it. I know the business committee has pushed it and communicated that to the business community uh quite often. So, it's either they don't want to improve or they want don't want to use the 50-50 split. Uh but if we are going to ramp this up, it may be a good item to put in the budget to say, "Hey, we may need to up this or council can always allocate it in a different way during the year as well."

Agreed. And then you also stated um the town will maintain a list and provide information on available state, federal, and private towns and grant programs for commercial property improvements. Is that already happening? Oh, we don't do that now. Okay. So uh my question is who's what department is maintaining that list and should we include that in here or is that just the standard y'all will create?

That's an SOP that's standard operating procedure that the department would have a list of you know the department of commerce and different the different agencies at state and federal level that could help you know it's basically here's a list if you want to get money to do this work. Here's a list. We're not going to we're not going to monitor them going after the money. We're just going to provide them with the information. It's up to the applicant to pursue. Yeah. So your state and PBNZ would not be creating.

We would be a we would be creating that list of some notes. Uh why not set one time frame? I don't believe it would be fair to allow one person 30 days and uh others extended time frames. Regular design overlay allowed 60 days. So I think in here upon finding a non-compliance, the property owner shall be issued a notice with a specific time frame for correction. So that's leaving an interpreted and it could be because this may take just a little bit of time to get corrected and y'all give them a certain time frame. But I don't again I don't like the uneven

I know you're but that's one of the things you just got to trust the staff on. If this guy's repaving his parking lot, putting up a new sign, putting up a hedge, and refacing his building, I'm not going to give him the same timeline as I'm giving you because all you have to do is just slurry seal your parking lot. I mean, you've got to give the you've got to give us some discretion because we because one size doesn't fit all, right? You you just can't do it that way. You can't say everybody has a year. Well, I'm not going to give somebody a year to slurry seal and then the guy next door is putting in 15, you know, $50,000 worth of improvements. I think I think you've got to trust your staff on that. And it's got it's just got to be just good sense. I mean, just common sense. Uh, you know, that's the way it's kind of worked out here in the last, you know, three months I've been here is that we give them an appropriate amount of time based on what we assume the amount of work is going to be. Uh, you know, we could be real, you know, we could be real hard. Go, yeah, you got 15 days to do it. Is that the kind of business friendly approach we want to take with our business?

Absolutely not. Fairness is my game. Fairness is it's got to be fair, but it's going to be have to be somewhat discretionary. All right. Um, how is higher penalties determined? And does 100 fine, $100 fine conflict with the other part, chapter 17, chapter one? Um, my my concern is in chapter 17 it states all offenses are misdemeanors. Yeah. So, if we're coming in as infraction for $100 and it's not classified as misdemeanor, how does that conflict? It should be the same as what the rest of the code is. That's all I'm going to tell you. It shouldn't be any different. Okay?

We have to stay consistent. We're going to have a if we're going to have a a section in this chapter 17 that says what the fines are. I'm not going to be rewriting the fine book for you. I don't think you want to do. And then uh also it states this ordinance shall take effect immediately after its passage and adoption. Um I put should we allow time to notify property owners and tenants of the changes. At this point 13 years we have designer. I fully understand that we're going to implement it and we'll see some changes. But my issue is it becomes law then. So law I'm a stickler for law unfortunately. And if it states that we're implementing this what needs to happen and we're given from that point on every business in town should comply with this ordinance.

Dusty, I don't think you understand something very basic. It doesn't apply to everybody in the in the in the corridor because not every property is changing ownership. It only applies to people changing ownership. So on day one, yes, it's going to go into effect because day two, somebody's coming in to do an ownership change. I want to snag them in the process. It doesn't just it doesn't just sort of go down the quarter and everybody suddenly has to apply. So when the people get this return receipt letter, it's going to be very clear. If you're not changing ownership, this doesn't really apply to you. I mean, it's not going to be that straightforward, but I'll say something. If you're not planning on changing ownership, following ordinance doesn't apply to you. However, if you're thinking of changing ownership in the next 5 years, you might want to come to the public hearing or send a letter to the county council and tell them what your feelings are. But on on adoption, there's not going to be there's not going to be a snowfall. There's not going to be an ice storm out here. It's not going to happen. It may be we pass the ordinance on February 1st and the first time we get to implement the ordinance is April 15th because somebody comes in and they you know they're doing something some change of motion. So I don't want you to be

my notes were based off the gradual plan. So therefore I thought that it was stating that every commercial business needed but now we've intent we've changed the intent on a year today. So that's where my notes come from. So that's that's why that question was asked. All right. No, I kind of I would never do it on the next day. We were doing

and then uh of course section 8 appeals was left off. Um I do know you mentioned last time last meeting that you stated that um if you don't like a staff decision, we uh we allow folks to appeal it. Well, I have issue with that. So the appeal process is you have to appeal as a decision of staff in 15 days. Do you think I know what you do in 15 days? the the appeal has to be submitted in 15 days. 15 days. Yeah.

So if you don't you know you you meet once a month the um the appeal only has to be brought in 15 days. The appeal doesn't have to be decided in 15 days. So let's say tomorrow somebody bring let's say I make a decision. I made a decision last week. Tomorrow the person decides they don't like my decision. They appeal my decision tomorrow. It's within let's say it's within the 15 days that I made the decision. it goes on your next your next agenda.

It would be the PBZ board. But what I'm stating is the 15 days. I don't know what you're going to do in the previous 15 days. If I'm not the person asking for an application, I don't know if I can appeal your decision based on um if you made a decision, I'm not going to know what you did in 15 days. So when you say yes, no, you're not going to know until you see the appeal on your on your agenda before you at at the planning commission. Yeah. All of my decisions are appealable to you. Everything I decide on is appealable to you all. Okay? And if they don't like your decision, they're going to go to the council. That's the way the that's the way the the order happens.

The appeals go to the board of of appeals, not us. They go to the BZA. They go BZA here. Yes. All the appeals go to the BCA.

We need to change that. The BZA is a quasi judicial body. Okay. They don't how going to decide what you know you deal with planning every month. Zoning board of appeals deals with variances and special uses. That's really their state charge. Their state charge is does not include hearing complaints about the planning director's decision. Nine out of I will I'll go further. 10 out of 10 communities in the state of South Carolina. You are the appeal body of my decision. The only appeals that come to us is chapter 15.

So something you could definitely look into, but that that is the process. We need to change that. Do you want to go ahead? I'll wait to your question.

Um, and then that that's kind of concerning to me because I mean, if you're offering that as an option, and not to say I want to trust I want to trust you, I I want you to implement it and do all that you do. And I'm I will tell you right here, we've had an ordinance for 13 years. We've not did anything with that 13 years. So, I'd rather have something than nothing. And I'm full agreeance with this area. I know you are. Um but uh if anything uh it's better or nothing, but I always want to treat the ordinance in a fairness way. I don't want one person's no special than the other. That's correct. And uh that's that's the issue I've had. And you state that we've not did anything and we can be interpreted and you've heard Alex's mentioning around ordinances not being implemented or enforce. We did create it ourselves. So, uh, if 13 years ago we went from the implementation of that ordinance and we said, "Hey, this, this, and this, Highway 17 will probably be beautified by now." So, um, if we don't do that here and do it consistent and fair, you have another

I don't we're not going to be anywhere. Exactly. But you have another shot here. Y finished. Mar

I just submit that we have not been in a position of being able to trust staff's decision to be fair for a very long time and I believe we should give this new planning building director and his new staff a chance to make those decisions. We don't like what we see then we can revisit it. suggestion to to to planning commission is um you all know what the you all know what the zoning board of appeals does. You all know what you do. You know what my decisions most of the time are those generally I I I can't give anybody a variance and I can't give anybody a special use. That's their job and I'm a big person on stay in their swim lane. BZA should not be hearing appeals of my decisions. That's you ought. You ought to be hearing the decisions of the community at my decisions.

Um I don't I don't I don't I I will talk to the administrator and find out if we've had any appeals of the director's decisions. Does he have because I'd love to hear what their findings were because they need to make findings. It's a quasi judicial body. They have to make four findings and they have to publish those findings. my vet hasn't happened. Hasn't happened. And this is where the trust factor comes in. That's exactly right. That's where the trust factor comes in. So yeah, let me let me do a little homework on that. I appreciate

I'll come back to you with a at least a verbal recommendation if not a staff report. But uh yeah, that's something you might want to think about changing. I think the council needs to hear that, too. and I appreciate your work and I I do uh don't don't think that I don't trust you because uh I punch you up pretty well and I do trust you but you got to realize where we've come from with the 14 years and it's not just design overlay you mentioned there's a lot of things I know I know we've had that conversation I appreciate it thank you any other questions

Melanie number two number one high five on the BCA I mean on the appeals thing. Yeah, that way we need to do deal with that.

Um, number two, I really do understand where all of the concern about fairness comes in. I I've been living it. I understand it. I've actually had a little piece of it and appropriately served my way. Um, however, I do think when it's appropriately applied, discretion on his part or on the on that department's part can create fairness. And I I firmly believe that. I think we need to give our director that leeway. Um, if he's not doing his job appropriate appropriately, it's not us up to us to say that. It's the administrator and the council. If he's playing, you know, favorites to someone and someone is complaining about that and can prove it, it's their job to

say, "Hey, director, get your crap together cuz we're not putting up with that." That's not what our town's about. But I think that that I um I think I hope that we will give him on our parts at least encourage council and the administrator to give them some leeway to do his job so that we can see things get better, improve. Um, and just a couple of notes, you talked about whether the facade grant is currently funding, how much I think maybe we need to talk about that a little bit and if you know if council feels like the overlay situation is really important. Maybe next year they will say, "Hey, we can put a little bit of money into funding the facade grant a little bit better." I don't know, but that's a another discussion. Um, now they they can't pull money from just everywhere either. So, you know, there's only so much money to go around.

There's no money. Yep. Um, rubs or whatever the, you know, whatever we use, be it artificial or alive, will there be should there be verbiage concerning the maintenance of those things? And so, if the sun beats down on it 15 years from now and it looks like terrible again. Is there a mitigation? I mean, do we need to put something in there for that? That's just a thought. I need to research our current property maintenance code to see if that would trigger that code, but if it not, we need to put it in that.

Okay. And that again, just a thought. And also the, you know, if a car is in the parking lot and goes forward too far and destroys it, is there, you know, there's all kinds of things that can and will happen. Yeah, I know. So, what what is are we going to have something in there that mitigates those problems? Um, sorry. Give me just one second. Oh, I We talked we're talking about the ownership thing and and how to that's we've talked about that for a long time at different points and really never gotten anywhere.

But I mean that might require a whole meeting in and of itself to figure out you know with the just to figure out what we need to do and how's the best way to and I will tell you we need people in the room smarter than and absolutely I need help on that. I really do. And so we might, you know, maybe we pull in a couple of, you know, the whoever we need to pull in to have them in the meeting to ask questions and say, well, if we do this, what happens, you know, what all kinds of things can happen within a within an LLC to, you know, so many things

which so that might be a meeting in and of itself. Um and and you you know you were talking and this is a kind of aside a little bit. You were talking about a resolution paper earlier and there I think I think one of your predecessors did have what they called an issue paper that was somewhat similar. Wasn't called a resolution but it was called an issue paper. Two different things.

Okay. Usually professional staff prepares a a staff report that sort of gives you the background of the project, the details of the project and the alternatives at the end. Basically, what are the planning conditions alternatives here? You can, you can agree, you can agree to change it, you can deny it. That's a staff report. Okay? Every staff report that goes to council for an ordinance change should be accompanied by a resolution that is signed by members of by sign basically by the chairman

before it goes to council. That way council knows they've got an official piece of paper in front of them that's a past resolution council. I don't know any other way and I don't know how you've done it in the past, but that's the correct way to do it. That your st my staff report needs to have your resolution literally attached to it with I call it wet signature on it. That goes to uh that will then go to your clerk. The clerk then puts together the package for the council and that goes to council. That way council can look at my staff report and say, "Okay, great. Mark did a staff report. How' the planning commission feel about it?" Boom. there is a resolution. That's the way it's supposed to have happened.

I think that fixes Scott's uh frustration last meeting and will call and say, "Hey, it may have been modified before it gets council because if I'm signing it, it's going to the intent of that ordinance is going to be matching what the commission approved." Exactly. Absolutely. I agree with that. Thank you. Yeah. You're welcome.

All right. Any other questions? Well, um Mark, I appreciate your work on this. Hopefully you could take this um if we're available we can possibly do a special meeting and go ahead and uh work on this a little more if you're available and have time to create the new draft from these this information and um I do have notes so I will send the minute minutes to you and Angie right after the meeting and that'll probably help you and guide you as well. So, so you will workshop. You do have Can you put a meeting aside for a workshop? You do have that ability. Yep. You have some absent time coming up. I'm going to be gone next week. Yeah. Let's No, let's factor that in. Yep.

All right. Any other questions before we move on? All right. Thanks for everyone's conversation. We'll move on to public comments. Good evening. I came here tonight to apologize to you all, but Bill King, 1312 North Dogwood. Thank you, sir.

Um, I tried to pull something together to help the people campaigning because one of the pains of campaigning is have your signs disappear. You have nothing to do with. You put it where they're supposed to be. Somebody comes mows it, mows the grass, and gets moved. So, uh, Dusty pointed out that, uh, corrected me and I just told him I disagreed because I didn't go into detail. Frankly, I think the campaign size because it's a town sponsored event should have special situations. But when I wrote to council explaining what I wanted to do, I ended up saying, "What I really want to do is to have the code enforcement continue to not do what he's not been doing." If you think about it, if you drive around town, I bet there's probably at least six signs from one contractor in a rideway. They're on 4x4 post. There's multiple. coming over here, I passed free signs. They're in the rightway and they're not campaign signs. And and then uh after thinking about it later, I said, I don't even know why we have the ordinance that we have, it says it has to be 10 ft away. We allow you to put shrubs 3 feet from the sides. Uh you can put a fence three feet and you can put these big boulders three feet from the road. I think that's in chapter 12. What why do we have restricting all the signs in the residential areas? I'm not talking about Highway 17. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about a residential areas. Now, I just when you get time, look at it. That's that's all I I'm I'm going to ask. And then the other thing is I'm not

sure I want to see two miles of hedges. I'd like to see something else. edges are good, but if you look at the DQ, they've got palm trees and and low palms. They're not palm trees, but they're some kind of palms. Um, you have a mixed use at the uh doctor's office. Um, bank across the street has all trees. I mean, I'd like to see a mixture, not just cookie cutter all the way down two mile long. So, think about that as you go along. I I really appreciate the hard work you all put in and thank you very much.

Thank you, sir. Any other public comments? All right. With none, uh we'll move on to uh commission comments. Alex Melody

Scott. Uh I just like the idea of resultsoriented legislation and ordinances. Um you know trying to think what do we want and I think we're heading in the right direction and I want to thank Mr. Broader. Is that how you pronounce it? Sorry sounds French broer but um thank you for your hard work and your experience. um really have given me personally a sense of um ease that you know you have somebody with integrity who has experience and you know I can't judge a person's heart but it seems like your heart is in the right place um and I think you know as a commission you know our heart is that we want to see Surfside as great as possible and Um, and you know, we don't we don't want selective enforcement. And I do understand, and this is something, you know, I've had personal conversations that, you know, I I kind of tend to disagree with the world view of, well, this is the law and you follow it or you're going to go to hell or whatever. But I understand I think the point is that you don't want to pick favorites. You know, you don't want to be good to your buddies and then the guy right next to has to follow every single law. And so, um, having a little discretion because every situation it's not cookie cutter and there's so many variables and so to have a PNZ director that we can trust to um differentiate and take those

variables and and make a fair and right decision so that it is more fair that way. um and you know finding a balance of we we have to write these ordinances in in the way that you know there's not too much ambiguity but we do need to give a little bit of levity to what um you can do. So that's all I have to say. Thank you and thank you for all the time that you're and you're new at this. So um hopefully things will you know you'll get used to everything and things will get smoother as things go. So thank you for your efforts. I have uh two small comments. Number one is uh when's our next meeting? Uh it should be on election day and we I will be working in this room as uh the clerk for this precinct. So, we need to have a meeting at another time.

I sent that email earlier and it should be November 8th, I believe. Oh, I didn't see that. That was this afternoon. It should be in your town email.

Okay. I haven't checked it this afternoon. The other thing is I I did serve on the board of zoning appeals for a few years and I do not remember ever having anything but variances uh discussed in in those things. nothing that dealt with appealing your decision because your decision was to follow what the you know what the zoning said and if they wanted to do something that was outside that the zoning they had to go through board of zoning appeals to get it and I do remember a few times approving it but many times denying it so uh for those of you who haven't served before the board of zoning appeals is a fun one to Yes, that's all I have to say.

All right. Thank you, Larry. Um, and I'll finish up. Try to be quick here, but um, I appreciate, uh, Mr. King's public comments. Uh, I definitely appreciate appreciate you around Highway 17. You're pretty much the only councilman that I remember even even offering a solution with using parking funds or anything like that. So, absolutely appreciate your involvement and attention to that. Um the comments on the sign ordinances unfortunately as a planning commission our duties is to uphold the enacted laws that we have. We cannot just selectively say let's place a sign here. We can't selectively release the town from being not complying to the same standards that you comply to the residents. Also, I mentioned there's a lot of signage in our public rideways right now that the town utilizes that areformational or educational pieces which is not even authorized by our ordinances. Uh public the public entity can only place signage that is public safety involved. So all this educational banners and everything is totally against our sign ordinance. Um another element I would say I wasn't against the proposal for uh allowing campaign signs. Uh, I understand where we selectly enforce ordinances. Uh, I could possibly right now go out and put a huge sign in a rideway anywhere and the town take it down. And that's selective enforcement because everywhere in town, we don't enforce it anyways. So, if they took my sign down, that would probably not be a good thing. I'm not going to do that. But that's where selective enforcement comes to be an issue because we can't allow one person to do something and another person not to be able to do it. Um, I understand the intent. think it was a great intent. Uh I don't want my signs mowed down and I don't want other people's signs mowed down. Um but we had to follow proper procedure with that and proper procedure would go through chapter 17 for amendments and amendments and moratoriums or whatever. Still requires

action by multiple different procedures and fully agree we need to address the sign ordinance. I've have mentioned that over the last three years. Uh I'm sure that is on uh Mark's agenda at some point. uh he made a priority on the design over and I appreciate that. Uh but there's a lot of gaps inside design or ordinance as well. That's pretty much all I got. Thank y'all. Thanks for coming out. So we get a motion to adjurnn. So move. Scott made a motion to adjurnn. Can I second? Alex seconded. Uh any discussion? Everyone in agreement say I. I. Anyone opposed say nay. Armenian