Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

Already like they definitely want to I see. 6:30. We'd like to call meeting to order with the pledge to the flag, please. the United States of America and to the republic which stands on this fall. Uh, first on our agenda is the approval of last month's actually August approval of the minutes for the planning commission. Have a motion. Make a move that we accept the minutes as provided for the August meeting.

Second discussion. All in favor? I. Yeah. Thanks. [Music]

The name of the Avenger. Next on our agenda, actually we're going to Was there any correspondence any? No. We're going to switch the agenda of uh what's fourth. We're going to move the 10th and the 11 the southern tier tire uh mark at the pilot. We're going to switch that, but we're going to have that now. Who's here representing So, it's your time. Okay. Hey guys, how's it going? Good. Can you hear me?

Yes.

Hi everyone. Uh, my name is uh Tom Kadelhan. I'm a civil engineer at Kinley Horn and the engineer of record for the Southern Tire Mart um in Summit Township. I'm here with Trent Rhodess who is a representative for the developer um for travel services realy. Um so we'll be here um to answer any questions you might have. Um I thought first I could probably just dive into the project um go through the site plan couple of highle um items and then uh we can take it to uh any questions or or comments following that. Okay. Are you guys able to see the screen?

Yes, we can see the screen.

Okay, great. Um, so the Erie Southern Tower project, it's located at 8055 Perry Highway um in Erie. So, here's just a um a Google Maps overview of the project location. Um as you can see, we have the Prescy uh casino to the east. Um we have I90 right here in the pilot travel center um to the north of our project. And our subject project is actually right here in this development uh which is combination of this impervious area here and um these existing buildings and green space uh right next to it. So this is the uh proposed site plan for the southern tartar. It is a approximately 13,000 square foot um an automobile service facility uh which will be mostly used for or actually only used for uh large truck maintenance. Um if we zoom in on the building um as you can see uh it's a 12,828 foot building. There are five service bays located on this building uh for truck maintenance. Um on the front of the building, you can see we have some associated parking for employees as well as an entryway to the building. Um on the side here, we have additional parking for employees um as well as our electric utilities. And then in the rear of the building is where we have a dumpster enclosure right in the middle uh as well as the entrance to the five service bays for the larger trucks. Um so the the use of this site in terms of traffic will again the majority of it

will be for larger tractor trail vehicles. Um that's why this this driveway is a little wider um than typical uh so we can we can make sure that the turning movements into this site can uh comply with those with those larger trucks. Um the only passenger vehicles that will really be utilizing this site will be the employees on site um which are about six per shift um at at maximum. A brief overview of the grading and drainage for this project. Um so the the runoff from the building and from the access drive uh all the impervious that we're proposing on site will be conveying to a proposed infiltration basin uh right next to the access road. Um, this basin will ultimately discharge uh plan west into uh Walnut Creek right here. So, there's a there's an existing inlet um on this existing drive that we'll be tying into um that discharges directly into the creek. A quick overview on utilities for the project. So we will be utilizing storm um or sorry sanitary water gas um telecom and electric um on the sanitary and water front will be tying into there's an existing water line and an existing sanitary line um both separate on uh the plan west side of the project that kind of follows Walnut Creek. Um, so we'll be looking at tie in um along this side of the property. Uh, for gas,

telecom, and electric, we will be anticipating to tie um into Perry Highway for those utilities. Uh, a couple other items with the project. Uh, we have provided a green space plan uh for this project. So, we will be utilizing a combination of trees and shrubs um to follow the perimeter of the property. Um so, as you can see here, we have uh kind of a tree and shrub combination uh to go around the property here. Um as well as in front of the property. Um, additionally, we also have a 5-ft sidewalk that we'll be incorporating along the property frontage um, per ordinance requirements. A couple of notes regarding some previous meetings about this project. So, we we did have a um a zoning variance hearing for this project for parking spaces. Um so that's why we show a total of 10 parking spaces here instead of um what's required is 33. Um we got variance relief back I believe that was in February. Um and then I guess beyond that um just some updates with how we're doing with other agencies in the area. Um, we have a PennDOT application uh that is currently under review. We received one comment from PennDOT. Uh, they just want to see a completed storm water report uh before issuing an HOP. Um, so as soon as we have a an approved storm water report, we'll be sending that their way. Um, we are currently under technical review with Erie County Conservation

District. Um, so we should be expecting comments within a week or two. Um, we've been working pretty closely with Tom at the district uh to make sure we're we're addressing all of his needs. Um, we're working with uh Summit Township Sewer Authority uh with Bill um in regards to sanitary um tapping fees and capacity. And then we're also working on our applications with um Penelch and natural fuel gas uh for those utility tie-ins as well. Um so that's pretty high level um status and overview of the project. Um here to answer any questions or um go through the latest comment letter um whatever you guys would like to do.

I had uh one quick question for you about flow. Well, actually, I got two questions, but uh traffic clos is is generally in on State Road 97 and then do you take would the trucks take that route to the right of that uh building itself and then come in through the back? Is that the way this works or do they come in through the front? Yeah. So the way we have um we have a truck turning plan um I don't have it in this set per se, but the circulation will essentially be trucks will enter Perry this this new entrance on Perry Highway. Um they'll come around, come through the bay, and then we're we're looking at the trucks exiting through this driveway apron here and utilizing this existing driveway within Perry Highway to uh to leave the site.

Okay. All right. The other concern I had and perhaps Matt or Matt um is is there a historically is there concern about uh storm water runoff in that area? Was there a you know coming down off the adjacent roads in the neighborhoods? Was that a critical uh was there an infiltration problem there at one time?

Infiltration's always hit or miss in in Summit Township. Um, I know Dollar General down the road at one point claimed they had infiltration, but whenever they went put it in, they didn't. Um, I think they're they had a poopy test over top of a septic tank and it it threw them off. Uh, these folks did numerous infiltration tests. They don't have a high infiltration rate, but they do have an infiltration rate. Um, but this area is prone to flooding. As as many of you know, there's been number of times where 97's completely underwater in that area and they have taken that into account with their storm water design as well.

Okay, that's why it looked quite elaborate. You know, we kind of stay out of storm water management anyway, but I just thought I'd ask the question because yeah, it's not your typical storm water plan. It was more more involved and I I have through the process. Okay. All right. That's that's all I have. Does there have to be some kind of an agreement with pilot to have that X-ray peck fitting under that driveway? The driveway is on on their property. So Oh, it is.

And I think there is there there is an easement agreement with it cuz way long time ago that was Langden Road and the township turned it over to Pilot and and there's like a private easement there. Any other questions on the board?

Call for motion. I'll make a motion that we approve the plan as accepted with the understanding that there are still outstanding uh permissions etc that the uh developer has to have. So other than that, this is just for the land, right? You're right. Just for the land. Thanks. So I'll make the motion. I need a second. I'll second it. Discussion. All in favor?

Motion to carry. Thank you. Now next on the agenda is the water urban air green spam green space for the same property. Thank you very much everyone for your time. Not done yet. Oh sorry together. Got it. continue or green space. Is this an alternate alternate?

Is it is an alternate and it's an alternate buying? It's an alternate because of the existing driveway. They can't run it along the the perimeter of the property. But essentially, if you made the driveway the perimeter, it meets the the green space ordinance. So that was the only exception. Correct. Straight forward. Any other questions? Call for motion. Motion as presented. I'll second discussion. All in favor? I thank you.

Okay. Thanks, Tom. We're going to go ahead and leave the meeting now. All right. Thank you so much, everyone. Have a great night. Now, next on our agenda is Robin Leot. Are you under? Yeah. You need to come up right now. You're just

Yeah, we're we're just uh to divide an existing parcel and we're splitting that in two. Ron is um adding portion of that to his existing parcel and I'm adding a portion of that to my existing parcel with the home. pretty straightforward. Yeah, it is.

Questions from the board. Need a call for motion? We make a motion to accept. Motion is presented. Seconded. Any discussion? All in favor? I I motion carries. Thank you. Next on our agenda is to express amended land development plan for Yeah.

Hi, my name is Kevin Far uh with David Leair Associates and I am here to help answer any questions you might have. Basically, it's just he's constructing a 4600 square foot building over top of uh existing pavement um and tying the down spouts into an existing storm water facility.

Of course, it's already Yeah. So, sorry. Yes. straightforward. I know. There's no parking spaces aren't changing or anything like that, right?

No. was mainly just used for storage and wasn't able to deline any parking back there for a truck in there out there. That's exactly fire truck or there's nothing parked back. Yeah, there's enough room for fire truck, but there's no parking. There's going to be no parking in this side. Oh, there there is some parking there, but even with it, there's room for a fire truck. I mean, it's

maybe parked to the side. So, I guess, you know, we don't really have parking spaces back there, but now and then I'll see somebody park there. looking at it. Um, just going by the the park installs, there's probably 20 plus feet of roof behind

and the ordinance requirement for a building this size only 50% perimeter. So questions the board need call for a motion. I'll make a motion to approve the plans as presented. Second. Discussion. All in favor? I I

Thank you. Sorry. Yeah, I'm still here. which are very similar. Uh he's looking to construct a 3500 foot building edition over top of existing pavement. Use the same drawing. Uh no, different site, but Oh, okay. I think this one we were removing slightly some parking. Um six of them. Yeah. So, do we need to

rec they did redo the the parking tabulations. they're well within the the range that's acceptable. So, uh if you recall with the new zoning ordinance, the parking requirements aren't as intense as they were before. So, usually people have more parking than what's required now. Any concerns with lighting or anything? We've been through that. I don't I don't I don't think they proposed any lighting. No, there's no additional lighting. There's like on the back of the current building there's a wall pack you know that with just like the and that would be moved to the back of the new

you know there's a camera on the back which will be moved the new rear of the pole lighting and we have about a half mile to the back until you reach the next house. So I have a question. Is these are these buildings going to be used for mechanical work, car washing or just uh I believe they there was some intent for car wash mechanical mechanical and that that this proposed building there would be a wash bay that so we could wash our own cars cuz right now

that facility is using the power sports garage to wash the cars for sale. Um, and it works, but this would be more convenient to make a baby at that location to to wash. Okay. Any other question? Call for a motion. I'll make a motion. Second. I'll second the motion. Discussion. All in favor? I Thank you. Appreciate it. Thanks. That was really

Hi, good evening.

Hi, Mike Sanford, 4721 Atlantic. And uh Dominic Molino's with me tonight. If you have any questions I can't answer, but basically this is a preliminary plan. Uh Hammet Village started a long time ago. phase one got built and then it stalled out. Though Dominic is interested in purchasing the remainder of the property from Mr. Mrs. Curts and would like to do 44 lots, buildable lots and then two uh pawn lots, so 46 lots total, 44 for home. He would like to do two f two final phases, phase two and three. We put that on the plan. So, this is a preliminary plan just to make sure that the board's okay with our overall layout and then we'll move on with final planning later. Just a few things, just run down a quick list here. Uh, lots will be served of course by public sewer and public water. Uh, there are three small wetland areas on the on the project. They're shown on the plan, but uh we don't anticipate them being impacted by any development. Um we do of course the roads be proposed public roads some of township roads uh there are some options whether they're curved rolled curved or uncurbed or choosing the uncurbed road that would be our preference for this uh public sidewalks are proposed street lights are proposed and uh engineer Jonas had some review comments which I attended to uh all the lots now comply with your square footage both the normal lots and the corner lots we did uh provide some road roadway planning profiles as required. Uh he had a couple comments on those and we talked on the phone and I made that revision. Uh we did I talked to uh supervisor Wela the roadmaster about the shape of the culdeac and the way they plow and I now understand it stands a little bit better. So we switched the culde-sac to accommodate the way the plow actually dumps the snow off. So I think this is a better plan from that as well. I did talk to Bill Stef at the sewer authority

and the sewage planning for this is already done. It was actually done like 20 years ago with phase one and sewage planning modules don't expire. So Bill said we don't need to do any new sewage planning. So that's already in place and like I mentioned this is a preliminary plan after we receive approvals from the supervisor. We're going to start our work right away on the final planning which will be storm water NPDES sanitary water grading drainage. Uh, and Matt had a couple of comments u that I'll get to in the final plan about tying all the down spouts in so we don't have issues neighbor to neighbor and also there's just to make sure we accommodate the drainage coming off of saddlewood properly and we get it through this development on its way further north. So

yeah because you do have some density I mean it's not absolute density but with density you know you can get run you got a lot of curves. Yep. I mean you guys don't handle that so far. Yep. Exactly. here tonight to answer any questions. Like I said, Dominic's here if you have any questions for him. A crowned road, if that's what you're proposing, how do you address the water going off the road and then to the from the lot? Essentially, we're going to have to have some type of swale on each side of the road. You're going to have a crown road. It's going to drain down, but the the W section has fallen out of favor. So that's so we're not keeping the water on the road anymore. And if we don't have curbs, that means the water's got to get off the road. And really you're going to have small swailes.

So you're between the sidewalk and the river. Correct. You'd have a small swale. So how do you address that between lots because you'd have a driveway that now you have a driveway blocking that. We swail the driveways. I know that sounds crazy, but they swell the driveways down and let the water. Of course, every so often, every couple 300 feet, you have a catch basin, but still the driveways would have to be swailed. Well, yeah. So it won't be straighted. No. dip down. Yeah, if if the lot sat high enough, you can sometimes squeak a pipe under the driveway, but I just I think we're going to be swinging the driveways.

I I don't know. I I can't see anything else in here. I'm trying to think. We were sitting around looking at this and I was thinking, man, it' be nice if we had more than one exit entrance, but you know, it's the old but I I understand that it's wasted all There questions or concerns at the board.

This is preliminary, right? So you're not motion. I I thought we do. Do we vote on preliminary? My conclusion that we approve the plan as presented with theation that this is not client plan. This is a preliminary plan. Yes. I have a question on any of the storm water or any of the catch basic basins fencing is it any just open land for the kids to play or

Well, we don't know yet. And what I mean by that is we need to start doing some test pits. Uh conservation district step one you got to do test pits. You got to figure out whether your property infiltrates or not. If it infiltrates then we could make these two basins infiltration basins which means they'll be dry unless it rains. Now there are some wetlands out there. So sometimes you just don't get the infiltration. So we have to decide if it's an infiltration basin, if it's a rain garden or if it's like a wet pond. and we just simply don't know that right now without getting the test pits done. One of those three if it goes down the road of a wet pond. Summit's one of the few townships that does have a fencing requirement. Um so we we'd have to discuss that at the final plan.

And there sidewalks. So there'd be sidewalks along the storm water sides. Yes. Uh when engineer Jonas and I spoke, he the expectation is 5 foot sidewalks on both sides of the street.

And Tammy, could I ask do can we record the preliminary or you don't record? You don't record. We still have fiveyear protection from the from the supervisor's approval. Okay, gotcha. And would you would your board sign the plan then? Okay. Then I'll take it down to Erie County Planning. Okay. So my motion still standing. Yes. I was a little pre

anywhere question. Take it easy.

Thank you all very much. Home. All right. I think I'm representing this one tonight.

Yes. So, uh, the Lyans own both all the parcels on this land land. Uh, so they have the the large 50 acre plus lot. I might be off on my numbers, but maybe I'm wrong. uh but they purchased the lot on the corner and what they're looking to do is use their their main parcel and do a re-plot on the corner lot to bring that up to about 2 acres and then divide their residual lot into two lots along Lab Creek using Lab Creek as property plan. Um not typical but perfectly legal. So as Lab Creek changes the property line would change as well. So they have sewage existing septics on lots one and parcel A. And then the lot two that they're creating, they're going to use the the nonbuild lot. It's currently used as farmland and it'll continue to be used as farmland after the subdivision. That's interesting. Do I have to send?

Oh, um, no. Well, it might start family. Yeah. Well, no. Okay. Thank you.

I'll make a motion to approve. I'll second discussion. All in favor? I motion carried. Take us uh now to the Allen Road subdivision. Somebody had to be last.

Any consolation paying light? Yeah.

Okay. Um yeah, our purpose here is to create a 2acre just a hair over uh parcel. Uh it's yeah, this is the parcel to be created. Parent parcel right now go right around here. So we're cutting off this corner. Um, in order to get septic approval, there's a proposed Ursus site uh right there and that will be covered with an easement uh in favor of partial A for the uh installation and and maintenance of the uh septic site there for sewage disposal. the ex the only comment I had from the engineer was the existing well and that services the existing residence there and that's about right there um straight out from the house straight out from from the from the garage there's an existing well there uh existing sand mound there for that serves this this house too um

or sand supposed to be property a minimum of 10 ft eat. Okay. Was that convolute things with having that septic site kind of site? the proposed it was their best option as far as the the the the parent retaining the you know as much property as he wanted to retain it or really

I mean it's it I should say use it but it's it's not theirs right right it changes that's a good alternative to have your system on somebody else's property yeah that's uh that's a proposed plan at this time anyway. Yeah, I can see that. I mean, it's it's violating there's nothing against the orders, right? No, but it's it's I can't see that that Mhm. it it is a burden to the parent parcel correct

on that. Yeah. And um boy, life changes as it does. Sometimes the things get sold that you know there.

Yeah. Yeah. With the deed I mean and whoever would buy that that you know residue parent or the parent parcel you know it's it's kneesman. It's on there they'll be well aware of what they're they have there hopefully in that situation. Yeah. Yeah, there's something I can't see other than that the eyebrow raiser there where it's located and that sepic site must plotted for when they were doing the exploring the abilities to put it there.

Yeah. test pits. They have Yeah, I I I'm just showing the success of test pits on there. Um they they tried

it makes sense to have it, but I don't know that you can explain just convolutes future. Well, it's kind of like this elbowing shaped easement, you know, that's kind of difficult to work with, too, from a real estate standpoint. I mean, it's got weird angles and corners and so I don't know what I don't know what you do. I mean, what a build I guess nothing from this point.

I I don't know if we have anything with them to lose it on the lot. They have an easement on it. that makes it legal. But I don't know. My my thought is I'm looking at that I'm like it's already basically going to be their property anyways because the other people can't use it for anything other than allow them to put their should be just too vague. I yeah but I'm not you can't say just thinking I'll I'll pass all along to the client and and once we have the subdivision through

as things change or the foresight there's always option of it's property line repplot yeah which could cover that. I I just look at it from the phone calls we get township and granted there's an easement and they should be aware of it but a lot of times they they aren't real estate and it's not until they go in there and start like oh put my swing set there and then they find all the the muck and we get called and that's when things come to light I have a question what fall as I understand it it's a uh a sand mount.

Not quite a sand mount. There's an infiltration area there and it's a what aation system. It's kind of like a spray a spray spray system. Yeah. So they get it they have like almost like watering your lawn but it's not cleaning water. You're ugly. Yeah. I had to look it up myself. Okay. So that to me uglier down the road. Mhm. Oh, you know I Well, it's a D group plan, right?

D group plan. Yeah. So I guess Right. Right. Exactly. I mean, they're always Hey, then I need everybody's looking at. Wow. Okay. Just out of all the meetings this week, this is going to be the one. I'll make a motion. I'll second it. Thanks, Chris. All in favor? I I

with the reserv I'll give them yours. Well, I mean next on our agenda is uh call for answer plan implementation update ordinance amendment recommendations. show tonight. You have a copy. Yeah. Okay.

So, amen zoning ordinance 2021-2 regarding solar energy system. Everybody have a copy. I'm not going to read it line by line. I've had a chance to look at that. I could get some feedback. Um supervisors believe that with increasing energy demand and interest in the solar energy placement on properties um they felt that we should then take a look at our existing section on solar energy systems. So we added some definitions um and we now have solar energy systems principal and solar energy systems accessory instead of solar energy farm small solar energy. So it kind of cleaned up some of the definitions. Um, we added some more restrictions um with the design standards and we have a minimum block size of 25 acres that wasn't in there before. We have height requirements and our new setback requirements sort of following the zoning orders in that particular district. Um it's minimal 13 150 ft from anywhere but from residential property lines 150 ft from non-residential property lines minimum 100 ft from the road right away um we talk about um impervious coverage um they have to follow the storm water management the township storm water management ordinance. require a fence fence a notch. There's three space requirement

drive 18way and also we added some information on here regarding deep conditioning. How do you monitor that? Right. The in regards to the emission. Yeah. I mean, how do you know that they're things?

But it's one of those things that if you don't put it in, then it's it's an emission. If you do put it in, it's it's at least telling them, look, we know that these are hard to decommission and there's no known economical way of recycling solar panels as of today. So, they're going to have to come up with some they're on notice. In other words, anybody who reaches notice is on is this ordinance is on notice that we're wise to this,

right? They have to be removed 12 months. I mean, It's like the code of work officer noticed a sign that's been up there and he knows they've been out of business for, you know, three years. They need to use that third and I think a solar panel farmer, you know, the system I think that we're going to know where they're at. Sure. Now, there are there's some small accessory units out there right now. Um, there's putting solar panels on roof. Yeah.

Um and there's smaller systems behind some houses. Um but we kind of come up where [Music] we're just trying to be proactive and not put one over in green. I remember that you have to have you have to be close to power distribution or substation. someone's pack with substations and power. So,

it isn't going to be a special exception um in the resources rule as a printable solar energy system and a special exception in the RLD resident low density. So, there's additional requirements that they have to adhere to as well as zoning one, they might add conditions. So if you're in R&D and you want to add solar on the ground, it's a good that's a variance. Is that what I'm um not in low density, you're in medium density, you have to go forward.

So if you had a small unit, I gave you like a structure. Um then get your regular zone. But if you wanted to, you know, could you define the size difference?

Um let's get in here. The brown accessory solar energy system may not exceed the permitted accessory structure. I guess my question is should there be

so if it was a roof or structure in the backyard say maybe like a 20 by 20 are you asking if they should go under?

Yeah. Yeah. I think that would be a section especially if you're we've got the storm water management thing so it's not so right. And the main thing I like I mean the main thing that's driving this is the I guess the uh concern is there is that is that still a house bill or is that a governor sponsored bill going through the legislature about overriding local zoning on solar installation. So in other words we want to come in they control over local zing. Yeah. I mean that's concern. It definitely is.

You don't know about that. There's a Yeah. To to come in and override Yeah. zone with a state law that overrides local zoning. This happens on anything solar on solar. And there's also movement of foot about turning organic or or unused commercial property into housing, multi-unit housing. Well, yeah, it's something like that. So, yeah,

I guess every time you hear Yeah. And I'm not against housing. I mean, I I think I think there is short. I understand all that, but no, we started using all the euphemisms to describe it. I mean, these commercial entities that got off the track are concrete. You know, there's not green space, you know, attached to it or anything like that. Where are all the young people going to go? I mean there's a lot of concern about things like this but with a solar it basically is saying there's a lot of lobbying going on that says you know these local zoning requirements we always have to give the local zoning authority or local township cookie we have to throw them a cookie like we're building a high school gymnasium or something like that and we come in and we're in good straits you know we're we're happy and the locals are happy and uh I I I don't think they want to pay that money out. That's my personal opinion. They don't want to do that. They just want carbon launch from at the state level and say, "Yeah, we only come in, put one way you want to put it." So, and again, I mean, is a proponent of solar power. I am proponent for solar power for the reasons I've stated many, many times. But there's a right way to do it, wrong way to do it. If it's done the wrong way, the people 20 years, 15 years from now are going to be dealing. And there's an existing in my subdivision.

Yeah. And he's had it on a year. So he didn't he was not required for permit of any type. No. Because it's on his structure. Right. Right. He wasn't required to get a zeling permit. However, he was required to get a building permit. What was this guy? I mean, right. Right. [Music] Street about 11 hours. Yeah.

And you know, I don't know how profitable for him. I don't know about it last year. And I kind of watched it a little bit. I learned about just see what kind of issues we had. didn't seem to have any issue. Yeah. Yeah. People that I know I got a neighbor who's got it and they they like it. It's the roof line. The top of the top panel is is slightly more rop.

So that's something to think about as an accessory. Do you think that that we should take through the zone here for the panels and small group? Um because right now there isn't accessory special. So you want to say unless it's not under put on some of it just because all of a sudden now there's not

well we we have wording about storing RVs in front of the residents, right? mean, you know, because if they're behind or to the side and off from the back, then it's a different. Otherwise, if it's front, you're on a 90-day clock from what I understand. So, if we suggested that already, what about these ground mounted installations that'll end up in front yards? Is that

Well, it's still a structure that's required. They still have to adhere to the front yard back district. And as far as a residential accessory structure to a roof, I mean there's we're we're talking about we talk about this abundant zoning right. We're talking about two different districts RLD but you R&D couple on your way. This is saying that pretty much it's not allowable, right? So is that are you going to allow I think that we should allow at least you know R&D

zoning zoning hearing or a variance is that what you're saying the variance process or just or include R&D with our well I'm saying I think that that we need to come up with a dimension square feet of we're talking about accessories more than you know 200 square feet I think you have to define that yeah so like for example like I don't issue zoning permits for a shed that's less than 100 ft. There you go. That's that' be the press. So panel, but what is the name? But you still have to get a set. Do you know what I mean? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Like we would solar panels that actually have the same

4T 4T by two. Does that sound right? And one No, those are square. I say 4T by two. So you got eight per panel. You're going to put up an average installation probably what 25 30 panels or something like that. or you can be specific and say roof structures are exempt from

I like that. I I personally like that one because it's going to go on the roof. I mean they've already got and it's not going to accept it's not going to impact any storm water management calculation or anything up there. So I think if it's on the roof it should be okay if it goes on the ground. Even if it goes on the roof, they got to get a building. So if it goes on the ground, then maybe there should be a square foot. Is that Are we knocking on the right door here?

The economics of the economics don't match. Yeah. The people that are putting in these farms have somehow done the math farms or individually. I guess they're not talking about a house. the neighborhood. He spent $30 some thousand on it. This was three or four years ago or longer. He put that paid his electric bill. I know what's how in the world you're going to get d one back. Yeah. Not to mention time value.

Yeah. Yeah. So roofed. Um, would you agree that they could still be exempt from zoning but would require building? Yeah. And are you saying for residential or commercial? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we're doing it for residential, we do it for commercial. And Oh, yeah. Yeah. You talk about history versions of flattery. I don't know if that makes things sustain.

You go out eat Boston, they're all right. And that would lose that calculation. Yeah, but how do you add that into Well, one point it says cannot cannot be panels cannot be from the ground but I don't remember everything in here. Okay. So, we're at the ground.

So, what would be like this? It was a small structure today. I wanted to use it. What about percentage of the lawn area? Would that be 100 square feet? Average panel was 80 square ft.

What would you do? 160. No difference in just ball 160 square ft. I make it the same as the shed. 100 10 by 10. Yeah, I'll split the difference. 15, you know, it's going to change. you know, I mean, as we get better at this, right, but a number that makes sense. So, the panels are typically 8 ft long. I'm saying that they're about 4t long and they're about like 2 ft wide now. Maybe I I have no guidance on that. Hard to know either.

Like, how many do you need would you need then to power them if they're that size? Well, each one of them they're they're rated by a wind company which uses an artificial sunlight. Okay. And that mean if you buy a 100 watt panel, it's the absolute max that that thing can put out. So basically about one of them is about on a really good day maybe about 80 watts out of 100 watt panel. So your average home, especially in the summertime, you're using air conditioning. What are you doing? You're doing 2500 watts. Matt, that sounds good.

2500 2 and a half kilowatts. So you're you're right there. You're at uh that's 20 that's uh 30 panels. That's about 5x3. Yes. So and and 30 is Yeah, that's uh that's a lot. That's 200 that's 240 square ft. Now we do have minimum lot coverage requirements. Does that that kind of limit the size of these things more than trying to figure out what size we need them to be? I I think so. I'm not. Well, but what are the lots in Summit? You know, are they 10 acre lots or are they like just with each 15,000 square foot?

Yeah. Very good. You'd almost have to put that has to be a fair size lot in order to put them all right. It's for the principal lot. I mean, principal said the medium minimum 25. Yeah. So maybe for an accessory maybe you need a minimum of Didn't we see some Sorry. No, but didn't we see somewhere in that we can require them that they have to provide like the calculations to justify that this the panels that they're putting in are no bigger than what's required to power bill.

You might sense that. I Yes. No. Yeah. that was that was somebody else's that in other words you had to prove that the installation was no larger than what would be required out of the house and you aren't like tripling the size of it to make like a company by selling back to the grid. So if we're going to do that, does it need to say that this has to be so such and such and size or whatever and to power the home that that has to be checked before they can put it up or

I think they have to be some kind of permit. And obviously this is a little bit more complicated than thought it was going to be at the beginning, right? So this so so I think yeah I think if we're going to we have to understand if it goes I say it goes on they want to put it in front I don't care what we got in our neighborhood nobody for zoning it's on the ground and it's going to have to be some kind of zoning limitation or something I don't know I I kind of like the idea where we just keep it like if it's a shed if it's 10 by And you have to get a zoning permit if it's below that. There you go.

It could be at that point. If it's below that, it's someone just doing it more as a hobby or Okay. So, 100 square ft. Yeah. Right. Right. Back to where you Okay. And then if they want more than I see that. Yeah. Anything below 100 square f feet, you know, wire under below cuz there people that have like battery tender solar panels and things put in the yard to charge the RV. Yeah. to keep the battery from going that bad. I can see that. But you have one of those for your airream.

We deal 500 watts on the trailer. But when it's in operation, when it's in operation. Yeah. When it's actually set up. Yeah. But if we kill that horse well she just said to me that if they're on the ground be more than 100 square feet. Well I'm say and also if it's root mount you know that it's going to be 400. Yeah. Oh yeah. So if it's well I thought you talked about the ground. It's on the ground thing. on the roof. How to have it

because Chris and I were down Christopher and I were down here talking that at some point solar panels were just going to be a building material that you use for siding and roofing material. Right. And at that point are they they're no longer a solar panel. They're just a building material. Yeah. Sure. Oh, they're going to teach it solar panel. Yeah, I think it's chang

Oh. Yeah.

Okay. Oh, so we get a motion. Okay, Ron, you're going to I'm tired. Motion.

Just so you know, this is my last meeting. want to make. Okay, great. I'll second. All in favor? I I we just adjourned in case you guys didn't friend. No.