Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

Yes. All right. Good afternoon, everyone. This is the July meeting of the Planning Commission. We do not have, we're electing officers today. Therefore, I am opening the meeting as the secretary. And first, I will ask Commissioner Bauer to open us in invocation.

Let us pray. Lord, thank you so much for all the blessings you give us continually day after day. even though we're unworthy and help us to maintain a spirit of gratitude and humility as we enter this meeting. We ask that for each of the commissioners and all present that we set aside other outside issues and concerns that are taking up space in our mind and ask that you help us be fully present here, bringing our greatest gifts and our most unbiased minds to problem solve, work together and make wise decisions for the betterment of our city. We thank you for all the leaders and all the volunteers, all the citizens and everything that makes us a whole unified city. And we ask your blessing here today. Amen.

Amen. All rise for the Pledge of Allegiance. All right. I will now take a roll call. Commissioner Bauer.

Here.

Commissioner Baselman. Here. Commissioner Creekmore. Here. Commissioner Edwards. Here. Commissioner Goodman.

Here.

Commissioner Powell.

Here.

Commissioner Thornton-Emanuel.

Here.

And Commissioner Hicks. We have a quorum today. At this point, I will accept nominations for Chair of the Planning Commission.

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate you giving me the floor. I've been on the Planning Commission for a very long time. When I started on the Planning Commission, there were absolutely no women. It was an all-male commission. I am very pleased and honored with the fact that over the years, our city council has had the wisdom to nominate women to this commission and give us a new insight and a very good view of looking at things. So with that said, we do have a very capable female in our midst who has served as vice chairman, and I nominate Vice Chairman Anita Hicks for chairman.

Thanks. Second that motion.

All right. That is a nomination for Vice chair Hicks as chairman and we have a second by Commissioner Thornton Manuel Any discussion on that motion? All right with that said we can You can vote All right, that motion is approved by a vote of seven to zero. All right, in Ms. Hicks's absence, I will also accept nominations for the role of vice chair.

Mr. Secretary. I would like to nominate as vice chair Mr. Creekmore.

I second. All right. We have a motion for Mr. Creekmore as vice chair and a second from Mr. Goodman. Any discussion on that motion? All right. Commissioners, please vote. All right, that motion is approved by a vote of six to zero with one abstention. Congratulations. Congratulations, Mr. Vice Chair. I will at this point pass it over to you.

Okay, thank you very much. I appreciate the support of the commission, and you'll have to bear with us all because without our leadership today, they're gone. But in any event, we'll get through this. Before our business section meeting, a portion of this meeting starts, I'd like to make an announcement. It's my pleasure to introduce you to a new member, of our planning commission, David Bosselman, if you've already heard his name. David has been appointed to this position by our city council and is well known in our agricultural community as he has been an advocate and a representative in this important area to Suffolk. Additionally, he has served recently as the chairman of the Suffolk Agricultural Committee, and it's a real pleasure to have him as a valued member of this commission. So welcome, David.

Thank you.

All right. So today, the business portion of this meeting, we have five public hearings. Public hearings are for 30 minutes, 10 minutes for the proponents, 15 minutes for the opponents, and five minutes for the rebuttal by the proponents. Our first public hearing is a conditional use permit request, CUP 2026-00009. But before we get there, we're going to have to approve the minutes from our last meeting. I think we generally have to do this from time to time. Are there any changes or anything for the last minute? If not, those minutes will stand approved. Now we can get to going on the regular meeting. First public hearing is conditional use permit 2026-00009, the dogs at Lionheart. Mr. Wine, would you please read the caption?

Yes, sir. Conditional use permit request, CUP 2026-009, Dogs at Lionheart, submitted by Leslie Benson, applicant and property owner. In accordance with Sections 31306, 31406, and 31702 of the Unified Development Ordinance, to grant a conditional use permit to establish a commercial kennel, on property located at 2170 Joshua Lane, zoning map 24, parcels 26. The affected area is further identified as being located in the Holy Neck Voting Borough Zoned A Agricultural Zoning District. The 2045 Comprehensive Plan designates this area as being outside of the growth area, rural agricultural land use type. When you act on this request, you'll be acting on a resolution to present a report and recommendation TO CITY COUNCIL RELATING TO CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT CUP 2026-009. STAFF PLANNER SHANNON WOLF WILL PRESENT STAFF'S REPORT ON THIS ITEM.

THANK YOU. GOOD AFTERNOON, VICE CHAIR AND MEMBERS OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION. THE APPLICATION BEFORE YOU IS A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT TO ESTABLISH A COMMERCIAL KENNEL AT PROPERTY LOCATED AT 2170 JOSHUA LANE. The subject property is identified as tax map number 24 asterisk 26. The parcel and all surrounding properties are zoned A, Agricultural Zoning District. As shown here, the subject property is approximately 93 acres and contains Epps Farm Supply Store, horse boarding, and several other agricultural uses such as chicken swaps and vegetable sales. The city's 2045 comprehensive plan places the subject property outside of the growth area and designates it for agricultural uses such as farming, animal keeping, and other uses that preserve the open, rural character of the area. A commercial kennel on a large agricultural property fits the character of the area and other animal care and keeping uses already common in the agricultural district. While the applicant recognizes that the number of dogs on the property has the potential to produce noise, the size of the property surrounding vegetation and the nearest residential home being approximately 500 feet away reduces the possibility for noise nuisance and there has been no known noise complaints to date. The size of the property allows the dogs to be housed and exercised within the interior of the farm while maintaining separation from the neighboring properties. The provided narrative states that the dogs at Lionheart has been operating on the property for 20 years and was established in 2006 with dog breeding and offering dogs for adoption to families and individuals. The program focuses on raising dogs, primarily German Shepherds, with good temperament, sound health, and the potential to not only be a companion dog but also a service dog. The owners work with dog trainers to evaluate each dog to determine whether or not they're a good fit to be a service dog or would be a much better suited as a companion animal. Service dogs are placed with first responders and military veterans injured in the line of duty as well as families with children on the autism spectrum to provide emotional support and increase independence. The program currently consists of 20 females, six males, and up to 30 puppies under one year of age. The applicant proposes to keep up to 60 dogs on site for breeding purposes. However, it is important to note that state law caps a commercial breeder at 50 dogs over one year of age without approval of a governing body. The applicant states that the daily operations and care of the dogs are handled by the owner, one paid employee, and 10 volunteers, with approximately four individuals in addition to the owner present on the property during normal business hours. At least one person is present overnight to monitor all the animals on the property. During a normal day, the dogs are taken out of their enclosures in groups of 10 to 15 at a time for walks, jogging and supervised exercise around the property approximately every two hours. Buckets of food and water are kept out all day to allow the dogs to graze as they wish to ensure they do not eat too fast. During the summer, ice is placed in the water throughout the day to keep it cool. The owner states she maintains the financial resources necessary to provide ongoing food, veterinary care, housing, and overall management for all dogs on the property and even has a life insurance policy to cover their care in the event something happens to her. As previously stated, the subject property contains Epps Farm Supply Store, horse breeding, and several other agricultural uses such as chicken swaps and vegetable sales. Exhibit C, Site Overview, shows the layout of the property with existing and proposed structures. Exhibit C, Area A, shows a closer view of the Epps Farm Supply residential home and some of the dog shelters and pens. This is the first area you will come to when you enter the property. These are photos of Area A. They show some of the many shelters provided and the whelping shed for the mothers and their puppies. Shown here are more photos of area A and you can see the large bucket of food in the top left corner and more shelters in the back of the barn. This section of area A is closest to the residential home on the property and the first dog pen you will come to when you enter the property. The photo in the top middle shows solar powered electric fencing to help keep the dog secure inside of the pen. This is exhibit C, area B, and it shows a closer view of pens one, two, and three. These photos of area B show some of the shelters within the pens and open fields around the pens used for exercising the dogs. This is exhibit C, area C, and it shows a closer view of the dog barn, dog kennels, and other agricultural uses on the property. The barn has a misting system and several kennels, and there is a pen on the outside for the dogs to be able to play. These are photos of area C, and show you the barn, kennel areas, and play areas provided. In conclusion, this conditional use permit does sufficiently satisfy the criteria set forth in sections 31-306 and 31-406 of the Unified Development Ordinance. The applicant has met the minimum requirements set forth by supplemental use standards in section 31702E of the Unified Development Ordinance. Therefore, staff recommends approval of conditional use permit request CUP 2026-009 subject to the following conditions. While staff recommends approval, the ultimate authority to approve or deny an application for a conditional use permit lies with city council. As such, staff recommends that the conditions noted in staff's report accompany the conditional use permit. I would like to bring your attention to conditions three, six, seven, and eight specifically. Number three, no more than 26 dogs over one year of age and 30 dogs under one year of age shall be part of the commercial kennel operation at any one time. Number six, outdoor exercise and training of the dog shall only occur in the hours of 6 a.m. to 7 p.m. Number seven, the commercial kennel must ensure all animals are vaccinated in accordance with the Code of Virginia, and each dog shall have a separate file in accordance with Section 3.2-6507.2 of the Code of Virginia. Number eight, maintain records for each dog for at least five years in accordance with 3.2-6507.2 of the Code of Virginia. Records shall be kept on the property and readily available upon request. This concludes my presentation. I will stand by for any questions following the public hearing. And at this time, I would like to bring up Chief Animal Control Officer Lanier. She has some comments on this application.

Thank you, Ms. Ward.

Good afternoon. I'm Chief Lanier. I'm in charge of the Enforcement Division for Animal Control. I went out with planning back in June to go throughout the property and look at all the dogs that were on the property. There were a total of 117 dogs on the property. Of those 117, 100 of them were over the age of four months. They were housed in 11 different areas that you had seen on the slideshow, and When we went out in June, there were a couple things that Ms. Benson needed to correct, which I went back out the following month, just a couple days ago, and she had corrected those. She initially provided us with rabies certificates that she had on the property. She provided us with 66 rabies certificates. Of those 66 rabies certificates, there was only 24 that actually matched the dogs that were on the property. And she's since been unable to provide me with any additional rabies certificates. Some of the concerns that we had initially were the water source. So they actually had water out there, but the water wasn't potable. When we say potable, that means drinkable water. So if the dogs are getting in the water and they're all muddy, that water is not drinkable. They did correct that issue by leaving the water out there that the dogs will more than likely drink, even if they've been swimming in it. and they actually were hanging buckets up on two-by-fours or four-by-fours, and so that was corrected. And then there was a couple minor shelter issues that were addressed that they corrected. But that's all I wanted to add was just about the number of dogs that they actually currently had on the property and what was provided to us. Were there any questions?

Thank you.

Thank you.

We'll now open the public hearing. Who would like to come forward to... speak in favor of this conditional use permit? Anyone? You have 10 minutes, and please state your name and address.

My name is Leslie Benson, and I'm the owner of the Dogs at Lionheart. I'm a little nervous. This is my first time at a public meeting, so be patient with me. Good afternoon and thank you for considering my application for the commercial use permit. We are located at 2170 Joshua Lane at our family farm and home to Epps Farm Supply. Epps has been in the community for 75 years, 20 years at the Joshua Lane location. The Dogs of Lionheart started over 20 years ago with a passion for German Shepherds. German Shepherds are intelligent, loyal, and an all-around family and farm dog. It was in 2019 that I noticed a need for service dogs for veterans and first responders injured in the line of duty. Serving those who first served us became our motto. We specialize in service dogs for PTSD, RECALL AND STABILITY. DOGS HAVE BEEN TRAINED AS DIABETIC DETECTION DOGS AND PEOPLE WITH HEART ISSUES. THE VETERANS WILL FILL OUT AN APPLICATION WITH A DOCTOR'S REFERRAL AND IF WE CAN MEET THEIR NEEDS, THE DOGS AT LION HEART WILL DONATE A PUPPY FOR THE VETERAN. TRAINING AND BONDING STARTS THEN. at an eight week old puppy. Formal training starts at 18 to 24 months. We have a local trainer and she's the owner of Positivities. She is certified with ASCTI, the American Society of Canine Trainers International. She certifies the service dogs or the veterans. She also does search and rescue and police dogs. We have also started a pilot program with children on the spectrum. It is a breeding program between a standard poodle and a German shepherd called a shepherdoodle. The smarts of a German shepherd and the kind look of a poodle. And the feedback on that program has been very positive. And I want to read you a text sent to me from a veteran that makes what we do worth it. And I might cry, I'm sorry. Hey. Hey, lady. A month and a half ago, I was at Woodson. I was to become a statistic. Bandit came up to the rescue. He did his job and kept me from becoming a statistic. I love my dog. Thank you again. He's a veteran, and he had PTSD, and he was suicidal. And his dog stopped him from becoming a statistic. Bandit is a great dog. Twice this month, I have passed out. When I woke up, he was laying down next to me. Thank you for my best buddy. I have many testimonies, but I'm limited on time. Not all puppies for my litter qualify for the service dog program. Puppies who are not are sold to a family home with the application and interview process. Again, thank you for your time, and I hope this meeting gives you an understanding how passionate we are about our dogs at Lionheart. And may I ask for more time so one of my trainers can come up and describe what is done for a service dog and how they meet the needs of the veteran? Can I ask for more time?

Well, you have six minutes to go.

Oh, that's not... I have people here, so... Can I introduce her? Yes.

Sue, can you come up? Good afternoon. My name is Sue Resnick, and I help with the puppy evaluations and temperament testing for the dogs that are being provided through Dogs at Lionheart. My background comes from, I've worked for Guided Eyes for the Blind for 13 years, volunteered for five, worked for seven years, which helped individuals who were visually impaired. I also worked with Blue Path Service Dogs, which is an autism service dog organization for 10 years, volunteering and employment for about the past year. So with this, we take... Based off the applications that are coming in and the litters that are born, we look at each of those puppies to see which ones have the ability to go into service dog training. Not every dog can do some. Some are a little too smart, so they're going to make their own decisions. Some of them, not so much. They don't have the resilience that are needed to put them in everyday situations. So with these, we assess and evaluate the dogs to decide which ones are going to be worthy and match up those temperaments as well to the individual who's receiving it. Service dogs do a wonderful amount of assistance for those that are receiving them for PTSD. It gives them the pressure. It allows to calm them in those situations where things are not going well. It helps them with retrieval of items that they might have a hard time getting themselves. Also for stability for when they need help getting up and such, depending on the person's disability in that sense. Leslie has been very generous with her dogs in helping. She always looks for the good and who she can help out in this world. So it's been an honor for the past nine years helping her with that also doing classes beginning classes for some of those pups and and External field trips with some of the service dog users so that they can see how the dog should be properly behaving in public situations and and incorporating those situations, setting them up for success. So I just wanted to share a little bit about my involvement with her and with these dogs. They're all very well cared for. I have received a few of my own personal pets, ones I fell in love with as well.

Thank you very much. A lot of good information.

Good afternoon. I am Debbie price. This is my husband Bob and we live at 2171 Joshua Lane We've been there nearly 30 years. So we are probably the closest right across the street from this location This has always been a working farm for as long as we can remember and since 2006 miss Benson's had dogs on the property during the entire time we have never experienced any issues and that would cause us concern. She has always been a responsible neighbor and has operated her property with care and respect for those around her. As the closest neighbors, we'd be the first to experience any negative impacts. Instead, we are here to express support. We believe this conditional use permit simply recognizes and allows continued responsible use of that property. We would much rather see this property remain in the agricultural use as well-managed kennels than be converted to a more intensive agricultural operation such as a hog farm or ultimately be developed into a residential area. So we respectfully ask that you approve the application, Ms. Benson, and thank you for your consideration.

Thank you.

Good evening or good morning. I don't know what it is. My name's Catherine Duke. I live at 2172 Manning Road. I'm getting to be an old oak tree around here. I'll be 63 in August. I've known her for 35 years. The one thing that people seem to forget is either we're nuts or we love our animals. Who's out in nine degree weather in the wintertime with ice, checking the bowls, feeding these dogs, horses in my case, is her. And the girls that work with her, it's not easy. You got to love them to do it. And you put your life on hold for them. And I would certainly hate to see her hurt. She's a good Christian human being, and her dogs are wonderful. And I have a little bit of asthma somehow, a little bit of trouble speaking. But when it's hot outside, and my mother, Kay Duke, will tell you, not those animals come first. Not me, my animals. Like I said, we're either nuts or we just love our animals. But I tell you, this winter was bad. And I saw her out there, overalls, hat, and the girls taking care of these dogs left and right. And just like with me with the horses. I have a 35, a 27, and a 28-year-old. And sometimes people go by and say, oh, they're thin. Well, they're old. But a lot of the new people moving in don't understand agriculture and they don't understand animals. We do because God looks after us to look after them, and she loves them, and I love them too. So please let her keep her little farm the way it is. She don't bother anybody. She works hard, and I've also been buying stuff from her for 30 years. I got my horse from her, Bozo, 30 years ago and loved him. So I've known her a long time. So thank you for listening, and I hope you make the right decision. Thank you.

Thank you very much. Ms. Benson, you'll have some time after any of those that may not agree with you on this, but it was good information. Thank you. Thank you. Is there anyone here that would like to speak in opposition to this? If so, you have 15 minutes to talk about it. Hearing none, Ms. Benson, you have another five minutes if you would like to say anything else to wrap it up.

I'm Jesse Roundtree and I live at 9900 Hillborn Boulevard. I own 27 acres right beside Leslie's. I call it my getaway. I've known Leslie for over 20 years because I've owned the farm for 26. Never have had any trouble with the dogs. I go by there every once in a while and see her exercising the dogs and kind of have to chuckle a little bit because the dogs run right behind her. I'm for letting Leslie have the kennel. And I thank you. Thank you.

Good afternoon. My name is Kimberly Wimbrow. I live at 2120 Joshua Lane. I actually bought a part of her property because I love the farm so much. Leslie and I have been friends for well over 25 years. Our children went to school together and all of us became family. The farm is my getaway. I have health issues. Before we moved to Suffolk, my husband would bring me to the farm just to sit in the middle of all the German shepherds and all And then I became, when I moved here, I became the socializer. Whenever she had a litter of puppies, I would come to the farm and just sit right in the middle and rub their feet and their ears to try to get them prepared for children or their families that they go to and things. And I think we're here today because of, I'm going to start crying, because of Leslie's heart. She loves her animals, and she loves her family, but it's a tight race. I'm telling you, her husband fusses because sometimes she doesn't go to all the baseball games with the grandkids because she's got to tend to her dogs, and we all can attest to that that are here that those animals are well taken care of and loved. She doesn't trust anybody else with them but a few people, and I've had, several of hers. We just lost my long coat German Shepherd last year. And although Gurley was not trained, I have POTS and vagal vascular syncope and I faint a lot. So if I fall, I'll be okay. But she would come and lay with me as soon as I fell and stay with me to make sure I was okay. And she had never had any training at all. That's just how smart she was. And I still have one of her dogs now and he's my maniac, but He's got great temperament. I have five grandchildren. He's right there with them and is wonderful with them. But she is a very good person, and she would do anything for anybody. And I'm very blessed to call her friend and neighbor. So thank you all for your time.

Thank you. We all like to hear about dog stories, you know, and chickens and horses.

Come see us. Hi. I'm Leslie's worker and known her since I was a baby, basically. I don't see nothing wrong with it. I've been with her. I have horses at her place. My mom also has firsthand experiences with her. Her dogs are literally her first children. If something happens to her dogs, Leslie's broken down for days. There's no other love like Leslie has for her dogs. That's true.

We have horses at the farm, but we also own one of her dogs, and my son is special needs, and Leslie was, let us pick the dog out the day it was born. We were there, and we've taken it home. We still have Roger is his name, and he has been an amazing partner for our son, and we just, she's amazing, and she loves her animals just like they're her children. I've been there.

I've been there for years, been there for every puppy birth, been there for everything, and She does it well. She knows what she's doing. She takes really good care of her animals. She spoils them. I tell you, we spend hours in the morning making food because everybody has to have a can of food, not just dry food. We don't do that around there. Thank you.

Thank you very much. Okay, this meeting is closed. Public meeting is closed. And commissioners, do we have any questions, comments, or a motion is in order.

I've got a question for the planning department. So main takeaway here for me, it sounds amazing. We're asking from what I gathered to, We, sorry, the conditions are asking her to cut the operation in half number, I guess, because I heard the existing number of dogs was 117, and my math's not great, but I think that's 56. So those conditions up there, the specific numbers, I'm not saying let's jack it up or anything like that, but where do the ratios come from? And I understand the setbacks, but is that, I'm sure there's some kind of precedence on the number.

So the remaining dogs are being considered as personal dogs. They're not part of the breeding program. Um, in the ag, the way our ordinance is written right now, there is no cap on the number of personal dogs. That is the only zoning district in Suffolk that has that, um, every other zoning district you're capped at five. And after that, you have to come through us to get, uh, a conditional use permit or a commercial kennel license. Um, so she will, we would have the 56 as her, um, kennel use. The other dogs would be considered personal dogs on the property. So she would stay at that number, um, as well, her number would fluctuate as she adopts out and brings in. Um, she also, as dogs retire from her breeding program, they then become her personal dogs. Gotcha.

Yeah. Okay. So we're not, It's not a real, it's not really changing the operation as it stands. I think that's pretty much all I got. Thanks so much.

Any other questions, comments?

Yes, Vice Chairman. I do have a couple questions. First, I would like to ask Officer Lanier to come back to the podium. Thank you. How you doing today, officer?

I'm good, ma'am. How are you? All right.

On your visit back in June, can you just tell me what some of the conditions that you observed again about your visit?

Okay, so when we first got out there, they walked us through each of their different kennels that they had set up. Like I said, there's 11 different enclosures. They have five that they call different pins, five pins. And then they have some that are in a Connex box that have access to fans. And then back at the barn, they have what they call the corgi pin. And then there's another pin that has the dog kennels off of it. When I initially went out there, because we had been out there previously, and when it was really cold and snowing in January, we had been out there. And this is how it all started was they had too many dogs. So we had notified zoning in reference to that. And that's where they came in and told that there was a notice of violation. They were operating without being a commercial dog breeder and they had to go through the conditional use permit process. And initially it was, they had issues with the shelter and the wind breaks and all of that, which they complied with that. And then when I went out there in June, the issues was the water. There was a couple of dog houses that needed some modifications. There was, an issue with a wire that I'd seen that was out that was just coiled up out in the pen. Um, and everything that we discussed, they fixed within that timeframe. Um, when I told them that I would be back in July. Um, and then the only other issue that we have is just getting all of the rabies vaccines. Uh, she does have a kennel license, which she purchased, uh, through, um, the treasurer's office.

All right. So, um, just, just overall, um, the question is, uh, are the dogs in a safe environment?

Yeah. So when I was out there, there was like, um, their actual, their veterinarian was out there with us as well and walk through and looked at each pen. Um, and any of the dogs that I had questions with, there was a dog that, um, as we were actually out there that they might, might've gotten into like a little scuffle in the dog's ear was bleeding. That vet addressed it. Um, while we were there, um, another dog had a skin condition, which was addressed and treated. Um, and one of the dogs that I had said was on the, on the thinner side, they dewormed it. And when I went back out the following month, everything was, um, The vet was comfortable with the way the dogs were housed. My concern was the dogs in the Connex box just because it is hot in that Connex box. And when we were out there in June, it was warmer in that Connex box than it was outside. But when I went back out in July, it was actually much cooler because we were sweating out at the farm. So going in there with the fans and the movement of the air, it definitely felt much better. All right.

Thank you, ma'am.

Yes, ma'am.

ONE MORE QUESTION. NO, NOT YOU.

MS. BENSON.

YES, MA'AM. THANK YOU FOR TAKING MY PHONE CALL THIS AFTERNOON. COUPLE QUESTIONS FOR YOU. I MEAN, OVERALL, SOUNDS LIKE YOU GOT A GOOD PROGRAM GOING ON OUT THERE. but I guess the question is the amount of dogs that you have. Do you have a good support staff to help you with the amount of dogs?

Yes, ma'am. Actually, Vaughn and myself can do the dogs in two hours, and that's water, feed them, check them, vet them. So it might sound very overwhelming to us, to yourself, but it really isn't. And it is controlled. Uh, the amount of dogs that we have, uh, is due to, I just don't get rid of my dogs when I'm done breeding them. We keep, we spay and neuter them. Um, but they stay on the farm. That is their, that is their home, you know, to place them at the age of seven or eight in another family. That's not fair for them. I have taken back, um, Some dogs that I have placed because the people are moving or are unable to take care of them at that time. We're just a responsible breeder, and we will take them back and take care of them, and we will try to rehome them. All right.

Make sure I heard you correct. You said it was you and someone else in two hours.

Yes, yes. It's Vaughn. In two hours, we take care. We have it down pat.

You got it down pat.

Yes, ma'am. And what we do, too, we have feed stations that they can eat from at any given time. And that way they don't gobble their food. They have food available all the time. We free feed them and have food available at all times. And Officer Lanier said about the Connex box. When you see that, you think of a big old metal building and stuff. It's very nice kennels, and I believe there was a picture of it. They like it. Once they do their run around the farm, they run right in there because they know they're going to be fed and given their treats in their individual kennels and stuff like that. And we did address the condition about running fans and stuff like that, and it's nice and cool in there now.

All right. Have you addressed the issues with the rabies shot records?

We're working on it right now, and I do have quite a bit of the rabies shots and stuff like that. Some of them do not have names, you know, to them. So what we're trying to do, may I get a form real quick?

Get a what?

A form to show you.

Oh, no, I don't need that.

Okay. It's a form, and we're doing on it each individual dog, date of birth, microchip number, you know, health record, and a pitch or two, along with their rabies shot record with them. And we're going to have that available at the farm. And she was talking about the pins. The pins are... individually numbered. So if I told you to come out and look at PIN 5, you would know what PIN 5 would be.

I'm going to try to wrap my last comment up real fast here.

It can be overwhelming.

It can be overwhelming because in the package you also said you have up to like 10 volunteers, and then you have one person at nighttime. Yes. So between you and the person you mentioned, which one of y'all staying up at night?

He's not here right now.

He's not here. Yes. So you have a total of three people that possibly take care of the dogs all day, right?

Oh, yeah. But I have 10 people at any given time I can call them. and they'll be there. And Ann, she didn't want to go up talk. She's there, you know, all the time, too.

All right. Yeah. So you understand the conditional uses underneath this permit, correct?

Yes, ma'am.

Okay. All right. That's it. I'm done.

Does anyone else have any comments? Motion? I have a question.

Yes, sir.

No, no, not.

Oh.

Thank you. Yes, ma'am. I need clarification because this is a conditional use permit, not a rezoning. So there's some other parameters that we have to address. So I have one question. I heard and read in the packet that the reason we're here is because it's plus 50. Is that correct? What's this 50 number?

No, Shannon.

I believe you're speaking of where state code says they're capped at 50 under a commercial breeder.

So when you say capped at 50, what does that mean?

So per state code, it states that they can go up to 50 in an agricultural zoning district. Anything over 50 would require approval from a governing body. But she's also asking to be able to breed and all of that. Our definitions are a little bit different when it comes to commercial kennel. So yes, she would require a conditional use permit For anything over five.

Let me ask you this question. With the number 50, is that including the personal dogs? No.

The kennel use stands alone by itself, and she can only have up to the way we've conditioned it, 56. And 30 of those are puppies under one year of age.

Let me ask one question. So if her number was 49, she wouldn't be here?

Yes, she would. She would still require a conditional use permit to operate the breeding part of this.

Even at any number. Over five. Over five of the 26 dogs. I know she's doing six dogs for the males, 20 for the female.

Yes.

What number gets her here?

Five.

Five total.

She's doing 21 more dogs.

than what she needs to be here. So if she just did five total of the breeders, she wouldn't be here, even if she still had the 30.

Well, so that 56 also includes the 30 puppies. Right. So puppies are also included in that. So for the actual breeding dogs, it's 26. So if she was to go down to five, then yes, she would not need a conditional use permit. because, but then the puppies would also go down to six months because the way our unified development ordinance reads is puppies are considered six months and over. We conditioned this to one year to go closer to what state code requires. State code calls puppies under one year of age. And it also takes her a little bit longer to figure out whether the dogs are good for the service dog program or whether or not they're going to be adopted just out as a companion animal. So we're conditioning her to up to a year for the puppies, which matches state code.

One last question. How did we find out about what was going on?

Um, the animal control reported it to zoning when they went out in January to do an inspection and they realized there was a large number of dogs on the property that were over the five that are permitted. Um, because once you hit five, even though we don't cap the number of personal dogs you can have in the ag, once you hit five, then you require a commercial kennel license, even if it's in the ag.

Thank you.

One question for the for the lady.

I have one question for the applicant. Yes, sir. This is my own clarification. What can you do with 26 that you can't do with five?

Well, 26 dogs are not being bred at the same time. They're in the breeding program. Um, we don't start breeding our females or males until they're two years of age. Uh, they have been vetted. They have had their OFA certification. That's their hips. and they have been in bark test for genetic defects. We'll pull those dogs that we think will be potential breeders. So not all 26, they're in the program, but they might never ever be used. They're starting in the program. And you don't want to breed the dog every year. So it gives us a selection to pull from.

But if you have five dogs, you won't have to be here.

But I, yeah. I, yeah. Yes, sir. Because I do have a kennel license. I have two kennel license dogs. at 50 each. So I have a kennel license for 100 dogs through the city of Suffolk. I guess the conditional use permit allows me to breed.

All right.

Thank you.

Appreciate it.

Thank you.

And let me ask one more question. This is for city staff. Anyone can answer it.

So if the conditions are not met,

what happens? You shut down the whole place or what happens if the conditions aren't met? If one of the 10 conditions are not met?

So animal control will work closely with zoning and it's just like any other conditional use permit. If it's becoming a problem and there's several complaints and the conditions are not being met, then it would go back before city council and they could revoke the conditional use permit.

And a point of clarification there, should they... be found to not be in compliance with any of their conditions as specified, City Council has the ability to revoke the conditional use permit. Ultimately, that would be a motion that would have to be made by City Council to revoke it.

And make sure, Mr. Chairman, I mean, Mr. Director, if they get the conditional use removed, they still can do five.

In accordance with our regulations, they could keep five dogs, but if they were being utilized for breeding purposes, they are considered a commercial kennel for our unified development ordinance, which requires a conditional use permit.

So for them to even do this operation at all, they need to have a conditional use permit. All right, thank you. Very good clarification.

Mr. Edwards, let me clarify something real quick. The 50 dogs that state code is speaking of is the license that the city requires. That's just for that license. And so she was able to purchase two of those. So that's just that license that requires them to have rabies shots and things like that.

Thank you so much for the clarification.

Well, we still would like to, it's time for a motion.

I'll second that.

All right, we have a motion that's been made and seconded. Any additional questions or comments? Yes, sir.

I'd like to make one comment, Ms. Benson. Rabies is rapid around here. I mean, I've had a couple incidences with rabies myself. I would definitely try to make sure all my dogs were up to date there. Either way, get the certificate and hang on to it. But other than that, I'm with you.

Okay, any other questions, comments? With that, Mr. Wine, we need a call for the vote.

Commissioners, please vote. Mr. Vice Chair, the motion passes by a vote of six to one.

This conditional use permit was approved and will go before the City Council on August the 19th. So this is practice for you all. So you had a number of questions that came up, and I would encourage you to include that with your presentation to the council. And it goes to the council with our recommendation for approval. Thank you very much.

Vice Chair Creekmore, before we roll into our next hearing, I rise for a point of order. I WANT TO MAKE SURE WE UNDERSTAND THE PROCEDURES BEFORE WE ROLL INTO THE NEXT HEARING. SOME OF MY CONCERNS ARE WHEN WE CALL UP THE APPLICANT TO OPEN THE HEARING. 15-minute time period is for the people that in agreeance with Correct.

Yes. All right, and then after that We give another 15 minutes for the people that oppose There are 10 minutes for the initial Comments 15 minutes for opponents five minutes for rebuttal and

five minutes on the rebuttal, that means that the applicant is the one that, or whoever that represents the applicant, in that rebuttal, five-minute scratch, they are the one to come up and comment on the...

Yes.

Okay. So that's not open to public comments at that time, correct?

Well, they can come up in the... It's 15 minutes, a total of 15 minutes for the initial thing, but actually it's 10 minutes. Then you have 15 minutes for the opponents, and then you have five minutes for a person to come back up.

All right, so the five-minute opposition, that's not for comments, for people to come up and comment?

Fifteen minutes is for those that may be opposed to whatever we're looking at. Does that answer your question?

I mean, that's the way we've been operating for a number of years here.

So according to your bylaws, there is 10 minutes for the proponents. That means anyone who is in favor of whatever is before the body. And then anyone who is opposed, there's 15 minutes for them to speak. And then again, anyone who is in favor of whatever's before you has an additional five minutes so that at the end of the day, everyone has equal time. And the person who or the people who are in favor of a particular item has the opportunity to respond to those who may speak in opposition to it.

Okay. Got it. I just wanted clarification. Make sure we are on track here. All right.

Thank you. Are you good? Yes, sir. The next item on the agenda is also a conditional use permit number 202600016, Tiny Town Home Child Care. Mr. Wyand, would you please read the caption? Yes, sir.

Conditional use permit request, CUP 2026-016, Tiny Town Home Child Care, submitted by Janelle Turner, applicant and property owner, in accordance with Sections 31306, 31406, and 31701 of the Unified Development Ordinance to grant a conditional use permit to establish a family day home for up to 12 children on property located at 1017 Meadows Reach Circle, zoning map 26F, parcel HM star six. The affected areas further identified as being located in the Chukotuck Voting Borough zoned PD, planned development overlay zoning district. The 2045 comprehensive plan designates this area as part of the central growth area, traditional neighborhood land use type. When you act on this request, you'll be acting on a resolution to present a report and a recommendation to city council relating to conditional use permit CUP 2026-016. Staff Planner Isabella Reynolds will present staff's report.

Thank you. Good afternoon, chair and commissioners. Before you today is a conditional use permit request to expand an existing family day home for up to 12 children. The subject property is located at 1017 Meadows Reach Circle. The subject property is located within the central growth area and is designated as traditional neighborhood land use type in the 2045 comprehensive plan. The subject property is approximately 0.16 acres in size and is zoned PD, planned development. The properties to the north of the subject property are zoned PD, planned development. The properties to the south of the subject property are zoned PD and MUD, mixed use development. The properties to the east of the subject property are zoned PD, and the properties to the west of the subject property are also zoned PD, planned development. The subject property is outlined in blue. The subject property is located within the Hill Point Meadows subdivision, which is located within the overall Hill Point master development plan. The subject property is surrounded by detached single family dwellings, and the rear of the property abuts the open space requirement for the subdivision. Family day homes are required to provide one parking space plus one per employee, in addition to the two parking spaces required for single family dwellings. As you can see here on the screen, the subject property provides five parking spaces in the driveway and three off street parking spaces on Meadows Reach Circle, which is sufficient parking for the proposed use. A proposed condition of approval is a minimum of eight parking spaces shall be provided and maintained for the use. The fenced-in outside area is approximately 2,950 square feet, which exceeds the minimum requirement of 1,000 square feet of fenced-in outside play area. On the screen is the floor plan provided by the applicant. The areas outlined in the green are part of the family day home use. Per state code, family day homes are required to provide 35 square feet of open space or 50 square feet of open space with furniture per child in care. The applicant is proposing to use approximately 1,069 square feet, which meets the indoor space requirement. On the screen are some pictures provided by the applicant of the daycare space. The applicant currently operates the family day home with up to four children, which is permitted as a matter of right. Currently, the applicant operates Monday to Friday from 7 a.m. to 5 p.m. The current hours of operation are proposed to stay the same with the expansion of family day home. On the screen are photos of the backyard which the applicant provided. Per Suffolk's UDO, the outdoor play will be permitted only from 8 a.m. to 6 p.m. To mitigate any potential adverse impacts, a proposed condition of approval will limit the outdoor play hours to 8 a.m. to 6 p.m. Upon receiving a copy of the staff report, the applicant made the decision to remove the trampoline from their backyard. As you can see here on the screen, the trampoline is no longer in the area that it used to be and has been removed. In conclusion, this conditional use permit request does sufficiently satisfy the criteria set forth in the UDL. The applicant currently operates a family day home for up to four children, which previously, as I previously mentioned, is permitted as a matter of by-right. The proposed expansion of the family day home is not anticipated to have any adverse impacts to the surrounding community. Therefore, staff recommends approval of CUP 2026 with the conditions outlined in the staff report. I'll be standing by for any questions following the public hearing. Thank you.

Thank you. We'll now open the public hearing. Who would like to come forward to speak in favor of this conditional use permit? Do we have anyone? Please state your name and address, and you have 10 minutes.

I'm Janelle Turner. My address is 1017 Meadows Reach Circle. My name is Janelle Turner. I'm the owner of Tiny Town Home Child Care. I started my child care journey as a family child care provider serving military families over 10 years, over 10 years ago. That experience inspired me to open my own licensed family day home so I could help even more families here in the Suffolk community. I was fortunate to be selected for the Minus 9 to 5 pilot program. Through their mentorship and financial assistance, they helped me open Tiny Town Home Child Care. With my husband's upcoming retirement after 24 years in the Navy, we're excited to begin this next chapter together as he joins me in serving our community. My request today is simply for the opportunity to expand Tiny Town Home Child Care so I can provide more safe, reliable child care options for Suffolk's working families. Thank you for your time and consideration.

Thank you. Is there anyone else? Is there anyone in attendance who would like to speak in opposition to this? Excuse me. Oh, okay. We still have eight minutes to go. Do you have any additional people that would like to come up and speak to this?

Thank you.

Hello. My name is Tanika Jones. I'm actually her neighbor at 1019 Meadows Reach. And I am so in favor of this. This is very dear to my heart because this is the first year since 2006 that I have not operated an in-home childcare. I started doing childcare myself because I was told that I would never have children. And so I became a foster parent and I opened up an in-home childcare and I just see how she takes such wonderful care of her children. It's always so neat and clean. The kids are always so very well taken care of. So I am in absolute favor of her doing any and everything to support the community. because we seriously need in-home care because you can just focus on the kids when there's a little bit of kids rather than going to a big establishment. And I have so many kids that I'm still in touch with today that are 19 and 20 years old, and it's just amazing how much an in-home child care can, you know, I just love it. I'm in favor of it all the way, 100%. and I don't mind the kids playing its music to my ears to hear them. So I'm in favor all day long.

Thank you very much. Is there anyone else that would like to speak for this conditional use permit?

Good afternoon. My name is Jerron Vanderhall. My address is 855 West Brampton Avenue, Norfolk, Virginia. I serve as the Child Care Capacity Coordinator for Mindless 9 to 5. Home-based child care is often the first door worker families come through with flexible hours, personal attention, and providers in every neighborhood across the city, not just downtown. When we invest in home-based providers through training, licensing support, and fair hour shift, The warehouse worker starting at 5 a.m. or the single parent piercing together two jobs makes all the difference. This means more childcare slots, sooner close to home. It means Suffolk becomes a city where economic opportunity isn't blocked by the simple lack of somewhere safe for your child to be. Strong families build strong neighborhoods. Investing in home-based childcare is an investment in every parent trying to do right by their family and their job. I ask you to support this expansion for the parents doing everything right and just need a safe place for their child to land. Thank you.

Thank you. Any others? We have some time. All right. If not, is there anyone in attendance who would like to speak in opposition? Anyone? Okay. We have some time to talk more about Ms. Turner. Would you like to speak more about it, or are you okay? All right. Public hearing is now closed. And commissioners, any questions or comments or motion? Commissioners? Comments?

Yes, yes, Chair. Can I get the applicant to come back up, Ms. Turner? How you doing today?

Good, thank you.

All right. Please relate to your husband. Congratulations on those 24 years. So I just want to make sure I understand your hours of operation would be from 7 a.m. to 5 p.m.?

Yes, ma'am.

All right. And then one last thing. We don't know how this vote is going to go here in a couple of seconds, but I just want to just make sure you understand that... Whichever way I vote, go up here. The HOA is aware you're opening up a daycare?

Yes, ma'am.

All right. So we don't want to see your HOA up here talking about it ain't our fault.

I personally went to them and spoke to them.

All right. Thank you for that.

Any others?

I did. Um, I wanted to tell you, I think this is a great application. Um, location is well suited in my personal opinion, just knowing the real estate that surrounds there. You're at the entrance of hill point, which as we know, has multiple robust, um, subdivisions in there. You're near, God forbid anything happens to one of your youngsters. You're right in your urgent care in the hospital. Um, I think that I usually am a little hesitant and I want to hear more when they have the overnight programs. I'm not saying never do that, but I don't feel like this is much far at all outside the realm of what's well-suited for the location. So I wish you the best. You have my support. Thank you.

Mr. Chairman, CUP 2026.016, I move for approval.

Okay, we have a motion. I second it. And a second. Any other questions or comments?

Just for my knowledge, she's been keeping, I think, four is what she had, and she's moving up to 12. Now, does she have to be inspected in any kind of way?

Yeah, these operations are regulated at the state level through the Department of Education. Family day homes between 5 and 12 children do require licensure through the Department of Education.

All right, I'm good. Thank you. Good question. All right, Mr. Wine, please call for the vote.

Commissioners, please vote. Mr. Vice Chair, the motion passes by a vote of 7-0.

All right, this conditional use permit was approved and will go before the city council on August the 19th, 2026, with our recommendation for approval. Thank you very much. The next item on our agenda is conditional use permit number CUP 2026-00017, Zanita's Loving Arms Home Daycare, Mr. Wan, please read the caption.

Yes, sir. Conditional use permit request, CUP 2026-017, Zanita's Loving Arms Home Day Care, submitted by Simone Hunter, applicant and property owner, in accordance with Sections 31306, 31406, and 31701 of the Unified Development Ordinance to grant a conditional use permit to establish a family day home for up to 12 children on property located at 145 Patriots Walk Drive, zoning map 27M, parcel 35. The affected area is further identified as being located in the Suffolk Voting Borough zoned RLM, Residential Low-Medium Zoning District. The 2045 Comprehensive Plan designates this area as part of the central growth area, suburban neighborhood land use type. When you act on this request, you'll be acting on a resolution to present a report and recommendation to City Council relating to Conditional Use Permit CUP-2026-017. Staff Planner Kaitlin Aubet will present staff's report on this item.

Hi, good afternoon, commissioners. This is another conditional use permit for a family day home. This parcel, which you see at the little blue square, 145 Patriots Walk Drive, it's in the Patriots Walk subdivision. Context of where this is, you're a little bit north of Portsmouth Boulevard to the west of Nansman Parkway, again, right off Patriots Walk Drive, which takes you into the subdivision. In the comprehensive plan, this is designated as suburban neighborhood. To the north, the OI, that's McMinn Elementary. And then we have some traditional neighborhood. And then these items that park open space as the open space for the subdivision. That is an aerial. Again, property is highlighted in blue. I want to talk a little bit about what this property zone and then what's surrounding. So this property and the immediately adjacent properties are all zoned RLM. That's that residential low-medium density zoning district. Then to the south, we have a single family parcel, kind of on an elongated piece of land, and then to the south of that is the Magnolian Gardens, a mobile home park. Across the street on Nansman Parkway, we have single family subdivision, and then, there we go, all right. Beeman's Mill to the northwest, and then the elementary school, that's directly to the north. Magnolia Gardens and Beeman's Mill are zoned RU, residential urban. So to break down this proposal, applicant does wish to operate a family day home for up to 12 children. Again, this would be operated by the applicant. Right now, she doesn't have any additional staff because, again, that staffing ratio is dependent on the age of the children in care. So if you have four infants or more, then, again, that's a different ratio as opposed to if you had three-year-olds, four-year-olds, for example. Applicant in this case is requesting daytime care. The hours would be 6 a.m. to 6 p.m. and overnight care as well from 6 p.m. to 6 a.m. That would be conducted in accordance with state regulations.

The applicant's sketch plan, so you can see her home.

The outdoor play area that's required is highlighted in that blue dash. It's of ample size. The minimum is 1,000 square feet. She's providing 3,802 square feet. Additionally, for on-street and off-street parking, we have two spaces in the driveway right there that can accommodate two cars, and then we can have three on the street that could accommodate additional staff or, again, the parents that are coming to drop off the children. In her narrative, she has stated that she staggers those drop-offs and times them so the parents, they don't have all of them coming at one time to drop off the children. And that's just a photo of the three cars actually parked in those spots that I kind of highlighted, so you can see where the street is again. This is a newer subdivision, so the street is improved to full right-of-way-width standards. Again, that's that 60-foot with the pavement, curb gutter, and sidewalks. Some pictures. This is just of the backyard space, so you can see there's the turf and then a white vinyl fence that does enclose the entire outdoor area. There's a few gates. Again, any accesses out to the street or the front yard are gated off as well. This is the floor plan of the home. The applicant's gonna be utilizing about 701 square feet inside of the home, which I've highlighted in red, and those areas are comprised of what's shown as the bonus room upstairs, the bathroom, the kitchen. She's gonna be preparing food as part of this use in the mudroom. Again, as you're all probably aware, that minimum square footage is 50 square feet per child. That's furnished, so she does comply with that requirement. I've got a couple photos. This is just that end door area. That's the bonus room. That's where the main daycare space is. Since it's upstairs, she has installed baby gates that are going to be on the bottom and top of the staircase. That would be secured so the kiddos don't go downstairs. I want to point out that's not a runner on the stairs. She was having some work done on the house. So that's not like a permanent fixture. That was just from contractors. Another photo of the daycare space. Another photo of the daycare space. And then that's a view of the kitchen. So in sum, again, this is a single-family detached residential cluster subdivision. As far as the daycare use goes, very large, ample backyard for that outdoor play space. Again, this is a use that's pretty much contained inside the home in the backyard, so the scale and size is compatible with this suburban neighborhood of Patriot's Walk. Again, a large play yard, sufficient indoor space. And again, we have those conditions that are pretty standard for these examples, being the specific hours of operation, requirements for state licensure, Additionally, we have those outdoor play times, that's like 8 to 6, to ensure those impacts to the neighbors would be limited. So in sum, staff is recommending that you all forward this to city council with a recommendation of approval subject to the conditions as proposed in the draft ordinance. Thank you all so much. I'll be standing by for questions after the public hearing.

Thank you. We'll now open the public hearing. Who would like to come forward and speak in favor of this conditional use permit request? Please state your name and address, and you have 10 minutes.

Hello, good afternoon. My name is Simone Hunter and I'm the owner operator of Zenita's Loving Arms. Thank you for taking this time to consider my application for the conditional use permit to operate the licensed family day home within my residence. Zenita's Loving Arms is currently licensed by the Virginia Department of Education. And my goal is to provide a safe, nurturing and educational environment for up to 12 children as you've heard earlier in the young lady's report. ranging from the ages of six weeks to 12 years of age. As a licensed provider, I'm committed to meeting and maintaining all state licensing requirements, including health and safety standards, backyard checks, emergency preparedness, and ongoing professional development. I choose to open this family day home because I recognize the growing need for quality child care

in our community.

Many families, especially working parents, struggle to find dependable childcare that offer a smaller, more personal setting where children receive individualized attention. My program is designed to provide that type of environment while supporting children's social, emotional, physical, and educational development. THE FAMILY DAY HOME WILL OPERATE WITHIN THE DESIGNATED AREAS OF MY RESIDENCE, INCLUDING THE LOFT KITCHEN, SECOND FLOOR HALF BATHROOM AND FULLY FENCED BACKYARD FOR SUPERVISED OUTDOOR PLAY. THE HOME WILL REMAIN FIRST AND FOREMOST A RESIDENCE AND NO STRUCTURAL CHANGES ARE BEING MADE THAT WILL ALTER THE RESIDENTIAL CHARACTER OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD. I understand the importance of being a good neighbor. Parents will use my driveway for drop-off and pickup, helping to minimize any impact on street parking or traffic. Childcare activities will occur during reasonable daytime hours, and I am committed to maintain a clean, safe, and respectful environment that preserves the quiet character of the neighborhood. Although my current operations will limit TO DAYTIME CHILDCARE, I HOPE TO EXPAND IN THE FUTURE TO OFFER THE OVERNIGHT CARE FOR FAMILIES WHO WORK NONTRADITIONAL SCHEDULES SUCH AS HEALTH CARE WORKERS, MILITARY PERSONNEL, FIRST RESPONDERS AND OTHER ESSENTIAL EMPLOYEES. ANY FUTURE EXPANSION WILL CONTINUE TO COMPLY WITH ALL STATE LICENSING REQUIREMENTS AND ANY APPLICABLE LOCAL APPROVALS. Opening Zenita's loving arms is more than starting a business for me. It is an opportunity to invest in children and support families within our community. My goal is to create a place where children again are safe, encouraged to learn, and cared for with compassion while giving parents peace of mind knowing their children are in a licensed nurturing environment. I respectfully ask for your approval for my conditional youth permit application, and I appreciate your time and consideration. I will stand happy to answer any questions that you may have.

Thank you, Ms. Hunter. Do you have anyone here that also would like to speak?

So I was. Okay. But I have a three-month-old, and my employee is watching my three-month-old. So right now, no. But at the City Council, maybe so, yes.

All right. Thank you very much. Is there anyone else to speak in opposition to this request? If not... Ms. Hunter, again, you've got some more time.

I have nothing more to say?

I know. You have someone at home waiting for you.

I do.

Thank you very much. All right, this public meeting is now closed. Commissioners, questions, comments, or a motion?

Yes, Mr. Chairman, I have one question that was in the staff report. JUST FOR CLARIFICATION, CAITLIN, YES, YES, YES, MA'AM. SO UNDER CONSIDERATIONS AND CONCLUSIONS UNDERNEATH OUR OPERATION, IT STATES THAT THEY ARE REQUESTING COUNCIL'S APPROVAL OF OVERNIGHT HOURS

Yeah, I actually just circled that. That was a Scrivener's error. So if you go to the final page of the report, which is under where we condition the hours, that is the correct 6 a.m. to 6 p.m. for the daytime and then the 6 p.m. to 6 a.m. for the overnight. So I apologize for that typo.

Okay, so they're not requesting any overnight at this time?

No, they are. They are? Yes. So I want to draw your attention. This would be... If you go to page eight of nine on the report where the conditions are laid out and you're gonna look at condition two, that states those daytime operating hours and the nighttime hours that are specifically conditioned. So if council were to approve this, they would be approving the daytime care and the overnight care.

Okay, because I didn't see it when you put it up on the screen. That wasn't up there. Okay, I just wanted clarification on that also. All right, and then one comment for Mrs. Hunter. I commend you for opening up a daycare and keeping kids overnight. All right. Once again, we have another one within the HOA. Yes, ma'am. Is your HOA aware?

Yes, ma'am. Thank you. That's it. That's it? Yes, thank you. Okay.

That's all the questions I have.

Yes, ma'am. Any other questions?

Sure. I'm sorry to ask the applicant to come up again. So for overnight hours. Yes, ma'am. I say when I was, my kids were coming along, but I think it's more my line of work. I didn't know the... the express need or the volume of people that, folks that need overnight care. Are you seeing a great demand for that?

I actually have four that are looking to start after the summertime. So yes, and they're mainly I'm seeing working parents that are foster parents who need that type of care as well as the military personnel and healthcare. Those people that have non-traditional hours, like your first responders and those employees.

I'm trying to stay in my lane here of being a planning commissioner and focusing on the land use of it and the use and not how you're run. I know that is the Department of Education and you're a professional and you know what you're doing. That being said, The coming and going at night, I'm just thinking about it, living in a neighborhood. I don't know if you have a policy manual or anything, but can parents, I'm sure if you have their child, they can come pick them up whenever they want, but there are people coming and going throughout the night picking up kids. I'm just thinking about that. That sort of almost sounds like a 24-hour business, but I know it's not. Can you educate me a little bit on the comings and goings during the night being in a neighborhood setting?

So my nighttime hours, the overnight hours would be from 6 p.m. to 6 a.m. I do plan to stagnate. So call when they're on their way and we can kind of navigate the time and we can kind of stagnate that drop off and pick up time. I don't want any late drop-offs. So if you're going to be there at 6 or if you're going to be there at 7, you have to let me know. But that's the only way I can kind of plan that stagnation of individuals that are picking up and dropping off the children.

Right. You don't know if it would be like, again, I'm sorry if I'm nitpicking. I just want to understand. No, you're fine. So it's not going to be someone like, dropping off at 11 and then someone dropping off at 1 in the morning and then 3 in the morning?

No, my time is 6 p.m. to 6 a.m. So that period covers them. So they can drop off at that designated time, 6 p.m. So if you're going to do overnight, that's that 6 p.m. to 6 a.m. Okay. That helps. Thank you so much.

That was my only question.

Okay. Any other comments? No, we need a motion.

Mr. Chairman, I would like to make a motion on conditional use permit request CUP2026-017 for approval.

Okay, we have a motion on the floor.

Second the motion.

Thank you. Any other comments? If not, Mr. Wine, please call for the vote.

Commissioners, please vote. Mr. Vice Chair, the motion is approved by a vote of seven to zero.

Okay, this conditional use permit was approved and will go before City Council on August the 19th, 2026, with our recommendation for approval. The next item on our agenda is exception request CEX 2026-00002, Princess Arch. Mr. Wine, please read the caption.

Yes, sir. Exception request CEX 2026-002-306, Princess Arch, submitted by Carrie Engler and Robert Nickerson, applicants and property owners, in accordance with Section 31415 of the Unified Development Ordinance to grant an exception to the development criteria and buffer area requirements of the Chesapeake Bay Preservation Area to permit the removal of an existing shed and construct a larger shed encroaching within the resource protection area buffer on property located at 306 Princess Arch, zoning map 20C, parcel 2-star-134. The affected area is further identified as being located in the Cypress Voting Bureau, zoned RLM, Residential Low-Medium Density Zoning District. The 2045 Comprehensive Plan designates this area as part of the Northern Growth Area Suburban Neighborhood Land Use Type. When you act on this request, you'll be acting on a resolution for a Chesapeake Bay Preservation Area Exception Request for property located at 306 Princess Arch, Zoning Map 20C, Parcel 2, Star 134, Account Number 304806000. Our staff planner, our environmental planner, Cassidy McKelvey, will present staff's report.

Thank you, Kevin. Good afternoon, Vice Chair and members of the Planning Commission. This Chesapeake Bay exception request is for the new construction of a shed that would encroach within the 100-foot resource protection area buffer. The subject parcel is located at 306 Princess Arch within the Suffolk Meadows subdivision. The 2045 Comprehensive Plan designates this area as part of the northern growth area and suburban neighborhood land use type. Both the subject and adjoining properties comprise single family detached dwellings zoned RLM for low, medium density residential use. The 100 foot RPA buffer extends landward of the tidal wetlands connected to a tributary of the Quaker Neck Creek located at the eastern portion of the property. The subject parcel was plotted in 2000, and the house was constructed in 2001. The existing pool and other accessory structures were constructed in 2004. Each of these events occurred following the establishment of the CBPA regulations. We were able to locate the permits for the existing dwelling and the pool. However, we have not located any records of mitigation measures that may have been required or implemented for these encouragements. Here I've zoomed in on the proposed project area. Shown in blue is the existing impervious area within the buffer that would be removed. This includes an existing 166 square foot shed and 350 square feet of concrete from the patio surrounding the pool. Highlighted in yellow is the portion of the new shed that would encroach within the RPA buffer. The proposed shed totals 384 square feet, 312 square feet of which would encroach within the buffer. The applicant further proposes to minimize disturbance within the buffer through the use of plywood barriers along the construction access path, which is outlined in green. Commissioners, there should have been an updated conditions page at your seat. A condition was included in the staff report for the use of these plywood barriers. However, they were accidentally left out of the draft PC resolution. When you consider this request, please do so with these updated conditions. As proposed, the total impervious area within the RPA buffer would be reduced by a total of 201 square feet following the completion of the project. To mitigate for the proposed disturbance and encouragement within the buffer, the applicant has proposed the above planting schedule. A total of 1,645 square feet of disturbance within the buffer is proposed. As such, the applicant has proposed installing a total of five planting units within the buffer, comprising five... five canopy trees, five understory trees, 12 large shrubs, 15 small shrubs. All proposed plantings are native to Virginia and are recommended species in the riparian buffer manual. Although the applicant is proposing to reduce the overall impervious area within the buffer, staff's main concern with this project is that there is area outside of the buffer where a shed could be placed in order to avoid this encroachment altogether. The intent of the regulations is to minimize all impervious cover and disturbance within the RPA buffer to protect water quality. The proposed shed is accessory and not necessary to support the primary use of the subject property. With available space outside of the buffer for the proposed shed, staff cannot consider this request to be the minimum necessary to afford relief. To recap, this request is to construct a new 384 square foot shed, 312 square feet would encroach within the buffer. The applicant proposes to remove the existing 166 square foot shed and 350 square feet of concrete from the buffer, as well as plant five planting units back within the buffer to mitigate for the proposed disturbance. This project would result in an overall 201 square foot reduction of impervious cover within the RPA buffer. Staff considers the circumstances of this request to be self-imposed as feasible alternatives exist that would not result in impacts to the buffer. Furthermore, this request is for an accessory structure that is not necessary to support the primary use of the subject property. Therefore, staff does not believe this request represents the minimum necessary to afford relief. Staff finds the exception request to construct a shed within the 100-foot resource protection area buffer does not satisfy the criteria outlined in Section 31-415 of the Unified Development Ordinance. Therefore, staff recommends denial of exception request CEX 2026-002. However, should this application be approved, staff recommends that it be approved with the updated conditions recommended by staff. And that concludes my presentation. I will stand by following the public hearing for any questions.

Thank you, Ms. McKelvey. We'll now open the public hearing. Who would like to come forward to speak in favor of this exception request? And please state your name and address, and you have ten minutes.

Hi, my name's Robert Nickerson. I live at 306 Princess Arch. We moved to Suffolk 13 years ago. When the shed started to deteriorate, we started this process almost a year ago to get quotes for a bigger shed so we could put our tools from the garage, the garden, lawn care, and pool items, plus things from the attic. We made a deposit with Emlyn Shed Company and started the approval process through the architectural review committee for our HOA. We got the approval in early January. The said company started the process to get permits and the Chesapeake Bay preservation requirements were brought to our attention. So we have been educated over the last several months and hired an environmental engineer to navigate the process. We evaluated locations for the shed that would have the least impact and what mitigation would be needed. Through this process, we looked at other locations, but it would require removing trees, could also infringe on setback requirements with the city requiring more permits and appeals, replace our pond that has naturally become a home for frogs, dragonflies, and other pollinators in the neighborhood with limited open water supply. And it would also eliminate our vegetable garden if we were to put the shed on that side of the house and block views from the windows of the house. We're requesting the shed placement gives back more sensitive area of the RPA. We're giving up some of our pool deck. We are providing the plantings required to offset the disruption. This is not, the shed is not out of character with the neighborhood. There are other sheds or detached shelters and buildings that are similar or larger in size. We respectfully ask that you approve this. In short, Cassidy mentioned all the Removal which is in the 50-foot buffer zone and the new shed will be in the hundred foot which is a less sensitive But also in the buffer zone The net gain is 204 feet of Net going back to mother nature and the trees that we have planned are all native the first file of forest if most of you know, it's either Sugar gum or to a poplar and this would definitely vary the population of our plantings. It was also mentioned that we might use our attic. Our attic consists of a platform of five foot three inches by seven feet eight, and it's five feet three tall. It's not a lot of attic space. It's not a good environment to keep luggage or anything. Christmas ornaments, I could just see it being self-inflammatory. I prefer not to store a garden shed. I mean, the tools for my garden shed in my garage, a lawnmower, open gas, pool chemicals, not in my garage necessarily. So the shed is part of something we need. And the fact that we're putting a larger shed than already exists, we're still giving Mother Nature 204 feet back. Thank you.

I'm Carrie Engler. I'm his wife. And I'm just up here supporting him and telling you that, please, we're giving you back.

You do have to take care of everything out there, I know. You have some time on this, extra time, if you want to say anything else. When I was out there, you mentioned something about the HOA. Yeah, I've got another one. Second.

Second. So our HOA requires any building to go through an architectural review committee. And so when we started the, oh, we want a bigger shed, we put together that package and got it approved by the architectural review committee in January. SO WE'VE ALREADY KIND OF GONE THROUGH THAT PROCESS. I'M ON THE HOA BOARD OF DIRECTORS. I'M THE TREASURER FOR THE HOA. SO I'VE HAD DISCUSSIONS ABOUT THIS WITH THE BOARD. SO AND WE'VE KIND OF DRIVEN AROUND THE REST OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD. THE NEIGHBORHOOD IS ABOUT 240 HOMES. And there are other residences that have kind of that garage that isn't really a garage because it doesn't have a driveway. So it's bigger than what we're proposing. There's one right behind us. There's a shed that's bigger than what we have. So this is not out of character with the neighborhood. at all. We're in a cul-de-sac and the whole Chesapeake Bay preservation was kind of a new thing for us. And so when it was brought up, we really wanted to understand it and make sure we're not hurting the environment and how can we help it and still get the space that we need to kind of have that little more storage. and make better use to actually put a car in our garage that we have. So that's what we're trying to achieve here.

Yeah, I won't be pushing them while we're around in 10 years, so I'm going to start thinking about a place to put a rider, you know. It is part of life.

Yep. Thank you for considering our proposal.

All right, thank you very much. Do you have anyone else that's speaking in favor of it? Is there anyone who would like to speak in opposition? All right, hearing none, we have some more time. Do you need any more time? Thank you. Public hearing is now closed. Commissioners, questions, comments? Motion.

YES, MR. CHAIRMAN. I DO HAVE QUESTIONS. FOR PLANNER, MS. CASSIDY. HELLO, COMMISSIONER. IN THE PACKAGE UNDERNEATH, I WOULD SAY THE STAFF REPORT UNDERNEATH CASE HISTORY, I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE I HEARD YOU CORRECTLY. YOU SAID THAT YOU WAS ABLE TO LOCATE THE PERMITS FOR THE EXISTING SHARED The fence, the deck, and the pond, you was able to find permits on those?

So we were able to locate the permits for the dwelling and for the pool. We weren't able to locate the permits for the other structures. According to aerial imagery, they appeared in 2004 around the same time as the pool. I'm not sure if at that time permits were still required for smaller accessory structures. but we don't have any permits for those items, but they appeared around the same time.

Okay. And at that time, um, it was already past the 50 foot buffer that was already into the 100 foot standard for the buffer. Correct. All right. So in your, um, and you're observing the property when you went out there, you said that they could put this shed in another location? Yes. That's outside the RPA?

Yes, their shed goes around to the left side of the house, or I guess the right side of the house if you're looking at it from the street. I have a diagram here. This is not showing, they have vegetation in that area next to the pond, but that area is outside of the buffer and they could put a shed, if not this shed, or this size of a shed, they could put sheds in that area. So, down.

Over here. Right there. Okay.

Okay. All right. Thank you. All right. One question for the homeowner, Mr. Engler.

I'm Mr. Nickerson. My name's Engler, but I answered all of you.

All right. Sir, I guess the city planner has worked with you on this project. I think I heard some of your concerns about the opposition of putting the shed in another location. I just want to make sure I heard you correctly, that it would, you say it would block windows?

Yes, my mother's sitting room and bedroom is on that side, so the shed would, there's windows right about where the arrow is. So that would just make a small corridor. And to give her any more light, the shed starts getting near the property line, the setback line. So we can't really go this way without going to an appeals to say, can we put a shed closer to our neighbor's property line? Taking out the trees on the right side of that rectangle. and moving it more towards the frog pond. Like I said, the frog pond, we go out in the backyard mosquito-free. Between the dragonflies and the frogs, there's an ecosystem running right there that maintains the mosquito lobby to almost nothing. I mean, we didn't put the frogs there. They showed up on their own. The turtles come in on their own. The dragonflies, there's no water outside of, We're talking about the little runoff creek. There's no open water for any pollinators in our neighborhood. Our vegetable garden wouldn't produce without bumble or bees and other insects. So it's a nice, healthy little thing. And just past the pond is a bunch of 20-year-old red maples. They'd have, you know... whether they get affected. They might if we have to change the shed and move it over. We have a shed in the 50-foot buffer. We'd like a shed in the 100-foot buffer, and you'll end up with more of Mother Nature exposed with our project. I just think we're giving back more to nature than we're taking. by removing the shed and putting a larger one in.

Have you thought about reducing the size that you're requesting?

And put it where?

The same location we're talking about.

And we'd still have a box outside my mother's bedroom. We'd still be taking down part of the fence, removing two or three trees minimum. Possibly having to deal with the setback and property lines with our neighbors So we that's why we didn't want to go to that side. There's no utilities on that side You know I Mean it is an inconvenient place for me to work which is one of the reasons I'm biased against it but obstructing the view and having to take down more trees instead of giving back five units worth of natural trees, granted the trees that would take down are not Virginia natives necessarily. I don't think Chinese maples are native. I forget what the other ones are.

just want to share with you with some of my concerns with the Chesapeake Bay Preservation Act because in your area right there in Suffolk Meadows as you know there's a lot of construction going on in that area right a lot of construction you know I just want to say you know we want to protect as much as we can up there especially you know with the runoff The trees, we want to protect as much as we can for the Chesapeake Bay Preservation Act. Unfortunately, some of these developers, they didn't really take into consideration 13 years ago with what we're fighting against now.

There's been two or three homeowners that this has gone through. They put the property up for sale and bought it. And this would not have been caught unless we brought our own architectural plots into the office. The office here was not aware that this was even a buffer zone until we showed it to them when we did our application.

Well, you said the planners wasn't aware or your HOA wasn't aware?

I don't believe the city of Suffolk knew about the 50-foot buffer when we originally applied. But when we came in to ask

kind of hey we're hearing we're in the chesapeake bay how do we go forward asking for an exception and stuff the original search into your into the city's system or whatever didn't flag us as being in the buffer zone so we're it may have come up eventually um but it doesn't seem like it was So evident that if it hadn't shown up on the plot drawing that we had provided with our permit drawings and stuff, that it would have been flagged by the city and their system when we just went for a shed permit. So we're not using that. It's on the plot. We get that. And we're trying to follow all the rules and give back and protect the environment and everything. BUT IT'S SOMETHING THAT MAY BE AN INCONSISTENCY IN THE SYSTEM FOR WHAT'S FLAGGING, WHAT SHOULD BE PROTECTED OR WHATEVER BECAUSE IT DIDN'T AUTOMATICALLY COME IN WHEN WE FIRST ASKED THE QUESTION ABOUT HOW DO WE DEAL WITH THIS AND STUFF. IT DIDN'T COME UP IN THE SYSTEM AUTOMATICALLY FALLING UNDER THAT BUTTON. ALL RIGHT.

THANK YOU. I APPRECIATE THAT. NOT A COMMENT.

I did have the opportunity to go out and look at it. The amazing thing to me was that there is a ravine. It's not wet. It's only wet when there's a culvert that comes off of that cul-de-sac that dumps into that wide ravine between where their house is and the other neighborhood. That ultimately goes into I guess ultimately it goes into the river or the creek out there. Does it go to the creek? Well, ultimately it does. That's why they're involved in it. Right. But it's an interesting, it's a pie shaped piece of property coming off the cul-de-sac. It's got a lot of land out there. But in any case, that was just a comment. Do we have any other comments or questions?

Otherwise, we need to have a question. I guess for the staff. Just for my clarification, with the mitigation that's being done with the multiple trees and the shrubbery, is that just taking into account the shed? or is that taking into account all of the areas that I encroach in?

It's taking into account all of the limits of disturbance. So there are limits of disturbance included with the removal of the concrete area. You can kind of see it. It's just south of that blue area of concrete. There's kind of a dashed line there that goes around to the existing shed, comes back around to the proposed shed, and connects to the house. So it's accounting for all of that disturbance. So that's the $1,600. 45 square feet of disturbance.

And to make sure currently there is no mitigation for what's already been disturbed.

Correct. That we know of. We don't have any records of it, whether it was required or implemented back in 2004 when the last piece of the development was done.

Make sure I understand. So if we go forward with this, what we're basically doing is self-correcting a lot of area that's already been encroached upon for a period of time.

Uh, that's one way that you could look at it. We don't, we don't look at it that way because what was approved and done, you know, by the books back then where we're not going to retroactively require anything. Uh, but I, I think that's one way that you could look at that.

Well, my question was, I just want to make sure that it wasn't something already there, but at this point moment, there is nothing there. Cause again, regardless of what's in happening in the 50 foot, um, cause regardless of 50 foot, it's going to be cleared. There's a whole lot already in the hundreds. and you're just moving what was in the 50 into the 100 and making it bigger. Is that correct?

Yes, sir.

All right.

I thought it was from the 100 to the 50.

No, it was in the 50-foot, but what's in blue, that's in the 50-foot. They're moving it over to be part. The yellow is going to be the new. That's going to still be in the 100. So nothing would be in the 50 based off the plans. Hold on. Excuse me. I'm not on the staff.

Excuse me.

No, yes, you're correct. So they would be moving all of the disturbance asides from like a portion of the fence, everything, all of the development would be moved out of the 50-foot seaward buffer and be moved into the further 100-foot buffer, further landward.

Thank you. I have one question for the applicant. I'm sorry to get you up and down.

I missed the gentleman.

My question is this, because really, when you really get down to the staff report, it really comes down to the mitigation of why is the shelter staying from, why is it going from 50 to 100 when there is a valuable alternative to be outside the Buffalo altogether? So my question to you, just in layman's terms, is the main issue, not blocking the view or is the main issue the ecosystem that you built on that side of the house? Because I need clarification because I'm hearing there is an alternative.

In theory, there's no ecosystem on the side of the house that the city's proposing has put a shed. There's only a lawn there and a couple of trees. There's really, I mean, outside of, I mean, an ecosystem needs, certain things and a lawn is not.

Excuse me. I thought maybe I misheard you. I thought you said it was the bees and the pond and all the things.

What they want. I might have to get rid of if they go to the other side of the house.

Say that again.

I would have to get rid of the pond possibly to put a shed in that area or it also goes into the front lawn and the lawn is really not an ecosystem but the pond The frogs showed up on their own. The dragonflies are everywhere.

Make sure I understand. So if you move the shed in this scenario, outside the 100-foot buffer, and move it over to the area that they're projecting, you're saying it's just a lawn now? It's just a yard now?

Part of it is a lawn, and part of it's the trees, the Chinese maple, and it could encroach into the pond as well. All right.

Thank you so much.

I didn't know if you were. The light blue is the shed. The light blue is also the long rectangle is the concrete. That's all getting taken out of the 50-foot buffer zone. The 50 and 100 foot. And even though we have a larger shed, there's still an extra 204 feet. that were given back to Mother Nature by removing concrete and removing an old shed. So it's a net gain for Mother Nature, even with a larger shed.

That's in the 50-foot?

Correct.

So what's behind that? What's all in the area, just going down?

It goes down to the headwaters of some creek. Okay.

It goes down to a ravine that's back behind their house. Got you.

And then it goes up the other side, and there's the rest of the development that goes around there. So that shed is old. You can't use it anymore you don't want to use it in you want something bigger it's starting to deteriorate So we you know, we want to make sure it doesn't just fall apart in our backyard. So we were you know, we could have just put in this, you know, just a little bit but we said Hey, we'd like to have a little bit more storage, and we have things organized a whole lot better that are useful for us, and let's make it bigger.

And that's why the city denied it. That's why the plan has denied it.

We originally wanted a big shed in the 50-foot area, and we found out about the preservation. It's like, okay, so not in the 50. Let's move it over to the 100. Okay.

We wanted it in the exact same space, just bigger. And when we found out, oh, no, you can't do that. That's on the seaward side, especially of the RPA. So we worked with the environmental engineer to kind of say, how can we mitigate to get the shed on the side that's most useful for us to use our property the way we want to? And what can we give back that's in the spirit of the preservation? And that was, if we bring it forward, we're in the 100-foot buffer. We're giving back everything on the seaward side. We're giving back some of our decks. So we're giving back more and putting all the plantings in and accounting for what's going to happen when we're doing the construction.

OK, thank you.

No need to keep having this conversation. Let the chips fall where they may. I recommend approval of 2026-002 and all the requests that need to be made along with it. All right. We have a motion for approval.

I second. So to make sure the record's clear, this is a motion for approval with the amended conditions.

With the conditions. Yeah, with the conditions. I couldn't get the word at that time, so I created my own word.

As indicated by the conditions. Yes. Okay. Is there anyone who would like to speak in opposition? No. Okay. It's now closed. Hearing's now closed. And we've got a motion. Can we have the vote?

Commissioners, please.

For approval.

Approval, yes. Yes means yes.

Vice Chairman, the motion passes by a vote of five to two.

Okay, so this motion was approved. So there's no city council action, so you don't have to go to city council for this request. So this body is your final stop, so congratulations. Thank you. Okay, the next item on the agenda is the Ordinance Text Amendment OTA 2026-006. Mr. Wine, will you please read the caption? Yes, sir.

Ordinance Text Amendment OTA 2026-006, initiated by the City of Suffolk for amendments to Sections 31406C, 31407C, 31408B, 31602A, 31602B, 31602C, 31603E, 31606A, 31701C, and 31724 of the Unified Development Ordinance of the City of Suffolk. When you act on this request, you'll be acting on a resolution to present a report and recommendation to City Council relating to Ordinance Text Amendment OTA 2026-006. Once again, Staff Planner Caitlin Alpit will provide an overview of these amendments.

Hello, good afternoon again. Before we get started, I want to call to your attention, you would have received a printout copy of Exhibit B. I'll talk about, there's a slight tweak from the version that was in your staff report, which I'll talk about in the presentation. What I recommend as I go through the presentation, we can follow along in your exhibit B, which will highlight those different items that we'll be talking about. And I'll tell you kind of what page we're on and what section we're in so you can follow along with me. So what the essence of this text amendment is, is essentially General Assembly had a very busy session in spring this year. And what resulted from that were a slate of bills that were ultimately approved by the governor that had a couple of impacts as a result really relates to zoning and land use. And a number of those do impact our unified development ordinance and necessitated updates and changes to that. Additionally, in some of those sections that we did have to update because of those state code amendments, some minor what we call housekeeping items as well, because we were in the same table and there was something in there kind of getting it at the same time. So a little bit of that in here as well as those state mandated necessitated changes. So in some, Kevin already listed them out, so I won't repeat his efforts there, but these are all the sections that I'LL BE KIND OF WALKING THROUGH IN THIS PRESENTATION AND WALKING THROUGH THE DIFFERENT UPDATES AND CHANGES THAT ARE PROPOSED. SO TO START, I'M GOING TO HAVE YOU SKIP FORWARD A LITTLE BIT. THE ENTIRE USE TABLE IS IN YOUR EXHIBIT B. SO IF YOU WANT TO FLIP THROUGH ABOUT 13 PAGES TO 407. House Bill 1212 was passed by the General Assembly. And what that is essentially is a state mandates around small lot zoning. What the state required in this case is a single family zoning district with a minimum lot size of no more than 3,000 square feet and then a width of no more than 30 feet. And it required all localities in the Commonwealth to have a zoning district for a single family that fit that standard. With 50,000 or more population Suffolk is within that criteria necessitating some updates to our zoning districts Fortunately, we have a zoning district already that is near that criteria. Are you 12? That's residential urban 12 It's close it permits single-family detached dwellings and has a minimum lot size currently of three thousand six hundred and thirty square feet our proposal is to just modify that slightly and reduce that to three thousand and 600 to 3,000 square feet. Additionally, it currently has a minimum lot width of 50 feet. We would propose to reduce that to 30 to comply with state code. What you'll see in the table is we also adjusted the width of RU 18. That's a little bit more intense denser zoning district. Again, it follows that if you're going to have, and that's a 40 foot minimum width. So just for continuity, it doesn't make a lot of sense to have it be 30, 40, and then back down again. So we're proposing just to make it 30, 30, and then down to you have your DISTRICTS THAT DON'T HAVE WIDTHS. WHILE WE ARE IN THIS TABLE, AGAIN IN 31-407, YOU'LL NOTICE THAT FOR VILLAGE CENTER RESIDENTIAL THAT'S ON THAT NEXT PAGE, VC RESIDENTIAL, CURRENTLY DOESN'T ACTUALLY HAVE A MINIMUM LOT FRONTAGE OR LOT WIDTH REQUIREMENT. IN PRACTICALITY, THIS PRESENTED SOME ISSUES, PARTICULARLY WE SEE A LOT BEING PROPOSED IN A RESIDENTIAL SUBDIVISION THAT DIDN'T HAVE ANY ROAD FRONTAGE. IT'S NOT AN IDEAL SCENARIO. This is really intended to correct that by adding a minimum 35-foot frontage on a public road and then a 45-foot lock width. Additionally, we're proposing to adjust the minimum setback to 10 feet, and we're adding a 20-foot maximum setback. The idea for that is, again, this is village center, so these allowances we would want kind of closer to the main street near the sidewalk. We don't want the house to set back very far in a new build. VC zoning, centers of villages. So that's kind of the idea behind that. While we're in the table, we have a footnote, footnote number eight that discussed how fractional numbers were treated and currently reads fractions are just rounded out. That's a bit odd, especially in the context of when you do math as it relates to density calculations. So we're proposing to update that to state that if you were to do a density calculation for residential and it resulted in a number of like a decimal of like 7.6, you would round that up to eight. If you were below that and you say you got a number of 7.3, you would round that down to seven. That's standard practice. All right, jumping ahead again. So this is a little bit of a larger topic. We could talk about manufactured housing. So before I talk about what the state did this year, I wanna clarify a few terms and provide some context. For manufactured housing, there's kind of really two categories you'll see. First is that pre-1976, like a pre-HUD mobile home. These were constructed before those federal regulations that are nationwide. And so with those, you'll see the tow hitch is exposed, and they're pretty distinct. Post-1976, HUD has a federal nationwide standard for the manufacture of manufactured homes. So and again, they have these like red tags that go on the inside that certifies their safety and their construction So that's what you kind of see more on the right, but those are kind of the two units We see you're not gonna see any like pre 1976 style Manufactured housing built. They all have to comply to that federal HUD standard now You'll hear two terms kind of being thrown around to modular housing and manufactured housing it's well, they're both prefab. How are they different and MODULAR HOUSING IS THE TERM AS WE USE IT IN THE CITY AND GENERALLY IN THE STATE OF VIRGINIA ARE PREFAB HOUSING THAT IS ON A PERMANENT FOUNDATION AND HAS TO COMPLY WITH UNIFORM STATEWIDE BUILDING CODE. MANUFACTURED HOUSING IS BUILT TO THE HUD STANDARD. CURRENTLY THEY'RE USUALLY ON A STEEL CHASSIS AND THEY STAY THERE BUT THAT'S BUILT TO THAT FEDERAL HUD STANDARD. MODULAR IS BUILT TO THE STATEWIDE BUILDING CODE. SO THOSE ARE DIFFERENT. SO WHAT THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY DID THIS YEAR, HOUSE BILL 655. AS THIS READS, THIS REQUIRES LOCALITIES IN THE COMMONWEALTH TO PERMIT MANUFACTURED HOUSING IN SINGLE FAMILY ZONING DISTRICTS WHERE SITE BUILT SINGLE FAMILY ATTACHED HOMES ARE PERMITTED AS A MATTER OF RIGHT ON AN INDIVIDUAL LOT. LOCALITIES CAN STILL HAVE DESIGN STANDARDS, SETBACKS, THINGS LIKE THAT, BUT YOU CAN'T STRUCTURE YOUR SINGLE FAMILY ZONING DISTRICT IN A WAY THAT by effect excludes the manufactured house. You have to allow the route to exist to be placed on the lot. So that necessitates some changes. And one of the first places we're going to see that at the very front of Exhibit B, you have the table of land uses second page. This is our table of principal uses. We have a line in there for manufactured homes. So currently, these are permitted in agricultural district. Now it's going to have to be permitted everywhere in all the residential zoning districts. So you'll see the little red P added. Additionally, we have other districts where single family detached dwellings are permitted, VC, CBD, and FRRD. So these would have to be permitted in those districts as well. Struck we struck a reference to thirty one seven twelve that's in the supplemental use standards and that actually just ties back to the manufactured housing standards in Article six which we're going to be modifying a little bit to have uniform standards. So we struck that reference as well Thirty one four eight be contained standards that were specific for manufactured housing specifically agricultural again a States requiring us to allow it in all the residential zoning districts, so we're striking those specific standards. Additionally, we're striking in Article 6, 602 , those are the specific standards for manufactured houses, which are made kind of redundant by the state bill. And so how we're going to be treating this, again, is having uniform single-family design standards for whether it be stick-built, modular, manufactured. We added some language to our design standards. So again, if you're following along with me in Exhibit B, I am in Article 6, Section 602A. We added some language to the purpose statement. This is just a statement that talks about the purpose of that section of the UDO, what that does. Why do we have design standards? So adding some language about supporting economic development activities, encouraging quality housing stock by ensuring construction method parity through uniform performance standards. Skipping ahead, we added some language again, reiterating those uniform design standards, providing for compatibility between site-built, modular, and manufactured housing, and making sure new development is harmonious with established character of the city's neighborhoods. A little bit of a segue. This is one of those housekeeping amendments while we were in the section. In B2, it talks about mechanical equipment screening, just adding a clarification. If it's a single-family detached house, you can screen your mechanical or HVAC. You need to do that through a fence or architectural screening or landscaping that's compatible with primary structure. I'm going to talk a little bit about the proposed uniform single family design standards. So as currently written, we have about four and structured a little bit unique in that some of them currently say it is recommended. And so what we're proposing is to make some of these requirements. The front facade fenestration requirement and the side and rear facade fenestration requirement that are already in the ordinance, but again, structured as recommendations, we're proposing to modify to be requirements. We've added clarification as it relates to open space for condos. These would be detached or attached single family residential in a condominium form of ownership. Again, in practice, how we calculate open space for that is we use the square footage requirement for multifamily, that's 200 square feet per unit. It's not codified anywhere in the UDO. We're posing to do that here just to make that clear. Additionally, we're adding a recommendation for porches and stoops. This would be applicable to the primary entrance of a dwelling from the street, having a five foot deep porch or stoop that's covered. A recommendation again, as it refers to having like a recessed garage, it's going to be set back just a little bit from the living space facade or the stoop or the porch. And then if you have a lot that is less than 50 feet wide, garage door shouldn't be taking up more than 50% of the front elevation of the house. The additional requirement, again, this is thinking about manufactured houses, addressing narrow homes. If you have a house that's less than 20 feet in width, it needs to be flipped so that long side is facing the street. What we really want to avoid, and you see this in manufactured houses a lot, is The short side of the house like won't have any windows And so we want to make sure that we're not having those like stacked up. So that's facing the street Compatible with the neighborhood and it looks nice Those are just some elevations of homes again kind of showing some of these design standards and practice the recommendations and requirements Where you have the porch and stoop the garage setback? That's a single level house as an example. I We have some specific standards that this is really particular for manufactured homes. And this language in this section, and this is an E, actually comes right out of state code. So manufactured houses that are put on lots need to have a certificate of occupancy within five years of the certification date of manufacture. They have to be converted into real property in accordance with state code. That's a little complicated. I printed it out. If we need to refer back to it, what essentially that means is it's when it's on the chassis, it is treated as like DMV, sort of like it's property through DMV. And so when it's taken off the chassis, you can convert it to real property on land. Again, that's a requirement of the state bill and that state code as it's written now. Additionally, manufactured houses should conform to the International Conference of Building Officials guidelines for manufactured housing installations. There is a waiver provision for manufactured housing as it relates to if there is some functional engineered reason why it can't adhere to the standards in the section. There's a waiver request that they can put into the director to afford relief in order to construct the house under special circumstances. Similarly, another reduction or waiver Granted, at the director's discretion for that whole section, if a developer builder can demonstrate a design conflict, if you have an existing neighborhood, you're doing infill development, and you're putting a house in, it's not going to conform with the character of the rest of the houses. Similarly, if there's superseding design, so it's in a planned development that already has adopted design guidelines, those take precedence. or through legally guaranteed if it's an affordable housing project, universal design project, and then relief from the requirements are necessary to make that function, there is a mechanism for a reduction or waiver of standards in that case. All right. Section 602C3, don't panic. You see it struck out. We didn't take it away. For the reading order, we've moved that. So as you would read 602, that section, you see multifamily, single family, and this is that right under the detached single families, attached single family. We're not changing any of the standards for attached single family. Added just a kind of a clarifying statement, shall be permitted in accordance with all the above standards, and that applies to also townhouses and multiplex dwellings. We didn't change anything in law with their setbacks. All right. We're going to move forward to Section 31606, which contains our parking standards. Is there another? General Assembly Bill, House Bill 888, was passed. And what this did is, again, another statewide mandate that reduced parking minimums that could be required in proximity to a mass transit station or facility. I want to add a little bit of clarification because there's Been a little bit of confusion just for various localities of what does that mean? And our interpretation is that that term of, again, mass transit. So the bill very clearly defines what mass transit is. It's trains, buses. It's not like school bus routes. It's public transportation. And that being, again, within a transit station. So this isn't like a bus stop, a singular bus stop. This would be a station or facility, like a bus transfer station or a rail station. So how we've kind of opted to handle that is then we have a table that lays out off-site parking, off-street parking, excuse me, minimums and maximums. We've created two footnotes because we list out the different parking requirements for like detached single family, townhouses, other kinds of residential dwellings, and two footnotes of footnote one and footnote two. The first footnote talks about, and again, this is language that's out of the state code, For single family detached or attached dwellings or townhouses, if you're within a half mile of a transit station, your minimum parking gets reduced down to one space per unit. That second footnote, minimum parking for a multi-family dwelling, goes down to half a space per unit if it's in the half mile of the transit station. Another part of the state bill talked about parking reductions and required localities, if you already didn't have provisions for administrative waivers, to incorporate those along with criteria. In the UDO, we actually have a clause already that allows a developer to request a up to 10% reduction. There's a lot of criteria in there. They have to really show us why is that needed and necessary. So that's not a major change on our end. All we do is the state says you have to allow up to 20% or consideration of up to 20%. So we've changed that. This isn't necessarily a state mandate, but another bill was passed, Senate Bill 26, that states that localities can require solar canopies in parking lots. We've opted not for necessarily a mandate approach, but for an incentive approach. And what that looks like is, for the draft language, if you have a parking lot with over 100 spaces, if you install a solar canopy over more than 50% of the lot, you can get Reductions in your landscaping requirement doesn't make a lot of sense to plant trees underneath the solar canopy Again, there are still design requirements there, you know You can't be over 15 feet in height subject to special quarter overlay districts scott setbacks and buffers But again, just kind of incentivizing installation of solar canopies as a caveat. I'm from the state of Arizona We have a lot of those out there. They're great at providing shade, especially for those large parking lots. I So this is just a quick summary showing what we've done in the table. I talked about those footnotes that are conjunction with that state bill regarding parking, transit. Again, this is a minor housekeeping while we are in the table as it relates to religious assembly. So right now we calculate minimum parking for religious assembly based on fixed seats. A lot of churches now don't have fixed seats. They have more flexible spaces and so what we're opting to do instead of having like a space per this number of fixed seats is having it per square footage of assembly area. The new proposal is one space per 60 square feet of assembly and then the maximum would be one per 40 square feet of assembly area. For restaurants, we're not changing anything here. This is probably just a typo. When the table is being drafted, it flipped the minimum and the maximum, so we're just changing it to be correct. And striking out bars and nightclubs as that's not a permitted use. All right, battery energy storage. So some of you might remember in February UOL and then in March, city council adopted amendments to the UDO as regards to battery energy storage. I'm gonna refer to that as BESS for the sake of brevity in the M2 zoning district. And as it was adopted at that time, it was a specific accessory use to a manufacturing use in the M2 zoning district. And the language is very specifically excluded solar energy facilities as allowing BESS as an accessory. During this year's General Assembly session, the General Assembly passed and then the governor signed a bill, those are the bill references, HB891 and SB347, that requires localities, which was effective July 1st of this year, to allow battery energy storage and accessory use to a permitted solar facility. With some criteria, fortunately, that A, we already have standards that, again, were adopted by City Council in March that cover a lot of things about BESS, like where it can be located and buffers, we can preserve those standards. Additionally, the storage capacity of the BESS cannot exceed the nameplate capacity of the solar facility. If I have a solar facility for 15 megawatts, my BESS has to be for 15 megawatts. I can't use it as a way to store extra energy on the grid. It has to be accessory nameplate with the solar facility. So what that looks like in the code, again, visiting that section that was recently adopted, striking out the language that, again, we have that language of it's currently permitted in M2 with a manufacturing use, striking out it's not permitted including the solar facilities, and pretty much adding the language from the state code allowing battery energy storage as a permitted accessory use if you have a solar facility that's permitted by conditional use permit subject to these criteria. Again, it's still subject to the design criteria and standards and the supplemental use standards specifically that are already in place and not exceeding the name capacity. State also passed some other mandates as it relates to solar facilities. This is a very active session as it relates to energy and solar. HB71 and SB374. Fortunately, the state still permits or allows localities to require conditional use permits for solar facilities. A couple of new criteria. The state says if the locality doesn't have it, there's a separate thing called a siting agreement that a locality can do with a solar provider, and then if that You don't have a siting agreement, you can't deny ACUP and that being the sole reason. Requiring decommissioning agreements, we already require decommissioning agreements in our supplemental use regulations. Also requires localities to report now to the state corporation commission all denials of solar facility conditional use permits and the reasons for those denials. So looking at these bills question, and we've had a lot of conversation with the city attorney is, you know, what does that mean for our supplemental regulations in the UDO? Many of our current supplemental regulations do still comply with the state code, especially as it relates to a lot of language in there about setbacks and having distances from sensitive environmental areas and buffers. We have a lot of that already in our supplemental standards. Additionally, I want to call out our comprehensive plan sets forth a number of policies that support our supplemental standards that's currently adopted. IN REGARDS TO THE NEW STATE BILL, THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, BECAUSE WE'VE DIVIDED THE STANDARDS IN THE POLICIES, THE POLICIES SUPPORT WHAT WE HAVE IN THERE AND THUS WE'RE COMPLIANT WITH THE SPIRIT OF THE STATE CODE. SO WHAT WE'VE DONE IS ADD SOME LANGUAGE AGAIN TO OUR PURPOSE SECTION THAT JUST TIES BACK TO EVERYTHING THAT'S IN 724 AND STANDARDS IS NOT INTENDED TO CONFLICT WITH STATE LAW. LANGUAGE ADDED TO SECTION B. THIS TALKS ABOUT CONSISTENCY OF THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN. THIS IS REQUIRED BY THE STATE THAT WHEN THESE COME BEFORE A PLANNING COMMISSION, PLANNING COMMISSION HAS TO CONSIDER HOW THE PROPOSAL IS IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN. WE'VE ADDED SOME CLARIFYING LANGUAGE THAT A SOLAR FACILITY THAT COMES IN AS A CUP MAY BE DEEMED SUBSTANTIALLY IN ACCORD WITH THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN IF IT'S PROPOSED LOCATION SIZE AND CHARACTER CLOSELY ALIGNS WITH THE PLAN'S INTENT IS DESIGNATIONS AS SPECIFIED. All right, I know that was a lot. Thank you for being with me. So again, just to kind of wrap us up, these changes are being driven a lot by changes in the state code, and we're trying to bring the UDO into compliance with the state code. And again, those incidental minor cleanups that are in the same section. So with all that in mind, we're recommending this application be forwarded to city council with the recommendation of approval as written. Thank you so much. I'll be standing by for questions after the public hearing.

Thank you.

Thank you very much. I hope this was not a test. We don't have to have a test on this, right?

Actually.

Well, now open the public hearing. Who would like to come forward to speak in favor of this ordinance text agreement? I think it's all been said, right? Thank you. Is there anyone who would like to speak in opposition? No, no opponents. Is there anything else needs to be said? I think it was, it was all very comprehensive in that a lot of moving parts, uh, to this. And a lot of it, as you said in your, your recommendation, it's the changes are being proposed to comply with the new state laws. and also the cleanups that we had here. So that's kind of what we're going to be voting on. So public hearing is now closed. Commissioners, questions, comments? Followed by a motion.

I make a motion for approval of 2020-6006. OF THIS PLAN.

WE HAVE A MOTION ON THE FLOOR. I'LL SECOND. ANY ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS?

YES, MR. CHAIRMAN. THERE'S A LOT OF INFORMATION IN THIS PACKAGE. FOR EACH ONE OF THESE CHANGES, I KNOW SOME OF THEM ARE COMING FROM THE STATE, WHAT IS THE ABSOLUTE DROP DEAD DATELINE THAT WE HAVE TO MAKE THESE CHANGES? DO WE HAVE TO MAKE THEM NOW?

Well, I believe actually most and all of these actually had an effective date of July 1st, 2026. As you know, state code does supersede the UDO, so it's in effect now. So we would like these amendments as soon as possible so we can get it to compliance with state law and those bills that did have an effective date of July 1st of this year.

Oh, you're probably looking at me.

I'm sorry.

So I'm just making sure. I mean, there's a lot of information in here. And I remember discussing this at the UDO meeting that was 30 days ago. Now it's before us. It's still a lot of information to go through.

Yeah. IT'S A LOT. I WILL SAY THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY AND I THINK THIS IS JUST BECAUSE OF HOW THINGS SHOOK OUT POLITICALLY, THERE WAS A LOT OF BILLS PASSED THIS YEAR. I MEAN, THE VOLUME, I WOULD SAY, WAS GREAT, PRETTY SIGNIFICANT THIS YEAR, ESPECIALLY AS RELATED TO THINGS THAT AFFECTED US.

OKAY. SO IF WE DO DECIDE TO MOVE FORWARD AND JUST PASS, IT GOES TO CITY COUNCIL AND IT PASSES AT CITY COUNCIL. Do we still have opportunity at some point where we find out that what is in this package doesn't work, we can amend it?

So the Planning Commission may initiate amendments to the Unified Development Ordinance at your pleasure. And so if the commission would like to bring forth an amendment to any part of the UDO, you can do that.

OK, I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE WE HAVE SOME OPTIONS HERE. IF WE SAY YES TODAY AND COUNCIL SAYS YES AND WE FIGURE OUT, HEY, SOMETHING THAT WAS WRITTEN IN HERE IS NOT CORRECT, THAT WE HAVE OPPORTUNITY TO AMEND THIS.

YEAH, AND I WILL SAY WE WORKED hopefully establish any concerns. We've worked extensively on this for quite some time. Again, we've worked with our city attorney to make sure that there isn't conflicts with state code and that we're complying with state law and making sure these are regulations that work for the city.

Okay. That's all I wanted to know.

I could comment slash question. Probably city attorney. Excellent presentation. That was a ton of information. I don't think you misspoke once, so I'm really impressed. I'm on the ordinance committee, and Meg did a great presentation also for us on all this stuff. One thing I must have been snoozing on, I don't know how I missed this, was the reporting the reason for denial to the state corporation commission as a requirement for any time we deny a CEP for solar. Because we've done that a few times. I just wanted to know, is that specific? I mean, they're not trying to micromanage Suffolk. why we don't do things we don't want to do. I'm sorry, I'm not speaking eloquently, but is that more so to make sure it's not for a reason that we're not allowed to deny? Please expand on that if you don't mind.

So I believe the State Corporation Commission is going to compile a list of every time a locality denies them and they will have a list. And It may get reported to the General Assembly. The purpose behind it, I can't answer that. The bill's sponsor would have to answer that question to you. It's a new requirement for City Council to give the State Corporation Commission a reason for why it was denying a permit for a solar facility. I believe that this was a compromise because the bill originally started out with they could appeal to the State Corporation Commission And the State Corporation Commission could then approve it even if City Council said no. So this is sort of backing off of that requirement. But we will have that obligation going forward for any application that's filed after July 1st.

Thank you. That's interesting. I know everybody's dying to get out of here, sorry. But do you have, in your experience, see this for any other type of CUP or similar application I understand it's somewhat political, but is this something that exists for other things that we do as a body where we're denying or approving things that we go on a list?

So it's probably harder for other things. Solar facilities fall under electrical utilities, which are managed by the State Corporation Commission, so that's a good housing place for it, you know, I can't think of anything else that has sort of a regulatory body like that that would compile lists, but it doesn't mean that the General Assembly won't create that in the future, depending on how this works out.

They're kind of forcing their will on us, correct? Is that right amount, Steve?

So the Commonwealth of Virginia is what is called a Dillon Rule State, which means that a local government only has the powers that is given to it by the General Assembly. So they do have the authority to tie our hands and tell us what we can and cannot do.

Whether we agree or disagree. That is correct.

Any other comments? If not, we've got a motion seconded. Mr. Wine, please call for the vote.

Commissioners, please vote. Mr. Vice Chair, the motion passes by a vote of six to one.

Thank you. This ordinance text amendment was approved and will go before the city council. Good luck, John Rector. Councilman. On August the 19th, without recommendation for approval. Okay, that ends the public portion of this. We'll go to old business. Is there any other old business that we need to be looking at? If not, any new business status report for the results?

Yes, sir. All right, at City Council's meeting of June 17th, there were three, I'm sorry, four items that went before them. The first being companion items for a rezoning and a conditional use permit associated with the Mount Lebanon Missionary Baptist Church there at 1000 Film Way. The rezoning was approved with the proffers as submitted by the applicant and the CEP with the conditions as recommended by staff. Additionally, there was... two ordinance text amendments associated with accessory uses and structures in our definition section, and both of those ordinance text amendments were passed.

Okay, and there were no preliminary flats approved.

No preliminary plots. And sorry, one correction. One of those ordinance tax amendments related to accessory dwelling units, that was actually deferred to city council's meeting next month on August 19th.

Great. Okay. We're down to commissioner's comments. We'll start on this side. Commissioner comments.

Yes, ma'am. One thing before moving to the commissioner's comments. Back to new business. The appointments to the UDO committee, that was supposed to happen today?

It's going to be done next.

Next meeting.

By the chairman.

Okay. Next month. Next month. All right. Just clarification on that. All right. Now we're moving into the commissioner's comments. I know it's been quite a long day. I appreciate all the input comments from my fellow commissioners here. And welcome on board for the ride, Mr. Bosserman. Welcome aboard. Other than that, what month is this, July? Yep, everybody have a rest of your day. That's all I have. I'm kind of tired. I apologize. I got off the airplane at 1 o'clock this morning. I'm tired. I'm sorry. Everyone have a good day.

Yeah, thanks for everybody sticking through a long meeting. Thanks to the department for your thorough work. I do hope there'll be a little bit of an expansion at city council on some of the ordinances. Even though I was part of the committee and got to hear an extensive presentation on that, I think as it was expressed towards the end of our meeting, our hands are somewhat tied, I feel like, and so it does sound like a lot coming from over our heads from the state. If there's any room that we can you know hopefully there will be more discussion there so it's more further clarified I kind of felt like we had to decide on compliance and housekeeping but today was a good meeting I'm glad everybody was here welcome to our new commissioner and hope everybody has a great rest of their week I'd like to thank everybody for the opportunity to serve here that put me here

on the city council. And I look forward to working with the people here. I think there's a lot to learn here. I think it's a lot of things could have different views on, but that's always in anything we do. All that coming down from the state, that was a great presentation. Don't get me wrong. But that was a lot of information to comprehend at one time, especially for somebody who just came on here. I can't vote for anything that I'm trying to take in all that information at one time, much less have somebody telling me I have to vote for it. That takes away democracy as far as I'm concerned. So that's just where I stand on them. I might think different from everybody else in going forward, but that's just the way I am. But I look forward to working with y'all.

We do have, David, we do have a committee on ordinances that we meet. And we have, just for your information, we have covered a number of those items. We have people that are on commissioners that serve on that. So we have seen a number of those items that came up today in the ordinance and on the committee. And ultimately, what this does, we'll be changing our UDO, Uniform Development Ordinance, once it's all approved by council. So that's kind of where we are on that.

I'm just saying, I wasn't there for any of that.

We all understand, and it's new. For anybody who comes on this committee, it's a moving train, and we understand that. So please...

join in with the questions if you do have any okay reverend nice to have you here thank you for allowing selena and i to move up from junior members to now uh more veteran status and i look forward to hanging out in danville next week with you and uh And the Reverend here, as we gamble, I mean, not gamble, but as we work hard, work hard. I didn't say, that's off record. Council.

I don't know if we're still on TV or not.

It doesn't matter.

Johnny. Mr. Wang.

Thank you. I did want to take an opportunity, as we do, we continue to be a growing department, and I think we're fully staffed at this point. Never thought I'd ever say that again. But we're very fortunate to welcome a new planner with us, Carl Schultz, who has been with us for a couple weeks now. So you'll be seeing him, I'm sure, in front of you all presenting cases before we know it. But we're very excited to have him, and I just wanted to welcome Carl and introduce you all to him.

Hey, Carl, welcome. We're looking forward to seeing you. I have one comment. I did attend the opening of the new library. I don't know if anybody else was there and saw a result of what we had talked about here and also council had talked about. I know council was there, well represented. And I encourage everyone to treat yourself to go as soon as possible. The library was designed to create a space so it has something for everyone, promoting literacy and improving our quality of life. It features an amazing children's area. I mean, it's amazing. That building is certainly going to be an addition to the downtown area. I mean, it's something that our area does not have. I mean, it's a library, but it's more than just books. It has an inviting teen room, large and small meeting rooms, digital lab maker, quiet reading areas, outdoor patio and study spaces. And with the commitment from the city leaders and under the leadership of Director Clint Rudy, supported by his staff, who are just amazing, Suffolk has a hub for the community where we can all connect. It's an amazing place. If you haven't had the opportunity to go, I would encourage you to go see it. Does anybody else have any comments? If not, you know, it's been a long meeting. Meeting's adjourned.