Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

Thank you.

Is it the 1% from your Stockton location will then go to the Stockton community?

All of the money stays local for each store? So every single store has its own advisory board and its own investment fund. And the investment fund is really, I think, only half of the equation. It's the money, certainly, but the other half are the partners locally that we work with who help advise us on notable causes and volunteerism. So that's how that functions.

And then how do you select your advisory board?

So it's by recommendations of the community. We've been on a multi-year listening tour here and Josh has spent some time, Devon who is no longer, she's with us, she's now running for Santa Barbara City Council, so she's stepped away, but she's spent the last two years, two, three years having coffees with folks as she's built this concept. We often don't select the board until after we've been approved to open in order to ensure that it's not politicized. But we take recommendations from the community and then the board really does self-select within itself. So folks can apply to be on it and the board is a pretty

just to go backwards really quickly for one second to your first question to you know in it I appreciate the recognition that it's voluntary and in most we've volunteered to do this in each of the communities we serve and we provide a record to the cities as part of our license renewal process to demonstrate that we've done this so there is a mechanism for you to know that we are actually doing what we say we will do I appreciate that I'm just I'm just mindful of someday you guys could sell out to some

your capital fund or whatever that goes away. But I'll take it in the meantime. I had one other question. Let me think it through. Oh. Well, I don't remember now.

Sorry. I think I disrupted your flow.

You're fine. I Oh, I know what it was. This is an isolated... I don't know anything about this business. Well, I know that I've driven by some and they're smelly. But not here in town. When I lived in Sacramento, there was one down the street. I was very happy what you said about making sure people don't smoke it on site because... That drove me crazy But I just wondering about do you in regards to the 1% so do you have any projections because as a result of it you're isolated from Residential I don't imagine people walk over but

So this site why we why we like the site because I think that drives the economic considerations We like the site because it's five miles about five miles from the other location So there's kind of in Stockton if you look at where the dispensaries are really concentrated. There's several areas This is an area of Stockton that was really underserved for cannabis What we look at is trip generation studies of you know, we look at we look at traffic counts the Starbucks anchor there and drives a significant amount of traffic to that center. We have ample parking, so you have a Starbucks, you have gas. So this is more of a convenience purchase that's five miles away from any other dispensary. And if we look at the addressable population there, well above the one dispensary per 15,000 ratio that we really kind of benchmark our decisions on, we have a greater density of population within that five mile radius. And because of that, we believe this store will do somewhere between $3 million annual revenue and $10 million in annual revenue. And I know that's a wide range, but consumption patterns for communities are wildly different. So what we do is we underwrite it at the lower amount of the $3 million just to ensure that we're putting forward a sustainable business. And then anything above and beyond that is great for everybody.

Thank you. Excellent. Any other questions?

I'm waiting for my fellow commissioners.

Well, you can jump in there because it's so far.

I think I'm done.

Commissioner Ahman, did you have a question? I see you chatting with staff.

Sorry. So, I know, I know, I know. I have read through all of your stuff that you have here and I don't know. I know you're talking about you're going to have security so that, you know, nobody's out there getting high in their cars and things like that. I just, I don't know how that can kind of be guaranteed. I know that when all the other cannabis places that are here were all pre-me cannabis, So I don't really know what was asked or anything, but I do know what the cannabis places look like now. And that's one of my larger concerns as to what this kind of turns into later. You know, you start off one way and then it kind of changes later, and I just don't know how that can be guaranteed. I guess that's my question to you as far as people not... taking the product, and then right when they get in their car, they're sitting there using the product, and then they drive off, so.

Well, a couple of things, and I think that's a fair concern, because not all operators are created equally, and I really will say that, and I think that the cannabis industry does have a lot to prove. There are certain colleagues that we have, we started I don't mean to meander here, but I think it's germane. So we started the California Cannabis Operators Association because we wanted to advocate for state policies. We represent about 600 dispensaries in California, and I will tell you, our 600 colleagues in that organization are wildly different as far as their operational standards. I think you can look at our track record in every other community where we operate, not having any issues whatsoever, and that's something that staff can validate. But separate and apart from that, you all have a voter-backed and passed ordinance that is incredibly robust. So when it comes to any complaints, we're operating under a use permit. So if we violate either a regulatory permit or a use permit, you all have the ability to take that away from us. And we are up for annual renewal. So operating this business truly is a privilege. It's not a right. So unlike most businesses that once you get a business license, you're set forever, we come up for annual renewals. And we believe that and working with the staff thus far, that they will hold us accountable for the commitments that we make to you.

So I have one more question. And what will the delivery process look like for your business?

So the deliveries are for in-home delivery, which we're not starting with in-home delivery. It's just we get the permit as part of the package because it's much more challenging to come back and amend the use permit later. So we get the delivery permit at the same time. Our intention is not to open with a delivery business day one. The way that our business works is right now about 30% of our orders are by online pickup and store. So just like you go to Target, anywhere else you know you fulfill your order online you come in you pay for it in advance because we're fully banked so there's not a lot of cash so the folks come in they pick up their order and then they leave so the way that delivery works is very similarly somebody places their order online it gets aggregated in our vehicles so we will aggregate about a dozen orders at any given time that goes out in an unmarked vehicle that vehicle has the person has a camera GPS their cashless transaction so then they would drive to somebody's house validate their identification and hand them their order.

And then how about actual deliveries of the cannabis products to your store?

That's another good question. So a lot of operators, we're really proud. We centralize our distribution through a third-party provider, so a 3PL provider. So we only get about one delivery a week, whereas a lot of businesses get 20 or 30 trucks that show up and products are coming in. We have a provider that aggregates all of our orders, and we get one delivery per week. We stagger those times, you know, just for – operational security and security guards are there we actually up our our security presence during during a delivery but again it's an unmarked vehicle um and it's it's surprisingly not a significant amount of inventory when you think about what you would imagine is coming out it's not you know unpackaged cannabis everything comes pre-packaged and tested we're not allowed to package anything on site so even we think about like odor and those other challenges our business is really uh able to mitigate that because of our operational presence or

And then one addition to that, and we have staff that are specifically focused on the flow of inventory within our business. So obviously we have our retail salespeople, we have managers, and we have inventory-specific staff. So on days when we're intaking orders, processing not in terms of packaging, but processing them into our system and into our inventory room, We have dedicated staff that are managing that process so that it is efficient, rapidly moved into the building, into the secured area, and then processed and intaked as part of the state's track and trace system.

Sorry, last question, I promise. And what is your process? You said that if somebody is in the parking lot and they decide to vape or light up, whatever their choice is, what are your procedures? I know you said security can ask them to leave, but what do you do in the event that, because I do know the area pretty well, that you have someone that is just not complying? Then what steps do you have in place for something like that?

So we have an escalation procedure. And if it gets to a place where we have to involve law enforcement, which we have not had that issue, but there is an escalation process. So what ends up happening is our rules are posted when folks come in. So when you enter the store for the first time and you become entered into our system, you're provided with our rules and regulations. And what's really nice about our business is that we have somebody's ID, we have their face, we have, if they've come in in a car, we have license plate capture. We know everything about that individual for safety purposes. By virtue of the regulations. By virtue of the regulations. And it's all HIPAA compliant, but if somebody does violate our rules, we 86 them from the business. And in some communities, we've actually worked with other operators to create a list of – because there's folks that go around and do bad things at lots of different businesses. So we've actually been able to incorporate that in other cities. Since we're not operating here yet, we don't know how that would work. But moving forward, that's something that we would look to do as well.

Thank you. I will say it is – and I know this is a little bit of a trust journey, right, because I can't – show you that these things won't happen until we're open and they don't happen. And so I would just sort of go back to that beginning though and just say to you across 17 locations, I appreciate every community is different, but that is not a recurring issue. We're fortunate in that the clarity of the rules, the unwillingness to allow patrons to continue to be patrons of our business if there's misbehavior has been an effective deterrent in

the 17 communities we operate in today thank you commissioner Hernandez yeah I just had a question because I do know the area very well um there's a lot of businesses there um have you guys done like the analysis for like the parking lot um that was one of my questions but also the hours of operation what what are the hours of operation that you guys plan on

7 a.m. to 8 p.m. and we have looked at the parking standards and it there's we're very proud of the amount of parking that's there we like we have a number of locations like our Webster Street location Alameda that has zero parking and and we work through that and it works really well for us but to have a parking lot of that magnitude is thrilling yeah

Vice chair, I think you had a question follow up. You wanted to be last couple of questions. Sure.

First is a statement. Your presentation is very well done. I appreciate that. You know, it sounds like, you know, your business pretty well. Your mom is a teacher for 25 years at Stag. She made sure you were well educated. So that's a good thing. It sounds like your business model You have that pretty much put together, but more specific to the questions. I'm very familiar with this area. I did a lot of the engineering design out in this area years ago. And one just in your in attachment a embark in that it talks about security guards plural, but yet in staff report or the application is talking about one security guard. And if I went back to your one of your where you go in door one and then you go through door two and that and I look at your floor plan on in your package that you submitted as part of your application it's pretty bare it shows the restroom it shows trash enclosure but it doesn't show any of those doors it shows one way in one way out is that still the plan one way in one way out absolutely yes okay And so then your interior floor plan, and I, and I have no problem with the bare minimum shown. Okay. I believe that a person should get their entitlement without having to spend an arm and a leg, just meet and we can condition you from this podium side of the side. If we see something we don't like, but so I have no problem with a site plan like that. Um, in fact, sometimes site plans get, get too carried away. before you're even entitled. So I'm good with that, but my questions are kind of related to that. So I'm assuming that you will be submitting to the building department, which I know you will, and to the police department and show the secure facilities and your How that's all going to operate. You have scissor doors you're saying at the front and everything not roll ups but scissor and and a secure room to store your product in the way I read it in the package that we received in that. And so I'm sure that'll be looked at by both our police department probably the regulatory agencies that you have to get licensed from and from our building department side. So I'm okay with all that. But the idea of security guards, as you say on this page seven, it's plural guards, yet the application says a guard. And as you mentioned in your presentation, you're gonna have a desk up front where the security guard's gonna check the IDs and confirm all that information before they get to the next door, whether it's door two, door three, get thrown out of doors, whatever. But anyway, so one security guard inside the building, how is that going to prevent anything from taking place outside? That's one issue I have. The other issue I have is I've never been in one of these stores. I might look like I'm in one, but I haven't been in one of these stores. But I've driven by them during their peak hours, and I see lines out the doors in some of these stores. Okay, and that. And so that can cause problems for the rest of the businesses there and that. It can also cause fights or all kinds of disruptive activities. And how is only one security guard gonna maintain keeping the parking lot free of smoke coming out the windows of the cars?

great question so break that the two questions down so uh... first one guard is a minimum amount of so so we we didn't mention that in one garden more as your business may grow or whatever what needed and certain times the day so we demand plan and because of california labor law et cetera we actually have two guards at at at during certain periods because of the way that overlaps work so A couple of different things. So thinking about the total number of patrons we're going to see in a given day. So at peak, we might see 300 patrons in a day. But an average day, we're probably about 150 patrons. About 30% of those patrons are buy online, pick up in stores. So those folks have already completed their transaction. They're walking and getting their product and leaving. So when we think about a dwell time, they're not dwelling in the business. For the other hundred or so that are there during a given day. They are pretty well spread out We see peaks between about 5 p.m. And and then you know the 8 p.m. Closing so that that is really when you see the rush So we do have an increased presence there during that period of time and the security guards sitting at reception They're also armed with a monitoring camp. They have a screen in front of them where they're able to see you know all of their camp and And we have an offsite monitoring company that's doing both. So those are also guards that are monitoring those systems. So if we are having an issue in the parking lot, what ends up happening is a staff member ends up sitting at reception and the guard deploys into the parking lot. is something that so rarely happens that we haven't really experienced an issue with that. But again, we do ramp up security as needed if we are dealing with increased demand or if we had particular issues that would arise. And our managers are also certified as guards as well. What does that mean? So they get their guard card from the Department of Consumer Affairs. But we have a true independent third-party guard, one guard on staff at all times.

Because I know I've been here since the beginning of this legalized period of time we're going through. And sometimes we've required multiple guards. as part of the permit just for some of the reasons that I mentioned you know. And I've also know that you quoted a previous meeting where our police lieutenant here said really there's no problems and I remember that. And actually it's a ramped up security for your facility. So I probably agree with that too that it does ramp up security for the whole shopping center. And it's probably not as big a problem as our smoke and vape shops that we have around here. So just a few concerns. I've aired my concerns out in every meeting. I've seen some good presentations. Just like you said, out of the 600 that are part of your coalition, there's always a few that are 180 degrees different. And from your presentation, I am happy with what I hear versus what I've heard in the past. But the security guard situation bothers me. I've been around long enough to know what people do with pot and that and getting on the freeway. enlighten up another problem I have with it. I mean it's right there at that off ramp in that. And so anyway I just airing out my concerns. I think your floor plan can be worked out through the building department and the police department regulatory to where it's not a problem and I'm happy that staff accepted it without as much detail as sometimes I see in that that how we ought to be proceeding to where let's get our entitlement and then we'll meet all the rules. We can condition it.

One thing that I just really wish we could show you our whole security plan because it's over 100 pages and it was developed by a law enforcement officer. It's one of these things that we don't even really see our back of house because we don't want to give anybody a roadmap to what's going on. But I'm sure you all could see what we do in working with your PD. And we are very proud of the security plans we put together. But your concern is valid. And again, as we think about these being annual renewals. We're investing so much up front. We're not going to jeopardize that.

Well, you have a lot of cash on site.

Surprisingly, we're fully banked. So there's a misnomer about cannabis. We're fully banked. Out of the country? No, no, no. Domestic? No, no, no. So EastWest is an FDIC-insured institution. It's so small a credit union. We accept electronic payments.

They're letting cannabis bank with them. They're taking that risk with the feds.

Well, the IRS allows it. You just have to follow KYC and AML processes. We have to track the same way the product tracks from seed to sale. The cash has to be tracked from seed to sale. And since we started our business post-legalization, all of our money we can declare from day one until now. So every single dollar. I'm happy to hear that.

Although, I mean, if the IRS accepts it, that's great.

They take a 70% tax from us.

The other agencies in the federal government sometimes don't work with everybody.

You're exactly right. No, it's a challenge.

The tax man still does, though.

He's somebody to be concerned about. Okay. I wrote up a few things.

I can come back to you if you want.

Whenever you're ready. I'll give you my phone number. You can call us anytime with questions.

I'm fine. I'm happy to see a local man involved in it.

Excellent.

It had to be for the lottery to begin with, but, you know, raised here, too. So that's great.

Thank you very much.

Commissioner Ahman.

I have a couple more questions now based off what he said. You talked about peak hours. You said you'd have about maybe 150 people maybe daily possibly. So are these pickup lines, the ones that are coming that are already pre-ordered and the ones that are just coming to just... Buy it a whim. Are these lines all commingled? Do you have a process for those that have already preordered that they're not necessarily mingled with this so that there is not that line wrapped around the corner? Because I've seen that as well. You drive by and my concern about that is that there are other businesses there. And so if you have these horribly long lines, and it may detour people from actually going into the other businesses as well, and I don't want that to happen for them either. So do you have a plan for something like this, if that many people are going to be coming there per day?

absolutely in our stores when you go to reception there's two check-ins there's the uh... by a might be called opus check-in for express and there's just a traditional check outline and and again thirty percent being bogus it it's a very fast turnover and what i will say about you know the folks coming there if you look at the number of people that starbucks for the gas station services in a day we pale in comparison and separate apart from that you know there's a couple of other businesses are like the pizza shop or actually you know they're you know publicly vocal about the support of josh has spent a lot of time with them they're excited to have more bodies coming into that center and spending money there so that is one of the things that uh... yet that the notion that they've been at the notion period to take it home and any after out but that the notion that uh... What it really does is it brings more traffic to that location in a positive way. Because Starbucks is a drive-through, gas stations in and out. This is a place where folks are coming in. It's a convenience purchase, but it is more of kind of a community feel. And given the cross-marketing of the businesses, that is how those folks end up benefiting, is by us creating marketing programs for those small businesses so we can actually help them increase their sales as well.

So you're talking about it goes fast. So you're saying that one line is going to be mixed with people that already bought online and the ones that are going to be buying. There's not two separate lines.

So at reception, there are two lines. There's an express.

But that's not until you get inside. Reception's inside, correct?

The reception is inside, but we don't, all of our locations, you know, there's two times a year that you'll have a line, and it's 420, which is, April 20th is like a big holiday in cannabis, and then they call it Green Wednesday, which is now a new holiday. It's the day before Thanksgiving, which I don't know how I feel about that one, but anyway. Those are really that's it's very weird to be saying this in front of you all as our jobs by the way I'd talked to my mom about this for a long time. It's a whole nother story, but but she's come around and is very supportive but The, yeah, those are the two days, those are the two days that we have queuing. And we have an entire process on those days where we have additional staff, additional guards. We work with neighboring businesses to actually provide promotions for those businesses. So us coexisting is critical because if our neighbors are upset and they complain to you all, our regulatory permit and our use permit are in jeopardy and seven figures of our investment are at risk. So we have a very vested interest to ensure that doesn't happen.

So through one door is where I struggle.

So we have that same feature in many of our other. And again, I say this not to challenge your concerns, but just to provide context in the other communities where we operate. So we have one door to enter and exit in many of the communities we serve today.

You guys operate it. So I mean, we've got to have some trust that you're telling us how it operates other where with one door. But I mean, just from a practical standpoint, one door in uh you know people trying to get through for your bubbly applica however whatever you call it okay and and then you have your storefront purchases in that that want to see the showroom and that that's a line trying You know, I mean, once you get inside, you divide it up, but everybody's outside. So it's questionable from a practical standpoint, just from just logical in that. But if you're operating that way and you're not having that problem at other places, you know, I mean, you're right. In a year, if it's not operating right, you won't have a permit.

And I would say in Tahoe, the store you saw, the one that's on State Line, the smoke shop that's now a cannabis store, one door, that store generated over $10 or $12 million in its first couple years of operations. One door in, one door out. And from a security perspective, we actually prefer that because there's only one access point. So when we think about security, that really works well for us. It definitely creates – we've had to develop operational processes to deal with this. So I'm not – your point is well taken. There's pluses and minuses. Yes, and we have to balance those, and it's obviously site-specific.

Excellent. Well, I will, since the vice chair jumped in there, head of Commissioner Hernandez, I know you can't. You're not in control of my friend anymore, but anyhow. Watch it. I'll grab your gavel. So anyhow, Commissioner Hernandez, you had a question?

Yeah, I have notes everywhere. So going back to piggyback to what he had said about the security, I think I've seen someone on the presentation, it was 24-7 security. Do you guys have 24-7 security?

We have analytical talk-down cameras. So what those do is it effectively can tell the difference between a plastic bag or a cat going by or a human. So that is monitored by a licensed security company. So after hours, our guards are there an hour before opening and an hour after close. But after we're fully closed down, we feel that technology is a better solution for security. monitoring a storefront that's vacant. So we use analytical talk down cameras. So if somebody walks up, it sends out at first an automated message and then they have a live operator that if there's a threat will immediately dispatch law enforcement. Okay, so this this is just not like at the storefront It just it's around the whole like businesses are so we have I think it's several dozen cameras So we we have to have not only cameras to see every single point of sale and the person's face in the and the and the guides face So the patron and the guide but we have to be able to see 360 degrees around our business So that means we will have a rooftop parapet cameras cameras in the front So we're able to see every every angle of the business. So if somebody is to approach after after after hours and There's motion zones, and if they trip one of those, that sets off the talk-down feature.

Okay, no, that was just my question. I did see one secured and then 24-7. Okay, no, thank you. Absolutely.

Thank you. Commissioner, I'm in.

Sorry, one more question. So how many, I've been in these before. So how many people are, I know that like the sizes of buildings differ, but some are warehouse-like and some are smaller. This looks maybe, I don't know, a little smaller side maybe. So how many people will you be allowing in at one time?

Have you determined that? Yeah, so the ratio, and it's a bit dynamic based on the general manager and the security guard's comfort level, and it depends on the time of day. You know, morning people are just trying to get in and out. If it's on 420, it's going to be a completely different ratio. But in our security plan, we talk about the ratio of guides to patrons, and that is adjusted, you know, in a fluid manner. But that is something that, you know, internally as a company, we evaluate, you know, on a near, like, monthly, if not weekly basis as we do security audits of all of our stores.

And so your staff then will vary based off of that as well?

Correct. Yeah. And it's based on the demand. So again, going back to the pro forma and the projections, a $3 million store versus a $10 million store is going to have a materially different staffing plan. So we staff on the high end when we open just to ensure that we're not going to get smashed with demand. and then we will taper down from there. But we also try to be mindful again of employing folks and not letting them go. So we try to, we have to mind, you're having to balance a lot of different pieces to ensure that we do right by all the stakeholders involved.

Thank you, Vice Chair. You can speak now, my friend. You've been recognized.

So in addition to how you guys figure you're allowed to, people in the store. I mean, we have our own code, the building code, as an occupancy, maximum occupancy. Correct. And that has to be adhered to. And that would be posted somewhere in that building, probably right above the exit door. Absolutely. Somewhere that's visual. And so that lends itself towards a line sometimes in that given that if this is a small space in that that you're talking about I don't recall how many square feet it is. but it's not that much, and so your occupancy load in that building, depending on your classification of use under the building code, is gonna dictate how many can be in that store at one time, which may increase your line.

You're spot on, and we opened our first store in June of 2020, and our second store in January of 21 in Alameda County. We had a maximum occupancy on our Webster Street store of six people, including our staff. So it was interesting. Because we almost started on the inverse of what we deal with today. So we had to start with one of the most challenging occupancy loads and have worked through that operationally again. And that's why we incentivize folks. We actually, through our loyalty program, will incentivize repeat patrons to come during off hours. So we can actually target those individuals to come during off hours or incentivize them to order online to manage demand. So demand planning is the name of our game from a labor perspective, for customer management. A lot of balancing. I mean, we're on a tightrope every single day, so.

Well, you'll have a balance on this. Absolutely, yes. If it's anything that looks like the rest of the community lines that I see.

All right, well, I think that might be it. Thank you, very thorough. Thank you very much. Thank you, appreciate it. And we'll move on. I know we had communications. I can't remember if that letter referenced this item in particular. I don't think it did. It wasn't a subject. In particular, it was kind of the general alcohol, tobacco. Okay, well, then we will. Do we have any other communications besides that?

We do have public comment cards. Erica Hain?

Welcome, remember to press the button there so we can hear you. Thank you. Am I doing this right? Yeah, got it.

Yeah, well, thank you for having me. My name is Erica Hain. I work for the North Valley Labor Federation, and I'm here today with our affiliate, UFCW8. They are the union that would be representing the workers at Embark. And a lot of what you guys talked about today, because, of course, you guys are the planning commission, is the logistics and the feasibility and how this will work and the safety. But I'm really here to talk about what it means for the community, right, for labor. The labor that these people provide is going to be unionized, and that means so much. That means a contract. That means protections. That means fair wages. And they're going to be the only one in Stockton, the only dispensary in Stockton doing this. And I think that is so important when we think about how the cost of living looks and what it looks like to go work a job. You said that you saw lines out the door at other dispensaries. Well, they don't even have a union to fight for their right for better working conditions, but these people do. And I just really want to advocate for UFCWA because they are such a great affiliate of ours and also the work that they do for their members. And the fact that they're willing to do this without us having to go in there and do a unionization campaign really means a lot. And that's the extent of what I have to say.

Thank you. Yeah, you're good to go. Thank you. Appreciate it.

Salvador Valencia.

welcome your mic is already on so you're good to go thank you and uh good evening it's good to see you all here i'm also an organizer with north valley labor federation uh think of us as an umbrella of different unions coming together for the betterment of workers regardless of industries we have nurses teachers custodians construction workers anything that you can think of workers here deserve a union contract I'm here to advocate for Embark's efforts. Not that long ago, Devin, Embark team came to us and said, hey, we want to talk to labor. We want to get labor involved with this, and we want to hear from community members. Can you help us do that? They didn't have to do that, but they came to us so that they can hear community needs, community opinions, so that we can make sure that this is actually beneficial for the community. I live there, that's my district. I went to Garfield before it became Merlot Institute. I went to Van Buren. I went back to Garfield, which became Merlot Institute, so I graduated from there. And so, yeah, no, we believe as labor that everyone should be treated with dignity, respect, and a level of wage, especially here in Stockton, right, because there's a lot of industrial jobs that don't necessarily provide that for people, for working people. And so that's why I'm here, and I appreciate you for your time.

Thank you. Any other communications? I think we have one more card coming. We'll go ahead and... Two more. Two more cards coming.

Young lady over there on the far left.

Might as well stay up there. We'll call you first. How about that? Well, you're already there. We'll let you go take the mic. How about that? Save some time. My name is Sean. Let's have her. You want to have his name? Yeah, please.

Sorry, can you state your name for the record? And this was for this item, right? Yes. Okay, thank you. Just want to clarify.

Excellent, thank you. Go ahead. My name is Sean Raycraft. I'm a union representative with UFCW Local 8. I have the pleasure to represent Embark in Tracy. So I can tell you that when Embark says that they're a good community partner and they're good to the workers, I can say that with definitively if there's an issue or a problem, there's a legally enforceable CBA that I can enforce on my worker's behalf to make sure that all state and local guidelines are enforced, and that includes safety, that includes things like maximum occupancy. I can enforce that through our CBA, which is a nice tool to make sure that the workers that work there are not exploited. As some of you know, cannabis workers, historically speaking, have been some of the most exploited workers because they always worked in a legal gray area. They didn't have the law to protect them. A union contract can do that. So I can speak from experience that Embark and their leadership have been good partners for us and their workers. Thank you.

Thank you. Appreciate it.

Megan Romstad.

Hi, everybody.

Hello, welcome.

I'm a little more formal and I have something written out.

Oh, okay.

Hi, I'm Megan Ronstadt. I'm a union rep for UFCW Local 8. We represent a large group of hardworking and diverse women and men across the state of California. Our mission is clear, and that is to ensure our members receive fair wages, strong employee benefits, such as health care and earned paying time off and sick leave. We're here tonight to express our full support for Embark and their COP application for their storefront here in Stockton. We advocate for workers in diverse industries and it's important that workers are treated fairly. Embark has the same standard and is a true partner of ours and of their employees. Embark has committed to hire local residents and offer them a living wage, employee benefits, and the opportunity to advance. We feel like this opportunity is good for Stockton and all that are involved. Embark also ensures that their employees are afforded the benefit of a union representation, and all of their locations are under a collective bargaining agreement, so that's just exactly what Sean was referring to. This is indicative to their commitment to their employees and then to the local residents. Embark has an amazing leadership team and extensive experience in the cannabis industry. They have a proven track record on the regulation side of the business, and they navigate their operations with integrity and the utmost professionalism. We stand by Embark and hope that you do as well by issuing them a conditional use permit in Stockton. Thank you.

Thank you.

That concludes public comment for this item.

All right, OK. Well, we'll bang the gavel here, and we'll bring it back to the commissioners. A lot of really good questions. You guys got most of my questions asked, or answered, I should say. Let's appreciate it. So Commissioner Amen, you will start us off. Let's see. I have some questions for the police.

Oh, sorry. For the police, I had some questions.

Okay, well then we'll open it back up again. No problem. We can do that. I'm allowed that privilege.

Good evening. I'm Wes Greiner. I'm a lieutenant with the Special Investigations Section for Stockton PD. Good evening.

First, I want to say thank you for coming tonight. I had a couple of questions for you. I don't know where I put them. So many papers up here, sorry. Just based obviously in Stockton, I wanted to ask you how many calls do you receive from any of the existing cannabis businesses that we have now?

Historically, they're very low. I would argue that our tobacco smoke shops are astronomical. However, through to the security, some of the security details that they have with these establishments, they're quite low. So they're actually very minimal for the ones we currently have.

And if you do have calls, what types of calls are they?

So in the last year, we have had, you know, just basically, you know, there's injuries. So we have vehicle accidents. There's bad reports. 911 hangups are quite frequent, especially on the busier intersections. Anything from a miscellaneous to a robbery alarm to trespassing calls, vagrant calls, nothing that is out of the ordinary or for any other location in town.

And then my second question is, what's not a statement, it's a question eventually. I know that we know it's legal to buy it and all that, but I guess I'm having, I wanted to know, once you buy whichever you're purchasing, you get in your car, you decide to light it up in your car, then at that point when they leave, is that the same as being under the influence? Is that legal?

So it's an open container. It is considered so open marijuana or loose marijuana is just like having an open container of alcohol. It is the same. It's treated exactly the same when they come from the establishments. They're always in a sealed envelope. They're in a box. I mean, you know, cans, you, you, you name it, jars. There's all kinds of various ways to dispense them to the customers. They're actually closed, and that's actually by the law. And then once people open them up, that is when it becomes actually against the law to have an open container of marijuana inside your building.

And regardless if it's a public or private parking lot, does that matter? Just once they open it, it's just like opening a can of beer, okay? Mm-hmm. So those are basically my two questions. I just, I don't know too much about the law behind this, but of course, you know, that's one of the thoughts that people are sitting in a parking lot getting high, then at what point does it become illegal when they drive away? Or?

It's when they open the alley. It's when they open the marijuana, when it comes in the package, when it's open, when they're driving. That in turn is when there's a violation.

Okay, all right. Thank you so much. I really appreciate you answering that. Anytime.

Thank you. Well, we have any other questions while we have the officer? Okay. Thank you. Appreciate it. Okay. We'll bring it. Yes. You have a question? Oh, okay. Sorry. Okay. Now we're bringing it back. We're bringing it back. Okay. So we'll start that again. Do we have any commissioner comments, motions? I'll take any of the above or all. Yes. Commissioner, I'm in. Okay. Okay.

Sorry. Obviously, everybody knows just from the past hearings, I know everyone's coming here expecting me to feel or be a certain way about this. And the one thing I want to say is this, that I want to tell you the positive things that I liked is the fact that I know it's a lottery, and when your name comes up, you basically have to have a location. I don't know how much time you're given. I haven't really looked into it that deeply. But the fact that you're born and raised here is a positive. And I really did like your presentation. I think a lot of thought went into... not just the actual building or just opening it just to open it and make your money and move on. The fact that you are trying to give back to the community is a plus for me. My only issue is that I just wish this model was in a different location. I still have an issue with when someone's going to be bringing their child or I'm going to be bringing my grandchild there. And I know you said deliveries might be once a week. I've I don't know if that's true. I don't know if staff can put that where it is once a week. You can only have deliveries. But that's kind of my main issue is that just the proximity to families coming in and out of those establishments. Yes, I've been to every single cannabis place to drive around and park there so I can kind of see what goes on so I can get educated on this. And I've seen a lot of stuff today. Matter of fact, I saw a lot of stuff today. And like I said, I'm sure it starts one way, And I think that's my fear. Is it going to stay that way? And the establishment I looked at today was once a wonderful establishment for a couple of years. And what I saw today was just really, really bad. People in their cars getting high. People on the side of the building getting high. And that's really my concern. And there were other businesses there. And I saw a family going into an ice cream shop and coming out. And this is what they came out to. And that's really where I'm having a hard time with this, is the family aspect of this. The pizza, the Starbucks. And I'm not saying that that is what this is going to turn into. It's just a fear that I have, and I always want to make sure that I'm looking out for, just for the citizens of Stockton and making sure that they're going to always be in a safe environment. So I am struggling with this one. I know that I'm not looking at anybody from past what they came and presented. That was in the past. It's not that I don't. I know I've been accused of not wanting cannabis in District 6, whatever. That's not it. It's just for me, it's just the safety of families and what that means and what that represents for me. So I'm really, although I love this, I'm having such a hard time up here. I really am.

Thank you, appreciate it. Vice Chair Sanguignetti?

First of all, I want to say I respect everything you said, Yolanda, and that the family comes first, okay, no matter what. And I too know, I mean, I see it in, I don't go around the cannabis places, but I've been there and seen the lines, and I do see, Mainly like in Safeway or food for less or any of those parking lots I mean there's people blowing smoke out the window all the time and actually I love the smell of it Okay, I mean I don't smoke it. I don't do it, but I like the smell Okay, it doesn't bother me and that especially the good stuff. I Anyway, I mean you guys could all test me and I don't have an ounce of THC in my body anyway so There is some struggle I've had since 2020 when all this became, I got on the commission the first time in 2019 and that's when we were putting the lottery in place, the first lottery action that was taken and so forth. And so I've seen quite a few of these cannabis stores or dispensaries or cultivation shops come before this commission. And I've struggled with every one of them in that. I've come to understand that we're allowed to do it. We look at what we're allowed to do. And I understand the use permit process well enough to know that annually, you can be shut down if you're not in compliance. If there's too many calls for service, PD could ask for a review and this commission body could shut the facility down. And that, or recondition it or do lots of different things. Staff could do lots of things before it even got back to this body and that. So there's a safeguard in that aspect for this use permit. You're when you look at the map and that, I mean, 4.8 miles away from the closest one, that's not even open yet. There's actually. According to our own list here, we have eight approved storefronts, and there's only seven of them actually in operation according to one of the exhibits in here, even though the staff report says six in operation. In any case, the safeguard is that we as a city and we as commissioners and that if we don't like something and we see something like what you saw today, we could file a formal complaint ourself with the city and at that point, the city has to act upon it. From there, it becomes an issue for the operator. that so in my eyes I'm gonna support this tonight I think your presentation was one of the best I've heard your business plan is great and the idea that you're gonna put 1% of your is that your gross or your net okay into a separate fund beyond the tax revenue and that is a plus for this community and that I'm wishing you the best but that it will be successful but I'm willing to make a motion right now in that to follow staffs recommendation and that for the two items, the CEQA and for the use permit. So that's my motion.

Okay, do I have a second? I second. Okay, everyone vote please.

You have one question.

Oh, question you want? Yeah, okay. Turn on your, yeah.

Would we be able to add something to this or no?

The condition? Yes. On the project?

Like, for example, if deliveries can be once a week, if possible, and...

There are things that you can suggest.

Okay, let me get my words out, because I'm at this, hold on. And... Deliveries and... and possibly i'm i know we talked about security i'm really really worried about i don't know that's fair to have you have to have two securities on site because once again you're paying all this extra money if there's hardly anybody there and it's a slow day i know that we've done that before where we've um asked for you know two security guards at different things that we've had but um that's really my concern is security BUT I THINK I WOULD LIKE TO ADD THAT IF IT'S POSSIBLE THAT DELIVERIES WOULD JUST BE ONCE A WEEK AS OPPOSED TO SEVERAL DAYS A WEEK. I THINK THAT WOULD MINIMIZE THAT FOR THE FAMILIES THAT ARE GOING TO BE GOING IN AND OUT OF THAT ESTABLISHMENT AND THE OTHER BUSINESSES THAT ARE THERE.

I WOULD JUST ASK THE VICE CHAIR IF YOU'RE OKAY FOR THAT REVISION TO YOUR MOTION.

So if I understand your proposal right, you'd like to have two security guards as minimum. And that's during business operations. And you'd like to have what else?

Just the possible, if it is possible, one delivery a week.

And I would like to clarify, you mean incoming product to the store to be sold deliveries, not the delivery aspect of the product? No, no, no. I just want to make sure that's clear for the record.

The product, not the online sales, but just the product that they're bringing in.

Okay, and one other thing, I know we've closed the public hearing. I do think it probably would be fair for you at least to understand their delivery side as far as how that works. I'm assuming, and I thought I heard in the presentation, they have to kind of gauge the activity, you know, as far as delivery. So that's why I think it would be fair, and it is something you can condition on the project, but I think it would be fair to at least listen to the applicant to understand their delivery process to see if that's something that they could accept.

Okay, well that's council. Do I suspend my vote? How do I, how do I? We voted. There hasn't been any vote. We haven't voted yet, I'm sorry. We haven't voted, I just suspended our motion.

Yeah, we need to reopen the public hearing. Yeah, I'll do that back from we can hold off on. Yes, we'll do that. Yeah, the voting on the motion pending.

Why don't we open it back up again? Because we're we do probably want to hear from the applicant is very specific to. Yeah.

In particular, maybe obviously we discuss your delivery process. Is that what we're that would Mike you're suggesting? yeah just to understand if if that once a week is something that that could work for their process because this is not typical where you restrict other businesses you know you're only delivering once a week so i think it would be fair at least to ask the applicant if that's something that they could or maybe there could be something even to modify that. Maybe it's once per week. However, on peak, I don't know their business all that well, but that's something I'm just gonna plant a seed for. If there's something they wish to maybe counter with that you could accept, maybe that's it. Let's speak to also.

If we could back up for a minute, maybe we're, jumping the gun a little bit because first of all there's a motion on the floor there's a second on the floor and then there was A comment from a commissioner to ask if she could make a friendly amendment is what she's wanting. So maybe this commission really should be discussing whether we're going to look at having a friendly amendment before we go opening up a public hearing again and getting dialogue from the outside. Because there may be some things that we can clear up without even going that way.

Yeah, and I'll say that's a good aid. Let's bring it back.

So Commissioner Sanguinetti, if you as the individual who made the motion get to accept the friendly amendment or not. I understand the procedure. So yes, it's back to you then.

Yeah. So my... My idea on the friendly amendment is I struggle a little bit with that in the aspect that we did hear about the delivery and we do know that they said that they're going to have one delivery a week in their program. That'll be in their plan with the regulatory authorities. I'm not sure it's even necessary because they're going to have to spell that out and it's on record that there's one delivery a week. I'm not sure we need to make a specific condition amendment to that. When they submit their plan, not just to the building department, but to the regulatory authorities such as PD and the state in that that's gonna be spelled out in that plan and based upon our records here, they've committed to one delivery a week. So I'm not sure we need to add more conditions, specific conditions for that item. Number two is the idea of two security guards. I understand your feeling about that, and I'm not saying I'm against that. However, with the review of this on an annual basis, I think it's more important that we let somebody have a shot at doing their business based on their presentment, how they presented it to us. And then at the annual review, it could be requested to be put in based upon if there's problems that dictate it. So I'm not sure I really want to accept a friendly amendment at this time. I'd just as soon do our vote.

OK.

Chair, could I weigh in just real quick just on what was mentioned there and just to clarify the annual review that Chair Sanguinetti, Vice Chair Sanguinetti may be referring to. So there's a two-step process. And I think it was covered in the presentation. But there's a use permit. that you're considering here. And there's also an operator's permit that would be applied for. That's the next step in the process. Once they are able to get a use permit, then they would go and apply for an operator's permit. And that is with our police department. And that operational permit is what they primarily work off of for the most part. PD is going to be far more a reviewing body on how they're operating versus the use permit. The use permit, as most of you are aware, the public could submit for a request to revoke. There is a revocation process. That's a far different process than the operator's permit and I really do think I think that's what chair saying when he's more referring to is the operators permit side of that that the police department reviews a security plan for the entire process before they can get approved and there's other steps that they're doing to. put on the business to operate in a certain manner where PD can certainly monitor it. Can I interject real quick?

Sure. So I would say we have a motion on the table. Yeah. Did not accept the changes. I would say that I agree with him. I would like to go ahead and cast our votes That's fine, yeah.

I just want to be clear on the annual review. Absolutely. Because it's not for the use permit. There's no condition on the use permit to do an annual review. That's all I want to make sure. Sure.

Oh, we could make that.

You could do that, too. Yeah.

Okay, well. But the operational permit is reviewed based upon the PD's findings on a regular basis.

Yeah. That's all I wanted to be clear of. It's not the use permit. Thanks, Chair. Excellent.

Well, you got a name for it. Okay. Well, then I. It's a name for everything these days.

Yeah. Okay, well we have a motion, we have a second. I will go ahead and call for a vote at this time, please. So everyone please vote. You want to make the motion? You want me to call it?

Motion passes. It would be 5-2, or sorry, 5-0.

Excellent. Any party that wishes to appeal this decision may do so within 10 days of the Commission's decision pursuant to Stockton Municipal Code Section 16.100.020. Thank you. Appreciate your time. Make us proud. If you want to put 1.5% in, we're good with that, too.

Thank you so much.

Okay, we will take a moment.

Take a moment real quickly to clear the room.

Hey.

You were going to say that, weren't you?

Can you guys do me a big, solid, because I do have another agenda item. Thank you. I appreciate your enthusiasm, but I've got to finish my meeting.

Thank you. That's right. They could call PD real easy.

Okay. There we go. Okay. We'll jump right back on to... Now when I'm on the item, now I'm completely lost. Do you want me to make a, do we need a quick break? Do you want a quick break? Okay, otherwise we'll move on and I'm totally lost in my agenda now. So I flipped through pages, there it is. I'll move on to item 5.3. And Scott's up there. Go ahead and read it first. City of, City issued an order amending Title 16 of the Stockton Municipal Code, Division 3, Chapter 16.80, Section 16.80.30, and Division 8, Chapter 16.244, Section 16.224.01 to support the amendment of the 2023 to 2031 stockton housing element in compliance with state law that was a mouthful right scott it is uh so you're you have the floor my friend all right oh wrong way oh that's right because we have to get past this okay hold on sorry about that there you go i got it lost my spot we'll get there

Almost there. There we go. All right. I'm not going to read that again. I'm just going to say that I will be presenting agenda item 5.3 tonight, which is an ordinance to amend the development code to comply with state law as part of our implementation efforts with our general plan housing element.

Hold on one second. I think I was supposed to open the gavel there, open the hearing, public hearing, so. I didn't ask for any commissioners, not that we need anyone on this one, but it does ask for commissioners' disclosures. I can't imagine we'd have any. So thank you. Go ahead. The floor is yours.

All right. For some background on this item, the City Council adopted a housing element in July of 2024, with it being certified by the state that following September. The housing element is full of policies, goals, and implementation programs. The current element is part of the state's sixth cycle, which is an eight-year period ending in 2031. The main objective of the housing element is to ensure that the city has sufficient capacity to meet our RHNA numbers, the Regional Housing Needs Allocation, which is numbers determined by the state, as we all learned at Planning Commissioners Academy. The housing element has 33 programs that need to be met. Program 6 involves ADUs, Accessory Dwelling Units, which I will refer to as ADUs this whole time. We have an objective to approve 180 ADUs by 2031. Also, we have an obligation to keep our ADU regulations compliant with state law, which, if you are aware of the quantity of new laws passed every year, is easier said than done. The changes being proposed here are current state law and apply regardless, but nevertheless must be incorporated into our code. To better understand regulations and changes, we'll hit a few highlights. First off, the difference between an ADU and a JADU. An ADU is a separate living facility on a property that is independent from the main dwelling. Typically, ADUs are detached as a separate structure, but they can be attached to the primary dwelling as well. They have a square footage limit of 1,200 square feet. J.A.D.U.s or junior accessory dwelling units are smaller they're capped at 500 square feet and they have to be built within the existing footprint of the temporary of the primary dwelling or if it's new construction they have to be incorporated in the initial footprint. J.A.D.U.s are allowed to share a bathroom with the main residents but if that is the case owner occupancy is required. So a quick rundown of some of the changes being made with this update include eliminating setbacks for conversion or replacement of existing structures, clarification on the ability to rent and sell units, changes to the height allowance. Depending on conditions, you can go 16, 18, or 25 feet. Removal of the owner occupancy requirement for JEDUs if the unit has separate sanitation facilities. Clarification on floor area requirements, allowance for tandem parking, allowance for non-conforming conditions on the site, and other operational standards including fire sprinklers, impact fees, building code applicability, and others. So, a number of things. None of it's too major, but it does all comply with state law as required. In addition to changes on the regulations and standards, the definitions have also been changed and accessory dwelling unit definitions up here. The definition for ADU has been altered to comply with the state's definition clarifying that ADUs can be built concurrently with a primary dwelling and that efficiency units and manufactured homes count as ADUs. The JADU definition had a minor edit to clarify that it must be an existing space and to update a reference to a state code section. To keep us up to date with the state laws, staff recommends the Planning Commission adopt a resolution recommending that the City Council find that no further environmental review is required pursuant to CEQA guidelines section 15183, and adopt an ordinance amending Title 16 of the Stockton Municipal Code in the locations referenced. And with that, I end my presentation. Happy to answer any questions, but I'll send it back to you.

Thank you, I think we have to share its first and then we'll go to commissioner on then and then maybe the vice. Chair as well after that so you can show it to you before he.

Thank thank you, yes, I I just had a question about on the other one you said had about the setbacks. There we go.

Yes.

So the setbacks, is that set by the related to ADUs and JADUs? I guess a JADU wouldn't really matter because it's within the, but to the ADU, is that state law as regards to this?

Yes. So those setback changes are state law. So if you are, there are no setback requirements if it's in an existing structure or if it's in the location of a previous, or of an existing structure. So you can demolish an existing structure that is basically on a property line or very close and rebuild an ADU in its spot. So that's a provision of state law that allows for that for ADUs. Because a lot of people have these legal non-conforming garages and things like that, and you can build an ADU in that spot.

Yeah, if they're in a current non-conforming to conform. Because I read this packet, and I understand that this is primarily... This isn't anything terribly clever or original. It's simply administrative to bring this in line, to bring our code in line with state law. Correct. Okay. And I know there's been a lot of ADU movement. Okay. Thank you. Just for clarification. Thank you. Commissioner, I'm in.

I just had a question about these ADUs. According to the picture you had, do the property owners have to live there and rent the back or they can rent both?

They can rent both. The only occupancy requirement that exists is if it's a JADU that shares a bathroom.

Okay.

Then the owner has to live on the property.

Okay.

But otherwise there is no owner occupancy requirement. They can rent out both all units on site.

Okay.

Thank you For sure You can see my green light I can good job Scott so I guess you guys kind of already know where I struggle a little bit with this I understand the whole program behind it that we've got to do this because the state's saying to do it but that doesn't prevent us from doing more than what the state says the state is minimum law we can always go more just like building code is minimum you can do more and that and my problem is is the time frame on the permitting and i have recognized what's online that i was kindly provided and that and and i know that staff has done a great job getting those numbers and actually coming through with those numbers over the years over the past couple years okay There's been times when they haven't that's where I worry. Okay These numbers are more than acceptable to people that I know that build For you know 20-day turnaround on the first plan check and if the plans are good Then you probably could get a permit in 20 days in that but 60 days is the state law and that's a long time and this city suffers from Affordable housing crisis from Actually even building houses at all right now. Okay, and that and so the where we make up the difference is is in time and money as we all heard in that time is very critical and And so the shorter time period that somebody could wait, for example, if somebody came in with master plans for ADU, like the ones you sell, you have your own master plans, three master plans in that that are already approved. Somebody would just have to have a site plan and plop that on there and show that it meets these other requirements. And I'm good with those other requirements in that. But, and if somebody came in and wanted to have three of their own master plans and get those approved, we don't talk about that anywhere in any of our code and that we don't talk about how we can. get things expedited anywhere. And that we're all dependent upon what's red and black and white 60 days, but it's not even really 60 days. Okay. It's 75 days because the first 15 days are to determine the applications completeness. And so if you fail in that first seven 15 days, you're, you could be subject to builder's remedy law right there, I believe. And that because you didn't meet to meet the requirement and then therefore then it becomes automatically approved. And that just like I mean in simple terms there's more to it a builder's remedy than that but that's the principle behind it. in that and so I'm you know I struggle very to get this city on the map again so to speak and to make affordable housing to our people that are working two jobs and making minimum wage. They can't afford the $460,000 homes that are selling around here and $500,000 homes around here that are on the market today. They need something in the $350,000 range in order to even qualify. And ADUs, a 1,200 square foot ADU, which is the maximum size, is still a pretty good size house. A lot of us grew up in houses that weren't much bigger or at that size and shared rooms with our brothers and sisters and stuff. We've kind of overbuilt ourself in today's world with our mansions that now create Storm runoff per lot at 50 to 70% versus 35% runoff in that. So there's all kinds of issues that go along with these big homes. We need to kickstart this city, get something on the map. We've only, what, done, you've explained why and it makes sense in that we've only got 65 ADU permits that were issued in 25 or 63 in 2025. And I understand why, having to do with permit fees and that. because if it exceeds the 750 square feet, then you're paying the county's tax. Well, now there's new state law that, as we all know, that's going to exempt those fees in that, and the county's not going to be able to collect their traffic mitigation fee and their other fees that they extort from everybody. Okay? And so I, you know, I want to maybe... She's taking good notes, I can see in that. But I mean, how do we get this to where we can guarantee somebody that they're, reasonably guarantee, I don't wanna use maybe the wrong term, guarantee, but reasonably be able to maintain this type of timeframe on a permit? Because this means everything. If we can get these houses down to $350,000 a house, in that, then we're going to kick start our area around here and be able to put people in housing where they can afford to own their own house, that American dream to own your own house. We don't have that anymore.

Um, vice chair, all very good points. And, uh, I think staff agrees with you that the goal is to have affordability and a variety of housing types available to the public regarding pricing. And we've had these discussions offline before. Um, the city is already doing, I think above and beyond state requirements. We did get pro housing designation. Was that two years ago? where the state is acknowledging that we have gone above and beyond minimum housing law requirements, such as we waive our impact fees for ADUs. We, oh gosh, there's a whole list, but there's a number of things that we had to do to show that we, in addition to the required streamlining and accessibility, that we do more than that, and we checked all those boxes, and we have maintained that certification and are currently still pro-housing designated as of today. In terms of the commitment to the turnaround times, those are posted commitments that we have. In the last few years, there is a very, very high priority in the city manager's office that we process permits as fast as humanly possible. We are constantly looking at our processes. We are constantly looking at our turnaround times. We are looking at tools, methods, structures, staff augmentation, anything we can do to process permits as fast as possible. understand the concern of ensuring that that continues to be a priority and I can at least tell you that as long as I've been here I've been with the city gonna be eight years that has always been a priority and in our industry in general it is a priority I can't speak for the past and I can't speak for the future because I don't have a crystal ball but I can at least confirm and commit to the Planning Commission into the public that as long as this team is here that's a commitment that will always remain that we will process as fast as possible

Why can't we put it in black and white?

You certainly could. You certainly could. You can always request something more stringent than the state minimums, of course. I will say that developing a separate time frame without any kind of data or analysis can be a slippery slope.

You have data analysis right here.

Well, we have these, yes. And that is based on what we've developed. Facts.

Right, those are facts though.

Yes.

Okay, I mean they're based on statistic facts that you've put together to demonstrate what you've been doing.

Yes.

So that's evidence enough, that's a nexus enough to put something in the code.

I understand your position. I guess I just want to say, and this isn't necessarily direction or request, not everything has to be codified in order for it to be done. I understand the desire to have it codified. I do. But having some flexibility in those dates and those time frames does benefit when things are out, not a usual permit, not a typical project. There are things that are unique.

That's why there could be subsections in here that talk about somebody that has a master plan. There's nothing in here that talks about it. certainly or your three plans that spells about that you know turnaround time to obtain this permit would be 20 days if everything is correct for the first plan check and that and 20-day turnaround with the three plans you already have That's an incentive to use what we already have. Other people may want to come in with their own development plans for ADUs, okay? And they would be able to use that same code section. If that plan's already approved, then it'd be the same principle.

100% understood. So what I would request for the sake of tonight's item, this is something that HCD has made very clear needs to be adopted.

I know.

And we don't want to delay that. We are working on the overhaul. We are working on the overhaul. You are a member of the ad hoc committee. I would suggest that if that is something you wish to include in that potential ordinance amendment, that that be worked on through that process so that we can at least get this done for HCD.

RESPECTFULLY. I RESPECT THAT, STEPHANIE. I JUST WANTED TO PUBLICLY GET MY POSITION OUT. SURE, OF COURSE. ON THE RECORD. ALL GOOD POINTS. I WOULD LIKE TO DISCUSS IT IN AD HOC ABOUT POTENTIALLY ADDING IT TO OUR CODE. BECAUSE I THINK IT MEANS A LOT get affordable housing and I think this is a mechanism that we could take our put ourself on the map and bring bring some housing back to people that can so they can afford it because we don't really have that anymore you've heard me say that there is no affordable housing I've said that on numerous of projects I mean four hundred fifty five hundred thousand dollars a house isn't affordable

I would like to step in at this moment, if I could, for a second. I feel we're getting into the weeds. I wanted to use that in the last deal, but I thought it probably wasn't the best idea. But I agree with, I think we're here, I don't disagree with what you're saying, Because I've actually been in development and done things in the past, and I get it. In the past, there were big issues with the building department and getting things done. But that's not really our marching orders. Our marching orders is to satisfy the state. And I get your willingness to want to battle the state, but that's not our marching orders as I see it. I think we can deal with that. We may agree to disagree, but I'd like to. Otherwise, we're going to be here all night. So I get where you're coming from. I just don't think that's what our

I just agreed that I'd put it in ad hoc and not push it here. And now you're...

I'm sorry, I'm moving on. Okay, so we'll move it to that. Do we have any other unrelated questions?

Move to adopt. Oh yes, Mr. Oates. No, I was gonna make a motion.

Well, we actually have to, I'm not quite ready for the motion yet. We're not quite ready. So, do you have anything else? Vice Chair, sorry, I'm not trying to cut you off. I'm just trying to get us kind of on track.

We were on track. Okay. Can I say one thing? I do, one of the reasons why we're in this little predicament is because it's very odd. State laws forcing us to put something in the development code that usually isn't in the development code. We don't address anywhere else turnaround times for building permits in the development code. And so it's one of those strange things that state laws kind of forcing into a code where it normally doesn't exist. That's why this is coming up. You're laying your groundwork for the ad hoc. And so in ad hoc, we'll discuss it, but I just wanted to highlight the peculiar nature of that being in this code.

Yeah. Okay. Okay, thank you, Scott. I think that is it, unless we have any other questions? Okay, then do we have any public comment? Obviously there's no public.

We have none.

Okay, and I don't recall if the communications had any comment about, I don't think so, okay. So I will close that and bring it back to us. So for any further discussion we might have about this issue or I obviously would entertain a motion to approve that as well.

I'm sure you're eager to make a motion.

Okay, I will allow you to make said motion, so go ahead.

No, if it pleases the chair, I'm moved that we adopt as proposed the development code amendment.

Okay, so everyone vote please.

Motion passes 5-0.

Okay. Well, excellent. Well, we'll definitely tackle that further in ad hoc. That's what I want to do. No, and I get it. I'm not trying to cut you off. And I'm sorry. I apologize. So we'll definitely deal with it. I do see that side of it for sure because I've been on the other side of it as far as polling permits. So I get it.

Well, this staff has done a – this regime has done a great job. Yeah. It permits out in timely fashions, but there has been years where there hasn't. You never know when things change.

Absolutely. That is absolutely true. I've been on the other side of it for sure. We never seem to have new business, but do we have any new business? I know that. Okay, excellent.

We have new business. I told you I could give you a whole list.

Yeah, he can give you stuff. Unfinished business? No. Oh, excellent. How about reports? We always seem to have reports and communication.

Yeah, just real brief. I know Sarah left. Sarah was one of our planners that presented on the oak tree ordinance. I wanted the opportunity to introduce her to you, but everything kind of rolled fast because the agenda order flipped. I didn't have a chance because she was up there. she did she was up there she did great and i just wanted to commend her for her job and she's a great planner great add to our department um and as you you already witnessed you know how she did as far as answering questions in regards to her items so uh she did a great job so anyway i failed to do that and i know she left but She hopefully she'll watch the video maybe in sure she'll go running back home and watch that I recognized her Also, I did want to introduce Tatiana Altman She's our deputy city attorney and she's obviously standing in for Taryn Jones and thank you You didn't get introduced either so I think it's good that you're you're here because it's possible you could be here other times as well that that terence conflicted or maybe on vacation welcome for keeping us on track we appreciate that Yeah, the other thing, just as a recap, we talked about even this code that you guys heard it at the Planning Commissioner Academy. Thank you, everyone, for participating in the Academy. And I do understand if Graves couldn't attend, I do get it. But you guys really lived it, right, for that three days that we were there. It to me it just even for staff to be there and we learned I learned a few nuggets out of that Academy and I've been in planning for a good number of years. I'm not gonna say how many years but I did learn some things in there and you guys all learned as far as the state taking away a lot of our local government of control and and that's hard as a local agency wanting to do things the way we want to do it for our community and and you've got the state doing what we we just saw here where they want to mandate that this be included in your code so there's a balance out there for sure and and where there's opportunity we can do it you know we're going to certainly keep things flexible for this city in our code to make sure we're not holding anything back uh... eighty is just by the way you guys have seen it in the report but we really don't get and this is off topic of of diet and you just considered but 63 units is what we got this past 2025 as far as ADUs.

Tell the whole board, though, why.

Well, we do have pre-approved plans, and I want to just be clear on that, too. There's three different floor plans that are pre-approved. Literally, if someone wants to come in and use our pre-approved plans, there's no plan review. It's use the plan and apply it to wherever on the property. that does get looked at but the planet self there's no plan check other than again the site where it's where it's being located so even that uh... but there's a lot of them haven't heard mike about why that we only had sixty three because of the county we waive it all our fees because of our profit right there's there's still there's other fee litigation fee right so the there are other fees pff impact fees that are not all city fees there's the county feeders also school fees you know they're out there that are out of our control and we can't uh... mandate that but we do have these other entities that we even collect for that say have not waived the fee but all of our impact fees that are in our control uh... are waves and we were blamed for the radius So I just wanted to clarify a few things, especially on those pre-approved plans. So it really does come down to, it is an investment. If somebody wants to build something, it's not like it's super cheap. Even if they have pre-approved plans, there's still, as you guys know, the cost of wood and everything else on building materials It's expensive. So, I mean, that is a deterrent for a lot of folks to still, you know, not being taken advantage of the pre-proof plans and not constructing is because of the just the costliness of doing it. I mean, it's amazing what the state has done to make it very simple. I mean, I've never seen something like this before where they're saying you can divide a 5000 square foot lot into two. and create the house and an ADU. And you can also do a house and a house and then create ADUs off of that. You could create four units on one, say, 5,000 square foot lot. It's crazy as far as what is out there as far as opportunities. But I'm still not seeing that here. I haven't seen that concept yet be practiced here in Stockton. And we're trying to put it out there wherever possible, especially on our pre-approved plans. To me, that's a bonus. You're not going through having to hire an architect designer to put those plans together. You just pick. I'll take that model right there. So I'm in a way promoting that in this informational to anybody listening to the planning commission. They're free information. they don't pay for those plans and with new state law there is the county can't charge the fee anymore neither yeah they're starting to catch on as far as the collection yeah and I think the state I think the state's looking at yeah the plans are posted online yeah actually oh okay yeah you're saying yes yeah yeah you go to our what's that then you get yeah no they're they're posted online though is what i'm saying as far as the the information in regards to the pre-approved plans in the process it's all posted on our website oh yeah they're they're they're there's the day the plants three models yeah xdl copyright They're out there for, I mean, the city does want to make sure that they're using the, the only ones that are going to get the, you know, no plan check is going to be with certainty those plans. Yeah. The city approved plans.

Excellent. Okay.

So anyway, that's all I have.

Okay. Well, I'll move on to number nine, Commissioner Comets. I will comment on the fact that the state can continue to pass laws, and it's not going to change a thing until they look at the cost of construction, incentivizing certain types of development. We used to have tax breaks for building multifamily residential back in the day. 86 tax law kind of took that. big blow for that but there are reasons why things are getting built and you can pass all the laws you want to it's not going to change this thing until you look at it a different way but that's just my own soapbox I'll get off of it I do want to say I'll let I'll go ahead and I'll finish up but I'll let our Commissioner Amen go ahead and have the floor

um just a little comment um i know that i'm new to this stuff and i'm gonna ask for a little grace up here i know that sometimes i'm not sure what i should ask for or not ask for and i would hope that those that have more experience would have a little more grace and maybe not get so, what I feel, a little defensive. I know that when I'm saying stuff up here, it's not gonna always go my way, but I think you can tell in this past year that I do my due diligence, I do my homework, and I'm doing my best to learn. So if I'm feeling the way I'm feeling right now, that's not good. And I'm going to ask for grace up here. And I don't like it when I feel aggression coming toward me because of something I've said or maybe I don't have as much knowledge. So instead of doing that, I would ask you to give me grace and maybe explain it to me a little softer. Okay, I am trying up here. This is new. And I know I'm not in the development world and all this other stuff, but I do my due diligence to try to make sure that I'm coming here before I push this button to make sure that I at least have an understanding as to why I'm asking what I'm asking and learning as much as I can. So that's my comment today is I'm asking for a little grace from this dais. Thank you.

Any other Commissioner comments?

Yes, Commissioner Rhoads. I just wanted to comment, because you raised the issue about the planning conference. It was very valuable and useful, and I appreciated that. I wasn't clear, and so I'm going to take the opportunity to do it here. I wasn't clear. There was a lot of talk about this objective standard. I'm going to probably use the wrong word. Objective standards and something. And I thought somebody on staff said that we're working on that. And one, is there a public process for that, too, for people to participate? Or if you could just give me a little bit of information about it.

Yeah, we've been doing that for quite some time. We've, what we call, shaped Stockton. I realize that you just joined the Planning Commission, but there's been a lot of efforts over the past three years of doing a lot of outreach. We call it shaped Stockton because it captured a lot of things going on. The housing element was going on at that time. The general plan had just been approved, and so we were going through a consistency process with zoning and general plan designations. We had a housing action plan that was also going on. There were a lot of things that were going on at that time. In addition to that, objective design standards were another item that we were putting out there for folks. Just to be clear, objective design standards, I think you may have got it in the academy. They kind of generally covered it, but the reason why they're called objective is to try to avoid a lot of discretionary decision making in the process so when you create standards that you just have to comply with then that's all it becomes and you're not going through that discretion of like say design guidelines that give a little more squishiness to what we're looking for or what you know can be approved So that's definitely something that's gonna be written into the code, and that's the intent. We're gonna put it into ordinance as far as the objective design standards at the end of the day, and that'll come before you as a recommending body, and then ultimately city council.

Yeah, but that's still, so I'm not, I understand most of that, but my point was as regards to objective standards, what I understand is on one level the state is telling us we have to do certain things, but there are still places where we can exercise our authority and the creation of these objective standards. So how does the community process weigh in for in regards to the objective standards? I mean, is that's not, I'm asking, are there community meetings that will take place so the people can?

Yeah, again, we were receiving feedback in regards to the objective design standards going forward. And one thing we got out of it, we're not gonna be just eliminating what we have as design guidelines that we've always used and we've done it because it's neighborhood specific in the design guidelines, right? We've got a lot of neighborhoods in this city that have particular designs for that neighborhood. And I guess the key thing is we don't want to eliminate those. We want them to work together and not just create everything objective where it's now gonna look cookie cutter like, everything's gonna look the same around the city because you're using just these straight up objective design standards.

Right. Where does the form-based code fit into that?

In a way, that's kind of a similar term.

Well, yeah, perhaps.

I mean, objective really does identify the form.

Okay, I just want to be clear with that. And then however that interacts with just the other thing you said, the design, what did you say? Design guidelines.

Design guidelines, yes, thank you. But those aren't eliminated as a result of? No, they're not going to be eliminated. They're still going to be available, and again, we don't.

Is there a timeline on the completion of this objective?

Yeah, we're gonna be coming forth hopefully in the next several months with the code. That includes the objective design standards and at that time there's still opportunity again we're we're presenting something before you the public as well but word we're based it off feedback that we received for the past few years of of taking this out to the public we we went to and held a lot of workshops uh... north south parts of stockton east west at either community centers, schools, I mean we were, it was a road show as far as the amount of outreach that was going on for a lot of the efforts being multiple things that we had going in play as far as the housing element, the design guidelines, the standards, just a lot of things.

Yeah. Thanks, Mike. Yeah, I know that's something that every city is having to deal with right across the state. So it's something that every city has to wrestle with. So any other comment? Any other concerns? Call for a motion then to dismiss. I'll make a motion. I'll move to adjourn. I'll move to adjourn. Okay, second. Then we'll adjourn. Thank you.

We're good.