Planning and Zoning Commission - Regular Meeting

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Roll call members, please. Sherpers and Roth.

Here. Commissioner Kinski. Here. Commissioner Ewing.

Here.

Commissioner Donovan. Here. Commissioner Bowman. Commissioner Grass.

Here.

Our new Commissioner Luttrell.

Here.

And Alderman Liaison Prince.

Here.

And we have a quorum.

Approval of the agenda for September 3rd, 2026. Motion to approve. Second. I have a motion and a second. All in favor? Aye. Opposed?

Aye.

Motion carries. Approval of the minutes from May 7th, 2026. Motion to approve. Second. I have a motion. I have a second. All in favor? Aye. Opposed? Motion carried. Introduction of evidence.

Mr. Chairman, I'd like to introduce into evidence the St. Genevieve Municipal Code, the St. Genevieve Comprehensive Plan, and my staff reports and supporting documents for the cases before the commission this evening.

Motion to accept the evidence as presented. Second.

I have a motion and a second. All in favor? Aye. Opposed? Motion carries. Citizen input? Everybody's here in regards to the agenda items, correct? Old business? No. New business? Clean, uh... You can just reference the case number if you want. But can we just do this one first so she can be out of here and then go back? You want to do that? You want to alter it?

Do the guest lodging first? You bet.

Okie doke. We're going to go to SUP 004-26 to operate a guest lodging establishment, Airbnb at 6 Herzog Lane, a single family residential structure.

Okay. As the chairman said, there's been a request for an Airbnb at a single family residence located at 6 Herzog Lane. And in your packet, you will find the application. You'll find my report and some additional photographs, an aerial photograph of the property and current photographs of the house. and kind of the parking area, yard area there as well. So currently the property is located in an R1 single family residential zoning district. The property does meet all the requirements that we have for guest lodging, including parking. I have spoke, it's a blank document in your packet, but I've spoke with the fire chief and the police chief on this item, and they have no issues or concerns with that being an Airbnb. The applicant is present tonight if you have any questions for her, but if you've got any questions for me, I'll be glad to take them. But it meets all the requirements per our municipal code. As you can see in the picture there, there's plenty of parking to be there.

About off-street parking, I don't know how we really place any factor into that, but Herzog Lane is not a city street, so I don't know how that falls in.

as far as the requirement of off-street parking well so if you go down to the end of their lane and look in one of those pictures it shows the garage there's right more than ample parking so it's you know yeah not that we want them parking on what appears to be a city street right but i doubt they will if they're going to access the home they're going to want to park down at the end by the building anyway anybody have questions comments lee do you want to say anything

If anybody has any questions, I'll be happy to try to answer them. I'm not being disrespectful, but I'm getting over a lot of what's between.

Understandable.

The swimmer in me is struggling to breathe at all. Anyway, I'm getting better. Can you hear me?

Okay.

Does anybody have any questions?

Are you planning on having like a mixed use like it's going to be somebody's residence part of the year and then an Airbnb the remaining part or is it full time an Airbnb?

What kind? Okay. It's going to be, you know, my sister Lynn and my brother Mike. And I, we, the three of us own the, we kept the house after mom and dad passed. And so we, the last 15 years or so, we've just been renovating it. And we use it predominantly now just for family functions, like a Christmas party. But those of you that grew up here, you know that House was always one that was very open and everybody came and ice-skated and, you know, always ate and da-da-da-da-da. So we thought, you know, it would be really good if we could, you know, offer it as an Airbnb just once or twice a month. Very minimal because we still use it. But that's kind of... You know, our theory or what we want to get out of this is, and if you guys get up that way, you should really come by, especially if you grew up here, because it really does look good. A lot of the time and energy, mostly my brother Mike and Lynn did. But anyway, yeah. So not anything major. Not a lot of vehicles. I try to drive up there a couple times a week, and I know Mike's in and out of there. But does that answer your question?

Yeah. Was there anything from any of the neighbors? No. Nobody has responded.

There's no other questions from the board? I would like to make a motion to approve with the conditions listed in the staff report.

Second. I have a motion and a second. Do a roll call, please.

Okay. Chairman Roth? Yes. Commissioner Kinski? Yes. Commissioner Ewing?

Yes.

Commissioner Donovan. Yes. Commissioner Grass.

Yes.

Commissioner Luttrell.

Yes.

And Alderman Prince. Yes.

Thank you. Congratulations. Appreciate it.

And that goes to Linda.

Now am I excused at all or do I? You can come up.

Yes. So that'll go to the first reading on the 24th, I think. The 24th?

24th is the correct date.

All right.

Good to see all of you.

Thank you.

Good luck. We'll go to SUB 005-26.

okay this is our subdivision progress point um so this is is really the final plat um exempted out of this plat really is the infrastructure plans so the infrastructure plans are i'd say probably At 90%, I think is a comfortable number there. Mary, if you want to say whether that's about the right number or not, I don't know, but we're there. We're right there. But all of the utility settings and everything are on this plat. They'll be recorded with this plat. It wasn't too long ago that the city owned the property. We divided the property up as part of a plat that was previously before the commission. And this is taking that plat and incorporating it in and dividing everything up into 137 home lots plus the common ground. This also includes... some all the infrastructure that's going to be the cities to maintain and use and then also trails and the playground as well and so the folded up version that was in your packet was the packet there was the one that i printed off earlier this morning And then we had a revision due to some factors. There was some correction of spelling on items and dealing with getting the assignments correct. Nothing to do with what is regulations from the city standpoint. It's more of making it correct to get it recorded. Would that be a fair statement, Mary?

Yeah, that's correct. We're constantly just looking over the past to make revisions.

So none of those items were issues that were concerns of the cities and not meeting the requirements before we brought it to you. But I just want to let you know the ones laying flat is the latest, greatest copy that we'll take before

board of aldermen and then from there it's all approved then we'll have it recorded at that point so they were able to add 10 building lots i guess from the last time because i thought it was at 127 so it's always been a 137 i think it was higher than that before it was almost 200 yeah it was 173 at one point yeah

And a lot of that's happened because of the air vents and property going away from that and any of the sinkhole properties out there. We've got to maintain a distance away from those. So that's what they've come up with to reduce it down. It's been 137 really since I've been on board. Is there still a stormwater management plan that's come forward? Yeah, there is a SWPPP plan that's in the documents with the infrastructure drawings. I don't think we have any outstanding items whatsoever on the SWPPP plan because it's in place right now. They currently have a land disturbance permit And we're using that SWPPP plan, which is approved by the city, to do that land disturbance. And then that will just carry on.

I thought the stormwater management plan was coming before us yet.

It's part of the whole infrastructure package. So what you're looking at tonight is just the approval.

So we didn't look at that yet before. You can. Well, no, and the meeting was The first meeting we had with this, Happy said that the stormwater management plan had to come before us yet.

I don't remember what he said, but yes, so you've got water, sewer, SWIFT, all that, sidewalks and streets, that Robert mentioned earlier is about 90% done. The SWIFT plan, though, is done.

Yeah, SWIFT plan's complete, yeah. We're operating off of it right now. And essentially it's more related to operational of while the subdivision is being developed of how all that stormwater is managed, how we're preventing runoff, not allowing it out onto the streets or into any water waste that are coming in and around the property and materials not getting off site.

Do you have a...

It shows up on the Progress Point Flat 2. It says stormwater management. We're looking at here.

Wasn't there an actual stormwater management plan? There is.

That would be an additional page.

But Happy had said that would come before us because I questioned stormwater management when we wanted approval on that. on the subdivision in the beginning, and he said that the stormwater management plan would have to come before us. Junie, what page is that?

What sheet?

At the bottom right-hand corner.

Sheet 3 of 7.

It can, but not unlike the water and sewer and streams.

on the other side of Fargo Park, common ground and then it's a little further in.

Yeah, so that stormwater management reserve area, that's what you're talking about? Yeah. Yeah, so those are like the detention type areas. When it's all said and done and the thing is developed, those will be in place for all the stormwater to go to those and be managed from that point. And the developer, not the developer, the subdivision organization has, and that information is on the very first page. They will maintain those and be responsible for those. Now, we do have access rights through this to access that as a city to make sure they are maintaining it. And that's part of my department's job to make sure that they're doing that. And we have access to be able to make sure that they're maintaining all those. And all those are designed to not let any more water off of the property than prior to development. But the actual SWPPP plan that we're operating off of doesn't really take into account at this point in time for what we're doing out there now, doesn't take into account those detention bases.

because they're not they're not in operation until we build them but i most certainly can i mean i can go get the swift plan right now it's in a great big role in there but yeah it's right there by my sure what happy or even i said at one point but those plans all have to go through cochran and robert's office to be approved per code What you're approving is the layout of the street.

My question is when we had that first meeting on this subdivision there was an engineer here and I don't know who all and I questioned storm water management and Happy said that that all comes to us later. The storm water management plan.

But it would have to go through Robert's approval and Cochran's approval. What you're approving is the plat. So, Dave, are you saying we have the authority to approve or disapprove of the stormwater plan or the water plan or the sewer plan?

So that's beyond our review?

You want to add to that, Alvaro?

Yeah, I mean it's, you know, those are, those are, I mean, obviously I'm not an engineer, but that's why we have Cochran as a secondary to review those between them and myself. I'm a floodplain manager, so I deal with flooding a lot, which is caused a lot by stormwater. I ran public works for years. Sure.

This property where this is going on four-inch rain, This whole thing was underwater and crossing Parkwood Drive, taller than a fire hydrant. Yes. Because of so much water that comes off of this side of Progress Parkway. Gotcha. Is this the problem?

That was one of the big ones that was open, I think.

I don't know why the question did much of that. Common ground that 10 acres how long progress was that unusable because of the terrain?

Yeah, so that's where where it drops off progress it drops steep off and then there's just a small section that's flat before you get that We call it a creek channel because that's actually that's actually how it's shown on the stormwater improvements is not storm improvements but it's it's shown as a as a creep So here is the beginning page of it. So this is page one of their SWPPP. So with their SWPPP it deals with everything from, like I said, keeping runoff and keeping material from going out onto the streets. So they'll have a gravel entry area. They have what they call a wash down station. They'll have toilet facilities, trash. They'll have a concrete-lined container, so we're not going to dump concrete spoils out along the properties. They'll be dumped in a managed containment system, so there won't be concrete water even washed out onto the ground. They will have temporary detention basins in place that then will become permanent detention basins at that point. so you've got the big one to the north so it's going to catch all that water from uh if we're essentially looking at at your maps there uh a long lot maybe like 76 and 62 if you can see the lot numbers on your on your plans there so from there up is all going to drain to the northeast corner of the property and that will be a big detention base in there and then that will hold the water and let it out at no faster rate than it was coming across that area prior to development. And then also these sinkholes that are shown on here also take on some stormwater drainage as well from the west side of the property. So the very next page is those lots that I just mentioned south. So there's a large detention basin that you can see on. And Judy, that's the one that you mentioned earlier that was on that page. That'll be a sediment basin as well. And again, all the water gets directed down that way and gets dumped off. And then all of that will then, that rate that's not supposed to be any more than prior to development, will come all the way south of the property. and filter out just as it does now it goes this way now because here's where it comes under progress parkway and it goes to a sinkhole up here so the the difference from elevation from here to here is tremendous so i don't know how it's getting to a sinkhole that's up here unless it's underground Because this goes uphill like that to the north.

Okay, then it comes around here. Yes, it kind of comes around this direction. Correct, yeah.

This all goes from the property you were talking about on this side of Progress Parkway. Comes through here, yes. All the corn stuff on this side comes around and wraps and goes in between here and the Archdiocese property.

okay i do want to reiterate you have purview approval over easements and access and layout all those things just not over the engineering specs involved does that make sense okay but that well okay we'll just go with that all right

But I can copy these and send these. I'm more than happy to send these to you all so you can take a look and see what's going on there and what's going to be in place. That's not a problem. Obviously they won't be this big, but you can zoom in and look at all of them for sure.

Okay, back to where we were. If there's no further questions, I will make a motion to approve.

I have a motion.

I'll second.

I have a second. Roll call, please.

Chairperson Roth?

Yes.

Commissioner Kinski? Yes. Commissioner Ewing?

Yes.

Commissioner Donovan? Yes. Commissioner Grass?

Yes.

Commissioner Luttrell? Yes. And Alderman lays on prints.

Yes.

And that passes unanimously.

Okie doke.

brings us to general discussion of possible additions and or amendments to the land use section of the st genevieve municipal code so i have i have a few items here but i'm going to cut it a little shorter and kind of split it up

Basically what I want to talk to you all about is, you know, I've been here roughly five months ish now and there's several things that come up and keep showing up. So these are items that with your all's permission I'd like to put together a list. of these items and send them to you and let you look at them and review them so that at our next meeting we can go over those items and you can kind of look around in your areas or around town to see that you're seeing what I'm seeing and to give you a good example, I included a photo, an aerial photo at the very end of your packet that's not from here. And I'm not going to tell you where it's from, but obviously you can see what county it's in. So if you look down at the lower left hand side where it says 460, that is a single family dwelling. So you can see how much of the lot that that takes up and you can see how much grass there is in that lot. And you can kind of see a theme that's starting to pick up. The house to the north at 462 is kind of starting to do the same thing. And if we jump across the alleyway there at 383, it's kind of starting to do the same thing. So those are kind of things that are cropping up here as well. So we're getting too much lot coverage.

Don't we have a code on percentage?

We do on rear yard only, not on the entire lot. Oh, okay.

I thought it was the whole lot.

Yeah, it's 30% of your rear yard. There's not a whole lot coverage amount, unfortunately. At least not that I've been able to find anywhere.

I thought it was included in that table.

Do what?

I thought it was included in that table at the front of the chapter.

It's not a whole lot coverage. There you go. So... The other part of all of that is when you have these accessory buildings like a garage, a shed, and you start putting them close to the house, we've got a regulation that says if they get less than 10 feet of the house, so if it's 9 foot 6 inches away from the house, it's considered part of the house for zoning purposes. So that means it has to meet the setbacks the same as the house. And we've got a lot of structures that that aren't that way. We're also getting structures that are put on vacant lots that are right next to the lot with the house on it. And you can't have an accessory structure like a garage on a vacant lot without a main house. so to do that you can still do that there's a couple different ways one you build across the lot line that connects them together zoning wise or you get them officially that lot line gotten rid of and then you can put the garage there so it's going to be things similar to that so i'll make a list and let you guys go over it and then at the next meeting we can kind of kind of go through those um the the big one uh really and it's it's a topic that probably most people Either you like it or you don't like it all the cities I think are dealing with it and it's something that we're going to start going to need to get a handle on before Somebody does ask about it. We need to start looking at developing regulations for data centers We need to get ahead of the game so that if somebody comes and wants to do one because right now a data center here is not defined and So literally somebody could fill this building that we're in right now with servers. Really, that's a data center. And it's going to take a lot of cooling even though it's the building of our size. So if you have a house that's right next door to all that, you might not want to hear that, right? So we want to make sure that we have the appropriate things in place so that if somebody is looking at doing that, they can look at our rules and regulations and go, If I come there, this is what I'm going to have to do. They know what to expect.

Have you looked at the Perryville regulation? Yes. What Perryville did was they saw this as an issue and they enacted a regulation kind of on a hurry up basis. And then they said, well, we need to tighten it. Not necessarily because there was some developer out there, but just because they realized that they needed to tighten it. And then they have tightened it again. And I think time is of the essence. And so even if, you know, our regulation was not perfect. It's better than nothing, at least initially, and we could do what Perryville's doing, and I think Perryville's regulation has got a lot to commend itself for, in particular with regard to noise, because through a fortunate happenstance, the city attorney was in the Navy and was an expert on sonics and so basically wrote the regulations so that it regulates both noise and tonality and tonality is basically the spikes. Noise is the average decibels and tonality focuses on the spikes and as I'm sure you can imagine you could have a generally low level, but if there's a sudden loud piercing sound, it's quite annoying no matter how generally low the level might be. So I think we need to move on this.

So the administrator and I have attended some meetings and classes hearing kind of from both sides of the deal. And like you said, we've gotten Perryville's ordinance. So what I'd like basically to tell you all that we're gathering those items to make rules and regulations. And I kind of like to do the same thing as what I just described before. We'll put some stuff together.

Are you going to put together a proposed regulation?

Yes. So that way you guys can take that and view it and we can put things in, put things out, and come up with something that gets us something we feel comfortable with at this stage. And then like you said, if there's something we need to change, we can always change it.

Was Perry County also looking at that so it doesn't move out of the county?

No, Perry County... So I've been to a lot of the meetings. Perry County is taking the position that there is nothing that the county can do. There are other counties in Missouri that have done moratoriums, six month, one year moratoriums. They have not been challenged in the court yet as to the validity of the moratoriums. The Perry County Commission doesn't believe it has the authority to do the moratoriums. There are other things that counties can do. But right now, the legislature hasn't spelled them out. Like, you may recall that... Pardon?

Has our county looked at it yet?

To my knowledge, no. But it's somewhat similar to when the silica sand mine was proposed out towards Hawn in Weingarten. And... There are things that a county can do, but they would be primarily focused on public health. So the silica sand mine was delayed and ultimately the developers decided to walk away from the project, but it was delayed based on a health department regulation that was combined with a county commission ordinance. They were basically identical, but the health department had the power to make the regulation. And the ordinance basically imposed a penalty should one violate the regulation. So there are things, I think, frankly, Perry County's a little bit wrong. I think there are things, steps that county could take now. There's hope that when the legislature zooms, they will spell out what counties can do. I'm not aware of our county doing anything at the present time. The other thing that Perryville said was they would be keen, Perryville would be keen on annexing a county property. So if a farmer on a property just outside the county or the city boundaries wanted to sell his property to a data center but wanted the data center to be subject to some level of regulation, the city of Perryville or at least the city administrator said he would be in favor of that sort of annexation. I don't even know if that would possibly apply, but my great fear is right now, for all I know, a farmer is being offered $100,000 an acre for property in the county that abuts the city. So I think...

Those are issues we need to move on quickly. Definitely. I think, you know, because if somebody wants to do something like that, they're going to want to know up front what's expected of them. And we want to ensure ourselves and the rest of our citizenry that we're doing what's best for them. Even if we end up with a data center or somebody, whatever community it is, that all the things are in place to be able to...

Sorry, I'll get up there if I can hear. I would really commend looking at the Perryville regulation, the latest incarnation of the Perryville regulation. Some of the provisions may be challenged in the law, and a developer can do that, but at least if they're there, they basically have a provision that says there will be no non-disclosure agreements in connection with the development. They also have a provision that says the developer abandons the project they've got to restore the property back to its original value or sell it to the city for a buck if the city wanted it back for a buck. So I mean I think that that I think I don't believe in reinventing the wheel right so there may be there may be tinkering on it for instance I Perryville believes that the only possible location for a data center of any sort of magnitude would be in Perryville's industrial park. There may be locations that we have in our city that would be suitable for a large-scale, if not a hyperscale, data center that are not in the Perryville industrial park. And so we may want to look at some different approaches.

Well, that goes back to my example of having it in a building like this. If we have a building, a warehouse building that's available, but it's not in the industrial park, then we want to have something there that regulates that or doesn't allow it at all or whatever we determine that's going to be. But that's what I'm looking at is getting your guys' input and we'll present something. Dave and I will work on this and we'll present something to you guys and That way we can get it moved from here up to council or up to the Board of Aldermen and go on from there. But just to be clear, we have not received or been contacted at all about any data center. Proactive. Anything. It's all a proactive approach.

I wouldn't be opposed to a special meeting if you have the regulation.

Yeah.

Okay.

Do we ever address container homes? Do you think there's a need to?

Well, so they would have to meet the building code regulation and a container home is not, it would have to have some unique, it would really have to be designed by an architect with a license from the state of Missouri to be allowed because it's not able to be constructed under the residential building code. So it would be unique in that because it doesn't fit the model code, then it has to be engineered. So not that there wouldn't be requirements for that. It would still have to meet your minimum building code requirements, but as far as supports and things like that, that'll be the engineered side of it. But size-wise, it might even, it depends on what size container you got. If you got one of the 40-foot containers, it's bigger than what a tiny home would be and actually would meet the spacing requirements for a hole.

I mean, just seeing some of them on TV, they stack them and cut them and all that. All that would have to be engineered.

I've seen them stuck in the ground sideways at angles. But all that would be engineered, and if somebody wants to do that, we're more than glad that they can look at that.

Going back to the OE buildings, Robert, if y'all would consider like the historic homes where things are too close, but your insurance says that's not part of your house. You've got a shed in the back that's maybe five feet away, living on Main Street in an historic home. And my insurance company says that is not the house. I have to insure it separately. So I can't see the city telling me it's part of the house.

well it's just for zoning only not building regulations so for zoning requirements it's for setback purposes that's what it's there for it's not to regulate construction or anything like that it's simply okay yeah it's kind of one of those things like uh commissioner kinski mentioned most of these if you look at planning zoning regulations throughout cities in missouri It's St. Genevieve didn't reinvent the wheel when they made that requirement. Most of the cities around here have that exact same requirement. Not that that's right or wrong, but they have that same requirement. So we're looking at tweaking those whether it's one way or the other. That's why I'm bringing it to you guys to be able to make those decisions. And that's all I've got. Other than two pages of notes, that was it? Yeah, because I really don't want to get fully into the rest of them. We'll be here a while. So I can put them all on that sheet, and you guys can look at them. Excellent.

Motion to adjourn. We've got a motion and a second. All in favor? Aye. Opposed? Motion carried. Thank you.