County Commission - Regular Meeting

This morning, I'm not sure.

We're live chairman. We're all back. We are live.

Several years ago, I'm talking about 25 or 30. Hey, Senator, come on in. Was there a check in the mail? All right, I knew it was. Several years ago, we were in the courtroom next door, and we had our first great big screen TV set up over there, and there was a big economic development announcement in St. Clair County. I think it was Eichmann. I think it was that announcement when Eichmann came from Germany, and that's when Governor... Bob Riley was in office, and technology was just catching on, and we were going to have our technology rolled out for the citizens to see, so the newspaper was there. Back then you had a newspaper, and they were there, and the TV stations from Birmingham, and there's our big screen, and it's split into four ways, and one place it was split was in Germany in Heidelberg in a room at a hotel. And you had Governor Riley and me and a couple of UDC people were there. It was a big announcement. Everybody was happy about it. And we were all excited about our technology. So we actually said, you know, let's just bump this up a notch. So let's get Congressman so-and-so on here. Put him in one of these squares. So we did. He had this apparatus in his office in Washington, DC, where the highest technology in the world probably should be. And you look up on the screen, and what is that? It's a long, long conference table. And there's this human, but you couldn't tell who it was, because it's a little, sitting at the far end. And that was our congressman. And so when we got into the announcement of the company coming here and all that kind of stuff, first of all, by the way, before we got all the little four screens to come up in Germany, it was like this. We were doing the same thing when we were here. What do we got to do? Because all the instructions were in German. We had to wait a little while, call the guy from the hotel to come in and set it all up. We get it all set up, and we had all the announcements, and we got finished. And people started calling in about that Congressman so-and-so that was on there. We couldn't see him. He was far away. And they didn't realize in his office in Washington, DC, that you could zoom in on the Congressman. So we looked across this long table for the entire meeting for the announcement. uh not knowing that you could mash a little button over here and zoom it in and that's kind of where we are here 40 years later well it wasn't that long 30 years later we're almost in the same spot but we do have closer people that don't speak german to fix it so appreciate you getting that taken care of we do live stream all of our meetings our regular commission meetings uh including our 9-1-1 meetings because it's usually in in conjunction with our meetings And then our work sessions, we do have some meetings that are not live streamed because we have people coming in and out talking about personnel issues and those kind of things that we don't put out live stream. Some of them may be publicly sensitive to be able to legally put them out. So those those meetings some of our budget meetings we actually hold because we have meetings with different people Concerning the budget so some of those but whenever we take action on the budget and all that that is that is live stream so we feel like we're Really serious about putting the information out there to the public as much as we possibly can and Having said that and giving them time to get all this tweaked, if you'll go with me, I'll ask God to bless the proceedings of our meeting today. Dear God, we come before you again, dear Lord, just honoring you and thanking you, dear Lord, for being our God and having the place in our lives that you have, dear Lord. uh god we thank you for your grace uh we know we don't deserve it uh but god we just uh thank you so much for uh for your grace and your example of grace so that we can do that with each other and god we also know that your guidance is listed in the bible on elected officials elected bodies dear lord we know it was important to you or you would not have mentioned the elected officials positions in the bible as many times as you did your lord so Knowing how important that is, dear Lord, we know that our positions are not just important in an earthly way, but they're important in a godly way. And we ask your guidance on all the things that we do in this meeting, dear Lord, so that they'll give you honor and lift you up in all that we do. We also ask you, dear Lord, to continue to walk with us, to keep us healthy, keep our society healthy, keep the little pains of compassion in our hearts so that we know that there are people out there that don't have the things that we have, dear Lord, and we just ask you to keep that pain before us, dear Lord, and understand what it means. All these things we ask in Jesus' name. Amen. indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Okay, you may be seated. We will, in St. Clair County, the county commission sits as the 911 board. There are a few counties in Alabama, three or four, that the county commission decided to be the 911 board instead of appointing one. We did that several years ago, and We, during the process of setting up our centralized dispatch, then 911 has had a really important role in that because dispatch has continually become uh the delivery system for 9-1-1 under the 9-1-1 rules there's a lot of rules nationwide and then statewide concerning the delivery of 9-1-1 services so we contract with the sheriff's department and central dispatch and they actually dispatch for every entity that needs dispatched in this county and within that if you dial 9-1-1 it pops up on the phone system in dispatch center as a 9-1-1 call and it also allows us to track that increasingly more and more of the calls we get in are 9-1-1 calls so we 9-1-1 is very important so we we see it as the 9-1-1 board it's a separate budget the money comes from fee on your phone bill and some money also provided by different governments that we if we need to subsidize it which in some counties they They pay for certain services. So that's the meeting we'll have first. It won't last very long. But it's a very important meeting. So with that, the first meeting that we'll have, I'll call to order the meeting of the 911 board, which is the emergency communications district. Y'all got the agenda in front of you. If you will look at that, and you probably already have, and then a motion to approve the agenda. Motion. Second? Second. Properly moved and seconded. Any discussion? All in favor say aye. Aye. All opposed no. Motion carries. Next you've got the approval of the minutes of the 9-1-1 board meeting December the 9th 2020. Any motion to approve that? So moved. Second? Any discussion? All in favor say aye. Aye. Members are approved. Now, moving on to new business. You see a list there of the renewal of Southern Software contracts. And without going through those, which I don't think I understand any of them, but if you need to ask any questions, Aslyn's here. And she can explain those at length if you need for her to. But if you'll look at that long list of southern software contracts, entertain a motion to approve those. Motion. Second. Properly moved and seconded to approve those contracts. Any discussion on any of those? If not, all in favor say aye. Aye. All opposed, no. Motion carries. Thank you, Aslan, for making those so clear to us. Next item on the agenda, consider the in-digital proposal for a one-time cost in the amount of $12,901.87 for integrating central dispatch into the new phone system. We're in the process of putting in a new phone system. I know our revenue commissioner back there is happy with that. Mr. Grove, in this, in Pell City especially, where our phone system's dropping calls and it's just old, so we're replacing that phone system, and this is a process, I think, that integrates our central dispatch into that phone system. Is that correct? Have a motion? So moved. Second? Second. Properly moved and second. Any more discussion on that? Item 3 consider approval of a policy for st. Clair County 9-1-1 addressing standards pending review by the county 9-1-1 board of and the county attorney. So to get that policy underway, then we will approve having a policy and then we'll have time to review that policy by the board here and by the county attorney before we actually adopt it. So I have a motion to do that. Second? Second. Properly moved and seconded. Any discussion on that at this time? Are we still, are some of the municipalities still doing their own addressing?

We have three that do, and so they're already following the standards that are in this policy. This just gets it on the books.

Okay, very good. Any other questions? All in favor say aye. Aye. All those no. Motion carries. Item four, consider a request from 911 Director Aslan Campbell to surplus and dispose of various equipment, and you have a list of it, and... You can go over that list, and generally there's a shredder on here. There's several monitors, monitors, that sort of thing. So entertain a motion to approve that list. I have a motion and a second. Properly moved and seconded. Any discussion on any of those? I think any time we do a surplus like this, we've learned also to, if it's something that works at all, is there somebody else that can use it? And we try to do that before we get to this point. Any other discussion? All in favor say aye. Aye. All opposed, no. Motion carries. Item five. Consider request from 911 Director Ashton Campbell to transfer various equipment. to the IT and the sheriff's offices. And you have that on that attached list also. Have a motion? Motion. Second? Second. Properly moved and second. And this is an example in discussion of what I said of some equipment other people can use. Any other discussion? All in favor say aye. Aye. Opposed, no. Motion carries. That's all we have on this agenda, but before I move on, I wanted to... We've got some people here interested in the subdivision regulations that we're going to address here in a little while in our county commission meeting. And... One of the concerns that we have to be sure in this subdivision regulation are the requirements for developers as it relates to the numbering of a house, a numbering of their subdivision as it relates to 911. And sometimes those standards change within 911. We're still having problems. We've had 911, enhanced 911, it used to be called years ago. And we still have trouble with things that we didn't think about. mobile home parks especially a mobile home park that's on one parcel of land that's only split up on a piece of paper so they can rent the lots out what's the address one address out on the road what if it's 30 mobile homes which house has mama having a heart attack so we've got we've got some issues that have to continuously be tweaked within that system so when you hear me talk about pulling the 9-1-1 director in here on discussions of subdivision regulations that's why the addressing of those individual homes with people in them is very important to the communications emergency communications district and that falls into some of the requirements we have of being able to offer those services to everybody and uh so you'll you'll you'll hear aslan uh in in some of these meetings as we discuss things like subdivision regulation but we've got new things that's popped up that you know what about uh you used to campground okay campgrounds campground people go in and camp and they A week later, they go home. Not necessary. We've got several campgrounds now that half of them, the people live there. Well, what's their address? So we've got to go back and make sure we have a separation of the lots so we can actually address them so that we can find that person in the vernacular of the original 911, I've fallen and I can't get up. Y'all remember that? That's how it was advertised years ago. I certainly don't remember that. I can tell. I can tell that. and that's but that's become very important to us we don't want to leave anybody behind because we didn't have a proper address for them when the emergency happened so i wanted to mention that before we adjourn aslan appreciate you being here uh and candace we were waiting we were killing time you got here i appreciate that am i really up it's not your turn With that, that's all the activity we have on the agenda for the communications district. Do I have a motion to adjourn? Second. Properly moved to second. Any discussion? All in favor say aye. Aye. All opposed no. Motion to adjourn the 9-1-1 meeting. Okay, now moving on in your packet to the actual meeting of the St. Clair County Commission on On this date, June the 23rd, I've got the agenda there in front of you. Well, first of all, I'll call that meeting to order. I have a motion and a second. Any discussion on the agenda, any additions, deletions? Also, something sometimes comes up in the middle of a meeting that causes us to have to say, let's back up a little bit and amend the agenda, and somebody has to put something in that we left out, so you hear that happen too. So our agenda is a live document also. Any other discussion? All in favor say aye. Aye. All opposed, no. Motion carries. Next item, approve the minutes of the regular meeting June the 9th, 2026. Have a motion? Motion. Second. Promptly moved and seconded. Any discussion? All in favor say aye. Aye. All opposed, no. Motion carried. Now, in report section, now we're up to work. Candace Hill gets to give us a wise counsel and some information on some fantastic grants that I'm sure we're out this close to getting. This close. This close.

we are working on some applications which is the first step right so I have been talking with Patrice and with widow Brian's and they're walking us through the steps for that it's called the FEMA BRIC so they call it the brick grant and what they're looking at is the safe room that we're talking about putting behind the in the property that you all own in Asheville already That grant will require a 25% match, and it's our understanding that the land cost itself, the land value, can be that match. So we're hoping that that winds up being the case, and that's how we're planning to move forward. But in order to put that grant application in, we have to get everything to the state by July 2nd. And the budget is not finished because we haven't gotten the quote completely back from the group who's designing the safe room. So we've got an idea because you've done one before and it was around $165,000. So that's what we're expecting it to come back as. I know there's not as much grading and things like that that need to be done with this project as there were with the last one. So all that said, we need a resolution to go with the grant application that shows that the county agrees to a 25% match for the budget of that project.

You've heard the request from Candace. We'll go ahead and take action on that.

That's item one of new business. Okay.

Let's go ahead and take action now while Candace is here. Have a motion. Have a second. Second. Properly move to second. Any discussion? All in favor of that motion, say aye. Aye. Opposed? No. Okay.

The second thing that we're going to consider today is the EPA grant with, I had mentioned to you all that Coosa Valley has received their million dollar appropriation from Congressman Rogers office and we talked a little bit at the last meeting about covering the administrative cost for that grant for Coosa Valley. I spoke with Wood O'Brien's, and I had initially thought that it wouldn't be that big of a deal. But it turns out that the grant writing actually would be paid for under the EPA grant, which we definitely want for that to be the case if it can be. And the grant writing itself usually winds up being between 2% and 4% of the grant. So it's a more expensive endeavor, but it gets covered under the grant.

So the engineering of whatever the project's going through.

So I don't think there's any action that has to be taken on that, but I do want for you all to just be up to date on what that would cost and kind of how that would get paid for. and I have spoken with Coosa Valley quite a lot in the last little bit. We're still waiting on a grant agreement from EPA, and I think after we get that grant agreement, we'll move a little faster, and so I'll just keep you updated.

So, Chairman, on item two is on the agenda. Consider the request of Coosa Valley Water Authority for appropriation for administrative costs. And that... The EPA grant, do we need to table that, or...

we can either table it or take action we'll just have it taken care of later on so it's it's up to you all that is an appropriation for the administrative cost of that grant now this this grant is a direct appropriation that we got last year is that the million dollars yes and it's a direct appropriation but the deal is administered as a grant it's administered as a grant so we have to fill out the application and go through the whole process EPA is very different than like your funds that come through the state that we're so used to seeing is the water and sewer funds and I spoke with Byron Woods and he said this is outside of what we usually do so So they were excited that WIT was around to help them do the administration on it.

We don't see any issues. I mean, Coosa Valley's in the loop on this, and they're doing the project. And the main goal of this is to continue to improve Coosa Valley. to eventually tie all the systems in the county to Coosa Valley so that nobody has a water problem as such. We got a huge permit for water. We're pumping some, but we could pump a lot more than we are. And Coosa Valley's gonna end up being very important later on for the development of the county. It's one of those things where if a water system says, well, we just can't allow that, landowner to develop his land because we just don't have the water for it. Well, it's hard to say that in St. Clair County when we're sitting on a permit for 12 million gallons a day and only using 30. So we pretty well got our water issue solved for now. It's just a matter of connecting everything together. So that's where that million comes in. And hopefully we'll look for the same process this year for another million.

And the more we can get in these ways, the more that we can get grant funded, the less it costs the consumer in the long run. So I think that's the goal.

I appreciate your help on that. There's a couple of grants. If it hadn't been for your footwork last year and the paperwork that you've submitted, we've got two appropriation grants, and they're really difficult to get them.

We appreciate being able to do it.

We could just talk our state senators and representatives into giving us appropriations the same way. Oh, I'm sorry, Senator Bell, we'll talk to you about that after the meeting so we don't embarrass you or anything.

If you don't have any more questions for me, that was all I had today.

It's worth $40,000.

Roughly, that's what we're expecting. And the last time, y'all were able to use that as the land value as a match. So that's what we're really hoping for this time.

Good deal. All right. Thank you. Any questions for Candace at this time?

OK.

Thank you, Candace. Did we take action on one? We did. All right. Mark that down. I'll put an X up on that so I'm not down there. But we haven't taken action on two, right?

Correct.

All right, before Candace leaves, let's go ahead and take action on that. Consider request Kusaveta Water Authority for an appropriation for administrative cost for their EPA grant application. Now, motion? So be it. Second? Second. Robert, move to second. Any discussion? Looking at that, if we had to come up with money, you'd at least get an idea of how much that would be. And we get $1 million. And I think most of these are. Is this a 20% match? Or do we know that yet? We don't know yet. Okay. All right. Okay. Any other discussion? All in favor say aye. Aye. All opposed no. Motion carries for that. So that'll take care of that million dollar grant that we got last year. Now, moving on to... Clay Phillips, our county engineer, he has his report there in front of him. He's got a couple items on his agenda. So Clay, you're up.

Good morning. Good morning. The first item is just to update you on the crews and projects. Paving crews finished up in the Wattsville, Lowcove City area doing hot mix work. They'll still go back before the year's out to finish some of the tar and gravel. And they've moved to the Springville area right now. We've finished a subdivision off 11 in the Springville area, and we've moved to Count Road to do some work that's been in agreement to do for a couple years now. The base crew, of course, the base crew has been on Caddo Creek Road It's for a federally funded, the work they're doing is for a federally funded road project. They've been there for a couple weeks and a few more weeks still to go. And I want to bring you up to speed on the Kerr Road US 411 project. The weather's just been awful. The rain and everything and they haven't been able to move in and do any work for the past two weeks, so.

Finally got a little rain.

I mean a little dry weather. And also Jones Contract and the contractor that got the bid to build our new equipment storage building, they started yesterday and they're out there this morning as well.

what where's that Jones contracting from okay I just want to mention we've used a contractor out of Springville Jones and Jones and I've got to look in did you know there's like six Jones and Jones incorporated contractors so this there is one in Springville but the one that got this contract for that building is out of Albertville

Okay, item number two is to consider subdivision regulations for St. Clair County.

Before we move on to two, if you would, we've got some people here. I think this would be a good time to go ahead and talk about that. You mentioned the Kelly Creek project and the widening of the Kelly Creek project, and we've got some citizens here that live there, and we want to give them a chance to... give us their concerns about the road out there. Kelly Creek Road, that turns off of Highway 174 on, I guess that would be the north end, and it runs all the way to basically the interstate bridge. Where does it come, go from Kelly Creek to being the other road right there at the intersection? All the way to the bridge at the interstate.

And past the bridge.

And past the bridge. So it's all the way down to San Diego?

It's county road up to the right of way of the interstate on the north side of the interstate.

Which is almost it. That road as 411 has been in our news and the hearts and minds of the people in about a third or more of our county, 411 has become our highway 280 problem What we kind of compared it is it's growing faster than we can address the issues over there And it's not ours as a county and it's not really the states. It's us highway for And and it's it's it's a project that's grown in cost to somewhere around a hundred million dollars We don't have that kind of money so it's a federal project and the federal government is would fund it through the state. And the design standards have changed numerous times over the years, causing it to go from, let's say, $30 million up to now $100 million. Sidewalks, back trails, landscaping, more right of way. It's just got crazy. And so part of that under the current administration in Washington, the new highway director that was taking out some of those requirements, hopefully bringing the cost back down some. But during this time, cost of construction alone has gone up. So somewhere, these two figures are going to meet. And the state will know what that project is going to cost and will it become a priority. And it hasn't got there yet. It's not a priority for the state. The county has applied for a grant through Washington, DC, that just paid for the planning phase of that grant. That would move it up a notch on the state level. Now, I said that about 411 because that now has directly impacted Kelly Creek Road. As 411 has gotten to be a terrible place to try to navigate, people are turning off of 174 onto Kelly Creek Road to travel over to Interstate 20. uh are a big part of it uh and i don't i don't think even we recognized until it just started really well i think the engineers pointed out to me we have a lot of people if you if you look at the traffic flow from raglan down 144 to 231 up 231 to 174 down 174. then i sort of split Part of them, a big part of them, go over to I-59 through Argo Margaret, the Sandy Road. And it's a huge problem over there. It backs up a long way from the intersection there at Margaret. So the people, instead of going over there and being backed up and going I-59, some of those people are going to 20. So they're now diverted just because of that's how they figure out how to get there quicker. They're now on Kelly Creek Road. and so we realized that kelly creek road has now become a major uh connector road for lack of a better term probably is it listed as a major connector now are they not listing anymore they have that terminology the mpo considers that the regional planning commission greater birmingham considers it a major collector major collector yes and uh that's a term that we use to get funding for and uh as a major collector it has to be maintained a certain has to be maintained with certain curves, certain width, and all that to accommodate the traffic. Or when we apply for federal money, we don't get it unless the road is to the standards of a major collector. Am I getting there? So it's not that the county has diverted traffic. It's just the flow of the traffic. So that road came up on the engineers plans a few years ago as being eroded. It had to be upgraded to continue to comply for the standards to meet for us to get money as a major collector through the MPO. So therein is what's happening now. It had to be widened. And the engineering was done. It had to be widened. To widen it, it's going to be widened. I think one of the gentlemen said it's going to be six feet. I think the actual pavement's two feet on each side. But you can't just do two feet, because you've got to put down the church base and all that stuff up and down there, rock and all that. So kind of looking at six feet encroachment into where normally people have been used to their mailboxes being, their driveway pipes, the turn-ins to their farms, all of those things. So people living there now are going to be impacted just by that part. And in our experience over the years, what's going to happen when that road is made a really nice wider road? They're going to drive faster. So now the people living out there have those concerns. And I set that up, and we've got a couple people here that not want to speak. So if you want to address us to that, you most certainly can. Sure.

Up there here. Who are you going to get, Blake?

Blake can come up here. This is Blake Wester who lives over there on that road. I'm Blake Wester. I've lived on Kelly Creek Road 43 years, all my life. Yeah, and they've got good gardens over there. You can look at the lake there. Well, thank you. Good grills. No gardens. But long story short, I believe that coming up here and talking has been made perfectly clear this morning is a waste of breath. Completely a waste of time. But nobody knew this was going on. None of the citizens out there knew it was going on. Completely blindsided. We found out when Batco showed up. The fact of it is, Kelly Creek Road has grown exponentially because of unbridled, untapped, uncontrolled growth over the last several years. Some of that growth can be considered quite reckless because it has grown so much. But that's neither here nor there. We are where we are. At this current moment, that road has become a speed thoroughfare. People are driving 55, 60, 70 miles an hour. I got passed on a double yellow out there this morning. Yes, there's been fatalities on that road. Most of that's because folks drive like they ain't got good sense, just to be quite honest. Mr. Butler, who lives back here, has had several people wreck and a couple die on his property because they're driving Crazy. But as 411 has become a three-headed monster, and nobody can come down that road. I mean, it takes 45 minutes sometimes to come down through there from Moody. The citizens, as you mentioned, have found out Kelly Creek Road is the path of least resistance. By widening that road three feet, not only is it going to cause the citizens out there that didn't know it was going to happen to have a mess and a nightmare on their hands, It's going to invite more people to that road. So it's going to take it from the 280 to now Kelly Creek's going to be your 119. By that being the 119, they're not talking about widening the bridge, so you're going to have a choke point there. Somebody who drives trucks passing on that road at that bridge will already make you pucker up. That bridge would need widened if you're widening that road. But increasing the speeds and making it where people can move faster, in my opinion, is quite reckless. Because it's putting undue burden on the people that live on that road. I mean, nobody wanted it. The people who live there don't want the mess. But beyond the mess, they don't want it where I turned right on 174 of 174 on the Kelly Creek the other day counted 55 cars at 5 o'clock. 55 in a line waiting to turn left. So you got a bad curve on 174 that people drive way too fast on that road as well. People are trying to turn left. They can't turn left because the traffic's uncontrolled at the 174 Kelly Creek Interchange. So it's gonna cause more backup onto that road, so now you're gonna take it from a 45 minute mess on 411 to a 45 minute mess on Kelly Creek Road as well. While people that live on that road gotta drive a narrow road that's gonna be a little bit wider, but now it's gonna be the widest road in the county. Why was it picked out to be the widest road in the county? In my opinion, and the opinion of several others, because they can't do anything about the three-headed monster that is 411. So like I said, I'm pretty sure that coming up here is futile. I know it is. It's already been made clear this morning that there's nothing we can do about it. And it's been made clear that one of them said, you don't want to make it safer. It has nothing to do with making it safer. It has to do with it's going to make it worse. Because instead of them driving 55, they're going to be doing 65 and 75. I mean... If you drove down that road, if you don't believe it, go sit in my parents' driveway and watch how fast people drive. We put the fence up for the simple fact of that I didn't want my kids out playing in the yard getting near it. Because they drive like absolute lunatics, not for lack of a better term. That's just the nature of people. But inviting more people there is going to make that worse.

And I've spoke my piece. Thank you. Thank you for your input. Even if your input might be, we didn't invite it early enough, for one thing. And I apologize for our system not being able to address that early on, get that kind of input in here. Had somebody else wanted to address it? Yes, sir.

Butler Farms is on Kelly Creek Road. It's about a 300-acre farm. We've got a lot of road frontage, and we get a lot of traffic through the fence. In the last four years, we've had one fatality and three, at the best of our recollection, at least three other excursions into our fields. And most all of it is a very short area at the very bottom of our property where it goes down and up and it turns at the same time. And as Blake says, they think 70 standard. And then you get a little bit wet, car gets a little bit light, they spin out, go through the fence. Well, the fatality was going the other direction, did the same thing. Got a little bit light, ran off the road, hit a tree, and killed the lady. This is not going to do anything but make it faster and make it more prevalent. I don't like the fact of having to try to get the cows out of the road in the middle of the night from somebody who has gone too fast on the road, unsafely. I think the last one we had was last summer. A guy went off the road, went through the fence, went about 150 foot out into the field because it was going that fast, missed his car. Missed our fence up for about a hundred foot He survived But it's an ongoing event if I could go back more than four years I would tell you probably I could give you another four or five six seven times I mean it happens about every year at least once I'm concerned about having agricultural district that is turning into a city district, let's be honest, you know, one day we probably won't be able to have a farm there. I don't know. I'd hate to see that happen. You know, it's been there forever. So my concern is, you know, these areas that I can show you, if y'all came out there, where they're losing control, is there anything that can be done to stop the heaps change the camber of the road in that section so that they can go around it at 70 miles an hour instead of spinning out. Because they're going to do it. The kids think it's a racetrack. And our entrance in and out of our farm is right there in that curve. So we have a hard time seeing. They're coming over the hill and we're pulling out with a 40 foot trailer. And I can only see as far as I can see. So I think that section there needs to be at least looked at for safety, put it at a slower speed limit, and enforce it. One of the things is nobody seems to enforce the speeds out there. Or at least if they do, it's very rare. And I'll leave it at that for you.

Thank you. DAVID BURRAGE. Thank you, Mr. Butler and Mr. Wester. And I think that's just two people. That's an example that's concerned. And I can't. shut up sometime when I've got something on my mind that I think is an issue. The commissioners know that this kicks me under the counter here once in a while to slow me down a little bit. Here's part of what I see happening out there unless we look more and more into this. And this is one of our concerns on our subdivision regulations. All this has to lead into this growth thing. And we've talked about our biggest challenge in this county. and I've said this for several years now, is what I called urbanization, trying to give it a name, urbanization of our county. This is still listed as a rural county, but it's fast becoming a county that's not going to even be looked at as rural with our state representatives and congressmen in DC both. It's going to be looked at as an urban county. Well, here's the urban solution, and you're not going to like this at all. But we're going to go to the state, and we're going to tell them that the traffic turning over there off of 174 is backing up on 174, and there's another safety issue. Before you even get on Kelly Creek Road, here's going to be the state solution. They'll start putting in a turn lane. What will a turn lane do? It'll invite more people to turn on to. Catch 22 almost. But I never like to say there's nothing we can do. That's what we're here for. One of our jobs is what can we do? What can we do to make it better for the traveling public and the citizens that live there. There's got to be some things we can do. One of them may be speed. We make and base the speed limits on the curves of that road. That road's got a lot of curves in it. And the radius of those curves sometimes dictate the speed. Now, you could post 25 mile an hour if you want to, but they'd still drive 60 if they want to. I'm somebody that's done that before. I'll go ahead and confess today. And not necessarily on that road, but other places. I'm going to drive as fast as the place will allow me to. So somewhere in there, though, there's some solutions on road design safety issues that we know are coming. We know that road is... a tough issue today and will be worse tomorrow. And if they put in a turn lane, it will be worse again. And you're exactly right. The three-headed dragon monster over there is diverting that traffic onto Kelly Creek Road. I said this morning to some people, the development that's going on in the Margaret area, Margaret and Argo area. We've got Saini Road over there. It's a very similar situation. It just clogs up. I bet you we could take a bulldozer and plow a logging road, put a little gravel on it, from somewhere around Margaret and come out at Odenwald. If you look on the map, that's where you can go. In fact, you can go through the woods over there. When I was a game warden, I could go through some places over there because I checked hunters back in there. uh if you've cleaned out one of those roads people would start driving they'd take that back that's like a lot of these city planners and planners like in washington dc where are we going to put a new sidewalk on the washington mall where people have been walking across and killing the grass we put it where the people go and that's kind of the same situation at a bigger scale that we've got on on something like this road but once we put that road there we can't make it worse if there's something we do to make it better so I I think I think we need to direct clay to let's look at specifically some things that what can we do and still maintain the requirement of getting federal money to keep that road repaired. Because one of the big issues is the bridge. If the road doesn't match these federal standards, we won't be able to get federal grant money to make the bridge. It's an indication of our almost out of control growth. Just an indication of that. And we struggle with it. And some of us live in a place, you can't come out where I live on State Highway in the mornings. People park in the way at a restaurant and you can't see, so you have to wait. You don't know if anybody's coming or not. There's a car, there's a row of cars parked to go in and eat Mexican food. They're stuck, you know. Those are just going on and on and on. We can think of them just everywhere. That's an indication of our growth. And if you don't, I don't, it's not you, hopefully everybody in this room voted in the last election, but basically 10% of the electorate is choosing the people up here making these decisions, 10%. I don't know what we do. But right now, you're not getting a broad enough discussion of these problems before they get to this level. And so we've got a societal change to do here. It's a real issue. Clay, do you see some things you might do as far as design standards to slow it down? Maybe some solar signs that have blinking stuff. Those seem to attract more attention than just the sign, for instance. Stuff like that.

CLAY HENSON JR.: Correct. I'd like to address the project that's been approved and moving forward. The 15 accidents occurred along that road in the last five years, and the majority of those accidents are considered lane departure accidents.

So, correct.

They're not always, it could be departing one lane into the other one, but lane departures. And so what is going to take place with this project is one of the most effective countermeasures to lane departures. And that's the two-foot-wide safety improvement paving, and along with the rumble strips that's going to go.

That's going to happen. Let me stop you there. Is there any control on our end of being able to put those rumble strips about where the white line is. I've noticed some roads that rumble strip is 18 inches away from the white line. You have to run way off before you run across them. On roads that I find those things right on me, 231 is a good example. Some of those are coming through the curves at Gulf Holler. You don't get off very much at all. You get over on the white line and you got that thing running in your ears. So do we have any control over that being closer?

This particular pay item, the rumble strips will be six to eight inches just outside of the white line. The white line's not going to move. It's going to be the exact same spot it is right now. The travel way, 10 foot and six inches both directions, that's not going to widen out at all. The extra paving is simply paved shoulder. It's not paved, widened travel lane. So the travel lane is going to be the same, 10 foot wide, 10 foot, 6 inch wide. The two foot extra pavement is going to be shoulder. It's going to have the rumble strip on it. The rumble strip, I don't know. Maybe the lady, I'm aware of the accent that Mr. Butler's talking about. Maybe she, uh... looked off and was getting something. And if she had hit some rumble strips, she might have looked back up right quick and realized she went off the one side and then correcting, went back the other direction and hit the tree adjacent to Mr. Butler's property. So this is one of the most effective countermeasures for lane departures in this project. But site distance problems, we can look at those issues for projects down the road. Traveling public behavior is, can't control it, definitely not 100%.

OK, there are some things, looks like we can do. How much better it'll make them, I don't know. But signage, not widening out the driving lane makes me feel a little better. If you widen it out and move the white lines over it, they're going to go faster if the road's wider. If it's not widening out, maybe it won't get any worse. And the rumble strip, the closer we can get those rumble strips legally to the white line, I think would be important. You've got standards to go by, I know. But I don't know how they got to put them right there where the white lines are on 231. They may not have had enough width to put them any further out. Do you know what?

There was an out-out project, that's all I can tell you. It was a county project.

The standards for us is how many inches from the white lines.

Well, this particular, the normal way to do it, When you have two foot wide, when you've paved the shoulder two foot wide, the normal standard is the six to eight inches to the outside of the white stripe.

So in your standards, you could say six inches is no more than six is good to us and still meet the standard.

Yeah, six inches is a millisecond in a vehicle.

Yes, sir. With that being said, a millisecond at the speeds they drive? is going to be a plump before you hear a plump. They've hit our gates. I worked EMS for years in this county. That's how I know some of y'all. I've worked many, many wrecks on that road. That was the road I worked. I was the fire chief of Branchville. Then I worked RPS. Simple fact is, they drive way too fast. So that rumble strip, great. It may help some. Not going to say it won't help some. I'm saying it's going to be a bump before the bang. And then you're going to be inviting more people onto the road because now big trucks are going to have more room to go and not have to dodge other trucks except for at the bridge. So you're going to be inviting more of those. You're going to be inviting, and you already have a problem because a lot of those big trucks go to pull out on 174 and they high center, especially if they're running an RGN. I pulled one of those off in recent weeks because he was coming through there trying to dodge an interstate. I was coming through in a big truck and he couldn't raise up his RGN high enough and he got stuck. It happens. How many times have y'all had that road clogged up from that? But you're going to invite more big trucks, more traffic's inherently going to show up. It's going to cause a bigger backup at the end of the road. It's going to cause a bigger backup at the opposite end of the road by the interstate. You have the bottleneck at the bridge that somebody will end up smacking that. A bridge that's already weight restricted, and then you're inviting more 18 wheelers onto that road, which is going to cause another problem because the bridge is weight restricted, which is going to further compromise that bridge. And I think it is a problem that is going to morph into a much bigger problem.

Those are issues we can we can address in the future I will say in this project the The guardrail that is coming the approach guardrail to the bridge is going to be we're going to move it further away from the edge of the road so one of the couple of the end anchors gets hit fairly often and those will be further away from the road so hopefully it won't happen as much near as much in the future okay this we now have it in our filmed meeting and in our minutes about a discussion on the issues on that particular road and i know we've

This is the first in-depth discussion I think we've had about the issues coming up on Kelly Creek Road. We've talked about it. Engineers have known some things were coming. But as far as us really understanding what is on the horizon out there on Kelly Creek Road, it's going to be one of our next major problems to address. So we'll try to keep in mind not just the safety of the traveling public, but the safety of the people who live out there and their quality of life living out there. Yes, sir. Mr. Butler.

Well, thank you for my word that I will do everything I can to prevent D.R. Horton from buying our 300 acres.

There you go. There you go.

I'll do my part to limit the traffic. We can stand there.

There you go. Well, that right there is part of the answer. When you start finding out, wait a minute here, sure is kind of hard to raise these old cows. I think I'll go ahead and sell this to somebody to build houses on it, and I'm going to move to Gulf Shores.

Right now, cows might be worth more than houses. You got a point there.

Yes, sir. Okay. Thank you. Mr. Engineer, are there any more questions from the commissioners to him? Now we've got to move on to subdivision regulations, which I think all this is tied together. Senator Cabell, I'm so glad you're here. You just didn't realize how complicated our job was. I tell you. Well, I do thank you for being here, though, for your interest in these particular issues. You know about the growth here, and you're very responsive, and our state representative over here, for a little while longer, he's going into retirement, but Jim Hill, Representative Hill, and he's Those two gentlemen on the state level know about this issue. They know about 411. They know about Kelly Creek Road. They know about the intersection on the interstate at Love's. And okay, let's make that better over on the interstate where people can get off the interstate because right now in the evenings they back up down the interstate trying to get off. Okay, now we make it better and more people are going to travel Kelly Creek Road. I'm going to retire. Somebody may have retired me, but I'm going to go ahead and retire, I believe. I'll go with Fish. sympathize with the position you're in too we just want to be sure that you keep in your mind those human elements of all of this down i know you do i know you've got a passion for safety and those things so we thank you for your addressing of that now discuss subdivision regulation for st clark county that's his next item is it on one of the items on the regular agenda OK, so that's where we put it. We've had numerous discussions with developers. We've had numerous discussions with landowners. We've had discussions during elections at the forums. Everybody's aware. that St. Clair County is attempting to address a growth issue. And we're trying to do it incrementally. And subdivision regulations is a big step for us. It's not as big a step as zoning and planning. And the commission up here that you've elected is not ready for zoning and planning. But some of the things we're trying to do to help keep these problems from happening are being addressed in some of these regulations. Some of them can be and some of them can't be. And in the middle of that is your right as landowner to sell your property to a big developer. That's fair. So that's where we are on discussing subdivision regulations for St. Clair County. I think the consensus of the commission was to put this on the agenda today. I'm going to move it forward, asking for a motion. And a second on adopting the subdivision regulations as presented. And then we'll open it up to discussion. And if we have enough discussion that we don't think we're ready, then we can table that motion and have a discussion again. But we're ready to put it on the table for us to look at. Is that all? The judge had wanted to discuss some stuff. Before we do it, or you'll? Doesn't matter, Mr. Chairman. I can do it either way.

Either way you want to do it. But I do want to have a moment.

all of y'all have addressed the issue of these private sewer systems I just want to talk to you about we can we can look at that during this discussion and actually tweak today if we choose to under the under the guidance of our County Attorney so the next part is discussion of subdivision regulation what's the pleasure of the mission have a motion to adopt so good as presented by the the committee and the county engineer but what we've seen you'll have a second second properly moved in second now any discussion and that may be considerable but that's what we're here for uh so first thing i'll do is our state representative jim hill has been looking at this and he's uh he's very aware of uh As an attorney and a former judge, he's very aware of the legal issues that are involved in this. And so, Mr. Representative, we appreciate you being here. DAVID BURRAGE.

Appreciate the opportunity. Mr. Chairman, members, let me, you know, I look out here when we come, I see two of my friends, Martin Evans and Lee Barnes, both of them are representative lawyers. But let me tell you this. They're responsible individuals. They're good lawyers. They do a good job. I've worked with them both many, many times over the years. I'm not saying we always totally agree, but we're always able to discuss that which we need to discuss to go forward. But the issues that y'all have brought to me that I want to talk to you about for just a moment is this issue of the private sewer systems. We have them all over the state. There's a pretty good argument that you could make that there's certain Real estate in Alabama and in St. Clair County simply is undevelopable short of that type of a system, because the land simply will not perk. And if it will not perk, then obviously you've got to have a methodology by which you address sewage, right? I mean, that's just one of the deals. You've got to have water. You've got to have sewer, you've got to have electricity. If you've got those three things, you can figure out how to develop. And that's what developers do. Now, I understand that y'all are looking at 15,000 square foot lots. That's fine. That's fine, if the land will perk. Because a 15,000 square foot lot is pretty much what the health department requires you to put a sewer system on. I mean, a septic tank system. So if you've got these individual systems, like septic tanks, and they fail, well, that's the responsibility of the individual that owns the real estate. And it's really not a, it certainly can affect other people, but it's not as prevalent or as likely to affect a large number of people as is the failure of a private sewer system. Because you could have hundreds of homes. hooked on to that system. That system is licensed by ADM. They can't just put them in. They've got to license them by ADM. They're certainly subject to the rules, regulations, and authority of the health department. So you've got some built-in safety things there to help you with. However, here's the thing that you all have discussed with me that I want to talk with you about. What if there's a catastrophic failure of one of these systems? And this system is servicing not one home, as a septic tank would do, but hundreds of homes. Obviously, we would go to the health department. We would go to ADM. We would seek their guidance and their help and remedy in that situation. But if there really is that kind of a failure, unfortunately, what I see people doing is coming to y'all. And they're going to say, OK, County Commission, we got a real problem. We've got raw sewage running down our street. What are you going to do about it? The county, without any question, has a broad discretion to remedy and to address health and safety issues. That's part of what y'all are talking about up here. You're talking about roads. But still, if it wasn't a safety issue, speed wouldn't be a problem if it wasn't a safety issue. The topography of the land and the topography of the roads wouldn't be a problem if it wasn't a safety issue. So that's what y'all are up here talking about, safety issues and that type of thing. First, though, as we get into what could we do, As we craft these subdivision requirements, under no circumstances do I want the county to be put in a position where we are required to do anything to address this. It's really not your problem. You do not license these things. You do not license these plants. You do not oversee them. You do not collect the tap-on, tile-on fees. You do not collect the monthly service charge that they're utilizing to produce this or to clean this sewer. So as we get into this, first, I want our rules and regulations to be very, very clear that if you act, you act on your own volition. You do not act because you are in any way obligated or required or mandated to do so. However, what could you do if you undertake it? Well, I think that the first thing that we would do if we really considered it to be a health issue would be to declare it so a public nuisance or a public health issue in the county would go about abating that. And like I said, initially you would abate that through your health department. That's the way you would seek it initially. However, what if you're unable to do that? And what if you just feel like that you don't have any option but to go about and hire the abatement of that? Then I want us to be in a position at that point in time where we charge the cost of that abatement back to the developer that developed it, the owner operator that is operating that private system, but also back to the individual homeowners. And I've had people say, well, why the homeowners? They didn't do anything. They did not. They did not. But they are the individuals that are getting the benefit of that system. And at the point in time that they bought into that subdivision, they knew it was a Private sewer system, so if it gets to the point where the county must expend public money in remedy in a health Situation that I think that public money that I think that abatement needs to go that cost needs to go back to the D to like I said to the developer to the owner operator and to the homeowners because those are the individuals that are benefiting initially from from That's pretty much what I've got, gentlemen. Y'all have asked me worst case scenario. Personally, I'll be honest with you. I do not envision you ever having to do it. However, I left my crystal ball at home. And I don't have one. But I really, I've seen these systems. And they work. They work. People are utilizing them all over this country. And like I said, there's a pretty good argument that you could make that but for this system, this land is not developable. Then you have to make up your mind whether you want to. There's also, you have within this, within these subdivision regulations, you've got, if you put a 15,000 square foot, if that's what you do, you have a, they have, there's a mechanism by which an individual can ask for variance to shrink that lot size down. Whether you grant it or not, obviously, is discretionary, right? But it is not, it's still, excuse me, it's still there. If you do shrink that lot size down, then you are going to go into some type of a community package type plant because the septic tank is not going to operate for a 6,000 square foot lot as opposed to a 15,000 square foot lot. So you're going to perhaps be faced with that one way or the other. And all I'm saying to you is that I want a mechanism in our plot plans when we are approving these, if we're using these systems, I want it on that plot. I want it clear and noticeable. I want it to be transparent, both in these subdivision regulations and on that plot plan, that if there is a failure, here the county has the right to remedy that failure, and there is a potential for chargeback. Now- If that answers your questions, great. If you've got one, please ask, and I'll do my best to answer. Let us word this, though. Let Kirk and I word this the way we need to. We've been thinking about this for the last few days. And I don't have all the wordage down, but that's the idea. That's the idea. Mr. Chairman, you got any questions for anybody? DAVID BURRAGE. Do the commissioners have any questions about this?

DAVID BURRAGE. We already had talked about it being on state. They're the ones ultimately responsible. But we just said it won't never come to us under any condition if it were a failure.

We hope that is true, Mr. Myers. We really do. But again, if there really is a failure and there are people down here, if we have a health crisis because of this, All I want you to do is be in a position where you can remedy that crisis if it is necessary for you to do so and to seek reimbursement from those individuals either that have caused that crisis or alternatively are benefiting from us remedying them. Does that make sense to you?

Is that kind of language in there now?

Yeah, that's what I was going to ask, Judge.

Those reviews that you're talking about, does that include the latest draft, or is that to be determined? That's what we've been talking about and working on, is getting that language put together. It's not completed.

Today's motion was to adopt them in second, and we're in discussion. Pending county attorney review. Yes. Yes, sir. Yes, please. Obviously. Most of them would need to be sure that's in the minutes. Obviously, we'd want to do that. And the county attorney review will come back then and make the recommendation for this if the commissioners are needing that language in there. Yes, sir. That make sense? So part of the county attorney review would be that. Put the brief back to us. For that review. Yes, sir. That wouldn't require us tabling action on the motion as such. county attorney review whenever that is done would trip the date that the 30 30 days yes require 30 days before they go into effect right so the finalization of the county attorney's review which would be putting that language in if we are okay with that, then that 30 days would start after we take them after a county attorney review. Does that make sense? Yes, sir. Everybody understanding that?

If I could just add one thing, just procedurally, it's my recollection that this issue regarding the adoption of subdivision regulations was tabled um by the commission back in february february 24th meeting i believe um so before any action is taken we need to remove it from the table uh so that'd be commissioner stevens yeah uh the motion was made by i made the motion to table it back in favor right okay and uh

The person that puts it on the table has to be the one to remove it from the table. Am I correct there? Yes, I believe so.

I would refer to Senator Beall. He is the expert in the Alabama legislature on all things procedures, correct?

He's your parliamentarian?

He's my parliamentarian.

There you go. Having having been advised by our parliamentarian from the Senate Then we would be in order for dear discussion for you to remove your As an amendment. I amend that motion to remove. For further discussion today. Do I have a second to that? So moved. Properly moved and seconded. That's not a table motion. It's to remove a table motion so you can discuss it in a discussion. No discussion. All in favor say aye. Aye. Opposed, no. Motion carries. OK. All right. Senator, is that kind of like you ought to have done it?

OK, now we're back to where we were.

Where we are is this. The motion and the second is to adopt the subdivision regulations as presented, pending county attorney review, which will probably come back with some amendments or changes. Correct. Then the final document that's reviewed will come to us as presented. It won't require us to table it. So it's moving forward, but it requires us to not adopt it until you report to us that you're okay with this document if we include this. Everybody good with that?

We're always going to include that. We need to say such.

We're good.

Agreed.

Thanks.

Okay. Now, all right, that's where we are. Any other discussion? Do you have any more discussion on your part? Do we have anybody from the audience? I know there's some developers here and all that. Does anybody here want to record some discussion over in a minute about this process?

I would. I don't know if I need to go first or if anybody else would like to go before me.

We try to restrict people's time so you don't have 30 minutes.

Thank you guys for having given us a moment to touch base on this and talk. As I mentioned the last time, I am not very good at this. I'm not good at public speaking. I'm also a landowner. I'm also on farm animals. I understand the conversation and the talking points today. I do have some notes. I will try to keep it simple here. Pardon me while I read from this. The last time we spoke, there was... There was decent notice given on the work session and we asked a handful of people to come and hang out and if they felt the same way that we felt about regulations and maybe as Americans we just don't need additional regulations put in on top of us. to come and speak for a minute. And so when we did, the room was packed, right? It was standing room only. And I think you guys even mentioned that we'd never seen anything like that before. And you just didn't know that it was going to be that impactful.

On that subject, now we've seen it about potholes.

You've seen it about potholes. I mean, hey, potholes are, right? They get us all. Now, today I'll ask the same thing. Just show of hands, if you guys are kind of with us today in that mentality that this kind of subdivision regulation is going to impact your livelihood, is going to impact your business, would you all just please, with a show of hands, throw those up for just a minute, okay?

Let me ask this question. Any of you guys sitting here, just raise your hands, live in St. Clair County.

How many of you do business in St. Clair County and pay taxes in St. Clair County and have a business license? So I think those are all notable distinctions on that. So here's the deal. It was packed with the people that we talked about here whose families and livelihoods would be gravely impacted if you voted yes on the matter today. The ordinance passes, in particular, the topic of the large mandate, lot mandates that you're asking for. It will generate the exact opposite, the exact opposite of what you think is going to happen. And let me explain that for a minute. First, any landowner, cattlemen, I wrote this down before I had a chance to meet you today, All right? Any kind of a farmer, any way, shape, or form. Whatever you think your land is worth today, this will cut your land in half, maybe more. It will absolutely positively decimate it, even if you don't want to sell it to Mr. Horton, which is fine by us because we're not associated with him in any way, shape, or form. All right? Absolutely fine by us. But if you have any plans for doing that, Your property is going to be valued much less than what you think it is. And let me explain that a little bit differently. All right. A land development budget is based on the number of homes that can be built on a piece of property. If you drastically reduce the number of allowed homes, you drastically reduce the price that can be paid for that landowner. or to that landowner. I would liken it, and I know this happens with my horses, I can only put so many horses on my piece of property. I don't know if that goes for cattle, right? I don't know that. But if there was an ordinance that came out and said that you could have half as many cattle as you do today, you'd have a problem with it, especially if you own that land. Same concept, okay? All right. So anyhow, point being, if you drastically reduce the number of allowed homes, you drastically reduce the value that can be paid to that landowner. A vote for this ordinance is a vote to devalue land today across the county. Second, the extra regulations in this proposed ordinance will heavily increase the development expense per lot, spending infrastructure over a few lots equals higher, excuse me, spreading infrastructure over fewer lots equals higher development costs per lot. Here's how and why that matters. If adult development costs per lot increases, but the mortgage amount a home buyer can qualify for remains unchanged, the home buyer's only option is to purchase a smaller home. You're not going to change what their purchase power is by doing this. Let me use our own communities for an example. We tend to push home values and prices upward. We build homes much larger than most of our competitors, climbing upwards of 5,000 square feet. We're building homes 5,000 square feet with three car garages. We're pressing that price point up over half a million dollars. You'd think that if we're that kind of builder versus the other company that was named here today that we would actually support this because we build big houses. The kind of stuff that you guys seem to want to have in the county. But we don't because if this passes, we fear that too few buyers will be able to handle the 50 to $75,000 increase and that's a real number. It's a real number and a real metric, and I cannot wait to sit at a table and show it to you. And you can hold me on the carpet for you, but I'll show you. Same house, $50,000 to $75,000 more for working families who are trying to have the American dream, OK? So in order to make the subdivision work, we have to replace the 5,000 square foot house with a 4,000 square foot home, because that's all the customer can afford. Their income levels don't change. Their qualifications don't change. Just the size of the home, because the lot size is so large, And guys, they're enormously large in this document. They are 100% larger than other counties who adopted anything similar. 100% larger. It's detrimental, okay? So we're going to have to replace the 5,000 square foot house with a 4,000 square foot house, the 4,000 square foot house with a 3,000 square foot house, and so on. So instead of getting the 5,000 square foot house, the county is going to have 3,000 square foot or 2,000 square foot houses. Because median incomes are what median incomes are. It's important. If your goal as a commissioner is to protect land values, see high value homes built in this county. You should absolutely vote no on this ordinance. All right, let's look at the broader picture. Land development and home building regulations are already among the highest of all industries. We have more regulations on us than we could possibly imagine. We just heard a moment ago about the different groups that regulate the private sewer systems. We left a big one out, the Public Service Commission. All right, just recently at the state level, it became a huge talking point. And the Public Service Commission stepped in and said, hey, we're going to make certain that the operators are licensed, and they're approved, and they're in good financial status. And they're also involved in that tier of governance. It's already there. If you'll kindly take a bit more time, to discuss this and this is me personally saying this. I'll sit at a table with you and go through that ordinance with each of you and I'll show you how you guys don't need to have any of that burden placed on you because there's already a government regulation at the state level and probably the federal level. that is stepping in where you guys are trying to write something out of concern. But there's another group at the state or the federal level who's already there to do exactly that. And I will personally sit with you at a table about that. It'll save your county, your citizens tens of thousands of dollars. And it's free. I won't charge you a dime for it. Just hear me out. If you don't take me up on that, that's not great public policy. Give me the chance to sit there and do that. And none of you, I haven't had the chance to sit with you. We've had attorneys from associations sit down and have conversations. But this is me personally saying, I'll save your citizens tens of thousands of dollars, headaches, that you don't need this regulation. You don't need it. And I'll explain to you every spot where we can use a state or federal legislator to step in y'all's place. All right. The other thing that maybe you didn't understand and how important it is and what a big issue it is, is you know the guys that raise their hands there's a handful of them that work for our business all right and it's my understanding that you know we've made substantial investments in the county we have substantial land ownings and it's my understanding that those documents contemplate that those those would be quote grandfathered in is that fair that those are grandfathered in subdivisions that have already begun, have approvals from you guys?

Is that fair? Yes, we got two that I know of. Lechmont and then the gentleman on Robert Millpond Road. Mill Creek. Mill Creek. OK. All right.

Again, you would think that if we're part of those projects, that we would have a competitive advantage and it would be a good idea for me to just sit in the chair and let this go through, especially given the size of what those projects are. They're good, solid projects, but this is too important. It's so important that part of the reason why that room was packed and part of the reason why we have representatives here today is that there were 13 significant associations represented in that room. I'm going to read to you that list. The Alabama Forestry Association, the Alabama Association of Realtors, the Associated Builders and Contractors of Alabama, the Associated General Contractors of Alabama, the Birmingham Association of Realtors, the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers, the United Association of Local Plumbers, Sheet Metal Workers, the International Association of Sheet Metal Workers, the Subcontractors Association of Alabama, the St. Clair Association of Realtors, the Alabama chapter of the American Institute of Architects, the Alabama Society of Professional Engineers, the Home Builders Association of Alabama, the National Association of Home Builders, and the HBAA, which is the Land Developers Council here. Each one of those associations are paying attention to the conversation that we're having. They pay attention at the state level. They pay attention in local levels, at city levels. They're paying attention, all right? And part of the reason was because in the last meeting that I had a chance to get up and hang out with you guys, it was tabled. And then it was followed up with the question for how long will it be tabled? And the response was, indefinitely. Now, I get that there's going to be more conversations. And our ask is that we have more conversations. And my ask is that when we sit here and tell you that we can save you guys tens of thousands of dollars, and not passing legislation with over burden responsibility on the county that is not required, is not needed, is not necessary. I'm just going to ask that you take those two things together. First, it was tabled. Second, it was tabled indefinitely. And third, I've got some good strong public policy that can sit right down in front of you guys and work this thing out. It's not ready to be voted on today. It's not ready for that approval. And if you guys would agree with me, just show your hands, please. I appreciate y'all letting me get up here and talk. Truly. Thank you.

DAVID BURRAGE. Any questions or comments from commissioners? Good to see you again.

Nice to see y'all too, commissioners. Judge Hill, very kind words. I appreciate it. It's an honor to be here with y'all today. My name is Martin Evans, and I'm a Religious Lawyer from Birmingham. I've talked with y'all at numerous work sessions and probably wore out my welcome, so I know you got a big crowd. I'm gonna be real quick. So I kind of wear two hats. So as a land use lawyer, I have clients that are developers and home builders that I represent. And my law practice brings me up here a lot. I was actually in Judge Wellington's court this morning. But I also am the general counsel for the Greater Birmingham Home Builders Association. And so I am involved a lot with zoning issues throughout the greater Birmingham area, subdivision issues and things like that. And I want to make sure that y'all understand that I'm not against subdivision regulations. My individual clients that I represent are not against subdivision regulations. The Greater Birmingham Home Builder Association and the St. Clair County Home Builder Association, I don't believe as a whole they are against subdivision regulations. From a personal standpoint, I think subdivision regulations are a good thing. I think they help make sure that development occurs in sound ways. But also, you've got to be careful not to over-regulate. That's what this gentleman touched on. I mean, over-regulation is worse than regulation itself. very much appreciate all the county's efforts that they've put into this up to this point. I know that this is a 60, 70 page document. There's a lot of fine print in it and the devil is really in the details and why this is so tough and why there's such a struggle is you've got two very, very important rights. Government no question has the authority to regulate pursuant to its police powers and to adopt subdivision regulations. But you also, when you regulate, you've got a convergence of another very, very valuable property right that's protected by the Fifth Amendment of the United States Constitution that's incorporated through the 14th Amendment. And so when you've got these two converging issues, it's very sensitive. And there's a really, really fine line of where how regulation, how far it should go. And so from the individual client, the developers that I represent, I greatly appreciate the county's efforts in adding a savings clause. I mean, that allowed my individual clients that are involved in the Mill Creek to get some sleep at night, finally. And so I very much appreciate that. One of the issues, though, that we've realized is that the savings provision only allows the lot sizes that were originally planned to be grandfathered in, and specifically only lot sizes. There was an exclusion that said all the other regulations would apply, all the new regulations would apply. Well that creates a problem if you've got a smaller lot, but you've got these new setback requirements, right? And so if you have a small lot, but you still have to comply with these new larger setback requirements, you may not be able to build a house on it. And so, and then that would lead to just a, you know, coming up here for variances. So I think one smart thing to do would be to make sure we tweak the grandfather and savings provision to also allow for the setbacks to be grandfathered in as well. And the other thing that I want to speak about really from the development community as a whole is the 15,000 square foot minimum. As this gentleman mentioned, that is going to drive up the cost of housing. It truly is. There's no argument about that. And it's okay to have some areas with larger lots. I mean, that's sound planning. And Mr. Chairman, I appreciate, you're very good with your words. And you have a good grasp on subdivision regulations and how that plays into zoning and how it plays into planning. And I agree that the county is probably not a popular thing to rezone property. I know that there's been a lot of people that are against rezoning. But the planning piece of it, I think we can plan without having zoning. I think in order to adopt subdivision regulations, you necessarily have to do some planning. And that's one of the big things is that I would encourage you not to adopt any subdivision regulations or any regulations at all that just across the board say you can't have anything smaller than a 15,000 square foot lot. I think that's using a meat cleaver to control development when you really need to be using a scaffold. There are necessarily gonna be some areas where you're going to want to have smaller lots. You're going to want to have larger density. I mean, in your city, like in your commercial hubs and things like that, all these sidewalks and stuff that you're talking about, well, you'll have to walk, you know, 20 miles if the development is so, you know, if the lots are so large. And so all this plays into a part. It's like a little ecosystem, okay? And you hear the, you've seen on the movies where you take out one species, it has an unintended consequence of, upsetting the entire ecosystem. And so that's where if, I mean, I know we heard earlier that the Regional Planning Commission has weighed in on roads and things like that. I mean, has the Regional Planning Commission given any input whatsoever to the county's desire to limit development to 15,000 square feet? I mean, or is that just an arbitrary number that we came up with? I mean has the Regional Planning Commission actually looked at this and said yeah if you impose that regulation that's going to stifle development by this much and how is that going to have an effect on growing businesses? How is that going to have an effect on you know existing businesses? And so That's the type of planning and investigation that you've got to do before you just take a meat cleaver and say 15,000 square foot minimum. So that's what I would encourage you to do if it hasn't been done already before voting on the subdivision regulations. I'll shut up. Thank you, Mr. President.

Do any of the commissioners have any questions?

Hey, boy, you want to talk. Come on. Yes, thank you. Good morning, folks.

Mr. Barnes, good to have you with us here today. Yeah, can I take a minute? It's a personal privilege before I speak on this topic, if you don't mind. My name's Lee Barnes, and I live in St. Clair County. I live on Kelly Creek Road. I own commercial property on Kelly Creek Road. You know, I understand what everybody's saying here. I understand both sides of that argument, so I appreciate that. But on my personal privilege, I wanted to Thank you all for serving this commission. And I had some special thanks I want to say to some of you. One is Chairman Bateman. I was thinking about this while sitting in the back and recall back. He's been chairman and been a member and chairman And the thing about Chairman Bateman is he's a scrapper. And my dad and he served on a commission where they just fight it out and cuss each other. I mean, got into it. They said it's going to whip somebody's ass. I mean, get into it. But he's a scrapper. And I appreciate him scrapping for our county. And I've been to so many meetings all over that next thing you know, there's Chairman Bateman. So I mean, you know, I was like, well, how'd he get here, you know? And then also, you know, Commissioner Parker. I mean, I've known him since I was a kid, and he probably, let's say, I'm not telling, he's not telling anything bad on me today. Luckily the statute's run on all that. And we got Joey and Mr. Mines. Joey's a fantastic lawyer, and Mr. Mines is here representing his people. And also I'd like to say something about Judge Hill. I mean, Judge, if it hadn't been for him, I never got to go work for Bill Wellington. Because he told Bill to call me, and I thought, man, that's the best thing that probably ever happened to me in my law career, without question. And then Jeff Brownfoot, he's been on here when I represented the commission, so that I'll tell you. But y'all are fantastic people, and I appreciate what you do. And I do really go back to I really appreciate Chairman Bateman being a scrapper for our county and trying to help us. Because if you look at things that have been accomplished during y'all's time and his time, back when I was a kid, my dad would drive me. This is in 1976. We go up to the Moody Crossroads and cross the road. And it was not uncommon. So you come a long way in 50 years. So now what you do is plan on the next 50 years. As far as the subdivision rates go, I mean, I can argue both sides of that and tell you this is this, this is that. But really what I'm here is concerning myself, is that I have given your county engineer and county lawyer where I filed my plot plan yesterday with y'all. And the only thing that does matter as to what Martin said is the setbacks will limit whether you can do anything with it or not. That's a real problem. And I would ask that you say that we're going to go with the setbacks we had before. or at least put that language, somehow enabling language in your stuff. And the other thing is, I had a group, I didn't go this time, but got back recently from Washington. And now to build a home, there's $125,000 of regulation of some kind that it costs. That's before from buying land to building the house. So just say you start, your start price is $125,000. So exactly what these people are saying is there's a point where you've priced out of the market at some point in time. But I would ask if you do, I know that you do have a variance provision. I would ask that if you do pass this today, please be open to thought in the future. If people bring you good plans, they're going to be good for the community and good for y'all. Please think about that. And also on the representing the private sewer, I have represented private sewer provider from the start. And the thing is, is that thank you to the PSC for taking over the regulation of that because I've seen good and bad. But what Judge Hill has told you, you couldn't ask for better counsel than that. And Kurt's helped him too. Thank y'all.

Thank you so much for your input. You're always good to give us some information. And over the years, you and your father have been good counsel for me, that's for sure. And I enjoyed it. We didn't call them fighting or arguments. We called them the spirit of debate. Your dad and I would get into different things on land use, development of Bass Pro. Well, that was one of my favorites. We had the best time. The lawyers and other people in the room were probably struggling, but me and your dad were having a good time. I can say that. Let me mention something here to make sure that our attorneys point this out to be sure that the comments that you had were having to do with us passing this ordinance. I'm not sure this is an ordinance. The county commission's And Alabama, along with 27 other states, do not have any authority to pass an ordinance unless the state legislators give them that directive to pass an ordinance or that authority to pass an ordinance. So we can't pass an ordinance. Hence, we can pass subdivision regulations. So there's a little difference here than a city ordinance. Does it take on the same nature as a city ordinance? It takes a lot more maneuvering in a city council to change an ordinance than it does for us to change our regulations. We just come back in here and say, okay, we're going to vote on this again. Now three to two says this, and that's changed. But the city's changing, and our ordinance takes on a little bit bigger plan. So that's one of the issues. And I was on the board of directors of the National Association of Counties for seven years. And I deliberately got on a committee that some of you would have just dodged. But because of being a friend, it was a committee of 58 people, a big committee. And here's the name of the committee. What could go wrong? Environment and land use. What could go wrong? What could we find to talk about? About energy, oil, fracking. Environment, oil, fracking, whatever. Land use, subdivision regulations. I mean, we were all over the place with this. But I did have one analogy that came up in yours. You're exactly right, and we're very aware of this. I'm a retired game warden. I'm a biologist. My first degree in college was a biology degree. And a lot of planning for wildlife development and that sort of thing came from our department. And we used a term called carrying capacity. I don't care how much work you put on a piece of property as a hunting club, you'll reach the carrying capacity. of that property. You can artificially embellish that carrying capacity a little bit, but next thing you know you've got disease because you've got them too crowded. That's exactly what we've got here is the carrying capacity of the land based on the the desires of the majority of the people. And we have to guess what that is. What are the desires of 50,000 plus one? We're roughly 100,000 people here. What are the desires of the majority of people? We have to go out here and try to figure that out. And it's a very elusive thing. But the carrying capacity of St. Clair County, in my opinion, is fast approaching beyond its ability to take care of the way we're moving. An example is the over-traffic use of Kennedy Creek Road. In Alabama, it's always part of this discussion, and I'm sorry if I'm boring y'all, but hey, hey, I'm going out of office in November. I can talk to y'all, tell me to shut up. In Alabama, a rule of thumb is, and Mr. Butler knows this, you can raise a cow per acre. A lot of farms, you can raise a cow per acre. You got 40 acres, you can raise 40 head. In Colorado, you can raise a cow for 40 acres. Why? Carrying capacity's different. And that's kind of what we've got here. Every county's different. Our carrying capacity is different in each county for the population. We don't have the grasslands. We don't have, we have terrain restrictions. We have soil type restrictions, what will perk and what won't perk. So every county has to be customized. And that's a tough job for five of us that come from totally different backgrounds. But that's what we're into right here. And I love it. I just like it. Yeah, it's stressful sometimes, and yeah, you take it home. And y'all's job is to develop. That's what you do. But part of the time, we're going to bump heads, and that's where we are right now. I dare say that if some people living on Sandy Road were asked the question, y'all need some more subdivisions, somebody with a Michigan accent is going to say, hell no. Where did you come from? You came from Michigan. And I've got a little piece of property at Bon Secours, Alabama, down there in the middle of the woods, backed up to a swamp. But that area in Baldwin County, every commission meeting, there's his own line like ours. Every commission meeting, you have people with northern accents saying why we don't need any more people in Baldwin County. We call that, I've got mine. I don't want y'all here. That's what y'all run into sometimes. And we're trying to balance that. We want our county to grow. But some people tell you today, we don't want another Dollar General. We don't want another Walmart. We don't want a Parisians. We don't want a Sachs. I think all those have gone out of business. We don't want another one of these. We definitely don't want a data center, Dewey Center. We don't want a data center in St. Clair County at all. Then in the midst of all that, though, you've got Revenue Commissioner Crowe back there who measures y'all's property and his organization under a bunch of rules set out by the state how to measure your property and its value. He has to tell somebody with 800 people, yeah, it's big enough for a data center, but it comes to us and we're going to say we don't want no data center. So we've got to figure out a way to not have any of those because Y'all citizens don't want them. And that's the same thing. Some of the citizens don't want another 20-home subdivision. I live in a 23-home subdivision. Some of the citizens don't want another house down the road. Somewhere in there is a happy median. That's what we're trying to find here, and it's going to be difficult. I think we've got a good start on subdivision regulations without having zoning and planning and you're exactly right what what did the Regional Planning Commission of Greater Birmingham by the way that is such a negative thing some people say that's that bunch from Birmingham no we belong to the region of the Birmingham Regional Planning Commission along with seven counties and their main job under federal guidelines is to give us planning advice in each individual county But they don't come in and impose it on us. We have to ask for it. So far we haven't asked them to do any help with planning in our county. That may be good and it may be bad. One of the reasons we hadn't is we know now instead of y'all being here, there'd be a whole bunch of people in here saying, why do y'all got that bunch of people from Birmingham in here telling us what we can do? So we're trying to handle that locally. The Regional Planning Commission is another tool that we use occasionally. We use it for the development of our water and sewer systems and our road structure especially. We so far had stepped out and said we ought to help us with our land use. We'd rather try to handle it here and try to... Nixon mainly in the community to know what the most of you want. That's getting out of our hand. 100,000 people now. It's getting out of our capability. The five of us. There's no way one commissioner can come up here and say, this is what the citizens want. You don't know what the citizens want. There's 100,000 of them. You just don't know. You especially don't know based on the election. Only 10% of them went to the polls. How do you know that? 10% of them went to the polls and 50% plus one won. So... You don't know what the people want when you say, I'm doing what the people want. And the bigger we get, the harder that is to chase down. So I said all that to say we are aware of the difference Issues on both sides, on all sides of this. We're very aware of it. We talk about it amongst us. It's hard for us to go out and have lunch without talking about these things, because that's what we do. And you know what? That's what y'all want us to do. As soon as we get unelected and somebody else is here, that's what you want them to do. But I'm not going to get in on that discussion here in a few months. These guys do. But right now, that's what we do, and we're serious about it. And I don't think there's a commissioner up here that has a nefarious reason for having 15,000 square feet. That's based on his interaction with things like, golly, if we say 6,000 square feet on Kelly Creek Road. We can't handle what's there now. We can't raise a cow per acre. We barely can raise one for every 40. So that's kind of where we are. And we're struggling with that. And the urbanization of this county will continue to be a problem until we're overwhelmed with that urbanization. And those of you who can't stand it anymore, be like me. And you'll go down to Bon Secours and find the two acres that backs up to a swamp. Or they are out in your subdivision as long as the gate closes. That's kind of where some of us are. So that's where we are on the subdivision regulations. I think as I understand the discussion and the motion, first of all, is there any other discussion from the commissioners? Any more comments from out here? And I apologize. We haven't done a good enough job for thinking out in front of us, and we know that. It hits us every once in a while. We didn't think out front of us far enough to discuss this issue for today, before the last week or so. I apologize for that. We stumbled around here with this fast growth. That is what an issue. We hadn't even thought about Kelly Creek Road for about the last six months. We've been weirded by a sign he rode in 411. Well... Now we're thinking about Kelly Creek Road, and pretty soon we'll be thinking about Wolf Creek Road South, because it's going to intersect with Highway 119. That's just the way it is. in the fast-growing county of which we are. We're proud that we're fast-growing, but we would like for that growth to be slower to allow us to slow down and pick up problems like this, for instance. It's something we would like to have the ability to do without hurting people, without punishing the developers and the landowners. So, any other discussion from the commissioners? All right. Right now, as I understand the motion, I'll repeat the motion. As I understand the motion, the motion is the vote was to approve subdivision regulations as presented, as discussed, But the second was that with an amendment that takes it off the table and puts it back on for discussion. So I offered an amendment to that. That was your motion to begin with. So we have a motion and a second now as amended to take it off the table, put it back on the table for discussion. Now we have a motion and a second in front of us to adopt subdivision regulations as presented by the county engineer and those entities, the committee that submitted it. Y'all have seen the whole thing, the draft document. pending huge pending the review of the county attorney because i understand it already before we even leave this room today the county attorney is going to come back to us and suggest some tweaks to it before he puts his stamp up approval so you heard that tweak today and that'll help so that's is that where we are as y'all understand all right you get that miss clerk yes sir all right yes sir

Going back to those tweaks, there was conversation about setback scenarios, and there's conversation about subdivisions that would be grandfathered in, so to speak. How will we know how that turns out?

I think that's something the county attorneys are looking at. What does that really mean? The grandfather in right now is somebody that has some unknown investment already. One of the obvious things is, have you built a sewer plan on the property already? Or have you already put in a bunch of roads? If you already put in roads, you could do 15,000 square foot per lot. The roads are too close together. There's other things in there. But I think those are things that are going to have to be looked at. I think when he comes back, I think he'll have something like that to talk about, plus making sure that we feel good about those sewer plant situations being protected by other entities.

Does it not feel to the commission that those talking points would warrant a tabling and for a discussion to go through given the?

We discussed at the work session last Thursday, if any of you feel uncomfortable of where we're going, then a motion to table and a second and a passing would be in order if you want to at any given time. So far, I haven't heard a motion to table, nor a second. No discussion on it. We'll see where it passes or not.

The motions are remaining second to both of them.

Yeah, but you can table that motion at any given time if you choose to. And if we're not ready, we don't want to table it until we see what he's got. Now, if he comes back, pending review of the county attorney, he comes back with a review, this is still a live motion that can be tabled. It can be tabled at the next meeting if whatever he brings back we're not ready to address. So this is live. Y'all know I've tried to slow this process down. I've been beat up by some entities because of it. That's OK. Y'all have given me an opportunity to play with y'all's money now for several times. So that's OK. As long as we are discussing this situation until we're through discussing it as much as possible. We've finally just run out of words. If this were a... God, Lee, y'all going to... Never mind, I am. Yes, I am, too. If this was a whole commission of a bunch of women, we'd have a whole lot more words left. But we're about out of words. There's a bunch of men up here. We're about through with our words. We've used them all up. So that's kind of where we are. My preacher talked about that in a minute. But we do have another step that is pending review of the county attorney. I look for it to have some things for us to agree or not agree, continue to discuss. If we're not ready to approve his, he may say, okay, these are mine, but I'm going to go back and tweak, so I'm not giving my approval yet. So we could go through another couple of meetings. And then when he says, this is what I approve, I think everything's on track, then our motion will have passed. Subdivision regulation will go into effect 30 days later. Have to maintain 30 days, is that right? Yes, 30 days.

Okay, so that's where we are. So, but nonetheless, I mean, this is a far from perfect document. I think everybody probably sitting here realizes that. I think that we've tried to, for lack of a better term, I think we've tried to merge everybody's thoughts and concerns into this document that you have before you. And I do think that eventually we'll be back to adjust things. I just can't, I just foresee that happening. But unfortunately the consensus I think up here is that we're going to go forward today. But I do, I do have some reservations about how I wish there was some more flexibility built in for sure.

But I think that's the consensus. Okay. We'll move on then. Y'all heard the motion. All in favor say aye. Aye. All opposed no. Motion carries. So that's where we are. Everybody understand that. Feel free to come to our work session. Feel free to come to the other. I know this takes up a lot of your time, but I also know it's very important to you when you're here.

You know, I know that.

You wouldn't be here if it wasn't very important to you to do something about the proliferation of dangerous traffic on Kelly Creek Road. By the way, did you know my daddy planted Taylor's Chapel church? Mr. Taylor lived down the road there years ago in an old lap straight house before you were born. I was 12 years old and we lived in Fultondale and a group of citizens down there got together with Mr. Taylor and he donated some property down the road where the church is that he owned at the time. There were some singletons who lived on the road. I remember that. I know Mr. Roper over on Roper Hill, he was involved in trying to get a church out there. Because back in those days, it was a dirt road. And back in those days, my daddy would say, that place is just full of a bunch of drunks and car thieves. They need a preacher in our church. And that's the kind of place he liked to plant a church. So daddy was the first pastor of Taylor's Missionary Baptist Church down there on Kelly Creek Road. And as the old saying goes, I ain't even from here. How long ago was that? I was 12 years old, so I'm not going to say that. Like you weren't around. Yeah, it was a long time ago. You weren't around.

It was a long time ago. That was 70 years ago. At least 70 years ago.

At least 70 years. But a lot of people don't realize that. I've always been proud. When I would drive by there and say, my daddy planted that church. Don't have any car keys down here as it used to. They can't afford to live there. Feel free to be here. We won't take a long time to go through the rest of this, so feel free to be here during the rest of this meeting if you choose to, just to see what we do. And we're going to move on forward now with our agenda. Clay Phillips, once again, we thank you as the county engineer for giving us such a simple process and project to vote on.

You made it easy for us.

Now, Tina Morgan, county administrator's report.

Chairman, I don't have a report unless y'all have any questions.

Okay. Any questions for Tina?

County Attorney, Kirk Walker's report.

Still working on the subdivision regulations. Continue to work on that. Get that language submitted. Yes, sir.

Thank you. Thank you for your comments, too. Mr. Butler, thank you for being here. Thank you.

Unless y'all have some questions.

Any questions for the commissioners? He's got his marching orders on the subdivision regulations, and that's going to take up a lot of his time, I'm sure, along with the everyday things that he has to do. You haven't heard any response on the sewer?

No.

Okay, next report. Stand by, my chairman. I have a lengthy report here. Let me go back. Oh, I'm sorry.

I'm out of words.

Just to be honest with you, I'm out of words. That's never happened. Moving on. Commissioner Jeff Brown.

Ah, nothing. All right.

Commissioner Ricky Parker? I ain't got nothing. All right. Commissioner Joey Stevens? I think we've heard it all. All right.

Commissioner Bob Mize?

Yeah.

Well, I know how to wear y'all out.

Just keep talking. All right. Old business, none. New business, we've addressed number one and number two. Moving on to number three. Serving the DSP contract county employees vision insurance. See below the premium. Have a motion to approve that. Motion. Motion and a second. Properly moved and second. Discussion. Web discussion. Current rate, $7.33. And a renewal rate, $7.55 for an individual. Family rate, $8.12. Renewal, I mean $18.12. And that's $18.66 for a renewal. Now, in the web discussion, can I go get my highest check still? I believe you can. I can do that? Yes. I can't see where the darn. You got these stigmatisms, whatever they are. All right, I'm going to go check that out and see if it works. I'll let y'all know next meeting with my insurance working on it.

Well, you got a motion to second. All in favor say aye. Aye.

All opposed no. Motion carries.

All right.

Item number four, consider request revenue employee Abigail Brasher for approval of a declaration of emergency sick leave. Do I have a motion? Motion. Second. Properly moved and seconded. Any discussion? All in favor say aye. Aye. All opposed, no. Motion carries. Item five, consider request public transportation director Jackie Smith to surplus a couple of vehicles and sell on good deals, a Ford cutaway bus and a Dodge Caravan. Motion. Have a motion, have a second. Second. Properly moved and seconded. Any discussion? All in favor say aye. Aye. Let me look right here. She sent me something.

Mm-hmm.

I want to be sure I didn't leave something that was on there.

I see here.

She just sent a budget request, new information over that she submitted in April for today's budget thing. So she copied it to Tina and Michelle. So they've got that. So that's for her budget discussion later. All right. Not skipping anybody there. So I have a motion and a second. All in favor, say aye. Aye. All opposed, no. Motion carries. Item six. So request GIS manager Brian Price to approve an MOU for flow forward initiative for sharing water system infrastructure data pending review by the county attorney as discussed in work says to have a motion. Motion. Second. Second. Proper move to second any discussion. All in favor say aye. Aye. All opposed no. Motion carries. Item seven. Consider rescinding the in digital proposal and budget amendment in the amount of $12,901.87 for integrating central dispatch into the new phone system. This will be paid out of 9-1-1 funds. It was going to be paid out of the general fund before. So that's what this motion will do. Have a motion? Second? DAVID BURRAGE. Second. DAVID BURRAGE. All in favor say aye. No. Motion carries. Item eight. Consider recommendation Sheriff Murray to award bid number 2026-37 for the 3D laser scanning system. Have a motion. Motion. Second? Second. Properly moved. Second. Any discussion? No motion carries. Item 9, consider letting bid for a generator for the Charles Foreman Death Investigation Building. Motion to let the bid. Motion.

Motion and a second. Any discussion? Yes, that's just going to create a number for us to discuss. Okay. Possibly.

That's just to allow us to let a bid. That's not approving a bid. Right. Any other discussion? All in favor say aye. Aye. All opposed no. Motion carries. Item 10. Consider letting bid for generator for the operations building central dispatch. That's the same situation. Let bid for that generator. And have a motion. So moved. Second. Promptly moved and seconded. Any discussion? All in favor say aye. Aye. All opposed no. Motion carries.

I may want to mention on that. I did reach out to Aspire.

Yeah.

They weren't aware of that 150 kW, so they're going to have to readjust their bed. Their quote, I mean. But if we can do the road repair, it's going to be much less behind 9-1-1 building.

Sheriff's office. Okay.

Okay. All right. Item 11, consider Quest Revenue Commissioner Ken Crow for approval of the FY25... Insolvence errors and taxes in litigation for previous years. I have a motion. So moved. Second? Second. Properly moved and second to approve the insolvence errors and taxes in litigation for last year. All in favor say aye. Aye. All opposed no. Motion carries. Item 12. Consider travel request. Got a copy of the travel request in your files. I'd like to mention once again I'm i'm trying to make sure that we understand we are the 9-1-1 board it's not just me i'm trying to be sure that staff understands they understand but do we really understand we are a separate board when we see it as a 9-1-1 board so feel free to to do these conferences and get familiar with what's going on in the 9-1-1 world uh there's some changes that's that that's coming down the pack a little bit but you don't know what kind of changes there will be in the next four years because we're gonna have a new governor and a new approach to that sort of thing with a with a big state entity a state agency the state 921 board so we'll uh we'll keep up with that so feel feel free to understand that 911's budget by the way is totally separate than the budget we're going to be discussing today when 911 needs equipment people Vehicles, whatever, that's a 911 issue, not a general fund issue. I understand that. All right. Any tribal request discussions at this time? Do we have a motion and a second? No, we don't. Have a motion? So moved. Second? Second. Probably move to second. Any discussion? All in favor say aye. Aye. 13 considered board appointments. We have any board appointments?

Yes, we got one. Okay. Jeff is stepping down from the Coos Valley water and I'm going to suggest we put three in different places.

Well, Commissioner Brown is turning over Coos Valley water at this very critical time.

And it is a lot going on that he does need to be caught up on.

He does. Yeah. I'll make a move. We put him

You've heard the request that Commissioner Brown is resigning from that board, and the recommendation is that we appoint Commissioner Parker. Have a motion? Motion. Second? Second. I'll be moving in second. Any discussion? I just hope, will you do better than the last guy? I abstain. All in favor say aye. Aye.

Opposed? No. Motion.

That last guy did pretty good.

He did.

We got a lot of water still out there to try to sell. Couldn't get rid of it. The one thing that last guy did, he got a million dollars. What'd you get? What have you done for us lately? That means you get to go to Washington.

Maybe he can pull off something for us pretty quick. There you go.

Out of 14? I'm going to sell it. There you go. Whoa, I think we've got two votes right there.

I'll make that motion.

Consider payment of the regular bills. You've got a copy of the regular bills in your file. So let's see. How much did we pay out this last month? Too much.

That's just a week's worth. Two weeks. That's it.

Dang, it's so complicated we can't even find the last page.

$700,717.27 on the grand total for 98 vendors. There you go.

All right, that was a pretty easy month. Pretty easy two weeks there, so that's good. All right, have them most pay the bills? So may. Second. Proper move and second. Understand that any commissioner can stop payment of any bill any time they choose to. All those in favor say aye. Aye. All opposed, no. Motion carries. Motion to adjourn. So moved. Motion. Second. Motion and a second to adjourn. And we now stand to adjourn. Thank you all so much. I think we did extra work today.

Very important work. We got it all fair. We're having a budget meeting. I'll see you next time. We got to take breaks. Good to see you. Good to see you, sir.

Everything going good? Hanging in there.

Good to see you all. Brother Lee, as always. Thank you. See you. Sister, come see us on Thursday. You come on Tuesday. Come join us. Thank you. If I didn't care, I wouldn't come see you. So you sit sister on third and then you come on second. If I get my dad out of the grave, I'd say he couldn't get into the church. We had some good debates.