Planning and Zoning Meeting - Regular Meeting

All right, my phone's got 7 o'clock, so we're going to go ahead and start the September 4th, 2025 meeting of the St. Charles County Board of Zoning Adjustment is hereby called to order. Please rise for the pledge of allegiance. I don't know if we can get up or not. Where are we? I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Thank you everyone. Welcome to the meeting of the St. Charles County Board of Adjustments. I'm the board's chairman, Jerry Princster. The duties of the board include one, hearing appeals to vary the zoning requirements to provide relief where the conditions of a property prevent development consistent with the intent or purpose of the applicable zoning regulations and to render decisions on appeal from an action of the director of the Division of Planning and Zoning when it has been alleged that a permit has been incorrectly issued or denied. The board members here are citizen volunteers who are appointed by the county executive with county council approval. County staff members are also present to assist with these proceedings and advise the board, which we frequently need. By the way, at this time we ask that you please mute all

cell phones and other electric devices that will interrupt our meeting. During this meeting, each case will begin with a presentation by the applicant, which is typically limited to five minutes. County staff will then have an opportunity to provide relevant information for the board to consider. Any written communications from the public will be entered into the record. The board will then take public testimony relevant to whether or not granting of this requested variance would be appropriate. All persons planning to speak at tonight's meeting must first complete a speaker card and hand it to the recording secretary. Blank cards are located on the podium. Each speaker approaching the podium. Let's see this. Okay. Shall submit their card. I've only read this read this 50 times. state their name and be sworn in. Testimony is typically limited to five minutes per speaker. One testimony. Once testimony has concluded, I will close the public hearing and no further input from the audience will be taken. A board member will move to approve the application so that discussion and a vote may take place as required by county ordinance. At least four of the five board members must vote in the affirmative for a variance request to be approved. If the variance request is approved, the applicant may proceed after the proper permits have been issued. Any decision by the board of zoning adjustment may be appealed to the

county council within 14 working days after notification of the board of zoning adjustments decision has been mailed. The unified development ordinance and zoning maps for St. Charles County are hereby entered are hereby entered into the record. Please uh let's see. I hereby open a public hearing in this case. Would uh secretary, would you read,

please? Okay. Yes. Would you please uh variance request 4180 Benny Road application number V25-03 Property owner Lynn P. Melson and Tamara T. Melson. Revocable qualified trust. Applicant is Pat Melson. Variance request, there's two of them. A is a request to vary 405421D2 of the ordinance of St. Charles County to exceed a 050 foot candles of illumination trip exterior lighting as measured at the property line and B request to vary 405 421D5 of the ordinance of St. Charles County to authorize installation of light fixtures on poles greater than 20 ft in height. Property zoning is a agricultural partial size is 5.00 acres. County council district number two partial number T22200 523. All right. I've I've shuffled my pages and I'm lost. So bear with me. Is the applicant here to speak on behalf of this request?

Yes. Do you say something, Robert? No, I Okay, just agree. Okay. Have you filled out a card? I have. Okay. Would you please come up to the podium? And you've given the card to our young lady here. Thank you. All right. Please state your name and address. Uh my name is Sean Melson. My address is 122 Keystone Ridge of Missouri 63366. Okay, cool. Thank you. Welcome. I'm sorry. Your name is what? Sean Melson. I'm here on behalf of my father, Patrick Melson, and my mother, Tamara Melson. Oh, okay. Thank you.

Okay. Please state your position. Sure. Oh, I'm sorry. He keeps me in line. Please raise your right hand. You pro solemnly swear to tell the whole truth, nothing but the truth. And I always say, "So help me, God, but I get yelled at for that." Uh, and uh, under penalty of perjury. I do. Thank you. Now, now proceed. Great. Uh, and he'll keep me in line again if I get out. I'm done.

Okay. So, I'd like to start off by thanking you guys for having me tonight. Um, I'll go ahead first and I'll kind of zoom out on the property that we purchased. Um, so right here, lot says lot four. It's pretty small, but this is the school. This is the five acres that our nonforprofit school sits on. This lot right here is my personal lot. I own 10 acres. It's my sister's lot. She owns 10 acres. My father's lot, he owns 25 acres. Um, now I'm going to kind of zoom you in to the school. All right. So, right now, this is the school here, the parking lot. This is the front of the school. And in behind, we now have a turf soccer field. And we currently have an ordinance to put up 20ft poles. Um, this right here will show you the illumination with 40 foot poles that we're asking for. Um, you can see that it gives us the illumination we need to really not have the dark spots on the field. And you can also see that the spillage is pretty minimal. Certainly is contained within the property itself and it goes off the actual field. I believe we said about a half foot.

What is the use of this field? It's for children. Um it's for the kids that go to the school uh to to practice their athletics like a playground type. It's not necessarily a baseball or football or soccer or anything like that. Uh well, it's you know the lines on it right now is a soccer field. It's a turf soccer field, but it'll certainly be multi-purpose for the school's athletic program. Okay. Thank you. Thank you.

Um, well, I I got Well, show show me a a a map of where this is going to be compared to any other properties around it. Is there anything around it besides your family's property or is it So, I'm I'm certainly the closest to it, right? I'm going to look out my window and see it. There's my house right there. Where's the on this map? Show me where the the school and the right here next to the pond. Okay. That's where the field is. And then up here is where the building is. And then my house is right there. This field's going to be where? Field's going to be right here. So, we look at this one.

Is that field in existence as a field now? How is it laid out now? Yes, it is. It's there's a turf field there now. Okay. And it's marked for soccer or something, you said? Yeah, we just completed it. Uh the turf is in now and it's lined out for Okay. for soccer. That's correct. And then in terms of proximity to the lights, there's certainly nobody closer to these lights than myself. Thought I'd point that out. How many students do you have?

We currently have 23 students at the school. It's a new school. Um we opened last year and this year we have 23 students. We have a capacity of 50 students at our school. So it's uh limited to seven kids per grade and it's a kindergarten through 8th grade school and this field will serve hundreds of kids um starting now and going forward. So we would love to other other than the kids that go to your school are able to use the field.

Um yeah, certainly. I mean, we will have people that will go to the school come to the field. Um especially when we have practices going on. Um and the reason for the lights as fall soccer, spring soccer, it gets dark at 5. Um so, you know, we would like to be able to play um because our school gets done at 4:00. So, the kids that would come and play soccer with us, you know, we would need lights for that to happen. So that is the reason for the request so we can see the place happen. Are there going to be any tournaments or anything played here?

That is certainly not our intention to have any tournaments or host any games. We're not in a league or anything like that. Um we're simply just trying to make it a better condition for the students that go there and some of the friends of the students that would come play with them. Um also it could be used for recruiting. It is impressive to have a turf soccer field for a lot of people. Um, so it would be used for that as well to kind of bring people out and show them what we're doing. What are the grade levels of the 23 kids that go to school there?

So, currently we have a full kindergarten class. We have all seven kindergarteners. Um, there's five first graders. There is two second graders, three third graders, two fourth graders, um, and two fifth graders. So, and then we have some preschool age kids, but they're in our kindergarten class as well. So, kindergarten is where we really get a lot of kids that want to come to this school. We noticed that when kids are, you know, established in a school, second grade, third grade, they're not as willing to switch schools. Um, but but yeah, right now we're at 23 and we have the ability to go up to 50 with what's in place right now. But you really can't have any teams, so to speak.

No, that's not the purpose of it. Really, the purpose is for training. Um, you know, for the kids to have an environment outside in a natural setting uh where they can condition and one of our core values is fortitude at the school. So, you know, we have a wrestling room at our school. Um we have a lot of athletics that are going on there. Um and that's that's the whole reason for it is to build children for the future. Um we're very community driven. One another core value is service. So, we'd also utilize the space to to to do some things like that and bring some people over that maybe don't have the opportunity to play on the turf field um and come visit and see what we're offering.

I read somewhere, I believe in one of these documents talked about kids that go to school there are the children of people that work for your parents. Is that true? No. Um my my children go there, my sister's children go there, and then all the other children that go there um are people that just live in the area. Live in the area. Yeah. Um some of the teacher students, their kids go there as well.

Um but other than that, no, it's been a lot of a lot of kids that were friends with that they know through sports that have come in. But once again, it's a non for profit. The tuition pretty much covers their food. Um it certainly doesn't cover the teachers. We're subsidizing the majority of what it would cost for someone to go to this school and we're always going to. And And you get no money from anybody outside. No, we we own a large home improvement company that donates the money to us. What kind of company? It's a home improvement company. Okay. Yeah, we we donate about we donate half a million dollars a year to this and we're going to continue to do that. My youngest daughter is six months old, so it's going to go on for a while.

Okay. Do you plan on letting anybody else use the fields for rented out or for practices or We do not. No.

Oh, on this piece of paper that we have. I mean, there's a neighbor. Is that that close? This is your school and then it's across the road. It just it looks [Music] We need to speak in the microphone, please. Sorry. Oh, you guys. We need to speak in the microphone. Yeah, that that neighbor is not very visible because of trees. Okay. Um, so I've actually never really even seen that neighbor. Okay.

What's the long range plan for this school? uh to provide an incredible environment for kids to come learn and to grow into leaders of the future. Okay. Would staff like to add anything additional, Robert? Uh I've got a short presentation whenever you're ready, but let me let me make sure. Are you finished with your presentation? I believe so. Okay. Anybody else got a question of Yep. Nope. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Please have a seat. Anybody else in the audience to speak for or against this varian?

We'll open the public hearing after his presentation. Sorry. Point of order. Chairman, sir. He'll give his presentation then you can open the public hearing for the public. They have that out of order. Okay. Please be seated. Go ahead. Yeah. It's usually usually Sorry, just give us one second.

I think they're trying to get the bait football game turned up.

Can you hear me? Okay. Yep. You can on Can you hear me? Okay. No, Lori. No, I can.

Okay. All right. Uh, my name is Robert Myers. I'm the planning zoning division director for St. Charles County. And I just want to make a few brief remarks. This property, as was already stated, is a private school. It's in the agricultural zoning district located on the south side of Benny Road about halfway between Highway D and DD uh near Brahmlick Park if you know that area. It's uh fairly close to the to the uh Brew House on Benny Road. Um but it's a it's a typically or generally speaking it's larger lots, five plus acres. Some are residential and some are used for agricultural purposes. Um there's a uh on Benny Road on the south side there's a polo field and there's also a small uh you might call it even a micro brew house on that in that area as well. But generally speaking again it's 5 acre plus lots and single family homes with some uh agricultural as well. So, this subdivision uh is composed of five plus acre lots. They have a the school that's being referenced has a conditional use permit that was approved by the county council a few years ago and it has a number of of uh stipulations or conditions I should say. Those conditions include the maximum number of students which uh it's although your staff report says 20 it's actually we check the ordinances a maximum of 30. Um and there are some limitations on outdoor uses the time limitations and outdoor lighting. So no later than 900 p.m. for outdoor activities and no later for 9 than 900 p.m. for outdoor lighting of the of the

practice field. So, what we're talking about here is the illumination basically between dusk and 900 p.m. um or potentially I guess early in the morning, but there's there may or may not be that involved. Um so, again, the stipulations or the conditions come into play concerning this application, the conditions for approval. I would also say that this is a specific or atypical use. It's a conditioner use in the um in the agricultural zoning district. There's only so many schools in the agricultural zoning district and they have obviously they have different needs and functions. Uh a customary use for a a private school is a a practice field. That's that's pretty typical. We've had one other case since 1959. I've checked our records. We have one other uh variance case for a school and the height of light fixtures and that was for Francis how school district in 2013 on St. Peters how road. They applied to St. Charles County for a variance uh from the maximum height of light fixtures from 20 feet to 70 feet. Let me make sure I've got that number right. 70. Yes, 70 feet for athletic field lighting and that was approved in 2013. In this case, they're not asking for 70 feet, they're asking for uh 40 ft instead. Um the condition use permit referenced the practice field. So, it was clear that that was going to be um located at some point on this property. The other thing is I've dealt over the years with lots of athletic fields at schools and this is somewhat different in that yes they're proposing to have outdoor light fixtures

but to my knowledge they're not talking about a PA system which is obviously um can be um intrusive for neighbors and they're also not talking about um they don't have any to my knowledge have any large uh observation stands. So, the parking lot is pretty small. The school is limited to 30 children and it's primarily for the practice of the kids going to school, although we heard tonight that it could be other kids as well. But we're not talking about a high school with a thousand students or something. It's really in a different category, I would say. Um, there is in addition to the house that was mentioned of the the uh person who made the presentation tonight, his house just south of this property, there's also another house to the east and it's located the building is located about 300 ft to the east of this practice field. And that address is 4140 Benny Road. So again, that house is about 300 feet east of uh of the practice field. And someone in the audience tonight asked me, well, the the the foot can illumination, how much is half a foot candle? How bright is that? How far away can that be seen? So I didn't have a good answer at that time. So let me I I I did pull that up just so we can for reference. uh half a foot candle represents according to this very dim lighting similar to the faint light in the far corners of a parking lot or on a pedestrian walkway. And that's how I've always thought of it like a half a foot candle to one fat candle. You know how you have a um

um a walkway between the sidewalk and someone's house and a lot of times they'll put periodically every five feet like lowle lighting. That's that in my mind that's about it's basically about half a foot candle. So we do have the county does have an ordinance that mandates no more than half a foot candle of lighting as measured at the property line. So, um, one thing I would like to do is confirm because we didn't hear so much about it, but, uh, the applicant has a a lighting plan prepared by a lighting professional showing what the foot candle level will be across the entire practice field. Um, but not necessarily at the property line. So I I guess my very first question is based on the applicants representative here tonight, do they actually need do do they feel like they actually need that first variance for the the level of light illumination? Obviously they they do need the variance for the height of the light poles, but do they really need that first variance for the level of lighting illumination? That's that's a question in my mind. In terms of the variance criteria, the memo goes into much greater detail than I will, but there's four different variance criteria that should be used consideration for uh each of the the two variances. And the standard is that um it's got to meet all four criteria in order to in order to approve a variance. But generally speaking, I can summarize them here. Is the variance requested due to unique circumstances inherent to the specific piece of property and not to personal considerations of the property

owner? Is the variance um needed as a result of an affirmative act of the property owner that could have been avoided through a different course of action? In other words, that they cause their own need for a variance. Would the variance grant merely grant a special benefit to the property beyond what is enjoyed by other properties regulated by the same set of zoning regulations. And then fourth, um, would it result in practical difficulties to the property owner? Um, in for if the variance were not granted in determining whether practical difficulties exist. Relevant factors to consider include whether the owner can pursue the p uh permitted use without a variance, financial hardship to the property owner from the strict application of the regulation, how substantial the variance request is in relation to the regulation, uh whether the difficulty can be overcome by some method other than a variance and etc. So again, those are the four criteria. Um, for the reasons cited in the county staff's memorandum, rather than going through them one by one, our our recommendation is we feel that all four criteria are are met and in part because um, schools customally customarily do have practice fields such as this and the practice fields are customarily lit. It's not necessarily something that's out of the ordinary and a 20 foot fixture is often uh sufficient to light up parking lots. Um but if you have a larger area, a practice field, you know, a larger area

for a practice field, in order to get sufficient lighting all the way around, the light poles often need to be taller than 20 ft. Okay. Thank you, Robert. Can I ask Sean a question? I was just gonna ask any board members have questions. Can you reply to Mr. Meyer's question about needing one instead of five on the whatever they call it illumination.

Yeah. So I believe you were one of the more detailed lighting plan that showed it in regards to the property line, not just the fuel. Is that

I I guess um my question is whether the applicant's representative feels like that that first variance request is actually even needed given this information from the the lighting engineer showing how the field itself is lit up. It it doesn't show the property lines, but I I would I guess the maybe is not needed that I'm hearing here to go and put the lights up. As far as the spillage goes, the lumens, that's it's not there is no spillage off the property lines and I could have my lighting engineers go ahead and show that. Um but as far as asking for the first variance, then I think that's great. We're here to get a I I feel like I need to ask you guys, do I need a variance? Do I need this first variance or are you telling me I don't need the first variance to go ahead and proceed with this? Well, um, my thinking is based on the documentation I've seen tonight provided by the applicants representative, I'm not seeing definitive evidence by from the lighting engineer that um, it will be half a foot candle or less on the property line. So, it's I think it's going to be if it's not less than half a foot candle, it'll be close to that. My thinking is so I would say you're probably better off leaving the variance on.

Okay. Rather than rather than um withdrawing that. Okay. That's just my thought. Well, you seem to know what you're talking about. He asked the question. Any other questions from the board members? And the property line we're talking about in all this conversation is property line around the field itself or the property line on the property on the property the the entire property itself. Yeah, it's it's a half of a candle at the not at the edge of the practice field but around the property lines itself which is way from the field itself.

Well, I wouldn't say it's way away from it's it's uh in proximity but it's I'm going to be what 30 feet away. I don't know exactly. Yeah, I don't know exactly neither, but it's I would say 30 feet away just being out there and looking 30 20 feet away. So, the spillage is a it's a half foot from the field. So, I I can certainly, you know, get get my engineer to show you the whole property and how it's not going to spill. I thought this would show that, but yeah, I could Any other questions from the board members?

Has the county received any written communications about this? Robert concerning this application? Um, according to this packet? No. Lori, do you have any information to the contrary? Um, I didn't any letters. Okay. Okay. Would anyone in the or you're finished. Thank you for for the time being. Would anyone from the audience like to testify in support or against this appeal? If I may, please. Have you filled out a card? Yes, sir.

Okay. Please raise your right hand. Do you swear to tell the whole truth, nothing but the truth? I still say so help you God under penalty of perjury. Yes, sir. Thank you. Please identify yourself. David Vang Tart. Okay. Uh the house you're talking about, I believe that's mine. Okay. Okay.

4140 Benny Road. Um and I'm here to object vehemently to this. I feel that this passage has been an eyesore on my property mainly because the lights are on all night long. They talk about spillage over. I have to shut doors to the bedroom to be able to sleep at night. I can walk from my bedroom, through my family room, through my breakfast room to the kitchen to get a drink of water without ever turning on a light because of the lights that are already there. And I hate doing this. I tried to be neighborly. I went over there three times asking about what they can do about the lights shining on the property. No response from anyone. I've always been told the supervisor would get back to me. For over a year, I've never heard one word. Now, we want to talk about natural settings. If they had truly planned this all out, they could have put this field down in the little bowl next to the school. They wouldn't need to have a variance. they wouldn't need to have the lights on poles because there's a slope right there down to a nice little bowl to put a practice field thereby hindering the neighbors and the adjacent properties a lot less. We also want to talk about the promises that were made that this would not impact the adjacent properties. I can tell you right now I can walk the dog at night without a flashlight. And as far as kids playing soccer, I have two grandkids. They're up in the field right next to the school on my property playing soccer all the time. We don't need lights. We just pull the goal out. They go out there and play. I cut the field especially short for that very reason. There's been no demonstrated need to having more lights put on this property than is already there. Additionally,

when a neighbor comes up to friendly request that actions be taken, I think it should be done, not ignored. They've done nothing to do it. I have a picture on my phone, but I don't think it would do justice. I'd even invite the applicant down at 10:00 at night to see what the lights are. If we leave at 4 in the morning, we don't have to turn any lights on on our house. For that reason, I don't think there's any demonstrated need to have additional lights put on this property. Uh, as far as putting together issues with this matter, I keep hearing it's not for profofit. The applicant to this matter is not a not for-profit company. It's a trust. Typically, those are not not forprofits. So even the application I would guess without knowing because I only got notice of this yesterday and had no way of preparing for this and for that I'm sorry but just looking at I don't think it's even the proper applicant. Furthermore, when the original variance was given, we were talking about landscape buffers, no activities past nine, full cut off lights to prevent light impact on surrounding properties. That did not happen. There is no prevention of light coming into my back door. And I those are most of the reasons I have to object to this. Furthermore, we've seen nothing about the plans. They just want taller poles to put up lights on a half a soccer field. I played soccer all my life. We didn't need lights to play. When it got dark, we went inside. We're talking about children here that are under the age that sounds like under the age of 14. They don't need to be playing till 9:00 at night. And if they are, there's lighted fields in Chesterfield. There's lighted fields DD and 40.

They could go practice on those. I don't think that this is in line with what the neighborhood wishes for or personally what I wish for. And as for the brew house, those lights are all set 600 700 yardds back from the road. They have one light at the entrance and they've kept that down. I'm fearful of more lights going up and promises being made again at this variance. they're not adhered to. And by the way, some of the packet they submitted, they're talking about these Horner spotlights that are 4800 or 48,000 to 135,000 lumens. I don't know what that means, but I definitely believe it's going to impact me further to my detriment and it's going to be a nuisance and therefore I have to object. I wish we could have talked it out, but I've tried that. I tried to be courteous because I don't want to be here doing this. I'd rather be a good neighbor. I'd rather get off on the right foot, but I've been ignored the whole time and I don't think that's right.

Have you filed any complaints with the county on the lights being on? As you said,

I've not I thought about calling the police, but I don't want to do that. I think that starts you off on the wrong foot. I've actually looked and and talked to a builder about what I could build outside to help prevent me from having to look at the lights. And the statement about there's trees in between that road that goes in between there's willow trees. My trees right now don't block it. And then come winter, they definitely don't block these lights because the leaves are all down. I can't enjoy the my back deck. can't go out and look at stars anymore because the lights are interfering now. And they've refused to do anything about it. And I don't know if it I I I want backup. I don't want to say that. I don't know if the message was were never delivered or anything else, but three times I've gone over there just to ask that the lights facing my house have some have something done with them so they're not blaring in there all night. And so I just fear any more lighting is just going to make it worse. And that's why and again I don't think they've demonstrated any need that the children need to be playing from you can play at dusk. I did for years. Once it comes dark we went home. That was the time. I don't think they've demonstrated a need and it's definitely detrimental to have that much more light out there and that much more light pollution.

How often are the lights kept on as you I think you said earlier sometimes all night. They're on every day all night. 10 11 12 one 2 3 4 5 in the morning. You're talking about their parking lot lights. I'm talking about the lights already on the school that they are not supposed to have any fixtures that are shining directly into adjacent properties and that's not what's happening. Where does it state that these lights can't shine? Are they Robert? That's per the ordinance, sir.

Are Robert, are those lights only supposed to go to the property line or do you know? Well, by county ordinance, the the lighting limit is 05.5 foot candles at the property line, and that's reviewed at the time of the site plan approval and the building permit approval. Um, and there's a lighting plan that's submitted with the building permit and or the site plan. But I would say there's sometimes when people later come in and put in like wall packs and lighting on the walls, things like that, they don't go through the building permit or site plan process and they and those um often don't. In fact, we have a we have a church currently who's we're um dealing with that right now. So,

has any Mr. buyers. Has anybody from the county been out there at night to see what the current situation is or what it looks like? Not at night. Uh we've been there during the daytime, but not night time. Uh but we do if if we receive um inquiries from neighbors or reports from neighbors, we do follow up on those as potential violations and if need be, we can go out at night time with the light meter. Okay. either either community or the police department, one or the other. Who should this gentleman complain to?

Uh there is um let's see community development department. In essence, uh if any um any complaint submitted to the community development department, we can process that. Okay. Thanks, Robert. Yeah, as long as it's specific, I would say if someone turns in and submits a request to uh review something out in the field, one of the first things we'll need is the the address of the property, that's very helpful to have. So, there are channels for him to go through at least in in theory.

Yes. Yeah. The light fixtures are to be shielded and there's also a maximum of 0.5 ft candles at the property line. Years ago, I built the go-kart track on on Highway 94 South Mhm. at the Hem South property and the restrictions on those lights was brutal. I mean, it it was city of St. Peters, by the way, but they enforced it. We had we had to replace some lights and when there were complaints it was addressed and it sounds to me like that hasn't happened on SPM.

Okay. Any other comments from the from the board? Normally when someone's issued a conditional use permit, as far as my background in cities, um the person asking for that permit would normally go around to the neighbors and get a yes or a no way before it gets to this point. Uh and I don't think that's been done, sir. I don't think it was done back in 2022. Doesn't sound like it has never been done. I've been there almost 20 years.

Unfortunately, I've never met my neighbors. They've never uh when they did the brew house across the street, I had inquiries about if I'd object to anything. Not here. I think there's a neighborly things that need to be done.

Well, and I would represent sorry tribe by going over there three times because I hate making complaints. I hate doing all that because I again I think it starts off on the wrong foot. But I don't think in this case I've been left with any choice and I don't think they've demonstrated any need to have such a conditional use permit this time based on their past actions. There's ways this could have been prevented in the planning stages by not having the field in that location and using the natural terrain, but they didn't want to do that. They want to come in and then afterwards say, "Oh, well, we need more lights." And that's the problem here is it's a detriment to me and to I think everybody around there to have so many lights that are polluting it. Not just me, but for all nature, too. Because we've had we used to have a lot more deer. We used to have a lot more owls on the property. And this more pollution just prevents those from being around. So, I again, I wish I wasn't here. I wish I wasn't having to say these things, but I didn't feel like I had a choice and I haven't seen anything else other than the letter I got yesterday and what I could find online today. So, thank you for your time.

Thank you. Did the county, Mr. Myers, did the county send out notices to neighbors and do we still do that? We do. Excuse me. We do. Um so for planning and zoning commission it's 15 days but for the border zoning adjustment it has a a no more than 10 days and no less than five days I think it is. So it's it's a very specific window within which you have to mail the letters. Can we change that? I mean the mail system does kind of excuse my language suck right now. Right. Can we make it 15 days like the other one just so people get some notification before? I think we could. I mean, to my knowledge, we could do that. Yes.

A council change. I mean, I think everybody here understands the mail system is a little slower than it used to be. I don't know why it has a maximum amount of time, 10 days. I mean, that's that's what the ordinance says. Okay. Well, sounds to me like the minimum should be increased, not the maximum. If you give him more time, not less time. Does I agree? It makes sense to me just to have a minimum of x number of days, whatever is right.

Well, I'm I'm concerned about what his avenues are. Um, if we approve these lights, for example, and they ignore according to what your condition recommendations, uh, no lighting of the athletic field shall take place between the hours of 9 and 7. So, they wouldn't be able to run. You know, if you guys go out and look at these lights during the daytime, that's a waste of time in my opinion. Um, what kind of enforcement is there for these restrictions if we put something on those lights? I mean, it was pretty strict when St. Peters was after me. Well, um, several of these several of these proposed conditions actually reflect what's already a condition for operation of the of the school. For instance, athletic field lighting should not be operated between the hours of 900 p.m. and 7 a.m. consistent with the conditions of CUP 21-21. So, that's already a condition

but not being enforced. Well, to my knowledge, there's no lighting right now of the athletic field, and that's what they're here to request. I thought they had some exist. Do you have any existing lighting on the field? I guess. So, right now there's no lights on the field.

If you could speak into the microphone. Yeah. Sorry, they're asking. Bring that back up, please. Yes.

Yeah. To meet this gentleman. Um, and we're certainly not trying to be unneely in any way. Um, I've never met him. I've never heard about these concerns. None of us have. So, I'd be very curious to know who he spoke with to begin with because I would have addressed it. I'd have walked over to his house and shook his hand before all this. Um, but his concerns, I guess, I don't really understand. We're going to have our lights off by 9:00 p.m. He's talking about lights being on his house all night long right now. And It's a very small light. I'll point out, but these lights aren't going to be on all night long. They're going to be off at night. And these lights, the school will benefit hundreds of kids. Um, it sounds like it might, it doesn't even sound like it's going to inconvenient my neighbor because they're going to be off at 9:00 and I can guarantee that. So, that's all I got. Thank you.

Thank you. Any additional public comments? If not, I will close the public hearing at this time. May I have a motion to approve variation a sum of what we recur refer to as A and that is for that's for the lumens. That's right. We're going to do this in two separate actions and point of order chairman just want to make sure that's a motion with the conditions that the I just asked with the conditions with the conditions that the the division proposed. Correct.

Well, I want to clarify that we're making a motion only on discussions on one on on a correct and that is uh to exceed the 50 foot candles of illumination attributable to exterior lighting as measured at the property line. And that's with the county six county conditions. Yeah, I made that recommendation with the con including the conditions. I'll second it. Okay, I've got a motion and a second. Vicki, yay or nay?

Yeah. What? Yes. Yes. No. One. No. I'm a no. Who knows? Yes. Um, it's a tie. So, I only get to vote if there's a tie. Is that correct? No, you vote on everything, but you need four for a for it to pass. So, it's already two two. So, so we're not going to have that. We're not going to pass. Okay. What's your vote, Jerry? Yeah. Um, I vote no. Jerry, I have a question for you. Yes. Are you voting no because of the whites on the field or the lights that exist on the building?

What we're acting on is their request to furnish these 50ft uh candle lights, the new lights. We're voting on the request or a variance. Nothing to do what's with what's there now.

Okay, that that has been defeated. Uh we will now address uh request number two which is to authorize installation of light fixtures on poles greater than 20 ft in height. Now I find that the way this is presented leaves that pretty open. Greater than 20 feet can be pretty high. Well, it's not specifically 4 feet in this variance request that I have in my hand. I agree with you.

Okay, real quickly, two things. One is that the documents that are in the packet show 40 feet, but also you could add a condition if you wanted to to limit it to 40T. Those are two thoughts. Yeah, it's not written in there. If you wanted to move to add a condition to limit it at 40T right now and then vote on that real quick and then just leaves it way open, just greater than 20 ft.

That's what I'm saying. And so if you want to entertain a motion to add a condition that would limit the height of the poles to 40 ft, you could go ahead and do that. Vote on that and that would add that condition onto the uh to the um the conditions recommended by the uh the division and then you can vote it with all those conditions together. So do two votes, one being to move. So I will entertain a motion. I'll make the motion with the five county uh recommendations and add a sixth one to limit it to 40 ft. That'll work. Yeah. Second. But can we have discussion or not? Yeah, sure.

How can they even have light pools if the first one doesn't even pass? Okay. Can make the lumens less than one. Sure. 1.5. Okay. Or 89. I'm being smart. Sorry. Yeah. You're like that. The first one was to exceed the lumens in the property. And this one is to exceed the maximum heights allowed for poles in the property. So the the fixtures will have to be shielded and oriented such that there's it meets that 0.5 foot cano maximum at the property line. Isn't that part of the county ordinance now that they have to have that shielding? Yes. Direct directional lighting we call back when I was doing that go-kart track. Right. Okay. Uh Vicki. Yes.

Yes. Yes. Nope. No. Wait. Give me a second. I got to catch up. Take your time. This is for the Are you voting on the um adding the condition? Yes. This is this the motion includes those conditions. Okay. And limits them to 40 ft. Let me fix my sheet. He's left-handed, so we got to bear with him. Vicki on B, you were Yes. Yep. Jack, you were No. Me? I'm Yes. Yes. Yes.

So, they we've approved the polls. and turn down the light just to make sure. So that vote was not on adding the one condition that vote we I added a Yeah, I added the six condition to 40 ft. It was fine. Yeah. So that wasn't how I suggested but it it works out.

All right. That's okay. just so we have one condition that was approved and one that was denied. Uh the one that has denied you have certain rights how you can let me see if I can find it. Uh it it tells you how to proceed and I still got this all you got like 10 days to take it to the county board something like that right I think you have 14 14 I think 14

okay there we are you know that Brian is a for 14 days of I believe it's 14 it is 14 days from the day we mail out our findings yeah they'll give up the division will mail out the findings for this and then 14 days from that point. Okay.

Those being the variances, we are completed with them. You have you're right to proceed that with the uh county council in it. Robert, the request goes where? Well, um, if it's if it's not a unanimous decision, u it can be appealed to the St. Charles County Council.

It goes to the council. It was they could file it with them, but it goes to with the division, but it goes to it'll go to the council. Yeah. All right. Well, I just I want to clarify that as much as we can since, you know, I don't want any more animosity than exists. Yeah. You know, these two guys are going to hopefully become friends and neighbors and we'll all live happily ever after. Okay. Um, what do we have to approve minutes from last meeting? Motion approve the May 1st 25 minutes. Do I hear a second? Second, Vicki.

Yes, Jack. Yes. Yes. Okay. Yes. For me? Yes. Well, you done? Okay. Those minutes are approved. I'll uh take a motion to call this meeting to adjourn this meeting. So move. Second. We have anything else we're supposed to do before I get yelled at? No, I think we're good. Thank you everybody for attending. Thanks for everybody staying civil and hopefully can work