County Council - Regular Meeting

I'm good. Does this mean it's it's official, Rory? Does this mean it's official? Uh, that's a good question. Oh, okay. Yeah, I got mine in. I got Oh, I had one. John White being brought up today.

All right. All right. Well, my phone says it's 5:00, so I would entertain a motion if someone would be so kind. I will do that. I will do that. Thank you, sir. Like to make a motion to go into closed session per state statute RSM610 uh.021 1 and 3. Do I have a second? Second. Second. She needs to do a roll call, doesn't she? Yeah. Hold, please. Hold, please. I can take the like. That would be great. So,

all right. Council member Swanson absent. Council member Brazle absent. Council member Hammond. Yes. Council member Hollander. Yes. Council member York. Yes. Council member Baker. Yes. And Council Member Elum. Excuse me. Yes. Sorry. I get skipped just like being at home. All right, so we're in close session. Uh we'll see you afterwards. Okay, he he did he

come out of close session. Motion come out of close session. Motion here. Second. All those in favor? I. Close session is done. So we are going to take nine minutes before we get back and we start doing budget. So hold tight. Smoke them if you got Can you do that anymore?

Oh, yeah. All right. Okay. Kevin Colleen's here so we can start as what we were just kidding man. Um all right so this is our first budget hearing of the year uh work session that we are doing for the 2026 recommended budget for St. Charles County. I know everybody's had the budget uh for a little while and had an opportunity to go through it. Um some of us sent some questions in. I know Mr. Baker, Mr. Swans, and myself. We sent those in. I thought to get us started, we would um give administration an opportunity to just kind of walk through those questions and we can get those answers of what's already been submitted and then if anybody has anything in particular that you want to talk about, we're going to go from there. Um Michelle McBride is the only elected official, right, Claire, that has expressed interest in coming to talk. she could not make tonight's meeting, so she wants to come on next Monday. Uh, good reminder, just so everybody knows, we are back here next Monday, which means anything that gets introduced tonight, and we can talk about this some more, but anything that gets introduced tonight cannot be passed next Monday because we will not have enough time in between the readings for it to be passed. So, anything that gets introduced tonight will have to be held over in terms of getting passed until the next meeting in December, which I believe is the 15th. So, with that, Joanne, how do you want to start going through who do you want to take point?

Um, well, uh, I think probably Mike, we need to have you come up and join us. And uh Bob's here and um so Brian and Rob are also here. So what we thought we'd do is kind of go down through the questions. Uh as you and I talked, maybe that's a place, but if the council's like, "Nah, we read that move on. We'll just keep I would say we if we have questions about any of these answers, we ought to talk about, but I don't think we need to go through all of them." Okay. Yeah. Why don't you think you need more clarity? You want you want to start first, Mr. Baker, then? I've got Yeah, I've got plenty of stuff. Just do me a favor and pull that mic down.

All right, we'll do that. Bob, why don't you and Mike go to the uh go to those mics. So, on on page 16, I'll start with the the the hard part. 166 on the budget.

On the budget, we have 650,000 allocated to the Lake St. was Boulevard extension project which ironically is the amount of money I believe I need for my soundwall which is 100,000 for engineering and 550,000 for construction which I believe that construction cost I was relayed to me from Amanda I would like to move that money and add it to the the sound wall on Milwood Court I think 16 you said 166 on page 166 six. Okay. When's that?

So, Mr. Chairman, can I just clarify something? And so, I take it from the councilman's question. That's something you guys are going to debate policy-wise because this isn't actually a document that can be amended before you. This is the budget as we submitted it and that would actually be an amendment when you have the bill introduced next week. And that so that will be in next week's meeting that part of the wood after that. Can we vote on the amendment tonight? We don't have anything to amend tonight. This is a recommended budget in front of you. The actual bill will be introduced next Monday the 1st. So I have to make it make the motion then. Make the motion then or the next

Monday. Joanne, normally they vote on the amendment at the second meeting in December or they vote on the bill at the second meeting. They normally vote on the bill. There have very few times ever. It's like you usually don't vote when we first read something. Usually don't vote. We'll wait until the next But I mean, so Mr. Baker. Yeah. Let Mr. Summer weigh in on this real quick. Sure. And I just want to remind the county council that this is a work session, so there'd be no voting tonight. Right. Same way with next. You can't vote during a work session. That's fine. I understand that. I just I mean, yeah. So, well, I So, just to clarify, I I have to make that motion on the first or or the

No, you don't have to make it the first. you can make it as part of the final bill passage on at the second meeting. But again, you may not know what the final bill is because usually after we have this discussion between the first and the second meeting, there's always something somebody finds that we have to do a substitute on the last day and and then that's what you would that's what you would what I envisioned is we talk about these things. You can talk about it all you want. You just can't vote on it now. Well, right. Well, yeah. And then the tip gets amended and we vote on it or it or we vote it down or we make changes. I mean that is that Okay. And remember also that the tip and the budget while they coordinate they are separate bills.

Okay, Mr. Sir. And so every this so everybody's clear, the recommended budget you got at the beginning of November, when we get to the the the introduction of the final budget ordinance, you're going to get a re you're going to get the chance then to begin moderating on the budget. But you're going to get before final passage of the budget a revised budget document that will show you any changes that have taken place from late October until the time that this this bill gets voted on in December. Uh we normally uh furnish the council with a summary of changes and updates um personnel changes, you know, all kinds of different things that you'll see that will take you from the document you already have to the document that would be voted on for introduction at introduction and then final passage.

If you if you have questions about that procedure, I do. Well, let us know. I'll take we'll explain it again. Okay. Now, as I I as I understand it though, there's right now we could discuss the merits or non-mmerits of his proposal, right? That's that's the purpose of what we're doing here. Six of them saying no. Then well, we can move on off the subject. I wasn't trying to stop any discussion about the merits of that between you all. That's what this is for. Okay. I just don't because I just don't understand. I mean, I know we're we can't officially vote on anything, but I thought we could get a consensus of how we like the tip. We can we can we can Okay. Yes. To what what Bob was just saying, we can discuss that now. Yeah.

So, if we're looking at I I would suggest that we start by you brought up page 166. I would suggest that we start looking at what do you want to remove before we start talking about where do you want to move it to? So, I think it's good to start. Is that fair to say this is your work session. We're just here to answer questions. So, but I appreciate that. But before you let me get too far down the road and in trouble, then um I think if we're talking about what is the money that you want to move from the budget on page 166,

as I mentioned, the 650,000 from the Lake St. Louis Boulevard extension, I guess it's account number 86021 or 021. Correct. Yeah. Now I you know feeding off that I would like maybe some Amanda or somebody from the administration to discuss the quote importance non-importance necessity of the Lake St. Louis Boulevard extension. I'm ready to do that if you want me to. Well, I mean just because we're we're moving it out of the budget. They're not saying we don't think it's important. No. Yeah. I'm just I'm just trying to get an idea how important.

Yeah, I I've got I've got just a twominut uh thing. Let's go. Works for a minute. Put it in perspective.

Kevin, I assume the people in the back know what I'm going to need them to do. If they don't, they're about to. Just while we're waiting, the way I look at it is we have a lot of constituents that don't want this project and I have constituents that do want a project. So, you know, it's a win-win situation. Again, I'm not speaking of the merits of the project. I'm just speaking for what con constituents how we look at it.

All right, here it is. And and I just want to give you a little historic perspective on on this. Um really what the road board's been doing the last 40 years is is creating a grid in the initial go to the how do I go forward on this? Press down. Huh? Press down. Press down where other one. This one. The down there on the bottom. Yeah. He hit right click on the mouse.

Hit the other. There you go. Now you go. There you go. Just that one.

Yeah, but this is the fourth one. I want to keep going. started. Can they take him back to the There you go. Now, your hat, Steve.

Okay. Historically, what we had in St. Charles County going back to the to uh the early statehood is a lot of east west corridors. Okay. Uh you know, of course, uh Highway 40 and Highway 70 that was only put in in the 1920s. Before that, it was Mexico Road, which was the the main east west that of course went to Mexico. So, all those pioneers that wanted to go, you know, to central Missouri could go that way. Uh down at the bottom, you see Highway N, that's the old Boonlick Trail. Okay? And even 94 before it goes south uh uh towards Martha'sville uh basically was east west and then continued out all the way to the Boonlick up on the top. That's highway P today, but that was the Salt uh Salt River Road and it went all the way up north to uh Salt River and was Pike County or or RS County. I'm not sure which one, but anyway, that's uh you know, historically we've had all these east west um we've had all these east west thorough affairs. Then um we went ahead and got the voters approved the the tax to do the um the roadboard. And what we needed was people in St. Charles weren't headed west, they were living here. And then not only needed to get St. Louis out here on the east west, but they needed to go north and south to get to their neighborhood. And this just gives you some idea. These are all the roadboard projects the last 40 years. Uh the ones in blue are are already done. The ones in red are planned uh including the Lake St. Louis Boulevard if uh if

you all decide to proceed uh with that. So when you connect it the the roadboard projects with the existing roads this is what uh this is what we have and you can start on the on the right hand there that first one that's Elm Street in St. Charles and the next one is Freriedman's Road and the next one is Zumbell Road and then you got Youngerman Road and uh I'm not sure what the next Mid Rivers and then Highway 79 and then Highway K. most of which that was the one north south that that's been here the longest. Uh but we've made improvements to that. Uh the next one is uh Gee, what would that next one be?

Yeah. Okay. Yeah. uh Brian uh Brian Road. And then the next one, of course, if you look up at the top, you know, you got Guthrie Road. It crosses Highway 70. Of course, we couldn't build a bridge across the lake, so it had to go around the lake, but then it goes south on the other side of I 64 to connect into um what is that? Uh Highway D when we get the last section there, which is Lake St. Louis Boulevard. So, whatever you decide about Lake St. St. Louis Boulevard, uh, you know, I guess what I'm saying, you you may delay it, but it's something we need to do. It's something we need to do eventually. Um, because um, all those people down Highway D, it's just going to be a whole lot easier for them uh, if if that connection is made when they need to go north south. And then of course, you know, we're going to have in the future we're going to have uh have to do the same thing as we go west and more more uh subdivisions are built and and again that people need to need to have those north south uh connectors. Um and this just shows you the same thing and you know kind of lays out the things. So, I know you're you're wondering, well, you know, why do we do this or why do we do that or why why did we come up with this idea in the first place? That's why uh that's why because we wanted another and that will you know right now it's it it's not going to get as much um usage as it will in the future. But as more de development goes on in that area, uh uh I think we need that connector in in in the long run. Now, you know, we put it in there because we're we're supporting it. Uh

you'll have a debate and and you'll do what you'll you'll do. And um I uh personally, if if you if you don't want to do Lake St. Louis Boulevard, I suggest we take the money and uh and put it towards Highway N and try to get that uh give it to MDOT and hopefully get that project finished. But we we have $22.5 million in the budget. I know. Yeah. I mean, how much do we need to That's what I prefer. Huh? What? How much do we need? Yeah. Hundred million. Is that the cost? That's Well, I don't know if Rob, what you you showed me some numbers. 100 million to get it to parade.

Yeah, that sounds and and and you had four possible. Thanks, Brian.

Yeah, four possible. Tell just tell them what you showed me today. Yeah, the um according to the MDOT estimates with engineering, rightway purchase, engineering, and construction, it was going to be between an 80 and $100 million project to get it from where it sits now to extend Highway N to Guthrie Road. Um I asked Amanda to also look at some other potential projects where we could divert money or push off projects a little bit and move money. And they included Dire Road, Lake St. Louis Boulevard, Interstate Drive extension to T and the I70 North Service Road to Zumbel. Uh and with those projects, we could uh potentially put 68,574,000 towards our share, which would be 50% of our billion,

Rob. Uh 68,574,58. and our one that that I've been in favor of for at least a year is the service road out here on uh on I70. I I think we can do without that. It's much more important to get this uh highway in finished. That's no one in my district or your districts ever evening brought that up to me. Yeah. Why why it's not built? Well, nobody asked because nobody really cares about it. be honest.

I saw it um on uh what's up St. Charles or something like that. Somebody mentioned and they had the picture of I70 and they said that this was uh something that was going or where was it? They didn't know where it was. It was something that had been approved a couple years ago. They would do what they did between uh fairgrounds and 94. It would just be that same sort of thing between 94 and uh Zumbel Road, right? So, it would be it would be a safer thing for on and off, but but quite frankly, uh, compared to the growth in the western part of the county, I think I think that money could be better spent out.

I totally agree. It's just I I asked Amanda about it because it came up to me that, you know, where is it? You know, somebody in the community wanted to know, oh, this was promised a couple years ago. Where is it? So, I mean, if if that's what you want to do and you want to delay that project, that's fine. Now, then you need to decide whether you want to do with with uh what Mr. Baker wants to do with it or or or something else. Well, let me let me let me bring up let me bring up something. The I70 stuff is already out of the budget. So, right, that's not in there to move. Just I just wanted everybody to understand the I70 is out already. It's already taken out.

So, if 100 million is what the cost is, well, our our share would be 50 million. All right. But you just said 68 million. That's how much the these projects could divert. Yes. Everything that he just mentioned got moved. Well, I'm just saying I don't think we need to to do half of it, but whatever. Yeah. And you know, paying for a $650,000 soundwall, which is I understand a mod responsibility, but they're not doing it versus 50 million for a mod project that they're not doing it because they're sherking their responsibility. I mean, I have a little bit of heartburn with that. I mean to in reality we shouldn't be paying for any of it. We are

that's the important part and and as if if if if it's needed fine but my prediction is if we went and looked at a whole bunch of other situations similar to that they would need it just as much or more. Are you talking Soundwall or Yeah. Sound walls. Okay. I mean, you know, you know where um Mark Twain at Mark Twain subdivision, all those houses are right there their backyard's right up against the against the service road and then there's a six lane instead of a four-lane road and then there's another service road on the other side and then like uh St. Charles Hills uh they have the same thing. So

my my question is if we if we do what you want to do for that one section, are we going to have to then do it for everybody else that's similarly situated maybe and if it was our if it was our road it'd be one thing but it's MDOT's road and but I I don't know what the I don't know if if those examples you mentioned compare to I only I'm only familiar with my my sound these people have 80 they did a decel reading out there 89 9.9. There wasn't even rush hour. I know. I mean, 85 you get hearing loss. So, I mean, you know, you know, people can say, well, they they they bought there. They knew there was a highway there. They didn't know it was going to be that loud. I mean, nobody looks at at at a house.

Do they think it's getting louder? It's absolutely getting louder from because because there's more people. There's more traffic or more traffic. Yeah. I mean, yeah, but 5:00 it stopped. Well, but at about 9:00 it speeds up because there's, you know, we'll get we'll get some we'll get some numbers and and you all can make an intelligent decision on this. We just want to make sure that you understand if if you do what Mr. Baker wants to do and he's doing a good job of representing his constituents. But but if if if he if you do that, it's going to be hard to explain why we can't do it here, here, and here as well.

All right, let's get Mr. Hollander's feedback and Mr. Brazle. I I reading what I have read on the news and all mod's explanation of this is really pretty crappy. The study was done in 200 134 13 that's 10 12 years ago and that road was pretty new. Now with uh the count the county growing by 40 or 50,000 people since then. I'm sure that study if they would compare to when they did it then and when they do it now be far far different. You don't think so? I can't do a study. Yeah. Explain how it works.

She can come up if you like and explain the details. My understanding is is u the the formula that they use this area qualified in terms of how close it was how loud it was and how loud it was. But the co the the uh the houses are so far apart it means the wall gets so expensive per house that they have a um and I don't care about that analysis that's on I'll let I'll let Amanda Hey hang on hang on before you before you do that Mr. Brazzle wanted to say something go ahead pull that mic up if you would

I was going to say a couple things on the Lake St. Boulevard. Um I'm not so sure that's so important or not. I mean, we're talking about an area that's supposed to be three and 5 acre lots and it's a boulevard going to nowhere. Um is it needed in the future? Maybe. I don't know. But I do know that everybody in those subdivisions don't want it. I know that for certain. The other thing is is what Tim's deal is is is on the wall. Those a lot of those folks live there and then they built the highway, right, Tim?

I mean, no. Yeah, they those homes were there before the highway. Yeah, those homes are there. And so when we have this kind of growth and we have these necessary highways that are built, it's kind of like it's really shame on the lobbyists that don't that in Jeff City that doesn't require MDOT to put these soundwalls on because you're totally screwing these people over. Totally screwing them over. And they didn't buy it knowing there's going to be a highway there. Then all a sudden there's a highway just like the the creek things when these houses are falling into creeks. There wasn't this much growth out here. And I know we don't have a sword district but still it's like there's some obligation due to from government due to the growth and so this is a little different I think the sound wall thing more about.

So so first of all only two of the people that live there now lived there when the road was built. I don't care if I'm just saying if she let her hang if you move next to a house and these people start to play the drums at night you have I mean you don't expect that but that happens. These people didn't didn't buy this house expecting the noise.

A fourlane road highway. I I mean I'm I'm get it. I get what you're saying, but okay. So, noise studies. This is how they work. Um it is a federal requirement and a federal guidance. There is MDOT follows the these rules that are set out. These rules change every so often, but not very often. Um currently the rule is a little bit different than it was when that wall was built. And I actually went back and recalculated and the wall does still not meet the requirement. So the first requirement is a reasonleness requirement. No. Yes. A sorry a reasonleness requirement and that is is the noise over the level that makes it a required like it's 60 65 dB. No it's 71 dB. And once that is once it is shown that it is over that you must have a wall that's under 18t high that will reduce it by at least seven dB. Okay. So they met they met that requirement. They were over the threshold based on a model like it's all modeled because obviously the road is in in place when they do this and they don't ever go back out and measure. So that's I kind of some people kind of disagree with that but that's how it's done.

It is what it is.

It is that is what it is. So this the next requirement is a feas a feasibleness and the feasible is is it a certain amount does it benefit an a certain amount of receptors per square footage of the wall. It used to be a cost but now it's a square footage. I think it's 13,000 square foot per benefited receptor. So each home is a benefited receptor. The wall that you have to build for this location is twice as much is as is allowed. And that is the problem. And these are all over the county and all over St. Louis County. There are people along 270 that would love soundwalls. There are people along Paige Olive Connector that would love soundwalls. I worked on that project. I was the soundwall designer and I had to go to court over it. They didn't win. They the county was sued because they didn't put a wall in and the county followed every requirement and that is what saved them from being sued. So that is my concern is that if we start doing this, we're going to have to do this everywhere and that doesn't seem like a good idea. And furthermore, the road board

was very much in not did not favor this because we typically build roads for areas for communities, not for 10 homes. We don't build local streets. We build connectors and highways that like benefit thousands of people. Yeah. We also give money to Augusta do to do overlays and and slams. A lot of visitors and a community that hasn't had any money in years. Yeah. And ever. Augusta, by the way, Augusta hasn't ever taken any money. They have not. Not in my 25 years. Yeah. Cuz I was on the road board when we came. What was it like 10,000 or something? I don't I'm not saying but whatever.

I think that's actually Wasn't that actually in the roadboard proposal that 10% of it had to go to rural areas or something like when this thing was put together 40 years ago, they tried to make sure that everybody had something in it. In fact, Wentzville Wentzville didn't have anything in it, so they went ahead and built what became Wentzville Parkway. They built it out in a cornfield there. There was nothing there. Dave remembers that, I'm sure. Well, real quick on the sound wall, they did they did a dustable study at the Soundwall that was constructed off Guttermouth Road, the the off-ramp,

and it was 51. So, and there's there's new homes there. I don't know if there's villas or whatnot that's right there on the offramp. So 51, they get a sound wall. 89, these people don't. I mean, I I know feasibility, I understand that. But explain that to the the people that live down there. They don't care. I mean, I feel for them. I do. I I understand. I have to be objective. That's my job.

So, explain to me what are what are the expectations of let's say Mr. Baker gets the soundwall built in that area. What are the expectations those people should expect if they did have a sound wall? Would it solve their problem or would it move the problem? It would reduce the sound. It doesn't move the problem. It would reduce the sound level not to 56 dB. I'm I'm not even sure how that's feasible anywhere. It would reduce it to around 60 likely. Maybe a little more than that.

Okay. because I have an area over by the guttermouth exit that is very similar to Mr. Bakers and Mr. Grizzu and the mod engineer uh Andy and I all went out there and everything that Tim has talked about on the news is exactly the same thing. I mean, you can't use their backyard. It's It's loud as it could be, especially when the little, you know, suicide junkies come riding along on the motorcycles just and it just cuts through uh your house. You like that, do you? That's my built-in sound effect. So, it sounds just like that. It's really annoying. So, if you're standing in their backyard, obviously, not a Harley.

No, not a Harley. Harley's probably better than this because a Harley is a different sound. Um, but Andy had said when you if you did build a sound wall there that the sound works like water and it'll hit that wall. It'll go over the wall and while it'll give those people relief, it will create a problem now for the people who don't have a problem behind them. They are all of a sudden going to get hit with all this sound that they didn't have before. to where you're you've got um four to five houses right next to the road now. That's really bad. You were going to dump that in and you would have 20, 30, 40 houses that were going to be affected. Is that fair?

Yes. Especially if they sit higher. Yeah. Yeah, that's fair. All right. Yes, sir. Mr. chairman, for for whatever it's worth, I don't remember how many years it was, but long before the the road was built there, John Gryu and Gary Elmstead went to the Cottoville meeting when the developer of those homes that we're talking about in your in your district here, right?

Uh not Mr. Bakers. they they were there before, but when they were being developed, they went and told Cottavville that they need to require the developer to have a a wider uh swath through there so they wouldn't have this problem. Uh but, you know, of course, the developer didn't want to do that and and instead of the Catville listening uh to people who knew something about roads, they they listened to the developer and they put it where it is. But they were they were wanted them to move the whole thing back. I don't I forget another 20 yards or so, something like that. So, so it it's an issue that that uh that the county was aware of from the beginning, but we didn't have control over that area. It was in the city of Katavville and they're the ones who let the developers build uh closer and now there's a problem.

Okay. Yeah. While we have you up here. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So, we're talking about needing $50 million for the highway end. Okay. Uh let's say that we come up with that money. Okay. How much does that speed the project up? Because right now there's two problems I see. One is the amount of money and probably more important is the time frame of when it can get built. So,

I I know it would speed it up at least a year because I know MDOT doesn't have funding available until 2029 and we could get it in 2028 if they're they're finalizing preliminary plans in February or March and then they'll move on to rideway plans. I think right ofway is our or you know just we don't know we don't know what's going to we don't know how much ride there is a good amount of ride right away it depends on how easy people are to work with how many parcels have to go to condemnation and that can hold up the whole thing I know Steve has mentioned design build I love the idea of design build we have a good concept I I think a contractor would just kind of stick with what we're doing and maybe build it cheaper somehow um using innovation that they can use. Um, but that ride ofway has to all be secured before that can happen. So, in that case, it may not speed it up. So, I I think 2028 is very very feasible. I think 2027, if things really go great, like we could maybe get there, but it we'd have to have a lot of things go our way.

Is there an area you would start one one end or the other or start in the middle and go both ways? Uh, has that even been looked at? Designers do traffic control later in the plan set. So, I don't think that's been looked at yet. They will kind of I think the intent well how they're designing it right now is to leave the two lanes in place that are being built from and then build another two lanes to one side or the other going back and forth. So, it's not it's not an even like two on each side. It's kind of goes back and forth because of different things. Um, and then just kind of move traffic that way. It's going to be painful. I would assume it'll be a little bit painful though.

One more one more question. Dave, yeah. Which uh one of these items on Josephville Road is for taking out that curve. Is that the 1.4 million? Um, I don't know. It's It's phase one. It's Joseph Road phase one. It has it also has federal that project has federal funds. There's no phase one. It's Josephville Road. Josephville Road phase two and three. So it's uh is it the one that just Joseph Road? It's on It's on page 166. 166. Yeah. Just Joseph Road. Yes. Yes. Yes. A million450. Yes.

The 1.4. Yes. That's it. Well, you could have that money. I'll take it. Yes. And I I I kind of belabor the point, but if we're going to be donating, not donating, we're going to be contributing $50 million to this or donating. It's kind of how it feels. If put it this way, if we don't donate the $50 million, okay, uh it does the project stay on the same timeline and we don't pay the money.

They would build little chunks at a time. They would in 2029, maybe they come up with $20 million. They build Hawks Ridge Trail to Summers Road and then we continue and it'd probably be like every five years. So we'd get, you know, it No, it would be okay. It would be pe piece together. It would be peacemeal over a long period of time. Mr. You know, again, as long as I'm here, I we're not paying $50 million to speed it up one year, right?

But, you know, depending on how much we can speed it up will determine. There there's another issue here. And I've talked to uh several of the mayors uh about this individually. Um I I talked to East West Gateway and complained about the fact that the city of St. Louis gets more money per capita than we do. Yep. You're aware of that, Mr. Chairman. And and uh Jim Wild said it it's it's for one reason, and that's because on all these uh small projects, they don't ask for a bunch of small projects. They asked for one one project and there's a rule that says everybody has to get one project. Yep. Okay. Yep.

That's what we did to get a quarter of the cost for phase three of page, right?

And I guess, you know, we've never done that again, but they started doing it and have been getting more than I think more than their fair share. So, I've talked to the I've talked to the mayors about um if we could go ahead and all agree, all the mayors would agree that this year we would ask for one project and that is on Highway N. And then next year we would ask for one project and it be on 370 and Salt Rick River Road which is right in between St. Charles and St. Peters. So in other words, the the western folks would would get the money one year and then the next year the eastern end of the county would get it. Now, and again, we we would ask for more on one project than we would ask for or be able to ask for in several projects. So there's just a whole lot going on here. And um um it's something we're going to be talking more about. There's going to be several opportunities. I talked to Tom Blair just just last this uh last week. I told him the first money we put into this thing was in 2014. In 2014, we, you know, we here start asking you to give MDOT money to do planning and and environmental and all that kind of stuff. And now it's uh it's almost 12 years later. And uh this if this doesn't go on the master plan or go on the the stip uh next summer, I'm going to be very upset. But it needs to go on not for the not for 29, for 28 or 27. But stay tuned. It's it'll but it's something something we've been working on for a long time.

And I I mean the problem here is uh for the longest time I 70 was a bigger priority. Yep. Than than Highway N. Yep.

And now we got what we're hoping, you know, we're looking for on 70 and and in is is number one. So, I'm willing to to give in on some other things and and we can still keep working on the sound uh on the soundwall issue uh regardless of what you all decide to do with with with the money. But again, I I mean, I don't know. Um we can have the lawyers look at is there is there any way we can, you know, that the county can sue can sue MDOT? You're saying uh you're saying as far as you can tell they've they've done everything that the federal law requires them to do.

And can can the state can the people in the state to follow up on Mr. Brazzle's suggestion? I don't know. Can they can they pass something in Jeff City uh saying MDOT, you know, uh has to has to provide more money for uh for soundwalls. But the fact of the matter is most people, at least in growing areas like ours, we we like to take we like to take that uh that concrete and put and lay it down and have more roadway than than sound walls, but that's just my opinion. Would it be judicial to just put a line item in the budget somewhere along the line for sound walls and maybe fund it a little bit each year and then as they bubble up to the top? Is that something that

you know the thing I've I planted a bunch of shrubs in my backyard because I didn't like the view of my neighbors who wasn't cutting his grass and there was weeds and stuff. I I planted a bunch of shrubs that were five foot high about 10 years ago and now they're 15 foot high and and they're solid and and I wish the people out there had had done that. Uh I think by now they they wouldn't have as as big a problem. Now, you know, if we start now, it's it's going to take 10 years before the before the problem's fixed. But but it could have been it could have been fixed. And maybe we need to look more often when we do these road projects. It's It's relatively cheap to plant some shrubs instead of instead of doing the the sound walls.

All right. Any other thoughts on Lake St. Louis Boulevard? Well, I have more thoughts for Amanda since she's up. So, okay. Um, how much we I'm sure we make projects get delayed. I mean, right away acquisition, whatnot. So, every day we're probably making interest money, right? How much are we making daily or monthly or quarterly? I don't know how financing our our and well there's a two-part and is is all the money that that's uh anticipated to be collected in 2026 is this all all encumbered funds in the in the current budget? No. How much is not uncumbered?

I'd have to look. I think there's I think I have like 30 million rolling over at the end of 2026 because I put money for route in in 2020. Your money is budgeted every year and any role that you have from one year to the next is allocated in the following year's budget, right? You're pretty well budgeted out. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I budget out through my three-year tip, but there I get what you're saying. There is money sitting there and every year they give me the interest for last year and tell me what the number was but I don't know what it is like how it's

and every every year there's projects that aren't being completed because we're doing that which is fine. I understand that but are we serving our citizens by not trying to obligate more money to encumber all the funds or anticipated funds? What what are you asking? Well, I mean so where are you going with this? Well, because I'm trying to find money for the soundwall and and sounds like it's there. Is that is that a Yeah, I I mean I it's I don't think it's a money issue. Although it may be more than what I estimated in that thing because I didn't estimate like for somebody coming out like you know the mobilization and stuff. I just did a square footage and a cost but anyway. Yeah.

And I budget and you know I put 650 and I think a 100,000 for engineering and sound study is probably high. Yeah. Yeah. So, um that that was just my question is how much is unencumbered? I mean how if well if we get 100 million a year and we only budget 70 million what's that the the 30 million is the unencumbered? That's the question I'm asking. It's it's encumbered though in future years because every year we work for a three-year tip. So it's you can Well, go ahead.

Okay. I like you know I'll come let me go over here. So in in the 26 budget on page 162, you will see that there was an estimated fund balance at the end of 2025 of $15 million. Right?

All of that money except for $766,000 that you see which is left as an operating reserve. All of that $105 million has been rolled into a project plan that's part of the 2026 budget. So if you want to drain the the fund balance entirely to zero, then you've got $766,000 to to to work with there. Um where

does the interest take in account the interest that we're making on money that's not being obligated? So the way the interest works is that the county has one operating account. So Amanda's budget, your budget, finance's budget, everybody's budget, road and bridge, all operate out of one bank account. So the interest that we earn on our investment portfolio is allocated each month to the departments based upon their prora portion of the cash that we have to the total. So if a so whatever that department doesn't use they get their share of interest

they get their share of the interest each month. Okay their share of interest for 2025 is estimated to be $1.4 million. So it's all kept in one fund and it that those departments have an allocation inside of that fund. Correct. Okay. So So how do you have a transportation? We have a half cent transportation tax that's included in the entire county budget. Yeah. So but we can use it for for per own

budget code 205 is is Amanda's department. Okay. All of the departments and all the activity for for transportation are in fund 205 that start around page 162 and you see the pages after that. Okay. We have one bank account and all the money goes in there. But when the money goes into our bank account, the half cent sales tax that we get for the month of October goes to her account. Okay. In her fund is track. Okay. And we track it. Right. So we we get a remittance advice from the state that says we have transportation, we have general fund, we have two of those, we have, you know,

and that that money is included in the revenue projections for this. Yes, it is. It's just not not line. There's no line item that calls it out. It's just for what? For the the interest that we and that's there is page 163 or 164 somewhere around there. page 164.

Halfway down. Interesting. Okay. Interesting. And and and and along that line, we had an actual actual 2024 of 3.2 and a estimate in 2025 of 1.4. Is that because money's getting obligated faster or or or what's what's the decrease? Well, that's an estimate. We we won't know we won't know until we finish the year out where we actually I know and our historic practice has been in most funds is to not recognize the income until the year has closed and that's why you'll see $1.4 million in the 25 estimate and $3 million in the year before.

But why would you estimate it at 1.4 if the prior year was 3.3? Wouldn't you estimate it at that's just based on that's just based on current current trends and I wasn't involved in the formulation of that number so I really can't tell you. Isn't that just called being conservative? We yeah I mean we and yeah we take the conservative route and we don't recognize interest income like that until the year is closed and we have everything all 12 months.

Okay. And I will say that my budget in particular is my estimates are on the low. My estimates of money going to the cities are on the low end because if I don't roll it over to 2026, I don't have it available in 2026. But if I do roll it over, it's still available in 2025. So I'll make my numbers all match at the end. I won't give any city more than they need, but I'll go with the estimate of what I've already spent knowing that more is going to come in by the end of the year. Usually the cities don't ask me for their last reimbursement until like March. So, they're all done and I'm scrambling to try to fix the tip so it has the right numbers.

So, next year when you see my actuals, they'll be much higher than what's in the budget right now. Anybody have a question for a minute? Thank you. Okay. So, Mr. Baker was asking about moving the money from Lake St. Louis Boulevard. Um, does anybody have heartburn about that? Can we move it out? You talk about post pushing it out to 2027 or something, 2028. I I'll go for a recommendation that we can talk with finance about how we want to do that. But um Joe, you good with pushing it out? Yes.

Yeah. All right. Yeah, I I support it, too. Yes. Okay. Um next topic since that took 50 minutes. Um any anybody want to talk about anything besides Lake St. Lewis Boulevard in the in the budget. Well, Mr. Bigger's up again, I guess.

Okay, let's go. So, uh, last year in our budget, we had I'm trying to find my notes here. Bear with me. Oh, page 158, we had storm water replacement at we spent 7.9 million and this year it's 650,000. So, I guess my question is, we've got all these storm water studies, Cinnamon Hills, St. Peters, how are we just going to take these studies and put them on a shelf and just say, "Hey, we spent money on a study and now we're not going to do any improvements." I mean, I don't understand why there's no money budgeted for storm water, especially if we're if we've got storm water projects that being that that's being designed. I mean, you know, it just doesn't seem like makes a whole lot of sense. So, what's our plan? I guess my question Rob, do you know

are those numbers correct, Bob? Oh, where are they? What page number? 158. 158. 158. Storm water replacement. Yep. Correct.

What's that? I think the primary reason the number went down is the number was so high before because of the money we got for the heritage uh buyouts and that two and a half. Yeah, which we're not getting again. Well, but you you do the math and it's still not I mean we're still not equating if we take two and a half from 8.7. Yeah, that's that's part of the reason it's low. 6.2. We know what we were spending though before we got to extra money for heritage. Well, we were 320 and and 460 in 23 and 24,

right? So to go from 320, 460, get rid of those special funds that we got in 25. You're back, you're at 650, which is still $200,000 more than we were two years ago. Well, but we only got two 2 and a.5 million last year. Yeah, we got that from the state, but go ahead. Yeah, I was just going to say 650 is the amount that was requested by road and bridge and as Mike Mr. El mentioned, that probably is in line. What we can do is get you the detail of that 7.9 million that we're estimating for 2025, okay, to show you what that is.

But the still looking for an answer on we got these storm water studies. What are we going to do with them when we get I mean, we're going to get recommendations on how we address these problems that we have in my district. I mean, and and and this is again, this is a a quality of life issue with these folks where every time it rains, they can't sleep at night. And I I and I I'm still on uh believe that some of the problems and a lot of the problems that we have in this county is because we allowed home builders and developers to get away with very poor design and and uh so I I think we bear some responsibility and I I'd like to know again what are we going to do once we get those studies complete. I think part of the studies also included cost estimates. So once I think we're waiting to hear what needs to be done and how much it's going to cost.

Okay. Unfortunately, because I was told those were going to be done in November in time for the budget. Now I'm told it's not till March. So So now we have to wait another year to budget it to to know what we're what I mean we we should be able to get some idea at this point from those studies.

We could still put money in there. Yeah. I mean, I think we need to I mean, I just Next item. Let's go. Let's go somewhere new this time.

If I could ask a question. First of all, I want to really thank Mike and Matt. Matt particularly because you you asked all the same questions I wanted uh and and Tim to come up with some really good questions and for the staff to really do a good job explaining them. I have a couple that are kind of I think easy to answer. And on page six on fees, licenses, and permits, there's one called cost allocation for $3.47 million. Cost allocation of what? What is it? It's called cost allocation, right?

That's an in license and fees and permits. What? What is that cost allocation? Oh, go ahead. There's the master of cost. There we go. Um, so departments in county government like finance, HR, counselor's office are are are departments that uh is is another one, another big one that provides centralized services to all departments. So the the non-general fund departments like road and bridge transportation uh

parks parks is a big one. Um you know all those employees are uh are are supported by the general fund. So a number of years ago, probably 10, 12 years ago, we used to have a flat percentage of whatever your revenues were, we charge you 1% of your revenues, and that's what you reimburse the general fund for the support. It wasn't very equitable. And as our numbers got bigger, the 1% it got got bigger. uh it wasn't really u proportionate to uh a department like Amanda in transportation where there's only one or two employees, three employees and and getting charged 1% of of $50 million a year, right? So

good employees though.

We embarked on a new process, a cost allocation plan. So each year HR, finance, is those support departments, counselor's office all submit uh communications I believe is one as well all sub submit data on what their personnel did and what departments they supported and it's it's allocated on a on a pretty rigorous schedule. So in finance, for example, uh it's it's completed every year and I'm familiar with that one. All of our employees were ranked out based on the functions they have inside the department what departments get charged for those services. So um uh at at the end this cost allocation study takes all the costs of all the support departments and allocates those to their own department as well and we don't do anything with that but the remainder is charged in this cost allocation number that that councilwoman York is talking about. So that's a charge from the non-general revenue departments that comes back to the general fund for these non-general fund departments paying for the services they they receive from the general fund.

So So is that listed out on each of the other departments that you talked about? For example, yeah, you'll see a cost allocation expense in each of those other non-general revenue departments. Okay. So theirs is an expense. This is this should revenue revenue in the general fund. Okay, good. Thank you, Mr. Swanson. Maybe one more. Honestly, um submitted over 30 questions. They've all been answered and um I followed up with any other questions I had. So, I'm I'm content right now. It's good to know.

Content for answering all them so thoroughly. Mr. P, I was just going to ask what the uh on page seven, the federal land lease is a revenue source. Are we are they leasing something from us? The feds? It's um 3320 on page seven under intergovernmental revenue. Third one down. And it's estimated every year.

Yeah. It's my understanding that is flood grant money that we're receiving as a county. Just grant money. Okay. We're not they're not leasing anything from us. It's not recurring. It shows in here. Well, we get some, but it's not recurring in that dollar amount. Okay. Gotcha. Thank you, Mr. Baker. Am I allowed to ask another question? I just wanted to make sure everybody had an opportunity. Unless there's somebody else who has something that you want to ask. Oh, that's fair. I Yeah, I got yours. Go ahead. Got one more.

On page 372, the family arena, the revenue is projected at 10.4 roughly with expenses of 11.6. And and I sent this in the email, Joan. Thank you. But can we not get naming rights sold on that? I mean, the family arenas, it sounds great, but the only interest we've had in naming rights to this point have been pretty minimal. Um, but uh we do have an RFP that is in process right now. Perfect. to uh to hire a firm that would um solicit on a more u comprehensive basis and some people who are familiar with that field um uh you know to see if there's any prospects out there that we could

Good. I like that idea. Yeah. So, thank you. Okay. Other thoughts? I know you have more. Well, I'll let somebody else speak. I'm kind of with Mr. Swanson. I asked my questions. they answered my questions. So, I really don't have a lot to go back with right now, which is kind of why I wanted to submit those early and ask and kind of go through those. So,

this is this is one that's pretty much over with, but it was a uh under that same thing, page 372 on the family arena transfer from shuttered venue and then 2024 was 2.5 million and then we don't even have anything budgeted after that. What was that? Hello. It was co

Hello. when COVID hit, public venues like movie theaters, sports arenas, all shut down. Okay. So, the federal government came up with a a grant um that was called the shuttered venue operators grant. And the the grant consisted essentially of taking 60% of your revenues from the preceding year, you know, the the last full operating year before COVID. And and so we received 60% of our revenues from the preceding year, which I believe was somewhere in the area of about $3.3 million total. Um, we had this program going on with the with family arena of of things that we needed to do between the CARES Act money and the ARPA money and doing legacy type projects with with some of that money. So, the HVAC system, the roof, you know, a number of the parking lot, uh, number of things inside the building, um, uh, and outside the building. We're done with this ARPA money and the CARES Act money. uh the shuttered venue operators grant was was largely dedicated as $3.3 million roughly and that kind of went into the pot that helped cover the costs of projects that ARPA and CARES would not cover.

Okay. So, namely the seats and the video boards. So, um but that was a short-term project and that has been fully closed out now with the federal government. Closed out about a year ago. I saw that. But I just was wondering what that was. Yeah. Thank you.

And councilwoman, I will brag on Bob a little bit on this one. We got very short notice, like days to apply and he put that thing together, worked an entire weekend to make the deadline before they closed the portal. And it was sent out in wave. So, we weren't supposed to get nearly as much as we ended up getting, but it was his diligence on that and entirely that that gave us that money. So, we were really appreciative of the work he did on that. Excellent. Thank you.

So, um, I think and I appreciate the budget. I mean, we're not St. Louis County where we're we've got $80 million that we're we're short for. So, I appreciate every everyone's work on the budget, but at the end of the day, how conservative are we? I mean, how what at the I'm I'm sure we budgeted some some realistic I thought the number maybe was 10%. Yeah, it's about 7,400,000. I forget the exact number that we put aside to make sure and that's kind of our cushion. I tried to explain in this that statutoily we have to have a 3% emergency reserve. So we always have that every government. So what's that number? Uh do you remember what the

three million

3 million? So um but we then as a government ever since the recession have tried to make sure that we have a 10% on top of that and what that money is intended to do. You know in fact that was one question I think you all three asked in common is how how much can you guarantee our revenues are going to stay high enough to sustain the government? Well, we're virtually entirely dependent in the general fund on a a half cent and a quarter cent sales tax to run. So, we can't I mean, we're always dependent upon the spending habits of our citizenry. But that money is the money that we have that if we see the economy start to turn that we can then see we have to take measures such as any job that opens unless it's a critical function. we put on a no higher list. It's what allows us to pad that out while we figure out, okay, is this a temporary downturn? Is this something that we see ongoing? What do we need to do to stop this government from having a financial crisis?

We have gone into the reserve before uh back when Chuck was here. you guys. Yeah. And I know 10 12 years ago during maybe the 2008 recession because of co well 2008 I think. Oh uh the housing market remember yeah 2008 that was that was one of the worst recessions. Yeah. Um when when the recession hit in 2008. I started as finance director in February of 2008. And when the recession hit Steve was telling me boy everything was great till you got here. But um so with the

at this point at that point in time the county was not in the shape that it is now. However um a lot has changed in in the makeup of of our budget. And I I just to give you a little flavor for for where we are now. a 10% budget that we have or 10% of revenue um sounds like a lot of money and it's about $10 million. That's what we have had as a policy in our budgeting for a long time. Uh 25 years, maybe longer than that. Um, and one of the reasons we want to be consistent with that policy is because bonding agencies look at your at your policies. And one of the questions they ask us every time we put a bond issue out there, has there been any change in your in your budgetary formulation and policy that you use when you prepare your annual budget? We've always had a no for that question and that's a good thing. We've stayed consistent for decades. Um but when you look at where we are now, uh we hit a high in our fund balance in a general fund in 2022 of $40 million. That was postco and we went from 27 million in 2020 in 2020 to 40 million at the end of 2022 because all the car's act money that we got uh 40ome million dollars I think it was something like that um helped supplant some of our normal operating expenses. So, we we had a a one-time hit of money that helped us not spend money. So, that's where the the high is right now at the end of 2024, we're 37.7 million.

But when you look at and I think there was some discussion uh recently amongst the council members here, when you look at the last five years, that includes 2026. What page are you on, Bob? No, I'm not on any page. Okay. um the the cumulative pay raises because there were concess uh concerns about personnel expenses, right?

The cumulative pay raises in the last 5 years were 33 and a.5%. When you look at the annual raises that have been granted, the big one was in 2023 when employees got moved through the pay range for their tenure. The average pay raise that year was 11.5%. Okay. So, we've we've ramped up in the in the recent years here the amounts of of of increased pay and increased pay means increased retirement costs and our health insurance costs at the same time are certainly not going down. Uh they're they're going up by close to double digits if not double digits. So there are pressures on the general fund that we can't we can't look at the numbers and say, "Oh, well, we have $37.7 million at the end of 2024." I expect that the fund balance will probably decrease in 2025. I we we still have a ways to go and we don't have final numbers for that.

What's your estimate for the what the fund balance will be in 20? Well, you you see it and uh and I don't have it in here in front of me at the moment, but um you know, we're we're what is it? 29. 29. Okay. 29 million. Yeah, that's the estimate. I hope it's higher. Um but but we we have a situation where our sales tax revenues that that are twothirds of the revenues of the of of the county general fund increased at 13% in the last five years. Yeah, four years. I'm sorry. I mean, I personally feel good about the economy. I think, you know, it's humming right now and I I think it's I mean, sure, anything can happen,

but I would like to use some of that money. It doesn't have to be a lot, but to address some of the storm water problems. You know, Terry, how Terry's, you got an issue. I I residents had called me out to your district and I and they have flooding problems and the problem is that the home builder didn't put any inlets in the backyards. Councilman, I will tell you he got away with it. I will tell you, you're heading down a dangerous path if you start taking general fund money that supports the general operating structure of St. Charles County and develop and devoting those funds. It's a onetime deal

to to if you're if you're depleting those funds, they get spent one time. And as I just mentioned, our our fund balance is on a downward trend. So, don't mortgage your future with one-time projects out of the general fund. That's a caution I would I would noted.

Okay. Here's here's one thing I would I would point out to you that Terry and Joe were here when 8910 happened. Uh Dave and I didn't come on. Dave came in in January of 13. I came in in April of 13. The county was still recovering at that time. We still weren't back to what it cost us in 8910. We were still recovering from that. So, I understand where you're coming from and you look at these dollars. But for the folks who were here when they went through all that, you're going to understand why that everybody's gunshy about digging into that because if you haven't been through that type of budget trauma that everybody that the county went through, if you deplete that reserve and you have something like that happen, there is nowhere for us to go.

Well, how are we going to pay for city the city hall improvements of 18 million? How how is that uh coming? It's a bond issue. Bond is okay then. Can we do a bond issue for storm water? I mean you I know you don't want to, Bob. I get it. Uh but I mean we have citizens again that have flooding problems and and to just sit up here and say it's it's not our problem is an issue. Well, the only thing with that is Tim, you're going to have to figure out a way for people in the rural areas not to be quite a issue because we don't have we don't we have open ditches and three and five acres and we don't Well, not in every place in your district. I mean, I most of it I agree. Are we Can I ask a question? Yeah. Um 20 minutes.

Are we done on that page? Can before we go on, can I ask Oh, yes, sir. Uh Mr. Baker, you have talked to Mr. Wellenamp again about filing that bill on Yeah. I mean, it's I mean, it didn't get to the governor's desk from what I understand. It's on the governor's desk. I said it did not get to the Oh, it did not. No, it did not. So, I mean, yeah, it's probably going to be one of those things that we're going to talk about for a few years. And in the meantime, these people every time it rains, it floods cuz our ineptitude. I I'll commit to you that I'll do everything I can. I know you will. I do. Thank you. To get that to get that uh to get that passed.

Pull that mic up, Jeff. on page uh 223 parks and wreck. Um we have uh for the executive building we have renovations, windows and tuck point 1.3 million. Are you asking what they're for? No, we just tuck pointed this building what 5 years ago. You know what I was trying to remember that but it's actually longer ago than that. It's like seven. But that's actually not for tuck pointing. It's because the windows are starting to fail. Okay. It says tuck pointed on here though. So, so the windows, you're going to replace all the windows in the building.

I think they're getting close to needing to be uh replaced because you can stand there and you can feel winter come through. Mhm. Um so, it's affecting our heating and cooling as well. Okay. We can we can have u um somebody come and make a report on that. No, I'm not I'm I'm not saying that they're not donating replace. I was just asking because I remember we tuck pointed it just recently at No, you're right. We did do that. Scott did it and they did a good job. And then what's what's the joint venture for a million dollars? It's just all it says joint venture. Yeah, that's the henes um that you all passed last meeting. Okay.

Engineering for It's engineering for the building that we talked about, the education center. Okay. Okay. All right. And then uh siding. It just says siding 620,000. Where you at? Page 223 on parks and rack. That's ours. That's uh residing uh restrooms, composters, uh Klondike building uh out there at Klondike Park. Um numerous buildings throughout the Boone Home. So it we've lumped all of our siding projects into one sighting.

Isn't that that's we on the siding on the boon project. Wasn't that part of the hail damage talked about? We got a lot of roofs. The roofs look great, but not siding. The siding wasn't damaged. No, no, not as much as we'd like. So So the barns, the barns at Roma need to have siding put on them again. The barns. Did you say barns? And no, no, like our restrooms, our composters, all those sorts of things. So, there's composter sighting in there. Um, there's I think Quail Ridge maybe gets some siding. Um, there's a number of projects that are wrapped up into that that figure. Okay. And then Ryan, you got 2 million for land acquisition. Um, is that uh do we have any do you have anything earmarked yet or

we budget money every year just in case a good deal comes up? So, that's just sort of our placeholder. So, no, that's a good plan. And we're we're at 4,500 acres or actually we're over 5,000 now, I believe. 5,100 and something. I haven't got a I haven't got it committed to memory yet cuz you guys just passed the Does that mean we have to stop because your goal was 5,000? No, no, we're not quite there yet. Uh we're not quite there. But tell them how close what was it was like one 1,000th of a percent of the acre per person of St. Louis County. That's always been our goal. We are so close you can almost taste it. But what would that take? 6,000.

Oh, no. It's not quite that. I mean, I think if we got another 100 200 acres, we would be well over the the or the per acre person uh in St. Louis County. So, you're really close. You always want to have that contingency in there in case a good deal comes. Correct. And that's why we budgeted money in there just in case we get a really good deal. Okay. Good. Thank you. Yes, Pat.

One last item for discussion. Uh, Councilman, um, we kind of talked about it maybe on the side, some of us, um, but I know that I would like to see us have a grant writer. I know that each department spends an inordinate amount of time writing grants. Um, and I don't, we could probably use two, but I would start with one. Um, each department writes a lot of grants. Well, I know the city hired a grant writer and they were able to find even more money uh than our own departments could do just because they had that was their sole mission and they knew how to write grants. I know some of us have talked about it. Grant writing is is very very technical, very time consuming and if you know what you're doing, bang bang bang. But if you don't, it can take a lot of time. This this paid for itself. uh that this person paid for themselves and all the money that we brought in. So, I would just like to discuss and maybe find a way that we could put a grant writer in. Not that all departments wouldn't still be doing some because I don't know that one person could do it as much as as everybody each of these departments are doing, but uh just something to discuss.

Have you had that discussion? There are years in which we probably would have jumped on that, but right now I don't like that. Oh, it's on. Sorry. Sorry.

Uh right now grant availability is kind of at a low point. A lot of grants that in the past the federal government would have offered have been pulled back or at least there's been warnings. Um the ones that are growing are tending to be in certain of the um federal security areas and a lot of that is through East West Gateway STARS program which we already participate in and they they have the grant writer that works in that program. It's not that we're uninterested in it. I I think probably we need to do a little more study of it and see if this kind of eb and flow right now and uncertainty in the grant programs kind of

sure changes its character. Well, that makes sense. I don't want to hire somebody that's not going to be able to do anything. Um maybe keep us surprised and that's something we could look for for next year. I'll find out if any of the other counties have someone. Okay, that would be good to know. Thank you. Any other questions? I got a question. Um Ryan, um you thought you were done. What boat ramp? I That was I got on the second page now. What boat ramp are we going to refurbish? That's 750,000. A boat reh. What does it say? Uh where are you talking? Boat ramp utility upgrade.

Oh, that's the uh second phase of the Klondike uh boat ramp down there. Uh bringing in water and sewer. um better electrical service down there. Um right now we have like a pit toilet that's you know uh so it's it's upgrading the services down there as part of the uh that second phase of the the grant we got through the port authority number but it says you it says boat ramp that's why it's not a boat ramp that's just upgrades utilities but that's okay. Um

what about the uh uh the NEC what are we doing with that? I don't I can't find it on here. the NEC. We've budgeted uh that we're under engineering right now for two projects, two major projects. One for exterior improvements to the NEC, which is basically getting the uh the um camping area, the RV area up to code with water and sewer and electric. Um we constantly blow panels and uh improving the parking lot, lighting, all that sort of stuff. That's one project that we're under engineering on. The second project is

Do you do you have a budget for that or just engineering? what uh that right now we're on engineering right now. So this will be this will cover the initial cost of the start of those projects. Um and then the second project that we're working on right now is the interior upgrades uh which includes everything from HVAC improvements. Um we have some structural steel that I can push my hand through um which is a problem. Um there's uh some upgrades to the horse stalls, some uh storm water issues uh regarding the the drainage out there. Um so the the interior uh project is is also under engineering right now. So that money that you see in there that that is mainly um captured in those projects.

Okay. As far as dog parks, are they used that much to spend $2 million on a dog park? Oh yeah. Oh. Well, now that you're talking the Numelly one. Yeah. So the Numelly is that's part of the Sundust Park preserve. That was about a hundred acre donation specifically uh donated for the creation of a dog park. That's the only thing it can be used for. Uh so the the family who donated that specifically put that in the donation agreement when they that's is that an additional 100 acres to the golf course we it's on the back side of the golf course. Um so remember when you went out there that I do kind of remember.

Yeah. Yeah. So it's specifically for that. And when I say you know to the it's budgeted for the dog park. It also hopefully will include construction for a roadway to get to that area as well as you know some of the other supporting amenities. It's not just creating a dog park. But to answer your question, yes, the dog parks are very heavily used and uh we get a lot of calls uh when they're not open. So, okay. And so, Riverides, that's our new park, right? That we just got the Riverside Oldsby Park. Is that our new one? Those are two different parks. So, Riverside Landing is up on the Mississippi River. That's our RV campground that we opened up in 2020. Uh then Oglesby Park is off West Meer Road out in West of No, sorry, Win.

So, what's the what's the $4 million you're spending on? It says development, but what's that for? At Oglesby. Yes. Yeah. Ogalsby is phase two development. So, we opened up uh the first phase of Oglesby back. It's been a couple years ago now. Um the person that we had bought the property from had a a lease on the property so he could go find a a new place to live. Uh so, that family has since moved out. We've taken down the house and now we're ready to complete the construction of the park which includes building a roadway through the park, adding a signature group shelter maintenance facility, and we've also been uh looking at uh the possibility of adding a open archery range. Okay. Yay. I'd say our health department is pretty healthy.

They better be, Steve. Yeah. Mr. Brazzle's finished. I was going to suggest that Councilman York might want to educate him on dog parks. We're kind of a dog park pioneer. How long ago was that? Oh, a long time ago. Most of the parks that worry are, Steve, are horse parks. That's why part of the uh part of the Nelly dog park is include including a large lake. Um it was specifically donated for like retriever training and so it's going to have a much bigger water body with dedicated water flow. So hopefully we eliminate the old blue green algae problem we had out at Bramlack. Um so it'll be a really cool dog park when it's all said and done. How do you access that that how are you going to access that part? Is it off of sneak road or or not?

I wish I could remember the road. Uh Forestell. No, it's Forestell is the main entrance to the park. Um so there's I don't know. Is it behind the park? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's closer to closer to Newelli downtown. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You go through New Melli like as you're heading west towards like Warren County and then you take a right. There's like a water tower kind of thing there. I don't know what that road is. You could probably name off a 100 roads and I don't know if that's the right one. Uh but uh there's a there's an old driveway that went down through there and so that's that's initial access. Okay.

And Councilman, I will tell you this dog park which was an entire donation to the county is a destination dog park. There's like one in Kansas and one in in uh Lancing, Michigan. And it's not only a huge benefit to our county, it'll probably draw some tourism to tell you the truth because there'll be retriever training area and then a very large open controlled um you know, more than what 40 acres that you're going to fence close to of open that they'll know their dog's in there. They better have pretty good control, but they'll they'll be able to let their dog run. I would recommend that you make sure that your dog comes back to you when they call you when they call you. Yeah, there's a little bit of training that needs to go on before you.

Very interesting. All right, any other questions? All right, with that we will wrap up um our budget work session for this week. We can do this again uh next Monday. Um and we'll take a break for the next seven minutes before we start our meeting. You're saying Mike next like next week? Next Monday. Okay, next Monday we're back. Remember we move our meetings first and

Okay. Short-term rental. Awesome. Good evening everyone and welcome to tonight's county council meeting, Monday, November 24th. Uh we will start off tonight with our invocation from Chaplain Billy Hawkley of St. Charles County uh Police Department and our pledge of allegiance from Councilwoman Patty York. If you would please stand and remove your caps. Billy,

may we pray? Heavenly Father, as we gather here tonight for this county council meeting, we have so much to be thankful for. We ask that the Holy Spirit guide this council with the leadership, wisdom, and grace to make the best decisions for all of St. Charles County residents. We ask God to bless St. Charles County, Missouri, and the United States of America. We ask these things in the blessed name of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Amen.

Amen. I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Thank you. May be seated. Please call the role. Councilman Swanson here, ma'am. Councilman Brazzle. Councilman Elim here. Councilman Hollander here. Councilman Hammond here. Councilwoman York here. Councilman Baker here.

Uh that will start us off with public comments. Public comments tonight are 3 minutes in length. We have a clock right there in front of Mr. Swanson. Um they will call your name when you come up. Um you have three minutes in which to address that topic. First

first speaker is Lester Neil regarding the Lake St. Louis extension. Good evening everybody. Thanks for letting me speak to you guys once again this week about Lake St. Louis Boulevard extension. Uh first off, I'd like to thank Alderman Baker for trying to reallocate money from the Lake St. North Boulevard project to an immediate need in his district. Um, an even better idea is taking all $22 million that you approved last November, uh, and giving it to other projects. The road's not wanted. Um, this road cost two and a half times what it takes to build the same mile somewhere else. And that's because of the terrain. Um, you had to approve, I think it was $160 million to just to study how to handle the historical artifacts that are in the way of the project. Um, it's just a bad place to build the road. Um, as Councilman Brazzle pointed out, subdivision residents don't want it. And he comes to every meeting that we have and we get 50 people, 75 people. that are just really to, for lack of a better term, pissed off that this road is going through. They don't want it. Um, the St. Charles County portion is farmland right now. I don't have a crystal ball, but I've been told that the trust that owns the land has no intentions of selling it. In fact, the county is still negotiating the rightway with them. So, there's no rightway for the St. Charles County portion. There is one for the Oalon portion.

Um, again, I don't have a crystal ball, so I can't say that with certainty, but I've been told by someone who knows the family that they don't want to sell that property uh to developers. Uh, not taking into account to any development on the St. Charles County Road. Uh, Steve Elman pointed out that subdivisions are going to go in there. The only subdivisions are in Oallen. There's only one road that will connect into the Lake St. Louis Boulevard extension and that's out of my subdivision. Um, I don't want it there because we have a problem with car clotting. Hopefully the police come in. It just gives the bad guys another road out. Uh, so that is a public safety issue. Uh, Mfallen's been working on a design for six years. They still don't have one that's finalized and there's still a lot of misinformation out there. I looked on the transportation oh I'm sorry the roadboard website today and St. Fallon's application for their portion of the tip money was uh still showing the road going along Curtis Lane. It's actually about 150 ft east of that, you know. So, depending on where you look, you get different citizens get different information on it and it creates a problem. Um, I would I was going to bring something to put up here and it's on a plat too big to put under the little reader. So, um, I appreciate your time. I wish each of you a happy Thanksgiving and, um, I know it's not easy doing what you do. Thanks.

Thank you, sir. next week.

Sean man regarding the Lake St. Louis Boulevard extension. Good evening, council members. Uh, thank you for the opportunity to speak. My name is Sean Man and I'm here to strongly oppose the proposed Lake St. Louis Boulevard extension and request that it be removed from the county's traffic improvement plan. Uh, so this project is an inefficient use of taxpayer dollars at the end of the day. It offers no proven traffic benefit and would permanently damage the local Preston Woods walking trail, existing homeowner values, a natural wetland, and a historically significant site. It would also cost county taxpayers $8.7 million from the halfsent transportation county sales tax that's on the county's website. And an overall the overall cost of the project is $22 million paid for by county funds, city, state, federal sources. Uh it's an irresponsible use of constituent funds given the lack of de demonstrated need. Uh beyond the strong local opposition to the project and irresponsible use of taxpayer funds. The actual study itself, the 2019 deer road and route DD location study used to justify this project is fundamentally flawed. Uh first it never considers a no extension option so it cannot determine whether the extension is needed at all. Uh second it claims that it will reduce congestion on route end or unsus un unsupported. Route double D is already overburdened not in great condition and not designed to take on more traffic. It this project would simply shift congestion and actually not solve it. Uh third, the traffic data is now six to seven years old, far outside of best practices and collected before major growth in this area of St. Charles County. Uh fourth, future traffic projections re future traffic projections rely on outdated models with

questionable assumptions and no updated trip generation analysis despite significant development. And uh even so, the study's own no build scenario uh shows that route uh doubled deer intersection operating acceptable levels through 2030 and only potentially needing improvements by 2045 without the extension. Obviously, this area has seen a lot of growth and uh deer and route double D that intersection there has become pretty uh dangerous just in itself. Um so in short, this project really provides um no meaningful benefit to the constituents, costs millions of dollars to the county and harms the local community and natural resources. I urge the county to remove all funding for this project and re redirect it towards higher priority county transportation needs as Tim Baker has already identified some. Thank you, Tim. Uh thank you for your time and service to St. Charles County residents. Appreciate you guys. Thank you.

Thank you. Rose Zuck regarding the Lake St. Louis Boulevard Extension.

Good evening. Hello.

It's pretty, isn't it?

It is. And I've seen other developments that look very similar, but I would like the council to stay with their R1B plan of 20,000 square feet per home. So that would be two homes per acre. That would make that a wonderful subdivision. My other one, Lake St. Louis Boulevard. This is things that uh Bill Carrier wrote up and I'm reading some of what he did. I know you all have his email that he sent was very well done. His recommendation, one of them was remove all at St. Charles funding for further design of the extension until a new traffic study properly assesses alternative no extension concepts to improve weight times and flow at the subject intersection. They're all pretty similar, but if you read the detail that he has, it it equates to each of his recommendations. Remove all St. Charles funding for further design of the extension until um turning counts and traffic volumes consistent with the traffic analysis industry's best practices. And I'm skipping remove all St. Terrell's funding for further design of the extension until a new traffic study accesses the no extension concepts to improve weight times and flow at the subject intersection and comprehensive route DD modernization and capacity enhancement studies proposed funded and completed. And I do agree and I like that Tim Baker is proposing to redirect funds to areas that he knows. And I know you've seen um news reports about sound walls for his area and I'm sure other areas needed as well and with flooding in certain areas.

And that's all I have. Thank you, ma'am. Next speaker, Amanda Bearer, Lake St. Louis Extension. Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. I have notes. I have not done this before, so forgive me. Okay.

Uh, councilman or council members, neighbors, and friends, I stand before you. I am a resident of St. Charles County, and I'm also an Army veteran of 26 years. The proposed extension of Lake St. Louis Boulevard would destroy a fair a forest trail that is far more valuable than pavement. This trail pro protects an underground spring, shelters wildlife, and preserves archaeological sites. It's a daily resource for families, the high school track team. Even our city councilmen walk this trail um pretty regularly, and my own children play in these woods. My family exercises there. Uh we take family photos there, and we find peace there, as do many other surrounding families and neighborhoods. This is not just a resource for Preston Woods. This is a resource used by Shady Creek. Um there's a whole bunch of different neighborhoods that come by and use this. Brierchase, um Country Shire. Um for me personally, it's where I I clear my mind after years of service. So this trail means a lot to me um and my family in my community. Extending the boulevard would bring noise pollution. It would erase natural habitat um and waste taxpayer dollars. We've already had a connection just minutes away. The project is unnecessary and irresponsible. I urge you to redirect these funds where they're truly needed, such as the long overdue overdue noise wall in District 7. That investment would improve quality of life without destroying what makes St. Charles County special. Let us choose preservation, community, and fiscal responsibility over needless expansion. Thank you.

Thank you. And I also wanted to say that I appreciate the sacrifice that you all make. I've been in the position before where there's not a lot of um a not a lot of thankfulness. Um and I do appreciate your sacrifice and I hope you all have a happy Thanksgiving. Thanks for your service. You too. Scout Barer, this is my daughter. Can I stand up there with her? Sure. Absolutely. You need to pull that mic down for her. Scout, welcome. Good evening.

Hello. My name is Scout Bargain. And why am I here? I'm here to save the Preston's trail. Why we use it is many different ways. We use it to run, have family time, and take pictures. All the animals will be sad if you cut down their homes. Thank you. Thank you, Scout. Good job.

Le Ping Wong Stewart regarding the Lake St. Louis Boulevard extension. So, good evening, council members. Um, this is my first time here also. Forgive me if I say anything inappropriate, but I try not to. So, um I'm

so fit in. Yeah. Here to speak against the Lex St. Louis Boulevard extension as well, but that was a tough act to follow. Correct. So, um I was just trying to keep my comment short. Uh because I live right next to this Lex St. Louis Boulevard, the street within Shady Creek. So from what I see the traffic problem they trying to solve by building the extension doesn't really solve any problems because when I come back from work I drive either from DD and get on somewhere and get to my subdivision or trying to get in but the traffic really starting to build up after you pass the Lex St. Louis Boulevard. So by building an extension going from DD to Lex St. Louis Boulevard it doesn't really do anything for us. Um, nevertheless, it's going to cost like $22 million. Like, let's say if you actually have someone sent over to look at Paul Rena Boulevard, which is why in the intersection of the Lexus Boulevard, the road is kind of falling apart. They have a lot of pothole, have cracks. They always have construction truck trying to patch up the road. So, we really even need those money beside building the sound wall that Tim Baker uh counselor Tim Baker is suggesting. We also need funding to fix some of the local road that is falling apart in conjunction with the Lex news boulevard. And I went to the um there was an open house at the uh day is it day part? Oh day old day park. Yeah. So I talked to the uh engineer there. They talk about uh with the flooding concern that we have. They have to build a bigger bridge to trying to solve that problem. So if we have to build a bigger bridge in the first place, they should recognize that was a potential problem to begin with. We're just trying to trying to fix and patch all this problem that is to me is non-existent. And with our all the residents here, we're trying to uh oppose against it. I know we've been coming for like few meetings now trying to express our

concern with the Lexos Boulevard extension. So I hope all the council member take that into consideration and I know you guys work hard and for the citizen of St. Charles County. So I just want to appreciate everybody with Thanksgiving coming up just take everything into consideration and hopefully you guys make the right decision for the local residents that lives there. Thank you. Thank you

Scott McBrady regarding the soundwall. Good evening, council members. Uh, I guess it's going to be the theme. I too have notes. Uh, I only found out about this uh, meeting just a couple hours ago when my wife sent me the news article uh, that, you know, the sound levels were going to be discussed, so I felt compelled to come and do this. Never done this before, so bear with me. Um, I live uh off of Paige uh near motherhood and uh we built our house back in 2015 so that our five children could be closer to the St. Joseph's parish and school. And back then it was quiet and peaceful. But over the years, uh the just general loudness has increased and increased to the point where it's almost intolerable on any given day. There are at least 60 instances of vehicles that go by that register at about 110 dB. Um, I don't have a calibrated meter, but it's close enough for me to understand it. Additionally, at least a couple times a month, usually at night, cars will go by that are so loud you would think a thunderclap had happened outside of your house. It disturbs our sleep. It disturbs our pets. It disturbs the quiet time. and it's only getting worse as, you know, time progresses. So, I support any effort uh by Mr. Baker or any other council member to help try to alleviate this. Thank you.

Thank you.

Martha Brown regarding the soundwall. Uh good evening. Thank you for the opportunity to speak tonight. Um, my name is Martha Brown and been waiting several years uh for someone to listen to my concerns regarding the Highway 364 traffic noise. Um, so I truly appreciate being here tonight. Um, in 2006, uh, my late husband and I built and moved into our our dream home, um, on Dunore Place Drive. We're neighbors of Scots. Um, we loved our we loved our home and the neighborhood and and planned to stay in the home forever. It was uh at that time it was peacefully surrounded by beautiful trees and um immersed in nature with deer and other wildlife in our backyard. Uh we just we just loved it. Um and then that changed dramatically when we discovered that the highway um 364 highway would be built literally in our backyard. Um so 7 years after we moved there, that's when the the highway was built. We spent over a year having sleepless nights because of them hauling dirt 24 hours a day uh for a year to build the the hill where the where the highway is located. At that time, we sought legal assistance and spoke with numerous MDOT local and state politicians and officials during this time to request that a soundwall be built along with the highway. But our requests were ignored. As expected, the noise from the highway was extreme. we could no longer sit outside on our deck or our patio because of the noise. Um, and we ended up having to spend almost $10,000 on some green giant arborites that at least block the view from inside of the house from from the highway. Um, we thought it would possibly cut down on the noise too, but unfortunately it didn't. Uh, the traffic noise has increased significantly over the over the years with large semitrs,

motorcycles, speeding cars with loud mufflers. Um, and especially this during the rush hour, it's it's terrible. Uh, we've called the Highway Patrol and Cotleville Police Department several times over the years to address the situation of speeding cars and motorcycle racing, which happens usually every Friday night, especially during the summer. Um, it's just it's very disconcerting that I I can't even carry on a conversation outside my house and sometimes even inside my house. The traffic noise is is so loud. um had I've had pictures fall off the walls. I've had my all my cats hiding under the beds. Uh my anxiety has increased significantly because of this um increased noise over the past years. Um sleep with a sound machine at night so I don't hear the loud noise that that Scott mentioned. Literally in the middle of the night we could hear loud, you know, loud mufflers and just motorcycles and it's really out in our backyard literally. Um, so in closing, my my husband suffered um from a long-term illness and he passed away earlier this year and his wish was for me to stay in our home as long as I was able. And this is my wish also. Um, so I appreciate your consideration to approve these sound walls um so that it would be an answer to my prayers and would allow me to to return to the peaceful um retreat that my husband and I built 20 years ago. Thank you so much and God bless you. Arie Dino regarding the consent agenda and police matters.

Good evening, Mr. Chairman, members of the county council. My name is RNC Acino, county public advocate, and I've got a lot of matters. I'll keep most of them for probably next week. But we have major issues of honesty, trust, accountability, responsibility of two police employees, possible fraud, scams, corruption, taking or stealing and embezzlement of our money. I believe former police and former police um there are some serious implement imple there's some serious issues here. There's information coming to me via variety of sources. County police officers, county uh employees, and others have confided in me and what's going on and a lot of the issues.

Arie, there's a current in Hang on a second. Internal affairs invest. Hang on a second. I stopped your clock. I just have a point of order question. Can he talk about county employees? I would say that the the public speaker needs to move on from something that is uh dealing with a confidential employment matter. We can't talk about actual employees names, Arie. You could you could talk about the police department, but you can't mention any names with any of our county employees. They're not elected officials like us. They're not in the public domain. I respectfully disagree with you because they have accountability and responsibility.

So sue me afterwards, but I'm no employee names, right? You can you can sue me after that. All right, you ready? Back to our regularly scheduled program. There is a current in-depth county police uh internal affairs investigation either being conducted or concluded. If you go back in time involving witnesses from state laws were violated, civil rights were trampled on an individual and our county paid out in a in a settlement to this individual. This is involving criminal cases. There are serious issues and serious possible crimes with several violations of police department promagated rules, regulations, and policies. I believe that the federal bureau of investigations, the United States attorney's office, the state attorney general, the county auditor, the state auditor, the county prosecutor appoint a special prosecutor to be impartial, and the impanled county grand jury shall look into these matters. I am hereby making a bonafideed and valid public information request under chapter 610.021 021 of the revis state statutes for the employment status of

yes quit mentioning names it's they're in the public domain that's a stuff he says true though I mean that's go back and forth length of length of service last paid salary and last day of work at the county police department I believe that we're at the point of needing to be to bring justice to our 435 5,000 county residents who are wanting and deserve real answers and accurate facts. There should be no coverups. If anyone has uh at the county police department has any information, please reach out and contact me. We the citizens have a full right to know all the circumstances. I demand 100% transparency.

Thank you for your the final speaker. All right, that wraps up public comments. That moves us on to oral report from the county executive. Um, well, Mike was gonna Yeah, you want Mike, are you going to do yours? Uh, do you want to do your presentation? I thought you wanted the chief to go first. Oh, that's right. I'm sorry. Chief's going to go first. And this is in response to the the issue that Mr. Brazzle brought up about the uh large parties Pardon me. Large parties. Yeah. About the large parties by teenagers. I I asked the chief just to do some research on on how many of those we've had in in uninc incorporated St. Charles County.

Yes. So I try we looked this up over the last we tried to go back five years. We got the last four years and we've had five of those large parties in the last four years. I know it's not that's as big as I can make the font. the spreadsheet, but um in those one in 22 uh the one in 24 and then three so far this year, two of two of those three were at the same location at a known problem home uh where we we deal with some juvenile issues at that home already. the uh the most recent one we dealt with was the one the same night the one in Fallon and uh there was uh summones written on all those for uncooperative adults and and so when we when we deal with these parties um it's it's a challenge for the officers when they get there because number one the kids largely scatter and uh you're going to get a lot of them scatter and secondly you got to get control of the party if they have alcohol involved we can't put these kids in cars and let them drive away so it's trying to get control of it uh it's not easy when you have two, three, four officers respond and there's 50 or 100 kids. U we're not really seeing an uptick. You know, for us it's only been five in in four years and that's what I would consider large parties like this. Uh in fact, the first one they were gone on arrival. But um our SRO's, you know, are really paying attention to what's being chatted about in school. Uh these kids are getting on websites and an app they actually have now to they hear about a party and they're just going to basically go take over the party. Uh we're not seeing a lot of it, but it's out there. It's a thing. They tend to do it around uh breaks, fall break. Uh we might see some on Christmas break and our SRO are certainly paying attention to whatever chatter is going on around school rumors and and whatever intel we can garner from the internet. So happy to entertain any questions from this.

Yes. So there, you know, the one the last one that we talked Oh, I'm sorry. the last one that we talked about that called John. Um there was compelling evidence with video and all that and I'm that I know it's not your jurisdiction. It falls under well that was a confusion too. It went to Lake St. Louis and it went to Fallon I believe. Well yeah it was an Oallen resident the residence was in Fallon police investigated it. Lake St. Louis police show they respond the assistant

and then and then because it's those pockets you know. Yeah. which just I understand that too. But um how long would you say I mean I did get the excuse and I'm going to say excuse that um well when juveniles are involved you know they're it's they're lying over the system and it's harder to do anything but when you have compelling evidence when they're ripping the countertops off the kitchen tables punching holes and walls breaking the TVs it's all on video jumping on the furniture destroying it with pure intent and then throwing stuff and hitting people in the face which causes physical damage and and stitches. That to me is a crime. No question about it. Correct. And so I don't believe there's been any arrest yet.

I don't I don't know the status of that investigation. I know many referrals have been made to juvenile reference the assault and some of the destruction of property. Uh again, we can't just arrest everybody. We have to put a name of your deal. I know. We have to put a name to the crime. I understand that. But the thing is is it's like the one of the exc I don't want to say excuses but one reason I hear that they have these flash mobs. I don't know if five is I don't know if that's accurate you know from that's our jurisdiction. Yeah

just our jurisdiction. So that's not lake St. Correct. So so that's that's not accurate at all is what I'm saying. There's quite a few. There were five in this region just this year from what I was I think you and I talked about that and one of them was someone you know that works for you. And so that's why this is more of a problem. And so I think that I what what happens is of you someone will call the police and say there's a bunch of kids at the house. Well that's the report. Two police cars show up and there's 200 kids or literally 200 kids right and throwing stuff doing whatever they're doing. And so the two cops I don't I understand they're just two of them. But then they can't really call out at uh 10:00 or 11 o'clock at night because there's probably not any more than two cops on that in that area.

That that's not accurate. We get more we get more cars there and from the surrounding jurisdictions. We all assist each other. That's what I'm asking. So I'm saying usually it's an initial two car two officer response and then it takes a few minutes to get other officers there to get control. So can we is that what we're doing? That's what I was asking you is when it's something that that dramatic or whatever you want to call it. Can you have a regional support like coming from Oallon and we do Wsville? We do. Well, they did it in this case, but I mean maybe they got lake they didn't call for they get all the help they call for and they they asked Lake St. Louis to assist and Lake St. Louis assisted. They didn't ask for county or they didn't ask for anybody else. I gota So yeah, we we'll get all the help we want. If we just keep calling for officers, we'll get all the help we need.

I think that this this one brought draw a lot of attention, you know, and I think that I would hope to think that there's a little more. I know you get it on both ends sometimes. You, oh, they're cops are being abusive to the teenager. I I get it. It comes on both ends. But this one, this was out of control. And you know that. Well, yeah. And the officers got control of it and then investigated based on the evidence that was presented to him and made I know multiple referrals to juvenile. And that's that's the extent they can do. Once they make the referrals to juvenile, then did they did they make the referrals to juvenile? Yes, they did. Okay. I don't know how many and I don't know what charges. I know the assault and some of the destructional property. Uh, but I don't know how many referrals they made, but they did make several.

Chief, what's the process at that point when they refer to juvenile? What what's the next step? Well, they get a hearing. They get a juvenile hearing, go through the juvenile process. Uh, it's like uh they they get a hearing. They're being charged with assault on the juvenile level and then uh you know, they get all the the due right. The problem for us, it's hard to interview and interrogate juveniles because you have to have the parent, you have to have a DJO. Uh there's more to it than interviewing an adult. DJO, a deputy juvenile officer. Thank you. So, and an adult again is 18 years or older. They raised the age a couple years ago. So, you get a lot of these 17 year olds that do adult level crimes, but they're really juveniles. Okay. So, and they get treated as such.

Any other questions for Chief? Yes, Tim. Chief, is there anything we can do as a as the legislative body to help you?

I don't really think so. We we have everything on the books we need. Okay. It's just a matter of getting there and getting control. Again, these these things aren't easy because again, over the years, I've broke up many of these parties and and the kids are going to scatter. That's what you're going to get. And that's it gets concerning, but you got to get control. You got to get a hold of parents. Uh again, we got to try not to put the kids in cars that have been drinking. Uh that's a challenge, but uh some of them are just going to run and jump in cars and go. Um, so it's it's not an easy thing. Even when you get, you know, 5 10 officers there, it's still not an easy thing. And when there's all the destruction of property, yeah, that's bad. We're trying to get a hold of homeowners and and find out who did that. But sometimes we can't do it that night. It takes the video evidence that always shows up on social media. So, are the parents liable at all?

Uh, yeah. We actually one of these we wrote uncooper on the last one uh in Dardian Prairie we wrote four summons to adults that were uncooperative with us that actually kind of knew the party was going on and and uh were you know not cooperating with the investigation. So okay so they can be question you chief Mr. Chairman unless you're really uh anxious to hear Mike I I think we'll hold him off to the next meeting. You've heard quite a bit from finance already today. You good with that, Mike? It's been a long time since we started. That would be fine. We'll let you take Thanksgiving off. How's that? All right. Anything more from County Executive? No, sir.

Uh, that moves us to consent agenda. Any items to be removed from consent agenda? Seeing none, I want to entertain a motion. Motion to approve. Second. Motion to approve and second. All those in favor? Any oppose? Uh that brings us to bills for final passage starting with bill 5439. Bill number 5439, an ordinance approving an agreement with the Missouri Highways and Transportation Commission for funding of safety improvements to reduce crashes on St. Charles County roadways.

Any questions or comments on this bill? Seeing none, please call the role. Bill number 5439, an ordinance approving an agreement with the Missouri Highways and Transportation Commission for funding of safety improvements to reduce crashes on St. Charles County roadways. Councilman Swanson, yes, ma'am. Councilman Barzel, yes. Councilman Elim, yes. Councilman Hollander, yes. Councilman Hammond, yes. Councilwoman York, yes. Councilman Baker, yes. You threw me off with that. Yeah.

Going back and forth there with him to me to him. I was I got lost. Uh, bill 5439 passes. It's Sorry, just had a random thought that I'm not going to share publicly. So, uh, bill 5440. Bill number 5440, an ordinance approving an agreement with East West Gateway Council of Governments to conduct planning services and develop a detailed vision and conceptual plan for the Missouri Great Streets Route and Corridor in St. Charles County. So before we go forward, I'll tell you this bill includes a revised termination clause in exhibit A. So just needed to put that as part of the record. Any questions or comments about this? Seeing none, please call the role.

Bill number 5440, an ordinance approving an agreement with East West Gateway Council of Governments to conduct planning services and develop a detailed vision and conceptual plan for the Missouri Great Streets Route N corridor in St. Charles County. Councilman Brazzle, yes. Councilman Hammond, yes. Councilman Elim, yes. Councilman Hollander, yes. Councilwoman York, yes. Councilman Baker, yes. Councilman Swanson, yes, ma'am. Bill 5440 passes. That gets us to bill 5441. Bill number 5441, an ordinance approving a cost share agreement with Missouri Highways and Transportation Commission for participation in the commission's cost share program. Any questions or comments? Seeing none,

bill number 5441, an ordinance approving a cost share agreement with the Missouri Highways and Transportation Commission for a participation in the commission's cost share program. Councilman Hammond, yes. Councilman Elum, yes. Councilman Hollander, yes. Councilwoman York, yes. Councilman Baker, yes. Councilman Swanson, yes, ma'am. Councilman Brazzle, yes. Bill 5441 passes bill 5442. Bill number 5442, an ordinance approving execution of a congestion mitigation and air quality agreement with the Missouri Highways and Transportation Commission to coordinate the participation of St. Charles County in the cost of the commission's public improvement for arterial management interface for the roots

for the Sorry, didn't mean to cut you off. Any questions or comments on this bill? Seeing none, please call the role. Bill number 5442, an ordinance approving execution of a congestion mitigation and air quality agreement with the Missouri Highways and Transportation Commission to coordinate the participation of St. Charles County in the cost of the commission's public improvement for arterial management interface for the roots. Councilman Elum, yes. Councilman Hollander, yes. Councilwoman York, yes. Councilman Baker, yes. Councilman Swanson, yes, ma'am. Councilman Brazzle, yes. Councilman Hammond, yes. Bill 5442 passes. U wrapping us up with 5443.

Bill number 5443, an ordinance authorizing the execution of an intergovernmental agreement and other related documents between St. Charles County and the St. Charles City County Library District and furtherance of the creation of the Heritage Museum archives and local history genealogy center. Anybody want to ask Ryan questions? Seeing none, please call the role. Bill number 5443, an ordinance authorizing the execution of an intergovernmental agreement and other related documents between St. Charles County and the St. Charles City County Library District in furtherance of the creation of the Heritage Museum Archives and Local History Genealogy Center. Councilman Hollander, yes. Councilwoman York,

yes. Councilman Baker, yes. Councilman Swanson, yes, ma'am. Councilman Brazzle, yes. Councilman Hammond, yes. Councilman Elm, yes. Bill 5443 passes. That wraps up bills for final passage. On to bills for introduction with 5444. Bill number 5444 requested by Michael Harurbert. Sponsored by Mike Elim. An ordinance amending sections 500.500 500.510 500.520 500.530 500.540 and 500.550 of the ordinances of St. Charles County, Missouri to update and amend the property maintenance code of St. Charles County. Any questions about this bill? Can I ask a question? Yes, ma'am.

This is bringing us up to 2021 codes just like everybody else. Correct. Is anybody What is the most current code? Is this it? 2024 is out. I'm sorry for the multitudes watching at home right now. Sorry about that. Mrs. New York. Uh so right now there is the 2024. It's out and published and they're currently producing the 2027. So it goes in threeear cycles. Okay. So we adopted the building code uh 21 and this is the property maintenance that's coming behind it to tie in with that same adoption. Okay. Y

but it looks like we're consistent with everybody else's still on 21. So that's correct. It's not an issue right now. Correct. Yep. Okay. Mr. present. Um, Richard, when we talked about this, um, remember we worked on those farm houses that were getting written up that when someone buys a couple hundred acres, there's an old beat up house on it and you guys are writing them up and all that. And so, we stopped doing that, right?

Uh, specifically on what what was it? The transfer of ownership are you referring to? We we changed it so they so that these houses that were people were like Dearberg for instance he was buying that ground and and just to have a he's got 3,000 acres and he keep buying at the farms and there be an old farmhouse on there in the county to go ride them up which it would make sense that he's not doing anything with these farm houses anyway. So we put a a uh like where you can write them up as not disconnect electric and they're not inhabitable so there's no county code violations. Remember that.

Yeah. Uh quickly uh for the group, uh Joe's referring to a transfer of ownership uh that goes into place in the county when someone uh changes over a house that has a septic system. It's required to be inspected by our department. When that happens, it was creating an issue which was forcing people to fix the house even though they may not need or want to fix it. So we we put in an amendment that you're speaking to a byproduct of that that came out as the vacant building index. Is that what you're referring to?

Correct. Yeah. Okay. So, you would and and because when they go out and inspect the septic, then they'd inspect a bunch of other stuff and and then and they don't the tent was never to use the house. They just want the ground, but they didn't know if they want to tear the house down because they might want to restore it. It's an 18,800 house, but they don't want to restore it right now. So, they just want to put it on pause, so to speak. So, we did do that, right? Yes, that's correct.

My next question would be, and this may not have anything to do with you, Joanne, you might know this, but why would someone have to pay taxes on those houses if they're not being used? like if it's a vacant house, if the electric's disconnected, why would they be paying a residential house tax on that? I mean, and maybe we've never considered that, but it really should be considered because um I believe that there are a lot of people that are getting stuck with t property taxes on houses that are just not maybe not being inhabitable, but they're certainly not being used. And so, they probably should be exempt from taxes as well. So, I think microphone, please. talk about that.

So, I think the current status on that, remembering back a number of years ago, is is that the house and an acre around it on farmland is taxable as residential. And just because someone like the home next to me in a subdivision at one point sold and the there was nobody in it for over a year, it was still taxable on the books as residential. So, I think unless um the house is torn down, it would continue to be taxed. Is there is could that be is that a city or county ordinance or is that a what is that? Because Yes.

Yeah. Well, is I mean it's under state statute on on on reassessment and it says fair market value, right?

So, you know, uh if it's if it's people aren't living in it after a while, it's going to deteriorate. It's going to be worth less. But but you know again the taxation's based on what it's worth uh on the fair market value and to change that I think you'd have to go to Jeff City. Yeah. Because the way I would look at it is you're if you're bought a farm and you bought an existing property next to it that and that house is vacant. They're using zero services because you're they're living in the house next to it. There's no s police, no fire, no school, no nothing. So they really shouldn't have to pay taxes on. But you're saying that that's not a county issue. That would be a state issue.

That's a just like I've never had kids in a public school. I still pay public school tax for the last 32 years on this house and for the 20 Well, I would agree with you that you should be exempt. I would agree with that.

Yes. Okay. Well, anyway, Mike, I I was thinking um I as me and Mike talked about this. Um this is pretty long and complicated. Do you think that first per there should be maybe a work session on this? Maybe a half an hour or something just to go over some of these changes because um there's a lot of language in here and a lot of things that were changed. Um like you can get wrote up for noxious weeds. Okay. And I'm not saying I disagree with that, but if that's the case, the county would be getting tickets all day long on their on their Johnson grass all over the side of the highways on the county roads. So I'm just saying I mean we the farmers and stuff. So, Steve, I'm just saying. I mean,

no, I mean, it's the same thing. That's a Johnson grass. There's a state statute on Johnson grass. We don't really That's a That's a noxious weed, right? Yeah. Yeah. I know. That's my point. We uh you know, statute says we're supposed to do something about it. And I know I'm not sure we do as much as we ought to, but we we supposed to. We're supposed to do something.

I know that. But with this this here, then you're finding the county for on count. I mean, people call me and complain about the the Johnson grass gets 5 foot tall, you know, and it's like, so are we going to I'm just asking. I mean, are we going to go around and write tickets to farmers for having Johnson Grass, which it's it is a problem. It's a big problem. But then the county would have to be getting tickets, too. You have anybody in your district wants to serve on the Johnson Grass board? I think there's I think there's openings. But you know what I'm saying? I mean, There's more than one opening. Yeah. So, is it go both ways, Mike?

So, I I just want to mention so the language ch the change in that we're talking about with this property maintenance code, we're actually just mirroring state language. Our our language before did not cause confusion. Don't pretend to make that sound makes that sound good. No, I I'm not saying it's good or bad. I'm just telling you that's the change. We don't we're not adding additional regulation or wording about but we don't have to mirror. We're going to use the same because we're left to try to enforce that without being able to match it to what that is. So now we can say what the state says this is a noxious weed. Now we can say yes that's a noxious weed. Before we weren't be able to do it. It was confusion.

Okay. But we don't need to mirror state law. Well other than it it removes the confusion that was there before. But the it was impossible to to but but the confusion I see you're creating is a lot more rules and regulations and things like that that people in the agriculture just might like really happy with. I don't think it applies to agricultural land weeds. The weeds don't? No. No. Are you sure? Well, yeah, he would know. Well, he's not sure. Are you sure, Mike? I don't. So,

it didn't say that, did it, Dave? So there is a provision in in our current code that was was modified to try to address agricultural property. Agricultural property uh is generally affected by uh the weed ordinance. However, there are accessory structures and things that go into it that are allowed to be um exempted out based on based on the use of the property if it's truly for agricultural use and and so on and so forth. Uh typically the majority of our of our weed calls are not in an agricultural setting. They're in a in a a defined subdivision. You know, people on on, you know, third acre lots where uh there's a different expectation. So we we do our best, you know, when we're working with people in the scenario and what's going on. But but typically our our big weed complaints are not um are are not found in in in largecale agricultural areas. uh as uh the executive mentioned, there's already a provision for uh Johnson grass that's that's at a state level and and and done at a county level, too. So, um the one thing that Joe's referring to that we that we modified here is we already had the language of noxious weeds. It was already in our code. All we did was simply define what a noxious weed is because, as you can imagine, everybody when they don't like what's in their neighbor's yard, everything becomes a noxious weed. So, uh, to prevent us from running all over the place, uh, we just defined what what that was. Um, and so we thought it easiest to go to to to use the state language of what a noxious weed is, just so that, uh, we we weren't chasing uh our tails a lot of the time. So,

that that was my point.

No, no, but I mean, on page 17, I don't see it exempt in the agriculture anywhere. It just says any plant currently listed on Missouri Department of Agricultures noxious weed. I know that you're saying it's listed on the Department of Agriculture, but um I just want to make sure I guess I can call you Mike and ask, but I mean I I just there's some stuff in here that just seems like more like a lot of rules. Here's one thing I would and this is part of the issue when you are a county government as opposed to a municipal government. You have these areas that are large agricultural areas and then you have these areas that are basically subdivisions like you would see in municipal. So the example that you were just and Joanne were just talking about with the house. When we make that policy, you can paint yourself in a pretty bad way. When you do a blanket policy, and we've seen this, we've done it to ourselves a lot over the years. you make a policy to address that particular problem, not thinking about the difference of how this is going to affect a large rural agricultural area and then how it affects basically municipal subdivision area. The house example is a great part of that. And I think our guys generally speaking understand we're not going to enforce the same way for a guy who's got a 200 acre farm as we are for a guy who's got a 10,000 square foot lot in in a subdivision park. But if we write those laws like what you're talking about to get rid of those weeds, then they're not going to have a club to go after that person who's in that municipal subdivision area to be able to go do that. if I'm just using this particular example. So, we I think we've got to be careful about how we're going to write those. We've got to be cognizant of the fact that we have both municipal and large rule agricultural. Some of our policies are going to be a little more broad than they would be in a municipality.

Well, I mean, and I agree with you 100%, but you go to the trailers u about being registered. Do you know how many agriculture trailers don't have license plates on them? And so does that exclude agriculture like for hauling hay and stuff like that? I mean those are the things I'm talking about. I mean so so we are to assume that your inspectors are going to let that stuff go. I mean I I I that's if you read that that's on page uh 21. I mean that's what I'm talking about. I mean are we going to just say well these are the rules but we're going to just not apply them to agricultural people.

There's a question there. I'm going to answer, but I'm trying to find if there was. What what I will say about both of those things that you brought up um is that in both of those circumstances, we are amending the language into the code that we previously had. So, the charging language of our code has not changed. On the noxious weed example, what we did was we didn't change the language. We just simply added it, sorry, we just added a definition in. So to your trailer question, uh our language that trailer provision is the same as it was has been historically. We have brought that over as an amendment. And uh uh as Mr. Elim said, we we do our best in Eclectic County to uh try to understand that we have uh rules and there's expectations and that we have different areas in which we try our best, our absolute best to work with people within those confines. So, if um I guess if you have a concern about a specific case or item where that's happened, I' I'd love to look into it and address it, but more than likely uh that hasn't occurred or hopefully it hasn't occurred and our enforcement would be the same because the charging language is the same.

Yeah. No, I understand. It says, you know, the big wagons that haul hay, they don't have plates or lights or nothing on them. They just haul hay, but they're trailers and so I don't know. I mean, I don't want to urbanize. Has it been an issue? No, it has, but they I don't think we've had this is new. Well, he said he said this is the charging language has not changed. So, that would tell me that if it hasn't been an issue, then you're working under the same No, I know, Mike, but it's right here, right? I'm just saying if he's saying that they just moved that over. So, not everything in here is brand new. Some of this has been in play. Correct me if I'm wrong. This is bolded. This is This is bolded.

All right. So, so to try to maybe uh clear up a little bit of confusion, Rory, feel free to step in, but part of adopting a new code is essentially kind of repealing what was there, right? So the so everything that we change as we adopt a new code that we put in even if it's an an existing amendment that now we're putting into this code it's going to be bolded in front of you because it's a change to the code that we're adopting but it may not necessarily be a code from our la a change from the last code but it's going to show up to you as uh in bold writing because it's a new amendment in this new code that we're adopting but is not necessarily a new amendment to the county. It's continuing the previous amendment. Just think of it as it was an amendment in the old code. It's an amendment in the new code, but it has to show as bold. Or

or or maybe the best way is that I I have the old code in this hand. I have the the new code in this hand. And I'm taking the amendment out of the old code and I'm plugging it into the new code. And when I do that, I need to show that as a new amendment to the new code, even though it's something that the county's already had. So, it's going to show up as bold to you any change that we're making in the new code. Councilman, would it help if maybe what we did is we gave you a copy where we took the portions that are actually new and put them like in a yellow underline or something because I don't think there's really hardly anything that I mean there's like what a half dozen things. Yeah. That are actually new. Yeah, I would agree with that.

No, that's fine. Yeah, I just it just was bolded and I assuming it's all new. I get it. I get it. I I think one of the things we have to understand too is that we have contracts with some of the other jurisdictions and it says here Augusta, Flint Hill, St. Paul, Alden Springs. They want to see this transition too. It would be helpful for them even with us working with them. So I I'm I've dealt with this before and you know upgrading a code always sounds like it's just this terrible thing, but it isn't. It really is just taking what we have already and and putting it into um probably a newer format. Yeah. Updating it. Thank you, Jenny. Yes, sir.

And if I will may towards the end, the spreadsheet you guys put together of what the code changes are, I don't know if you've got to that page yet, made it really clear what was happening in a short little brief message that said no changes, deletion of this. So, you really don't need to go through all the old code. You just need to go to that little cheat sheet you guys proposed. And that was nice. We were hoping. All right. Thank you. Um, that gets us to bill 5455. Bill number part 5445. Yeah. Bill number I'm sorry. 54. It's a typo. Five. Yes.

An ordinance amending chapter 500 building codes and county building commission ordinances of St. Charles County, Missouri by adopting St. Charles County amendments and modifications of relevant standardized codes. Any new questions?

I just I just want to let you all know that um ISO, which the insurance services office, rates every building department across the country. And based on your codes and how how well trained your people are, that's how they set certain insurance rates. And in order to maintain uh the best insurance rates, you have to adopt and update your codes uh not no more than two cycles. So, we're actually kind of behind on this, but once we get this adopted, then we'll be back in in uh the top slot where we get the cheapest insurance rates for our citizens. So, that's why we're updating codes like every eight years.

Any other questions? All right, that gets us to announcements and miscellaneous. Mr. Swanson. Our next meeting will be this coming Monday, December 1st to change from our normal schedule. Just wanted to make that public. Stealing my thunder. Are you missing weather? Uh December 6 is the the what is it? The 18th annual uh Defiance Christmas parade starts at 12. The road closes about 11:00. A lot of vendors, bounce house for kids, all kinds of good stuff. Santa Claus. So, uh just letting everybody know. Come on down.

Mr. Baker. Yeah, I'm I'm not sure you all seen that the channel 4 did a special on Daniel Boone Park and I was really impressed with not only the park but the employees that that know all the history and all all the particulars about Daniel Boone's home. So, good job to them, Ryan, and good job to you. So, thank you. One more thing on that, Brian. When's the when's the Christmas walk? First two weeks of de or weekends of December the day the first the 6th and the what is it the 5th 6th 12th and 13th.

All right. Now if you guys haven't been to the Christmas walk at the Daniel Boone home you're really missing something. It's really cool and it's what you talked about Tim. You go into every little structure and they give you a little store or little story of of the history and they got how many thousands of lights candles and it's totally cool. And everyone's dressed up in that 1800 uh dress and Daniel Boone tells stories and it's really cool. And if you want to go, you have to go next year cuz it's sold out. Can you send Can Can you Is it really sold out? It's How How long did it take to sell out? First week of November, I believe. Yeah. As soon as it went out that first week, it sold out.

Hey, Kevin or Ryan, could you just drip? Do you have a copy of that that video of the the news report or the special they did on channel 4 about that and send it to everybody because maybe I don't know if you all seen it but it was Did you all see it? I didn't see it. I saw it. Yeah, it was impressive. It's just really was a link. It's on our Facebook page too. Okay.

All right. Anything else for the good of cause? Just a quick reminder, as Mr. Swanson said, our meeting is moved to next Monday in December. Rather than being the second and last, we are the first and third. So we will be the first and the 15th of the month for our meetings. The two bills that we read for introduction will not be voted on. So you have time for questions. It will not be voted on next Monday because it has to be on the calendar uh for two weeks. So we will take those two bills up and vote on those on the 15th. Yes,

Mr. Chairman, I'm going to I'm going to ask Rory to do some research before the next meeting and and and let us know uh let you all know what you can do about your rules to make sure people can't come to that mic and just talk about anything they want to I think that's very important. Yeah, we just clarity would be good just to understand exactly what we have at that point. Uh with that I wish everyone a good Thanksgiving. You're here. Motion to adjurnn. Second. We'rejourn.

Good luck. Good job, H.

When I was reading that bill, Uh, two feet.