Planning Board - Regular Meeting

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start United States thank you this is not even coming on roll call Mayor richuber here committ and Alex Kaiser you him no I need to conference I'll come back to him Mr David Barnett Miss Marissa rerio Mr Aaron laugher here Mr Richard Cedar Miss Julie T here Mr Scott wishner Vice chair Sharon kle chairman Jeff tiger yes and Alex Kaiser yep I'm here perfect okay so you'll be present so for the record um mayor um for the record Mr Barnett is has a personal matter so he will not be here tonight and um the same thing with Mrs rerio so please count them as an excused absence since we had an advanced notice and we have a quorum and we have enough people for the that's great first thing we have is a resolution we had public service and gas here a few months ago was 1-20 25s 24 Brown Avenue block 3103 Lots 17 and 33 this was for outside storage a minor s plan the board reached positive

uh resolution on it everyone have a chance to review it any questions and concerns seeing none can I entertain a motion to approve second can I have a roll call Mr wishner yes Vice chair Castle yes mayor yesman Kaiser yes Mr Locker I have to abstain I wasn't here for that meeting thank you Mr Cedar Mr Mayo yes and Jeff TI yes yes perfect okay the the next thing we had RW stores so this is a resolution the board at the last meeting RW stores came before us we approved the change in tency and the compactor not the signs that will be for a little bit later in the agenda so there should be a resolution for just that there were some changes but can I entertain a motion to adopt the resolution 2020 20 25-s motion active roll call Mayor Huber yes Mr laer yes meiser yes it's working uh Mr Cedar Quist M too AB Mr wishner Vice chair kessle yes and chair tiger yes motion pass okay so now we have application law stores again so I see councel there but I'm going to preference a lot of this on the record first so at the last meeting we we deferred um judication on the number of signs and the approval of of the sign 57 Ines off the facade as well as what would be put on the Windows since then Aaron had a lovely meeting with them at the at the uh TRC they had a chance to review it and I think they came to the determination which they're going to withdraw their variances for the window signs and they're going to stick to the 20% coverage and just adhere to the

ordinance and but they would still want the four the number of signs which is four and if were to be 57 inches off of the facade I we heard testimony on this prior so I don't think we need to hear testimony again because the big issue was the windows um anything Mr disco to add you summarize it properly and Mr laer represented the subcommittee at the TRC and I think it's his new job he's doing that all the time be on board with what you just said you're good with that Aon I'm good with it perfect um anything to add on that uh uh the temporary signs uh oh yes and the temporary signs yes and then we were seeking for where one was permitted we're going to match the duration was just the number of temporary signs and the temporary signs will go down when the new signs go up uh they'll go down after the time limit to expire it it's like the grand opening uh so they have four grand opening signs where one is typically permitted for 30 days we're asking for four for 30 days uh that was identified in uh your planner report so that was a relief we were seeking as well Mr Mista we agree we support it as long as it's within the conditions of the timing allowed okay and that's just secured from a safety standpoint because we've had a lot of wind and I don't want them blowing over that's correct okay okay so seeing that I don't see any reason I just want to open up to the public to see if there's any concerns and then we'll REM it back to the board see if's anything this but I don't think we need anything any members of the public wish to speak on the sign portion of raw stores seeing none uh I'm going to close the matter to the public and talk to the board um Mr Huber any concerns no Julie Aaron no Aaron no concern Richard Mr wishner okay so seeing none Let Me Entertain a motion to approve four signs 57 in off the off the facade and four temporary signs for a period of 30 days for the grand opening it may be 58 in off but okay we

we we'll just go up to up to 58 okay it's fine yeah that'll be a field change if if you feel it's anywhere appropriate uh any questions Alex man Alex no nope I'm good okay so seeing none can I entertain a motion for the way I outlined it so moved in accordance with the Chairman's uh distinctions with with the only other thing the conditions in the first resolution run with this as well um you know no Co until the site is completely clear of all other issues or a bond is posted or some sort of agreement with the engineer from a standpoint also again no shared it's all one parking lot for Aldi versus Ross there's no designated spots for each correct other than handic correct yes it's a site specific unless Mr disco feels there's something that prohibits them from you know if it's landscape they were actually incorporated into this the last one already anyway but yes but again I we give the board always gives Mr disco some latitude if he feels like it's it's something that they can't do because of weather or whatever that's correct that's what Ali did at TCO but very limited because we want to make sure this is one shot to get everything so uh roll call second I think Mr wish did oh no who said I'll second it go ahead Vice chair Castle yes chairman tiger yes mayor hu yes committ Kaiser Alex oh uh you broke up there yes uh Mr ler yes Mr Cedar yes and are youing great motion pass okay so do you want to wave reading and proceed at your own risk yes please anyone the board

have any concern with that now obviously I don't think anyone's going to appeal but it understood possibility work through everything with the engineer okay goodbye and good luck the resolution will adopt at the April 10th meeting thank you very much thank you so much have a good night every take care okay the next application is uh Bottle King which is next to Staples which is uh 4-25 s 155 us through 22 block 3703 Lot 2 minor site plan bulk variants loot coverage parking signs so store um Council before you start I would like Mr disco to give us a little bit overview guide some of the testimony and guide the board what ask yes and Mr M Mr go ahead um Ross has a uh change of tendency approval Bottle King excuse me Bottle King has a change of tendency approval dated several months ago uh to take tenancy of the former Sam Ash location next to Staples in that two tenant uh um subsequent to the change of tency they applied for uh plans submitted plans for facade changes really basically where the sign hangs on the front of the building they are bumping that out as a canopy type of facade with some pillars there there's a generator going to be installed on the west side of the building at the rear of the building two uh pass doors man doors pass doors will be installed and two uh Loc loading doors loading bay doors um that's essentially the the new changes to the plan and then we have reviews from Michael and myself as far as some site items so the use is not an issue it's use is not an issue it's just the variances they're requiring to make changes to the facade spice up the place type of that's correct okay it's a technical parking variance because um technically the the uh the site is underp parked for the floor area of the

building building uh We've documented that that's not an issue but they're they're losing a couple spaces in the back to manipulate the placement of the bay doors and so it's a technical variance for the parking and that should be because of that because of that okay that's fair Mr mrea anything further before they begin very quickly um very similar to The Raw store application you're asking for signage variances which they will go through I just want to be clear my report called out one sign variance that is incorrect and i' like to just edit my memo uh verbally right now that the total sign area should not exceed 10% they they meet that requirement so that's not a variance that they're asking for the other items in our letter are very similar uh to the previous application as far as enhancing the site they're asking for an impervious coverage variant we asked to see if they could re-evaluate the site and find areas where we could turn some existing impervious coverage into green open space Landscaping to help beautify and soften the property which we think is this is a great opportunity to do that along with the architectural improvements and if they did some focused on some site improvements to soften up and green property we would those are our mainus yeah we're big on landscape okay so uh if you can just give an overview I think more so is focus on the facade changes and the back what you're doing absolutely some Landscaping that you're contemplating putting in yes yes so my name is Richard Stewart and I'm a member of the law firm of blaster Hawkman in rosand and I'm here tonight on behalf of the applicant Springfield Bottle King LLC and I think that the introductions that we heard um were comprehensive I'm not going to give another opening remark but I will have our or ask our architect to uh present an overview of the Architectural

Components of uh of the application so I would like to call Howard Cooper Smith and where would you like the you can just put up here there's no members of the public for bot anyone from Bottle King no all right then you can just put it on face right here yeah that looks nice that's perfect short sweet over overview would be great you don't have to focus on the inside yeah we got to qualify you qualify and uh gets warn in raise your right hand do you swear airm the testimony you're about to give is the truth the whole truth is nothing but the truth uh could you please state your name again for the record to spell your last name c0000 c p RS SMI would you like sure sure sure Mr Cooper Smith um can you just briefly indicate your professional and educational background for the board in terms of your qualifications to appear and testify this evening as an architect I have a bachelor in architecture you hear microphone close email okay can you hear now we I have a bachelor uh in architecture from uh New Jersey Institute of Technology I've been uh an architect for more than 40 years um I've been licensed for more than 30 years and uh and you've testified before boards

such as this and you've been qualified as an expert in the field of architecture I would ask that the board recognize Mr Cooper Smith any members of the board have a concern with that Mr Cooper Smith think of that as a as a ice cream cone closer gotcha gotcha perfect go ahead okay um so um basically the existing storefront the former scash store is relatively flat and it sort of has two components to it it is um the lower portion as you can see with the rendering pattern has it's it's actually the existing block of the building and it has a uh sort of a a Garden State brick face finish on top of it Ironically in the form of a block pattern which it already is um so Our intention was to give the facade a bit of a dynamic change to it so we were proposing a facade canopy that that sits on columns and projects out from the building but uh it does not increase any floor area inside the store it's purely exterior and it is a um sort of a signature style of the bottle Kings uh we've been doing Bottle Kings for about 30 maybe 35 years and in the last 10 years or so we've tried to make most of the stores with some signature similar elements and the elements are a facade that usually has a curving top to it like this shows and the facade has a corrugated galvanized metal finish and mounted on the facade is

a truss that's made out of a tubular aluminum frame and it's got the signature bottle can color which is a a teal blue and that's typically an architectural element that's used in in all the stores just these are part of the original plans plans that were submitted correct okay so right and um mounted on that truss is the sign the sign is typically it's a u it's a channel letter a metal Channel letter that has a Bottle King Yellow Plex glass face and led illuminated and that whole canopy structure projects out from the facade and it is uh and we have a whole series of concrete 30in diameter concrete column that are uh projected out from the building and that's forms the entire canopy and that's basically the whole element in the background of the of the facade is um a a stucco finish with with reveals at 2 feet on Center throughout the whole store Front yes this is standard foring nothing this is not bigger than any other Bottle King that standard all the elements are the same size the the length of the oh yeah is is longer because we have so much a a much bigger storefront in this case bottle and King is the same fitted yes that's the way we always do it yes further the other element is the storefront glass uh normally between the Bays no often that the the elements are on the storefront itself in this case we have canopy where projected out and the

columns are are out from the building but we created the storefront glass similar to the other storefronts that we've been doing the only difference here is is that for security reasons rather than have all glass we've got two bays of the glass that have a solid panel in which Graphics goes on it the third row up is actually glass and then the fourth row is spandel glass so how much of percent Mr disco how much of percentage is this for they're allowed they're allowed 20% exceeding 20% with the window yes I don't on the color graphic that is sheet one on the plan there's nothing shown cover the windows yeah so I'm not sure we have an ordinance that you're only supposed to be 20% covering glass well this is not there's only the only glass is this third row the rest of it is solid wall solid wall yes with a system on top that looks like a storefront but it's not actually storefront so are those Mike are those signs no no we we do it in other bottle Kings as a graphic element what's being put on there is it or just no no no it's it's usually like a a scene of a Vineyard oh okay that wouldn't require any variances or anything it I mean it's close call probably well first is is it covering a window or a heard wall in there in that ter it's a solid wall solid wall okay when we had Stu Leonard's come it was determined by our definition they used a a scripture like a a Vine and we said that's designating a logo it's so count

it as a sign is what I would suggest so we would have to Grant a variance for window Cod we've done this in other I'm not saying I want the word to hear to be clear on that from a standpoint it's not an advertisement that's one it's like see what you're putting like I can see it there it's like a Vineyard type of a look to give more of a to beautify the the place as opposed to saying you know this beer is on sale for two for Freight or something because it's solid wall behind otherwise you would see just a solid panel okay I want to hear what the profession anything further side standpoint that's really the what we're doing on the store Front the inside we're not care that doesn't have in the rear anything in the rear with the rear we're not really doing anything architectural other than other than um just kind of altering some of the openings but it's not really yes show us just we are adding uh a sign on the side of the building there is an existing fascia that we are U adding another sign because when you're coming down you're going east Eastward on on 22 you see that side and there's nothing there to indicate what and I get that mik that seems consistent with with what we would have done because otherwise you pass if if you don't do it you on the passing you have to make urns so from a safety and a Direction Stand yes otherwise you're relying only on the freestanding sign our ordinance permits more than one sign on a corner lot but it has to be Street facing so in this case the oneway street there's no benefit to putting the sign on the fatum roadside so they have it on the west

side of it for the eastbound traff it seems very reasonable it does require a variance only because the lettering is more than 5 feet off let's let's pull the board yes it's on a201 so passing passing the so Scott passing the car dealership and everything and you come up to it you see it all right we'll go we go there for Mr ubber any questions now I have a quick question what what's there now is it is it is it a a solid wall there now with half with a half window there's only a storefront entry with glass and doors and then there's a they have a a grillid there's no windows there it's it's only an entry vestibule window I wouldn't really say that it's storefront well back to the elevation in existing condition A200 shows the existing it's just the the sliding doors so what you're going to be doing is you're actually going to be cutting the wall to put in a Windows we are going to cut the wall to allow for these upper Windows not three there's four rows of glass that we're creating one of the rows is

actually so the second so the bottom half of that is going to be just a solid wall as solid wall but it's going to have storefront elements on it to make it look like it's storefront okay okay I didn't realize that's that it was all uh all wo now okay cool committing man Alex kaer Alex any question no no no questions okay Sharon no questions Richard Mr wishner I when you're coming when you're coming eastbound that's the west side of the building that's the first thing you're going to see Mike did you saw the site what do you you think that it's beneficial I mean I I I don't I can't well the applicant obviously feels it's beneficial to identify the property and to give advanced warning the the the canopy sign is obviously perpendicular to to the traffic so you have to be on the building more or less see that so I ask arguing for it or against it I'll ask you for your opinion if you're driving down there do you have a chance to miss it because you don't have that sign on the side is I think what Scott's trying to do is it a safety or you think that the big Scott said there's the big pylon sign will you be able to make the decision to be able to go into the parking lot as a if if you didn't have that the only way I can answer that is Sam Ash survived with that well maybe not maybe Sam Ash was there a long time we'll put it to you that way um I don't know the board's going to

have to decide let's if there's no other questions to the witness let's have the planner come up and justify the variances yes I just want the engineer to justify to come up talk a little bit about parking variant just to Jus yes yes so so so the uh the planner is the engineer he has license in both and he can do both at the same time but please don't uh go away because the board may have questions on the side so I call Joseph spon [Music] even if there's anything you could do to touch the site [Music] sign uh yes go ahead s uh raise your right hand swear firm the testimony that you're about to give is the truth the trth nothing but the truth I do uh could you state your name again for the record please spell your last name Joseph spon s p r o n I'm a director with Dynamic engineering located in Chester New Jersey Council if you'd like to Mr spon um as with h Howard can you please give your educational professional background in terms of your qualifications to appear this evening as both a planner and an engineer yes uh I have a Bachelor of Science civil engineering from Ruckers University uh been I'm a licensed engineer in the state of New Jersey as well as a licensed planner uh been working in the field of engineering and planning for 20 plus years um and I have been accepted as at least an engineer in front of this board uh it's been a little bit but in the past I don't remember you it's been a while but that's fine any concerns from the board no okay we'll accept you as a qualification but focus on a couple of points that you've heard from the board sure um I mean I'll touch on the site uh for the for the sign to the side that that side that corner and that's kind of

a reason for one of the variances to two of the variances so two of the variances being that you're going to have two signs one on a side of a building not technically facing a public street that side of the that corner of the building though is visible as you're coming down Route 22 eastbound you can identify and see that side of the building uh fairly clearly and that was the reason why which kind of leads to the other variant for the sign height because the letters are stacked so you know instead of having bottle Kings stretched out they actually stacked them up on one top of each other the the the letters themselves actually smaller than the front sign the front side being 5 ft I think the side um I'm just going to double check I think they were like three feet right I have that right so the 3 feet stack that's what gives you the signage height so again it's it's pushed to the front it's to the front corner of the building I agree there is a freestanding sign Route 22 though is fairly busy and having that additional wave finding to the building especially coming into the site um I don't think hurts um but it is it is visible I actually just drove it down today looking at that same exact thing um coming down Route 22 eastbound you're able to see that corner of the building so it will be visible me um in addition to that uh we touched on parking uh briefly as was mentioned I mean that the parking is actually pretty straightforward it's an existing non-conformity uh technically 26 six spaces would be required 165 exists today we're reducing that by three and we're reducing it by three at the rear of the building uh the reason being to add additional loading and the ability for the further operation of the Bottle King um primarily the one loading dock will be used the one that's existing uh there today but they want the option at one point in the future to be able to add another loading dock if they feel it's necessary and then actually a drive IND door um so the trucks could actually

just drive into the building um like you do a lot of uh newer warehouses these days so um that's why we're losing the three spaces in the rear but again they're in the rear um we feel those will be the less used spaces they're really for employees overflow parking primarily people are going to park in front of the store during the holidays it gets busy you could probably see them parking in the rear but that's about it can you give some planning testimony on the variances signs yeah do we do we need to have this marked or anything or oh actually yeah I should have I I mean I didn't use it but it's the site plan site Improvement plan that was submitted to the board no changes same exact it was it was submitted okay that's fine yeah um Mike you got this we can't see it but I assume it's sheet three sheet three yep sheet three sight and uh sight Improvement plan yeah it's the same thing that was submitted so no changes to it uh so I went through the we had the signage or I'm sorry the the parking variants um there there was the variance for the number of wall signs being two uh you have two uses on the property already um so just adding the the sign uh to it is going to give you the variance for the number of um number of signs uh sign height 5 foot Max uh is required 6.8 ft prop post that's for that side sign again that's due to the Stacked Bottle King versus uh side by side written out and then the maximum number of facade signs again is pretty similar to the other variance as far as um not facing a public street so the sign location not just the number of signs um as was mentioned sign area in aggregate so 10% of up to 10% of the front facade area is allowed um and the signage is well beneath that um so it will uh meet the sign area requirement the variance is just toe to quantity

breaking up that area and the location of it and then um in addition to that the number ass sign will be reduced um I know you know sign pollution is something that the town looks to reduce so at the end of the day you're going to have less signs out there so they won't be spread out across the building and you know individual signs um right now there's a total of nine this will reduce it to six um only two of them being associated with the Bottle King the other four are the existing staple sign so again just one bottle King sign on the front one bottle King side on the corner facing the eastbound traffic go in the Pyon and the py well the pylon itself is just going to remain they're just refacing that so there's no changes to the pylon they're going to reface what's there um so there are no changes to the pylon that will stay the freestanding sign I believe you're referring to can you can you testify a little bit about the um vineard as he was talking about on the glass wall whatever you wanted to it and what the positive and benefits are I mean I I I see it all but positive right and it's it's I in my opinion it's not advertising while they might have it other stores when I think Bottle King I don't think like the vineyard like panel right it's not like trademarked or anything like that as far as I know um I think it's just a way of them like adding almost like a mural to the front of the building to break up that front facade you know right now you saw it Sam Ash is literally basically got the door you know two sliding doors so it's a pretty empty plain facade you know plus the signage on top they're obviously going out of their way with the Aesthetics with the architectural features I mean they could have you know maybe just showed up and thrown a sign on it reused the door and tried to go that route they're actually going through the effort of putting in um glass at least in that top row and then making it look like window at least coming down below that and the addition in the Ural just improves the aesthetic so you know as far as considering an A sign I I I I don't think it's considered a sign it's not advertising but I mean

it is a graphic So to that extent I would have to lean to the board on their opinion on that impervious coverage you're going up correct if I ever we're we had talked we're actually going to look to hold at least at or below the existing coverage so we'll look to reduce uh impervious coverage somewhere to make up the the reason for the increase in impervious coverage was simply for a generator on the side of the building um so we're going to look to cut out some asphalt add some more Greenery to the site um as far as Landscaping you're going to look to maintain and Spruce that up as well um still trying to work with what's there you know obviously there's you know minimum amount of parking that they got to keep but if there's some extra asphalt you know there's some sidewalk that doesn't need to be there on the side of the building we'll have that removed so we'll be at or at lease below so that variance goes away it's an existing non-conformance but we're not going to approve it okay and then I any approval would be subject to like a landscaping plan so wherever you're moving um you and Mr disco I'm sure the board's comfortable with that you and Mr disco will come up with a an appropriate Landscaping plan but I'd like to see a decent amount of landscaping to spruce up that area to make it look like yeah we can work with the board profession you want the front of the building to look very welcoming with uh the vineyard as you were saying the same anything would hold true from Landscaping to carry through with that agree with that statement No Okay anything further I was going to say maybe the shopping carts do you want them to address shopping carts yes uh shopping carts I did talk with the the appin on that today so as of now they have the interior uh storage for the carts um they're also going to look to add one um at the sidewalk along the front of the building in an area that doesn't block um pedestrian circulation so there will be a up an exterior point to be able to collect carts there as well what is that what do we allow with that I so that that's what Ali has they basically have that walled exterior that's normal I mean I'm I'm less concerned with ald I was concerned and and and Alex is on because he had

the same concern that the carts could blow out on Route 22 this they could roll to 22 with this I the elevation is way there's no way this would happen right it's only an aesthetic so you want to obvious L I think Springfield would want to not have carts strewn all over throughout the day only collected at the evening so so this makes sense does it we make sure it's inside I don't see how you can open a business where you're you're selling kegs or cases of beer that people aren't bringing the carts to the car so the reality is you the people empty their cart what do they do with the car it's like any other place thing that does the quarterback thing that does oh I'm I'm not even familiar with that uh okay was good talking to Alex um um that's fine let's see what we'll leave that to come up with I think I think we I think the board understands you have to have it but maybe what oh he's coming that's why he okay give it one second until he comes I'm giving it one second until he comes up here so that way there's he can vote sure absolutely and Joe you wanted to look going to say something else before I interrupted you I gotta charge my battery okay so the record Alex is person 707 that's pretty good timing yeah so we'll open up to the board but I think that you'll have some sort of plan with Mr disco try to make it as I mean I'm sure you want it aesthetically pleasing as well abolutely to figure something out the idea is to be you know a collection point for carts but at the same time you know all the empty spaces really in the parking lot are used for parking so you could do a remote Corral but you know again you're taking up a parking I I don't think we want a remote Coral that just promotes them to be flowing through the and if we could just have two minutes just to get uh positive negative criteria in the record uh yeah

uh correct so we went through the variances um it's going to be C2 variances is the criteria that we're going to justify these under so the positive being the purposes of the ml would be Advanced by deviation from the zoning ordinance requirement and the benefits of the deviation Would S substanti outweigh any detriment benefits to the community in that it represents better zoning alternative uh negative variance can be granted without St substantial detriment to the public good and will not substantially impair intent purposes of the uh Zone plan and ordinance first prong being impact on adjacent Pro properties and damag character of neighborhood second prong grounds offered support variance advocately justify board approval um in the sense that the positive criteria purposes of the mlul that are advanced purpos a b g i and m um if there's questions on those I'm happen to go more into detail on those uh and then as far as advancing uh the The Zone uh no substantial detriment to the public good or Zone plan or zoning orance the use is permitted it's a retail use um that's actually taken the space of a prior retail use in the highway commercial H Zone uh the proposed development complies with bulk requirements except well what was the dmin increase in a previous Cod to which it's now since been eliminated and then uh variances for what we feel is appropriate signage uh to identify the use and it's in character with surrounding land use as far as other commercial uses up and down Route 22 um in addition it promotes the goals and thees objectives of the township master plan as far as taking advantage of Redevelopment opportunities along Route 22 and decreasing at least the number of signs so again those are all objectives of the of the township Master zoning um so in inclusion uh it's consistent with good planning and meets the statutory tests for Relief are met so approval is warranted okay so let me open up to the board uh for some questions so highlight

I want to just preference that I don't while it's a sign on the GL on the glass or the wall I think since to my thought it's up to you as well they're not advertising so I think that what they're doing the vineyard I think that's making the building look more aesthetically pleasing so I think that justifies the as far as the sign on the side look I'm indifferent but if it if they feel they need it we want them to be successful my opinion we want them to thrive there you know as long as possible and drive more business to Springfield so I think that if they think they need it and Mr disco and and our planners comfortable with it uh I know they're stacking the letters to make sure it's in that corner so you get the sideline so I think that that's but Uber yeah um I have to leave and I apologize I have another meeting I have to go to that's right I forgot I'm sorry um the only thing that I'm really against is giving them permission now to put another loading dock in I want them to come back to us order the engineers to okay you asked for that am I correct we we ask for another um loading dock there's two loading docks and a drivein door yeah but I I would be against that and what way why why because I want to know I want to know what's going on because the right I worked in that building I know there's two or three loading box I know there's one on the side and one in the back correct okay and I don't know I just feel that they could do with the one in the back if they need it they come to Mike and then we have to we would have to okay it or something they would have to okay it I just don't would you be would you be so we keep it from the board would you be okay if we if we the board granted approval but holding that second loading dock that at some point in time in the next year two that they went to the TRC for approval with one of the members on the board to make help make that decision I me to do that yes all right I

see it comment about one of one of the loading docks there there's a there's a room in the in the rear of the building that's three feet lower than the rest of the the store it has no access now it was probably a loading dock years ago with Overhead Doors it's a solid wall there so it's a use less room right now we're proposing to put in a man door and eventually a uh an overhead door to actually use it like a like a loading dog because right now it serves no purpose I just I just want them to come back to someone just to get the approval I just don't want I'm not going to give them blank thing and say okay you can put the load backck in that's my opinion mayor I want we value your opinion Julie do you what are your thoughts of the mayor's comments um I don't have an issue with the loading dots um I feel like if they need it to be able to be successful and bring in their I will be more concerned with like deliveries and what times those are going to be rather than the fact that they have three building docks they have a room that they're saying that it's unusable right now when they want to convert it we want them to use the space you know effectively so that my my my question if I had time it's on 22 we don't necessarily care but I if you want the answer can pause it no no it's not like I said it was if I had any questions that will be more my but I don't have an issue with their loading docks yeah um I don't have an issue with the loading docks either I mean it's it's not a there's no residence anywhere near there so I don't think that's a problem um 22's got plenty of traffic as it is uh I don't really have any any points or any any objections I think it's an improvement to the site um I actually was just in uh

Staples the other day and I almost passed it because I forgot exactly where it was so I think that that sign is exactly to to your point and um I was very sad to see Sam Ash go but uh I think this is a good use of that site I did uh um I I would uh I would agree with Sharon I've passed that a couple times when you're not paying attention and you know where it is and and and and I've made that uh uh mistake in the past uh uh Sam Ash uh while I never used I'll probably use Bottle King a little bit more so uh uh we' be happy only question is the can you address the loading do yeah the the I have no concerns with the loading dock okay uh question on the loading dock yeah I don't I don't think I generally have a concern is is the two loading docks potentially there so that you would leave one truck or one I I forget what they call the the back of the truck leaving there at all the time and then you have a second one so that another delivery can come and just to make it that you uh uh uh can take your time I guess emptying one of the trucks is that the purpose it's partly that it's for efficiency so know there's one truck already staging loading they have the ability to bring truck in and then again it's two different kinds of loading do architect was referring to there's one space that's like three foot below so usually typically loading dock is up high right like set up high So like um you know a larger box truck can back up to it and you just roll it in and out um the other one was going to be more of a drive Indo um reason being a beer delivery you ever seen those it's a different kind of truck where they're bringing them out and they're rolling it

in a lot of times they end up rolling them in through the front of the store so they wanted to be able to do their beer deliveries in the back do a larger box truck so basically accommodate both can we say the loading doc would be helpful that all deliveries would be in the back to avoid the front with Park withing parking issues that would help us justify the second correct would I I would that that makes a lot of that makes a lot of sense to me make the mayor more comt with giving it for that reason we're avoiding truck sitting in the front no pun intended but bottling things up a front type of a thing so let's uh I think that yeah with that I I would agree with that I would just say that yeah in this scenario I really don't have a problem with having two loading docks uh I would have a problem if you for prolonged periods of time if you were leaving a truck and there was say residential in back of your your complex but on this complex there is none so I'm fine with that I really like your trick that hey all deliveries go in the back and uh so our zoning so be clear that our zoning officer looks at these conditions and goes out and checks on everyone so clear I just want to make sure do do we until that loading dock is installed do we need to use the front loading dock at all fa well I mean aren't you going to have both open before you get a CO I mean you're going to need the building department sign off to open so I'll leave that to Mr disco and you guys to figure that out if well he has to be sworn if that's wait one second we'll leave that to Mr Disco If that becomes an issue he says you need to do the some for a very very short period of time to have deliveries in the front until the back is complete if Mr disco feels that's appropriate I'm sure the board will be comfortable with that Mr disco you okay with that I understand the mission did you want let me just finish uh two questions to the board Richard

any question yes uh as far as your loading docks I think I don't have a problem with you having the second loading dock it's going to be more efficient for your operation moove your stuff in an NA quicker you it's a win for everybody on that and as far I know the building looks like I've been in it I think your improvements that you're proposing it's a much better look than it looks now so I think it's fine Mr wishner so concern yes they can certainly manipulate the parking the Staples is not generating any High parking demand I'm there all the time Shar and uh so if they have to come into the drive a a little bit more construction there's a way to U put traffic control devices to so one second Mr wish that was a very good point so that that's another reason why deliveries can't happen because if you park a truck there for deliveries like said in the it has to so to be clear okay

we were talking about that Mr disco that's something you op to monitor the right place for that to give the proper ability that sure how WID That Sidewalk is so people aren't standing on the it sounds like they're going to present a plan that Michael and I will get a chance to put eyes on and and you'll be com perfect with that Mr yeah don't 40 you'd be lucky if people are only going 40 Scott if we if if we board did Grant the sign how would you feel about that we just grant it for this use only so if they ever do leave that we we can evaluate it again it's just not grandfather that I don't know whatever comes in that store 30 years from now I don't know I don't have okay

so then then with that sign if the board doesn't have a concern let's let's do it for this app only meaning Mr disco and Council if someone comes to use that site in the future that that's not considered part of their just oh let's Lop up another sign they would have to request VAR we do that uh depends on the use no it's okay but I thought that would be a fair thing because then we can you know because I hate when if we put something there and then someone else comes in there they want to do it well and it may not be necessary that's fine okay you had one more quick witness no we were going to talk about the loading up but we're fine okay so I I think that the way we solved with the loading or I think the board's comfortable is that no drop offs in the front when you have the loading docks complete that's when it's got to go completely to the back but now that Mr wishner brought up a wonderful point if you put a truck there with beer being delivered you will block all traffic for your parking lot to go to you and to go to Staples and then Staples will hate you and uh and there'll be a long problem so I think that is justification my opinion to the EXT loading dock right away with no deliveries up front any members of the public that wish to speak on this application seeing none I'm going to close it and it to the board let's kind of discuss I lost track of the Varian is you want to we may have questions oh oh I'm so sorry I forgot about you guys go ahead I I there was a couple things that I wrote that I didn't hear addressed yet so I just want to get them on the record perfect we op to open up public there's a Transformer on on the site I gave you

a picture it's graffitied up love to repaint that better yet if we can landscape in front of it leave I don't think that's a problem okay uh we we mentioned the shopping cart storage issue I think that's going to be resolved in a different way um my I'm going backwards here it's just easier my number 20 suggested that the plan suggests the curb line is going to bump out slightly to accommodate the col I see that on there's an architectural plan that depicts that the site plan doesn't depict that so I need to know for the record whether we're bumping out into the aisle with provide testimony on that does that affect the circulation uh the curb line will need to bump out um the idea being know that we're going to there's extra room in that drive B to hopefully accommodate that I don't like to hopefully what if it doesn't how do you figure that out would have to show the the aisle width has as I recall uh back of the park stuck out let me see if my photos yeah there's a Faded Line there which I presumed was a a fire line there the wet the one way width is adequate so if you are we bumping out a foot probably looking out a foot foot and a half times I think you it can be managed that way but I just wanted to on the record so you see problem you'll have to have to deal with it and if you want have the fire chief to sign off on it two that he feels like a fire truck and get through there that's probably a good idea as well um there was a comment about sanitary sore flow so again we Springfield is in a difficult position in that we exceed our permitted flow rights to rvsa numerous times a year and then we get it used to be called fines penalties now we they're called excess flow charges it's a prettier way to

don't we have a connection Fe that they have or well they if they don't change the um the sore physical sore connection that doesn't happen but what we ask is that the calculation or what their usage is going to be versus what Sam Ash did and if it goes up we want to mitigate that this is not a huge generator of of sewer flows but again if it goes up goes down great the town benefits so how would we mitigate that it's a condition that they provide the sore flows I get that but what if they say it's higher you well then we do we do typically and we did this for um Evergreen theragnostics if you remember on Commerce so we we look at the manholes and we do waterproof manholes that are leaking and taking rain water or water that inflow comes in through the through the opening so there there many ways to do it so you're comfortable with mitig yeah we'll provide the calculations it should be a wash if anything no pun intended it's going to be it's going to be retail to retail um so using the DP requirements you know for predicting it's going to be the same yeah unless there's some sort of water use part of their operation uh there's some potholes in the front again I didn't hear that address we want to obviously fix the potholes and do the restriping so the parking lot as a condition would have to be complet he's going to go through with an inspection with our zoning officer and he has to be completely safe to make sure no one Falls front front and rear because you rear is actually in pretty good shape the front the will Beed um that'll be done along and that'll be and that the good news is it's by the time you start this in April May won't be a weather situation just keep in mind I don't know when you're planning on opening that it's done before because you won't Grant a CO without having these things good point thank you for bringing these yeah the the rear is much better conditioned than the front I really have no issue with the rear uh we both mentioned Landscaping I think we need a

little guidance I mean I think you have the ability to add Street trees along fatum maybe along with 22 and then there's other Landscaping opportunities I know Michael will touch on that I'll let him I think we should add Landscaping wherever it is appropriate and especially covering that the utility box the board I mean if you could add it should be added everywhere possible they've taken the time and they want a variance for to make the facade look more better so they should be concerned with making the facade I will say we we looked at it today and we were talking with the applicant opportunities to add landscape and looked at different areas with them in op a for today they were hesitant on Street trees but as far as the interior landscaping and getting that replacing there is a dead tree in parking lot getting rid of that I think you're hearing the board want the street trees but come up with a plan if Mr comfortable will be lovely to join the TRC and you guys can RW it Street trees along Fatam F yep yeah it's it's an order again you're here for site plan you don't have to do it but no no I think if we're granting variances to make the ordinance also requires sidewalks I see no need to do that either there's no sidewalks in here um should there be should they paid to the sidewalk fund is that something that the committee is I I I don't know if we have a tree fund yes but a sidewalk fund I don't think we have there'd be no plans on F none of the fatum road extent has okay so then maybe in L of that the trees are more um there are some dumpsters that are right now just in the rear parking lot they're they're supposed to be enclosed in in fening so right that has to be done in some mechanism one may be Staples one may be the the applicants but regardless we don't want them in the front of the building which they're not but they are just strewn taking up if they don't do it yeah I just wanted on

the record we should do this going to be finding them so that'll be one of the conditions of approval to that meable they actually the landord as far as the loading there's no there's no maximum on loading there is a minimum obviously looking for more there's no Varian associated with loading uh I'll let Michael touch on E if parking if he wants because again not required you got an existing parking lot but just so everybody knows if you put EV in or if they plan on putting EV in you should hear it on the uh we didn't talk about lighting Under The Canopy you're going to be some under canopy lights correct but they're just generally for the walkway area I'm sure you'll make sure it's lit enough CLE yeah the sand mash the the the freestanding sign so right now Staples has one of three Sam Ash had two of the three so the question remains we will the Bottle King be using two panels on the freestanding sign or one all Aldi where they were going to basically black one out they didn't they should only need one especially for giv the sign on yeah I didn't hear testimony on it and there was no freestanding signs details submitted so perhaps they can answer that quickly so I would imagine you take the one underneath Staples and the other one would be blacked out especially if the board's granting this side side variance side side sign variance again there there's three there one two three I'm sure it could be that's a pretty large yeah uh cabinet like that's a pretty large size we just want Direction whether they're proposing use both panels or not because it it is rather large yeah they that I mean

honestly I'd love to get rid of the word Staples and put staples and then Whatchamacallit so we kill the height of that but whatever so let's just can we talk through that we actually have a signed uh detail I don't think it was submitted no it wasn't yeah I don't know if that's GNA fly with the word but sure let me you have like two that we can pass out yeah one they don't yeah in my opinion before you even testify that's Overkill um I think that that it's Bottle King you're a wine place Discount Liquor beer that's just really taking advantage in my opinion I don't know what the board feels but I'll just throw it out there I don't know what testimony you're going to provide that would make me say that that's needed additionally clutter yeah it's clutter exactly especially now that you're going to have the there's nothing here from a sign stpoint from a safety thing that says oh I got to pull over and stop to go there or I'm going to miss it so um I mean to be honest I'd really love to see height Staples move one blower I know we can't do that but I think you should take the one one one below Staples and then work through that especially because there's only two stores here does the board agree with me on that yes was approved yeah but probably Fair yeah yeah well they're painting it under so well I I don't think

W are you messing with [Laughter] us I the other thing they were looking yeah you got the visibility from the side I think I think it's more of of clutter but Mr wish doesn't agree with me I I don't think I don't think it's a it's a visibility issue I I think it's it's a logo that they have on most of their locations I if I could just have a representative aut yeah but but I'll tell you right now if it wasn't there if it was only a two pylon you would have done it with and just had Bottle King well Andreas you want to just explain why it's important oh wait before he has to be sworn in raise your right hand Swear To Tell the Truth uh you swear the testimony you're about to give is the whole truth nothing whole truth and nothing but truth can you state your name for the record Andreas corz k r t z representative with so you know what the issue is is concerned about second um why is this important it's just part of our guideline discount Wine Liquor beer is something that we have in all of ourour say 0% it's just part of ourand so so what would you have done if there was only one thing because like Mr wishner did make a good point I think Staples just said oh there you know we'll put it higher and just put put it there without anyone knowing from a standpoint but um but if there was only that one bottle King thing what would you have done well we would have very small bottle King letters and tried to fit this count one

look here on me but the Bottle King will be I think very very small not going to convince me but let me hear what the board has to say um okay that's that's what that's why we have nine people up here all agree or disagree we'll take a vote when it comes to I actually don't like that blank sign on I think I think that's you'd rather see it filled I'd rather see it filled or disappear one or the other I don't I think that look silly I would I would agree with you there we would gladly fill that but I there's a problem what I don't like is the is the is the contrast in the color between the staple sign and the botle King sign I think that might be a little bit of an eyesore see with Sam Ash you had a neutral dirty white type of color so that's not really blinding this might be blinding those two colors the red and the and the teal I don't know again the teal and the yellow is it's your tradar I realized that I'm just trying to think if some way we can make that look less less less less everything you know what I mean want ask Staples if you can it yeah well I'd love to find out if Staples put something on top what was approved but otherwise yeah I don't I don't like the blank I just think that looks like there's a vacancy which is a negative comment we can always tell them to we could always have the landlord remove it because they especially I don't know what was in the original approval back in the day if we can find out and there was only two to me I've lived here 20 years I've only seen two stores there could be other there been there three stores was it the whole thing was PC Rich PC Richards and Staples so there was only two

stores I mean we can look and see what the approval is with it but go ahead jar what are your thoughts I do I mean I understand that it is your um branding I definitely understand that I just think uh given Route 22 and the the sign clutter um I would prefer it without the discount wine liquor and beer but to Aaron's point it does look like there's a vacancy with a blank thing there so I would like the landlord to remove that if we're just going to have Staples and Bottle King I'd like that to be removed okay uh uh I I also agree with Aaron and Sharon I don't like the uh idea of leaving a blank that's just that would be the worst I really don't like this sign at all to be completely honest I think I'd rather have this thing knocked down than a new generation sign this is like you know 1980s kind of like so standing out there would it be the boards just throwing this out there that would we maybe allow the discount wine type of thing if they put a nicer pylon up there if there was a nicer pylon I think that would be more acceptable if the base set it's just like that is like old school and just cluttered and and ugly is the word yes no I mean maybe I was trying not to use that word but uh I I really don't like that what would be worse would be just leaving a blank sign and blacking it out I think that was a mistake on the Aldi property uh not that's not happening that thing's coming either down or new sign going up so Richard uh I think look look at the sun it just looks very dated looks like it's been there for I don't have a problem with three

panels but I don't like the fact are you okay with the words just the I don't necessarily okay I don't have a problem to be to be one I I would be go as far as I would rather see Improvement to that sign and say like trees lining fatum road yeah so maybe there's a compromise here what if the board granted use tonight but not the P tonight we have a meeting April 10th you come up with some sort of nice like we just did if you go look on um Mars Avenue they put a nice little sign pile on nice little Bri thing light shining at it so people can see it type of a thing um because I to me I would think you'd get we'd be more apt to say give you full area like how Mr wishner said but just having a nicer bring it up to date type of sign my only concern is that there there are two other parties that we have to deal with and that's Staples and the landlord um so so the idea would be we Grant the use so you know you can move in you know you automatically have at least the one spot if that's the case from the standpoint we have meeting April 10th where I can we can do the resolution on the same

night so you're not um you're not held up by anything so it's this resolution you gets approved tonight and it's not going to be adopted till April but so what you're saying is that this will get approved with just the Bottle King portion on the sign and if we can come up with a different type of sign King removing the bottom we would have to pull the board so so one of the option is we could either leave just Bottle King and remove the bottom or if we want to continue with the discount count Wine Liquor beer if we can come if we can get the other parties to agree we can come back and present that I'll carry that portion April 10th which is uh three weeks from now it's not too far it's in person here and if we you can work through an agreement with him before so you'll basically know before you come to the board you know some of the feelings I'm sure Aaron loves to attend our TRC meetings you can kind of present to them in advance and if it's more aesthetically pleasing you know I'd be a little bit less on some of the we'd be able to give in on some of that cost to allow um pil you know the brick type of sign I'm sure Mike can send some pictures of what was what's been done that's a perfect model to uh uh to Sure model it after we we'll take a look at that but General green sign yeah is that illuminated so the board will we have to open up to the public but the board can approve the use right now like similar what I just did with uh with raw stores the board did we'll approve the use but we'll leave the sign will be left till April 10th and all of the other improvements that we're that we've applied for that's all going to get left no no that gets approved tonight everything will be approved by the sign except by the sign except the sign and in a worst case scenario come back on the 10th and you'll take you'll come back on the 10th assuming this the board you'll just get Bottle King we'll move the bottom

you'll be approved all right because they can't operate without a a pilot just in case we can't get the other parties to agree or whatever I but as far as an agreement of cost I think figure out the cost of the trees and some of that stuff work with Mr disco and you can kind of Bal I think I've heard from the board that we can balance the you can kind of balance the two out I don't know what it cost to do a sign like that but um we did that sign about a year ago and it looks great it was a big Improvement to that site and actually the attorney that represented them was right behind you too so probably tell you who they use so so let's that's what we'll do so I'm gonna We anyone members of the public wish to speak on this application okay so seeing none I'm G bring it back to the board so I think the idea is we'll Grant whatever variances they need with the exception of just the pylon sign they'll get the sign on the side of the building okay which we vot we'll vote on that well we'll vote on this I'm just trying to summarize everything um they're going to get the two loading docks with the condition of you know no deliveries by that time they'll also be able to work with Mr disco to make sure that the columns aren't going to impede traffic from the standpoint so if anything has to change you have that ability on the on the tenth as well to to work through that uh what were some of the other variances that you had um impervious coverage we took away what else parking technical Park the parking variance which we've testimony the benefits outweigh the detriment height of the sign number of the sign height the height of the sign the number of the sign else the 20% that that the the the the facade not the faad the glass sign count and then on the and the glass or wall with with the with the vineyard we're going to the board's going to deem that that's a variance but we think the justification for that outweighs the detriment that doesn't become advertising at sometime in the future yes so can we run that with that are we able to run that with

that part of the property so if anyone comes adver we're not approving it as as so resolution will be it's not advertising we're deeming it as like a facade okay well what does a Vineyard have to do with beer well it's wine too you know so I don't drink I just want to know what di Coke is served at U Mr wish anything further Richard no okay so can I entertain a motion Mr chairman hold on you're going too fast one more point we have a generator so the normal Protocols of when they're going to test sure so he didn't get to Michael yet so okay so with the generator on site I know they don't need a variance for it but you have to do a norm workout with Mr disco normal hour usually that's a condition so yes it's going to be is a condition during you know nine to you don't touch residential so a little less concerned but we'll come up with the schedule and you can submit it for approval with the board engineer Mr chairman you've covered every point in my letter except for there's one one that we had for the board to consider if we asking for a number of variances and in L would we want a EV charger installed in the parking lot I leave that up for the board to consider can we bring up uh Bottle King guy is this something that you were doing or do you want to can decide that between now and April 10th yeah April 10th great so that solves that problem any members of the public again wish to speak on this application seeing none uh okay so I think we' summarized it I have a question just occur to me um to us or actually to anybody who wants to answer I'd rather be Mr disco okay Mr disco or Mr parking which is now angled parking is that the best use the word as far as well with the circulation of the one way

as previously discussed it's it is the most efficient otherwise you need a 24t aisle to back up it's it's a mix there I believe uh as it is now okay it is a mix because I know I know the staple side is all angled yeah and then along 22 they're perpendicular yeah it's a little it's a little odd looking too yeah and on the side they're perpendicular in the rear they're angled is so for sa for for uh not safety but for space spatial purposes you think that's the best approach well uh there's going to be more traffic there now yeah I mean the the only alternative would be take the uh the parking spaces that are perpendicular and angle them you may wind up losing one perpendic is most efficient because side by side you don't lose if you Le them it may be better for or easier to back in and back out but you may wind up losing one or two do you want to look at that between happy to look at that know and then they're going to stripe the parking lot so on what they feel okay but I mean having been there all the time uh I see usually the between the freestanding sign and the Westerly property line those cars are there probably employees are parking yeah and so they're not moving all day anyway yeah yep well no we can't we can't part of the P it's not part yes it's empty we've discussed um okay so but Bottle

King counselor on the record we're going to put a um condition at the parkings yes okay good and deliveries and deliveries in the front only until the the loading docks are complete but I'm going to that's you're just going to end up causing a no pun intend and a bottleneck up front because as you heard the aisle so with that uh can I have a motion so moved second okay so moved we have a roll call yes yes yes yes yes and to be clear it's everything but the one front sign that will come back before the board on the 10th you do not have to notice right correct anyone here from the public that wish to hear on the signs one pylon sign will will'll hear this on the 10th April 10th April 10th at 6:30 um work with Council if you want to try it'll be two separate resolutions just because it'll be two separate votes but work with Council to get the resolution that night so we can do it that night if that's case you'll be able to see by meeting with Mr disco and Mr mrea at like a TRC to kind of review if if you come up with the design between now and then if it's something that's going to work and this won't cause a delay because I am you know aware that there are time periods that the landlord has given aut King to get these approvals because you the approval is not valid until 45 days after the resolution is adopted and put in the in the newspaper you're saying that you you would be able to adopt the resolution on the 10th regardless of whether or not we'll do both we'll do both so if you come with that just that one sign we'll he'll have you'll know that in advance there's no delay and Council will do a res it'll be two separate resolutions that you'll have to publish two separate ones both will be done at the same time so we'll not delay you okay okay yep

thank you thank you very much okay cool I think that this was the best possible solution right guys that's possible okay seem to just make double meetings okay the last thing before this board uh this is going to be more of a Michael mrea presentation to us uh this is the consistency review of the the Bank of America Redevelopment now again this is not a Bank of America property it is not been owned by Bank of America for a very long period of time two plus years uh for the record um about about a year ago this came before the board for an area of need Redevelopment and the board reached the conclusion that it is an area of Need for redevelopment based upon Mr mista's testimony that the property has had been vacant for a year the businesses have looked at it and have determined that um it wasn't a site for businesses thus far I know that I spent the last two months with our business administrator still ongoing discussions with Starbucks on different sites and this was one that they completely ruled out I thought it was going to be a home run uh of Starbucks going in here slapping a drive-thru and getting a Starbucks there wasn't an option so this site I know has been looked for um could we fit a a business in there and and so far the answer is no so that's part of the discussion um what it comes to now is is does this whatever he's going to present to us fit within the m is it consistent with the master plan to put what Mr mrea is going to be there that'll be the the question we have to answer and at the end one way or another our board counsel will send a letter to the township committee saying is this consistent or not so uh let's go um Mike the floor is yours um and after this um you know uh make we here I want to get some good dialogue between the board but I wanted you to take into account I I you know we did try putting

businesses there at least I know a couple of them didn't work sure all right thank you um very quick some history on the site back on October 10th 2023 the township committee adopted a resolution which directed our planning board to prepare a Redevelopment study on this site so this all started with the township committee back in October of 2023 January 8th 2024 I presented the Redevelopment study to the board to this planning board the planning board adopted the recommendations of that Redevelopment study and it went back in front of the township committee and on April 9th 2024 the township committee adopted the resolution which identified this property as an area in need of Redevelopment um on February February 11th 2025 the township committee introduced this Redevelopment plan via ordinance and referred it to the planning board for a consistency review and the only thing we're doing tonight is whether or not the property is consistent with the goals and objectives of our master plan um I'm going to touch on some highlights of the development itself the development proposal I have handouts that I've asked everybody to share because they're quite large and and there's 30 something sheets per handout so I just thought I would go through it very quickly um the property is 175 Morris Avenue it's 697 Acres the development proposal is for a four-story apartment building it's really a three story apartment building over surface parking that is underneath the the on the ground

level there's a total of 30 Total Rental family units in the development proposal 25 of those are what's called market rate units and there was the the inclusionary component of this is the 15% set aside or the five units that would be deed restricted and included within the development to um go towards the Township's affordable housing obligation you're doing 15 because versus 20 because overlay that we previously that's correct this this project then we have one more behind it and that would essentially conclude our 15% set aside as we move forward with the fourth round plan it is at least our recommendation and this isn't just for Springfield Township but every town that we work in we've moved to a 20 % minimum set aside on every project whether it's rental or for sale but that's all fourth round projects moving forward what's stopping us from just saying 20% right now it's in your or we need so many there's there's nothing stopping you if as long as the township committee adopts that ordinance and we we are drafting those ordinances because draft ordinances are recommend are required to be part of the appendic of the updated fourth round housing element plan that this planning board's going to hear shortly um it has to be adopted by law no later than June 30th 2025 and that will absolutely be one of the recommendations Township wide regardless of it's a for sale or a rental project a 20% set aside um some of the key items in this uh development proposal is there's a

minimum 1500 squ ft entry Plaza at the intersection of Lyon and Morris so that there's this pedestrian area as you enter there's a minimum 1,200 square ft community room and then another 900 square foot community room on the upper levels as along along with the 1580 square foot roof Terrace um the bedroom design bedroom distribution will all be controlled under the the uhak rules uniform housing uh Control Act rules uh they have to comply with uhac so that's really something that's not in our territory it's not even in a Township committee's territory how what's uh the size of the units how many one bedrooms two bedrooms three bedrooms with respect to the affordable units are all controlled by the state uck regulations right now it's a minimum of 20% have to be three a maximum of 20% would can be one the rest are two bedrooms and again that only applies to the five affordable housing units this 20% it would just be six 24 correct yeah it would be the same 20% one bedrooms yeah they still they have the still 2020 under the new rules too as far as all street parking uh it's rsis the requirement is that it's rsis parking and then they get the state EV model ordinance uh that can be addressed the the site right now is proposing 57 total off street parking spaces whereas they've demonstrated in the calculations that they only need 51 so there are six parking spaces overp parked on this concept plan and again everything you're looking at tonight these are all concept plans uh I'll go through them very quickly in a second

but they're attached to our Redevelopment plan this board will should this move forward and this ordinance ultimately adopted the planning board will receive a full-blown site plan application on this development proposal and we'll get involved in all the site plan issues but that's for another evening you look at it's over to make an area where it's designated Future Park but it's approv it's already in my recommendation that I sent to the board and one of my recommendations that would like to incorporate is that I'm trying to pick up we're all trying to pick up as much impervious coverage as we can and create more green in our town we have a site that's fully parked I still think we can get rid of six more parking spaces know that they're there they're not disappearing if they need if they if the need is demonstrated they would pave those and they would become real parking spaces but six of those parking spaces in my opinion can be banked should be banked and we'll see see um if they need those spaces I'd rather have the Green Space more landscaping and buffer plantings on the site than excess asphalt parking um now the reason why we're here tonight consider is this development proposal is this ordinance that was introduced and is this Redevelopment plan that has been prepared for our Township committee our our responsibility is to take a look at our master plan documents look at our goalss and objectives look at our zoning ordinance and identify whether or not this proposal is consistent with our master plan our zoning ordinance and and the requirements of our affordable housing obligation that's why we're here all right and and I I touched upon some of the site plan issues but I don't want to get too far into those tonight only

because there will be another hearing very detailed about all of that information but not tonight um our opinion is and we did a very I thought thorough analysis um in the Redevelopment plan itself which everybody has electronically I'm not sure how everybody if anybody printed it out but at least you had it electronically um on pages 12 through 17 of that Redevelopment plan it goes through a very long discussion of the history of our Master plans this particular property on this particular location of our town within our affordable housing overlay zones along Morris Avenue and we basically did a pretty thorough analysis of identifying the history of our town and in our opinion 1997 master plan the 2005 master plan and the 2017 master plan all have one continuous theme about this particular project site and along Morris Avenue I'm summarizing go it goes into five six seven pages on this but essentially in 2017 2016 the township committee adopted what's called an affordable housing overlay Zone and they located in certain sections of our Township this is this this area along and it and it's all mapped in a Redevelopment area in the Redevelopment plan but this particular site sits squarely within our affordable housing overlay Zone one which is one of the overlay areas that the township committee was required to adopt and

Implement during our third round settlement with fair share housing center it's a specific requirement count ship committee after that settlement agreement was adopted said listen we're generally out of land we have a couple of these projects that we know the inclusionary projects that are still under construction in some aspects in our town but we have this what's called unmet need mechanism we have this massive affordable housing obligation and the township committee said as projects redevelop if they were to be redeveloped for residential it wasn't a requirement this be very clear but if project projects are redeveloped as multif family housing this is where we would want them to occur and this is where we would collect affordable housing unit credits as different areas of our town in the affordable housing overlay area one are located this project sits squarely within that overlay area now why didn't they just go through the ordinance and submit an ordinance and go buy as of right application to the planning board they chose and the township committee agreed to go through the Redevelopment process so I don't think that you would see the app the the the style of architecture the depth of architecture building materials um this does exceed that density and in return what do we get for it we get more affordable housing units we get a much more uh architecturally interest uh interesting building you subit use of uh building materials and design as well as the amenity space that I talked about uh so they went the Redevelopment plan re route the Redevelopment plan has been uh completed it's been introduced by our Township

committee and we're here tonight as a planning board to make a recommendation or advice back to the township committee whether it meets the and is consistent with our my opinion 199 7 2005 and 2017 Master plans so Mike you think it's consistent I think it's I think it's sely consistent with our master plan and it looks to advance the town's obligations with respect to affordable housing at at a few next meeting I've already asked the chairman I need to set up a meeting where I need to talk to our entire board about I'm going to come forward with a housing element fair share plan that's a document that that's required by state law for this planning board to adopt no later than June of this year June 30th 2025 we absolutely have to adopt a new housing plan this is a jump start to that I was getting because of the timing this goes a little bit this technically could come after that but coming before it only strengthens our position as a Township when we adopt that plan Mike Go anything so let's open open up to the board CU I'll start with like look I'm not a fan of more Apartments I'll be very clear we have a lot here I do think it meets the definition I do think that the building looks very impressive this from the beginning I just wrestling with the fact that we have a t of Apartments Springfield does four units really get us there finding a site that we can put 10 so we're not winding up with three of these sit to get to that number that's what I want to consider ultimately from the board standpoint we just make recommendations the governing body has every right to disregard our recommendations incorporate our recommendations take some take none whatever it is so you know from a stand

my thing would be so I I'll open it up for some considerations but my thing would be you know I like the bank parking so at least be less of pervious coverage I mean I don't know why if we're going to do this if we wouldn't 15 maybe we go to maybe the township committee should consider doing if we're so of need of this and we so want to do this why wouldn't we just jump to the 20 for the one more but again that's the township committee but we'll put that in our recommendation my standpoint is I also don't see any Rec Recreation on the site other than the outside similar to what we did with um what was Wolf's project the church Mall Church Mall Patriots Patriots way where they did some sort of recreation offsite that would be something I'd recommend to the township committee that they' figure out payment and the third thing would be look I I don't I don't get involved with the pilot programs the planning board doesn't but you know I think we've heard a lot from the public from social media and reaching out saying you know what are these pilot programs doing in the schools or how much taxes and so forth so just to re you know to evaluate that that would be Miss kessle we'll go this way I completely agree with with what you just said um I don't love the the project um there's just a there are just so many apartments in Springfield already I do agree with Mr mrea that it does fit within our our master plan however um so on balance um I you know I do I do support it yeah my vote would be that telling the township committee is consistent with no doubt about that but to consider you know maybe 15 to 20 uh already talked about the bank parking um some Rec off-site Recreation because there's not Recreation here similar to

Patriot Way and um you know the question of you know doing this adding four of these types of buildings to get 16 units or 20 units are we better off trying to get give a a better density to someone else at a bigger site to get that so we only wind up with one type of thing versus two that would be my thing to the but Al I couldn't disagree more with that uh personally I I don't I I'll start here a exceptional building the the design is phenomenal it would be modern it's a modern look I think I would much rather I think we have a a a strong mandate from the state to get to our affordable housing number uh I I agree that I think upping that straight to 20 so we're not uh doing 15 would be the smart uh decision I do have concerns about burdening one side of our uh school system in our elementary school system that is on that side and where uh uh uh any development going forward would probably put further burden on that school system uh so strongly would recommend some sort of uh uh uh recre uh uh uh whatever we may think of down the road but the idea of doing a higher density project elsewhere versus good smaller uh uh units to me is just unfathomable I would rather have a three buildings that look like this than one may I say ugly Garden Apartments in some other part of town where we're putting hundreds and hundreds of people rather than 30 units here that that seems counterintuitive to me and and and and I would much rather see Parcels of

land slowly developed down our downtown Corridor where we have brand new buildings that are attracting new individuals to the community than putting some monstrosity on another side of town where it probably isn't going to be seen I I just I think we've I think we've Advanced past that I think I think towns in the the the the back in the day would try to do that I I I I don't think that's where you see upand cominging communities uh uh doing I think you see up andc coming communities trying to revitalize their downtown through through smaller projects like this that can be that we can be proud of this since I've been up here probably one of the best designs that I've seen I really like the design is St um whoever designed this uh uh so that that that would be my my take I mean I I I don't know if we're getting business there I I don't know what retail is coming down the pike you know uh I I just I just don't see it um we have a whether you agree with it or not the the courts and now the legislature and the governor have mandated us to get housing crisis yes we have a lot of housing but clearly it's not enough we have a housing crisis in America and and if if any body up here is going to say that we don't well then I would ask that you look to the presidential election where two candidates ran on housing we have a crisis and our legislature and courts mandated I think it's a nice project I think you pass up projects like this you don't know what's coming down and and and and and when it's when you're forced to do something you're probably not going to like the project as much as this that's my comments for tonight uh I agree with Alex I would much rather

see much smaller projects than one because drive around this County go down fi you can't even see what used to be there anyw one of my friends is on the Garwood planning board he's like he they don't know what to do because they don't want to make it into these big block buildings with a ton of people they have a smaller school system it's going to stress everything I do like the look of the building I think it's like you said it was very well plan he did a good job he actually was in here ago his building that's right for his building he did he did a very very nice job on that building too um I you know what Alex says about retail I don't you want to bring people in here you want to get the percentage you need to get but I think this building is good and you probably want to do something small scale not up to us but recommendations to Alex what did you think oh I I I hey uh if we can get 20% in in any project going forward I think is the the move Mr so I think I agree with some of what everybody has said maybe not all of what everybody has said Springfield is not alone in our ability to have to reach certain housing criteria in fact we're one of the majority number of communities in the state that has to do this so this is happening everywhere I think we've all we've all seen that um

no comment on the design of this I think we obviously will bring that up when the when the application comes forward um to Jeff to your sentiment like the more the the quantity of units that get added in my opinion we should be maximizing the number of of low-income units so that we don't have to continue we have to we have to get to that number it's a hard number that we have to get to so however we do that by minimizing the total that we add is is going to get us faster to that goal um so to to what we're here for today which is does this meet the criteria clearly it does so it's got to be 20 okay and in the comment about the school system I can't remember who made it like we're we're in the process of going through a redistricting because of the units that are planned some of which have not come online yet so we are not seeing the impact of that yet we're going to and at some point in the future that that may need to be re-evaluated again everything's on the but that's where the opportunities exist don't serious concerns and unfortun that's just where we need and where we where our Township has prioritize developing is on that side of town it's because that's our downtown definitely seriously so for the master plan one of the things that we should construct our plan places other than south of Mars Avenue yes I agree that he's consistent I think that the Des sign of the building is beautiful I definitely think that we should go for the 20% set aside so that

we can meet that number um I think it's a good project I agree that i' rather have smaller projects than a gigantic building so I like I think we don't know what the future holds as far as these plans and and court cases and whatnot word on the street is that those housing numbers and those requirements may change will probably change also depends on who's going to be our next Governor I mean there's at least one that I know of that's saying we're going we have to stop this over in of our Suburban towns so I don't know what's going to happen so I just have to look at what we have right now I yeah I think we should go for the 20% as well because in case it does happen we have a higher number but yeah and the and the building does meet the consistency as far as the specifically going looking at our plan further I would not jump to any conclusions on that can I ask why is it 15 or 20 is there no higher number I mean is there a reason why it can't be more they don't want to get a wise yes then you end up having I ghetto building oh there's various reasons why people I think I think with this project being only 30 you wouldn't want to go over 20 but if you ended up having 150 units and you give higher density you may be able to get 26 maybe I'm Mis interested are we talking Quant quti or percentage well it would be percentage so in this case five versus excuse me five versus six six it's one extra it's one extra and I would lean towards however we can maximize that number yeah I mean it's up to the toship committee ultimately but that would be our recommendation you had one thing in in the letter that you read that because

yeah M you mentioned something about another thing you want to recommend or at least your report recommended you talk about that though as far as I apologize that was that was part of my uh recommendations that we put in there that we just want to clarify the market rate units the non-affordability the the bedroom distribution may change after they look at the uck rules so I don't want to put them on the spot they're going to meet uck and 15 versus 20 changes things slightly so in all fairness to the developer and the applicant it may change a little bit so I don't want to put them on the spot what I'm what we're saying is one and two bedroom markets and then address you hack it's as simple as that question what can you provide color why wouldn't you want market rate three bedroom uh generally speaking the the affordables will generate and are designed and are supposed to generate family school age children and so forth and that 15 20% if it's 20 to six units will generate X by the rest of the building having one and twos you're looking to try and you you're allowed to control those you can't control the bedroom Distribution on the 20% or on the affordables I should say you can control the bedroom Distribution on the on the markets so most what what we're generally have been coached to do or asked to do is keep the markets as producing as few uh School AG children all right and you do it the ones and the twos and some of them have dens and that's okay um so it's just to have smaller number of

larger families in the buildings that's all generally speaking when you you have to do the affordables right you have to do that bedroom distribution but the rest of the building doesn't have to to be three bedrooms they're there to support and help pay for and construct the other units and you generate a population that's going to you know be young and active in our community so that minimizes okay so unless there's anything more I think the board is in agreement that it's consistent with the master plan that there needs to be some sort of recreation go to the township committee to figure that out when it comes to planning that board recommends that we adjusted from 15 to 20 go with all recommendations that are in your letter so it that's all I have Mr disco before we instruct the attorney to draft that I will remain silent on the 15 okay so with that okay so with that um I just need Mo motion to authorize the board attorney to draft a letter to the township committee no we don't open to the public the comment period for this for this type of matter would be at the commit so that the board will authorize the board attorney to draft a letter saying that it is consistent Recreation 20% to go from 15 to 20% that all looks nice awesome whatever word you want to use and just to remind everybody this is a consistency review should the township committee adopt the ordinance after the public hearing at the next Township committee meeting April April

it's not the next one it's actually the in a first week of April uh 8th 6th uh 8th 8th I'm sorry April 8th is the public hearing on this ordinance and this Redevelopment plan so that but should that be adopted on on April 8th the next step in the Pro one of the next steps in the process is a full-blown site plan application in front of this board and then we will get into all of the details architecture everything else that you see in those handouts tonight so instruct the board attorney to issue that letter we have a week or so before April can I have a motion move second uh let's do aoll call Mr Kaiser yes Miss too yes Mr laford yes Mr cederquist yes Mr wishna yes Vice chair kessle yes chair tiger yes did I miss anybody that's everyone Rich left okay good so you'll send that letter for us perfect and then Jen can get in okay so the last thing we have before we open up the public um as Mr said we need to pull up as a board to hear more about this master plan so what I'd like to do is do a virtual meeting so our next planning board meeting is the 10 that's in person we have two or three applications we're not getting away from that but two weeks later on April 24th assuming Mr Mr is available you can do it at six o'clock it will be a public meeting that the town could be but we will take no business other than to hear um an update on on master plan so we get we have two months left so we need to get through and give some feedback so that works you no the 2 24 yeah 24 23rd I mean we have to notice and do everything but I just want to get the it'll be virtual so anyone could be wherever they need to be they don't you know if people can't be on camera and

are just listening on their phones it's fine too it's an opportunity to start doing some Stu I I think I could do the 23rd yeah good you're not going to get everyone yeah yeah that's fine I know I'm not we could do the we have to have Michael there yeah Michael's the only one what about the the week later on the 29th or 30th I mean again it's up to us this is virtual yeah it is going to be virtual it is 100% virtual it has to be a public meeting we will have to open up for public comment at the end if anyone joins uh fifth Tuesday we have Board of adjustment on the 29th I have conflict yeah what about the 30th as far as I know 30th Michael yeah Sharon I'm good Richard I'm good Scott 30th I'm good 30th 30 30 okay so we'll do either 5 5:30 or six it's better for 5:32 early 5:30 5:30 yeah it's virtual it's virtual again this I will in instruct Jen to publish notice on this but it will only be for master plan only we're not taking any action we will open up to the public because it's the public meeting we're not adopting this so and and just so you know what's coming your way way the housing element is like you're not going to read this I'm not going to hit you with the 100 page document it's all going to be graphics and Maps because what we're really talking about as a planning board is where should where should we rezone parts of our town to address Our obligation so I could I could send you a 200 Page document or I could send you five maps and pictures pies pictures of maps because what we're really talking about as a board and this you know the planning board has adopt this plan committee has to endorse it is location so it's all mapping and I'd like to I could just move through it a little bit quicker and you don't have to

make a decision that night but that's what the topic is going to be for the board's awareness Michel M Mr Weber and I met with the board of education for a very high level overview made them aware of what's coming down the pipe environmental commission as well they haven't given us feedback that we need to get that so it'll be right for us on great absolutely you're not going to get it that you're not going to get it that night if I can get it would it be easier if you printed them on this and then we have as Public Works to drop them off at everyone's house so everyone has the bigger Maps I could do it either way that be that would be better would for this for this thing why don't we have gen print them if it's that far you'll get them electronically and hard copy 11 by 17 so J um no later than a week to 10 days before the meeting that works out better because because they were able to see what what's in depth okay great so at this point um I want to open the the matter up anyone of the public that wish should speak on any old business before us our her Relic One South Derby Road Springfield New Jersey first I want to thank the team that actually dealt with the Redevelopment plan not only did it start at the Township committee with the recommendation and then go to the planning board and Mr mrea and Mike disco and the Town Administrator and the developer all worked um very myself as well of course all worked very hard on trying to meet the needs of the town and tweaking and F changing the building and what have you and the reason why I'm standing here right now I understand there's April 8th is public comment but based on all your comments here I just want to make a statement that I think would be helpful to this idea of the

affordable housing and the 20% and trying to reach the needs of the housing in general um based upon the way the building was structured in actuality and taking away the three bedroom units um there's actually room to put a few more Apartments to meet an affordable housing need that's higher with regard to the building there are six extra parking working spaces so what I'm saying to you is that um no we don't want a massive building we only have 30 units but if we added a few more units to this building we could kill two birds with one stone we could actually help the affordable housing you get the the a little bit more density we have the room for it and it would actually not affect negatively the project you can make it5 that's something you should talk plan because you're doing a site my thing say go big or go home like said but if you can fit it there like Patriots way we should down what I mean if you can fit that that's something that you should talk to the township committee I don't know if it has to come back to us from consistency standpoint again but I think you heard the board we want to get as many as there if you have the parking I would bring that up to and since Mr mrea brought up this evening about losing a three-bedroom market rate one which was already structured in I mean that's why that could become a one or a two and we're not expanding this building by any great propensity but we're actually helping the town with their affordable housing and you know it's a it helps the developer it's across the board it uh it's it was a number of you know we're trying to keep a little bit of

green space on there fully parked um well not it's not over parked but some whatever Green Space they can always contribute trees somewhere else work through that I don't know leave it to you guys and we are fully parked even with adding that and the original project just so you know how much tweaking was done originally the developer wanted 57 units so we're down to you know it's 30 and we're talking about any a few more units I think it works I think you guys will have to decide I think we'll I think we'll talk to the township committee and the township of business administrator and then we'll take a look if that's something that the board would like us to take a look well I I think that we've already made a decision based upon 20% on 30 right that's something to consider it's up to Ian maximiz that's something they feel it has to come back to us then we have a meeting April 10th yeah okay not that was all it was just a thought that this could help everybody actually thank you thank you all right any other members of the public do wish to speak on any all business seeing none I'm going to close this to the public andand it back to the board so remember the next meeting is in person on the 10th I think we have three applications as of now um and then virtual on the 30th have a motion to adjourn move okay all in favor all in favor I