Board of Commissioners - Special Meeting

It's going to be warm.

It's going to be warm. Yeah, I'm sure. He said he could warm his shorts.

It's 1,000 degrees outside.

Time for 6 p.m. It's really important for us to do special meetings now. Call to order. Just there. I got it. so we are going to add a few items to the agenda and thanks to our rock solid clerk we normally believe that we could not add agenda items during a special meeting but we found out that as long as all board members are present or anyone that's not present signs a waiver of acknowledgement notice saying that They know that we're adding things to the evening. We can do it. So for future reference, if we haven't, especially if we need to add something to it, as long as everybody gets present or we get a waiver from anybody that's not here, we can do it. Yay. Yes.

Yes.

But when they're not physically here, they have to sign the waiver even if they're present on the phone. Yes. And so we can add the appointment of the finance officer, a quick update on the Piedmont Gap contract, and a change for First Friday. And so I'll entertain a motion to approve the agenda with said conditions.

Can we add about the rules, the policy about the rules? That's what I originally, before anybody wanted to add anything, she said I couldn't do it. I don't know if I have it with me.

Concerning

So as long as the information is ready and we can absolutely have a discussion on it. Okay. Carmen's going to get it. So we're going to add. Since he's here. Okay. So we have agenda item. And this will be new business, so it will be number four. And it'll be the appointment of the interim finance officer. Public comments. Discussion. Piedmont contract.

Next we've got public comments.

So I'm sorry, this will be A, B, C, and D under new business. P minus C and D is first Friday. any discussion all in favor all right okay so we will begin with the interim finance officer appointment. Mr. English, would you like to let us know what's happening?

Yeah, so I sent you all an email yesterday and working closely with the legal municipalities, talking with their representative. And as you all know, with the departure of Jimmy Overton, who's here with us today, he's leaving on Friday.

You didn't know permission.

I know, I said, oh. She's like, what? According to General Statute 159-24, we have to have someone in this position as a finance officer sworn by oath, as well as bonded. I want to do that sooner rather than later. If we do not have someone sworn in or given a vote by Friday, our finances are in jeopardy.

Not just in Jeopardy. This means the LGC is coming back flying.

Right. And I'm talking to the LGC daily. So I say all that to say we're doing exactly what we need to do right now to avoid what the mayor is saying. Okay. So with that said, we have 20 applicants who have applied through human resources for the position. Now, with that said, we're going to have to go through an interview process. As you all know, they could be anywhere in the country. And so we have to go through and make sure that we get the right candidates to interview and do it correctly and in decency and in order. So with that said, I would like to appoint myself so that we can stay in compliance with general statute. work with our finance team. We've sat down with Jimmy on a daily basis with a list of all the items that are already in place that he's transitioning over to the finance department. I will be working with the finance department every single day. I will be in that office More than I'm in line.

That's not conflict of interest?

In terms of me being the town head? No, I was told, and that's a great question. I was told that if your town, if your town, great questions, your town is 5,000 citizens or below, you could then appoint someone like a board member. But because we are 5,000 citizens and higher, it has to be someone internal, okay? Now there are, according to the local government commission, there are three other towns, three other units that they call them in this region that are without finance officers, finance directors. So that means, We have to be extremely diligent about finding someone because their salaries, of course, are more competitive in some ways. They didn't tell me who those talents were, but we're not the only one without a finance record. That doesn't give us the right to not be aggressive. but just being mindful that those towns are under 5,000. So they have appointed, some of them have appointed their commissioners. In our case, we are 11,000 plus. We cannot do that. So I'm asking the board, and it's a consensus, that you go ahead, appoint me so that we're in compliance, and I move forward diligently saying, going forward to hire our permanent finance director. Mayor, I see you looking like, oh my goodness. Trust me, you have 100% of my confidence and my trust in making sure this process is done correctly and aggressively.

Mr. Porter?

Yeah, no, the only thing I was going to turn off my light, make sure, is we do have Mr. Overton in the room. I know he's taking another full-time position, but if we do this on a remote basis, Assuming it would be under two weeks or 30 days, if Mr. Overton would at least be willing to consult to still support this. Because I understand what Mr. English is saying. I think Mr. Overton gave us ample notice as far as on his end, but it does take time to get a new person. And I don't know, Jimmy, if you're willing to do it. Yes, sir, I am.

Not for free.

Yeah, no, no, no. Hourly rate. So do you mind stepping up just so it's recorded? And we're not expecting you. If the board approves, we wouldn't expect you to drive down.

I would be willing to do that part-time basis to help out in any way I can because the auditors are coming tomorrow and there will be a Thursday. I'm going to be honest with you. We're not ready for it. We just finished the other audit. There's still a lot of stuff, and they're trying to do three years at once. I don't have all three years caught up. And I will be glad to work with you and do what I can to get as much done as I can. But you don't have anybody on staff, and I mean nobody, that can do what I do or even close to it. So, but you have to name somebody as everyone. And I agree with Mr. English, you need to find somebody to replace me as soon as possible. But please get somebody qualified. Now Derek and Nicole, they're very smart and they're very good. They don't have my experience and they've never gone through getting ready for an audit. They can do the day-to-day stuff fine. And I will do my best to help them. I'll be glad to do it on a contract basis temporarily. But I'll probably have limited hours each week I can devote to it. But I'll do what I can if y'all are willing.

So, Jimmy, and I don't know, I know I'm the town attorney, but I don't know everything. Can you be? Can we move you? Do you know of any rule that prohibits?

I know Mr English is willing to serve, but the the finance director must be an employee of the time. It cannot be. Now I can do as a contract person. I can do some of the work, but I can't be the official And I won't be an employee. I will be contracted.

You kind of read my mind. So you can't be finance director of your new town plus a contracted one here. It has to be a full-time employee. Well, it doesn't have to be a full-time employee. Or at least an employee.

But it has to be an employee. And I don't think I can participate in state retirement with two different towns at one time. So I'd rather participate

sold so if the board uh appoints mr english you're willing to consult what would your hourly rate be uh not to put you on the spot but let me think about it i'll tell you tomorrow okay yeah that's fine just make sure we get a 40. you know our finances you know and and also

Anyway, also, I'll be glad to, when you do hire somebody, to spend some time with them and let them know what still needs to be done to get them up to speed.

I'll be glad to do that also. I rarely say stuff like this, but I don't think the board would mind. We certainly appreciate it and commend you for your service.

But I'm going to have to... I'll think about a rate, but I'm also looking at when I get my new job, let's see, I need to probably let you know how many hours a week I'll be able to devote to that. Okay. Well, and last question, do you know anybody? Unfortunately...

sorry madam mayor no no no I appreciate it those are questions that need to be asked commissioner thompson oh I was just going to say about the workload is that going to be too much on you you know what I'm saying no with the staff it's all about making sure that all of our parameters in place all of our SOPs I will be making an offer to our new accounts payable any day, I've had interviews today, so that position would be filled. So now we have a full staff, we did not before. So I'm confident Jimmy has again sat down with the staff as well as myself and gave us a whole list of things that we would be doing. So is there any way that we could bring in a finance director

You hold the position of this morning officer, but we hire contractors to do the work.

So I've had conversations with the CARD. I'm working closely with them right now. They've already started searching on our behalf, so I'm talking with them daily as well, as well as Tiffany Anderson, as you all know, as well as the leading municipalities. We have I've received five retired finance directors in my email box yesterday, and they're all getting back to me with different yeses or noes. I got grandparents. That's fine.

Those are moving towards a permanent hire, I'm saying.

No, these are moving towards like an interim.

Yeah, I'm saying, right? Because then it's... I know you're giving it your all, and I know finance is working as hard as we can, but Spring Lake and finances, just the optics of what's happening right here is dangerous. You see how they turned our public commons into a fiasco. What can happen when Gay Tucker's name starts being thrown around because we're putting somebody in the finance position, regardless if it's temporary or not, that doesn't have any finance experience, any background, we have nobody in there that can do these positions. This is the thing that I'm thinking about because nobody is in the town actually working, but we've got a public we gotta answer to, we've got the reporters who are chasing a story that's gonna be sensationalized. So this is the way we have to move. We have to make sure every single I is dotted, every single T is crossed. We've got deadlines and timelines in place. This has to be, I mean, laid out. And I hope that we are very public and transparent about working with the LGC on this, and knowing, and I'm saying not just for us inside, this has to be a very forward-facing, very public conversation when we're talking about losing our finance officer.

So Tiffany Anderson will be here tomorrow. Any one of you are able, willing... Willing and able. Not just us, I'm talking about them out there. What I'm saying is that's fine. So we can get out something that says Tiffany Anderson will be here tomorrow. If it's something we could do that quickly, I didn't know you wanted that transparent process.

That's fine.

We can get something out to the public saying Tiffany Anderson will be here tomorrow.

I'm saying, no, this whole process, what's happening? Mr. Overton is leaving. We are in a space of transition. I will be appointed as the finance officer.

You can sit down and work out a public communication strategy. I'm just listening to you.

I'm telling you in advance, this is a very, very, very sensitive subject. What seems very easy internally, the public's not going to digest it that way. And so I want to make sure that we are just telling every single possible thing we can disclose so that the public is also comfortable with this transition.

This would be much easier. If we were caught up, we're still waiting on the audience. And we still got work to do to get those audience ready. That makes this transition, unfortunately, much more difficult.

And let me say this about the audience. Because I have someone that I speak to who's going to LGC. Let me speak to the audience. We cannot move forward with the 2023 audit until the LGC approves it. So I hear him saying the auditor is ready, they're coming tomorrow, it don't matter. I have not gotten a green light from the LGC before. So therefore, the auditor for 2023 So we need to pump our brakes and have them come in and focus right now as they approve our audit and get them in here to do what you just said. Work with me directly, as Tiffany is doing right now, she'll be in tomorrow, and we're setting up a timeline, a schedule to begin to work to get someone interim finance director as well as calling to talk at because they're working behind the scenes as well. So all of these things are happening. Everything you just... divulged i've been already doing behind the scenes no i'm not talking about all this but the communication to the public that's that's something we can work on a public communication program we ain't gonna please all of them anyway

I wanted to say, too, that the position that we are in with losing Jimmy, which is a sad thing, but it was a thing that we didn't have plans for. It just happened. So the fact that the town manager is willing to step in and to get into that fight. of what's going on is really great, considering the fact there's nobody else that can do it. So even though we are aware of everything that we have and what we got going on, we can't move until it's time to move. So the fact that you are contacting the call, the fact that you are contacting LGC, the fact that you are contacting any other agents that are involved in our finance is Excellent. You're being proactive instead of reactive. And that's what counts. So I understand our community needs to know, but I'm pretty sure they will understand that this was not a situation that was planned. It was a situation that just happened. And the trouble that Spring Lake is in was in before you came. So we're going to try to figure it out and hope to move forward and do what we need to do. And I know with our due diligence, especially with the capability of all board members on this board, we're going to make sure whatever the community needs to know, they're going to know. So I appreciate you, Mr. English, for doing what you're doing. And I know you've got 20 applicants. You're not going to be interim too long.

No, ma'am.

Again, Winston. just making sure that this is laid out we want to make sure that we're controlling the narrative that happens in spring lake we don't need nobody else telling our story because that's when things get murky and messy and misinformation goes out so when we lead the charge on telling everybody what's happening we get away with it and mixing the stories up and starting to see shit saying that mess and we're not laying out this is what's happening and we need to make sure that we think about facebook

are not the culprits.

We need to make sure that we are not the culprits that are causing the mess by putting stuff out there for social media to hear because that's their personal opinion. Because what everybody needs to understand, not a board member on this board works alone. That nothing can be done on this board without a vote of three. So nobody on this board by themself is doing anything. Anything that is conducted in the town of Spring Lake Lane is because of the board and not the individual person. So we need to make sure that the individual person don't be putting stuff out there causing mess.

uh uh thank you madam mayor well i think we can clear a lot of this uh not so fast mr overton oh yeah so but just to be clear so although this will be a painful process for us and we will certainly miss your talents and experience but you are leaving to go back to your hometown as finance director there is that correct yes sir And that's gonna be the capstone of your career is being the finance director of your hometown. Is that right?

Yes, sir. I called the town manager. He asked me what are my plans for the future. I said this is my last job. All right.

So nothing to get to Spring Lake or any commissioner or... Especially not the town attorney.

But like you said, this is a chance for you to go home. I will. I will. I will. I will.

Do you want to raise Jimmy? We'll pay you more money. Okay, Mayor Pro Tem and then Commissioner Cooper. Mr. Overton. Of course you have the experience

If I should leave, anybody should pass away, or whatever the case may be, you can be replaced. You have done an excellent job with your experience, and we thank you. But it's already been out there that you would leave, and because of the board and with you being hired as town manager, talking about Facebook, we said we've got to be careful who spreads stuff. But I am so glad to know that your dream has come, and God has blessed you to be able that you don't have to travel as far as you travel. I didn't know that you traveled that far. each and every day to come to work.

Oh, it's still 55 miles from my house. Oh, from your other job? Your new job? Yeah, it's just going north to the south. Oh, okay.

But anyway, at least the town attorney have explained it, but whoever wants to listen and write the narrative... the correct narrative about this great town of spring lake and will continue miss jackson to try to work together and me not and i don't do that i don't do that i would never put your personal business out there your personal business or even try to hurt any of y'all i'm not involved in that i don't get a thrill out of that so thank you mr overton for serving and life goes on So we're going to do what we need to do, our due diligence, Mr. English. Yes, ma'am. To continue to move this town forward, no matter what they say out there in the community. And they say some pretty bad, hurtful stuff, but you've got to stand strong and not be a part of the negativity. Because if you're going to work for this town and want this town to continue to move forward, the look is not just on Ms. Sutherland, the look is on the whole board, because we're a board working together.

Commissioner Cooper?

Oh, thanks, ma'am. First, I do want to say thank you, Jimmy, for all your hard work. But I also, you know, I lived the nightmare, you know, after the Gay Tucker, when we didn't have separation and segregation of duties and just nothing getting done properly. And I think it's a really, really bad idea. It's a bad look. Also, you say that we're going to be transparent. I don't know. I don't get communicated with by the manager at all. Except for every blue moon when there's a water leak. I don't get emails. I mean, it's almost like I don't exist. And I don't get phone calls. And regardless of whether I answer my phone every time, I don't get phone calls. And I'll also say that I have not put up any untruths out there on Facebook. And the page that I post on is my personal page. I have a professional page and I have a personal. I'm a resident just like everybody else. And I have never told a lie. I put the truth out there. That is how I run. That's how I am. So, as far as we work together, nobody even calls us. You don't tell us what's going on. You don't tell us when there's changes. I don't know if you communicate with AJ and Venom, but we can't work together if you don't communicate. So, you know, the ball is in your old school.

so before we take any more comments on this we are talking about the finance officer's appointment so we need to go ahead and decide what we're going to do with that um because right now we don't have any other option but to go this way with appointing um our town manager unless there's something else but mr overton and mr porter both agree that this is the way we have to move um and so i if you guys are ready i'll go ahead and entertain the motion too it's a consensus according to oh we don't have to do it it's about just consensus it's a consensus for an appointment you can talk to you can talk to the local government i mean you can talk to the leading municipality it's never a issue to have a vote i would much rather have a vote please please for the record if you need to

I will entertain a motion to appoint Mr. English as our interim finance officer before we go ahead and make this motion

What's the timeline again on this interim period?

Give me a ballpark. A-S-A-P. Timeline. I could get an email back tonight from one of the five. What's the timeline, please?

Why don't we say we'll have a minimum where we address this at the next meeting, which is the 14th.

That's a good idea. And make sure that's on the agenda.

I'm moving daily. We can always have another special meeting.

Absolutely. So I'll go ahead and entertain a motion to appoint Mr. English as our interim finance officer for tentatively until our next board meeting which is the 14th of September. Mr. Burgess.

I make a motion that we vote against English at the interim of our next meeting.

With a D. With a D. Until the 14th.

Until the 14th. Is there a second? Commissioner Jackson? I second. Is there any discussion?

Any discussion, Commissioner Cooper?

No, no discussion.

All in favor?

Aye. Any opposed? Motion carries. Nay.

I'm nay.

I didn't hear Commissioner Cooper.

I said I'm nay. No, it was 4-1.

And then before we move on to the next item of business, could we get a consensus that Mr. English has the authority to hire Mr. Overton within at least a certain range for consulting work? And I assume, Mr. Overton, you prefer it to be 1099? Yeah, you could be able to have it be 1099.

We're giving a consensus to Mr. English to go ahead and put together a contract for Mr. Overton to do contract or consulting work with us afterwards if everybody's okay with that.

And he stated that he would have to check with his employer. Right. And then let us know how many hours.

I'm willing to do it. The question is how many hours I would be. I'm still commuting an hour each day. to and from work. And I'll make it. When I do something this coming week, I need to get some stuff ready for the auditors.

Okay. With that being said, everything that was said prior, that means for the board that Mr. Overton has agreed and we've given our consensus to continue to help out the town in this finance so we're not just blind and not help anybody you said how great he is you've worked with him longer than i have uh so that's a pretty much powerful there and i will also uh sit down with your new finance director and build him you know where will we stand when that person is hired

So our consensus is for Dennis to go ahead and work with Mr. Overton to get all that drafted up and hire him on. So we're just giving Mr. English the permission to do that.

And just to be clear, a reasonable market rate, which I know Mr. Overton's always reasonable with his market rates, on a 1099 basis, which just means he's not a W-2 employee. It will be a contract basis. Okay.

All right.

Do you want to go ahead and do Dennis' oath?

Yes, we'll go ahead and do the oath now then. I already had it ready. You got your Bible? That's a lot.

Commissioner Jackson, you want to come down here with me?

Hold the Bible for us? You guys did it last time, so I said, no, come on. We're going to make you our official schoolgirl again. I brought it back.

Okay, I, Dennis English Jr. I, Dennis English Jr. Do solemnly swear. Do solemnly swear. That I will support and maintain. That I will support and maintain.

the Constitution and laws of the United States, and the Constitution and laws of North Carolina, not inconsistent therewith, and that I will

Faithfully discharge the duties. Faithfully discharge the duties. Of my office as interim finance officer. As my office as interim finance officer. For the town of Spring Lake. For the town, the great town of Spring Lake. North Carolina, so help me God. North Carolina, so help me God.

All right, welcome to double duties.

Thank you.

I'm a little bit stressed in there.

Thank you.

I made a pro tem talk about the great town of Spring Lake. You don't build your bank anyway, so it's going to be okay.

We're going to be fine.

Huh? You said he wouldn't really want to live in Spring Lake. You're moving to Spring Lake.

You respect your town, and you really care about your town, and you really want to be here. You don't want your name all over the newspaper. But if you just want to work here, you're paying for my goods.

all right we'll now move on to our public comments discussion

As you all know, and some have been involved in it for days, I don't know. I try not to get involved in a whole lot of negativity. It's too old for it, and I do believe it. And my faith is my faith, and it's strong, and nobody can question my faith because the Spirit connects with the Spirit. And if the Holy Spirit is not in an individual, they can't call somebody else out. But on the last meeting, and it is noted, and I did call the town attorney to get some advice, and he did advise me of what I needed to do. And he was like, oh, no. And so when I asked that question, Carly does have it recorded. It's on YouTube as well. And my grandkids did get to see it. When I asked was that a threat, when he talked about my ministry, me being ordained, I don't walk around and hold a minister, whatever, because it is what it is when it comes to me, your character, who you are, what you believe, who you believe in. So I don't worry about stuff like that. But coming to these meetings, we need to conduct ourselves accordingly. And in the policy, it's stated up on the board as well, that you can be removed. And I asked the mayor, because it went on too long, because when my character was attacked, anybody's character could be attacked according to this supporter. And I believe that because the community do want to attack your character as well. He stated that it could happen to him, it could have happened to Carly, anybody up here. So we do have to make sure we have in our policies and not give them They have three minutes. They were able to speak for two minutes and 47 seconds to get out everything they wanted to say at this last meeting, so that should have been stopped prior. I asked the mayor, I said, it's getting a little personal, and she did. The town chief stood up and said he would escort it. Now, on that board there, it states it as well, and in our policy, So when I talked to Carly, she said that it was on page number three, on 13, it states here, if you feel like a threat. I asked the individual, was that a threat? She said, no, that's a promise. So if you're well aware of it, Fayetteville Observer, I guess, called Carly, and Carly said you made a mistake to give them some dates of what they posted. At our last board meeting, it was two public comments. They stated in the paper that it was other public comments that was written in there according to Carly that stated. We didn't get anything else stating that it was any other public comments. So I don't know. So I don't know some things where stuff comes from as well as on Facebook. It's talked about the Spring Lake acquisition and it was in closed session for the individual to know how much money that we're asking for. So some stuff we just and it gets after to the public and it gets twisted all around because they get the information from somewhere. But what I would like to see put back into this policy, because Carly stated that this policy wasn't in effect. But on number 13, where it says speakers shall always be civil, Curtis, in the language of presentation and speaking and asking and refrain from personal attacks and or threats directed towards any board member, the mayor, staff, members, you can read it yourself, but anyway, and it's stated up there as well. So they can be asked to leave Went to the chief, he was here, he saw it, because that's what I was told to do, from the town attorney, because I don't think any of us should have any personal attacks. It had nothing to do with local government. As Ms. Cooper just, I'm glad she said that. I am a citizen, and this has to do with flowers. And I don't think it should be brought to the board meeting if it was nothing about the local government. As she stated, she can post anything on Facebook. I can speak. I have a public right to speak, my First Amendment to speak. And never will I disgrace my own self or who I am and my character. But for somebody to be working here to allow this stuff to go on and to give information and false information concerning to keep this stuff going, I don't think it's right. But I do think that we need to put this back in for any personal attacks. Anybody who's erupted to the meeting will be asked to leave or escorted from the town. But she said that this wasn't in there. September 12th.

we do have something about our public comments in our rules and procedures and so the policy was dissolved however um readdressing it and i just want to make sure that we are clear we are residents are allowed to say you're a bad mayor your decisions are terrible, but where in this particular incident the line was crossed and that's when I stepped in when she went to address Mayor Pro Tem's clergy title. That's when it's whoa, you're not in the, you can tell us our policies are terrible, we suck at doing our job, that's legally authorized because it is about the business of the town. But they are not allowed to say I don't like your dog, Your hair color is ugly. That's personal attacks. So anything outside of anything that's directly associated with Spring Lake, I will stop it immediately.

I had to ask you to stop it, though, because she had already completed. She had already completed two minutes. The chief said the reason why he didn't ask, she had 17 seconds left. and everything that she said had nothing to do with the town if you pull that recording out it all had to do personal attack against me and she said she was not finished now i do have a right to be in this community not to be threatened i'm not in bondage i will continue to go to walmart i continue to conduct myself accordingly but i am who i am you are who you are Everybody's who they are. Nobody should get any personal attacks and feel threatened, and you don't know what the threat is. As the town attorney said, if they continue to try to threaten you on Facebook or whatever the case may be, it's a threat. Mr. Poodle?

Yeah, just one thing. Mayor Pro Tem, I do think felt very threatened. She did call me. I mean, so I wasn't here for the last meeting, but I do think based upon the interaction at the last meeting, and again, I wasn't here, but also her personal interactions with this individual previously did make her feel, which I know, Madam Mayor, you were not, you wouldn't have had any history of, but she did feel very threatened. So she was very concerned. which I get it because let me tell you this is just it's not a personal experience but just what happened with some attorneys a couple of months ago that were shot up in Wake County I don't know if y'all saw that in the news and it was seemingly a disturbed individual who maybe had some legitimate grievances but you know she had a quote ran her mouth about what she was going to do to the attorneys and kind of nobody took it seriously because rarely does anybody ever follow through on talking about things like that. And they both got shot in an alleyway between the courthouses, between the old and the new courthouse. They both lived as far as I know, but still I would prefer not to get shot. So I think Mayor Pro Tem's fears are valid, which is why she brings up, I don't think it's just isolated to just what was said. of maybe being more diligent about reining that in. Because in the past, I don't know that it's been too much of a problem. Maybe once or twice, but honestly, if I recall, they were attacking John Rory.

So I did try, when I seen her or heard her directly go into your personal life, and she did cry, I may have missed it, so that's on me. But as soon as I heard her step into personal realm, I said, no, angel.

I appreciate that. That being said, I did want to ask Madam Clerk, what is our current policy?

That's where I was getting at. The first one here was the one from November 19, 2015. The second one was a Back when the LGC was in, remember they were talking about we had to update policies and everything. So I actually did this on my own, the one that has the red. This is the one I did back in 2013. The one that is currently in place is on page 16 and 17 of the Rules of Procedure. You'll see it up here at the front on top, Rules of Procedure. In red is what I am recommending to add to it. Now there is a third section which it looks like this, no red on it, is a revised one from the 2013, or the 2023 one I did due to changes in ethical laws and legal requirements. Now if you look on the agenda cover sheet, I put it in bullet points of what I changed from the one that I drafted in 23 to the one I drafted last week.

so um i want to read through this can we put this on our meeting for 14th and that way we got every time to read revise ask questions and we should be ready to vote and put this in to action on

Okay. But on this board, it also states, so where did that come from? If it's not, it says no attacks. It says it on that board right here. Is that our code of conduct? That's our code of conduct. So my point is, we can't wait, but I don't plan for every time we have a meeting to be attacked.

Oh, and I won't allow it. If something like that happens again and we drift it to first, I will make sure that it's correct.

happened in february a couple weeks ago and the escort people out there they're not allowed to attend those people yes ma'am and just to be clear i know everybody knows this but you know every meeting we always do have our police officer or at least one police officer here that is literally why like we take it for granted and we're like hey chief jarman but you know they're they are here to literally protect us it's no different than uh having a bailiff in a courtroom because we never know uh the decisions that i mean technically i'm not making but i'm advising you a lot the decisions that y'all are making up here and that mr english and myself and miss audrey are advising you on you never know how that's affecting someone in their personal life or what they're going through and so uh It's something we don't like to think about. And even in the courtroom, as an attorney, I can tell you, sometimes we get way too comfortable and forget that it's people's lives on the line. And in here, it may be property or something. Every once in a while, someone will do something. truly uh regretful so uh i understand your concern and we will endeavor and i i spoke to just after i spoke to you i spoke to madam mayor and uh she's going to be extra diligent i think that was just so unusual because we've not really experienced that no no no it was just i've never had to keep anybody else yeah it was just very unusual for the talents for the lake uh but we'll endeavor to be better going forward

Yeah, I've experienced it for 16 years. Somebody did get kicked out because sometimes when people say something, it can incite a riot. And that's what almost happened. It could have happened when we got this room on end. But one of my colleagues that I served with got his house shot up. So when you say, when people say, no, it's a promise. with authority. So it gives me concern that I am concerned and especially when they know where I live and they ride and they sitting up at the top of my street when I've never seen him sit at the top of my street.

I understand. You've let Chief Jarvin know, correct?

Yeah.

Okay.

Commissioner Burgess. No, she lives in Anderson Creek.

I mean, you have to put your

Is there any way, because it seems like a personal matter, is there any way that you two could sit down maybe and talk in Chief's office? She called Chief and told Chief to call her. They tried. We tried. She says no way that she wants to sit down and talk to me. Right.

Because it just. Okay. I'm coming. I will buy lights.

And then just one thing I heard you say earlier about the Spring Lake property acquisitions. The price. Remember we came out of the cold session. We had to put that out to the public. So that's how the price was put out. Because I was the one that did the motion when we came out. Yes ma'am.

Okay, Commissioner Cooper?

Thank you. I agree, nobody should get attacked. We get attacked every day no matter what we do. There's always gonna be somebody that doesn't agree with what we do. But this whole thing was brought to the town manager which made it a town problem. It should have just been possible. It should have just been personal. And it became a lot more than that. So that's where I think the problem is because of how it became personal at the location. So that's the part of the problem. And that was where the problem started. It should have been taken care of there. It's no town involvement. And it'll be done. But nobody, I'll just repeat this again. I don't tell people to come up here and talk about you all. I got better things to do. I got grandchildren. I got a full-time job. And I'm struggling with my health right now. So I don't have time to tell people to come up here and talk to you. So if they're talking about you, it's because of you, not me.

Okay, so I just want to make sure we come back to the topic. The topic started as personal. I can't hear you.

It was personal, and then the manager was called out, so it became a town thing, and the police chief.

Okay, again, I just want to make sure that this is about the public comments policy. discussion and us not taking apart the situation. We are trying to put together a policy.

This is going to go on the agenda for the 14th and that we should have ample time to read through

make any provisions, ask any questions, and be able to vote and put this into action. That way we've got strict guidelines on the conduct during public comments. Are we okay with that? All right. Thank you. Let's move on to our key model natural gas contract. So I'll make this quick. There will be no decisions tonight. I just want to make sure y'all stay in the loop on what we can potentially do next. So we did not get the state funding from our delegation for reasons beyond me. However, we still have this project on the table. So there could be other ways for us to move forward. I have been talking to Chairman Demme here and they, of course you guys seen that they are very, very interested in this project and they are willing to assist. So I would like to potentially send them a resolution on behalf of the board requesting the additional funding. We have already $500,000 encumbered for this. which is the $200,000 from the OS&B grant we got in 23, and then the $300,000 that we allocated in this year's budget, which would leave about $870,000 that we would need left. I asked Mr. Overton to send us all the um general fund numbers to see if we could potentially contribute more and where we stand right now i don't think that's possible we are really already at capacity with our projects going forward so um and i don't know if the county will fund that much but the most we can do is ask i have talked to piedmont as well and they are willing to work with us i've spoken with senator mcginnis as well he's also let me know that he's prioritized spring lake with this with upcoming funding potentially in april of 27 and so we are top of the list for funding however if we don't move on this contract soon we will lose the 1.3 million dollar price tag and for that right there like i said we worked this down from 20 million dollars down to 1.3 so i would hate to see us lose this price they're in shock that they were able to get it this low We've got all of the easements from Fort Bragg. So everything right now, we are at the stage to where we need to sign the contract and send them a check. We just don't have the money that was promised to us. So if the board is okay with it, I would like Carly to draft a resolution. We'll send that over to the county laying out the project and then asking them for the additional funds. Mr. Jackson.

So in the resolution, if we have in there what we want, what we're asking them for, so will it have in there also what they want from us? Because I just don't see Covington County giving us this just to be given to us.

Well, they will. And what they were saying is they would put it under economic development because this isn't just for Spring Lake. This would be able to provide a natural gas line for the north eastern counties as well. So it's not just a spring length thing, this could potentially increase the capacity for the whole county. So it's beneficial for them to help us get this project going. They offer your good. Commissioner Adams come in and I'm like, yes, absolutely am. Multiple commissioners have expressed real great interest in making sure this project happens because that's more tax dollars for the county, that's more growth, that's more expansion. This is a huge move, not just for us, but for our county. And Fort Bragg, it provides a redundancy to Fort Bragg, which is why they were helping us get these easements done too. So this is a win-win for all involved.

So why isn't the county doing it themselves instead of us doing it and then we're asking money from the county?

Does that make sense? I don't know why they didn't do that themselves, but that's a question worth asking. If we could do it the other way around and potentially get the county to take lead on the project and maybe we still contribute to it. No, you're fine. No, but that's a great idea.

I don't understand why they would give us that money to help us and not do it their own selves. But you're capable of it. Beverly?

But that's a really good idea. Did you have a question? I'm just trying to figure out what are we giving up, what are we losing? I know what we're gaining, but it just sounds too good to be true. That's right. Yeah, I understand that, because we're trying to do what we're doing here. So I'm glad when you finally came to for any, when I served. And if it's going to help us for economic development and businesses and stuff like that. But I just want to know, besides what she asked, What are they getting out of it? I heard you say more than the taxes and stuff. If you're going to put in that, what our requirement would be in that portion that you just asked?

So, like I said, ours would be the $500,000. They would do about $870,000 if they're willing to do that. But the benefit, like I said, is economic development. They would do $870,000. I hope. We're going to ask for it. We're going to ask for it. I don't know what they'll be able to do, but anything that's getting us closer to that 1.3 tag, price tag, is good. And like I said, PMI is willing to work with us if we can get an substantial amount of, because the contract actually is only, it says in the contract that they take full payment only and not partial payments, but they're willing to work with Spring Lake because they know we're getting funding from different sources. So, like I said, the only thing, oh, sorry. I got Mr. Porter and then Mr. Cooper.

Just briefly, Mayor, just to make it more succinct as well. My understanding, just in my casual conversations with various commissioners, not in official capacity, but it truly is, I think, the reason that the county wants natural gas out here is because if they can get it in through Spring Lake. Now, yes, there is the question, why are we having to do it as opposed to the county? But I guess that's just where we're at. But they can then expand it into natural gas into areas outside of even our town limits, which would increase, hopefully, industry. And whether it's outside of our town limits or inside of our town limits, It still increases in their minds, their tax base. So that's what they're getting out of it. What we are losing is whatever investment we put into it as far as dollars. Hopefully we would make that up on the back end. If businesses increase, we would get more property taxes. But then as far as what Piedmont is getting, it's just... In my experience with any type of energy provider, they're willing to lose money for the first while because they're going to make money long after you and me are gone. But I think that's what Madam Mayor was trying to say. Sorry. Does anybody have any questions on that? I think Commissioner Cooper, did you want to say something?

Yes. Well, I was going to say, from some of the research I've done, there are a lot of industries that will not come to your area if you don't have natural gas because, like, a steakhouse is just way too expensive to try to cook with a propane tank. So there's a lot of industries that just will not mess with you if you don't have natural gas because it's too expensive.

One of those main industries is the medical industry, and that's one of the things that I really want to make sure we push. We're a medical desert here, and that is so unfair to our residents. It's dangerous. So us having this natural gas line is going to help our school because getting the schools on natural gas saves them money. That's more money they can put back into the schools. There's a lot of win-win situations with this, and so I really... And the doctor, like Mayor Farnsworth said, we've been trying to do this for a while now, so we can go ahead. Let us be the crew to push this across the finish line.

But for this day, you said win-win. I don't want to see, as it was stated, they posted on there, that we're not going to win. I play to win. That's it. I don't play to lose. That's right. So if you said win-win, and we look back on this day, if the natural gas comes here, then... The purpose of it is for us to win. You understand what I'm saying? I'm just saying what I read today. It's not for us to lose. It's for us to win. Because we don't win every time.

That's right. Thank you. Awesome. So if we could go ahead and have the resolution draft and sent over to the county and they'll discuss that and present it to the rest of the commissioners. So you don't want to? Yes, I do. You want to send it to us?

No, because don't you have to approve a resolution in an open meeting? Yes. Okay. I was like, wait a minute.

Usually when we're communicating to the county or asking them for anything, we send them resolutions. And then they'll discuss and they'll send us a resolution back.

And Madam, can you? I'm learning. Can you just run back the numbers for me again? I know it's 1.3. Yes. I'm showing a balance.

$1,340,854 for the entirety of the project. Spring Lake right now, we have $200,000 from the OSMB grant, and then we have the encumbered $300,000 from this year's budget. which is a total of? 500,000 that the town of Spring Lake has set aside for the project. We were supposed to get the rest, the other 800,000 from the state, and the county was still offering us money then when we were planning with the state, so I'm just hoping that they'll dig a little deeper.

I just don't see that in this report. Jimmy, can we?

Oh, that's not in that report. That's in the contract. Those numbers are in the contract. And he also, in that email, in this email, he attached a spreadsheet.

He attached a spreadsheet with all of the numbers in it. So I'll get with him tomorrow.

Yeah, I don't see the 500,000. No, that's it. So in the email, I just said I had Carly put out the cover of the email because it had the roundabout numbers in it or the... roundabout figures so in the actual email that mr overton said he attached a spreadsheet that had all of our um balances in there and that's where in our in this year's budget we have you know a thousand of encumber and then and our attorney um has also he has this and he can speak to anything that may needs to be changed i'm also going to If you can, Mr. English, invite Antonio to our Monday meeting. I want the entire board to see the whole presentation. I want them to see what's coming, what's happening. So if we can get Antonio to come out and do that. I'll call him. Okay, and that way you guys can actually see the whole project and ask questions to the smart people who can answer all of them. And at that time, we can have any questions prepared about the contract. We'll have them in the room. So is that okay? Yes, ma'am. All right, and that was all I have for the peat mine. Anybody have any questions? Commissioner Cooper, good?

You good, Commissioner Cooper?

Oh, yeah, I'm good. I just, you said 1.3. So we have five. And then the county said they would give us three. So that's eight, right? no we're asking the county for more than the three because we're right but but i'm saying originally it was it was three and the um and the legislature was gonna give us eight right so then that's over um eight seven um yeah um my head is killing me maybe i'm wrong i just stopped eight and three it's eleven

So, Commissioner, I think I can clear it up real quick. Originally, I think what Madam Mayor was saying was that we were hoping for basically a budget allowance from the state to make up the difference from our 5 to the 1.3. However, now the county is indicating that they may be willing to make up the difference from our 5 to the 1.3.

We're going to ask the county to make a difference.

We're going to ask and the mayor is going to do a real nice.

The numbers you said we have three, we have five with the three and the two and we asked to stay for eight. That's 13, right? So isn't that the total amount?

Yeah, yeah. So we have five. We asked the state for eight. That would be 1.3, which would have been enough. The state has apparently declined. So now Mayor Anthony is going to ask for the eight from the county. Okay. And she's going to look real good that day and be real nice. Okay.

Okay, that makes sense because I knew the total was 1.3. Okay. I knew it was going to work. All right, thank you.

Of course. All right, and now we'll move on to First Friday. Commissioner Jackson.

Okay, so with the rolls being paid on Main Street, it would be a liability to the town for us to have the event there in case somebody tripped, fell, somebody in a wheelchair, or anything happened to get hurt. So we have made a decision at the special event team, with the board's permission, to move the event along Bruce Street. We went out there, we have a place for the vendors, we have a place for the non-food vendors as well as the food vendors. We have a place for the stage, What you call it? The gazebo would be the man, would be the place for the commissioners and our man post. Each commissioner that is coming will have a walkie-talkie to keep everything going on. It's kind of smaller, but it's easy to contain. We have two officers that will be on duty. The fire department will be there. Jason will be manning the main station. So we just want the board's approval to move it from Main Street to Bruce Street.

First off, thank you for being proactive and thinking about people with weak ankles like me that like to roll all over the place. I'm going to give that glory to Jason. So absolutely, I think that's a great move. Commissioner Townsend? I just wanted to see, do we have to get with DOT? No. West Street is a town-owned street, so we can close that ourselves. All right. Sounds good. You want to make the motion?

I'll make a motion that we approve the sedge. change for first Friday to be moved to Loon Street versus being on Main Street for this coming Friday. Christian Burgess? Second.

Any discussion? All in favor? I'm not ready.

I'm not readiness.

I'm sorry, Commissioner.

She said readiness.

Go ahead. I said I'm not readiness.

What do you need?

that I was so excited when I saw the sign in my neighborhood or out on the street, and I appreciate all that work you're doing, Jackie, seriously. I've had a lot of feedback, a lot of positive feedback, and I don't know, maybe that location will be the new home. But yes, that's all I wanted to say.

All in favor, aye. Aye. Any opposed? Motion carries. All right, I'll now entertain a motion to go into closed session pursuant to NCGS 143-318-1186. Personnel? So moved. Commissioner Thompson? So moved. Commissioner Jackson?

I second.

I second.

Any discussion?

Oh, Lord. I'm going.

all in favor aye motion carries and the meeting is adjourned