Planning Commission, Cac & Pros - Regular Meeting

I'll call to order the planning commission meeting for this evening. It's 6:03 p.m. All right. After that, I'll ask for roll call, please. Commissioner Nent here. Commissioner O'Neal here. Commissioner Barnett here. Chair Donbach here.

Thank you. I would like to point out that Vice Chair Hyrick, Commissioner Oberman Jenkins, Commissioner Willers, and Youth Member Patterson are all absent from this evening's meeting. You didn't You can move down here. Yeah, come join us. We'll gather together here.

I took a shower and everything. Um, now we'll move on to the approval of the agenda. Um, do I hear any changes from the commission on the agenda tonight? If not, a motion to approve, please. Move to approve. Second. Second. Thank you. Roll call, please. Commissioner Nett, I. Commissioner O'Neal, yes. Commissioner Barnett, I. Chair Donach, yes. Thank you. The motion passes unanimously. All right. And now we'll move on to the pledge of allegiance. Ann, would you start us off?

Thank you. All right. Thank you. Um, now we'll move on to comments from the public. So, if there is anyone in the public who has a comment, please come up and state your name for the record. Thank you. Do you want to start the low clock? I have timed it. It should work. But yeah, I I mean, we're so packed in here that I think you

Okay, I'll try to not to talk too fast then since I have plenty of time. Okay. Good evening. My name is Janet Bole and I'm a resident of Sonoma. I'd like to raise two concerns regarding regarding the proposed land use changes to the five parcels commonly referred to as the Sebastiani property. First, according to the city's parcel map, Sonoma has only six parcels currently designated as agriculture. The proposed changes would eliminate two of them, which represents a 33% reduction in the city's agricultural lands. 30 a third. At the same time, the general plan's con conservation and open space element includes as one of its eight stated goals in quote promote and conserve agricultural resources. Reducing agricultural parcels by one-third appears inconsistent with that goal. I therefore recommend that the city retain the agricultural designation for these two parcels rather than reclassifying them as Sonoma mixed use, a category that allows up to 25 houses housing units per acre. Such a change could replace existing green space along the bike path with highdensity residential development, substantially altering current land use patterns. It is worth noting that a petition supporting a more balanced and responsible land use has already been has already gathered 748 signatures from residents despite minimal outreach. Second, for the remaining three parcels, I re for the remaining three parcels, I recommend consideration of lowdensity residential zoning consistent with the existing neighborhood. This approach would still provide additional housing while minimizing strain on local infrastructure. Based on preliminary estimates, higher density zoning could add approximately 500 additional vehicles to the intersection of East Bane and East Fourth Street. In summary, the data suggests that maintaining agricultural zoning where

possible and applying lowdensity residential standards elsewhere would better align with the stated goals of the general plan and help mitigate infrastructure and safety concerns. Thank you for your time and consideration. Thank you. Welcome.

Thank you. Bonnie Joy Klan, 251 Del Rio Po, Sonoma. Esteemed members of the Sonoma Planning Commission. Good evening. I am Bonnie Joy Klan, president of the HOA of Moon Valley Community and a seasoned member of the Tri Park Committee. As a reminder, the three parks affected by Sonoma's plan rent stabilization ordinance and Sonoma's conversion closure ordinance are PBO Serena 127 homes of seniors only. Moon Valley converted to all age in 2009 consisting of 250 homes and approximately 700 residents. and Sonoma Oaks, a hybrid park of 50 market rate rentals not under rent control and 50 owner occupied homes under the Sonoma Rent Stabilization Ordinance. We are working with the Sonoma Valley Golden State Mobile Home Owners League, Sonoma County Mobile Home Owners Association, and the Sonoma Valley Collaborative to update the current 2004 mobile home closure and conversion ordinance, which is already a part of our housing element. To that end, we the Trip Park Committee have engaged the expertise and services of attorney Will Constantine, author of our current Sonoma rent stabilization ordinance, an original developer of the legislative concept of AB2782. AB2782 expands the power of local jurisdictions to adopt and allow more protections for homeowners than what is provided in Sonoma's 20-year-old current conversion and closure ordinance. Mr. Constantine's proposed draft was first submitted to Director Gates on August 11th, 2025 for review and

consideration. Several key points of the memo are why the proposed ordinance is needed now, summary of how the proposed ordinance protects affordable housing and adequately compensates homeowners, and a detailed discussion on selected critical issues covered in the proposed ordinance and its provision for addressing them. We thank you for your time and interest and look forward to a scheduled meeting to discuss this muchneeded update to one of our ordinances that is designed to protect affordable housing and the homeowners of manufactured housing communities under the jurisdiction and protection of the city of Soma. Thank you.

Thank you Joy.

Hello Ann Kichitas. Last time that we were here, we had 20 people with us uh in support of uh of our initiative and uh so we I Anyway, my name is Anne Kichetas and I serve as president of Sonoma Valley GSOL Golden State Manufactured Homeowners League. We're a 65-year volunteer organization that helps shape the uh mobile home residency law, which governs the relationship between park owners and mobile homeowners in the state of California. I'm here tonight to ask you to act on Sonoma's most recent housing element in program 11, which calls for updating the civil code to reflect new protections uh for mobile homeowners made possible by AB2782. And I understand we've had some progress today. So I look forward to hearing more about that. In 2020, I worked directly on AB2782. Even during the height of the pandemic, lawmakers recognize the urgent need to strengthen protections against park closures and conversions. But they also made something very clear. The strongest safeguards must come from local governments tailored to local needs. Sonoma's ordinance hasn't been updated since 2004, before the housing crash, before the affordability crisis we now live with. At that time, parks were mostly owned by the original mom and pop operators. Today, more and more are being purchased by speculative investors and private equity firms focused on extraction rather than affordable housing. We've already seen this, the harm that this can cause right here in Sonoma County. and I run a a a regional meeting uh once a month, a lunchon of mobile homeowners from around the county. So, I hear this all uh firsthand. We've seen the harm this can cause right here in Sonoma County. Harmony communities has created

chaos in Paluma, Santa Rosa, Katad, and now Windsor. Residents there are facing exorbitant rent hikes, closure threats, legal intimidation, and outrageous claims for legal fees. Homeowners at Littlewoods Mo Home Park are currently engaged in the park closure process. Pedaluma's been playing catch-up and managing to hold the line. Their city attorney, Eric Danley, doing a fantastic job, confessed at a recent meeting, "I go to bed thinking about this and I wake up thinking about it." Here in Sonoma, we don't have to be caught unprepared. It could happen here anytime. And that's why we urge you to expedite the update of Sonoma's ordinance to include the protections ABS 2782 allows. It's a smart, timely step to protect hundreds of residents, nearly 10% of Sonoma's population, and preserve affordable housing in our community. Thank you for your leadership.

Thank you. Would anyone else like to comment on something not on the agenda tonight? All right. Well, thank you for your comments. They are well noted. Uh we'll now move on to the consent calendar, which is a sole item to receive the minutes from the regular planning commission meeting on July 17th. Do I hear a motion uh to approve or does anyone have any changes? Comment. I will have to abstain. So, I don't know what that means for the quorum on voting for this.

We won't be able to do the vote. Okay, then I guess we'll move along and um perhaps next the next commission meeting will Yeah, we can bring it to the next commission meeting. And just for future reference, if you're ever absent from the meeting and you read the minutes, even if you weren't there, you can still vote. I did not know that. So, I did read them the minutes, but I didn't get, you know, the whole meeting out of it. Do you want me to vote? Well, let me ask you a question. And do you have any questions about what you read in terms of the minutes? No. And I did watch most of the video as well.

All right. So, should I make a motion now to um approve the consent calendar? Do I have a motion? I so move. A second. Second. All right. So moved. Roll call, please. Commissioner Nent, I. Commissioner O'Neal. Yes. And thank you for the education. Commissioner Barnett, I. and Chair Don. Yes. Thank you. The motion passes unanimously. All right. Well, that was that'll enhance our efficiencies.

All right. Now, we'll move on to the public hearing portion of tonight's meeting. The first item is 4.1. It's a request for continuation of the public hearing uh to the planning commission meeting on September 18th to consider certification of a final environmental impact report. uh adoption of the mitigation monitoring and reporting program and making the findings including a statement of overriding considerations and design review, density bonus, demolition permit and parcel merger to allow for the demolition of an existing single family home and the construction of a 50-unit multif family residential community uh including 13 affordable units located at 19320 Soma Highway. And so, um, I I guess it's just a motion that that acknowledgement that we'll move this to next to sometime in the future to September 18th.

Yes. And I so move. Second. Second. All right. Roll call, please. Commissioner Nent, I. Commissioner O'Neal, yes. Commissioner Barnett, I. Chair Donbach, yes. Thank you. The motion passes unanimously. All right. Moving right along to item 4.2. This is a discussion, consideration, and possible action to approve a modification to a use permit for an additional guest room in a bread and a bed and breakfast at 688 Broadway. So, I'll turn over to staff.

Good evening, commissioners. Associate Planner Jake Dunn. So, I'll be discussing the modification of a use permit for an additional guest room in a bed and breakfast at 688 Broadway. The property is located in the Broadway corridor in historic Overlay. It's 7,775 square feet and zone mixed use. The surrounding properties are also mixed use as and uh have a range of businesses and residences around it. The project proposes adding an additional guest room without any modifications to the structure um and no renovations to the inside of structure as well. The residence was previously approved for a commercial beauty salon and the on the bottom floor which will no longer be in operation. The site plan here shows the highlighted additional guest room on the second floor which is in that master bedroom. The owner will occupy the bedroom on the first floor which is where the beauty salon used to be. The property also has a separate cottage that is used as a rental at the rear and a carport located next to it that serves uh both of the residential uses. The previous permit approvals included a reduction of two off- streetet parking spaces and the uh additional guest room will not require any increase in the parking spaces as well. So the applicant doesn't propose any changes to the structures and so it won't affect their conformity with the development code. And in accordance with the use permit findings, the proposed use is consistent with the general plan by promoting and accommodating year-round tourism and encouraging homebased businesses. The use is allowed in mixeduse properties and additional the additional room doesn't impact its compliance with those standards and the additional room will not require alterations to the existing structure. So it'll be compatible with the surrounding property. Still staff recommends a planning commission approval of modification for a use permit at 688 Broadway and approval of section 15301 of state secret guidelines and staff's available for questions.

Oh and the applicant is available as well. Yeah. Before one moment just before we start um uh does any commissioner want to uh discuss any exparte communications with the applicant? No. Okay. I see. Uh we will move on to questions from the commission uh of the applicant. Thank you. Or the uh um staff. Um, I'm K Dur and I wonder if you have questions, extra questions. Anyone? I don't.

No. Okay. Thank you. All right. Now, I will uh Thank you for coming. Now, I will open up to public comment on this agenda item. There's anyone in the audience. Seeing no motion, I will close public comment and move on to any comments from commissioners before we mo move for a motion. Um, I like it. I think it makes sense. Um, one slight change I'd like to remind everybody, we say primary bedroom. We don't say master bedroom. So, um, but other than that, I'm in full support of it.

Anyone else? Um, I I would agree. I mean this is inconsistent with us trying to um continue the uh bolster the economics of our area especially in the hospitality. So thank you for coming forward. Uh one more comment. Well, given that um uh unless the rules have changed since I owned a bed and breakfast which I sold in 2013 um uh generally approvals for bed and breakfast in the city can be up to six rooms and uh this is currently operating one room adding another room really uh poses no unusual circumstance. So I have absolutely no objection to it.

Hearing that, do I have a motion? I move that we approve the re uh uh modification of the use permit for additional guest bedroom and a bed and breakfast at 688 Broadway. Have a second. Second. So moved. Um so may we have a roll call? Commissioner Nent. I Commissioner O'Neal. Yes. Commissioner Barnett. I. Chair Donach. Yes. Thank you. The motion passes unanimously. Congratulations. Thank you.

All right. Um, moving on to the next item is 4.3. This is a discussion, consideration, and possible action to approve a use permit for agricultural production and a produce stand on a residential property at 479 Church Street. So, I'll hand it over to Jacob.

Yeah. So, like you said, this is for the use permit for agricultural production and a produce stand at 479 Church Street. The property is located in the northwest planning area. It's 7,500 square feet and zone residential low density. The property is surrounded by multiple land uses. So, that includes mixed use and residential with commercial businesses that are bordering the property. You can kind of see that in the image there. There's parking lots surrounding it there. The project proposes small-scale residential agricultural production for the sale of flowers and succulents. The owner plans to sell on site to local businesses and at farmers markets. The area used for agriculture will be located in the existing garden beds already on the property and no construction or modifications are proposed at the project site. The site plan here uh shows the locations that are going to be dedicated for flowers and succulents to be grown uh for sale and highlighted in blue. A metal stand is depicted in the front of the residence which will be relocated next to the entry pathway for accessibility purposes. You see that where it's circled in red. The applicant doesn't propose any changes to the structure on the property, so it won't impact uh setbacks or anything like that. Um so this item does need discussion due to the standards set forth for produce stands. Proto stands are intended to be an accessory use to a primary use of residential properties and section 19.50.0.0 or 070 sorry has three requirements that are expected to be met. So these include first the agricultural production taking place on site or on an adjacent parcel which is under the same ownership. Second is the area devoted to agriculture is at least 50%. And third the produce stand is owner operated. And I just want to highlight the staff report incorrectly states that the requirements for one and two were met, but it's actually one and three have been met. Um the use permit the use is permitted in two zones, residential hillside and residential rural. Uh while

it requires a use permit in residential low density zones. So for reference, each of these zones has varying lot sizes um or lot size requirements ranging from 10 acres to 7500 square feet. And the residential lowdensity zones have a limited law area um that is even less than what a 50% of the rural zones would be uh or need to require provide for agriculture. So requiring 50% agricultural area on residential density only intensifies that agriculture component on that site whereas agriculture component is supposed to be accessory. So the space dedicated for that uh could be considered limiting when it comes to the property's ability to use it for residential primary use. Um so if the intention of this section is to allow it as a accessory use then it might be necessary to amend the ordinance u to reduce the total area required for agriculture production on those residential low density sites specifically in those zones. And um looking at the use permit finding requirements, the proposed use is consistent with the general plan by reinforcing distinctive qualities of Sonoma with an agricultural use and encouraging homebased businesses that are producing agricultural commodities. Mix that word up a lot. The use is allowed on residential lowdensity properties, but like we talked about, it's doesn't meet a section requirement A2 for produce stands. Um but if the planning commission finds that in order to promote smallcale agricultural production on residential properties uh reduction to the standard might be necessary. The proposal also doesn't uh require alterations to the existing structures and maintains the existing site configuration. So it won't uh impact the neighboring properties or impair the character of the zoning district. Staff recommends planning commission discretion for the use permit to conduct agricultural production and operate the produce stand. And staff also believes

that if the planning commission finds section 1950.070 needs revisions, then they should direct staff to amend the ordinance, which also is slightly different than what the staff report recommended, just so you're aware. Uh but staff is available to answer any questions. Thank you. Uh is the applicant here? The applicant is here. Yes. Okay. You're welcome to come up before we start any expire take conversations with commission members and the applicant. Okay. So, um thank you. Now, I will take questions from the commissioners.

Couple of things. Um I wouldn't want Well, would it be permissible for us to grant a variance tonight and and then also recommend the modification of the uh code so that it in the future if the commission agrees um the 50% requirement isn't necessary.

Yes. The way that we worded the approval of the use permit was with this modification that you would be allowing this use. Um not specifically with the variance findings as this site doesn't meet those specific findings. Um it's the code itself that is the concern and that's why I'm asking can you so we we believe that you can make that and with that direction that we amend that code to reflect the ability for um this project.

Okay. But but we don't know what the number is going to be in the amended code. I don't want to hang up or hold up this application while we wait for it to conform with the letter of the law and I don't see a way for us to approve it without a variance at this point given that the ordinance says what it says and so to me the better and cleaner path is to technically approve it with a variance

and then and then request that staff update the ordinance and we have a discuss discussion on the commission as to what that update might be because at this point I don't know if it should be 10% or 25% or any percent. I mean it kind of depends on the nature of the business as far as I'm concerned. Okay, we can do that tonight. Okay. And the second question I have is which block of Church Street is this on? Is this on the block that um is is um in the behind uh West Spain Street um and uh First Street West. Second Street West. It looks like it's right next to Wells Fargo Park.

Fifth Street East. Fifth Street West. Oh, excuse me. Fifth Street West. Oh, so this is parking lot is So, so this is the portion of Church Street that's on the west side. Okay. Thank you. Any other questions for the um All right, curious. So, you're doing succulents and plants and beautiful. That's what you're going there. If you were to do um something that was consumable, vegetables or things like that, maybe in a plan down the line. Does that have anything to do with

um I wouldn't I'm already like in the floral world and I work as a floral designer and so I I already am growing flowers and I have most of my life. But now like I can sell my flowers to the shop I work at and other shops too are interested in purchasing my flowers and I might have a stand sometimes, you know. Okay. Because I'm in a popular area and if there's like a large crowd of people in that area, I might

So, also in order for you to sell at the farmers market, she also has to have a use permit from the city to allow her to grow um her flowers, which she's growing in her backyard. So, it's kind of like a whole combination of things to get her county permit to sell. She also needs our permit from us. But, but to answer the question, technically she if she did want to grow some vegetable she with this permit, she could she could grow anything with under the agricultural permit including flowers as horiculture. Thank you, Commissioner O'Neal.

Um, my question is on the same vein. There's the flowers on Seventh Street East and she just puts out a cart couple times a week or once a week or whatever. What What is different? I know that's county. That's not No, that's city, isn't it? That is city. County. Oh, but Oh, but the park, the tsunami, the park, which is across the street and down further. We own that, but there's that gap there. Okay. So, that's county. What are we talking about that's different though with just being able to put a card out and sell whatever you want to sell versus doing a use permit on a property where it continues with the property.

So, there's a couple of different things. One is um we have a specific code section just for produce stands. So, it's not really about agriculture. It's more about the produce stand itself and it occurring in residential zoned areas. So you're not in an agriculture area with a produce stand in front of your agriculture site. This is a produce stand in a residential neighborhood in most cases and you know people walking up and down. So you're operating a commercial enterprise in a res residential. same thing as we require home occupation permits if you're, you know, we have some people like um that have like a a hair salon or some other kind of oneperson service um and we allow that with a home occupation permit. So, we do allow businesses, but we require additional permits. In this case, the city has required a use permit for a produce stand when it's in the RL zone. Um we do require a use permit for the agricultural growth. So that you'll see that that's for both the use permits for both aspects of this use. Um and it's just a way to regulate commercial and our residential. Um I think with the changes it won't be it'll be there'll be some changes around produce stands but um the fact that somebody has to to grow such a large portion of their lot to be able to sell in front seems like an interesting connection. I'd be curious to know why that occurred. Um but if we're looking to encourage urban agriculture um and its opportunities around that, I see this and some additional um future code amendments around to help with more urban a in our community.

Yeah, I I I wanted to explore that a little bit more. I you know, none of us probably under know the intent of the 50%. Um, and so I'm curious, um, you know, if you have any initial thoughts about how you might amend not the full, not only for the urban, but also this idea about do we need 50% um, or would we be amending um, various aspects of this code?

Sorry, I turned it off. Um, I don't know that we would have a percentage. I think that if you're growing it on site, like making that the connection, but how much you grow, I'm not sure what the intent of defining how much of space needs to be dedicated to grow in order to have a produce stand. Um, I'd be interested to see what others would think about what that connection could be. Um but you know definitely making sure it's owner operated on-site kind of concept um and that the agriculture is being produced on site I think potentially is another point of you know discussion versus just bringing we don't want people buying things from other places and then selling them on there right so the idea is for growing and selling on and making it available Um, but we would look at other examples of urban a ordinances around the state and see what they have as well to provide you examples.

And just as some reference, the with this one, it's about 17% of the site would be used for the agriculture production. So if you're trying to get a frame of reference for how much is going to be occurring here at least with this one.

Well, we're sort of leapfrogging into the discussion of the ordinance changes, but I just want to add that I think um uh the discussion of percentages is um going to be interesting because I don't think it applies actually at all. you can create a hydroponic uh garden that takes up very little space and go up vertically and produce a tremendous amount of produce on a very small portion of property. So I I think I don't know where the percentage thing came from and it'll be interesting to go back and find out when the actual ordinance was drafted and adopted and whether there's any record of the discussion but um I think it's outlived its usefulness as many other things have as technologies have advanced and ways of growing things have changed. So

yeah, something else I made sure I wanted to state in there is that the general plan does promote agriculture on residential lots. So um so I don't yeah I don't know where that connection came for the 50% on the residential lots um when we're trying to promote smallcale agricultural production in our in on what we already have as small lots in the city. I would think it would be code by organic growth where um which is, you know, good that we're bringing it up so that we can address it. Uh any other questions? Uh okay, Commissioner O'Neal. Um Misty, are you the owner of the property? Yes.

Okay. So, um if if you move out and a renter comes in, what does that do to the use permit? Um, not that you're anticipating moving, but I just want to make sure we understand it for question for staff. Gosh, I mean, I've never thought of moving out of my house. I know. No, it's for staff. I I don't expect you to answer that. Oh, yeah. Okay. Thanks. Generally, permits go with the land. Yeah.

So, by granting this tonight, we are we changing a land use? Well, there's that owner occupied piece that you were discussing in there, and that's the piece I think that would be important, but I don't know how anybody would actually monitor it. It's also uh lease, so owner occupied or lease. Uh, so that's whoever's growing. Yeah, whoever is there living on site. Okay. Thank you. Any other questions? All right. Thank you. Um, I'll open it up for public comment if there's any this evening. again. See,

seeing none, I'll close the the public comments um and ask commissioners if you have any other comments on this topic. Commissioner Barnett. Um I love it. I mean, what's not to love about this? I wish every house in Soma did this. This is so cool. I'm so impressed that you did it this way rather than just setting things up and having code enforcement come. And I'm sure the code enforcer Bob Smith is also really grateful because he wouldn't want to shut this down because it's cool. So I I have to say that I'll be in favor of it.

Commissioner Bernett. Well, I'll make a motion to uh uh approve this use with the uh adoption of a variance uh and to direct staff to bring back the ordinance for review of its provisions in the future. Second. Second. So, the motion uh goes to roll call. Commissioner Nent. I. Commissioner O'Neal. Yes. Commissioner Barnett, I. Chair Donbach, yes. Thank you. The motion passes unanimously.

It is. Well, these are all wonderful things, right? Um, all right. And now items for discussion. This is where it gets really exciting, everybody. Item 5.1, discussion and consideration of draft changes to the design review exemptions related to awnings and similar structures. Hand it over to staff.

Okay. All right. Next item. All right. I'm jumping right into it. So at the last meeting I had highlighted um a missed opportunity in our design review ordinance um after uh somebody came in and was asking about awnings and I was like you know that's something that we should have talked about. So I I'm just focusing on awnings in this one. That's the one I could address like as quickly as possible. But I also um had somebody ask for repainting and I just wanted to clarify also in the repainting. So this is also for discussion. So it was repainting of buildings and structures is exempt. And then a specific section underneath it was more specific to the paint colors being consistent and compatible within um for our historic sites. Um, and then around the awnings, um, adding something that they would be compatible with the overall design of the main structure and to not obscure or negatively impact the architectural or character features of subject building. And then again, if it's listed, um, that the awnings would not exceed the width of the storefront opening or associated commercial window opening. And then I added an I modified another section of the code in this. So we have a code that talks about signs and awnings, mares, canopies. Um I was adding the word mares because we do have a few mares in town. Um and it's in regards to projections into the public right of way and it's where we had some specificity around clearances. And so I um added some code language around um how high

um and how far from the face as far as like not getting within 3 ft of the curb was already there, but just adding a little bit more detail so that the portions of any permitted awning canopy or marquee should not be less than 8 ft above finish grade. Um that way the valance can go another foot down. Um, so that would be at uh seven feet. That the horizontal projection may extend to three feet. That was already in the code. That no portion of an awning shall be higher than the window sill level of the lowest story. So the intent of that is that if you have a one story, it's really coming the window sill. It's not covering the whole facade of the building. Um, and then also that it wouldn't cover any kind of mezzanine level or extend up. um into an upper level um or cover any belt cornness horizontal molding. So again, getting into those architectural details that it sometimes could cover up that we're trying to not um and also just kind of set an overall height expectation of not more than 16 feet if none of these other um aspects are occurring on a on a building. And then also if we have peers or columns um that define storefront bays and that we wouldn't cover those up. So again maintaining awnings that kind of help continue the def definition of bays within our structures and not just do a one big solid uh awning all the way across. Um so there's some in town that we have where the whole building is covered wrapped in awnings. Um but on um if you look around town also, we see where each individual storefront or bay is has an awning that comes out and it's

just within that space. So that's what it's kind of defining um is trying to set that up. So when we had talked previously, we had said if I gave you more detail, then you would be maybe more apt to allow um staff to approve awnings. So this is just for discussion. I this is some text for you to consider, but this is not the ordinance being at this point. I I'm not giving you the ordinance for approval tonight. Questions? Um, Commissioner Vard,

um, if you can go back to your previous screen. Um, I'm a little concerned under seven when you use the language negatively impact the architectural or character defining features of the subject building feels a bit subjective to me.

Okay. Um and um I'm wondering or hoping that we can uh better define what is meant by obscuring or negatively impact. I think you do that interestingly enough later on when you talk about a building with columns. you get very specific and so on. And um and it may be that um that provides the way of of doing it which is to enumerate the elements of a piece of architecture that uh potentially could be negatively impacted by a canopy or some such addition. Um, and maybe I'm I'm thinking too hard about it, but I just with this emphasis in in the uh development code on uh on nonsubjective standards. I I guess I've become sensitized to it.

Comments. Are the words awnings and canopies interchangeable or are they two different things?

Technically, they're different things. Um, so I forgot to add the word marquees in here. Um, those are all actually different things. Um, so where we have written them is that canopies are more like awnings. Um, canopies extend typically further out. Um, but we in our code are saying that you can't have posts holding up any of your canopies or awnings or mares, but you see canopies usually as over entrances. Um, and then the mares are the long thicker uh structural elements where you see like like in the theater that's a marquee on the front of the theater. to commissioner.

Um couple of um comments. Um I'm not understanding why we would limit the awnings to not exceed the width of the storefront opening or commercial or associated commercial window opening. And you did mention that there's some in town. Um it would be really helpful for to for me to have some pictures and just like it'd be great if we had pictures of some of the ones that are around town so we can I don't know. I I could just understand it better. No problem. Thank you.

Yeah, I'd like to follow up on that. What, you know, with regard to um awnings um over windows of like second or multi-story um is is that language that that uh Commissioner O'Neal just described meant for those where it's it's kind of aligned with the window? Yes. And I can provide an example. We do have a couple in town that go all the way to the top of the building. Um, and then we have others that wrap the buildings. Um, so I can show you different examples and then ones that are actually within the opening themselves so you can kind of see what those differences look like.

And and then I just wanted to follow on um, Commissioner Barnett's um, comment around negativi negatively. I mean, it would be very helpful for staff to go back and and articulate what you had in mind with the word negatively so that it can be more objective. Um, does the uh issue of lettering or signage on the edges of a canopy fall under the sign ordinance? In other words, they accumulate or contribute to the total number of inches or and sizes permitted for signage. What what's the treatment of of printing or other information that's that are are words on a canopy? So the words that would occur on an awning or a canopy or more key would be considered signage and it would be part of the sign ordinance. When we're just doing an awning without any signs, then this would wear this would apply. Um so in some cases we do have people that just have awnings without actual signs. Um, and just to clarify that the address, like if they put the address number, that won't qualify as a sign because it's required um under the fire code to put addressing. So, we don't have the limits on that. The fire does. Um, but uh we're going to work with them and try to figure something out of where placement is recommended. I have one other question regarding color of the awnings and um how would

would that be determined? I mean conceivably um someone could take a very architecturally um an architectural period um and just modernize it. Uh and I'm just wondering how staff is thinking about that in terms of color. So we are just in this sense of color would just look at the overall design and you know usually they're everything's matchy matchy I would say with the trim and the awnings and the signs. they typically have the same schematic. And so that's something that we would look for is just maintaining um overall design um in their choices of colors, but we're not going to we're not specifically recommending any colors, including in the repainting of buildings and not providing any direction on that.

Okay. Thank you. Any other questions for the commission? Any comments? Okay, one more. Does this in any way help us with the hot monk giant tent that goes up every winter? No, this does not. Um, that is a temporary tent. And so it's a temporary use permit that's issued for a year. Um, and so that would fall under that section of the code. Um I the reason why it's so tall is because the trees inside.

Well, um I know it's not on the agenda, so maybe can we talk about it tonight or um I recommend that we don't. Okay. Um but would love to have that one addressed so that it's not quite so hideous. Okay. Any other comments or questions or requests for when I bring this forward?

Uh first I need to open it up to for public comment. Correct. Um, so any public comment on this? No, I'm seeing no. So I'll close public comment and um open up for any comments by the commission, right? No comments other than um I think it's a good start and you've heard some of our input. So um I suppose the next plan of action will be revisions and bringing it back in front of the commission. Thank you. Can you turn that off?

Okay. Um, we're moving along very nicely. So, now we're at the 5.2, which is a discussion of the general plan ad hoc committee comments on available draft general plan elements, which include the local economy and the community noise elements. I'll turn it over to staff. Okay. Um so this item is the beginning of um the conversation around the ad hoc committee's comments on the available draft general plan elements. So we're going to start with two tonight.

Can you tell me first who's on the ad hoc committee? Yes, the ad hoc committee consists of Commissioner Willers and Commissioner Donbach. Okay, thank you.

And so um these are the two elements that we have discussed um as a group and the comments were attached to what their comments were and before you are these comments and um I don't know if you can see things. How clear is that to you guys? Okay. Um, so in it you'll see some text um, let me back up for a second. So each, um, my the climate action commission and you all have formed ad hoc committees um, for the general plan review. So those ad hoc committees are going to review each element and then um discuss it together and then present to you and this is what this is what those comments are that been discussed. you'll see my name on comments or notes because as we discuss them, I might add a few other comments for either me to look back at or to provide clarification in the future with when I basically coate everybody's comments into one document to provide back to um the consultant. So I'm going to take commissioner comments from this commission, the climate action commission, the general plan task force, if the other commissions participate as well, um and then the public. And so all everything gets coalated and um into one document at the end that I'll give. What you see for you all is what um Commissioner Willers and Donbach discussed. And you can see that's where I was going with there. There's a little bit of red and the red's not coming as clear.

Okay. Um my eyes don't see it very well. Um so that's some of the changes that are um being recommended and then also as I stated there'll be other text um written in and then um comments that I may make to um make sure get addressed moving forward. So what I've proposed to do with climate action commission, we did four elements at our last um meeting is I go through it basically um in the element by section. Um I'm not sure how many of you had a chance to review before tonight. So I need you to tell me if it's too fast, but what I would say is um do you have any comments in this section in the introduction? And then if none then I just move on to the next section and are there any comments or things you wanted to discuss in the background information and then that way you as a group can discuss those. Um otherwise we would just move forward with um Commissioner Willows and Donach's comments to move forward as planning commission comments. Does that make sense? Okay. All right. So, the first section where we're seeing some commentary is around the background information. Um, and um before I start into all of that, I know that there was some concerns from Commissioner Barnett about this element. So, I'll just go ahead and start with does anybody want to have just general comments before we get into the weeds of the actual element about the local economy element?

Scroll if you can scroll down a little bit. I believe you're addressing some of the concerns that I had and had expressed. So, okay. Um, so in this um bottom part is, you know, really talking back to what are our key trends in local economy and how do that, you know, what's our risk to achieving these goals. Um there's been conversation also in some other places around um our community and where we look to in the future. Um, and so I think these were one one piece I don't see in here

is the uh changing patterns of work with namely remote at home uh working um and uh and the impact that will have on this idea of uh recruiting or finding uh or bringing employers to Soma with highpaying jobs. Uh I I'm not sure if we're ever going to see another office built here ever again. And with that and the other things mentioned, the concerns I had, you are you are attending to.

Okay. All right, ready to move on to goal number one. Okay. So, this section just highlights um the goals and then we'll get into the details of the goals and um we are as we go through there may be some additional changes in the goals that then will need to be reflected um within these little summary paragraphs. So, just um you'll see some of that change later potentially. I have a question. Sure.

When I was reading through this earlier, um, one of the things that I was curious about, and I'm wondering if you've addressed it, was an audit of the commercial, uh, spaces in Soma and the vacancy rate around them. Um, and I'm wondering if you know our I think it said in there earlier that our um sales taxes haven't been increasing and I'm wondering how much of that has been impacted by vacant properties and we've come to that discussion before about trying to do something about the vacant properties but I think it was complicated by the fact that we had the Matson situation here as well and I'm just wondering if if there's some opportunities there if we look at the vacancy rates and how we can address that issue. Okay. I'm going to keep moving unless I hear more. Okay. So, the first goal um is to maintain and promote historic character um of Soma. Um, so there's a lot of edits in this section. Um, and some commentary around u more around not just historic charact. Um, I also intend to pull um more information around heritage tourism. That was something I was really focused on when I was in school. Um, I'm a mainstreer, so I believe in historic preservation and economic development. So, pulling in more of those concepts into this um is my intent as well. More policies around that

Um, a comment as I see the pedestrian and bicycle oriented design. This is referencing the plaza. Um, but I did hear today that the county is going to be putting the number tracker things in on Denmark where it crosses Napa Road to Berndale and on Burndale further as it crosses 121. And it's going to be this weekend, Friday, Saturday, Sunday. They're looking at whether or not there's enough bicycle and running traffic to actually put in some safety measures. So, if you're at all interested in there, that get out on your bike and your feet and go over it a few dozen times. With your safety gear on,

yes. Uh, I saw something. Do you want me to go back up a little bit? There was something where there was a word that was needed correction. It said with the city, but it needs to be within the city. It is uh LE 1.5. There you go. There it is.

Okay. Okay. I I have a comment on LE1A.

Okay. I need to know what the hell the work with the Chamber of Commerce is currently that we're continuing. I am unaware of anything that I would consider to be um uh a collaboration on the economic development strategy. What I we I know we I know we are providing funding to the Chamber of Commerce to the tune of 100 or 150,000 a year. I don't know what it's for. It was instituted originally to support the activities of a business development person so the city didn't have to hire someone at its payroll and pay benefits. And the decision was to pay the chamber to hire someone. So Lori Decker filled that position for a number of years. She never identified candidates of companies to move to Sonoma or businesses to open. The chamber may have been helpful to some businesses who wanted to get started and needed to find out how to get a business permit, but I don't think I don't think that's rocket science. Um uh and Lori Decker left the chamber years ago and nonetheless the city has continued to provide this funding to the Chamber of Commerce. I I need to know before I can approve something that talks about continuing to work with the Chamber what it is we're actually doing at this point because I'm unaware of anything. I'm not saying the chamber doesn't do things to promote businesses and to help businesses, but that's what they're constituted to do. My question is, what is the collaboration with the city of Soma? If the collaboration is simply supporting

the chamber in its efforts to help businesses, then then let's at least acknowledge that's all it is. Mhm. But if there's something more going on, I'd like to know. Okay.

I mean, um I I totally agree with you and thank you for that comment. Um because that's what um my next com is the blue comment about trying to do something proactively. And if those funds were originally meant to hire a a business development director and we still don't have that, I do think that needs to be re-evaluated and those funds appropriately used for that purpose because that is the same as reactivating um the economic development commission and creating this development strategy. So I just want to um you know support what you're saying, Commissioner Barnett. So, I think what I'm hearing and what how I would edit it is that kind of a combination. We'll continue to work with the chamber to do X, Y, and Z, but we need to create an economic development strategy and whatever that looks like with whoever's best suited to do that.

Well, as I say, I need to know what work we're doing with the chamber. What are we doing with the chamber? Do you know? So you don't know I have the scope of work. I know that part. I know what I'm doing with them. Okay. So

I'm what I'm doing with them is more around business education and getting permits and things like that. So I've been trying to work with them to do updates to their website because they're the ones they're the first touch most of the time to new businesses when they come in. And so trying to make sure that we're on the same page about what the requirements are and so more around the education. Um there I there is a city council economic development subcommittee I believe that will be meeting sometime this year um to go over their scope of work. I know we're trying to set that up. Um in general what you see here are the things in the scope of work. So um not the incentive part. So that's where that's an economic development strategy aspect. But um it would be more about working with the chamber of commerce to um educate new businesses, you know, do business retention and expansion. Um so I I can write out more of that thing, those aspects of what we currently uh scope with them for the hundred thousand. But but when we think about the next 20 years um I mean you know I I do think we need to do more than that. I mean if we're trying to envision like where we want that where we have to have a a road map of where it is we want to go. So we do need to create it but we also need to implement it.

So right yeah so this I mean we just do it. Yeah. So just this is going to be create and implement an economic development strategy. We're not going to identify the who because it may not be them. It may be somebody else. Um but maybe another one is then continue to work with chamber and then um it would be more focused on the business um retention education and expansion. they're pretty much our liaison between the city and businesses. But

but I guess part of that also requires that we re-evaluate the funding because if the funding was originally for a business development person, um that might be something that this new economic development strategy suggests to focus on. And then that would also mean that we'd have to re-evaluate the funding for the chamber and what it would take for the scaled down operation of retention, education, expansion. Yeah, I think that still provides you that opportunity to do both.

I mean, ultimately what the city provides to the chamber in terms of economic support is beyond the purview of this commission. that that's a city council policy decision and they're the ones who are going to have to decide that for their own reasons and um I can't speak to what those reasons what might be at this point but I can imagine a variety of reasons why that would be a for lack of a better phrase a hot potato to consider. That said, um I think that um uh rather than well I I think the this notion of continuing to work with the chamber um it would be better served by rephrasing it as explore opportunities to work with the chamber because I I I am as yet unclear as to what it is that we're continuing. If it's helping the chamber understand how to get a business permit, that doesn't require any f funding and it doesn't require um I hope any great amount of time on staff's part. U I'm assuming we have printed materials for new businesses at city hall that explain to them what it is they need to do. We do, don't we? We have business license form.

Okay. Well, I I I think it's certain part part of our part of our economic development strategy would be to have a howto guide for business in Soma, which could be a simple pamphlet with steps one one through 10 or whatever it is of what you need to do. So um anyway that can be part of the uh business development or economic development strategy. Okay. Okay.

I'm sorry. Just go back a little bit. Okay. determine if TID funds can be used to determine you have an extra two in there uh to bring economic advisors to generate a proactive econom. This is more of a note for me to look at. Sorry. Oh, it's more of that's okay. I more of this

I um I've I'll I'll stop. I have very strong feelings about the T and the $2 million a year going for tourism promotion when the city has a budget surplus of $200,000 that it's all excited about and just approved a 10-year extension of the TI for $2 million a year when it could have been a 1% for $1 million a year and it all started at $400,000 a year when I was on the city council. I I I am I'm stunned by that choice of the city council and makes me nervous about the council's willingness to spend money um when it doesn't have any, which is honestly the situation the city's in. So, so some of the notes and comments um are in the blue. Um and some of them are more notes for me to look into.

And the notes notes in blue indicate what? Um just some comments. They're the comments from the ad hoc. Mhm. So the word smithing is not there. So um the ad hoc committee the two of you first of all thank you. Um and how regularly are you guys meeting? It's about once or twice a month now as as the um elements roll out. Um and then we we'll also start the code at some point which we haven't done. Okay. Would would there be value in having one of us join you sometimes at those meetings?

You're welcome to join the ad hoc. Okay. Yeah. I just think that it's such an important area and you guys are doing an awful lot on this. You were absent that today that we did all the ad hoc. So, we just volunte. Oh, I like this one. But you can join this one. There's one opening. Yeah. I Okay. Yeah. Okay, I will send you our next meeting. I like the idea about finding ways to make money. Well, it's going to be more than just that. We've got other got a lot more elements. I've got some similar comments about LE1F. Okay.

Work with the Sonoma Valley Visitors Bureau. We not only work with Sonoma Valley Visitors Bureau, but we pay them a $100,000 a year. I have nothing against the visitors bureau. They they have an important role to play. I'm not sure why we're paying them $100,000 a year. I remember when we started paying them $100,000 a year back in the early 2000s. Um and um there seemed to be a good reason for it at that point in terms of recognizing the challenges of visitors, visitors serving businesses in Soma. Um the newness of the internet and uh new technologies and uh expanding the capabilities of the bureau and helping them get up to speed on technology and so forth. But now it's 2025. I think you know we're you can buy a laptop for 200 bucks and uh the internet is something we all use every day in the emergence of AI. I mean if you probably went on to Google right now and said you know tell me about places to say in Sonoma you get a nice write up on Google's AI. Um so work with the Sonoma Valley Visitor Bureau and other organizations. If I understand it correctly, the visitors bureau U is the contracting agent for the TID with the that does the advertising placement. For that, the visitors bureau receives 15% of the revenues that get used for promotion. Now, those of you who are math wiz can calculate 15% 2 million. Why is the city of Soma paying the

visitor bureau 100,000 plus free rent at the Carnegie Library for the last 20 years? Once again, this is a council decision and you know, gee, we we all love having a touristbased economy sort of and it's certainly beneficial to the city and we want to see it sustained and grow. But um but that's that what the T does is attract overnight visitors. It's not the city's job to attract overnight visitors and it shouldn't be the city's job in my opinion to fund the visitors bureau that's already being funded by the TI to attract overnight visitors. It's just that it's just that simple. And so I think the wording of this once again is, you know, I'm not really sure what it means. Uh what is the city currently doing to work with the visitors bureau other than paying it? I mean, maybe this should say continue to pay the visitors bureau $100,000 to promote tourism. I mean, at least that would be honest. I don't know what work means.

Um well, I mean, I didn't change. I just added some comments with Bill, but I mean I would agree. I I think this could also fall under this general um strategy to come up with what we want our economy to look like and how what are their roles in those strategies. Um and um you know that might be a more a more directive uh language to use um and and again to identify new opportunities Do you want to go back up?

We're not putting selenoma in there. We were just discussing Interesting spelling there of slow. I just realized that. I think there's a W missing in there somewhere. I mean, if it's slang, it's slang. Slow. We're not putting it. I'm not putting this in a W. There you go.

Okay. on the page above that. Um I I'm intrigued by that idea for expanding the hours for uh tasting rooms because our plaza is so dead at night and you go to Napa and it's so lively. So I just I find that really intriguing and worth exploring. Well, and and you know, my granddaughter, who's now going to turn 18, um would agree with you about it being dead, and her complaints about nothing to do in Sonoma for people her age is legitimate. There is nothing to do. And uh she spends time in Santa Rosa and Paluma where there's things to do. But um but you know these are all ultimately functions of um economic development. In other words, if the city wants to create a venue for younger people that has nighttime music or dancing or other gathering places, that's part of that economic development strategy that has to be looked at overall. in terms of the native population. Earlier in your introduction, it points out that the average age of the residents of Sonoma is 52.8, which means there's a lot of people older than that. You know, come nine o'clock, I'm ready for bed and and so are a lot of other people who are in my age group. So, um you know, the plaza is never going to be hopping because we don't have a big enough population of hopping people. We're hobbling people, not hopping people.

But how do we get more hopping? Well, it it you could have a hopping business, but if you don't have hopping people, you're not going to have a business that makes maybe we can have walker races around the plaza. Sounds Sounds great. No, my my granddaughter brings up things like u god, what's it called? It's It's something like a wrecket room. Oh, yeah. Rage room.

Rage room. Yeah. Where where you basically you you spend your money to buy an hour destroying things. Uh hopefully in a safe environment, which actually, you know, kind of sounds like fun.

It's very It's very gestalt. Yeah. All right, I'm going to move on to two Have we defined sustainability anywhere?

No. Um that one is um going to be mostly in there's be parts of it in conservation and then um also in the land use element. I'll just say that there can be, you know, it's there can be economic sustainability

and I think that's that was the idea here is that um I mean the way that two these were written were you're talking more about that but um and I think the comments that we made were around defining those standards what those standards are but uh I think part of the also the economic um that's what evergreen means. You you tagged it or define it but that's exactly it's it's what what are you doing so that the economic development strategy does not become brittle but can pivot and can be you know and can change so that it's it's being sustained into the future. So I just wanted to follow back to that that comment. Well, if I can just add a few few ideas here. Um, I mean, the notion of sustainability includes within it what it is that you want to sustain and and if you if we don't identify that which we want to sustain, then the notion of sustainability doesn't have much meaning. So, if for example um the preservation of recreational open space is something we want to sustain. Then sustainability would be policies, land use policies and other policies put in place to protect and preserve and to ensure that the accessible recreational open spaces controlled by the city of Sonoma continue to be viable, well-maintained, attractive, and promoted to the public and visitors alike. Now that would be s a sustainable strategy.

Um I I think in the absence of of in some way delineating what it is that we want to sustain, the idea of sustainability is just uh just sounds good, but it doesn't have any practical application. There are certain things that I wouldn't want to elevate to the standard of sustainability. In other words, it may be that the economic sustainability of of Sonoma would be a an effort to uh reszone land and bring in big box stores. To me that wouldn't be sustaining anything except the money flow which if this is an economic element and we're talking about sustainability and economic elements you know what are we willing to sacrifice for the issue of economic sustainability

if we if we establish some parameter about what it is we want to sustain in other words if and now I'm I'm speaking admittedly from my bias if sustaining ing our small town character, which I would define as generally quiet, less hurried, safe in terms of a public safety and um and surrounded by healthy open space. If that is what we want to sustain, it's going to limit the decisions that we make about what the economic stability of the city is. And we have to also look at this. When we say the economic stability of the city, are we talking about the economic stability of city government? Whose economic stability are we attempting to satisfy? Obviously, government needs to have the funds it needs to operate. There's no question about it. It is also an insatiable m of consumption in my opinion. I'm not blaming city staff. I'm not I'm just blaming the times we live in. The fact is the cost of living goes up. the cost of employment goes up. 75% of the city budget is employee costs and benefits. We're on a inflationary cycle, an inflationary curve in in terms of the relationship of government to the community which seems unbreakable. Um, every year or every two years there's increases in the cost of government. We can't seem to to get out of it. We're spending more money on consultants than we ever have before.

And I don't see this trend breaking. So what is economic sustainability? Is it sustainability so that uh the city's financial wherewithal can return that money back to the community in terms of civic improvements? Is that what you want to sustain? Or are we talking about sustainability so that we just can maintain fire and police and everything else is s everything else is expendable. I mean this is this is something we have to we have to decide and it may have impact on the nature of our strategy. I think all the rest of that, the uh city of Davis and the clear objective standards, green blue infrastructure, that's all great. This may be where we could also bring in what you were talking about with the commercial like what's the available commercial sites. Uh, I was thinking that

I'm curious about the about the um vocational technical curriculum because it's it we're on a very fast track now that we're recognizing that our youth are, you know, most of them are not um they're they're not on a path to go to four-year college. And so and we have no they have no other options. Um and if we we train them and we provide them with the opportunities to develop the skills uh they have some really terrific futures and we just don't provide that in this community in any of the communities. But it's becoming very very clear that um college is uh it's not necessary nor is it really the path that most young people choose. It's cost prohibitive. um they don't want to be in that environment and uh I would I would focus on how do we get these what is that what are we providing for them that they can have they can choose different paths it's it's critical and following up on that as we look at school consolidation this is a school board issue I know but if we end up with an empty campus I wonder if we couldn't have a vocational center Yeah, I'll just say that I I think I think there's a huge opportunity that Sonoma could be like really known for this um and uh would be somewhat unique and draw potentially draw in um you know more skilled workers and and even workforce or folks that um or businesses.

Well, just as a general comment, I think the u I I've said this before. Planning for 20 years is ridiculous. It's impractical. The world is changing too quickly to even think in 20 20 year terms. Um five years is more realistic, 10 years at a maximum. But here we are trying to come up with a document for 20 years. I mean, who would have predicted 10 years ago that uh AI would already be replacing jobs all over the place? Um, and that's just at its very beginnings. I don't know how a young person today plans for a career. I really don't. My granddaughter was thinking of of something in the medical field, but even the medical field is undergoing huge transformations and u things that used to appear to me to be a secure and interesting career path um are questionable. um even in fields like law and accounting and that all these areas that um used to require individual expertise and people skills are are succumbing to technology. So I don't think we can answer that answer this question particularly well and and I think we're not alone in it. our whole culture is going through um a transition and transformation that's that's highly unpredictable and um uh I think the a question that would be worth looking at is what I falls under the category of resilience.

What are the skills and uh capabilities that this community, when I say this community, I'd say the city of Sonoma and the Sonoma Valley in general needs in order to um feel like it is effectively planned for resilience. What we do know is that we're going to encounter repeated shocks to the system, both natural, economic, political, and technological. And they're all going to require some kind of response, and they're all going to require some kind of resilience. If it's a natural disaster, it's going to be do we have the capability and the skills at hands to provide for ourselves in the case of a natural disaster. I mean, the police and the fire department are only so many people. They have families that are honestly located in other communities. We can't necessarily assume that they're going to hang around Soma because it's their day job if their families are threatened in Lake County or wherever it is they live. So, what what does a community need in the case of uh an electrical grid collapse?

Hey, you know, you you made me think of something. Yes, our firefighters tend to live all over the place. Guess what? We also have firefighters from all over that live here. And wondering what we could do to kind of like tap into that. I mean, my nephew is a firefighter in Oakland. He lives in Glenn Ellen. His next door neighbor is a firefighter in Oakland. He lives in Glenn Allen. My neighbor off of Dale is a firefighter in Oakland. He lives here. So, yeah, some of our firefighters live elsewhere, but we are an attractive community. We're a community that people that don't have to commute every day really do uh want to live here and firefighters don't commute every day. I mean, that's that's something maybe we're doing already, but I wonder how we could perhaps enhance it. Well, I mean I think one thing you've done is to identify the skill set of people who reside in the community, meaning the city and the valley. Um who in the case of an emergency, you know, can provide the expertise and talent we need to help recover and be resilient in the case certainly of a natural disaster.

They do. They were all here in 2017. Okay. So, and they brought all their friends. And do we know who they are? Oh yes. Okay. Well, that's great. So, if the if we know who they You may know who they are, I'm not sure if the city firefighters know them. They all know each other. Well, that's good. Now, we need to have an official list that's that's available to to people.

Um and and you know, you know, that's just one example. I mean, we could end up in a uh food emergency. Um there are all kinds of things from from which we need to find resilience to be able to support each other and to keep the the community from collapsing essentially in the case of a very unanticipated terrible situation. So I'm not sitting here tonight saying I have the answer to this question. I'm saying that that when we talk about what opportunities we can offer to the young people who live here or what career paths might be and so forth, we can also think in terms of not just the rosy future that people can have, but what is it the community will need if it runs into trouble and what kind of skills are those? What are the talents? I mean, we have people who grow food. Uh, do we have a database in the city of of our local farmers? Do we know who they all are? We know the ones who are part of the farmers market. I don't know if the city of Sonoma itself has a database of all the food resources we have around.

I don't think most people would give you that information. You don't? I wouldn't. Well, we'll find out, I guess. I I When you're talking about building resilience, though, you can't have resilience if you don't know what you have to rely on. if you don't know what your assets are. So

I can make a comment that I do think there um and as we move along I do think there there is a network of people who understand what organizations in the valley provide food for people that is a that is that has come together. There's a food navigator there's a there's now a network. So I think that if we could elevate this a little bit um I mean I think what we're hearing here are a couple of things. One around resiliency is looking forward knowing what the trends will be predominantly in these areas and kind of building policies or programs that there where we can use our local resources or to to fulfill some of these trends. I I do want to say that 100% I guarantee you in 20 years people will need to live somewhere. they'll need to drive around in something or get somewhere through transportation. They'll need to to eat. So, I do think there are things there are skills that are around people and place and living that um are those skills that we can look at in addition to understanding what are the risks or threats that layer on top of that. Um do you want to make a comment?

Elder care is going to be a big one. Yeah, we've included more around aging and aging in place um in some of the other documents too with the other commissions, but we didn't noted in here as well of the senior. Um so this last bit is just around mostly the eight street corridor comments.

Yeah, I had a comment on this one. Um, I like the idea, but I think it's impossible to implement partner with local hotels to charge a climate sustainability fee because people will just lie. Um, they'll look at MacArthur Place where they park out in the street and they say, you know, oh yeah, I came here on EV, don't need a charge. So, I think it's I I'm always dubious of people. So, I think it's a a good goal and I think it's something a discussion we can have with some local hotels to see how they feel about it. But I think it'd be a really difficult one to police.

We had talked a little bit about the development of like it more around the green incentives and so um we could reward it in that way. Um we also talked about um you'll see you're seeing more hotels. when I booked my flight, I saw it of where they're doing um uh basically green dollars where you can just tack it on if you choose to kind of thing. But just providing that as an option even is a better than nothing at all. And um regarding the 8th Street corridor, um I would like to see included in that that giant building on Highway 121 at the corner of 8th Street that has sat vacant. When was it built? Six years ago,

the 250,000 square foot warehouse that was going to be the Amazon distribution center but wasn't. So I mean that's an economic opportunity if businesses do go in there. employees go in there. It's not in our city limits, but it's certainly right there on that a street corridor and that's 250,000 square feet. It's huge. So, I don't the for the for lease for sale sign is still sitting there. I don't know if anybody's ever had a conversation with any of those brokers, but I think it'd be really interesting to talk to those brokers and say, "Okay, what could what could we as Sonoma work with you on this to try and get this place leased or sold? and the the taxes there would go to the county, not to us. But I still think it's an opportunity. Okay. All right. Next one. Economic diversity. Um so comments are more around just expansion to be more complete thoughts on policies. Um the who, the how, the what. And again, some of these are leftovers. So like the established four corners, that's left over from the last journal plan.

Yes. So, a lot of these are leftovers um that we haven't done yet, accomplished, checked off the box. So, they may not be applicable. That may not be I mean, I still think four corners is the gateway to our city. What that looks like could be different than what was originally envisioned 20 years ago. Good.

Well, the the um rather than saying establish four corners of gateway, I would say develop incentives to establish four corners. If the city doesn't have something to put on the table to essentially uh outside interests who see econ econ an economic opportunity there, nothing's going to happen. And that's why it hasn't happened because the city has not stepped up as a player. We we you know we're full of ideas and aspirations and we don't ever put any money on the table.

Um remind me which is the cross street in four quarters. Is it Levon Levon Napa? Okay. And uh this has been in the general plan since the first one I worked on in 1993. So it's 40

94. I mean I it's uh the u the lodge was supposed to be the beginning you know the sort of anchor for that location and was supposed to revitalize that whole section. Um, at one point there was a deep discussion about the positioning of that stone building that's on the on the lodge property that faces uh the street. And there was in the original plan it was positioned somewhat differently and it was repositioned to create a public park space available to the neighborhood. Subsequently, uh, a couple of years after it had opened and gone through its transitions as a hotel, an application was put into the planning commission at the time. I was no longer on the city council to construct a stone wall that essentially barricaded that building and the so-called park space from the street. I never understood why that was approved because one of the conditions of approval was the creation of a public serving space at that corner which has no public space. And lo and behold, it got walled off. And now to that insult to industry in injury, they erect a tent during the rainy season and hold events and weddings and things in the tent on the other side of the stone wall that you can't get past. And that's what happened to our gateway. Then you add that that Mr. Matson bought the building across the street, now

housing artifact design and salvage. and that building's up for two and a half million dollars for sale apparently and but has never been improved and it's just basically like a an old warehouse inside. I don't know who's going to buy that or for what. Um, you've got Don's Auto Service Smog Station across the street on the uh south side of the intersection. He's apparently immortal and and uh I still see him around town and uh every once in a while we have a little conversation with each other and the property looks just like it did 25 years ago. Exactly. And then you got Broadway Market on the other corner, which um I'm grateful for. I'm glad Broadway Market's still there and can make it and they have their clientele. And you know, it it looks like uh 1935. And that's our gateway. What are you going to do?

And it's not within the city limits. And it's not in the city limits yet. Um, they make really good sandwiches. They do. They do. I like I like their meatloaf sandwich and they have a really good wine selection. Oh, I didn't know that.

But but ultimately, you know, the the way this game is played is is that the city's going to have to pony up some money and until it comes up with a pot of cash and can say, "Okay, if you want to do buy this Matson building and put in a a bowling alley, I'm just talking off the top of my head. we'll help you because we need something like that. But if we can't come to the table with something to offer, it's not going to happen. Okay.

So I would like I would suggest that that a recommendation would be to develop incentives for the for the development. Oh, there you go. Thank you very much. Yeah. And along with 3.6. I mean, I think this can be rolled up into that

economic strategy. Yeah, because it's pretty vague right now to re new retail spaces. Retail is getting killed. I I don't know if the idea of new smaller streetf facing retail spaces is a viable idea for the future. the retail spaces we've got are just they're they're suffering terribly.

Again, I think there's an opportunity um to have some kind of development plan that that is strategic. So, people need coffee, people need, you know, local things. that if if a strategy is around walkability um and we're building out that corridor with some apartment buildings or there's a plan on West Napa to have housing with some kind of retail space. I mean, that's a strategy where people will still need brickandmortar spaces, but we have to have a strategy around it.

And it may not be re retail in the sense of like a clothing store or things that we would buy. I mean, we now have an an empty big box um that we're going to figure out what's going to go in there. Um what's that one? Right. Aid

apartments. Um, so I think but going back to what you were saying of like what we do see coming in right now are um where do we get calls? We get calls of course for wine tasting, coffee shops. Um, we just got the new flower business down where Jacob's um front of Jacob's. Um, we're not seeing like traditional retail really at all um in this area, the plaza, the core in Broadway corridor. Um, but I did have a conversation recently. Um, so we have these small little like at the farmers market, we have all these little small businesses, mom and pop businesses that do look for spaces. So there is there seems to be a need. It's just the cost, right? So, it's the incentives and how do we work that out for just little popup places where people can where somebody that the soap lady that's at Tuesday night market that she could go have her booth within a space. She can't afford the whole space, but she could afford a booth within that space. And so, a group did come talk to me about what are those opportunities here. Um, and so I pointed them in the direction to talk. Um, but that would be something that could be really um, useful, especially in winter season, holiday season. And I wonder if the chamber could help with that. But like a makers market kind of place where you have several retailers sharing the small the expense of those all the time in the city and in Oakland and stuff

and some of them fly and we have some of these small spaces that have been vacant for a long time that could fit like six little vendors in it. But again, it's about working out what that cost would be with these vacant spaces that have been vacant for a long time.

And and I'll tell you that I personally tried to do that with a space that used to be G's and the owner is one of the banks and they refuse to budge on the price and it was specifically for a maker mark like cooperative. So I do think we need we need the chamber to step up here and help if if the city can't mandate what the rent is. But other than, you know, trying to figure out that vacancy fee, um, you know, this is where we we actually need some heavy lifting from the chamber to make those kinds of things happen.

So that that sense of the co-op space, co-working, um, I think there is an opportunity for that. I think we do have a lot of people interested in their individual business. that just can't afford to actually have a storefront. Which bank? Chase. It's Chase. Chase, why don't we uh if nothing else, do a social campaign and try and encourage Chase to change their behavior. Well, that would be a great thing for the chamber to lead, don't you think?

Okay. So, this is where we're getting into a little bit of that with the more locally produced and kind, you know, and this kind of goes along with what we saw today, too, with the produce stand and she grows her own flowers and wants to do more in the farmers market world. What in the world? Okay, it doesn't want to go up. Okay, moving to the next one. So, I've had mixed reviews about having housing in the local economy element. Um, my understanding and kind of the connection between bringing this into this as a goal in the local economy was providing housing for our workforce and that being that nexus. Um, and so that's kind of why like some of these goals or policies rather are being

pulled or highlighting some that are from our housing element. Um, but it that's really what that focus. So some of the ideas just around workforce housing. I personally think the more we can bring this to light the the more important it is. So, I I don't mind seeing it here as long as we're, you know, as we're focusing on workforce.

Well, the the only concern I've got because I completely agree with with focusing on workforce. Um, but the reality is that workforce housing in Soma means affordable housing. And the two terms have become somewhat interchangeable, but um the key to it and and we really need to I'm talking to Theres now. We really need to get together and talk about the affordable housing trust fund and I have had a conversation with the mayor about the three of us sitting down and talking about it. Um so I will I will make that happen. Um the I mean if we're talking about workforce, we're talking about affordable. If we're talking about affordable, we're back to the same topic of what is the city going to put on the table to make it happen. Relying on uh the goodwill of the development community is not going to produce workforce or affordable housing. And uh we're going to have to pony up monies to provide the incentives for market rate developers to build there and have to include affordable units or andor and preferably um have the money to incentivize an affordable housing developer to build the housing we want. And so I think it it certainly has its place in the economic strategy. If the Chamber of Commerce uh frequent sentiments are to be believed, the greatest and most frequent complaint of local businesses in Sonoma that can't find employees because they can't afford to live here. Uh what more do we need to know? I mean there's the linkage between the housing and the economic element. So, I don't think you have to make any you don't

think you have to stretch anything to to link it to.

I have never heard of any community that says labor's abundant because it's so affordable to live here. I think it just it's it's all relative. I mean, our prices are higher, our wages are higher. But I absolutely agree with Chair Donbach that I think we need to keep this front and center and and really uh recognize the nexus um the local economy and the um housing situation. Um and the more that we can do to keep that in mind, we can continue to develop and change and tweak our housing plans and codes so that we can make this more of a viable option for people. I just want to call out that um one of the comments here is to recognize the type of properties we have within the city because we really don't have space for large, you know, highly dense um projects for the most part.

No, we don't. And yet, for example, on uh Fifth Street West, there's currently a vacant building up for sale that used to be the uh Jehovah's Witnesses church. Now, it's not a huge piece of property. Looks to me like it's before

it it's uh the building on it is nothing to speak of. It's a tear down. And um but you could probably fit eight 10 apartments on there at least. Um, and I don't know what the propertyy's selling for, but it's a perfect example to me of a situation where if the city's affordable housing trust fund had $10 million in it and we could use a couple million of it to buy the property and then contribute that to an affordable housing developer to build on, that's the way this stuff gets built. Now, you may say, "Okay, 10 or 12 units, you know, it's a drop in the bucket on our arena numbers." And it is, but at least it's a start, and that's the way it's going to happen, and we're going to have to build on it that way. And it just kills me to see vacant properties like that sitting um and um uh and they have potential for housing and the city doesn't at present have the wherewithal to make it happen. and it just breaks my heart.

I represented a party on that property. Uh it didn't go through, but they were looking to build a type of a music school and it was really ideal because of the the situation of the theater seating and then the stage and then they had the little office. But to answer your point, it's it's on the market for something like 7.89. That's nothing. And I think you could If I remember correctly, I don't know what the I know that there was I can't remember the size of the lot, but I know that you could put up there was a couple, you know, you could put up as some auxiliary. Yeah. Something to think about. Have the city buy it.

Y the city actually does have some property that it could develop. It's small, but it there are some lots um and that wasn't captured here, but we do have some lots and I don't know, you know, that could take small some small micro units. Um, one of our commissioners has requested a break. So, I didn't know how much further we had for this particular element. Uh, I think that was it. All right. Would it be all right if we took a five minute break at this time? 8 o'clock.

I will officially reconvene. It's approximately 8:07. Um, and we will continue now onto the noise element. So, this one is short and sweet element. Um, and um, a lot of comments that we received and you'll see it here too is around vehicle noise and idling noise. Um, and it I'm just from the person that's in charge of code enforcement, it's it's hard to enforce these things. um because it has we have to see it or hear it and be there um for it to happen.

Can I make a comment? I I've seen several articles um recently in um the New York Times and the Wall Street Journal about cameras that can pick up noise. Um so you're picking up the noise, the decibb as well as the license plate. So there may be a technological opportunity. Um and I just uh became aware of that. Okay. Um the other let's see comments are on the side in this one. This one's a PDF. Um, so the comments are over here and so you'll see stuff um that we're just adding some language or things to look up more. Um, anybody have questions before I move on? So there's two goals.

I'm just trying to find out what what is Since this has to do with noise, what does a vi What does vibrant mean? A vibrant mixeduse corridor. What does that mean? Active. Loud. Does it mean loud? It means active. It vibrant means active. I think

so. Usually vibrant mixeduse corridors means there's the activities happening all the time because you're having residences as well as you have businesses. And so vibrant meaning high activity levels. Okay.

And I think they were just trying to use a word other than active because they used active under downtown. Okay, go to the first goal. These are just definitions. So, local economy is not a required element. That's something that we just add. So, there's no state law requirements around what has to go into it. Um noise is a required element by the state. Um so we do have certain things that we have to put in here. So you will see a lot of detail in certain things and you're like why is there that level of detail and um it's mostly their future mitigation measures for development projects. And and just for the record, I I brought this up when I when we had the conversation. Um you know, honestly, I'd like consistency around this. If there's this much level of detail for certain things, then I think that without getting too specific, um we could add additional detail that to other elements uh policies that allow direction. Um because many of what many of what I what we see are very general. They're vague. You're not sure what's going on. So that was just a general request that I had made where if there's an ability to add enough detail to so people are crystal clear on where we're going, I would advocate for that across all of the policies. Please.

Some of this is just more um this is where you see that specificity. Um It's what our how our code is written. Specifically,

Jennifer, I'm wondering um the neighborhood north of Mission that's having the two biggest noise issues right now related to Stompers and Transcendent. Um I'm surprised nobody's here tonight for this discussion, but I know that that's been um a newer issue. And how has that uh feedback been incorporated into this document? Has it yet or is there something that we need to do to kind of add those back in? Because I'm not seeing anything that I can really kind of pinpoint it into, but I know the stompers and their speakers and transcendent and I've heard it up there and it's it's really loud. So, how does that fit in? It's definitely far exceeding the noise levels that are considered to be acceptable.

So, um couple of different things. So, this is more transportation noise um aspects, but the code itself does have specificity around special events and outdoor venues. Um and specifically if the city is issuing a permit, it does not have a limit. So the city can set whatever limit they want. Um, so when we talk about um what's acceptable, that's where the public would get involved in voicing um their concerns around those permitted events and things. The one that's come up more so, so we we did have a little discussion around this in the task force. So, we did have people come to that meeting in regards to this. Um, and also in regards to some noise complaints that we've had for um outdoor music for at a business um at a restaurant. And so, how do we deal with those noise? And this is where I was getting into starting my conversation around enforcement is difficult sometimes around that. But the key is to create mitigation for them to implement to help bring down those decibel levels and to um you know is it setting certain time frames outside of the times that we already have limited noise. So we change the noise levels depending on the day of the week. Um we change that time of day between night and daytime. Um we and then set decel levels based on that. We measure if you in our case like

right here we are public but um next door is public yeah public or a park one of the two but regardless the neighboring property is residential. So we would measure at that property line for what residential would be. So what is that standard and then how far are we above and how do we try to mitigate and make changes to whatever that event is that we are permitting. So those are typically oneoffs and that's why this code is written that way. Um, we used to we still have it in the code, but we haven't applied the live music permit. Used to be an annual permit um that I haven't seen since I've been here. I haven't seen them. Um, so bringing that back. So, we have different tools in the code that we need to start utilizing more. Um,

and how is it enforced? Does that go through the police or code enforcement? Both.

So, um I get code enforcement complaints. Um and so with those then I work with our code enforcement officer to do the measurements um at specific times of the day um on random times in random days when we know something's going to happen so that we can try to get measurements. But again, if that band was there this night and then we changed bands another night, sometimes we have different levels of sound and music. Weather impacts sound. There's so many different things that impact how noise travels. Um it's hard to say, okay, you're compliant. So, we have to do it lots of times. We have to do lots of measurements. If there's a complaint at night, I'm working with the sheriff's or police chief now to order the meters. And so if there is a noise complaint that comes in at night, um that's after the allowed time that they will deputies can have a meter to do the measurement at that time. um to measure that complaint and to take record of it so that we are getting in the moment uh concerns u measured and we can move forward.

Um Jennifer, is there an opportunity along those same lines? Is there an opportunity um to explore um meters? So if so if an organization comes in for like a restaurant for outdoor entertainment or music, is there an opportunity to actually install some meters in real time so that they're actually there, we can get the data in real time um and then um you know enforcement could be done kind of in real time. So, it was more of I've seen them where they're installed and you actually can see them in real time and adjust your noise in real time. Exactly. So, it's not it's not a report out kind of thing. It's more of I recognize I'm above my limit. I'm going to adjust myself. But if it's measured at the residential property line, it may be quite different. If that meter is at the commercial business, but you want to measure it at the residential property line,

how do you do that? Math. Math. So, you do like a calibrate them and then you can figure out, okay, if it's

65 dB here, it's 120 there or whatever. Um well it'd be dissipating as you at the distance but referring to so it's a yeah there is actually mathematical equation around sound travel in a in a vacuum it would be x and so we kind of treat it like that and so then we say all right so if it's outside um we know we want to get it down you know a little bit whatever that is what are the options that are out there to help dissipate that sound to prevent it travel um outside is harder when we're not in a constrained space, but some of our outdoor music uh providers, we can also saying no, it has to be acoustic. It can't be amplified sound. You know, some of the restaurants that would be more of like the regular business, special events, the stompers, they're going to have acoustic. I mean, not acoustic, but they're going to have amplified sound. So, how do we work with them to um keep track how loud they're going? We we recognize that speaking voice is going to be louder than a full band and singing. How do you adjust and calibrate for that as you go through an event? Um, so we have Stompers is not in the city, it's in the county. I mean, it's in the city, but it's a county property and a county uh agreement um with the stompers, but we're working with them. Um we're going to talk more about transcendence tomorrow night. Um so, listen in um about that. But again, those are special oneoffs, so we'll treat them a little differently. Um but I don't know if you've um been to Murphy's, but they've put up the curtain, but the curtain's not pulled,

then it doesn't do anything. So, there's certain things like that that can be done. Um, and then if they continue, there's a comment over here by Donna. If they continue, we revoke their permit and their ability to do that. If they're not listening and we've tried and tried, then we have a process by which we revoke permits. And then the question came up about applying again in the criteria and penalty fees and things are typically the things that we would put into the code itself. Um but um but those are the kinds of that's the outcome of not complying. Um it's noise is fun.

So so can I go back to the the good discussion we just had here? um I mean is is perhaps one of the policies that um I heard is to create a policy where there there's real using technology to do real time um uh decel tracking for certain establishments that want to have that meet certain criteria around outdoor so that that you know there's a policy a direct mitigation as I mean can we flesh can you flesh that out a little bit? Yeah, we can flesh out some I such as but we wouldn't say this is what you want we want you to do that's planning commission could do that just based on whatever information that you have and what may be needed we can always make it part of the application like provide us with your your sound mitigation is going to be um one jurisdiction I worked every time the door opened obviously a lot of noise came come out with that. And so the rule was you can't keep the door open. The door has to close and stay closed unless somebody's exiting, but you can't just keep it open because that noise is just ex escaping. So there's things like that when it's like inside and it's a live band um that's amplified. Um we've had a few businesses that you guys have approved with acoustic entertainment. Um, so then again, it's is there a complaint associated with it and then that's what we're enforcing. Well, once again, I I think that there are technological opportunities at present and that will be in the

future that could mitigate some of these problems. For example, the stompers are using a very old-fashioned loudspeaker system. Uh, you know, not very different than what was used in 1950. Um, uh, there are and have been developed for many years what you can refer to as a soft speaker system, which involves multiple speakers closer to the audience you're trying to reach. Because the only reason the loudspeaker system works is because you got to cover a large area of great distance and you want people to be able to hear. So it's all up at a very high decibel level. But a soft speaker system brings the speakers to the audience rather than bringing the sound to the audience from a distance. And so you have multiple smaller lower volume speakers located right where the people are sitting. and you don't end up with that same kind of neighborhoodwide volume. Now once again um if the city has a vested interest in uh protecting the quality of life of the residents near um the stadium where the stompers play and get back to my endless comment. If the city had the money to help fund the installation of a soft speaker system, albeit on county property, county's not going to object um to the benefit of the surrounding area. uh that would be great, but it isn't like there aren't alternative modalities of of keeping people engaged with what's going on in a game without having to essentially blast it at echo levels from from towers uh that covers uh end up traveling five six blocks. So,

any other comments for the commissioners? Good discussion. Um, I will open it up for public comment and we have uh comment from the public. Thank you for hanging out.

Uh, thank you Tom Graves. I live in Sonoma. Um, thank you guys for doing what you're doing and giving so much attention to a lot of important issues. I could talk to you a lot about what I've heard tonight. I just wanted to say um I intend attended transcendence uh Saturday night for the first time. I was the second youngest person there. My wife, who's not here tonight, was the youngest person there. I don't know what decibb they were projecting at, but at um intermission when many of us went to the portaotties, they had uh portaotti wardens there and they put the fear of God in us to do what we had to do and get back to our seats because uh they had an agreement with the city to stop at 1000 p.m. and she had her watch and they were on track to stop at 9:59 and um you better have done your stuff and gotten back to your seat and many people were having a hard time doing that. My point is uh uh legitimate organizations like that will take whatever you tell them very seriously. So, so I think that's as long as we have people who do what they're supposed to be doing, you know, I I think that's a giant step towards uh uh controlling sound issues. So, thank you.

Thank you.

All right. So, there's no one else in the audience, so I'll close the public comment and um just ask if there are any more closing comments from commissioners on this these topics. Um I would be cur a a comment on transcendence. Um our first time was Sunday night and we've been in this community. I mean we've supported transcendence and um but we just never had seen a um we've just never seen a performance and it was spectacularly good. I mean like this town is so lucky to have that level of talent that SO right there is a way to promote tourism in this town. It was so so well done. Agree with you about the you know the uneven surface and people can't see and they're drinking wine and all that. But um it went off without a hitch and it was thoroughly enjoyable and a a real pleasure to have that in our community. It was great.

Commissioner O'Neal. Um my comment would be um for the special permits if it's the permitting is being done at city council because we didn't see any of those permits. City council. Um, so we do have a special use permit process um and city council can do um modify it because it's for we consider it a special event. It's not an actual use.

Well, if something is a special event but it happens 20 times in the summer, I think it needs to go through a traditional planning process. So maybe we could call it a another name, but it's not a special event. Special events fourth of July. It happens once a year. The transcendent, I don't know what their um performance schedule is, but it's multiple times a week, many weeks a year. And Stompers Yeah.

Yeah. Exactly. Um and I do um I love transcended. I love I loved it better when it was in Glenn Ellie because it was prettier. But um but I do think that we need to respect the people that are hearing that noise at a level far enough away that it isn't pleasant and it's disturbing their ability to enjoy their homes. So I really don't want to give them the special event uh permission. I think we need to hold them to a higher standard and maybe a recurring event is a better term, but I would like to see that. um go through a more disciplined process. I think this one was just shotgun. They just did it to see how it went and the results have been overall very good, but there's some things that could certainly be improved. And I think the noise level and the way that it's uh dealt with with the neighborhood is is really important. And just a question and a comment, you know, again after the conversation here is um is is there um a potential utility in this element to again create a policy where we're constantly looking at new technology to help us enforce the sound? Or is is that something that we take for granted that the staff is doing? because there's a difference between knowing that there's new technology and how to how to you know how do you go about doing that. So just a suggestion.

All right. And with that, we're completed with that action. Okay. Sounds good.

Um, thank you. Thank you for bringing it forward. Um, so now we'll move on to item six, which are director comments and announcements. Sorry. Um, so our next meeting, um, as you approved today, is going to be, um, going to have Maldo. So that's going to be the main item. Um but probably we'll add um the additional some additional um elements to discuss and then given the time we'll see how far we get um with that. I just given more of the general plan and the needs and discussion and the code, I may um at that meeting also recommend so start thinking about having a special meeting to kind of throw in there um that we can focus just on the general plan and the development code discussion um sometime probably in October. So, just start thinking about that because I'll probably just given our time situation.

Is our next meeting going to be our third Thursday? Yes. September 18th. Correct. I have a question. Any other um announcements, Jennifer?

Um I'm going to release the next element this week. Um the utilities element is the next one. So that'll be released this week. Um also we'll be releasing um either next in the next two weeks the notice of preparation for the EIR um the environmental document for the general plan um to get that started. So we'll have a public meeting that'll be announced with that and um that will occur on September 15th. So before our next meeting there will be a meeting in regards to the general plan EIR again a notice of appropriation is only is really to discuss um environmental concerns not the general plan itself but just environmental and what studies and things will be done. So there'll be a presentation by the consultant on what they're going to be looking at and then a time for comments and that'll be at the community center for that.

Mh. Um with regard to the uh EIR and its preparation um is the cost of the EIR is that part of the contract with a consultant? That's correct. Okay. And um has there been any consideration and I don't know if there are or have been um effects of the current changes in state law as pertains to the EIR um that are going to affect ours?

No, not to the general plan EIR. what it does. Um, some of the new laws are basically saying if your general plan EIR then that's basically pushed down in some situations. Um, it allows for like uh if we change um if we had if we were going to change the housing element, one of the laws was that your housing element allows for you to do all your zoning changes without another environmental document. So that's kind of where those go. So I think um it'll the general plan EIR still needs to be the full thing and then there'll be potentially less for projects um but because we're doing a programmatic EI so that projects can build off of it. Um, all right. I have I have one question. Um, and it kind of pertains to the public comment of non-aggendaized items. And I was wondering if you if you were in a position to give an update on where we are with a mobile home ordinance update.

Um, I said after discussion with the city attorney and the city manager, um, we will be taking it for direction from city council um, in November. Thank you. Um, that pertains to what I was going to ask. I mean, we don't have a role in in a mobile home ordinance. Are the speakers who came tonight aware of the fact that they're they seem to be under the impression that we have a role?

So, I just sent them the email today to that group um at the end of the day that it was going to city council. I'm sure that question will come up, but you're correct. We looked further into the code and the section of the code in regards to tenant um the rent control is a city council perview and um tenant protections depending on the jurisdiction could be within planning commission but that's the direction that we need to get from city council about tenant protections. Well, I was on the council in 2004 when the current ordinance was passed. And I remember the work that went into it, which also included the city defending itself in a lawsuit and winning that was back in the day where we won our lawsuit. Uh anyway, um but I distinctly recall it being a within the council purview. It was never a planning commission discussion. I do think that came up originally because of the housing element because it's defined in the housing element. Um any other um questions? Let me see where are we? Okay. Um item seven then is commissioner reports and comments. So I know we just had some comments from commissioners. I don't know that there are any reports.

The uh housing trust fund ad hoc has not met yet. Is that the understanding? I will. I'm going to address that this week. Okay. Well, then the last item is item eight, adjournment. Do I have a motion to adjurnn? All right. Thank you everybody.