School Committee - Special Meeting

Good evening, everybody. This is the joint, committee meeting on school buildings, facilities, and maintenance. We're here together with the school committee. I am Jesse Klingen, the chair of this committee. It is now 06:02PM.

We're starting this meeting first with a, a little blurb that we read in order to be able to hold this meeting remotely. Pursuant to chapter two of the acts of 2025, this meeting of the city council committee will be conducted via remote participation. We will post an audio recording, audio video recording, transcript, or other comprehensive record of these proceedings as soon as possible after the meeting on the City Of Somerville website and local cable access government channels. That being said, could you please madam clerk, could you please call the roll to establish quorum?

Yep. This is roll call. Councilor Saeed? Here. Councilor Davis?

Here.

Chair Klingen?

Present.

Alright. With that, everyone is here, and we do have quorum.

Alright. Excellent. I am gonna now turn it over to the school committee so they can, establish quorum and open their meeting.

Thank you, counselor Klingen. This is Liron Biton, chair, for the school committees, subcommittee of the same name. I am establishing quorum here at 06:03. Sarah Phillips, are you here?

Present.

Laura Patton, are you here yet? Not yet. Okay. So we have quorum with two of three, and I will turn it back to you, counselor Clayton.

Okay. Excellent. We have a few things on the agenda. There are attached memos to the agenda for some of them. The first item we have, I will lay on the table. That's the approval of the minutes of the school buildings facility maintenance special committee meeting of September 15. I will lay that on the table for approval at the end of the meeting. Item two, which is a standing update, regarding, that the administration provide the special committee on school building facilities and maintenance with regular updates about the Massachusetts school building authority process for the Winter Hill and Brown schools. So I, have not watched the meeting. I, you know, I I wasn't gonna have this on the agenda because I didn't know if what type of if there would be a a substantial update of any time.

But I guess, since we we did put this meeting after the, the CAG meeting, the Citizen, Construction Advisory Group, that I guess I'm not sure what happened at the meeting last night, but I know we have staff here to speak, to give an update or speak on this item. So I see, liaison Rodasi's hand up. Go right ahead.

Thank you, mister chair. I just I was wondering if we'd be able to take item four actually out of order. Director Blaise has a time constraint, and I was just hoping if it's not too much trouble.

Not a problem. Thank you. Madam clerk will jump to item four, which is that the administration released the report on the school department composting pilot program, and the commission of pub commissioner of public works update this council on any plans to reintroduce composting in the schools. So there, there is a memo attached.

It's a pretty lengthy memo, and we also have staff here to speak on this.

Director Blaze is here. I don't know if, I'll just say on this, you know, this is something that's been, you know, important to all of us as a council. This effort really started back in 2018 by then counselor at large Hirsch, who really was very passionate about making this happen, you know, to the point where she would bring in trays with, you know, with the with trash and leftover food waste and, you know, just wanted to to to be be being, you know, responsible in our schools for making sure that we're doing our part as far as composting and recycling. So that said, there there was a pilot for a number of years one or one of the schools or or more than one maybe. But and so now, you know, we're we're we're once again asking and pushing for this to to happen.

So, director Blaise, I'll turn it over to you.

Through you. Thank you very much. I'm happy to be here. I'm Christine Blaise. I'm the director of the mayor's office of sustainability and environment, speaking on behalf of this item.

And the memo, I can I can summarize it and maybe that and kind of do some table setting, and maybe that's the best place to start? You know, happy to take any questions, of course, too. Between 20 oh, I I should clarify too. So for, I think, about five months between 2018 and 2019, OSE and the Department of Public Works ran a cafe cafeteria composting pilot inside four Summerville public schools, and the pilot was, analyzed by an intern who reported out, some findings about, contamination, about popularity, about operations, and made some recommendations on how to expand and improve on the pilot in the future so that we could take it out of its pilot phase and, you know, institutionalize it. That analysis also determined that additional personnel and resources would be required to maintain and expand the program.

And, of course, that all came out kind of mid twenty nineteen. And, of course, we all know beginning of 2020, the pandemic emerged. Our priorities and resources kind of shifted. And at the time, it was decided not to expand the front of the house, what I'm what I'm calling the front of the house program, because we sort of have two different sources of food waste in schools. We have the food waste at the cafeteria level, and then we have the food waste that goes beyond the cafeteria and into the kitchen.

At that point, it was determined to try, addressing the food waste in schools in a different way and try the and and potentially with less personnel and resources that we didn't already have. And we ran a very brief kind of couple month kitchen organic waste disposal program, and that ran in two different schools. Unfortunately, the results of that the experiences, I guess, of that pilot didn't pan out as as great as the cafeteria once did. And there was a lot of concerns about kind of training for staff, the labor required to do this, and there were questions about frequency of pickups and also communication between all of the different departments that were involved in trying to help the schools run this sort of program. So we decided to table that, but we did agreed to continue discussing it, over the years, and we've kept those conversations open with the schools.

They've been a great partner in this. And we, at the same time, were had an opportunity and identified an opportunity and a need to expand the staff that are working on all of these really complex issues, like addressing food waste in schools, which encompass operations, health, safety, and, sustainability issues too. So we we've all worked together to sort of help to build systems on the city side to make sure that we're ready to plan for and can work with the schools, to come up with a plan that works best for for everybody. At the same time, we've also released the city's first zero waste plan, which calls for a reduction in, waste overall community wide by 90% by 2050, which is in line with the state's similar plan with with the same goal. Importantly, the state has also set sort of a timeline for regulations around food waste in commercial spaces that produce a certain amount of tonnage of food over a certain period.

And they're we believe that they're looking over in the next couple years to start enforcing that. So working on this together with the schools is a really good opportunity for us to kind of troubleshoot and figure out what works best for us while we have this time to experiment and play before we need to have something in place. We also have, of course, our community climate action plan, and the one that was released the first one that was released in 2018 really only mentioned composting as a footnote and sort of said, hey. You know, people really want this, but it doesn't really match with our bottom line of our geographic greenhouse gas inventory, so we didn't include, you know, an item around this. But it did include a consumption based emissions inventory, which, does look at the kind of cradle to grave emissions of all of the things that we consume.

And when you look at emissions from that perspective, it is really impactful. Food waste is really impactful. It's really valuable. We all would like to see you know? And we're are working towards getting these programs up and running.

And, you know, at at the same time, in our our 2024 climate plan, you know, that's the reason why we included goals around food waste in it even though you wouldn't necessarily see it in a traditional, you know, kind of greenhouse gas inventory of that type. We thought that it was important that the plans that the city was putting forward are reflective of what's important to the community. And composting generally is more than just emissions, of course. I think everybody it sounds like everybody on the committee is is sort of heard or or is aware of all of the different benefits of composting too from a nutrient standpoint and all of the the valuable nutrients that we can get from there and and put back into our our own food and our food systems. So we're really and it's also a education tool too and helps to build a culture of environmentalism and conservationism and teaches all of these really great principles too.

So we're we're suffice to say, we're working with the schools now on we have a couple different composting programs going for the city. We just launched our first curbside composting pilot program last week, and we have a 160 sorry. A 169 sign ups just within a week, which is what we were expecting over a two month period. So that's very exciting. It's clearly signaling that this is something that the community really is interested in, which is we knew, but, you know, now it's it's reflected.

And, we're still working with the schools on this piece of it, and we're also looking for synergy between this particular effort with the schools and the participatory budgeting drop off food waste sites that were voted on by residents in I think it was June, where we have about a little more than a $100,000 to site and establish some food waste drop off sites around the community to kind of like our neighbors in Cambridge, Boston, Arlington, all all do now. So we're in contact with those communities. We're seeing if there's any synergies there. We're learning best practices, and we're going to keep this moving forward for the community. So I I'll just end by saying I really appreciate all your support with this.

You know, this is something that our department is very passionate about, and we're working really hard to find a solution with the schools, and a solution that is, you know, safe, won't exasperate the rat problem, and, keeps us, in line with not only your community goals, but the state goals too. Thank you.

Thank you. Before I turn it to colleagues, I just wanna say, you know, I I see the some of the the little nuggets that are in the in the report and and the the memo here is, like, less than 5% of some of those total emissions. I think at this point in time, like, from my perspective as far as composting goes, it's it's mostly about rats. Like, I think that, you know, we've been told in the past even with, like, the city's now doing a a pilot for the composting because, you know, they said that we were paying by tonnage, but then we were just doing, like because this is about how much we pay for trash and whether or not you know, how much it's gonna cost us to run a pilot program once we get serious buy in, that the numbers don't work. And when we hear that a lot, I'm just trying to figure out how how if we're gonna be running a pilot, like, how come we can't just have the food, you know, and the milk poured into the thing and the food taken off the the trays and just brought to DPW or or something.

Like, there's gotta be a way, and then the company that we're doing the pilot with gets it. I'm just I understand the logistics, and I understand we're asking food service people to do extra work. I don't know. I'm just kinda thinking aloud here just because, you know, it's frustrating because I do understand that the numbers don't necessarily work in terms of, you know, what is important to us, as a community. So, I've just been listening to this talk for, you know, about eight years now, and it's just you know, we haven't really gotten very far.

So, anybody on the council side have anything on this? Alright. I don't see any hands raised. Alright. I'll turn it over to the school committee side.

Through the chair. Sorry.

Oh, I didn't see okay.

Can see the

bus. The site. Yeah.

Yeah. I'm the chair. Thank you, chair, for kinda giving the summary of this and how we got here. I put in the order, but all my colleagues are in support of this. And I am inclined to agree with what you said, chair.

Yeah. I think at this point, we know there's, like, so much waste, and thank you, director, for digging up this, like, report. But, similarly, I would like to see us really take action on this and just do it. We've done pilots. We as you said, like, different, you know, programs, but we have learned what we needed to learn.

And we know also that rats, it that's, like, a really, really big issue in the schools. So I'm really hoping that in the next like, by next September, we have, like, a plan on this because more pilots I don't know how you know, they will help certainly. But

yeah.

Yeah.

I think Yeah. Yeah.

No. I appreciate it. I just wanna just to add on to my other comment, though, I just wanna be clear. What I'm talking about is the fact that food waste is heavy. We don't pay by the pound or the tonnage right now with the trash pickup. And so a pilot program would potentially I'm sorry. A a composting program potentially cost us more than just having it in the trash. And I and I do understand that those numbers don't pan out, but then there is the rat factor. Then there is the you know, there's other factors. I don't know if the I don't see any actual numbers here on the breakdown in terms of, like, in the millions, how much it will cost us to to compost, and maybe it's in there.

I I yeah. Anyway, so I just wanna, like, kind of make sure everyone understands this is we've been told in the past it's about dollars and cents, and that's, alright. Councilor Davis, and then we'll turn it over to the school committee.

Yeah. Thank you, mister chair. I I guess I I should just, you know, add my voice and and and sort of echo what my colleagues have said. I I appreciate this, the the memo. So thank you to the director for that, and thank you, you know, for everyone who's put some efforts into this. You know, I I I I I did kinda when I read this, I I did kinda look a little sideways at at, you know, one of the conclusions with the the back of the house pilot being, you know, road and concerns. I'm I'm I'm not quite sure how that works. If if, you know, food waste is going in

the trash, what how it would you know?

Surely, it it would be better if we if we have a specific place for it that that could be specifically more road and proof, but I I you know, I don't I don't have all the details. But, you know, just I just wanna even before counselor Hirsch brought this up, I had brought it up. My my daughter had prompted me for a project she did in school. And so, you know, there really ought to be a way we can do this. I understand there's a lot of challenges.

I appreciate all the work. And so I'll just, you know, reiterate once again my request that we keep pressing on this to find a way to to, you know, capture the many benefits that the director noted and and and with a clear understanding that we are not trying to do it to save money on on karting. So thank you for for reminding me, council Clinton, of that interesting response that we heard from a a past administration. So, yeah, here's for figuring it out. Thank you.

You, colleagues. I will turn it over to chair Baton.

Thank you, chair Klingon. I'm gonna take just a quick moment to shout out Annie at the West Somerville Neighborhood School who wrote an article in her school newspaper to highlight the importance of composting and the positive benefits she and I also think it will have, for our school communities, both in terms of, you know, helping our kids do the right thing, and help solve, the problems that they have in front of them. Right? So this is, a way to really make sure that, we're giving kids opportunities to, impact the world in a positive way. I also just wanna, note in the the memo, it indicated, looking at food donation possibilities, and I don't know if that has been explored.

I'd be interested, director Blaise, in hearing whether that has been looked into. But, you know, in addition to the rodent mitigation, I wonder if this could help, some of our community partners in serving those with food food insecurity. And I know our school department provides nutritious meals for our students every single day, and the opportunity to provide leftover meals that would get disposed of otherwise, that are still fit to serve could be, part of a braided solution to addressing the food and security crisis that I have to imagine is only gonna get worse in the next couple years. So, director Blaise, I don't know if you have a response to that before I turn it over to my colleagues.

To the chair, thank you so much for the question. It's a great point, and it's definitely something that we are interested in exploring. We haven't at least our department specifically hasn't explored food donations there, and I can't I think it's it's important to note that the city isn't the only party at the table. We have to get the schools on board with this, and we have to consider their capacity too. So it's definitely something that we're interested in exploring.

I and I can't speak if if other departments have looked into this already. I'm thinking back to, you know, the COVID days, and and the the folks that were working on the food access, incident command, team. So I would have to do more research, but I'd be happy to look into it and get back to the, committee.

Appreciate that. Alright. I'm gonna go, in order that I see the hands. So, doctor Phillips.

Thanks, through you, chair. Thank you so much for this memo and this presentation and to my colleagues on city council who who have really pushed this issue so strongly. I really appreciate it. One of the many, many things I have learned in my six years on this committee is how hard it is to move an organization as big as a school district. Right?

And on this issue, we're feeding 5,000 kids at least once, if not twice, each and every day. That is a lot of meals and a lot of food. And it seems to me, and, director Blaise, please correct me if I'm wrong, we have some sense of what it would take to do this well. And I guess my request through you, chair, is to miss Barry is to request that the district work with its finance team to cost out what would it take to seriously pilot a compost, any, you know, any of the many models we could do. You know, what would it take to pilot it?

What would it take to implement it district wide? And then let's get it to president Davis and our colleagues on the city council because I think in order to do this, we have to add this to the district's budget. There's no other way to move this ship, and so we'd really need your help. And so I think a starting point is to know, here's what we would need. And then to think about, okay. What are the trade offs? Right? I think, like, percent of our eighth graders plus or minus are proficient on our standardized tests. That's just one measure, but, like, that's the trade off for this money in our budget. So thanks.

Thank you, doctor Phillips. Thank you for raising that. I'm gonna go to, miss Barry first. Miss Barry? Sorry.

Thank you. Through you, chair. Yes. Back in July, we had a nice meeting with director Blaze, and that meeting was director of food services, Lauren Mancini, myself, and Amara Anasige. And we are very much open to starting the pilot program as long as we are all in the same page with rodent control and as long as all of the measures are right for both sides.

I know funding is gonna be play a big factor. And from what I understand from food services is in the back of the house, they really don't have, which was brought up in the July meeting, they don't have a ton of weight food waste, because, for example, if they have, like, chicken dinner, for example, then they'll then turn it into chicken pot pie. And they you know what I'm saying? I as to limit the amount of food that is being wasted. They do have, you know, scraps such as, like, cucumber pails and things to that nature that would go into the composting.

The I guess the problem that happened in the past was around, the pickup of the composting barrels not being consistent. So they were there longer than they should have been, which was a red flag for our food service department. Now as far as the front of the house, I think that's where more of the funding issue would because we would definitely need more staff to support the students around properly disposing the items.

Okay. Thank you. Miss Patone.

Thank you through you. I don't wanna belabor this topic. I just very much appreciate city councilors, director Blaze, miss Barry for being here to talk about the issue. I think fundamentally, it's it's clearly at least to launch this, it's an investment. And it's an investment from the standpoint of students and culture and developing a culture of composting that, you know, does it's not maybe contributing to, you know, climate issues as much as we're concerned about it, but it does divert things from landfills.

And for students in particular, and I think we've touched on this, like, they really feel this very viscerally. If they compost at home, they're really unhappy. Like, my son, this is ages ago. This is not composting. Was recycling. He used to collect the Styrofoam trays and try to figure out a way to dispose of it because he knew it was something that could have been done differently. And kids aren't necessarily wedded with the whole sort of, like, big picture. How do we do something on a big industrial scale versus them personally putting a can in a recycling bin? So I hope that we can frame this as an investment. I think over time as students learn how to do it first of all, composting doesn't have to be perfect.

If a kid throws something in the trash by accident, it's not the end of the world. And I think it's gonna take time to get there, and it may not be a con like, we invest and then maybe the cost will go down a little bit. But I just I agree with doctor Phillips that figuring out how to plan for this and do it. I think it's one of those places where we can keep our kids from becoming cynical because I think this is a place where kids become cynics. And they go, well, if we if we don't compost here or if we don't recycle, I'm just using it as an example, here, then why bother?

And, like, we're catching them at this very, sort of tender part of their lives. So there's a value system that's not about dollars, but it's about culture and whatever we can do, for the school pity side to further this. And, you know, again, thank you for this memo. Detailed and so specific. Someone has to decide this is an investment that we wanna make in our community, and I hope that that happens, and I will continue to be part of the advocacy. So thank you.

Director Blaise, do you have any response before I turn it over to doctor, mister Klingon?

Through to the chair. Thank you all. These were such wonderful, responses, and I it's great to hear that there's just so much support for this. And I loved that last comment about, you know, the kids really wanna do something because that's really why I've been, you know, pushing for this is that it's it's about creating that culture of conservationism, creating environmentalists today because, you know, no matter how you look at this, you know, there's all of these environmental benefits, not just it's not always just about emissions. Right?

And and it's it's really important that we get ahead of that now so that we can achieve our vision thirty years from now. So I am totally yeah. I I think that really struck me, and and Annie is a great example of this too. Right? We met with Annie several times. She's great. And, yeah, it's great to see her. Couple notes here is that, you know, I think on the cost point, I think there were two comments made about cost, and I or three or so. And I just wanted to kind of clarify. We are looking at synergies between a couple composting programs, one being the participatory budgeting drop off program.

Cambridge, Boston, and Arlington I think Arlington too, colocate their drop off locations with schools. So if we're looking for something that is a little bit similar and we're kind of looking for somebody from the kitchen to go outside, you know, a couple times a week and throw away food waste into, like, a ratproof bin or maybe rat resistant bin, and that is picked up hopefully on a daily basis, then, you know, maybe we can figure something out. And and we have now we have the best now through market research, we've had the best practices kind of laid out for us on on citing those things. And that's a conversation that, you know, once we get a little bit more information from our surrounding communities and we and and potential, you know, like, vendors for market research, we can approach the schools with some some ideas there and include them on kind of the the research arm of that too. We've also conducted some site visits at the schools too to better understand what the rodent issues are and what recommendations could be made to to help them there too.

There this other idea the the other point too, I I think Danielle did a really great job explaining kind of the difference between the front of the house composting, which is I think what the original item was about, a report about front of the cafeteria composting versus back of the house is true. There's a lot more food waste at the front of the house versus the back of the house. So it might take two different solutions, and I think that's why and I can't speak for the administration at that time because I wasn't in office of sustainability at that time. But I believe that that's why the decision was made to try both pilots so that we could kind of get a sense of what we could do with limited resources and what sort of impact it would have. We are seeing communities decrease their total that they spend on trash pickup generally and tonnage as a result of incorporating composting programs.

There's also communities that you know, in terms of, like, curbside composting generally, there's also communities that have turned to alternative methods and said, you know, in terms of the curbside piece and said, hey. You know, here's a discount for you know, that the town can offer for our residents. Right? So there's there's different ways that we can go about this. I think the pilot program is just it's it's sort of our our kind of proving ground, and then we can take what we learn and implement accordingly.

And, yeah, I think and and I think in terms of contamination too, yes, some contamination is okay. I think that that's where a lot of the resources come in for the front of the house program and to get the aids to make sure students are composting or putting their waste in the correct bins and to make sure that custodians are signing them properly too. So there's a big effort here. We have a great partnership with our department of public works team on this too. We split the environmental program manager who was here for twenty years when he left the city for another opportunity.

We split we were he was doing so much. We split his position into, like, five positions across three different departments, and one of those is a sanitation program hazardous waste and sanitation program manager that's based in DPW who, at that position, I think they're working to fill it now, but they would be really helpful in helping us figure out, what the best way to go about this is. And if we get something in place, then they can help us manage it too going forward. Yeah. So I think, you know, we're we're investigating all of our options too, and we'll we can certainly, you know, keep it keep in touch with the committee and, you know, as the schools and the city continue our journey in figuring out, we all wanna do this.

What's the best way to do it for Somerville that doesn't exasperate existing issues that we already have?

Thank you, director Blaise. I think what I'm gonna do is continue to check-in with, miss Barry and miss Anosike to find out when might be a a good time to come back to this conversation. So that's very helpful. Back to you, Chair Klingen. Thanks.

Thank you, counselor. Something else on this?

Yeah. Thank you through the chair. I just had my my hand raised before director Blaise spoke, and I just, like, wanna say thank you for trying to investigate all the options. And and it was to miss a request that let's not this let this conversation end here. I really hope this is the beginning of the conversation of trying to figure out how to work with the schools, what we can do at the city level.

And I think it would be great to get actual numbers so that the council is prepared before budget season, and we we're working with a certain number. So that's, like, one request in terms of cost. And then the other one is the request to just keep that conversation going with school staff. It's really great to hear from miss Barry just now some of the challenges. And I just wanna say to, like, the the point you made about, yes, it's important to have additional staff to walk kids, students through, like, you know, a whole, you know, composting culture.

Having worked in the schools, they will say, yes. Absolutely. We always need an adult. You know? Transitions take time. Learning new routines, you know, take time, but this is exactly what we do in the schools. Right? Establishing new routines, implementing new systems, that's what staff school staff do all the time in school. So as a former educator would say, I don't think we will have, like, many issues there. What we would need, again, is funding to, for those positions, but I really trust that our students are ready for this.

We've we our educators teach about this. The to director Blaise, you know this, you know, better than anyone as you have, worked a lot with staff, and you see all the amazing things they're doing in terms of climate. So we really hope we can lead the way, and I trust that our students will will be thrilled to join once the we have a plan in place.

Okay. So the order is that they release the report. Where is the report currently?

Through the chair. So we did find the report. It's in a a draft version, and it was created in a previous administration. So we we can't, like, vouch for the information that is in it necessarily. So I took some of the or I took all of the recommendations from the report, and I Okay. Included it in appendix a.

Okay. But

we do have but so to those are, I think, pages three and four here of the memo.

I got it. Okay. Alright. Is that, satisfy you, counsel Saeed, as the originator of the order as far as the report, unquote, report goes? Are those bullet pointed, recommendations? Is that satisfied for you?

Yes, counselor. I think for now, I am satisfied with this. Director Blaise has reached out to me, before putting this together so we understand, what you've just explained about this being, you know, probably, it's, like, from seven, eight years ago. I think this is, again, just, like, to give us an idea of what was done, since in this committee, this came up, and, our colleagues from the school committee requested to have this information that they asked for years ago. And, yeah, I will put in a different order about the cost as they would like you to have to have a conversation around that.

So I am comfortable put marking this work as completed.

Okay.

Chair.

Alright. So we'll work complete this. I do just wanna say this isn't about recycling, but I do remember councilor Hirsch saying that the kids would she would see kids crying that they felt like it to to to school committee person point, that they felt like they were breaking the law by not doing what, you know, we've been told as a society it's an important thing to do. Madam clerk, we will work complete item number four and go back to the regular order of business, which is item number two. But the administration provide the special committee on school buildings, still need the maintenance with the regular with the regular updates about the MSBA process for the Wendell Brown schools.

I know is recusing herself because of her location of her residence to the one of the proposed possible locations for a school. So with that said, I will, I know that director Reish is here. And, again, as I set it up before, there was new information that came out last night. I I guess I didn't read I didn't watch the, the meeting yet. It was it just posted, I think, today. So take it away, director Hirsch. I mean

Thank you. Thank you, chair Klingen. Director Hirsch. Yeah. Two two updates. One, we are completing negotiations on the contract with Perkins Eastman, who will be our architect designer. We've negotiated the scope and fee. Both parties are happy with that. We have some allowances, in there, that I think will cover us, and we're starting to schedule meetings starting with some focusing on the educational program. So a lot of the the educational folks at SPS will will be meeting with Perkins Eastman to get that going.

So very excited to be entering that next phase. In terms of the construction advisory group, the CAG, we did have a meeting last night. The primary topic of that was a readout of the survey in the focus groups. I think most everybody here from all the outreach and billboards around the city know that we had an online survey around questions around the the location, the size, the programming, preferences for the new school. We had an outstanding response, something like 2,500 respondents, which is like a new record for that type of polls.

So the the consultant that we had hired to work with the CAG on developing that survey reported out on the data. I think the one conclusive thing that we can say is that the preponderance of the community is opposed to citing a new facility at Trum for various number of reasons, but, but most everyone has, objections to it. So perhaps counselor won't have to recuse herself from this item very much longer. All all other, sort of, topics, of of the survey were more inconclusive. Not surprisingly, I guess, you know, the the community as a whole is somewhat divided, on on the issue of to combine or not combine.

If if you look at different demographics, certainly, you know, Wards 45, and 6 are in favor of separate facilities. Wards 123, And 7 are generally in favor of a combined facility, seeing the the benefit the sort of the cost benefit of a combined facility. The different age demographics is you know, the the ages that are sort of have children that are brown school age tend to favor a separate brown school. The the ages that are are either younger as in, you know, going to be going into school or older as in already in high school tended to favor a combined school. So, you know, the the the report is released.

I think we'll be posting it on the website soon for everyone to be able to to take a look at the graphs and and the the data. But, you know, that's that's generally the the upshot. In in in broad brush, nobody likes the idea of Trump. The rest of the community is divided almost down the middle on whether to combine or not combine, and and, clearly, the the preference there would be for combined Sycamore, not a Trum. We also had a presentation on the focus groups, which were intended to be a deeper dive with a smaller group of with smaller groups of people so that, you know, not only would we have that sort of top level data, but also dive more into reasoning behind, their their sort of preferences.

And there were focus groups with with educators, with the teachers, with parents of both, you know, Winter Hill Brown and non Winter Hill Brown families, special education parents, non parents. You know? So, like, we had a bunch of different focus groups. And and there again, you know, the the there were differences among those different demographics. You know, certainly, the the existing Brown and and Winter Hill folks seem to favor separate schools.

The educators, interestingly enough, favored a combined school, and and, you know, that that there was just sort of a a range there too. So there there's no clear consensus among the community, and it's fairly evenly divided, which I think is why this is such a a difficult, you know, topic. And and I I do think it it I think the CAG really needs to the members of the CAG need to be commended because they've been looking at all of this data, And and now we've got the additional sort of outreach data for them to to look at. And, you know, I the the the intent is that their next meeting is on the tenth. Between now and then, they're gonna start filling in some, you know, like, online, you know, forms.

And the idea is that on the tenth, they'll they'll do some deliberation around the their recommendation and then finalize that. We've got one more meeting scheduled after that, I think, on the twenty fourth, which would be two weeks after that to sort of finalize it. And the the form of it, you know, in broad brush, what we're kinda talking about is is similar to, like, a a Supreme Court decision where there's a decision and the justifications for it and the the additional information that the CAG has gleaned to to offer to to the mayor and to memorialize all it is that they've, you know, sort of uncovered during this exploration. There's also an expectation that there likely will be, as in a a Supreme Court decision, a a dissenting opinion because I don't think we're gonna get to unanimity on on the CAG. Not everyone will agree, but there there will be sort of a a majority and a minority opinion that that sort of states their their reasoning behind that.

So all in all, I think I think that the direction that that group is is taking is a very good one. And and, yeah, on behalf of everyone on the Citi side team, wanna thank them for all of the the work that they've put into to this effort.

But, director Reish, well, I have a couple of just rapid fire questions. The first one is okay. So the CAG decided that they don't wanna build on Trump. We've been told, ultimately, this is the mayor's decision. I'm not sure what information that they've looked at in terms of the dollars and cents of it or and just and, you know, and and what information they've put into this calculation.

And then the further the the second sort of part to that question is, you know, where does this put us in terms of timeline with regards to a final decision being made where we have an outgoing mayor? Is she prepared to, you know, pull the trigger on something, or is this gonna have to be pushed until the New Year, and does that affect the timing?

Yeah. Thanks thanks for that question, chair. You know, to be clear, you know, what what we're seeking here really is is more directional than anything else because we we still do, for the MSBA feasibility study, explore Trump options and and essentially provide to the MSBA reasons why Trump doesn't work for the community. But, you know, we we still have to have at least two sites to weigh, but all of this information, you know, both from the from the survey and from the CAGS deliberation and another important thing to to remember is that Trump Field is protected under Massachusetts article 97, which means that if we build on it, we absolutely must offset that that loss of open space at at another location. And for the purposes of evaluation on, like, what that would cost, we did estimate what it would cost us to build a softball field at Sycamore Street.

And when you account for that that sort of land offset and construction cost, it actually makes that a more expensive option. So that there there's there's a number of of sort of things lining up that to to to document to MSBA why it is that that Trump would not be a preferred option compared to Sycamore Street. So so I think that, you know, all all of that is is coming into focus fairly well. And the reason why we wanna do this is, again, you know, we're on a certain timeline with the MSBA. You know, we we just we just, through their process, hired the the architect.

The architect is now gonna start the feasibility study, but we wanted to do as much legwork ahead of that formal start of the feasibility study as possible. And I see all of this effort as feeding into this so that as Perkins Eastman starts the feasibility study on day one, We've already done the community outreach. We've already done due diligence on the sites. We've already, worked up some cost estimates. So, you know, we're we're essentially giving that feasibility study a several month head start.

You know? And and all of that is to say that, you know, the city won't be formalizing that report and sending it to MSBA for approval until we're into 2026, which means that it it very much is you know, the next mayor has a lot of influence on that because, you know, really, it's it's gonna be the next mayor in his capacity of being on the school building committee and in his capacity as as, you know, signing the documentation on on the funding agreement, you know, it it does sit there. But for us to cash in on that head start on the feasibility study and getting Perkins Eastman hitting the ground running, you know, we we do want to have that you know, to have all of this work of the CAG wrapped up in December. And and mayor Ballantyne is very much taking this, because she's been been with this, you know, since since the brown since the Winter Hill closed. She's very much invested in in seeing this CAG process through the end and and does want to get that recommendation and make the decision.

But there is the acknowledgment that the next mayor is gonna be the one signing the documents. And and so we we don't exactly know what the contours of it is, but but the the the the thought is that, mayor Ballantyne will will consult with the mayor elect in November and December, before releasing the decision and and, essentially, giving, the the team the their marching orders.

Yeah. And I actually think my my question was a little off base anyway because it's just trying to square a lot of the the past talk and past thought process about, you know, we we should have a a decision in, you know, October or the fall. But then when again, this comes just from so much confusion and it being such a storm that it was never really gonna be the keg that the keg would be would then would inform the mayor. The mayor would be part of the MSBA building group, and then that's where her vote would be part of it. But then, of course, we want obviously want the mayor to be in so it hasn't really affected timeline at all as far as from your point.

I I don't have the graphic in front of me that show you you know, not like it matters at this point anyway, but I just, you know, just thinking kinda looking back in the look look back machine. But so either way, we'll have a new mayor that will be on the MSBA thing, and they'll so they can still take that recommendation for what for what they wanna take it for. Alright. Yeah. I I really you know, the only other thing I was gonna ask, and I this is kind of this meeting's going on a little longer.

You know, we we spent a lot of time on the prompt posting. Was just about the the when when the folks were at the CAG were presented with the the you know, I I don't know what cost analysis they're using or if they're just voting out of their hearts because I know there's a lot of people who feel very passionately about the Brown School. But what were they using to come to their decision as to whether or not they think we should be combined? Like and what what are the alternative options? Like, you know, we've talked about if you have to make the way to school bigger, maybe like, again, this ain't happening because we're building a new school out of this Kennedy, but maybe building onto the Kennedy at one point was so, you know, there was these sort of potential ideas to help with capacity.

Has any of that been part of the discussion? And I'm sorry. Spoke to you. No longer is chomping at the bit over there. Yeah.

For for what the what we presented to the CAG in terms of options, we sort of took the Kennedy option off the table because that for for a number of reasons. It really wasn't pertinent to to the CAG's exploration, but we did update the the cost estimates from that k capacity study to reflect the enrollment numbers that were agreed to with the MSBA, through the eligibility phase, and also just to update the the cost estimates to, you know, $20.25 dollars. So we we ran a number of scenarios for different size schools, different location schools, and came up with with construction cash flows for a number of different scenarios on different timelines, worked with Ed Bean and Mike Mastroboni on then what the the debt service would be. And, you know, we because we don't have valuation projected out, we couldn't actually estimate what the resulting tax bills would be on the debt exclusion for those different scenarios. But we know what the the total debt was for the high school and then what the impacts were on homeowners.

So, you know, we kind of were able to draw an analogy there. So the the the CAG had a number of different scenarios. And I I should be able to share that widely once I update it and and and can get that out.

It's like you said, I'm sure this is all gonna come out in the feasibility study. They're gonna take all this. I'm just I was just trying to get a peek into the folks' heads. I didn't know if in that conversation anybody said the words, and I don't know if this is this is I'm not going on record of saying this, but I've heard something like, you know, in '20 at this point in time where we are, the the the building envelope for where the Brown is, there wouldn't be a possibility of rebuilding a school there, like, least not with any MSBA help. Is that a is that a factual statement?

Through the chair. Yeah. I mean, it it is it's somewhat speculative, and, you know, I I don't think MSBA staff wants to speak for the MSBA board any more than I do. But, essentially, reading the tea leaves, it is exceptionally unlikely that if we don't combine the schools and and then try to address start addressing the Brown under a separate separate application starting in, like, you know, 2032, it would be very unlikely that the MSBA, would be granting the city of Summerville money for that project, at least for the foreseeable future.

Okay. That's all I have. Any colleagues, anything on this? Comments, questions? Councilor Davis, Councilor

Saeed? Yeah. Actually, mister Chen, thank you. If I could just just a clarification that you you asked a question about MSBA funding or financing for a project involving the in some way, involving the existing ground school. And I think I heard director Reish answer a question about the timing of of any potential project.

And so, you know, at this point, honestly, think nobody actually really knows, you know, what members of the of of the MSBA might do in you know, down the road. And as said, it's highly speculative anyways, but I just wanted to clarify that, you know, the the the what what we do know is that what we do know is that with some some confidence is that it would be a bit, if at all, down the road for any MSPA project that involves a renovation of the Brown School. We don't really know as I understand it. You know? There we have no reason to think that that that such a project would or wouldn't be viable purely because of that building itself. Is that fair to say, mister director Reyes?

Yeah. I mean, again, it's it's highly speculative at this point, but the the indications are that the the Brown School would be very much low on the MSBA's list. So it would be a long matter of time, before it would become eligible.

Yeah. No. And I was just asking that because and it's probably rumor mill stuff. I had heard that, like, you know, based on the size of the lot that, you know, you know, based on the size of the lot or whatever. Anyway, yeah. So so there's absolutely the possibility in the future. So but in the meantime, we'd be thinking about if the ground goes down, we gotta we gotta have a plan for another school in the in the short term. Let's hope that doesn't happen. We'll see how this all goes. But okay.

Chair Bhutan, floor is your

Chair, cling in. I will turn it to miss Bhutan.

Thank you, Thruyu. Thank you, director Reish, for giving us this preview of the information. I have a couple quick questions. One, do we know when something's gonna be published about the survey and focus group results?

Through the chair, I think it's just a matter of getting them posted, and and all that. Like, I possibly as early as this week. I'd maybe next week.

Okay.

I I don't think it would be much longer than that.

Yep.

Yeah. Because it sounds like, you know, I didn't know what to expect. I mean, I had some expectations that it was different than what I expected. So I think that it's important that it gets out to the community, obviously, beyond what we're talking about here. Just to clarify, I don't think the CAG has necessarily made a recommendation not to use Trump.

You were saying there was a very clear message from the survey that the people who participated in the survey said they were not interested in Trump. And I also know that the city administration, which I guess is you, is skeptical about the opportunity to do that based on the concerns about cost of replacing the contiguous outdoor space. But the CAG hasn't made a particular recommendation on that. The the last thing is about it seems like this decision making is kind of a moving target that I'm struggling with because the last conversation I asked very explicitly to the district to ask the city who this is, how this decision would be made, and it was the clear message, was that the current mayor was making decision before the end of the year. I totally understand why the current mayor would collaborate with the incoming mayor.

I also totally understand that the CAG is technically the advising body, but we all know that if a mayor is not on board, incoming mayor is not on board, you're really it's really hard to be successful, and MSBA would not be supportive of a plan where they were gonna invest a lot of money in if the current mayor wasn't on board. So it sounds like it's just a lot a little more complicated. And if the CAG makes a particular recommendation, I appreciate that they're going to try to be as nuanced as possible, it sounds like. They they already know that there's kind of camps and positions, and it sounds like they've made some progress to kinda bring people together. But having the idea of having a decision and a descent is really, I think, valuable for the community.

And it just reflects how emotional and complex this decision is. You know, the bottom line is the a decision has to be made to factor in, you know, how accessible our schools are, how safe, and and the risk mitigation concerns that some people have. The cost, you can't take that out of the conversation. And then where does family choice weigh into that decision? And I really respect and I always gonna say this to Kai for taking this on because it is so complicated.

And I look forward to seeing how this process goes. And it sounds like we may or may not have a decision by the end of the year that it may bleed into the next year is what I'm hearing, which is different than what I was told, like, a week and a half ago.

So Through through through the chairs, I'm cautiously optimistic that by the end of this year, we will be able to tell the communities what our preferred, solution is With the caveat that, you know, we still have to go through the process, we have to document everything in a report to MSBA, and MSBA has to agree with that recommendation. So, you know, there there are there are more hurdles. But, you know, from from two perspectives, I think it's really important that by the end of this year, we're we're clear as to what our preferred alternative is. One, because, again, as as I say, I wanna move through the feasibility study as quickly as possible and and give the Perkins Eastman team some clear direction on on all of the the factors that are gonna go into this decision and and so that we're we're not wasting a lot of time and effort on something that isn't supported by the community or the mayor or mayors. You know, it that's important in delivering this project as quickly as possible.

I also wanna acknowledge that, you know, the the the Winter Hill School community in particular really is owed, you know, that direct confirmation of of what direction we're going in. You know, with the acknowledgement that they're still gonna be at the edge of league for a number of years while we design and build the new school, I I I at least want that community to to know where the home is gonna be and likely the size of the building, you know, the the the the general size

of the building that we're looking for.

I I just think that will give that community a lot of solace in in that understanding. So I I I don't think there's any reason for delay. You know, maybe I'm being overly optimistic on how easy it is gonna get, consensus, you know, how the recommendation of the CAC. And, honestly, don't forget, there's also gonna be a staff recommendation. We've said this all along that there's that and and, you know, in all transparency, it's largely myself and Ed Bean that makes the the staff recommendation.

But I'm I'm cautiously optimistic that that both the outgoing and mayor elect will be able to synthesize all that data in in November and December and and come to, you know, sort of the same conclusion on it.

Thank you, Mr. Reish. Doctor. Phillips?

Thanks to you, chair. I just wanted to appreciate Director Reish for that last comment. I think the families at Winter Hill will feel heard and seen, so thank you.

Hey. Not seeing any further discussion here. Go back to you, Chair Klingen.

Thank you. And just one last comment on this. Just just so it's abundantly clear is that whoever the mayor is is gonna be on the MSBA group, and they will have a voice. But, you know and, obviously, we want the mayor to be on board, but those discussions will happen in the MSBA. So, you know, hopefully, we can all have a unanimous decision coming out of the MSBA group that we send up to the MSBA.

So and I have faith in who whoever the mayor is, they will respect the wishes of not only you know, taking all that information into account and and and deliberating and coming up with with the best direction forward. They will support. I don't think we'll have a contentious thing, but, yeah, I guess we'll see. Alright. So that one stays in the committee as usual. Madam Clerk, let's jump over to we'll just get through some of these quickly. Number three, that the director of infrastructure and asset management update the council on when the school building's maintenance project website will be available to the public. That's from council Saeed.

Yeah. To the chair, have to express my apologies to councilor site. We have just been so flat out with all of our priority projects, most of them school related, the Argentinian kitchen, the Argentinian classroom, this MSBA thing, and and trying to it's we just have not had the the person power to to turn our attention to this. Hopefully, as the as the summer construction season winds down, in over December, January, we can work with comms and and make some some progress on this. The other update I can give, which has something of of connected tissue on this, you you've probably heard me talk about the asset management system and the CMMS.

I think we finally finished there's one last term remaining on that contract. I think we'll resolve that tomorrow. That that contract should get signed this week, and that group is chomping at the bit to to launch the CMMS. And and I I I think as as I've described, one of the things that that's gonna do is is give much better reporting, particularly on, like, three one one requests, but also routine maintenance. And we're gonna be able to put, you know, the the the the the additional work that we do on the schools, and there'll be a reporting mechanism out of that. So we're we're one step closer, to to making that a reality for us.

Okay. I appreciate that you are all very busy, and, I look forward to, when we are able to get to this. I I don't know if we're all imagining the same situation. I mean, I I'll turn it over to counsel Saeed to expand on, you know, what her order is about, but we've talked about this before similar to Chelsea where they sort of have their, you know, capital project ideas and what like, whether or not, you know, we're gonna be updating the chiller in 2026. You know? I always I always hear these words. I never knew it before. Chiller. You know? The the these couple of different terms with regards to big systems in the buildings.

So I'm happy I'll I'll I'll be happy when that goes up so people can really get kinda go to the school department website of wherever this is gonna live and and look at the school buildings and see, you know, what's what's in the pipeline, what's happening, or what, you know, what's in the future. Council site, you're the originator of this item. Take it

right here. The chair. Yeah. I thank you, director Raid, for the update, and I understand September and October are really busy busy months in the schools. Unfortunately, we missed an opportunity again to have all those updates on the website so constituents, school parents really see, like, all the work we're doing in the buildings.

But to your point to question, chair about what I'm what's my request here. This director Rach explained, briefly the, what his staff are working on or hoping to have, like, live on a website. Yeah. So I just wanna clarify that I'm not here telling you how to do your job. I just want the information to live in one place and for updates to be added consist regularly to a website.

So, yeah, happy to keep this one in committee so we can, take it up next month, whenever we meet next.

Yeah. Absolutely. What I was just saying, counselor, is that there's been talk about something similar. I wanna and I don't know if you're talking about the exact same thing. So, like, you know, I hate to for them to do some work put some information out, and then it's not, you know, exactly what you were looking for or you know?

I mean, so I think we can we can work together to make sure that, you know, whether it's smaller things or whether it's, like, for instance, the stuff, like, over the summer, like, it's posted that, like, we we have these great things at the DPW and that the I'm team was able to accomplish through the summer months. You know, everything from the small to the to the long term come down. Yeah. So I don't know where that could get discussed offline between, you know, counselors and and school staff or or or here. We tend to have a agenda that runs long, especially with the two bodies. But yeah. So we're gonna keep this in committee anyway. So we'll Brad, do wanna keep this in committee?

Yes. I would like that chair. And I can reach out to director Rach offline about this. But last time we discussed it, we discussed this in committee. It was very Yeah. Sounded like this is the very initial phase. So director staff, Imagine, is open to suggestions and to what, like, parents, school parents are looking for here. And, yeah. And we are we're about to build a new school, and having a place where people can get updates is important.

Yeah. Yeah. I think so just real quick declaration. I'm not trying to put anybody work any work on anybody or shift things, but this is where it gets a little interesting where we have, like because I understand the mayor's comms team, you know, I don't know how busy they are on a daily basis, but would this be, like, something where we could talk to the school side comms team? Would this even be something that would be on the k 12 side of things or the city? This is because it's, you know, I know it's d p it's school. It's it's the city side, the buildings, but I don't know. Do you have any idea where where this would live in your mind?

Yeah. We we've always envisioned it as being on the coming out of the city comms and being either on IAM or DPW, pages. And, yeah, that's just sort of the the way we envisioned it.

Okay. Alright. So then we'll have to talk about this more. Let me turn it over to the school side for any questions or comments. Chair Bhutan.

Thanks. I wonder if counselor Saeed had another thing to add. No? Okay.

He can just do it. No. It's your hand.

We just do it. That's fine. Residual hand. I didn't have any question. Do I see anything from my colleagues? No. No. I think we're good.

Okay. Alright. Yeah. I don't know if any of you have ever checked out that. And by the way, it's funny to point it out since it's not really updated, but Chelsea did have a good theme going for a while where they have, you know, the different schools and what's happening you know, construction that's happening in those schools. Alright. So let's, we'll keep that one committee, madam clerk, and we will move on. So we'll quickly we'll do item number five, that the commissioner of public works provide information regarding installation, safety, and accessibility of a railing of the concrete stairs between the play structures, soccer field, Winter Hill, and the Innovation School playground. I've been working with the administration for a while on this. Council Strazo put an order in last meeting.

There is a memo attached. This railing will be installed. There, you know, there was a lot of back and forth for a bit about you know, because there was a massive community like, big community process around this, and the design was a design. So the but then some conditions change. It's not acting as a schoolyard. Like, there was a differentiation where when it was a schoolyard. So, anyway, the the the parks department in the city has has agreed to put a railing in. As it's been pointed out by some constituents that it's the only fully like, only accessible slide in the city. Okay. We have, liaison Radasi. I see your hand up.

Thank you, mister chair. Just a quick correction. Not parks department, public, public space and urban forestry, PSF under director, Oliveira.

Perfect. Thank you. Alright. So this is done. We're complete. Number five, madam clerk. It's happening. Item number six. We might need director for this. That the administration informed this council of the process, action, and communication used to consider acquiring the acquiring the closed school building privately owned by the Archdiocese of Boston on Thurston Street after the Window Community School Innovation School was deemed suitable for use.

So this kinda speaks to you know? And I've been talking about this for a while because I do feel like, you know, we have an opportunity to sort of build a a larger sort of campus style. The the the Saint Anne's school building is no longer in use. It's it's vacant. It's sort of directly adjacent to the Winter Hills School.

So it just the way it would be in terms of the layout, it would be, a really great opportunity to be able to increase capacity on the site without going too high and then having to rely on elevators. So that's why I've been continually talking about this site, and I don't wanna lose the opportunity to to be able to acquire this site if, you know, if if it ends up getting sold or into some twenty year lease with a charter school or something like that. So can you just give us an update on where you know, if you last time you talked to the archdiocese and whether or not they're open to a sale? Should we take it by eminent domain? Nobody's doing that now.

Yeah. So director Reich, turning it over to you, sir.

So to to the chair. I last talked with the archdiocese a little over a month ago about this property. We're not, you know, in a position where we're ready to to jump in and make an offer because we still have a number of of steps to to go through on the MSBA process. You know? The the late breaking news of, like, an hour ago that Trump Field is proving to be pretty unpopular is late breaking news.

Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. And, you know, so they we're we're not in a position to to be making a a solid offer, but the archdiocese is still open and discussing with with a few different entities, you know, what what could happen there. So the the conversation remains open.

Mhmm.

And and I think it's in terms of a potential negotiation, that's probably about as as far as we wanna talk about it in a nonexecutive session sort of setting.

I gotcha. Alright. Well, thank you for that. I'm I'm tempted to leave it in a committee, but I'll probably work complete it. Not yet. I wanna hear from the school side and stuff. But but I but I I really you know, it makes me anxious to think that, you know, the window could close on that. But, again, it's all timing, and you're right. The timing is not right. We don't even know what we're doing.

But it's good to, you know, keep I I just wanna, like we wanna keep bringing this up to you all to to let you know that because I don't know what the challenges are. Like, if the higher you you know, if you have five floors on a school, you know, is that too much for the little like, you you know, I mean, maybe older kids, like, that's where the, you know, the the the professionals come in, but it's always I've always heard that we didn't wanna build too high up on that site because of the incline, but that could be that could be also that challenge could also be met in some other way as well. So we just wanna kinda keep keep the eyes on the possibility. It'd be a great way to expand the footprint of the school. Okay.

Anything from the school the city council side? Nothing. Anything from the school committee side?

Well, I'll just take this opportunity, chair Klingen, to echo your interest in, exploring this opportunity. And I have great faith in mister Reich and his team that they are doing everything that they need to do. And, without having any interest in jeopardizing potential negotiations, I will leave it to them to, you know, find the best path forward if such a path exists. So just full support, in that exploration at least. And, not seeing anything from my colleagues. Nope. I will turn it back to you, Chair Klingon.

Thank you. You know, I am gonna work complete this. Like, you know, like, I've been talking behind the scenes about a council to put this in. And like I said, I'm just backing airplay as a way to have have you know, make sure that we're keeping an eye on this. But let's work complete this. And

Chair Klingen, I I apologize. I see a late breaking hand from miss Patel.

I will

turn it back. Not a problem. Back to you.

Thank you. Through you, chair. You know, in a in an ideal world, it would be great to have more property at Sycamore Street. That's a given. But I also wanna acknowledge and recognize that if that is gonna be part of the calculus, it's gonna cost money.

Whether it's to buy the property, whether it's to dismantle and take down what's already there, it's not a zero cost consideration. Again, in my fantasy, I'd love that we'd have that property and be able to work with that. And I know that the city folk would too, but it's gonna be have to be something that's factored, and I totally trust the city to put that in their analysis. But it it would be tremendous to have that extra space and add more outdoor space and have a little more breathing room for a building that's considered at Sycamore Street. Thank

You're welcome. And, you know, one of the good news is that the consultant, I think, that we end up going with or at least some of the I know one of the consultants or two maybe, they're aware of this site, and they're aware of, you know, the these conversations, and they do have they did have it in their presentation when we were picking firms. So it's very much, you know, gonna probably be part of the calculation and conversation. So oh, absolutely. It's yeah.

It's it it it will increase the cost, but it's just from everything where I was hearing about capacity and, you know, challenges of building. So, yeah, hopefully, we can, make something something work. Alright. Madam clerk, we will work complete item number six. Moving on to item item number seven by, the director of health and human services inform this council which buildings have menstrual products available and which buildings have inoperable menstrual product dispensers, and when are they scheduled to be replaced.

There is a memo on file, from the DPW commissioner in charge of buildings, and it's it basically has a list of the schools. They state in the memo that as far as they know, there are no inoperable dispensers. I'll just read a little bit of it. So the only school that do not have dispensers are the Capuana, which is an early childhood center, and the Brown, which goes up to fifth grade. SPS administration and DPW are not aware of any inoperable menstrual product dispensers in school buildings. If individuals are aware of an issue with the dispenser, notify SPS administration, and the city will work to get the get it resolved. Then they have a list of the schools.

So and they also note that, you know,

metro products are available at all the nurses' offices in

in all the schools, but there are dispensers in all of the schools except two. And

yeah. So I think that's pretty answers that pretty definitively. You can check back with counsel Strazo as far as what she's hearing about inoperable dispensers, and that's with that, I will turn it over to colleagues. Councilor Saeed, the floor is yours.

Through the chairs, since since we have staff from the schools here, I just wanna ask in the event dispenser is broken or what what is the process for making sure it's fixed? And, yeah, that's my question.

I think this will go ahead. Director Barry? I thought it was Barry. Is it Barry, or is it just spelled wrong on

your thing? Spelled wrong. It's okay. It's Barry, b a r r y. That's okay.

Like, I'm like, I've always thought your name was Barry. And I do know that there is, yeah, there is, like, a a a you're trying a a different reporting system instead of having staff put in three one one. So I'll let you speak to that.

Oh, so through you, chair. Thank you. First off, several public schools is very appreciative to DPW, commissioner Lathan, Liz Cortiello, and Karen Carroll in health and human services for getting this program into all of our k through eight schools.

We can't forget councilor Strazo.

Yes. Who actually her and I had a great conversation about this last night after the CAG meeting. As I was at the high school, I was like, oh, I'm gonna check some of these while I'm here. And to come to find out they're they were in working order, and we have no data that shows any of these being out of service. And the correct way to report if they are out of service is via 311 request.

And just a little background on how we do the 311 request. So, typically, at school level, either the school secretary or the school principal or AP will enter the 311 request. Amara, Anasike, and myself are typically always cc'd on those. So we see everything that's coming through. That way, their way are in the loop of what's happening in all of the buildings. But at this time, we show no data saying that any of them are inoperable.

What they say?

Thank you. Follow-up question. Yeah. It's it's great to hear they're all functioning. Is, if can can you tell tell us, very briefly how does the refill in, how often do they get refilled, and if, you know, we have some schools that need them more than others, and how do we address that?

So through you, chair yes. So our custodians are the ones that are refilling the products. I don't have specific data on how frequently they're being used. You know, if at the high school, they may be being restocked more than in the k through eights. I would say Liz Cortiello would be the one to have that data. I'm happy to ask her to share that, in collaboration with DPW and the custodial

staff. Yeah.

Thank you

for that. Yeah.

I think just thinking since we have this item, we're having this conversation about, you know, I can just imagine currently, you know, that family we I'm sure, you know, that there are families who are making these choices between food on the table and Mhmm. Getting these products for their students is just to be mindful of that. And if that are if they the students, you know, go through them within, like, the first couple hours of the day to think about refilling them, or they can go to the nurse. Having spent years, you know, in the high school building, you know, that's where we need them the most. And, yeah, that usually, that's the issue where they're just they're just not on by 10AM.

So you go to the nurse, and not every teacher, you know, will let the students go to the nurse, you know, like, the whole dynamic. So just thinking about that. Yeah. Right now, we're, like, learning that many families are gonna lose their SNAP benefits. So I'm sure hard decisions will have to be made in terms of put food on the table, getting things that students need. Thank you.

You're welcome. I'm happy to get the data. And, also, in the buildings, including the high school that I have done spot checks on, they have been at least three quarters of the way full. So it seems like they're being checked as often as toilet paper, soap, paper towels, things to that matter.

Well, that's great to hear. Yeah.

And the kids are using the honor system, it sounds like. You know? Because I imagine scenarios where, you know, somebody's, taking more than share. Alright. So anything on this side? No? Alright. So we'll turn it over to you, chair Bhutan.

Thank you, chair Klingon. So because at our schools, our students are allowed to use whichever bathroom best represents their gender identity. Not every student who uses a a boys' room, or let me rephrase that. Some of the students who use the boys' room may be menstruating. And, I noticed in the list that, there were some gender neutral bathrooms, but they were there were no boys' rooms listed.

And and I that surprised me a little bit, for the high school. I do know that, you know, it may get more complicated placing dispensers in the boys' rooms. So I don't know, miss Barry, if you could speak a little bit about how those are placed and if that has been a topic of conversation. And you know? Because I I really wanna make sure that we are serving all our kids and make sure that, you know, everyone is supported to the, to the best extent possible. Yeah. We'll leave it there.

Through you, Chair. So I wasn't originally part of this conversation as to where the dispensers would be located within the school building, but I'm happy to find out how the decision was made as to where they would going to be installed and get back to you on that.

I appreciate that. Thank you.

Absolutely.

Miss Patone?

Oh, thank you. Through you. I just wanna thank you for bringing that up. I think, you know, obviously, there's some decision that a gender neutral balance room. I don't wanna make assumptions, but the way I'm reading this is that a gender neutral bathroom would be an option for any student that's seeking for something, you have flagged. It looks like the only school that doesn't have one in a gender neutral bathroom is the Argentinian, unless I'm reading it wrong. So I'll be curious, and I just wanna thank mister, Botone for flagging that.

Thank you, miss Botone. Okay. So, Ms. Barry, we'll look forward to hearing from you back about those two questions then, and, I'd be happy to relay it to the other counselors here and turn it back to you, Chair Klingon.

Okay. Thank you. So do we do we want it? Do we wanna keep this thing ready? Is that why I'm here?

To get those follow-up questions answered? Alright. We'll keep it in committee. Alright. So item number seven, madam clerk will be kept in committee.

Moving on to item and it's our last item. Item number eight. Let the director of infrastructure and asset management provide an update on the condition of the high school building exterior tiles and efforts to prevent and mitigate mitigate future tile failures. I do I know I remember there was a notification that went out telling neighbors and people and folks that, there was some drone activity. There was some investigating going on using the use of drones.

And, you know, there's certainly a lot of concern about tiles, tiles falling. Director director Rich, you're still here, right, to speak on this one? Mhmm. Tiles this high school tile situation. The floor is yours.

Okay. Thank you, chair. Yeah. So we'd soon after the event happened in late September, we did provide a memo to the school committee and copied the city council on the situation. So, you know, I'll just sort of reference that in terms of the history of the tiles.

Since that time well, I believe the date of that memo was September 29. Since that time, we've continued investigations. We did bring in a a third party, an outside independent third party to review the the situation. That was the company that flew the drones that was flown on October 6. They turned their report right around on October 8 and supplied that to the company Sunrise that was doing the hands on in inspections.

They were thankful for that additional information that helped them sort of triage and prioritize their hands on inspection. At this point in time, they have finished, inspecting all the areas of the school that they could reach via boom lift. There are some additional areas that they need swing staging to to get to, and they're getting to those areas, this week. And and so the entire building should be wrapped up in terms of the inspections by next week. They've been documenting everything they've been doing.

They've brought in the manufacturer of the system. They're a licensed installer of that manufacturer and are reviewing all of their findings with that manufacturer as well. And and they've they've been giving us updates. We will get a a full report once everything is is complete. The the good news is that they did discover the root cause of the the tile that fell in the rear of the the building.

It was the same location as last year. It was the replacement tile that fell this year. They know what that that cause was. They did a lot of investigations, pulling off tiles to see if that situation was, happening elsewhere. It was it was not, in in all the areas that they, investigated.

They also came up with a a less invasive way of measuring for that, which was approved by the manufacturer and and everybody that reviewed it and and proceeded to do the investigations for the remainder of the building using that methodology. There was a a nice sort of endorsement. Principal Kirsten had been sort of spying on them, watching them do the investigations, and and she remarked to the team how thorough those investigations were and and how she she was feeling assured that, you know, that that the the investigation was being conducted in a very thorough manner. So we're we're hoping to have the a final report early November, and we can disseminate that to to to everyone. But things are things are tracking well.

K. I don't see any questions on our side. Turning it over to chair Bhutan.

Thank you, chair Klingon. I well, I did see doctor Phillips with her hand up earlier. Is that do you still wanna speak?

Mr. Vaish went on to address my question, so I put it down. Thank you.

He has a knack for that. Well, I will ask a question that I I'm not sure if if you know the answer to, but, we'll we'll give it a shot. So I understand that the tile as with last time, the tile, fell and struck a a a parked vehicle. No one was hurt. Thank thank goodness. Do you know whether the damage to the vehicle is covered under the insurance for the the building?

That's actually a good question that I can't answer off the top of my head. I'll have to get back to you, on that. I I also don't know how extensive the damage was. Those buses are kinda be up as they are, but I'll I'll get back to you with a with a definitive answer on that.

Appreciate that. Doctor Phillips?

Sorry. I did have a question. What was the root cause?

So the the root cause is and and how that panel was installed originally was out of specification. So the the the the it it's a it's a whole system, and there are metal rails that run vertically. And they have predrilled holes in in those metal rails at exacting locations. And then metal clips go into those rails, and the terracotta tiles sit on those clips. And and the the location of those holes are are really exact specification so that the top and bottom of those tiles sit up against that.

And there's also gaskets on the back that sort of provide outward force so that they don't rattle around. What had happened during the installation of that particular tile, and it's unknown why because it's clearly out of specification and and against the manufacturer's policy and against the installer's policy. But whoever put that tile in elongated those holes, the the bottom holes for for the, you know, the the bottom of the bottom two of the four clips. And so they were larger, and over time, the bottom clips sort of worked their way down, which meant that the the top of of it then came free from the top clips. The the the installer is mortified that one of their laborers had done that, which is also why they went to the extreme measures of pulling off as many panels as they did to see that no other holes were elongated and then came up with this measuring device that they could do that from the outside.

So that was that was the root cause of it. It was a a laborer doing something out of specification on that one bloody tile.

And and thus began a great investigation. Only the laborer had spent you know, that that goes to the the old adage, measure measure twice, cut once. Yeah.

In this case, measure twice and don't cut.

Don't cut. There we are. Alright. Chair Klingon, I think we're at the end. I'll turn it to you. Appreciate it.

Okay. Great. Well, that's everything on our agenda. Any questions, madam clerk, on disposition of any items? Or you want everything done?

Yeah. Just what what do we like to do

with this last item?

Oh, any recommendation from school committee side?

I I I think we have a commitment from Mr. Reish to send us the final report, so I think we can close this and, look at that when we get it.

Alright. Perfect. So we're complete on that one, madam clerk. Perfect. And then I would councilor Davis moves to adjourn so roll call on adjournment and the minutes from the September 15 meeting.

Perfect. Okay. So on approving item number one, the minutes and adjournment. Councilor Saite? Yes. Councilor Davis? Yes. Chair Klingen?

Yes.

Alright. It is 07:46, and that's all in favor of adjourning in the minutes.

Alright. Thank you, school committee.

Thank you, and we are adjourned. Appreciate it.

Alright. Have a good night. Bye bye.