Finance Committee - Regular Meeting

Hello, everyone. I am Ben Wheeler, he, him pronouns, counselor at large, and finance committee chair. It is 6PM on the dot, and I'd like to call to order the Tuesday, 04/21/2026 meeting of the finance committee of the Summerville City Council. This meeting of the city council committee will be conducted via remote participation following chapter two of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts' acts of 2025. We'll post an audio video recording and comprehensive record of these proceedings as soon as possible after the meeting on the City Of Somerville website and local cable access government channels. We are joined by clerk Delaney Fisher Casio. Clerk, could you please call the roll to establish quorum?

Absolutely. This is roll call. Councilor Link?

Here.

Councilor Strazo? Present. Councilor Hart? Here. Councilor Scott?

Present.

Chair Wheeler?

Here.

Alright. With that, we do have all members present, so we have quorum.

Thank you. We will be taking up our 19 item agenda in the order posted. As a general note, if I pronounce your name wrong or I get your title wrong or use the wrong pronouns for please don't hesitate to interrupt me. I wanna get it right. Okay. So starting off with the minutes, ID 26Dash0640, approval of the April. Is there any discussion of these minutes? Seeing none, that item is laid on the table to recommend approval at the end of the meeting. Item two, ID26Dash0601, a $125,000 grant for Dillboy Field Lighting. Sorry.

I'm let me read the actual text of the title. Requesting approval to accept and expend a $125,000 grant that requires a match from the Department of Energy Resources to the Office of Sustainability and Environment for Light Retrofitting at Dillboy Field. We have director of sustainability and environment, Steven Nutter here. Director Nutter, could you please tell us about this grant?

Hello, and and and welcome. Good evening, finance committee and, chair and vice chair. My name is Steven Nutter. I'm the director of the office of sustainability environment, and I'm here to request your approval and acceptance of a $125,000, from the state, the Department of Energy's, green communities program, to help the cost of replacing the lighting at Dillboy Field. We originally, had taken about $300,000 from the energy stabilization fund earlier this year, to pay for this grant, to pay for this project.

And then in March, we were awarded a $125,000 from the state to cover that effectively reducing the cost of our of our project to about a $175,000, which reduces the payback significantly down to just over almost a about a year one point four years. So here's tonight to to ask for you to accept this grant. It will one of our it's one it's one of our our key projects to to do replace lighting around the city to reduce our operational costs, reduce our our and and help de de decarbonize our our facilities and operations in general.

Thank you, director. Members of the committee, do you have any comments or questions? Director Nutter, how does lighting add to decarbonization?

Well, the the the current lighting system there is it it uses, you know, pretty significant amount of energy and generates a lot of heat. You might also hear a buzzing, as you're as you're up in the in that area. These are LED lights, the you know, one of the the the latest that we have, and so they're very bright. They're they're also controlled, remotely. So you don't necessarily have to go to be on-site to do these things, to turn them on and off and that sort of thing. And, you know, just generally, it's a much lower energy cost.

Thank you. I see councilor Scott. Mhmm.

Yeah. Thank you, mister chair. Just one thing. I just wanted to make I wanted to ask if you've, identified and specified the lighting that's gonna get procured and installed here yet.

Yeah. Chair, through you, I, we we have a a consultant, AECOM, who has prepared our, our lighting design and program. I don't believe we've actually procured them yet, but it's been specified in the in the documents.

Alright. Now I just wanna make sure that, that y'all have paid attention to the, you know, dark sky requirements and, like, the frequency of that light. You know, sometimes we've had some lights procured that were very blue, that are outside of our policy. Is that something y'all reviewed as we were preparing it?

I I can't tell you, if I if it was reviewed, during the process, but we did have a conversation, recently, with the Public Space and Urban Forestry, talking about some of some of

these

items. I can follow-up with you, after the meeting with specific information if you like.

Yeah. I'd I'd appreciate that. I just wanna make sure that we're sticking by the the ordinances we have on on file here. So, if you could, just follow-up with me later, I just wanna make sure, what we're procuring is not gonna be a mistake that we're gonna be stuck with for fifty years. So appreciate it.

Thank you, counselor. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, as they say. Any other comments or or questions or concerns from committee members? Okay. Seeing none, that item is placed on the table to recommend approval at the end of the meeting. Thank you, director. Okay.

Thank you.

Take care. We have, item three, ID 26Dash0506, requesting approval to accept and expand a $30,000 gift from the Carnegie Corporation of New York to the public library for library operations. And I believe we have library director Kathy Piantagini here. Director Piantagini, would you please tell us about this gift?

Sure thing. Hi, counselors. So you may all know already, but each one of our existing library structures was built with Carnegie money back in the early nineteen hundreds. And out of the blue, a little more than a year ago, the Carnegie Foundation reached out to municipalities that still have their Carnegie buildings being used as public libraries to say, hey. You know, in recognition of, you know, the two hundred and fiftieth anniversary of the declaration of independence, we would like to make a gift, and the gift is $10,000 per existing library.

So for Somerville, that was three libraries and $30,000.

Wonderful news. Any questions or comments from committee members? I see councilor Hurt.

Hi. Thank you so much, and thank you for for being here tonight through the chair. I'm just curious if you could tell us a little bit more about, if you have already in mind, what you plan to use the money for or any priorities. Thank you.

Through you to the to counselor Wheeler or through counselor Wheeler to you. Sorry. Don't way

you wanna put it is fine. Yeah. Thank

you. I don't have any, immediate plans to use it. I like the idea that it's gonna go into our consolidated I'm assuming it will go into our consolidated gift account. And the gift is unrestricted, so it could be a good opportunity to just supplement the services that we already, you know, are offering.

Thank you. Mhmm.

Thank you, director. Are there any other questions from members of the committee? Okay. Seeing none, I'm very happy to lay this item on the table to recommend approval at the end of the meeting. Next one is also library related. Item four, ID 26Dash0507, requesting approval to accept an extended $300 gift from James and Linda Hyson to the public library for materials for the West Branch Library. Director Piantagini, could you tell us about this gift, please?

Sure thing. So from time to time, we receive donations to the library from individuals. In this case, the Hyson family. It was a donation in recognition of a relative gay Hyson who was a longtime volunteer for the Somerville Library, particularly at the West Branch, who passed away recently. And because of the the check that we received from the Carnegie Foundation so, typically, these checks of smaller amounts of money, when they're received, they automatically just get inputted, and we send them off to the finance department.

But what I learned was that it seems like any sort of donation that's made to the library should go before the finance committee, and so that's why you're starting to see this particular donation. So this happens a couple of times a year, particularly around the holidays, excuse me, where we'll get, you know, a donation in in recognition of somebody's wedding or, you know, somebody passing or because it's, like, the holidays, and that's what that is.

Thank you so much. Mhmm. Unless there's any questions or comments, this item is laid on the table to recommend approval at the end of the meeting. Thank you, director.

Sure thing. Thanks, everybody.

Okay. Contracts and agreements. Item five, ID 26Dash0512, requesting approval of a five year extension to the lease with BWB Square LLC for Nibble Community Kitchen. Now I believe we have I always need to to check to make sure. Yes. I think we have both, program coordinator Anthony Baum and ARPA director Erica Satine Hernandez. Coordinator Baum or director Satine Hernandez, can you please tell us about this lease extension?

Absolutely. Thank you, committee, for the time this evening. This is a five year lease extension for the existing, Nibble Kitchen location at Boat Market in Union Square, and we are looking to extend our lease by five years essentially to continue operations, and to expand our our reach and our bandwidth. The the kit the community kitchen, excuse me, is sort of the physical location and central hub of the overarching Nibble entrepreneurship or culinary entrepreneurship program.

Thank you. And director Sadin Hernandez, do you have anything that you wish to add about this? K.

Thanks. Tony has covered it, very well, and I'll I'll leave to him, and I'll be supportive where needed. Thanks.

Thank you. I see counselor Strezo.

How's it going? Thanks a lot, miss Durcher. Okay. So I had reached out to the administration earlier, about this, the rent, price proposal form and the contract and the lease signature and, wanted to note that looks like from the first year to the fifth year in that the lease price has increased 8,000 from, 40 k ish the first year, now to 48,600. And with that, in a time where as we've discussed in, the budget conversation what was it last week, two weeks ago?

How excise taxes are down specifically for rent, restaurants and how how people aren't dining out as much right now because everybody's tightening their belts. A lot of people are are not doing well financially, and there is a very good intuition that this will increase. As Nibel Kitchen is a restaurant, I was really hoping to also include in the conversation office either economic development or OSPCD to to discuss what what the financial plan or what the business plan going forward with Nibble Kitchen in the years to come with an $8,000 increase from five years of rent increase in a time where people aren't dining out as much. What is the plan to make sure that everybody's okay financially and that if as many diners aren't going out to Nibble Kitchen, what is what's the plan? How, what's the forecast, or what are you thinking going forward?

Yeah.

Yes. Thank you for the question. Through the chair, I would push back slightly on the notion that people are not dining out as much or their revenues are down. Our program revenues derived through, kitchen sales and through, you know, direct revenue are consistent over the last five years with with blips, with ups and downs. But during that time, we had to endure COVID, of course, and also, pretty stark moments of inflation.

And our program revenues mostly drive through kitchen operations have been quite consistent throughout that time. You'll you'll see in the memo that the estimate, that we will need to bring in through program revenues is $5,000 monthly, and that's not restaurant revenue. That's program revenue from the contribution of our program users. We operate on a profit sharing model, is $5,000 and that we have consistently over the last five years that I've been in charge of this program, have consistently brought in between 4,000 and 4,500, in program revenue per month, and that's without any specific decision making or without a clear goal in mind. So I we feel quite confident that with this information, knowing exactly what it is that we need to, achieve in revenues and having a clearly stated goal that we'll be able to impact our decision making, we'll comfortably be able to increase that revenue from $4,500 monthly to around $5,000 monthly.

And also noted in the memo, we received, a jobs creation and retention trust grant in the amount of $50,000 for the next two years. And we feel that with both that grant providing a cushion and for, future grants that we intend to apply for, we're we feel quite comfortable that we'll be able to derive the necessary revenues.

Through through the chair. You, mister Baum, thank you for that. I gently push back that it is not accurate that people are going out and not not dining as much. We have the absolute numbers and statistics to prove that's true. And even just, you know, as I've mentioned before, the Boston Globe article very recently that people are eating more at home.

They're not going out to eat at restaurants as much. And, yeah, there has been a lot of endurance between the the pandemic when I first started serving and and just, oh my gosh, what are restaurants gonna do to now? And I'll make it clear that I I very much appreciate Nibble Kitchen's presence in our city and its importance because it is important. So I'm I support this. There is no concern about that at all.

I worry about with the bleak forecast of how that looks and wanted to know if there was a thought on that, and I appreciate your answer. But, yes, people are not financially doing well and wanna make sure. And when we talk about this next time it's come up, I I hope in I the just an open conversation about it and and make sure that you continue to do well in the years to come. Thank you.

Thank you. And just through the chair to clarify my point, it was only reflective of Nibble's performance over the past handful of years, not the industry as a as a whole.

Thank you. I see councilor Link.

Thank you, chair. Through you, I just wanna say how much I I love Nobel Kitchen. I'm I'm so glad that we're able to continue this. You know, it's it's it's kinda in my neck of the woods, so I get to go there regularly, see all of these different amazing, like, startup restaurants. You know, my favorite being Caralicious, which has done such a great job starting in Nimble Kitchen and, you know, just expanding.

And it's really great to see that this I mean, it's just it's it's such a great service. It's such a great, you know, engine to our our our restaurants. You know, it it's it's a it is a you know, an amazing thing. I'm very happy to support it. Thank you.

Thank you very much.

I see councilor Scott.

Thank you, mister chair. I've I just wanted to point out that this is, basically just a continuation exercising the option on lease that Citi already has. I wanted to check-in on that because we are at the, you know, we the original contract had a three year extension option in it. Is this just exercising that, or are we, tacking on extra years in the extension?

Through the chair. The initial lease was, as you're stating, for five years with the additional option of three years. We have been in this lease or we have, been in this location for the full eight years of the first lease term. This is to sign a brand new lease for five years with three additional years, as an option at the end of that five years.

Okay. Okay. Okay. Then I just want to so if I'm looking at, the rent price proposal form, is that the, is that the piece that I'm looking at here as the new five year agreement?

Should I see on my screen is the memo submitted by the interim director, Rachel Strutt.

No. I understand. There is a document attached here that says rent price proposal form amended.

Mhmm.

So that's that's the new agreement? Correct. Alright. Okay. Alright. So this is alright. So this new lease mirrors the original lease of the five plus three. We're creating a new five plus three based on that baseline. I'm just, this is a pretty standard 5% increases here. Is that is it a 5% increase that we're attacking on from year eight's rent in the new renewal here?

It is a 25% increase over the previous, lease and then five years annually after that.

Ah, okay. So it's it's a pretty big step up here. Alright. Just trying to understand if we were in the yeah. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. Alright. Well, prices go up, but, this is a great program, and it is something that I think is is one of the better successes in terms of business development and, actually putting folks on a path to success. So 25% rent increase. I know some of my constituents can sympathize, but, I'm happy to vote in favor of this, mister chair. Thank you.

Thanks. I have a quick question about this. How do the finances work if, more or less, Nipple Kitchen is covering the rent with income? Does this is the city sort of agreeing to be effectively on the hook for this rent if necessary, but that that may not actually turn out to be necessary, or is the city paying the rent and then, income is is being sort of kept in some other account.

My understanding and Erica may be able to jump in with more detail. My understanding is that Nibble operates its own or has its own bank account system within the Arts Council's overall budgeting, and that our revenues go directly into that account, and then rent obligations and other expenses are paid directly from that account. So it is the arts counts you know, it's the city that is on the hook for it, so to speak, but it is Nibble revenue coming in, Nibble expenses going out. So there is a clear delineation between arts council budgeting, and arts council expenses versus specifically for this program.

I see. And and maybe that's why this is not a request for us to appropriate money for this. It's just kind of agreeing to this, to this contract, agreeing to this agreement. And I I saw a hand from director Setyan Hernandez, but then I saw it go away. Feel free to jump in.

Mister chair, I just would point out that any lease, over three years has to be approved by the city council. There's an ordinance that council White passed a bunch of years ago, so this would have to come up.

Thank you.

Thank you. Keith, through you, I think, you know, if we can ask a little bit more detail from, I'm thinking, our our law and procurement departments about the ownership of the lease more technically. But to Anthony's point, yes, all of this is covered through revolving accounts and not through the general fund to my knowledge, but we can follow-up written afterwards.

Well, thank you both very much. Are there any other questions or comments from members of the committee? I could go for an right about now. Appreciating Caralicious, appreciating Nipple, and appreciating what you do. Thanks a lot. Seeing no further discussion, this item is laid on the table to recommend approval at the end of the meeting. Okay. Moving on to item six, ID twenty six dash zero five one three, requesting approval to appropriate $46,500 from the street tree stabilization fund for fiscal year twenty twenty six ash tree treatments. Say that 10 times fast. And I believe we have urban forestry and landscape planner Vanessa Bukele here. Planner Bukele, am I saying your name correctly?

You are. Yes.

Okay. Wonderful. Well, please take it away. Tell us about this appropriation.

Great. Thank you. Yes. This request is for our annual ash tree treatment. This is a a biannual treatment for all healthy ash trees in the city.

It's an injection of a neem oil, based treatment that protects ash trees against emerald ash borer, which is an invasive species that has been, positively identified in Summerville as of 2018. So we are attempting to successfully, I might say, attempting to preserve all of our healthy ash trees in the city by performing these biannual treatments. Biannual meaning every two years, not twice a year. So we have received funding in the past for this treatment. Not not exactly received, but used Street Tree Stabilization Fund funds for this treatment in the past, and, we did it again this year. Happy to take any question.

Thank you, director or planner. Are there any questions or comments from the counselors on the committee? Counselor Link.

Yep. Sorry, Cher. Just a quick question. I'm just curious. Do we have an, like, approximation of how many how many Ashtrees are are left?

We do.

Through the chair, we have approximately 956 public ash trees in the city. About 750 of those are on city property, and the other couple 100 are on DCR and state other state land. Not all of those are healthy, but, most of them are. We've been treating for about ten years now. Anything that's, healthy and reasonable in a good good enough condition and a reasonable spot to treat. And the other ones are we we take them out as needed, but most of them are doing really well.

Wonderful. Thank you. I see councilor Hart.

Thank you, chair. And through you, I was just curious, do you know where where do the funds in the Street Tree Stabilization Fund come from? Is it a specific allocation?

Great question. Through the chair. The funds for the for the street tree stabilization fund come from various sources. Sometimes there's a lot of it is from mitigation payments from our private tree removal, ordinance, most of the recent ones. Or if a street tree is illegally removed, we will, receive mitigation payment fines for that as well.

Before that, I think some funds have also been transferred into the stabilization fund from other other capital sources, but I can't recall offhand what those may be.

Thank you. Mhmm.

I see. Councilor Scott.

Yeah. I just wanted to echo that that, most of this money comes in from, payments that we get from folks, let's say, belatedly complying with our tree removal ordinance. So, just another great feather in the cap for the advocates that fought for that, way back in the day, and, I'm glad to hear it. Glad that we're getting to use that money to keep protecting trees.

Great. Any other comments or questions from members of the committee? Okay. Seeing none, this item is laid on the table to recommend approval at the end of the meeting. Thank you, planner.

Thank you.

Okay. On to item seven, ID 26Dash0603, requesting approval of a transfer of $31,800 from the communications and community engagement salaries account to the communications and community engagement professional and technical services and printing and stationery accounts for compliance with the Americans with Disabilities Act and program signage. And I believe we have communications director Denise Taylor here. Director Taylor, would you please tell us about this transfer?

Sure. Through the chair to the full committee, thank you for being here. This is a request to move, from personal services lag monies from that part of our budget into our OM budget primarily to cover two unplanned and unexpected expenses for WCAG compliance. This is the ADA compliance for all digital services that municipalities have to comply with. The original deadline was April 26 on Friday.

The Department of Justice announced that they were extending that for a year, but that was about five days five business days before the deadline. So we've been assuming that we had to meet the deadline. And we we realized that there wasn't a plan for two of the arts council websites, their main website and their art move art space moves website. For a cost of $18,800, we needed to get them into compliance. The SPD website also needed compliance help for a cost of 12,500.

SPD was able to chip in 2,000 for that, so we are looking to cover 10,500 of that. And the final $2,500 roughly is for unplanned signage for year of the neighbor and another wave of loyal to local signage, which was greatly appreciated by businesses across the city and, in particular, in Davis Square, which, was where that, project was, the spring project was hatched. We'd like to put up some new signage to get us, through spring, summer, fall. And, the total that we would we are requesting to move is 31,800.

Thank you, director. Any questions or comments from members of the committee? Councilor Link.

Hi. Yeah. Thank you, chair. Through you. So am I right in understanding that the, police website currently is not, accessible?

So there are very detailed accessibility, requirement upgrades required through this round of WCAG compliance. And, no, neither the SPD site nor the Arts Council sites were compliant. I should share that because of the seriousness of this requirement coming from the DOJ that what we did is we what is the phrase? Do you borrow from Peter to steal from Peter to pay for Paul. I don't remember the exact phrasing.

So, basically, we went ahead and paid for it with other monies in our budget that are going to cause us some real pain if we are not able to move in money to cover it. But they are both in compliance now, and I'm looking to restore my budget so that I can continue to pay for necessary software and services through to the end of the year, that I will have to put on hold. Otherwise, that would normally be renewing in the next couple of months and or taking place in the next couple of months.

Great. So just just to follow-up on that. I'm I'm it's through the chair. I'm trying to understand, like, was are the the new requirements it sounds like they were it it sounds like either they were extremely onerous because the the amount of money that it cost or that we just weren't accessible at all. And I guess and I'll just follow-up on that so then I can shut up.

And then if if that's the case, you know, how are we making sure that we're not that we're not falling into that trap again? Like, we should be I I think, especially for, like, something where the it's a, you know, public safety website. Be designing with accessibility first.

Sure. So accessibility requirements were updated according to the new requirements. So it's not that the site was completely uncompliant. It's that there were just so many things that didn't meet the new requirements. I wouldn't call them onerous, but your assumption your first assumption was correct is that there was so much to do and so much of it new to get it into compliance that, yeah, it was fairly expensive.

And, what we so WCAG is usually not updated all that frequently, so we will work to stay in compliance. One of the other things we're working on is procuring some software that will help with creating compliance on an ongoing basis that can be applied to all of our sites. And maintaining staffing on this team is also part of that. And then the long term goal to move more of our microsites into the main site will also help with that so that they are not off on their own growing out of compliance, without the same attention that the main site, gets. So, there are, this is really important to the full team.

I would argue it has been, like, our most important priority for this fiscal year, and, we are not gonna let it slide once we get past the compliance. We will continue to make sure that we stay, ahead of that.

Thank you, director. To the chair. Thank you, director. And, director, just to to clarify the terms. So WCAG, I've never known how you say that as sort of an acronym. That's the web content accessibility guidelines.

Yes.

And and as I understand it, that is, it's, you know, one of these standards, like ISO standards, where there are people who are appointed to terms and they get together and they they do work and research, and then they articulate some kind of set of rules that, that then have versions that supplant previous versions over time. Is that correct?

Yes. Absolutely. And, I'm not sure if we're pronouncing it correctly either, but that's how everyone I've ever heard say it says it. But I would note that, the DOJ itself, found that the requirements, maybe your term onerous is appropriate here. They they found their own compliance requirements so excessive that they extended the deadline by a full year.

Like I said, on Friday, they announced that. And we were not going to play with this and have been really working hard to meet it, so we've we've met it. Our our sites are now in compliance. They can start going out of compliance tomorrow if something gets posted that needs to be addressed, but we've got a team in place now working on that. And as I mentioned, software coming as well. But, yes, they get together. They decide the new requirements. This time, they reevaluated and realized that it was, too burdensome for most municipalities to meet the deadline.

Thank you. And this, this recent, approval that this committee made of, the $100,000, if I'm remembering correctly, for, an outside contractor. Is it your hope that that work will set us up to be in a a position to sort of more flexibly address issues like this in the future?

So that funding, is, intended to overhaul and or update the website. I think, we're all aware that this is a difficult budget year, and this may not be the year for a full overhaul. But that funding will help us take care of the greatest needs on the site at a minimum in terms of updating the actual functions on the site, pathways on the site that make it possible to find information easily for users. And so that is that is really for website overhaul. Getting into compliance, the key thing that's gonna help us stay in compliance is the software I mentioned as well as being fully staffed.

We've not been fully staffed for some time now as, I believe some of you are aware, and, that position is posted. And, we hope to start scheduling interviews next week.

Thank you. Are there any other questions or comments from members of the committee? Okay. Seeing none, this item is laid on the table to recommend approval at the end of the meeting. Thank you, director.

Thank you.

Okay. Next items are related to the Community Preservation Act. Item eight, ID 26Dash0518, requesting the appropriation of $400,000 from the Community Preservation Act Fund for approve improvements to the Kennedy Schoolyard. And it's my understanding that this also relates to, the bond item. That's a few items down on the agenda. Clerk, do you have a an opinion of whether it makes sense to take these two up together or just deal with that one when we come to it? I know bond is different from an appropriation even if one is the cause of the other.

I also am not familiar enough with the content to advise on that.

Okay. No

problem. What could take it up, but

I'll check then. Okay. Okay. Great. Sorry for that. Appreciate it. And I believe that we have community act manager Roberta Cameron here to speak about, this appropriation. Manager Cameron, please tell us about it.

Thank you for having me. So I will talk about all of the appropriations related to the Kennedy School at once. This item, as you mentioned, the following item requesting the transfer of 228,000 to the open space reserve and as you pointed out, related to reducing the bond appropriation. So the story is

I'm sorry to interrupt you, Cameron or manager Cameron. Clerk, why don't we take those three items up together then if if manager Cameron's gonna speak about them? And maybe I'll just read them in really quickly if that's necessary.

Mhmm.

Yes. Okay. So sorry. To confirm, we'll take up eight, nine, and 11 together.

Correct.

Great. Okay. So we will just need to read those into the record, and then we then we can proceed.

Okay. So we will also take up item nine, ID 26Dash0517, requesting approval of a transfer of $228,000 from the Community Preservation Act, undesignated fund balance to the CPA Open Space Reserve. And we'll also take up item 11, ID 26 dash 0519 requesting approval to reduce the powering authorization for the Kennedy Schoolyard renovation project from $2,000,000 to $1,600,000. Okay. Back to you, manager Cameron. Thank you.

Thank you very much. So the community preservation committee, after expending all of the funds for the, applications for funding this past year, saw that there was an opportunity to save some future revenue by applying the balance of what remained of this of the current year's revenue to the Kennedy Schoolyard project and thus reduce the amount of the bond by $400,000. This is going to save approximately $30,000 of interest payments over the life of the project and potentially make it possible to reduce the bond further next year by delaying having to, start utilizing the bond right away. So, that's why they have requested, the appropriation of $400,000 for the Kennedy Schoolyard. And of that, a portion is coming from the undesignated fund balance and from the budgeted reserve or no.

It's coming from the open space reserve. And in order to transfer it from the undesignated fund in order to spend it from the undesignated fund balance, it has to be first transferred from the undesignated fund balance to the open space reserve. So that's the reason for the transfer in item nine and then the reduction of the bond in item 11.

Thank you, manager. Members of the committee, any questions or comments about this? Well, I'll just say I appreciate the community preservation committee's attention to this. You know, we've we've discussed the Kennedy Schoolyard project and the the many benefits of that, the ways it's going to be, an especially accessible schoolyard, for the many students of the Kennedy with disabilities. And that project is also going to involve, some amount of, stormwater mitigation.

So, even though this is a a big ticket item, we're hitting we're feeding several birds with one scone as the, as the preferred saying is. And I appreciate the the CPC, finding this way to to ease that financial burden a bit. Thank you so much for explaining this one to me. Okay. So about the bond, is there any any other speaker who, might be present with the desire to speak about the bond?

I don't I don't see anybody from finance. Okay. Just wanted to double check that before we, we talk about that one. Okay. So on these three items, is there any more discussion from anybody?

Alright. So for all three of these, these items are laid on the table to recommend approval at the end of the meeting. And then we will go on to another community preservation act related item, item 10, ID 26Dash0509, requesting the approval of a time only contract extension until 05/31/2029 for the Mystic River Watershed Association For The Community Preservation Act fiscal year 2023 grant for design of the Blessing of the Bay Linear Park Improvements. Manager Cameron, could you please tell us about this extension?

Yes. So the Mystic River Watershed Association has been overseeing design of the improvements to Blessing of the Bay Linear Park since they first received a grant in FY twenty three to initiate this project. Now the CPC and other funders have also supported the implementation of that project with additional funding. And the extension of the design contract will enable Mr. Cooper Watershed Association to oversee the construction administration throughout the construction period of the project.

Thank you very much. Well, as, people will know if they follow these meetings, A time only contract extension does not involve more money. It's just saying that the existing terms, can keep going for a longer period. This is a wonderful project, so I'm excited to hear about this. Any comments or questions from members of the committee? Okay. Then seeing none, this item is laid on the table to recommend approval at the end of the meeting. Thank you very much, manager. I think you are free.

Yeah.

Okay. That brings us to item 12, ID 26 dash zero five one five, requesting authorization to borrow $8,284,000 in a bond and to appropriate the same amount for the recurring fiscal year 2026 water main rehabilitation program. And I believe we have, director of infrastructure and asset management, Rich Reisch, here to speak about this. Director Reisch, could you please tell us about this bond?

Good evening. Thank you, chair Wheeler, members of the finance committee. As the title implies, this is our annual, water main rehabilitation, project. By We, and large, are water mains are adequately sized for what we need them to do. However, they are, on average, a 100 years old, so those pipelines need rehabilitation.

This is our our annual program. To do that, we escalate the dollar value each year so that we can get to roughly the same linear footage every year. We've been doing that at least for the past seven years on a on a risk based, algorithm, knowing the the types of water main, basically, the materials that they're made out of, some fire flow tests, knowing, you know, the the kind of soil conditions that they're in. And we do move around the city doing that. In in the past, we've done Broadway in Holland.

We've done The States, Pearl, Cross. This year, we are focusing on the McGrath Corridor. This is partly to get out ahead of the anticipated grounding of McGrath, Masstot program, so that we'll we'll rehabilitate our water mains in that corridor ahead of them. We're we're really focusing here on water mains that need some rehabilitation largely from sort of the the Medford Highland Ave intersection near that pony truss, down to Washington Street, also with some tie ins to Chester And Cross. As with past programs like this, it's a it's a mix of construction types, depending upon the needs of the water main.

We're very often able to do a lot of it trenchlessly. We can dig some pits and rehabilitate the water main from the inside with cleaning and lining and replace all the the valves along the that corridor as well, which is very important for the operation of the system. We do also have some locations in this contract where that's not a viable rehabilitation method, and we actually have to do full dig and replacement of some of the pipes. So that's on tap for this year. This the design is complete. We are ready to bid, and this appropriation and bonding request will allow us to to bid that project for construction this construction season.

Thank you, director. Members of the committee, do you have any discussion or questions? I will just say an item like this is is hard for me to know how to exercise oversight because it's such an area I know so little about, but it's such a, you know, a a big ticket cost. It's helpful to know this is a recurring year to year big ticket cost, and I see from previous years, you know, we've been we've been doing this. We've been getting a lot out of this.

One thing I'm always curious about when we're talking about going to bid is to what degree are we confident that we're getting competitive bids where, you know, where there isn't a situation, you know, where where one or a small number of contractors effectively have a monopoly and are able to charge us more than maybe some municipalities in other states or other parts of the state might have to pay?

That's a great question. For for these types of projects, we do have a decent field of contractors that are qualified for this. For some of the bigger sewer separation projects, like, you know, the the one we just finished, Spring Hill and the one that we're anticipating bidding next year, MROS, those are bigger projects that that narrow the fields to larger contractors with that bonding capacity. But we are we are able to get some some good bidders on that as well. This this has a a wider field of contractors that can bond for this.

We've also had, frankly, some some success in attracting more contractors. There was a point in time when Summerfield was not an attractive place to work, But with the professionalization of the engineering department, having construction liaison, having professional project managers and engineers, we've built up a reputation of being good to work with. Certainly not, you know, anyone that would roll over. We keep the the contractors to task, but, you know, it's certainly a place where where contractors wanna work. We've seen a a fairly competitive bid environment, and we always index our bid responses to to our neighbors, Medford, mostly Cambridge, Boston.

And and we we get good bid prices and and good field for work like this.

Thank you. In terms of how the the sort of repayment of this bond works, is this a setup where repayment is made with funds that are designated from residents' water bills?

Correct. Yeah. The so so this, bond, will lead against the Water Enterprise. Water Enterprise is exclusively, funded by water bills. So, yes, essentially, the the the work we do here, the water bills over the next twenty years will be repaying it.

Thank you. Okay. I think that's the end of, of the questions that I was able to muster for this. Any other thoughts by members of the committee? Okay. Seeing none, this item is laid on the table to recommend approval at the end of the meeting. Thank you, director. Okay. But stick around because item 13, ID 26Dash0516, is requesting authorization to borrow $2,000,000 in a bond and to appropriate the same amount for the annual fiscal year twenty twenty six sewer system rehabilitation in McGrath Corridor. Director Rasch, could you please tell us about this bond?

Thank you, chair. So this is a a similar story, but on the, sewer side. The sewer system is a little bit more complicated in terms of rehabilitation and reconfiguration of the water system. With the sewer system, there are areas that we need to do sort of wholesale replacement to meet modern needs, you know, like the Spring Hill sewer separation and the future MROS sewer separation area. But there are areas where, you know, the the basic size and functioning of the pipe, are are adequate.

However, again, they're about a 100 years old, and are are subject to to failure. We've been proactively, after not doing it for decades, inspecting those sewer pipes with closed circuit television, identifying pipes that are at at risk of imminent failure, and and going out and repairing them proactively. Again, we use a a mix of trenchless rehabilitation when possible because it's much cheaper, or if the pipe is too far gone, full dig and replacement. We've been moving around the city, you know, doing pipeline rehabilitation for the sewer, same sort of thing. We've done the the Avenues area.

We did extensive work in Ward 2. We've done sort of Lower Broadway. We've done the sort of Tufts neighborhood as well. And, again, in anticipation of m mascots grounding in McGrath. We're getting out ahead of that and rehabilitating some pipes along that corridor.

This appropriation will be both for the for the design and construction of that. We've got the CCTV inspection records. We know what pipes we wanna do, and we'll we'll hire one of our on call engineers to put together a a bid package based on that and turn that around fairly quickly because this is this is by means of comparison. But, you know, you can tell by, you know, a fourth of the dollar value of the of the water work. This is more focused.

It's it's less focused in terms of of of location. It sort of spots all along that McGrath corridor, but it's a smaller number of pipes, linear footage of pipes that need to be rehabilitated. Sort of anticipating your your question here, this is the same story, except on the sewer enterprise. So this would be a bond repayable over twenty years, and so, sewer bills will, pay for that, debt service.

Thank you. Any members of the committee have questions or comments? Just to to clarify, director Rish, you know, you mentioned the, the work that we do elsewhere in the city on, sewer separation, to deal with these combined sewer overflows. It sounds like this work is entirely about repairing existing pipes, not introducing separated pipes. Is that right?

That that is correct. You know, it it about ten years ago, we had nearly weekly pipe collapses. And so we we entered on a on a program of inspection and and rehabilitation to prevent those sort of pipe collapses. So these are this is just keeping the system operational, and, avoiding very costly emergency repairs that are also very disruptive to the neighborhoods.

Mhmm. Okay. If there's no other questions or comments from members of the committee, this item is laid on the table to recommend approval at the end of the meeting. Thank you, director Reish.

Thanks, Mush. Have a good night.

Okay. Fire department grant and gift acceptances and transfers. Item 14, ID 26Dash0524, requesting approval to accept and expend a $48,866.25 grant with no new match required from the urban area security initiative to the fire department for the purchase of a vehicle for the fire department auxiliary. And I believe we have fire department chief Charles Breen here, to speak with.

Can you hear me, Ben?

Yes. Chief Breen, please tell us about this grant.

Thank you. Good evening, committee. This is basically these funds were initially accepted for ASHA training by the police departments. And when it came to be known that they weren't gonna be able to spend all the funds, I had been in conversation with chief Benford for a while about trying to better the equipment for the auxiliary. We, we got in touch with Uwasi to see if we could repurpose the remaining funds for the training, to purchase them a van.

And you are he's gonna give us their approval to do so. So this money is gonna go to purchase a brand new van for the auxiliary fire department. They report to me, but they also do work for the police at crime scenes and whatnot. They do, work for the DPW, emergency management. And I think if approved, this will be the first new vehicle that they've ever had in the history of the auxiliary fire department.

They they used to get in hand me downs. And recently, I had to come before you for to get them to use the ambulance. And the, you know, the the equipment is run down. It's it's usually at end of life by the time they get it. So, you know, I was thankful to chief Benford for maybe, repurposing these funds for for this purchase.

Thank you, chief Brain. And sorry. Just just one point of clarification before I go to you, councilor Scott. The conditions for this grant are from the FEMA fiscal 2023

Correct.

Agreements? Okay. Thank you very much. Councilor Scott.

You read my mind there, mister chair. I just did wanna point out that, this this is from, fiscal year twenty three USC, so the terms and conditions are not the ones that we are concerned about.

Yes. That's correct.

And but, you know, happy happy to hear the auxiliary is gonna get a a nice new van and appreciate I think this is a fine reverse purposing USC money.

I'll I'll also add it's, kismet. You might say that this item's coming after director Reish was talking about the water, repairs because as I understand it, that's one of the things that the auxiliary has been been really useful for in the past is when there's been a a water main break.

Yes. That's correct. They, they do a lot of pump outs.

Well, thank you very much. Any other questions or comments from members of the committee on this one? Okay. Seeing none, this item is laid on the table to recommend approval at the end of the meeting.

Thank you.

And the next item is also firefighter related. Item 15, ID 26Dash0523, requesting approval to accept and expend a $30,380 grant with no new match required from the Department of Fire Services to the fire department for firefighter safety equipment. Chief Breen, could you tell us about this grant?

Yes. To the committee, we have seven, new recruits that'll be coming on board just very soon. They'll be coming before the council for appointments, I believe, the next, at the next meeting to be referred to committee. And this will offset costs of purchasing the fire helmets, gloves, hoods, boots, bunker coat, and bunker pants.

Thank you so much, chief. Any questions or comments from members of the committee? I'll say the one thing that comes to mind is I know that in the past, there have been, chemicals that have been judged to be unsafe in some firefighter gear. My guess is that now they're making it without those things. But, you know, I I assume that's something that's on your radar as a a question to be asking about the the gear that we're buying, chief.

Absolutely. It's on my my radar. It's on the union's radar. This this gear does contain some PFAS, but, we're gonna be there's just one manufacturer out there right now that's come out with PFAS feed gear, and I'm sort of and I've talked to the union president about it. We're sort of in a holding pattern to see how this stuff is gonna hold up.

And there's also movement afoot by the state to to to open up some funds for departments to replace gear. So it's my hope to, you know, do a little more investigation on this on this new PFAS free gear to make sure it's gonna, you know, live up to what they say it's gonna live up. What we do what we don't I what I don't wanna do is jump into something and it falls apart in, two years. So we're definitely we're definitely this is not like we're not like Quincy. Quincy's been in the news recently.

They this gear was not the gear that Quincy had. It was highly contaminated with PFAS. This has this does have some PFAS in in it, and we are aware of it. And, you know, we we are we are looking into at some point, we'll definitely you know, they they all the manufacturers are gonna have to go completely PFAS free. And, I'm just sort of in a holding pattern to see what our manufacturer and what the other manufacturers are gonna do before jumping in with one particular manufacturer. I sort of wanna play the market and see what's out there, and, I'll work with the union, you know, to to to make sure that, we buy the right key for everyone.

Thank you. I appreciate you speaking to those concerns, and, you know, it it's something that it's it's reassuring to hear that you're in communication with the union about that. You know, I I would I would love in the process of this just to somehow hear from the union as well, you know, their confirmation that that this is a direction that they feel like makes sense.

Okay.

Members of the committee, any other questions or comments? K. Thank you. If Thank you. No more discussion, then this item is laid on the table to recommend approval at the end of the meeting. And thank you, Keith. Thanks. Okay. Police department grant and gift acceptances and transfers. Item 16, ID26Dash0511. Requesting approval of a transfer of $35,000 from the police department salaries account to the police department animal control salaries account for an expected deficit. And I believe we have, Summerville Police Department director of finance and administration, Emily Wisdom, here to speak about this. Director Wisdom.

Thank you so much, Cher. So I we are asking to move some of our lag money from the salaries account to, the animal control salaries account as we have had to so, as you know that the the animal control department is only two members. And one of those members had to go out on an extended leave, which caused extensive overtime, that has not been previously budgeted for or has happened in this, as far as I know, has happened with their, personnel services accounts in the past. So, we usually keep a relatively small amount of overtime and a very tight salary amount in the personnel services line to cover just those two positions and their typically anticipated amount of overtime. However, we did have to borrow from the personnel services or, the salaries line to cover the overtime that was caused by the member picking up extra shifts while the other person was out on the extended leave.

So that is why we are asking to transfer this money.

Thank you, director. Members of the committee, does anyone have questions or comments about this? I'm just curious, director Wisdom. I I remember, the the second, police canine, that was given to, Summerville at the end of last year is sort of is this tricky financial situation that we're in partially because of taking on this this second k nine? Or

Absolutely not. Okay. So that that is completely covered by the, police department OM budget. Any expenses around fluff or missy are being paid for from that account. The the police department technically has three separate personnel and OM lines for the three departments. We have per we have police, we have animal control, and we have the e nine 11. So this is only for the animal control. That's two members. They make up a team that that handle the animal control matters in Summerville, and one of the two was out on leave, personal leave. And so we, basically, the other one picked up shifts of overtime that depleted our account.

Thank you. I appreciate your indulging, my ignorance. There's so much that I don't know. It are the kind of animal control situations we're talking about here, like raccoons?

Anything where a animal control person who was the the person that was off shift, they basically work a rotating schedule so that that at all times, one of them is kind of on shift or available. And so that could be any call that came into the police department that would have required someone to come out and attend to any animal. It could be, a lost dog. It could have been a raccoon. It could have been any, you know, wildlife of any sort.

So, it it happened for many reasons. Also, there, the matter of it was also that, while the second member was out, there were still animals that had to be cared for in the evenings or in the mornings depending on what shift that person was working. And so they picked up extra shifts to to continue animal care while that person was on leave.

Thanks. And I'm sorry. Pardon. All my questions on this. What sorts of animals needed ongoing care?

So my understanding is typically, like dogs and cats that are rescued and they're trying they haven't been able to foster yet. If they come in one, like, one evening, they provide the care until they can find a suitable foster or an adopted home for those animals to go to.

Thank you. I, you know, I I very much, of course, appreciate the the work of caring for these animals and and all the different the the wide variety of situations that, some rural police officers respond to. I can't help but wonder, and maybe this is a broader conversation or conversation for another time, if maybe our city could save a little bit, yeah, over time in situations like this in calling in, the SPCA or or other organizations, that, that can can take animals and, either are operating on a volunteer basis or just otherwise not not costing us time and a half. And, chief Benford, councilor Scott, I'll come to you.

To this point, sir.

To this point. Okay. Councilor Scott, please.

The animal control officers are separate from Summerville Police Department. There are two of them. They're lovely people. I recommend you have a conversation with them. But they absolutely work with Cambridge Alley Cats and other organizations here. So I assure you, they're not they're not the problem in our overtime budget.

Thank you. I appreciate that clarification. Chief Benford.

No. Thank you very much. I think the council, captured it appropriately. I would just add that, you know, anytime we talk about the disposition of work, we do have labor implications with our unions and so forth. That there is a broader conversation we had there, but to the councilors comments, they do work with our partners across jurisdictions to try and minimize those expenses. But regrettably, we do have costs that we have to cover.

Thank you. I appreciate that clarification. And, pardon my stumbling into this new matter. There's there's a lot that I don't know, and I appreciate everyone's educating me. On this item, do any other counselors have questions or comments? Okay. Seeing none, this item is laid on the table to recommend approval at the end of the meeting. That brings us to item 17, ID twenty six dash zero five one zero, requesting approval of a transfer of $325,000 from the police department salaries account to the police department medical and dental services account for medical procedures for current and retired employees injured in the line of duty. Director Wisdom, could you please tell us about this transfer?

Of course. So, one of the things that the police and fire both, are required to do under, I believe, state law is, one eleven f injury. We're required to take care of, the injured employees' medical bills that are associated with line of, line of duty injuries. So we have of course, there are current people that are, on, that fall into this category of one eleven f, but there are also retirees who have been retired due to medical needs, that are under one eleven f also. This year, there were many, many procedures, outside of the normal amount of procedures that are typically, done in a year that usually fit within our budget.

I'm just trying to make sure that I I don't I stay HIPAA compliant and don't share any personal information. So I'm not trying to be purposely vague, but I don't want to, single anyone out or point any medical history out or anything like that. So I'm I'm just trying to be careful with my wording there.

Understood.

So,

typically, like, in the past few years, we've maintained a a typical average. We that's how much we typically ask for at the beginning of the year based on what we've spent last year. However, as we all know, medical bills are sometimes unpredictable. And when there's a really, really big issue, that comes from an injury of someone who is required to be paid for those, medical bills, out of our funds, we are required to cover them. So, this is a these these medical procedures have been approved by the city's, medical panel. So we all we verified that they're they're Appropriate? Appropriate. Yes. That's important.

Part of my answer.

No worries.

No. I appreciate that. They're appropriate. They're necessary to pay. This the amount of the medical interventions are a high dollar amount, and so we are requesting from our lag money to be able to take that money to pay for the medical rest of these medical procedures, that we've had come in.

Thank you. Members of the committee, does anyone have comments or questions about this item? Councilor Hart?

Thank you, chair Wheeler. And through you, director Wisdom, Could you just explain more to help me understand the lag money and why why there's this amount that's not needed for other, things in the salaries account?

Of course. I would be happy to. So, at the beginning of the year, we were budgeted for a certain number of positions. And throughout the year, we've had, at least two retirements as well as, we've had some typical people, leave to go to other places, attrition, I guess, would say, retirement and attrition, as well as some, people who've been promoted due to that. So that leaves us, throughout the year, we've kind of had a rolling rolling vacancies that have been filled and then have emptied have been then, available again.

So through that, we basically, we have cost savings from the retiree salaries for the year. We have re from the from the attrition while we're filling those spots and promoting within and then, as well as while we're recruiting new recruits to go to the academy, that does leave money in that personnel line that we are choosing to utilize to pay for to request to pay for these medical bills.

Thank you. Of course.

Thank you, director. Any other questions or comments from members of the committee? Okay. Seeing none, this item is laid on the table to recommend approval at the end of the meeting.

And that

brings oh, thank you. And that brings us to item 18, ID 26Dash0378, requesting approval to accept and expend a $231,635 grant with no new match required from the Massachusetts Executive Office of Public Safety and Security to the police department for a body worn camera program. And, I would like us to take that up together with item 19, ID 26Dash0636. Alexandra Thorne and Daniel Wong submitting comments regarding item 26Dash0378 grant for body worn camera program, since those comments, are directly, on this item. So we have director Wisdom and, chief Benford.

I didn't introduce you before. We have police chief Shanann Benford with us as well. So director Wisdom and chief Benford, would you please tell us about this grant?

Sure, mister chair. Thank you so much, for, for your comments, and, for the committee this evening. I'm gonna provide a high level overview of the grant in some context to help guide our conversation. I wanna obviously acknowledge the committee as well as my city colleagues, my SPD colleagues, our union partners, the mayor's office, as well as our community partners. The body worn camera program was settled as part of a prior year collective bargaining agreement, with our respective, unions.

As you, well know, we are very, opening opening open and welcoming, community. So body worn cameras, is a tool and a resource that really helps us speak to our commitment around accountability, trust building, and transparency. Over the years, particularly in the last six to seven years, body worn cameras have become, a best practice, in policing. Certainly, it was part of the discussion that we've had around commitments, to the future around, relationship building and trust building with our community, during our accreditation process. Body worn cameras also help, in the twenty first century, around validating, the overwhelmingly positive, interactions that we have, with our community members.

Back in 2020, the state published a report around body worn cameras and subsequently afforded state funding to help municipalities support the implementation of body worn camera programs. The state has funded in the neighborhood of 144 local police departments across the state in support of standing up a body worn camera program. Many communities that surround Summerville as well as the Metro Boston area to include Boston, Medford, Cambridge, and, Summerville Housing Authority police officers all have body worn camera programs. The Boston Police Department, is in the midst of a major expansion, in their body worn camera program to include not not only uniform personnel, but plainclothes personnel as well. Summerville, through its robust, community process, also, you know, produce reports, by way of the public safety for all reports as well as the staffing study that, both spoke to, the importance of our body worn cameras and helping us particularly with accountability and trust building, with the community.

I'd also like to report to, reference the 2015 President's Commission on twenty first Century Policing. There were six pillars that were defined to help promote and support and guide and advise departments in producing quality policing programs in the twenty first century. And two of those pillars spoke to two key areas, building trust and legitimacy, and also pillar three, using technology to help do that again in the twenty first century. In 2023, that report was reformed through a renewed call to action with a focused on whole of government and whole of community approaches to transformational policing. And in there it talks about due process and again, encouraging transparency, accountability, and preventing and highlighting any images and experiences of police misconduct.

As we look at the body worn camera program, the mayor has designated this a priority for implementation on the backs of many different priorities that I've outlined earlier, particularly with the PSFA reports as well as the staffing study reports. I would also like to point to what we've experienced as a community quite frankly and a country with the overwhelmingly aggressive tactics by ICE and Homeland Security with regards to immigration enforcement. And I just point to legislative and government colleagues and peers in Washington that are calling for body worn cameras as a key component of reforms that they're looking for moving forward as part of funding efforts for Homeland Security, ICE and other programs. So, Mr. Chair, with that said, I'd like to pause there.

And again, acknowledge my city colleagues that are on with us that join in this conversation to help respond to questions and comments that may come out of this conversation.

Thank you. Thank you, chief. Chief, were you referring to anybody else who is in attendance who might also want to speak about this item or just speak were you speaking sort of more generally?

Thank you very much. I think more generally, but I would acknowledge, I am I can't see, everyone, in the galley, but I would acknowledge our partners are from, IGA, that are here, as well.

Thank you. Members of the committee, does anyone have questions and comments?

Chair Wheeler, if I could just quickly hop in.

Please.

Somewhat of a semantics thing, but I would suggest we don't take these up together, as they were the first one was sent for recommendation and the second was sent for discussion.

I see.

And the the narrative of this first item won't necessarily tie in with the second because the second, would just mark were complete. So if you're open to that, I suggest we take them up separately.

Thank you. I appreciate that. We can take them up separately.

Thank you.

I will just note on that on that point to briefly summarize what the the public comments say because it it relates to some of the sort of logistical questions before us. Those public comments, suggest that we wait, to make a decision about this grant until the legislative matters committee can make a decision about the surveillance technology impact report, item relating to body worn cameras. That's before that committee. Just logistically, I want to point out to everyone that there's another finance committee meeting, on May 12 before the May 14 city council meeting. That May 14 city council meeting will be the first city council meeting after the next legislative matters meeting.

I have no predictions about what any other committee is going to do, but were the legislative matters committee to, to discharge one way or another that item, and have it be taken up in that city council meeting, it it could make sense whether we discharge this item in one way or another today, and it, is in control of the the city council again, or we keep this item in committee and discharge it one way or another at the next finance committee meeting. I'm just saying we have we have this meeting and another finance committee meeting before that surveillance technology impact report, could be back in the city council's hands at the first opportunity. Just purely logistics. And thank you for allowing me that. Okay.

Members of the committee. I see councilor Scott.

Thank you, mister chair. I just, procedurally, if you would like to kick this can down the road, we can kick this can down the road. If you'd like to discuss it tonight, I'm absolutely willing to

I I I would like to discuss this tonight.

Okay. Great. Did you want to lead off, or, would you like me to

start? I was I was going to, to cede the the lead off role to any members of the committee who would like to begin with questions or comments.

Alright. Well, I'm I'm happy to to yield to any colleagues that would like to go first here. Alright. Seeing none, I'd just like to oh, some oh. Oh. Speaking from the city.

I'm going to ask, Yasmin Erdasi, liaison, Please.

Thank you, mister chair. I just wanted to flag for the record that we did submit a memo with some of the figures for this item, so just, wanted to put that out there for everyone. Thank

you. Yes. I appreciate that. And, Liazem Erdasi oh, okay. Great. I was wanted to make sure I was telling anybody listening and interested where they could find those. Are are those attached to I I see. They're attached to the entire committee meeting. For anyone who doesn't know about this, this is this additional location where attachments can sometimes be found. If you go to the calendar in Legistar and you click on meeting details and you get the list of all the agenda items, there can be attachments that are attached to the meeting itself, and that is the case here.

One of these, items, I believe the third one, or is it o three seven eight? Yes. It is the the first one. Sorry. Has a, financial, estimates of the ongoing cost. The cost in the first and second year and then year three and beyond. Thank you,

Thank you, mister chair.

Please, councilor Scott.

Alright. I appreciate it. I'm glad that you called attention to that memo because I also wanted to call attention to that memo. I'm gonna just start right there with what the, cost of of accepting this grant. This is a grant to start off the city and commit it to a course where we will be spending, an annual let's call it a $100,000, 95,833, that there will also be there is also already negotiated in the police contract that if any body worn cameras are implemented, that there is an automatic 2% raise for every member of the police department.

So that's, an additional, $215,000 estimated for, this, according to this minimum. I haven't gone back and double checked that number to see if it lines up with, what we what we say we're we're spending in salaries, but I'll take the take the memo at its word right now. And then, also, it notes that there are extra cost to administering the program. A full time civilian employee, presumably to just manage the program, manage the data, and then other minor costs for additional batteries and replacements and things like that. So when you put all that together, conservatively, right, that's 450,000 a year that the city will be on the hook for, not notwithstanding any increases to costs.

You know, we we know the cost of cost of everything doesn't go up over time. Right? So I I look at this as an extraordinary, increase, given that our our police budget is, currently $21,000,000 a year. That's a that's a pretty big increase, in our in our police budget. I also you know, I have concerns from a policy standpoint, though I understand that, we're gonna be taking that up in legislative matters in about a week.

But I I have particular concerns about, accepting this just procedurally, you know, moving forward tonight procedurally on this, in the absence of approval from legislative matters of a technology specific use policy. Our, city Of Summerville ordinances around, surveillance technology do specifically call out that the city can seek approval, or can seek but not accept funds without approval from the city council, and that, details regarding the nature of the surveillance technology as well as the surveillance technology impact report for that, have to be, accepted. So I not to get too specific in the timing, because I think the timing of this could be a very easily settleable thing, if we come to the conclusion that, that I'm inclined towards here. But, yeah, it is it is enormous cost for, let's say, dubious gain. When I look at the requests that were made by Justice Somerville back in 2020, their requests were for civilian oversight and for a number of other reforms in the police department, but in no way were body cameras requested.

When weighing the potential benefits of this immense surveillance increase in the city, versus what's been called for, what's been asked for, from our communities most impacted. And what's been called for in, the numerous studies that we've had over the years, I don't see the benefit to signing up for an extra half million dollars a year, that will increase over time. I'd also point out that, as it stands, we don't have any, guarantee that even if we did have a even if we did have a civilian oversight committee that was created, passed, established overnight here, we have no guarantee that they'd have access to that camera footage. So I I have a great many concerns here. I don't think I need to get into the full dissertation of them tonight.

Keeping it strictly to the financial aspect of this, it's a half million dollars a year that we're accepting this money. Hook puts us on the hook for an extra half million dollars a year expenditures, and, I, for one, am not inclined to do that. So I appreciate your forbearance, mister chair. I'm happy to hear the discussion in my comments.

Thank you, counselor. Counselor Link.

Thank you, chair. I just I guess I have to, echo a lot of what the good counselor from ward two just said. And, you know, it's not lost on me that that we're hot off of a a meme where we're talking about, like, what do we have to do to tighten the belt and are our schools gonna need to, you know, do more with less. And, you know, while this while the full cost won't come for this current budget year, you know, with there should there will be a cost. And and then, you know, there's there's no I don't think we have any reason to anticipate a windfall in subsequent years where we're going to find ourselves in a different position.

And I think as my colleague said, you know, there's there's a a lot of reasons to have reservations about about this. But looking at it strictly from a financial standpoint, it it seems it would it it doesn't feel appropriate to me, to to be, spending this money, in this way.

Thank you, counselor. Counselor Strezo.

Thank you, mister chair. Well, I know that some of my colleagues will will vote against this no matter what because of the way they feel about things, and I respect that. And I'm always open to the conversation as well. I've been listening to these conversations since, of course, now I'm in my fourth term, for a while now, and I always appreciate learning something new. But to point out that the NAACP recommendations include, and I've asked and checked every single time, include the recommendation for body worn cameras and also, of course, the civilian oversight committee.

And here in Somerville, for some of our counselors who are new and haven't been following this conversation for the many years that this has been in conversation, some of that, we had our police over I'm sorry, our reimagining police civilian public task force. And one of the members, Ben Struhl, is I've been speaking with him as well. And mister chair, if it's possible, I'd be interested in sponsoring him to speak tonight now.

Yes. I'm open to that.

Great. He's in the audience.

I see him in attendance. Clerk, is it possible to, promote him to being able to speak?

Thank you, mister chair.

Just to confirm, this is Ben that we would like to sponsor?

Yes. Ben Struel.

K. Ben, you should be able to speak now.

Thank you, mister chair, and thank you, counselors. I appreciate the opportunity to speak. I will give the briefest possible introduction. I am the executive director of a research center at the University of Pennsylvania, and we have directly studied, the adoption of body worn cameras in the city of Boston. Also, as part of our research center, we have, my respected colleague, Cynthia Lum, a distinguished university professor at, George Mason University, who has done a systematic review of every single study of body worn cameras, ever undertaken.

And, I'd like to particularly highlight, some of the research of my colleague Morgan C. Williams. He's a professor, at, Barnard College at Columbia, and his research interest and specialty is the economics of crime and incarceration policy with an emphasis on racial inequality. The most consistent findings we have on the research around body worn cameras is that they reduce citizen complaints about the police. And I think there's a lot of variation in how these different, programs are implemented, with some being, what you would, clearly see as being the worst possible implementation of the idea that officers are equipped with cameras.

Camera footage is, taken, stored in a vault, and no one ever gets to see the camera footage or interact with it in any way, which, as you might imagine, would not create, any possible benefit. But looking at, the wide range of studies of these different types of programs, you can see this consistent finding that, body worn cameras reduce citizen complaints about the police. And, in Boston, we found that body worn cameras reduced officer use of force. My colleague, Morgan Williams at Barnard, did a cost benefit analysis of body worn cameras, and, this is a publicly available information, that I'd be happy to share. And he found that body worn cameras, create about $5 in benefit for every $1 of cost spent upon them, and that about a quarter of those budgets might accrue directly to the city budget.

So, you know, a quarter of 5, right, being, you know, $1.25 for every dollar goes to the city budget. Now, this is an average of what he found in different results of studying this. And, the benefit to Summerville financially could be lower if Somerville does not have a lot of complaints against the police. But, this is what the, large body of research says. You know, we do, I think, have a pretty good idea of the fact that these generate benefits in many cases.

And, the state of Massachusetts has put together a very thoughtful task force report, which is also publicly available on what sort of policies should accompany body worn cameras. And you can also look to some of our our neighboring jurisdictions like Cambridge for what kind of policies they're implementing. I my understanding is Somerville is interested in adopting similar policies for this. I guess my final, thing I would mention is that this is one area where, there is, actually relatively very little concern for for outside groups to gain access to surveillance data. We have seen increasingly across the country in places we've worked, federal government entities gaining access to government databases in all sorts of areas, that they had never had access to before, often contributing the law.

So this is a very, good general concern, but, the amount of difficulty it would take for, such agencies to access, and peruse this type of footage would be, prohibitively difficult. So I think, those basic elements of the research are really valuable. Maybe I'll I'll just sort of close and say, having observed, the reactions in Cambridge after the, shooting of Syed Faisal in that city, that shooting really had a a negative impact on the community that reverberated for many months in part because there was some real uncertainty about what happened in that incident, which really, really divided the community afterwards and led to, Cambridge deciding to adopt, its own body worn camera program. I think the benefits of having public transparency on elements like this really cannot be always stated economically. So thank you very much.

I really appreciate it, and I'd be happy to take any questions if there were any.

Mister chair, I just really quick forgot to mention his credentials for the the minutes. Mister Stroll is executive director of the Crime and Justice Policy Lab at the University of penn Pennsylvania. He launched the executive director of Center of Crime and Community Resilience at Northeastern University, leading projects in seven US cities and 10 countries. Of course, a Somerville resident, very proud to say. Has worked at MIT's Poverty Action Lab and worked for the mayor of Boston, Boston Public Schools, Center for American Progress, including and as a data analyst for senator and then president Barack Obama, so he may know a few things about what he's talking about.

But I'm very, interested in hearing what our colleagues have to say as this continue conversation continues. Thank you.

Thank you, councilor Strazo, and thank you, mister Stroule. And I'll also mention another credential, chair, I believe chair of, Summerville's Public Safety for All task force, as, I think chief Benford, was referring, earlier. Counselor Scott.

That that was the clarification I was looking for was, his role in the Public Safety For All task force. I didn't, didn't see him on the on the task force page, so, appreciate it.

Other members of the committee? I I could speak. This is a big topic. It's hard to know where to begin, and there's a lot of different perspectives. I've spoken to to a number of different people about this.

I I really I really do take to heart some of the benefits that that, mister Stroule was describing. And, you know, the the way that camera footage can provide a shared, a shared grounding of, of understanding of what happened in a given interaction, in a way that could help move understandings and and perspectives, towards each other as opposed to to how they, too often separate out between police officers, members of the public, other people observing. One thing that I want to share that I I haven't heard mentioned in this conversation is that there are a number of defense, public defenders and defense attorneys who also describe, appreciating body worn cameras for the way they provide an additional set of facts, beyond what's often just one person saying he said, she said, in many court cases. And, that at least anecdotally, there's a sense among many public defenders that the body worn camera footage, reduces both the, the false positives and false negatives. It it helps make sure that people who who are being violent, there's more evidence demonstrating that, and people who may have been wrongfully accused or the victim of a misunderstanding, to have context to to clear their name.

That's something that that matters to me immensely. It in reading the Public Safety for All task force, report and, and other reports about best practices, I do see a lot of discussion of having having patterns of professional review within police departments and, and involving both police officers and other groups. In the context of Summerville, those other groups could include civilian oversight bodies yet to be created and could include, the core, group that's part of the police department now. When I'm thinking about the version of body worn camera implementation that I would feel most confident in, it involves, really clear practices of review, both internally and with other bodies, not so much in a spirit of finding misbehavior, but of, professional development. And there's a pattern in many industries.

I've come from education, I'm the most familiar with that of, communities of practice where people who are already working professionally and doing a good job are able to to develop their, their expertise through reviewing what what other practitioners, are doing through reviewing, you know, even what people who may have observed them teaching, have to report. So those are pieces that, would make me feel more confident that if we're talking about taking on this pretty large recurring spending commitment that we'd really be, investing in in our staff expertise, in the long term. It's tricky, the timing of our talking about this right now, and there's a sense, I think, among some in the public that the conversation is rushed. Part of that is just that there is this grant before us. I think something I've gathered from a few of my colleagues' comments is, if you look at the essentially, councilor Scott said conservatively $450,000.

My math put it at $430,000, but, we're talking about the similar similar size, dollar dollar item either way. If we're talking about that as an ongoing cost, and here, I I'm adding up this $117,000 full time employee, the additional, SPEAR cameras item, the salary bump, and this, this cost to the city. And and and apologies if I'm double counting some aspect, in this 95,800 recurring cost. I'm not sure if that includes any of these other items. But in in the light of that, I think the, this $230,000 grant as much as I never want to to treat $230,000 as though it doesn't matter.

It's it's something that, that quickly gets dwarfed by the, by the recurring, cost. You know, a a few years in and that $230,000 becomes 10% of of the total. So I feel like the question before us really is, is this cost worth it? And, and I think that's a very difficult question. I take counselor Scott's point that, we're talking about something, oh, here, my math is gonna be bad, but about one fortieth.

So, two and a half a two and a half percent, annual bump in, the overall police budget. That's something that I might be interested in more if we were talking about, more staffing, for patrol officers, for example. It seems to me like the the value that we'll get from this from this much cost, it still it still feels pretty speculative to me. And I do appreciate that, you know, that in these other localities, there there has been a decrease in, in civilian complaints against police. That certainly is a sign that that we could expect, some some benefit.

And I don't mean to be dismissive of the benefit. But given that this is something that we could come back to if we feel the stars are aligning and we feel the conditions are aligning, we could come back to it next year. We can come back to it the year after. I don't mean to kick the can, down the road that way, but, as counselor Link said as well, in this time of of tight budget, it makes it hard for me to to feel supportive in my in my sort of final judgment. But it's it's a tough one.

I think there's a lot a lot of good to be said about cameras. Thank you for all listening to me ramble a bit. Chief Benford.

Thank you very much for your comments, counselor. I greatly appreciate it. I also want to matter expertise. I certainly am not a subject matter expert, in this space. You know, when he talked about, investment, right, we can't minimize that it is an investment, in this technology to bring about the reward of transparency and accountability that that that we're looking for.

There's a debate certainly in the conversation to be had about those numbers, but there is a cost associated for which, I think we all acknowledge. Right. It will it will only be one adverse experience that one of our community members experiences, in a worst case scenario, that will prove its value. I will certainly, as I always do acknowledge everyone's life experience. I only wish that body worn cameras existed when the police officer told me that he was gonna kill me.

And I had to live my life for several years and then subsequently ended up working with the same individual as a colleague. I think the benefits to the community, there was no doubt bring about a level of accountability and certainly comfort that I hope would come with the community by having these cameras. So I, you know, I just wanna acknowledge that that that there is a value there is a cost, but the immense value around trust building and transparency with our community also has a value that's attached to it as well. And I want to acknowledge that. And I also, counselor, as you mentioned, you also talked about the grant and there are some timeliness factors that that's associated with the grant.

We were very fortunate as a community. My understanding is that they were, this is the last year of funding, being offered by the state, to support programs such as this. And, there were 80 plus departments, I believe, that applied, and only 30, and we were, 30 of them received funding. We were very fortunate to receive one of the largest rewards. So I do hope, and implore that this committee as well as the full body, continues to take this up favorably, as I do think that it will be a significant value add as we talk about that trust and relationship building, with our community.

Thank you, chief.

And just lastly, you mentioned, my apologies. You mentioned, professional development. Absolutely. You know, we're all bound by in service, mandatory in service training hours annually. We're always looking for creative ways to use experiences, not only of our own department members and community, but also of those from other parts of the country that can help inform how we can best service our community.

So those are things that we very much are open to. It is something that is also included in our welcoming ordinance, but we also embed training into our annual training to make sure that we're staying abreast and fully cognizant of the value set for our community in our training annually. So that is something, counsel, that is important for us. And we'd certainly use you know, look to use appropriate tools from this technology to help inform better policing and better use of the of the tools and resources that we have.

Thank you, chief. Councilor Hart?

Thank you, chair Wheeler. Also, I wanna appreciate you, chief Binford, for your comments just now and and everyone who's spoken. And chair chair Wheeler, I think you articulated very well a lot of my concerns and hesitations around the commitment to the large expenditure. And one other thing so having having reviewed the public safety for all, I know, you know, recommendations, and I know that so many people in our community have been doing work on this for so many years. And so I don't I definitely don't want to dismiss the potential value and benefit lightly at all.

But

I

do feel that I would be more comfortable making the commitment with some more information, with some more knowledge of what the policies were going to be that guided its use. So I just wanted to put that out there in terms of the timeline of making the the decision.

Thank you, counselor. Any other members of the committee have thoughts or questions? I'm seeing a hand from mister Struhl. I would sponsor sorry. I'm seeing a hand also from councilor Scott. Councilor Scott?

Mister chair, I just have some conclusions and emotions. So if you'd like to hear from more members of the public before that, that sounds like a good idea.

Okay. Thank you. I'd like to sponsor mister Schirle to speak.

I appreciate that, mister chair, and I can see, you know, none of these are easy, you know, fiscal discussions when when thinking about things. I sort of wonder for the committee's consideration whether there is any data about the ongoing cost of citizen complaints. As the chief mentioned, this might be a little bit difficult to fully think through because, in my experience, you know, one well founded, citizen complaint can be incredibly costly to, the city, but those are, less common. So perhaps that could help, the committee consider, you know, more of the, costs and benefits of adopting this type of policy.

Thank you. Yeah. I appreciate that. I do think more information is useful. And another piece of context here, it is a matter of public record that, in our last council session, we went into executive session specifically to talk about collective bargaining with the two police unions.

That's not new information. I I am curious, to make sure that we are allowing ourselves reasonable time so that any information that's relevant, is something that we can be taking into account, at the time that we make the the decisions on on this grant and any other matter relating to it, police body worn cameras. Liason Radasi. Pardon me, councilor Scott.

Thank you, mister chair. Sorry. I just wanted to add. I know I've spoken to you about this offline, but we're happy to let this stay in committee and wait until May 12 so that the conversation in legislative matters committee can happen and also for further discussion at Thursday's council meeting and executive session to provide additional information as well. So just wanted to let you know and put that on the record.

Thank you, liaison. Counselor Scott.

Thank you, mister chair. I I first of all, I find it shocking, that the argument is made that, there's so much misconduct that having cameras will reduce our cost as a city. I I would hope that, Summerville Police Department is, better managed and behaved. Certainly, that's what we've always been told. That said, I do want to, point out that, again, we are talking about budget cuts.

We're talking about asking, departments, up and down the city to, sharpen their pencil. I believe in our finance committee meeting, every department is being asked to look for 5% in their, you know, markers, dry erase markers, and colored pencils budgets, and that difficult choices might be had made on the school budget. This is, as I said at the time, I think, a time where we really need to be reevaluating, our priorities. This is, acceptance of a grant in advance of, all the determinations of policy around the use of that footage, in advance of, any establishment of a civilian oversight commission, and, quite frankly, rushed in order to, recoup a value that is less than the transfer we just approved from lag money, just unpaid salaries that are just sitting there, to cover medical expenses. It is putting the city on the hook for a half million dollars, 450,000, my apologies, annually, for basically the benefit of sparing ourselves a startup cost of a program.

And so those startup costs are a $180,000. 181, I believe, from the minimum. I just I don't see any feasible way where that's a justifiable trade off to me to rush the process to accept, you know, that little start up cost when you look at the ongoing cost for the the city moving forward. So I'd be inclined to move, to, recommend against approval of this item, if you feel like a motion is in order at the time.

Thank you, counselor. I was going to see what counselor Link had to say. But, counselor Link, I saw your hand disappear. You sure?

Yeah. Sure. Chime in.

I I

I think I think the the good counselor from Ward 2 hit most of of what I'd say. I I guess I would just add that, you know, if body worn cameras aren't going if there's a you know, we talked about, oh, we could quickly see that a complaint costs more than this program, but a body worn camera does not guarantee that it it doesn't remove a complaint. But, you know, it could decrease the number of complaints, but it doesn't necessarily mean that we're still not gonna also get hit with a large complaint. So the it's a bit speculative, where we know for a fact that we're gonna be looking at close to half $1,000,000, each year. So, you know, I I've gotta look at in my mind, I have I have to look at what clear costs we're gonna have for the city, what clear benefits.

It doesn't seem to me at this time, that any of the the proposed, kind of, ideas of a of a policy are are going to confer that benefit to the city. Whereas taking that money from the city's budget is gonna clearly harm other departments. And I'm I'm not comfortable with that. So I I would also move to yeah. Can can get this.

Mister chair?

Councilor Strezzo?

So, to clarify, are are the are my colleagues moving for a vote to where they can vote for or against it?

Mister chair, that is the motion that I'm making.

Yeah. That I didn't I didn't hear that. I heard that you were voting or you were moving for a you against your recommendation, and that's what that is not a motion. So you so from what I hear, that you are proposing a motion then.

Mister chair I'm sorry.

Counsel Link was saying that. And, mister chair, to you through you.

Thank you. Councilor Scott.

Mister chair, through you, The item is referred to us for recommendation. The action of this committee is to supply a recommendation to the city council. Making that recommendation to the city council takes the form of a motion to, in favor of or, against recommendation of the item. So I'm moving affirmatively to, recommend against approval of this item.

Mister chair

Thank you, councilor Scott. Mister chair Councilor Strazel.

Yes. I I no need to mansplain this. I believe that we have a roll call vote to make or would we should have a roll call vote to make on that. And if I may get my word on in on this, I think that from the research I've done on this item, because I have not really weighed in, I think this is good for transparency, body worn cams, and I think we owe that to our constituents. And, yeah, it's it's I know that some of my colleagues here tonight have their opinions, and I always learn something new from them, and I respect their opinions as I hope that they will respect mine.

But I want to make sure that our community feels safe and that they feel supported. And I think that the transparency on this is is is a a step forward. Body Cam's transparency on this is is important step as everything I've seen in the research has concluded. And so so as it is, but yeah. Then then I I if if a if a move for a vote has not been done, then I will make a motion to make a move for a vote. Yay or nay.

Thank you. And on the motion, I just wanted to share procedurally, and partly, I'm just checking my own understanding

Oh, please.

That in terms of that possible alignment with the the stir coming back from legislative matters, if that is indeed what happens, on, at the council meeting for May 14. If we discharge this item in this meeting, it is possible at the next council meeting on Thursday, as well to to lay the item on the table to to await a a vote together with, whatever the discharge status of the STIRR is. I I want to I wanna appreciate that, we are all getting information. We've gotten information in the last few weeks, and, I anticipate that there may be some more. I'm appreciating counselor Hart's point about, wanting wanting some more information and and being curious about some of those answers.

I also take, counselor Scott's point that, it is our responsibility to, to decide on approval, And, I am also inclined to have us take a roll call vote tonight. Lias and Rodaciano, had spoken about, you know, about the possibility of keeping this in committee. Do do you have any thoughts before we move ahead?

You're the chair. Thank you. Yes. The administration's preference would be for this to either remain in committee or be discharged without a recommendation and laid on the table on Thursday at the council meeting so that the conversation and executive session on Thursday can occur, and we can share updates then. And also for the conversation and ledge matters related to the STIRR can occur so that all those items will be back before the council for consideration as a package in the right order on, May 14 at the city council meeting.

Okay. Thank you. I I certainly don't want to to influence the, you know, discussions in another committee. But the, the recommendation of this committee is not the final recommendation of the council. Isn't it essentially equivalent if this item were to be laid on the table on Thursday?

Mister chair, is that a question to me procedurally?

It's a question I intended for liaison Rodessi procedurally, but I'd be happy to hear your answer, vice chair.

Procedurally, this is, any recommendation made by this committee is then the recommendation that is before the council. The council can, move to accept that recommendation or reject that recommendation. If, they do not wish to act on that recommendation at the next meeting, the item can be laid on the table. And, certainly, as soon as it is out of committee, it is up for discussion before the entire council. So, a vote tonight procedurally simply to, pass it along with that recommendation does not preclude any change of action in the future as I'm sure my colleagues are aware, having overturned the recommendation of the committee on multiple occasions in the past at the risk of mansplaining, sir.

No. Understood. Understood. And I have another procedural question, which is there is a motion on the table to take a roll call vote. If, if I or another member of the committee were inclined to want to lay this item on the table, would that be would we take a a roll call vote on whether to take a roll call vote?

Or Sorry if I'm if I'm not communicating that that clearly enough. I think it would be my my preference to keep this in committee until next meeting, allowing for additional information that, you know, may come our way in executive session or otherwise. And so I'm really just trying to find out what does that mean about this motion on the table.

Mister chair, Procedure Liberal 16 of the city council states that when a question is under debate before the city council or committee, presiding officers shall entertain no motion, but to adjourn to lay on the table for the previous question. To lay on the table is a preferential motion. The motion shall be decided by majority of those present and shall take precedence in the order in which they are arranged. So if you do wish to lay this item on the table, you can move to do so, and it will take precedence over, my motion, for the previous question.

Thank you. I appreciate that clarification. Councilor Link, did you have something on the motion?

Yes. I'm I'm I'm of the mind that that we should be that we should be voting on this and and and making decision. The STIR and all of this aside, the the I think the the question is really on the finance side, you know, does it make sense?

Thank you. I for my judgment, I think the, financial question could be swayed based on information. I'm not saying that I expect it to be. And that's that's where my preference to lay it on the table comes. So I do move to lay this item on the table for next meeting. And is that something that we then take a roll call vote on?

Mister chair, given that there have been differing opinions on how to proceed, I would recommend a roll call vote on that.

Thank you. Clerk, would you please take a roll call vote on the motion to lay this item on the table?

Yep. So this is item number 18, to lay it on the table. Councilor Link? No. Councilor Strazo? Yes. Councilor Hart? Yes. Councilor Scott?

No. Thank you.

Chair Wheeler?

Yes.

Alright. With that, that is three votes in favor of laying this on the table and two against.

Thank you. I don't mean to string this along, but, I do want to allow for more information to come our way. Okay. That item is laid on the table to be, taken up. My intention is next meeting.

And that brings us to the last item, item 19, ID 26Dash0636. Alexandra Thorn and Daniel Wong submitting comments regarding item twenty six dash zero three seven eight, the grant for body worn camera program. I hope everyone else has also read those comments, which call for us to, to wait until the legislative matters, decision is made on the STIRR. And if there's any other any discussion on these items, I see none. So this item is marked work completed.

And now, clerk, would you please take, oh, sorry. Do I hear a motion to, sorry. Let me look back at my notes. Do I hear a motion from anyone to recommend approval of the items on the table and then to adjourn?

Motion to approve the items on the table and also to adjourn.

Thank you. Councilor Strazo moves to recommend approval of the items on the table and then to adjourn. Clerk, could you please read the agenda item numbers of the items up for recommendation to approve and call the role on recommending approval of those items in adjournment?

Yes. I can. Alright. This is on approving items one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight,

nine, and

eleven together, ten, twelve, thirteen, fourteen, fifteen, sixteen, and 17 as well as adjournment. Councilor Link?

Yes.

Councilor Strazo? Yes. Councilor Hart?

Yes.

Councilor Scott? Yes. Chair Wheeler?

Yes.

Alright. With that, it is 08:15PM, and we are adjourned, and those items are recommended for approval.

Thank you all, and have a good night.

Thank you very much. Have a great night.

You too. Thank you. Care.