Planning Commission - workshop

Go ahead, Gene. We're on.

All right. We're going to call to order the Planning Commission for July 14th. Do you need a roll call?

We're here. Sure. You do a roll call.

All right. Me?

We can do it.

All right.

Commissioner Vance. Here. Commissioner Wendell. Present. Commissioner Barnes. Here. Chair Simpson.

Here.

We have Commissioner... to Watson and Commissioner Kai absent.

Alrighty. Planning staff updates.

Just a few things. Sure. Wes, Eric and I are working on the scope of work right now. We'll be reaching out to Clean Water Services and DLC staff next week to roll over that scope just to refine it and make sure we're not missing anything. And then we're going to send the draft scope to Metro staff for their input as well. Because we'll be working with them closely because they basically provided the grant for Sherwood West. So we work with them closely on both the scope. We have a grant application that I'm working on right now. to initially send to them. And then, yeah, the next step after that is putting out an RFP and trying to do consultant interviews.

Okay. And so what this particular project is to do the entire comprehensive plan? Yes. So that's the scope of work to comprehensively plan final version.

We're sure, Wes.

Yeah. Okay.

It'd be the draft plan. Right, conceptual, right?

And now we're going to go into the conceptual, yep. And now we'll go do a final plan that goes through council and then to DLCD for approval, right?

Yeah, it goes through you guys, council. I don't know, does it go to the city? Yes, it does go to the city.

It does.

Yeah. And so as part of this scope, of course, there's a lot more inventory of wetlands, you know, upland habitat, but they're also, we will be looking at the TSP that Joy is going to be presenting to you shortly, and numerous other studies that the city has going on right now, water sewer, stormwater, and then we have a housing capacity analysis that will be starting there soon as well.

And so all the plans that we're working on now and

over the future are we putting placeholders in for sherwood west or we're still kind of figuring that out we in the scope of work we will have um we'll have the consultants work with us and see how we integrate those plans either like the i think the tsp Once Sherwood West comprehensive planning starts, there'll be amendments to the TSP. So we may be doing that to the other plans, water, stormwater, as we get into those. The housing capacity analysis, we'll be starting that later this year. And that is something that it won't finish until next year. We could probably have the consultant roll that into the comprehensive planning for Sherwood West.

Okay.

That way, because we don't want to do that one twice.

Yeah, no. But the plan, the... Structural plans, DSP water sewer, those having placeholders. Okay.

Are you requesting subs with their qualifications in as part of the SOQ package?

We're going to see what we get from the consultants. But yeah, we expect that they will, depending on what firms apply. I think some firms are big enough where they will actually have those applications. People with that specialty on staff, others are probably going to sub it out.

Do you have a short list already or a pre-qualified list?

No, not that I'm aware of. No. The other thing I just want to update the commission on is the Old Town Strategic Action Plan. Next week, the council will be getting... An overview of Site D. That's the site right outside the Arts Center. They have given First 40 Feet funding to do a feasibility study. What it's going to take, like building, what type of building, one-story, two-story, purpose, cost, what it would cost to build something there.

So we'll be... Is that the one they want to do, like a train station theme? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. And the other thing is we continue to work with Baldwin Valley Fire about future extension of Columbia Street and then working with them to figure out the best location for their fire station. If they stay there or maybe if they need to move it slightly.

Commissioner Kyes. Oh.

all right sorry i'm a little it's our son's birthday today so just trying to do stuff for all right well have the record show commissioner kai has dialed in during these uh planning staff update thank you no problem and then the fire station moves because of the constant planning pool town with the roundabout or whatever the some of the intersection stuff yeah possibly it's

As far as the alignment goes, we're looking at several different environments for Columbia Street coming into that intersection. One of those options would have the fire station potentially move. Other options would have it stay there.

But they still had expressed a desire to move to somewhat, didn't have they?

Yeah, they are still, they're, I guess, willing to work with the city and work with us on a plan. And I don't, it really needs to go back to council to see really really going to say we want to move anyway somewhere they want to rebuild they need to rebuild the station whether they rebuild it on the site they're at now or whether with working with the city we need to relocate them and across the street or something that's still to be determined but the old school house used to be in that vacant lot

Is there, I'm getting a little off topic, but since we talked about short west, are there city services like that or TBF&R services planned for over there too? I mean, now that we're across the highway, do we need to get a second station?

That'll be working with TBF&R, with the police station, like, I don't know. Do we need a substation out there? I'm just curious. Part of that. Talk about that later. And the schools. Yeah. On the radar. That's all my update.

All right. Joy. Excellent. Four hours early. Wow. The TSP update.

Wonderful. Can you get me to it? Oh, here you go.

Can you share your screen as well?

Oh, okay.

Do you want to do that? Sure. Sorry.

Yeah.

Can you see the screen?

Commissioner Kai, can you see yours?

Yes, I can.

Okay, excellent. Thank you. All right, well, thank you, commissioners. Joy Chang, I used to be a planner here. I'm now a project manager leading the TSP of DATE. So today, the purpose of our work session is just to inform you how we started and where we're at. Um, so, and this is all review for you, of course, because you are part of the citizen advisory committee, which I thank you.

Can we just, just question how many people, how many commissioners have been through the TSP or some other work program, just so that we can like from a 10,000 foot view, what the.

Right. Okay. So basically, uh, I don't know if I've

I joined in 2020, late 2021.

Commissioner Kai, have you been through the TSP process? I just want to make sure that we're not leaving people behind for I'm fairly positive I've been through the TSP process. Okay. Okay. I just want to make sure that we started with a baseline understanding of what we're doing. Okay. Right.

And I'll kind of go through that as far as what the purpose is, just a general overview. So agenda today, again, is the project overview and the purpose, the timeline and the current status where we're at. What public engagement we've done so far, we are really going to talk about performance measures, this is something new as far as low stress transportation network. And then we're going to have an opportunity of feedback and discussion and then what exactly are the next steps. Oh, can we decrease this? Can I do that? Okay. And just move it over here maybe. Okay, great. So this is the project team. So I'm managing it along with Jason Waters, our city engineer and Rich Sattler, public works. We had planning rep art, but he's moved on to greater pastures. as far as, so I don't know who, but Eric is standing in for us temporarily as the project management team for Sherwood. And then we've hired Kittleson's team to help us move us forward. And they've been really great because they've done lots of TSP updates. Maybe.

And that's a private company that does this?

Consulting, yeah.

Our civil engineering firm.

Yep. Okay. Oh, boy. All right. Well, project overview. So, again, the TSP... plan is a comprehensive process that helps shape the future of transportation in our community. It guides long-term investments in roads, sidewalk, bike lanes, transit, and other mobility options to ensure safe, efficient, and sustainable transportation network. This includes enhancing active transportation, promoting multimodal travel options, and ensuring safe routes to school for your youngest travelers. So the newest legal requirements are, of course, you guys are familiar with the climate friendly and equitable Community rulemaking the see fact we've updated our code, so that we could be in compliance. That with that it also required updates to the transportation system plans and designated metro 2040 centers as climate friendly areas. And the Langer area is our climate-friendly area where that's identified. So the current TSP, again, was adopted back in 2014. And state law requires TSP to be updated every 10 years. And so that is why... We're updating it now and it's going to reflect changes that have occurred since 2014 and provide this 20 year horizon and identify potential amendments to the comp plan, the community development code and other implementation documents. So comprehensive plan oversees everything and then there's all these little other from all the lecture room plans, the community plans, the TSP, all of those are elements of the comprehensive plan.

So quick question.

Yeah.

So it's been since 2014. We did something with the TSP a few years ago, the Brooklyn Road. I remember. Yeah. So what we've done is, um,

We did a refinement on the Brookman Road. It's a refinement. So then it identified is Brookman going straight to Chapman or the original alignment was going further north. And also it evaluate the east end, the southeast end, you know, attaching to Ladd exactly. Zach Ladhill. But also we've made TSP amendments, like you guys adopted the policy in regards to alleys, alleyways. So we've done little tweaks like that, but this is a full blown. We're reviewing everything just because a lot of the projects, not a lot, but several of the projects in the 2014 projects list we've already constructed. And so we're going to be creating new projects. and reweighing them or, you know, creating different priorities, because right now we have different priorities related to active active transportation. So there may be more projects that come to the list because of that. Other questions.

As the timing seems apropos, considering the short West, but should that concept plan come together before we do? Yes, we are. Yeah. All right.

Yeah, I'm going to talk about that. So this is our project timeline at this time, and the area is where we're at. We're actually for public engagement. We're doing the Robin Hood this weekend, so come visit us. We're going to have a booth along with planning, so all of the projects that planning has will also be there. We'll be providing flyers so that individuals can... get the QR code so that they can get to the website and provide input. So TSP is also going to be showcased. We've had several technical advisory committee and citizen advisory meetings, which is wonderful. And Commissioner Barnes has attended that and represented the planning commission. We have representatives, I think we have about 13 or 14 citizen advisory committees members that are quite diverse, which is awesome. From senior, youth, we have three or four community members at large. We have representatives from the Traffic Safety Board. The manager of the e-bike store is also a member. um so yeah so it's it we have a great representation um and someone from the senior advisory board is also uh in attendance yes yes Jim Jim Brooks yeah he is yes he's he's been really great so we as you can tell um Where the line is, we did existing conditions, but also now we're doing future conditions and solutions development. And ultimately, the ultimate outcome is to draft the actual TSP. So hopefully we can do that in the winter, have a draft, and then final adoption in the spring or no later than June 30th. of next year. And that is where you guys will definitely be involved because it's an ordinance as far as adoption where you guys would make a recommendation to city council and then city council will ultimately make that final decision. But sometime in October, I believe, October 13th, I'm gonna come back to you with a consultant. We're gonna be discussing draft preferred solutions For near and long term improvements. So almost like a project list. And then after we discuss it with you guys. The week after we're going to be discussing it with Council. So if anything, I want I want you guys not to be. That's why I'm here to be hearing about the project come in October or at the time of adoption.

Do you have a project website that we can get links emailed to us so that we can catch up on the work that's been done already?

Yes, all of the TAC and CAC materials are on there and Everything that we're doing, especially the engagement, is also on there too. But yeah, we can definitely send that information to you.

Maybe I'll say it differently. Can you handhold me an email that tells me where to go? Okay, yeah.

So that's basically where we're at as we move forward. So here's the timelines that you guys are trying to figure out. How does everything play nice together since everything is in a different timeline? So in relation to Sherwood West, we basically, we would have had to stop and not start the TSP update if we wanted to wait for Sherwood West, because we started back in April of 2025 of last year in regards to doing all this and And we weren't quite sure at that time with the litigation that was happening on when exactly Sherwood West would kickstart. But what we have decided is that we acknowledge that Sherwood West is coming as far as the TSP update, but we will have to do a TSP update amendment for Sherwood West because it's gonna be, you know, depending on, The zoning that's going to be laid out through that process is going to dictate the type of capacity and traffic flows and things like that. And just because there's industrial and commercial, in addition to residential, there's all these different factors that we can't, we're doing a little modeling, but not to the extent that we will have to do when Sherwood West comes in. So we acknowledge that through this process. And so it is what it is in order to correlate with everything. But there's the ED Elgort study that's happening through Washington County. They're reviewing that intersection, but also the entire ED road. And then there's, of course, master's plants that are happening. And then we just finished the Old Town strategic plan. So that's how everything's related. But the Old Town Strategic Plan is going to inform what we're doing because that's done. And ED is also going to inform because it's kind of happening simultaneously in regards to the final product that we're going to be adopting.

So the TSP update then is going to exclude Sherwood West completely?

Yeah, at this time.

Just address the rest of Sherwood? Yeah. And then we amend it later?

Yeah.

And otherwise, we have to put it on hold, is what you're saying.

Right. If we wanted to do... If we wanted to have him completed simultaneously, there would have been a year lag. We would have just been... Because you're just scoping now. Yeah.

Well... I guess, I mean, what is it that's so urgent about the TSP aside from Sherwood West that we need to work on it now and then deal with it again later a second time?

Well, it's over 10 years old. And it's a state requirement that we have to have data.

It's a state requirement. It's been recommended before 10 years.

I would say more from a perspective I have is that if most of the projects or a large portion of the priority projects are done in the CTSB, the SDCs and the other funding mechanisms that rely on numbers in our current TSP don't have our current priority projects because they've been identified subsequently.

Are there still a lot of projects to do in the developed portion of Sherwood? I guess that's what I'm asking. What is this that we need to tackle right now?

Interesting. I received direction that it was happening.

that yeah i mean it just seems like we put that on hold and move comprehensive plan up we just get to that faster and then we deal with the rest of it but yeah i don't know i don't know enough about it i mean there's still a lot there's still a lot to do in current city limits you know we have of course we have i think that the basic basic you know framework done i would anyway and Brooklyn and things like that. But a lot of what's happening now is more focused on multimodal bikes and, and pedestrian. And so it's really kind of fine tuning that. But from a, um, just from like a staff and capacity standpoint, it could actually be smart to do it now because the, the, the TSP is big. So Joy's, Joy's taking it in. Almost, you know, it's almost all she's doing. And so when we get into comprehensive planning for Sherwood West as well, because it isn't just Sherwood West, it's the entire city. We kind of have one large TSP for the whole city going on. Plus Sherwood West comprehensive planning. Those are two big projects. And so in a way, I think it actually, it might, it's probably smart to, you know, take this big chunk and get the whole city done, minus Sherwood West, and then we come up with an amendment to the TSP. Because you guys might thank us later, too, for not bringing both the TSP... A giant city council.

It's entirely likely I do not understand everything we're trying to do with these.

Just asking. Advisory committees. Engagement. Technical advisory committees. You could kind of burn into one of them. So I don't know that we really, I think what happened is just the TSP was just ready first. And we were kind of just figuring out some things. But I think that's probably good, actually. Yeah.

Doesn't it also help us flush out things like the punk unemployment area and get those details and those projects that weren't as shovel-ready 12 years ago, didn't even know, except they were going to be a couple of arrows. Yeah, in this TSP. Yeah, the timing of that helps projects not only getting the CFEC and the monomodal, but the projects that we didn't even know about 12 years ago so that we can get funding mechanisms in place. So when development comes in, we can say our TSP says this is what it's going to look like. And we don't have that now.

Yeah. And even projects that are coming up through community comments, like a connection with Middlebrook, connection to Sherwood. You know they feel like there isn't that and and they've been at as far as that community it's been advocating there needs to be some type of biped connection, not just. From what the developers have done, but something that really connects to existing Sherwood so which is great because we're finding these projects as we're moving forward through this process.

Thank you, that's helpful.

All right, and then- What is biped?

What is this term? Bipedastrand? Bipedastrand. Well, I thought I just wanted to be sure.

Okay. So as far as the public engagement overview, our website is, we definitely have an interested parties list. We had a wonderful Sherwood open house in the winter. It was a joint effort, not just the TSP. There was a lot of individuals that came in, but a lot of them were more interested on EDL work project. But, you know, we were there in the room, which is wonderful. We had a walking and biking workshop yesterday where we had 13 individuals. Actually, the room still set up that way, where we had big, gigantic plants and people were drawing lines where they're both pedestrian and bicyclist. as far as this low-speed network we're going to be discussing. There's an online interactive map, wiki map, that people can provide where the gaps are in their comments. All of the stuff is available online. So the wiki map is at this link here. So now until August 3rd, it's open. We're tabling the Robin Hood Festival also. So you'll see us three all in different times there. We are doing a virtual Hope in House starting next week. where they can watch, I believe, a video. It's not done yet, but of someone talking, probably me, and then you guys answering questions virtually.

So I have a question on the interactive map where the gaps, you know, where we can plot in the things. So I'm not on social media, but I do read the gazettes. And so I didn't see anything about that. I haven't seen it. And so I'm wondering, is it going to be out in print someplace for people to do? And if the next Sherwood Gazette comes out, it's probably going to be right when that's going to be closing. And so I'm wondering... There's always a blurb from the planning center back there. Sorry, that's what I said.

since it's not an ordinance at this time, right? So there isn't any publication requirements, but that is where we should try. We're trying to relay this message. And I know that we've created, we started doing social media, both on X and Facebook and also Instagram showing the links. um and asking for individuals input um i'm going to be posting them at the five different areas throughout sherwood which i know it depends if you look at those bulletin boards or not um and i'm not quite sure what the deadline is for the archer uh if it's already too late we can look at it but they would still have to go online to respond

Right.

I'm reading the, you know, it's something that goes to every mailbox and I look at the planning section to see if anything's going on. And it was, there was no, Hey, these are the projects that planning is going to be working on. And I think having people be able to rely on the Archer to say, here are projects, especially since we've got these big projects coming up, community outreach can't just be social media. We have a lot of, you know, I'm luckily there's a, uh, someone from the, uh, senior center on the thing where it can be posted there so people could do it, but there's other people that read the, it's not the Gazette, it's the Archer, but whatever. I think it would have been, I think we missed, missed an opportunity there to get it out into print for people. Yeah.

We can definitely highlight certain Sherwood West and we've been, we've been hammering the old town plan. You've probably seen it in there a lot, but we can include, uh, Definitely Sherwood West and the TSP. I mean, I think you've done one or two already, right? We haven't posted about that.

Yeah, we haven't posted anything related to what we're doing like this month. Right.

But we have hit the archer with TSP. It wasn't in the planning section. It was in a different section, I think, but we have, but yeah, we can do a summary in the Archer.

Yeah, but definitely we're going to have an in-person open house come the fall. So sometime in September, we'll make sure to have an article in the Archer related to that just to, since more people get that as far as in their mail.

Is there a reason why the wiki is only open until August 3rd?

Yes, because we're trying to finalize the pedestrian, the low stress network, both pedestrian and bicycle. So we're trying to get everyone's input so that the consultant can take that data and move it forward.

Maybe at the, for example, last year when you bring a laptop out and they Sit next to the Sherwood broadband stand and then you guys share. Yeah.

I mean, yeah, we'll, we could, I was planning on that as far as bringing the laptop. But the flyer that's coming. So let me talk about the flyer next, but we have a citizen advisory committee and a technical advisory committee. So that's, Unlike the other HB 2000 where the Commission was the citizen advisory committee for that legislative work.

So so if we could just I just don't want to lose the on the planning section if we could get that orange to be a little bit lighter so that it's easier to read because that's a dark orange with black is just terrible to try and read that. But in that section, could we put a little upcoming projects like every time you know, or something so people can, I don't want, because Sherwood West is going to be a big deal. And if they say the first time they heard about it was when we're already four months into the project, we're going to get backlash from that. And I, you know, I know there's articles that are doing it, but, you know, somehow to get TSP, Sherwood West, all these other projects out there

Yeah, yeah, we don't. I can ask about the font cover, not something that, certainly not something that I... It's the background. Oh, it's the background, okay. I don't know if we do that in-house or we send it out, but I can ask. I can ask the person who puts that together. And then, yeah, I think we put together a short upcoming project. There's going to be some repetition because it comes out every two months, so they're going to see kind of a...

But I want to see a comfort area that says, because we were used to Mayor's Corner, we got the police blog, we got these other things, and people got used to seeing upcoming long-range planning in there. And even if it just says, no explanation, just transportation system plan, blah, blah, blah, go to the website. People should know that, but they might not. especially if you're new to the community, having a block that says upcoming long range planning. This is gonna be a heavy for three years. We're gonna have big projects going on and it's, disheartening when someone comes to the meeting that's the hearing when you've been working on it for three years. And they said, well, I didn't know about it. I'm like, oh, I don't know how else we could have told you. Well, that's it.

That's the answer. We've done everything. Right, and so that's on them.

Yeah, and so it's on them, but if we do print media twice a month or every other month to everybody in the city, it's easy to say from the dais, well, in your mailbox, every other month, these were announced. Yeah.

So are you volunteering to write a guest column every two months?

No, I'm volunteering staff to put a headline that says long range planning projects, transportation system plan are in the works or something so that there's a little box at the bottom. One more spot to inform the citizenry.

Yeah. Put the QR test for the planning. Yeah. Yeah. I don't want to leave that trans out either, but I do want to go back to the Wiki website. And with Kittleson, in our meetings, we talk about the mobility in terms of getting point A to point B. I want to make sure that the wiki in our, we communicate to Kittleson that just getting to point A and point B is fine, but it's how we get there for disabled and disadvantaged individuals. Like some stretches of Sunset between Snyder Park and Archer Glen Going down that bomb of a hill, too dangerous to like for children. Older changes don't exist. So we have to make sure that The wiki and the material that we're doing are like, yes, this is possible, but this is also has it or.

The site itself, and we can go to that after this presentation, the site itself, you can provide comments related to that you just put drop a pin to say this whole stretch is an ADA. in that aspect of it. But that is what we did at the workshop yesterday. But I wasn't at a table that anyone identified that particular stretch, but we had three tables full of individuals. So that was really good. Other questions?

Yes, you said something. Sorry, I keep asking kind of dumb terms questions. You keep using the word low stress, something or other.

Yeah, we're going to be talking about it. Let's get to that. Transportation, low stress. Low stress. So this is the flyer, our current flyer that we're currently sending out on social media. We'll be handing this out at Robin Hood, where it has the QR code for that Wikimap. And also our project website that also has this. And ultimately, the virtual open house, once it's live, will be posted on the website too. so that people can find the link.

You can blow that up and have it just on LinkedIn.

hard copy of it outside at the stand well actually i printed um like they didn't show people how to use it on their phone uh no what's going to happen is i'll have a laptop that shows it so then um that has the program and if they want to provide comments then yeah if you have the qr codes there for people like me that need to yeah i'm i'm actually i printed this out on uh you know, to where I'm handing them out so the individuals don't have to do it right there so that they can enjoy Robin Hood and not be doing transportation comments simultaneously.

That is how we enjoy Robin Hood.

Well, I like taking photos with Robin Hood and the merriment and the means anyway. Okay. So just so that you guys are aware that and again, Sherwood West will also be a mandate to do this too. There's a engagement. Engagement process is more enhanced. where they wanna make sure that we're increasing our focus to underserved and vulnerable populations during our outreach throughout the whole process. And us documenting that, that is the effort that we have made. So I don't know if you guys remember when we were looking for citizen advisory committee members, that was the call out, if you are, BIPOC individual, we highly suggest that you apply. But as we all know, Sherwood isn't as diverse as other populations in the metro area. So I think we're doing really well considering in regards to the makeup of our citizen advisory committee.

Maybe this is also, how do those features and diverse features affect like driving and just walking? Like, I don't know.

Well, possibly individuals that might be lower income, maybe more on utilizing transit or walking and biking versus owning a car.

Well, I started to get trails and less of neighbors don't get trails. Okay.

Yeah. I mean, if anything, we just want to make sure that.

So BIPOC is code for income disparity in this case.

Well, it's black and gingerness and other people of color. Yeah.

But it's also underserved and vulnerable. So it's yes and all the above. Yeah.

Lower income. Yeah. So here's the performance measure standards that we were, I kept on talking about. So let me just say that it's important where performance measures, because the city's evaluating not only future roadway needs, but also the quality of the multimodal network. Measures such as a low stress active transportation network like sidewalk and trail connectivity, safe routes to school access, safety and network completeness provide a way to assess whether plan investments align with the community goals. in the city's vision for a safe, connected transportation system. So these measures also create a transparent basis of prioritizing projects and tracking progress throughout the life of the TSP. So, oh, So these are measures that Metro requires us as far as, you know, make transit more convenient, biking and walking safe and convenient, manage parking efficiently, support transitions to low carbon fuels. I mean, they have a lot of regulations and we're trying to implement them. So, again, this is just a slide that talks about exactly what they are. And I'll share this PowerPoint with you guys later, too, if you want to dig into this, because this is... The low-stress network is really technical, and I'm not an engineer, I'm a planner, so I'm just gonna try to help move it forward here. Application to the TSP. We're required to report it to Metro based on the 2023 Regional Transportation Plan. local agencies can support. So this is the difference this year is that cities must adopt at least two performance standards. At least one must support increasing transportation options and avoiding principal reliance on automobile. So that's the biggest takeaway in regards to these performance measures. We actually went to city council to discuss with them on exactly what this alternate performance measure is the first current standards right now has always been auto focus, where volume over capacity, volume to capacity ratio, that's all that our current TSP is in regards to performance. But now we have to figure out exactly what should we do as the second alternative. And so Again, it's for the non auto standard aligned with state rules. Many comments from the CAC and Council desired to walk and bike across town comfortably. We heard that a lot. And then additional desire to incorporate the off street trails. So our parks member Jim was the one that was advocating. We should be counting this as part of our trail system or our network system, low stress system.

Two questions. One, are the standards that we're developing our standards or are they the standards that Metro has determined that we need to adopt?

They can be... we can create our standards as long as they're in compliance with Metro. If that makes sense.

Because the standards... Like we're still using their compliance.

Well, so...

The boundaries that we can work within, it sounds like.

Yeah. Yeah, because what, like this performance, the current standards is, you know, volume over capacity. Let's just say we can make it so that the level of service could be F as in Frank. where it's worse. We could say we want to, you know, we're okay for that particular roadway to be worse. And as long as it's okay with metro standards or within their parameters, it could be very specific to the city.

So, and specific to regions within the city, because I see you have city intersections versus outside town center, which...

Right, but those are current standards. So we're changing things up where... The proposed standards are in roadways. They're very similar as far as auto. The first two lines are very similar to the volume to capacity. But the non-auto, this is where the low stress active transportation network, how we're going to evaluate is system completeness. Let's just say we've identified that we have 88% of our right-of-way has sidewalks. So that means we have, how much is that? 18? If we have 18, I can't add. Well, we have 12 more percentages of improvement. And that's how we're going to be able to measure to say we're in compliance. Because every time we build that bikeway, every time we build that sidewalk, it just adds to it.

So the proposed standards here are in compliance with we need two major. And these are the two major.

Yeah, we're going to do auto and then we're also going to do bike pad.

Then the non-auto is the one you're saying is a low stress active transportation network.

Yes.

And that is going to be our second standard.

Yes.

Okay.

As far as measurements, performance measures, yes.

And then can you, I guess to Dan's question earlier, can you define what low-stress active transportation means?

I just asked AI.

Okay.

Low-stress active transportation never provides safe, comfortable routes for walking, cycling, or rolling, ensuring people don't have to share lanes with fast or heavy car traffic.

So you don't share the lane. So that's the low-stress part of it is that it's a...

Yeah, it's a network by itself. Let's let's I have low stress for everybody.

Good drivers. Transportation system.

So to develop this network, you know, we had CAC members shed comments about the role of off street trails. Again, the updated TPR focus on biking and walking conditions of an entire street network. And then also financial challenges building the network across the entire streets plus cost. not accounting for path led to individual network. So I think recognizing the roles of off street trails place or establishes a low stress active transportation network. That was the start of the conversation, which I thought was excellent because Sherwood has lots of trails. And one of the key aspect that it can be a soft, soft trail as in, it can't just be bark chip. um gravel it actually have to be some type of uh non-permeable surface as in um pavement paved yeah it has to be paved gravel not gravel but uh concrete or asphalt or yeah a bridge uh it has something what's the width minimum um We haven't gotten there yet.

But we get to set our standards.

Right. Because what we're also counting too is like the multi-use paths, which are bigger than the typical five foot sidewalk, right? We're counting those as part of our low stress network because it allows that pedestrian or cyclist outside of the actual right of way where the car is going to be.

So five lanes are... considered not low stress.

Well, they are. Okay, so they wouldn't be... If the roadway has a bike lane designation with a striping... that would be considered part of the low stress network. Because it's a designated bike lane. Yeah, like even Roy Rogers and Tualatin Sherwood Roads, you can see the ramps going, you know, the sidewalk. That's a shared use path that someone's gonna be, it's a shared sidewalk that is both for- Yeah.

but also like I'm thinking like sunset near the four-way stop there's no bike path there but there's a sidewalk that's really really wide yeah that's a shared path in that account yeah yeah the bike path is really wide at the four-way stop at sunset I've seen kids on bikes because I drop our kids off all the time there but I wouldn't say it's wide enough for bikes and pedestrians or should it be used for bikes because the sidewalk on sunset you're like Woodhaven Park area. Down there it is. Oh, I thought.

That's where I was thinking of because.

Oh, I was thinking before I stopped at. Yeah. at Maine.

Yeah. Oh, you know, that's, that's a different, no, I was thinking down, sorry. Yeah. That's, that's what I was envisioning in my example. There's no bike path, but there's a sidewalk. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's kind of off the street. Yeah. That, that part's perfect. Yeah.

I would highly suggest that you guys get on the wiki maps and make comments just because if we're not capturing everything, if we don't know, we don't know. Right. So highly suggest that, um, uh, Yeah, so we split the most to pedestrian and also bicycle. Both paths, off-street paths are both included as part of the network. So bike network focused on primary citywide connection grid with secondary network of neighborhood streets. So like I said, shared use paths along the roadways are considered off-street, so. So this is just an image right now of what we're looking at. It's definitely not complete because we're getting input from everyone, but this is just the initial data that we've gathered based on our GIS files that we currently have. It calls out existing planned existing shared path, planned shared path, existing street with no facilities. So in the wiki map, you'll see this, so you guys can identify where the gaps are. And again, this is the bicycle network. For both maps, we identified key places where people may travel to, like Providence, the schools, downtown government, So then people can orient themselves as they're providing comments because a lot of the draw for individuals are those main key destinations or activity centers so when it uses the word facilities existing on road facilities that's talking about like a qualifying low stress path of some kind right or like a bike this is the bike so there's probably a bike lane yeah that's the key is that there's a bike lane or or uh or like if it's on sunset if it's a multi-use path that's considered HAB-Masyn Moyer- usable or can be used by.

HAB-Masyn Moyer- Oregon street from the roundabout.

HAB-Masyn Moyer- I don't.

HAB-Masyn Moyer- West that's a red line isn't it.

HAB-Masyn Moyer- Because there is no there is there is nothing in that one second streets with no facilities. HAB-Masyn Moyer- it's hardly distinguishable from the fatter. HAB-Masyn Moyer- Yes, the color close together yeah.

I think, yeah, you need a different color because there is nothing on Oregon.

Wait a minute. Yeah. But also, one thing I just noticed is I was on that CAC a long time ago, but the trail that goes in the very, that's what I was talking about. This trail here is planned. It's not, it should be dashed, not existing.

Well, this is... Okay, so...

I'll send you an email. Or go on the website. Circle, highlight.

All right. Oh, do we? Okay.

Are we okay? Okay, great.

So, oh, hey, we're here.

I had more.

It's like, oh, okay.

We missed that process. We didn't jump the gun the whole time.

No, that's okay. But you know what? Since I have you guys, let's get back to the actual wiki page so that you can see it. I think I have the connection here. Let's see. Let's hope it works.

I pulled it up on my phone and I can see everybody has comments, but I'm not sure.

It is. So this is it. So it has a legend, and it seems like, oh, there's a lot of people providing comments. These are all comments that people have provided. So please, yeah, so please do go in here. So like here, I know, I believe this one here, it says, I sent my notes to Joe.

That's helpful. There you go.

I mean, but like your comments in regards to sunset.

Put something down there. Please. We've got friends that live in the New Brookman area. And I had mentioned, we'll be back up. One of the gentlemen in our TSP or in our advisory and technical advisory meeting, he had a book of comments ready to go. He was very well informed. first in the connectivity issues between Brookman and, um, Sherwood. And he's like, well, there's existing paths through, uh, I think it's Cedar Creek that, you know, are adventitious trails that are just made, um, and trying to figure out a way of connecting those with an at-grade crossing. And the fact of crossing the rail line is difficult, um, And it's a process that we need to work through. I think that is one major area with workmen and seeing if we can get, I don't know if the city has like an eminent domain type process for putting a trail along Cedar Creek like they do at, what was the one that's, the new trail that was just finished off of 99 before, from a cell also north 99, right? Yeah. Yeah. Something like that. But I think we might want to look into ideas for helping the constituents or the people that live in that area connect.

We are.

Can you point to where you're talking about?

It's here. This whole area here.

Yeah. Yeah. Still a whole center or something. It's not, we're still. The trail I'm talking about is the, It's basically right up 99 before you turn into what cadence, the bookstore area. There's a road. It's trail right here.

There's that one, but yeah. That's the new one, right?

Yeah. Yeah, that's the new one.

And then doing something like that down and bringing those guys, connecting them. That's not a good comment.

You mentioned Brooklyn. But you were talking about it. I'm thinking we should have a trail from Brooklyn to connect to Sunset.

Well, I do want to let you know that Upper management and council heard all the community comments in regards to Brooklyn area. And we actually have executed a professional service as far as the scope of work to do that analysis. Yeah. So.

Great nature trail.

Yeah. We're actually utilizing, we're utilizing city funds so that there could be a feasibility study for a trail system.

What are the developers supposed to be?

Developers are developing as they move forward.

Based on the existing TSP. And the existing TSP doesn't have a trail in there. So they're not... That's why the... Now I understand the urgency. That's why the project list in a TSP can drive the community in a positive direction as development occurs.

Yes. So...

Yes, Eric? Sorry, you...

The developers have been doing partial, but they typically will do offsite. So they've been doing with one, two exceptions. The developers along Cedar Creek have been out there lately.

I've been trying to look down. I know there is a walkway that goes down portions of it and connects within the neighborhood, but I'm interested and I haven't taken it and where I can say, if we put a trail in here, it'll connect over to, for example, there's another trail on the other side of Cedar Creek, on the east side of Cedar Creek.

Yeah, exactly. So the developers have been doing trails within the Cedar Creek Greenway, if you will, riparian corridor, um, to the extent that it was feasible. There was one exception where, uh, we were putting in the sewer trunk line was going in and we would have had, the city would have had to tear up the new trail. And so they paid a fee and limited the city. City's going to build that trail after the trunk line goes in. Um, the connection to, uh, either up to sunset within Cedar Creek, all that is actually already owned by the city. So when developers, um, do their plat, do their subdivision plat. Most of the time, the environmental gets transferred to the city. So we own, so you mentioned in the net domain would be to do that. It would still, what this feasibility alternatives analysis going to do is figure out should we go up cedar creek to sunset should we just go across cedar creek to behind redford lane which is the trail you mentioned or some other alternative yeah um so uh we have a symbol looking at it now great and i think it's um i think yeah city council has definitely heard the um the concerns and in fact i stepped out to We're definitely looking at it. It's going to come down to finding the correct alternative and then getting the project Potentially the TSP, but for sure in the CIP and then in the budget response.

Yeah, the work that's, the analysis that's going to come from this work, we're going to roll it in as part of the TSP in regards to project list. But someone did ask, you know, when is it actually going to get built? And I go, we're studying it. And if it's on a list, that allows for opportunities.

Let's hold it at the pace of our heart.

Yes, Mr. Guy.

Yeah, Joy, question for you. And, you know, I know this is a pie in the sky, hope, but where is the potential to raise 99 across Cedar Creek Trail incorporated into the TSP or where is that in all of this?

Yeah, I believe there's an underpass. There's an underpass as part of the, there's an underpass that's proposed and that will roll into the project list.

As I remember, it was ODOT has to raise 99 over Cedar Creek in order to then have the ability to do the overpass. So this will be something that on a project like that, which more likely the trail will go up to Meineke crossover and then connect into the neighbors on the back way because ODOT will be 50 years, best case, no problem for if ever they ever create 99 there.

I mean, we've identified it as part of the regional trail because that whole segment is the west spur of the Ice Age Tonkin. So it's identified, but at the same time, if it actually happens, that's another conversation.

If it's not on the map, we can't go for federal funding, state funding. It is on the map.

It's on the map, and that's the key. And that's why the projects that we're going to be gathering allows the nexus to get the grant funding.

Yeah.

Yeah, both for active transportation and regular transportation. So for all of it. So other questions in regards to the Wikimap? So please use it. I'll share with you guys and go to the TSP update webpage. There's also a link there for the Wikimap for all of you guys that are watching. Other questions?

So you're going to send us links.

Yes.

Yes.

Dig down when it comes to going to the right place on the website.

And then we'll be able to see and read what the CAC's already gone through because just from previous experience, there is a lot of background information when a TSP finally gets to us. So to read... the work program that they've been working, the CAC, I'm pointing at you as a CAC member, you have probably done, cause all like existing condition reports and all those things are.

Yeah. The TAC, we've gotten plenty of back and forth with Kittleman. And so we've, those have been recorded the documents and the comments and the revisions have been provided to them. I don't know if there's, um, an archive of that i think that the only thing that we're going to have is probably a final product from the um consultant to say here is the actual plan after all of the revisions and comments that we received from the tac and the cac so but they should as part of their submittal would they not also do all the open house studies all the comments that came that those should be appendices yes yeah those will be there

And there'll be appendices that get handed to us right before the hearing. So you don't want to, I'm just saying to fellow commissioners, we don't want to read a two inch binder with all the appendices.

It'll be more than that.

The week before the hearing, so if we could start preloading our own reading materials to get existing conditions, citizen comments, the open house documents.

And all of the documents that we provided to the CAC and the TACs, they're all online. So anyone can pick it up at any time in regards to educate themselves so that they're up to speed.

But they're also, those are versioned because there might be a first version that we had in our first meeting that has been updated subsequently. So even though we may have the data online, some of that may be already subject to change.

Right. Just like the vision is, Uh, goals and policies. You know, we're already like, um.

The 4th version and what's on site may not be the most current version. Right? Right.

Right. Um, but at the same time, um, as a project manager, I'm keeping track of, you know, if someone wants to see the public record, here's the binder.

Right.

Yeah.

Yeah. But the versions haven't changed all that much. So if you look at the version three and version four is in production, version three will get you 95% of the way.

Right. And it's just a condition report. Yeah. And those are good.

But I don't, you know, I don't think that we've been recording other than recording our meetings with the TAC in terms of writing down the notes.

No, they've all been recorded and they're on our YouTube page. So yeah, Because we don't have, we don't have like a, we used to have an assistant, but we don't have that capacity.

Through AI, if you want to read. I was going to say co-pilot transcribes. Right.

Right. And if someone wants to watch, I mean, they can just find it on YouTube because they're all up there.

And the information that we are getting from the TAC is, Kittleman is taking down that information and they may have some additional background material that they're holding on to and their notes and whatnot, if necessary. But I think that they're doing a good job at taking it in and digesting it. And they have from meeting one to meeting two, for example, provided that feedback showing that they're making the changes. That said, there's obviously, if we want to look at it from a planning commission perspective, we should probably have our own, like I can send an email to you guys, like probably should actually send an email to you all, summarizing what we've done at each meeting, if that's something that would be more helpful to get you guys on, so we're not just behind the eight ball when it comes to that.

As a rep, when you guys do have a meeting, you can provide an update.

Yeah, I'll do that. So when we do, Commissioner comments at our next public hearing, you could provide an update to what's happened. Yeah, I would say spend, you know, three to seven minutes, depending on what it is to do an update, knowing that we'll get all the documents. But, you know, perspective wise, I'm excited to hear that Kittleson's tracking, changing, updating, listening to the feedback. Sometimes you get consultants that are... Oh no, they're on top of it.

And we get comments from our technical advisory committee too, which are our partners that are other jurisdictions that are like, Yeah. And also local partners, as in King City, Tiger, Tualatin. They're all part of, and also Clackamas County. So, I mean, and Tualatin Valley Fire and Rescue. All these individuals are part of this process just to make sure we're not missing anyone and getting input when necessary. And even TriMed's on the table. So, yeah.

Quick question for Sean and Jean is, if he sends us an email to the entire Planning Commission, is that going to be problematic? Is that a public meeting? So should we just not do that?

Yes, that's why I sent us a comment. It's a communication, but you can't discuss anything.

So it's okay for you to send an update, but do something to comment on it. Well, let me ask, because coming from a commissioner, actually, let me at a actual commission or sending a communication is coming from the source could matter actually.

So let me look. I like the idea of just doing it at our meetings. Yeah. I mean, I can summarize.

Yeah.

And even if the summary is handed to us under citizen comments, then it becomes part of the public record. And then it's easy for anybody that happens to be in the room or listening to get that information rather than, yeah, I like, thank you for bringing that up.

You know me, I'm the rule follower. Yes. I try to do that. That's my job for you. Okay.

All right. Other questions for me? You guys know how to reach me. So same email. Yep. Yep. And I just as a heads up, I work remotely and I'm only here for necessary meetings or when I need to be at Robin Hood or something like that. But yeah, but I'm very attentive in regards to emails or calls. You can reach me. But I will reach out and send you guys the links. And if need be, Jean, I can come in and walk you through.

I can figure it out. I just think it would help me with that. Don't forget.

That might be something for the seniors, like to have something like, hey, here's a library day or go to the senior center and here's the wiki.

Oh, that's good. Let me talk to Maya about that.

Yeah, because that would be a good outreach because, you know. It's just another opportunity.

Yeah, we have Cliff from the Senior Advisory Board. That's part of the, and he was at the workshop yesterday. But yeah, if there's an opportunity to get comments, that's always excellent. But I'll reach out to Maya.

Did I hear brunch?

You're reaching out to the other boards, commissions, chamber. At what point does that become useful information when we do outreach to the other boards, commissions, and chamber, the Old Town Merchants Association? I would think if we had, you know, we have points of contact for all these groups just to say, get out and touch the Wiki link and sign up and sign up for the interested party list. Because we've got however many projects you listed out there, if we could find the right avenue that gets the most amount of people, So that as we go through, I mean, no one's super excited about sewer water and stormwater. But, you know, Sherwood West is going to be a big one that if we don't get people in at the beginning, people don't understand that when it comes to hearing, all the decisions have already happened. been penciled in and to go back and have to repencil, that means you have to go back to your work program. And so it's nice to people because some of the best ideas come up at a hearing and you're like, okay, now we have to shoehorn something in at the end. If, man, if you could have come to that meeting two months ago, it would have just dovetailed right into it. There's no way of totally avoiding it, but

So I think one of the key things is the public engagement plan. Like we had a workshop yesterday and I made an effort to reach out to the committee. You know, you guys were invited, Traffic Safety Board, Senior, the youth. boards and parks, those were the three groups that I sent out an email asking for any interest on walking and biking. So it was targeted. But I think it all depends on what the outcome you're trying to get. But again, that was very specific to these are the individuals that I know would be interested in walking and biking. And I just need a handful. And they ended up in the middle of the day at 1 p.m. We had 13 individuals and the parking lot was full, which is excellent. And that's the engagement. But again, as we move forward with other plans, I think. Something to I, I'm, I'm assuming the consultant is going to have some specialist in regards to public engagement individuals. Yes, of course.

Yeah, because the builders home builders Association, and you need to need to get social developers in, make sure that we aren't missing marks. Oh yeah. Commercial industrial. I'm sure you, I'm sure there's a plan, but sometimes it's hard to see it and then be, you know, so many years of not, you know, 13 people's great at one o'clock in the afternoon for someone talking about walking and biking. But we've had hearings where it's, it's a big deal to people and you just left scratching your head going, I know we're all busy, but you're going to care about this sometime.

Yeah. That's true. Yeah. But I mean, people only have so much time and a lot of them are like, well, this is why I elect people to do this for me.

Right. Yeah. And that's where we can be representatives to say, you know, make sure that planning, commission at sherwood.gov or whatever our email address is, that people can send emails there or wherever the best way is so that we're not missing anybody. Awesome.

All right. Well, thank you for letting me brief you guys.

I'm laughing because I just thought if we all put QR codes on our front lawn...

You can volunteer for that.

Sorry. Justin, any final comments before we close the meeting?

Nope. I think I'm good.

All right. Thank you so much. Thanks for joining, Justin.

Yeah, really. We're closing a working session, too.

I don't have anything else on the agenda, so I just wanted to catch him before we adjourn. So thank you very much for taking the time to get caught up with the rest of us.

Yeah, no problem. Thank you all.

All right. Any other citizen or citizen commissioner comments before we adjourn? All