Planning & Zoning Commission - workshop

We're going to go ahead and open this budget workshop. Mr. Benton, would you?

Mr. Mayor, I'm going to let Ms. Garcia, the city clerk, do a roll call. Okay.

Mayor Jones?

Here.

Vice Mayor McPartland? Here. Council Member Nunn has not arrived yet. Council Member Dodd?

Here.

Council Member Matthews?

Present.

All right. Thank you so much for that.

All right, thank you Mr. Mayor. So good morning, we are here today for the first day of the city's fiscal year 26-27 budget workshop. The purpose of these two workshop days is to give city council an in-depth review of each department's requested budget and to provide an opportunity for discussion with each department head's operating personnel and CIP requests that are included in my recommended 26-27 budget. I would like to begin by thanking the finance department, our department heads, and staff for their hard work and dedication in preparing this proposed budget. I especially want to recognize Jennifer Smith, our assistant finance director, for the countless hours and commitment she devoted to finalizing the proposed budget documents. Jen is the rock star behind the scenes to get everything put together that comes in from departments and then goes into our meetings and finalizes all of the information for this document. She's the real hero in getting this out. The budget before you today is balanced at a millage rate of 3.4455, which is the same as the current fiscal year's rate. Even with no change in the millage rate, the city is projected to see an increase in ad valorem revenue due to anticipated growth in taxable property values. Over the next two days, staff is seeking city council's feedback so we can finalize a recommended millage rate presentation to the budget advisory committee on monday july 20th and then to city council on wednesday july 22nd at the july 22nd meeting city council will need to set the tentative millage rate for trim notification purposes as a reminder raising the millage rate above the trim notice rate later in the process can be both costly and time consuming In addition, recent changes in state law may affect the voting threshold required to adopt a rate above the rollback rate. Staff recommends that council remain mindful of those requirements as we move through the budget adoption process. So just a quick information on the new bill that was recently signed and put into effect by the state. We now use the rollback as our initial number. In the past, it was always your previous year's millage, and you could use that number and then go forward from there. Now the rollback is the beginning point. In order to go above rollback, you can go above rollback up to 110% of the rollback rate with a four out of five vote from city council. It has to be over 66%, so three out of five won't reach that threshold. So up to 110% above rollback, has to be approved by four council members when it comes that time. In order to go over 110% above rollback, it has to be a unanimous vote. So I just want to get that out there and clarify that because it has changed since how we've handled this previously. The proposed millage rate is nowhere close to even being 110%. So we're good with that. However, it will require four out of five if that is the millage rate that is set to go above the rollback. Provided today is a schedule showing potential millage rate options and their estimated effect on city revenues. Can we start the PowerPoint slide, please? So I provided this document to each of you in the PowerPoint slide, and this shows the proposed millage rate options and their estimated effect on city revenues. This is something we started showcasing last year in regards to how different millage rates could potentially affect our revenues as we go through this. This data also shows the portion of our millage that on a percentage basis funds the police department. It's a really hard way to look at this in showing a portion of millage. Even if we used a hundred percent of property tax revenue 100% it is not enough to fund the proposed FY27 police department total budget. So the total budget for FY27 is $9.562 million. Our total recommended millage rate of 3.4455 total collection is only $8.641 million. So there is a difference of somewhere close to a million dollars that just to showcase that property taxes is not even enough to fund our current police department budget. That is prior to any constitutional amendments. So we'll move back to this slide. So you'll see at the top fiscal year 25, then 26, and then proposed 27. The FY26 number is the approved budget amount from last year. You'll see in some future areas and discussions in this, the current amended budget is a little bit higher than our proposed FY27 budget. Our amended budget for FY26 is $20 million and almost $600,000. So you'll see it's a little bit higher there. And going down our police department portion of millage, once again, it's not an exact science because technically 100% of our millage could go to the police department, still not funded. But as using percentage numbers, we cover 46.5% of the police department, which would equate to 1.6034 in the proposed budget. Then down at the last graph, like I said, this is the millage rate options that we have that we presented. We draft budget is at the same millage rate as this year, 3.4455. We look at collection percentages at 96.7%. That's kind of a pretty standard number. We average around that 97, 96% on collections on an annual basis. So we have used 96.7 as that percentage number. And then you'll see the rollback rate is 3.3339. That would require about $280,000 in either cuts from the budget or use of general fund reserves. The other numbers as we go down, you know, really it's not necessary to raise the millage. We've got this budget balanced at the current rate based on the current economic and where we currently are within property taxes at the current moment. So this slide provides a breakdown of the funding categories utilized in general fund, which provides the personnel and operating funding for all city departments, except the enterprise funds. So I do want to highlight that. Yes, sir. Go ahead. I'll turn to Michael.

I want to go back to the 45% of the general fund. That's not millage. I mean, the police department millage, you've got one, five, five, two, eight. But in reality, if we're looking at ad valerum taxes, a hundred percent of our ad valerum taxes go to the police department. So the, and the millage rate is only for ad valerum taxes. So how does that equate back to 45%?

Yeah, so when you look at our general fund, and real quick, if we can go, I'm just going to go back and forth on slides real quick.

Yeah, but the general fund is not just Ed Valerian Taxes.

Correct, that's what I'm going to reference. So if you go to the next one, go back one page on your spreadsheet. Yeah, that's this one. The next one, go back the other way.

Okay, go back, all right.

On the bottom, yeah, that one. So what's shown on the screen, this is our entire general fund. So property taxes, utility taxes, licenses, permits, fees, charges for services, intergovernmental revenue, and other.

And the millage, this is where I was confused, and maybe I'm looking at this incorrectly. The millage rate applies only to our ad valorem tax assessment, not to all these other revenue sources. Yes, sir, correct. So it's not 1.55 mils of the millage rate that is going to the police department. It's all 3.5. 3.4455 that is going to the police department because that millage rate is not generating enough funds to cover the $9 million for the police department.

So you're going to be correct going forward because going forward, we're going to allocate 100% of property taxes to the police department.

But right now, today, we have to do that.

But in our current budget, we don't separate it. So in our current bullet budget, what we did was we took a percentage of expenditures and all of general fund and then applied it to the military.

I understand. I just don't want to send a bad signal out to the public that says that only 1.5528 mills will, will fund our police department. And if we go down to 1.5528 mills today.

will fund our police department correct that is not correct it takes all of our three point four four five five plus a million dollars to fund our police department yes so we'll clarify this before it goes to the budget committee we'll clarify this slide because you bring up a good point that that's that doesn't that one point five five two eight does not fund the entire the police department You're correct on that.

That whole line basically makes no sense in this chart. Maybe take it out. Because you're saying here that 45% of our general fund goes to the police department, which is correct.

Correct. Okay. But I think better what I would say is total property tax percentage currently in the current budget. But then what we can do is change it in FY27 to show 100%. A property tax is going to just add in 25.

It was a hundred percent.

Correct. But not in our budgeting mechanism. You're correct.

I understand, but it's a bad signal to the public who thinks that we can reduce our millage rate down to one point in 27 to 1.6 0 3 4 and still fund our police department. And we can't do that.

We'll clarify that better for the public as we go forward.

I want to make sure they're going to hear it. And if they're listening to this conversation, they're going to hear us say, that 1.6034 of our mills will fund our police department. And that's not correct. That is not correct. No, it is not. It takes all three point.

It takes more than the millage rate.

Well, actually, it takes more than 3.4455.

So what we'll do is we'll clarify that. We'll put the police department portion out of general fund as that 100% and say still does not fund completely, still a million dollar shortfall.

Our millage has not funded the police department for at least five years. Correct. Okay. All right. Yes, sir. That was confusing to me, and I thought it would be confusing to the public to see that.

We will get that clarified later.

All right. Thanks, Brian. Yes, sir.

So going back to the next slide, the general fund revenues type for FY26-27, this is how, as we just had the discussion, our general fund includes more than just property taxes, but property taxes do account for 43% of general fund revenues. And then we have utility tax that's 19%, licenses, permits, fees, and charges for services is 7%. Intergovernmental revenue is 18% and other is 13%. As we go to the next slide, this shows the funding sources through every department. And remember that the... stormwater building golf and airport are not included in general fund their enterprise funds likewise you'll see on a on a future slide that project capital projects really are not included in general fund as well general fund is only funding about seventy thousand dollars in capital projects in the city So this really showcases the police department's percentage and then is almost 50%. It's at 47%. And then you'll see as we go through the rest of the departments what the percentage is for the entire city that goes to each individual department. And then lastly this slide shows a comparison for everyone for general fund personnel cost of total expenditures. So total expenditures are 20 million out of general 20 million 549 thousand 746 dollars in general fund personnel. is equal to 15,925,410 dollars in general fund which means that operating personnel accounts for 77.4% of general fund operating is 22.1% which is a little bit over 4.5 million and as I just mentioned capital projects which are projects that we do paving all that is less than half of a percent in general fund that shows that we can't cut projects to reduce general fund. We only have $78,000 worth of projects in general fund. So the solution to any future amendment three result can't be we'll just reduce the projects because we have $78,000 worth of projects that doesn't account for what you'll see later in slides is our reduction. So you can take this PowerPoint off and I'll bring it back up in a minute. Thank you. So the proposed budget still includes a few areas of uncertainty. Staff has done its best to estimate these costs conservatively so that expenditures do not exceed the amounts currently shown. These items include property and liability insurance, employee retirement costs, And we did get everything finalized with health, dental, and those measures as well. So that's been identified. The estimated certifiable taxable value provided by the Indian River County Property Appraiser for FY26-27 is $2,619,894,238, which is projected to generate approximately 3.35% more in ad valorem tax revenue at the current millage rate. Any increase in the millage rate would be in addition to that growth. Given the current economic environment, our revenue projections remain conservative and are based on current year collection trends. You will see in the budget document that some revenue categories are projected to decline due to recent state legislative changes affecting certain licenses, permits, fines, and forfeitures, including a reduced percentage of court fine revenues. We also project a decline in state shared revenue which reflects a recent trend we expect to continue. So just want to clarify that the recent trend that we have shown this fiscal year and we projected to continue is that a decline in state shared revenue. Mr. Stewart has done an excellent job investing city funds to generate interest earnings. If you remember, we began this when Mr. Stewart was hired, we were keeping a lot of money in our general bank accounts, um, that we're getting a very low interest rate. He's done a really good job in investing in different areas. Um, however, due to market volatility and the closeout of certain projects, we have budgeted interest earnings at approximately the same level as last year. Staff will continue to monitor revenue performance and update projections as additional information becomes available in the coming months. The proposed FY26-27 general fund budget reflects a decrease of $18,577 compared to the amended FY26 budget, which is a 0.1% decrease overall. The proposed budget includes a reduction of 1.5 FTEs in MIS department. However, it also includes a new part-time civilian coat position within the police department. Currently, um, we use multiple officers in the cope division. Um, and our plan is in the future to hopefully have it approved in this budget to have a part-time civilian, uh, participate in the cope that could reduce the number of officers we have in that department. And we'll discuss that when we get to the police department. This budget also continues our effort to recognize the hard work and dedication of city employees. Staff continues to move the city forward in alignment with the vision established by city council through the strategic plan. Several requested increases within the general fund operating budget are directly tied to achieving the objectives identified in that strategic plan. Staff also continues to pursue grant funding aggressively so that projects can move forward with as little impact on the general fund as possible. provided you all with an updated spreadsheet of all of our grants that we currently have applied for so the budget document includes a summary of grants applied for over the past three years and identifies those that have been awarded or remain pending some of them we did get denied however in our agreement with our grant writer included in their initial upfront cost per grant is if we get denied one time they will automatically, as long as with our approval, they will apply for it a second time for us at no additional cost. So some of the ones that we've been denied, we have applied for a second time and on the spreadsheet that you all were given this morning, it identifies which ones were awarded, which ones are pending and which ones were denied and we've reapplied for. That summary does not include FDOT and FAA grants received by the airport. So I just wanna be clear on that. I also want to take a few minutes to briefly discuss potential future impacts related to the proposed property tax reform discussions. If you could put the slide back on, please. So I'll start that discussion off. This slide highlights the amount of each dollar that our residents pay in taxes that actually come back to the city of Sebastian. So this showcases out of every dollar that a resident business owner pays for in taxes, 36.1 cent goes to Indian River County, 34.8 cent goes to Indian River County Schools, 20.8 cent comes back to Sebastian, 4.6 cent goes to the hospital district, then you've got other taxing districts that that get 3.7 cent of every dollar so just wanted to clarify this as we begin i'm going to share a little bit of information on a future slides in regards to amendment 3 and property tax potential property tax reform so how is sebastian funded so this is where a lot of a lot of questions are are asked and and people a lot of people will reference well your budget's 50 million dollars Well, $50 million, only 8.6 million of that in last year's budget was from property tax. And then I also want to clarify our general fund. So our general fund, as you see on this slide, is specifically using unrestricted funds. That's property taxes, licenses and permits, utility services tax, franchise fees, and intergovernmental revenues. That is our general fund. Reminder, general fund means personnel and operating for every department in the city, except stormwater, building, airport, and golf course. Everything else we do, from roads, police department, code enforcement, finance department, human resources, city manager, city attorney, city clerk, city council, all of those sign shop every single it department every one of those is funded out of those unrestricted funds we can use those for however city council sees fit within our budget reminder out of that 20 million that we now can kind of look at that um 8.6 and and in this year's budget it's 8.7 million is currently property taxes so 8.7 million dollars is property taxes restricted funds This is where the majority, the heavy lift of all of our projects come from. You'll see discretionary sales tax, state legislature gives us direction on how we can possibly use that. It can really only be used for infrastructure projects and you'll see within our budget that's what we use discretionary sales tax for. Cannot be used to pay for staff, cannot be used to pay for police. Local option gas tax. This funding can be used for preservation work, sidewalks, things like that. That's what we completely have it used for. We're using it for roadway preservation, sidewalk improvements, and also I think railroad crossing. We have some maintenance on that that we have to do with our agreement with FEC. CRA community redevelopment fund so this this funding can only be used in the CRA and and that basically the the formula for that includes property value increases within the CRA district which is really our riverfront district the county pays the portion of that the city also contributes a portion of those funds that then go into the CRA that can only be used in the CRA and used in projects and things that happen within the CRA to improve that area Enterprise funds, these funds are self-sufficient. They fund themselves. This fund does, these enterprise funds do pay for personnel and staffing in those. That stormwater building airport and golf, but those are specific. I can't pay police department out of stormwater. I can't pay police out of building airport golf. I can't do that. They pay for their specific functions and they also pay for specific projects. Recreation impact fees, we get these when new homes are developed within the city and they go right back into our park system. We historically have used those to replace playgrounds, to do park improvements on an annual basis. So that's what that funding is used for in that. So I just wanted to give some information because I know a lot of people say, well, you can cut a $50 million budget by whatever the implications are of property tax. It's not a $50 million budget when we look at that. It's really a $20 million budget, but then even further down, it's an $8.7 million budget. So just want to clarify that.

Brian, can I ask one thing? Yes, sir. Talking about local option gas tax, you used a very important word that I want to clarify, which is preservation of roads. That does not include complete replacement of a road, correct?

That is correct. Preservation is our Cape Seal microchipping, that element. It's not mill and overlay. That's not preservation. Anytime you start to disturb the road, that then is construction, infrastructure improvements. Preservation is what is currently there. We can do some mastic repairs and things like that. That's what you'll see over in the Schumann Drive area. A lot of those neighborhoods there that have the curb system, we're able to do preservation work in those areas.

Okay. I think that's important because people understand that we're using it, and they don't necessarily understand what that word preservation means, and it's a very strict guideline from the state's perspective. So if we have to replace a road, we can't use gas tax for that. We're limited. The state has us limited in so many things, but even something they allow us to use it on, it's very restricted on what they allow us to use it on, even in that.

That's correct, and I do want to give a little bit of a number figure. So discretionary sales tax, we bring in about $5.1 million on an annual basis. That's what pays for our capital projects, a good portion of those. Local option gas tax brings in $716,000. So it's not like it brings in a big number. We've actually seen this number starting to reduce. We think it's partially due to some of the electric vehicles. I know there's been some discussion with League of Cities and also at the state You know, how do we make up for the electric vehicles? They're not paying their portion into local option gas tax. That's really gone nowhere. But I think that is playing a part in our reduction in funding and local option gas tax as well. Thank you.

Yes, sir.

All right so we'll move on to the next slide so once again this is highlighting where 8.7 million dollars is coming from so you'll see the yellow portion is homestead property tax that's a key word we're getting ready to discuss homestead property tax and non homestead so you'll see in the city property taxes that are brought in 57% of that is homestead property tax. Um, I also want to throw in an interesting figure here. Um, when you look across the entire state of Florida, the entire state, 411 municipalities, the city of Sebastian ranked number one. This isn't a good thing. Number one, um, in total taxable value percent impact with a $250,000 exemption. It was four 44.8% of our total taxable value that is lost. with a $250,000 exemption. We are the highest in the state in that number. There's no other municipality in the entire state that is over 44.8% in their total taxable value percent impact with a $250,000 exemption. So just wanna, we are, we're heavily residential. We've been a community that's been that way. And we're seeing the results of that in some of the information that's now starting to come out in regards to Amendment 3. Um, so amendment three proposed property tax reduction. So this is a factual, these are just facts. Um, this data, um, for potential loss impact was taken directly from the July 10th, 2026 Florida state revenue estimating conference report. So as bills pass the legislature, as they start to be discussed in the legislature, Typically the legislature has these reports before they make a final decision. That's the whole goal of these reports is that they get the reports from the state, um, department that provides this factual information to legislators when they make those decisions. This data was just, uh, just provided July 10th. Um, and so the number, the number that's used for the estimated, uh, potential loss is directly from this document. that was provided by the state. So what you'll see here is you'll see that 44% of the 3.5 million is non-homestead property tax. That number I've kept the same just for the sake of I don't know how those numbers play into the future. So I think that those numbers would probably be decreased a little bit, the 3.5. but I don't have that information, so I just kept it the same as it is currently because you also got to remember the bill also takes into account not just year one in 27-28, year one reduction or increase in homestead exemption to $150,000, and then in year two, 28-29, an increase to $250,000 exemption. It also reduces your non-homestead assessment cap from 10% to 5%. So I think you're gonna see some impacts on that yellow portion, but I didn't include that in this presentation. So as we go back, to the previous one, 4.6 to 57% in homestead property tax. In year number one, the city of Sebastian will lose $2,779,077. This is provided directly from the state. We did get some numbers from the property appraiser's office, but I'm using the state's numbers because that's what they provided to the legislature. And then, so then we would go from 4.6 million down to being able to bring in $1.8 million, 22% of our property taxes. So just wanted to highlight that. That's in year number one. As we go to year number two, FY 28-29, once again, I kept the... non-homestead sorry the yellow there's a mistake it should say potential 2028 non-homestead property tax that's in the yellow it's 3.5 million dollars and then you see once again directly from the state revenue estimating conference report our loss in property tax revenue is over what we currently bring in this year which is a little bit less than or 4.6 is what we bring in now this will be higher than that actually And so I did account for, um, some, uh, just keeping a little portion of homestead property tax up top with the 3%. That may, that number may be a little high. Um, but I wanted to make sure that it was included in, in the figures as we go forward. But currently, as we bring in currently, um, in 2526 homestead 4.6 million would be completely eliminated by, uh, 28, 29 on this, as this data shows.

You know, a point I want to make that sits at 42% right now, but that's assuming that all of the non-homesteaded properties, the people that have two homes, won't see an opportunity to say, I've already lived here that period of time. I'm going to homestead my property here if I can save all my property taxes. or a huge chunk of their property taxes so i think that and i know someone will say that's guessing well that's called forecasting forecasting is what we have to do we have to prepare for the possibility of the future and unfortunately uh everything is is a guess at this point because Until it happens, you won't know exactly what happens, but I guarantee there will be people that homestead here because of this and do it because they've already lived here. They've already lived here the amount of time in this new proposal, whether that's deemed constitutional or not, that'll be for the courts to decide. But I see that number going down and it being harder on us in the future, personally.

So in essence, what we're saying is that the assessed value, not the appraised value, which is the top number for the appraiser, but the assessed value of the total number, I think there's 9,000 some homesteaded properties and 9,298, that all 9,298 of those properties is assessed at or less than $250,000.

The median home assessed value in the city of Sebastian, the median for homesteaded property is only like $170,000. So in reality-

because Sebastian is unique and it's in its population, all of our homesteaded property tax value will disappear in 28, 29, as of January 1 of 29 or 28.

That is correct. Okay. Yep. And once again, this is based on the state numbers. I think there's a lot of, you know, numbers going back and forth. This is directly from the state. And like I said, it came out Friday. from the state, so I was able to update this information.

And that's how come we're number one in the state in impact on this, is because of our population mix and the value of the property within the city. Correct. Yes, sir.

I can tell you that we are the hardest hit in Indian River County by far. It's not even close when you look at it in regards to the impact to our budget within the county. and I would say surrounding areas as well. I know Palm Bay gets hit pretty hard, and then I think it's Palm Coast. There's some different areas, Port St. Lucie, but it's, you know, in our county, we are by far the hardest hit, I can tell you. For instance, Vero, I looked at their data. I think year one, they lose like a million, but they also generate 20 million in ad valorem taxes. They may lose a little bit over a million in year one. By year five, they're only losing $2.5 million. We're losing more than that in year one. Right. So those numbers are just not to get off on other places. That just shows the impact in Sebastian, not the impact in other areas. That's why I don't know that, you know.

Right. That's why some of the other areas, they have a lot of commercial. We don't have a lot of commercial. Correct. Other cities, they also have utilities. That's how Vero is going to recoup some of theirs by adding utility fee hikes and stuff like that. But we just don't have that. We're a bedroom community, and it's definitely going to affect us in the future for sure.

Yeah, and then I've got two slides I'm going to show. I'm not showing it in regards to the property. It's more for purposes of how assessed values factor in here. Obviously, you can see the property taxes that are paid, but I took two homes that I knew the people had lived in since back in 2016, 2018, somewhere in that range, and then kind of knew that those homes had stayed in the same home ownership. It's not a... it also is typical of home values in the city when you look at the values from like going on zillow and looking at this estimate which is a reasonable number a lot of times they sell for higher than what this estimate shows so it's really shown as a reasonable number in the real estate area so we'll look at this one in 2018 the home was originally purchased in 2016 for 175 000 The current Zestimate is $296,800. So a good number, that's close to the 300,000 number that we're seeing kind of average in Sebastian. But here's the thing I want to show you. So in 2018, the assessed value, remember it was bought in 2016 for 175. The assessed value in 2018 by the property appraiser was only a little over $135,000. With the $50,000 exemption, it really was taxable on $85,000. Um, then let's jump forward to the most recent property tax bill, 2025. Remember they paid in 2016, nine years earlier, 175,000 for the home. The assessed value is now only 162,000. So I think, you know, the, the references that my home value has increased and so have my taxes. Well, your home values are, are currently closer to 300. you're only assessed at 162 because of Save Our Homes, and you're taxable, what you're paying the city is taxed on 112,000. So I wanted to kind of show that number. And then here's one that's a little bit higher. I guess that our average is somewhere in the range from like an estimated range. We're in the 300 to 350,000 range. Home originally purchased in 2013 for $149,900. Current Zestimate is $337,500. In 2018, they were assessed $127,000. Taxable was $77,000 with the $50,000 exemption. So now let's jump forward to 2025, which is 12 years after they purchased it. They are just now paying the assessed value of what they originally purchased the home on, which is 151 assessed. They originally purchased it in 2013 for $149,900. But then even with the $50,000 exemption, they're only being taxable on $100,000. So both of these examples are really good examples of the city as a whole, because this person, you know, their taxable their assessed numbers are less than that 150 and the 250 number in those figures so when you start to really look at those things this this is kind of a good example of how it's going to look in the city you know looking at the taxes 347 dollars on that one specific right there to the city of Sebastian yep all the services we provide to the city

It cost that homeowner $347. It didn't even pay for road maintenance. I mean, just from a larger perspective. I mean, I know people talk about their taxes and how we're wasting them or how we're not. Literally, on this one here, in 10 years, it went from $244 to $347. I'm sorry, from $18 to $25, so seven years. And you're paying us $347 a year now.

for what we provide that just means save our homes is working it does it works it has worked for me i've been in my home forever i don't pay mine fits along with this category with the lowest ones on here because i've been in my home a long time over 35 years now so save our homes has worked for me um but it's working i don't want to talk about the tax to the city like you just spoke Well, I'm sorry. I'm one of those that fit that boat, so I've only been paying a little bit of money. Because I've been in my home for a long time, been in the city for a while, and that's what's most important here. And this is why this thing is going to really hurt us here in the future if things go on.

Agreed. Can you pull the slide off now? We're good. Thank you. Thank you. All right. So lastly... uh, provided to you all today was a new document that I, I didn't provide last year. Um, but it was a copy of the department's original capital project request list. So you'll see, that's the one, um, let me see who has one that I can, can you hand me that one right there? Just so, yep. So it's this one, right? Nope. That's the grant document. This is the capital document here. And thank you for pleading on a bigger piece. So I've tried to make it as big as I could. Um, So this, I want to be clear on this. This is for you all's knowledge, your knowledge of what the original request is. This is not what is recommended.

So we can compare this to the CIP and see what you guys pulled out. Correct.

So you'll be able to see, you'll be able to see some of them. We just changed the funding mechanism because some things like I was, I'll say in that original one, the airport projects were, think we're coming out of DST we then were able to move some of those in the airport so you'll see some different funding mechanisms there's a Schumann lot apart project for Schumann tennis court lighting that was in DST completely that we pulled a portion out of rec impact fees we reduced the scope of the project so you'll see some of those changes but you can directly compare that to the CIP sheet that's in the budget document but I just felt like it was a good number of for you all to see the amount of requests that came in and the ones that were taken out by me so that you know what I cut in regards to projects. So I think that was a good one. And it can be compared to page 154 of the budget document. So when you go to sit down and look at those, they can compare directly from that. But like I said that since cut quite a few of the projects I felt it was important for you all to see the items that I recommended That we do not include in this year's budget So that that's kind of my overview any questions before we jump we have a general discussion.

Yes, sir Primarily I just like to get a feel for the way the council wants to move forward. We have two options with this year's budget first option is Put our blinders on been no change to our taxable revenue for the year we can move forward given the fact that we're going to collect the same amount of money that is anticipated in our revenue stream which is in in the in the budget document and that that that is one perspective at how we look at each department another perspective is that i don't know there's probably better than a 50 50 chance might probably something like 70 30 or even 80 20 that this thing is going to pass. People are going to go to the polls on the first Tuesday in November very upset about the cost of eggs. And they're going to see an opportunity to reduce their cost. That may well drive it across the finish line for passing. So do we look at this year's budget in preparation for the fact that next year we're going to have $2 million less coming in and we can't change the police budget because the statute doesn't allow us to do that. We can't change.

I want to correct you on that. Cause I don't want that information getting out here. We, the statute only requires that we fund police. It doesn't state that we have to fund it to the current level that is not stated. Okay. So I just want to make sure that people understand that there are potential impacts to the police department with any Property tax reduction.

I think it's too early. I think it's too early for Sebastian to do what I just heard the county do and start to send out the scare taxes. We're going to lay off 88 people. We're going to do this. We're going to do this. We're going to do that. It's too early for us to do that. Truly, I believe it's too early for us to do that. That's something we'll have to possibly deal with next year. There's also options. If we think seriously about what is going to happen in Tallahassee, In January of next year, assuming it passes, they're going to put together an implementation bill and they're going to make changes to the whole process when they do that because they're not bound by anything except for the increases in the homestead exemption. They can change all kinds of things. They probably won't attack some of the issues that need to be brought up, like, for example, allowing a municipality to spend all the money they get the way they need to spend it, discretionary sales tax revenue for For example, no longer having their impacts put on it. That will be March of 28 when that happens probably. I don't know that they'll deal with that in the next legislative session. But in the 28th legislative session, there's going to be enough municipalities going bankrupt in the state that they're going to have to do something. And they can't change that constitutional amendment. It's already done. So they're going to have to do something as these municipalities start to file bankruptcy. Because there are municipalities in this state that are not going to make it through this. They don't have the reserves we do. I mean, we literally could absorb $2.5 million worth of lost revenue in our reserve account right now if we have to. The county could absorb $9 million or $10 million or $20 million worth of lost revenue in their reserves if they choose to. So within the second year, and I know you're going to, I know you're smiling because you don't, and I understand. I've been in a chair of a CEO trying to deal with the board. I know I wouldn't want to change the reserves either. i'm not recommending we do that all i'm saying is that there are a lot of factors that have to come to bear and that that is going to be march of 28 when that happens when the legislation goes into session and they realize that there's been a big screw-up here because quite frankly most of them don't think this will pass so they think there's gonna they're gonna realize there's been a big screw-up we did something that's messed up this whole state now how do we get out of that there'll be a lot of politicking going on on changing the way that they look at controlling either that or do away with the cities, but change the way they control the cities. So the question comes about is that how do we look at this budget? I mean, when I went through this budget, the first time through, I looked at it like, okay, it's a normal year. And I didn't see a whole lot in here that was not needed and perfectly legitimate and so forth, okay? Then I said, okay, I'm going to go back and look now, like, oh, I need to prepare for this. Massive loss in revenue that could happen to us. So are there things in here, for example, that we don't necessarily have to do right now or things in here that we could, we could slide to the future. I didn't find a ton of that either. So, you know, just, just, you know, I'm not going to propose that we make major changes to this thing. Cause I didn't find a ton of it in there, but I think as a council, we need to make it, we need to make a strategic decision. How do we begin to approach this process? The reason I say that is that as a staff, you have a totally different view of the whole thing than we do. And it's our job to make sure that we come up with a view that represents the residents and that we kind of pass that view on to the staff. And I think that we need to make a determination internally among the five of us as to how we want to address this before we get into talking to each department head. That that's my thought and you guys come forward and let me know.

I do have one other, uh, clarification. Uh, the, uh, the bill states that there are priorities and the police department is one of the priorities. Uh, infrastructure is a priority. Uh, there's four or five others. There's no order of operations. It says we must use the remainder of our property tax revenue to support these things. It doesn't say this one first, then this one, then this one. It just says these are the five. When the property tax revenue is gone, then you support the best you can. There's nothing that says you have to use other money to support those things, just the property tax revenue. So we're tied on some things. Police department is in our charter, so we can't get rid of our police department, as an example. People say, just roll it into the sheriff's department. That requires a charter amendment and a public vote to get rid of our police department as a point. So while you saw the numbers for the property tax revenue, I mean, in a couple of years, there's only $300,000 debt. that funds like two police officers, not even that, a police officer and a half maybe for that year. So it's gonna be very interesting to see where we're able to come up with this money to cover those things. I just, that's my only point. And I agree with you, we need to have a strategy, but we need to definitely rely on the people that are looking at all of the money, the dollars, and giving us the direction of where we should go.

Yeah, I don't disagree with what you're saying, Assuming this thing passes, if it does, then next year at this time, there's going to be a group of people sitting in this room on a two-day session trying to figure out where they can find $2.5 million and what they don't fund. The question is, do we prepare for that through this budget cycle or do we disregard it in this budget cycle? And do we move forward under the fact that the revenue is exactly what we're getting and we move forward on that cycle? I'm asking for a strategic discussion, not a tactical discussion. I don't really care what's in the bill. I care about the fact that in November the voters are going to vote on whether they reduce their taxes and they reduce the revenue we have. We're going to have to deal with that next year. The city is going to have to deal with that next year. The question comes about is strategically, how does the council want to address this? I mean, I can look through this document. I can tell you right now I probably only have three questions that are minuscule. They did a great job of putting it together based on our current revenue assumptions. Right. We understand what the possibility of the revenue assumptions in 26, 27, I mean 27 and 28 and 28 and 29. They're not what we have currently in revenue instructions. Do we view this document related to that information or do we just view it the way it is? I think the council needs to make that decision before we move forward with it.

My discussion with the city manager related to what you're talking about I know they've done a great job at reducing already this year. And the question is, by us preparing for this amendment, do we put ourselves in a worse situation with all of the protections the state's putting in for increases later? And the question is, if we reduce too much and then they put all these protections in place because they're working on putting every protection they can to keep us from finding money. other places. What kind of protections? They're reducing the non-homesteaded raise. They're making it so we have to have a 5-0 vote for above a certain percentage. We know all of that. Well, no, that's what I'm saying. Well, I don't think they're done. I think they're going to put more things in place to keep us from finding a way to get ourselves out of this hole. So the question I would ask is, do we put ourselves in a worse situation by cutting it and preparing for it now than we do waiting until then. I mean, it's going to hit us one, two, three years down the road anyways. So I guess it really doesn't matter. It's either pushing the cart down the road.

It's the difference between strategic planning and knee jerk reaction. That's my opinion. Do we strategically plan through this budget cycle or do we wait until next year and react? The political pendulum, Chris, is going to swing.

Oh yeah.

You're going to find in March of 2028, You're going to find a different political perspective in Tallahassee because they're going to realize what they've done if it passes. I agree. You're going to find a totally different political perspective in Tallahassee. They're not going to be looking at how to destroy cities. They're going to be looking at how not to be responsible for destroying cities because that's what they do at state and federal government levels. They don't want to be responsible. Right. So they're going to be trying to figure out, how do we not be the politicians responsible for destroying half the cities, 200 or so of the 400-some cities in the state? How do we become not politically responsible for that? Well, we have to do something. So there's going to be lots of forces, League of Cities, League of Counties, there's going to be lots of forces politicking to try to swing that pendulum. And it's going to swing. I mean, that's the nature of politics. And this is politics. It will swing. So it's going to swing. The question in my mind is not that. And what you're saying is that you want to view this as though nothing's going to change. Let's view this the way it is. And I respect that and understand that. And I'm just asking for the council to make the decision as to how they want to approach that. I think the council needs to make that decision. You were on before you.

Sorry about that. Yeah, I honestly think that we need to plan for if this thing does happen in the future, and I think staff is already there. This is why we've cut where the budget is now. This is why we're not going to have to raise the millage rate. Brian and his staff has already looked into that and already projecting towards next year when we know that that's going to pretty much double our losses for next year so we're losing 2.1 or whatever 2.8 this year and next year the second year we're going to lose 4.6 so they've got to be prepared for that eventuality of that 4.6 million just like we're prepared for this and I think we should be looking at those numbers just like staff is because That's more likely than not going to happen for now.

I also agree with that because I think the smoother the transition into going into this, the inevitable that's going to happen, the better the public and we as a community are going to be able to handle that. We need to, and I think that we're on the right, but I do think that we need to have a strategic plan to go into this to make it a smoother transition.

I heard the consensus that we're just going to go forward.

Well, I do want to clarify, this is not going as if nothing happened because they're already preparing. This budget is already a preparation for what's coming with the cuts.

If there was no constitutional amendment on the November budget, I believe that Brian would have presented a budget exactly like this. I believe that. He's never been someone trying to raise our taxes and spend our money. He's very fiscal. I disagree with what you just said. I think that Brian has presented a budget that he would have presented if there was no constitutional amendment out there. He's done the best job he can in managing the city's money. His staff has done the best job they can in managing the city's money. I don't disagree with that at all. I'm telling you that this is the budget that I would, quite frankly, would have expected to see even if that constitutional amendment wasn't out there. I don't disagree with anything that was said. I just wanted to make sure that we're comfortable moving forward because I've got a lot of questions that I'm not going to ask because of the consensus to us view this the way you guys would like to view it. I'm just not going to ask those questions, which is fine. I have no problem. I just don't want to ask them if it's not a consensus that we need to go that direction.

Yeah. I mean, can I, I just want to provide a little bit of information on things that we've already done, um, in preparation. So yes, we have cut this proposed budget down to what we feel as though is necessary. However, we've taken some additional steps that are small steps, but I think they'll set us up for, for success. in the near future. So open positions currently are frozen unless it's determined by myself that it's an essential position. What do I consider like an extraordinary position? So like one position we have currently open is our crime scene technician position. Well, we only have two and one person can't be on call 24 seven. I have to have two employees in crime scene because they are on call every single day of every single year. So that was one position came available. I said, we need to feel that position. Maintenance worker positions come open right now. People are leaving. We're not feeling them. Um, and we're, we're freezing those positions. They're budgeted, but they're frozen until we see what the results are of November. So that when we get into that situation, we can assess, evaluate the positions that are frozen. determine whether they need to be filled or determine whether those are positions that could potentially be eliminated in a frozen capacity. That's kind of step number one. Number two, if you look and you look at discretionary sales tax as an example, don't know what the legislature is gonna hold for us in a few years. So I'm gonna go ahead and start to plan as though changes could potentially come in the future. We're not spending 100% of discretionary sales tax this year of revenue. We're not spending all the revenue. because we're holding back a little bit of that funding just in case of the unknown in the future and we will do that again next year if the amendment passes so some of those things are happening but once again DST at the current time doesn't help us in the situation of general fund could it potentially in the future that's why we're going to hold back a little bit of dollars and keep those they're still there we look I think it was the past two years we've spent more than we brought in in DST because of the amount of road paving we've done so in the future we just kind of can catch back up in those things if if we have those dollars to only be used for infrastructure but those are a few of the things that we've done um you know and in this budget we i can tell you i mean when we started we were i think over a million or a million and a half dollars in the hole in general fund um and we had to cut those items and we've eliminated we've only we have we started you know um looking at any position requests that were made and evaluated those. And because last thing I wanna do is bring on, create new positions, bring people on and then say, hey, unfortunately that position has got to go in the future. So those are things that we're doing on the backside to try to help with this, but also wanted to make sure we provided factual data directly from the state so that our residents can see the impact to Sebastian. And that's what we wanna do.

So my last question. Yes, sir. When you entered this budget cycle, did you enter the budget cycle with the assumption that you were not going to propose a increase to the ad valorem tax millage rate?

Yes, sir.

Okay. Which means that this budget, which is balanced at the current millage rate, is exactly the budget that you would propose because you were not going to propose an increase in the millage.

That's correct. I mean, we approached it that way, but we approached it in the manner that we cut things that i felt we probably should have included in this budget so not to say that i went in mentally thinking i'm not raising the millage that was my mental approach um and and that's how we kind of budgeted this one out that's fine i look at this this is a tight budget like all the budgets that i've been a part of here and i'm constantly to take chris's word forecasting

looking out over the next couple of years. I've been waiting for the property values to go the other way. I mean, they have been going up, up, up the whole time, and it's gotta reverse. Also, I don't like to pop into the reserve fund, because that's like cracking the piggy bank. Once you crack the piggy bank, you can't put it back in. And we're only one storm away from that whole thing being utilized.

I mean, that's another discussion. Right. That you won't like it when I make it. Yeah, that's all right. Because I'm all in favor of a rollback.

I hear you. I know. We're going to take a 10-minute recess. Okay, let's go on with finance department. They've been here a long time. We're going to do a 10-minute recess, right?

And then we'll come back with city manager department first. Yeah, there we go. And then we'll go into finance and non-departmental. So a 10-minute recess. Okay. I read it.

I read it.

we own okay here we go who we have mr. Benton all right Thank You mr. mayor so we'll get started city managers budget is up first And so just a little bit of information. The city manager's budget reflects an overall increase of 5.8% compared to the amended FY26 budget. This increase is primarily due to salary and benefit cost increases. One of the bigger areas is Karen Miller has assumed the responsibilities of airport director while continuing to serve in her current role. in the city manager's office. This was part of a strategic move that I have made. As you all know, Mr. Sabo, our airport director, resigned a little over a month ago, or effective a little over a month ago. Instead of going out and hiring an airport director, not knowing kinda how the whole property tax thing was gonna lay out, I made the decision to appoint Karen as the acting airport director. she's also still serving as her capacity as city engineer and um special projects within my department um so as a result of that her compensation was adjusted to reflect those additional responsibilities i believe five percent or six percent do you remember jen five it was five percent um she was added to her salary to assume those airport director responsibilities um so that's included in here that that's shown in here however we then pull money out of the airport into general fund to pay her portion that a portion of that salary so you'll see the increases a hundred percent are all shown in my and city manager's budget but we do get funding that from the airport that goes back into the general fund five percent The percentage of her salary?

Yes. It's going to be charged to the Enterprise Fund.

So we'll get that information for you when we go to airport discussion, but it is a percentage of her salary is poured out of that. Okay.

I was just wondering, like, it's immiscuous.

So that will be included in some of the administrative costs that includes HR, finance department for the airport, but we can get that percentage for you. So just wanted to clarify that. There are no capital requests within the city manager's department budget. The operating budget increased by $1,820. This is primarily due to higher costs for dues, memberships, and training and education. On page 19, and sorry, I'll start giving you all the page number when we start at the department. I apologize, I didn't do that on this one. You'll see the same positions are shown in there that we currently have within the city manager's office. And just wanted to provide that information. And then as we go into the operating budget, You'll see the total increase was $1,820. And once again, a lot of that kind of goes into training and education and dues and memberships. And then we adjusted some other line items to try to minimize that increase in the operational budget. So any questions on the city manager's budget? I went through that a little quickly. I can go through it by every single area if you want me to. I just, we had spent a lot of time in other areas.

Just for clarity, I noticed throughout the whole thing here, excuse me, just for clarity, I noticed throughout the entire book that I'd want to know where everybody's going to travel because there's a lot of travel in per diem that's been added.

Yep.

And then on the dues and membership, what are we, just if we could, what are we memberships of? And then there, when we get into some of this other stuff, there's some, just some things that like legal ads, who's responsible and who's the responsibility for that. And because we're pulling out of a lot of different areas, but like, I believe it was under the city clerk. There's a $10,000 legal ad fee and then everywhere. So if we can mainstream as to where those are going and why who's, you know, whose budget is responsible or whose line item budget and that kind of thing, just kind of put these down into perspective.

So, um, like traveling per diem, that is everything you'll see in operating is specific to the department. Um, just a quick answer on the clerk item. If it's an ordinance, That is paid through the clerk's office for the legal ad. Is my mic working? So that's paid for out of the clerk's office. There is also legal ad money in community development because if they get certain things that aren't necessarily ordinances but still need to go out for legal ads, they pay for that out of their budget. So they kind of go between the two departments depending on the city-wide reach or whether it's a departmental legal ad that needs to go out. So that's why you see legal ads in two different departments.

Okay, and I understand that. And they're paying for that, but who's responsible for it?

community development do their own or does it go to the city clerk and she handles it or how does the process work so a lot of things go from the city uh from community development drafts the information goes through the attorney's office and my office for review and then the clerk then submits it uh typically it isn't the the legal ad sometimes it's drafted by the clerk but a lot of times it's drafted from community development it drafts the legal ad just sometimes the dollars come out of the clerk's office as opposed to the community development but back to city managers budget so I'll give you some information travel and per diem we've got a PWA for Karen Miller League of Cities that I attend which is the annual conference and the legislative conference because I participate on a legislative committee every year that that conference so those two are there I've got dollars assigned in here for Tallahassee trips. This year I did not go to Tallahassee. The year before I did go. So those are kinda year to year things depending on what's happening within the legislature. So that's shown in there for me. I've got the FCCMA, which is the Florida City County Manager Association Annual Conference for me. There is a FSA, oh, sorry, that's in stormwater, let's see. Government social media conference is Avery and PIO training is Avery. Both of those are Avery. So that's where you get to the $7,200 in travel and per diem, those conferences. There are some conferences for Karen as well. However, we utilize stormwater budgeting for those because those, come out of our stormwater conferences for the engineering side. And then there is another conference for Avery, but it's social media and law enforcement that's paid for out of the police department. Um, because she is, Avery is kind of servicing. They're, they're a little bit different, the police department, the city side. So she's servicing both, both sides for us on that. So that's, um, travel and per diem. Then you ask about, um, dues and memberships.

And the reason I'm asking is because if you, and just in the three years, and I didn't mean to cut you off there, but, In the three years we've gone from under a thousand to $7,200 and 2,000 or 2,400 to $6,100. Just that, that kind of jump.

So you got, so, so one of the things is you got to remember back in 2223, there was the city manager and his assistant. That's all that was in the department. Then we've gradually added the special projects director and city engineer. We've added a social media coordinator. So those positions were added. And so since they were added in 23, 24, that's where you then see the following years when those conferences start to, to really ramp up in that area. Um, and I'll say the previous city manager did not go to, did not result, did not participate in FCCMA, which is the Florida city county managers association. Um, I do, I get a lot out of the conference. I get a lot out of like, I'm going down June, July 29th. We're having a, uh, seminar down in Palm beach gardens. That is the, um, entire east coast, uh, city county managers that we're going to, to talk about property tax. It doesn't cost me anything to go to it. It's a free seminar, but those are things that I have the ability to go to, be involved with, and also do webinars and things like that through it. Okay. So that's my involvement. But that's why you see the big change in the amounts is when we increase the staffing levels in the department and then the travel associated with those. Okay. And then we'll go down to, so dues and memberships, that's kind of the same thing, and so is training and education. Those same areas that I just talked about are in there. My League of Cities for myself, and then Avery is also a member because she does... the social media portion in league of cities icma which is the national level city manager association we include in that canva editing software and then issu is our biggest expense in dues and memberships that is what our newsletter the function of our newsletter the software that we develop our newsletter that's on our website That's called ISSU, and that's $2,400 a year. So that's a big expense that comes out of dues and memberships. And then you have FMCA, State of Florida Professional Engineer, TCPOM, so we can do all the articles, and then FMCA, which is the Florida Municipal Communicators Association. That's out of dues and memberships. That's where we get to the 6175. And then any other questions? Let's see. On that, anybody else have any questions? Any more other questions on the... those areas and sorry I normally go through those I just we were running a little behind and that's why but I have no problem explaining it I can so we when we get our annual budgets every department submits a detailed line item of every single one of these accounts so from a level of my level we can look all the way down into every single line item and what's included to give you, like I said, travel and per diem, it says the annual amount, the description of what it is, and then it rounds up into the total. So that's how far we get down into the line items. We go very far all the way down to pretty much every expenditure. Any questions on the city manager budget? Any others? All right, so now we will move on to finance department and then we will do non-departmental.

So finance is going to be on page 30.

Starts on page 30. And I'll bring Mr. Stewart up here and allow him to kind of kickstart and get you started.

All right. So we'll jump into the finance budget. As you know, our finance department is made up mainly of personnel, and we do carry some operating expenses. such as travel and per diem, different softwares that we're currently paying for, and some computer supplies and doing memberships, things like that. So comparing the finance budget in the sheets we have compares it to our current year's 26 projected ending expenditures. So you'll look and see personnel services increased by $3,900 compared to that number, and that's primarily due to pay increases and the COLAs. And also operating expenses increased by $52,996. However, if you look at the prior year's budget, we've actually decreased that number, and the reason is when you're comparing it to projected expenditures, we put some things in last year's budget that we didn't accomplish or do. You know, we have ongoing projects such as the chart of accounts redesign and the new budget software that we're currently in the middle of. So we didn't want to take on some of these additional tasks that we budgeted for. And some of those would be like modernizing our AP system and paying bills electronically, which we are, you know, Facing a mandate, let's see, it's HB967 that requires us to be able to take online payments for everything, and currently we're not set up for that. So that's something that we did put into this budget, you know, some of those type programs that we want to see. But we want to first accomplish and finish the tasks that we've already started out, like the chart of accounts and the new software. So those are the basic numbers of the finance budget. Any major changes would be like other contractual services. While it increased slightly over projected, we're actually down compared to last year's budget. And traveling per diem, Mr. Benton had cut out any out of state travel. coming up, that's another thing that he's doing to try and hold costs back in case of future years. So that budget decreased slightly. The R&M operating equipment and finance budget increased slightly. And that's going to be made up of our copier, our Tyler Munis, which is our ERP system software. The new Unibudget software and currently looking at, well, up in other contractual services actually is the AP automation software that we're budgeting for in the coming year.

Is that going to change next year? Are we going to see a difference in that on the operating expenses for the budget software? Is that going to increase or decrease next year? This is already bought and paid for?

Some of them have been. Well, you had certain costs related to these, like the chart of accounts redesign has mostly been paid for, and the new budget software, the implementation cost has been paid for in the current year, but we'll have an ongoing renewal cost in future years. So that's what you're seeing is those larger implementation costs hit. you know, the current year's budget. So this coming budget won't see those costs. So you'll see a decrease in those softwares. But you'll also, these newer softwares that we haven't implemented yet, they'll have those upfront implementation costs associated with them. Does that answer your question?

No, no, that does. I was just concerned about that. And I know that there's always fees associated with maintaining the software and stuff like that. But over the Um, over the years, that software changes too, and we may have to go to a newer system. Um, but we're not projecting any of that right now.

No. And I, and I will say, you know, we're not projecting to have to go to a newer system currently in what we have proposed in this budget, but I will say we had hoped to have the budget software up and fully functional by now, but our chart of accounts redesign. was very detailed and went all the way, we had to basically redesign every single chart of account that we have in the city. We were using a short form code and we needed to go to the standard code, which is a longer one. And so that ended up taking a lot longer than we anticipated. However, I know, I believe it's in a month in August, the middle of August, they are coming in and making the transition finally to go to the new chart of account system. So then once that's in place, we can rock and roll with the budget software, and our plan will be to, it should be up and functioning for next fiscal year to have the new budget software. So you see it in the same format this year, but that will be drastically changing, and hopefully that will help us with some of the state mandates of having to supply some data to our website. So hopefully the new software will assist with that as well.

Yes, and like I said, the budget software, we've done as much as we can to implement and start the new budget software, but it's being held up by the charter accounts redesign, which is a Tyler project. And the reason it's being held up is because our Tyler ERP system currently had a lot of issues that were never addressed. So I'm having to go back and fix a lot of old issues from the past that we didn't know existed. It's been quite a task, but like he said, we're scheduled on August 12th to convert the system, do a training, and move forward with the new account codes, which will help us build systems on top of that. Currently, if they're random codes, you can't put a system in place, like a new budget software or any other software, to pull data from these account codes without having some consistency in those codes. So we're in the process of doing that.

The dues and membership that 2526 projected is, you know, $2,900 dramatically lower than what you budgeted. Is there a reason for that or is that being caught up this year? What's the? Is there some organization?

Okay, so there's a new, yes, sir. There's a new, it's called the Tyler Pace Program that's being put in here for $10,000. And that's something we talked about last year. It's a program you can subscribe to with Tyler where they will come in and look at your software and see the best way for you to use it. I don't know if you'll remember last year we talked about it, but that's one of the programs that got put off.

Because we didn't have time that's under dues and membership.

Yes, sir. Okay. All right.

I didn't realize I thought that would be like organizational dues and so forth.

No. And, and that, that shows that plays a major part in why you see the amended budget at 11, five and the projected at 29. Right.

We aren't unable to get to that this year, cuz we're so heavily involved with the chart and also on office equipment, uh, it, it, the projected drop down to $5,500 from 77 and it goes back up to 82 this coming budget. Are there items that you just didn't replace? Are there... Which line item? R&M office equipment. Replacing maintenance office equipment.

Okay, so that's the software. A lot of the softwares go in there. Okay. That's the one I talked about the... copier is in there, the Tyler tech, the unit budget software is in that R and M office equipment line. Okay. Which that will change next year.

Once we get, you don't amortize your software, you, you, you expense it in a year. You, you pay it. Is that what you're doing?

Yes, sir.

Okay. All right. That's fine.

So we've talked about most of the programs, um, upcoming this year. We also will have our banking RFP. We're currently looking at doing a six month extension. to give us some time, but around the November timeframe, we're going to have to start going out RFP for banking. So something coming up. We also wanted to look at, not that there's costs necessarily related to some of this, but like there's certain systems in the Tyler software that we're not taking advantage of, such as Bank Rec Manager, things like that. We're still doing manual Bank Rec. and things like that. So the PACE program that we talked about will help us get that set up. And the content manager, which brings documents into a usable format within Tyler so we can link it all together. So those are the type of things we're looking at moving forward into once we start wrapping up these current projects.

So ultimately, that's going to reduce a lot of time for you guys, right? It's going to reduce a lot of time. There's a lot of manual.

stuff happening in this finance department. I mean, it's basically everything you see in the budget book is spreadsheets from Excel that are many, many different spreadsheets put together. It's a time-consuming process. Jen spends multiple hours on that process.

And that software will allow you to open it up for public view. The things they really can't look at today, they're going to be able to look at if they want to go online.

I hope they can see everything today. It's just it may be harder to find yeah then then i hope it will be you know once we get the new software because it comes with that budget book and i'm currently looking at different cities and that's using it to see which one we want to you know format ours after will that be available is it available through laser fish now on on the record the finance records are they available with the laser fish now Everything that's required to go through as public documents, you know, is with Laserfish. Yeah. But there's still a lot of supporting documents that we save, like in our drives, in our database. So that's part of the PACE program as the content manager, getting those documents into Tyler where we can use them. where you can do, you know, a search for, hey, I bought a widget, and I don't remember how much it cost or who I bought it from, and they can type in widget, and it'll pull up, you know, the invoice, the check, the PO, and everything right there for you to use. So it's a big time saver.

So that will be a public-facing portal?

That would not be. The only public-facing portal we're looking at is that budget book.

Okay.

I mean, it's all public information they could request.

Understood. Will this meet the requirements of the state, the new requirements for the transparency in finance?

So one of the things, we already on our website post every single check that is cut every single month. So every credit card transaction, everything is posted on our website every month on the finance department website. So all of that is already out there. It may not be the easiest. I mean, it's on there. It's posted. You can clearly look at it. Because that's a requirement. We put that out there already.

I know we try to do that. Does it meet the requirements of the new state guidelines for transparency in finance?

You know, they haven't been very, they weren't very clear in the formatting of exactly how they wanted to see everything. I believe we meet a good number of the requirements already. There are some things that we are going to have to add to the website, like quarterly salaries starting January 1st, those things. But they have a specific format that hasn't been really clearly defined yet. And once we get that, we'll make sure it's in that format.

All right.

Appreciate it.

What's important is that the finance department is modernizing itself.

Yes.

They're putting software on that's going to allow Greater and better access to stuff and better usage of stuff.

I think it's important that we fund that so Any other questions for finance All right, we're gonna move on to non-departmental That's on page 99 of your document So just to kind of non-departmental includes costs not related to specific departmental service objectives or programs. Um, the, the largest category of expenditures in this budget is for payments for general fund, general government utilities, general property and casualty liability insurance premiums and payments to the CRA is, is comes out of non-departmental. Um, so you'll see this year, um, we are expecting an increase of, or requesting an increase of 2.7% over the projected expenditures from the previous fiscal year. However, it is a reduction of almost $200,000 from the amended FY2526 budget. The increase in personnel services primarily due to HSA funding is $69,000. Operating expenses, anticipated, uh, property liability insurance costs about 229,000. So one of the things with this is we just this year had the insurance company came in and do it, did a complete audit of everything that we have, uh, from a property and liability standpoint. So we have seen, we've gotten initial reports from them. Um, we've got to go through and decide whether there's areas we want to increase coverage. Or add coverage there are areas that we did not have coverage that have seemed to be a little bit of a concern So we still do not have those final numbers. So that's why you'll see in this Non-departmental that we have a large amounts funded and an increase from last year Just for the what-if of that and that'll all get worked out over itself over the next month or two as We continue to get those numbers finalized from the insurance carrier. I This is an annual thing with them. We never get our property casualty liability and also our dock insurance for the docks. That never comes in until August. And so we're always kind of last minute getting those final numbers for that, but we'll keep you all updated on that. And then non-operating expenses, we did see a decrease due to projects funded in the prior year and none requested this year. So I'll kind of go through each individual area within the operating. So we've got the first item is the CWA pension withdrawal fee. This is the annual fee. We have to pay the CWA $279,005. We pay that quarterly. And I know we've just played the final quarterly for this year, but that will continue to be an expense as we go forward. you will see the group insurance premiums that increase this is retiree benefits. So if an employee has worked for the city for over 20 years, they're eligible to have, um, the city contribute a certain percentage of their medical premiums. If they want to stay on our health insurance, um, this typically happens until they're eligible for like Medicare, but this, uh, previous year, I believe we only had one this coming year. We're going to have three, um, employees who, um, will be eligible for that and who have already, um, signed up for it. So we'll have that. Um, that's the reason for the increase for that. We also have Cobra that falls underneath that group health insurance item as well. HSA funding, you'll see it's an increase over projecting, but it's a decrease from the amended FY26 budget. But this is the HSA funding for each employee and then for the health insurance. Unemployment. that fee has anticipated to remain the same. Um, and then we have additional compensation that has once again, um, that includes some incentive bonuses and holiday bonuses and things like that, that we've done historically for all of our employees. Um, and then also incentive bonuses for employees who go above and beyond and get recognition. Uh, there, there is funding for that included in here as well. Professional services, nothing. Other contractual, this is the old Pellet Works compound environmental monitoring. This is required. It's a brownfield, and it's required by the state. It has not been eligible to close yet. You'll see the projected this year is only $1,200. The state did provide the funding this year to pay for it. So we haven't gotten a response from them and they have not committed to next year. So we have to fund it as though they will not pay for it. Um, but there is a chance that the state comes in again next year and helps us with, um, but right now they are not, um, not willing to commit to that. Contract mowing, this is code enforcement mowing that we go out and handle. That then gets kind of paid back in from code enforcement fines as they're paid. Telephone, these are our citywide phone system that has an annual increase for within the contract with that with RingCentral. Let's see. postage uh just a Indian River County tax postage we've got a 10 increase factored into this estimated in 26 was 865 dollars so we increased it up to 950 with the proposed increase electric proposed anticipating a six percent increase from FPL water sewer five percent from Indian River County insurance once again this is where we where we fund our property inland marine through fmit general cyber liability auto insurance peers and dock insurance uh storage tank pollution liability this is like our gas tanks and things like that uh pd pension liability and um That's all what's kind of being held in insurance and anticipating some increase in that based on the information we've gotten from the audit that could potentially increase our payments on that. Claims, these are just miscellaneous claims that come up throughout the year. Things that someone hits a pothole and damages their tire or something like that. These are claims that come through With that, RNM equipment, this is an annual fee for the business tax licensing module through myGov. 4th of July, we fund the fireworks, our contract with the Lions Club, Indian River County Fire Rescue Engine, portalettes and things like that, miscellaneous regarding the float and stuff like that for 4th of July is included there. That's a decrease from previous years. advertising. We do a little bit of advertising through the chamber of commerce. Um, so that's included in advertising, special events. Um, it's an increase over last year's projected, but it's a decrease over the amended. Um, this is where we pay for clam bake, fine arts, music, uh, Christmas parade expenses, Christmas holiday decorations, uh, river days and craft brew. The, the, all those things come out of this area here. Employee events, these are areas where we recognize our employees when we have certain events throughout the year. We have our annual awards banquet, and then we also do little things here or there to improve employee morale and show them that we appreciate the hard work that they're doing. And that is a decrease from last year's amended. budget as well payment to CRA once again this is the tax increment bill this is where we're anticipating the amount that we'll bring in from Avalorum that we then have to pay into the CRA as required with the CRA fund that's funded by the city and by the county in an equal percentage departmental supplies Uh, 5,900, I know that there's a badge printer and badge supplies at 3,200, which was an increase there. Um, and in board member shirts and EOC supplies. Um, so we've kind of set up two separate EOCs. Um, one is at the police department, depending on the severity of a potential storm that comes in. One is at the police department and one is at the airport. The airport is the more hardened structure. Um, so we've kind of had, we've had to expend funds and we're anticipating a little bit more next year. to get that completely set up so that it's functional and we can use that area during a storm. Dues and memberships, this is where League of Cities and Chamber of Commerce, Sebastian River Area Chamber of Commerce come out of. Tuition reimbursement, those are just numbers that we plug in there on an annual basis in anticipation for those requests potentially coming in. Some years they do, some years they don't. And then landfill fees is our non-advalorem tax, and we're anticipating an increase in that as well. So with that, any questions that you might have from non-departmental? All right, next up. All right, so next we will have golf course. Thank you, Brian. Thank you, Jim.

We've got to go back to 30-something. Page 38.

My golf course is at 130-something. 130, 128. 95.

121. Yep. 121. All right, there we go.

Let's see here. There is a bunny on the pole.

I'll pass him around this way.

I think she's here.

I'll pass. Thank you. So I'll turn it over to Greg here shortly. I just want to kind of highlight a couple things. As we discuss pretty much every single year that the golf course brings in enough revenue to pay for its operations. However, we do have capital projects and capital needs that are going to come in the future. So we are once again looking at the rate structure. And so this will obviously have to come back to you all for further discussion at a council meeting. But what I did want to do is to have Greg kind of present the information to you today and at least have a general discussion on the proposed rates. And then we can kind of go through the budget and discuss it at that point. So Greg, I'll turn it over to you to give them an update on what our proposed golf course rates are going to be.

Okay, as you can see on the first page on memberships, we've just proposed a extremely nominal increase on annual memberships. And on down, most of the rates also have a very small increase. I do think the increase is important. It's important for the increase for starters, that just help pay our expenses, which of course goes up each and every year. The revenue that is on page 122, most of the revenue projections entail the nominal increases. The only one that probably could go up a little more, but it may be better to come in a little lower, And then maybe end up with a really nice number there. It would be the resident card. We, um, if we do, as you'll see on the, um, on the, um, proposed rates, it's back on section three. I know we're jumping around a little bit, but on section three, we have the, uh, you know, the resident slash discount card, um, going from 80 to a hundred dollars. If we do get that at $100, that $60,000 projection, it should be more like $70,000, maybe even $75,000. So that's always a good revenue stream. And, of course, that's just as important. The discount card is just as important as an annual membership, really, because it all but guarantees repeat play. It guarantees that people say, well, I just bought this. I'm going to use it. And they certainly do. They get their money's worth with that.

Okay. So within the winter rates with the resident card are $10 per 18-hole round less than without the card. Exactly. Okay. Exactly. So they pay $100 for the card if they play 10 times during the winter. They made their $100 back. That's not a bad deal. Right. Yeah, it's not a bad deal. Now, if they play three times a week, they're making money on that deal a lot. They certainly are. Yeah. They certainly are.

And, of course, we have annual members.

It benefits the annual members, obviously. It's worth it only if you're playing, what, three, three-and-a-half rounds a week or something. Right.

They're going to pay $1,800 instead of $100 for the annual members.

They're going to be playing five or six rounds a week.

Yeah. I mean, they have to play more to make their money. But the discount card's a good deal if you're a passive player. Yes. It's a good deal. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

One big thing we've proposed, you may notice there is a question mark on all of our PM times on the proposed rates. Again, it's kind of funny how this transpired only about two years ago, and I go to a big state of Florida public golf meeting every year. And about two years ago, a fellow that had actually retired, but still enjoyed coming to the meetings. Throughout, the fact that basically the question, why do we lower the rate at 12 o'clock noon? And his comment was, well, the grass isn't any different at 12.01 p.m. than it is at 8 a.m. So why are we lowering the rate? And it was kind of like a V8 moment. Everybody said, you know what? He's right. He's right. There are already some courses. There's a couple in our immediate area that has already dropped after 12 rates. The 18-hole price is the 18-hole price all day long. What about doing that after 3? By the time we get to 3, we're almost down to 9-hole rates anyway after 3. Like right now, I think our last 18-hole time is 3.32 with the thought that they'd be in by 7.30, 7.45 at the latest.

So your premium time is what? What time do you open in the morning?

First tee time is 6.52.

So when is your premium time? Is it like 6 to 9 a.m.? Is that when you get the – I mean, what about instead of having an a.m. p.m., have a premium and then the rest of the day? I mean, maybe if that's your busiest time, raise the rates a little bit there during that premium time when it's cooler out, when most people want to golf, and the rest of the day have it be the same price. Just a thought.

So, Greg, question on that. Would you say that our premium time though is majority annual members or, you know, a lot of those tee times are picked up from those who have the annual members and earlier card. So I don't know that we would see the large increase on that.

Now, one thing too, I, um, you know, this, uh, breaking news, uh, yesterday, about the proposed time change. Federal government, yeah. Just about made me fall out of my chair. I don't know if I'm a fan of this or not. When you look at the, like in January and February, sunrise is going to be like at 8.20 a.m. We are very much about the early morning. Sunset's going to be. Of course, we'll get some, we'll get a little back end play on that. if this were to happen, but the back end play is only going to be nine hole play. We would really lose a lot of 18 hole play if this time change goes through and it stays daylight savings time year round. I would be concerned about that.

I'm just going to be frank, not Chris for a second. If those are mostly... annual membership holders, then we're not going to lose any money because they're going to still keep their membership for all the other times. So, so maybe it doesn't really affect us either. I mean, just thinking from what we just discussed. So maybe in the long run, the times move back some for those annual membership players. And like you said, you get some, maybe everybody just schedules their golf game an hour later. The question is then what do you do from, you know, six to six to seven 30 or so. Right. And you may even have to adjust.

staffing hours well of course part of the year maybe maybe that is the answer at the end of the day is adjusting hours of operation sure to prepare for this sure yeah i couldn't see the cart barn opening until 7 a.m on it like the months of january and february if this goes through

Right, so your basic question here is looking at the PM times, is that you're saying it's questionable there whether or not we should go to that or leave the rates the same all day long.

Yes, leave them the same.

Right. Leave the 18-hole rate the same. Right. So maybe you leave them the same all day long and you have a time in which you only charge for nine holes. If somebody plays 12, you're not going to stop them if they can get the cart back in time. Right. But you're only charging for nine holes after some point in time. And you could literally post that in the clubhouse on a weekly basis. Nine-hole rate starts at 320 this week. Yes. Starts at whatever this week. Whatever, right. Right. And just do away with your PM times completely.

That's what I say. I agree with that. I agree.

And one other thing that we've looked at here is changing our – the dates our dates so if you look at um like i'll use section two october 1st through december 20th is fall and spring is currently april 16th to may 31st however we're proposing to change that to may 1st to june 21st because what we're seeing is we're seeing the winter is kind of lasting a little longer um and so we've adjusted all the dates to kind of go to that a little bit lengthier winter period of charging. Um, also expanding our fall and spring a little bit, and then kind of decreasing the summer rates, um, the summertime that's in there.

Yeah, that sounds. Yeah.

And that would help, uh, that would help the cash register for sure.

we're sure. And then are we going to be able to put more money back? Hopefully we'll be able to put more money into the reserve fund for the golf course with some of these changes or we're not looking at that right now. Yeah.

I still don't think it's enough to really help us there. Um, But we look at the annual memberships. Greg and I had this discussion. I think we could realistically look at raising them higher, but then I think we run the chance of losing memberships would kind of offset it. The other thing is we discussed the discount cards. I think, as was mentioned earlier, that's probably the best. bang for your buck at the golf course. Of course. So we raised it $20. I don't know that that's enough. I mean, I think that that could be, that's a roundabout way to not have a membership, but get pretty good benefits. And I think you got to kind of look at the number of rounds played and what the cost is associated with both of them. But, you know, if you're really close, you just don't quite make it on the membership. I mean that discount card, we're losing a lot of money from discount cards. If, From some people because they are getting that $10 off or even I think sometimes it's $13 off. When you look at the winter rates, they're saving $13.

You know, a lot of courses actually put a round limit on their discount cards. You buy a discount card and that gives you 10 coupons.

More like a punch card.

And each is for an 18-hole round. Right. And as opposed to saying you can use it as much as you play. Maybe the thing to do is to change the philosophy of the discount card

Can you move your mic a little bit closer? I'm sorry.

I'm sorry.

Just a little closer.

Yeah. A lot of golf courses actually have a limit. They don't sell you. They call a discount card. It's like a punch card or it's a tag card.

Right.

And you get for X number of dollars, you get 10 rounds or six rounds or whatever. So maybe what we might want to think about is having a limit on the number of rounds that the discount card will actually provide you at that rate. And then if you want to rebuy, possibly allow them to rebuy, but you're getting that additional discount card fee back for the rebuy. It might be worth considering it. One thing about raising the rates at the golf course is it's tempting to think you might want to raise them dramatically because you're not putting enough money in reserves, but if you do it too much too fast, you'll start really losing membership. You could do it sequentially over five years or so, recognizing that you're going to do it every year for the next five years or something. or maybe every year forever, maybe, but you know, instead of trying to do one big giant increase in it, but I think the discount cards putting a limit on the number of rounds that that applies to make sense.

And I think as far as you don't even have to have a card because when they check in the golf course, whoever has one, they check them in. I'm Fred Jones. Okay, Fred, now you have one more left. So if you want to do anything or re-up it or whatever. But, yeah, I think it sounds great because the golf course knows that's the only one they're going to be able to use it at, the Sebastian Golf Course. So you can't go to Sand Ridge and use it or anything else. So I think that's a great idea.

Yeah, a philosophical round for that is you have a friend that comes to visit you for two weeks, and you want to play golf five times in two weeks. You buy them a discount card, and they play five times in two weeks, and they've paid a little bit less for an 18-hole round to play with you, and it's a good advantage to the residents to be able to do that. Sure. Yeah, but I agree with what Brian said. It doesn't make sense necessarily to allow somebody to play, you know, 80 times a year on a discount card and save $800, you know, whatever that is in savings. Yeah.

Yeah.

So we'll go back and revisit the discount card and see if we can come up with something different before we come back to you all with that. The one other thing that I did want to make mention of is our junior green fee on the third page under section three of the document Greg just gave you. We did adjust that. Basically what we were doing currently, and Greg, you can tell me if I'm wrong on this, was that we were charging them $3 to walk But then if they were to ride, they were having to pay the cart fee. So what we're going to do now is we're going to have them, a junior is now going to be defined as 15 years of age or younger because we do get some 16, 17, 18-year-olds that want to come out and drive the golf cart for $3. And if they're going to use a cart, it has to be with a player that has a valid driver's license, which typically happens. And that fee, they will only pay $5 to play. The junior will. No cart fee will be associated with it. It will only be a straight $5 fee. And I think this is a way that we can kind of promote junior golf and not, you know, and hopefully like, you know, parents will bring their kid out to play with them and give them an opportunity to play and it'll only be $5 and go from there. Yep, 100% agree. I agree with that. So, and that's, so that's it for that document. And then Greg, if you want to start going through your budget.

Okay, so as we get over to expenses, everything has stayed, you know, we're not going over and above on everything. We've really tried to, you know, hold the line as much as possible on all expenses. There is a, you know, there's going to be a little jump on the administrative services provided to the golf course. You see that jump there. Airport rent is virtually staying the exact same. But those two numbers together, they will add up to about $270,000. Everything else, I do believe we've kept it as tight as we possibly can, factoring in some nominal increases. As Brian mentioned earlier, FPL obviously is is going to be going up a little bit. Bank charges, you see that number, that's a big number, but the majority of people pay for golf. They even pay for something as simple as a range token with a credit card. So credit cards are used frequently. But I do think, again, we have everything as tight as we can. You know, something as simple as cleaning supplies. There's a jump there. You see that going all the way up to 8,500. But everything in that world, all the paper products, they have gone up a good bit. And we're, just to get through this fiscal year, I think we're going to make it to the penny with that line item. uh but um again if see anything that jumps out just uh let me know but it's pretty consistent from the last couple years and uh we're not going over and above on anything really i don't think so any questions on administration before we move on to greens so it looks like we're

The reserves out of the golf course are pretty much staying. This is back in the schedule, but it's 292 versus 281, so you're adding some money to the reserves in the golf course, which is a good thing.

Yeah, and I expect us to be able to. Greg and I have had numerous discussions on. If you remember last year, we did a capital outlay project for the replacement of the cart barn. So Greg and I have had this discussion. We budgeted $200,000 for it. don't you know we don't know that we're going to fully replace it so he's currently going back and having them look at replacing the roof and then seeing if there's any structural work that needs to be done to the existing building so hopefully that comes in under budget um and then we can put the remaining of that back into the to the thing um you know one of the big things on this and i don't know where we go with this but i can tell you i mean i I play the golf course a little bit, and I really think we need to consider in the future, we're going to have to consider redoing the turf, not just the greens, but the tee boxes, the fairways. That's where we see most of the destruction and stuff. The greens are in good shape, but it's really the other parts of play that are really starting to show to wear and tear, and the course hasn't seen a redo or any of that. you know, in the recent past. So I think that's probably where our biggest expense is going to go in the future is having to recondition the course. But that's something that we'll have to budget and then, you know, look at how we're going to potentially, you know, take out a bond or a loan or something of that nature and then have to raise the rates at that point to try to start to repay that, make that payment. So those are things that Greg and I talk about on a consistent basis when we're looking at what's happening at the course and And the one thing that, you know, that I've asked as we're going into this fall and winter, you know, we've not gone, we've had two good years of weather, you know, we're going back into that El Nino, which caused us problems three years ago. Um, and we're, we're already, you know, getting the forecast for that. So we gotta make sure that we're staying on top of the greens and, and I know they put some additional proactive measures in place. But this fall and winter is going to be a challenge for us in kind of seeing how we have learned from what happened three years ago and see if we can continue to minimize the effects on the greens with that because I expect it to be a cloudy, wet, cooler winter with the El Nino conditions as we go forward. So just bringing that out into the open now as we're sitting here in July that we're already looking at that and trying to figure out what we're going to do to address that as we go forward. So we'll move on to golf course greens.

Yeah. On golf course greens, you see the, um, this is all programmed in, um, our, um, golf maintenance provider, uh, international golf maintenance. There, there is a, uh, there is a small increase there. Um, you know, trying to keep electric, uh, down as much as we can. Um, we are certainly hoping by now. we have basically repaired a lot of things on the irrigation system this year this was the year of irrigation a lot of electronic components variable drive boxes thermal control units all kinds of electronic gadgets decided to go out on us this year at the irrigation pump house so that's why you see that that uh, unbudgeted number of 52,000, um, from this current fiscal year. But we certainly hope to get that back, um, um, back under control next, you know, this coming year at, uh, at that $16,000 mark. Um, and again, everything else is staying, um, you know, as tight as we can. You see under the capital outlay where, you know, we're, trying to just consistently throw $50,000 onto the golf course for now for some minor improvements. If we can always pull off a few extra tee boxes, that would be a great thing. We could never have enough tee space on that golf course. The problem is sometimes you don't want to set in stone exactly what you're going to do with that $50,000 months ahead of time. Um, you know, things change out there in the environment quickly. And, uh, of course, with some of the, um, you know, electronic parts and whatnot, just like I was saying with the irrigation. So we certainly hope we can put that $50,000 each and every year towards turf, but sometimes that's not the case. But, um, like I said, I we've replaced everything we can on the irrigation system right now. So I don't think we're going to have any more irrigation issues. going into the next fiscal year. You see that fertigation number too. I told Brian that probably sets in the middle of a need and a want. I mean, I'll be honest, it's not a thousand percent necessary that we get fertigation, but it certainly could be a game changer. It would just that much more, it would help the turf. Environmentally, you're able to put products directly into the irrigation system, so you wouldn't have an operator out maybe with a boom sprayer or with a broadcast spreader. Everything would be going through the irrigation system onto the turf. Hang on. Wait a minute.

Thank you. Mike just went out. Can you hear him? Did you turn him down? Because all of a sudden his voice was coming out. Okay. Okay.

Everything okay now? Yeah. Okay. Sorry about that. Okay. But the fertigation could be a game changer with just the quality of the turf. It would really help. And, again, it alleviates.

So is $33,000 the cost to put the equipment in to do that?

Exactly. Okay. And that even includes, like, a concrete pad. Okay. Uh, there's, there's a, uh, there's a huge tank.

So that's not, that's not an additional cost for like the chemical infusions or anything like that. That's all handled through different line items. Exactly. Okay. That's just the cost of putting the equipment in.

Yeah. And then plowing it, or I should say plumbing it into the, uh, directly into the irrigation. And then that equipment resides in one central area.

Yes. It would be right next to the pump location anyway. Okay. And so when you run it through the irrigation system, Can you selectively run it or is it you're running it through for the entire course?

You can select selectively run it.

Yes. Okay. I mean, it's a good idea and it's probably worth. Oh yeah. It's probably worth it. I mean, it, once again, anything you can do to not have to replace that grass. And if it's $33,000, it means you can do a better job of treating the grass than you're doing today, and it makes it go another two years or three years. That's a good savings. Sure.

Or it makes it not wear as bad. It's a good savings. Right. I mean, naturally, if we had effluent water, it probably wouldn't be necessary. Right. But with our general lake water, it...

What about the coverage area? Don't we have some areas that the sprinklers do not cover that would be encompassed in that, right?

Sure. Sure, some of those areas would still have to be, like, boom sprayed. But the majority of the, you know, the main play areas are definitely covered. You know, tees, fairways, greens, of course. Even the outer edges of the rough do get hit by the irrigation.

Have you seen that before somewhere else or somebody else, other golf course using that? Have you seen what the results are? Fertigation? Oh, of course, yeah. Really?

Yeah.

It was kind of curious to me because I didn't know what you were talking about when you first said fertigation.

Because you're dropping your R&M irrigation systems down from $52,000 to $16,000 in this budget. So reality, if you throw that $33,000 at it, you're right back at what you budgeted last year for irrigation systems. And it is an upgrade, basically, to the system. So it seems to me it makes sense to think about trying to put that back in or keep it in.

Yeah, and fertigation is used a lot on golf courses and large athletic facilities. So somewhere that you don't necessarily want to have a, as he mentioned, a boom sprayer or something that's, hey, they're out there spraying, the fertigation system is used in a lot of those places.

Very interesting.

It isn't going to stop us from still having to spray for some you know some of the pesticides and things like that but it does stop us from fertilizing and stuff like that from the spreaders and stuff like that can all funnel through the irrigation system there'll still be some areas we have to treat but majority of it will be all through the system the golf course is a great asset to the city and I know a lot of people

don't understand why we spend money on the golf course, but quite frankly, it's a great asset to the city. It's like any park. It's definitely worth spending what we need to spend to maintain it and make it available to the residents.

Yes, sir.

I have to agree with that. Honestly, it's probably going to become greater. There is a concern, especially in Florida, with supply versus demand when it comes to golf. Golf is booming today. It's been booming since 2020, and there's no indication that it's going to stop. Yet the irony is a couple courses are going by the wayside, typically for the sake of homes. You know, we all know this has happened in Brevard County now. It's happened twice in the last two years. You know, there was a course in Palm Bay. There's still masters and the majors, the majors. Yeah. They're, they're still fighting. It was a beautiful course too. Very beautiful. Uh, you know, Arnold Palmer, uh, design originally. And, um, I know they're fighting back and forth about, um, putting homes all over the place. Uh, I know it's a little further away, but up in Rockledge, uh, Turtle Creek closed over a year ago. Turtle Creek was a beautiful course. They immediately started building. That was a dire course there. And, um, nobody's knocking the door down to buy enough property to, to build a golf course. I know in this immediate area, in a hundred, 150 mile radius, they're not. So public golf courses are, are gonna really, uh, stay busy. Um, and, and that's a bad thing in some ways, cuz the more rounds, the more damage, the more damage, the more cost to maintain.

Well, of course, but that's start trying to charge enough money to cover that. and people get mad at you. Sure. But, I mean, right now we're probably at a point with the number of rounds that are played on that course that if we increase the number of rounds that are played, we're going to increase our maintenance costs disproportionately to that.

There was days this past winter I didn't want to tell Brian how many rounds we did because we did too many. Yes. We actually did 250, 260. And the condition of the course shows that, too, that all the play.

Sure.

I mean, a better number, even in peak season, could probably be 200, 210. Yeah. Which is funny. The first Friday in June, we did 208 rounds in June. It kind of shows you that supply and demand. and they're here, they're here year round now. And, um, so maybe we should do the beer concession or something.

Maybe we should move on with this budget package.

Okay.

That's where I want to go to golf carts, golf carts.

Well, golf carts, uh, the cart division, uh, yeah, there's no, again, there's nothing that really just jumps out. Um, we've kept everything as, um, down to the minimum as we possibly can. Theoretically, this should be our last year for the current fleet of golf carts that we have. Brian and I will have to start working on that for October of 27. It's going to be time to talk about another fleet of golf carts. The ones we have now, they've got their issues, but they're Generally working fine. The lead acid batteries are hanging in there. But that is a concern as we go into that fourth year with the golf carts. So you see just a very small increase on like R&M operating equipment. That's what that's all about. Just more than likely predicting that we may very well have to buy some batteries, just get the carts through that fourth year.

And Greg, how many, we've already had to replace batteries in a decent number of carts. Do you recall how many we've done so far?

Well, they've all been warrantied. Yeah, correct. So far, we've probably had close to about 120 batteries replaced.

And how many batteries are in a total?

There's six 8-volt batteries in each cart.

And you've had to replace about 120 of them? Yes. So, I mean, we can start to see kind of the timeline of these. carts and we're reaching the end of their, their span. And so, uh, Greg and I've had a discussion, um, probably when we go out, we're probably gonna look at battery, but then also looking at, um, gas as well. Um, just to kind of try to look at both options as we go forward, um, to see what's gonna work best for the city as we, we move into this.

And we generate enough revenue off cart rental to cover our cost. If we lease them, is that, do we, Are we close to doing that?

Well.

Because I know, Becky, look at your chart about increasing cost. I mean, you've got, is it under that schedule? Do you think if we end up having to lease new carts next year, is there enough money coming in on revenue to cover the cost of leases there is?

I think so. Far and above, I think golf carts are probably our biggest moneymaker. Yeah. far and above. But there is a concern. I mean, as life goes on, the companies are getting out of lead acid batteries. There's already two of the three major car companies are out of the lead acid world. It's either lithium, which naturally is more expensive, but lithium lasts so much longer. They're on charge a lot shorter. They are totally maintenance free. Yes, it will either be lithium or gas, I think, as life goes on. And the thing, the companies that are still providing lead acid batteries, we've seen it, even a top-of-the-line lead acid battery is not as good as it was 20 years ago. They're using recycled lead, other materials. They're just not as good.

So based on the batteries, are we on track with what they call the amp hours on our carts? So I've noticed recently that you can't complete an 18 round of golf starting in the morning without the battery lights starting to come on. So my concern is have those... amp hours been checked by the manufacturer and if we are we're starting to lose batteries are they still under warranty so that we don't cover them because i remember last time we had an issue with that with the amp hours they wouldn't cover it because we were above the amp hours on certain carts so they wouldn't cover the batteries on those we are at that breaking point right now uh overall um

the batteries fall out of warranty after they've hit 25,000 amp hours. Most of the carts are right at that number right now. That's why we pushed hard to get the authorized dealer up as frequently as possible, knowing we're right at that breaking point. And sure enough, a lot of the batteries were like at 24,000 and change. So they just by the skin of their teeth fell under warranty. There's still about 15 new batteries in the cart barn right now that will obviously get installed here shortly. But those are all, they've already confirmed that those are all warranty replacements. So that will be a concern. That's always that roll of the dice on that fourth year with a lead acid battery. You typically will hit that 25,000 amp hours, you know, after three years and a handful of months for sure. The light will come on. A lot of times a light will come on, like on the back nine, the cart is still just fine. I, people do get concerned over that light. They'll call it and we can look at, look up like that happened just yesterday. Somebody called and said, my, my battery light just came on. I went on the, uh, on the computer and that cart still had 10% battery power. They had four holes left. That, that cart was fine. when it came in. Yes, of course, the light was still on, but they had plenty of power to finish 18 holes. So that will happen occasionally.

Right. Yeah, the concern for me, though, is, and I hope you all are looking at this, is we have at least a year more before we get new carts. Yes. And if we're having a bunch of our carts already at that... what's it called? Amp hours or whatever. And the batteries start going down. That means now probably in four or six months, maybe we're going to have to buy batteries because they're not, and they're out of warranty.

Right.

And now we're going to have to pay for that. You're going to have to pay for that out of your budget. So have you been starting to plan for that? Looking at that?

Yeah, that's where that, that's where that number is now at a 5,000 where we've gone up from a, you know, you see the, you know, we were at 3,600, uh, this past year a lot of that is just that was for you know non warranty things that went out but the solution is hit your ball close to the cart path

No, I'm just concerned. And then you're on the concrete. You know, we ran into this problem before where we had to come up with a lot of money. We spent a lot of money on batteries. We had to come up with a lot of money, and the concern is making sure that we stay on top of these things before we get to that point, and that's what we had spoken about before.

Is there anything in our current agreement that stops us from replacing those carts early?

No.

So if, in fact, we look at it and we see a large number of the batteries running up onto that 25,000 amp hours... Is there a reason why we might not want to speed up the process of replacing the carts? And I know when you replace them, you don't get 100% of the new carts in on day one. There's a staggered process, right? We get them all pretty quick. We do get them all at once. It seems like with Fred's issue, rather than get to the point where you're starting to have to buy more batteries, is it safe to think maybe it's time to replace the carts earlier?

sure process i don't know that's that's just that's a discussion you guys have to have when you look at it yeah yeah i mean i think to your point on on budgeting for it it's a hard one to do because we don't want to sit here and have these huge budget numbers out of the golf course because we are trying to conserve as much funding as we can in that account but knowing that we've already replaced 120 batteries the realist realistically we're probably going to have to replace another hundred batteries over the course of the next year so we need to kind of look at that see what that cost is going to be associated with and then is there anything else we can do because once they reach that threshold of the warranty there's nothing we can do but if they're not already showing because they come in and they do a full test on the battery so we can call them in and say hey these 10 carts are having a problem that doesn't mean they're covered under warranty they do the test and if the test doesn't show that the battery meets those specs, they're not gonna replace the battery. They're gonna say it still has plenty of ability in it. So we've been able to get 120 done so far. We'll continue as they come in to, until we reach that number, we'll continue to have them come up and check it until we get to that 25,000 number. But we also don't know on every single cart on every battery. So there's still gonna be some that may be at 23,000 or 24,000. We'll keep having to evaluate it.

Are we still in a better place buying than leasing?

I think so, but it'll be part of the evaluation we do whenever we get quotes for new carts. Lithium is going to cost a lot more than lead acid batteries if we go battery. If we go gas, we get more years out of it, but we then have to fill them with gas. There's a cost there. analysis.

After a year and a half, you'll have to hire a mechanic pretty much full-time on gas cards.

You've got to put a tank at the golf course, too. Gas is a whole other environmental challenge.

Those are things that we have to consider when we look at this, but I can tell you lithium's going to be a decent number.

It will be the future, for sure. Like I said, the lead-acid batteries are starting to phase out anyway.

Lithium's probably the way to go, but you've got to make sure they don't... i'll tell you a tale of a lithium battery i have one of those battery charger things that you jump your car with and i made a mistake and leave it inside the cab of my truck and i went back three weeks two weeks later i don't use a truck very often you know i went back two weeks later and got in the truck and it was it went from being this big to being this big oh boy you know it was right ready to explode and set that truck on fire and i don't have that kind of insurance on that truck but so lithium batteries have their downside especially when you're talking about parking them in a barn If we get this summer is where it's 100 degrees for six months. It's hot in that barn. We get cooling fans in there. It's hot in that barn.

Yeah, we could. We could.

Good job to the golf course guys.

Thank you.

All right, any other questions for Greg before I turn them loose?

Thank you.

No, thank you, Greg. All right.

Thank you.

We have human resources up next.

We've got to be tough on this guy.

Tough.

He came back from vacation.

all right so um we've got Dan here to give us a rundown of the human resources department budget and um allow you all to ask him any questions so I'll turn it over to you sir This should be simpler than the page 41. This should be simpler than the police budget you're used to.

It should be simpler than the golf course.

Hopefully they have more questions for you than they used to.

There are two employees. I guess page 45? We're going to start. You can see there are two employees. In the position, there are three listed, we did change the human resource assistant to human resource coordinator, just because Kristen does a lot more than an assistant. She does onboarding and does many things in the human resource world. It's more consistent with coordinator, and that's where her position was. Sorry, title was changed. Sorry, it was my notebook was pushing it farther away. So if we go to page 46, we can start with the budget. The top is personal services. I don't think there's anything, unless anyone has any questions about the personnel services, we can go with operating the budget. Employee background testing, that's the pre-employment screening and the PD psych evaluations that's going down next year. Obviously, the positions are full or filled up and as well as a potential hiring freeze. Going down the line a little further, traveling per diem, there's a small spike in that. Cindy had not been going to, or sorry, the previous HR director had not been going to any conferences herself and had a minimal budget. So that's the reason for the small spike there. Going down a little further. There's the promotional activities. There's money there for the health fair and open enrollment. Under that is advertising. That's mandatory EEO. Advertising that has to be done by the city. The budget did decrease a little bit there. But again, that's some mandatory advertising we have to do. So that's why that's still there. Dues and memberships, that's some hr association fees and local meetings that there's associated fees for and then the training and education there's a a spike there almost a double spike just training that city manager and i have spoke about citywide increasing the training for all employees across the city what are you looking at doing on that training is it

like PowerPoint and in-house type or what are you?

So it includes conferences for the two employees in, you know, myself and Kristen in HR. A small portion of that includes for conferences next year. And then also the majority of it will be for department heads and citywide like leadership succession planning, leadership training, citywide just an increase in overall training for all departments and hopefully bringing in outside instruction.

Is that a reclassification, uh, basically from human resource assistance to coordinator? Is that reclassification of a current employee or yes, having to turn over?

Nope. It's a, it's a Kristen. She's been in the, the position, I think, since it was created by Cindy. Okay. And she would just be reclassified from an assistant to coordinator.

So some of that training would be for her things that she will become responsible for that she's not done? Yeah. Okay.

And I know one of the other trainings.

And then you're going to have to go through some, you know, attend a couple of conferences and some things like that and your resources. Yes, sir. Yeah.

One of the other couple of the other types of trainings are for council member. Matthews there say additional safety trainings that we we now are requiring for employees for citywide so that that cost is also included in there in addition to leadership training and things like that.

Okay, and are you taking on some of that the training that is an HR training requirement for like your accreditation process and things like that are you over housing that. Or is it strictly with the police department?

So from an HR standpoint on the city side, so a, um, the training from the police side is a little different. They, they kind of handle and they have to have some, bring in some things in house here. We do some in house training. We do training through FMT, our municipal insurance carrier, uh, Florida municipal insurance trust. They do a lot. I mean, all of our employees had to go through an eight hour training this year and next year they'll have to go through it again. We also have cybersecurity training and computer training that's a four-hour course that all employees have to take. That's not offered by FMIT. It's offered by NOBA IV, and you'll see that in the MIS budget. But all of those trainings lumped in together, pretty much every employee on both sides, from the PD and from the general city side, has to go through those general HR. From an accreditation standpoint, they have different standards and additional training they have to go through.

And that's what I'm asking, because there is a chapter for HR training, and it really would be for the entire city, all the employees, and not just the police department, because there isn't a chapter for that. The reason I'm asking is I noticed the big jump, and then there's a statement here that there's safety courses and other mandatory courses, and as of April 30th, only 60% of the employees have completed those mandatory courses. And I'm just curious as to what that encompasses to where we're bringing in

training so the 60 number i'm almost positive we're at 100 now um because it was required by june 30th um was our our set date from in-house um and so i know that that that number that was just supplied whenever she's got to remember a lot of these documents are submitted back in march and april so that's where the 60 that's not an accurate number today

And are you cutting yourself short on the postage? HR does a lot of mailing.

I mean, we, uh, I can just speak. I know Dan's kind of newer to this budget. I can just speak to that. Something that historically I just go based off what they've done in the past. Um, if they happen to have an increase this year, then they're going to have to find it somewhere else within this budget. Um, I'm not just going to give them an increase. I hate to say it, but that's just the way I'm not going to, without them having real hard justification on it, they can show me facts. And if they didn't spend it this year, I don't anticipate they'll need it next year.

Okay. So stamp might be cheaper than the gas.

So any, any other questions for human resources?

welcome aboard to your new job thank you today's day number two yes it is they're not going to be fun with you next year yeah think about that next year we're going to really come back I'm glad you're going to be going to conferences and things because the only way to ever uh be a director of a human resources or anything is to be able to talk to other people doing the same thing as you're doing to talk about what's working with them and not working with them. And it gives you the ability to modernize everything we're doing or change it down the road. So I'm glad you're going because that's an important thing to happen, I believe.

And I'm all about the training. Don't get me wrong. It's just that when you see, it's more for everybody else listening out there. When you're jumping $10,000 or $20,000 in a training, training's important. And it's a vital part of our existence and what we do and how to progress. So I'm all about training. There's never going to be a part of that. It's just that... Just to explain it.

That's what it's about.

Now he's going for the details. Uh-oh, here we go.

Do you need a detail? I have a detail.

He's going to run it out for us.

Deep. So.

Federal and state requirements on HR. Yeah. I don't know.

So I'll detail it out for you on the training and education. And I don't, I thought I had it from last year, but I apologize. I don't have last year's detail sheets with me. 17,000 in citywide employee safety and other training. That's $17,000 out of that 22,885. 5,000 is leadership training. Then you got $2,000 for SHRM and FPHRA conferences and $1,000 for an HR conference. So $3,000 of that is conferences. And then you've got $5,000 in leadership training. And I apologize, that number is not correct. Because I cut another $2,115 out of it. So the numbers on top didn't get added to it. So basically what happened here, so your conferences are down to 2,000 total between the three.

Okay.

All right. And then your leadership training went from, stayed at 5,000, and citywide training went from 17 down to 16,885.

I mean, sorry, $15,885. $15,885. Okay, now we're at $22,000.

Correct. Yes. Yeah, it's just it's overseen and operated and functioned by HR, but it does entail the entire city-wide. So it is non-departmental for the action, but the oversight and the organization is specific to HR. Okay. So sorry about that. The numbers up top didn't get updated, but I did reduce it by $2,115. Okay. Thank you. Any other questions? All right. So now it is 1138. We will, we will break for lunchtime. What time do you all want to come back? Just so that I can have this afternoons. We're tentatively scheduled to start at one to start. So let's go 1245. We can be back here at 1240. I'll have community development here at 1245. And then I had the police department ready to go right after that.

All right.

All right. And then, so just so you all know, so our plan, if we had public here, was at this time at the end of the morning session, I was gonna open it up for public input. There's no one here. The end of the afternoon, we'll open it for public input. That way it's kind of fresh and we don't make them wait the whole period. And then tomorrow we would do the same thing at the end of the morning session. and in the end of the afternoon session, we would open it up for public input. Tomorrow, I will, just in case anybody's trying to plan for tomorrow, we anticipate to be done by 11 in the morning. I then have a meeting, and I believe Council Member Dodd had a meeting, and I think you have a meeting as well. There were some meetings that interrupted, so we'll break at 11 for lunch. We'll have lunch again tomorrow, but then we won't start back up till one o'clock. So there will be a two-hour time gap tomorrow in that middle portion of the day. But we'll break now for lunch. Thank you.