Planning & Zoning Commission - Regular Meeting
The Planning and Zoning Commission approved two major developments: a carport for the Sebastian Police Department and the Treasure Bay Planned Unit Development, consisting of 180 residential units. They also recommended approval to the City Council for the Sebastian Pines development, which includes 502 residential units.
About this meeting
- Government Body
- Planning & Zoning Commission
- Meeting Type
- Planning & Zoning Commission
- Location
- Sebastian, FL
- Meeting Date
- June 4, 2026
Transcript
147 sections
I call to order this meeting of the...
I did press that. All right. This meeting of the Planning and Zoning Commission for the City of Sebastian. We will begin tonight with the Pledge of Allegiance.
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, And to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
Roll call, please.
Mr. Reno? Yes. Ms. Battles is excused tonight. Mr. Carter?
Present.
Ms. Kottenberg? Here. Ms. Kenton? Here. Ms. LaRusso? Here. And Mr. Garten?
Present.
Thank you. Okay. Announcements for this evening. Commissioner Battles is excused from tonight's meeting. Our alternate member, Mr. Garten, will be voting in her place tonight. Item number two, as a reminder to all of the commissioners and staff, if you are not speaking at this time, make sure you turn off your microphone. The microphones are picking up all of the background noise in the room, and let's see, weeping and wailing and applauding. Just all confused, the record-keeping, because we have automatic record-keeping now, right? Yes, the red light is on, and it's your call.
Okay.
The next item of business is approval of the minutes for our regular meeting, which was held May 7th, 2026. Commissioners, you've had a chance to review those minutes. If you have no additions or corrections, the chair will entertain a motion to accept those minutes as submitted.
Madam Chairman, excuse me, I'll make a motion that we accept the minutes from the May 7th, 2026 meeting for the Planning and Zoning Commission.
Second. All in favor?
Aye. Any opposed? Thank you. Okay. We have a couple of public hearings tonight. And before we get that, I see members of the audience, and I'm not sure if any of you are familiar how our meetings work. These are official meetings. They are recorded. We run an orderly meeting. We're glad you're here to express your opinions. We are anxious to hear your input. but we do need to keep our meeting orderly. We ask all persons who are going to testify to fill out an oath card, and when you're at the microphone, say your name, speak clearly into the microphone, spell your name if it's unusual other than Smith or Jones, so that we can keep accurate records. We also ask you to be peaceable and kind to each other. no applause, no booing, no throwing of popcorn or ice cream cones. That being said, we will move to our first public hearing. If our attorney will read it for us.
Yes, the first hearing is a public hearing, quasi-judicial, a site plan development. City of Sebastian Police Department carport at 1201 Main Street, construction of a 2,080 square foot metal carport in existing parking lot. Land use is institutional, and the zoning district is public service. Because this is quasi-judicial, if anyone who is going to speak on this matter could be sworn in, you can raise your right hand. And actually, for staff, we have two more quasi-judicials, so we'll swear you in for everything tonight. Do you solemnly swear or affirm the testimony you give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? Thank you.
Have any of the commissioners had any ex parte communication with any of the parties involved? The applicant, please make your presentation.
So the City of Sebastian is the applicant for this, and I'll take care of the presentation for them. So good evening. My name is Jim Mann. I'm with the Community Development Department. And for you, this item is a City of Sebastian Department Cardboard application. And we have a slideshow for this. So the application type is a site plan development. So the project name is basically the carport for the City of Sebastian Police Department and the owner is the City of Sebastian. The summary of the request is construction of the 2,080 square foot metal carport, Carolina carport located in the existing parking lot on the north side of the building. And as you can see with this site plan, it's located on the north and in the parking lot. This carport does not increase any of the impervious area of the site. It is a prefab metal carport just for the parking use. And the recommendation tonight, this is pretty self-explanatory, is approval of the proposed site plan for the City of Sebastian Police Department located at 1201 Main Street. And if you have any questions, feel free to ask.
Thank you. And since the city is the presenter and also the staff, we'll move right to commissioners to ask any questions of the applicant.
I just have one. The carport itself, is that specifically for the police vehicles or for employee use or is it multi-use?
I believe it'll probably be multi-use because I do know employees do park back in that area as well and police vehicles as well. But we do have a representative from the police department that can answer that question more correctly.
Good evening, members of the board. I'm Lieutenant Roy Cole with the police department. To answer your question, it's going to be for police vehicles only, so it's not going to be for employees to park under there. It's a designated for our special purpose vehicles, like our patrol vessel, our rescue vehicle, our community outreach trailer, golf cart, and side-by-side, just to keep them out of the elements.
No, I have no questions.
Ms. La Russa? No questions. Mr. Rao?
No questions.
I have no questions either. I do want to comment. I note on the plan that you have identified to turtle homes, which are going to be protected.
Yes, they will.
And feel free to name them if you wish.
I'll let the police department handle that one. Yeah, thank you.
Okay, is there anyone from the audience who would like to speak in favor of this request? Anyone who wishes to speak in opposition to this request? Okay. Any further comment from staff?
In consistency with our comp plan and our land development code, staff does recommend approval of this site plan.
Thank you. If there is no further deliberation from the commission, then the chair will entertain a motion.
I make a motion that the police department be approved for their new carport.
Roll call vote, please.
Did we get a second?
I seconded. I didn't know if you heard.
Okay, I did not. Thank you. Mr. Carter?
Yes.
Ms. Pottenberg? Yes. Ms. Kinchin? Yes. Ms. LaRusso? Yes. Mr. Reno? Yes. Mr. Garten?
Yes.
Motion carries.
Thank you.
The next item of business is another quasi-judicial public hearing.
Yes, item B is the recommendation to City Council for a preliminary plat treasure bay planned unit development. DEVELOPMENT OF 148.58 ACRE PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT CONSISTING OF 110 SINGLE FAMILY UNITS PLUS 70 TOWN HOME UNITS WITH PROPOSED STORM WATER AND RECREATIONAL TRACKS, INGRESS AND EGRESS EASEMENTS, NECESSARY PUBLIC BENEFIT IMPROVEMENTS AND PREVIOUSLY AGREED UPON OFF-SITE IMPROVEMENTS. Current zoning is PUDR, a residential planned unit development, and future land use is LDR, low-density residential, up to five units per acre. This also is quasi-judicial. Staff's already been sworn. If anyone else is going to speak on this, if you could stand and raise your right hand, do solemnly swear or affirm the testimony you give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. Thank you.
Okay. Has anybody, any commissioner had any ex parte communication with any of the parties involved? No. Thank you. Okay. If the applicant will please make their presentation.
Good evening.
The right slide.
She's going to pull it up right now. Good evening, Ward. My name is Travis Douglas. I'm a professional engineer with BGE here on behalf of the developer, D.R. Horton, who is also here. We're here to answer any questions after the presentation. I understand you might have seen this presentation a couple times, but I'll go through a couple slides. The project is Treasure Bay, planned unit development. Here is a photo of the area located at 425 Industrial Park Boulevard. Developer, D.R. Horton. BGE as the engineer, and we have surveyor and environmental information there as well. The project overview, planned unit development, proposed 180 residential units, 110 of those being single family, and 70 of those being paired villas. The project is approximately 148 acres. As mentioned, the existing zoning, PUDR, recently approved by the city in November of last year. The future land use or the existing land use is residential load density, also approved November of last year. Here you have an overview of the site that's to be developed on the former sand mine, former Vickers Sand Mine. The project is flood zone X, and there are no environmentally fragile lands. The existing lake, large lake, is going to serve as the stormwater outfall and retention for the site. Very minimal tree removal and relocation is expected, but we have submitted a tree mitigation plan. And water and sewer are provided by the Indian River County Utilities Department. As mentioned, the project is going to meet the low density residential community requirements and the large lake, about 85 acres. The approximate density is 1.21, which is below the five dwelling units per acre requirement. The goal is to provide affordable housing and support the city's goal for infill. Overall, here is the master site plan, which was approved. I'd be happy to answer questions. I know it's kind of hard to read at this scale, but happy to go over a few of the items here on the next couple slides. As part of the PUD approval, we are providing recreation and amenities, both private and publicly available. Some of those include the private recreation is a kayak launch and recreation area. Also included are pickleball courts with a residential playground. Some of the public recreation is included in the east portion of the project, an eight-foot bicycle path that will support the city's connectivity plans for bicycle use. That will extend all the way down to 99th Street on Industrial Park Boulevard. Also included in some of the public recreational spaces is a nice rest area for the bikers that are traveling through the area with a nice community garden and a couple of pavilions. The amenity areas will be submitted as separate site plan applications. And this just goes over some of the public benefits that I've mentioned. The eight foot bicycle pathway on the east property line. The landscape buffers around the project are going to be provided trees, healthy shade trees and seating areas as well. Running through the rec area, we meet the area requirements for all the public and private as well. And the goal is pedestrian access and connectivity all the way from Lance Street and north to Schumann Drive. and I'd be happy to answer any questions that you might have. Here's a list of the team involved. Thank you.
Okay. Staff presentation, please.
Hi, yes. Jim Mann again with Community Development. So today before you, we have the preliminary PLAT approval for the 180-unit planning and development known as Treasure Bay. And I also have a presentation for this as well. All right. So the application type, this is a quasi-judicial hearing. The application type is a preliminary plat. The project name is Treasure Bay PDR. The property owner currently is Dr. Fisher. Our developer on the staff for this is D.R. Horton, and the engineer in record who just spoke is from BG&E Incorporated. So the request summary for this development is requesting an approval for 180-lot planned unit development. Subdivision was 110 single-family units and 70 townhome units. Roughly the size of this project is 148 acres plus or minus. That includes about an 86-acre lake in the center, which used to be an old sand mine. Some off-site improvements and public benefits that they're providing with this PUD, they're going to improve Essex Lane and also as well the Schumann Drive intersection at the end of Essex Lane. They will also provide a public 8-foot-wide bike path or shared-use multimodal path with enhanced landscaping along their landscaping buffer or recreational tract on the eastern portion of the property, all the way from Schumann down to 99th Street. They're also including some public and private amenities, which the applicant has discussed in a previous presentation, like a private being kayak launch, public being like a rest area along that bike path. They're also providing an upgraded force main, which you'll see in one of the slides here, for a utility connection under the FEC railroad to connect to the development and future development around the area. So this conceptual plan to go through PNC and City Council and was officially approved December 3rd of 2025. As you can see the location map there before around the old sand mine north of 99th Street south of Schumann. This is kind of a layout of the development. This will be a phased development. There are two phases proposed. with a mixture of single-family home and villas within each phase. We do have a condition at the end that all the amenities will be built before the first phase is completed, before the second phase can be started to provide the amenities for the development as the second phase begins construction. As you see here, here's some off-site improvements that they have provided. Here is the improvement along Essex Lane. It was provided in the packet. I know you can't really see a lot of the details on this plan, but they are improving the crosswalk, some signage, the pavement, building a new sidewalk along Essex Lane to connect Schumann into the development. And also here is the forest main detail that's going under the FEC to connect to the development. I think they're upgrading it from a 4-inch to an 8-inch, if I'm wrong, Travis. So staff does recommend that the Planning and Zoning Commission forward a favorable recommendation to City Council to approve the planning plat for Treasure Bay with the conditions listed in the staff report. And I can go through those if you wish, but there are I think about nine or ten of those. I don't think we need to read those. So if you guys have any questions, feel free to ask them. I'm here to answer.
Okay. Thank you. We'll start with Mr. Carter. Any questions for either staff or the... No, it was a good presentation.
I really have no questions.
Mr. Gardner? JUST ONE FOLLOW-UP. YOU MENTIONED IT ABOUT THE SIDEWALK. I ASSUME THE BIKE PATH IS SEPARATE FROM THE SIDEWALK AND FOR PEDESTRIAN SAFETY SAKE THE SIDEWALK IMPROVEMENTS, DOES THAT INCLUDE THE ENTIRE PROJECT AS FAR AS HAVING SAFE SIDEWALKS FOR PEDESTRIANS TO USE?
So in the area of the 8-foot bike path on the east side of the main travel way through the road, we have the 8-foot bike path. In addition to that 8-foot bike path on the east side, there is a 5-foot sidewalk on the west side. So sidewalks in both directions.
I have nothing.
Nope.
No questions. Thank you. Mr. Rao?
You have the recreation in phase two. Has the phase line got changed? Because the recreation is in phase two and it has to be completed before phase two starts.
That is a good question, and we'll discuss that with staff. That area that you saw in the Phase 2 is a playground, and it's a walking path as well. So it's mainly going to be in a green open space, not requiring much infrastructure. But we'll discuss that with staff just to see the requirement for that private. That one is a private recreation space.
Some of the lots between 62 and 69 are requiring a retaining wall. Behind the villas, is there any special reason for that? Is it a disturbed area?
Yeah, those areas and that retaining wall will be a landscape decorative block wall simply for the effect of grading down to the lake bank. The lake bank in this sand mine, the slopes of those lake banks are not intended to be altered to the best that we could possibly avoid altering those lake banks themselves. So the purpose behind those lots is just to change the grade to allow for a 15-foot wide maintenance and access easement at a 1 to 10 slope along the lake bank.
So the lake is permitted under St. John's. Do they require like a certain depth? Are you required to make it at a certain depth or maintain a certain depth?
No, no depth requirement was required from St. John's. However, to meet their standards for calculations, we did have to provide anoxic depth calculations just for nutrient removal purposes. But no, there is no maximum or minimum depth requirement.
One more question. You wouldn't know what the hydrant spacing is required for Indian River County. Do you know what their hydrant spacing requirement is? I believe it's 500 feet. 500, okay. I don't have any more questions.
I have no questions either. This was a big read. Thank you for looking it over. Thank you.
Madam Chairman, I have a follow-up question, please. Yes. On those retaining walls, whose responsibility will it be for maintenance and upkeep?
I believe those retaining walls do fall within the property line, the boundary outside of the 15-foot maintenance easement. We haven't established yet if that's going to be the HOA or private developers or private owners. Okay, thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you for bringing that up, Mr. Carter, because having had experience with retaining walls from a legal standpoint for a long, long time in this city, I think we need to be certain that when those particular lots are developed, it is very clearly in the deed who maintains them. Absolutely no question about it. We have a number of properties that are one in particular, a man would like to sell it, but he can't because there's no specific agreement as to who takes care of it. So let's not ever do that again. Okay. I'm going to open the floor to anyone who wishes to speak in favor of this request. Seeing none, we will ask for anyone who wishes to speak in opposition to this request. And there are none. Anybody on Zoom?
There's no one on Zoom.
Thank you.
You're welcome.
Okay.
Do you have any comments for anything that we brought up from the applicant? No additional comments? Okay. Staff summary?
So in conclusion, the proposed 180-unit planning and development subdivision is consistent with our comprehensive plan code of ordinance and our land development code. So staff does recommend the Planning and Zoning Commission forward a favorable, approvable recommendation to City Council to approve the preliminary plat for the Treasure Bay plan unit development following conditions that are listed in the staff report. There are seven conditions listed.
Thank you. Okay. Any additional from the commissioners? Any considerations? The chair will then entertain a motion, please.
I would like to make the motion to recommend to City Council they approve Treasure Bay Planned Unit Development Preliminary Platte, development of 148.58 acres. Planned unit development consisting of 110 single family units plus 70 townhome units with proposed stormwater and recreational tracks, ingress and egress, easements necessary for public benefit improvements, and previously agreed upon offsite improvements. The motion is to include the seven conditions from the staff report and i would like to add an eighth to clarify the ownership and maintenance of the retaining walls okay we have a motion and a second roll call vote please mr carter yes
Ms. Kottenberg? Yes. Ms. Kenjen? Yes. Ms. LaRusso? Yes. Mr. Reno?
Yes.
Mr. Garten? Yes. Motion carries. Thank you.
You answered for me. Thank you.
The next order of business on our agenda is item C. We would like to hear this together at the same time with item D.
Yes, that would be my recommendation because they both require public hearing. You can do that public hearing together. So if you allow me to read both captions, we'll swear everybody in, have one public hearing, and then you can take each one, you know, entertain a motion for each one separately. That is our purpose. Like we did last month. Thank you. ITEM C IS A PUBLIC HEARING RECOMMENDATION TO CITY COUNCIL FOR A LARGE SCALE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN FUTURE LAND USE MAP AMENDMENT FOR TCGFL SEBASTIAN PINES LLC APPLICANT An amendment to the Comprehensive Plan Future Land Use Map for property containing 204.42 acres, more or less, known as the Sebastian Pines, located east of 74th Avenue, west of 66th Avenue, south of 77th Street, and north of 73rd Street, existing FUTURE LAND USE IS COUNTY AG 1, AGRICULTURE, ONE UNIT FOR FIVE ACRES. REQUESTED FUTURE LAND USE IS VLDR, VERY LOW DENSITY RESIDENTIAL, THREE UNITS PER ACRE. AND THEN THE NEXT, THE ITEM AFTER THAT IS ITEM D, which is a public hearing quasi-judicial. This is a recommendation to City Council for rezoning conceptual planned unit development PUD plan for Sebastian Pines. TCGFL Sebastian Pines LLC applicant Subject parcels is 204.42 acres, more or less, 390 single-family units plus 112 paired villas, 2.45 units per acre, located east of 74th Avenue, west of 66th Avenue, south of 77th Street, and north of 73rd Street. Current zoning is Indian River County A1, Agriculture 1, which is... Five units per acre? Dwelling units? Is that what they used? Dwelling units? Okay. And the requested zoning, city zoning, will be PUDR, Planned Unit Development Residential. And this, because the second, last one is a quasi-judicial, staff's been sworn, but if anyone else wishes to speak on this, you can raise your hand. Do you solemnly swear or affirm the testimony you give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? Thank you.
Thank you. And have any of the commissioners had any ex parte communications with any of the parties involved?
Thank you. Applicant, please make your presentation.
Oh, I won't touch it. I'll just start talking while we're getting the computer going. Does that sound fair? Good evening. My name is Ken Toome. I'm with Urban Design Studio. We're the landscape architect and the planner on the subject property. I've been sworn in this evening, and it's a pleasure, Chair and board members, to be in front of you again this evening. What is in front of you this evening is Sebastian Pines. IT'S THE FIRST TIME THAT THIS PLAN HAS BEEN IN FRONT OF THIS BOARD. HOWEVER, IT HAS ALREADY BEEN IN FRONT OF THE CITY COUNCIL FOR ANNEXATION AND AN ANNEXATION AGREEMENT. So the subject property, and I'm going to walk you through this in more detail through the slideshow, but the subject property is 204 acres. It was recently annexed into the city of Sebastian, and it also has an annexation agreement as a party to that. That annexation agreement has a couple stipulations, and that stipulation is that we come before the land planning agency, which is what you're serving as right this second during the land use change, to request a land use change to very low residential, which allows up to three dwelling units per acre in the city of Sebastian. And the second part of the annexation agreement is that we come before you with a PUDR, which is the second part of this presentation, which is a quasi-judicial matter in front of you. So I've got about 10 slides. I'm going to be the primary speaker this evening, and I'm going to ask Mr. Collins to get up in a few minutes, who's the developer, so you get the opportunity to meet who will actually be building this site. So the team that is here, I'm happy to answer any questions you may have. We have Mr. Collins and his development team. Mr. Collins, it's a family business, so you'll meet some family members tonight. If you'd like to have several of them get up to speak. I apologize. Mr. Mills is here from Mills Short. He is the civil engineer on the site. One second. Well, hey, we're married, too. This is our landscape architect, Ms. Toomer. Thank you. Who works with urban design also? We have Mr. Lambert here, our civil engineer. Mr. Rodenbeck is here from Dills Evans. He's our land use attorney. And, of course, we have Mr. Meckling here from Insight Solutions. He is the owner representative. So the subject site, as I said, is 2.4 acres. It was annexed into the city on May 13th, and then the annexation agreement was approved on April 8th. So the request that is in front of you is to change to very low residential density and then also to rezone the property to PUDR. What is not in front of you, what was just in front of you on the previous application was a preliminary plat. We have to come back in front of you for each plat that we do on the subject site. Also as part of this application, we are providing you a conceptual PUD development plan. That's a master plan that outlines the parameters of the site. So the subject site on the screen in front of you is the 204 acres. You can see that is an existing former Orange Grove site. And then you'll notice the location south of 77th and north of 73rd Street and just east of 74. Identified in the screen on the left-hand side is the Graves property. The Graves property is within the city of Sebastian. And so is the subject site is also within the city of Sebastian. THE EXISTING LAND USE IS IN THE AGRICULTURAL HU1. THE REQUEST IS TO GO TO VERY LOW-DENSITY RESIDENTIAL, WHICH ALLOWS UP TO THREE DWELLING UNITS PER ACRE. THIS PARTICULAR SITE, WHEN WE GET TO THE MASTER PLAN, IS RESTRICTED TO 2.45 DWELLING UNITS PER ACRE. WE'RE USING ABOUT 82% OF THE AVAILABLE DENSITY IN THAT LAND USE CATEGORY. The subject site from a zoning perspective is A1 today, and the request is a change to a PUDR or a planned unit development. So I'm going to ask Mr. Collins to get up and talk a little bit about Envision, and hopefully my voice will be a little bit better, and I'll come back and walk you through the rest of the information.
Thank you.
Thanks, Ken. You better keep the water up here for me. I'm hoping I can do okay here this evening. Madam Chairwoman, members of the commission, my name is Will Collins. I'm the managing principal of the Concordia Group. We're a development firm that operates throughout the east coast of the country, and we're thrilled to be here and the opportunity to present this project to you tonight. Before I TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE PROJECT. WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO SAY IS THAT THIS IS GOING TO BE OUR FIRST ENTRY INTO THE CITY. AND I THINK IT NEEDS TO BE SAID, WE WOULD NOT BE HERE TONIGHT WITHOUT THE COLLABORATION, THE GUIDANCE, AND THE KINDNESS OF SHARING THEIR VISION FOR THIS COMMUNITY WITHOUT the staff of the city. They have been wonderful to us. They have given us the vision both from a planning standpoint as well as architectural amenities, trails, all those things that you will see here tonight that Ken will present really came from the vision that was provided by your staff. They have been wonderful to collaborate with and I am so appreciative of their efforts and it should be noted of how good they are to work with. The next thing I do want to state is that, you know, when you come in from working in other areas of the country and you come into a community, a new community, you better come in with a level of humility and a recognition that you need local expertise. no matter what you think you've done in the past or what you hope to do in the future, unless you have folks that actually live here, work here, have history here, you will not be successful unless you do everything you can to bring their expertise into this process. And I've been so fortunate, us and our team, to work with the folks such as John Roadback, Wes Mills, Ken and Wendy Tuma, Luke Lambert, We have been so fortunate to be able to work with them. I appreciate their friendship, but more importantly, just our local expertise. And this plan would not be where it is today without all their knowledge. I also want to thank Chuck Meckling. Got the opportunity to meet Chuck when we first started working on this project. He has been a wonderful friend and a collaborator with us. I'm proud to say that he's going to be working with us on this project throughout its development. I look at what he's done at the Spirit of Sebastian, and we just hope to build off of that. We think that is just... wonderful quality development. And we think that this plan hopefully will be not only a reflection of the quality that Chuck's done, but also in terms of amenity packages, we're hoping that with Chuck's assistance, we can develop the type of project that the city truly deserves. And I am so appreciative of Chuck for all his cooperation with me and his friendship. We're excited about this community. We have worked with staff diligently to create unique and upscale architecture for both the homes as well as the amenity centers. We have worked hard to develop a variety of product types from villas to single families that we think will appeal to a broad spectrum, from first-time homebuyers to families to potentially we will have some empty nesters. But the concept behind this project is to have a broad variety of housing types that we can bring the broadest demographic profile to this community. I think I'd like to turn this back over to Ken, and I'm happy to answer any questions you might have at the end of the presentation, but we're extremely proud of the work that we have before you tonight. We think from a design standpoint, it meets the vision that was set out by staff from the width of the streets to the entrance features. We've taken guidance from gotten input from council in terms of having two means of ingress, egress to spread traffic out. I think this will be just a wonderful addition to the city. And I am so appreciative of your time tonight. But I think Ken can give a better detail on this. And I'm happy to answer any questions. But once again, I so appreciate you allowing us to make this presentation this evening. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Collins, in allowing me to get my voice back. So on the front of you, I'm going to jump to the next slide. This is a little bit more detailed. The subject site is 502 units. It's a mix of product type. There are three product types that are being proposed. And just to walk you through some of the big concepts of the site, first thing, as Mr. Collins indicated, there are two entrance points, one to the north and one to the south. They are similar in level of design. They are similar level of ingress and ingress. we expect traffic to be equally diverted between those two a lot of thought process went into those it will be a gated entry feature into the community there's a 6.85 acre amenity parcel here a very significant amenity parcel for the site for the 502 units i'm going to show you some potential images of that while it's not in front of you this evening we're going to give you a flare of where mr collins is headed his design for that subject site and then you you work your way into the center of the community there are lake overlooks and then also a critical part of the design was how to make walkability for the residents here as mr collins indicated we do expect this to be a primary residence however there will be some retirees we expect it to be a pretty significant walking community there are there are sidewalks on both sides of road one of the things that we decided to do early on with the amenity center is create a land bridge so there's a connection point between the amenity center to help alleviate and help folks walk to the site from around without having to go all the way around. So there's been a lot of thought put into how the water system works, how stormwater management becomes an important part of the design of the site, and also how the road network is broken up to create great views and vistas for people within the community. Allow me to walk you through a few more details of the site. So this is, again, concept has to come back in front of you, but I just want to give you an image of what Mr. Collins is expecting to construct on that amenity center. He has some very good ideas. He intends to create a really beautiful club for those residents of that subject site. So this is the actual plan that you're approving tonight, less the site data. So this is a conceptual PUD development plan. The plan shows the site data being 204 acres, 0.42, and then it shows 502 units, 2.46 dwelling units per acre. The cap is three dwelling units per acre in this land use. However, our annexation agreement and what Mr. Collins promised everyone, said we are going to do 502 units. We have that 6.5 acre amenity and 55% open space. And I know you're all aware how open space works within the city, but we have approximately 104 acres of open space on this site at 55%. A portion of that is equated within the lot area. As you know, you're counting approximately 30% of each individual lot as part of that open space calculation. SO FROM A CONSTRUCTION STANDPOINT AND ACCESS STANDPOINT, FIRST ROADWAY, THE PRIMARY ACCESS IS GOING TO BE 66 AVENUE AND WE ARE GOING TO BE PAVING FROM 66 AVENUES TO THE EMERGENCY EXIT ON THE WEST SIDE ON 77TH AND THE SAME THING ON 73rd. AND MR. MILLS IS HERE AND CAN ADDRESS ANY SPECIFIC QUESTIONS ABOUT THAT, BUT WE WILL BE CONSTRUCTING THAT INFRASTRUCTURE. FROM AN INGRESS AND EGRESS, ON THE SCREEN IN FRONT OF YOU, YOU'LL NOTE THE ARROWS. The two larger arrows, of course, are the main access points. The concept on those main access points and that roundabout is to divert traffic. People are going to take the easiest route to get to their community, and we believe that a portion of the project will come from the south and a portion will come from the north. And then also you'll see there are two emergency ingress-egress points on the east side and on the west side. Buffers, we have a significant buffer. As you're aware, at a PUD, you will provide a buffer. We're providing a 50-foot buffer here along the north side of the property, a 30-foot buffer on the east side of the property. Within that buffer, there's an 8-foot path. Along the south side, there's a 50-foot buffer adjacent to the residential to the south. It goes to 30 feet here where it goes around the out parcel, and then it's 30 feet along the western buffer of the subject site. So what does that buffer look like? That buffer is going to be heavily landscaped. We're proposing a berm in that buffer, a two to three foot high berm, a significant amount of landscaping throughout this subject site, a 50-foot buffer. There will also be a walkway. There's a condition of approval where the eight-foot walkway goes, and we're going to work through staff as we come back before you on the next part of the project, which will be actually your preliminary plan where all the details will be discussed. And then this is a 30-foot buffer. Again, you can get a feel of what the landscaping is going to look like for that 30-foot buffer. And then it also has a small berm and then creates that hedge-like structure. Internal to the community is a 50-foot road section. So the road section driving through the communities or going on to the residential streets, it's a 50-foot road section. You'll notice that we have street trees on both sides. There's a sidewalk on both sides. A lot of thought went into this with Mr. Mills, where those street trees will actually go. So we get them closer to the road to create that shading. And it's always a challenge because of where water lines go, sewer lines go, and where FPL goes. We spent some time working on that with Mr. Mills. And I think this is a great concept on how to create that 50-foot right-of-way. The next one's the 80-foot section. If you recall in the master plan, there's kind of that main road that went right through the center of the site. That will be an 80-foot section. It'll be both divided and undivided, depending on where it is in the cross section. Again, you'll note sidewalks on both sides of the road, street trees all the way along the center of the site. And then same thing on the undivided section creates that same field. Open space. Open space is really important. Open space identified in green, 114 acres or 55% of the property will be open space. A significant amount of lakes, a large amenity center, and you'll note all the other open space throughout the breakup and provide views of different areas within the community. And so this is the actual breakdown of the unit type. So there are two types. There are actually three types of products being proposed. Two of them are single-family, so there's 309 single-family homes and 112 paired villas. Okay, Ken, what's a paired villa? So a paired villa, I grew up in Ohio. A paired villa is a duplex. They're a single wall, and I'll show you what that looks like in a second. So there are two types of single-family home lots. These are larger lots, and you'll typically see, and deeper lots, and you'll typically see. So the width of the lot is 64 feet, and the depth is 130 feet. And you'll note that both side setbacks are 7 feet for the entire project. So that means wall to wall, the closest point would be 14 feet between homes. And then we have a 54 by 130 lot is a secondary size or the smaller size. Again, seven foot setback. I also would like you to take a look here along the front. We have a good design concept that I like. We're going to have the front area of the house can go to 15 feet, but the garage face. It has to be a minimum of 20 feet. So that allows a house projection, for example, where your entrance is to come out a little bit further, and it pushes the garage door back, so it will look really nice. And on the right-hand side are the 37 feet by 130 feet. These are the paired villas. It's two homes with a common wall in that area. So some quick concepts. I'm sorry, typical setbacks. I walked you through that on the other slide. So the garage setback on a front load, minimum of 20 feet. And then the side setbacks are seven feet going throughout the project and the lock coverage and all the other information is on the screen in front of you. Again, concepts, but these are built homes that Mr. Collins has worked on before. And this is kind of where the flair of the architecture is headed. And so, for example, I had mentioned some driveway or garage doors would be pushed back a little bit further. If you look at that middle drawing, it kind of gives that concept of where the front of the house is like five feet out and the garage is five feet further back. It creates a nice look. And on the right-hand side are the paired villas that give you an idea of how those will function. So conceptual utilities, Mr. Mills is here and can certainly answer any specific questions, but I'm going to walk you through this very quickly. We have a connection to a water line extension along 77th, And then we have a sanitary force main extension down 77th, and that all goes out to 66 where it connects to existing utilities. And then along the bottom, we have a secondary connection, which goes out to 66 along 73 to create a loop. So we've spent some time. Mr. Mills has worked with Indian River, who is the utility provider here, and has come up with a conceptual plan that has been approved. Transportation, Mr. Lambert is here. Yes, there will be more trips on the road. The trips being proposed on this site are 342 a.m. peak hour trips and 425 p.m. peak hour trips. The improvements that are on site include a 180-foot road. westbound left turn lane at the main entrance. So when you're driving in on the left-hand side, you'll have a turn lane. And then the off-site mitigation basically all occurs at the intersection of 66 and 77. A lot of words on the screen. Left-hand turn lane, right-hand turn lane is what we're doing. They're 180 feet or 280 feet deep, depending which one it is. And with that, I'm happy to answer any questions, and I appreciate you being flexible with me a little bit earlier. Thank you.
Thank you. Commissioners, any questions of staff or the presenter? Mr. Carter, no. I just.
Just one forethought. I'm glad you're putting the turn lanes in. One of my main concerns was with the magnet school that's just down the street there. Obviously, traffic is going to be extremely heavy during the a.m. hours as well as in the afternoon. People take using that route for the schools. Of course, people go into Vero Beach. One question for you. What is some of your concerns for handling like during the construction period while you're building those turn lanes with
vehicles going in and out. So, for example, I'll have Mr. Mills come up and discuss kind of like what the MOB or the maintenance of traffic and how that would work in that area. Yeah, I'll ask Mr. Mills to respond to that, but the short answer is the good news is we have some time, and this is a construction project. We'll take a significant amount of time. There's a lot of earthwork that has to be moved internally in the project, so we'll create a long time period to be able to phase that construction in. Okay.
Ms. Kinsham? No. No question.
Mr. Rayl? Just a few. I guess the first one's for staff. Have we done zoning changes on the Graves Brothers property yet?
This is Jim Hammond, Community Development. Currently, we have not done the zoning change, but we have approved a zoning district that would be conducive to the Graves Brothers site.
Okay. Most of this project narrative references the grave properties zoning, so that's why I was kind of curious. As far as street trees goes, you are talking about one tree per lot for street trees. Is that going to be in addition to the trees that are required at each lot? So maybe if we require two per house, it'll be three trees?
Yes, sir. So when we come back in front of you, we'll have the preliminary development plan. We're going to have all those worked out. And I promise you, the landscape architect on this project is going to do a good job.
OK. You also mentioned you have examples of concurrency. Could you give me an example of concurrency? Because you mentioned that you met all the concurrency requirements. The only thing I read in the narrative was some stormwater concurrency.
I'll ask Mr. Mills to get up because he can articulate that a little bit better.
Good evening. Wesley Mills, Mills Short and Associates. I'm the engineer record for the project. As it relates to concurrency, so we met with Indian River County Utility Department. We provided them with all of our demand data and analyzed their system as far as connection points and things like that. They provided us with will serve letters basically stating that they currently have capacity in their system for our demand. And as we work through the development we'll submit design plans to them and things like that. But from a concurrency perspective we did receive those will serve letters from the county. As far as traffic goes, we've submitted methodology to Indian River County, and we've also got our TIA report, which is the improvements that Ken had mentioned earlier. Those are all driven from that traffic analysis to ensure that we have concurrency and we don't decrease the level of service on the roadway system. I don't have any more questions. I'm happy if you want me to elaborate on the MOT for temporary construction. So So as part of the construction, what we'll have to do is, special design engineer that all they do is traffic maintenance plans and how the roadways will be shut down. Those plans will be designed and submitted to the county, and they're ever-changing based on what phase of construction we're going through. And the county will review those MOT plans and then come back to us and say, okay, you can shut down the road, but it can only be done during these hours, and we'll have to abide by DOT standards for how we maintain traffic with cones and signal flag men and things like that. Thank you. Thank you.
And I kind of skipped the order on my little cheat sheet here. So now please, staff, make your presentation. And you're limited to 30 minutes.
I'll see if I can go past that mark. Again, my name is Jim Mann, Community Development. Again, this is an application for a large-scale comp plan amendment. The application number is up there on the top. For a project named Sebastian Pines, as you saw in the presentation, the owner is TCGFL Sebastian Pines LLC, Engineer Records, Mills, Schwartz & Associates. Like I said, the request is a large scale. It's going from any River County AG1 agricultural to a very low-density residential, and the acreage of this site is 204 plus or minus acres. There's a location map of the subject site, which you saw in the applicant's presentation. It's just located east of the Graves Brothers annexation property. So the existing... Flu of the site, the future land use is agricultural 81 for any River County and is proposed to be LDR, a very low density residential, which is up to three units per acre. So in our complaint we have a description of that policy, very low density residential development. They're designated the maximum of the three units per acre for single family detached homes. For comp plan consistency, it does meet all the criteria and the applicable elements, including the following, future land use, traffic, coastal management, housing, recreation, conservation, intergovernmental coordination. The recommendation from staff is to change the flu designation from AG1 to VLDR and it's consistent with our comprehensive plan policies for very low residential development and allocating residential development in the future land use map and as such staff supports the recommendation of approval to the city council from the local planning agency. So what we'll do now I'll go ahead and start the next portion of it and we'll go into the conceptual site plan and we can come back to any questions that you may have on the flu which have already been pretty much is asked and answered so the next hearing is the or the next item is the quasi judicial portion of it this is the rezoning and the conceptual plan for the actual site. Again, it's Sebastian Pines, same owner, same engineer record. So the request is to zone this as a conceptual PUD, and it would be from a one agricultural, which is Indian River County's explanation for the zoning, to a PUDR, a planned unit development residential. And the acreage size is still 204 acres. This is a The location, it's east of the Grays Brothers, south of 77th, north of 73rd, west of 66th. So the total proposed is 502 units consisting of 390 single family homes and 112 paired villas. You got a very good description from Mr. Tuma on what paired villas are. And the requested density is no more than three units per acre. Matching the future use request is at 2.45 units per acre. The recreation open space for this plan is required by our PUD regulations that up to 50% is dedicated to open space. They are matching that with a 55% allocation to open space. In lieu of a public park, given the Area of where this development is they are going to provide a recreation in lieu for a public benefit so that monies that they Determine and we will actually review some of the criteria for that Those monies will be put into other recreational aspects around the city some of the other public benefits that they're providing with this PD and they're going to extend the utility infrastructure that you saw on the approved utility plan. They are going to pay 73rd and 77th Street all the way up to 66, and with the necessary improvements, and that will be coordinated with any River County, their public works department. There is a condition in here that they have to meet the specifications for Green Book or FDM, whatever the county is using at the time, that they have to meet those requirements for payments. There's also a public 8-foot wide multimodal path along the southern and eastern perimeter in their landscaping buffer, in which you saw the enhanced landscaping detail earlier. They will provide the 8-foot path within that when they provide the preliminary plot. And some other matters on the site, there's not too many. Some of the So as the developer is going through the size requirements for the lots and the setbacks and everything like that, and what they can do with the PUD conceptual plan or the PUD zoning is they can either increase the size or decrease the size of the lot and reduce the setbacks as necessary. And in lieu, they can provide public benefits in which they are providing. Here's the proposed conceptual plan that we received for the application. As you saw, probably a better picture in the applicant's presentation, a little more colorful than this one. And here is the site plan. This shows the site layout of all the lots and where the paired villas will be located. And as you see, the paired villas are more towards the center of the actual development on the south side and then the center. And with this, staff recommends that the Planning and Zoning Commission forward a favorable recommendation to City Council to approve the request of rezoning and approve the conceptual PUD development plan for Sebastian Pines with the conditions that we have listed in the staff report. There are... Let's see. There are seven conditions, just like the Treasure Bay application. If there are any more that want to be suggested, we will take that into consideration. But that is our stance. And if you have any questions, feel free to ask.
Thank you. Do any of the commissioners have any questions of staff? Okay. Thank you. I am now going to call... for anyone from the floor who would like to speak in favor of this development. Please come forward and identify yourself. Seeing no one. Is there anyone here who would like to speak in opposition to this development? Please come forward and identify yourself.
Good evening. Hi. My name is Greg McCoy. I do not live in the city of Sebastian, though right now I am building a home directly south of this development in the Equus neighborhood, which is off of 69th. So it literally backs up to the development. If someone was to come out south entrance and forget to hit the brakes, they'll be in my backyard if they jump the canal. I hope that never happens. I am 100% for giving individuals the opportunity to have a safe and clean environment to live in. Low-income, new homeowners, I'm 100% for that, as I am also a licensed Florida contractor that builds custom homes, that does a lot of heavy remodels and so forth in the city as well as the county. My main concern is what it will do to the property values of those residents that are directly adjacent or near that. We see this as a developer and with this background that I have all throughout the county where homes that are surrounded by low-income homes or homes that really are not taken care of and they are very low-dense, we don't see those property values increasing. They are suppressed. And that is a huge concern that I have as a new homeowner that is just building a new home in that area. And I am curious about what the home values are going to be in this development, what they're going to cost new homeowners or someone coming in to buy these homes or these villas. And there's also agricultural activity around here. There's people with cattle, people with honey. There's still a lot of agricultural activity surrounding these properties, and I know they have huge concerns as well, and I've spoken to some of those. So I would like to hear that addressed from the Concordia group, which I applaud for bringing something to this area, but this may not be the area. So I'd like to hear what this... what they're planning to the cost of these homes to be when someone wants to come in and buy something here is it a 200 is it a 500 000 home what are the bill of costs going to be that sort of thing good question thank you thank you anyone else
Hi, I'm Beth McCoy. I'm the other half speaking now. And apologies, I do wear this to work, so I came straight from work. But I'm not here as really for or against. I'm here to say that I didn't know the city of Sebastian was coming to the backyard that I don't even get to live in yet. I didn't know all this was going on. I found out all of it was going on from a letter that you sent me. And it mentioned maybe higher density development, so that's what intrigued me. And now the presentation is back to the very low development. I did all I could to figure out what was going on. Everyone else around here seems to know what's happening in their backyard, but I didn't know. But I most, I think... interested in how I'm going to stay informed of what's happening. As I see that map up there, I say, is that driveway going to shine its lights into my backyard? Is that buffer of trees that they say they're going to put up going to happen sooner or later, to your point about let's bake it in up front? There are feral hogs running the area right now off that property, I believe, into my yard that I'm developing. There's noise. There's everything that goes with construction. So it's going to happen. Why it's happening here at this point, especially when I'm seeing a map that doesn't even consider 74th as a potential access point, that's the contiguous side with the city of Sebastian. But there's no plans for a road there yet. So anyway, I just really am more concerned about how I'm going to stay abreast of it going forward. and that it'll be managed properly, because I'm going to live off 66 right now, and I'm at a stoplight. Now you've got two more roads coming out, no stoplight. This is a thoroughfare. This is people trying to get east-west. So it is what it is. I'm a child of Atlanta, Georgia, for whatever you think of that. That is the capital of sprawl. I get it. This is higher development in a very low density area with, again, agricultural activity still going on. And it just, it's going to happen so early. I just hope there's a lot more considerations for tamping down. It's not some standard development. They can kind of do whatever they want because it'll disrupt the area. And it's a concern, especially finding out about it like so late in the game. Our house isn't even built. And they've done all this planning in the same time frame. and had all these meetings in the same timeframe and we haven't even moved in. So anyway, I don't even know my neighbors. I don't even know what they think, but I just wanted to say not for or against it's gonna happen, but please more serious considerations. Everything around there is not a suburban development. So thank you.
Thank you. Thank you for your work. Anyone else?
My name's Stanley Crawford. I live just adjacent to the 73rd Street. I'm right on 73rd Street. I've been here for over 20 years. I'm concerned about what the price is, too, of the properties, because the lower the price, the more trash we're going to get in, if you will. If you look at St. Lucie, Martin County and Indian River County have always tried to stay low density. St. Lucie is the opposite. And that's where all the crime is, is in that county. A lot of it. More so than those two counties. I know it's going to happen like she said. If you look on 58th Avenue, if you guys are familiar, 58th Avenue and A Street, those houses are This far apart. I think the city of the county commissioners have said, we're not going to allow that to happen anymore. Now, these are 14 feet apart. I mean, the place looks, it's disgusting looking. And anyhow, it'd be nice if we could tone it down a little bit and not have so many houses in there. That's my, I know it's going to be built. Somebody owns it and all that, so. If we could tone it down and not have so many houses in there or have them further apart, it would be helpful. Anyhow.
Thank you, sir. Is there anyone else? Anyone on Zoom?
No one has raised their hand.
Thank you. Would the applicant like to respond?
Thank you again. Ken Tuma and Mr. Collins will come up and help me if I get myself in trouble. But first thing, Mr. and Mrs. McCoy, thank you for your comments. And I think that they're all good comments. This has been properly noticed and has been, unfortunately, maybe because you were moving into your house. We've been through the process, and I know that Mr. Collins will reach out to you. We understand it's important to meet with our neighbors, and we will do that, number one. Number two, in regards to kind of the concept about price range and cost, that hasn't been finalized. but it'll be between $400,000 and $800,000. That's just the market of where it is today. Mr. Collins could attest to that. So these are going to be fairly, I'll use the word affordable, but expensive homes in the big picture of things. And then also in regards to what Stanley said, we are definitely, it's important for us, these will be a clean community. It will be a homeowner association. It will be properly managed. These folks will be investing in their whole life in this community, and we expect it to be well-maintained and managed throughout the period of time. And in regards to the feral animals and stuff, yes, there's farmlands out there as we get into development, and we'll be able to clean that up. And I'm happy to answer any questions you may have.
Okay. Yes, thank you. Does the staff have any additional response?
Not at this time, but I would just like to say that the requested land use from AG1 to VLDR and the requested rezoning from the existing county A1 to the city's PUDR are both consistent with our comprehensive plan, our code of ordinances, and our land development code. And we do... request approval of both. The rezoning and the conceptual plan do have some conditions of approval established with them, and we request approval of those conditions of approval for the rezoning and conceptual PUD.
Thank you. Commissioners, we'll start with Mr. Carter. Any deliberations? Any comments?
No comments.
Okay.
Mr. Gardner.
No comments.
I have nothing.
No comments.
That leaves it up to me. I have comments. I don't know exactly where we got low income impression coming from. And perhaps it's Perhaps it has something to do with using the word affordable, and we all make the assumption that affordable means you have low income. Affordable is important to people with high income as well. And I know that the density that is being established here is less than what the city would normally require. And I do want to assure you that the city of Sebastian is diligent when it comes to making sure that the criteria is met. And while the city has established specific criteria, we expect every development to meet that minimum criteria. This is one of the developments that goes beyond the minimums. So that's the end of my comments. If we have no other comments, then we need to entertain a motion. And we have two motions. And they should come not together, but separately.
I'll make a motion to recommend City Council approve the Large-Scale Comprehensive Plan Future Land Use Map Amendment, TCGFL, Sebastian Pines, LLC. Let me get... An amendment to the Comprehensive Plan Future Land Use Map for property containing 204.42 acres, more or less, known as Sebastian Pines, located east of 74th Avenue, west of 66th Avenue, south of 77th Street, and north of 73rd Street. Existing future land use, County AG-1-107. unit per five acres requested future land use vldr very low density residential three dwelling units per acre i'll second it okay we have a motion and a second call vote please mr reno yes mr carter yes
Ms. Kottenberg? Yes. Ms. Kinchen? Yes. Ms. LaRusso? Yes. Mr. Garten?
Motion carries.
Thank you. Now we need to have our second motion.
Madam Chairman, I'll make a motion that we recommend to City Council rezoning and slash conceptual plan unit development. PUD plan, Sebastian Pines. TCGFL, Sebastian Pines LLC. Subject of parcel is 204.42 acres. 390 single family units plus 112 paired villas. 2.45 units per acre. Located east of 74th Avenue, west of 66th Avenue, south of 77th Street, and north of 73rd Street. Current zoning is Indian River County A-1 Agricultural. Five units per acre. Requested zoning is PUDR unit. plan unit development residential with the seven conditions recommended by staff.
We have a motion and a second. Roll call vote, please.
Mr. Carter?
Ms. Kottenberg? Yes. Ms. Kinchin? Yes. Ms. LaRusso? Yes. Mr. Reno? Yes. And Mr. Garten?
Motion carries. Thank you.
Thank you, commissioners.
Okay. We have no unfinished business. Number nine is new business, and we have no new business. But we have a 9.5 issue. Asking. It's not on here, but one of our commissioners has let us know that there's something he would like to bring to our attention. So, Mr. Carter?
Yes, I have a couple questions at request of staff, anyway. On the... On the... The weeks that we are normally scheduled for meetings, and if we don't have a meeting, can you send an email out to each commissioner letting us know, in fact, there's not a meeting? And also, the sign out front of City Hall, make sure that reflects that there's no meeting. The last time we had no meeting, none of that was done. And the second request I had, I don't know if y'all were here, but several years ago, the city gave us some sun visors for our automobiles. And I've used mine since day one, and it's a rag now. And I didn't know if there was any more around. Okay. Do you remember that, Louise?
Let me just comment that I've used mine, but sometimes I feel that it has... outsmarted me, so to speak.
I know, yeah, it does. It'll do that.
It's worse than trying to refold an old-fashioned map. Remember those?
Yeah. But anyway. Thank you, staff. By the way, again, y'all do a great job, and I'm glad that Mr. Collins, the gentleman, pointed that out. I don't know if he was giving lip service or not, but y'all do a great job looking out for the city and presenting that information to us, so thank you.
Okay, going to break Louise's rule.
Thank you. I, too, I'm... Although this thing, I think, weighed about 14 pounds, it was definitely a good read. Yes. By the time I got done with it, it was like, well.
You should thank the staff member, Michelle, who delivered it. She had to carry all those.
I definitely broke a sweat on this one.
She had a workout.
I carried it. And I had to carry mine around for two days before I got through it. I was like, this darn thing is heavy. Thank you. You've done a great job. And I know that a tremendous amount of work has gone into all of the things we addressed tonight, which is why we were able to get it done so quickly. Thank you very much.
Yes. With that, the meeting is adjourned. Thank you. Thanks again, staff.
This transcript was automatically generated from the official public meeting video and is presented unedited. It reflects remarks made on the public record by elected officials, staff, and public commenters. Transcript accuracy may vary; view the original recording for reference.