City Council - Regular Meeting

Um, I think Mark Hill is the fairy godfather here and you know, he's done a lot. So, we're kind of like the the old guard. He and I, we're the old mama and papa. And, you know, he does as much on his end as I do on mine. I I can't say I mean, he really is my cohort in crime. And, uh, so, you know, there's always somebody out there willing to listen. There's always somebody out there willing to help, you know, if you're if you need anything, you can just reach out. somebody will be there, you know, if you can find us, we're there. Um, and can you think of anything else that um you'd like to share about your experiences um within Savannah's community?

Well, you know, I talked a little bit about my neighborhood. Um I have been the president of Kensington Park Neighborhood Association for about 15 years, I guess. Um they told me that I'm either going to have to die or find my own replacement to get out of the job. and uh nobody's nobody's stepping up and I'm not laying down so I guess I'm here for the duration. But it's it's been a it's been a lot of fun, a lot of challenge. Um it's helped me a lot to you know get to know the city and the the work the inner workings of the city. Um there's always bureaucracy that has to go we have to go through to make sure our neighborhood gets the attention that it needs. So you know it's it's a lot it can be a lot of work but it's it's good work and it's for a good cause. And I mean, I guess that's just me, you know. Um, you know, in the 60s there was an expression, if not now, when, if not me, who? And I think I took that to heart and I've lived my life that way. And and I'm grateful for that opportunity.

All right. Um, anything else you wanted to speak to or do you feel like you I don't know. I think I pretty much All right. All right. Well, thank you very much for sharing your history with us today. Thank you so much. And thank you to the wonderful city of Savannah for doing this. Thank you for making sure that the history that we've worked so hard to achieve will be recorded for posterity and that someday a hundred years from now when somebody opens up this crazy time capsule that they can remember I'm that crazy lady from Savannah and uh thank you all for doing this. Thank you. Thank you. [music]

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Savannah city council members VR Johnson II mayor [music] Carol Bell post one at large Alicia Miller Blakeley host two at large. Bernetta Belainer, District 1. Dietrich Leot, District 2, Linda Wilder, Brian, District 3. Nick Palumbo, [music] District 4. Dr. Estella Edwards [music] Shabbaz, District 5. Curtis Peri, District 6.

[clears throat] as we start our workshop. Our first item on the agenda, sir.

Yes, ma'am. Uh good morning. Uh great to be with you. We've got a lot of um important workshop discussions today. Um and so hopefully we can move through um with some efficiency here. Uh first, uh we're going to talk through our equity framework. Of course, Savannah GPS, our strategic plan, um council adopted equity as its guiding value. There were other values, but equity was its guiding value. Um and from that we had our wonderful consultants from B culture um work with us to develop a equity framework that we could use to um view equity and what that means from a municipal service delivery standpoint and how we might measure our ability to provide better equity in our community um through that framework. So we'll begin um with a talk on equity framework. uh we'll move through a discussion about a procurement strategy and project delivery method that we are um using more and more these uh days called construction manager at risk seymar. I'm going to give an update on that as well. We will do an update um on the first several months of operation um from the new urban uh uh camping ordinance that council adopted on June 12th earlier this year. And I also believe um that we would uh recommend a um executive session as well. So a few things to work through today. Um so without further ado um please let me welcome uh James Whitfield of U B Culture um who's going to walk us through a presentation and and begin the discussion today about our equity framework. Thank you James.

Thank you. Right. Well, hello everyone. It is good to see you again. My name is James Whitfield and I'm going to walk us through the equity implementation framework. Uh before I do anything else, I would like to start with a series of appreciations. Uh the first goes actually to the council because without your clear direction as city manager just said that you wanted equity to be the guiding principle for the strategic plan. We wouldn't be having this conversation today. Uh a second is to uh the community advisory group. We're going to talk a little bit more about them, but they are in the room. They actually did the heavy lifting in order to make this happen. We facilitated. So, if you're a member of the community advisory group uh in the room, just raise your hand. Excellent. We had several. The list uh of the full uh group is uh is there. Uh I want to appreciate the city manager uh and the city manager's office for coming up with the clear direction uh to ensure that um the way that Savannah GPS is implemented will center equity by having this additional uh equity implementation framework. Uh and then um lots of appreciation for the rest of the leadership team uh here at Savannah for all of their help. Uh and then last but certainly not least uh for Dr. Teesha Brown who was uh our ride or die on this project. So [laughter] thank you. Thank you, Dr. B. [applause] Okay. All right. And I probably just like with the Oscars, I probably forgot to thank somebody like my mom or something. Okay. So, uh here's what we're going to do. Uh we were told uh to move briskly through our presentation. So I'm going to do that. Uh our topics we're going to cover is a process review like what did we do and then we're going to get into an over

uh an overview of the uh implementation framework and leave some uh some time for questions and clarifications. So here's a process review. Uh our objectives were to ensure implementation of the strategic plan centers equity as its guiding principle. Um, we spent uh a lot of time actually talking with each one of you as city council members and uh and and other folks to make sure that we understood what you meant by that. Uh because that's what we wanted to make sure that we delivered. And then we need to develop the framework in ways that model what ultimately we're trying to deliver. So we wanted to make sure that the means by which we got to the framework modeled the kind of things that the framework itself was supposed to deliver. Uh so we wanted to make sure that there was equitable shared ownership between staff responsible for implementation. We'll talk a little bit more about that phrase in a moment. Um but also that that there was shared ownership with the community including those who are most marginalized. And then last but certainly not least, make sure we effectively meet the needs of staff uh and council. Um so here were the process steps. We spent time observing and analyzing data from the community engagement sessions uh and the community survey. We attended those sessions. Uh we reviewed the data uh really deeply. We had meetings to understand needs of staff leadership and your diversity champions on staff. Uh we had listening sessions with um city council members individually and neighborhood association presidents uh and then we facilitated uh this community advisory group uh again the ones who did the heavy lifting to develop the framework itself. Um there are a couple of sort of things in the background that we want to make sure we bring attention to around equity as we had these conversations. These are things that we talked about uh with uh city leadership. Uh they were the sort of in the background as we did the work. um with the community advisory group.

So, we just want to touch on a few of those uh as we get into this conversation. And the first has to do with the word equity itself. There's a lot of different opinions about how equity works, what equity is, and uh my intention here isn't to say that any of those things are wrong, but we do want to sort of u make sure we have some common language about how we used it uh in this process. And we have found that while the word diversity and the word inclusion tends to be rarely, you know, fairly well understood and agreed upon, the term equity tends to be um a little bit more all over the place. So, we have found it's useful to um center ourselves around the idea of equity, thinking about it as it's not I mean as it's used in situations other than diversity, equity, and inclusion. So this is one of the ways that we have found to make it um more straightforward and make sure that we have some shared language. So the way that most people run into the word equity first has to do with equity in purchasing a home. Uh and so my goal here is is just to make sure that we have some again some common language. So when someone's purchasing a home, if we use this example that where the total house value is $300,000, the mortgage company or bank may own $200,000 of that. we would say the buyer's equity is the other other $100,000. Separate from diversity, equity, and inclusion, the term equity is used to describe situations where there is more than one owner. That is true if we're talking about the stock market, which is technically the equity market. You're buying and selling equity shares. More than one person has ownership in the company. That's true if you're talking about a professional services company like a a set of lawyers or accountants. There are equity owners of the company. That means that they there's multiple people partners uh that that have shared ownership. Now the reason this is that this is important is because there are some folks who argue

that the idea of equity is somehow not American that it's somehow made up when the reality is is that we have been using the idea of equity in this country for a very long time when we think about it as shared ownership. Now, ultimately, that's what we're trying to get to with our community and the city is we want to make sure that there's shared ownership between what the city is trying to accomplish and the people that you're doing the work for. So, if we use this idea of shared ownership uh when we think about equity, then we can take a look at images that are commonly used in the conversation around equity and sort of help us understand why the shared ownership piece matters. So, uh in the images that you see on the screen, you have image A and image B. Again, I'm assuming a lot of people in this room have seen versions of this before. The idea is that in image A, we have equality. Everybody has the same boxes. And in image image B, we have equity because everyone can see over the fence and the boxes have been moved. But you'll notice we have a question mark there. And the reason is because I can't tell looking at this image if in fact that is equity. And what I mean by that is if someone who owned the boxes walked up to the folks in image A and said,"I am deciding on your behalf that you should move your boxes and that your outcome should be to look over the fence." You may have a better outcome. Like if you ask them at the end, is it better that you can see over the fence? They may say yes. But that doesn't mean that that's actually what they wanted in the first place. In fact, if you've seen versions of this that have a third image that has no fence or people are are sitting in the stands, one of the reasons that those exist is because we on the outside don't know what the people in the image actually want. You have to actually have shared ownership. You have to make sure that the people that you're doing the work

with andor for have some say over what is happening with them and for them. So if they decided that what they wanted was to see over the fence and they decided the barriers to being able to see over the fence were the boxes then yes in fact this is an image of equity. So when we talk about equity and shared ownership there's a couple of things that are really important. The first is there has to be a shared definition of success. And again, as we think about this in the context of our communities, we need to make sure that the definition of success that we have around this table uh in city hall is in fact shared with our communities. If the community's definition of success is something else, us doing something quote unquote for them isn't actually what is needed. Second, you then can collaborate to overcome barriers to success. Then we can work together to say okay given the definition of success that I see the definition of success that you see how do we work together to overcome those barriers and again that requires us working with the community to make sure that we address the issues that they see. So equity isn't about deciding on someone else's behalf what they need and then doing that thing for them or to them. Equity requires working with the community to decide what is it that we're actually trying to accomplish together. Well, how do you define success? We may in this in city hall because you have experts and you may see some barriers to success that people in the community may not see. That's okay. That's good. You're bringing your expertise to the table. However, they have expertise also about their own lived experience. And so making sure that we have shared ownership over defining what is our definition of success and that then we work together not do things to people or for people that we actually collaborate participate together to overcome those barriers. That is the operating system behind this entire equity implementation framework. One more piece we want to talk about

before we shift into the framework itself and it is this phrase that everybody in this room has heard multiple times and that is that all means all. So what does that mean from a data standpoint? If we think about looking at data um and for this instance we're going to talk about the community uh input uh and the survey responses. If you assume a standard bell curve, which is how most data sort of plays out, one of the things you'll notice is that in the middle of the bell curve, where you have the most responses, where people agree the most, you're likely to uh find views that are held by majorities. However, in the sides of the bell curve, where responses are less often, where people have said things less frequently, you're likely to find perspectives that reflect people in the margins of the system. And so one of the keys to making sure that um you take an we take an equitable approach to accomplishing things even as we think about things like what is our shared definition of success? What are the barriers that people see? Is that we have to make sure that we are paying attention to people outside of that middle of the bell curve? What are they saying? Because they represent perspectives that are not um that are tech that that you that are usually underrepresented. And so when we move into understanding what is our shared definition of success, as we identify what barriers people may have, it is making sure that we create processes by which we pay attention to those uh perspectives in addition to the ones that are spoken more often, right? Like at the community input sessions, one of the things that happened at the end of the night was people sort of reported back comments that were made more often than others. Great. That's a useful thing. that sort of represents the middle of the bell curve. And part of our responsibility and I would argue part of the responsibility of leadership in the room is to also make sure that we understand

the perspectives that were spoken less frequently to make sure we don't miss barriers andor concerns that people have that may not have been represented in the middle of that bell curve. Okay. So with those [snorts] things in mind, um I want to walk us through the framework. you all have a copy of the document I believe somewhere in front of you and so I'm going to simply use the slides as a way to sort of help organize us uh and frankly a leave behind in order to make sure that um as we think about um you know as you do this work moving forward that you can I see people looking for it. Do we have copies of the I'm looking at Teesha. We're going to Okay, we'll pass them out. Make sure we have them. All right. So, while you're doing that, I'm going to uh start with the community advisory group. So, we had local co-conveners um that um helped us lead a group of community members who are connected to broadly diverse perspectives. Uh again, you all have a list of the people who are involved. We had three workshops. Uh one of the things that came up in a conversation preparing for this is um we had three times we got together. However, there was a lot of work in between those times. So the community members uh really did a lot of heavy lifting in order to get us uh to this implementation framework. There was a lot of shared ownership. It's important to point out that we built this work on the real task port uh task force report. So um one of the huge advantages that Savannah has compared to a lot of other places who are trying to do work like this is that you had previously done work with the real task force. That task force uh had a report that uh had a lot of really important information about it had connected deeply with the community. And so rather than sort of start with a blank slate, uh the community uh

advisory group and us, we started with that task with that report and we worked to understand what is it that it can tell us about again some of those perspectives that may be outside of the middle of that bell curve. Uh and then last but not least, um we uh got specific input on community engagement uh and community participation uh and then potential community partners. One of the several things that came up in our conversations with council uh members was the desire to ensure that there's a lot of partnership and participation among community members in the implementation of the framework. I'm sorry, implementation of uh Savannah GPS. And so one of the things we asked the community advisory group to do is to get really specific about how to do that. Well, the structure of the framework, uh there's four pieces. The first is equity building blocks. Some core ideas that shape the framework. Uh two, equity impact watch points. So these are key data points to watch to see if equity is improving. So you'll be able to see whether or not the work that's happening coming out of Savannah GPS and the um equity implementation framework. Is that actually leading us uh to [clears throat] more equity or not? And we'll unpack that in a moment. Three, an equity implementation worksheet. Uh this is a thing that the city manager specifically asked for. Uh a very straightforward tool that the that city leadership can use to to equitably plan, do and evaluate its projects. And then last but not least, uh there's a specific part about community engagement that I mentioned recommendations for engaging people affected in the community. The next part of the framework talks about what are the uses for the framework. And this is one of the things that I really want to make sure we um are clear about and that is so so there are different uses for this framework for different groups. So first is for city staff. So as city staff does its planning as it's doing implementation

after programs uh and projects. This framework is a method uh provides methodology for being able to evaluate how we're doing like when we're doing planning. Are we doing that in a way that um ensures shared ownership among people in the city, the different um teams and departments in the city, service centers in the city and also equally importantly, if not more importantly, shared ownership uh with the community during implementation. Is that actually happening? Check progress and then afterwards look back on lessons learned. What can we do differently in order to improve that in the future? However, this is also intended to be used by city council and community members. And I think that this is a really important thing. The community advisory group was really clear about this that we wanted to make sure that this is a document that council can use that community members can use to review proposals that are coming up. So when uh staff leadership brings proposals forward, you can take a look at this framework and say, "Okay, how does it actually fit with the expectations that have been set?" Um a way to check for community engagement. So you can take a look at those recommendations and those opportunities and identify whether or not the city's actually doing those things. And then last but not least for evaluation and review again after the fact, can we assess whether or not um the work that happened actually advanced equity and again identify uh less potential lessons learned. All right. So I'm going to go through some highlights of each one of the sections. So I want to start with fairness and equity. So, one of the statements um that you all have has to do with uh your equity statement. And in short, it talks about ensuring the city has um the the city's guiding principle to ensure all residents, businesses, workers, and guests benefit from fair and equitable services and resources. So, as we had conversations with council and also with the mayor, one of the things that came up was this idea that we need to be clear about where we're

providing same services for everyone across the city. What is that baseline? What what are we saying should be everywhere? And then what things need to be different? How do we need to customize and or tailor things in order to address uh historical challenges uh current challenges? And so the shorthand in this document is that fairness or equality has to do with those same services for everyone. And then equity has to do with those additional or different services to remove unfair burdens caused by history or current conditions. Let me give you a quick example. So if you think about housing, [sighs and gasps] we want to make sure that there is safety codes for all housing everywhere in the city. uh whether it is a new apartment complex that goes up, a single family home, uh if it is the the cottages uh in Dundee, like no matter what those things are, we want to make sure that there is clear codes that apply everywhere. However, on a neighborhood by neighborhood basis, we have zoning that helps clarify what might be different in those places. And so from an equity standpoint, one of the things we need to do is make sure that those differences at a neighborhood by neighborhood basis that that we take a shared ownership approach that the people that are there have some say over what's different in their neighborhood relative to other places. It doesn't mean you get rid of co the safety codes, but on top of those things, there are going to be differences of the kinds of housing, uh the approaches to housing that we may do on a uh district by district or uh or neighborhood by neighborhood basis. That's where the equity piece comes in. And again, what our encouragement is is to make sure that the city is super clear about those things as you pursue the goals in the strategic plan. Another thing I want to point out is the application of equity. And again, this

is a phrase that the community advisory group uh developed. So this applies to all forms of injustice including but not limited to barriers related to race, ethnicity, gender identity and expression, sexual orientation, age, income, religion, disability, both developmental and acquired, indigenous identity, nationality, language, access to technology, and limited availability during standard business hours. Those last two were really critical from a community participation standpoint. Um, one, the ability to make sure that you can access means to participate and either using technology or not andor the time of day during which those participation opportunities exist also affect whether or not people have an opportunity to have shared ownership over what's happening uh in their lives. Next, I want to talk about the watch points. So these watch points are key data points to watch for whether the city's efforts are making progress towards equity for each strategic plan goal. So each goal has its own watch point. So the city can pay attention to what's move what's happening at the goal level and then you can also sort of track progress at the watch point level. There's simply data points to pay attention to. Again they are built upon issues raised by the real task force. Um it was really important to us to make sure that the concept around race didn't get lost in the work around equity. So starting with issues raised by the real task force ensured that the watch points uh took those things into account. The watch points are broader than race. However, they start with race so to ensure that race uh doesn't get missed. And then each watch point, again, this was a thing that the um community advisory group helped develop, includes a list of intersectionalities and

considerations. What I mean by that is it's a it's a list of um each watch point is connected to lots and lots and lots of lived experience. And so the idea is to help the city understand what those connections are. And so each of those watch points lists a set of those things. So uh again you have a copy of the framework in front of you. I want to bring your attention to one of these just as a way uh to help us through help us make sure we uh we see it. So what I want to do is look at um page five which is around strategic plan goal number two. So what you'll see is first the goal itself out of the strategic plan that you adopted. City of Savannah is dedicated to building strong neighborhoods, protecting housing, promoting the well-being of all residents while celebrating our unique and diverse cultures, and supporting individuals, families, and communities. So, that's simply the language directly out of the strategic plan. That's the goal. And then we have an equity implementation watch point. So, here is the data point to watch about equity related to this goal. It is costburdened housing. So that's defined by the percentage of households paying greater than 30% income on housing by race. So disagregated by race as well as other groups who've been treated unjustly based on their identity or background. And again, this is tied to real task force report page number 68 and 69. So you can see directly in the real task force where this issue was raised. Why is this important? So each watch point has a set of bullet points that describe why it's important. So the first efforts to improve neighborhoods can sometimes lead to increased financial burden or displacement for existing residents. Avoiding gentrification is a critical aspect of equitable community development. So back to where we started with our example about housing. So of course we want to

have codes and then we want to make sure that in each neighborhood we're thinking about what's best for that neighborhood. Sometimes when we do things to and for other people, we're fixing problems that actually force them out of the neighborhood. And so the goal here is to make sure that that we can pay attention to how the changes that we're making actually affect the people who live there. Second, cost burden in housing can result from ways that some people and cultures are treated unjustly across housing and employment interactions. And again, because the city already collects housing data, this is a practical and reliable way to measure change over time, uh it was really key for us and the community advisory group members to make sure that the watch points were data points that can be collected or already are being collected by the city so that there was nothing standing in the way of being able to evaluate uh its success. And then there's the intersectionalities and considerations. When this indicator improves, it signals progress on broader injustices as well because it's related to and then it has a list of of ways that it's related. So homelessness for instance, as cost burden increases, risk of homelessness increases. So the data point isn't specifically homelessness. However, when you watch that watch point, you can understand that it has an effect on homelessness, transportation, enforceable fair housing protections, uh, and, uh, the other things in this list. So again, just want to make sure you're familiar with the way that the document is laid out. The next uh part of the uh framework is an implementation worksheet. Again, this is a document uh a tool that city manager asks for so that when the city is developing a project or a work plan, it has uh the worksheet lays out an alignment st uh statement. What are the connections to the strategic plan goals and watch points? So for every new

project or work plan, this worksheet says, let's be clear about how this actually connects to the strategic plan goal and how does this affect or connect to those watch points. Second, uh what's our list for community engagement? Who's most affected and how will they be involved? So really clarify that right up front. And then last but not least, cross team collaboration. Making sure there's connections to other city staff doing related work. One of the comments that uh we've been talking about or ideas we've been talking about with city leadership is sometimes really well-meaning team members or department service centers can be out doing work. However, their work may be adversely affecting equity work that someone else in the city is doing. So being really clear about the relationship between the work that's happening across the city um departments and teams is a key piece of ensuring uh that we're paying attention to equity. And then last but not least, reporting and milestones. Uh who are we reporting to and how often is that going to happen? The last portion uh of the uh implementation framework has to do with guidance around community engagement. Again, for both planning and advance and assessment. It is designed around a set of scenarios for addressing barriers to maximize engagement. Uh let me give you an example. I'm going to turn us to our section on community engagement which starts [snorts] on page looks like 17 so wrong on page it's yeah okay on page 14 so section four around community engagement So, uh, at the bottom of that page, you'll see the first scenario. So, when engaging marginalized or underrepresented populations, uh, you'll see on the next page when

navigating safety concerns and historical mistrust. Uh, number three is when working with groups facing language and literacy barriers. So, the idea is to make sure that as we engage with community, we can think about which scenarios apply. And it's really important to again the community advisory group wanted to be super clear about this. The idea isn't that you use only one of these. It's to make sure that you use them in combination based upon the various situations that exist at uh the community level when we're doing the work. And then last but not least, a list of community organizations provided by the community advisory group. Some folks that you can start with for those conversations. Okay, I now move through that quickly. Uh and I am hoping that that I did enough in order to help you understand how the um implementation framework works. Uh and for you to be able to work with city staff in order to to collaborate again that shared ownership between the council and and uh staff leadership to ensure uh that um the work that happens with Savannah GPS in fact centers equity in its implementation. Thank you, James. And I want to offer my appreciation to James and culture for the long engagement they've had with us through um even before we kicked off Savannah GPS and and through this process. Um I think this framework and the [clears throat] watch points give us um u material and quantitative things to be able to to check on. Um it's uh sometimes not a easy conversation to have especially when we talk about service delivery and um uh for municipalities and equity but this was a really important process for us to want to go through and it'll be even more important for us to stick to um as we move forward. So I know we that our lot today and that presentation uh deservedly took a little more on more time but happy to answer any questions and have discussion.

First of all, I want to thank you for presentation. Uh for us, equity is not a dirty word. Um and if it's the right thing to do, it's the right thing to do. And so, um I think our GPS, our strategic plan, uh is filled only without doubting our intentions, but our uh methodology about how we want this city to be. Um all has to mean all. Um all can't. So, any questions from council. I want to thank council for for supporting it because uh nowadays it seems like a radical concept that all would need all. Um and you know we'll just be radicals. So and I as to Dr. Johnson uh radical is not a bad word either.

Sure isn't. All right. Thank you Mr. Mayor. Um and I'm so glad a quick segue when you mentioned Mayor Dr. Johnson and I do believe, Mr. Mayor, he is a part of our real task force. He leads

he leads the real just wanted to make sure. Thank you so much um Mayor Dr. Otis Johnson um for your leadership and Mr. mayor for bringing the real uh conversation and the work that we have been doing nationally for some years now, but bringing that work to Savannah and putting the action behind it so that we could have clear uh clear guidance and a clear blueprint and framework on how we are moving now and how we are moving forward into the future. uh especially when we are talking about this whole thought of this council and this administration about equity. So I want to thank you all so much for for this work um and and also as you all were developing this as the as the community involvement also as the consultant. Thank you so much for including our mayor and council and we having one-on-one conversations in order for the documentation to be what we know and believe that our community and our constituents uh would want for the betterment um of this city. The other thing is um I'm just so glad about it and just having a document in front of us to work from. Uh thank you Dr. Johnson and Mr. Mayor. Oh, okay. On this on this the slide that talks about equity building blocks, this is a question that that came up into my mind in reference to the definition of standard business hours. Mhm.

Um some people may need access um you know after business hours and so what was the the the thought pattern in reference to the standard business hours? I I think you're specifically addressing the issue that the community advisory group raised, which is as we think about community participation in particular, but any approaches to equity, we can't just do those things within the context of standard business hours, we need to make sure that we are thinking about people who can only engage outside of standard business hours, either because they have to work or they have to care for someone at home or for whatever reason that might get in the way. Um it's a thing that isn't always included uh and or focused on in these sorts of processes, but the community advisory group was really um uh intentional about ensuring that that was included as a part of the applications for this work.

Fantastic. I like that direction. Thank you, Mr. Thank you. Any other questions?

More of a comment really. Thank you so much for the hard work that you do and the the group's hard work. Um, you know, four guiding principles that I look at when um we make decisions at least about my district is accessibility, connectivity, equity, and opportunity. And I am I'm so thrilled that we're here discussing equity today. It's not just a buzz word. All right. It's it is a guiding principle. It's how we operate. Um, and to that point, it's been very um pleasing to see that our community engagement has been spread out between different hours throughout throughout the day. So, we may have something in the afternoon, we may have something towards the evening, and I I guess this next thing is more directed towards my colleagues, but I challenge uh you all here on city council today or at least to think about it in the coming weeks as we solidify a calendar coming up for the year. Um, you know, we talk about being accessible and I've heard from my constituents that they would like to see at least one more nighttime meeting than we used to have. Um, some of them feel like reaching out via technology is not enough. Some of them would like to come to the city council meetings. It's not that they it's not that they can't join online. It's just sometimes I'd like to be here to voice their opinion. So, as we move forward in the next coming weeks, I would at least appreciate some thought behind that.

You tried it for four years. So, I know I know they're asking on me for four years ago. It may not have worked or for the past four years it didn't. But I still want to make sure that we're providing that opportunity for folks. It's it's not not personally for me. It's it's for the folks I represent. Just I'm sorry. Yes, ma'am. I'm sorry. You finished? Yes, sir. Yes, ma'am.

Just just um Mr. City [clears throat] Manager, what Kirk said is we tried that. It didn't work and it created a hardship for staff who had to work here during the day. So we need to consider that too the day and sometime we didn't get out here to 10 and 11:00 at night because staff had been here from 8:30 they still have their jobs have to do then they had to stay in addition to that but uh I [clears throat] wanted to thank you sir for your presentation but like all the presentations that we have I want to personally know from the third district traction movement and end results how do we get to where we need to be it's good to have all the paperwork But as a a third district alderman and I'm sure everybody else, what do we do now to make sure that you're moving forward on this and it's just not going to be a presentation or something that's on the shelf that we don't move on? Great results from real great uh we had something yesterday in my district um with uh Ma Manny [clears throat] and his staff. Inclusion is very important and sometimes uh it's like in a poll because our constituents don't know what's going on and then we give them too much information to consume at one time. This is a lot of information all the work that they did with real real and so now [clears throat] we need timelines. Timelines are important and so um thank you again for all the work that you put in there. But for me, I want to be able to tell my constituences, you heard the GPS, this is where we're going to go from ABC, this may be a roadblock. We come back to the table and talk about some things we need to fix that gap, but in results, movement is what's important to us and timelines.

I'll start with the answer and then James has something to from his expert. Love to hear it. Um, you know, there's kind of the saying, you know, there's people that talk and people that do, right? And I think that that this is a topic where we can talk a lot. Um and what we were really challenged with, well, how do we take the talk of equity, the talk of fairness, um and try to put that in a system of doing um and you know, in my world, what gets measured gets done. So how do we begin to measure what the value the definition that this council has for equity in our municipal service which we have council adopted. How do we take that definition and program that into ways that we can measure results and I think that this has been the work of the equity framework with these watch points. Of course the work isn't done u but this framework is a part of the Savannah GPS strategic plan. These watch points are things that we are going to measure um and report on so that we can kind of you know move beyond um

the talk and and start to move to the Duke. Now are we going to get everything right? Are these watch points going to come back and say hey we're doing so great. No I don't think that they will. I think that they're going to show things that we need to continue to dig into other things that we're going to have to measure. Um but this is where you start to move words into action. Um and and it's this framework gives us a very very tactile um approach to how we're doing that work just like Savannah GPS where we're trying to get to something that is specific and something that we can take action on.

Yeah, I I agree and I know we have to have some kind of process and some kind of a framework and this is a good start but again people want to know what the action is. we got how to get there. We want to know when we get there. That's more important than people and they don't really uh are wanting to uh really beat this up. They want us to beat it up and timelines are very important. Thank you for that answer. I appreciate that.

Thank you. I I want to just add to all's uh point. I think we can certainly explore accessibility of our meetings. I think and I came to my remembrance actually that's part of the reason why um city Imagine and I started Savannah at night um we started with capacity to do it twice a year we have capacity that can go four times a year [clears throat] um and the whole thought about that is that we would bring city government all of our um chiefs and and department heads are available um in a place uh to be able to speak directly to those individuals um and So, you know, we can look at how we expand that. I mean, the next one will be on November the 5th, state of the city. Um, but after the state of the city, you know, we have team Savannah there for the purposes of engaging the record with residents in a way that they may not during counseling. Obviously, um being heard is during public hearings and you know, those are um those are legally um defined. So, but you know, let's talk about it.

Can we um Yes, ma'am. In addition to what he said, can we possibly have like one evening meeting a year so that people can schedule it and then if that doesn't work, then we disband it again because I'm really concerned about the staff and how it affected them being here all day long. Understand the citizens too, but four years and didn't get a really good

and I think I think there was a different dynamic on city council then too as we move ahead and look forward. I just look at it from the sense that that the people put me in this place and that all of us are public servants in this room, even city employees, and that we move towards being this this 24-hour city where we provide those services. And I think equity is good. And going back to not just being a buzzword, I think it's it's great, but we have to put it into practice. And if that means that that schedules are adjusted, you know, sometimes they say equity is uncomfortable and it can be because for some people that you know for for the discussion or for procedures that need to take place. Um schedules can be adjusted, but we all every one of us in this room, employees, elected officials, we all work for the people that put us here. Um and and that that comes with a price of public service. But I'm not saying that everybody should work 12 14 hour days, but I think that exploring the option of trying to provide that service is important to the folks that that live in this community. Yeah. And I think that's kind of why we started with the opportunity of having all of city staff available uh at night uh for residents to engage with them that they would not be able to do during a city council meeting. um and obviously would not be able to engage except for a public hearing regarding something that is on the public agenda. So

I think that that was that was more so the the the concern the folks had right you know I mean if it's something that's on the agenda I mean obviously that's set in advance but um they can um ensure the council hears them in public. They can also um write letters as you know they do. They can contact counselor as they do contact as individually as they do. Again, I think we can certainly talk about um how that that looks and look at um I think we have some metrics from that that we can explore as we go forward. Anybody else on the chest? Man,

just a comment. Um I've listened to the discussion and I'm wondering is it more important that um we avail services after hours versus the formal meetings after hours because I think as you were refer as you were indicating there really are there's really not an opportunity provided for engagement during a public meeting but I um refer back to what the mayor prom mentioned earlier earlier in this discussion when she talked about I think she was referring to services being offered uh during after standard business hours and if I can I'd like to um mention a change that the newly it's not new anymore but the current sherk instituted at the jail I think some of us around this table heard him speak a couple of weeks ago when he talked about um giving legal legal the legal community access to the jail after hours. So if they wanted to meet with their clients at 7 8:00 uh opening I'm making that service available. So that's that to me um is an example of where we are um you know going beyond standard business hours of the standard framework to make sure that the citizens or the um folks who benefit who would benefit from that particular act are provided uh an opportunity uh to access services. Thank you, Alman.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Thank you so much for this presentation. Um, it was very informative and I appreciated it. Uh, we talk about the GPS, Mr. City Manager. Um, and we talk about implementation. My question is, are we going to do some type of program for the employees here? um especially the ones in management positions, supervisors, and what have you when it comes to being equitable to our employees, especially in our sanitation department and um in in departments where you have lower echelon type uh employees working. And um the reason why I asked that question is because I get phone calls and you know because I tell you about uh a lot of the equity disseminated in the departments it does not go around to everybody. So is there going to be u some kind of process where these individuals who in positions of authority find out the same information that you're giving us? Will they be able to get this information as well? We talk about it, but the implementation process.

Yes, ma'am. Uh we actually had a manager summit yesterday

um for um all the managers um in the organization. Um we talked about our values. We talked about Savannah GPS. We um have those training opportunities um for our managers. But we also my new initiative now that we've got a strategic plan, now that we've got an equity framework is setting the Savannah standard, right? This council has invested mightily in team Savannah. Um uh you know, we we're paying everybody at or above market rate. Um this is a premier place to work. Um what that needs to mean is that we're creating premier results as well from it. Um so uh uh I think part of that that equity training in our managers is also about creating the buy in and pride that all of team Savannah needs to have for the work that we do. Um we manage uh the greatest city on earth. It's a special place. It's not like other places. Um so we have to we also have to set a high standard for our work um as well. And we lean on you said lower echelon. Um, but I think that our uh frontline staff, you know, um, they're the heartbeat of the city. They're the heartbeat of the city. They're the folks that are doing the work. Um, and uh, they know what the Savannah standard is going to be. We're going to make sure that our managers know how to manage, know how to get the work that we need out of all of our teams and we're going to make sure that everybody um, who's in a uniform, everybody who's um, got a work badge um, is treated fairly. um that act as a part of our organization as well.

I hope so. Thank you. I think let me just add um [clears throat] city council's made it clear about what the new world order is.

Um and city manager and team have um embodied that as well. And now it has to become the culture change through the organization which sometimes uh takes a little bit of time uh and sometimes it takes movement of people um to be successful elsewhere and they don't accept or is not willing to embody the same um view of equity uh as as this council has. And so we have to trust the city manager and continue to uh make sure that that is throughout the organization. So I think we have to move people but we don't want want to move them out.

Well, I mean I think people have choices. Um and so if they embody the vision of equity and um that we have then they'll they'll be fine. Um but sometimes my experience sometimes folks don't want to and they just have to go be successful somewhere else. Uh Alman Leget and all the mayor.

Thank you Mr. Mayor. Uh thank you also Mr. city manager. I appreciate your presentation. The um so the task has been given to us to uh tell you exactly what's going on in our communities and how we can be more inclusive uh within our communities. And I wanted to make sure in your presentation that you did and you and you also did um highlight that all of our communities that we represent, all of them have uh differences and um and uh where they live. uh uh how they live um where they work. So, we wanted to make sure that everybody's uh thoughts and what they're what they're going through in the community is brought brought into one um framework. And I appreciate you guys even asking us or asking the city the uh the neighborhood association presidents what their residents their portion of the residents because we get 20 20 something thousand people but each neighborhood association president have a more intimate uh relationship with people street to street and we just wanted to make sure as we move forward and the GPS show us how to move the entire community as a in a holistic uh portion of it forward. That's the what Savannah actually supposed to look like. So when we start talking about um our lower level employees and people who are boots on the ground, those are the people who I like to talk to. When we start talking about how we get things done, I don't want to talk to any directors. I don't like to talk to the managers. I like to talk to the people who are actually digging in the ground or who can tell me what's going on, the history of what Savannah is because they're moving dirt. They're moving bricks. Mr. there. These are the people who actually see what's going on. They live here. And uh to the point of a lot of people around this table, those are the people who are are being shifted

when we start talking about gentrification and how we as uh as their representatives are going to bring their voices to the table. So this is our opportunity to bring their voices to the table and and how the GPS is going to keep them here when we start telling people from other places, come to Savannah, see what Savannah's about. See how we are growing and how we are attracting some of the best talent that we have. But we want to make sure that our talent that we have here is actually benefiting from a city that we are growing and city that we are building and a city that we are highlighting to everybody else. So thank you for your presentation. Thank you for again highlighting the portions of the of the process that uh people don't know about and um I think every time we go into our communities is a unique experience. So as we use those experiences uh every we don't have to always go and have a u a nighttime meeting but we can have an opportunity to have satellite meetings with our neighborhood presidents. We can have staff to come out in different unique ways. The good thing about this council is we can uh under the city manager have a opportunity to be unique to meet the needs of our community in different ways. So again, thank you Mr. Mayor and just thank you for the opportunity for giving us.

Thank you. There we go.

Yes. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Just a few things. Um, so the people from the first district, I may represent most of the marginalized people in the city based on demographics and based on what the US census is saying. And so I would place three distinct levels of um in in the first district. If you look across that river, that's the first district. When you see that hotel coming up in the convention center, that's probably the the higher end of the demographics. Out near the county line, you have the Highlands and that's more of a middle class and they're concerned about quickly sliding down that scale. That's what I'm hearing from them. And then right there in in good old west Savannah, there are 10 neighborhoods uh considered mostly lowwealth communities. and growing up in that uh Gulligi corridor. And they said, "Y'all talk geeki." And we do and we did, but we're more kind of bilingual because the Gulligi people say, "Start out like you're going to hold out. Start out like you're going to hold out." And so if we look at the premise of what we're doing here, I believe in the process very much so. And thank you for your work. Um, but like I said to UJ on Tuesday when we met and spoke, the devil is always in the details. And so I know we had the real task force and they did a lot of work and I respect that. But I don't know how many of those people in that middle corridor over there had an opportunity to serve on that and their voices were heard on that task force because I didn't get opportunity to uh recommend anyone for that task force. So I don't know if that voice was heard. And then we're talking about the community advisory group. Is that a group? We did we assign someone to that?

Uh that's a group that was created for the I believe council that handed forming.

We did. We did. So probably had an appointee on that. So So that's a concern because I think all of us are familiar with the little graphic cartoon on social media where you had the ball field and the kids standing there that depicted equity as opposed to equality. And those are two distinctly different things. Uh when I got elected to serve here and started in 2020, I came with like 12 different equity policies that I wanted to see implemented because of my lived experience and the people I represent. They were like a community benefit strategic approach because I was the person that had the problem with our strategic approach that it was outdated and not serving and and providing the benefits of the people that I serve. Uh also from that community benefit strategic approach uh was pushing for a community benefit ordinance that would lead to a community benefit agreement. And this community benefit strategic approach is what we see in Savannah GPS by any other name. It's a community benefit strategic approach and that's a great thing because we're moving in the right direction there and I appreciate that. Um but in that middle corridor, those 10 neighborhoods, six of those suffer from environmental injustice. And I'm not seeing that enough in this city. the voice that re uh representing those people and that voice people are dying and we're gonna prove that pretty soon because no one in all these years partners everybody who been to the table with the big grants and the big money no one has really came and said let's do the work to show the suffering of these people and and the health conditions of these people based on all of this nasty industry and and what's in the air and what's in our water and what I was up last night a couple of hours because the vibrating was going on and the noise was going on.

So therefore, when my clock went off, I hit it to snooze some because of those two hours, you know, that I'm up hoping that they can calm that noise down. And that's what we experienced living in this corridor. I'm I'm not seeing and hearing enough of that. I know we have opportunity in this process to bring those issues up, but it's need to be such a driving concern and I'm just not seeing hearing that from those representing those 10 neighborhoods in in that middle corridor about the environmental injustice. Again, I believe in the process. Um, wherever you have the most problems, there you have the most opportunities. So, we're looking forward to engaging uh in this work, but we're going to have to make sure that we utilize this work in an equitable way because development, community development is going to be the biggest things that's going to impact uh the residents that I serve. And you know, when we make better for the least of these, the people at the top, they're going to benefit. And so now we need to be thinking about development, community development, uh economic development. And we have opportunities right now, the worst opportunities to create better conditions instead of more uh industrial development that's already killing folks. We need to be looking at community development. Eastern W, Western, we got an opportunity. Uh the weapon time property because when you look at community benefit strategic approach, you got to consider ABCD assetbased community development. We have these wonderful assets. We goi people. We built the city. We made the bricks and laid the bricks. That's right. So we have an opportunity right now to take those assets and create community wealth not only for the people and uplift them like we often say we like to do but for this entire city. You

know we we have that waterworks building that our people built made those bricks over there. The weeping time property where uh 429 uh enslaved men, women, and little baby Valentine two weeks old was sold. And now we want to put a a a a homeless shelter and warehouse and trucks on that property where we could put something there that will uplift this the people in that community as an asset in this city and this region and we could make it a a destination because people want to know about the history. These are the things we got to talk about. These are the things we have to work on. These are the things that's going to bring us the [clears throat] equity uh that we that we strive for. So again, um I I do thank you for your work. I believe in this process and we're going to really have to put the issues, place the issues on the table that will make a change. Gentrification, we have to be careful about how we use these terms because that's an economic phenomena. The market drives that. But the worst aspects of gentrification is force displacement. And we're seeing that. So we gentrification, force displacement. Yes, we we we could do things with policy to ward off uh the negative aspects and we could embrace through ABCD assetbased community development uh the opportunities that gentrification present in order to do just that thing because we want to live, work, play and create generational wealth in place.

Thank you. Thank you very much. We need to go ahead. Just just one thing. I mean it is real brief. It's real brief. I just would be remiss if I didn't mention that Dr. Miller Mlan from the Harami House has been working with environmental justice and injustice for over 50 years in the Weine project. We just want to There were 400 plus slaves that were sold and not buried and in that property they didn't find a chicken bone. We need to move on and help people do what they need to do. No one ever said that. Ignorance is bliss. Ignorance is bliss. No one equity equity framework is a method. It's a destination. It's a path. It's a journey.

The purpose of the framework is important because we have to be able to influence and change the things that we get to influence and control. I think it's very important for us because um there are some things we don't control either. We don't control control them legislatively, we don't control them legally. And although it's really really good to talk about those things and certainly bring light to them, I think it's very important that the framework keeps us focused on the things that we directly influence and we control. So will I appreciate employees there?

We have voices but again the framework is for what we control and even with the real task force um and since Dr. Johnson is here. Um the goal here was the five areas that affected Savanians and some things we could not control. We couldn't control education for example or environment but we lifted those things because it affected folks and hopefully creating opportunity with those uh entities that address those things will be able to do it to uh be able to affect positive change in those things those areas. Thank you very much and we appreciate uh that and Dr. Johnson, thank you sir uh again for your work and I thank you for coming off the bench um some years ago really to create uh the real task force as a transformative report um that gave us a path forward. So thank you very much sir.

Thank you very much. Thank you sir. We're glad it was useful. Oh it is and we going to get through real two now. So thank you. All right.

Um Mr. manager. Before we go to construction manager at risk, I want just to lift up a quick simple thought. Um, and I I'll say it and then we'll just leave that where it is. Our um life is changing in this world as it relates to contracting and procurement. Um, we're hearing things, we're seeing things, it's all over the place. Um, and I think that obviously uh you the city attorney uh will keep council briefed as uh legislation changes or as federal regulations change. Um uh we we trust you all to help keep us um within the letter of the law but within the intent of our intentions um as this changes. Again, every day seems to be something different. uh and I just trust that you'll keep us informed uh as this process continues to evolve. That being said, we're going to talk about construction manager at risk. Thank you. Uh thank you, mayor. So, uh moving on, uh we want to construction manager at risk. Um this is a a procurement tool, a procurement strategy and a project delivery method um that the city of Savannah is um beginning to use and beginning to use more for specific projects. We want to have a briefing with council and a discussion at council about what Semar construction manager at risk projects are. What are the other types of procurement strategies we use for project delivery um and why we use Seymar for certain types of projects and not others. why we use other procurement methods um for projects and not Seymar and how all of those projects relate to kind of our other interrelated um procurement policies such as Savannah first or Savannah business opportunity ordinances that we have in the city. Um so without further ado and I know we're a little bit behind time but I think team is going to make sure we're

effective in moving forward. Uh let me um introduce our senior director um for capital construction um and real estate um Christy Lawrence to move us through this presentation and she's going to have some help for team members. Thank you.

Good afternoon mayor and council. So this presentation was a collaboration between myself, [snorts] Miranda Lumpin Lopson, the senior director of economic development, and Ron Feldner, our chief of water resources. So what is Seymar? Semar stands for construction manager at risk. It's an alternate project delivery method used for constructing capital projects. With Seymar, the city hires the design team first, the architects and engineers. Then we bring on the Seymar contractor while design is still underway. The Seymar then works with the city and the design team to help manage and develop the cost data, project schedule, and overall construction planning early in the process. The reason it's called at risk is because once the guaranteed maximum price, the GMP, is set, the contractor generally takes on a majority of the risk of cost overruns such as design errors, missing details, or unexpected conditions. So, comparing delivery methods, let's talk about how Semar compares to traditional design bid build. So traditional design bid build how it works the city hires the contractor after the design is complete. The city must award to the lowest bidder. The designer and the contractor work separately and the construction cost is known after design is finished and bids are received not before. The pros of using traditional design bid build are that it's a simple and very familiar process and it works well for smaller straightforward projects. Cons of design bid build. Bids often exceed our cost estimates. We've been seeing limited competition, sometimes only one bid. We must award to the low bid, not necessarily the best value. We can't weigh qualifications or experience in our awards. It's a sequential process

that often slows delivery. There's minimal collaboration between the designer and the contractor. and value engineering often often happens late after bids are received and it leads to redesigns and delays. So in contrast construction manager at risk um how it works the city hires the contractor during design to give cost and schedule input. The city selects the semar based on their qualifications and also their fees. The city designer and contractor work together as a team. It's a very collaborative process. um construction cost is developed collaboratively during design. Pros of this method, it's a qualificationbased selection focusing on experience and expertise. There's team collaboration between the city designer and contractor. There's early cost and schedule input from the construction company that's going to be managing the work um for better budget alignment. The GMP provides cost and schedule certainty. We've seen a much stronger market response um typically four to eight proposals in response to our Seymar RFPs versus one to three for design bid build. There's open book pricing which ensures full cost transparency. And there's better overall value by reducing change orders and redesigns. The cons of this method does require more team coordination and it's not always needed for small simple projects.

[snorts]

So the Seymar procurement process, this is a two-phase process. Phase one, the pre-construction services phase is the initial award. The city selects a Seymar through a competitive request for proposal or RFP process based on qualifications, experience, the DBE plan, and fees. The SEAR then works alongside the city and the design team during design to provide cost estimates, schedule input, and constructability reviews. This early coordination helps keep the project scope, design, and budget aligned. The second phase of the procurement process is the construction phase or the GMP award. During the design phase, the Seymar develops the guaranteed maximum price for construction. The GMP sets the maximum project construction costs and includes subcontractor pricing and DBE participation. The SEAR is responsible for completing the project within the approved budget and schedule. And the city can choose to either accept the GMP or reject it and competitively bid the project. But it's critical to point out that city council must approve the GMP before construction can begin, just like they would a construction bid. So I've got an example project to share with you. Um the east side gem at park which is currently in design. Um this is an example of semar collaboration and value engineering in action. So we're currently at about 60% design which is we call design development. Um the Seymar has provided us a detailed cost estimate showing that the project is over budget. So the city design team and Seymar met um to collaborate on ideas to save costs and value engineering measures. So some of the ideas that came forward were things such as simplifying wall and ceiling finishes, adjusting roof materials and insulation,

using alternate storefront and glazing systems, evaluating flooring and gym surface options, and revising mechanical and plumbing layouts for efficiency. So these discussions occur before construction allowing informed decisions to align scope, quality, and budget. So this demonstrates Seymar's openbook collaborative approach to cost control and budget adherence. So again, we're working with the Seymar on this one, trying to get the project down, but it's happening prior to the design documents being complete. So how we select a Seymar, we use a competitive RFP process. Each proposal that the Seamar submits has two parts. Their qualifications package and a sealed fee proposal. The proposals are evaluated on these criteria. Experience and qualifications, their project approach, their DBE and local DBE participation plan and their fees which are reviewed separately after scoring of the other items. How we evaluate the SEMAR proposals. A selection committee of three to five subject matter experts is put together. It includes staff from outside the requesting department and that committee reviews and scores the proposals. Each committee member independently reviews the proposals using the criteria in the RFP which are the qualifications experience approach etc. The group then meets. This meeting is facilitated by purchasing to discuss and finalize the disc the scores and no discussion occurs outside this meeting. The DBE participation is scored separately by the DBE office and then fees are scored separately by the purchasing department. The non-communication policy ensures fairness, which means the proposers or the semars who submitted their proposals may only contact the purchasing representative. They are not allowed to

have any contact with other city staff during this process. And then the highest scored firm, the highest ranked firm is recommended for award. So what's included in the Seymar fee proposal? The Seymar firms generally provide these three pricing components. the pre-construction services fee, which is a lump sum fee, a fixed amount for their design phase work, their cost estimating, scheduling, and constructability reviews. Then they submit a construction services fee, which is a percentage of the final guaranteed maximum price that covers the SEMAR's management, overhead, and profit of the project. And then we've got the general conditions cost which is a maximum number and this is a detailed estimate for their field and site costs such as their staff, trailers, utilities, insurance, safety, and temporary facilities. And these are sometimes broken out into labor and other costs for general conditions. So, here's an example project, the Civic Legacy Arena Removal Project, which council approved the pre-construction services at last council meeting. The estimated construction cost for this work is $10 million. The pre-construction services fee was $15,000. The general conditions cost for labor is $242,000. The general conditions cost for other costs was 230,000. And this was for non- labor item items such as temporary facilities, utilities, insurance, and site security. Their construction fee percentage is 2.95% which based on an estimated construction cost of 10 million is $295,000. This represents their overhead and profit. So their total fee for this project is estimated to be $782,736.

And now I'll turn it over to Miranda. I'll continue the presentation where Christy left off. Uh covering the Oh, what happened? Let's see. It would be tech. I don't know what happened. It's all one presentation. down. Down. One more. That's it.

Perfect. Thanks.

I'll continue the presentation where Christie uh left off covering the DBE and LDB participation within Seymour projects. The responding or proposing Seymar teams are to incorporate DBE and LDBE participation within their proposals to the city. There are two opportunities as Christie indicated for that to be incorporated at each phase. Likewise, for our construction projects, the city establishes a participation goal for Seymar projects. We asked the proposing teams to meet or exceed the city established goal of 20% DBE including 10% local DBE participation. This approach is consistent with our participation strategy and provides opportunities for MWBE's minority and womenowned businesses to participate in city projects. Before I take my seat, Mr. Manager asked that I provide a snapshot of LDB participation for the year in 2024. Our project total dollars was 106 million $16.9 million and that of that 26.3% or 24.6% 6% was overall DBE. That netted $15.28 million or 14.27 was spent with local DBEES, giving us 58% of all DBE dollars remaining local to this community.

So in summary, um how we're strengthening project delivery and trying to improve our over overall quality timeline and cost on our capital projects. We're expanding the use of construction manager at risk or semar just like we've gone over today to improve that quality and cost and schedule control. We're using the right procurement strategy for each project. One size does not fit all. We're partnering partnering with the right expertise early to enhance quality and accountability. We're ensuring the right project management structure is in place from planning through completion. And we're focusing on collaboration, transparency, and predictability across all capital projects. And just to show how this aligns with our GPS strategic plan, um I'm not going to read this whole slide here, but we've identified, you know, three of our strategies that directly align with GPS and this effort.

Thank you, Christie. Thank you, um um and as we move through the discussion, I want to follow up on something the mayor said. We're watching very closely um what's happening at the federal level and at the state level as it relates to um um DBE goals and requirements in public procurement. Um we have a local Savannah business opportunity ordinance that was last amended in 2022. Um we're going to continue to follow that ordinance. Um and uh as you can see, thank you Miranda, our 2024 numbers performed above goal um when it relates to um our SPO program. I want to want to note that out. The Seymar um projects, you know, in some ways actually give us more opportunities for that participation um than some of our other procurement methods. So, I want to make sure to be clear that Seymar um also participates in our SBO program as well and is often a place where we can get higher than our goal percentages of 20% and 10%. Um so, with that, we'd love to open up for any questions about the Seamar um procurement strategy or the delivery method. And um thanks for council for asking us to put this on the workshop. city manager in reference to the seriousness um as the mayor opened up with and what you just said in reference to um uh the the initial work um that I brought to our council um back in 2014 uh to develop the ordinance um for the the SBO and and and in working through that and getting more of our minority women business owned um enterprise businesses involved involved at that time. And then

we had to uh convert [clears throat] over uh in between 2015 and 16 over to the uh the disadvantaged business enterprise um ordinance and which our SBO uh ordinance um was was developed and voted on during during that administration at that time. And currently as we are um continuously to implement our SBO and this is so important to our public so our public can understand and not get so unc uncomfortable with what is going on nationally uh in reference to bringing this home uh locally. And as our city manager said, and thank you city manager and city attorney uh for continuously to keep uh your your your hands on the pulse um of this serious work. And as the mayor said, it's just real time. You wake up, one thing is going on with the federal government and and it and [snorts] it trickles down. It's real and it trickles down uh to our city. But our statement um states that the mayor and alderman of the city of Savannah shall provide equal business opportunities to all persons seeking to do business in the city. We're still there. The goal of the uh Savannah business opportunity uh policy is to increase the utilization of local, small, minority, womenowned, and disadvantaged business enterprises in all areas. we still there of procurement of the city including small uh contract purchases, materials and equipment uh and in professional services. The SBO program uh will continue to be administered through our city manager with the support of all the city

departments that are engaged in the procurement of of goods and services. Further, the provision of the SBO policy shall apply to all eligible contract awards by the city subject to the requirement of an outside funding agency accepted as specially exhibit herein. So, I wanted to put that statement on on the table and to um as as businesses in our city, do not get uh nervous about what we what we're doing here in the city of Savannah, but we are talking reality and we will inform the community as we get the information moving forward. City council, any questions? Yes, ma'am. Um, thank you. I have a question, not for you Christie, but for Miranda. Uh, can you talk to us about your um I looked at your results and this looks great. Total project dollars uh for DBE and local DB uh and local DBE participation, your snapshot for 24. Uh can you explain or tell talk about how you or your office monitor uh the DV DBE and the um local minority participation um talk to me about the process. So after council award, uh once goals are established on projects and beyond council award, we have a contract compliance officer that monitors the project uh through payment uh processes as well as visiting onsite um the projects to make sure that

what that entails. that entails site visits as well as communication with the uh DBEs on the projects through duration to completion. Okay. So your internal records would include for each project the uh names of the local participating minorities as well as minorities minority participation in general not just the reports that the uh Seymour or whoever is presenting to you. That's correct. On each project. On each project. Okay. Anyone else? Yeah, I have a question.

I'm just trying to figure out [clears throat] this the Seymar. It's been my experience of sitting here and so are you suggesting to us that all of the capital projects that we've been voting on started out with Semar? Not all of them. No. And

I'll let I'll take that first and you can fill in. Um, no. Uh, Semar is a is a procurement strategy and delivery method that we've just begun to use um in the last year and a half or so. Um, and we're going to use them for specific projects, mostly those that are more complex um projects, mostly vertical construction. Um, likely projects that include um res restoration or some um connection to an existing building. So you think about the the park gym expansion. Uh you think about the IMD um plant. Um those are going to be projects which have a um a very very complex um

work nature and that you've got to be a semar is the most efficient and effective way. you just answer because my next question would be uh and you just said we started using this within the last year

more frequently on the arena was a uh a construction major this project as well. I I remember that because I'm I'm talking about while I've been sitting here, we've been voting for stuff that have been uh the cost is overrun and several of the things that Seymar is supposed to put in place. Uh my vote has determined that those things weren't in place because we've had cost overruns and we had to negotiate different things. And I I'm thinking from this this this um definition it's called at risk because they're supposed to take care of all of the majority risk of cost of ones, design errors, missing details or unexpected conditions. Not only have we had uh been in soup because of this and so are you going to say you're telling us that this is going to eliminate some of the things that we have experienced on this council that we had to vote for because of cost overruns? Um, Seymour protects against those. Yes. Okay. Thank you.

So you you you know if we change the scope then you know the the the scope changes and we may have to pay more for that scope change. Well, you know,

but if they're in if the the Seymar is designed, the construction manager is there during design. They understand any geotechnical work that was done. They're helping to shape that work, shape that understanding of how you're going to construct the building. and therefore as a matter of the contract and and the guaranteed maximum price is taking on the risk of delivering that project as stated in the GMP um to the city at their risk. So so if they experience um disruptions with labor or material cost overruns or what have you, those are things that are at risk for the construction manager because we've agreed on a price and the delivery method for that project.

Mr. city manager. I I understand all of that, right? I get that. That's why I was asking moving forward, we're going to definitely use this. And so this Semar uh [clears throat] for some projects for some project. I get that too. I understand. And it leads to my next question. Okay. So it also says that uh you use five independent or three to five people that sit on council to do that. No ma'am. Not on council. I mean on staff. I know what I want to say. Please let me. So, uh, these five or three people who sit on there, um, how are they determined?

Who determines from the administrative staff? Is that you or the procurement staff? The the the procurement staff and the um the project the the sponsor department um is going to collaborate to um pick the the reviewers on any particular um review. And so just just a quick question is what is the prerequisite not only them working um in that administration or that particular project what is their uh knowledge based on how they determine who's going to get this project? How do they determine that? What's the requisite for that?

It's going to it's going to change based on the project. Right. So for the gymnasium edition at park, not only are we going to have capital construction professionals, engineers who understand um you know what what it means to have a site plan and what that means to construct, but we're also going to have, you know, I don't know who was on that review panel, but I'd likely there was some recreational professionals as well to kind of understand the proposal and understand what's going on so that we can work [clears throat] through what kind of materials um are appropriate, etc. about um for projects involving uh water resources. You know, we have several PE engineers in water resources. Whether we're talking about conveyance projects, um, uh, water treatment projects, we're going to have those experts that are on our staff um, in in reviewing those, uh, proposals as well so that we can provide um, some input and that we are ensuring that the that the proposals that we're seeing um, we're scoring those based on our needs.

Okay. So, that leads to my other question. when we talk about equity uh and [clears throat] how these contractors are giving out to people and we always say Savannah first. So if that is the case, how do we and I think you said something that triggered why I'm asking this. You said that uh there are different people at different times depending on that particular project. That's right. And so is there some framework to make sure that they're consistent in how they determine who gets these awards? because we're seeing and we're talking about the same people getting the same awards all the time. How do we change that based on this equity and the stuff that we've been talking about today?

We're, you know, I think we've done a very good job in our um procurement and our purchasing over my time. I think we have some maturing as a just maturing as a system. We're we're doing more complicated procurements like Sears. Um, you know, we we're going to continue to level up our ability to um uh to to put out because we save money in the procurement space, right? That's where you save money and that's where you save time. So, you know, we're going to continue to level up and add skills and and add expertise where we need them to make sure that we've got the right RFPs, make sure that we're picking the right procurement strategies and delivery methods, that we've got the right technical reviewers on the technical review panel, that we know exactly what we're looking for when we're doing a SEAR versus when we're doing a um a a bid build, a traditional project. Um and you know so so th those things I think we're very good at. I think we're going to get better. Um we've talked with and I've talked personally with um biders that did not end up being recommended and heard about their experiences and um know that they have expertise in other places and have done these things um in other jurisdictions as well. And if there are things that we can learn from each other on those processes, we're going to continue to do so. Um, on how we, you know, just continue to level up on on being more sophisticated in how we how we get project.

Mr. City Manager, just for my edifice, I would want to know, and I'm sure that other members of this council, I' I'd like to see two of our current Seymar projects, and I'd like to see if there is in comparison how that particular contractor or that person was chosen, and if there is any inconsistencies or consistencies of how they were chosen, that shouldn't be difficult to get. Thank you. Anyone else? Let me could I just could I just understand her question again? Is that okay? I just want her to repeat. I want to understand her question.

So we have active we have active semar projects right and we have you can tell that there are different firms right I want to know he can pick any two. I want to know um if there are any consistencies or any inconsistencies on how they were determined to get to that point. Yes ma'am. Right. All the Yeah, I like that. Thank you, Billy.

Thank you so much. Thank you for your presentation. Um, I just have two questions. Uh, Miranda, you said that there's a person here in the city that oversees DBE participation and what have you. Compliance. The Yes. Who is that person? Salary Moa. Rella. [snorts] Salamary Moika. Rell. Okay. Um, how often does she go on on that? Is a female, right? Yes, ma'am.

Thank you. How often does she go on these sites to actually see that DBE participation is actually taking place? and and [snorts] does she also um make sure that the number of DBE participants under that subcontracting company is actually there on site. So,

and and let me tell you why I asked this because during the arena [snorts] process that was not the case and that's why it was so much uh questioning about DBE participation and so many meetings about DBE participation. So, is she physically now or when did she start doing that? She was not with us during the arena. Okay. So who was because was that being implemented or is that just starting now since she got there during that during that time? Um even even Miranda Latson was not in place yet. So it's a whole different She was because I spoke with her.

No, she was not. We had I was here. She came in on the end. She came in on the end. Well, that's what I'm talking about. I'm talking about when I got here. Yeah, she was at the end. So I'm not talking about in the beginning. I'm talking about when I got here. when me and you met with all of the uh contractors or what have you. It was only me and Deion Gibbs at that point. Okay. So, we didn't have That's what I'm asking. We now have somebody in place. That's what I wanted to know. Yes. Okay. Now, Huh. She said a year and a half. She's been here a year and a half. She's been here since about 2003. Since 2003. I'm sorry. 23. Oh, sorry.

2023. 23. Okay. Now, um and I thanked, um Christie, this is a question for you. Um the Seamar, do they typically self-perform physical construction? Do they actually do they are not supposed to do any construction? They're just overseeing um the preconstruction. Typically, they don't self-perform. They just manage their subcontractors. They just managed the Wow, that's interesting.

Okay. Um, yes, ma'am. And Miss Lumpkin, we talked about you said about the uh DBE participation on some of our projects. Um, I'm still waiting on that list. I didn't see it. I don't. You did? Well, I didn't get it. So, well, I tell you what, and get that to me.

Thank you so much. And could you make sure I get a hard copy? Just put it in my my box. Okay. Um let's see. Okay. That person now is the imp you asked last two weeks ago. Yes. They're on the Tuesday night. Oh, those those are the questions. Okay. Well, I we had a meeting with you, so I didn't look at the memo. So, if just give me a hard copy. All right. Thank you. So, now let me ask you this, Mr. City Manager. The IMP

project, I'm sorry, and D project. Thank you. Thank you. Um, is that a different type of project than any other project that we have here in the in the city? Is that like a a special I mean it's um yes uh being one of the largest capital construction projects in our history. I understand that. But I'm saying do we not do that project the same way we do other projects under the CMR? Is that like a a special um the it's a it's a Seymour procurement just like other CRA procurements were? Oh, we got to have a conversation.

Okay. All right. Thank y'all for your presentation. Anyone else? I got another question for Wait, wait, wait, wait. Anyone else? Alderable woman. Yes. Thank you. Thank you all Miranda for the presentation. Um

the construction manager at risk project and and this concept is not new. It's been around. Um when I worked in local government, I was at public works, one of the team putting the bids together to get contractors to bid. When I left local government, I was working for contractors going after those contracts. I worked for a lot of the local contractors as a consultant, helping them secure uh local bids, national bids. And one of the desires of the local contractors was that we had this in place on some jobs on certain jobs. And this was this was talked about a lot. So, it's good to see that the city now will have our person at the table managing all the moving parts because that's what this is really all about. Um, and so that's a good thing. Now, as it relates to our overall bidding process, I'm so glad we had the equity piece early prior to this because I'm not feeling comfortable about this process as far as equity. I think we need to be a little bit more transparent when it comes to the subjective parts of the process. The interview seemed like that's where the numbers always get skewed and go arai when it comes the time for these subject matter experts and the interview part to have a personal subjective opinion on these contractors because all of a sudden it's going different in different uh directions. Um as far as tangible and concrete parts of these proposals, you can't deny those numbers and numbers. They speak for themselves. The tangibles are the tangibles, but the non-tangles and subjectives is where you having a problem. So, I'm glad now we are entering into a more equitable environment so we can start watching these things. I don't know how we have more because of the the uh technicalities in the bidding process. I don't know how we'll put more um transparency in that part, but we got to work on something. Y'all are really

smart. I know y'all figure it out. Um but if if we had to make it a thing for us to figure out, we could do that, too. But I'm trusting that y'all will be able to work that out under our new GPS. uh Savannah GPS process um in in saying that the Seymar uh desire was there for the some of a lot of the local contractors I was hired um to look at the city's MWBE program back around 2014. uh another consultant, very brilliant young lady, Caroline Ellen and I, we did a lot of research and I pulled information out of Delaware, out of Charlotte, out of Jacksonville and we were hired by local contractors to do this work and we came up with a policy that would we borrowed from all of those and came up with the best measures to create um a policy on MWBE and WBE and those people that hired us to do that work. uh we submitted that work to them and they gave it to uh uh Alderman Alderwoman Shabbaz at the time because she was interested in that subject. So you all did get to see our work that came and and uh right now I know we need to revisit that work. Uh those numbers look pretty good, but I'm sure it's some more work we can do because we wanted to make sure that we could create some prime contractors in our process and we talked about that in 2020. We hadn't done that. Uh we were going to partner some primes and subs and come up with um and help build capacity because that was always a problem. Capacity capacity and so we haven't done that. So we need to I I've mentioned this to Jake. So that that program we talked about a whole lot in this room in 2020. We haven't done anything on that. So let's let's I just wanted to mention that. Although I know we're talking about Semar, but the SEMA process for certain projects is is a is a good way to go. So, thank you all for the work that you're doing. And that's my two cents. Older woman Wilder Bright and then older woman. That's be our last

person.

Just just really a quick question. Um, and this is for Miss Lumpy. Your your scores continue to increase. Um, Miss Lumpton. Congratulations on your scores increasing. Tell us this council what we need to do to get on the fast track. So, they're really where is the gap? Where is the problem where there is not more increase in the DD program? What do we need to do? What what does the city process when we talk about processes and systems in place? What do we need to do to encourage more participation in this plan? There's there's still a need for more MW firm, more minority firms to become certified and that is our way forward. the more we have certified um it it will improve and strengthen the program. So um we're we're we're watching what is happening at uh w with the DBE program uh federally and with the state, but our local program is where we will rely. And so we want to encourage more minority businesses to become certified by the city of Savannah. Now, I remember you and and your staff and uh y'all went over the process and y'all kind of streamlined the application after y'all did this. Did did it increase because

Yeah. So, that's what I'm talking about. Things like that so that we can where there's a roadblock where the participants say they can't do that and thank you for that challenging and uh kind of tweaking that application. Is there anything else that can be done other than people wanting to come and actually being participants? continue to be uh continue to be consistent in the message so that participation continues to be consistent. Mr. City Manager, is there a way we have this channel 8? Is there a way that we can encourage that by I seeing the um people who do that? We need to do more than that. Yeah. Can you um some more marketing since we have a new marketing director kind of encourage that so we can get more engagement?

Yeah. Yeah. Part of the problem that we have is that we have these really good processes and then we don't get them to the masses so that they can effectively change the quality of their life. Thank you so much. Thank you all for your presentation. I appreciate you and we and we used to do that. Um it was real good when we first got started. A woman um thank you Mayor Fim. Thank you Mr. City Manager for staging this presentation today. Thank you Christie Miranda for giving it to us. It was quite insightful. I requested it and I can tell from the response that the council seemed to um benefited from it as well. Thank you, Alderwoman Bryan.

Yes, ma'am. for uh asking for a walk through of a couple of the projects. I just think for the money that we're spending on Seymour projects, it's extremely important that we as council members who vote and make these decisions that we understand the process and going forward. Thank you, Miranda, for explaining your process on kind on monitoring um minority participation in these projects. I do I'm trying really to fall in love with this process because I'm from the old you know um design what is it bid

yeah that's what I low bid that so I'm trying to understand it and I do understand I think that it's important on some projects for specific projects because it removes the risk from the city in terms of um cost overruns as all the woman referred to, but there I still have a ways to go. But I'm really key on and that's what I'm going to be questioning monitoring the participation. I don't want us to just take the um construction man construction manager at risk reports

as your um you know your um uh records or or your your word. His word is what we're relying on. He or she, we're relying on what they say participation is and we're paying accordingly. I want to make sure that some boots on the ground. Yes, ma'am. That we are having conversations with the subcontractors as well as the prime so that communication goes forward. Thank you. Thank you, city manager. Thank you all so much.

One more presentation, council. We're going to move to our um update on the urban camping ordinance that council adopted June 12th earlier this year. Um we're going to uh hopefully move through it um as quickly as possible. Um so I will turn it over to Stephanie Cable um who is the executive director of the inter agency council on homelessness and she is joined um by our assistant chief Bob G.

Good afternoon now and thank you and we will try to move through this uh as quickly as possible because we know we stand between you and lunch. So if you recall on June 12th of this year we passed our urban camping ordinance here in the city of Savannah. The focus of this ordinance was to connect unhoused individuals to services while reducing health and safety risk associated with public camping. And at that time, I know that you all had some concerns. And I hope today that we'll be able to address those concerns in this presentation to ensure that we are continuing to use this as a tool to help people connect to services and not as a way to punish individuals for their situation. I think the big key takeaway as we've worked on this ordinance together is that it's led to improved partnership between our homeless service network and our justice system partners, sparking an unprecedented collaboration in our work together that has allowed for more outreach connection to services and done so in a way that is respectful of the individuals who are having the experience of homelessness. So, uh, this is a snapshot of what we did during the the 90-day period and, uh, was 179 citations were issued. Um, of those 15 arrests, um, were made for under the urban camping ordinance, six were specifically only for that. So that means of those other 11 uh um I'm sorry other nine the uh they were arrest on warrants or other charges that were pending against them at that time. Um and then so 8% of the citations that we wrote led to an actual arrest.

If you can see here this is something that Savannah PD produced. This is their urban camping uh pamphlet. That was one of the things that was requested. How do we get information to to those who are experiencing homelessness? Anything you'd like to share about this in particular?

It just uh it's ease of use. It's giving them all of the uh the associated um service providers and service things. Um there's also QR codes to help um pull this up if they have a phone or digital tablets. and and then there's an explanation of some of the ordinances um that apply to some of the things that they may um encounter along with the hope unit. And this is just our procedures uh you know we have written procedures for all those type things. This this kind of goes through the warnings um in reference to this and this is all documentation that is uh given to the officers for training and uh this is has to do with the property. Um, so if someone has property and they are uh arrested, uh, it gives them guidelines on what to do with the property and how we handle it internally.

I'm sorry, ma'am. Excuse me. It's uh, it should be in the PowerPoint there, but it's uh, slide six in your PowerPoint for this section.

Thank you. and Savannah PD just recognizing how important it is to help these individuals maintain their property has been working very closely to ensure that that happens that it is secured. Of course, there's limitations. We do not want to take spoiled items or food that could create additional issues, but they are actually working to establish their own storage unit for those items. So, if an individual is detained for a while, they will have a place to store those items that they're safe. And so upon their release or connection to services, they can regain those valuable items for themselves. Looking at the service provider side of this. So if you look on the right hand side, you'll see that of those 179 individuals who are cited under this, 135 are engaged in our homeless management information services. So we were able to see that 75% are interacting with our system of care. 30% of the individuals did then go to shelter after that engagement with the officers. The 70% engaged in other additional services which we will discuss further in the next couple of slides. 47 bus tickets have been purchased through the homeless authority to help individuals relocate to confirmed housing since this ordinance has passed. That shows us that while we don't know that those individuals were directly cited, they did look at this as an opportunity to perhaps make a choice that would allow them get back to to more stable housing opportunities. Those are confirmed housing opportunities as well. The homeless authority works very closely and carefully to make sure that we are not just moving our problem to another part um or another community. You'll also see that we've also produced the homeless authority produced an updated guide which explains the ordinance in a little bit more simplified terms but also really highlights how do you access those services and even provides a map of how

to get to some of those services. Additionally, the CH has established our criminal justice systems partners and homelessness committee. We are now meeting regularly. That includes Savannah PD, um Chattam County PD, Sheriff's Department, both the city and the county manager, as well as leadership from the CH and our business community coming together to look for effective solutions. So, we're not just creating more problems, but trying to resolve the issues as we move forward. We have seen um an increased cooperation between the SPD hope team, the homeless authorities streets to stability team, as well as Trinity UMC's square one. So, we're really focusing our outreach much more specifically, multiple points of outreach, so that everyone has that chance to engage in services, learn about services. We know outreach is key. You got to have it continuously. We have to keep going back and re-engaging those individuals. This also leads us to our next point here where we now have the homeless authorities triage team embedded at Union Missions Day Center. And Union Missions data center continues to see increased numbers uh as high as 176 during September in one day. And I don't believe that this is just because of the ordinance. I believe it's because we are continuing to increase services there. We have the showers there. We have the homeless authority there. We have mental health care options, physical health care options, job training, connections to housing. 32 connections to shelter and housing have been made through the day center from people entering the day center this year alone. And additionally, you'll also see we've now started our monthly homeless court pop-up sessions at the day center. It's a chance where you can come up and ask any questions. We sit outside. We have card tables out. I have a number of our attorneys from Chattam County and we're sitting out there and we're just answering criminal case questions, helping them reschedule their cases, if the tickets have been resolved, moving them to service providers that can be an

alternative to them as they're addressing these cases. I have to say, uh, we did one the other week and in my years of working in homelessness, this is probably going to be one of the standout days of my top 10 days because 35 people came up to us and they all walked away saying, "Thank you. you helped me get this under control. So, even if we can't solve the problem right there, we are building that trust and that engagement to move forward. This is a copy of the homeless authorities. They're updated. As you can see, we have the map on there, a great number of services. So, there's multiple ways we're connecting and again the QR code because we know for some individuals they can scan in. As you can see, the 8% of those who have been cited led to an arrest. But more importantly, the 75% who are engaged in our system are engaging in very effective services. 30% in shelter, 30% uh 30% working with our outreach teams, 15% in uh engaging with case management, and 9% engaging with legal services. And this is not counting our homeless corps. This is actually working with legal services to reestablish identification, vital documents, uh help address, you know, maybe issues that are preventing them from getting their social security disability. Really working through these issues and engaging individuals. Certainly, we know we've not uh we've not reached a perfect system yet. We probably never will. We will always be evaluating our services and continuing to make sure that we are meeting those needs. We have identified a couple of programs that we think can really make a huge difference. Uh dignity depot, which would be a storage unit of personal property. So individuals not just facing arrest but just that they need they would like to enter a service provider or they'd like to enter treatment but they don't want to lose the things that are valuable to them. So we have a well uh prepared and proposal for a service that is ready to go. Uh we have a number

attached to that. We also are looking at a funded pet shelter program. Our partners at Renegade Paws have been fantastic working with the homeless authority. Homeless authority has transported quite a number of unique animals uh with their team. So, they are not just taking care of people, they're taking care of their pets, but we would like to be able to expand that and be able to offer that service more consistently and support our partners at Renegade Paw. Again, we have a number, we have an outline for this. The CH developed both of these programs through the service delivery group with Jen Dong helping us develop these programs and we are now moving these to our resource development group. They're going to meet November 4th to talk about how do we establish the funding to do this and where will these programs live. Lastly on that needs list, we truly need a sobering center. But this is a bigger need than just for our individuals experiencing homelessness. This is also for individuals throughout our community that need a place where jail may not be the right place for them to go if they are over intoxicated, but let's get them into a place where they can get on. As lastly, you see we've been improving our ways that we could apply service. We have a QR code being established which will instantly refer make that referral to the outreach team with the homeless authority. They've also completed ongoing training that is centered on how do we handle these outreach situations with respect and dignity. And then lastly, we continue to work on how do we provide immediate mental health care. So, as the city manager said earlier, you know, there are people that talk and there are people that do. And I think in the case of this ordinance, we have been doing uh since this came come into action, we are doing it. We are continuing to find the resources and bring them to life. And while the ordinance can be a difficult situation to work with, I think we're finding a way to make it continue to be focused on connection to service and not onto criminalization of homelessness. Thank you. Any question?

Thank you so much for for this presentation, city manager.

Yes, ma'am. Thank you. Um just want to highlight a few things. Thank you, Stephanie. Thank you, um AC Gavin. We're joined by the homeless authority chairwoman, uh Jennifer Davenport. um and the executive director of the homeless authority um Jennifer Del Long um who uh without their partnership and they're doing uh none of this work would be possible. There's nothing in the data for the first 90 days of this ordinance that gives me pause um that we're implementing this um in a way that's detrimental to either our community um or to people in our community who are experiencing homelessness. Um I've been in homelessness um a long time in my career. Uh there's a you know a thought around therapeutic disruption um and helping people to um um kind of move through um the systems and services that we have available. I think the data shows in some real key places where some of that engagement um is helping to connect people with services that um uh will be beneficial to them. whether that's shelter, um whether that's transportation support to a permanent home, um uh the actions that council have taken to expand hours, to expand outreach, to expand programs at Union Mission and other key partners. Um I think, you know, the the the ordinance is is testing that system. I'm testing our capacity there. We're going to have to continue to invest in those programs and those solutions. Um, but I think that this tool, as we discussed back in June, um, it seems to be a tool that is, um, that is helping us achieve some of our results. And I want to give a huge thank you to our police department and to our hope unit. Um, uh, this is not easy work. Um, and, uh, and police officers often have to be everything in

our community. um clinicians, therapists, friends, mentors, um and law enforcement officers and they're doing a phenomenal job being all those things in this effort. So, thank you Chief Punther, thank you AC and thank you to the entire unit. Any questions? Yes.

Yes. Uh Aldwoman Laneir, Alic uh no questions, comment. Uh this isn't easy work and thank you all for the work that you're doing. Um, I have received some phone calls because I'm working with some people on the streets that work with some homeless people about four phone calls of some I would say complaints and I haven't brought them to you because I realize that this isn't easy and it's a process and I think everyone involved have to uh get a little bit accustomed to how we're going to proceed in this area. But um we do want to and and police officers have a lot to contend with. But we we do want to try to treat people well and and respectful, you know, as we do this work. And that's all I'm going to say about it.

All I don't have a question. Thanks, Stephanie. I as everybody can understand, this isn't easy work. Thank you to my colleagues for approving this ordinance since I brought it to the council and um we did get it approved. I couldn't stop there because someone asked a question. So after they arrested what then? I did not plan for this to be one of my pet initiatives on council this year. But I couldn't turn my back on it. and Stephanie to you and AC Gavin. I do want to say that there is another bright light that you guys probably haven't um been told of and that is the faith-based community in this uh city have come together and have decided to be a partner in the work above and beyond what they're already doing. So we met um in September and um we are trying to not only get them to do feed the provide feeding centers or um clothes you know but also to provide money to support and I I really the ask I'm thinking about uh Pastor Thurman from St. Paul CME and I just mentioned him because when we got to the end of the presentation he said so what's the ask? So, the ask is for each of those churches to include uh homelessness in their 26 budget. Uh whatever the amount may be, but I know it would be um helpful and there's still kind of um you know um we still have have an opportunity to engage them even more. So, we have their attention and they are willing to step up to the plate. So, thank you all. Thank you for all you do

and for taking my calls. Blakeley.

Thank you, Mayor Pro Tim. Um, I think this question is for you, Mr. City Manager. We have uh one, two, three, four, five. Five day centers. How much money does the city can I get that information? How much money does the city donate to these day centers? Um, and the reason I ask is because it takes a lot of time, energy, and effort. I've actually worked with come as you are ministries, and I know those people need a lot of uh help financially uh for some of the things that they done. I spoke to um what's her name over at the dive and they need resources. They need financial backing. And and I know you're going to say that, okay, we can get other entities to help and what have you, but I'm just curious because you hear me say all the time, our city operates on Antabella money. So, I just want to know how much of the resources are we giving to these day centers who so desperately need help. So, if you could get that information to me, I would greatly appreciate it.

Thank you so much. Anyone else? Yes, ma'am. All the Wilder Bryant.

Yeah. Um, I guess my better judgment I I did vote for this uh but I feel some anticipation and some anxiety about this especially when we come to this property. I'm not going to feel [clears throat] uh that we can move forward on this. I got 50 years 50 years of community service and 16 of those in law enforcement. I actually ran the property room and so I would like to see a chain of custody because that's what's important. You we are saying that there were six arrests for urban camping ordinance only. Yes, ma'am.

And I get that. All right. So 179 citations were issued. Yes, ma'am.

And six of those were for urban camping. Can you tell me what time of the day? I I would want to know what time because that's important because we keep saying that we wanted to money is important, right? Money is important and we wanted to extend the hours and so I bet you that those those arrests were made during the hours that we don't have any available [clears throat] assistance for them. The other thing is uh most of the people uh who are homeless actually have uh mental health issues. Out of those citations, were they evaluated by your staff? Hope that does eval does the evaluation on um the arrests. And the other question, as they go through the criminal justice system, what is the med medium time frame that they actually stay incarcerated? I'm just trying to get you all those questions at one time. And were those were those uh arrests actually attached to felonies or were they all misdemeanors? and um the property room from uh the rescue that goes to the the county, the sheriff's department. I would want to see that chain of custody of that extra property because that's what's important to me. We are saying that uh homelessness is something that we needed to address and I voted for that because we did and we're saying that we have all these partnerships and that you guys are doing a great job with the partnerships. But um what about the homeless people in their property? You know, how long are they staying in incarcerated because they're homeless? Because that is the question. We're saying that it's not a um illegal thing, but it is. And I think so, and that's my

opinion after working with homeless people for over 50 years in this community and in Atlanta. And so, we have to do better. I know we have to do things, but we're now talking about arresting people, right? We're talking about their property. We're talking about when they get out, are they going to get that property? So, is that chain of custody of their property the same thing that the county has? I want to make sure I get at least a police report that says that some actual property was taken. Yes, ma'am.

I'm sending you an example of of one of those arrests at the property in the property room and how that is. So, everything that enters into a property room has to have a chain of custody, has to have uh release mechanisms, um time frames on all of those. That's under state and federal law that guide those. So we couldn't put anything into a property room without it having a chain of custody and and following those guidelines. But as as for your other these are city ordinances. So city ordinances don't carry um a lot of u you would say jail time. Um they're more u on the lower misdemeanor levels. And so with a city ordinance, uh the the pro once they're processed um that those items that are taken and we did that training with the officers to show them how we can do things. The only things that like we can't take in are hazardous materials, drugs of you know illegal drugs and and any kind of food or things like that that would you know um spoil or or do things like that. So everything else is is collected along with their items. And you'll see we've created larger bags and boxes. We even have larger ones than that that are 4 foot by 3 foot. And you can fill those with tents, uh, chairs, things like that. We've, uh, got very large backpacks that have come in. So, all of those things are held. They have a 90-day. They're all given that information. If it's whether it's safekeeping or if it's evidence. If it's evidence, that means it's evidence of a crime. um that gets stayed as long as there is a um you know as long as there is criminal case attached to it. Everything else is safekeeping and so that person's explained they um one of the things is we explain to the person where they can get their items from how they can get them that we're holding them for

safekeeping. Um and they have up to 90 days to to come and get those things. So, um, even if they get out, um, while they're looking for some of the services that can be provided to them, we're still holding on to that property for 90 days.

That's not what I'm suggesting. I know they're doing that. What I am suggesting, you said they're misdemeanor charges, but because I've actually worked in corrections and was a sergeant at the sheriff department. I understand that those people who are homeless who come in there, they don't always stay, they stay longer because they have mental health issues. I'm wanting to make sure that these arresties who are homeless that they're getting adequate attention because the the sheriff's department recently had a a death somebody expired and they were homeless. I want to make sure that and I know you were over that and so I know you're going through that, right? But I want to make sure that that these that our homeless people, they are citizens, that when they are incarcerated, that they get the medical and mental attention that they need so that we won't have another expiration in the jail that we have because he was homeless. And the other question is, and we all know from experience, and I'm talking from experience, sometimes people come in the jail, punish people because they want to get off the street, but there are other people who go in there and they create fights and and then they get other additional charges. So that's why the the mental health component on that is uh equally important. And I want to do we're talking about the disability. what what changed downtown since we enacted this city ordinance?

And so really I think uh and um she she can answer also, but I think on our end the the this just gives us legal authority to approach and have those discussions. The majority of these are warnings and they're giving people time to officers are approaching and saying that you can't set up here, you can't camp here. Um, and then they they they explain to them about the ordinance and then they give them a reasonable amount of time to to be able to move, pack up their things and do stuff. So, this is not something where we're coming up and taking people to J sighting. We're giving them uh ample warning and and we've worked with the homeless authority for the last couple years on on trying to do better on on giving people some warnings. There's some things on private property that if an owner wants someone off right away, we have to address that. But when it comes to this public um camping, you know, we have the ability and the the leeway to give people opportunities and in the meantime try to find them things. Uh you know, if there is a mental health issue, our behavioral health unit goes throughout the homeless camps and and and on a daily basis with the clinician. And so a lot of those assessments are being done. um they, you know, might not be there, but officers are already trained that if they see someone that is suffering from a mental health crisis that they call our BHU over um and and have them come do an assessment before any kind of jailing or things like that happen.

So, so again, uh now I want to talk about the the the police officers and thank you Gavin just one other question. Okay. So, one other statement um in dealing with this property were these uh non-compliances are they mostly in one particular um concentrated area? I'm saying that is uh can we equip our police officers um with I know this bag right here probably came from um the county jail. Good thing for you to

It's yours. So, does everybody have this so that when they're going through this property, there is a cleaning mechanism where it's not going to mess up the car? Cuz as a police officer, I would not want to have something, you know, in my car that's going to, you know, imminate a a smell that I have to work in that car until I can clean it up. So, are we furnishing our police officers with equipment so they can so it's not discarded? because you know a lot of people who have mental health issues, you don't really know what they have or what they don't have. They're not saying that that that an officer would throw the stuff away, but I want to make sure that that they have uh um items in their car so that their contraband uh is discarded, but their personal um all they have in the world is taken to that and not because of a smell. Just want to make sure that we close the gap since we initiated this ordinance. want to make sure that we take care of them as best we can and thank you for your your thing and I know what you do with the mental health and thank you for your thing and I want to also thank uh our community partners um the land bank um CHSA and uh the homes authority for the great work uh the end results of those 39 cottages. We know that they're working towards um doing things that like the mayor says taking care of all of our citizens at the same time. So, thank you, Jen. Thank you, Jen. Again, again, Jen one and two. I appreciate your time and your efforts in trying to to create a better environment for all of our citizens. And thank you, Mr. City Manager.

Alderman um Leot is going to be our last person to talk on this and then we I would need a motion for executive session. Okay.

Um thank you, Mayor Pro Tim. Um I don't have any questions. I thank you guys for all the work you do. And um I just um want to lift up a couple of things that I'm going to give to and I'm going to write it for uh to give to your staff, Mr. City Manager, that um as we know, we all know next month uh it's going to be a potential halt on food stamps for a lot of individuals in our community. So, we just all we find a way to work together so we'll be able to help some of our houseless, our homeless and um in our community. But I want to make sure that I highlight that uh if we can, will we be back here again to uh get another update from our community partners on this issue? Yes, sir.

Yes, sir.

So, when we come back, can we get audit on all of those different processes? And I'm talking about the uh when individuals enter certain um through this process or they go into a homeless authority or they go into one of our partners. Uh what does that process look like? And once they get in signed in, what does that look like once they return back into the uh into the community or what does all of those different issues that they go through while they going through those processes look like? And um I wanted to make sure I highlight to you that I had to call code enforcement at one of our pro at one of our uh institutions because they had a very very high infestation of bed bugs and uh they had to call some people in because of some of our um some of our homeless was complain about being bitten by bed bugs and and the family members that were in there. Um, also I wanted to highlight that there were in some of those areas they had people that were complaining of being robbed of their personal effects. Um, and also is there I heard a rumor of but I wanted to make sure is there such thing that they're asking our homeless to pay to stay

in certain are certain places that they go to. Salvation Army is pay to stay. How can we ask them to pay to stay if they are homeless

in certain areas? So that's why some people are at gas stations and other places asking for monies not for drugs or for food but to be able to pay to stay in certain places. And um I'm I'm also um going to send an email from that I received from CA that um I wanted to uh highlight to our our our chiefs that it was a it was an arrest made by one of our officers in the northwest precinct and the officer had a uh individual in handcuffs but when he lifted him against the car and pulled him away he dropped down in this guy's face who which was homeless broke his jaw and that guy um I didn't get anything back. I know that he was arrested, taken to jail and he was a homeless individual. So, we're over at CAD also working with our homeless partners to address a lot of the homeless issues that we have. But I wanted to highlight most of all that the the people that we are saying that we represent. Those are individuals that we have to be very sensitive to because of mental health issues and also because uh they they deserve some type of decency because we don't know anyone around this table who may become homeless or may go through some type of issue or have a family member that may deal with that type of issue. But I will uh have this written out and give it to you officer.

Thank you. Yes, sir. We'll answer all those questions and yes, I think we should do not only a continuation on this but a system deep dive and we'll work with our partners on PA and reduce those numbers. Real quick, all the Blakeley. Yes, thank you. Um Stephanie, is it

okay? I don't know how we could go about doing this, but um I see a lot of homeless individuals on our medians and they leave a lot of trash. Is there some way you could put up a sign? Because obviously we can't do anything about them standing on those corners asking for donations, but is there any way you could convey the message to them? clean up where you stand because when I tell you especially on Abacorn and Victory Drive,

Abacorn and Duren, um the major thorough affairs, that's where you see a lot of trash and you know, I can't knock them for trying to get a money to get a place to stay, but clean up the area because it's looking really really bad in our city. Something on the Yes, sir. woman move to enter executive session for the secondary. Thank you all so much. We've had a motion and second. All in favor? All closes. We'll be back at in our chambers at 2:00.

We did something. It's not being implemented. What did we do? We did something last year. also got some modern artifacts as well. We got a lot of plastic and uh plastic bags and just uh rubber and all kinds of modern uh debris. So by digging these sample units, we realized that the upper zone was actually mixed up pretty heavily. You know, this area had been used as a parking lot for for several years with cars rolling back and forth and a lot of the ground had eroded. But even before that, um when the the houses were torn down in the 1970s, a lot of the ground surface and the debris got mixed up by the machinery that was tearing down the houses. So even though this looks like a really good zone intact, it's actually got a pretty good mixture of things going on in it. So we got below that zone and started screening this or sifting this soil here, here, and down below to where I'm standing. And then we started getting to parts that were actually intact. Um the so the artifacts in these zones do get older as you go down and they're not mixed up. They're not all disturbed. So that's what we like because it's a lot easier to figure out who belongs to what. which artifacts belong to which people and how are they being used over time. Um so we got a good sample of that through all these units that we screen the soil before we came along with the backhoe and started stripping these larger areas which helped us get rid of the disturbed zones and get down to the intact features. Um and we have a series of features throughout here. As you look down these units, you can see a lot of what look like craters. It's really nice and flat until you get to these craters.

And each one of these uh areas that have been dug out were features that um the different archaeologists working on the crew came along and excavated and documented each one. So you can see there's a lot going on in this small space, a lot of u pits, a couple of post holes, and again this part of the site was showed more artifacts from the late 17 early 1800s. So this area was more used more heavily during that period. And we have evidence for that from the features that we're finding in the ground and from the artifacts within these features. And I'll give you example of some of the more recent artifact features we're finding. Over here we have a series of three features that are all real similar and they're all really interesting. They're all post and you can see it's been dug out. It was a circle. You can kind of see what it looked like before it got dug out. There's still part of it in the wall here. You can see the outline here up here. And then you can also see another outline right here. Perhaps you can see that. Um, but basically this looks like it was dug out to be a post. They put the post in, uh, filled the back dirt back in back in and the post rotted and got filled in with other layers of dirt and artifacts. But, um, the interesting thing about these three posts are they're very large. Um they're larger than the average um post that you would expect to find. They're also very deep, deeper than what you would think would be the average post. Um and also they didn't have any or very little ceramics in them, very little dishes, um a lot of iron hardware, a lot of nails. So the types of artifacts coming out of them, their the depth of the feature and the size of the feature all suggest that these three artifacts are probably industrial posts that these posts were put in for some industry and most likely um to do with the railroad because the roundhouse is right behind us or right next to us. Um so if we look at these posts, if we find others on the site, we

can figure out from the patterning of the post um possibly what the railroad was doing out here. if they were um we know they owned the corner lot at one period of time. So, how were they using this lot and what were they doing with these giant post out here? It's kind of interesting. This feature over here shows a better example of a post. Um it's similar to this one, but you can actually see what we call the mold. You can actually see that dark zone in there is where the post was set. They dug the hole, the post was put in there, they backfilled all this with dirt, and then when the post rotted, it left that really good post mold. So, we have three really good examples of uh probably industrial period post out here. Okay. Um all around me, you can see all these little flags. The pin flags mark spots where there were stains in the ground, um what we call features. You can see this particular area, it's all dug out. Everywhere it's dug out was a different kind of feature, different kind of stain. And several of these were pits, these small shallow pits. And then the deeper ones were actually post where posts were and they either rotted in the ground or in some cases people yanked the post out and other dirt and debris fell into the post hole. So um also we're getting well behind me here you can see an excavation that's in progress. Um whoops getting caught up here too. So this particular spot was a big circle here. You can see the outline, the edge of it. An archaeologist cut it in half, dug out this half. And you can see the profile real well. You can see it's a nice post that's actually in at an angle. And you can see some of the objects that got caught up in the post after the post rotted and it caved in and and debris got washed in and filled in. So you can see some of the artifacts. It's got a bowl there, an oyster shell, um, a bone, rib bone from an animal. Um, so all kinds of things going on there. You can see the nice,

uh, post mold in here. You can see the same thing on this side. There's another post that's vertical and it's really nicely defined in here, too. So, the neat thing about the post again are they can tell us where structures used to be. Um, if we figure out the patterns, if we mark all the post here and figure out the patterns, we excavate each one and keep the artifacts separate, then when we we'll know which posts go together, which ones date from the same time period. So, we can then figure out of all the post out here, which ones are connected, which ones we can draw lines around. Say there was a square structure here, there was an out building here from the 1800s, or this house is from the 1920s. So we can all really figure out what was here even though there's nothing standing, nothing above above ground to see now. Okay, we have other kinds of features out here as well. Um to my right you can see a big uh trash pit. It might turn out to be a privy. We haven't excavated it yet. There's one here and then there's one we started excavating. You can see it makes a big circle. We cut it in half and dug out this side of it. And you can see in the side view what we call the profile. All kinds of different dirt layers when it was filled in different at different time periods. And then you can see a lot of pieces of bottles and broken dishes poking out of the the profile there. So again, it's it's very full of a lot of different kinds of trash. Um and because of the way we dig it, we'll be able to figure out when the trash was thrown in here and hopefully whose trash it was and how they were using that before they threw it away. So, um, this is a more modern feature, a more recent feature, um, from the 19 probably 40s or so, but it helps us figure out what life was like out in this lot during that period of time. So, we have the whole spectrum out here. We've got, um, more modern trash pits, we've got older trash pits from the early 1800s. Uh, so the whole mix. So, it'll be good information. Um, a good page of history really is what we're looking at all throughout here.

Some other kinds of examples of features are over here. Oh wow, this one looks different. We cleaned it off today. Um, this is actually a square feature. You can make out the stain here. Uh, this this might actually turn out to be a privy based on the shape in plan view. So, we're going to excavate this hopefully if we have time, excavate it and figure out what's in it and who was using it. Again, get that information about the people that lived out here. So, we look at several different things. We look at the shape of a stain in plan view or as you look down on it. And then we look at the shape of a stain in profile or side view as you look in across into it to figure out how was that feature used and what created it. So, we document everything we do. Part of that documentation includes cleaning it all off, making a map of it um in plan and on side view or profile and then

photographing it because once we dig it out, you know, it's it's easy to forget, well, what did this look like? Which layer was on top of which, uh, you know, where were these bricks placed? So, the the photo documentation can really help us figure it out. So anyway, that's what's going to be a privy probably is turning into a privy. Okay.

U and that's the feature that little shell ornament came out of with the S on it. But the upper part, like I said, the shaft part of it seems to be disturbed by, you know, possibly leaders who have been out here over the years digging for bottles. Um possibly just a modern disturbance where people dig holes and throw their trash on top of other people's trash. So, we we don't know that yet for sure which one it is, but it's definitely disturbed at the top. Um, we're hoping the bottom's got more potential for information. This shows a nice brick footing here intact. And we've shot all of these features and all of the brick work and all the different stains in the ground. We've shot all those in with the laser transit. Um, so then we'll be able to make a really big map, a good accurate map of where all these things are located. And that's when you really start figuring out what goes with what. You know, what did what house did this brick footing go with? Is it on a house that's on the bird's eye view? Is it on a house that's on the sandborn maps from, you know, 1916 or 1871? Or where, you know, where does this fall? Or is it a house that's predates all of those maps? So, we don't know. So, we're going to take our map and overlay it onto some more modern lot maps and figure out um where things were and and try to figure out the relationships between all these different features and between the bricks that we have showing up, the brick footings. And that's just one part of the process of doing the lab work and the final analysis.

Okay, this is an example of the some of the kinds of documentation we do on features. Um before we start digging one, we go ahead and map it all in. This shows the outline of the feature. Um, and then each of the different colors that show up and different soil colors, um, we ex we, uh, map that in and then we photograph it like we were just seeing with that other feature. And then we cut it the feature in half and dig out half of it. And that's when we figure out, you know, what what the shape looks like in in side view. Um, so for example, we cut this one in half uh this way and drew what it looked like in side view. And you can still see that over in the ground today because we haven't taken out the other half. But you can see uh that one that's cut in the middle there. And that one actually turned out to be a root. At first we thought it was going to be a post um because it had the right shape and it kept going down was pointed, but it kept kept going. That was the problem. It kept going and going and we could clearly see that there was a tap routt going off of there. So we realized it was in fact a root. And that's really important because when you're getting objects, artifacts out of there, you know, if it's a post, we can tie that post again to the structures that were out here in the time period that would have been used. But if it's a tree, then it's just a tree growing out here in a the art the roots kind of grab artifacts as it goes from different time periods. So, it's real important to know, you know, where these objects are coming from. Um, you know, anybody can go out somewhere and dig up stuff, dig up a bottle or use a metal detector and find metal objects. um and you have an object, but it's kind of like if you have a bunch of pieces of a jigsaw puzzle, you know, if you go out to a different site and and find a bottle, it's like finding one piece of a jigsaw puzzle. You go home and put that in a box. You go out to another site, find a a belt buckle, you put that home in your box, it's like having another piece of a jigsaw puzzle. And so, pretty soon at home, you have a whole box of all these

beautiful like pictures, but they don't fit together. They don't make any sense. They might look pretty, but you can't put the picture together. you can't put the puzzle together because they're from all different places. They're from all different places on one site and they're from all different sites as well. So, um it's really the documentation, the procedure that archaeology uses is what, you know, gathers the information from the objects and from the soil around them and the context and the features that they're in. It's the gathering of all that together, the documenting all that that really helps us learn about what life was like. You know, what the everyday railroad worker had to deal with on a day-to-day basis. um things that aren't in the history books. Uh a lot of folks archaeologists study um are people that aren't documented in history. Um they might people be people, they're not the great people of history, the rich and the famous or the literate. They might be um children. They might be women. They might be people that didn't know how to write. They might be people whose everyday lives weren't of interest to most historians at that time period. So that's why it's so important to do archaeology and to document the what's in the ground really to figure out every single thing we can about the people who use use the area and use the site. And that's what we hope to do out here. We hope to accomplish that um as best as we can and the time constraints that we have. Well, a lot of people ask what happens uh to to this stuff when you're finished and that's a really important question. What's going to happen in this case is as in the case of every project we've done, we take the artifacts back to the laboratory and all of the notes and the photographs and the in the maps we've made, we take them back, we wash all the artifacts, we um put them into a big computer database and then we start asking questions well from the artifacts from the data um that we have. And then once we get all the the answers to those questions, we write up a report. We document everything we've done and what we found and what we think it means into

a report. And a lot of times these reports are kind of boring because they're real technical and they because we have to document every single thing for the future. But um but also a lot of times we'll write what we call popular reports, reports that are geared to the public and that are interesting, exciting, and really get across the information that we uncovered.