Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

I would like to call to order the planning commission meeting August 21st, 2025. Can I get roll call, please? Yes. here. Here

thank you. Uh, next let's stand for the pledge of allegiance. Algiance to the flag of the United States of America. Stands One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty. Yeah, I thought some of you guys were going to Next, we move to the approval of the agenda. Do I have hear a motion? I'll second. Got a second. All in favor? I I

Any opposed? Agenda passes. Next, we have the uh approval of the meeting minutes from July 17th, 2025. Uh assume some people have read them or been read. And do I have a motion for approval? Uh Mr. Ruger, if I may, I I do have a correction. Sure. Very important. Uh, my name is Steve Buger, not the Wendy Steve Buger. Oh, I'd like that corrected, please. Okay, we'll get that corrected.

Thank you for for Yeah, it would have been bad if it went for continuous times throughout the year, you know. Okay, after that correction, do I hear a motion for approval? I so move. Second. All in favor? I I Any opposed? Motion carries. Next up is on the consent agenda. There's two cases. Case 25-51000 and case 24-5330. Do I have a motion for approval? Motion to approve both um cases on the consent calendar, consent agenda. I have a second.

I'll second. Uh, all in favor? I I I opposed. [Music] Motion carries. Next up, an miscellaneous agenda. This is case 25-5010. U, this is the approval of the order. And so, do I have a motion for approval of the order? Okay, I'll motion to approve the order. Second. All in favor? I I.

Any opposed? Motion carries. So, next up uh is new business. And so, we have case 25-5020, Thomas Siamek and Christina Mesta Syme conditional use permit. And so, uh, I guess if the applicants are here, uh, if you can please come forward and present. Is that No, the staff.

Oh, staff. I'm sorry. Sorry. My apologies. Good afternoon. Can you hear me? Good. Good afternoon, Mr. Chair, commission members. Um, Thomas Simick, applicant is requesting approval of a commission use conditional use permit to allow the use of a retreat. The site is zoned traditional community. Appendix B use matrix illustrates that a retreat is a conditional use permit within the traditional community zoning district. The 3.45 acre parcel is located at 7687 Old Santa Fe Trail within section 22 Township 16 North Range 16 um excuse me 10 East Commission District 4. The applicant and his wife, Christina Simick, is requesting the use of a retreat for memorial celebrations of life, weddings, and transitional ceremonies celebrating the well-being following chronic illnesses, etc. This existing site consists of an existing residence, existing access existing accessory dwelling unit, accessory structures, and outdoor kitchen. The subject property is located at 768687 Santa Fe Trail within the v vicinity of Canada de los Alamos and consists of

3.545 acres. The property is also within the traditional community uh zoning district of Santa Fe County. The applicant states, "It is our hope to explore the possibilities of utilizing our land as an outdoor small event gathering space for memorial celebrations of life, wedding ceremonies, transitional ceremonies, and ceremonies celebrating well-being following chronic illnesses. Gatherings are 20 or less. We will limit these gatherings um to 50 attendees. It will be alcohol-f free and hours will be from 8 to about 10:00 p.m. Um, applicant states, "I was born and raised in New Mexico and proud native New Mexican. Specializes in end of life ministry work, ministering to the dying and their families. The offerings take place during the death and dying process, as well as supporting families and communities following the death of a loved one, assisting families in celebrating life's greatest joys and deepest griefs through support and ceremony. For many years, Christina's work has taken place in various locations such as private homes, funeral homes, event spaces with the majority of my ceremonies in outdoor settings. Building and Development Services staff has reviewed this project for compliance with pertinent L pertinent LC LSL, excuse me, SLDC requirements and has found that the facts presented support the request for a conditional use permit to utilize their land for the retreats. The use is compatible with the current development within the affected zoning district. The use will not impact

adjacent land and the application satisfies the submittal requirements set forth in the SLDC inclusive of the conditional use criteria set forth in chapter 4 section 4.9.6.5. Hearing officer heard this case on May 8th, 2025. At the hearing, 15 people spoke of the case and two people spoke um against the case. The objections to the case are related to the noise traffic, change of landscape of the and the use of the land and water affecting neighbors neighboring residences. The review comment have not been received by the state historic preservation office and county staff have established findings that this application to utilize their land for retreats. SLDC chapter 8 appendix B and required design standards set forward in the SLDC staff recommends approval of a conditional use permit to allow and utilize their land for retreat subject to the following conditions. The plan if the planning commission if the planning commission grants approval this conditional use permit staff recommends the following conditions. Number one, the conditional use permit showing the site layout and many any other conditions that may impose through the approval process shall be recorded at the expense of the applicants in the office of the county clerks in acceptance with chapter 4 section 4.9.6.8. Number two, applicant to provide a detailed lighting plan prior to the recordation of the CUP or conditional use permit. Number three, the applicant shall obtain a Santa Fe County business license. Number four, the applicant has

to comply with all staff and review agencies comments and conditions. Number five, the access to the site shall meet standards of chapter 7.11 of the SLDC. The applicant shall submit a detailed lighting plan which meets the requirement of chapter 7.8 lighting of the SLDC. Capacity should not exceed a maximum of 20 people per event. The applicant shall submit a site threshold analysis. Number nine, no off-site street parking will be allowed. Uh overflow parking must be provided at owners um adjacent lot. Um we had uh fire comments this afternoon. Uh so we added an extra staff has added an extra condition to the conditions um which says the applicant shall obtain a Santa Fe County special use permit for each event proposed on the property. Each permit shall be approved prior to the occurrence of the event and all events shall comply with apply applicable county regulations, the conditions of the special use permit and the conditions of the conditional use permit approval. Um members of the commission, um may I enter these conditions into the record?

You sure may. This report has the exhibits listed below and are hereby submitted as part of the um hearing record. Mr. Chair, commission um members, at this time I stand for questions.

Thank you, Mr. Ree, for presenting that. Commissioners are less later on. It says that it'll be limited to 20. So, what how many per year and how many attendees is this limited to? Uh, Commissioner Member Pearart, um, it is 20 people per attendance. 20 or less.

Okay. Because it says 50, we'll limit these gatherings to 50 attendees. So maybe the 20 was later. So then, but we don't know how many events per year. Vice Chair Trillo, um, Commissioner Bard. So, uh, based on the recommendation from the hearing officer, um, it was staff's recommendation to add that condition in there. So there'll be just a maximum of 20. The 20 to 50 range was from the applicant's initial proposal, but the condition is um going to be a requirement that we put into that. Um the applicant is here and would know more about how many uh events roughly they would be able to hold a year.

We have any other questions from commissioners? Mr. Buger.

Thank you, Chair Trio. So David, so just looking at the the report there, there was a March 18th, 2025, there was a letter from state engineers office that expressed concerns that water use from the proposed project would exceed 0.25 acre feet that was allowable. And then um on February 19th was a memo from the environment department that stated upon initial review we can't recommend approval. And he cited concerns for Airbnb and uh the the load from the event. But both entities they later they they changed their position and then approved the project. My question to you is what changed? Why did

why did they reverse? Commissioner Commissioner Krueer um Krueger's the commission. Um since then they they said they're not going to use the ADU as an Airbnb anymore and they will provide uh portaotties for the events. Um that's with the NMED uh notes and with uh office of the office of the state engineers they change the use of the well from residential to commercial

and I and I presume that the uh that the load the number of attendees guests from event that was a factor too I guess where yeah I was confused as well that there'd be up to 50 attendees these but then um now no more than 20. Um so that may have been part of the change. Mr. Burgerer? Yes, that's correct. Their proposal was no more than 20 but up to 50 and our condition is uh no more than 20.

Okay. So just following up on that point um your condition is reads that it should not be more than 20 guests. Is that a hope it's not more than 20 guests or is that will not be more than that would be a max capacity? That's a will.

Yes. Um last question on this issue. How do you enforce that um will the uh how do you enforce that they have how do you enforce that they have 20 versus 40? How do you enforce that there are portaotties? How do you how do you enforce any of it? And if there is a problem that arises then once approval is granted uh there's nothing that you can do or um what happens if a condition that is agreed to is not met.

Vice Chair Trillo, planning commission members. So the applicant will be bound by these conditions. These conditions will be placed on the cup site development plan which then gets filed and recorded in the clerk's office. They're going to be bound by these conditions. Um if it is ever reported that any more more than 20 people are attending these events, um code enforcement will be notified and they will go out and issue violations um that they are in violation of their approval. And so there are mitigation member u you know measure measures that staff will take um you know if there are any uh conditions that are broken.

Thank you. I have other questions but I'll I'll wait. Is are there other questions for staff or you want to wait till the presentation? Uh Commissioner Pava.

Thank you Mr. uh acting chair. Uh appreciate that. Uh my question when I look at this is does staff have knowledge of similar kinds of conditional use permits in this zone in the vicinity say in the notification area or or or or a slightly larger area than that similar kind of a conditional use for retreat. Um can you can you give us any kind of a an idea? There was reference, I think, in some of the documentation to to a request for a conditional use permit being denied. I think it was in the opposition's uh uh submitts, can you elaborate at all?

Uh vice chair, uh commission members, um I have not done any research on on the existence of other CUPS in the area. The staff would have to do a research on that. Mr. Chair uh planning commission member Pava, could you repeat the question?

What similar uses which require a conditional use permit such as this retreat which is conditional in the traditional communities zone in the vicinity? the vicinity being say a half a mile uh or or so uh is staff does staff have knowledge of of being approved uh I don't know in in in the last few years I'll I'll leave that vague vice chair Trillo planning commission member Pava so to my recollection there has been no current uh conditional use permits issued um that'd be something that we would have to research a little bit further But in my recollection, there has been nothing approved um or even proposed within the last few years in this area.

Oh, thank you. When I read through the 18 pages of appendix B on the back of our zoning ordinance, u it appears that there are literally dozens of conditional use possibilities in in this zone because this is a zone that's traditional and cultural and it varies from place to place in in the county obviously. So I think um I would say that staff has looked at the context and intensity of this particular proposal and it would seem to be appropriate based on uh what the report uh documents as does the zoning hearing examiner's uh findings. So that's all I have to say. Thank you.

Commissioners, Mr. Ruger you any you go ahead thank you chair I didn't want to foreclose any questions everybody will have their chair

so u traffic is a concern the neighbors this proposal uh question is um why wasn't a traffic impact analysis required Vice Chair, Commissioner Buger. So, the traffic impact analysis was a condition based off of concerns from um neighboring properties. The that was that was requested um by the applicant. they had contacted the Santa Fe County Roads Division um and they provided a statement that no TIA uh was necessary.

Thank you. uh with uh with the proposed project, noise may be a concern. And I I noted that the applicant did a um uh did a noise assessment based on some music uh and that it was under the 55 dB. Uh that was one limit uh per code. I think the other limit is uh uh no more than five dB over the ambient noise level which I presume is low in the neighborhood. The uh uh question is did did you get a chance to take a look at the uh the noise uh study or what? I would presume that different events u would require different music and it' be part of your presentation but um music would vary, noise would vary. Um were you able to look at the noise study that was done? Vice Chair Thrujillo, commission members, Commissioner um Buger, I have not been able to take a look at that um study yet.

Commissioner Buger, maybe that'll be when after we hear the presentation, maybe it'll be a question for It's probably hard for them to and I will I will save some other questions. Thank you. Okay, commissioners. Any other commissioners? Um uh what does it mean when he has a sh a shared well agreement with himself? Um by sharo commission members um I believe they share the well with the adjacent property which they own as well.

I Correct. Vice chair uh commission members. I believe that's correct. Commissioners, any other questions for staff? Okay.

Um I do have just one. Sorry. Um, I was looking at the development report response to the CU criteria and uh just had a question concerning parking and loading requirements and road and design standards because I noticed here that you know there's uh indication here that there's going to be 20 parking size designated uh one handicap parking as well and stuff and some requirements as far as 4in base course and so on and so forth. Uh but I don't recall seeing that as far as any of the conditions um noted in here. So I was just curious is that something that is going to be required to make sure that they essentially meet some of these u design standards that are

uh yes vice chair Trillo um commission member lru Crawford. So, Santa Fe County Fire um with the addition additional condition of the uh special use permits that will be required for every event. Uh Santa Fe County Fire will go and do inspections. Um during those inspections, if they see that there's any issues with road or access or anything, that'll they'll bring that to the attention of the applicant at that time. If they're required to do any upgrades at that time, they will be required to submit a development permit um for approval.

Gotcha. Thank you. And that actually was something I didn't quite understand. I think uh staff mentioned something at the end there that there would be some sort of um um correct me here if I'm wrong of some sort of application that every time they have an event they would need to submit something to the county identifying that there that an event will occur. Is that correct?

Yes. Vice Chair Trillo Pine Commission member de la Cruz Crawford or La Cruz Crawford. Sorry about that. Um so yes, in conversation with fire marshal BL this afternoon um they expressed their concern that these events could happen um since they are providing canopies that these events could happen and they would have no knowledge of these you know structures being erected and inspected. So, they wanted to ensure that we require a special use permit application be um applied for at every time if there's an occurrence for an event um prior to the event so that they have the ability to go out and inspect these structures um as well as any other conditions of the the property for these events.

That's a good call. And uh I notice in the site plan it at least shows two canopies on here and stuff. Is there any sort of limitation as far as the amount of canopies or non-permanent structures that they can put up during these events?

So, as far as um the temporary structures, if they're specifically just for this event, um you know, what they've identified on their site development plan for the conditional use permit, they'll be bound to that. um if they want to add any additional canopies or tents, they will need to um you know, they that could be actually a minor amendment if it's 5% or less of intensity. So, we could do that through a minor amendment through the land use administrator. Anything more than 5% um would require a conditional use permit to come back through the process. Gotcha. Thank you. Okay, I I think we can move on to the applicants now. Thank you, staff. Thank you, Mr. Ree.

Vice Chair Trio, uh, commission members, I do want to mention that after the exhibits were posted on Friday, we did receive more um, comments in opposition and support. And so, I'm going to hand out those packets now.

Okay, great. So, I can I can I get the applicants to come forward? Whoever is going to present, and I think they're going to need to have you sworn in here. So, Christina Mesta Simick 7687 Old Santa Fe Trail. [Music] Okay. Well, thank you for coming this evening. Uh just make sure when you speak up that you're into the mic so that we can hear you. This room doesn't have the best acoustics here, but

please go ahead and start.

Okay. Um, first off, I just wanted to make note for myself. Um, the artwork here is, um, deeply meaningful to me. I've been in this process several times now and um it basically is telling my story and I'm going to elaborate on it a bit. I I'm from artists and storytellers and healers and so it hasn't escaped me that this beautiful mural is here. Hello everybody. My name is Christina Mesta Simic. I am native New Mexican from the meestases, Montanos, Delgato, and Rometo who are founding members of Rontos, Satouse, Las Vegas, and Santa Fe. My background is indigenous, Hispanic, and European. My indigenous ancestral roots predate the founding of New Mexico. As a child, my happiest memories were under a pinon tree sitting and picking pion or being out in Trestos by the river with my grandparents. Being outside in nature with people I trusted is where I felt most myself, safest and at home. As an adult, I trained to become a professional death doula. I supported others through the process of death and dying. Over the years, I saw how much people feared death and needed support of trusted friends, family, and caregivers. During my work as a doula, I had countless chances to observe that death is a shared family and community experience. I then started to create small gatherings of those caring for loved ones through the process of death and dying, especially to support one another. I saw in these gatherings how healing it was for each f person involved.

These shared experience in nature brought calm to the caregivers and in particular to the to those that were in the death and dying experience. When I was growing up in New Mexico, it was common to share our lives, belonging, cooking, and skills with each other. Over time, relationships of trust were formed and they happened naturally. In my personal history and ancestral lineage, there were other individuals known as kurandettas who were chosen to assist and support others in the community through life transitions. They did this with the use of nature's remedies, learned wisdom, and crafting ceremonies. The role was also in my personal ancestry. Many years back, I was also trained as a professional celebrant who crafts and officiate ceremonies for life events. These ceremonies focus on individuals personal stories, beliefs, and values. As a re result, they offer deeper emotional connection and healing. Weddings are significant times for communal celebrations. Again, I observed that the quality and the depth of these special moments were amplified, especially out in nature. Beyond my ancestral background and training, science has also affirmed that like all living things, we are made up of the same elements of the earth and all matter. In our present fast-paced technology world, we have become accustomed to relating rapidly. While there is great value in technologies, the pacing has disconnected us from our

human nature in our own natural rhythms. Honoring a death has become honoring for an hour-long ceremony. Three days to mourn and then we just simply move on. The consequences of not making time for grief is that we often bury parts of ourselves and become less vital and disconnected from others and from our own nature and perhaps even our own neighbors. I have I have if we cannot feel sadness, we also are less open for the capacity to feel joy. My own lived experience has shown me the great value of intimate gatherings out in nature. This is where we can be vulnerable and express ourselves and our emo emotions. They are vital to our well-being. My intention to do this work on our property involves my heartfelt desire to share the gift of having this on this land. This land is where I feel most at home. Where we have raised our children. Where I share stories with my grandchildren of ancestral w rhythm, wisdom, playing with them. As a grandparent and an elder, it is my responsibility to model for them the importance of connecting with others, honoring our natural environment, and sharing the gifts of knowledge while bringing comfort and healing to others. For anyone who knows me and my life partner Tom and our family are we are committed and respectful members of our beloved Kinyatta de los Alamos. We care deeply about the well-being of our community and our neighbors. We also

want to contribute in a meaningful way to the well-being of our world. To the best of our understanding, we are fully in align with the appropriate codes and regulations within our rights to create a small event space. In times like these when we are living with stress, conflict, cruelty, and loss on every level, we need ceremonies for grief and for celebrating now more than ever. My greatest hope in this fast changing world is that what I hand over to my grandchildren someday will express my deepest honoring of life and the earth. and what I am a part of and is a part of me. My request is simple. I am requesting to do the work I was born to do on a land that I was born to do it upon. I am at the end point of the famed old Santa Fe Trail or the city of holy faith where it meets the end of the Sra de Cristo mountains and that's the blood of Christ mountains. I literally live on sacred earth. I am asking for the same thing that is already approved of on larger scales on both sides of me with Campstone, Bishop Camp Stony and the Amma Ashram. Why I am doing this is because I have been privileged to sit with and learn from countless teachers of death and dying as they were going through their own deaths. The most important lesson that I was shared with me is that we only have this moment. This issue can be dragged on forever

over traffic, potential fires, or wrong postings. The reality is that our people and our planet are suffering. The grief is already in our neighborhood and all we have to do is notice some of the homeless that have made their way into our beloved Kenyatta and to drive into Santa Fe. Whether or not we would like to admit it, we see grief all around us in the faces of our displaced and our griefstricken community. Considering we only have this moment, what if I have been called upon to do this work in this moment to shepherd people through their most difficult moments when they are in their deepest of grief, the type of grief where you have lost your own ability to feel home? What if I am called upon to share my home out in nature for the purpose of supporting one heart at a time? while at the same time sensing the importance of nature in our lives. What if beyond all of these delays and technicalities that what you are being asked today is to support something that is very very important to us all. Thank you. Thank you, Miss Esta CC.

Well, I handled the technical stuff. Okay, we're waiting. Uh, one thing I met, uh, we've been at this, we started this project back in May of 2024. So, we've been at it for 15 months. No, trying to get things. Make sure and speak into the mic so we can I'm sorry. There you go.

We've been at it for 15 months. Um, so I met with fire at the property um to make sure I had a good turnaround for emergency vehicles and parking didn't interfere with it. The county requested that I have 20 parking spaces, which I do. It's indicated on the site plan in exhibit B. and county came, you know, a fire came up and and said that I had plenty of room for emergency vehicles. Uh, with 20 attendees, I can't see us hitting 20 with 20 vehicles, but uh but nonetheless, they wanted me to have parking just in case, one person for per vehicle. I uh was brought up uh water and also liquid waste for 20 people. We use the existing uh bathrooms in the house and that was shared with everyone. If I was going to hit if we were going to do over 50, if we were going to have over 20, then we were going to bring in portaotties. We have no need. I worked with environmental department on how many guests we would have with 20 guests in exhibit A under water and wastewater. I have the water use calculated. This initial the septic system that I put in back in the end of 2006 and 2007 is designed flow of 525 gallons per day. So it's enough to handle 20 guests. And if you can see the water use I have

it broke down that will easily stay annually under a quarter acre foot. I met with the state engineer department and I went ahead and installed a water meter and sent them the picture of it and the serial number and I every 3 months I send them uh I go go online and I record the reading. Um there was uh the the traffic if you look at we're we don't know how many events are going to happen. We don't want any more than four a month. And it'll since it's outdoor events, it'll only happen in nice weather, which was probably from the middle of May to possibly the middle of October maybe. So you're looking at maybe five months, six months at the max. So if we average say for instance we had every every weekend we had an event. It's a lot of work so we wouldn't you know it's not going to happen but uh and we average say 10 vehicles per event from public works. I got a traffic count made two years ago about a half a mile west of our property. It averages 1,020 per day. 10 vehicles, what? Less than 1%. And if it's averaged over a month, you're looking at

13 hundreds of a percent. So traffic isn't going to be an issue. If there's uh if there's anything else you would like to ask me, if you have questions about, go ahead and I think I can find something in here that I wrote down. Sure. You're Yeah, you're it's your turn to pre present and then the commission will have questions for both of you. Okay. Okay. So, just conclude whenever you're done, just let us know.

Okay. I I think I have it. And as far as uh mentioned about uh lighting for the parking spaces, I have that indicated on the site plan exhibit B also.

Okay. Thank Thank you for that presentation. Uh commission, do either anybody here have questions for Mr. or Mrs. Syc Mr. Pava? Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you for your uh presentation. My only question is there's reference to a guest rental on your property. Is there currently a guest rental uh on on the property that you use for the in the nature of an Airbnb or or some some such uh thing?

No, we don't. We initially had that on the application, but we went ahead and took it off. Uh, and uh, [Music] it would would have been an issue with fire. I would have had to put a sprinkler system in there. And so, we just took all that out. So, it's not a guest rental. It is for family if they come and visit, but no. It's not an Airbnb. Okay. So, what what what I'm hearing is that there is no guest rental for profit on the property. There maybe uh accommodations for family visitors like that.

Correct. Okay. Thank you. Hi. Uh thanks for your presentations. This is um interesting. Um so you're saying the amount of events you would have would be less than four per month

probably. So um the reason being that any ceremonies that I do I spend a lot of time with my families and I don't have the energy to do more than that. So what it's about is being of service not to have mass amounts of events happening. I to be perfectly honest I don't have the time and I wouldn't be able to be as attentive as I am. And and when you have an event, um how many workers are involved like crew or you know caterers or so far we haven't had any events there. Um we've had family events.

Um so what what you're talking about so far has been family and friends. Um a lot of times it also involves family members. um the events that I do elsewhere, I try to get in family involved as much as I possibly can, especially where grief is concerned because it gives them an opportunity to do something and feel like they're all participating. Okay. So, I c I can't really answer that for there. Okay. Um and um you you so you haven't had events at the property other than family?

We've had we've had family gatherings. Yes. And we have had events for family. I've had a memorial for my mom's dear friend whose husband died in an untimely way. I've had family events there. Yes, I have. Okay. And our our daughter's wedding was many years ago. Um, and that's another part that I'm going to be very confused about is now with this happening. Um, it's going to make it difficult for us to have family events feeling like we're doing something incorrectly. And the reason we're going through this is we wanted to make sure that everything was legal.

I I I I would expect that we could have done it another way, but what we're trying to do is make sure that everything is in order. Okay. Well, thank you for that. Um, and do you have live music at these events?

Um, I I have had um music at our daughters. We had music. Um, and um some of the events that I've had um there's a guitarist. Um had wooden flute. Actually, that's my preference. I like to keep things quiet and I like to utilize the silence because that's also very medicinal. So, are we going to have um hard rock and head banging out there? That's not what I'm about. Okay. And when you've had these larger family events, have you received any complaints about noise or anything from those? Uh not anything other than what was in in the files. Okay. Great. Thank you. Yes.

Thank you, Miss Commissioner Perard. Do we have Commissioner Buger?

Thank you, Chair Trio. loved your presentation. Uh I think it's great. The the questions I have are more more technical or programmatic in nature because this what you're proposing is is not a permitted use in traditional community zoning. Better or worse, it is not it is not a prohibited use. It is a conditional use permit and um certain criteria have to be met in order to grant the permit and that's why we're here. So um the the limit of 20 um attendees seems to be you know it's it's an important limit now and you didn't from what I read in the reports you didn't start out at that point but you got to that point. So question for you is how do you how will you market to prospective um clients that this is a limit and uh you mentioned that there be no alcohol. Um how uh will you market that so that uh uh enforcement is a concern um that people aren't put in the position of having to enforce something which was promised to never happen.

That will be when she works with her clients. You would have to let them know they choose to have an event at our place and would happen.

And I'm realizing this is not um this is not a big money-making event. If I was doing that, I wouldn't be doing small events. And we kept um we're we're again we're we're trying to work within what is asked and required of us, including being good neighbors. The reason it was so confusing relative to Airbnb is because that was one of the first things we proposed. I met with one of the neighbors and what I heard was that was a huge concern. So we changed that and pulled that off. Um when I heard the next thing was to have bigger gatherings, we we just started decreasing them because I want to be um neighborly and I want to be accommodating and um small events are what I do anyway. How would I be marketing them? It's a niche and it's not going to be for everybody any more than my weddings. I I interview extensively and I'm not for everybody and they're not for me. Um, so it's it's going to be relative to small intimate events and having that clearly expressed. The element about no alcohol, no drugs and so forth is because a lot of people that I'm dealing with, that's exactly how their family member has been lost. And so I am not going to support that. And this is this is something that I want to do that's different because there's many events that I've done where people that are going through AA or dry or sober, there isn't any place for them to go. So I realize it's not going to be for everybody and it's small, but that's what I like doing. So it would be fair to assume then that if this were approved um that this limitation would find its way on your website uh where you market the events.

That would be how it's marketed. And again I I have no idea. It may not go. I'm just feeling like it's something that may be necessary because of what I'm called upon to do when I when I've had to go other places as well. U if I may uh u why uh in your application you have uh the hours of operation would be from 8:00 a.m. to 1000 p.m. Why such a wide window?

It was it was just basically trying to figure out what what we would what we would offer. I don't really want them that late and I don't really want them that early. But what I'm imagining, I'm also a creative artist and I could imagine people wanting to come in early and do decorating or whatever it is and allowing them to have the time and space to do that. The other thing that's that's greatly important when I'm working in with families, especially families in grief, I want to give them time and space for relating to one another. So I was giving this this broad range which we may or may not use

last uh question for me. So if you have night events after dark um and I guess you would correct if I understand you correctly now if the events that I've helped Christina with um last as little as two hours

and often we're having them there there's a spiritual reason I do this. We're having them at sunset. So sometimes we are having an event there. There'll be a social gathering after and then everybody goes home. So you know I I I can't plan for every possible thing but I was just thinking of a broad range to be able to offer.

So if you have events at night you will have to light them. And I guess the uh how you light them would be part of the lighting plan that uh uh you will come up with. But if uh haven't seen a lighting plan, so you could shed some light on how you illuminate your event but not disturb neighborhood. you came and visited our place, you would see

if you came to our place, you would see we live on, you know, our total acreage is 5 acres and it's really hard to see the lighting. You know, we've got big ponderosa, big pinon all around us. So yeah, I uh I can't see us disturbing anybody with lighting. And and as far as noise, I think when we have our grandkids over, they make more noise than what we would be making. So,

thank you, Commissioner Buger. Uh any other commissioners questions for the applicants? Um, yeah, appreciate it.

Commissioner Lac Cruz Crawford, thank you. I appreciate both of your presentations and, you know, the work that you're doing and also the fact that it seems like you've been diligent in trying to make sure that you're meeting all the requirements, etc., you know. Um, so I appreciate that as well. And I'll go back to the 20. My question I guess for you is really as far as that 20 because it seems you know obviously you had wanted to have larger gatherings or at least the possibility to have larger gatherings right and now you're trying to you know kind of bringing it down to 20 to have smaller gatherings or whatnot. Is that really um I guess is there any concern on your end with respect to that? Because I'm also thinking it's like and this is maybe more of a staff question, but it's like is that 20 strictly guests or like uh the commissioner mentioned here uh you know as far as like if you're going to have staff etc. you know what is that right? It's like uh is that strictly 20 guests and not staff and yourself included in that? Um cuz I can see like if you're having a retreat etc and stuff it's like um keeping it small more intimate like you want to do great but then there might be the occasional time where you might want to have a larger gathering for whatever reason uh family reason or whatever is happening you know so I guess my question to you is just yeah is that really limiting to you guys as far as that 20 guess requirement that that they're putting in or that staff is recommending

to be perfectly honest it's very limiting but I'm going to do what I can to work within that because it matters. Um, a lot again, a lot of the gatherings that I do, some of the weddings that I do, I have couples coming in and they want to have an intimate wedding. They're older couples and they've gone through a lot to find one another and they show up, just the two of them with witnesses. So, we're not talking about pushing every event to 20. It may just be four to six people. I I don't know. And uh I guess my other question would be what kind of relationship do you have with your neighbors, immediate neighbors, etc. Is that a fairly good relationship you currently have? Because obviously, you know, like you said, you have your own family gatherings. I know I have gatherings in my house and they far exceed 20 people, you know. So it's like

we do we we we um we didn't have any difficulties with the neighbors before our request. Um none. So, um, and and I get that we all have our own opinions and our own decisions, and I value that. That's the work that I do. Um, I'm I'm just not having Rook Rouse's events. That's not what I do, and that's not how I do things. Um so no um we were not we were not perpetually having people called um to come and attend to all of our noisiness. That never happened and we never heard from our neighbors for anything otherwise. So I'm I'm just answering your question.

Thank you. I appreciate it. I think the only other question I have is kind of similar to that is like anything else in the staff recommendations that you personally are concerned about I guess as far as you know how that limits your use of this of your property.

Yes. What one of the things I was hearing was um I think that I heard because there was a lot of words you know shared um about having to get a permit every time we have an event. Is that correct? Go ahead, vice commission members. Um, yes, that is correct. Um, a concern came from the Santa Fe County Fire Department earlier this afternoon that they wouldn't be able to inspect these structures that are erected um during every time that there's an event. And so they wanted to ensure that they are able to inspect these structures um, you know, with the a good amount of time. And so therefore we are requiring that a special use permit um would be submitted um every time that there is an event

when we have the structures up. Is that correct? Because that's what you shared with me initially was if we were putting up the canopy structures then we would need to bring fire out. Is that correct? Yes, that'll be correct. Okay.

So let me let me interrupt here. So just so I understand here the if they put up a canopy. So what is the definition of a canopy that would require fire approval? So the canopy is a temporary structure. Um but there are you know fire code requirements that they need to inspect these structures to make sure that they're you know um erected correctly. You know that they're properly you know standing and secure and that there's no you know cause for any type of injury or anything to go forward. And so for a special use permit, typically fire does these inspections even for let's say if there's a stage erected for a concert, they'll want to inspect that stage and make sure that there are no issues with that stage um to ensure that there's no injuries.

So if I understand you correct, the the canopy wouldn't be for parking. It would be for holding people underneath it for some event. Is that correct? That is correct. Okay. I'll let the applicant speak up. Yes. And we would only do the canopy if it's requested by the people that are having the event. And uh

the other thing that um when when we were first trying to get everything together, um I was also guided to to to uh give information about the canopies that we'd be getting, where we'd be getting them from. And so I went down to Santa Fe Party Rentals. I talked to them about it. I talked to them about being legal and and so my understanding was in submitting all of that as long as we kept going through that particular place that has these type of canopies that we were fine. So um this is something that you know was a surprise. So, um, but I guess, um, like like Tom said, um, we may not have anybody, um, requesting a canopy, but I guess we'd have to go through that if that's what's being required. So, so st this question for staff. So, if if they aren't if somebody doesn't have a request to erect a canopy or a tent, so to speak, then there wouldn't be required under the current the way the fire department is currently stated this condition, this condition on this permit if approved. Vice Chair, that is correct. But one of the concerns that was brought to me by fire marshall Bllee was that what happens in the event of inclement weather um and there's a you know what happens then are these people then going to be rushed into the home and so his concern is if that's the case you know then then this this use is totally different you know then the structure the residence would need to be sprinkled and considered as a a commercial structure. Um so the way he kind of interpreted it was that if there is an event more than likely those tents are going to be up because if you know something happens if there's rainfall um you know which you know can happen within 15 to 20 minutes as you know as a resident of Santa Fe anytime that where do these people go for shelter um and so he's looking at as that structure will

more than likely be erected for every event in case that happens. So, uh, one other question before I let you continue for for staff. Thank you, Mr. Candos. I guess my question would be is if a family is hosting a birthday party and they call Santa Fe Party Center to erect a tent to have for a for a kid's birthday party, are those people obligated under current code to go to go get a uh permit with the county to erect that tent for the birthday party? Vice Chair, no. That would not be considered a commercial use.

Okay. Thank you. I I just want a clarification. So every time they have an event, they are going to have to come and get a permit on based on the conditional use permit if this goes through. So uh commission commissioner if you know the there's these conditions put on this permit. I mean we as a commission can decide whether they need to be on there or not if it's approved or whether this even gets approved. But these are just what the recommendations are as. Okay. Thanks. Just to follow follow up with that because um

who's Crawford? Thank you. Yeah. So for with you say that name you know. Hey uh so with yeah following up with that you know a company that actually provides tent structures etc. Right. Uh that was going to be my question as well is you know are they the ones that would be responsible to pulling the the the special use permit. Um and I know you mentioned it's it's different because it's only in a commercial application, but how does a company like that know whether or not they should do it or is it the applicant that is responsible for ensuring that a special use permit is actually pulled correctly?

It would be up to the property owner and the applicant. Okay. Have any other questions from any other commissioners? Uh I have just a couple of questions. Um so well one of them the first one actually is is for staff is in in this process of having to go get a permit each time that this is they're going to use this venue. What is the turnaround time at the county for this? Is this a day thing that you walk in and you walk out the same day or do do you got to send out inspectors or how does this actually work?

So, typically a special use permit is routed to Santa Fe County Fire Department. We also route it to the the sheriff's office as well. Um, for this specific use and event, um, Santa Fe County Fire is the department division that is expressing their concern and want to make sure that they're involved with with their inspections. Um it may not be poss um you know required to get any kind of notice initially to the sheriff's office. Um you know for 20 people um maximum capacity we may not need to send that to the sheriff's office but we would confer with them to see if it's something that they would want to see. So

so we're looking about a week just so we can get responses back. Okay. I guess I guess the the running this through my head and the issue that I have is that you know you you plan for an event and and there is deadlines and you know you make commitments and you know if a permit doesn't come through it it creates huge problems. Um especially if it would be the applicants here uh so I've just so so you're saying it's basically takes about a week's time and and how accurate is that? Is that is that something I know I can't really hold you to that but over your experience is it pretty accurate in time

vice chair uh commission members it's pretty accurate. Um the only time it's really held up if there are any issues um you know regarding fire or regarding anything with the sheriff's office or security. Um, typically someone who's applying for a special use permit, they'll apply, you know, a month in advance, um, maybe even more than that to give us enough time to get a review done and issue them their special use permit. So, with the u enough notice that if we're given enough notice, we can turn those around fairly quickly and there's typically no issue with any holdup of any type of event. And so if there can can two different events be placed on the same thing if there's if there's one for a Friday and a Saturday could or does it have to be filed individually?

No. If they're doing like a three-day event or multi-day event, they could include that on one permit.

Okay. Thank you. So, thank you very much for your presentation. We may if we have any other questions, we may bring you back. So, so now we're going to move this to a public hearing. And I see quite a few people out there. And so I want to find out by a show of hands uh how many people are here in to speak in favor of this conditional use permit. Okay. And now I want to see how many people are here to speak opposed to it. Okay. And so I I did this a lot in the one of the past jobs I had. And so I know a lot of times this can get a little bit people have the same concerns. And so I'm going to ask that uh that people come up and if you express the same concern, you're very it's very short and succinct. If not, I'm going to stand start to put like a two-minute timer on people so that we don't hear the same same argument for 10 minutes each person because we could be here all the way to midnight tonight. And so, uh, I guess we'll start with, uh, maybe people in opposition first. And, uh, we'll I'm going to keep a look on time here. And if you can state what you need to state in 3 minutes or so, if unless it's really compelling, then we'll we'll move on to the next person. So, uh, I guess maybe form a line or the first person that raised their hand that's in opposition, please come and speak and you'll have to be sworn in. What? Let's do that. That's better.

Everybody please stand. Thank you. Uh please go ahead and state your name.

Okay. Uh uh thank you guys very much for uh letting me speak. My name is Martin Smith and my wife is with me, Donna Smith. I reside at 7689A Santa Fe Trail. Our 88.75 acres property is the immediate driveway east of the subject's property. My Santa Fe roots go way back to 1860 1856. my great greatgrandfather Benjamin Schuster and his uh sister Julia Schuster Stab families of the La Pasada fame. My mother was Moa Ortiz Smith, the daughter of Onfra Onfro and Guadalupe Ortiz of Chavis Place of Santa Fe. Uh my mother served in the in the Cathedral Basilica of St. Francis in the altercy for 55 years. My father was Frank B. Smith. He served as director of transportation for the state of New Mexico uh corporation commission for the state of New Mexico. uh seeking more quiet, my father moved our family from the 1978 from out of uh from from our in town home on Don Cubo to the current Santa Fe Trail of Rail Residents. Right out of Santa Fe High School, I was

drafted and served my country in in Vietnam. I became disabled and suffered from PTSD and am very sensitive to noise. Vice Chair, we have a minute left. Thank you. Please continue.

Okay. Uh Don and I added our names to the initial uh uh position from 25 neighbors who oppose the cup proposal under consideration. We wanted the hearing officer to know that the resulting immediate noise just next to our home from traffic and se and celebrations involving as many as 20 people each week will be uh des a serious threat to my mental health. I have Agent Orange and hepatitis C from my service in Vietnam. And I it would have killed me had I received a liver transplant 36 years ago. I'm 76, but my liver is 52.

Vice Chair, the time is up.

Okay. I'll give you 10 more seconds, sir, to finish up here. All right. Uh, it's important to my long physical recovery and bicycling overall. The years I built by the strength of the cycle by cycling of more than 30 miles came to an abrupt uh pause when a car driving too fast in our area of old Santa Fe Trail forced me off the road. My knee suffered a torn meniscus that required surgery and extensive rehabilitation. And that was a few months ago and as uh why Don and I were not able to hear in person at the main meeting.

I'm going to have to the time is expired, but what I do want to say is I thank you for coming and I'd want to say thank you for the service that you did for all of us. I'd like to ask a question to the Simics. Uh how large is their septic tank? So this this was they they will they will have to go you know this isn't the the time to ask them a question in this process they have to go to the environmental department and they have the records of the size and and and all the and when it's pumped because I smell their septic system from my house. Okay.

Okay. And and just to know our peaceful community is going to uh is going to be our peaceful and quiet community that is not appropriate location for a commercial event like this. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Who's next? We got three minutes. Okay. Name is Prada. I I have I have resided in I

sir. Go ahead and please state your name and your address. Florian Prada number 23 Prada. Pardon me.

Yes. I have resided my whole life in Kanyada Los Alamos at number 23A Prada. My father's families, the Prada and Martinez, have lived in Kanyada de los Alamos for many generations. My mother, Josephine Jimenez from Rion Medio, has resided in Kanya Los Alamos since the early 1970s. I have worked in the construction, renovation, and maintenance of homes since 1989. Fresh from high school, I went to work for Dave Burnbomb's company, Santa Fe Trailbuilders. One of the early places that I worked with one of his local crews was at Steve's Steve Feld's residence. I have worked regularly with Steve Feld in the 35 years since. In March of this year, I asked Steve if he knew what was going on with the yellow placard at the Simick residence. He explained that it announced an application for conditional use permit and said that the request was to allow Christina Simick's wedding funeral life celebrations business to hold events of up to 50 people at the home residence. My immediate reaction was to tell Steve that will be really hard on on my close friend Martin Smith who lives just next door. I explained that more noise and traffic so close to him would be would be harmful to Martin's health because because of his Vietnam war PTSD disability and I mentioned how upsetting it was to Martin when his driveway was blocked for a long period by by cars during cimic event during a cimic event. So out of concern for Martine's health, my mother and I signed the original

letter of concern from 25 neighbors to the county, the the one that Steve presented here in May before the hearing officer. Chair, there's less than a minute left.

In addition to my concern for Martin, I have two other things to say. The first is about the increase in numbers of people now coming out to Kanya de los Alamos for for access to forest hiking, bike trails, and camping through the through the businesses of fat tire and treehouse camp. More and more I experienced outsiders treating our community carelessly, leaving their junk, making their noise, speeding around our roads, disturbing our peace. We have had multiple visi v visits from Hondao fire department this summer because of dangerous behavior. It makes me feel that increasing the number of people who don't know our roads and are not part of our community will will surely lead to greater fire danger. The second thing here is about our road conditions. I drive Kanyada Village Road.

Just about 10 more seconds, sir. Okay. I'll um I'm sorry but you know just the concern you know of all the the people coming in I I do get it but we if 50 people speak and everybody speaks for 20 minutes I can say my last part thank you for for listening

thank you sir appreciate My name is David Burnbomb and I live at 7727 Old Santa Fe Trail and I'm under oath. Good afternoon and thank you commissioners and all. I've lived on a hillside less than a half mile from the SIMX for 46 years. I hope the information that is provided by the majority of the neighbors who overwhelmingly oppose this application will be enough to convince the commissioners today to vote to deny the cup. But if they don't, I would ask them to please postpone their decision until the applicants provide the traffic impact analysis which is clearly required in the sustainable land development code. The most important reason not to omit a traffic impact analysis is that the old Santa Fe Trail at that location is a dangerous bottleneck in an overloaded evacuation route, which is the only way out for at least 500 people in case of a wildfire evacuation. The 2020 census counted 421 residents just within the area recently recognized by the county as a traditional community and I'm sure there are at least 80 additional people who would evacuate on this route. That's where I get my 500 number. However, I have been unable to find anyone who can confirm the number of evacuees, but I had been told during a similar meeting at the commission

regarding the AMA Center in 2015 that as many as 1,000 people live in the network of roads that all come together where Kenyatta Village Way connects to the old Santa Fe Trail, less than a quarter of a mile east of the SimX driveway. I did speak with clerk Thomas of the Hondao VFD with Mr. BL and with Brad Call and the all three confirmed that the evacuation situation in this area is extremely dangerous because of the lack of an alternative access. Our narrow shoulderless road cannot be converted to a two-lane exit road because emergency vehicles will need to be entering simultaneously because of the increased likelihood of wildfire. We cannot afford to add any more vehicles.

30 seconds.

Okay. The the traffic impact analysis is important and necessary part of the process and is supposed to be submitted with the application for a cup. The only reason given by the county staff for exempting this TIA is the number of people at each event. But in fact, every additional vehicle could be intensifying the already dangerous situation and the difficulty of a quick and safe evacuation. Think of the freeways in large cities where the traffic slows to a crawl during rush hour. This application is not complete without a a traffic impact analysis which will confirm that this extraordinarily poorly designed and engineered road is not capable of handling any additional evacuation traffic. The commission should deny the application now or in the alternative insist that a TIA be carried out as required by the sustainable land development code. Thank you very much.

Thank you sir. Appreciate that. My name is Steven Feld. I reside at 7719 Old Santa Fe Trail and I am sworn in. Thank you. I'm here among 25 residents on more than 60 surrounding acres and we are telling you that we do not want the intrusive noise, traffic and fire safety hazard of a commercial weddings and funerals business that could fill our road up to 48 times a year with up to 50 people between the hours of 8 am and 10 p.m. We're asking you to require as is necessary all applications and this one to include a traffic impact analysis. Look, just this last Sunday, lightning caused a halfacre fire on Shaggy Peak at the very north of Kanya de los Alamos. Luckily, it was fully contained and no evacuations were necessary. But this serves as a clear reminder of why we all are insisting on vigilant attention to road conditions on a fire evacuation route. I've been driving this road for 43 years since the time when it was unpaved and nicknamed the old corduroy trail because it was totally washboard all the time. But many of the same draining issues persist even after paving. And with each rain, our road washes out in 20 places, several of them across both lanes. The county is aware of this and responds quickly and positively to our need by sending heavy equipment to clear these two miles of road with substandard drainage. We had a half inch of rain

last Friday night and the county was there for us Monday morning and we appreciate it. All the same, on Sunday evening at about 7 p.m., a car driving too fast toward town hit a pile of rock and dirt, skidded 360 degrees onto the dirt and side of the road. I passed by on my way home and got out and talked to three officers. County Sheriff vehicles were there attending to this in the wake of devastating wildfires here in New Mexico that have harmed so many people. up in Mora and so forth. Our insurance policies now cost about three times as much because we're surrounded by forest. We have one way in and out. We have road conditions with no is known issues.

30 seconds. And we have a history of road accidents. These traffic impacts, evacuation route conditions, and fire hazards are deeply linked in our community. So please, for the safety, health, and welfare of us, we ask that you either deny this application now or at the very least insist that it include a traffic impact analysis so we really know what's going on. Thank Thank you.

Thank you, Chair Trillo, members of the commission. My name is Joseph KS, 125 Lincoln Suite 221. I represent a group group of local residents standing tonight to request that you deny the application and not allow a precedent setting commercial event venue to be established in this community. The question before you is not whether the proposed use is appropriate for the is is whether the proposed use is appropriate for this particular location. There was talk earlier about other conditional use permits in Kenya de los Alamos. About a decade ago, I worked against the Amma Center event venue. That was a larger project that the county properly denied because of three primary reasons. The extreme fire hazard present in Kinyatta de los Alamos and surrounding area. The lack of a viable secondary emergency access route out of Kenya de los Alamos and the substandard road conditions that exist on the old Santa Fe Trail. Those same reasons exist here and regardless of the the relative size of the proposed use, they should stand and the same decision should be made to deny the application. Now, there was we've repeatedly there's a letter in your packet asking for a traffic impact analysis, which is required by your code. Table 71 requires a traffic impact analysis. The only reason I heard tonight why it wasn't carried out was that the project was too small. The SLDC directly addresses that. The code states in section 6.6.3, the TIA shall follow NMDOT state access manual requirements, which requires a general assessment for smaller impact projects which generate little traffic and a detailed analysis for those projects that generate larger traffic volumes. A small project is not a reason to study both the existing conditions and the conditions resulting from the project. In this case,

um the code for issuance of CUP requires that this commission find that the project will not be detrimental to the health, safety, and general welfare of the area or tend to create congestion in roads. I submit to you that the existing conditions don't meet these requirements and the proposed project will make them worse. Given the lack of traffic analysis, my clients went and hired Joe Burella, licensed traffic engineer who's been around here for a long time. He prepared a report. Unfortunately, given the timing, we got it last Friday. I submitted it last Friday with my letter and I think you just got it, but he submitted a stamped engineering report citing substandard conditions on Old Santa Fe Trail with respect to sight distance and the steep uphill scurves leading to the project site, sight triangles of the several residential driveways leading up to the site, road width, steep grades, drainage infrastructure, and lack of shoulders and steep drop offs on the south side.

30 seconds. Old Santa Fe Trail was developed as a wagon road, a slowpaced wagon road. It was paved in the late 90s in this area. What the paving did was sped up traffic. Sped up traffic, which Mr. Burella measured um and the average speeds are substantially higher than the posted speed limits. He said since no shoulders exist in both directions, this creates a hazard for vehicular traffic considering the measured speeds. There has been a complete absence of analysis of the existing conditions on this road which couldn't be built today. It was not designed. It was not engineered. It was built 150 or so years ago. And that is the problem here. We need analysis of the existing road. It is a problem. Mr. Verberella verified that and that should be a basis for you to require at minimum a TIA be prepared. And secondly, we request that you deny the application just as this county denied the ALMA center application. Thank you very much.

Thank you. Is there anybody else to speak in opposition? Okay, then we are going to move forward for those that are in favor. Uh I saw quite a few more other hands, so we'll still keep it at three minutes, but if it gets repetitive, we're going to reduce it down to two minutes. I was sworn in. This is very brief. Good afternoon. My name is Christine Montano Kerry. I'm here again in support of my daughter Christina's request for this conditional use permit. It wasn't until not too long ago that I fully witnessed what Christina does for so many at times in our lives that are the most difficult, stressful, and yes, lonely. Very often Christina steps in often without any compensation at all to hold the hands and walk the walk with those in most need of understanding and compassion. I have seen firsthand how all the training both medically incidentally she's also trained as a respiratory therapist besides all the human uh relationships relations that she does um both medically and in human relations and have has made a difference in so many lives. often total strangers that happen to know that I am her mother come up to me and can't say enough about what Christina means to them and what a giving, loving, compassionate person she is. It makes me burst at the seams that this little girl that was born to me and took on the role of caregiver at a very early age is making such an impact on so many lives. And yes, I fully I can uh

see what their concerns are with noise and traffic, but that's not who Christina is. First of all, she's not a noisy person. She's not a big party person. I have yet to attend one of her functions where there is anything other than maybe a guitarist, maybe a floutist like she said, but she's not a big loud party person. So, I want the neighbors to rest assured that that should not even be a concern. Thank you for your attention. Thank you.

I've been sworn in. My name is Bria Simick and I am the daughter of Tom and Christina. I was raised in these mountains. When I was 6 years old, we moved to the end of the road to where you could not go any further. We were alongside the forest road and we hear and we heard every complaint that everyone has complained about. We had we had the same complaints and the same concerns growing up. From fires to the road to the drinking, but that was never us. We have issues in our own family. We don't even have alcohol in the house. That's not who my parents are. Music was never a thing. We don't play loud music. They don't play loud music. We don't even play music unless there's an event. But also being raised in these mountains, I can't tell you how many events I have had back there for myself, for my own family. Surprise birthday parties, baby showers. I've had baby showers. I've had graduation parties, going away parties, birthday parties. I've had all the events. I got married here. We did everything for my wedding. And of utmost concern of my parents was making sure everything was planned according to our neighbors. When we started, when we ended, when everyone needed to be out, everything we did has always been concerned about the people around us. We've never been able to start a fire. We've never been able to light anything outside because my parents are so concerned around about our surroundings and about our neighbors. And not once did we ever have a concern come to us ever about any event. And I guarantee you they were larger than the 20 that my mom wants to have. And that was because that's our family. I can come over on any given weekend and there'll be more than 20 people because I have children and I have siblings and we have grandparents and that's all it takes for us to have 20 people at our house. So in the middle of this, my mom lost a friend and had an event at the house just to have the friends who lost a friend at the house and someone was complaining about that. And I don't think someone should have to live in their own home and be worried about people coming to them every single

time they decide to have their family over or to mourn the loss of a friend and not have it be a commercial or a business. None of that. And how is how are we going to know when the neighbors are going to complain and when they're not all of the sudden? They never recognized we ever had anything to do out there in the beginning until it came to us getting a permit. There was not one complaint about us. And the only thing about us over there is our neighbor who blasts his music at any given point at any given hour of the day. So he could work outside and no one's ever complained about that. So I'm just I I hope you guys can consider and I know any single one of you even any neighbor who has opposed this if they came to the property and they looked and they just saw what was there. Like we had during the summer we had a massive estate sale because we're trying to get rid of stuff just so we have less and we got to meet everybody from the neighborhood and everybody was so nice before coming in and they were kind and nobody ever complained about a single thing. So, if any of you guys before you make your decision, if that's the case, I know my parents would love to have you there and you guys could see what what's there and what you're you're making a decision on because I guarantee you it's definitely not what the concerns that are being brought do not they're not a part of my mother's events. So, I hope you guys can really take this into consideration um because it even puts a damper on how they get to live their life and enjoy themselves at their own house, too. So, thank you guys for your time. I appreciate it. Thank you so much. Pat beha and I was uh uh I took the oath. Thank you for listening to me. I want to just acknowledge that I have listened attentively to everything and

there all of this that surrounds us all the parameters all of the uh regulations all of the concerns that are valid. So but for now I would like to bring us more outside of this into the heart of what we're really talking about here. So I was interested when somebody mentioned the word culture. I stand on rooted culture of generations where my grandmother was a partera a kurandera and everything in a home was sacred. It was where ceremony happened. It wasn't where you present a credit card for big bucks to come together with your your family where somebody listens to the hearts ache or the heart's celebration in an intimate setting. There's no neon signs. There's no blasting of uh music. there's a celebration that honors life that honors the passing or the coming of a new life into this into the world. So when we talk about culture, I stand on that culture both in three languages. I stand in that culture knowing that the land we stand on, the home that they're offering to a community is a very sacred gift. And I just want you to think of it in terms of the heart and coming to the center of what this is all about. And yes, we have heard everything on the outside and the concerns and to my understanding they've addressed it. Thank you very much.

Thank you. somebody next.

Hi, my name is Rebecca Bear. I live at 27 VA and I am speaking truth. Um, my heart's racing. Um, I met Christina because um, a dear friend of mine shot herself in the head and Christina was there to hold the ceremony. And um I feel really grateful to to be here now and to hear everyone. And what I feel is shared from the people that spoke um against and for is a care for others and a care for safety of others. Um and I'm sad that a lot of people that I guess everyone that spoke or no not everyone has left most people and what I see in that is um they may have a intelligence and passion in a certain way they're seeing this issue but there's a disconnect from actually seeing Christina and her family and what she does um and actually taking in the whole picture of the value the health, the love that they're creating on their property and with others. And um I felt for the men who spoke who were in the military and I actually participated in an event with Christina where there were people who were um veterans and had a deep experience of healing and that gathering that we had. And so, um, I would just hope that even they though they have this sense of the noise would be disruptive for their health that if this does go through that they could actually feel the impact of the work that Christina does of how it does create a

deep sense of safety and healing that's beyond the mental ideas of what we think that we need and it's emotional and spiritual and relational. Um, and I have witnessed that deeply from the experiences I've had with Christina of how it's beyond what the mind thinks that we need, but it's actually about who's in front of us and how we connect with each other and actually see each other. And the more that we are able to grieve and feel our wholeness, the more we can actually respond with health and our and our right instinct and right action.

Thank you. [Music] County Commissioner. Thank you. Um, my name is James Lamar Knight. I live at 107 Placita Road in Santa Fe County, La Puebla. Um, I've known Christina for little less than 20 years and I know that she's a person of the highest integrity. She is truly a gifted healer. She knows how to bring community together, which is something that we need very much in these times. We can't always depend on the federal government to take care of us. We need people to bring peace and healing at these deep spiritual levels. and also Christina's deep connection, the history of her family, the deep connection to this land here in New Mexico, the land of various cultures coming together. And truly it is people like Christina who bring this process to fruition. Thank you.

Thank you very much. Is there my name is Barbara Powell. I'm living at 57 Apache Creek Road and I'm under oath. [Music] First of all, I'd like to say I was the next door neighbor before I moved to my new home. And there was nothing ever but absolutely beautiful gatherings that occurred. The energy that Christina and Tom have and the world that they live on in that space that they are is sacred. And there would never be something that they would do that would create any kind of problem for a neighbor because I was the neighbor and I need my quiet and I need my sacred space and I had it 100% of the time living right next door to them. So all I can say also in addition to that is that the work that Christina does has always been beyond the beyond of value. But in this moment, right now, it's more important than ever. This is my opinion, but I sense it and I feel it and I know it. She's a compassionate being. The world needs her now. Thank you.

Thank you. Do we Is there anyone else that would like to speak? Hi, I'm Brad Childs. I live at uh 46 Treehouse Road down the road from the village. Um and I'm here in support of the project. I think that uh I mean you heard a lot of negativity based on a lot of fear and I I just can't relate to that. I drive that road occasionally into town. I don't go every day, but where they're situated, it's not a curvy road. They're at outside the village, fairly straight. I I don't run into a lot of traffic. I don't think it's an issue. I'm comfortable with their project. I think it's good for the community. It it makes it a a wholesome, welcoming place, and I just have a lot of support for that. I uh again I think a lot of the concerns are are not valid and uh as a local I just want you to know that uh there's a lot of other folks who support this type of work that have been at other hearings. I you know there's a lot of rain out there today. I think we would have got a lot more if the traffic and the timing was better for this hearing. But anyway, I just want you to know it's heartfelt and they do good work and I think it deserves uh the blessing of this uh body. Thank you.

Thank you so much. [Music]

I'm Rusty Rodkkey and I am at 169 Hosis Road, uh Santa Fe. Hello commission commissioner work with commissioner at the legislature and uh commissioner uh and thank you for the opportunity. I've known Christina for about 20 years. Uh we've been in Toastmasters together for quite a while. Uh as commissioner or um chairman would might remember um you guys have a difficult balance difficult balance difficult job balancing the competing interest. the regulations are are so elaborate that it it's daunting for anybody to to try to attempt this uh effort. And uh appreciate you all the time that staff has put into it and uh and and the applicants, you know, if the road is substandard, and I think it is, uh the county needs to fix it. the infrastructure um the ICIP uh the infrastructure capital improvement plan uh is currently under underway right now uh for the next round of for the next 5 years and if uh Commissioner Adam Johnson isn't aware of just how desperate the community is at Kenya de los Alamos I would hope that that this body would actually inform uh the the new commissioner about that I looked up the just googled what the population of of Kanya de los Alamos is now and it's 680 and it it's uh it was down to about uh 235 uh 10 years ago. It's had a 10% growth rate. There's a lot of issues that need to be addressed. Uh but whether or not

this uh conditional use permit is is allowed uh evacuation routes, I've been informed that Apache Canyon that there's someone that there's a private land owner that has agreed to allow emergency ac uh evacuation down uh through their property uh to connect to that road uh the Apache Canyon Road. If there's three or four other um kind of connections like that that can happen, then I think that would really make a huge difference in the comfort and safety of the entire uh district 4 uh all of the the the mountain areas. I think that also firewise program is needed urgently for all those areas because they're living in a tinder box. Are the individual members and residents um doing what they can to uh decrease the hazard? Uh there needs to be a lot of thinning. Uh and then you know if if the road is substandard, how can it be fixed? The legislature now has more money than they know how to how to spend for crying out loud. And so if the county could be real proactive in trying to address this, then it would make a huge difference. Um, vice chair, the time is up.

What's that? He's informing the time is up. I'll give you a few more seconds here. Okay. But I appreciate all the But anyway, I I urge you to support this this work. Uh, Christina has helped uh my personal family and several others uh to do it. Uh, Mr. Mayor, thank you for for your your efforts in this. He was in my Cub Scout pack. Thank you. Do I have anybody else that's here to speak in support?

My name is Devin Green, 27 Verda Masita. I'm under oath and though I used to live on Old Forest Trail out past Kinyatta de los Alamos. Thank you for this opportunity to speak, I come here today in deep appreciation for Christina. I consider myself a a client and a friend of her. And in my time knowing Christina, I would say what really characterizes her is respectfulness and consideration. I see it in everything she does, every aspect of her being and relating. And that is why it is my opinion that she is completely trustworthy as a steward of her location. And I would be happy for her to have the freedom to have gatherings without a permit every time. And I would be amazed and gladdened if she could even have more than 20 people. Um, and I think it is very uncharacteristic to consider her as a commercial operation. She offers a deep sacredness. I I see the tremendous value in the work she does which has helped me in connection with my ancestors and who I am now. And I also see the value in her

beautiful home and the beautiful nature there to contribute to um everyone this process of healing. Um and finally, in the light of our constitutional right, our first amendment to to gather our freedom of religion, I I would encourage um that to be honored in Christina's case to support all her clients and friends to find peace with death to find celebration in birth and joining and in community. Thank you for your time.

Thank you. Thank you.

Anybody else in support? Yeah, good evening everyone. Um, I live about I don't know 100 yards as sound and crows fly from the proposed site and uh I think most of the arguments are really not germaine. The road is what it is. There's better ones and worse ones. Fire is a huge danger. We're all in fear of fire, but 10 more cars won't really make a difference. And uh the one concern I've seen tonight that uh touched with me was the gentleman with PTSD. Um I was also in Vietnam. I think ironically, Agent Orange kept me alive cuz uh the area where I was had been defoliated and casualties went way down. And so um all the rules and the regulations um I think we all know you can get around those. You can get a good lawyer, you can do what you want. And I think ultimately uh you're relying excuse me relying on the persons who are applying and I think their character is high enough that um they'll comply with the spirit of the law. So uh I would say let them give them a shot. Let them try it out. That's all. Thanks. Uh Mike Sullivan. Okay.

Thank you. [Music] My name is Alexandra Mertz. I live at 22 Cumbri Pass. Thank you. Um, I met Christina probably around 2018 and I became more intimate in uh knowing her as a human being in 2020. Um, in the place I was living at the time, all of my neighbors who were the elderly were afraid to go to the grocery store, afraid to work on the computer to get their applications and all of these things. And I started just helping out my neighbors a lot and telling my friends and neighbors, if you are that afraid of dying, I promise you I will come and sit with you if you get CO. And in knowing Christina, I became inspired to learn more about facing death. So in working with Christina, I continue to learn. And in Christina's events, she is connecting not only the traditions of New Mexican Quantera culture, but she is building the knowledge in younger people for the future to carry on her work. So I wanted to bring forth the impact of her events for those in all of our lives who will need to know how to in interface with death. Thank you.

Thank you. My name is Ines Andra de Marol or starboard and I'm here today to embrace the sacredness of the work that uh Christina Ina has been providing the community. um if my mom would have been open to um having a death doula, it was Christina I had chosen um as I heard from so many different walks of life, how she had helped people to overcome the death of um their loved ones and and how the community respects her in very many different settings and um from left and right as a ancestral worker as well. I have been really hearing about how gifted this being is and honoring her is honoring all the work that has been done here on this land. Thank you.

Thank you very much. Good evening, vice chair, commissioners. My name is Felicity Brennan. I reside at 7680 Old Santa Fe Trail. I'm directly across from the applicants and I am here in favor of you all granting this cup. Um, like others, I I find that an addition of 10 cars to a road that has become a highway in the 50 years that we've lived out there is absurd. And um, I know that everybody's concerned about fire. Absolutely, we all are. And last Sunday, as somebody mentioned, there was a little smoke coming out of Shaggy Peak and it terrified all of us. And um but there are other commercial um businesses out there that are impacting traffic. Um for example, Diamonte Lumbermill with the big 18-wheeler trucks that drive 20 m an hour with huge felled trees on them and then contractors driving trucks and trailers down the road with the products of that. um that definitely impacts our road and our capacity to get out. And uh Camp Stony, for example, this weekend is having the wonderful traditional music festival and there will be hundreds of people attending that music festival and I don't I mean I'm assuming they have a special use permit to do that. Um but these are all things that happen out there. There's also um the treehouse camp and they have you know additional people go on their mountain bikes up into the forest. So, an additional 10 cars. And I live right across. I mean, my driveway is almost directly across from theirs. And we've never had any accidents. We've never had any problems

there. So, I don't I don't suspect that that's an issue. Um, to compare this project to the AMA project is insane. And they were talking about thousands of people coming in for a week and camping and building a 16,000 square ft place to house their their their activities. So like that's just not even that's apples and dragon fruit or something. Um anyway, uh all to say that road has garbage trucks, propane trucks, trump dump trucks, concrete trucks, sewage trucks, and everyday cars, bicycles, and um all of them make noise. All of them um drive fast. All of them wear down the surface. And their motors are loud, the motorcycles are loud. We have people who shoot their guns at 10:00 at night. 12 rounds go off. You know, the neighbors like there's plenty out there. This is not Little House on the Prairie. And I so hope that you all will see through um the importance of what is being proposed and the incredible services that this um that Christina is offering. So, thank you very much for your time, your deep consideration, your paying attention to the regulations. Personally, I would have asked for forgiveness. These guys are amazing to go through the process. Thank you so much.

Thank you very much. Is there anyone else that would like to speak evening uh my name is Tony O'Brien. I live on Cailliamari Soul which is not very far from uh their property. Uh, and I've come to ask for that you give approval. I have been to one of Christina's uh, memorial services and I have to go along with what everybody said. It was quite touching, respectful.

Sir, can you raise the mic up a little bit? Touching, respectful, and quiet. Um, as Felicity said, Kenyatta Elzalamos is not Little House on the Prairie. There's a lot going on out there and for something like this would not have any great impact on the community at all. 20 people please. So I just ask you to ser sincerely consider the application. Thank you all for

Thank you so much. Okay. It doesn't appear there's anyone else that would like to speak. Uh staff, is there anybody online that uh is looking to speak? Vice Chair, there does not seem to be anybody online who wishes to speak on this matter.

Okay. Well, with that, uh, we're going to close public comment at this point and we're going to go back to the commission to ask questions, uh, to dialogue here, ask questions of staff. Uh, Mr. Ruiz, I do need you to come log me back in. I hadn't hit my mouse. Yes. Um I have a question about So before when the application um said 50 people, were they requiring a traffic study at that point?

Vice Chair Trillo um commission member members. Um so no when the initial proposal came in at a maximum of 50 there was no um requirement of a TIA at that point as well. Okay. Just because of the small amount and you know several times a month.

So a general assessment was was made um during our not only our technical advisory committee meeting but during the application process and um per chapter 66 section 6.1.4 Four, discretion of administrator. Uh, the administrator shall have the authority to exempt the applicant from a required SRRA if the administrator reasonably determines either that the information that they would likely result from the study report or assessment is either a already known and can be supplied by other means or b will have no reasonable bearing on the evaluation of the application.

Okay, great. Thank you. Commissioners, do anybody have any other questions for staff, please? Thank you. Uh, Mr. Vice Chair, I have uh several questions of staff. Uh, I think the first one was was uh already addressed about the the traffic impact analysis, so I'll skip that. Sounds like an a traffic impact analysis is not required in this particular case. Is that correct,

vice chair, commission members? That is correct. My next question following up on that, there's been reference to a uh a permit for an AMA event. Was that a conditional use permit request or was it a one-time? Do does anybody know, vice chair, commission members, I believe that was a conditional use permit uh request.

So that would imply that it was a not a single day or date. it was a longer duration or or in well for example you can have as a permitted use in this zone you can have a a religious uh institution right so the alma event was something different than that since it required a conditional use permit

yeah that is correct I mean my my knowledge on that project isn't you know wellversed um but my understanding is that yes there was an issue with um other events other than what the you know the intended use was that was kicking it into a conditional use um you know due to the amount of people attending um and amount of complaints gathered from the community. Thank you. Uh regarding uh the traditional uh community of Kinyatta de los Alamos, I know uh other traditional communities have uh existing plans that have been prepared that provide a bit more of the context than simply what the zoning code says is permitted, conditional, not permitted. Is there such a plan for Kanya de los Alamos?

Vice Chair, commission members, no. uh there is no no master plan with any you know additional uses or exemptions or anything like that. Uh there is no master plan for that area. So following up on that, it would be it would make sense at least to me then that if I were to look at the zoning code appendix B and I look at all the permitted uses in this zone and I look at all the conditional uses, I can get that's where I'm going to glean some plus the the public hearing, I'm going to glean u some uh insight as to whether this particular conditional use permit would be appropriate in this this location. Vice Chair, Commission members. Yes, that is correct.

Finally, I'd like to ask um follow-up question. Uh just for the record, in staff's opinion, have notification requirements now been met for the public hearing.

Vice Chair, Commission members, yes, noticing has been met um and is part of the exhibits in the packet that is uh has been submitted. And a follow-up question to the zoning question. According to appendix B, retirement housing is a permitted use in the uh traditional community zone. Um retirement housing is that like a single building? Can you give me some elaboration? Would that be? And that's a permitted use. Vice Chair, Commission members, I would have to look at the LBCS, which is the landbased um planning standards code book, which we use to reference. It does have a reference code there. Um but typically, my understanding of retirement, you know, um housing is going to be like a retirement home, uh much like what you see on the frontage road of 599 near the um Ela subdivision. Uh, typically that's what's going to be considered res retirement housing.

Okay. Um, bed and breakfast dens are permitted use, are they not? I'm sorry, Commissioner Pava, could you repeat the question? Bed and breakfast are a permitted use in the traditional community zone, are they not? Yes, that is correct. According to Appendix B, it is a permitted use. Mhm. Um I'm just going to go through these because I think it's relevant to the context of what we've been discussing in the the impacts on Pinñata de los Alamos and Old Santa Fe Trail. Uh convenience stores apparently are permitted use in the traditional community. Is is that correct?

Yes, vice chair planning commission members. According to Appendix B, uh convenience stores are permitted in the judicial community. It's interesting that a convenience store, what we can canote as a convenience store these days, I mean in the old days, they used to be local mom and pop places that Santa Fe was popular. I mean, there's one or two left. I think what this is implying is I could go they could go in and and apply and if they meet all the requirements, of course, there's septic and water and everything else, but lighting, but sounds like a convenience store would be a permitted use in this zone. No conditional use hearing required. And of course, I had mentioned earlier religious facilities. That's churches, mosques, synagogues. If they want to have something like that, if I if I lived out there, I could do that. Um, just as long as I meet other building and code requirements, it sounds like is that correct,

vice chair, commission members? Yes, that is correct. Yeah. Okay. You see where I'm going with this? Uh thank you for your forbearance. Um interestingly a conditional use in this zone is a household hazardous waste collection facility. They are not asking for that are they vice chair commission members? No they are not

good. Um and you know interesting enough this commission heard the commercial solar energy production facility hearing a while back and it is a conditional use but they're not asking for that. Livestock pens and hogouses conditional use. They're not asking for that. and on and on. So, I'd urge my fellow commissioners to peruse uh appendix B and those who were at the public hearing to get a better understanding of the request. Uh that's the end of my questions and comments. Thank you, Commissioner Pava. That was Thank you very much, uh Commissioner Buger.

So, Um question of staff. The uh did public works have any comments on this proposal?

Vice Chair, Commission Member Buger. So the applicant reached out to the roads division uh for public works and they provided them with a traffic count as the applicant stated which indicated a thousand cars per day. Um and that was I think believe I believe two years ago. It is part of the exhibits. Um I don't have it in front of me right now but it they did indicate that it was about a thousand a thousand cars a day.

Okay. the question and it might not even be specific to this case but it does this case brings it up. Um the administrator can make a finding that a traffic impact assessment is not required or how come it's the administrator not roads public works. There might not be an answer to that question, but it's just

Yeah, vice vice chair, commission members. Yes. So, the the code does state the SLDC does state that the land use administrator does have the authority to exempt any study report, not just necessarily a TIA. Um, it's typically case by case as many of you were here previously for the last meeting that uh required a conditional use permit for an accessory dwelling unit in the Tsuki village overlay. Obviously, a traffic impact analysis wouldn't be necessary for that. Um, as an accessory dwelling unit in any other overlay or zoning district is just a permitted use.

Thank you. Uh, last question. We all the um, I'd asked it before. So, say there's more than for whatever reason something happens there's more than 20 people. or or something. There's some kind of uh uh condition that has been approved to uh has not been met. It happens over the weekend. So the you said code enforcement um then issues a violation. I my my question is if a condition is not met then again What are the repercussions uh of that

and how can it be remedied for future vice chair commission members? So typically when code enforcement is informed of a violation, they'll go out and do an investigation. if they find that the complaint is valid, um, they'll issue, you know, a notice of violation or final notice of violation. Um, and typically what happens is the applicant will come in, they'll meet with staff and we'll identify the issue and, you know, they'll be allowed to do any type of mitigation um, through any type of measurements that we may find. So, it just kind of depends on what the violation could be. Um, you know, for instance, you know, if we're talking about lighting, um, code enforcement has a light meter, they could go out there and they can see what the requirements are. If they're exceeding their their maximum lighting, they could be required to mitigate that by either replacing the bulbs or replacing the type of fixtures. If it's emitting too much light or emitting light upward,

thank you. Thank you, Commissioner Ruger. Is there any other questions by any other commissioners? Yeah, Mr. Lac Cruz Crawford.

Thank you. Um, just to kind of go back to that TI thing just because I know there's obviously an attorney involved here that mentioned that you know TI would be required um legal u maybe a legal question. Am I correct that again just to make sure that legally staff is correct etc and stuff that a TIA in this particular case is not required. I also did look uh at the at the fact that um it does mention um you know there's an asterisk there on the table that does mention to look at the NM do state access manual. I looked at that briefly. Um it does seem to my extent that it would not be required but I just want to hear it from from u from councel.

Thank you for the question Mr. uh vice chair and commissioner Cruz Crawford. Uh certainly the the section that staff referenced for you is is applicable. There is certainly a subjective determination that can be made by the land use administrator hopefully or presumably in consultation with perhaps other departments, public works as an example. Um I I'm not saying that that took place in this instance. I I don't know how the determination was made, but I do think that uh that subjective uh flexibility does lie with the land use administrator in this case under the provision cited by staff.

Thank you. Um and I'll stick with some of the technical stuff right now and stuff, but I I I was totally hearing what Mr. Pava was saying. Commissioner Pava was saying as far as all the permitted uses that are here and you know we've got a conditional use permit. It does appear that you know um staff and I would also agree that they've met you know all the requirements with respect to uh you know an approval for a cup in this scenario. Um I was kind of curious though with respect to the special use permit scenario. So, I know that I understand that the special use permits is under county parks, trails, and open space requirements. It's not necessarily, and correct me if I'm wrong, but it's that special use permit requirement. Is is it only uh governed by county parks, trails, and open space? Because obviously this is something that's coming from the fire department, and I'm just wondering um yeah, what what you know where where that comes from. So, vice chair, commission members, um the special use permit, there's not a provision for the special use permit in the SLDC as far as events. Um that was more internal policy. Um you know, in the rewrite of the code, I know it's one of the items that's going to be addressed um and made sure it's detailed out, but as far as for events for special use permit, there's not necessarily a provision in in the code.

Okay. So, no special use permit provision in the SLTC code. It's only under the open uh county parks, trails, and open space. Correct, vice chair, commission members. Yes, that is correct.

Okay. The other part on that, the special use permits, it mentions that it's required for any commercial, recreational, etc., etc. for anticipated attendance of 15 or more peoples is what the code uh mentions. Um, and I bring that up just because I do think this 20 person scenario of that we're that's that's that's putting in as as a as a provision to a potential approval seems very low. I also think it's a little bit crazy hearing, you know, hearing like what's allowed, what's permitted in this particular area. Uh, you know, just the fact that as a private homeowner, I can throw parties. I don't have to have a special use permit, etc. um you know so um I want to just bring that up uh first of all and um and I also just want to I guess where I'm getting with this is I'm wondering um where did that 20 person come from? Um and then I'm just trying to figure out is it reasonable or not? um because in this kind of you know um scenario here where you know obviously you've got a retreat etc. Sure the majority of the vents might be under 20 that's fine but it almost seems to me like if we're if if fire department is trying to request a special use permit then perhaps that special use permit but should be for a far more significant amount of people that could come to these events. Like if they want to actually have a wedding, right? and they say, "Okay, we're going to potentially have 50 people or something like that." Then, okay, at that point, let's have a special use permit. But if we're dealing with like 20 because it feels like this is a very broad provision that we're saying you're going to get limited 20 no matter what. And then you're going to have to have a special use permit and all this and that, it seems a little uh heavy-handed. And it's not necessarily a question. This is just me talking. So, but please if there's any comments or um you know questions that come about from from my

comments, please go ahead. Well, is that u the special use permit is that going to be a condition, vice chair, commission members? So, yes, that was a condition um that again was addressed based on a concern of the fire marshall. But there was there were discussion with the Atlantis administrator um and she did mention that you know in if the planning commission wishes to amend that condition, we could allow that a one-time um special use permit is applied for and then thereafter we're provided a schedule or notification of when these events happen. That way the fire marshall is aware and they can make a proper inspection with the correct amount of time.

That that certainly makes a little bit more sense. Commissioners, any other questions? So, I have a couple questions for staff. Um, so in the in the conditions, the number eight, the applicant shall submit a site threshold analysis. I'm just I just I'm for my own knowledge, I'm trying to understand what that means. vice chair, commission members. Uh yeah, so based on concerns, you know, from the from the neighboring properties, you know, we put that condition in there. Um but then again it was then determined that after that condition was made the applicant reached out to the roads department with util with the public works and uh did the traffic count and it was identified that a STA a site threshold analysis wasn't required and wasn't going to be needed.

Okay. And so so so that could be amended out of the of the conditions. Is that correct? Vice Chair, uh, planning commission members. Yes, that is correct. And so I'm looking here. There's uh, let's see. Applicant shall submit a detailed lighting plan which meets requirements of the chapter 7.8. And then applicant number two, applicant should provide a detailed lighting plan prior to re recordation of the cup just so I'm wondering if that are those those are so those are two different things or that can be consolidated or what is that actually number two and number X. Yeah. So, Vice Chair Trio, Plint and CL members, those are basically the, you know, the the the same condition. Um condition number six is just a little bit more specific as far as you know a detailed lighting plan and you know also includes any type of specs specifications to make sure that the the um fixtures that are being provided or proposed are do meet the requirements of the SLDC. Um as far as condition number two, applicant to provide a detailed lighting plan prior to the recordation of the CUP that's also just to you know show that there is you know proper proper lighting indicated um that goes forward and forth

through approval and then they will have to obtain any type of um you know application or permit with the construction industry division for the uh electrical for the wiring for all the lighting. And so we do want to review that prior to um and make sure that all that information is documented and you know reverted onto the recorded cup site development plan. So So Mr. Cendos, uh so then you believe that both of those need to be in there the way they're written? No. Uh vice chair commission members, we could combine those.

Okay. And and Mr. just um the the 20 person it's it's kind of there was a question earlier that was kind of curious is that somehow this evolved down to the 20 people and I'm not sure where that came about but does that 20 people include if they as as mentioned before they have you know you need help and you have two or three caterers that come in personnel or is that the intent that they're included in the 20 vice chair planning commission members the intent would be that the it would be um attendees of the the 20 maximum, okay?

Not to include, you know, the applicants themselves or any staff member that they may have, you know, providing any type of service. Those are strictly for the uh attendees for the events. Okay. And so what would be the It seems like we already have to amend the conditions if we depending whether we vote in favor or obviously if we vote in opposition of this, we don't have to amend this. But if there if we do have to amend these, is it best to amend these uh individually? I mean indiv amends and then vote on the amended conditions or what would be the process to work this through?

Mr. Mr. Vice Chair, I I think what makes uh most sense and and would be a permissible approach would be uh for commissioners as a group to agree on which amendments to the conditions they think or you think are appropriate. Um if need be, you could certainly deliberate an executive session on that or you could discuss it openly. Um but but upon determining uh what amendments to uh these conditions you think are appropriate, I think one one motion to uh take whatever action you're contemplating based on the uh the the group of amended conditions.

Okay. So, Roger, so the the the the lighting one that would have to be joined, uh, what would be the language or how would we come up with the language for that that that's that's reasonable? Um, just, you know, whichever of you, you know, think language um would would make it. we, you know, ba based on the intent that you express, assuming it's as long as it's clear enough, we can then craft precise language to present to you when when the final order is prepared.

Yeah, it seems like condition six is more basically the same thing as two. I would delete two um if we're But does it make sense for us to do a motion first and and then

well we I as I understand it a motion can be made if if depending on the will of the committee and we're going to discuss this here in a second but um if you if a motion is made with whatever removal of these conditions out of that and in with in combination of of the motion to pass if that is the the will of the committee. I do want to make one comment though. I do feel that as as Commissioner L Cruz Crawford mentioned that the last one the one that was added in seems a little heavy-handed in my opinion. Uh I just I I I just look at you know after hearing all the other uh provisions or allowed provisions in this area now you know for somebody to have to go in every single for a week's time. It just seems a little little heavy-handed in my personal opinion. That's I'm just sharing my personal opinion here. But anyways, we're going to move I'm done with my questions and so I'm going to Is there any other commissioners that have any other questions here?

I just had questions for just confirmation. So the TAC um report does mention the fire marshall's remarks and they're they're fairly straightforward, you know. So, I mean, it's my understanding the fire marshall did look at this and really didn't have any major concerns or or is there anything that that came up during the attack meeting that's not in this report that that you could add light to with respect to any

vice chair? Yeah, vice chair planning commission members. So, no, during the TAC meeting, none of the uh none of those addressed concerns really came up. It was really only today um in a conversation with fire marshal BL that he addressed the concern of you know requiring at le you know a special use permit for each event um or like I mentioned you know which could be amended to even just one special use permit but a notification um or scheduling of of when those events are are booked or made. That way they can make the proper evaluation and inspection of the structures. And um with respect to amending something like that and being a little more specific like you mentioned as far as one or even uh I'll bring up just even amending say the the 20 uh attendee scenario that's currently there. Um it seems to me that that might be like you mentioned maybe a special executive meeting where we can kind of address numbers because I mean that seems a little more detailed than having to like sit there and give a motion. Is that am I am I wrong or right here with respect to like if we're if we're really going to amend something and can we I guess would be the question too, right? How much can we amend something like that as far as numbers or or you know fully amend something in a whole different language etc. And seems like something like that would require.

Yeah, vice chair planning commission members it would be totally appropriate to go ahead and and you know decide that and go over those conditions in executive session. Um and again the conditions are to your discretion um as the planning commission members. So you know any rewarding um elimination of a condition or adding of a condition is is totally at the discretion of the planning commission.

Okay. And then just a follow-up question with that with respect to the attendees. what other cups have come through, you know, here uh to the board and the county where a limitation to attendees have been placed or you know where this recommendations go. Has is there any other examples I guess with respect to cups that have come forward where you know we have or the board has or staff has recommended a reduction or a particular number and limitation with respect to attendees. Um I've done it several times. Are you done with the Yeah. Uh, Commissioner Ruger?

Thank you, Vice Chair Trio. We're having a discussion. The one thing I wanted to put out there, uh, uh, think if I'm understanding you right, Commissioner Lru Crawford, I the I would urge not to, um, alter the 20 limitation. the uh that would affect uh as I understand it uh the analysis that was done by environment department as far as the for the septic tank and the load in the septic tank. It would affect the uh uh uh the water usage. Um it would affect the applicants um you know response to it. I mean they're no longer talking about portaotties because of the limitation to 20 the uh if that limitation was not met might even affect the traffic and the determination for uh waving the traffic impact analysis. So um I would urge at least that condition be if this were to move on that be held. Thank you. And Commissioner Buger, I was just getting clarification on that as far as uh if help came if they were included in that. I got clarification on that.

And I have a question. So, um we if we keep the the limit at 20, if they for some reason had an event that was proposed that was going to be larger, could they come in for a special use permit? Vice Chair, planning commission members. So with the approval of the conditional use permit, that would just be the limited to the 20 attendees. Um I don't feel that with with that condition in place, they would not be allowed to have an event with you more than the 20 even with a special use permit.

And so um go ahead. Just one last thing I I want to mention um to Commissioner Buger. appreciate that I guess because that was a question before of like where did that 20 person limit uh limitation come from. Um and I guess I had not heard that and I guess that's would appreciate that. Is that correct that that 20 person limitation did come about because of the septic system analysis and water sessments etc.

Vice chair planning commission members. So the applicants provided that number in their initial report. Um and I believe that analysis came from when they reached out to the state engineers office um you know for water usage as well as to NMD for the for the septic. And so that's where they put a limitation on themselves. If it was over 20 people um then they were going to supply portaotties and purified drinking water um for the guests and I believe facilities for you know for handwashing I believe as well. Um the max out 20 I think became a condition or not necessarily a condition but a recommendation recommendation from the hearing officer meeting.

Okay. So just to clarify when the applicants initially came and they said we were expecting maybe 20 to 50 people the seems like there was maybe some opposition. Um they did their own diligence that wasn't required, right? So they went to the septic system to environmental department and to uh water use etc. and uh through that they decided okay we are ourselves are going to limit it to 20. So that I'm just trying to clarify that it was their own limitation and not the limitation of the agencies.

Vice chair commission members. So in the statement from the applicant they did state gatherings are 20 or less. We will limit these gatherings to 50 attendees. The condition was implemented by staff but that was based on the recommendation from the hearing officer. So it was a staff implemented recommendation of 20 max. um that recommendation was you know um revealed over to the applicants and you know they are of acknowledgement of that requirement and they have been in agreement of that requirement. Okay, thank you. Okay, any other questions from commissioners? So, uh what is the will of the commission?

Well, I can start a motion. Um so I motion to approve the conditional use permit uh for case 255020 um with the changes to the following conditions. We would strike condition two since it's redundant with with condition six. We would strike condition eight because you said it was staff's uh indicated it was no longer necessary. And I would strike 10, the proposed 10, unless we want to modify it to um have a schedule have a schedule of events supplied. um they're instead of having a special use permit every time if they would um provide a schedule of events so the fire department is aware of when those events are taking place. So that I would add that as a condition 10

vice chair planning commission perard. So is that to allow a one-time special use permit and then provide scheduling? Yes. So, how would that be worded? Uh, Dominic, Mr.

and what would it mean? Uh, if I understand the intent, the the condition could be worded to require a single special use permit. Um, you may want to put some limitations on that to to be renewed annually. In fact, I would have to ask staff if if there are time limitations on on special use permits, but I think that that would need to be considered. And And as part of that condition, you would like to impose a requirement that a schedule of events be provided in advance. Is that not accurate?

Yeah. I mean, does that makes does that make like logistical sense? Um well again staff can speak to the the logistics but I I think I think knowledge in advance uh is important to the fire. Commissioner De Cruz, I apologize advice that this is more of a procedural question since I haven't sat on this board for that long, but when a commissioner proposes a motion, u we other commission are not allowed to amend that emotion or are we allowed to have the discussion? Okay.

If if we feel like we need to go into executive session to to detail to hammer this out real quick, we can do that if that's the will of this committee. That was my recommendation. If I hear a motion in so I motion to go into executive session this to be clear about that process. The the appropriate motion would be to suggest that the commission go into executive session in accordance with the open meetings act solely and specifically for the purpose of deliberating on this particular agenda item.

Yes, I can't make that but that that's how it should be working. Okay. of that specific condition. So restate your motion. I uh I motion that this board goes into its executive special meeting to discuss only this particular case in accordance with the open meeting. In accordance with the open meeting act. Thank you. Thank you. That a correct motion. Roger. That that would be appropriate.

Do I hear a second? [Music] Okay. No second. Motion fails. So, um, we have a motion on the table. I mean, we and as I maybe we can get staff to repeat what what is removed in the conditions and we'll put it to about the language that as as we see we're going to see recorded. I don't have a second yet.

There's a second yet. We I just want to hear this so we can see if we get a second if everybody understands Vice Chair Py Commission members. Sorry, just writing this out so it makes sense to me as well. So, I propose the the condition that it's the the applicant shall apply for a one-time special use permit and provide a schedule of events that are subject to uh to be subject to fire to inspections or subject to inspections from Santa Fe County uh fire prevention.

Roger. Does that mean it certainly passes legal muster if that's if that reflects the intent of the moving moving party. Okay. So, we do have a motion. Uh it is a motion for approval of this cup with uh and maybe I will let the commissioner making the first go ahead and restate your motion so that everybody's clear.

Okay. So I'm I'm motioning I motion that we approve um in case I forgot the number of it already. um 20 2550 20 with the following conditions. Ah I'm having a technical problem here. Um wow. Okay. um with uh the conditions um as stated with the removal of condition two and eight and the addition of I guess that would be um

staff stated it already. So yeah, with the addition of uh the condition um it could be condition eight now. Okay. And so Domic, repeat it one more time. I'm going to ask for a second on this motion so everybody knows it. Applicant shall apply for a one-time special use permit and provide a schedule of events subject to Santa Fe County Fire Prevention. Do I hear a second?

I'll second the motion. Let's put it for a vote. Roll call, please. Yes. No. Yes. Yes. Yes. [Music]

Yes. Motion passed. Thank you so much. Okay. So, now we'll move to uh petitions from the floor. Seeing none, matters from the commission. Any matters from the commission, matters from the attorney? I have nothing to bring up.

Okay. Uh, our next regular scheduled meeting is see September 18th. Is that correct? Roger. Okay. September 18th scheduled meeting at 4 pm right here in this chambers. Uh any concluding business? Not seeing any. I have a motion to adjurnn. All in favor? I oppose.