Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

Welcome to the 12/11/2025 planning commission hearing. I will call this hearing to order at 01:02 p. M. Miss Carmen, can we please have roll call?

Thank you, Chair Wardlow. I will begin with Chair Wardlow. Here. Vice Chair Boss? Present. Commissioner Barnwell?

Here.

Commissioner Balki? Here. Commissioner DeLuccio? Here. And Commissioner Wiskum? Here. And Commissioner Peterson is here. We have quorum. Thank you.

Thank you. Let's get started with preliminary matters, request for continuances, withdrawals, postponements, or ex agenda items. Miss Arsenyega, do we have any?

Thank you, chair Wardlow. We do not have any.

Thank you. Do we have any announcements or appeals?

Thank you, chair Wardlow. We do have, I think this was previously announced, but just wanna reiterate, the 633 East Cabrillo Boulevard, Hilton, Hotel was appealed to the Coastal Commission. They did waive the forty five day limit, so, the Coastal Commission appeal item will take, will be happen within the year. So, not not within December as we had initially planned.

Okay. Thank you, mister Arsenaga. We're now on to item c, review consideration and action on the following draft planning commission minutes and resolutions for 11/20/2025 commission minutes. The Planning Commission resolution number 011Dash25226OliverRoad. Planning Commission resolution number 012Dash25 for 1250 Cliff Drive. Are there any Planning Commissioner comments on the minutes or resolutions? Okay. Are there any public speakers, for any of the minutes or resolutions?

I do not have any speaker slips at this time.

Great. If no comments, may I please get a motion to approve both the resolutions and the minutes?

I'll move approval. I'll second it.

Miss Carmen, can we please have roll call?

Thank you, chair Wardlow. I'll begin with commissioner Balki. Yes. Commissioner Deluccio.

Yes.

Commissioner Peterson.

Yes.

Commissioner Barnwell.

Yes.

Commissioner Wiskum. Yes. Vice Chair Boss. Yes. And Chair Wardlow.

Yes.

Motion passes. Thank you.

Thank you. And that takes us to item D, comments from members of the public pertaining to items that are not on today's agenda. Ms. Carmen, do we have anyone in person or remote that would like to provide public comment?

Thank you, Chair Wardlow. At this time, I don't have any speaker slips for in person public comment under general. If anyone in the room would like to speak under general public comment, you can approach the podium at this time. And I would just like to remind the audience that if you would like to speak under the specific item on the agenda today, you can fill out a speaker slip at the back of the room and bring it up to me, and I will call your name when it is time. But since we don't have any movement towards the podium, I'll move to virtual participation where we do not have anyone online with us at this time. So I'll acknowledge that we received written correspondence from Derek Booth and give it back to you.

Wonderful. Just we will now close general public comment and we will move on to item 31407 East Cabrillo Boulevard. This project involves tours and special events at the 23.4 acre Bella Grossodo property, also known as the William a Clark estate. The discretionary actions required in this hearing under the purview are an interior setback modification to allow vehicle parking spaces and temporary portable restrooms to encroach into the interior setback, a coastal development permit to allow a change of use from residential to a quasi public use, and C, a conditional use permit to allow a quasi public use in a PUD three zone, and a CEQA determination to determine that the project qualifies for an exemption from further environmental review. Today we have Kathleen Kennedy, and I think this may be one of her last hearings, with us today at the project planner to provide a staff presentation.

Miss Kennedy, the floor is yours.

Yes. Thank you, chair and commissioners. My name is Cathy Kennedy, project planner for this project. As you noted, the address is 1407 East Cabrillo Boulevard and the project site is known as Bella Squardo. I have a vicinity map here showing the location of the project site.

It's outlined here in yellow along the coast, just adjacent to the cemetery, Santa Barbara Cemetery, south of the bird refuge, next to the zoo, and the beach in this location. Give a brief project summary to start. The project site is a 23 plus acre property known as Bella Squardo and is also known as the William A Clark Estate. It was designated a city landmark in 1994 and the property is owned by the Bella Squardo Foundation. This project involves an operation plan to allow standard tours of the site, expanded tours, and special events, and includes currently temporary ADA accessible restroom and ADA accessible ramp to the rear entrance.

As the chair noted, there are discretionary actions before you today. The interior setback modification to allow parking spaces and temporary portable restrooms to encroach into the interior setback. And I'll just show you here on the aerial photo. We're talking about this vicinity for the setback modification. A coastal development permit to allow the change of use in the appealable jurisdiction of the city's coastal zone.

A conditional use permit to allow the quasi public use in the PUD plan unit development three point o zone, and then the CEQA determination that it it it qualifies for an exemption from further environmental review under section one five three zero one related to existing facilities. So, the project requires a coastal development permit. The CDP approval requires findings that the project is consistent with the policies of the California Coastal Act in the city's local coastal plan, and we'll be talking about those policies later. Here's a aerial photo of the project site just to point out the main residence here and the garden area, Rose Garden to the right here. In terms of the conditional use permit, a public or quasi public facility is allowed in any zone with a conditional use permit or what we'll call a CUP.

A quasi public facility is a facility that is open to the public and has a public purpose, but is not owned or operated by a governmental entity. Examples would be a community center, a public museum, or an art gallery. The proposed use of this historic residence for tours and special events does qualify the project as a quasi public facility. The CUP approval requires findings that the proposed use is compatible with the surrounding area and that it will not have a negative impact on any parking and parking in the street. In terms of this particular project, the Bill Escardo Foundation has opened the property to public tours since December 2022 and has hosted a number of special events and rented the space to other private entities.

During this time, the foundation has been able to optimize the operations and we have not received any complaints related to those in the city. During this time, the staff has been working with the applicant to determine any necessary information needed for this unique conditional use permit and to work out many of the details. A lot of back and forth coming up with what is the most important information to present to you. The city, as you know, has a long standing vision of welcoming wanting to welcome the public to this property and is now ready to bring this project forward for your approval. An application to propose permanent ADA facilities, so that would be to replace the temporary restroom and the temporary ramp, will be required to be submitted within four years of your approval if you approve that today.

And that's been added as a condition of approval. Going into the property operations and parking here to explain what and how this works. First, in regard to the residence tour, here's the plan showing the main entrance. So this is the decorative court here and the main entrance to the residence. In orange are the locations of the house tour.

And then the accessible entrance is in the back here in this area in blue. That's where the ramp is located. In terms of accessibility, there's accessible parking and what we call Parking Lot 1 in this area. Rideshare drop off area and accessible path of travel to the ramp area here. And then there is one portable restroom trailer located in this location right now that's ADA accessible.

Here's a site plan of the overall site. This shows where the buildings and parking lots are. First of all, visitors would enter in the service gate here. This is closest to the cemetery. If you attended the site visit, this is where you would enter. You entered the other day. And then driving through the site and then eventually exiting out the main gate, which is closest to the beach. There's no pedestrian access to the property. And like I said, these are show the buildings. So buildings A through R are listed here.

A is the main building. B down here is the carriage house that has some antique cars. And M up here is the Andre Cottage and other buildings throughout the site. And then parking lots are numbered one through eight. Number seven, this one here isn't used, but all these others are referenced in the plans and in the staff report.

So for standard tours of someone wanting to go on a tour of the house, they would be allowed to park on-site. So there are 25 visitor spaces and eight employee spaces. So you would enter at the service gate and follow along here. Be directed to where you could park on-site. There is also another level of tour we're calling the expanded tours where a lot more people will be coming per tour.

And again, those people would be parking on-site, but there would be valet parking instead. So some of these areas could be converted from regular standard parking to valet parking. And that would increase the parking from 25 visitor spaces to over 50 spaces. We talked briefly about the interior setback modification. So this is a little blow up of that area.

In this area, the setback from the property line is 40 feet. This would encroach the parking, which is not showing exactly the way it is on-site, but it does show the encroachment. So they're parking potentially within that 40 foot setback. Staff is supportable of this. It does keep them away from the main lawn area.

These spaces are necessary for the tour and special event operations. It is located close to the cemetery property. Doesn't appear to be detrimental to the adjacent land uses in that area. Parking and circulation for special events is a little different. Primarily, the parking will be off-site and the people will be shuttled in from the hotels or school parking lots by shuttle.

Visitors and staff would arrive by shuttle or using rideshare or taxi or bicycles. Although some VIP parking is allowed on-site with previous permission. And most likely in the one parking lot one, which is where the eight day parking is, or Parking Lot 5, which is a larger area that's can be used for valet parking. So in your packet, there are a number of plans showing all the different parking lots and the size and the working out how many cars can fit where. And I'm just gonna show you a couple of those.

So here we'll look at Parking Lot Number 2 and for standard tour, this area here will accommodate 10 visitor parking spaces and one staff parking space And then when it converts to valet parking, this area here would end up being 18 valet parking spaces in the same area. They've shown that for each parking lot throughout the site, and you can see those in the plans. In your staff report, in the conditions of approval, so noted here, page 16 begins the property operations and parking standards. So it outlines the three different levels of tours or activities on-site. The first being the standard tour, everyday tour where you sign up on the website and you let them know how you're arriving, either by rideshare or car, and if you need parking.

And the website also provides other information that's important for the visitor to know. Similar information about the expanded tours. The main difference is that there's valet parking allowed. These are larger groups, so more parking is needed. And then thirdly is the special events.

And these are events sponsored either by a Bella Squardo or by some other third party that rents the location. These large events would require off-site parking because there's not enough parking on-site and they would have the people being shuttled to the site to visit. Although again, there would be some VIP parking on-site as needed. One of our requests in the conditions of approval is that the off-site parking information be provided to staff two months in advance to determine that there are no conflicts with any street closures or any other potential issues that may occur during that timing of that special event. As I noted previously, policy consistency is important for the CDP and also for the conditional use permit.

Staff has determined that the project is consistent with policies related to public access and related to parking, also consistent related to visitor serving facilities, and that this is providing use of the private land for public purposes, which is a coastal policy. It also provides opportunities for the public to visit this private historic coastal property that typically would not be accessible to the public. And of course, it is consistent with policies related to the preservation of historic resources. As I said, this is a city landmark. So this would enable people to see the historic resource, provides education to the public, and also potentially to help them maintain and preserve and repair as needed.

The project did go to design review, historic landmarks commission back in 2020. At that time, we wanted to make sure they were in support of this temporary situation of having temporary restrooms and a temporary ADA ramp next to the historic structure. At that time, there was a proposal to have some parking spaces in that decorative forecourt area. And the HLC did not was not in support of that, and that's actually changed since then. Had some concerns about the larger parking area in Lot 5 and they had suggested shuttling and off-site parking which was part of the project.

Since that meeting, like I said, no parking spaces are proposed in that decorative forecourt. And also Lot 5, which at that time was Lot 6, was reduced in size from 42 to eight spaces. The eight spaces are the standard. But that area could be used for valet parking for special events and for larger events. In terms of environmental review, the project qualifies for an exemption under 15,301 existing facilities section of CEQA.

It allows for projects that have negligible or no expansion of use. In this case, there's no physical expansion of the facility, although it will be used by more people. The city's architectural historian determined that no historic structures or sites report was necessary for the proposal because it would not have a negative impact on the landmark building or landscape. And that was looking at the restroom and the ADA ramp are the only changes that would be occurring in the exterior. So there are findings, and they're in your packet, Findings for environmental review for the interior setback modification for the coastal development permit and the conditional use permit.

And staff has made a recommendation to approve the project. We have a recommended motion. Excuse me here. For you to to say that approve the project, making the findings for the interior setback modification, the CDP, the CUP, and the secret exemption all subject to the conditions of approval in Exhibit A of your staff report. And that concludes my presentation. Wanted to let you know we do have staff here. Jessica Grant from Transportation Planning. We also asked Robert Uli or someone from HLC to attend on behalf of HLC. And I don't know if he's here. Yes.

And that concludes my presentation. Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Kennedy. We will now hear from the applicant. Would you please come up and state your full name and relationship to the project? You'll have fifteen minutes to present.

Oh, hello chair and members of the commission. My name is Jeremy Lindeman and I am the president of the Bella Squardo Foundation. Thank you for having me here today and thank you to Ms. Kennedy for the great presentation that she did. I want to tell you a little bit about the history of the property and how we got to where we are today.

So, as mentioned, the property is about 23 and a half acres, and it sits in the South Eastern most corner of the city. The property line of Belle Esguardo is a cemetery and that is also the city county jurisdiction line. A little bit about the foundation itself. We are a 501C3. There's been a little confusion about this in the past.

We are not part of the city of Santa Barbara or any other government entity. We have not taken any money from the city of Santa Barbara or any other government entity. We are just a nonprofit foundation much like Lotus Land, Casa de Herrero, any other examples. So the property was used for centuries. The Chumash people were obviously using it like they were much of the South Coast.

In the late nineteenth century, it was developed by a man named George Booth who built a house up there, and it was kind of known as Booth Point at the time. At the turn of the century, it was purchased by the Graham family. And the Graham family in 1903 hired Francis Wilson, the architect, to build a very much a neoclassical Italianate villa, which he did. And they also hired Charles Platt, the landscape architect, who did most of the grounds that are actually still there today. They were very, very interesting people.

Very sociable. Traveled the world. The property was in newspapers across the country. They were friends with the King of England. Their daughter Geraldine was a bit eccentric despite having the huge Italianate villa. She chose to live in a thatched roof cottage on property. That thatched roof cottage is still there. But in the late teens and early twenties, things changed for the Grams. Their marriage kind of fell apart. I think they hit upon hard times.

They were divorced. And in 1923, a couple named William Andrews and Anna Clark showed up and they purchased the property from Eleanor Clark at the time they got divorced for $250,000 in 1923. So the Clarks were an interesting group of people who have kind of faded from history, but except outside of Santa Barbara. But they had quite an impact nationally. William Andrews Clark was born twenty three years before the Civil War in Pennsylvania.

He set out West to find his fortune. He wound up in Montana, first selling goods and merchandise from mining camp to mining camp. He eventually settled in Bannock, Montana and got into banking where he lent some money to some gold and silver operations in Butte, Montana. He had to foreclose on those gold and silver operations and realized he knew nothing about mining. So he packed up and moved to New York City where he attended Columbia University for a year, returning to which has a school of mines. Returning to Montana and realize the gold and silver mines were worthless. But what was in Butte, Montana was the largest load of copper ever found in The United States. Things moved very rapidly. Edison patents light bulb in 1878. Demand for copper is just exponential.

William Anders becomes a very wealthy man, has lots of other business interests and political interests. He becomes The United States Senator in 1900. He also builds the only privately financed railroad ever built in America. It runs from Los Angeles to Salt Lake City. So those were the days when you had steam locomotives, you need stops with water. And one of the stops was a sleepy little Mormon encampment called Las Vegas. So Clark County, Las Vegas is named after William Andrews Clark. He did pass away though shortly after purchasing Bellasguardeau in 1925. He and Anna had had two children together. The first was born in 1902.

Her name was Andrea. And the second one was Huguette, who was born in 1906. Tragically, Andrea passed away in 1919, just shy of her seventeenth birthday. And the Clarks proceeded to dedicate a lot of memorials to her. The one that's most notable for us in Santa Barbara is the bird refuge. So in 1928, the city was attempting to clean up the saltwater marsh that that that that was there. There was always a bad smell. And so they transformed it into the bird refuge that we know today. They naturalized the shorelines, added the islands and so forth. And the Clarks donated a sum of money of, we were told, 50,000 to name it the Andrea Clark Bird Refuge.

So if you ever go walk around the Bird Refuge, you'll see Andrea Clark, her name plastered all over the place. So fast forwarding a few years. In 1933, Anna decides that the original Bella Squaredo had been damaged in the nineteen twenty five earthquake and she wanted to build something that was a little more to her taste. And I think they were very concerned about the safety of the building. So they demolished the original house, and they hired Reginald Johnson, a Pasadena based architect, but has done a few dozen homes in the city of Santa Barbara and Santa Barbara County.

He's most famous probably for doing the Biltmore Hotel and the downtown post office. So in 'thirty three they began construction and they finished about 1936. The house itself sits roughly on the same location where the Graham House was. About 25,000 square feet of living space and service area plus a 6,000 or so square foot basement. They had only six bedrooms and they were very much not big entertainers at the time.

But we do have some newspaper articles of them hosting garden parties and the Paganini Quartet and stuff like that. So they used the house primarily one month out of the year. They didn't come at all during the war years, so '42 to '45. So making it about thirteen months worth of actual use by the Clarks, which is kind of shocking. So after 1953, though, they stopped coming to California and hence, Bella Squaredo completely.

Anna passed away in 1963. The property ownership transferred to the daughter, Huguette. Some correspondence with the city did begin around that time. There was a lot of interest in what would happen to the property. There were suggestions such as orphanages, historic museums, stuff like that.

You've got a slides up there with correspondence with Sheila Lodge happening in the early 90s. But unfortunately Mrs. Clark became a bit sick at first. And in her 80s, she moved into a hospital in New York City where she surprisingly remained for the next twenty two years of her life. And nothing was able to be put together at that time.

So kind of get a little interesting now. Huguet passes away in May 2011. Again, three weeks shy of her 100 birthday, which is just kind of shocking. Her father was being born twenty three years before the Civil War and the daughter dying in the Obama administration. She was very generous, especially in the last thirty or so years of her life.

Famously, there was a book written by a man named Bill Dedmon called Empty Mansions that outlined some of her giving. She gave over $20,000,000 to her nurse. Lots of lots of personal gifts. But unfortunately, in her nineties, she signed two wills, and they were within six weeks of one another, and neither of them were properly executed. And anyone knows anything about the joys of inheritance, bred for meant for a lot of complications.

So the whole probate was put into, you know, very contentious, very acrimonious state of affairs. And it was not actually settled until 2013. And during probate it was discovered that because of her generosity, which was great, she or her accountants and lawyers and all the people that she relied upon, because again she was in her 80s and 90s while she was doing this, had failed to pay gift taxes, generational skipping taxes, and had failed to file gift tax returns, which brought in the IRS. Again, this only happened after she passed away and caused a lot of additional complications. So the result of the settlement was that it was deemed that the California property was the charitable aspect of her estate.

So everything essentially in New York had to be sold. You might have read at the time there were Monets and Renoirs and Stradivari violins and all that kind of interesting stuff. But because she had spent such an amount of money preserving California, that was the charitable aspect of the estate. So the revised will called for the establishment of the Bellasguardeau Foundation, which was the residual beneficiary of her estate, which essentially meant that we had to deal with all of the IRS problems. So in 2014, we were very excited and thinking that the IRS, we had had a framework with the IRS for a settlement.

And nothing of that framework really changed. It was there from the time probate was settled. But just the IRS and things. It took till the 2017 for the IRS to actually get it all done. It took an act of Congress.

We had to go before the Joint Committee on Taxation to get it approved. Oh, such a joy. And so in late twenty seventeen, we were able to transfer the property actually to the Bell Escuardo Foundation, which set off where we are now with opening it to the public. We immediately began working with city administration and discussing how best to move forward with everything. One of the early comments that we got from city staff was that the Planning Commission would have to find that there was adequate access in off street parking, including parking for guests provided is provided in a manner and an amount that the demands of the development for such facilities are adequately met without altering the character of the public streets in the area at any time.

So essentially that meant we had to park everyone and no one was going to be able to approach, park on East Beach and walk up. And the only really real way to do that en masse was through a booking system online where you go on, you make a reservation. This is done at other locations. I think Lotus Land, the Botanical Gardens also have such requirements. And so we came up with some solutions.

COVID hit public health closures, all that fun stuff. And we began offering tours via the website in 2022. We currently offer tours Wednesdays through Sundays. We have a great team of about 40 or so docents that lead these tours. In addition to the tours, one of Bella's Guardo's mandates is a place to foster and promote the arts.

So we host chamber music events, jazz performances, Jane Monheit, Janice Siegel, plein air painting classes from local schools, dance. Flamenco Santa Barbara performs during Fiesta. We have master classes, so basically we'll bring in musicians. We recently brought in Zul Bailey, but we also brought in the Rushmore Quartet. So they'll do a performance on Friday evening, let's say, and the next morning we'll have student musicians come in often early teens come in and do master classes with them.

We've had collaborations this whole time with other nonprofits in town. Pacific Pride Foundation did a talk at Bella Squaredo. We work closely with the historical museum, the culinary experience, did some programming here as part of culinary week. And we're looking to expand those opportunities. In July, sorry about the sound, we hosted the Santa Barbara Symphony, which came and played on a stage on the lawn, where we had about 800 community members there to enjoy it.

Come on. And looking to the future, you know, we're we're building on our tour programming. Currently, tours are are focused on the history of the property, the house, the family, and that's where a lot of interest is. But there's just a whole lot of other opportunities. The architecture of the house is fascinating to architects and anyone interested in design.

We're having specific programs put together, or specific tours put together for that. We're also expanding opportunities for school programming. We've been working with the school district to bring kids up in school buses, very organized. That helps a lot. And then eventually, we're looking to find a way to do non docent led tours.

So this would be some sort of program where you would arrive at the property, get some sort of headphone system, and you'd be able to walk around. And you've seen these in museums before. You'll have number 27 or whatnot. You put it into the iPad or whatever you're using, and it tells you the story of that and kind of gives you a little direction of where to go. We're also looking to improve and make parking strategies more efficient.

It was a couple months ago, the CEO of Uber came out and said, in twenty years, no one's going to be driving unless you're doing it as a hobby, much like you ride a horse today. So I mean, I think we're going to see a lot of opportunities as they arrive over the coming decades to really expand the accessibility and use by not having cars parked there. Obviously, that's not for today, but that's certainly what we're looking forward to. With that, I want to thank you again for all of your time and patience, and thank you for making the visit out. And thank you again to city staff for all their work. And we'll go from there.

Thank you and perfect timing. That takes us to public comment from members of the public that would like to make comment on this specific item. Miss Carmen, do we have anyone in person or remote that would like to provide public comment?

Thank you, Chair Wardlow. Yes, I do have a couple of speaker slips for in person public comment. The first speaker that I will have is Dacia I apologize if I pronounce your name wrong Harwood, followed by Dennis Whalen. You will have three minutes to speak.

You were correct, thank you, by the way. I'm Dacia Harwood. I'm the Executive Director of Santa Barbara Historical Museum. Thank you for letting me take a quick moment to support the Bella Scordo Foundation and all of their activities. We first started talking a lot about UGAT Clark in 2014. Jeremy mentioned it earlier, but there was a book released, Empty Mansions, by Bill Dedmon. It actually became the largest lecture that the historical museum has ever hosted. There was a lot of discussion, as you might imagine, in 2014 about this mysterious woman and this incredible story. And so, of people later, we were able to tell quite a lot of our fellow community members about this person. And there was obviously a lot of interest.

So that's where our kind of real first step began. The historical museum began in 1932. We have a longstanding interest in Santa Barbara history, and so this is yet another incredible one of our stories in Santa Barbara. As we began to get to know the Bellas Grotto Foundation, we started talking to them about archiving, future docent planning, museum standards. In 2019, we began to strategize how we might work together with them to really share some of the incredible treasures over at the estate.

And in 2021, we announced a collaborative exhibition that would open in 2022 sharing the artwork of Mrs. Uget Clark, who was an incredible, rather reclusive artist, as you heard from Jeremy. She spent time, quite a lot of time actually, in Santa Barbara on her own, in her studio. While the home was under construction, they spent time at Meridian Studios, which is just one block away and right next to the historical museum. She was there with well known artists like Jody Young and Ed Boreen.

And she actually participated in community shows at the Faulkner Gallery, and supported actually quite a lot of well known artists here in town by buying their artwork. So we became rather entranced with her story. And in developing this exhibition, it was actually the largest event or largest exhibition opening in our history. Over a four month period, we welcomed 20,000 visitors. All came free of charge, an incredible moment of access to really a lot of her artwork at the time and her story.

During that time, we explored the archives that were being held over at the Bellas Gordo Estate. We shared photos from her time at the Meridian Studios, her time at the Biltmore, and it was all really interesting to kind of put it all together. But again, so much interest. Later, we began searching for little things like her interest in Fiesta. So she was making reservations at the El Paseo.

She was hosting small parties. And we really we became entranced with this again. So we hosted four pop up exhibitions, again, in collaboration with the foundation. We've since done quite a lot programming, including an additional 15 lectures, various on-site and off-site tours, and going back further with regard to the Graham family there as well. So anyway, thank you for letting me just speak a little bit about our interest in the foundation, and our congratulations to them on all the great work that they've been doing.

Thank you. Thank you. Next up, we'll have Dennis Whelan followed by Brian Service.

Good afternoon, commissioners. My name Dennis Whelan. I'm a local architect, and I've been a docent at Bella's Guardo for a couple of years now. I just wanted to add briefly my voice to supporting the opening of this rather extraordinary facility that we have available in Santa Barbara. It's another attraction that we can count as upwards of the gold standard.

It's a terrific asset for the community. I encourage you to support the modifications and the staff recommendations. I would also like to acknowledge miss Kennedy for her dogged pursuit of getting this work done, and I hope it goes out on a high note for your retirement with a footnote to mister Lindeman's comments that we will no longer need parking in twenty years, much to your relief of struggling with that issue. And I would like to note that there's been no opposition from the very quiet neighbors. Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you. The last speaker slip that I have is for Brian Sarvis. So you can approach the podium. Sure.

Good afternoon. I'm Brian Sarvis. I'm a dedicated volunteer to the Bellasguardeau Foundation. With dozens of other docents, we regularly guide visitors on an in-depth tour. I think you participated in a similar tour of the facilities. The history, the architecture, the art of Bella Squadro, and we receive overwhelmingly positive reviews and feedback from visitors. This is a great gig. It it doesn't pay you any money. All you get, you get paid in in compliments and ooze and ahhs. You might wanna join us.

I was superintendent of Santa Barbara schools for many years. I also served on a number of boards for organizations in town who provided educational opportunities for kids. Museum of Natural History, United Way, YMCA, Education Foundation. I still feel like the kids in this community are my kids. So for years now in my retirement, I've been taking classrooms of kids through the old mission, through the courthouse, and now increasingly to Bella Squadro.

Last spring, Katie Garibay, a great art teacher at San Marcos High School, brought her advanced art students to to the property to do a plein air art project. It was a great success. Plus, the kids got to hear the story of the history of the property, and they got to enter a a different world. An exquisitely built French Normandy chateau filled with 300 year old French antiques. And and they got to see that the big rooms in a house like this are not dedicated to watching movies.

They were dedicated to the love of music and the love of art. That was quite something. As the foundation expands its partnerships with local schools and with teachers, I look forward to educational opportunities similar to what maybe the mission, museum of art, museum of natural history, and the zoo provide for students. You know, where they build programs, they've spent many years working on these programs and and they change them over time. I'm pleased to report that the foundation is working on providing premier opportunities for students in our community, and I applaud the foundation.

And I certainly support the request. Thank you.

Thank you. With that, I don't have any more speaker slips for in person public comment. We do not have anyone online with us at this time. So, I will acknowledge that we received written correspondence from James Hurley on behalf of Price, Postel, and Parma, and give it back to you.

Thank you. So, before we go to questions from my fellow commissioners, I know we have members of the HLC here today. Would anyone like to come and make any comments before we get started on questions? Okay. Alright. Well, with that, who would like to go for some questions?

Commissioner Deluccio.

Really brave. I'm going first. And Ms. Stolby has no questions. He's usually not that quiet. I have some questions actually. Maybe the Mr. Daffel, can you come up here, please? Can I So I know that when it went to HLC, it was more it went there more for the handicapped components? But they got into a lot of parking discussion. And from that can you just recap from that what you are doing different for the parking? And did you go by some of the input that they had given you?

Yes. So the main concern that we were hearing from HLC members were The parking lot that is immediately between essentially the building and the ocean is very decorative. And they wanted to see no parking on it. We had had some suggestions that we even cover the parking. That was not something we wanted to do.

So just in the interest of making sure that, that historical asset was preserved, we've just eliminated it as a parking opportunity. We also reduced the size of the parking lot, Kathy. It was, as she mentioned, Parking Lot 6 when we went to HLC, but because of the changes, it changed to Parking Lot 5. So yes. And we you know, we've also we'll willing to plant and have planted additional vegetation so that those cars are not seen by the house.

You do some screening, in other words. Yeah. Exactly. Okay. Thank you for that. So for you have standard tours, expanded tours, and then you have events. So for the events, would be shuttled in uses a shuttle system for that and Exactly. And where would and so they'll come in a bus or whatever, some kind of shuttle. And where do the what happens? They drop

them off and then what happens to the shuttles? The shuttles leave the property. So shuttles go in one way, go out the other way. So we've brought Santa Barbara trolley up in Santa Barbara. So for our fourth of July event, that's probably the best example. We parked everyone at Santa Barbara High School. They got on the trolley at Santa Barbara High School. Santa Barbara High School drove down Milpas Street to Cabrillo, came up the property, dropped everyone off, exited the property out the other gate, went back, picked up another load of people, came back. I think we had all six or seven of their trolleys operating at that time.

And where are they being dropped off again? Not in the forecourt, correct?

Yeah, not in motor court. So there's can you pull up a so you see where Parking Lot 7 is. They come up the same way that the regular tours would come up and they are dropped off where the parking lot goes into, so people walk on the decorative mosaic.

Okay, so I have one or two more questions. So just moving on. So I actually do get your correspondence. And I'll just disclose, I actually been there for the event, for empty mansion, but I paid for the event. I bought tickets and I paid for those tickets. Just wanna make that clear. And so I For for that, had firsthand experience of how you dealt with the larger crowds. And and then I did the tour with some of my other commissioners on Tuesday. So when I went was there the first time, the 2nd Floor was open. Are you using we are you using that for the part of the tours right now or just the 1st Floor?

So we are using parts of the 2nd Floor for tours. We don't have a program that is currently set for you know, it's much more of a narrative story and we've noticed that most folks are looking for about an hour and a half. Those types of expanded tours, though, it's more free flowing. We bring in basically 15 or 20 docents, position them around the house so you're able to walk wherever you want to walk. When you're coming on a standard tour, we find standard tours really do go about two hours and that's the end limit of people's interest.

So it's as of right now downstairs. But as again, it goes to we're looking for further programming. So tours that are focused more on the art and architecture will probably utilize more of those spaces.

So standard tours, the website, currently you're doing two tours a day when you do them.

Three tours a day.

Three, it was like, I saw 12 and I saw two.

There's well, when you that if you're not seen, like, if you saw a 12 and a two, or you you you would never have seen a two. Two hours. Tours are ten a. M, 12:30, and three p. M. And as soon as that tour sells out, you don't see

it available. So there are two hour tours. So I guess when we look at the conditional use permit later on, actually maybe we need to reword it a little bit because they're showing the tours are an hour and a half. And I believe they're two hour period.

We there should be an hour and a half. You know, depending on questions, depending on all, all, all, you know, we would like to keep it as an hour and a half. But again, it's sometimes difficult.

I'm just going to suggest some different wording. Maybe instead of calling out times, it's up to seven a day or something.

Sure. That'd be great.

Yeah. And I have Thank you. And I have one clarification for Kathy. Kathleen, did I get your name right? You're not Rosie,

right? Not today.

I've got them confused in the beginning in the first year. Basically, when we're talking about the number of cars that can be parked. Okay? So when we're looking at the standard tours, you have the maximum size of each tour group shall be no more than 88. I'm not sure where the number 88 came from. I know when they did the analysis, they came up with a limit of 60, but then they gave a range of 50 to 75. So I'm not sure where 88 came from. Hi, Jessica.

Yes, hi. Good afternoon. Jessica Grant, supervising transportation planner. Okay, hold on for one second. I'm gonna grab this.

But we worked with the consultant team's transportation planner, which was Gibson Transportation Consulting. And so there was the sort of low range of visitors, high range of visitors, and there's a range for that. And then the reason for the range is because typically with the type of tours, it's not, it wouldn't necessarily everybody's arriving by single occupant vehicle most of the time. You're with somebody else, your family. So anyway, that's why we have certain ranges for that.

So that's where we try to be like on the conservative side and show the maximum number. So that's where the 88 came from. It was through there.

But 88 is not cited anywhere in the traffic before

It is on page 26 of 55. And it's actually page three of that particular report. But I think if you were looking electronically or a hard copy

Mhmm.

It's page 26 of 55.

I saw 50 of 75 is what I I saw.

And yeah. It's the one, two, three, four, fifth paragraph down.

It does cite 88?

Yes. And and it says for projects, visitor load could reasonably range from 59 to 80 visitors on any given scheduled tour.

Okay. So it's I I missed that I guess. Okay. So so we can actually change this later and maybe make a range instead of just an absolute number or something.

Yes. Yeah. There's actually there's a high like so again on the high range it says the high range of of for like if you were assuming if there was three visitors per car. Mhmm. So that's where they they're getting the the math on that to get

to the

88.

Thank you for clarifying. Yes. Okay. Those are my questions right Thank

you, commissioner Delicchio. Commissioner Wiskum?

Thank you, madam chair. Let me go back to my sorry. Yeah. So, since the I guess this would be for Mr. Lindeman. Since the intensity of use is expected to increase with the expanded tours and the special events, I'm particularly interested in the special event. Have you shared this proposal before us today with the director of the cemetery?

Not the director, but I interact with the I'm blanking on her name right now. And they're on our email list and everything like that.

I'm sorry?

I'm blanking on who I've dealt with at the cemetery. But I've met with the director several times, well, once. But I've dealt with not the director and I'm just blanking on what her name is right now.

Okay.

But they are on our email list.

Okay. Thank you for that. I think that's the only question I have for you. So Ms. Kennedy, can we add a notification to the cemetery when when they file when they file for a special event with off-site parking and, you know, they get shuttled up, can we file a notification that there's gonna be a large crowd there with

Something the city would do or Asking

the applicant.

Asking the applicant to

contact When they notify the city and go through the city process to get approval, was it two months in advance? Can we also condition it with them notifying the cemetery?

Yes. We can do that,

I believe. I think I think that would be a good idea. And, I don't know. Maybe maybe for the expanded tours too. But I'm concerned that there's no, you know, you say there haven't been any complaints. But we were involved with the process. So I think you know we should have a mechanism where complaints can be made if you know it could be that no one knows how to complain at this point.

I would not extend it to the expanded tours just because those are ongoing. They're just larger groups. And we don't hear about each one as they occur. The special events we are So going to be

think that could work. Because I would like to add that. Okay. And then are you two months in advance on the special events?

Yes, that's correct.

Okay, okay, good. Yeah, I think that's important. So and you did have, oh I know. Okay, Mr. Lindeman, I'm sorry. I'm going make you go up. I don't mean to do that but I'm just not organized that way. So you did when we were out on the site, you did have 800 people out there at one time.

Oh, yes.

Okay. Okay. That made me feel a lot better about the management of this when you said that there were 800 people out there.

And and and the lawn felt empty. I mean,

so Yeah. We It actually kind of looked empty in your pictures.

Oh, It

was like there was room for a lot more.

That shot was the only one going forward. You couldn't see it on the other side of the oak trees where there was a lot of other seating. But yeah, we worked with the Santa Barbara Symphony. They came out July 4. Jane Lynch, the actress, did the narration of it. And I think it was just overwhelmingly positive.

Good. Okay. Okay. I wanted to ask you a question on the parking management plan. The selection of off-site parking facilities subject to availability and will be required along with the provision of shuttle services as part of the special events rental agreement. So, and it stated that I think that you are working to secure letters of intent with various organizations like Four Seasons, Biltmore, Santa Barbara City College, Music Academy, the Hilton Resort, those were the ones that were mentioned here in the parking management plan. So have any of these letters of intent been secured at this point?

No, because part of the issue is we don't really know when the next ones are happening. So let me just give you a couple of examples. So when we are, let's just say having a private event, we had a company called Paycom come. And Paycom was I think they're based in Oklahoma. They came for their annual meeting which was at the Becara in Goleta.

So obviously everyone flew in and they loaded up on shuttles at the Becara and came out for basically a dinner event at Bella Squaredo, got back on the shuttles at the end of the evening and returned to the Becara. That's pretty standard. So any kind of private event really is people are coming to Santa Barbara, they're staying in a hotel, those shuttles are coming from those hotels. So let's just say you had a wedding. If anyone's dealt with weddings, you know that you usually have like a block of rooms.

The Baqarah is a really popular one. Before the Biltmore closed, that was always a great opportunity. Hopefully, knock on wood, the Biltmore will reopen before the end of the century. And we can it's very close to us and easy to shuttle. So when it's just part of any process for private special events.

From our standpoint when we do special events that are for ourselves like the July 4, We also had a piano concert that was also a special event. And in the piano concert, we contacted the Hilton Hotel. Hilton Hotel has they're over parked. Got more parking than they need. And they rented us spaces I think for twenty five dollars or something for the space. So we would not let anyone drive up or walk up. They had to board the shuttle at the Hilton Hotel. They had to park in the parking lot. Their parking was all validated when they left. They just, you know, they it was you know, they just had parking validated.

And was the parking part of your ticket going?

Absolutely, yes. Parking is we can't have a private event that's that large that does not have parking or else it would just Right. It wouldn't work. The best example though is really the July 4. So Santa Barbara Unified School District has a great program. It's called Facilitron. And they rent out all of their parking lots or a good number of their parking lots. I'm not sure if they're all rented out. And you can actually just go on Facilitron. You create an account and you can look at the availability of Santa Barbara High School, Santa Barbara Middle School, anything like that.

You know, we wouldn't use something out in San Marcos, but they're all just available online. You book them. You tell them which lots you want, how many spaces, you know, and I think Santa Barbara High School has three lots or something. Maybe they have four lots. I can't remember what they're all called. But you just say how many of these do you want? And you can even have them open the bathrooms for you for when people arrive. But obviously they have ADA parking. The San Barbara trolley has shuttle vans that have ADA parking or ADA assistance, basically wheelchair lifts. And so very simple.

Book those and we obviously book and arrange for parking before we ever announce or sell tickets for any type of event.

Okay. Thank you for that. Okay, I think. So the letters of intent then are secured at

It would be something that when okay, so let's say we're doing a fourth of July event. It would probably be more of a form letter for next year's fourth of July event. We would go to Facilitron, we would reserve the space. Facilitron pops out a form letter saying, hey, you're reserved for use of the Santa Barbara High School. Santa Barbara High School obviously is going to be closed on the July 4. That's why we accept that. Take that to Jessica and I think that should be enough for a letter of intent done two months in advance.

Okay. Okay. So, yeah. Thank you for that. Okay. And then I just, I think.

Chair Wiskom, I just want to also follow-up. Yeah, I'm not

the chair.

Oh, I'm sorry. Committee member Musgrom through the chair, sorry about that. But as far as for these special events, yes, this is something that we did really struggle with with the permitting. And that's why you have the conditions before you as written. Think over time we'll start to see repeat locations where the parking is.

So we're not having to reanalyze every single time at Ignazium. So, there will start to be sort of a list of the approved sites. As Jeremy alluded to, the ADA is very important from the site number one to then get to Bella Squardo. So, those are the certain things that we're looking at. And then, we're also just looking at if there's any other issues going on at the particular day of the special event. Like for example, is there a norm road closure for a triathlon that partially closes Cabrillo Boulevard for a certain time. So those are the other types of things that we'd be looking at in our review for these special events.

Okay, thank you for that. I was just thinking of Oh, I know. Okay. So I wasn't thinking of this question before, but on the form where you buy your tickets, I also am on I've been on a tour. I've paid for a tour like Commissioner DeLuccio said. So the actual box, we have to check all the things. Are you arriving by automobile? Are you doing Do you have in that if when you have a special event to sell a ticket, do you have do you need you need ADA accessibility?

Absolutely. So that's in the form That that's it's whether it's a special event or not. So let's say you're you're parking at Santa Barbara High School. We wanna know how many spaces are going to be used at Santa Barbara High School. So if you're saying you're arriving by bicycle, you're not coming to Bella Squadro. You're going to Santa Barbara High School. If you have an ADA placard, you're still going to Santa Barbara High School. We just want to know if

you You want can to know how many. Exactly. Okay. So that is in there already.

That is in there already.

That's cool. I'm very happy to hear that. Okay, good. And then I just wanted to make a comment and add something in, this is on page 14 of 55. This is in the conditions of approval. Under driveway visibility, exit property shall be constructed and maintained so that a pedestrian and I want to add or cyclists. There are tons of cyclists on Cabrillo. So I think we need to add that within 10 feet of the driveway is visible to the driver. Okay? Good? Okay. Good. And that's all I have. Thank you.

Thank you, Commissioner Wiskum. Vice Chair Boss.

Thank you, Chair. Just a clarification. I think from the materials, this has been operating as a quasi public facility since 2022, so about four years, correct? I think that's a question for staff, sorry.

Through the chair, yes, that's correct.

Okay. So, tell me how that works without a conditional use permit. How was that So

they did submit an application. I think it was 2020. So we've been working with them ongoing since 2020. So it's been a lot of back and forth trying to figure out because this is a very unique site. We don't have these kind of projects. What's needed especially for the parking and all the different levels of tours. And even though right now it seems kind of very well organized and simplified I think here. We had to go through a lot over time to kind of figure out all that. And it just took a lot of time to do that. We were aware that they were doing tours.

They had done special events which are it's a little gray area, but allowed as an owner of a residential property. You can do certain kinds of special events anyway without approvals. But with the tours, we understood that they were doing that, but we were working with them and trying to work out all the details, and it took a long time to do that. So Okay. We were we it's not like we would have an enforcement case because what we would at that point, we would say you need to submit an application, but they were in the application process. They were working with us back and forth throughout this whole time. So it just.

Depends Okay. Anybody with a residential property, they could start working with the city and they could be doing these activities on their residential property for four years.

Well, we don't recommend it.

Okay. Part of

it is That's without penalty. That's my concern or question, I guess.

Female And part of it is, you know, workload and just managing projects and priorities and that kind of thing as well on the other side.

Female Okay. So, think the answer is that we should not have had special events or these activities until we actually had the CUP in place.

Female I would say the tours, yes.

Okay.

Okay. Thank you. And then, also curious about the visitor serving and recreational facilities and coastal policies. I'm not sure I understand how lower cost visitor serving and recreational facilities intent is going to be met. So, maybe I didn't hear anything about prices or scholarships or anything like that.

Sure Amy Steinfeld I'm land use counsel for the foundation. Good afternoon commissioners and chair. So first I do want to address your previous question so this is one of the it's a very unique estate because it's actually a zone PUD so it has a different zoning designation. And as you know you heard Jeremy's been working very very closely with city staff to ensure that everything is done to avoid impacting any city resources. With regards to ticket prices you know we have heard some concerns that some people believe the current trip ticket prices are high, but we want the commissioners and public to really understand that this state requires significant ongoing maintenance due to the fact that it's a very old historic resource and we also have to ensure visitor safety.

In addition, the site, as you heard, is very constrained. There are restrictions that prevent any visitors from parking or walking along Cabrillo Boulevard for obvious reasons. So currently these costs make it financially infeasible to commit to any less expensive tours today. However, the foundation and one thing I wanted to point out, the foundation is fairly new if you look at some of our existing historic resources in this community so you have Lotus Land other estates so they're just in the process of developing additional tours in addition we heard COVID was a really big hit to this region as you know. So, but we do know any as you heard from Jeremy, the foundation remains committed to making the estate accessible to as many visitors as possible.

They will continue to host the local students and find opportunities, creative solutions to provide subsidized tours and other types of funding opportunities that will allow the public to access the estate. So one thing they're looking into and it just takes time is developing self guided tours, right? So as he mentioned, using some kind of device that would hopefully lower the price. Right now, docents are required. There's a very extensive training program for the docents.

So the foundation, as you know, is actively working on creative solutions, and we're excited to share these updates with you as we develop programs. This will be done through the website. And so we're just looking forward to this type of partnership with many additional organizations. You heard currently the foundation is working with many local different organizations in town that serve underserved children, example. So they'll continue to form these partnerships over time. But we do need the time to develop these programs. Thank you.

Thank you. Those are my questions.

Thank you Vice Chair Boss, Commissioner Barnwell.

Thank you Madam Chair. To Jessica. I don't know if this can be done. I'm just bringing it up. But I understand there's not going to be a lot of private cars going up there. Many of them are going to be shuttles. So there may be shuttles that have gone up there before and they know actually how to get there. I know we have we want to keep everything low key, right? We're not going to put up giant signs anywhere. But the entrance to that is hard to find.

And I don't know exactly if there is any traffic engineering way for certain hours or certain times. But I just wanna plant that seed. Okay? Because it it for me even as a native, it's hard to find that. And because of the traffic that's behind you when you're coming down Cabrillo Boulevard, I wouldn't want anything to happen, you know, where somebody's slamming on the brakes or they're backing up or doing something like that.

Maybe that comes out in the maps and the plannings and everything else that you give to these various drivers. My second question is the Chumash. I know there's an archaeological site there. And I also know that the Chumash sites are like super secret. Nobody knows where they are and you don't mark them out. But I don't think I saw a lot of discussion in this report that the Chumash had been consulted and brought in on this. So how did that work? Ms. Kennedy are you the one that answers that question?

Through the chair, we did not consult the tribes for this project.

Is there some reason they weren't included since there was, there's such a very, very historically important site on the property? Mr. Linderman.

Yes. Up until we worked very closely with the San Yez Band of Chumash. Particularly Sam Cohen, who unfortunately has left the San Yez Band and he's now with the Morongo Band. But yes, they've been sponsors. I've been keeping them very much up to speed with everything. Most of your requirements are triggered when you have any sort of disturbance in the ground. So because this project is just a use project, it's not, we're not building a building, we're not doing anything like that. When the time comes, of course, you're going have observers up there, you're going to have all the documentation, all that kind of stuff. But it's really, it's when you're actually building a building that that becomes a

Okay, thank you. Well, just want to be sure they're not left out in any future discussion. Thank you, Madam And

Commissioner Barnwell, if you wanted me to address about the special events. I think, yeah, as we start, we have not reviewed any special event yet for this property. But I do agree that there, yes, should be some signage or something maybe present. I think with the Bella Squadro Foundation, it really just comes down to operations and just when I've been to the the site, there is somebody to meet us there in the little golf cart. There are certain ways.

And I think it also depends on the shuttle service if they're local to Santa Barbara. If they're not, then probably extra measures. But I do see that as an operational thing that Bella Squadro could handle.

Thank you. Mr. Levy.

If you don't mind, yeah. So, the July 4, another great example. So, Santa Barbara Trolley, they're obviously a local company. We worked with them. And we brought all of their drivers up well before the event. We did dry runs in the year with me. The other preferred vendor that we use is LL Transportation. They know the site well. They've driven up and back several times. And yeah, again, if we ever had any kind of new vendor helping us with these things, we would of course do, you know, late evening, you know, dry runs. I mean, Cabrillo is very dead after about, you know, 05:00. Yeah.

Thank you very much. Appreciate, madam chair.

Through the chair, I I just wanted to also just confirm that what mister Lindeman said about the archaeology. So when we do have a project and they come forward with a building perhaps for restrooms, it is our standard procedure to have archaeology reviewed, cultural resources either request a report or depending on what level monitoring and such like that. So that's definitely part of the process. And this type of CUP, we didn't feel that that was necessary.

Well

As part of our environmental review.

Thank you. You've just opened up a topic that I didn't want to bring up. But sometimes just saying they're not part of it. Then the reader goes, oh well everybody knows that the Chumash is part of it, but they aren't part of this one. And you know, so that the base has been covered. But because there was no reference to it here, that is why I asked my question. But a simple reference of yes it's inapplicable would be, would have been to answer the question. Is what I'm saying. But thank you. I really appreciate the thorough answer.

Thank you Commissioner Barnwell. Commissioner Peterson.

Thank you, manager. And thank you, to staff and to the applicant for being here today. The visuals, the staff packet, very, very thorough. I was a history major. So to to hear that was was really good. I'm curious, how much does a tour cost right now?

Thank you, Madam Chair. So your typical tours, which are docent led, are currently $100 apiece. Now we have had many, or not many, but we've been developing special events where we have subsidized prices. The July 4 event for example was $25 apiece. We partnered with Pacific Pride Foundation because it was, long story short, a book written about some of the Clark family and their association with early 20s and 30s LBTQ plus communities.

And as a result, we had tickets that were offered and sold by Pacific Pride and they were again $25 It's really kind of a case by case basis when you get to that because you are needing to fundraise and essentially cover the cost of bringing in a valet service for those types of events. In addition to that, school children so far have all been free. We've had Santa Barbara, they bring up this I mean they've had the largest school bus that they have, I think, up on property. We bring classrooms up. For 80 kids. Exactly. So, yeah. And those are free.

Thank you. Yes, so in your letter to us today, you talked about educational activities, and these these examples being provided free of charge. One of the things when I think about foundations or museums, one of the things that I appreciate so much about say, Santa Barbara Museum of Art is that students can always access their facilities free of charge. And so I know you're still working on how you're going to develop those partnerships with local educational organizations, but is there anything more besides can you speak a little bit more about how you're going to develop those partnerships?

So again, I think really what you're having is our next step is going to be the self guided tour. And that's going to really free up a lot of those opportunities. Your staff, as we pointed out, it's not a facility that's located downtown Santa Barbara where you can walk up to at a moment's notice, present your student ID and move forward. Everything requires going through a reservation system, again much like Lotus Land, the Botanical Garden, stuff like that. So it would be a lot of We are working on that.

I mean there's been programs that we've looked at with having EBT cardholders somehow input their information. We're not there yet, but it's definitely something that when we are back here for permanent buildings and so forth, we'll be able to say those programs are up and running.

So the idea is that self guided tours will lower prices?

It certainly will lower prices. A good example that I bring up is Lotus Land. So Lotus Land, I think, well for years Lotus Land you had to make your reservations over the phone. And I think I heard at one point that each reservation took about eight minutes of a phone conversation to make a reservation at Lotus Land. All of Lotus Land's tours for up until very recently were docent led tours.

And I think those tours were all $80 They have gone down in price to $60 because they have been able to open up and do self guided tours. So again, Lotus Land has been operating for twenty years. We're still very much in our infancy. We will get there with all of those programs.

And my final question on this, thank you for that. So you touched a little bit on this. I've heard a lot about y'all reaching out to organizations to provide that free or reduced cost. But what I'm curious about is, you hinted at this, will groups or individuals be able to come to you directly and ask for it? When someone's making a reservation, say whatever that Absolutely. Category

Again, we're just not there yet, but you're going to have, again, the EBT card is probably the best example that has a functioning system where you've actually got someone who is a low income individual being able to come up with that reduced rate.

I appreciate your thinking about that. Those are my questions.

Thank you Commissioner Peterson. Commissioner Balkhy.

Jeremy, come back up. Then my actual line of questioning was pretty much the same as Benjamin's question. Lotus Land is a subscriber to Museums for All, which is an EBT, or would that be something you would consider?

Oh absolutely. And we're working on that. Again, it's getting the you know, getting that built into the website so that you know, you have the ability to enter in that EBT card, be verified on the spot and pay the lower rate. We just our website is not there yet. I guess it was actually Kathy brought this up the other day and we were thinking about, well, I guess we could maybe charge full price and then if you came with your EBT card, we could give you some sort of a cash refund.

But that just kind of opens up some problems. Websites aren't cheap to build, they're not cheap to maintain, and they're not cheap to have programs. So again, we will get there. Certainly going to get there by the time we have to come back to you with an actual building site and we hopefully allay all those fears at that time. But yes.

Thank you. That's the only question I have.

Thank you, Commissioner Balki. Commissioner DeLuccio?

I just have a follow-up question about the parking situation. Jessica, It says extended tour valet parking, it says total vehicle is 59. And does that include the employee parking within the 59? So it would be fifty nine minuteus the eight would be 51? I think he's shaking his head today.

Yes. Yes, it is included. It would assume for the 59, 50 visitor and nine employees.

And then just another follow-up question. If they have special events, you you to do off-site parking. But what if it's a small special event under, you know, that's, there's parking on-site. How do you

Well then it would just be an expanded tour.

Oh, you're going to deal with it as an expanded tour. Exactly. Exactly. Okay. Thank you.

Yeah, that's a great question. I just want to mention, I was just present at their holiday event, which was an expanded tour that was about 150 people. And you pulled in through the service entrance. It was very smooth because of the flow of the driveway and the roads within. And the valet was there to quickly get all of the cars off-site. There was no line. There was no backup on Cabrillo. I was extremely impressed with the way that the foundation handled these type of small events.

Well, I went to the book signing, and I that was considered an event, I gather. And they had valet parking on-site. I just want you to know that. And there were probably 150 people there too. So that's why I was asking that question. That was a special event. And yet, we did talk on-site. And it did go very smoothly. Know, but I just want to call that out.

Thank you.

I think it's important to know that.

Thank you, Commissioner DeLucia. Commissioner Obiscom.

Thank you Madam Chair. I just have a follow-up question Mr. Lindeman. The shuttles that go up and drop people off, how many people do they hold?

It depends. So I think Santa Barbara trolley is 44. But you know it's 40 something. I'm not quite sure. LL transportation operates a variety of shuttles. I think the smallest is 20, the largest is 30 or so.

Can you get a regular sized bus up there?

Oh yes.

You can. And have you

done that? We brought a school bus up there.

Okay. Oh that's right. You did. Yes. So why is there nothing in this about bus parking? We don't have anything in the plan. Do we about bus parking?

Well, the buses. Yes.

There is a plan to show where the bus parking and shuttle parking is.

Oh, I missed that. Okay. So the large buses can go up there.

Let me just give you another quick example. So okay, you're coming to the piano concert, the three fifty, 400 person piano concert. I'm just making this up. The gates open at 1PM. The performance is at 02:00. The performance ends at 03:00. So those shuttles in that interim when you're moving people up at the beginning and you're moving people out at the end, the shuttles are just going back to either their home base or their, yeah, just stacked in the parking.

Okay.

Yeah.

Okay. I didn't yeah. I was think missed

They're they're not going down to the street and parking on the city street. That's what I'm saying.

Yeah. Well, we know that. So okay. Miss Kennedy, you looking for something or not? No. There's So there is a place to park buses up there, big buses.

Yes, and we do show how they are able to maneuver on the the kind of blow up parking lot areas. There's a section down Parking Lot 6 which is by the ocean down there. How they're able to the buses are able to maneuver. They tested all

that. Missed that in that. Okay.

So, yeah, the buses need to be able to access the site. We need to show maneuverability. Will some buses be parked at the site during the event? Potentially, but the service of the buses are to be shuttling. So and we anticipate probably multiple shuttles. A school bus for example would be maybe a one stop shop, but depending upon timing that school bus might be used for something else in the interim. So it's meant to be flexible. And just know that when they're running a special event, they cannot have their standard tours and standard tours or their expanded tours.

They can't double up in other Yeah. Okay. And and does the fire department need to look at this at all or have they?

Yes. They were part of the land development review team

this Great. Okay. Thank you.

Thank you Commissioner Wiscombe. Commissioner Peterson.

One other question. Do you have, like, any kind of expected do you have a date in mind, a year in mind when you could theoretically be in museums for all?

You know, I think eighteen months, twenty four months probably. That's just, you know, it's again, it's the expense of building that into the website and all that fun stuff. So that's a certainly by the time that we return to you, you know, with our deadline, that should be up and running.

Okay. So thank you. Thank

you. All right. I do not have any questions. Thank you to my fellow commissioners for their deliberate questions. I will now go to comments. Would anybody like to start? Commissioner Barnwell.

Thank you, madam chair. Mister Lindeman, very good explanation of everything that you're doing. I appreciate the dry wit of mister Whelan referencing the, parking issues that will no longer be bothering us in about twenty years because nobody's gonna be driving. And also the quiet neighbors. I like that. I wanna echo in my comments my esteemed commissioner Mr. Peterson, and also those of Mr. Sarvis. I don't think you can get this information out into the general public too soon. I think this needs to get out there as quickly as possible.

I consider myself somewhat savvy in knowing what's going on in the community and that is a black hole for me in terms of what's going on there and how do you get sign up and what are the groups, etcetera. I also know from my experience on non profits that one of the best ways to get donors is to have them know who you are. And one of the best ways to do that is to get those tours going, particularly probably through the schools. And the kids are gonna come home and say, mom, we just did this cool thing. And there's gonna be this rolling thunder about what's going on there.

Because in everyone's mind in Santa Barbara, it's a mystery. It really is a mystery. And it shouldn't be. I want to thank you for the tour. The tour was spectacular. And I think everybody should see that. And get a feeling for the history and etcetera, etcetera. But, so I would, I would, if I could make anything happen, it would be kind of like what mister Peterson said, which is, man, get this out there. Know, get this rolling. Get the pub, get the less expensive seats and the wider outreach. Because I believe your fundraising efforts will triple if that sort of thing happens. But again, thank you. I know you've got a lot of problems up there, a lot of restrictions. I really appreciate the tour. Thank you very much for today.

And also to the staff for all the hard work that you've done. Thank you very much. I'm in favor of this 100%.

Thank you very much, commissioner Barnwell. Commissioner Peterson.

I hadn't hit my button, but I'm happy to

Oh.

Okay.

Sorry. It was on here.

Yeah. I can do it. So my my thoughts are I'm generally supportive of this. I was a history major. I love history.

I love access to history. I think one of the things that makes people feel connected to the civic life of this place is to be able to access those spaces that we all have come to cherish. And this is certainly one of those, even if it's private, there was a public element to it. And I appreciate your the the private foundation wanting to provide this stunning piece of property, at least make it a bit more accessible. I would be in favor, and I don't know if we how we would support if my fellow commissioners would support this, putting some kind of thing in the conditions that say, hey.

Maybe two years or whatever set time, they need to be part of museums for all. I just think that that's in light of the public aspect of this and the permit we may be providing, I think that's important.

Okay. Thank you, Commissioner Peterson, if other folks wanna weigh in on his thoughts as we continue. And sorry for putting you on the spot. Was just next on my list. Commissioner Bauke.

Actually, that was one of the few comments I had. Other than this was very well thought out, and thank you for your application, and staff, thank you for your hard work on this one, because this particular property is very site constrained. And finding that right balance of access to the public and dealing with the circulation issues and also the preservation of the property is very, very important. And it is very much a fine line and balancing act that you're you're trying to do. And my only thought was like, as to being consistent with the coastal policies and our coastal land use plan, some kind of condition and language as to some time frame to have museums for all be, or it's equivalent, you know, because there are others, be part of this historic resource.

It'd be very important, I think, for the community as a whole. So, was what I was going to mention. Thank you.

Thank you, Commissioner Balki. Commissioner DeLucia.

Okay. Thank you. Yeah, I'm very supportive of this conditional use permit. And actually, I agree with part of museums' law if we can put some kind of condition into that. And also, I just want to remove the times here. It has tour times. I'd rather just leave it they have like seven times. I'd rather just say up to seven tours a day instead of putting specific times in here because I don't think it's just too restrictive. And also Pacific, I know you've, they've done some outreach events. I know Pacific prior they did an event with and that was I believe because William Andrews Clark Junior actually was a son of William Clark and he was he has some gay relationships.

So I think that was a connection there, the history. And the other thing is, I'm not clear, I'm assuming that on occasion when a shuttle bus goes up there or bus, sometimes they are parked on-site. Is that true? Can be parked on-site for extended, expanded events and special events? I wasn't clear about that. And it's really not written into the conditions in any way.

So, there space for parking shuttle buses on-site. It would mostly really steep. We could put that in there and just say they could be parked on-site. But shuttles are usually shuttling people to and fro and don't need to be parked on-site. Think, you know, an example would be, again, the school district might, be in the middle of the day, you're not moving kids to and from school, but you've got a special school field trip coming out. The bus, certainly there's parking spaces for that bus if they don't need the bus to go back to their main lot.

Yeah, I'm amenable to that if you're not using it for other parking spaces. I don't see an issue with the bus being parked up there. And again, I'm very supportive of this and I think, and actually I've seen this on several occasions when we went on our tour and I've also seen it when I went to a And special I have confidence that things will continue to move smoothly because the day I went there was a lot going on and it was just so well And I just want to give you congratulations on that. And thank you for everything you've done on this. And you've stuck with this for so many years.

And finally it's coming together. And again, hopefully it will be opened up to a lot more people and at a reasonable rate at times. So thank you.

Thank you, Commissioner DeLuccio. Commissioner Wiskum?

Thank you, Madam Chair. I echo my fellow commissioners comments. You for the site visit and thank you Ms. Kennedy for what might be your last thorough staff report. But I think we're making great progress.

I can certainly support the Museums for All or an equivalent. I think that's important to put or an equivalent in there. And I would like under special events, and I think this would be on page eight somewhere under special events and a requirement to notify the cemetery. Is it do we they notify you, the city sixty days in advance? Is that what it says?

So just the same notification as what the city gets. And the city should have on its record who the person who gets the notification at the cemetery. Okay. And add the cyclist comment pedestrian or cyclist on page 14 the dock of the 14 of 55 in the CFA. And I wanted to, I talked to Mr.

Lindeman a little bit about this at the site visit and you can kind of see where this commission goes. But I think I really appreciate former Superintendent Sarvis's comments about the educational opportunities and I know you'll continue to pursue that. Thank you, thumbs up there. Mr. And Lindeman you said I think creative solutions for more subsidized tours.

And that's really what we need. It's a quasi public facility but it's here for the community and I think we need to do all we can to give an opportunity to as many community members as possible to actually enjoy the facility. So I like the work towards the no dose and lead tours. I think that's that's a good one. I think it's gonna take a lot of cameras. You don't want anyone stealing forks. Right?

There is nothing cheap out there. Yeah. Or any of those.

Yeah. That's but it's either cameras or bodies, one or the other. But there's a lot of small smaller rooms out there. They're not small but they're there's a lot of rooms. So so I think the security is really important.

And I love the partnership with the Santa Barbara Historical Museum and I hope that continues and and with other organizations. The the only thing I'll say about Lotus Land is it's outside. And this is inside. So the the you know, it's a little bit different in terms of of you know how you control people and make it work. But but I think we are we are tasked up here today with issuing a coastal development permit and lower cost visitor serving uses are absolutely part of the as commissioner or vice chair boss said are absolutely part of of that in in our local local plan and also in the coastal act.

So so I think that's aiming towards that goal is is really important. And also continuing the the events that you have. I it's just you know, and hopefully it'll expand to weddings and things, private events that that you know earn earn you nice sums of money. And I think Commissioner Barnwell was absolutely right. You start bringing in more people and I'm not gonna say you're gonna triple your contributions because yeah I know you said triple.

But you're gonna bring in I think a lot more money. People are are going to fall in love with the facility and say gee I have to give them something. So those are my comments I can support this. And with a few modifications. And including Commissioner DeLuccio's one about taking out the times. So, thank you.

Thank you Commissioner Wiskum. And I just want to echo my fellow commissioner's comments. I really appreciate the work that staff did. We're very sad to see Ms. Kennedy at at her her last hearing. And thank you for the time and taking me on the site tour. Really appreciate it. It's obviously a beautiful, estate, and I think that some of the recommendations made by the commission are good additions. So with that, if there's no further comments, would someone like to make a motion? Surprise, surprise, Commissioner Wiskum.

Okay. So help me out here if we get everything in here. So we really want to add a condition for museums for all or equivalent. Do we want to do it in two years or four years?

Two years.

Two. Okay. Two years. So within twenty four months of the date of this conditional use permit. If you could add a condition, I don't know where it's going go. You'll figure it out I guess. And we want to add a condition about notification to the cemetery for special events sixty days in advance. And also the person that, yes, Miss Grant. Yeah.

Oh, commissioner Wiskomm, and when the planning commission's ready, we could, go through, the suggested edits from what we're

hearing as a summary. Oh, okay. Well, I'm supposed to be making the motions. So do you wanna do why don't you do the suggested edits and then I don't have to bumble my way through it? So

let's see. Gonna go in order and Are you

in the are you in the c of a?

Yes. Okay. So the Commissioner Wiskum, I'm also looking for your opinion, but the for we do have a return date for the applicant tied to the accessible ramps?

That's four years, right?

For four years, yes. And so did you want on that particular one or a supplemental to add about the Museums for All or like? I'm hearing from my fellow commissioners two years on that.

Two years.

Yeah. Yeah. So I think I think in that, you know, staff check-in two years to make sure that's been accomplished or maybe mister Lindeman can notify the staff, city staff that that has been done.

To miss Kennedy, through the chair, would recommend the museum for all or equivalent within two years be placed into the general condition section g. We'll have to renumber but it could go in as a new number two and then all subsequent numbers would therefore after be renumbered.

Okay.

So property operations and parking standards, is that where you're putting that? Compliance?

Commissioner was come through the chair. No, it would be a new number two. Number two, property operations and parking standards would then become number three.

Oh, so okay. So okay, I get it. So it's got its own section after compliance with requirements.

That's correct.

Okay. That's good. Okay. And then the Yes. I'm sorry. Go ahead.

So that's great. And then we have for condition of approval d one a. It's the driver visibility to add cyclist

Oh, right.

Yes. Next to pedestrian. And the there is a comment about under the property operations and parking standards, which is currently I know we just renumbered, but g one two to remove the tour times. So that is a removal of three a I number one.

Right. Except we could just say tours to be scheduled.

I think number two captures the maybe the time period.

Yeah. But if you just change number one to the number of tours. They've got one, two, three. How many tours do

It's you seven. So the I Maximum Maximum seven seven tours. So it does capture that. So I think that the language under number one could be struck.

Okay. Well, where does it say how many tours a day then?

At three AI. Oh god.

It's giving me

Right above that.

Maximum of seven standard tours may be scheduled each day.

Oh, good.

Okay. Seven days.

It's already in Okay. So strike number one and then renumber Okay. All the

And then under, let's see, page eight of the conditions or in the bottom right hand corner, page 18 of 55. Under special events, the c special events number three where we have all special events shall be required to provide off-site parking with the shuttle service provided to and from the project site. We could add another sentence that the shuttles may temporarily park on-site. Okay. And then under the when the owner shall submit, it's a sorry.

Same same page eight of 11 or 18 of 55. The see special events number four, there was a request to notify the cemetery. I think with the the shall request approval from the city planner a minimum of two months in advance of the special event and must provide the following information. We can add a new number here. I guess maybe number five that says proof of note of that the cemetery was contacted about said special event.

Right. Okay.

And that proof would be a letter or an email just showing between the Los Guertos Foundation and the cemetery Right. Provided for us on record.

Okay. Yeah. That's good. And that's that's pretty much it, isn't it? Mhmm. I think that's

I'll second the motion. That's I have Yeah.

Well, I have to actually make the recommended motion too, which I haven't done yet because we got all the special conditions. Are are you through? I think you covered everything.

Yes. We believe so. So

I move that we approve the project, make the findings for the interior setback modification, coastal development permit, conditional use permit with some changes, revisions, and CEQA determination subject to the conditions of approval in Exhibit A of the staff report. How did I do?

And I'll second your motion.

Thank you. Can we please have roll call?

Excuse me. Can we discuss the motion, Madam Chair?

Yes.

I missed this, guess, but did you say that the ADA will not be finished for four years? What what does that mean?

There is a temporary ramp that was required to be installed.

The infamous silver ramp made of aluminum. That one. Right.

But But it the during the reviews and for building and safety, it was a request for a permanent ramp. And and so we have assigned a time for when that said ramp should come in back into our permit process.

Okay. But we do have ADA access. We're not talking we're talking about a permanent ADA

access. Correct.

Okay. Is the word permit Yeah. Used

It's for your so it does say so it's also, as Ms. Kennedy just alluded to, it proposes permanent restrooms and permanent accessible ramps.

Thank you very much. Thank you, ma'am.

Thank you. Can we please have roll call?

Thank you, Chair Wardlow. I'll begin with Commissioner Wiskum. Yes. Commissioner Barnwell. Yes. Commissioner Peterson. Yes. Commissioner Balkhy.

Yes.

Commissioner Delugio.

Yes.

Vice Chair Boss. No. And Chair Wardlow. Yes. Vice Chair Boss, would you like to provide a reason?

Sure. First of all, I understand and appreciate that the foundation has been working with the city. I do have a concern about this setting a precedent for others to operate outside of a CUP. And second, despite being in full operation for four years, the project is not yet consistent with Coastal Act policies from my perspective, specifically the lower cost visitor and recreational facilities, which are to be protected, encouraged, and provided. And I appreciate the addition in the conditions of approval, but it's been four years. So, I'm concerned about that time that it has not happened yet. Thank you.

All right. Thank you all very much for the presentation and for staff's time and for the applicant's time. With that, I believe this action is subject to a ten calendar day appeal. And with that, we will move on to the administrative portion of our agenda. So thank you all very much. Does anybody have any committee or liaison reports?

I have a steering staff hearing officer report Please

go ahead.

There was a meeting yesterday. I did watch it. I fell asleep and woke up, but I did get through it. 110 To 150 South Locumbria Road, Tess Harris is the hearing officer. She approved a front setback modification for a previously approved drive through car wash.

That's on Montgomery where the gas station in the mini market is. And there's a car wash there now that's going to open. So it may have come before this commission at one point, but they needed a modification because the car wash is going have some new equipment, which needed that modification in order to fit in. Then there was five thirty three East Mitchell, Torrena, and she approved a three year time extension for a tentative subdivision map, which was approved by the Planning Commission in December 2022. That was a condominium for six units, and there were two existing units already.

There were rentals, and they were going to put it all together and make eight condominium units out of it. It was through the AUD process. And it has medical building there as well. 533 East Mitchell Terrena. It was a vacant lot, and there was a building next to it. It's a medical building and there were two units and they were going tie it all together and make eight units of AUD. So that was also approved. And then there's another one for a street I never heard of. 4100 R I L L A, 0 R I R I Yeah, La Del Mar. It's in the coastal zone.

They have the duplex. It's a duplex exterior improvement. And they're going to convert the garage. You're not going to like this to a one hotel unit. And in the coastal zone in that area, don't permit you that's the way it goes. Currently, it's not permitted to be made into a residential unit. Is that correct? And so that was an approval for an open yard modification and a coastal development permit. So within ten calendar days of yesterday, this is all can be appealed to the Planning Commission, any of these projects.

Thank you, Commissioner De La Chien. You're welcome. Any other commissioner updates? All right. With that, is now 02:52. That concludes our 12/11/2025 planning commission hearing. Our next hearing is tentatively scheduled for December 18. Thank you all very much, and have a beautiful day.