Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. so so Thank you. Thank you.

Good afternoon. It's 1 p.m. We like to start on time around here. So we're going to call the meeting to order. And of this City of Santa Barbara Planning Commission, I've got to remember what city I'm in. for Thursday, September 3rd. And Ms. Common, can you please give us a roll call?

Thank you, Vice Chair DiLuccio. I'll begin with Vice Chair DiLuccio.

Here.

Commissioner Barnwell.

Here.

Commissioner Bauke. Here. Commissioner Peterson.

Here.

And Commissioner Wiscombe. Here. We have a quorum. Thank you.

Thank you. We'll move on to preliminary matters. Do we have any requests for continuances, withdrawals, postponements, or addition of ex-agenda items?

Thank you, Chair DiLuccio. We do not.

I have an announcement in appeals.

Thank you, Chair DiLuccio. We do have one announcement I just want to bring to the Commission and public's attention, that the next September 10th meeting is canceled, and then the following meeting, September 17th, will be a special meeting in the time that it starts. So the regular agenda will be canceled. We'll have a special lunch meeting at 12.30, and then we'll have a special regular agenda item starting at 3 o'clock.

Interesting. So 12.30 and 3.

Correct.

Okay, excellent. So then we'll move on to review and consideration and action of the following draft planning commission meetings, minutes, and resolutions. August 13th planning commission minutes, and we also had a resolution on Hot Springs Road, and then we'll also... move August 20th Planning Commission minutes. But before we do that, Ms. Carmen, do we have any comments from members of the public on the minutes?

At this time, I don't have any speaker slips or public comment submissions on the minutes.

Terrific. So why don't we break the minutes up? Let's start with August 13th Planning Commission minutes and the resolution from August 13th for 1 Hot Springs Road. Are there any comments on the minutes?

Yes, Mr. Chair. I abstain from this. I wasn't here at that meeting.

Okay. Okay, does somebody want to move the minutes and the resolution? I'll move. I'll second. Okay. Give a roll call, please.

Thank you. I'll begin with Commissioner Bauke.

Yes.

Commissioner Peterson.

Yes.

Commissioner Barnwell. Abstain. Correct. Commissioner Wiscombe. Yes. And Vice Chair DeLuccio.

Yes.

Motion passes. Thank you.

Thank you. Mr. Chair, that isn't an abstention. I wasn't here, so I don't vote abstain pro or con. I just wasn't here. I'm not included in that count. Thank you.

It would be an abstention. It's an abstention. It's an abstention.

I... Well, he didn't vote on it, and he wasn't present.

We have these little Robert's Rules of Order differences, but thank you. Okay, thank you, legal counsel.

Let's move on to the August 20th Planning Commission minutes, and any comments on these minutes? I know you were here for that. Did you want to move those minutes?

Yes, I would love to move those minutes. Thank you. Okay.

Who would like to second that? I'll second. Okay. Can we have a roll call, please?

Thank you. I'll begin with Commissioner Burnwell.

Yes.

Commissioner Wiscombe.

Yes.

Commissioner Bauke.

Yes.

Commissioner Peterson.

Yes.

And Vice Chair DiLeggio.

Yes.

Motion passes.

Thank you. Thank you. So let's move on at this time for public comment for items not on the agenda today, but under the Planning Commission agenda. jurisdiction. Do you have any comments in the public? Did I get that word out right? I think I did.

Thank you, Chair DiLuccio. At this time, I don't have any speaker slips for in-person public comment under general. But if anyone in the audience would like to speak under general, you can approach the podium at this time. And I would also just like to remind the audience that if you want to speak on a specific item on today's agenda, you can fill out a speaker slip on the little clipboard at the back of the room. You can bring it up to me, and I will call your name under that item. but since nobody is approaching the podium, we don't have any participants online with us. I will just acknowledge that we received multiple submissions from Onalisa Hoods and give it back to you.

Okay, thank you. So we can move on to the item of the day, 33 East Canamadillo Street, Liberero Theater. This is discretionary applications under consideration for the Planning Commission to hear today. One's an exception to the height limits to allow a community benefit project to exceed the 45-foot height limit. And then we have a development permit to allow the construction of 9,957 square feet of net new non-residential development. And also, we may need to make the finding that a CEQA determination that the project is exempt from further environmental review. So I think I covered that. Why don't we move on to Kerry Ernest, please. You want to give us a staff report?

Yes, thank you chair de Lucio and good afternoon commissioners My name is Carly Ernest associate planner with the planning division and I'll be giving the staff presentation for the proposed project at the libero theater Located at 33 East Cana Perdido Street and the the project is proposing a three-story addition at the rear that requires planning commission approval of a development plan and height exception and Starting with the vicinity map, the project site is located at the corner of Anacapa Street and East Canem Perdido Street. It is also bounded on the north and partly on the west by city parking lot number nine. The property is within the downtown neighborhood as defined by the land use element of the city's general plan. The land use designation of the site is commercial, high density residential, and the associated zone district is CG or the commercial general zone. For some background, the Libero Theater is a historic performing arts theater that has provided access to the arts, education, and community programming for more than 150 years. It is the oldest continuously operating theater in California and the fourth oldest performing arts theater in the country. The original opera house was replaced in 1924 by the current theater, designed by George Washington Smith and Luta Maria Riggs in a Spanish colonial revival style. In 1981, the Libero Theater was designated a city landmark and is considered a historic resource. The theater is operated by the Libero Theater Foundation, and the goal of the project is to enhance the theater's ability to serve the community by providing necessary upgrades and modernization while preserving its historic character and continuing to attract world-class artists. To summarize the project, the proposal is to demolish the existing rehearsal hall and courtyard at the rear of the theater, Construct a new three-story addition on the theater's rear elevation, including a rooftop terrace. There are minor tenant improvements to the existing basement and scene shop building that are proposed. There would be new front entry courtyards from the Libero Paseo and public improvements along both Anacapa Street and Keenan Perdido Street. To run through the plans, here's the proposed site plan that shows the new addition at the rear of the theater in gray. There are no changes to the front of the theater or further renovations to the existing theater except for expanded fire sprinkler coverage. To construct the addition, the rehearsal hall and courtyard in the rear would be demolished and these elements were evaluated in the phase two historical resources report that found they lack the architectural significance and character defining features of the main theater building. So the removal of these elements would not prevent the Levero from conveying its historical significance and architectural merit. There are site improvements proposed to create a new courtyard entry from the Levero Paseo, which I've pointed out here. And this includes new site walls, landscaping, accessibility upgrades, and a pedestrian pathway wrapping around the addition to Anacapa Street. So circled in red is that new courtyard area with the pedestrian pathway to Anacapa Street. with that red arrow there. The public improvements that are required along both frontages include a new accessible passenger loading zone on Cannon Perdido, an accessible ramp at the intersection, and portions of new sidewalk and driveway modifications along Anacapa Street. And just to run through the floor plans, here's the basement floor plan. The darker gray area is the area of expanded basement, and the lighter gray is the existing basement to be renovated. The basement would provide the back of house functions, including storage, wardrobe, and laundry. Same for the first floor. The area of addition is again shown in gray, and more back of house on the first floor, including the backstage office and storage areas. The second floor plan is where the banquet hall is located, also a service bar, catering kitchen, and circulation elements. And third floor is the bar and lounge area, rooftop terrace, restrooms, and mechanical equipment that would be screened. And to run through the elevations, here's the east elevation, so the view from Anacapa Street, and the addition is circled in red here. This is the west elevation. So the view from Libero Paseo, if you envision entering off Canon Perdido Street and walking along the west side of the theater, addition is circled in red. And this is where the new courtyard areas and entry into the building addition are proposed. And here's the north elevation showing the addition. So this is the view from City parking lot 9, if you were standing in the entry and exit ways, looking towards the theater. And here's another north elevation, this time including the proposed site wall along the north property line, circled there. This new site wall varies in height from about 8 to 10 feet. And there was a previous opening along this property line that allowed a continuous paseo through the Libero property and across the parking lot towards U.S. Bank. Here's a photo that shows that existing condition with the opening and Paseo crossing the parking lot. This site wall is proposed in order to comply with the building and fire code exiting requirements for the addition and would effectively close off this Paseo connection. And I'll touch on that more later on in this presentation. The discretionary applications under your purview today include an exception to height limitations to allow a community benefit project to exceed the 45 height height limit in the CG zone, a development plan to allow the construction of 9,957 square feet of net new non-residential floor area, and a CEQA determination that the project is categorically exempt from further environmental review. For the high exception, the addition is proposed at 47 feet, 10 inches. So the request is for an additional two feet, 10 inches above the maximum height community benefit projects may propose up to 60 feet in height. If the required findings can be made by the planning commission finding a is that the applicant has adequately demonstrated a need for the project to exceed 45 feet. Sorry, exceed 45 feet in height that is related to the project's benefit to the community. Finding B is that the project will be exemplary in design. Finding C is regarding livability. Finding D is sensitivity to context and that the project design will complement the setting and character of neighboring properties with the sensitivity to adjacent historic resources. And here are renderings of the addition that help demonstrate the height relative to the existing theater and fly tower. This rendering view on the left is from Anacapa Street, and then on the right is more of an aerial view from above. So regarding finding A, staff found that this finding can be made because the addition is directly related to the project's community benefit because it will enhance the theater's ability to serve the community. For finding B, this finding can be made because of the positive comments from the Historic Landmarks Commission and their indication that the project compatibility findings have generally been met. Finding C, since this project does not include residential units, considerations to livability are not applicable and this finding can be made. And for finding D, the project has undergone extensive design review and HLC found the addition compatible with the city landmark and surrounding context and character of the El Pueblo Viejo district. And the phase two historic report also concluded the proposed changes are in conformance with the Secretary of Interior standards. The other discretionary application under your purview today is a development plan for the 9,957 square feet of net new non-residential floor area. The Planning Commission is the review authority for development plans for projects requesting more than 3,000 square feet of new floor area. Non-residential development is regulated by the city's non-residential growth management ordinance and requires that floor area be allocated from one or more development category and that the project be consistent with the city's traffic management strategy. For the libero, the project received its community benefit designation and floor area allocation from city council on June 17th, 2025. The project would utilize floor area from the community benefit category, demolition credit, as well as small and minor addition categories to construct the proposed addition. Projects must also be consistent with the city's traffic management strategy. The project is consistent with this because it utilizes available floor area within the downtown development area and will not result in a project-specific traffic effect. To approve a development plan, the Planning Commission must make the required findings. Finding A is that the project complies with the zoning ordinance. This finding can be made because the project complies with Title 30 in the city's non-residential growth management program. Finding B is that the project is consistent with the principles of sound community planning. Staff found that this finding can be made because the project is consistent with a number of guiding principles throughout the city charter, municipal code, general plan, and city planning studies. Finding C is regarding neighborhood compatibility. Staff believes this finding can be made because of because the HLC found the project compatibility findings have generally been met and that the addition is compatible with the city landmark and surrounding neighborhood. And for finding D, which is that the project is consistent with the traffic management strategy. And as mentioned, the project would be consistent because the downtown development area allows new floor area and no project specific traffic effect is anticipated. In evaluating if the required findings can be made, staff looked at the project for consistency with policies of the general plan and found it consistent with established policies related to commercial land use, historic resources protection and enhancement, economic vitality, vehicular and pedestrian circulation, and environmental resource conservation and protection. The full policy consistency analysis is in Section 7 of your staff report. Regarding design review, the project was reviewed by the Historic Landmarks Commission three times. Overall, HLC has had positive comments on the design and continued refinements. Commissioner Butler is here and can speak to that as well. The project returned for its most recent concept review in July for input on the reconfigured Paseo and pedestrian pathways. HLC found the design with the new site wall to be an appropriate solution considering the design was driven by building and fire code exiting requirements. However, HLC and staff are requesting Planning Commission input on the entry gates at either end of the new pedestrian pathway. These gates are proposed and intended to discourage nuisance activity but some HLC members raised questions about the effects on pedestrian circulation and some also cautioned calling this pathway a paseo since it has been reconfigured and its purpose is to provide required egress for the addition and there's gates on either end. To expand on the Paseo discussion and for background, there is a piece of the Paseo network that would be closed off as a result of the project. On the left is the Paseo plan from the pedestrian master plan and on the right is a map that more accurately shows the existing Paseos on this block. And I highlighted in yellow on the map on the right the continuous Paseo that currently provides a pedestrian connection from Cannon Perdido along the west side of the theater, across City Parking Lot 9, and toward Carrillo Street, toward US Bank. This Paseo is identified in the El Pueblo Viejo Design Guidelines and the Pedestrian Master Plan. These documents encourage pedestrian connectivity and opportunities to enhance the Paseo system. However, the circulation element also recognizes that conflicts between pedestrian circulation and adjacent land uses may occur where Paseos are located to the rear of commercial properties. Here are photos of that portion of the Paseo that crosses City Parking Lot 9 and City staff refers to as the Yellow Brick Road. At this location, pedestrians must cross these four vehicular lanes and there's a high potential for collisions. The original design maintained this opening and Paseo connection. However, due to exiting requirements and overall concerns with emergency egress, safe pedestrian access, and circulation, it was determined this is not a viable Paseo at this time. after thorough discussions with the fire department, building and safety, and downtown parking. So as a result, the project proposes this new site wall along the north property line, circled in red there, to create a new pathway to provide a legal means of egress from the addition to the public right-of-way, since that paseo cannot be used as a legal exit path. So here, again, is the site plan showing the new pedestrian pathway to Anacapa Street. That wraps around the theater to the new courtyard areas and the rendering of the north elevation on the right showing the proposed site wall and landscaping. And here are elevations of those gates at either end. The photo or elevation on the left is the view from Anacapa Street with the gate circled in red. And south elevation, that would be if you were walking down the existing Paseo either entering off of Cannon Perdido or from City Parking Lot 9 in a rendering of the gate as well. So to wrap up and touch on environmental review, staff has determined the project qualifies for an exemption under Section 15301, Existing Facilities, and Section 15331, Historical Resource Restoration and Rehabilitation of the CEQA Guidelines. The project qualifies for these exemptions because the project consists of additions and alterations to an existing theater and is consistent with the Secretary of Interior standards for the treatment of historic properties. The standards acknowledge that rehabilitation includes the need to alter or add to a historic property to meet continuing or changing uses while retaining the property's historic character. And there are no project specific or there's no significant project specific or cumulative impacts on the environment. So no exceptions to the exemption apply. Staff therefore recommends the Planning Commission approve the project, make the required findings in the staff report subject to the conditions of approval in Exhibit A. And a memo was also distributed yesterday and posted online with the revised conditions of approval to reflect the minor changes at the request of the applicant. So those are the conditions we'll be reviewing today. That concludes my presentation, and I'm available for any questions. Thank you.

Okay, thank you, Ms. Ernest. So now we're going to call the applicant up and we're going to allow the applicant to have up to 20 minutes, and then we'll ask Commissioner Butler, who's here, thank you for coming from HLC, if you want to comment after we hear from the applicant.

So would everyone like to come up and introduce yourself?

And if you need to, we'll give you up to 20 minutes.

Good afternoon, Chair DiLuccio and members of the Planning Commission. My name is Mary Ann Clark. I'm the Executive Director of the Libero Theatre Foundation. On behalf of our Board of Directors and all of the Libero patrons, it is with great pleasure that I stand before you to help introduce the most transformative project that our historic theatre has undertaken since its building was built in 1924. The Libero Theater is one of the founding institutions of Santa Barbara's diverse and vibrant performing arts ecosystem. And while Santa Barbara is really fortunate to have seven performance venues ranging in size from 100 to 4,500, the Libero plays a very distinct role. As one of our former board members liked to say, it's part town hall, part Carnegie Hall. For instance, the San Marcos High Jazz Band plays on a stage that was once favored by Dave Brubeck. Three months ago, it was the Teen Star Competition, and two nights ago it was Roger Daltrey. A key element of our mission is to be home for the local community, but the building has an undeniable attraction for larger touring artists as well. For more than 150 years, it has held this central role in our city's cultural life. The other half of our mission, of course, is to act as stewards of this George Washington Smith and Luda Maria Griggs historic landmark. Between 1992 and 2013, the Libero Theater Foundation has completed more than $12 million worth of capital improvements, including seismic reinforcement, new lighting, sound, and video packages, significant accessibility upgrades, audience amenities like air conditioning and doubling the size of the women's restrooms. and adding our beautiful front esplanade in accordance with George Washington Smith's original design. It's critical now that we evolve to meet the needs of the future, even as we honor the theater's important history. To put it simply, we've run out of space and we lack a number of the basic features that are expected in theaters of the libero's caliber. The new structure will provide first ever dedicated laundry and wardrobe facilities, additional shower and restrooms, two new production offices, more than 2,200 square feet of additional production storage. We will also gain flexible space that can be used for rehearsals, for artist green rooms, for sit-down dinners, or for audience and donor cultivation. And as you know, that is the lifeblood for nonprofit organizations. In partnership with DesignArc, we present a project that honors the theater's legacy while addressing our needs for the next century. It is critical that this project begin on time and be completed as quickly as possible. The opera, the ballet, comma, and the youth symphony have all moved their 2027-28 seasons to the Granada, for which we are grateful. But there are another 20 local organizations that will be displaced by our closure. The Libero is a vital community resource and hitting our permitting and construction milestones will have real impacts on dozens of organizations and on the livelihoods of hundreds of Santa Barbarans. Our work with the various departments of the city has been collegial and solutions-driven, and we're very grateful for that as well. I would like to especially thank City Manager Kelly McAdoo, Sustainability Director A'Lelia Parenteau, Community Development Director Allison DeBusk, and of course, all of their staff at the planning, building, fire, transportation, public works, and creeks departments. We're grateful for the feedback and encouragement that we've had from the Historic Landmarks Commission, and as we move forward, I look forward to your input and support in helping us to achieve our goals and complete this project that will benefit all of the downtown performing arts community. Thank you so much, and I'm now going to introduce Mark Shields of DesignArc.

Right. Good afternoon, members and planning commissioners. My name is Mark Shields, and I represent DesignArc. And along with our team, I am the lead designer of the Barrow Edition. You may be familiar with some of the civic projects which include the Santa Barbara Bowl and the Hotel Californian. And I think the funny thing is the last time I was here, I think I was trying to convince another commission to put a pool on top of the Canary Hotel years ago. I hope this isn't as contentious as that. It has been about two years of design work in collaboration with the Libero Board of Directors. since the local architectural competition was awarded to us, and we are more than honored to represent the Libero Theater Foundation and to walk you through the plans and elevations. The Historic Landmarks Commission has been very supportive of our efforts designing the proposed theater expansion. The Libero is dear to me and to many in the audience. Of course, in high school, I used to come to Libero in my flip flops to watch the surf films. And it's amazing that it's Baryshnikov on the other hand. So we love the cultural aspects of the Libero and we're honored that we're working on it. Let's go to the site photos. Adjacent to our location, we share the company of various historic buildings. The El Centro building and city lot number nine to our west, the U.S. Bank to our north, the Julia to the east, the post office to the southeast, and the old El Paseo to the south. The theater was designed by George Washington Smith and Ludemarie Riggs and constructed in 1924 and is certainly an amazing example of Spanish colonial revival architecture. Over the years, the theater has seen additions and alterations, including the addition of the rehearsal hall in 1926 and the scene shop in 1929. It is now considered a city landmark for its architectural, cultural, and historic significance. To the west, we share a property line with the El Centro building, the Marge Dunlop Arch, and the city parking lot number nine. To the north, four lanes of drive aisles from Anacapa Street. The project consists of removing the courtyards event tent, and rehearsal hall, and replacing with our new three-level building addition. There they go. We have planned for a new primary entrance via the Cana Perdido Street Paseo to the west and a new service court to the east where customary event loading and unloading takes place. While still maintaining access through the Marge Dunlap Arch to Lot 9, we plan to enhance the Cana Perdido Paseo entrance with improved accessibility and new landscaping to help invite one to the new west entry court sequence, which also overlaps and continues the passageway around the building, which is a required exit to Anacapa Street. The first entry court will celebrate a donor wall and lead one to the main entrance. All this is possible with the collaboration of city planning staff, the fire department, public works, transportation and creeks. Of important note is that the new addition does not extend east beyond the facade of the iconic fly tower, but I'll talk about that more in terms of the massing in a moment. The city has been through this already, but the basement floor plan, expanded basement with a new elevator, restroom, shower, and laundry facilities with a proper ward room, work room in the basement. The first floor, primarily used, the first floor is for larger backstage production storage, a new crossover between stage left and stage right offices, and the entrance to the new building addition and the lobby with a new staircase connecting to the Loja banquet room located above. The second floor, the new Loja banquet room and catering facilities house plus or minus 120 person banquet space, It's also flexible as a space for small group rehearsals. So it's going to be a beautiful, well-lit space from the north and doubles as a rehearsal space, which is really exciting. The ceiling height of this room is about 14 feet, which makes sense since it's a large banquet room and we need the ceiling height in there to feel comfortable. And the amazing thing about that second floor banquet space is that there are incredible views to the mountains and the courthouse to the north. The third floor has a new bar lounge and with a view terrace, outdoor view terrace as well. That was one of the inspirations for our design was to get this bar to be up on the upper floor because there are going to be incredible views of the city to the north, the Julia building to the east, and also there's kind of a peak of Montecito Peak to the southeast. So I think it's going to be an exceptional place for the public to enjoy and gather. Let's talk about design philosophy for a second. The State of California Secretary of Interior of Standards has specific standards for treatment of historic buildings. Inherent in these guidelines is the concept that additions need to be subordinate to the original historic building, and if possible, added on to the rear of the building. And that new additions should take design cues from the original structure, but not copy the historic building. In other words, in my words, a stylistic similarity. Looking at the building and architecturally, our mantra has been to respect the iconic structure of the Libero and with difference to the size and to the detail. Overall, this elevation represents our interpretation of an addition to the rear, which makes sense with historic standards. but it also has elements of the libero. We're not copying the libero. It has some of the large massings, so you see very little windows on this facade, and we're sort of reiterating the massing without copying the massing, and the HLC really thought that was appropriate. The details are also deferential to the libero detailing. The new detailing on our edition is slightly different. It can't copy, you know, per state standards. For instance, our cornices that are on top of these more vertical walls have a slightly different design than the cornices on the libero itself. We are using some of the standard Santa Barbara design concepts, which seems fine with everybody, such as the two-piece mission tile roof, thick plaster walls, recessed window openings, heavy wood gates and doors, custom Santa Barbara-style wrought iron detailing, steel wood and multi-light windows, especially here on the north side of the building where we're going to bring in so much light to that banquet hall, miscellaneous exotic touches in keeping with George Washington Smith and Ludemarie Riggs' design philosophy, all while working with our historian, Sarah Corder, to refine and develop these details. I think Melissa has a video of our enhanced Paseo where one would enter from Caneperdito Street to our series of new entrance courtyards. We plan to do some enhanced landscaping here to screen parking lot number nine. It's a cameo appearance. And right about past the March Dunlop Arch is where our project really takes off, and we're redoing all the landscaping. This is the first initial courtyard, which actually has a donor wall above this bench to the left, minimal landscaping. The courtyard walls actually hide the view of the city parking lot number nine, which isn't that attractive. The second courtyard features the entrance, and we have an ornate entrance. The window to the left is a nice window, a big window that leads to the stairwell that leads up to the banquet room, lots of light. And the front doors are wrought iron, transparent, so you can see into the lobby. We have the opportunity for some raised planters there as well, and a light fixture hanging from the pediment, which is in keeping with the light fixtures that George Washington Smith had designed for the front entry arcade of Libero as well. So it's not a copy, but it's kind of our version of that. And with that, I conclude my presentation. I'd like to thank you for your time and consideration. We're excited about the project. such an opportunity for Santa Barbara, and I feel like Marianne said, it helps the Libero Theater go for another 100 years and accomplish everything they need to accomplish, and I'm looking forward to more events myself, and a cocktail on the roof with you guys maybe at some point. Thanks for your time and consideration, and Scott Capps will chat about landscape. Terrific.

You have five minutes left.

Good afternoon, commissioners. My name is Scott Capps. I'm the project landscape architect and very pleased to be here this afternoon presenting to you. So we'll just quickly look at the existing site conditions. And I just want to note that we are removing five non-native trees at the northern end of the site due to the addition and the passageway improvements. Next sheet, Melissa. And so really just spend time on our graphic proposed planting plan here. And I think it's very clear where you can see we're doing additional planting that we We were able to see in a lot of design arcs elevations and in the video. So no improvements are planned for the front entry along East Cannon Perdido. Our focus is primarily along Anacapa Street and, of course, the northern end of the property and wrapping around to the new Western Passageway. So along Anacapa, we are very much proposing to pick up on the existing planting that's out there now. So those larger green symbols are proposed olive trees. We would match the same variety that exists at the entry of the building as well as along Anacapa. Our planting palette here along Anacapa is kept very simple and minimal. It's just picking up on what's existing there. And as we wrap around the northern side of the building, picking up on a lot of what you saw on Mark's renderings in video as well. You can go back to the imagery list so we can kind of speed through this. So very much just proposing a plant palette to match what's existing out there now, picking up on a lot of the layered palms, cycads, agaves, you know, very, very Mediterranean plant palette that we're familiar with around town and certainly downtown. The larger group of images on the left show, you know, the existing landscape at the libero. And we were also looking at historic George Washington Smith projects as presidents, as well as other downtown icons like the historic courthouse tower for inspiration. Mark mentioned the Julia building across Anacapa Street and its iconic bougainvillea vine that grows up the elevation. We're proposing similar bougainvillea in key spots along some of the new architectural walls, key corners, just to pick up and almost pay an homage to some of these icons downtown. In general, I think this plan sheet gives a good sense of the overall look and feel for the proposed plant palette. And so that concludes my presentation, and we'll be here with the team for questions. Thank you.

Okay, you guys are finished. So you have two minutes and 45 seconds left in case you need it later on for rebuttal. So this time I'm going to call up Commissioner Butler from HLC. Would you like to comment? And I know you will. We worked together for a lot of years. And also, can you maybe incorporate into what you're going to say about the Paseo a little bit and talk about that? Thank you. Keith Butler.

Commissioners, good afternoon. I am Keith Butler with the Historic Landmark Commission. I cannot think of a project where the HLC has been invoked as frequently and with such high praise as this project.

So thank you.

They've appeared in front of HLC three times, as you saw. Overall, the HLC is strongly supportive of the project. I'll go through some of the items that we specifically addressed in the last meeting. But we came away from that meeting strong advocates of the project, very comfortable with where the project was, where it was headed, et cetera. So just a few comments about what we found. So there's the new height request, which we support. Obviously, the theater portion, the existing portion of the building Contiguous is much higher than that. So we were comfortable with that. There is a new wall that's put in because of the fire concerns, the site wall. And we know that the applicant had worked closely with the fire department, et cetera. I'll come back to that. That's part of the Paseo. We were comfortable with that. We did express a little design interest to make this, it looked a little too complex, maybe simplify it more closely aligned with GWS and his architecture. The donor wall came under discussion a little bit. So we would have encouraged a little more study as to how to actually physically represent the donors. That has yet to be determined. But rather than perhaps painting names or whatever, There might be a more elegant solution to the donor wall. And the most discussed item that has already been addressed was the PSEO itself. As you heard, the HLC recommended not be called a PSEO, and why? PSEO is a thoroughfare, ungated, unobstructed, unintended to be privatized at any given point in time, and is a thoroughfare. And as you've seen in the proposal, that there will be periods of time when the gates will be closed for events or whatever. So we encourage the Planning Commission to consider the use of those gates, the timing of those gates, and how that might work in that specific application of that part of the design. And then finally, we were comfortable with the landscape presentation, the landscaping. There was a citrus tree that, uh, we advise perhaps would not do well for water consideration. So there was one, I think it was an orange tree, um, that we suggest that perhaps take a look at that, uh, due to, uh, the watering needs of that particular part of it. But otherwise it was, we were quite comfortable with it. So again, all in all very supportive, encourage the planning commission's approval. The project, as you heard is time-based there's time considerations. and we would advocate for that.

Thank you. I'm going to ask you a question, though. Is there a donor wall now, or is that something being proposed to have a donor wall? That's proposed. Proposed. Where is that being proposed for? Inside the courtyard. Inside the courtyard. Correct.

I think you want to address that. When you come into the courtyard in the back, and you saw it illustrated, there's one large open wall. There's a bench. Is it by the entrance into the...

the new entrance into the facility. Okay, thank you. And one other thing, what about the gates? They put some gates in. I call it an alleyway, but I'm from New York, but if you don't want to call it Briseo, but they put some gates in. What did HLC think about the gates themselves? I know you asked us, we'll talk about operational later.

The design and the architecture and the configuration of the gates were fine. were sufficient and adequate and matched sort of the existing intent from a design standpoint. The issue was not the design consideration of the gates. We get back to the issue of this being a paseo or not, and when those gates should or should not be left open for passageway through. Okay, so we'll discuss that.

Do you have a comment, Commissioner Waller?

Yes, I just wanted to talk about the gates for a minute. Thank you, Commissioner Butler, for being here. Um, did you have any discussion about, I noticed in the minutes that it said that you wanted, um, PC to weigh in on the gates. Um, did you have any discussion about, or recommendations from your commission as to how you felt the gates should be operated?

Well, I think the commission was pretty split in the sense that there's a strong advocacy that they're not be gates because this is a thoroughfare or Paseo or whatever. And other portions of the commission felt that it's part of the design. We recognize the utility of the space, private events, et cetera. So how to resolve that? And would it be only closed off during those special events, which seems the logical assumption, if they have to be closed? So I think the hope would be that they be closed as seldom and as for minimal periods of time as possible.

Thank you for that answer. Okay, so did you have a question? I think at this point, thank you very much. I just wanted to have us ask questions now in case you don't want to stay for the whole meeting, but you are definitely welcome to. Thank you. Okay, so at this point, we're going to turn to public comment, please.

Thank you, Chair DiLiccio. At this time, I don't have any speaker slips for in-person public comment for this item, but if you would like to speak, you can approach the podium at this time. Oh, yes, we do. Okay, so Jeff Devine, if you want to come up.

Hello. Hello Planning Commission members. I'm Jeff Devine, CEO of American Riviera Bank, which is based right here in Santa Barbara. Our downtown branch is a nearby neighbor. of the Libero Theater. I'm also a board member of the Libero Theater Foundation and a past president of the board. The Libero Theater has an over 150 year history and is already an award winning gem of a theater to listen to live music. I think if anyone's been there, they know how fantastic it is to listen to live music. However, there are junior high schools and high schools in our community that have more modernized rehearsal areas, dressing rooms, and prop storage areas than the Libero Theater. One aspect of this project will address these critical upgrades necessary to make the theater functional for performers and renters today and into the future, but importantly, while maintaining the historical integrity of the original building. And I heard a lot of comments about compatibility during the presentations. The addition will provide beautifully designed, ADA compliant, accessible indoor and outdoor space for the community to gather before shows to interact with the performers, donors, sponsors, and staff of the Libero Theater. The present gathering space is dark, underneath an aging tent, I think you saw it in one of the pictures there, and with tired landscaping. The yellow brick road seems very unsafe to me right now, and I'm pleased to see that that would be changed with this design as well. The new space will be bright, open, beautifully landscaped, and allow patrons to take in the mountain views. I think I envision it a little bit like the top of the Moxie if you've been up there. I think you can realize what a fantastic space that's been for the community to gather and to take in the incredible views. So please join me in supporting this project to make the Libero Theater a world-class venue for the next 150 years. Thank you.

Okay, thank you.

Thank you. With that, I don't have any other speaker slips, but if anyone else in the audience would like to speak, you can approach the podium at this time. Go ahead. Just state your name for the record.

Good afternoon. My name is Daniel Ramirez. I am the Director of Operations and Initiatives with the Downtown Santa Barbara Improvement Association. The Downtown Santa Barbara Improvement Association strongly supports the Libero Theater Building Enhancement Project, which you have just seen, because it honors the historic legacy of George Washington Smith and Luda Maria Riggs, while adding essential new spaces as discussed, like the rehearsal hall, and especially rooftop terrace and expanded backstage areas. This investment will preserve one of California's oldest continuously operating theaters and strengthen downtown as a premier cultural and economic destination for residents and visitors alike. Also as a former employee, this project just, it just makes me smile from ear to ear and I really want your support of this project. Thank you so much.

Thank you. If no one else wants to speak, I will skip virtual participation because we don't have anybody online with us, but I will acknowledge that we received written correspondence from Paulina Khan, Elizabeth Alvarez on behalf of the Community Arts Music Association, and Marie Hebert on behalf of the Santa Barbara Symphony, and give it back to you.

Thank you, Ms. Common. So now we'll close public comments, and we're going to move on to Commissioner questions first. and then we'll get the comments and we'll start with, oh, it's a nice surprise, Commissioner Balke, you're first. I'll go first. I don't know how that worked, but anyway. Your name came up.

Okay, it's all good. A couple of questions. I'm trying to figure out who's the right person. It primarily deals with historic preservation. Is there a historian in the room? Do you have your person here for that or... Not, okay, I'll just ask these questions and the right person can come up to the podium. Is the Libero on the National Register or is it just on the city's landmark status? Does the city know that? Does anybody know that?

I can answer that.

Please.

It is a state, okay. It is a state historic landmark but not a national landmark.

Okay, thank you. Okay, this is probably to Mr. Shields. And I presume this is how the city, we use the Secretary of Interior's standards for design review for city landmarks and the state would also require that. Could Mr. Shields come up and outline sort of those distinctions you made between, because this goes back to my history, which is one of the things I did in the very first part of my career was manage the Old Town Historic District, the Plaza Historic District in Orange, which was on the National Register. and did the work to create the second largest historic district in California, which is the city of Orange, Miles Square Historic District. So I'm going a little bit in the weeds. Question to you is, The Secretary of Standards say you can't copy, and you have to sort of make it look historic, but at the same time not copy. And I was wondering how much conversation you had with HLC, and Mr. Butler could probably answer this too, about making it close enough to look like it fits, but not copying.

I think it's a fine line there. Everybody's always concerned about the differentiation. And I think certainly one of the big things about placing an addition to a historic building is the location. So luckily we had the fly tower massing the big wall to the north to place our addition. We also didn't align it with the existing building in terms of wall to wall. We have a slight recess on the eastern side that gives a a bit of a space. And so there's a lot of discussion about the overall massing of the project and how tall it was and how does it compete or doesn't compete. And we added the tile roof element, which is like the libero. Of course, it has a mission tile roof on the southern side. But to make it different, our cornice detailing is much different on that tile roof versus the cornice detailing on the southern tile roof. The older existing building, the cornice detailing is much more ornate than we plan to design. And we had discussions with the HLC. We have sections of our new cornice detailing, which is much simpler and less sharp than the, if I could describe it that way, than the older cornice detailing on the libero. Another big distinction is while the HLC always strives to make historic additions comply with the state mandate, there are subtle things we're doing as well. Like, for instance, if you look at the plaster on the Libero building, the plaster texture, on a sunny day you can see, if the shadows are right, you can see that the plaster has some lumps to it. We're not going to do that. That's a subtle difference, right? We're having a smooth plaster to match the smooth plaster of the Adobe facade, I mean of the original facade, Adobe original facade, but we're not doing the bumps. So that's a subtle differentiation in the overall large scale picture of things. You can take it right down to every little detail is not copying what George Washington Smith had done. I had alluded to the light fixture that we have hanging over the entry on the north side, our new entry. We're not taking that light fixture from the lobby of the Libero and copying it. But we are doing a Mediterranean, North African, Spanish Revival light fixture, which we've designed many of and are built in Santa Barbara. It'll be similar, but it won't be exactly like that. And that's another fine, fine detail. And I think in general, the HLC has a tough job because they want it to feel like Santa Barbara, in addition to obviously an historic, iconic monument. But they do have to follow the state mandate and so we've worked closely with them to make these subtle distinctions If that helps to answer your question, you know, you definitely answer my question and thank you Thank you, and that's the only questions I have at this time Joe it's come Thank You mr.

Chair Okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna start with mr. Ernest first just going I want to thank you for the revised conditions of approval. You really have saved me a lot of time asking questions about those. I just have a couple other questions on those, on the revised ones. There was a condition in there, and I didn't see it this time, and I want to make sure it's not there, to consolidate the two stormwater reports into one. That's gone now?

That will still be worked out with the Creeks division. It will need to be worked out prior to design review final approval, but because we didn't have an answer on it quite yet, that was removed from the commissions.

Okay, okay. I would make a comment that I just don't think we should be creating extra work for applicants since it's two different stormwater done at two different times, but unless there's a really good reason. And then Let me go through this.

I'll do it this way.

Oh, okay. So on page four of the new conditions of approval, there's a facility use fee agreement. And I'm just trying to familiarize myself with this. Some of these things seem vague to me. I know you didn't write them. And it basically talks about will require full compensation to city through a facility use fee agreement, including assessed costs that may not be listed in the downtown parking fee resolution. Well, where are they listed and how is that decided?

Commissioner, what's come through the chair? So that condition was provided from downtown parking, given that during construction, the parking lot will be blocked off and there will be some loss of spaces revenue from that. So that condition for the facility fee use agreement will be required before building permit issuance, and that will be worked out between downtown parking and the owner. Unfortunately, we don't have the details of that agreement and how it will be worked out, but it will be an agreement between downtown parking and Blue Barrel.

Can we name downtown parking then instead of it will be worked out through the city? If downtown parking is going to work it out, I imagine the manager of downtown parking will be responsible for that. Is that correct?

Yes, we can include downtown parking.

Thank you. Um, I just think that would be good. Okay. And then I, this is another one and I'm getting picky, but I, I'm just, I would really like us to get more specific in these. So we're not having applicants going all over the place. Well, I thought this guy was doing it. No, this department does it, um, on page six. After certificate of occupancy is granted, all stormwater treatment improvements installed will be subject to water quality testing by city staff to ensure they are performing as designed and operating in compliance with city stormwater MS4 permit. Okay. Who is city staff in that case?

Commissioner Wiscombe, that would be the Creeks Division.

Okay. Could we specify that then?

Yes.

Okay. I would appreciate that. Just so applicant knows where they need to go for this or who they need to ask. And then on page 10, and I'm sorry I didn't get this to you before because this didn't come in until yesterday afternoon, or I didn't read it until yesterday, actually this morning. On page 10 of the C of A under F, well, before F in It says a final report on archaeological monitoring shall be submitted to the city. And then you go down to F3, and it says the same thing again. So that's just a repeat. I think that's a repeat.

So Commissioner Wiscombe, through the chair. I do know that archaeological requirements are repeated quite a bit throughout the conditions. That's because the way we order the conditions are for the different phases. So that first one is under Section E. That's during construction. So that condition is saying during construction. But you are right that that final paragraph talking about the report being provided within 180 days is repetitive of the section below that, section F, that's prior to certificate of occupancy.

So can we remove one or the other?

Yes, so since Commissioner must come through the chair, since that is a requirement prior to occupancy, let's keep it under section F, but we can remove it from section E. Great.

Okay. Thank you for that. That's great.

And then let me see what else I have here.

Oh, okay. I wanted to ask, that's all I have for you, Ms. Ernest. Thank you very much. So I wanted to ask the landscape architect, I'm sorry I didn't get your name. There you are, yeah. Are you doing any permeable pavement in the project?

No, we are not.

You're not? No. Okay, thank you. So you're not... Not considering that for... Not in terms of stormwater improvements. You can come up if you want.

We have extensive stormwater management tactics in such that we don't need to have permeable paving.

Okay. Okay. That's great. Thank you. Okay, and then my, okay, and I'd like Ms. Clark to come up, please, thank you. Oh, I should have asked Mr. Shields where the swimming pool is, but I forgot. Ms. Clark, I wanted to ask you about the gates. Yes. So what is your recommendation? Since we're asked to give HLC our thoughts on the gates, what do you feel is the right thing to do about the gate closure?

Because right now, Even just the existing Paseo that is there is such an attractive nuisance. What we would like is to have the gates open only during business hours. It is a safety concern for our staff, and so our thought is that we will open them any time that we are open, so that is typically Monday through Friday and on show days on the weekends, and that our staff will manage that. So it would be open 10 a.m. to 5 p.m. unless there's a show, in which case it would be open longer. Okay, so 10 a.m. to 5 p.m. And we have close to 200 days a year that we are open with shows or rehearsals or things like that. So many days out of the year we would be open for longer than that. The gates would be open longer than that.

And, okay, so you have a different approach, I guess, than HLC, who wanted them closed only when you have private, or who suggested some member, some commissioner suggested that closed during private events. So what happens when you are not, you're not open, so you talked about, safety of staff. So if you don't have any staff there, you know, and you're not open, why can't they be open?

Because when our staff arrive in the morning or if they're leaving at night, there's the potential for somebody to be there who could potentially be unsafe for our staff members. You know, so having, having this be a gathering place for transient population creates a potential unsafe situation for our staff members.

Hmm.

Okay.

Have you had, have there been problems? There have. There have. And are these documented by the police department or?

Occasionally. And we do, we have set up security cameras now in that Paseo because we have needed to document them from time to time. Okay. Okay. I appreciate that answer. Thank you.

Thank you very much.

Yes, yeah, we want to point out that it would not impede access to lot 9 they the gates come after the archway Okay Okay, thank you so much for that answer.

I appreciate it and that's all I have mr. Chair. Thank you.

Okay Commissioner Bonwell Thank You mr.

Chair a Couple there's a I'll just go through my list. There's a walk drain and floor drain, walk drain on the west side of the main building between you guys and the El Centro building as you walk down this discussed open corridor, paseo, whatever. Where does that go? I mean, where does that drain drain to? Because drainage is a big issue with you guys. So I'm curious, is it being reconstituted in some way? And it also catches the roof drip. of the old central building in that pathway. So I'm curious about that.

You want to do that one, Melissa?

Yeah. Commissioner Barnwell, Melissa Turner from .

I think I know which drain you're referring to.

If it's on our property, then it is currently piped directly out to the right of way.

Okay. It is on your property, actually. It's on your property.

Okay. And others, the downspouts that you referred to, go to the existing biofiltration race planners that were installed in 2013.

Okay. But this one is not in the plans to reconnect it in any way. Okay. Thank you. This may seem to go back to what my esteemed colleague, Ms. Wiscombe, just referred to as getting into the weeds, but I have been involved in some design discussions about several buildings in town where the issue of hand-troweled corners as opposed to steel-troweled corners will create more of an Adobe look. And you were describing how the architecture is going to work. Are those corners, is that exterior surface, is the intention to give them a hand-troweled look like old Adobe really has? And my point, the one that sticks out for me is Roosevelt School. There was much discussion about that. And every time I drive by it, it looks like an engineer did those corners. It doesn't look like that building's very old. So anyway.

I think the intention is to have it hand troweled. Of course, it always is typically, but it would have a slight undulation to it. So it wouldn't be. as rough as Adobe, because certainly when you're following Adobe, Adobe Surface translates. So it will be slightly rustic, I would say.

OK, because it's surprising. As you know, it's surprising how windows and doors and corners give the building its feel, even to people who don't know what they're talking about.

And bigger buildings like this and the Californian, the corners are important. And on our plans, we have designated the corners are just rounder on a building of this magnitude. And so we've paid attention to that, and we have details to that effect.

Thank you. And while I have you at the mic, if you would answer another question for me. I, have you given any thought to a historical plaque?

We could think about that.

To go somewhere. And I say that, you know, you guys missed a couple things. Like you said you're across the street from the. Julia. Julia. You're also across the street from the Cota Knox house. And the Cota Knox house was built by Mr. Libero. I don't know if you know that. But his mother-in-law, Miss Coda, got her house wiped out when we laid out the Haley Street grid. And so he said he'd build her another one. So that little brick thing right across from your driveway, he built. And I think you also know, we mentioned it on site, that it isn't just a building. I mean, the first fiesta was celebrated. in honor of the opening of that new one. So a plaque might be something that you might consider.

Yeah, with some historic literature, it would be nice to have what you were talking about the other day, a little history. Yeah. Because everybody's so interested in that, including myself.

Well, and it gives it some depth, the building. Insofar as the plantings, are they seedless olives?

What was that again, sir?

Are they seedless olive trees?

Fruitless, I mean. That's up to discussion. Scott, what do you think about that?

Well, seedless, fruitless.

We would match the existing varieties that are on site, which are fruitless.

Okay. Yes. And the bougainvillea, because there's so many people coming and going around that thing, is it a thornless bougainvillea?

We haven't specified the final variety, but you make a great point, so we take that into consideration.

Okay, so I would suggest that also. Thank you very much.

I want to add one thing.

Excuse me? Yes.

I want to add something that's of historic interest to everybody in that apparently in the 30s they put a, what is it, a vault in the building, built a vault into the building with... It's like a treasure chest with a historic reference.

Time capsule.

Time capsule. We're going to be on the lookout for that. We haven't found it. During construction, we're going to be looking for that. Oh, cool. So far, no one's ever found it, but we're very interested in finding it.

Well, that is an interesting twist. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I have no other comments. See where you take it? Direction? Okay, I actually have a question for you. And actually, did you ever get your pool on top of the Canary Hotel?

The what?

The pool. Did it ever get installed?

Oh, yeah.

Well, let me tell you, this guy was, Commissioner Bonwell was on this commission back then.

Way back then when, yeah, we were asking for that. Yeah. Very briefly, there was a prohibition against that whole floor being used because it exceeded the height limitations. And so there was a draft in the Planning Commission Conditions of Approval said conditions of approval now lost to history. So they just go up there and have parties now willy-nilly because nobody remembers the original one.

You're going to get me in trouble with the city of Journey. Okay, anyway, so I do have a question as long as you're up here. It has to do with the new building on the roof. Is there a parapet around the whole exterior?

Yes, there is, and there's a couple of reasons for that. And one, I want to go back, maybe it wasn't as philosophical about the, projects they should be because I'm so nervous when I get up here talking to you guys. But one of the big design issues was we have a new elevator. And elevators typically go 12 feet, 12'6", beyond the floor that they're on. And I did not want to see an elevator tower sticking through our mansard roof above the third floor. So we went to great measures to bury that elevator in the mansard roof. And also the mansard roof shape allows us to also hide all the roof equipment, which I hate seeing on projects. So we do have, I believe it's the heating system for the bar area up in that, and there's a six-foot parapet wall between the face of the mansard and the fly tower. So we went through great pains to hide all mechanical up there. I just don't like seeing it. I just pet peeve about doing so many buildings in Santa Barbara and putting a screen around. They just don't want to do that. So from the very get-go, we're thinking about some of these ideas that will just make the building more attractive.

Is that counted toward the height, the six feet? Excuse me one more time? Is the six feet counted toward the height of the building?

Yes. Yes, it is. And that's one of the reasons we're asking for this little bit of a height increase. And that's a combination of having Trying to get each floor a reasonable height, and certainly the banquet hall needs to have a decent ceiling.

Yeah, the city does count that. From another city, I always say, which was a little different, we didn't count parapets as part of the height. It was almost like a projection.

Yeah, I know. That's part of the philosophy of design.

Thank you. Okay, so we're going to turn to Commissioner Balke again.

I had one question I sort of forgotten. The subject's come up, which is stormwater. I understand that stormwater is very, very hard to deal with, especially in downtown. What is your plan and how are you going to meet our are in regional water quality control boards. Very, very strict standards.

I think Melissa is best versed in answering that question. You want to give them the down low? I will.

Thank you. Commissioner Bach, we had a lot of conversations with our board as well as the Creeks department. Significant improvements were done in 2013 in the last big capital improvement that the We arrived at a solution for the new addition where we have a detention chamber added in this recess. I don't know if you can see it on my screen. On the northeast corner of the building, we put it as far away from the existing structure, but more importantly, as far away from the existing building and the existing foundations, 100-year-old foundations, and the existing basement of the theater as well. A lot of engineering has gone into this design. A lot of studies have been done, and this was the best solution that we can come up with. So between the groundwater tables and foundations to deal with, we were able to at least solve this.

So whereabouts?

In this square dashed-in line on the northeast corner.

That's probably the most logical place for it.

It is, yeah. We tried different places, but it really – the other obvious area was in the loading zone, but you're – abutting the basement of the historic building, which caused a lot of issues. And our geotechnical engineer, of course, informed us that we want to be as far away as possible as we can, not to potentially have any water intrusions.

So how big is this chamber?

It is around 8 feet by 16 feet or so. They're made up of cubes almost that could be stacked in a different configuration, about 8 feet below grade. and I think about 16 feet away from the new building addition and foundations.

Okay, so in your case, you actually have a spot for it, so that's the whole thing with downtown. A lot of properties have no spot for such things. And so, okay, just wanted to know how you're going to handle it.

Yeah, we've been on it for about 10 months on this subject, so thank you for the question.

Okay.

Commissioner Peterson.

Thanks for your patience. Oh, of course. Um, I want to talk about the gates again. Can you talk about the hours that you'd like on the gates being closed?

Yes. Commissioner Peterson.

Um, talk about the hours that I like or what, what is your preferred hours of closure on the gates?

Oh, Basically just any time that our staff are not on site. So we would open them as soon as we open in the morning, 9 or 10 a.m., and then we would close them when we leave at night. So that would be 5 o'clock on a day when there's no show. On a night when there is a show, we would close them, you know, 10 or 11 after the show ends.

Are there shows most weekends?

Yes.

Okay. So they'd be open... most Saturdays as well.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah. And so on a Saturday, they probably wouldn't be opened at 10 AM. They'd probably open more like noon to be honest, because our box office opens at noon on a Saturday and our crew may not come in until three.

Somewhat related. Was there any wise or was there any talk or thought about putting another gate where the yellow brick road is right now, where the Paseo essentially is and, If not, why not?

Commissioner Ensberg actually talked about that and asked the question, and Fire Marshal DiGiulo said that it just simply was not doable by code. Again, just allowing any foot traffic across those lanes of exit traffic for the parking structure was just completely against safety code.

Okay. Thank you. You're welcome. Those are my questions. Thank you.

Commissioner Peterson, may I add, maybe this would help the conversation as well or give a little bit of comfort. On previous projects that we worked on, on the Californian Hotel, one of the buildings had a paseo and actually a public vista through it, looking out to the beautiful mountains. And during our planning commission hearings, of course, the operator and the client wanted to have gates so that, given the transit population close to the hotel, Depot lot, too, that they wanted to maintain some level of safety both for their staff and their patrons. And the compromise was, yes, we would put them in, but be able to open during business hours and close at night. And they have a key fob operation to enter for guests. This was 13 or, sorry, nine years ago or so, but that was basically how we solved that problem also, given that it's private property and the operator has some say. In this case, this is not a prescriptive easement, right? This is still a private property. The passageway and the historic use of the Paseo is something we want to maintain but have a little bit of control. Okay.

Thank you.

Thank you for your consideration.

I think that's why we were asking what your preference would be. You said it is a private Paseo or whatever you want to call it, and that's why we were really asking what your preference would be for the hours. I think we probably would put them probably in the conditions of approval here. Is that?

Chair DiLuccio, I think what we're asking is just to forward your comments to the Historic Landmarks Commission. It would not be a condition.

Because they're the ones who actually came up with the concern and wanted our opinion on that. Okay. And as far as landscaping goes, I know we've talked about landscaping a little bit, but that goes back to HLC also for the final approval. Okay. So at this time, I think we'll move on to comments. From commissioners, we'll start with Commissioner Barnwell.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am 100% in support of this in every category. Insofar as that hot topic of that pathway, that's private property, right? And there hasn't been any establishment of a public easement through that. And when you speak of it being an attractive nuisance, I have much, not a little, but much personal experience with walking down there and seeing people just spending the night, et cetera. And I agree with you. I also would send to the HLC that I think it should be open during business hours, and the rest of the time it's not, if that is the preference of the operator. And that seems like a good way to go. I am sorry that that PASSAGEWAY WAS LOST, BUT IT LOOKS LIKE NOW THE ONUS IS ON THE CITY OF SANTA BARBARA AND THEIR DRIVEWAY THAT ACCESSES THE PARKING LOT TO CREATE A THREE- OR FOUR-FOOT PATHWAY THERE. MR. DELUCCIO AND I LOOKED AT THAT, AND THERE WAS PLENTY OF ROOM TO CREATE AN ALTERNATE PATHWAY IN THAT DRIVEWAY AREA. THE DONOR WALL, WHICH CAME UP, AND YOU GUYS SAID YOU WEREN'T QUITE, HADN'T SOLVED IT, I WANT TO DOUBLE DOWN ON THAT. I'M NOT IMPRESSED WITH THAT DONOR WALL. for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is most donor walls are visible to the patrons. That is not visible to patrons in the normal sense, because normal patrons of the theater go in the front door, and they may not ever go in that side entrance. Also, I would suggest that patrons kind of like to have their name there, so you can see it. And so I would suggest maybe a rethinking of how you want to place that. and where it goes, and then in the concept of that, I really do, I want to double down again on a historical plaque, and I want to add just a couple other comments. When Mr. Libero showed up here in Santa Barbara, he showed up exactly at the death of Jose de la Guerra, this house right across the street, and they were having a funeral procession to the mission, and he was a musician, and he played the trombone, So he organized a band, and he walked with the casket. And he didn't know who De La Guerra was. And he walked with the casket and his band up to the mission. After that point, the De La Guerra family loved him. And they began to ask him what they could do for him. And they were the most powerful family in the city. So he got an entree into the city immediately within the first week or so of his having been here. And like I said, that isn't just any building. It was the centerpiece of the first Fiesta. When he built the first one, there were only 3,000 people. That's smaller than the population of the city high school. There were only 3,000 people in the city of Santa Barbara. But he came from Italy. And Verdi had done opera, and he had sung opera. And when he got here and there was no opera house, he was shocked. We've got to have an opera house, even though there's only 3,000 of us. So I think a plaque is deserving. And the poor guy ended up committing suicide when his business or things went sideways. And I think we all owe him a great debt of gratitude. We owe him a great debt of gratitude. He committed suicide. We don't owe him a debt of gratitude for that, no. for all that he did and for his vision, which I just think is remarkable. We're here now because of it. And then I want to also comment on the view of the top floor. From my perspective as a contractor, I refer to those as new views because we all have a view from the courthouse, right? And we all have these standard views. And then the moxie goes up and you go, oh, wow, look at this. This is a whole new view. And there's another new view on top of the courtyard by Marriott. just a little bit up, there's a new view there. And the Canary Hotel, a brand new view. Oh my God, how cool is this? So I applaud that as an architectural feature as well. So I am 100% behind this in every way. And I like the fact that you've got a catch basin in the far, far corner to capture water because it is super important now that we catch our water. Because if we don't, it goes to Mission Creek and it floods. Um, and I'm glad that you guys answered the call on that. And so thank you very much for everything you've done. Every component of this is something that I a hundred percent endorse. Thank you.

Okay. Thank you. Um, did the city administrator want to say something? I have a city administrator as a speaker. I guess they're busy talking. So we're going to move on to Commissioner Bauke in the meantime.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. First off, I definitely support the project, and I would like to thank Mr. Shields and the entire design team of threading the needle, as I call it, between the Secretary's standards the HLC's requirements and standards and finding that thing that looks like it fits but isn't a copy. And I think he did a great job. And as I got more and more into the details, more of these things were done better than I expected. So I definitely want to commend you for that. I'd also like to commend the folks at the HLC because, I mean, saw your project a number of times and they provided you some very, very good comments and I think the fact that this sort of seemed like a win-win kind of conversation all along is definitely a testament to HLC and city staff and there's all those technical staff people we didn't talk about with the fire department and the building department and public works and the ALL ARE WORKING WITH YOU, I THINK, IN THIS CASE, WHICH IS SOMETHING I THINK THE CITY REALLY NEEDS TO FOCUS ON IS TRYING TO GET TO YES. I THINK THAT'S A COMMENT THAT IS SORT OF A NEW POLICY STATEMENT, WE'LL CALL IT THAT. SO THIS IS A PERFECT EXAMPLE OF GETTING TO YES. I DEFINITELY WOULD LIKE TO THANK The board of directors and your donors because they're the ones they're probably going to pay for this. I hope and I think this is a great civic and cultural investment in our community and you should be thanked for that and if the Time comes I'd be pleased to make the motion to approve Thank you quit

Uh, chair de Lucio, um, and PC members. I do want to just bring to your attention that if you, I do think it is appropriate for the commission to condition, um, Paseo access or gates or timing, if you see fit to do so and add that to the conditions of approval. Um, we have circulation element and pedestrian master plan policies. that speak to preservation of Paseo uses and expanding them and acquiring new uses and encouraging those crossings. So there are policies that speak to that, and that is within your purview.

Thank you. I thought that was the policy. That's why I brought that up, that we could It's not a recommendation. We can make a condition of that when the time comes.

Mr. Chair, since that came up, I didn't know we were going to get into that. I definitely support basically the theory of basically hours of operation as to when those gates should be open. Do you have a preference of hours? The hours would be the hours of operation.

Hours of operation, okay. Well, that's a general way of stating it. That's a good way.

Okay, Commissioner Wiscombe?

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'm really excited about this project. I think it's really wonderful and there's a lot going on downtown and it's pretty exciting. I definitely support the idea that Commissioner Barnwell brought up of the historical plaque and also I think the donor wall, but I think they should both be done with HLC input. We're not designers up here and I think that that's That's where they belong. But I think both of those are great additions. And just on comments on the gates, I support the business hour concept that Ms. Clark provided. I think that's the way to go. And Commissioner Barnwell made comments about that area. So I think that that is appropriate. And I also support the idea of, again, Commissioner Barnwell brought this up, the thornless bougainvillea. We already know that it's fruitless olives, but the thornless bougainvillea should be appropriate for the area. And I'd just like a couple changes made to the C of A that I think I mentioned before. The facility use agreement. has to be done with the downtown parking manager, and then the water quality testing by the creeks division, and then deleting the first paragraph before you get to F for the archaeological. Yeah, I know you know where that is. And other than that, I want to thank everyone for coming. Thank you, Mr. Shields, for your presentation. I think it was really great. And miss Clark for yours It's it's a very exciting project and I hope it really moves seamlessly through the next steps and We can move on with it.

So thank you Thank You Commissioner Peterson Thank You chair.

I absolutely support this project. I think it's beautiful and the addition complements the building, I think, very well and almost balances it out. I'm not an architect, but in many ways, and control for saying this, the north side of Libero, it's barren, and so when you look at the renderings, the windows there and how it steps down makes it look more complete. I think it's beautiful. I am uneasy with the loss of the alley in New York or the Paseo here. And so I understand, yeah, I support the hours of operation. I understand this is private property. I'll go along with what seems to be a majority here. I was with commissioner Barnwell and DeLucio when we went around the side on the city's driveway, coming out of the parking structure and asked, I think I asked the question was like, why can't this be a walking path here and somewhat complete what is essentially a Paseo? And so maybe that's a conversation for another day. But with that, I'll be supportive of it. Thank you.

So I get to say something now, right? When you chair in the meeting, you don't have to say a lot because you're running the meeting. And this is such a wonderful project. I mean, it's like a love fest here. I think it's a great project, and I definitely support it, and I guess Paseo is going to be any place you want to make them in the city. There's so many, as we were discussing. You're going to put the gate after, because when you go through the alley, Paseo, I'll call it, you go through it, you'll first come to the entrance into the parking lot when you're coming from Cana Medillo and you're going down to Paseo. You can I mean, you can go through there and wander in there and wander out someplace else. So maybe you have to be a little careful because there's cars and everything. So that's what I love about Santa Barbara, all these little paseos and little shortcuts. You don't have to be on the main streets. You can just get where you need to go. I like the suggestion as far as the gate closures to use the expression, come up with the condition just that it's locked, it's open during hours of operation. not to make like say oh nine to five or nine to six and that's gonna be too restrictive for you, but if we just at least put something in there to acknowledge that it needs closure and just use a general term of hours of operation. So at this point, I'm going to turn it over to, I think Commissioner Balke, you wanted to make a motion?

Yes. I'd like to move approval based on the findings set forth on page 12 and 13 of the staff report, findings A, B, C, and the CEQA exemption.

One second. Could you put that up, please, on the screen? I think we'll have that in front of us. I think that was at the end of your presentation.

There we go. Go ahead. Is there another slide, too?

My apologies. I don't have the findings listed, but if you can just refer to pages 12 to 13 of the staff report.

The findings are A, B, and C are set forth in the staff report on page 12 and 13. along with the required discretionary actions as set forth on this slide. With the following modifications that the conditions of approval be revised to be reflected as set forth in the September 2nd, 2026 set of conditions with the modifications as expressed by Commissioner Wiscombe. with the hours of operations for the gates to be When the facility is operating I'll second the motion.

I think a commissioner was gonna beat you. Oh sure. Sorry Okay. Do you agree with the motion? Do you have anything you want to add?

No, I don't think we need to add the thornless bougainvillea I think you know that we don't need to get that picky I I think that covers everything. The thing is, are our comments going to be included? Because I think a lot of us talked about the historical plaque and the donor wall, and I would like to see HLC review those things. That would be a comment that I think most of my fellow commissioners would agree with.

Yes, absolutely. Anything else? Otherwise, we'll take a vote after. Do you have a comment, Commissioner?

Not to add, but there is, I personally feel there is something being lost by a gate closure at night, and I just want to put that on the record, that I feel, yeah, we are losing an essential Paseo, but I understand the reasoning for it, but so much HLC, I'm balancing it in my head.

Okay, great. Thank you for that comment. Are we ready to vote, or do you have something else?

I just wanted to say to staff, I wanted to back up Ms. my esteemed colleague Ms. Wiscombe's comment about adding the Creeks Commission as being the group that was going to monitor these things. I think it always helps these reports when there's an identity associated with those otherwise loose, loosey-goosey, you know, assertions. So I'm glad you're doing that. Thank you.

Okay, we're going to go for a vote now, but I do want to thank staff for all the work you've done on this, Ms. Earnest, and staff, and also the applicant. So thank you, and we look forward to seeing this built in the near future.

Yes, just go ahead. I failed to thank Ms. Ernest for all her hard work, and that's on me, my bad. But thank you so much for everything you did and for the revised conditions of approval. I think that made them more flexible and made it much easier for the applicant, which is what we're striving for. Thank you. Okay, great.

So if we all remember the motion, I know we had a first and a second. Do you want to do a roll call, please, Ms. Conley?

Thank you. I'll begin with Commissioner Wiscombe.

Yes.

Commissioner Barnwell. Yes. Commissioner Peterson.

Yes.

Commissioner Bauke.

Yes.

And Chair DiLugio. Yes. Motion passes. Thank you. Terrific.

Thank you. Okay. Okay, so now we're gonna move on to the, I guess the administrative portion of the agenda today. Committee and liaison reports. I have one actually from the staff hearing officer meeting yesterday that I do wanna, I think there's something really important took place at that meeting that I wanna report on. So. It was a very lengthy meeting. It was almost three hours of meeting. There were four items. I'll talk about the first two first. Tess Harris is the steering hearing officer. Two items, I'm going to mention them because within 10 calendar days, they can be appealed to the Planning Commission. One is 3102 Seacliff, and that was just an approval of a front yard modification. And then there was 18, eight 14 Welton road. And that was just approval of a open yard modification. Um, so, and it, and the, and a coastal development material now, uh, for an ADU. So those are pretty straightforward, but again, they can be appealed within 10, 10 calendar days as of yesterday to the planning commission. The one that came up that I was a little surprised about and why I was, I was wondering why it didn't come to the planning commission. It's the 710 to 740 Garden Street and 320 De La Guerra Street. That's the city's housing authority. It's 102 affordable senior housing apartments that are currently there right now. They received approval for a tentative subdivision map to allow the division of a 4.68-acre parcel into two lots. One would be 1.58 acres. that'd be lot number one, and the other would be 3.10 acres, that would be lot number two. So they're gonna focus right now on developing lot number one by demolishing, they're gonna do demolition of 48 apartments, and in turn, those are like one and two story buildings, and they're gonna develop 104 apartments, and there'll be two buildings that'll be about three or four feet high. And... And where it goes, again, it's a 10-day appeals period to the Planning Commission, as of yesterday, if anybody appeals it. Otherwise, it'll go back to the project design approval by the HLC. It goes back to HLC for product design approval and final approval. And they are actually using a combination of our AUD as well as state bonus density, a combination of the both. to allow for more density. So I just wanted to report on that. So I think that's really important for us to know that.

Mr. Chair, is that the Presidio Springs?

Yes.

Right?

Yes.

Okay. So that's Kitty Corner from the old Tino's Market there, the Italian market, just to place it for everybody so they know where that is. Yeah. Yeah. And it comes all the way to Garden Street.

Yeah. It's pretty massive. Yeah. Yeah.

So, all right. Thank you very much. Did they talk about the community? There's a community meeting hall in there. Did all of that get included in the discussion?

Yes. Yes. And they're going to, there's outreach to the, uh, to the senior community there. There, there is out, they are, they're out, they're doing outreach and, and I, I, and there were some speakers, uh, who lived there and I, I thought it was, um, As far as the hearing went, I thought everything was covered very well. I'll just leave it at that. I don't think we should talk about it too much more, though. It could come before us. We don't know. I have one more question, if I may.

Was there a discussion about the historical component of that property? Not too much. Because that's the first spring. That's where they got their first water when they came to Santa Barbara.

That's why it's called that. Okay, thank you very much. Moving on now to, are there any other, are there any other reports? Maybe someday someone will surprise us and come up with a report. So any other, is there any discussion of subcommittee workshops today? Okay, otherwise, I guess we're going to be adjourned. Everybody have a wonderful Labor Day weekend. And there's no meeting next week on the 10th. But on the 17th, we're meeting at 1230 for a lunch meeting. And then 3 o'clock, we have an item coming before us. Okay, thank you. Bye.