Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

21st, 2026 Planning Commission hearing. I'll call the hearing to order at 1.01 p.m. Ms. Carman, can we please have roll call?

Thank you, Chair Boss. I'll begin with Chair Boss. Present. Vice Chair DiLuccio. Here. Commissioner Barnwell. Here. Commissioner Bauke. Here. Commissioner Wardlow. Here. And Commissioner Wiscombe. Here. We have quorum. Thank you.

Thank you. We'll get started with preliminary matters. The first topic on our agenda today is the requests for continuances, withdrawals, postponements, or ex-agenda items. Ms. Arseniega, do we have any? Thank you, Chair Bost. We do not. Do we have any announcements or appeals? We do not. Okay. We are now on to item C, review consideration and action on the draft planning commission minutes from two hearings, April 9th and April 16th. We'll take these as two separate action items. I think we had different attendance on each day. First, are there any planning commission or comments on the April 9th minutes? And any public speaker comments for these minutes?

I don't have any speakers' lips to speak on these minutes.

So if no comments, can I get a motion to approve the April 9th Planning Commission minutes?

So moved. Second. All right.

And can we please have a roll call vote?

Thank you. I'll begin with Commissioner Bauke.

Yes.

Commissioner Wardlow. Yes. Commissioner Barnwell.

Yes.

Commissioner Wiscombe.

Yes.

Vice Chair DiLuccio. Yes. And Chair Bras.

Yes.

Motion passes. Thank you.

Okay. And are there any Planning Commissioner comments on the April 16th minutes? Any public speaker comments for these minutes?

I don't have any at this time.

All right. And if no comments, can I get a motion to approve the April 16th Planning Commission minutes?

I'll move. I'll second.

Okay. And can we please have a roll call vote?

Thank you. I'll begin with Commissioner Bauke.

Yes.

Commissioner Werther. Yes. Commissioner Barnwell.

Yes.

Commissioner Wiscombe. Yes. Vice Chair DiLuccio. Yes. And Chair Boss.

Yes.

Motion passes. Thank you.

All right, and that takes us to item D, comments from members of the public pertaining to items that are not on today's agenda. Ms. Carman, do we have anyone in person or remote who would like to give public comment?

Thank you, Chair Boss. At this time, I don't have any speaker slips for in-person public comment under general. I would just like to remind the audience that if you want to speak under a specific item, you can fill out a speaker slip and bring it up to me, and I will call your name under that item. Sir, I'm assuming you want to speak... under the state street. Megan, is it the state street? Is that one for state street? Yes. Yes. Okay. Um, so with that, uh, we don't have any participants online and we didn't receive any written correspondence under general, so I'll give it back to you. Okay. Thank you.

We will move right into discussion item drafts state street master plan. The purpose of this hearing is to review and comment on the draft plan before staff returns to council with the final State Street Master Plan in August. As noted in the staff report, staff is requesting policy direction on specific items and today would especially like feedback on housing and redevelopment, particularly when it comes to expediting the development of more affordable housing downtown. We have staff and consultants here to provide a presentation who will introduce themselves during the presentation. Ms. Harris, the floor is yours.

GREAT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH, CHAIR BOSH. GOOD AFTERNOON, COMMISSIONERS. REALLY APPRECIATE BEING HERE TODAY. MY NAME IS TESS HARRIS. I'M THE CITY STATE STREET MASTER PLANNER. I'D ALSO LIKE TO INTRODUCE STEFANOS WHO'S SITTING NEXT TO ME. STEFANOS PALOZOITIS IS A PARTNER IN MULLEN PALOZOITIS. HE'S ALSO THE DEAN OF ARCHITECTURE AT THE UNIVERSITY OF NOTRE DAME AND IS ONE OF THE FOUNDERS FOR THE CONGRESS OF NEW URBANISM. IT'S BEEN A REAL PLEASURE TO GET TO WORK WITH HIM AND HIS COLLEAGUE CHRIS WHO IS BEHIND US AS WELL. and is also with Mullum Holozoides. We're gonna present the master plan, and for those of you that watched the council meeting, this presentation is very similar, so bear with me on that. There are a couple additional slides, though, in this presentation that focus on SOME OF THE ECONOMIC IMPACTS AND HOUSING IMPACTS. AND STEFANOS IS GOING TO GO INTO SOME OF THE DETAILS ON DESIGN. WE'RE GOING TO KEEP IT SLIGHTLY AT A HIGHER LEVEL FOR PLANNING COMMISSION, BUT STILL GO INTO THOSE DETAILS. THIS IS THE AGENDA FOR THE PRESENTATION, SO I WILL START OFF AND THEN STEFANOS WILL COME IN AND DISCUSS AGAIN THE DESIGN. I want to take a moment again just to highlight all of the efforts of the community, the State Street Advisory Committee, various other groups within Santa Barbara organizations, and then a local architect volunteer group that have been really instrumental in helping us get to where we are today. And so we'll start out with why the State Street Master Plan and why are we doing this project now? It's a question I get a lot. And the plan really sets the design for the future generation, but it also is based in many ways on the general plan and what was said back in the 1960s. It expands upon the pedestrian orientation of State Street that was identified again in the 60s. And really kicking off, I want to emphasize what happened just over a century ago with the earthquake that forced Santa Barbara to really reinvent itself in many ways. And so what you see downtown today is primarily buildings that were built after 1925 in response to that. And that moment gave us the architectural identity that we cherish today. And that is what really makes Santa Barbara, Santa Barbara. And now with this master plan in front of us, it is my opinion that we also stand at another defining moment in the city's history and what our downtown could be and could look like. Part of that is due to the fact that State Street was closed to cars in 2020 as part of the temporary public health measure in response to COVID. But that closure also revealed something that many of us didn't anticipate or expect. And it was that of this sort of community connection, a genuine appetite for a different kind of experience downtown. And you had overnight, you had families coming out, you had cyclists coming out, pedestrians, restaurants, retailers, property owners, people all, if you remember back in the early days, it was that moment where people began to see our downtown State Street with a new vision or new eyes. And in the following years debated very passionately what it should look like and become for impermanence. and wanna reemphasize that while that debate has been something that has been at the forefront of many of us, it also is an emphasis on how much the community cares for this type of environment, a place where everybody is welcome, a place where you can come to go to retail and restaurants and spend money, but a place you also don't have to, something that's different than a traditional park environment, but that in many ways is like a park in the sense that it's open and welcome to anybody. And so emphasizing that the master plan, the purpose of the master plan is a redesign of the street of the 80 feet of right of way in between building frontages on State Street. But it's also the opportunity to create that community intended civic space and a neighborhood that's at the heart of downtown. And something that hopefully will last for the next 100 years as we move forward. AND SO WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT WHEN WE'RE LOOKING AT THE STATE STREET MASTER PLAN, THIS PLAN, THIS SLIDE IS JUST ORIENTING YOU TO THE LOCATION. SO WE'RE TALKING ABOUT STATE STREET FROM GUTIERREZ STREET UP TO SOLA STREET AND CHIPALA TO ANACAPA STREET. IT'S ABOUT A MILE IN LENGTH. And I'll go into some of the key challenges. And Stephanos will talk about these briefly as well. But there are four main challenges that the plan really responds to. So activation gaps, looking at why is it that we have the entertainment section down below and the art section up above that are very much thriving and that center area that is not. Mobility challenges with the tensions that remain unresolved between the various modes of travel. Retail shifts and thinking about what has transpired both from e-commerce as well as from the closure of many of the two major anchors in Paseo Nuevo THE FACT THAT WE HAVE LESS THAN 350 HOUSING UNITS IN THE STUDY AREA, WHICH IS 3% OF THE CITY'S MULTIFAMILY HOUSING STOCK. And aging infrastructure. We haven't done much in the way of our infrastructure over the last 50 years. And yet we also have a foundation that's incredibly strong. You know, our city has been set up in a way, and again, this will be something that in a slide that Stephanos has, he'll talk about the parking and the connection between square footage and parking. But we also... For a city of our size, we have $2.1 billion in tourism spending. We have over a million people that visit State Street and come to visit downtown. And we have over $200 million in contributions to the arts and culture sector, which is really astounding, again, in particular for a city of our size. And we have 3.5 million square feet of total retail inventory. AND SO I'M GOING TO STEP BACK AGAIN TO TALK BRIEFLY ABOUT THE HISTORY. I TALKED ABOUT THE EARTHQUAKE IN 1925 AND THE REASON WHY THAT IS IMPORTANT HERE AND ALSO EMPHASIZING THERE IS A LOT OF HISTORY BEFORE 1925 THAT'S IMPORTANT TO THIS PLAN AND THAT'S IN THE THAT IS DISCUSSED A LITTLE BIT IN THE MASTER PLAN ITSELF, BUT JUST STARTING FROM 1925. Going into 1964, which was with the city's first general plan, and that's when there was first an articulation of a pedestrian-oriented street on State Street itself. That is written out in the general plan. In 1969 is where we started seeing some of that transformation with a plaza streetscape with a six-block plaza from Victoria to Ortega. and then 1972 to 2012 with the redevelopment agency, the expanded plaza, changes in the parking downtown, and then the pedestrian promenade and where we are today. And this slide is just intended to show you that difference between the street in the 1950s and the street after the 1969 streetscape improvement, moving from four lanes with parking on State Street to two lanes of traffic with no parking on the street. I also want to emphasize that each of these, each of these eras, each of these times have been moments in time where we have invested as a city into our downtown and have looked at how our community has changed and what is desired for this public space. Um, And so I'm going to talk about the three distinct districts briefly next. And this is one of the key elements of the State Street Master Plan. It's relatively simple. It's that the plan includes this mile stretch, and that that space should be thought of cohesively And at the same time, there are three different districts and they have their unique elements and they cater to unique needs. And so they should be thought of a little bit differently. And you'll hear about that as we go on. I also want to briefly touch on the engagement that has happened over the last five years for this project and talk about what the community has really told us. Um, engagement spanned from, uh, 2022 to, to 2026 so far. And we had, um, outreach that engaged people in a variety of formats in person online. We had bilingual, um, bilingual engagement. We had engagement fully in Spanish during a few events. Um, as well, we engaged people at farmer's markets at schools, um, in front of grocery stores at churches. at a workshop in the evening. And this slide is just intended to show you what that looked like in numbers. So the amount of different events, we had over 50 events focused on the State Street Master Plan. We had 20 meetings with the State Street Advisory Committee, many other meetings with other groups, including the Planning Commission and other committees and commissions. AND THESE NUMBERS ARE CONTINUING TO GROW AS WE WORK TO FINALIZE THE MASTER PLAN. THIS IS A SLIDE THAT SHOWS YOU FROM PICTURES WHAT SOME OF THOSE ENGAGEMENT EVENTS LOOKED LIKE. WE HAD REALLY A WORKSHOP, SORT OF CHARETTE-STYLE ENGAGEMENT OPPORTUNITY, AND WE'VE HAD A NUMBER OF OPEN HOUSES BRINGING PEOPLE IN TO TALK ABOUT THE PLAN ITSELF. And there were six main things that came from that engagement. And these are the priorities that the community asked us to keep in mind as we were working on moving the plan forward and working to finalize the plan. Enhancing the walkability and the public realm, and we heard over and over widening sidewalks was important. Balancing access for all modes with a strong support for prioritizing walking and cycling. A thriving downtown economy with real concern around vacancies and what downtown should move towards to help eliminate those vacancies. Celebrating what makes State Street unique, safety and quality of life, and that includes better lighting, activated storefronts, cleanliness, and a greener State Street, expanded tree canopy, looking at landscaping and really thinking about it as drought tolerant or native landscaping. And so with those as the guide, I'll move into the vision for what the plan articulates, which is a pedestrian, a flexible pedestrian first state street that's rooted in Santa Barbara's history and is adaptable to its future. And in one sentence, this is another, this is a quote that has come up over and over again that I think is really important because it emphasizes what the master plan is trying to do. And it's Santa Barbara's downtown should invoke a sense of place, a sense of history, and a sense of celebration. THROUGH THAT, THE PLAN CENTERS AROUND TEN GOALS THAT WERE ESTABLISHED BY THE STATE STREET ADVISORY COMMITTEE THAT ARE SHOWN ON THIS SLIDE. I WON'T READ THROUGH ALL OF THEM, BUT EACH OF THESE WERE KEY POINTS THAT WE TRIED TO ENSURE WERE THOUGHT THROUGH IN THE PLAN AS WELL AS IN THE ATTACHMENTS. And so we'll now go into district strategies and policy. I'm going to talk about some of the policy pieces and then Stephanos will talk about the design. So first I want to highlight in terms of housing the suitable sites inventory and what from an existing standpoint what the suitable sites inventory includes both for the central business district as well as for the state straight master plan project area. SO IT INCLUDES 360 UNITS WITHIN THE STATE STREET MASTER PLAN ZONE, WHICH IS WHAT YOU'RE SEEING ON THIS SLIDE HERE. THAT'S 19 SITES THAT ARE HIGHLIGHTED IN BLUE. AND THEN IN THIS SLIDE HERE, THIS IS THE CENTRAL BUSINESS DISTRICT, WHICH IS INCLUSIVE OF THE SLIDE PREVIOUSLY OF THE STATE STREET MASTER PLAN AREA AND IT INCLUDES 80 SITES WITH 2,337 POTENTIAL UNITS. AGAIN, THOSE ARE LISTED IN BLUE. What is important to note in these slides here is that both Paseo Nuevo and all of the city public parking lots are not included in the suitable sites inventory and so those numbers WE WOULD EXPECT THOSE NUMBERS TO INCREASE EVEN MORE SO. WHAT I ALSO WANT TO NOTE IS THERE HAS BEEN SOME WORK DONE JUST FOR WHAT THE EXISTING, SO PENDING APPROVED PROJECTS SINCE 2023 HAVE BEEN AND PROJECTS THAT ARE IN REVIEW RIGHT NOW. AND I BELIEVE THEY'RE AROUND 350 UNITS OR SO WITHIN THE STATE STREET MASTER PLAN AREA. This slide here shows you the AUD incentive program and the density tiers around it. And the reason I'm showing this is just because the map is intended to emphasize the priority housing overlay and the location for high density as part of the AUD program are both right within the master plan area. So this is the area where we expect to have significant new housing development. And then this slide here is just showing where the AB 2097 boundaries are located. And again, AB 2097, there's a variety of things, of benefits of AB 2097. But in my opinion, one of them is that it doesn't require parking in downtown, which encourages alternative transportation. AND DEVELOPMENT THAT'S CLOSE TO SERVICES. AND AGAIN, YOU SEE IN THIS MAP HERE, YOU SEE THE MTD TRANSIT CENTER THAT'S RIGHT JUST SHY OF BEING WITHIN THE MASTER PLAN BOUNDARY AND THEN THE AMTRAK STATION AS WELL RIGHT ON THE EDGE OF THE MASTER PLAN BOUNDARY. This slide shows just the different related plans and policies. There's many different policies within the city that emphasize this project and the needs that are associated with the State Street Master Plan. And in the staff report, I go through it in a little bit of detail and then followed in, I think it was the fourth attachment, some of the applicable policies in our general plan. And it's, you know, it's not just land use. There's also, you know, public health, art, culture, economic development, infrastructure needs, the integration of natural resources, historic resources, that a project is located within the downtown and lower state street neighborhoods, an emphasis of mixed uses and THE EMPHASIS FOR MORE HOUSING IN THE DOWNTOWN CORE. AND I WANT TO TOUCH BRIEFLY ON SOME OF THE ECONOMIC ANALYSIS THAT WAS DONE. SOME OF THIS WAS DONE EARLIER IN THE PROJECT, BUT THIS SLIDE TALKS ABOUT A COUPLE OF CASE STUDIES THAT WE LOOKED AT, AND WE LOOKED AT A NUMBER. THE REASON I'M INCLUDING THESE ONES FOR GREENVILLE AND SOUTH CAROLINA I found it really interesting that 25% of their downtown residential units are right on their main street. And that is a trend that is seen nationally that really our percentage of housing in our downtown core is is extremely small when you compare other downtowns. So this is a higher level, but many downtowns, looking at what our central business district is, are aiming for a 20 to 25% housing stock within that area. And then there are other things that communities are doing, and some of that came out from the key findings that some of the economic consultants have looked at. So this slide talks about, um, both the challenges and some of the opportunities that exist. Um, when you look at economic development and, um, analyze really what additional demand is needed or what additional demand exists, both for housing and for investment in landscaping and the importance of, of doing some of the things that are outside of the design itself of the plan. IN PARTICULAR, IT TALKS ABOUT DIVERSIFYING LAND USES AND REDUCING BARRIERS TO DEVELOPMENT. SO SOME OF THESE ARE RELATED TO DESIGN, BUT SOME OF THEM ARE AROUND POLICY. AND SOME OF THESE ARE THINGS THAT WE HAVE ALREADY DONE IN THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS, LIKE FACILITATING ADAPTIVE REUSE OF EXISTING STRUCTURES IN THE DOWNTOWN CORE. THAT WAS A CRITICAL PIECE THAT IS GREAT TO SEE OVER THE FINISH LINE. And enhancing funding for affordable housing similarly with a local housing trust fund but looking at other opportunities for housing The photo on the right just shows the breakdown in terms of square footage for what we see in the downtown core And some more recommendations that I that exist, this is coming from Appendix F of the plan, growing existing business and cultivating new investment, catalyzing housing construction, and creating a business friendly city government. And so I'll turn it over now to Stephanos who will walk us through the plan.

Thank you, Tess, and good afternoon, members of the Commission. I will not repeat much of what you said. Sometimes I may focus on a point or two because it's particularly important, but I would like to speak mostly about the vision and some of its technical dimensions. It is very important as we begin this discussion to think about what has transpired here over the last more than 100 years, close to 150 years. And think about what precipitated all these changes. Retail is the most finicky of all uses in cities. Means of mobility change, the carriers themselves, the vehicles change, people's social behavior changes, opportunities for commerce change, all these things. over this period of time from 1867, you can see here, to today, have precipitated some kind of shift or another in the form of State Street. This street has just not stayed still. And most important of all, there are two important things. It has always had some means of mobility in it since the beginning. And secondly, it was never completely closed down, even in the 1970s when this was a very popular thing, shutting down main streets and turning them into pedestrian malls. It always was a place where the modes were balanced, and that I think is probably a principle that we need to keep in mind as we look at the future of the street in the short run, maybe in the medium and long run as well. Tess, you showed this slide, and it is important to note that that this commercial center of this great city is longer than most. Typically, American main streets are three blocks long, 1,000 to 1,200 feet long. This street is a mile long. And the way it has survived and prospered over time is by developing a different character along its way and having this character reinforced First of all, by its position between the mountains and the sea, which is a very privileged position on the road from LA and from the north as well. And also from the superb architecture of its physical shell, which is really probably one of the best in the nation, certainly the best one in California. So we do have these three districts. And the reason they have prospered is because They are balanced to some extent over time by uses, civic, commercial, and others. they're also serviced by an almost equivalent number of cars, a number of cars that is equivalent to the density of uses on a per block and per district area. So you have in place an enormous asset, a double asset, the buildings themselves, of course the reputation of State Street as the city's downtown, and also the tremendous investment in parking over the years that has allowed this to be the case. There are many other issues about it, and I'm not going to go in great depth here, but there is the prominence of commercial zoning in the area. There are many civic and landmark buildings. The parking, of course, is ample. There is servicing potential from the back of many of the buildings. There is a bicycle network along and across the street. transit on and on either side of the street, and there's a dearth of open space and streetscape, something I think that we'll continue to discuss, if you wish, after the presentation. We enter this process at the end of a very robust public process that resulted in a state of affairs where there was no clear decision about whether this would be an open or closed street. And so we did some outreach ourselves and came upon the clear understanding that mobility transportation, retail issues, commercial retail issues, issues of civil engineering, particularly in water, run of containment, and the question of landscape, those issues were really fundamental in the process. in the past as conditions fundamental to the future in terms of their resolution. So we came upon the very simple notion, looking at other American and European cities, about the possible prospect of bridging the two opposing perspectives about closing or opening the state with a third alternative, which was the possibility of a flex street. And a flex street is a street that accommodates is multimodal and is sometimes closed and sometimes open, depending on the circumstances. So it depends on a clear access schedule, a very instantaneous method of operations and a steady method of operations, on an open phase and a closed phase, one that favors pedestrians and cyclists and other that faces business and service interests. and then results in reduced traffic conflicts and provides infrastructure for larger civic events and festivals. So this is how this very simple idea works. I think you can see my cursor as well. And the fixed aspect of this design, the one that could not in any way be reduced, was there have to be two travel lanes in the middle, which have to do with emergency vehicles, police, and fire having 24-hour access to the street, because that's how those would reach the buildings and the people on either side along the nine blocks. If we took those four as fixed, we needed about three more feet of loose space on either side of the stand for the emergency clearance of 26 feet. We then had on either side a sidewalk of 30 feet, including the three that I just mentioned, that would generate, I think, an environment where the where the street would be seen very much like a park with very clear visibility and view and access from side to side, where the current strength of the street, which is its sidewalk, presence of significant landscape would be advanced. We'd have to remove probably all of the lower place landscape in order not to block this general movement right to left. And we would keep, in the top three and bottom three blocks, we would keep the streetscape and reinforces as it was when the middle one, we would start over with a new streetscape that I'm going to describe to you in a moment. So in this first view, of how this street works in the future with ample sidewalks. We provide for extreme pedestrian safety during the day. Bicyclists and transit circulate in the middle 20 feet in two wide lanes. There's positive street frontages everywhere, and emergency access is allowed. This drawing is very similar, and it shows night movement, nighttime operations. Notice that this is in the middle three blocks in the civic portion of the street, These are the sycamores that we're planning to plant. Again, the zoning stays the same, as I mentioned, but there's service and drop-off possibilities that open up now from the street in support of both retail and construction. There are very low speeds because of the tightness of the lanes. There is lighting at night, both on sidewalks and across the lanes. There is provision for stormwater drainage underneath the street that resolves the flooding issues on the street, and there's a possibility for special events in the evening. Particularly notable is the way in which the zoning on the street ends up resolving a number of issues, the issues I just spoke about, but also conforms at the same time to regulations. Regulations have to do with zoning and with with transportation. For example, the 10-foot lanes are narrow but absolutely legitimate. You can see the bollards in the middle that keep the street open and closed as necessary. AND THERE IS A 12-FOOT FRONTAGE AND 11-FOOT PEDESTRIAN ZONE THAT IS SOMETIMES INTERRUPTED BY TREES, AND THEN A 4-FOOT ZONE FOR STORAGE AND SPECIAL ACTIVITIES, THE 3-FOOT OPEN PIECE FOR THE COMPLETION OF THE 26-FOOT SERVICE LANE, AND THEN EVERYTHING ELSE IS REPEATED ON THE OTHER SIDE. The design of streets that are controlled by bollards is not very common in America. There's a number of important places we could visit and look at and understand. But it's very, very common in Europe, and particularly in large European centers, the number of people in the street is so large that streets cannot operate anymore as being car dominated. So they become people dominated by the possibility of service at night. And you can see some examples here. Most of these bollards are retractable and controllable electronically by a variety of players, by the way. I mean, in taxis in Europe have it. In the United States, police, fire, service vehicles and so on would have it as well. One of the important things about the design of the project as we began to think about it is that it needs to remain as general as possible, accommodating, of course, activities of kinds that are connected to particular places. But it has to be general because it has to really respond to a great number of motivations about what one does on a street like this. There's a very poor record in American landscape design about making plazas and squares overly designed, so much so that they cannot be used very flexibly. So the openness is important. We're assuming that people are going to walk on the street. They're going to go up and down and enjoy the place just being there. They're going to sit down and dine. They're going to be biking up and down. They're going to be visiting various destinations. Kids will be playing, adults too, I guess. They'll be going to festivals, listening to music, attending the theater. There will be street vending. There will be enjoyment of art in and around buildings. And there are probably many more activities. And it is really important to strike this balance between specifying the nature of the street in places and leaving it open in others. This is a very generalized diagram of our intentions. You can see that the 400 block remains open with bicycle lanes. because of the wishes of the police and fire departments. The Haley and Gutierrez are being used as roads that allow service vehicles rapidly access the street east-west and then turn right to get to the four points that lead them to the beach. So there's more than a request, it's a requirement. And then you can see how the sidewalks are enlarged to 30 feet on either side everywhere with the landscapes on the top half and the bottom half of the street, three blocks at a time. maintaining the streetscape that they have and being refreshed and renewed by keeping pretty much their image and presence the way it is. While in the middle three blocks, which is a civic and commercial center, we get the sycamore alleys, which are typical of great Mediterranean streets and squares and which will prosper here and generate a completely unique environment over time. Some important specimen trees on this central portion are not removed. There is pedestrian crossings in places. There is little setbacks for the vehicles that carry people back and forth, the electric vehicles, transit vehicles that carry people to the beach and so on. The right of way is is a complex, presents a complex design schedule and issue. We're hoping that in the areas, the bottom three and the top three blocks will continue and finish the brick pattern that's in place. In the middle block, three blocks, we may want to take the right of way and finish it in stone perhaps. We hope for special crosswalk and intersection designs, as you see in the image in the middle. We're hoping that the actual texture of the streets will keep the speeding bicyclists on a portion of them and limit their ability to speed up. And in response to some of the comments that were made, we also think that raising the intersections is an issue that we'll probably study further, but we decided not to do it because it interferes with both water conveyance and also the speed of cars going in both directions, the regular cars east-west and police and fire cars north-south. There are details that are exceptionally important also that have to do with planting. This is one of the very famous streets of the Mediterranean, the Cour Mirabeau in Aix-en-Provence in France. In southern France, you can see these are sycamore trees that are probably 200 years old, and there are They cover the street fully. They're quite magnificent. There's a possibility for sidewalk furnishings and benches. As I said before, keeping the existing landscape by and large in six of the nine blocks, dining zones with standardized barriers, ample lighting, and so on, and many more details, I think. This This project to date has been more a project of trying to come up with an idea than actually resolving every single one of its design dimensions. I think there may be other issues to take into consideration. Some of them might come with discussion with you. So this is actually how this particular design notion would resolve itself on the street. This is a part of the street in the center, I believe, in the center portion. And this is the existing configuration with a right-of-way being dominated by blacktop, by cars, in other words. And this is what it would look like in the in the scheme as proposed. You can see that there are, these are the 20-foot lanes, 10 and 10, the speedy bicycles in the middle, slower bicycles on the edges, the three feet on either side for the 26 of service, for service vehicles, and four feet of various other activities, bikes, benches, et cetera, et cetera, trees being planted as well. And then you can also see here the transit vehicles, electric transit vehicles, occupying the same lane as the speedy bicycles. The next slide shows a portion of the street in the north, again, very much dominated by by cars and blacktop almost taking two-thirds of its space. And this is the new version with a completion of the brick sidewalks, roll-up curbs, and a clear delineation of where and how the street is to be used. And with free potential passage east to west across. And an indication of how... special activities could happen. This is the existing condition and this is the condition in the future. And it was important for us to also give you a sense, you know, a view, an understanding of how this would result from a design point of view not only in the portions, center in the portions where vehicles move, but also addressing the areas where pedestrians are. And this is what a typical sidewalk would look like in the future. This is in front of Santa Barbara Hotel in the southern portion. We have based these recommendations on a very extensive landscape report and a landscape consultancy has allowed us to conserve what should be conserved and to replant what needs to be replanted, including the Sycamore Alley. We have tried to indicate that there are possibilities, as you can see in this very abstract diagram, within the project area for new and important definitions of public space. Some of them very formal, as in the case of the Plaza de la Guerra, and some maybe less so, but equally important, if not vital. And it will probably be in those places that would be special community-based activities and not so much in the street itself. The whole project would be moot if this was probably one of the most unusual cases in the country of a use of a public street by bicyclists. There's about 2,000 bicyclists a day on the street in the summer, sometimes more. And so that was enough evidence, I think, for us to consider to both balance the street and to to attempt to separate its use by day and night, the exact hours of this change to be resolved later. This is a very interesting diagram that shows the degree of work that needs to be done in order to contain the issue of flooding. It essentially consists of building an underground storage area. that you can see here, including some of the projected sidewalks and across the entire street. The camber of the street is to be changed from being concave to being convex. It's currently shifting away the water to the edges. And it would contain the water. And the water would then percolate much more easily into the underground. And finally, the issue of retail on this corridor, we proposed through our retail consultant some of the key issues that would be, would be, have been, will be extraordinarily important Maintaining the primacy of the street is a great destination. Access and signage, parking, surface and structured, streetscape and landscape, retail, dining and entertainment, outdoors, mix of public programming, constant public programming in the future, housing, quality of storefronts, transit, lighting, safety, and probably even more. And so I've spoken rapidly, but I would like to pay some attention to this couple of last images. This is an idea, and this is a proposal for how the street could evolve. But I think there's a whole lot that the city can do above and beyond just the reconstruction of the street. The reconstruction of the street would not in itself guarantee success. There would have to be a number of measures, I think. that need to be studied, need to be understood as being potential contributors to that success. The wide selection of businesses and brands to occupy more and more defined three sections of the street. When we did the downtown of Beverly Hills and were involved 10, 15 years ago in ripping out the entire street and reclaiming it in a particular form, The three-way distinction of that downtown proved to be enormously successful, only because the city insisted that the international business came to the international portion, the national to the national, and the local to the local. Block and block management, I think, terribly important to make sure that The streets are safe and clean and green. Implementing a way-finding system, I think, is essential, particularly because if one parks, how one gets here by car is important. Also, when one parks, I think it's terribly important to find one's way easily into the street. Continuing the support of a business improvement district is vital. Parking management is extremely important, and differentiating hours of paid versus unpaid parking. I think converting Anacapa and Chapala, Haley and Gutierrez into two-way streets is a very important thing to do. One of the great confusions about being in Santa Barbara, speaking as a visitor, is that one arrives and it is almost impossible to go through the city, know where things are, and exit in a way that makes any sense at all. So that question, what effect it might have on the on the translation of this plan into a robust retail environment is very important. Repurposing various facilities for civic and residential uses is important. Public programming essential. A specific plan or a redo of your codes to think about accelerating infield housing, also crucial. And we've heard over and over and over, also through our process, but other processes that we have attended in parallel, that the time necessary to issue retail license on the street needs to be reduced and the system has to be deregulated enough to allow for people to be more eager than they are now to come and locate here. So I'm not going to read the last piece, but I will say that not only does the plan as proposed make sense from the perspective of the current conditions, but it's really, it finds itself on the vector of design decisions made over the last six, 70 years that really have to do with balancing modes, the modes that are relevant at all these times. And also, and also keeping the landscape as a prime presence. As you know, most streets we took away cars in their entirety did not succeed, except for some very rare cases of 200 or 300 examples. Only about 30 or 40 are still extant in the country. But this is not one of these cases. It was never a closed street. and it will not again be a closed street. It's a special street, particularly focused on the character of Santa Barbara, the way you use it as natives and regular users and those who also come from afar as well. 1.3 million people should be getting an awful lot more income and tax benefit, which then would generate all kinds of possibilities for for expenditures within town. So I think this is a critical subject, balancing the use of modes, advancing the economic vitality of the street, and making sure that housing follows in large numbers are three issues, I think, that are at the core of the solution. And I would be more than happy to answer questions. One of the important things that we've done for you, because we received some of the letters that came in, and we didn't see them all, but one of them needed a response through a diagram for you to understand. There was discussion about a flat scheme in its entirety, all nine blocks, during a previous charrette. And when we actually went through, there were two issues, I think, in our mind would not speak positively about this idea. One of them is that There is difficulty in containing the water as it's running downhill. And there's also, as you can see from the hydraulic capacity, the old curve has a significantly higher capacity to keep the water than the flat. And so that, I think, is one thing. And the other one is we took one of the perspectives. We introduced a light permanent bollard every five feet, which we require to keep bicycles and cars off the pedestrians in the sidewalks. And that would generate a forest of bollards that would really negate the idea that this is a place where people can circulate across. So these two factors are important enough to pretty much disqualify that notion. I'm sure there are other questions. I'd be absolutely delighted to engage you.

Thank you, Stephanos. I'm going to go in, I'm going to touch just quickly on the implementation section, but certainly as questions come up, I'm happy to come back to these slides and talk in more detail. To start off, there are three phases that were identified in Chapter 6 of the Master Plan, and they're listed on this slide here. Really, the first phase is making sure that we're advancing the detailed engineering and construction level design work and moving into actual reconstruction and then doing two of the districts in the second phase and the final district in the third phase. The question that I get all the time is how do we pay for the project and what is the cost and how is the city going to do this? And the total cost at a very high level is roughly six to eight million dollars a block. If you look at it at the eight block scale, it ranges from about 48 to 64 million dollars. I will also note though that PUTTING THAT INTO CONTEXT, THIS IS A GENERATIONAL INVESTMENT INTO DOWNTOWN, AND THOSE NUMBERS ARE SIMILAR TO WHAT OTHER CITY CAPITAL PROJECTS INVEST IN VARIOUS FACETS. SO WHEN YOU LOOK AT DIFFERENT PROJECTS THAT HAVE BEEN RECENTLY COMPLETED FOR THE CITY, AND I WON'T LIST THEM OFF SPECIFICALLY OR THAT ARE IN CONSTRUCTION, THIS NUMBER IS NOT FAR OFF FROM WHAT OTHER PROJECTS HAVE BEEN. It's also important to note that it's not going to be funded from a single source. And so that is something that often I think just gets touched upon. It's also in one of the policies that I listed for the general plan, there is a policy that talks about diversifying funding and looking for a variety of funding sources. And that's what we anticipate for this project. One right now that we are looking at is the active transportation program. AND A GRANT OPPORTUNITY FOR THE DETAILED ENGINEERING AND CONSTRUCTION LEVEL WORK. SO THE CITY WILL BE PURSUING THAT GRANT. THERE ARE OTHER GRANTS OUT THERE AS WELL. THERE'S AN URBAN GREENING GRANT THAT COULD HELP WITH SOME OF THE STORMWATER INFRASTRUCTURE. SOME OF THIS FUNDING WOULD COME FROM THE CITY'S CAPITAL BUDGET, SO THAT IS EXPECTED. Some of it may come from a bond, depending on how we're funding the rest of the projects through grants and other federal and state opportunities. There has been an interest in some philanthropic investment, and so that is something that we would look at in the future. And then the idea of a property assessment, district expansion, or a hotel tax. or parking revenue reinvestments. And there's others too. These are sort of the main ones, but there are other funding sources as well. So I just want to highlight that there. With funding, it's also important to note that out of that $6 to $8 million a block, about half of the project cost will be costs that you won't see. It'll be the stormwater infrastructure and the utility upgrade work. And those are both critical needs that should happen regardless of whether this master plan moves forward or not. We have, between Carrillo and Cota Street, we don't have any underground stormwater infrastructure at all. So that's a missing, it's a missing element in our downtown core. WHEN WE'RE LOOKING AT OPPORTUNITIES FOR HOUSING DOWNTOWN, ONE OF THE BIGGEST CHALLENGES WE OFTEN HEAR IS THAT PROJECTS STRUGGLE WITH MEETING OUR STORM WATER REQUIREMENTS BECAUSE THEY'RE LOT LINE TO LOT LINE. SO WE'RE LOOKING AT AN IN-LOOF FEE PROGRAM WITH A CENTRALIZED STORM WATER PROJECT WHERE A PROPERTY OWNER COULD PAY INTO A FUND. And so if we want to do housing downtown, that's something that, from a staff standpoint, certainly something to consider moving forward, again, regardless of if this project overall was to move forward or not. And then in terms of utility infrastructure, we have done some analysis on each of the blocks, and each of the blocks have different locations for the utility lines that exist. on one block, the gas line might be on one side, and then it's on in the middle or on a different portion of the street. Same with the other utilities, water, sewer, electric. And so one of the things we would want to really look at is the opportunity to place the utilities into what's called the utilidor, essentially concentrate all the utilities into one location. It also would mean that When work needs to be done, it's only being done in one location and you're not ripping up the whole street or different segments of the street. And so that also is something that we believe would be important to do when we're looking, again, at creating a neighborhood downtown and upgrading utilities more broadly. And then I'll talk briefly in Chapter 6. There's an action items table or matrix that organizes ITEMS BY TIMEFRAME, LIKE SHORT-TERM, MEDIUM, LONG-TERM, AND BY CATEGORY. AND SO THIS SLIDE SHOWS SOME EXAMPLES OF SOME OF THOSE ITEMS. BUT THERE'S MUCH MORE IN THE MASTER PLAN. I BELIEVE IT STARTS ON PAGE 147. AND IT GOES THROUGH PLANNING AND REGULATORY ACTIONS, OPPORTUNITIES FOR THINGS TO BE LOOKING AT, AS WELL AS CAPITAL PROJECTS, THINGS LIKE BOLLARD INFRASTRUCTURE AND STATE STREET THE OVERALL RECONSTRUCTION OF STATE STREET. AND THE POINT OF THE ACTION ITEM MATRIX IS TO GIVE BOTH COUNCIL AND STAFF A CLEAR ROAD MAP OF WHAT SHOULD BE GETTING DONE WHEN AND BY WHOM AND WITH WHAT RESOURCES. AND IT'S A REALLY IMPORTANT PIECE BECAUSE THIS PROJECT Both I think Stefanos would tell you along with me. It's really important to move this project in a while it's in three different phases to expedite it in many ways that this project could go on in construction for decades, but it really shouldn't if we're gonna do it we should be doing it and really think making sure we have that investment and funding in place and a really clear pathway for how to move from phase one to two to three to get it all done and in a fast enough time frame where then we can start to see that other private reinvestment into our downtown. I apologize first for the slide. This has a lot of text and I hate putting slides up like this except I wanted to show you what happened at council SO I'M REALLY JUST GOING TO READ THIS ONE OFF SO YOU CAN HEAR FROM ME. SO ONE OF THE ACTIONS WAS TO RECEIVE THE DRAFT PLAN AS THE PRIMARY FRAMEWORK FOR THE LONG-TERM REVITALIZATION OF THE STATE STREET CORRIDOR. THAT WAS VOTED 7-0. THE NEXT ONE WAS DOES THE COUNCIL ENDORSE THE FLEXIBLE PEDESTRIAN FIRST STATE STREET PASSEO VISION AND THE FOUR GUIDING PRINCIPLES AND TEN GOALS AS THE FRAMEWORK FOR THE PLAN. and that passed six to one. The next was, does council support the flexible design approach with 30 foot sidewalks and a 20 foot travel lane and emergency access area? And that was voted on with five yeses, one abstention and one voting no. Does council support the civic and commercial district as the first priority investment zone and including passive space, making these three blocks special and including an anchor design element? And that was voted on six to one. And then does council support incorporating 1,000 to 2,000 new housing units in the master plan area, including redevelopment of city-owned parking lots with housing above parking? And that was voted seven to zero. A couple other things, not on this slide, our council did direct staff to come before planning commission, which is, you know, we are here today for that, along with other committees and commissions during the public comment period. The public comment period also will last until June 30th, so any member of the public is welcome to submit their comments. They can submit them in writing, either via email, or they can drop them off to City Hall. And then council requested that staff come back after going through the different commissions and committees with the final plan in the summer. So this is really the conclusion. You know, what I want to emphasize here is that the master plan is identifying a conceptual design. It's not the final engineering work. It's not the final design-level details, but it's enough of a conceptual design to move the implementation timeline forward and to get us into an engineering and detailed construction-level drawing project. And we are really seeking comments from the commission today, and the next... SLIDE INCLUDES SOME OF THE DIRECTION THAT'S REQUESTED THAT WAS ALSO IN THE STAFF REPORTS. THERE'S A NUMBER OF QUESTIONS SIMILAR TO WHAT WE ASKED THE COUNCIL. AND ALSO, YOU KNOW, WHETHER YOU AGREE WITH ACTION ITEMS THAT WERE IN THE IMPLEMENTATION CHAPTER AND IF THERE ARE ANY OTHER AREAS OR THINGS THAT AS THE PLANNING COMMISSION YOU THINK THAT STAFF SHOULD BE EXPLORING FURTHER BEFORE FINALIZING THE PLAN. AND I WILL JUST LEAVE YOU WITH THIS PICTURE, REALLY, WHICH TO ME, YOU KNOW, AS THE CIVIC AND COMMERCIAL DISTRICT, OVER THE YEARS IN WORKING ON THIS PROJECT, THAT IS THAT MISSING PIECE FOR OUR DOWNTOWN. MORE WHOLLY ALL OF STATE STREET, BUT REALLY THIS DISTRICT. COULD BECOME AN AMAZING ANCHOR DOWNTOWN. I THINK THE LANDSCAPING THAT WE THOUGHT THROUGH WITH THE ALLAY OF TREES WHERE YOU START TO SEE THAT HERE BUT COULD BE THIS REALLY STUNNING GATEWAY INTO THE CIVIC CORE WITH OPPORTUNITIES AT PASEO NUEVO AND OPPORTUNITIES with City Hall and De La Guerra Plaza just starts to become not just a street, but more of a wider district. And so with that, that concludes staff's presentation. And if you have questions or comments, we're happy to answer them.

Thank you so much. Appreciate the presentation. Before moving into public comment, I'll give my fellow commissioners fair warning on, I think, how we'll structure this and how we'll provide feedback. So staff has asked for clear direction in specific areas. That was on page four of our staff report and two slides ago in the presentation. So we'll ask our questions first, ideally in order of these questions, if you have them that way. And then we will take a break. And then we'll provide comments in order in the staff report and on the slides. So for example, first, we will all answer or give our comments on vision and guiding principles. then we'll each give our comments on design approach if that's kind of what staff is looking for. Okay, great. So you've all been warned. All right. So that takes us to comments from members of the public pertaining to this specific item. Ms. Carman, do we have anyone in person? We do. Or remote who would like to give public comment?

Thank you, Chair Boss. Yes, I do have a couple speaker slips for in-person public comment. First, I have, and I'm sorry if I butcher your last name, Sarah Yannarone. Perfect. And Barry Remus, you have donated your time to her, so you can have five minutes. So I'll put five minutes on the clock for you. Perfect. Thank you. Can you hear me?

How's that? Perfect. That's good? Okay. Thank you. Good afternoon, Chair, boss, and commissioners. My name is Sarah Iannarone. I'm the new executive director of MOVE Santa Barbara County, your local voice for people who walk, bike, roll, and go by public transit. Thank you for your hard work on this project to date and to everyone who's contributed many hours and even years of work to this effort. By way of introduction, I did my doctoral studies in urban planning at Portland State University, where I helped establish an international livable cities policy transfer and best practices exchanged. I have presented to thousands of urban leaders across the United States and lectured in Canada, the UK, Brazil, China, and Korea on sustainable development and urban placemaking. I may be relatively new to Santa Barbara, but I do bring a global perspective on what makes streets like State Street thrive, and I am honored to share my perspective with your commission today. I want to share personally that the potential of State Street is part of what attracted me to relocate to Santa Barbara. I immediately recognized this as a world-class corridor where I wanted to be and a place that could become a global destination in itself, anchoring Santa Barbara's identity for future generations. And that is within reach, but only if we make the right choices today. I want to address the business access concerns head on, and thank you for working to preserve bicycle access, because the research is clear. Studies have shown that people who arrive by bike spend more per month at bars, restaurants, and stores than people who drive. They visit more often. Auto drivers consistently spent the least per person per month compared to people who biked, walked, or took transits. A street designed for people who go by bike is not a threat to local business. It is a customer delivery system. And as we well know, State Street also functions as a vital commuter corridor. Riders use it to access nearby transit and rail stations. Workers travel it daily to reach jobs, including many who have service jobs where they're commuting during the more dangerous dark hours. People who can't or don't drive rely on this corridor for their daily errands. I am confident that we can reduce intermodal conflicts on street and at intersections by reducing speed limits for all conveyances. That said, your final directions on this plan must help hold us all accountable for implementation of a State Street Master Plan that is as successful for people who walk, bike, roll, and go by public transportation as it is for adjacent property owners. And finally, a word on financing. This plan does name equity as a core value, and MOVE takes that commitment seriously. Assessment districts and bond mechanisms are powerful tools to help bring this plan to life, but major infrastructure investments can drive up property values in ways that push costs onto small business tenants and working class residents. The plan's peer city research surfaces displacement as a concern worth addressing, but it doesn't follow through with proactive recommendations. We encourage city of Santa Barbara to conduct an explicitly equity centered analysis of the financing strategy before it is adopted. One that identifies who bears the redevelopment cost burdens, how low income residents, small business tenants, and active transportation users will be protected from displacement, and what role CDBG and community benefits tools might play. State Street is poised to be a world class facility and even institution. I think people will travel from around the world just to see it, and MOVE is ready to help you get there. And just as a final note, I want to underscore that I share the assessment that one-way streets really do function as shuttling people through our city. And really if we want to create a place that people come to shop locally and support vibrant streets, we really should consider those two-way streets and bringing those back to our community. Thank you for hearing my testimony. Please don't hesitate to reach out to MOVE for your support in this project advancement at any time. And I look forward to hearing what you discussed today.

Thank you. Next, I do have Sullivan Israel. And I do also have you on Zoom. Does this mean you will... I'm here. Okay, perfect.

Yeah, I didn't know if I'd get away during my lunch break or not. Hello, Planning Commission. It's an absolute honor to be here. Before I talk about State Street, though, wondering if you guys could have a motion about making these seats more comfortable, because this is... The second time I've sat here for so long. Anyway, I'm not representing just myself today. I'm representing Strong Towns, which has almost 500 members, as well as the 2,500 plus signatories of our State Street petition, which explicitly asked people to sign it if they agreed that State Street should never have cars on it. I wish more of my friends and fellow members could come, but it is hard at this time of day. Um, a few months ago, I stood here at this podium in front of city council and I encouraged city council to contract with Moolen Polyzoitis for this project. Not only do I not regret making that comment, I'm so happy that I did and that they voted for it because I think we have a amazing product here. Um, the study that they did of our community clearly shows that they paid attention, whether it's through calling out bikes and how important that is to us or our history and all the historic images, which Santa Barbara's care a lot about. So I think it's fantastic. The designs they suggest are fantastic. And so if I'm going to try and represent the viewpoints of all those people that I'm trying to represent today, it's mostly very, very positive. People are very, very excited about this project. They love the expanded sidewalks, the trees, the increased shade cover, accommodating bikes rather than trying to push them onto a side street as others have suggested. There are some concerns, though, that I would like to share. And it's probably not a surprise that they still center around cars on State Street. As beautiful as the renderings in this plan are, you may have noticed that there are no 3D representations of what it would look like with cars on it, despite the fact that this plan, this design would allow for that. And it's probably because people don't really want to look at that. It's not a very attractive thing to look at, cars on State Street, and it wouldn't be in the future either. City Council decided not to continue the language of allowing cars from 10 p.m. to 10 a.m. That's when it was most dangerous to have cars in the past and would definitely be in the future. So then it's kind of a catch-22 because if you don't want to allow them during the most dangerous time, you don't want to allow them during the day, sounds like you don't want to allow them at all, which is, I think, the best decision and what all the members of Strong Towns and all the people who signed that petition also think. So I would like to ask you the non-radical way to go forward with that is to have you recommend that cars are never allowed on the street, of course, other than deliveries and emergency vehicles. The more radical request would be to maybe pursue flat and flexible design, which would, of course, cost more. And I understand why that might be problematic. But overall, again, we love this plan. Just a few concerns and many more details about them in the letter that we sent in, which we all wrote together. Thank you very much.

Thank you. With that, I don't have any more speaker slips for in-person public comment. If anyone would like to speak, you can approach the podium at this time. Otherwise, I will close it out by acknowledging we received written correspondence from Kevin Heim, Bruce Caron, Erin Richter, Strongtown Santa Barbara, Nick, Brett Rietveld, Christian Lietzow, and Lily Heiger. I'll give it back to you.

Great, thank you. I will open it up to my fellow commissioners for questions and after that we'll move to comments. No one has any questions. All right. We'll start with Vice Chair DiLuccio.

I see my name on top. I'm going to go first because sometimes this goes on and on and then I don't get a chance to really ask some of the questions I want. I wanna thank you for this, this is like amazing. And there's one thing missing on this slide. Acknowledgement to you Tess over and over again and to our designer here of this great thing. I am actually, I lived in West Hollywood and the past weekend I was in Beverly Hills on that beautiful street there. I was also at the, I'm gonna lead up to a question, to the Grove also. And while the Grove doesn't have bicycles on it. It has a tram that runs back and forth. And at the same time, there's a lot of folks still walking the street. And there's not the conflict. They sort of negotiate each other where the tram is coming and the people are walking. So I guess the question is, with the bikes coming down the street, can I imagine that there'll still be people wanting to walk in the street? So how do you respond to that?

Commissioner DiLuccio, thank you for the question. I think first how I would respond to that is that with this design, we essentially double the sidewalk space on either side. So we'd have 60 out of 80 feet of space would be dedicated solely to pedestrian use, and that would be INTENTIONALLY, THAT WOULD BE WHERE WE WOULD ANTICIPATE MANY PEDESTRIANS TO BE. THERE CERTAINLY COULD BE TIMES AND LIKELY WOULD BE WHERE PEOPLE ARE CROSSING FROM ONE SIDE TO ANOTHER AND CHOOSING NOT TO USE THE MID-BLOCK CROSSWALK OR THE END CROSSWALKS AND MANEUVERING IN THAT SPACE, BUT WE DO ANTICIPATE THAT THE 20 FEET IN THE MIDDLE WOULD PRIMARILY BE USED FOR BICYCLES, TRANSIT, OR VEHICLES, DEPENDING ON DIFFERENT TIMES AND NOT NECESSARILY A SPACE FOR PEDESTRIANS. And I think what I also want to highlight or what's important to note is just the sheer number of bicycles that we have seen on State Street itself. So in the last count, which was on a Wednesday, so midweek, there were about 2,000 cyclists going through an intersection on State Street. And that is a pretty... STANDARD NUMBER WHEN WE'VE LOOKED ALSO AT THE UNDERCROSSING AS WELL, THAT IS HIGHER. IT'S BEEN ABOUT 2500 MORE RECENTLY, BUT 2000 TO 2500 bikes on State Street is a large number and is certainly larger than we saw previously. And so in some ways just want to highlight that there's an importance there as well for infrastructure that would allow for cyclist movement and that's what the 20 feet of space would allow.

Okay, my next question has to do with bicycles. Before the street was closed, there was 9,400 vehicle volume count approximately on the street. Now there's 2,400 bicycles, which is cool, fine. But I don't, was a study, has a circulation study been completed? I know that there's some slides here with some, that some initial work has been done, but I guess where I'm going with this, I know they wanna make, you're proposing to make some of the streets two ways, some of the side streets, Chapala and Anacapa, et cetera. I don't feel right now that the streets are totally congested, considering that State Street is closed. But when this is reinvented, that could change things. So the objective, I guess, is to get more traffic down to State Street, and there's going to be more cars. So is it opening up two ways? Is that the reason why you'd want to make it two ways, to help the traffic flow and And did they do a circulation analysis?

Commissioner DiLuccio, Appendix C in the State Street Master Plan is the technical report for transportation, and it includes some elements that you touched on. What it does not include is the analysis for going from one-way to two-way lanes for Chapala, Anacapa, Haley, and Gutierrez. That's a recommendation that came from the consulting team and that our team needs to study a little bit further before we go into more detail on whether that's something we would want to do. The costs associated with that are also not included in what I shared today. And so it's a different project, a related project, but different. And the city would need to determine whether we'd be ready to move forward with something like that.

I did see the appendix. It wasn't very much on transportation in there. And then also in the appendix, there was something on parades. Is that parade procedure? Is that something that hasn't been adapted yet? Adapted, has it? Is just a procedure that you're proposing for parades?

Commissioner DiLuccio, so yes, I think it's Appendix K. And it is draft parade parameters that are being shared with community groups that are looking at doing parades downtown. So it is in effect right now. It's not a proposal for parade parameters. And one of the things I want to highlight there, there's in the parade parameters that lists out different streets, including State Street, and what types of things can be allowed or not allowed on the street. The master plan would allow for parades in the future. And the plan itself, the design itself, does not mean that parades could not come back to the street. there are certain parades that may not come back to State Street, like the Fiesta, the Horse Parade, and that is something that has been discussed and is being discussed with a team of staff that Um, including our public safety staff and our parks and recreation staff that manage special events. Um, and so they're looking at just from a safety standpoint, what streets can accommodate certain types of parades, but parades could be accommodated on state street in this design.

So wait, hold on. So the procedure in there right now, is that procedure in place right now? Or yes.

It's an independent commissioner. Yes.

Okay. So I understand. So that could change.

Yes, Commissioner DiLuccio, it could change.

Based on your feedback from different groups. Okay. Because it seems so, it was well, I thought it was well written. I'm not saying I agree with all of it, but it felt like it was so laid out, so extently. Okay. And also, as far as any possible vehicles on State Street, did the council, was it left with the council that it was going to be more flexible in the future? They made this If this plan's adopted, the master plan, and there's no cars on State Street, then they would have to go back to council if they wanted to discuss possibly changing that? Is that the way they were leaning with that flexibility?

Commissioner DiLuccio, I believe so, sort of. I think the reasoning from my understanding with council, the reasoning for pulling out the time frames are to allow for more flexibility. The design itself wouldn't change whether there are vehicles on it or not vehicles on the street. The design would remain the same, primarily because we have to have the 20 feet emergency access no matter what. And so by moving the master plan forward with the design element, it allows for council to make changes and determine, you know, there might be times where we want to test out different hours of operation or seasonally or other things. I think the choice to remove it was to provide flexibility in how it may operate in the future. Okay. decision also would, if we are going into implementation, that would need, we would need that direction once it's been constructed.

A couple more questions. The 1200 block is currently open. Would that be closed in this master plan as two vehicles? You know, the one side for the access to the Granada Theater, the reason why it was probably opened, it'll have the ADA access on the side street instead and maybe close off that street to traffic? Because I find it's pretty abrupt when I'm If I want to go back on State Street, I find it pretty abrupt and dangerous for that one street to be open.

Commissioner DiLuccio, the plan includes design that would go up from the 500, well, it includes the 400 block with some expanded sidewalks, but the operation of the street on the 400 block is a little bit different. So putting that one aside, the 500 block through the 1,200 blocks of State Street or going up to Victoria Street would all have a cohesive design. They would all be the same 30 feet on either sidewalks and 20 feet in the middle. And operationally, bollards would be on each intersection. the street could be opened or could be closed depending on the council direction there. It would also change in that 20 feet of space in the middle would be two 10 foot travel lanes. So different from what you see today with a one lane.

And also as far as just housing, just in and I'll stop and I'll give them. When the master plan is adopted, it doesn't require CEQA, correct? It would only require some CEQA for individual projects?

Commissioner DiLuccio, yes. So we are using a section in CEQA for a planning project or planning program, and then when the project comes through, we would be doing CEQA in each phase.

Right. It wouldn't be like a uniform type of CEQA and, you know, plan like we'd, you know, okay. So the other question is looking at the housing element of the general plan, and thank you so much for Because I tried to go through that and everything, the way it's laid out, the suitable site survey, it's really hard to add up numbers. And thank you for doing that for us. Because I didn't look at it. I had a hard time identifying where housing can go downtown. So that was great that you pointed that out and gave me confidence that indeed we need housing down there and there's a way to do that. And also looking at programs, I know we have the adaptive reuse in place and Imagine I was hearing that maybe the Nordstrom site would be using that possibly to do their housing Commissioner DiLuccio.

Yes, there is a proposal in right now for adaptive reuse at the Nordstrom's former Nordstrom's building Okay.

Thank you Right Commissioner Barnwell And Thank You madam chair

You said that there were 2,200 bicycles plus or minus at some intersection. That was a day count, right? How many automobiles in the prior iteration before COVID would pass a similar point?

Commissioner Barnwell, I believe it was around 9,000, but if you give me a moment, I can find it.

Okay, well, that's close enough. So in other words, when there were cars, there were many, many more cars that went by there than the number of bikes that go now. Correct?

Commissioner DiLuccio, yes. Sorry, Commissioner Barnwell, apologies. That's okay. I like Mr. DiLuccio. Apologies there. Yes. You know, that difference is there, yes.

Okay. Did you do a cost-benefit analysis of any type? where you take those considerations and do they bear on how the retail space enjoys some component of automobile traffic in the front versus no automobile traffic? And I ask the question because of so many people have said to me, I don't really know where that little store is. Is it in the 400 block or the 6th? And they would like to drive a car by, see the boulevard, show it off to people in an automobile. So I guess another way to ask the question is we didn't include in this study, going back to what we had before 2020, that wasn't included, was it?

Commissioner Barnwell, in the transportation technical report, and I think it was Appendix G, the economic analysis, there was some look at what occurred previously. And we also did a look at sales tax from 2014 up until 2024 to determine sort of what the changes were between 2014 and 2019, as well as 2019 up until today. So we have some of that data, the specific question around cost benefit analysis on retail space and how a car versus bike may interact in the space. There was some high level data done in the economics technical report. We found it to be pretty challenging to put a dollar amount with either the vehicle or cyclist because from a vehicle standpoint, there isn't parking right in front of the street. And so if you wanted to go to a store, you are still parking your car typically in the city parking lot or garage behind it and walking in. So it's hard to differentiate that between somebody that's biking down the street, stopping, parking their bike, and going into the store itself.

Okay, and then the next question is tourists. A presentation was just made a moment ago about how she was the new county administrator. Is that woman, who was that lady? New county administrator. New county administrator, the administrator for the county of Santa Barbara, just hired recently. No?

No, that was the bike.

The lady I'm talking about. Isn't she the county administrator, the new county administrator, or no? She is.

She was a lead for a move, which is a county program.

But the statement there was that bicycle people spend more money, et cetera, et cetera. Do we know where our tourists come from? For example, do they come from China or do they come from L.A.? And if they do come from L.A., they come in a car, and how does that auto traffic for so many of our tourists affect How is that affected by not being able to drive down State Street? In other words, these are tourists who don't know State Street, and someone says, oh, you've got to go to X, Y, and Z store. How does that tourist in an automobile find the X, Y, Z store under this new configuration?

I think that one of the things that's changed rapidly in the last years regarding the retail trade, the way people find stores, it really has to do with the internet. Most people could find out where a store is just by typing its name on their phones, and they would know exactly where it is. So once we realized that there was no parking in front of the stores, and that people were already going to garages, I think that, to begin with, that I think was one of the primary reasons to continue with the with a vector of design and development for the street that was in the direction of leaving your car and walking. Now, we're going to need better signage for finding the garage. This garage is going to find better signage for finding the street from the garages. We're going to need better access, two-way access for surrounding streets in order to be able to, once you miss your store, to return to your store rather easily, or to your block rather. I think I think that that the the new configuration is very consistent to the pattern of development exists before 2020 and one one item regarding Mrs. Lucio's aspect a question about day and night It is very important to realize that after a certain point at night there are no there are no pedestrians at all there's almost no bicyclists either and a very few cars and So the matter of cars on the street becomes a matter of safety and the perception of safety that there is some motion, some presence, some activity on the street as opposed to nine blocks of dead street, which also allows people to come in and do things and set up shops and doing things that are also illegal and unreasonable. And so there has to be some way the street can operate deeply into the night, not only for for support of stores and for construction, but for keeping public order and feeling well there, even if you are the rare bicyclist and the rare pedestrian. At the same time, the size of the lanes is so tight, and the whole environment is so pro-pro-pro-pro-pro-pro-pro-pro-pro-pro-pro-pro-pro-pro-pro-pro-pro-pro-pro-pro-pro-pro-pro-pro-pro-pro-pro-pro-pro-pro-pro-pro-pro-pro-pro-pro-pro-pro-pro-pro-pro

speed control for the bicyclists and my own I used to race bicycles when I was a young man so I'm a bicycle kind of guy and when we talk about bicycles often we think of a Schwinn or a 10 speed but that isn't the kind of bicycle that is going down State Street and they go 30 miles an hour often with unlicensed vehicles So, a traffic control system to keep them from going that fast didn't seem to be mentioned in this report. For example, I know that in both Rome and Paris, they have bicycle speed bumps, little ones that slow down a bicycle, but they don't interfere with a mom with her little stroller, for example. And then chicanes and styles that caused the bicyclists to have to slow down and execute. Why aren't those included? Because I believe the speed of the bicycles is the most overriding concern of every single person in the community. And that didn't seem to be discussed. Is there some reason why we didn't go into that?

No, but I think it was because we did not get that deeply into any issue of design of the street. I think this is the kind of thing that we'll definitely have to get into once we begin with schematic design of this project.

Okay.

And the matter of the chicanes is important because the street is so relatively narrow at 80 feet that any time you go away from the orthogonal geometry, you end up throwing off everything in its surroundings, trees, you know, bollards. All kinds of things happen once you start shifting the geometry itself.

Well, some of those just require that you dismount in the same traffic lane. You just dismount and walk it through an S curve.

Yeah.

It doesn't disturb anything. Anyway, I'm glad to thank you for that comment.

Commissioner Barnwell, the other thing just to mention, I think if they're related to the traffic control system and some of the concerns around bikes or e-bikes, in the safety, maintenance, and stewardship areas, um action plan section there is um one call out for um e-bike uh speed enforcement um vehicle and e-bike enforcement so if you you know we could look at modifying um that action item or others to include um include something there okay because that everyone that i ever speak with

from machine gun carrying to tree huggers, it doesn't matter who they are, the thing that bothers them most is those speeding bicycles. Not the bicycles, but the speed of them. Anyway, thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you to Commissioner Wardlow.

Thank you, Chair Baas, and thank you to my fellow commissioners. And most importantly, thank you to Tess and our wonderful team. I'm so excited with all of the progress, and I'm looking forward to jumping into this. So I think I may have kind of understood the flow of this a little bit differently. So I have specific questions for each of your questions, and then I know we'll go to comments. So first, I just want to start with kind of the big picture. And I think you've done a good job at addressing this, but I just want to ask again for the record. Why isn't that a flat and flexible option is really being discussed when there were a number of recommendations? My understanding is that this has to do with the feasibility and ensuring that the stormwater management improvements that we do are as utilized to the most maximum efficiency as possible. But I just want to clarify and double check.

Commissioner Wardlow, yes, I'm happy to elaborate a little bit and then I'm sure Stephanos as well. So we did look at the flat and flexible design quite a bit and prior to the Mull and Palazzoides team coming on, that was what we were really considering. When we went further into the stormwater analysis, that became a realization that the flat and flexible design It could still operate, but it wouldn't provide the same level of stormwater capacity that having the rolled curb could provide. I think what was done well, in my opinion, in the design was sort of this in between, between the flat and flexible and having a full curb. So right now you see six inch curbs on State Street and this would go into a four inch rolled curb. a rolled curb would still allow you to sort of have a slight differentiation in space, but define it enough so that you're not also having to delineate space with other things and sort of clunk up, for lack of a better word, the overall design. And that, I can pull it up again, but I think once we realized that from a safety standpoint, BALLARDS ARE REQUIRED APPROXIMATELY EVERY FIVE FEET ON AN ACTIVE ROADWAY. ONCE WE REMOVED AN ELEMENT OF CURB, THE TEAM FELT LIKE WE WOULD THEN NEED TO START PLACING BALLARDS ALONG THE EDGES OF THE SIDEWALK, AND IT STARTED TO DETRACT FROM THE OVERALL FEELING OF A PLAZA-LIKE SPACE.

THANK YOU. THAT'S VERY HELPFUL. Next is just what is the price difference between accommodating cars and going full pedestrian? I think it's just important that we understand kind of what the investment is that we're doing into the ability to have this flexible and adaptable plan. Just wondering if you have those figures.

Yes, Commissioner Wardlow. I will say there's not really a cost difference between the two and I'll go into it in a little more detail. If we want to have a flexible street where we are allowing certain things, allowing service vehicles in the roadway at certain times and then not allowing service vehicles or emergency access vehicles, the bollard infrastructure is really important for that. If we chose to not allow any private vehicles at all, we would still need to have a system that could allow for garbage collectors or our police cars or fire trucks to get in and out of the space. And that's what bollards do. What they also do is allow for private vehicles if we chose to allow private vehicles in the space. Council could make a decision that does allow them or that doesn't allow them, but the infrastructure itself wouldn't change. I suppose what you potentially could do is shift some of the bollards so that you're blocking off one end and another end, but you'd still have to block off the cross streets in some way. So I don't know that it would get you much of a savings there.

That's really helpful to understand so thank you because that was something that I've thought a lot about and I just wanted to make sure that as we make this big investment that we're doing it for the right reasons that it's not going to have a significant difference based on that. Going kind of to the design start part of it, what is the difference in the design approach based on the fact that we're having cars? Is this a similar answer to the fact that since we have to have service vehicles that the design elements don't change dramatically or does THE FACT THAT PRIVATE VEHICLES WILL BE ALLOWED, DOES THAT CHANGE DESIGN TREMENDOUSLY BECAUSE WE HAVE TO HAVE RED CURBS OR SIGNAGE THAT SAYS DIFFERENT THINGS BECAUSE OF VEHICLE CODE? HOW MUCH OF AN IMPACT IS THE PRIVATE CARS HAVING ON THE DESIGN?

COMMISSIONER WARDLOW, THERE REALLY WOULDN'T BE MUCH CHANGE IN THE DESIGN. SO WE WOULDN'T ENVISION PAINTING ANY OF THE ROLLED CURBS ON STATE STREET ITSELF. there are some areas for like loading or unloading. There's a pocket on each street that would allow like a pullout area. And we felt like that could be useful regardless of if you had vehicles on the street or not. Really thinking if, you know, particularly in the earlier morning hours, there are a lot of larger trucks that are doing their deliveries and service. And so if we go into a two-way configuration on State Street, you know, it would be unfortunate to have one of those trucks just park in the middle of the lane and you wouldn't be able to maneuver. So that would allow for them to pull off to the side and then others to go through. The other reason for those zones would be for transit. So thinking about opportunities for drop off and pickup, if we were to have a bus or shuttle system or trolley back on the street, that would be infrastructure that's already in place and wouldn't need to be, you know, thought about after the fact. So in short, those elements, yes, they provide, there's a vehicle component to it, but it's not strictly for private vehicles. Okay.

This is super helpful. Thank you. I'm realizing I have a lot of questions because we're still just on one topic. So based on the feedback that you're getting when we're talking about housing as a huge priority for this, this entire plan is really contingent on the importance of developing housing downtown. When we think about circulation in relation to housing, what is the feedback you're getting on the importance of having cars or no cars in facilitating the kind of level of development that we're talking about and what seems to be a shared vision around 1,000 to 2,000 units downtown? Is it beneficial, not beneficial?

Commissioner Wardlow, I don't know that we've gotten significant amount either way. I have heard from a couple property owners or interested parties downtown the need to have an opportunity for somebody that's moving into a new space to be able to to get close to residential development and move in, oftentimes that's possible on the cross streets themselves and doesn't necessarily need to happen on State Street proper. There's very few businesses that don't have access either through the back or on a cross street. Okay.

This is all very helpful.

Can I answer this as well? Sure. If you look at the actual set of buildings on these nine blocks on the street itself, there are very few of them that would ever be torn down, be replaced by housing. Because the housing with an ING also means a significant number of units, not one, not two, not three. And all of the housing is going to be beyond in the streets to the east and to the west. And that housing is going to have pure access for the kinds of... in the kinds of cases you suggested, moving in, moving out, special conditions.

Okay, great. This was very helpful to addressing the first question. Moving on to the second part, so going more into the design aspect. Well, this is still sort of part of one, two. I moved them around. When we're looking at the bollards, it seems like we're talking about a lot of bollards. So I just want to understand, is there flexibility in the level of bollards? Why are we looking at so many based on the current configuration of the street? My understanding is that fire signed off on more of a removable magnetic bollard inside of an 18-inch gap with large non-movable planters on either side, that that could be an option. this is things that I've heard and I just want to understand if, if obviously it sounds like bollards are one of the most significant costs of this plan. So just want to understand if there's more flexibility on that.

Commissioner Wardlow. Sure. I can start answering that question. So we're proposing fully retractable bollards, which are the more expensive version. There's a, you, you can also have a manual bollard that has to be, you have a key to, to, take it off or put it back on. There's also bollards that are lift assist where you essentially lift them up and then you can push them down. That is what Ventura is looking at installing this summer is the lift assist version. Retractable in talking with our public safety staff and others, we felt like those were important for the 20 feet of space. You see four bollards in the middle. on the slide here, these four would be retractable and it's because we would have transit service as well on the street. So, you know, if a bus is coming up rather than have the driver get out every block or every stop to move it, they would be able to click a button and they'd come down in three to eight seconds and then roll and then come back up. We felt that was important. The ones on the side, In this graphic here, you're seeing three on the side. Those would be fixed. So those have a different cost associated with them. They would be much less than the four in the middle.

This is really helpful. I wanted to make sure because we definitely want to have the ones where you can click it and it goes down immediately. So that's really important to me. That kind of brings me to my next question of just the trolley. So I assume, and I'll go into this later, but wanting to ensure that we have the opportunity to bring back the trolley that we used to have. not the one with the rail tracks, but the one that we had 10 years ago that would go up and down State Street. And I assume that the Bollards infrastructure that you're talking about then allows that more feasible.

Commissioner Wardlow, yes, we could have a shuttle or trolley-like transit service on State Street. We've had discussions with MTD and with others. And I also have the... you know in my mind what MTD had on the street before with the open air on the side they have had challenges with they don't actually make that vehicle anymore and the parts don't exist anymore for the vehicle so they're out of commission because they can't service those vehicles so you you'll see the waterfront shuttles now that are closed off that are a smaller bus but don't have that same trolley feel because of it and Right now, we have found some challenges in finding a fully electric vehicle that is of smaller size and that has an open-air component. But in working with Moulin Palazzoides, we've started to do some research, and the perspective shows you sort of a different look of what that could be. So there are, I guess, I know this is getting into detail, but there are transit options that exist that are open air. I just want to make it clear that they may not look exactly like what it was before.

Okay. No, that's super helpful. Thank you. I will remove my other trolley questions. So thanks for that clarity. I'm worried that I'm going to take too long. So moving on to deliveries. So I just want to understand when cars are on the road, like how would that work with the delivery schedules? Because I'm concerned of just how this is all going to fit. So if you could just share a little bit about that. I understand that it is more feasible when cars aren't on the road, but if cars are on the road, how does this work?

Should I answer the question?

Sure.

We're talking about probably, I'm not exactly sure what the number is, but it could be six cars an hour, which are three one way and three the other at 3 a.m. or 2 a.m. or 6 a.m. So there would be trucks on the side occupying two-thirds of a lane and the three feet on the right-hand side of the road, and a car coming from behind them would just look around the corner, see if there was no car coming, we'd pass them. And if a car was coming down at 20 miles an hour, it would just go first and the other person would go next. It's called a yield street in transportation engineering. This would be a yield street condition.

So Commissioner Wardlow, the other thing I'll highlight just on this slide here. So these are where you'll see the sort of pullout sections here and here. There's one on each side of each of these blocks. But those would be intended also. If you've got a delivery vehicle or something, the expectation would be that those vehicles would pull off to the side in one of these zones to service a business.

Okay. So in the example that you just talked about, the car count was really low. So is that talking about this scenario is only under the idea that the cars are only allowed at night?

Yes, indeed. Yeah.

Okay. Okay. That's helpful to understand that. So this whole plan is built for the idea that cars will not be allowed during the day because if they were allowed during the day, the amount of cars that would be moving and then the ability to successfully do delivery drop-offs would be impacted? Or does this plan allow for the ability to have cars during the day and successfully do delivery drop-offs?

It's a theoretical question, but there would be probably no deliveries at that time. The deliveries intended to be in the cross streets, including for Uber and Lyft and so on.

So just the way that deliveries are currently like off hours. Okay. That makes sense. Thank you. Um, last question for this aspect, um, bikes. So understanding that during the day we are likely not going to have cars. Um, how do we ensure that, you know, we don't make this into a 20 foot bike lane. Um, and that when we're looking at the pavement permeability, like can we explore things like cobblestone or something that's like really aggressive to ride on so that folks. don't choose to use this as a 20 foot bike lane and that we have a more centralized area for bikes. And then, you know, obviously I think there's a lot in this plan around enforcement. So I won't go into that, but just wanted to make sure that we're trying to minimize the feeling that people seem to be very frustrated with right now that we've created the largest bike lane.

Yes. Commissioner Wardlow on the slide here, it shows the delineation with pavement texture. So There's about five feet where you see the cyclist. That's a concrete pavement. And then the edges, about two and a half feet on either side, would have some kind of stone paving to them. Yes, you could bike across through, but the thought is that that would help to slow down some of the bike speeds that we're seeing. The other element that might help, that we think will help, is having more regular transit service on the street. So regardless, if we had transit that was actually coming every 10 to 15 minutes at each block, that should help with speed overall. And we've seen that with the pilot program that we have on State Street right now.

That's great, thank you. I'm gonna move on to question three now, district differentiations. So first I just wanted to go to some of the design components that we received from local architects and there was a lot of emphasis on potentially making like archways or kind of very distinct ideas to make it clear that you're entering a new district and I just wanted to know if we're still considering that kind of thing or what besides what I'm understanding like the color changes in terms of the different districts on the from a pavement perspective but what is the biggest like differentiator that you're going to feel like number one oh we've arrived on State Street at the very beginning and the very end of State Street depending on where you're entering and then per district.

I think it begins with the streetscape primarily in that in the top three and the bottom three blocks. This treescape is going to be, as it is now, very mixed in terms of planting and so not continuous. In the middle part, it's going to be middle three blocks going to be in a lay of trees in the most formal way. So that's a big distinction. I think that the issue of how specific the design is is a very important one, and it is going to have to be thought further in great depth. I'm generally concerned about over-designing to differentiate. The differentiation should be there in very subtle terms, and how specifically we do it is an interesting question that needs certainly further thought.

Yeah, and that totally makes sense. I just wanted to try to address the question around the differentiations, but I can appreciate that it makes more sense for us to address that later.

And sometimes putting arches across and putting special features everywhere is a sign of weakness and not of strength. If you need to differentiate things this forcefully, maybe there's an issue that you don't exactly need to... That's an issue that... you're overreaching for distinction and differentiation.

I would definitely defer to you on that. It's a subtle design question. At one side of it, like an entry kind of archway, like Fred Sweeney had one that I thought was really great, and I just wonder if we're still considering that, or that can be for a later time to discuss.

Commissioner Warlow, I think that could be something that we look at as we're going into the more detailed design, particularly at the ends. But with the civic and commercial district, the change in the tree canopy overall, I think will be a pretty large gateway in and of itself. And then that area will have differentiated paving One of the things that council requested we look at for the civic and commercial district in particular was some kind of element, you know, whether it's a fountain or something else that sort of creates some emphasis in that space. So that's something that we will study but likely will happen in the detailed design side of things.

Okay, wonderful. And I love all the streetscape and the way in which we're looking at the different types of trees and the different types of lighting. So I think that all makes sense. I will ask, when we're talking about a centralized area, especially in the civic area, I would love to see, and I know that there's a lot of interest in the community around having something where we can host mini concerts or events or plays or something like that. that is built into the infrastructure. So I'm just wondering, and it sounds like this is a question for later, but like, you know, I've been to many cities that have like mini stadium kind of fields that are just like perched up on a sidewalk area that then it can be just a tiny little, you know, audience, or it can be expanded if the streets closed and it can kind of overflow into the area. And I just hope that we, like, if we're thinking about that proactively now, especially in the context of the civic center area, if that could be built into this, given the desire for more live events and concerts, and I don't want to wait too long in the plan to think about that, if it's something that could be more of kind of a focal point, to your point around like if we were doing a fountain or something like that. So that's not something we've considered yet.

This is nonetheless a street and not a square. So there's the plaza, there's public spaces around the old Paseo and the Paseo Nuevo, There are rooms that are immediately off the street. And those, I think, would be the places where one can set up and do those kinds of activities. Otherwise, any time you would have a 30-foot sidewalk or 35-foot sidewalk with trees in the middle of it, and you begin to put permanent pieces in and around it, you would be interrupting the flow up and down. This is really, by and large, a street. I mean, a special kind of street, as you can see in the rendering. I think the dimensions are going to have to, I mean, in order to have major events, those would have to be almost tangent to it to make any sense.

I was thinking of it as like a little event space, like not an event space, but like if you were on the side of the street and there was some type of kind of like elevated seating where people could have lunch and, you know, watch, people watch, and then it could be used to allow for like putting the piano in front of it and then people could just, you know, pop up and play on the piano and some people could gather, something like that, but Obviously, I defer to you guys as the experts. There's not room. I just wanted to ask.

There's going to be further discussion, I hope, on that one as well.

Okay, great. I'm going to try and move faster. I have the same question for kids' play area. There's a lot of talk of that in this plan, and I just don't know if we're actually identifying where this kids' kind of play area. I love the idea of parents being able to enjoy a glass of wine and knowing that their kids are safe and being able to play, but I hear you that this level of design is probably not appropriate for right now.

Commissioner Wardlow, I think what could be helpful in that context, though, is identifying the district that you see some of these elements being worth studying further. So, for example, if we're looking at things like stage elements or play areas, if there's a certain district that you think could be good for us to focus in on for that, I do think that Stefanos is correct that a lot of that will happen in the detailed design, but in the plan itself, we could emphasize, you know, here are some things to study in this particular district to give the design team that move forward. We're not going to necessarily design the kids play area in the plan, but we could identify where they could be located. Okay, great.

Thank you. I'll move on now to the housing aspect. So my main question on this is the way in which the plan is written around stormwater management is me suggested that there's kind of like two different ways and i just want to ensure that if we do this you know it's on when we do this significant and meaningful investment into the stormwater management system that it we ensure that it's done in a way where housing development can tap into it and that this is a vital component of increasing the feasibility of housing downtown that we really ensure we go all in on this so i just want to make sure that that is our approach and that we're not kind of teetering between two approaches so i was a little

yes, Commissioner Ward low that is correct and One of the things that so with the design team and the State Street master plan we are looking at treating First stormwater both for the project overall as well as opportunities for additional housing in the downtown area so that's where you see mr. Crabtree's work in the technical summary and really talking about that, the gravel depth as well as permeable pavers pretty much throughout the project. A study that is going on simultaneously with the sustainability and resilience department is on that in lieu fee option and the projects didn't happen at exactly the same time. The master plan was moving forward and the stormwater in lieu fee study was done after the majority of the draft was completed. So we do anticipate those elements to merge together. I will say with Mr. Crabtree's design, it emphasizes both of those needs. And so I think it accomplishes both, but there is a recognition that housing development, the in lieu program is pretty critical for this master plan overall.

Thank you for clarifying and I'm excited about the direction it sounds that we're going. In terms of housing specifically, so I'm very excited that there's this kind of shared vision around 1,000 to 2,000 units. Clearly there is going to be a lot of significant policy work that needs to be done to create the feasibility and incentivize housing downtown. When we look at kind of the timelines and the implementation, I was concerned that I did not see that as one of the critical like first step aspects that we start working on that policy work in phase one. I think that's something and so I'm just wondering why that wasn't included because when we're talking about that kind of scale of development and obviously, you know, Appendix, I think F did a good job of laying out a number of recommendations specifically to address housing feasibility and make this work along with some, you know, specific ideas like ensuring that we're act how do we move forward with utilizing public parking lots like I want to see that you know prioritize as the first thing so we're sorry I'll step back for overall policy kind of development that we're going to need from a number of different targeted recommendations can why wasn't that included in kind of phase one of the implementation

Commissioner Wardlow, I think it's a great point, and it is something that I'm hoping we can emphasize in the action plan section, in the implementation section of the plan under that matrix. There are a number of different housing items that are coming forward through the city, and I know behind me is Mr. Valdez, who can talk a little bit further about that as well. This project has always... BEEN CHALLENGED WITH IT BEING A PROJECT FOR 80 FEET IN THE RIGHT-OF-WAY VERSUS A PROJECT FOR OVERALL DOWNTOWN AND DEVELOPMENT DOWNTOWN. AND SO IN THE SENSE THAT IT'S NOT A SPECIFIC PLAN, IT'S NOT IDENTIFYING WHERE THE HOUSING UNITS ARE LOCATED, BUT THERE ARE ACTION PLAN ITEMS THAT EMPHASIZE THINGS IN TERMS OF ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT THAT NEED TO And as you mentioned in Appendix F, there's a lot of things that are talked about for opportunities for moving housing policy forward. So I think one of the things from that question that I would take is potentially putting some specific housing policy direction in the action item section of the plan. and I would look to the Planning Commission to get feedback on what specific policies or changes you would want to see in this document.

And do you want that in this hearing?

Commissioner Wardlow, ideally in this hearing, or you could submit it in comment as well to get it into the final draft would be helpful.

So the specific types of policies that we would want the city to focus on for just the downtown area, because there's a lot in there that I don't think that makes sense for us to be considering for the whole city. But if we're targeting this goal around 1,000 to 2,000 units, okay.

Commissioner Wardlow, yes. If I could get that from the planning commission, that would be really helpful.

Wonderful. I want to be respectful of my other commissioners. I can jump back in, but I have a lot of questions. So I think I will stop for now and let others speak and we can go from there. Because I have a lot of questions on the specifics around housing, the kind of different formats that we're talking about of long, like the longer scale buildings that are narrow, the ability to, is it actually feasible and what the city can do to, you know, allow for developers to say retail in the front and then build housing in the back? What are the next steps of actually moving the ball forward on the parking lot issue? I see it's in phase two. I would want it in phase one. Those kind of things. Affordable housing funding. Lots of questions, but I feel like others want to speak. If you want to comment on that and then I'll stop. Sorry.

Mr. Valdez, please.

Chair, members of the commission, Anthony Valdez, Deputy City Administrator. Thank you for the question, Commissioner. I wanted to share a couple of things. One, there is a lot of work that's happening behind the scenes for the city to develop housing policy and policies that support housing downtown. Like the sustainability component of it with the water retention, the work is kind of happening in tandem with the work that's happening here on the State Street Plan. I'll point out that we are planning a joint council commission meeting in August to discuss some of the ways that the city is is planning on removing some of the barriers to constructing housing, particularly downtown, so dense housing. The other thing is the city, our housing and homeless services unit is working on a housing and homelessness plan. And one of the aspects of that plan will include how the city utilizes city parking lots to construct affordable housing. So that's going to be a major component of that plan that comes out.

Great. I'm very excited for that. With that, I will stop for now and let other commissioners. But thank you so much. The answers to my questions were really, really helpful. So thank you for walking through that all with me.

And we do have a section later on that was in the staff report on this slide about are there elements of the draft master plan that the Planning Commission would like to see explored further. So maybe that's a good time to ask additional questions, too. But take your time. You can ask questions. We'll go to Commissioner Wiscombe for now.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you all. The presentation was wonderful and your answers to the questions are great. I apologize because my questions are probably a little bit more in the weeds and they're not in order in any case. But I might start with we're making significant progress, I gather, on the stormwater management and the in lieu fee program for the stormwater management. And my assumption was, and you can tell me if I'm right or wrong, is that if we're going to develop this housing downtown in the significant numbers that we're talking about, or hopefully talking about, we have to have this in place. Is that correct? That's my understanding.

Commissioner Wiscombe, it would certainly be better to have this in place if we're looking at constructing 1,000 to 2,000 new housing units. it is possible to construct some housing without the stormwater in lieu fee program, but that's often the largest factor that hinders housing development downtown.

Right, yes. So, I mean, if we're talking, you know, all these units downtown that are surrounding this spine of State Street, then... My assumption would be that we just can't construct it in those kind of quantities without, and we're talking about the parking lots, we're talking about Paseo Nuevo, Nordstrom's. We can't do that without having some sort of storm water treatment in effect and also the in lieu fee in effect.

Commissioner Wiscombe, I would say generally that that is correct, with the exception if it's an adaptive reuse project, those can often move forward without.

Yes, that's different, yeah, okay, but those are normally smaller projects, so I think, okay, so that answers that question, I think, pretty much, and I'm just going to skip around here, so I'm going to go back to what Commissioner Barnwell said, because one of the biggest items of State Street is the e-bike is the e-bikes and and you do say in the council agenda report on under signature capital products projects on page 16 of the council agenda report you do talk about e-bike in public safety and cleanliness enhancements and Ambassador program expansion, security camera installation, e-bike speed enforcement. And I think for the benefit of the public and what Commissioner Barnwell was after, how do you plan to enforce that? And maybe you don't have the details, but to put that in there, you must have some idea.

Commissioner Wiscombe. we don't have the exact, um, details for how we would do e-bike enforcement. It's a, it's a complicated matter. Um, and it's been something that our public safety staff has been looking at. They've been out doing a number of different enforcement actions on state street specifically, even over the last six months and have seen changes in behavior because of it. Um, You know, one of the challenges we face is what we do as a city for e-bike enforcement and what happens at the state level and where those may intersect or what happens first. So it's something that it was put in the plan because... I do feel like it's a really important element to emphasize and continue to move forward and continue to think creatively about how we can do enforcement absent bringing on more police on State Street. And so there's conversations that are still being had with the police department in particular on that.

Okay, I appreciate that answer. Thank you for that. Okay, and then I wanted to go a little bit to Commissioner Wardlow was talking about this with live events. You have a lot of references in the master plan, Mr. Palazzoides, to Plaza de la Guerra and the revitalization of Plaza de la Guerra. To me, that is an offshoot of this State Street master plan that can handle the kind of live events and part of the revitalization did include a stage and an area for events, both small and larger. So have we done any work on the connection between State Street and the revitalization of Plaza de la Guerra? I don't know where it stands right now. I was on the committee originally, but

It seems to not be going anywhere right now, but Commissioner Wiscombe I can talk to that a little bit So the Plaza de la Guerra project was it you know is further along in the design Then State Street and at Plaza de la Guerra had started Well before the master plan was even a consideration for the city the master plan started catching up to Plaza de la Guerra and and there was a decision that we really think about it as the city center and see where this plan goes so that we can make sure that the projects are not looking like two completely different projects that are plopped right next to each other, but read more as one larger space. So there will be more work to be done on De La Guerra Plaza and connecting it with the State Street Master Plan, A lot of that was put on hold until we get a final plan, hopefully approved for State Street.

Okay, so what you're saying is that the Plaza de la Guerra will follow the State Street Master Plan after that gets finalized, so we can combine the two and have a cohesive design.

Yes, and Stephanos also looked at Plaza de la Guerra a little bit, so I'll pass it off to him as well.

I think there's a bigger question.

Sorry about that. There's a bigger question that ultimately did not reach the master plan stage, because it was reaching beyond our scope of work. But it's a very real question, I think, that needs to be discussed. And that is not only is the plaza an important issue, but also is the unfinished city around the plaza an important issue? And empty buildings, open lots, parking lots in the general territory of the old Paseo. I think those are extremely important candidates for development in revitalizing the core of the city along with the Paseo Nuevo. I mean, it is really an opportunity to strengthen the city that goes far beyond State Street itself.

Great. Okay. Thank you for that. I appreciate that. Okay. And since you're talking about the development around, the master plan states that ground floor offices and buildings contribute to perceived vacancies and diminished street vitality. I think that's what you quoted in the master plan. So are there any potential solutions to these perceptions? about banks and, um, uh, ground floor offices.

Commissioner wisdom, probably the simplest of them, um, would be to require that no frosted glass exists on any buildings downtown. So we do see that with some of the recent office buildings that have occurred on state street. There's three I can think of off the top of my head on the 700 block, 1000 block, and on the 400 block that all have frosted glass. So even if there are 100 people working in there, the public has no idea. that statement in the plan wasn't intended to state that office shouldn't happen on the ground floor on State Street because I do think that there is a value there and there is a shift happening in the office environment now that wasn't there two years ago or three years ago right after COVID. But looking at... making sure that there are entries and exits as buildings change over at some level of frequency and we don't have, I'll use the Bank of America building as an example. Beautiful building, it's half of the 800 block on the 800 block of State Street and so you lose that frontage entirely and it feels like an empty street because there is nothing to interact with in that space. One of the things we are talking about is what to do in the streetscape itself for those types of buildings that likely aren't, that building may never change or not change in the next 30 to 50 years into something different. And some of those larger buildings are also historic resources. So just poses some unique considerations there. So there might be opportunities to do different landscaping where the public is engaged more in that front space or other elements there. So that's something we're, in active conversation with.

Good. Okay. Thank you for that. I appreciate that. Um, okay. And I wanted to go back. Can we put the ballard configuration back up here? Cause I'm, I'm, you know, I'm, I'm a retired landscape architect and I don't, I don't get this. I know what, um, I don't, I understand the retractable ones and the, Yeah, that one, yeah. And the pattern, that makes perfect sense to me. But these fixed bollards on the side, what purpose are they and why is the configuration like it is? I'm totally confused about why we need those fixed ones.

There are a couple of issues that have come up which are important. One is that there is a possibility of moving the movable bollards forward in order to allow for safe crossing behind them for pedestrians moving onto the lateral streets, that's a possibility. But the question for the fixed ball is a much bigger one, which has to do with general security in the streets when the street is closed. And it's not very, very clear at this point, by the degree of discussion that has gone on in trying to arrive at a general solution, whether that kind of security should be a worry or not a worry. So are you saying that... Vehicles that could enter this area.

Okay.

So they're there to protect pedestrians from vehicles veering off by the... By mistake or on purpose. Right. Okay. Now I get it. Okay.

And it might be that there might be more or the place might be more closed. That issue of security we've not addressed. And I think it's something to be addressed in the next stage.

Right, okay, no, I understand that now. You explained that very well. Okay, so let me go on to another question about this. So we're having a rolled curb. I'm familiar with normal curbs and curb and gutter systems. How do you transition at an intersection from your rolled curb to a curb and gutter on a side street?

You do it either by batting them or geometrically. I mean, one turns into the other. It transitions.

Okay.

So it's seamless. It's not...

It is seamless. Okay. That's something I can't visualize. And then I want to talk about ADA access because I'm not quite understanding. Is there not ADA access at these intersections? Where is the ADA access if you want to cross the street?

All the intersections are ADA accessible. They are? Yes. I mean, you can see the ramps there and they would be on the other side as well.

Okay.

And Commissioner Wiscombe, same with the mid-block crossings. I'll pull up the block plan, but there's one or two mid-block crossings on each street.

Yeah, okay. Yeah, because I did read that there are mid-block crossings.

There's two per block.

And then at each intersection, there's going to be an ADA ramp on each side.

You can see it clearly here.

Yeah. Okay. So you'll be able to, can we go back to the, well, this is okay. So when I'm on the street and I'm in a wheelchair and I want to go, can you go back to the baller diagram? I just want to make sure that we have this ADA access totally understood. The other way. There. Okay, so I'm in wheelchair and I'm looking at this diagram. I'm on the right side of the street here on the sidewalk and I'm going to be able to get my in my crossing. I have to go to that ramp at the curve there, right?

Yes.

Okay, so and I'm going to be able to get through those bollards with my wheelchair to do that.

Yes, they're five feet apart.

Okay. Okay, and then take the ramp on the other side.

Yes. And across the street, which you can see.

Perfect. Okay. Because I can't really see that ramp. I can see it's a different color, but I can't. But now I understand it. Okay. Great. Figured that one out. Okay. And the other thing, the other consideration, you were talking about stone pavement and things like that. A lot of those materials, I know when we were talking about what pavement to use in De La Guerra Plaza, a lot of those materials aren't accessible. So I just want to make sure you're talking about using something that may be a little rough for bicycles or something like that, that you know, can be accessible for people with, that have accessibility issues, so. I appreciated, Mr. Palazzoides, I appreciated your comments on the access schedule from 10 p.m. to 10 a.m. and the fact that that is actually A safety could be a safety thing to open it up to vehicles at 10 p.m. because there's very few bikes or pedestrians on the street at that time.

Or whenever the time is because it's now up for discussion, the exact time.

Right. Right. That's now open.

Okay. Commissioner Wiscombe, if I could just add one piece here that was not discussed much at the council meeting as well around access. There was some conversation with the public safety staff on in the future if there are hours of operation looking at blocks that have more ABC licenses on them and restricting hours of operation and particularly Thursday through Saturday night until after bars are closed. So you might have just in insert I want to mention that as just certain scenarios may come up where that movement is different because of what's occurring on the street. So if there are a lot of people exiting a bar on the 500 block, our public safety staff wants to be mindful that that would not be the best time to introduce vehicles and pedestrians in the space together.

Did the council have the explanation, though, of why the kind of 10 p.m. I don't want to go to 10 a.m. because we can talk about that later, but 10 p.m. to 10 a.m., why that was a possible rationale for doing that was because the streets are fairly empty. Did they hear that? Commissioner Wiscombe, yes, they did. Okay, okay, fine. That's great. And I just, you know, I'm on State Street at, I'm an early morning exerciser. I'm on State Street at 5 to 5.30 a.m., you know, at least once a week. It's really busy with vehicles. There are power washers. There's Marburg. There's city staff changing flags. There are deliveries. I want to be mindful that I think 10 a.m. is probably a little too late. I'm not on State Street usually at 10 a.m. I think there's a lot going on that we really need it open to vehicles at Those kind of times when people are out cleaning the streets and doing all that.

Commissioner Wiscombe understood. We didn't talk in too much depth today about the hours, but I will say one of the reasons we landed on 10 to 10 was around just the pedestrian and bike movement and when those are highest. And also one of the sub consultants or couple had mentioned just the ease for the public to remember the hours and when they're used. So by whether it's 10 to 10 or eight to eight or nine to nine, it's easier to remember than 12 to seven one day and six to 10 the other. So that was a consideration initially when that came about.

Yeah, that makes perfect sense. And I will add, there are a lot of commuter bikes on State Street at, you know, 5 to 6 a.m., there's a lot of people commuting. Not a lot, but there's, you know, I don't, a day doesn't go by when I don't see probably 10 bikes going up and down the street. And they're clearly commuting. So, okay. And... So we can add, we could add to our comments when we're talking about... other elements of the plan, we could add things like no frosted glass and things like that. That would be, yeah. Those are solving bigger issues, I think. Okay. I think that's it. I'm done. Thank you so much.

We'll shift to Commissioner Bauke.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I chose to go last this time purpose because I wanted my fellow commissioners to be able to ask questions because I tend to show sometimes especially on items like this and So that was intentional so and they asked many of the same questions, so So well first off I would like to thanks Tess because she has been been the heart and soul of this for many years at this point. I made this comment to the council, and I'll make it now, is it's tests that had a and the city manager had the huevos to fire the prior consult which was not giving us the product that we needed and i was very very happy and i told the council such that wouldn't she propose mole and polo zoides to pick up this with that that was the right choice and I completely agree with the product we've got today that definitely was the right choice. But I do have comments. I do have questions. I'm a little, you know, I've known Stefano since the mid-80s and worked, I've been his client a couple times over the years doing large scale master plans for neighborhood scale stuff. But it's one thing is he surely understands what we're trying to get to. So, and there's a lot of balancing and as the member of the State Street Advisory Committee representative to, from the Planning Commission, There's a whole lot of discussion over a long period of time, and trying to find that balance here is really, really tough. And I think where I'm having concerns is where there's some balance and things that were discussed a lot that sort of either decisions were made, eh, let's not go that way, and they need to sort of see and understand how we got to some of these decisions, so bear with some of the questions. The first one is the 1300 block. I look at the plan, I look at, it talks about, and since the beginning it's the 400 to the 1300 block, but when I start looking at the plan, the 1300 block sort of shows up and doesn't show up and it sort of, it's in this weird vortex and I'm looking at, plan page 107 and 108. It doesn't show up there. It talks about nine blocks when the 1300 block is the tenth block. I can't find a design for the 1300 block. So that's something that seems to be missing in my book. It's the other entry. It may not be the, it's the locals entry probably versus the other entry, which I would say would be more the tourist entry, but it seems to be lost in translation. So I just want to put that out there. I understand for format reasons how nine blocks works real well on the page, but at least it should be somewhere.

Commissioner Bauke, I think that's a point very well taken. There are a lot of differences with the 1300 block, and there was a reason why the team didn't study it in this iteration initially, partly because of Arlington Street that comes out and some of the interests from our public safety team around that particular block. However, We have had a number of discussions about extending the sidewalk there. The actual movement of vehicles is likely not going to change on that block. It will likely be similar to the 400 block where you have bikes on either side and vehicle traffic moving because of some of the circulation needs with the parking lot there as well as Arlington Street. We noticed that as well. One of the things that when we are looking at an ATP grant that would make us more competitive is ensuring that the project is connecting with bike facilities both below the 400 block and above at the Solar Street bikeway. I appreciate that, and I think that is something that we are looking to address before we get to the final.

I think it would be important that while we have Mullen Polozoides under contract to get what that design will be. The same thing, yeah, Seth.

I would also like to add that without causing trouble here, that the 300 block is exactly the same predicament, and that's outside the scope of our work. But 300 block is on the freeway now. It used to be a highway. It's currently a freeway. And it's in Gutierrez, which is one way. But the day Gutierrez comes to way, that's going to be a spectacularly important site for parking because one can walk to the beach and up the street from that one point. And if you look at the parking diagram, which is the next page to the diagram of the districts, the parking around the first two, three, the three, four, five, three, four, and 500 blocks is very weak. There's almost no parking there. Much richer and deeper the parking is in the two other districts. So that's a question.

And thank you for the segue, because one of the next conversation points I had is, The discussion, and you were very clear in your recommendation, and there was discussion at the State Street Advisory Committee about the two-way, one-way issue. And it was real clear the direction and conversation was, well, the 400 block has to be this way because we have these one-way streets. And I agree with that from the public safety point of view. That would be the answer. But the question is, we don't have a design And now's the time to get a design of what the 400 block would be when we go to a two-way situation. And there's a lot of policy reasons to go to two-way traffic for safety reasons for pedestrians and also just to make it a better place to navigate. And doing that, we need a design. I know that if we don't do it now... we won't see one. Because that's a whole effort of momentum to get the council to go do something like that later. So we really do need a design for the 400 block. And the 400 block honestly from a development standpoint is the low hanging fruit for the community for more housing. I mean there's not a whole lot of historic buildings in the 400 block and it is the low hanging fruit. So just want to make sure that we really focus on those two. Commissioner Wiscombe and Commissioner Wardlow addressed housing. I wanted to bring that one. That was one of my comments. And I have a question for Tess. Why 1 to 2000? Have we actually done, and this is going back to my my professional practice of master development is have we looked at what the threshold are on infrastructure and other things? Maybe it's 4,000 units. Has anybody done the analysis as to where the tipping point is? Because downtown is where If we've got to do 8,000 units in this community, downtown is the best place for it. And the question is, what is that capacity and where's those tipping points on a cost-benefit analysis? And where would those be? Have we done that analysis or are we just talking policy based on we have sites, but don't we need to do more? And can we get Stephanos to do that or some future contract? But it's something that definitely, I think, before we just say 2,000 units, if we have the capacity, we should do the analysis.

Commissioner Bakke, yes. So the analysis that was done... is actually related to the COSMOT study. So we looked at the metrics from ULI, from the Urban Land Institute, EPA Smart Growth, and US Green Building Council that had suggested, that suggest two to three jobs per housing unit. In the COSMOT study, it identified 6,480 jobs in the State Street study area, which suggests that 2,160 to 3,240 residences are needed. So that number is higher than the 1,000 to 2,000. Beyond that, as well as the housing element that identifies the pending and potential projects at about 1,300 in the downtown area, we haven't done that further analysis, but we felt like that was a pretty reasonable number given the space. We're really talking the three blocks, Chapala to Anacapa, when you go out for the full CBD, that number certainly should increase beyond the 1,000 to 2,000. But between Chapala and Anacapa, at this one mile, we felt like 1,000 to 2,000 was appropriate. I think getting the commission's thoughts on that and whether that makes sense or whether you would like to see further analysis would be helpful.

Okay, thank you. Yeah, it just seems like the investment's going to be so significant, especially on all the utility frameworks that we have on the blocks. And in the development world, there's sizings of pipes, and it's like, okay, do I go to the next increment? Is there a justification for the next increment? And we really need to know what those increments are based on sort of a, this is what our goal statement is. and then figure out whether that's what we want to do as a community. But that exercise needs to happen, is my point. Now let's go to my next subject matter, which was touched on by some, but seems to... It was really clear in the conversations at the advisory committee that there was definitely a desire to have this format that's running block to block to go through the intersections and have the intersections raise specifically for the purpose of slowing cross street traffic down such that they know they're entering a pedestrian space and I was wondering I understand there's complications with the stormwater drainage, but that situation out there is already complicated. It's sort of a cobble if you go out there and look. It's not like you would normally want to see it anyway, so we're going to have to redo it. So if we're going to redo it, I don't think the stormwater is... the driver, it's sort of what you have to do to accomplish the objective of the project. And so the question is, I really think there should be more discussion about the race intersections. Would you keep the whole thing a lot more simple?

No, I think it's a very good suggestion. I think we should do that. The interesting thing about it is that there are all kinds of intersections. but probably one solution which might have to be modified, stretched, accommodated. It's not a huge study. It's just a consideration that we can look into and see whether it's feasible or not. And at what cost? I don't mean financial cost, but technical cost.

Right, right. And so that gets into sort of what we have right now in the design is with the roll curb and I went in and I talked to Paul. I've known Paul for years and I talked to Paul and I got into looking at some of the design of the analysis and the one thing that seems to be a little bit off and I'm not the engineer but there's probably engineers that would be opining on this is they were looking at a lot of flow rates based upon current conditions and the numbers are generated based on non-permeable surface areas and whether the analysis has actually been done with the previous pavers that you're talking about and using trench drain systems like you have in the plan that you could actually not have the curb from a stormwater management point of view But then we get into this conversation, this is back to the balancing thing, is whether this is going to be an active roadway or not. And that was a question, as I noticed, like one of your examples, the one that's in West Palm Beach. It has a curb, but it is not a 4-inch roll curb. It is a very minimal curb situation. How are they able to accomplish that and not have tons of bollards like you showed in that one graphic of we need that because? Where's that coming from? Because I don't see it in lots of other communities that have streets that operate time to time. They're not always active streets and one of the things the advisory committee was always talking about is this is sort of pedestrian first and I think that's on your slides even. Pedestrian first and cars as a possibility and let the council do with the politics of that and the reality of that on a case-by-case basis. And that's why I think they yanked it out of the plan is so they want to have that on and off throttle. So the question is, can we look at more flat land? designs here uh before we just toss toss it into the overall curb situation and there was one other question i'll just there's one other thing related to that is it city policy to allow private property to drain use the street as a drainage system Because one of the things that's in the rural curb is all these outlets into the street to use it to drain private properties instead of putting it in pipes. And I notice that's part of what's driving some of our volumes on State Street is for taking stuff off people's roofs and putting it in the streets.

From what we understand, this is an established condition, the drainage in the streets. There's no other way for these drains to go. Where would they go otherwise?

Well, I mean, if you're going to go redo a block, why wouldn't you put the drain system into a pipe, into pipes, and not feed them into the street like you have with the J drains?

Commissioner Bauke, that's something that we are looking at and potentially would be connecting the pipe from Korea Street to COTA as well as doing the gravel pit that Mr. Crabtree had recommended. So we're looking at potentially both.

That leads me to the other consultant that sort of got contracted at the same time, but they're not quite in it, is... I would want to see the most aggressive design we can do on stormwater on a block-by-block basis. Because you're not going to go rip this stuff up ever again to do that. So to the extent it's technically feasible, the depths of the percolation area may be much more than three feet. And we should consider more than three feet. I don't that the other consultants should be able to tell us where that Threshold of how far we can go because we have water table issues and other stuff, but we need to maximize What we can do from stormwater on those blocks So I just want to make sure that's part of this because we're not going to be able to do this again And that's part of this This is a very significant economic investment of like $60 million. Well, a lot of that's for all this stuff that benefits the city as a whole, but also benefits all the private property owners and their ability to redevelop over time.

Commissioner Bauke, yes, point well taken. And that we will be making sure that that is a priority throughout the plan.

And I think that is it.

thank you all right I promise I just have a couple of questions and just want to appreciate the responsiveness the council meeting was three weeks ago and they asked a lot of questions and gave a lot of direction and you I think did all of that work in the past three weeks so thank you that helped prepare me for understanding the shift from the flat to the rolled curb and especially appreciate the suitable sites maps that was really helpful for me to see I think that's why we came up with the number of housing units, because that work has been done. A couple of things that I didn't see in the past three weeks. There was a question from Council Member Santa Maria about translating this into Spanish so that there's time for people to respond by the June 30th deadline. Do we have an update on that?

Yes, Commissioner Boss, we do. It's very challenging, I will say, to translate a 300 pages. But it's also very important. And we recognize that. We were able to use the software and both the master plan as well as all appendices have been translated into Spanish. There will be a caveat at the top of them that it was done with a software and not human technology. So there may be some areas that have some level of error in them. But I think given the time frame, that is, I think, a better approach than waiting longer. So I anticipate next week we will have those up on our website, and there will be a full month to review before the end of public comment.

And I assume that when it gets to the final, then it will be a human maybe aided with some software translating?

Yes, Commissioner Boss, that is the plan.

Great, thank you. And this question may be more to the other when we get to the comments or answering your questions, but can you speak to what zoning or land use changes would be required to bring all of the housing to different blocks, if any? And again, this may be exploring further in the next couple months.

Commissioner Boss, yes. Right now, you can do housing on any of these parcels. it gets at the question of density and where we wanna see density downtown and how we balance that with our maximum thresholds currently. So I think that is one. I think also just being able to look at how to divide up certain parcels that traditionally aren't easily divided. There are some locations that have back of house opportunity. I'm thinking right now if you from Canon Perdido to Carrillo Street, so like we're behind where the Music Academy of the West building now is located on that side of the street. There's a whole a whole Paseo in the back there and there could be opportunities for all of the those long businesses on State Street proper to actually be two separate businesses or residential in the back and a business in the front. There are things there that we could be looking at more in depth. That work hasn't been done up to this point as part of the plan.

Okay, that's helpful. I appreciate calling out the examples like the old Sur La Table, which is more that mixed use, the retail in the front downstairs and behind housing, and there's kind of a funky walkway behind it. Um, and upstairs. So I appreciate looking into that. Uh, another question that, um, council member Harmon, um, brought up during the council hearing was how do we improve state street now? Um, so it's great. We have these phases and we have hopes and dreams for funding. Um, but how do we improve it now? And I wanted to call out that in the plan, or I think it may have been in the council report, um, looking at detailed design and engineering phases to begin in early 2027. and recognizing the general fund shortfalls that really emphasize alternative funding. So thinking about like the downtown DSBIA, I know that they're doing things now and others are as well, but can you speak to like what could be done this November to start on these improvements?

Sure, Commissioner Boss. One of the, so I will start by saying we are coming to council June 30th with a conversation around this very question, sort of the interim options related to State Street. One of the things I think that's important to note would be trying to move in the direction of the plan. So whatever is done in the short term, the goal and Stefanos and I have talked about this, would be to start to show what the design of the plan looks like on the street and not go to a different design or a different operation of the street than what we intend to build. I think it's also important to really be thinking about how much of, while there's recognition that we want changes to happen on the street now, how much to be spending on the street in a temporary configuration versus investing that into a faster process. opportunity to get to construction for the permanent and so those are balances that we're going to be asking council to weigh and to determine whether it's paint on the street to start to delineate space or if it's something more than that that they're wanting to see. There will be a number of different items that we're going to come to council with so I don't want to get too far in front of that but those are some of the considerations we're thinking about. Great, thank you.

And then the slide, I think it was the slide 9 or 10, the one that we've been looking at with the bollards. The way that they're arranged, it invites me as a driver on the cross street to pull right in, like right on to State Street to drop somebody off or pick somebody up. Is that intentional or is that, I would think we'd want to avoid that.

It was not intentional, so we're working on it.

Okay, okay, perfect. Just wanted to, yeah, okay, thank you. And I think those are all my questions for now. Are there any other questions before we take a break?

Okay. I mean, I have more questions, but I feel like, yeah, let's take a break, and I think I can kind of interweave them, and I can also just talk with you later. Yeah. All right, thank you so much.

Let's take, is 15 minutes good? Okay, so at 405.

Thank you.

I can feel you slipping away And now my love for you is so strong, girl I can feel you slipping away

We are back and understanding, do we have additional questions before we go to comments?

No, I really appreciate it. I'll weave my kind of questions a little bit into the comments if I have to.

And staff is wonderful as usual, having the direction requested already on the slide. So what we'll do is we'll go question by question and I'll just, we'll go down the row and ask for your response and concise comments. So starting out with the vision and guiding principles, does the Planning Commission endorse the flexible pedestrian first straight street Paseo vision as the framework for the plan? Should we go down the road just starting with Commissioner Wiscombe or?

Okay.

My answer is yes, I support the framework.

Question before I answer that. Do we get to make comments on other things that may not be?

I think that would fall under any other areas.

Okay, gotcha. Okay. I'm in favor of the endorsing flexible pedestrian first vision as a framework.

I too am in support of the flexible pedestrian first framework.

Ditto.

I support the pedestrian first framework, but I want to make it clear the whole concept is it's the pedestrian who should be the most comfortable person out there. And that's the concept of pedestrian first, I believe, is comfort to the pedestrian. They feel safe.

I, too, am supportive of the pedestrian-first concept, and I appreciate the work that you all have done to address adaptability for planning for the future, but I am in support. Thank you.

We will go back to Commissioner Wardlow for the second question, which is on design approach. Does the Planning Commission support the flexible design approach with 30-foot sidewalks and 20-foot travel lane emergency access area?

Yes. I greatly appreciate the answers to my questions. I am in support of it. I do want to note that I'd also like a staff to consider the raised intersections to create more of a sense of arrival. I know we didn't get into that. That was one of my other questions, but I'll just say that I'd like that to be explored more. But otherwise, I'm very much in support of the approach and everything you've laid out.

And I will support the flexible design with the caveat of further discussion about the roll curve.

Also, I like the way it's actually divided out almost equally between the dining, pedestrian, and the bikes. So I do support it in concept. We'll see how it works in execution.

I'll also support it, but I do want to point out the need for some curbing. I know we've gone back and forth on that, but particularly for stormwater management, as previously stated, and for transit access. My understanding is that to create a level ADA compliant boarding surface for transit, whether it's traditional transit vehicle or a cart with a ramp, you do need some sort of curb. So I want to make sure that's clear.

I do support this. I would like to, I'm going to have to throw a comment in here. You mentioned early on something that caused me to put my loaded shotgun away and take my sword and just set it on a shelf. And what you said was that these are design discussions and not a final plan. And I don't think you guys are saying that enough. I really think you need, because most of the people that I know think we're going to have to swallow this like a 20-pound weight or something. And we're so still in the design process. And I want to thank you for saying that. And please say that more so that it gets out into the wide world because there's an awful lot of people that think, oh, it's in front of the planning commission. Somebody is going to get a permit, you know, in the next two months because that's the normal process. Having said that, and thank you very much for having said it, but I am in favor of this one. I want to double down on the idea that there is a real safety for the pedestrians. It is pedestrian friendly. One of my first worries was, are we talking about a pedestrian promenade? Are we talking about a vehicle corridor? And that's really where the two things slashed together. I lean on the pedestrian promenade part, at least in terms of safety, insofar as this particular discussion right here. But we've got a lot more conversation, so let's go.

I do support the flexible design approach with the 30-foot sidewalks and the 20-foot travel lane emergency access area. I agree with my fellow commissioners who made comments about safety for pedestrians is important. a priority, and I also want to just say when vehicle hours are established by council, whatever they turn out to be for maintenance and for garbage collection and for deliveries, et cetera, that the They should be adaptable to change and flexibility if the proposed hours are not achieving the desired results. And I think that the city in the master plan talked about implementing a managed vehicular appointment system outside of the regular window online immediately so you could basically tell if the hours would need adjustment. Are you following that, Ms. Harris? Yeah, I thought you were. Okay. So that's my comment on that. Thank you.

All right, next question is district differentiation. Does the Planning Commission support the Civic and Commercial District? 700 to 900 blocks is the first priority investment zone with differentiated paving and a signature plaza design suitable for year-round markets, festivals, and civic events. We'll go back to Commissioner Wiscombe.

You need to change it up a little bit. Yes. Yes, I do. This is the zone adjacent to the most potential housing. So I think it's also critical. But I also just want to mention the 400 block because that was the one that is the economically, what's the word, Ms. Harris, I can't remember. Underprivileged. Underprivileged, yeah. The underprivileged child, yes.

It does have the most vacancies as well. The 400 block is... over double any other block.

Yeah, and the reason I want to mention it is because it really is part of the link to between the State Street and the waterfront. And so I would like to also see a concentration on that 400 block in addition to the Civic and Commercial District. Thank you.

I do support this, and it's giving me a chance to say one or two other things about this. It's asking for almost a timing question here, right? But I think it would be important. Any construction, anybody who's involved in construction, has the construction scheduling of when you do what. And frequently in the jobs that I've been on, they actually have dates on them. So, and I would realize that all these days would be pushed. I mean, who knows what they are. But right now, when I look at your action item matrix and says intermediate, short, medium, I think it would be nice, even if it's kind of Pollyanna-ish, to put down the first six months and then the next nine months, or whatever that is, so that the general public can get an idea about what is the time scale of this kind of thing. Also, and you know this, I just discussed it with you, but there are some things that we could do now. I see a big zoning issue because if we are going to treat these sections of State Street differently, then are we imagining that the use in any given parcel in these three areas is now being limited? Will the central government district not be able to have as many restaurants and they have to be down at the entertainment district? In other words, how does the land use get affected by our having divvied this up into three very distinct land use sections? Doesn't have to be answered now, but it seems like something we could do it on parallel track because that's a very important thing. There will be a loss of land use potential if we are limiting it by virtue of the way we've talked about it. Also, my background in construction and on the Planning Commission and City Council, we use the term gateway frequently when we talk about people coming to Santa Barbara. We have tried, sometimes successful and sometimes unsuccessful, to create The first image, okay? What is the first image? And that 400 block of State Street is completely one of those things because we have studied the pedestrian traffic and the vehicular traffic from the funk zone, and many of those people don't even bother to go underneath the freeway because it's, like, intimidating and noisy and they don't know what. But when they do come up on the other side, I mean, what do you got there, right? And the city could do a lot just in street treatments and sidewalks and plantings. We can't get the property owners to do that. So I would suggest what Ms. Miscom was saying, that there's a gateway concept that we should plug in to this. And I agree with the, you know, we don't want big arches and we don't want to make all that kind of statement, like we're some town in Kansas that won the state football championship. But nevertheless, I think a gateway would be nice.

Thank you. I also agree with prioritizing the civic and commercial district as long as it doesn't preclude events from happening on other blocks. I appreciate Commissioner Wiscombe's comments about it's closest to the most housing suitable sites. I also wanted to recognize I think a couple of the council members suggested naming it something other than civic and commercial district. And I think it was Mayor Pro Tem Stedden suggested having Chumash name it. And I know, I'm gonna go on a tangent here. I know that we have a land acknowledgement in the document and I appreciate that. But I think we also wanna somehow recognize the kind of Cognitive dissonance between our beloved Spanish colonial style that is built on unseated stolen land So I think having the Chumash name that district and being more involved I think would be helpful And I totally agree with you on that Looking exploring a Chumash name.

I I'm an agreement starting here for a civic and commercial I wrote the same words down. Maybe it's not a gateway. I'm familiar with a gateway. It's definitely like Devin was alluding to, an entry archway, come up with that somehow. And I know that one of the council members, it was Sneddon, she came up with a fountain, putting a fountain there or something. Some kind of, and I was actually thinking, which I feel like has become like, it's like taking a back seat To me, the historic core is the Plaza de la Guerra. And, man, there's so much that can be done with that. We got so far with that. And if we start developing a civic and commercial district, we need to connect that. I really feel strongly about that.

As to this question, I have a little different take, and this goes back to sort of my experience in the master development world. I would think this should be driven by the design of the infrastructure. So whatever, usually you build it from the bottom up, whatever that is for those systems, just like you would do a hillside developer or something. You basically, whatever's the most cost-effective thing, because we're gonna talk a whole block at a time. You gotta do whatever that first thing is, and I'm not saying I know what the first thing is for each of these systems. There's many systems out there, but we need to find out what the best first thing is and work backwards from that, just for economic sake. But if it is a civic area, I mean, from a conceptual standpoint, that makes sense, but

Think we don't want to force this you you want you want to have this be as cost-effective as possible Commissioner bauke I just if it's okay that I respond to that for just a moment I fully agree and I know that the team fully agrees with that comment and the reason I'm jumping in is There are likely going to be some Considerations storm waters one example, but where we may not be able to start it may not make sense Financial sense to start in the center. We may need to start at the top or at the bottom depending on stormwater flow but the intent of the question is let's say we only there's a decision that we're only going to do one of three or were Or we have a set number of dollars and want to want to emphasize where those dollars could best be located I'm trying to get at you know, we might do the infrastructure, but then when it comes to landscaping or other elements, if those things, if we don't have the ability to do all of it, that this would be that primary spot to do it. So I apologize for jumping in. I just wanted to make clear for the commission that there is that thought behind it as well.

Yeah, and that was why I had a caveat is if there is some other, reason and from a marketing such that makes sense or this is where we want to put our dollars so notwithstanding the other comment about an infrastructure but I also do have to agree with Commissioner Barnwell and Commissioner Wiscombe that the 400 block is the link It's sort of been the stepchild through this whole process, and we know why it's the stepchild, but I think we really need to hit that one out of the park, and it may not be the first thing to get built, but we definitely, because you'd have to change the configuration to two-way streets first and have people understand that and then work from there. But I think the 400 block needs to be given a good focus. And we really need to, as my comment said before, we really need to design for the 400 block in that scenario.

Thank you. So I kind of echo some of my commissioner's comments on this. I do want to prioritize and agree that the 700 and 900 block should be the first priority, especially through the lens of addressing stormwater management. And I believe that in the report really kind of explains that that should be kind of the focal point to start with. So there's a long-term investment, and I want to get that going. But to the point that my fellow commissioners are making about the 400 block, when we're thinking through how do we make State Street better today, I think that that area should really be the focal point. So those are my comments on that. I did think, I thought that the original question kind of wanted us to talk about design elements as well. If not, I will not talk about that. But if you do want design kind of feedback, I have different ideas around the pavement schemes. I have concerns over the color schemes that we're using for the Civic Center area specifically. I'm hoping that we could do something more bold. When I look at all the images that have been presented, I really like what the Entertainment District looks like, and I like what the Arts District looks like, but I'm not super moved by how the Civic Center is coming together, so I believe that we're going to do a lot more around kind of creating more of a community feel there. Maybe we look at different colors. I also looked at a lot of the images provided in the appendix. I really like the sandstone option that's on page 209. I thought that was really beautiful, so just throwing it out there. And then I have a whole list of the trees that I liked and different lighting structures that I thought were really great. I think that those, and I think you guys made a good point earlier during questions, that those will be some of the big differentiating points of how we feel that the districts are different. So if you want feedback on the trees and the lights, I can provide that. But if this is meant to be more high level, I can keep it to my next points are again, I mentioned earlier, I would like to see concerts and like some type of infrastructure to allow for, and it doesn't have to be big. Like I'm thinking small where, you know, people can kind of people watch and do that type of thing as well as somewhere that's like a safe space for kids. I think that's really important and when you ask where I would say the safe space for kids could be prioritized in the arts district area. If we can start to think through that and then when I think about some type of stadium-esque seating arrangement, I would think of that more in the civic district. So those are just my thoughts on that. And then I did just want to touch on public restrooms. I think that was in this concept. I think that's really important, and I don't want that to be left to, like, a super afterthought. So just throwing that out there. And then I agree with Commissioner Voss, and I think Council Member Sunedin mentioned this, about what are the names we're using for these districts. I think she mentioned Corazon, and I like that. So just thinking through that I don't know that we need to say civic that just doesn't sound exciting and if we want this to be kind of the heart and focal point that's not as Gravitating for people so those are my those are my comments again if we do go into design specifics we can I'm happy to elaborate but I'll keep it to that for for this Oh, and one last thing is just really focusing on when we're talking about the Civic Center, as we're calling it today, how this all interacts with De La Guerra Plaza. Like, it's really important. Like, I don't want it to feel like disconnected things. And I do see the value that you guys mentioned earlier around what we could do, you know, kind of the concert venue style in the De La Guerra Plaza. And I understand that. I think I was thinking of it as just somewhere also for people to sit and enjoy and like kind of create community without having to go into a specific restaurant, but somewhere that people can kind of hang out and just watch people going by. That's what I was thinking about from the venue-esque perspective. But all of that needs to be done in conjunction with Daily Gara Plaza because I don't want that to feel disconnected. Those are my comments on this item. Okay.

Would you like additional detail or comments now? on the district differentiation in terms of design like paving trees?

Chair, boss, commissioners, if the comments around design are related to sort of location of where things are or use of the space, I think if it's getting into the detailing around the types of trees or the types of pavement, it's helpful, but maybe I would request that that come after this commission meeting.

Okay.

Thank you.

Okay, then this time we'll move on to the next question, housing and redevelopment. Does the Planning Commission support incorporating 1,000 to 2,000 new housing units in the master plan area toward the city's 8,001 unit re-allocation, including redevelopment of city-owned surface parking lots with housing above retained parking? I'm going to mix it up and go to Commissioner Barnwell this time.

All right, I appreciate that. This is a This is a mother's milk to me, and I will use the word mother's milk in another meaning. I don't see enough discussion about kids. And if we're going to have housing, we've got to do something about that. And I don't know what that is exactly, except a broad discussion to begin to have it. And the number of 1,000 to 2,000 new housing units is a number I, again, I'm not sure where that number comes from. We're talking about maybe it applies to the city's open flat asphalt parking areas, but we have asked from the Planning Commission many times to do a full inventory of city-owned property. For example, across Serpala Street from the Canary Hotel where there's a gas station on the corner, and then the fire department property comes out onto Chapala Street. It's way underutilized. For years, it was a restaurant rented by the city for commercial use. Those kinds of parcels, they can be reused without hurting the fire department, should be in this larger discussion of this area. Also, it's super important, if you're going to have housing, that we go to the two-way streets surrounding this block because that's the only way the traffic patterns are going to work Um, we already have the in lieu fee, which didn't quite meet the planning commission's hopes and dreams when it finally got approved. But that's another important component. And, you know, the adaptive reuse of existing buildings, et cetera. But I'm not sure exactly how we do it. I don't know whether we give them a bouquet of roses or something, but how do we get these people downtown to build these kinds of things? Now, the area that we're discussing, which has this boundary line around it, isn't all of downtown. You had a much bigger map. But, I mean, if you actually lived on the east side of Anacapa, you wouldn't even be considered in what we're now calling downtown. So this discussion of housing is really a little bit bigger. And how this street incorporates the bigger discussion of housing has to do with those issues like the livability. And not only children, but there's no seating. And it's unfortunate that the city benches and park benches were pulled out for the sole reason that homeless people slept on them. to the detriment of every other citizen who wanted to sit or had children or some other thing. So that type of thinking needs to go into what we're going to do down there. It isn't just tourists going up and down the boulevard or bicycles going up and down the boulevard. If we're talking about housing, we're talking about a place where people live. And that needs to be bold letters in what we talk about here. But I am totally in support of the concept. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you. I'll go next and I'll also ask folks if there are specific policies that would be helpful to further the housing goals that we can include them in this one or also in the to further study. So, yes, I support incorporating the housing element related goals in the State Street Master Plan. The suitable sites slides, well, it included the 1,349 pending and potential residential units based on the analysis of available or underutilized sites. You pointed out it doesn't include Paseo Nuevo and it doesn't include city parking lots, but I think it also doesn't include other city parcels. And I'll put my day job hat on here and we are about to break ground on our fourth county owned parcel for interim or permanent supportive housing. couple of those were parking lots, but the others were just underutilized parts of larger parcels. So I'd like to see beyond the city parking lots. What are other city parcels that are underutilized? And Commissioner Barnwell just mentioned one. I think it would be helpful to also see what can be streamlined downtown, but in particular to look at more density downtown. Especially, I think Ms. Harris, you gave a figure around 3,000 units were needed for people who are working downtown. So that tells me that maybe they can walk the two blocks to work, so less of a need for parking. You had one of the slides and one of the maps that also showed where parking is not required for housing developments. So really looking at bumping up the density downtown. Um, whether people are working, if they're working and living downtown, that means that they're also visiting the restaurants and cafes and stores downtown. Um, so I think it's really important to look at density downtown and then also look at mixed use. I know I talk about that, that building, um, quite a bit. Um, but it really is a shining example, not just because it's the housing authority doing it, but, um, because you see, um, what seems to be a successful retail shop, um, and And housing that is affordable to folks who are working downtown So I'd like to see a lot more mixed-use opportunities downtown And I think you you gave the example of how might we break up existing parcels or buildings?

How do I top that that's great I also We talk about adaptive reuse is what we're referring to taking those the buildings of some of them are quite deep and using the front for retail and the the back and upstairs for housing. Also, we need housing. It would be great to get 1,000, 2,000 new housing units. Some people are still going to have cars. We need to look at the circulation study. We've done some analysis. We need to do further analysis and formalize that, especially if we're going to open up some of the streets to be two-ways. So I just want to throw that as well.

I support your statement, but I would say minimum is where I come from. And how far you go beyond that needs to be very much responsive to carrying capacity in many of the things in which Chair Baas brought forward. We don't know what that number is. All I know is if you have 8,000 units that you're supposed to get, and I start just doing it in my head, where can they go in the city? half of it probably should go into downtown, whatever definition of that is. And we really need to start thinking hard about how we can accomplish that.

All right. I most definitely agree with this. Just to lay out like a few of the main quotes from the overall study is, you know, housing is critical to the future of downtown. The critical missing ingredient downtown is housing. These are the kind of terms that are used throughout this entire plan. And I think it's really important that we as a kind of community come together and ground ourselves that this whole plan is contingent on the promise that we are going to deliver meaningful housing downtown. And that's more important when we realize that less than 1% of our multifamily housing is downtown. that only 3% of our entire housing stock is downtown. So we have a lot of work to do to encourage and create more feasibility to make housing downtown work. And I'm really excited that I really do feel like as a whole community, this plan is going to bring us together and really focus and target that discussion of making significant progress downtown. I wanna talk about a couple of the different kind of Housing ideas that we have that I want to support and then go into some of the policy specifics and I want to just caveat that really all of my comments are really focused and Specific just through the lens of how we apply these to the downtown core. I'm not saying that this should be applied citywide It's more that like I think we need to focus our efforts To ensure that we make this meaningful progress that this plan really is depending on so first I want to ensure that the stormwater management is a top priority because all of the housing that we're talking about is contingent on us getting this right. So I want to be unequivocal about that. Second, I am very encouraged by how many times throughout this plan the surface parking lots and the need and the ability for us to look at doing affordable housing on top of those lots is mentioned. I think that should be step one of really looking at how can we move this ball forward now. Again, that goes back to my previous comments around Phasing that the phase one should include, you know efforts around this. This shouldn't be phase two Then I do support chair bosses comments regarding not just looking at parking lots But other city owned assets and how we can leverage those for housing I'm very Committed to identifying an ongoing funding stream for our affordable housing trust fund because I think that is something that is critical for our ability to continue to develop affordable housing and something that can't get lost in our ability to really deliver on this kind of overall goal. I love the idea and I'm glad that it was mentioned in the report as well of prioritizing looking at how we can create housing by either kind of doing lot splits and allowing the front to be retail and allowing for these long corridor buildings to then have housing in the back. I understand and I thought that the plan did a good job of pointing out that, you know, there's building code issues. There would need to be significant policy work to actually allow this to happen. And I think it's important that we start to do that work now to facilitate that. I am supportive of many of the recommendations that were listed in Appendix F, I believe it is, on pages like 304, 305, that area, to reduce barriers to development, specifically and only in the downtown corridor that we're talking about. because I do think that, you know, given the lack of progress that we've made on housing, you know, we're well into our housing element at this point, and we have not made, we're not even close to reaching anywhere near arena goals. So I think we just need to be a little bit realistic about how far away we are. And so the importance of really getting more bold for this downtown core, given the, you know, the emphasis on housing for the whole success of this plan is important. So some of those policies that were talked about is The obvious thing that we all keep talking about, which is permitting streamlining and creating real timelines so that developers and folks that are trying to build housing, the housing authority, everyone, that they have a good sense of how long something's going to take and that they can depend on that timeline because we all understand that time costs more money and then these projects don't happen, right? How many projects we've reviewed that don't actually come to fruition is something that I'm acutely aware of and I think we need to really do everything we can from a streamlining permitting perspective for the downtown area to facilitate this in a better way. Second is density. I think that throughout this entire plan, you've mentioned the importance of increasing density over and over again. And I think that that is something for the downtown that we really need to prioritize and from a policy workflow is something that we should look at in phase one and start to get folks excited that development downtown can become more economically feasible if we're looking at getting, you know, increasing density in a meaningful way. The next, I think, you know, I'm happy that we talked about in this plan, you know, facilitating adaptive reuse in a more robust way. I've heard, you know, many times that it's very difficult to make this work. Obviously, the policy is very well intended, but if there are specific things that we can do to make it easier for folks, I think we should look into that and that should be a priority of how we're moving forward. I think that in the plan it also noted exploring rezoning and ensuring that the zones where we want to have housing that we actually get housing. And I think that's something that we should definitely look at when we're thinking through the workflow and next steps. This is something that I'm going to say that's only specific, very specific to downtown because I really love our open yard requirements. But when we're looking at downtown, I'm very open to reducing the open yard requirements because I can understand from a lot line to lot line perspective, it's very difficult for us to build housing and accommodate the open yard requirement. Now, again, I really am supportive of the open yard requirement, but in this context, I think that we need to really evaluate what we can do and what's actually feasible to achieve these goals of 1,000 to 2,000 units or, as Bauke said, higher. And I think, you know, really taking a hard look at permit fees. So if, you know, one of the recommendations was to eliminate or significantly reduce permit fees, also to defer or reduce PROPERTY TAXES. I THINK ALL OF THE TOOLS IN OUR TOOL CHEST THAT WE ARE BEING TOLD OVER AND OVER AGAIN ARE NECESSARY FOR US TO REEVALUATE IN ORDER TO CREATE THE FEASIBILITY TO BUILD DOWNTOWN ARE THINGS THAT WE NEED TO EVALUATE AND LOOK AT IN PHASE ONE OF THIS OVERALL PLAN. AND THEN I WOULD SAY, IS THIS MY LAST ONE? One of the most important things to me that as we do all of the above is that we explore every legal option to ensure that the housing that we build goes towards locals. I was really encouraged that number one that this was called out in the plan specifically and also from the discussion that happened around Paseo. One of the concerns that I think people have around housing development in general is that we just build more than just out of town people buy second homes. everything we can do to ensure that this massive investment that we're about to make into facilitating housing downtown goes towards locals getting housing downtown is really important. So I hope that that can be part of the first phase workload because I do see that as a critical component of this being accepted and excited about in the community. So that's my question. Those are my comments for this. Thank you.

Okay. My answer is going to be a lot shorter than that. Um, the, um, I appreciated chair bosses coming in about city owned assets in addition to, um, the parking lots. I think that's, that's important to look at. Um, I also agree with commissioner Baki's comment about we support incorporating a minimum of 1000 to 2000, uh, new housing units. I thought that was a point very well taken. And that's what we should be aiming towards as a minimum. But also, Commissioner Bauke talked about the critical to this housing supply is our stormwater management changes and the treatment of our stormwater and implementing plans for alternative compliance to stormwater treatment. Commissioner Bauke talked about the size of the pipes and I know we're in the process now, but I think it's very important that we know, you know, we really have done a good study of potentially how much housing might be provided in this area so that we can, when we get to the final design work of this, um, stormwater management system and the, and the in lieu fee compliance. that we know what we're talking about and that we don't under-design. I think that's crucial. And I think Commissioner Wardlow talked about exploring rezoning. I think that also would be a good thing to look at because we might actually get more housing out of that by looking at some potential rezoning. And I think... Yeah, that's all of my comments. Thank you.

All right, we'll move on to the next one, implementation. Does the Planning Commission agree with the action items listed in the implementation chapter of the Draft Master Plan Chapter 6? And I'll start with Commissioner Bauke this time.

And the answer is yes. So I really don't have – I'd spend hours if we want to get into beyond that. But the answer – I believe – Tess has done a good job of outlining all the things and all the different funding mechanisms. I didn't find one missing, so they're all there. The question is going to be, as we get into this, choices as to what happens first, second, third. And this thing is going to have to be interactive. I look at the plan as sort of the north star that we work towards, and I think that's how I'd look at it.

Go to Vice Chair Delucio.

So there's a page in the master plan. It's a monitoring page. It has like metric goals. I think that's, to me, that is like the grade of how you set up your goals and how you perform, and And I believe you'll be doing monitoring on a frequent basis. And from that, you would be able to make adjustments to the plan, to your goals. Do you know which one I'm talking about? I think that's, to me, that was like one of the most helpful.

Commissioner DiLuccio, there was a section towards the end that's monitoring and adaptation as key performance indicators. That one? Yes.

Yeah, that one. I think that one is... That's like the report card, which I...

Exactly.

Yeah.

Okay. My answer to this one is yes and, to the extent possible, prioritize development of the suitable sites and other potential housing sites specifically on city-owned land. And... I will also add... Maybe this gets into the other, but we do need to prioritize studying and settling on the utility and infrastructure plan, so not just stormwater but other components there.

Thank you, Madam Chair. The utility, I'll use a different term, everything underground. My own experience in these matters is, you know, you want to change the kitchen faucet, because the water's not working right. And you realize that changing the kitchen faucet isn't really the issue. It's pulling all the wall off and looking at the inside of the wall. That's where the issue is. And you may recall the Peabody Stadium for the high school. It was a $12 million project. And they dug down and they found that the entire Riviera Ridge in the 20s had pipes that came down and went right through the stadium. And instead of 12 million, it cost them 39 million. And that was underground. So we don't really know what we've got underground down there because it's old. And I agree with every comment that's been made here. It isn't just the stormwater. It's the utilities and whatever is going to be under there. And it needs to plan for the future. So I put one of those. I mean, that's one of the very, very first things I would like to see the timeline. really laid out in months and years so we know what it means, as opposed to just immediate, short-term, et cetera. And some of these things, the zoning issue is a big one, and that can go parallel to whatever we're thinking about doing as far as construction is concerned. Thank you.

Okay, yes, I think I agree with the action items listed in the implementation chapter, chapter six. But I would like to see this matrix organized by immediate, short-term, medium-term, and long-term goals. I think that would make it a lot clearer, because I'm finding, you know, I'm jumping around a lot. So, and perhaps even adding after listening to Commissioner Barnwell talk, perhaps adding just something about what phase, Ms. Harris, you think these belong in. If it's short, if it's medium term, are you looking at phase two? Or maybe just adding that wherever you possibly can. Obviously, immediate is immediate. But I think that would be very helpful. Thank you.

I think on the implementation question. So in general, I'm supportive of a lot of this. But as I've made comments in previous aspects of this plan, I do really think that we need to, number one, put into the plan that there will be in phase one policy work to support what is needed for housing. Because right now, I do not see that in any of the phases of implementation. And we all understand how long it takes to develop and adjust city policies. So I think we need to be very clear that that needs to be one of the first things that we're working on alongside the other aspects of phase one is the policy development and making those tweaks that we need to and doing the research to understand how really what out of the kind of list of options that you guys have provided in the appendix what are the ones that make the most sense? Because I think that I would like to see really an evaluation of those so that we can then push forward on those strongly and quickly. Second, to some of the points that my other fellow commissioners have made, again, stormwater management, prioritizing that I think is very important. I did notice that, and I really like that we're doing this, on page 173 we talk about the storefront activation and business recruitment. and kind of the work that we're gonna do to support small businesses while we go through this massive transformation, because we all know it's not fun to be in massive under construction while you're trying to conduct business. So I think that those efforts should be really focused in phase one and throughout, but I just wanna make sure that it's kicked off sooner than later. And then there was another component. Oh, again, I mentioned this earlier, the conversion of city parking lots. THAT'S NOTED AS IN PHASE TWO. I STILL THINK WE NEED TO START ALL THIS WORK IN PHASE ONE. another thing is just in this section we do talk about financing and I just want to ensure that like we're going after every tool possible understanding that we are about to do a significant upgrade in housing and that is are there additional financing tools available to us because we're making such an investment into financing into housing I don't know the answer to that but I just want to make sure that we're really looking at that since we're making such a big commitment towards something that the state has been really asking us to do and then Lastly, again, importance of phasing all of this with Daily Gear Plaza. But otherwise, I think that the overall timeline makes a lot of sense to me. Just the concern around not having the policy work built into it is, I think, definitely needs to be addressed.

Okay. We're going to move to the catch-all other. So this is your chance. I can say anything here, right? Especially if there are any specific policies. I know that was the request from staff as if there are any specific policies and get as specific as possible around moving forward and prioritizing housing in the downtown area. But I'll read the question, other. Are there elements of the draft master plan that the planning commission would like to see explored further before finalizing the plan or during the detailed design and engineering stage? And this time I'll go to Vice Chair DiLuccio first.

Thank you. Is that the any other areas staff should explore further? Is that what I'm answering? Okay. Are we going to be having a brainstorming with council on housing? I guess I heard something about that. Is that before this gets adopted?

Commissioner DiLuccio, Mr. Valdez mentioned that there would be a joint session with council and planning commission in August. I am not sure that that session will happen before adoption. I am really aiming to... hopefully get to council for adoption of the master plan also in August. So I don't know which one will come first. Okay. But,

That would be useful as far as going forward with this anyway, whether it's adopted or not.

Commissioner DiLuccio?

Yes.

I apologize for interrupting, but I do want to just frame it that the policies as they relate to the master plan, so don't go too far afield in all the housing policies we could possibly adopt, so bring it back to the master plan.

I'm not going to go there, but I just wanted to see if some of that would be incorporated, but it sounds like there's always an opportunity as we go forward whether this plan's adopted or not. Also, the e-bike enforcement, thank you for your answer on that, and that's going to take fleshing out, and when this gets implemented as we go forward, we'll have to work on that some more. But I was thinking of something for the pavement, when you do the pavement of the streets, is there some kind of pavements you can use that would slow down the bikes? I'm just going to throw that out. You don't need to answer the question right now. And then finally, from the overnight off-peak for the cars, would there be bikes at that time also and cars? Do you envision both?

Commissioner DiLuccio, yes. Bikes would be allowed at all times on the 24th.

So my personal input for council on this would be instead of right now it's flexible. Flexible to me means we need to find closure on that, and hopefully council will – will come to a decision of how they want to do that, have cars or not. I almost feel like having cars overnight is just almost like, I like the way the plan's been laid out, thank you very much. This plan, to me, is not a plan that has cars on State Street. And I just feel like we're trying to be accommodating by saying, oh, overnight, we'll open it up to have some cars on State Street. That's the way this is laid out to me, because it's almost like an afterthought. by putting cars at 10 midnight to 10 a.m. I actually, some years ago, I have a nephew that lives with me, and back before the pandemic, I would pick him up when he worked at a fast food at like two, three o'clock in the morning, and I went down State Street, and there was nobody coming down State Street, like you suggested, very few cars. I really didn't feel safe, actually, being in my car overnight coming down State Street, so I'm probably, differ with you a little bit. And I'm from New York, as you know, so I'm pretty tough. So I just want to throw that out, but hopefully we'll find some closure on that. Thank you.

We'll go to Commissioner Bauke next.

On this, I just have a couple items, and I think we've probably touched on them. I just want to emphasize them. Number one, the 400 block needs a design that we can implement. It could be an appendix. Here is... block 400 when we have two-way traffic. So it just is there and ready to go when that day happens, including whatever gateway feature. And I don't want to see the arch thing like Stephanos and I. We see these in a lot of communities. It's sort of their urban design thing. They throw up this arch in their name of their city. I mean, it's about as generic as possible. Let's not do that. The other is the 1300 block, we need to design for that. And you gotta understand the Arlington is such an important feature and there will be times, so we do have times in which that street section is blocked, especially like for the film festival situation. So we need to figure out what that is and what the best case scenario for that when we have that condition knowing that on a Daily basis that still maybe have a two-way street But we definitely need to come up with what's the the best design for that because that is a very very important feature and honestly could be an anchor to one end of the the whole plan I Definitely want to make sure we don't forget the raised intersection conversation that we definitely look very hard at that because I think it could simplify a lot of this and It may complicate some things, but may simplify the actual design of the project. And then the other, which is to be as flat as possible with the provision that the whole thing's about it feeling as much as a pedestrian environment and not a car environment. And that's a balancing act because we have a lot of things we're dealing with here. But I think you've done a good job on that right now, Stephanos. It's just purely a question of Can we get to the project in Florida that you have in your plan? Could we do something closer to that than what we have? There's probably somewhere in between. That's where I come in. Thank you.

Thank you again for all the time on this. I think the majority of my points I've kind of gone through, but I have a couple I'll just reinforce. So obviously housing and the policy work that we need to do I think should be very important to number one. I think really focusing on density and what that can look like, understanding what we're up against and the impact that state law can have on that discussion, I think that's really important. Um, uh, I think that addressing to some of my other commissioners points, you know, making sure that we're doing everything we can from the design perspective around bikes to ensure that we're not building the largest bike lane, that we're really focusing where the bikes are and how that enforcement works. Um, and then, you know, how we differentiate the zones I think is very important. And I'm excited to have that discussion later where we dive more into the lighting and texture and all of that great things that are going to make it beautiful. I think it's important that we look at throughout this report they talk about the dead zone in the Civic Center especially because there's just not as many restaurants like how we think about activating that area should be a focus. I do really agree with my commissioners on the 400 block and the 1300 block that there needs to be more focus there of like how we're incorporating that and what kind of investment we need to make there and to me those can be some of the ones where we look at that in the more near term of how we start to um, make State Street work better today. Um, and then as I've mentioned, I think looking at, you know, playgrounds and safe spaces for kids to be kids to be incorporated into this plan would be something I'd really like to see, um, as well as some type of, you know, homage and, and ability to do events like music events outside. Cause I think that's something that I hear a lot in the community. We want to see more music events. We want to utilize our public spaces. So as we do this massive investment, can we think about how that can play into this? And then, this was one of my questions that I didn't ask, but the Downtown Development Authority, I'd love to learn more about what that can mean, what that can do, and I think having that be a priority could be really helpful in kind of moving some of these pieces along, so I want to get that kind of rolling, and then The last thing that I didn't get to go into in my questions is the utilities. I am a little concerned about the idea of moving the utilities. I think that we need a lot more information of what that would cost and also just the disruption to traffic. If we're going to move the utilities because we understand that they're going to have to have a number of improvements made, and we don't want to disrupt State Street, but we want to disrupt Anacapa and Chapala, I just would like more further analysis on what that means, because from a traffic circulation perspective, that seems concerning to me. So just putting that out there. And that's all I have. Oh, wait, yeah, and now up to you.

Okay, so this question in full is... Are there elements of the draft master plan that the planning commission would like to see explored further before finalizing the plan or during the detailed design and engineering stage? So I'm, I think I'm going back to potentially how many units we could have, because I think that, and, and my fellow commissioners are right. It's the sizing of all the utilities, not just stormwater that are important. So during the engineering phase, I think a little bit, some more work has to be done to. if we stick with minimum of 1,000 to 2,000 units, but what is the potential realistically? Because I think that's going to be important to finalize engineering. And I had my wish list. So the De La Guerra Plaza design, integrating it with the State Street Master Plan is very important to me. That's a very important civic space here, and I think that needs some attention. Oh, consideration of a design element, and I don't know what this would be. It sounds kind of, I don't know, a board or signage. that announces current and future events at all the venues in the Arts District. I think that would be, you know, a what's going on board would be really nice. I don't know how you would present that, but... I think that might excite people to get tickets on the spot and, oh, this looks like fun, et cetera. And so that's more in detailed design. I have some concern about shrubbery and ground cover due to ongoing maintenance issues. We have areas of the city that are not very well maintained in terms of our shrubbery and ground covers. So I think we need to really seriously think about where they go in this area. And we need to really have a firm maintenance plan if we're going to have shrubbery and ground covers. I have down here study in more detail the 16 Paseo entries along State Street for lighting, art, and security to integrate with the specific State Street districts. Public restroom facilities, I think Commissioner Wardlow mentioned that, but I don't know if each district should have public restrooms, but I think that's something that needs to be addressed now and how we're going to do that. And then I have consider signage at surrounding parking garages that define wayfine parking for each district. So maybe that doesn't make any sense to me that I'm reading it. But maybe signs at the garages, if you want to go to the civic and commercial district, you know you park here or something like that i don't know um um and then one thing i've already mentioned is that when we do get to the part where there'll be some opening of the street for maintenance you know putting up flags garbage all that stuff um we should have a the city should definitely implement a managed vehicular appointment system outside of the regular window I think that's going to help us monitor that and maybe change if we have to. And then definitely the 400 block and the 1300 block. I think those are important. And I'm gathering the 1300 block is not in the contract right now. But also the last comment I have is Consideration for a special feature or landscaping for those ground floor offices in the 700 to 900 block that alleviate the diminished vitality of the blocks because they're just windows and also no frosted glass anymore on ground floors. That's all part of that same thing. And that's my comments. Thank you.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I have 1,000 of them, but I'm going to go quickly through only about 500 or 600. A true timeline, number one. The parades are a huge, big deal for me. Ironically, the first parade that we had, the Fiesta Parade, was put on by businesses to draw people from Los Angeles to increase commerce, and yet now we're saying, that that very parade itself, the Fiesta, will not be able to go down the boulevard, which has a huge effect on the net income stream of all of those businesses along State Street who used to take the patrons of the parade and fill up with them coming in to have a drink or have a bite to eat. That isn't happening. I think that's unfortunate that we've not recognized the connection to business that putting those parades on State Street has. I like the parades on Santa Barbara Street, big open lawns, et cetera. But it isn't the same thing. And as far as our businesses, which are the backbone of what we're doing and the ones that we're going to go to and help us on this thing, there's got to be a trade-off for us having some of those parades go down that street. The promenade component and bicycling needs some enforcement. My experience is that the physical geometry of the ground is much more controlling than signage, even policing. So several of my other commissioners mentioned, is there some ground changes in the ground texture? And I know that there are. And they could be put in next week, because they're almost the size of an electric cord. They're only that big. And the bicycles hit it, and it makes them slow down. They're not expensive. The transit by buses is always by another company. It isn't by the city. And we have run into many times where we're planning on things because there's a bus stop and then MTA moves the bus stop. So I would suggest that whatever we come up with for this bus route or any other additional bus route that feeds downtown, we have, as the city organization, we have a hand in the selection of those routes and where they stop, et cetera, because we don't want to be left planning on one and then it doesn't happen. A zoning issue, and maybe it doesn't happen now, but we need to provide for parking, as Commissioner DiLucchio has just said, and we're not. We have the new state law that says you don't have to have any on-site parking. People are going to need to park. How do we tie in the need to park with this expansion in residential. Because if we expand residential in this area where we are talking about right now, there's not going to be parking for those residential units. Just sure as the world, because the developers aren't going to do it. And if it's adaptive reuse, there won't be either. So the larger question about parking, and I would love to have this be emblazoned in neon lights, but housing is not a single word. It's a double hyphenated word. It's housing transportation. You can't talk about one without talking about the other. And transportation isn't just cars going putt-putt down the road. It's where does the car go to bed at night? And that's the parking issue. All of those are together. If you're talking about one, you must talk about the other. So when we talk about the 1,000 to 2,000 units downtown, we need to talk about a parking availability problem. maybe not just in the lots of the open city lots, but other places. The paseos. We threw that word out and then nobody said a word about it. They're vitally important. I don't know how this encourages them. It just says, gosh, they're great. But how do we encourage that? And in the encouragement of it, I am thinking that in the future, We might want to think about signage on the backside of all of these buildings. So again, someone in an automobile, as Mr. Posaitis just mentioned, can see what that store is by not having to go down State Street, but can see it from Chapala or Anacapa. But those paseos are hugely important. And I don't see, other than just talking about it, I don't know how we're encouraging that. And I wish that we could find a way to do that. We haven't talked about art. We have had an awful lot of projects come in front of us where we insist on some art component. Gosh, that needs to be in here. And a sidebar, I really like the new art at Carrillo and State Street. It's not Chumash. How in the world did that get approved? That's not Chumash Native American art. Oh, my God. We can't let it happen again. That cannot. I mean, God bless all the other Native Americans, but we cannot do that again and not have that be Chumash art. I'm going to wrap it up by just saying it's exciting to be part of this. It's also exciting to have Mr. Palazzoides say that this is a design discussion, not a final plan, because we're going to iron out the tree types and all that other sort of stuff, which will be fun, too. But it's very exciting. I feel much better about this discussion than I did coming in, because I thought we were going to build this tomorrow, and now I realize we're still planning. So thank you for all that work. Everybody.

All right. Keeping in mind we do have to be out of this room in 20 minutes, we'll go back to Commissioner Wardlow.

I just have one final comment. I agree with a lot of the things that Commissioner Barnwell and Commissioner Wiscombe said. But lastly, just on the economic development aspect in the report, you mentioned potentially hiring an economic development manager. Most cities of our size have an economic development department that really works on bringing tenants in and attracting new business. And I think that's something that we should really think about as we go through this transition and also to really address the concerns that we're hearing from DSBIA and others about the vacancies. I was, I really did appreciate the work in the plan that really explained more about the vacancies and the perception of vacancies. And given that the issue is less than I think a lot of us thought, it seems that if we were to have, you know, an economic development person and lead that was really dedicated to that, that maybe that could make a substantial difference. I don't know, but I think it's something worth exploring, given that most cities have that kind of infrastructure.

Commissioner Bauke.

I just happened to miss the one item that was on my notes. It's really clear from listening to the council when you get into the questions of time of day and such, they have all kinds of opinions. And I think it would be definitely important to basically have a separate operational plan which is not part of this. So you're not having to amend this document. I look at this document as like a master plan thesis for this is what we're doing for the next 20, 30 years and getting to this, basically the North Star. Well, there's gonna be all kinds of decisions made on when cars are there, when service vehicles are there and such. I can see this going back and forth because it is somewhat political, honestly, that we don't want to get into amendments of this plan for those reasons that we should have something separate that they operate on.

You have an interim plan, but

There should be an interim plan and an operations plan, which is separated out from this document. So that was the thought that I forgot to add to my list. Thank you.

Great. Okay. Any other comments before I give mine? All right. So my wish list to further explore and include, there was a discussion at the council, and I think there was mention today of exploring other communities that have longer of main streets or promenades. So I think in the final version that would be helpful to include in the appendices. It's been said already, but incorporate the 1300 block and add more thought to the 400 block. More detailed funding and financing strategies. One might include, I think council member Santa Maria suggested a commercial vacancy tax. I'm a big fan of what was the downtown shuttle. I know that we don't have, that they're not open air anymore, which with closed windows, that means that there's air conditioning and heating, which is also great. But it was a great opportunity for me as when I first moved to Santa Barbara to hop on, hop off, explore downtown. And I've done that in other cities like New Orleans, Boston, Portland, Maine, they all have something along those lines. And it's been really helpful for me to not want to walk, you know, all, all of that way. Um, but to see something and be able to, to stop. So, um, I'd encourage more of the shuttle trolley than the, the golf cart. Um, so yeah. Um, and then, uh, specifying the partnerships like the one with Santa Barbara botanic garden, I think council member Friedman brought that up, um, and just calling that out and other potential partnerships with nonprofits or other community organizations. A commitment to public services, including restrooms, water fountains, and benches. I walked down here from my office today and was walking by some folks who were saying, where's a place to sit? So they were tourists who were just, one had a walker or a cane. They were looking for a place to sit and there wasn't one. So we need more of those. And then finally, a commitment to increasing the housing supply downtown. And that includes maybe a real number of the housing units that are, I know it's a balance between what is needed and what is realistic. But what is needed, we've looked at the housing element, suitable sites inventory analysis, which didn't involve talking to property owners, I think. So it should involve talking to property owners instead of just saying, you have this size parcel, we could build this many housing units. So engaging in those actual conversations, the employment analysis based on how many jobs are downtown, and then further study of city parking and other city lots. Policy changes including permit streamlining and fees, understanding limits and the threshold even with improved utilities and infrastructure for additional housing. what zoning or land use changes would be required to bring housing to the different districts, and finally density. But that is my wish list. Any other comments for today? Yeah, I think we're in the consideration of time. We're not going to re-summarize all of our questions and our comments. We'll trust that you have them. But I do just want to thank you and give an opportunity to other commissioners to thank you. This is, I know you got the standing ovation at City Council, so it's There's not an audience today, but I think you would get the same. We really appreciate it. It's a beautiful, well-thought-out plan, and just appreciate this effort and now moving it forward more quickly. So thank you.

Commissioner Wiscom. Thank you, Madam Chair. I'd like to echo that. You've just done, Ms. Harris, you've done a marvelous job on this. I don't know, I probably would have quit a couple years ago but you've stuck with it and it's just been a great process and I hear from people how wonderful it's been. And Mr. Palazzoides, thank you very much for bringing this home for us and getting it done. I think it's exciting and it's gonna be exciting to see it implemented. Dave Davis made a good comment, I don't know if I still, have it and I think we need to keep it in mind oh meaningful change is patient and layered is what he said in his letter which is I think very true when it comes to this there will be a lot more work to do but I think it's a very exciting point and time in our community is I think very grateful to all of you for the teamwork and patience and that you have taken to get to this stage, so thank you.

Vice Chair DiLuccio.

I just want to make one final observation. When I was going through the presentation and looking at the pictures, then I was visualizing what it's going to look like, and some of the pictures are not even what it is. You just took pictures that could visualize what this can become, and it was so well done that when I was looking at the pictures, I had to go back and say, no, it doesn't look like that now. the pictures look like State Street. It looked like what it could be, and I could visualize it, so I just want to pay that compliment. I thought that was just wonderful. Thank you, and thank you for all the work you guys have put in on this.

All right. I think with that, we will close this item, so thank you. Moving into the administrative agenda. Oh, I'm sorry. Sorry. Go ahead.

I just needed a single minute to thank you for your patience and your kind words for our work, but also for your very constructive comments. Not in order to take out your weapons, I just want to make clear that there are two aspects to any kind of work of this size, of this scope, and this kind, and that is that some issues are systemic and other issues are details. So I think you really need to fight very hard for the systemic issues. And if the systemic issues go wrong, the whole project goes wrong. And those are the water response systems that we need to introduce, the numbers of lanes, the kinds of lanes, the nature of the paving and the understanding of the dimensions of everything. I mean, those are fundamental infrastructural issues. those need to be absolutely the best, the most complete, the most extraordinary we can get. I'm not suggesting that the art or the music places or this and the other and the other and the other, the four inch versus the six inch here and there and there are not important. They're very, very important, but they could be added and subtracted and the place would still work, it would still live. And actually, the greatest place of this kind end up getting transformed over time in possible ways that one could never predict in advance. But the systemic issues are the ones I think as a committee they should be fighting for.

Thank you.

Thank you very, very much.

Closing this item, I think we will postpone the administrative portion of our agenda unless we have any critical committee or liaison reports. Okay, with that. We will adjourn in under seven hours at 5.20pm. We'll see everyone on June 4th.

Thank you.