City Council - Regular Meeting

Well, that would not .

Thank you.

I love that. Thank you.

Thank you.

Madam Chair, we are good to go whenever you're ready.

Good evening, all. Welcome to tonight's Sandy City Council meeting. We're grateful to have those who are joining us tonight, both in the chambers and online. We always like to start our meeting with a prayer, voluntary, of course, and followed by a pledge. Is there anyone who would volunteer to say our prayer this evening? Thank you.

Our Father in heaven we're thankful for this opportunity we have together as employees, residents and those concerned about Sandy City. We're grateful for this opportunity to meet, to discuss, to deliberate together. We pray for the blessings and guidance to be with us and all we do to make wise decisions for our residents. We're grateful for all the good things in our lives and we say these things in the name of Jesus Christ. Amen.

Thank you. And if we'll please stand and join together in saying the Pledge of Allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Mr. Jensen for offering that prayer and for everyone for joining in the pledge. I will start with introductions over on the side with our colleagues council staff Thank You madam chair.

I'm Justin Sorensen.

I'm the council assistant director I'm Tracy and counsel for the council Chris Edwards with the council office Chris nickel district 3 Cindy Sharkey at large

Marcy Houseman district 4. Allison Stroud district 2. Brooke D'Souza at-large.

Martin Jensen CAO. I'd like to excuse Mayor Zoltanski tonight. Lynn Price city attorney.

And I need to jump over to Zoom here really quickly. Do we have Mr. DeKaiser was not yet. OK. And and I haven't heard anything from Ms. Christensen. What was that? Oh, so she's excused for this evening, I believe. OK. So I think that's all of our introductions. We are looking forward to a great meeting, short meeting. Hint, hint. We're going to be efficient while we learn about a couple of key things. So we're going to jump right in. We do take public comment, but per our policy, we do not do that prior to 6 o'clock PM. But if any of you are in the chambers and wanting to provide public comment, know that we'll all be watching the clock. And once we have an appropriate transition to the public comment, I'm happy to take it. In the back, there are some blue cards that you'll fill out that let us know you want to speak to the council tonight. So we're going to start with item one, which will be a good, robust work session from our partners from Galloway Architects. And you're sort of managing this more than I am, but whatever you need from me, I'm happy. So we'll just turn the time over to you. What will help us is you being really clear on what you need from us tonight so that we make sure we stay focused and give you the feedback and the responses that you need.

Wonderful. We've got a couple handouts, too. Okay. Thank you. Thank you.

Well, that is passing those around. Just a couple of introductions on our team. I'm Scott Holmes, principal with Galloway. I'm also the project manager for this exciting endeavor. It's not often you get this opportunity to go through a process, to re-envision a space that's been around for a few decades. Call it that.

Absolutely. Thank you. Wonderful.

On my right is Jim Tyler, project architect. On my left is our senior interior designer, Annette Coleman. So both of them are also involved in the project, and it won't be the last time you see our faces, I hope. But yes, Justin, can we start the presentation? So a couple of key objectives and goals tonight. We had intended to take you all to a couple of facilities to witness in action other councils' meetings or also talk about their spaces in particular, dive into a little bit more of the details as we start to collaborate on what does it mean to re-envision this space specifically, not only for this body, but also for your constituents as well. In place of doing that, we are here to walk you through a few of our projects that we have done over years past. I believe a few of you have been to some of said projects, and this is intended to be engaging not only on our behalf, but also amongst yourselves as well. So at any time, please stop, ask the question, interject. We want this exercise to feel as if we were sitting across from a conference table And we are diving deep into ideas and collaborating and making sure that we get the feedback that is necessary for our team to then respond and provide appropriate design opportunities and options that will come back to this body for consideration. So that is our primary objective. Excuse me. I've got it right here. Oh, there we go. Okay. Perfect. So a couple of key objectives, a part of our discussion this evening is to outline what it means to create flexibility in our projects and specifically when it relates to council meetings or utilizing those spaces for any other additional opportunities that the public can utilize and or staff can utilize as well. So flexibility is always something that we have focused first and foremost. We have a space behind us that is underutilized or not utilized infrequently. So is there an opportunity to bring that space into these meetings and or planning commission or create opportunities where it's enlarged so it can be utilized in a better environment? We also want to ensure that we don't lose sight and we improve upon the public's engagement opportunities. The stadium-style seating, all three of us have sat in here multiple times over the years in various capacities. It has its intentions as well, but it also is an older model and an older vision, and so we want to make sure we can focus on asking the questions and having conversations, is this the right approach to maintain? Is there a better way to go about staging seating and making it more flexible and more inviting for the public? increasing the use the frequency right I just mentioned behind us that is used more frequently than anything but also consider this space about how we can improve its frequency of use as well in addition to just council meetings or planning commission or any other public information session that the city has We also want to talk about accessibility. And what do we mean by accessibility? That's not only what's required to meet federal guidelines or state codes or building codes, but that's accessibility for everybody. Oftentimes we can be narrow focused and just make sure that we provide what is minimum. We like to take an approach of going beyond that. So we are treating equally amongst all the citizenry, but also the council body and also staff. One of the most important is future-proofing, right? This design had a vision so many years ago, right? But that vision needs to be reimagined. And so part of our process is also making sure that we are future-proofing the decisions that we make in this process, that they're also adaptable in the future. And then last but certainly very important is talking about security. Our changes in civic dialogue and engagement have changed, as we all are aware of, and we want to make sure that we have the opportunity as a design team in conjunction with your input and council leadership as well that we make sure that we provide not only the visible but also talk about the invisible security opportunities that are available as part of this process. Those are our bigger picture objectives this evening. We'll talk about those and some of the examples. And then following, Jim will take us into a bigger discussion and talk about some more specific elements that are related to this project.

Okay?

Any questions? All right. Wonderful.

Well, I am going to walk you through a few of our projects. I know, again, like Scott mentioned, I know you've been to some of these. But we wanted to go through some of our design objectives as we went through these projects. So Bountiful City Hall, our first one, I don't know how many of you are aware of the process that that one went through. It had several iterations before it landed in our laps. And we were so glad it did. But essentially, it came down to remodeling the existing City Hall. What we did is we took the opportunity when we took it down to just four walls to create more functional space within within that four walls and we pulled their Center City Council Chambers to the outside of the building and so along with that Yes So where it was in the middle previously, we were able to pull it to the outside. We created a new entry here. They had two different entries on the building previously and then created the working spaces for offices on both sides of those. So as the public entered in one entrance without confusion, you can see exactly where you need to go from this main lobby. We took advantage of these views up to the bountiful bench, those beautiful mountains, the temple up there, and we created a clerestory window. So as you're sitting there, you can look up above the council chambers and they have those windows. The other thing that we addressed in this design was their security. They didn't have essentially escape routes. And so from the dais, we have three different routes for escape. Council to get out of the space in case there is a need for that as well as creating ballistic panel design Behind the dais, so there's a duck and protection element to that dais design the other thing we did is we created a security point across the front of the Space and so essentially this becomes two spaces two useful spaces when it's not City Council they can close this off and it can be used for community use and So we've got public access here and through these couple of doors and then we have secure Access here secure access here for that back of house for the council to remove themselves from that space Right adjacent to it is that council workroom? So a council can enter from here as they're finishing up a session here or exit here as they're starting a session in The main area as well as the back of house space from the offices So that was our design on this floor plan this is that public lobby we have the windows from that viewing similar to what you have here so if somebody were standing on to the lobby they could still see into the council space again that public lobby you know if you're you know which department you need to go to based on that first entrance. And then in the council chambers, there are those clerestory windows we talked about. I wish we had a better straight-on view, but I couldn't find one. So you could see up into that view there. And then that's our curtain, and it drops down from the ceiling, and that's with the curtain closed. So it becomes a usable space with the monitors and also with a whiteboard on that curtain.

A couple other things to point out. That divider achieves multiple functions. One, it secures the dais space. So if you had to have another small little function back behind there but separated from the public, you could do so. But more so, it maintains that, for instance, all this equipment that is true to this dais is also then protected. If there's another function that needs to be held, it provides that as well. You kind of see on the right photo, right side, there's the hint of white. Those are marker boards. I got the experience to be in this space in a public session for one of the parks projects that the city undertook and had public there and we had a very engaging session utilizing that whiteboard and we essentially filled it all the way across with ideas, with post-its. large format post-its, it really did serve its intended purpose. That gives you an example of what can be done when you divide a space in the proper ratio.

All right. And then we'll move forward, and this is that council workroom conference room off to the side of the council room.

Part of our goals for this project is to create and reinvent that council. That space behind here. So one of the main elements is also thinking about how many perimeter seating opportunities do we want to have. There may be times where you also can invite the public or have to have the public invite a part of your sessions and or other staff. So we want to make sure that we balance appropriately not only the needs for the activities themselves at the main table but also its perimeters.

All right West Jordan City Hall. This was again a complete remodel in a different fashion because we still had some existing elements that we had to work with. We couldn't completely get the space. They did try to occupy through construction but we found that that just didn't work for the the magnitude of what we were doing in the space. And so main lobby, and the council is up here on this side. So you have an elevator access, stair access on all sides of this one. Let's see.

If I could raise a quick raise of hands, I believe some of you have been to...

toward that one. So this is that third floor council chamber and actually the entire council space that we created. You have your public access from that main atrium on that third floor and then the restrooms available for that public access. We have secure points here, here, and then off the council chamber. This one was unique in that we were dealing with the existing council dais. We were not changing that. The only thing we did was add ballistic paneling behind there. But as far as the actual design and layout of that, we were not changing it. So it was really a finishes upgrade security upgrade for this space. Again you can see we have our council travel routes that can get you to that council workroom or into the council office space. They have a flex office right here so if you were meeting with somebody right off of the council chambers you could bring them into this space and that room was secured here and here. and then there was a lounge space for the council and again the the offices and Lobby reception area for that one thing we did add here again was that Curtain to protect this backspace and this becomes another usable space in any kind of event where they needed something just maybe a work session for a different department and

We do know going into this design that West Jordan seems to get a lot of civic participation from their community. So that was something that we definitely had to be mindful of. And that'll be part of our discussion here after our brief presentation.

And then just the finished, we did reskin the dais so it matched the remainder of the building as we updated those wood colors. And then just paint finishes, carpet, new furniture in that space. This is the area where that divider curtain goes across. And again, we did provide a divider curtain with that whiteboard space. Again, making it usable for those work sessions if they needed to separate that. And then the council... Let's see if this works. Doesn't go forward. This is not going forward, Justin. It's going backward, but if you want to take that forward one. This is the council workroom off that east side of the room. So they do have that perimeter seating in this space, as well as that council conference table. One thing we did in here, the ceilings used to be between here, and so they had all this empty space. I mean, you guys know the roof line on that building. In this and another space, we were able to capture more ceiling space for those rooms just to help them feel a little bit more welcoming and open.

Absolutely. It was quite a roommate. It really was. Before we leave this site, a couple other things to point out. In the right image... you see the two doors in the closed position. Those two doors are access controlled. So that is our security point to get into back of house, staff area, or council work areas, et cetera. So there are areas of refuge available, but we wanted to make sure that that secure point was strict and unique. Behind the plane of the TV on the wall lies a secondary door in the corridor that is also controlled. So the decision in guidance with the council and city administration was to maintain the one point of access that is in the door in the open position that allows public to move freely in and out when public is allowed in set space or also be utilized by the city by administration or other departments to hold an administrative level meeting or a department meeting. So again, keeping in mind flexibility, building in those opportunities where they are available.

One thing that we do like to do in our design and design objectives as we work with our clients is creating spaces that don't just sit empty for a majority of the time. We want to make sure that they are usable. So not every department may have a conference room. Who can share these conference rooms and these spaces so that they aren't just sitting empty because real estate is expensive. And so we want to make sure it's usable and also just that image to the public that you guys are using these spaces. Can you go forward? There we go. Bluffdale City Hall. Have any of you been out to this one? Yeah. It's a nice space. So this one is unique in that it shares the courts. And so we do have some spaces up here. So we've got some holding cells. We have this secure point here. But we also have where they pull out the magnetometer. for scanning and then they also wanted to create that community space so this is one full space if they needed to utilize it we do have that secure point here with the divider curtain we also have another secure point here with a divider curtain to create just that space with the dais behind it we have that the council conference room right directly behind there again that secure point here and secure point here creating those areas of refuge And then the public can come and enter in these spaces. Again, what we created here was that central lobby. As people walk in, they know where they're going. They can look one direction or another, and they know if they need to go to one of these departments or into that community courts or council space. And so that was, again, another unique one in that for the protection of the data, we have one here for courts. If it's a smaller case, they have that here. Or they can open it up for the full space. If it's a larger council meeting, they know they're going to have more community engagement for that space. And then this is just available for community events if they needed to just utilize that space with that secure point there. Anything additional on this one?

I don't think so. You covered it well.

OK. Again, the dais serving as also that court's bench. And you can see one of the curtains. This is that first curtain here right behind that dais. And so as it closes in the next.

That is not working for me, apparently.

There we go. So this is when it just opens up to the court space or a smaller council meeting where you can have that closed or, again, that curtain with that closed to protect the dais in a community event. And that open lobby with the entry points over here, the door, entry door here, where they can have that view of where they need to go.

Very similar to what we have here in existing conditions.

Mm-hmm. St. George City Hall, this is our most recent one.

And you might want to speak up on some of the design elements on this one.

But again, similar design spaces, trying to keep all of those together, but also create that community space. We have that central atrium here. We have the public entry here and here into those spaces. We have a divider curtain here and here to create, again, three different spaces with that protection of the dais. The dais was actually, instead of ballistic paneling, built out of cinder block. So it is really solid. They have that definite protection there. But they also have those areas of refuge where those doors that they can come out of where we have a secure point here and here as well as a secure point here. And then that council workroom just directly behind that wall. Was this office a council office? Yeah, that's a council office there. And then the council workroom here, which we are actually... Maybe not.

Yeah.

Yeah. So they changed it actually a little bit, and you'll see in the pictures. They went with a shorter table because they didn't have as many members. They didn't want public sitting at the table, so they just want council or city staff sitting at the table, and they created some... Assembly seating back in here as well as perimeter seating on this one and you'll see that in one of the pictures that we go through so public The atrium space. These are our entry points here into those council chambers community rooms. This is the council chamber with the dais right up in here those two doors back there those council secure points and

Oh, too far. Here we go.

Here we go.

And then this is the council workroom. So as you can see, again, they shortened up that table so they could create seating back in this space if they have more people attending. And then that way they don't have public sitting around the table with them. They're separated from the council during those work sessions.

Yeah.

Well, we've taken you through a bunch of different examples. And we can keep going on this because of what we've got. The first two that we looked at were really remodels. The second two that we looked at were new constructions. So we had a little more freedom to do whatever was wanted there. But I think the number one discussion topic, as you'll see on here, that we want to talk about here is really what do you want to be able to use this space for? You're right here as you walk in the front door. It obviously right now is very specific in its design. It works for your council meetings. It works for your planning commission meetings, those kinds of things. But that's about it. It's not being used. I mean, I've been here in this building enough to know that Most of the time I walk in here, this room is dark and not used. So my question becomes, that I'm going to ask you, so we're going to want some feedback from you guys, is one of the major goals that we've looked at on this is how to take these areas and make them more effectively used, more flexible use for other events. Currently, you do have space on the third floor that you use for some of those activities. Should they be happening in this area, not near the front door? And so the question is feedback on that. Any thoughts any of you folks have had?

Council members? Yes, Ms. Nichol.

To give you a little bit of background on why this room was built this way, it was built to do community theater.

Right. I knew it works as a stage, but it hasn't been used that way for about 10 or 12 years, I don't think, has it? Yeah.

It's gotten since the program has grown, so it grew out of this space. Sure. So the challenges here are width and depth, right? They're quite small. But this room, I'm not the one to ask what to use this room for because I only use it for one purpose, right? I think staff can answer the question better with regards to, and I mean, listen to the council too, but I'm not the right person to ask how to be used other than for, you know, black space. And I've heard other... department head say we need another space like we have the multi-purpose room upstairs so it would be a multi-purpose function mm-hmm

One of the things we've been able to do with a lot of these facilities, in fact, maybe we can go back to the plan of, let's see, is that going to change? That's this one. Oh, this one, sorry. OK. Let me just go back to this plan for the sanctuary. One of the things that we have, this is obviously larger than what you guys have. They have very heavy participation in person. at their meeting. to a meeting, so they deal with that. But the point that we looked at here, again, is creating a flexible space. As you say, it can be set up for council. Normal council meetings probably use this area here, although they do leave it open because of the great views going out of the windows. But the other is to be able to close off the actual council dais and protect it, and then the rest of this is a functioning community room for other kinds of events. If you follow St. George, since they've opened this building on social media at all, they have all sorts of awards and presentations and recognition of different people. It always seems to be in this space here. That's what the background is. They use that for all these kinds of... awards and recognitions. But then, as I say, then you've got off of that right behind is the council workroom. They are also a council that meets before their meetings, typically, and then goes into the council chambers. So they have a pre-meeting. Oftentimes it includes dinner, too. And I don't know if you're into that mode or if you want to get into that mode. So that flows that they would be back into this area. And food is often brought in. Then they flow into this area here. This is set up with also a catering kitchen with outside access so that for events, other kinds of catering events, they can cater and have food in this area for other kinds of events too. You see what the object is with some of these that we deal with now and most of them that 10, 15 years or more, is flexibility. Can you have, yes, you can have a very formal council meeting, but yes, can you have a open house? Can you have a work session? Can you come another, can your planning have a, maybe you need to have a neighborhood council meeting in here or something like that? Can that house that sort of thing? That's really the usage that we, and so the question I'm going to ask you is, is that the kind of flexibility you want? So I have to ask that. Go ahead.

You know, what Chris just said about maybe we're definitely not the only body you should ask that question of, right? We know this room is used for other purposes, maybe not as often as you would ideally like to see as an architect, right? But we do employee trainings in here. We have different events. We'll have school groups come in and use this room. The message that I want to make sure you understand from me is that I want to put a lot of emphasis in designing to the budget. So when you ask me unlimited questions, it worries me a little bit. I don't want to give you feedback that is going to create a $3 million remodel instead of a $1 million remodel, right? But I'll circle back to what you said. Yes, we do have a multipurpose room that gets a lot of use. On occasion, it'll be double booked, so people will use this as the second room. We do have the overflow room back behind you, too. Just open the panels and you have a larger room. That... We've got over the years many, many, many different uses out of that room. Right now we're kind of just using it for council dinners before our council meetings, but the conference room behind us used to be used for that at one time too. That might be the room that gets the least amount of use is the council meeting room behind us. Size, yes, I have been to some of these. I wouldn't want to have seating much less than what we've got. I would say opening up the rear panels for more seating maybe happens on average once a year, maybe twice a year, where we've got an issue that comes up or a meeting that's scheduled where we're expecting – you know more than 100 people. But it is pretty, pretty rare. But on the other hand, if we're – this is a question I would have for you guys. In terms of designing the amount of seating, While we definitely have more seating than we need for a typical city council meeting, but it also gives people the opportunity to spread out, right? And so I'm hoping we're not designing for 30 people. We don't want to put people in here like sardines. When we were at the West Jordan, I looked at it and I thought, oh my gosh, this is way too small for us. I was just in the... in the overflow room thinking this is about the size of the West Jordan Council Chambers, maybe a little bit narrower. I think we're used to spreading out a little bit and so we would want that. Can I address, although you didn't ask, you asked the question about multiple uses. This general layout, the question of stadium seating versus race. That's what I was just going to push you to. Do you want to lead into that? Do you want to talk about pros and cons before we give you feedback on that? I'm very interested in that subject.

Well, I will tell you this. Go ahead. You want to add to that?

Yeah, I want to make sure we sort of, everyone gets a chance to answer that first question about is flexibility a priority to you? And then can we go to that? That's great. Okay. Mr. Sousa.

I would say that flexibility is really important. I think, you know, these chambers haven't been remodeled. Have they ever been remodeled? No, they've just been built and they've existed. And so this might be the one opportunity that we have to create the experience for another generation. Um, and I wanna make sure that we do it right, um, considering our budget. Um, and, and I, I really appreciate thoughtful design and when I'm, you know, listening and looking at all of the, the different design options for the spaces and the needs and the uses, you know, I think, I think it has been pretty thoughtful in con in, um, uh, terms of safety and uses and, um, public versus. Um, employee, um, access. And so, you know, I really appreciate, uh, appreciate that thoughtful design. Uh, I would say that flexibility is really important to be able to kind of future proof, um, considering all of the different uses that these spaces or spaces that we use or, um, other aspects of our council, um, work uses in other parts of the building trying to figure out how we can incorporate all of those uses in this space that we have I think would be my main goal and so we do have you know there is a multi-purpose room for the entire city and all of the departments and trainings and whatnot on the third floor we do need that is kind of a multi-purpose room that never gets used except for one purpose and a lot of that I think is Set up and takedown is hard because it's there. It's just an open room and it hasn't really considered potential uses in those spaces So for example, I think we went to Murray City Hall to I tour toward Murray's and mid West Jordan's more specifically and Like Murray had An area was that Murray? Yeah in their work overflow area that had a bank of cabinetry where they had, you could do food set up too, is kind of what I'm saying. And so there was opportunities for chairs and tables and food set up. But at the same time, it just had a countertop that had access. And so those types of multipurpose uses, I think, would be really important in the design. And if that's all we're talking about right now, I'll leave it there.

I think a lot of it it does deciding because it does bleed into that stadium seating versus raise the Deus component to it you know what the flexibility because if we kept it like this then our flexibility is limited to fixed seating I I like the idea of having I really do like that idea of having flexibility. But if it's dependent on, we have a budget here, and if it's dependent on, well, you've just used 40% of your budget to try to make this into flexible space because we had to level out the floor then be like nope we're good let's let's stick with this so I mean it is a lot of it I think is you know dependent upon the budget and what we're looking at you know we we use this that as a city we use this for a variety of things you know for quite a while for you know fire department would come in and use it for emergency management meetings police department has used it for community meetings that are larger where it's more accessible We've had you know various resident groups. We've got the Planning Commission that uses this on a regular basis a lot of different reasons and for the most part I Can't say that this at the flexibility it has worked You know, there are some issues because you can't you you can't bring in tables and have that type of flexibility to it. So I do think it comes to that dollar amount of what's kind of your next question to it. But flexibility is never a bad thing. So that's a dollar amount.

So I'll share my thoughts as well to share what I've not yet heard so that you kind of know what I would add upon. Yes to flexibility. What I've not yet heard is the flexibility I would say we've not considered that I want to make sure we consider is the ability for the council to do work sessions here. I very much prioritize the ability to sit elbow to elbow and sit around the table. Right now we've tried it in the back and when I in my first term we did a couple back there and it just was very awkward and difficult for a couple of reasons. Difficult for the public to to sort of sit around and watch and difficult for the voice recording the video like to to to provide the online experience that I think is really critical. So as we prioritize flexibility that's part of it that's important to me is a workshop setting that works. I don't want to go up to the third floor. I want us and so based on some of the things you've shown us that is possible with flexible use. But I also want us to prioritize the experience of residents and whether it's a virtual experience or an in-person experience. So I want the audio visual experience to come into play as we are thinking about flexibility and making sure that no matter Where in the space we choose to operate as a council, we have the ability for the public to be involved and feel that they are seeing and hearing things and not shortcut that experience if we end up, for example, moving back there. So yes to flexibility, but those are the additional things I would layer on top in terms of what I'm looking for. And I think you've heard it already, but budget is obvious. We need to... Do all of that, and then I'm a big fan of what would you, like, come back to us with, here's what we've heard from you, here's your budget, what would you have us prioritize?

Excuse me one second, Madam Chair. Please. Council Member DeKaiser has his hand up. Oh, I did not see it.

Thank you. Great. Perfect. We'll have, will you let him come off mute?

Mr. DeKaiser? Thank you, Madam Chair. Just for my two cents, flexibility is important. I've liked what I've seen in the designs about a divider and modular seating I think would be good. But I also just wanted to echo what the Chair said with regards to being able to work around a table. So as I've looked into designs, there's chambers with more of a circular or a horseshoe type dais. I think that would get to what the chair is speaking of. But yes, the flexibility. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. DeKaiser. So we've heard from everyone. So then did you want to just kind of naturally pivot into the stadium?

Let me mention one item here. We're obviously very early in the process. So for us to say, yes, we can afford this or not afford that, we're not quite to the stage where we can accurately say that. Although I think that the potentially leveling of the space has always been a kind of consideration that we don't – we're hoping that that's not going to blow the budget. Because we – one of the things that I will tell you is this, that as we work with the council chamber, we try to work with the balance between, yes, there's a certain formality that you're trying to have and to create a core – that type of – setting, that formal setting to deal with that. You want to have a certain level of that, but on the other hand, you don't want to be so removed and so unapproachable that it's not inviting, that you aren't working with dialogue there. These designs we try to deal with, and that is a height, it's how curved it is, and how the design of it, all of those things factor into play with that. As I say, I think what I'm hearing right now is The leveling the floor, getting rid of the stadium-type seating is probably one of the first things we're going to look at. We really are to try to deal with the flexible seating there. We hope that that could really solve a lot of those things. Each of these facilities that you looked at is set up so that you can deal with those work settings, work sessions. If it's a small work session, it may be in your council conference room. If it's a larger work session, We try to accommodate that out in the space. And that's one of the reasons that those divider curtains or those divider walls are used is so that you can set that up that way. And the audio-visual goes right along with that so that however you're organizing that space, the audio-visual works with that. So I think those are probably the biggest thing. We've heard some comments about capacity. What is a typical kind of capacity that you want to make sure the main room seats? But that once or twice a year, if you have to expand out, open some doors and expand out through there. That's probably – that's the goal that we're after. So as we look at that capacity – so that's in the right sizing and the design of it there. The – maybe to talk just a little bit about the council suite behind to – well, go ahead.

Yeah, I was going to just – if you could pause right there.

Yeah, we have a question from the council.

I didn't get to speak to capacity. Yes, go ahead. This is about the typical crowd that we see, and there are, what, 10, 15 people here? So I would generally say that we could reduce the amount of seating and still be fine. And I think it's critical that we are on the same level of the people. Being up here, it's intimidating and menacing and scary to people. I don't want it to be a bad experience when they come here. We need to be right with the people. So even making the chambers and dais, smaller would still work, and I think it would give us a – give residents a really good feeling of they're in this with us. So just some thoughts on that.

Any other thoughts on capacity? That's sort of the next bullet point, so we might as well just explore. Unless – like, I don't want to preempt anything.

No, you're great.

Go ahead. think we need to make sure that the capacity is we're also considering the other uses for it so that's a you know Planning Commission what their capacity looks like or when we have other meetings or presentations in here you know and that does fluctuate a little bit I would just say similar to council member Nichols that

This room has roughly 130 seats and it's very rarely is it full. I think that in all of the years previous to even being on the council and being a member of the public in here, there was maybe one year It was a tax truth and taxation meeting where people were lined up and the back had to be open. So I Think that there there is room for capacity. Nobody sits. We almost nobody sits in those front seats It's almost too close to the podium and I think it's kind of uncomfortable or you can't have a visual, you know You can't see and so I do think that there's room to reduce the capacity maybe in the main area chambers use, but again, considering multiple uses, having maybe opportunity for partitions to open and additional seating to exist easily when there are other uses or we are expecting a larger crowd given the agenda or what maybe the planning commission experienced in their meeting the previous week or whatnot. So yeah, capacity can, in my opinion, can be reduced on a regular basis.

I would share one of my favorite uses of some of the buildings in our in our city are when we hold open houses which are not sit down and listen to us talk. They are you know the walls all around the outside we have posters and and They walk to the posters. They learn about different things. They share their input. They ask questions. We get to interact with them. And so in terms of capacity, I would hope that this becomes the space that we are able to host those and have – and I also recognize that there's value in doing those things. kinds of open houses in various ways but there is something also really need of inviting it to be in city hall you know at the city center so that would be the piece of capacity I would ask that we consider is yes I think we could hold meetings with fewer seats but I don't know that I want to shrink the physical space as much as just keeping in mind that standing and conversing and space for. So another example, this was actually, I think, I can't remember if this was before or after COVID, but we did some open houses where we did workshops with residents. So we wanted the space set up with round tables and they had protocols and yeah and they move from table to table and so that's another way I'd really love to use this space is so that there's the stands and poster type conversations but then there's the tabletop conversations and creating and ideating and so that's the capacity I want to make sure we can accommodate is flexible space, back to what we said first, but also true, true problem solving, brainstorming, collaborating, feedback gathering, which needs to take all kinds of forms. So I want the space to have the capacity to do that comfortably here.

No, you've nailed it, right? Exactly what we wanted to. That's what we thought we were hearing. That's what we think we want to suggest to you and we want to propose to you. And so it's great to have you reinforce that. We're right in line. Yes, agreed. With what we're trying to do there. And so it is.

And we have, sorry, before you move to the next bullet, if we could, Mr. DeKaiser wants to weigh in on that. Mr. DeKaiser?

Thank you, Madam Chair. Just in terms of capacity, one thing that I would like to see is a larger like presentation style lectern, oftentimes we have a group of people presenting to the council, maybe three or four people. And in my mind, it's a little bit awkward as they get up from the chairs and come to the podium and sit down and stuff like that. So it'd be nice if the presenters were fully accommodated when they come to council meetings. OK. Good.

That's good. Thank you, Mr. DeKeyser.

Yeah, that's wonderful.

Council, any other thoughts on capacity?

Yes. So I may end up coming back and filling in some of the gaps when we wrap up. But in terms of capacity, I see here I forgot the visual participation. And we do have quite a bit of visual, virtual participation. We do have quite a bit of virtual participation. I mean, as you can see, our council member is joining virtually. And that is a frequent thing that one of us may need to do, as well as the public, having the public have access to our meetings virtually through Zoom is important. And so making sure that that virtual experience is well thought out and considered. So I feel like we've probably patched it together as that technology has come into play. But it's not optimized, per se. We've just done what we could to make it work. I've been to, like I said, the West Jordan City Hall and the Murray. I liked the council conference workroom at West Jordan. I liked that they had seating around. I liked that it was optimized for virtual. I liked that they would pump the video feed from that room into the main chambers for overflow if there were more residents that attended than they had seating for in that room. I personally like the idea of having a less formal option to have some of those discussions, even around a dais, even if it's lowered or whatnot. has a more formal presence than sitting around a conference table having conversations. And we would do that for a purpose. And so I don't want to eliminate that purpose. So just from a capacity standpoint, being able to mix even in-person, the virtual and in-person at the same time, I think is an interesting idea for capacity that I wanted to point out.

Yeah, absolutely. That's an item that's on our list as well and part of our initial conversations with your council leadership is that we do want to create a balance. It doesn't make sense to have 50 empty chairs and have 50 people on the line and try to think of where we can create those opportunities that makes it more affordable for the project. I wanted to hit on what I know we're running up a little bit more past 6 o'clock hour. I do want to talk a little bit about this, the layout of the dais. In the examples that we showed you, there was multiple versions. One was similar to this in the example of St. George where Councils, first and foremost, in front, same with Planning Commission in that session, and then staff and administration flares off on either end. Exactly how you're set up now. Some of the other opportunities, West Jordan, Bluffdale, and, well, those are only the two examples that we showed you. have staff and administration perpendicular to the dais. So instead of the continuation of the circular visual perspective, that gives an opportunity for staff to then either have a better cross communication or coordination, but also a visible connection. So for instance, if Ms. Edwards needs to have connection with Council Member Nickel, instead of doing the complete turn to the side, you have the opportunity to just have a change and turn of the head and have that visual connectivity. That's a different example. And so you witness that at West Jordan as well. Theirs is much longer. There's a lot more staff that they invite to participate in council sessions. That's something else that we want to balance and ask the question, is administration and or council expected to increase that capacity moving into the future or do we want to have more in mind that we're creating flexibility and maybe a different blended approach to bring those side aspects and participation in a different arrangement. So that's also part of our exploration with this body as well.

Nicole? The visual appeal of a U-shaped dais, it looks good when you're looking here. But I would be hesitant to say that I want squares rather than a circle here because I like to look at people. when they're speaking and I get to see the council members and I get to, yeah, across. And this isn't awkward to me to have, you know, if we needed to pass something along. We could make it the day smaller, but for me, I don't know anybody else's perspective. I really like to look at people when they're talking.

I think typically what we're talking, what he's talking about here is it's a combination of both. I mean, still, there's still, yeah, you can go to the

Let's go to this example. So this gives you an idea. This is out of Bluffdale. So the two side arrangements, podium and the centroid, there allows recorder and City manager city attorney the city engineer community economic development to also then participate That is that is the reference in creating that connectivity In a different geometric layout In the bountiful I believe West Jordan has a similar a similar layout as well. It is their separation between the main dais and the adjacent sides.

I was just looking at that. Those weren't attached too nice. Does that make it more flexible when moving? Can those, the two on the side, be movable? Or can you move them farther?

We have done that on somebody spinning on their sides. I don't believe those are at West Jordan.

In this instance, these are fixed.

Yeah, they are fixed. But we have done that where they are movable and can be kind of all squished back there and then curtain closed off.

Or like if we did want to have a tabletop and we could face those this way. to kind of bring that experience?

There are some opportunities like that. We did that at North Ogden. That facility is first and foremost their public safety space, but it also serves for their municipal core. In addition, through design, there was instruction that they wanted to transition to also include council space. pushed us back a few weeks and months, and we had to retool and rethink a couple elements to accommodate all, meaning training, public sessions, court, and council. The decision there to house an administrative staff and or department heads was to just utilize movable tables. So ahead of those sessions, they would bring those tables out, set up the monitors. That seems to be acceptable for them and work for them, quite frankly. Not saying that that is something we want to incorporate here, but to the point of creating flexibility, that is a way to do that.

So let me reintroduce myself. I am the tightwad of the council.

That's right.

For me, it's easy to make decisions about, is it worth the taxpayer expense? I'm sorry, I'm just so rooted in that. For me to be able to turn only 30 degrees to see a council member instead of 45 degrees, I'm not going to spend a penny on that, right? So I would keep this dais. I wouldn't replace it at all. I would keep it. You know, and I'll just... What we haven't gotten to yet, here's what I'm thinking about in the hierarchy of where we should be spending, what is sounding more and more like a tight budget at a million dollars, right? I mean, you said a minute ago that it's going to be hard to even level the floor for that and get – No, I don't – I think – Okay, okay.

Yeah, I don't think that's out of the question. I'm saying that's one of the first – Well, then we won't break the budget in doing that.

We won't break the budget.

Yeah, we don't think we're going to break the budget with that.

So security is what we haven't gotten to yet. I sat at that seat for the last few years and always thought I'm never getting out of here if something terrible happens, right? So I always told Council Member Stroud she was my human shield and that was my plan. But so I think we do need to spend money on things like that, the unthinkable, right? The unthinkable, but it is not in the state of politics today isn't to be completely unexpected. Can I just add one more thing on the stadium seating? I do understand the flexibility issue. I get that. I've also sat in those rooms, and I didn't like being part of the – I didn't like sitting there. You couldn't get the eye contact that we get to get with – I can get eye contact with everybody in the room. The chairs aren't ever as comfortable. They're either foldable or stackable chairs. We have six hour meetings, you guys, sometimes. That is not out of the ordinary. So the seats aren't anywhere near as comfortable. Often they don't have arms. And you're not separated from the stranger next to you if you don't have arms. I noticed in your pictures some of those chairs have arms and some of them do not. I think those may sound like little things that are big things. It's like sitting next to somebody, a stranger on an airplane. You're always going to put that armrest down, right? It's just it doesn't. separate you from the person, it just provides a separation, right? So I actually do like the stadium seating, but I do understand the flexibility issue too. I think it would be interesting to ask, like our city manager, as a separate conversation, What does he think if we did design if we spent the money to flatten the floor? What does he think the increased use might be of this room and would it be worth the expense right to me? It's I mean we could come up with all kinds of things that are nice to haves but at this budget it may be a need to have a And we may even need to prioritize within that, right? So I've always gotten the impression that I'm outvoted on the whole flatten the floor thing. I have been to plenty of council chambers that had the flat floor and I didn't like them as well. But that's just me and as a participant sitting in the audience, right? You do often have to look around the person that's in front of you to be able to see unless the dais is tall enough or you're looking at something projected even higher up on the wall, right? So there become visibility issues, but in both directions. I like to be able to make eye contact with everybody in the audience as well. So I think I'm going to lose that if we flatten that floor too. So just pointing out the opposite side. I can count the votes in my head, and I'm outvoted on that. But I just kind of wanted to point out what I had observed about the benefits to the stadium-style seating, which you're telling me is just, like, old. Like, that's just old, like, 90s stuff, right?

Well, maybe to just zero in on one little comment and emphasis that you're making is... The money that is spent is spent for the purpose of making the space more used and more often used for more functions. And that's where the payback comes from that money. It's not just the nice-to-haves. It's the, hey, does this get used by more people, more groups? Does it function better? Is it a better experience? That's when the money is well spent.

Thank you for that. Councilwoman D'Souza.

Yeah, thank you. Okay, so talking about the different shapes of the dais for the council and then the staff, I actually really liked West Jordan's. I kind of liked that there was a break or a separation between the main dais for the council members and then staff. I liked that it also offered another way exit or entry point so like for example you know Chris Edwards that's where she sits right now she does a lot of helping out and passing us stuff but it has to get gets past here to here to here to all the way down and you know for her to get out and walk out it would be more disruptive to go all the way around you know what I mean and so I think that there are efficiencies that could be created with a slightly different layout that way I mean even for Like if I'm sitting over here or administrative staff is sitting there and we need to get into the back area, everybody's walking around. If I have to exit for a moment before we have a break for whatever reason, people's bags are here and you're tripping over them. Or somebody steps out and you're trying to walk behind and there's a bag. And so some of those things I think could be improved with maybe a different layout or different space. I am not a fan of the stadium seating. I can see the benefit of being able to make eye contact and having everybody have a good visual to the council and what's going on, but I think that could be also mitigated with a raised area for us. I think for me it would be more important to have multiple use. I also have seen somebody try to access in a manual wheelchair and the slope of the floor makes it a little bit dangerous and so I feel like there are accessibility issues with this current layout. I'm just going to say, even the chairs, maybe you haven't thought this. So you sit here and you have a bag or a purse and it goes on the floor and then you've got people that are trying to enter and exit and you have to keep moving your stuff and you can't put it in the seat next to you because it falls through the crack because the seats are up versus sitting on a chair. So anyway, my point is that there are That happens to me when I go places like that. Personal experience. Anyway, I think that there are pros and cons for a lot of various layouts. But again, I think that you can oftentimes save money by having things pull double duty. One thing can do three things. And that's personally where I'd like to see money spent and prioritized. and accessibility and not just from a security standpoint but also from a security standpoint. From a functional workflow and being able to have access to things and staff and handouts and whatnot and blocking everybody in and having everybody have to walk around and up and down. Oftentimes we're coming down to take photos with people that have come in for different awards and it depends on are you going this way or are you going this way and if you look around it's a long way around and then in It gets kind of clunky and awkward, and there's some traffic jams. And so being thoughtful about those uses, too, I think would be important. I've often joked about having a Costco door back here for security. If you had to crawl on your hands and knees, you could get out of here. I don't know that that's necessarily practical, but thinking of security in those ways I think is important, and being that we only have one access. Are you making fun of me? I'm just kidding. My Costco door. I love it. But making sure that there's appropriate egress for staff as well. I mean, sitting over here, there's not a whole lot of Private places that anybody can go and again, there's a traffic jam to get back there So those are kind of my my big initial comments and I'll probably wrap up at the end I Mean we kind of seem to be

moving past just this general layout. So I'll give a little bit of input to it, and then we can look at it. Because I do have a question about this. Anyway, so safety, and that's a priority. That's just looking ingress, egress, if there was a fire, if there was some other emergency, and from multiple perspectives. So from that of people that are in the audience, from people that are back up here on this side, just all of that, whether it's north or south what that might look like the tech component so virtual but then also the physical you know that's we have right now because this is too small for the amount of administrative staff that we have from the council office we have to have somebody that's sitting in the back yes so a couple people that are sitting in the back so you know looking at it even that Kind of components to it. I you know the you know, if you look when people are watching online The the tech updates and I don't know if that's because it's camera placement if it's the type of types of cameras we have but there are other council meetings where You know, they're they're not like this big on the screen, you know a thumbnail on the screen so having that but you know our tech is over here and there so if there is a tech issue and then we need to have, you know, council staff needs to be able to get up and they go all the way around and then they have to deal with something on, there's a board here, or, you know, maybe there's something back in the server room. So having that a little more streamlined I think would be helpful. The ADA access, you know, once again, that's, you know, I know we have the, you know, the hearing, you know, that's in there, but the tech component is, for the ADA access, but also the physical part of it. So, you know, where does somebody, if they are in a wheelchair, where are they seated that is not interfering with, you know, if there was a fire exit, you know, if they could get out quickly. You know, that's, could they be at a different spot? Then... So the layouts, you know, which I think we can get down to at some points of looking saying we're not I don't think we're just talking about You know with a million dollars just talking about this but also offices So we have three council offices and we have currently four Staff members so looking you know, well, what does that look like and And then it brings into, well, if we're making more office space here and bringing it up, then we're eliminating this room. What does that look like here? So even just the physical layout of, are we moving chambers? But then if the floor is not level or if it's not up even a little bit more, what does that look like where we have those components? Because we have office space. We have something where it could be more of a meeting, a large table, whether that's you know, more of a forum or closed session looking at that. And then kind of the last major thing that I have, and it's not even, it could just be like, is to make this more of a focal point. You know, where we are. We have, this is our main entry to City Hall. We have two of them, but this is the main entrance. And you walk up here, And we're seeing, OK, so it's glass right there, but you're looking at, but what can we do to make it? And that's more of the makeup after, the blush, the eye shadow and blush after. But how could this be inviting and warm, welcoming, all the time and not just when it's in use. So, you know, that's kind of jumping all over, but I'll throw it.

And I think what we'll, obviously we're going to be back to you with some ideas and things like that. And I think this has gotten us going. It's got us on a good start that we can do that and hopefully head in a direction that's close to some of your comments and ideas. and come up with some good ideas. And I think that's really where we're at, is that we need to sit down and put together some ideas for you.

We'll look forward to that. I'll just sort of close on the security and flow. I'm just going to second everything Councilwoman D'Souza says. So if you were taking notes on what she said, I really like a lot of what she said. And the one thing you've got here, but I want to draw attention to it, As we are thinking about office space, to Councilwoman Stroud's point, and as you were reimagining all of this, and we are thinking about staff, I think security for them, and I know it's a bullet point here, but I want to emphasize it verbally, is a lot of the public will come. to staff, and there is no protection for that right now in the back. And so I want to make sure we are thinking about, of course, we've already talked about egress and safety in this chamber, but I want to make sure we're thinking security and safety for staff who's wherever those office spaces, whatever those look like. Good. Please, Ms. Nichol.

Just one other comment that I have written down is that we are woefully under square footage in the back offices. Our staff needs more space. And if we could squeeze in a dedicated workspace for a council member, that would be great, but it's not necessary. Okay. But we need more square footage for our people in the back of the house. I'm sure you've gone back there, but maybe you will. Yeah.

No, that's right.

Does that meet your objectives for tonight? Did you get what you needed?

I have taken a lot of notes.

And our meetings are recorded in case you want to go back.

And I'll close in saying this is exactly what we expected. We wanted the feedback. We wanted to get you thinking. It's not always easy to get everybody into the right mindset and right mode and talk about things, but it was wonderful to listen to all of you bounce the ideas, reconsider, consider something new, and yeah, got a lot of notes. So just a couple of things in additional closing is To Jim's point, we are at the start of this process. We know it's going to take some time. It's going to take some ideas. It's going to take us getting more feedback from you based upon us presenting those ideas, dive into security, dive into a little bit more about what the budget can handle versus these expectations and prioritizing the goals. And that's really what I wanted to get to today was understanding from this body's envision of goals for this project. We have a certain set from staff that provided us with goals and administration, but it is founded and rooted in a collective process that we have everybody participate and give feedback. So thank you all for your time and appreciate it very much. Any other questions for us?

Great feedback. Appreciate it.

Sorry, I'm just checking. I remember that you had said something you were going to have a wrap-up. You're good? You're good? Okay. Okay. Sorry. I did not want to overlook someone. Thank you both for your time tonight. We look forward to hearing what you come back with.

Yes. Thank you.

Yes. So that concludes session number or item number one. I am going to go ahead and move us to public comment because we are past our 6 o'clock mark. So far I only have one blue card. So if anyone in the chambers is hoping to speak to us, do invite you to go ahead and fill out the blue card. But I am not seeing this individual. Did he step out? Henry? Oh, I see him out there. Maybe he's already gotten his question answered. No. We are ready for you. So the one blue card I have, again, Mr. Henry Butters. And then we will hear. I'll check the room, see if there's anyone else. And then those who are online, be prepared. We will move to you next.

Hey, thank you. Hey, I was just talking to the police chief about this. Can you hold the mic? Yes, thank you. There you go. Can you hear me now? Yes. Sorry. I was just talking to the police chief about this. The cars that are still parking down there with no license plates, why don't we try to come up with a city ordinance for no license plates on cars? Because they're parking down there with no license plates. That's like me driving down the road with a semi-trailer with no license plate on it, and I get a ticket for it. You see what I mean? Another thing is what I brought up about the mayor last time. I still haven't heard nothing from the mayor's office on that, Martin, and I'll let you decide that. But that's the only thing I want to bring to your guys' attention. What can we do on the cars that don't have license plates? Is there a way we can bring up a code or something like we're doing with the truck parking and stuff? That's all I'm asking. Thank you, guys.

Have a good week. Thank you. We appreciate your time. All right. I'm looking for anyone else in the chambers. I don't see anyone. So... I was going to say Mr. Fratto, not Mr. Fratto, Mr. Sorensen. Would you look for people, individuals online who'd like to speak? Thank you.

Certainly. If you're participating on our Zoom meeting and would like to make a comment for general citizen comment, please use the raise hand feature. I will call on you and you will have three minutes to make your comment. I don't see any hands.

Nor do I. Thank you for that. So I'll go ahead and close public comment. I'm going to move us to item number two. This is a council voting item. So we will again take public comment but on this specific item. We'll turn it over to Councilman D'Souza for her second reading.

Thank you madam chair and thank you counsel for having the discussion with me last week when I brought this forward as an introduction From that I have made a couple of changes relatively minor considering, you know the the full ordinance and that was to reduce the amount of significant parcel from 250 as it was introduced down to 200,000 from Councilmember suggestion and and it seemed like I had Councilmember support for that and then I had just updated that section h1 to read what I had corrected in the email that I had sent I did want to say that I noticed here in the staff report staff went and and very helpful defined what subsection h1 was but It should say 200 instead of 250. That was the language prior to the change. It is correct in the red line of the ordinance. It's just listed incorrectly on that staff report. And so those are the only changes that were made. Do I have any questions that I can answer?

I'm not seeing any questions over here. I don't have any either. So with that, do you want to take public comment? Okay. So we're going to take public comment. Again, I do not have any blue cards on this item. I'm scanning the room, and I do not see anyone flagging me down. So let's go ahead and go to virtual, Mr. Sorensen, and see if we have any public comment on this item.

Once again, if you're participating on our Zoom meeting and would like to comment on item number two, please use the raise hand feature. And I will call on you. And you have three minutes to make your comment. I don't see any raised hands.

There we go. I will close public comment and bring it back to the council please Mr. Sousa.

Motion to approve ordinance 2653.

Second. I have a motion and a second. Any discussion on the motion? Seeing none we'll go ahead and do a roll call vote please.

Ms. Nichol. Yes. Ms. D'Souza? Yes. Mr. DeKaiser?

Yes.

Ms. Stroud?

Yes.

Ms. Hausman? Yes. Ms. Sharkey? Yes. Madam Chair, that motion carried six to zero.

Thank you for that. And Mr. DeKaiser, I didn't think you had a comment. So I'm sorry if I missed a hand. But I know we just took the vote. I didn't. Thank you. You're good? OK. Thank you for that. So that actually completes our items for this evening. Oh, look at us, everyone. We're going to be done by 7 o'clock. So with that, I'm going to move us to standing reports. And I'll ask council staff to begin with that. And then we'll come around the council.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Just first off, just wanted to thank you guys for your patience. We are a little short staffed tonight. And I hope you enjoyed the shorter agenda. Next week's agenda, unfortunately, is a little bit larger. We will have a presentation from the folks at the MVP shelter. We will have a discussion on some information coming for the new rec center in regards to membership rates, fees, and the fiscal outlook. We will also have an update on the Crescent Middle School property. so it should be a substantial agenda next week and then madam chair just a reminder the Recreation Center report that's on the agenda tonight was put on erroneously and so we'll have that again starting next week We'll move around to council thank you for that update mr. Sorensen miss Nichols.

I just wanted to make citizens aware. I'm getting a lot of questions with regards to Crescent and just parks in general. And I was looking at the website and there was a study done for Alt Canyon that has some really valuable input just on parks and a lot of different data. We also did a parks master plan in 2024 that I wanted to point council back to because it really gives a lot of more in-depth information about the parks that we have, the way we utilize them, and what people were thinking just two years ago with regards to more park space. So that's it.

Ms. Sharkey.

Just a couple of things. The League of Cities and Towns has been putting on some awfully good webinars. I took one regarding... DADU's external accessory dwelling units that I think is still up there online for people to watch gives some really good examples of best practices and what some cities have already implemented and they seem a little bit different than the ones that we kind of went over a little bit provocative new ideas to think about. So just kind of wanted to point out those as a resource if anyone has any extra time And it just feels like watching technical presentations by the League of Cities and Towns. Also, my thanks to my fellow council members and to Chris Edwards, who helped host another very good night at the RSL suite. It was a Royals game. Chris, you were right, not nearly the turnout in the stands as an RSL game. I think we had as many people in our suite as were in the stands. We had a full suite. We had a very full suite of great people. We had people from the Larry H. Miller Corporation. The DEET lines came from Hale Center Theater. We had the HOA ombudsman's office there, state legislator. I could go on and on. A lot of great guests in the suite. And so I appreciate the effort that went into both planning it and executing it with the council. Thank you.

Thank you. And I wrote down to make sure I mentioned the Sandy Club carnival but I don't want to take that if that is somebody else is going to talk about it. Was that OK. I was like I was trying to remember who's the. So we were reminded Shalom Orton sent an email out to all of us and of course this is open to all who would like to support the Sandy Club but they are holding their carnival Thursday July 30th from 530 to 8 p.m. Did I miss anything. Okay. That's all I had.

So, Councilman Stroud. Thank you, Madam Chair. And at the Carnival, the Youth Council will be there helping as they have the past couple of years. So, getting another volunteer opportunity in. You know, in the past, like, week and a half, because there was a little bit from last week. But anyway, so Smoke Taco, which is down by Shields, they had a ribbon cutting and... very very appealing and appetizing so if you have a chance go down by go down to shields and I don't think we mentioned last week I'm not sure I know that we're a couple of us that were up there for the Bell Canyon the grand opening with the playground you know a beautiful playground that's up there a couple things that are different but it is It's geared for kids 2 to 5 and then you've got a 5 to 8 and then an 8 and up section with an extra wide slide. They talked about having the ribs in it that help keep it with the strength to it, the soft turf. so that if the kid falls, it's actually rated at eight feet. So they could fall from eight feet and it would be a little more cushiony. Long gone are the pea gravel and the wood chips of the past. But a great ribbon cutting up there as well to update that playground that was definitely aging. I did want to do a couple of administrative thank yous to Ryan Komp for working on, in one of the county areas that will become sandy they had a question about a sidewalk issue that the county is that that will be installing and they had some concerns with that and Ryan was able to get on and to resolve those you know knowing that that will become Sandy's sidewalk in a year So, you know spent just a little bit of time with that and there's a great group that I was able to meet with after the first crescent middle school Discussion and then a second, you know, thank you. Mr Jensen, you know for being able to work through so a resident who had an easement Concern, you know something that that dated back 42 years But it sounds like that we've got that working with Mr. Nelson, that wrapped up. So thank you for being able to work on that. The fire department had another badge pinning and promotion ceremony. So we had four promotions and two new hires. And then once again, you know, wonderful, you know, Crescent View Middle School, lots of opportunities to connect with residents. And it also highlighted areas, you know, residents were able to bring up questions, you know, of things that had not been addressed, you know, that we need to do a better job to be able to get all of the information out that residents are asking for, you know, as we come up on an important decision here in the next little bit. So other than that, we're good.

That actually reminds me. Thank you for that. It's more just some additional feedback on Crescent View. And I've shared this with council members, but sort of want to share this perspective with the public as well. I kind of see our process, and Mr. Jensen, I know your update's coming soon, and so correct me if I'm wrong on this, but I kind of see our process as three decisions. Decision one is whether or not we are going to put this on the ballot. That's the decision that's in front of us. And then question number two is, if the council decides this is going to go on the ballot, then how much are we anticipating bonding for and what language we will put? Once we make that decision, then the third decision becomes, to your point, that's why you triggered. You reminded me. That third question becomes what will our education campaign look like? What is the information we are sharing? So I know you're combing through a lot and preparing to come back. I'm just letting you know that with all of the information that is coming in, if we can make sure the public understands the first decision that we are facing is that yes or no decision, go, no, go decision. around whether or not we're putting it on the ballot. So I am gonna be hungry for the information you can share that helps us make that first decision number one. So thank you for that because you reminded me. Councilwoman D'Souza.

Thank you. And just, I'm going to pigtail on that. Anyway. Piggyback. Thank you. Dovetail. I'm going to pigtail on that. All right. So my thought was, yes, putting it on the ballot. But what are we putting on the ballot? That hasn't been decided either. And so I want to make sure that We're we're still clear on the council is gathering information for options for us to consider whether or not we're putting Something on the ballot and if we do what does that look like? So yeah, it's I just it's not just one One item that we're considering and then as far as my councilmember business I had the senior center advisory board meeting this last week and I They wanted me to share their gratitude with the council for the budget amendment that you all helped pass that gave them that little bit of money to build up for being able to handle the needs that they have as they come up. And so they were so, so, so, so, so appreciative. and were very aware of that conversation while it was happening. And I thought I was going to surprise them, but I didn't actually surprise them because they were very well informed and they were very appreciative of the action that we had taken. I just wanted to pass that along. Um, they also talked about, um, they have their upcoming car show this September. It is a huge fundraiser for them. And so they want, you know, anybody and everybody that would like to come that is interested in participating. Uh, it is a really big deal for them and they go all out and they are talking about marketing the different car clubs to get a really good selection. They've talked with the city, I believe, for utilizing the city's marketing channels, the website and whatnot, to advertise for that a little bit larger. They're working with Merle to advertise on the rotating banner outside on the corner. They're really appreciative for that group effort also. The Youth Council is really helpful. They appreciate that help. I know that the Youth Council, there are some members that are going to be helping with some of the takedown for that. One thing that it just reminded me that I wanted to bring up is I believe that they are under the impression that the senior center was not included in this year's Sandy Beautification Day, that that wasn't on the rotation. and in years previous, you know, flowers had been planted, and that didn't happen this year in that same way. And so I just wanted to bring that to the administration's attention and say that if we could be sure that we include that facility in those efforts, that would be great also. Other than that, that's all I had. Thank you. Mr. Jensen?

Oh, oh, oh, Mr. DeKaiser, so sorry.

It's fine. I don't have any business. Thank you.

Okay, thank you. Now Mr. Jason.

Thank you Ms. Hausman. In regards to your comments on Crescent yes we see it very similar to that process. Staff is working at a furious pace to gather information. The request from the council also to provide information to you on the public feedback as soon as possible and not wait for the upcoming council meeting. We're doing that as well. We're hoping to either transmit something to you tomorrow on the public feedback or Thursday at the latest. But gathering all that information, we'll share that as soon as we have that compiled.

Sorry, Mr. Jensen, quick question. When you say you're gathering all that feedback, you're covering the two open houses, the feedback forms that have been filled out through the website. And the survey is the survey survey is ongoing right now.

So as that comes in we won't wait for that to finish before we send that in. But so public comments that we've received through our various channels the online forum feedback the handwritten cards that people also had the opportunity at the open houses. That's what's just been taking a little bit of time. We have some wonderful interns and staff that are helping us categorize all that stuff. We'll provide a summary. We'll also provide the cards to you as well if you want to look at those directly. So we're also have met with the Canyon School District and waiting for some more information from them as well on some of the items that were sent from Dustin trying to get more information. So just an update that we're gathering all this stuff. We are planning on presenting the 28 and then there's also the following council meetings as well in August to discuss this. So we're trying to gather it as quickly as we can and as open and as accurate as we can as well. So.

Yes, Ms. Sharkey.

Just regarding the data that you're ready to provide, one of the questions that's been brought up to me is the demographics. Since the two town halls were held on the property, there's a concern that we're getting an overwhelming amount of feedback from people that live proximate to that location. So will we be provided any kind of demographic information which tells us what we're getting and from where so we can take that into consideration as well?

Yes absolutely. Those that are provided addresses we have put them on a map. Not everybody has but those that we have yes absolutely. Perfect thank you. One other quick item just wanted to make sure the mayor did send an email today about the fireworks ban. We've been working with the league and with the state based upon a recommendation from our fire marshal and our fire chief. We have submitted a request to the state to extend the fire ban to mirror what was done July 4th. We've also been coordinating with our our sister neighboring cities along the east side of the valley and we're working closely with them. Looks like Draper Sandy Cottonwood Heights Harriman a lot of the East Bench cities are proposing a ban. So we're just waiting for the final word from the state forester. But we do anticipate a positive support of that and will continue to look like what was submitted for July 4th That's all I have.

Thank you. Mr. Jensen. I think that's there Mr. Pace nothing from you, right? All right, then I think we have completed our agenda for this evening. I'll take a motion motion to adjourn Second we have a motion a second all in favor. Aye any opposed aye Thank you. We are adjourned. Thanks, everyone.