City Council - Regular Meeting

Madam Chair, we're ready when you're ready.

Thank you. Thank you.

welcome everyone this is the sandy city council meeting of tuesday june 9th 2026. we start all of our meetings with a prayer and a pledge mr pace would you do our prayer for this evening we'd appreciate that be happy to

Our dear Father in heaven, we come before thee this evening. We're grateful for this day. We're grateful for this community, for these elected officials, for their willingness to serve our community. We're grateful for the citizens who live here and for their lives and the way they live. We're grateful for this building to meet in and for the services we are able to provide the public. We pray that thou would please bless us tonight, that the as we consider the budget, that the right decisions will be made for our citizens. And we say this in the name of Jesus Christ, amen.

Thank you. Will everyone please rise for the pledge?

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, and give us hope with liberty and justice for all.

Thank you so much to those who have joined us tonight, both in the chambers and online. Let me describe how things are going to work, especially for people who want to make public comment tonight, which is very much welcomed. There will be three opportunities for public comment. There will be one at 6 PM, which is just general citizen comment. You can step up to the podium and tell the council anything you'd like the council to hear. Then there are two voting items, a public hearing item and a voting item tonight. That's agenda item number five is just a continued public hearing on the budget, which has not yet been adopted and probably won't be for still a couple more weeks. And then item number six is a council voting item. And those are budget amendments that have been brought forward from council members for our further consideration. We will be voting on those, but only voting to move them forward to a final consideration, not for a conclusive decision. There are blue cards in the back of the room. Anyone who would like to make public comment will ask you to fill out one of the blue cards. And if you wouldn't mind, let us know which item you'd like to comment on, whether it be general citizen comment item five or item six on our agenda. General citizen comment will come as close to 6 p.m. as we can fit that one in. Don't be surprised if it comes a little bit later than that. All right. We'll move right into our agenda.

Madam Chair, did you want to do introductions?

Oh, I'm sorry. Let's do introductions.

Thank you, Madam Chair. My name is Dustin Fratto. I'm with the City Council Office. There's one other council staff member in the back of the room, Justin Sorensen, and then the legal counsel, Mr. Cadell, will be here shortly.

Chris Edwards with the Council Office. Chris Nickel, District 3.

Marcy Houseman, District 4. Brooke Christensen, District 1.

Cindy Sharkey, at-large. Allison Stroud, District 2.

Brooke D'Souza, at-large.

Aaron DeKaiser, at-large.

I'm Sandy Mayer, Monica Zoltansky.

I'm Shane Pace, City Administrator.

Lynn Pace, City Attorney.

All right. Okay. Let's now go into agenda item number one, and that is the mayor recommending council advice and consent for appointment of Martin Jensen as our new CAO.

Thank you. Good evening, council. Good evening, Sandy residents. I'm pleased to nominate Martin Jensen to serve as Sandy City's next chief administrative officer. With the impending retirement of CAO Shane Pace, We have a solid succession plan, and it starts with Martin Jensen. So Martin, if you'll please make your way down to the speaker's podium. While I do a quick introduction, cruise on down. Martin brings 27 years of distinguished public service experience to Sandy, with experience at the local, state, and federal level. Throughout his career, Martin has demonstrated exceptional leadership, strategic vision, operational expertise, and a deep commitment to serving the public. Martin's career began service at NASA, where he supported space shuttle missions as a public information officer. He later served as deputy director of strategic communications for the U.S. Forest Service Intermountain region, overseeing communications for 13 national forests across six western states. Martin then dedicated 18 years to service to Salt Lake County, including more than a decade as Director of the County Parks and Recreation Department. In that role, he led the development of major recreational parks, trails, and facilities, and oversaw more than a $300 million budget for public infrastructure investments. During his time with Salt Lake County, Martin built extensive experience working with elected officials, community leaders, that's where we met on the Dimple Dell Trail project, and regional partners to successfully advance major public projects. Those relationship building and public engagement skills have already benefited Sandy City immensely during his two-year tenure with the city, helping secure support and funding for projects representing millions of dollars in community investment, especially our recreation projects, including the new Sandy Recreation Center, where his vision has guided the rebuild, rebranding of the Sandy Recreation Center. For the past two years, Martin has served under Shane Pace as the city's deputy chief administrative officer. He's played a key leadership role in many city initiatives, including the rebuild of the Sandy Recreation Center and the new build of Fire Station 31. He has worked closely with Shane Pace and our leadership team, cabinet, myself, gaining valuable institutional knowledge and firsthand management experience with Sandy City's operations and administration. What stands out most to me and at the core of my nomination is Martin's unwavering commitment to public service and the residents he serves. His determination to tackle difficult challenges and the wisdom that he brings to everyday decision-making is a true asset to our entire city. He's a proven leader who understands our organization, our community, and our shared vision for a successful future for Sandy City. I'm confident that Martin's leadership, experience, determination, and wisdom will continue to serve Sandy City well in the role of Chief Administrative Officers. For these reasons, Council, I respectfully ask for your support and confirmation of Martin Jensen as Sandy City's next Chief Administrative Officer. And Mr. Jensen, I ask you to take a couple minutes and introduce yourself.

Thank you, Mayor. I appreciate the opportunity. Council members, I really appreciate the time that each of you shared with me over the past week and connecting and having some meaningful conversations. I am grateful for this opportunity. I really want to echo that. I'm grateful to Mayor Zoltanski for her nomination, for her trust in me, and moving what Sandy is doing forward. I'm extremely grateful for the two years that I've had to work with Shane Pace. He's been an amazing mentor and a friend. And it's been a wonderful two years. As the mayor said, I'm the weird kid that wanted to work in government my whole life. This is my career. This is what I wanted to do. This is what I went to school to prepare myself for. I understood that communicating what we were doing was very important. And so I started in public relations and got a bachelor's degree in public relations. Had the very fortunate opportunity, as the mayor said, my first job out of Utah State was working on the space shuttle program as a public information officer and attending every space shuttle launch and most of the landings. And I then earned a master's degree while doing that in communications. It was a dream job. It was fun. But our heart and our family were back out west, so we came back west and continued my public service with the Forest Service. Tremendous experience in learning about our public lands and how they're managed and the important resource that they are. Our backyard, these wonderful mountains here in Sandy, are a gem and what provide the water and recreation and so many things for our community. And then quickly, I... had the opportunity after the Forest Service. They wanted to move us around, and we wanted to stay put. So I went to Salt Lake County. And honestly, I thought I'd be at Salt Lake County for two or three years and then jump back into the federal service. And almost two decades later, I found myself looking at an opportunity to come to Sandy, and I jumped at it. Because working at Salt Lake County, I did have the opportunity to work with all 18 cities in the valley intimately. The cities, the unincorporated areas, we had properties, contracts, agreements, issues in every single city. I've presented at every council meeting within the city or within the county. I've been there and presented and represented the county at those times in those meetings. Sandy always stood out to me. Sandy was always a unique place. It was a city that was farther ahead and a cut above than the others. I love the other cities and their great neighbors and partners, but I've always wanted to be here. And when I had the opportunity to come here, talk to the mayor, called Shane, and it was just a great fit. And I'm very grateful for the past two years, because it's prepared me to step into the role and to hit the ground running and to continue to work with each of you in trying to help accomplish your goals, and more importantly, to provide the services that our Sandy residents want and need. It's given me the chance to go and work with each of our departments and learn about our employees and what they do. what they do well, what their challenges are, and most importantly, who they are as well, and build relationships with them. And so I'm grateful once again to the trust in the administration for this nomination, for the opportunity to continue to work with all of our employees for our residents. The tax dollars that we're given, it's a privilege to be able to try and use those and allocate them for the benefit of our residents. And I look forward to working with each of you, and I'm happy to answer any questions that you may have.

Councilmember, questions? Ms. Houseman, go ahead.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you for that. You know, I love that the introduction was about more than what you've done in the two years. I mean, certainly you circled back to that. I think foundational stories are really critical. So I appreciate the time you spent just telling us what drives you and what brings you to the service you do. So you will probably not be surprised by the focus of my question because if you've watched other Advice and Consent, you know where I tend to lean. But I'm going to do it a little differently. It's three questions that start, that all branch off of a single one. So do you want me just to... give you the three and you answer as you go or do you sort of want me to piece it out? How about this? I'll say them all and if you forget one along the way, you just ask me. That's great. Thank you. Okay, sure. So I'd love for you to tell me about a recent leadership book that you have read. Three things specifically I'd like to know. What did you like about the book? What principles from the book have you put into practice? And what impact have your efforts had as you have put those principles into practice?

All right. Let's see if I can remember that. So I do love leadership books. I love learning, reading. There's one that I read probably about a year ago, and it really left a lasting impact on me. It was written by a gentleman named Scott O'Neill. And it's called Be Where Your Feet Are. And maybe the title stood out with me because I've got one good foot right now. I'm working on getting two good feet. We're close, but that's another discussion. Scott, at the time he wrote the book, was the CEO, president of the Philadelphia 76ers basketball organization, currently is a president of Live Golf. But regardless, the principle of the book is, be where your feet are. We all are pulled into lots of different directions. We all wear different hats. You as council members are the classic example. You have other jobs. You have family. You have civic or other duties, maybe church responsibilities and families. There's a lot of things going on in your lives. We're no different. I'm a dad. This job is full time here. My family is super important to me. I serve in my church. I try and be present for my kids, but the principle is Be where your feet are. Don't worry about what's next. Don't worry about where you came from. And it really talks about our phones and putting our phones down. The principle that I've learned is when we are in a meeting, when we're meeting with an individual, whether it's a resident, an employee, a constituent, We owe them our full undivided attention. And so I've tried to practice that. As we're in meetings with the mayor, with staff, with residents, same thing. I'll set my phone down and not even put it on the table. Try and leave it in my pocket. or silence it. At work, it's helped me focus and be able to be more effective. It's had a really positive impact at home, because when I'm there, I need to be there for my wife, for my kids, even for myself. As I'm rehabbing and learning how to walk, I have to focus and put time into that energy and effort so that I can be healthy and whole. And so be where your feet are. Focus on the people that are in front of you and the time that you've been given. I hope I hit all three questions.

Yes, I'm going to ask you to elaborate just a little bit. So I hear clearly what you liked about it and the principle. You mentioned impact. That's the third question. You mentioned impact at home. I'd be curious to know what impact, as you continue to exercise that principle in this new role, what impact might that have I quote this book a lot, the multipliers, the multiplier effect is tapping into the genius of the people around us. So how do you see that principle as you're putting it into practice? What trickle effect might that have around you as you're working to tap into the genius, bring out the best of others? That practice as a leader... be where your feet are, you said. How could that help unlock leadership and potential in others around you?

Well, the trickle effect or the impact that I think it will have, and it does have, as I've seen, is I want to implement it with our staff and our employees here. Do the best you can on what you're working on at that time. Give it your full attention. We're always pulled in different directions. But as residents come in and share concerns with us, as employees we're supervising share concerns, we need to be present there. We need to listen to what they're saying and give them our undivided attention and the effort that they, energy is a better word, the energy that they deserve to take each one of these problems seriously and to hear them out and then it'll have a trickle down effect if you're putting your full effort into it. They're going to, hopefully we're gonna be able to solve some of their problems and hear their concerns.

That's all I have, Madam Chair.

Thank you.

Ms. Nicole.

I've got one for you. So what is your philosophy on how the legislative branch should work with the administrative branch, like communication-wise?

Overall philosophy? It's pretty straightforward. You set broad policy, set policy, and then we as the administrative branch go and execute it. If information or policy is set and there isn't communication back and forth so that we fully understand the intent, of the direction and policy, neither of us are going to be successful. And so communication does need to be open and needs to occur. And that's a big part of the role of the CAO. We're all human, right? And policies are written with good intent. Direction is provided with good intent sometimes to solve a problem. But sometimes there's unintended consequences of policies that you don't see that we will run into as we start implementing it. And so that communication channel has to be open so that we can go back and say, I want to make sure I understand the problem that you're trying to solve by implementing whatever policy. And then as we implement, we can hopefully come back and share back and forth, well, we've done that, but here's an issue, an unintended consequence, or something that we've run into. Can we do it this way and still try and solve the problem that you are trying to achieve? So communication has to happen. And it's something that's been part of my core foundation. I was a communications professional in government you know, well over a decade. And it's something that is very important to me.

Thank you.

Mr. Souza? Thank you. I appreciate the conversation that we had within the last few days. And so I just wanted to kind of follow up with a question that I had about this role. And that would be, and maybe you've already answered it, what do you see as the most challenging part of your role should you be consented to? And how do you anticipate addressing or working through those challenges?

You know, budgets are always a challenging time. I'm coming in right at the end of a budget deliberation. There's lots of pressures and there's only so many resources. So the budget is always a challenge regardless of the year. Even in good budget years, there's always more demand within the city, within our employees, within the services we're trying to provide. That's a constant effort and work that you have to go through. Relationships are always important. And working in this role to be able to facilitate communication between the administration and the council is a key function and role. Shane has been a great example of that. He and I, every morning, pretty much get in here pretty early, sit down, talk about kids, family, what's going on, how my leg feels. And then we dive into the policy of, OK, well, what's going on with tasks that we've been assigned that we're trying to work on, and then what we're hearing from council as far as trying to implement legislative intent and to implement policies, and then trying to provide advice. So we provide advice to the administration. We provide input and feedback to the council, sometimes directly, sometimes indirectly through Dustin. We have differing opinions at times, and that's OK. There's different roles in our government, and we need to realize that. But the challenge is always trying to find a common goal for everyone that we're working on. And so it's an ever-evolving process. The needs and demands of our residents are always changing. But there are always some core fundamental principles that we're always trying to provide for our residents. Public safety, health, a thriving economy, great places for our families to live, work, and play.

Mr. DeKuyser.

Well, congratulations on your nomination. I'm excited. What if you gave us a really good example of one thing you learned in the past few years with us that's helped prepare you for the role?

Well, one thing I've learned. I'm really proud of what we've done with our infrastructure. Station 31 is amazing. That thing, I love driving past it on I-15 and seeing it. One of the things that I've learned, as the mayor said, I worked at the federal level. I worked at the county level for the largest county in the state. Coming to the city level, we can solve problems so much quicker than other levels of government. We really provide services that matter to residents. I've learned that we can be very nimble and address issues. Whether it's a water main break, that's easy. We know what the problem is. We've got to fix it. We've got to stop the water flowing down the street, get it back in there and flowing into homes. If there's other problems or issues, working with the cabinets, every week coming in we have every department head in there and we can throw a problem out And there's cross collaboration. And it happens so quickly. And it's so refreshing to be in an organization where the people that we work with, first of all, they're all amazing. The department heads, the cabinet level, they all share a common goal in trying to provide services and doing it safely and effectively. And they find ways to step up and to help each other. That's one of the things that I've learned, is that we can be very nimble. We can act quickly in order to solve problems. Sometimes it's clear it's going to be the fire department that has a problem they've got to fix. There's a house on fire. But then very quickly, public works or parks can step in and help that neighborhood just as well. And when I was at the county, they could do that, but it was cumbersome and it was hard in order to get that type of level of resource and support. Hopefully that answers your question.

Great. So knowing that we can accomplish things faster, what's a big-ticket item you'd want to accomplish in your first two or three years?

First two or three years. Oh, boy. Well, I'm excited to get the Sandy Recreation Center up and running for our residents. That's going to be a big accomplishment. It's been a long time coming. We also have some other opportunities with the Canyon School District to look at additional properties and services that could potentially provide additional services to our residents. Immediately, right away, I'm looking forward to working with Public Works and Public Utilities on this proposed merger if it's voted through. I believe that is really an important proposal because it makes us more nimble, quicker to respond, and potentially saves our residents money in the long term. And so I think that's a very important proposal, want to work through. some of the challenges that we've identified, maybe some of the ones that we don't know, that the unintended consequences that may come up as a merger goes forward. But in the end, that proposal is still allowing us to serve residents and do it more effectively and more cost efficient. And I think that's something that is important to all of us. If that merger is approved, that's just the first step. There's a lot of work that needs to happen on that to make sure. So that's going to be something big. One of the biggest things I could say is I also want to provide stability for our employees and that constant support and leadership for our employees. The Sandy City employees are amazing people. You know that. I'm preaching to the choir. If I'm successful at anything, I want to be a leader for them, to be here for them, to be an advocate for them, to help correct them at times when needs be, but to work with them to provide services to residents and to help them be efficient in what they do.

Great answer. Thank you. Lastly, and you don't need to elaborate a ton on this, but I want to know something that would be similar in your leadership style compared to Shane and something that would be different.

Oh, boy. Something that's similar. Shane, I hope... Shane lights up a room. When he comes in, we have some heavy discussions, some very intense discussions. We can get down to brass tacks, but he also brings a sense of humor and lightheartedness that we all need to have at times. We're all humans. We're all working together to get through this. And so it's a skill. It really is. And I want to be that stability to our employees, to emulate that. I don't know if I have his same sense of humor with jokes and such, and I'm not going to try that. Something different is probably a little bit more accountability. And I like to see things written. Our department heads, thankfully, they're not voting on this. I may be requiring some more detailed written follow through and reports as we're going through. It provides a level of accountability when it's on paper when we both clearly understand it. Employees can't be successful if they don't know what success looks like. And so we have to be able to clearly communicate what the task is, what needs to be done, and then set some dates and set some deadlines. And so setting hard deadlines of this is what I need done, this is what success looks like, and it needs to be done on this date. Please follow through with it. That's great. Thank you.

Ms. Stroup? Thank you, Madam Chair. I'm going to give you a chance in case there's something else here, but you may have just answered one of my two questions, kind of the public utilities, public works, but what would be your first step as CAO?

I'm going to take my own advice that I've told our new department heads that have recently come in, is I encourage you to get into the departments and to listen. Shane is leaving the city in a very good place. And so I'm very fortunate, if I'm nominated and gain your support, to step into something that is running very well. development going on. I mean, everything that's happening in our downtown with SEG, with the Miller Group, with others in our sports and entertainment district, there are some amazing things that are happening here. That is, Shane and I go to city manager meetings and conferences. They pull us aside, and they're like, hey, tell us what's going on. How did that happen? How were you able to get this here and there? And so I want to continue that just moving forward. So the short answer is listen. Anytime there's a change, yes, I've learned a lot from Shane. And I think I've shared this with a lot of you. I'm not Shane. And I even told the mayor, please don't expect me to be Shane. I don't have 35 years of Sandy history. But I do have nearly three decades of government experience. And so change can be good sometimes. Seeing a reoccurring problem, an existing problem that occurs over and over again. And Shane may have dealt with them three or four times. maybe seven or eight times. And I get to see it for the first time in a new light. And so I'll bring my experience to that. So immediately, it's listen to soak things in. And then over time, within a few months, maybe six, then start to implement changes that I feel like may make us more effective and efficient.

Thank you. And so my next question, that's kind of for anybody in the room. You know, we are set up, you know, Sandy City is set up with a, we replicate our form of government, government replicates that of the city, or I'm sorry, of the state and the federal. So, you know, we have the two branches. And this is in the executive branch. But when and how contention is natural between legislative and executive in our form of government. How would you navigate, how do you plan to navigate when something comes up where the council and administration are not seeing eye to eye, how do you plan to navigate when Of course, the council is right, but just looking forward to something that may pop up. How would you plan to navigate that?

well fortunately this is something that I've been doing my entire career as you said I've served in our form of government I have served in the same form throughout my entire time Salt Lake County has a strong mayor and same same form of government here so it was a that was another reason I wanted to come to Sandy is because I was very familiar with that and familiar with that challenge at times and that is It's not a bad thing. There's a check and balance in that. And so my role as CAO is to provide advice, to listen to the needs of the legislative side, to try and understand the goals of the policy, the problem that you're trying to solve, and then work with the mayor and follow the mayor's direction to then implement that. There are times where I will provide the mayor advice. We have a conversation and discussion. She will make a decision, and I will follow that. That is the way that I are. Government is set up. But the great thing is there's a lot of dialogue. And it goes back to Chris's question, Councilmember Nichols' question, sorry, is keeping that channel of communication open. And so it's very important. It's something that's very important to me. There will be times we disagree. That's part of our government. But that's OK. We can disagree. And then we need to move forward. We need to treat each other with respect and then move forward.

Thank you. Miss Nichol.

Just one more for me. What's your overall philosophy on managing people. We have a great employee pool in Sandy. And I just want to hear you say how you, your style.

Sure. Thank you for that question. I was kind of hoping somebody would ask that. I have a mantra that I started at the county when I became a director there is I believe we should set our employees up to be successful. We want to set our employees up to succeed. And so regardless of the employee, what their job is, we need to give them the resources, the tools they need to do their job. And more importantly, we need to give them clear instructions of what success looks like. I've said it once here, and I believe this, is our employees can't be successful until we tell them what success looks like. And so an employee in parks, or a firefighter, their success may be completely different in what they look like. But we need to make sure that from the top down, from the mayor's point of view, all the way down to some of our entry level employees, they understand how They fit in the cog that is Sandy. This morning in cabinet, we had a young irrigation specialist come in. He just got hired. Briley, I believe, was his name. Super excited to be here. Full-time job. I think one of his first full-time jobs. Helping him understand what his role is in Sandy City as an irrigation specialist and how he can be successful is really important. Helping them understand what is important comes along. Sometimes we have employees that are not successful, that are not meeting our needs. We have to also address that. And so we set them up to be successful, give them every tool and opportunity to be successful. If they're not, then we'll address it. And we do that through coaching, training, sometimes discipline. But I'm also a big believer in being direct with our employees. I learned that very early on. You just, if somebody is not meeting your expectations, let's tell them. Let's tell them right away. So they can understand where they're falling short. And then we're going to tell them also what success looks like.

I'm going to dig a little deeper on a question that Ms. Stroud asked you. Our form of government. Our form of government is a rather rare form of government as cities go in Utah. It's reserved for the largest cities. Only a handful of us have this form of government, the council mayor form of government, where there is a fairly sharp division of powers, duties, and responsibilities, right? It does emulate both the state government and the federal government. So what I'm curious about And as you pointed out, it can lead to what may appear to be conflict, but really is overall beneficial, right? Discussion, debate, Even disagreement can lead to really good outcomes if what's happening is the effort is landing on the best possible place, right, for those who depend on us. So the council being the legislative and budgetary authority, the administration led by the mayor having the executive authority, can you explain your – I've jotted down some notes – Your philosophy about how that relationship between the council and the administration should work And what is your role as CAO, the chief administrative officer, the top dog outside of the elected officials, right? What is your role in making sure that relationship is productive? And why are you the best qualified person to fill that very important role?

All right. There's a lot of questions in there. Hopefully I get through all of them. Once again, this form of government is something that I've been in my entire career, 27 years. I started as an intern in Logan, worked in the mayor's office for Mayor Doug Thompson, and finished my degree and then moved into the federal government. I saw conflict at the federal level. all the time, but it was much harder to solve the communication channels because you're dealing with congressmen and senators and then department heads from various agencies. It was hard to solve problems at the federal level. We still see that today. Working for the Forest Service as deputy director of communications, I met with angry ranchers, upset forest loggers, recreationists, and trying to communicate their challenges back to somebody else that could change the law was very challenging. And the passion that people have with challenges and issues, just as we're going to see tonight with people, it doesn't change regardless of the level of government. People care, right? And so my role as CAO is to implement the policy, to follow the direction that we've been given, to try and do that as effective as possible. My role is also to make sure that we're following the law, to stay within our state legal policies. Fortunately, we have wonderful counsel that can help us understand that. There's a lot of financial ramifications. I'm so thankful for Brian Kelly that I don't have to know all the financial code, but I can go and sit through and have conversations with him. But there's a stewardship, is the word that I would use, being the CAO, ensuring that the directive that we receive from the legislative branch is implemented and executed as effectively, efficiently, and as safely as possible. There are times where there will be conflict, absolutely. And my role is to then come in, share the challenges with you as a body, sometimes with you individually, let you deliberate. You make a decision on a policy. Once that policy is implemented, then we work our best to go and try and implement that. And when we run into challenges, we come back and we communicate. Communication, trying to build trust, is really important. And it's the key to success. So my philosophy is being open and trying to come back where we do run into challenges and let you know, hey, we're trying to solve your problem. We're trying to solve the problem or the challenge. And sometimes they're not. I always say problems, but your goals. There may be goals or things that we're aspiring to. I don't want you to think that everything is a problem. the aspirations. But a CAO, I act as the intermediary at times. But I implement the administration's policy as well.

I'm going to ask an ethics question then. You have clearly identified the role of the council and legislative is one of those that is in our house, right? Would there be any condition under which the city council, the legislative body, would pass a law and you would not implement it?

So short answer is no. Being part of the city management profession, I'm a certified city manager. There is a code of ethics that we follow. I've had the wonderful privilege of working with Shane, with the mayor, with the cabinet, and they're all wonderful people that really hold themselves to a high standard. If there's something that is unethical or illegal, that is my responsibility to report it, whether it's financial, fiduciary, criminal, in any type of nature. We have to report that. I have a track record of that. At Salt Lake County, I had employees that unfortunately were breaking the law. And it was not just something that ended up costing them their jobs, but there were criminal charges that were brought. And when it came to me, I brought it to light. and then went through the entire process of making sure that that was addressed and handled through the court system. So yeah. Do I have any concerns about the council or the administration doing anything unethical? No. I think we're all here for the same purpose, to try and provide services to our residents. If there is something that happens, I've done it in the past, and I will report it again in the future.

Okay, any more questions for Martin? Looks like not, Martin. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you for the time. I really appreciate it. I enjoyed the conversations that I was able to have with each of you over the past few weeks and look forward to working with you as we move forward. I just want to thank Mayor Zoltanski for your trust in nominating me. And I appreciate it. And Shane, thank you for being a mentor. And please, I hope you'll answer your phone when I call in the future.

Thanks, Martin. I wanted to give you a chance to introduce your family.

Thank you. That was the one thing. I am most grateful for my wife, Krista, is here, and my oldest daughter, Reagan. Reagan lives in Cottonwood Heights. They're amazing. And they're my why. They're great people. And I couldn't do this without them. And especially, I have to say thank you to Krista over the past year. Really bad rock climber. I will never rock climb again. Hopefully, I'll be walking again next week. And thank you. Thank you, Mayor, for that reminder.

Thanks. All right. Thank you, Martin. Well, I'm surprised to look up and see that it is 6 o'clock. That never happens. So we will go ahead and move on to our general citizen comment. Now, again, as a reminder, there will be three opportunities tonight for public comment. General citizen comment is your opportunity to speak to us about anything, whether it's on the agenda or whether it is not. Then we'll have two more public comment times on our agenda item number five which is our public hearing still for our yet unadopted budget and then number six is a voting item for us and that is some amendments to the proposed tentative budget. So anyone who would like to speak during general citizen comment please fill out a blue card if you haven't done so already. And I will call you up to the podium to have an opportunity to give your three minutes. All right. First person who has a card that's indicated to be for general citizen comment is Doug Vogler. Doug are you here. Doug come on up.

OK. Let's wait until 5 then. All right.

I don't think I've got anyone else who's looking to speak during general citizen comment. If I'm wrong about that, raise your hand or step right up down to the microphone. But we also have some people online that may want to make general citizen comment. All right. Jeff Silvestrini, come on down. Three minutes. Thank you.

Hi, members of the council. It's good to see many of you again. So I came tonight to give public comment. I reside in Mill Creek. And if you don't know, I'm the former mayor of Mill Creek, served for nine years in that capacity before I retired. I guess I'm the immediate past chair of the Central Wasatch Commission. And I'm here to talk to you about your proposed budget amendment that would address that. I had the honor of serving with Councilmember Hausman on the Central Wasatch Commission and before that with Councilmember Chris McCandless from Sandy who chaired the Commission when I first joined it. Sandy has always been an esteemed and valued member of that Commission and Sandy's input I think has been important in determining the policy that the Commission has processed or advocated for. And the goal of that commission really is preservation of the central Wasatch Commission, which are central to all of our lives. I can look behind you at your city seal that says Sandy is the heart of the Wasatch, and pictures of the Wasatch Mountains and Little Cottonwood Creek, I presume, coming out of it, which we all enjoy for drinking water, for recreation, and those things. In the context of Sandy's budget, I think that the contribution that Sandy makes, the monetary contribution, is not terribly significant. However, Sandy's role in the commission is very significant. And I would hate to see Sandy lose its voice on that commission. Obviously, if Sandy's not going to make a financial contribution to the commission, then it's not going to be a member of the commission, I suspect. And that would be a loss. I remember a time in your city's history before the current administration where Sandy kind of disappeared off the face of the map in Salt Lake County and local politics. on boards and commissions. And I think that does not serve the interests of Sandy's residents well. The amount of money that gets paid by Sandy in the past toward the Central Wasatch Commission benefits Sandy City residents. And a lot of that money actually comes back to your residents, either in the form of grants, like removing graffiti from Bells Canyon, which I think is more used by Sandy City residents than Mill Creek residents, because we go to our own places. And also to pay for secondary employment for Sandy City police officers to escort buses on the bus bypass program. And that bus bypass program does benefit everyone, but I think it may benefit Sandy residents more significantly than others for two reasons. One, I think that it's easier for Sandy residents to get on that bus because they're closer to it to get up the canyon. But maybe more importantly, It relieves the traffic burden to the residents of Sandy who live close to the mouth of the canyon, some of whom, as you, I know you're fully aware, either can't leave or can't get home during bad traffic hours. So the more we can get people riding that bus and ease traffic considerations, the better off we'll be. The more likely we do that, the less likely we have a gondola. So the other thing I just want you to consider if I can have the privilege of another minute. Mayor, I'm sorry.

Your three minutes is expired. But we'd be happy if you would like to email us.

I'll email you. I just want to say one final thing, which is please consider the reputational damage to Sandy of not being on the Central Wasatch Commission. Please consider that a lot of other local officials have say over grants and other things. Mr. Silvestrini? If Sandy is not at the table, it's not presented.

Thank you.

All right. Thank you.

All right. Once again that's all I have of blue cards here on that general citizen comment. Dustin can we invite our online participants to see if they would like to speak.

Of course Madam Chair. If you are joining us virtually this evening via Zoom and you'd like to comment on any city business now's the time. Go ahead and click the raise hand button on your screen. I'll call your name in the order in which you raised your hand and you'll have three minutes. Madam Chair, first up is Dave Eaglin. Dave, I'm going to allow you to begin speaking. Please remember to unmute yourself and you'll have three minutes.

Good evening. Thank you, City Council, for the opportunity to address you this evening. I'm very grateful to Martin and what he has done and especially bringing up that all of you had the difference between executive and legislative and terms of sharp distinction. And I just want y'all to think about how do you sound. I invite you to watch and listen to yourselves as you have met in council over the last three and a half years that I've paid attention. The interesting thing is where there's the distinction between it, we are seeing especially tonight you're going to be voting on 26-315 about taking money slash power away from the mayor and giving it to yourselves. How does that sound? How does that sound to us as citizens? Something that has not been brought up in those three and a half years, the executive and legislative, is who do you represent? You are to represent the Sandy citizens. Interestingly enough, Are you holding town halls or district halls where you are listening to us and giving us the opportunity to be with you? I've heard a few of you say that you have, and I've never been invited. As Sandy citizens, it's good for us to know that our at-large positions and each of the representatives for our districts should be contacting us. We should be talking to them. and they should be listening to us and legislating by what we say. Instead, we have three-minute video and problems, and we have five-minute recesses that are allowed but no videos, stuff like this. How does it sound to us when the interim chief, Nyberg talked about his budget, It sounded like he was getting raked over the coals. The police department and fire department are the most important in our city. And why is he interim? Why have you not put it on your schedule to agenda to vote him in? That does not make the police very happy. Just go talk to him. So please, and I'm just letting our Sandy citizen people know we need, we're in charge. And you need to be listening to us. Instead of this contention that was brought up, it's unnecessary. I've asked us to stop before. It's getting worse. Let the mayor be the mayor and you guys be the council. And I really would appreciate that. Thank you for your time.

Thank you.

Okay, Madam Chair, next up is Thomas Fenaday. Thomas, I'm going to allow you to begin speaking. Please remember to unmute yourself and you'll have three minutes.

Great, thank you all. And I come here as a newbie. I moved to Sandy just about five years ago, so I don't pretend to know much about the environment and everything. I will double what the previous speaker just said regarding getting along and working together. Like I said, I don't know the politics and all, but I can get a sense of what's happening. That's not why I came to speak, though. I just wanted to first congratulate you all. I did read something in the local paper about Sandy lawmakers. Fiscal health is top priority, and they scrap merit pay for elected officials. Congratulations and thank you as a citizen. I say thank you to you for keeping the benefits of the citizens versus your own benefits and the benefits of the government in check. So thank you for that. And regarding the fiscal health, I would just, again, warn you as a previous resident of Los Angeles and Glendale, California, who moved here for reasons, Key services should be your focus. As you come up against this fiscal health, key services, police, fire, streets. That was the one thing I was very much impressed with when I moved here was the streets are maintained unlike in California. The DMV works great. The police are absolutely fantastic. So just the street cleaning and the trash pickup, all of your key city services are excellent. So please stay focused on that. Don't get distracted with pet projects and social programs and things like that. That being said, and I don't know how much time I have left, but that being said, I have noticed a rise in homelessness. I've noticed a rise of big schools. I've noticed a rise of kids' jobs now becoming career jobs for lower income people. These are all little things that slowly, over the course of 20 years, took LA from one of the greatest and most beautiful cities in the world to an absolute mess that I despise visiting every time I have to go because it just breaks my heart. And I don't want to see that happening to Sandy or the greater Salt Lake. And I do see it happening. And it happens slowly. And it happens stealthily. And I just warn you all about that. One of the other things I've noticed is more and more buildings are up for lease, which worries me. So as the initial person said, weigh on unintended consequences. So be very careful about unintended consequences in what you do and decisions you make and what power you choose to give yourself. So thank you very much. I hope I didn't go over time.

Thank you.

OK, Madam Chair, next up is Shawn McMillian. Shawn, I'm going to allow you to begin speaking. Please remember to unmute yourself, and you'll have three minutes.

Thank you. I am also a California transplant 45 years ago. And for the 45 years I've lived in the Salt Lake Valley, six weeks ago I was able, with my husband, to move into Sandy City proper. And I can tell you that I'm very concerned about canceling some of the groups and I'm not well versed on the agenda, but I'll get better with time. I'm concerned about changing horses in the middle of the stream, no pun intended. Mayor Zotansky was voted in at a certain salary And I think it's unethical to raise the council members pay and their annual expenses double while cutting the mayor and also cutting neighborhood programs and cutting the relationship. I'm from a place called Laguna Beach and one of the things that we always fought and I was involved with that city government peripherally and It's really important to preserve the wild areas. That's why I wanted to move to Sandy. I mean, 35 years ago, I went into Dimpledale and it's been a 35 year goal to get into Sandy so that I can be close to hike and ride in Dimpledale. And so I'm not very articulate. I apologize for that, but I hope you sense that I'm really concerned as somebody who has loved the city of Sandy for decades. and just now has been blessed to become a part of it. Thank you all for the service that you do, and I appreciate the informed comments from my two previous speakers. Thank you. Thank you.

Madam Chair, I don't see any other hands raised online. I do think you got one more blue comment card though.

Henry, are you looking to speak during, okay, come on down.

On this mayor situation, there you go. West Jordan mayor only makes 124,000. Why is our mayor making 180,000? Almost the same. Areas. Same amount. That's my concern. You guys do a lot for the city. That counts a lot. You guys have helped me out a lot. I think you guys do a lot for us. I've sat down with a lot of you guys and talked to you on personal matters and stuff. Like, Brooke Sousa called me today and said... what's going on i said okay i'll come down and say my personal opinion yeah okay if you're going to take money away from the mayor then look at other like other people saying we need to look at where we can put the money or if you guys are not equally same rate, there you go, then we need to make you the same rate. That's how I look at it. Even if it's a $5,000 or more a year, then to make it even across the board, because you all do tremendous across. Everybody have contacted me and helped me out. Parking down on Monroe Street, I haven't complained. I have left it alone. But I have went down there about in the last four weeks and saw the same cards sitting out on the street. Why is our Sandy Police Department not doing nothing? I've reached out. Captain Arnold's been awesome to talk to about this too. But why haven't our police, Intermittent Police Chief, even called me back when I sent him an email saying, please call me back? And he tells me he's going to. I don't care if you're going to tell me you're going to do it. You better do it. That's how I feel. Thank you.

Thank you. All right. That's all the blue cards I've got as well. So I will close general citizen comment this evening and we'll work right back into the agenda. The next item on the agenda, Ivan, are you going to present this? This is the Public Works Department presenting us with an interlocal agreement between Sandy City and Salt Lake County for traffic signal services.

Yep. As you may recall from this current budget year, Funding was allocated for the construction of a pedestrian signal on Wasatch Boulevard at 2220 East. We've been working with the county on an agreement for that. And that's what we're talking about is that interlocal agreement to install that pedestrian signal, commonly known as a hawk signal. So pretty straightforward, I think.

Questions, counsel, for Ivan? Ms. Nichol.

So the hawk signal, it's the one that has the arms that come down, correct?

No. These are the ones that's got the flashing red lights, and then it turns solid. It starts with yellow flashing lights. Then there's red flashing lights, then a red solid light. So for example, there's one just north of the Expo Center on 94 South between there and Jordan Commons. There's one on 106th between 13th East and 17th East.

I couldn't remember which one Hawk was, so thank you.

Miss D'Souza.

Thank you. I don't have a question. I just wanted to say that I look forward to supporting this in our local agreement for the installation of that hawk signal there. As a resident that lives near there and kids that have gone to school and neighbors that try to cross Wasatch there, it's definitely a needed upgrade for our pedestrian safety. So thank you.

Any other questions, council?

So Ivan, there's something in there already that we're upgrading, right?

Correct.

So tell us about that. We're going from what to what, and what do we expect to achieve?

Yeah, so currently we have rectangular rapid flashing beacons, commonly known as RRFBs. And so that is the pedestrian pushes the button, just the yellow flashing light off to the side of the road. So that's just to warn people that there will be a pedestrian there. With the pedestrian, signal, you've got the red light. And so there's a legal obligation to stop for the red light. So it's considered a higher form of protection. It also will have a mast arm out over the road like a typical traffic signal. So rather than being on the side of the road, it'll be out in the middle where it's more visible, larger lights as well. So like I said, just an enhanced form of pedestrian protection.

So the way the HAWC works is that there will be a solid red, which means stop. And then will it go to flashing, which means stop and then proceed if no one's in the crosswalk? Exactly. OK. And do you have a plan for the RRFB that you're getting back? Do you know where you're putting that?

I've got an idea, yes. I'd like to put that on 1,000 East at about 80th South There have been quite a few people that have requested a pedestrian crossing there. And so that's kind of what I've had in the back of my mind.

I'm hearing some positive remarks over here from our constituents who have let us know the problems. Okay, so this is fully funded. The $116,000 is just to Salt Lake for the installation services. So you've also got the funding for the signal itself, and it says we need to pay for a boring contractor, but this is all fully funded. And when are you thinking about doing the work?

So the county seems to be chomping at the bit ready to go. So I think shortly after we've got the signed agreement I expect them to be out there and we're hopeful that we can have it ready before by the time school starts shortly thereafter if not.

That would be awesome. Thank you. I don't see any more questions. Thank you Ivan. Appreciate that report. All right. We have got two sets of minutes that need a consent. Do I have a motion for the consent calendar?

Motion to approve the consent calendar. Second.

Got a motion and a second. All in favor? Aye. Any opposed? All right. Moving on to the public hearing, it's agenda item number five. Brian, you want to step up to the microphone? Do you have any this is an ongoing public hearing on the tentative budget which we opened weeks ago. Is there anything new you have to report to the council this evening.

No, Madam Chair. Yeah, this is a continued hearing. We started the last week of May that we've continued. Next week, we will have some revisions for you regarding the new department that you established last week on communications. So we'll have that in the packet this weekend. But tonight, I don't have anything additional.

Council members, any questions for Brian?

No, not really, but we got the RFPs back for the public safety building, and I would like to ask Brian to bring back a funding proposal next week for that so we can get going on it. Is that okay if he brings that back?

Brian can you do that? Do you have time? It's possible, yes.

Okay. So maybe I'll work with Brian.

So that will wind up being up for a vote too, up for adoption with – Yeah, it's not in the tentative but your resolution prior asked us to do an RFP, get a budget figure based on the proposals and we have those now and we can provide that.

Thanks, Brian. Any more questions for Brian?

All right, so this is a public hearing. And so I will open the public hearing to public comment. Again, this is item.

We're not going up. We're still just doing five, right?

OK. That's OK. All right. I'm going to see real quick. OK. This is agenda item number five guys. So this is this is just the ongoing tentative budget that we've been considering for weeks. It does look like I have a few people that want to speak to this issue. Let me make sure. Let me see how many I have. Let me segment these so I know where I'm going. OK. Thank you all by the way for giving this information that helps me know where I'm gonna go and what I'm gonna do, okay. We're not doing that, we're gonna move on to that after we do this. This is the separate public hearing, right? Okay, so Kent Jaffa. Kent, come on up. You have three minutes.

My name is Kent Jaffa. I'm a past member of the Alda Canyon Recreation District Board Special Tax District for 16 years. I want to address my remarks tonight to the Alda Canyon Special Services Tax District. Please put on your hats for this discussion. Even though your constituents did not live, do not live in the area, or only a third of them do, please represent our area as a board member. My most important thing is to stop the unapproved taxing of our district. The residents of this district should not be taxed the full tax this fiscal year since the sports center only operated for six weeks. They should not be taxed in the future in this budget you're considering. District voters only approved this tax for recreational activities within the district, not outside the district as currently being done. The cost to run these activities outside the district is outrageous. There's a subsidy of about $2,900 per participant. I don't think that's why I use my taxes, and neither do a lot of others. The district should not be taxed for the operation of the new community center. Some have said the new community center is a district facility, so they continue to tax just our part of the city. How can you tell this is a city facility? Well, the district residents did not vote to be taxed for it. The district residents voted down any new taxes to build a larger facility. Did the district enter into a contract to build a new community center? No, the city did. Is there a resolution from the district requesting the city to enter into a contract to build this center for our benefit or to build it for our purposes? The name of the facility was chosen to represent the entire city, not just Alta Canyon. That was voted down. City officials have been acting like this is their facility. If it walks like a duck, swims like a duck, quacks like a duck, it is a city facility. No other portion of the city is being taxed for recreational facilities. Historically, our area is the only area that would support this. If the tax is not refunded and ceased, our area will continue to be penalized for helping out the city. Historically, the city has spent more of the recreational funds in other portions of the city than out at Canyon. We are now going to be penalized again by being the only portion of the city to be taxed for the city's community center. So I just call upon the district to talk to the city council and tell them to stop this unfair tax.

Thank you. All right. Doug, do you want to come up and speak now?

My name is Doug Vogler. I live at the mouth of Little Cottonwood Canyon. I've been part of Friends of Little Cottonwood Canyon. I'm concerned with the announcements that you are not going to continue with the Central Wasatch Commission. I think that's an important body that took a lot of organization and time to come together to protect the mountains. And to not participate in that, I think, is a big mistake. I don't think the funding is that bad. I heard it was 60,000 and maybe it's going to be 90,000. But the benefits, as the previous person was stating, of protecting our canyons, it's our stewardship at Sandy to protect our canyons. I'm a little concerned that it's The reasons behind this are still to promote a gondola option up the canyon. There's plenty of good options, such as increased busing and tolling and taking away the police to help with the crowded people getting up the canyon on a bad day. I live in that triangle, so we have trouble going out and coming back in. And the police do help a lot because they'll let us come in or go out. It will. And so to threaten that additional resource as part of the CWC funding, I think it's a big mistake. And also my other last comment is that if 89% of the people are against a gondola, why do we keep doing things that support it instead of supporting increased busing and tolling and things that protect our canyon and not destroy such a wonderful resource that we have there? Thanks.

Thank you. All right. Roger Bork.

Good evening, mayors Osansky and members of the council. My name is Roger Burke. I am a representative of your neighbor to the east. I'm the mayor of Alta. In these times of strife and contention, there are a few rays of sunshine. and I'm just not talking about the sky, where neighbors get together and address issues of mutual interest and concern and come to a relationship that works well for all. Fortunately, we in the greater Salt Lake area have a mechanism for that collaboration, and it's called the Central Lost Hatch Commission. The body works to develop policies that address four major issues specific to the central Wasatch, transportation, economic viability, environmental sustainability, and recreation stewardship. I am very pleased to report that Mary Zoltanski has worked to advance the mission of the CWC in collaboration with me and other representatives of the communities along the Wasatch Front and the Wasatch Back. Sandy is a key member of that body. I understand that some in Sandy are considering withdrawing from the CWC.

I encourage you not to do so.

Together, we municipalities are stronger than individually. And participation in the CWC is a great way to continue that direction. I recall seeing a patch one day that said, Sandy, gateway to Alta. I like that patch. Indeed, it is. And let's keep it that way, not only geographically, but functionally and spiritually as well. Thank you.

Thank you. And Margaret Burke.

Thank you for the opportunity to speak. I wanted to mirror some of the things that were said already today. Mr. Martin talked about the Wasatch being a gem. And Ms. Hausman talked about the foundation that's important as we consider anything. And I think you were talking about his employment. I'm sorry, Ms. Hausman. The idea is that the foundation is critical to any sort of structure and that Foundation for Central Wasatch Commission was Mountain Accord, which was worked on for a long time. It developed and came into being the Central Wasatch Commission. I think in terms of your budget, you've looked at reducing overtime, benefits, and snow removal and putting those funds into reserves. I question the value of that because the foundation needs to be there for these people to do their important jobs. And the housing and the water conservation for the parkway strips I think are exactly the kind of future looking that needs to take place and the extraction from Central Wasatch Committee of Sandy City is not that kind of future looking. So we need to focus on today's reality, which is weather and economics, and reducing the salary of the mayor, as somebody else said, at a time when this is something that's going to take place in two weeks. And an increase of all of your salaries that would take place in a year doesn't make a lot of sense to me. The transparency is there already. It was in the budget when the mayor was elected. And to change it now is not the value that I think we need to have. Thank you. Thank you.

All right. That's all the cards I have for agenda item number five. Those of you who are waiting for six hold tight. We're going to get there in just a second. Dustin can you see if we have online participants that would like to participate in this public hearing for the budget.

Of course Madam Chair. Again if you're joining us virtually this evening and you'd like to comment on item number five which is the public hearing to consider adoption of the FY27 Sandy City budget. Go ahead and click the raise hand button on your screen. I'll call your name in the order in which you raised your hand and you'll have three minutes to speak. Okay Madam Chair we've got Steve Van Maren. Steve I'm going to allow you to begin speaking. Please remember to unmute yourself and you'll have three minutes.

Thank you, Dustin. Good evening, Council. Steve Van Maren, resident of Draper. I just want to go on the record as opposing the merger of Public Works and Public Utilities. I understand part of the reason is for housing of snowplow trucks. That's fine. You can house them over there. You can lease the space. and proceed to consider rebuilding or improving the conditions at the public works area. I don't think a merger is appropriate. Now, that's a principle. And I don't think you're going to save much money in salaries because you're still going to need a director of each department as well as an overall, sorry, a manager of each department as well as an overall leader. So thank you for your time tonight.

Thank you.

I don't see any other hands raised Madam Chair.

Right. We're going to leave open the public hearing as we have been doing for the last three weeks and will for the next couple until we adopt that budget. So we'll move on to agenda item number six which is council voting item again for purpose of just accepting and moving it into a later vote. So this is some council, proposed council budget amendments that we'll be considering as kind of an information item tonight and then a final action later. We will start with Ms. Christensen and Ms. Nickel.

Okay, so we have this budget proposal in here.

Do you want to bring it up, Dustin?

Thank you. We want to hit a couple highlights of it first. I know it's been talked about extensively, and there's also some things we need to clarify. I think that's why everyone's here. So we'll get to that in a minute. This proposed budget, this is a very tight budget year. We're all aware of that. And so we're looking at places where we can reasonably adjust and still get the core services to function like we need them to. So the first thing on the item is consolidated fee schedule. When we did our... departments, Public Works told us that they were not charging the full cost of the dumpster fee. They were charging $300, but in reality it costs $310 on average for each load. So we're just proposing that we increase that fee from $300 to $310 so that we are actually covering our costs on that instead of losing money that we have to meet and use from the general fund or other funds. And also it's still significantly lower than if you went to a private company to have those services. Do you guys have any questions for Chris and I about that? Okay.

Going to water operations and the water fund, and this is specifically going to CWC membership, not funding, not being able to fund the membership does not mean that we lose our seats. on the CWC. I'm talking with somebody who's on the foundation, and there are opportunities for us to stay. The fact that I think we weren't able to fund it maybe 10 or 15 years ago, yet we will still remain a member. So I just wanted to assure you guys that that doesn't automatically mean that we lose our seat. And we've allocated the money towards what we always need money for is main light replacement. Any questions on that?

Just another comment on that is that since we've been a member since 2017, we've paid into, first it was the Mountain Accord. Thank you. And we've paid into it $640,000 over the course of the last 10 years. And we've received back $334,580 in grants that does pay our police a little bit of that. I think last year was roughly $26,000. And it's been varying amounts. And then also it pays for parts of the bus service up and down. And the main purpose for Sandy being part of the CWC is to pass the federal legislation from the Mountain Accord so that we can get those protections for the watershed. That hasn't happened in the last 10 years that we're aware of. No one from our federal delegation has picked this up as an item to pursue at a federal level. So that's just a little bit of background where we're coming from on this item. Questions? No.

OK. The fleet purchases next. This goes to Mr. Van Meeren's comments of having the merger brought to us kind of really quickly during the budget. And that's not a problem. But it just seems really fast. And to try to not save a little money, but to hold back a little money for fleet purchases that could be redundant. Both departments were asking for different fleet purchases that could be possibly redundant. And there was a lot of talk about sharing apparatus. We really haven't gotten any of the details. So just incrementally holding a little bit back. I think the total was 3 million or something like that. And we're holding back a million. Kind of keep us in the loop.

Yeah, and it's not intended to not be given back to them once we get the inventory and the comparison of what they need. It's just to hold it until we do get that.

Ms. D'Souza. Thank you. I don't have a question so much because I've had the opportunity to speak with you on your proposals. I just want to say, you know, from the standpoint of this public works merger that I do understand, you know, that the quick... agility that we need to be a little bit agile here to allow for the possibility for this merger to take place at the coming of the budget year. But at the same time, as a council member and as one of a body of seven responsible for creating or dissolving departments, divisions, whatnot, I think that it's important that we have more information about how the department's going to more effectively run. And again, maybe some more concrete data on some of the fleet for example you know just to make sure again that as we make decisions with regard to this potential merger that we're completely caught up to speed on the actual plan because again trying to get everything done quickly for the budget and allow for some flexibility there you know we have had to put off some of that conversation. So overall, specifically with this one, I support the hold back with the ability to fully fund the purchase of these once we have more information about our needs.

And we have talked to the administration about this, and they do not see a problem with this issue. It's something they're planning on doing anyway. It just makes it an accountability. There's nothing that is so urgent that it can't wait a little bit for this money. Okay, so another item on our list is the consolidated staffing schedule, which I know there's been a lot of talk about this lately, especially on social media, so I just wanted to clear up any misconceptions that might be out there. And it's been brought up a couple of times. The goal here is to create a solid policy for how elected officials are paid, which the policy will be forthcoming shortly, but we wanted to make sure that the budgets were made to the, the adjustments were made to the budget. So basically it's saying that if, and I know we've all seen the chart of how The pay in different positions have been increasing or decreasing. All of ours have been increasing overall. And so we just want to make sure that we have a range. And so there's a formula that Ms. Nichols has come up with. It's really good. And we've been talking about it with lots of different people to make sure that we're getting all the input we need. And we'll continue to do so if this is moved to the short list. It takes into effect economic factors, city size, median household income in Sandy, and surrounding cities that are similar size and government types, what their elected officials are making as well. And when we put all of those factors, there's about 12 factors into that equation and came up with it. The mayor's salary came up to about $160,000 per year, and that is a decrease. The mayor, we've talked about this. She is definitely aware. And down from the $179,900 that's there right now. But it also would set a policy that makes the council members a quarter of the mayor's pay. And you can also see that reflected in the discretionary fund spending as well, that same principle when we get that far, because the mayor does have a larger role within the community than part-time council members sometimes have. And so it's just an adjustment. is recommended to go into effect for the mayor's salary on July 1st with this budget. The council salary will not go into effect this year. There's no actual discussion of that happening. We know the budget's tight. We are trying to be good stewards of this. So our recommendation would be that it go into effect for July of 2028. for the 27-28 budget. And it would also adjust that the council chair would not be paid a differential salary. It would just be a flat across the board. And then this salary for all elected officials would be reevaluated yearly. So annually we'd look at the same calculation and we would make the same adjustments to everyone's salary.

at the same time so we're not seeing those huge spikes that we've seen in the graph that will help resetting everybody next year and i think the median income really ties us to our constituency very well we've never been able to point back and say how is this connecting us to our constituency and i think this is a good start to train and change to this uh formula

Yeah, our median household income in Sandy, and it's estimated because we don't have the final numbers, but for the last two years has been between $112,000 and $114,000. And that, when they calculate that, that's anyone in your household who's 15 or older that pays taxes, they count everyone into that number. So that's one of the bigger areas we used for the calculation.

And just to clarify, there were some comments about our discretionary spending funds, to put it in perspective, we get $2,000 to spend a year. And that's for constituent outreach, things that we may need to go to, League of Cities and Towns, those types of things. And we're only increasing it to $2,000 for us because that will barely even cover the cost for some of us. So it's not an astronomical amount that we are are allocating to ourselves.

And then also the mayor's budget would be four times ours to account for the one-fourth differential that we're kind of using across the board. Do you guys have any questions about that part of it that you want to ask now?

So regarding, yeah, just over my edification on what we're looking at amending for this budget. All we're looking at amending, the only action that we're taking is the reduction on the mayor's salary consistent with what you guys have proposed. But in terms of the adoption of a policy, what a policy looks like, that is completely up for discussion at a later time. In terms of where we land on, if any changes are made to council income. That would be a later time, public comment on it, a public process through it. So all we're looking at doing right now is that one action. And that's it.

I mean, the hope for us is that the policy would come back fairly quickly, like within the next couple of weeks. As soon as the budget's done, that would be the priority to make sure that we have that and that we can work through that as a group and get HR and admin and legal and citizen comment, all those things that we need to make the policy solid for the future.

Ms. D'Souza.

Thank you. I don't have any questions because this was something that I spoke with you guys about to really understand coming into the meeting You know like I mentioned with the public works merger and the ability, you know The need to be flexible and agile with regard to the budget, you know I kind of see it took me a little bit to understand the the segregation between the adjustment and the policy, but thank you for helping me understand that there needed to be some time in order for the policy to be created and shared outside of all of the stuff that everybody's trying to do to finalize our budget. for a long time have questioned how any of our salaries are calculated. I didn't know when I ran for public office if there was a salary or what it was. And it wasn't something that anybody could tell me exactly what it was, because we don't presently have any real policy. And so I do think that it's important as we consider the potential policy and calculation that we take into consideration the service aspect of our roles. I do believe that it is appropriate to ensure that each of us, all eight of us electeds, are compensated for our service work, but not to the level of private career type of compensation that has the potential for unlimited growth. That's not where we're at in these roles. And I think each of us know that going in. Otherwise, maybe there are some questions that we should ask ourselves. Overall, I understand where this is coming from and agree that there needs to be a better policy in place because, again, we don't really have anything. It does allow for the politicization, I don't know if that's a word, of the pay. I don't think that that's something that is necessary. We've identified a problem, and we are trying to solve it. And there will be a lot of opportunity for discussion on the best way to solve that problem. But thank you for taking this up. This is not an easy thing to take up or talk about at any time for any of us. So thank you for taking the first step to have the conversation.

MS. Ms. Hausman. MS. Go ahead.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Just a clarifying question to make sure I'm tracking. The ratio was determined from the 12 components you studied, and it was determined that the right ratio is elected, The elected officials ratio is council members, and you're talking both our discretionary spending, like what we need to attend training and be engaged with constituents, et cetera. So that pool is a quarter of what the mayor has to spend for that same level of engagement with the community. salary is a quarter of what the mayor is and that is revisited every year and so if if the decision through the analysis is made to reduce we're reducing both because that ratio stays so whatever the mayor is making again any mayor at any point in time whatever that the mayor is the city council is a quarter of that so An adjustment down is an adjustment down for all elected officials.

Okay, just wanted to make sure I was tracking. At just one point, the median income has never decreased. It's never been a minus. I mean, I think I studied it fluctuating between 15% and 26% over the past 10 years, but I didn't go further back. But I can have those numbers, too, when I bring back the policy.

Mr. DeKaiser.

Thank you Madam Chair. Can I just clarify that ratio because it says that the mayor's discretionary fund is 10,000. Is there already a 10,000?

No that was Marcy it's the discretionary fund is not the 0.25. It actually is.

This says 10,000 but in conversations with the mayor over the weekend and going through lot of negotiations, that we're recommending that that's going to move up to $20,000. Can I move on or more questions about this item?

Ms. Straub. Thank you, Madam Chair. I think that it's just like Ms. D'Souza brought up. It is good to have a policy on how elected officials are paid. And I support looking at that and evaluating it. You know, coming up with a ratio. I think, actually, Erin, we kind of talked a little bit about this maybe a year, year and a half ago. I believe Mayor, we kind of talked a little bit about it as well. I think looking and finding out what that is, it's not a bad thing. You know, to come up with, it gives residents, I mean, we can point to it and say, well, here it is. You know, it's coming into it, coming into this as well. I didn't know if we were paid at all. And then even until I sat down actually with Mr. Applegarth, you know, and he said, oh, you know, here it is. I'm like, oh, okay, we get paid. Um, you know, so having that policy where we can, where anybody or any resident can look at that, you know, and understand it, I think is a good thing. You know, the, the question I do have with this is it's, I think it's almost backwards. Um, you know, and that's, and I, I've spoken a little bit with this, um, with the two of you is I think we should have a policy and whether that's you know, a team or a committee that's kind of looking at the 12 criteria or 12 factors, what you call them, discussing it, having that input, you know, and looking at that and then bringing it forward and saying this is what we found and This is what we came up with. I think having a committee to do that first would be helpful. It's a touchy subject. Any time when we talk about pay, whether that's pay for ourselves, whether that's pay for employees, whether that's COLA, whether that's merit, we had a difficult discussion earlier this year on merit and indicating and the council took action Once it was brought to us of saying, you know what, elected officials are no longer going to get merit. And that was something that we took two and a half months ago, you know, action on that, you know, and that was a decision that as many years, you know, that I've been on the council that, you know, the council has been established before. That's just the way it happened. You know, that elected officials each year were given the COLA and then the average of merit. So this council removed that and said, we don't think so. You know, the COLA, we understand. But, you know, so I think that we had started down that path. But I do think having some sort of committee ahead of time to be able to make sure that the recommendation 160, is that where we should start? that that would be more helpful for me. So I think it's just in my brain, and I know that both of you have tried to explain it, and I'm like, I get it. And then I'm like, wait a second, I don't get it. I'm looking at that. So I think that if we had that information and had that committee input beforehand would be more helpful. And knowing that we can open the budget at any point as well and make that adjustment.

Ms. D'Souza.

I just wanted to piggyback on one other thing. Generally, again, like with the Public Works, public utilities merger and wanting to have that information prior to having to making a decision, I totally understand where Councilmember Stroud's coming from. And ideally, that would be the way to go. The one thing that I think becomes even more concerning, like maybe an unintended consequence of that even, is in looking at pay ranges. So the $179,900 that's been quoted specifically for the mayor's pay right now, With the fiscal year the next budget that passes July 1st, it would go to 184 392, right? So that's plus, you know a six thousand dollar vehicle allowance and a twelve hundred dollar phone allowance and so that's almost 190,000 and if we're talking about, you know potentially creating a Policy that reduces pay letting it increase that much to bring it back down I think is maybe more More harmful and so like I don't know that there's a right answer but that was just another thought in in you know align with councilmember Stroud that Kind of put me back into a different understanding of the process But again, like I don't know that there's a right or wrong, but it was something that I factored in as well.

Thanks We appreciate all the comments. Absolutely. We said if this does go on the shortlist we still have a two weeks to figure out details we need to to make people comfortable to vote on it again.

Okay, I'll move on to the next couple points. This is more of a general fund cleanup, moving what's called grant in non-departmental. into the CAOs. It's a payment for lobbyists that we get tenfold back. So it's just a budget cleanup in trying to reduce non-departmental balances in that. The next one is we lost a really, really great person in our small team of four. And replacing it, it's been decided that we're going to replace it with more of a communications type person. And so we needed to go in and fully fund that to a different level because the job that Liz was doing versus the job that the new person is doing, it would be substantially different. So we're not increasing our budget a ton. I think it's like $20,000 to complete our little group of four people that work with us.

And we did talk to HR and Dustin, and they looked at the job requirements and set the salary range for that. So we're just fully funding the already approved position. It's just policy, right, of the city to fund positions the first year fully and then see where our actuals land.

I think the other part of it was explained, like the $2,500. Yeah, we talked about that.

So another item on here is the events in the general fund. So the cultural celebration for Hell Center Theatre is in special programs, I believe, in non-departmental. So we're just going to recommend that that be moved to the events budget. Councilmember Christensen. Well I'm just making sure I think your microphone might have gotten turned off. So sorry. I need to repeat that. Did you guys all hear? OK. Sorry. OK. So for Move Health Center Theater into the community events department, no amount changes, and then the remaining event supply we want to allocate to actual projects so it's not just there. We want to put it to where it needs to go so we have better tracking and know what we're doing. So we're suggesting that the America 250 has $5,000. It didn't have any before. There was no line items associated with that event. That we move an additional $12,650 into the 4th of July and that was based on historical... Generally spend more around that but it's spent through other line items and in different budgets, too So this will clean up that as well and then light up the Cairns didn't have any money a lot a lot of to it either so we wanted to put the 5,000 we usually spend there back into that budget and then the hard one is that Sandy specifically historic sandy because it's my area right and it's Got two festivals in it a year, which is amazing For the last I don't know how long maybe Shane would know 50 years we've had the historic heritage festival and Had that every year and the mayor's added the horse parade to it. It's been a great event and so In the last four years or so, five maybe, it's changed and that has been, the funding has been split and there's been two events instead and it's the summer barbecue. So we're just recommending that those events be combined back together and the budget reduced a little bit so that would increase the heritage festival or heritage barbecue, whatever we want to call it. Whatever the mayor wants to call it. Back up to the $15,000 that has historically been there and spent. And then eliminate the other one to get a little bit of budget savings there. And then also in anticipation of future community events that we're going to have in upcoming years that we need to spread throughout the city.

That's a hard one. I know.

And then that will actually leave us right around, I think, $9,900 that are unallocated. in the events. And so we just are recommending that we either get an allocation from the administration so we can put them into the appropriate places and tell them we'll just move it into council contingency.

Yeah, and pull it from there at any time. But that's the recommendation.

Any questions about that one? Ms. Housman.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Again, just a clarity. And I may have misread it. And so I think I understood the intent, and again, maybe I misread it, but it sounds like you were also identifying the value of merging those events back together is reducing staff time. Yes, thank you. I think the numbers were inverted in the document, but it's no big deal. It's fine. That's why I'm clarifying. So you're saying, in addition to everything you just described, the value of requiring one less evening away from home, one less, you know, because for all of the employees who support those things. So essentially we're asking that we would move from two events that a large number of employees are supporting in the evening to one event. Okay. That was a clarifying question.

One other note. Historic barbecue is historically not seen the amount of people come as the Heritage Festival. You get a larger turnout.

Yeah, and it's changed in the last few years since they took the funding from the Heritage Festival because it used to be a full meal, but now the full meal is at the summer barbecue. And so wherever the full meal is going to be is going to get the most people. So if we put it together, it's just going to be a cost savings for the community. Okay. Okay. PIO, is that our next one?

Yeah.

Okay, sorry, let me flip. So we're just saying that we want to transfer the full amount into, this has gone back and forth a number of times, to the mayor's budget or to the communications budget. I think at this point in time, we've landed on the communications budget, but this will still be a person who reports directly to the mayor and completely supports her All of her communications needs just like it's happening now. It won't be the dual Pulling from this budget in this budget a quarter from here to pay for the person It's just paid for out of one It's and it's cleaner in the budget and this this will be the person the mayor requested to have her support her that she has had and So that won't change the level of support just the budget. It's coming out of Mr. Sousa

So say that again. I just want to make sure that I totally understand where this is. Is it like it is in the packet where you're proposing that a person be moved?

We were proposing that a person be moved into the mayor's budget because they're supporting the mayor. But through the different conversations and communications we've had, there's been some significant requests to move that person's allocation into the communications budget. but they'll still support the mayor.

Okay, yes. I just wanted to make sure I understood because presently that role is supported from two different budgets, not just the communications, so that would have way underfunded communications as to where it is now. Okay, thank you.

Just about the pio and and so it it would be entirely in Combs.

Yes, so pio would be a part of comms pio would be funded under the communications department but would report directly to the mayor and

I mean, well, that's the mayor's choice, right? We can only say where it's funded. The mayor decides their job responsibilities and who they report to. But as of now, that position is the mayor's communications person and her PIO. So that would not change. This just determines, it just is where the money is allocated in the budget.

Okay, I'm just a little unclear then, why not have it in her budget then? I mean, so it's showing exactly, I mean, if that's... What's being spent to support her office? Yeah.

We can keep that as an open discussion item. Yeah, okay. No problem with that.

I'm just a little, you know, kind of fuzzy with that or unclear. You know, I support, like, with our comms, future comms person you know as being a PIO you know we have one mayor's office has one you know and and looking forward to them working well together but just kind of seeing how that would yeah okay we'll add it to our list of things we're still all questions and considering mr. Sousa

So I'll just go ahead and out myself as one that was really concerned about how this was being paid. And part of the reason for that was that my understanding or the way that I thought about my vote to create a communications department was presently it's a division under the mayor's office. And so on paper, it looks like we have an entire communications division that's set for one employee, when really the communications department is incredibly important to the entire city and all of the departments. from the level of funding that is allocated to that division, to me it made sense to move it as a department. And so it is an allocation question more than anything else because allocating the money to the communications department does not prohibit or preclude the mayor from hiring or doing anything. And if it's really important that the mayor have a person of that kind in the office, then she has a budget that she can do that with. And so in the past four years, there's been a lot of shifts in different positions that have been created in the mayor's office with her budget, depending on the needs that she has. And so I don't see

That would leave flexibility open for her by not putting that person in the department.

Is that what you're saying? Yes. And it keeps our budget as it was presented even in the tentative budget. It's just kind of pushing peas around a plate to put everybody in one bucket as opposed to dispersing it. So anyway, those were just my thoughts on that matter.

Thank you.

Ms. Housman.

Go ahead. And that helped clarify a little bit. And I guess not necessarily, I mean, I'm not saying the PIO is just the mayor's PIO. I mean, I know that the PIO right now, you know, Ms. Wood works for the entire city. I'm just kind of curious as why. And that clarifies some of that. Coms versus even like CAO budgets versus mayor.

Some of that, there was a facet that changed when we were formulating this, and that was Marcy's proposal and how that – ended up to be so we also wanted to try and because that created a department right so that will round out the department without hopefully adding the cost that it would have to hire a new director so yeah

I see this as being a little bit academic, this conversation, because the department heads report to the mayor. So whether they're reporting to the mayor as a department head or a member of her office, I don't know. But you make a good point. We did create this new department. Let's populate the department. Let's put the costs where the costs ought to be. I don't see it as being... is pulling away from the mayor's authority or the use of you know the employees. To me it's just you're right with the right people in the right departments and let the budget support the efforts. Miss Houseman go ahead.

You actually sort of capture what I was going to say earlier. We heard from Mr. Kelly that they're coming back next week with their recommendations for what the budget for this communications department. So I think that's, and again, today is just, do we want to put this on the short list? It feels kind of like a first reading, which is good practice. And so I just, I feel like we'll have more information when Mr. Kelly comes back with recommendations for the department's budget as well. Just more of a comment.

I think there's really only one more item, and that was a small portion of CWC funding coming out of non-departmental again, cleaning it up and reducing that small amount in non-departmental.

There's one more. Sorry. Oh, okay. Okay, last one on our list is the communications. Oh. department item as well. So the recommendation was to stop printing the monthly newsletter and to reduce the professional services for the videographers of the city to 15,000 instead of 43,000.

That's a hard call, leaving some in. It's just a tight budget year. It doesn't mean that those items are going to hold at that level or not, but there's a comfortable spot that we feel that in a tight budget year that

Yeah, we have had numerous discussions with the mayor and with communications department members and with everyone up here I would say this is one of our items that's in fluctuation right now one of the negotiating items There's been talk I mean there was an offer to print the newsletter quarterly instead And fund it up to that level. I think that's still a discussion and as it totally is decided in any way. And then also for professional services to put the $28,000 contract for the videographer into the council budget and use it from there or release as needed. And so those two are definitely still open items. that we would love feedback on or we'll figure out over the next week if this does move to the short list. So that's our proposal. And the budget details are attached to the back.

So Ms. Stroud has another question.

I didn't know if you were, but I had questions about that. Okay. So I... on so we'll start with the professional services for the videographer and that's I think you know Miss Nicole we kind of talked about we can put that into council contingency I just I think with us looking the council looking at having kind of a comms person that's working for seven people you know it's got to be a challenge I that this this could be something that we are looking to use as well I know with the Noel Bateman Awards, we've used Parker in the past. He's done a lot of videos and very high quality. And I think with us trying to elevate so that residents are aware of what we're doing and how we're here contributing to the city and educating on our form of government, some of the policy discussions that we're looking at, budgetary questions that we have, the large issues, that this may be something that we would want to use as well. And he is an incredible.

He's a rock star. He is.

And I've seen the quality of work that he's done with the city. I think with this one it would be really good to have a policy, you know, if we maintained the current level or even, you know, if we reduced it at all, is to have a policy on how he's used and to have that, I believe, Ms. Hauswin, you had used in your proposal with comms, you know, equitable, but looking at that. And, you know, I spoke with Liz before she left. And she just spoke very, very highly. They have a monthly CAM meeting, very highly of comms as a whole, of saying they were always willing to work with us. And I'm hoping that this new communications person will be able to step right into that position and that we can work together to be able to use that, because we are a department. you know the general plan I know that Parker did you know some great videos with the general plan bulk waste you know working with Public Works on that you know I'd like for you know the council to be able to kind of step in and and to use that as well you know to help educate residents so I I'd like for you to reconsider on that of keeping that funding and whether it's moved into our department. And I haven't even talked to Mr. Fratto on that. He may be over there going, what are you saying? But something to try to keep that level. you know so that we can jump right in and that that resource is available um the the other one you know kind of the newsletter uh last year you know which was a great question i'm not sure exactly who initiated it initiated bringing it up but taking from that standalone where it was every every door every mail something like that you know um and putting it into the the public utilities bill that was I mean, we saved, I want to say it was like $100,000 on that. I mean, that was great. great savings for the city you know and and and I think you know residents because then we're able to put it back in you know appreciated that even if they weren't aware that that's why we did that you know I'm wondering if going back to maybe it was quarterly to see what that looks like you know we may not I I have not personally heard from residents that are frustrated or upset that it's going into the public utilities bill you know that's so I mean it to me was a great move I do know that that when it is printed you know they do take it around to The senior center, libraries, some here at the city hall, they go around to the eight different assisted living facilities and drop those paper copies off to those residents. But wondering if there is more of that discussion about possibly looking at quarterly and then see what that looks like. I don't know exactly what that cost would be, but if we had something and if we had a significant amount of outreach saying, oh my goodness, I'm really missing it, it needs to be monthly or whatever that is, that at least we would have that That data point by saying we're just we're cutting down slowly on this. It's still available You're still talking about making available electronically, correct? Okay, so I mean that would be emailed if people have signed up for that. You can still go join the website So it's not eliminating entirely. It's just that paper copy. So yeah, I guess you know, maybe Consideration and I don't know, you know if you've had that discussion you just mentioned that maybe quarterly But I know we had talked about that. I don't know if you've discussed that with the administration or not, but maybe something to consider it's kind of an in-between and

And, you know, there was a citizen study survey that went out, and it was like overwhelmingly 80 or 85 percent said they wanted it electronically. And we know there's a senior population that probably really likes the tangible, put your hands on it. And I wouldn't want to cut that out, but it's something to talk about and for us to figure out.

And that's what I really appreciate. I mean, you know, looking at cost savings, it's, you know, last year when the budget came out, you know, the request was for department heads to come up with a one, two, and three percent, you know, reduction. This year it was two and four percent. You know, we're looking at trying to make these efficiencies you know, to be able to save taxpayer dollars. And that's, you know, so I mean, I have to applaud the effort of what you guys have done and looked into, you know, just wondering if there's something, if maybe it was just a small step down to see what that looks like for those that don't navigate online as well. I mean, I think of my father, who still does not understand the difference between messaging and email. You know, I sent you a message, and I pull it up. You didn't. Let me look at your phone. You didn't. Well, it was right here. And it said, you know, and he gives me my email address. I'm like, that's email. No, it's the same thing. It is not. So, you know, with an aging population, that that could be something that they really want. But once again, you know, trying to balance that out of savings on there. So, you know, maybe something. And then something else I kind of thought I think I brought up with you, Ms. Nickel, that when people were responding and overwhelmingly, because I remember that data, overwhelmingly saying that they prefer, and looking at cost savings on that, that they prefer an electronic version, but those are also people that are comfortable because that survey was done online. So they are comfortable. So even three times a year, I mean quarterly I think is, but just kind of my feedback on that.

Mr. Sousa.

So I had a question that I had forgotten to ask. Regarding the communication special programs reduction, The tentative budget shows that it would have been, you know, if we would have approved the tentative without this modification, it would have been $95,000. So this $45,000 reduction still leaves $50,000 in this particular item, right? And so, like, we've had this conversation before regarding the newsletter and, you know, funding and budgeting, and it's my understanding that if there's money in the budget that gets used for it, then the administration can choose how they want to allocate that.

Right?

And so there's still the potential for newsletters to potentially go monthly. If $45,000 is the cost annually and there's still $50,000 in there, I was just looking at what else gets spent out of that. And a lot of it is server costs, a lot of office supplies, and things like that in the special programs. And so there might be opportunities for administration to make other decisions regarding the remaining $50,000 in that.

Or print it in black and white.

So I just wanted to get across that this reduction does not necessarily defund a newsletter, and I think we all need to be aware of that as well, right? But it is a reduction, but there's still $50,000 in that line item. Okay, thank you.

Ms. Housman, go ahead.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I just want to circle back to the proposal around reducing the amount of video Funding for videos, I guess. One thing I didn't hear come up in the discussion is there is a way to use technology to generate the videos we need and do it far more efficiently in a far more cost-effective manner. And I'm just not sure what has been explored. And the reason I share that is because that's what I have been spending money on for my own work is using AI to be a partner in the video creation process. So we are still taking the talent that we have, but maximizing the tools that are now available to have that talent be applied in ways that only the talent can be applied, and the technology does a lot of the other lift. So we could actually still see if our measure is number of videos being produced, I believe there is a way to do that within the amount that's been provided if we think creatively and use tools that are out there. So I don't want us to assume that a reduction in cost is a reduction in quality or quantity. I think it's important that we look for ways to save costs and accomplish the outcomes. The outcomes are producing high-quality videos that help our residents understand what we are doing in the city, who we're honoring, to your point, how do their taxpayer dollars get spent, what are the services we provide. And so I really think there is, we've not yet tapped into it, at least that I'm aware of. Good point.

Thank you.

So while it feels like rehashing old territory, but the subject of the newsletter. It's funny how often this comes up. But we will keep having to revisit these issues of how to reduce cost to achieve what we want to achieve. That is not going to end. And so one of the things that one of the speakers earlier said is he asked us to focus on and prioritize core services. So I know because I've worked with this council for years that that is where our focus lies. Right. So when it comes to these other things I think we really have to get into the weeds about how to pare down the costs so we don't have to raise taxes in order to provide services to our population in Sandy. Regarding the newsletter, it's kind of interesting. I'm sure you guys have noticed. So many companies, utility companies especially, are trying to wean people off of mailed bills. So many of them will charge a fee. You want to get a paper bill? That's fine. It costs you three bucks. We ought to be working toward a goal because we spend tens of thousands of dollars mailing out bills. Tens of thousands of dollars mailing out notices for bulk waste pickup It's a huge cost for us. We we need to be working to get people away from that But when I last time I checked on the utility billing because I get mine electronically it's a So convenient. It's so awesome. And if you forget to pay it, they send you an email saying, you know, today's the day. I love that. So love that. Last time I checked, it seemed like at one time I checked and I asked how many residents were still getting a mailed utility bill. And I was shocked at how high it was. I want to say it was like 50% or something like that. It was way too high. I hope we can pare that down. There are so many advantages to someone to getting an electronic bill. The ease, the lower cost to them, you don't need to put a stamp on something and send it back. But it just occurs to me that even if 50% of our residents are getting a mailed bill which contains inside a newsletter, I'm going to say it, we would still get better coverage if we went back to the Sandy Journal. More people would get it. So it's just something to consider. That is not our decision to make, but it's an important one. It's just one of the costs that we need to dig into and continue to dig into it and make sure we're serving the need, but not at a cost that is greater than the one that we need to take on.

just to bring it all back. So those are the items we're proposing. We're suggesting using the fire tiller balance to do the offsets for that for the additional costs in some of these areas. And one thing that I want to address that is not part of this, but it keeps getting emailed to me, is the council chambers. That is not part of this proposal at all. Council chamber remodel has been planned since,

for 10 years?

When I was on the council in 2017, the first time, they had planned on it and started saving way before that. It's been on the docket for 10 or more years. And the funding being used for it is not taxpayer funding. The million dollar remodel, which it's really expensive to do anything in government, is all from the Arbor building rental fees that we're collecting. No taxpayer money is being spent on that. I just wanted to throw that out there because I've heard it a number of times over the last two days.

And it would be able to function better. It's going to be a multipurpose room other than this lifted dais thing that none of us really like. Mr. DeKaiser.

Thank you Madam Chair. If my discretionary funding goes up I'm going to buy a coat because I am freezing up here. So I'm like visibly shaking so sorry. I just want to make a few comments. I'll try and be brief. First this is the biggest budget item I've ever seen. It's very complex. It takes a bunch of things and reorganizes a bunch of things. It does a lot of transfers and things like that which I think is great. But I would like to see it more simple when it comes back. more like line by line items as we're moving money, that would clear it up a lot for me. I would be a no on moving it as is to the short list just because I oppose reducing the mayor's salary. I think that has terrible optics. I did some research on the legality of this, and it seems legal, but there was a legislative bill in the 2023 interim session that didn't make it to the floor to prohibit this. And I think actually in that year, West Jordan City was brought up. They passed an ordinance to prevent that from happening. So I think we should be very cautious about that. I want to note that to this time, well, not this time, maybe an hour and a half ago when I checked. We as a council received 93 emails from residents to preserve Central Wasatch Commission funding. I'm starting to feel like a box elder accounting commissioner. That is the most community input I have ever seen by a magnitude of tenfold. And so I will be opposed to that reduction despite still being a member I'm not really sure what the point would be if we're contributing nothing. And then finally, I don't support eliminating the historic Sandy barbecue funding. And so maybe there are parts of this which I support and maybe reluctantly can get passed, but it would need to be in a different format to account for those concerns. Thank you.

Can I address the legal piece?

So we did talk to both Tracy and Lynn, and we don't have any issues with the legality, and neither do they.

So we'll be going through these items one by one. You don't need to do a thumbs up thumbs down over all of it.

Madam chair may I make a response from administration. Go ahead. I will be really brief. We would also like brief comments by Susan Wood and Tom Ward Tom on the CWC and Susan Wood on the communications stuff. And I'm going to I swear I'm only going to take two minutes. OK. So on the consolidated fee schedule we support that on the consolidated staffing adjusting the mayor's wage down we do not support we feel freezing the wage would be more appropriate. at this time and then readjusting it for the new – for the new election coming up. Water operations, we don't – we oppose leaving the Wasatch Front – the Central Wasatch Commission. Fleet purchase, we actually support that. We think that's a good idea to – and by the way, we appreciate that Councilmember Christensen came and met with Martin and I a few days before all – this was all put together. And she shared most of this – not all of it because not all of it was yet. Mayor's office. Our understanding was that the PIO would go fully back into the mayor's office, the council would have a PIO fully and that the communications director would be fully funded and that's what Brian would become. In fact, we've been talking about moving the communications department out of the mayor's office because it would now be a department and to separate it from the mayor's office. as part of that whole process. Discretionary funding for the mayor, we support that. We think it needs to be higher, but we support it. Moving this $95,000 into the CAO budget, we support. It's one of our most important lobbyists. Increase the discretionary funding for the council members, totally support. Personally, I think you don't have enough discretionary funding. You used to have more. All the community events, we don't oppose moving money into the different events. In fact, we should have done that in the tentative budget. We didn't do that. We oppose the $14,950 being removed from it. We oppose eliminating the Sandy Barbecue. The Heritage Festival and the Sandy Barbecue are different. They have different purposes. The barbecue is a neighborhood event. The Heritage Festival is a citywide event multicultural for the residents of Sandy. The communications department, printing the monthly newsletter, we oppose lowering that. We believe in a printed newsletter. Susan will indicate some of those reasons. Professional services, again, we oppose that too. We believe that the videos are very productive for our residents and help them understand what we're doing. Non-departmental, same thing we've already talked about. So I'm done now. And if Tom could come down first and then Susan.

Okay, can I ask a clarifying question? Sure. Can I ask one clarifying question? Yes, ma'am. When you said that you don't support the salary adjustment until the next election, you mean in three years, right? Yes.

Correct, yes. Freeze it and then adjust it before the next election so that the candidates coming in know what it is.

Yeah, no COLA, no merit.

Thank you, Madam Chair. Several of you, a few of you asked me about my support for the Central Water Statutory Commission. How does it benefit the Public Utilities Department, obviously the Water Department? I'm not a fan of all the things they do, but by and large, it is an extremely great value to be a part of that organization. Let me mention a couple of them. For eight years, I was a watershed manager for Salt Lake City. And personally, I cleaned that toilet there where the bus picks up at the mouth of the canyon. And it was overflowing across the parking lot into the creek in the water that we drink. And the way the treatment works is it's not, if you don't pollute it, you don't have to remove it. And when you remove it, it's percentage. So if you ever saw this Caddyshack movie and they threw the little thing in, that's what I used to do with the third graders is show them, would you rather have that little tutti in there or not in there? Just a visual exhibit of something that benefits us for a plant that we're going to be building. Metro's going to rebuild their plant, and it's going to be somewhere between $600 million to maybe $1 billion. If you add on the next treatment train to do full removal of a high-polluted stream, that's probably another 20%. What's that? About $100 million, $200 million, and our share of that is 20% to 30%. So that's just one, counting the dollars on the watershed front side of that. The partnership side of that is there are many things to be solved. And in answer to the time, Chair, the Central Wasatch National Recreation Act, I get the acronym messed up. There's a couple of things happening. I was with Salt Lake City, worked for Ralph Becker and Leroy Hooten and Jeff Niemeyer when the first round came around. And we had a lining of stars. And it's kind of rare that that happens. And the first time someone mentioned that to me, I said, there's no way in heck this is going to happen under the current administration. And they said, why don't you think ahead two to four years? The work we do now, if there's a change in the administration and Congress that allows this to move forward between our delegation, if that's when we decide to make the change, we will be behind the gun and won't even be ready. And that's a huge benefit, not just to Sandy and Salt Lake and our watershed, but there were land trades for the resorts, Alta and Snowbird. I know those general managers personally. Mike Mon is leaving Alta, and I've heard that they are now in. The four resorts are in. And that was one of the things I saw. There's no way in heck this is going to move forward without the resorts being in. Those are just two of many reasons. So there's lots of other reasons like, oh, not my favorite project or investment. But I think it's of value to Sandy City. And being at the table, if you're not at the table, you're on the table. So that's my two cents. Thank you very much for your time.

OK, Susan.

Hello, council. With all due respect to you all, I'm the public information officer for the city of Sandy. I do things to inform and educate our residents in particular about programs, initiatives, projects going on within the city. For example, when we need a new fire station headquarters, we want our public to know why. We want our public to know how much it will cost them when we put this up for a bond election. We need to inform the public so they, as educated residents, can help all of us make the right decision. Another example, annexation. When the deadline's approaching based on legislative action, that they will be annexed or not, but the only time for them to make a choice is by this deadline. My goal is to educate. Look what happened as a result. My job is not just to work for the mayor. Although I do, she's our executive Administrator well, no, I guess Shane is you know what I'm she's a leader My job is to educate and inform our residents. I represent our city in the poll that mr I've mentioned this was done by flash vote, which all you know is administered electronically In that poll 61% said that they prefer their information electronically 58% said they prefer it in print and Now you're asking those don't add up to 100%, right? That's because it's tell us the forms of communication that you utilize. This is nerve-wracking. Second, I was looking at the figures for Parker, who produces the quality of video that a robot cannot do. Professional services for the work that he produces would cost, for the videos that we've done, $166,000 per year. He charged us 21% of that professional market rate. Video is king. In a world where communications is the most important thing that you do, you want to appeal to all the senses, if not all, as many as you can. When you appeal to sight, sound, visual, you're touching people. You're giving them something memorable. And I would hate to see that go. And I can't produce what Parker does. Thank you.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Any more comments before we move on to the next proposed budget amendment?

Ms. Stroud, go ahead. a lot of talking on this one um i i'd missed so the historic barbecue and and that's i mean that is your neighborhood so i'm really kind of defaulting a lot to it um you know and i understand you're taking from from 10,000 to 5,000, and then combining the two. And I'm wondering what that 5,000, if you were envisioning something, if it was something like before Heritage Festival, that it was a historic breakfast for those, or if it was just increasing everything. And I'm just curious what you were envisioning from going from Heritage Festival, now adding money to it. And you can get back with me. I mean, maybe it wasn't specific.

No, it's just the Heritage Festival was the original festival in historic Sandy. It was a full meal before, and then it was only for historic residents. It was not a citywide event until the last few years, which I think is great, but it's more expensive, right? So they eliminated the food aspect, which eliminated... the residents of the neighborhood coming, for the most part. And then added the barbecue. I don't care which one, what we call it, or what's done. I think that they're easily integrated into one another. I don't even care what time it is. That's totally the mayor's call. It's just making one event instead of two. Or with the same budget, if you still want to do two, you just don't serve dinner, which you won't get as much. participation. It just depends on that. But there's not, it's not specific to one or the other. I just picked the one that had been there the longest.

And I was just wondering what you were, if you had a plan of saying, because now you're adding $5,000 to what was allocated for heritage.

That's what's typically spent at the summer barbecue is about $15,000 to do the dinner. And so I was just putting enough money to do one dinner instead of one dinner and nothing.

Yeah, I was just curious of how, so, you know, still, I mean, they could still provide something and, okay, okay. And then also just talking about CWC, We've we've had this discussion for years. I mean, I think even you know when we were on the council before and it fluctuated I think at one point we were a hundred thousand and then it was ninety thousand You know maybe down to 45 at one point and it really has kind of gone all over the place You know hearing you know, mr. Ward make some good points to it. If it was a reduction, I definitely wouldn't want to lose the input that we have there, but also looking at taxpayer dollars and being responsible for that and good stewards on that. Maybe there's a little bit of a tapering off. I don't know. And a lot of those emails, and I haven't gone through all of them, I think are duplicate, and a lot of them are form emails, at least the emails that I received, seem to be from some sort of, I don't want to say a mailing list, but something like that, because they are almost identical. But it is something that people are... Concerned with you know and sandy, you know being right here, you know close, you know But maybe it was a this year and the next year unless something we get that legislation or we can see more progress Okay Moving on. So, mr. DeKaiser You have a budget amendment proposal

Well, thank you, Madam Chair. I'll keep it simple. Just looking to fund a grant writer position. I've been thinking about this over the term of my tenure and kind of surprised that we don't have one. I think the city has done a great job of different departments, especially the fire department has that one employee who's like a miracle grant writer. And it's awesome. But there are other departments that would like to use her services and can't or don't. Grant writing distracts from a lot of duties that people have in the city. And just doing some research on what other cities are doing versus historically what Sandy has done, there's a lot of money I feel like we're leaving on the table. And so I really tried to choose an item for this budget that would speak to the council and benefit the city as a whole. And I think a grant writer position is the ticket. I've met with every department head and received great feedback on how this could help their departments. And in doing some additional research in the literature, it's true that there's more grant money being available to municipalities, and you need to have the infrastructure and administration to be able to get awarded those grants. And so for me, this is kind of similar to the real estate position. We're kind of freeing up everyone's duties. Not that the people writing grants now won't work with the grant writer, but to have someone whose expertise that is to centralize that and manage everything on behalf of the city would behoove us to earn four or five times money in grants what the city has historically gotten. And then it sets us up with the... the institutional abilities to seek more and more grant money and be awarded those over time. That, it's funded, I deferred to the budget committee and they recommend postponing that money from the fire tiller truck just as a one time for this year because next year it will be like how IT operates, different departments contributing their amount based on a study of how it all played out in the previous year. So that's what I have.

Questions? Ms. Nichol.

So I think the idea is really good. I'm hesitant to add another FTE, full benefits. I think maybe like for the first year, if we could look at a contract, contracting with a person rather than hiring an FTE when our budget is tight and funding it with one-time sources. I know you addressed the ongoing need, but that's the way I'd like to see it. Otherwise, great. Good job. Thank you.

Ms. Housman.

Thank you, Madam Chair. When I've seen this work in other settings, there's accountability for that person to replace at the minimum. They produce enough through the grant writing to cover that. their position. I'm not comfortable in a similar way. I'm not comfortable with funding this as an ongoing FTE with all that comes with it. I do see the value that this role would bring. I would like to see it in a similar vein. Perhaps contract is the right. I'll let you kind of think about that. But I would like to see if this were to come back, I would like to see what are the measures by which we are evaluating this person's ability to secure funding for the city and at a minimum securing enough that would cover the cost of the position, but obviously a much higher bar. So what would the reporting look like? What would success criteria look like? What are the evaluation criteria by which we will determine they are absolutely generating what you forecast will be? But I don't want forecasting. I want some hard measures of how we will know this is successful. So until we have that, I'm very hesitant to go with an FTE, but I think it's a great idea, and I would love to explore what does it look like to have a contract position that I'm a huge fan. I've heard me say this many, many times, outcomes-based contracts. I believe in them. I think this is a great model for that. They get paid when they generate contracts. you know, grants for the city. So it would need, in my opinion, to be some type of outcomes-based contract. They meet certain thresholds. They generated through grant writing what we need, and that is now offsetting our costs, and that is when payment kicks in, is proof of concept, proof of outcomes. That would be what I would really strongly encourage over FTE.

Mr. Sousa. Thank you. I guess my first question was kind of addressed over here too, and that was with the area that you were proposing to fund it from, it is a one-time source. And we've heard over and over, you know, you can't use a one-time source for ongoing funding. With the FTE situation, that would be my question, is that the right source, being a one-time funding mechanism for an ongoing FTE? But at the same time, I like the idea of a potential contract to prove The usability, you and I talked about this. Generally, I support the addition of this grant writer position. One of the very first thing that I did with some of my discretionary funds as a council member was I enrolled in one of the grant writing classes that some of the other employees enroll in. And the one thing that I learned is that grant writing is a lot more difficult than just pulling up a website and typing a response. And one of the bigger things that you have here, which I agree with, is the post-award compliance oversight. That is a large reason why people don't apply for grants, because the oversight and compliance for the grant can sometimes be so cumbersome that you don't even apply for the grant, right? So to have somebody dedicated to do that would free up resources and maybe allow for more grants. So I do support the idea of this, and I do think that it could be beneficial. But I think it might be really interesting to try it in a one-time maybe contract and then evaluate, is this something that we could do going forward, and then find a more permanent funding mechanism for it. Those are my comments.

Ms. Stroud. Thank you, Madam Chair. And I love this idea. I mean, there are grants out there. I mean, that's, I think, the fire department at Whitney. Whitney? Yes, Chief? I mean, she's done a great job with that and gotten money that has been able to be used within the department that we didn't have access to before. I think the benefit of keeping those grants knowledge specific departments you know those those individuals and they can work in partnership you know with a grant writer that would be great uh i i do like the idea of um you know saying okay is this something that we are able to continue you know are the grants is the person able to bring in the money um and i think i mean looking at this here it probably wouldn't be too tough for somebody working as a grant to be able to cover this. I know a couple years ago, I think maybe three years ago, my sister-in-law, who works for the Department of the Interior, and she had talked about that there's all this water money out there. And I had no idea. I'm like, I don't know what you're talking about. She's like, Sandy should be applying for this. And I know Mr. Ward, you know, it's you know, that's kind of his department with that, but I'm like, oh, you know, if we had somebody, that would be great, but looking at maybe what a contract, excuse me, what a contract would be would be great.

Oh, my gosh.

So I'm going to kind of align to a degree with what's been said. I think it would be great to prove out the theory. If the assertion is that the position will pay for itself, at $163 for the cost of a full-time employee, I think it would be great to do it under contract and prove that out. Now I also want to be consistent with a vote that I cast last year and I was in the minority but this is the second year in a row that in order to balance a budget we have laid employees off. So I would not vote in favor of adding an FTE in an environment where we have laid people off, some people having worked here for 40 years. I mean, if we're gonna spend $163, let's hire one of those people back. Yeah, isn't that what I said? Oh, yeah. So I think this is a great idea for another year. And I would support it. And I would, hey, it's easy for me. It pays for itself and then some. I'm your girl. But I would love to do it under a contract to prove out, to make a test case and prove it out another year, not this year.

Well, thanks, everyone, for the feedback.

All right, Ms. Stroud, you also have two budget amendment proposals.

I do. Thank you. I think the first one was the down payment assistance one. So I have two of them. This first one is looking for seed funding kind of a request. So if we were to be doing like a regular first reading, second reading, this is almost like the pre first reading you know it revitalized down payment assistant program we sandy in 2009 had a program and this would be looking at bringing that back you know mr. Fratto worked with a kind of at a very superficial high level with RDA and identified the area that we could do this, which would be the South Town Ridge increment. There's currently about $7 million in that account and that needs to be used within the next three years. So I am hoping that we can secure $300,000 of that. Over the last 11 months, I want to say we started with the workshops in July, maybe August, almost the past year, we've really taken a look as the council at what it's going to take to bring homeowners, home buyers here in Sandy, and some different things that we can do as a city. And a lot of that is focused around development, or looking at ADUs, if there's something that we can do within community development to try to cut back on some of the costs and the overhead that's going into creating more housing because we have a housing shortage within the Valley and within Utah as it is. One thing that I've heard time and time again is that we really want to have this opportunity, and we want people to be homeowners and not just renters, you know, if they have that. So a couple of things on this, and there's a couple of questions that have been brought up. So in the proposal itself, what was attached is what the, so the Own and Sandy Housing Program Guidelines, that's the old one. There were some questions of going, oh, well, there's $5,000 in this three-year period. But all of that is what the old program was. So the new program, I haven't worked that out yet. I haven't spoken with Casey directly. This would kind of be a way to let administration know that, hey, as the council, I'd like to be working with RDA. to come up with what the guidelines and what the program would look like. But I'd like to do that with input and direction from the council in order to create that. Because if you look, it will have a chart of saying this is what the old program looked like. And one of the challenges was that it needed to be a new build. There's not too many brand new builds that we have here in Sandy. So that could be something that we're looking at saying, it doesn't have to be new. Another requirement was that it had to be a single family home. And many of the new builds, especially a lot of the rezones that we have done, are not necessarily single family homes. So we could look and say, well, maybe it is for multi-family homes. One requirement of using RDA money is that there is a low to moderate income, that LMI income guideline to it. So something that was not included in here is, is there a housing cap? And I would be looking specifically at that LMI. Somebody who is at that 80% LMI isn't going to qualify for a million and a half dollar home. They'd have to have 20 kids. I mean, they're not going to qualify for that. So I'd be using that kind of as a guideline. Some other discussion points that I've had, like with Mr. Fratto, is saying, well, how much money? In the previous program, it was $5,000. But I think I would like to have it more impactful. $5,000 in today's market is not much. It's really not a lot. So to increase that, there could even be a portion where then it's a match after that. So up to this amount could be if you qualify. And then an additional amount, it is matching. Let's see, I think there was one other question that somebody had asked. Oh, if this needed to be in the South Town Ridge increment area, and it does not. It just needs to meet that LMI requirements in order to qualify and for us to use that funding. So just once again, kind of looking at seed funding, I don't have to, you know, it would be nice to have it allocated in this budget and then to be able to work on that, reaching out to council members, working with staff, working with RDA, you know, in order to kind of develop this and craft it and let's see what we get. You know, but a way to give an individual something to be able to move forward to get into a home.

Questions?

questions miss Christensen I like this a lot especially when it's based on the LMI and especially thinking about the historic sandy building project that we talked about a couple weeks ago I think those two in combination could work really well together in incentivizing families to live in sandy so I I'm a yes on that, to further pursue it to see what the program would look like.

And that's when it would be coming back, you know, for, you know, once I had it, you know, feedback.

Ms. Nichol. Thank you. Have you talked to Casey yet?

Mr. Frato has talked with Casey and that's and and this is something that we can use RDA money for and that's why I'm kind of here right now That if if we can allocate this then that you know letting administration know be working with And are there other restrictions on that funds or those funds tagged for something else do you know I So I think that there was kind of a loose idea of using a possibly using some of it for Monroe. But that's you know it's seven million. So with this with three hundred thousand we get maybe a little bit more a little bit less you know with Monroe. But this is this is something qualifying and I think it's something that council has been discussing and very intently and deliberately and I think this would be a good use for a small fraction of that money.

Yeah, I like it. And the fact that it's coming from the RDA, not general fund, I think is really important for people to know. And it's really not a subsidy. I think there should be like some time limits on how long they have to live in the home to encourage home ownership, possibly put the money towards a specific item such as closing costs or rate buy down that will really genuinely help these people get into the home because those are some of the big barriers rather than just here you go. You know what I mean?

So that's and those are great. I mean, you know looking at that I mean one of the suggestions in here is that Before it was a you know, the forgiveness period kind of of this loan of this grant was three years But to have it deed restricted for maybe ten years We had talked about some longer time frames on that and that the money could be used for closing costs down payment buy down, you know anything at that very beginning and in order to get somebody that first hurdle into the home.

Okay, thanks.

Mr. Sousa.

Thank you. So yeah, I really like this too. I think that it has some really positive attributes. I had some of the similar questions about the RDA area. Did it have to be used? You've answered that. The rest of the money in the bucket and the fact that that RDA project area has sunsetted and funds have to be used and dispersed and the amount. So for me, This would be an easy one. Outside of some of the program specifics which you talked about, I'll just kind of give a couple of my high level thoughts on that. So the state has a program similar to this right now, where they will offer $20,000 to a new home buyer for down payment. There's caveat, like the criteria, not the qualifications, but the criteria with which it can be used is really limiting to the point that the state still has a lot of money sitting there, from what I understand, because nobody can access it because the requirement presently is that the home has to be a new build only and under $450,000, which doesn't meet There aren't new homes being built at 450 or less. Even really small homes in a lot of areas cost more than that. And so this would need to be more accessible, right? Because it doesn't make sense to have money sitting in a pot that nobody can access just to say, hey, we have this thing. I don't think that there should be a cap on purchase price. I think the income requirement kind of takes care of the purchase price, right? I don't know if there was a loan consideration, but I don't think there should be, like FHA versus conventional. A lot of first time home buyers don't necessarily go FHA. And there are new, I'm not a lender, but in working with the lenders that I've worked with, there are different scoring things that came up in the last couple of years that maybe increase interest on an FHA loan because of certain factors with credit score and debt to income and things like that that didn't exist before. And so it's more advantageous sometimes for first-time homebuyers to go conventional. The down payment, they're still going to need a down payment. And even on a conventional, I think it can be like as low as 3.5%, 5%, something like that. So it's not just 20. They'd have mortgage insurance. But what I was going to say is using it for the different things, I think I actually like just calling it down payment assistance because it's definitely for the home. But they have to have a down payment to get into the home. And so that... Well, I guess maybe I need to think about that. So bring that back. Because I was going to say, if they have money for a down payment, then that money can be used for closing costs. In order to get into a home, they're going to need closing costs and down payment. And if they want to take some of the money they had saved for a down payment and now throw that towards the closing costs, that's typically how it's done. And so that's why I think maybe a down payment type program could work better. I had questions about loan versus grant. And with the state's program, it's a loan, but it's not paid back until the home is sold or refinanced with equity. And so the loan gets recorded as a lien to the property. And then when it's sold or refinanced, then that process allows the loan to be paid back. And if it's offering home ownership and longevity, maybe there's an opportunity to say, if you live in a home for x amount of years, Even a refinance, though. So that's kind of a tricky thing. But I think that we should consider trying to help people and then refill this pot with money that we've already given to try to continue it long term. But I like it. Ms. Houseman.

Thank you, Madam Chair. I like it as well. The one question I have, as this were to come back and you do get a chance to sit down and speak with Casey We've heard a lot of proposals recently around RDA and different ways to reinvest in our community, and I just love all of the brainstorming that's happening. What I've not yet heard is some kind of a... prioritization exercise where we are hearing all of these potential ways and mapping them against what do we actually have. And if we meet everything, great. But if what we have available does not quite cover all of the things we are considering, then what might a prioritization exercise look like? What's most critical? And maybe everyone else knows that, and I missed the boat somewhere. But I just, that's a curiosity I have, is I think this is a, I really, really like this. I just am curious as to where it fits in with some of the other things that are being brought forward for consideration. Again, some are things that we've not yet even talked about publicly, but there's just a lot of RDA conversations happening. So that's all I would ask.

I would like to see this fleshed out as well.

Sounds like you have a lot of support for this.

I'm curious about, I mean the qualifications and the eligibility is one thing that obviously would, that takes a lot of work to bring back a proposal on that. Curious about from the administration's point of view, who and how are we going to manage this program, right? So if you could kind of give us a view on that. Will it mean that we have to hire someone to manage and administer and manage this program? Or does administration feel we can handle it otherwise? I would love to see it as a loan rather than a grant program. That does mean we get the ability to help more people, especially if it becomes – having a brief discussion with you, I thought once again we were limiting the amount to $5,000, but if the proposal is going to be a lot higher, then I would love to be able to recoup the money at some – reasonable and identified period of time. It could be a long-range one. I don't have anything in mind to reuse it for the same purpose. Use taxpayer funds to help as many taxpayers as we possibly can rather than a grant program if we can possibly pull that together. Anyway, so I like that too. Okay.

Perfect. Thank you. You know, it sounds, I mean, there's obviously lots of questions. Like I say, this is like the little half step to it. You know, but it sounds like we're feeling, you know, fairly comfortable in looking at this. I'll start working with RDA to kind of flesh out what the program itself, you know, requirements, you know, looking at, you know, great feedback, you know, from everyone, you know, on that and get those answers. It's hopefully this will be a you know a great thing and you know We get that that money kind of allocated to the side and get a program up and running so appreciate that. I So the second item that I have, you know, and this is a, you know, so it's, and the title, you know, so funding for water-wise park strip replacements adjacent to city parks. And that one, you know, with a park strip, because that was more of a, I think a common term that people understand what a park strip is, but it wouldn't have to be limited to a park strip. So there's been a couple small changes that I'll kind of throw out to the council on this one. What this really came from, that's Utah, we live in a desert. We're aware of that, second driest state in the United States. A desert, one of the definitions of a desert is less than 10 inches of rainfall a year. Last Thursday, as I was kind of working on this, I ran across an article on my phone. Governor Cox declares state of emergency for Utah's drought. It's in response to the worsening drought conditions that are statewide. Altogether, 22 of Utah's 29 counties are in what's called an extreme drought. We've seen some pretty high temperatures, and we've known this for quite a while, but it's one of the worst droughts in history. We can't control the weather, but we can control how we respond to using some of our water. There's water districts all over the state that are requesting, and we've seen this for many years, requesting for businesses, for residents, for cities, watch how you're using your water. Be cautious of it. It's something that even myself, when I wash my hands, I turn on the water and I turn it off. And just that little tiny bit of water, every many times you wash your hands in the day, I'm like, well, there's a small amount that I'm doing. You know, Ms. Jarkey, I know that you had talked about, you know, with park strips, you know, looking at that and the amount of water and watering an area of turf that really is not super functional for playing on. So when we talk about parks, if you go to a park, you know, we need larger fields to play soccer, to play lacrosse, you know, baseball, football, any of that that we're doing in these large grass areas. But there are areas Park strips is one of them. But there are areas that we have turf in just because that's what we planted. You know, there are areas along Porter Walkwell Trail. So looking areas throughout the city. And as a city, we also ask residents to conserve water. we can lead out on that as well. And the idea behind this is to say, this is what we've done to try to find high use areas where we have residents that are walking, that are visiting, that are seeing if we had kind of a demonstration instead of just going to Segal Lily Gardens, but having something and going, oh my goodness, look at that orange plant over there. That looks great. And having an example as they're using these areas and walking by to say, I could do that in my yard as well. I could do that in my park strip. And so it's an example of what can be done that the city is leading out. Hey, residents, we are asking you to be cognizant of your water use, but we are doing that as well. So it really is just a way for us to show residents that we have skin in the game, and we're not just asking them to do something that we haven't made active steps in trying to control what we are doing as well. And there's a lot of different areas. I haven't specified in here specific areas, thinking that parks. public utilities, administration, can provide that input and that insight and give some of those areas to us where we can look at that, but I don't have any area specifically in mind. What did kind of come to mind with part of it, but I'm not directing any of that, is the new recreation center. If there's area up there that we were going to be just putting in turf or rock, rock is hot and doesn't always look aesthetically fantastic, but could we be putting in some local scapes? some of that xeriscaping, not zero, where it's the rock, but the xera, X-E-R-I, and the localscapes. While we don't have anything already down, it's going to be a new area. Let's put it down and do this in an aesthetically appealing, water aware state so The the other thing that I did want to talk about on this so originally I had looked at where would I find funding and because Primarily I was looking at parks and trails, you know to look within the parks department of the budget They so under the playground which and I know when I sat down with mr. Fratt always says you're not gonna like this But looking, so playground, the Parks Department had requested $350,000 for playground replacements. The budget, and in the tentative budget, is proposed for $500,000. So it was some increased funding going there. So that's where I started from. Ms. Nichol, after speaking with you, I believe you had said, well, what about within public utilities? And that's that was honestly something I hadn't really even thought about I thought about you know that that parks would be partnering with public utilities You know to be able to come up, you know using the amazing Nikki Wyman You know of looking at some of the design You know and and ideas on that But it would be going in at one of our parks or one or next to one of our trails But there is you know we do have you know in fund 5100 you know there's there's a you know money in that and a lot of that money is is earmarked and you know i believe even in in your proposal is looking as trying to add money to water main infrastructure replacement so you know there's a possibility of looking at one of the two it could be a combination of both you know maybe it's uh you know for the actual the plants and the install is going to come from parks funding or the parks budget and then public utilities could be the signage and marking and development of the plans. So there's kind of a couple different possibilities and I'm open to suggestions, to preference. If this is something the council sees value in, And moving forward, if it comes from parks, if it comes from public utilities, or it comes from a combination of both. I see the value in this of leading out and showing residents what can be done, as well as being water conscious and water aware.

Miss Nichol.

Thanks for explaining the funding source on there. I like the idea, and I like the idea of just removing the terms park strip into any type of landscaping. And thank you for not saying hardscaping replacement, because that's more detrimental than anything else. So with WaterWise and what we can do, I like. I think that was my only comment.

With the additional funding sources that you know, you could look at talked about I think that even better Mr. Sousa, thank you Yeah, I I like the concept I don't love where you have suggested to pull money from and I don't think I could get behind that The the playground replacement is important and one of the things that I've been advocating for is additional funding for the shade structures Which we got one And I was told that future park installments will include those shade structures, but they're unfortunately and crazy costly from the standpoint. So I wouldn't want to take away from funding for the replacement to ensure that we start upgrading our equipment with those shade structures. But if there's other funding sources that may be available, I could probably get behind something else. I'm like a huge localscapes nerd. And when I first became a council member, I advocated. I went kind of go big or go home. And I ended up going home because I went too big. And I wanted to go. I wanted to turn. one of our main parks into this demonstration garden that was more functional than just sago lilies, like here's an example of this, where you have your functional turf, and you've got your irrigation set up, and you've got hardscaping walking paths and whatnot. Fun fact, I even bought Dan Medina, our previous parks director, a book that Utah the State University puts out called Combinations for Conservation. So if you didn't leave it behind, I will get you one. It's really amazing with all of the native local plants because it gives you really incredible combinations that give you blooms all year in all of the different seasons. Anyway, it's like a brainless thing. It's great. So I like this. I think that there's opportunity to, and this is, you're talking about existing park strips, correct? I think it would be nice to try. I know that we have, you know, you're kind of, right now our park strips require a lot of maintenance and water, right? And you've got to go and mow them. Hopefully this is less maintenance, but it's not no maintenance, right? Because as we see around the city and Council Member Sharkey with your proposal. More maintenance, right? It can be, right? And over time, it becomes more. It just does. And so I am interested in this, but I would like it to be done right. And I think it would be great if we can incorporate more than. I love what we have done in the parks department with our park strips, but it would be great if it were just more than one flume of grass. So that's my comment. Thank you.

Ms. Housman?

Thank You madam chair, I I will actually keep it pretty brief because councilman D'Souza said similar things There's there's several patterns to constituent outreach that we all receive and and one that I've received quite a bit in district 4 is relative to maintenance of Areas that are shared spaces that have been converted to to try to save water and and other things and and yet they have fallen into See disrepair is not the appropriate word But they just feel a little neglected and so I was just gonna kind of echo this this idea of I'd love to see a maintenance plan not just the the conversion plan, but the maintenance plan and and hear directly from our parks department as to what that lift looks like. I think that's valuable information. But I love the vision of modeling, like, you know, residents coming upon examples of things. Oh, I might try that. I honestly hate my park strips. I hate them. That's a strong word. Sorry, but... And we're just constantly fighting weeds. It does not matter all of the weed netting we put down. And I know I'm not a gardener, so I'm sure I am at fault here. But anyway, sorry, I talked more than I intended to. I'm just echoing. I need more information around the strategy for maintenance.

Ms. Christensen. Yeah. And I really like this proposal. That was my question as well. Just the cost of maintenance and then just making sure we include the cost of moving the sprinklers and putting in drip systems and all that type of stuff into our cost for doing each of the strips.

So we've been doing this for years and I know you're aware of it because Dan's been reporting on it. So last year we spent thirty thousand dollars doing this. So this is parks trip and median conversions. We've been allocating funds every single year. It's been projects by the parks department and they've been working through a budget and every year they've been spending down. We have in 2028 four hundred and fifty thousand dollars earmarked for this. So I I think I think we're covering the need in future budgets. I don't I would not. You're proposing to move from one parks budget to another parks budget. I'd rather invest in the playgrounds right now knowing that the parks has been working on this project and has has proposals to increase the funding for that. So I think Parks has been doing a good job and hopefully they'll find more money and more time on the Sandy Rec Center by the way. I asked for a landscape plan and Ben was nice enough to get it to me because the constituent had asked about what we were doing there. So we are using all rock mulch, shrubs, trees, The only grass that's being installed is being installed around two sides of the pool for seating because it's used for seating We'll be doing drip irrigation. We'll be doing Leak sensors will be doing everything that is all planned that is all included not to worry about the sandy rec center That one is definitely water wise on steroids. So except you said rock mulch

i think we could do and to add in a little more where it is that softscape versus the hardscape and yes we do have that in the budget for 2028 although we are in this severe drought right now in 2027 if we're counting the budget right now so this would just be moving some of it forward It could also with this is if we have the money set aside this year there there's potential of you know federal money state money coming forward as Grants and we typically need to have that seed money to receive those grants so we could have some of it set aside and then just like with the the Utah water wise waterways where you can replace your toilets and be reimbursed on that and know or residents could do the flip your strip you can do the the automatic sprinkling system timers where it has the rain delay on there you know this there are possible reimbursements for the cities as well and so I'm hoping to even kind of replenish it but often that means starting with we have grant seed money already in it so I'm hoping to get kind of this year jump on it you know moving forward and that's I mean so Hopefully that answered a lot of your questions. I am hearing some of that interest of looking more at public utilities, whether it's entirely, and I am completely open to what that looks like, or if it's more of a split. I work with kids. I mean, I definitely want playgrounds. We had two of them this last year back with Mr. Medina. I had a resident send me where the slide was gone. I mean, it was just gone. There was like this eight foot drop off. And you know, I went to that park, you know in district 2 looked at it a couple of weeks ago And we've just put up where it was like a tic-tac-toe. So I mean, it's you know, that park is is struggling You know, so I can definitely see the need of making sure we are on top of our playgrounds equipment And once again, it was just what they had asked for looking there but then with the you know, the suggestion of looking at at the the waterfront and I I love that, so that seems to be a little more kind of where we're headed, but a little more into that. Looking forward to bringing back some more information and some adjustments to this.

OK. So that takes us through the presentation of the council members' budget amendments. This is a voting item. Although I want to be sure people understand this isn't a binding vote that's happening tonight. This is just our agreement on whether we're going to add this to a hopper next week for final consideration before the budget adoption. So our policy says we take public comment on council voting items. We have a lot of cards. I'm sorry, you guys, I wish I had kept these in order, and I apologize in advance. I don't think they are in order, but we'll make sure all of you have a chance to speak. So the first card that I've got is Greg LeClair. Greg still here? Come on down. Greg, when you start speaking, you'll have three minutes.

Thank you, Mayor, Council. I just, this goes back a little bit in the conversation tonight, but there was quite a discussion about discretionary funds and being compensated for, and bear with me, I'm trying to remember all my thoughts. being compensated for monies that you're spending. And by all means, I totally agree that you should be reimbursed for those funds that you're doing. And also, I did have a question about when you set up your new year budget, do you set goals? And do you know what buckets or targets you're going after as a council member and monies that you may need for training for those different functions that you may want to get a little more skilled up on. So that was one question I had. I know the chief administrative officer, I'm learning these new acronyms tonight, Shane mentioned and some other folks mentioned on the salary of the mayor. That came up in the election this past fall. I'm really tired of hearing about it because this came up past the current mayor. If you remember, we had a gentleman in there that took over for four months. And he's the one that raised his salary or had a lot of input. I remember it jumped up pretty substantial. So that happened, what, five years ago plus? So that's something to take into consideration. I was glad to hear that Shane mentioned the CAO that they're not for reducing that. I think it would look really bad, and I think it would look really bad of what was talked about in the campaign that we went through. I happened to come to the council meeting shortly after the election, and it was... it was a nasty campaign and that topic is out there and people are going to talk about like well that's just bad feelings and we're going to reduce their salary i'd say just leave it alone if you need more money to be compensated for your discretionary funds i'm all for that i come from a sales background so i totally understand budgets i understand setting budgets and i understand that The first question I've had when I've changed companies over the years is, well, what's my budget? Because I know I have a target. If I need more money for that budget, we'll make it work. If I can go get $100,000 sale, they're going to work with me. So if something like that comes out, I think that's just some things to think about. But I appreciate your time tonight. It's been a long meeting for all. But thank you for letting me share a few comments.

Thank you. This isn't a long meeting for us. We set records. Pat Jones.

Thank you. Excuse me. This has been very enlightening. It kind of makes me think about all the discussions here has been really, really respectful to each other. I've been thinking about, boy, with my husband and I, when we have a discussion on budget, like I want to have carpets to be redone right now, and he's not for it. I mean, I would hear voices raising, the tone. There's nothing here. I really appreciate this. And I particularly appreciate the fact that you actually Both of you who have, Chris Christensen and Chris Nicol, have actually taken up the time to reach out and discuss with the administration and work together. That's great. I really enjoyed that. Thank you. And I want to make a few things that this year's budget is tight. And for you both of you to bring up a proposal like this, and like Mr. DeKaiser said, it is the most really big proposal I have seen, and covers many, many aspects. Thank you. It takes courage to do that, because talking about budget is not easy. And the discussions has brought clarity. It has helped me to understand a lot of things on various overview. And I appreciate Mr. DeKuyse's grant writer proposal. I hope something can be worked out between his proposal and the rest of you, because it is a good thing for the city. As far as salary policy, I think going forward, there should be a policy. Absolutely, there should be a policy. I think it will bring all the discussions for future salary toned down a lot. Every year at the budget, the salary is the biggest part of the budget, right? And it brings in a lot of emotions into it. And so when we have a policy, a city policy for salary, down the road, you work out between for this year how things will work out. But down the road, I really think that a policy will be good for the city, very good. And then the down payment proposal, that's great. That's good to help people to own their homes. They are struggling, struggling to own homes. So I hope something can be worked out too. Thank you so much for all of you to do your work. And the discretionary spending for all of you Absolutely. It needs to be increased. Unlike the teachers, I don't want to see you just like the teachers. They have to come out with their own supply costs. You don't need to do that. Thank you. Thank you.

Darwin Moore. Is Darwin still here? Did we lose him? All right. I think we also lost Mike Appelgarth. Did Mike leave? Yeah. IVA Williams.

Hi. My name's IVA. Some of you may recognize me from last fall. I ran against Councilmember Nickel for that City Council seat. I agree with Pat. There was a lot of really good conversation. There was a lot of really good proposals. But I'm not here to talk about cutting salaries and raising salaries. I'm here to talk about the withdrawal from the CWC. Council Member Nickel, when we ran for city council, we both ran on an anti-gondola platform. It was on your website. You went to events. You told the community. And you were elected on an anti-gondola platform. And I think my comment is a little bit more of a question. I'm curious about how withdrawing from the CWC will help you fulfill your promises that you made to us, your constituency, to keep the gondola out of the canyon. Thank you.

Thank you. Let's not right now.

No I'm going to address that one because it was addressed to me. Ms. Nichol CWC has nothing to do with Gondola.

I would love it if you would address that. We don't answer questions during the public comment period. All right. So next one is Dawn Sidwell.

OK, loud and clear. Brooke, I'm very disappointed in you. You live in historic Sandy. You understand. In fact, you live right by where they hold the picnic. It is a very, very important. picnic for the people. As I, who have lived there for 22 years, this picnic has brought people together in an area that has a lot of problems. Anybody hear about the shooting last, what was it, last year at Main Street Park? The drugs, the people sleeping on the streets? We don't have a good reputation in Sandy or in other cities. Believe me, I've been told, you live in historic Sandy. This picnic has brought a lot of people together out campaigning for certain individuals that I like and support. I have talked with a lot of residents, and they feel the same. Historic Sandy was the founding city. The Heritage Festival, yeah, I used to go to that. And then it went away. And it became this big, convoluted, entertainment that took away from the small environment of Historic Sandy, which I never saw you at any of the Historic Sandy picnics, Brooke. So I'm very, very disappointed in you. And Miss Housman, that works for what you tried to do last year. You tried to get rid of the Historic Sandy barbecue. You thought it was duplication. So good luck. You worked hard to get that again this year. I'm not happy with it. So I'm asking the council members, which is this is an important event to a small, poor community. And it will bring people together. It will let them know who we all are together as a community. So I need you guys to stop thinking about Elta Canyon and all the big projects and think about the little man down here. I am tired of coming up here and saying the same thing over and over and over again. There are four of you, definitely, that will vote together. You've been doing it for years. I've brought it up many, many times. So my chances of you supporting historic Sandy Picnic I feel are null. And the other thing I want to discuss in 28 seconds is the letter. use electronics. I want it, the mail, and my bill. Thank you.

Cynthia Cruz. Cynthia still here? OK.

Sorry, I've never talked before, so I'm a little nervous.

My name is Cynthia Cruz, and we have lived in Historic Sandy for 30 years. Also, my husband's side of the family, we have the original quitclaim deed. It'll be 100 years for our property that we currently live in, or live on, whatever. But I love Historic Sandy, and I'm just going to kind of reiterate kind of what Don has said. One is the letter, you know, that they said that there was a high percentage. As we retire, or as I retire, that gives us access or know what's going on. I have a degree in computer science, but as technology changes, it's harder and harder to find things. So I would ask you to please consider leaving that newsletter. We get it in our water bill, which I don't know when that started, but I noticed it. And I was like, oh, that's cool. Also, same thing that Dawn said about the barbecue. It's tomorrow. I invite you all to come. I'm going to be there. I'm going to have my husband, my two kids. And maybe you can meet us. That's how we access the neighbors. Used to plan play dates for my kids when they were little. You meet people that you didn't even know they had kids. And so I ask you to please reconsider. And also... You know, when I was driving home from the grocery store, well, my husband was driving home from the grocery store, and we saw Monica out, and she was passing those flyers. And I told my husband, stop, stop, stop. I gotta go over there and say hi. You know? So come out. See us. See us as people. You know? And I encourage you to Just leave historic Sandy alone. We love it, and as we get older, people want to take away our historic Sandy. They want to take away my lot that I have, that my kids played on, because they want to run a through street for where we live. As I get older, I won't be able to fight it, and it'll happen. Right now, I can fight it. But maybe 10 years down the road, I won't be able to fight it. So keep historic Sandy as it is. Thank you for your time. Thank you. Danny Richardson.

Thank you for hanging there with us.

My comments are briefly regarding the proposed budget change to the CWC contribution. Again, my name is Danny Richardson. Short and sweet, I'm a resident of Sandy since 1978. I've been part of the Utah ski and tourism industry in various capacities since 1975 to the current. Various positions at Snowbird. executive at SkiUtah and the Ski Association, executive at the Tourism Industry Coalition, part of the 2002 Salt Lake Olympics. And my most recent employment was eight years at UTA, where I was intricately involved with the ski bus program. I've served two terms as the committee chair of the CWC Transportation Systems Subcommittee, which ended this month. And I'm a current member of the CWC stakeholders. Again, short and sweet, Sandy City's continuing contribution to and participation in the various aspects of Central Wasatch Commission as a contributing member is critical to the organization, to the Central Wasatch, to our beautiful mountains, and importantly to the residents of Sandy, and ultimately to the state of Utah. Be part of the solutions. Be part of the CWC team. Sandy City, you are the key, in some ways, the most influential, important player in both the short- and long-term success of the Central Wasatch Commission and all that it represents. Again, be a participating, contributing member. Thank you.

Thank you. Jack, is it Strauss? Strauss? Jack, come on down.

Strauss again.

Hi, thanks so much. Yeah, Jack Staus. Thank you all for having me. Thanks, council. Thanks, mayor. My role is the executive director at Save Our Canyons, a local conservation group based here right in the shadow of the Wasatch Mountains, fighting for the beauty and wildness of the range. We've been around for about 54 years. We have worked with CWC and Mountain Accord in a variety of capacities, but I think having mayors and having cities represented there is imperative. It's what really brings people together and it really gives the CWC the power that it has. And so I really want to implore you to continue your participation, both with representation as well with funding. The CWC does so much for so many, including the citizens of Sandy. It's imperative to have an organizing body like the CWC to foster this collaborative space that protects watershed, recreation, and the forest that we all love. They also support the economies, businesses, and the new low-intract transit solutions throughout the range. I would argue that a lot of the good work that's happening right now on the transit side is no small part because of Mountain Accord and the CWC. I believe that withdrawing support would be very ill-advised on two accounts. First, Sandy and the cities from across the Wasatch Front have spent years working on projects together. To pull out of the CWC now would equate to a massive waste of resources that you've already put towards that very important work. Second, Sandy receives an outsized amount of benefit from the Central Wasatch Commission. You are all major beneficiaries of the work they do. You're on the edge of the Central Wasatch Mountains, and your constituents depend on the clean water and easy access to undeveloped lands And that all, you know, that the CWC and Central Wash High Commission's projects provide. And not even to mention some of the good policy that has come from years of very difficult and nuanced coalition building. The CWC is the space where this happens. To lead now would not only be a short-sighted financial blunder, it would also be irresponsible decision for the people that you represent. And I'd also like to say, too, for those of you that are newer to the space or are not sure what the CWC does, come to one of their meetings. Come to a board meeting. See how the stakeholders work together. See how the commission works together. It's an amazing space, one that I feel really privileged to be part of. And I hope that you'll continue to support it. And yeah, get involved with the work we're all doing together. Thank you so much.

Thank you. All right. Janet Kinneberg. Don't tell me we lost Janet.

Okay.

Lindsay Nielsen.

A lot of stuff. Hi, counselors. Thank you so much for the time, for making yourself available today, and for hearing public comment. Before I get into my comment, I want to make some points of clarification. The CWC has not existed for 10 to 15 years. The CWC was created by interlocal agreement in 2017 and was staffed up at the very end of 2018. I was the second staff person hired in August of 2018. Council Member Nickel, I don't know who you spoke to when you said you heard that Sandy would be able to remain a member of the CWC if they reduce their contribution down to zero, but that's not at all clear and not incorrect. In fact, if that's true, Sandy would be the only member non-monetarily contributing member of the Central Wasatch Commission, and it would be one of the largest beneficiaries. OK? OK. OK. So now on to my comment. My name is Lindsay Nielsen. As you all probably know, I have the great honor of serving as the executive director of the Central Wasatch Commission. But I'm also more than that. I grew up here in Sandy City in District 3. I am a citizen who has chosen to make this beautiful region my home. In fact, every time I try and leave Utah, I come back. Utah and the mountains have a hold on me. I'm a citizen who requires reliable access to drinking water. and clean air. I'm a citizen who benefits from the economic fruits that the Central Wasatch provide. It should come as no surprise that I am strongly opposed to the removal of the funding for the Central Wasatch Commission. The CWC is the only organization that brings together local elected officials, as you know, organizational leaders, and public stakeholders to solve the problems that our beloved mountains face. There is no hiding the fact that the region has seen a historic boom in population and economic development. Simultaneously, annual average snowfall continues to decrease, and our public lands face mounting threats. The CWC was created eight years ago, and in that time it has faced skeptics, budget pressures, and competing priorities, but it's persevered. But what is the cause of this stamina? The reason is simple. The CWC is not limited to one person, one business, one town. The work is all-encompassing, impacting all who live in the shadows of these beautifully snow-capped peaks. The mission of the CWC is simple, to preserve the natural environment, promote sustainable economic growth, and guarantee public access for generations to come. The primary directive of the CWC is to designate the central Wasatch as a national conservation and recreation area, which we hope to have ready in 2027 or 2028. I have quite a bit more to say. I will email it to you unless I can't finish now.

No, we'd love for you to email it to us, Lindsay. Thank you.

Thank you so much again for your time and attention. Thank you. And last, Mike Marker.

Let's see, there was three opportunities to stand up today, so this is a combination of all those three. I want to add my name to that, the emails that you got, because I also want to put in that I think that getting out of, dropping out of CWC would be short-sighted. There's a lot of reasons, things that I'd like to see them continue to do, some things I'd like to have them start doing, but they can't do it if they're not funded. So I'm on that list, short-sighted. Pay and policy. As a human resource person, historically, we would always have the kind of a policy in place that you folks have. You can't manage pay and benefits without some kind of policy. So good on you. But I also am concerned that you would think about reducing someone's salary in transit. While it might be legal, I think it's certainly unethical. And I also find it fascinating why you would want to reduce the mayor's salary. You would want to have yourselves, in the following year, get that higher increase. That's still voting for a pay increase. And someone told me one time, democracies start to die and fall apart when we start voting ourselves our own pay raises. So I think that you should reconsider that. I really want to talk about cutting costs. And I think that's a good thing. But I also want to point out that when we start cutting costs, we need to be congruent and we need to be consistent. And I'm always impressed with this group because I see you fighting for, you'll take 60 minutes of a council meeting debating over a $2.50 increase in a utility charge. But I really find it fascinating that you ignore the fact that there's a $1,200 burden placed on people in Sandy City for each household if we build a gondola. And you've been quiet on that. And I don't understand that. Now, I think Devin from UDOT came and spoke to you. And you talked about that cost. You acknowledged the cost. You acknowledged that it's $1.4 billion. And that's WFRC numbers, not mine. And it's $1,200 based on math. $1,200 every household in this state. But you seem to, as I remember the conversation, you seem to give it short shift because it's not a line item. It doesn't show up on my property tax. But I'm paying for it every time I buy a loaf of bread or I fill up at the gas station. 80% of the people. and Sandy that I knocked on doors, and also Kurt Oakland, when he knocked on doors. We ran for the House seat last year. And we got together and said, what did we learn? And he said, 80% of the people that I talk to do not understand why we're funding a gondola. And likewise, as I said, we look to our Sandy Council to help us send a voice that we don't want that. So thank you. Be consistent and be congruent when we talk about cutting costs. Thank you.

All right. That's all the blue cards I have. Can we see if we have online participants that would like to weigh in?

Yes Madam Chair and there were a couple of folks that walked up and said they had marked items five and six on their cards. I think we may have missed them. I don't recall. I think it's these folks in the back right there.

I do I do know that I didn't realize that you wanted to speak. Is it on a different issue or the same issue. OK, different perspective on the same issue. OK, you got my interest piqued. All right, go ahead and come on down.

Roger again. As I hear the discussion on CWC, it doesn't seem to be, well, we don't want to be a member of that club. It seems to be all about money. And I understand that properly. But here's a data point down out that has less than 400 probably 400 residents It has a three and a half million dollar budget and it has a 25k contribution to CWC That's all I wanted to say, thank you Mrs. Burke, did you want to speak again to I?

Ma'am if you're going to talk you have to come down to the.

I think she's just saying no that's fine. All right. Thank you. Thank you. I was a little confused. My bad. Thank you. All right Dustin let's go ahead on and go online.

I will do Madam Chair and just so I don't forget I do have two comments that were asked to be read into the record but I'd like to if you're OK we can do those after. If you're joining us virtually this evening and you'd like to comment on item number six on this evening's agenda now's the time. Go ahead and click the raise hand button on your screen. I'll call your name in the order in which you raised your hand and you'll have three minutes. Not seeing any hands raised Madam Chair.

All right. Well close public comment. Madam Chair can I read the comments. You just said that didn't you.

OK I'm going to set a timer just out of you know fairness to everybody else. Okay, this is from Jude in Gracia. Hi, Sandy City Council. I appreciate Brooke Christensen's and Chris Nichols' efforts to find ways to save Sandy citizens money, but I urge you not to pull Sandy City out of the Central Wasatch Commission and not to end the newsletter mailings. The CWC is a way for Sandy City to have a seat at the table and help make decisions that directly affect Sandy citizens. While the mailings help us all stay informed of the goings on in our town, Halting these programs decreases the voice of Sandy citizens and decreases transparency. I truly appreciate your careful review of the budget. I do. But I urge you to let us keep our seat at the CWC and continue the printed newsletter. Anything that decreases the people's voice is detrimental to Sandy City as a whole. These two items are vital to our quality of life in Sandy. I do not agree with saving a few bucks in the present in exchange for less transparency and a worse environment in the future. That would be a foolish and short sighted decision. The CWC and newsletter are a worthwhile investment in our city. Thank you Jude Sandy resident. Okay the next one is from Shannon Davis. My name is Shannon Davis and I am a resident of Sandy. I am speaking today because these budget decisions affect how informed our residents are how safe our neighborhoods feel and how responsibly our tax dollars are used. I respect the office of city council member and the work each of you does for our city. I'm opposed to eliminating the printed city newsletter is a Sandy service ambassador and candidate. I have talked to many Sandy residents at events churches and all around our neighborhoods. One thing I've heard loud and clear is how valuable the printed newsletter is. In my own neighborhood I took a poll and most neighbors read it. They aren't likely to go to the city's Web site to gain information. Many of our residents are seniors have poor vision and struggle with technology. And the printed newsletter is one of the few reliable ways they receive city information. It's important for them to stay connected to our city. At just $0.20 per household per month, this is a small cost for a high quality newsletter with a large benefit. I'm opposed to eliminating the historic Sandy barbecue and community gathering. Historic Sandy has faced real challenges with crime and drug activity. And while campaigning, I worked with the city, and we encouraged residents to participate in Neighborhood Watch. But neighbors cannot look out for one another if they don't know each other. I was surprised at how many residents I met in historic Sandy who do not know their neighbors. This event helps build community and strength and safety and cutting it undermines those goals. I'm opposed to dropping Sandy's membership in the Central Wasatch Commission. Protecting our watershed in Little Cottonwood Canyon is essential to our city's health and future. This is not an area where we can afford to step back. I'm opposed to the proposed increases for city council members. These increases are not reasonable at a time when some city employee positions were eliminated. Raises for elected officials should not come before the needs of staff and residents. I'm opposed to cutting the mayor's salary. She works tirelessly for our city, is consistently present in the community, and has accomplished so much for Sandy. Reducing her pay does not reflect the value of her work. If you reduce her salary, reduce your wages by the same percentage. I'm opposed to funding a city council communications staffer. The council should be able to handle their own communications rather than expanding political staffing. You just gave yourself a million dollar upgrade for your remodel. It's time to put this city first, continue the newsletter, fund the Central Wasatch Commission, keep historic Sandy Barbecue, and stop playing games with the mayor's pay. I urge the council to adopt a budget that protects essential services, strengthens neighborhoods, and demonstrates responsible stewardship of taxpayer dollars. Thank you for entering the statement into the public record. Sincerely, Shanna Davis.

All right. OK, I'm going to close public comment and bring it back to the council. The way this is going to work, you guys, is we'll handle it same way as we handle voting items. We'll take each and every item one by one. And I'll look for a motion and a second. And then we'll conduct a vote. And once again, it's not a binding vote. It's just this is a vote whether to move this forward to consideration and adoption with the budget at a later date. All right. And I must say, I think the reason I was trying to move things along is Miss D'Souza has to catch a plane. And we are trying to get as much in. So if I go to her first most of the time, it'll just be because I know she has to leave. All right. So regarding and it'll work just the way it normally does a motion and a second and then discussion on the motion. So I'm happy if you guys do you guys want to handle it or you want me to go through it. We didn't really talk about this. Do you want to take each item one at a time and ask for action. What do you how do you want to do that.

Do you want to go through each of them? Yeah, each of them.

I will start with the dumpster fee, keeping it to cover the cost from $300 to $310.

Second. OK. So we're calling that a motion and a second. Is there any discussion on the motion? Seeing none, we can take a vote. Do you want to roll call? Let's do that. Let's do roll calls.

Ms. Nichol. Yes. Ms. Christensen. Yes. Ms. D'Souza. Yes. Mr. DeKaiser. Yes. Ms. Stroud. Yes. Ms. Hausman. Yes. Ms. Sharkey. Yes. Madam Chair, that motion carried 7-0.

Second item, the consolidated staffing with regards to salary for elected officials.

Second. All right, we have a motion and a second. Let's do discussion on this motion. I'd like to discuss this. If anyone follows my Facebook page, You would have seen that what I did after we got the budget book was I laid out every single budget book since I've been a council member side by side. It covered my entire kitchen counter. What I do is I go through and I look for changes and I look for trends. What is costing us more. What is added. I'll go through and I'll see trend lines. I noticed a very interesting thing, and that is somebody talked about the fact, and I'm glad they did, that there was a mayor that raised their pay. The council reacted to that the council thought that was a bad thing the council didn't like that and the council at that time and we're talking a long time ago expressed in the budget book a range of pay for the mayor. So that was established in the budget book a range of pay for the mayor. In the budget book it has that in just about every single job category a range of pay. In 2023, we blew right past that number and kept going. And I asked the finance department, why? Why? There was a range of pay expressed and now it's an individual number. Why is that? And the finance department said, there was no policy in place that allowed us to cap it, to stop. There was no policy surrounding this. That is why we need a policy. We need a policy for ourselves. We need a policy for everybody's pay. We do follow a policy in employee pay, and it's pretty. We do it every single year, and we put a lot of effort into it. And it's a comparison chart. And our HR department puts a tremendous amount of effort in it, and we rely on it very, very much. We compare the rate of our employees to similar employees in 12 comparison groups. So we put an effort into establishing what the appropriate pay is. We need to do that for ourselves. That is what we need to do. That is the way you contain runaway expenses. That is the way you serve the public. That is the way you land on good decisions, is through study and analysis, and I think applying those same rules to ourselves is a really good way to serve the public and earn the public's trust. So I support this. I want to stress, I don't know where the next step will go. The assumption that we're reducing one pay rate to be commensurate with others using the same kind of categories that I just talked about, but that will increase ours. I'm not assuming that that's a foregone conclusion. We have a long way to go. So I think it's unfair to assume that. You'll be involved in the conversation. I don't know where that goes. We haven't taken it up. We haven't studied it. We certainly haven't voted on it. And so to me it's not a foregone conclusion. But in this case I think it is the right policy. I was surprised to find that even though in budget books there had been a cap expressed we weren't observing one. So I think we I think it's very important that we come up with a policy and so I support this.

Any other?

Ms. D'Souza, go ahead.

I just want to say, because this is the time to make any comment on any potential vote, and I know that this is just to put it on the short list to come back before anything's final, but I do support this for the reasons that I previously stated, for the reasons that Council Member Sharkey stated, and I know that there are some that have a different belief, but this isn't personal. This is good policy, and that was what I was elected to do. So that's how I see this role and this vote here. So thank you.

Mr. I will on all of these be supporting because I think we've provided feedback and I'd like to see what it looks like and that's and I I mean I I gave my feedback earlier of what I think should come first you know harder horse or cart but that's but I I want I I would like to give you guys that opportunity to take that feedback and either accept or reject it so I I mean I will be supporting everything in here because I think it gives us that chance to look at it if there are modifications.

All right. We have a motion and a second.

Ms. Nichol? Yes. Ms. Christensen? Yes. Ms. D'Souza? Yes. Mr. DeKaiser?

No.

Ms. Stroud?

Yes.

Ms. Hausman? Yes. Ms. Sharkey? Yes. Madam Chair that motion carried 6-0.

Reduce appropriations in the water fund by 93,000. Second.

Madam chair may I may I make a suggestion.

Sure.

Is there an interest in just so it's been outlined in the memo by kind of section is there an interest in just moving through each one of those sections.

That's what we're doing.

Right. But that section for the for the water fund includes more than just the the ninety three thousand dollar reduction does it not or am I am I am I just speaking completely out of turn here.

That's the only thing I just see one. Are you talking about.

I apologize guys. It's been a long night. Just let's just ignore me.

OK. So discussion on that motion. I wanted to hear the comments before I gave mine. I am very shocked that anyone would call this having any relationship to a gondola. Totally disconnected. I was shocked the first time I saw it on social media. I think my reaction was, wait, what? Mountain Accord, and then CWC. I'm sorry we lost so many people. I wish they were here. I wish people had stayed. Mountain Accord and then CWC. So I moved here 27 years ago. And I live near the mouth of Little Cottonwood Canyon. I live down the hill in Willow Creek. Mountain transportation, protection of the canyons, all of that, boy, that was a front burner thing when I moved here 27 years ago. And I followed it very, very carefully and very closely. I can say confidently that there is not a single one of us sitting up here that don't love these canyons, want to see them protected, have a concern about protection of the watershed. I personally, I think it's the best thing about living in Sandy, living at the base of Little Cottonwood Canyon, Big Cottonwood Canyon. To me, this is the best thing about living in Sandy. I think everything started with very, very good intent and continues with good intent. I'm not going to say that there isn't good intent that is still there. There were goals that were originally created. In my view, they haven't been met. One gets to the point of wondering whether there is a better way. I am not willing to give up on the original goals. The original goals being improve canyon transportation and establish a conservation and recreation area. I'm not willing to give up on those goals. CWC hasn't been able to get it done. I believe that since the group grew and the group splintered I think in my view I think that an indication of the fact that there is splintering that you have a lot of groups that have their own personal interest and it is unclear whether a consensus can be reached was when CWC was asked to make a recommendation to UDOT on the preferred canyon transportation solution. They were unable to do that. To say I was disappointed would be an understatement. There are members of CWC that have interests in their own community. I have an interest in mine. I think that Sandy has a lot on the line with watershed protection with transportation and I think that we are better off using The two things I talked about, transportation and the establishment of a conservation and recreation area. You're having to lobby with established relationships, work with two large entities, the state of Utah and the federal government. the state of Utah, and the federal government. It's their properties. They own it. They are responsible. They make the decisions. You have to have good relationships with them. You have to focus your attentions on them. I think that we are better off hiring lobbyists and using our own interests to get these things done than spending $95,000 with CWC. That's where I am. I hope CWC continues. I realize that their focus has become small projects. That's fine. That's great. That also serves Sandy. I don't want to lose sight of the big focuses. And I think we ought to continue to do that. And I am not certain that CWC is the mechanism that gets us there. I want to get serious about it. And so I would put my money elsewhere I I'm wondering, hey, I was just in Big Cottonwood Canyon last week hiking to the Milby Overlook. And now we have a $10 use fee to go into the canyons. That looked like that was a Forest Service fee. I sure hope they can pay for some of their own projects, too. That would be awfully nice. So I feel like in some ways we're doing the work of the Forest Service. And if they won't, then the default is us. That's fine. I wish CWC luck. I think that our chances of getting done what we really, really need to get done are through different efforts than through CWC. As much as I wish them well, I enjoy these canyons. I use them all the time. I hope CWC is successful and continues to be successful. I think it's not the route to achieve the really big goals that we need to focus on.

Thank you for sharing your perspective, and I agree with most of it. I've seen this group more from Mountain Accord, CWC. The goals of the group, whoever is leading it, change often, too. It's been a moving target. There are people here that spoke against joining Mountain Accord, the mayor included. She didn't want to one time. Now she wants to. I completely get that. There's just not money to do it. And I'll go back and I'll pull the MOU, but there aren't any dollar amounts in the MOU. And I wish them well as well. But that's all.

Any more discussion? Ms. Housman.

Thank you Madam Chair. I echo the appreciation we've heard from and I think you said last count it was over 90 or something you were counting. So it's obviously there are a lot of people who very much are following this conversation, very much care, very invested. And we've heard from a lot of them. I was grateful to have the opportunity to actually serve on the Central Wasatch Commission. I served for two years and loved the opportunity to collaborate and loved the opportunity to get to know the stakeholders group. And so this one has been particularly difficult for me because I have watched the work up close. I have been in the meetings. And yet I have to remember that my role is thinking about sandy taxpayers. And earlier tonight I mentioned outcomes-based contracting. I mentioned how important it is to measure what we treasure. And if we are spending taxpayer dollars, we have to measure what outcomes are coming as a result of that and It's not for lack of effort. It's not for lack of passion. But in my own evaluation, especially over just the last couple of years, I have felt that in terms of measurement, the outcomes are not being delivered and not in terms of what I think are the highest priorities. And I'm like a broken record. Priority-based budgeting, thinking about priorities, thinking about outcomes. with my city council hat on, not my former member of the Central Wasatch Commission hat on. I am weighing that as we, and again, tonight is not a vote for what we're doing. Tonight is a, are we putting this on the short list? I think it warrants putting on the short list and coming back. This is a hard one, and it's one to weigh carefully. I am doing that, but for this, I have to have my city council hat on, and I am In a tight budget year, I am very aware of every decision we make and how it affects taxpayers. And so for me, I have to think about outcomes. So I guess I should. So I'm saying yes, put it on the short list.

Any other comments? Mr. DeKaiser, go ahead.

Thinking about giving up on our goals, I think that's what this would do. Getting us out of the CWC would give up on the goal. Is the CWC perfect? No. But I don't think there's a better way of effecting that change if we're out. And I would it would just be so tragic if this body can withstand over 100 comments opposed to it like I said more than we've ever ever ever seen. I think it's going to pass it is true. And I hope the residents come back in force next week. Thank you.

You should have gotten the bulk waste.

Yeah, bulk waste was way off the chart. Hundreds. Hundreds, yeah.

From actual residents.

Madam Chair I just Miss Nichol mentioned misrepresented my position on the Mountain Accord. I just want to correct that for the record. I never opposed the Mountain Accord and I participated in public comments and the process of the Mountain Accord. This would like my record to stand for itself. I don't need a council member to mischaracterize it. Thank you.

Excuse me.

Miss D'Souza go ahead.

Maybe it was the CWC you were thinking of, and I don't mean to mischaracterize, but I do remember sitting in the audience, and for the first two years you sat on the council, you were very much opposed to the participation and funding of the CWC. So maybe it was that that she was thinking of.

I've always voted to fund the CWC since I was on the council.

All right, we're ready for a vote.

Madam Chair, who was the second on that motion?

What was yours?

Ms. Nickel? Yes. Ms. Christensen? Yes. Ms. D'Souza? Yes. Mr. DeKaiser?

No.

Ms. Stroud? Yes. Ms. Hausman? Yes. Ms. Sharkey?

Yes.

Madam Chair, that motion carried 6-1.

I'll go on to fleet purchases, reduce the appropriation. put it in council contingency. Second.

Any discussion on that motion. Seeing none we'll take a vote.

Can I clarify really quickly. It's it's a fleet contingency. Yes.

Was that your clarification Brian. OK. All right. Ready for a vote.

Ms. Nichol? Yes. Ms. Christensen? Yes. Ms. D'Souza is excused. Mr. DeKaiser?

Yes.

Ms. Stroud? Yes. Ms. Hausman? Yes. Ms. Sharkey?

Yes.

Madam Chair, that motion carried six to zero with one excused.

I'll motion to approve the next item under the category Mayor's Office.

Second. So are we taking on just the first one? Or the entire thing? How do you guys want to?

The entire thing, yeah.

So if any council, okay, we have a motion and a second. Is there discussion? Any council member feeling the need to tear it apart? Because if not, we'll just vote on all of it.

I just want to say that we already addressed the middle item in this. So if we could maybe take that out I would be a yes on it.

OK. Motion stands.

It's redundant. Yeah.

Madam chair may I ask just a clarifying question for our benefit of staff when we're putting together the short list. There had been some conversation about the PIO position being remaining in the comms department versus the mayor's office. This is the mayor's office. And so I just want to understand where I'm going to be placing that.

I think our plan is just to move it forward as it is and we will adjust over the next week as necessary when we bring it back. Take all the input and adjust as necessary.

Okay. So I should put it in the short list as it's written?

Yes.

Yeah. Okay. We have a motion and a second. Okay. Brian come on up.

Similar to Mr. Frattles you also discussed the discretionary amount moving that to 20,000. So is that the same philosophy?

Yeah. I mean it's our intent.

But right now we're just doing it as is but I mean our discussion points we

So everything you're voting on is as written here? Right, yes.

So the Friendly Amendment was declined. Ms. Nichol?

Yes.

Ms. Christensen? Yes. Mr. DeKaiser?

No.

Ms. Stroud? Yes. Ms. Hausman?

Yes.

Ms. Sharkey. Yes.

Next item is putting the item marked grant in non-departmental under professional services or wherever they want to put it in the CAO's budget.

Second.

Any discussion? All right. Roll call vote.

Ms. Nichol. Yes. Ms. Christensen? Yes. Mr. DeKaiser?

Yes.

Ms. Stroud? Yes. Ms. Hausman? Yes. Ms. Sharkey?

Yes.

Madam Chair, that motion carried six to zero.

Next section, council office adjustments, general fund.

Second. Discussion? Council? Seeing none, roll call vote.

Ms. Nichol? Yes. Ms. Christensen? Yes. Mr. DeKaiser?

No.

Ms. Stroud? Yes. Ms. Hausman? Yes. Ms. Sharkey? Yes. Madam Chair, that motion carried five to one.

Next item, section, community events.

Second.

Discussion?

I just apologize maybe getting a little bit confused. What what was the last one we just voted on. Oh sorry. I was I was on ahead of myself.

You were a yes on that.

I was a yes on that. OK I can change. It doesn't matter.

We can adjust the record that change on the general fund. OK let's do that. Yes. So just for the record it was six to zero.

OK. So then community events.

Yeah.

Any discussion on this motion? Seeing none. Roll call vote.

Yes. Miss Christensen. Yes. Mr. DeKaiser.

No.

Miss Stroud. Yes. Miss Hausman. Yes. Miss Sharkey. Yes. Madam chair that motion carried 5 to 1.

Section communications department.

Second. Discussion? Roll call vote.

Ms. Nichol. Yes. Ms. Christensen. Yes. Mr. DeKaiser.

No.

Ms. Stroud. Yes. Ms. Hausman. Yes. Ms. Sharkey? Yes. Madam Chair, that motion carried 5 to 1.

Last item, non-departmental.

Second. Discussion? Roll call vote.

Ms. Nickel? Yes. Ms. Christensen? Yes. Mr. DeKaiser?

No.

Ms. Stroud?

Yes.

Ms. Hausman? Yes. Ms. Sharkey? Yes. Madam Chair, that motion carried 5-1.

Okay, Mr. DeKaiser, would you like to make a motion on your proposal?

Yeah, I would that we move it forward. I hear the feedback about wanting to see what would happen with the contract, so I'm totally open to figuring that out. Just see this as in the best interest for the city financially and something that I hope the council can get behind So I'm not tied to what it looks like moving forward. I will incorporate that feedback But it is something I would like to talk about next week and in terms of getting it in the budget. So thank you All right discussion

Okay. Ms. Stroud. And just as I voted yes on everything else before, even though I had some questions with it, you know, I'll be voting yes on this one so that you have that opportunity to take that feedback and then we'll see what it looks like next week.

Ms. Houseman.

Just a clarifying question. You just said you still hope to put it in the budget. So what you're bringing back next week is still an intent to... Set aside money from the budget to fund this.

Yeah. Look at how it's done. If it's not $160,000 position maybe it's a $40,000 contract position. I'm not sure what it'll look like but yeah incorporating the feedback that was given and see if it's something that's amenable to the body.

OK. Similarly I think this is about bringing things back to then determine what we'll do. So I think it should be on the short list. Just want to ask that clarifying question. Thank you.

I'll repeat that I like the idea for another year. I just am going to stay consistent and say that we don't add employees when we're eliminating employees. So that is the only reason that my vote will be the way it will be. All right. Roll call vote.

Madam Chair, was there a second on that motion?

It was. Ms. Christensen, yeah.

Mr. DeKaiser?

Yes.

Ms. Christensen? Yes. Ms. Stroud? Yes. Ms. Nichol? Yes. Ms. Hausman? Yes. Ms. Sharkey?

No.

Madam Chair, that carried 5 to 1.

All right. Miss Stroud. So we'll go with the first one. So the seed funding request, revitalization, down payment assistance program with the South Town Ridge increments.

Second.

All right. Any discussion to the motion?

Nope.

Roll call vote.

Miss Stroud?

Yes.

Miss Nicole? Yes. Miss Hausman?

Yes.

Miss Sharkey?

Yes.

Ms. Christensen? Yes. Mr. DeKaiser?

Yes.

Madam Chair, that motion carried 6-0.

And the second one, so the budget amendment funding for water-wise areas, replacement adjacent to city parks.

Second.

Discussion? Ms. Housman?

I know we're... We are thinking shortlist what we bring back, and for me, I really think we need to be focused on playgrounds, and I just can't see pulling money away from playgrounds. Back to priorities, I feel like there is a lot of good happening to model and think about water-wise, and yet to pull money from what playgrounds have got to be improved, I'm hesitant. So I don't know that I can bring this back to a short list.

I'd be bringing back with the option of looking at a Fund 5100 out of public utilities.

But what are we not funding in public utilities by doing that?

Right now they have, I think it's like 30 million in there, so it would be the mainline replacement. I mean, it's the water fund of looking at that.

And I thought water mainline replacement was a significant priority for us. We keep hearing that that is so important.

And that's, I mean, those were the two that we looked at, so it'll just be kind of up for discussion on that.

Yeah, I think for me, I can already, to tell you neither of those are an option for me. So I don't know about bringing it back to the short list.

OK. OK. Ms. Stroud?

Yes. Ms. Nickel?

Yes. Ms. Hausman? No. Ms. Sharkey?

No.

Ms. Christensen? Yes. Mr. DeKaiser?

Yes.

Madam Chair, that carried four to two.

OK. We do have a closed session on the agenda. Let's first, before we take that up, let's first go to standing reports.

Madam Chair. Yeah. Brian Kelly would like to make a comment if you'll allow him.

That Brian Kelly? OK. That's OK.

So just a concern I have as you're working on this on the Nichol-Christensen proposal to bring back On the mayor's pay, just to correct, we did have a policy on elected officials' pay before. It has been the average of what employees received. And so I think the, and we also did have a range for the mayor historically, but there came a point when the average of what the employees received is what the elected officials received. It surpassed that, and I think it's, probably because we got so far behind in police and fire. And so the years we did major increases to police and fire, it elevated the average pay. And that's what was given to elected officials. And I think a couple of those years happening is what brought it past that. This year, my understanding is you have your policy that they will receive the COLA. So if you cap it, there seems to be a conflict between that policy and capping it at 160. So just something for you to keep in mind. I'm not sure how you want to address that.

Thanks. I looked at the employee handbook and tried to get an idea of the policy around it. And it just says employees, if I'm not mistaken. It doesn't say elected officials, the average compensation.

It was in the budget document every year. It's in the appendix compensation staffing plan. Thank you. There was this paragraph in there that said elected officials receive the average of what employees receive. So Katrina in HR, every year she would calculate what the average was, and that's what elected officials were eligible for. So that policy has been in place as long as I can remember.

Thanks for the explanation.

Thank you.

Madam Chair, can I ask Brian a question? Brian, but that's been taken out of the budget document, in the tentative budget document, correct, because of the new policy that was adopted earlier in the year?

Yeah, I'd have to verify that, but I think she did take that out.

Yeah, I didn't see it, so I'm pretty certain it was.

Yeah, for now, but you recently passed one that says COLA, right? Correct, as a council for elected officials.

It was, I think we had removed the merit. Right, you removed the merit. It left COLA.

Yeah, that's correct. The policy you passed says that elected officials are eligible for the COLA increase, and that replaced the old policy that was in the budget booklet that said that they were eligible for the combination, or I'm sorry, the average increase, total increase given to all employees.

So, yeah, that's my concern is there still seems to be a conflict there.

Thank you.

We'll make sure we have that wrapped up.

Let's do council member business and then come back to Dustin. Anything, Ms. Hausman?

Just a very quick note of thank you and appreciation from Denise Haycock. As you all know, she retired from the Canyons Education Foundation. She attended My Fair Lady at the Hale Center Theater recently. I don't remember exactly when. Sorry, it's been a long night. words are jumbling up. Chris made it possible. As you know, Chris kind of facilitates this opportunity to use the hail tickets and express appreciation and honor people. And so Chris recommended Denise Haycock as one of those who we might want to thank for her many years of service. On behalf of the city council, we gave her two tickets to the Hale for My Fair Lady, and she sent a note of appreciation. The show was fantastic. So it's a little plug for the Hale, but it's also a thank you from Denise. She loved the show, had a great time, and feels very appreciated by the council. And so that's all I had, just passing on the gratitude from Denise Haycock and thanking her for all of her work over the years.

So I also saw My Fair Lady this last week. It is a great production. So I'd love to have that in our community. I have to correct something I said earlier, because I misstated it when I said 50 years, Shane. It was 2008 when it began. So it's only been 20 years almost. So that's when the Heritage Festival started.

I loved that you were consulting Shane on a 50-year-ago list.

Sorry, Shane. I felt really bad that you thought I'd been around here for 50 years.

I'll work on that.

It's on the public record. I love this. So I just wanted to correct that.

All right, so you guys may have noticed the news that came out. They said it was going to be a press release. It wasn't as big a splash as I expected. But the Salt Palace will close for three years. All along, as a member of the Convention Facilities Advisory Board, we'd been planning on and expecting that there would be that a section of the Salt Palace would be demolished, but that the remaining part of it would continue to operate. And so the announcement came out last week that it will not, and that the Salt Palace will close in early 2027, trying to honor as many existing contracts as possible before closing. They will close until late 2030 or early 2031. They'll be fully ready for the Olympics in 2034. And the good news for us is, and the bad news for the economy, is that the Salt Palace has been doing very, very, very well. and really doing well on a national basis in terms of booking events. But the good news for us is they're going to try to shift as many events as they can to Mountain America Expo Center. In some cases, even because it's so much smaller, breaking an event into two. And maybe in one case, like doing half of it simultaneously Anyway, they're really going to try to accommodate as much as they can. It sounds like it's going to be a heavy lift. But I'll find out more. We'll have our first convention facilities advisory board meeting Tuesday since this announcement was made. And so next time I see you, hopefully I'll be able to come back with some more information about what happens downtown and maybe the upside about what happens in Sandy by carrying some of those conventions here.

Miss Stroud, do you have anything? Thank you, Madam Chair. So this last week, I attended the Shop and Stroll, so economic development over at Union Square. I've done this for the past couple of years, and excellent turnout. Great weather, but so many of the stores there, they really, as I went around and spoke, as I ran into Mr. Mecham, they talked about that they've had so many more people coming in, going inside the stores, and people that hadn't ever been to the store before. So it wasn't like they were just going to one of the restaurants there. They actually came down for specifically that reason for the shop and stroll. So it was, once again, another great, well thought out event. And the store owners there really appreciated it. It was well done. It was well done. Let's see. Historic barbecue. So coming up tomorrow night. I was out passing out flyers this weekend, trying to get them dropped off. So let's just get the residents there.

5 to 6.30.

5 to 6.30. Bicentennial Park. be you know so council members you're invited I think it's probably maybe Liz put it on but or Chris you know somebody put it on our calendar earlier but I love to see people there.

Let's go back to Dustin. Do you have anything for us Dustin.

You know I'm going to forego tonight I'll include everything on Friday when I send out my written report.

All right. Shane.

I have one item. We had a fire over the weekend. Would you be willing to allow Chief McConaughey to come down and brief you on that fire really quick.

Is that OK? Yeah. So yes, the Saturday afternoon, as you know if you were around, it was hot, very windy. Always gets my blood pressure a little elevated. But we did have a start down in Dimpledale Park near Dimpledale Lane, kind of the northeast section of the park right in the new development. I think it's Dimpledale Orchard perhaps. But anyway, fortunately, we had a quick response. I think 12 different units, close to 30, 35 personnel came just attacking it in a mad fashion to get that extinguished. And we're very, very lucky. I think that had we been up the calendar another six weeks with that material drying out anymore, we wouldn't have been able to stop it, but they were able to hold it to two acres, and we've been working with the developer and the two contractors that are building in that region, and we're working with some immediate solutions. But we did post an update yesterday after the investigation, and it was determined that it was caused by cigarettes that were left from smoking on site from the construction workers there. Really unfortunate, fortunate that it was stopped, but we're working with them to remedy that immediately. So it could have been so much worse and just frustrating that it was pure negligence. So anyway, not sure if you have any questions on that.

It was right up there and I smelled the smoke and my dogs were howling. The sirens were going for like half an hour. I'm like, something big is going on.

A lot of things played in our favor, but it could have been, I mean, considering that you're right on the edge of 700 acres of wooey, and it's right there. It could have been so much worse. So just giving you that update, we'll continue working with them to remedy that.

Chief, we're likely to have a brutal fire season.

Yes.

And a brutal fireworks season. And we know that we're not allowed to do anything with our maps. We do have prohibited areas. Are you going to work with Susan to get out a campaign to just let people know where fireworks are prohibited and all that good stuff that they need to know to keep us as safe as possible?

Yes, we are, we do, and we'll continue to do this every year. We already worked with a campaign with UFA and Salt Lake City, and we had a live news event and a video that we've shared since the beginning of the season, knowing that it was going to be especially hot this year. So as we do every year, we've ordered already the digital signs, the display boards and the other signs that we put up every year along with our social media posts to campaign and educate.

That's a good question. Okay, so you know how the governor declares state of emergency? Can we use that in any way to further ban fireworks?