Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

Thank you very much. When I first came.

Don't start yet. Tell Reed don't start yet.

We're going to get it going. We don't want to let this crowd have to wait. All right. So with that, oh, I got the hammer. I'd like to call to order the July 22nd 2026 meeting of the Sandy Springs Planning Commission and I'd like to turn it over to Sam for some announcements.

Thank you, Chair. Good evening, Mr. Chair, Vice Chair, and members of the Planning Commission. Today is July 22nd, 2026. Please confirm your attendance as I call your name. Chair Reed Haggard.

I am here.

Vice Chair Andy Porter.

Here.

Commissioner Robin Conklin is absent. Commissioner Karen Trollovich, absent. Commissioner Sherwin Clements. Here. Commissioner Steve Leeds.

Here.

Commissioner Jay O'Meara, and he might be running a little bit late. And I'll go ahead and your attendance has been confirmed and will be included in the official meeting minutes. Now I will read the announcements regarding the decorum and procedures of the Planning Commission meeting. The Planning Commission duty is to review and provide recommendations on applications for legislative review, including text amendments, comprehensive plan, character area maps amendments, zoning maps amendments, rezoning, and conditional use permits. The petition will be heard in the sequence listed on the posted agenda. Following are some of the rules and procedures for this part of the meeting. The applicant and all those speaking in support of the application will be allowed a total of 10 minutes to present the petition. The applicant may choose to save some of the time for rebuttal following the presentation by the opposition. The opposition will be allowed a total of 10 minutes to present its position. Since the burden of proof is upon the applicant, the applicant will be allowed to make closing remarks provided time remain from the original allotted time. Staff will keep track of the time for both sides. Those called to speak will be taken in the order that the public comment cards were received by the planning and zoning clerk prior to the beginning of tonight's meeting. All speakers will identify themselves by name, address, and if applicable, organization before the beginning of their presentation. Demonstration of any sort within the chamber is prohibited. So please refrain from any applause, cheering, booing, outburst, or dialogue when the person is speaking. Please show the same respect to the person speaking that you will expect to receive. The applicant shall not submit materials to the Planning Commission during the meeting. All materials should be submitted to the Community Development Department at least 30 days prior to the scheduled meeting for inclusion in the normal distribution of packagings to the Commission. Thank you, Chair.

Thanks, Sam. We have an agenda here that includes a work session to talk about the next chapter updates, which I've seen, and they're very exciting, so I'm looking forward to that. We also have one case, which is some edits to the development code. I want to make sure, though, it says it's presented by Ginger Sotel, Director of Community Development. We're getting the big guns out tonight for this? Okay, so that's accurate? That's accurate. All right. All right. That's accurate then. All right. So that's our meeting agenda. A motion to approve.

I make a motion to approve the agenda for tonight.

Thank you. Ms. Clement seconded by Mr. Leeds all in favor. Great. So the agenda for tonight is approved. The second thing on, on my little notes here is our, uh, minutes from last meeting. I'm looking through them. Uh, we had a lot of conversation. But it looks pretty accurate so most to approve or a motion on the Minutes from the last meeting chair make a motion to approve the minutes from our last thanks miss Clemens seconded Seconded by mr. Porter this time so all in favor so moved and approved and let's get on to our agenda shall we

Thank you, Sam. Good evening, Chair, Vice Chair, and Planning Commission members. My name is Sukriti Ghosh. I'm a principal with RHI, and I will be presenting the updates to the next chapter, the ongoing comprehensive plan process, in the next 10 minutes or so. There you go. Hold on.

One second.

Thank you. Thank you very much. So today we are going to be sharing with you where we are in the schedule. We'll share with you the community engagement that we have been working on to date. Allison Senior is here from TSW. They are leading the community engagement. So if you have any questions, comments, please share with us. So we'll know and implement that throughout the whole process. And then from just the last month, we have been hearing a lot from the community. So we will share with you some of the very preliminary findings from all of those and then end up with the next steps. This goes the other way. So where we are in the schedule, we are literally month four of this 12 to 16 month process. I say 12 to 16 month is because six to seven months is very focused on the community engagement. We are literally one month into the community engagement process. We had a public meeting last month around this time. We had great, great numbers of attendees. attending that, and after that we had a lot of stakeholder meetings, we had pop-up meetings, so I'll share all of that with you. But as you can see, the cadence of all of the meetings are like, we are meeting with the Mayor and Council and the Planning Commission, and then the next month we are going out to the public, getting their feedback, bringing it back to you all to share with you what we have heard, get some feedback from you, and process the information, and then going to the next steps. So we are going to be having this kind of a cadence till December or January of 2027. As I mentioned before, these are some of the pictures and the list of items that we have been engaging ourselves in along with the city staff. We had the first public meeting. As I mentioned, it was a lot of members of the community who came out, over 90 of them. We had a lot of pop-ups already in the last month. As you can see on the right-hand side, the Farmers Market, the Juneteenth Festival, the Sesame Street Live, Stars and Stripes. We already attended one concert series. We'll be attending more. The World Cup Watch Parties. And then, as you know, this comprehensive plan is also being worked on with the recreation, the Parks Master Plan, which is a great way to think about the quality of life of the whole community. So as part of that recreation, the Parks Master Plan, The Carlos Perez with Perez Planning and Design along with Brent with the Recreation Parks, they're going to be hosting a pop-up at the Overlook Park at Morgan Falls this Saturday, July 25th. So there will be a lot of more pop-ups that will be coming up, but we're also meeting with stakeholders. We had a couple of stakeholder meetings in the last couple of days. We met with the stakeholders last month. So we met primarily with the city departments, Council of Neighborhoods, Art Sandy Springs, the Conservancy, nonprofits and developers. but we are planning a lot, lot more. We had a brainstorming session with the city staff in the last couple of days. We prepared, TSW prepared a public engagement plan, and there's a laundry list of all the people that we are going to be meeting with. And then, of course, meeting with the leadership. We are having discussions with mayor and council, of course, with the planning commission, board of appeals, and the advisory committee. We had The second advisory committee meeting last Monday, this Monday. So it was very helpful to hear from the advisory committee members. The public meeting number one, there was a lot of activities that we did. It started with a presentation to provide a brief overview of what we are getting into in the next few months. And then we had a lot of hands-on activities, whether it's a map map activity or a budget allocation activity or putting up post-its of what we think about Sandy Springs today. So there is a lot of engagement. One thing that we have heard from the participants that they liked having all of those activities. So we are continuing to have those activities not only for the public meeting but also for all of the pop-ups and going out to the community events that we'll be hosting or participating in in the next few months. With regards to pop-ups, as you can see, these are some pictures from the Stars and Stripes Farmers Market, Juneteenth, and as you can see on the Juneteenth, we have these kind of boards where people are able to provide their comments and feedback on the fly. You probably know this, and you have probably visited. The plan is called The Next Chapter. It's kind of a play on the next 10. So what's the next chapter? So in your package, you have the QR code. The planthenextchapter.org is the website. We are updating the website on a weekly basis. So there are a lot of engagement activities that are happening on the website. And please keep a look out at the Engage tab. There's a lot of tabs in there. Keep a look out at the Engage tab. We are going to be uploading two surveys. One is a conjoined survey for the comprehensive plan. And one is a parks and recreation park survey. So that is going to be uploaded sometime this week. So keep a look out for those two surveys. With regards to numbers of engagement, and again, the point is this is just in one month. We had reached over 400 people just at the pop-ups. We had stakeholder meetings, 12 stakeholder meetings last month, and we had more this week. 94 attendees at public meeting number one. 1,700 unique visitors at the engagement hub. and over 3,200 comments and counting. By the time that I'm speaking right now, I'm sure that has gone over 3,300. So that's a great momentum that we are seeing from the community. And I think we are hearing from a lot of people in the community that they are getting a lot of notifications and information about how to get participation into this whole process. So from all of the feedback that we have received so far, this is kind of a snapshot and a capture of what we have been hearing. And mind you, this is a very, very preliminary feedback. And this will change as we go through the process. And this is only based on public meeting number one, the stakeholder meetings, the advisory committee meetings. So some of the things that are coming out from those kind of discussions are preservation of the neighborhood character. walkability, preservation and protection and enhancement of the tree canopy, affordability is always on people's mind, balancing growth, providing housing options for young families, stormwater and flooding, connectivity, site paths. So as you can see, there are a lot of different issues and challenges and opportunities with all of this. And one quick note about this word cloud is the bigger the font that you see, more we have heard about that from the different community members. So it'll be interesting to see as we go through the whole process how that changes or doesn't change. So we are keeping an eye out for that. So next couple of slides, I'm going to go through how those preliminary feedback has been organized between the different elements of the comprehensive plan. If you recall, the next 10 had five different elements. So the first one is the land use and development. And on the land use and development, we have been hearing a strong desire for balancing growth while protecting the neighborhood character, although there are some concerns about overdevelopment, building heights, and the pace of the multifamily construction. There is general support for revitalizing underutilized aging commercial properties, especially look at the north end a little bit more. There is support for mixed-use development and, of course, improve the appearance of Roswell Road, which is our core, like the main street. There is also, we have heard, there is need for more neighborhood-serving retail. On the transportation side of things, we have heard concerns about traffic congestions, specifically along Roswell Road. And we have heard desire for more walkability with all of the sidewalk and side paths people like, how the city is acting proactively and implementing on some of the trails and side paths. There is a desire for better regional connectivity. We have heard that. And there is support for expanding the trail network. On the economic development side, we have heard a desire to support a diverse workforce. One of the big strengths of the city of Sandy Springs is the diversity in the northern Fulton areas. So how can we support that? Concerns about over commercialization, which pairs with the preference of which existing commercial areas can be revitalized. There is also a desire to enhance Sandy Springs regional awareness and identity. I think more and more that we see the cities maturing, I think that identity is getting more and more out there. And on the housing side, as I mentioned before, housing affordability is coming out as a top concern and providing affordable housing options for young families, empty nesters, seniors, and those looking to downsize. Opinions on multifamily are kind of mixed. Some would like to see more apartments. Others feel like there are already too many. And there is concern about residential lot assemblages and teardowns, and I'm sure that you are hearing cases throughout the year regarding those. And those are related to impacts on affordability, the tree canopy, the neighborhood character, maybe loss of that, and stormwater management. On the green space, natural systems, and sustainability side, we have heard a desire to preserve, expand, and upgrade parks and green space. There is general support for protecting and expanding the tree canopy, desire to address the the flooding and stormwater issues and support for improving access to Chattahoochee River for outdoor recreation, understanding that a lot of that frontage along Chattahoochee River is privately owned. So how can we find those specific opportunities for outdoor recreation? And last but not the least, we have heard a lot of desire for more playgrounds and places to play. So with that, with regards to the recreation of the Parks Master Plan connected to that green space, these are some of the engagement findings to date. So you can see some similarities between what we have been hearing from the comprehensive plan process in between the recreation of the Parks Master Plan. So connectivity, trails, and access are desirable community themes. They are coming out as big desirable community themes. The residents appear to support both protecting existing parks and expanding the system to include more parks. Parks are generally viewed as community gathering spaces, but not just as recreation facilities. There appears to be a strong demand for inclusive multi-generational recreation opportunities. And finally, the community appears to be willing to invest in parks and recreation. Paris Planning and Design during the public meeting number one had a budget allocation exercise and there was a lot of feedback that we received from that and these are the reflection of that. So part of that discussion in the public meeting number one, we're asking how much or whether people are willing to invest in parks and recreation, and there is a lot of desire to invest in that because people believe that parks and recreation are a strong asset for the city of Sandy Springs. With regards to next steps, we are having these leadership work sessions. We had one last night with the Marin Council. We are having one with you today. Community engagement, as I mentioned before, the conjoined and the recreation, the park survey will be released to public this week. It was more, the last month was more the statistically valid portion. It was targeted to specific community members. Now it is going to be released to public. The public meeting number two, we have scheduled August 17th and the 20th. 17th is at the south end and the 20th is at the north end. And there are a lot of pop-ups and engagement activities that we have planned. And in parallel to that, while we are doing all of these community engagements, we are also working on existing condition study for the whole comprehensive plan, which we are calling Sandy Springs Today. So along with that, we'll be developing draft policies after we have heard back from the community. So with that. That's the end of the presentation. I'm happy to respond to any questions. We have team members from here. They'll be happy to come up and respond to your questions, too. Thank you for the time.

Thank you. So I do have a question. Thank you. So always so incredibly thorough, your presentation. So with this first set of meetings that you've had and the pop-ups, one thing I'm curious about, particularly when you look at the key themes that came out on your earlier slide of what people were wanting and looking for, how organic were those answers? Or were they choosing from options, a variety of choices in these different categories? Or were they organically feeding in these responses on their own?

I'll let Allison from TSW to respond to that. But one response to that is we are very early in the process. So we wanted to make it a blank slate or a clean canvas kind of a situation. So we are not feeding information. So this is based on what we have heard from them and then understanding what are the key themes that are coming out from what we have heard from them. Allison, do you have any additional thoughts?

Hi, yes, I can add, let me just lower this a little bit, I'm kind of a shorty. Yeah, to answer that question too, so like Secretary said, kind of in the beginning we want to keep the questions really broad, just to kind of see what people are saying, see if we, we don't want to lead people, you know, too early into conclusions, but some of the activities we did in the beginning, at least on the comprehensive plan side, we had one where we asked folks, like we gave them a prompt, like what will the next chapter have, and people would fill in the blanks. So some of those answers were things like, housing affordability, great parks, walkability. We had an activity where we had people say things they really like and want to kind of keep moving forward, and then things they didn't really want to see moving forward. So, you know, things that I want to continue to see were things like I want to see our schools continue to get better. I would like to see our parks continue to improve. And then on the other side, some of those answers that I could think of at the top of my head were expensive housing, multi-family, loss of tree canopy, and then the final activity we did for the comprehensive plan was a mapping activity where people had, they did have three prompts, strengths, ideas, concerns, and they could write down on a little flag, kind of like, this is something I see as a strength, and they could put it on a map. This is something I see as an idea, and they can put it on the map. And so taking all of that together is where we got, these were all the themes that would pop up. And not just from that, but also we had similar activities at the pop-up engagements. We also, in some of the conversations we had with those stakeholder groups, those themes also were consistently emerging. And just because Carlos isn't here, I could speak a little bit to the park and the recreation of parks activities. Those were a combination of having some more organic answers, but some of them, those activities, and he had maybe nine activities, so I'm trying to think of all the ones he did or which, but there were some that were a little bit more open-ended and some where it was like, okay, you have a choice of things and you can put some dots and tell us which choices appeal to you the most. So those had, I would say, more of a vein of more choices, but I think as we move through this process, there will be more opportunities to start really diving deeper and starting to get more into like what you're describing, like giving people choices and having them pick the best choice.

And thank you. I actually wasn't suggesting that we do it. It's more of a question out of curiosity because when I'm looking at some of the terms that I could have one definition for it, and I think if we went down around the room, we would probably have several different definitions. Oh, absolutely. And there were a couple that came up, terms that came up, and I was like, I wonder what they really meant by that.

Right.

And were they choosing from a menu or were they coming up with regional connectivity? What do they mean when they say regional connectivity? I don't know what that means from that perspective of that person. Does that mean they want to have more public transportation? Does that mean, like, what is that? Right. You know, that, so I think as we go forward, being able to have an idea of the terminology and what the ideas are that are coming through. Because I think we can come up with our own definitions and assumptions. Like I saw the one about the parks and recs and wanting to have inclusive and then multi-generational. And it's like, what are they saying, including multi-generational things? Or are they saying they want to have adaptive sports? Are they? Yeah. that that would just be helpful as we're thinking about planning.

Oh, absolutely. Yeah. And when I, when I meant earlier by like, we're going to give kind of people more choices, I think that's kind of what we meant was we're going to start narrowing down a little bit more, exactly what you said. What does housing affordability, it's been a long day. I can't talk anymore. Housing affordability really mean what does preserving tree canopy really mean? What does walkability really mean to us? And then I think there was some conversations Monday night about metrics, like maybe as we start to move this process, that might be an opportunity to start thinking about, um, not just defining it further, but what does it actually look like? How do we know we're being successful in meeting these goals?

And I understand that the next meeting is you're going to have a south and then you're going to have a north. Yes. Are you seeing a lot of differences in the responses you're getting based on our different neighborhoods and communities within the city?

Not yet. I know with the survey, the conjoint survey, I think they're kind of looking at different by council district. So I think that might start to give us a little bit more, once we start analyzing those, that might give us a little bit more of an idea of what people in the north end are saying versus the south end. I will say one thing we've heard consistently about the north end, which is, again, a need for revitalization, redevelopment. So that, when you say north end, that's like the thing that's been, people been kind of throwing out there is, you know, we want to see more revitalization. I don't know about the south end stuff. I've heard a lot of excitement about City Springs and the expansion of City Springs, but I feel like if, That's about as far as I've heard as people from the north and the south end. But I think as we start to analyze the conjoined survey results, we'll start to see some patterns. Great. Thank you. Thank you.

The presentation tonight was a little bit brief, which fine. But I don't know if you can share the presentation you made on Monday. I don't know if that's something you can share. But it had a lot more detail about the specificity of categories and the number of responses and the percentage of responses and all of that. I think that could be helpful if that's something that we could share with the group up here. Steve, you had something?

I have a question. The first public meeting, it seemed to me, by the way, it was very well attended and very well handled. It seemed to me that it was a much older group. And that got me thinking, well, and I know on Monday night you talked about that aspect. When you take that and you take some of the pop-ups that you're having and the meetings that you're having with stakeholders, how do you level all that up? And is that then leveled against the conjoined survey which is statistically validated, or can you just spend maybe a minute on how you start getting to that result?

Yeah, absolutely. And I believe with the conjoined survey we did ask for demographic data, so we'll be able to maybe parse out some of those results from what came from younger folks, so people my age and younger, versus people who are 65 and older and those in between. having that demographic data is gonna help us a lot with that. And you're right, I think at the public meeting there was a bit of an older crowd. A couple of younger folks too. I will say with the pop-ups, we've been talking to more younger people. I've been seeing a lot more young people with young children, people who are kind of in that mid-20s range. We've also seen some folks who We've also seen a lot more minority folks at these pop-ups as well. So I think this has been great opportunities for us to be able to have more conversations and at least reach those folks and just say, hey, there's a plan happening. We want you to be a part of it. When I was at the World Cup watch party on Sunday, there was actually an elementary school, a local elementary school, and now it escapes me which one it was, but they were having a little water day over at the splash pad. So I went over there and introduced myself to a few members of the PTO and said, hey, by the way, we're doing this comprehensive plan update. People with children are really hard to reach. We'd love, you know, just talk about the engagement. We really would love to get you all involved. And one of them said, oh my gosh, yes, I heard about that meeting. I wanted to go, but this happened. And another parent said, oh my gosh, yes, I heard about that. I got an email about this, and I'm really excited about it. So they're hearing about the plan. So I guess, I'm going to make sure I answer your question right. So yes, at the public meetings, we're going to probably hear from an older crowd, and that you know, events we're going to hear from younger crowd. It'll be interesting with the conjoint how some of these comments are kind of starting to maybe associate with different age groups. But at this time, it's going to be really hard to say with the meetings, too, because we've only had one public meeting. We've only had a handful of pop-ups. But as we continue to move through the process, I think there will definitely be some opportunities to continue to maybe start seeing some additional patterns emerge.

That brings me to the question of communication, which we talked about the other night, so maybe you can lighten here, of the communication of the surveys, the communication of the surveys that are going out, or the communication of the engagement hubs. So how are we doing that? Because that has a big impact on who we reach.

Yeah, so before I'll come to that, just wanted to add one more point. We had a whole day of meetings with the nonprofits today and some of the harder to reach communities are coming, the nonprofits are serving those community members. So we have been talking to them on how they can be champions to bring their constituents over and how we can go out to them and how can they be the collaborators between the comprehensive plan team and the constituents that they're serving because they're the hardest to reach communities. So we are intentionally planning to go out to those nonprofit agencies and getting feedback when their constituents are going to be visiting their events and their programs there. So there's a lot of different ways that we are engaging with that. With regards to the conjoint and the survey, I think the city communications has been sending out a lot of media releases, the socials. So the people are getting connected to what is coming out. And also the advisory committee members as champions of the whole city, we have a task for them to use their resources kind of the position of being at the advisory committee members go out and recruit people or share the information. So there's a lot of different ways that we are trying to share the information of all of the surveys that are going to be coming out. It's not only the surveys, but also all of the public meetings will have a lot of different activities. So each month, all of the people that were not able to attend the public meetings will have an opportunity to engage with those activities online. So it's not a static kind of a situation where the survey is going to be up there for three, four months, but we're going to be changing the engagement hub so that people, when they come back to the website, they don't feel like there's not enough opportunity for them to provide feedback. Because we need to lead them, the community, we are very intentional in leading them through the process of, first of all, listening to them, getting some of the themes that you saw, and trying to distill some of the themes and getting to the point of what exactly do they meant by that before we get into the policies. we are very intentional about those three-step process, listening, understanding, developing policies, and refining policies kind of a situation. Does that answer your question? Sure does. Okay, thanks.

And for everybody up here, if you just scan this QR code right here, it'll get you onto the engagement hub, and you can participate in all the various activities.

Great, thank you. Also, I do want to mention that the presentation from Monday night is on our public meetings page on Civic Clerk as available, but I can send it to Planning Commission members.

Thank you, Michelle. Thank you so much. Thank you very much. Thanks for the opportunity. Keep up the great work. We're counting on you. All right, Sam, shall we move on to our case for tonight?

Yes, Chair. Thank you. Okay, so we have one case tonight. We have 2026-002. It's TA-26-2. It's a development code edit, code edits, an ordinance to amend the development code and technical manual presented by Ginger Sotow, our Director of Community Development.

Are you going to advance the slides, or should I get the clicker?

I can advance them for you.

You just let me know when to go. All right. Good evening. Planning Commission.

Should we clap because it's Ginger?

No. Okay. That's not necessary, but I appreciate the thought.

I think a bow might be more appropriate. Oh, a bow.

All right. So the first one up, if we could go to the next slide, please. We'll go to the next one. Okay. We have a series of text amendments tonight. Most of them are just housekeeping items, cleaning up some of the text, and then I believe there is one kind of materially different than the others. So let's start with the garage entry. First, Section 652 . This is a rule that you're not allowed to have 40% or more than 40% of the front of your home be covered with a garage. And in the text of the language, it says garage doors. So when somebody has a really tight lot and you're only measuring the garage door, sometimes you can get away with having two in there. But I think it was not the intent of that section of the code. That section of the code was intended to mean the entire portion of the garage structure, so from end to end, including the doors and the space usually in between the two doors, if there are two. So we're simply, for this one, removing the word doors so that the interpretation is clearer. So that's that one. Anybody have any questions on that one?

This is going for detached units. It does not affect townhomes.

It shouldn't affect townhomes at all. It's just for the single family. I think it's in the RD district. RD, R-U, R-T. Well, it is in RT. Typically, it's not interpreted for the RT because they have to face the street. So it doesn't affect that. ALL RIGHT. NEXT ONE. THANK YOU. THE PROPOSED REFERENCE FOR THE ENHANCED COMMUNITY BENEFIT LIST TO BE LOCATED AT THE BOTTOM OF THE ECB MATRIX IN THE DEVELOPMENT CODE. SO THIS IS JUST SIMPLY PUTTING THE REFERENCE IN THE CORRECT PLACE IN THE CODE. THAT'S IT. THERE'S NO CHANGE TO IT WHATSOEVER. JUST PUTTING IT IN THE CORRECT PLACE. FOR THE ALLOWED USE TABLE, WE HAVE AN ERRONEOUS NUMBERING CONVENTION THERE AT THE BOTTOM OF NEIGHBORHOOD UNIT. I BELIEVE THE NUMBERING SAYS F. SO IT'S 7.3.1 AND IT WAS .F AND IT WAS CORRECTED TO E, THE LETTERING PORTION OF IT WASN'T IN CORRECT ORDER. That was just simply a text correction. The next one is for place of assembly. And here, this is all new language, so the section in blue is all new language, so that there is consistency with similar type uses for places of assembly, which include things like place of worship and the like, so that every single one that falls under that category has to follow these basic use standards. So we're removing, because before it only said outdoor areas may be provided as accessory to the primary use. We're now saying that for areas of assembly or places of assembly that they have to meet these basic use standards and separation distances from protected neighborhoods. Does that make sense?

Yes, can I ask a question? Sure. Does a school consider a place of assembly?

It is, but it is separately stated in the code as a separate use item. So that already does have to follow these two in blue, A and B. So places of worship have to follow that, so do schools.

They're already in place?

Yes. Okay. But a simple place of assembly for something like maybe a, I know we don't have them now, but like Knights of Columbus, right?

Kind of like a brotherhood.

What about a bar? Well, that's a, we don't have bars in the city. We have restaurants that sell alcohol.

Okay.

Retail follows its own rules and does not fall into this category. Okay. But it would be something like a meeting house, if you will.

Thank you.

All right. Next one, please. For this one, this one's pretty easy. This is for motion picture and film. Before, we just listed the word film studio in one section, and then in another section we had motion picture. So here we're putting them together because they're basically the same thing. We really don't see that there has been a difference between the two uses, if you will. So anywhere you see motion picture, you will see film studio, and anywhere you see film, you'll see motion picture. All right, and then the next one. So this is one of the new ones. So this is new for you to consider. We found that there's very little space within the city proper where you have legal industrial type warehouse uses. We have very few IX zone districts and CC zone districts. So there is a very unique set of warehouses that's up on, what is it, Dunwoody Club Road? I THINK. AND DURING WHEN WE LAST REZONED THE ENTIRE CITY THAT WAS ZONED TO A DISTRICT THAT REALLY DOESN'T ALLOW THESE WAREHOUSE TYPE USES EVEN THOUGH THAT'S HOW THE ENTIRE COMPLEX IS DESIGNED. SO WE'VE BEEN WORKING WITH THEM FOR A WHILE AND MOST OF THE USES IN THERE ARE GRANDFATHERED BUT THEY WANTED SOME KIND OF assurance that they could continue these uses. It is something I think that the city really needs because like I said, there are very few properties that have these kinds of opportunities for like a chocolatier. He goes in there and he can make his chocolates. He can distribute them out of there. It's a small kind of a manufacturing, if you will, type of space. So we saw the need. AND WE FEEL THAT THIS IS A GOOD CHANGE AND ADDITION TO THE USE TABLE TO ALLOW FLEX SPACE IN THE TX DISTRICT. SO IT'S VERY SPECIFIC. THERE ARE ONLY A FEW PROPERTIES AND THEY'RE MOSTLY, I THINK, ON THE NORTH END THAT ARE ZONED TX. AND WE FEEL THIS WOULD BE AN APPROPRIATE CHANGE. SO ANY QUESTIONS?

The property you're talking about, is that where, for example, Pontoon Brewery is, the K-9 facility is, and City Springs Theater practice facility is?

I don't know about Sandy Springs Theater.

Well, they're right there by Pontoon. I think that's got to be it.

I'm not sure of all of the tenants in there.

It's kind of crossed from Coca-Cola United.

Yes. And this was created at the request of the owner of that property? to give a little more definition or flex?

Right, more assurance that as they draw new tenants in and swap out spaces, the challenge is let's say an entire space turns over to all office, which is allowed. But let's say it's there for a year and so they don't have warehouse use anymore. In theory, they lose the warehouse use because it wasn't used for over a year. They lose that non-conforming status. So then if that office leaves and they want to rent it to somebody who needs a more flexible kind of a space, some office, maybe some warehouse storage, in theory, we couldn't approve that, even though the entire development is really designed for it. So this is giving them more of an assurance and other buildings like it in the TX district, that flexibility to be able to rent it. And it's needed by the folks that kind of do that work here in the city. Any other questions?

Thank you, Ginger.

Sure. All right, next one. Guest houses. This is just an erroneous reference in the code, so we corrected that numbering. That's it. THE TREE ORDINANCE, ANY TIME WE COLLECT MONEY FOR ESCRO WE HOLD IT FOR THREE YEARS AND AFTER THE CERTIFICATE OF OCCUPANCY HAS BEEN ISSUED TO THE HOMEOWNER WE WAIT THREE WHOLE YEARS TO SEE IF THE TREE LIVES OR DIES. THAT WAS ALWAYS THE POLICY THAT WE FOLLOWED AND SOMEHOW IT GOT CHANGED TO SIX SOMEWHERE ALONG THE WAY AND THAT'S NOT CORRECT AND WE'VE ALWAYS FOLLOWED THREE So this is just a correction of an error. Next one, please. Any questions? This is, again, another kind of a simple fix for us. Anytime we have a large development, usually commercial or a subdivision where they have, like, a maintenance agreement required for, say, a pond, a detention pond, uh... we found through uh... trying to go through the process asking for it prior to the issuance of a permit is very difficult and we always ended up having to wait until the end of the project because that's when we get all of the documents the as-built which are required to file for these maintenance agreements so we're simply changing it uh... from before the issuance of the permit to before the issuance of the certificate of occupancy at the end of the process. That's it. Any questions? Excellent. All right. Here... Are we allowed to ask questions right now? Well, if you had a question on anything that I've talked about so far, sure.

The one you just went through, what happens if they fail the inspection?

You mean on this one?

It says prior to the...

Prior to the issuance of the certificate of occupancy.

Okay, so they're waiting on their certificate of occupancy and they do an inspection of the pond and they fail.

Well, then we wouldn't issue the certificate of occupancy. So it has to come in. It has to clear all of our hurdles. So there are inspections made on the detention facility. It's then... given to our city engineer for him to review the documents. So there are all sorts of inspection reports that are required that go along with it that he reviews. And we make sure that it's cleaned out prior to them turning it over to whomever it is. It's the HOA or the building owner. So we make sure that it's in operational order when it's turned over to them and that the documents reflect that.

Okay. Thank you.

You're welcome. All right. So in this section, tree removal permits fall under land disturbance permits, that category. So that's why we're removing it. And then the temporary use, we're just taking that out and saying, calling everything else other. That's it. All right. And then here, this is the other kind of new INFORMATION. THIS IS NOT A CORRECTION. THIS IS WE'VE HAD SOME ISSUES WITH FOLKS LOOKING TO HAVE DIFFERENT TYPES OF MATERIALS FOR FENCES. ONE OF THEM BEING VINYL FENCES. We have discussed different ways to perhaps go about this. One way would be to allow different materials to come in. We didn't think that was the right way to go. One way was to give the director the authority to approve other materials as they may come up in development projects, and that also was not looked upon favorably. And so then this was the third kind of... option that we came to to try to help these folks in certain situations where if by chance they happen to install the wrong type of fence and it's a material that's not permitted by the code that this would give them the ability to go ask the Board of Appeals for relief. So that's the genesis and the reason for this section being here and we're asking for your thoughts and ideas on this.

So Ginger, I have a couple of questions. Can you tell us what, right now it's strictly prohibited, certain types of materials. What types of materials would then qualify the applicant to go for a variance? What other kinds? You mentioned vinyl. What about barbed wire or razor wire or whatever? And then, two-part question. Then, for the Board of Appeals, what is the criteria that they bring to the consideration of whether to grant a variance? Because I have a concern that this opens the door to a lot of potential issues and requests for variance. And I understand that there are, I've heard a few times that just because a variance is given, it's not precedential. I think in reality, it is. And so I have this concern about this opening up, I won't say the floodgates, but to a number of variance requests and what the grounds would be for that.

So to your first question where you talked about the different types of materials, it could be any material that's specifically prohibited, and there aren't that many. I think it's just vinyl for fences. and barbed wire. But I think barbed wire falls in another section of the code. I'm going to have to get back to you because I know you asked me this question and I did not figure out the answer. It had to do with whether or not the barbed wire they could ask for a variance for it. I'm not sure about the answer to that. So, to answer the next part of your question about, ask me again?

The criteria that the board uses in determining whether to grant it or not, whatever that request is, is it economic, is it So aesthetic, blah, blah, blah.

So it cannot be economic. And everybody's interpretation of aesthetics is different. So it's not an aesthetic kind of a, there is no section or criteria for how good it looks. The one thing I can tell you about the criteria is they have to provide a hardship. One of the main criteria is, is it self-imposed? in theory if somebody builds a fence it's the wrong material and now they want to ask for a variation or a variance from the board of appeals for that it would be very difficult if not impossible for staff to support it because it is a self-imposed hardship whether or not the the property owner installed it himself or his uh... contractor did is immaterial he owns the property he's responsible for what happens to it so We say then that he is responsible for that installation, and therefore it's his responsibility. And so for those reasons, staff probably would not be able to support the application. But that does not mean that they cannot go and ask the board. They can still go to the board and ask regardless that we recommend denial. So they can still ask, and the board can still grant it if that's how they see fit.

Okay, thank you.

Any other questions on this?

One more. Review again, why did you just not leave fence in?

Leave it in? Because there it says you can't ask for a variance for a fence.

So basically, you're allowing variances for fence. You're not allowing for wall and slash building materials.

Correct.

And in most of these cases, they're after the fact, correct?

Yes.

The fence has been built. It's in violation of the code. And the people are coming back going, oh, I didn't know, hey. And you're like, well, no, here's all the paperwork that you've filed and everything. But we want a variance to leave our vinyl fence up that we put up.

Right. But it says that variances are not allowed for any of the following.

Right.

And it says building materials. So... You couldn't argue with vinyl, right?

Well, because it's part of a fence... you're saying that it is allowed in this change.

Right.

Even though fence vinyl slash wood would be a building material.

Right. We're talking, when we say building materials, when we talk about, you know, if a building needs to have brick, stone, or stucco, and it says it specifically in the code, that's what we're talking about building materials. We're not.

Not the building materials required to build the fence. Correct.

Do you think it should have more clarification? Because it does look like it's an open opportunity. People are always looking for opportunity. Loopholes, as we would call them.

No, I get it. I see that. It just struck me that the example was vinyl, which in my view is a building material. But it's not allowed to do that.

The vinyl, I don't think, is allowed as a commercial building material in the code. It is allowed as a residential building material, though, but not for fences.

Okay. I'd be tempted to separate them.

All right. I'll see what we can do in the rewrite as we go to mayor and council. I'll try to square it away. All right. All right. Then we have the technical manual. Here we go. We've removed the word draft, which probably should have been removed a long time ago. And then we're simply changing points to credits here to be consistent throughout the document. And that's it. Oh, wait. No, wait. There's one more. Questions? Any other questions?

I don't think so.

Now, you can vote on them all together as one, or if there was some you weren't sure about and you wanted to pull one out, that's fine, too.

Okay. Can I just ask one more quick question? Sure, you can do anything you want. Thanks. Thanks, Dad. Kind of follow up on what Jay was saying about the townhouses. In the garage thing, let me see if I'm reading this correctly. We're just making the change in 6.5.B.2. Single unit detached.

Correct.

So should we eliminate the RT from the equation?

Michelle, do you have any thoughts?

Okay.

Yeah, I agree with that.

Can you have a detached townhome?

By definition, no.

I don't know that anybody's ever built one here that are detached.

Are there many cluster homes? I can see where zero lot line homes, which in essence are almost a hybrid townhome. I don't know if it's ever applicable. As we get denser and denser, I can see where there might be something that might apply.

All right.

All right, well, let's not get too deep into the questions here until it's really appropriate because do we have any comment cards? Sam?

Chair, I think it was one that I put at each one of your desks that came in this evening.

So with that, let's open the public discussion portion for this case and hear from the public. Who do we have, Sam?

Are you John? Yes.

Okay.

We have John. That's the one you guys have that came in later today.

Good afternoon, or good evening, everyone. My name is John Huang. I'm with a company called Thurton Urban. We are one of the property owners here in Sandy Springs, the one that was subject to the tax amendment that was discussed earlier in regards to the flex space. So we submitted a comment card just because we were viewed The text amendment, I think, our comment is really just wanting to request some potential clarifications on some language in the text amendment, specifically around some definitions around like trucks, enclosed loading, just to provide some clarity on what exactly those mean. I think generally we are very supportive of the text amendment, really just seeking some like minor clarification language to avoid any ambiguity.

Can we pull that one back up again?

And I don't have the comment.

I do apologize. I have one for you there. Thank you.

I don't have it either.

Yeah, I've got it. All right. No, it was the flex space there.

Yeah, so I don't think the actual text amendment is up here. So I think we would need to look at the actual language. But I think if I'm going off of memory, it says all loading shall be like enclosed loading. And I think the intent there meant like enclosed in a court not visible from the street. So we just wanted to clarify what that meant. I think there was language around avoiding high truck traffic, and I think the intent was to avoid semi-trucks. So I think just clarifying trucks over 48 feet as an example, just so everyone's clear on the definition of that. And then the last one was on noxious substances, and I believe the intent was that to avoid noise, light, vibrations being detectable Reasonably like outside of the property boundaries, so I think again. These are just clarifications We were seeking to potentially potentially make or just to put out there for you all to consider Okay, thank you Ginger is that something that?

You have in there. I mean do you feel like what you're proposed or what's in there is addresses that or does it not?

I

Sorry, I didn't have it pulled up.

I would agree about the issue of not being visible from the street.

Jenny, can you talk into the mic? Sorry.

I would agree about the loading and unloading because most of them kind of are from like internal kind of courtyards. They kind of face each other. So I would have no problem agreeing. to revise some of that language and say again what the issue about noxious substances was?

I think the intent on the language was to essentially say not being able to like detect noise or vibrations or light from the property boundaries. So I think just like a minor text change to clarify that.

From the property boundary. So just adding that simple.

Yeah, I think the language as is was, again, I'm going off memory. It's right here.

Yeah, I can read it to you.

It says, noxious substance, no equipment or process may be used in connection with a flex space that creates noise, vibration, glare, fumes, odors, dust, hazardous materials, electrical interference, or other noxious substance detectable to the normal senses off the flex use site.

Yeah, that's correct. That's the section. So, again, this was just for clarification or consideration, something along the lines of, like, reasonably detectable off of the property boundaries instead of off the site.

Well, I think the word reasonably detectable is to whom, right? Right. So, I think generally we... that kind of language appears in other areas of our code. And it probably appears in our noise ordinance. So if you have sounds that project across your boundary and exceeds our noise ordinance, that would not supersede yours and yours would not supersede that section. To me, it's the same thing. So it's basically just reinforcing all the rules that are kind of found in other areas. I'm not sure I'm inclined to change it. You know, smells are, you know, like if there's fumes, noxious fumes, that sort of thing. and the police are called and code enforcement is called, they're going to go out and they're going to check and if they say, hey, it's a gas leak, it's a gas leak. But I guess they're concerned about if you're running a diesel engine all day long and the smoke is blowing next door, then that's probably going to be a problem. So those are the kinds of things that we're trying to hedge against with this language.

I think... I think if you would be open to just the off-site state and property boundaries, is that something that you may be open to?

John, what is your concern? I mean, is it because I guess noise vibration is somewhat vague. Are you worried that, I mean, by its nature, you've got loading, unloading happening where that's going to create some level of noise.

Yeah.

But you want to define where it wouldn't be noise that would be, you know, basically that a neighbor would.

No, I don't think we have any concern, really. I think it is more trying to remove some of the ambiguity so that it just feels a little bit more defined. So I think the kind of the end of the sentence, I think changing it to something like off the property boundaries, I think would help with that. But again, that's just for consideration.

Isn't that what it says, off the flex use site? So we're looking at the flex use site as the entire site, not just the part where the activity is happening. We're looking at the whole thing. So that would be the property boundaries. So we're really saying the same thing. All right. So I'm okay with changing it to property boundary. I'm If the commission is all right with that, I'm okay with it.

Thank you, John.

Thank you very much.

Was there anybody else, Sam?

No, Chair. That was it.

With that, we will close the public discussion. I ask if someone wants to make a motion on this either as a whole, which probably is the best way to do it, but with exceptions if that's what we want to do with itemized exceptions.

Chair?

Yes, Mr. Leeds.

I'd make a motion to approve TA 26002 with the exception of the change to section 11.6.2.B.4 which relates to the ability to file a variance with respect to fence material.

So your motion is to approve all with the exception of that one particular?

Yes.

Okay. We have a motion from Mr. Leeds. I think everybody understands the motion. We have a second. appears we do not have a second so that motion fails so we look for another motion or an abbreviation or a change of that motion. Mr. Porter, do you want to try?

Well, just give me a second to try to incorporate the changes that we went over with Ginger.

I got them summarized here. So eliminate RT from garage entry. Right. Separate building materials from that as a, make that a separate entity, if I'm correct. And then with regard to flex space, change the wording to property boundaries. I think those are the things we discussed.

I've lost a little bit in Robert's rules, but is the flex space thing going to be what we see in the report? Because it's awkward to me that in the last sentence it says dot dot. Does that mean there's more to it? It's not included in the report. And then it also says waste-related service includes the following, colon, and then it lists the basic use standards. So it doesn't read right to me.

Well, I think for nature of what we're doing here, the only changes that are being proposed are the ones that are identified on the slide there on your big screen. Okay? I understand there's changes that you're like questioning what's actually in the text amendment.

This isn't the time to talk about this, but I'm not going off that. I'm going off what the report is, the staff report. And it's very difficult to read.

Who just had the... Can we put the language back up there?

Yeah, was it just the blue font that was in 769 in our packet?

That one you popped up just a minute ago, Michelle.

Yeah, I think...

Are you saying you want the full text, which was in our other packet?

It's in the packet, yes.

Yeah, this.

Okay, so under Section A, look at the last two sentences.

So it's dot, dot. That's an error. That's a typo. It shouldn't have two periods there.

Okay.

I did notice that when I looked at it, and I thought it was going to be changed, but it wasn't.

Okay, so then waste-related service includes the following colon.

I guess it looks like an incomplete sentence. Is that what you're suggesting?

Well, I know it doesn't, but it looks like Section B relates to waste-related services.

Yeah, I think waste-related services. service includes and that should be eliminated as well. Yes.

And for example earlier in that paragraph it says the flex base is intended and it lists the enclosed loading and under section B2 those loading docks that are allowed in the interior to the side of the rear are enclosed.

So the way I understand it is the buildings kind of face each other, and they have the drives in between. So those, as far as I'm concerned, are enclosed. So a truck has to be able to pull up and unload. I think they just don't want you unloading on the ground. That's kind of the premise there. I think they're talking about if it's, there shouldn't be any loading facing the street. That shouldn't happen. So the main street, there shouldn't be any loading. So all of the loading spaces or areas should be protected from the street. That's what we're concerned about with that section of the code. When you say the street. So like the main street, so Dunwoody Club Road, I think, right?

So if a building's entry, so I think there's a brewery there. near other office or spaces that face that street so they can't unload on that side?

We're talking about like unloading a truck and all the big materials. If a UPS truck pulls up and delivers some packages, that's fine. That's not what we're talking about. We're talking about the heavy duty, the larger... that are going to unload pallets of materials or that sort of thing. But regular delivery of everyday stuff happens all the time in the front of buildings.

And you feel that the way it's currently written, that's clear to the tenants?

I'll try to tweak the language a little bit between today and going to mayor and council, and I'll share it with you. I'll tweak it and share it with you.

Just from a... It's a little troubling to write the rules according to one piece of real estate. It seems like we ought to, and I know we don't have many more, but somewhere there's eight or ten acres, or maybe the piece as you're going towards Northridge on the right, you have to go up the hill, that flex space in there, I don't even know, it's kind of a one-story office, maybe they convert that to flex. And I just I'd like the rules to apply to flex space and not to Dunwoody Club, if that's possible.

I agree. And I think that the general premise of the rules reflect the rules in other areas of our code, which, you know, anytime we have a new building built, you know, you're supposed to either have your unloading inside, nothing facing the main street, and if it's in, you know, in behind, then it really... doesn't have to be enclosed and if nobody can see it. So we're following those general rules and we recognize that this is already an existing facility and we're not going to make them change how their operation operates today. It's just in moving forward if let's say they added some buildings to it or they combined some buildings or did something a little different on the property, these are the rules they would have to follow. Does that make sense?

It takes to clarify because I was starting to get the impression this was very specific to that particular place, but if they were Kroger, or publics, they could not unload and load on the front. You generally see those go behind the building.

Sometimes the bread trucks, they'll park in the front and they'll run in with their packages. But so the smaller things sometimes go through the front with the larger items going through the back.

And again, these rules are only for anything defined as a flex space zoning.

Right. For this particular facility, it's already up and running. Like I said, we're not going to make them put an enclosed loading dock on the front. It's only if they change and upgrade or build a new building.

To prevent us stomping any further on Robert's rules, we need to stop the discussion. And we need to have a motion, and then we can discuss the motion if we want to discuss it further. So we need a motion to approve, not approve, amend to whatever here. So, Mr. Porter, you were going to try to verbalize one.

According to Robert Schultz, can you include in the motion that the development director has agreed to tweak the language?

You can do that for sure. And then she will have to follow that recommendation. We're giving you the tough job, Andy.

That's why I'm paying big money.

I believe you said you were nine-time Commissioner of the Year, so I think that... I'm happy to take this for you, Eddie.

You're welcome. But I don't want to take your status.

I make a motion that we approve TA-26-2 Development Code edits as presented with the exceptions that in the first edit, section 1.1, we separate buildings that have a separate category for building materials, and in the, what was the other one?

To eliminate RT from garage entry.

Eliminate RT from the garage entry edit, and in the flex space, we add language in Section B3 to talk about the property, that these noxious substances will not extend beyond the property lines, and that, in addition, other issues brought up that will be reflected in the minutes that the Community Development Director has agreed to attempt to clarify those languages.

Very well done. Is that any workbook? Almost right on so we have a motion for mr. Porter, which everybody fully and clearly understands Do we have a second is there any discussion about that motion? All in favor aye aye all opposed Passes three to one So there we go. All right. Thank you I Thank you for your patience, staff, and that. In terms of ongoing business, our next meeting is August. Are we going to have that meeting?

Likely, yes.

Likely, okay, good. If all goes well, yeah. Any new business we need to discuss? William, is there anything you want to bring up? You've been very quiet tonight.

Nope.

You guys are good. We got something here. Hold on.

Nothing, just next month on the schedule we have St. Jude's coming for their Mastery Development Plan, so they'll be applying, whether they are applying for a Conditional Use Permit. So you'll see them, if all goes well, next month.

Okay.

And welcome, Jay, to Planning Commission.

Oh, yeah, I meant to say that. I would have said that at the beginning, but unfortunately I was a little tardy. But welcome to Jay O'Meara, our new Planning Commission member. Thank you. Friend, neighbor. Great American. It's a lot to live up to, Reed. Andy, did you have something you wanted to ask?

One other thing. Whoever on the technological side fixed my iPad so it didn't time out today, thank you. It was a lot easier to work with.

I tried really hard, Andy. And I greatly appreciate it.

Would someone like to make a motion to adjourn?

I'll make a motion to adjourn.

Thank you, Ms. Clemons. Seconded? Seconded. All in favor? Aye. So moved. We are adjourned. Great.

Sherwin Clemons. Hey, how are you? Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you as well. Sherwin. Yes. Yes. Like the picture.