Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

We're all happy here. So we're good, Director Miller? Yes, we are. All right. Good morning, everyone. Today is Tuesday, November 18. Yes, Thanksgiving is on its way. This is a meeting of the canal neighborhood active transportation enhancement project there'll be no decisions made today so it's really a conversation and an opportunity to hear from staff and to ask any questions. I should have started my name is Colin of the honor of serving as your mayor, and I think you're going to have city staff introduce themselves, yes. Again, thank you all for being here and there'll be some slides and we have an hour to have a great conversation. All right.

Good morning. My name is Angela Robinson-Pignone, and I'm assistant city manager here with the city of San Rafael. And so I'll pass it over to Gray, who's also going to be presenting.

Hi, I'm Gray Milgaard. I'm a senior civil department public works here at the city of San Rafael.

Maybe you can't tell from my costume, but I'm the police chief. My name is Dave Spiller. Thank you all for being here.

I'm April Miller, public works director. Hi, everyone. I'm Priya Nixon. I'm a senior analyst in the city manager's office.

So welcome. We have a presentation prepared for you today, as Mayor Cade indicated. Again, there's not going to be any decisions made. Obviously, you know, we are recording this meeting and this meeting will be posted for residents and interested community members to watch at their pleasure. And so with that, I'll hand it over to Gray, who's going to walk us through the project.

Real fast. Should we promote Micah? She's online. I can't. I can't. Thank you. Sorry.

Great.

Excellent.

So the topic of today's discussion is the Canal Neighborhood Active Transportation Enhancement Project. Again, my name is Gray. I'm a senior civil at the Department of Public Works. I just have a QR code up here. This is a direct link to the project's website. It has a lot of good information about the project history if you're interested. We also have Worldly, which is a translation service that should be operating. If anyone in here or online needs it, should be able to attend and get that started.

I agree. I can give some quick instructions. Yes, please. También puede escanear este código QR que está acá y lo llevará directamente al sitio web externo. Si quiere escuchar la reunión en vez de leerla como chat, seleccione el ícono de audio en la página de Wordly y haga clic escuchar voz y así va a poder escuchar esta junta en español. Muchas gracias.

Thank you, Walter. So before we jump into the topic of discussion, I want to give a little bit of project history. So the Canal Active Transportation Enhancement Project, or the Canal ATE Project, which I will probably refer to it as, is kind of a conglomerate of a number of city planning documents. So the Canal Community-Based Transportation Plan identified the need for pedestrian, bicycle, and truck excuse me, transit upgrades. The citywide bicycle and pedestrian plan identified some needs. And then back in 2022, there were some lighting workshops that were done in conjunction with Dominican, Voices to Canal, Canal Alliance, and the city identified some of those key lighting routes. Over on the right, on Table 6, you'll see the prioritization of some of those needs and solutions that were identified in those groups. Priorities, so you'll see traffic calming, pedestrian, sidewalk lighting, and transit. So all that kind of came together and resulted in the Canal Active Transportation Enhancement Project.

Real fast, there's somebody with their hand raised online, and we're not... We're not able to click on people who have their hands raised just for the person who has theirs raised, just to acknowledge that. But you can type something in the Q&A section and I can read it and see what the issue is.

Thank you. A little bit of more background. So the project itself applied for the active transportation program grant cycle six in 2022. The project was awarded that. So the grant is partially, mostly grant funded. City awarded the professional services agreement to BKF engineers in March of this year. That was for the environmental design and construction support of the entire project. And then we really didn't start contracting with Caltrans. We started really looking at the lighting component that we're talking about here today back in kind of late August. So really kind of the first conversation we're having. Thank you, Mary Kate. Very excited to be here and have this. So overall project overview, I kind of break it down into three different components. So we have pedestrian, bicycle, and transit. Pedestrian, curb ramps, sidewalk gap closures, and then corridor lighting improvements is bolded. partially what we're talking about today. Bicycle, bicycle boulevard treatments, new secure bike parking at Pickleweed, and then transit. This includes five transit shelter enhancements and then one additional transit stop along a high use route. So here's just an overview of the project in general, the project boundaries, that big red line. This is also available on our project website. If you're curious, you can zoom in and kind of take a look around. So kind of the topic of today's discussion is those corridor lighting improvements and I've broken it out into street lighting improvements versus pathway lighting improvements. So I'm going to start with streets and have a conversation there. So street lights are proposed along nine different paths. streets in the neighborhood. You'll see them listed there. They're also shown on the right. It's the yellow and black kind of dashed line. So Harbor, Hogue, Larksburg. You'll see a nice asterisk next to Canal Street, and that's because a portion of Canal is also part of a PG&E Rule 20a undergrounding project that we're working with them on. So some of those existing utility poles have streetlights on them. Those will be undergrounded and then replaced with the project. So there'll be a coordination number with them on how that sequence works. The streetlights themselves will be similar to those previously installed as part of the canal community lighting project, also available on our website if you're curious. And they'll either be freestanding or on an existing utility pole. I have some images. So on the left, you'll see freestanding, the streetlight. And on the right, you'll see I circled. It's on an existing utility pole. The street light is among communication lines, electrical lines. So one of these two, depending on recommendations given to us by our consultant on where these locations would be. So pathway lighting improvements. So second category. So the corridor lighting improvements for pathways, pathway lights were proposed along Starkweather Path, Bahia, Vista Trail, and around Pickleweed Park. I wanted to make a note that the lights around Pickleweed Park, and I have a slide that kind of details this a little bit more, they may be removed, relocated in the project scope because of the proposed Tiscornia Marsh project. There might be some conflict with constructions not aligning. So conversation had to be had there. The two proposed lights that we're talking about today There's a 15-foot overhead light and then a 3.5-foot high bollard light. Again, those dashed yellow and black lines are the proposed pathway light locations. And I say images on the flying side. I actually mean the slide after that because environmental considerations, so a big component of this. So there are no definitive lighting levels that have been established that can, or in regards to impact aquatic life or birds, but we do have bird conscious lighting practices that we can use. So that includes using warmer tones. So like, warmer, redder, orange tones, dimming our lights, and then down shields. So that is limiting light bleeding. We're just focusing the light down towards the pathway where we're trying to illuminate. And then the use, potential use of automatic controls such as motion sensors to dim, undim. The image I'm showing just kind of shows the potential problematic lighting and some ways that we can kind of adjust and help with that.

Just to add, prior to the grant application being submitted, Marin County has a group that meets with all the different permitting agencies like BCDC, Fish and Wildlife, Water Board, Army Corps, there might be another one. And so I went there and I discussed with them the concept of lighting along this area, and none of them had any concerns with proposed lighting on this path. So I said, just submit your application, but We don't see, if you're just lighting the path, we don't see any issue with it.

All right, so for some images. So overhead, you'll see on the left, so that's a 15 foot tall. I'll make a note that this doesn't have the shield, the downcast shield. This is just a standard pole. So that's kind of what that one looks like. And then the bollards over on the right, so three and a half feet tall. And again, this one doesn't have a shield on either side in the image, so it's just kind of casting a 360. These are just examples, the actual model that might be proposed with the project may vary. So proposed locations. So the locations being shown here were provided by our police department as part of a crime prevention through environmental design SEPTED review. So I'm gonna start at the north and work my way southeast. So the green dash line that you're seeing, those are the proposed overheads that are potentially impacted by the Tiscornia Marsh Project. So just calling out that those are kind of a separate category. We have overhead proposed on either side of Pickleweed Park, starting from Pickleweed Park and heading southeast along shoreline near Spinnaker is all bollard style. And then once we kind of turn the corner and start heading south, we're back into overhead. You'll see that the project stops kind of on that southeast corner before you hit the dirt starting towards Target. That property is not owned by the city. So that's kind of where the project and the grant application paused. And then the Bahia Trail, Vista Trail also has Baller proposed in the city owned portion of the pathway. So I have some pathway lighting heat maps. These were produced by our consultant and our sub-consultant, PKF and Parametrix. Heat maps are a way that we can visualize lighting impacts on the ground without it being dark. So I have a couple of different versions to show. So this first one is bollard lighting. So this is a 20-foot staggered spacing. So just to kind of orient, the black dots that you're seeing are the bollards themselves. And then the color that you're seeing is the heat map and is seeing the light. And so what it is, is we typically measure lighting and foot candles, how bright something is. So you'll see right near the bollard, you're at a brighter. And then as you kind of come away from the bollard, that diminishes. The 20 foot staggered spacing is just saying every 20 feet we're going side to side. in that direction. So that's 20 foot. I also have a 25 foot similar layout heat map residual, just spaced a little farther apart.

And then you can tell because there's shields on them, so that's why the light isn't going outside of the path.

Yeah, so the intention here is very much just to focus that light down and in. So these examples have shields on the back of the bollards, so the light would only be visible standing inside the path looking towards the outside. So yeah, those heat maps just kind of show that range of lighting where it's being visible. And then the overhead lighting, so this is at 100 foot spacing and just orient the bay side is to the north, the 12 o'clock of the screen and then the lagoon side is to the south, the six o'clock. So approximately 100 feet depending on site locations. Same concept, you have the bollards, which are the blue squares, and then the heat map is what's being projected down onto the surface. Hours of operation. So again, this came from PD as part of that SEPTED review. So lights to be operational during the hours of low light and or darkness. So this would be a sensor system that would turn on dusk evening and then turn off dawn morning conditions. And that was all part of the review that we got there from Sam Raffel. That is the end of my presentation.

And so I also want to give Chief Spiller the opportunity. I know that Gray covered the CPTED analysis, but Chief, you can provide a little bit more detail about that and the considerations for safety along the path that the police department took into consideration.

If you define the acronym that you just used.

Oh, my apologies. My apologies. Crime prevention through environmental design. And so we abbreviate that CPTED. So thank you for asking that question.

Law enforcement loves acronyms, so we call it SEPTED. We engage in crime prevention through environmental design reviews on cases like this, new developments, significant building review. So we'll work with a community development department, public works department. as an effort to offer our crime prevention strategies in developing either upgrades to an existing location or a new building design. And some of this includes crime prevention through environmental design, probably the number one issue that we deal with and make recommendations on is lighting. But some of those other issues include things like landscaping and hardscaping, things like that, that can dissuade crimes of opportunity. So that's the theory behind crime prevention through environmental design. So the walkthrough on the lighting was perfect. There is kind of a mix in terms of recommendation. Philosophically, there's a little bit of a push-pull here. So my staff did a comprehensive crime prevention through environmental design review on the lighting of this project and made recommendations to the Department of Public Works. So, you know, there's nothing legally binding in our recommendation. It's really just a collaboration from departments. to department in terms of making a recommendation based on our experience. There's a little bit of an intersection here between crime prevention philosophy and then personal impact. So on the crime prevention philosophy side, You have fundamentally safety. I mean, that's what we're concerned about. The more light, the safer you are. The more light, the easier it is for a patrol officer or even a drone if responding to a crime in progress. The more light, the safer. we determine a scenario to be. The other half of that is the personal impact. And this is when the lighting design intrudes into your personal space, through your window, in your backyard, whatever that case may be. And there's a balance to everything. So our recommendation with the different types of lighting recommended is intended to mitigate closer to residences, but illuminate in those more high-risk areas. High risk being like totally dark and not a lot of activity going on. There's another... philosophy that i'll just offer and you know there's there's an invitation to opportunity by by lighting certain areas so my example is parks that are closed after dusk lighting them invites people in to loiter invites people in to use the facility even though by municode it's closed uh so that that's another part of that push-pull But our recommendation overall in terms of lighting design, as Gray has walked through, is this mixed-use design of overhead lighting as well as the lower 42-inch bollard-style lighting. So I'm happy to answer questions, but that's kind of a summary of the crime prevention analysis from a lighting perspective. Thank you, Chief.

Oh, yes. And then just as Mary indicated at the beginning of the meeting, so no decisions are being made today. We're here to provide information and collect feedback. There is going to be another meeting on December, December 9th, December 9th, where it will be another opportunity for staff to share information about the project. And in terms of decision making process, a proposed design will be brought to council. And I'm looking to Director Miller in terms of in terms of anticipated date, in terms of design specifications?

For a while. Yeah, so the lighting component is part of the larger project itself. So unless guidance otherwise given, I think the lighting component would be brought to council as part of the overall project.

But not for probably another year and a half, because we don't have construction funding until fiscal year.

Yeah, we still are in the preliminary engineering design phase.

So just want to clarify that nothing is happening immediately. And so there's still a lot of work to be done in terms of the overall project. But of course, today we're presenting or focusing our attention on the lighting enhancements. So with that. That concludes our staff presentation, and so I know that there are folks that have joined us online that perhaps have questions. And so we're going to have kind of a facilitated questions and answers session in as much as we can provide that information today. And then there'll be a follow-up FAQs on the website so that people, again, who weren't able to join today's meeting can access that information as well. I definitely want to press and encourage people to sign up for updates on the project website. And with that, I will hand it back over to director Miller, who is monitoring the online chat.

I just wanted to question. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. And I had a couple of key takeaways, which is I'm glad you're all here and hopefully you'll stick for the long haul because December, 2026, 2027 is when I hear decisions will be made as part of a comprehensive thing. So I want to be clear. So, um,

Go ahead, Dave.

So first of all, thank you for- And if you could just introduce yourself, I think that's just kind of a polite thing to say. You don't say where you live, but just say your name.

Dave Bonfilio, Bay Point Lagoons. So you listed out all the organizations that you reached out to before going on to this project. You did not reach out to the four HOAs at least they were listed, that are directly impacted by the path lighting, both on the Bahia Vista path and along the water. So I will tell you that most of the people that you're looking at here are concerned about those two paths and the lighting. So there was no input from those neighborhoods. The second thing is, Chief, I understand what you're saying about lighting, but Starkweather Path is a park which is supposed to be closed dust to dawn. We already have enough people on that path during the dark hours. I mean, 2, 3 o'clock in the morning, they're on the path with their boom boxes and loud voices and stuff like that. We're very afraid that this is going to attract more people to that path rather than increasing the safety of the path.

And I just want to have another point of clarification that wasn't touched on. I do encourage people to sign up for updates because I often hear, oh, we didn't know. The canal transportation plan, which Greg has very much talked about, part of an overall thing, first was brought to the council and approved in 2006. So this has been a conversation, and I'm glad that you're here now because you have a year and a half to have it, but it is part of a larger policy decision. So I just want to be clear that this has been ongoing.

Yes, sir. I'm George Scott. I'm a Bay Point Ligonier's resident, long-time Centerfell guy, Centerfell High School, et cetera. So I have a little bit of perspective, not expecting any special privileges. But I know that this area, in my mind, and I walk it every day, twice a day with my dog, who's always on leash, by the way. We walk the path every day. And it's a wildlife reserve. It should be dark at night for the animals, not just the birds either. They're nesting birds, granted, but they're ground animals as well. So having these lights, whether they're shielded or motion activated, which really sounds like a bad idea to me, it's going to impact the wildlife. And maybe I was spacing out when we were talking about the organizations who had input on this idea. I didn't really hear from, I don't believe the Audubon Society was part of it. or any other groups who are, you know, granted more nature-focused, but this is and has been a natural animal sanctuary for a very long time, ever since it was created in what, the 80s or something. And to change this and to expect people who bought here years ago expecting a quiet evening, suddenly all that's gone as if it had no legal basis at all. So that's kind of my two bits about it. So my question is, will you reach out to some more environmental organizations to get some feedback from them. And then one last item is on the canal, the lighting design, where it just suddenly ends at what the public works people call the shark cage beach, which is the junction of the, what is it, the target field. that junction there. So people are going to walk around, it's going to be all lit up, and then where are they going to go, right? They're going to keep going down the trail by the people who live along Bay Point Lagoon. So it's like a dead end. And I agree with Dave, it's going to be a party zone. It's already a party zone, but people aren't supposed to be out there after sunset. And I never am, Chief. So anyway, thank you. I guess my main question is about environmental organization feedback. It's being considered.

And that's a good point. And I would actually add on maybe the Humane Society, because I think some folks in this room have emailed me about the coyote situation when it happened. And I just don't even know the intersection of how that, I don't know if that's a matter to coyotes or not, but I know that that's been an issue.

They're part of the wildlife. They're kind of a brand. But animals at night, like raccoons and so on, they're relying on darkness. Yeah. Not whites and not people, certainly. We need a break. Thank you.

I'm Judy Frumkin. I'm in Spinnaker. I did email a bunch of questions, a couple of them you've answered, but one, and I'll direct this to the police chief, do you have documentation about the level of crime that has occurred within this area that would sort of make it more You know, that would sort of make it so that you want, you know, that this is a necessary project, particularly when it just ends anyway and is not going anywhere. And my second thing is, for those of you who haven't walked the trail, many, many people are on this trail. So here am I thinking I'm a runner and a walker on this trail almost every day. And we are confronting dog walkers and people walking in strollers and bicycles. And so most of the time it is fine. And if I have to get off the trail, you know, because there's a group of little kids or whatever, I'm on the gravel part. First of all, that trail is not well maintained. It is a difficult, you have to watch your footing. The asphalt is falling apart. And now I will go, have to go on the gravel part, you know, closest to the water or the either side. And there's going to be bollards or these poles all along And so I see people tripping into it people banging into them. So you have a question of maintenance, I think you have a question of public safety for people walking and I don't know whether any of that has been considered in the environmental impact as far as people walking on that part of the trail. Let alone the lighting issues that, you know, as far as light and stuff. So two questions, whether there's evidence that this is necessary, given the scope of it, which is not particularly big. I understand at down at Pickleweed Park. That's a whole different place. But really, for the safety of me and everybody else who walks on that, people walking their dog and the dogs having to maneuver around the bollards, it just doesn't make any sense from a safety standpoint.

Well, the first element of your question was crime activity. I don't have it with me, but we have stats for reported incidents or officer-initiated contacts. It is a great amenity in our community. use of that path so there's inherent conflict with mixed use but you know I think of my personal frustration when I'm riding my bike on a mixed use path and I have to slow move stop or get off when I confront a family who's Toddling in my path. But that's very normal, right? As it relates to the activity, we're very well aware that there is activity after hours. We patrol it to the best of our ability. There are some disadvantages to You know, in terms of a patrol philosophy, you know, signage, directed enforcement, you know, walking and biking after dark versus, you know, taking a car out on the path and trying to deal with people who are out there that shouldn't be. And then legitimate walking home from Target after work to where they live in the canal. There's almost, I won't say forgiven uses after hours, but there's legitimate uses or reasons people might be out. It's like the boom boxes and the loitering or the beer drinking. That we know is happening, that we respond to and we patrol for. The crime activity, I'd have to search it. I don't have the numbers with me, but we're very well aware of the activity. In fact, non-PD staff were surprised at how much activity goes on out there after dark. So, yeah, we're aware and we continue to monitor it and we continue to enforce it.

So just to clarify, so one of the reasons that you have the statement that you brought to TPW is to have another tool in the toolbox for what was just described. In your professional opinion, this is a tool. And I really appreciated the kind of philosophy, personal impact approach. So that's what we're trying to navigate.

Yeah, and I want to respond to a second part. So the lights have location has not been designed. We literally got these like last week from our designer and We knew we wanted to schedule a meeting and talk to you first. So we haven't talked about the exact light placement, but the idea is to be outside of that dirt path. We know how much people like to walk. I mean, I walk our offices on that path. So I walk that path all the time. I love walking in the dirt area. The idea would be outside of that dirt area because we know that's part of the recreation use of it. As far as like maintenance of the path, fence, I mean, I know Dave loves C-Click Fix, but C-Click Fix is the place to report all of these issues. And that's how we track our issues. So I know we get requests with weeds. We get requests with all sorts of things. But if you see something, tell us. We're not out there every day. So it's helpful if residents let us know where you see problems and where you would like improvements to happen.

If you can introduce yourself, I think it's always nice. Go ahead.

Hi, I'm Claire Taylor.

I'm from Spinnaker Point also. And I have two questions, one bearing on what we were just talking about, the state of the path itself. It is completely unmaintained. So it's dangerous just walking on it in the daylight. Also, the fences, there's a tremendous amount of... disregard. The fences are not down, they're not repaired, they could be down for months at a time or years at a time. The whole pathway, as wonderful as it is, is not maintained at all. The other question that I have regarding some feedback is, What thought have you given to sea level rise? Which is, having just come from a major meeting last night on sea level rise, it is an imminent threat. So if you're thinking of putting lighting, I assume you're thinking of putting it not on the residential side, but on the water side of the pathway outside the dirt. Is that what you're talking about? For the...

I think just the map that shows where the lights are. Sorry. Yeah, it's in both areas. So the blue is where the bollards and then the red is where the... Sorry. It's also... It's on the little... That's okay.

We got a handout here. Yeah. Okay. Okay. So basically my question remains the same regardless. And last night I heard that it is possible that this year that forum could be talked. So, I mean, it would be a big, I know, it would be terrible, but it could happen. There is enough that sea level rise is serious enough an issue in our community that it could happen. And I don't know what thought you have given to, is it electric? Well, are they electric? Are they battery? What's going to happen? You know, when that whole area is wet. And I think it's I think the whole the whole project, as Judy was saying, is inappropriately thought out in terms of the impact. So but the other issue is, you know, is it dangerous? Because when water comes in contact with those lights, what's going to happen?

Hi, I'm Kate VonVig. I live at Spinnaker Point. And I have a question. It's my understanding that an environmental impact report has not been completed for this project. Is that accurate? Why not? And can one be done so we can understand more fully some of the impacts on humans? Nighttime lighting is known to interrupt circadian rhythms. Some of us have views, which would be obstructed by tall light poles. And just, it seems to me that more information could be, excuse me, learned from it. Actually, you can respond to just kind of that.

Yeah, like I said, we just started.

Yeah. We haven't done anything. We are working with an environmental consultant. I don't know if you want to.

Yeah, so the project has LSA as our environmental consultant. So they're working on technical studies, biological research, kind of the scope that is needed then to start looking at CEQA compliance and what that determination would be. So this is very still... I would say in the environmental process alone, the lighting is part of that. The whole project itself gets wrapped up into that CEQA analysis. In terms of an ER, I don't know if that is the specific document that would be produced as part of this. I think there are different levels of, like there's the national environmental... And then there's CEQA, which is just state California environmental... So there might be different documents and what they're called in those two categories, the project itself is state only funding so we're just looking at secret, but that is the project itself all kind of gets wrapped up into that analysis, which is currently being worked on.

So is an environmental impact report going to be done or not, I don't understand. from what you just said, if it's happening or not.

I can jump in. So as Gray mentioned, we have an environmental consultant. And so depending on, so in CEQA, in the California Environmental Quality Act, there are different documents. So you can have an environmental impact report that looks at many different potential environmental impacts. You can have a mitigated negative declaration where you look at a very focused, based off of the scope of the project, And so we can't say it's an EIR necessarily, but there's going to be an environmental assessment that's done. What's required under CEQA, depending on where we land in that analysis, it will determine whether or not it's an EIR, it's a mitigated negative declaration. It could be a negative declaration. We don't know until one, the project scope is confirmed. And right now we're still doing information gathering. So you can't do an environmental impact analysis of any kind until you confirm what it is you're trying to do. But depending on what the recommendation of our consultants and in consultation with the city attorney's office will know whether or not it's an EIR, it's a mitigated negative declaration, or it's a negative declaration or some sort of other environmental assessment that needs to occur. So because we're so early in the project, we can't tell you what that will be, but we can commit to an environmental assessment. We just don't know what the document type will be.

Thank you. Assistant City Manager, also, I was just curious, for the permitting agencies, is that also something that weighs in? So the Army or BCDC, like the whole litany of acronyms of those. So is that a part of that conversation as to what level of environmental review? So it's not just us. I'm trying to understand if there's also outside agencies.

Yeah, they have other permits. Not all of them are requiring permits, but some of them just said they would like to look at what we're doing. But yeah, we will be applying for those permits.

I'm saying in the permits in terms of the environmental, what Angela just described, is that also a part of their permitting? I'm just curious. I just don't know.

It's separate, the permit issuance piece, but often they weigh in on the environmental analysis. So they comment, right? But the permits are separate.

No, I appreciate that because it could have been conceived that it was separately siloed actions when I hear that there is an integration. Correct. They do comment. Certainly.

Don Fordham from Spinnaker Point. I don't know if you're aware of the dark sky movement where cities all over the world are trying to reduce lighting that's unnecessary. This seems like the perfect example of where you're putting in lighting that's going to be reflecting off the bay. It's going to be visible from across the bay. It's just according to your grant application so people can go out there and walk to Target, which doesn't seem like a very important reason. And this seems like a perfect case where, like the people in West Marin, let's cut down on unnecessary lighting at night.

We're going to wait until everyone's had an opportunity before we go to round two. No, no, no, no. I want to get everyone, but yeah, go ahead.

Yeah. Bonnie Smolin, and I live at Bay Point Lagoons. And I agree with what everybody has said. And honestly, I haven't talked to anybody in our neighborhood who is in favor of this lighting project. Number one, I don't want to repeat back to what I've heard this morning, except one issue that hasn't come up is graffiti. And I've lived Bay Point for almost 30 years. And trust me, over the years, there has been a lot of graffiti on that path, on the benches, on the ground, anywhere they can do it. So it seems to me... you put more light in there you're really asking for an increase in that activity which to me is also an increase in potential gang activity um you know i don't live on the path i live directly on the lagoon and i can't imagine opening my windows or my shutters and what i'll be looking at is you know, bright lights all around the pathway. So I'm just not really sure what, you know, it just doesn't make sense to me that this project is moving forward. And you're hearing from both Spinnaker and Bay Point residents, there's 400 plus houses. So do we not count at all in this decision-making? It's a question. You do count, that's why you're here.

A year and a half in advance. And I will say, and I appreciate you being here. It's a Tuesday morning early in the middle of the day. So thank you for coming down and as well as signing up for updates and providing emails. And I do want to recognize who's not in the room. So yes, Bay Point Spinnaker is here and the canal neighborhood is the most dense population in all the city. So again, I'm not saying that's a reason to do it or to not do it, but I just want us to be cognizant of the voices that aren't here. So that's why this is a really long process, an important process. And what I appreciate about this is Gray's kind of holistic, not kind of, but the holistic approach. So what are the programs for this kind of bigger project approach? whether this one gets modified or goes forward or not is a discussion that we're having. This is not, and for us to singularly say, it's only about this, I invite you to kind of step back and think about the bigger picture of what we're trying to do. And if this doesn't fit in, well, then that will come clear as we have those conversations. So yes, go ahead.

Aaron Burnett with Canal Alliance.

And I am here.

I do work in support of a lot of the lower income Latino community in the Canal District. And I'm as a representative and we'll be redisseminating some of this information to like leaders in the community so i i appreciate a lot of the comments here and i will also be incorporating those so that i can better support that that voice but uh i i do the one question as a follow-up to to your your point about you know graffiti and crime i i would definitely like to ask Chief Spiller the same questions. In your experience, it sounds like more lighting actually would decrease potentially those types of criminal activities.

How do you see that?

Let's take the experts as opposed to...

It's actually... There's exceptions to everything, but increased illumination, brighter light, decreases that criminal activity. It decreases the likelihood of loitering and or uh graffiti or even gang violence people aren't going to hang out underneath a bright light or on a well-lit pad yeah so i mean the crime prevention experts will tell you the more light the safer it is the less crime you'll have So Aaron's question's right on the money.

Thank you. Is there anyone else in the room that hasn't had a chance to say anything? I don't. Sorry.

I just want to make sure that everyone else. I have one question. Who's in charge of maintaining this after it's done?

Yeah. Great question. Do you hear that maintenance?

Yeah. Public works. We have a lighting contractor. So people report, somebody actually asked that question online and I responded. So if someone sees it, sees a light that's out, they can report on C click fix. If they see graffiti, they can report it on C click fix. So that's who will be maintaining, who would maintain the lights if they go in and same with the path, which I know, you know, I was out there even at night, I didn't trip or fall on the path. I can, there is some asphalt that I can see does need some repairs, but You know, this is something we will be looking at and looking the fence.

Do you have other questions online? And then we'll go to I can. Oh, I just want I responded to all of them. Can you just maybe encapsulate for the room? Yeah.

So somebody. Yeah. Somebody was asking about the park technically being closed, which is a comment here. Will there be signage indicating that? If it's closed, will the lights be placed at the existing gravel path? And my comments were it just hasn't been designed yet on signage and the idea is for the lights to be outside the gravel path, but there'll be more information as the project continues because it hasn't been designed there. Somebody else was asked about maintenance, and so I put a link to see ClickFix. And they said they were concerned both with lights out and if there was like landscaping obstructing the lights, both of which should be on C-Click Fix so that we can go out there. And someone asked if there's a transcript of this afterwards. I said the meeting's being recorded and it's going to be on the website. And then somebody from the canal community said that they wanted more outreach regarding C-Click Fix app and if we could help them with that. And I said, please reach out to us. I gave them our email address and said, We can either do that through Canal Alliance and volunteering Aaron, or we can do it separately and do some sort of outreach campaign to make sure that they know more about that. And then somebody said they agreed with taking care of wildlife and finding a balance, but they really want to hear from people from the canal, which doesn't appear that there is anybody in the room. And then somebody appreciated that. the answer about maintenance. And then there's a couple more that I haven't read, or one more that I haven't read yet.

Okay, while you're reading that, thank you. I think, Council Member Micah, you have a very tiny hand from sitting back here, so...

Yes. Hi, everybody. I apologize that I cannot be there in person. I have a deadline for my work. But I have a couple of questions and I guess clarification from my end. The first one, I think, is about the process, because I think that I hear a lot of people telling me that we are just like we didn't come with the community and suddenly we're doing all this. So I just wanted to mention that this is the first time. that we are actually seeing the concept. And we are definitely including everybody in the community. That's why we are doing the meeting with you. But this is not the only time that we are going to have input from the community. We definitely want to hear from, you know, neighbors in the canal as well. When the lighting project was happening in 2022, there was desire of having families walking the path like in the winter um with the daylight savings because it gets dark like a five so um i feel that this project is is a little bit like the parking permit and i know that some people don't like the parking permit and the results but i think the process is very similar to where we really included everybody and we did the analysis and then at the end we realized that the parking permit was not usable the way it was designed. So we didn't do it. So I just wanted to clarify the process where we haven't approved anything yet. This is like the first concept, then it will come the community output, the design, and then there will be decisions made based on all that. So I just wanted to clarify that. A question that I have is, as I'm listening to the proposal or the concept, I wonder if there are like some samples of the lighting in Marin County that maybe we can go and see, just to see the impact of the lighting, especially I think the ballers. um and then i just wanted to also uh with the cyclic fix i uh i had several meetings with both as a canal and we've been talking about cyclic fix so um there's definitely conversations about going door to door or you know having some workshops so everybody knows how to use it because it's definitely a great tool to have so um So yeah, I think that's on the families that they want to use the path at night, like in the winter, daylight savings. Could it be like one option to turn them off at a certain time? So these are just speculations that I am personally thinking. And I really appreciate also Chief Spiller. I know he works really closely with the community. Our goal is to keep our community safe and being able to enjoy all the outdoor spaces and everything we have. So thank you.

Thank you, Councilmember. So maybe, I think we're probably ahead of the actual physical examples, but Gray, do you want to speak to that? Because I think if this continues to progress, I think that would be a natural.

Yeah, Director Miller and I were trying to find, we found some examples just in the greater Bay Area of bollards or overhead lighting. Maybe we can find a way to locate those. I'm not specific on any examples in Marin County, like that fit This specific instance, we do have bollards at Pickledy, but those are in kind of a different environment.

And the lights were recommended by the Bay Trail people, correct?

Yes. So the bollards that were the examples presented here today, these are actually examples that were given to us by the Bay Trail Association, the group that manages the, you know, if you want to do the whole 300 mile loop or whatever it is. These were examples that they gave that they've seen on other proposals for design for lighting near and on the Bay Trail. So that's kind of what our starting point was, was their recommendation.

But we'll keep looking. I mean, we were out at night and observed and there's definitely floodlights on people's homes that are going to be significantly brighter than would be on the path that we could see while we were out there. And so we'll continue to look at night and see if we can find some examples of something similar.

And that's an interesting point because I do think that bounds with the dark skies and if houses are spilling over light, so there actually might be other homeowner changes that will be necessitated. It's not just one or the other. Okay, so I'm just like, we have nine more minutes and now we can go round two. So we'll get Dave and then you and then you.

Thank you, Mayor. So I've had conversations with you, Mayor, and then Dave, you brought up something that I've heard before from the Mayor, people wanting to walk to and from Target. Well, there's a whole stretch along canal ways, which is not in this project, which I know is privately owned. And that is absolutely the most dangerous part of the path, day or night. I mean, walking that is, it's like zigzag and you're, you know, and there's lots of shrubbery on the canal side that people can hide in. So I don't know how many people actually walk to and from canal after dark. But I'd be surprised that they're, you know, during the day, yes, but at night, I don't think so.

That's a great comment. And again, as we're looking at holistically, if it goes this way, once we continue to hear from the public, maybe it is seeking out and working with that private developer. So it does feel safe the whole way. I mean, I understand that kind of disconnect of one part feeling one way and the other one not. So as opposed to everything, again, that's just, these are all things that we'll be thinking about over the next 18 months. I think that's a really, really insightful comment. Yes, go ahead, Judy. I thought it was Judy. Yeah, Judy.

I was like... A couple of weeks ago, we were... our two HOAs were presented with a project, I just thought about it, of putting up signs about the Miwok history along this canal. So we had a big conversation about whether or not we want to see signs every, I don't know how many feet apart, telling the story of the origin story, which and I will absolutely qualify this, we have no problem with telling the story, the indigenous story about our area and all of that. so if you're we're going to do this and and that is actually going to happen so you will now have big sun you know signage with all this language on it all along from the very south end of the trail all the way through to pickleweed which is two miles and then you're going to have some bollards in the middle of this and then i go back to i'm talking about daytime safety for people who are walking the path. And that path is not a big, it's not very big as far, if you've been on it, it's not that wide. So I'm just thinking of the daytime issues as well and my safety. I'm an old woman and I don't feel like tripping over or going over. And anyway, so I don't know if you know what that project is. But it was presented to us and it's been like a done deal. And we are concerned about the visuals as well as the safety. And now we're putting in lighting in this very small, you know, that is maybe a half a mile from the blue all the way around. And like you said, Mayor, it's kind of a, it sort of stops. And it makes me wonder why, you know, if we really want to make it happen, we've got to do a much better job. And there are other ways, by the way, of getting to Target on sidewalks where there is lighting. all the way, might take a little bit longer, but nonetheless, there are sidewalks and lights all along Francisco Boulevard and all the way from Target if you have to do that at night. Anyway. Thank you, Jenny.

Claire, that is exactly what I was thinking.

Has there been any thought to identifying a safe path using public lighting and encouraging people to use that path, which maybe there would be some additional lighting in some areas required, but it's already a safe public path. It certainly wouldn't be that hard because just where Bellum starts, that's coming down that street. It's much safer than walking through a dark path. And it would make more sense. So I'm just wondering if there's an alternative way

know that's a good point and i think that's what aaron was talking about because we want to talk to to the users so we're talking to the homeowners that are adjacent the neighborhood and i think that's a really important question to ask folks but i don't think any of us can answer here i'm not walking that path at night to go to target and i don't know if any of us in the room are so let's find out from the folks that are going back and forth um we have we have any other questions that came in director miller that you want to share with the group um

Yeah, somebody was asking about our annual maintenance budget for Starkweather Path and what has been spent annually. That's not a question I have off the top of my head. Our staff does the maintenance in-house, so we don't really separate out per location to figure that out, but I can look at it. But I think it just is a depends question. And then somebody was asking, what is the reason for the change of longstanding dawn to dusk regulation?

SO AGAIN THANK YOU ALL FOR COMING DOWN AND I WANTED TO JUST REFERENCE WHAT ASSISTANT CITY MANAGER ROBINSON PINON TALKED ABOUT THE UPDATES BECAUSE THAT IS ONE WAY IF THE GROUP IS CONVENING AGAIN THERE WAS TALK OF A DECEMBER MEETING OR THERE WERE SOME OTHER MEETINGS THAT WERE MENTIONED AND I DON'T KNOW ABOUT YOUR SCHEDULE BUT IT'S NICE TO GET THOSE UPDATES AS TO WHEN THEY'RE GOING TO BE COMING IN. WE HAVE THESE REALLY COOL CARDS AND I'M HAPPY TO PASS THIS ONE AROUND. I don't know. So QR codes, this is the C click fixing to your phone, to your point about the maintenance. This is the same thing that I use. I've actually given this to my husband more than once when he wants me to report a pothole. And I am not kidding. So you take your phone and you're just use your camera. And then it actually takes you to the website as a way that those QR codes work. So this is for the graffiti. This is for all the stuff. Cause we can't be the eyes everywhere. You, you all are the eyes. And again, There's many awesome things about this, and this has really changed in the last five years. For those of us that have lived here for decades and decades before, it was like, oh, I'm going to email the mayor. Don't do that anymore because I'm actually going to just put you to this. And what's happened, though, has been really amazing is that DVW now can triage all this, number one, so it gets to the right person. And two, because of the data collected, we know where the hot spots are. Like, if we're getting the same thing over and over for the graffiti, like we're getting – 20 of these in two months. We know that there's an issue there. Maybe there needs to be environmental design that goes on. So this is really, really important. If for whatever reason your thing can't happen, let's say you want some ginormous project, which I also always like to put through these, you will have a response back from staff that talks about the why it may be going forward and why it wouldn't go forward. So I have extra ones of these. They're also downstairs in the city manager's office. but um you don't need our business cards anymore you need this this is where it is so thank you all for being here we really appreciate it thank you to the city staff and we look forward to the further engagement thank you so much do you want one of those i know it's so funny because i put them in my business card and now i'm like this let me just let me just and then you can put it in here earlier so you're scott But it's just nice to know. Okay. Yeah, let's do that. Yeah. I know I got to go. Yeah.