City Council Meetings– San Gabriel City Council - Regular Meeting

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Don't you do this with other students?

Yeah, yeah. They'll have the same thing, but it'll be better. 6.31.

What's our choice? What's the presentation?

Yeah, 631.

Yes.

You're the mayor. I gotta do my pledge then.

Presiding officer, let me get to his head.

Welcome to the City Council regular meeting. Today it's Tuesday, May 19, 2026. The meeting is called to order at 6.32 p.m. Pleasure meeting lead by Council Member Machanga.

Please stand. Put your hand across your heart. Ready, begin.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Clerk, lower call, please. Mayor Chen is at ISC conference. Vice Mayor Ding? Here. Council Member Hora-Avila. Present. Council Member Menchaca.

Here.

Council Member Wu.

Here. We will now have the same announcement from our city clerk.

Tonight's meeting is livestreamed on the city's online platforms. If you wish to address the city council during tonight's meeting, request that you please complete a speaker's card and hand it to the clerk at this time. When speaking, please state your name for the record. Please note that interactions between the city council, city staff, and the public during meetings are subject to the city's rules of decorum.

Approve the agenda order. Are there any objection to the agenda order? I hear one, no, none. The agenda order is approved. Next item please.

Presentations. Introduction of new Police Department employees. Police Chief Elzade will make the presentation.

Good evening, Vice Mayor, Council people, Mark. Invited guests, thank you for coming tonight. It's a packed house and we're going to be recognizing a lot of people tonight. I appreciate you being here and I'm sure the people that are going to be recognized both on the police side and the fire side truly appreciate you being here to support them. So we'll start. I have the pleasure tonight of being able to introduce 10 new employees from the San Gabriel Police Department, eight officers and two professional staff members. So we'll go ahead and get started. Our first officer that we're going to be recognizing tonight is Ryan Aguilar. Ryan was hired. Ryan was hired in April of 2025. He was born and raised in Alhambra, California. He has completed his bachelor's degree in business administration with an emphasis in accounting. He graduated from Cal Poly Pomona in 2013. He attended the Rio Hondo Police Academy and graduated in October of 2025, Class 218. He is an avid sports card collector, and tonight pinning his badge is his close family friend, James Mortiaga.

Thank you.

The next officer will be recognizing as Sergio Angel. Sergio was hired in July of 2025. He was born and raised in Alhambra, California. He's completed his AS in Social and Science Behavior. He is a graduate of Mark Keppel High School and East LA College. He attended the Los Angeles Police Academy Class 725. And fun fact, he went on vacation to visit all the missions in California. Badging him tonight is his mother, Gabriela Angel. Next up is Officer Elijah Batulan. Elijah was hired in March of 2026. He was born and raised in Manila. He completed his bachelor's degree in theology and graduated from Foursquare Bible College in the Philippines. He attended the LAPD Police Academy. Fun fact, he has a black belt in Brazilian jiu-jitsu and a Bible teacher for the World Church of Los Angeles in Montebello. Pinning him and badging him tonight is his spouse, Sheila Penn. Next up is Officer Anthony Castellano. Anthony was hired in April of 2025. He was born and raised in East Los Angeles in Pico Rivera. He completed his AS degree in administration of justice from East LA College. He's a graduate of Cantwell Sacred Heart and attended the police academy and graduated in October of 2025. Fun fact, he's a horror fan who loves Halloween season. and used to play in an eight-ball and nine-ball pool league. Badging Anthony tonight is his grandmother, Artemia Martinez. Next up is Officer Jacob Chavez. Jacob was born and raised in Lakewood, California, also raised in Wichita Falls, Texas. Completed his AA in criminal justice and a BA in criminal justice, graduating from Cerritos College in California State University, Dominguez Hills. He attended the Los Angeles Police Department Academy and graduated in February of 2025. He is working towards achieving his airplane pilot's license. Badging Jacob tonight is his sister, Lauren Chavez. Next, we have Officer Gabriel Larios. Gabriel was hired in September of 2025, born in Los Angeles and raised in Alhambra. He graduated from San Gabriel High School, East LA College, and Waldorf University in Iowa. Gabriel attended the LAPD Academy and first started his career with the LAPD and stationed at the Newton Division. Fun fact about Gabriel, he played college football and was a barber for 12 years before becoming a police officer. Badging him tonight is his girlfriend, Alexandria Mora. And if anyone needs a quick fade, see Gabriel out in the hallways. Next up, Officer Frank Lee. Frank was hired in November of 2026, born and raised in Monterey Park in South El Monte. He has completed his associate's degree in criminal justice and graduating from Pasadena City College. He attended the Golden West Police Academy in December of 2024. Frank was a magician for eight years. Wanted to be a magician when he was younger, but then realized he could not make money up here. So he did the honorable thing and became a police officer. Badging him tonight is his father, Sam Lee, and mother, Vandy Howe. Next up we have Officer Pedro Nunez. Pedro was hired in October of 2026, born and raised in East LA and raised in Duarte, California. He graduated from Duarte High School. He also attended the Rio Hondo Police Academy in 2024, graduating in July of that year. Fun fact about Pedro, he participated in soccer, boxing, jujitsu, and Muay Thai. Badging and pinning Pedro tonight is his wife, Erica Nunez.

One, two, and three.

The next employee that we're gonna be recognizing tonight is one of our newest dispatchers. The officers have a very difficult training season before them once they get out of the academy. It's probably equally if not more hard or more difficult for a dispatcher to stay on with our program, complete the program, and then stay on to become one of our great dispatchers. So I'd like to introduce Leslie Torres. Leslie was born and raised in Covina, California. She has completed her AA in Communication Studies. She's a graduate from Citrus Community College and also graduated from Northview High School. Fun fact, she enjoys playing soccer and favorite sport. Tonight pinning her is going to be her father, Romerio Torres. And finally, Miss Fiona Yan. Fiona was hired in January of 2026, born and raised in Southern California. Fiona is filling a new spot that we brought to the police department this year and that's working in our human resources department where she is pretty much tasked with working with our HR department and hiring, training our officers and making sure everybody is up to speed on their certifications. She completed her bachelor's of science degree in human resources and management, and she's a graduate of Cal Poly Pomona where she graduated in May of 2021. Fun fact about Fiona, she does floral arranging on the side as a hobby and loves warm sunny days out at the beach. Pinning her tonight are her aunt and uncle, Francis and Bruce.

One, two, three. One, two, three.

That concludes presenting all of our new employees for tonight, but I'd just like to take a minute to thank Council, Mr. Lazzaretto, Mr. Macias and his HR staff for making it possible to bring on good quality and talented officers and professional staff. We appreciate everything that you have done for us and the police department and to the community. Please, when you see these officers and our professional staff, say hello. They are now part of the San Gabriel family. So thank you very much.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you Thank you.

Thank you.

Okay, it's glad to see our police department have the regular, the good officer we hire. And next item, please.

Next item is community emergency response team CERT program completion recognition. Fire Captain Takahiro Suzuki will make the presentation.

Hello.

Perfect. Good evening. Thank you for having us here today. My name is Taka Suzuki. I also have come on up here. Don't be shy. Firefighter Daniel Carell, who is actually assisting me in the CERT program. I'd like to say thank you. I know city mayor is not here today, but vice mayor, city council members, city manager, and then also Chief Wallace for allowing us to have this program. I also want to give a couple more thank yous and kudos out there to Liz Mendoza and Sam Petsch, and also Adam Yang. He's helped me a lot in the past with the certificates. Also, I couldn't do this without my crew that helps out every time we do these classes. I can't oversee 20 people in a class, and I rely heavily on my crew to help teach the hands-on skills to these community members, so I'd like to thank them as well. I'd like to briefly talk about the CERT program. The CERT program is 20 hours of classroom as well as hands-on training. The topics that we cover are disaster preparedness, fire safety, first aid, disaster medical, search and rescue, the incident command system, disaster psychology, terrorism, and as well as, unfortunately, active shooter. At the end of our class, we have a final scenario. They show what they have learned in this final scenario where we have simulated live wires. We actually have smoke and fog machines going. We have fire. We also have live victims who make a lot of noise and cause a lot of chaos. And you can actually ask them about that. But this is really to test what they will be experiencing in an actual disaster. This program is very important because it will alleviate fire department as well as police department's call volume in a major disaster because we will be going to major target hazards. These community members behind me that have completed this training are gonna be self-sufficient for 72 hours and also will be able to help out our community and alleviate those calls of service from the fire department and police department until we can really calm down that chaos. There's two groups today that I'd like to recognize. The first group that I'm gonna call up and then city council, if you wouldn't mind, we'd love to have you in a picture with them. The first group is the community CERT class 326. That's not 326, that's just March 26 of 2026. As well as the San Gabriel High School Medical Careers Academy. These community members have showed us that they're ready for a disaster. So I'd like to recognize them and thank you for having us. My fellow teacher here, firefighter Daniel Carell is gonna be calling the names and I'll be handling

handling out the certificates.

Thank you.

First, I'm going to go with the CERT March class of 2026. Aaron Key. Christina Carter. George Park. Hazel Rose Quah. Geronimo Contreras Jr. John Cepino. Carolyn Park, Larry Natsasumi, Mariah Drach, Ray Few, Steven Tsai, Timothy John Qua, Anna Sophia Zaragoza, Ruth Few, Jacob Park, Raina Ong, Payden Ong, and Marty Soleride.

So my council colleague had to go up to take the photo with the certificate. Okay, we're going to make the trip a little tighter. So if I could have, from here, if I could have another piece. So right here, there's a little bit of a...

Can I have you hold it one second?

I can see everyone except my gentleman right here. There you go. Perfect. Everybody look this way real quick. Ready? One, two, three. One, two, three. A little bit to this way, sir, right here. Yes, perfect. One, two, three.

One, two, and three. Thank you.

The next group we will be recognizing is the Medical Careers Academy, San Gabriel High School. Kaylyn Chow Bowie Chen, Jennifer Jin, Alyssa Ha, Kimora Hillman, Pei Huang, Ian Zhuang, Zicai Zhuang, Caitlin Li, Kathy Li, Jia Ying Liao, Vitti Liao. Sai Lin. Jarrett Leo. Kat Luong. Ivan Lai. Sarah Meng. Samantha Nguyen. Natalia Serrano. Rennie Song. Tim Thanh. Hannah Truong. Natalie Tron, Nancy Vo, Lucy Wei, Andrew Nguyen, Ashley Wong, Safiya Young.

Okay, everybody, so .

My council colleague, together, taking a photo with.

Yeah, that's perfect. Right. Can I have you go, that side, that side. Anybody else need any comments? Okay, everybody. So if you can't see me, I can't see you. Somebody right there. Yeah, there we go. Okay, that's perfect. Everybody look right here. Ready? One, two, three. One, two, three. One more. One, two, and three. Thank you so much.

Thank you very much.

Congratulations for all of you. Next item please.

Next item is Los Angeles County Sanitation District's update. Ms. Felicia Petri, Assistant Departmental Engineer, will make the presentation.

Good evening. Thank you for having me tonight. My name is Felicia Petrie and I'm here on behalf of LA County Sanitation Districts to provide information on a potential sewer rate increase that we have that could impact the residents of San Gabriel. Mm-hm. Okay, I think it's at the end. I need to go all the way back. Okay. The sanitation districts are composed of 24 districts, 17 of which make up what we call the joint outfall system, which is what you see here in the red. And San Gabriel Valley is part of district, either district number two or district 15, and those are in the joint outfall system. So in January this year, we sent out approximately 1.5 million public notices to residents and our commercial customers, as well as about 2,000 to our industrial users that have to pay a specific surcharge fee. So we service about 5.5 million residents in LA County, and the sanitary sewer system is essential for public health, safety, and it's critical for maintaining our quality of life. Our vast network of pipes need to operate 24-7 and require constant maintenance and upkeep. The main reasons why we need an increase now is that we need to catch up with some post-COVID inflationary issues. It hit our treatment plants pretty hard. Chemicals and electricity went up a lot more than just your standard CPI. So we didn't really keep up with those as they were going higher. So we need to kind of catch up with the previous inflation is what we think is going to happen in the future. As well as we also need to invest in capital projects to maintain our facilities to avoid failing infrastructure that could lead to things like sewer spills. So a single family home in San Gabriel would pay roughly $15 to $16 a month, depending on which district you're in. So this increase would be less than $3 a month increase for a typical single family home. And we are asking for a five rate increase. So that would be year over year. There would be a $3 increase year over year. And just to give you some context, this is how we kind of stack up to other agencies that do the same thing that we do. And even with our rate increase, assuming that it's going to go through, we're still by far the lowest rates of comparable agencies. So we continuously monitor our costs for ways to save our customers money. We can do things with our purchasing, like do volume discounts for our chemicals. We have a research group that's always looking for more innovative ways to save energy and make sure our technology is as up to date as possible. And for our residential and commercial users, we do have a low water rebate program. So some of our customers may qualify to have a reduced rate on their property tax bill. It's a pretty simple application. You just have to have your water bills for 12 months and they can go on either this QR code or visit our website and it's a pretty easy application. We also are increasing our industrial wastewater rate surcharges, and that's really for large industrial users that have to pay an additional amount because they discharge a lot of suspended solids and things that other residents and commercial users don't discharge. So to summarize, we are requesting an increase to catch up with inflation. We need to fund increased operations and maintenance costs and repair and replacement of aging infrastructure. As I mentioned on the previous slide, we definitely encourage our residential and commercial users to see if they qualify for a rate rebate depending on their water usage. And on the residence notice and the commercial notices, there's ways to participate in our our hearing that's scheduled for next month, actually this month. So we do have an in-person public hearing on May 27th at 1.30 at our Whittier office. This is specifically for District 15, because we've already had one for District 2. But at that time, the board will take public comment from anybody that is interested in participating, as well as they'll hear back from our outreach efforts and any protests we might have received. And if any customers have any questions, we have multiple ways that people can contact us by phone, mail, email, or web. They can feel free to reach out to us if they have any questions on our rate increase or just the agency in general. So with that, I will take any questions, if you have any questions.

Any question?

All right, Councilmember. So you mentioned the rate increase, and when we talk about rate increase, which are necessary because things are going, they're being very expensive. How much of a percentage, you said, and you said you're going beyond CPI, right? You're using a different model, and I want to understand which model you're using.

So we have certain costs, such as electricity costs and chemical costs, that have outpaced inflation. So you think of your typical inflation in your household as maybe like 3%, but those can exceed 20%. And then we use a lot of electricity and chemicals at our treatment plants, so that's really impacted our costs. we also had a rate increase in 2022 right about the time we kind of came out of covid and we kept rates under like three percent um just because we didn't want to like impact our customers but unfortunately we saw a lot of inflation during that time and we really were using our reserves to pay for our costs so how much of a percentage are we proposing or are we looking at and for how long of a period So it's roughly a 15 to 20% increase. It kind of depends on which district you're in. And so that would be year over year for five years.

So you have a five-year cap?

Yes. This is a five-year rate package, yes.

Thank you.

well first of all i just want to say thank you very much felicia for um for the presentation um you know um i'm the alternate representative before district 2 and district 15. so robert ferrante who is the chief engineer and also general manager of la county sanitation district that has made a very clear presentations on the date of the meeting i think this is very important not only about the increase of the rate, but also issuing the bounds. So I would really want to make sure that more people will understand what the sanitation district is doing and why they will be increasing that. The fee so far is still behind, so it just brings back to the average. But I truly appreciate that we can just keep everything, including all the information, that will be very transparent and sharing to our community. And thank you so much for your time.

Thank you.

Council Member LaChenka.

Yeah, okay, thanks for the presentation. It's like I agree, the council member will say, so really keep our community the transparency and then we will need to know why we need to increase. So for your average, like $3, because I know that our city have the $5, THE WATER DISTRICT, IT'S RELATED TO THE WATER DISTRICT OR ON THE TAX BILL?

IT'S ON THE TAX BILL. IT'S THE SANITATION DISTRICT.

SO IT'S ON OUR PROPERTY TAX?

YES. IT'S A ONCE A YEAR. YOU'LL SEE IT AS A ONCE A YEAR CHARGE.

OKAY.

BUT WE DO KIND OF BREAK IT DOWN BY MONTH JUST SO PEOPLE CAN KIND OF UNDERSTAND IT'S LIKE A UTILITY.

Okay. All right, so one more question. You say the single house, just like less than $3, right? Per month, it's $3. So annually, probably.

I'm sorry?

You say, based on your presentation, it's like less than $3 per month. The increase, yes. The increase, yeah. How about the condominium units?

So our condominiums and if you have like other properties like that, it's like 75% of a single family home. Everything's basically built off a single family home. So if you have a business, you might be like considered five single family homes. So everything is kind of based off of that unit.

Okay. All right. Thank you for your explanation. Thank you.

Thank you.

Next item, please.

Next item is Senate Bill 707 briefing. City Attorney Lemieux will make the presentation.

Okay folks, I'm doing it from down here because I've got the PowerPoint for a change. We're talking about SB 707, and I'm gonna start at the end first so it's clear why we're doing this, why did I walk down here to do this. And that is, as you're about to hear, SB 707 puts some requirements, new requirements on the city that are gonna force you to spend money. And not in the future, in about 15 minutes when I'm done with the presentation. So we'll get to that in a second. We also have an additional item that will not cost any money, but that we're going to take up at the first meeting in June and I'll get to that in a second too. The good news is because your staff has been on top of this and we've been pretty aggressive about public participation since COVID and keeping that going, we're most of the way towards where we need to be already. So we're not playing too much catch up with this, but So, okay, so AB 707, it has two sort of sets of requirements. There were a number of changes to the Brown Act that went into effect on the first of the year, and we'll talk about those. That's less important for this discussion. And then there are, there are some new requirements that apply to eligible legislative bodies. Congratulations, you're eligible to be an eligible legislative body. That goes into effect July 1st, and that's why we're talking about it right now. So we're getting ready to move into that compliance. So I'll go through the general Brown Act updates first, but again, these have already been in effect now for a few months, I think we've even already talked about some of these already. So just running down the list pretty quickly, the first thing, this Just Cause, this comes out of COVID. During COVID, because of the medical emergency involving COVID, there were a number of meetings. Those of you that were there can recall that we had to do remotely on short notice. This codifies the ability of members to do remote meetings for just cause. That's typically medical issues, but there's a number of things that could qualify as just cause we can talk about. The interesting thing is unlike the normal, so there's the normal remote meeting attendance that already exists and continues to exist, and that is, You let the city clerk know where you're gonna be. You have to post the agenda. You have to have the meeting in a public place, all of that good stuff. This is an additional thing that allows you to do this on much shorter notice. It doesn't have to be on the agenda. The medical emergency can come up just before the meeting, but it has to be raised at the meeting. There has to be a finding that it's just cause at the meeting, and then you're allowed to continue to attend remotely at that point. I've already been through this a few times, and it does raise the interesting question of you're calling into the meeting already, yet you don't have permission to attend remotely. How does that work? Well, that's just what you do. And so you've got to rely on the rest of your city council members to find just cause, or you've just violated the Brown Act. The next thing is there is a ADA, Americans with Disabilities Act style accommodation to participate remotely as an elected council member if that's required due to some disability. That's different than these other, it's sort of a broader ability to attend remotely. It can be ongoing. I should mention the Just Cause one is only a few times a year. I think for you it's five times a year. The ADA one can be forever, but we have to have a policy that describes how someone is to qualify, which I don't think we do yet, but we can develop that if and when the need arises. There are some new rules for subsidiary bodies and multi-jurisdictional bodies that allow remote meetings. I don't think you guys need to hear about that tonight, but if you're curious, I can tell you. I think the things I want to highlight that would be of interest to you from this section is that Brown Act safe harbor for social media is now continuing indefinitely. So just to refresh your recollection, this is like, for example, if there was a Facebook page and you posted on the Facebook page and then another council member posted on the Facebook page on the same topic, then the AG gave the opinion that that could be a Brown Act violation. which had the effect of potentially preventing anyone from using social media to discuss anything because it could end up a Brown Act violation. This allows that you can participate in social media as long as you don't start talking amongst yourself on the platform about city business. So you can respond to public's inquiries and so on, which I think is, frankly pretty common sense to me. If you allow me to editorialize, I always found it weird that the most public forum in the world, you know, I think, with the internet, is somehow too private for the Brown Act. I mean, more people see that than necessarily see what's going on right now. But in any case, There were some changes made, minor tweaks to the 24-hour posting for special meeting requirement. I don't think that's that important for here. There was a tweak about preserving meeting recordings. But again, that's more of a Sharon thing. And then I guess the other thing that you probably noticed is we're required now to send everybody a copy of the Brown Act after they're elected. So that's another little change. So let me get to the heart of it, which is the ELB access requirements. So the main thing, the heart of this, there's really like two big chunks of this. The first is that there's now a requirement if you're, in order to be an ELB, you have to be a city with a certain population or within a community of a certain population and you guys qualify as that. So that means you now have the burden of these additional requirements that smaller communities don't have. The first one is the requirement for a two-way audio-visual platform or telephonic platform for people to provide public comment. That's gonna be on the agenda later for approval. You guys kind of are halfway there already, but this, whereas you're sort of broadcasting out, this will allow you to get those comments back. I know that some of you guys have expressed some trepidation about the potential for people being disruptive using this platform, and I understand why you might feel that way. The Brown Act allows us to adopt rules in order to moderate the behavior and expel people that are, I think they call it Zoom bombing, although I don't think any Zoom equipment is going to be involved in this. But anyway, so we'll have rules to deal with those people. But more importantly, I can tell you that the other city council meetings that I regularly attend are for Ridgecrest. And they've had two-way telephonic communication from the beginning of COVID until now. They never stopped. And it hasn't been a problem. The comments, I mean, you know, and I think your community is, frankly, well, I got to say what, got to be careful what I say because I'm going to have to go up here in front of them in a couple weeks. But let's just say I would think that problems would be more likely out there than they are here. How about that? So we'll see what happens. I don't think necessarily it has to result in a lot of problems, but if it does, we will have a policy in place to deal with it. That was the second point heading there, is the policy. So you have to approve that in open session. You can't do it on the consent calendar for some reason. So we'll do it on June 1st. There is a sort of very specific disruption procedure that is spelled out. I'm going to get to that on a later slide. The other big requirement is for translations. You have to translate the agenda and the website, but not the agenda packet, to applicable languages that have a certain definition based on population. And that has to go up 72 hours at the same time as the regular agenda does. So we qualify for that too. I think we're in the process or have identified the languages that are applicable, talking with Sharon about it. So I understand that we will be ready to start that process if we haven't already. I know we have some already on translation already. We also have to provide assistance to members of the public that are using personal interpreters. I think that's something we accommodate now. We have to establish a location where members of the public can independently post their own alternate translations of the agenda. That is a unusual requirement, but there it is. So we'll see if anyone takes advantage of that. And... You can see we have to implement reliable electronic system, uh, to fulfill requests for agendas. I think that's something we've got handled already as I understand it, uh, and maintain the contact list. Again, that's something I think we're already doing. So, uh, this is sort of a summary of the first point, which is the remote public access. Um, and uh, The bottom is the exception for when you don't need to do this. It's all the common sense stuff that you would expect. I don't know if you guys know, but the Brown Act allows you guys to have off-site meetings when you have to inspect personal property. I'm sorry, real property. It comes up for special districts a lot because they have to go look at distribution facilities. I don't think it's really come up with you guys, but... Maybe one day we'll have a trip over to the, actually tonight might be a good trip over to the Playhouse. I think there's a concert going on that might lighten things up. Anyway, so you don't have to do the two-way telephonic service for that. You have to have the same rules applying to the people appearing remotely as appear here. You can't sort of put additional hurdles on people appearing remotely so as to discourage that. If the system fails, then there is a process that we have to adopt for what to do. Basically, the meeting comes to a stop. We have to deal with the technical. We have to recess and make at least one hour worth of good faith effort to restore service, but you can go into closed session. Maybe we should have a running closed session for technical issues. We can reconvene only after the service is restored or one hour has passed. And then if service remains down, we have to make a determination that there's a need that outweighs the interest of the people appearing remotely. I hope it doesn't happen, but We'll see. This is the language translation I mentioned earlier. As you can see, the applicable language means language is spoken by 20% of the city population, where 20% of that language group speaks English less than very well. And if you end up with more than two or more than three, you use the top three. Mark, have we taken steps to identify the languages already?

I don't know if it was more than English and Chinese. I can't remember if Vietnamese was the third, but we have done that research already.

Okay. So you can see that the... So the agenda has to include instructions for joining by telephone. I think we already have that. In fact, I know we already have that. And the webpage that describes where the agendas are and the process for calling into the meeting also has to be translated into those languages, which I don't think we've done yet that I've seen. So those are the new requirements. As I said, you've got the technical side of it coming up now, but I can take any questions.

Thank you, Vice Mayor. I wanted to ask, how is this going to be explained to the public? I mean, are we going to have like a drop down menu on the website that kind of goes step by step? because there's you said this which which part the fact that um they can start calling in oh um the fact that uh we do have translation um capabilities um we will have some kind of code of conduct i'm just kind of curious how we're able to share that because i know we've worked on trying to get as many people involved at our meetings. Unless it's an issue, controversial issue, we usually don't get participation. And I know you've worked with other cities, I believe, in getting this information disseminated. I'm just curious, how is that done?

I guess the minimum legal requirements is the website. We have to maintain a website portal.

So there is a requirement to at least put it on the website, but...

And you have to have the portal and the portal has to explain all these things and it has to be translated into each of the languages. We're also obviously allowed to take whatever additional steps to publicize it that we might.

I guess that's really a question for... We're going to invest so much money, which we need to anyway, because it's a mandate, $117,000, but I know we've already spent others' monies to try to work on our systems. But it's going to be there, and then I just want it to be used. So how do we go about that?

Well, I think that's really a question for our public outreach team. Mark, do you have a thought on that?

I do, and our public outreach team is exactly what will happen. We'll do social media, we can do articles in Discover SG, things like that. There is a requirement, as Keith mentioned, to come back with that policy, so we can take that, and that has to be in an open session meeting, so we can take that time to remind the public as well, and then as Keith said, it'll be prominently on our website.

So the minimum is the website. That would be outlined in the policy that we would be publishing the information on the website.

I'm sorry, I completed two things. The policy is how we deal with the whole electronic communications or the two-way communications, how we deal with unruly folks and how we kick those people off of the call, things like that. But that's gonna be an agenda item. So we can roll into that agenda item a discussion on how we're gonna publicize all this for the...

Okay.

Community.

But it has to be effective July 1st. This goes live July 1st.

We go live July 1st.

So there's not much time left.

Yeah. I mean, we've been working on it, and I understand Mark and I have been talking about this since I think the law was signed. So I imagine we'll be ready to roll.

Okay. Well, I look forward to seeing how we do it. Thank you.

Council Member Wu. Thank you, Vice Mayor. Thank you so much for the presentation. I have a question regarding our general Brown Act update. I always have a concern about the social media use because it shows that social media safe harbors that we may use that freely to answer the questions to our constituents. But sometimes if that is something related to the city and that say, you know, there's a like, angry heart or something, there's no dislike or hate, which I really need that. But, you know, for example, Mayor is not here today. Sometimes he's a joke on Facebook. I don't like it. I said, I hate it, but I don't really find that icon. But for example, well, he's not here. But I wonder that for that kind of expressions, Would that constitute the concern of our Brown Acts? Would that trigger something saying, oh, there's another council member that say like this one, and I said I like this one, but there are more than three people. Does that mean that we are somehow that making communications for our future agenda?

Yeah, that's my question. So you're asking, is it possible to violate the Brown Act through emojis? Right.

Or can I just simply block all my comments?

I'm going to answer that question in the form of an emoji.

Emoji, yeah.

I won't. Because we have Instagram. We have Facebook. If it's a form of communication and a majority of the council engage in it, then any form of communication could theoretically violate the Brown Act, including emojis and likes and so on. Um, but, but I mean, liking, you know, I guess, I mean, it might depend on what you're liking, but I think in theory, yeah, it could, it could. Well, like, like, let's say, um, let's say some member of the public says, I really think, uh, you guys should reconsider the vote on whatever. And, um, three of you guys put likes on that. And it looks like that could have been a meeting. I mean, that's not that much different than hitting the button right now that's up there next to you by the chair, right? So that could be, you know, on the other hand, a lot of emojis are obviously silly, so it just depends on really the context. So this is hard to define.

I cannot say LOL with some of the...

I think LOL is safe, and I would encourage the use of LOL. And also, what's the rolling around on the floor? You can use that one, too.

But for that, I mean, so sometimes colleagues will follow each other, or sometimes they don't. Will follow also be a problem?

Yeah, I actually brought the code section up with me. So while you've been talking, I've been looking to find that exact section so I could read you the language of it. But it's going to take me a minute to do that. Because it's a long section. Block them.

No, I'm just kidding. No, I'm not going to block you guys.

Why don't I, let me, this section is really long. I will, if the rest of the council agree, I will whisper the answer in your ear later in the meeting after I find that section. Okay.

Okay?

Thank you.

Okay, so you have a question? No, okay. So our city attorneys, do you need to find the answer?

I'm still curious, but I can answer another question while I'm- Okay.

So the question is, how do you define what's for the city issue or something else? So just for example, for the NBA, some people like Lakers, some people like Clippers. So another council member or maybe accidentally used the emoji. THAT SHOULD NOT RELATE IT.

I'M SORRY. I GUESS I DIDN'T GET THE QUESTION. I WAS WITH YOU UP UNTIL THE CLIPPERS.

MAY I SUGGEST, VICE MAYOR, THAT YOU SEND AN E-MAIL LATER TO CLARIFY SOME OF THOSE THINGS SO WE CAN MOVE ON.

it's the the because the timeline for the july 1st so is it possible for the next time the meeting or have to get the sec during second meeting for the for the for the the policy okay yeah i found my summary so here and i got and i even have the emoji rule

So basically, it's what I said. So you can use it as long as a majority doesn't end up commenting on the same thing, just like I said. There is one other, speaking of emojis, there's one other specific prohibition, which is you're not allowed to react to, including likes, hearts, dislikes, reposting or retweeting any content posted by another member of the same legislative body involving agency business. The good news is if Eric makes a dumb pun and it's not city business, go ahead and put a dislike. Anything else, anything involving the city, it's a no.

So let's say if there will be constituents, they probably just leave a message saying, well, Council Member AB saying he agreed with C. What's your point in how you vote for it? Can I just tell them, no, I cannot answer it?

You're allowed to answer constituent questions. And broadly discuss agency matters. As long as the rest of the city council doesn't jump onto that thread, you're okay. I'm okay with that. Okay, good. So I guess give everybody space. If you see somebody on the thread, you better read the whole thread before you post, I guess is the answer to that. You don't want to be number 171 and then find the rest of the city council is buried up there somewhere in the responses.

So if we will be supporting some agenda in the future, we can post individually. We just do not communicate each other. That's correct.

Got it.

Thank you.

Okay.

Vice Mayor.

Okay.

I just want to go on the record and say, Mayor, Eric Chen, I know you're watching. I think your puns are all right. All right? Just for the record.

All right.

Vice Mayor Dink, to answer your question, we have the policy scheduled for June the 2nd. It's already been created and Martin is actually reviewing it right now, so we should have it ready to go for June 2nd. All of the other items that Keith is talking about, like the liking posts and all of that, that is already in effect. That all went in effect as of January 1st. What we're only talking about is the two-way communication and the translation portions.

And I haven't run down the checklist of, I had a slide originally where I had the checklist of all of the stuff to get you ready for July 1st. And I called up Sharon today and walked through the checklist and found that they were pretty much all done except for those items. So I didn't bother putting the checklist up. You guys are on top of it.

So any question? So no question, it's the next item, please. Thank you, Keith. Thanks. Come back.

Next item is public comment. This is the time set aside for members of the public to address the City Council on consent calendar items and on items of interest that are not on the agenda but are within the subject matter jurisdiction of the San Gabriel City Council. We have one for general public comment. First speaker is Howard Chang.

Yeah, yeah. Council Member Chang, right.

Yeah, Howard Chang.

So I'm a resident here in San Gabriel. I'm also the vice president on the Homeowner Association at the San Gabriel Nation Walk. That's located right behind the San Diego nursery. Two issues I want to bring to the council's attention and hopefully get some consideration. One is at the corner of Santa Fe and San Diego Boulevard, where you have one side is a public storage. The other side is up behind the lot next to the San Diego nursery. There's been now a taco stand, supposedly a secret taco stand. Now it's pretty public. And recently they have converted to a truck. The issue we have there is, Often, that technically should be a two-way street. You have people that's attending, parking on both sides, now effectively narrowing a street into a one-way street. There's no street light. At night, you have people basically haphazardly lining up on the street, eating the food. When people are turning in to that street, that's really dangerous. You know, we do support having businesses in the city, but it's a really dangerous hazard and just have gotten worse. The concern that the community and the residents have is, We have several residents as well have voiced their concern through the city website, through like submission of stuff, have not heard any responses. The most recent one is it was assigned to an NIS officer. I have not looked into what that stands for, but nothing. I myself have spoken to a few members of the council actually about a month ago, actually even emailed, no response. So that's what I'm tending here is we like just to see something taken care of because it's just getting really bad. And also, the problem with the taco stand is that they're every night. The smell is really bad. You can actually smell it every night in the community. Plus, a lot of trash is left behind. I know they do a pretty good job trying to clean up, but now you have wild animals and a murder of crows that actually will show up every morning picking out the remains of whatever is in the trash. And that's also a health hazard, I think. So we just want to see something to be done. Second issue I want to bring to the attention is the community's wide border along the Rubio Wash. There's also the Nature Wash that my understanding with Olson Company, when that community was developed, the Nature Wash was created to allow the public area to walk. That area hasn't just not been maintained by the city. Now the fence along the Ruby Wash, I understand technically the Ruby Wash is LA County's issue, but we have had homeless and transient people go through that into our community. About, I think it was about two months ago, there's even a fire. along that right by the wall of the community effectively is basically the homeless people using running extension cord through the wall to the outlet of the community and somehow doing something behind the wall creating effectively a fire. Once again that's been reported a few times usually it's well there's not much we can do but this that would be something better. My time is up so thank you for your consideration.

Thank you the comments and I will let our city manager Mark to the response.

Thank you, Vice Mayor. Howard, I have good news for you on both of those items. So on the taco stand, we have started doing heavy enforcement all throughout the city, not just on that stand. We started last weekend. We're not going to be able to do it this weekend, but we will be doing enforcement over the next several weeks to try to clean up the illegal vendors. There are ways for vendors to be legalized. and we can only do so much under the state codes, but we will do everything we can to make sure that those stands and food trucks are complying. I hope you'll see some improvement in that, and then as far as the mission walk, your president of the association contacted us last week, and our new public works director did a heck of a lot of research into who's supposed to maintain what, and I apologize, but we found out we're supposed to maintain more than we thought, and I think The president of your association found out that you're supposed to maintain more than you thought. Long story short, we're committed to cleaning up the area that we need to clean up. We're committed to putting some fencing in to try to stop people from moving in and out of that area. And then we're also committed to working with the county to fix their part so that hopefully you won't have those issues in the future. I apologize you haven't received responses. I can tell you that the council response, the emails they received, so there must have been a mistake and we changed over to a new email domain. So that may have happened, but I get emails forwarded from the five of them all the time and they are very on it. So please bear with us and give me your contact information or I have it from the city clerk and we'll make sure we get back to you. You're welcome.

Thank you, Mark.

All right, the next six speakers are for item 4E. which is the seventh amendment to the amended and restated agreement with Eric Kelly and Enterprises Incorporated doing business as Athens Services for the implementation of a third recycling bin and rate adjustment for commercial accounts. The first speaker that we have is Carol Yang. Oh, sorry.

Thank you, Adam. Vice Mayor, we have a couple of options. We can take the way we normally would do. We would take all comments on the consent calendar items at one time. If one of the council members is going to pull that item, then you also have the option to hold those comments until we pull that item and do them at the same time as that item. It would be the choice of the presiding officer and the council to decide how to handle that. Okay.

So the rest of the public comments is related to the item 4E? Adam? Is most of the public comments regarding that?

Yes, that's correct. We have six speakers. And we have also one submitted that was done through email.

Through the email, too. Okay, good. So the rest of the council members is okay to do the... If anyone want to pull out, actually I want to do the next item for the consent calendar. If they consider the pull out item, maybe we can... take care of the consent calendar first, and then we can discuss, focus on the item for the people. They're really interesting. Is that okay?

Vice Mayor, I just want to clarify, now we are still in the public comment, which means that we will be having the public comment, but it's not really listed on our agenda.

so that's my feeling so that's why I asking the Adam regarding the the public comment it's it's not a general comment so it's it's related to that you specify item I think is a better to with our the discussion so if you got I got a support so just we move it on the next item and then yeah

So I agree, so we need to move to the next item, and then ask if anyone wants to pull anything.

Yeah.

And then we can approve the remaining agenda item, or we can wait until.

Right, that's the calendar, yeah. I think also timeline, also it's really efficiency to moving the agenda moving forward. That's I feeling, okay. So if we agree, so just go for the next item.

So we're moving to the consent agenda?

Yes.

Okay. So we're there.

Okay.

So then now we ask, does anyone want to pull an agenda?

Yeah, okay. So we just next item, so then have the option.

So, right, okay. So next item is consent calendar. All items listed under the consent calendar are considered routine and recommendations will be approved in one motion unless a member of the city council requests separate discussion. Also, we have received a ring comment from Adriana Ruiz, Vice President of the Las Tunas Town Homes and resident, requesting for item 4E to be removed from the consent calendar.

Okay, so would any council member like to pull an item for the separate discussion?

Yes, I will. I would like to just put an item of 4E for separate discussion and approve the rest of the consent items.

And I'll second to approve the rest of the consent agenda items.

Actually, that's it. I already have the motion by the Council Member Wu to pull out the item 4E for separate discussion and the motion by a motion by the council member Wu and second by council member Menchaca so we need to move right oh okay the motion also included approval of the remainder oh yeah yeah okay motion also approved the remainder the consent calendar so if we it's just one vote it's the rest of it should we take care of the business and then we discuss the item four E, right? Is that correct?

Yeah, just for clarity. So the way this ordinarily works is you ask everybody wants to pull anything. people pull things that's off the consent calendar okay then you take a motion to approve the consent calendar with those things with not including the things that were pulled off so two motion you don't really need a motion to pull anything i guess is what i'm trying to clarify the motion is just to approve the balance the rest of the calendar okay then you'll go back to the pulled items and treat them just like any other agenda item one at a time okay so

So council member, could you just go ahead and clarify your motion?

Yes, I would like to motion to put item number 4E. Oh, I'm sorry, approve the item for separate discussion, then approve for the rest of the items on consent calendar.

So the motion only needs to be move approval to consent calendar, not including item 4E.

Okay, and I'll second it.

Oh, I see.

Okay, good. Yes, L-O-L, yes, good. Thank you, our city attorney. So it's already clarified, so please vote.

MOTION PASSES BY A VOTE OF 4-0.

VICE MAYOR?

SHOULD BE CHANGING TOO.

HE'S OUT, YEAH.

NO, I'M HERE.

OH.

OH, THEY'RE HERE. THAT'S OKAY. OKAY.

VICE MAYOR?

OKAY.

MAY I ASK FOR A FIVE-MINUTE RECESS?

OKAY. SO WAIT FIVE MINUTES FOR THE HEALTH BREAK. SO I THINK IT'S A HELP TO OUR DISCUSS FOR THE, YEAH, OKAY. So we come back, we recess the meeting on the 7.50 p.m. and come back at 7.55? Okay. So next item, please. The next for the pool item for the number 4E and so yeah. The first speaker is Carol Yang.

Hi, good evening, Major and City Council. My name is Carol Yan, and I run an auto repair shop and a mechanical shop in Singapore City. So I'm not here to talk about public tonight. I'm here just as a small business owner. So recently, a lot of us just started to understand this garbage contract change. And honestly, I'm super worried about it. From what we've seen, rate could go up a lot. From same business, it's like going from around 300 to 600 a month. That's not small for us. Right now, we are already dealing with high rent, labor, insurance, everything went up. So it's just add more pressure. What also concerns us, It's a contract length, it's very long, and it's auto-renewed. That makes people wonder, will it still be fair completion in the future? We're not against waste service. We understand the state's requirements. But decision like this long-term and expensive, we just hope the city can slow down, be more transparent, and really listen to local business and residents. Thank you. Thank you.

Next. Next speaker is Wendy Wang.

Hi. Good evening, honorable mayor and city council members and fellow residents. My name is Winnie Wang. I'm a resident of San Gabriel for 22 years. I'm also a candidate for San Gabriel City Council in 2026. However, tonight I was not here for a politic. I'm here as a resident, as someone who deeply cares about our community, speaking on behalf of many residents and local business owners. Athen is a really professional waste management company. And as a resident, I appreciate their work, but this is not about any company. This is about how we as a city governor for our residents. Only reason have many residents and businesses truly begun to understand the detail of this garbage contract amendment. And after learning more about it, many people have become deeply concerned. According to the public record, back in 2020, the city of San Gabriel approved a garbage contract amendment and rate adjustment rate to SB 1383 compliance. But now the city is composing another long-term rate increase structures. What concerns many residents, even more than that, that means nearly $200 increase every month and increase for more than 60% every year for 26% of interest. For many restaurants, small businesses and partners, properties owner, that is absolutely not a small amount. So the real concern for many people is, will this type of long-term ongoing and uncapped rate increase structure become a long-term burden on residents and small businesses? So tonight, I'm not here to oppose waste management services. However, I believe that the contract of this price structure in this scale and the decision that could affect residents for a decade should be discussed more openly and transparent with the public. I respect and ask city to truly listen to the voice of residents and small businesses because I went around to the city like the past two days. I talked to the supermarket and the small business owner. Not a lot of people are aware about that. So that's really a concern that I want to ask.

Okay, thank you.

Next speaker is Estela R. Garcia.

So my name is Stella Garcia and I have my twin brother with me. Both of us have lived in the city of San Gabriel for over 50 years. And this new trash amendment is going to affect us tremendously as we're all getting older. The potential impact of the cost of living is already pretty high. With this new amendment, having Athens increase the cost of the trash, It impacts us tremendously, especially long term.

I mean, I guess if I were to add anything, it's just incentives matter. So if you have a contract where you're locked in for 20-some years and, you know, really what that strikes to me is like monopoly behavior. Now, I'm not against companies raising their prices, but, you know, if we as a city are locked into something where we have no ability to renegotiate, if it looks like, hey, these rates are increasing kind of high, is that reasonable, normally what a consumer would do, a city would do is, okay, you shop around again, and if it looks like that's pretty much what the market is, and you're not gonna get better rates, then you stick with it. So if there's any sort of chance that that could be re-looked at, does it mean you have to change the the company that we use, but I just think incentives matter, and if a company knows that they have pricing power and there's not much that you can do about it, well, it's human nature. That's what they're gonna do. They're gonna raise rates, because why not, right?

So basically what we're saying is we're hoping that this contract can be revisited. I know it was passed in 2020, but if these rates are going to be increased, can't we comparatively shop with other agencies, with other trust companies to find if this is cheaper? I know that I saw the city of Rosemead in Alhambra, which are using a totally different company. It's a much cheaper rate. Yes, they are increasing rates because of this AB law that came into effect, but it's much lower than it is for us potentially. So I, as a resident, because I am going to be impacted, I would like the city to consider looking at other options instead of increasing our rates and sticking with one contract when there are many other options. We are in a capitalistic society, and that's what capitalism affords us. Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you. Next speaker is X Tang.

Do you have a translator?

Yeah.

OK. So yeah. OK. So whatever translated, you should be translated everything.

Yeah.

OK. Thank you.

I don't understand the science.

So he represents the San Gabriel community wanting to talk about this amendment. So I invited him here.

Who invited?

Oh, Wendy Wang invited one of our residents here.

According to my understanding of this bill, in the case that the local Chinese community did not know about it, the garbage cleaning company changed the contract from 7 to 10 years to 25 years.

He said so far as he knew this bill without knowledgement of local Chinese, Asian American communities and the garbage cleaning company has changed from seven to 10 years to 25 years contract.

If this agreement is signed in the case that most of the local residents are not aware of it, it will reduce the cost of living for the local residents. This is no problem. But the information I have learned so far is that some of the users have raised the garbage cleaning fee from $300 per month to $500.

So if most of the local residents are unaware of this agreement then signing this agreement has reduced I mean if this agreement is about reducing the life costing of the local residents some extent then there's no doubt however as far as he know some of their users some of the residents haven't know have not know anything from their monthly the contract information.

If that's the real case, this matter is unreasonable because it must involve local residents knowing about this matter. Both Chinese American and other race and other communities should get involved with them and let them know to make a vote. He said Chinese population have in the city of San Gabriel are over 40%.

The next 40% of them will hope to involve into the making various public affair decision.

Especially for those decision-making harms the public interest, he will get involved and keep an eye on this matter.

Especially from... Ordinary resident in San Gabriel don't have time because of job to get involved in such things, but he do, so he have time.

So in the future, he's going to move into San Gabriel, and he's really...

wanted to know more about San Gabriel in the future.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Next speaker is Jordan Guzman.

Good evening council members. My name is Jordan Guzman. I'm a proud resident of San Gabriel and I'm here tonight to respectfully oppose consent calendar item 4E, the proposed seventh amendment with Athens services. So this amendment will harm many commercial and multifamily customers in our city. Sorry. A typical three-yard commercial bin will see monthly rates jump from $312 to $502. So that's an increase of $190, and that's a 60.8% increase, which is pretty substantial. So even customers already using organics will pay an extra $63 per month. These are significant increases for small businesses, restaurants, and apartment owners, especially in today's economy. Things are pretty difficult right now. The city already approved rate increases in the Fifth Amendment on September 1st, 2020, specifically to address costs from AB 1826 and SB 1383. Now we're being asked for yet another major change, including a new rate formula, and that's trash CPI plus 1%, and that will virtually guarantee automatic annual increases going forward. So I urge the City Council to reject or substantially modify this amendment and direct staff to pursue more cost-effective ways to meet state mandates. I also strongly encourage all affected property owners to submit written protests under Proposition 218, and thank you so much for your time. Thank you.

Next speaker is Thomas Parcelli.

Good morning, everybody. Good evening, Vice Mayor, council members, and community members. My name is Thomas Purcelli. My wife and I, we own a couple of businesses here in the city of San Gabriel, Luna's Bar and Grill, and Roxy's Liquor and Mini Mart. I'm here tonight to express concern, as my other fellow members, about this agenda item 4E, the proposed increases tied to the Athens Services Agreement. According to the report that I read, the commercial customers with a standard three-yard bin would increase from about $400 to over $500 per month under the new bundled system. That's future annual increases tied to the trash CPI plus an additional 1%. For small businesses like ours, these costs add up quickly. Our own trash bill in the year 2024 increased $130. That's a 30% jump. It went from $430 to $556. Now, $300 of that bill is associated with recycling and related mandated service charges. And that's just for me for one business. In addition to the city franchise fees. All this at a time when restaurants are already struggling with rising food costs, payroll, insurance, utilities, and inflation. For some of us, this becomes a very serious burden. I also want to point out that businesses with organic waivers would still be required to pay the bundled rate, even if they do not use the organic service. Another concern is the lack of competition. I obtained a quote from Republic Services today in a neighboring area that services communities right around us, and what they quoted me was $370 per month. I'm paying $556 for the same service that they offered me today. Now, over time, that's $2,000 less than what I'm currently paying that I could save if I had the opportunity to switch. But as we all know, because of the city's exclusive franchise agreement, businesses have no ability to seek competitive pricing or negotiate lower rates. Now, I understand the city must comply with SB 1383. and the state mandates. I support responsible environmental programs, but there are also needs that need to be balanced, transparency, protections for the businesses and residents that are paying these bills. I respectfully ask the Council to slow this process down, conduct an independent review of the proposed rate structure, and consider stronger protections or limits on future increases before approving this amendment. Small businesses are already carrying a heavy cost just to stay open. Please make sure these changes do not place an even greater burden on the very businesses that help keep San Gabriel thriving. These small businesses are part of the backbone of San Gabriel. We employ local residents, support community events, and contribute to the economic vitality of this city. We simply ask for a fair, transparent, and balanced process when it comes to mandatory service costs that we cannot opt out of. Thank you for your time and consideration.

Thank you.

Our last speaker is Camelia Vera.

GOOD EVENING, VICE MAYOR AND CITY COUNCIL AND STAFF. I ONLY HEARD ABOUT THE POTENTIAL RATE INCREASE JUST RECENTLY THROUGH SOCIAL MEDIA, AND SO I CAME. I DON'T KNOW MUCH ABOUT IT. I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S JUST FOR COMMERCIAL OR IF IT INCLUDES RESIDENTIAL. I'M SURE WE'RE ALL HERE. I do want to suggest that maybe this item could be reviewed in a way where there's more transparency. I've been a resident of the city for over 30 years and I don't know how long our contracts are with Athens. I don't know when it expires. These are things that I think the residents should know. And I also agree that we should be keeping prices low for businesses because when I go to the businesses, they always talk about the cost to do business in San Gabriel and they say it's costly. And so I'm hoping that these businesses can stay in business. So that's important. But one thing that I, when I saw San Marino change to a different trash company, I said, oh, I guess, you know, we don't have to be at the mercy of these contractors that are doing business. If we don't like their services, Athens is giving good service. I just think that we should be looking at all the different other service providers and maybe getting requests for proposals to see what kind of services they can offer. And I understand that there are some mandates that you do have to comply with, which is why you're gonna have the third bin. So I just wanna say, consider competition, consider others, because if it could provide better or the same service to the residents, we should be looking at those. Thank you.

Thank you. No more speaker cards. No more speaker cards. So have any online? It's already, yeah. So I think it's already read online. Okay. So... So all the rest of my colleagues, the council member have any clarified question or just this delivery? Just delivery. Okay. Okay. Council member Avila Avila. Thank you. Avila Avila. Okay.

Thank you, Vice Mayor. So here are the concerns. I have questions. I have questions. I have a lot of questions. Actually, I had about 40 questions, and I narrowed it down to 15 questions. Okay, I want to make sure to respect everybody's time, but at the same time, I want to make sure that my questions are answered because I represent the community and the people first, and I understand that Athens, you know, we've had Athens for many, many years, over 40 years, and I can't You know, the service is amazing, but the rates, these new rates are a little bit high for me. So I do have a few questions. Let me get started. So we have a representative of Athens that can answer the questions. My first question is going to be, yeah. Yeah.

We have the company representative. Thank you for coming to explanation. Yeah, thank you.

So first question, what is Athens current diversion rates for San Gabriel? What specific operational charges or changes or investments were implemented since the 2020 SB 1383 amendment to achieve these compliance?

Mr. Mayor and Council, thank you. My name is Gary Clifford. I'm the Senior Executive Vice President of Athens Services, and I've been involved with the City for over 18 years. It's nice to see you tonight. I'd like to make a statement and then take notes. I took copious notes during the public comment. I would also like just for the public to know that when you look at the staff report, the staff report on page three does show the new rates with the same uh service if you look at the paragraph below the rates it says clearly customers can reduce their costs by downsizing their trash bin when practical by making sure recyclables and organics are placed in the correct bins i won't read the whole thing but there's a paragraph there that i think is very important and i think that through social media and just through misinformation there's been some misleading things and i brought a chart in here that explains this, and I'll leave this with the council too. I just want the people that are here to know that I have my staff, our staff and my cards here. I'll spend as much time as I need to talk to them specifically, but in the case of someone who currently has a three yard bin, they have a three yard bin, I heard somebody say that, and they currently pay $438.80, and the new rate is 502.37, that is correct. But they're getting additional equipment, and our staff goes out there and resizes their equipment, so they won't have a three-yard bin anymore. They'll have a recycling container, and they'll have an organics container. They'll have three containers now to supply and to comply with Senate Bill 1383 differently than in 2020. When they do that resizing, which is actually more capacity, equal to or more than what they currently have, their rate will go down 7% to 431.59. And I think that's really important for everybody to hear. Senate Bill 1383 not only makes you have to do additional things, you have to do things. If you choose not to do those, you could pay more money. That's how it works because we have to pay more money. But if you do what the Senate Bill's intended to do by our sisters and brothers up in Sacramento that passed this, and you do the recycling like you're supposed to, and you put the stuff out of the trash barrel into the blue barrel, do you understand what I'm saying? you can downsize your trash rate. And this is on record, so I'm just telling you that your new bundle would be a two-yard bin with an organic barrel and a recycling barrel, and that cost is 431.59. That's cheaper than the current rate without the rate increase. Do you all understand that math? And I'll leave this with you. And there's also the same scenario for people who have a waiver right now. And there's also the same scenario for someone who has multiple pickups. Additionally, there is no residential rate increase at all. Your residential customers are going to get a blue barrel additional capacity and there is no rate increase. The annual rate increase in the future will change to CPI plus one, that's one additional percent. So whatever you were gonna get this year, and I'll make, if the number was four or 5%, it'll be 1% more as the contract goes on. But there is no change in the residential rate other than the annual increase. So I'm gonna, I'll take notes on the questions, and I think you asked about the cost. There's millions of dollars of costs in the Blue Barrel.

Can I repeat my question? yes yes you may i just want to make sure that question gets answered appreciate you uh taking the time to address some of the comments um which i i strongly disagree with what you said but respectfully of course um what is the athens current diversion rates for san gabriel and i'll separate that question do we know what are these diversion rates i know that sb the 1383 mandated that we reach 75% diversion rate by year 2025. That is incorrect, sir.

If this council wants me to respond to each one, I will, but that's incorrect. What Senate bill 1383 says that you have to eliminate 75% of the organic material from going to a landfill. Then that changed in 2026. from 2025, which was 50%. So what Senate Bill 1383 requires is that you have to eliminate the organic fraction, which is the food waste, basically, from what goes to a landfill. So we report the diversion to your city monthly, and that diversion rains. We guarantee you that you have 50% diversion, which you're supposed to have. That's the diversion rate. That's incorrect. Under AB 939. That's incorrect.

Where are we supposed to be at 2025?

In the Senate bill, you're supposed to be at 50% diversion rate for all your recyclables in the city.

What about the 75%?

The 75% is the organic fraction that goes to the landfill, and you're compliant with that.

So we are compliant with that?

Yes. When you go to the three-barrel system, you will be compliant with that. You can't get that.

So when we go to that, when we go there, we're not there yet. So right now, as it is, we're not talking about after this. We're talking about before this.

Right now you have a two barrel system, and we're removing the fraction from that system. You have to take that to a high diverting MRF, which requires 75% diversion of the organic fraction. We don't have that. So by going to the blue barrel, we'll be able to get your organic fraction 75, it's already not going to the landfill. We use it as a beneficial reuse. So your customers will change from putting everything into one bin, to putting the recyclables into a blue barrel and all of the food waste, organic waste, and other waste that qualifies as organics into the green barrel. All that will be in the black barrel is trash. So you can downsize that and downsize your cost. But you're compliant right now with AB 939, which is the 50% bill, you're compliant with 1826, and as of January 1st, and we've been negotiating this for a long time, you will be compliant when you move to the third barrel of taking 75% of the fraction of the organic fraction away from a landfill. And you'll be doing that by changing from a two barrel system to a three barrel system, which has a significant impact in cost because you now have another piece of equipment and you now have another trip with a truck. There's a service fee to come out and come to your house three times instead of two times or one time. Okay, but we're not compliant right now, right?

Okay, we're gonna move on to the next question. Okay. And we need to meet, we need to be compliant. My understanding is that we had to be compliant by 2025. That's for some of the stuff that I'm gonna go over. But we're gonna move on. Thank you for that. During the 2020 agreement and SB 13 amendments, did Athens believe the proposed structure would satisfy the anticipated compliance requirement? And if so, what specifically did they change between then and now that required another major amendment to escalate the structure?

Thank you for the question. When you did your amendment in 2020, it was compliant because the two barrel system was compliant and allowed to take 50% of the organic fraction out of the waste stream. In 2026, that changed to 75%. The two barrel system was not compliant with that and no one foresaw that. So that had to change from a two barrel system to a three barrel system. And that's what we have been negotiating. I believe in city manager can help me maybe mid 2025 for over a year. And I would like to note that I believe. I believe as an expert in this field and also as an elected official in my own community, I believe that your staff and your council did an excellent job, your city manager negotiating an unfunded mandate that actually allows for the new system, three barrel system, to be put into place and actually allow customers to have a rate decrease when applicable instead of a rate increase. I think that's a significant move that not everybody was able to do, but I want you to understand that So you understand the change. Our people go out to every commercial and multifamily customer, every one of them, and they change their service unless they want to keep it the same. And if they want to keep it the same and they want additional capacity, they will pay more if that's what they choose to do. But my argument would be, you know, we service many, many cities and the majority of those cities have downsized the rate and adjusted that to where it did not have an impact on the customer as stated tonight.

So I strongly disagree with that, and since you mentioned the city manager, I kind of want to get some of the city manager's points on this 2026 change, that now we're facing this amendment change because of this 2026 change, because I was not aware of this change.

I'm sorry, Councilman Herrera-Avila, I didn't get the question. I heard the statement, but was there a question?

Yes, so a gentleman made, what was your name again? Gary Clifford. Mr. Clifford made a statement that regulations have changed since 2026. I kind of want to understand what regulations is he talking about as I'm not familiar with any regulations that have changed within SB 1383 other than that the state, and this is nothing that has changed other than the state is actually enforcing the 75% diversion rates.

as of recently i didn't hear mr clifford say that the the regulations have changed what i heard him say and what we have been discussing with athens we've been coming from the premise that the state changed its way of allowing the murphs to meet that compliance rate the state has come back and said to cities, we've been on calls with Cal Recycle for the last year or so. They are saying to us that sending the trash to the MRF does not qualify anymore. And that's what we've been told. I can't verify that or I don't know Athens business model. but what we have been told is that if they take it to the three barrel system, we still won't gain any more reduction in the trash that we're throwing away because the trash is what the trash is, what all of the residents and businesses of the city throw away. That is what it is, that's static. It's just that separating it into a three barrel system allows more of that same amount of trash to be recycled or composted depending on where it goes. and CalRecycle is allowing that to count for that mandate that was back in SB 1383 adoption days and the new mandate in 2026. So to sum up the question that you're asking, I'm not aware of anything that's changed other than some reporting requirements. There have been some auditing and more reporting requirements that have come down, but the diversion was there when we adopted the amendment in 2020. My understanding of the change is that Cal Recycle has changed the way they allow us to account for that. So Haller is having to make that change. I can't verify any of that.

No, I appreciate it. I want to make clear that nothing has changed within the law of SB 1383. I just want to make sure that's factual. With that said, I kind of want to go back to this question of we were... Anticipating, I feel that Athens and the city was doing this at best judgment as anticipating back in 2020 that we were gonna be okay with the two barrel systems. And unfortunately that's not the case right now because many of the MRFs are not getting approved. or not meeting that mandate, the 75% diversion mandate, which I think is very unfortunate. I believe that when I looked at the system of CalRecycle, there was three that somehow got approved. One of them is here locally, and they're meeting a high diversion, more than 75% diversion rate. And it's quite unfortunate that now, you know, Athens is facing this. You guys, I hope, were working towards getting approval, I'm sure. So I kind of want you to help educate us on Where were you then? You guys anticipated this happening now, and we hope not to be here in this situation. If we would have gone down the path of a three-barrel system, which was an option, we wouldn't be here right now. We would be okay. But because we did the two-barrel system, and the MRF is not getting approved by a state, IT'S UNFORTUNATE. SO I WANT TO SEE IF YOU CAN, MR. CLIFFORD, IF YOU CAN GIVE US AN OVERVIEW, GIVE US AN UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT HAPPENED AND WHERE YOU GUYS WERE AT, WHERE WERE YOU GUYS TRYING TO DO TO MEET THAT MANDATE SO THAT WE'RE NOT HERE RIGHT NOW?

Yeah, I think I understand your question clearly and I believe that the changes in law going from 50 to 75% were remarkable and the changes in methodology going from two barrel to three barrel were also remarkable events. We've been talking to this city about going to three barrel for quite some time. The city chose to continue the two barrel and to not go to three barrel and in 2026 when they started enforcing those measures, and CalRecycle was coming directly to the city and talking to them about not removing 75% of the organic fraction from the waste stream, we started talking about the three barrel system. And the three barrel system now is what CalRecycle desires you to go to. And we are working on our MRFs to get to a 75% level, but the amount of money that it would cost to process waste at that level is much more significant than having a three barrel system. And the city chose, I think wisely, to go to the three barrel system and to mitigate the costs of that by doing the outreach, the education, and the long term amortization of that cost over the time of this contract. I think that's a fair assessment.

Mr. Clifford, look, I understand. I understand that everything takes, you know, it takes money, right? If we're adding a new barrel, it's going to take money. Somebody has to pay for that extra cost. It's beyond the contract, so that's why we're here trying to amend that so that we can try to meet and meet that mandate, right? So I appreciate that. I just want to be frank that we're trying, that this is an opportunity for for us to ask clarifying questions, because this is not just an easy thing, an easy pill to swallow. People are gonna be impacted by this. And it's happening not only with trash, we just saw it right now with the sewers presentation. It's happened across the board. But the sewer presentation, they have a five year cap, but that's different. We cannot compare apples to oranges, but we can see where the trend is going, especially with inflation, and we don't know where we're gonna be. So thank you for that. I'll try to be more speedy with my answers. If you try to be a little bit more succinct with your answering, then we'll be done with this process pretty soon. And I appreciate your time, Mr. Clifford. I'm gonna skip this question because that was covered. Okay, I'll go to my question number four. why are some of the other mixed waste processing facilities, and I think we're already kind of hit on this, but I kind of want to ask it again, just to get more succinct on this. Why are some of these mixed waste processing facilities reportedly achieving the higher diversion rates, and has Athens or the city independently verified the comparable facilities and performances on their levels?

Yes, I think there's one local MRF that the cost, the tipping fee and the cost of what it would cost to take the waste there is very, very high, much more significant than the tipping fee that this city pays for where they go. And I think that Athens has a facility that would qualify as high diverting MRF, the cost of getting the waste there in another city is much more expensive than the cost of going to the three barrel system. And I would again reiterate as you answer these questions that I think staff What was foremost with staff when they were renegotiating these rates is to make sure that the rate payer, if they comply with SB 1383, with the three barrel system, they would be able to mitigate the rate increase. And that's what the downsizing, that's the significance of that paragraph that is right below the rates that I read to you in the opening. Which is a big part of the staff report, I think.

Thank you, Mr. Clifford. I'm not against going through the three-barrel system so that we become compliant. That's one of the priorities, but my priority is going to be representing the residents and making sure that everybody is able to have a... good quality of life here. So anyways, let me move on and ask a couple more questions here. If the city is ultimately exposed to the potential state penalties or enforcement risk related to the diversion of SB 1383 compliance, who bears the responsibility at this point without this amendment, who bears the responsibility of the cost under the current agreement?

Right now, the city is responsible for Senate Bill 1383, and they would be responsible. This amendment gives the city indemnity, meaning we take responsibility. If you change from the two-barrel to the three-barrel in the Seventh Amendment, we take the responsibility of any compliance, fines, or anything.

Right, but other than that amendment, we want to go back, and let's not talk about that amendment. As it is, with the current contract that we have with Athens Services, who is responsible?

The city.

For the new compliance level. I don't know if I can agree with that.

And I assume your point is because the city chose for the toucan system. Correct. opened up the possibility of . That is correct, sir. And that's it.

And I think we're working together. We're in that period, which is why we negotiated that, but yes, sir.

But the two-barrel system, you can still use it, but you have to meet the diversion requirements. So I feel that if we get penalized because we have not met that mandate, that I can argue that we have a contract with them that they said they were going to meet that.

Yeah, I'm not telling you I agree with it, but just the point.

that's being made here is that we elected to choose a methodology that the state later disfavored and the state's going to fine us ultimately the state has not disfavored it because it's still making it available and accessible but it's very costly that's the biggest argument to be fair across the board it's still a thing that we could use but even if we want to keep the two barrel system respectfully we will have to increase rates because it's going to cost a lot more money

Do you mind me asking him something along those lines? If we keep the 75%, let's just talk about other cities too. Is anyone keeping the 75%? Because the way I understood it with SB 1383, that the state is just saying, you know, it has to be three barrels now. That is correct. Because it's almost impossible to get a 75% because people are not complying. They're not moving things in the proper bin. And so that's why the state is saying we need to stop this because we want more. We want more to take place.

None of our customers and none of the customers that I'm aware of are retaining a two-barrel system. They're all going to a three-barrel system.

If I might add on that, yeah, it is very difficult if we have the two-barrel system. And I wish we would have, and we don't want to go play the spectator sport where we wish we could have done something different before. But it's harder to divert the trash because they have all these different requirements of contamination. If the pizza box has grease and has some cheese on it or something, now you have to put it in a separate, different container. DIFFERENT BIN, SO IT'S VERY DIFFICULT TO MAINTAIN THAT.

THAT'S WHAT THE STATE WANTS. YOU MAY NOT WANT IT, BUT THEY WANT US TO CHANGE OUR BEHAVIOR. AND WE'RE IN CALIFORNIA, SO WE HAVE THE STRICTEST LAWS THAN ANYONE ELSE. YOU CAN GO TO A DIFFERENT STATE AND I BET YOU THEY HAVE ONE BARREL.

anyway no i get you no i i get you we have to understand that we have to go to the three barrels yeah we we our hands are being tied and as usual it's you know councilmember manchaca right uh you know what i'm about to say this is this is supposed to be the clarifying question not the council discussion section well that's part of clarifying why is it clarifying with consent agenda yeah but it we treat this once we pull it off consent we treat it just like any ordinary item So my recollection is that Director Avila was finishing off, I hope, his questions. I hope that's.

I'm at question six. Allow me to ask my question. He's got 23 minutes. And Mr. Clifford is more concise on answering the actual question and not adding a little bit more. SAUCE ON THE PIZZA, WE APPRECIATE IT.

I DO WANT TO UNDERSTAND THE PROCEDURE OF QUESTIONS. THIS IS CONSENT AGENDA. WE'VE ALREADY HEARD PUBLIC COMMENT. THIS IS OUR TIME TO DELIBERATE. IT'S NOT CLARIFYING QUESTIONS. IT'S DELIBERATION BY THE COUNCIL.

WE MOVE TO DELIBERATION?

Well, but we've already had public comment. It's clarifying public comment.

I guess the other thing is we didn't have a staffer. Would it be a mixed use at this point?

Actually, yeah, I already asking which is for me, sorry, I clarify, say it right now the clarify question, but it looks like no clarify questions, it's for the delivery. I'm asking clarifying question.

I still have, I'm at six. I really want to speed through this. I had 40 and I've been doing the process of being respectful and all that and I still have...

I CAN HAVE LIKE A FEW MORE QUESTIONS. YEAH. OKAY. WE HAVE THE CAP TOTAL MEETING UNTIL RIGHT NOW.

WHAT IS THE CAP?

IT'S 846.

CAN I CONTINUE WITH MY QUESTION? YEAH.

OKAY. SO I JUST WANT TO HAVE SOME SUGGESTION. SO IS IT POSSIBLE YOU CAN

have the like i don't want to limit your your question but uh but we're having another another yeah absolutely discussion absolutely yeah okay i'll try to be faster if mr clifford answers the questions succinctly then we can move forward and then let's not add extra stuff here so i'll be quick in 2020 uh the city already passed and approved sb 1383 related to amendments with two separate 7% increases, right? And this was to justify and to justify all the efforts that were gonna go into SB 13 and meeting that mandate at that point in time. What specifically were those increases intended to fund and how do we avoid residents and businesses effectively paying twice for a similar service?

I would say that the impacts of going from two-barrel to three-barrel are what has changed, which is more equipment and more tricks, more service.

I'm talking about back then we already charged 7%. That's what I'm saying.

You charged them for without not having a third barrel and not having the service. That was the first part of the question. And what was the second part? uh the i i'm telling you that your residents are not being impacted again and that your commercial customers if they don't change their behavior they will get a rate increase but i can't imagine a restaurant that's getting more capacity that wouldn't downsize their trash and save money i mean that's that's what 90 of the customers do so my my answer to your question is simple There's been a sea change in how you eliminate 75% of the organic fraction at the landfill. You're going to a three barrel system which requires more equipment and more service. And your staff has tried to mitigate that by not having an impact to the residents and by being able to mitigate the impact to your commercial and multifamily customers by downsizing and rightsizing their equipment.

Thank you. I'm scratching one of my questions, so I'm going to go down and go to my question seven. I'm not going to ask question seven, I'll ask question eight. So I have 14 questions and might have less than that, okay? What protections are we implementing in this new contract that are going to safeguard the residents and multifamilies, properties, restaurants, especially small businesses, particularly giving the immediate impact on some of these commercial accounts that they may face. I know we have about 200 plus accounts that are gonna get the 60% increase and we have about 1,000 accounts that are gonna get the 14.4% increase.

Councilmember that's not accurate. I don't think that none of I don't think they're gonna get that increase I think they're gonna downsize they're going to go through this process I said and I would argue that 75% of them are gonna get actually qualify for a rate decrease I'm just answering your question that they're not going to do that They're not just gonna simply say I'm not going to change my behavior and I'm not going to comply with that Well, I that depends on I and then we take The good news here is that we take the responsibility for the compliance. There's seven main components for the compliance, the software, the reporting, the little Jeeps that drive around and look in the trash barrels and take the assessments and the route audits. We do all of that.

I want to retain my time here. Okay. you're going on, and I don't agree that everybody's gonna say, well, let's be compliant. That's gonna be a partnership with Athens, the city, and the actual commercial customers to see if they're willing to do that, first of all. And if they do, they will be saving some money. I agree with you on that point. But it's not automatically gonna be like, everybody's signing up. It takes a process. So I hope that that becomes a thing where we get most of the people that could save some money, that we can right-size, and it's a process, so let's move on. Thank you. Why is the proposal moving from a traditional CPI model to an uncapped trash CPI plus a 1% structure And what do Athens and staff realistically project rates could be 10 to 20? Because we have an evergreen style contract. We went from 11 years, which I believe was an evergreen also style contract back in 2020. We agreed to go with the 25 years. So now we're at about 20 years, but then... It's a whole process, and I'm not gonna clarify what all of that means. If anybody has questions, I could talk to you about that on the side, but that's not the point of this. The point is that in 10 years from now, with the trash CPI and the 1% on top of that, how do we have a model of average, how is that gonna look for our residents and for our commercial customers 10 and 15 and 20 years down the line? because I feel that this is gonna start compiling and compacting.

And that's what I'm afraid of. Do you want me to answer the question, sir? Yeah. The simple fact is that you don't have a cap now. It's changing from the CPI to the trash CPI, which is more relevant. Sometimes the trash CPI is less than CPI. And then you're stabilizing rates for your customers. So now you have an indicia. It's trash CPI plus 1% for the duration of the contract. And that's what makes, you know, you don't have to come back in. And as the woman said before, they're asking for 5% a year for five years. That's 25%. We're not doing that. We're saying trust CPI plus one. That's it. And I think that that's a way that your staff is guaranteeing your customers rate stabilization. And I think it's good for the it's good for the city.

I don't agree, but I'm gonna move forward because that's gonna start affecting our residents. Five, four, four, five, six, 10 years down the line is gonna be a bigger margin, but we're gonna move forward. Question number 10. If the projected differential is expected to remain relatively modest, would Athens and staff be open to discussing a more balanced structure that includes reasonable annual caps? Like a 5% cap. Re-evaluate the automatic 1% on top because we're saying CPI trash, which we can argue many of the newer contracts, they're moving towards that because of these mandates that we have. I would like to see 5% cap and removing that 1% escalation. So I want to hear what.

No, we couldn't afford that in this package that we presented to the city. That would change the current thing to have a more significant residential increase, which you don't have now, and a more significant commercial increase.

Thank you. Can Athens provide a comparable residential and commercial rate data from similar sized neighborhoods, including those from Athens and those not from Athens cities, particularly those that implemented these three streams collection systems of SB 1383 related measures around the same time that we did in 2020, 2022? I know that there's other cities that you guys have already implemented this particular formula. But do you guys have any kind of comparables that I'm sure there's other cities that you had in 2020 that decided to say, hey, we're going to just do the three stream or we already have the three stream. Do you guys have any comparables of where those cities are at and we can compare and contrast?

Yes, and your staff has done that and we've done that over the past years. We've given the comparables to the city and you're in the meeting, you're in a good spot.

Yes, but I would like to see those numbers. Mark, is there a way to see those numbers if they have already provided those comparables? I think the residents should be able to see these numbers if they have already provided them. I have not personally provided them. So is this something that we could see?

We can provide you anything council asked for. The rates that cities charge are public documents, so we can get any city comparables that you'd like.

Thank you. Thank you. I would like to see that actually before making a sound decision so that because there's concerns about the different haulers having better prices and I want to make sure that our residents feel comfortable when we're making these decisions as well as top priority and make sure their business are stable too. Would Athens be willing to cooperate with additional independent technical review if the city determines further evaluation is necessary?

With that's currently in the contract, there's reviews and audits and all those things are in your current contract and they're in the Seventh Amendment.

I'm referring to like putting a hold today on this contract and saying, hey, possibly we're going to get some experts, a third party to come and evaluate if we're making the best decision, because I don't think that I'm sorry to say I don't think everybody's subject matter expert on every single particular item.

I would argue staff has done that, and we're not in a position to negotiate that over the days today.

Mark, have we done that already? Have we hired professionals to look at this contract? No, we have not. Thank you. just going to make it clear right here if athens i want to make sure this is the last question under the city's current 2020 sb 13 amendment agreement with athens if the city were to face any penalties fines enforcement actions related to diversion of sb 13 compliance who is ultimately responsible for these penalties? I know they will charge us. They will come down on us, but is Athens responsible to pay these fines under the current contract? And that will conclude my questions. If the city attorney can help, please.

Under the current two bin system, is that what you're asking? Oh, the contract that we have right now, yes. If the fine is the result of our decision on how we were providing service, then it would be difficult to impose that on Athens, I think.

Can you clarify that? Because my understanding is that we have a contract, we had a contract with them and they were supposed to meet the diversion requirements and now the state is verifying.

I guess the correct answer, the lawyerly answer and the correct one is it depends. And I guess it would depend on the nature of the fine and precisely For not meeting the diversion rates, to be specific. Yeah, the answer is depends.

It depends is very vague. I would like to know yes or no.

It's because there's a variety of ways that could come about, and I don't know the answer to that.

And we got audited today and they're like, we are not meeting, San Gabriel's not meeting the diversion requirements. What's going on? We gave you, we told you in 2020 that you need to meet this mandate. We told you that by 2025, we were supposed to be over 75% and you guys are not.

So in that hypothetical, is it revealed that Athens is doing something that's inconsistent with the contract or not? Well, if the state comes down... My point being, I don't know. It's an incomplete hypothetical, and I'm just going to have to say it depends right now, respectfully.

I respectfully would disagree and would say that we would need to look at this contract more, and I feel that they are responsible. They would be responsible at this point because we agreed with them, and they knew the mandate numbers back then, or else I'm sure we wouldn't have gone down this path. Okay, anyways... I yield back my time. If anybody else has more clarifying questions, I know we don't have that much time there. Thank you, Mr. Clifford.

So I just want to for the rest of council member because right now the council member just used for the clarify question. So I give it to the rest of council member. Do you have any clarify the question?

You know, I have 80 questions here.

Right down to eight. Okay.

No, that's okay. I mean, well, Gary, thank you so much for clarification. You know, I was scratching my head while we were talking things here, then I tried to Google that who did that bad things, which is called the Senator Ricardo Lara. So I was thinking that should we recall this guy, but he actually is now the commissioner of insurers in our state. You know, I truly appreciate that my colleagues that who is pretty served as the formal city manager of the Republic service. I'm sorry, the municipal manager. So perhaps that there'll be really better officials for any formal Athens representative run for an office in other city that is served by the Republic. No, I'm just kidding. That won't be happen to. But thank you, Mark, I mean, for negotiation with the Athens for the city. The first question I would like to address to Mark. Mark, if we do not comply with the state requirements, what would be the consequences? What is the cost for the city annually?

I will have to get back to you, Councilman Wu, with an exact answer, but they can levy fines of up to $10,000 per day for not being in compliance.

So if we will be comparing per day, which being said, that will be like $3 million a month. But it would all depend. No, I'm sorry, is that $300,000, right? So then compared with what we have increased, is that more or less? I'm really bad in math, good in budget, but bad in math. But actually, that's fine. I mean, 10,000 is a big number to me. But also, regarding the annual adjustment, that we are comparing with like a regular CPI, and now we are changing that to the trash CPI plus one. So when we talk about the CPI, that is in Los Angeles County region, but the trash CPI is only available for the US, it's a national average, is that correct?

Yes, the same indicia, it's just instead of LA Riverside, it's national, and it takes, yes. So it actually benefits better because it takes the Midwest and it kind of neutralizes the coast.

I see. So the average, I was doing some research and I understand sometimes the trash CPI will be higher, averagely will be higher than just the CPI. But some years they will be like lower. Correct. What is the reason that will be lower or what caused that higher for the trash CPI?

I am good at math. From what happens when they do regular CPI, it's a market basket of goods. It really has nothing to do with our industry or trash or anything. It's bread, milk, eggs. As you saw in COVID, the years around that, CPI was 8%, 9% and like that. Trash CPI stays median and it was probably 3% or 4% during those times. So it doesn't fluctuate like the commodities market and other things. It stays more stable and it looks to the things that the business does like tires, fuel and other things. And I think it also mitigates coming in and asking for other extraordinary increases that you may or may not need because it follows the industry, like the sewer person was telling you tonight. It mitigates the need for that ping pong effect of CPI.

So that would be the trash CPI, then plus one. Yes. So it's just like a primary, then plus one. Yes. Got it. And so that trash CPI is released by which department?

It's a Department of Labor. It's the same department, it's just a different indicia. So it's the same computer strokes, it just goes to a different area.

I see. Well, I just want to make that clarify because in the past, I think we had your former representative, Mr. Ed Chen, also your former representative, Becky Chen, and also John Harrington, who is our former mayor as well, that has given us the presentation regarding the SB 1383. So that's why that I've been following this issue closely with Mark and we have continued asking the questions about the update. But I understand there's no increase, I want to clarify that, there's no increase to our residential property. Correct. Okay. But for the commercial, because commercial property, some of the commercial property, they may have only single tenants. That is a freestanding building. So they will be paying their own trash bins. But for those property that has multi-tenants, they will be based on the triple net. So is there any cases how you charge, for example, on Valley Boulevard, we have so many shopping centers. Those trash bins, they could be collected like every two weeks or three weeks. No, I'm sorry, like twice a week or three times a week. It depends on how many trash they generated weekly. You mentioned that they are able to reduce, maybe just reduce from, what's that, three yard to two yards? Correct. So you will be sending someone to do it for them, or you were giving them some idea?

Yes, we will visit them, and as I have here, in your example, a current three yard bin twice per week, is $608.36. And the new rate would be 686.96. If they go to a one, two yard bundle, it goes down to 634. And we will visit them. We will introduce those new pieces of equipment. Your new rates have two yard bins, one and a half yard bins. They added that equipment to it so you can right size. And every one of your customers will be able to make that choice. to mitigate any potential increase by downsizing their trash container and upsizing their recycling and organics.

So let's say if the three yards trash bin you collect twice a week or like a two yard trash bin that you collect three times a week, which one is better or is the same?

It's the same capacity and because they're getting an extra barrel. So they don't, it would be the same, they just get picked up the same frequency, just a smaller trash.

Okay, so that means, and also I have read the staff report In the future, if there's any delinquent payments from any tenant, our city will be like, you know, collecting that funds from them instead of from you. Is that correct?

No, you won't be collecting. No, you're not in that business. We would come to you once a year and it would go on a tax roll where you just have to vote. It goes on the tax roll and then we get paid through the tax roll. So you will put a lien there?

Yeah, yes, in essence. I see. Let's say, for example, if there will be a shopping center come with like a 12 tenants and maybe six of them are restaurants so for those restaurant use are they paying more because the organic waste is now a new requirement but some of the other office like an attorney or accountant they may not really use that much and they may not really creating the big impact to this shopping center so is that up to the A PROPERTY OWNER TO DECIDE HOW THEY COLLECT THE TRIPLE NET. YES.

IT'S UP TO THE PROPERTY OWNER. THEY CAN ALSO GET A WAIVER. IF SOME OF THE CUSTOMERS DON'T HAVE ORGANIC WASTE, THEY CAN GET A WAIVER FOR THAT.

OH, OKAY. SO THAT WILL BE THEIR CHOICE. YES, IT'S THEIR CHOICE. I SEE. As a board member of LA County Sanitary, the Sanitation Board, that I realize that across the street from the office, the landfill, the Puente Hills landfill is now officially closed.

That is correct.

So we have been... uh discussing a lot of things about the landfills like in calabasas in you know many places they we have lawsuit we have all the different issues but what worries me a lot is about closing up those landfills so what what is the strategy i mean if in the future there will be more landfills to be closed does that mean that you will we will be facing the eighth or ninth amendment because the price could be increased. We have less land landfill that we can use.

That's one of the benefits of the Seventh Amendment. We guarantee you landfill capacity, and if we have our own landfill network system that we use, and it's not in LA County, and currently your waste goes to one of our material recovery facilities that I think you have visited, and we transfer that to a landfill that we operate, and you're not exposed, you weren't exposed to that during Puente Hills, you weren't exposed to that when Chiquita Landfill closed recently, and That would be, if we ever had to talk about that, that would be a meet and confer item. But you're protected by that in your current contracts.

When you say protected by the Seventh Amendment's contract here, that means the price will not be increased because we will need to go further for the landfill service.

With our current landfill use, that is correct.

So where is our landfill right now?

Right now, we use the San Bernardino County landfill system. San Bernardino. Yes. We operate that. Athens Services, we operate the Puente Hills MRF, and we also operate the San Bernardino County landfill system, and that was an agreement that you went in with us years ago.

So, let's say if the landfill will be closed up for any reasons, so you will need to rent a new landfill, or...

They have four landfills in that system, and they have 30 years plus of capacity.

So we don't have to worry at least in the next three decades.

That's my testimony to you, sir.

Okay. If we are able to reduce the trash. To me, I mean, this is, because if that will be sharing among the tenants, I mean, then usually it won't be really impact too much about the property owner, but it could be some slightly income impact the tenants, because whoever rent the space and, you know, operating the restaurant or anything, they could possibly increase their triple net. But it's still, I mean, triple net, that is including common area maintenance, the trash water insurance, and also property tax sometimes. So for that, it's more like a fixed, or that will be in the future, in the next few years, we will keep increasing, so both residential and commercial. and including the multifamily that will be based on the trash CPI plus one.

That is all, sir, yes.

Got it. And the last question I have, actually not last one, how many question I ask? I don't remember that. I didn't count. But for me, I mean, I've been asking the question while your staff was doing the presentation for introducing the SB 1383. For, especially I got a comment from one of our constituents that is a vice president from the Las Tunas Town Homes Homeowners Association. Regarding, they have a compliance challenges. I think that is not only for the residential, but it's especially for the apartment, for the, you know, those places, I mean, they probably have like a, let's say the townhome, they may have only two beans and they have like a structure they'll be feeding in. And every morning, like maybe twice a week, you will have a truck and tow it out. So how you can fit in with the organic waste things, because I know that you have tried last year and it doesn't work out. I mean, the bean looks like a newer, but people will fear because they don't know what is inside. It could be like a, organic waste, but that could be like a couple days ago. You know, people dump it, they don't know what is inside of the bag, and it could be like some liquid. And it could cause some like a rat, you know, a cockroach. So for the apartment in Homer's Especially those property that generate by the Homer Association They have concern about how we can enforce that the third beans. So what's your what's your solution here?

They meet with our staff and we work that out for them whether it's strategically making the trash small enough to fit the other barrels in the enclosure or they want us to make them a custom bin and where they can fit them within their enclosure, or they separate out, one enclosure will be for trash, another enclosure will be for the other. There's ways to mitigate that, and that's what our staff does, and that's part of the SB 1383 cost. The team that goes out and annually visits the customers to do those very audits.

I see. which means that there will take more time for Athens to educate them how to deal with the organic traffic.

It is our responsibility. We take that responsibility away from the city, and we indemnify from you, and we do that for you.

So if there's any, let's say the homeowner association, they complains, oh, you know what, our resident, they know this is something new, but they don't want to comply. So they still dump some trash, regular trash or some recycling, they don't really care about the beans because the bean for the community is more, like a general, it's like for any kind of trash inside. So, I mean, would that constitute the fines or penalties, either from city or from you?

Yeah, we will have to keep working and educating them. We still take it to our MRF and we still process it. We take all the good stuff out of it. But we will have to keep meeting with those customers and educating them until they do the right thing. And that's what this cost structure does. If they don't want to do the right thing and they don't want to comply, they'll pay more. If they do the right thing and they comply and recycle, they'll pay less. And it's that simple. And I think the state has figured out Southern California still has much lower trash rates in Northern California because of that very reason. And so I think they're going to catch up with each other soon. But the behavioral change is what really needs to happen in 1383. And that's what we take off the city's and we go work with the people to do that. And the HOA presidents and the HOA people and the multifamily people and the commercial people, once they meet with our team and look at their opportunities, it's been very positive.

I see. And I think last question I should address to Mark. So if we today, that we will have directions that say, that's conduct, the Proposition 218, that means that we will have our resident that receive some kind of notice and then they will have a chance to say yes or no i agree or i disagree is that correct yes um kind of two things i would need to clarify one it wouldn't go to every resident it would go to every rate payer

So it would be every single family home and then as you asked in a lot of your questions, if it's a single property owner who's the customer versus spreading that out to individual tenants. The individual tenants would not get a notice. It would only be the single property owner. Same thing with a condo or a multifamily. The other big distinction is this isn't a ballot that is a vote yes or no. It's what we call an exception ballot, which is that everybody gets a notice. And however many that is, let's just say for purposes of explanation, there are 10,000 rate payers in the city. 5,001 would have to return cards that are not accepting of that rate increase for it to be overturned. That's the premises of Prop 218. And Keith, I'm sure you have clarifying on top of that.

Yeah, it's not a ballot. It isn't an up-down election. Everybody gets noticed that they have the opportunity to object.

So that means this is more like opt-in, opt-out selection. They opt out from this.

Well, not exactly. They'll send us a notice of their objection, and then we'll have a hearing. And people who walk in can also object. and the clerk will count up the number of objections that we've received, including at the meeting. And then as Mark indicated, it would have to be more than half of the people that received the notice would have to object. If that happens, then we would not be able to adopt the rate. I see. So the percentage for the rejection rate is 50% or? It has to be more than 50% of the people who receive the notice. Okay.

Because usually this is property owner paying the utilities, including Athens Services. So, but the actual person who resides in that property will be the tenant. And Cedar St. Gabriel is having a tenants, is a city that was a tenant, more than 50% tenants occupied. So who is receiving that postcard or notice?

The notice has to go to the person who will be paying, who has been paying the bill. So that will be on the bill that whoever is paying that. Whoever that is gets the notice. It's not tied to property owner, even though it's a property-related fee. It's not tied to specific parcels in that way. The notice will say, and by the way, this is something I thought we should probably clarify since I'm talking. So I think if I understood what you were saying correctly, that currently everyone's got a black can and a blue can, and that when they get a blue and green can,

They have a black and a green and they're going to get a blue.

Okay. So when they get the blue can, they could reduce the size of the green and blue cans to be equal to the old green can? You guys have a green can?

It's simpler than that. The residential are going to get an extra blue barrel, so they're going to get extra capacity and they're not going to pay for that. we want them to put as much as they can in the blue barrel. The commercial customers are going to get a blue barrel also, or they can get a blue bin, whatever they want to get. That extra capacity they're getting because they have a bin, they have the opportunity to go all the way down to a trash barrel if they want, which is much cheaper. We just figured out them going down to the next level. So if you have a three-yard bin, and then you get an extra 96 gallon container, let's just call that a half a yard or a yard, then you can downsize your trash because you're gonna be taking stuff out of that mixed waste container and putting it into the dedicated container. You're gonna be putting more into the green and more into the blue, hence you don't need three yards capacity of that one container anymore. You could go to two or one and a half or whatever you find convenient. Because right now when you go into that thing, There's a bunch of undone boxes and bulky stuff in there that's taking up the room.

Okay. You're getting me off track a little bit. So the only point I wanted to make is that back to the 218 notice, one of the requirements is that you give notice to the ratepayer about the effect of the change on their bill.

Okay.

And so hearing that discussion got me thinking, all I wanted to say is that we should put some thought into how we're going to do that, given that there's sort of an expectation that people might resize their service, I guess. And so that needs to be, I'm used to doing this from the perspective of water rates and you don't resize your pipe.

Right, I think you did it kind of on the staff report. If you look at the staff report as a model, it'll help you understand how the Prop 218 notice could look too.

Yeah, I think we can improve it. Yes, I do too.

So for the Prop 218, we will do our public hearings here at our council meeting. Correct. Oh, OK. I see. So today is just giving an instructions moving forward to get a vote. I mean, not vote. I'm sorry. But that is more like to initiate the 218 process. Yes. Then they will still have a chance to make their decision. Correct. But when they will get that, I mean, before the public hearing, how many days or how many weeks before they will be getting that? I think it's 45 days notice, if I remember. 45 days notice.

Yeah, 45 days notice.

so when they receive a notice is there any phone numbers or any kind of content information they may reach out to athens or you know maybe cities they don't reach out to athens they don't they have to they have to give the information to the city clerk i guess or whoever we've designated to receive it i assume it's the city clerk right because i realized that today there are so many residents here They come here and they say, oh, worry about the rate is increased. But actually, that is not even the residential part. I just want to make sure that that information is clear and people will be receiving the correct information Sometimes that people would just post that online and say, oh, this is so horrible. But I understand that could be an impact too, especially for the commercial part, because those people, they are considering to increase their triple net share. So I understand that part. I just want to make sure that there will be somehow that when people, they receive those postcards, they know that where they can reach out to the right source to get the correct information.

I think that is, so yes. And just this year, the legislature introduced some new procedural regulations considerations for 218 hearings that will give additional process, I guess, for the public on this too. That's good.

So when would that be updated? So far we only need to give a direction that we will move forward.

So I guess with the process I think we're envisioning here, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that the contract would be approved tonight. At a subsequent meeting, we would then authorize sending out the 218 notice pursuant to the contract. Correct. And then we would have 45 days. We'd hold our hearing. If we don't receive a majority protest, then you would be expected then to approve the rates.

Correct.

Because we will have agreed through the contract to approve the rates at that point.

We have a website that will be special because we are sending out that information. Would that be like a triple net dot SB something 1318? So they will be able to access to that information and say, oh, City of St. Gabriel is now doing this and this is all the numbers.

There's certain statutory in the state constitution in Article 13, there are notice requirements in there that you have to comply with. But you are able to give additional notice in whatever form you guys elect to do that. Got it. Okay. Just understand, though, that you have to be careful to make sure. that whatever you do, it's clear to everybody that you're going to have this hearing, that they need to supply the protest in some form by the time of the hearing. And that that will be the process you'll be observing. You don't wanna create the impression that there's some other process that they could avail themselves of.

Okay, I see. So there will be still some procedure updates after tonight?

I guess I would say this would therefore be step one in the actions necessary to increase the rates.

So that's from Sacramento. It's not in our hand anyway.

Well, I wouldn't say that. If you approve the contract tonight... that you're agreeing to raise the rates provided that there's not a majority protest. So, you know, that, because at that point you'll have a contract. Right. I see.

Okay. I think that's all my 80 questions. Thank you.

Any questions that are finished? Okay, so Council Member Machenga.

Yes, I'm going to time myself too. I timed everybody else.

Okay, so I think we're all learning so much about trash.

it's exciting times here uh first of all i wanted to go back to 2020 just because i was there and that was the liaison and at the time we did talk about the three barrels because a lot of cities have three barrels but the cost was going to be significant and at the time we thought well if we can meet the 75 percent um if we can be at the 75 compliance rate then why would we want to add more barrels and put an additional burden to our city But then, as always, the state came in and said, well, the California law now is that, you know, it's much more demanding than it was in 2020. And if you want to be in compliance, then you have to do a three-bin model because they feel that the two-bin model, no one can meet the 75% compliance. And Clifford, or Gary, well, Mr. Clifford, Gary, I call you Gary. You have like two names, first names, it's confusing. So then we're now at this three bin model, but then This new California law is not being funded by them. They want us to do more, no monies. So what are they doing? They're asking the cities to fund it locally. So we're at that point. So now our customers or rate payers, or your customers, your rate payer, we've got to use a blue bin for recyclable, green bin for organic waste, and black bins for trash. And then we also have the fact that it's not going to affect the single family customers. So whatever has been taking place will continue to take place, but it's specifically for commercial and multifamily customers. They're the ones that are going to experience the rate increase. So my question to you is, What can Athens do to help those customers to mitigate the impact of 1383? You talked about right sizing. You talked about education. But I think that's the biggest concern here. Now that we clarify, it's not affecting single-family homes. It's the commercial and the multifamily customers. What else can we do for that particular cohort?

I think that the best thing that we can do is reach out to everybody, the tenants, everybody that are in those buildings, explain to them what the goal is and how to get there. And I think that the most important part of this and my experience and the company's experience has been that the people want to do the right thing. They want to recycle. They want to move forward. So what Athens can do is we could commit like we have. to taking the burden away from the city, because if the city had to hire all the people to do this, it'd be incredibly cumbersome. You'd have to hire 10 more Jeeps and 10 more employees, and you'd be introducing more people at a city event, and they'd be going out and doing the auditing and all that stuff, which is what we're going to do. I think it's really incumbent on Athens, not the city, to go out and educate the customers as we do annually and get them to understand the equipment changes and the behavioral changes. It's hard to do. I had to do it in my city. We went from two barrels to three barrels, and it was very difficult to do. What happens is, I'm not going to rat her out, but Mrs. Clifford refuses to do that work, so I have a barrel at the back door. She puts everything in it. And then once every couple of days, I go out there with gloves and I do all the separation and put them into the three barrels and I make her life easy. And so to keep the the compliance people away from me, I make sure I do that work for her. So we will take that model to all of your multifamily and all of your commercial customers and explain to them. And it'll be on the rate sheets, too. This will be part of the rate sheets. Here's what you currently have. Here's how that equates to the new And here's where you can be with that same capacity because you're getting an extra barrel. And let's just say you just in your model, you have an auto shop and you have a three yard bin. And now you're going to get a 96 gallon recycling container that's not going to go in the three yard bin. And now you're going to have organic capacity that's not going to go in the three yard bin. Why in the heck would you want to have a three-yard bin? Now, you wouldn't know that up front. You would just get the extra equipment and see the bill and go, oh, my gosh. We're going to beat them to it. And we're going to go out there and say, don't say, oh, my gosh. Say, oh, my golly. Look at what I can save. And that's what we do. That's what we're going to do. And that's what we can do. And that's our commitment to you and your customers.

So what you're saying is that if they change their behavior and right size, our commercial... and multifamily could actually decrease.

I want the numbers on the record so you know. Current rate $438.80. New rate advertised in the staff report, $502.37, that's a 14% impact. If you go from a three yard bundle to a two yard bundle, just going from three to two, you go to $431.59, which is 2% less than that. And if you take, this is something we haven't even discussed, but if you just take this year's annual increase that was supposed to happen out of it, it's a 7% reduction. Because you were getting a rate increase this year anyways.

So let me ask you something. When we go through the 218 voting process, because we've done this before, but if we do those notices, I call them ballot-like notices because people get confused. Is this part of the community outreach and education that you would do? Or is this what we do?

The Prop 218 is what you do. We certainly will work with the city to help with that.

We're going to send out the notice. We're going to approve it at the meeting that we consider sending out the notice at. And I guess what I'm hearing and what I'm suggesting is the notice is required to inform them what the effect of the change is on the rate payer. So we're gonna have to, and I know it says this in the staff report, but obviously we've all been confused by it, at least I have. So we're just gonna have to figure out a way to state it clearly that there are scenarios here, and one of them is that you end up I guess putting out the same volume of trash, right? Differently. In different size containers.

And it's the size of the bins. But it says here that, it says conduct a community outreach and education before the hearing so the rate payers understand the proposal and its potential impacts. Are we having meetings, community meetings? So we're explaining that in the notice? Is that what we're doing? Okay.

And we'll definitely want to have a presentation when we have the rate hearing. We'll definitely want a presentation where we walk through it.

I think that would be very helpful because there's just too much confusion. And again, I think we're all kind of We're not experts in any way, so I think explaining it would be helpful. The only thing I do know is that it's being mandated, and so we have to do it. We have to change to meet compliance, because if we stay with the two barrels, we're going to be starting to get hit with $10,000 or whatever that fine is.

Yeah, we're going to, I think legal and the public outreach people are going to have to sharpen their pencil and come up with a very good notice.

Well, that's why we pay you the big bucks. Okay, so then let me ask you a question. Is it true, because I saw that, I believe it was in the report, but also some social media, that the rate could change to as high as 60%? No. Yeah, it just didn't sound right, but it's in the staff report. How do we come up with the 60% mark?

That's if you don't look at the paragraph below it, and I think that's what your council's telling you about the Prop 218 notice, because what wasn't addressed as good as it could as the behavioral change required with it. So you're just saying we're going to give you extra capacity and we're not changing it. And that's not, that's like saying I'm going to buy an electric car, but I'm going to keep my gas car too, and I'm going to pay insurance and everything on it. That's not the way it works. So we just have to go to the next level.

It should be centered, in my view, it should be centered on the same volume of trash being put out. There you go. Because if it's like for like service, then it makes a big difference.

Yeah, we're adding a barrel. Here's what it looks like. You can downsize this one net-net. It's a minus 2% impact on your rate if you choose to do that. If you want to keep the status quo, then you're going to pay the increase.

Yeah, the big heads up is if you don't do anything, you will accidentally buy additional capacity beyond what you probably need. That's the big issue.

Okay, Mark?

I do want to make sure we're clear that everything you all have said is true, but those folks who have their organics waiver right now will get that increase no matter what. Now, if they're able to right-size their bins, it could go down from that, but those folks who are opting out will not get the opt-out anymore.

I do have that organic waiver, and I'll leave this with you if you want to use it for Prop 218.

I'm just trying to get through this, so let me just continue on. So regarding the CPI calculation, we're going from LA CPI to the trash CPI. Is this, plus one, is this part of the CalRecyclable guidance? I mean, are they coming up with the trash DPI?

No, that's an Athens thing that we've done typically to help stabilize your rates over a long period of time.

Because it's much more relevant than the general CPI. Okay. And then I know some cities, I was talking to a colleague that said even when they have caps in there, and it's not an Athens client, but when they have the cap that let's say it's 6% or it's above the 5%. In the contract, the way it reads is that that 1% difference gets pushed to the next month or the next year because it's so cyclical that you're not going to get this linear CPI every year. So even if it has a cap, it's kind of an artificial cap because they get to push it over to the following year.

You don't have a cap now. If you have a cap, you usually have a floor. So the cap will say 6%. The floor will say 4%. So you don't benefit from the dip anymore. And then you have a rollover feature that says anything over 6 will rollover into the next year. Yes, those are all part of that contractual language.

Okay. I just wanted to clarify. It's not just a cap or no cap. It's not a real cap. Okay. Let's see. Okay. Well, a lot of it's already been asked. So regarding the Prop 218 voting process, so we've talked about mailing the notices. So this is the way everybody will get to know this is happening. If you get these notices out, every single ratepayer, So it's not voters, it's rate payers who will get a notice and they will find out what's taking place. Is that true?

Yes, but... It's not a voting process.

Exactly. Really important for people to understand that. But at least the rate payer, the people who are being impacted will get a notice.

And they have to very specifically be informed about what's happening.

Yes. And we've talked about that. We're going to inform them. But I think it's important to... to clarify that it's the rate payers that are getting it. And if we want to communicate and abide by this 218 process, they will be getting the notice. Correct. The rate payers. And then we'll hold the public hearing where the property owners can provide comments. In this notice, we're going to have to educate and make it very clear. Then in 45 days after council reviews the results of the notices, And at that time, we'll have a full council. I have to remind everyone, we are missing someone here. So I think it's important to note that. But at least in 45 days, we have the results, we can have that discussion, and then we can vote if we need to on the proposed rates.

Yes. Okay.

Okay.

In other words, we will not have a majority protest and then pursuant to the 218 requirements, we can adopt the rates by vote.

Okay, so that's when we vote. Tonight, what we are, the staff recommendation is to move forward with the 218 process.

Yes, but we are also approving this contract that requires us to move forward with the rates once we get through the 218 process. So you'll be technically voting, but I will be sitting here telling you that you have committed to the rates.

Okay. And that's all for now. Thank you for, well, I'm sorry, one more thing. The negotiations, Mark, I mean, I know you said you're not an expert, but staffing yourself, you've been working on this for six months, a year, and trying to get, looking at comparables on trying to get the best deal. We didn't even talk about the benefits, but there are some benefits that we're getting here, aside from... WELL, IT'S THE BENEFITS, THE SIDE BENEFITS THAT WERE INCLUDED ON HERE ON FOOD RECOVERY AND THERE WERE SOME OTHER THINGS HERE.

FOOD RECOVERY, CITY EVENTS SUPPORT, THE BULKY ITEM HOT SPOTS, THERE'S QUITE A FEW EXTRAS THAT YOU'RE GETTING.

Can you talk a little bit more about that negotiation process? Because I feel like you and your staff have been very thoughtful and you made sure that this is the best that we can do based on your experience with our city and working with Athens extensively.

Thank you, Councilwoman, yes. I'm not an expert. I have been dealing with it for quite a long time. On this particular amendment, we've been working for about nine months. As Gary said, it was sometime late last year. I think I've had some, we had a presentation here at the council a few months ago about this. As far as the negotiations, it is not a typical negotiation process because we don't have all of the information with trade secrets, industry secrets. So there are ways that we can test what other cities are paying, but it isn't apples to apples. Every city is gonna have a different contract. what you just rightly named, the things like the bulky item pickup, the sponsorships, we have a $350,000 payment that has increased to over 400,000, so it is very difficult to compare apples to apples. There's a lot of trust involved, and what you're hearing from Mr. Clifford, today is what we have heard and there is a measure of we're in a partnership and we can only trust the folks that we're in a partnership with as much as we can. And so what we've brought to you is what I could, and Martin, Martin was key in this, Martin from Keith's office, have brought to you the best that we think we can do as staff If council, this is obviously a council decision, if council has other ideas and wants to go about this another way, you absolutely can. But from a staff perspective without having the council involved, this is the best we can do. I will tell you that we were able to negotiate out some provisions of the contract that they had in other cities that Martin and I asked some tough questions and we went back and forth several times on things. We don't think we were a pushover, and I don't think we've handed you something that we wouldn't be proud of, but if Council needs to look at this more deeply and thoughtfully, that's within your purview, but from a staff level, we've done everything we can to present what I think is the best deal we could get as staff.

That was all. I'll now pass it back to the Vice Mayor.

Thank you, Council Member Machanga. Okay, so that's my time. Okay. I have the... Actually, it's a lot of questions too, but most of you are already asking, okay? So... First of all, based on your current, say, single family, they don't need to pay extra. They still got the blue belt.

Correct.

If like your, it's also explained to the, for the business or multi-family, they can reduce their, like maybe green burial and black burial, they still can reduce and reduce their rate too or not?

They could reduce the black burial, that is correct, and change the rate that they currently have.

So actually, they probably save the money?

Yes.

It's possible, right?

It's probable.

It will happen. So it's probably how much they can save?

Well, I think I gave some examples. Could I submit this to the clerk so you guys could have it for the record? I won't have it anymore, but I'll give it to you so you can show him. It shows the, it could be of evidentiary value, and it shows the rate decreases at all the levels. There's one column that shows the rate with the current, thank you, with the current CPI. And then you have to kind of take that out, too, because that was going to happen anyways. And then the far right column shows it without that CPI in it. So as you look at the top one, my argument to you at the dais is that if you currently have a 131, you're going to get a blue barrel and you could reduce that three yard bin to a two yard bin and you could reduce your rate to $431.59, which is a 2% decrease overall and a 7% decrease if you don't take into account the CPI that you were going to get anyways. because we took these two rate increases and moved them into one, so you would only have one. And I think that's another significant negotiation point that your city attorney and city manager did. So my argument is if you follow the green and you do all those different levels of downsizing, the impact would be a negative 2%, a potential 3%, or a potential 4% increase. And that's if you just go to the next level. You could go farther down, and you could get a bigger decrease, and those rates are all on the rate sheet that you have with the amendments.

Yeah, I know, my question, it's not for the multifamily, it's not for the business, I'm just talking about the single family.

It's the same thing for multifamily. It's the same equipment and the same kind of downsizing, yes.

The percentage they can save, right? Yes. All right, so any council member want to take a look at this chart?

Okay.

that today. So I just realized because you guys are considering this document, we need to make copies of it available to the public upon request. Okay.

Yeah, you can. And it's also, it's in the rate sheet. All those rates are in the rate sheet that's in the, if you read the staff report, it's in the staff report and it's in the rate increases. That's just something I made up for my notes tonight. But yes.

So the city clerk will make a copy and then post it? OK. OK. So today, just the first question is, If we, for this item, if we don't approve it, so what's the consequence? I still want to continue to asking, is there any penalize for our city or your company?

We won't be able to indemnify you or keep you whole with your compliance for 1383 without going to the three-barrel system. That's why we're here tonight.

Why are you all asking questions? I know the staff, you were staff with a lot of the negotiating. It's already spent time, right? I respect all of your company and the staff, okay? But if we slow down the processing, what's the consequence for the city?

We won't be able to guarantee you compliance with the new 1383 laws.

So will we start from, like Mark say, every day will be $10,000?

As of January 1st, it could be. It could be. That's between you and CalRecycle.

You mean the next year, January? No, this year. This year? Yes. Back date?

Yes, we've been working with them because we've been telling them and you've been telling them that you're working on this contract and it's coming to you now.

Okay, so if we don't take any, right now, okay, if we, for example, just take this action, If when it's the way I know so they are back day to the from the January 1st until right now is a penalized. I the question I asking the Gary OK possibly that's potential. Yes, how about a city attorney and.

You're asking is is there a risk that we could be fine for this day?

Yes, yes, yes, that is the risk. That's the risk, right? OK. And another regarding the like pay a vote. So for each bill, the payer, they have the one vote or they like a multi-family, they have the more vote or just the one vote?

It goes to the rate payer. The rate payer has the vote. The rate payer has the Prop 218 notice compliance.

And they get one vote for every account they have. So if a property owner owns 10 buildings, they get one vote for each of those buildings that they own.

Maybe, I think 10 buildings, just maybe one building that have the maybe two or three barrel. So that's kind of three or just kind of one. Just kind of one. So each business owner, like probably one of the small product, just one vote? Yes. Okay. Okay, so even like each condominium, just one vote?

If the condominiums have their own address, they each get a vote.

You mean that each, for example, condominium have the 10 unit or some condominium just two unit? So how many vote they have?

It depends if the condominium, they have separate service. So if there's 10 units and they all have their own bill, then each unit gets its own vote. If for some reason it's done through one service, then it's one vote for whoever owns that service.

So most, I think the condominium just, just the one bill. So just one more, right? So if, if the town home, probably townhouse, they probably have the, each unit have the vote.

Yeah. The point is, and it's not really a vote, but yeah, the point is that the notice will go to the payer and the payer is the one who has the right to object. If the person's not paying, then they're not relevant to the, to this particular issue?

So let me make sure that I understand it correctly. So for example, on LIFOX, we have so many apartment. So apartment is only owned by either one LLC corporation or one owner. So that owner will be paying or receiving that mail because this is the landlord is paying then everything including the rent already. So I believe that is, you know, because they are all tenants, so that is, if there would be like 60 units in there, but none of them are paying the utility, including the Athens services, so only the owner will receive that. If I... In that hypothetical example, yes.

Okay.

But if for the condominium units, that is 16 or 20 units, but each are owned individually, then each tenant is paying their own water bills and their trash, then they will be the one. But if that is generated by, if that is operated by the homeowner association, so homeowner association will be getting the bill and getting the notice. That is what my understanding.

Is that okay?

That sounds right. That sounds right. Again, whoever gets the bill is the one who gets the right to object.

Okay.

Or whoever pays the bill is the one who gets the right to object. Okay.

And the next question, I hear, but I try to clarify. So, say, total we have, how many the bill for our whole city? It's like 10,000?

Yeah, approximately.

10,000? Yeah. If I just want to clarify, 50%, it's... It's all the return the ballot, it's a 50%, the whatever the against or the agree, or it's have to like 10,000, you have to... like 5,000 or one to agree.

So that's the way it's going to work. So we're going to get to the hearing, and we will have a very precise number as to how many of these notices went out, whatever that number is. Let's say it's 10,000 on the dot. So you sent out a 10,000?

We got 10,000 out there.

OK. So now we know that the threshold of the number of objections is 5,001 in that example, right? So what will happen is we'll be getting these all the way up until the time where we're ready to vote. So people will be talking. Maybe people will walk in and hand them to us all the way up until we close it. Once we close it, we're gonna take a little break and Sharon will go count the ones that we've got and we'll have the count of the ones we received in the days prior. And then, and we're gonna have us, you know, you'll say, or Eric will say, you know, Madam Clerk, please give us a report on the number that we've received. And she'll say, we've received 3,621, you know, objections. That is short of the number, if this is what happens, that is short of the 5,001 necessary to prevent this from occurring. The city council is now free to move forward and something of that effect. And then that's it. Then you bring it back to you guys and then you guys talk about it and vote. So you'll have the number. We just don't know what it is because it's whatever that precise number is. We don't know what it is. I don't know what it is. Okay.

So if the, I mean, another resident, it should appear, accurate number maybe whatever that you send out the notice the fifty percent the objection is come back so that's the objection too yes so actually you're talking about objection it's a it's ugly it's a if they they they both agree they they they still need a mail back to or they don't need it so actually it's let the order appear When we send out a notice, let them beware if you don't like the whatever, the contract.

Yeah, that's the purpose of the notice. So the notice will say in it very clearly, here's what we're doing, here's what the effect is on you. If you don't like it, then you need to send us a notice. You need to send a notice to so-and-so by such-and-such a date. Okay. and you can also show up and object at the meeting if you want.

Yeah, I know that a lot of the PA or resident, they sometimes say, hey, I didn't receive the notice, so... They have the future. I just want to find out a future complaint if they say, hey, why I didn't receive it if I know it.

The state constitution describes how we have to send this out. Okay. So we will follow that process. All the stuff I'm talking about, it's in the constitution. We can't change it. We can add extra stuff if you want, but we can't take, you know, what's in there is what's in there. Okay.

so this is what the process they decided uh should exist for water rates and and sanitation and sewer okay so another question so how how how many the commercial uh and the multi uh family unit the customer you have How many?

Yeah. The number's around 700, 750. 700, 750? Yeah, I don't have the number at the top of my head, but it's around that number. I have to look it up.

That's another question. So even just all the rest that the business person, if it's objective, still have the two objectives, right?

I thought that's what you were going to ask me. So it is one proposal, so it would be all of the customers, and it would have to be a majority of all of the customers not separated out by class. So there's not separate votes by class or separate votes by service.

Okay. I just want to clarify that. Okay. Okay. Okay. And another, I think, public comment is regarding the contract. Is it true it's a contract from seven years to the 27 years? We're not changing the term of the contract, sir, at all.

So are you asking how does the contract term work? So it is a 25-year agreement, as I recall. Mm-hmm. And it's an evergreen contract, so it automatically extends every year. So in other words, it's always 25 years from now before it ends. So you may say, well, how does that ever end? And the answer is there is a – and by the way, they pay a fee to extend it every year. So that's that $350K that you hear. That's the payment to extend it for the next year. There is a process. If you want to terminate the contract, there is a process, but it is – so – As I understand it, and the way it's always been expressed to me by the waste haulers is that, you know, mobilizing up and down for solid waste is a big enterprise. You can't do it on a drop of a hat. So there is a significant notice requirement for initiating the process of terminating the contract. I think you have to give in this case, I think it's notice at the beginning of the year and it's set up so that by the end of the year, the contract will terminate. And during that year, you have to meet and confer to resolve whatever your disputes are, and there's some other requirements. So it's not a snap your fingers, it goes away thing, but you do have the ability to start a process that will eventually terminate the contract if that's what you guys elect to do at some point.

So that's me, the contract, every going, the contract, like every year, it's renewed like 25 years, from my understanding, back to the 2020. But council member still have the, like a right to vote it to terminate the contract. and have the process.

Yeah, yeah. Like I said, there is a process to end the contract, but that process itself takes like a year to do. By the way, I'd like to do legal services on the same basis if you consider that. Okay.

So why I want to clarify, it's not a really logging like this or whatever, say seven year or 27 years, right? So still, for the cities, do you have flexible to terminate the contract? As it goes through the processing, right?

Yeah, I mean, you always, you have the option to start the process to terminate it, yes. Okay. If you don't do anything, it continues. Yeah.

Okay. Yeah. I understand. So, okay. Go ahead.

I'm sorry to interrupt. I just want to make sure it's clear. Once you go through that year process that Keith has mentioned, then the contract starts counting down from there. So 25 years afterwards, it can be canceled. So 24, 23, 22, 21.

Then can cancel it.

25 years from that point where we go through the noticing process and agree to it. So yes, you have the flexibility to vote on that at any time following the terms of the contract. And Keith is right. There are provisions for that. But it wouldn't take effect until 25 years.

Okay. So not right away. Just start from that point. to another 24 years.

That's right. San Marino had a shorter contract when they started that process, and it was not an evergreen contract.

Okay. Which means that if we just tell Gary Adios and we terminate today, then we will be officially terminate when I'm 76.

Yeah.

So I guess that is a better mask for him.

I also just want to know if there's several benefits to the city. I know it's not that amusing to me, but there's several benefits to the city with street sweeping and other things that the city benefits from as a result of that long-term contract also, including rates and stability.

Is that right? I'm sorry. If you finish, Vice Mayor. Yeah. Remember that we have that service is $80,000 or something? Yes. For the street sweeping? Yes. Okay.

IT'S A HIGHLY REDUCED RATE.

SO NOW IT'S LIKE, IS THAT FREE OR SOMETHING?

YEAH, IT'S INCORPORATED AS FAR AS THE TRASH CONTRACT. THAT'S CORRECT. SO THAT'S INCLUDED.

YES. OKAY. GOT IT.

THANK YOU. I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE HAVE THAT. OKAY. YEAH. ANOTHER QUESTION, I THINK COUNCIL MEMBER WU ALREADY ASKING REGARDING THE for the way the market mentions maybe 10,000 a day right it's a monthly maybe 300,000 so if potential for the for the business owner or multi-use the the complex so if based on the current rate the adjustment so probably they monthly how much they increase

If you have a three-yard bin and you don't do anything, it could go up 14%. If you have a three-yard bin and you exchange that trash bin for the same equivalence of getting the extra barrel, because you're getting an extra barrel, and you reduce that 3-yard bin to a 2-yard bin, you get a 2% reduction in your rate. So your rate will go from today's rate of $438.80, it will go down to $431.59. If you take advantage of the blue barrel that you're going to get and go to a 2-yard bin instead of a 3-yard bin. So you're going to save 2%. You're not going to go up 14%.

Yeah, I understand it. But I just want to like approximate, estimate if a total like based on your say that like 700, the business.

I would estimate that I do have that number. I would estimate that 75% of your customers without even doing much work are going to be able to downsize if they choose to.

Okay. Which is a big number. Yeah, I mean, like, how much the extra... Totally, for your...

company have the because increase rate you you want the more revenue too right so total estimate based on the business you total revenue you you can get the revenue switches if you don't take it to the landfill and you recycle it then it's beneficial because you're not disposing of it at a high rate you're disposing of it at a much lesser rate because of the recycling value So the idea is if you take that one extra cubic yard out of the trash and you don't have to pay $100 a ton to throw it out, maybe you pay $40 a ton to process it for recycling, then that's beneficial. That's why the rate doesn't have to go up. So the more participation you get with the recycling, the better it is, which is why if you don't do anything, then it goes up.

Sorry, I still did not express my question. So, for example, we got a penalty like 300,000, but for your revenue, maybe just estimate also near to the 300,000 or maybe less than 300,000. So that's like I want to like the payer to understand it. So it's a good contract for all of us. So that's I want to see the number.

Yeah, your staff has the ability to do that.

Okay. Is there any roughly to answer my question?

Maybe I'm misunderstanding what Gary is asking, but we don't know what Athens revenue is going to be. That is one of those numbers that is a business secret or a trade secret. It also is going to be dependent on how many of those customers downsize. I just want to ballpark.

I don't need a more accurate I actually think that if all of your customers comply to this, our revenue may increase, but our profits will go down because the revenue is going to increase, obviously, because you may be getting some more money. But the profit margin is probably going to go down because they are downsizing themselves. I mean, that's obvious that we can do that. But I'm willing to share the numbers of revenue, though those are easy numbers that we sit and talk with staff about. And then once this is in place, you can see that same thing as a result of the downsizing or upsizing. Okay. That's an easy thing to do with staff. Okay.

Well, Vice Mayor. Maybe. I guess that, I don't know if that is correct, but I guess because, for example, SCE, the Southern California, they charge different electricity rates based on the time that you use. Athens is charging the service based on the use of the correct beans. I think this is maybe an easier way to say it.

Okay.

Because they offer different options. Correct. Is that the right way to say that? Because they can choose the different beans. Yes. More beans to organic waste, that means less beans they will be using for, they get smaller, get smaller and get cheaper.

Yes. Mm-hmm.

I just use my, your category too. Yeah, so, sorry, I'm the engineer person, so it's a lot of number, you know. But I just want to try help the public and us to understand it too, you know.

While you're working on your numbers, in addition to this, part of what we do is we have town hall meetings, too, with customers where we will sit down and invite the public to come and talk through these issues, too, to help them out. So we've been very transparent in this process. It's come before council several times. Tonight was just to move it forward to the Prop 218 hearing to adopt the contract and then go through that process. But I think that we're going to put a lot of work into the public outreach. And if that includes a couple of town hall meetings, we do that too.

Okay. If we right now, it's actually today's decision. So we want to put on this decision. It's through our council member or let the payer to make a decision, right?

Yes, please make a decision. I would ask you to please make a motion and move it forward tonight, and then you can vote on it again when it comes before you.