Common Council - Regular Meeting

Steve Williams here. Max Gamble absent. Telicia Day here. Greg Zinc present. Chuck Williams here. Tom Jacobs here. Scott Nail is absent. And I'm Anthony Ciphers. First thing on the agenda is the minutes approval of the April 27th meeting.

There's no discussion. I'll make a motion to pass the minutes of the April 27th, 2026. So motion's made and seconded. All in favor? I. Those opposed. Next on the agenda is to review the permits issued for April of 2026.

I move to acceptance as presented. I'll second that motion. Motion's made and seconded to acknowledge the permits issued in April of 2026. All in favor? I. Those opposed. All right. Next on the agenda is a public hearing um for a petition for deviation for Vantage Built Homes. Um before we get started, if our attorney would like to sort of give us the background on this and what we're looking at today.

Yes. So, this is a petition to split uh one parcel into five parcels. Let me give you the acreage of the parcel to issue. doesn't appear to be generally available here online. Um I'm the applicant probably has that information. Uh but in any event, this is on Small Street. Um this is a public hearing item. Uh one question and it may be for um for Ronnie here. This is coming in as a petition for deviation um under the subdivision code. I guess why is it coming in as that rather than a plat?

Okay. Okay. And the applicant may have that information as well. Okay, that's fine. Um, so essentially, yeah, I mean, it's just it's going to be some we'll be treating this as essentially a petition to subdivide the uh the one parcel into five parcels. Um and with that we can invite the applicant up to uh present the petition and following that uh you may answer you ask questions for for him to answer and then uh once that portion's concluded we'll invite up public commenters to uh provide comment and once that's concluded um the applicant will have the ability to rebut any of those comments.

If you don't mind before you start just your name and address. Sure. My name is LincolnRum and I am a representative of ABH and my address is 280 Main Cross Street, Charles Town, Indiana 4711. Thank you.

My name is like I said Lincoln. I have been in the real estate development, building sales business my whole entire life. I started I got my real estate license in 1988 and have spent my whole career doing every function of real estate there is. Where I've landed in my career now is working with some developers and home builders that are building homes in southern Indiana. And they've asked me to be a part of the project and make sure that we just run through the systems, do exactly as we say we promise that we're going to do. um talk about what the project is briefly and then put the product in and uh build it and create a tax base in our community and affordable housing for um your current people that do live in this uh area as well as moving into the area. I know by experience with new construction and new homes, if you don't have a lot of production subdivisions, those uh are real um good. Uh they're really appealing in a small um area where there are smaller lots, but you infill and you build on the infill and you create value from a a lot that doesn't have a whole lot of value to a 200 $250,000 tax base. And that's really the bulk of what we're doing is infill lots, not just here in Salem, but in other markets that allow us to go in and build a home. What we are doing is we're using a manufactured product that is from Champion Homes out of Topeka, Indiana. It is a designed and engineered home that's built. They build the floors and the walls and the truss system in a factory just like trusses and other floors and walls are bu built in factories all over the country, but they're built in a factory and then they

ship those uh panels to the area. A crane comes in and picks it up and places them on a poured foundation. We're working with Kin Temple to do the foundation and the groundwork to make sure all of that is right. and they come in and they set them up and within two weeks um the home is ready to go and for sale. Everything is in there. It's all complete. It was built in a controlled secure environment. And um the thing that I like about them is they put a drywall firewall down that separates the sections when they come in. And they have become really popular because it reduces the time of construction by it's about an eighth as a traditional. It is not a trailer. There's no title to it. It is fixed into a or onto a foundation that is either block or poured walls. These will most likely be a poured wall foundation.

Considered a mo a modular home. It's it's it's not considered a modular. Okay. What's the only um the difference is this is the same as a traditional the way these are built is the same as a traditional stick built home. It's just they built it in pieces in the factory, not on the not on the site. Isn't that the same as a modular? Um it's it's technically not the same as a modular. Um, I believe in I may be speaking out of my total area of expertise, but I think there's something to the extent that these types of homes are built to HUD specifications. Um,

they they qualify for conventional financing, any type of uh farmers home or any types of incentive uh financing, they qualify for that. It's a great product. I'm going to the factory in two or three weeks. Um, and so we are uh looking at building it on uh this parcel and uh this lady who I was talking to, she lives right here. Um, upon my recommendation as well as Josh and Mr. Temple, we decided that our best bet is to start up where there's a buffer and start at lot one and two, which is there at Harrison and Small U where the cemetery is right there. And so instead of coming and crowding here in the beginning, um we'll start up there at the uh first two lots to put the first two houses in. And if we get our approval, then they would go in during the months of July and August and be on the market and for sale late summer.

Just real quick, I do have a question. Greg, you probably know better than I do. About twothirds of the homes over there by the high school, weren't they built like that? No, because I know a lot of them were built out of the uh rubber yard that used to be street that my parents. They they built everything right there in that rubber yard and shipped it. Well, it it's similar to what he's done.

The company that this Champion Company, they they build all kinds of different products. They build real popular like the Granny Pods. what they call them granny pods or nest that they put that's a real tiny micro house. They are in they are in the affordable housing business and Salem Indiana is a affordable housing market where we need as much bang for the buck and the reason why I jumped on board is because the way it is manufactured it's not a trailer it's not trash the developers that we're doing this with um from Mr. Temple to um Josh Hillman. They absolutely understand the way the way uh the land works and the way the homes will be built on there. I'm excited about it. I think it's a good project and I think it's affordable housing. We'll do the first two and hopefully continue with a couple more, but if we do the first two and it doesn't work, then we're not going to waste anybody's time and do anymore. But I checked the sales of houses priced $200 to $250,000 in Salem and they all sell quick days on market. So it's an affordable product.

What's your anticipated asking price? Two somewhere in the 2299 to 2349. Okay. Square square footage about 1350 ft. Three bed, two bath, front porch on the front and uh bedrooms down the side, living room, kitchen in the back. It's a 12 x 14 patio on the back. So, it's a shotgun style pretty much shotgun. Yeah, it's a 20 uh 27 by 52. Okay. Yeah. A little wider construction like 2x4.

Oh, yeah. 2x4 construction. That's something I wanted to share. All interior walls 2x4. All exterior walls are 2x6. Um all penetrations through ceiling and floor uh to be fire stopped and uh it gets state stamped from the state engineers office and Mr. Temple will have full plans on everything that we build and you know we'll we'll file that accordingly with you all. Any other questions? They set on a permanent foundation or

Oh yeah, it's a poured poured wall foundation. They they are on a crawl space. I like this. I've sold thousands of homes. I've sold a lot of uh slab homes and sometimes if you need to fix something or get to something and it's buried in concrete, you don't get to it. These are all it's all manufactured in the factory. So, you've got all your plumbing, you've got all your electric uh that's there in the floors already. So, it is on a crawl space and the crawl space isn't just dirt that's dug up. There's a there's a barrier there and a vapor barrier and every single thing we need to make sure that it's nice and tidy. Okay. Thank you all. Thank you. I enjoyed the drive up here. I don't know how much I'm going to enjoy the drive back. This rain is crazy.

Thank you. Thank you. Now, I want to know what kind of dirt I'm going to get. I live in that house down below and I want to know what kind of dirt, mud, rain is coming on me. For public comment, can you approach the podium, state your name and address for the record.

Helen Baker, 403 South Posey Street, Salem, Indiana 47167. I want to know what kind of dirt I'm going to get. I want to know if they're going to put barriers up, if they're going to stop it, or do I need to get a lawyer? Well, I have a question for Ronnie. It's my understanding that any construction has requirements as to, you know, like containment and everything and that would be just part of the part of the general practice that would have their containment. And if I start getting stuff, who do I contact? The guy behind you.

Don't worry, you'll get it. I already had had problems when they cleared that property. I had to go up there and make them put barriers in to keep the trash off my property. And I'm not happy with this. Is that the same as what's below us? That trailer down below us. That's a two That's two part. Which one? But I'll be more up. I saw King and Posie. King Posey. 406 Posey. I'm pretty sure he's not the one who built it. Yeah, I know. I didn't build it because I looked cuz that's a ten can

and I've lived in ten cans and they're not nice. They deteriorate and they bring your property values down. I'm familiar with the type of homes he's talking about building and stuff and these when you're done when they're done built you would think that it's a regular stick built house. It's designed exactly like Yeah. It's a ten can. It's not a trailer. It's not a trailer. It's not a trailer. It's a That's a duplex. That's below us. It's a duplex. These are not just

They better be. All right. Next up for questions. Ronnie, one question I had that I should have probably brought up before um was as far as lot size. So, we're we're looking at this proposed subdivision of this lot. Given the size of these homes, have you seen does the drawing show the footprint at all? Is it going to comply with all setback requirements? Can I answer that? Sure. Um if you can I show you this?

Yeah. If you see you you've got a 27 foot wide house, but you've got a 47 almost 50 47 foot wide um lot and you got 10 foot setbacks on both sides. So you'll have 10 foot there and then 10 foot there. You have 20 feet between both houses um of their exterior walls. And then whatever the setback is, I know uh Josh and I worked with Ken on getting this laid out, but whatever the setbacks for the front setback would be is what those would be. Front set backs 30 ft. Okay. So, probably not far off from how the illustration shows. Yeah. Okay. Real quick, while you have that.

Oh, sure. What? This looks a little different on lot four. Well, this isn't I think this was uh maybe what was there at one time. Okay. That's not me. That's That's not any of these homes. Okay. So, okay. I think their main focus was these two on we get these started and get them built, see if they sell and then proceed. Okay. You see why I asked the question that

Ronnie Ronnie do the plans as presented, they meet all city requirements? Yeah. So everything as presented is in full compliance. Oh yes. So lot size is good to go. Um lot size the minimum standards.

Um I just a couple quick things on the rebuttal and I I totally understand. I can tell you these are not ten cans. That's not a ten can mobile home. That's not what we're talking about. If it was, I'd tell you that you look up Champion Homes and this product of what we're building. It's not that. I promise you. And the good news is I'm going to be there during the whole process. So, you step on up. I'll be there. I mean, the white duplex. I'm sorry. It's duplex. Go us.

I'm not I don't know what that is. I'm I'm just talking about the single family homes that we're building. Same as a six style, just built in a factory. exact same thing just built in a factory. And uh we are here to increase property values and base for the county. As far as the dirt goes, that's a great question. I would have that question if I lived down the hill from there and when I was in Mr. Temple's office last week for at least an hour, I'm like, here's the deal. If we have these homes and we've got a stairst step, I'm not an engineer, but I'm smart enough to know what rolls downhill. So I said, as we do that, we have to stair step it and we have to make sure that we protect and keep the dirt where it's placed so it doesn't go anywhere else. That's top priority. Cuz you want to know why that's top priority? Oh, yeah.

Because well, somebody come back and sue us if we don't do that correctly. Well, I'm not an attorney. I'm not here to fight anybody lawsuit. I'm just here to help build some All right. All right. So that's if I answered their questions. I hope I answered your questions, answered you. I I'm more than glad to answer anything else. But I have just from from the procedural standpoint, I have a couple of questions. So in the application, there's the kind of overlay that you've shown with the proposed lot arrangement, the dimensions, and it's just it's overlaid on an aerial.

Okay. Do you have a like a plat prepared that you intend to record to affectuate the subdivision or the split? Well, I guess that would depend on what you all say needs to be filed if it needs to be a plat or preliminary plat for approval or um we're here to provide whatever you need and and if it says that you need this, I mean, Mr. Hillman does this for a living. So, we'll Ronnie may have a Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Okay. That That's fine. Yeah. Are you planning on putting up four houses or five houses in this property?

Um I don't know if I can answer that question yet because I don't think we can answer that until we at least get our first two up. I think the maximum that it would be would um be five, but it could be four. It just depends on how it goes, how how that land lays. You know, we might get the first two done and see that the dirt's not going to work. There no sense in proceeding and doing that. That's going to create a long-term liability for anybody. So, we'll make that decision then. Okay.

So, infrastructure wise, we're good to go. Um the the real question I've got and you you answered some of it for me the other day. Uh small street is exactly that. It's a very small street. What uh what are we going to do? We're going to do a lot of work on small street. We're widen it out. There's a big on shaved off and that'll help this process be erosion. So, is is there going to be parking here? Where is sewer going to be? Yeah, the front entrance parking.

No gas may water and electric.

Does anyone else have any questions? I did. Great. Thank you all. Appreciate your time. So, we talked about the erosion control. We talked about stuff. Oh, um even uh and I'm just thinking about I think Greg asked it. The parking. Is there going to be parking along the street? Is it no parking? Okay. Off street only. Off street only. But I guess people come and visit or are they going to park on the street? Should be enough room

and and still get ambulances that wider going to be more of a city street style roadide. Okay.

Might have changed the name. And I think as well relevant relevant procedurally the the question really it it issue here is about the split and not necessarily about the proposed use. I mean that's that's relevant context but it's not the operative um underlying facts that you need to evaluate with the split. That would be more of dimensions location you know the things set forth in the subdivision control ordinance. Okay. It's not an approval for the use. In other words, just for the subdivision of the land,

the zoning is remaining the same. So, what what's permitted in R1 will remain permitted for this property before and after this this split that's being proposed. All right. So, procedurally, what is our next step? Do we need to close the hearing and then have a formal vote or what do we need to do procedurally? It it would be a a motion to either approve or to reject the proposal and then a second and then a vote. I'll make a motion to approve the split of the plant. I'll second that motion.

All right. Motion's been made and seconded to approve the subdivision. All in favor? I. Those opposed? All right, the subdivision, the petition for deviation has been granted for the subdivision. All right, that closes the public hearing. I don't We don't need a motion to close the public hearing, do we? No. Um, next on the agenda is new business. Um, Ronnie, what new business do you have for us? I really don't have any new business. kind of start.

Um, does anyone up here have any new business for us to discuss or to bring up? I've got a question. Sure. Question.

So, there's communities all over the country get turned inside out and upside down because of data centers being being built and the impact the data centers have on communities. Now, I know we can do nothing and then whatever is on the books is what we have to react to if anything ever comes within our jurisdiction or we can be on the front side of it and have things set in place to protect the community before somebody ever even thought about entertaining the general area. What what do we think about or do we even worry about?

Well, that's really a legislative question and not a legal question. Um I mean there are ways that you can regulate data center uses similar to numerous other uses through your zoning ordinance. Um but whether and to the extent that you do that is really a legislative consideration. Um so city council for the councils correct.

Um now that's not to say that the plan commission doesn't have a voice in that with any um any amendment to or replacement of the zoning ordinance with any updated version. Um you know it the plan commission's a necessary player in that to review it provide comment you know give it a favorable or unfavorable recommendation to to the council. But ultimately in making a decision how you're going to regulate that that's going to be a decision for the council to make.

Okay. So there is is part of where I'm confused. I've been reading through and trying to understand you know what's what's the responsibilities of a of a plan commission and an appeal commission and city commissions and so on and so on and so on. And as I'm reading through the the state laws and I don't claim to understand twothirds of what I'm reading. As I'm reading through there, the origin of what we're discussing right now actually starts right here. We're the ones that are supposed to pull all of this together and get it ironed out and get it taken care of so that it can be presented to the city council and not the other way around. either the plan commission or the council can originate proposing zoning changes or amendments or revisions to the zoning ordinance. It it then just kicks off a process. But I guess the point that I'm trying to make is, you know, it's going to come down to getting a formal revision, amendment, new zoning ordinance, whatever that is in place and having a hearing on it. Plant commission would be conducting that, would be making a recommendation on to the council. But when I'm saying when it comes to actually regulating those things,

the plan commission can only enforce the zoning ordinance that's in place and only the council can adopt an ordinance, right? No, I don't disagree, but I guess where I'm asking is if we feel like we need to start a process, and I'm not saying we do, I'm just I'm asking questions. If we feel like we need to do something, is it not our responsibility to start that process, to pull all the information together and then to present that to the city council to then work from you could do that.

Again, I'm just trying to look at the state laws as to what what do the state laws say is whose responsibility to do what? So, I'm just I'm trying to be proactive in a discussion instead of reactive because I figured out pretty quick in just a few months that I've been on here. Unless it's on a piece of paper, I can't do a thing with it. All I have to do is say, "Yep, it complied and it keeps going." I guess I was misunder understanding your question as to whether you were asking about whether you should do it from a you know subjective standpoint of should or shouldn't you versus what the procedure is to to do something if you're intending to do something.

I'm asking all the above basically I'm asking all the above. Well on the subjective I can't you know give I can't opine on what you should or shouldn't do from a governance standpoint. Yeah. No and I understand that component of it. So, okay. It's just a bug that I want to plant in everybody's ear. Um, I don't know. There's the the state of Indiana has multiple lawsuits going on right now from uh from small communities just like ours trying to stop data centers. And as I understand the law, unless it's already written and in place and approved, there's really not much you can do to stop them.

Yeah. I mean, any anyone that's a petitioner for a specific use would come in and they would be navigating how to approve what they want to do within the confines of what ordinance is in place right now. Currently, yes. Okay. Just a question. Like I said, I just wanted to plant a bug in your guys and lady in your ears and uh and just something to think on because just kind of rolls around in the back of my my head. Mayor, did you have something?

Uh, Commissioner, I'll set shed some light on that. Um, change gears. Um, as president of the economic growth partnership, that's right where you're asking, Steve. So, as of today, no, we are not actively cultivating or recruiting a data center for some of the reasons you just said.

Yeah. Um I1 is the zoning you would put a data center in. We only have two tracks of ground in your jurisdiction that an I1 applies to. One of them is not um lending any sort of available land, but the other one does. So the sole piece of ground that's an I1 that has two mile friend jurisdiction does not have the utility capability of serving a data center. So by default, we're a little bit okay. And by a little bit, you're right, Steve, that that is not set in stone today. Uh as we develop and we keep going for uh other economic development improvements, we're going to see more of a backbone built u by our provider at Jackson County Rural Electric. Today, we can't supply one. Uh data centers are also twofold in their consumption from uh the utility. Not just the electric,

but water consumption. Yeah, half will do strictly clean water and the other half will do reclamation. Now, the reclamation we can probably look at. I have no problem with that. As uh owner of the utility, we could look at some of those projects if by chance the utility requirements came way down. They're not showing that. And and you you rais a very good point and that that is uh a concern not only from the Washington County Economic Growth Partnership, but as mayor. Uh, hey, if we can't do this right, we're not going to be in it at all. But right now, our utility partner says, "Don't even bring us a project because we can't bring you juice." Not going to happen.

Appreciate it. Thank you. That was quick on that conversation. All right, let's move on to old business.

Jake, you might want to give them a little update on the two houses. Oh, yes. So, we had a public hearing in here last month, I believe it was, on two that um were we were requesting demolition. Um those orders were affirmed in this body. Um the the period of time that we had given them to comply had lapsed. Um, so we were providing them the requisite statutory notice of the city's intention to go out and cause those properties to be demolished. And Ronnie may have an update as the status of that.

What we're doing now is the title searches. Yep. Okay. Okay. Perfect. All right. All right. Anyone else? Any old business you'd like to address? If not, I would entertain a motion to adjurnn. So moved. All right. Did he make that? I'll second that. All right. Motion being seconded to adjourn. All in favor? I. Those opposed. All right. Meeting adjourned.