Planning & Zoning Commission - Regular Meeting

All righty. Everybody, welcome to the City of Saginaw Planning and Zoning Commission meeting. I am going to bring this meeting to start at 6.04 PM. And we're going to do a roll call to establish quorum. Miss Vivian Anderson, place one.

Present.

Benjamin Guttery, place two, present. Mr. Peter Drolet, place three. Present. Place four is currently vacant. Mr. Valvisas, place five. Present. John Hardy, first alternate. all right show that he is not here and uh miss rebecca errington second alternate all right welcome all righty we do have a quorum uh then i'm gonna do open it up to audience participation at 6 0 5 p.m and note um anyone that's here for a particular item We'll also have individual times to speak before your item as well. But if anybody just wants to speak in general, you can also come up. Then I'm going to go to 1C, which is approval of the minutes from our last meeting. It was a special called meeting on May 19th, 2026. Has everyone had a chance to kind of peek over the meeting minutes? Did anyone notice anything that needed to be changed? And if not, I will entertain a motion.

We'll make a motion that we approve the amendments, excuse me, the meeting from last week.

Okay, do I have a second?

I'll second.

Thank you all. All right, we'll vote. All right, and the motion passes. Then we're going to go to our business section, section 2A, discussion regarding a PNZ workshop.

Mr. Chairman we reached out a while ago about a opportunity that arose that's going to come up July 9th to the 10th and it's going to be hosted by the North Central Texas Council of Governments the COG and so we just we know we sent it via email but we hadn't received a lot of answers, so we just wanted to chat with y'all in person and see if y'all were interested in attending that. That one is in Arlington, so I know that it's a little bit farther and it's during the work day, the work week. So we also kind of wanted to just let y'all know that there is another opportunity of bringing someone in and having them kind of go more into detail as well so we have both options just wanted to see what y'all were feeling if y'all were wanting to attend that one or if you'll prefer to have someone or if y'all wanted to have both options so

Thank you for researching that and presenting it. I'm self-employed, so I'm a little more flexible in what my days and times are. So I had told the city staff that I'm available for whatever the rest of the commission would like to do. That being said, do you have an idea of the time that it would be? I looked up July 9th and 10th as a Thursday and Friday. Maybe that might help people decide.

It says it's open from 9 to 4 with lunch being available. OK. And so that would be something that we cover price wise. But again, I know that we all live busy lives. And so I just wanted to see what everyone's opinion is on that. Or if we prefer to have someone come in and

If they came in and did one for us, would it be a one day thing? Would it be a two day thing again?

I think we would begin it as a one day seminar workshop during our regular PNZ commission time. And if we wanted to do it like a part one, part two, we can definitely look into that.

alrighty so um i'd like to hear from everybody on the commission on what they um would like to do i think it's so that i think this is really important for us to do um a more in-depth training because you know all of us um you know watched the youtube videos and did the little state training packets and stuff like that but i think it might be helpful for us to be able to like

more real-world examples of things and to be able to talk with people that do PNZ more you know so what do y'all think and if I can ask real quick the the Arlington venue which the ninth is I'm sorry won't work for me for for the beginning of the morning wouldn't work so I would be late just saying but would that be with a number of other persons also yes so it is open to all of north texas and beyond so it would be a variety of people so it wouldn't be one-on-one and i would ask that it would be here for that reason that i would that we could discuss possibly while it's going on and have i mean if it's you're giving us the opportunity yeah i would i would ask for that opportunity not trying to sway everybody but that's my opinion i'm open to either option however

I will be gone after the 14th of July. So if we have it in-house, I would love to attend, but it would need to be either before I go or after the end of September.

Did you state a date of when we would have it?

just the one that is offered right now through the cog okay yeah that one was july 9th through the 10th they'd have to look up scheduling to see when they could schedule one for us but but i'm sure it's we just don't have dates yet but they could find so it would be something that would be flexible we have an outsourced planner that we work with so we would probably just get with her and schedule something I obviously don't have her schedule in front of that, but we can be flexible on if we were looking for September, but just want to make sure that we're all on the same page. And obviously with the new appointments coming up next week too, we would want to make sure that all of our new members, but.

Okay, can Mr. Visas and Ms. Arrington, can I hear from you all too?

yeah i'll be um obviously i like the opportunity um but i'll be um open to getting it done here versus going down there i think it would be you'll pose a challenge for me schedule wise yeah so we have kind of like three flexibles and one for sure would mean to be here and mr errington um

Yeah. Yeah.

everyday situations, I think that that is . If she can see if they can even maybe adapt to another time with the ones that are not flexible to be .

OK, great. So it looks like we're gonna want, as a team, to have it here in Saginaw. And I guess I have one other question. Would some of us, if we were able to go,

Yes, so we would still want to have that available to y'all if y'all wanted to. So that was going to be my next question. If y'all would like to raise your hand if you are interested in attending those.

And my next question was going to be, can we carpool or would that be breaking like a quorum if some of us drove together to it? I just wanted to put it out there.

Y'all could carpool as long as there's less than the quorum amount. Gotcha.

I wanted just to make sure everybody knew that. Yes. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Okay. So.

So if you all could just have a, I'm sorry.

Yeah. I'm very interested in going just because I know the North Central Texas Council of Governments is, they're like the big regional planners. Like they're the ones that they just funded the new Texrail stop that's going to extend from downtown Fort Worth to the hospital district. they're the ones that are doing the high-speed rail or whenever you hear about the trails getting connected between cities, that's them. They helped fund the bridge that we have. Whenever there's a little bit that needs to be done, they come in and they help the whole region talk to each other. If the county, the state, the city isn't talking, and so I would be interested in at least being a part of something like that if I could.

Yes. And then just as a kind reminder, if we can all talk into our mics. We are recording these, so just please make sure that we turn them on, talk, and that way everyone can hear us in the audience. But if we can have a list of hands of just how many people would be interested in still participating in the COG, then I can go ahead and purchase the tickets.

Meeting in what? I'm sorry?

so event the in-person event if you can go to the 9th and 10th you're allowed to go but we're still going to do something here in saginaw so she wants to know who wants them to purchase tickets for us for the 9th and 10th yes and again y'all don't have to go but if you can just let me know and then i will i'll get my schedule changed i'll do i'm going to do something for that the 9th work it out i will go

okay well that is just what we're discussing i would love for us to talk about it here in our own personal form also because while that is a number of things you pointed out are great they're also huge and don't apply to what yes totally understand that's why i asked if we could do both and we can you know so

OK, well, I think that definitely helps us better understand so that way we can plan accordingly. So that is the end of that.

OK, great. All righty. So basically, yes, ma'am.

I want a carpool.

Okay. Got it. Yeah. We'll try to coordinate that. And just to be, so a quorum is three or more. So we got to work that out. But we can, you know, yeah. Yeah, I appreciate everybody making time to do this, because I know we're all volunteers. But I think this will be great for all of us. And yeah, let's get that on the books. And then the staff is going to work on dates with the in-house planner. And so everybody on the commission, watch your emails, because I have a feeling what's going to happen is they're going to email us with three availabilities. and we'll need to respond to the staff as soon as possible on what our preferred date is. That way they can schedule with this person, because this person goes around to different cities, and so the sooner we can book her and lock her in, the better for everybody involved. So just watch your emails. Alrighty, so I'm going to close out the business section at 6.16 p.m. And then we are going to go to our public hearings. Section 3A, consideration and action regarding a specific use permit, SUP, to allow the operation of an ice slash water kiosk at 345 North Saginaw Boulevard. and what I'm going to go ahead and do is open up the public hearing at 6 16 p.m on that one so I believe that I have um at least one speaker here this evening is Mr chairman oh yeah so I will go ahead and introduce the item and then we can bring them up

So wanted to set the scene as a reminder, a specific use permit. So we have three different options when it comes to the permitted use table. We have permitted by right, permitted by a specific use permit, which is essentially a permit that we're looking at a property on a case-by-case basis and we have not permitted at all so in front of you today this item we have received an application for a specific use permit to allow the operation of an ice slash water kiosk at 345 north saginaw boulevard I have highlighted where this is located on the map provided in the memo. So it is on the Boulevard. It is located in Community Commercial Zoning as well as the Saginaw Boulevard Overlay District. And as a reminder, the definition of the ice slash water kiosk is a self-service machine or booth where people can purchase ice and water, typically located outside stores, gas stations, or parking lots. So with that being said, we did receive this application. The applicant is here. So if y'all don't have any questions for me, I will hand over the reins to them. But just wanted to open it up for any questions if you'll have for staff before I introduce the applicant.

Excuse me, does anybody have any questions for the staff before I ask the applicant to come up? We're still going to talk about it amongst ourselves after, but just if anybody had a burning question.

Okay, and then lastly, I'm sorry, I do want to just mention that we did receive a reply form for this item in support of it, and that was the only one we've received, but we do want to put that on the record that we received one from Ms. Debbie Hill.

And can I ask, I'm sorry, can I ask a question? This is for the entire piece, this SUP is going to be for this entire piece of property, this piece of equipment that's going on,

Yes, sir. So it is for the entire property. Anytime we give a specific use permit, it's for that property, that parcel.

So nothing else will go on that property?

So that's not what it necessarily means. It just means that we are granting or not granting an SUP for that specific thing that they're requesting. So in this case, they're requesting to allow the operation of an ice slash water kiosk at this address, but they would always be able to add any added uses if it were permitted by right. Now, if they needed an additional SUP for anything else, they would have to come again before y'all. And then if they were trying to add a use that was not allowed at all, then they would not be allowed to do so.

Okay, thank you.

Any other questions?

So if I recall, we had this conversation, but that was for amending our text to include SUP in community commercial, right?

Yes, sir. That is correct. So this is a whole separate item in the sense of this is just for the specific use permit portion, but we did see the I slash water kiosk portion of just integrating it into the permitted use table. And that was recommended for approval in community commercial. So because that was approved, we are now able to take the SUP applications for that within the zoning district. That is correct.

Yep. Thank you.

Of course. Anybody else have any other questions?

I do and part of this was brought up so because we're doing we're looking at it sup for the whole property although the applicant has proposed to put it it looks like in the corner of the property since let's say that this item passed tonight would the applicant be able to put it anywhere on the property

I believe that would just be in terms of how you'll add any stipulations to it. So a specific use permit, we are able to add stipulations within reason. We are obviously not able to regulate any building materials. State law prohibits that, but I will confirm that with our city attorney.

Yeah, I just wanted us to be clear, you know, because I know sometimes things are proposed, but, you know.

Yeah, my recommendation would be that you can do conditions upon approval. So if you would like to put those conditions when you make a motion, then you're able to do that.

Okay, thank you. All right, I don't have any other questions for staff. We could call up the applicant. I was going to read up that Ms. Deborah Hill, I have this, you know, one, spoke in favor of it, and she's at,

337 north saginaw boulevard which i believe is like two lots south of there i think yes i believe it's next door um so i think that was the only one you received on the record but if we're ready for the applicant then i will go ahead and invite mr and mrs craver to the podium and then if y'all could just oh well never mind lisa's on top of it she already has the powerpoint up if y'all could just introduce yourselves and where you're from

Yes, I am Jennifer Craver, and I am from Saginaw, Texas. This is my husband.

Scott Craver. Howdy.

So to kind of follow up a little bit and review, we were here a couple meetings ago to present this originally. This property, we are actually, we own 345, the one next to it, and then Ms. Hill owns the one after that. So currently there is a building on our second plat that belongs to us as well. So does that help?

Thank you. Yeah, it makes me under, I'm looking at the picture, I understand it a little better.

Yeah. And then we do plan on putting the kiosk, if approved, the corner because if we decide as a family to Develop the rest of the land we could still do that around the kiosk or we could move it. It's not a I Mean it will be permanently Placed but it's movable. So if we decided to move it We could do that later I do have, I know there are a couple of members here that were not here during the last meeting, so I do have a small presentation. It really is still the presentation that we had in the first meeting that we attended, so it's not completely accurate, but it does give, which one am I supposed to push? Where am I supposed to point this? Advance. It's not moving. Is it on? There we go. Somebody else move it? Oh, where am I supposed to point it? Oh, is it not working? Oh, it's working. Okay. Okay. Anywho, a little bit about the property. My family has owned it since 1958. My grandfather purchased it. Approximately two acres we own it since then it's historically been used for small business My grandmother had a laundromat there. We had some rental properties that were on the lots and then also we had a couple of businesses that used to have a saddle shop on it and then There was a paint and body shop there that for many years was on the location as well again, we're just here to get approval for our SUP application, and so that we can move forward with installing the kiosk.

Yeah, it's not working.

OK, there we go. I don't know why it's on. I used to be a teacher, so I used to use those, but was it on? I'll just continue while she's doing that. It's self-service, no staffing. The machine will be a brand new machine. They're built in Georgia. They transport it here. We use a big crane and it sits on the property. We will provide a cement pad for it to sit on. We will have, which I'll show in a couple of minutes, but it will look very presentable. It will not be a used kiosk. I say that because there are people that purchased used kiosks when people retire or for whatever reason, and we're not doing that. We are purchasing a brand new one. Minimal traffic, and again, it provides a daily service for a lot of traffic that we have on the boulevard.

Next.

Concept plan, you've seen it. We would have the cement barricades around it so that just prevents people from driving into a building. Again, we're proposing it to be on that corner of Northern and the Boulevard. Twice the Ice is the company that we would purchase the kiosk from. It would be our kiosk. It is not a franchise. It would be our property, so we would own it and maintain it.

Yay, thank you.

Again, there's two, as far as parking, we have parking already there that was revamped so of course we would also get with TxDOT and anyone else that would have to approve any additional permitting but we do already have parking spaces provided there on the boulevard that were there for both our previous building and the building that is still standing which is basically it's just ours nothing's going on in that building so but there are parking spaces available it's self-service there's no staffing there's no reason to hang out by the building, so it's just a minimal site circulation. approximate design. There are different sizes. They have an ice house that is the biggest version. And you'll see in a couple of slides that there is a report that warrants us getting the largest version that they offer. And we would either do that or the second largest. So it just, that's our goal. But this is pretty much what it would look like. As of right now, this is what we would like for it to look like. Again, this gives you a little bit more information about it. It's widely used service, it's affordable, it's accessible, it's purified, healthy, filtered water and ice. You can buy it in bulk or you can buy it in bags. You can actually bring your own water receptacles to put it in, or you can bring your own ice chest, or you can buy ice bags from the kiosk. If you'll see the projected number of bins done by a Buxton report, which is an off-site service provided by different people. It projects that we would have 26,000 VINs per year, which is amongst the highest because of the amount of traffic that we have on the boulevard. And that's just a survey that they did for us. So we would have a positive impact. These are just some more technology features of it with the freshness of the eyes, the filtration system. It's on-site production. We have an, it's an app that's integrated so people could actually purchase through an app or they could purchase onsite as far as dispensing the ice. As business owners, we would be able to remotely monitor what was going on with the machines. If there was anything that was, that it goes down or we could, we would be alerted to that. And then we can, again, manage our facility properly. We would also have, INFORMATION ON THERE IN CASE THERE WAS SOMETHING GOING WRONG WITH IT THAT SOMEONE COULD CONTACT US AND WE WOULD BE ABLE TO ASSIST OR GIVE REFUNDS IF NEEDED. AGAIN, THIS IS KIND OF BACK TO WHERE WE STARTED. THERE'S CURRENTLY ONE SMALLER VENDING MACHINE LOCATED WITHIN THE CITY. THERE WAS A SECOND ONE. IT WAS MOVED WHEN THERE WAS MORE DEVELOPMENT DONE ON THE BOULEVARD. I BELIEVE IT WAS IN THE in the same location as the current chicken Express and At that time we know we went through that process. It was not on the table now. It's on the table. So We have submitted our specific use permit and that's what we're doing here. So That's what I just went through Again WE HAVE NO PLANS OF DEVELOPING ANYTHING ELSE THERE IN THE NEAR FUTURE. IF WE DO, IT WOULD BE IN CONJUNCTION WITH THIS VENDING MACHINE OR WE WOULD MOVE IT TO ANOTHER LOCATION. ANY QUESTIONS FOR ME? OR MY HUSBAND?

Yes, specifically when you talk about 26,000 vans, I'm sure that's a great number for you to think about. What about the parking for that? I mean, you're going to put in parking spaces with the machine itself, correct? The pad?

There are already parking spaces located there.

they marked I was just about to ask the city staff if they could pull up the overhead like of the site because I just wanted to try to visualize where the parking is sure and they are not currently marked but there are spaces there and we would mark them but we would definitely not have you know they're on the from what i understand they're on the road so like if you look like where the arrow is on that picture i just want to make sure that that's the i know it's any opportunity between like where the flat part of the arrow is and the other red there's kind of like a lane of like asphalt and i believe that's where they are

So, yeah, so where that is, when TxDOT redid all of that through there, all of that, that came back and concreted all that. So the parking spots will actually be concrete. They just never were marked, and so we would actually go through and mark all the parking spots. We would not have a free-for-all. Everybody just pulls up and does what they want.

Well, I didn't know if you were going to have, because I know that it has posts around it. Some of those kiosks have people just pull right up to the kiosks.

Yes, sir. So, yeah, we plan on them having parking spots.

I had some questions about the visits. So you had mentioned that there was going, that there were two reports that kind of like had an idea of how much business you might have. Was the 26,000 one, because you said like you're either going to buy the biggest machine or the second biggest, is the 26,000 visits a number, is that what you would use to maybe buy the biggest one?

YES. I DON'T THINK IT'S IN THIS ONE. I THINK IT WAS IN OUR LAST. the slide deck for the council meeting, but it didn't, this is not that one. I actually included the report in there.

So just doing the math, 26,000 divided by 365. It'd be 72 visits a day.

72 visits a day, right. Yeah, about three visits an hour. Mm-hmm.

And typically you're going to see those early morning, especially when construction workers or people that are working long hours will go and fill up their coolers because they're out in the heat and whatever, whatnot. You'll get an early morning crew probably, and then as they go throughout the day, different things. And then, of course, you're going to see an influx of visits during holidays, special occasions. I know when I have people over my house, I'm always like, can you bring ice so they're guaranteed to show up, things of that nature. So that's kind of, it would just kind of balance itself out. Right now there's, I'm sorry.

And again, so how many parking slots are you going to have?

I read two.

We would probably have two, but we could mark more than two if needed. If we find it, because we have parking that goes, we own both lots. So I just don't feel like we'll need as many because there won't be that. I just don't feel like there's going to be a times where there's a big line of people that are lined up.

And my question about it is, we have people pulling up parallel. And then somebody double. I mean, you are going to have construct. We'd have tons of construction. Oh, we have people park there all the time. Long vehicles with them. And they're going to go, oh, this is great. I'm just going to pull straight in here. And it may affect your other building.

But that's why there's no business in the other building currently. But we do have people pull in all the time and park there and. AND TAKE BREAKS, TALK ON THEIR PHONE, ALL THOSE THINGS AND THEY PULL IN PARALLEL AS YOU ARE SAYING. BUT WE WOULD MARK THEM SO THEY WOULD BE STRAIGHT IN PARKING SPACES. AND IF THEY ARE STRAIGHT IN AND THEY STILL HAVE A LONGER VEHICLE, THEY WOULD STILL HAVE PLENTY OF ROOM TO PULL IN THAT WAY AS WELL.

AS FAR AS THEY ARE MARKED. RIGHT.

Yeah, just off the top of my head, just thinking about that, there could probably be at least a dozen parking spots marked there.

Because you have a lot of space. Yes, sir. I'm familiar with that. I am familiar with the space.

The only lighting that is going to be on the site is on that top overhang, correct, that's going to be shining down? If you can see them, they're like little cup lightings. Yep. OK.

And then once we get approved for our specific use permit, then we would also assess if we need additional lighting. And that would be something that we could definitely put in. I believe there is a street light on the corner.

Yeah, because I just noticed in the picture, the concept plan picture, that the motel is across the street, and I can imagine, you know, people need nice, you know, walking over there kind of thing.

There is a lot of foot traffic.

Yeah. Okay.

But I do believe there is a street light there on the corner of Northern and the Boulevard.

At this time, you have no plans for development of either of those lots?

No, ma'am.

Feel free. You can ask any questions you want.

What about the noise and operational impact during the night time when everybody has actually left regular work hours? I wanted to ask the staff, does the staff anticipate any noise or operational impact adjacent to the properties?

She's getting to you.

Sorry, we were adjusting the audio. What was your specific question, Commissioner?

Mine was regarding the noise and operational impact. Does the staff anticipate any noise or operational impact adjacent to those properties since she said that she didn't own one piece of property but the other two that she actually owns?

So the property in question for this one is just the marked 345. We wouldn't be able to consider 343 and 337 if that is.

So they own the one that is in red. They also own this one right here. and there's not currently a business operating in there and then the lady that wrote us the letter in support of it owns that property okay so um but right technically we can only it's not going to be louder than a train is it i mean we can talk about that

Yeah, so for that specific question, we wouldn't be able to look at the other lots in regards to the noise, but you would be able to consider the overlay as a whole in itself. But just in regards to the noise aspect of it, we did not receive anything in regards to that to be able to answer that. On their application, they said that it would not be affected.

And just so Ms. Arrington, sorry, it's going to, Ms. Arrington, correct? Yeah, I'm going to, I'm learning everybody's names too. The city does have existing like noise and light ordinances and stuff. And so if ever there was a concern from like, let's say the neighbors behind that, then the city would address that, you know, in various ways. Yeah.

But the buildings are designed, sorry, I'm not speaking, yeah. The buildings are designed to minimize the noise. The outer shell is made so that it kind of deters the noise. Just like the things on the walls, the panels on the walls.

Okay, does any, yeah.

So, of course, I still think it's a good introduction for this type of business in Saginaw, and I see the use of the other small one over there, and sometimes it runs out. I personally use it sometimes when my machine doesn't work at my business.

Mr. Avices, sorry, can you please speak into your mic?

I thought that was loud enough.

No, yeah, we're having some audio issues on the other end, sorry.

I see, okay, so my only worry, and I think maybe that's where Peter was going with this about the parking, is when we look at that it is located now in the Overlay District. And that to me is the only real conversation we should be having as far as approving this is concerned. WHETHER IT SHOULD BE LOCATED THERE IN THE OVERLAY DISTRICT AND THE POSITIONING OF IT. SO THERE'S TWO THINGS. ONE IS THE PARKING. I THINK THE GUIDELINE IN THE OVERLAY DISTRICT IS THAT THEY'RE TRYING TO GET PARKING RECOMMENDED. I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S RECOMMENDED OR ENFORCED. I'M NOT SURE. THAT IT SHOULDN'T BE ON THE BOULEVARD ITSELF. but rather on the property or behind the building. That I know is definitely going to be a challenge, just putting my business hat on, to relocate that and have to spend this additional cost. Is that something that you would be considering to do if it comes down to it? Because I think that's really a challenge. The second thing was also that it's located at that corner. I don't know if it actually meets the other descriptions for what types of redevelopment they have been planning to have on the boulevard to have like a vending, an ice machine. It does. It does? Okay. So then the concern would be now, is there a way to move parking on-prem instead of...

So the parking that is currently there is actually on our property. It's on the property. It's not on the boulevard.

So the preface that, as you said, it got cemented, that is technically your property?

Yes, there is an easement that belongs to TxDOT. They purchased that from us and there is an easement there. So it's up to code currently with the fire code as well as TxDOT code. If it's not, then we'll address that with TxDOT because that would be, the roadway is maintained by TxDOT. And so we would definitely address the parking and know what's appropriate and what isn't. And we would follow those guidelines for sure. And if it's necessary for us to put in... an entry off of northern rather off of then then we would go that route but if that's only if it's only deemed necessary by tech stock that we would would do that and that's why we want to go through the proper channels and make sure that we're following all of the guidelines now so that we don't run into those hiccups later

I just would like, as we make the suggestion, I would like part of the suggestion to be that we have marked spaces and a number of marked spaces. Maybe when you take this forward to the city council, because it's, I don't want an undefined amount and we don't want every rock hauler in the world parking out there saying, man, this is a great place to get ice. Sorry.

Well, and that's something that we don't want that either. We don't want 18-wheelers pulling in there. So we could do whatever we could to put more bollards in there or whatever to keep from the 18-wheelers. That's the last thing that we want is an 18-wheeler pulling in there. Yeah.

We have had 18-wheelers pull into our roadway in the back of our building and park, where I've had to go figure out who they were and ask them to move. They were just storing their vehicle there for the weekend. So yes, we definitely do not want that. The other thing is that the time that people spend at the vending is way less than time in a traditional retail establishment. So it would be a quick turnaround as opposed to a long visit.

That's true.

Mr. Commissioner, we were able to bring up just the map view for all of y'all to follow along. I just wanted to let you know.

Just so everybody can see, so at the northern part of our image here, that is Northern Boulevard. And then to the right is 287 Main. And then you can kind of see there's like a little... Gully like a drainage it is drainage got it and I and then on the left side of that that is the part Correct, or does some maybe like your back tires are in the drainage channel Maybe like it like let's say there were six parking spots there from northern down to like where the little drain is or however many parking spots you can fit there they would be horizontal So when you pull in, okay, and where would like a regular SUV car, where would the back tires be? On the gully or over it? Like I can't tell scale, you know, like how wide that is.

Could I ask staff to kind of go out and show our current building that's there? So this used to be a paint and body shop. When they had people come and park there, it would be... You can see parking spots. Yeah, perfect. Right. And so it would be the same. We would carry that over to the vending.

Okay. Now I can see scale. Perfect. Thank you. All right. Okay, and then if y'all, if staff will kind of go back to the corner just so we can see. So the, I guess there's kind of like a little pile of bricks or rocks or something there. That is the pad that we're, that's, yeah, got it, okay.

Yeah, there's currently not one. We're going to add one. Yeah. We are not opposed to putting it in another location on our property. That's a good view. The reason that we went with that was because if someday we do decide to develop it, we could develop around it or we could choose to move it. So we just didn't want to place it in the middle because then it would be intrusive to the rest of the lot.

All right. Does anyone on the commission have any other questions for the applicant? Just a reminder, we're going to have our own discussion on the commission, but now's the time if we have any questions for the applicant. OK. Thank you all so much. Thank you. Appreciate it. OK, so if I'm not mistaken, I'm going to close.

We would just like to open it up for anybody in the audience, if we have anyone available to talk about this.

Anyone in the audience would like to speak about item 3A, feel free to come up to the mic. okay and if not then i'm going to close the public hearing portion of item 3a at 6 48 p.m and now open it up for our discussion so All right, I looked up what my colleague Mr. Visas was talking about on the Saginaw Boulevard corridor overlay district. And what it says in there, and it says Saginaw Boulevard corridor policies. It says, encourage the development of connected sidewalk network along Saginaw Boulevard with safe ADA accessible cross street pedestrian crossings. It also says locate parking on the sides, rear, or in the center of the development as opposed to the front. So that's kind of what it says as far as policy. Other than that, there's a lot of marketing fluff language about mixed use and that kind of thing. But that's all that I could find as far as policy. Um... The site is an empty slate, so lots of things could be done with it. I guess it's just if we say that we want parking in the rear or on the side, or we want a sidewalk so that the people from the hotel, I guess, next door or the neighborhood behind come to it, is that even like...

Well, as they stated, though, and I'm sure they have TxDOT on their side also, right? So they have parking spots there now. Right. But, yes. So they could fulfill those parking spots, and that is my wish is that they would state that whenever they come forward, we're going to have this many parking spots and where they're going to be. It may be convenient for them to put something in the back of it where people could walk up and that's going to be your marketing and your service. how you're gonna get your business done.

Yeah. It's just the, so TxDOT has owned and run Business 287 since before the Overlay District came in. So the Overlay District came in in 2019 and then in 2022 I guess they kind of like updated it. And that's really the only policy that I'm seeing because it specifically says as opposed to in front. So that's where these parking spots naturally are right now is in front. That's kind of the only hiccup that I see on all of this.

But you own that space, correct? Yes, sir. You own the space of the parking lots? Yes, sir.

OK. It's part of their land. Yeah.

So it technically is on their land. Yeah, I'm trying to see all sides of it.

No, believe me, I'm like, yeah.

Mr. Chairman. Yeah. In regards to just the regulations in regards to parking, I just do want to say that, so the Saginaw Overlay District has its own regulations. and then we have our own city standard regulations and so we would be looking if action were to be taken on this and if it were approved theoretically grc would be looking at this as a scope to see if they're in conformance with landscaping parkings and all of those things of that nature and that's typically done through the civil process and the or the architectural process So I do want to just let you all know that parking would be covered by staff. I don't think we would add any additional stipulations to the parking, I think is what Bryn's suggestion was at the last one. I don't want to quote him. i do want you to know that you can add any stipulations that you've seen fit but i do want to let you all know that from a drc perspective that is something that we would take into account when we are looking through their civils and their architectural aspects and we cannot approve that unless they meet the minimum requirements but

We won't beat it to death then. We at least had the thought process.

I read over the whole Saginaw Overlay District part and that was the only hiccup that I saw in it was about the parking being in front.

I think they appreciate y'all bringing it to their attention but I just wanted to let y'all know from a staff standpoint that is something that would be covered during the later process.

Okay. um yeah look i think the the owners of the land they've they've owned this land for a long time it's been in their family for a very long time they obviously are going to keep the land and have intentions at a future date to do something with it that's why this item can be moved they're putting it on a pad but it can be moved with a crane so if some you know mixed-use hilton chilies or something wants to buy this from them or develop with them they can do that at a later date if they want to um we're just looking at what what they're doing right now you know um And, I mean, there's other departments in the city that are going to address other things, like city staff said. So, such as parking or noise or, you know, those kind of things.

Yeah. What about landscaping?

So again, did you say landscaping is also handled?

Yes, sir. Landscaping is part of it. If you all had any other stipulations, again, you all could add that. But we, as staff, have our own regulations that we have to abide by.

Yeah, I mean, that was my only concern. Well, it wasn't the only one. I talked also about the location of the machine itself. But you did mention there that you can put it in a different spot. I think that spot is still a great spot for marketing purposes, really. But I wouldn't put too many restrictions on this. I feel like considering the overlay district, putting that in mind, and beautification of this boulevard, you feel like moving it a little bit further inside. That would be up to you.

so what what the staff said is there are minimums that every business has to meet for landscaping i think it's probably based on like the size of the building the size of the impact on the lot but if there's something that you wanted to add or mention and see if somebody else on the commission wants to second that you know um you can propose that you know if you want to add bushes or flowers or something on the corner you know Can staff bring up, just so everybody can see one last time, it's this image where it has the proposed site on the site, on the layout. It's this one, the rendering, sorry.

I believe it is page, well, it's not numbered, sorry.

OK, so if everybody sees that where the blue rectangle is, that's generally where they're planning on putting it. So it's not right up on the corner, and it's not right up on the, you know, it's kind of two-thirds of the way from the south side, you know.

And me, as a consumer, that's what I would want. I would want to get out of my vehicle, take my minimal number of safe steps, get my product, and get back in the vehicle.

thinking out loud yeah yeah okay does anybody have anything else they want to talk about or ask and uh if not we can ask city staff a question um anybody have any questions If not, I can entertain a motion either way. Again, so everybody understands, this is to approve a specific use permit for just this kiosk on this site.

Mr. Chairman, I would like to make a motion to approve the specific use permit to allow operation of an ice water kiosk at 345 North Saginaw Boulevard. I don't have any stipulations.

OK. Do we have a second for that motion, the way that it is?

I'll second that.

All righty. Let's bring it to a vote. I don't have anything on my screen. Oh, I was like... I was like, I'm not the one holding us up today, but I was. Got it. All righty. Got it. And the motion passes. All righty. So...

Okay, thank you.

Y'all have a good evening. All right, now we're going to move to 3B. So consideration and action regarding a specific use permit, SUP, to allow the operation of a convenience store without fuel sales at 520 South Saginaw Boulevard, Suite 100.

And Mr. Chairman, before we open this, our city attorney has something to say.

Yes, I was just going to say Mr. Visas is going to have to recuse himself for this because he is a neighbor of the property, so I just wanted to make you aware.

All right, thank you, Mr. Visas. Yep, we'll see you in a little bit. Yeah. So I'm going to open this up at 6.59 PM for item 3B. All righty.

So we received specific use permit application for property 520 South Saginaw Boulevard, suite 100 for requesting the operation of a convenience store without fuel cells. It is stoned as community commercial and located in the Saginaw Overlake District. Definition is also included in your packet, just for you guys to have that as reference for the definition of that use. The applicant did disclose that approximately 10% of the floor plan area will be dedicated to uh tobacco related products and displays and that's below the limit for this to need an sup for a tobacco shop the operation hours are 6 am to 11 pm seven days a week four to six employees are anticipated to be on the store employed by the store there are a total of eight standard parking spaces and one 88 one that's already provided to the suite from the property owner On your packet, the applicant also included a list of the products that they plan to sell at this location, with them primarily being used prepackaged goods, snacks, toiletries, and just convenience store related items forward. convenient access to residents around the area. We do have an additional packet that was brought to us by the applicant prior to this meeting. We provided copies to everybody. So it seems that they have just added a more detailed rendering of the proposed frontage and signage of the store. and site plan that outlays where the checkout area would be, the beverage and coolers, employee room, as well as the racks for snacks, chips, and the other grocery goods that will be provided. But again, the applicant's also here, so if you guys don't have any questions for me, I'll introduce him so that he can take over.

I did have a question for staff, just because we brought up. So tobacco and tobacco products and accessories will be sold here. But because they plan on their sales not reaching a certain threshold of that category of items, they don't have to apply for some special tobacco permit.

So it's not based on the estimated sales of tobacco products. It's based on the percentage of tobacco products that will be sold. So the percentage of total items in the store, only 10% will be tobacco products.

Got it.

That would include zip-sag rolling papers, big lighters, clipper lighters, which are included on that packet. And just FYI, this was something that was discussed with staff before an application was submitted, and based on the 10% limit of products that will be sold, it did an action, a specific use permit for a tobacco shop. Okay. And within the language of the specific use permit, if you want it to be specific, it's included already, like the 10% language, but if you want to also include that on your motion to...

and you can kind of share that on like the floor plan too like it's just up at the front checkout counter i believe like so okay i just wanted to make sure because i heard that okay thank you staff all righty let me get over here so Okay, so if we could have the applicant, if there's an applicant available, could we have an applicant come up to speak with us? Hi, sir. If you could introduce yourself and tell us where you're from, please, because we record the meetings. Okay.

Ahmad Mohawish. I'm from Grand Prairie, Texas.

Thank you so much. If you could kind of just describe to us your application and what you plan on doing here in the city.

Okay. Thank you for the opportunity to present our request for a special permit. Our goal to operate a clean, professional, managed neighborhood convenience store that serves the local community. The store will be offered beverages, snacks, grocery items, hot foods, ice cream, slush drinks, lottery products, household initials, and everyday convenience items. Tobacco and nocturne products will be limited to 10% of the sales floor plan, and we will display it in a designated age-restricted area behind the checkout counter. We believe this business will be positive addition to the community by providing residents with the convenience access to everyday products while maintaining professional appearance and responsible operation. We will be committed to maintain a safe, clean, and attractive business that complies with all the city, state, and federal regulations, and we appreciate your consideration for our application.

Thank you, sir. So this, I see, I know that, you know, this is kind of like a rendering of it, and I know that it's not too exact, but this is in the shopping center that has, like, the Wingstop and the Dollar General and all that? Correct. So are you or the shopping center owner planning on like updating the facade of the building like to kind of match some of this or is this just like a representation?

Just a representation how the storefront is going to look like. The sign is going to be smaller because the area for the signage is going to be way smaller than the picture. But the rest, almost the same. You know, the glass doors where we're going to put the sign and stuff, and the entrance as well.

And then, do you know what business is currently, or was in that space? Like, so we can see on there? i'm not sure i believe it's next to the furniture store if i'm not wrong if i remember yeah i believe next to the furniture store okay it's a sweet 100. sweet 100 okay right because i know the furniture store moved and then it i'm just trying to visualize okay got it so it would be in between the dental place and i think there's like a Yeah, that Google image is old. I'm trying just to picture where Suite 100 is. Let's see.

But that's, yeah, that's what mine shows, pretty much this.

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

Okay.

There's a lot of competition of convenience in that area. Because we have currently a Dollar General, then there's the Carniceria market, then there is an African market that is next door that does convenience. And then there's Valero. So there's four, you know, kind of convenience-y competitors.

None of those are going to be our competition at all. Okay. Because we're going to have different products. Different products. Okay. But the Valero, yes, the gas station, they're going to have like 40% to 50% what we have, but our cost is going to be way lower because the overhead is going to be lower when the convenience store compared to a gas station. Almost half. So we can go lower in our prices. because our overhead is not that high.

And it looks like you also, so not only are you gonna have like kind of snacks and grocery, basic grocery items, if licensed, you're also gonna have beer and wine.

Correct.

And like some household, you know, personal care products, automotive travel. I see lottery and then phone and electronic accessories also.

That'll be part of this? Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

And will this location be branded, like, as part of, like, I don't know if you have other locations, or is it going to be called Saginaw Convenience Store? That's what I'm going to call it, yes.

Okay. It's going to be DBS Saginaw Convenience Store and more. Okay. Yes, sir.

Okay.

Does anybody on the commission have any questions for the gentleman? You can ask him anything. And everybody got this little extra packet, right? All right. Okay. If nobody has any questions for the gentleman, we can let him take a seat and then discuss it amongst ourselves or see if anyone in the audience has any comments.

Yeah? Everybody okay?

Okay. Thank you so much for your time, sir. Thank you. all right so i will open this up for i believe i'm opening it up for public discussion to the audience yeah to the audience yeah it's 7 0 8 p.m so if anyone in the audience would like to speak on item 3b please feel free to come to the microphone mr chairman we also wanted to note we didn't receive any reply forms for this item Thank you. I didn't see any, but I know sometimes they come in last minute.

Just for the record.

All right. Okay. And if nobody wanted to speak, I will close that at 7.09 p.m. And then I'm going to open it up for us to discuss item 3B. So, yeah.

Yeah. I have one question.

Just make sure. We've got to speak into this. And the reason why is because not only people watch this on YouTube later, but also they transcribe it for people that can't hear. And so it writes it like what we're saying. Yeah. That's why we're sticklers on talking into the microphone.

Yes, I have one question. Were there any public comments submitted regarding this applicant?

We didn't. We didn't have any public comments submitted.

Right, right. And we got all the last documents that we just, this was it.

That was received today, right before the meeting from the applicant, yes.

Okay. Like I mentioned, I mean, there's a lot of kind of, I call it convenience-y, service-y businesses in the area. But that being said, there appears to be a demand for it. So who am I to say, you know, I mean, I work in jewelry and I was actually counting the other day, like this one stretch in Southlake has like nine jewelry stores. And I do not understand how they all can survive. I really don't. But they do. So that's not for me to decide, you know. And, you know, it's 2026. People can differentiate. I mean, I really like, you know, he talked about offering, like, slushies and stuff like that. Oh, my goodness. I'm, like, keeping them in business right now because I go get a slushie at QT and then I go get a Slurpee and then I go get an Icee. So yeah, I mean, competition's competition. And he said he can offer things at a better value, a better price, and different product items. And that's what America's all about, trying business. And I love to see new businesses come into empty spots. I will say I wish that the shopping center developer would make the shopping center look like this. So I don't know if they're watching. That would be awesome. So, yeah. Yeah, please.

And I like the fact that he is naming it after Saginaw. That's one thing that I liked. I also agree with the phone and electronic accessory that we so much need a more diversified right here in this system. So I agree with it.

Yeah, for sure. Yeah.

I think I'm good.

OK. All righty. So I will entertain a motion on this item.

I make a motion to approve the action regarding specific use permit to allow the operation of a convenience store without fuel sales at 520 South Saginaw Boulevard, Suite 100.

Awesome. Do I have a second?

I'll second that.

All right. And then we'll take a vote. All right. And the motion passes. So all right. Congratulations. And I wish you all the best. All righty. And then now we're going to go to item 3C, consideration and action regarding, oh, hold on. Oh, yeah.

If you want to get services. I'm just going to leave them back there.

All right.

Okay, so now we're gonna go to item 3C, consideration and action regarding a textural amendment to the standards and development plan for tract one out of the square plan development. All right, staff.

So Mr. Chairman, we received a request to amend the current square development plan development, specifically 1.3 acres out of track one, and that is located at the corner of Saginaw Boulevard and Saginaw Square. Boulevard we can have a map pulled up that way y'all can see it so it is directly in that Northwest corner it is 1.3 acres out of that tract one so as a reminder the square is Plan development is consisted of four tracks and this is only for track one. So it is currently zoned community commercial for that track one and they are only updating the conceptual plan. So the current plan development includes one singular multi-tenant building with entrances located all around.

And that's what you're seeing up there.

So this would provide a more walkable shopping experience. However, the applicant who is here on behalf of the owner If we can scroll down to the proposal. So they are proposing a strip center Yes, so they are proposing a five suite strip center that would change the layout and staff did recommend that the layout be reconfigured so that it would align with the current PD and the current site plan. However, this is what they are proposing today.

So in what you mean by staff recommends that it be aligned with the current PD, would that be to keep the square building that's there, or would that be to move the building? What do you mean by staff would recommend to align with the current?

Yes, so during the review process and in speaking with the applicant, staff did recommend that the layout be adjusted so that the Entrances are located all around the building and it's not a strip center where the doors are located or the frontage is off of one side. So as you're seeing it now, the back end would only be for employees or for the trash pickup or anything that has to do with the back end.

Okay. So we're not seeing what staff would recommend? Correct. Got it. Just want to, yeah, got it. Okay.

Mr. Chairman, I just want to preface that by we're not recommending anything today. This was just during DRC review. We were suggesting to see an alternative exhibit that more closely resembled a more walkable approach. It seems like the intent of the square originally, if you go to the The original intent of the square was just to produce something that the sag now in general, the city has not seen before something a little bit more of an updated use where it wasn't typical strip center. We understand that the original configuration It seems that there were, like Ms. Hernandez suggested, there was three different entrances so that essentially there was no frontage. It was frontage on all sides. But with that, obviously we understand that there are restrictions of how many businesses they can have. So I think during the DRC process, that's why they explained that they were able to have more businesses in front that strip center format. And so that's why they weren't willing to go back and go back to the drawing board. So we have this application in front of y'all today so that y'all can decide if y'all prefer this method or if y'all would like them to go back to the drawing board X, Y, Z. But we did just suggest that during the DRC review process in itself, but want to emphasize that we are neutral today.

Understood. Okay. Thank you, staff. If we could have, if somebody is here from the developer, if we could have somebody join us up at the microphone.

And if you'll open the public hearing. Oh, yeah.

I'm going to open up the meeting at 718 p.m. for item 3C. Thank you. Hi. And if y'all could introduce yourselves and tell us where you're from.

Good evening. My name is Kevin Cho. I represent the ownership of the lot, and I'm from Carrollton, Texas.

Nice to meet you. Hi, I'm Chang Sun. I'm an architect for this project. I'm supporting this team.

Thank you. So... I've been on this commission for a while.

I remember when Saginaw- You probably remember this project.

I very much remember this project. That's great. And from where I'm coming from, not just as the commissioner of this, whenever I first saw this development, I was an alternate.

In fact, I sat all the way down there where you're sitting in that chair.

So I've been here for a minute. kind of me as a resident, not just as the member of this commission, like I see the development, we've changed it a lot over the years. And a lot of that is because this development was proposed before COVID, you know, and COVID changed everything. Correct. So I just want everybody on the commission to just kind of get caught up where we're at. And I know what staff might say, we're only cons and lawyer might say, you know, we're only considering the slot, but I do want everybody just to be aware of the, this whole development as part of one thing, the city, you know, split with the developer 50-50 to build Saginaw Square Road through, okay? So that means taxpayers funded half of the road. The developers paid for the other half of the road. There were, can we go back to the whole, yeah, the whole development? There were three retail sites on Old Decatur, which we can't even see in this. That was brought down to two so that the apartments could have more parking. Then on this right side, where we're looking at right now, there were two pad sites on the south side of the road, and we made a SUP or a change to make it a long strip center. At that time, I was nervous about us adding the long strip center. Yeah.

Sorry to interrupt. Just want to clarify. It was not an SCP. It was a textural amendment.

It was a textural amendment. Thank you. To put in the long strip center that's already being built on the southern side of the road. my concern at that time was that it was going to block the view of the two lots behind it because now we have this long building that's blocking the two lots behind it and that would be my concern here as well that although and we could get five up to five businesses because if somebody comes in and wants to lease two or three of those spots you'll lease it to them correct i mean yes so we could end up with two businesses in there but you know um is that we would be blocking the view of the other you know which this is part of a whole development this is called the square development so although we're considering this textural amendment to just the lot that's surrounded in red we do need to i believe we need to still consider visibility how traffic flows all that around it just like staff is saying about like walkability on this lot And if we put a rectangle building there, I mean, which business is going to want to go into the retail restaurant and the activity play area that's behind that? Y'all are, I'm assuming, the developer for the whole thing, correct? And you're representing the landowner for the whole thing. Correct. So has that kind of been thought of?

Well, I mean, initially, There was a building there. It wasn't specified on our PD. I think it was more conceptual at that time on how we saw how the lot's going to be aligned and that sort of stuff. So there was really no actual size of the building, although if you look at the renderings of how the PD was passed, there were still a retail building there. We didn't specify what it was or what the actual usage was, but it was a retail. I guess our proposal is to kind of enlarge it. And I guess I could kind of understand your standpoint that it may block the view of the lots behind us. However, even previous, there was still a building there. maybe a little bit smaller, at least on the conceptual drawings. And so on the wing of, I guess, south and north, north and south, there could have been some visibility off of 287. And since we enlarged it, and try to make it the best use for that lot. However, coming down on 287, I'm not sure how much that visibility, obviously we still own the lots behind it, right? So we still have to consider that in the future, however we develop it or future buyers may come in and try to develop those lots. How much of visibility did we block by trying to place this building? you know i mean we did consider that but we also consider the fact that specially this is fronting two eighty seven uh... we needed the best use possible for the this lot especially being one point three acres obviously uh... if you look at the rendering on the north side there's a triangular section that we can't develop uh... because of the easement so it's actually hasn't been in large to the configuration of the lot itself, right? Right where the north end of our current proposed building is where there's a sewer easement. So that was the maximum that we could get. But still, we would, there's quite a bit of a lot back there. a third of an acre, I think, in that triangular formation. And plus, with the parking, I don't foresee that it's really blocking the view of the lots behind us. And especially with 287, the traffic speed, I don't know if you actually want somebody to be driving at whatever the speed limit is there, 45 or 50 miles an hour, and start looking So that was another consideration, right? If it was a local lower speed, maybe for our development purposes, we might have wanted to see if we could try to minimize the blockage so there's visibility. But I think even if you look at the renderings on the previous PD pass, the proposed building or the lot behind us wasn't really I guess, I don't know, scale-wise, maybe on the north side, a third of it, depending on how that actual development comes along, might be slightly visible, but I don't think we've really blocked anything. And plus, like you said, on the south side, there was a same, strip center, so we're trying to mimic the same development.

And that was already up. Will this proposed, because you're also part of developing the current strip center to the south that's being built right now, correct? Yes.

Are they going to have the same look to them because of it being- Mr. Chairman, I just wanted to preface with we can't take the other portions into consideration. We would just need to focus on this one.

Okay.

But we are going to make the facade the same.

The facade the same, okay.

Got it.

I mean, Ben, I'd have a higher concern if it was somebody else owned what's behind him. But they own what's behind him.

No, but again, the intent of this development, and let's go back. And I know that it's a PD, and I know that it is conceptual. But the intent of this development was to have a lot of sit down restaurants and fast casual restaurants.

And I just- Well, as far as usage, I mean, that's what we're going to be targeting. Yeah. Even on this building. I know that the building on the south also has stipulation of sit down fast casual, and I'm kind of helping the leasing aspect of it. Okay. And that's where our main concentration is to probably minimum two, but I think we're talking with about three, four different possible restaurants. Yeah, but are we-

I'm just playing devil's advocate here. Are we judging everything off of Saginaw Boulevard? You're not taking into consideration of the Saginaw Square Boulevard coming up? I mean, that's going to give us its own look also, correct?

Look, I'm pro-business wherever the business comes. I just want us to all be aware that the intent of the Square Plan Development District and the reason why taxpayers funded 50% of Saginaw Square Boulevard And if I'm not mistaken, there's also an incentive that could come from the city, was that we were going to try to target and incentivize getting sit-down restaurants with a walkable play. I mean, that's why it shows, and I know that it's a planned development, but that's why it shows activity area and play trails and all this kind of stuff.

But even the building behind it, the lot behind it, probably more than likely the face was going to be the Saginaw Boulevard that we created, right? It was not going to be facing 287. So in terms of, you know, if I'm catching you correctly, you're saying that because we kind of enlarged this building, we are blocking.

Taking down the chances of like a cotton patch or Chili's or somebody like taking that little retail restaurant area with the activity play area and the little trails. And if I was that business and now I have this big brick in front of me like where the busiest road is.

Well, even before it was gonna be a building. Yeah. There was no stipulation on the height, whatever, and that sort of stuff.

I just wanted, look, we're going to do whatever we're going to do. I just wanted everybody to be aware of what I knew about the proposals and the other people from this development that have come before us.

I appreciate that. I'm, again, just playing a little bit of a devil's advocate here to say there's two roads, and one of them may get real popular that's different.

Well, as far as I know, Saginaw Square, which we also dedicated, you keep mentioning that the city helped pay for that road, or 50%, but we also dedicated that road, which is, in my opinion, I don't know what the direction is, east and west, we created a public... roadway for Saginaw. If that road was not there and we didn't dedicate it, I think the next turnabout was gonna be in Fort Worth, obviously, about a quarter mile down. So those were all considerations, obviously, for the developer to dedicate that way. And that's my point, I think the popularity may come up when you, if we could get some... There's a lot of traffic on Square Boulevard right now, even without the retail already opening. Obviously, we have the apartment in the back, Is it east? I don't know the exact direction, but obviously the apartment's already open. And that Saginaw Boulevard roadway is a vital viaduct, I think, between the old, is it old Decatur Road and 287. And so that's how this whole development came along. And obviously... you know, when we had this PD pass, you know, those were more than likely proposed, but, you know, now as we are developing, you know, we're trying to do the best usage for that lot, and we're providing more than enough parking, and again, Because of the easement, we're not even enlarging the footprint. I think it's a little bit larger than what was rendered proposal on the PD. However, for the best usage of that lot, we've also considered, hey, is that going to be really blocking the visibility of the proposed which we don't know yet behind us but also I'm saying even the lot behind us and anything that develops it's going to be facing the square not facing 287, so I'm not sure if our current proposed, say an enlargement of the building is going to be blocking the visibility of that particular building. Maybe they raise it a little bit higher or I don't know if it's allowed, if there's a monument sign or something of that sort, but it was never proposed as a vacant lot so that the lots behind us can be 100% visible. I do understand that it is enlarged and there could be possibility of some blockage of the development and the buildings behind the lots, but I'm not sure the intention was that we wanted full visibility off of 287, especially when those buildings, I believe, were going to face the Saginaw Square and not face 287.

Okay, I understand. I totally know that things can change and you gotta be flexible with today's realities of market. I actually, yeah, I totally get that. My concern is that a the spirit of the development was to have sit down restaurants with walkable areas and activity, play, walk areas, and that it's still possible, but that the caliber of business or the type of business that could come back there would be somewhat affected by having a larger building. And I just wanted to point it out. I wasn't saying I'm anti this. I just wanted to point it out. Now, if we can, because I think I got us off track. I was mainly just trying to kind of say some of the history of what I knew about this. On this proposal that you turned in, I see that on the north side, is that like a patio of some sort? Or is that like a drive-through lane?

It's just a concrete pad. Just a concrete pad?

Yeah, the activities.

for activities and stuff? Yeah. So I guess kind of in the spirit of what the city was saying when the city was mentioning about having more of the businesses and kind of the activity at the businesses like face inward to the development, could that be kind of flipped where there is a patio on the south end of that you know, so that that kind of faces in to the development, if that makes sense?

Or is it more... On the south side, we are starting with 15 landscape buffer, and we have fire and rain. That is the minimum we need from the city. Then after that we get to another landscape for protecting our building. So that is the maximum building scale field from that minimum start from the south property line.

Okay and staff could you know I'm trying to figure out a way to with this plan that was sent in but to also have the this new change and building kind of be a little different and fit in more than just like a strip center so I like the idea of there being a concrete pad. The business can decide if it's a play area, a patio, showing off their barbecue grills, whatever it is that goes in there on the north end.

That sits on an easement, a sewer easement, so it could only be a pad that... I mean, if it's allowed, I would love to convert that into a patio for a restaurant. Yes, I would too. And that would be my, you know, and I'm the leasing agent also. I'm a real estate broker. And that would be my target is to try to give that corner to some kind of a fast casual or whatever restaurant.

Cocoa shrimp, Palio's Pizza Cafe, bring it to Saginaw.

That's what we actually kind of extended that a little bit further than the original design that our architect gave us. Okay.

and mr so my yes staff does want to point that you can add those stipulations to the pd yep and they would have to go back to city staff and present that reconfiguration of this okay for us to approve perfect and then my other big question is on the south end of the building okay the of the proposed new building that they've turned in

could we stipulate that the business would also need to have signage facing Saginaw Square Boulevard, almost like the business is like on the corner of the building. Two signs, front and the side. So that that way it's not just like a stucco wall facing Saginaw Square and it almost kind of like draws in people to whoever comes on the corner.

I wouldn't oppose to that because on the sides of the building, both north and south, will probably have about 30% coverage of wind. I just wanted to wrap more and have it be more of like... And we're going to have maybe about 30% of the depth. class. It won't be just a solid wall.

So you're saying someone moving into that building in the future to open a business would be required to have two signs? Correct.

One facing 287 Main and then one facing Saginaw Square. That way like the side of the business like wraps around the building. That way it's not just like

I understand that, but I don't think we should be for something like that. Signs are expensive. It's not going to be on him. It's going to be on the tenant that's coming in.

I think there will be a high percentage that the tenant, if allowed, will probably want to put a sign back there. Like I said, the first one-third of that space is going to be glass anyways.

Okay.

Okay, so it'll kind of have that frontage. You can see into the side of the business. Correct. I mean, it won't be completely just glass in the front. No, on the both north and south end will probably have about 25, 30% coverage of glass. So if actually, I think tenant probably wouldn't propose if you want to put it into stipulation or not. Even without it, I think the tenant probably want to put a sign there.

Well, and maybe if we don't even stipulate the sign, but that the facade, we can't do the facade of the building. Well, we cannot stipulate the building materials, but we can say that since we're changing the shape of the building, that we want it to be more open to Saginaw Square.

Actually, if you can bring our architectural rendering, we can explain well. So that is already considered the south, and the corner has been designed, we designed to open to the public, and it appeals to the customer. Not only the south and the north side of the building, we have a storefront, and with a I designed a facade so then we can put the sign either north side. Yes. Do they have the rendering? I submit to them, but yeah.

We might have a rendering of the building. We had a facade. Yeah, we're gonna check emails. Yes, yeah. The only reason why I'm bringing this up isn't to be onerous on the developer of the business. It's because if we're going to change the spirit of this development from little individual restaurant buildings to a rectangular strip building, I just want it to flow better and invite people to come into Saginaw Square instead of driving past it. Because there's still going to be three retail lots available behind it. And so I just want it to be more like all like welcoming to like come into Saginaw Square instead of just passing past it.

And Mr. Chairman, you can stipulate that the frontage needs to be in two different sides, right? On Saginaw Square and Saginaw Boulevard. And going back to your signage question. So due to our current signage ordinance, they are not allowed to have more than one for a multi-tenant building. And those are any properties that are within the Saginaw Boulevard. So they would only be allowed to have one, and that would be the one that's off of the street, and then the one on the- On the sign.

Okay, got it. Yeah, I got it, yeah. And I'm sorry, Mr. Visa, I wasn't clear on what I meant by having something on the side. I was mainly talking about like the- like kind of the facade of the building. And like what he said with having the glass down about 30% of it, it kind of invites people like, Oh, like what's in there? Like, is that a Froyo place or is that a cell phone store or whatever? It's a pet shop, whatever it's going to be. I didn't want it to just be like concrete and then people drive past it and they don't even see any business in there, you know? Okay. I think we might have a rendering coming maybe.

I don't know if they have it, but he could show it to you.

Can he show it?

We don't have a rendering, so we're not sure what y'all are trying to talk. Like reference?

Can you show the staff really quick what you're talking about?

Okay. Did you want to?

then that way they can bring it up on the picture.

Yes, that was considered, absolutely. And that's how we typically build our shopping centers is also put some glass on the side so that it's not a blocked facade. We obviously want to invite, especially now with the Saginaw Square.

It's busy now. It's very busy. I know, because I just ran for another office, and I actually campaigned at Range West Apartments. There are like a thousand people that live back there.

Hey, I'm so sorry. I believe also because we created the Saginaw Boulevard, all the development on Old Denton in the back. Yes, Old Decatur, yep. Old Decatur. All the retail came in because they know now that we have an access between 287 and Old Decatur. Before, it was either a turnabout, a quarter mile down the road, and or on the east side or west side. That was the only way to get into those businesses. back indicator and I know it's it belongs to the city of Fort Worth and they're doing their roadway improvements yeah so all of those empty lots and old Decatur actually were developed in my opinion because we have the uh no I agree I don't think uh you know Kava five guys Chipotle they wouldn't have come if they knew that that access was was was difficult But the Saginaw Square Boulevard created that access in the city of Saginaw rather than crossing over to Fort Worth, and so they all came along. Yeah.

I have a question. Yeah, sure. Yeah. These five, proposed five storefronts, How many vacant strip mall segments do we have that are empty in Saginaw? Do we need more strip malls?

Well, I don't know the answer to that question. I mean, earlier we just kind of approved one or two of them to be filled with another business. I think they're always kind of coming in and out. But I hear what you're saying. I think the way that we could ask the applicant about that is, are any of these pre-leased? So that that way you might know that it's not just going to be... Is any of them pre-leased? Or you can ask the staff too.

My concern is are we going to be over-supplied with strip mall facilities? And are these going to be I would assume that they were going to be rented to anybody who wants them, whether it's a pet store or a restaurant. Or are they going to particularly look for restaurants? I have no idea.

And again, I'm playing devil's advocate tonight. It's their market. It's their investment. And we're asking them to do a specific type of investment with us. Hopefully it's going to be better than what we've had in the past. And that's why we're trying to unify Saginaw Boulevard and things like that. This is a part of it.

yep they can they can put whatever they they can lease whatever they want to in there that being said i am aware that there is a bonus incentive is what i'll call it if there are sit-down restaurants in their development by a certain date i don't know what that date is but that is something that they're working on so it would behoove them to get more restaurants

We are going to be targeting probably minimum two restaurants in this center.

Mr. Chairman, I just want to acknowledge, again, we can't take that into consideration with the strip mall as a whole. It's specifically this use of this property, this lot.

Yeah, okay, okay, I understand. I read too much. I go to too many meetings.

Here's the rendering possibility of how-

Thank you for showing us this. I love the representation of a great architecture job.

Were you going to explain to us what sides sit where? Is that why you put it up?

Yeah. And also, I updated the latest one. So it's aligned with the south property. So that is why we are proposing. And I updated the drawing. So as you can see, the main facade is facing the 287. And then the other side, you can see the south and the other side is the north. You can briefly see the outdoor patio. So as he explained, we have a storefront on the north and south side so then we can welcome the all users, and also it's appealing to the users.

So that would be the south side, and that storefront is going to be facing Saginaw Square.

So it is on like the corner. Yeah, thank you. So it's got two sides. Yeah, that was my concern, and it looks great. Thank you.

As you can see, there is a tower at each corner, so then we can possibly put the signage on both sides. As you know, the business owner wants to promote their business by having two signs on this corner. I think that helps.

City doesn't allow the side.

So I don't know if they want to if it's gonna be a different permit or whatever but I think they said that you can have one sign per business And and plus the monument sign whatever is facing the road so because whenever I was saying to mandate to put one on the side and But that being said, you have windows on the side. Yeah. So the business, if it's T-Mobile or if it's- They'll put the graphics or whatever on the window.

Correct, on the window. So that would add as a signage.

I really like this. I'm very happy that we got to see a rendering of it. I would suggest that, like staff said, we can actually put it in our SUP that we want the patio, we want a play area, we want a- Mr. Chairman, it's a PD. the pd amendment pd amendment yeah um that we can put that in there because although look they they're businessmen you know they want to do what's best for it sometimes things change and you know if i don't know some, you know, pool supply company or something comes in and wants to lease 90% of the building.

Well, I mean, but the intention was to create a patio. That's why we're putting in the pad, the concrete pad. I like that. And encourage a restaurant. Obviously, If nobody wants to come in there and some other business other than restaurant, we have the right to be able to lease it. But the encouragement would be and creating that pad concrete was to put a restaurant.

It could be a home decor store and they could have an outdoor patio area where they show off a fire pit tables and stuff. I don't care what it is. I just want something else than a strip center. So it could you know, I've been has anyone ever been to barbecues galore at Alliance Town Center It's in like a strip center But they have an outdoor area and they show off all these really cool outdoor kitchens and stuff, you know, so anyways Cool. I don't really have any more questions guys. I just thought I'd point out kind of some of the things I've seen and I'm very happy to get some things moving on this property and

Yeah, I think it was right before COVID. It was. It kind of slowed down what we needed to do.

I had a little more hair back then. All righty. Anyone on the council have any other questions for our applicant? If not, we can open it up for the audience and then for us to discuss. Anybody have any more questions for applicant?

Mr. Chairman, I just want to add to your last point that if you would want to see the patio included or if you want a double frontage on the site plan, that has to be a stipulation that you add today.

Okay, thank you very much for pointing that out. Thank you all very much for coming all the way out here and for talking to us. And yeah, we appreciate y'all's time.

Great, thank you. Thank you. Thank you all.

all righty um does anyone in uh the audience want to speak on this item should i do i have to note the time no no it's already open yeah yeah just until you when you close the hearing you will anybody would like to speak now or forever hold your peace on item 3c And staff, I don't see, there wasn't any letters that we received on this one, no?

No, so for the textual amendment, we were not required to send out those 200 foot notices. Okay. So it was just noted on the newspaper.

Gotcha. All righty. So I'm going to close the public hearing portion of item 3C at 7 52 p.m. and then I'm going to open it up for the commission to discuss. So I know we kind of you know i could probably beat this one to a horse especially with me not being clear on what i was talking about but um i'm very now that i saw kind of what the proposal is i'm very happy with it i would just suggest to my colleagues that if we are going to approve this pd change that one we mandate some sort of outdoor area of sales to be had whether that is a patio for a restaurant or a you know what just outdoor area for the business that's there whatever it is And they're gonna work with the city staff as far as parking and signage and all that kind of thing. To be clear with city staff, so this one that they turned in, y'all are neutral on it, but there was a recommendation to kind of like turn the, like,

So staff, when we were going through the review process, it was noted that we would prefer a multi frontage building. Yes. So that it's not strip center and the frontage is on one side, so that we would have it all around.

Yeah. Yeah.

But seeing their rendition that they showed us, that is a nice presentation, I think.

I agree. I agree.

Mr. Chairman, for your recommendation to include that outdoor area, would you be able to be more specific on what it is that you are looking for?

So like where it shows here, this concrete pad on the north side of the building, I want that to stay. because whether if that is a Palio's Pizza Garden or like Mod Pizza or something that has like an outdoor area or Barbecue's Floor where they show outdoor kitchens or some sort of like home furnishings boutique where they set up like an outdoor sales area, like they have to, that pad has to go with the corner that's being leased.

Mr. Chairman, you would just need to specify what you would be looking for when you're saying outdoor sales. So we understand the patio aspect of it, but what we're needing to know is what kind of space we're referring to when we say outdoor so that we know that that is the intent of the area.

So question, because if... the reason why i didn't stipulate it as patio is because that could limit them from leasing it to like a home furnishings place where they would want to set outdoor furniture to like display it so i don't know how to so you can always say patio and or outdoor outside outdoor just i think what you're trying to explain for outdoor sales area is basically like somewhere where they can display their their goods and products is that what you're saying yeah

So that would help define that just from our understanding? Yeah. So you're looking at either a patio space or somewhere where they can highlight their goods and services outside? Yes. Okay. So we're not looking for like a play area or anything specific, just a patio and or somewhere where they can display their...

And the reason why I wouldn't mandate it as, it could be a play area if like Hat Creek Burger Company or somebody came in there. The reason why I don't want to mandate it as the play area is because there's that drainage easement right there. And so I don't know if like, I think we should be flexible with whoever they lease it to. Like whatever the business that comes in, as long as they have that strip available, they can decide what to do with that strip. That's kind of what my intention of mandating it was.

I don't know Yeah, we would just want some further direction because if we keep it as concrete pad it could stay as a concrete padded Yeah, it does not specify patio at the moment So if y'all wanted to specify that we would just need to know and make that thank you for public on the record so if we're wanting to do a patio and or a you know activated amenity space or sales space we can do that and

okay but it has to be in the motion we need to get that direction from y'all so that we can ensure that that language is within so if it's okay with my colleagues i actually like that language outdoor patio outdoor selling areas you know selling display area or activated activity space Like, it has to be something that brings the business that is leased there outside whenever the weather is available. Yeah. Yeah.

I had a quick question.

Yeah.

Yeah.

All right, so if we create a... Mr. Chairman, we're going to need to open the public hearing.

We need to reopen this.

So I'm going to reopen up the public hearing at 7.58 p.m., and then if you could just reintroduce yourself one more time. I'm so sorry.

Kevin Cho, representing the ownership of the property. Okay. So if we're creating a patio or any outdoor, you know, sales area or display area, are we allowed to put... What do you call it? Awning?

Awning or some kind of a... Yes. Yeah. I'm fine with... Well, as long as it passes all the codes of the thing, I would love an awning or a pergola thing. Pergola something. Or, you know, the business that comes in or that pays you for the build out or whatever can decide, you know, let's say it's like some rustic Italian pizza place. They might have wood beams coming out with like vines and stuff on it.

I didn't want to be just a concrete pad. No, me either. And then they put out their tables or whatever. That would be also our landlord's stipulation is you create or we pay for a pergola or awning or something to cover that. Because when I was discussing with the architect, we actually enlarged it. I think initially it was only like 14 feet or something. I believe right now we enlarged it to about 20 feet so that we have enough space back there. Yeah.

You know what? That's actually really good that he mentioned that because like at the La Madeline at Alliance Town, there's, okay, there's a strip center at Alliance Town Center and there is a Starbucks and then a La Madeline and they have an outdoor patio area and it's fully covered. Like it's open air. They have these like schools. Mr. Chairman. Hold on.

yeah i apologize we cannot reference any other business when it comes to this i know it's you know it's easy to i just want to make sure we stay on topic of this specific parcel um and just wanted to add to you know the awning space um with y'all's direction if you all wanted to add that to that um i just want to put it on the record i am not sure what the specific ordinance if it allows or does not allow and like what the stipulation is So if y'all are okay with us doing the research and getting with our building and inspections and our fire, whoever that's concerning, and then we could always add that to it if it is allowed through our code. Okay. And then we can kind of go from there if y'all are okay with that. But if we wanted to stick with patio activated amenity space and or outdoor sales area, as long as it's coincided with our code, we can...

the final language will be set.

Yes, the final language will be set by staff once we further look into that, just because I don't have that answer on top of my... For sure, and we don't want to hold...

I'm not asking for a stipulation that we must put an awning or something, but obviously... That's the intention. Yeah. If they want to put tables with umbrellas or something, that's another option.

And I think it would probably be allowed because we have some outdoor patio space, but I just don't want to have it on the record that it is a for sure thing because I want to make sure we... Gotcha.

And I would rather it be flexible for you as a developer because, you know... certain you know if it's a german beer garden they're gonna want the patio table umbrellas and if it's like some rustic italian place they maybe want it to be covered with vines or something you know so i don't want to shoehorn y'all in but i do like an outdoor area as part of this especially since we're changing the spirit of the building so I'm going to turn off my mic because I'm talking a lot.

Mr. Chairman, one more clarification on that. Were you all wanting to do that double frontage on the Saginaw Square Boulevard corner?

So because of what we saw where it kind of already wraps around the building and the glass and the facade of the building kind of goes about a third around the building. And I know that that's a proposed. Yes.

I do want just for it to be known that that is not part of the PD, so we cannot hold them to that. So if you wanted to hold them to the frontage, we would just need to note that we want double frontage on that corner, on the corner that's facing the Saginaw Square Boulevard.

I think we already covered that. Saginaw Boulevard?

we did but what she's saying is is because it didn't make the application time like it's not like in this this is what we would approve or deny tonight and so mr chairman we could always add that as an exhibit but unless we specify that within the pd we cannot hold them to that exact thing so we would have to specify because masonry we cannot you know so it's something that we would not be able to hold them to that But we can add that as an exhibit and just add a stipulation that says we would have double frontage in the sense of...

Double frontage on the... Yes. Okay. And since the...

Referring to the glass, the window.

Yes. And would we need to mandate that the double frontage goes at least 40% from the front of the... Or a third of the front of the building? Do you understand what I'm saying? Because if we say double frontage, then that technically means the whole side of the building. Correct? No? Maybe? Do we need to specify the amount of double frontage is what I'm asking?

I think you can, but I think as long as we have that exhibit, we understand that that's the intent.

Okay, got it. Okay, got it. All right. So if anybody has any more questions, do them. Otherwise, oh, did you say what you wanted to say?

Oh, as far as the signage, I think we kind of covered that the window itself, they'll probably put some kind of graphics and that might cover the signage. Rather than an actual front sign, which I think may or may not be allowed by the city anyways, but having that storefront on the side, on the north and south, more than likely businesses will probably put some type of graphics on there. Yeah, they'll want to be visible. Yeah, so you automatically will probably get some kind of signage, maybe not a monument sign on the wall, but T-Mobile or other businesses will put their graphics.

Before you sit down, I have a question for you.

Yes, ma'am.

I've seen two different numbers for the square footage. One was 9,200 square feet, the other one's 8,980 square feet. What is it? 8,900. 8,953.

Yeah, it was kind of reduced from 991, 9200.

To add the outdoor area, probably, the concrete pad. Yeah, because it was enlarged.

I believe it was 89. He'll give you the exact number if you want to stipulate the maximum.

8980.

Okay, thank you.

All right, thank you, sir. Thank you. All right, so now I'm going to close the public hearing portion again at 8.05 PM. And then I'm going to kind of open it up for us to discuss amongst ourselves. And like I was kind of getting at, I think I don't want to beat a dead horse. I'm happy with what was presented. I just would, you know, point out to my colleagues that from what we discussed and what we seem to be on board with, two things would need to be stipulated if there was a motion to approve the PD as was discussed. One of them would be to have the staff attach the rendering scene so that there is double frontage regarding the image shown facing Saginaw Square. The second stipulation would be that exact language to be decided by city staff the concrete patio concrete pad area is kept as part of the PD to be like an outdoor selling area activated play family area slash patio but the exact language would be done by city staff at a later date

Mr German, yes. I think we're going the right way, but just wanted to reiterate. So for the frontage portion we would add the stipulation, the language within the plan development document itself, and then we would attach exhibit A or B to be that frontage one where you all had the double glass, right? So that's one portion of it, but it is added with the language. The second section would be. we have the site plan as is where it has the concrete pad we would probably just on that denote that it has to be in parentheses patio activated amenity and or outdoor sales and we would also reference that within the planned development development document itself as a added stipulation so we would have that in both the exhibit as well as in the language itself

okay got it and then for so i i'm chairman so i can't make a motion so but um i mean i guess because this is going to be a long proposal kind of thing so i guess as noted as noted to the staff

Yes, so what I just mentioned, if y'all are okay with having the patio activated of any and or outdoor cells for the concrete pad and add that language and then denote that we would like to see double frontage on Saginaw Square Boulevard and Saginaw Boulevard on that corner and then adding it to that, you can say that you're proposing to make a motion to approve as stated. Cool.

All right, so I will entertain a motion. Okay. Hey, this is for the folks down in Austin, too. So I've got to make sure we get everything right. Yeah. OK. So unless we have any other questions by any other commission members, which I would totally entertain, do I have a motion?

I make a motion that the consideration and action regarding the textural agreement to the standards and development plan for correct one out of this square plan development be approved with the stipulations as seated.

Awesome. I'll second that. Great.

Mr. Chairman, if we could just have you pass your- Second time tonight.

I'm waiting for it to come up and I missed it. All righty, and the motion passes. All righty, so. Congrats. Thank you. Wish you the best of luck. Alrighty, now we're going to go to section 4A. Yeah, you can stay. Feel free to stay. You might be in the project updates. You don't know. Section 4A project updates.

Yeah, Mr. Chairman, just wanted to really quick run through the more recent ones for the FM 156 and Industrial Boulevard reconstruction. That's not a city project, but our utility inspector is on the loop because it neighbors our city. There's currently no contractor activity because they're still waiting on relocation. of utility lines to continue. Bailey Boswell Professional Center, all public improvements, storm drain water sewer are complete, and contractors still working on infrastructure. For Frontier Settlement, the one just down in the corner of McElroy and Old Decatur, they've begun dirt work and excavation for utility work, and same with Rose City Plaza.

Cool.

Any questions?

What is Rose City Plaza?

So that is a development located at Old Decatur and Saginaw Square, and it is a shopping center.

Oh, so that's what they're calling the Long Strip Center on the south side? No.

Is it Old Decatur and Saginaw Square?

So I think that's where, like, the Ben and Jerry's and the, right? Yeah. I don't think it's.

Okay, got it. All right, cool. And I know, but you're sure that Rose City Plaza is... heard about a Ben and Jerry's I know we're getting we're getting a Baskin Robbins and a Jimmy John's okay so that's on old that's that yep okay so if we're talking about the same one there is a strip center being built at the north side of Saginaw Square and Old Decatur across from the apartments and I've seen from the leasing that it's gonna be a Baskin Robbins Jimmy John's and bunch of other businesses so cool And Frontier Settlement is a single-family home neighborhood getting built here on McElroy and Old Decatur. So great to see lots of dirt turning in the city. Anyone have any questions for the city staff about anything going on in town?

This may not be the right venue to ask, but McElroy East. People drive like drunken sailors trying to miss all the potholes. Is there anything that you know about that's in the works other than a year down the road?

Yeah, to our understanding, it's still, we just had a bond approved last couple of months, so nothing would be able to happen within next, you know, this year, next couple of months, they're designing that phase for road improvements.

Yeah. I did see at the recent city council meeting that the city issued some bonds as part of all that. And part of it was to do the design and all that for McElroy. So they're working on it fast. I mean, so. Yeah.

I will say that on East Industrial, or sorry, on East McElroy and Industrial, we did get tech stop funding so that they were working on that intersection for the potholes, but in terms of just McElroy itself, that's going to be an entire re-phasing of McElroy. I believe that they're going to uh start with east mcelroy but it will be a re-phasing slash expansion so that is in the works but they just got the funding for that so it'll be a long-term process i'd be interested in seeing those plans when they're developed but in the meantime some of those potholders are going to eat some cars

All righty, well, everybody, thanks for y'all's time. Can I entertain a motion if everybody is okay with ending the meeting? Adjournment.

I make a motion to adjourn.

All righty, do I have a second? I second. All right, so. that means we will wrap up this meeting at 8 14 p.m of the saginaw pnc meeting i take it we don't have an executive session oh we don't have one tonight sorry i was like did i skip it i'm so sorry okay i skipped it Yeah, do we want?