City Council - Regular Meeting

But that um is probably not as complicated as Amber has prepared today [clears throat]

what those numbers represent um for the city, so she'll be going over that. Okay. But just to give you an idea, right now the average Roy resident pays about $384 to Roy City for taxes. Um if we went with Weaver Fire, what the tax commission does is it's the same almost the same tax amount to the residents, it just gets shifted from us to Weaver Fire. So, neither side of this is going to come out like this was a great deal and the other one doesn't get any money. It's going to come across with what the fire department costs is approximately what they send to the district. So, what that does is just shift the taxes from Roy City to Weaver Fire. So, what that would do is like on that um just to give an example, there are some rounding area errors with how this works out, so our example, Weaver Fire would now receive $267, Roy City would receive about $119. So, you can see the total amount is approximately the same for the resident within like a dollar, okay? Now, what Weaver Fire has indicated they would do is when this happens, because the taxes are split between the two areas, both those tax rates went down. So, what Weaver Fire has said they would do was they would like to hold their rate the same so that they can still function at the same rate given the service area that they service. So, they would want to increase their rate. What that would do to the residents is now Weaver Fire would have an increase and go up to about $318, and this is annually for an average household. Um Roy City's amount would stay that same at the $119. So, the total for the resident would go up $436 instead of the $384. So, this would be about a $52 a year increase or $4.35 a month, which is uh 13.58%

increase to the residents. If Roy City wanted to keep Roy Fire in Roy City, um we have some costs that we need to uh pay for for the fire department. So, we have a COLA that we just did um a couple weeks ago that the council gave us the go-ahead for. That would be about $124,000 going forward. We need a COLA for next year for about $133. And then we need uh salary adjustments. So, we've talked about how our firefighters are underpaid, so we would need about $675,000 to bring them up to the midpoint for our surrounding cities. So, that doesn't bring them to the top paid areas of the city. We would just shoot for that benchmark midpoint. Uh we also need to increase our capital because we are not putting away enough every year to pay for uh fire apparatus, ambulances, all of the equipment that they need. So, we would need another $465,000 for capital. Putting your total about 1.4 million. Um this would be almost a 28% tax increase for the residents, which is a $170 $107 a year or $8.95 per month. So, to put those two things together in a summary just so you could see the difference. If we went with Weaver Fire District, the estimate that would go to Weaver Fire would be $317.91. Then you have your Roy City amount of $118 for a total of $436. If Roy Fire stayed with Roy City, you have the current amount that they're paying of $384 plus the increase that we need of $107, so that would put the cost to the residents at $491 for the total increase of $107 or $8.95. So, that shows you just the tax implications to the residents between staying with Roy Fire or going to the district. And then we did have a couple questions that um we asked council members to give us any questions that they had so that we could try to answer them beforehand.

These were some of the questions that we had. I think Matt was going to go ahead and answer.

Yeah, and I'll [clears throat] have Chief Williams kind of address some of these, too, but we did talk about a little bit of these in when uh Weaver Fire District came into the presentation at the city council, but talking about res- response times, be assured, they talked about keeping the same stations, um the same personnel. And so, I think that that yes, like that that would be the ultimate goal that they would keep the response times uh you know, relatively the same. Um staff being protected, that was one of the things that they also talked about in that in that meeting is that they wanted to protect the staff and move our staff over to them. Um a lot of these things do go through the negotiation process, right? Like, but these are some of the goals that we've right at face value of ever entering in this conversation. Those were two things that we were very strongly opinionated about is about protecting our staff and response times and things. Um They did indicate that that we would have a member to their board. Um I know other another city when they moved over, they did have another member added to their board. That would require process on their side, but yes, they would want a Roy City member on their board. Um The home- homeowners insurance impacts, it's really um in relation to ISO ratings, and we actually verified this today. We have the same rating as a number three. So, the the insurance rates, everything like that would stay relatively the same, too. Um Monetary compensation, this is a the we had with them early on. It's kind of thought about like as public assets. So, when when we would move over there, if we if

we if we choose to do that, these are all owned by the public. So, there wasn't an expectation of paying for anything. Um but again, that's all part of negotiations with what happens to the building is at least what happens to the land. All that hasn't been discussed at all. Um so, we can have those discussions. But, I'd have to just say like the public Roy City has paid for this one time already. And if we move over to them, it's not fair to have the citizens pay for that again. Um so, it was just thought that a transfer would just be transferred. Um So, I I did address the lease of the building. Um what does the fire the fire department cost? Um I guess it kind of depends. That's the lawyer's answer, but an accountant's answer also. Um 3.5 million to 4 million dollars depending on revenue. Really, when the revenue fluctuates, that it just kind of goes from there. Um it's roughly 3.8 million this year estimated um according to our budgets, but when the actuals come in, that can fluctuate a little bit. So, that was kind of those were the questions that we bought that we received from city council. If you guys have more, we obviously have staff here to try to answer those questions for you. Um but this meeting was meant to put this information out for you um and then to have an open discussion. So, I can turn it back over to the council and the mayor. Do you have any more questions or any comments? Um well, I kind of had a question, but you you said it kind of hasn't been discussed yet, and that's just my question about the parcel of land that's the station station up on 1900 is on. Because isn't that like it's a parcel of land that has the station and like this building. So, is it like you have like cut out part of

it or I like I don't know.

You We could cut it out. The kind of the initial thought was is to secure some way in saying it could be leased to them. Um just so Roy City retains that property in case they don't want to choose to do fire in the future. Um that's a common thing that people would do just to secure it. Um obviously, we don't want them to come in and have to incur the cost of just building a new station though. Because that would just be uh horribly costly to everybody, right? Um but yeah, like if that was a if that was one of the the principles that we wanted to stick by the lease agreement or something like that, that's something we could easily negotiate. And uh are there any liabilities financial liabilities that the that we have with the fire station with fire department that would be assumed by the the district or transferred over to them along with any assets that we would be transferring? That would also be I'm thinking

[clears throat]

when you're talking about that, I'm guessing that would be mainly employee compensation with like accrued benefits primarily. So, yes, there is a liability there. Um that can be negotiated as well. Um initially, there would have to be some type of transition. They I think they would like to see us pay those out or pay pay them for that liability on that side. And also in regards to that, the next step [clears throat] in regards to if they're leasing the the building, do we then assume responsibility for upgrades or that sort of thing? Or I guess that's part of the contract. How did that How would that work? Yeah. All part of the contract. Um typically on a lease or I mean, we're we're under a similar similar situation with the if we were to say we own the ground, you own the building with the complex versus the high school or the school district. You could do something like that or you could do something to say it's just a lease and and that would all be negotiated. Amber, in regards to the information you had of the increased capital that we would need to put aside for the fire department. So, that is really what bumps up the uh expenses. It sounds like it's that capital. How do we account for that? Same capital will be needed if we join the district. I mean, they will still need new fire trucks. It's just that we don't see that money. So, how do we account for that so it really is a little more equal when we're comparing because right now, we're comparing cost of staff plus capital compared to just cost of staff at the district. How can we balance that because when we talk about that dramatic change, I don't know that it covers it. So, we we do save some for fire department capital. We save about 185,000 a year. That was established, I think, in 2005

2007, and that was sufficient at the time. It's considerably gone up as the equipment has cost so much more money. So, to pay for this stuff now, what we're doing is just any leftover money we have for me each year, we just put into that. So, we would be able to we wouldn't have to we wouldn't need that money anymore because right now, we're just using excess money to pay for that. But, we're getting to the point by doing that, we don't have those capital funds available for fixes to the complex, for fixes to this building. So, other areas are suffering because all of those capital needs are being put towards the fire department. Where if we didn't need that, we could use what we are saving and put towards the capital needs that we do have here. The district already has a system in place for when they are replacing vehicles, and they have indicated to us that by keeping their rate the same, they are able to stay on their same structure of money that they need and their replacement schedule. And they did a pretty significant increase that last year that they have said should be good for the next couple years. Now, we don't know for sure what they will do in the future. That's a question nobody knows, but the indication we've got is that they would like to hold the rate, and that is enough to pay for our fire department including the capital. And I do remember them mentioning that another way they pay for capital expenses is they for instance, send their firefighters to other states to fight fires, and some of that money that they negotiate, I guess. I don't know the right word, but comes back to help pay for some of the stuff that they use, I guess. So, I mean, they do have more resources to get capital, I guess, is what I'm saying. So, So, Clarence, do you want I have a question. Do you want to add [clears throat] anything? I I'm sorry. I didn't ask this before. I didn't think of asking this, but I had a resident ask me Can you talk a little bit louder?

Oh, yes. I'm sorry. Had a resident ask me, and I wish you would have thought to ask this sooner cuz it may need to be researched or just looked up. But, a resident asked me how many of the calls that Roy responded to were actually in Roy. I don't know if you happen to know that. I don't have that figure in I mean, off the top of your head, no. I didn't know We ran over I mean, before they took over Hooper and with Haven and Weber, we ran over over 6,000. And we've dropped uh I think we're at this over 5,200 of calls. Um but that that's a a hard question because we do the inner local agreements and automatic aid. So, we go into Weber, Weber comes into Roy. When not busy, Clinton comes in. So, I don't have that figure in front of me. But in any case, with the we are in automatic aid, then we're not mutual the mutual aid.

You're both. So, so automatic goes into the dispatch. So, automatically, if there's a unit not available in Roy, there's a closest unit, which wherever that is. Uh mutual aid is a request of the battalion chief. So, if we get a a large structure fire, we don't have adequate, they can now ask dispatch to send a certain piece of equipment. So, those are both agreements. Automatic again, as it says, is automatic. Built into the dispatch. An agreement within the county. So, we may do some covering, but we also are getting covered. Yeah, it's both. Yeah. This came up when when Dad was here first, and we talked about this my first year or so. But, I don't have any figures in front of me.

I It just came to me, and I was like, oh, maybe I should have asked that for him. But, it sounds like it There's some overlap both ways anyway, so it may just even out. But, we could look into that anyway. I I can maybe send an email. The purpose of that is is each city may be maybe Ogden, maybe Weber can can can respond to each call without needing support. We don't have enough individuals to staff it appropriately uh if we're going to do that. So, for instance, it's very easy, especially if ambulance 33, which is the third ambulance we have, when we can't staff that, which we haven't been able to do very frequently, um if that's not available on a transfer, then the two go on another call. Roy City's less vulnerable if we didn't have those agreements in place. So, it's a way to to back each other up. If not, we would have to pay to have all of that there. So, Sometimes, you know, the numbers for certain things are pretty easy to find, but there are some softer numbers that are definitely difficult. Can you maybe just verbalize what some of those drawbacks, you know, the cons to the to the transfer would be that might not be identified specifically with these numbers. Can you be specific? Yep. Yeah, I mean, like like what are you know, we have the pros, and we have the cons for going. What would be some of the disadvantages with going to the district? Well, I think that's that's a determination for you to just consider as council members. So, I I would ask you this question, what are your goals and expectations for the fire department? Cuz that's really where we need to start. And I think a good question is how did we get here? So, there could be cons, there could be pros, but uh what do you want the fire department to be? Council member, what are

take that as a standard. If we just say, okay, we want top quality service. We want top quality fire service. And if we're trying to look at pros and cons and we're trying to analyze it and we're trying to make a decision, you know, which pro trumps, you know, is completely financial decision that we're making? Is it Are there other components to this decision? So, if we want If we want quality care quality service and we you know, we're willing to pay if it's extra, we're willing for or not, but what are some of the other cons besides that? Let's talk about the pros. Okay. We have struggled since I've been here and really going back um going through my files lately, over 20 plus years of under funding the fire department. And that's that's that's been an issue. I don't think it's a matter I mean, I don't know what the political stuff that's gone on between directors and stuff. I don't think that's been at play. I think the concern has been how do you fund the fire department appropriate to to give it to what your goals are. So, it's your you're saying you want exceptional service. So, where we have failed lately, right? I've We've seen eight to 10 people leave per year in the last 3 years. That seems to be ongoing. When that happens, you have two things that occur. We can't staff it. Um I think I've talked about this. We have injuries. We have people on vacation. We can't appropriately staff the apparatus to respond to the calls. So, the pro I guess of going to Weber, number one, is it meets your expectation of providing exceptional service to the residents. And that is You can say response time to me, it's having the staffing available to respond to the calls. And then having the experience, right? I explained this uh just a minute ago. If you go to the ER, what kind of service do you want? That's an easy one. If you go to a mechanic, what type of service do you want? That's what we're talking about. Now, I've been I'm in charge to say you

want exceptional service, and I'm going to say you'll give me the path to do that. So, that's where we have struggled to do that. Um We really want to be here discussing this if we're appropriately doing it. So, we're here because we haven't been doing that. So, the pros are that's been wet. Number one, it's been my guiding principle not to base my decision or to bring this up based on my emotion. It's we've been charged to go respond to any emergency in the city or whatever that is. That's our responsibility. Two, you've got to have men and women to do it. And they need to have experience. We need to have obviously we recruiting, retaining our employees. And then we have to have that consistency. Um and that's been another I won't say it's a failure, but we haven't done real well on being committed and consistent on that. That creates uncertainty um for professional firefighters who want that certainty, um that has not been provided. So, that is a con. Um I really think the only thing we're losing, right? Is we want to remain Roy. We want to keep our fire department. Um but we haven't been doing that really to where we should be. So, I I can't speak of any cons if we're meeting the expectations. The con is you're losing your fire department that's been here since 1955. So, I can't get into specifics of if we go to Weber, I think they provide a great service. I don't know their deficiencies or I can't speak to that. Um so, I That's a long answer. Probably more than what you wanted. Um but that's kind of where I sit on it. We're here because and I have an obligation to make sure the residents and the firefighters we meet that expectation and we haven't been. So, what's the path forward to do that? And I would say I commit I want to say promise that we'll continually

fund the fire department appropriately to that expectation that you want. It's your fire department. So, I think you brought up a good point in all of that. But when you're going back through the files, back to what the '80s you said, I think. Is that right? Yeah, early late '80s, early '90s, yeah. Um you know, historically we haven't done a great job at it. And I think that we do have to take that into account. Like we do have to realize like if we're going to change this that we can't keep doing the same things that we kept doing like, oh, we're going to fix this and then we're going to drip off and then we're going to or drip off and then we're going to fix it off, fix and drip off. And that's kind of what's been happening for it feels like decades. And so, um and I feel like that's not fair to residents, it's not fair to employees um because it does put us on a roller coaster instead of, you know, a steady course or whatever. And so, I I do think that we do have to take our history into account because in reality, a city council can only promise things for 2 years because your city council changes every 2 years. Like I can say, oh, I'm here 4 years and I promise I'll do this, but I'm one vote. Does that make sense? Like And so, I do think we do have to take that into account when we're making this decision. Like we can have the best intentions and want to do the best things, but in 2 years someone else may have a different idea. And it's not that to say that their idea is wrong or bad, but it will that could be different. And um so, we can promise something for 2 years, but that's the extent we can really truly promise something else a council. So, I think like I like that you brought up the history of it. I think that's important to think about when we're thinking about this. Like cuz I think that every decision we make we have to think of the future. We have

to think like not just 5 years in the future, but 20 years in the future. Um so, I do think that's important. I did want to go back to your first slide, too. I did have a question about the fifth when you brought up Sorry, maybe not the first ones. It was the ones that had the $52.19 among the Yeah, so Okay, so that was if we went to Weber Fire. Is that correct? Okay. And so, and that did that only include Okay, so if we went to Weber Fire, the stay one. So, Weber Fire pays how much more percent like than we do per firefighters? I'm just What is it? Like up

Well, when they when they presented like we estimate we're approximately 14, 15% below, but we only try to hit that mid benchmark. Districts typically pay higher and they estimated I believe it that they were 22% below. Okay, so that's So, this would increase them up to theirs. The amounts I'm giving you would only increase them up to the mid for the rest of the cities cuz that's who we benchmark against is the cities nearby. Okay, so the our So, the 10741 that was with we stay, that is just to clarify that does include the capital expenses as well and that only to median wage, not higher. Okay, just clarifying to make sure I understand.

Medium for surrounding cities that have fire departments. I think the reason why we wanted to show this assumption is because we want to compare apples to apples. If we're saying that they're, you know, because some of these things haven't happened. The 27 the 27 cola, the salary adjustments, the capital. None of those decisions have been made right now. But when we're comparing these, you know, district city, we wanted to create an even playing field with that. And that's why we're we're adding that into that. Now, obviously if you were to drop those things off, that amount that we're paying today is a lot less, obviously. Okay, I I just wanted to clarify that I understood it. Like I'm just saying. I think one of the issues with us as a city council is that we want to we don't want to make we're we're scared to make decisions because sometimes we don't feel like we have all the information, but I also don't want to don't want to be in a position where I'm It seems like a simple answer to me. And I've been given this information. It looks pretty plain to me that going to the Weber Fire District, it's going to be saving the taxpayers' money. It's going to fix the problem with the pay for the fire department as well.

[clears throat]

Um From what I've heard from residents or any other thing around, there's not really a whole lot of downside or any downside that I that has anybody's been able to bring to me that has had enough weight to it to make me think that keeping the fire department within Roy is more benefit to our taxpayers or to us than than going with the fire district. So, I mean, as of right now, as far as I'm concerned, I mean, unless we can somebody can give me a a really good um reason why that's other than the sentiment of of the many, many years that Roy has been here in the in the history behind the fire department being in Roy, I'm not seeing a downside with going to Weber County. That's What's hard for me is is I don't want to advocate it, but I also know the reality of it. And the history in the past is what's led me here to take my emotion out of it and prove purely do what's best for the residents and employees. Um, someone who has struggled with the pay and wages where I worked before, it's it's hit me in my retirement big time. And And my goal is to hit the the check mark, keep the service levels, and I truly believe we were fire, especially letting you ask, we can do that. I I have no doubt. And I can say that confidently. I want to take care of the firefighters and employees. That's what matters and and the residents support. Purely that is the driving force behind this. And if it helps the taxpayers, and if it helps the other departments to sustain the the city because we don't have a crystal ball, what's the future hold? I would like you to commit and promise me and to to to keep the wages up, but I think we're here because they couldn't before, and I don't want to be disrespectful to the past council or mayors or city. I don't know, I wasn't there. But the history shows somehow we haven't. And it's led us into a larger gap being concerned.

[clears throat] The fact is, fundamentally we can't I In my opinion, um, I don't know how we're going to fund the fire department in the future if we want to keep the exceptional service. I can't promise you that when over 7/8 of my department is under 5 years. And I'm losing people now losing the experience. So I would love to keep it Roy. I want to make that clear. I want these guys we have something amazing here. But can we meet those two objectives? And I don't know if we can looking at the future. And that's my only concern as well about the whole thing is it's it hasn't been fixed for a very long time and and it's not for a lack of trying with the pri- pre- previous council, either. And it just seemed like it was the indecision decision like just too much information and not wanting to make the decision to be scared of what the future holds making holding us hostage about making a a good decision that's going to benefit everybody all around. For me, just seeing the numbers I've been given, I don't see the downside. I I really don't. I I think it If I'm only going to be here for 2 years, I want to make an impact while I'm here. And I don't think this is a negative. I don't have the feeling. I do have the fear that I don't know that I I I don't have a crystal ball. I don't know what the future holds for this. And I don't know the final numbers of how it how it's going to equal out, but basically from everything I've been told, I'm currently on the side of of going with the Weber Fire District. And I I'll go ahead. Oh, just to be fair, I as when we had the the presentation from Chief Brent Clark, I asked him some questions that were kind of probing for um any possible downsides. You know, I asked about response time. I've asked about the stations we have and where they're located, how many calls they had taken, and that kind of thing. And And uh

and he he came out and said, "Yeah, well, I mean, the response time would be pretty similar. You know, you have a great department. You know, you have you don't have a a morale problem. You know, everyone they're happy here. You don't have a culture problem." Um and they they have exceptional service, and he told said that to us about our department. Um but he uh he said that the fire district can even often offer um some other things in the way of equipment and training that they do um that we haven't been able to fund for our department even. So, we might even see improved service in in those kinds of regards simply because they have access to more resources and not because of who works for us cuz you know we have incredible people working for us. But um just as I was asking him a few questions, you know, like that, um he talked about the number of calls. As I recall, they had they had I better not say that cuz I'm not for sure. But uh but they are I I don't know. I just I just recall after that presentation feeling pretty confident that um the service that we would see would would be very comparable to what we have now. It'd be excellent service provided that it was fully staffed and everything, you know. Yeah, you have to reach out to the other cities. I mean, that's that's going to be your proof. Are they providing a good service to the other areas in the county? Sure. And he did say that Roy would be the largest city. So, I mean, you know, doubling their their their uh jurisdiction may have something but I mean, even when I asked him about that, he said like it really shouldn't be an issue cuz you're going to have you're going to have um the stations that are probably going to be stay where they are and and they're going to good, you know, locality for our our city and things. And just sounded like it was really going to be a pretty smooth transition when we very first heard from him. And now we've got more information here and and I I don't have a lot of reservations. I did do a little bit more research. I don't know if now is the time to talk about other Yeah. I mean, potential options as I told everyone I was committed to looking

into all the different things. Um and I called up uh Chief Crezee in Plain City and just asked him because he has a part volunteer department and part part-time paid and then a kind of part-time is part of them is volunteer. And uh they've got 8,500 residents in 12 square miles. So, how many we got? 30, 40,000? Almost 40,000. Not 8,500. Yeah. So, not 8,500. And uh and he doesn't have a fully, you know, volunteer staff any anymore. He does have some paid um people now. Um and he was he was up front and told me, "Yeah, because they're volunteer, many of them will start their careers here and then they'll go to other places." And so, um they have, you know, lower experience than we would have traditionally here at Roy because and he's like, "Yeah, and that's kind of how we are and that's okay with us, you know, the size of our city and and the number residents that we have." It works for them. Um and it while as he was talking, it didn't sound like it would work for us because we have so many many many more people. Um and and it just it didn't sound like a good fit, but uh I got some more info on that. And so, what I'd love to do is get this information and information I've gotten. And there was even some chatter years ago about a southern district, which didn't sound like that we it was a good option, either. But I feel like all these options are important to present to the public so that when we feel like we've made a decision that we can show, you know, we can show we've made an informed decision and we can have public input input at that point as well. And um because what Chief I mean, why do we even talk after him? What he said is just perfect. Um it's just all the reasons why um why we haven't been able to deliver fire service and why it's not working and and and um through, you know, no fault of of the chief or his or his staff. Um but just what do we want, you know? And I think that's a question we need to reflect back on the residents is like,

"What do you want?" Um and then we can we can go forward and decide to make that happen. So, um just that was just another thing that I looked into because I knew that that was a was an was a was a possibility. You can do a volunteer fire department. And as I looked into it, it just didn't sound like it fits our city, but Yeah. I'm glad you brought it was back in the day. Yes, he did say that. It Yeah, it was that way. It did. So, how do your how do your um firemen feel about this? So, if we brought them uh you know, as far as we can, but it still wouldn't be at the level that the Weber Fire District I mean, would they still want to stay with Roy Fire?

Every every one of them say, "I'd like to stay at Roy." But, you know, it's a mix. I I have to when I I've told them this and explained it, um each everybody who has a child, I would expect you to love each of them equally. You may like them differently, Right.

but to love them equally. And as I've looked at this, this is hard for me. I have to look at the brand new kid coming in, and he's on a tier two system, has to stay longer now. Where is he going to be raising his family, his kids? We typically I know a lot of people work two to three jobs. The job already itself is hard on a family and relationships. Um so when I look at that, which one do you like more? I I I love them all. So, I got to find the best solution for all of them. Um and I can speak to this. Typically, if you're paid really well, you're a happy employee, and that customer service comes across to the residents. I don't know anyone who doesn't like to be paid what they should be within the market. That's really all that they have asked over time is to keep it consistent. So, each of them will say, "Well, given the choice, I don't want to go." And I can't speak for them, but I I think I'm speaking I've heard enough, we don't want to go. Um however, the pay is so drastic now, it's it's huge. They're They can't afford to to work here. Um and so, that's obviously the data shows how many we're losing. Um so, the next thing we're if we don't if we want to keep it, what can we do? What can you commit to? And history has shown we haven't been able to do that. And so, so to them, I would think every one of them would say, "I want to be paid more." Cuz it's directly going to affect when someday they get to my point. I don't know anybody who says, "I don't want to get paid more." And so, and and to say to put a different patch on a uniform, no, it's it's sad. It's it's not going to be easy for them. But I know I can make the decision that when they retire, maybe they think me one day to say, "Hey, my family, my kids all benefit." For instance, retirement. Um insurance, everything is going up.

And so, when I look at it, I could not invest in my 457 because I wasn't making enough money. I was trying to survive. They now maybe have that opportunity where where I can maybe invest into a retirement a different one a 457 or a Roth. I have the ability to say when I retire, I can do that. Now, everything affects them and their families and their little kids. So, when I make this decision, I I seem to go down a rabbit hole. But again, I look at everybody and I don't know any one of them who won't appreciate getting paid more, having more opportunities. I I just don't see if Roy can't do that, then I'm I'm forced to a corner to say, and that's why we're here today. Um, I don't need to to be here longer to come up with a decision that what needs to be done and to wait it out. Um, I don't think I'm I'm doing my job. So, my job is to find a solution. These are the solutions that I've come up with. I just want to make one add. Sorry. Okay, it's okay. Go ahead. One more in addition what my support for going to the fire district is is I'm not I know I'm not making the decision here alone cuz we got to have resident input too. We're going to be having open house and and a lot of input from the residents. They're ultimately the ones going to tell us what they want. And so, right now I think that this is just supporting us saying, "Hey, let's move forward with bringing this to the public and letting them see the information we have." So, I'm I'm for pushing this process forward to bring it to the public. If some were there might be more information that comes up from the public that that might actually change the weight of maybe the decision to do that. So, but as of right now let's That's what I'm amending my statement to. I'm not making the decision.

It's a discussion. It's It's going to be It's Also, um, since we're talking about this, um, Janelle was going to talk next, but since we're on the fire subject, Diane, did you want to give your talk about what the tax rate would have to be in order to Do we want to Do we want to talk about that? You guys, that's the next discussion item. Can I maybe jump in and ask just another question? Um, and I I've asked this otherwise, but I understand that a few years ago, and I don't know if a few means 15 or 20 years ago, we were fire district was in the same position we are now. They couldn't pay They couldn't get capital for their equipment. They couldn't pay for their staff. You know, do you know if we're trying to figure out what that problem was? Why were they having that same problem and why aren't they now? And do you know that information? Do you know that? I I I've I've worked here where we were fire working in Ogden City too. So, I I don't know. I think Britney's answered that question of knowing the history. But I think fundamentally they they weren't funding it properly and then something changed, right? Whether it's board members and they decided this is the expectation and this is what we want, it has to be a properly funded fire department. It's expensive. It just is. And and so is police. It's just very expensive. And so, I think that's the challenge you guys are up against is fundamentally the culture has been, and I don't want to say this disrespectfully, like crisis mode. Let's wait till the wheels fall off, then we fix it. That's what's being done with all the departments and I don't mean that negatively to any of the work that they've done. I'm just giving a kind of a broad painting a picture of what I believe has happened. And so, at some point they made a decision, "No, this is what we want for our residents and they have to be willing to pay for it." And and that's kind of where I accept

now the gap with us has grown so large, it's exponential the tax increase just for the fire department to get us to the middle. Let alone what police, public works, and parks and everyone deserves to be in the market like we are. And fortunately, we do have somewhat of a very viable solution to hit the check box. So, I think that's a question that needs to Britney's answer, Chief Clark. I just don't have it. I think maybe this can help a little bit too. From his presentation, he said that uh comparing all the fire districts across the Wasatch Front, they decided they're going to stay in the top two-thirds of that area. So, every year they make an adjustment or they look at it again to stay in the top two-thirds. So, I don't know if it sounds like if they were in such a position as we are now back then, um, we're not even close to two-thirds of nothing. Like we're so far below median, that's not even in the conversation, but they are already so far up ahead and they're probably not going to fall down that low because they're not just to the median. They're like in the top two-thirds. So, if they have to kind of um, go up and down within that two-thirds, that makes sense to me. Anyway, I don't know if that helps, but I took that note from his presentation back in February. Yeah, and I don't know if this is I just heard this, so I could be wrong. I'm spreading rumors. Um, but that was like a good 20 years ago. I don't know if that's factual, so don't take it as fact. I'm saying if it has been 20 years and they've kept up the whole time, then I think that they've probably solved

looking for some information. I just wanted to know if if what I'd heard is accurate or what you knew, but I I can say when Chief Sullivan came from Arizona, he had a vision. I think [clears throat] that's the head goals and that's what he put forth is with the size of the county and the needs it has. It's all matters today. I I worked in the valley as a medic. They did that Ogden City. They contracted Ogden City. A leader came in and decided that the district needs to grow wider needs to to grow with the size of the inflation with the growth around us and to provide that service. And so, there was just a commitment um to saying again, changing the vision and the expectations, this is what we need to do and they worked on that. What you're finding is to me and you compare us to say South Ogden. They've been doing a TNT for I don't know years. And they say when the fire department drops, we do the wage study, we increase we we just fundamentally we do this when we need to with all the different departments. We're behind that. We just barely approved the TNT truth in taxation last year, right? So, I just think again, we haven't kept up with where we should for whatever reason. I don't want to be disre- disrespectful to the past mayors or councils or city managers. I I think that's inappropriate. I don't know exactly why. I don't know the circumstances. But that's that's my guess is they decided it was a decision. And the board made decisions to properly fund their fire department. Thank you. Does this mean you want to move into the wage discussion the wage committee discussion or Well, Pam, Janelle, you want to move into the wage discussion?

Sure. So, we've been meeting for what maybe since the end of January 1st February every Monday, me and Janelle and Diane and Matt and then Amber and me, Brody and Natalie um, trying to figure out wages um keep our employees here. And um, Janelle is going to take over that discussion. Oh, thanks. Um, mostly going to read this because I didn't want to leave out any parts. Uh, so as part of our ongoing commitment to fiscal responsibility and employee retention, the wage survey committee recently completed a comprehensive wage study. As I talk about this, I will welcome clarification when we are finished by any other committee member in case I represent something incorrectly. Um, as part of this study, we wanted to determine if our current pay structure was still the best fit for Roy City or if a different system would serve us better. Um, so first we evaluated the system. We looked at several different pay models and compared our current system to those used in other cities. After weighing the pros and cons of changing to a different system with the goal to being to maintain good employees and provide good service to our residents, we determined that the system itself isn't the issue that needs addressed. Our primary challenge is much simpler, keeping pace with a highly competitive job market and the rising cost of living. We found that our current system remains generally effective and significant costs remains generally effective, but that it would cost significant amounts to overhaul it. And our money would be better spent directly on our employees' wages and this would better serve our taxpayers and employees.

And it's not to say that change couldn't happen in the future to our system, but when looking at the different models, they would all rely on the same issue we have right now and that is keeping up with wages. Um, so we also requested some data on how we pay our employees specifically looking at the balance between our general fund and our enterprise funds like water and sewer. For instance, public works gets paid out of both, um, depending on the job. So, we explored whether shifting expenses between these funds could provide relief. Um, my conclusion, at least after seeing reviewing that, is that Roy City already is utilizing these funds in a very efficient and appropriate manner. Um, there aren't any hidden efficiencies to unlock there. Um, we already run lean and effective in our fund management. Um The path forward, I think or what we've kind of talked about was that um we shifted Once we discovered those things, we shifted our primary focus to closing the wage gap, so um So, that was the main focus of it, but I do want to also mention that part of that was keeping up with capital costs as well, not just addressing the wage gap, but the wage gap kind of the glaring thing, but our capital costs do affect that in the future as well. Um So, we decided we need to ensure that Roy City remains a place where talented people want to work and can afford to stay. Some turnover is expected, but the amount of turnover we have been experiencing the last 3 to 5 years isn't sustainable or safe for our residents or our infrastructure. To explain the specific strategy we've developed to reach those competitive market rates, I'll turn the time to Diane, but I just want to finish real fast as um And Diane will walk us through a wage scale that we came up with um

well, really Amber we can give the credit. She's the genius behind it cuz but um but the we all thought would be the best option. And um I just wanted to do a reminder as well that this like this is a discussion. We're not making a decision tonight on any particular amount or anything like that, but we want to start the process of um educating ourselves as a a council as a whole so that we can make the best decision for our community and um obviously questions and ideas for all the council members and the public and staff or whatever are welcome. So, I'll turn the time to Diane. Maybe explaining the wage scale we decided. Okay, maybe I'll just write on that cool board up there and then um Amber can kind of uh yeah. Our cool stuff officially, right? So, we can see it. I think some of the key points that I thought were very interesting just so we can just remember for for a wage correction each 1% equals approximately $175,000. So, I think these are just some interesting points that I want you to be able to think about and look at. When we talk about a 2.5% that's not a 2.5% tax increase. A 2.5% COLA is approximately

[clears throat]

$450,000 which is approximately a 9% tax increase. So, sometimes those numbers get a little bit mixed up. We talk about 2.5 and we kind of start thinking it's 9% and that gets a little bit uh a mixed up. So, the COLA that we just approved requires a 9% tax increase. If we talk about 27 year 27 that COLA is going to be possibly a little bit different about 2.8% and so that's going to end up being approximately a 10% tax increase. This is just for COLAs, okay? Now, if we talk about full wage adjustment if we talk about and remember what full wage adjustment is for us. That's median. That's not top. This is median. So, if we talk about full let's call median wage adjustment then that's going to be about $1.8 million and that's going to be a 30% 36% tax increase. Now, there is a really important concept of how we could do this differently. But one of the things I want you to realize is last year we had proposed a 28% tax increase and I hate to even use the numbers because 28% really means so very little when it talks about reality. But with that, what we were going to do is we were only going to be able to get to half. Half a median wage. We were only going to be able to get half. And now this year we were going to make

it the full way, right? Well, now here we are behind that full amount. And so, we've got ourselves, you know, in in another bind in another pickle. So, if we don't do the full median amount and this is going to be the cool information that Amber's going to show us better, we're still now just putting ourselves that much further behind. And as I've talked to many different people, I guess the concept is do we just kind of sneakily try to make up the difference or do we just go for it, rip off the bandage so we can move forward because one of the most important comments I've heard is it feels like we can't do anything as a city. We can't do anything as a city until we can finally get our wages up to median level. I mean, we're talking about paying our employees just fair. We're not saying overboard. We're just saying let's have fair payment. Are we being fair to our citizens when we're not fair to our staff? I don't believe that to be the case. When we're talking about being fair, it has to be on both sides of things. So, I can write up some more things here. I don't know that I even need to because Amber's probably going to be talking about that or uh do you have a a slide for that? But anyway, so if we weren't going to do the full amount, there are some different ways of doing it. When we talked about it last year you know, it probably wasn't the most effective way, but if we talk about if we take full median wage as the goal and if for some reason we wanted to go less, how would we go less? How could we do that in a way that would be as fair as possible and this would probably be the best segue for you, right Amber to to be able to see this. And so, this just gives us an idea of a way we could do it to at least be as fair as possible

if we chose to still stay, you know, kicking the can down the road if we still think we're not going to, you know, try to get up to that median wage and so, Amber will kind of do that for us. Can I interject just a question unless you're going to answer this? And if so, that's fine, but I feel like maybe I'm a little behind. How is it that we 28% last year would have brought us halfway to median, but full median wage correction is not 56%? Why is it 36%? Oh, it's because we're talking about the COLA. So, if we would have taken 30 36% plus 9% that gets us closer, but um that's and that was and last year's numbers might be just a little tiny bit different, but because we're talking about um what the whole COLA would be in addition to that.

36 and 10 and 9 is about what I just found out. Is that what it is? Yes. So, last year also they elected to when it was voted upon, they reduced the COLA amount in order to put more towards the wage adjustments. So, when we just did the COLA because we couldn't do the wage adjustments, we did the higher COLA instead of the lower one. So, there is some adjustment there on that. So, this slide is um what she was writing up on the board pretty much. So, we have the COLA that we just barely did um that is going to cost the city next year for about 450,000 and we would like to do another one for this next year and then do the wage adjustments on top of that so that we make sure we are still current because our wage adjustments were our salary survey was done about 2 years ago. So, this should keep us pretty current. Um So, your total there of 2.7 million, that is about a 55.7% tax increase. So, that's $214 a year for the average household or 1784 per month. Um just kind of put that in perspective without the fire department so you can see how much the fire department does cost the city. That would reduce that um down to 1.8 million without fire and that would be about a 37% is what we'd need to fix the rest of the city without the fire department. So, I know that's a large amount for 1 year, so we were trying to brainstorm some ideas of how we could um I know we had previously talked about doing a multi-year process to fix this problem and so, one idea that we came up with was um we still want to do the COLA for all employees, so that would go across to everybody, but for the wage adjustments, we have some employees um not employees, but positions in the city that are only 3% below median. We have other positions that are upwards 20 25% below median, which that is typically where we are losing most of our employees is in those ones that are more off. So, in order to

kind of adjust that, we would like to even that out a little bit. So, what we could look at is whatever amount you're like comfortable I think we should do this amount of a tax increase this year, we could do this amount the next year, whatever you guys want to do, I could tell you how much that would buy. So, if you wanted to make let's say we have a 10% benchmark. We want to get everybody to at least 10% below median. We want to be right at median, but if we just shoot for 10%, right? So, if you are currently 3% below, you would not receive a wage adjustment. You would still receive the COLA, but not the wage adjustment. If you were 15% off, you would receive a 5% bump. So, what it's instead of these large disparities, it kind of evens everyone out and it puts the money where we most need it, to the positions that are more off. So, somebody that is 25% off is going to get the bulk of that money that you give us and somebody that's closer, they wouldn't receive any of that. But, everyone would at least receive a cola. So, so that we're not falling further behind. Can you talk about the capital because we're so far behind on capital? Cuz this is without capital, right?

capital. So, this is kind of um the total impact to the residents between the previous discussion and this discussion here. So, if we went with Weber Fire District, um you'd have what we estimate Weber Fire would increase. So, the increase to the residents would be that 13%. Roy City's increase for the wages on the previous page would be that 37% because we wouldn't need that increase in capital. Um the need right now would go towards fire. What we are currently saving for fire, we could use to go towards capital that we need at the city. So, we would only need the increase for the wages, we wouldn't need to increase for capital. If Roy Fire stayed with Roy City, we would need the salary increases. We would also need the fire capital, which puts you at an increase of about 65% and when you brought up the need for capital other places in the city, one thing I thought of is this does fire capital, but then we we still aren't saving for anything else. So, eventually we would need to start we need to put build that into the budget too to start saving for parks and recreation, for the aquatic center, for the complex so that we don't run into another situation where the complex gets closed and we have to renovate the entire thing in one year. We need to build a reasonable amount into every year so that we can keep up on expenses. So, this does not include that. But, this is kind of a summary of the two discussions. Do you have an example of what the tax increase would be if we were like 5% below median? And if not, I will just draw up there on the board. If you have it cuz otherwise I'd have to stop sharing my screen to find it.

[clears throat] So, that particular idea of if we were going to do it partial, so say we went 5% below median. That would cost about 1.1 million and that would be a 21% tax increase. I mean, [clears throat]

and still 5% off is still not really ideal because it remember we're only at median, so that's not really good. Now, we've got 8%. Say we went 8% below and that's $800,000. And that puts us at 16% tax increase and that means we are still 10% 8% off median wage. And just remember if we do pop the capital fund and she's kind of got it up there, but if it changes, the capital funds just for that one area is approximately $450,000. And again, remember $450,000 is 9% tax increase. So, you can just kind of remember that when you're taking a look at what those differences would be. And then and remember if whatever we're going to do, then you would add these up, right? You know, you'd add that up to be 19%. And if you wanted that with the full amount, then you'd add that together, which gives us the other numbers and and down the road. And then capital, you'd have to add those numbers up. So, it's kind of a a menu, right? You just pick and choose what you're going to do on your menu on how you're going to um help this problem. I think that's a good thing like this is legitimately how bad it is. So, people need to So, every week when we look at this, we're like, "Oh, Lord." I do think in the past we have been scared to show you the real reality and I think it's a good thing to put it out there and say this is where it's at even if you don't elect to do the full thing. I think it's important to show you what it should be.

And again, reminding everyone this is the median. This isn't like high wages, this is like she said fair wages and it does feel like it's very difficult. You know, we get requests from residents, "Why don't we do this? Why don't we do that?" Well, it feels like we can't do those things until this is fixed. Does that make sense? Like it feels like we're a little bit held hostage by this situation that we've I guess essentially as a city put ourselves in. So, it just Yeah, so this is just this was a way that we came up with that we felt like at least would let us see and help the public also see what where the money's going and what it like what percentage each amount means and what it does. So, um yeah. So, what I thought I'd do for tax, you know, what we could do is if we did do Apparently blue is the color. All right, let's do this blue. If we by chance, you know, wanted to say how much would that be if we do a 55% tax increase, that would be Did you you have um anyway, that would be about $17.84 per month for the average home. If we do 65%, that would be 2104. And if you did a 37% tax increase, then that would be 1189. Just so it gives you an idea what that does, what those percentages equate to per month uh on expenses and stuff like that.

So, and I think it goes back to also not just what the council wants, but like what you were saying with fire like it depends what does the city in general and that includes your our citizens obviously. Do we want do we want to fix this problem? Or do we just want to keep kicking the can down the You know what I mean like So, it goes back to making a plan. Right. Yeah. And that's I think maybe how we got here. There wasn't the plan. Yeah. And maybe it what and maybe in the past we haven't communicated as well as we should have and hopefully we can this time. I mean, I think everyone on the council is committed to trying to communicate this situation better. So, hopefully that will help residents, you know, understand it, but also sometimes they have great ideas that they have and so if they understand the actual situation, then maybe they have some ideas too, but um yeah, I just think like you said, knowing what the actual numbers are will help us better decide what we want and what plan we want to follow, I guess. So. I think what's important is there's no money tree. Right. So, if you had the money, this isn't a problem. Right. Right? So, either the sales tax got to increase or you got to generate the money. You got to generate the money because we don't have it through this means. Right. And that's where we're at. I think when we talk about sales taxes, yes, that definitely helps, but it's also not consistent like property taxes. So, that's what's hard when the majority of your money is going to fire and police, you know, public safety, then and they need that stability. That's what property tax you know, tax property tax gives that stability. And because we are required to do certain things in fire and police and I mean, there's other departments as well like economic development, planning. There are certain requirements that the state requires. We can't just not do certain

things and same for infrastructure. I mean, there are definitely like they have to follow the laws and the rules and the regulations and so we can't just not do certain things and um anyway, so it does require steady stream to some extent like sales tax only plays into that to some degree. So, anyway, I wish that we had a money tree though, that'd be nice. The way I see this too is that uh you know how you sign up for internet and you get a you know, a promotional rate and you're like, "I paid 10 bucks a month for internet." And then your promotional time goes away and you have to now pay $100 a month or whatever and you're you know, some people get upset like, "Oh, well now I have to pay more." It's like, "Actually, you were getting a discount the whole time. This is what it actually costs." And so, that's the way I'm looking at it. It's like all this time residents have been getting away with not paying for services and those services are starting to fail us because we're not paying for them. And so, like it just it's not a way to treat employees, it's not a way to treat residents is just to expect that we can pay a promotional rate forever cuz the company's not going to give that to you either. They'll just be like, "Go somewhere else." You know, and and that's what's exactly happening to us. People are just going somewhere else because we won't have for it. And that's why I'm looking at it is yes, it's a it's a it's a big increases if you want to talk percentages and and and then just just a a note on these percentages that I think many people just look at it and go oh, 65% of my income. It's like that's not what it is. It's just 65% of what the current thing is. And if the current thing is not up to snuff, then you're going to have a large percentage of that current rate, which is just not cutting it. So, I'm looking at it as the end of a well a very overstayed welcome of a promotional rate that we're getting for services and that we it's time to start paying what they're worth because they are because they're they're coming up short, right? I don't know if I've already said

this, but like in just terms of the fire department when they had to close the station um in December and it just happened that I I witnessed, you know, somebody having to um call the fire department in my cul-de-sac and it was fortunate for me it wasn't someone that I knew well, but it was still gave me an opportunity to see the response time from the station on 1900 and I'm like the furthest south and west that you can get in Roy City and it took like 8 minutes. And it was it was like like I got to see that happen. It's like that is exactly what's happening. Not just in fire, but everything [clears throat] else. If you want roads plowed, if you want garbage picked up, you want all this stuff happen, like you have to pay for it. And this is just it's just this whole promotional deal is just it's over and it looks like a lot, but the reality is we've just kind of been getting away with paying you know, peanuts for this for the services and it just it just can't continue. And what about everybody else that has a job outside of the city and if, you know, if your wife or your husband come home and they have the same dilemma, I mean, if you work hard and deserve a fair wage, I mean it goes with any job. It's like, well, you fought for you, you know, to get a raise because you felt you were worth it, so why shouldn't we pay our residents to keep them here? So, it's the same in any job, so I just feel that we've got a lot of information here tonight and I'm glad that I was scared to get it out. I think all of us were every time we talk about it in a meeting, we were like, uh it's scary. Those are scary numbers, but I like how you break break it down per month. I mean, people have to realize all of us here on this council, we have to pay these taxes, too. And so, it's for all of us and um it's

it's we got to figure out what kind of employees we want, what kind of service we want and like Alexa said, you know, we we we have so many employees that are leaving to go to other cities who pay better. We're the training ground for so many departments. And the people like to stay here cuz it's such a love of Roy and they want to stay here, but if they can get paid so much more an hour I mean, I would have told my husband, "Sorry, honey, I don't care how much you love Roy, you're going to go where the money is." I mean and I just feel that uh I don't know how we got it to this place, neither and but we've got to do something to bring them up to medium like we said, this isn't even like, "Wow, I'm getting paid more than I am in the city." This is just like medium. So, I think this has been a good start to get this discussion out. We're not making any decisions tonight. Um we just wanted to talk about the Weaver fire and talk about the wages and um any you guys have any more comments that you wanted to Amber, were you going to say something? I thought you were going to correct me. I wasn't going to correct you. I was just going to say when you talk about the percentage, please keep in mind, too, that that's not a percentage of their total tax bill. I think that needs to be communicated to the residents. So, when they receive their tax bill, it's probably a couple thousand dollars and right now, it's the 384 is how much comes to Roy City. So, the percentage is based off just that piece that they're paying to Roy City. It's not 65% of their total tax bill cuz I think when they hear, I mean, that's a lot. You're going to increase my my taxes 50%, but it's only our portion. I think that's important to get communicated to the residents.

This is the amount that on the average house comes to Roy City is $385. Any more comments? Anybody wanting to say anything else or are we ready to adjourn and So, I did have a question. So, it sounds like from what people were saying that we do want to move forward with exploring more of moving the Weaver fire. Like we're not just cutting it off and saying don't do it. That's that's what it sounded like to me. I just want to is so is that I mean, did you guys feel like that was telling you to move forward and okay, to discuss more about that. Yeah. Hey, I just wanted to make sure that you guys were feeling the same as Do we feel like we're ready for open houses and whatever other public input settings on both of these topics? I think that's the next step. I know we need to. I'm not sure we're ready, but I know we need to, but like is that the next thing? Yeah. Cuz we kind of have all the options.

have a whole lot of I mean, we have time, but we don't have a lot of time meetings meeting wise. How many meetings we have? So, yeah, we need to push it.

Yeah. Right, cuz we have to make a decision on Weaver fire by June. Yeah, June. That's I mean, that's I can just suggest I would say that we send out an email and maybe get some dates for the first part of May to either do a Yeah. in coordination with city council meeting or find us time for a special meeting and coordinate that and we can just do that. Find a time when it works for the council members and we can cuz I do think you have to give plenty of notice to get the public there. So Yeah. And we do want them there. Um would you recommend different different uh like separate I'm sorry. The open houses or town halls per each issue or I I mean, they're kind of separate. Yeah, and they're kind of together.

[laughter] Mhm. Yeah. They are. [clears throat] This is like a And we have Weaver fire district there to answer questions. Didn't you say you wanted to have them there?

you guys want, I'm sure they'd be happy to do it. Let's have them there. If we can do that. So, then I know we've talked about two different styles of doing it, so I don't know if we want to do more open house style and and then do another one that's more or someone else suggested we do maybe start as like a formal presentation type one and then move into open house or vice versa. So, I guess that's another decision we have to make cuz I I do think like to me it would make more sense to do a presentation first so that people know what's out there and then they can form questions to ask later in the open house style, but I don't know. That's just Yeah, I mean, I guess we can discuss that. Yeah, you guys still have to decide that now unless you all agree, but I just more I'm like, when's the date? Like I I want to you know me, I got to have all plan so we don't just be like, someday we'll have a Well, you guys can pick a date now if you want. Well, I don't have a good time. I don't have my calendar with me. But we just need to respond to you quickly. Yeah, we can get an email out tomorrow and then just watch for it and then we can if you can all respond. We're still thinking about it. Any more comments? Any more Anything anybody wants to say? Brian, we need to get a feeling for you over there.

[laughter]

I'm trying to be quiet. It's a lot. I I was thinking as we're talking about the town hall interaction type thing, you know, what are we hoping to accomplish and how will we get the feeling or the information from the citizens? If we have personal interaction, that might be you know, that's good. They can ask questions individually, but it might be more difficult for us to get a feel or have everybody else hear what the general feeling is because it will all be so interpersonal. They're going to have to talk to the fire district people and us. And then at some point in time if you have the traditional town hall setting, then they come up to the microphone, then everyone can hear, we can hear what they're saying and we can kind of get a feel for it. So, I think both have great merits. How do we do it so we know what the end result is because we don't want to do it just because it's nice. We also need an end result, which is information. I felt like in one meeting we talked about like a questionnaire at the open house, but maybe I'm just maybe I'm imagining that in my head, but just like so when they come and leave, they can leave questions or we can ask preference like do you think just overall is that better to move to, you know, Weaver fire? Whatever the question wants to be. That's not a great question. I'm just saying like we could come up with a couple questions of short questionnaire.

can have flyers with all this information on it, too, that people can see all the different avenues that we could go and then put, you know, this would if we keep our fire department or if we don't keep our fire department, all you know, and then they can actually have that in hand and read it and then if we um you know, keep get our, you know, employees up to medium wage, this is how much it will cost if I don't know, I think people would like to see that somehow and maybe if we had that printed out you think that would be good and then I think a printout would be good than having multiple ways for the comments for to come in whether that they want to cuz if we send out emails or they can get the information any other way they can send an email for their opinion they can fill out a a sheet at the open house. Um I feel better about having an open house than to just straight give the information first cuz it sometimes gives the residents a little incorrect like they they have more time to stew about something and to be angry about something and not being able to talk to somebody directly about it and it just creates a a more of a boiling pot for their anger to to not have a direction or questions to be answered and when it simmers for too long I think it it can be a problem. So I think open house having people being able to talk to them and say hey we want your open comments about this. I mean we and and not just give them the hey this is what we're trying to do and then later have them

But I want to have a printout too so we all don't have different figures. I talked to her she said it would give me this much a month and what and so what and all you know

And we can break an open house up to where you know start at this time and we can give a short presentation and then give handouts and give another one a little bit later maybe an hour later. Yeah we'll have we'll discuss it with everyone and figure out how we want to do it but But I like that one better to where people can be answering questions real time than to let it get Yeah I think the flyer's very important. We should definitely do that. be saying something and I think we need to go formal. Personally an open house is great if you're showing off a road you want them to see or but I think we just need to be straightforward formal. Right and how do you how would you

I think you do a a formal presentation and then I think you have them the public uh then come and then be able to ask questions? Yeah either comment or ask questions. That way they feel like they've all been heard and that way you don't have this lingering uh he said she said Right yeah and we don't want a screaming match and No. Yeah. No. To get the word out to even get it um the word out to make sure everybody is aware of it. We had that newspaper we could put that in huh? [laughter]

That's right. So that's the most important thing I think is just to spread the word once we get the date and then I think once all the citizens get the information we'll hopefully be able to tell. I mean no one's going to say yay yeah I want that tax increase. I mean I'm going to have to pay it too but they're going to but we're going to say do you want to have a good service you know for your roads for your fire for your police for for you know every department. This is what it's going to take in order for you to get quality service and and that's that's what you want and that's why you live in Roy then. That's what it's going to be so So I did want to say to Brian I know what I think there's merits to both but my only concern with the formal one is there are people that won't ask questions in that type of setting. Does that make sense like And so that's my so that was my

They will hear Maybe there's a combo type of option. Well anyway we can talk about Follow you to your car. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah No I I Or your house. Or your house. Or if there's like follow up that they need you know like

Yeah. I mean I've It can be on the flyer. Yeah and I'm even thinking like a facts sheet you know like what does it mean to increase like just what Amber said you know is hey this is not what this percentage increase means so what does it not mean you know does it mean this percentage of your income it doesn't mean this percentage of your tax bill doesn't mean you know I think you get a a better overall gauge on the public's opinion with the formal. Now that's that's what I think but I want Yeah I agree. What if we start out formal and then break in and say do you want to talk to anybody personally or ask you know if what you've Feel free we'll give you a half hour. We'll figure it out. We'll have to discuss how we're going to do it without the newspaper. We will divide up the city and we'll take flyers out we'll pound the pavement everybody. We've done that right? We've done it before. We've done it for elections we've done it for all sorts of things. Let's pound the pavement. Get that word out. So we're we're going to get an email is that what we said? An email for deciding on the date? Okay so any further discussion or do I have a motion to adjourn? I motion to adjourn. I have a second. Okay. Brian was really on that. Okay. Meeting's over. All in favor? Aye. Thank you everyone for coming. I know it was a lot to hear and it was a lot for us to write down.