Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

Regular meeting for May 8th. Can I have roll call, please?

Roll call is as follows. Chairperson Orloff.

Present.

Vice Chair Lamb. Present. Commissioner Epstein.

Present.

Commissioner Austin Dillon.

Here.

And Commissioner Campbell. Present. All commissioners are present.

Thank you. Reading of the Land Acknowledgement. The City of Roanoke Park acknowledges indigenous peoples as the traditional stewards of the land. Let it be acknowledged that the City of Roanoke Park is located within the traditional homeland of the Federated Indians of the Great and Rancheria, comprised of Coast Miwok and Southern Pomo peoples. Can we please stand for the Pledge of Allegiance? I open this up to public comment. Any persons wishing to speak to the commission? I'm getting feedback here. On any item not on the agenda, may do so at this time. Each speaker is allotted three minutes. If you have a comment on anything that's not on the agenda, please fill out a card or step to the podium. Thank you. Item five, consent calendar adoption of minutes. Approval of the draft minutes of the Planning Commission regular meeting of April 10, 2025. May I have a motion? I move we accept the minutes. Is there a second?

Second.

With that, all those in favor?

Aye.

Any opposed? Five-zero, motion passes. Item 6.1, public hearing modification to a conditional use permit, Walmart interior expansion. Applicant owner, Brian Spencer, Walmart Neighborhood Market. The Planning Commission will consider a request for a modification of an existing conditional use permit for an interior expansion into existing adjacent retail space of 49, 4,969 square feet. This is at the southeast corner of Golf Course Drive and Country Club Drive in the CN neighborhood district at 901 Golf Course Drive, APN 143-311-059 and 62. With that, I'd like to welcome Brandy Caulfield. Welcome. You have our staff report, correct? Thank you.

Good evening, Chair Orloff. I'm going to go ahead and introduce, I think you've met Christina Ratcliffe. She's going to be providing the presentation tonight. I just want to restate that this is for a conditional use permit for the Walmart expansion. It is within existing interior space. There's no expansion of the building itself. And with that, I'll go ahead and let Christina provide the presentation.

Okay. Thank you, Christina.

Thank you. Good evening, Chair, Planning Commission, members of the community. I wanted, before we go on the presentation, there's two small typographical errors in your Planning Commission staff report I wanted to correct, first of all. On page four, under operations, the first paragraph, it says these include deliveries between the hours of 7 a.m. and 9 p.m. on weekdays and 9 a.m. to 9 p.m. and that should read weekends, that the 9 a.m. to 9 p.m. portion is referring to weekends only. There's one other small typo that's on page 7 under the findings. Finding B, the criteria satisfied, the very last sentence refers to the San Rafael standards rather than Roanoke Park standards, and I'm very sorry for that. So it is Roanoke Park standards. And moving on, so this is an amendment to an existing conditional use permit that was granted by the commission originally in 2013, I believe, 2014, at 901 Gulf Course Drive. So Clotilde, I'm advancing it, but it doesn't seem to be advancing. There we go. OK, sorry. Thank you. So just a bird's eye view of the location here. Walmart is the anchor tenant for this shopping center, the red dot, your basic Google map. And we have Emily, Eleanor, Country Club Drive, and then Golf Course Drive bordering this. Brief background, the supermarket is located within the Mountain Shadows Plaza. The whole project is 4.28 acres. It has an existing conditional use permit, which is a requirement for any grocery store in the CN zone here. And the site plan and architectural review was previously approved in 2013. The proposal is for the addition of 4,969 square feet by incorporating existing adjacent retail space and relocating 17 online, sorry, not relocating, but locating 17 online pickup parking spaces. These are existing parking spaces that Walmart wants to designate as for pickup spaces. specifically. The new interior facilities include merchandise staging, storage, an employee break room, training office, and restrooms. The interior upgrades include restroom relocation, a new mother's room in the main store, and a pharmacy remodel which includes an additional bathroom for the pharmacy folks, a privacy area where they can consult with patients and also provide vaccinations, and then accessibility upgrades to the parking area. And here's an overview of the site plan. The red outline, the larger square is Walmart existing. The little leg out is the area that they want to expand into. Again, this is existing retail space that they are proposing to expand into. Um, right now, um, and I'm not sure you can see this. It might be clear right behind you. Sorry. Um, just, um, the vacant spaces, um, the ballroom, uh, which is on the right used to be a ballroom. It's now vacant. And then mailboxes, et cetera, um, is in the center that's vacant now. And then Campbell chiropractor and mountain shadow barbershop are towards the end of the, and that's the existing space. configuration right now. And that's the area. Again, it's planned to bump out and join the Walmart store. Here's a closer detail of that. As you can see, the area closest to the existing Walmart will be a new break room, a training office, some new restrooms, and then storage area where It is proposed to locate things that are going to be picked up by folks who are just picking up, not going and shopping in Walmart at that time. So there's 17 existing parking spaces at the south end. This is behind the Walmart, the existing Walmart. And those are designated for online order pickup. You call in, go online, order things, pull in, and then check in via the Walmart app, and staff will deliver orders to the designated pickup space. And the pickup operation will not include amplified music or sound or customer notification systems. It's all done via app. And here is a zoom in of the pickup parking spaces. And these are, again, existing parking spaces. The top of the plan is the building, the existing building, and then the parking spaces are behind that. So staff asked Kim Lee Horne as the applicant to conduct a noise study for the expansion and the interior improvements. The noise study was conducted on a short-term and long-term study that covered existing noise, construction noise, operational, mechanical, mobile, and the composite noise levels. When I say mechanical, they are proposing a new air conditioning unit on top of the extended space that will be located as far away from the adjacent residential as possible. The project construction and operational noise levels would not exceed any city or other agency noise standards. Most of it is going to be interior. There will be some noise when they improve the parking lot for ADA access and signs for the pickup, for the staff pickup. So the project generally, the applicant wanted this to improve the interior layout to better organize customer flow and separate online order pickup areas for staff and public use. It modifies the site circulation in the parking lot to support vehicle flow and reduce long-term parking in the mountain shadow plaza. Supports and advances accessibility goals by resurfacing pavement, updating the sidewalks, striping, and improving overall visibility and access. And it does include interior improvements to enhance operational efficiency. We did receive public comment. One public comment was included in your packet. We received it before the packet went out. We received three other emails. Those were forwarded to the commission and a paper copy is at the dais. In addition to that, The applicant submitted a letter as well. I should state that the four letters expressed concern about the proposal, about possible expansion, concerns about traffic, noise, and Walmart in general and the close location of it. I see folks here. I'm sure that folks will want to address that during public comment. The required findings for this. are that the proposed location of the conditional use permit amendment is in accord with the objectives of the zoning ordinance and the purposes of the district in which the site is located. As stated before, in this zoning district, the CN, neighborhood commercial zoning district, a conditional use permit is required for any grocery store. This is a modification to an existing use permit. And With the conditions, staff believes that we can make these findings. I should also note that there were conditions on the original use permit. All relevant conditions have been carried over to this new use permit. So hours of operation, not operating trash compactors at certain hours, things like that are all included as conditions of approval in this. The proposed, the second finding, the proposed location of the conditional use and the conditions under which it would be operated or maintained will not be detrimental to public health, safety, or welfare, or materially injurious to properties or improvements in the vicinity, and that the operation and maintenance of the conditional use will be compatible with the surrounding uses. This is an existing grocery store. We looked at potential impact with noise. We looked at circulation. A circulation study was submitted for the parking lot to make sure that that wasn't going to cause problems. And we feel that with the conditions proposed that this will meet that finding. And that the proposed conditional use will comply with each of the applicable provisions of the zoning code. And we believe that we can make those findings. And just to note that since it is a conditional use permit, certainly the commission has the authority to modify conditions of approval, add, remove, et cetera. And the recommendation for staff is the adoption of resolution 2025-004, approving the conditional use permit amendment for the Walmart neighborhood market located at 901 Golf Course Drive. And are there any questions of staff? And I see the director may have something. Yeah, sure.

Chair Olof, I just wanted to add a couple of points of clarification. As I know, this was a question that came up. The proposal for this expansion includes curbside pickup It is not a drive-through. I know that that was a question that came up. And then I don't recall if I heard Christina's presentation, whether they included that we expanded our notification. We send out 620 notices. So we normally will send out notification within 300 feet. Our code allows the development services director to expand that notification. As standard practice, what we would like to start doing is including tenants as well. I think that's good practice, and that's what we did for this one.

Thank you. I'll open this up for questions for staff. Commissioner Epstein, questions? Not at this time. Commissioner Campbell?

Yes, I just have one question. You mentioned a circulation study. Is that the same as a traffic study or was one required given the conditions of the permit and what they're applying for?

No, that wasn't required and those are different. We wanted to look at the circulation of the trucks making deliveries and the folks coming to pick up, to park and pick up and make sure that there was sufficient room and maneuverability so that that was taken care of. So we didn't require a transportation study. This is going into existing retail space. So this is not increasing any potential impact that retail would have the center.

Commissioner Austin-Dillon. I'm not sure if this is a question for the applicant or the staff. So it's about parking. Is that a good staff?

Depends on the question.

So, well, I'm trying to understand, is the parking lot sufficient to handle the expanded store? That's what I want to get at.

Yes, because the parking lot is actually over-parked by about 170-plus parking spaces, more than what our code requires for the shopping center. And since, again, there's no new construction. They're going into existing retail space. so that if any other tenant went into that space, there wouldn't be any additional parking requirement. It's already established and accounted for and actually has more parking than is required by code. Thank you.

Vice Chair Lam. Questions?

If this is original commercial space and If the tenant are doing regular renovation, it sounds like it just a regulation, like your renovations. Why do they need a conditional use permit?

Thank you for asking. So they have a conditional use permit, which is required for a grocery store in this zoning district, no matter what grocery store it is, if they want to locate in the CN district, a conditional use permit is required. And that is the purview of the planning commission.

modification to a conditional use permit likewise needs to come before the Planning Commission thank you I have no questions for staff at this point I'll open it up for the public meeting I'll invite Brian Spencer is he available today this is our applicant

Good evening. Is it on?

I think so.

Good. OK. Good evening, commissioners. Thank you for taking the time today to listen to our application. And then thank you, Christina and Brandy, for your presentation and help in getting our application to this point. My name is Jen Gutzloff. I work with Kimberly Horn, and I am the civil engineer and applicant on behalf of Walmart for this project. I just wanted to highlight a few parts of the project. So the project is intended to improve public access or public, just improve upon the public experience of shopping at Walmart. So in terms of the pickup parking, what was initially sparked by COVID and an increase in the online order world just has continued to grow since COVID has ended. So the pickup order program works by a customer going online on the Walmart app, placing an order and then saying, I want to pick this up at the store and I don't want to walk into the store. I want someone to bring my groceries or my online order out to me. And when they set their order, they set a time and a date. and a time window for when they would like to come and pick up their groceries. So then when they come to the store, Walmart's associates know that they are arriving in this time range and also it helps Walmart be able to manage how many people are coming to pick up groceries at one time. So we're not overloading the area, everyone coming at once, we can spread it out throughout the day. We will be moving the pickup to the rear of the building like Christina had mentioned in her presentation. This is an area that is existing parking and it's going to remain parking and it's going to be better utilized for the shopping center. Taking that pickup and moving it away from the main parking and the people who want to go into the store and shop. And it's also gonna make it safer for the associates who are bringing the groceries out to the customers. In existing conditions, they have to walk out of the front of the store, walk along the main front drive aisle, and then through the drive aisle to the side of the building. In this new proposed condition, they won't have to walk in a drive aisle anymore. They'll have a dedicated crosswalk across that one drive aisle to be able to bring the groceries to the customer's car. The takeover space or the expansion of the Walmart also helps better serve the interior of the building. So the dedicated pickup space will allow them to have more storage and free up some of the space inside of the existing Walmart. And a part of the existing Walmart Christina had mentioned, we'll be adding a family restroom. We'll be adding a mother's room. And then there will also be a small increase to the pharmacy size, which will allow them to add a health clinic to do private one-on-one consultations within the pharmacy. We have a few members of the design team with us here tonight. We have the project architect as well as the land use attorney. So we're happy to answer any questions that you may have. Thank you.

Thank you. You can stay at the podium just in case. Thank you.

Questions? Yes, I just have two. If this resolution passes, do you know what the time frame is until you start the renovations?

Yes, we would be looking to start renovations in September with construction complete around December, but that is dependent on us getting our building permit in time.

Okay. And so that December would be finished, and then how soon after that would you be in full operation?

In December.

That's all I have. Thank you. All right, Commissioner Campbell. Thank you for the presentation. Just a couple questions about the customers that come for pickups. Do you have an estimate of how many come a day or a month or a week? And then what are you forecasting for growth if this approval were to go through?

I do not have exact numbers with me. The 17 pickup stalls comes from Walmart's study of

the pickup trends across all of their stores and what they believe will be sufficient to satisfy the store's needs and just to follow up are they do you have any projections about or i guess is the current amount of business that you're doing is it increasing or do you see a trend at least at this store

There'll be no, in terms of traffic, there'll be no increase because all of the added area is storage space. So there's no additional sales floor area being added.

Hi. My thought is around the noise and the traffic with the increase of people picking up their groceries, picking up their items, and what kind of mitigation can Walmart do to ensure that it doesn't get out of hand? Are you gonna be monitoring it? What does that look like when people are coming to pick up their items?

So this is an existing parking area. We're not going to be changing that. So any cars that are going to be parking here, there's going to be no change to the existing conditions. And the people who are coming to park are not going to be getting out of their car. So there should be no additional noise traffic. Just the person, the Walmart associate will bring the groceries out, load it in the trunk, the backseat, and then the customer will then leave.

Then my second question is about the small businesses that are being impacted. Is Walmart working with those businesses or how are you acclimating yourself to that area, knowing that there's people that aren't gonna have a business there potentially? And it looks like there's two that won't. So what does that look like?

yes thank you for bringing that up i forgot to mention that so there will be no businesses leaving the shopping center those two existing businesses the barbershop and the chiropractor will be relocated to elsewhere in the shopping center to a vacant an existing vacant space and then one will be relocated to a space where that tenant has told the landlord that they will be leaving walmart is a tenant so the landlord is handling that transaction and working with those two tenants and paying for their relocation to elsewhere.

Thank you. Vice-Chief Lamb, any questions? In regards to the pickup of groceries, do you believe that this new format will increase the amount of people picking up or is it gonna remain same? All this is gonna be doing is changing the location where they pick their groceries up.

It will increase the storage space for the pickup area, so that would allow for more pickup orders to happen. Existing, there are only six pickup parking stalls, which limits the number of pickup orders that are allowed to be picked up each day. So the increase to 17 and increased in storage area will allow for more.

The parking in the rear of Walmart, is any of it used today for any reason? To park customer parking, employee parking, any parking?

Employee parking. I don't believe that anyone who is shopping at the Walmart existing is parking in the rear of the building.

Okay. So it'll have limited impact on employee parking as a result of the change? Are they going to park somewhere else?

The designated employee parking is in the main part of the shopping center, or where they ask the employees to park. So there'll be no impact to that.

OK. I have no additional questions. Commissioners, any additional questions for the applicant?

So just so I can clarify what you said, Because I got kind of two different answers. So initially you said that you're not expecting a great deal increase of sales.

So there'll be no change to the amount of people shopping at the store. This is allowing for a different avenue of shopping to occur by allowing more pickup orders to occur and better serve those customers who do choose to do the pickup rather than wanting to walk through the store.

Okay, so then is it accurate if I'm under the impression that there shouldn't be an increase of traffic, it's just more people are picking up rather than coming into the store, and you're already doing pickup now, correct? Correct. Okay. Thank you.

I was just wondering, so with the expansion of the pickup, is that going to bring more jobs? Are you going to have more people hired?

Yes. I'm going to let Chris speak to that one.

Good afternoon. I'm Chris Lapointe from WD Partners representing the architecture firm for Walmart. To answer that question, the increased pickup facilities allow for at least 10 to 20 more jobs in terms of circulation. And on top of that, because of the relocation of the pickup facilities, it allows for expansion of the pharmacy, which allows for some additional pharmacy staff.

All right, any other questions, commissioners? All right, I'll open it up to public comment. If anyone wishes to speak, please fill out a comment card or approach the podium.

Good evening. My name's Jaylen Wright. I'm one of the small businesses that wasn't mentioned during the presentation. My business is Pearlescence Beauty. We actually share a current wall with Walmart right now, as well as another existing wall with a ballroom. So I'm in that little courtyard right across from Patelco. During this expansion, I have a couple questions, and I appreciate you, Commissioner, for asking about the small businesses. However, I feel like there's a couple more things to dive a little bit deeper into. One of them is I feel like it was misleading that there was no impact of the small businesses regarding diversity of the businesses. So for example, what I mean is one, during all of the construction, what is that going to do during construction noise-wise? I own a spa. We offer facial services, spa services, massages, things of calming, soothing, relaxing environment. And I chose this unit in mind five years ago because of how calming and relaxing and soothing the area was. There wasn't a lot of noise pollution, et cetera. What is that going to do for my business, considering that I share a wall with them? not only for construction, but what about open operation? Once you guys are in business, we're gonna have a large amount of staff. You talk about storage room and facilities like that. What does that mean for trolleys being moved around, shipments and containers being dropped off? Am I gonna be hearing banging loud noises? Air conditioning units was mentioned since we're trying to keep it away from the residents. Is that going to be coming in closer to my unit causing more noise pollution? As well as insects has been another thing concerning Walmart being a grocery store. We share a wall. We've had some insect issues already. What is that going to bring into my state board certified clean environment. One other option I'd like to ask to whoever's willing to answer is what's going to happen to those existing doors for the ballroom and the driving school that is open right there? Is that going to be a point of access available only to employees or is that gonna be considered another loading zone where they're gonna be bringing things from the front of Walmart around into that courtyard in front of my business shopping carts things like that adding more to the noise pollution or are they going to be sealed off and that is not going to be an entry or exit for anyone i also wanted to clarify that there is customers and employees that are parking in those back spaces that is going to be proposed for curbside parking There are people that do park behind there and many of them are my clients because they're unable to find parking in the front of the area. I also wanted to open up if there's any questions for you guys to answer since I am one of these small businesses that is here today and how it would impact us. Thank you.

Thank you. Additional public comments?

Hello, everybody. I'm a little jet lagged. I just got off a plane from New York, but I made it because I felt this was important. My name is Bess McKay, and I live on Eleanor. And I'm third house in from Emily. So directly behind me is half of the big part of Walmart and then the lower portion. When I got the notice, and I've been there 25 years, I'm no stranger to the trucks and all of that that comes, but when I heard that they were going to designate the back part of the lot near the residences as a pickup, what triggers in my mind are Noises from the pickups, the doors opening and closing, the carts being rolled out, because we have that now where the roll-up door back there, when they're opening that to take something in on that portion, that makes a noise. And an unawareness sometimes by Walmart employees, 11, 12, that late shift, they're out there doing stuff, they're moving carts around, and they're yee-hawing, and they're having a great time. But if it's summer and our windows are open, that noise travels too. So I'm concerned about the noise. I'm concerned at the human noise, the door noise, the cars. We already have the trucks. And I'm also concerned about emissions, like how many people are going to be sitting there for how long. and will their cars be running and that pollution's gonna be coming over our back wall. There's also lights and security cameras on the back of Walmart. Now, I can't tell you how effective those are or not, but I can tell you that some of those lights look right into my bedroom window. So I do have darkening blinds so that I don't, so that doesn't bother me, but I'm concerned that more lights are added. There's a security camera. It's facing left of my property, but if more security cameras go up, I don't want that looking into my property, into my living room. It's my understanding and this is by reading the documents as best I could. I've never had to do this before that the noise study was only done one day. And I would challenge that maybe more needs to be done on that. I was also really surprised to hear One of the presenters say that they didn't have an estimate on how many people would be coming and going. Because right now, that is in the parking lot side of Walmart. There are no residences right there. There's just the whole plaza. We all have animals. And our animals, with more noise and more voices, are going to get their voices, right? So we're going to have some anxiety there with them. It could be annoying other people. I don't know. The air conditioner. So we already have the big old, my house, I look right up onto the top of the big Walmart where the two big, I don't know if they're condensers, air conditioners, and that hum. is always there thinking about adding something that's lower and even closer to my house does provide me uh... some concerns so i'd you know i i have to say that for the first time in my twenty five years of living there i object when i first moved there we had roger wilco then we had pacific market so we've always had a grocery store. And even though it's not being expanded, it is moving closer and getting additional concerns that would make living there not great. And I'm one of several Eleanor residents here today. I could tell just by the faces. But I think I'll cut it there and just, you know, really would appreciate you guys considering what this will do to the residences and if there is another opportunity in place for, in particular, this pickup and that air conditioning and that expansion.

Thank you.

Yes. Okay, so I'm Bess's significant other, and so we live in the same house. And I just have a couple of concerns because I'm a truck driver, and I see the trucks come back there. And if you put 17, I think, stalls you want, there aren't cars there now. So when the Lay's potato chips comes in and another truck comes in, they all back up in there. Have you guys looked at that and studied it? Been out there during the day when they're making these deliveries? Because you're not going to be able to get 15 cars in there with all those trucks in there unless you've got a different way those trucks are going to come in. Right now, if you're looking at the inside of Walmart, the stuff you're going to be doing to the existing is already on the right-hand side. You're going to put it on the left-hand side and in the back. Well, that's where all the delivery trucks are. I'm talking from the 53-foot trailer to the little box truck, but they all come in at the same time. So you did mention the time that they are gonna be picking up the groceries. Did you guys check to make sure that's not the same time as they're making the deliveries? And that's all I gotta say.

Thank you, thank you. Additional commenters to the podium?

Hi my name is Karen Jang and I've been a resident of Roanoke Park for the past 49 years and I'm personally in favor of the Walmart expansion particularly the modified grocery pickup which would serve young families with children the elderly and the handicapped people in our community because right now most of those people have to get out of their car in their wheelchair and get into the store and then get out and get in their car and i think this would be a great service to them which probably a lot of them don't even know exists at this time and i personally would use the service as i age thank you thank you

Good evening, everybody. My name is Betty Epley, and I live on Eleanor Avenue. Ever since Walmart has begun their business at this place, the electricity impact on a building that is so old that has a growing business inside, I wish you guys would look over the electricity again. They had a mishap the other day where the water was leaking. A water pipe busted and shut this door down for five days. We did not have it, and the food was wasted, went into the dumpsters, and it was a traumatic incident where I don't believe that the expansion is safe. You know, I mean, you talk about this building. This building was built at a simpler time in Sonoma County. And now we have a grand old Walmart wanting to expand. You guys need to really check the electricity and the sprinkler systems out in this place. And the trucks do not make that corner. They take up every single parking lot space in that corner. And if the studies will go and the feasibility, you know what? It's not feasible. And you guys are going to put it in anyway. It doesn't matter what we say. You're going to do it anyway. But the idling of the trucks into the night after 11 o'clock at night, that's where my house is. And I don't mind the Walmart store. I shop at the Walmart store. And I feel for and I understand the pickup service. But I think that it should be just that, where they go and they pick it up. They're doing it in the front of the store. And the employees do park in the back of that store. And thank you very much.

Thank you. Additional public comment.

Thank you Kevin I'm also in favor of it. I think that it brings a lot of benefits to the community Also adding jobs. I think Karen mentioned earlier that it could support the elderly Handicapped people. I personally have a friend in a wheelchair, you know when he's by himself he's got to get in and out of his car back in his wheelchair in the store and Do it all over again. Right. It's maybe 40 minutes round trip just from getting in and out of the car. So that makes a lot easier for people like him. Also have an older dad who doesn't move so well. So brings a lot of opportunity for people to just get their groceries without the extra hassle of having to get in and out if they struggle.

Thank you. I think your three minutes have been spent. Thank you. Additional public comment?

Hi, good evening. My name's Kathy Sporzo, and I'm a resident of Roanoke Park. I live in Mountain Shadows Square. And growth is happening in Roanoke Park. We see it everywhere. And I think just adding more convenience to what we have I am in favor of the Walmart store. I do shop online, and I do go pick up. So I think having the more convenient pickups would be beneficial for all of us. Thank you.

Thank you.

Good evening. Good evening. Appreciate the opportunity to speak in front of you tonight. My name's Ryan Morita. I actually am the owner of the shopping center. I was born and raised in Renner Park. Went to elementary school at Hahn, right across the street. I then went to Creekside Middle School and graduated from Rancho Cotati High School in 2006. This shopping center I have a lot of memories about, which actually drove me to want to purchase this with our investors simply because growing up in town, spending a lot of time at the plaza, shopping at Roger Wilco with my grandfather, going to the local restaurants like Sonoma Taco Shop back when it was where the neighborhood cafe is, going to TCBY, going to China Delight. Got into real estate and saw this property and at that time it was Roger Wilco, Then it was Pacific Markets, which failed in the great financial crash due to financial issues. So Walmart came into this property in 2012 initially with a lease and had to spend about two and a half years to get the CUP to open and operate here. Seeing the traffic driver for Walmart is actually bringing community people, customers to the local businesses. I did hear a comment about the water issue on Friday afternoon. So most likely we're still researching that, but it looked like it was a potential fire, rise, or float issue with an old inspection from about two weeks or three weeks prior. But what I can tell you as a real estate professional, having Walmart closed Friday, Saturday, Sunday, and Monday, and looking at this shopping center and the amount of traffic and cars, I think the local businesses in the plaza will be severely impacted if Walmart is not there. Talking about the grocery pickup, it's a service that is already at the property. It's just in what I would call a poor area on the western side of the building. So relocating it to the back of the expansion space that has been basically vacant for as long as I can remember. we saw that as an opportunity to utilize space that is basically not leaseable. Looking into other concerns about noise and those types of things, if you look at the noise study, and I'm not an expert at this, but it looked like about 39.8 decibels, which, based on kind of rough Google searches and average conversations, about 60. So I think certain things like that, the Walmart team has done a great job addressing a lot of the concerns. For us as the property owner, this back parking lot is very rarely ever used, and if anything, it's where a lot of the issues happen. So we have a lot of illegal dumping, a lot of crime, graffiti. Most all of our police calls that we have to address are all back behind that building there. So we are obviously in support of it. This will also allow us to make additional capital improvements, which we're trying to do kind of a day in, day out, if you've probably seen some of the landscape upgrades and things of that nature. So we're very excited to hopefully have the commission approve of this because we do believe by general right in essence of expanding into space that's there. We think that the shopping center, if you've listened earlier, is actually over parked. If you look at some of the other centers in the community, Um, so we're very excited about the opportunity to expand the services to people in need. I have two little kids, four and two, and I can tell you kind of lugging them out, trying to grab groceries is definitely a pain. So having that service to provide to local young families, as well as elderly and people with disabilities, we think would be a great service. So I appreciate the opportunity to speak in front of you and hope you guys can consider giving them the opportunity to expand. Thank you. Thank you.

Additional public comment.

commissioners do you have any other questions for the applicant yes could the applicant step to the podium mr campbell uh thank you for coming back just a clarification question the staff report indicates that the store business hours are from 6 a.m to 11 p.m seven days a week Does that include, within those time hours, does that also include delivery times, or delivery times separate and apart?

Are you talking about the pickup services?

No, I'm talking about major truck deliveries of supplies.

I apologize. I'm not familiar with the specific store plan. So each store has their own delivery plan with operations. Typically, they try and keep them during operating hours, but not during peak business hours. And they usually try and avoid having them delivered at, like, 1 in the morning so that people are not idling there, especially in these neighborhood markets.

And the only reason I ask this is just to clarify, if there could be some work around, so we're not delivering during those times that customers are picking up, or if there's an ideal time during those operating hours within the conditional use permit as it's currently stated.

right what i wanted to clarify and for the record i'm todd williams i'm uh the land use attorney for walmart um so it's in the staff report it talks about the operations for deliveries deliveries happen during the hours of seven and nine on weekdays and nine and nine on weekends and that's a condition of approval that's in the existing and the modified uh or proposed modified And since I'm up here, one of the requests is if you are inclined to approve the resolution that has been presented, you need to make the same typo change that your planner pointed out to change San Rafael to Rohnert Park.

I got a question. Clarifying question for the staff. Was that wait till after?

Through the chair, yeah.

We'll close public hearing first and then you can ask your clarifying question if you have something for that.

And then I do have something for the petitioner. With the circulation study, was that done, did that include delivery?

Okay.

Yes, it will.

Thank you. It does.

My question is, so we've heard from the community, and they brought up some concerns. What is Walmart's plan to address some of the things that we've heard? Noise, traffic. Is there anything that Walmart can say to what they will do to mitigate that?

so to address the noise complaint particularly with the refrigeration of the hvac unit on the roof it's actually replacing the existing hvac unit that's about 25 years old so it's replacing with a new one that's compliant with current california green energy code so it should be more efficient and a little less noisy when it comes to traffic mitigation I apologize. Jen, could you speak to that? I'm an architect. We deal with the insides.

Sorry, can you repeat your question one more time?

Yeah. So I'm just curious, after hearing what you've heard, what is Walmart's plan to mitigate some of the things like noise and traffic? What does that look like for Walmart?

so for traffic i think the mitigation is moving the pickup to the rear of the building it's in existing in a not great location like ryan said in the side of the building kind of tucked away and not really in a safe location for cars or associates to get to so moving it to the back of the building really does help to improve the safety and circulation of the shopping center by taking those customers and moving them to the rear and then just keeping the main part of the shopping center for those customers who are entering the main part of the building or going to the adjacent small businesses. In terms of the noise, I think that's why the noise study was conducted for this project where the findings were showing that the noise would not increase over allowable levels.

And then my other question is, there's another Walmart in town, not too far away. What is the relationship with the neighborhood Walmart?

So that, the other Walmart in Ronar Park is what's called a Division 1. It is not as expansive in terms of the grocery services, no fresh meats, usually no fresh produce, so it has a very limited grocery delivery option. The neighborhood market line of Walmart is purely grocery, so there's no hard lines, no TVs, things like that. This provides a more complete grocery option for people to use their Walmart services for.

Okay, thank you.

All right, thank you. We'll close the public hearing. Additional questions for staff? Commissioner Epstein.

So just for my clarification and maybe some of my fellow commissioners, if we wanted to approve this, we could modify the times for deliveries, correct?

You have the power to change any condition of approval, yes.

It would just mean a motion. It had to be in the motion.

It would have to be in the motion, yes.

Additional questions for staff? Just to confirm, and thank you for pointing that out about the delivery times. So the delivery times are from, can be from 7 a.m. to 9 p.m., is that correct? Yeah, it's in.

That's correct, that's in the.

It's.

7 a.m. to 9 p.m. I'm sorry.

Page four.

Please speak into the mic.

Apologies. So it says if it's 7 to 9 on page 4, sorry, I'm trying to get to that now.

If you look at the actual resolution, it's on the third page, number 5.

So 7 to 9 p.m. on weekdays, 9 a.m. to 9 p.m. on weekends. So yes. What is that? And that is from the initial conditional use permit that was placed on the initial approval.

I don't have any questions.

I have a question about traffic studies. So can we require the applicant to do a traffic study under these circumstances?

So, sorry. Yeah, I mean, it would be unusual. Because this is an existing use, you're basically utilizing space that's already there. So the traffic study would basically be assuming that the occupancy of the existing units are operating and therefore would technically result in it's an existing retail space being converted to existing retail space. So therefore, the traffic should be similar. So there would be I don't think there would be value to requiring a traffic study in this situation. I would refer to the city attorney.

Yes, I agree with the comments that were made. Because this is an existing use that is allowed and as well the area is over parked, it could be difficult to require a traffic study because we're dealing with existing space. Typically traffic studies are done when there's going to be a new use or an expansion of an existing building or new homes, something new that's being added.

Thank you.

Thank you. I have no more questions.

Thank you. I have a few comments. I do think it's a good idea to move the pickup portion of this to the back of the building. I do live in that neighborhood and I do know that that parking lot is full most times a day. And I understand it probably is a safety issue if it weren't in the back. And so I would agree with the applicant that that is probably a proper use of space. back there. It's hard for cars to pass through in front of the store, and in fact, some of the maneuverability in the front of the lot I think will be alleviated with that change. I do have concern, not having looked at the how the parking is to be, how it's striped, I guess, in the back and how the trucks are going to come in for deliveries. That was a concern brought up tonight that I didn't think about. I would, I don't, think a change is necessary if it could be striped appropriately so that trucks are going in one direction, perhaps, and leaving one direction. I don't know if it's going back and forth. I know the parking would be on the back wall adjacent to the to the residents on the backside. So any change, I think I would ask the city to make sure that the proper ingress-egress to that back is appropriate for that setting. But other than that, I think it's hard to... Notwithstanding Commissioner Epstein's comments, a retail operation with numerous groceries being delivered throughout the course of the day, I would assume are staged. If Walmart could do a good job at staging them one at a time, that would be good. But I don't know how you could limit them outside the hours that are already on the conditional use permit. I think those are fair. So those are my comments.

I just want to add that I really want to stress that I do feel like it's Walmart's responsibility to do all that and to engage with the community. So if this is what's happening, I would like to see some mitigation around talking to the community, checking in with them, making sure that things are going the way you say that they're gonna go, because it's easy to say that now, but what does it look like when it's actually happening, right? So I would encourage the applicant to actually engage with the community through this process. It sounds like some people are really into it, which is great, and some people have concerns, but I think it's on Walmart's responsibility to make sure that communication is happening.

Additional comments, Matt?

So this is a tough one in the sense of, as a resident, I feel for all of you that had complaints and concerns about quality of life, and also as a resident and knowing how hard it's been in Roanoke Park to have successful retail, and knowing a little bit about shopping centers and the importance of having a strong anchor tenant, especially one that brings 20 more jobs to the community, it's a hard balance. I do, I agree with my commissioners that, you know, Walmart is definitely now in more than one place, part of the community. And so my hope is that they act like it and interact with their immediate community and neighbors and address some of their concerns. I would also, I hear what you're saying about the hours being fair, but then balancing with quality of life versus business inconvenience. So I would, I would encourage to maybe the shrinking of the delivery hours on the weekdays from 7 a.m. to 7 p.m. and 9 a.m. to 7 p.m. on the weekends. It's just two hours, but those two hours matter. And so I think that that is striking a good balance of fairness.

Thank you. Additional comments from commissioners? Yes.

Also, I've shopped at the store. It's a great store. I know a lot of people go there. It's probably one of the success models of why you brought the market here in the first place. And just seeing what that impact was last week and when the store was not there and just where people had to go. I went to several other stores and I was talking to them saying, hey, have you guys seen a pickup in business because the Walmart's out? Yeah, we're getting slammed. So those places then experienced the same impacts that people talked about tonight with traffic and stuff. So I know it's a big issue. It's how do you work with your local neighbors, your retail neighbors? But again, this is a unique area too. You're surrounded by houses, and where else can they go if they don't have a car or they have limited means or those services that Walmart offers? So it's just something to consider too when we think about this is what is the best viewpoint from the city as well as for the applicant for this project? Thank you. Thanks.

Additional? None? All right, I'll entertain a motion.

I'll make a motion. I move that we accept the proposal, I'm sorry, the, the, sorry, I'm going to find the number. I accept we, where do we start? I move that we accept the modification to the conditional use permit PLUP 24-0004 with the modification for delivery hours to be changed from 7 a.m. to 7 p.m. on the weekdays and 9 a.m. to 7 p.m. on the weekends.

Do I have a second to that motion with the modification?

No, I have another modification.

entertain um well can we first deal with the first motion is there a second uh second the motion okay um all those in favor of that just one quick comment can i just confirm um as well does that motion include the change to the typo from san rafael to ronard park on page two yes

Yeah, I think it had, that was the one thing that we discussed early, so I think so. I think the modification, if I understand correctly, is to page three, number five of the resolution, correct?

It would be under finding B at the end of the criteria satisfied last sentence.

The typo would be under the criteria.

The condition would be number five. You're correct.

Condition number five is modified by the motion and then acceptance of the correction from San Rafael.

Yes.

Yeah. And if the maker of the motion and the seconder of the motion could just confirm that for the record, that'd be great.

I confirm that for the record.

And this is the second. Okay, so we have a first and second on this motion. Can I have roll call on this motion, please?

Roll call is as follows. Chairperson Orloff?

Yes.

Vice Chair Lam?

Can you ask for a motion to commission and have a further amendment so we can say yes? If he has a further amendment, I think we could vote no on this one, and then we could go back to his amendment. And if it only modifies, am I correct?

Yes, or the commission before taking the vote could have discussion on the motion.

Okay, why don't we do that? So we have a first and a second all entertained discussion. Thank you.

So I just want to add, I think it's important that there's ongoing engagement and compliance checks from Walmart with the community when it comes to noise and traffic.

So how would that change the resolution?

Well, I just want it to be stated that that's what the condition is, is that in addition to the hours, in addition to passing the motion, that there's some responsibility. So there's some community engagement and compliance checks on what we just discussed.

Through the chair?

Yes.

If I could just clarify. So as far as ongoing checking up on things, we can craft something that staff comes back to the commission with any complaints or any calls or anything like that that we get in a year after they open, because it doesn't do any good right now, but after they open, in a year or so can do that. When you're talking about engagement, you're talking about Walmart engaging with the public. So I would want a little more direction as far as what you would like to see with that and how you would envision staff following up on that if it's meetings with the with the small businesses as part of the that are part of the shopping center meetings with residents And just to confirm what we can do If we pass the motion as is I think is then ask the

Because it is conditional, right? We can ask the staff to bring back a report on any complaints or issues, and then we can address them at really any time because it's a conditional permit. So we can reopen this really whenever.

Chair, may I? Yes. I think I have a recommendation that might work. Often when you have situations where there's construction that will be actively occurring, we ask the developers or applicants to provide notification during certain time frames. So something that you could, like a condition that could be added to the resolution would be something like, the applicant shall provide notification to neighbors living on the southern side of the shopping center prior to construction. And it could be, you know, 20 days prior to construction or whatever timeframe you feel might be appropriate. And that's something that's measurable that we would be able to confirm.

I'm not sure that does anything of what I'm trying to get at. I'm trying to get at how can Walmart

talk to the community in a way that gets at issues as they arise because if we wait a year that's not doing much for anyone so um through the chair just to clarify this was you know we can come back anytime staff can come back you know if we get comments i was throwing a year out as something we can do six months, we can do a year. If we get any comments, we can bring those to you. If we get any complaints, I'm trying to get at what you want to accomplish with the outreach.

I think from my perspective, that the outreach is really with Walmart. So if people have an issue with Walmart, they should approach Walmart. And if they can't rectify that issue with Walmart, then they can approach the planning commission pursuant to the permit that we, the use permit that we've issued. I think that that's the appropriate way to deal with this. We should be giving Walmart every opportunity to react to the community when a complaint is posed to them. I wouldn't add anything to this.

I agree 100%, and what I will say to the residents is communicate with us. We're here all the time. Usually there's nobody in the seats. Come raise any concerns because, as they mentioned, we can reopen this at any time if it becomes that important to the community, and that's what we're here for.

know what i'm gonna let it go but um yes i i've said what i need to say i'm gonna let it go chair orloff i realize the public hearing is closed if the if it's if the commission would reopen it i have just one comment because some of them um i think we have an open motion so at this point we'll deal with that motion and if there are questions um we can

probably address those after, but I have a first and a second on the motion that modifies paragraph five of the resolution to 7 p.m. on both ends as to deliveries, and then the change from San Rafael. So with that, can I have a roll call vote, please?

Roll call is as follows. Chairperson Orloff.

Yes.

Vice Chair Lam? Yes. Commissioner Austin Dillon?

No.

Commissioner Campbell?

Yes.

Commissioner Epstein?

Yes.

The motion passes with four ayes, one no, and zero excused absent.

Thank you. All right. We'll go to item seven.

Chair, if I just make a quick comment just for the record to note that this action is final unless appealed within 10 working days from the date of this action.

Thank you. All right, item seven, items from the Planning Commission. Commissioner Epstein, anything?

No, I just, again, want to mention it's nice to see so many people here talking to us from the community and encourage you all to continue to do that.

Commissioner Campbell.

Just appreciated staff for the report and the level of detail and helping with some of my questions this week. And thank you very much. Commissioner Austin Dillon.

Thanks for coming, y'all. Appreciate it. Nice seeing people in the audience. Vice Chair Lam.

I do want to thank Walmart to put some, the investment in our city because we really wanted to have more jobs and also prospect in our city. So thank you for that. And I also wanted to thank all the residents showing up and share your voice. And I do agree with our commissioners, Austin, Dylan, that it's important for the business, for the big business, especially corporate business, to communicate and do outreach with the community that is local, that affect the everyday life. And so I wish that you would continue to do that. Thank you.

Thank you. I have one item that I'd like additional information on. Um, and I, I hate to beat a dead horse, but I, I have to admit that I am not, um, in my mind clear on the sign ordinances in the city of Rohnert park. And I would love to hear, um, a presentation on, on what they are. Um, and also the court code enforcement program that we have in Rohnert park that, um, that deals with, with the sign ordinance.

I'd be happy to bring that back.

Thank you.

Future meeting.

I have businesses in my district that have asked me that question and I have trouble answering it, so. Thank you. Items, item eight, items from the development services staff.

So just to respond again, I'd be happy to bring that back as a informational item. Also, we regularly give code enforcement updates to the city council. I think that might be helpful information to bring to you after the fact as well. That way you're also informed. So we'll look to add those to future agenda items.

Thank you.

Kind of on that note, I want to start providing some kind of updates on what's happening at the city council level and just throughout the city as part of this conversation, this topic on the agenda. And on that note, in the last month, the city council held study sessions on April 15th of the 16th on the budget. and provided direction and guidance to our city manager and department heads. And study sessions are just an opportunity for the city council to hear where we are, what the projections are for the future years, and what the direction is for the budget. So that happened, the next step would be to bring the budget to the city council for adoption, and it's expected in June. I wanted to give you a brief update on the downtown. I know this is something that comes up often. I offered to provide you some bullet points and I'm gonna read through some things that I can then send you as talking points as you receive information or questions from the public. So the city's currently continues to be in negotiations with a developer. The project will require an application for tentative subdivision map and design review. Staff will initially work with the applicant to assure that they are compliant with the downtown code. And once the staff is satisfied that the applicant has addressed all items, they will begin to present that to the planning commission at a a design review board meeting. You operate as a design review board as a planning commissioner for the downtown. During this process, the city will provide notification to the public for this type of project. Notices will be typically posted on the site, will provide advertisements on the website, and notification in the paper will also send out notices to nearby residents and businesses. And then the purpose of the notification will be to provide information, to applicants and provide an opportunity to engage them and an opportunity to provide feedback either by email email, U.S. mail, or participation in the meetings. This will all happen. However, the first step is to finish negotiations and have the city and the developer complete that purchase agreement and development agreement, which will go to the city council first. So there's still a bit of work to do, but I know that there's been an interest in kind of getting some talking points, and so those will be forwarded to you via email, and you can use those as you get questions that come up. And then lastly, I wanted to mention today, I looked at the temperature. It was 78 degrees. It was a lovely day, but a reminder that summertime is coming and we are going to be working on trying to come up with a schedule for the summertime to kind of give you a heads up on when items are coming forward to help us really plan. I would appreciate if anyone's planning on taking vacations to let us so that we can plan ahead and have available planning commissioners and the Corps. That's it.

So just email you dates?

Yes, if you don't mind emailing Clotilde, she'll keep track of all of the commissioner dates.

I have questions on the downtown. So according to this plan, or if the negotiation is successful, when will we see the first building up? in the downtown. And what would that be? That's a good question.

Hopefully soon. You know, it just depends. Negotiations continue to happen. Typically, the design review process, you can take several months before it even gets to your commission because there's some evaluation of the project itself. So it'll be some time. As things start to progress, I'll provide you with regular updates so that you're kind of informed on what it looks like and how soon it's coming forward.

Thank you. My second question is, I think we also mentioned it before, that we hope that in the downtown development there would not be a case where the developer can build all the residential and then slow down the commercial part of the development. So I just want to mention that.

Yes, thank you. I appreciate that. Part of the, you know, reason we have the downtown is to have a downtown. So I know our city manager and her team are working on making sure that what happens, what occurs, the development that occurs is focused on both. And just as a note, in order to be able to release the land as a surplus land, we need to comply with certain requirements that are handed down by the state. So we'll be working closely with HCD. It'll probably be kind of in line around the same time. But I appreciate your comment on that. Thank you. Thank you.

Just along the lines of downtown, reading the newspaper, which sometimes I guess is a curse, but the city of Santa Rosa seems to have lost its opportunity to build a convention center. I just put that forth as to perhaps the new developer in putting out its plans might bring a whole bunch of stuff to the city of Rohnert Park, who knows, but. Any other comments for staff? None? All right. With that, this meeting is adjourned. Well, see you next time. See you next time. There you go. Beth, I don't need to even look at.