Planning Board - Regular Meeting

by cleaner air around our buses, schools, and neighborhoods. This proposal would replace 25 diesel buses with 25 electrical buses that could reduce pollution. We also recognize the question had been raised about this battery safety and emergency response. Those concerns deserve special attention. First student has reported has not experienced an electrical battery bus fire among the nearly 500 electrical school buses it has operated. The batteries and battery compartments are crash tested. and first student provides specialized training for drivers, dispatchers, maintenance technicians, and first responders. The proposed safety measures include increased space between buses, an electric bus-only site, fire detection and site monitoring systems, appropriate safety equipment, and continued training for local emergency responders. Driver training would address charging safety inspections, regenerative braking, implement weather, and emergency procedures. These safeguards have been strengthened through the questions and recommendations raised by the planning board and our local fire department. This is a clear example of collaboration of making this project safer. The second important consideration is the fiscal responsibility to our taxpayers. In October 2022, the Rondout Valley Central School District was awarded a $10 million grant through the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency's Clean School Bus Program. This funding supports the deployment of 25 Type C electrical school buses, which are necessary in charge of This award gives our community the opportunity to introduce new technology without asking local taxpayers to assume the significant upfront costs through local tax levy or bond. That point is especially important as New York State continues to move school districts and transportation providers to zero-emission school bus fleets. By using federal funding that has already been secured, we can begin preparing for that transition now rather than placing a much larger financial burden on our community later. The first round of EPA funding was especially valuable. Funding levels have decreased in later rounds, and the Rondout Valley has been designated as a non-priority district, making us eligible for substantially less support. If the current award is surrendered, there is no guarantee that Rondout Valley will probably have this funding in the future. The EPA grant also identifies the potential for substantial long-term savings in fuel and maintenance costs over the estimated 12-year life of the buses. While actual savings will depend on the operating conditions and energy costs, electric buses have fewer moving parts and do not rely on diesel fuel, creating an opportunity for lower operating expenses over time. Accepting that nearly $10 million in outside funding reduces future operating costs and preparing for the state's transition while the funding is available reflects responsibility of financial planning. This is not simply an environmental decision. It's also a fiscal decision on behalf of our taxpayers. Third, and perhaps the most meaningful part of this project, is the community partnership. No organization can move a project of this size forward alone. The district needs the expertise and oversight of the planning board. We need the operational experience of our first student, the technical guidance of Lobela, and the experience of Ulster County, and the knowledge and commitment of our local fire department and emergency responders. The site visits, public discussions, technical reviews, and conversations among these partners have helped identify concerns and improve the report. This project is strong because people were willing to ask difficult questions, listen carefully, and work together. Collaboration does not mean that everyone agrees immediately. It means that we respect each other's responsibilities, share information openly, and remain committed to finding a safe and responsible path forward. This project has given us an opportunity to model that kind of leadership for our students. It shows that communities can address complicated issues cooperation, thoughtful planning, and mutual respect. The benefits of this project extend beyond the school district. Cleaner buses means cleaner air in the neighborhoods through which they travel. Fiscal planning protects local taxpayers. Training and coordination strengthen our emergency preparedness. The knowledge gained through this process can also support the future projects in our region. When our schools, counties, and county offices, transportation professionals, and technical experts and emergency partners work together, the entire community benefits. On behalf of the Rondout Valley Central School District, I again thank the Planning Board for the time, care, and the professionalism you have brought to this process. I also thank First Student, LaBelle Associates, Ulster County, the Acker Fire District, and all of the community members who have participated. We understand that a project involving new technology requires careful review. We welcome that review and remain committed to meeting all appropriate planning, zoning, operational, and safety requirements. We respectfully ask the planning board to support a safe and responsible path forward for this electric school bus project. This is an opportunity to protect the health and safety of our students, act responsibly on behalf of our taxpayers, and demonstrate what can be accomplished when the community works together toward a shared goal. Again, thank you for your time, your partnership. and your service to the town of Rochester and to the entire Rondout community. Thank you.

Thank you.

Mr. Darrow, thank you. I can guarantee you there is not a superintendent across the country who is an expert in electric vehicles as much as Dr. Darrow is at this point. I'm going to cross off half of some of the comments I had because I can't do it better than all of us did. I will add a few things, though. At this point in the process, right, even different from when we started this, this is not groundbreaking technology. At First Student, we have electric buses running in 12 states, Canadian province, Dr. Sparrow said in 500, we'll have 1,500. And the reason that's important is, you know, when you do things in the beginning, there are some bugs, but we're not a believer in science projects, and I think those have all been working against this for the last few years maybe an advantage is a lot of those things probably have been smoothed out as this moves down the line I thought it made sense to have Kevin talk a little bit about the work that's been done around fire safety and then I'll close us and that is all

Thank you. It's always great to be here. At First Student, safety is number one. Nothing else is above that within our organization because we're given a societal trust to move the children of the community that we work in. There's nothing more serious than that. That's our generation. The people riding the buses today are going to be sitting here tomorrow replacing all of us. So that's a critical step that we do. The questions you have asked us as we've gone through this process, we asked ourselves six years ago when we started this journey because we wanted to address those. So every project we move and put forward at the 27 locations where we're currently operating school buses, the next 30 we'll be deploying over the next 18 months, all face the same scrutiny. all have to be done within those parameters. So first off, when we look at and limit our view to the fire safety, we believe we have taken that as serious as anybody. The industry has taken it as serious as well. The bus producers use lithium iron phosphate batteries. They're more expensive and they have less range to them. But they are also significantly safer than the lithium ion batteries you're probably used to seeing in vehicles that were first introduced as EVs. These operate at lower temperatures. They have lower thermal characteristics. And they tend to last longer. But all of the industry agreed. We just sacrificed some range. Lithium ion, you can get better range on. But we decided we'd sacrifice range in order to promote safety within the industry. Then within that, all the manufacturers agreed to put in safety systems to monitor these patterns and everything else on the bus. So they're constantly monitored for a number of issues that relate to them. So we will be noticed hours in advance of any issue that is going on within the program. We, on top of it, at First Student, have a secondary monitoring system on top of that, our charge management software, which also monitors the buses and can detect any anomalies in charging that occur and can alert our location managers and others in the community that we feel should be a part of that process as well. Then beyond that, you have probably seen videos of electric vehicles on fire at those cars. What you didn't see was probably the 12 to 18 hours that occurred before them, which was when the problem was first noticed. If you look at most of the fires that have occurred, they've been 12 to 18 hours after the incident was first detected in the battery chemistry that flames actually detected. That's why we create, not just here in Rondout Valley, but everywhere where we deploy electric school buses, an isolation zone. So if we notice there's any heat characteristics on the battery system, we move it into that exclusion zone so that there is a fire, it is limited, no other type of catch on fire. So with all those issues, we feel we have addressed the vast majority of predictable thermal events which could occur. And on top of that, we're now at 12 million miles of operations of electric vehicles. No one else in the industry has that many miles of operations. We have not had a thermal event. My competitors that I work with, there's somebody, my competitors just like me, I've talked to all of them, and we're now approaching close to 80 million miles of EV operations in the United States. No thermal events have occurred. So we feel it's a very safe, way to transport children, we would not introduce something into the community that we didn't feel was ultimately the safer way to move forward.

And I'll, Eric, I know I'm getting, you know, I'll close this down here. I'm seeing the weights up. Again, the last thing I would add here is a little bit of what's going on with the EPA. As you can imagine, when the federal government gives you $10 million and two years later you still haven't done anything with it, there are some questions here. So we are working, tightening with them. We have filed for and received six different extensions, and we are on a weekly update cadence with them. At this point, we're hitting a little bit of that pressure point, hence a little bit of the urgency here, and we appreciate, as I know you guys have We'll count it around and make sure we can get some time on here. But as you can imagine, you know, that money has already kind of had to been used to. Now we have buses waiting, we have infrastructure waiting. So at this point, you know, everybody's kind of waiting to see what happens here. But that's really what's been going on with the EPA on this is right now. We told them we'd have an answer in August and back to them here as we come out of this section and what is next. So. At this point, we're hoping that, one, the benefits of the project, as you heard from Dr. Spadaro, the rare federal funding. I mean, not to try to be a comic here, but it's not an opportunity that comes around often. The expertise of First Student, which I hope we've proven now that we do a lot of this and we were able to execute the project. And then the extensive risk analysis and mitigation work, which, as both Kevin and Spadaro said, has really been a benefit. the fire department set up the planning board we have learned the process here um through this so i think those four things we're really hoping obviously this gets us uh over the hump and we can get to a point we get this project going until the epa so uh i appreciate your patience and it's a couple minutes there but uh thank you

That's great. If the board would just bear with me for maybe one or two more minutes. For the public's purpose, the project's actually been with us since November of 24, if I recall, and numerous meetings with your team at that time. And So I guess it was about what I would call a year and a half worth of steps and missteps and three steps forward, two steps back or two steps forward, three steps back. But the current group of people have been in front of us since earlier this year. And it's that current group of people that we've been dealing with. more seriously, if you would, or they've been dealing with us more seriously in terms of giving us the information that we've been requesting, which is primarily around safety, as well as some metals, some site plan issues, which still need to be dealt with zoning issues, but we'll deal with those. So with that, does the board have any they want to make if not i'm going to go uh into the public hearing at the end of the public hearing we have another matter before us and then we're going to come back to you guys and discuss whatever we heard at the public hearing and or anything else um from our engineers you know back and forth there's a number of items that we need to talk about so the public hearing chris

I just want to clarify. I heard.

Speak up, Chris.

I just want to clarify for everybody's interest in the public. I heard 45 buses being mentioned, but this application is for 20 buses. Correct.

Right. You may be getting funding for an extra five, but that's going someplace else, as I understand it.

Yes. No, and I'll be at this level.

Okay. So it is for 20. Good. Thank you, Chris. So just a couple of procedures for the public. I have about 13 people so far who want to speak. If you haven't had a chance to sign in, it doesn't mean you can't speak. It just makes it easier if we have a list. And when we finish the 13, if anybody else wants to speak, that's fine. The purpose of public hearing is to hear from the public something we may have forgotten, something that you know that you believe we may not know. Of course, it involves your opinion about the pro or con about the subject before us. What I would ask you to do is to address, make your comments and address the board, not the applicant. This is a public hearing for, I guess you could say, our benefit to see if we have everything together the way it should be together. The board is not going to, typically, we're not going to answer questions. It's not a Q&A or a public information session. We've been with this project for almost two years now, but in great detail for the last nine months, eight months, and a lot of information is out there in the public domain. So there might be some item that will be addressed at the public air. So typically, it's not going to be a Q&A. And I'd like the public to keep their comments to five minutes, given the number of people who want to comment. If at the end there's more time and somebody wants to speak again, we'll consider that. But please try to keep it at five minutes. If you have written statements that you'd like to submit, fine. And certainly if after the meeting is over, you want to submit written comments, that's certainly possible as well. So without further ado, I'm going to call the first person on the list. Tim Guiney.

Good evening. I'm Tim Guiney. I'm a Marbletown resident. I've been in the fire department for 24 years or something. And I've also served on the planning board in Marbletown. And I thank you all. And I think you're insane. Thank you. planning board and a lot gets thrown at you guys. I've come to a couple of the meetings around this and heard questions about fire event with children. In at least the research I've done, I don't think there's been a fatality of a single child. there may be. The percentage of electric school buses to diesel is small right now. There may be as that goes up. But that's a speculative question. What isn't speculative is what the superintendent brought up, which is that I'm going to just briefly talk about quality of the air and the air cabin. There's a study that I looked at recently that actually showed that as emissions control things were put on tailpipes of school buses, there was no reduction in indoor air quality problems in diesel buses. We know that indoor air volatile organic compounds to benzene formaldehyde, which are recognized carcinogens by the EPA. We know, as was mentioned, because of children's metabolism and smaller lung capacity, that benzene, the likelihood of developing cancer for a child from benzene, is much greater than an adult. We also know that particulate matter 2.5 is something they're exposed to, ultra-fine particulate matter, UFPs, which is a sort of growing area of concern, carbon monoxide, which firefighters, thank you for your service, know all about, and nitrogen dioxide. Nitrogen dioxide is... involved in a host of respiratory and cardiovascular illnesses, COPD. But asthma, particularly pediatric asthma, there is some conversation that it may be causative. Well, what's absolutely certain, what is not speculative, is that it is an exacerbant. We know also that asthma is responsible for a lot of absenteeism. We know that children with asthma are less likely to graduate from high school than children who don't have the condition. So it's also connected to bronchitis, COPD. There's a new study looking at particulate matter 2.5 and nitrogen dioxide in outdoor long-term exposure. So it's not specific to school buses, but also linking it to onset of dementia. We know that there are from nitrogen dioxide. So the last thing I'll say about all of that is we also know that with some of these things with benzene, carbon monoxide, nitrogen dioxide, the effects of exposure are additive. So if you're a child and you're at home and you have a mother who's smoking cigarettes or you're running a gas stove without a vent, That exposure adds to the exposure you're getting on a school bus. It adds to the exposure you should get in other places. So trying to get, to create a healthier environment, it's important. Again, I thank you guys for your service. I'm listening to people over here.

Thank you, Mr. Gang. The next person, Rich Lazzaroni.

Good evening. My name is Rick Lanzarone. I'm a former board member of the Rondout Valley School Board. Former member of the Ulster County Planning Board. I have 20 years experience as a municipal planner. I've studied very carefully your town code, your zoning code, your zoning schedule, and the site plan. And I don't really understand why this matter is actually before the planning board. This is not a change of use, which would trigger site plan review and SECRA and everything else. If I change my buses from diesel to gasoline, if I change the fuel of my bus, that's not a change of use. In fact, parking buses is not really a use, it's actually parking. And it's described in your zoning schedule, in Zone B business, that parking lots, open parking lots, are allowed as a right, and one of the few things that doesn't have an asterisk, which the Big 6 advised that it needed site plan review. So, open parking lots in your B district do not require site plan review. In fact, It doesn't even require a permit because your building code requires permits for buildings and structures. There's no requirement for electrical permits. And from my perspective, the children of Rana Valley should not have been exposed for diesel fumes For the last two years, this should have been a ministerial act. Actually, it didn't even require a ministerial act. The only thing I can see is a concrete pad for a transformer. Ministerial act. This matter, from my perspective, is not properly before this board, from the way I read your down code, planning code, and your zoning schedule. Thank you.

Thank you. I said I wouldn't answer anything and I'm not going to get into the details, but obviously we're going to continue with the application since we have a finding by the by the building department or the CEO that this should be handled by the planning board. And so if anybody just administratively or legally, if anybody thought that that was the wrong finding, there's a period of time when it can be challenged by a variety of means that never occurred. But anyway, we're going to continue with this planning board. But thank you, Mr. Lazzaro. Paul Spadaro, do you want to speak again? You're good. Okay, thank you. Brenda or Brendan? What's the last name? I'm sorry.

Brendan Walsh. Thank you. I'm here representing the Ulster County Department of the Environment. Firstly, thank you to Chair Jones for having us here, and thanks for the rest of the board as well for this opportunity to speak. From the perspective of the Department of the Environment, we believe firmly that This EV charging station center here on Route 209 is critical for the future, not just the Rondout Valley School District, not just the town of Rochester, but for the future of Oldie County as a whole. Now Ulster County, as many people have mentioned, can speak pretty authoritatively on EV buses in this area. Thanks to an aggressive green fleet policy, we've now moved 25% of all of our county vehicles to electric vehicles and electric hybrid vehicles, including five EV buses and three transit vans. Now, in all this time that we've had our buses, in the last In 2025, rather, we drove 100,000 miles in these buses. And we learned a thing or two, namely When you look at the efficiency of these vehicles, you find that they use four to five times less energy than their diesel counterparts. What that means is it's a cost savings, of course, to the operators. But also, when you look at the impact of those various kinds of energy, you see the greenhouse gas emissions. And as Tim was mentioning, the tailpipe emissions from these diesel buses is significantly higher. than an electric bus. Now, I ran a couple of numbers just to give some perspective on this, but if you take a diesel bus and you drive it 100 miles, that will take 20 gallons of diesel to go that distance. If you take an electric bus, on average, according to our data from our fleet, it takes just five gallons equivalent of energy to go that same distance. And that's a quarter five time reduction in energy use, right? But when you extrapolate that to the greenhouse gas emissions, We find that to go that distance, the diesel bus produces about 440 pounds of CO2 equivalent, and that is laced with all of these wonderful chemicals that Tim was talking about. Now, 440 pounds, I'll just do the math on this, that's about eight sixth graders. So you can imagine eight sixth graders worth of CO2 being emitted for every hundred miles. The electric bus, conversely, produces just 50 pounds of CO2. And that CO2 is being produced at power plants and the grid. It's not coming out of the tailpipe. It's not being recycled in the cabin. And crucially, it's also not being dispersed at bus stops and at our schools. Just to add a little more flavor to this, if you take one of those buses, the diesel buses, and you drive it 100,000 miles, or if you take a fleet of diesel buses and drive them 100,000 miles, you'll produce... 39 Olympic sized swimming pools of CO2. But if you do the same thing with an electric bus, you produce just five. And of course, that's not being cycled through our cabins. So just to drive home that point, the global and global impact that we see from these gases that are produced by buses are significantly lower and significantly less harmful to the public when it's powering an electric bus. So those are the main points I would like to get here. Thank you again for your time. And if you have any further questions about County Spring Fleet policy or any of the numbers that I just skewed, please reach out. We'll also be sending written comments on behalf of the Department of the Environment to the Planning Board. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Walsh. Eve Walter.

Hi. Greetings. I'm Dr. Walter. I'm the public health director, the head of the Department of Health in Ulster County. I'm also an epidemiologist. So I was at the fair all week and it was hot. It was kind of brutal and it was difficult, especially in the Department of Health, seeing people trying to manage enjoying themselves at this fair in that heat. And all I could think was how glad I was that it wasn't a week or two before when our air was filled with smoke. And what would that be like for all of the families who are trying to enjoy the ride? We have a lot of things impacting our air quality that we can't really control. We're going to continuously be experiencing the smoke coming from wildfires. we're going to continuously be experiencing this excessive heat. And so the reason why this is important to me is that this becomes one of those rare things that we actually can control. And so it seems worth really focusing on it. You've heard already that, you know, air pollution from motor vehicles associated with a range of different health effects, including asthma, exacerbation, respiratory infections, cardiovascular disease, and other fun functions. And you've also heard about the impact that diesel has as a source of particulate pollution associated with airway irritation and inflammation. And this, again, these kinds of things especially impact the more vulnerable people, the people who have respiratory conditions, children with asthma, adults with asthma, COPD, any kind of heart conditions. It was mentioned this idea that the focus is on safety. I'll just say before I go to that point, I actually served on the planning board for several years in New Paltz. And so I really appreciate the importance of recognizing for special use projects. you really have to think about that the special use, that it's really serving the health and welfare and the nature of the community that it's there. That's why you give a special use permit. And so for me, you know, this concept of safety is not just avoiding danger, which I think people spoke to of how safe they are, but if safety is also about reducing risk. And so I'm here to advocate for this project and projects similar to this, in an effort to reduce the risks that are out there. Again, this is one we can do something about. There are many out there that we can't. I appreciate your time.

Thanks. Thank you. Next person is Carrie Cousins. Good evening.

Good evening. My name is Carrie Cousins. I am vice president of the Rondout Valley Central School District Court of Education. a member of the Town of Rochester's Agricultural Advisory Committee, and then the owner of the Hudson Valley Own Farm. I'm not here to speak for the board, but to share my opinion as an individual board member and speak in support of the proposed electric school bus projects. As a member of the Board of Education, I have a responsibility to consider the health and safety of our students, the responsible use of public resources, and the long-term wellbeing of the entire Rwanda public community. From each of these perspectives, transitioning to electric school buses represents an important and forward-looking opportunity. In October 2022, the Roundup Valley Central School District was awarded $9.87 million through the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency's Clean School Bus Program. This funding would support the replacement of 20 diesel buses with electric school buses, along with the charging infrastructure needed to operate them. This is a significant investment in our community, one that does not require our local taxpayers to fund the substantial upfront cost of this new technology through a local bond or tax levy. From a fiscal standpoint, this opportunity is especially important. New York State is moving toward the conversion of school bus fleets to zero emission vehicles with the current statewide mandate of transitioning school bus fleets by 2040. By using federal funding that has already been awarded, our district and transportation provider can begin meeting that obligation without shifting the full financial burden to local taxpayers. If we do not utilize this funding soon, we risk losing it, as we've heard. If this award is surrendered, there is no assurance that these funds will be re-awarded to our district. Rondout Valley has recently been designated a non-priority district, meaning we would likely qualify for substantially less funding in the future. There are also meaningful long-term operating benefits According to the information presented to the district, placing electric buses into service could potentially reduce operating costs by as much as $37.5 million over the bus's estimated 12-year lifecycle. While actual savings will depend on energy prices, maintenance needs, routes, and other operating factors, electric buses offer the potential for lower fuel and maintenance expenses. The environmental benefits are also compelling, as we've heard. Replacing diesel buses with electric buses would reduce pollution. Every diesel bus removed from service means fewer tailpipe emissions traveling through our neighborhoods, past our homes, and onto our school campuses. This is not simply an environmental issue. It's also a public health issue. Diesel exhaust has been associated with asthma, respiratory illness, cardiovascular concerns, and other negative health effects, again, as we heard today. Electric buses would eliminate tailpipe emissions and reduce students' daily exposure to diesel fumes while they're boarding, riding, and waiting near buses. Cleaner buses mean cleaner air for our students, our drivers, our staff, the residents, and all of us who live and work along our transportation routes. I recognize that the planning board and the community have raised legitimate questions regarding the proposed site, emergency preparedness, fire safety, traffic, and compliance with local requirements, and these are valid. First student has proposed several measures and measures in response, including creating an electric bus only site, providing increased spacing between vehicles, installing fire detection and site monitoring systems, adjusting the site layout to meet applicable requirements, and providing specialized training for drivers, maintenance personnel, and first responders. First student has also indicated its willingness to work with local officials and emergency services to provide any additional training that will be needed. I know safety is a priority for our district, as I'm sure it is for our town and for this planning board. I expect your student to continue collaborating openly with the town. and accord fire districts, emergency responders, and the community to address concerns and satisfy all applicable planning, zoning, and sanitary requirements. This project offers Rondout Valley an opportunity to protect student health, reduce pollution, modernize our transportation system, comply responsibly with the state's long-term direction, and make use of almost $10 million in federal funding before that opportunity is lost. As a school board member, I believe we have an obligation to consider not only the challenges immediately before us, but also the community we want to lead to future generations. Cleaner air, healthier children, responsible fiscal planning, and a more sustainable transportation system are goals that benefit everyone. I respectfully ask the Town of Rochester Planning Board to continue working collaboratively with the district first student, local emergency responders, and community members to establish the conditions necessary for this project to move forward safely and responsibly. Thank you for your time, your thoughtful consideration, and your service to the town.

Thank you. Okay, next speaker, Lisa Cadden.

I'm Lisa Cadden, and I didn't realize I was signing up Lisa, could you talk a little louder?

Maybe you want to come up to the middle of the room.

I'm the first neighbor to the north of where the school buses are, and I really wanted to know what the plan was to know more about it, and I any more good questions when you're giving comments. I'm all for electric school buses, so. I just had some questions. I don't know if this is the right platform to ask them, though.

It's a public hearing, so we're looking for comments. We've been at this for two years, but seriously for about a year. But after the public hearing and one other project we're going to go through, so sometime around 8 o'clock probably we're going to get into a discussion. So if you want to stay around for that, I'm sure you'll have, you'll learn a lot from that. I'm sorry. Yes. We'll be here to at least 12. Chris, I can't hear what you're saying.

She has questions. What I was explaining to her is if she has questions, she can ask them now and then they will be discussed at around 8 o'clock or so. That's fair enough. So I think it's worthwhile for her to speak on.

Well, the first thing was, since I'm on the property to the north, I was wondering if the lot will be expanded to what it is now, because I know that property, the people that own the field and everything right now, right where the school buses are is for sale. So I was just wondering if the lot had plans to be expanded. That was one of them. And The other one was more implementation of putting in the lines, because it's going to have a station. You're going to have to have more electricity going to there. And so I don't know, but I'm assuming there's going to be more lines putting. And I was also wondering, we used to have a lot of brownouts and blackouts, not recently, touch wood. But what impact it will have on the grid. So those were my main concerns. Thank you.

Thank you.

Emily Abramson.

Bringing my daughter up in a speed app. Good evening, everyone. Members of the planning board and all community members that make up this fine district of Rwanda. My name is Emily Asher Abramson, and I'm speaking tonight as a resident and a parent of three daughters in the district who cares deeply about our children's health, environmental responsibility, and our community's financial future. Transitioning our fleet isn't just about meeting state mandates. It is a common sense win for the town of Rochester in making use of this incredible grant that has been allotted to us. Our district operates approximately 50 vehicles of those approximately 25 heavy duty diesel buses. Replacing 20 full-size diesel buses will have a massive impact. Studies show, and I've been reading plenty of articles lately, I put some of them on the website. the town of Rochester website for the public comment section. But they can be up to 12 times dirtier, diesel buses, than outside air. Directly exposing our kids to harmful exhaust pollution that trigger dangerous respiratory attacks, particularly affecting our asthmatic population of 132 students is required. Electric buses eliminate tailpipe emissions, as we've heard, while providing a quieter, cooler ride with standard AC that dramatically improves student behavior and reduces driver stress. And I won't have to hear lamentations about it every day for my teens. Replacing these 20 diesel buses is projected to deliver $120,000 every year in local health and climate savings. As for safety, eliminating liquid fuels like gasoline and diesel drastically reduce the fire risk As electric vehicles are statistically far less prone to fires, coupled with affordable site curbing to satisfy EPA compliance, this is a clear, safe path forward. Our community wants cleaner air, safer routes, and smart fiscal planning. Let us lead the way tonight. Thank you. Thank you. This is my daughter.

Good evening, members of the Town of Rochester Planning Board. My name is Nora Abramson. I'm a rising ninth grader in the Rondout Valley Central School District. Thank you for giving me the chance to speak tonight about how electric school buses could help me and my fellow students. For me, as for many students, the school bus is how we start and end every school day. We spend a lot of time riding the bus, so the kind of bus we ride really does matter. Electric buses could be especially helpful for students who have asthma or other breathing problems. Diesel buses give off exhaust that students can breathe in while waiting for the bus, getting on, or riding. For students who already have trouble breathing, diesel fumes can make the bus ride even more difficult. Electric buses do not produce a diesel exhaust. This would mean cleaner air for students, bus drivers, school staff, and the neighborhoods where buses travel. For students with asthma, cleaner air could make riding the bus feel healthier and safer. Another great benefit is that the new buses will have air conditioning. Anyone who has ridden a school bus on a hot, humid day knows how uncomfortable it can be. Students could arrive at school feeling better and more ready to learn. Electric buses are also much quieter than diesel buses. On a diesel bus, students often have to speak louder to be heard over the engine. When everyone starts talking louder, the bus can quickly become stressful. A quieter bus could create a calmer environment. Students would not have to shout in the driver could give directions much more easily. A calmer bus could also improve student behavior and reduce distractions. The way we feel on the bus can also affect the rest of our day. After a long school day, a quiet and comfortable ride home would be nice, especially during humidity or heat. I understand that people have questions and concerns about electric buses, and I agree that safety should always come first. I also hope you'll think about the students who ride these buses every day. Electric school buses would give cleaner air, air conditioning, less noise, and a calmer ride. They can make a real difference for students with asthma, disabilities, sensory needs, and other health concerns. This project is about more than replacing one kind of bus with another. It is about making the ride to school better for students while also creating a cleaner environment for our community. Thank you for listening and for considering the voices of our Met Valley students.

Good job, Doric.

What grade are you in?

What grade? Ninth.

Ninth?

Good job, mom.

The next name, I'm not quite sure. Beautiful handwriting. It looks like either Jenna Bradford. Is that even close? All right, I'm going to skip to Ellie Neiman, then. Is there an Ellie Neiman here? No?

Can you make this, Neiman?

Just 10 minutes, because then you wouldn't have to say shit.

Jen, did you sign to speak?

I did not.

You did not. OK. Because I can't make, I thought maybe it was you. It was beautiful handwriting. So if you want to speak, you can. OK. Ellie Neiman, not here? OK. Um, last name is Phil Hona. Yes. Sorry.

What's the first name? So I came to learn more about the electric buses. I'll be driving one eventually.

Okay. Well, hang around, uh, get started chatting about them again at eight o'clock and, uh, You know, it's frequently have people come to the meetings asking a lot of questions. And we could be here for hours and hours and hours asking, answering all these great questions. And it's just want to encourage people. There's so many interesting projects that are on the agenda. And the way to find out about them is just to go onto the town website and see what's on the agenda for any number of Town board planning board, whatever, but the planning board publishes its agenda. 4 or 5 days before on Monday meetings, and not only do we do that, but we have a new system that was implemented last year that allows you to go in and examine all of the documentation for a particular project and to be able to study up on it. And to attend the meetings and hear the board discuss them along with the applicant. In fact, we have one project, if you really enjoy reading a lot, that has 400 documents in it. It's called Verizon Cell Tower. So you have nothing to do this weekend. If you want to catch up on that, please be my guest. The last speaker is Kathy Nolan. Kathy, is there anybody else who signed this and I didn't call on? because I certainly butchered a few of the names. Okay, Kathy.

Thank you. Hi, my name is Kathy Nolan and I'm an Ulster County legislator for District 22, which is the four towns west of the middle of the Ashokan Reservoir. And I also work for Catskill Mountain Keeper, which is an environmental and public health nonprofit organization. Tonight I'm here not for either of those organizations, but in my role as the president of New York State's chapter of Physicians for Social Responsibility. It's a nonprofit group of physicians and health care workers who advocate for public health in various ways. And we've worked on a lot of issues that are directly relevant to school buses and now to electrification of school buses. I also used to work on, I served on Shan Dakin's CBA, Zoning Board of Appeals, since people have talked about their prior experience. And I thought that was wonderful. Lots of different perspectives. I can say, I'm a pediatrician by training, and I also have training in epidemiology and research design. And so I've been looking at the research in this field And I can really back up and affirm everything that you've heard from the speakers tonight about the toxicology of what diesel buses put out and the benefits of removing those or not having those produced by electric vehicles. And I especially appreciate the Abramson family and Nora Abramson, the daughter's presentation about just air conditioning and reductions in noise could be enough to make this a valid transition. But I grew up in Tennessee, and we had the Tennessee Valley Authority, which was hydro, and so I grew up in a house that was electric. And when I came up to New York State and discovered that people were burning fuels, combustible fuels, in their homes, I found it very difficult in terms of odors and noise. and exposures, which I was aware of. There's a general principle that you should not burn fuel inside a closed container that also has human beings in it. I work with a group that is trying to get people on the Tibetan plateau not to burn dung in their yurts, basically, to switch to solar, you know, solar heat. Any closed container is going to make whatever contaminants you have that much more hazardous to the people in them. And in our bus, in our school districts, we have children traveling long distances, which means long periods of time. In my role with the legislature, I did speak with the Ontario School District a few months ago, encouraging their transition to EV buses. So I felt like I should come and speak and support your effort to do that here. So I think that as we look at these issues, you can understand that when you burn something, it produces kind of particulate matter, fine particulate matter, as Tim Linney spoke about. What you might not know is that when you have co-contaminants like the other products of combusting fuels, like diesel and even methane, natural gas, you have, with the particulate matter, a vehicle for transporting those co-contaminants deep inside the body. Because otherwise they're gaseous and they might not get in so deep. But when you are burning something that produces particulate matter, those particles, the gases and toxins adhere to that and they go deep into the body. So what we've seen in terms of new onset asthma, worsening of asthma, cardiovascular disease. There's mortality. There's actual deaths that you can measure relative to exposure to combusting of diesel fuel and other gasoline, natural gas, fossil fuels. So it is true that children breathe faster, and so they bring in more. They are also growing, and so they are extending energy and need to have cleaner air, and they are developing. And there's concern that I have about the effects of these co-contaminants, especially on development of children's brains. There was a study that looked at removing retrofitting diesel buses, and they showed not only the decreases in asthma and pneumonia, but they showed improved lung growth, And they also showed increases in English and math scores after they retrofitted the diesel buses. Switching to EV is an even stronger, cleaner way to go. So I am really impressed that you went after the money and got it. And it looks like you found a way to do this safely. So I wish you every success in going forward.

Thank you, Kathy. That was the last speaker that signed up. Is there anybody else who'd like to speak for or against? Yes, sir.

Can I have your name, please? My name is Wes John Alder. I'm a resident of Marble Town on the far side of the district, close to the border of Burleigh. So I appreciate all the conversations about children's health. I wanted to speak, I guess, a little business side and emphasize that, you know, with the federal government kind of withdrawing itself from supporting environmentally sees the money, it seems like a no-brainer. But it's going to be a long time before we get a grant like this again. So that's my comment.

Thank you. The comments that Cathy made reminds me of my time in Tibet years and years and years ago. They called it patties. The don is called patties there. And just a little geography. They actually put them up against the side of the buildings on the sunny side in order to dry them and then pile them up in their yards and use them to heat the houses. When we were up there, the place that I was staying in was being heated by cow patties. Don't pet the fluffy cows, though. They're a little bit... The yaks are a little bit... and uh cantankerous rather okay um anybody else um the applicants did you make note of what um question lisa yes yeah so you'll address that when you do crap right now i'd like you to do it when we get to the uh the meeting we'll do i know it doesn't sound like it's they're going to take those more they were easy to address so i'd like you to do that Dave, I showed you the CEO determination. Do you want to address the issue of why this is even before the planning board?

Yeah, just real quick. The planning board does not make zoning determinations, including the questions that the gentleman raised in his comments. The CEO makes his own determinations and the planning board follows the CEO's determination. In this case, the CEO determined that it should be before the planning board for site plan approval and special use permit. due to the installation of the EV chargers. One of the beautiful things about a society is that there's a division, there's a separation of powers. We have a certain job and the building inspector has a certain job. As the chair alluded to, the building inspector's determination is not final. It can be appealed to the ZBA by anybody who's affected by it and doesn't think it's right. There is a timeframe for that. In most towns, it's 60 days. I'd have to check what it is here. I think the determination was dated November, December of last year. So that would have been your timeframe to question that. Other than that, that's why we're here. And our job is to do site plan approval. In fact, and that question has been raised in the past, and there's a number of court cases telling planning boards, don't even think about rejecting projects and not handling them because you think the zoning... especially where the CEO is made a determination. So that's the short answer.

Okay. Anybody else from the public? All right, what we're going to do is, if not, we're going to take a 10-minute break. We have one project. Is Bill Eggers here? There you are, Bill. Bill, you're next up, and then we'll go to bring your gentleman back, and we'll have a discussion.

Hold on one second. Keeping the public hearing open. My

I'm going to recommend that we close the public hearing. Remember, the public hearing for purposes of the board taking a vote is to hear public commentary. This project's been here one for, I know that for two years, but certainly for the last year. So my intention is to close it, but I'd like to hear what the board wants to do. If we close it, we'll still take written comments.

Yeah, that was my team. Is that acceptable?

Yeah, I would just like

responded to the because the district chief has been on vacation right right so I feel like that there's that bit of information that is missing I know we're gonna have a discussion about where we are with setting up the media meeting with the fire department and the reason it didn't happen is because the fire chief's been on vacation so um I'm going to make a motion to close the public hearing and it's it's up to the board Yes, we will. I made a motion, second. All in favor?

Aye.

Anybody opposed? Aye. Okay. We will accept written comments, I'm going to say up until and including the time of decision. So that could be 30 days, that could be 60 days. So let's keep the written comment period open permanently until the project's been decided on in the oven. All right. So let's take 10 minutes.

I think we should have a little time between the end of the public comments and the decisions. We need to have time.

Well, I don't disagree with you, except there are so many moving pieces here. We still need to meet with the fire department, right? And there's still some information that needs to be discussed between us. So I think it's easier in this case just to leave it open. OK? So let's do that. Let's take a 10-minute break, and we'll come back. First, next thing up is no waivers, and then we'll talk.

Thank you guys.

Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you so much. Yeah, I figured no one needed to hear me. I think that's probably what happened anyway. We've had at least another one. Yes, there's that one question. I think you have a WCPA. That's not going to be there. said that again it's like you need to go talk to the building inspector which they're doing in zca we're going to get it out but in the tax frame that's my greatest

In the end, it doesn't even count.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. You're talking EPA again. You want to get through quickly. Hawaii is going to get it. Yeah, pretty quickly. That was the Even with that, I don't know if they really need it. I don't know if they really do. They... And she is. That's sort of stumbling. But. I would have given up. Yeah. I was technically going to get different. Thank you very much. Because they consider it temporary. Right, they might have some. Does he have to turn his volume on? I can hear you.

Can you hear me? Let me see if I can turn my volume up.

Does that sound louder?

Okay. Yes. Can you hear me now? Yes. I can hear you. I can hear you. I can hear you. can you hear me yes Thank you. Thank you.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Thank you. So I'm happy. Yeah, I'm sorry. I went with a Thank you. Thank you. It's not that bad. I still don't know how to work it out. You don't want to look at what you're doing. you know you know Okay, let's get back together again. I guess I should wait for our attorney. Thank you. A little bait forever. No, cartons. Return the cartons. I know.

That's how I brought you to keep up, you know, to be nice to me.

Thank you. I do get some. That's the way I get my fellow board members to be nice to me. We're always pleased. I know.

I don't know.

Can you hear us?

Yes. Thank you. Hang on one second. We're just waiting for our attorney. Okay. Waiting for Godot.

Okay.

For anybody who doesn't know who this character is on the screen, that's our engineer, Greg Bowler, who asked that he'd be able to call in tonight for a variety of reasons, one of which he just had some major surgery.

We miss you, Greg. Thank you. I miss you. My Oklahoma man.

And now you give 10 minutes to a full group. Oh, here he comes. Here comes the professor. Okay. So the next project is the Marshall subdivision. And Bill, do you want to let the board know what's going on?

Yeah. So you're all familiar with this property. Everybody's been there, except for Nate. Everybody else on the board has been to the property. So briefly, the HAB-Masyn Moyer- We were. HAB-Masyn Moyer- And. HAB-Masyn Moyer- At some issues, as you all know, as you all walk up the driveway. HAB-Masyn Moyer- That went to the proposed lot in the back there and rather steep so it was going to be a quite a bit of work with engineering design destruction to get that into post here so. HAB-Masyn Moyer- The property. Marshack right here, um, is really his, um, priority right now is to separate out these pieces of land from the large parcel in the middle of the 17 and a half acres proposed lot one that has a house and other facilities with it because he wants to get that on the market. He wants to sell that off, but he doesn't want to sell these other lands with it. He wants to keep those, um, for other purposes, once, you know, building a lot in the front. And so, um, what we, we, uh, pulled out the proposal that we had before and brought back another proposal that would be in the subdivision of the small lot out in the front. We don't have any issues with that. And the portion on the back is- Is that proposed lot two?

That's not two?

Right. So, and then to do a lot line adjustment or a lot line improvement here in Rochester, all of this parcel in the back, about three acres bounded by stone walls, to attach that to other lands that Mr. Marshak owns in the back here. Existing driveway goes through to that, that house and barns and stuff like that. And also include with that a little triangle just to provide for the ability to in the future to have a better connection across with a driveway there. So if you remove that driveway to where it is, you have to really squeeze it to get above the corner of that lot. So if we take this whole piece, attach it to the other one in the back, you know, a little more flexibility to bring that driveway around. So if he were to ever in the future decide to follow through with what he had proposed as far as the subdivision of the slot in the back, the one that's bounded by stone walls. Obviously, that would have to come back to the planning board for approval for that. Actually, that piece originally was part of the lands which is now shown as void and was also attached at one time with the parcel of his other lands of Marshack there. So it's kind of bringing things back together in there.

All right, so thanks, Bill. So when I saw this, this is the third iteration, right? We've had two previous iterations of this withdrawn, not just named. So each last year in April and March, the applicant came with something. He withdrew that, came up with the driveway, as Bill said, that didn't seem to work. Came back with another one. We said, okay, we need to see if you want to do that, you need to give us the engineerings and all that. You need to see the profiles, compaction, what you're going to build a road of. applicant didn't want to go through all that work wanted to get this other parcel parcel two on the market so they would drew the old thing the old map withdrew that again and this is now a new application again um with the changes that bill just um mentioned what i mentioned to bill was okay but um maybe three times is the charm, but here's what I want in order for us to get this back on the agenda and for the board. I think the board would want the following to be part of our discussion and our agreement. Lot two, I think most of us walked that and there's no, I didn't see any problem with that. The other one still has the problem, how do you get access? So I said, fine, you want to do lot two. If we decide to approve it as mapped out here after our discussion, there's going to be in the decision and therefore on the map, what's going to be and needs to be agreed to is that there'll be no, the driver is going to have to be proved to be viable by presenting engineerings, whether they come back to this board for another subdivision or there is a provision on code to allow two houses to be placed on one lot without going through subdivision. It depends upon the zone. It depends upon the size of the lot. In this case, you could have the house way off to the right combined with the property that is being proposed to be lot lined, eliminated. The combination of that could allow two houses to be put on the property without going through the subdivision process. So I said, look, to kind of stop playing games here with access to it, fine, but whether you build house by going to the building department or you come back here for a subdivision we're going to need to see build the engineerings which includes the profiles compaction how you're going to build the road what kind of drainage because if you remember last time and now it's about five months ago we went there there was already erosion occurring from rains The pipe that was under the road was already being undercut by the water coming down at one of those hills. There were some comments made by somebody who knows what it takes to get a fire truck up a road like that is how we're going to get a fire truck up there. There was no provision for turnarounds bill as provided by New York State Fire Department, a whole host of things. So I'm okay with Lot 2, but I want to make it clear in terms of verbiage that this other word's not being subdivided. Part of the subdivision process is going to require the engineering's and on the map, there's going to be a note that they cannot go to the building department and ask for another house without proving that this is buildable by presenting the engineering's.

So effectively what it would be is a two lot subdivision with a lot line improvement.

Yes. Yes.

Do we know what the slope is on the new proposed driveway?

When Greg looked at the plans and just doing by the seat of his pants without actually getting out there, somebody looking at it, he said it was close to 25%.

No, not the driveway that we walked, but the- Isn't it a distant driveway? Is that existing?

Because we didn't go- They're not showing a proposed driveway. Not showing a proposed. What they're showing here is the one we walked in, and it says driveway to be abandoned.

Right.

They're not showing any driveway up there. They did on the previous map, they showed a driveway. And at that point, it was a little bit to the right of the one that says abandoned. So they did put it on a flatter piece of property and that might've worked. You said, okay, but you still need to show us the engineering for that one. But we never got to that point because the applicant withdrew the application. So they already have a note there that the one that we walked is being abandoned. And what I want as assurance is that

So then why do we need a lot line improvement?

Because the applicant is asking for a lot line improvement.

But the driveway already exists to the bar. Yeah, the house and bar.

Is this an existing house and bar or is this a proposed?

Yes, it's existing. So there is a driveway there, right?

Oh, I understand you have a driveway. I got it.

You have a driveway access might exist.

No, but they have to subdivide or do a. That's what you're saying, right? For lot 3. gotcha. Okay. I understand.

But this has become the practice since then.

There's no reason to, I guess the way to answer your question about why is it, there's no reason to deny the lot line.

Yeah, no, I got it now. I see, because it's already developed.

That makes sense.

I don't have a problem with that.

Anybody on this side?

No, I think that's reasonable.

So Bill, we're willing to proceed. We need a public hearing. So I'm even willing to set a public hearing tonight. to get this moving, but you need to agree when the applicant, the applicant needs to agree that, you know, we're going to put it in the decision and it has to carry over to the map. It's not even, do you agree? We're going to put it in the decision. And as you know, all the conditions wind up on the map. So I just want to let you know what we're going to ask for in terms of conditions in order to go forward with this. And I think it's particularly, Mr., mr marshak is because this is the third this is the third time at this swinging at this and it keeps the board is concerned with the inability to get to that plot properly with uh it's going to need to be engineered properly and what we've seen so far it's not been engineered properly so that's why we're insisting on what i just outlined so you guys on board

Okay. We'll do.

Okay. So the board have any other questions?

I do. Did we have Dave Church do a write-up? I'm sorry, Jim. Did we need to have Dave Church do a write-up?

He did one originally. Way back when, I believe.

We have one in the file. Okay.

It's in the file.

Okay.

But I mean, the application has changed substantially. I can ask Dave to do a write-up.

Or just modify what he already did.

I can ask him to do that.

Do we need more escrow?

I have to check with Stacy what we have in escrow. I don't know how much we have. So I will ask that we do a write-up or a modification. Okay.

I mean, it's a very different project.

Does the board wait for that, or do you want to set a public hearing? The earliest time we could set a public hearing, given what's on our agenda, is the first meeting in September.

I'm fine with that. I think it's very reasonable.

Okay. I'll entertain a motion then for public hearing for first meeting in September, which is, I believe, September 14th.

I'll make a motion for public hearing on September 14th, and I'll second it.

Let me just check the date. Hold on. You can see that I miss Stacey terribly. She keeps me on this. Yes, the 14th.

I'll make a motion for public hearing on the 14th.

Motion made.

Seconded.

Only in a second. Everybody, all in favor? Aye.

Aye.

Aye. Anybody approves? Okay. All right. So, Bill... I'll find out whether or not we need, whether Dave needs to do an update. It's an easy thing to do. Stacy will check the escrow. We'll have the public hearing September 14th. Assuming there's no problems with that, we'll be able to do, write up a decision and have it for the end of December, September. All right? Okay. Okay.

Thank you. Thank you. Can I just clarify my mind? So we ended up, Mr. Ramaphat, after he sells it a lot to, he will end up with two lots. Yes.

In effect.

Right. Since he wants two lots, there is soon be any highway, I mean, A driveway agreement, the common driveway, because it's one owner, it's not required.

He's not doing anything with the driveways.

Right, but... It's not a subdivision, it's existing.

It's existing, so...

He's not doing anything with any of the driveways.

He'll have a driveway for Lot 2, but that's... No, I'm talking about the driveway to Barn.

That is existing already.

Right, but it's going through the proposed Lot 1. So my question is...

It's there already. Presumably there's an RMA there for it already. So...

There's defense.

I'm not going to complicate this any further. When he comes back, sorry, and then asks to do something, then we can deal with whether you have an RMA. If he splits it off again, right, and he needs to do a stint, if you will, for another driveway, he's going to need an RMA. But right now, there's only one driveway.

Okay.

And whatever had happened in the past with that is not the subject for what we're doing here, in my opinion. Everybody okay with that?

So we asked, because there's that driveway, I understand it's going to be abandoned, but I'm thinking about like an emergency call. So we asked that they throw like a log over that driveway. So in Fire trucks don't try to get up there if there's a call to the barn.

Up the road?

Yeah, just so that nobody tries to drive up that way. I don't know how I feel about that.

It could be used as a farm, you know.

Oh, okay. Yeah.

Tractors, et cetera. Yeah. Okay.

Fair.

It's tractorable with a four-wheel, but it's not car-able.

Yeah.

Car-able.

I'm making up words.

I mean, I guess it is horrible if you had a four wheel truck, but it was pretty good.

Okay.

You guys good? Sorry. You're okay. Thank you. Thank you, Bill. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. Chris, would you mind getting the first student people back?

All good.

Great. Thank you.

Thank you. Have a good evening.

We'll talk later this week.

Sounds good. Okay. Talk to you later.

Bye. Thanks. Thank you.

Thanks.

Okay. Well, Lisa, uh, Lisa left. Uh, Lisa left.

Well, we can go over our, we don't know. Oh, you did. Okay. So she's good. Yes.

All right.

So let's get down to the brass tacks here. Chris and Chris, I know that you tried to get a hold of the fire chief to set up a meeting. In fact, you did it right after the last meeting. You saw his truck parked out there, but he was already on vacation. So you all are going to give him a call to try to set up a meeting. for later on this week or next week. The purpose of that is to, and I assume this is happening, I thought we made a lot of progress at the last meeting with all the safety bits and pieces that were put together. And bits and pieces doesn't give justice to the work that was done by everybody. But I thought that it addressed many of the concerns that were in the letter from the fire chief from going back about three or four weeks. So the purpose of the meeting with the fire chief, if he asks, is to go through at a high level what has been done, what has been agreed to by the applicant, and is there any change in terms of how the chief wants to approach this, in essence. And I will try to make the meeting. If I can't, well, I'll try to make the meeting. So that's one thing. At the last meeting, Chris Lapine, we had asked for, I had asked you to summarize the results of the last meeting, all of the items that we said were done, those that weren't done, still needed work. And I think you said you wanted to wait until after the public hearing to do that.

So after, I just want to make sure, so... HAB-Jacques Juilland, You're referring to after the last thing we're meeting or last planning board meeting, which was the 27th of July, so we we received their plans on 731. HAB-Jacques Juilland, Yes, the updated plan right. HAB-Jacques Juilland, And we have not. HAB-Jacques Juilland, We have a letter that is in progress. the letter. And the only reason why we haven't concluded the letter, you asked that it confirm whether or not the fire department felt comfortable with the responses. So that's one of the outstanding items is to have that meeting with the fire department so that we can sum

So what does the fire department have right now from both parties that would allow them to react to their concerns from their memo of about a month ago?

So I know they dropped an additional copy off here at the town when they made their submission. And that was one of the things I asked at the last planning board meeting, if that could be sent over to the fire department.

You're talking about the site plan? Correct. All right. I'm thinking more of the 25 items that you came up with, they responded to, and we went back and forth on.

And those components, those responses, and those documents that they submitted were the documents in response to fire department comments and our comments. So what I'm referencing is if that package, if Stacey brought that or sent that package over to the fire department, And they've had an opportunity, which I doubt they had an opportunity today. But the intent is to schedule a meeting with them. Give them time, you know, 3 or 4 days to review the material that was submitted. And then, if they feel comfortable with the comments that were. Right, and the responses that were rendered, we can conclude our response.

The package you're referring to, though, that you gave to Stacy was just a set of maps.

No, it was the entire package from July 31st.

Okay.

That had their emergency response plan, technical specifications. I'm sorry. There was about HMA.

That was the document or the submission that had like nine documents attached to it. Correct. And I questioned there was a duplicate. That's right.

Correct. And I resent the one that was missing.

Okay. Okay. So that's the package that was supposed to go to the fire department? Correct. You guys didn't send it over to them?

We sent a full-size copy as per Stacy's request to Stacy. But any of the information in regards to the response document, the emergency response document, I was not informed that we had to send anything directly to the fire chief.

Correct. My understanding was you were sending that in so that Stacey can. Correct. Okay. Or whatever.

Like put it in his bag. All right. And in that package, there was a map and then there was all those other documents in that package. Correct. Physical copies of those documents. Correct. Okay. So could I ask you tonight before you go back to Ohio or first thing tomorrow? Sure. Now that the fire chief is back, could you send that whole package PDF-wise electronically to the chief? To the chief? You want us to? I just assumed he was getting the paper copy. That's fine. Chris, why don't you, you've had the contact, why don't you do it? ASAP, tonight or tomorrow. Copy myself, Stacey, the applicant, and then Stacey will get it out to the board to make sure the board knows. And in that, indicate to, and he's just back from vacation, so be nice to him. I'm sure he's got a lot on his plate, just indicate what this is and what this represents. It's the final iteration of about three different meetings that we've had back and forth. you meeting with the applicant, the three of us, you and myself and one of the board members, I don't remember if you were there, Peter, but Dave Church was there. We hashed out for a couple of hours, all of the issues. And then we went through it again at the planning board meeting. So that final set of documents from 31st is a result of about three different meetings with a whole host of people going through it and asking for more information, understanding what it was. So just explain to him what it represents.

And the equally important meeting is the meeting the applicant had at the fire department.

And then in that, what you sent him, in addition to the phone call that Chris made, you may indicate that you're seeking a meeting with him to go through this in detail. Either this week or next week. Yeah, it'll be a follow-up to the calls that we've made to him. Okay, so I suspect that it won't happen until next week. This is Monday. We're almost into Tuesday. I'm sure he has a lot on his plate.

Well, we haven't seen his truck there on the way back. What do you think?

He sleeps in his truck? I'm sure he's home. Or on the road or something. At a fire, at an event. Okay. Does the board have any comments? I haven't seen all these documents.

You might have comments.

Sorry. Jen?

I have a few minor comments.

Okay, go ahead.

So the, on the site plans?

Yes.

Note 30 is something like, If a thermal incident occurs, the area that is damaged will be covered with the trouble remediation shall be performed as needed. Can you just clarify pursuant to whatever standards apply or hazardous materials remediation is required in the design or something? It just says as needed, but it doesn't clarify what that means.

Okay.

Do you know what I mean? If it's hazardous materials, there's usually like standards that go along with whatever they're remediating. That was the only comment I had.

Jenna, I think it was you who had asked for the risk assessment. It's in there.

Yeah, and I reviewed that. I really appreciated that because that's... I don't know if everybody reviewed it, but it made it much easier to understand. And there were a few categories. I don't have it open in front of me. There were a few categories that were listed as moderate, I want to say, but... which piqued my interest, but it was moderate because the outcome was so significant. So it was still a very, very low likelihood of occurring, but it was elevated to moderate only because of the . It wasn't, to me, what that seemed like.

Yeah, it was a little bit of a tough read. But if anybody is interested in a thing that's somewhat tough for you, it's the risk assessment. It's in the document that was sent with the non-intent of the documents.

I think it's very clearly explained how you went through the process of getting the guardrails. And you were shaking your head. It was good. I really liked it. Yeah.

Jordan, you had comments? Yeah, I have. decided to comment on the quick response guide. As I understand, so there is a isolation area and there is requirements 50 feet space if something happens to like a bus in abnormal condition. So if a bus is movable, you take it into isolation area. But if a bus is not movable, it seems to me you have to move adjacent buses within 50 feet. Is that how it's logical to fall? If a bus is not movable because it's smoking, and your instruction says don't tighten, then you have to take other buses next to it and move them out. So that should be kind of explicitly said in your instruction.

The issue is the safety of the people who would have to go move those other buses comes into equation. So if there's active flame smoke, they're not going to be able to potentially get to the next two adjacent buses. The ones they can get to safely and at the direction of the first incident commander, they would try to move those. So we can't direct an employee to move a bus next to a bus that's in an emergency situation in a thermal high-level. OK, then it's adjacent bus can be affected as well.

So we feel that the early detection system will eliminate 99% of that situation.

We're going to know. Then you probably should elaborate a little bit in your response guide for . Or maybe you can. Don't go in a bus, but just attach something and pull it up.

I guess what Surya is asking is the possibility that your early detection systems bailed you to 10. Buses on fire in the line, you know, the line of 10, the line of 10. Yeah, I wouldn't want to be the one told to go get the other buses out of there. I'd hand in my resignation. But all the other buses that are not yet part of the conflagration, if that's what happens.

If it's on fire, then it's an active incident. And so the incident commander, likely the fire department, would be directing what to do at that point in time. And we will follow those directions. Right, right.

I can't get to say it explicitly in your previous plans, Glenn, because again...

Okay, no, it's a fair point.

I'm just trying to get across.

It's a fair point. So what you believe from a safety point of view, from your experience, is the thing to say. Just say it in there. Yeah, fair point.

We can do it.

Anything else? Peter? Did we ever get, and I apologize I've been absent from a few meetings, but did we ever get notice from Central Hudson that they can provide power here? Has that ever been official? I know we asked.

Yeah, Central Hudson. There's a document in there from Central Hudson.

Also, I did some Googling, and Central Hudson, just FYI, has a website you can go to that shows the system, and it identifies corridors and how much capacity they have. And the 209 corridor has lots of capacity. But there's some areas, there's interesting areas in the town that don't have any extra that would not be suitable. So it was kind of cool to look at.

Yeah. Yeah, other question. So what does this story know is the problem? Did you meet CEO discussion? Was it? PowerCube. PowerCube? The control union? Where are we putting it? I think is the question. Yeah.

Yeah, what was the plan? We're hoping to put it in the setback. We're seeking a variance.

We're going to seek a variance. If this is approved, we would then seek a variance. Right.

So right now, the status of that issue, it's with the CEO, correct?

It's with the CEO. As of last week, Stacy and Courtney were working with Heath directly to figure out the best plan forward as to either, is he going to allow it to be an accessory and approve it? right off of that, or would we have to go through the CBA? So he hasn't responded formally. We may not.

So the argument you're raising with him is that it's an accessory use, not the one that you originally suggested, that it was a temporary structure, which was what you told us?

I'll recant that. I believe we indicated it as a temporary structure.

Okay. Well, so what I'll do is I'll send a note to Stacey. I see she's not here. First thing tomorrow to find out what the status of it is, because I know they met and I didn't, I didn't get a resolution for this meeting.

I mean, what I, what I suggested to the board at the last meeting was that we could proceed regardless of the zoning termination and ultimately with the goal at the end toward giving a conditional approval based on the zoning. That way, they're just offline on the other side and that would not impede our flow. If the board, that's up to the board, but that's a way to continue this as long as that's where they want to put it. So I think the next. Say that again. They indicated that as being the recommended spot.

we communicated that they haven't made the the ceo had not made a decision yet that that's up that art we we made that that yes this is for such a hundred hasn't recommended to reduce the amount of cable so um just procedurally the next step has to be to go back to the fire department and get their input

And then we'll see what that input is. And we'll ask for that in writing. And then I think it's time that we as a board make a decision, whatever way those discussions go. So the board will have to make a discussion. If those discussions are positive, fine. If they're not, the board is going to have to make a decision. I think it's appropriate. Unless there's something that was missed. And I don't believe that there was from all the comments that were gone through all these series of meetings. So we want to give the courtesy to the fire department to look at what we've done and see whether or not they can be supportive of it. So I think, again, procedurally, the next step, this is the 10th. my intent was not to have you on the agenda for the next meeting at the end of this month that could change depending upon what the fire department says and if that's the case we could be in the position to then have the decision written uh and an eventual vote i'll call it a conditional approval or no approval it might be voted down i don't know um for the early september But that's all speculation on my part of all the pieces have to fall into place and have to happen. I do think that it's time that we move this to a written decision one way or the other, and then make our decision. Okay?

And that vote obviously would not take place tonight.

Oh, no. Due to... Well, due to the fact that I want to give the fire department the... Okay. Yeah, I thought I made that clear.

We appreciate that. We appreciate your understanding.

I was hoping they would come tonight, but I understand.

Just so I'm clear, and I know I'm interpreting this, so... probably not on the 831 agenda unless something changes and possibly on the one hand things could be said.

Yeah, I've been telling everybody that you can't get on the 831 agenda because that's the meeting that we're going to make a decision on Verizon.

Well, no, and actually, Mike was like, I'm not sure that's going to be.

So I don't know that you want to be.

So that's what I'm talking about.

Unless we're the first ones to get rid of us in a nice way. And then, you know, I don't know.

You might save us. I was going to reply with, here we are.

I'm bringing Prozac for that. But I believe, if the board disagrees, I believe we have enough information to make a decision. With the absence of the fire department, that's the last remaining piece weighing in. The issue with zoning and all that, Dave is right. You can get your conditional approval. uh subject to all these other things from the zoning perspective so early september what's the first 14th 14th right that's the first meeting sorry yeah yeah the way the dates work yeah that's right

And only reason we cannot do it on such a first provided the fire department approves it because of Verizon. You don't want to get too many students.

I don't want a whole bunch of things on that agenda, but I could change my mind, right? I'll let you know. All states or midnight, I want to be.

I still, I would consider it to be honest.

I think we owe it to the applicant. We heard from the public today. We have federal funding. If we could squeeze it in, I think it would be a good thing.

What I didn't tell you is that I am going to put Topeth Road on the agenda just to catch the board up at the end of August at the same meeting as Verizon.

Can we switch them out? That shouldn't stop us.

This would be a third item on the agenda.

I would put Topeth to September. This, I think, with the federal funding...

I really would strongly recommend that. Really. All right.

Well, let's see.

I would really request that we do that.

I'll take note of it. As long as you guys are fine with being here late that night. That's fine.

That's okay. But I mean, what's the compelling... No, no, no. What is the compelling reason to put TOEFAN on the agenda? Have they been asking?

Yeah, they've been asking to be on the agenda. They have just about everything in. I'm just waiting for Dave to do the write-up. He might be able to do it while he's on vacation.

So that being the case, I'd like to be able to... Yeah, I really do.

I'm thinking in terms of getting a business project. I can see that side.

We'll see. Okay. So we anticipate leaving with the fire department. Will there be a representative from the board there as well, or?

I'll definitely be there. Peter has indicated he would prefer not to be part of that. Our engineers will be there. And I'll ask another member of the board. I'll send out a note saying, here's where the meeting is. I want one more meeting. First one to say yes is who's going to be. So there'll be one more person.

I appreciate that. And then after that meeting, when will we know if we're all...

Immediately thereafter. Okay, fair enough.

Okay.

I'm not trying to hold you guys up. We appreciate everything. There's a reality in getting... Dave and I are going to be hard at work doing the Verizon decision. So getting a decision done for you guys for that same meeting or... There's no easy task.

I can't be any more blunt.

It's a lot of work. Most of which Dave is doing. Well, anyway, I'm not going to tell you what to do. Yes, I will tell you. It takes... And Dave has kind of got it done, but it's been taking him hours. We list all the documents, and I guess it's just part of some cases have been won on a document not being listed in the decision document, if you can believe it. The court has found against the finding. There you go. The lady knows. There's 400 documents that have to be listed and listed accurately as to date. what it's all about, the whole nine yards. He started already to get that done. So just, anyway. Anybody else? I see where you're going. I forgot about it. Chris, tell me if I'm forgetting anything.

comments, Michael and I spoke earlier about the delineation of the isolation area in the gravel area, just so that we have some sort of a means. And also in microscope, they're probably going to end up striking in the pavement area, part of the isolation area that's not reflected on the plans, that would just have to be reflected on the plans. And for the photometric plan, if you could just provide the dark stack compliant lights that you're going to be placing on the building, just all the fixtures the fixtures so that we can right now you're you're not showing any lighting on your floor metric plan so you have no lights in the front of the parking area yeah so comply you'd like to see some lighting in that front area and where you're realizing those uh light poles and mike you can aggregate all these additional changes um in anticipation of a final map you don't have to keep sending us comments yeah i'm just no I understand. We spoke earlier and we clarified a few items and we think we're going to remove the SW plan from the package.

Okay. Anybody else? And then the two other items that, um, Patty, Ms. Patty, um, um, we indicated to her that there is no lot expansion. We're sticking to the parcel size that we're on. And then in regards to electrical feeds, we're coming from the transformer directly off that pole onto or not into our power .

And then it's underground, so she will likely see no additional lines.

She indicated the draw. or for the feed, and obviously, Kevin.

Yes, she was concerned. So she did what she said. Since she had a subsequent question, she said, will this impact the grid? And we indicated, as Jennifer indicated, this 209 corridor has an excess supply of electricity, so there's no harm there. And that we particularly charged after 9 o'clock at night when the grid is already at its lowest, you know, less stress on it as well. I don't think I'm satisfied with that.

I think she was also the lady who in the past has complained about the lights, the bleeding of the lights on her property. Did she mention that? She did not bring that up. Okay.

And we make sure she had our contact information and the location manager. Okay. So if there's an issue, she can stop by and we'll of course invite her in the open house we have.

With the elimination of the floodlights, I think it's going to be a really benefit. All right.

Yeah.

So the next, I have a question.

What are you guys doing with the other five buses? Are you getting those? Where are they going?

Well, yeah, I think at this point, we don't, I mean, we've landed on the 20. So I think we might be giving those up unless we have something.

The school is looking at a couple of options with a couple of other finance organizations, but it looks doubtful that we'll be able to save those five. So we would have to return them as a pre-based EPA. It's unfortunate it's round one. Round three, they allow us more flexibility on our needs rebates, but round one, maybe not.

So you may not get the old fine process.

I would say it's unlikely that we'll be able to work that. And it's a finance issue for the school district. They would have to come up with how to pay for the infrastructure. They were looking at a microgrid, right, call as a possible solution.

Okay.

And I got the feeling that EPA is going to say, sorry, unless you have a plan ready to go in the next few months, they're going to ask for that money back. Because we wouldn't have been able to put them on this thing. Oh, besides.

Oh, is it because of the cycle strings? Or because of?

Well, the problem is, if we try to come up with a secondary site at That's got a couple challenging wings to it, including you have to redo all the infrastructure. So you're doubling all the costs.

Maybe we're going to contact somebody at Ulster Pharmacy because I think they're building up EV charging. And there may be an ability to piggyback on some of that and reduce economic costs like economies of scale. Does this use standard chargers?

Well, it's low level, level three. So it's not, you know, what you see for cars. And that's part of the problem. I mean, one of the issues is Central Hudson and Serta had a grant program, but it would only pay for 180 kilowatt chargers. And we don't need 180 kilowatt chargers. You know, we're in the 30 range. So there's just some problems there. And the biggest point is, is that under round one, the way EPA structured the money, We can't spend it however we want. $375,000 has to go to the bus, and $20,000 has to go to the infrastructure. And so I can get the bus for less than $375,000, but even if I got it for $200,000, I can't then say I can spend it the way it's structured. They made a mistake. They admitted it. They corrected that going forward. So we're limited. I don't have a lot of play. I've only got $20,000 per bus for infrastructure. So that's 100,000 to put toward infrastructure. And that's just not going to, building a whole new system. I could add five more at our current location and make it work. I can't build a whole new system for $100,000. All right.

Anybody else? Was that where your question was pointed? Yeah. I was wondering like,

districts from what I read, what do you do about school trips and charging visiting buses if they're already and stuff like that to the school district?

How do you handle that? We call them activity trips. They're not home to school. We generally use the fossil fuel fleet to cover that. We rarely go 100% electric. If we go 100%, it's because we're at a location that also serves other school districts that has fossil fuel. However, we have started with our Canadian fleet, which we have the most experience with, We have started running activities with those. And what we do is our system, and it's on the tablet that the driver has, identifies all public chargers that are appropriate for that bus, can also fit a bus to park at that charger, and then a link to see if that charger is operational. So we are looking to expand as an activity trip. They would be qualified.

of most other things we would not be using the evs right yeah if there's a local trip you use them if you're playing syracuse in the football playoffs then you're on a diesel right or something like that is how it kind of unfolded we think with the next generation we'll get greater range

The range now, and it depends on the air temperature, but what is it on average, 225, 250?

Well, it depends on the battery pack, right? So the small end, we've got 196 kilowatt hour battery pack from Bluebird. At the high end, which are these, are the IC 315 kilowatt hour battery packs. Those we can get about 200 miles out of on a normal day, really cold days. you're gonna drop into the 180, 190 range. Same for a really, really hot dose.

Okay. All right, so next steps. Chris, you're gonna send this package to the fire department.

You're welcome.

All right, and you're also going to get the meeting going and then alert us to the, okay.

And that's... May I ask one question? On that meeting with the fire, depending on schedule, can we do some of that virtual so some of our team members cannot... Yeah, I don't see why not.

Sure. Thank you. I'm promising that we probably... I don't probably have to use... the computer here at the office for Pat. Yes. Can Pat do stuff virtually? I think so. I think we've done it. He's done it? Yeah. Okay. So, yeah, we ought to be able to accomplish that.

Yeah, we'll do.

We'll do our best to get people here just in case. Yeah, just in case. I think it's very valuable, the face-to-face.

it is we we agree just timing sometimes timing if you say we're gonna be thirsty well i can't do better you know so they just from my own understanding at the fire department they have like a screen similar to what you have here now they have a projection but you'd probably do it on a computer

What I think would be would be helpful for probably for all of us is whoever's, you know, if you could offer up a few alternatives, like, hey, here are three days, because then we can all look and be like, man, that's the one that wins for everybody. I can only bring my laptop there. We'll try to be we'll try to be live. that one of us can't make it. And also, that's St. James.

Yeah, we'll sort it out.

Yeah, that's our biggest challenge.

And I appreciate the board's desire to get this resolved. So I agree. We appreciate that.

Yeah, really. You guys want to talk for three more hours?

No, we're good. Thanks.

We appreciate you all for that.

Actually, we are going to be talking, and it depends on how long the bullet talks. Thank you, guys. Thank you. Thank you. So the next item on the agenda is, and Chris and Christian will people stay. The next item on the agenda is to talk about the proposal from the town board. They would like our input regarding Thank you. Food trucks. Does everybody have the documents?

No, I don't think we need you. I'm going to talk taco truck and show you want to go.

Taco truck? Taco truck.

Yeah. Who was the applicant? It was, you know, like a year ago.

Well, that was Mena Weggs. Yeah, Mena Weggs. He missed them.

Yeah. He missed them. He missed them too. So at this point, I don't know who you are. No. I'll jump with you. I'll jump with you. I'll jump with you. I'll jump with you. Yeah. Okay. All right.

So in your agenda that Stacey sent out, you have access to the documents. I know Jen sent me some comments. And a couple of you spoke to me privately about your thoughts towards food trucks.

Thank you for speaking.

And I don't think it does too much good for me to go to read the whole thing. You don't want me to read it to you? You know what's out there? There's a whole bunch of here to fors and where to fors that the town is proposing in the new code, ranging from, I guess, essentially, there'll be two kinds of permits. One is going to be a seasonal permit, which goes for nine months, and then there'll be what I'll call a daily permit. And there are limitations in terms of how many times a particular lot can have a truck parked there that is either on a daily basis or on a seasonal basis. So there was some rules around that. There's some rules around how far it can or can't be from a restaurant, the front door of a restaurant. There's some parking regs. I think it was at least four spots, if I remember. And those spots, if it's being parked at a restaurant spot, it can't interfere with whatever the required amount of parking was to begin with for the restaurant. So if the restaurant has 100 spots and that's it, The food truck can't borrow four of those spots. There has to be another four spots available in order to make it work. So whatever the requirement is, it can't be interfered with buying the food truck. So does anybody have any comments, questions? And Michael just happens to be here, so he could probably answer. He can answer probably some questions we may have that I don't have the answers to. Go ahead, Lena.

So... local law x i believe it says it was 82-7 exceptions and it says special event and it said um they could if you were having a private event and you were using a boot truck as a caterer they would need a permit so that to me i Do caterers require, if you're having 200 people and you're catering for 200 people, does a caterer need a permit? Here you might, instead of having a caterer, you want to cater with having a food truck. No sales, yet it's, I believe it was 82-7A under special events, and it says they need to get a one-day permit. I don't know if that's equitable, if that's fair.

And the lack of equity, explain the lack of equity.

To caterers who come in to cater an event of 200 people, do they need a permit?

I don't think they do. I don't believe they do.

Right. So if I want to cater 200 people by having a food truck, now I have to, I voted. or the caterer, has to incur the cost. That doesn't seem...

I don't have an answer to that. I know.

It's just something that struck me.

If I was putting myself in the shoes of the code enforcement or whatever, I'd say, well, yeah, it's a food truck. Caterer comes in with their truck. They unload everything. They set it up in the backyard. They do their thing. This is a food truck that's going to be parked on a property in a residential area, going to be parked there for two, three, four, five hours, and people queuing up to the food truck. That... But no, they don't need a permit for.

Right. And some caterers have outdoor kitchens and things of that nature. So it just doesn't.

So are you suggesting that the food truck doesn't need a permit?

For a catered event without sales, I don't.

I tend to agree with you. That's a smart observation. I didn't think about that.

Yeah, under the special events. It doesn't seem equitable.

You're right.

You know, and as somebody who has, you know, done events, people have looked into caterers to be more expensive, getting or doing it yourself is very difficult. It should be, the rules should apply for both. Right? Okay. Okay. Sorry.

Everybody have a positive sense to that?

That's a good point. Because he could cater with a food truck.

Yeah. And if you were having sales, I understand that. And I know people that have catered with food trucks because, you know, having big events, shoots, those kind of events, they have looked into the food trucks. So it should be this. I think for special events on private property, it should be the same.

Okay. Do you do it for both or do it for none?

Correct.

Okay.

And then the only other thing that I caught was on 82-4. I think that was local law-wide. It was mentioning allowed in the zoning districts. And I'm wondering, should we spell out in parens the next state sentence should identify those zoning districts so you don't have to cross.

They do. And in the other, there were two.

Right. One was X and I think one was Y. And I think it was.

Can I make a suggestion? Should we not do that? Because I've been on the other side of the table where I'm trying to follow town codes and they'll update when... side of it and then they don't update the other. So then they say two different things. Does that make sense? Yeah.

Dream of consciousness as I was reviewing those.

I'll let the attorneys for the town figure it out.

I can't tell you how many times I've gone to a town and they updated one part of the code and not the other and it conflicts and you're like, I don't know.

Yeah, when I see allowed in zoning districts which allow food service Yeah, I know it should be spelled that out, but if it's so you don't have to cross reference.

So if I understand the way they structured this, they're setting up a section called 82, whatever. So it has something to do with 140 dash or 125 dash. And then they're also making changes in 140 in the zoning code to indicate what area, what... zones um would allow be allowed to have food trucks present so they're making change they're proposing changes to that too they're putting in both definitions and in the schedule of uses that chart yeah they're updating the schedule of uses and that's part of zoning code 140.

That's all.

I understand, but it does make sense to put it in the schedule of uses.

Yeah, absolutely.

Because these guys, these guys be in the billing department. That's what they use. Yeah. So it has to be in both places.

Okay. That's all. But you're advocating for. My big point was.

Put it in 82.4 as well.

Okay.

Is that what you're advocating for?

I was saying in 82.4, I think it was item E. I just put a note, spell out the zoning districts, which would allow food trucks. Is it required? It was just a thought.

Okay. I'll put it in.

What I really feel somewhat strongly about is the special events. Okay.

Did you read the exceptions in here?

827? Yeah. I thought I did. Yeah.

Did I catch something?

No, it just said that you can request who trusts Gator special events.

But they have to get a permit for one day.

Right.

Right. And if the caterer doesn't have to get a permit. And they have outdoor kitchens and outdoor whatever. I don't see the difference. Yeah.

That's just what struck me. Greg, I didn't have time to read it, but what comes to me is, so food truck would be allowed or not allowed in R3, for example?

Food truck would be allowed.

R3? AR3? AV3. What about B&B in my area, for example?

So, food trucks would be allowed in B, which is business, H, which is Hamlet, and AB3, which is agricultural business. It would not be permitted in any of the other zones.

So, what about B&B with a barn when they have special events? They wouldn't be able to bring a food truck?

You asked about a B&B? Yeah. What zone is it? R3. R3, it says it wouldn't be allowed.

So they wouldn't be able to bring...

But we don't have R3 anymore. AR3 now. AR3.

special exception.

Okay, per day. Okay, because they have a food truck in the past using food truck.

I think I think Peter is correct that it would be allowed under the special exception one day, right?

But they still would have to get a daily permit.

Yeah.

And is there a fee associated with it?

I assume so.

But the fees that so you know, then that pushes business to the caterers, not food truck.

So let's see. Okay.

That's just how I see it.

Jan?

You can go Hans.

I go from the perspective of someone who has a restaurant. Actually, our model is to collaborate a lot with food trucks because it's kind of as a pop-up version or it becomes whenever we leave the kitchen for a day. So for us, it is important that to do it easily. And I also want to take into consideration that these food trucks operate on a very, very low margin. And to put more regulation and more requirements on them, I find, I don't think this is the intention of what we should pursue.

So you're for less regulation?

It should be a very simple approval process, not costly and quickly to do it. Secondly, what I have... A lot of it. Secondly, is the towel for mousing and sometimes patients as I learned. So basically, this law would put us into a disadvantage. Right. I was the flying goose, which has food trucks every week in front of them. or Main and Main, which is also in the town of . So it really gives us a disadvantage. The third thing which I find really, really concerning is basically it says that proposed setbacks must be under the current zoning. For example, that would practically mean that Ravkat cannot have any food trucks because it's too near to the entrance to our restaurant.

I thought it said with the setbacks, the back and side setbacks are the same. Front setback is only five feet as opposed to...

It says in the permitted commercial of that use, which legally established commercial restaurant, brewery, cider, distillery setbacks. Number three, the vehicle must comply with the front, side, and rear setbacks required for the primary business's zoning district. And it also says that the food and sighting food trucks must be sighted in a manner that does not obstruct and beat or block designated emergency access for its fire lights, fire engines.

I read somewhere that it was five feet for the front.

That's what it is. I mean, it's our special setup and we have mixed existing loan control.

So there's a lot there. You said you were going to write when you talked to me. Yeah, I did. You're going to send it here.

The third thing is where I'm very concerned about is that there's a requirement for additional parking spots. And it says on the B4 here, you need to have a capacity plan approved by the planning board.

Where are you reading from? I missed that.

Which one? It's under E4. Give me 827. Yeah. 827. Under exemptions?

No, it's under... I have to find it again.

The hosting venue must demonstrate that the placement of food truck does not displace or reduce the sites available parking that makes sense below the minimum required, blah, blah, blah, unless alternative shared parking or capacity plan has been previously approved by the planning board. So I think what they're saying is... Basically, I have to go to the plan. No, no, no. You only have to go to the planning board. If you have enough, if there's enough parking... At Court Social, we told them we had to have X number of spaces, right? If they wanted to have a food truck there, should they want to have a food truck, they've got to have the required number of spaces for a food truck, but can't eat into what we already approved as part of the planning board function. If they still want to do it, they could come back to us and get us to make a shared parking arrangement. So if... I know it gets convoluted. If they're eating into what the approved parking was for a facility, like Accord Social had said, if it's eating into that, they can't do it. They have to come back here and get us to make some sort of exception.

That's what we'd be...

They're saying that because... We gave a number which we thought through and we said, this is the number. Let's just make believe it's 70 cars. We took quite a bit of time coming up with that number. And I think in our court socials case, we even said you can make them smaller. Right. So all they're saying in out of respect for what the planning board already did, you can't suck up some of those spaces for a food truck. However, if you want to, you've got to come back here and essentially get an exception made.

But they're going to use the same clients. Every business has to come for planning board.

So you don't think that they should come?

No. They give them space to try. Serving essentially the same people who would, instead of going to a restaurant, which is very unlikely, they would do that but if something additional special food but it's essentially going to be the same people who may go in a restaurant and then go to that food truck to get some unusual meal something like that and and make those owners of the business wait for planning board meeting every two weeks, or sometimes no, never get on the agenda.

Yeah. It's just like the soup Nazi.

I really think it's an unnecessary law. And I do have a question. My initial reaction when I opened it was why? So what

issue is the solving. Is there an issue that we're having with food trucks?

Michael, do you want to? Do you know? Yeah. Why are we doing this?

What is the genesis?

Because I was trying to understand my comments are relevant to the problem we're trying to solve, right?

So what's the... Well, I don't want to opine as a board member, but the issue was that someone came forward wanting to have a food truck. It's not currently in the code.

Okay.

So... Board could allow that use, if I'm stating this correctly, could approve that as a use not considered. If we were to approve it as a use not considered, it becomes an open use across the board within that district that would approve it. So if we approve it as a use not considered in business, then it becomes, within the business district, people can do food trucks. The thought was, and this is definitely the board had was, This should be something that is easier for people to do. That is a simple process of going to the building department and not have to come to the bank. But to do that, we should set standards and rules so that we don't run into unintended consequences. And suddenly there's food trucks where it complicates traffic or other things. So we said, let's put it into the zoning code so that there's something for the building department when somebody comes in and says, I want to do a food truck. they can look at, and then it's a simple approval process.

That makes sense. So then my comment would be, let's approve it, require a permit, don't put restrictions, and see if there are issues. Because we're a small town, I don't think this is going to be a big problem. I would be inclined to say, here's 80 bucks, get a permit, have fun, and see what happens. And if there are issues, then we can tailor the code to actually address the problems that we're having in the town, whatever those may be. I don't know what they may be. It could be that this is spot on and a year from now, we're like, oh my gosh, we should have just done it back then. Or we might find that it's a non-issue and people love eating their tacos and Jamaican food and their, you know, whatever, that they have a great time.

I know there was one issue and... Was there an issue specifically? It was right here in that court where there was the... the fish truck, I think is the name of the- Yeah, Montauk Pet Catcher. Montauk, yeah. They wanted to park, they were parking in front of, or in a parking lot of a proprietor in Angkor. And it created some consternation on the part of some of the residents. And the building department didn't want to get involved. You know, they looked at it and said, well, is this an accessory use? Was it listed as an accessory use? They talked to me. They had the new enemy, Peter, at one point in time. I said, I don't know. I said, why don't you try it and see if you get slapped? that's not necessarily the way to look at it either. So in that case, I mean, if you know the size of that parking lot over there and most of many of the parking lots, uh, They're really small. And so, you know, do you need to have some standards to say, well, yeah, you could do it here, but you can't do it here because you only got five parking spots to begin with. How are you going to squeeze in a food truck? On the other hand, if you can make it work, who the heck cares? I think the biggest concern in some situations is do you have three, four, five, 10 cars lined up on the street, parked, they run in and get there, whatever they have to get, and then they come out. So you've got these cars parked on a street where there's not supposed to be any parking because they're small streets anyway. I'm exaggerating, but that's an example of- Stan, the neat, I mean, and Mike, you gave a great- Yeah, I thought that was a good explanation.

Why we need it. Because if you give one approval, then it's a blanket approval, which I didn't know that's how it works. So it makes sense. It's just, I think we just have to tweak things. And the one thing I'm back, I'm looking at the special event. And I think that they also mentioned they can't have more than two events a year. So let's say I'm having a lot of parties and I want to cater, you know, again, bringing it down to the cater. So we need to be a little bit more specific because the last line.

Which section are you looking at?

827A, the last line, it says, in such cases, Sales shall be limited to event attendees only. So there should be some kind of a distinction between people going up and purchasing versus using a food truck for catering.

might be getting into the weeds now a little bit my concern is my concern is that it really disadvantages the food trucks and everybody goes the easier route for catering and puts like a little tank up because that doesn't require a permit so and actually it it's an easy way to circumvent this this new law because i just put like we just put a tent up but i put a tent out so

I just think my hope is... That one's going to get them a violation from the ability of the law because just putting a tent up like that

On private property?

Oh, on private property. Yeah, let's say, I mean, I invite them.

Oh, selling to the public.

Sales. Yeah. I think if you're going to use a food truck for catering, I don't think it should be subject to... Or sales, though. You know, I don't think it's a big difference.

Okay, so let's do that. Any other comments?

I mean, I sent Rick my comments. I think that it should be scaled, just generally speaking. I think it should be scaled back. I think there's So, and I'm coming from the perspective of somebody who works in a massive bureaucracy and all we do is make more rules to fix minor issues.

And it's like, and then who enforces those rules?

Well, so what ends up happening is like something happens and now we have to make a rule about it. And then it just starts layering on itself to where it just becomes.

I guess I can have a philosophical discussion with you about, is it the case that people who do things at the spur of the moment, are they reasonable? Do they care about their neighbors? The answer to that is sometimes, but a lot of times they don't. So if you say you can kind of do whatever you want, let's just hope it works out. You do have a, Some people who could give a hoot, whether it impacts traffic, impacts anybody else. And so you try to at least have some semblance of rules so it's not a free-for-all. So this is a semblance of rules. So I don't see where it's overwhelming. bureaucracy. I mean, why don't we just, why don't we not have a planning board? Just let everybody.

That's a completely different story. Okay. So my comments were on citing food trucks shall be located a minimum of 150 feet from main entrance to any restaurant. My comment was consider decreasing the setback or adding text to clarify if the food truck is associated with restaurant that that doesn't apply. Right. Because I think the setback is an intended, so you don't have a food truck pull up next to a restaurant. But if the restaurant, if Arrowwood is inviting its trucks, they shouldn't have to observe the setback. The next one was number and size of food trucks. A maximum of three food trucks shall be permitted per lot at any one time. I think that should be increased. I think if people want to have like pop-up food festivals or something like that, and I don't know, I don't see it.

So that might be so, but then you get into, well, how big does a lot have to be to have 10 food trucks on it?

I'm not going to opine on that. I think maybe it's based, this is where we get.

That's why you need rules.

Does the town of Rochester support 10, 20 food trucks showing up? I don't see that happening. How many food trucks do we have in Rochester? I don't know.

I've only seen two.

It's really not an issue. Yeah, I'm talking about quantity. I don't think that there should be, I mean, if you're going to put a capacity on it. I mean, honestly, it's such a problem.

The other one, the other comment was under the same 82-5C, the maximum number of permits that may be issued.

and outstanding for any lot per year shall be one seasonal and three daily. And I think the seasonal should be increased. We should have more than one food truck. I said three, but that's kind of arbitrary. I mean, all this feels a little arbitrary, but like three so that you can have three. I mean, the whole thing, in my opinion, that's great about trucks is you can get variety. It's fun when there's a few and you can go and you can try different things. Having one is like fine, but I don't think it has the same draw if it's limited to only one. And that the whole fun of it is that you get, I mean, like the farmer's market in Kingston, it's fun. There's a bunch of different food trucks that you can go try to fix. The other one was operations. Food truck operators must demonstrate a minimum of four parking spaces on the lot. And then there's language in their parentheticals for on an immediately adjacent lot with owner permission. And my comment is, We may want to modify the text in 140 to clarify that adjacent parcels are acceptable and then clarify who gets the permit. If the parking is on an adjacent parcel, how does that fold into the permit? Because it's unclear how that will be reviewed. Is it a note that you bring in when you get your permit? I don't know how that's verified. Does that make sense? Because the text just isn't clear. And then it says no lighting is permitted except for lighting that's used within a food truck. And I suggested adding... or for outside seating because it permits outside seating. So this way, you can have some lighting inside to make it cooler, but you could also have lighting at the table where people might be eating. And then in Chapter 140, it's permitted as an accessory use. There's text there. I suggested adding farmers markets to the list because it's not currently included. That could be relevant. And then amending to include like pop-up commercial events, because that's also not explicitly.

So here's what I'm going to do, because I don't think we're going to come to a consensus as to recommendations. Sounds like some of us, let's just see what happens. And others, you know, you do need some kind of order because Invariably, you hear people complaining about, I don't want to see that in my neighborhood. And so they run to the building department. The building department says, no, I'm just going to shut it down because they're not supposed to have it because there's no rules regarding it. So let's make some rules. So I understand. The one here in town, he was pretty much shut down because there were no rules. What else could they do? Got a complaint from a neighbor. They have to respond to it. It's not in the code anywhere. So they couldn't make an interpretation. They couldn't stretch it. long enough so they closed it down wouldn't it be better to have some way of allowing something like that if in fact the town board who's responsible for what things look like and how things operate have some sort of rules so i think that's what was probably prompting this But I know I'm not going to convince everybody to that because in Switzerland, they have no rules. You know, they have great business and they have a better index when it comes to freedom of business and all this other kind of stuff.

I mean, it's like regulation costs money. Well, it does.

And a lack of regulation creates chaos.

But not if you layer it and layer it and layer it. That's what we do in this case.

This is meant to be some sort of tiny, itsy-bitsy layering to at least provide those people inside there with something to work with.

Okay, well, it doesn't have to be as free.

Here's what I'm going to do. How about I do this?

Okay.

Send me your comments, and I'm going to pack them all together and just say, on this one, we can't come to a consensus. We trust you. Do what you think is best. However, there's considerable, let's not over-regulate something that is fun.

Well, I think we can step back and just say, do you guys agree we should have food trucks here?

Yeah. That's a good thing. Yeah.

Then there are some specific things that people have questions about that could be modified in the legislation about the, you know, the permit fee.

Or there should be an exception for food trucks used as neighbors.

And I think all in all, I think, I mean, I think it's a good thing, but I also agree that I wouldn't want my neighbor to have a food truck every weekend running a little generator until 10, 11 o'clock at night. Yeah.

They have to comply with the noise code.

And there's no, one of the first things I ran to check is- I think the point that is making is you need some sort of rules. You need rules.

I get the rules.

That's part of the society here.

What was your statement? I was very pleased that one of the things that was explicit in the code is that they're not allowed to make any, there's no loudspeakers or music allowed. Right. Which if you've ever lived in New York City, you know that the ice cream trucks are the bait of your existence in the summer.

And so I was happy that- You don't like Mr. Softies? You don't like the jingle from Mr. Now we know how to get to Jen.

All right.

Nice cream truck is coming.

So I got written comments from Jen. I invite her. I promise you will have some fun with this when I send it to the town board. But the sense I'm getting is. Let's encourage it with some modicum of rule that respects the neighbors. Let's put it that way.

We can have a food truck here for planning work.

That's a very good pizza truck at Tripitari. There should come. Yeah.

Okay.

But farmers alone, right? The farmer alone.

So Jen, thanks for your comments. And I'll get those out. I want yours because and I'll just get one or two. And then I'll copy you all on it when I send it to you. Thank you. I hope you enjoy. Thank you. Enjoy. Yeah. Okay. Anything else?

I make a motion to make a motion.

Hang on one second. I will try to do this soon.

Do we need to do the minutes?

I had to think for a second. We did them. I will try to get these guys on for the 31st. I was just, I was just edgy.

I appreciate it. But I think at this point, you know, early on in the process, I know I had a lot of safety questions, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And I'm very confident now and to risk the 10 million. I think we need to get them, even though they did admit to me because, you know, when I met with Michael Klein, I said, so why did you wait? Why? Why did you disappear for six months?

Six months was a year.

Whatever it was. And he said, well, because they didn't think that they, you know, they're illegal, didn't think they needed to go through this process and it cost them. But, you know, that's what happened. Oh, yeah. That's what he told me when I had my site visit a few weeks ago.

They're referring to the illegals from Ohio. Correct. Things are different in Ohio.

Correct. And they learned the lesson. And he did admit to me that going forward, it will help them ultimately. So anyway, as such, I just think that at their point with the federal government and funding, they've been slashing all of that. We really should try and expedite this at this point. And can I also tell you, I had no idea there was no air conditioning on these buses. Yeah, me too.

Yeah, I knew that. My kids take it.

Yeah, I mean, it's been a long time. I figured they modernized.

How do we know electrical bus will have air conditioning? Does it say anywhere? Pardon? How do we know that electrical bus will have air conditioning? Does it say anywhere?

That's what they said, and they were saying it tonight.

And they have a little diesel motor on each bus that runs it.

They're not running the air conditioning off the EV. They have a little diesel in there that runs the air conditioning. I don't know.

I took a bus for...

I used to walk to and from school uphill each way, but I used to, I took a bus. I'm fine. I don't have any diseases.

I don't know what they're, but anyway. I'll take a motion to adjourn. Go ahead, Jen.

I'll take a motion to adjourn. I'm going to second it.

All in favor?

Aye.

All right, so don't forget, we got the meeting the 31st. I'll let you know real soon if we can get it.