City Council - Regular Meeting

Please rise as you're able for the Pledge of Allegiance.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Welcome everybody to our September 9th, 2026 City Council meeting. As we begin every City Council meeting, we start with an open comment period. This is an opportunity for members of the public to speak on items that we will not be taking public testimony during a public hearing later in the agenda. Each person has up to two minutes to speak for a total of 20 minutes. I will be keeping track of time through two methods. One, the stoplight here at the dais, and then the red digital clock to my left. So please know that I may need to cut you off after two minutes. Because of the limited time, we also ask people to keep their comments concise and speak to the scope and jurisdiction of the council's ability to affect policy. Council members and staff do not respond to your comments during public comment, but will instead follow up on any specific requests. that you have separately. If you have materials to share with the council, you may give them to the city clerk, who is to my right here, and she will distribute them to the council. With that, I will invite folks up as they signed in, and first is Mr. Wes Lund. And Mr. Lund, you may have to, you'll have to push the button that says push, up, there you go. It's on already. Testing? Yep, it's on. It's already on. Yep, it is. Go ahead.

Thank you. Winter is coming, and I'm saddened by the number of homeless people that I see on the streets of Rochester, under the trees and in the bushes. And multiple times I've been in this room, And I've heard Heidi Walsh explain why our county needs increased funding for programs. I've listened to City Administrator Alison Zalms argue for increased budgets. Sometimes I've been the only person attending those meetings from the community. I've heard Aaron Parrish argue for increased budgets and spending. And it's time to plan for winter as Minnesotans normally do. A lot of people have come to Rochester in quest of these fictitious small, tiny homes that were much touted. We need to do something to plan ahead to get these folks housed before the snow flies, perhaps in as little as a month. Weather reports say that it may be a tough winter this year. I encounter homeless people regularly. And I'm grieved that some of them from Southern California, some of them from Missouri, they don't understand our weather. And a second storm, that last blizzard hit, and I was explaining to someone how our spring works. There could be another storm. It was a false spring we had this year. I'm regularly handing out these booklets to homeless people and trying to help them find resources in Rochester. I know we have a program for, and this is horrible, but we immolate people at a cost of $2,158. That's an Olmstead County program for paying for unknown bodies or destitute people who can't afford their own funeral expenses is that the time already or is that no no you're okay that's one of my council members who had did not silence their phone so in any case um uh it's a six seven moment for me go ahead um i'm just saying that let's do something to help the homeless and put some of our tax dollars we were told you know the tax the We had radicals in the room chanting and saying we need our taxes to go up. Our property taxes go up. It makes our homes less affordable. But let's put some of that money, let's give $20,000 to the Salvation Army that was denied last time around by a certain someone. Let's support the landing. Let's get these folks housed before the snow flies. And I'll end early. 18 seconds left. No, actually, that's 20 seconds over because I let you go over because there was an interruption. Bless you, Council President.

Okay, Mr. Lund. Next, we have Jeff Derby.

Council, thank you. I'm here to speak about the upcoming sewer plans for the goose egg Park area Coming up from I live on 8th Street and 4th Avenue and then down to 6th Avenue specifically I'm here to ask that we do not put in curbs in that area My house was built in 1900. It's never had a curb. We don't see the need for it. But everybody in this neighborhood is my friend. I consider them family. They kind of asked that I would come and speak on behalf of this matter for all of them. And we just want to say, like, if there's a special assessment, which we have reason to believe there will be, I just want to mention, like, Dave and Aurora are on Social Security. Linda is on Social Security. These are homeowners. Patty is disabled. Her dog pulled her over and broke her shoulder. Bailey's a renter, if there's a special assessment, we don't want affordable housing to become unaffordable, because it might pass that cost on. Dustin is an amputee, he doesn't work. Montana and her husband had a lot of home renovations that they had to take care of. Want to have a baby soon, they can't afford it. Frank and Jackie are retired. And then the point about the curbs, if it diverts the water all to the river that goes to Goose Egg Park, sorry, Cook Park, if we put in curbs and that water that normally just goes into our backyards, into our garden, waters the trees, If that all goes to the river, and we're talking like two, three square miles of land that all goes down to that river, the homes next to the river now are at risk of flooding. And then the tree that is in the boulevard on my property, according to an app, so it's accurate, right? It's a 400-year-old tree. It sends roots into my plumbing system that costs me $600 a year to have the roots Remediated and if curbs are put in there that tree will no longer get that water that runs off the street And it's gonna send roots massively further into my plumbing and I Can't afford a special assessment. I can't afford to fix that plumbing I can only just maintain it and all of these people that are on the street. They can't afford a special assessment.

I thank you. Mr. Derby. I This is an open comment period. Anyone else wishing to be heard during open comment? Seeing no one, I will close the open comment period and ask Clerk Kasel to call the roll.

Good evening. Council Member Keene.

Here.

Council Member Miller.

Here.

Council Member Wall.

Here.

Council Member Fredericks. Here. Council Member Palmer.

Here.

Council Member Doering. Here. Council President Shubring.

Here.

Mayor Norton. Present.

Thank you. Next up, we have our city administrator's report. Administrator Zelms, take it away.

Thank you, Council President, Council members, members of the public. I always start with thanking our teammates for acting with respect, integrity, safety, and excellence in everything they do. And just wanted to give a shout out to our public works, parks, streets crews, RPU, police, and especially our 311 operators who had two record days of calls and voicemails in order to log some storm damage. Also to members of the public who helped their neighbors out, really appreciate you helping your neighbors who had maybe more storm damage than you did. So just appreciation for the hard work and there is still work to be done, so. THANK YOU FOR THE INDULGENCE. ALSO, THANK YOU FOR BRINGING THIS TO EVERYONE'S ATTENTION. THERE IS AN ANYPATH HOME DATA DASHBOARD THAT'S LAUNCHED, AND SO THAT PARTNERSHIP BETWEEN OLMSTEAD COUNTY, THE CITY, AND PARTNERS THAT ARE PROVIDING SERVICES FOR INDIVIDUALS EXPERIENCING HOMELESSNESS NOW HAVE A DATA PORTAL. IT'S ANYPATHHOME.ORG FORWARD SLASH DATA, AND SO YOU CAN FIND THAT DATA THERE IF YOU ARE INTERESTED IN That information. Also, we have some exciting activities forthcoming in the city. Latino Fest will be at the Chateau on September 19th from noon until 7 p.m. That is going to be both out on Peace Plaza and in the Chateau Theater. We're also still in the season of Fresh Air Fitness. So there are upcoming dates for free outdoor yoga downtown. That's September 16th, 23rd and 30th from 530 to 630 p.m. and then a little bit better for the fall. Registration is open and the pickup will take place from October 3rd to 11th. You can visit ourneighbors.org to register. That's all I have.

Thank you. Next up, Mayor Norton, please give your report.

You bet. I've got just a few things to talk about. One is in just a couple weeks, we'll be holding a youth leadership and success summit. We are going to have a nine, we've already got over 100 students registered. We're hoping for 200, 250. So that'll be over at the Civic Center in the Chateau in the afternoon. If there are any young people, high school primarily, if you're early in college and you're interested, you could come as well. So there's a place to register it's free but you have to register so we know how much food to prepare for for folks for dinner so if you if you know any high school students please share the information with them and go to the mayor's website and there'll be a place to sign up Also, this Thursday, tomorrow, I keep forgetting this is Wednesday and not a Monday, tomorrow we're going to have a showing of a, it's a screening of a documentary called 9-1-1 Reclaiming Ground Zero. It's about New York City, what happened on 9-11 and how the city survived. managed the upheaval and bringing the community together to make some decisions about moving forward in their community. So it was brought to us by the National Civic League that we've been working on our community engagement work. And they offered this to us to show. So it's free to everyone. It will be out at RCTC tomorrow evening. It will show from 7 to 8ish, a few minutes after. It's a little over an hour documentary. And then the director, producer of the documentary will be online. We couldn't get him here for it, but he'll be online and available on the screen to ask questions and talk to about it. And then hopefully as many council members as are available are welcome to come talk a little bit more about community engagement if you'd like or have some feedback about what New York City did in the aftermath of 9-11. And of course, this is the 25th. anniversary of that very sad occasion so that's tomorrow evening also save the date on Thursday December 17th if anyone cares to join me in my time as mayor following mayor Brady we decided to be about the importance of planting trees in the community that that was something significant for our environment and so the mayor's grove will finish my terms mayor's grove um all of our trees were planted out at cascade lake as that was a brand new park and needing shade and needing trees. And so over the course of the last eight years, there was a year off during COVID. There will be, have been a total of 70 trees planted and we're adding three others for my friends, Melissa and Mark Hortman. There's a group of people in the community who wanted to honor them as well. So there'll be three special trees that the community has purchased that would be planted out there too. So 73 trees over the course of my tenure here. And you're all welcome. It's at 9 a.m. Cascade Lake. I just wanted to, again, another youth activity, the Rochester and Olmstead County Youth Council, so it's a combined city-county youth council, allows students between 14 and 20 to join the council every year. We have an opening coming up, and if they want to register, there's a QR code. Again, that will be on the website as well. And we meet monthly, and the youth provide resources I think community, I would say it's another form of community engagement, but they provide us a youth voice about what's happening in our city and our county. Visit places like the library or the prison or out at the airport or a fire station. Learn a little bit about city and county government. It's a great group. Also, it's that time of year we have a call for nominations for Mayor's Medal of Honor. Again, a tradition that was started years ago by Mayor Chikasama, and nominations are due by October 31st, and it's really we're asking the community to nominate someone who goes above and beyond in the community. There are a little over a dozen different categories. They're listed on the website under the mayor's page. So go take a peek. You can only, for the most part, we say you can only win once. There is a mayor's award and a legacy award too for someone who has dedicated their life to volunteerism and community service or outstanding that might be an exception to that. But please nominate someone. I know you all know wonderful people in your neighborhood or your church or your circle of friends. So please do nominate. And lastly, good, we've got the music board. We have an opening and we have to have people in each ward and they're all covered. So actually we could take a representative for ward one, two, four, or six. So if you live in any of those wards and are interested in Rochester public music and bringing live music and things to the community, sign up for that. Heritage Preservation has two vacancies and Sustainability and Resiliency. I think we have a youth nomination that has, or I guess it's a nomination, self-nomination that just came in, recommendation. Then I'll be doing these interviews in the next two to three weeks. So if you're interested, sign up. That's all I have.

Thank you, Mayor. Next up, we have the order of the agenda. Are there any changes to the agenda? Seeing none, is there a motion to approve the agenda?

Move approval.

Second. Motion made by Councilmember Miller and seconded by Councilmember Doering. All in favor say aye. Aye. Opposed say nay. Motion carries. Next up, we have the consent agenda. I have not received notice of any pulled items. Is that correct? I do have that Councilmember Doering will be voting nay on F27. And is there anything else? Seeing none, I would invite a motion to approve the consent agenda in full. Motion made by Councilmember Fredericks and seconded by Councilmember Keene. All in favor say aye.

Aye.

All opposed say nay. Motion carries with Councilmember Doering voting nay on F27. Next up, we have our public hearings, which I believe we have three of them or four of them? Three. Three of them. Three of them, and before I... go to public hearings. I just wanted to say that our public hearings are a little different than our open comment period. Staff will first introduce the presentation and then if there is an applicant or an applicant representative, they will have up to 10 minutes to discuss the item. then I will open the public hearing members of the public have five minutes each with again encouragement to keep comments brief and and then I will close the public hearing and then the applicant will have up to five minutes for rebuttal or answer any questions that came up during the public hearing after which I will invite council members to ask any clarifying questions of the applicant, if there is an applicant, and staff. So with that, we have item G1, which is an appeal of Historic Preservation Commission's approval of Certificate of Appropriateness, Silver Lake Park and Dam Alterations. And first I'm going to go to Councilmember Palmer, who has informed me that he will be abstaining on this item.

Thank you, Mr. President. I will be recusing myself and not participating in the discussion since I am a member of the Friends of Silver Lake.

Thank you, Council Member. With that, I will invite, I have Molly, I always have Molly on there. Irene, and Irene will present the item.

Good evening, Council President, Mayor, Council Members. I will introduce the item. Just a reminder, this is a quasi-judicial ruling from the Council as it's an appeal. Let's get started there. Just to note that Silver Lake was designated a local historic landmark back in June of 2023. There was a certificate of appropriateness application for major alterations to the park that was reviewed by the Heritage Preservation Commission on July 28th, 2026 they unanimously approved and recommended the certificate of appropriateness that had proposed alterations to the dam lake and trail extension Since that time after we received an appeal from neighboring property owners There was generally two and I'll summarize the the two items that were appealed as part of that number one being the procedure for the HPC approval stated that the UDC was not followed and The members did not receive public comment during their meeting as required making their decision. The second item that was part of the general appeal was the limited information provided to the HPC and the restriction on public comment resulted in a decision that did not fully consider the effect of the work on the eligibility, Silver Lake for the National Register of Historic Places. I will touch on both of those items briefly as part of this. In terms of the UDC procedure, as it relates to certificate of appropriateness, there is a requirement for a public meeting to take place rather than a public hearing. So as part of that, anytime there's a certificate of appropriateness, there is an opportunity at the beginning for public comment that is taken, and that is allowed as part of the UDC process that we follow. To make sure that there's an opportunity for comment and then there's continued comment by the HPC members But in terms of the UDC requirements, it doesn't require a public hearing It just needs to have a meeting where public comments are taken In terms of the second item, national register eligibility is really a federal designation. It relates to the National Preservation Act of 1966. As this is a local landmark, we really just follow the UDC requirements and refer to the local landmark designation when reviewing. HPC really focused on reviewing part of the design guidelines when evaluating the certificate of appropriateness in terms of the major alteration. The National Register of Historic Places and that is really not part of the review process as it's not listed and is not part of the consideration. And with that, I will just say we recommend the denial of the appeal in maintaining the the approved alterations as stated from the HPC. And I will be available for questions after the public hearing.

Thanks, Ms. Woodward. Any questions at this point? And there is not an applicant involved. The city is the applicant, correct?

The city is the applicant for this project.

Okay, thank you. With that, I will open the public hearing, and I have a list of folks who have signed up. Thank you very much. Point of order. Go ahead, Councilmember Keene.

I understand what you're saying, that there's no applicant, but I thought the appeal group would be allowed to present, and is that not our process?

Mr. Spindler-Craig is the...

They would have the ability to... Speak. To speak to what their appeal was.

as for the 10 minute period?

That would be correct, yes.

Okay, thank you, Council Member. Thank you. So with that, I will ask the applicants to come forward and discuss their appeal and you have up to 10 minutes, you don't have to use all of it. Please identify yourself and welcome.

President Shoebrain, council members, Mayor Norton, my name is Greg Munson. I live at 901 8th Avenue Northeast. I'm here tonight representing the Friends of Silver Lake and thousands of Rochester residents who value historic Silver Lake Park. The Friends of Silver Lake is a support group organized nine years ago with a goal to make Silver Lake Park better. Early on, we raised thousands of dollars to improve the deplorable East Pavilion, to buy plants and care for flowers throughout the park, and we put in hundreds of hours washing goose poop off park trails. While the friends had even loftier goals to improve the park, once it became evident to park department leaders that we did not support dam removal plans, our efforts were no longer welcome, and staff were told not to provide us with water for the flowers we had bought, planted, and maintained. Last night at 8.49, I received an email from a local television reporter who asked if I would talk with him this morning. In his short email, he stated, I understand that based on the agenda's language, the city will likely denial the appeal request. I wrote back agreeing to meet with him, but stated to him, please remember, while the agenda language comes from the staff, the decision on what to do rests with the council members who are representatives of their constituents, not with the staff. I will try to explain the Friends' appeal of the Heritage Preservation Commission's decision regarding the dam removal at Silver Lake, but I will also be touching on how this council can regain the trust of Rochester citizens they represent, which has been seriously eroded over recent years, including the Peace Plaza pavers and chateau issues, the Second Street business construction disaster, downtown parking ramp six boondoggle, and most recently the sports complex debacle. These problems can all be traced to staff decisions which the council approved, costing Rochester residents millions. A major thrust of the Friends' appeal is that Rochester citizens were left out of the governing process by the Heritage Preservation Commission. The City Unified Development Code clearly states that the designation as a major alteration requires the HPC to hold a public meeting which allows for public comment on this project. No such meeting was held and the official city website agenda for the HPC meeting stated that citizens speaking during the public comment period could not. Talk about any item on the official agenda, including the historic Silver Lake Park issue. Oddly enough, prior to the meeting, fellow Friends leadership team member Dave Morrill and I were told by Heritage Preservation Chair Benjamin Zastrow we could speak about the Dam Room Rule project during the open comment period, violating their own written policy, which is also written right up there above the HPC group. So even though the commission was letting Dave and me speak, when we showed up, other citizens who assumed they were not allowed to speak did not show up. How the historic value of Silver Lake Park has been handled by the city has been part of an overriding factor that has driven many aspects of the city dam removal proposal. Put simply, the fact is that city staff have not hesitated to mislead Rochester citizens and this council regarding dam removal facts in an effort to push it forward. The following are some of the dam-related city misrepresentations the Friends are aware of and made over the past nine years. Until only recently, city staff have stated numerous times that the dam no longer serves its original function of providing cooling water for the power plant. Given the dam was built in the mid-1930s and the power plant in the late 1940s, this is obviously false, but the damage was done in misleading citizens and all of you before the city staff recently acknowledged their error. Secondly, city staff have stated numerous times the dam is unsafe. The fact is, in the almost 90 years of its existence, there is no record of any death or even injury caused by the dam. I personally took many students below the dam and had them step into the shallow pools directly underneath the dam to dip net fish. Had the staff done due diligence, A.I. could have told them there's a greater likelihood of a death or injury in the canoeing kayaking pools than from the current death. Oddly enough, the city-developed Foster Ernst Park has been the site of at least eight drownings over the past four decades, with the more recently developed Cascade Lake Park the site of one child's death less than three weeks after it was opened. Yet we've heard no outcry from staff about getting rid of those sites. City staff have also stated the current dam, reconstructed by the Army Corps of Engineers less than 30 years ago, is old, in need of repairs, and could fail. The city has shown nothing from engineering report that indicates the dam could soon fail. Again, a misleading statement to cause serious, unfounded concern to you and Rochester citizens. The Corps does not put millions into a structure with a 30-year lifespan. To bolster efforts at convincing citizens and the council that dam removal was favored by the vast majority of Rochester citizens, city staff conducted an online survey, followed shortly after with the city website stating in large bold letters that 89% of Rochester residents favored dam removal. Upon checking with city officials, we learned they had 19 respondents to their survey, with 17 people indicating they favored dam removal. After our inquiry, they removed this very false claim, but not before damage was again done. In promoting citizen outreach, the city also neglected to mention an informational meeting convened on April 8th, 2022 by the Mayor Norton at Friend's Urging. The Mayor arranged for a city meeting room with 70 seats, all of which were filled along with available floor space for people to stand or sit on before the meeting started. I took a head count of people present and got over 200 with anyone at that meeting easily able to tell that the vast majority did not favor dam removal. Nor did the city ever mention the 100 Friends members who filled the chamber rotunda to greet city council members in protest at a council meeting on April 22nd, 2024. Another statement put forward from the beginning by city staff to sell the project was that it would include a pedestrian and biking bridge parallel to Broadway to avoid people walking or biking close to Broadway traffic. This was something important to many citizens who now aren't aware the bridge is not part of the current project plan. City staff have also spoken and written numerous times over the year that even though the lake service will be reduced by 15% or approximately five acres, the river level will remain exactly the same. But recently engineering information indicates the lake will be lowered by almost a foot. City engineers have also stated they cannot do a bike pedestrian trail under Broadway without dam approval, something a local, respected, independent civil engineer has stated is false based upon measurements he's made at the site. Adding to our belief that staff do not want to inform the council about the dam removal project any more than they have, discussing the dam removal project was recently removed from a scheduled council study session. Using that phrase, dam removal, reminds me of numerous times over the years city staff have referred to the project as a dam alteration or dam modification, even though plans are to totally destroy and haul away the existing dam, certainly not the definition of alteration or modification. The dam the city wants to destroy, remodeled by the court in the 90s, has had functional control of river water levels, which has helped protect the city of Rochester from flooding since the 90s. The proposed new structure does not have any functional water level control features and no guarantees it will protect the city as well as the current dam. City Council has not truly sought citizen input and actual facts on the dam removal proposal. Doing so might help to restore the lost trust of Rochester citizens, especially with most of the current candidates for city offices saying they want more transparency and more communication and citizen involvement. In closing, the Friends of Silver Lake asked the Council to direct the City Attorney to address the violations of the City Unified Development Code and that the Heritage Preservation Commission take up this issue once again to allow Rochester residents the opportunity they should have had to speak at that July meeting. In addition, we request that the city council members request a study session on the issue, seek more input from Rochester citizens, and learn more about the dam removal project facts before rubber stamping what staff have fed them. And in fairness to the next council, which could have three new members and will have a new mayor, it would seem appropriate that they should be able to weigh in on this major city issue rather than inherit it. Finally, the friends believe this project is too important to the city and citizens of Rochester to let staff rush it forward, especially given the current upheaval in the city with road construction everywhere and one of the most major multi-year construction projects ever in the state of Minnesota turning the city upside down. Adding 15 to 20 months of trucks hauling tens of thousands of tons of rock and mud in and out of Silver Lake will push citizen frustration to the brink. So as the reporter implied, even though some of you tend to approve what staff puts on the agenda, we hope at least three of you will stand up for the citizens you represent and vote that this is not the time we should be pushing this project forward, especially based upon misleading information provided. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Munson. And we will ask you to come back after the public hearing and you'll have another five minutes.

Okay.

With that, I will open the public hearing and invite members of the public to come up as you signed in. And first is Lynn Nenquist.

Yes, absolutely.

No, you are ready to go, just state your name again and you have up to five minutes.

Good evening, my name is Lynn Newquist. I have been a Rochester resident for 50 years. I have lived on Silver Lake for 40 of those years. I had a home. It was 106 14th Street Northeast, the second house from the corner. And 19 years ago, I moved across the street and I now live at Buena Vista. If you want to do something to make the lake nicer, it would be to Go back to what it was 10, 15 years ago when we actually had beautiful grassy banks that went right down to the water's edge. People would sit on those banks. They'd have a tarp or a blanket. They'd bring a fishing pole. They'd bring their picnic stuff. And it was nice. It doesn't cost anything. People could go there. It was just plain nice. But when all those weeds, those thick, dense weeds went up, you can't go to the shore anymore. I had a laugh this morning when I walked around the lake. I saw a big sign, not a big sign, it was a sign, a yellow sign on top of a pole. It's fishing regulations. Where are you gonna fish there? It's the corner of Broadway and Silver Lake Drive. You can't get near the water to fish. Take it back to what it used to be. I had heard that the city was trying to save money, and they put in all those weeds so that they wouldn't have to mow so much. They wouldn't pay so much mowing grass. Well, maybe that's true, and maybe they've managed to save a lot of money, but you've destroyed the beauty of the lake. The lake was gorgeous. I want to see the lake stay the same size it is, the same shape it is, and have beautiful grassy banks again. If you want more trees, I'll tell you that the squirrels have done a great job planting black walnut trees in that lot that has been weeded over, eight foot high weeds, right next to the house of 102 on 14th Street. Lots and lots of black walnut trees are in there. So I hope when you do something with that lot, you don't chop down all those trees. I'll tell you, too, that black walnut trees have poisonous roots. In any black walnut forest, you'll find very, very little undergrowth, and that's what's going to be happening there. I see it happening, and I think it's going to be a fire hazard, too. If you look down below those trees, you see a lot of just dead stuff. So fix that back up. Make that look as nice as it used to look, please. Thank you.

Thank you. Next up, we have Sue Ebert.

Good evening, I live across the street from Silver Lake. I have a beautiful view all year round. I've used the trail around the lake for biking, for walking, my grandkids played in the parks. I feel that a lake in the city is a real asset. Not a lot of towns have a lake inside the city limits. Property owners around the lake obviously have increased value because of the view. I believe that I'm speaking for thousands of residents who in our community but also in our state appreciate lakes. We are the state of 10,000 lakes and we love them all. We buy and we maintain expensive lake properties for recreation and relaxation. Why do we want to remove a lake? It's a Minnesota treasure. In recent years, I've noticed that there's been less routine maintenance in the Silver Lake parks, where there used to be mulch, Now there's dirt and weeds. I had grandkids at the newest playground a week ago, and there's a lot of dirt and a lot of weeds and not much mulch. The new plan with the dam I think will require much more maintenance than what we have now. And what we have now doesn't seem to be adequate. The much needed dredging of Silver Lake hasn't happened. I would call that maintenance. Will there be a big transformation of maintenance with the new project? Is there more money in the city budget to do more maintenance when we're behind now? Silver Lake parks and trails aren't only used by our local residents. I have on several occasions encountered visitors who are in town for medical appointments. They come to the lake to sit on the beach or to sit on the bench to relax, to calm themselves from stressful situations. The park is a peaceful place to enjoy quiet moments as well as to use recreation. And a big question I have is what will happen in a dry year? Will there be any water flowing? Or will it be one big mud puddle filled with weeds and willows? I'm just saying please save our dam. which will save our beautiful lake for our city and the countless visitors who come here. I don't believe that no lake in beautiful Minnesota that treasures lakes should be removed but be maintained.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Next up we have Sandra Gussie. Guys. Guys, I'm sorry.

Thank you, council. My name is Sandra Geis. I live at 127 8th Street Northeast. Mr. Munson has stated a number of facts that I hope the City Council will review and make a decision reflecting on information I doubt that you have been privy to. As a longtime Rochester resident who has tried to stay up on the workings of Rochester, I don't think a majority of residents are aware of what removing the dam would mean for Rochester. In 2023, the City Council voted to make Silver Lake and Park a Rochester landmark. If the dam is removed and changing the shape of the lake, Silver Lake will still be eligible for the National Registry designation. The importance of Silver Lake in Rochester history is of value to all of the citizens of Rochester. Whether a new citizen or native citizens, Silver Lake is a reminder of our history. Damming the Zumba River was done to alleviate the annual flooding of Lowertown. My dad worked on the WPA project. I wish I had paid closer attention to his stories, but this is one I remember. Before the dam was considered, he and his buddies would jump off the Center Street Bridge, grab onto something, a log or a cow, ride it down to Broadway, and climb out on the bridge. We now have reservoirs around Rochester after the 1978 flood with the help of federal dollars. The Army Corps of Engineers rebuilt the dam in 1991. One of the conditions was to dredge Silver Lake. We even reinforced 7th Street Bridge to accommodate the trucks hauling silt from the dredging. I am not sure that that project was ever completed. At least the dredging has been sparse. These... The pictures that may be coming show the lack of upkeep. If we take out the dam, how much upkeep will there be? The plan with pools and rocks will need even more upkeep. When water flow is low, the pools will be filled with algae and dead fish. Of course, during high water, the pools will be sufficiently washed out to send the debris downstream. The dam now provides gates to release water in a measured capacity. In 2025, they opened the gates five or six times for high water. Silver Lake was built for a purpose, and the benefits to Rochester have been appreciated since the 40s. To name a few, the lake is a welcoming site driving into Rochester from the north or any other direction of the lake is visible. Granted, with the weeds planted around the lake, it's a little hard to see. We have rowing clubs that use the lake. They have started They have stated that losing five acres of lake greatly minimizes their ability to practice their skills. Losing five acres minimizes the paddle boat business with less customer draw. Discouraging small business isn't in our best interest. This lake is never going to be a game fishing lake, but it is a lake where children learn the techniques of fishing for bullheads, crappies, sunfish, all thriving in the lake. We have used Silver Lake as long as I can remember for Fourth of July celebrations with fireworks cascading over the lake with reflections in the water. About five years ago, the fireworks were moved to Soldier's Field with no reflections over water and less available parking. In the 1940s, there were beaches and swimming. I have seen pictures from 1945 of the St. Mary's nursing students in their swimming attire on the beach and in the water. I am not sure that that will ever be a possibility. In a state famous for 10,000 lakes, Olmsted County has no natural lakes. The dam provides a lake in an otherwise lake-less county. Water is a natural draw to people. People come from all over the world to Mayo with countless health problems, some very serious. Silver Lake provides a calming space for walking, sitting on the benches, contemplating. This is a calming space for the community and visitors to use. In every city I have been in, water is a valued resource. Why we don't value a lake in the center of our city is beyond belief. How can there be a lake without a dam? Thank you.

Thank you, guys. Next up, we have Wes Lund.

I MISSED THE NAME COUNCIL PRESIDENT SCHUBERING OF THE INITIAL SPEAKER WHO SPOKE ON BEHALF OF THE STAFF. THAT'S THE STAFF POSITION? THAT'S IRENE WOODWARD. IRENE WOODWARD. THANK YOU. I'M AWARE IN DEALINGS WITH GOVERNMENTS THAT WHEN THE PROCESS ISN'T ON THEIR SIDE, THEY'LL PLAY WITH THE LAW. And when the law isn't on their side, they'll play with the process. And when neither is on their side, they'll just delay the whole thing and wait people out. And we've seen in this case that our city government hasn't responded or responded to what the citizens have said. presented to it in multiple meetings. I remember speaking on this microphone about this issue. Multiple times we had community meetings and the public made known how they felt about the city dam and made appeals to the city. I want to thank you and the city council members for at least making eye contact with us while people came up here and gave their heartfelt appeals to give honor to their requests one more time to preserve and protect the Silver Lake Dam. It's important to respect their feelings. You're making eye contact. You're not rocking in your chairs or working on something else or digging in your bag or wishing you were somewhere else. You're giving them attention. If someone's bored by the city council meeting, they could leave. So I thank the city council members for doing that. All of you are doing that. But it's important to open this up to community engagement again, to have real community engagement one more time, have a real meeting, bring everyone together, and hear what the community feels about that place. Multiple generations have been there with grandchildren and parents feeding the geese. The geese had to go away. Their eggs had to be replaced with clay eggs, with dummy eggs, and then they had to be oiled. And then the shrubs had to be, the reeds had to be installed so that they wouldn't come up on the shoreline because it was bothering somebody that they were walking up on the shoreline. And then they wouldn't be able to have their nests there and they wouldn't return to the Silver Lake Dam. And then while this speaker was saying that she wanted the geese to come back, someone was nodding along with that, but that was actually their plan. So politicians are really good at nodding their heads along with people. But body language tells you a lot. When someone's plan was actually to get rid of the geese, but then, oh yeah, I love the geese too. Yeah. Silver Lake means a lot. The fireworks that used to be held there, the band shell concert. We don't hear John Philip Sousa music anymore. We've lost a venue. We're going to lose another green space. That's part of the comprehensive plans, too, to have green spaces. We've already destroyed Lourdes High School. Am I out of time? We've destroyed Lourdes High School.

You got a minute and a half.

We destroyed Lourdes High School. We appealed not to do that. We've seen lots of money spent on the Chateau Theater. That's still gonna cost us more. The pavers were replaced at the Peace Park. It used to be a green space. Families used to picnic there. It used to be a green space. Now it's pavers. The pavers had to be replaced because they were the wrong special order. My microphone keeps cutting out. What's going on?

No, you're going, but I would caution you, Mr. Lund, to stick to the item that is in front of us.

As Mr. Vinson was saying, there's a number of decisions that were taken by city council that didn't reflect the wishes of the community. It might be tennis courts versus swimming pools. But people feel strongly about Silver Lake because we need it as a place to exercise, exorcise the tensions of living in a 15-minute city. Why such motivation to do away with a place where people can go to recreate to have some green space. What is the motivation to have a 15-minute city with population density? That's a plan from the European Economic Community. Have you noticed yet what's happening in Europe right now? In Germany? Is anything getting through over here? Scotland? Spain? All of that's falling apart in the European Economic Community and we're about to have a new mayor too. So let it be a decision for the next city council and the next mayor to make. Because it's all over now.

Next up we have Jenny Buccion. I know I messed that one up. Buccion.

Nice Irish name. At least I'm Irish.

My husband's from Italy.

You heard my name. My name is Jenny Butchercone. I'm a resident of Northwest Rochester. I go to Silver Lake because of my heritage and enjoyment of it, not because I live there, not because I'm in the neighborhood, not because I make money there. I walk year-round in Silver Lake Park, around the lake, three to five kilometers each time, six or more times weekly, and it's a treasure to me It's a treasure to the people of Rochester, just the way it is with the dam in place and functioning and cared for. I wanted to speak tonight because I do not feel that mine and my fellow park users and neighbors to the park and visitors that our preferences, needs, perspectives have truly gotten our voices out and been heard by city council. We want to keep the dam. We want to keep the heritage. We want transparency about making Silver Lake changes, transparency that has been seriously lacking. the city staff recommendations in hidden rooms most often, and funding efforts, applications after the fact presented, and most of the proceedings about Silver Lake Dam removal the last five plus years have been undercover, I'll use my finger quotes, and most of the information hidden from those of us who wish to maintain the park heritage as it is, well cared for, until after the fact announcements are made publicly. It seems to me like city staff have cloaked decisions all along the way trying to push the dam removal from Silver Lake Park and the whole process is lacked seriously and complete transparency until all of a sudden city council is saying we're making our final decision. It seems like the brainstorming and the idea and information coming from behind the scenes with the city staff saying here's a great idea, take it to city council, they'll give us our approval. Silver Park with the dam is our heritage, ours in Rochester, ours as a part of our lives. It is a place that is very rare in today's city and a long time Rochester landmark, a place of urban retreat as the lake is now. The nature, green herons, osprey, eagles, The environment is at its optimal with the dam but will not be there if it's been dismantled because the dam is removed and it will no longer be our heritage. My biggest complaint is that if you had consulted citizens and not just used an online survey, 89% of Rochester doesn't favor this change. that is not truly coming to the park and saying, I'll sit here for a few hours and I'll ask George and I'll ask Harrison and I'll ask Jenny and I'll ask Martha and I'll ask Paul and I'll go downtown. Have you seen the lake to the visitors? Oh, there's a lake. Yeah, why don't you go there if you don't have a couple of appointments? Thorough transparency lacking as to the consequences, not just the preferences of the citizens, but the consequences of all users has not truly been considered. Recently, the same sort of process went on on a decision about a road diet for changing Elton Hills Drive. The people said no, but city council passed it anyway. But I digress. That's a whole different argument. Right now, I feel like my colleagues, my fellow park users, Rochester visitors, Rochester citizens have not been fully considered what we want to do with our heritage, Silver Lake Park. We don't want to reduce the size of the lake by five acres. We don't want to take away a habitat that makes a peaceful urban retreat. Leave our heritage alone. We don't want the dam removed. As it said on a citizen protest sign over a year ago, and again, this is a quote, leave the dam thing alone. It was on a cardboard sign. I would add to that, especially if the process has been so hidden, that please, city council, mayor, president, and members, approve our appeal to go back and keep our heritage and do this in a more inclusive way. Do take care of our heritage. Thank you.

Thank you. Next up, we have Craig Uglin,

Council. My name is Craig Eugland. I live in Corby Road, southeast Rochester. This quote is from the city's COA presentation to the HPC and the historic landmark designation presentation, page four, under structures. The presence of the dam in this location is a character defining feature contributing to the historic nature of the park. Period, end of conversation. Why did they approve the removal? 15% smaller, that's five football fields of flat water. Some of the things that the city has pushed for, for the reasoning, justification to remove the dam, is that it's unsafe. As Mr. Munson said, there have been no deaths in the lifespan of this dam. And they've actually improved the dam back in the 90s. Another safety concern was crossing Broadway, having the bike path under the bridge would improve safety, yet the Broadway renovations done over the last three years have greatly changed and improved that safety standard. Crossing the bridge itself on the sidewalk, another concern of citizens, yet the new proposal does not include the separated pedestrian bridge. You're encouraging the removal, you're pushing for the removal of a dam in the means of safety, or in the name of safety, yet you're encouraging citizens, including children, to take on a high risk water sport, which at the most desirable times is during high water. How does that make that dam and that location any safer for the citizens of Rochester? Another concern brought up from the city's maintenance. The floodgates that are currently there, that allows that lake to drop by 10 feet. Not only does that help with dredging of the lake, but it helps with the much more frequent maintenance of the river channel through downtown Rochester. That can be done with the push of a button to lift those gates to allow that water to drop and clean out the river channel with wheeled equipment and we'll bring in specialty dredging equipment. The new dam that's moved up 400 feet will not allow that. You know how the city's gonna have to drop that water? Pumps. Why bring electric pumps where you can let gravity do that for you? The city has said that the maintenance will be easier with the new rapids. Really? you have one point of cleaning a 200 foot long dam, you can put a crane in one spot, or you're gonna have five and a half acres of rip rap rough rock that's gonna have to be cleaned after any major storm if you still want those recreational rapids to be safe for kayakers, canoers, and God forbid, inner troopers going down that. That dam was updated the current dam was most recently maintained in 2015 that puts its current lifespan with no continued maintenance to 2035 Another reasoning for the justification is fish migration I don't know of any fish in the area that can get past the Lake Zumbro Dam. And if they were to get through the new dreamed up fish rapids, they've got 12 more smaller dam structures before they run into the reservoirs in Rochester. How about some other options besides this drastic measure? Why not put recreational rapids below the dam? Why not put recreational rapids blower reservoirs where the water is consistent and it's a heck of a lot cleaner than the runoff coming out of downtown? That North Shore path, absolutely. It's desperately needed and wanted by most everybody in Rochester. But you can do that without removing the dam. The city says you can't put a bike path underneath the bridge. Yeah, you can. Think outside the box. I was in Western Colorado for two years. They've come up with amazing things on the highway infrastructure to get bike paths around. It can be done. Or wait until Broadway Bridge gets removed or replaced. Oh boy, okay. As I've said with the Alton Hills project, this seems like another pet project looking for a problem. Several lake dams need to be removed. You can do a majority of the wanted projects without removing that dam. Thank you for your time.

Thank you, Mr. Euglen. Next up we have Devin Hustall.

My name is Devin Hugdon. I live on Silver Lake Park. I am here to voice my and my family's support of the Preservation Commission's approval of appropriateness regarding Silver Lake Park and the dam alterations or removal, however you want to call it. We're privileged to live along Lake Silver Lake and feel that the reconfiguration of the dam to become a series of casketing pools will improve the enjoyment of this beautiful historic park and for all of the community. I feel the Historic Preservation Commission has done its due diligence and the city planning department and as required by four manmade lakes, the Army Corps of Engineers have all gone through this and approved it. I urge the council to stay the course and follow the Historic Preservation Commission's decision and continue with the Silver Lake Master Plan, which we love because we love our pool. So thank you very much.

Thank you, Mr. Hugdahl. Next, we have Guy Mayer.

I just wanted to show you the condition, present condition of the

Silver Lake Diane. I really have more questions than answers. I don't know what I've been told is the truth. I live near Silver Lake and often cross Broadway Bridge over the Zumbro River with a clear view of the Silver Lake Dam. Over the years I've noticed logs getting hung up on the dam but this year the view is especially disturbing. You can see most of the dam has large logs jammed up against it or hanging over the top of it with many spots or healthy growth of

Mr. Mayor, yeah, the streaming isn't going to hear you. We'll hear you in the room, but the folks online won't hear you.

Everybody's seen the picture already. Yes, we have.

Thank you.

So they're sitting on top of the dam. The existing dam has two different types of gates, leaf gates and tanters, which are roller or radial gates. These gates were added during a 1991 modification. The reason they were added... because they were to help manage high flow flood events. The gates are currently computer operated, adjusted, actualized as needed to control the lake's water level. I am not an expert but I would assume leaving logs, growing trees, and other debris on top of the dam may impact its functionality and potentially damage the dam's hydraulic mechanisms. I was also told that the city agreed that there is a city agreement with the Corps of Engineers from the 1990s that requires the city to maintain the dam. Which I would think it would be keeping it free of logs and other debris. It's almost like someone's wanting the existing dam to fail. I'll come back to that later. My concern with the new dam is where these logs brought to the dam from upstream erosion or this recent storm we just had end up in the new dam's structure. My assumption that some will rest on top of the structure similar to now, but many will end up sitting in the kayak canoeing chute or pools, or in the chute or rapids designed for fish movement, removing those areas less functional. I understand the DNR has commented that the recreational pools and fish rapids, they have more maintenance costs than the current dam. So I'm wondering if the city has a better plan than they do now to deal with these logs in the new dams proposal. What I'm really worried about is that we're gonna go from a dam that I don't know exactly how wide it is. I think it's 200 foot wide. And I don't know how long the new dam is gonna be, but I do understand that the new dam is gonna have two chutes. And the chutes I think are about 12 to 15 foot wide. So let's just imagine in a worst case scenario that those chutes would get plugged or partially plugged. What would determine the level of the lake would be the top of the new dam. The new dam has no control. The only control is the chutes. Once it gets to the level of the top of the dam, and it can't flow out any quicker, is the problem. Any of you notice that the weather patterns are changing? I don't care if you do or don't believe in global warming. Hawaii has just had two hurricanes. I'm from Louisiana, the parish county that I'm from had 30 inches of rain in 12 hours. It caused flooding and they had to evacuate nurses and homes with helicopters. In the 2026 Atlantic Gulf of Mexico hurricane season, there hasn't been a hurricane yet this year. That is really very unusual and very good. Remember when I was talking about dams failing? Well, we recently had a dam not fail at the Rapid Dam on Blue Earth River in Mankato. That's about 84. miles away. The water, which is, it got out of control and it aggressively cut around the dam. So in other words, it couldn't go over the dam quick enough, but the problem ended up being they weren't maintaining the dam. The old maintenance man said they weren't cleaning it up. Well, a big storm came and rushed a bunch of things down and the dam didn't fail, but it cut around.

Is that how much time I have left? You've got 13 seconds. So time to wrap up.

I'll go fast. I love the idea that fish could move freely upstream.

There's your time.

I love the idea that you could kayak or canoe from Silver Lake down the Zumbro River with the new proposed dam. I love the idea that you could bike under the bridge with the new proposed dam. I love all these things. However, what I love even more is my and my neighbor's homes and businesses not flooding.

Thank you, Mr. Meyer.

Thanks for the extra time.

Next up we have Jeff Gove.

Yes, I was born and raised in Rochester. Spent a lot of time down at that dam when I was a kid, before Elton Hills Drive even went through to Broadway. No one ever got hurt there. We had a lot of fun there. The lake itself was very beautiful. You need to clean up the lake. Leave the dam, dig the lake out as deep as you can, stock it with fish. Kids will thrive there. Kids love to fish. People would thrive there. Fix the dam, leave it the way it is. There's nothing wrong with it. It helps with flood control, but you need to dig out the lake. There used to be nice bass in there and stuff. There could be bass in there again. You can make it catch and release. The place would be thriving with families. Get rid of the weeds. Just beautify the lake. The plan that's coming forward is just gonna be a big mess, and I think everybody knows it. When the water's low, the thing's gonna be a mud hole, like other people have said. I just don't understand why anybody would wanna change it and make it worse. The maintenance is gonna be horrific. I mean, you can't even maintain it to what you got now, and now you wanna make it worse. You want to make rapids supposedly and kayak down it. That's just a big joke. It's not going to happen. We got plenty of places to kayak. You go to the river and something, it's beautiful down there. I don't know how to get through to you guys to leave the lake alone. It's probably, I'm probably just talking to the wind, but I have to give my little spiel. because I feel it's my duty as a lifelong resident of Rochester to improve it. Don't diminish it. Dig out the old snow dump. Make it bigger. There's a nice peninsula there. I mean, it would be beautiful. And save the $4 million that you're going to spend to take the dam out and the thousands or whatever millions to put some rapids in. I just wish that the people that are in charge of the whole thing would really listen and really think about what they're doing. That's about all I could say.

Thank you, Mr. Gove. Next, we have Bunny Kettocamp.

Hi, everybody. My name is Bonnie Kettelkamp. I'm here to speak up for Silver Lake. I'm the researcher at the History Center of Olmstead County. And when the city wanted to know the history of Silver Lake, they contacted my boss, Krista Lewis, and she turned it over to me. I did all the research and wrote it up for the city. And... in any event. Silver Lake is a treasure. This council voted to create Silver Lake as a landmark in Rochester and that should have been the end of it. So much has been made of the difference between the 1936 dam and the 1990s dam. There was no choice. The original dam had to be removed, according to the Army Corps, as part of their flood control project. And the dam was changed. And money was given to the city of Rochester to dredge the lake on a regular basis. And as of the 1990s, to now, Silver Lake has never been dredged. So who got that money? The money that was paid by the Army Corps to take care of and maintain Silver Lake, where did it go? The lake is not there to provide cooling for the power plant. I know people have spoken of this already. Um, it did do that. It was a fringe benefit for the plant. Um, and, uh, but the plant was built a decade after the lake was dedicated. This council voted to create an historic district downtown. And in my opinion, they went back, you went back on your pledge. to set aside the earliest buildings for our heritage. There's not much trust left in the Rochester city council. Okay. And, uh, because those buildings are now endangered, the lake was created. Silver Lake was created with so much money paid for land and a noted landscape architect, Vincent Finn, There sounds like there's money for a dam removal, but there's no money set aside for the creation of the rest of this project, which I've heard is up from $15 million. Dredging the lake could be done for a millionth that price. and let us keep and enjoy our Silver Lake the way it was intended. So I'm telling you now, listen to your constituents the people have spoken this is what we want we want that lake just the way it is and uh and cleaned up and you can drive by there you don't even know that there's a lake there anymore because of all the overgrowth and it just seems to me like it's a big sabotage uh campaign to, you know, the people said, you know, we used to have the fireworks. We used to go down there and picnic. We used to go out down there and do a lot of things. And you can't do any of it anymore. And this is like a pipe dream. And I tell you, when that guy showed that picture of that dam with the trees and the brush and all of that hung up on that dam, Did anybody try to go out and fix it? No. Is there anybody out there cleaning up the mess? No. There's dead trees laying in there already for two or three years. Has anybody gone in to clean that up? No. So I don't have any confidence that anything that will ever happen down there with... cascading pools and everything that that will ever be taken care of at all. And after it comes about that, well, it didn't work out the way we wanted to. It's just going to be a kind of a typical, oh, well, and the mess will be left for the rest of us to look at for the next, you know, hundred years.

Thank you. Thank you, Ms. Kittle-Kamp. That completes our list of people that signed up. However, this is a public hearing, so anyone else wishing to be heard on this item, please step forward. Come forward, state your name, and you have up to five minutes.

Good evening, everyone. My name's Andrew Knopf, Ward 4. Good evening, Mayor, Council, Council President. To be clear, just real quick here, Silver Lake is actually not a lake. Just wanted to let everybody know that. the definition of a lake, considerable body of standing water. It is actually part of the Zumbro River. So I believe removing the dam allows the river to properly egress out of the core of the city. On the quasi-judicial matter in front of the council tonight, I think the HBC and their approval of the COAs followed the UDC. The lake is not a registered landmark at the federal level, and it appears that everything I've read anyway, that due diligence was actually done. So I would go with approving the COA. I do have one follow-up request, which maybe we can deal with at another time, is I think we as a city need to iron out the proper usage of open comment versus public hearing and appreciate clarifying whether the code is met by having an open comment versus a public hearing or both because this is now the, I think both on the 18th with the Broadway development issue and then also tonight with Silver Lake issue, there seems to be confusion in the public about what you're supposed to do at what point in the meeting and at what other points in other meetings leading up to where we're at tonight. So maybe we can work together. Maybe Allison can send me something or some of our legal friends or somebody can maybe get this ironed out because I think we need to address that. Okay, thanks, that's it. Thank you, Mr. Knopf.

This is a public hearing. Anyone else wishing to be heard on this item, please step forward. Anyone else wishing to step forward and state your name and you have up to five minutes. You don't have to use all of them.

My name is Betty Dawson. I also live near Silver Lake. I walk around it nearly every day. I would just like to encourage each and every one of you to do the same. Go down and check it out and see what you're missing if you take it away.

Thank you. This is a public hearing. Anyone wishing to be heard on this item, please step forward. Anyone wishing to be heard on this item, please step forward. You've already been on the list, ma'am. step forward state are you stepping forward state your name and uh you have up to five minutes

Hi, I'm Andy Sutton. I live on Silver Lake. I also walk around it every day, and I just wanted to share that I'm actually enthusiastic about the change to come. I'm excited about what it will do for river health. I really love the native plantings around that are supporting stormwater cleaning. I think it reinforces letting the river renaturalize and I think it was an exciting design, so I can't wait to see it happen and the dredging alongside that will be delightful as well.

Thank you, Ms. Sutton. This is a public hearing. Anyone wishing to be heard on this item, please step forward. Anyone else wishing to be heard on this item, please step forward. State your name. Up to five minutes.

Hi, I'm Mary Benike-Kiseleski, and I'm a lifelong resident of Rochester. I now currently live out on Lake Zumbro. I grew up out here, like they talk about fishing and all the things that used to take place out here. The thing that really concerns me about this dam going away is, as it has been stated previously, is it was put in for a reason. it was also supposed to be dredged. So everyone who lives down river, now because we don't have it dredged, it cannot hold the capacity of high waters like it used to be able to. So we all know it goes downstream. So the homes down below us have more ability to possibly flood. So I am for keeping the dam in place, dredging it as it was supposed to be dredged, cleaning it up, putting it nicely. We used to canoe out there. I mean, as school, we would be sent there to learn how to kayak and canoe and do that. We did that for a school function. So I think the lake, if you leave the dam there, can be put back, be put to use to allow people to still kayak, to canoe, and to utilize it to fish, but it really needs to remain for safety reasons. Thank you.

Thank you. This is a public hearing. Anyone wishing to be heard on this item, please step forward. Anyone wishing to be heard on this item, please step forward. Final call. Anyone wishing to be heard on this item, please step forward. At this point, I will close the public hearing and invite Mr. Munson to return with any closing comments that he may have. You have up to five minutes, Mr. Munson.

Thank you. I rambled a few notes here because I didn't realize I was getting five more minutes, so I really spent some time on this. A couple of things I might point out. First off, I assume I don't get to ask questions of staff or council, is that?

You don't, but council can ask you questions if they prefer.

Okay. My partner in this appeal, Dave Morrill, who happens to be over in Croatia digging truffles. When he was at the HPC meeting with me, and we were kind of dumbfounded by the the statement sitting up there that said you couldn't speak during the open comment period, as well as that was statement on the agenda. So he asked the chairperson, Mr. Zastrow, if he could explain why those two were conflicting, and he got no response on that. So I'm still not too sure why they were conflicting. One, you know, the chairman saying, yeah, you can, and this stuff saying whatnot. listening to the staff presentation I'm still thinking I haven't seen anything to tell me when the the public meeting open for public comment was or would be held because it certainly wasn't at the HPC meeting because no the public wasn't informed there was going to be a public comment period It's my understanding that today was the day the bids on this project were to come back. I haven't been able to keep real good track of the estimated cost of the project over the years. I do remember some numbers coming out at the fire hall presentation, which I think was the first one many years ago. And at that time, I also think the bridge that is no longer on the current plans was included in whatever the estimate was. I have been told that that original estimate has increased since, and I'm concerned that when the The bids got open today that it may have increased some more. So related to that, I hope the city would give serious thought to spending millings on this project that is questionable, and especially if that means it's going way over the budget, or going over the budget that was anticipated. So again, I will encourage the council to do the things we ask, to have the city attorney try to figure out if there was indeed a violation of the code, and also have a council study session on it before pushing it forward, maybe get more complete facts and some more communication.

How much time do I have left?

You've got a minute and 45 seconds.

I wanted to just say that a lot of times that I've been doing this, people have said to me, oh, Silver Lake's gonna turn into Lake Shady, and I will tell you that I've done everything I can to convince citizens that this is not a Lake Shady issue. We still are gonna have a lake there, okay? We're not gonna get rid of it. There are a lot of people that would like to get rid of it, the dam completely and just have a stream. And I've actually written a column in the newspaper years ago, and I was writing my nature in a column that said rivers should run free. And I really believe that in many, many cases, but not in the case of this very, very important issue. for the city of Rochester. Another thing that I haven't had time to mention earlier, but I do want to mention, I stood on the bridge, Broadway Bridge, looking at the dam. I remember it was basketball regional tournament time, so it was like in March, and it was thawing time, and there was a huge sheet of ice on Silver Lake and upstream quite a ways and it was starting to break up and I watched chunks of ice the size of that corner of the room going over the dam and one of my concerns is that this new structure may not be able to shed those chunks of ice quite as easily as the dam that had the the leaf gate that could drop down to a horizontal state. And I know if you go online and Google ice dams, you'll find a lot of communities that have been flooded by ice dams. I'll get out of here before my time is up. Thank you again.

Thank you, Mr. Munson. So now I will invite my colleagues to ask questions of staff or the appellant. But first I have a question about, and thank you all for being here for to our city council's public hearing. This is an official public hearing and so I thank you all for giving your testimony. But I would like to ask our staff if you can clear up this issue of open comment period and public hearing at the HPC meeting, that would be helpful.

Thank you for the question. So certificate of appropriateness fall under reports and recommendations at the Heritage Preservation Commission. So similar to council meeting, there is an open comment period before the start of the meeting where anything they will take comment on from the commission. It was shared that any comments could be related to that item, but there is no public hearing for a certificate of appropriateness. As part of our process and in the UDC, A certificate of appropriateness is at a public, the meeting itself is advertised as the HPC meeting, and there is opportunities for the public to comment during the open comment period, but we don't have it as a public hearing.

Thank you. Council Member Doering.

Yeah, I just I want to thank the members of the public too for coming to speak about your heartfelt feelings about Silver Lake and Silver Lake Park. But I want to point a clarification from our city attorney. So we are asked this evening to make a quasi judicial decision. Can you explain what that is for the members of the public sitting here?

Thank you for the question, Council Member Doering, Council Members, Mayor. We've had this discussion a few times before. Primarily, it is to clarify for the body that the basis for your decision needs to be focused on the UDC criteria and the extent of what that decision is before you tonight. At times, It's maybe more clear than it is tonight what other sort of peripheral arguments are made to you that might be intended to sway you from the specific decision before you. But it is supposed to be narrow when it is a quasi-judicial. It's supposed to be what you are presented with. through both the staff materials, as well as, of course, the public hearing and comments this evening, as well as the rest of the record that has been presented to you.

I'm gonna hold back the rest of my questions after my comments.

Council members, questions? Is there a motion on this item?

I guess I should ask my, just for staff, I wanted to ask three things. The main points, there was two points of what the challenge was on. One of them was the process was not followed. And I think Ms. Woodward, you tried to address that. Can you expound on that? Did the process in the UDC, can you give some points of clarification on that it was followed or what areas it's being challenged in? Because I think you've looked into it and I saw in the narrative the process was followed.

we believe the process was followed and outlined and that it was identified and gone through the similar process. So it was identified on the agenda. There was an open comment. There's a slide that sometimes their language of open to, and the chair also clarified at the meeting that any public comment could be done in open comment as it relates to anything on the agenda, which included a reports and recommendations for the certificate of appropriateness at the meeting.

Okay, so just to clarify, when I read the process wasn't followed, that's the specific point where there were no other, the process wasn't followed? Because I know today we're not, a lot of our comments, our public testimony is not specifically about these points of law, they're about the project overall. And I couldn't tell if that statement of the process wasn't followed was bigger than just the open comment versus public hearing.

We tried to summarize what we received in terms of the appeal application, and that was one of the items that was identified was the process wasn't followed, and as we evaluated it and followed the UDC process, we are noting that we believe the process was followed appropriately.

Okay, and then the second point was that, and I don't know how to summarize this, but this not using the National Register or something about our process made it so that we can't go to the National Register. Can you expand on that?

Yes, I can. So as part of the HPC, the certificate of appropriateness is really evaluating the local ordinance district, but to kind of give a little bit more context to this as part of, because of the Army Corps of Engineers evaluating the project as well, Through that process, there's what is called a 106 process where there's an additional review that's done. And that also includes a report that is reviewed by the state SHPO office that evaluates National Register as well. As they were evaluating it and noting it, any changes that are being proposed would not hinder any application for a National Register application, but that was not part of the application that was reviewed by the Heritage Preservation Commission. It was really looking at our local ordinance and doing a certificate of appropriateness for a major alteration. So that is evaluated against our design guidelines and criteria which are in the packet and was evaluated by the Heritage Preservation Commission and made a recommendation to approve that certificate of appropriateness.

Okay, and the last point I'm going to make, this isn't in the report, but there's something I consider new tonight coming up, and that is this is the staff plan and not something that's coming from the council. Do you have any background with that or where that's coming from?

I don't necessarily have any additional details on that. I think what was reviewed and what's kind of before you is really that appeal for the certificate of appropriateness. So that was the extent was reviewing the elements of what is being proposed as part of the project and the potential impacts to the landmark, which is Silver Lake Park.

Okay, thank you. And just for Council President here, again, I'm going back and I'm trying to look at my history here. The first council vote on this project was six to one and it was like the fourth quarter of 2020 before most of us were seated here. And that was a council vote of six to one. So to do this project and the directive to staff was find the funding. So this idea that this is staff dream this up and have forced it on us or hidden it from us, I just can't find any finding in fact for that.

Thank you, council member. Any other questions, comments? Is there a motion on this item?

I'll move to deny the appeal to overturn the certificate of appropriateness approved for alterations to Silver Lake Park and the HPC as the HCP followed the UDC procedures and approved the alterations based on the findings of fact contained in their July 28, 2026 agenda packet.

Motion made by Council Member Keene. Second. Seconded by Council Member Doering. More to add, Council Member Keene?

Yeah, again, I just brought up a little bit of the historic nature of this, that this has been going on for five and six years, and it is a complicated thing to do, and it is tied to dredging. There's a lot of ways to do this, but it also... It takes a long time because we didn't have the funding to do this. And therefore we went out and tried to apply to these state things. And again, I'm just trying to balance this idea of the concern for the nature of the park when this is really the Department of Natural Resources, the DNR, giving us these grants, actually more than we applied for because they're saying this is an important ecological thing. There's also this idea that the dam itself is historically protected, but I think that a lot of where this started out was public works couldn't get these trails underneath Broadway and keeping people who want to get to Silver Lake off of Broadway or crossing Broadway without getting rid of the high dam heads. So that's where it started out, but then it became this natural improvement for some of our waterways. And some of the different testimony calls that out. This idea of Going back to where it is, it's sort of painful because from the beginning, this is really to make better use of the lake and do it at this time of dredging. So that's why I make the motion tonight.

Council Member Doering, more to add?

I appreciate Council Member Keene's line of questioning. That was the line of questioning I was going to pursue. So I appreciate you asking those questions and the specifics of that. So just wanted to say thanks.

I'll weigh in, and I am going to support this motion, and primarily because it is our quasi-judicial responsibility, and I do believe that the HPC did follow the UDC procedures, and it is very detailed as far as in the findings, in fact. But I do want to address also what Councilmember Keene brought up, which is WHERE DOES THIS COME FROM? I'LL TELL YOU, I'VE BEEN ON THIS DIAS FOR A YEAR AND A HALF. I RAN FOR OFFICE IN 2024. THIS WAS ONE OF THE TOP THREE ISSUES THAT I HEARD FROM CONSTITUENTS WHEN I RAN FOR OFFICE. THERE WAS A PREVIOUS COUNCIL WITH FOUR OTHER MEMBERS THAT MADE SOME DECISIONS ON THIS ISSUE. AND THIS MAY BE THE FIRST ONE THAT I AND MY NEWER COLLEAGUES HAVE MADE. BUT IT IS AN ISSUE THAT HAS BEEN BROUGHT UP IN STUDY SESSIONS, IN PUBLIC COMMUNITY ENGAGEMENT EVENTS. WE HEARD ABOUT THE ONE THAT WAS AT THE FIRE STATION. I WAS A CANDIDATE. I WAS THERE. AND SO THIS HAS BEEN AN ISSUE IN THIS COMMUNITY, AND COUNCIL MEMBERS HAVE LISTENED AND TAKEN POSITIONS ON IT. and we will continue as this process moves on its glide path in the direction that it's going, but there's no question the direction that it's going in, and it has been going in this direction for over four years. So with that, any other comments? Council Member Wall.

With others on the dais, I thank the many who have come here tonight. I have friends, some of whom I've known for 30 years, and have really respect how they help lead in the community. I have read Mr. Munson's columns in the Post Bulletin for decades until his retirement. I have great respect. Additionally to what Mr. Keene said, we made some decisions last year that I thought was leading to the project happening over the winter. but there were questions raised with the DNR. And since then, and so we did not get the permits. Since then, information has been given to the DNR that would allow this to go forward. So it seems like we have followed the process by which we are crossing our T's and dotting our I's. Straying a little bit away from what I think is the major question that Mr. Keene has appropriately drawn us to, asking the staff a rhetorical question My wife and I are among those who love walking around Silver Lake. We find that twice around is good for us and once a summer we will go to the Dairy Queen afterwards since it's a short walk from Silver Lake. There seemed to be some sentiment among the public that Silver Lake is disappearing. Will my wife and I have no place around which to walk if this project were completed?

That's a question. A question. Ms. Woodward?

I can certainly answer that. Yes, there will still be a way to walk around the Silver Lake once the project is complete.

About 85% will remain. Is that percentage about right or is that wrong?

I MIGHT HAVE TO DOUBLE CHECK ON THE PERCENT BECAUSE I DON'T WANT TO GIVE INACCURATE INFORMATION.

MR. LUXTEIN, DO YOU WANT TO ADDRESS THAT?

AARON LUXTEIN WITH OUR PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT. PART OF THE TEAM THAT APPLIED SUBMITTED THE APPLICATION TO THE HBC FOR THE CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS RELATED TO THE MAJOR ALTERATION. Yes, a couple key things to point out. The dam modification, or even we call it a dam modification, is because the lake will remain. Now, the size of the lake will be slightly altered. Approximately five acres of current lake will be converted into the Rock Arch Rapids. when you look at the entire lake itself that's about eight percent when you look at it from a historical preservation standpoint keeping in mind that the boundary is drawn at 7th street so if you just look at the part basically from broadway bridge to 7th street that would change at about 15 but from a lake standpoint it does extend beyond 7th street so in overall about eight percent of the entire lake Keep in mind that with the current proposal, it also adds approximately an acre on the east shoreline, which one gentleman mentioned during public hearing at the old snow dump. So we are looking at reestablishing that historical edge to be able to create some additional water and transition space there. And then you'll still be able to walk and a big part of the project is with the modification allows then the North Trail, North Shore Trail to pass underneath the Broadway Bridge to be able to connect to the trails on the other side without having to cross the Broadway intersection there.

Thank you. Another thread that ran through many speakers was safety. I don't know that there's a person up here who doesn't want Rochester to be safe and free of flooding. I mean, we spent tens of millions for the flood control project after 78. Do we believe that this will in any way compromise safety in Rochester during high water events?

Mr. Loccine. So before I answer that question, just one reminder that the decision and the question before council tonight is on the appeal of the HPC process. Many of the comments and questions were more directed to the project as a whole. I would remind council that yes, we did bid the project and so it's still final authorization from the council needs to come forward. It will be coming forward in the future to actually award those construction bids. So anyways, there will be an additional council action in the near future on this project. But to answer your question, the project, we've gone through great lengths working with the Army Corps of Engineers and the DNR, and of course on our side flood protection is extremely important to ensure that the proposed modification provides the same level or better of flood protection and that was we have received those approvals from the Army Corps of Engineers demonstrating that we have met that threshold.

You were kind in your reprimand and I'm sorry I asked the question.

It was appreciated, Council Member Wall, your questions. Any other comments on this? Mayor Norton.

Well, I will just say thank you to the speakers. I know it's hard to come here and present. And I know there's frustration sometimes when you come and share your thoughts and you feel like you're not heard. I want to say you have been heard. We all heard you. And we have a quasi-judicial decision to make, which we will. And the decision to move ahead with this was made quite some time ago. And I'm frustrated that folks here today aren't weren't aware of that history So I do appreciate some of the questions that were asked that defined that and I'd Councilmember wall and Mr. Luckstein covered a lot of it, but I'm just gonna reiterate really quickly. There will be a lake when we're done There will be a dam when we're done it will just not be a mechanical dam and There will be dredging done soon when this process starts of the lake area. There will be green space still around the lake. In fact, there might be a little bit more. There will be trails around the lake. Those are not going away. Talked about the dredging. And the only question that wasn't answered, and I know it's not quasi-judicial in nature, but it came up and we haven't addressed it, which has to do, and maybe no one here knows it because I don't see parks, will they do something with the weeds or the wildflowers that are around there that make approaching the lake frustrating for many? And I don't know if any of you know that information, but will we have more green up till the water so people can access the water easier?

Who wants to take that one? Yeah, I can take that question.

I don't see anybody from Parks here. Parks is the responsible party for maintaining that, but we work with Parks on that. As one commenter noted, the vegetation that was established was, from an environmental improvement standpoint because of excessive bacteria within the water body related to the geese. And so this both kept pollutants out of the water as well as it did impact how the geese interacted with the water. Several changes have been made with the management of that vegetation to open up viewing areas in strategic locations. We actually have removed some of that and altered some of the other in the maintenance practices to improve the height so that you can see over that and yet still provide the benefit. We'll continue those efforts. based on feedback from the public to ensure that viewing while also providing the aesthetics and environmental benefits that come with the vegetation.

Thank you for that. That kind of winds up all the questions that I wanted to ask. Thank you.

Thank you, Mayor. Council Member Keene.

Yeah, just before we do the vote, I wanted to clarify, a vote in support is a vote to deny the, okay, yes, yes.

With that, Clerk Caso, please call the roll.

Council Member Keene.

Aye.

Council Member Miller.

Aye.

Council Member Wall.

Aye.

Council Member Fredericks.

Nay.

Council Member Doering. Aye. Council President Schubing.

Aye.

The motion carries.

Thank you and thank you everyone for being here. We will take a six minute break. Desmond McGill.

Yes, thank you, President Schubring, Mayor Norton, members of the council, good evening. Desmond McGill with Community Development. The subject request is to approve a final plat to be known as Century Valley Fifth. The 17 and a half acre site is zoned R2, which is low density residential small lot. The owner seeks to divide the property into 16 single family residential lots. The site is located at the terminus of Bella Vista Lane, northeast, a few hundred feet southwest of the intersection of Bella Vista Lane with Bella Terra Lane. The subject property was brought into the city in 2023. The applicant recently received an approval for a major land subdivision preliminary plat from the City Council for this subdivision in July. The Century Valley Fifth final plat is consistent with the R2 zoning. The recently approved major land subdivision and the 2023 approved provides GDP. Development review committee is recommending that the city council approve the final plat subject to one condition of approval. And that concludes my introduction. I'd be happy to answer any questions at this time or after the public hearing.

Thank you, Mr. McGill. Is the applicant or applicant's representative here? Please step forward, state your name, and you have up to 10 minutes, but you do not have to use it all.

Good evening, Council President, Council Members, Mayor Norton, my name's Connor Burke with SEH. Thank you, Desmond, for elaborating on the project. Don't have much to add. We acknowledge that there is one condition to be met, and that's to complete the public works review of the civil and stormwater plans, which we understand that needs to be completed before final plan and going ahead with the recording of the final plan. So I'm happy to answer any questions.

Thank you. We will ask you back up after the public hearing. With that, I will open the public hearing. Is there anyone wishing to be heard on this item? Ms. Woodward?

Yes, just wanted to let you know, Cassidy Heights is being displayed, I believe, up there.

I'm sorry, is that an error?

The title slide has Cassidy Heights, and that's actually G3. So we just want to clarify the public hearing is for Century Valley 5th, in case there's any confusion with the public hearing.

Thank you. Yes, this is for final plat by Roger Payne to be known as Century Valley 5th. So with that, this is a public hearing. Anyone wishing to be heard on this item, please step forward. Please step forward and state your name, and you have up to five minutes.

The only, I'm Dan Fogarty and I'm one of the landowners a little bit further downstream that may be affected by this decision tonight. The only question I have is actually in the wording of this application and if I could get a clarity on that, it says the terminus of Century Ridge Drive To me, terminus normally means that's the end of the road. That's as far as it's going as in possibly a cul-de-sac or something. And the city of Rochester has made it pretty clear that any development coming up from 48th Street hook into County Road 22 should include that road there, which would eventually most likely, which would affect us. So I just wanna make sure that stopping the road at this point here, no problem at all. But if it's gonna end in a permanent cul-de-sac with homes around it, we're dead in the water. And we're paying a lot of taxes on something that's not gonna ever go anywhere. So that needs to be left open for future. And as far as I know, that's the plan. I just not too sure about this wording here in this. So if I could be assured that that will continue at some point in the future, I'm gonna go home with a big old smile on my face. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Fogarty. This is a public hearing. Anyone else wishing to be heard on this item, please step forward. Anyone wishing to be heard on this item, please step forward. Seeing no one, I will close the public hearing and invite Mr. Burke up and maybe you can answer Mr. Fogarty's question.

Yeah, I hope I understand that correctly. I mean, right now the subdivision will be 16 lots and have essentially two cul-de-sacs, nothing more planned to the south or west. Any other connections, future connections would go through another traffic study. which would obviously have to go through the city as well. But that's, we've done our traffic study to this point. They're just gonna have the two cul-de-sacs there with those 16 lots. That's the only thing we're doing. There's no plans for any other connection as part of this development. Hopefully I answered that. Thank you.

With that, I will invite my colleagues to ask any questions of staff or the applicant. Questions? Council Member Palmer, it's great to have you back.

Thank you. Question for Public Works. Is this gonna continue or is it gonna end?

Mr. Dombrowski.

Good evening, Mayor, President, members of the Council. As noted by the consultant with this project, there's not a connection to Silver Creek Road, but there is a planned connection, which is Shannon Oaks. Boulevard Northeast that will eventually be required to be connected to Silver Creek Road. It's based on the traffic volumes allowed, sort of allotted to the overall development of this area. So there is a plan and it will connect down to Silver Creek Road in the future.

So Mr. Fogarty's property would be able to be accessed on this? Correct. And Mr. Fogarty, it said 48th Street, if I heard that correctly. It's really Silver Creek? Did I hear that wrong, or did he?

Are you here for Cassidy? Yes.

This is Century. Yeah. I understand. Yeah.

Well, we should take that on with the next public hearing.

That's what I thought. Okay. Thank you.

other comments okay clearly we did have a problem with the uh label on our slides here so um this is the century valley fifth project so with that is there a motion i'll make a motion

Adopting a resolution for final plat number CD2026-019PLAT by Roger Payne with one condition to be known as Century Valley Fifth subdividing 17.62 acres into 16 residential lots. Second.

Motion made by Council Member Fredericks and seconded by Council Member Palmer. Any further comments, Council Member? Seeing none, all in favor say aye. Aye. Opposed say nay. Motion passes. Moving on to G3, which is a major land subdivision by RJR Land Development LLC to be known as Cassidy Heights. Mr. Miguel.

Thank you, President Shubring, Mayor Norton, members of the council. Good evening again. The subject request is approval for a major land subdivision, preliminary plat to be known as Cassidy Heights. The nearly 13 acre site is mostly zoned R1 single family residential. There is a small portion of the site that is zoned R2 low density small lot. The owner seeks to divide the subject parcel into 18 single-family lots and one out lot. The site is located south of the intersection of 48th Street Northeast and 22nd Avenue Street at the current terminus of Cassidy Ridge Drive Northeast. The Cassidy Ridge Heights Major Land Subdivision Platte is consistent with both the R1 and R2 zoning provisions and the 2013 GDP amendment for uh stone uh stone hedge estates the subdivision includes a mix of single family and uh residential units generally about 90 feet in width uh about 140 to 300 feet in depth ranging in size from 0.29 acres to 1.3 acres in size this subdivision consists of just one residential collector road cassidy ridge drive it currently terminates at the south end or the north end of this development And this development will continue it on further to the east, which will eventually be picked up by the next subdivision joining it, which will take that street alignment direction. that in the current terminus that will be placed at the end of this one and extended to the Stonehenge Heights or Stonehenge Estates property to the south. Cassidy Ridge Drive will end in a temporary cul-de-sac constructed with this subdivision. And the property owner is also proposing the restoration of an intermittent creek that runs through the lots on the south side of Cassidy Ridge Drive, which would be protected with an easement upon final plat. Both the Development and Review Committee and the Planning and Zoning Commission are recommending approval of the application subject to four conditions. After our August 12th meeting, Planning Commission approved this application or recommended approval with a 6-0 vote. This concludes my introduction. I'd be happy to answer any questions.

Thank you, Mr. McGill. Is the applicant here or a representative of the applicant? Please step forward, state your name, and you have up to 10 minutes.

Hello, council, mayor, council president, esteemed staff. Great job, Desmond. I'm Dan Horsch, civil engineer and project manager on the project. I really don't have much to add. There's an adequate description there, so available for questions, if any.

Okay, we'll invite you up after the public hearing. With that, I will open the public hearing, and we have one person who signed up, Mr. Matt Gosher, Gosherian.

Good evening.

Please state your name because I know I wrecked it.

My name is Matt Goshgarian. I got close. Close. I feel like my request is quite petty compared to all the previous speakers who came up to this microphone tonight. But I'll stay on topic. And I don't object to this new development. I had reached out to my council member, Mr. Sean Palmer, as well as Dan Horsch. I live on Cameo Place Northeast, so this new development will happen. literally in my backyard. My minor request to the city or perhaps to the development company would be just to plant a few trees. In the spirit of planting a few trees, I'm asking for three to five trees. Where that dirt road is currently, so right now there's an access road that the RPU company uses to get back to a pump house. The last time we spoke at the public hearing at Century High School back in July, we brought up potentially that that road may go away because it can be accessed by the new development. So if that's the case, my one request is, could we just plant a few trees where that dirt road currently is?

Thank you for your consideration. Thank you, Mr. Kashgarian. This is a public hearing. Anyone wishing to be heard on this item, please step forward. Anyone wishing to be heard on this item, please step forward. Seeing no one, I will close the public hearing and invite Mr. Harsh to back to the microphone. And if you can address Mr. Gashgarian's question on trees.

Certainly. I did email Troy Erickson, the City Public Works and RPU Water regarding their plans for the access road and potentially planting some trees there, because there will be an access off the new roadway to the well house. So they were gonna address it once we got further along in the process. But there is some development agreement things in the works, so we'll let you know when it gets straightened out. We like trees. Sure do.

With that, are there questions for the applicant or staff? You can sit down again. Council Member Palmer.

So we have an access right now. I'm assuming we have an easement that goes to that property. Are we going to abandon that easement then and go off of the road?

I believe that's a possibility. That's an RPU easement from my understanding, going down to the well house from Camino Drive. So ultimately that could be vacated. We have not received a request yet to do that.

But their plan is to come off of the permanent drive?

That would be my understanding.

Are we granting them an easement to do that?

From the street?

Yeah.

It's a public street.

Public street, I mean, they have public access right there. The well house is right on the frontage.

It's very close to the frontage, correct. Outlaw A surrounds the well house, but immediately next to Outlaw A is the public street, the collector road that runs through the development.

when would be the best time for the city to vacate that easement?

I think once the final plan is done. I mean, obviously we need to maintain, keep that access available until such time where that street improvement is put in, but I would imagine shortly after, if we're accessing it from Cassidy Ridge Drive, then we probably should vacate it shortly after, unless there's some reason to keep it that I'm not aware of.

Okay, thank you. Further questions? Council Member Keene.

I'm just going to do a follow-up on the last. We had the discussion on the terminus road. Is that applying to this thing or is it something else?

I think maybe what he was looking at is we stated that it was located at the terminus of Cassidy Ridge Drive, which is correct. It is a temporary terminus. This development will continue Cassidy Ridge Drive further to the south into the east, and then once this one is done, they will cap it with a cul-de-sac, temporary again, and then take that road into the stone hedge development further to the east when that project comes along.

Can you clarify, is this area under a general development plan?

It is, and it's consistent with the proposed general development plan that was approved back in 2013.

So the general development plan in 2013 already laid out the roads and the zoning? Yes. So, okay. So again, it's terminus right now, but in a general development plan, it's not like someone's going to come in and say, no, we're going to do the road somewhere else. That's already been decided.

Correct.

Okay. That's what I thought of. Just, just clarifying. Council member Palmer.

I'll go off of Mr. Keene. With Mr. Forger, you talked about 48th street. Eventually somehow you're going to connect up to 48th street. Is that not correct with the GDP?

I can take that one. Mr. Dombrowski? Correct. The GDP had additional access to 48th Street Northeast. A previous plat that's been constructed would be Stonehenge Drive, so just to the east of this project that will eventually continue north to 48th Street. Perfect. Thank you.

Is there a motion on this item? Yeah.

Make a motion adopting a resolution approving major land subdivision number CD2026-015PLT by RJR Land Development LLC with four conditions. Second. That works. to be known as Cassidy Heights, subdividing 12.77 acres into 18 residential lots.

Second. Motion made by Councilmember Fredericks and seconded by Councilmember Keene. He got in a little bit quicker. Any further comments, Councilmember?

Thanks for your work.

With that, all in favor say aye.

Aye.

Opposed say nay. Motion passes. Thank you. Moving on to, thank you for being here. Moving on to our reports and recommendations, we have H1, which is Chateau Theater Operating Partnership and Authorization, Mr. Ryan Yetzer.

Good evening, council. Thanks for having me tonight. I'm here to talk about the Chateau Theater and follow up from the study session from October, or excuse me, from August 10th. So I'm intentionally sort of skipping into the conversation from August 10th, and I'm skipping over a lot of the table setting that I had done on August 10th, sharing with all of the history and those sorts of things that have led us to this point. So, you know, to jump right into it, I'd like to start by sharing, you know, summarizing what we heard from the study session on August 10th. And so, these are sort of the five themes that we feel like we heard from the study session. The top three being the ones we heard the loudest between having accessible, having the space accessible to the community, supporting the local arts community and community programming, creating downtown activity, accommodating private events and revenue opportunities, and then supporting the visitor and destination experiences. So we heard those through the comments that you all provided during that study session. And if I'm missing something there, please chime in or hopefully I'm capturing it in one of these future slides. But the questions that we have sort of coming out of that is what is the right set of mix of uses and what are we missing here? And so the next slide here, this is really, I think, what was missing from the August 10th presentation based on the feedback that we got from you all. So first let me just say that I've had the pleasure of working with Experience Rochester for the last handful of months on this, and I will tell you that they are excited about the opportunity to deliver on the vision of the council. What we need to better understand is exactly what is the vision of the council so we make sure that we, in partnership with Experience Rochester, successfully deliver that vision. And so this is what we're putting in front of you, and I'm hoping for feedback on this. This is the mix of uses that Experience Register had in mind when they put the pro forma in front of you folks on August 10th. And so what it breaks down to is about 30% community or public use, 30% private events, 20% ticketed performances, and 20% seasonal and destination. Now, the devil's in the details of what exactly do each of those things mean, how do we define them, those sorts of things, that would all be sorted out through a future operations agreement with Experience Register, along with key performance indicators, those sorts of things, to make sure that we know they're performing on those things. I would also... sort of emphasize the importance of building into the contract the ability to revisit these things. As we've talked about in the past, particularly the blue box directly, the rate that we're talking about is directly impacted by the success of the other boxes. And so I think as we dig into this through year one, year two, year three, so on, we will better understand what is that mix between how can you have low cost access while also generating enough revenue to offset the low cost access. And I think Experience Rochester is a fantastic partner to help us figure that out as we go and their ability to sort of track those metrics and their industry expertise in that space will help guide us for sure. But I also think we have to have a starting point of what we expect or what the council expects Experience Rochester's targets to be. We also heard the importance of designing community access, meaningful community access. And I want to emphasize that that can be accomplished through the process that we have ahead of us of coming to terms with Experience Register to operate the space. So establishing an expectation that local arts nonprofits and community programming within the overall mix of uses, that is something that we are focused on and that we hear loud and clear and that we will work with Experience Register to really work that into the expectation. I think, again, I've had the pleasure of talking with Experience Register for a while now. I know this is something they are extremely focused on and excited about. I hear the feedback that this isn't necessarily the exact model that operates at the Civic Center where Experience Rochester currently manages one of our facilities. This is a different building and would be operated in a different way. And I want to emphasize that, that I think everybody hears that and acknowledges that and that's what we're working towards. We know the importance of an affordable access model. We've been talking about things like a cost structure, going back to the previous slide of the different mixes of uses, and then thinking about what is the cost structure for each of those things. This isn't unique. We've done this in other facilities. Additionally, since August 10th, we've been talking about perhaps we create a community access fund to help offset some of the costs. of the maybe lower cost arts community programming that we're interested in making sure the Chateau continues to support. And then of course establishing criteria for those types of programs. We heard lots of feedback or questions maybe around the 300,000. So again, this is a 300,000 investment on top of the operating investment that we already make. So this would come out to roughly 400 to 450,000 and change. a year of operating investment, and that is an additional investment above what we currently contribute. And this would allow Experience Rochester to really add that boots on the ground staff member to build the relationships and the partnerships that I think we are all very focused on them creating to successfully operate this space in the manner that we're talking about. This would also allow them to create the programs like we talked about with the Community Access Fund and those sorts of things. They have lots of ideas on how this funding allows them to deliver the vision that you all have been talking about. we will continue to flush out exactly what that means, but this is what they think they would need to successfully deliver the activation goals that I think we all have for the space and the reason the building was purchased in the first place. So what happens next? The idea is to hear feedback from you all. There's a resolution in front of you tonight that you all hopefully have reviewed. We could make edits to it depending on the feedback that we hear today. But that is really going to be what drives our next steps as city staff members. And so we're looking for you folks to confirm the expectation, the mix of uses that I mentioned on an earlier slide. We are looking for the council to signal their interest in identifying Experience Rochester as a preferred partner. That doesn't solidify or tie us to a binding contract, but that gives staff clear direction on where we should take this next. It directs the city staff to conduct city experience Rochester and specifically RDA engagement to make sure that what the the mix and the the tiered cost structure and those sorts of things align with the expectations of Downtown stakeholders and those that have used the space frequently such as the RDA next the resolution would present an operating partnership and approximately 6.2 million in capital improvement framework to the DMCC board, and it would direct us as staff to go to the DMCC meeting at the end of September and ask for an indication of their interest in advancing this proposed partnership to deliver on the vision that was established back in 2015-16 when the building was purchased. So, if that is the vote that happens tonight and is the resolution that is approved, over the next handful of months, we'll work with Experience Register to iron out that operating framework. We will define those items that I said need more definition. We will work on the focused community engagement and establishing performing measures, and we'll refine the capital scope based on the intended operation. And then next comes, again, as I talked about in August, the yes, yes, and yes model. We would need all three boards to agree this doesn't work without one of the three legs on the stool. And so we need to find a way to get to a spot where all three of the partners come to the table and want to deliver on this vision. And so that would come later this fall. So, again, I won't read this slide, but this is essentially what the resolution directs staff to do is sort of four things. Work on the advance the agreement with Experience Rochester, work on the community engagement, head to the DMCC board to receive their feedback and interest in continuing the partnership. And then we would return back to you. I know there was a question of when do we think is realistic for these items to be ironed out? Again, as of this moment, the Chateau goes dark on January 1st. And so we are moving as quick as we can. And I would hope that we can iron these things out and have it back before you before the end of the year in a way that would allow us to go back to the DMCC in December for their approval so that when that happens on January 1st, we can quickly start moving on the capital improvements that are needed to the space. And so with that I will happily field any questions or feedback that you folks have.

Thank you, Mr. Yetzer. And thank you to you and Mr. Ward. And I think we are getting more clarity on kind of the pieces of the pie there. And with the 30% community, public, 30% private, 20% ticketed performance, and 20% seasonal destination. So I think there is kind of Different people call things different. I mean, there's semantics involved in this. So if you looked at what Threshold Arts has done in the last four years, and I think there's a lot of support for that community, whatever you're going to call it, where does that piece fit in, and how does the 30% of community support public compared to what has been in there and I guess what I just to kind of say what my objective is we don't want to see less community events and I do know that you know we're looking at having more days of events so can you make a commitment that there will not be less community events?

Yeah, I mean, again, our goal here is to take, is to build upon the success that Threshold Arts has started. So, you know, Threshold Arts has, say, 100 and change events there a year. Their data reflects about 50% of them are community lower cost or even free events. So my hope would be that we can continue to build upon those events and also lean into Experience Rochester's expertise to build on top of that and fill the space more frequently with events that are maybe that rely on Experience Rochester's marketing and promotions ability that we've not been able to tap into in the past. I would also note that one of the metrics that Threshold Arts measures now is free access into the space or having the doors open, et cetera. And I would just say it's sort of hard to compare that data to what Experience Rochester is proposing because essentially based on that $300,000 investment, Experience Rochester is proposing to have the doors open virtually every day unless it has a private event because they are proposing to have a visitor center out of there. that would substantially change the numbers that we see from Threshold Arts. And so I certainly think we can build on what the great work that Nora and her team has started.

Council Member Keene.

Yeah, again, coming from the August study session, I think I do have a better appreciation now of the complexity of trying to get a council and have a vision from a seven-person board and then dealing with a DMC board that has a different view and then also looking at experience. So I'm kind of appreciating the complexities a bit more. I think you are on one of the key, points here right now is how much of this is the community aspect of it as opposed to turning over another city asset and say, see if you can run this because we can't. And I think that dance is where we really have to come down to that there is still community value and that these groups that have been getting value from it, continue to get value, and we're not just saying, no, we're leaving that operating model. And I'm hearing some of that in this, but I think that's part of what we have to go through and watch the feedback on DMCC and also what happens at the other board. One question specific, the 300K that we're talking about on the city side, is that, like, is there a vision that that could come from the hospitality tax, or is that something that's beyond the usage?

Council President, Council Member Keene, the intent is that based on where our collections are at with lodging tax, that you would be able to support that with increased lodging tax collections.

Okay, thank you. Other questions? Council Member Wall.

Considering that $300,000 annual investment, Do we have an idea of how we could do an ROI on that to say, you know, here's how this has been effective for the city of Rochester, and so it really wouldn't cost us $300,000, even if we can cover it with a tax or with a lodging tax. We're not doing this just to keep a person employed at a chateau.

Yeah, I think what you're asking, you can correct me if I'm wrong, is like what is the economic impact of the investment we're making, not only in the 300,000, but in the potential capital improvements as well. And it's one of the things that I have been talking with Experience Rochester about, and one of the reasons I'm excited to partner with them on this is they have the skills and tools and expertise to be able to answer that sort of question for us. particularly as we start honing in on what is that use mix and those sorts of things they can help us understand well if we're successful on that what is the economic impact of the investment we're making and certainly as we enter into an agreement look back a year and can see the events that have happened in the year they would be able to tell us what their direct economic impact has been from the events they've put on and so I think it's a question we'll be able to answer in the future.

And I was doing some quick math in my head when you were talking about 100 and some nights, and half of those were the kind of free local community access. So that's 50, maybe 60. That works out quite favorably in terms of the percentages of 30%. of maybe 300 nights a year. That's 90 nights that would be then open for more local access. Does that math resonate at all?

Yeah, I think the math resonates. It's predicated on my memory being correct on the number of events and the percentages that have been there historically. But if my memory is correct, then yeah, I think that that is the math that we would be starting to look at. And I hope those are the details we can iron out and have those exact type of targets when we come back with an agreement.

And I think part of the need for many in the community, and you talked about that in terms of the community fund, is that we need to keep the cost low enough so that particular, especially performing groups might have an opportunity to apply their wares in a way that will make this a better community.

Right.

And I think Mr. Ward, I've had a chance to talk with him. I think he clearly heard what we have been saying, and I think this can work very well. Council Member Fredericks.

Yeah, thanks for your presentation, Mr. Yetzer. It was good. I like your breakdown of the four quarters, like the percentages of... groups you're going to have in there are ticketed events and so on i just want to share one neat thing that i witnessed i went over to the board gaming thing they had there this year and what a perfect space for that i had no clue what i was i just went in there with an open mind i just wanted to check it out and the place was packed with people five years old to 80 years old everybody playing uh talking it was neat i walked around there with the lady that was basically putting it on with her and her husband and they gave me a tour and i was just my eyes were really open to things that obviously I haven't participated in the past. It was neat to see. So having those types of things in that space are great. That brings a lot of people to downtown that you don't see on a Saturday afternoon. Honestly, sometimes it's a ghost town down there if there isn't an event going on. So it was nice to see that. I see a really critical piece of this being successful is the DMC funding for this. It's a large capital investment. I wanna make sure that we got our ducks in a row and we can make that happen because we're gonna be taking on operating that thing for eternity and that isn't gonna get cheaper either. So in the beginning stages here, I really wanna make sure we have that piece in place to make it happen.

Council Member Palmer.

Thank you.

Threshold Arts has done a very good job in talking with them. A few of the things that we had problems with was one is the liquor license that we didn't have. Now we have that. One of them was use of the mezzanine, which it sounds like we can fix that problem. We haven't quite yet. And then the sound system, getting that upgraded. We've got the structure part of that taken care of. You know, Experience Rochester to me, what they did at the 4th of July in short notice was such a phenomenally great event for Rochester. And I participated in that and family participated in that. And I just, I think that they have that, be able to do that type of thing and bring people to downtown and really make it an experience, hence their name. I think that that would be a phenomenally good thing for us. And so I like your proposal. I have confidence in the Experience Rochester people.

Councilmember Miller.

I appreciate the opportunity to continue to refine a plan and I think we are moving in a good direction, a better direction. I've been trying to think myself about exactly how to frame what I'm hearing from the community. And I think the best way I would put as a positive example of where I see this happening is every time Chancellor Carroll comes to us to share something that's going on with UMR, she reinforces the three principles of UMR, of the system, and ends with partnerships make it possible. And it feels like every presentation is really anchored in that idea, and it's shown in action over time. And so with any operating model, I know at the outset we won't be able to prove that this that we we collectively mean what we say but I think it is going to be important to continue to say over and over and show that in action and so what I don't necessarily see in the slide of what we heard what needs clarification is how it really is going to take experience Rochester and the community coming together in partnership to make this successful and so whether that's in governance of the experience or board, clarification of staffing, community access fund that is decided and administered perhaps with partners, making sure that those funds are reaching the parts of the community that are not already rising to our collective attention, right? I mean, we know what Latino Fest is or some of the large events, the new standards, the Shabby Road Orchestra. the night market, other things that have been built up and people have poured their their hearts and souls and time into. But that might not look like a successful event up front. And the other part that I would just add clarification on on the slide about the mix of uses I THINK GENERALLY THIS COULD REFLECT A BALANCE THAT COULD WORK, BUT WHAT WE'VE TALKED ABOUT WITH THE SPORTS PLEX IS THAT COMMUNITY USE WOULD COME SECONDARILY TO PRIME FULL RATE PAYING AND EXPERIENCE ROCHESTER IS NOT OPERATING THAT FACILITY AND I WANT TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT, BUT WE'VE TOLD THE COMMUNITY AT DIFFERENT PLACES WE WILL OPEN ACCESS when it's not booked for something else and so what i feel like is missing in this mix of uses is that some of those community free events that are really targeted towards the community have to be on the prime nights the the saturdays the fridays you know those those dates that are most in demand and might likely have somebody that would pay more because it's early summer, late spring, those times when people want to have events or a fall season when the weather's really nice. And so I think making sure that the prioritization, it's not just the mix of like every Monday and Tuesday it's available to the community, but those aren't necessarily the nights and times that are most. And so I would think about that building into the operating model to make sure there's some prioritization as well.

IS THERE A QUESTION? THERE WAS A QUESTION IN THERE, WASN'T THERE? I'M SORRY.

COUNCIL PRESIDENT, COUNCIL MEMBER, I THINK IT COULD BE HELPFUL FOR ME TO RECAP SOME OF THE DISCUSSION THAT HAPPENED AT THE EXPERIENCE ROCHESTER BOARD MEETING BETWEEN AUGUST 10TH AND TODAY. THERE WAS A LOT OF DISCUSSION OF THAT ACTUALLY BY THE BOARD OF HOW THIS IS SOMETHING DIFFERENT how Experience Rochester is operating now, and that's going to be important to build into the success metrics. There was conversation there at a prior board meeting about how we will be building, maybe a different way of saying what Ryan said, is they are building it off of a community-centric model, so it will likely need to grow into those other segments. Those will not likely be the first things that magically appear at the Chateau. Those are going to take a fair amount of time and effort, even conversation about the concept that maybe there needs to be a different brand for this because there's already two brands for Experience Rochester and Civic Center Operations because they do slightly different things and that's important in that world. and making sure it's clear to people that this is a different operation than the Civic Center or destination marketing, although it can benefit from some of those things, that that would be important. There was discussion that part of the request is to be able to have DEDICATED EMPLOYEES WITH LEADERSHIP THAT IS FOCUSED ON A COMMUNITY CENTRIC OPERATION AND HONESTLY THERE WAS HONEST CONVERSATION ABOUT ALL OF THOSE THINGS THAT THE HARDER I'LL JUST SAY IT BLUNTLY THE HARDER PART TO GROW WILL BE THE NON-COMMUNITY PART OF THE CHATEAU BECAUSE IT HAS BEEN VERY SUCCESSFUL AS THAT AND THE LAST THING IS ESCAPING ME BUT THERE WAS ALSO DISCUSSION OF HAVING LIKE THINKING ABOUT IN THE OPERATING MODEL IS THERE some separate governance, especially if you're talking about a community fund so that it's not perceived that there's, you know, this group picking who's getting this versus perhaps some process not fleshed out of groups that utilize the facility or that would like to utilize the facility or start a new event or grow an existing event, something of that nature. So none of it fleshed out, but all of those things came up and were either brought up by individual board members, the board president, or came up through, there was fairly robust discussion, and I don't know if I'm missing anything from your perspective for the piece that you were at, Mr. Yetzer.

Go ahead, Mr. Yetzer. I don't have anything bad. I think you covered it well.

So yes, important and all in different ways acknowledged through that board. So I think hopefully that brings a little bit of certainty that everyone is thinking about that, maybe from different lenses, but how do we make sure that that's built into the expectations and in the follow-ups of Maybe we're not gonna meet the private event market unless we really try to focus in on X, Y, Z based on what is learned. The final thing I did wanna mention, apologies, is they do have tools that they utilize for Experience Rochester Now. It's different than some of the wayfinding tools that we use, but they use a group called Zartico that has a lot of data and information about where people are coming from and going And so depending on how robust that might be, that also might tell us, are we getting mostly residents, not like how is this not just delivering economically, but delivering for community vibrancy? And I think everyone here is interested in bringing more people downtown, not just visitors, but people that live in Rochester or the surrounding communities. So there, I think could be value in that. I don't know that we could promise that, but they have, there was a update on the insights provided by that vendor at that same meeting.

Thank you. If I may.

You have more questions, Council Member? I'll just say.

I APPRECIATE THE ADDITIONAL CLARIFICATION AND THAT MAKES ME FEEL MORE CONFIDENT THAT WE CAN BE MOVING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION AND I APPRECIATE ESPECIALLY THE MENTION OF POTENTIALLY A DIFFERENT BRAND. I THINK PEOPLE MAY HAVE A CERTAIN EXPERIENCE OR EXPECTATION FOR THE CIVIC CENTER ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT IT'S AVAILABLE AND I THINK IF THIS FEELS LIKE THE CIVIC CENTER CHATEAU ADDITION, WE MIGHT NOT BE STARTING FROM A NEUTRAL PLACE WITH COMMUNITY EXPECTATIONS TRUST FEELING THAT THAT COULD BE ACCESSIBLE. I would also just mention that I think the community building fund at the city has been quite effective and that many of those funded grant requests or events, many of them might even happen at the Chateau. So perhaps there's an avenue there to consider partnership as well in establishing what a community fund is. And we've even had the modification of adding some energy-related projects, RPU-related projects that can happen PERHAPS IN THAT SPACE AS WELL AND EVOLVE THE IDEA WHERE THERE IS A PROCESS AND EXPECTATION OF COMMUNITY TRUST BUILT FOR NEW FUNDING SOURCES THAT MAYBE HAVE SPECIFICS. SO I APPRECIATE THAT. THANK YOU.

COUNCILMEMBER DORING.

YEAH, I REALLY APPRECIATE THE THOUGHTS THAT COUNCILMEMBER MILLER JUST SHARED AS WELL AS THE CLARIFICATION FROM CITY ADMINISTRATOR ZELMS. It's no surprise that at the last study session I was a little bit flummoxed by what was being presented, and I appreciate the clarity of the model set before us today. I'm more confident that we're moving in the right direction, especially since, and this is throwing no shade to experience Rochester, that we're not locking us into an operating agreement. right now. I think there's still plenty of legwork to do before I would be prepared to enter into that operating agreement. That being said, I will fully support this going to the DMCC board, and I would encourage my colleagues who are members of that board to express the pain and suffering that our local arts organizations, our local musicians, our independent artists have felt, by DMC thus far. Those who have reached out to me have talked about how DMC has really been to no benefit of them. In fact, it's been a detriment to their artistry, to everything from, well, removing performance venues in this community due to construction or to increased development. I would almost encourage them to play this as a strategic way for DMC or DMCC to rebuild some community trust and goodwill to a segment of our community that is really suffering at this point. So that's just the words I wanted to share with my colleagues. That all being said, I'm ready to go forward with this.

Council Member Keene.

Yeah, and just in being like forthcoming, trying to communicate to the staff the kind of the vision, I'm gonna just kind of build off Council Member Miller too, and this idea of like, we have the Chateau and then we have Mayo Civic Center, and it's almost like we're saying, well, we're gonna use that model. And I think the way we're going about it now is like, no, there is, the Chateau is a different place. I've worked with and watched Experience Rochester try to really live that civic part of the Civic Center and how do we bring in events there. And I've seen them do some things, but they're usually like one offs to individual groups. They put on a great New Year's party family-wise for a while now, and I think they are trying to live out that mission, but I wouldn't say it's in conflict, but it has to live side-by-side with the idea of having this experience Rochester and being the front door and trying to invite other groups in. So I hope... Right, I hope this council is communicating. We want to have that sort of Outside sort of things, but we also want to be a civic and a community and you know like grassroots groups using these things too and that's part of our of our public mission and

Thank you, Councilmember. I'll weigh in. And I started off with the community piece. And I think you're hearing from everybody that we really want that community piece and we want to have some kind of trusted partnership between Experience Rochester and a trusted community group. That said, I don't want us to miss the advantage that we're getting with Experience Rochester. We've had The Chateau, which we've had for a decade, and the council very astutely four years ago said, we want to turn the lights on. We want to use that space. We don't know what it's going to be, but we're going to use that space. And we entered into a partnership with Threshold Arts. and it built into a community space that is valuable to our community. That is something that we want to continue. But we do need to move and stretch the potential of the Chateau. And the DMCC, of which the mayor and I sit on, their perspectives aren't the same as ours. They're not the same. They overlap. But if you look at the DMCC, the objective is destination for the city. Now that destination doesn't necessarily mean only patients and visitors. You look at ticketed performances, 20%, ticketed performances to residents of Rochester, 20% destination, seasonal destination events. That is for citizens of Rochester as well. So I AM VERY CONFIDENT WITH THIS PLAN AND THE BEGINNINGS OF THIS PLAN THAT I CAN GO TO MY COLLEAGUES ON THE DMCC BOARD AND SAY THE CITY IS GIVING YOU A PLAN AND WE'RE ASKING FOR THE 6.2 MILLION IN CAPITAL FUNDS. WE HAVE TO HAVE THE BEGINNINGS OF A PLAN AND I DO BELIEVE THAT WE HAVE THAT IN FRONT OF US HERE. SO I'M LOOKING FORWARD TO WORKING ON THAT PIECE OF IT. THANK YOU.

I APPRECIATE THE DISCUSSION I APPRECIATE THE DISCUSSION AND LOOKING FORWARD TO YOUR AND LOOKING FORWARD TO YOUR ENERGETIC SPEECH AT THE DMCC ENERGETIC SPEECH AT THE DMCC BOARD.

BOARD. YOURS AS WELL. YOURS AS WELL.

I WILL BE THERE WITH YOU. I WILL BE THERE WITH YOU. THIS IS INTERESTING OVER THE THIS IS INTERESTING OVER THE COURSE OF EIGHT YEARS. COURSE OF EIGHT YEARS. WHEN I FIRST JOINED THE COUNCIL Before Joe was hired, this board, the board that was here prior, was concerned that they were costing the city too much and they needed to be making more money. And now here we are, these years later, they have been able to turn the Civic Center around and make money, but what we're saying to them is we still want that civic part and now we have another facility there. to do that. So I think we can have a lovely convention center and a wonderful civic center and I'm gonna trust them based on what I'm seeing here and hearing from the board to be able to provide both in an excellent way. So I think we're headed in the right direction and I'm pleased.

Is there a motion on this item? Council Member Miller.

JUST A QUESTION, ON THIS JUST A QUESTION, ON THIS TOTAL ANNUAL INVESTMENT OF TOTAL ANNUAL INVESTMENT OF $300,000 THAT BUILDS OUT SOME $300,000 THAT BUILDS OUT SOME ADDITIONAL CAPACITY, WOULD THAT BE ADDITIONAL CAPACITY, WOULD THAT BE PART OF THIS 2027 SUPPLEMENTAL PART OF THIS 2027 SUPPLEMENTAL BUDGET? BUDGET? WOULD WE HAVE A SEPARATE WOULD WE HAVE A SEPARATE DISCUSSION? DISCUSSION? IS THIS A SEPARATE ACTION FROM IS THIS A SEPARATE ACTION FROM WHAT WE'RE BEING ASKED TO DO WHAT WE'RE BEING ASKED TO DO TONIGHT?

TONIGHT?

ADMINISTRATOR ZELENS. ADMINISTRATOR ZELENS. COUNCIL PRESIDENT, COUNCIL CO if let's say it's not ready yet or there's some adjustment um that is an amendment that you could make to the budget which is just clarifying that there's additional lodging tax and a use for it okay and then this might be seemingly a minor point in this conversation i know so much of the conversation about how to

continue the established events. We've talked a lot about the community events. I would just acknowledge that Nora has built a portfolio of ticketed events that have become annual events that have been well attended. And I would just hope that that conversation of how those relationships hand off any compensation that acknowledge the hard work that she's put in. to build up regular events that include even community members who perform in music groups or other acts that find that relationship to be quite valuable. And I just hope that her hard work can also be acknowledged in this process.

Yeah, I appreciate you saying that, and I'll just emphasize that we hope that too, and that will rely in part by having Threshold Arts come to the table and help us make sure we have all that information so that we can continue those events.

Council Member Keene. I'll propose a motion to adopting a resolution providing direction to advance the Chateau Theater operating partnership and capital planning framework, including proceeding to the September 24th DMC board meeting to seek an indication of interest in advancing the proposed partnership and capital improvement framework.

Motion made by Council Member Keene. Is there a second? Second. Seconded by Council Member Doran. Council Member Keene, any more to add?

Yeah, just one thought. I mean, these things, this is a partnership of three different groups with different operating authorities and different, and that makes it difficult. There's other groups we haven't spoken to about right now, We haven't talked about the RDA and their interest and obvious connection to these things. UMR was brought up. These are other things that just make these things. These aren't just city staff doing things. These are complicated things because of that. And I think we need to state our interests and our needs and then try to meld with the other partners that we're working with.

Thank you. Did you have a comment?

I was actually going to make the motion, but that didn't work out for me.

You can make the next one. All in favor say aye. Aye. Opposed say nay. Motion passes. Thank you. Moving on to reimagining Sixth Avenue West project update. Mr. Steve Sampson-Brown.

Good evening, council members.

Evening Council Members, Council President, Mayor. We're here tonight to talk about reimagining Sixth Avenue West, provide a project update. With me tonight presenting is Cindy Zerger from Tool Design and also like to acknowledge Missy Alex is also here from Tool Design in the audience. We're gonna just talk through progress that's been made on the project since we were last here in front of you, touch on the design development, results from recent public engagement a few months ago, update you on the project milestones and timeline, and finally the project budget. So again, what is the project area? Just a quick reminder, our primary corridor that we talked to you over a year ago about is the green north to south route connecting just north past Civic Center Drive to the 2nd Street Southwest and immediately adjacent to the two orange dots, which will be the future LinkBRT platform. Additional funding was provided through the DMC allocation under a portion of the 38 million for some of the side streets. Those are indicated in purple. And I also wanna mention some of that funding, which we'll touch on more later on, comes from an overlap with work being conducted through the Bullford Unbound Initiative. So where are we at? So in 2025, did a lot of community outreach. We talked about reconnecting the downtown bike network. We landed in March in front of you, and you approved the concept of reimagined Sixth Avenue design. We immediately went into designing the project. We have just achieved the 30% design milestone, and in about 30 days, we'll be nearing the 60% complete design milestone. So we are rapidly on track. Past stakeholder engagement, again, going back to 2025's conversations, a lot of engagement opportunities. The themes we heard from people were safe pedestrian and bike intersection crossings. They wanted to see pedestrian-focused design, design with accessibility in mind for all abilities, traffic calming measures on the corridor, and separated bike lanes and protected. Our recent round of engagement was really just to inform the public through the month of June what we listened to them, how we incorporated that, and started to lay that out in the design. So we had touch base with two neighborhood associations, held a in-person and virtual open house, and most recently brought the project in front of PBAC. So really, what did we hear? So the good news is they like pedestrian and bike-focused design. I call that more of a greenway concept. So heard a lot of good things about that. More green space. Definitely felt calming on the corridor because of that green space. And the two-way north and south parking cycle track, separated behind the curb on the east side. Desires, themes that came out, more bike parking, we're definitely hearing about more people using wheels to get around in downtown, including scooters, and some people even mentioned scooter parking, so we're considering that as we advance the design. Variety of seating for all ages and all abilities on the corridor people with impaired mobility We have heard on multiple projects including this one need a backrest other people need an armrest to stand up So we are incorporating a variety of seating throughout that and Cindy will touch on the details more I wanted to address high traffic intersections we Sixth Avenue and West Center have been closed for a while, but if you go back to 2024, it was a busy intersection, and people do remember that, so they're looking for traffic calming there so they can cross it safely and comfortably. And just a stronger north-south bike connection. One of the neat things going back to 25 as we started talking to the community, we've heard from people in the Lowertown neighborhood raising their hand and saying, We want to come downtown. We don't always want to drive our car to get there. So we have tried to include that theme of a stronger connection to the Lower Town neighborhood, offering people a different opportunity and different ways to get to downtown and the fun things that happen there. And raise concerns. Again, just reiterated, high speed or unsafe operation of electric essentially e-bikes or scooters on sidewalks or in shared spaces. Again, that's a theme we've been hearing on different projects as a public work staff continue to hear it on this project. And I think we were addressing that and Cindy will touch on how we're doing that in a minute. and just ability for pedestrian and bicyclists to cross safety. We'll have two signalized intersections. We're gonna have, I would say, some of the safest crossings in downtown, at least. A lot of different elements being considered through the design development, so excited to talk more about that. With that, I'll turn it over to Cindy.

Thanks, Steve.

Welcome.

Thank you. Thank you council members, council member president and mayor for this opportunity to talk a little bit about this project. So this next section is really about the why behind the design. So yes, we are rebuilding the street and we're also thinking about how this corridor can really contribute to Rochester as a public place. and how it benefits the people who use it every day and those who are here visiting. So we wanted to start the section with this little piece about why designing great urban spaces and places matter. So you've probably heard some of this content before, but great streets and great urban places do a lot more than just move people. They do things like what's on the slide, improving well-being by creating that access to more green space, creating safe and comfortable activities on our corridors, bring people together through creating beautiful places, places for people to linger. We think there's lots of opportunity for that along this corridor as well, and helping people to really feel safe and secure with great things like lighting, safer crossings, improved access and comfort, really important features that you'll see throughout the design strategy here. Other things that they can do is improve economic development, creating places where people want to linger, they want to spend more time there. You know you want to encourage that here in Rochester. They can support long-term resilience by reducing heat, managing stormwater on-site, and improving air quality through some of the strategies that we're proposing. Also really strengthening community identity. I think that's foundational and I know you've done this on a lot of your other spaces and places within Rochester. So just that sort of nests where we're at with the project and things that we were thinking about as we were working on this corridor. So as Steve mentioned, this corridor, Sixth Avenue West, is a key connection between the expanded Mayo Clinic campus, neighborhoods to the north and the south and the west, all of those were things that we're thinking about in terms of our strategies. We know that we're not just doing the above ground updates, but also looking to really update and replace the utilities AS WELL. THIS IS REALLY IMPORTANT THAT WE'RE COORDINATING THAT STREET AND UTILITY IMPROVEMENTS NOT ONLY ON THE STREET BUT OF COURSE NEARBY AS WELL. JUST A REMINDER THIS IS A CITY LED DESTINATION MEDICAL CENTER SUPPORTED PUBLIC INFRASTRUCTURE PROJECT. IT'S PART OF A $38 MILLION INVESTMENT TO UPGRADE INFRASTRUCTURE AND STREET SCAPES IN DOWNTOWN ROCHESTER. So now to the 30% design update. We wanted to share a little bit about where we're at in that process. So just again, I think you saw the slide earlier, but this is the segment that we're talking about along 6th Avenue West or along the corridor. So some of the, I think, foundational pieces for this project is both about improving user experience and safer streets. That's foundational to the work that we're doing. It's about improving the comfort, the improved intersection crossings, which you'll see, and this idea of an all-ages and all-abilities bike corridor that will allow for people to walk, bike, and scooter and have their own spaces. Traffic calming, again, a major feature of this, and a more attractive greenway incorporating landscape and vegetated areas throughout the corridor. I've mentioned some of these already. The raised and shortened intersection crossings are going to be featured in different areas. You'll see that in our concept as we move through this. The two-way protected bikeway, wider sidewalks, and more shade and greenery around here. And as Steve mentioned, lots of different seating options and other amenities along the corridor. So just to bring it back to what we heard, and Steve mentioned this earlier, that really was based on what we heard through a lot of the engagement process that we did with a lot of public and stakeholders. So these are a series of exhibits that kind of zoom into a couple of key areas. So sixth is running north-south on the graphic, and you see Third Street Northwest and Second Street Northwest. But just a couple things we want to call out on these graphics. A new traffic signal and turn lanes are planned at all four legs of the 2nd Street Northwest and 6th Avenue intersection. Consistent with the adopted active transportation plan, a new shared use path is planned along the south side of 2nd Street Northwest. You can see that there. And raised north-south bike and pedestrian crossings will be provided at 2nd Street Northwest intersection. And here we're looking at the two more areas.

Can you hold for a minute? Council Member Miller.

Sorry, just before you move on to this slide, the previous one, I'm sorry, you were back on the one I was.

Yeah.

On 2nd Street Northwest, particularly for those east-west legs, What in the traffic study or your work is driving the need for a left turn lane there? I mean, that's currently a two lane street with relatively low traffic as I've understood it and used it.

As it operates today, I think there's some additional things.

I'll start, Council Member Miller, and maybe City Engineer Dombrowski could add to that. So first thing we looked at is really why signalization, why roundabout? The Bull, Ford, and Mound traffic study is the adopted traffic study for this corridor. When that was approved, that required intersection improvements. In terms of understanding impaired mobility, what we really heard from the community is that they feel more comfortable with a push button and a pedestrian crossing phase. So instead of a compact roundabout, which we seriously considered, we defaulted to really what people were asking for, which was the signalized intersection. In terms of the left turn slots, really what's driving that is the traffic projections for the 2045 counts. However, we're between 30% and 60%, and really what we're doing, while it added additional crossing distance, we are, as a design team, iterating through, and we don't have a final answer, are we gonna, other safety measures that would improve comfort and safety, leading pedestrian intervals, longer interval, different phasing to allow, when there's a left turn, crossings, so people basically cross during a red light, so they're not crossing a green ball. And we're looking at, and again, the north-south crossing will be raised, again, adding a traffic calming measure.

I have another question, but I'll wait.

Council Member Palmer.

Well, I was going to defer to Mr. Dombrowski.

Oh, I thought you were going to hold on your questions.

I have another question, but it looked like Mr. Dombrowski had something to add.

Oh, I'm sorry. Okay. You're going to hold your question. Your next question, Mr. Dombrowski, you are going to give some insight.

I was just going to reiterate what Steve said and not prolong the conversation. The turn lane, we would see queues that would back up more than one block. The beauty of the left turn lane is that, as Steve noted, we can protect the left turn so it's not in conflict with pedestrians that are crossing. They get the red arrow, pedestrians get the walk symbol. There's no conflicts with turning vehicles. It's going to work much better, as well as we don't have to come back in the future to reconstruct the roadway and impact the neighborhood, which we're trying to do with this project. Get it completed now so we're not back for another 50 plus years.

my other question is in general as this plan advances from current state to final design how what is the engagement strategy going forward because i i hear you talking about what you're iterating on of signal intervals those kind of things and those seem like good opportunities for the public to also continue to weigh in and work I WAS AT A KUTZKE PARK MEETING LAST NIGHT WHERE THIS PROJECT CAME UP AND THERE WAS AN OFFER TO ADD THAT TO THEIR OCTOBER AGENDA. I'M JUST CURIOUS ABOUT GENERAL PUBLIC OPEN HOUSES AND HOW YOU THINK ABOUT THAT.

I THINK AFTER WE GET MORE DETAILED DESIGN DECISIONS end of our middle time period of October, probably just return to the public with more of an informed strategy, letting them know we are listening and how we are including their comments and desires into the design. I think we've heard a consistent theme of what people want, and I feel like we are responding and reacting to those. So I don't think we need to open up a new round of comment sessions to ask people what we want. They've been very clear and we're working hard to incorporate what they want.

Okay. and a minor detail on this why does the path split into two sections with trees between on the west side on the second street northwest

A recent decision we made about the last two months is that Second Street, which is in the active transportation plan, on the bike network, we decided to include on the south side a multi-use path. This graphic is a little bit older, so we haven't fully iterated, but essentially within our work zone, we will be establishing a wider multi-use path to accommodate future bike traffic uh as the adopted active transportation plan coast floor calls for east to west on second street northwest and is there any buffering between that path as shown here and i mean it looks like it's at the hood of the vehicle buffering buffering of trees landscaping it looks like I would say this graphic, sorry, to the right or the east of the graphic is probably more what the final design will look like. Um, second street, I'm not, frankly, I'm not, it's just an iteration of a concept. Uh, but really it's going to be the shared use, uh, path cross section. It looks like on the right side, which is buffered in behind the curb.

Oh, I see. So that idea that the shared use path is just bumping against the hoods of cars, not likely, not likely.

Correct. We do have to work around some existing street trees. So again, we're, these are the details that we're still sorting out over the next 30 to 45 days.

Okay, we have Council Member Palmer and I do want to allow Ms. Zorger to finish her presentation. So Council Member, are your question specific to this slide?

It is.

Okay, go ahead.

I got a couple questions. Is this slide up to date? Because I'm looking at two parking lots. What are those two parking lots south of 2nd Street Northwest going to be? Are they gonna stay as lots?

Those are currently may own parking lots. I'd defer to Ms. Woodward to maybe talk about the long range campus development plan.

I think we get a clearer view on those parking lots on the next slide, is that correct?

Okay, so then we don't want to answer that question. So the next question I have is north of Second Street, the east side there, isn't that all just down to a parking lot right now?

Correct, it's a gravel construction yard where Knutson Construction operates out of, and in general terms, they have a lease through approximately 2030 or approval to use that space to facilitate the bull forward unbound construction work.

And if I remember correctly, on Sixth Avenue here, we're not gonna have access to this till 2030, isn't that correct?

Access to the road corridor for construction?

Correct, we have cranes for safety, we have cranes being set up at the Osmond Building.

Cranes are set up. We will have access to certain portions. We're planning, matter of fact, there's a meeting coming up two Fridays to work with the Mayo team on what access we will have. They do have some ongoing UPUI work between West Center and Second Street Northwest. So generally, our plan is near West Center. We will be under construction in March. with a goal of being done and having that intersection open to the public by August of 27, which will allow traffic from the St. John's easterly area to come through that intersection and head south to Second Street to exit the neighborhood. Further to the north, we have not worked through the full iteration of work that needs to be done underground by the Mayo UPUI project and then the city coming back in after they're done to do the finished surface level improvements including street pavement, traffic signals and landscaping.

And then I can assume on the streets and the avenues that you will have no on-street parking?

On the north to south route, we are currently not proposing any on-street parking. The side streets will maintain curbside parking.

So on 2nd Street, when I'm looking at this, I don't see where parking is. Is there parking on that? It would be mid-block, just closest to the edge of the... And we're talking, my last question is, your engagement really and truly has only been 63 people?

We have offered a lot of opportunities and tried to meet people where they're at. I think part of it is from Second Street South, it's really an industrial Mayo adjacent owned property. So while we've talked to the Mayo team, there's not a lot of residential people. We've done mailers, we've done different things, door hangers, different things to get people's attention. We're just, as much as we try, we're not, people are not coming for whatever reason they choose not to come, but we feel like we've, especially the first round, we did, I think, over 20 plus engagements, trying to get the word out, it's just people aren't responding for whatever reason.

20 engagements, that's two people, three people each engagement?

No, I'm just saying it at different times, so maybe we can bring back the slide. Thank you. So, like, our open houses at... At the coffee shop at Sixth Avenue, we probably averaged 20 to 30 people there coming and going. So had fair amount of attendance at the in-person open house. Virtual open house, five to eight people. Okay.

Continue.

All right, we'll march down to one more graphic like this, showing you First Street Northwest to Center Street West. A new traffic signal and turn lane are planned on all four legs of the West Center and Sixth Avenue intersection. And at both traffic signals, as Steve has mentioned before, we're still in the process of selecting additional bike and pedestrian safety measures. Those features may include As Steve mentioned, a lengthened leading pedestrian interval bike or pedestrian signal detection and considering a rest in red signal phase starting after the peak hour in the evening.

So can you go back? I have a question on this one here. So with the future Granger building, which is the logistics center, and there's a linear park to the west of that building. Now, I noticed on your first street northwest, you have pedestrian line, tree-lined pedestrian routes on 2nd. Is there any plans to bring the pedestrian route to that linear park that is on the west of the Granger Building?

You're saying on First?

Well, it would be between First and Center Street.

Sure, so essentially to the north of the Granger Building. That work will be done under other city, Mayo city owner contract agreements, which I don't have direct involvement in.

I can answer that question. Go ahead. First Street Northwest will include improvements on the north side closest to that surface parking lot that Mayo will be doing as part of their Granger building. And part of our site development plan agreement is that they improve that pedestrian experience along that entire block.

So that will be the connection to then the linear park to the west. That is correct. Thank you. Continue.

Great. The last graphic here of this type of graphic around what's happening on the street is from First Street Southwest to Second Street Southwest, a dedicated turn lane at Sixth Avenue West and Second Street Southwest. And then, as you know, future bus rapid transit, the link route and station on Second Street Southwest. So that's just give you, again, these are older graphics. So we're gonna page through to some newer graphics to show how that design has advanced in 30% design. But just to see this again in section, sometimes easier also to read kind of spatial allocation. You can see generous sidewalks, nice boulevards, the travel lanes that we're talking about, the two-way bikeway on the east side, furnishing zones, again, the sidewalk. Some of this, again, the dimensions vary depending on the kind of the need along the corridor. but generally this is what we're setting up. This is an example where with turn lanes, you can see some shift in the size of the furnishing zones and the boulevard areas. One thing we also want to mention in this work is the intent is really to underground the power that would make for a really beautiful corridor or linear space, but that will still require some stub service poles in some locations. Just calling out what that might look like along this area as well. So now to the urban design strategy and experience. I want to shift to really what that public realm is going to feel like. So our real design inspiration was this idea of movement and health. I think that feels particularly appropriate for Rochester. And movement is about making it easier and more comfortable for people to get around. Health is about the physical, social, and emotional environment, embedding things like shade and vegetation and comfort to support health of humans and our environment. into the design strategy. So this is a graphic really focusing on First Street and Sixth Avenue West. And this is how the design is advanced in this 30% design. It begins to show Sixth Avenue is more than just a transportation corridor, but as a continuous linear public space. Bikeway again is of course a major organizing element, but it's framed by landscaped areas, comfortable sidewalks, and places to pause and gather like you see some of these elements, the custom swings, the seating, and the pergola structure on the left here as well. There is this element, a 20-foot setback along this surface parking lot. that may be an opportunity. There's some discussion about expanding the public realm in this location, kind of playing off of that linear space on the other side of the Granger building could be another area where we do something like that, a nicer, generous public realm. So just to orient you or show you that in a different location, again, these are a series of different graphics that show same space, but just a little bit more detail here or different vantage points. So you're looking toward First Street Northwest and along Sixth Avenue West, you can see the generous landscaped areas, some of the custom seatings that we're talking about. the sidewalk and improved public realm, the bikeway as well. Actually, I'm going to page back really quickly. One thing I want to mention here is at the intersection, a couple of details that I forgot to mention. The ramped condition that we've talked about before, this really creates a more comfortable crossing experience for people walking and biking. The bikeway in this instance is delineated with different color. We'll talk a little bit more about that. But you see that the pedestrian really has kind of a priority here. The pedestrian pavement features actually kind of interrupt the bikeway so that you know to people who are biking through here notice kind of slow down and really pay attention to people walking through this area. Another key feature. As we jump down into kind of more of a perspective along the ground, this is how the custom bench swings might look. We're working again to think about how the whole furnishing palette is cohesive, so we'll talk a little bit more about that. You can see we have some strategies around a more canopy tree, but then maybe some more ornamental trees in kind of key locations along the corridor. as we look more toward the west parking ramp from the same area, how the vegetation might really be able to delineate, again, that space, how the transit station might operate further back in the corridor, but just kind of calling out some of those key features. And again, as you are on the bikeway, what that might feel like and look like. We're still working through the landscape vegetation strategy, so these are not the plants we're recommending, and we'll come back to you with some of that detail, but just to give you another sense of what that might feel like. Some of the seating and other pergola structures, we thought, again, that idea of movement is really kind of coming through through the swings, people moving and walking, the idea of dappled shade and light as people were to bike through here were some of the pieces that we were thinking about. And to move on to kind of the landscape palette, the furnishing palette, that was the overall family of materials and furnishings we're recommending is that it's cohesive and distinctive, but also durable and maintainable. The second piece is really important. We're looking carefully at materials and details that will really hold up and hold the test of time. The palette includes seating, receptacles, bike amenities, hardscape, lighting, and special features. while elements like public art and landscape and the planting plans continue to develop. So I'm gonna page through the different elements. So from a seeding perspective, we're intentionally incorporating a few different options. As Steve mentioned, we heard the importance of that. We're looking for systems that are durable and replaceable, relatively straightforward to maintain. And the proposed seeding family includes modular planter-backed and traditional bench options. also with backs and armrests are available on all of these features. The receptacles and amenities, so trash and recycling receptacles, we wanted these to sort of recede into the background, but still have the same material feel to some of the benches and the seating elements. This is a receptacle that is very easily maintainable through the top or the side open lid. We talked with some of the operations and maintenance folks who said these work really well. Some other opportunities to think about, again, talking about that movement along the corridor. A bike counter can be a really fun feature that shows how many people are riding or scooting along that corridor. There could be other amenities that we're incorporating, such as charging stations along here. Bike racks, working with a furnishing that you actually have in some different places within Rochester, this loop bike rack. These would be mostly located at transit shelters. Again, the strategy is such that we're We want them to kind of recede into the background, but still be opportunities for people to use as they need. Things like bike foot support rails. These might happen at busy intersections where there might be more bike queuing. Fill stations, again, water as that is needed or desired along the corridor. We have places for this, but at 30%, we don't have those particularly located at this point in time. The hardscape strategy is really an important part of this again when we think about all ages and abilities people with different type of mobility and and ability That's really important. And I think we are trying to reinforce that pedestrian is priority here So that's why the you can see the sidewalk as it crosses over the bikeway You maintain the color of the sidewalk so people on bikes know to slow down and that bike that pedestrians have priority we can also reinforce that through signage and marking along the corridor. We don't have that on this exhibit particularly. The bike path, the idea here would be the color of it is an integral color concrete where we would have, and then in some instances there's an exposed aggregate. I'm getting really into the details here, but I think what's helpful is that they help reinforce to slow down as you come into these areas where you expect pedestrians. So there's some of those cues that we're bringing into here that we've designed in other communities has worked really well. Also, even just the scoring pattern of your sidewalk can really reinforce to expect different behaviors in different areas. So those are pieces that we're planning on continuing to advance. When it comes to lighting, we're looking at some components that actually work with your city standard already. You have the model Viper size one as your street and pedestrian lighting. We will probably continue to work with that. There's some thoughts around bollards and where they might be sited and if they work with the current planned lighting fixture as well. Accent lighting, we would use this with a very light touch, but it would be at key intersections or key locations where we're encouraging people to kind of stay and linger. Some other special features that we're talking about, vine screens or vine features that bring shade to the corridor. Again, we've talked about these benches, the custom bench ideas, custom furnishings. Right now, public art, I think, is something that everyone has talked about incorporating into the corridor. We're looking for opportunities for that. We're not necessarily going to specify the art at this point in time. That might be something that would be really fun to encourage local community artists to get involved. So those are some features along the corridor. And I'm going to hand it back over to Steve.

So in terms of project budget, so essentially we have two sources of funding. Destination Medical Center, based on the colored blocks map I had shown you earlier, has provided $11 million to go towards this project budget. Also we've done an initial vetting of the overlapping new PUI prior agreement costs that would be the responsibility without this project of the Mayo Clinic to put back in place such as the street surface as they're digging it up for underground utilities. Our initial estimate has a range of funding coming back to this project since we'll be building the surface improvements to four to five million dollars which gives us a total project budget of 15 to 16 million, and when we completed our 30% design estimate, which is a very high level estimate, we are on budget with this project. So what's next? As I mentioned earlier, we need, our plan is to be out to bid and under construction by March 15th, 2027, at least on the southern half of the corridor. So we are moving ahead at full pace to complete the design through the end of this calendar year. perhaps finishing at the beginning of January, but being done in January of 27. And then we're probably looking at because of the other projects and also a lot of times been spent with many city staff people trying to figure out we need to provide reasonable access for the neighborhood, for people traveling in and out of downtown, for visitors to the clinic and employees, and also accommodating vehicle truck traffic that needs to support construction logistics and construction. So we will probably be phasing a portion of this work out into 2028 as a lag to make sure that some streets remain open. We're looking at both north-souths, Quarters, at least a primary corridor remains open, and also an east-west corridor, so we're looking at it from different layers. And with that, we're happy to take any questions you might have.

Council Member Fredericks.

Yeah, thank you for your presentation. Thorough, thorough, you're very thorough. So, all I wanna just, say is make sure as we're going through this I'll use one of my favorite presidents here words glide path let's make sure we talk to the people that have to maintain this and keep it up because you know I'm seeing a lot of maintenance on this thing here and I just want to make sure that the people that are going to be doing that have some input on things that can possibly make their jobs a little more efficient yes and also the finishes on our stuff I look at some of the finishes on things we use in the in the city center over here the benches for say and some other things that we have done down there and It just doesn't look like maybe questions were being asked if people had actually maintained take care of install that those things because I think some advice could have been taken from them Yeah, I would just add we've already had several in-depth conversations with our parks department They asked me to remind

folks that through this process we will be working towards a low maintenance approach. Also, we have learned some things, I think, from different furnishings that have worked and haven't. For instance, the street lighting, which is in place on, uh... broadway in some areas uh... very low-cost uh... sam basina traffic engineer pointed out how cheap it is to replace the light and how easy and simple it is so that's why we've adopted that fixture for this quarter so we are thinking through that will continue to iterate on that and one last thing probably not not a lot can be due to mitigate this i've seen a lot of our beautiful spaces that we've put a lot of money in to be

defaced and used in a manner it wasn't intended for. I just want to be cognizant of a lot of those things, too, because I don't want to see things getting destroyed after we put millions of dollars into things.

Agreed. Skateboarders are known to grind on certain things, so there's certain ways to design that. Also, you know, Sharpie, there's certain materials you can get Sharpie off of and other materials you need to replace because you can't get it out. So, we'll be thinking through that as we reach final design. Wish we didn't have to, but...

Council Member Wall.

Thank you. Because this is a seven block corridor, are we thinking of this more as a destination as opposed to a transportation corridor?

Councilmember Wall, I'd say we're halfway between the two. So I think it'll be more of an elevated experience, but not something equivalent to Discovery Walk by any means. So certainly we have a lot of photos as examples of furniture. I don't think ultimately you'll see the density that was kind of shown in the photos. But we do want a nice corridor. Our goal is to think about, as Councilmember Palmer touched on, what are these blocks gonna look like in 20 years and will they be parking lots? And they're probably gonna be mid to high rise buildings, whether they're residential or commercial, we don't know that, but there'll probably be more people on this corridor. And with that, we wanna have a corridor that people wanna be there, whether they're coming out of a hotel or an office building or perhaps their own residence. So we're designing with that in mind over the long term. So we definitely want a place that's comfortable and nice that people enjoy their experience while they're there.

And I think I said something like this some months ago when we had a similar conversation. It seems more like a destination to me, and so it would seem like coffee shops and other boutiques would really be a draw for this, since it doesn't exactly empty into anything on Civic Center Drive. Obviously, it goes down to the Mayo buildings. I can see people coming here and just walking. We do Discovery Walk. Kathy and I just took a bus downtown a couple of weeks ago and walked Second Street North all the way out to Highway 52. And we really enjoyed seeing the different homes and the buildings and felt entirely safe all the way on Second Street North. and then came back on Second Street Southwest, which was also fun. I mean, there was a detour. We helped a lady find Anderson wheelchair and walked through the corridors, but it was well marked, and I appreciated that. It was not a hard, it was a longer walk, but very nice. So I see this as a good walking, but more as a destination.

Yeah, and I think we've also, our design team consulting experts have reminded us, there needs to be a transition from the taller Mayo, more office buildings to the neighborhood, and this greening up of this corridor we feel is helping with that transition visually between stark downtown office buildings and the Kutzke neighborhood that really starts at Seventh Avenue just a block away.

Thank you, Councilmember. I'm sure you had some detours to discovery on that tour. We did, and I actually enjoyed it. Good. Councilmember Miller.

Yeah, I have a question. Building off of Councilmember Wall, where do people go from this? And I think of the businesses that are quite vibrant just north of Civic Center Drive. Mm-hmm. In the project scope and early slide, you show a connectivity up to and even past that. And in the packet, there was a view of those Fort Street Northwest and Civic Center Drive, which is not in this presentation. Can you talk about like what you're thinking about for Civic Center Drive's intersection and even interim improvements, whether that's refuge areas or how do we make that safer so that it feels like even though we're not rebuilding Civic Center Drive yet, that we are giving people a connectivity to those Pops Art theaters, Sato Theater, Garden Party Books, all those businesses that are thriving and a really viable destination.

Sure, in fact we had a design conversation about that connection this week with the other members of the engineering team. So one of the things we noticed and the traffic looked in the forecast, when you're traveling westbound on Civic Center, if you want to take a right and head north, the future year count is I think five to eight vehicles. So there's very, during the peak hour. So we are going to actually remove the west, we are proposing to remove the westbound right turn lane because essentially it's not doing anything. That will close the crossing distance. We are making a minimum of improvements in terms of moving curb. When you move curb, you need to move the storm sewer. The price goes up. And really, there's a planned major project on Civic Center that hasn't started yet. That'll be the time when it really gets better. But we are trying to make more dedicated crossings on the east side of the road so you can get across Civic Center. Okay. Cars on Civic Center can expect you to be there as maybe a bicyclist or someone on a scooter or walking. And then also I do think there's an opportunity perhaps for a quick build project in the upcoming years just to get people across the tracks. And we've talked about it. And again, we've heard people from Lowertown say we've got some nice shops, like people to come up here and visit them. I think this will kind of extend the connection opportunity to those shops and people will see it when it's built.

Okay. another question uh when we received an update on the linear park next to the granger building i asked in that meeting uh uh miss finnaman killinger if the materials that were recovered from lourdes park would be available to other public realm projects has there been any uh communication or is there any consideration of using some of those materials in the adjacent spaces to to the granger building that were recovered from that building

We have not talked about using them on this corridor, but I'll ask Cindy to come up and speak to you just about where they may fit as a historic component building material in our design scheme.

Yeah, I think I recall there was some stone And actually, what you don't see in some of the graphics is there's also a stormwater strategy that we're thinking about for managing stormwater, and there might be some opportunities for flow-in, flow-out planters. And in that case, I think that's a really nice way to reveal some of those materials and embed that in there. So I think that's a great strategy, and we'd love to do that.

Okay, wonderful. A comment on the implements. Just thinking about like the bus stops too, where places where people might naturally be waiting, I would hope that some of that feature of a swing or something that's more interesting than just a seat might be incorporated as that destination transitional point. And I would hope the swings work. I mean, the swings look very fun on Discovery Walk and then you sit on them and they're not very fun because they're anchored to the ground.

Yeah, I know what you're talking about. We will make sure they work. And we're designing, kind of detailing that right now. And I think there could be some opportunity to think about how they are located at the transit shelters. The intent right now is that they're really close to them, but not there because of the boarding and alighting and some of the ADA requirements. But there may be some strategies, kind of massage that a little bit. Okay. Fun idea.

And then I would just want to make sure the water fountains are maintained and working because I know that there are many times that I encounter a public water fountain and it looks great, it might be a hot day, and then it's not producing water.

Yeah, we will continue to work with our parks department and make sure they're easily maintainable and in the right spot. We do hear people asking for them periodically, so it's not just an idea, it's, again, responding to what people bring up, that they'd like that opportunity as they're traveling to fill up a water jug on a hot day.

I see the power lines are shown as undergrounded in this design. Is that final?

Not final. At a high level, working with our partners at RPU, they currently are within budget. Really, our approach was understanding the complications of the service connections going to the houses. We just stayed away from that. We will leave a telephone pole on the edge of the right-of-way. But north of Second Street Northwest, there are overhead power lines. We are looking at undergrounding those. Really, what that lets us do is create a mature tree canopy with a narrower road that will grow over time and eventually touch over the road. And that really promotes traffic calming. A scientific term is visual or optical narrowing. It really just sets the tone to people. When I'm on this corridor, should I be doing 45 or should I, does it feel more neighborly? Maybe I should be doing 25-ish. And we're really trying to create that sense of calmness that then promotes people to be outside of cars and enjoy being there.

I would love to see how, I know this out of scope, love to see how we continue that concept into the neighborhood on 7th. I know that's been in discussion. I know that that would be a really meaningful improvement. Final two comments. The pallet, love to see some color that doesn't depend on flowers blooming in a brief period of the year. Maybe that's their art. And then I would love to see how we build in some opportunity, even if it's not events for open houses, that people can comment, share feedback asynchronously on the design, especially as we talk about features that people will actually be using. And that can extend beyond the neighborhood transit riders, male employees. I think there's a broader scope of the population that would like to share some feedback on this.

I agree. I've heard Mr. Woodward say many times during site development review, what does it look in all four seasons? We are holding ourselves to that own standard. And again, just the open house, maybe if I can just flip back. So more than 20 people at a single event, if I get back to the original slide for clarification. So I'm not sure the exact.

Keep it brief, Mr. Sampson-Brown. We are...

Sure. Thank you, Mayor. So anyways, I just want to point out, we've had more than 20 people attend. Mr. Niemeyer added them up. He thought it was more than 63 in person. So we've definitely connected with people just in smaller groups rather than one large setting.

Thank you. Council Member Keene.

Yeah, these are going back to more practical project questions here. On page four, you've got your project area. I just want to, the scope is Second Street between Civic Center to Second Street. Can you talk about what we looked at going south of Second Street and why that's out of scope?

Sure. In terms of where we started with the conversation, reconnecting the downtown bike lanes due to the 3rd and 4th Street vacate, we looked at the east-west connection points on the south side of town was 4th Street Southwest. So that's where we originally started. We heard people that... We're willing to navigate the hill on the west side of town and the grades on the hill. They wanted it to go past Second Street. So that's where we started under this project and what was funded either through a reimbursement from the Bull, Ford and Mountain Project or dedicated funding that was approved through the DMC process. We did not get funding for the two blocks south of Second Street. So those have been put on pause till future funding becomes available to make that connection.

But I am separating. It's not just a bike discussion. It's the project scope was stopped at 2nd Street. And that wasn't just a bike replacement path. It's out of scope. Is that a DMC said that this is what we'll fund? Who makes the call there?

There was original, as part of the 38 million, there was literally colored blocks that received funding at different scales, and those blocks did not receive funding.

Okay, all right. The other question, if I look at that same map and I see Civic Center Drive, I'm also looking at, this is the, expected way for arrivals at Mayo and then I believe they'll go not on 6th Street but on 4th or not on 6th Avenue but 4th Avenue and then go towards the parking garage. Is that a separate thing that we're going to be looking at that we've got to redo that or is that considered the infrastructure there will support what's going to happen in 2030 and beyond?

That is a separate thing it did receive those blocks 3rd and 4th Avenue did receive funding out of that 38 million dollar bundle and Assistant City Engineer Amy Kraski is leading that design.

It sounds like mr. Dombrowski has a comment on this as well No, I got my these right on track.

Okay, those corridors will also be addressed. Okay part of this.

That's what I'm good and then Just when I'm looking at the same map, I've got the green line that's the project, and you say the adjacent work. When you did the dollar amounts, are those part of the dollar amount, or does that mean adjacent is not funded through the project?

Adjacent is within the total project funding. So maybe a better example is at West Center intersection, which will be signalized. Through the Mayo traffic study requirements, they need to fund the traffic signal installation. The turn lanes, the left turn lot, extend about two-thirds of the way east to west down each block. So it's a little bit different answer for each block. First Street, Northwest, on the right hand side of the road or the east side, 2nd Street, 3rd Street, those did receive DMC funding out of that $38 million pot.

All right, and if I can look at those purple lines, that's when you're saying, when I'm looking at the dollar amounts, those are scoped into it.

I would just add, it was part of the quarter layout plan that was not part, didn't include those slides in the presentation, but attached to this item. We are looking at going through the 7th Avenue intersection on West Center. We went three quarters of the way there, and we thought with the new linear park, the hospitality houses, more crossings north to south, and that was always a busy intersection from people going to work.

I'm just looking at the map, and so I know what I'm doing. This is a little tighter kind of question, but we have a policy where when we do street work, we do assessments. In this case, it appears we're not doing assessments. What is the logic or what's the public statement of we're not doing it because?

I will defer depth-wise policy to City Engineer Dombrouski or Public Works Director Niemeyer.

Who wants to take that one? I can take that one.

Go ahead, Mr. Dombrouski. We have not traditionally assessed the neighboring properties on the DMC projects downtown. Okay. Those funds essentially replace the need for

No, I think that's the thing I'm looking for. If it was city funding doing this, we would be doing assessments, but since it's a different funding mechanism, that helps me. Then I want some level of consistency. My last comment's a little different, but boy, when I look at the streets that's there right now between the parking lots, but even the residential homes, and then I see this, like the benches and things like that, I really struggle with it being kind of like over- engineered or over made for what a 6th Avenue is going to be. But I'm not going to like sit here and fight this. I'm going to kind of say like, no, this is being done with this sort of like longer term view. And I know that there is part of DMC that says we're not trying to make a normal street. We're trying to make something better. It's not, it's already come up that it's not Discovery Walk, but these things that have been built on there, I'm looking at them sometimes and going like, Really? Like you say, there's no coffee shop very close by. There's none, like, projected to be in those areas. There's nothing we're doing to make it that way. I'm not sure what the reasons are to stop there, except maybe our benches. And I'm trying to get my head around it, but I'm making the public comment, but I'm not going to, you know, kind of deal with the project and say, like, no, it's over-engineered. I can't support this. But I am at some point looking for more clarity or more insight into that. I'LL JUST LEAVE IT AT THAT.

WE HAVE COUNCIL MEMBER PALMER, WE HAVE COUNCIL MEMBER MILLER, AND I DO WANT TO SAY SOMETHING. SO GO AHEAD, COUNCIL MEMBER.

I'll go off kind of what Mr. Keene is saying, but on North Broadway, north of 14th Street, we do have benches and chairs, and I've got comments that people think it's goofy, but the other side of that is it does add some atmosphere to it, and it does make you slow down a little bit. On 6th Avenue, I'm excited about being able to walk and run on those sidewalks. It's a really tough neighborhood to walk and run on. I'm just gonna beat you up again on this 63 people you had engaged. I know you can provide me the Numbers that showed up and also the cost of that engagement. That would be great.

Sure Councilmember Miller just to follow up on mr. Keene as well does the zoning support if somebody said hey, this is an opportunity now They're gonna be people walking and biking with the zoning support someone opening a coffee shop.

I

I will defer to Ms. Woodward to answer that.

Yes, it would support it.

OK, so we have a chicken and the egg. We're building so the vibrancy and economic development can come.

That is a part of it. And I think just to note, there's also kind of an overall streetscape and public realm plan for the rest of that $38 million that is also going to be kind of building off of this. And that's where you get to 3rd and 4th Avenue and some of those other areas as well. So this isn't in isolation.

Go ahead.

Thank you, Council President. I also want to just quickly clarify that we've engaged a lot more than 63 people. That would be the number of people that showed up to an event that was labeled as project engagement or for the project. We've attended numerous neighborhood meetings, also had a whole bunch of engagement related to reconnecting bike lanes. There's been a lot of opportunity to engage on this throughout the design effort so far. So I want to make sure that got into the narrative.

Thank you, Mr. Niemeyer. I'll just say, and I'm going to, one, the Spy House is on the corridor, isn't it? There is a coffee shop.

Okay.

So there is one. And there could be more. I do, and I want to support a couple ideas that Council Member Miller brought up. One is the use of those artifacts and AND THE CONNECTIVITY, AS I MENTIONED, I REALLY ENCOURAGE YOU TO WORK WITH MAYO CLINIC ON THAT CONNECTIVITY TO THE LINEAR PARK ON THE WEST SIDE OF THE GRANGER BUILDING. CONNECTION FOR PEDESTRIANS AND THOSE ARTIFACTS WOULD BE GREAT IN LEADING TO THAT. I'M NOT A DESIGNER. BUT TAKE THAT INTO ACCOUNT. AND THEN ALSO, YOU KNOW, WE DO HAVE WINTER NINE MONTHS OF THE YEAR, SO COLOR. Well, sometimes. Getting close. If you interrupt me, we'll get even closer. So we have a lot of winter and so color along the corridor would be valued as well. So with that, is there a motion on this item? Go ahead, council member.

Approving the geometric layout and authorizing advancement of design for J8908, remaining, there's a dash there, reimagining Sixth Avenue West.

Motion made by Councilmember Fredericks. Seconded by Councilmember Keene. Any further discussion? Seeing none, all in favor say aye. Aye. Opposed say nay. Motion passes. Thank you. We have no council-initiated actions. We have no ordinance first readings or second readings or tabled items. Is there any other business? Seeing none, is there a motion to adjourn?

So moved.

Motion made by Council Member Palmer and seconded by Council Member Doering. All in favor say aye. Aye. Opposed say nay. We are adjourned.