Town Council - Regular Meeting

6 o'clock.

everybody we need to order at six o'clock for the board of the counter on the board of senate appeals we're ready we're good

It's a little out of practice.

It's been a while, right?

What's the announcement?

That is just the announcement regarding the recording of the meeting. From what I understand, we're supposed to announce it before each meeting. We do at our meetings. The president just announced that we're operating under that.

An Indiana code statement? Yeah.

Anything that's in this room has to follow those rules.

okay and that's the recording aspect yeah okay so i will announce that we are following the indiana code 36-1-3 and ordinance number 2026-2 do we have any conflict of interest do we have to say our name no or anything else if you have one if you don't then he'll just say no conflicts are announced okay no conflicts uh consideration of minutes from july 14 2025. i wanted to make a motion to accept the minutes as presented from the july 14th 2025 meeting i accept those

Motion to approve. Second. I'll go through all of them. We need to practice more. It's been a long time. It's been a few years, I think so. Yeah, yeah. Okay. We need to... So now...

we need to do the uh yeah since this is our first meeting of the year yes okay so we need to go through the administrative items election of officers do i have a motion to nominate anybody i would make a motion to have brendan kit continue as president

I nominate. Oh, I'm sorry.

I thought you already seconded.

Oh, I just made the .

Oh, OK. I second. OK. And I'll nominate Greg Morris as vice president.

I second that.

OK. Adoption of rules and procedures. Do I have a motion to adopt the rules and procedures?

Yeah, I would make a motion to adopt the rules and procedures as presented.

Now, there's been no changes. Same ones that you guys have always adopted. I second that.

Appointment of Secretary Heather Hagerman and Claudia Diaz-Goreno Motion to Appoint Such Motion to Appoint I'll second that motion And Appointment of Legal Counsel Hartberg and Halberstadt motion to appoint them motion to appoint Hartberg and Halberstadt I do have a question on the calendar is i noticed i just looked and i know they changed the one in huntington to 5 30. does six o'clock work for everybody still we would be happy as early as you want to go if that's where you're getting what you're getting because i know of course it was earlier was tougher Would you guys want to change that? Huntington changed to 530, and there's a couple others on here that are at 530. Would you guys want to? We can make it whatever we want. Sure.

I can make 530. I mean, I get off work at 5. I can make it.

It doesn't bother me at 530 or whatever. Okay. What do we need to...how do we need to... Just a motion and a second to change the meeting time to 530.

Okay.

Do I have a motion to change the Roanoke Board of Zoning and Appeals meeting time to 530? I'll make that motion.

I second.

so then i would just make another motion then subject to the new time and then still go ahead and approve the 2026 calendar okay so do we have a motion with the change of time to accept the 2026 calendar i will make a motion to accept the 2026 calendar with the change of the 5 30 p.m start time for roma i accepted that motion

Okay, now we can move down to new business. So, up for new business is docket RBZA 26-001, application followed by commercial signs LLC requesting a variance from development standards for a 60 square foot copy space area variance from the 30 square foot copy space area maxima on a freestanding sign. So is there somebody here representing this? Okay, can I have you, you want to come up or stand up, give us your name, where you live, and then you want to go into it?

Yeah, Aaron Keebler, 15407 Canyon Bay Run. Fort Wayne, Indiana, 46845. And we are just, you know, based on the standards now, it's 30 square feet. We've got to be so far set back with the easement and with the road visibility and the speed limit right there. We feel that the business would be better suited with a little bit larger sign than 30 square feet. The digital portion allowing us to advertise, promote, and also, you know, allow traffic to have visibility of the sign itself. We think the size is justified. I mean, the signs around the area are all, you know, the gas station and bank just across the street have about the same square footage, if not more.

I've got a question. In your application, you kind of define it as two different signs.

Can you explain what the signs are? Just like the bank, you've got a static sign that's on top of the digital, which states the name of the business. But that will be static, that's not an LED sign? Yeah, no, that's a, yeah. It is static.

That's what I assumed, but I wanted to clarify that. So that's this picture is static and that's the digital.

I do have another question. Your logo, or maybe this is

Is that a beaver? It is.

I love that.

It looks good. I like canal. I think that kind of follows the history of the community and yeah, I like that.

The beaver, it's okay. My wife's got a lot of cute ideas for it. It is cute, yeah. Hopefully Bucky's doesn't sue us.

Mommy says, when you go in and mommy is assigned with the same beaver.

Well, this particular beaver we have copyrights to we purchased it. And it's kind of a big thing yet be careful. So we did try to make sure that Bucky's wasn't going to be able to sue us. But this uh we bought it from like an art place that where they draw them up okay customized so yeah that's surprising i mean a beaver looks like a beaver that's the thing right so you can only do it so many different ways so is can i ask a question yeah if you're you just open a meeting to the public now and then yeah that's the same thing are we talking the same sign yes okay so um

I was under the understanding that it's going to be 90 feet.

Square feet, right? Yeah, 90 square feet, yes.

Okay, what's your name? Nancy, Y-U. Y, okay. But you said 60 square feet.

So I think it's in the wording. So the allowable 30, and this is to...

get an additional design they're allowed 30 square feet in coffee space but they like up to 90. am i to say that right yes yes that's correct so a 60 foot variance from what's required gotcha and local saloon is this is 170 yeah oh the mac side okay so that was what i saw this that's what i

Because I just drove down the main, well, I guess, if you have any other questions. Yeah, if you guys have anything else before we... Yeah, I mean, I'm okay.

That's why we're here, is to kind of, and I want to say, I love everything that you guys do here. I love that the car wash is here, but we are here in a place, too, going bigger than Locosilo. We don't mind that you're going bigger than what you all allow, but we think as big as Locust Loon is as big as, you know. But I don't know if we're going high. To me, I already see the two signs that are there. I understand that you want to add another sign. That's fine with me.

Have you seen a representation of the sign?

No. Can we do that? Yeah, absolutely. I do want to note that the other signs are bigger just because they are on a corner. They have more frontage that gave them, by rights then, a bigger sign, a bigger copy of it.

That's what they're talking about.

Okay. Which is why we didn't have to review it.

They have placements that, as Jake pointed out, it's, you know, according to the setbacks and all that.

So, um, like you don't, you can't tell where you're really meaning it's going to be at on the side of the, you know, on the road.

It's on the back.

It's on the back.

It's, well, it's a map, so. Okay, so this is the road here.

It's actually My interpretation is it's sitting back further from the people across the street, the first bedside. A lot further, yeah, because of the easement.

So do you want to show me where exactly?

Well, yeah, I mean the general area.

So this is the building, right? Yes. So where's this road?

This is the main road.

Yep, that's the main road. This is the main road, okay. And this is the sign?

That would be the proposed sign. This is the highway here.

This is the highway here, okay.

where if this was the same map and this was the bank, that sign would be here.

Okay. So it's...

It does sit back. Okay. And it's actually smaller than the bank sign. Right. They are... Yeah, I can see that. 92 square feet. 92.5 versus 90.

So the bank, because that's what I, that's what I was, when I saw the digital, that's why I was, I drove down on my way here, I wanted to see, because I knew that, and there's actually three that I saw. So, the, is the, is the business, is that your building on the, by the bank, by Biffa's bank?

I think that, I think they're from like out of state is what I was told. Like maybe Jersey or something. Maybe Ken knows, like owns that property.

We can look for it if you want us to.

Well, so that was the first one I noticed coming south.

It's digital and it has... You're talking about the one at the building that used to be Edward Jones? The male salon. Color box.

Yeah, it's the building you pull in to go to Biffus. It's on the left, Biffus is on your right.

Oh, that's on the other side of town.

That's my dad's sign, right? Oh, that's your dad's. Okay, I thought, I couldn't remember.

Okay, so that's your dad's. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Okay, so it's your dad's.

Yeah, okay. Yeah.

So, I mean, it's got a nice sign. It's got a digital display. I mean, it's hard to tell stuff that high up how big it is. um but that's why you know so you see that one it's on the city's town side yeah then you have um but okay is it digital it is okay yeah yeah we just did the ones right immediately around the vicinity of this one here well i i was just looking at what was digital yeah and and then the thing for your guys's concerns right yeah because i mean i get it and that's i mean being on the other side of the highway i don't have as much of an issue as stuff on the town side But it's nice to look to see what's already there. Because a lot of this stuff, we try to go off of what we've already done, try to keep things uniform, even what we've allowed. At least since I've been on the board, that's what I was always kind of told is we try to do to be reasonable. And it's not like it's a giant... billboard because I wasn't sure what exactly we were looking at.

Can I add something? Yeah, do it. I think one thing to keep in mind, this is probably one of the most important pieces to this, is that people will be going through at 50, 55, you know, if they're not following the speed limit, 50 mile an hour, and they need probably a bigger sign to make that last-minute decision to turn in or to not turn in. You know, when there's a lot of other signs competing for that, I think too small of a sign, people are going to probably miss it. Once you go through the light, there's only one building.

Yeah.

to car wash because there may not always be for now yeah i was gonna say i had a lot of development but by then they're gonna know what it is if you're not from here though the people who are from here will know it's the ones traveling through who maybe don't who might make the decision oh a car wash okay so i think if we were just counting on the town people we wouldn't even need a sign right but i don't know that car wash will make it without with just the town like i don't know that the population

I've had car work people tell me I'm crazy for building it there in Romano because of the population not being high enough. So, but, you know, it's just an investment we wanted to make in the town.

So, I guess I have a follow-up question, and Tommy, I can't ask it. Because I'm assuming, and it's not fair because you can look it up, that you have the property next to it, right? And so I'm assuming you're going to put some kind of other business in there? What plans do you have? And I know you don't have anything in the ground yet, but a second sign, right? Because I'm assuming it's going to be like a Belmont beverage type closet or something.

Maybe bring Taco Bell. I don't know.

I'm just saying, like, you're going to have something else there that you're going to need another sign. So have we thought about, when you do develop that, what that's going to look like so we're not

Well, without knowing what we're really going to build there yet, I just don't, I can't really, I mean, I guess you could assume another, I mean, it would probably have to have a sign of some sort. Right.

And it can be a little different too when you have multiple tenants, like you're a shopping type of center, you know, you're going to all be kind of sharing.

And then you've got road frontage on two sides for that piece. Okay. So that was one of my thoughts that as I know you're going to develop it, like how does that look for round two of,

this conversation right and the fact that it's close to the intersection and where sometimes you might be stopped i think it has a little bit easier time to even if you put signs just on the building itself because the building will sit so close to the room on that particular well i mean it has to sit where you see the square right i mean that's it's a pretty as she knows it's they went through a lot of moves to even make it as big as what it was right that's true that was my only question

Not that you have a crystal ball, but if you did already have the plans.

Probably won't be a grocery store.

My husband would like a hardware shop. I'm just putting the plug in.

So, you know, Kevin Biggs and myself, we have a project behind the saloon, and we did have a hardware shop slated for that, and we would like to get a grocery store. It's just trying to find somebody who wants to, once again, take that risk. I don't want to run a grocery store. I know nothing about a grocery store. I can sure build one. But I can't run it. Same with a hardware store, really. But I think there's more, maybe, interest in a hardware store than what there might be. Kevin has ties with that HWI, or is it HWI? I don't know if that's the same or whatever. So, but yeah, that's where I would see those going, just from a parking standpoint. This isn't gonna have a ton of parking available to it either.

So this is general business, right? Correct. I thought I was trying to, I know we have two different, so So the setback, did I miss that in here? I was just trying to, I didn't see how far back.

Five feet somewhere from all lines. But in this case, they got right away. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

From the back of the, oh, there you go.

Okay. And I think there's a power line there that we have to be ready. It makes it even go further back. It makes us tuck it back even further because there's a three-phase power right there. Which is another reason for the sign being a little bit bigger with all the power poles and everything. There's just a lot going on right there. And for you to be zooming down there 50 miles an hour,

you need something to draw your attention so this is it so this is the corner is that the south corner am i looking at that right now the other corner is where the entrance is yes okay so it'll be the first corner heading from the south to north okay it might just be south of the intersection of where second comes across

So it's going to be in front of more of the building, not the entrance. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I got you.

Probably if you look at this, you could, like, probably in that little grassy area would be, right?

Yeah.

Because that's right over the second street, which is what I just said. It should be right there. Okay.

So, Arco 7, I think.

So we're not worried about the height, right?

Nope. And the base kind of sits in a little bit of a dip right there.

So the grade, you know, was a flood of patients. really dropped salt right there, so the sign kind of sits in the lower area. So it may look like it's sticking way up there, but it's losing a lot of height just from the topographical.

But I'm just confirming like the height is within... Yeah, no issue with the height. Yeah, that's why I'm just making sure there's no... Just that coffee area. Okay, okay.

so whenever you feel like you've discussed as much as you need to discuss your next step would be doing the findings of fact and they're in that staff report if you want to read from that and then you can you're welcome to adopt my suggested findings or you can come up with findings of your own however you want to do that is totally up to you so so first federal it'll essentially be

very similar or a little smaller than the other side. Yeah, just slightly smaller. So is the digital, do you know if that's, I mean, I know we're talking four by 10 or five by 10. It's hard to tell. I didn't know if you guys knew how big their digital side was versus.

I would think it's at least a four by 10. okay that's i mean that's what i figured it's hard to tell right now how big yeah you get good at it when you're in the business and visually that one's gonna look bigger for you know anyway actually closer to the road i didn't think it was that bad personally i mean the size of it no um well if they were all

you know 30 feet or 60 or whatever smaller number i guess that'd be one thing but you know we've all i mean when were these signs approved or is there any i don't know we've got a year on this i don't think i didn't think to have her put the year on it i mean oh gosh

She makes around 2021 for the first time, but it was on a corner, see?

Actually, the first federal sign was put in October of 25. Yeah, you can get a little message. Yeah, because they just redid it. They just replaced the copier, not the whole sign. One of my employees used to work for Felderman, and they did it.

So he knew exactly when it went in.

But it was within, because it's a corner. So that's the whole thing, is just the...

That's the disadvantage they're at because they don't have another road frontage. They're not on a farm. So it's just the frontage. And it's based on the lot frontage. I see. I see. Yeah.

Why on earth does that matter?

I don't know. I'll be honest with you. You're going to have more people, I guess, coming from different directions. This has just kind of been passed down to us throughout the years.

In Allen County, it's the frontage that gets you the bigger signs. And they've got 345 feet of road frontage.

Yeah, right.

Where the banks only got a fourth of what the car was at.

They're on a quarter of those.

Right, yeah, right, right, yeah.

Now, some of the districts is based on the frontage of the building, but not in the GPs and food chains.

So, I mean, I guess my thinking is, There's only, I mean, there's no other ground to the north of you that's developable now, right? It's the corner south of you. Other than the lot that we're on right now. Right, right. So, I mean, to what you were bringing up, like for future, you have the corner before this property, or to the south of it, that you're not really going to have. I mean, because that's a good, good point is, you know, what kind of future could you see there? I mean, there's really only one other property there that could have signage in the future. Unless something drastic. Yeah, you never know being on that corridor. Well, unless something drastic.

Purchasing the house, the house that's a little bit further up.

Obviously, you have the lake. late ground oak that occurs right yeah at some point you're probably going to be tired of farming it right it will become you just never know well i mean it would be it would take a lot of effort to be able to develop that section so i don't i mean not that it can't happen right some bigger pockets i mean yeah develop that area yeah so who owns the shooting the police shooting thing that's still do they still do that back there

That's the city, isn't it? That one's the...

Right, because where we used to take our lawn clippings that we can no longer do. The police shooting range was back there.

I think that's all the town property.

You're talking about where they do the water treatment?

Yeah, where the water treatment and all that.

So right, we used to drive that dirt road back to take our lawn clippings and stuff. Yeah.

I don't know if that got halted because it's in the flood way. If they weren't allowed to do that.

I wasn't aware they were doing that so I honestly don't know. Do you own that part? Is that part of your land? The road?

No, the shooting, the police shooting area where we used to... I'm not really sure where you're talking but the land does go way back there but it kind of comes to like a pie shape Like when you say it's more of a pie shape.

So the fire department, they have that.

yeah maybe it's back i mean because when i'm dragging the car i'm not sure yeah i think all of this right here but his ends right right in here on this piece but you think it was more like that yeah It's kind of hard to...

It was like right in here, because you just came here. You just took that drive and went all the way back.

Yeah, yeah, and it was... I've been waiting, waiting, waiting for this. So I don't know if this is a... Yeah, I mean, it's a good spot, but I mean, then you have, that's a pretty big chunk for frontage, too. I think there was to, you know, something to go in there. And, I mean, me personally, I mean, that side of the highway is a lot of business anyway, so I don't... One other thing I would mention is that with the light that that sign... Have you ever gone out 2nd Street at night, that intersection at 2nd and 24th? It's pretty dark right there. And hopefully it'll be lit up a little bit more just with the car wash, but the sign would definitely help. like that intersection a little bit further too, just like the gas stations, you know, kind of like the first intersection.

Yeah, no, that's a good point.

Okay.

Do you guys have anything else? No, I think we... Okay, we'll go ahead and close the meeting to the public. And Kim, do you want to give us your...

I don't have a whole lot to add to this. I just think it's important to note that- You guys don't have to leave.

We're mad.

No, you guys, we just- No, no, no, no, I don't mean, we have to go.

Okay, okay. I was gonna say, I didn't hope you didn't take that the wrong way. Shut the door behind you. I'm teasing you.

We have fun. I really don't have much more to add than what I said. Just with the 50 mile per hour speed limit through there, people need that time to make that decision whether to pull in or not and know what it is quickly enough, especially with that intersection being there. But no, staff recommends approval of the request. And then as suggested findings, I did adopt the applicants, I believe, on most all of these. He did a pretty good job on his findings, so I adopted those as a suggestion.

Okay. So, we can, we can, so as a board for a variance, we can adopt it as exactly what they asked for, or we can add anything we feel that

we want to see so right you just can't go bigger than what he's asked for because that's what we advertise for so you can go smaller right yeah so you guys have any thoughts on anything besides what they're asking i think you know in light of the other signs being actually slightly larger um i yeah i'm not finding any issue with

Yeah, I mean, I drove through town because their comment was, right, I was like, oh, well, I never really thought about it. So I drove when I came through town. I'm like, well, there's already a precedent of other signs that are exactly what you're proposing. So I don't, for me, it was an easy, it's not an issue because how do you tell them no when we already have it? Several other signs, although the local saloon, I didn't remember that it was different until I paid attention.

No, I feel the same way. I mean, just because they're not on a corner, I mean, to me, they're out on 24. I mean, there's not a lot on that side of the road anyway. I mean, unless something blows up over there where we start getting a ton of You know what I mean? But being the first one there and it matches a lot of what's already going down through there, I don't have any problems with it as well.

I think probably just have you read the findings into the record just to have them on the record. And just state that you're adopting staff's suggested findings or the applicant's findings. And then just read them into the record.

So you want me to go through them? Yeah, if you would, just to have them in the record, yeah. Okay.

Okay. So, finding the facts.

The approval will not be injurious to the public health, safety, morals, and general welfare of the community because... Do you want me to read what you put on here? Yeah. Okay. Kim suggested, will not a portion of the applicant's findings which states approving the variance will enhance the ability of testers to safely identify the business, insurance in advance, reduce Reducing sudden braking or turning their list. The sign will not obstruct visibility, interfere with traffic control devices, or create uncertain conditions. Can we go through them all and just approve them all, or do we need to do each one?

You need to vote on each one.

Okay. Do we want to do... We have to have a motion to...

You could just do a voice vote on each finding, and then you'll do a motion and a second and a vote to approve or deny the request. If you have affirmative findings on all of them, then you would need to approve the request. If you have a negative finding, then you would have to deny the request.

Okay. So we can just do all in favor signify by saying aye for the woman. Aye. Any opposed? No. number two the use and value of the area adjacent to the property included in the variance will not be affected in a substantially adverse manner because kim suggested will not a portion of the applicant's findings which states the proposed variance will not adversely affect neighboring properties because the request is consistent with the surrounding commercial nature of the area The requested increase in sign-in area does not introduce any compatible use, excessive traffic, noise, or operational impacts to adjacent properties. All those in favor signify by saying aye. Aye. Any opposed? Okay, number three. The strict application of the terms of the zoning ordinance will result in impractical difficulties in the use of the property because Tim suggested will a portion of the applicant's finding which states the strict application of the current 30 square foot signage limitation would create a practical difficulty by preventing the business from maintaining an effective visibility and communication along the roadway corridor with a posted speed limit of 45 miles an hour Due to the speed of passing traffic, motorists have only a limited amount of time to identify the business, recognize available services, and safely react to the location of the entrance. The proposed sign is designated as a single integrated structure consisting of a 4x10 illuminated cabinet sign for permanent business identification and a 5x10 digital message center for operational messaging and customer communication. Reducing the size of the currently permitted size would significantly limit readability and diminish the effectiveness of both the identification and messaging components, making the site functionality inadequate for the conditions present at the site. The practical difficulty is further influenced by the scale of property and roadway environment. The property contains approximately 340 units rented along a major commercial corridor and the requested sign area is proportional to the site and surrounding roadway conditions. The request is not for multiple signs or an unusual sign type, but rather for a reasonable increase in the area necessary for the business to effectively utilize the property in a manner consistent with our commercial development standards. Okay. All those in favor signify by saying aye. Aye. Opposed? Okay. I have a motion to approve docket R-B-Z-A-26-001. I need the motion to approve. and i will second that motion i'll just see your voice vote on the motion second okay can i have a all those in favor signify the second aye aye aye opposed nothing else to discuss then we could make a motion to put in motion all right is that you guys have anything oh yeah

I have a question, and I feel like I asked last time, but it didn't make the note, so I'm asking officially. Okay. The school that we approved on the corner with the pool and the house down this corner, we approved the school to be... I haven't... I'm sorry.

So it was... That was a couple of years ago.

I can remember that. That's a while ago, right? Yes. And we made the exception for them to do it and see what the town felt after a year and we would review it. Okay. Unless I missed it, which is possible. I don't know if we ever reviewed their plan and now it brought my mind up when I was driving through town. Okay. They're doing major renovations. oh to the outside yes so i don't know if they are still doing a school if they sold it it was something we should follow up on but it was just a thought that okay we put that in place and i don't think that we ever and i was trying to remember did we put was it reviewed if there was issues like we did with the i'm gonna have to go back because i honestly don't remember i usually shy away from

automatic reviews just because it's hard to keep track of. But typically, if we do have it, I will put it on my calendar and have it pop up, but maybe we didn't. I might need to look up a minute to get back to you guys.

Yeah, that's what I was trying to remember. Because I thought we discussed that, but I couldn't remember with the Airbnb.

If there were no complaints, we were good to begin.

Yeah, so it might have been there were no complaints. Because I know we discussed that last year, or you brought it up. And I couldn't remember if maybe that's what it was. We just didn't have it.

I will definitely find out and get back to you guys probably tomorrow. Third street? Is that right? Third street? I don't know. I think so. It shouldn't be too hard to find in our day to day, so we don't have a ton for right now. Well, I want to know this time, so.

I feel like maybe it's been three or four, because that was one of the first ones that, because there was probably two people here. No, that was the Airbnb. I was also trying to remember if it was even still

Maybe it wasn't even in business or still... Yeah, I'm unsure.

Yeah, and I'll have to look up their application and maybe even call them and say, hey, you know, are you still doing this? Yeah, depending on what they say will determine our direction, yes.

And I mean, I'm guessing you haven't heard any complaints either. No, right. Or it would be on your radar.

Right, right. I would remember if we had got you. Right, right.

okay um anything else okay do i have a motion to appear make a motion to adjourn oh i said it sorry you always confuse me when you say a second i thought you were doing it Well, when I was on the board, the president never made any motions. Oh, okay. Right. You can second that.