Planning and Zoning Board - Regular Meeting

angry up there. Oh, okay.

Trying to get my screen set up here. Um, there we go. All right. Welcome everyone. This is the planning and zona board meeting for January 29th, 2026. The time is approximately 6:31 p.m. and this is being held at the marina. If anyone would wish to speak on an agenda item. Oh, for first of all, I'd like to welcome everyone back for the new year. Happy New Year board members.

Happy New Year. Merry Christmas also and everything. So, thank you for being um for for being here and being able to celebrate the new year and hopefully we got a lot of good new things to come. All right. Um again, if anyone wishes to speak on an agenda item, please complete the public comment card and give it to the planning and zoning board staff prior to the board discussion and before the public comment section is announced. In no event will anyone be allowed to submit a comment card to speak on any agenda item after the title of the item is read or considered. The total time allotted for each member of the public to comment on each item is three minutes. Please be reminded that the planning and zoning board is committed to civility and decorum by members of the public who attend this meeting. We're going to start off um item number one with a moment of silence and the board will lead with the pledge of allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

All right, please may we have a roll call. Board member Williams here. Board member Stringer present. Board member Burgess here. Vice Chair Fernandez present. Chair Wy present. Alternate board members. Board member Brown. Board member Marie Joseph Davis I'm sorry. Marie Davis present.

Miss Lucy Joseph present. And also um chair for the record we do have new legal counsel. His name is Mr. Glenn Tracia. Welcome sir. Thank you sir. All right. Do we have any um but on to number uh what number two? Acknowledgement of any board member absence notifications. Yes sir chair. We have Mr. gallon that sent in written communications that he will not be in attendance tonight. Acknowledgement of any board member vacant position. Yes, sir. Chair, we have a vacant position in district two.

On to item number three. Are there any additions or any deletions to the agenda? No, Mr. Chair. On to number four. Disclosure by any board members. Adoption of the agenda. Please share. I motion to adopt the agenda as stated.

So do I. Yes. We have our first. We have a first and a second. Second. I second that. Okay. Are we ready for the vote, Mr. Chair? Yes. Board member Stringer. Yes. Board member Williams. Yes. Board member Burgess. Yes. Board member Vice Chair Fernandez. Yes. Chair Wally. Yes. Unanimous vote. Chair. All right. On to number five. Maybe approval minutes, please. Chair, we don't have any uh Mr. Weathers, we do not have any minutes for today's approval. Am I correct? That is correct. Thank you. On to number six. Unfinished business. Uh we have no unfinished business this evening.

All right, great. Um I would like uh we have some um distinguished guests inside the here to visit us and I would like them to come up and introduce themselves. Um they're here to um take a look at the city and be able to observe the city commission. So ma'am, would you like to please come up and introduce yourselves and let everyone know who you are? everybody. [laughter] Oh, here. Remember, he's a teacher. [laughter]

Hello everyone. My name is Michaela. Hello. My name is Abigail. All right. Let everyone know what school you go to. Uh, we go to Inlet Grove. In Grove. And what is your what is your what is your career? What is your desire for your career? Um, I'm in medical and I want to become a dermatologist. Yes, I'm in medical and I also want to become a dermatologist. That is awesome. Our future leaders right there. Welcome. Welcome. Welcome Michaela and Abigail. Thank you, young ladies. Um, to number seven, I'll do it. Um, new business.

We have no new business tonight, Mr. Chair. Right. On to number eight. Let's go and start our workshop items. Uh thank you. Uh this evening we have a workshop um to do some board training. Um we have um plan a series. So we want to do several of these workshops. Um so that's not too much at once. Um uh so tonight we have uh we'll talk about um the sunshine law um Robert's rules of order uh and then we'll do a general overview of of planning in Florida um and then planning in Rivier Beach and some of the main items uh that are in our codes uh that you will deal with um on a regular basis at your meeting. And so we'll be starting with the sunshine law. Um, and our attorney, Mr. Glenn Torcivia, uh, we'll leave that for the board.

Good evening. How are all of you tonight?

Good evening. Yes, I'm Glenn Tarcivia, been an attorney here in Palm Beach County since 1981. I started when I was six years old. Uh, and uh, had the pleasure of representing River Beach on various matters since 1992 since my friend Andy did graphite was the city attorney. I think several of you maybe know Andrew. Great man. Um, anyway, uh, a lot of what I'm going to tell you tonight I learned and worked with Andy on. So, um, start with the Sunshine Law public records. I what I try to do when I do these presentations, I gave you a lot of written material. You got about 45 pages. I'm not going to read 45 pages. You'd be bored. Uh, but it's there for you to read. If you have any questions, call me. That's what I'm here for. My job is to make sure if you have a question, you ask it even before the meeting. Uh, that way when you walk in, you know what you're doing. And if you have any questions about it, let's deal with it up front. Um, so what is the sunshine law? Uh, before I even look at the slide, in in a couple of sentences, what it really means is that none of you can talk to each other, can communicate with each other about the business that happens here outside of here. And when I say communicate, I mean any way in the world, text messages, Instagram, Facebook, stuff that I don't even know, you know, but all all these different ways of communicating. So, uh, chair, for example, can't lean over to a fellow board member and whisper outside of the meeting or you go to lunch and you talk about something. You can't do that. Not if it's going to come here. You can sort of talk about, you know, Super Bowl is coming up. You can talk about how your kids did it in the Grove. You can see whether they're going to be a dermatologist or a lawyer or medicine, whatever they're going to do. But, um, but you can't talk about the business here, um, outside of this meeting. So this first thing is just a quote from the statute at 286011 and it says all meetings of any board or commission that includes you um where any official acts are going to

be taken are public meetings and they're open to the public and you see the public is always invited to your meetings. Your meetings are never in private. The public always has a right to come and you have to give notice of that meeting. And then the clerk takes a minute of the meeting. Thank goodness. and uh the her minutes are open to public inspection. So you approve the minutes, those minutes are open, the public can make a request to see those minutes and they have a right to see it because at the end of the day all of us are here to serve the public. The public pays the salaries, the public pays the rent on this building, the you know the lights and everything else. So the public has a right to access uh the meetings where the business of the city is happening including your business. And then here's about the the minutes. You know, this is a South Bay right here in Palm Beach County case, and there's no exception. You have to record them promptly and open them to public uh inspection. You'll see this little bottom thing, reasonable attorney's fees. That's what that's what enforces this law. Whether it's the Sunshine Law or the public records, if somebody has to sue the city because we didn't produce the records in time or we violated Sunshine Law, they're going to get their attorney's fees. They don't get damages. It's not like an injury case where you rear end somebody and you're going to get money for whiplash. No, no. It's but it's about the attorney's fees. So, it incentivizes attorneys to take these cases and make sure that the government is being honest and open. And so, these are the big three. Notice has to be reasonable. Location has to be open and accessible to the public. I'll talk a little bit later, but I'll jump in now about restaurants. You know, used to be lunch meetings. You have a meeting in a restaurant. Well, yeah, maybe a restaurant is open to the public, but is it really accessible to the public? Because if you're going into a restaurant, don't you feel like maybe you need to buy something? Buy a burger, get a soft drink, whatever. So, that's not really accessible. So, it's got to be some place like this. And again, the

minutes we talked about where is a public meeting. So, this is what I started talking about before. any kind of meeting where you have where you're talking about the business that's going to come in front of you that's becomes a public meeting. So formal and casual meetings, like I said, lunch, you're at the ball game, you're watching your kids play soccer or baseball or football or whatever. You you can start talking about, you know, next week's agenda, we're going to be talking about this item. What do you think about it? You've now committed a violation of the law. Actually, it's a funny kind of law. It's almost like getting married, right? Or dancing. It takes two to tango. It takes two to get married. It takes two to violate the sunshine law. So technically, if you were to say to her, "What do you think about next week's meeting? How are you going to vote? Well, you proposed to her, but she hasn't accepted yet. So, you're not married yet, and you haven't committed the violation yet. But once she says, "Well, I'm thinking this way. How about you?" Now, you've both committed the crime. So, don't put your wife to be in that situation and ask her what she's going to do. And so, you want to avoid that. And again, like I said before, it's any way that you communicate, text, telephone conversations. You can't access third party. You can't say, "Hey, Glenn, could you talk to the board member and let me know what she's going to do?" Now, I'm committed a crime, too. And you'll see this word a lot too, the broadly construed, which means that the if the court's looking at this case, the city's never going to get the benefit of the doubt. The citizen is always going to get the benefit of the doubt. Um,

and again, it talks about advisory boards such as you. So, I'll skip some of these that don't really apply that much to you. Can you go back? Sure. I'm sorry, chair, if I have a [laughter] question. I agree. I was just going to say the same thing. Can you go back to the first slide? I know we have it, but want to make sure everyone else see it. I do not know how to go back on slides. I'm not technological. I'll turn it over to Mr. That's okay. Oh, the red button does not. I thought I was going to lose it. Yes. Question, chair. Um, so I wanted I seen that it says applicable to elected and appoint bodies. So does that mean because we serve on the planning and zoning board if we talk to an elected official anything?

Good question. Very good question. No, you can talk to elected officials. You can't talk to people on this board. Okay. Now again, the the difficulty about talking to an elected official or or anybody else is that that person can't go ahead then and talk to another member on this board about how you're going to vote or what your thoughts are. But yes, you can. You certainly have your first amendment rights to speak to elected officials about a matter. Okay. Chair, one followup. One, two. Go ahead. [laughter]

Then you mention about, let me get all the look dumb questions out the way, but the newbie you mentioned about like if we're in public settings because many of us, you know, we're all engaged in the community some form of fashion. I know the appearance of could be. So, how does that work?

See, I could have paid her to ask these questions. These are great questions. Uh the appearance is something again that that happens more with your commissioners but it happens to you too. So again, you're at lunch and you're talking about whatever. You're talking about Lyn Grove, you're talking about sports, you're talking about whatever you're talking about, but you're not talking about this. What's the person in next table going to think? Oh, they're conspiring. I know these two. They're both on the board. They must be If you're really talking about what's going to happen here, you got a boring life. So, you probably talking about other stuff. But that's why you have to be careful about the appearance of it. the appearance is not a violation, but you don't want someone coming up here and saying, "Well, you know, I saw these two talking. I want to know what you're talking about." Well, you know, that's none of their business. And if that ever happens, I think your answer is I can tell you we weren't talking about anything that's happening here. What we were talking about was personal, had nothing to do with city business and the planning is board.

Um, so it's it's strange because, you know, in a community, you're friendly. You know each other. A lot of people know each other on this board and you see each other at different places. Um, and you don't want to chill your ability to be an active member of the community. That's why you're all here because you're all active members of the community. But you just got to be mindful that there's sometimes people out there that if they see you together, they're going to think, "Oh, those two are going out." Well, you're just being friends. But, you know, somebody's going to assume, "Oh, you're going out or you're talking about this business." I keep picking on the two of you because you're on this side, so [laughter] don't feel bad about it. I'll talk I'll pick on Miss Davis. She's way down there. Thank you. Okay. No, I mean is not even [laughter] no.

Um I just had a question regarding public records requests. Um should there be in the case there's someone who asked for a minute? Is there a timeline as to when we need to provide those documents? Yes. My my my favorite word in the law is reasonable. It's got to be in a reasonable time. But what's reasonable? Okay. If I have this piece of paper [clears throat] right now sitting on my desk and you come in and ask for it, it's probably reasonable. I just gonna hand it to you or run and make a copy of it, right? That not much long. But if you made a request for 5,000 pages of documents, reasonable might be two months.

I've had a case one time where it took three months. Now, that I would never recommend that. I try to have my clients do two things. And again, this is almost always the clerk. It's not going to be you. If someone makes a request to you, you need to get in touch with the clerk. Um, and uh, but if you got a request or she gets to request, I usually tell people respond and acknowledge it. Okay, I received your public records request. I'm working on it and then within a few days, a week or so, most public records request you're responding to. You don't want it hanging out there. Um, so, and again, depending how extensive it is. If it's 5,000 pages, that could take a long time. And one thing about public records, and I know we're not really on public records yet, but I'd rather do this, you know, when you're interested in something. Um, a public record is something that already exists. You don't have to create it. Someone can ask you a question like, "Well, I want you to tell me how much 2 plus two is." No, you could ask me if I have a piece of paper that has the number two on it, and I'll give you that

and you can figure it out. But I don't have to come up with an answer. This isn't question and answer. It's not Jeopardy, you know? I'm not going to get the right answer to the question. But you do have to give the document to them. Next slide. Yes sir. One more question. Thank you. Um just a question. Um I just wanted to clarify just so we all understand completely sunshine law violations between the planning and zoning board is forbidden frowned upon. We can't talk. Correct. So it's the same rule for commissioners. Absolutely. They can't talk to each other either. But what is the difference between us having communication with the commissioner? What separates that? What's the fine line between that?

The separation is that you all are making a decision here together. The commissioners are not involved in your decision. You're not involved in their decision. You may make a recommendation to them sometimes, but each one of you are your own board, your own body. So just you might have some cities have historic resource board, some have a public art board, all those different boards. all just this, you know, back to the family idea. You're a family, they're a family. You got to communicate. You can't communicate within the family, but one family can talk to another family. So, you can talk to them about it. Um, all right. This is one clarification just in case I'm ask I love I love Yes, Miss Davis.

Notice um because there's so many committees in the city and some of us meet in other places, not necessarily right here. Does are the notices all supposed to wherever you're meeting, are they all supposed to be in one place so that the public can go to that place knowing that's sort of where all the meetings are listed and where they're going to be?

In the old days, different committees would have their meetings listed on the bulletin board, a town hall or some place like that. Nowadays, the bulletin board is a website, right? So, most meetings are listed on the website. Uh advertised meetings are rare unless they have to be advertised like a lot of your meetings have to be advertised or some of the action you're taking but um mostly now it's through the internet through websites uh you can post it on the bulletin board and that's it. You don't have to um do anything other than that. You don't have to put put them all in the same place. So as an example, city hall has this big box.

Well, you could you could say for example planning and zoning is meeting at the Marina Event Center. Um, public art is meeting at the old city hall. Yeah, you have to say where it's going to be. But there's no centralized locations like you're talking about. Well, it could be on the internet or it could be the website, isn't it? Isn't it on the website? Isn't that really where the readings meetings are all posted on the website? I believe is there something official? They should be. Yeah, they should all be posted on the city's website. That's your centralized place. Okay. Excuse me, Mr. Trilla. Yes. Can Miss M board member Davis, can you pull your microphone closer to you? We can Okay. Sorry about that. Miss Davis.

Oh, Miss Davis, are you okay? Thank you. Slippery slopes. With this cold weather we're having, I thought I better throw something in like this. Uh, I don't like the cold. Um, and these I'm going to kind of just go over. These are some examples. I talked about this. Emails, text messages. That's a slippery slope. you know, you start going down that slope, you're texting, and they text back and now you got a violation. Uh, slippery slope two, this really deals more, not so much with you, but committees. So, you don't have any committees under you, but commissions have committees. This dealt with a a college that had a committee. So, those are not really applicable to you, but the same principles. They can't communicate outside of the sunshine. The sunshine law does not require there to be an agenda. Now, we all have agendas. You'll always have an agenda, but technically um what do you also have on the agenda? You have additions and deletions, right? Is that on this agenda, too?

So, the theory and I and actually see that case at the bottom, law and information services versus city of River Beach, 1996. That was my case uh for the city. I was defending that case. someone sued. May I digress and tell a war story? Okay. So, years ago, the city talk three minutes, please.

Yeah. Why am I three minutes? It'll be a quick story. And and and some of you may know some of these people. Uh [laughter] so, the city commission was looking for a new city manager back in about probably 94, 95, if this case was 96. And they had gone through a process. They'd advertised. They had a list of I think six or seven final candidates and they had said to the public that we are going to interview these seven candidates. We're going to interview three of them on Tuesday and four of them on Thursday and we're going to make a decision next Monday. I'm making up the days but that was kind of the idea. They interviewed three and then at their regular commission meeting before they interviewed the next three or four people there was a motion made. Now the the agenda had already been adopted and the motion was made at midnight. These things always happen at midnight. I can tell you from experience, it always happens at midnight. Around midnight, council member made a motion. Well, I believe that we have interviewed three people already and I think so and so is the right person and we should hire so- and so and I move to amend the agenda, which is the smart move he did, amend the agenda to add to the agenda a discussion about the city manager. And so they did. They hired the city manager um that night at midnight. And of course, there was a lawsuit filed that said, not only was it not on the agenda, you actively misled the public. You told the public that this was the process you were going to follow. And you didn't. And believe it or not, I won that case because in that case stands for that proposition that additions and deletions can happen at any time. Once you're meeting, you as a public body meeting, the world is on notice that you're meeting and you can always add anything to the agenda. It doesn't say you have to add it at 7 o'clock where the normal addition and deletions. You can add it late in the meeting because the public's on notice. Philosophically, I didn't like that answer. As a lawyer, I liked it because I won my case. But um so do I advise you to ever do that? No.

I'll always advise you to put it on an agenda. If you're going to have additions and deletions, do it early because that's what happens when you do something in midnight. You wind up having a lawsuit over it. You spend a lot of time and money on it. I mean, that person didn't get their attorney's fees. The city doesn't pay their attorney's fees, but we had to pay our attorney's fees. Um, so that's a case that I'm glad I won, but I philosophically have a hard time with that. But I understand that what the court said was that what if a hurricane's coming? What if there's an emergency? You know, you can't tie the hands of a public body not to have additions and deletions. And that's why we all have additions and deletions because something might come up. Thank you for indulging my war story. And if any of you wonder who that manager was, I'll tell you off the record, but I don't want to talk about him out here. He's a great great great friend. Lunch meetings. We already talked about lunch. You don't want to do that where people are going to think you're talking about business here. Tape recording. Uh if we're taking a tape of the meeting and someone makes a public records request for the tape, the tape is a public record. But is that tape the minutes? No, the minutes have to be written minutes. So, and another case with Riviera Beach where someone requested the tape, they got the tape, then they requested the minutes, and the clerk at that time said, "No, I gave you the tape already." And the guy sued. And the guy was right. You have to have written minutes. And the written minutes can be short. They don't have to be verbatim minutes. Bobby said this. Susie said that. But they could say the board considered whether to paint the floor gray. Motion made to paint the floor gray. Action minutes are what they're called. That's all that's required. Just a short summary of what happened. And again, this doesn't say the type of notice. And this was the question before about what kind of notice is there. It's just got to say the t uh time place of the meeting. It's got to be prominently

displayed. Again, in the old days with city halls, now it's on the website. Usually, uh except in case of emergency, you want to give at least three days notice. Uh again, the public um the the attorney general's office will recommend seven days. That's their official position. But there are lawsuits again, including one that we had for the city, uh, where the city posted at 4 PM on a Friday that they were going to have a meeting at 4 PM on Monday and somebody sued, uh, claiming that that wasn't enough notice and the court decided that we were correct, that 72 hours notice was enough. So, I always rely on that case. I say, yes, there's actually a case that says 72 hours is enough notice. special meetings, you know, or emergency meetings. Again, the notice is always that word reasonable. Again, god forbid a hurricane's coming, you might have an emergency meeting on half hour notice. That's that's you got to take account of the reality of the situation. But in most of the time, you want 72 hours. The public has to have an reasonable opportunity to be heard. So that's why you always have public comment cards. People can make public comment at public meetings. does not mean you have to engage in an interaction. It's not a question and answer session. It's simply they have a right to make a comment. Um and again, there are some exceptions, but um the the idea is the public not only has a right to attend, but they have a right to be heard on an item. If you violate, what's the problem? Could be a criminal penalty. And there are state attorneys that will prosecute these crimes. And there are judges that will put people in jail for these crimes. And I'll show you a picture of one in a minute. You can get removed from office. You can have a civil the civil lawsuits which don't really impact you personally. That's going to impact the city. And then we talked about attorneys fees. And I love this little Latin at the end. Action taken in violation of

the law is void abio. What the heck does that mean? It means that it's void as if it never happened. It's almost like Superman went around the world when things went backwards. And you know, I don't know any remember that movie, but I remember that movie. And that's what it's like. It's void as if it never happened. So, this is two council members in Sebastian just a couple years ago that went to jail for violating the Sunshine Law. I'm doing this presentation a few years ago up from Port St. Lucy to a group called the Children's Services Council. And I show this slide. Now, the real little print at the bottom says, "And Judge Michael Lynn sentenced them to prison." Well, who was on the social service council that day? Judge Michael Lynn. And and he was friendly with everybody on the council. It was a superintendent of schools, a school board member, all those people. He goes, "And I'm telling each one of you, if you violate the law, I might be your friend, but I will put you in jail." Just like that. He was not joking. And here was the proof that he did it. So, you gota you don't want to violate that law. You don't want to I don't want to see anybody with the perp picture. [clears throat] This is just a a local judge talking about how important it is to follow the sunshine. I'm going to clip through clip through this. This is like three pages of his opinion. And uh you know, he does say here, if you lie about the sunshine violation, that's another crime. That's perjury. And I he's not kidding. A serious judge about this. Um here's just another example. Sum the county commissioner convicted a felony perjury removed from office served 75 days in jail. His case's conviction was reversed but he already served the 75 days. So if you do commit a violation you can cure it. What you want to do is at the next meeting you bring it up you discuss it again. It can't be a rubber stamp. You have to have a full and open debate and discussion and

for our I didn't know my Inland Grove medical students would be here, but you can see we got the medical picture here because you can cure it. Don't ignore it. And that's it. Now, this is public records. Uh I know I'm taking a little time and I got to bet with Kurt who's going to be faster. I think I'm losing right now. So, um I'll run through this really quick because we already talked a little bit about public records law. All these documents that you have relating to this, the agendas, they're public records. Um, you got to keep them. You gota I always recommend that you just provide your documents to the clerk. That's her role is to maintain them. Um, audio agendas and meetings, emails, text messages, all these things become public records. Doesn't I mean it applies to you, but really it's a this is more of a staff issue most of the time because uh social media accounts are always an issue, right? If you're on a social media, does your social media become a public record? If you start talking about public business, if on your social media account you're talking about the planning and zoning board and something coming in front of you, you've now opened up your social media account to public records request. Do you really want to do that? No. So, try and avoid using social media to talk about anything to do with with what might come in front of you as a board. It talks about drafts could be a public record. Uh, I always love this. A preliminary draft is not, but a real draft is. You tell me where that line is and I will give you a quarter. [laughter] I don't know where that line is, but I just told people realize anything you do could be a public record. Personal records, you know, you get a text message saying, "Honey, could you pick up milk on the way home?" That's not a public record. Uh, social media post about a non city is not a public record. But if it's dealing with city business, it probably is. So be careful with that. If you have a concern, don't create the record. Pick up the phone.

That then you're not creating a public record. Not by the sunshine law, but if you have a question to staff, for example, call, ask them.

And if it's not a public record, then you can't if someone makes a public records request, even if it's not, you can't dispose of it. Again, back to the clerk for 30 days just in case somebody files a lawsuit. Exempt public records. There's over a thousand exemptions. Social security numbers are exempt, right? All kinds of personal information. A police officer's home address is exempt. Code enforcement is so there's a ton of exemptions. That's why if you ever have a question about a public record, call me, call the clerk because there there's so many exemptions. I get questions at least two, three times a week about is this document exempt? Do I have to turn over this child's report? A lot of things with kids are exempt. Um, confidential is even stricter than exempt. If a document's exempt, you're allowed to release it. If it's confidential and you release it, you just committed a crime. So, I get real serious when someone is talking about a confidential record, confidential records, adoption records, birth certificates, ports of abuse, you know, social security numbers, driver's license. These are things that are confidential that should not be produced. So if someone makes a public record my personnel file, the clerk has to go through that and redact out, black out every time my social security numbers there, my date of birth is in there, anything like that, bank account numbers that should not be public records. Unfortunately nowadays with the internet, it seems like you could find out most everything about anybody anyway. But um we shouldn't be part of that. This is the question earlier. When do you respond a reasonable time? cities can actually charge and most of them have a policy that if it's more than 30 minutes, it's going to take more than 30 minutes because such an extensive request. You then send the requesttor an email that says, "Okay, it's going to take 10 hours and the salary and benefits of that person is $20 an hour." So, that's going to be $200 or $2,000, whatever the math is. And you can require them to give it a deposit. A lot of cities require 50%

down before they'll even start working on it then. Because the idea is the public shouldn't be paying for your public records request if it's expensive. You should pay. And why should why should the rest of the public pay for doing 20 hours worth of research for you? But it can't be exorbitant. It's got to be the real time. If my if I'm a $10 an hour or 20 an hour employee, you got to pay for that time. We talked about this redacting exempt information, confidential information. This is a charging for request 15 cents a page. The attorney's fees we talked about. [cough] [clears throat] Every city has to have on their website who the custodian is. There's a note. There's a note says who the custodian is so people know who to make a request to. I talked about this. You have to not you don't need to respond to request for information only a record. These are just helpful links if you have questions. I don't know, Kurt. Do faster than that. [laughter]

Are these questions free of charge or any questions though? Really? I mean, I'm not really rushing. I just don't want to bore you. You're on the record. Free of charge. You're on. [laughter] All right, I'll turn it over to Miss Thompson at this point. Thank you, sir. Thank you. Those are great questions. Thank you. And I sincerely appreciate all the service that you do. I know that you're all volunteers. You spend your time here. I see you here doing hard work, studying the material. So, thank you very much. Thank you, sir. Thank you. Thank you.

I have to Okay, for the record, I'm Kirk Thompson, uh, principal planner, uh, current planning and the planning and zoning building department. And my part of this is to present to you topics of review will be history of planning. uh the planning official three comprehensive plan and land development regulations and lastly reszoning site plan review special exception/puds okay so first of all what is planning and where did it begin planning generally speaking everybody is a process where a city or community guides or accommodates growth or development or decide on how that's done. Uh planning is in a practical sense started long ago before

there was a name for it. Colonial set settlers plan both in how they separated different uses and when and when they began to navigate land grants and establish farms. Planning encourages the separation of uses for the health, safety, and general welfare of the public. How did planning begin in Florida? Well, the legal framework of planning in the state of Florida started in 1970s with the Florida State Comprehensive Act of 72, uh the Environmental Land and Water Management Act of 1972 and then the local government uh comprehensive planning act of 1975. particularly the the local government act in 1975 require local governments to adopt and implement comprehensive plans. Okay, that if I may add that's one of the reasons I was living out in Washington state at the time in Seattle and doing planning and there was [clears throat] a big push for comprehensive planning and one of those I heard about was here in Florida. Uh and so then I began to pay more attention to Florida and became more more interested and here I am. Changes to planning in Florida in the 1980s. In the 198 in the 1980s, Florida determined that planning in Florida was not effective and the legislature did a major overhaul of both the legislative framework and the support system for it. The new system include chapter 163 part two and chapter 186. Most of you will know notice with chapter 18 163 in particular is where uh the section provides the minimum requirements for long range planning such as the elements within the

comprehensive plan. certain elements like future land use, uh infrastructure, uh the inter the intergovernmental relationship and the use of the waterways. Those were four of at least five or six mandatory elements that had to be in all comprehensive plans. And if you remember right, one of the most recent ones that was done was u involve uh local I think um god I can't think of the name of but there's been a number of at least five or so that's been implemented changes to the plan in Florida in the 1980s and in the 1980s uh Florida determined that planning in was not effective and the legislature did a major overhaul of both the legislative framework and the support system for it. That new system included chapter 163 and chapter 186. Uh 186 involve state and regional planning. Uh requires planning at all levels of government to be integrated. One of the things I did was when I first came here working for the city of West Palm Beach and then I went to work for the South Florida Water Management District which involve the the planning of water resources and that was the creation of chapter 373 which is the water resources development act uh that was created under by under state law. So now we we look at um why do we plan? Well, planning considers the present conditions and resources of a community and provides the road map to the future. It ensures that future development will occur in the way and in the location that the community wants it to. I.e. this is where all of you come in into play here. It allows for economic

development while protecting the overall vision that comm that the community has for itself. In short, you have to you have to plan for the future and for the future community that you want. Planning helps balance or consider various needs as well as the availability of resources and infrastructure. Planning considers a community strength, weaknesses, opportunities, and threats as a part of the analysis. And then lastly, planning protects the public health, safety, and welfare. That last one is the one thing I've I learned through grad school and and well, through my practice of doing this this profession. We're always into protecting the public health, safety, and welfare. Much like a the police officer sitting back there in the back, she's designed to protect the public health, safety, and welfare. How do we plan? Well, we plan through comprehensive planning, local review of projects and special studies or areas. Comprehensive planning is where we have we want to have a vision and that's the comp plan and what we need to do to achieve that vision which is the implementation which is the zoning code. This is an iter iterative process where you do it over and over again. So a comprehensive plan is your vision and the zoning code implements the comprehensive plan. The zoning code is a creature of the comp plan. Local reviews of projects we implement the comp plan with every uh local development permit. Staff and the board and the council consider the project both as far as its scope and if it is consistent with the code of ordinances which includes the zoning regulations. You heard zoning regulations referred to as land development code, zoning code or land land development land development code

or in some instances you hear people use zoning land development code. It's all the same. It's it's the zoning code where you regulate uh the activities that go on within a city, town or county. that analysis is front and center in every staff report that you uh you review for projects that come before you. As you know, it's we all submit staff reports. Myself, uh Scott Evans and Mr. Surmans, uh we present the staff report and we present all the different elements and how it complies or does not comply with the zoning code. There were special studies or area studies like you saw Sunonny Simon here, our comp our comprehensive plan, long range planning. Uh she talked about this the comp plan. She even talked about neighborhood plans. Neighborhood plans will fall into that area of special study special studies or area plans. And what is a planning official? The American Planning Association defines planning officials as any appointed or elected official involved in planning decisions for the betterment of a community, region, state, or country. In this case, all of you are a planning official because you are appointed uh by the city council. This job is one of public trust and is one of the meaningful ways you can serve your community and shape its future. Thank you for your service. In the city of River Beach, the planning and zoning board is appointed by the city council and serves in an advisory capacity to the city council by making recommendations on projects and application for consideration by the council. In this case, the planning board has five regular members and five alternate members. The first five of you

starting to my left and going all the way over to Miss Burgers. You five are the regular members and the four here are the alternate members. But you all get to participate and have your input. The planning and zoning board reviews land use changes such as maps and text changes, zoning changes, uh plats, site plans, and abandonment. Now with plat the recent there's been a recent state law that was approved that now plat are reviewed administratively by staff. You no longer have seen me myself or Scott or Mr. Surmons bring a plat before you because now state law has said that plats need to be done administratively to help uh move the process along a little more efficiently. police. That was the that was the um perception by state government signed by the governor and here we are. But I wanted to include that because other jurisd other states look at plat and it's a part of the public process and it was here until uh state government decided otherwise.

Chair, I have a question. Yes, go ahead. So when you say that staff approves it like are they being trained or they have experience to do that or because that was this is new state law they just Right. Well state law determined that the the expertise of of the local government of staff meaning you guys when you're saying staff or other people in the organization.

Well it's not just the planning staff. You have engineers you have the engineer department. You have the public works. You have police, you have fire, all of those uh technically trained individuals review plat. But primarily more than anything uh ma'am the decision was made by state government to be more efficient and to be and part of that is to to approve plat. I think Scott wants to add to that. Yeah, I would I would just add that um the state statutes provides very specific regulations for the plats.

Yeah. and we don't have the expertise to do that. So we uh am [clears throat] the review is the city engineer does have some uh review but we also hire an independent uh third party um to review that plat for compliance with the state statutes. So before it's approved it goes through that uh third party independent review. Okay. So it's not just right

employee A can say we can move forward with it. It's you guys uh reaching out to a third party engineer that gives you the recommendations which they align with the statutes then you guys get that and then it goes to approval process not necessarily through council or even our recommendations but inhouse. Yes, that's how Riviera Beach

that third party would be a licensed and certified surveying company or surveyor who then through the use of chapter 177 in the Florida statute reviews plat make sure they comply with state state law state statute and then they become the plat then goes through a evolutionary review process that ultimately ends up it being approved and and um recorded at the county uh office with the clerk of circuit court. Thank you.

Amendments to the comprehensive plan in section 27-34 of the city code which is talks about planning. It consists of section 163.3177 Florida statute. This is the law where the city's comprehensive plan provides the principles, standards and strategies for the orderly and balanced growth for the city. The planning board all of you is designated as the local planning agency responsible for reviewing proposed updates to the comprehensive plan. So in this instance has uh Sony Simon brought to all of you, you are the LPA or the local planning agency. So before anything gets to the city council, it comes to this body first. As the LPA, the board also reviews changes to the future land use map uh which establishes the desired land use uh zoning types and density uh and for the different areas of the city. The future land use map is basically the comprehensive plan of geographical format. Uh that's the way I always looked at it. Uh so when you look at the land use map, you're looking at the comp plan and a geographical format has has identified by the comp plan. And it's the same way with the zoning code. You're looking at when you look at the zoning map, you're looking at the zoning code in a geographical format in this case according to the way the city is laid out. And you have the text and then you have the map. And so the the map provides you with the visual. The test gives you the details. Okay. Fourth and final is with able with the this part has four different parts. The re reszonings uh chapter 31 of the zoning code which is this which is I'm sorry chapter 31 of the codeal ordinances which is the zoning code

establishes zoning districts. uh the allowed uses within each district and standards for the allowed uses. Not all uses are allowed within a particular zoning district. Some uses are prohibited because due to their the factor of nuisance, air, light, wind, things like that. Uh when reviewing an application for resoning, we determined uh whether or not the zoning change would be consistent with the comprehensive plan and site plans are applicable only if they're being uh approved concurrently with the reszoning. So, and then you have the text amendment. So, everything done in a zoning code comes back to the comprehensive plan. And you've seen staff reports. uh those you've been on the board long enough seen staff reports created by myself and Scott Evans or Mr. Surman or really staff reports are a combination of all of us uh I may be the lead on a on on writing a staff report but it doesn't come out and the final analysis it has input by all the planning staff particularly Mr. Evans and and Mr. discernments because I I always call them the management of the planning of the planning department because they are the the lead manager. So by department of the planning department management makes the final call [laughter] site plan reviews you have section 31-57 which talks about purposes of site plans. Uh this is where we spend well this is where I have spent most of my career is in site plan review. Um and I don't want to sound arrogant or like anything like that but I spent 40 plus years doing this business and a lot of it involved the site plan review and

text and zoning code review. Um I go back to 1980 to now. So you can you can you all can do your math on that one. special exception uh standards for granting special exceptions like PUDS all PUDS each zoning each jurisdiction has their own particular uh idiosyncrasies or requirements in this city puds are are part of by definition special exceptions and so you've seen us bring staff reports before you and you have not just the PUD standards but you also have the standards for special exceptions And that's because here in this city by definition is a special exception. Okay. So then these those five um or so standards are all a part of the special exception. So, if you see us having a 30, 35 page or more sta uh staff report, it's because we're trying to make sure all those standards are met. And then we show you the standard and show you how a project meets it or in some instances how it does not meet it. And here's a continuation. There are standards for granting the special exception. One of the more important things is screening and buffering, signage, uh the yard and open spaces and I' and I feel the questions from all of you about things like screening, buffering, landscaping and in certain instances open and a lot of instance open space and then of course there's that one instance when we have Miho the minority employment and housing opportunity plan where we always try to make sure that we have um standards of conditional approval that recognize the uniqueness of River Beach and the Mihop

is one of those things.

And if I could just expand on that uh if you don't mind. So when a lot of projects that come before uh this board for recommendations, uh the site plans, the zoning code for each different district lists all of the uses that are permitted. So if it's a permitted use, they have to follow the setbacks, the the um the various regulations, the landscaping uh to comply. But then some of the uses are listed as special exception as Kurt has just uh gone over. So when a project comes before you uh that's a site plan if it it's a particular use that's listed as a special exception what's that what that means is it's it's a use that's allowed but the city has determined that it needs extra scrutiny or review. Uh so the special exception section uh what you see on the screen highlights what are the areas that we're concerned about uh in this particular use because if it's designed in a certain way we think it won't impact the properties that are adjacent. Um but if it's um but but it's important because perhaps it's got some sort of potential nuisance. Um, so when you're looking at a site plan that's also a special exception, it's because these special regulations, we wanted to make sure that the applicant paid attention to them when they designed it. So, it's just an extra layer uh to ensure that a project is going to fit into the neighborhood or community,

right? And one of the things as you all have noticed is that we have conditions of approval and those conditions of approval are used to minimize if not totally try to look at eliminating [clears throat] any adverse impact that a proposed use or site plan would have. So we establish what we believe are reasonable conditions and in some instances I'm sure you've seen where you've added a condition uh or two and we we take that condition we put it in we put it as a part of the staff report so that when it goes to the city council now that those one or two extra condition that you suggest become a part of the approval and with with that uh board members Mr. Chairman uh Miss Vice Chair and members concludes the stat our presentation. Yes, Miss Davis.

Yes. Um so when you all are review sort of go back to the beginning of planning in general. So the city many you know a hundred years ago the city was laid out to appear in a certain way. Now we progressed to to where we are. So when you're updating comprehensive plans and res zoning and reszoning in various neighborhoods, do you actually look at the new resoning that you're proposing and how it physically impacts the neighborhoods either through visuals or not flat but like a 3D presentation to yourselves. Does that make sense?

Yes, ma'am. Let me try to answer your question. And I believe um in the zoning in the statute report I think you've noticed whether there like eight standards that talk about text amendment reszoning or site plan text amendment or reszoning or or text amendment or reszoning. those those eight standards are used to, if you will, filter out the use to see how well that use meets the intent of the the intent and purpose of the comprehensive plan. So that's why we always have those eight standards within a staff report. Like for instance, in a in a in a use coming up in a a project that's coming up next month, there are approximately those eight standards you will see in terms of because they're asking for a reasoning from a downtown core to another district. I don't want to get into the details because I have to be careful with that. But basically it it there's the standard and then you'll see where the staff believes how that project meets that standard. You you see what I'm getting at?

No, you don't. All right. So maybe I didn't ask the question. Speak up a little louder. Okay. So when you're looking or when you're all of you get behind your desks and you're looking to see what you're resoning is, do you take like the the building height now plus what it's going to be and show how it looks in the neighborhood in that that's where I mean those are renderings. You talk about a rendering. Are they 3D or they flat? That's what a

they give us an applicant gives us copies of a rendering and you what a lot of the members here have already seen it. M say this too where we give renderings you know that was saying a picture is worth a thousand words. So we send we create renderings that the applicant submits. We show you so you can get an idea of the scale the scale mass height of the building to see if it's how compatible or un incompatible how the use is.

Well and if I could just add um so the the regulations in our requirements for project submitt are for elevations. elevations are are the flat cross-section view of whatever they're proposing to build. Uh, however, we always request and and it's really to the applicant's benefit. So, they always uh provide them renderings, which is that's the picture that's sort of on an angle and you can see the 3D. You can often see one or two sides of the building. You can see perhaps what's in the background. Um so the the elevations are the flat and then we also get the request the renderings which is sort of the 3D. Now we don't have a model that you can um sort of go into through software and look around but they do require those 3D uh pictures that sort of show how the build building that they're or the property that they're developing would look. So this is just specifically what you're saying is specific to the project itself, not necessarily how it impacts or how it looks. You had a 20story building next to a bunch of single family homes. So there's nothing there in the applicant's um renderings that reflect how it impacts that neighborhood, the the view or the

I I would say for most large scale projects, their renderings include uh the surrounding properties, if it's a single family house, if it's a small apartment building. Um and staff always of course looks at that. Um, but it's not a there's not a specific code section related to to that, right?

We show in the rendering how property lines are imaginary. So, you can't see a property line, but you can see the distance from one building to the other. And we oftentimes will ask an applicant or we'll do it as a staff to tell you approximately how far a propo the height the distance from one proposed building to an existing building or the distance between the use and another use. Or one of the things is is called a shadow study where you know high-rise buildings project a shadow and we sometimes will ask an applicant or an applicant will provide that information in a rendering and we we will show that to you so you can get an idea of how it will impact the residential area or the nearby area. Am I getting am I getting how am I doing? Am I getting better at it?

Better. No, I'm just concerned about I mean we have so many projects in in Riviera Beach. It's hard to know, especially on Broadway, how they're going to impact how Broadway looks now and how it's going to look then or even I know everybody has traffic studies done, but it it's almost like from a 10,000 foot view, how it looks now and then with an overlay or whatever, how much is going to impact Rivier Beach and and Rivier Beach

and its residents When you look at one of those renderings, oftent times we will get a ren we will get a series of renderings which that will show how the the the shot of a building would be at a certain time of the day like from 9:00 a.m. to noon to 3 to 5:00 p.m. Okay, that gives you some idea if a building is going to overwhelm the surrounding area because of its height, its scale, and its mass. And we look at that. I have looked at that quite a few times in my experience and in my career. Um there is that there's a saying in planning of nuisance uses. Will a use create noise? Will it create uh foul over? Will it create uh a glare? Will it create no you know certain negative uses to the community that would be a detriment? And we try to look at all we look at all those things. And that's where when you see a staff report, it's not just one person. Like I said, it's a combination of all the planners that on staff. We go through it and work and work it through. And in some instances, we ask the applicant to provide additional information to the point to where we have a good feel for it. And then we try to convey that to all of you in the staff report. And then with that is this not a bunch of words where we get your renderings, pictures, site plan, landscape plans, things like that.

So when you're looking at but you're looking at it or maybe I'm incorrect, but you're look we're talking about project by project. So not I have to use you know um Broadway as an example because that's barely all I know about it. So, when you're looking at a project and there are going to be five buildings on Broadway that are going to be large and smaller, do you look at the the entire area to see Okay, Mr. Chair, if I may. Yes, we do.

Yes. Um actually right now we're working on um a new study because the city this in the downtown area of the the city um primarily the CRA area you could you have the ability to apply for a planned unit development that can allow a project theoretically up to 25 stories. Um so we're working on a study right now with our consultant who is uh Cotler Herring uh that will eventually come before you uh for your recommendations and review. Uh and that study looks at well the premise is that we don't it assumes that we don't want 25 stories. It's not appropriate for every single property in the entire downtown. So it's that is trying to have that big picture look to say uh you know where do we what heights do we have with existing buildings right now um and what heights do we want to limit the development um in the in the whole CRA because there's some areas uh that aren't appropriate for 25 stories. So, we are specifically working on a new uh overlay uh that will consider all of the properties in a comprehensive manner and that will probably come before this board um in April or May.

So, when you do that, does that also encompass congestion and traffic and things like that? That the congestion and traffic is looked at separately. Um, but would you look at it as a one a project at a time or like this new study that you're referring to? The new study is just for height. Okay. Okay. Thanks, chair. Yes.

As you've been on this board for years and you hear the same thing from everyone who's been here. We do not want a Miami. We do not want a Fort Lauderdale. We do not want what West Palm Beach is turning out to be. We don't want 25tory buildings next to each other next to each other because you're going to have a major congestion. And if all correct, if I recall correctly, I do not believe a traffic study is needed for CRA or downtown core. Am I correct, Mr. Evans? You are required to do a traffic study.

Uh but go ahead. Um there are there's less requirements to meet. Um and that's not just in Riviera Beach. It's I understand all of Palm Beach County the um ability if you have residential for example which is east of I95. Then there's a bunch of exemptions that regardless of traffic um that do allow that that density to go in. So that's

correct. And those exemptions, although we mentioned traffic studies here and all that, those exe exemptions play a major key in the approval, the problem I personally have is not is thinking outside the box and making sure that we do not have another Miami, another Fort Lauderdale, another West Palm here in Riviera Beach. We can't even practically move on Broadway now as it is. So, what I'm trying to what I'm trying to get at and I know I mentioned it at plenty of meetings when we look at approvals that are coming in and we have a development that's coming in and I know I've discussed this before with staff. I know you discuss it with them saying why don't we do this instead of this. I would love a 50story building for a developer more money but it's not feasible for that area. We did it on Broadway on that one project. You cannot put 25tory buildings and behind you got the single family residences. That's not going to work. So, we're going to work with that developer. But it doesn't mean we can work with every developer. What I'm trying to get at is let's just look at everything that's been approved and think about the community. Look at our comp plan, which I believe the old one and the new one will include open space. Well, if you clutter up the entire area with 25story buildings, I don't know what open space. And I know we had a developer in there. Oh, we're bringing in bikes. Really? You're going to get people to ride bikes on Broadway to get to work in Westbomb Fort St. Lucy? Good luck. So the bottom line is let's just just look at an overall project not individual but as an overall impact to our city and our citizens because we have to live here and developers come money they leave and the rest is up to us. So that's that's my

own humble thought on this. I I appreciate the time Mr. Chair. That's what you call regional planning. See that's and we have and we do do that and I I have been involved um in not just the the urban planning of the immediate city or area but then look at the regional impact of whatever is going on like in West Palm or in Lake Park or or even Palmy Gardens and what impact that has on on a whole region. Right.

We tried regional planning in Miami Dade. Where' that lead us to? We tried regional planning in in Broward. My god, I'm already in Palm Beach County. I can't keep moving north. So, I've seen the detriment of development. Miami surrounding communities, Broward, surrounding communities, now West Palm. So we if we have regional planning, somebody in West Palm must have missed it because they're building some monstrosities in some old neighborhoods and taking over some older condos to rebuild into more monstrosities. I don't know whether people are going to I don't know if you're going to be able to drive into West Palm anymore. That's my own humble opinion.

We keep trying. We keep trying. back keep trying a little more on the on the help us citizens things but appreciate it Mrs. Thompson, you guys do a great job. Thank you, chair. And then I have one more question real quick. I think what we're trying to say in I am at least in my in articulate way is we as residents and taxpayers want to have a quality life and for those in the future over quantity. That's it. [clears throat] Thank you. Yes, ma'am. Chair, I need to be excused. Yes. Thank you, m Mr. Chair. We just did have one other item that would take about 5 minutes. Okay.

Um Mr. Torcivia is just going to quickly go over Robert's rules of order, which are the general rules in running a meeting. Uh and we just wanted to make sure that you had an opportunity just to get a refresher on those rules and for the new members. Absolutely.

I think I'll be brief on this. uh you know Robert's rules the point of Robert's rules is to make sure that you know every member has equal rights to speak and propose motions and vote during the meetings. The chairperson supposed to enforce the rules and ensure the meetings proceed uh smoothly and fairly. I often say the chairperson is like the traffic cop. You're directing traffic. You're making sure that people stop when the light is red and go when it's green and give them the yellow when they need the yellow. They do a great job of that, by the way. Um, there are different kinds of motions you can make. The typical motions that you're going to hear are motions to approve staff recommendation, motions to deny, motion to adjurnn. Everybody loves that motion. It's a favorite motion. Um, and um, you know, if if someone is made a motion, uh, usually what happens is the chair will recognize that person. The motion is then made and seconded by someone. Uh, then there's debate and then you take a vote on the motion. So it's kind of an orderly process and usually and again I've observed you all do this too very well that the chair will let everybody have their say everybody has a chance to talk and present their position and and then you vote on it. The key is always what you do. You listen to the other side. Sometimes people change each other's minds. You hear something that you didn't think about or you didn't hear. Um you be polite and then you vote and that's pretty much it. You just just it's to me it's basic civility. It's a um although it's harder to run a meeting than it looks. You know, people think, "Oh, it's easy to run a meeting." Nope. You got, you know, five, six, seven, eight, nine different human beings up there. We're all different. We all have different, you know, things that uh kind of tickle our fancy or or get us going. So, um it's all a matter of just being polite to each other and listening and let the chair do what he's supposed to do, which is run the meeting. That's it. We have a peaceful

You do board. Absolutely. Absolutely. Pleasure to work for. Absolute pleasure. Thank you. All right. Can we go move on to number nine where we have public comments? Are there any public comment cards? We have no comment cards, Mr. Chair. All right. Let's on to um general discussion. Any staff updates? We have no updates, Mr. Chair. All right. On to correspondence. by the board. We get a pay raise this year.

I think that's what tripling the uh the pay from zero to zero. But we very much appreciate [laughter] you volunteering to to work on this board. Um it takes a lot of hours to review all those materials. Um, and so we very much appreciate it and and we appreciate you because oh my god, what's he going to ask next? Oh my lord, here he goes again. We appreciate it and your gifts, water, no candies tonight, but it's okay. It's coming in with the new budget year. Next meeting. Appreciate everything you guys do. Really do. I'm good. Um, sir, welcome aboard. Thank you. Always good to be back here. Absolutely. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

All right. So we got a 0% increase. Mhm. We got a 0% increase. Okay. [laughter] Copy. So on that note, also on on to see the planning and zona board. Um I was looking I didn't have a date. There's no specific date yet for the next planning zoning board meeting. There's no date on here. Uh the next board meeting will be February 12th. February 12th. February. February 12th. February 12th. Yes. Yes, sir. Okay. So then I go on to number 11. Do we have a motion for adjournment? Motion to adjourn. 7:47 p.m. Do we have a second, sir? Second. All agreed. We're out of here.