Finance Committee - Regular Meeting

They have practice or game every single day of the week, and they have strength. Proud of this. Thank

you. Good evening. Sean Murphy on behalf of the city attorney's office.

Christy Thomas, finance director.

For public works.

Freddie Oriana, associate so engineer for public works.

We have no members wanting to participate remote. Vice chair, could you make sure your mic is on? Thank you.

Okay. We'll now open the lines for public comment.

Public comment is now open for this item. Call (951) 826-8688 and follow the prompts to access the meeting. To request to speak, press 9. When called to speak, press 6 to unmute. You can also join via Zoom. The meeting ID can be found on the agenda.

We got that out of the way and now we'll go ahead and do roll call. Commissioner Ira? Commissioner Bello?

Present.

Commissioner Roton? Present. Commissioner Hutchins?

Present.

Commissioner Thomas?

Present.

Commissioner Ward? Present. Commissioner Benavides? Here. Commissioner Schirnikov?

Present.

Commissioner Lagner?

Present.

Commissioner Scott Coe?

Present.

Chair Williams? Vice Chair Vandenberg?

Present.

We have quorum.

Okay. Do we have any callers?

We have no callers.

Thank you. I'm looking for a motion to approve the consent calendar.

So moved. Second.

You may begin voting using your PIN pads. Motion passes unanimously.

Thank you. Can I also get a motion to excuse the absences of Vice Chair Vandenberg, Commissioner Weinrich, and Thomas from the October 9 meeting?

I believe Commissioner Hutchins approved.

That included the absences as

well? Yes.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. We

have a presentation from Alex Ramirez, senior engineer from Public Works tonight.

Good evening, Budget Engagement Commission. My name is Freddie Oriana, and I'm with the city of public works department. I am pleased to present this update on the city's payment management program. For this discussion today, I'll be referring to the city pavement management program as the PMP. First, a brief background of the program.

In 2013, the city's PNP was operating on a budget less than 10,000,000 per year. A budget of this size obviously did not allow for an extensive list of locations to be paved annually. Therefore, the city secured a $38,000,000 bond to implement a more comprehensive paving program for over three years, during which we completed maintenance on approximately 24 miles of arterial and collector roads as well as 26 miles of local streets. This debt was refinanced in 2023 and is saving the city approximately $240,000 per year for an anticipated total savings of $2,400,000 upon the loan maturity in 2033. The city's PMP budget was significantly increased in 2017 with the passing of the state senate bill one gas tax and the city measure z sales tax initiatives.

These two funding sources have increased the BNP budget to approximately 15,000,000, and our current budget stands at roughly $24,000,000. I don't believe the state SB one sunsets, but the city measure z will sunset in 2036. Public works is consistently exploring opportunities to improve the PMP with the support of the city council. In September 2022, the city council approved extending the paving moratorium from three to five years, which allows us to restrict cutting into newly paved streets for up to five years. In December 2023, the city council approved an agreement that allows public works to conduct a study exploring the option of implementing a pavement cut feet for developers and utility companies that impact our roadways, we are still evaluating the survey results.

In July 2024, public works provided a PMP update to the budget engagement budget engagement commission. Commission. With the additional PMP funding public works began receiving in 2017, we started a more proactive and objective evaluation process for selecting maintenance projects and determining the recommended PMP project budget. The city executed an agreement for a consultant to assess the condition of every street in the city network by assigning each street a payment condition index, also known as a PCI, which is a score between one and a 100, where one is the worst and a 100 is the best. These individual scores are utilized in general to generate an overall network PCI.

The second contract was executed in 2020 to initiate a systematic approach to completing an annual partial network surveys, which commenced in 2021. This was a five year program that allows all arterials to be surveyed every three years, all collectors to be surveyed every four years, and all local roads and alleys to be surveyed every five years. It should be noted that this current contract expires this year, and a new agreement will be produced to initiate a new cycle of surveys. This will include a study of the entire street network in 2026, providing us a new baseline for assessing and current health of our network. Now let's talk about the network health.

Three metrics can define the health of a roadway network. The first metric is the overall network PCI. The second metric is the percentage of roads excellent condition which are roads with PCI greater than 85. The last metric is the backlog which is the street in poor or very poor condition, which equates to streets with PCIs less than 40. To summarize, our program results since the initiation of our PMP in 2017, our PCI has dropped from 61 to 58.

It should be noted though that the original report we received in 2018 indicated our PCI will drop to 57 in five years based on that projected funding levels at that time. While the drop off to a PCI to 58 in 2024 aligns with the original report, we have actually fared better due to the increased budgets we have received in the past few years, which has proven positive for the program. It should also be noted that the target percentage of excellent roads should be around 15%, and the target percentage of for backlog should be 10%. Also, I wanna correct the PCI summary table shown. The excellent row ROADS row for July 2022 and May 2023 should be 12 plus 1211.4% respectively.

This concludes my portion of the presentation. I will pass it over to Alex Ramirez to continue the presentation.

Good evening, commissioners. My name again is Alex Ramirez. I'm a senior civil engineer with the Public Works Department. I'll be continuing our pavement management update and explain how our operating budgets have evolved over time. Back in 2017, the city's annual payment operating budget was about 15,000,000.

However, our payment management report at that time recommended that we needed $24,000,000 per year just to maintain our then current PCI of 61. It took us about five years to reach that 24,000,000 annual budget and in the meantime, our overall PCI continued to decline as projected. I'll note that in fiscal years 2023, 2024, the city made a one time $10,000,000 transfer from the general fund to support our payment management program. Unfortunately, these funds were quickly used up just to keep our pace of our existing list of promised streets repaving projects. From 2021 through 2023, we also began to see a rapid increase in construction costs which pushed our target paving budget even further out reach.

This exhibit here shows a chart that we often use to illustrate pavement management goals. It highlights a key concept. For every dollar we invest in preservation such as applying pavement seals, we can extend the life of our roads and avoid spending several times more later for major rehabilitation and full reconstructions. Street preservation may not be too popular since it focuses on our good streets, but timely maintenance is about protecting our good streets and investing while making sure every dollar goes as far as possible. This table shows our historical budget information and millions of dollars based on what if scenarios going back to 2018.

For example, on the left lower side, if the city would have invested around $34,500,000 a year since 2018, our overall PCI could have improved to 65. As we move across the table to the right, we see that the current target increase year over year largely due to inflation and construction costs increase. With the most current data, we now see that to maintain our current PCI of 58, the city would need to invest roughly $41,000,000 a year. Let's dive into our current fiscal year's budget for paving maintenance. Using a combination of funding sources including Measure A, the state gas tax, federal HUD funds, and local Measure C, we have about a total of $26,000,000 dedicated for paving and street maintenance this year.

The two other columns on the slide show show the concrete repair projects and traffic safety improvements. By subtracting those two totals, we bring a total of $24,000,000 for this fiscal year for pavement management program. It's important to note that for every road segment we pave, we also include concrete repairs and traffic safety improvements as of our overall projects. This is separate from those two right columns that work outside our paving limits. Our paving management program has been recovering from a recent surge in construction costs that have occurred during the fiscal years 2021 2022 as well as 2022 and 2023, which created a deficit on several projects that we are still working to overcome.

Right at the start of this fiscal year, we had to make a $3,000,000 reduction to our current budget to address these challenges. Another significant adjustment came from the Iowa grade separation project audit. Although the project was completed over a decade ago, the state reclaimed funds that were deemed to have been used on ineligible items. After these deductions, we are currently roughly halfway through our recommended allocation $41,000,000 per year just to keep our current PCI levels. In addition to conducting regular street surveys, the city uses engineering software such as Luciddy to help prioritize and select project locations.

Public Works also receives requests from 311 call center and staff meets with our council members annually to discuss community priorities. This table summarizes our fiscal year's 20 five-twenty six project mileage totals by roadway classification. We are looking to resurface 3.5 miles of arterial streets, 2.4 miles of collector streets, 7.4 miles of minor streets, and including 2.5 miles of preservation. And we are also looking to add new pavement sections to three alleys including some drainage improvements. A complete list of project locations was presented during the pavement management program update to city council on 08/05/2025.

Public Works strives to incorporate innovative improvements wherever possible including traffic safety components supported by our local roadway safety plan and complete streets ordinance. Whenever possible roads are resurfaced, it's a great opportunity to revise our striping and provide passages for all modes of transportation with those costs included in the project. As mentioned earlier, a portion of our annual budget is specifically allocated for traffic safety projects. This fiscal year we are proposing 14 curb extensions citywide in areas of high pedestrian traffic. These improvements not only enhance but also support economic development by improving walkability to nearby businesses.

Our potential enhancements include traffic circles, high friction surface treatments, smart cameras to reduce red light running, and adaptive signal timing. In addition to traffic safety improvements, we are implementing a cost saving approach for dust and sediment control in our unpaved alleys. We will start using asphalt grindings generated from our maintenance projects and install them in these alleys which will reduce cost while improving the alley surfaces. Public works is always looking for new funding opportunities and creative ways to save cost to support our payment management program. A few ongoing efforts include the payment cut, trench cut fees.

We are looking into payment cut fees for developers, utility companies, and utility companies whose trenching projects affect the strength and overall lifespan of our streets. Partnership with Riverside Public Utilities. RPU Water recently increased contribution to our on call paving contract from $1,500,000 to $4,000,000 a year to help these trench line repairs related to their water work. Regional funding discussions with RCTC. We are in early discussion about potential traffic relief plan which could involve a sales tax increase to generate a new funding source for street maintenance projects.

Heavy traffic impacts. Because heavy traffic places a significant strain in our roadways, we are assessing the creation of a community facilities district in heavy industrial areas to help offset those impacts. Recycling and green practices. Reusing existing street materials saves money and supports sustainability. As a standard practice, we currently use recycled tire material on most of our resurface projects.

Another method, full depth reclamation, pulverizes existing pavement and creates a new base layer which is then paved over for a more durable cost effective roadway. Traffic index updates. Many of our streets were not originally designed for the current traffic loads. As a part of the general plan update, we are recalculating the city's traffic index which will allow us to design pavements that better match our actual street usage. In conclusion, Public Works is nearing a full recovery from our recent surge in construction cost and inflation.

We are also closely monitoring recent tariff discussions which could potentially impact future project costs. The good news is that for now, construction prices have leveled off and we have even seen a slight decrease in the recent bids. The Budget Engagement Commission has expressed support for allocating additional funds to our paving program. Our fiscal year's twenty five-twenty six proposed projects will complete approximately 17 miles of resurfacing. And this year we'll be more focused on arterials and collectors.

I'll note that the last few years we've been doing more like 50 miles. This year it's a lot less, 17. But it's because the last few years we've been doing more slurries, seals that a lot less, cost a lot less. And this year we're focusing on the larger streets, arterials and the collectors. So that explains the reduction in mileage from the last two years.

Similar budget, just less mileage. Finally, public works views our roadways as valuable city assets. We demonstrate this by extending paving moratorium to five years considering the payment cut fee, implementing a GIS based project map that better serves to coordinate planning between us and developers and utility providers, improving our trench repair standards to protect our long term pavement integrity. These efforts reflect our ongoing commitment to maintaining and protecting our city streets efficiently and sustainably. As a reminder, if if if you guys are not familiar with this map, it could be found on our using our www.riversideca.gov/paving map.

This This map here will reflect all the planned and under construction roadways. It also displays our moratorium streets for our utility companies or developers looking to planning new lines or whatnot. I encourage everyone to look at this map. It also includes our fiscal years twenty five-twenty six projects. Our recommendations today is that the BEC, the Budget Engagement Commission, receive an update of this payment management program, including our proposed fiscal years twenty five-twenty six projects. This concludes our presentation. I will now open it up for any questions. You.

Thank you. We will now open the phone lines for public comment.

Public comment is now open for this item. Call (951) 826-8688 and follow the prompts to access the meeting. To request to speak, press 9. When called to speak, press 6 to unmute. You can also join via Zoom. The meeting ID can be found on the agenda.

We have no callers. Thank you, Secretary. Commissioner Scott Coe.

Thank you, Mr. Vice Chair. Excellent report. Really appreciate it, and I think you're very right that the Commission has expressed a lot of interest in this area. I wanted to make sure I understood. You said that in order for us to or the current funding levels, it looks like it's kind of settling at the 25 plus change million per

Correct, yes.

And the budget the measure Z component of that seems to be roughly in the 11 to 12,000,000

That's correct.

Do you know what and maybe this is to others what the current Measure Z plan is for paving support? Is it maintaining that level of funding? Is it increasing slightly? I don't know if anyone has that As in front of

far as I know, it's maintaining. I hear that it probably won't go up from measure Z. That's what I keep hearing. But at least for now, it could be maintaining. It might be reduced. I don't know if you guys have more on that.

Hi, Christy Thomas, Finance Director. So, in the five year spending plan for Measure Z in the adopted twenty four-twenty six biannual budget, we do have it remaining in those future years at about $11,700,000 But again, those future years are subject to council adoption and budget development and what we can afford as we head into that next biannual budget.

And when would the budget engagement commission next review that plan? Speaking as someone who will unfortunately be having to leave the commission in March. Will it be happening before then?

Yeah. We try to do it early in the calendar year as we get a little bit further along in budget development. So, I don't have a specific month for you yet, but hopefully we can get that to you before your last date.

I appreciate it. Thank you. And finally, just a quick on the utility cut fee. As someone who runs a utility, I've not come across a fee like that before. Are they pretty typical or becoming more regularly instituted by local agencies, cities, counties?

I think we're cutting edge or kinda introducing it in I've the heard Anaheim has it, but Gil has more information. I know he's been kinda forefront on this subject.

So good evening, Commissioner Scottko. Gil Hernandez, fellow works director. So this new this is not a new fee in California. It has been in place for several years. City of Anaheim, city of Santa Ana, there's a few cities in Orange County that have adopted this fee.

And the reason is is that when contractors, developers cut into the roads, it does reduce the useful life of the road regardless of how well that repair is made. Once they cut into the road, obviously, it's not compacted as much. There's gonna be a little bit of loose material there. Also the seams now are can lead to water intrusion that again reduce useful life of the road. So they've done numerous studies saying that, hey, this is what you should be doing, you should be assessing some of these developers to help preserve the streets.

So here city, in it was a very extensive study. They actually looked at approximately 30 locations. They came up with a very extensive report saying this is what you should be considering as a fee to help preserve the roads. We going through that study. That study will be coming to city council likely in mid-twenty twenty six to share the recommendations and allow the council to consider adoption of those fees.

So again, it's not something new. It is new to the City Of Riverside. But again, other agencies are taking a more proactive approach to see how best we can improve our roads. I think in today's presentation, you can see that there's a big delta, big gap between what's needed to help preserve the existing PCI and what we have. So this is one way to kind of close that gap. And also not ask the general public to, again, bear some of that impact. Again, as the folks that are contributing to the damage, they would also be contributing to that increased funding to preserve the roads. Thank you.

Do you have an estimate of how much you're targeting for revenue generation through such a fee?

Great question. Great question because that is one of reasons we're going to be engaging counsel. Because it is a range, right? We can be aggressive or maybe not as aggressive. We expect some pushback from utility companies because one, they're already repairing the road. And now we're going be asking them to contribute additional funding to preserve the road. So as an example, City of Anaheim, they have approximately half the number of miles in that particular city. And they're generating a little over $1,000,000 per year with their new fee. So they can be a little bit more aggressive. Obviously, we too can be a little bit more aggressive.

So again, we're probably going to be looking at 1,000,000 or $2,000,000 per year in new funding for roadway preservation. If council wants to be a little bit more aggressive, obviously that fee would generate even more money for us. But I think my recommendation is let's start somewhat low and allow us to potentially increase future years as opposed to being too aggressive and scaring a lot of the utility companies and developers away from this. So the one thing I do want to mention is that with the PCI map that is posted online, utility companies have the opportunity to go in there and see where the city is planning to do paving work. And that would be an easy out for them because they can conduct their work in advance of our paving work.

And again, they would not be subject to that fee. So we also want to be very fair to them and say, look, if you're also proactive and consider where your work is taking place, that is one way to minimize those impacts. The other thing too, this is very early, again, not been shared with counsel, but we're also looking at the roads that are in very poor condition or poor condition. If utility companies are doing work in those roads, again, they may either have a very low fee or no fee. In many cases, again, we want to be fair to utility companies. And again, there's a lot of components that will need to be considered.

Fascinating. Thank you very Thank you, Chair.

I see no other questions. Thank you, gentlemen, for the presentation. I did have one question. There was a truck checkpoint this last week on Central Avenue in which there were 57 handed out. You mentioned the use of these roads for unintended purposes. I would imagine big rigs driving up and down the roads being one of them. Do we plan to continue these checkpoints? It seems like it was a great success. Is that something?

Thank you, vice chair. This is Nathan Mustafa with Public Works. They do plan the police department to continue enforcement, the frequency and the extent of which is an update better delivered by them. But I did see that it was very effective. And as part of the upcoming general plan update, we're required by a recent state law AB 98 to adopt truck routes in the city. So that's something that we're gonna be assessing in detail as part of the circulation element update of the general plan. And as Alex mentioned during his presentation, we're gonna be calculating thicker roadway sections to better contend with the projected use of trucks on those truck routes.

Thank you. Commissioner Ward.

Thank you, Vice Chair Vandenberg. So I I do have a couple couple of questions, and thank you for that really excellent report. I think you provided a lot of really great metrics that really show the disparity between what is needed and what our actual spending right now is. You know, you mentioned in the report, it showed that we had $6,000,000 in the overages, which I guess is the surplus for the PNP fund. Are are there any particular, like, policy recommendations that can be made to say, like, if there are overages that that just goes directly back into the PNP fund rather than going into some of these other funds so that we can try to mitigate how much more we need to take from other parts of the budget to fund this fund?

Yeah, those are actually were deficits, not overages. So yeah, yes. So they were taking off from the twenty five million and basically for this fiscal year, they reduced our paving projects to 20,000,000, to around 20,000,000. So it was just overages on other projects cost by inflation and then cost by several projects that we did, the whole lake fencing and cleanup project. Yeah.

So we earmarked some money for that. And then we have the Iowa grade separation that we need to pay this state back. So that $66,000,000 is for actually overages on those projects that were taken down from the paving

Okay, okay.

Thank you for that clarification. And in the chart where you showed the drop in the quality for some of the excellent roads to the very poor and failed conditions. How long does it take for a section of excellent road to to go from that excellent quality to the poor or very poor quality?

The life of a road, say maybe a new road could, asphalt, if you barely construct it, it could be up to twenty five years. But this is a whole new road with good base. But when we resurface you realize that it's not a new road. That we take from the top one inch and a half and then we just add a new surface. I'd say the life of that is no more than ten years. Sometimes less. The problem being is the traffic loading. Like I mentioned, these streets were not designed for the type of loading that we see now. So sometimes people would think that hey, this is a new resurface road. It's gonna last twenty years.

But now it's more like a ten year period for a resurface road. Now if we do a full death reclamation where we use the existing pavement and actually put in a whole new base section and a whole new four inch section of asphalt, then that road itself could be twenty five, thirty years. So we have to see what we're doing out there and realistically how long the life of these roads

And are gonna thank you for that. And when you're responding to you know, some of these roads that are in these extremely poor conditions, you know, you mentioned those two different scenarios right there. What scenario do you usually pursue? Is it the ten year option or is it that other more complicated option?

Yes. If it's completely failed, the right thing to do is completely gut out the road, add a new base section and a new asphalt section. So it will cost up to three to four times as much as a resurfacing. And when we see a slurry seal it's a lot cheaper. It's say a quarter of a cost of a resurfacing.

So the more you have to do, the lower the PCI, it's more expensive. So that's why we want to focus on preservation, on sealing. Sometimes that's not the most popular option because if you go out there and you see slurry seals when traffic drives on them, it creates a mark right away because it's just a seal and it's just to protect the pavement. And some people think they get a resurfacing so that's where it gets a little know a little confusing for the public. But our intent is to preserve the actual street from water damage.

So whenever we could do preservation that's you know, on good streets that's what we push for. But you know there's a lot of bad streets out there that we also want to take care of. So it's hard with the current budget to balance everything.

Right, Of course. Another question about just how you're making some of these investments with some of the materials. Talked to mister Hernandez a few weeks ago at one of our forums about the material, the asphalt rubber aggregate membrane, I guess, arum. And I'm wondering, you know, what would what would your insights be on how we're utilizing that to resurface some of the roads that might be ten years for that resurfacing? Like, how much more would that increase the lifespan of a road that utilizes this type of asphalt as opposed to a more standard version?

Right. So yes, we use Aram quite a bit here in the city which is recycled tire. And it's a small inner layer between the old surface and the new surface. And what this does, it creates a layer that prevents water intrusion from mainly from groundwater, being in Riverside where we have a high groundwater table. And I think, honestly, would, sources say it adds another five years to our pavement.

I've seen pavement that is like ten years old and you go out there and it has a ram and you can see the cracks but the important part is that the seal is there. So just to answer your question, maybe it adds another five years. So maybe go from ten to fifteen. That's why we use it. We've seen, we've used it for a while to see that the results have been positive. So we continue using the program and then the state also offers grants for that we'll probably be pursuing next year for using this type of product.

Okay. So just to be clear, increases it from that baseline of 10 to maybe 15?

Yeah. Possibly. Okay.

That's good to know. Okay. Yeah. Mean, I guess I'll just say that, you know, I hope that the budget engagement commission at some point, maybe not at this meeting, but maybe at another meeting, could maybe agenda something where we are creating some tangible action and some recommendations to the city council so that we can get our PCI up because I think in this situation that we're in, it's just a cyclical thing where we're just constantly trying to react to this backlog and, you know, we're just kind of running around chasing our tail. So I'm hopeful that before the next budget cycle, we can really prioritize some of the Measures e spending to more heavily invest into our road repaving.

Thank you. Thank you for that.

Commissioner Benavides.

Thank you, Mr. Vice Chair Bandenburg. Ditto to Commissioner Ward's comments. I was going to address similar matters. Curiosity, and this could be for any one of you folks to respond. I use rideshare quite often. And this morning, I was on Van Buren from the 02:15 going towards the 91. And my driver was like, what's going on? And we were stop and go. And I go, what's happening?

He goes, oh, there's a guy moving a cone. Okay. Heard that before. In previous rides, always ask drivers, let me know if there's any signs on the road that notify motorists for whatever reason. Once in a while, I get, oh, this one's going to be paved from X day to next week, etcetera, etcetera, informing motorists.

I'm assuming that's from your department. But my question is, what what strategies are used when you go out to the corner of walk and don't walk to pave in regards to when do you select the time of day for that work which would least least impact peak traffic times.

Was it a city of Riverside work or or Caltrans? It was city

of No. I don't know. I I

You're out in the freeway?

Up in the actually, we're in Van Buren.

Oh, on Van Buren.

So must've been city.

Oh, okay. Our Whenever we bid out a project on our special provisions, we indicate times and usually it's after rush hour and you know both ends but sometimes you gotta give the contractor enough time to be out there and work at least eight hours. So our working hours are usually from 08:00 to end up to three, 3PM. They should be out. That sometimes doesn't it's not too great with school times.

So we ask the contractor, you know, when you're working around at school, you know, be diligent. Reduce your work hours and things like that. But sometimes the contractors kinda do their thing and they want to increase productivity. But yeah, we try to limit them. But at the same time we have to let them work.

Well thank you for that. There's pending rain coming up, it adjusts your schedules accordingly?

Yes, yes. So that delays the construction projects and pushes all the schedules. Even if the rain is projected, it slows them down. Won't schedule work.

Thank you.

You're welcome.

Okay, no further questions. This was a receive and file report, so no vote needed. Thank you very much.

Thank you. Take care everyone.

Finance director Christy Thomas, do you have an update for us?

I do, thank you. So our budget engagement meetings are still occurring, our community engagement, excuse me. Getting the commission stuck in my head. But we have ongoing community engagement meetings related to the development of the next biannual budget tonight. You can actually make it from this meeting.

It's at 7PM. It's at the Arlensa Community Center at 7950 Philbin Avenue. And tonight's meeting is for Police, Fire, and Housing and Human Services. And we will wrap up this community engagement methodology next week on Wednesday, November 19 at 6PM at the Joyce Jackson Community Center at 5505 Dewey Avenue with Public Works and Community and Economic Development. And then one final update, I have announced announced my retirement, so I will be departing at the December.

Congratulations. I do have a master calendar for commission requested items. And so for December, we've got Measure Z engagement requested by commissioner Wagner. We've got a bylaw overview requested by Sean Murphy and a police report budget impact compared to other cities regarding crime levels requested by commissioner Weinrich. In January, we're getting a fire report requested by AIRA.

February, CalPERS report requested by Commissioner Ward. To be determined, an export economy compared to other cities requested by Commissioner Ward and to be determined, a cannabis update. Do we have any other items for future BEC consideration?

I have a request. I am going to be unable to make the December meeting. Am I able to request the item that you just mentioned for December either be rescheduled for January or February?

Which item?

Would be the energy engagement.

Engagement. Yes.

We can grant that request? Excellent. Okay. Thank you. Any other requests? Commissioner Benavides?

Yeah. Thank you. I noticed a couple of things, regarding two items. The drones that were purchased through Measure Z funds and the recent establishment of services to people with disabilities at our parks. And in both of these examples I'm bringing up, they generate income.

The fines that were posed on folks lighting fireworks illegally in our city generated, I think we were told, 95,000,000, which exceeded the amount that this commission recommended for drones. And I discovered recently that the therapeutic programming offered to people with disabilities at our parks, folks that attend, and I'm not sure if I agree with it, but are charged to participate in the Measure Z sponsored funds that this body approved in 2024. So guess what I'm asking is, is there a policy that enables the city to use measures E funds and generate income as the ones I described. I'm not sure if that's agenda item. Yeah.

I mean, if yes. It's fairly new. I'm assuming that. I don't know. But that would be just my recommendation, mister chairman.

Christie, you're looking at me. That fall under our purview? Is that something we can ask to be added?

Unfortunately we can't discuss that tonight. So I can't answer it in this purview. I would recommend that when we do the Measures Z spending plan review early in the calendar year, perhaps we can answer those questions at that time, if that would work for you.

Mr. Pete, that works for you?

Yeah. That's fine.

Thank you. Very good. And if that is all, our next regular Budget Engagement Commission meeting is scheduled for Thursday, December 11, and it is 05:51. This meeting is adjourned.

Way to go, Jay. Thank you.