Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

we'll call the March 20 2025 Reno County Planning Commission meeting to order staff will you please call the role nisy here stran schaer Selzer here Macklin here Martin here gson here welcome to everyone we have a new new member of our board welcome Keith ke we're going to kind of give give introductions would you do mind just short and quick and to the point just give us a little background here I am I'm Keith nley I live in h Partridge Kansas got a family four kids wife and four kids uh own a business and Pleasant View Fairview service and uh keeps me busy most of the time welcome I'm Jack Martin been on here five years or something four years anyway okay Harley I'm I'm Harley mcklin I'm uh grew up in the Hutchinson Area but left after education and was gone for 57 years and then came back to home and this is my um starting my seventh year on this Planning Commission and I've learned a lot from each of us and I'm sure you will be learning a lot from each of us as your time goes on so welcome you thank you Steve Steve sord know you Keith y I'm not going to my background been been in Hudson M County area for 40 some years and on this board for long too too long what six seven six years how many terms do we get three three three years this my third train terms I've got y yep I've been on here

about seven years eight years Russ gson I live over in the ber area I've been on the on this board I'm in I'm in my third term too Y in my eighth year so all Echo what Harley says learned a lot in the eight years it's it's a it's an interesting board to be on for sure we welcome you thank you uh in our packets I trust you've had a chance to uh review the minutes from the February Planning Commission meeting chair will entertain a motion chairman I move for approval of the minute of that meeting as submitted second and moov in second any discussion all in favor of approving those minutes say I I I oppose same sign minutes are approved defend the Supreme Court court has defined a re a conditional use permit public hearing as a quasi judicial function to ensure the rights of all parties of interest and to provide an opportunity for each party to address the Planning Commission in an orderly manner the Planning Commission will follow the fact finding procedure which is outlined in the handout in each chair your attention to this procedure is appreciated if a recommendation is made tonight that recommendation will be based upon the record of information presented to the Planning Commission the County Commissioners will not conduct a separate public hearing or accept additional written documents the County Commissioners will consider written requests for additional public comment or documents based only on valid claims that the public hearing process was incomplete or based upon new information which has become available since a public hearing for purposes of this County Commission policy a public hearing is considered incomplete only if

the Planning Commission failed to follow its procedural guidelines which resulted in a denial of due processed to a party of Interest or if the Planning Commission failed to allow an interested party an opportunity for public comment for purposes of the of the County Commission policy new information shall pertain only to Germaine information which did not exist at the time of the public hearing for which was unknown or could not have been discovered with reasonable diligence an example may be a traffic study completed after the Planning Commission recommendation the Planning Commission recommend ation to the County Commissioners will accom will be accompanied by a summary of proceedings before the Planning Commission at its public hearing along with the report and recommendations of the county planner letters informal petitions and other information constituting the record of proceedings provided to the Planning Commission before and during the public hearing if the Planning Commission makes a recommendation after tonight's public hearing this case will be presented to the County Commissioners at their next available meeting after the protest period EXP Ires County Planning staff contact County Planning staff or visit the website for the county commissioner agenda items any party who wishes to require the County Commissioners decide this case by a super majority vote May file protest position petition pursuant to KSA 12757 at the office of the Rea County Clerk 125 West 1 Avenue Hutchinson Kansas within 14 days following the decision by the Planning Commission the form is on the Reno County website planning department web page I'll now formally open the public hearing regarding case number 202-02 a request by Reno Township of Reno County for a conditional use permit to establish a Township headquarters for equipment storage a meeting Hall and a

stockpile location on a parcel land Zone R3 single family residential district the property is located at 2806 West 4th Avenue have any Planning Commission members had any outside contacts regarding this case no no do any planning Commissioners have any conflict of interest in this case no no will the applicant please come to the podium state your name and address for the record you have 10 minutes to present your case additional time may be allotted to the to the applicant at the discretion of the chair Planning Commission members May request clarification at the end of your presentation or may have questions okay I'm Jason tedar live here in South Hut I'm the treasurer on the Reno Township so we we passed we had a uh an election or a ballot question to purchase this property and that passed overwhelmingly and uh so we're now we're trying to build a building to house the motor graders cuz the doors are not quite tall enough to get the motor graders in the old this the old fire station at forth and Wellshire so that's the so we're going to build a build a building in between the old Roundtop and the fire station so that's the it's going to be a 50x50 building so yeah right here's the building like I say here's the old fire station right here here's Fourth Street so right here's the proposed building uh this is existing Roundtop um there's I think four and a half acres there so we'll have a stockpile area here there is a water well but it's for irrigation um and then the actual drinking water wells inside the building and then over here is the septic

tank um it's pretty straightforward on what we're trying to do this building so we're going to our me our meetings are going to be held in the fire station and we had our first meeting last Thursday so um have any other questions this equipment that you want to store in there where is that equipment stored now so currently our address is 601 North Hendrick it's right across from the State Building in between fourth and fifth and that's actually in the city limits and so that was one of the things was to get out in the actual Township so I'm sure when they put that building up back in the 40s or 50s that was in the township and then as time goes on the city annexes annexed it in so and this is more Central located to our Township so is the equipment presently stored out of doors or is it so we so we still own the building the 601 North Hendrick and some motor graders are there and all the other equipment is out here in the Roundtop and here in the fire station so this building will only house the two motor graders so you're going to have a lot of other equipment stored Out of Doors oh well it's still under it's still undercover so it's in this we have a like a wheel back ho and a loader and a dump truck which is stored in this Roundtop and then here we've got a little our our pickup and a little mini excavator so the only equipment that we would not have so we got to have this building here to park the motor graders so they'll be undercover but everything else is undercover is that a preposition to build a building cuz the building's

already have a chance I apologize no you're fine you're fine uh okay full electricity water what what all are you get tell tell us a little bit about the building let's it um so the building it's it's going to be insulated uh no water uh and we are going to have gas for heating so yeah no like say yes on electricity yes on natural gas no on water so you winter Heats for the winter time keep your graders warmed up so roll yeah so we don't have problems geling up we can get out and clean the roads I get you and you know this year we've actually had to had to do that the last couple years we have not okay I have a question on yes I read just a little bit about as far as fencing and screening is it or do the trees kind of block where you're going to put your piles and stuff yeah so so there's actually there's there's a line of trees here and a line of trees here and then in front they have like the oh that welded C cattle panels along the front for the fence and then here's just like a it's a broke down old kind of a cheap fence or but yeah those trees those trees are uh kind of hiding everything from from the from the west and from the north from the north okay yeah what type of material will be in the stun pile area so that'll mostly be the dirt that we dig out of the ditches so when when we go out and you know rebuild a road most of that dirt gets washed off into the ditch so we'll go clean those ditches what dirt we don't put back on the road we haul off to the

stockpile area for when it floods then we can then we have material to go rebuild the road which kind of outside of that okay talk about rock deliveries that kind of thing what do you anticipate with that that sort of activity um we we mostly only use road gravel and dirt um we every once in a while we get some rip wrap and we usually take that right to Pennington and dump in the big ditch um because yeah we once they load it up it's hard to dump it and reload it so we usually you don't plan on stockpiling any gravel here it's just mainly the no so did you pull yeah so uh like currently we stockpile maybe two dump truck loads of clay balls mostly because with the clay balls they're all wet and we got to we put them in the yard and we turn them a couple times to get them to dry out before we take them to the road just so it's not doesn't turn into a swamp they are they are slick but they're super good once they get hard so yeah the stockpile area mostly it'll be dirt so it's not like you're going to have thousands of tons of sitting there you're going to it's going to be we're not going to have we're not just enough to kind of kind of top a road if you need to that kind of thing will there be staff stationed at that location all the time so no we have we have three three employees we have two full-time and one part-time uh the two full-time employees run the motor graders and the part-time guy will run the mowing tractor for to mow the ditches in the township uh we do have posted on the door on the front door to the fire station we have phone numbers to the to the township employees and to to the members so if there's any questions everyone has a cell phone now and uh

like I say we we also have our sign posted out front for meeting times because that needs to be posted also any other questions for the applicant I have on staff has some questions I'm the director of Public Works so it makes me the director of Planning and Zoning I have a question you're here for a proposal to build a building and a permit to get that and the buildings the building's already built can you explain after me um so Ruben Miller called us and said he had an opening and we took it so yes that's that's what we did so do you realize you needed a permit before you built that um yeah we started the paperwork to get the permit and Ruben had a opening so so you realize that probably wasn't the right path yes I understand that that was that that's what that's what we did that's probably not the probably was not the best choice at the time but thank you understand why we ask those kind of questions you're not the first one to come here with the building already built or partially built before come before so we'll keep asking those kind of questions no no yeah that's fine I mean so on the other hand we did have the boote which was approved overwhelming to spend the money to do this and that's good but to have the permit to build that building goes

through here and you get the permit through more and you should have had that permit before you built that building with a permission from this uh commission to use that land use for that building that's something building contractors should know about but they seem not to know all the time or choose not to choose not to yeah sure okay any other questions for the that well actually the rezonings for to even be there so yes regardless of a bu new building or not right say that again I'm sorry it is the resoning so they can even have correct their operation there the conditional use permit is to have the land the building the building is is secondary the first part is to have the land use of a township hall on that property yeah any other questions thank you since there's no other questions for the applicant we now hear from the Planning Commission Staff Mark by action count planner and so to help Orient everybody we are on West Fourth Avenue right there at the intersection of Willshire ride that goes north so we're just a few miles or less outside the city of Hutchinson and so this property as you can see is own R3 prior to that as you heard testimony it was an old city of Hutson fire station

and so at that time it was a legal use under our old zoning regulations 2016 we changed our our regulations and our zoning District so this property is now zoned U residential because we don't have commercial industrial or say public type of zoning out there uh after the fire station uh was determined to not be useful for the city it was sold to another party who actually operated an illegal business out of that that property right there never did come into conformance and then it's since been sold to the township for a proposed uh Town Hall allall I'd like to put on record that you know I spoke to uh an employee of the township like a few months ago about the need to get a permit for the building but also the need for that conditional use permit and I didn't hear anything on this until you see the submitt date when he did that on on February 5th so that just delayed that whole entire process this hearing could have been held potentially in February and probably in time before the building was actually uh going to be under construction didn't find out the building was under construction until I went out to the property this morning and just to kind of get an idea of the area and I I noticed that the building was already under construction and so plus there's other equipment out there and like I said right now it's not even legal to be you know out there but they are in that process of trying to get this uh into a conforming type of use as you can see from from the area you got an agricultural field to the east so there's no houses there the small property that is Zone R2 uh there are no structures on that property either uh to the West you have a residential area large Lots further to the West along Bloomville you do have some smaller smaller residential lots right to the south on across the street from them is really uh an industrial type of land use it's a junkyard it's been there for many

many decades and then the rest of the area uh to the east is then additional residential uh properties and so you got mainly a a residential area this type of land use could potentially be a lot better than any type of other Comm uh commercial types of land uses that could potentially go you know in there which is what's operating there prior to the township purchasing this uh as you heard testimony there the proposals that hold their Town Hall meetings there also do the stockpiling of of equipment and of dirt for that property the stockpile area will be to the north as you can see in the pictures that I took the um equipment will be stored kind of in that Hoop Building plus also the new building you know as well when we look at the related uh land uses that we have to consider on that the one I want to highlight would be the the parking area IID asked the applicant to submit a a parking plant since they are holding town uh meetings at this facility we need to have places for the public to par uh this is a closer view of the area I'll go back to that I thought I had one of the parking plan did I miss it I might missed it I don't have that in the slide uh the parking area was slated to be out in the uh front of those two buildings out there I think maybe it's in your packet but I don't have a slide of that so and looking at that 100 by 100 area I calculated just on the perimeter that they could potentially store up to 40 cars there that seemed like that would maybe be okay for a Township meeting I don't know how how many you know people attend the township meeting but that doesn't include the areas that would be in the interior of that big square but I think you know as a board when you look at that that sight plan there if you think you want something a little bit better

it's within your prerogative to to request that before you would recommend approval of that uh but essentially the area out in front of of those buildings is all kind of a dirt or gravel type of surface right now and that's where plan on having the public park uh our requirements here in in the regulations don't require any kind of permit for a sign so long it's not located near that intersection of uh 4th Avenue and Willshire so uh no permits required for that we don't have any type of landscaping requirements so long as it doesn't get included within the conditional use permit I do have other pictures as I flashed you know across the screen but the West property line and the north proper line does have a a pretty significant type of tree road that could act as a a screening for their stop pile area you heard testimony from Mr tedar that you know they're not planning on storing tons and tons of of gravel or or dirt on that property but you can certainly recommend uh additional screening if you see so fit with the conditional use permit no fencing requirements we would have a concern if they wanted to put some type of different fence again near that intersection we'd have some sight triangle concerns and so if they propose changing that existing fence or extending it further to the South that Public Works would like to be able to look at that to make sure we don't have any Vision issues with uh the public and the traveling people going east west and then north south at that intersection the last part of my report will discuss the uh factors that you need to consider when you're making any type of recommendation on a conditional use permit um I think you can read through through those here I looked at this mainly about uh the character of the neighborhood again you're looking at

a mainly residential area but the nature of our zoning regulations is such that any type of commercial land use could potentially go in there with an approved conditional use permit I think having this as a township hall is going to be a similar type of use as it would be when it was a fire station so I believe that the the land use would be considered appropriate for this area so based off of that staff is recommending approval of the conditional use permit uh based off of the 10 factors that you see listed in the staff report um I'll kind go through the slides right quick to kind of give you an idea of what the the area looks like you've looked at this one uh pretty much the whole presentation here but you can see where the existing buildings are where the proposed building that you now see is already constructed is going to be located on the property and also the stockpile area this is just kind of a little of a blow up area a little bit better better shot of where that building is located situated behind the the main Town building and in front of the other uh Hoop Building seem to be an aerial photo looking North at the property you can see the the residential area like I say to the South is is the uh junkyard little AIT closer view of the property you can see the uh the tree row on the North side and along the west side of the property little bit closer view kind of showing the the junkyard that's across the street there and then this is the actal GOOG shot of the property back in June of 2022 it looks pretty much the same there

now this should be looking West at the the existing building again from June of 22 so you can see the existing um buildings that are on the property now looking further north on the property but again looking West um so further north along Willshire but looking West there's kind of where their stockpile area is going to look and B then across the street that's the Salvage y the house is no longer uh on the property that was removed so it's mainly an industrial type of land use so there there pictures my five conditions of approval I have listed in the staff report for your uh consideration is approve of the plan of operation and S plan dated February the 5th uh the parking area shall be constructed as indicated on the parking site plan storage of vehicles industrial Machinery or the stockpile of materials not owned by Reno Township is prohibited without a new conditional use permit or compliance with the zign regulations I think this one was important because you know we don't want to have a situation where we have a storage yart for citizens to come and just be able to park park their vehicles or stockpile their own materials on this this supposed to be a Township property and Township operations out there if they want to get into that type of of land use then I believe that that should warrant a new conditional use PR hearing because that's not what the intent of this property is has been uh laid out the applicant shall meet all Apple Federal state local regulations and then lastly is the county count reserves the right to resend the conditional use permit if they are not following any

kind of conditions of approval set ASI by this this board so with that I would stand for any questions uh we did not have any comments from the public other than the Hutchinson fire department who had no issues with this request I got a question mark wondering you don't feel that there's any need for any kind of fencing around that property to kind of provide maybe the applic with a little more less liability for people that might wander on there unauthorized and with stock piles and Equipment sheds and whatnot from a county perspective no I I think the liability issue should be something the township should really look at and consider uh I don't know if we need to um on one side the other side it's just a jump fence or something you referenced I think yeah it's it's just a pipe fence like that okay so there there's a gate there I believe now uh so that there's your fencing right there okay um is there now if they feel like there's something uh warranted then I think that should be maybe up to them rather than mandating that through a conditional use permit what when you reference the um parking site plan what is the parking site plan there should be another uh map in your packet I believe it's not a very good drawing of it but kind of shows the parking area I should have made it into the packet I didn't I didn't make a slide of it was submitted after I produce this just a slight line see it

Mr I did include it did I not yeah okay it has a parking plan hand on top yeah I see it yeah there's just a slight line I just I just I overlay it little I drew a line right in front of B it basically is in front of that round existing Roundtop and the supposed building and it goes covers that graveled area there better than I do the best area that's like have a little doing the measurements you know from him it's 100 by 100 area not square but Square yeah I see it I think the most important thing is to ensure that all the parking would be on the property and not you parking in the right parking in the RightWay or along the street on another road or parking elsewhere I mean I we don't want to have people parking all over the property we want to know kind of where the parking lot uh is going to be on on that property it looks like parking is pretty much in that drive area to that closet by and did I understand there might be as many as 30 or four car 40 cars show up there for a public me no I I had estimated that that 100 by 100 area would be able to store 40 cars along the perimeter of that that parking area uh I did not mean to infer that there's going to be 40 40 vehicles or 40 people parking in that area at one time but it could potentially hold that many cars based off of what we require for a parking space so maybe it's appropriate to ask the the applicant how large a group how many people going to come there for a public meeting so I've been on the board

I've been on on the Township board for eight years the largest group we had I think was six people so and they all drove separate and we all drove separate so there was about 12 cars that that satisfies my concern yeah I think that's fine but I don't think you can assume that that that's always going to be be the case if there's you know a concern with that but it's it's it's much like our meetings here we could have three people in the audience or we could have 300 right potentially and so so looking at that area and doing a calculation based off of just the perimeter and not having parking spaces in on the interior of that square you know I'm calculating that there could be 40 cars just lined up along that perimeter of that square then you can add a few more in the center there so I would think that that many spaces should be adequate for for their intent okay awesome any other questions for staff thank you the applicant have anything more to say many any back up back up public comments sorry I got ahead of myself is there anyone in the audience who would like to comment in this case you may have five minutes to comment please come forward to the podium at at at a time and state your name and address for the record before commenting audience members are only permitted to address the Planning Commission from the podium audience members are permitted only one time at the podium in the interest of time if you agree with comments previously made please don't repeat the comments simply state that you agree with the previous comments and then present new information information to the Planning Commission statements and questions should only be directed to the Planning Commission not the

applicant or staff the Planning Commission may choose not answer questions or engage with the public questions regarding the application can be asked to the Planning Commission and answered by the applicant during the rebuttal phase of this public hearing is there anyone here that like to come in like to introduce myself I'm Brandon Harmony I'm a neighboring community of the township request um I kind of want to ask you guys first is this uh sorry I'm really nervous I haven't been to a meeting before but uh is this meeting really necessary if we're not following the guidelines of permits established first so as a neighboring landowner I wanted to of The Wanted Township headquarters I'd like to request or propose a negotiation um about two years ago we moved out of the country or city limits to kind of get away from the frequent disturbances of the city and having the neighboring parcel to request the head quarters means that there will be more disturbances within our area with large vehicles coming in and out um and to respect privacy I'd be willing to agree with the township headquarters um if the township would upkeep and maintain the tree row and fencing between the neighbors uh neighboring properties we have uh animals and livestock in that Northeast part of the I'm in r314 we have uh animals and livestock on the Northeast section uh along the fence line there of the neighboring Town shed and would like to request the upkeep of the trees to maintain privacy and protection for them anything else no thank you appreciate what type of livestock do you

have in there um donkeys chickens we will eventually have cows um chickens chickens can go through that you oh we have them pretty secured you if you drive by you you'll tell that we can we have them pretty well secured worried about that fence falling into disrepair at some point yeah the the tree rows the tree rows are kind of falling apart there's several trees that are dying and rotted out that have fallen apart you couldn't tell in the pictures because that was a year or two ago when summer was full bloomed but if you drive by now you can tell that there are trees down and there is exposure for from that property to the township so you would like that they clean that up or M upkeep and maintain the tree Row for privacy yeah that you mean like planting new trees Tre down yeah planting new trees which parcel of ground are you on uh the West straight west of there m may be section there okay any other questions thank you very much appreciate it okay does the applicant have any uh wish to rebut any statements made you you may have two minutes additional time maybe a lot by the by the chair if needed Planning Commission may have additional questions yeah I like to say so you want to hop up to the voting for so maintaining the trees wouldn't be an issue the only thing that we probably need to do is have a actual survey because like say I own I own our this this one this one and this one and I removed trees here and I had the sheriff's out there every day so we probably need to get a actual survey on

that line before we remove trees but I have no problem we can move trees and take care of trees that's not an issue we just got to we just need to get our aign I think the the individual was more concerned about losing the trees maintaining the shielding for privacy that in there for privacy either way we probably need to have that line established so so we know where where who property the trees are wrong yes yes yeah that's so that's the and yeah we're more than happy to work with you on you know if we need to plant trees or you know do what we need to do but we just need to for sure have that line EST established before we where any action is taken yeah understood but yeah like I said we can you haven't had the property surveyed when you purchased it no we did not have it surveyed but like I said we can I can get that we probably get that accomplished here at our next meeting I don't see an issue with getting the surveyor out there and getting that line established so so then we can yeah I mean we want to be as neighborly as possible yeah okay staff do you have anything any more anything to add I have nothing Mr chairman does this commission have any further questions for the applicant or the staff the public hearing is now closed acceptance or denial of rezone or conditional use permit must be based on the factors that are listed in the staff report and found on the audience chairs this is time for a Planning Commission can disc discuss this case and ask procedural questions of Staff only there any further discussion on this on this

case I can fully understand why they wanted to move to a newe location so that out of the city to have their Township facility going back to Dan Don's point you know that the building was put up before the the request was made permit everything you know that's that seems to be a recurring theme we're running into and I don't know somehow we have to figure out a way to educate the public and the contractors particularly the contractors I think on these requirements because these guys are going out and putting up these buildings you we do we do turn them down once in a while and we had one guy had started building one and we said no and he had to move his posts and everything else you know so you run a risk by doing it that way um so it's a it's unfortunate but it does happen and and it's just a matter of Education I guess somehow agree I'll I'll add on I understand the an the the anxious anxiousness to be able to move to a new place oh yes yes and and spread your wings but that uh it's unfortunate that we have even a governing body that did not follow the rules that's that's that's probably as big a disappointment as that's not uncommon though no but run into that many times over my career so nonetheless but anyway okay any other discussion if not chairman will entertain a motion on this case Mr chairman I move the case number 20252 the request by renal Township request a conditional use permit from Neno County zoning regulations to establish a Township headquarters

Township Meeting Hall and stockpile location for road building materials on a partial land zoned R3 single family residential district be approved based on the 10 factors and five conditions of approval listed in the staff report as heard at this public hearing Mr chairman I second that motion been moved and seconded is there any discussion on the motion seeing none staff please call the R so just to clarify the the motion is to approve yes we use per that's correct okay n can I ask one quick question is a yes an approval yes is approval yes just want to make sure no that's fair enough fair enough nisley yes seler yes Macklin yes Martin no gson yes motion carries yep all right I'll be in contact with uh the applicant on when this will be heard by the the County Commission not another public hearing but it'll just be a report for me on the proceedings of this meeting and then that will be the the final uh decision on this case okay thank you okay next item of business uh I'll kind of give it BL some groundwork with this our since we have uh two members gone today we probably won't go into depth of in this discussion but Mark would you go ahead and kind of give us a background of what

our next next project is now that we've completed solar regulations I think it's time to move forward with our next text Amendment you know if no rest or anything like that let just keep uh keep going and so um what you have in front of you is a copy of Article 13 and I didn't take the time to write a Planning Commission memo or so I thought it'd be better just to kind of talk about it introduce maybe what we're going to be looking at here and then in the coming months we can start kind of maybe formulating some some ideas and some thoughts on on the future directions so uh this is going to be kind of a two-fold type of text Amendment what I mean by that is we'll be amending the zoning regulations but it's also going to be related to our agricultural lot split uh Amendment which I believe is the number one type of amendment that I this board kind of directed staff and believes it is the next priority on our our list so rather than try and you know put all that memo form I thought I said it'd be easier to talk about it um agricultural lot splits and all lot splits for that matter is what we call an administrative type of procedure it doesn't involve this Planning Commission uh to Grant approval of a lot split or an agricultural lot split um so I know we do have Homestead lot splits which we've done in the past that does require your approval but all other types of splits uh do not require your approval and so you may not know all that goes into something like that and so with if you got property in an agricultural district and you would like to split off a portion of that for a another residence then the regulations will limit you to something between three and seven acres only so for example if you have a 40 acre parcel of ground you cannot split that into two 20 acre

Parcels you cannot split that into a 10 acre and a 30 acre um can't all you can do is 3 to seven acres for the new house and then you have the remnant par so which would be less than 40 obviously but still eligible for a house if there's not a house on there already so that standard two houses per 40 acres was set by previous Planning Commission members and previous County Commissioners as standard that and the density that we want to see in the agricultural District absent of a rezone and a Subdivision plat where you could potentially go obviously greater than those uh two houses per 40 so along with that split there's there certain requirements that you have to have to be able to split off that 37 acre partial those requirements are listed in Article 13 and part of those is that you have a lot width to lot depth ratio of no greater than three to one now in our regulations it will say that if you want to do one of these agricultural lot splits it has to uh be treated as a residential parcel so it's a 3:1 split that we um ratio that we have in there so you can't you can't do something that is um you know 165 ft by 700 ft or 200 ft by 900 ft you know if you have 200 ft of Frontage the maximum you can go is that's the 600 if you want something larger than that then you got to give me more Road front you got to go up to 250 and then you're allowed to expand that depth out further up to that 3:1 ratio so that worked really well so the background behind that was that we previously had a lot of concerns from Farmers that wanted to

sell their original Farmhouse uh but didn't want to do 10 acres you know CU they want to keep their Farm ground for their income and so we came up with this agricultural lot split concept where now they can just split off say three acres or five acres around their house and keep the majority of their Farm ground as their retirement income which is typically was the case here that worked good for a lot of years and now it seems like the pendulum is kind of swinging back the other way where people are wanting larger acreages than just the you know three or five acres if the farmer wanted to split off on the original house and so it's created a lot of of issues and what what it's doing right now is it's it's creating people and surveyors that are going to give me a s acre split but they really want 10 acres or 15 acre parcel and so what they'll do is they'll create an illegal 5 AC split behind them by separate legal descriptions so we got a 7 acre split to build their new house on and then behind the house we're going to have like an additional five acres that's going to be considered like an illegal parcel well you know they can never build on it you can't do anything with it you can't you can't sell it separately or anything like that but it's an illegal land Division and I know this is happening because I go back and I'll look at the parcel and how they're mapped and I'll see two separate Parcels here or you go back and you look look at the deeds and you'll see two separate Deeds filed where you got a 7 acre deed that met my regulations fine and you got like an additional 3 acres behind that legal description that's illegal because they really wanted 10 acres but the regulations prohibited them from having 10 acres in the egg and so they're creating two legal descriptions aren't they split in a partial three ways then technically yeah okay technically yes yeah all my information is going to show

a 7 acre split and that's what I'm approving but then you look at the records and oh yeah there's another split so yeah that's another split actually what actual money changed hands was for the two Parcels right yeah so it's a little it's a little shady that way that's going so you might clarify for us the once this once that seven acres is split off of the 40 that remaining 33 cannot get split any longer that's the last that's the only split that's allowed on that 40 acre Park so how are they splitting off that other five by separate legal description and not telling me not submitting anything they're not doing it the way they should be do okay that's why you call it illegal yes surveer come out down the state in the ground and the other guy buys that three extra three acres he's got 10 acres and he's happy and the guy who owns it is happy he sold 10 acres the the register deeds will record as two different properties because it meets their requirements they don't care about planning zoning okay they don't care if it meets their requirements then then they'll record it they have to of communication between County departments there um it's not necessarily that I mean you know I I know throughout my entire career 30 plus years you know we've fighting isn't the right word we we've we've questioned I guess registered you know Deeds on can you send the person to us we can talk to them to make sure that we have a legal partial that they can build on for zoning and to their you know their credit say well yeah we'd like to but as long as the deed meets their requirements they're mandated to record it and so and then that's that's why yeah because are those statutary requirements that they're referring to yeah I believe yeah if it meets their requirements for somebody to record a d that's fine and then when they come into to me to build on and I research it then ah you're not

building on that well why not well because it doesn't meet our zoning regulations yes I recorded it the register of e they took it because it met their requirements and then that's that's fine you know I mean that's that's how things get caught yeah I would you'd like to have that hey go go to playing and Zoning first but it doesn't work that way you know it doesn't work that way you know and and I get it you know I mean it meets their requirements so that's one concern with the width to depth you know issue is you know they want more acreage that also Al plays into the subdivision regulations requiring the maximum of 7 Acres so I know we've had preliminary discussions you know in the past on just eliminating that seven acres and we could do that but there's work to do I think in this article as well J we want to keep that with the depth ratio and because you look I mean it's the same thing like in the egg District it's a 4 to1 ratio so somebody had you know 100 acres 150 acres and they wanted to split off some of that yeah a a splits are are exempt but yet you still have to meet that 4:1 ratio if you want to build a house on that as well so what was the purpose of the the ratio in the first place yeah you know I know that's that question's been asked you know many of times here by people and you know it was it had to do with the width of depth they you know it had to do with like the width of depth but it also had to do with not creating flag Lots flag Lots flag Lots long long skinny Parcels that open up into uh you know a bigger bigger a 30ft driveway like a big driveway going into bigger yes yeah with with land owned by others along your driveway you know all all the width to

depth is based off like you look at the agricultural District it's 660x 660 then you go down to the residential it's 16 5 by 330 so it's half of what the a is and so on and so forth but but yeah the um the concern has always been on on the planning side is you have 10 acres and then they want to split that well if you only got 30 foot or 60 foot of Road Frontage you can't do it because we have a minimum Road Frontage requirement now it's 165 previously it was 60 and so it's creating issues where okay if you split that and sell off five acres behind your house where's your road Frontage well I've got like a little 20ft strip and it just didn't meet it just didn't meet PL it's not saying that it's not so you're saying right now you got a minimum of 165 ft Road Frontage to split just split yeah so so so the the thought with that is have further discussions for another time do we eliminate those do we change the road Frontage requirement do we go back to 60 do we go down to 100 do we leave it at 165 what what's the appropriate uh number there do we care at all you know uh used to be I think it or 1994 is when we first added a road furnit requirement in in the regulations previous to that you didn't have to have Road furn just give me a certain acreage and you're good to go 1994 we added the 60t road requirement out there so the the concern on flag Lots is like fire safety concerns or or what no well I mean fire safy you know we had a case several years ago you know on a long skinny tractor ground uh no I think you know the concern was always you know

somebody always being able to split that land again and split even though you had say 10 acres and it's a 3 Acre minimum you couldn't split it because you couldn't meet the road furnish requirements so here a person has 10 15 Acres that was a flag lot that was created maybe before zoning and they want to sell a portion of that because for whatever reason they can't do it because because they don't have the road Fage requirement so that's why we want to eliminate that the width to depth ratio uh put in place kind of solves that because it's going to make you develop a a square or rectangle type of a property and then if you ever wanted to split that that potential does exist and you still have proper Road fundage requirement so um the road fundage requirement just ensures that there's access to the property access yeah yeah so then along with that if you look in that what we would probably like to do is have a a further discussion on whether our setback requirements are appropriate when you've got an agricultural Zone partial your setbacks are 50 ft off of thead Road and 30 ft on all your other sides the residential districts your your setback off the road goes down to 30 and then it varies on the side and rear yard between 8 and 20 ft is there a reason for that should should they all be uniform or or not I think the question is always why is it that I've got 40 acres and I have to have a 50ft setback but the partial right next to me you saw it here tonight on the east side of of Wilshire you know you have a big Farm ground if that guy want to build a house it's 50 ft off the road but if the guy uh that owned that parcel in the corner if he want to build a house it's only 30 ft and they can sit side by side but the one in the egg has to be 20 foot further back so these are all questions if we want to change it

then what is the appropriate you know setback for all of them you know that way um keep in mind you know that we've got many many Parcels that are legal non-conforming meaning established even prior to our current zoning regulations they're they're a half acre they're quarter acre and so if you make your setbacks you know at at 20 ft and all of it at 50 ft you know you could be squeezing Property Owners from being able to get a decent area to build on as well won't affect septic well septic well can be put in the setback area uh but it does affect building sites so I think these are questions that we want have when we look at what we want to do ultimately with the a lot s and that 7 acre maximum so I'll stop at that point Don if you have thoughts or questions well I got a lot of thoughts but that's when we get started thoughts so when you hear from me it's just thoughts because I'm not a part of this commission but I'm staff can we get into things to think about when we get into the egg Lots splits I know we've had this 7 acre Max 3 to 7 acre thing for a while uh and if we change to you know what we've talked about is you know going up to like 39 Acres or whatever just do away kind of do away with that three to 3 to seven and open it up so somebody can split off whatever they want uh what about those poor souls that have already done an egg light slot split in the 3 to seven and they really would have liked to have had more or is there some way to go in and for them to have a one-time

option to increase that split bound what do you call it boundary adjustment or whatever you want to call it um that's a good question and a good thought yeah think that's something that as we work through this we would need to probably address [Music] because I think previously you know this board had discussion I know staff has that uh if we do away with that have a minimum say still needs to be a minimum three whatever you do if you want three acres and 37 or so you can certainly do that or if you want 20 and 20 you can do that but yeah what do we do with all the a lot splits that already have been processed and somebody maybe wanted more Anchorage are we going to allow one an additional split maybe we do maybe it's not for another home site but maybe the guy you wanted 10 acres or he wanted 20 acres but he can only get seven because of the fact that we had this in the regulations maybe we would allow him to do a one-time boundary adjustment acquire the additional acreage that he wanted to without creating another possibility of another home site on the property I mean that's one that's one thought off the top of my head a solution like that you have to write something somewhere in the r in the appropriate spot that says that if you had an approved a law split between 2016 and 2025 then you're allowed a one-time you know boundary judge subject to staff approval you know we wouldn't necessarily need to take to this another question then like on a boundary adjustment can that be done to existing Parcels even though you're not you say you've got a 10 acre square track and then you're thinking well maybe I want to sell this 10 acres but I really don't want to sell the square track I'd rather have it longer than can you do just a boundy adjustment like that without going through another it's not a split you're just adjusting the existing boundaries

you wind up with the same amount of land in each each track yeah you you can do as many boundary adjustments as you want to because if you don't know a boundary adjustment does not create a new parcel that you can build on a boundary adjustment is you buying 10 ft from your neighbor because you want his tree row or or you want to build a building uh in this location on your property and you can't because of a setback so you want to buy a certain area of his land to allow you to meet a setback requirement you're not creating a new building site so I I mean I've done uh boundary adjustments on Agland it's 40 acre piece and it's being divided up amongst the adjacent propor so one person gets 10 acres the other person gets 10 acres and the other guy gets 20 acres it's all a boundary adjustment they're not creating buildable site they're just adding a certain amount of acreage to their existing farm for example so all those are permitted changes the legal description of the land yeah so I think that's a good way to do it if you I my opinion is I agree that 40 acres should have only split once and I think that just like Mark said the minimum is 3 acres that allows somebody to build a house sheds septic system water 3 acres for or it can be anything beyond that 101 2020 337 but to make the people in the past that didn't have that option to have a boundary adjustment and now it's still only between two partial owners it doesn't create a third ownership for thinking they're going to build another house that's how to solve that yeah so what do you do if somebody has done a a a lock split and and but they have say 60 Acres

and they split off 10 so they have a 10 acre track and a 50 acre track so the 50 is greater can 4 than 40 can they still do another egg lot split on that 50 acres well you got to think what you said because they can't do a 10 acre split in the egg well you can only do seven yeah okay unless you're talking okay so if they did a seven and now they got 53 yeah can't split it can't split again you've done the one split yeah okay I'm going to have to jet I have an appointment a little bit so yeah great yeah I don't know how close are we to we're good we're just stuff around so these are things thing about what I would say homework for the board would be be thinking about you know setbacks be thinking about the lot width to depth ratio in there be thinking about the minimum acreage you know in the egg and then reference you know the it's article three I believe in the subdivision regulations talking about agriculture lot splits and the 7 acre and kind of how like Steve said what are we going to do with existing parcels and we may or may not get to it in April we can maybe have it on the agenda we got three cases in April to deal with uh but if there's time that there's you know an appetite for the war we can have further discussions with the full board next month good certain if you have thoughts on this email me and I can compile them and um we'll start trying to come up with something for you guys to to look at and and go from there I get the April cases done first good background appreciate that okay any other any other business before this board chair will entertain a motion to I move we adjourn moved in second to

adjourn all in favor of adjournment say I I oppose same sign you advanced notice leave