(1) Town Board - Regular Meeting

OK. Good evening, everyone. I want to welcome you to the Red Hook Town Board meeting of Tuesday, September 8, 2026. May I ask you once again to join me in the Pledge of Allegiance, please? I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Thank you all very much.

I hope you had a wonderful summer.

I know technically it's not over, but in many respects, it is. And Suzanne, if I could kindly ask you to pan over to the screen, please, so that we can show the folks what will be Because it's the first meeting of each month, we have both the supervisor's report and the clerk's report, snapshots of the financial condition of the municipality. We've got some announcements. We'll take some public comments for 15 minutes. Our agenda items are to entertain a resolution to re-bid the Salt Hill Bridge project. REBID THE PROJECT. MEANWHILE, WE RECEIVED GOOD NEWS ABOUT ADDITIONAL FUNDING FOR THAT PROJECT. WE HAVE A BOND RESOLUTION TO ENTERTAIN THAT GOES ALONG WITH THE BRIDGE PROJECT NOW THAT WE HAVE AN ESTIMATE. WE CAN'T AWARD THE PROJECT UNTIL WE HAVE A BOND RESOLUTION GO THROUGH THE PROCESS, SO WE NEED TO ENTERTAIN THAT NOW IF WE'RE GOING TO AWARD in the next few meetings. We have a resolution to accept a local records management grant. We want to thank both Alex Collins-Field, who has moved into a new position as the bookkeeper to the supervisor, and Ann Rubin, both for their work on applying for this records management. And we'll be talking about that briefly today. We have a notification from Office of Cannabis Management. That's what this acronym stands for. It's for the renewal application for upstate pines across the street here. And so we'll be discussing that. We put off to this meeting appointing a shelter to assign for Ag and Markets Law. Hopefully we'll hear from Kenny on that and update on that. Next up is a resolution to self-power sublease agreements. We have three self-service companies on our towers. And so one is coming up for renewal, another one soon thereafter, and then the third one in a couple of years. Resolution for inter-municipal agreement for shared service. This is a carryover. We've discussed. This is slightly different. We have had for many years an IMA with the county on shared services and equipment related to emergency response. I think winter storms is a good example. They've asked for an expansion of that and so what we're trying to do is to look at how we could approve that but also make sure we have appropriate internal controls we the board are responsible to make sure that whenever any equipment is laid out for another municipality that the the cost of those services are reflected in either barter or in time and charges. And so we've got some draft language for us to look at. either make some edits or whatever and then pass over once we feel comfortable with it to the highway superintendent. So she can discuss with the attorney to the town and see if we can come to some sort of compromise on the internal control language without being And then I've included board and committee reports. We don't do them on the first meeting. We do them in the second meeting of the month, but since we didn't have a second meeting of the month, I thought I would include them for the packet for the public. I don't know tonight that we'll have time to read them, but I do think that there were one or two, like the housing committee, where they were asking for some follow-up. Maybe we could discuss that tonight and let the other uh reports speak for themselves unless you know others feel differently but we do have to make a nine o'clock uh tonight uh for an executive session so that's our target for the bowl um and so without further ado let us jump right in uh we have the supervisor's report for the month ending august 31st We started with a balance of $11,597,000 and change, receipts of $1.8 million thereabouts, disbursements of $1.466 million, leaving an ending balance of $11,960,752. We have some budget adjustments here. I'll draw your attention to a few of them. One, we had some adjustments moving from budget, various budget lines in the DB fund, the highway fund, as you know. This was an unusually busy winter year, the 25-26 year, so some of those lines need to be replenished with monies from either other lines or from the fund balance. And you'll be seeing more adjustments, I think, coming up at the beginning of October in preparation for the wintertime. So our highway department has what they need in each budget line. Okay. Anything else? There are those budget lines I referenced. You'll see the transactions for the sale of the surplus of water department parcel that has concluded. as well as the bonding. And you have your variance reports as you always do.

Can you just speak up a little bit?

Sorry. And you have your variance reports as you do each month. Thank you. Okay. If there are no questions, would anybody like to make a motion to entertain the supervisor's report? To accept it?

I move.

Thank you, William. Is there a second? Second. Thank you, Jacob. Any discussion? If not, all in favor? Kenny? Aye. Myself, aye. Christina?

Aye.

Thank you. Aye. All right, William and Jacob. Neil, eyes? Aye. Okay. For the folks at home, may I introduce you to our new deputy town clerk, Jenny. I see. I love the sign. I'm a big Forrest Gump fan, so I've been saying Jenny for... 30 years or something now. Jenny, did you want to introduce yourself to the folks?

Hi, I'm Jenny. I'm the new deputy clerk. Happy to be here.

Okay, so Jenny's filling in tonight for Deanna, and you'll be seeing more of her, I'm sure, in the future. Okay. We have the town clerk's monthly report. Jenny, would you like to read that?

Okay, the town clerk's report for the period of August 1st to the 31st of 2026. The total local shares remitted to the town, $9,106.61. Amount paid to New York State Agriculture and Markets for the Spay and Neuter Program, $24. Amount paid to New York State Department of Health for marriage licenses, $67.50. Amount paid... to New York State Environmental Conservation for hunting and fishing licenses, $1,763.89. Total state, county, and local revenues, $10,962. And I hereby certify the vouchers number 35223 to 35323 totaling $180,097.04, processed in the month of August, 2026, are accurate, reporting of abstracts approved for payment by the town board.

Very good. Is there a motion to accept the clerk's report?

So moved.

Thank you, Christina. Second. Thank you, Jacob. All in favor? Kenny? Aye. William? Aye. Myself? Aye. Jacob? Aye. Christina?

Aye.

Okay, a few announcements. the county legislature passed a tax incentive to address housing shortage by increasing 80 years and so as you know we had a few years ago we passed a resolution in support of the plus 180 you program boy I think it was the end of 2024 I think you ran that meeting, December 30th, 2024 by a member. Yeah. And the local law would opt Dutchess County into a New York State tax exemption while ensuring public incentive. So let's take a look at this and see on the local level if that's something that we want to entertain as well. The county is having, Kenny, A government farm and business hazardous waste collection event. Conditionally exempt small quantity generator registration. So this event is Friday coming up in about five or six weeks. And here are the items that you can dispose of. We'll have this on our website as well to remind you.

Robert, can you just be louder? I know I've not been hearing, but...

Sorry.

You're not the only one.

No, I know. This is... The volume could be up higher, but... And I am admittedly a mumbler. So... Okay, so here are the items that are accepted. We'll have it up on our website to give you some time, but you do need to register as you do with all these hazardous waste events. Okay, it's hard to believe, 50th anniversary for Heart Scrabble, September 19th, 2026. I believe they have a page where you can see the performers. They always do.

Check the Village website.

There must be a link there. That's coming up rather quickly. Weekend after next. Okay, we've got a few events for Historic Red Hook. The Cemetery Crawl, the ever popular cemetery crawl. It lasts for five weeks. It starts also on the 19th. You get local cemeteries and you get to learn a lot about history. More talks. Jack Kelly, a local, will be talking on the 27th from 4 to 5 at the Elmendorf and also by Zoom. And then there were also

Have any announcements?

I just want to remind everybody that this Friday is the 25th anniversary of September 11th. And I hope that people will take a moment to think about all the Americans that died in that horrendous attack that we suffered. I just want to make sure everybody is aware of that, and then we have a good morning.

Yeah.

individuals in the Twin Towers, including one of my daughter's classmate's father, so I appreciate your attention. Okay, with that being said, oh, and Tivoli Street painting, we didn't get a flyer on that, but we know that it's coming up the following weekend after Arts Gravel Day, so that would be the Okay, thank you. Moving right along, we will take public comments. Who would like to go first? Linda, Linda would like to go first. Linda, if you'd be kind enough, we all know who you are, but if you'd say just for the record.

Linda Keeling. I came here specifically to congratulate Alex and Ann Rubin for completing a records management grant. I had been doing this in the early 90s for the town as well as the village. And so there was a big gap, and I'm glad to see that they're starting to take it up and work on the records again, because it can get very deep in paper and whatnot. So congratulations to them. It was over $62,000, so that's great. Thank you.

Roxanne. Yes. Bill, that was a good one, huh? It was excellent. Good evening, members of the board.

I want to begin by acknowledging a welcome correction in the supervisor's reporting. In the monthly statements through mid-July, attorney expenses appeared under the B fund, the town outside village fund, which improperly burdened outside village taxpayers. Over the past two months, those legal expenses have finally been moved where they belong, into the town-wide A fund. Now looking at the current town-wide legal budget, general legal council is budgeted at $50,000, with over $29,000 already spent. Other legal is budgeted at $25,000, with nearly $11,000 spent. Together, that is a $75,000 allowance, and more than $40,000 has already been drawn down. Beyond this month's report, FOIL records show that the town's cumulative legal costs are approaching or have already surpassed $300,000. Even allowing for legal fees that may overlap with current numbers, the sheer scale of public money committed to legal fees is staggering, and that still does not count the additional defense counsel provided by the insurance carrier. The legal leader never stops running. They say the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. Yet month after month, the bills pile up, the friction continues, and we stay on the very same course. So, with a nod to that definition, I'm standing here tonight to make the request once more. I urge council members Testa and Hamel, to look honestly at where this path has brought us. Stop the bleeding of public funds and move to rescind the votes. It is never too late to change course. Thank you.

Thank you, Roxanne. OK, let's move on to our first item in the agenda. And thank you all for coming. if they haven't been following along. We rejected bids. We had two bids previously. One was defective or not responsive is the technical term. The second one we were not happy with both the number and some questions. So we decided with consulting with our engineers that we were told that folks who had pulled some plans that they would be interested in more submissions we entertain the idea of maybe doing some other materials but I don't speak for myself we didn't see any great alternatives that would retain the character of the bridge I hope you don't have to go back so we're now looking at What we've already spent, we have been notified, although I don't know that the tip has been updated yet, that we have an additional $507,000, I think I mentioned to you after my last conversation with DOT. So you've got in your information given to you about budget-wise, So this resolution just essentially recounts what I've said, at least briefly, the important part. And so the idea is that we would go out to bid and to have them received a month from today, as a matter of fact, October 8th. And then we would need certainly a little time for the engineers to review.

actually spoke with him today jack the engineer because i couldn't remember why we rejected the two bids and he said their their in-house estimate was like two million and change and the lowest bid that we got was three million so we've been so he explained that um the work in the Sawkill because of the environmental issues can only be done certain months, and we just totally missed the window, which is what you said. It's just the details I think are important.

Yeah, I mentioned that there would be some amount of work possible in 2026, but essentially most of the work now is going to be in 2027. And then DOT has updated, will be updating their records to show the additional funding.

And obviously there's a pool of contractors that typically do this type of work, and he said he was surprised that none of the usual suspects were bidding on the work.

So it was, I mean... Yeah, so we hope to get more things. And that could also just be timing. It's timing.

They have a count, so they know they can do... This type of work is based on a calendar year, he was explaining, and We bid it out at a time when their calendars were already full, so. Okay.

Very good. Any thoughts on the resolution? Does it essentially say what we need it to say? Jen, can I quiz you for the next resolution number? 45.

45.

Okay, hearing no further questions, I would entertain a motion to approve resolution number 45, authorizing the solicitation of public bids for the DOT's Sauk Hill Bridge project. Are you making the motion? I would entertain it. Okay. Thank you. That's the liaison to the highway called Vince Rose.

Second.

Thank you, Christina. Further discussion? If not, all in favor? Kenny?

Aye.

William? Aye. Myself, aye. Jacob? Aye.

Christina?

Aye.

Thank you. And there's the notice that will be placed on the town website from BedNet. It will be circulated with all the known contractors as we did previously. So now we have the bond resolution. This is resolution 46 and the bond resolution MESSAGES, TWO IMPORTANT FIGURES. ONE IS THE ESTIMATED MAXIMUM COST OF A PROJECT, AND OF COURSE, THAT'S HOPEFULLY EXACTLY THAT MAXIMUM, NOT SOMETHING THAT WE WOULD HAVE TO EXPEND, INCLUDING ALL THAT ADDITIONAL GRANT FUNDING. BUT IT ALSO NEEDS TO REFERENCE WHAT WE WOULD NEED TO BORROW. MOST OF THE FUNDING WE'VE RECEIVED, REMEMBER, I RECALL FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO HAVE BEEN AROUND FOR A WHILE ON THE BOARD, The initial grant was Bridge New York money, so that's 95-5 money, 5% match. We received additional money through the county. That's 80-20 match. And then this last batch that we got from DOT goes back to 95-5. So I gave you that schedule that's in here just to give you an idea of potential estimates.

I have a few questions on that page. I didn't see it in the packet, but I think there were emails circulated. Or I saw it somewhere else. But part of this is an increased fee for the engineering cost.

The cost, yeah, there's an estimate. At the moment, the engineer is estimating a maximum, again, a maximum cost of $370,000, which is not something we're going to take up at this meeting. Because we want to see the bids, and we're certainly not going to agree to contract for per CI so what we're approving is just a bond for an estimated 3.9 you're approving a bond resolution for a project with a maximum cost of 3.9 that includes all that we've spent which was design construction inspection What all that will add up to, nobody knows.

So the difference is a bond is a bond, and a bond resolution is an estimate.

So it has two numbers. What's the maximum you're going to spend on the project, and what's the maximum you're going to borrow. Right. And so the 900,000.

And the bond is borrowing. Is that right? Yes. Okay.

Yeah. So that's the 900,000 figure in the resolution. So this improves up to. Either one of those.

Up to a total project cost of 3.9.

Including funds already expended, design, so on and so forth, and construction, and then inspection, and anything else. There'll be some legal .

I have a few more questions. Sure. I understand it's broken between federal and local.

Yes.

federalist is covering significant amount of the cost under the total funding of 3.3 you've got 388 that we already spent and then a subtotal who pays the contingency and how did we come up with 200 it's just like a funny number it's like not it's like I would be like contingency 10% or something yes

And not even 10%. Yeah.

So that's like a little over 5%. Yeah.

So a couple of things. Some of the numbers are known already. Some of the numbers have already been expended. So I know you deal with this every day. We're trying to develop budgets with contingencies. Because this project is, again, because we already have a rough idea of maybe what contractors are willing to bid on the project and hopefully lower because I think that's what we're looking for. we have a sense of what the project might come in at. And so I don't think we need a large contingency, and I'm not sure that we're prepared to do that.

So did we come up with the $200,000, or was it the engineer?

Discussion between the engineer, my office, yeah. And again, it's just, it's admittedly an estimate or a spitball on this, and it's only because it's, we have more certainty than if we were just starting from go on what we would need for a contingency.

So who would pay the contingency?

So again, the contingency, just think of the contingency as The total project is going, in order to get to that 3.9 million something, how much do you have left? Like here's what you think the project's going to cost, and that gets you to 3,742,000. I fully understand that.

I understand that. But my question is...

It's lower than 10%.

Who pays the contingency? Us? Or federal? Or is it split? The whole thing's burning out between federal and local. So is that a local cost?

Right. Yes. In theory, we could be paying that contingency. Again, it just really relates to the total project.

I understand that, but the answer to my question is us. We would pay that.

That wouldn't come out of... Not necessarily. Not necessarily.

It's not necessarily, but it's a fair assumption.

It's not necessarily. I mean, I've heard those people, you know... Four months ago, we didn't have the $507,000, okay? So, yeah. This is what happens with... And how did that 507 company exist? That's a matter between the DOT gods and their offices. So they had additional funding left over. What you'll find with these projects, there's hundreds of projects, and many of them go along schedule. Well, I don't need to tell you. I know you're in the private sector, but many of the projects go along schedule, and then some of the projects get delayed, but the funding has already been assigned and allocated. wasn't completed in time. So DOT recognized that we rejected the bids, looked around, just like Dutchess County did, looked around and said, where can we find some additional funding? So we were able to procure them.

The federal government also has particular having worked there. The way they budget and the way, under federal law, the Congress appropriates funds, funds have to be expended by the end of the fiscal year. So as you get later into the year, there are projects and other things that the federal government looks at. Do we have extra money that wasn't expended on this prior project that we can appropriate to another project? So part of the mystery of when you get federal funds is, their appropriation process, because in the federal government, with very few exceptions, it's use it or lose it. It goes back to the treasury. And most federal agencies don't want to lose it, because then it affects their budget for the next year. I guess you didn't need it, so we're not going to appropriate you more money. I did some of that for a living, so I understand. But I mean, I think it's a wonderful thing for us. know like with the water tower we appropriate a bond for the 1.6 and change we can weigh under on that so yeah you're just you're just putting money aside to borrow if you have to and you hope that you don't these are authorization right yeah that's all it is it says that the town is authorized to expand and to borrow up to these limits if

this inaccurate, but these are reasonable estimates. Other questions? Okay. 46. Approving, accept, no, no, no, no. You don't go that way, you go this way. 46 bond resolution dated September 8th, 2026. And we're going to do a roll call on this because it's bond resolution. Authorizing reconstruction of Salt Hill Road bridge over the Salt Hill Creek at an estimated maximum cost of $3,950,000. And authorizing the issuance of serial bonds with the town of Red Hook, Dutchess County, New York. in an aggregate principal amount not to exceed $900,000 pursuant to the local finance law to finance a portion of such costs, delegating certain powers in connection therewith to the town supervisor, enumerated in the various sections. I think I've described the usefulness. Just for the folks at home, if you are wanting to become more interested in the exciting life of borrowing money for municipal projects, know that each project has a potential useful life and you can only borrow out certain duration terms. And so in this case, that period of probably usefulness of set purpose is 20 years. We determined that the proposed project is unlisted. The maturity of authorized in this resolution will be in excess of five years. The board plans to finance a portion of the cost by the issuance of serial bonds. Again, that's a maximum amount. We hope to be quite a bit under that. It may reimburse the town. We bill the state, the state reimburses us, so there's cash flow issues there, which is why we have a higher number for the bond issuance to manage the cash flow. Okay. authorizing the supervisor to take such actions and execute such documents as may be necessary to ensure the continued status of the interests of the bonds. 10 days adoption, town clerk authorized and directed to cause notice in the papers as required by law. Takes effect 30 days after adoption. Any other questions, folks? This is resolution number 46. Who would like to move 46? I cover it. So moved. Okay. These waters are calm. These waters are calm. You just changed it. I'm going to have one of those December rainy plus. Okay, that's second by Deputy Supervisor Hamill. Thank you. Further discussion? If not, we're going to do a roll call. All in favor? Aye. Thank you. Williams? Aye. Myself? Aye. Jacob? Aye. Christina? Aye. Thank you all. Okay, we've already heard about the records grant. We have records grants. We've been doing a lot of records lately. You'll read more about records from the courts further in our packet tonight. A resolution approving acceptance of New York State LGRMIF, I dare anybody to say it quickly what it stands for. Quickly, quickly Linda. Whereas the town of Red Hook has been selected to receive a local government records management improvement fund grant in the amount of $62,548, I want to see that budget, to fund the records management project. It includes updated records inventory, records management policy, and engagement of consultants to train the staff. All project work must be completed. It's another one of these grants where you've got to get it done fairly quickly by the end of June. So once we have a contract on this, they'll be engaged quickly, so we hope we do get We do get that right now. We're doing that MBWE compliance work. And that's the schedule of how the payment works on this grant program.

Do we have a list of all of the grants?

Of all the grants that we've received?

No, of the ones that are active.

The ones that... Oh, we sure do. I mean, we have a file of them that we can update you on. We can give you a list of currently active grants.

Yeah, I think it would be helpful, like, if we have a document that has... Like, when we talk about grants, maybe that could be in the packet, so we have a perspective on what we're doing.

A lot of them end up in those variants, you know, the budget line variants, because we create a line for each one. But yeah, we can do a list of the 12 and 14. I'm moving this way. I am moving this way. Okay. That was resolution 47 to accept the grant. I think we've talked enough about the grant. And again, congratulations. Thanks for the work. And as many people can tell you, getting the grant is only part of the fun. That's all that goes along with it. Paper, paper, paper. Who would like to move Resolution 47? I'll move it. Thank you, Will. Is there a second? Second. Thank you, Jacob. Any further discussion? If not, all in favor of New York State LGRMIF Records Management Grant, accept it. Kenny? Aye. William? Aye. Myself, aye. Christina? Aye. Jacob? Aye. Thank you very much. All right. Moving right along. Good. As we should continue to. Where am I? Oh, here we go. This is not, so this is not the request for the showcase. That was already sent as per your instructions. I liaised with the zoning officer, confirmed that that was permitted, sent word to both Upstate Pines and OCM to no objection to the showcase. This is a renewal. They didn't realize they did annual renewals on these. Here we have it. Received August 20th, so we're in timely 30-day use. I have heard no complaints on this establishment.

Can you talk louder?

Sorry, I have heard no complaints on this establishment. At least none that I'm aware of.

So they contribute a significant amount of tax revenue?

There is sales tax, yes. So the way it works with cannabis, it's very different than with general sales tax. General sales tax is appropriated by the county based upon agreements they have with the two cities, and there's a remainder portion that gets split by the municipalities. I believe our share is 2.9% of that remainder. If I have that right. They're 10-year agreements that every... With cannabis, it's different. There's a 4% tax. We get three-quarters of it. We get three-quarters of it, but that particular property lies both within the town and the village. The actual boundary lines diagonally goes through. So right now, we are splitting 50-50 the sales tax revenue, our portion of it, with the villages.

So, yes, there is some revenue associated with that. Do you know what that was approximately in last year?

Well, that's in your variance report. You can see both the in and the out of that. You'll see in the budget, I'll be giving the budget as I do each year by the end of September to the town clerk who then passes it on to the town board. workshops and then we have to have a public hearing no later than the Thursday after election day and then we need to pass the budget no later than November 20th of each year. In there you'll see a budget. It has been a bit challenging because the revenue gets collected by the county and then gets distributed to us. For a while we were getting all the revenue and sending the village their share without letting us know so we were sending the village their share um so we'll see what we'll see what uh if by the time the tentative budget is ready and we've had budget some budget meetings with the departments as of this date we'll see if we have more insight into what to project for 2027 but it could be um somewhere in the neighborhood of sixty to eighty thousand dollars a year is for what i'm thinking for a year for our share that's what jacob said it was 77 years year to date and that's across both establishments in the town right well hang on don't don't get too excited okay 77 what we've collected so far we gave half to the village so it's not 77

We don't know. We don't know. What do you mean you don't know?

We don't know because we don't get that detail. You just send us a check. Oh, you don't get a breakdown. We don't get a breakdown from the county.

We just get a check. And we've struggled to understand, then do tell us for which quarter or

I apologize for it.

But either way, I mean, it's a business that's contributing, or is it both businesses are contributing somewhere in the neighborhood of $80,000 back into the local community?

Well, I think the tentative budget I put out may have a number between $60,000 and $80,000 as a projection.

It had $80,000, but it looks like you're going to exceed that, even though we're getting half. No wonder.

I'm thinking it's going to be somewhere between 60 and 80. What you're looking at, 77, is both the town and village because there's another line you're not looking at, which is distribution to the village for cannabis, which is half of that if both the collection and the distribution has happened within the same labor report. Does that make sense? Okay. a municipality who opted in, and we're one of the few municipalities who did opt in on this side of the river. And Bill attended.

I parked it. I parked it as well. There's one that opened just up. OK. OK.

Next up, Kenny, I don't know, did you have a chance to take a look and maybe come up with a recommendation?

No, I have not. I'm sorry about dropping the ball on that. Okay. This is the college shelter. Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, exactly. Okay, I think I mentioned we have three cell tower companies over there on Kelly Road. Two of which have agreements coming up for renewal. And we have a proposed agreement that might be something we would entertain. what's been working well. So companies generally try to tell you that they are thinking about moving somewhere else if you don't give them

It comes up November 1st, and I think it reflects some of what we have discussed for negotiations.

And we continue to work on the other two carriers, one of which is coming due soon and one of which is not. Which one is coming due soon?

Or roughly. You're going to test my memory.

December for T-Mobile, for this year. AT&T is 2029. Will I remember the month? Maybe Chris knows the month. I ask because AT&T has an application before the planning order for something. That's correct. For January. Chris, do you remember what month in 29 AT&T is due?

End of the year. It was December, May. I'm going to have to look it up. It's 2029, I know.

Yeah. Okay.

Is the generator, is AT&T's generator going on this site? Yes. Okay. Yeah. So the context here is we have a tower. It's on kind of the highest point in the town. It's right behind the tank. Right. I mean, I don't know if that's absolutely true, but it's one of the highest, it's highest elevation, we have this tower. And the cell phone service is terrible. I mean, particularly AT&T. So my questions are, Is it related to Verizon now? It is, it is, yes. I mean, it's related to Verizon, but it's like I'm looking globally at all three. We have a number of positions on the tower, right? I asked you about that earlier tonight, I think you said.

Yeah, I think we have Verizon, T-Mobile, AT&T, two, three, four. Nobody wanted one when it came to that one.

Which is kind of crazy because if, any of them moved up to number one, then they would, so when we looked at the tower that was proposed near the bridge approach, I don't know whether that's been started yet or whether there, that was like a weird fight between AT&T and Verizon. This is when I was on the planning board. There was like a race to get an approval because they wanted to, each company wanted to own the tower. Um, and so we looked extensively at the, um, the mapping of the signal and it was surprising to me to see that 10 feet made a huge difference. So location. Yeah. And so my question is, this is a lease that goes into when?

Well, these are, these are five year leases that can be extended. for more additional terms. So, provided the technology continues to have demand for cell towers in the future, and I'm not a futurist, so I will not speculate on that, though I love studying the stuff, we could have equipment on that tower for another 25 years. And we have an open spot. This term goes to 2031.

Okay.

But this one, yes, it's five at a time. Okay.

Yeah. Well, I mean, it's positive that they're paying more rent, but I think the bigger issue is, like, have we discussed with them what... equipment they're putting and are there options for the equipment? We always do.

We have the engineers review any proposed changes. In fact, I think some of them have come in front of the planning board when you and Bill were on the planning board. We always do. The engineers review the equipment. We look at whether or not that additional equipment means they're occupying additional space and it's above and beyond what the lease was for.

Well, when I was on the planning board, numerous companies came numerous times and it was really like insignificant updates in terms of the strength of the signal. It was like emergency services or some other technical piece of equipment that needed to be updated. But we don't have self-service. I have AT&T. The calls drop on 9G all the way to the bridge, right? And Also in town, literally in the center of the village, there are days when it just doesn't work. Which is really a huge problem. So if we're looking at renewing these leases, what have we done to correct that? For example, we could make the tower taller. we could negotiate better equipment. I mean, I don't know the technical solutions, but it's like we have this chance to push them through a lease and say, this is what we need. We need phones to work.

Well, we certainly can do that.

Alternatively, I would say that there's no reason

a renewal of a lease precludes that either. I don't know necessarily saying to Verizon, because there's AT&T coverage issues, that we're not going to sign a lease with you, Verizon. I happen to have Verizon. I don't experience any issues around that area. Again, I haven't studied what service...

The maps are funny that they have on... I looked at them today and the coverage maps, they show, it's one color and it's just like binary. It's like service or no service. And there's like, there's small areas like Elizaville is not, I mean, we're talking about Red Hook, but like there's a big hole in Elizaville for AT&T, but it shows complete coverage through 9G and the bridge and the bridge approach, which is certainly not true. I'm talking about AT&T and Verizon. My point is that the maps that they have show coverage. It's like coverage, no coverage. On Planetboard, we looked at it in detail. We looked at the actual signal strength in different areas and the gradient of what that is and what that means and where your call is going to drop and where you don't have data and you can't conduct business or download anything. The signal strength is not just on or off. AT&T and Verizon are showing complete coverage, which is just not true.

Here's what I would say. It's not in their defense at all, because I have Verizon and I have to stand in special spots in my house. But there are environmental factors. So for example, in the winter, when the leaves are off the tree, I have better coverage in my home than I do during the summer. And I know which rooms in my house have better service than others. And so when they do their map, they're basically saying, well, I'm sending the signal to this area. I think there are things that get in the way. And some of those things are really not in our control. But they did, it was two years ago, three years ago, I remember they increased their signal. They did make an improvement because there was a period where I had no service in my house for about three months. I think they changed it from a 4G to, they were upgrading, and I really had no service in my house, and I kept calling and saying, hey, you know, I have to go to the village to make a phone call here from the library. And they, somehow they worked that out, and it was restored. But it is somewhat of a mystery.

Well, I guess my point is that I've lived here for 25 years, and we've had gaps in coverage that haven't really improved. My point is that it doesn't seem like a situation where the market is going to take care of itself. They're not motivated to fix it. Because they think they have you.

And they kind of do. Because many people have gotten rid of their landlines.

Right. So it affects my business that I can't continue a phone call when I drive across the bridge.

Okay, but we have to recognize that a tower that is located miles away from the bridge isn't necessarily going to provide that coverage. They have approvals to build one right by the bridge approach, so presumably they made the argument that they absolutely need to have that coverage, and so they haven't built some.

My question is, have we looked at that? Do we have an understanding of, the equipment that they're mounting on our tower under this lease. And do we know... There's no change in equipment.

So when they have a proposed change, they come in front of our engineers.

But why not? I mean, do we know that they can't improve coverage by changing something? A height, an equipment, whatever.

Again, I'm not in that business. Yeah, but we're renewing the lease.

Can I finish my thought? We only have this opportunity to negotiate with them. There's no other way that we can say, hey, our coverage is terrible. So if we Why wouldn't we at least understand what equipment they have and what is available and where the holes in the signal are and say, hey, we need you to put better stuff on our tower or move it up. Upgrade.

Upgrade, okay. So here's what I'd say again. I have no expertise in this area. I just, it's in my mind logical to assume that they would continue to do what they have done.

But have we negotiated that with them?

I haven't finished my thought.

I know, but it's just like you guys didn't answer it. Just say yes or no.

I'm trying to answer, and I can't get in a word in edgewise. I understand your point. I'm just trying to answer you, okay? It's, for me at least, logical to assume that they will continue to do what they have been doing, which is asking to put newer and better and more effective and presumably better coverage equipment on the tower. They have done it multiple times during my time. No. Well, yes.

They haven't. They haven't fixed it.

I'm not saying that they fixed it. I don't know what kind of coverage is possible from just one location. Presumably, they are about to build

bridge and that's how they're going to get the concentric circles. It's just it's a question it's a yes or no question did we we negotiated the rate we negotiated that we're getting a little bit more money that's that's good but did we negotiate what equipment they're putting on and and upgrading it or addressing any of the coverage gaps?

We did not and again I area of this tower frequently. I don't experience the same, and again, I don't want to get into which vendor is providing the service better than another vendor, but I don't experience what you're talking about as a Verizon customer anywhere near this tower. And in fact, I can now go to the bridge approach and go over the bridge in part because of the tower that exists by Ruggies now that didn't exist just two years ago or something like that. That's a pretty tall tower. That's a tall tower.

That's fair, but it doesn't make sense to me to not have that information. To say that I don't experience a call dropping is different from saying I have data, I have

map I have some sort of evidence of saying do I have like a high signal low signal like talking on the phone is different than downloading a document like it well there's one thing to ask for the information the other is do you think you have leverage to negotiate a better deal and frankly there's nobody who's sitting up here in the dais who has the technical expertise and to make those kinds of decisions. And when you were on the planning board and I was the liaison to the ZBA, the same people from AT&T with their teams of lawyers and engineers were coming for variances for certain things to build the tower, which they haven't built yet. And you had what I would call engineer wars, where one team of people would have their engineers say, well, if we do it this way, it'll be that way. I don't think any of us have And we would have to spend a lot of money to hire consultants who have some technical expertise in this area to even put us in a position to do that.

I disagree.

Are you suggesting that we don't renew a lease with one of the major cell carriers? I think your constituents would be very unhappy.

I am asking the question if we had the information, and the answer is no. And what I would say is that we can talk about renewing the lease and what we're up against, and if it makes sense to move forward with it without that information, we can talk about that. But my point is that these are huge companies, and they're very used to providing information about their signals and the RF studies or whatever they're called, right? do not really need a consultant to understand the map. You can look it up yourself. They're very understandable. It's like, it's showing, it's like Kindergartner could understand it. It's like a gradient and there's colors and there's strengths and you can understand what each of them means and really see in detail. Like we looked at it and said, the issue with the other tower is that 9G is a scenic corridor. So we were weighing how tall the tower should be and how visible it should be in that location with the benefit of the signal. And I was very surprised to see a few feet made a big difference.

they made a big difference that I would just leave that.

No, no, they mapped it. They showed us the evidence that a few feet made a, like, we were like, is the tower going to be this tall? Is it going to be this tall? They gave us the studies of each of those. So you could look at it and say, all right, and we made them put up like balloons or there was, like we looked at the height above the trees. We looked at all of that. And weighing, should the tower be like, 10 feet higher or lower had an enormous impact on the signal. So number one, it's crazy that we're not pushing somebody to take the top spot on this tower. Whether it's Verizon or AT&T or T-Mobile. Somebody should be up there. It's crazy that it's empty.

You would think the people in the business. of providing that service would jump at the chance.

They're not doing it, though. In 25 years, it hasn't improved, so who's going to push them to do that? But wait a second. Us.

Who do you currently have?

I have AT&T. He has AT&T. That's your problem. I don't disagree.

With Verizon, I can go... We don't have any trouble in that area.

Well, I mean... I have Verizon. I agree with you, maybe I should switch, but lots of people have AT&T and we should have good signals in our town.

In an interest of moving this along, how about we compromise, we try to get some of those maps, how about we compromise in saying that before we entertain a renewal of AT&T, which has the bottom spot on the tower, that we have discussions with them about the still available top spot on the tower as a way to generate better service and better revenue. And we'll have time to do that and to look at the studies and then hopefully that'll satisfy you on those issues because, you know, as Phil, well AT&T we have plenty of time.

No, on this revolution. or their lease runs out when?

This is November 1st. So, you know, it has to go through corporate. Well, you say it's plenty of time. But both sides need to agree. I don't think it's plenty of time. Again, I think... You haven't even demonstrated that there's a problem, and you want us to go ahead and solve something that hasn't even been demonstrated as a problem as a way to not... No, I'm saying we don't have information.

I'm not concluding a result. I'm saying that we should have information on what model of equipment is on that tower and what's... Well, we do have that because the last time they were in, they...

presented that, the engineer review, and asked me to remember it off the top of my head. I deal with hundreds of various things in this job.

Should we include that in the lease, though? Should we say, you got to give us the best stuff?

What does that even mean? I mean, we don't know. I can't project to the future. I mean, I don't know what the best stuff is. Are we going to monitor their equipment? Presumably, they know what they're doing and they're going to get the best equipment so they don't have to pay too many times different rents. that they want to have the best trajectory. I mean, at some point, because Jacob's absolutely right. I mean, maybe they're going to say, enough with this nonsense. We're working with AT&T. We're going to build that tower, buy the bridge approach. We're going to go up that amount of fee. You may get better service and be happy about it, but you're going to get zero revenue for your taxpayers. And you may be fine with that trade-off. I'm not suggesting that that's a bad trade-off. I'm just saying that I don't know that a non-existent problem with Verizon service in that part of town is something that is, because I never get complaints from people about SunService.

I just don't, like the flip side of it is that maybe there's like, like there's people that are concerned about the the environmental impact of the signal. I'm just saying we don't know what they're putting on the tower. So maybe there's something that's healthier for people. I don't know. Why don't we know what the options are? We're just saying, all right, tower, you can put up whatever you want. And it seems like something we should engage in to know what's available, what they currently have. I don't know, but it doesn't sound like you know either, and I think we should know. What if we have junky equipment and the next town over has better stuff?

How old is the equipment you're in now?

The various providers have updated their equipment. I can't tell you which one updated on which date, got approval from the planning board. Did the board...

I can tell you that the last couple approvals that came through the planning board while I was on the planning board were not about signal strength. They were about 911 emergency services, stuff like that. It's pretty critical. Of course it's critical. I mean, maybe that could be part of it too, but the point is that if we don't know, why don't we know and why don't we engage in that when we sign a lease?

I think again... why don't we know what equipment is? We do know what the equipment is there. I just don't have it in front of me. That's very different.

And even if we did, we're not engineers, none of us. And it would require us hiring probably, and I don't think anybody at Time Bond has that expertise. It's a very narrow... How would you insist?

I completely disagree. Like, there's saying, like, follow the logic. You're saying, are you saying that we shouldn't engage in the equipment. We don't care. That's up to the company. But I wouldn't know.

It's like speaking another language to me that I don't speak, is my point. OK.

But saying that you're not going to understand it is like,

What I understand is, is it an upgrade? Is it new technology? Is it an upgrade from the old technology? Is it supposed to improve our service? They're going to say yes. And unless someone of us has the expertise to challenge that, I don't think we're in a position to have that conversation. And this is just about renewing the lease. I think we should renew the lease. I'm going to make the motion right now that we renew the lease. If you don't want to vote for it, that's your business as a legislator. That conversation that you're having is a conversation that can be had. It's not for this. That's all I'm saying.

My question to you would be, if not now, then how and when would we negotiate it with them? This is the one point where we have leverage. The number one is around the corner.

Well, again, I threw out what I thought was a sensible compromise. If the issue seems to be with AT&T, no reason to disbelieve you on that. And they are at the lowest rung. then happy to make that known to AT&T as part of our renewal. We need to see a demonstration that they have improved service within that area of potential. I'm happy to do that. That seems like a reasonable compromise between the two positions.

And I would be happy when they came in front of the planning board, they were in a mad rush, and they were able to turn around all kinds of information in a very short period of time, like two weeks.

Three weeks.

So my suggestion...

I'm happy to get working on that now, even though the renewal's not due for three years. And I hope to be here in three years when the renewal comes. But, yeah.

What's that?

Bill. Bill, I am not... I think we need to renew this definitely before the lease runs out, but I think we should... have an opportunity to have more information and see if we can make it better.

I can tell you there is no way between September 8th and September 23rd that I can advance that discussion so that we, first of all, other equipment that is possible I can say that look we're not going to sign until you know you tell us what better equipment there is and give us guarantee that you will always use the state-of-the-art presumably a business is doing that because they're in competition with a moment at all you know all these other parents so presumably they're doing that I hear you I don't I I want to has already approved this tower which is on private property or the revenue will go there and once that's built right that makes a better time to discuss with AT&T hey look now this works fine but by the way over here on Kelly Road this ain't working so good so we want you to you know consider the topic the time to engage with AT&T on that. But that's just my opinion. And I'm almost ready to entertain Bill's resolution.

I would be happy to take that on with them and have the discussions and see. I mean, I spent an enormous amount of time learning about this when the other tower came in front of the planning board. So it's really not rocket science. Yes, it's technical, but it's not. You can do the research and understand it.

That matter took a long time for the Planning Board to resolve. There were meetings after meetings after meetings because it was a parallel proceeding with the Zoning Board of Appeals. I'm very familiar with that because I was on the other end. I think you're right when there's something that's so exigent they'll find a way to get it done. Considering that there are three cell providers, and most people have given up their landlines, and this is their essential way of communicating for emergencies, I don't think it's responsible to not renew this lease. I'm not suggesting that we shouldn't go back to them in the future, because our tower is old, by the way.

Our tower is old. The idea that we would extend the tower upward, that's a whole other conversation. Wow. Our tower's old. And why wouldn't we extend the tower? We don't even have a provider who wants to take the top spot. Well, there's probably business reasons for that.

There's multiple levels of it, right? Like, can we negotiate with them to force them to do a whole engineering study? Maybe not. But maybe they have information at their disposal that could answer some of these questions. And it doesn't seem like we asked those questions to them in this lease negotiation.

more inferior, especially since there's no issue. This carrier has the highest spot that's occupied right now on the site. So I hear you. I'll see what I can do to try to help address some of your concerns and wanting to do that. But I know just with this timeline, I'm not going to be able to advance.

I'm happy to do it. And I think it would be reasonable to say that we give this until the October, the the first October meeting. You can sign a lease within three or four weeks.

What do others think?

I just said I think we should make this decision on the first October meeting and use the time between now and then to see what information is available about the equipment and the signal. Okay.

Okay, but I would like to... Is that a proposal? Well, before you can entertain that proposal, I would just like to remind folks there are other things that we were supposed to be tackling we haven't tackled. Okay, so I know you've offered your services here. point is, before you say that you're willing to tackle something between now and the next few weeks, I want to remind you that months ago we were supposed to have something back on Salt Shed and all that stuff.

Oh, I'm not in critical path on Salt Shed. I designed it and sent it to Brandy. She's working on it. But, no, I mean, so are you saying...

I'm just saying that we don't take on more than, like I've just indicated, I'm not going to be able to advance in the next couple of we're going to get do you feel that we're jeopardizing something if we approve this in october yes why because i think they're trying to figure out whether or not it makes more sense for them to go to a different location which would not be good for brett That is their options. Or options are to say, hey, we want more money or we want more equipment. But then they would have to build a tower.

They'd have to build a tower.

That would be much more expensive. You mean the tower that they have approval for? Is that what you mean? Is that what you mean, that tower on private land that they have approval for?

Yeah, well, what's the cost to build a tower?

I would just say we have...

For runs occupied, we have three now. So, Christina, what you're proposing is to get information about equipment, coverage, things like that, by the first October meeting. And then at that point, what do you think we should do to change that with the lease between that meeting? Do you need to approve it effectively, not immediately, but that meeting, or hypothetically the next meeting? I don't know if the... I don't know if we're going to have the time to get that information, have a discussion about it, figure out how that fits into changing a lease agreement, going back to Verizon to see if they're okay with the changes, which I imagine this is probably fairly standard across... Wait, but you missed an important step.

Who are we hiring, right? What do you mean? The planning board hired somebody to review their work. They hired somebody before they came to the planning board, the experts on... on the coverage, right? Who are we hiring? Where does that step fit into the schedule? And how much money are we going to expend?

I am not suggesting that we hire a consultant because I think the information is understandable to enough people with a certain level of technical knowledge. I can understand it. I wouldn't need an consultant to explain it to me.

I would raise my hand and say there's no way I'm going to understand the best equipment, I think your words were, and make sure they put the best equipment on that. There's no way I'm going to be able to understand that. And the best equipment today is not going to be the best equipment in two years.

We're talking in circles here because your displeasure is with AT&T. And I've heard the same thing from many other AT&T users about the corridor on 9G. We're not talking about AT&T. We have plenty of time to work with AT&T to try to get that service improved.

We are talking in circles, but my point is, to be very clear, it seems foolish to not have the information.

Well, my motion still stands to approve this lease. doesn't go forward, then fine. But I think it's foolish, and I think it's reckless, frankly, to not, for something, a critical service like this, which people rely on to call the 911 when someone's having a heart attack, to, you've got less than two months to work this out. Now, if you'd brought this up when we had our last conversation about this lease, which was two months ago, that might have been a different story. but I agree but we're but we're not we're not this is where we are now and I and I really think it's not the responsible move to be trying to question this now now we'll have five years to decide and there'll be five years worth of I'm sure in the course of five years there'll be additional upgrades and you know improvements to services you know that they're going to advertise and that gives the town and the town board time to look at that issue And it also gives the town board time to look at, you know, the tower is old. And do we want to do a new tower? Is that a good financial thing for the town to do? Does it provide the level of service that we think our residents deserve? Those are all, I think, good conversations to have. This is an issue of making sure that we get Verizon back up. And I'm not hearing any complaints from Verizon. I've never heard complaints from Verizon users. And so I think it's apples and oranges.

I do. Well, I like the idea of walking and chewing gum, which is passing a resolution and to try to get you the information that you want. And then during the negotiations with AT&T, see if we can solve this issue. Maybe get somebody to occupy the top spot. And maybe make that a condition. But if we don't have renewals on our tower, those renewals, you know, I don't know how they work together on these towers to occupy the spots. They like to own one. Then they're competitors or renters and all of that stuff. But, boy, they certainly have the financial wherewithal to do whatever they want. And presumably they're in competition with others. And soon we'll get it all from satellites.

So, Billy, you think if we waited two weeks to the next meeting, you think this is in jeopardy?

I'm a conservative person, and anything can happen. People get sick. You're talking about a very short time frame for a significant service that we have to find a way to provide for our residents who use that particular carrier. There's only three carriers. And if this was an AT&T conversation, I'd be saying the same thing. I don't, that's not something I'm going to take the risk on.

So they have a lease until November?

Until November 1. That means October 31st. So what are you talking about? You're talking about less than two months.

So just to be clear, you think that it will jeopardize it, like they're going to rip their stuff off the tower? No.

But they have other business options that they can go and negotiate. If they think we're not going to renew their lease, they can go talk to other people who have towers and say, well, you know, I'll put it somewhere else. I just don't think it's the responsible thing to do at this stage.

I know that there are others courting them in other locations in the town.

You're elected. You're entitled to your position as a legislator. But I strongly disagree with you. And I think that the timing of this is not good. Would I like to have more time to answer questions?

Absolutely.

months ago that was the time to raise this not now so again I just I don't know who's going to advance this fall because in two weeks I'm not going to be able to speak intelligently about equipment in the future what's on there you know I would need to have consulting engineers I think we need to keep this keep it moving what do you Kenny Jacob you guys haven't chimed in as much thoughts I think it'd be great to improve the service I'm skeptical of

sign off on to tie them up with improving their equipment. I'm really doubtful of that happening in the next couple of weeks.

I don't see why we're assuming they aren't putting out the best equipment because they are changing it out.

But I think that them tying themselves to that with this lease agreement, I'm skeptical that they're going to want to do that.

It's a guess, right? You don't know. Sure. The question is, and I appreciate your position, Bill. It's like saying that, like, and Robert, you know, you're talking to these people. You have a relationship, I'm assuming, with someone from the company. And if you think that they're going to turn and run because we didn't approve it tonight, like, I don't know.

I don't know. I would be in a position to speak intelligently on the topic and equipment. Today, two weeks from now, four weeks from now, I would need a subject matter expert to help me through that. And especially when it relates to two years from now. But if there's some language that you want to propose for how we insist they have the best equipment on there, I just don't know how we... logic is we're going to need to say like we don't want more information because we might not understand it now I think we have the I'm sorry I think we have the equipment because I think they've all upgraded so we have that in our files somewhere in fact came through the planning board almost all of it I think the engineer may have signed off on something if it was to minimize in nature but we have all that information what it means and what what else is out there available and what we asked that when did they

Do you have a record of when they upgraded it? And did that get approval from the planning board to upgrade it? In many cases, yes.

In some cases, no, if it was de minimis. If it was just they were taking this little piece and putting a newer version, think in terms of modems, right? How many times have we all upgraded our modems? Yes. And you don't know what the future modem is going to be like. So I don't have the dates. I don't have the dates.

Right. I'm just saying, so if you know when they upgraded them last, what do they upgrade them to? Once you have the model, you know, every motor has a model number, so you look up the model number and you speak to somebody that's knowledgeable about it.

The technology is changing, and so I think the question is, anything that we would mandate that they do or require that they do or meet standards that they do, I'm not even sure that we... We're almost getting to the question.

I was just going to say, they upgraded to 5G in the very easy past, so that's a big upgrade.

But AT&T is having issues with... We're not talking about AT&T.

Verizon has upgraded to 5G, and they made a big point about it. Oh, they advertised that one? Yeah, for anyone who wants to subscribe.

Well, is it possible we can do both of these things, try to get more information on the AT&T equipment and put ourselves in a good position to negotiate better service and better revenue from them when the time comes? That's two years away, I feel, two years and change. That's the AT&T. Yeah, and I feel like we can do that in a couple of years.

Well, that's what everybody complains about. Okay.

So, I mean, I think that's my compromise I offered 45 minutes ago, and I'm kind of still there. But thoughts, Jacob?

Yeah, I mean, I don't think that for Verizon, I have an issue moving forward with this agreement today.

I agree it would be great to improve service, but I don't know if that's going to come from this point. I don't think in the next month and a half we're going to figure that out, a change to this agreement that they're going to tie themselves to improving their service in some tangible way just from signing this agreement. I think that for AT&T there are very clear things that we can do as far as moving up, which if that's the carrier that has the most issues, it seems like what you're saying, they move up a couple feet, it improves things. That's a pretty clear thing.

They're the fourth position. if they're in the fourth position. So let's do that. It's awful sometimes. Do you have 19?

Yeah, and I have the same issues on 19 for sure. But I think that what we're hearing is Verizon doesn't have the same issues and less concerned about securing them as a lessee. And then it seems like they have improved their service over the years in a way that the people who have Verizon are happy with it. I think we should use the time we have between now and the next AT&T to leverage them to do that. Collect the information for that, and then, you know.

We don't want the wrong kid to get the time out. So that's where I would be.

Okay.

I'm hearing that that might be a compromise, but not necessarily making everybody happy, but will work towards improved service. Okay. You said you wanted to make that motion, 48. Who wants to second? I'll second it. Further discussion? OK, thank you. That was a lengthy discussion. I thought a good discussion. And I think that we can hopefully achieve both of those goals.

I do have one other quick thing to say. Sure. To Bill's point about we did discuss this a few months back, totally acknowledged. I think what would be helpful to me is if we can be more included in the communication as it's happening. So I'm looking at my emails. The last email I have on this, besides the ones from the packet this week, were in March. so you're right we did talk about this a long time ago but if we're included in you know i make my employees see me on everything like if we're reading this and and seeing how the discussion is evolving or robert if you have a phone call send us your notes from the phone call so we're kind of thinking about it actively yeah there's very little change between um the

instructions you gave me and the result that we see today.

No, my point is that it's very easy to keep everyone on the board very informed of where it is. It's hard to prepare for a meeting when you have a packet and you're like, oh, I haven't thought about this in six months. So something I'm just going to bring up, I want to talk about it more at the end of the meeting in terms of procedure and

Okay, well, the end of the meeting is about to approach because we have people waiting for us. We have a motion. We have a second. Additional discussion? Any more discussion?

If not, all in favor? Kenny? Aye. William? Aye. Myself? Aye. Jacob? Aye. Christine? Okay. That was 48.

Shared services. Shared services, so again, this is just some language if you have had a chance to look at it. I want to remind you, our fiduciary, all of us, electing those of us who hold not only taxpayer dollars but also equipment paid for by taxpayer dollars. We have a fiduciary to make sure there's a proper accounting of those pieces of equipment and services. that ensue from the equipment and so what we're trying to do is to once again do two things which is provide the flexibility that we've had during emergency situations to share and you know more locally the villages you know we do the street sweeping you know vice versa all that stuff and there's been a very good you know mostly harder arrangement but that does not mean that we can exempt ourselves, both the department and the town board and myself as the chief financial officer from proper internal controls such that if truck is loaned to another municipality and there's no accounting. Has it been there for a day? Has it been there for a week? Has it been there for a month? Did the truck stay at the town of ABC or did the truck then end up at Joe and Janet Smith's house? And so on and so forth. Without having proper internal controls in this situation, we could find ourselves being both ignorant and having it run afoul of our responsibility and so drafted for your consideration some language and then if you find that it's mostly acceptable then we can forward to the highway superintendent take a look at it as well these are things that we're already doing already accounting for The gasoline at the Village of Red Hook and the Tivoli Fire Department and all that stuff. We've got counters for all that stuff. All of that is absolutely necessary. And so the suggestion that we don't need internal controls is just not something that is at all in concert with our responsibilities. I'm sorry if it appears that we're pushing back to the highway superintendent's recommendation that we now have internal controls, but we absolutely must have internal controls to understand where our dollars and equipment and services are being provided. And that, you know, simple logs, that simple rate comparisons, we do that in many situations.

And the state controller audits us. Right. Most people know that I was a federal agent, but they don't know that my first two years of employment with the federal government was as an auditor. I was a federal auditor. Internal controls are boring.

They're dry, they're unbuttered toast.

I get it. But they're critical, and they're the things that often prevent bad things from happening. So, you know, I hear where Therese is coming from on this, but I do think, We have a legal obligation to make sure that we get it right, and so that when the Office of State Control comes in and audits us, they don't ding us for not having adequate internal controls, because that's one of the things the auditors do.

Did you all have a chance to, I know you've had this for some time now, did you have a chance to look at it? Do you have any questions or concerns about it? Would you like to entertain at least forwarding this draft to the highway superintendent to review? I'm not saying that it's finalized, but I know that she's been wanting to have this approved. And did we get that exhibit in there? Exhibit A? Yeah. Yeah.

So she's wanting us to, her recommendation was to approve it without any changes. And you're saying you want to, Robert and Bill, you both want to? Our counsel is saying. Because that's what Chris is saying.

Well, there's legal advice, but there's also our responsibility to ensure, remember, we're in charge of the money. So if the money is not, and the services and the money that the services goes towards, if there's not a proper accounting of those services for another municipality, then that raises a problem that also means that it's outside of our custody control and all of that stuff. So we cannot simply say have no internal controls. That's just not possible.

Certainly not something. I don't disagree with that.

I guess my question is more one of, again, of timing. Like this one has been around for a while. If she wants this and is requesting we move it along, What is our time frame of...

So one of the other things that she reminded us, we still have in place our agreement for shared services with the county with equipment. This is an expansion of our agreement.

And that expansion... That's separate from the question I asked, though.

Are you asking when is it going to be done?

I'm saying you want to make changes, I support that. I have no issue with that. But I know this has been on our agenda a bunch of times.

So let's forward it to her to see what we think is a good first draft on some internal controls. And again, this department's been doing this with other things, gas, diesel, sand, salt, so on and so forth. that you know makes it easier this may be a little bit more challenging and that you would have to do it but like we loaned our truck to town of so-and-so for three days the value of that truck and those services are X amount of days that all needs to be accounted for that's all we don't want to make it too cumbersome you know should we have a goal of when we want to when we want to well have a draft finalized I'd like to do that by October at the latest, but that's just me. I mean, I don't think we're going to get any October snows. We're not getting any snows this year. The sooner the better. Yeah. No internal controls, but obviously we can.

So you want to make changes to this draft and then forward it to her? No, no, no. I want to forward it to her now. This has the changes that you suggested.

Exhibit A is the part about the internal controls, the activities log, reimbursement, all of that. So it's adding that to the thing that she's already reviewed and said she's in support of. It's just the internal controls so we know how our equipment's being used.

Okay, have you talked to her about it?

Not beyond the emails that she sent. I think that she made herself very clear in her emails. Who's the email? It's me. Jacob?

Yeah.

So, let's try to do that between now and the first meeting in October.

I think that that's... Well, I guess the question is, Jacob, when you chat with her, really the question is...

one page of things to review.

It's not complicated.

It's not the full 13 page agreement. It's just one page for how we want to handle things in the town.

So I think that she should be able to review it and get back to us within the time frame saying here is something I'm concerned about or here's something that I would suggest changing.

And again, we can still share an emergency situation. So now we're talking about non-emergency situations. And we're closing, you know, early November typically. So, yeah, but sooner rather than later. And it has been bouncing around. So is that, is that a motion to send this along to the highway superintendent for comment and

share this to Teresa for review and feedback and I think to your question the goal of getting this done as soon as we all feel good about it motion to share with the highway superintendent is there a second?

I'll second Okay. We have the reports. We've got to get going, folks. We've got three minutes. Anybody? Jacob, do you want to say something about housing committee and updates? Of course.

I know that we have a letter from housing committee. I wasn't able to attend the last meeting, but they asked for updates about the proposals they made to us the last handful of meetings, including about emergency housing, good cause eviction, home share program. I think they're asking for thoughts and feedback from the board with respect to those proposals and basically asking what they can do to help with them all.

So could we then take some time between now and the next meeting and look at those three the one time sensitive they said was about um emergency shelter overwintering yeah um so could we take some time to discuss that um i think i've sort of filled you in what i know about what's available grant funding and uh agencies to to assist with that but Can we put that on the agenda for the next meeting so that at the very least we can share what we do know and what we do think?

Yeah, so I can get back to them and let them know that we're planning to speak about it at our next meeting. They also invited us to attend the next housing committee meeting, which is the Monday after our next meeting. It's at 6 p.m. here at Town Hall. Okay. Yeah.

OK, and then the last thing was a, and then we're going to go, I hope, is a letter from our Honorable Justice Lisa . As you know, the town justice court will acquire the village of Red Hook Justice Court in April of 2027. These are logistical issues. They have a meeting coming up this month with special counsel to town and village justices in the ninth judicial district to discuss some of the logistics. In the meantime, files, files, files, right? We were talking about records and files. So as they have been doing in the village, They are requesting the assistance of a clerk who's familiar with the process. That's Madison Hart. And they want our services so that we can progress the filing of the the files that are coming over before, so they can be processed for destruction. So we have to have records retention of those, one night per week for no more than eight hours per week. The duration of an appointment would be three to six months. Suggested rate of pay would be $18 per hour. We believe Ms. Hart, with her knowledge, loan and storage needs, doesn't provide very helpful. They've had this. underway in the village for a while now. So they anticipated submitting an application to J-CAP that has a $30,000 cap. We hope to include something else in carpet, something like that in that grant application perhaps for the remainder of that balance. This will not cover payroll. The grant will cover expenses associated. So we would need to do a budget adjustment for this. Is it for this year or for now? Well, that's not quite clear. It sort of looks like it would start this year and maybe go into the next year because it's three to six months. So we'll see if we can get a little bit more. So no action to take? Can we give the judge our initial inclination? We do have one. I mean, I'm supportive of that. I'm supportive of it. Because we want to make it a good transition.

Yeah, I'm supportive of it. The hour the rate jumps out at me is being very low. And I think as we go through our budget for next year, maybe that's the time to really evaluate, like, if we're paying someone $18 an hour, I don't consider that a living wage. Right, right.

Yeah, and this is a paralegal student, I think Madison is. So this would be sort of along the lines of like a paid internship kind of a thing, as opposed to A steady permanent job, full-time job.

What do we pay our lifeguards?

Hang on. Hang on. I totally agree with you.

I totally agree with you. I've raised hourly rates over the years. I totally agree with you.

Maybe interesting to learn what the village has been paying her for the work she's been doing.

I totally agree with you. I'm curious how this compares. We'll be having lots of conversations about bus drivers.

It says she's been working with the village.

Folks, we need to get going. I apologize. We need to get more of this, but we'll give the initial inclination to... Are we not doing the committee reports?

Because I have one quick thing to say if we're not.

We're not doing committee reports, so we're going to let them speak for themselves.

That's fine, and just real quick, Bill, your water liaison, do we have any progress on the dead ends?

Oh, you mean where the sediment? Yes. My understanding is they're discussing putting in some kind of flushing, and they're going to do it. They recognize, but the testing, there was some concern that What was building up was manganese, and it's not. It's iron. Which is its own issue, but it has to be addressed. And my understanding is that the water department is trying to get, they usually use, I think, Frank Rosberg to do their excavating work.

I guess short answer is what is the timeline of fixing it? Like six months, 12 months, 13 months? Oh, no.

I think it's for this year, right? Oh, yeah. Okay. Thank you all for coming at this time. And we could be back out for action. At this time, I would like to make a motion that we go into an executive session to discuss... pending litigation matters as it relates to, initially as it relates to the Trezza versus Town of Red Hook action. Is there a second? Second. I hope you stay healthy this September, and we'll see you back here September 23rd, if not after our executive sessions.

With that being said... It's 9.58. We're back in the meeting.

Thank you all very much for patiently waiting. At this time, we'll let you know that we discussed the town board discussed legal strategy regarding the Trezza lawsuit executive session we gave counsel direction and that's all that we can report on that at this time we would like to make a motion to enter executive session to discuss pending legal matters various a tax assessment pending matters. So there are many of them. So at this time, I'd like to make that motion. How many? 39.

Yeah, OK. You're welcome, Senator.

No, I don't want to know if he's going to list them off. But at 39? There's 39. Yes. I'm sure we can provide a list if we ask. A motion to enter executive session. Is there a second? You moved it? Okay. Second. Okay. Discussion? If not, all in favor? Christina, myself, aye.

Thank you. At the clock at 1059.

So at this time, I would like to make a motion that we direct counsel to proceed in accordance with discussion in executive session as it pertains to the pending litigation matters, Bayman et al., and the other 38 potential plaintiffs. I think I made that motion, didn't I? further discussion if not all in favor thank you very much at this time this concludes tonight's meeting alone thank you very much for your patience tonight stay healthy motion to adjourn motion to adjust