Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

Yep. No Sprinter tonight.

So this is it.

Are we all ready? No. Not ready. Everyone there is good to go? Alright. We'll call our meeting to order at 05:30. Clerk, will you please call roll?

Yes. Commissioner Deborah Polly is absent. Commissioner Frechette?

Here.

Commissioner Hewn?

Here.

Commissioner Raymond? Here. Commissioner Stoss? Here. Vice chair Stevenson?

Here.

And chair Molden? Here. Thank you. And then for can you announce the meeting's video recording, please? Tonight's meeting will be recorded via Zoom and can be viewed on the city's website within forty eight hours of adjournment of this meeting.

Great. Thank you. And then commissioner Raymon is gonna lead us in the pledge tonight. Okay. And public comments.

Members of the public wishing to address the planning commission for any matter not on the agenda may do so at this time by completing and submitting a speaker card to the planning commission clerk. For items on the agenda, speakers will be called by the chair at the point on the agenda when the item will be heard. Speakers are encouraged to keep comments to three minutes or less and to state name and community of residents. Under the provisions of the California government code, the Planning Commission is prohibited from discussing or taking immediate action on any item not on the agenda unless it can be demonstrated to be of an emergency nature or the need to take immediate action arose after the posting of the agenda. Clerk, will you, announce public comment?

Yes. We have two speaker cards. First is Larry Leroy Ladd, and then second is mayor Gatewood.

Giving you an update on all the identified contaminants concern at the Aerojet Superfund site. First one is TCE. I just came back from the online, seminar on vapor intrusion, and it gave me an opportunity to get my wall give them my walled and crazy ideas about how to add other layers of protection, like having physicians be able to test for low levels of B cell maturation antigen, which is what you find in Chinese workers exposed to TC. But that's a huge bureaucratic battle in the medical. So I'm I'm, switching over to the vet school at Davis and talking about sentinel animals.

The big debate about what's safe for humans for TCE is, are we as sensitive as chickens? And and I said, well, why don't you use chickens as sentinel animals? Have free range chickens on Area 40. And then for lymphoma, you could use golden retrievers. So I I'm trying to get as many people involved in looking at that problems. That's what that effort's for. Perchlorate, we had the national, hearing on perchlorate, and I was the only public commenter. It was very bizarre,

but it hasn't it's not

the first time it's happened. When this first started, I'd go to a public meeting, and there were a 100 PhDs arguing that it was absurd to regulate perchlorate, and they were getting $400 an hour. And then there was me. So, the the proposals are twenty, forty, or 80, and my guess, it'll never see the light of day. That's perchlorate.

PFAS, somebody in the community approached me and said they are a a personal injury litigant for PFAS explore exposure. It was a low grade grade one kidney tumor, incidentally found when they were, dealing with, kidney stones. So, I gave him the stuff that I knew about the genetics for for TCE and NDMA told them I didn't know anything about PFAS. But if this guy's telling the truth, they're getting clients. The last thing is NDMA.

Probably the biggest news there is in the corporate. They're in the process. There's a a $7,000,000,000 corporation called AE Industries, which is partnering with l three Harris to purchase all the rocket stuff, which would include Aerojet and presumably would include the the cleanup stuff. And one of the principles of AE Industries, the 7,000,000,000 is, Obama's, DARPA guy. And so I'm gonna, like, oh, yeah.

He will know what happened with perchlorated during the second Obama administration. So his name is from MIT, where they do all kinds of research on MDMA, is doctor Brothers, Reggie Brothers. So that might be a name to, track because he may if if he's bringing the expertise of MIT to cleaning up at Aerojet, that will be a big step up.

Thank you. Mayor Gatewood?

Go ahead. Start my time. Thank you. I like it here. Go ahead. Stop my time. How dare you?

No. I just wanna say thank you to my planning commission for being willing to spend countless hours working on the citizens building and keeping our city going in the right direction. I know it's a big ask. I know there's no money in it. And I just wanna say, I know you don't hear it very often, but we appreciate what you're willing to do. I appreciate you representing my community. I couldn't think of a better planning commission to have than you guys. Thank you.

Thank you, mayor.

K. We have no additional speaker cards on-site.

Okay. Thank you. So we'll close public comment. And onto the consent calendar. Consent calendar items consist of matters deemed routine and noncontroversial by staff unless a member of the planning commission wishes to pull an item. For individual consideration, all items will be approved by one motion. Are there any items Planning Commission wishes to pull from the consent calendar? K. Hearing none, we'll close public comment. Can we have a motion to approve the consent calendar?

I just wanna confirm that we have not received any speaker cards so we can close-up

the comment. I move to approve. Second. Okay. Commissioner Raymond and the second by commissioner Hoon. Is that yeah. Thank you. And then, clerk, will you call the roll,

please?

Yes. Commissioner Deborah Polly is absent. Commissioner Forschette?

Aye.

Commissioner Hoon?

Aye.

Commissioner Raymond? Aye. Commissioner Stoss? Abstain. Vice chair Stevenson?

Aye.

And chair Mauldin? Yes. Motion passes with a five o vote.

Thank you. Item five, there's no consent public hearing items. And on to item six. And clerk, will you announce the subject, please?

Yes. Item 6.1, Stone Creek quick quack car wash conditional use permit and minor design review project number PLNDDash0525Dash0129 located at 3384 Zinfandel Drive exempt per section one five three three two infill development projects of the California Environmental Quality Act, CEQUA, guidelines. Thank you.

And we have a staff report.

Thanks, Kelly. Good evening, chair and commissioners. Chance Finley Ross with the city's planning department. I'll be presenting the CUP, and minor design review for the Stone Creek quick whack car wash tonight. So just jumping into things. Let's make sure this remote works. Yeah. It's on. Oh, yeah. There we go.

Okay. Thank you. So the request before you, is to allow the construction and operation of a quick hack car wash within the Stone Creek Village development. The proposed project consists of a 3,300 square foot car wash building with a 108 foot wash tunnel and two vehicle queue lanes. The site also includes two vacuum canopy structures with 16 vacuum stations along with three employee parking spaces, a trash enclosure, mechanical equipment areas, and landscaping throughout the site.

Because a car wash is classified as a conditionally permitted use within the applicable zoning, A conditional use permit is required to evaluate the operational characteristics. While a design review is also required to ensure the site's design is consistent with the, villages of Zinfandel special planning area as well as the existing shopping center. The proposed project is situated on a 1.3 acre vacant parcel within the Stone Creek Village shopping center. It's located at the Southwest Corner of Zinfandel and Bear Hollow. It's surrounded by existing commercial uses such as Sprouts and Dutch Bros with the residential development located to the South and across Zinfandel, to the East, and a vacant lot and senior housing development, to the Northwest.

The site itself is already graded and served by existing internal drive aisles, utilities, and public infrastructure as part of the original shopping center construction. The site is designated for commercial mixed use in the city's general plan, and it's zoned for retail commercial within the villages of Zinfandel Special Planning Area. Because the special Planning Area predates the city's, incorporation, we applied the 2,003 Sacramento County code when reviewing, zoning standards. That county code requires conditional use permit for the automatic car wash use, and the commercial mixed use designation, supports neighborhood serving retail and service uses, which staff finds consistent with the proposal before you. As part of the original Stone Creek Village approval that occurred in 2021 by, city council, this parcel was conceptually shown as a future gas station site.

That conceptual gas station site was also an auto oriented use and was expected to utilize the same internal drive aisles and access points from Zinfandel and Bear Hollow Drives. No new driveways were anticipated then, and none are proposed with this project. Additionally, the 2021 approvals also included conceptual drive through pad, which is now the existing Dutch Bros. So we did receive some public comments, and I thought well, we thought it would be appropriate to kind of address that and frame these next couple slides, that they are addressing some of those concerns that we received. In general, we did complete, of course, a review of our conditional use permit.

The auto car wash does require a use permit, and the project is located on a 1.3 acre site. It's a vacant commercial pad within an approved shopping center and was previously conceptualized, as I mentioned, for an auto oriented use. The operation is fully contained on-site. It's enclosed. The equipment on-site is enclosed.

The vehicles that will be going through the tunnel are considered enclosed, and the designated vacuum areas, have different, ways of monitoring sound attenuation. And the site will have limited staffing in hours from 7AM to 9PM, which help reduce potential impacts on nearby residents. So a key focus of staff's review of the conditional use permit was, circulation and queuing, especially due to the adjacent Dutch Bros drive through. And because of that, staff required the applicant to provide queuing and traffic studies. The studies that were provided demonstrated that the project uses existing internal drive aisles and does not add new curb cuts or driveways, to the main roads.

Dedicated stacking lanes are provided to keep queuing on-site and separate from shared circulation areas. A noise study was also completed and confirmed the project would meet city standards. That includes the noise element in the general plan and the zoning standards outlined the noise standards outlined in our zoning code. The conditions of approval have also been curate for the project's operations to address queuing, noise, lighting, landscaping, and, equipment screening to ensure compatibility with the neighborhood and the existing shopping center. Overall, staff found that the proposed use is compatible with the planned commercial nature of the shopping center.

This slide shows, the proposed site layout, which provides access from the existing drive aisle that connects Zinfandel and Bear Hollow. The main car wash building is located toward the northern portion of the site oriented parallel to Zinfandel Drive. Vehicles enter near the southwest corner and queue along the east and north property lines to maximize on-site stacking. After washing, vehicles move to the vacuum stalls before exiting back to the internal drive aisles. The plan also includes a storage structure, a trash enclosure, and a low screening wall and landscaping along frontages to help screen headlights from surrounding streets.

We have a few images of the building elevations here. So staff did work with the applicant to, ensure that the proposed building elevations are compatible with the architectural character of the shopping center and the special planning area. The building incorporate incorporates finishes and stone veneer that is consistent with the Sprouts Building, and the other tenant shops there. It also has articulated parapets and a tower element to break up massing along Zinfandel Drive. It also incorporates, large storefront windows that helped the building to appear more like a cohesive commercial structure.

Staff worked with the applicant on colors and materials to better align with the Stone Creek Village theme while still allowing some limited, branding that, they had proposed. The proposed landscape plan provides, frontage planting, interior landscaping, and screening that softens views of queuing aisles, vacuum areas, and equipment. Staff required additional trees along Zinfandel Drive and Bear Hollow Drive to match the Stone Creek Village landscape palette and to ensure that project, the project integrates with the surrounding shopping center. So I see that it's a little bit hard to see, but we have a few, images here that were provided by the applicant to kinda get an idea of what everything coming together looks like. In the top left corner, we have a rendering from Bear Hollow Drive, one on the top right corner from Zinfandel, and then the one on the bottom would be from the newly built apartments to the south.

There was a community meeting that was held, in October 2025. The notice for this meeting was provided to nearby property owners in the broader Stone Creek neighborhood. Residents primarily raised concerns about traffic, queuing, noise, and proximity to homes. Staff and the applicant discussed the site circulation, design, enclosed equipment, and limited hours of operations. Feedback from the meeting did inform the recommended conditions of approval, particularly related to queuing, noise, and screening.

For environmental review, the project qualifies for CEQA exemption under fifteen three three two, which is, for infill development projects that are five acres or less. The 1.3 acre site is a vacant previously graded commercial pad within existing urban urbanized shopping center and is consistent with the general plan and zoning. Staff reviewed traffic, noise, air quality, and utilities With conditions of approval, enclosed equipment, and limited hours, the project meets city standards and would not result in significant environmental impacts beyond those previously analyzed for the project site.

So

with that, staff does recommend that the planning commission determine the project exempt per SQL guidelines section fifteen three three two for infill development projects and adopt the resolution approving the conditional use permit and minor design review for the Stone Creek quick pack car wash, with the project plans and conditions of approval. And that concludes my presentation.

Thank you. And do we have public comment?

We do. I've received three speaker cards. First is Larry Leroy Ladd, then I have Steven Davis and Valerie Nipschild.

Just a little background on the original quick quack on Sunrise And Zinfandel, where there was a fair amount of, opposition to traffic and whatnot. And my understanding from this side, it's gonna be close to residential. That's different because there's no residential close to that site. But I gotta admit, the quick quack on Sunrise And Zinfandel has boosted the area in general. What was previously a pretty ugly corner, especially when the whole shopping center was empty, people are there all the time.

It's well lit. The one thought I had as well, if they build another quick cracker, there's gonna be enough people, keep to keep the other one busy. And my guess is yes, especially as you're building more houses. There's probably enough demand because there's the demand at the one at Simphantel and Sunrise is is is constant. So they can probably afford to slack off a little bit, and some people down south don't have to come up all the way. So, anyway, if you've got residents to complain, they have a right to complain because it is a busy place. But, the quick quack on Sunrise and Zinfandel has been a real success, in my opinion.

Thank you.

Mister Davis?

Hello, everybody. So I live off of Bear Hollow. There's a Sunrise location, 1.3 miles from this location. Quick whack. There's also this infidel and Sunrise that the gentleman was just talking about, 3.1 miles away from this location currently. Why do we need another one in a residential? And here's the two kickers that you guys need to remember. Those two locations have nobody living next to them. Nobody living next to them. There's no neighbors.

There's no nothing. There's just businesses. That's a business, and I'm happy for business. I'm I want business, and I I'm I'm super happy for something happening in Rancho because everybody knows nothing happens in Rancho. Real quick thing.

Quick Quack Car Wash locations have faced noise complaints regarding high decibel air blowers and, in some cases, violation of local operating hours, particularly in Sacramento and in Tempe, Arizona. Residents have reported excessive noise from vacuum dryers, which sometimes exceeds the allowable city limits. Dryer noise, the high powered blowers at the end of the tunnel are primary source of noise, which reports for them operating without proper or inadequate noise reduction equipment. I I just I don't think you guys understand, and I don't think you have been to a quick quack location and listened to a quick quack location. If you go to the one on Sunrise right over here, there's a little restaurant right next door.

What is it? Urban something salad place or whatever. You can't sit outside. It's that noisy. And guess what? I have a quick, quick year membership. My wife and I, I wash my truck whenever I wanna wash my truck. I love it. It's fantastic. It just doesn't need to be next to these houses. Right next door to those houses and all those pictures that you're showing before this, there's nothing there. There's a bunch of trees in those pictures. Fantastic. That looks amazing. There's not a tree there. Go to go drive down the street. It's right here. We can we can go down Data Drive and go right to it. It's not far. There's no trees over there. There's not one tree that that matches any of those pictures. And then QuickQuack, like, the the overall diagram of it, it shows a bunch of trees in the background. No. No. No.

Those are gonna be covers with vacuum cleaners and all that stuff. I mean, I go to QuickQuack, and there is nothing but loud music being played. There are people that just hang out there. Nobody seems to the people that work there, maybe they just need a little bit more training, but they do not police the area like they should. There's a lot of trash. There's a lot of people that just kinda hang out. I mean, if you've been to any one of the quack quack locations, and I'm sure we all have, they're all over the place. It's just not needed in our neighborhood. I mean, you guys talked about a gas station. Well, I mean, according to 2024, February 2024, Sacramento said no new gas stations.

So by 2040, there's gonna be no got new gas stations being built in all Sacramento. So I oppose no to this. So thank you guys for your time.

Thank you.

Miss Nipschild?

The last time I was in front of a hearing, you guys weren't around. Thank you for being here. I would like to address the proposed development in the Sprouts Shopping Center and its potential impact on the Stone Creek community. We have already observed significant congestion in the parking lot, particularly during promotional events at Dutch Brothers, where lines frequently encircle the center. I confess I have been there for one of those events.

I had to get a duck. The addition of another quick whack location in this vicinity will only exacerbate an already strained situation. It is important to note that we already have two similar establishments nearby, so this is not about meeting an unmet need, but rather about overconcentration and resulting in traffic burden. Beyond traffic concerns, there are broader issues regarding this treatment of this community by Elliot Homes. Many residents feel that Stone Creek have not received the same level of care, planning, or investment as other Elliot home communities such as Roseville, Elk Grove, Lincoln, and Folsom.

Decisions like approving warehouse developments and continued high pack commercial expansion give the impression that this neighborhood is being overlooked and undervalued. This matter is significant because it directly affects our quality of life and the value of our homes, and we have diligent that we have diligently invested in. Increased congestion, noise, over development erode the character of our community and make it less viable for residents or not viable, livable for residents. We are not opposed to growth, but we must be thoughtful, balanced, and respectful to the existing residents. I urge the councilor to carefully consider not count the, commissioners to carefully consider adding another high traffic business to an already congested area and adopt more equitable approach to the development of Stone Creek in the future.

We all aspire to a community that is safe, welcoming, and well planned. I request that you assist in safeguarding the vision of Stone Creek. I request that the project not be approved. Thank you.

Yeah. Thank you.

I've received no additional speaker cards for speakers in the room. We did receive several emails, or public comments via email. Those have been distributed to planning commission posted on our website as well as in the back of the room available for the public. Those public comments were from Lindsay Mandigo, Christy Talbert, Kathleen Webster, James Garcia, Alan Poppy, Marilyn Metzger. I have two from anonymous members of the public, and then three additional from James Garcia, Timothy Johnson, Gina Duran, and Tabitha Jensen.

K. Thank you. The public comment period is now closed. And then

I sent in public comment. My name was mentioned.

I was back in August.

Public comment cutoff time is at 02:00. So if it was sent out after 02:00.

After the quick crack meeting.

There there was one that was received from, economic development forwarded at that time.

Chair, we could add that public comment to the record. We can also, we'll add it to the civic clerk online so that it's available. Okay. Great.

Thank you.

If you want to reopen the public comment to allow her the opportunity to speak on the letter that she submitted since we don't have it, you have

the ability to do that. Would you like to do that? Did you wanna speak to that? Okay. We'll go ahead and reopen the public comment period.

My name is Vera Ferguson, and I leave live in Stone Creek on just off of Baroque. And only been here five years, but ever since we moved here, I see the struggle for the growth. And as the lady spoke earlier, it's getting very congested. And for somebody that is struggling with health issues, I value clean air. And with the potential logistics center going in and then now this quick quack, just more pollution, more noise, It doesn't bring any value at all to our properties.

I think it deteriorates the value. And my concern is that, you know, it just it's not gonna be good for my health or the health, especially for the people living right in that immediate area. I mean, you've approved a a beautiful retirement center there just across the street. And these people might like to sit outside and enjoy the sunshine on days, and they won't be able to with that quik quack going all day long. It just doesn't make sense for a beautiful community like this to have a car wash right in the center of a housing community.

And like everybody mentioned already, we have several other car washes in the area. So it's not about, like, you know, fitting fitting a need. So I hope that you do see that and value the residents' health and well-being and joy to be in this area, because I don't think I would enjoy it after that, especially if the logistics center goes in as well. So thank you for your time.

Thank you. Okay. And we'll go ahead and close the public comment period again. Thank you. And I understand we have Price Walker from the developer's side to online who wants to speak to some of the comments.

We're just moving him over as a panelist so he can speak.

I'll resist the urge to put hold music on.

Mister Walker, you should be able to un unmute and speak now.

Can you hear me, Darcy?

We can hear you.

Okay. First of all, madam chair, thank you for letting me speak, and I apologize for popping on late. I was unable to attend tonight in person, but I did wanna I did wanna say just a couple of words, give some context and history. You know, we've we've owned the Stone Creek Village of the Zinfandel project for, gosh, now probably over twenty years. As most of you know, it started as a as an old mining pit and was it we were able to read read basically redevelop it and and bring it back to what we what we have today.

The the Stone Creek Village project of which this quarter parcel is a small piece of was originally 25 acres of commercial. It was the, frankly, one of the last pieces to be obviously to be developed, and as kind of most developments happened, including others that we've done in Folsom, in Roseville, in Elk Grove, in Gault, in other places, the commercial almost always comes last. You need rooftops to to provide homes and and residents for for the the the commercial. So when we had the 25 acres of commercial, it was pretty clear to us. We tried and tried and tried at the urging of council member Budge for years to to get a grocery store.

Every everyone wanted a grocery store in the region and it was very difficult, but we tried and kept trying. Ultimately, we working with staff, Darcy's staff and and and others made the kind of the decision, it was a good one to take the 25 acre commercial piece and kind of break it up into thirds and make it into what's called a kind of a horizontal mixed use project. And that's what was approved and I think it sounds like and I jumped on late, I'm sorry, but it sounded like it sounded like the planner showed that site plan and basically it was a third commercial, a third apartments, and a third single family or or the the patio homes veranda that we have done in the past. And so even with a third, third, third, it took some some doing and if if some of you recall, maybe some of you on this call didn't want apartments there. There was a there was opposition to the apartments thinking apartments were going to, you know, quote unquote ruin the the community and and ruin the neighborhood and and, you know, we think the apartments are have turned out really nice.

We're very proud of the apartments. We're proud of of our veranda and frankly, we're very very proud of of the Sprout Center. The Sprout Center itself has been very difficult to fill. Retail today is very difficult. This corner site has been one of the most difficult.

Yes. We had originally thought it was going to be a gas station, and we had two different gas stations under contract. Frankly, both of them had car washes, and with some discussion points with some of the leaders in town, We started not looking at at gas stations. Not so much because of gas station, but because every gas station wanted a convenience market with it. With convenience market, they wanted alcohol sales with it. They wanted to be up later. Then then we thought the neighborhood should should have to deal with. And so we kind of turned away from that. Quick quack came forward and honestly, we've we've known quick quack on some other sites that we've done with them. They're community based.

They started here. We have found them to be a very good neighbor. They have listened to our concerns on the design. They've listened to staff's design concerns and have come up, I I believe, with a project now that will will in fact fit in. It's it's not, in my view, surrounded by homes.

It's surrounded on one side by a six lane busy busy street that will only get busier, not because of this project, but because of that's how it was designed. There's a large buffer between the homes behind, obviously, behind Sprouts and then there's no homes across the across the one street and there, of course, are homes behind the sound wall and behind the the six lanes. So, yes, there are homes around it. It's not in the middle of homes though, and I think they've done a really good job to quite honestly hear some of the concerns that we had and staff had. And as the as the developer, we are very proud of Stone Creek and we would feel very good having this project approved to it.

And I'll certainly answer any questions.

Thank you.

Of course.

You okay? Alright. Well, we will open it up now for planning commission comments and questions.

I've got a couple of questions.

I knew you might. First

off, going back to your presentation on page three. It's I think it's the first or second slide you showed in your presentation showing the original gas station. There, you show a driveway directly connected to the gas station entering off of Zinfandel. And then now with the QuickQuack location, that has obviously been removed, and it's you know, they're gonna be entering either farther down Zinfandel or off of Bear Hollow. It and I'm just I'm I'm kinda struck by that because it seems that in business that is geared solely towards automobiles, you'd want that immediate access off of Zinfandel.

Now I understand it probably doesn't work with the layout of the car wash and the shape of the lot, but it it just strikes me that it's it's not quite apples to apples when we're saying that, well, originally, it was intended for an automobile use or business. Does that really I guess the question I'm asking is, is that a fair assessment that that the current layout doesn't really lend itself as well to automobile entry into the site?

Well well, thanks for your question, chair commissioner Frischette. I do wanna point out that the two drive aisles that you see here, there's one to the, I guess, plan north. I wish I could zoom in. Yeah. That's a Gentleman. Okay. It's okay. Both of the drive aisles that you see, one of them is right in front of the Sprouts Building there to the south. Mhmm. And one is to the plan north.

Those are those are the same exact drive aisles that are currently constructed. So no nothing is no new connections are being proposed onto Zinfandel or Bear Hollow. And there weren't any proposed as part of that conceptual gas station at the time either.

See that. Okay. I'm just yeah. Looking at from the drawing, it looks like the drive aisle that showed for the gas station is closer to Bear Hollow. The Zinfandel Drive Isle is closer to Bear Hollow than what is shown for the quick crack op I can layup. But that's they're the same? One of the same?

Yeah. They are. I think I could see what what you're saying. I think it's the positioning of the gas station. It's more towards where the gas station is, I think that's where their two queuing lanes are. So it might look a little bit different from the old photo, but they've kinda did it done a different site layout.

Okay. Because I was interpreting the curb cut in the in figure six as being what that where that original drive aisle would have been.

Now I do wanna clarify. Are you talking about internal drive aisles?

No. The entrance No. The curb cut to Zinfandel.

Yeah. They're they're the same. They're the same.

Okay. Then just in going through the findings, I have a few questions with regard to the findings. In two two dot a, it talks about that the maintenance or or operation of the building or structure would not, under the circumstances of this particular case, be detrimental to the health, safety, peace, morals, comfort, or well-being of persons residing in the neighborhood. But it seems to me that some of that's somewhat subjective, especially when you get to things like peace and general welfare and also, to a lesser extent, safety. I'm I'm concerned just because I am a resident of Villages Of Zinfandel, Stone Creek, and I see the tremendous amount of traffic that's already in that location, both vehicle traffic and, fortunately, a lot of pedestrian traffic.

The, ice cream shop there draws a huge number of people year round, and a lot of those people walk there. And it just every time I drive by, there's a lot of people walking around in that parking lot already. And once, Dutch Bros opened up, there there have been some conflicts between pedestrians and vehicle traffic in the parking lot. And now we're proposing to add more vehicle traffic to that parking lot. So from my perspective, that really raises a concern about safety.

And I'm curious as to how we arrived at the decision that, safety wouldn't be impacted. And then, again, in terms of peace and general welfare, that seems awfully subjective for a report to be saying that there'd be no impact to peace or general welfare. Okay.

If you'd like the staff respond, please.

Yeah. So I I I do wanna point out that a queuing analysis was provided by the applicant for on-site. They also provided a traffic analysis to show how the development would impact the Bear Hollow, Zinfandel, and surrounding streets. I I do wanna clarify as well that the finding is not that there won't be any impact. I think that we need to come at it from a perspective where there's always gonna be an impact from development.

The staff's staff's way of looking at it would have to be, is it more than what was anticipated for the site? So we have to see what the intensity of the use is. And when you look at this site, it was it was determined before, conceptually that it would be an auto centric use. So we are kinda going off of that and the different conditions that we're able to put onto the project that we have put on the project and that the applicant has agreed to that help to reduce those impacts from the traffic. That includes, stacking, limitations, making sure that everything remains on-site.

They have designed their site layout to, prevent pedestrians from, having too many conflicts with their, the vehicle queuing. And, yeah, I I do think it's important for us to to kinda get more into it if if that's what you'd like. So I can I can ask either, the applicant to kind of provide some more background on how they anticipate the internal traffic to be affected by the project, if you'd like?

Yeah. I've I'm I'm very concerned about the traffic. And I don't mean to, you know, be getting down on both QuickQuack or Elliot. Elliott's been a great partner to the city and continues to be. And, QuickQuack, although it did have its roots here and was started here, you know, it was recently sold in the last year and is no longer a local company. But that's, you know, beside the point. But I do have some really serious concerns about safety and traffic in that parking lot, given my daily observations observations as as I I drive drive by by every every day, day as I go down Bear Hollow towards my home?

So, yeah, we we could actually ask the applicant to come up to maybe address your concerns a little bit more. Yeah.

Hi. My name's Don Shively. I'm with QuickQuack. I represent them. And with me, I have Nick Wecker, who represents the architect of record. He can answer technical questions. I cannot answer operational questions. First and foremost, QuickQuack did not sell out to a different entity. It's still owned by the same founders of it. So that that that's the misinformation that I wanna clear up with that.

QuickWack is very pleased to to bring this application before you. We've been working with the city staff for the last little over a year. We would listen to their concerns. We would address their concerns, and, we would, work through these issues. As they had questions about the technical aspects of it, we reached out to, consultants in that field to provide documentation for the staff to review, which was on the drive, the traffic on the sound, on the, landscaping, and we were able to give that information to the staff.

The staff reviewed that and presented these findings to you that offered support for this because we meet the standards and the, the goal of, the the community. What we do is we wash cars. We're very good at it. We wash a lot of cars, 50,000,000 cars a year on it. We know what we're doing with it. We know how to build these things so that they're a a jewel in your community as opposed to a thorn in your side on it. So we we're here to answer any questions that you may have concerning our project.

Okay. Well, my first question would be that it at best, it's a constrained site, and you've done a a really good job of making the operation fit in the, land available. But given the fact that you're immediately adjacent to another auto centric business, the Dutch Pro drive thru car wash, and the fact that we have a couple other businesses there that attract a fair amount of traffic, including one that attracts a lot of pedestrian traffic. What were your considerations in evaluating the traffic and safety of that? And, you know, what mitigation measures did you consider in that, process?

Yeah. Again, my name

is Nick Wecker. I'm with Core States. We are the civil engineer and architect of record for QuickQap Car Wash. And our office works very closely with city staff for about a year. And they've been they've been tough, but they've also been very fair and reasonable.

And we work closely together to collaborate on design ideas and mitigation to help alleviate that potential traffic congestion issue with proximity to the existing Dutch Bros. Original design had our queuing lane and exit much closer to the what's the current drive through entrance for Dutch Bros. So to alleviate that potential bottleneck, we did make significant plan revisions to maximize separation between our queuing lane entrance and the Dutch Bros entrance. Same thing with our exit. Our vacuums are also isolated and so that there's no back out into the existing shopping center drive aisles, so it's all contained.

We engage traffic consultant to prepare a detailed traffic and queuing analysis to ensure, based on local QuickQuack data, that we would be able to contain our queue on-site without spillover into the adjacent drive aisles. Those findings found that max queue expected to this site is expected to be five vehicles from as measured from the pay station or the QB station as as QuickWack has it labeled on on this site plan here. The queuing lane is designed to be able to accommodate up to 12 vehicles. So we have more than double the capacity of what our traffic engineer found for queuing. We're maintaining the existing street corner treatment, which was important to city staff and us as well in terms of maintaining a lot of the pedestrian circulation pattern, which also includes a sidewalk along the main entry as well.

We also considered, visual impacts of queuing and added a three foot, high stone, wall that'll match, be very compatible with the existing monument sign at that street corner and have the same stone treatment, and that'll be along the queuing lanes and the exit lane outside the wash. I will speak to noise too in terms of kind of the subjectifying in terms of safety, general welfare. We also engaged an acoustical engineer to perform a noise study for this site with a number of receptors, one across Zinfandel where there's single family residential, another across Bear Hollow where there's the senior living facility, and then also third receptor being the multifamily apartments across the main primary drive aisle within Stone Creek. And the findings found that noise would be at 50 to 52 decibels as a worst case scenario, and that's with all equipment, blowers, vacuums running all at the same time. For reference, that's that's would be from, you know, the receptor, and that is, like, roughly less than what your standard refrigerator would be for for noise.

So, you know, through the last year working with staff, we have made sure to go through and really cross our t's, daughter i's on this design and come up with a product that we can be really pleased with and feel like it's going to serve the community in this area really well.

Okay. So what I didn't hear you mention in talking about the traffic, your max queue, and you're able to contain your expected queue line inside your the boundaries of the site. But how many cars per day do you expect to draw into the facility?

I can speak to net increase from the traffic study because car washes are are tend to be a a pass by trip generator in in that, meaning it's not a destination. Like, it's not a Sprouts or that ice cream shop. It's not people are generally on their way to work or they're getting their car washed after the grocery store. There's a internal trip capture component since it's already a commercial developed site. And so the traffic study found that there'd be an average daily trip net increase of 540 trips with 25 occurring during the PM, peak hour between, three and 5PM.

So divided by 15, it's equivalent of about 40 an hour. Okay.

And the current parking lot and entry drive aisles off of Bear Hollow and Zinfandel, that we don't believe that'll be a significant impact to the to the entrance to those draw vials?

No. We do not.

Was any consideration given to the pedestrian traffic in that parking lot? Because it it it experiences more pedestrian traffic than a typical parking lot due to the ice cream parlay there.

Yeah. That that's understood. We've maintained the existing sidewalks through the center, including at the corner, but also the entry into the actual center itself. We've also isolated our vacuums and, drive aisles to be internal to just our pad, in order to to minimize any potential impact to pedestrian crossings or or circulation within the center.

The main impact would the 540 cars a day that would be going through the parking lot to get to your site. Right?

Correct. Over over the entire day, that would be the main impact. But, again, a car wash use similar to a gas station is is primarily a pass by generator. So there's a good likelihood any use that if this wasn't a car wash or a gas station would would potentially create a lot more traffic into the center for for a vacant pad because there's there's nothing there today.

We would expect that we're capturing half of that 540 coming out of Sprouts, coming out of Dutch Brothers, coming out of the apartments. So we're capturing that business out there. It's not new additional, but that's the amount that we imagine that we will be capturing into our car wash through our car wash.

Okay. So it sounds like you did some analysis with regards to that. Did that analysis include how much traffic you would expect to be entering off of Bear Hollow versus entering off of Zinfandel?

I believe our our traffic study captures that, which was reviewed as part of the part of the record in terms of distribution of trips. But, obviously, both driveways in the existing condition would be used without any modifications to existing access.

Okay. Don, I had just a quick question for you. I thought that Travis Kimball sold his interest in QuikWak. No. So he's still

Yes. I was with him in the office last week.

Okay.

So so I I I don't know where that information's coming from.

Okay. That's just surprising given who told me that, but I'll take you at your word for that. Okay. Okay. Let's see.

So just going down my notes here. I think, really, as far as my questions for the applicant, that kinda covers it. I'm still, like I said, as far for staff, I'm still concerned about the subjective nature of some of these findings, you know, general welfare, peace, comfort. It seems just terribly subjective, and I don't know how we decide what is an impact there and what isn't. And I do acknowledge that all development has impact, both good and bad, hopefully more good than bad.

We don't expect I don't expect businesses new businesses to locate here without some kind of impact on the community. But I am concerned by the subjective nature of some of the findings in the staff report.

I'd be happy to help address that if you don't mind. For those that don't know me, Darcy Gullard, Community Development Director. So I won't disagree with you. This is these findings are a little bit old. They do come from the very old, you know, 2002 county code.

Most current findings that we utilize in our code that you'll see a lot of jurisdictions no longer use those terms terms like peace, morals, welfare. They're hard to kind of capture. When we're looking at findings, we're capturing that on solid data. So we're looking at traffic studies, noise studies, that very, easy tangible data that we can look at to look at it and go, this meets, you know, our findings. But like Chance was saying, you also address that through design, site layout, conditions of approval.

So when we're looking at those findings and we're looking at some of these older terms, we're having to basically look at that through the lens of how can we, through conditions of approval, do our best to meet the overall intent of what that finding means. So it means is it compatible with a neighborhood? Have the conditions of approval been put in place to meet all of those standards? Do we have our our studies that when we look at them, they're not hitting a threshold that requires, you know, a great significant impact? So, when we're looking at the finding, that's what we're looking at.

It may not fully address, you know, your question of having that gray area of what does peace, morals, and welfare mean. Again, we no longer utilize those terms because they are very hard to capture. But through the studies that have been done for the project, the overall site layout, the changes that have been made through the process, Keeping in mind what the commission sees when we bring forward a project to you, that could be the third or fourth site plan layout or design. So we have worked with the applicant to get to a point that we believe meets the intent of the villages and Zinfandel Special Planning Area, the zoning code in place, the general plan, as well as all the development standards. So hopefully, that helps give you a little bit of clarity.

Thank you, Darcy. I appreciate that. So just a follow-up question on that. So normally, we would be looking these days at compatibility with the neighborhood, you said. Would not the objections of a significant number of the residents of the neighborhood indicate that there might be some issues with compatibility?

Certainly, as your job as the commission is to obviously take in all of the input that you're hearing. So you're looking at staff's recommendation, the conditions we brought forward, your findings, as well as what community concerns would be. So community concerns are obviously part of the process. It is a public process, so you would take those into consideration. And part of that is is thinking about what are their concerns and have those been addressed? Could they be addressed by some tweaks or another condition or working with the applicant on something? So those are things that as the commission, you have to sort of kind of dissect a little bit. If you're hearing noise let's take example, noise. You're hearing concerns about noise. The applicant has provided an acoustical study.

They have looked at various locations where when we measure noise, we measure from what that sensitive receptor is to where the location of the noise is coming from. So we're not doing it at the where the noise is coming from. We're actually going to where that sensitive receptor would be. So you you start looking at how can we resolve those concerns. So certainly, you're taking into consideration what the concerns of the public are. So as the commission, it is part of your process to to listen to that and how can we resolve those concerns. So you do take that into consideration as well.

Thank you. Thank you. I I hear a lot of talk about traffic and traffic studies and internal mitigation. But I think my biggest problem really with the traffic that would be generated by this business in this location is really not the internal. It seems that that's been worked out really well.

Everybody's focused very well on that. But my concerns are the external traffic, particularly the traffic on Bear Hollow and the traffic inside the shopping center parking lot that you have to traverse to get to the quick crack site. And I'm just not convinced at this point in time that those concerns have been adequately addressed, at least for me. I'm gonna give it a break here because I've held the floor for a while. Let one of somebody else take it.

Thank you. I'm gonna ask the audience too if you'll be respectful of people speaking up here and staff too so that we can make sure to get through everyone's comments and hear every everyone. Who else?

While we have the while we have the applicant here, I just have a a quick question. What's your busiest day?

You think Saturday, but it varies. It could be after a rainstorm, which would be a Monday.

It could well, in in in So our neck of the woods, it only rains a small portion of the year.

Then So

Generally speaking

was pretty consistently, straightforward.

Thinking of the summer. Yeah. So Saturday is your busiest day. I knew that. What's regarding the pedestrian traffic, what is the busiest day for handles and sprouts?

I

it seem any any any day when the temperature's over 80 degrees is what it seems to be, But I see a line over there. Believe it or not, I'm bringing my granddaughters home from church service on you know, at Christmas, and there's a line of people at the window there at Handel's ice cream. And, of course, you know, the granddaughters wanna stop, but it's like, it's Christmas Eve. It's 40 something degrees outside, and people are standing in the line waiting for ice cream.

Well, their ice cream is that good. But I I've I've been there at that ice cream shop on a on a summer Saturday, and I I actually waited nearly an hour in line for that ice cream, and it's very good. But there was a lot of pedestrian traffic. And my point is that parking lot on a Saturday is going to be amazingly impacted throughout the summer, with the quack quack.

And and that is a a valid, explanation for that. That's why we have the ability to have this membership base where if it's too busy, they'll move on to one of our other stores and, capture the service that way. That we offer convenience to your to your customer or to your, constituents. What we do is we take the burden of washing their car, which the EPA says they use a lot of water, and and we make it convenience for them where they can wash their car in five minutes instead of two hours, which would be a typical wash day.

I'm I'm not criticizing the quick quack operation. My my wife is a member. I can't be. My vehicle's far too big for your system, but, my wife goes there twice a week. We love your service. It's outstanding. There there are a few other issues with it. And the and the prod the job that the the architect in civil has done, I mean, I I look at these plans every day and and fantastic job. But we have other issues to deal with, and we'll wait till for the others to speak, and I'll I'll get back to it.

Well, that's well, yeah. I mean, you're Hold on. Okay. We may as well keep it going.

Here we go.

So I think you're making a case, though.

Okay. The you're right there behind the Stone Creek sign. Stone Creek was was marketed and developed as more of a higher end part of Rancho Cordova, which was much needed in our community. People pay premiums to move in there. And that that, monument sign is it kinda demarks the center of Stone Creek.

That's what you see. And when you see a car wash right behind it, I think that maybe diminishes the essence of that neighborhood. Like I said, I'm not against quack quack, but this particular location is highly visible, and it's supposed to be the focal point of this high end neighborhood. So I'm having a difficult time reconciling those two things. And then furthermore, we talk a lot about the noise studies and the findings and the vacuums and the decibel levels and all that stuff.

Those are all very concrete things we can look at. But when we look at reality, if you ever go over to the Sunrise and, Zinfandel location, it's not the vacuums that are the problem. It's the people cranking up their stereos to overcome the vacuums. So now the decibel levels get higher. I understand you have rules, but there is zero enforcement. So that is a I see that as a potential problem.

Is there a question, on all of this that I can answer for you? Because I mean, these

are can we how can we assure the the the community that we're not gonna have four people cranking up their stereos to overcome the vacuums. Well, we police it.

We have, a a sign that says the quietness. However, there is a noise ordinance that the city can enforce, and you have the teeth that have that, the ability to do that, whether it's on quick whack or whether it's on the, participants that are creating the volume.

Yeah. Commissioner Regardless of what business is there, though, you're if you got a gas station there, wouldn't you face the

same issues? Crank up the their stereos to overcome the vacuums.

So it

adds up.

Do they I mean, that's arguable if they do or not.

It happens at Sunrise and Zinfandel all the time. I see it

a lot.

Well, it hasn't been my experience there, but I'm saying a gas station could produce the same thing. So Gotcha. At any rate

But are we gonna rely on the Rancho Cordova police to police the the the noise levels

that are that are

not related to your operations?

I I I would think that if if there's a disturbance called in, that if we aren't handling it, that police would happen would have to respond to that.

I'm just I'm viewing I'm just viewing it from the the the people who live there now. And as the the one speaker said, if if I wanna go out on my patio on a Saturday morning, enjoy the the the birds and the sun, and I'm I'm hearing bump bump bump from the stereos and the vacuums and everything, that's not very pleasant. And so

Is that coming from quick quack, or is that coming from a a vehicle coming down the street? Fair point. Fair point. So so I I wanna be fair here and not, say that we're the big bad guy.

You're not the bad guy.

Okay. That that that's that's all I wanna do. And and I understand the the the concern that the commissioner has when he lives across the street and he's part of the HOA as well and that he has a vested interest in this. And so I I hear these things, and and we've addressed it. We've worked with the staff on this. We've given you a fantastic product that we will be a proud steward of the resources that are entrusted with us.

Commissioner Hewen, I'd also, like to add, if I may. We have added a condition to the project regarding if we receive operational complaints. We would have access to those operational complaints if we request them from the applicant. And if we find that there are operational things that are occurring on-site, we can actually take another look at the conditional use permit and possibly impose other conditions that could limit whatever those impacts might be. So you have some recourse built in.

Yeah. Yeah. So that would be I I think it's condition number 21 if you wanna take a look at that. Understood. Yeah.

Chair madam chair, can I speak real quick?

Sure. It's I assume it's price yeah.

It is. I'm sorry. I I just I I'm hearing some issues that really are are successes. I mean, one person's congestion is another person's busy, And I'm really glad to hear the center is busy. We, for many, many months, were dealing with Sprouts who were complaining to us that no one was in their pro in their store. And that we needed these pads done. Since they've gone including Dutch Bros has gone in, Sprouts' numbers have gone up. They're very excited to get the project built and fulfilled. And I know congestion has a negative connotation. Busy has a good connotation.

And I think to to address commissioner Huehn, I I I think these folks have done a good job to try to limit congestion, but still allow the center to be busy.

Thank you.

Any okay.

No questions.

Yeah. So mine's just for the applicant. And to be fair, I haven't made up my mind yet. We just approved a car wash in our neighborhood. So every neighborhood has car washes.

My question is when I'm sitting here and this came to me, I think about your QuickWack in Folsom, Watt Avenue, the two we have in Rancho, which I'm a member of and I love, Citrus Heights, Arden, they're not all necessarily in a residential neighborhood. So when I think of those locations, they're more on a Sunrise Boulevard or a Watt Avenue type of a thing. Do you have even Arden Way and the one over by Expo, those are not in in in neighborhoods. So do you have any that are this close to other neighborhoods? And what has your experience been with the neighbors in those neighborhoods?

I am facing that in Vegas right now. I mean, we're I am close to residential, and I have to go through the same exact process, the same type of questions that are being asked with it. But we're we're we're dealing with, as Price said, that we need rooftops to bring businesses in. And it's hard to put a business in before rooftops. It it just doesn't happen.

And so the land that's remaining is an acre of raw land here that is when we analyze it and we saw that, okay, a car wash use is gonna be require a CUP, there's gonna be a lot of hoops that we have to jump through. We we're prepared to go through that process because we're the last guy coming in. In a in a development project, we're oftentimes the first guy coming in because what we do is we capture business as it's going down the road, not because they're thinking, waking up in the morning, I'm gonna wash the car. It's because they're going to the nursery to to drop off their child or they're going to get their cup of coffee, and that we'll put our car wash in in that development. We know that in over the next ten years, there will be additional development that happens in there, and it's synergy that happens.

But we we are capturing drive by traffic.

It's not my question. My question is

question is, we we face this all the time everywhere. But

do you have any existing ones in the neighborhood?

Absolutely. Just just like this. Absolutely. Homes are across the street from it. Absolutely.

So that I'm asking what's your experience been with those homes in those neighborhoods? Because the ones I'm thinking of aren't in neighborhoods.

The the the same concerns that I hear here are are repeated everywhere, whether it's in Seattle, whether it's

So in you have an operational quick quack in

Oh, yeah.

In Seattle. What are the concerns you're hearing from those

those thing that we we don't want we don't like it. You guys use too much water. You guys have loud stereos. I mean, people are thinking that the seventies, growing up, that we we have car washes, and they're playing the loud music, and there's drugs that are happening in our in our, parking lot. That's not the case anymore. These are clean, established places.

I agree.

And and so we put them in neighborhoods where it's allowed use, where it's I have to go through the CEP. Homes are across the street. Homes are I I I never can put a a a quick quack where a home is next door to me. It it it's very rare that a city doesn't have the ordinance, in place. Sometimes there are, and we're able to put it in that neighborhood as long as we meet the standards. We follow the sound, requirements, any traffic requirements. As long as we follow them, we meet those standards, we demonstrate that we are in line with the city standards, then we're passed and we're approved.

Donna, think there's some clarification. Price sorry. Just some clarification. I think Yes. Commissioner Stoss is asking, like, with your operational ones at the moment, have there been any what kind of if any complaints are occurring with the existing operational quic quacks that are in these residential neighborhoods, as you're saying, What are those complaints if there's any?

You're saying

existing. Yes. What I'm saying. I'm just asking what are the ongoing operational

Absolutely. We we face those kinds of issues. And they'll say, our our noise, you're too noisy. You're you're you obviously are are louder than than what you had projected. And in the CUP or in the conditions of approval, they'll put it that we have to be monitored from time to time at random times to to come in and demonstrate that we meet the standards that we promised that we would be. So that's not news to us. That's not difficult for us to do. We're we're happy to abide by these things. We say we can do something. We're gonna do that.

That was all I was asking. Was just and so a neighbor comes to you and says, I haven't been able to get my baby to sleep all day because you guys have had you guys would address that.

We're gonna be sensitive to that neighbor, but, honestly, that neighbor should go to the city, have the city come to us because the city has the the teeth.

Okay. Well, we're the city.

Thank you.

Yeah.

I'd like to add just something to that in terms of, vacuum technology. Our office, like I said, we're a civil engineer. We work with a lot of car washes, not just QuickWack, in the Pacific Northwest, and in throughout California. And I think what we see with QuickWack too is, one, the vacuum technology. They put their producers in a fully enclosed, building, And so that helps mitigate a lot of the noise impact. We're all familiar with those that have the coin operated vacuums. Those are

I don't think it's a vacuum. I think the noise is coming from when you're exiting the car wash. That's where it's I mean, I'm a member, so I know when my truck goes through there, that's where it's the loudest, that when it's leaving the car wash.

Sure. I understood. On one side of the building. The vacuums can have a bigger impact because they're covering a lot larger impact of the site, right? And so that part of it, we've seen in terms of QuickQuack really investing in that technology. They're also holstered so that when they're not in use, they're also not making noise. So most of time when you're when they're making noise, they're in someone's vehicle. And so the combination of the producer being in a fully enclosed building and the vacuum is being being holstered does certainly help, in our in our experience in going to these commission meetings and having to speak to these concerns.

I'll say, first off, I appreciate the public comments that we we received. I love seeing the engagement and participation from the community. And I hope you all will be here tomorrow at 05:30 to join us for the general plan update workshop because that's really when it matters to weigh in on what you want to see for your city. And you're all very passionate about what you want the city to look like, and we want to hear from you. So please show up again tomorrow for that.

I have owned two homes in Stone Creek. My kids went to Navigator for twelve years. So I'm and Goddard. So I'm no stranger to that traffic and that commute and the amount of pedestrian traffic. When the military building went in, that was a big impact. So I'm well versed at the impacts there. It seems to me that this isn't drawing a bunch of traffic in. And to Price's point, I thought the same thing. Like, how exciting for handles and sprouts that this could potentially be more business for those the restaurant and the nail shop. And I know we want to see we'd love to see restaurants go in there.

We would have loved to see there's so many things that we'd love to see that we could walk to and go sit outside and eat. And the reality is those businesses are not coming. They're not wanting that space. And so we're faced with the choice of, well, do we keep it as dirt and have people drive by and see nothing here, how sad this corner in Rancho? Or do we encourage business?

Do we encourage economic development and support the businesses that are there? I know that that quick quack on Zinfandel and Sunrise has a multifamily building nearby. And so there are spaces where that happens, and it's the type of thing where we go, it's not what I would have loved to have seen there. But when I go, Okay, well, could have been a gas station with selling liquor, what's I'm actually glad that this is the option that's going in instead of that. And I also see this as jobs.

As someone who has a teenager looking for a job, I look at that and go, oh, man, my teenager this creates this is job creation for our city as well. So that's encouraging to me. At the end of the day, our job as a commission is to look at this project and determine if it's consistent with the plan and it meets the criteria. And I can see that staffs have done their due diligence to ensure that the look and feel is consistent with Sprouts and the area, that it's going to look nice. The noise studies have been done.

I mean, I'm not going to compare it to the noise from Mather Airport because I love our airports. But there's it's minimal compared to that. And so I just look at this and go, there isn't a reason for me to say that it's not consistent with the plan. And so I appreciate your representation. Appreciate everyone's input. And no. I don't have any further questions or comments for either of you. Any last call for you guys? No? Okay. I think Okay.

You Thank so you.

With that, we'll close the public hearing. And does anyone wanna make a motion on this item?

I'll make the motion.

You gotta turn on your mic.

I'll make the motion that we adopt the resolution approving the conditional use permit and minor design review for the Stone Creek quick quack car wash.

Can I second? I'll second. And then, clerk, can we call roll?

Yes. Commissioner Deborah Polly is absent. Commissioner Frechette? No. Commissioner Hune?

Nay.

Commissioner Raymond? Aye. Commissioner Stoss? Nay. Vice chair Stevenson?

Aye.

And chair Molden? Yes.

Aye.

It's a tie three three, which essentially is a denial vote. So I'd like the city attorney Palmer to weigh in on what the next steps are.

Yes. So the the motion did not pass. In order to clarify the record, if the commission can make a motion to direct staff to come back with findings of denial at a future meeting, that would be appreciated so we can make those findings into the record.

Additionally, from staff's standpoint, we would need some direction of what those denial findings would look like so that we can craft that.

I'll have to leave that to the commissioners who denied.

I would say that, clearly, one of the conditions is gonna be the overall compatibility with the neighborhood given the input and and public comment that we've heard from the neighborhood. I'm just I know that the applicant and all have done their due diligence in trying to produce traffic studies, but I just am having a hard time believing that the traffic studies are correct in this instance. I have serious concerns about safety inside the parking lot and the interaction between the pedestrians and the vehicle traffic that's gonna be generated. And just for the record, I also am a QuickQuack user. I mean, QuickQuack is a great service.

I just don't think this is the appropriate location.

Is that enough for you, Garci?

To get any yeah.

If there's anything additional, it would be helpful to staff to provide that now so that if there is nothing else, that's fine. We'll we'll go off of what commissioner Frischette just said. But if there's anything additional, it would be helpful.

For me, it's just that I don't think it's a good fit for this community with the amount of pedestrians and the overall feel of that shopping center being so congested. And, again, I'm all for business, and I'm pro quick quack, but, I just don't think the automotive use in that corner is a good plan. And I go to your point about tomorrow. This is why the general plan update is so important because we need to have a say in what our city looks like. And so all that we have is our neighbors that are on this commission that are voting what we want or don't wanna see in our neighbors in our neighborhoods. And I think it's loud and clear that this one's probably not a good fit for this neighborhood.

And, my sentiments are very similar. It feels like a a a square peg in a round hole. Again, I I I love QuickQuack. I think they do a great job. And, I just don't think this is the right location. This is a central point in a residential area. It should be something geared more towards residential the for the use of those residents. It just doesn't feel like the right fit. And the problem is once we build it, it's gonna be there for fifty years. So we gotta make good decisions.

We also have to point to legal findings to support that.

Well, I do say it is CEQA exempt. I will give you that, the first part of the motion. I'm okay with it being CEQA exempt.

I'll look to Arlene to see if this will be brought for the next meeting or if we need to push it to the following month.

I think it needs can we push it to I think it has to be uncertain. We'd have want some time to put together the staff report and have conversations and discussions that we need to have. So

From the city attorney's standpoint, do we need to specify a date? Because how would we renotice on the action that was taken?

You you should specify a date because the public hearing was closed, so we'll need to renotice.

So if we go two meetings from tonight, that should be adequate. So what's that date?

The next the second available meeting would be let's see. March 21. I think it's April 8. Two meetings from now because March 11 will be canceled.

March 20 the second meeting in March should be adequate. That's a month from now? Yep.

We can do March 25 or April 8, but March 25 would be the next available meeting. Yes.

I think we need a first and second correct for that new motion. What

do you need a motion on? The continuation to continue the item to March 25 to bring back the denial findings.

I'll make that motion.

I'll second.

Commissioner Deborah Polly is absent. Commissioner Forschette? Aye. Commissioner Hoon?

Aye.

Commissioner Raymond?

Aye.

Commissioner Stoss? Aye. Vice chair Stevenson? Aye. And chair Maldon?

Yes.

Motion passes with a six o vote.

K. Thank you. And we're at item seven. Planning commission comments, ideas, questions.

So you guys are gonna be going to the planning commission academy. I think you're gonna enjoy it a lot. Sorry. Won't be there to join you. I think that's a good thing, and it's a lot of these procedural things you'll work out there. You'll learn a lot, and we've learned a lot.

Not much to report. I'm busy galavanting around the countryside at this point in time.

Lucky.

No. Not lucky.

Not lucky at all.

The only thing I have to report is it as part of the Muslim community, we're we are right now celebrating celebrating practicing Ramadan. So you saw me leave really quick because I went to go open my fast with about I think I just learned after going to the the mosque in Rancho that I've just been getting involved with that there's about 2,300 Muslims who live in Rancho Cordova, which is really awesome. And so it's kind of nice to be able to celebrate with the community and, you know, feel like we are also an integral part. So, yeah, just that's been the main thing for me this next month.

Go ahead. So we had a a opportunity last weekend just to we didn't have much on the calendar, so we went down to the Hagen Park, went down to the dog park, which I know Lee is not a huge fan of, but that place is great. Meet a lot of neat people, a lot of fun for the dogs. But then on the side, afterwards, we swung into soil borne farms. Hadn't been there in years. Such a cool vibe. The live music, the the food, the the fresh baked bread, the little cafe. Love it. I can't wait to go back.

No. Wait a minute. Don't put words on my mouth. I'm I'm not against dog parks or anything, and I that particular dog park causes me a big problem every July. That's the only things.

Not a huge fan of that one.

Fourth of July.

Only on the July 4.

Oh, that was my leadership Rancho class that put that in, so slightly offended. Yeah. Thanks. Thank you so much. Yeah. No comments here. Arlene, do have a manager planning manager report for us?

Yes. Just a reminder about tomorrow's general plan update workshop. It'll be at 05:30PM, and I appreciate everyone's help with getting the word out. I think after I sent it to commission and we sent another email, it upticked to, like, 30 people additional from what was already registered. So we're hoping for a great turnout. There will be refreshments and some food So they can hold people over until they get to go home and have their dinner. It'll be here at the American River Rooms. And it will be a short presentation at the beginning. So if you have other folks that you know are coming, have them come. Make sure they get there at the beginning so that they can see the presentation. Then And there'll be stations around talking about different kind of thematic topics for land use in the city in the next thirty or forty years. So thank you.

With that, we'll adjourn our meeting at 7PM.