Planning Board - Regular Meeting

on blue spread. All right. Hello everyone. Um, tonight's planning board meeting is in accordance with the provisions of MGL chapter 3A section 20. Notice is hereby given that the planning board will meet on Tuesday, September 9th, 2025 at 7 PM in town hall, meeting room 124. Members of the public are welcome to attend this in person at 1 Liberty Lane, Norfolk, Mass, or by the remote Zoom connection provided. Please do note that the in-person meeting will not be suspended or terminated if technological problems interrupt the remote connection. All right, thank you. So, I'm going to go ahead and do some attendance. On my left, we have Melissa Mayo. Hi. Thank you, Dan. Uh, Dan Seager, Mr. S.

And I am here as well. And I'm Chris Mford. All right. So, we have a public hearing at one Pine for One Pine Street at 7:00 p.m., but we have a request for continu continuence to 10:14.

Yes. So the the reason for the request is there's some survey information they need surveyor of course um to be able to work through some of the storm water comments that have come up from the peerreview process. So they have not received that information yet. So they're requesting continuence. They had hoped to have it um and so that's been the delay on their part. So they're requesting continuence. And then from the last um actually we didn't really talk about it but there was another in the peerreview report there was another special permit they asked for as a waiver but you'll it's it's on your next on the agenda for some for a special permit and so you'll read that notice and then concurrently or simultaneously continue both them to your October 14th meeting. Okay. All right. So, I'm looking for a motion to uh continue the One Pine Street site plan modification to our October 14th, 2025 meeting at Good Time. 7 p.m.

7 p.m. So moved. Do I have a second? Second. All right. All those in favor? I I I opposed. All right. Motion moves. All right. So, um let's go to our 701 I'm going to look for a motion to wave the reading for the one Pine Street special permit to wave the landscape requirement. Do I have a second? Second. All right. All those in favor? I I

I. All right. So, this is another continuence based off of the previous one that you had mentioned, Rich. So, I'm going to similarly look for a request to motion to continue this one to our October 14th, 2025 meeting. Um, do you want to give it 15 minutes? No, let's do it simultaneously. Simultaneously at 7:00 merges both of them. Perfect. At 7 p.m. Do you have a motion? So move. Do I have a second? Second. All those in favor? All right. Motion moves. All right. So, we're early for our 7:15. Um, well, we have business to fill. Perfect. Let's do it.

All right. So, I'd ask to move up the uh discussion regarding the affordable housing development bylaw for the November 12th, 2025 town meeting. Okay. In your um share drive, you should see the edited version.

I also included a copy in your packet. Might be towards the back. [Music] There's a there's comments from town council and then I made some additional [Music] edits for discussion for tonight's review. So, as you know, you voted at the last meeting in August submitted to the warrant to be included on the November 12th town meeting. We are going to be scheduling your hearing for um October 14th. The select board has their meeting Monday evening on the 15th. They'll refer it back to you. Okay.

And then you can have your hearing in uh at the 15th meeting. Um in between I forward to town council based on some of you disc some of the discussion at the August meeting and um I wanted to go over what being proposed which hopefully can address the comments and in terms of the way the existing bylaw is written you use the median home sale prices for single family homes. over the previous 12-month period and then you got to subra subtract that from what under chapter 40B consu here for that what a a home would be that delta is the calculation for the payment in loop as of right now I think we're talking over a half a million dollar I think the difference 811,000 is the median single family home price in down and at the um 3 something is somewhere around there as a number. Um so actually I should probably scroll down to Betsy to uh [Music] keep going. There we are. Right there is perfect. So the proposal is to which is is done by other communities as well is to put a dollar amount in there. It's a fixed number um which allows people are considering doing a payment lo they know exactly what that number is and then there's not then there would not be the necessity to do a calculation.

Yeah. So how long is that number going to be good for? That number will be good for a period of time. And and when I say that, for instance, the one other payment L that the board did the previous board was $300,000 which was in 2019 was for was for Norway Farms. So 6 years 6 years rough of timeline give or take. Right. So the advice is um one that it's not going to be it needs to be revisited over time. But I think the more important advice actually based on discussions with town council

is that 400,000 that number came from the model MBTA bylaw that was put out by the state for if you want to do a payment in Lwood amount. So considering you know 400 was a number that's applicable to MBTA communities. So it's consistent.

So it's consistent. However, we'll advise and town council want me to share with you that there are communities now that are being challenged as that even the fact of doing inclusionary is considered a regulatory taking because it's not contemplated in the statute in terms of the subdivision control law. Um Tony who you know Riley with our council was on the side of a lawsuit for Stonem that lost from the developer. Um they they sued the town of Stotem. Um it wasn't a pay loo but just inclusionary as a whole as a regulatory taking. Um the town didn't pursue it further. So it's just it hasn't reached the pellet level in terms of the state level. Um but just advising the board that um that's not an insignificant number. It's not it is below a half million based on what we're talking about. But you might want to think about a number that's a little bit lower. Um and the reason why we think about a little bit number is cuz there are instances where I think payment in L is a better option for the development as a whole. So we don't not in some cases we don't necessarily want to discourage a payment on L and I think the one that you did before which was Norway Farms which was 14 lots was a great example um if you go in Norway Farms you know the the general objective when you do low and moderate income housing is everything looks the same from the exterior right so it's not distinguishable that was the big challenge in that particular development as you may not know those homes are over a million dollars now. So, um, market rate. So, how do you kind of blend that in so it doesn't stand out? Um, so in that instance, the recommendation was to do the payment in L. In fact, they actually waited till we changed the bylaw to add

the payment in L cuz they really were hesitant to put it in the development because of the potential strain and stress as a, you know, one to maintain a house equivalent to what's in the neighborhood. plus some some of the social economic issues that may come along with putting some, you know, just one family in a neighborhood like that. Um, so anyway, they went forward and did it was at 300,000. So, um, what I would suggest is that you might want to do a lower number. You don't need to make that decision tonight because we can always go lower. But what I'm suggesting is that we go with this as the option, which is a a fixed number for now versus the previous formula.

Yeah, I'm okay with the fixed option. Um I think it's better than not being transparent at all. Um is it ideal? Not necessarily cuz we're going to have to revisit it, but it's better than not leaving it out there. Um as far as number goes, there's obviously we have the reason why it's four in here. the previous number being 300. So should we just look to meet in the middle somewhere? Is that we talked about that? Yeah. Internally is that what makes the most sense? I think it's Yeah. [Music]

Hi, Sue Jacobson, the affordable housing director. So it's a balancing act. We don't want it to be so cost prohibitive that the developer doesn't do it because as Rich said, it is not in the best interest really from our viewpoint of putting up one family in a neighborhood with 141 $1 million homes. Um, and there they have to look the same from the outside. So, keeping up a 3,000 ft home, heating it,

it's not successful. So, I think meeting in the middle is certainly um what we should consider. Um you know, I'm not town council indicated that as Rich said, you know, they stone him challenge uh developers challenge stone stone him and lost. Um so, I think we start I think that's a good place to start, Chris. Okay. Any questions on the board? Just to make sure I understand. So that's that's the minimum but then we can we will determine on a case by case basis what the actual amount is. Um I think if we go with this number that's the number for one unit of

because the last paragraphs or the last sentence there talks about may consult with the housing trust about the payment in l whether or not a right. So that's not about the amount. That's about

correct. That's about whether or not you know if somebody has let's say four in a subdivision of 20 then we would hope that this board would meet with the trust and kind of talk through is four. Do we want to even consider a payment in lie of for is that number a reasonable number in the size development that they're that that's what that's geared towards. you do have and if you look just a little bit below in that first sentence there. So if something's less than 0.5 you know there's a case where you could get a a fractional payment too. So makes sense. So it gives you a little bit of leeway and maybe starting at 350 maybe that comes into play a little bit more as we go along. Um, the one thing I want to, so for the newer members, um, if we go back a couple prior versions to this, you could even do like it was like you could do almost like a two family, which was in a previous version. Well, I know you were on the board then and that became even trickier because one interpretation which I don't think was well supported by the board uh nor the neighborhood was they were putting two attached together and one was going to face one street, one was going to face the other. Um so we made a few changes to this because we want really wanted to work for the affordable and we want to work for the neighborhood too, right? So um so I think this is another step um to do that. So

yeah. Okay. So that's 310-8.3 on that. Yes. Um I don't have any further questions. I think we should revise it to 350. I think that makes the most sense. Um if anybody on the board disagrees, speak out. Okay. Um with that being said, we do have an appointment at 7:15. I'd like to entertain if you want to switch. Yep. Okay. All right. So, bringing up the appointment. Thank you, sir. Sure. Thank you. Um for 7:15 31 Pine Street, Pawnville Medical. This is the site plan approval for two EV charging stations. Thank you. Thank

Please. Notice is hereby given in accordance with Mass General Law section 4A and the Norfick zoning bylaws section 310-6.7 I. A public hearing will be held on Tuesday, September 9th, 2025 at 7:15 p.m. in room 124 at the Norfolk Town Hall, 1 Liberty Lane, Norfol, Mass, relative to a site plan application for property located at 31 Pine Street in Norfol, Mass. The applicant, Gary Lavois of Innovvice Energy, is proposing to install two electric vehicle charging stations at the Pawnville Medical Center. The property is located in the C1 zoning district. Reference assessors map 26, block 81, lot 9. The application and plans are available for public inspection on the town of Norfol website or in the office of the Norfol Planning Board during the hours of 9:00 a.m. to 6 p.m. Monday through Thursday.

All right, awesome.

Rich, take us away. So, under the uh newly enacted EV charging bylaw provisions, you have an application for EV charging stations. If you recall, the the bylaw caught up with the uh EV world now that we have it on the books. Um I I think it's pretty straightforward. It looks pretty good. Um the only I did prepare a decision for the board tonight. The only thing in terms of decision was to have the this translate onto the asbelt plan um which would just be condition of it. So um the location of it is clearly out of the way so it doesn't interfere with other parking spaces. Um, and the only other thing I think uh, so when I asked you about the vendor, is Alt Tell, are they going to be the vendor? Cuz I know like I see a lot.

You want to bring them up? What's that? You're asking them a question. Do you want to bring up? Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Come to them. Yes. No worries. Got to keep Donna happy. She's our uh, only guest out there in Zoomland. How's everybody doing today? Good. How are you? Good. Just introduce yourselves. Nick Valori, East Coast Renewable Energy. And I'm Gary Lavoy with Anovvis Energy. Awesome. Thank you. People do call me Lavo sometimes, too. I like the fancy.

So, the question was the Altel systems. Is that the question? It's not so much a system is when I go when I pops up on my um you know Google maps or so forth is it going to say like I see charge point are are they similar to charge point or

so charge point all Tesla just a charging machine you know they'll pop up so the um the guts of the system if you would is run by a company called ready posts on I hate to use the word But the majority of the EV sites that you'll download on your phone when you're looking for a charge. So, Cottage Street Car Wash along with the medical center will be on the majority if not all of the charging websites. So, ready charge is the software. That's what you're asking. So, ready pop up as ready charge.

Correct. Yep. Yeah, that's what I was asking. Yeah. I mean, I don't think it's just more curiosity because we Yeah, they we've um we're going to leave it blank essentially the end result with the decision. It's not really

We've had a a pretty good experience with Ready to Tell You the Truth in the 30 or so that we've put in so far. So, they they're pretty robust. So, the customer service with them is outstanding also, which I think which is the reason why Anovvice uh originally promoted it when I was doing my background search on them. Um I felt that the availability of Altel through the ready network uh communication I think is key with everything as you guys know with what you guys do communicating with people and transparency is super important and we felt um that ready software was uh among the best that's available at this current time.

Excellent. Did you want to did you want us to What level chargers are these? Three. So these chargers um the one we're installing charge right around 200 to 225 miles per hour. Whereas the what I call the traditional level twos, which is what I have at my house. Um commercially you'll see those out also pretty much everywhere. They charge between 10 to 20 m an hour. Um, you know, it's a it's a substantial difference. Yeah.

You know, so specifically at the car wash, car wash, you sit there, let your car dry a little bit, you'll get a really nice charge over a couple, you know, 15, 20 minutes at the medical center across the street where we'll put in the chargers. Again, go in, do what you need to do there, and you're out. So you're just not leaving cars substanti, you know, sub substantial time in any one location. So the the stuff that we've been able to get approved through Eversource for these two locations in Northfor is, you know, a really unbelievable opportunity.

Talk to me a little bit about the Eversource approval process. Do they have to look at the drawings as well or are they just interested in other things? All of it has to get approved by Eversource before we actually can submit it to you guys and it's all approved by then. But Gary take let him take control of that as

Yeah, it's all a pre-approved. We go through the whole step-by-step process. Um what we do is we install the Eversource approved transformer pad. Um we have the Eversource trench inspector come out. They tell us exactly where they want a ballard the ballards if necessary. It goes to the pole which already got installed which happened. So um Eversource installs their pole. Um it covers up the riser and then Eversource will drop their transformer. Um and then we handle everything from transformer downstream to the stations. So they are involved with the whole process. They know all the material we get. Um they have the proper size transformer. Um, yeah, we've done a couple of these with them as well. So, um, everything is kind of by the book and it's kind of, I would say, cookie cutter. We've kind of made it cookie cutter to make sense for that particular transformer that they're going to provide.

Makes sense. That answers the question. Yeah. Thank you. [Music] Anybody have any concerns, questions, comments? There was actually earlier today I had a a well it was a potential concern which was just I wondered if cuz that intersection I don't know if you guys spend a lot of time in Norfolk that intersection is not great um especially during games and you know football games and things so I just wanted to make sure there was no line of sight issue but then when I got there and I the trees are actually in here but when I drove by you know and saw it for myself I was like oh they're actually behind the trees the trees are already there and that's not an issue right now so I think that's fine that was that was my only potential concern but when I drove by I no longer had that concern.

Yeah. And the one that uh specifically the Pine Street Medical one, um it's in kind of that far corner, but it's all going to be in the grass, too. So, there's actually nothing we're doing with the actual asphalt or anything, which is kind of nice. So, and it's all as far away from the street as you can get. It's really going to be kind of tucked in on the parking lot side. Did you do the ones at the Aderonda Club in Franklin? Yes. Okay. So, this is the same make, model. Okay. Anaonda Club. Um, how far is Stoton from here? 40 minutes.

It's kind of far. Okay. The rent, we did one at the Rem Town Hall, which is not in it. We did one at the parking. It's five Denim Street. There's I believe two stations in there. It's the same thing. So, Okay. Awesome. So, if you go Yeah. If you go to um you know where we know where he's talking right at the you know where the Dunkin Donuts is in almost basically right across the street in that parking lot, right? We had put those in there and then we're waiting on the town hall and the library, right? And town hall is done. It's just we're waiting on actually National Grid. Okay. But the library, we're waiting on them. They're redesigning the parking lot. Got it. That you need to know.

Okay, cool. Um, so I don't have any additional questions. I don't see any glaring issues or any issues for that matter on this. Um, do you want to pull up the decision real quick? And so decision number 20258. That's it. That's all we've done. Seems like more, right? Right. It's crazy. Feels. It's not over yet, though.

Yep. Site plan dates July 17th, 2025. Map. All right. Uh, [Music] so Rich, you said there was something that you wanted to modify in the vote. So I just modified under factual background uh where it says the proposal is as follows. Under number two, I think that's when we we had the um type of charging station. So I just changed it to charging stations will be installed on the concret concrete utility pad. Let me see.

That's updated in the electric electronic version. Yeah, I did have the before. Let me uh just And you had the under Where was the as under um general? Oh, general conditions. Yeah. Yeah. All right. So that's it. Okay. So we don't need to No, that's good. Okay. Yep. Perfect. All right. Um, the board just wants to give that a quick peruse. I don't see anything in here. Well, okay. So, that's Did you see some? No, I thought I did. Okay. I was going to say I I put a um hard copy in your packet as well.

Yeah. It just threw me off when I saw Panville and I know that we're talking about two different ones and so I just wanted to make sure I was on the right one. Yep. That'll be next. No, Panville's now. See, I think that's You're right. That's exactly what I did. I'm confused. There's a lot going on in Ponville these days for us. So, it was funny when I went to one to look at it. I look across the street like I found. All right. So then, um, with no further ado, I'm looking for a motion to approve the 31 Pine Street Pineville Medical Site Plan approval for the two EV charging stations. So moved. Do I have a second? Second. All those in favor? I

they opposed. No. All right. So, that one moves. We got three minutes. I'm so sorry for the procedural stuff. How's everybody's day going? Good. Very good. Not bad. Good. Do you want to approve the decision while you're waiting at 3 minutes? I mean, I guess we can. You guys want to do that? Sure. Not good. All right. Good. 36. 35. I mean 31. Oh my god. 31. All right. So, I'm looking. Yeah. Jeez, it's still 37. All right, we just lost a minute. Perfect. All right. I'm looking for a motion to approve the decision for 31 Pine Street Pondville Medical Site Plan for two EV charging stations. So, move. Do a second.

Second. All those in favor say it's slow. I I All right, that motion's moved. All right, we still got a minute and a half. want to do some meeting minutes? Sure. Um, anybody before we go to approvals have any questions or comments or concerns about the 81 1225 andor 82125 meeting minutes? If not, take a motion to approve the 8125 meeting minutes. So moved. Is there a second? Second.

All in favor of approving the meeting minutes from August 12th, 2025, please say I. I. I. Opposed. We'll take a motion to approve the August 21st, 2025 meeting minutes. So moved. Second. Second. All in favor of approving the August 21st, 2025 meeting minutes, say I. I. Oppos. Thank you. Awesome. Thank you. All right. With just seconds to spare, literally. Just about 35 seconds.

So, so you guys are aware, we are ready to move forward. So, when you guys give us the okay to move forward, um we'll be there to start installing and these things should be up and running. Now, just because once we install, we still have to wait forever source to what they call power it up. Yeah. What's their timeline been roughly? Feel like it was a couple weeks at the Aderonda Club. Yeah. Well, that was National GR National. Okay. National Grid's been pretty good. The one I had, it's been better. We'll put it that way. I would say within I would give it four to 6 weeks from the time we call in the transformer, which is when the pad gets approved,

which we do usually. I mean, the whole take us a week. Yeah. It's not going to take us a long time. So, I would say 4 to 6 weeks is awesome. All right. Duly noted. All right. We have our 7:30 p.m. appointment for the 36 Pine Street Cottage Car Wash. state plan approval for two EV charging stations and actually motion to uh wave the reading. Do you have a second? Second. All right. Roll call. Well, not a roll call vote. All those in favor? I I. Any opposed? All right. Let's go ahead. 36 Pine Street Cottage Car Wash. All right. So, this one uh little interesting in terms of as we corresponded

via email. Um going back into At the end of the really doesn't matter p per se I would say but um I don't think they actually built the car wash as it was approved originally um in terms of skeletons everywhere. Yeah. Um because where the the location for the one that's on the right hand side the lower right is there another area there's a better picture on a different yeah different sheet. Keep going. I think one more. Uh, two more. Sorry. It's okay.

Stand there. Hold on. No. Uh, that's probably Yeah, I guess that I mean it's Can you zoom in just a tad bit? I can. I think you're looking at the plan. Final plan side. Yeah. Different dock. Yep. Oh, different document. Yeah. Yeah, there's a really nice one in here. Um, a PDF. Pine Street 36 Cottage Car Wash Final Plan Set in a PDF. Oh, okay. That's the asbuilt thing. Oh, okay. So, interesting. You're putting the charging ports just off of the vacuum stations. So, as you're vacuuming, you can charge.

That's what they were thinking because, you know, if you're charging, you're going there for charging. While you're doing that, hey, I want to clean my car. So, you get out the vacuum. Vice versa, if you're going, you want to vacuum, maybe get a little charge while they're doing it. So, that's the way Michael was thinking. Um, that's some big brain thinking there. I like it. Yeah. So, it's kind of like I was saying, kind of outside the box. The next page is a little better, actually, I think. Oops. Sorry.

Yep. So, down there is kind of the way it is now. So again, we're kind of setting it off. That one there, I did um I don't want to say I'm going to amend something because I don't want to get in trouble, but I'm putting two ballards behind that as well cuz that's where you're going to come in. So for this station right here, we're going to have two ballards in front and two ballards in back just because that's where, you know, people come in. So to protect the station itself. Yeah. I'm going to always find these things fascinating sometimes, right? So we dig in.

So this section here should have been continuous. Should have the curb should have come on the original one. On the original one. Yeah. Yeah. Um and they didn't do that and I didn't interesting enough I didn't see

any changes to do that. Um having said that it is there today. So, the other thing I did ask Gary, which I was kind of curious about having them here. Um, so they're out of the way from the vacuuming. Um, that's what I would have wanted if I was a consumer, but hey, every consumer is a little bit different, but he chose to put them here. So, hopefully it works for him. Um, but cuz this is wide. This is 24 ft. Certainly doesn't need to be 24 ft for a a single lane drive aisle, but but he's choosing that. So, that, you know, it's his. But the intent is really to use them while you're vacuuming vacuuming your car. Well, think about it. You got 10 or 15 minutes. No, you don't vacuum. Like 2 miles charge while you're vacuuming your car.

Yeah, it just seems a little strange. You plug in for a pretty short time. I think though you'd probably end up or at least I would. So, I usually go there, car wash, vacuum, leave, and go home and do everything else. Maybe I would just do it there while I was charging. I don't know cuz they have everything you need, you know, all the wipe and you have to buy it all while you're there. But yeah, maybe people would stay longer if they needed a charge or they needed to go somewhere. They're looking to, you know, can people go in and just charge without getting a car? It's open to the general public any time of the day, right? Oh, okay. Yeah, I I agree. It's an interesting design choice, but we're not necessarily here to support or Yeah.

argue about the economics of it. It's on the owner. Um I think it's nice that they're doing it. If it works out, great. If it doesn't, okay, the own the owner on those salespeople. Yeah. If you if the if it's all full, Chris, you can just be like, "Hey, I need to vacuum my car. Can you go across the street to the other one over there?" Right. Exactly. Yeah. At the end of the day, that's the only thing that, you know, I would see as an true issue is if uh somebody really wanted to vacuum and they couldn't because there was that many EVs.

Hopefully that happens, but we'll see. Yeah. Like generally, I mean, we do We do have a you know a couple of the stations we have the sites they get like we had one you mentioned the Stoen site it's crazy it's at a hotel in Stoen and it gets a lot of use but what's the density in there a lot of use in that area right like of other EV chargers you find yourself a nice little EV desert and and you're golden for a while there's one in Quincy another dual port it's at a medical center that's not open it's a closed medical center so it's in a parking lot and that It's ton of use. And that's the same that's Chucks, isn't it? Yes. The same gentleman from Pine Street Medical Center. Interesting.

You know where else that we get a lot of use is uh forks. You parents are there all the time. I like I know them unfortunately. Yeah. I mean I think it's interesting. I mean here I think there is we'll see right um it's going to be some apartments in the walking distance proximity to that. So um I don't know if

the one thing you got to understand Rich is these are quick charges. So it's like you're going to go there for 10 let's be let's call this pay you're going to go there for 30 minutes. So you're really not going to leave your car there and walk back to your place. Like you're going to sit there, wash your car, clean your car, you know, watch Netflix. Exactly. So instead of overnight emails, you're going there. Uber drivers. Yep. They go to these guys a lot. They wait for their next fair and stuff. So this if these were the level two chargers, Yeah. people would walk from the condos or apartments, leave their car, their charge overnight, and then go. These are really like Oh, they're fast, right? Yeah. Yep. I think it's

Yeah, it's good in my mind. Um, anybody from the board have any questions? No. Are in the site plan? No questions. But I do think so. The one on the right that is, you know, we're look I don't know if anybody on Nobody's online. Oh, yeah. Bet. She's here. Okay. So, the one the right in this view that we're looking at here, there is actually space, too. I usually go up and out um that way. So I don't think I mean if somebody really needed to charge you could just ask them if they could scoot up a little so you can vacuum your car too because there is space. You'll be able to go through the same spot you are. It's not much wider than the little island they have now for the vacuuming. Right.

Again I'm not too concerned about it. No especially with more of these in the area. Yeah. I hope it draws people in and gives them more business. 100%. I just wish they had the fans on late at night. I know it's a noise issue, but still like I washed my car there once and the fans didn't turn on. I was like, "Are you kidding me?" And then I remembered it was after 110 or 11 or something like that. Yeah. So, was it a noise thing? Yeah. Yeah. So, I went home. I had a spotted car that day. Anyway, I'm looking for a motion to approve the Well, do we want to look at the decision first? Well, we can look at it after Rich is talking. Looking for a motion to approve 36 Pine Street cut car wash site plan approval for the two EV charging stations.

So moved. Do you have a second? Second. All those in favor? I opposed. All right. So that moves forward. Thank you. All right. The decision similar boilerplate language. Do we want to put that up real quick or same just take a quick review. 36. All right. Look at that. 2025-09. We're making progress. All right. And you made the same changes, Betsy. Yeah, that's Yeah, I the same changes.

Okay. All right. So, looking for a motion to approve the decision for 36 Pine Street Cottage Car Wash site plan approval for two EV charging stations. So, move. Do I have a second? Second. All those in favor? I. All right, the motion moves. Gentlemen, thank you. I look forward to seeing it. Thank you guys. Thank you for having us. Um, any other questions? Obviously, you can reach out to me. You guys, most of you have my contact. So, if anything pops up, please reach out to us. Okay. I just want to reiterate, I appreciate your patience as we went through all those bylaw changes to support these types of initiatives. Thank you. Welcome. Appreciate it. Thank you. Have a good night. Good night. Nice to meet you in person. Thank you so much. You're welcome.

All right, Rich. So, we did 310-8.3. Do you want to continue on with the 6.5 or 6.4 or do you want to go to other business? Well, I do want to finish up 8.3, right? Cuz you didn't actually You didn't feel done done. Well, no, you didn't. I felt didn't go over everything. Well, you didn't vote cuz I want to You want to vote so that we can just be done with the language. Well, that way when we publish it, it'll be the the final. Yeah, final. Fine. You're always looking for commitment. Jeez, I know. I know. I get it.

All right. So, um, starting at the top in A, the main change is Executive Office of Housing and Living Communities, HLC. That's where we're introducing that new term. Um, in B, we talked a little bit about how the bylaw is not applying to any development for which a complete application for special permit, subdivisional land, or plan. Lots of language here. No land should be subdivided or divided by has been submitted to the town clerk in adoption of the spell law. No project may be divided or phased to avoid the requirement of the section. So essentially shoring up the fact that you have to do this. Yeah. And you can't segment things, right? So, and then we've got the e-code update in there as well. Right.

Ecode update MLGC-41 or whatever chapter section. And then in the table, we're removing the total number of units. We're making it six plus and a flat 10% overall. Correct? Y. All right, that's page one. Any questions or concerns? Uh, just one point of clarification really. I think in other documents we've called the Executive Office of Housing and Livable Communities EO HLC. So, I'm not I just want to be consistent. I don't I can't remember if we actually if that made it into any actual bylaw changes that we made previously, but we definitely talked about it that way.

Yes. When we had our presentations from Josh and team, they were calling it the EO. That's how the state refers to the their acronyms all have the EO on it. Yeah. So, uh Oh, you want to go EO? EO HLC. Just to be consistent. Sure. Just have to add an E and an O. We had E and O. Yep. Find and replace. Super easy. Yep. Thank you. [Music] All right. Next page. So, changes around the minimum of 400,000 per required affordable housing unit. Um, so the discussion prior to this was around changing that from 400,000 to 350,000.

Um, it seemed like we were all on board with that. I think we still are changing the 400,000 to 350. 350. Yeah. All right. So we'll make that change as well. 350 per required for aable housing unit. And then the final line is uh the planning board will consult with the Northol affordable housing trust. Um and then section three where removing only Yes. Should that be a shall instead of a may? I mean don't we want to make sure that that decision is done in consultation with the trust? I think it allows us the opportunity to choose if we want to and it doesn't force it. Yeah.

No, that's that's my question. Are are we good with that or should we require the consultation? I don't know that I'd want to require it personally. Yeah. Well, I think the I think you put it in the side notes there. You don't really It kind of in some ways goes along with his comment on the other the lower section about you you're almost I say delegating it to somebody else. So may you can consult. Okay. It's a little softer. Yeah. Then there's the the the off chance that we don't do it one time and then we're in conflict around bylaws.

Yeah. Know totally. I'm just thinking like at some point in the future when none of us are on the planning board, do we want to make sure there is coordination when you have a situation in the town where they're not? I think the Norfolk affordable housing trust uh will make sure it'll be important to put in the notes or maybe even the town me I think in town meeting we probably should say this anyway, right? This part this needs to be revisited too. This is not a this will have a this will age out over time. Yeah. Yeah, probably over complicated, but could you like like index that to something so that it adjusts over time without having to go through a bylaw update? I tried that last time. Yeah, it's pretty uh

Yeah, that's fine. I spent what 20 minutes trying to argue price index or something so it escalates automatically. I was like, can we point them to a website where we have the new price updated and we can do like search pricing or something? So we I mean the market changes so much. Yeah, 100%. Be back in the next, you know, two town meetings from now changing it. But maybe that's just the reality of it. I I would have rather just uh divide it up, put what do we go? We went up $50,000 in 5 years or 6 years. It's to me that would have been fine if you really if you're intent on escalating it every year.

Yeah. Yeah, I think if you do the math the way I figured it out, it's it's it's like what um what's 100 100,000 divided by 6% wise. Um that was to get to the 400 though, but you're going to get to 350. Yeah. So, all right. So, let's see. But at the same time, we might want to reverse it and go the opposite direction as well. So, yeah. Yeah. And it may just be one of those things where you want to revisit this at some point in the next couple years to make sure that, you know, dedicated number system works anyway. So, it sort of forces a refresh at some point in time. I wish we could put an ex like an expiration clause on this like number valid in forces it to be updated.

Yeah. Um is like god damn it. Can we just vote? Could you put something in there that says like the planning board shall review by annually or something like that? That doesn't necessarily require you to change it, but just as language to say like, hey, every other year you got to take a look at this, make sure it still works within the bylaw itself. No, we wouldn't do that. I think it just it sounds like good record keeping.

I hear your Well, let me let's go with this if you don't mind and then we can kind of think about it cuz [Music] Yeah. Let me I'm leaning No, cuz I feel like you got to like generally speaking with the bylaws, we should be kind of actively looking through them. Sometimes they just kind of like there's a whole bunch of, you know, um yeah,

this one might depends where this goes actually in terms of, you know, across the state. Um if it ends up if it gets up to a higher if it if somebody pushes it in terms of litigation wise and it goes up, I it might be we might have to strip this out completely if they feel it's if there's a sense from the courts it's a regulatory taking. Yeah. Um, how strongly do you feel? No, I was going to say I don't want to let the mechanics get in the way of the intent here. Um, so I I'm fine. Okay.

All right. Um, if we're cool to move on then, um, we're going down to the bottom of section three. Uh, removing only and changing the language to rental and or ownership, removing home ownership, and then removing at the end of the line and shall not apply to rental development. This contribution can alternatively shall apply to rental and/or ownership developments and division of land. There's one above that just so you saw I just added in about the trust. So I deleted it deleted votes and two and just says put s on the accepts contributions. So if you vote it and it goes that way they automatically accept it. So Sue was fine with that. We talked about that earlier. Okay. That wasn't in uh that ties into Tony's comment. Have you seen

It just isn't in the draft, Rich. It's not. No, the printed draft I gave you. Yeah. Oh, it's not in the print. I'm sorry. It's okay. It's all right. All right. So, looking online now. [Music] votes to accepts. Okay. All right. Moving to digital. Thank god for technology. The digital person who went to the paper. That's kind of a I know. Let's keep I like that. Got to change it up every time. I know.

You might have a twin brother you don't know about, you know. Oh, all right. I'm joking. Double. Uh All right. So then no changes other than we're going to hear the EO

EO for HLC. Then that brings us down to section F. And that's the again a comment that Tone Council recommended. [Music] You want the word a Yeah. by the SPGA as a condition of the special permit review.

Yeah. an approval process of the on-site development. The SPGA shall consider the offsite affordable units through a separate special permit application.

Why a why a second or a separate special permit application? Just out of curiosity instead of just keeping it all together in the same request. So, let me see why we would want to do it. Doesn't it like initiate a whole host of other things that have to happen as well and then it's tied specifically to that property as opposed to being part of the

It's definitely a little more complicated offsite than on site. Off.

While you're thinking about that, go ahead. I was just going to say I think it's so you aren't looking at two different sites in the same permit application. So basically it would get so the offsite would be um approved and then we would move on to the actual offsite plan. Yeah, it looks like the concept would be approved and then the the special permit for the actual building of the That makes sense. And

then after that you've got a couple changes for HLC that need to be updated. Y other than that, I'm good with the language as proposed based on our edits. Any questions or concerns, comments? I just have a just to confirm the process, Rich. So, these we'll do a public meeting on this at our next meeting and then they'll go to the select board for first. So, they're going to the select board is referring back the one that you submitted prior to the warrant closing. And we're I'll I'll call it a swap out. So, what you're going to hold the hearing on is this version.

Okay. And then after that after that hearing it's it's in. Then you'll vote to make your recommendation. and then go on to the warrant and maybe there's another change. Yeah. So, whatever you finally vote on October mean, we'll send it to the select board to place it on the warrant. Got it. Thank you. And then go from there. All right. So, I'm looking for a motion to approve the updates to the 310 section 310-8.3 affordable housing development bylaw as updated. So, move a second.

Sorry. as updated, meaning we're changing the 400,000 to 350,000 and then all references to HLC will be EOHLC. Correct? There any other ones that I'm forgetting? Did you say a we added the word a Yeah. article in front of condition and provision F. So looking for the second second. All those in favor? I I any opposed? No. All right, that one moves. So, um, we'll see this October 14th. October 14th. All right. You want to do the other two?

Yeah. [Music] Up next. 3 10 64. Non-conforming structures. There's definitely little more reservation on this one from town council. Um, let's just open that up. See, what's the basis? The reservation. Yes.

Potential conflict with the statute of uh let's open one up. See what his notes. So the first one lock coverage and height can't be struck because it's protected under chapter 486 section six. Um there's um what I would in the interest of actually where we're at right now in terms of the process the ZBA meets next week. So they haven't had a chance to digest these comments. Um, I think it may make sense to go through that, not do this in November cuz So, push this to spring.

Yeah. Have fun with that cuz there's a little it just I don't want to toy with anything that's going to just get pushed back from the AJ anyway. Yeah. So, I think it's worth to just punt on it or not punt, but could talk about it next week at the ZVA and talk talk it through um with the points the town council made cuz they haven't seen these points yet.

Yep. Any uh reason why we would do the opposite, why we'd want to push to get this onto the board? I'm not really seeing a reason internally. Um, I will say the fact that we made the change in the demolition reconstruction in 23 was a positive thing in terms of that limitation cuz it has I think the intent it has done with it. I think what some people would want to see because we have a there was an application filed on Mirror Lake and they were demolishing a house and want to put up a new house which was significantly larger than the cottage house that was there and it seems the way I've been communicating that their architect did not review the bylaw and missed it that changed. So, I think they're going to have to kind of regroup in terms of what they wanted. But the neighbors had come out to the hearing and like

excuse me the cottage is 1100 ft. Now they're proposing 2500 foot house.

So that has done its effect I think. But the other I think it there's nothing pressing per se. Okay. But the board, if you read through with the ZBA themselves, they could impose some of these conditions. Now, if they want to, if you're trying to I understand trying to simplify it in terms of but All right. So, uh, if nobody has any, uh, issues, then we'll look for a vote to postpone 310-6.5 to the spring warrant.

6.4. 6.4. Sorry. [Music] So, moved. Do you have a second? Second. All right. All those in favor? I opposed. All right. 6.5. Where we at on that one? Where is that one.3? [Music] That's a great question. 8.3 right there. Closure saying, right? Yeah. No, no.

Oh, it's the trailer homes, mobile homes recent council didn't have any issues. Who knows? Okay. I'm glad we're updating that one. That one has never made any sense to me, not being able to have it temporarily. You know, it's so hard to find short-term housing and expensive. Why did we change it from 12 to 6? Just to uh cuz it coincides with the building permit. I think they're good for 6 months. Got it. Okay. Yeah. I'm actually I'm glad we're changing this too. Yeah,

cuz we had some unfortunately some situ. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Any questions or concerns with the language change? [Music] All right. Hearing none, I'm going to look for a vote to put the changes to the bylaw for 310-6.5 section D onto the warrant uh bringing us to a hearing next October. So moved or second. All right. All those in favor? I I I. All right. Opposed. All right.

Thank you. That is done for this fall special town meeting. All right. And then we go to the top and end. All right. 117 Main Street, Northol Fire Station. Update on the completion and vote to recommend extension of temporary occupancy. How about we talk about the storm drain function? That's why we're talking. Yeah. So, what gives? Uh, there's clearly u deficiencies. Deficiency in terms of functionality.

Functionality. But I think it's really a design issue. So the engineers of record need to come up with a uh solution. Okay. To the problem. Therefore, it needs to be continued. Um the permit near the temporary. Yeah. Correct. So um Beta reviewed the design though for the storm drain, right?

Yeah. The one thing and we can go back which kind of cautionary tale. They didn't do they did it based on soils. They didn't do um test holes. They did they did the storm water system based on pull up the uh old decision. What failed in the process, right? That's the question. Why?

We uh we have our own third party that we use to review these plans. We just went through an awesome RFP process. Yep.

Yet here we are. Yeah. And how many kayaks do you think we can fill in that? I don't know. Depends. Wait a few more months. You definitely put quite a few more in there. Um, a waiver was requested and was granted unfortunately in this particular instance. Is it not draining? Is that Yeah, it's not draining. And it smells. Oh, no. The smells too.

Yeah. Okay. That's cuz you have all that vegetation and if it's submerged, it's just doing the normal thing. I can get to the way. Yeah. And it's not it was designed as a detention based up and it hasn't I don't think completely dried up that I've seen maybe we should just put all the retention basins like going right back to Mirror Lake and we'll solve the problem or some

vegetation. Oh yeah, Kingsbury Pond. It's a whole other issue. Yeah. So section 4.1942 stormwater basin design of your regulation. The applicant sees a waiver to not design the stormwater basins based on institute borehole permeability. They this waiver is granted to allow storm water infiltration design based on soil texture class. [Music] won't be doing that again, huh? I was just going to say that. Yeah.

Yeah. Sometimes it works just fine. Would we normally grant on a private project? We wouldn't normally grant that waiver because this was a town project. It's a cost cutting or saving measure partially. I'm guessing

what I would want to go I'll just my memory is not perfect. Um when this came up a while ago they didn't want to disturb the site because of the existing fire station this location at the time um to do the to do the test holes to to dig it up so you know what what's going on there. um in term and that obviously was not a now we're not a good decision. Okay. So now they're going to need to come up with a solution.

Are they going to have to do that? Are they going to have to do that now? Are they going to have to actually dig? No, I think we know our answer as to the results of that test. It's not going to go anywhere. So now we have to figure out a way. Well, we know the results now. Yeah. Well, you know that. Yeah. But still, I mean, so now they're going to have to go back in, rerun all the calculations based on that storm water design and find a way to get that water out. Find a way to Yeah. I mean, it, you know, it's it really Yeah, it it could function as a wet basin cuz seems like it's in the water. It's wet. It's wet. That's not the way it was designed. Now,

there's a whole another discussion. So, but they've got to come back with a solution. Yes, we do get peer review projects, but um applicants propose projects and request waiverss and so they have to%, you know, they have to bear the responsibility of that. It's a good lesson learned. Yeah, maybe we put some trout in it and that could be the next fishing hole. I wasn't aware it makes sense. It smells. But uh yeah. Is it the rain garden that's in the front? Is that what that is? Right behind the sign. Yeah. It's not supposed to be supposed to be a rain garden.

No, that's not supposed to be cuz the existing swell that was adjacent to the church parking lot that's still operational and working. Yeah. And even the other ones on the other side to the left on the other side of the parking lot. I mean the one thing is and I don't know how the answer to it but the roof drains are draining into that basin too. If you look at the right, so you could get those rain barrels and then use that to water everything. Get some rain barrels. I hear we got some extra. This is going to eat into the savings. [Music] Probably. We're pretty proud of that, too.

Yeah. Well, hopefully we can minim Well, not us, but hopefully they minimize the amount that it needs in. But I'm grateful to have that as contingency. Yeah. So, in the meantime, it kind of makes sense. What day is their occupancy over? Um, I think it's already technically expired. Okay. So, they need to catch it back up. I I think they want it to the end of, but I don't know. I think it may make sense to go to the end of the year at the moment. I was going to do February. Give them 6 months.

Yeah, you can do February cuz I mean unless they're doing something fast. We've got frozen dirt in front of us. Yeah. Yeah. I think it makes sense to I mean February is not going to help them from a construction perspective either. No, no, no. Right. At least to come back at least pose a solution. Anybody opposed with the February timeline? Nope. No. All right. Is uh is it a leap year next year? That extra day, right? Well, just in case for the voting is a even year. It's a leap year. So, conceivably, when would be our meeting on February? Meeting would be February 10th.

All right. So, let's have it expire the 15th. We want to go. That's a weekend. Uh so the 17th 17th would be great. All right. So motion to approve the temporary occup temporary occupancy permit for 117 Main Street the Norfolk Fire Station until February 17th, 2026. So moved. Do I have a second? Second. All those in favor? I opposed.

All right, let's move it. Thank you. Medray branch shared use path. We're actually getting some uh motion on this. Huh? We are. So, I'm just back before you just kind of in my brain. Sure. Which would you like the PowerPoint?

Yeah, the PowerPoint I think is is probably good. asked Tom why this is running so slow. So this is uh the first slide is just gives a kind of a regional view of where the Medway branch the former Medway branch rail line could ultimately go over time. Um Medway Branch is road was the former Medway Branch Rail Bed. Um if you go to the second slide, um what ultimately trying to do was create a shared use path that whole length of that corridor, the Medway branch. Um what we're proposing or is phase one, which is in the red, which goes from Barstable down to Tucker Road. So, right now there's no sidewalk there at all. Uh because it's a former rail bed, the rightway is it's much larger than a typical rideway would be. Um because we're we completed the complete streets prioritization plan a few years ago. Um, it makes us eligible to apply to Mass DOT for construction money to build the shared use path or any anything that's in our complete streets. We can apply for funding to to do that.

Could be variety of different things, but one of the things that we're looking at is this section of Medway Branch, which would go from Barstable down to Tucker, which would go right past the senior center. Um what's being proposed would be um 8 to 10 foot wide shared use path on the senior center side of the road. So there would need to be some wall some work to be done but we would we were what I'm proposing which I I think it was back here in January maybe I think I'm trying to remember it was a while ago suggested the planning board that the off-site mitigation way that you have could be a a tool a tool that have design money apply to mass DOT and if we're accepted um then we would actually design it. So this would be application for construction money if we're accepted in terms of the award the construction money which is up to it's a half million dollar request terms of dollar amount. Um then that would be designed and then constructed by next June 30th. Um, so I'm asking the planning board to to fund that as piece of it, which there's a a proposal in your share drive from Beta Group to do the engineering design and permitting. Um just in terms of like the bigger picture, uh Blair has discussed and is open to the idea of actually having a shared use path go through the landfill and go back to the rest of the trail that's part of

Medway Branch that eventually could have a spur over to um River's Edge community so that it could be uh connected into the center town. The purple phase would be to continue down to the center of town and then we get down to the commuter rail station which would follow the old META uh rail line. So, we're doing it in multiple phases because for one, it's it's more a little bit more complicated, you know, two, three, and I'll call it phase four, so to speak. This is a little bit straightforward. We wanted to go further, but based on the money available to fully fund the project, we kept it between Barnstable and Tucker Road.

So on Medway, will we have will it just will there actually be sidewalks or are we thinking it would be more like, you know, the lines on the road where it shows this is a walking and a bike path like you see in some towns where they're actually making a dedicated zone for non-cars essentially.

So it will be separated. So it'll be the edge of the road, the burm, and then most likely a grass strip if you will, and then the 8 to 10 ft. So it's going to be separated. Um, ideally, which is more of a larger discussion. I we're going to I like granite from a design standpoint. We don't have granite. We have the the BM, which is I I get it, but I think the a vertical granite's a much better deflection barrier between that and the the path. But we have to get into the design. Maybe we could have something that kind of provides a better

safety because it's that's a good point because the burm is better for in New England because of the snow and the you know replacement of granite and you know so then you would have the burm where you can kind of go up and over but for safety the granite's definitely what about just concrete? Well, it could it could be concrete. Yeah. So, we'll that we'll have to explore that as part of the design because I I feel like it needs a barrier.

It it needs some protection along there. Yeah, I'm not opposed. I just I know that the granite without like love and care and attention on a regular basis, it does not always stay as nice as it should. So usually in so in New England what typically happens is plows hit it because they can't see it you know in the in the snow. So and but yeah to your point then they have to fix it in the spring just like the cobblestones. No I absolutely I mean I'm just looking out for my my pals over at the DPW. Yeah. No I to and that's why they they don't prefer that. I totally get it. And um

but not a problem for us today. For today we are discussing the use of the sidewalk mitigation funds and what value [Music] is the value the beta okay so 62k 62k how much do we have total in the funds [Music] total 140. I'm going to look right now. Thank you.

Just play some music. Some old music. Some old music. And while we're at it, what's the length of this stretch? I think it's in the uh Is it in the beta?

It might be in the cover. So six the lump sum is 62,000 the length of it isn't right to be feel like the first par no we didn't put the length in there I could have them made the length of it into the agreement so it's there yeah and who's doing the work beta they're doing the engineering engineering design. Yeah. And that'll be that'll have to be put out to bid. Okay. Like a quarter of a mile roughly. Yeah. Is that in the

And then so this is going right in front essentially of the senior center. Yeah. Site should be in our budget budget. Do we have concerns with the abutters?

Yeah, that was going to be my point especially considering many of them were not very happy with the decision we recently made on the senior center. We do have concerns and those are those are legitimately valid concerns. Um the one thing is that this can be um we submit the application which is really just a little bit of time staff time. It's not a budgetary time. So we weren't awarded the we we also could fair point I' I've raised the issue about

just curious I mean yeah uh we're the intent is everything is within the rightway so they're not there's only really one abutter per se who directly abuts the rightway right one on the corner one on the corner Right. Yeah. Um and that that's valid. I mean, has there been any engagement with any of them on this?

There hasn't yet. There hasn't yet. No, that would be after design when we're looking at the approval. No, I get I get that from a process standpoint, but I'm a little concerned about spending 62,000 to start designing something that's going to be So, what we what we can do is uh let's see it is October 1st. So, this includes all the surveys and everything.

Yeah. If those are very uh we could I'll just sh like from when I was in government, we were giving grants for these type of things. Nothing gets I've never seen things get as hotly opposed as bike paths really for reasons you would never understand. But like people get adamantly opposed to them. So, why don't we Thankfully, it's not a whole bike path. It's only a portion of one. Yeah. Couple of blocks.

Yeah. I mean, to be honest, I would hope that this would be welcomed in that particular street as well because especially on days that go into the transfer station, that is a welltraveled road and this provides some well-needed safety. I would too. I just think that starting that conversation now instead of, hey, we spent $62,000 designing this. what here's what we want to move forward with. Yeah. So, we weren't actually going to we weren't going to spend the design money until we actually knew we got the award money. Yeah. So, weren't going to design it.

We're actually going it's a little bit reverse. We would apply for the construction money and we would have the design money to go if we got the award. So, we weren't going to spend the money on the design. So, [Music] so I think during the master plan process, one of the things, I mean, we heard a few things over and over and over and one of them was sidewalks. So when we were talking about, you know, what we could do for alternatives,

um Josh from MAPC said, "What if you did multimodal paths because it's just not possible on some of these roads unless we're going to take over some of the front lawns and then build, you know, retaining walls." Um he said, "What about, you know, for because you guys have a lot of narrow roads, what if we just put paths throughout the town?" And it seemed to be welcomed from, you know, it was I thought it was very creative. But I really liked the idea cuz we can't there are just some roads that will just never have sidewalks and this is a creative way. It's also makes it faster to get from point A to point B. No, I I mean from a I I 100% agree. Fantastic idea. Butters because we just had the same we just we just approved something in their neighborhood. I think early earlier communication is better.

Yeah. just maybe I think um [Music] why don't we do it [Music] contingent on contingent on what? Well, I mean, we're just voting to earmark the money right now. Yeah. We're not voting to spend the money until we have the grant money. Yeah. So, that I think that's our contingency there. When's the grant application due?

October 1st, I think it is. Um I mean I'm going to will have it's been burning on my I I know exactly what you're saying, so I totally know. Um, and I asked the questions. I mean, this might be an unpopular, this might lead to an unpopular opinion, but let's say we get the grant funding, we do the design, we have something, and we're going to vote on it. It's ultimately our decision to move forward with that. Yeah,

they can appeal within the appeal period, but that is only good if we are violating anything that's documented from a bylaw perspective. So just to be you know in clarity in terms of the scope of the project this project the way it is within the rightway we would typically just have a right of entry form sign by the butter to be able to go in and blend it in. Um but the where we're at at the moment I wouldn't presume that we would get it necessarily. Maybe we do but I haven't had the conversation. But to your point, um, the other op, you know, it may be where we'd have to actually obtain a temporary easement, construction easement to be able to go in. It couldn't go that route. Right.

Right. But this could also be something that we can use as a conversation in other things. Yeah. Yeah. I think you I would recommend going forward, but I mean if it's if we if we can't get a right of entry, we have we can't continue on cuz we're not going to be able won't be time for that. Yeah, I I'm fine with going forward. I just think there needs to be some sort of outreach alongside that so that we're kind of we're driving this narrative and we're not defending something that they feel like was already, you know, done and put in motion before they had an opportunity to weigh in. Yeah. Well, to I guess to Melissa's point, um,

you know, there's been a sidewalks everywhere. there's a greater interest rate right from the town to be able to provide sidewalks everywhere sidewalks mobility and um not just that but from like a process perspective it sets a a poor precedent everywhere and I to your point to let people know that could be watching the YouTube of this that we're concerned

no that if they're not that we're going to proactively reach out to them at every behest whenever we mention something that's happening tangentially within their area we can't do that for every single project and we do it when it makes sense for us to do it. So like at this point it doesn't necessarily make sense for us to do it because we don't even know if we have the money to do this yet. So we might be getting them riled up for no reason if that's the direction they go in. Right. They could be their early heads up and make it make your life easier the whole way along. 100%. Yeah. It could go either way, but it it's also setting a bad precedent that that's going to be an expectation of what we're going to do for every project that could possibly at some point in the future.

Well, I mean, no, this is a little different cuz we literally just approve something in their neighborhood. I get that two meetings. No, I 100% get that. But again, we would have to keep score every time that happens. There is um yeah I guess I mean you my my only point is that I I would recommend some sort of outreach and not just we'll follow up with them when we have to or be required to post a public hearing on this because of his approval. Well, I mean we have to do the public hearing on it anyway and at that point they'll be getting a writer's notice, right? So let's get way ahead of that is my point.

Yeah. Um, just hold on one second. [Music] There may be two. I'm going to see. I think there might be two rounds to this. So what I was going to So having prior experience coming here working on Rails to Trails and sitting or standing if you will between a room full of 100 people or so who were adamantly opposed to But I totally appreciate, you know, that process of it to let them know. So I I it makes sense to do that. Um, I also think that if there's I think there might if there's a spring one, I would say we could have discussions with the neighborhood now and see where the discussions are and then come back in the spring application because we may need if they go well, right of entry and we're moving forward, there's no issue. Um, if if that's not the case and we need an easement, temporary construction easement, I think it's we would need to go to town to do that and then I think it's important for others to know that, you know, this is something this will come up time to time, right? That there's a broader vision. We want to have these off, you know, we want to have walking biking paths that are along the sidewalks. And there will absolutely

be other situations where we're going to need community support because to serve the greater good, some people are going to have to make some adjustments or, you know, modify their expectations. you know, you can't your self-interest doesn't rule out over I think the broader interest of the community. I saw it, right?

But to give them to give them a forewarning, if you will, I think it's a fair thing. So, it's a long rounded thing to say I I'll double check with um you know, Mass to see if there's a spring round. If there is, I could just get back to you and say, "Look, if there is, let's just apply in the spring and we can do the outreach within with the neighbors between, you know, over the next couple months so it gets done." So, it's either So, you're going to leave here tonight with the hope that there's one in the spring because the application is due on the 1st of October. Yeah.

Yeah. Because I mean I struggle with this honestly to the same point because if we need if you need a let's check anything these time frames when you the money's available to go do it but if you need a temporary easement it's what's the worst case if we do go forward we get the funds and we decide not to use the funds. Oh we can you know we could also just say we don't want to proceed. We're not ready. We're not ready to proceed or we could use them for a different portion of this. Uh, not okay. We could we would essentially have to choose a different project. So, okay. What is the actual application consist of?

Like what are you actually submitting? Is it just like a narrative? We want to improve access in the path here. Are you actually like submitting a you know, we're not submitting plans? No, it's more a narrative. I don't some of the stuff that you saw and that's PowerPoint it would go in with the application cuz we don't cuz we're we haven't designed it yet. So we just so I'm really clear. So we wouldn't move forward with this beta contract unless we were awarded Yeah. We're not going to move forward with our contract unless we're awarded the money. Yeah. So we're just earmarking the money towards that in case we get it. Do we need to do that right now?

Um, maybe not. I can just submit it. And what if we did this? What if we submitted the application for the first and then in the intervening months between application and award made made some sort of outreach to the neighborhood to let them know what was going on. So it's not all of a sudden, you know, if they're looking at a state representatives Facebook that Norfol got x amount of dollars for the path in front of their house. They've heard it from us first and then we make a decision on the beta engineering. And I think one thing we could even think of too is like do we want to add something to the scope of you know one community meeting or something like that in that process cuz there is language in here about obtaining you know rights and

I don't know that I'd necessarily want beta to be the the face of that. I'd rather something. Yeah. I mean we could but whatever that's that's beside the fact but I mean would people be comfortable with that that we submit the application and in parallel between now and whenever awards would be have some sort of outreach. I'm open to it.

I like the outreach idea. I think it's always good to get get ahead of it. Um I mean I've I mean we're all elected. We can, you know, we're working on behalf of everyone. you could go knock on their door tomorrow if you wanted to. But I think it's um it would be nice to have more of a, you know, we could put it out even on Facebook and say, you know, we're working on this multimodal path. Everybody wanted sidewalks. Let's, you know, come and come to our meeting, come talk about it, you know, just as just as us, you know, put it put it out there and get some feedback cuz I don't think people often times are paying attention to there are just so many boards and committees. I don't think people look at our agenda items. I just also want to be careful that we're not getting people's hopes up for such a small section of this when the plan is so much larger.

But the phases are in there. They are, but we don't have a committed date or timeline for when those are all going to be done. No, we don't. But I don't think I think to Yeah, I think um but to Dan's point, we did have a project that showed up on the community Facebook page that was earmarked funds for a park that wasn't a priority for our town. Nobody even knew what it was. Right. So, um it was a it was the Boardman Street Park, but it was spelled Broadman. Um Oh, the the walking path one. It it was supposed to be a senior park. Yeah, the walking path one. Yeah. I They got the funds for it. Nothing ever happened. No, they got a portion of the funds for it, so nothing ever happened.

Well, they got all of the funds and then they realized it was going to cost more than what they requested. Well, they No, no, no. They knew how much it was going to cost previously and then we got like $10,000 when it was going to be like $240. So back to but this is like the point that Dan's making like let's be proactive so that we make sure that we have the buy in before we get the money you know and that we have enough money of course which was the problem with the other one as well. Um,

and if you want go home and Google the Williamsburg, Massachusetts multimodal path, it's basically exactly this. It was like it's like a quarter mile running down a street to add to the sidewalk and it's got the whole town up in arms and split over it because there was no outreach before any of the engineering and design was done. So, I just don't want to end up in that position.

Yeah. But I'm if if it's if what we're submitting for the application is conceptual and there's an opportunity to you know as that application goes in let people know that hey this is something that we're progressing and seeing if it's opportunity for us then I'm good with that. What is it? Williamsburg. Williamsburg, Mass. Williams. I think Yeah, I think probably a more uh

we've had public meetings. I want to say measure conservative. I don't know the right word, but we could do the we could do the uh this one. Yeah, we could we could do the outreach first before we even submit. But the submit is due and if we got that money, could we use it for something else if we don't move forward with this? No, because it's project based submitted with the actual project. So we Um, would we have a deadline for them to take the money back or could we leave it in the account if we got it?

This is um No, it's a little bit different cuz they expected to be constructed. So, you know, it's so there's terms attached. Yeah, they're Yeah, they're expecting that this money is But that's actually still I think that's still okay though, right? Because if we put in the request, I mean, worst case scenario, I mean, it's time spent on on the grant application, right? But it's uh what's the worst case scenario? We can't move forward and we don't accept it and it goes to a different town. Better than waiting for another grant cycle. That part right there.

Yeah. Yeah, I mean I think if there's ways to do like do both of these things, prepare the application, get ready to submit it and or submit it and do a little bit of outreach at the beginning, then um cool. I'm not trying to over complicate things. I just think that uh no lead from ahead instead of behind.

Yeah. And then that way too if we're doing a public meeting, which we have done, usually it's something, you know, a bigger project than this because it is just a piece of it, but it might get some people excited about, you know, the whole the different phases that we have. Just showing it does go through a lot of the town. But, um, that way we're not saying to a couple of residents, we want your input and we're seeking them out. It's putting, you know, proactively putting information out there saying, we're hosting a public meeting. We have an update. We're working on getting funding. Just want to show everybody if you're interested come. Yeah. And you know maybe this is part of further engagement on what we're doing to implement some of the recommendations of the master plan.

Yeah. Because last time we had a master plan and there was progress made but most people didn't know.

Yeah, it definitely is. I I think in terms of looking at the the the task list and you know October 1st I think it probably needs well before a a good effort. I think we probably should have to wait. I think it makes sense after I'm thinking that through cuz I don't want to cuz you start I'm going back to when I was working on the other project and every some of the comments that were raised by residents and you know everybody's going to have their comments but you know

so then we have to wait for another grant cycle so we'd have to wait for that money to come available another time and we don't know when that would be Right. It'll be next year. It be the following. I don't know if there's It may be this time next year, not in the spring. But I rather be caught conservative and approach it so we can do it successfully than not. So I I completely understand that. So now we've circled around to from outreach to nothing and just letting it die for the time being. Well, circled around to there'll be outreach. So, that's not nothing, I guess, right? But,

but now it doesn't have any timeline at all associated with it. No, no. All right, let me back it up. So, the outreach would happen so that way we if we can be do in the spring, we would do in the spring. I'll get back to you. If not, then we would do the outreach so that we're ready to go next year at this time to apply for it. So I know it's construction 27 because it pushes out the actual construction be a year you know from that. Is there any reason that we can't submit the grant this year and then just you know worst case scenario would be that we can't move forward but I I just don't think that would be the case. What's the timeline for use to

use the money? Yeah. You got to be done by next June 30th. Can you even do something like that in that period of time? It's not a It's just the design. Oh, you construction. It needs to be done in the same fiscal year. It's you got the money. It's not that um um let's do I'm going to pause. I mean, how long is the design going to be good for? We can just get the design and sit on it. Yeah, the design would be Oh, no. The design wouldn't necessarily age out. I mean, that's

right. So, I mean, I think having that in our back pockets if you wanted to would do the outreach and then move forward with the idea of depending upon the outreach then move to the design. We don't have to I'm we don't have to spend the money. I wouldn't just the concept that the money is available to do it. But why wait? So I think I think so that's pushing it out a year for something that's on the master plan that we could start executing on potentially now.

I and just to be clear I'm not I wasn't advocating to push this out a whole year. I I think it would be fair to say we have put in this grant application if we are successful. Here is the process. Here is when we will be, you know, engaging. Here's when decisions will be made. Just so all of a sudden the first time people are hearing about this is when we're awarded the grant and then all of a sudden they think the trains fully left the station and they have no way to get involved. So they immediately, you know, go into defensive mode and start opposing it. Okay. Cuz I think if we're just saying we have we're spending money on a design and then someday we'll get money potentially to build it, then taping me.

Huh? Nothing. I was just voting. Yeah, there's nothing to lose. Just do it. Yeah, I I I think 100% I agree with Gary. Do it. We could submit the application and then you got a lot of alternatives down. Same in process while you know. So it has to go in October. We'll we can do outreach there after the submitt. Okay. Let's kick off a conversation. All right. So then are we going to vote on earmarking some money for this design on the sidewalk fund? I thought you said we didn't have to do that until we had a sense of if we were getting the grant.

You don't ne have to vote. But if I come back and you're not going to I want to have confidence you're confident to spend the money on that everything lines up. I'm ready to spend it now. It's holding my wallet hostage. I think um No, that's a good that's a good point. I mean, I think that we I mean, we can you don't always entitle a change of mind. We can make it conditional, right? Right. Yeah. Yeah. That we spend the money. We can say yes, we can ear market for that and then we make a decision in the future as to whether or not to actually move forward and enter into that contract. Yeah. I'm not asking I'm asking basically the ear market, not sign a contract, right?

Yeah. You just want to know if we're all committed to it. We're just saying, "Hey, we're going to go to the store. We're shopping for something. We have an idea of what we want. Before we go." Exactly. And if we don't like what we see, then we don't have to buy it. If we like something else a little bit more, maybe we get that one. Spend a little more. Except it's earmark. So, you're shopping for one thing and one thing only in that category. Okay. All right. Well, that So, I'm looking for a motion to approve the ear marking of funds in the value of what was it? $62,000. Yes. from the sidewalk fund to support the Medway Branch shared use path phase one Barnesville Road to Tucker Road project. Solved. Do I have a second?

Do you want to make it conditional, Dan, on getting that money or is there anything that would make you feel better? No. No. I think if we're if we're calling it, earmarking it, setting it aside, whatever. I think that that's okay. Fine. And I think Rich, maybe if you can think a little bit more while you're preparing the application on how we will engage through this process and maybe we can spend a couple minutes on it again in October. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Have you do that? Awesome. Then do I have a second? Second. All right. All those in favor say I. I. All those opposed. All right. Rolling. Rolling. 15 minutes. Rich, you did the minutes, right? Yep. down there.

Sh Industrial Park update. No update. Awesome. Favorite kind. Any other updates? No, no more date. Just need to vote on a meeting date change. Can I ask a question or is everybody sick of me? I'm not sick of you. Dan, usually this is me. So, please please ask your question. Is there any updates on the two storm water permit applicant pending applications and Long Meadow? Long meadow. 28. Is it 28 long meadow? Right. It is. Yeah. 28 long meadow. I don't have an application yet. You still don't have an application?

No. What day did we give him Phil? A while ago. Yeah, it's a while ago. But we had good faith movement from them at one point. At this point, we may be able to Yeah. When he came in with build a bike path on the fines that we've started. Yeah. Um, we could just put it right through there where he got done off the street. Let me I did actually emailed him again. So, corresponded with them cuz they're supposed to go to the commission tomorrow night, but because so they were going to go to the We're talking about 20 Long Meadow Road. Yeah. Yeah.

They were before the commission August. One of the things was to do some additional sampling in the take some water samples and have them evaluated. It was some elevated levels. Forget what it was. Lead. Was it lead? Yeah, I think it was lead. Um, so there's a question about the sampling might have contaminated it. So, they're going to take some additional samples.

Of course, since that time, the water's dried up, so there is no water to sample. Um, so they weren't able to do that. But then but then they also asked at the same time, can we start to remove the material out of the wetland? And I said, well, that would be great because it's drier period of time. However, you haven't submitted to the planning board yet to do your storm water management permit nor your earth removal permit. So, that's on hold. So, they're not going to be before the commission tomorrow night. They said they were going to be in here. I think we're we're probably at the we're getting close to passing the grace point here. We need to at least have an application here.

Yep. Um I think we passed the grace point. That was a while ago. Well, it's beyond grace. Yeah. Um All right. So, can we get an agenda item for that property for our next meeting? Yeah. Yeah. And then at that point, we'll make that final decision as to what we're doing. Yeah. Um, and there is 50 Fruit Street, too. Yeah. I just I saw you guys cover that when Melissa and I were having the the Zoom issues and then in the minutes you had said that you know the that owner indicated they would submit a storm water application.

Yeah, their engineer uh Let's Hold on a second. Let me look at my emails. Get first Here goes your 90 minutes of air conditioning. Just ended. It's not bad now.

Yeah, their engineer was so he was on vacation for tonight. So that's why he didn't submit it for tonight's meeting for 50 straight. I had to go back and look and see. So um All right. So we'll have them on the agenda as well. So you'll have them out for October. Yeah. I don't anticipate any issues with them in terms of what was it what was the conversation with them like? Did they just not know that they needed

So they did there was communication. They did come in meet with the building department in terms of you know what they could clear and there was I then I talked to the building now it's retired and it wasn't they didn't come in with a plan say I want to cut this you know clear this and so not recognizing that they went beyond what they should have done so I think it was a it seemed to be a fairly in this case mistake.

Yeah, it was honest mistake cuz the cuz the owner of the property is is very has shown he follows the bylaws compliant. They have other they have well they just they they just did the two the four Sharons Avenue that's okay

one of them the their partners they're doing eight Sharon's a so I think it was honestly legitimate in terms of um whether his overall goal is actually to kind of mimic Jane and Paul's he wants to he's building a home for his family and kind of have a mini farm there he was actually talking about putting fields in and probably maybe hay or whatever kind of thing. So I think that was a legitimate and the the storm water is more related to Fruit Street that the one neighbor is experiencing cuz there's no the water's just going right through and pass it on to the abundance property. Yeah.

Cuz the catch bases. So anyway, so they do plan to come in. Okay. Thanks. Yep. All right. Awesome. Um so then you said meeting dates is the last thing. Yeah, the your November means Veterans Day. So So that's uh Veterans Day. So what do you propose? You want to go to the 18th? Well, actually Oh, I don't think it is. No, we Veterans is the 11th. It's a Tuesday. Yeah. Yeah, it is. So we actually talked about What about Monday? Monday the 10th. It's fine for me. [Music] I can make that work. Are we doing in person?

Yeah. Works for me. All right. So, we'll change it to the tab. All right. Can you just send a note to Gary? Yes. The other Gary. The other Gary. Yep. The other Gary. Yes. All right. Um, any other anticipated unanticipated new business that may have come before the board? No. All right. Motion to adjurnn. So move. Oh, second. All those in favor? I I thank you. Have a good night. I really