Storm Water Advisory Board - Regular Meeting

Bill Laird.

Here.

Paul Nelson.

Here.

Scott Severson. Here. Councilman Vasquez. Councilman Harris. All right, you have a quorum.

Do we have any new business? Or do we just go with the dockets?

Yeah, the dockets are the new business.

Let's start with SM260008. Nipsco.

Hello.

Hello. We've seen you once or twice. Yes.

Thanks for having me. My name's Rachel. I'm from 801 East 86th Avenue in Maryville. All right.

I'll go ahead and give my staff report. So docket number SM26-008 through docket number SM- 0011 are all a part of the same project. So I'll give the projects like the general project details with this first staff report and then the next ones I'll go for the more specific with each regulated drain. So this first docket, the applicant is NIPSCO, and they are proposing to install a new underground fiber optic utility within the regulated drainage easement associated with Flint Lake Garden Terrace Ditch as a part of their fiber utility project from Bagpacks substation to Stillwell substation. As you can see on the screen here, this particular portion of the project will be along County Road 400 North, about 1,300 feet west of County Road 325 West, and 1,400 feet east of County Road 325 West. So the applicant is proposing to place two new fiber optic utilities within the regulated drainage easement associated with and crossing Flint Lake Garden Terror Stitch. The work will include the installation of a new two-inch Duraline future path four-way conduit via horizontal directional drilling. They are proposing to install the conduit on the north side of County Road 400 North from Meadowbrook Drive to County Road 325 East, running parallel with Flint Lake Guard and Terrorist Ditch, which is an open drain. That portion of the project will be within the regulated drainage easement for approximately 620 feet. I would like to note that it's difficult to discern the location of the fiber optic utility in relation to Flint Lake Guard and Terrorist Ditch. If the proposed cable is to be installed along the center line of ditch or under Flint Lake Garden Terrace Ditch, then the cable shall be installed with a minimum of five feet separation from the invert of Flint Lake Garden Terrace Ditch. If the proposed cable is to be installed along the top of bank, then the cable shall be installed a minimum of five feet south of the southern top of bank to provide adequate cover from the side slopes of Flint Lake Garden Terrace Ditch and to prevent a conflict between the proposed cable and potential stream bank repairs. Additionally, a handful will be installed between Meadowbrook Drive and Flint Lake Garden Terrace Ditch, approximately 40 feet from the center line of Ditch at Flint Lake Garden Terrace Ditch. The next location, the applicant is proposing to place a new conduit on the south side of County Road 400 North. Melissa, if you go to the previous slide, please, which is the plan view B on the bottom of your screen. So they are proposing to install a conduit on the south side of Canada 400 North near 349 East 400 North and they'll cross Flint Lake Garden TerraStitch with a minimum of five feet separation from the invert to the cable. As shown on the erosion control plans, temporary perimeter sediment control will be installed around the work area to prevent sediment transport to Flint Lake Garden TerraStitch. At this time, staff recommends approval of the two-inch Duraline future path four-way conduit within the regulated drainage easement associated with and crossing Flint Lake Garden Terror Stitch. The standard terms and conditions apply, including the execution of a hold harmless agreement. In making an application to conduct the proposed work, the applicant has agreed to restore any disturbance to a condition as good or better than that found prior to the commencement of work. Staff also recommends the following special provision be applied to this project. Contact the department at least 72 hours prior to the start of work within the regulated drainage easement so that staff may be present during the performance of the work. Staff notes that the applicant will need to obtain a permit for any work conducted within the road's rights away. And that concludes my staff report. I do not. Will the cable be installed under Flint Lake Garden Terrace Ditch along that portion between Meadowbrook Drive, the eastern portion, pardon me, the western portion of the work? Or will it be along the top of the bank? Do you know? I believe it's underneath. Okay. Which I don't have an issue with that if it's that five feet separation. Yes.

Yeah.

Thank you.

Do you have a specific contact you'd like me to get in touch with prior to construction?

You can just send it to me. Okay. I'll get it out to our staff.

I guess it goes in favor. Any questions?

Let me just, can we go down together? Okay. All the NPSCA ones together.

So are you, Mr. Chairman, are you asking for a motion for the approval? Or motion for a motion to approve the staff recommendation?

I'll second. All those in favor?

Aye. Aye.

Okay, so that's for the first three, correct?

No, that is just for docket number SM26-00. Yeah. Okay, second.

All right, so .

Mm-hmm. Did we do it in your favor?

Yes, we did. We did, okay. We did. Sorry. Right.

Yes. So this one is crossing Hutton Ditch Arm 2. If you go to the next slide, please, Melissa. You'll see the area on your screen where they are proposing to conduct the work. If you go to the next slide, please. You'll see that they are proposing to install this fiber optic utility on the east side of County Road 400 east and the north side of State Road 2. And a portion of this work will be in the regulated drainage easement associated with Hutton Ditch Arm 2. It doesn't appear that this work will impact the regulated drain or cross the regulated drain, but like I said, a portion of it will be within the regulated drainage easement. Additionally, no handholds or those receiving and jacking bore pits will be located within the regulated drainage easements. There will be pretty minimal impacts as far as disturbance, but that utility will be within the regulated drainage easement associated with Hutton Ditch Arm 2. So staff recommends the approval of the installation of the Duraline future path four-way conduit with the regulated drain easement associated with Hutton Ditch Arm 2, including the standard terms with the execution of a hold harmless agreement and the same special provision that the applicant contact the department 72 hours prior to the start of work within the regulated drain easement.

Do you have any questions? I don't know. Comments? Questions? Motion.

I move that we approve SM-26-0009. Second.

I'll second. Pass. Now we go to 0010. We didn't vote. We didn't do an all. We didn't vote. I'm sorry.

Mr. Chairman, procedurally, you should do an all in favor or a vote.

Yes, sir. All in favor?

Aye. Opposed?

Thank you. Okay. So are we on to the next one? Yeah. 260010.

Yes. So this is along County Road 400 North, approximately 800 feet east of State Road 2, crossing Hutton Ditch Arm 1. So NIPSCA will be installing the fiber optic utility via horizontal directional drilling under Hutton Ditch Arm 1 with a minimum 5 feet of separation distance from the invert to the fiber optic utility cable. Temporary perimeter sediment control will be installed around the work area to prevent the transport of sediment. At this time, staff recommends the approval of the two-inch dirt line future path four-way conduit with the standard terms and conditions including the execution of a hold harmless agreement and the same special provision that the applicant contact the department at least 72 hours prior to the start of work within the regulated drainage easement.

I move that we approve S7-26-0010.

Second.

All in favor?

Aye.

Opposed? Passes? We'll go on to the next one, 26-0011. Yeah.

And I would like to make a note for the record, Councilman Vasquez has joined the meeting as well. Present. And then, so this docket number, NIPSCO is proposing to install the fiber optic utility along County Road 400 North, approximately 3,300 feet east of County Road 575 East. They will install that new fiber optic utility under Crooked Creek, which is an open drain. It will be conducted via horizontal directional drilling on the north side of County Road 400 North with a minimum of five feet of separation distance between the ember at Crooked Creek and the new fiber optic utility. Staff recommends the approval of the installation of the two-inch dirt line future pathway conduit with the standard terms and conditions including the execution of a hold harmless agreement and the following special provision that the applicant contact the department at least 72 hours prior to the start of work within the regulated . Questions?

I just, I got actually one question. It's for all of them. Is NIPSCO actually doing the boring or do you have a contractor?

We will have a contractor.

So does a contractor have to be noted here or no?

They do not need to be noted in the engineering plans, but when we send out our environmental compliance plan, all of these factors are included in that plan and they have to sign off on that saying that they understand the rules.

Can you just explain what you're doing in the area, just so we have context of? Sure.

Yeah. So one of the key things that we do to increase reliability across our substations is connect them with an underground fiber route. There is almost an underground fiber route connecting all the substations, or will be by 2028, likely, depending on project variation. But the goal is so that the substations can communicate with each other. So if there is ever an equipment failure, a different substation adjacent can pick up the feed so that customers do not lose power. They're closed systems, so only NIPSCO is able to contact each other. There's no outside source. Nobody else can get this feed. But one of the reasons that we installed the four-way conduit when we put it in is so that if there ever is another project or we need to tie into that, we don't have to run an entire new line. We can borrow one of the other three plots.

How do you communicate with the substations now?

The microwave towers?

Oh, okay.

Yes, it's part of, it's definitely more secure, but part of the FERC licensing does require reliability, so that's part of the operations as well.

I move that we approve SM-2660011. Second. All in favor? Aye.

Opposed? Now we're down to 26-0012.

So this one is different. So this is the applicant is Nipsco. They are proposing to retire an existing gas main and install a new six-inch plastic gas main under fluid stitch. And this is at the intersection of State Road 8 and County Road 150 West to accommodate the State Road 8 small structure replacement project. The applicant is proposing to place one new gas main under Phillips Ditch, which is an open drain, to accommodate the recently approved NDOT small structure replacement project curing State Road 8 over Phillips Ditch. The work will include the installation of a new six-inch plastic medium density polyethylene medium pressure gas main via horizontal directional drilling. The applicant is also proposing the abandonment in place of the existing three-inch plastic gas main within the regulated drain achievement. A minimum six feet of separation distance between the proposed new six-inch gas main and the proposed reinforced concrete box structure will be provided for the construction plans. The jacking receiving board pits will be located outside the regulated drainage easement. At this time, staff recommends approval for the abandonment in place of the existing 3-inch gas main and the installation of the proposed 6-inch gas main under Phillips Ditch and within the regulated drainage easement associated with Phillips Ditch. The standard terms and conditions shall apply, including the execution of a hold harmless agreement between the applicant and Porter County. Staff also recommends the following special provision be applied to the project. Contact the department at least 72 hours prior to the start of work within the regulated. And that concludes my staff report.

Any questions?

Comments? The existing three-inch, what does that abandonment look like? Does that get cut, purged, capped?

Yes, they will cap it in place, yeah.

Okay.

They do do testing on all of the abandoned pipe also to make sure that it's not predating any of what's in there. They have like contaminants. Sometimes they can be in like very old pipes. So they do test them all first.

Do they remove the pipe or they just leave it there?

They will remove it if it is contaminated. Otherwise it just stays in the ground. I think that's pretty much the norm for abandoned.

But it's purged, correct? So there will be no gas.

Correct. There will be no gas in it. It will be cut, capped. Yes. Yeah. No pressure. Empty.

Perfect. Yes. On 4th of July.

We don't need that. We don't need that for us. No, thank you.

I agree with you. Perfect. There's still a possibility for conduit or bypass.

Yeah.

Right. Will it be in conflict with the endot structure that's being replaced? So will that portion be removed?

The portion that is in contact with endot structure will be removed. Okay. Yeah.

So the portion through the regulated drain will be removed.

I do have a question. Anything that we leave in the ground that is no longer used. Is that documented someplace?

I believe it comes back in the engineering plans when they sign off. The public improvement projects are a little different than the projects that I typically work on. I don't know if they all Well, every project at NIPSCO does get an engineering red line drawing of what happened and then submit it. I just don't know the timeline they get them back in the gas sector for these types of projects. But if that is something that you guys would be interested in seeing, I can definitely make note of that.

Are they typically pretty close to one another?

Yes. Yeah.

My recommendation is to get the as-builds so you have them.

Yeah, we typically have as-builds for records.

Telephone companies particularly are notorious for that. They've got multiple lines that we don't know if they're... Yes.

Yeah, and providing as-built drawings are a standard term and condition with the application.

Yeah, I was going to say, I thought I usually see that in the application.

And the as-built includes abandoned lines?

Yes. Yep.

I move that we approve SM-26-0012. Second. All in favor? Aye.

So the applicant is NIPSCO. They're proposing to retire and replace an existing utility pole and as-needed tree trimming crossing Levington Ditch Arm 16 along County Route 200 West. The particular project location nearest address 394 South, 200 West. The applicant is proposing to retire and install one new utility pole on the west side of Canada 200 West within the regulated drainage easement associated with Ludington Ditch Arm 16, which is a closed drain or a drain tile. This is a part of the TDSIC PRP Valparaiso PK 1713 utility improvement project. Construction access to auger the hole and install the new pole will remain from Canada 200 West. Pole 441-084 appears to be located north of Ludington Ditch Arm 16, which is a 12-inch vitrified clay tile or VCT grain tile. The proposed pole placement is approximately two feet south of the existing utility pole location. Any damage to Ludington Ditch Arm 16 caused by the installation of the new utility pole shall be repaired by the applicant. And Melissa, if you could please go to the previous slide, sorry. So that darker blue line that's in the center of the blue shading, that's the center line of easement. Staff has done some drain tile flagging in this location, and the drain tile does fall fairly close to the center line in this location. So we don't foresee any conflicts, but just noting that If your pole location changes or if you do encounter the drain tile, please contact us and the NIPSCO will have to repair that drain tile. Okay. Would you like to see potholing ahead of time for this project? I don't think it's necessary. Not with us knowing where the drain tile is. Okay. i also don't think that that would really be practical for your scope of work to pothole where you're going to auger the hole though it might compromise the integrity of the utility pole so staff recommends the approval of the existing utility pole as well as the removal I'm sorry. Staff recommends the approval of the removal of the existing utility pole and installation of the proposed utility pole within the regulated drainage easement associated with Ludington Ditch Arm 16. The standard terms and conditions apply, including the execution of a hold harmless agreement. Staff also recommends that the following special provision apply to the project. Contact the department at least 72 hours prior to the start of work within the regulated drainage easement. And staff notes that you'll also need to obtain a permit for any work conducted within the road right-of-way. And that concludes my staff report.

Questions or comments?

I just have a general question. What necessitates having to retire an existing pole and replacing it with something new?

Typically there's been damage to the pole or the pole is from like 1942 and there's an original and there's... and they're just looking to update uh we do change the standards every now and again for how the poles are placed in the ground how they seal at the base or or just like where we are sourcing the poles from so sometimes we just retire the old ones in order to do that so the all the letters that you read at the beginning of this project but the t-disc is the type of program that this is under so that's for the state guided program erp just stands for pole replacement program So when you start to see them, that's kind of how they're broken up. There's just a lot of alphabet letters, but usually it's pole replacement program. If you see the WT, it's the worst tab, or WC is the worst circuit. But just so when you read them, that might help with some context.

Any questions?

I move that we approve SM-26-0013. Second. All in favor?

So I guess all that's left is the manager's report.

Yeah. And Rachel, all these cases will be presented to the Stormwater Management Board at their meeting on June 23rd at 9 a.m. You're welcome to attend, but it's not required. And the hold harmless agreement will be sent to the project contacts following that meeting. Perfect. Thank you. You're welcome.

Thank you.

Thanks for having us. Yes. Thank you for being here. All right. And then for my program manager's report, I just would like to provide an update with our capital improvement project, P26-024 for Rolling Meadows subdivision, the stormwater management system improvements project phase one. You'll see the small location map at the top of the screen. This just gives a general project location. We are between Aberdeen and Shorewood Forest subdivision, just off of County Road 33. 25 West and just south of County Road 100 North. And then the larger location map at the bottom of the screen, the red boxes that are along the fingers of the street, as I call it subdivision, this is the limits of the storm skirt replacement. So I've talked about this project before, but just a reminder, we are installing all new storm sewer from the detention basin at the far eastern limits along Angelica Drive. So the southeastern portion or the bottom right-hand corner of the screen, that last red box there. And then that will be 30-inch concrete storm sewer And then it reduces down to 12 inch storms here as we move further west or to the left hand side of the screen along Laguerre Drive. So construction started beginning of May, so a couple of weeks ago. So if you go to the next slide, please, Melissa. Here are some pictures of the installation. This is at the intersection of Angelica and Laguerra. These were taken last Thursday. So that manhole that you see there, that is a 72-inch manhole, so a six-foot diameter manhole. Going underneath the stone piles or the right-hand picture going into the manhole, that is the 30-inch concrete storm sewer. And then you can see the picture on the left, the small inlet with the 12-inch concrete pipe coming in. So once it stops raining now this week, they'll get out of this intersection. Once they get this portion of work started, they need to have really good dry weather for a day. That way they don't shut down Laguerra and Angelica and get themselves into quite the pickle. The minimal work was done today, but like I said, once we get a little bit of a drier weather day, they'll get out of this intersection and then move down along LaGuerra. Garriott Construction is the contractor. So far, the work has progressed well. And then we have Burke Engineering on site. They were the engineers of record and designers, and we have part-time construction observation with them. So, so far, things have been going well. So, I will knock on wood.

What's the estimated life of a system like this?

uh 50 years is what they say but i think 100 would not be and we are doing um so our standard bedding and initial backfill so there's uh four inches well underneath the 36 inch or underneath the 30 inch pipe is six inches of bedding um and then the minimum bedding as we go to the 12 inches three inches um and then one foot of eight inches of number eight stone above the top of pipe and then back to the 53s and then our asphalt so um a nice stone envelope surrounding the pipe which increased the service life what was the previous So that is, and I'm sure Evan can provide some more history with this. So when the subdivision was developed, it was developed in 1999. The maximum pipe size was an 18-inch pipe, and that is along the east side of Angelica Port. And then after people started moving in, there was flooding at the intersection, so then the drainage board completed a project and installed a 30-inch HDPE pipe on the east side of Angelica. The existing storm sewers within the parkway and not where we're crossing are going to be abandoned in place by filling them with global fill grout.

The preliminary work on this was done by my predecessor, who also happened to be county surveyor, but he undersized that long pipe, and that resulted in surge purge. One of the first things I did was calculate, or did the hydraulics, and it and hydrologic calculations for that because it's a particularly wet area. It's interesting that this land was owned by a man that did septic systems. So they were doing sludge disposal on the site, which there's nothing wrong with that, but it just tended to make this area even wetter than it already was. And then we get surcharge right at the intersection the owner of that house at the intersection was her former building commissioner.

Oh my gosh.

It put the Nipsco transformer underwater about four feet. So that whole intersection was about two and a half, maybe even three feet deep at times. It was awful. The pond was undersized as well toward the east. So that was excavated to its limits because there were houses built. We didn't have any more room. So we excavated out, probably increased the time by about 50% as far as capacity. But yeah, the 30-inch. And then it was even more troubling. Our highway engineer kept a pretty close eye on the guy who had even installed that. He had cut the gaskets off. We found them in the pond. So we got that correct. It was one thing after the other with this system. It's been a challenge, and it hasn't improved. The other thing is all of these septic systems, I believe, required some sort of drainage. So we have a lot of plastic pipe up, single pipe, and it tends to crush or the joints fall apart. with a product of the day. I love it when my friends who sell plastic pipes say, well, this is permanent. It's permanent in that it's going to be in the ground forever. It doesn't deteriorate or degrade, but it does deform terribly. It'll split. It'll crack. It'll break up. But with copper, that's not so much a problem.

think that's a good segue into my next point with this so this is phase one um so the really what initiated this was the uh some drainage concerns regarding rear yard flooding and septic system backup caused by those perimeter drain tiles and the high groundwater levels um as we were as i was going through and designing that was a resolution for that drainage concern we televised the this portion of the storm sewer and it was heart-shaped. Pipe is not supposed to be shaped like a heart. So that's where we realized that, okay, phase one needs to be reconstruct the storm sewer and get that in good condition, have a functioning outlet that's not going to result in sinkholes. And then from there, our future phases will be reconstructing the master tiles down those fingers of the streets through those rear yards. And then a little bit of detention basin outlet structure maintenance needs to happen, but that's going to be a small minor project that we'll complete after this.

What's the total projected timeline?

Well, there's, what, three streets, so I think, so this will be done this year, and then in future years, it would be doing one master tile at a time to help phase it out through work through the entire county, so I would say we'll probably be done here in five to seven years.

So when do they start seeing relief? When it's complete, or...?

The people with the flooding in the rear yard, yeah, they'll see relief when that new master tile is constructed. Now, I think they might have an opportunity to see some temporary relief now because any tiles that were connected into the old storm sewer will be connected in here. And we'll also have stubs coming off of this storm sewer or the manhole placement is where those future master tiles will be installed. So there's an opportunity to connect those existing tiles in and that might provide them to be free flowing. I mean, it's not like the existing storm sewer was clogged, so I don't really foresee that happening, but.

You will have positive outlet, and that's a good thing here. And remember what I said about the soils, because the sludge application is very organic. Maybe go for the grass, but not really good for the idea of using septic design. And the interesting thing is, today we're really adhering to the bedding rules and requirements and when she was referring to hardship i think she might be talking about uh chelsea were you talking about the deflection upward at the bottom that would split them no it's actually from the top so the pipe is crushed from the top and that's where you get the collapse in the top of the pipe i've seen it both ways sure really interesting bulges upward and cracks down the center and it's literally impossible fine you have to cut off the top of the pipe I've done that a hundred times, but just largely because bedding was inadequate or inappropriate.

This looks definitely big enough to have a lot of water. It's well bedded.

Yeah. Yeah. And then we are using this as a joint project with the highway department as well. So our stormwater portion of the work, where we disturbed the pavement, it will be paved to the intermediate course. And then the highway department is going to come through and resurface, or mill and resurface the remaining streets, and then place surface on our portion of the work as well, asphalt surface. So that's a cost savings for us out of the stormwater fund and then working with the highway department to try to team up on these type of projects as we go through this so um and with that that concludes my program manager's report okay any discussion sounds good to me the next meeting is july 13th this year and today my project is going

We need a motion to adjourn. Motion to adjourn. I have a motion to adjourn. Yeah, motion to adjourn the meeting. Second. July 3rd. All right.

Aye. Aye. All right. Stand and reach.

Thank you.