Plan Commission - Regular Meeting

Ice to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Kevin Ricey uh he is at conference so he Bob Gilliano here Edward here our newest member Arvin Marker here Michel fish here Ed Morales here from Redstone here

here Burns here also present Mike J Susan Hale and Ser Yeah, thank you. Introduce Harvard about yourself. Uh retired CPA came out of the healthcare industry and uh got pulled out of retirement a little bit. So

Mr. President, if you could hold a minute, the attorney must swear him in. This is so good. She did this. She did. All right. Okay. Please stand in the right hand.

I state your name. Immer do solemnly swear or affirm do solemnly swear or affirm that I will support the Constitution of the United States that I will support the Constitution of the United States and the Constitution of the State of Indiana and the Constitution of the State of Indiana and I will faithfully, honestly, and impartially that I will faithfully, honestly, and impartially discharge the duties of the office discharge the duties of the office of the Porter County Board of Finance. of the Porter County Board of Planning according to the law and to the best of my skill and ability. according to the law and to the best of my skill and ability. So help me God. So help me God. Thank you. Thank you.

Welcome. Welcome. Thank you. Okay. Next item is election officers. Like open up the nomination. The first uh position is the president. You have nomination for president. I'd like to nominate Rick. I'll second that nomination. We have a motion first and second. All those in favor say I. I. Those say nay. Those oppose say. Thank you. Next is nomination for vice president. Please. Do we have a second? Second.

Okay. We have a first and a second. All those in favor say I. I. Those opposed. Okay. Thank you. Next is motion for DC TRC officer. I'd like to nominate Chryski. Do we have a second? Second. Okay. All those in favor say I. I. Those opposed say nay. Okay. Thank you. If we could, sir, uh we could also pick an alternative. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Next is U state officer. I need a nomination for that, please. I'd like to nominate Dr.

Do we have a second? Second. Okay, we have a first and a second. All those in favor say I. I. Those oppos say no. Okay. Thank you. And lastly is alternate for hearing officer, sir. Now Kevin. I'll second that. Okay. First and second. All those in favor say I. I those oppos say nay. Okay. Thank you. Okay. And these are confirmation or appointments. Excuse me. You want the whole group for the R DRC.

Are your board membership DRC alternate to Kevin? Do you want as a group or each person or how do you want one amongst you other than 10 to be all? Okay. I know that. Okay. Do we have anation for all students or DRC? For those of you unaware, the development review committee usually meets during the day 9:00 in the morning. uh unofficially we hear cases uh a lot of cases appeared before you or the BCA sometimes we approve administrative class but it's more of a technical review uh we have a representative board to help we have the highway department represented we have the development department and myself serve on this board and we simply listen to cases give people valuable feedback so they can respond to that before they appear before boards. So, um we're looking for someone that's um got some knowledge of development and how available we got availability during the daytime. So, if anyone would like to

How often do they meet this? Uh we could meet twice a month sometimes, mostly once a month. Is anybody interested? And that's just an alternate. That's just an alternate. It's just an alternate one. Kevin can make it like if he were had one this week, he's conference. Yes.

I can if you can do it. I could probably do it. I mean, if it's just an ultimate Yeah. He just finished. No, he just Yeah, I can get there. Okay. DRC. I'll second that. Okay. First, second. All those in favor say I. I. Those opposed say nay. Okay. You're approved. Access confirmation others on development review for any partners. Do we need a motion for that?

I think you can do them as a group. These are the people myself as director's name plus any alternate highway. That's the recommendations of the highway superintendent. I did confirm that and the health department. I did talk to the director of the health department. Those were his two recommendations. And on top of that according to our rules someone in terms of development engineering which is David Champion and his alternate. So I think you can approve them all simultaneously. Okay. Mr. President like to make a motion for director Mike J alternate Christy Morasco Highway Martin Bobcate Zach Jakabowski development engineering David Champion alternate Kelly Codwell uh health department Dan Boyd alternate Zack Martin

second and second. All those in favor say I. I. Those oppos say nay. Approve. Okay. Next is approval for professional services agreement retaining eling report for legal services for the training commission and for board zoning bill. Have a motion. So we went on to the council. I'm sorry. I'll second. Okay. We got a motion to second. All those in favor say I. I. Those oppos say nay. Okay, that is approved. Any other correspondence at this time? No, sir.

Okay. If I might suggest uh the other cases here that I'd like to maybe skip the first case, they're getting some turning done right now. Maybe we can take the next case in line first. Okay. All right. And this this case at MJ-22-06 is not a public hearing. Is that right? public hearing was at the last meeting. Okay. with case MJ22-0016 Africa Francisco Delgado Caring with DGT Incorporated project is Sunill Farms major subdivision location 28 North 500 West Indiana Township zoning residential district request one year extension of previous approved All right. 22 subdivision.

Good evening. Doug Reic with DBG representing Francisco who was here as well. He's the owner and developer of the subdivision. Sunfield Farms is a subdivision that was approved two years ago in January of 2024. Um there's been some delays getting it off the ground, but we have made some progress and we have uh we had a contract sign with the underground uh contractor. They moved in equipment. They built their construction entrance and then the weather got kind of probably here in December pretty quickly. Uh but we are underway and so we're here tonight typically asking for an extension. Typically, it's a one-year extension for primary flat, and we intend to build the first phase of the subdivision immediately. Um, the roads going in probably by June or so. We have the only underground work in builds and so forth, but it's they just got started and then the weather turn out, but they were hoping to be working all through January, February on dirt work, but hoping these results can get started here pretty soon. But yeah, we're simply asking for an extension previous

I'd like to make a motion we give a one-year extension of the previously approved primary flat 6. We got a motion in a second. Is this force? waste finance. All those in favor say I.

I. Those oppos. Thank you very much. Next case is Z-2029-33 oil company of capital location 597 township commercial district meeting CM moderate the personal district for the full construction of a gas station and multiple offices units and parks. Well, good evening uh commission council members and commission members. My name is David. I am with solutions out of point Indiana with just partners out of point Indiana as well. Adam Caline from Caline Consulting Ala and again we're here uh we met with you guys back in December and uh a great interaction with the board members in the community and we're here tonight to uh address and provide you guys the next best version we have based on the information that we had. Um again we want to acknowledge that we listen carefully to commission members and nearby residents that were here that

spoke on behalf of this project. um and everything that reflects meaningful changes in response to that. Um we don't have the power so we have to go paper. So our our biggest thing our biggest thing we page two there was uh for the community put in the board uh the five topics that really hit home to us was density, traffic, utility connections, emergency access and tax and permitted uses. So, we're here tonight to discuss those things and show you that we made a good faith effort to address those. On the next page, you'll see that this was the previous layout uh that was presented back in December. Uh it was a sea store that had fuel capacity on the uh south uh west corner of the property or the west quantum of the property and it had six units with a detention pond separate system uh on this uh 8 acre plus or minus piece of property. It's considered 600 US.

I think there might be um that might be the next how it printed out. So on the slide it says previously proposed layout. Yes, that's what we proposed last time. I think the slides of the computer and the slides are printed out are a little different.

So if you go to the next uh uh slide or piece of paper and your packet there, they show a substantial change. Uh we've taken all the units off the US34 work and pushed uh the buildings back on the north side of the building with the sea store fuel station on that west corridor of our property. Uh we increased the size of the u storm water and uh so we immediately handled the density side that was brought back to the commission members saying uh the 10 lb and 5 lb you're right. So we definitely reduce that down on this on this parcel proposer side is also on the next page after that and again your your back might be slightly different as we update this a few minutes ago. We thought we were going to have the visuals in front of you. So bear with us if there's a page here question. Please raise your hand so we'll flag it. Make sure we're addressing any concerns as we go along here. The proposed development is not in your package, but it is it's identical to the um the updated proposed layout.

Can I ask a quick question on that real fast? Yes. How accurate are we tracking the inlet outlets from on the map? Cuz right now it looks like there's only one off. That's that's our plan. There's currently one there and we're currently going to be utilizing that as well. I just wanted to make sure. Yes. Before we leave this page, there's only one inlet outlet, correct? Well, there's one or

I'm guessing it's cut off from 600. I on our paper we can't cut off it must be cut off where the layout of the property is show off the mic. That's what I was asking on both pictures. It's still cut off. Okay. It's okay. I just want to just It's okay. Yeah. Thank you. Right here. Thank you. as you're explaining holds up.

Yeah. So, this right here. Okay. There's only one entrance on the 30. Okay. It's just on your No, that's fine. I just like that. I want to make sure more than one way.

So, this shows it lining up here. So there's there's a there's access here where you could pull that off at 30 and then you can continue and then discharge out on 600 or vice versa. All right. So we're at so next slide will be utilities. Okay. This is where they come in. We've got to talk about the utilities drainage and water access based on the concerns and questions that were brought up from residents and commission members last month. Good evening. Um again I'm going to touch on septic drainage and um water accessible water access for this development. Um system is still proposed on this site plan. We were asked to look into the possibility of a connection to a public water supply, a public sewer system, which is 1,400 ft down the road at school. Um, so we did a side-by-side analysis of the Monzite system versus an offsite utility extension, but uh we're still arriving at such a system as the preferred alternative for this site, which would be approved through the Indiana State Department of Health and go through all of those formal processes. And in the words of our soil consultant, we did soil samples. He said, "These are the most conducive soils for septic systems in the entire county. Um, very well- drained soils were within a mile with sand." Um, it was formerly a septic system with a motel and a restaurant. The entire surrounding area is currently served by septic systems. Uh so although there is a utility system down the road um this is a perfect site for a septic system um that would be combined with these four it will be a combined subject system for the four business park units and uh gas station at the corner

besides that there was some discussion about drainage as David mentioned there's a large home arrangement detention shown there on the most high so we would have done as well within the requirements of four county's requirements and an outlet at an approved 33. Indiana American water has a public water main on the west side of 600 that we would tie into and have to be connected and into this development serition. Yes, excuse me. Is there septic five individual systems or one combined? One combined system.

How many down?

We don't know yet. That would be depend. So the way it works with these types of systems is you test your soils and then you send that and you and then you put together a worksheet that shows the anticipated usage um based upon the types of businesses they're going in. at the gas station in these business historic buildings. Uh we put together our estimate about what we see as the gallons per day usage and then the Indiana State Department of Health um provides us with their input and based upon their input and the types of soils that's how you design and the system. So those those values are not yet known but um depending on the outcome of this meeting and the the reason that's that's what we proceed to next. I would answer questions because you're not sure what businesses are going to go to go in there, right? Some use more more water than than others besides our subject. What you do is you get a the Indiana State Department of Health actually wants Buffalo floor plans and they want to know based upon number of employees how many how much waste you anticipate. It's all estimate at the end of the day how much waste is going to get the line but they know some general values and then they know the types of waste that come out of like a convenience store that might have food production. And so then they tell you how they want it to be treated. You might run it through no grease trap. You might airrate the waste and then you would send it into goes into the septic system. So the check on all of this to so that it's properly designed and

permitted is the Indiana State Department of Health and my experience is there they they scrutinize these very closely. And so that's um that's what we would work toward. And answer your question on an ownership level, we would overengineer the item so that it can accommodate a higher need if we have an institution where we need it. We don't want to turn away a potential tenant because we can't accommodate their their amount of waste.

So we look at that as a risk factor on our part. If we if we engineer to the bare minimum, we can limit ourselves and say, well, we can only do exactly what we plan. And so we want to have some flexibility as far as it's concerned to the waste water. So we would have an overengineering factor until we get all the reporting done. I don't know what that is. But whatever it is, I I we do know that we're going to have a certain percentage more than what we need. Is it typically 10% more, 15, 20 year old? Um it depends on the site.

It probably depends on how much we did on the site be on it. So the footprint we have now we actually only need half. It might be you know 20 or 40% more cuz that gives us we look at that gives us more flexibility. Obviously those uses and those buildings would need to be permanent in the future through through the county. Um but it's just removing one that could represent itself for potential tenant in the future. Do you have any prospective tenants that aren't interested in any of those four buildings? As of right now, we have talked to some people. We don't have anything even as solid as an LOI yet.

So, what kind of businesses are you talking to? Um the type of b businesses I can say that I foresee being there. Um I foresee a lot of uh types of trade users like you'd have like ACC contractors you know civil engineers people that have need for indoor interop area for a shop type of setting and then also some type of office use not high levels of sewer use but there is an office component to it.

Yeah this this was a movie that's a spoiler. The next slide is going to address that. So um and and just to I sign when we put pen of paper before our initial calculations were for the gas station any units in our property with reduction of the density. We feel very confident those those measures are even larger larger capacity as we look down the road here. I hope that answers the the sea store is would go immediately though to answer your question.

So I guess on the next page utilities we're going to go right into what the CM uses were or on this property. And so this would be the other part where the community came in because they really talked about uh the traffic flow, the school down the street business would be coming through there. And if you go to the next page after that, we self-regulated ourselves to highlight in yellow the things that we would not put in this location. Okay? And that's a 36% reduction of what is the permitted use on there. So what we did leave on there are things that are daytime operations or very low impact traffic flow. That way that's a commitment being a good neighbor to this people that's there. And we heard that loud clear from the commission members and we heard it from the moderators or the people that were here just concerned about what might be going on 8 plus acre lots. And so if the condition uh feels uh appropriate for approval, we would like this to be part of the condition that these are the types of businesses that would come in and these are the types of business that would be prohibited from coming to that location.

Are those buildings single use or they be split up? I I envision them being single use. I I don't think they they um present themselves well to multit 36% work hard. So um then we get into uh the architectural and the elements of these buildings. uh let Matt talk about this because I think it's very important to know uh just so much what poss what what is it going to look like aesthetically as you drive by this location. So uh we wanted to have something that obviously accommodates the overlay district. Um so predominantly masonry 100% masonry front. Uh there is some signage on there and then on the sides where it would turn it would be an LP material on the sides and then a metal facade around the uh additional material material and that going on the further back on the side that's not the that's the larger structure and that metal facade on the rear the material we're showing here is to create an architectural steer for the development. So, we wouldn't necessarily want to see all the buildings identical where this what we're showing here is they're identical and they certainly could be uh but we're going to create the REA restricted easement agreements, we're going to have uh our special standards as well. So, anybody coming in if we sell a lot and instead of building ourselves and leasing it, they'll first have to meet these standards, but then also have to come in the front approvals for the buildings as well. So it kind of creates a a starting point for them for some consistency in the in the park and it would be we want to have materials that are in line with the sea store. So there's architectural cohesion throughout the development.

The other uh question was brought up in the previous slide. talk about access and fire protection, fire safety, access to those uh additional um business development for buildings on that north side. Uh by adding those four buildings and eliminating the side southside development, we did push the road access road further towards 30 uh within those uh parameters. Uh and then there have specific drive aisles in the parking lot fields. So this is their access if there ever was an emergency that takes place at any of these given businesses. We didn't cut off any traffic flow that was coming in and out of this uh this project here. That was another point of contention that the commissioner brought up to us. We want to make sure that we heard that and we address that concern here tonight as well. We're also looking at making provisions for turnaround at the end. Um you know, so if somebody pulls into the furthest parking lot of a large fire truck, perhaps they have the ability to negotiate their way out of the site. So, it's not just dead end road. There's the ability to navigate your vehicle in and out.

I have a quick question about uses. I see under food and drinks pretty much have all of that crossed off. Why? Why did that portion for the four buildings? Yes.

Okay. The food and drink going to take place that I I guess I should make that clear. the intended uses that we piloted that we would eliminate would be for those four buildings that the sea store is going to have probably a food component that's in there. We want to make sure that that's a natural flow that goes in and out of the convenience store there. We wanted to make sure that we didn't want to have a QSR or anything like that or traffic comes in and out of there. The residents talk about additional stacking additional vehicles that would come in there. The fuel station doesn't generate traffic. You don't go out look for a gas station. you become you come upon it didn't stop right and so that we thought that was very important that the other intended uses of the core buildings we did want to ask that that was a circle of traffic that was for business use that makes sense any restrictions here that the uh that the body here doesn't feel like we need we don't want any additional restrictions that we have

I just thought you know there are three schools right there um having like an ice cream shop or a small sandwich shop I don't And what what do you guys think about that? It would I see both sides of it. They're saying it would potentially draw more traffic, but at the same token. Yeah. Well, I would see the uh you know, the popular coffee chain going in. The line for that in the morning would be the worst thing that you Yeah, definitely not coffee. But with the gas station, I mean, they you have most of that in the gas station. Yeah. Yeah. I think the owner of that location there wasn't a president's office.

Yep. Okay. Can I make an observation and ask a question? On this particular drawing, u going back to your example of an HBAC company, a lot of these uh small business have seiz um and some of these turns would awful tight semi and to load or unload HVAC equipment. Uh the question is do any of these four have elevated voting maps?

No, I don't I don't think if they're when people do their site selections if they're heavy semi use they're not going to be looking at this site. We don't have depressed docks when we don't have raised docks. We do have over an upper head doors there. Uh some of these buildings may have two overhead doors on the final design but we're not going to accommodate um a heavy use like that. That would be if somebody decided to do that probably that's I do want to add just in case we did didn't take this correctly the restrictions that we're looking to add are on the additional four buildings not the store site but there will be a food option inside of the sea store.

Oh okay cooler I think it'll be self serve but just a uh issues. Do I understand right? Store is 5,000 foot. Yeah. And I believe there's a you should have a right where the store looks like that is a so on the lower area that is 100% masonry and then the upper area like would be like material all the way around.

Uh predominantly all the way around. Yes. Um the and then in the rear of the building which isn't of course shown here, it actually has a depression in the roof that hides all of the RCU and any type of kitchen equipment that would be there. So it's not seen uh from the ground and it's not on the ground. Sorry, let me make a comment on these buildings. It would be better to take that facade and put I'm calling in front. I see some of the best up. Yeah, it's a small area here on the front, but you know, it wraps around about 2 ft on the side. And and this might be a good Don't forget we have all of our code that still applies. We have a route 30 overlay that still applies. when we deal with the sanitary issue, we still have an issue that in the zoning that they're in, that's going to be a special exception. I know what they're presenting and this is what they want. But again, when we come back to the unintended uses, that's something this plan commission has to spend some time on. If in fact we're going to have written commitments from the petitioner that's restricting some permitted uses then that needs to be that's tonight before we do any recommendation above us. So on those written commitments not only is it permitted uses that I think one of the reasons why we got brought back tonight was to deal with those but also don't forget if it's one of the issues was the density. So if your zone the recommendation to go up is favorable includes only being the sea store and four lots or however the map is working and these permitted uses within the zone are specifically being removed to make

the eventual comfortable. That's the that's what the commitments and the things we should be looking for tonight. Does that make sense? I guess Rick, as you know, we have the route 30 overlay.

This reszone application hasn't been run through. Does it meet all of the requirements of the route 30 overlay? So before we get too far down in like facade material because that will be in there and that's why I thought now would be a good time to bring it up. Then also going to add they have many more steps to go after you. You're just dealing strictly with the zoning. They'll still have to appear before us with precise development plans and the as Scott said the over and over does touch on architecture all those guys you're going to have a lot more advice to be out later but we're just being very transparent to you tonight and we appreciate some of those feedback because as we hopefully eventually uh advance this project forward here we're going to be proactive on some of those concerns with your town as We we know that that as we move forward here and this is something I'll kick over to Adam and on uh where things that were talked about before was the traffic study and things of that nature and the impact of the roadways. Uh and again as we go through the planning commission process all those things will be delivered to you as per the ordinance for building code here for county. Uh but if you guys want to touch on that real quick a little bit we look at I think it's I think it's just important to know there were questions and concerns that the public raised with regard to traffic and close proximity of the schools down the road and we appreciate those same concerns and um depending on the outcome of this meeting frankly um we'll we'll kick off a traffic impact study so that we can we know we're accessing the state highway um and on one of your slides there. This overview of traffic impact study scope. This is three from the traffic consultant 10 most important items that

outlines the scope of work that they intend to accomplish. Um you know some items to consider is we'll be looking at we know we're accessing uh a driveway similar to the speedway just down the road where you're turning into a convenience store off the deceleration lane. We'll be looking at traffic volume split between highway 30 and 600 to determine if the what's the impact of the traffic that could be generated on this side and how does that affect the other traffic and does it require you know another look at the calibration of the light timing. Um, do we have enough stacking depth along 600? I'll compare it to speed wages down the road. This will be better because you won't be letting folks off and trying to get into the lane. So, we're allowing some room away from Highway 30. Um, so just this is the overview and so we we we appreciate these items. Um, these will all be presented, packaged up, recommendations made to my team as we put together the development plan and presented to the department here for further review. As far as traffic goes, these stores are not traffic generators. They they they capture it. So, you're not going to drive across town to go to a particular sea store. You're going to go there if it's convenient for you. Um, so if you're on the right side of the road, if um those are the types of um customers that will stop at a typical sea store, I think I think Scott's right um with the convenience store there. You're right. They're just going to capture people that are coming by. I think we need to look at the unintended uses to make sure that you know we're comfortable with what what they're not uh you know

if it's a bar coffee shop delicate has them they they kind of include that because it's going to be in their sea store so you don't want that there but no they said that it's not the sea store those could go in the sea store that's the sea store I the way to read the food and drink don't read the permitted uses of food and drink as that would prohibit sea store the sea store itself isn't allowed use right so therefore this if we don't allow a coffee shop that would be in one of the in so I'm looking at this as the four buildings are these unintended uses correct so what I'm saying is that I think it's a buildings

well the the the convenience store is allowed in the zoning and encompass coffee, food, beverages, convenience, so the toilet paper, things like that. So we don't even if we took out the permitted use of a restaurant, that wouldn't affect the the sea store at a code level, they're also asking for it not to affect the sea store. I'm saying it won't if we take the restaurant out, right? And so that's why I'm saying with the unintended uses, these are just on strictly the four buildings that that they're that they're asking for. And um I think if everybody looked at this, you know, fitness centers, recreational, you know, dry clean, uh daycare, child, you know, that would be the things that that would run through my mind. But that's why I think we need to focus on this. If we're if we're good with this with the four buildings, then

I think the things that they've highlighted that they wouldn't be out there with draw a large amount of traffic. So that's going to help improve the traffic down area also. Right. So I have a question though. Can they in the sea store, you know, you commonly see like a Taco Bell or a Pizza Hut or what? Can they do that as part of the sea store? Yeah. Okay. That that's the one right now. I think from your last meeting what staff heard you say you recognize the gas convenience station regardless of the UC as it is now.

Yeah. Or so we put that aside. I think we're the questions he was asking. That's why I'm making that clear. And so what we heard you say, you were concerned about the number of lots which would then dictate the densities and then the use would dictate how much traffic flow. I think I heard you right were the three parameters that you guys were struggling or having questions on. So we met with petitioner and expressed those what we read the commission. So tonight they're coming prepared to do that. It's up to you if you want to accept that or you want to add it. I don't feel weird. I was just concerned and sure

I I live in that area and I will tell you Route 30 is a dead zone in that area. There is nothing. If you want a restaurant, you want to get ice cream or whatever, you have to go to Marville and the closest on the east side is Jack Hill. So I personally would not be opposed to an ice cream shop or a something small. I I agree with you about a coffee shop because you have a million people coming in with coffee and and that could that could create a traffic thing.

I was thinking right at the convenience store, but if it's off the way, somebody's going to have to think harder about going coming off and then going further in. They're sometimes think harder than if it's right at the gas station. I guess I'd love to know what's going to be at that gas station. Well, and like I said, to me, that's it'll be what it'll be. But yeah, I could see I see the ice cream shop cuz that might be kind of a nice little hangout for the kids after school. An ice cream shop or or even adult contestant. I mean, there is a adult contestant just like for sandwiches. I don't know.

I honestly You guys have addressed when I had an issue, but my issue was a 10 lbs in a 5 lb bucket. you address that. I believe in my heart or I I believe not even my heart say that but the septic is going to whatever you put in the septic is actually going to limit the amount of people going in that too because you're not going to ever you're going to have to go to the plan commission or the storm water say hey we want to put this thing in here with 20 clients 20 offices and this you're going to say this something's not going to hold it right

and that so that's going to help limit the amount of traffic in and out of it so I I quite honestly I way more comfortable in this than the last time we sat here and talked. Yeah, I agree. That was my main concerns with the the amount of buildings. I think now they they you know scaled it down before I I see a problem.

I still there's there is I I don't know. I mean, it's a it's it's it's we went from we went from six to four buildings. We still have one way in and one way out for the four buildings. We have two over here. We built two other exits. They're going to be the two main exits, but they're still going to be pretty much occupied by the gas station. Um, and I'm not so much looking at the fact of what businesses are going to be and what businesses aren't going to be in there. I mean, I I see a little bit of a a reduction, but I I still don't see how there wouldn't be a problem there down the road. Um, it's better, but you went from four to six. You still have one way in, one way out, regardless of the two other entrances. Um, but I mean, it's slightly better, I guess. I would say not to address your question way. out unless there's another is there another drive on the east part of long US30? No. Okay. So long US30 and I was in it when it happened. That's that's limited access right away. They bought not only the right for the rightway. They bought the right for access across the line. So if that's a condition you want, you certainly can put that in there. But then the petitioner will have to believe in that and request reasoning why they need to break the pilots.

Your lot is 990 ft wide. Is that correct by 360? Where does the the acceleration length start in relation to your property line? uh is it within 990 ft or is it before the um if you look at the conceptual rendering you'll see it's overlaid on an aerial image so you see the existing former entrance to the restaurant they don't have it's it's just to the oh I think I can just see it right here

that's that's just a conceptual rendering that'll be further refined I think that that's what I think I'm getting at. You're going from a de acceleration lane from here to cut it in half. That's right. So, so the question is, can that be sent farther to the east? Extended east.

Those will all be issues that um a couple comments. Uh those will all be issues that are sorted out with INDOT in order to create a commercial access drive on the state highway to look at um deceleration. They'll look at traffic speed. Um and it's worth pointing out it's the identical situation that's demonstrated speedway. And I would say that that situation is less considered as far as engineering goes because they just have a wide open pavement anywhere into that convenience store. But no, those are all issues that we'll work through and and they will have a continuum where it's the conversations within with other locations with easements that are of this nature. The conversation we had with them was um and I believe it was my statement but they reaffirmed it that it was equivalent of act of cut to get to get across the rest.

I didn't have a question. How I look at this? This is basically you're putting in a frontage truck. Is that correct? Is that I mean I my question is this is kind of down the road looking

is that road you're putting in uh capable of like if they would want to extend it like if somebody else would want to go further east is what I'm asking and that becomes more developed out on that corridor would this road be able to sustain that kind of traffic I mean is it too Is it built to like uh I guess it was highway standards or county road standards by width? I I just wonder, you know, cuz I'm thinking now my brain's got going down the future and that corridor through there. Who knows what's going to happen and does this become a like, like I said, a frontage. Yeah. Like they you know, you go down by Albany down there, they got frontage roads being built down across there to keep the traffic off there. You move from building to building up. I mean, is that was that considered or is that kind of

not at all somewhere out in the middle of nowhere right now? I would say not at all. And and I would say a burnish road that has been considered in the past in the town of Marville was strongly sponsored by the town, I'm sure, in order to create frontage roads off of the state highway. In this case, this is an access drive to serve four buildings that's privately maintained.

I understand that. answer your question. I'm just trying to think out outside of this. You know, we're we're looking at a plan that, you know, this isn't today, tomorrow. This is the future. And I we had somebody up here one day and we had to put a sidewalk off in the middle in the front of a subdivision because the future. That's that's what I'm concerned about, you know, in my head. It's like if this ever comes to pass, is this something that could be done in the original thing? That way, we're thinking ahead of time. I would say no because the west leads you right into the fuel can if it's intended to be a road that would continue along the Okay, I'm just

north side of highway 30 and we go east and west. I would say I I understand that but I'm just trying to mean like long-term planning where like you said continues to go east. Yeah. And that roadway becomes long-term planning connection point. You're going to have other accesses under 30. Yeah. Which possibly could be something looked at. But I say that that today would be a a use for that standard type of roadway. I think that's site development plan concept conversation pass but a little bit that makes sense. Yeah, it does. I just try if I can help clarify maybe put this aside.

Okay. So the other steps they got to go they got to go through a site development plan and our UDO does require you will require that thing continues to we can address that and that oh that's quite all right and you know as I was talking before that's limited access right I'm telling you having worked at like they said it's tough to get it's not impossible but it's not so your question on that issue that you brought up is this use knowing fully well you can't get it. You know, that's the question you got to answer yourself. So, I'm just telling you from practical experience when it comes to limited access right away. It's not an easy thing to get cuz in about a year that access, right? And they did it for a reason because they don't want driveways willy-nilly along that roadway. Okay. So, to put it hopefully it puts to bed the thing about continuing the road. We will deal with that during site with our ordinances and you can mention it. A lot of town towns do mention that because they want the continuation of calling. Okay. Does that does that answer your question?

Yeah, it does. I was just, you know, so again tonight your job is do you want to get this zoning based on what you hear? Is it good for reasons that they present? view on the building conditions such as the number of locks which controls the density and the number of buildings and I think that's we need to refocus there have those discussions

I got a couple more pieces here that I think are valuable because you guys are a hybrid of a lot of different representation here you got commissioner you got council and you have a public uh connection on this on this board so you guys do represent different various important schemes that for county uh and again this is why this last be what's leading the charge I think solid uh planning procedures here that we present here tonight based on the two we have here we actually did impact this would move forward in it current form what this does to the other basis of development um so under here we do have uh impacts on payroll tax base, county revenues, uh economic impact. So if you go impact payments on here, uh it's again with reduced density delivery meaningful public benefit uh construction jobs. Uh whereas if it was a single use uh scenario, we're looking at anywhere in plus or minus 60 construction jobs. But if you see under plan, you're looking over 150 construction jobs. These are people that work and deliver and deliver your community. When you start to look at permanent jobs, if you look one single use, you might have 10 permanent part-time positions and I see location here. The CI play does offer opportunity for 90 to 130 permanent jobs focus on office business uh sources warehouse users that is in the CM uh portfolio list that's being presented to you for an opportunity to locate there. Uh and these are local year round jobs not transit or high impact uses and so we get back into whether in dollars and cents uh everything reductions are coming in. Um again I'm not using this as part of reality. Uh so what we start to do with the

conservative Indiana wages and assumptions one location there would produce anywhere plus or -50,000 on a barrel or the current use with the lower density that's proposed here could produce anywhere over $4.25 $2.5 million and annual revenue which goes in real income tax which Porter County has a district 2.5 which is which is nice but that still doesn't provide uh impact to those buckets that can help with other areas. Uh and then you start to look at the community property tax base where CH development would be about 5 or 6 million this would be about 15 plus million taxable uh improvements. So we need more assessed valuation, more stability, better return existing infrastructure. Again, that shouldn't be the pressure point or anything like that that makes the decision here. But it is part of the equation when you start to look at the different bodies we set up here and who we represent again pieces of why this might go through those are those are valuable conversations to have as well. Um again, we respect the porter county approach to growth. uh we've listened, we've adjusted, we voluntary pulled some of the uh project uh back uh reszoning from CAC doesn't increase its intensity, but it corrects maybe a zoning area that has always been a challenge that location. You talk about very little development location going over the time there, right? So we felt that this is a responsible way to support jobs tax base flexibility and that was the approach of what require sustainable uh development. Um it it was brought upon us that we talked about before. Um you know so you you talked about Lake County, right? The only way county we understand that and as we move forward here uh we're not bringing Lake County Per County. We are taking Per County value

and vision and trying to develop what you want to have here tonight. And so we're we're all in on that as well. I appreciate that. Commissionerbody questions for me. It just boils down to everybody's head with going from six to four buildings. Honestly, that's the bottom line. So, do we have a motion? Well, and and again, if we're going to do these if if we are going to have written a commitments, I want everyone to understand whatever that we are pulling out of permitted, that's a legal document that gets produced after this meeting that's executable and recorded on the property if the commissioners approve the reszone. So, it's it's it's serious document that if we're going to pull permitted uses out or we're going to limit loss, let's be very clear about it. We discussed drainage. Um the reality is when you do a a drive by that particular site and as I mentioned before you're the width is 990 but you're also getting water drainage from all of Route 30 and whatever from that culverton ditch is going east to west that's also flowing towards your properties. I'm not quite sure how how we handle that. Well, we haven't done the that part of it yet. So we obviously will need to meet all the standards that's required.

In your experience in the past, could something like that be corrected or how would you deal with something like that? Yeah, if I could if I could maybe address that. Sure. They'll still have to follow the county storm water ordinance, whatever it is. And it's pretty stout ordinance and they're proposing four lots. And let's say the calculations say, well, we need a pond bigger or we need this or that one. Well, they're going to have to make a business decision. It may not be four lots. It may not three lots. Okay. Let me ask the question this way. The the initial problem when you do the driveway down Route 30, it's not on their property. They have to account for the water that enters their property and leave their property.

Okay, good to know. That's in our deal at the time they turn in into drawing showing all their calculations meeting our requirements. And like I said, you may say up to four lots. Not exactly cuz they have to have more space to put a septic system in. They have to stay home and they have to make bigger detention pond because the calculations from storm water says that then they can only do two or three months.

There's a lot of things that may change and what we're doing today is just cooling. If the if the if the upper limits I guess it would be at at this stage if four was the septic in the drainage were allowed is four comfortable now they may very well have four or they could get through engineering and end up with three that's the way it would change but instead of necessarily worrying exactly what the final product is worry about is this use okay and is this many lots okay that's that's the key at this Now, I didn't ask Bob, so I just want to confirm this. We're basically going from the zoning that allows one building on that property

to allowing them to change zoning so they have four buildings on that property. Is that true? Or multiple buildings. Is that what we're doing? That's true or false. If they decide to keep it as all one property, 8.1 acres, they could put what the UDO allows them to put, it could be more in one building. Okay. I just can't have a five less than a 5 acre lot and see zoning because that's where other otherwise they'd have to be aquariums or they'd have to come to here and what they're doing is asking for construction. My understanding is we could have multiple structures on one lot as long as it met our criteria. Yes, correct.

But we don't we don't wouldn't like that cuz we like separate parcels to have separate buildings. So the whole premise of them being here is they want to subdivide into lots. That's really their aim here.

The acres of the gas station itself, you know, the the lot of the gas station. Out of the 8 acres, what's the gas station compartment of two? About two. So it's 6 acres for the four rooms. So two acres per one and a half. They're there like two one one and then the last another remnant these because it goes the property line would extend all the way to 230 whereas the others proposed property line would extend over to the detention the middle the three buildings that make sense and keep in mind if they get into subdivision they're going to be coming back again because they got to go do subdivision control. So this is not the end of this.

Could I ask Scott to please repeat the legal implications on what we're doing?

So if we send a favorable recommendation to reszone this property as requested, the CM uses are allowed and they have outlined the CM uses highlighted in yellow. Those were the ones that they self uh performed based upon last meeting uh and what the board basically was trying to communicate as far as the density of the traffic. The density was two layers. It was the last and the uses. So this is in response to the uses. The legal ease of it all is if in fact they're reszoned, they're allowed to use any any of these permitted uses. are allowed to go upstairs and get a permit. At this stage when we reszone as part of the negotiation, this is when uses that we don't feel work, whether it's a density issue or a traffic issue or some other issue. This is where on the reszone, the plan commission as the advisory body doing the public hearings, etc., sending the recommendation to the commissioners are supposed to figure out and propound what should be in here, if anything. So, lots of reasons happen without written commitments, but a lot happen with written commitments. And this is how you get there legally if it would be part of the motion if it is in fact you guys included.

Well, I'm going to go back to what I said earlier. Um, there are three schools within quarter of a mile of this facility and I'd like to see something that would present the school also. Um, I don't agree with, you know, having a tavern or a coffee shop or a restaurant. I agree with Nikki, but I don't think a small delicatesscent or pizza carry out or ice cream shop is going to hurt. That's just my opinion. And and you can make that one piece of advice I would give you. Okay.

Being in the traffic profession before doing these traffic impact studies, the big key is if you got drive up windows, that's a lot of traffic. How about no drive up windows? They they just have to walk in the shop and and get it. I'm just thinking about the schools and I'm just I'm telling you the fast food feeders and things with drive up windows just right off the top generally traffic. Yeah. No, I I get it. If it would be possible to make it to where it would not be any type of a a drive up window. I don't know if we did have the right to do that.

You guys do. Yeah, I just I I guess I would just like to see the people in the area benefit from this location, too. As I mentioned, there's there's nothing on Route 30 at all in that area. But that's that's just my make recommend. So, if you want to make a motion to recommend with those changes, you can do that. Um, okay. I'll I'll make a recommendation or motion, I'm sorry. to resume

to to resone to allow an ice cream shop and a like a pizza carry out shop. Just something to benefit the the people in the area. Nothing with drive up windows or anything that would would create any extra traffic. So, I think what I'm hearing is a motion to approve the requested reszone and to accept the unintended uses as presented by the petitioner excluding

contestant and ice cream shop. I miss Well, there's nothing here. Did I mess this up? Just so I so so I'm clear. Okay. The gas station as it sits right now can have a coffee shop delicate and some ice cream shop. Mhm. The sea store. You're talking about the talking about three or four. Not but other buildings. Correct. From the other if they choose to have it. They choose to have it.

But if they don't then there won't be one. Realistically, the the cost of the rent on a building that size, an ice cream shop's just not going to make the kind of money to put that kind of rent saying, but the reality, the economics of it, um I don't see it happen, but we can at least allow it if it could. Certainly, but I just want to do something for the people in the area, too. I mean that's that was my only concern. Do we have a second?

Well, I don't think we have a completed motion yet. So, let let me restate it again and correct me if I'm wrong. I think your motion is to approve the requested reszone as as presented by the petitioner to to not allow drivethroughs within any of the permitted uses. that the unintended uses as presented by the by the petitioner in the packet highlighted in yellow would be removed from the permitted use list through a set of written commitments except for ice cream shop and delicate test and I what I haven't heard is whether or not you're limiting the lots four five so and and how you say it whether it's the the commitment we all know the C scores go in there so we can go on to say the motion includes that the unintended uses being removed uh by written commitment on the uh shall only apply to the back to the remaining maximum four lots.

Yeah. So, I think I understand my own creation here. Four lots maximum, no drive-thru. The zone as requested is approved. The permitted uses are uh the unintended uses are removed but for ice cream shop and delicate testament. Okay. That's correct. That is the sea store plus a maximum of four out lots.

The only thing I if I could just like to make a suggestion is on those four buildings or those four lots uh no drive up windows. I just want to make sure I didn't hear that. No, it's okay. That's part of this proposed motion. Okay. Is that your motion? Yes. This would be so like if if the school wanted to order sandwiches for the teachers or they wanted to get ice cream for the classes they or look at Velvet over here, you know, they're a pretty big store but they don't have a dresser. Yeah, we have a second. Okay, now discussion. I did.

I have one question for you on the permit uses. It says automobile oil alantine parts facility. What is that? Can somebody tell me that?

I don't know. I don't know what that is. It's uh it's very unique. We're googling. Why did I do that?

Oil change. Typo. Typo. Oil change. Oil change. That should be oil. I think that that might be Australian, but it's like it should be chang

but on ours it has oil change facility. Okay. So, it's a typo. We got typo. Okay. Any other discussion? This is where the other members, if you would want additions or subtractions from the motion, this is where we make those comments. I'm still I'm still concerned with the subject and I don't know how to get around it cuz it's the horse of the cart.

Hold on a second. We're getting the comments that will be without um I I appreciate the use of scale back on that scale back on the road. Okay. still concerned with the uh septic when you look at the terrain there's a lot of rollins that I understand dealt with after the fact but um well to be it's not just designed after the fact whether that is a septic or a sanitary hasn't been totally decided and would be a special exception in this zoning so again we're relying back on our code

so the only realizing cuz like I had said, you know, oh well that was a simple typo. I'm looking at that list. They had gas station but was not on this commercial uses list. And I'm not saying it's a problem but I'm just pointing out what I think got lumped into that word. Um oil change facility, part sales, auto grill, auto repair air service, auto sales, auto wash. So, I'm just pointing out because I said, "Well, that's what it was." CH I was looking at CH. Oh, I Okay, never mind.

I thought it was that one. Okay. So, I just want to point out I thought I was wrong, but sorry, I got CH more use CN from there. Right.

I thought that's where I saw some of your cuz you had on there. That's why I started mixing it so there's extra words and but I am good with what we're saying including like I said I like the ice cream some I have some of the other concerns that you know were brought up but no I'm right about that college right leg.

He doesn't know your name right now.

Not right legally. Heat. Heat. in the case for ZO 2025-33 for the motion are as follows. Yes. All right. Redstone, yes. Ardan Mer, yes. Rick Burns, yes. Craig Kenworthy, yes. Bob Gilliana, yes. I take it. This is your

Yes. And Ed Morales, no. Motion passes. Seven. I mean understanding of your changes. Thank you. Okay, next we have our staff report um update on the comprehensive plan. Um, some of you, if you not already, you will be shortly being contacted by our consultant on the comprehensive plan to you're invited to attend. We're having a public open house on the comprehensive plan at the expo center. I believe it's February 23rd. Uh, they will also be reaching out to you. A lot of you are very much into social media platforms and we're asking you kindly to spread the word that gives you the information that maybe you do post on your social media page if you have one or if you care to uh to kind of get the word out so we can have the public uh attend the campaign to advertise this began officially yesterday. There'll be press release is going on the county web page has already got it posted on their page. We'll be putting posters out around the county and the more public we get involved here because we're at the stage now. We collected a lot of information. It's been somewhat distilled and refined and we want to run this by the public to see if they see it the same way we do based on their comments they gave us and over last year. So, it's going to be a pretty important meeting. And then sometime after that for some of you uh that are sitting here also on the steering committee there'll be a steering committee meeting following that sometime in close order. So we're getting close to getting to the point where we're going to give the consultant the direction to write the document for our draft review. Um we intend obviously

it's going to come to the planning commission. It's going to be a very voluous document. So we've asked them you know usually these comp plan sometimes are this thick. So we asked them, hey the main gist of it's got to be 25 40 digits tops and we can have all these other documents over here if you want to follow through. So uh definitely going to be calling upon you sometime to make the recommendation to the commission as whether or not to adopt this land use and federal fair plan as part of the comp plan. So get ready. A lot of reading to do, a lot of participation. This is going to chart the future of development quarter county and land use for years to come. Plan commission subcommittee. Uh we had our first meeting. Some of you were in attendance to that. I thought it was well attended. A lot of good discussion. First meeting we just spent the time uh going over certain key points of the UDO. Uh Susan and Kurt and I uh made presentation to them kind of telling getting up to speed. I think it's a really good group. So just like the uh steering committee for the comprehension group of people representing different interests, different walks of life. Uh same could be the planning commission suddenly. Our next meeting probably be sometime in February where we start challenging the committee uh bringing some ideas that staff has or maybe we've heard elsewhere. U so more to come on that. That's as far as I got staff report. And lastly, under other business, uh I didn't have it last time, but in front of you is the calendar for 2026. I need a motion and approval of this calendar so we can support as you know in November, December because of holidays and all that, we try to sometime

I'll second. Okay. made a motion. All those in favor say I. I motion sir. All favor.