Development Review Committee - Regular Meeting

But we'll go ahead and get started. It's 9:00. We'll call the meeting to order. I have five members present. Um I'm going to skip the first case and wait for the planner to come down. That's quite a list of uh waiverss we need to discuss. So we'll start case number two, UV 2025-51. Applicant is Audrey and Adam Lamir. 248 East, 250 south, Morgan Township. They're currently zone A1 general agriculture. Today is an informal review on the operation of a full service payment management repair business out of their resident. They're representatives of this case. Please come to the microphone. Uh we do not have our audio visual system. So we ask everybody speak very loudly. We're going to try to record on our security system. So don't

Good morning. Good morning. If you could uh state your names and your address and the purpose of you being here. So Adam and Audrey speak up real loud. Adam and Audrey um 248 East 250 South and um we are uh running a pavement maintenance company out of our residence. What kind of operation is that pavement man maintenance company? Sorry, it's actually a franchise. Um, and it's it's um predicated on a truck and trailer type business. So, it is just we've got a couple trucks and some you know trailers where we we don't do the work obviously out of our outside of our house. So, what work is it you do specifically for

commercial pothole repair um steel coating and line strength. Okay. So, mostly commercial lot. We try and do commercial. We do residential. Um I said nothing at the house other than just storage of the equipment. Um, we don't do full scale like driveways, milling, um, uh, redoing, you know, ma massive projects like that. Kind of a niche. Um, so we do the smaller, uh, pop repair, reseal it, and then, uh, mine strike. Anything else you want to add? No. Um, what what is it? What kind of equipment you're going to have?

Two heavy duty trucks. Um, F2 uh, F250s, an enclosed trailer, our paint trailer. Um, and then we have a a seal coat trailer that you know tank looking thing that has a spray hose and those stored inside or outside? Outside. What about your work product like sealer and things like that? Stealers in a tank or we pick it up uh locally at the seal master in Marville or South Bend. Those are two main locations. So, is there is there much storage on the side of the product?

Not really. I mean, we had we do have a larger tank kind of a bulk tank that we store stuff in, but it's it's got limitations to it. Um, a lot of we have maybe 10 5 gallon, you know, buckets of paint inside the shop. We usually run and pick those up specific for the jobs. Um, depend on the color and the type that the customer wants. So, there's really no point in storing a ton of it at our shop. And we don't really still have the room for it. So, and do customers visit you at your home? No. And how many employees do you have? Um, we only have three full-time employees and then we have a couple like high school students that work for us in the summer, our own kids that we're trying to teach them. We're kind of too.

Yeah, we're trying to utilize the community, but they're getting ready to go back to school. So, we're actually in kind of a little bit of a bind. You and all the people they're all they're all leaving. So, our labor force has been our one of our toughest challenges. Um, but we've had a lot of luck with our community kids and I said, we're just in a bit of a tinch now as they head back to school. Very good. So you understand this is just an informal review. We have various representatives of different functions of the county. They're going to give their input on things. You will have to appear before the EDA to get your use variant. This is just one step along the way, but because you're running a commercial business, you have to appear here. Sure. Okay. Understood. Dave, we'll start with you.

Sure. So um just to make sure I understand the situation, is this an oper? So this is something that you're already currently doing. It's currently under operation. Uh was any hardcaping added to any uh impervious surface added to your property to support this effort? Uh like we put in a gravel um like a parking lot essentially behind our existing bar. The only structural change we did just a couple thumb trucks full of gravel. What would you what would you estimate is the size of that gravel area? 100 by I think we did it 100 by [Music] almost like 100 by 100 maybe. Okay. Mix around with Okay. Um

what's the acreage of your lot? 10 acres. [Music] So, um, how long have you been, uh, running this operation from your home? A year. One year.

Um, if I'm going to ask some questions I think would would come up regardless of who, you know, was going first on this. So, um, if I miss anything, I'm sure that somebody else will will, um, you know, ask ask these types of questions. I'm just trying to get my head wrapped around um, what the operation is like. um in terms of you know the neighborhood what what type of noise is associated with your operation. Is it from what you're saying you don't do the work on your site so is it more or less just the sound of your truck coming and going from the property like anybody else's truck will come and go from their property. Almost everybody on the street has a generator and it's about our machines are about the the noisiest generator or a lawn mower.

Okay. Um maybe put some context. I went out there where your operation is well off behind your house too. Right. Right. It's further back on your property. It's So we have our our house is set back and the barn set back behind that which pretty was existing already and then we have our little parking lot behind that. So we're probably in the middle of our 10 acres as I call it. I assume you're doing any type of emergency service or anything. You're not you're not getting calls at 3:00 a.m. to start no start up equipment or anything like that. Um, see you already addressed this question.

We do do some overnight jobs just depending on our customer, but again the noise is minimal to a car leaving you coming home just the same way a nurse might come home from a lake to go or something. Okay. Um, so we talked about the noise. Uh, we talked about um, Mr. Debo already asked about the visual. Um, so you standard hours of operation or 8 to 5 type of thing. It is just like you said, it is hard because since it's commercial, a lot of our um customers will ask us to do it outside of their working hours. So, it just depends. A lot of a lot of weekends or or night jobs. We have students jobs and we have to do those overnight. So, but for the most part, they're standard. We can we can close lots down like half a time and

for the most part he doesn't want to work overnight. So, I wish it was 9 to5, but it's just unfortunately sometimes. But again, from from the from the perspective of folks that are in your neighborhood that where you're living, they're not oh goodness, they got a they got another job at 2 and now I'm you know all the there's no disruption to their life because of whatever hours you have to work with. Correct. No further questions for me. [Music]

Yes. No further questions. So, when you have employee, I mean, are you guys starting out at your property? Um, I mean, are you do you have an office at your property that you're that you're utilizing? The office is a pre-existing office um that again we we use as owners, but um the there's been nothing added for purposes of of the business. or crew will either meet up at the at the house um where they will then jump in work vehicles and go to jobs together or they'll meet up on job sites. It depends on where the jobs are.

Okay. Cuz I mean so I mean but cuz if you're running a business so generally what you have to do is you have to submit to the state and to see if your septic system is sufficiently sized for what you know for the business that you're running. So like if you have employees there and they're using the restroom and everything like that that's additional wastewater load on your septic system. So generally you have to submit like what you have there existing for your residential you know because we size residential septic systems and we do it by number of bedrooms but if you're running a business off your property um and you're tying into your existing system that's a different wastewater load. So like and that has to get sized by the state because locally we size residential, the state size is non-residential or commercial. And um so like generally they want to know like how many employees you have cuz they're using the restrooms like do you have like out in your workshop or your your your barn or whatever. Is there like a shower place where where they're taking showers to clean up after work? things like that cuz that adds on to how many gallons per day of waste water you're generating. And so you may have to expand your septic system to accommodate

what you're doing on the property and running and the business portion of what you're running on the property. Or you might have to put in a separate septic system for like if you're, you know, your office and everything and like all your work is done in a pole barn, you may have to put in a separate system for that pole barn cuz that's where you're running the business and then your house septic would be separate. So their employees are not there, right? So So they're not there. They meet. They meet and then they do the work. All the work is on site. So we don't I understand that. you're still you're staging there and like they're like, "Okay, well, we're loading up trucks and everything like that and

and at the end of the day if they're coming and helping unload and stuff like that and there's other things going on and there's restrooms and you know that's what I'm saying is I don't know what you have out there in terms of your barn like how it's set up and everything like that." So, um, that's something you might want to stop in and just, you know, discuss with with me because then I can give you the information for the contact of the state so you can, you know, submit fill out the application for change of use and everything and just make sure that what's there is sufficiently sized for the business you're running there.

We actually did when we built and just coincidentally, we did put in a double and dual septic system, one that is specific for the barn and our pool house and then our house. Um, and I'm actually having it cleaned out tomorrow, so I have no full capacity, but they're not tied in together. Uh, that I don't know how I don't know. I mean, I know that there was I believe I did the inspection on it. Um, cuz I when I looked at this property, I was like, "Oh, I've been to that property." So, um, it's two he has a pump in two from two spots. I'm assuming they're not tied together. Well, I mean, if there's two separate tanks, I guess my question is, are they all going to one field or is there two separate fields? I believe there's two separate fields. Yeah. I'll have to look at the drawing because I don't think it's good. But you consider your operation seasonal. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Last year I think we finished in early October. Yeah. The film master um where we get our product. They shut down. They literally stop selling the product. They didn't open back up until April this year.

Has to be consistently above 40°. Um no rain, no water. So there's a lot of stipulations to it. And there is a hard cut off of like we can't even get the material. I would suggest maybe before the VCA meeting you schedule a meeting with Dan and sit with the other guys and go over that more detail. Pop down in the health department. We can look up your file and I can just you know cuz we should have or you know even just you can provide me with um just like a layout of like the barn like is it you know the floor plan and stuff. there's if it's if there's a restroom in there and stuff and the pool house and all that which I mean we might we should have that on file too but um and we just kind of go over it really quick before you okay

go to visit just you have your ducks in the next Kevin yeah and I'll just add to that I I was concerned about having the restroom in the out building or the barn whatever and where the employees were doing their business. Uh as well as how about what do you have a central well or do you have individual wells for each one? You have a central well.

Okay. Do we have separation? And he can verify that for you because depending on soil types, he may need to be 100 ft away from septic field. It's it's if it's commercial or not. If it's considered commercial, then their well has to be 100 ft from the septic system. Um, so yeah, that's something we'll talk about. Here's a question being they're seasonal and I'm not suggesting anything because I don't know, but they could also do uh temporary means if they had toilets like chemical toilets. Yeah, I mean you you could there's not really really hard rules on on portons. It's just they have to have enough there for what they're doing and then they can't create a health issue. I guess what I'm saying is there are other options.

Yeah, there is an option there. they could have a portagon for the summer and so it's not going into their septic. Um the other thing I would I would just um caution you about is that sealant and stuff like that. Um it's probably not good for your septic system. So make sure you're not putting that down any drains or I mean I know when you're washing your hands and stuff there's going to be some in there. There's going to be a middle amount but um that can affect how your system works. So just make sure you're not Sure. How did we become aware of this? If they've been doing this for a year, what

uh we had a resident complain that you were running a business error notification. So, code forcement went out there. They were kind enough to go ahead and make their application for use variance. What was the complaint? The business was being Was it was it a noise complaint? A visual? No, I think it was just the fact there was a business without proper use variance. It's not zoned for the business. Anything else? No. Continue.

Yeah. To follow up, you said exactly what I was thinking about the prochemicals that you're using. Any solvents, you want to make sure that those don't get into your system because they'll kill the bacteria that make your system infected. Uh I would suggest too that you for all the chemicals that you have you have for OSHA purposes and for anybody else um the manufacturers's uh specification sheet or data sheet for everything you have and keep it in a binder and have it by your side because your type of business is something that could be

and we get it in We do have a product sheet for like all our paint cuz we our customers ask us, you know, a lot of times they require those as well. We have an IM office just down the road. That's Indiana Department of Environmental Management. So, just in case somebody creates questions or creates an issue, you have that available for your sake and for your uh safety sake. Um, you said you had a tank on site. How many gallons was it? 100 gallon. [Music] Well, you could get that number for staff. I'm just concerned about what's going in it. Um, yeah, steal coat.

What kind of spill protection do you have just in case the tank gets damaged? Can you catch that before it runs off? That's basically a spill protection basically tank. It has it. It does. It has an agitator in it. There's I think there's five different shut off valves that have to be open. I mean outside the tank the firm built

there. It's up on a Yeah, it's up on a It had to be on an elevated um slightly out like 6 in rise. Well, the concern is where if it's a you have a spill uh from the outlet or the tank cracks, god forbid, that uh you have something to contain it. Whether it's an earth and berm around the tank or a tank that the tank sits in, it's just uh some further protection for your wells and for your neighbor. It's going to travel fairly slowly, right? It's going to affect you first, but it has a potential for affecting others. Um,

and there are burns on both sides. Um, the the excess dirt that we took from when we were before we put down the uh the rock, we just add it up again to try and just add a little bit of privacy and and to cover um to make it look aesthetically more pleasing, if you will. But that that would stop it from going left and right to our neighbors if it were to How old of the tank is it? It's brand new. Okay. There's a very good You might want to look into the specs on it. There's a very good chance it will be double wall contained. That's something that in a lot of industries that was a standard that got added quite a while ago. So that might it might already have that also that other added built-in protection level that's brand new from Seal Master.

Well, regardless, you're that's a good point. However, most places still require Mhm. uh some additional Yeah. something on the And that's true. So you can clean it up effectively. Just once it gets away, it get particularly during a rain event, you'll it'll wash away. And we want to protect the surrounding community. Do you have any signage on there? Uh like business signage? Yeah. I mean, we have a sign about gay big right on the fire door just for Well, I'm talking about a freestanding sign, but you have a a sign on the building itself for your business. You can't see it from

Well, that's not the point. The point is it's up to the uh department to enforce certain signage and size. So, I would suggest you just get a dimension and some pictures of that if you even need the sign. Do we need a sign? Do we not need a sign? No. If if people can't see it from the road Yeah. We don't have customers coming. It's not We're not trying to draw customers to our to our site. Well, we're just trying to be consistent with Sure. the requirements where everybody is. And then u I got to ask, do you have a asphalt drive back to the Yeah, our our asphalt goes all the way to our barn. Um Okay. And to the side of it, and then behind it is the rock.

So your guys going back and forth are creating dust that affects the producer. Okay. Anything else? Nope. Martin. Um, do you clean any of your equipment at your residence? So, I'm thinking about the uh crack sealing machines and things like that. Do you use MEK or anything like that to clean everything out? No, the seal coat machine that's clean flush out with water. Um, what we do is one, this stuff's very expensive anyway. So, when I'm flushing it out, I'm flushing it back into the tank and then cleaning out the rest of just residual water. There's a little bit of, you know, the black color that'll come out, but I'm not trying to waste that stuff like, you know, that that's kind of our money maker. Yeah. Cleaning pad where you do that though, I guess, leaving where you go into

You have a cleaning pad where you do that that if things drop on the ground, you can collect it.

It's just it's in the rocks. I mean, it comes from the ground. Um, it's an it's it's colar based, waterbased uh seal coat. [Music] always I'm still recommending that you have something that contains any of that material because that fugitive material can roll off and one of the uh principles of septic systems is that the pores are open and if that runs off toward your septic it could cause problems with the soil paracity for the uh striping machine. Do you use chemical solvents for that?

Uh it's just acetone based. Um again, similar it's we're trying to uh try to save the paint as much as possible. So we use a minimal amount to flush it back into the paint buckets to save that paint and then clear them up. And then you know there's a little bit of uh acetone left within the machines just keep it from uh gunking up. Yeah. But again, not trying to waste it, spill it. This everything that we're using is very expensive. So, we're trying to put it on the, you know, on our customers uh properties and not on ours, right? That makes sense. And yeah, just where you're doing that, when it's happening, um just making sure that if something does happen to that, a hose break like that happens while you're cleaning.

You're on somewhere that you can collect whatever is falling. So, I I I probably want to see it on the concrete pad with a trench stream or something to catch whatever is falling into it. Yeah. anything I'm I'm either cleaning out my paint machine within the trailer contain the mess or if I'm in my shop I'm using still mats uh pick pads often times called um I'm I'm a neat preo I'm not trying to mess up the shop either our kitchen's at barn for we try to make sure it's in the barn yeah you scrape it so that you can get [Music] we just redid our driveway actually we're going to be putting pickle ball and basketball back on that.

Anything else? No. Rich, do you have anything you want to add? Yeah, I guess having having served on the BCA in my past uh life, I guess, um we had cases come before us like this and one of the questions that I would always ask because there's nothing for certain in the voting. Do you have a contingency plan? If this doesn't, you know, if this doesn't pass the VCA, you don't get a use variance. Do you have a only the only thing that we can do is obviously get a get a shot, you know. Um, and we financially are only a year or two business, so that would be crippling to us, but I mean that's that's that's the backup plan. Well, think about that because I I'm I'm guessing that question will be posed to you.

Yep. Like we said, this is advertised by the the franchise. It's truck and trailer business. We didn't ever think that this was anything that we would require this experience, which is why we didn't seek it. Um it's just like anyone else that has a you know a work truck at their house. That's all we thought about. So no I I understand what we know now. We wish you know we would thought about that but no we don't we don't there's no other plan other than getting a building which that would be pretty financially devastating. Well, I understand your desire and and that and I' I've promoted, you know, that I think it's it's part of, you know, being America that you can do, you know, what you're doing, but you should come up with a firm, you know, plan so that Yep.

you know, things don't come crashing down. Anything else, Rich? Well, I would just add to Rich, you're right. And if you become very very successful, we got to launch the buying and its impact on these surrounding communities. So there again, a business plan would really be a good thing for you to have in mind. Okay. A lot of hope that you really really succeed. That's right. We hope so. Right. And a lot of the other um franchises in year three, four, five of operation end up obviously outgrowing their homebased businesses, which would be the goal, but we're just not there yet. But I think if you're going to have any chance of being successful, you ought to have some neighbors that are supportive of you there

the night of the meeting because the naysayers, you know, they over hour. Yeah. Our neighbors have asked us to do work for them, so we're surprised that this has happened, but Well, I don't know. Yeah. Could have been a passer by or something. I I mean, I drove out and looked at your place before the meeting, and you're like out in the middle of nowhere, too. So, your neighbor is like a but I know you got some houses there, but your neighbors are also half mile away. We spoke our neighbor with the large, you know, the large brick house. We spoke with them. They're very supportive. And actually, the um the woman who owns the 10 acres next to us that's that's still vacant. I talked to her yesterday and she was very

You got a very well-kept property. Looks very neat and tidy. So, honestly, we just didn't think about it. We're just trying to trying to do something. All right. That's what we're here for. Help you out. Rich, do you have anything else you want to do? Susan, you have anything? No.

Okay. Can I can I make a um a couple ads? I want to um tack on a couple things here to help you all out. The um the double ball, like like uh Kevin was saying, the double wall isn't a a get out of jail free card or anything else. What I would probably recommend to help to to help you out in this is uh the county recently adopted things in um related to I believe they actually came down from the state. It's requirements if you wanted to build a gas station. Um so if you have a fueling operation, if you have something like that, they there are um you know recommended measures of what would in the event that something does break. Again, the double wall that's a feather in your cap. If if you have that that's a feather in your cat. But what will help you is while you're not trying to waste the product that is something that if people are against what you're doing that could be that's a very legitimate concern that somebody could have is that well hey I just spilled a little bit but I just spilled a little bit every week for the next 10 years or you know whatever the case may be and hey my wells are next to. I would recommend looking at the requirements for fueling operations. Um, and these are the things that we look at for um, you know, say gas stations. So, of course, they have their internal things that like, hey, this is what we do to have the gas not come out. But in the event that a customer spills gasoline or there's a there's a list of things that can show, hey, like Mark was saying, hey, it'll it'll land on this concrete pad. It'll go down here. Maybe there's a drain. Maybe it's some type of capture system for it. You're going to want to be able to show a very clear, you know, this is our plan for when something goes wrong. this is what's going to prevent even if I just spill a little bit, this is what keeps it, you know, harming somebody else. So, I would recommend looking at that to maybe get some ideas of some things that you could do um so that you don't have that type of exposure for your neighborhood or for your neighbors when something is dropped. Um but yeah, I just want don't don't just rely on the fact that it's

double wall, but again, that's just another feather in your cap that you can say, "Look, it's double wall and we have this." Anything else to say? That's all. Anybody else?

All right. Again, this is a formal review. This is just getting your prep for you here before the board of zoning appeals. Kind of like to review some things that I wrote down. Um, please meet with Dan Boyd down at the health department. You guys can review options and whatever because I'm sure the CCA is going to come with those questions. So, you just want to prepare for the questions you might ask, be asked. signage. My advice is if you're not needing a sign, just don't have any signs on the property. Otherwise, it's the signage permit things that go along with that. I think one of the bigger things that I think you have to be really prepared for is the capture of any spills, leakage from cleaning, or just normal wear and tear. That's for the storage tank and sealer, plus the cleaning of the equipment, both the ceiling and the paint equipment. You know, I know you're trying to preserve the stuff that things happen. And if over time, it doesn't sound like much, but pennies add up the dollars more time to do it. So, just have a plan for that. I agree with my colleagues up here that that's something you should be addressing with the BCA of. And then Rich brought up the plan B. So, we wish you luck going into that. And I think if you're better prepared for the BCA, your chances of success are much greater. So, but there's always a plan B. So, if you have any questions for us, I don't think so.

We appreciate you coming in and wish you much success with your Thank you. Appreciate it. Thank you. You're welcome. Good luck with the BTA. Thanks. [Music] All right, we'll go backwards and we'll do uh case DW-2025-23. [Music] Katherine A. Brandon Living Trust, Garrett Todd Le. [Music] You don't look like Todd. I know. Hey, Charlie. Your name, address, and tell us what you're here for. Uh, my name is Charlie Ray. Um, I have the address.

Yeah. Our office is 1498 court. Justin Street. Um, speak up a little louder. I'm filling in for Todd. Uh, Todd Le had another appointment. Um, this is the Brandon subdivision. It started out as a U administrative subdivision and then we were asked to change it to a standard subdivision. So, that's what we did. Todd has been working with Susan at uh planning to get all of the uh variances we would need to do that because this is a 53 acre parcel that we only have five lots. So each lot is greater than 10 acres and um in fact one of 11 acres. To clarify though, there was some subdivision that went on beforehand. There was subdivision that occurred before this as well. Didn't one of the grandsons get allotted in the south?

Um, I'm not sure. Not sure.

We didn't It's now a subdivision now, though. Um, and uh, let's see. I think we've already been reviewed by storm water and uh I guess we need to know if we can continue on to [Music] um before we get started the panel just a few things. engineering looks like they gave a care to conform review and as far as planning goes planning had a list of uh required standards that must mean that's why you're going to the BCA and before we get started Susan maybe you can summarize what it is in a loud voice so the staff knows

so occasionally we have subdivisions that have been subdivided too many times or for one reason or another cannot go through as a minor this one for a couple of different reasons. One is the number of bathrooms and twos. Uh the number of times it was subdivided or parcelled out prior to this current subdivision that's being done. Uh because of that, it needed to be a major subdivision. Uh top lead to do this originally applied back, I believe in 23 or 24 before I worked here. Um I inherited this project. I did the review. I um created the list of items where the subdivision didn't meet the current UDO requirements for a major subdivision um for one reason or another. And at that point, I have worked with Todd Lee to develop um a application for a design waiver that will then appear to land commission following this meeting. So in essence, under normal circumstances, maybe it's not administrative, but it could have been a minor with less criteria, but because it's been subdivided in other circumstances, it forces it up to the major.

It's both that and the fact that there are five lots. Correct. So you can't do a five minor. Correct. Minor subdivisions are kept at four. And for clarity, I think the parent parcel had a subdivision on it prior to this, not this particular land where you're doing the the major subdivision today. That's by definition of our code, right? And and I think we all understood that that at the time the people that were here told us to go through the administrative process. Okay?

So, we did what we were told and I have no problem changing. I mean, Mike came to me and said, "Hey, we have to go through this and hey, that's the way it goes." I just want to be clear, you know, where we're starting. I understand. And that's why Sue went. We were doing what we were told to do. Okay. So, so with that, we'll go through the informal review. David,

uh, yes, this uh job was initially sent to our office in April of 24. Um we had sent out conformance letters um May 13th, 2025. There was a conformance letter that added additional an additional point uh March 20th, 2025 and appears to conform letter was issued um on the engineering side of the review. Um the I won't call them the outstanding comments, but the comments we have that I'd like to bring up today. Uh we we initially had a note uh that they would need to get approval from the storm water advisory board and storm water management board. I believe both of those already took place. Is that correct? I believe so. Um note that the county driveway permits would be required. I gave you the point of contact for that. And um the other comment I had was related to um the planning approvals that were just discussed. The one that could potentially impact the engineering side is that the job as shown now has an individual driveway going to each home. In the event that um that waiver is not approved and there has to be two shared driveways, that would add an extra step for um for uh the secondary approval. So, because then the job would then have common infrastructure serving multiple lots. But if it had if they're each able to have their own driveway, that wouldn't be right. Those lots are huge. So,

yes. Okay, I understand. Yeah. And and I have no I have no voter say in that matter. That's just that is simply a matter of if it turns out that they need to have two shared driveways that split off, that would change um one of the steps of my review before they have secondary approval. Okay. But um I'm not that's not me saying I'm against them having four independent driveways going to those particular lots um that have up to that road or an interior roadway. Right. Because that is a right possibility as well.

Right. [Music] If it stands as it as it if it stands as it's currently shown in the last sent to our office I would have no comments related to your driveways. Anything else? No sir. Dan. So just this corner lot. So there's A through E. There's this corner lot which is Yeah. That's separate from Yeah, it's separate. Okay. That's Robert Brandon's lot. Right. Right. That because I had a soil report for that as well and I or a write up for that as well. This is not included.

That's not included. Okay. house has that and these were these were just area 1 2 3 4 and five right so um yeah so we've done on sites on all the lots u it appears uh from our write ups that they will all support septic systems um my one concern is with lot E given where those soil borings are if they're going to put the house there's the pipeline and generally going through a pipeline to run a delivery line for receptic field tends to get very complicated. So, um, and this is something that can be done at the when they go to build on the lot. It's not something that has, but they might have to get additional borings maybe north of that pipeline to make it easier to get a field cuz if they're going to go with where the borings are now, um, they're going to have to get permission and we're going to need documentation of that to run through that pipeline. um and they might not grant permission to run a delivery line through that pipeline to get to where that field can go. So, um I just wanted to make that make that point, but otherwise um I don't have any further comments or concerns.

Thank you, Dan. Kevin, you know, one of the issues with driveways, why we have shared driveways is to make sure there's separation Kevin each other. Well, in the long run, too. I guess somehow are we going to guarantee the separation of the driveways? How how we deal with that? I think that's something that uh we're in the formal design waiver that uh that's what we're going to have to have a commitment that these driveways will not be I'm not sure what the code calls for 220 or Susan do you

can I clarify for a second here they're not asking for a waiver to allow for more than two driveways this is not a minor subdivision that's only a requirement for minor subdivisions because they're required to do a major subdivision is it's permitted by by the code for each lot to have its own driveway, right? They do need to maintain the driveway distance. I believe it's 100 ft. Pardon? 100 ft. 150 ft. 150. Either way, I I believe with the size of these laws would not be a problem and that is something that would be addressed when they apply for a driveway permit. Correct.

Correct. Yeah, we would be reviewing that at the time of driveway permit. Okay. But we need to make sure everybody's aware of it. And that's usually why this idea comes in month two. Let's maintain the separation so it doesn't conflict with the traffic on one,000 north. But I think that's something I like Susan's saying. We take care of that during the driveway permitting process. Right.

And the pipeline, you've had the pipeline company out to mark that, I assume. Right. So, that's tied down pretty well. And uh trying to make sure our homeowners are aware of the wetland areas too, right? And that was my next thing. Are you using the wetlands for uh storage? 10 acre parcels, whatever water would run to it, it runs to it. Just about all of it.

Because if you put in 2,000 square foot house, piece of property that's 10 plus acres, you're running 05 an acre. So, and I was thinking more in terms, okay, you have a pipeline come across the wetlands are on the south side. You're trying to drain stuff back through here. understand the homeowners and the developer need to be aware of the limitations they have as far as really sad trying to sad thing is not this sub not necessarily Porter County we have had to in put in detention areas which completely dried up wetland surrounding it what is the focus

exactly so in this particular case it's just ground travel and I just brought this up Because you've got this apartment, the utility crossing diagonally across wetland on the south side, all your structure and development on the north side. We need to make sure people understand that they just can't put a pipe in, do midnight connections, that kind of thing that I think you can avoid that. that uh and just always get aware or want people to be aware of their responsibilities around the pipeline. Okay. Cuz they were first.

Anything else? Nope. Mark. Um I guess I'm wondering about the culvert sizing on looks like it shows 12in culverts on the driveways. Is that correct? Yes. Okay. um just how that how that was figured since this is a major subdivision generally there's you know calculations for your water your your source runoff that'd be great just just you know what's going through those pipes I'd like to take a look at the at the at the time but that's down the road this is just okay something that pops up in my head you want those at the time of uh you want those before approved they can be at the driveway permit application

okay I mean that that's all I would want to Um yeah, does the secondary usually call out driveway culprit sizes? I mean, if it does, you can include it at that time. Okay. Also typically review during our review as well. Yeah, we understand we're talking about things that are necessarily to do with the waiver. I think the waiverss make sense for what this development is just for the record. So that's that's good. I'm doing so. Okay. Sure. to blame me everything. But please pay attention because you still have another step after this.

Yeah, this is just getting them Yeah, you're right. This is just getting the next step so they can get writing down everything. Yeah. And the comment I was making about if it had to be shared or access road. Again, that's that's not me saying I'm I'm pushing for that. That's just to say that to be consistent that would be that would be something that I would need to look at in my role if the design went from as is currently shown to if something had to change with that. Okay. So I echo that sentiment. Thanks. Martin, anything? That's all I have.

Rich, do you have anything to add? Yeah, the only thing and this probably doesn't impact um this first stage and probably more to the secondary flat and and it comes from research that I did for um for Martin on that parcel that's an exception and and where the road turns. This parcel is kind of unique because it sets right up against the uh Indiana toll road. Um, if you go back to the original plans for the toll road, what's your frontage or the majority for four for your lots is on county road a thousand north,

right? when it appears uh that the toll road bought to the same uh section line that your parcel comes up to and and I don't know where that specifically is in the existing pavement that's there now, the existing stone or whether it's chip and seal or whatever. Um, I did an inspection out there and there does to there does appear to be north of the center line of that 1100 some remnances of two different types of fencing that at least in my visual guesstimation appears to be like 20 ft north. Some of it is steel post and brace post and um I don't want to say a chain link fence um but some fencing and then other ones are like your tost and the rectangular you know grid fence. So it just I'm just throwing this out there to that.

So so what you're saying is that it appears that road is actually totally on this property. Well, it I don't know that cuz I I don't I don't know if what's shown on there is is detailed enough, but the all I'm telling you is there is a fence that appears to be 15 to 20 ft back in the brush. And when I went out there, some of the posts had ribbon on them. So, I'm guessing that your survey crew pro, you know, you probably have that information. Probably do. I can get that for you. I or I can get it on.

Yeah. you just showed it so that it it appears to me obviously that the the state um left right away for that you know on their side of that section line like you guys have to leave or add some too. So that's just a point of information

and I think you're exactly right. I think their rightway might be the north of what you might perceive as our rightway, but you might want to know what that land is. And we will definitely want to know where the rideway of the toll road is compared with our road here. I think you've got more than enough room. I can The question is what what all you know what's the responsibility of the county in the end? Yeah, I think you would want to know where your row is. Troy, I can share all that documentation with Troy if you need. Sure. Yeah. Because I understand because you, you know, you obviously want to be able to have some kind of an easement for your road.

Yeah. And uh I know that a lot of those were granted early on. And I think it's all there, but it's the question is how much north of the pavement, right, on on 1,00 is the toll road itself. Yeah. that can if the existing fence because that's what everybody's going to think is that fence is the rightway fence. You know, if that can be shown or noted, you know, in in several spots, you know, I'll have Troy get in touch with you. Yeah, I'd be happy to to share with them what we have. And you know, I'll make a note. Is that an overlap or a gap? Yeah. And it was again the road didn't was there when the tow road was built back in the 50s. So, I mean, it's not like this all popped up,

right? you know, just since then. So, okay. Thanks, Rich. Good point. Susan, anything to add? No. Anybody else want to add one more thing? You have any questions for us? You have any questions? Any kind of review? Uh, this is informal review. You got to go to the UPCA or planning commission. They're going to realign waivers. the design way to explain this. Anyway, uh we need to verify approval that you got from the storm water management board. Sounds like you did, but I don't have anything in front of me that says so.

I think Todd took care of that. Todd took care of that. I'll check your business. Then you got other permits to do. I just mentioned the driveway permit. We talked about that. Ling may require additional shore boring receptive in the future depending on where the house is placed. This is complicated by the split by the pipeline, right? You're going to provide storm water calcs at some time for the driveway cover is reviewed by the county highway indicator. And then lastly, Richard's point, correct me if I'm wrong, we're asking for a clarification of the location or the adjacency for the date dedication as it relates to the toll road right away limits. You know, just so we show it on there, then everybody in the future is going to know. Okay. You know, we can do that.

Did I miss anything, Jim? And Ideally, that should have been part of your survey. Yeah, that that's recorded that affect. [Music] Well, good luck. [Music] Next. Thank you. Last case on the doctr and Sharon Fitzgerald care of attorney Scott Eron. Yianni long a long either mispronounced my name.

Long a long 27 southwest operation of Morgan Township zoned R1 low density single family residential requested in formal review for the operation of a panel. So gentlemen, if you could introduce yourself, your address and state your case today.

Absolutely. Uh my name is Scott Bainy. My office at address is 3 Lincoln Way Sweet 2011 here. Um and with me is James Fitzgerald, the property owner. And I'm 27 South 100 West Mount, Indiana. And uh thank you for entertaining us. And uh I know we're going to get educated here, so we're going to listen. I'll be taking notes. Um James and Sharon uh purchased the property in 2017. Uh 2000 actually 2019 as well. 19. Okay.

They purchased an existing uh facility for the training of of dogs. Um they didn't know at that time similar to the folks that appeared at the first hearing that that they needed to go through this process. They are aware now. They're in a vulnerable, you know, it is what it is. They're in a vulnerable position. They probably don't have a plan B, but they also understand that that's not your problem. That's their problem. But we're here to hopefully uh address some issues. Um they are seeking a use variance to operate what is framed in the UDO as a kennel commercial. Um which is a defined term. um in their circumstance they don't I'm not going to say they do operate a kennel commercial because it fits within the definition. Uh what they don't do though is that they don't breed uh dogs. Um they don't have, you know, it's not a daycare extended care type of facility. Um, they do have typically 8 to 10 dogs, 8 to 10 dogs for residency that are in for training, but I don't do boarding. So, I don't have like 25 dogs on my property at a time. So, I have a couple of clients that come in for privates, one car at a time, that come I have two or three a day. Somebody comes in for an evaluation and somebody comes for a private. But the dogs that are there for residency training, we take them off property out in the community every day. So, you may have seen my van around. I'm always at the farmers market. I'm I'm downtown at Home Depot and Hobby Lobby and I'm all around town. Um, Fairgrounds Park, so we're always taking dogs out

into the community. Um, so we do keep roughly 8 to 10 dogs on property from time to time. Sometimes it's only six dogs and then we'll have um a dog come in for what we call a day train, but they come in in the morning and then go home in the afternoon. So what is typically the average stay dogs?

So if they're if they're in for residency, they're they're there for a month. So they're they're with me. they live with me. Um, and so it was the same when I bought the facility. I was leasing it first. So the owners had a dog training company and they also bred Malininoa dogs. Um, the owner was a police officer and so they had this facility there. My wife and I lost a company that we had for 28 years due to co and so I needed to find something else to make a living. So I started I've always been a dog trainer. So we I talked to my friends. He said you could lease my my property and do your dog training here. So we did for several years. So they started this in 2016 and then we started my business 2019 and then they he retired and moved to Florida and then sold me the property. So that's how this all came about and we just figured because they said that we had an egg exemption because of the county for taxes. We thought that it was the same as the city which it wasn't. So that's how we got this whole all the wax mixed up. So and it has um uh this use has as James mentioned has existed for quite some time in that area. The neighbors are familiar. Um I submitted a supporting letter uh and on page five um James secured you know consent uh from each of his neighbors um indicating they don't have any objection and in fact that he's a good neighbor. um we hope that we'll actually get those folks out to the BDA meeting, but at the very

least we do have a a signed letter um you know endorsing the continued use of of James facility. Um in the sporting letter there's there's a lot in there. We we're going to have another step. Um our first step is to see if they use variance. Um, if that's granted and uh, Miss Morasco advised that she didn't think it was best to go with both petitions at this first hearing, but if the use variance is granted, then we would need to come back for a developmental variance because we are not within the limits of the next property. But we'll be addressing a lot of the same issues. When I put together my letter, I comprehended that we would be addressing both. So I address the statutory factors for the use variance and the developmental variance and some of the uh factors but in there I don't want to get too detailed for for you but he does have um he's going to get some specific questions so I don't want to do too much but I will say he has um robust policies when it comes to what he does to limit the noise that will escape uh so that he's not a nuisance to his neighbors And also it's not a good uh environment for him training his dogs. I got to know James because I I sent my dog there for the residency and uh he was tremendous. Um he also has a robust policy and he'll talk to you about what he does to control manage the dog waste, how he keeps the dogs secure on the property with his fencing system that goes below the ground. Um so that you know there's no chance of escape. Uh his property is about nine acres of little over the whole property and he uses that entire property including the kind of the fields to run behind. Uh and I did have a uh an excerpt of the zoning map.

You know, he he is right on his neighbors are he is in the residentially designated area. Uh but his larger neighbors in the area, they're all agricultural center. So I don't want to continue on too long. You guys been here a long time today and I'm sure you have questions for us. No, appreciate this very thorough presentation both written and oral. Appreciate that. Thank you. And we appreciate you acknowledging you got other steps along the way. This is just the first step. So Susan, would you like to kick this one off? I know Christy reviewed it for the variance. Is there anything you add before we go to other staff comments? Um, I don't have anything to add this time.

Very good. All right, Dave. Well, you answered a lot of um what kind of something probably took notes from the fin question that the first folks got here. So, this is uh this is an operation that's already in existence. Yes. And you're not asking for any change. Everything that you're seeking to do is something that you've already been doing. That's correct. Um was any um heartskeeping or impervious area added in support of um of your operation? It sounds like the dogs run in the back of the property. So, yeah. So, I have nothing that would impact storm water, I should say. No, no, nothing like that. And you have um you have things in place for waste management, you said?

Yeah. So, all the all the waste is picked up and then it's contained in bucket and then we put an enzyme that eats the poop and then that is disposed of in the trash week. So there's no there's no waste there um that is kept on site. There's no like pits or any of that kind of thing. It's all disposed of. So it doesn't go in the septic system or any of that. Um when we do wash down the kennels, everything that we use is hypoallergenic and it is an enzyme that is used and has no chemical base to it. So it it eliminates the urine and eliminates any feces that would be there um that would be remnants of what is in the county. So there but we try to make sure that everything is clean and bofriendly because we do have two wells there. Um and so you know we want to make sure that nothing gets into the groundwater at all that you know would be harmful in any way.

Okay. And the um again so so you said you letters of support already from um some of the adjoining neighbors and any letter of support that they've written in the past would there's again there's nothing related to your application that would impact that where you don't have a situation where right now dogs are there until 6:00 p.m. And now they'll be there overnight. Like all operations are remaining as they were. That would be in support of again whatever letter they wrote their support of. Nothing that you're applying for changes. Nothing's changing. Okay. So I'm just I'm just trying to continue doing the business that I'm currently doing. Okay.

So I'm not looking to like add a boarding kennel or that type of thing. I'm just looking to maintain what I've been doing for since I purchased the property. 19. Correct. We bought it since 2019 is when I purchased the property. 20. How far is the history of the show? Is it? 2016 is when he started. He he he bought it from somebody that was also had dogs, but then he started breeding his dogs and then trained dogs as well. Okay. So, he did both of them. Yeah.

Similar to the first case that we discussed today, Mr. Jbo, what um basically what why are we here today? How why is it this is coming before us now after so many years of operation? Was this a complaint that came in or I don't believe it was a complaint. Um I believe the applicant just came to us, right, to make sure everything was proper, legal. Okay. Right. Right.

Yeah, we he's he's looked at selling the property. He's looked at financing a number of things. he came to see me regarding those matters and you know one of the first things I I do is zoning complaint work um and so I mentioned it and that's how it got flying so not a complaint okay thank you no further question

at this time he's here just for the informal review for the use variance of the BVA at this time he's not required to do a development plan because he's not adding anything to the property okay thank you anything else Dan So when you have these dogs um when you bathe them and everything is doing that outside are you doing that? So we have a we do have one wash tub but they don't really get bathed. I don't like do baths and I don't do grooming. So um if a dog happens to have an issue that I have to bathe a dog which is rare. Um we do have a wash tub that does go into my set.

It goes into the Okay. Um, just caution that sometimes dog fur can cause issues. Well, they're all cracked. So, the the bathing tub is a it has a it has a catch the hair and all of that stuff. Oh, that's that's good. Um, yeah, cuz I I've seen issues in the past with where they wash dogs and it's caused the system. um the hair like the fine hair and stuff could cause issues.

Yeah, I was trying to find information on the septic and I I might have to do a little bit more research and kind of go back on this and see if we have anything but it's kind of similar to the first case we have. Um this a nonresidential, [Music] you know, operation on this property. And so, you know, generally, you have to make sure that that septic is sufficiently sized for what you're doing on the property. So, kind of similarly with the uh the first case we had, um I would recommend coming down and seeing me down in the health department. When you sit down in my office, I can kind of ask you some more questions, kind of try to do a little more research and look things up and see where we need to go from there.

Okay. um you know just kind of move forward with that because I just want to make sure that um you know everything's in order there. Do you have employees? There's so two two of us live on the property and then we have two people that come in each day. There's four people total. All right. Yeah, cuz um that comes in I mean it sounds like it's minimal, but again that's not really my decision. It's you know it's it's through the state who sizes that. But um yeah, I just like to have you come down and meet with me. We can kind of go through some things and um maybe before you go for your next meeting and everything. So Okay. Sure. All right. Anything else?

Kevin, I'll start with um Martin had to leave for a bridge emergency. Okay. So, uh he had a question about how many uh cars were coming in and out of your driveway on a daily basis. Um two to three.

Two to three. I guess the question was uh there are many more than that. They have to talk about multif family where they have a wider driveway. That'd be 18 ft to 30 uh or at least 30 ft past the right way. Yeah, they I mean typically like we'll have you know one person come in, drop their dog off and then they leave and then same in the afternoon they'd come in and pick it up but then they're they're off. Yep. So, my suggestion is you might go ahead widen that driveway just for your own family to get in and out and uh that way it's just for that first uh probably 50 ft past the roadway,

okay, to have 18 foot wide drive so you can pass one another and you're not backing up traffic on glass. Okay. Or you're causing an endangerment to people coming in. Um I would just suggest you go ahead and do that anyway for the long term. It's it's a good investment. Uh I like what you're doing with the waste management. That's a big thing. Whenever we have somebody use in the industry with whether it's horses, dogs,

sure, etc. Uh you said you're you've got eight dogs that you're not technically 40, but you're training uh as many as eight dogs for a month. Yes. The dogs I assume stay with you. They stay with me. Yes. They're on property. Yes. You're not a boarding facility, but you are boarding. Yes. Dogs. Yeah. Cuz they're in for training. So historically, our biggest issue has been the noise from dogs. Yeah. One dog barks, the rest of them do. Sure. I got to ask your training. Is that to quiet the dogs down as well or

It's that's part of it. Part of it is is that one we've I've hired because I don't like dogs barking. So I've hired as one person that that's their job is to maintain dogs. So there's not multiple dogs out. So a dog will go out, they go for a walk, they go to the bathroom, they go back inside. So we don't have dogs just out loose in runs. So if there's we've done as much as we can to mitigate any kind of noise that would interrupt my neighbors um because you know Steve is on one side, Joe's on another. So I got two that are close to me. So we make sure that dogs are let out especially in first thing in the morning one at a time and then throughout the day they're rotated taken for walks and that's this one person's job is to manage the dogs to make sure that the

four hours a day or is there day out? He's he's there normally every day at 7 and goes home at 5. Okay. Um, and then my wife and I do the other in the evening and then I let out dogs myself first thing in the morning. So, yeah. And understand that our historically we've had issues with animals y where the dogs start barking or the neighborhood dog will get the rest of the dog barking and we've had people try a lot of insulation in their buildings and all sorts of other practices. Sure. But when you're boarding dogs, you don't have that opportunity to train or

Yeah. They're always out and about. So, I have uh a training center on one side. So, we'll take dogs in and do training there. And then I take them put them in my van. And then we go out into the community and train throughout the day. So, and then they take individually for walks. We have a trail that goes around the 10 acres. And so, we do that as well. How many employees do you have? So there's four on site at one time. Does that include your family or? Yes, there's my wife and myself and then we have two additional staff members. And I think that's something you want to make clear to these is how many other people how many people are going to come and park their cars. Sure.

And whether that has impact on the community. Do you have any signage out there? We have one sign that's 24 by 36 that's just right in front of the house. Okay. And it's back off the road, but it is in front of the house. The chances are that was never uh permitted by the the county. Yeah. But my my sense would be that it wasn't because but they've had it there since the beginning. Regardless, we still have to have go through the process because although we all like to be the exception, we don't want to make this the exception. I get it.

And and for your longterm health, I think that'd be a good thing to get it resolved, but Okay. That was all I had. Okay. Thank you, Kevin. Rich, anything? No, I just having dogs in my life. This is just a training facility, not a boarding facility. That is correct. Mr. I just wanted to ask. That's why I had to listen carefully. I had as two and that's a lot for sure. City law. Yep. Susan, anything to add? No.

Okay. Well, appreciate the effort that went into the presentation. As I said, um BCA meeting is 8:20. So, I'm going to tell you and my 18 months here, they're going to ask about traffic and parking. The signage is going to come up, septic and water. You're going to work with Dan, but make sure use that time wise before the 20th. So, you got answers. Waste manager that you address. They're going to ask about that. Okay. And the noise. So, it's they'll ask other questions of course, but in my experience here in this 18 months, those seem to be the top question getter. So, okay. Seems like you got a lot of stuff here already addressed each and every one of them.

Staff pointed out. Get those letters together, your neighbors as many as you can in support of you. Well, he's already got that. Well, I I would refresh it because you're coming back from a meeting and assuring everybody you're not changing things. So, the meeting is to 8:20 at 5:30 here in the same chamber. Okay. Again, meet with Dan. Okay. Do what you guys got to do. Cuz that was a concern I got just like the other case. She's got two separate facilities, multiple septic systems. We didn't ask that question. Yeah, the other one um one system. So, we trust you'll work that all out. So, we wish you much luck. Thank you very much. Thanks for coming in. I appreciate your time. If you have any questions, please get in touch with us.

Okay. Thank you. Very good. Anybody else has anything to say? We have a guest. You want to introduce yourself to our esteemed panel? I'm the uh new administrator for the health department. Wanted to sit in and see how it was Dan. Yep. So, I'm glad you could make it. Welcome aboard. Thank you. Look forward to working with you. Yeah, we will miss Carrie, but right she's got a little different looking than I am. Takes a bigger uniform for you. Right. Right.