Board of Elections & Registration - Regular Meeting

Wait a minute, we also have, let me see what you got. we have this list on the delinquent delinquent delinquent yes that's this list here Did you get any waivers?

Jessica didn't give me any. You didn't bring any waivers with you, right?

Yes.

Oh, Tara has them. Monica. Right.

Because it's not that much.

Beverly Shores and Jack. Oh, great.

That's the only ones. Because the other ones weren't that much. Oh, yeah, they called me. Perfect. That takes care of This one.

Thank you. All right, roll call.

President Rausch?

Here.

Vice President Tim?

Here.

Member Coulter?

Here.

Member Chidester?

Here.

And Proxy Hartwig for Secretary Bailey.

Thank you. Clerk's report.

Clerk Bailey sends her apologies for not being able to be here today, but I'll put it in for her. Tara and Clerk Bailey have officially graduated from seats.

Yay.

It was a nice, Jessica said it was a nice program with Secretary of State handed out the certificate. The keynote speaker was the chairman from the Election Assistance Commission. They both presented their projects. They look forward to employing them in the office very, very soon. Clerk's Conference, we were there two weeks ago in Indianapolis. They had great information, including some information on elections and SVRS legislation. Most of it is just verbiage updates. And Jessica said when she's back, she'll review more in the July meeting. And that's all she had for me for that.

Okay, the directors or director.

Yeah, we are busy in the office. We just wrapped up school board petitions. And we're obviously getting ready to do some staffing for poll workers. We're preparing for a fair, which is in July. Our staff will be out there. We got to meet with IT. That was exciting to talk about. and then I'm personally excited to travel more. We moved that to Holbrook, so kind of always looking for tips and tips. Lots of fun stuff.

Busy, busy, busy year.

Very excited to see you this year.

All right, thank you. Members of the board should have received electronic copies previous meetings minutes. Without change, I'll accept the motion to approve. Do we have a second?

Second.

All in favor?

Aye.

Opposed? Thank you. Election 2026.

School board candidate petitions have closed. They're projected to be back to the 40 locations for the general election. That's all on track and still Tarot, correct? Yep. However, in the future, she did want to give the board a heads up that they're going to be losing Faith Lutheran Church. We'll still have them this year, but after this year, their board has voted to discontinue after the 2026 election.

And that's Faith Lutheran?

Faith Lutheran Church.

And that's a big one.

Yeah, it is. It is.

Have you got anybody else in mind in that general vicinity?

I don't think they've even started looking yet.

Need to find somebody, though.

They will. Yeah, this is all fairly new, so I'm sure Tara and Sunday will be all over it. But Jessica just wanted to give the boards a head up since we found out about it since the last meeting. But right now, other than what Tara had added, that's pretty much it. Things are just headed forward.

Okay. Item seven, approval of verbiage union township referendum.

I do have a copy. There's really nothing that's going to affect, apparently, the office, just the language that they're putting into their referendum. If the board wants to look at it, Clark Bailey did send a copy with me. And when welcome to, it's pages.

Does Clerk Bailey need a motion of acceptance? We don't have to sign that?

No.

No. Okay.

No. It's a language fair approval.

I think we received that electronically.

Well, so. Motion to approve.

We have a motion and a second. All in favor? Aye. Opposed? Thank you. all right campaign finance hearings i will read this into the record as we start this portion of the meeting we are here today to hear information concerning the delinquent or defective filing of annual reports by several people the hearing was set by the board at our prior meeting public notice of this meeting has been provided This matter is being recorded and I am requesting that the County Clerk please ensure that the audio recording of these proceedings are maintained as part of our record. The matters that have been set before us today involve Indiana Code IC 3-9-4-17. Section A requires that any person who fails to file with the County Election Board A report in the manner required under IC 3-9-5 is subject to a civil penalty. The purpose of these proceedings is to determine if such penalties need to be applied to those persons who have been asked to appear. Indiana Code provides that if the county election board determines that a person failed to file or amend the report or statements of organization by the deadline prescribed under this article, the board shall assess a civil penalty. The penalties range from $50 per day to a maximum of 1,000. The civil penalty under subsection may not exceed $1,000 plus investigative costs incurred and documented by the board. Ms. Conrad, can you please explain the notice of these proceedings that were provided to each candidate?

Sure. This month, we had two that we held over from last month, and that would be with Beverly Shores and with Justin Anderson. I believe Ms. Anderson is here. I had sent both of them. notice for being here in May, but I just, because of switching some things with my law firm affiliation, I didn't get the green cards, so we re-noticed them for this month. That notice has been sent. They have received that notice, and in fact, Ms. Anderson is here, and Beverly Shores has done a waiver, so we'll handle that in short order. You also have coming before you what we consider to be the delinquent defective on the pre-primary report. And we have three individuals for that concern. I had sent out notice of them. I had checked to see if they had received notice. And I was able to verify that they got the notice as of Monday of this week. And that would be. We have a waiver for one of them, and that would be Jack Tripple. The other two is Spencer Lemons and Benjamin Rosenberger. Okay. Sorry? Benjamin's here. Oh, Benjamin's here. Okay, great. So the one who's not here, and we did hear back from Spencer Lemons, and that will be a $10 fine. So I'll let you know. But everybody has received notes.

Okay, so we'll deal, I think, with Mr. Lemons last. Anderson, you want to start? Sure. You come up and take a seat right there. If you'll stand and raise your right hand, I'll swear you in, okay?

Here we go.

Do you swear or affirm under penalty of perjury that the evidence you are about to give will be the truth? the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. Please sit down, state your name for the record, and let us know what happened here.

Christine Anderson. I was submitting my form online, and when I was instructed to go to the Porter County website to be able to do that, it was giving an error message 404 where the servers weren't connecting. I did contact the county office that day explaining that I'm having this error message. I did screenshot my computer that showed that and did send it to the voter website. admin place the next day explaining that. I called, and I believe tech was not available to help at that point. Monday was, so then it was the weekend, and then Monday was a holiday. So Tuesday, once people came back into the office, I was able to work with the team and got it submitted that day.

What time did you start receiving those errands? What time were you going to file on that Friday?

I don't remember. I would have to probably look at it.

Plenty of time, though.

No, it was close to the deadline. So I certainly could understand that it was going to still be late, but certainly not four days late if the system would have worked.

Okay.

My understanding is that she's at the $1,000 fine limit in terms of how many days late. So that would have taken us into $50 a day up to $1,000. So, no?

No.

Five days. Five days. Okay. So her fine then is how much? $250. $250.

Okay.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for correcting me on that.

Okay. And is it true that we were having trouble? Do we know that?

Yeah. Yeah.

So where can I submit the documentation that shows your system had a 404?

Say that one more time.

How, where can I submit the evidence that I had captured that the system wasn't working and when I called and I, because I did email it to their office with the image. So I'm surprised to hear that they didn't have any recollection of this event happening. Additionally, they also said that I was receiving some emails regarding this, which I didn't. I've received every, interesting, I have received every email from the office except these particular ones saying that there was an issue. Additionally, like the voter system, once I was able to get in it, it doesn't even tell you that you have errors in the system. Your system allows you to submit a form that could be incorrect. So, if certain forms have only certain dates in there, in 2026, most forms are going to say you can't submit this. You're not within certain guidelines, which I didn't anticipate, but certainly, I understand our technology might not be the most advanced at this time, but certainly when it's system and that says accepted with a green check, that would imply that it's been accepted, not just collected and maybe approved. Accepted with a green check would mean that you're good to go. I mean, that's how my taxes work. It says that it will be, you know, accepted when it's all as well. So there is some confusion on my behalf of how this process works. but I will pull up the document of where I found it.

Did the office get an email with her screenshot of the server error and all of that?

Did anyone answer that email for you?

I'm not sure. I have to look.

Yeah. So you're saying you believe the error of the computer system cost you four additional days?

Correct.

Because you knew you were late, but you were filing on Friday.

Right, which then with the holiday, I mean, three of the days, I wasn't even approved in your system to submit online. So I couldn't do anything. The form online that I could have downloaded and the hard copy filled out, that was having the error message. So I wasn't approved in one of your systems. The other system wouldn't let me download the form. And when I contacted them, no one was able to help.

You said you did it over a holiday, but I'm seeing April 21st.

So it was, yeah. Isn't it due on the 17th? And wasn't it due on the 17th because April 20th was a holiday this year? Because normally it's due on April 20th, if I'm correct.

What holidays?

No, but we don't do it on a holiday. We try to give you guys 10 to 14 days to get your stuff in.

This is the pre-primary report, which I think is set by the state's calendar.

The time period is January 1st through April 10th. We give them seven to ten days to get that back to us. So seven days is what we did in 2017.

So was there a reason that no one could help me that day when I called in, or there's no record of your company having me call in?

Who did you speak with? Because there's very limited staff.

Yeah, okay. It feels like a hostile situation to just try to fill out the forms. Because my original form that I sent that is on your guys' form, tells me to send it to the state. That was first issue. Like, documents that we have given to me have addresses where I'm supposed to send them.

Do you have it there, right? Where does it tell her? No, I'm just, she's saying it's.

the form you have says file it with the state is it the same one that cindy has well there is so the the date that it's would be due would have been april the 17th which is which is a friday and that date is not set by the county that date is set by the state the state election office no i'm by the Secretary of State, isn't it? By the Secretary of State, not you guys, but the Secretary of State. Right. Yep, yep, yep. It was. But it's also the same day as people who are elected on, who are elected for state offices that have to, they have to file with the state, whereas anybody in the county has to file with you. My question, which I don't know if maybe she was trying to file with the wrong entity, because there's a filing, like if you were running for the Indiana General Assembly, you have a report due on the same day. Do you file with the Secretary of State, or is anybody who's a local candidate files with you guys? So...

Because she's a local candidate, as opposed to being, so she has a form, she has a screenshot of a form that says it's required to be filed with the state. That's what I'm trying to figure out if she was using the wrong paperwork, maybe?

Right. Can you, do you have your docs in there?

I, yes, I would, because I did end up having to forward it. So for the, for the CFA1 form that I was, the initial, like an issue that I had. It says that you don't, that we don't have it. And then I submitted it on the 13th and I was next up. So let's see. Yes, I mean, I could forward these to someone.

So you originally tried to send those on the 13th of April?

No. So the first one that I first said that I had done the wrong process is the candidate statement of organization and designation of principal, the CFA1 form. That was sent to an address that the Porter County office said that they never received.

You sent it downstate?

Because that's the address that's on that form. When you print off that form. We have that form there, Cindy.

I don't think I have her CFA-1.

Do you have any CFA-1 forms?

I can pull it up on this. Can you, Tara?

That would be great.

So this process that we do here, on a county level, the state does that too for anybody who runs for like, you know, for the state senate or, okay. And so they have a similar system as we have. So the question I think is whether she inadvertently filed with the state versus filing with quarterly. I think that's kind of the question here. Because we have the same deadlines too.

Yeah, but not necessarily the same forms.

I don't know. Yeah, it says campaignfinance.iec.in.gov. I have the CFH-1 form here and it doesn't have our address on it too.

Right, doesn't have your email address on it. You want to see what she's looking at? Yeah. Or look and see what she's looking at. Because she said she has a different CFA. If she has a different CFA1, I don't know.

That's the address that's on that form. Well, what address is on there? You said it wasn't yours, so what address is it?

Do you have the actual, like, where did you find that email address?

On the form. That was on your site.

No, I'm.

I could bring it from home possibly, but no. What address is on there?

or I'm kind of finding one.

Yeah. I mean, that CFA1 form from the second state site just is meant for local, like that's something you would file, like you needed to do like locally in our office. So there's not going to be like a state address on that. It's intended for like a local form. And it's not going to have specific quarter county information because that CFA1 form meant for all counties to be able to download and access it.

So just from what I heard you say, is that the form that is online is supported by the state, and the address most likely is not Porter County, but very most likely the Indiana one.

They don't give an address.

There's no address on there. I'm looking at it. This is at the Secretary of State's website, and there is no address on that.

There was online. How could you have a form that doesn't tell you where to submit it?

It's meant for local candidates to turn into their local.

No, right there. Filing Indiana. Campaign Finance, right there, for filing. It says, who wish to file electronically may contact this or email it to that address. It's right there.

Yeah, I mean, and maybe that's a language issue. Like, if you're looking for information to file, I don't think it's meant to direct you to file, if that makes sense. And they... Which is probably why it kicked back at her because they're not going to accept a CFA-1.

Like she's saying it wouldn't take it. because it won't.

I would love to see how anyone else would interpret this. I think even a lawyer may argue that if you, under item 16, committees filing with Indiana Election Division, you would send it to there. I mean, if an address is on a form, I mean, then you're implying that there is no instructions on where to file them.

I'm curious, what was the response to the email when you sent it attached to that? Did they respond?

No, the next day you guys responded saying that I'm late on it, and I said, no, I've sent it.

But the email that you sent to that, they never responded.

No, they never said you shouldn't send it here or anything. But I don't understand how we would have a process that doesn't tell someone where to submit it. That's quite...

I mean, on our paperwork, when you come in to file, we give a packet out with a description of those forms and what they need to be turned into.

But it's not associated in the form. So I don't want, this is an agreement of what to file with all of the legal jargon built in. It would not apply that I should reference another document.

Yeah, and I'm surprised that you're going to get a response.

So you didn't like you were saying you physically mailed it to a physical address. You didn't actually do that. You emailed it.

Correct. OK, so I was filing what I felt was electronically because it was being sent on an electronic document. Right. Like it's not a fax. It wasn't a mail. That's like electronic in my mind is sending like an email with a document.

then i think part of the part of the confusion is under that ip16 the header for that says committee's filing with the state of indiana election division only so i think that's part of the confusion if you kind of hopped over that title and read the descriptor it does say to email that address but in bold that item title is committee's filing with the indiana

So why wouldn't you include where to send the document or to reference it? I understand all of those things. I'm just talking about the law that was written and that law is referencing that we would follow it. The document that needed to be submitted is, in this case, actually missing how to successfully file it.

That's not, that's just a form. That's not.

That's a state form. So they can't, they only issue one for the state. They don't put the address of every single county because then you'd have to have a different form for every county. So when you go into the county to get your application, that's when they tell you how to file it.

So we're relying on the word of somebody to instruct me how to do it. We just don't put it on the document. I just, I don't know.

That's a state document.

Okay. But we're all part of the same state.

Well, if we put a Porter County address on one, then we'd have to make a separate form. The state would have to make a separate form and send those to Porter County. Then we'd have one for Boone County, and that's not the way that it works.

I understand it's not the way that works. I'm arguing the approach that you're taking right now. I'm not taking the approach.

That's the state legislature that takes that approach. The election division that takes that approach. I'm just telling you, explaining to you how you would know how to file it because when you went and picked up that form, they would have given you a packet that says here's how you file your, this is how you file your form.

Yeah, we don't do, this is all done by, the forms are done by Secretary of State Everything, you know, and what we do here is monitor the compliance.

Yeah. I can just tell you that what I work for is a SaaS platform that where we have, but this is how you have to do things built in the agreement. And if I ever said that you had a reference somewhere else, you sent your cancellation for a $200,000 account and you were supposed to reference something, that would not fly. So I don't understand this approach of how our, I mean, I mean, your NPSCO bills, anything, all of it is in one package. The fact that you're trying to manipulate the words, this one's for only, but we actually didn't give you instructions because you're saying it's too hard to do. Maybe we need a different county. Maybe the state should do that. I mean, I'm not here to... I'm trying to bring what was seen and what was presented. And I'm trying to explain to you that I don't think it's very consumable. And I'm sure the people at the voter office said that they explained all this to me. I'm sure maybe they did. Maybe they didn't. I don't know. I can't really. I wasn't there. It wasn't recorded. You don't have it in writing that I was given these proper instructions. In fact, when I tried to submit the second form, I tried to do that. I take the instructions. That's all verbal, which this is my problem. There's nothing holding any of you accountable that I was given the right information. All of it's talk to somebody. I call in. I need to write down their name. And then when it gets picked up, now it's all on me.

it ultimately falls on the candidate because it's your responsibility to educate yourself for the process. And the staff is.

I thought you just said it was your, their job to help educate me with the packet and that was the assurance.

They do that as a courtesy. Okay. It's not part of the statute. It's not part of the statute that they're required to give you the information and they do it.

So. Okay. I want to take you back to the original filing of your CFA1.

Mm-hmm.

That's the document we're talking about. And so you didn't go to the office. You looked it up online, state of Indiana, and filled out their form, the CFA1.

Mm-hmm.

Okay.

That's what I was instructed to do is to download it from online, fill it out, and then email it in.

Who instructed you?

The office, the voter office.

So does Porter County have a CFA1 that she could have downloaded?

It's the same.

But it's the same form.

Wait, wait, wait. There are nine forms in each county.

Right. No, I get it. I get it. So, go ahead.

So, they aren't able to do it through our easy vote, which they have access to. Justine did not. And so, I don't have the CFA, her original CFA wasn't. I sent them to administratively open her. Because what I had to open, because after so much time, we're told to administratively open. And, you know, they're coming. And that's what I did. Oh, we still have in our office. I looked yesterday. I still have not found that. She asked her to send that, and she has never received it.

Now, the CFA-1 is just your statement of organization, which is not here. It's actually here because of the pre-primary report that was due in April. But there is a CFA-1 report that's due at a different time. Okay.

Yeah, so is at portercounty.gov, elections at portercounty.gov, not go to the, you guys? And jessica.bailey at portercounty.org, that is also not the correct email address?

Portercountyin.gov.

But Monica.

.org was a previous address before the county upgraded their email addresses, but I believe they're still able, I still believe they go through to the .

Yeah. So it should have gone to somebody.

on march 31st sunday checked the emails and they there's nothing in the elections email from her

so after monday you sent the emails that sunday asked you to

Yes, I guess she said it wasn't attached. So I can grab my computer and show you the screenshot. Do you want to see this email that they're saying that they didn't get?

What date did you send it?

Well, I'm still back on the first issue that these emails that aren't going on, elections at Porter County for the CFA1 form saying that they still haven't gotten one from me. I don't know what else to do.

But the pre-primary stuff that Sunday said that she asked you to send, that Monday she said you would send.

For the CFA4? No, because I was told that it was all fine talking with her and Don. I'll get my...

No, it's okay. I believe you. You said you didn't send the email when Sunday said she asked you to.

Yeah, because then we talked on the phone.

Oh. So I thought things, then I was able to find it. So I didn't know that I needed to follow up.

Sunday on the phone?

Okay. Yeah, so Sunday says that, she said, what form are you filling online on the 20th? So I emailed in on the 18th. I don't have a response until the 20th. So then I did respond on the 21st that it was the county website. I talked with Cindy, though, at this point, who helped me yesterday. And I can take a look at the URL address if you want to let your tech know. And then she said, yes, I can't fix it without that. But, yeah, I had other things I needed to do. I didn't realize it would relate to a court hearing. So I thought she just wanted to let tech know. But Cindy was able to help me. So I had it filed on the 21st. But also I think you guys are reporting that I didn't submit it until the 22nd. Right? 21st. You have the 21st?

We have the 21st. Okay. Yeah, we have the 21st.

Mm-hmm.

And it was due the 17th.

Mm-hmm.

Okay.

Okay. So she did receive the packet with the instructions? Yes.

Okay.

What was the date of that?

I don't know. That was the day I picked it up. But what I was told is that you guys were telling me that I knew I needed to know to reference that to fill out the forms. That what would be listed on the form wouldn't actually tell me how to fill it out. That's the part I'm arguing with instructions.

about this matter or something. Mm-hmm.

And I, right. Yeah, I did, but nowhere did that say that a form that I'd be given to fill out wouldn't have proper instructions on it, and that I'd need to reference a document. That's what you're saying, because I should have known that.

But you didn't give her the forms.

Right. I'm told to go to the state website, fill it out, and submit it there. I'm not told to download that, send it somewhere else referencing the book. That is my argument.

First, this first time offense, correct? Mm-hmm. Okay. All right. With that being said, we have in the past cut them in half, the first-time offenders and stuff. So I make a motion we cut yours down to $125, but it was $250, correct?

Mm-hmm.

Okay, $125.

Second. We have a motion and a second to reduce the fine on a first-time offender to $125. All in favor? Aye. Opposed? 125. Ma'am, you have 30 days to pay. Okay. Thank you. I just gave it to you verbally.

The letter that you received also had instructions on it about if you wanted to have a waiver with how to pay that. Is this used? If that's what you just put in there, the instructions on where and who to pay is on that letter that you received certified now.

Right.

Okay. So. So no, you're not going to get anything more from today about who to pay, where to pay. The amount is $250, and you can pay $125. Thank you for correcting me. And then that would go to the clerk's office, and you could do that in person if you'd like. They just won't take personal checks, right? Or go to the election office. Okay. All right. Thank you. All right.

Where are we at now?

Okay, we are now, the other one that we need to take up from Maine that was pushed over is with regards to the Beverly Shores Future PAC. This was $1,000 fine and they agreed to pay the fine. They actually talked to me on the phone and they said that they realized that this is their second time offense and they're just gonna pay the waiver and not be here. So if you wanna take a motion to approve the waiver, you can do that.

So moved. Second.

All in favor? Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Passes.

And now you guys are into the delinquent defective reports. With delinquent defective reports, it's $10 a day to a maximum of $100. And you have before you today...

i'm sorry benjamin benjamin raise your right hand please swear our firm under penalty of perjury that the evidence you're about to give will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth i do swear thank you sit down state your name for the record please benjamin rosenberger

Okay, what got you here? I just, I forgot. I genuinely thought, since I didn't make it through the primary, just that I didn't have any more financial paperwork to disclose. So, I'm just, I forgot. My bad. Where do I take the $100?

First time offense?

Yeah. And last time. Don't do that again. First and last? Yeah, not happening again. trying to buy video games last night and I remembered I had to find a pay.

Alright, so pretty straightforward.

I would make a motion that we reduce it to half.

Do we have a second?

Second.

Sorry.

You seconded your motion. See, you're a computer guy. You should have hacked it.

We have a motion and a second. All in favor? Aye. Opposed? $50 for 30 days. I can go pay that right now. Yes, you can.

The next election that you have is with a waiver for Jack Tripple. Or Typo. Sorry, thank you. And he is agreeing to pay the waiver. And that was $20.

Motion to accept the waiver from Mr. Tripple.

So moved. Second.

All in favor? Aye. Opposed?

And the last one that you have is with Spencer Lemons, who was one day late with a $10 fine. He was given notice to be here. He's not showing up. I don't hear him. I don't see him here. So it would be whatever the board wants to do, whether or not you guys want to simply default him to the $10 and or bring him back next month.

Not worth bringing it back next month. Let's just do it now. Motion to do the $10. Second.

All in favor? Aye. Opposed?

And that, I think, takes care of everything else.

All right.

Thank you.

Okay.

I think that'll take care of campaign finance reports in October. All right.

Thank you. All right. Next on the agenda is BSTOP audit recap. Okay.

Okay. So thank you to the board members that were able to, it was, as you saw, it went incredibly smooth. Public that came, fantastic. The VSTOP credited the reconciliation team with fantastic organization. So kudos to them because the balance is smooth as an audit. They said that. They were completed in record time with 99% confidence in all contests that were audited. The official results will be available on June 26th, which is tomorrow. There is going to be an official press release. I do have a copy of the press release for tomorrow if anybody would like to go and see it. Kurt Bailey did send it along, which is pretty exciting. But, yeah, it went. We couldn't begin with how it went. And I'm sure that the board members that were able to be there, they saw how fantastic of a job the election staff did.

Yeah. As always, congratulations are in order, I think. And the team worked great.

They were great. You know, they're all pretty much co-workers, and they did a fantastic job.

All right. Thank you. Upcoming dates.

Let's see. July 23rd, 3 p.m., is the next election board meeting. July 23rd through August 1st, Porter County Fair. Please be sure to stop by the booth. The vote will be able to be there. There will be registering voters, have the machines up and running so people can test them out, try them out, have confidence in them. And then we have IVRA conference is August 18th through the 19th, Fort Wayne. Right? No. Where are we? Blue Chip. Michigan City.

Oh, it's in Michigan City? Can we go?

Yes, you would. Right now are all the upcoming dates.

Okay. Other business before the board? Sir? State your name, if you would, please. Are you just going to talk to us today?

Yeah.

Okay, please sit down, state your name.

Tony Ramonde. Hi. Hi. I just want to, because she had said something, I was just wondering about the final orders. So then obviously that's in the packet. of my, because I was fined $500 on the last meeting.

Yes. Those orders will be approved next month and sent to you. So whenever you want to pay, you need to have paid or get that payment made.

Right, yeah, because my 30 days is up Saturday.

Okay.

Okay, so then my other question then would be would the board approve me restating my file or my case or a set thing.

So are you asking that the board reconsider last month's decision? Yes. Okay.

At a future date or whatever.

So I'm asking that you come back and revisit the decision made last month with regard to his fine. And you may want to restate that again because I know Board Member Kittister was not here yet approximately.

So how would I just... Go ahead. I would have to see if the...

I think first off is whether the board...

Yes, correct. Are you willing to revisit last month's finding and find Mr. Ramaldi? Am I correct? Ramond.

Oh, you guys... I kind of feel odd man out. Yeah. I mean, if you guys feel you're willing to revisit it and stuff like this, I don't mind doing that.

I mean, I guess we could revisit it, I guess. In light of what we just did with the First Lady, though, I mean, it's the same argument that she made.

Yeah.

It's a little different, I think. Why don't you go ahead and explain?

Yeah, if the board's going to allow you to do it, I think. Is that right? For all of us.

Are we agreed? Sure.

Yeah.

Yeah. And I guess in a nutshell, then I was delinquent and it went through the 20 days and I was fined $1,000 and they cut it to $500. But other circumstances that I didn't realize until afterwards that I got my certified letter on the 29th, and I called the office immediately, talked to Savannah, and she said that Tara is the only one that could help me do that delinquent letter and file my form. So there was another eight days that I kept calling and finding out. And it was not until the 6th that Tara was in the office to me to file, which put me at the 20-day mark.

And there was eight days that I was... Can you rephrase that? You were trying to do what?

Yes. No, no. I had called the office. When I got my certified letter, it said immediately notify the office. So I did. And I wrote her name down. It was Savannah. She said that, oh, you were the only one. Tara was the only one who came to do that forum for me. Nobody else in the office could. My... The CFA4, because I disbanded.

Yeah, no. And I don't even, I don't mind. I'm sorry if you got bad information on that, but I don't do campaign finance. Those forms at any point, any time can be filed with our office. There's no one particular person.

Right, I understand that. But on the phone, that's what I'm told. So then by the time the next day, it's like, no, she's not here. And then it's the weekend. And then it's Monday and Tuesday. And then it's actually eight days until the 6th.

Yeah, that's even being addressed at the first time.

No, he said he didn't know. He didn't realize. No. Yeah, I understand. That's why I was looking to do it a different day.

That's fine. But I was just, you know.

Yeah.

So last month when you came before the board, it was about having filed forms late? Yes. Since I have filed the CFA-1,

Then it put me into the trick box for the CFA-4, but all the literature I was reading that if I did not collect over $5,000 or spend over $500, I didn't have to do a report, not knowing that by doing the CFA-1, everybody has to file that report regardless, even if it's zero.

Oh, but it signed the packet that she had you sign when you picked it up? Yes. So you did sign that? Yes. I know we probably didn't look it up for this meeting, but do you recall if you signed what she had read earlier?

Yeah, he signed it.

Okay. Yeah.

And that was just my thing, is just that.

But I also don't remember something about, like, you spoke to people and they told you to wait, not call back. That wasn't even addressed. No. This was just about...

last month was just about you by starting it yes not following right correct and like i said that i did not realize i had those notes because it was just for me this is all new and i was just yeah and then when i got home then i went through all my paperwork again just to see because um i can't remember her name but she was sitting up there and she said it was you know it was on you the penalties was on the sheet and then I started reading it again. And then that's when I realized that I had the, you know, then I was like the 20 days. And so then I started looking at my notes and then realizing that I had called the office on the 29th when I received the certified letter. And then I was told Tara was the only one that can do that on several occasions. But I mean, I,

And always by the same person in the office? I have Savannah written down as far as who I am. Savannah.

Yeah.

And you talked to her several times asking for Tara. No.

I told her that I received a delinquent notice and I needed to do something about this. And she says right away, she cut me off and says, oh, that's Tara. She's not in the office right now. She's the one that will do all the paperwork for me. And then that took me into the weekend, and then it took me to Monday, and then Tuesday I called, and the next thing I know, I'm on the sixth. But that's eight extra days that...

Okay. Well, and we don't have... No.

We don't have... And that's why I just said that, you know, if we could do it at a different meeting, that's fine. But... If not, I don't understand.

Does it alter anything for us to know that maybe at some point in this it got extended because he thought he had to talk to Tara?

Yes. Yeah.

So the time interim between your waiting to try to rectify it with Tara is not accumulating more fine?

No.

Correct. Okay, so are you clear that that's exactly...

I thought that, yeah, okay, because I thought at that point it was like day 12 or whatever.

Yeah, so I think what the office is saying is that...

I got the letter. I was past the 12th.

Yes, sir.

Okay.

Yes.

Yeah, which I'm looking for. So that...

Even though it's not great that, you know, someone might have given you wrong advice, it was not a crewing penalty. Okay.

And I thought it was.

Actually, looking at Tara's time, I have access to it. She was in the office every day, and I'll ask the entire month of April.

Okay.

So I'm not sure why she... Yeah, I have no idea why you would call every day for April. Yeah, there's no way. It's because I'm literally looking, and you were there every day the entire month of April going into the election. I feel bad that he was told, because you were working nine to ten hour days going into the election.

Any other comments? When he presented to the board last month was that, correct me if I'm wrong, is that he had done a CFA1, but he and he filed that, which triggered the requirement to do the CFA-4, and then later found out that he didn't have to do the CFA-1 at all. And so he was delinquent for a report he didn't have to file because he did the CFA-1 that he didn't have to do. Did I get that right?

Yes. Jackson Township Advisory Board. Yes, and that was exactly my point at the time that I really had at that point not a total clue. I just wasn't, I didn't understand what forms were there as far as what I needed to be.

Did you understand what the salary of the job you were?

Yes.

Okay.

Yes, which Jan Myers sent me a copy of that, which I'm well under the $5,000.

So remember, he was fine was reduced to five. Yeah, because then we're going to catch you.

Yeah, thank you. Yeah.

And was that one that was recently It used to be 5,000 was a threshold, but they lowered it.

This is a hundred. So once he did this BFA1, then he was required to do the pre-primary campaign finance report.

I understand that, but the office that he ran for, was there some financial threshold that recently changed?

Yes, the $5,000. If you make more than $5,000, then you have to do the CFA-1. So he inadvertently filed the CFA-1, and he makes less than that. He doesn't have to do that. But having done so, it triggered.

But you knew the salary ahead of time? No. Oh, you didn't know.

No, I did not. But also, they're going to raise $5,000 for the funds.

Yeah.

Do they have to have a CFA-1 as well? Yeah. Or if they receive...

Did you do any campaigning and raise any money or anything?

No.

Yeah.

Actually, it wasn't even, it was like, here's the forms, go ahead and start on these and fill them out. Yeah.

I think for the folks in the office and frankly for us as well, we have no idea how much money you intend to raise at the time you set out to secure that. right so you know we can't know whether you were raised 500 or not to run once you filed although it you know it is bizarre that you filed something you didn't need to file and it led to something that made it mandatory for you to fund right

Yeah. If I could back time up where you knew what the salary was before you went in and filed and stuff like this, man, I would have known you wouldn't have had to file that form. But unfortunately, you just went in and you decided you're going to run and stuff like this. You didn't know the rule and stuff like this, man. And you just felt that you had to file this form and stuff like that, man. And almost everybody does. I mean, there's very, very few jobs out there that now are under that de minimis and stuff like this. They probably need to raise that de minimis for you guys that are making small salaries. You're doing it more for civic duty than you're doing it for the money. Correct. So, but unfortunately, like I said, when you run for office, stuff like this, you know, I'm sure I read the minutes of last month's meeting. Jessica stated that, you know, you kind of got to know what you're doing and stuff like this, man. And our rule is we usually cut these down in half on your first time offense and stuff. And that's what this board did. Right. You know, and if I was here, I would have agreed to that, too. Stuff like this. I think he got jackpotted myself, you know what I mean? You know, because of the salary and not needing to fill that form and stuff like this. But, I mean, when I point fingers, I can point fingers at about four or five people, and one of them is you.

Yes, absolutely. And I take accountability for that. I understand that. But at that point, too, it's just, you know, being... I've never done this before. So my situation, how do I find out the information? Yeah. They look on this and look at. Yeah. Try to cipher through everything.

Yeah, it's difficult. And, you know, and that's why I suggested to you that it's actually a two point thing. The idea of the salary. And not recognizing that you were below would have prevented it. But at the same time, when you filled it out, no one knows on your behalf whether you're going to go out and try to raise $500 or not. So you have to file the rest of the paperwork. So you got caught at both ends of it in a really poopy deal.

One of our... little nuances that we do and stuff is we try to help first-time offenders and we cut them in half. But we don't have a nuance where you get cut in half and then you come back and ask for another reduction and stuff like this, unfortunately.

And it's certainly not because we're just cold-blooded here. No. Your money. It's just there has to be some order to how the things run.

Well, and it sets a precedent, too. Because, like I said, you would not be the only one or you are not the only one. I mean, people come in here, run for these smaller jobs and stuff like this. Get caught in something bad. Trick bag and stuff like that. Some of them get so bad, they pay the fine and quit. And where does that get us, you know? Then the next person comes in there and takes that position and stuff and the clerk treasurer or whoever and stuff like this, the trustee or something like this, didn't tell them or the party chairman or whatever, stuff like that. The next thing you know, they get fined. So it's like a revolving door in some municipality or township or wherever else and stuff like this, man. And it sucks, you know, I mean, because we're always trying to get good people to run for office and I'm sure you're a good person. Did you make it through the primary?

Yeah, just because there was only three on that one. So vote for three and you made it. Second or third?

Third. You need to get out and raise some money, man.

Yeah. All right. Thank you for sharing.

Yeah, yeah.

I think we all feel that way.

None of us feel good about this. But in the same token, we're at a Yes.

Thank you for listening.

Thank you very much.

Good luck to you in the fall. Thank you. If I know anybody, I'll tell them to vote for you. If you know anybody. All right. I know some people in Jackson Town, too. They don't let me come by their house.

Any other business? Public comment? Entertain a motion. So moved. Second. All in favor? Aye. Opposed? Thank you all.