Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

to call to order the July 20th meeting of the Pocosin Planning Commission. We're going to begin tonight since it is the 6.30 hour with our work session presented by Mr. Horton.

Thank you. You'll note that and in the agenda you'll note that there's a rather long staff memo in there. What I'm going to do is try to boil it down to The salient point, anyway. Everything that's in the memo is going to be in the Comprehensive Plan Revised Languages proposed. Nothing more, nothing less. Okay. Just to reframe where we are, we're talking about the north side of Victory Boulevard. It's about 210 acres, three different zoning districts, R1, General Commercial, and R&D. This all started, well, actually, a little bit of history here. On February 10, 2025, City Council adopted a vision statement containing specific strategic initiatives. Strategic initiative number one states, as one of these, conduct a careful review of the city's comprehensive plan and supporting ordinances prioritizing the north side of Victory Boulevard, followed by the evaluation of the city's central business district. After initiating work on amending the Comprehensive Plan at a joint session on July 21, 2025, the City Council on February 9, 2016, adopted Resolution 5404, directing that the Comprehensive Plan be amended to include the following items related to the north side of Victory Boulevard as recommended by the Planning Commission on December 8, 2025. We advertise the joint session is happening on July 28th. We were wrong. So one of the things we're doing tonight is we're having a public hearing, but we're going to hold it open until the August meeting, which will give us time to properly legally advertise this in accordance with all the state requirements. Okay, so we're down to the, you know, really the easiest one is the one that's got the most language. The Planning Commission elaborated on Big Woods North distinctions by recommending references to the Big Woods North residential and Big Woods North commercial. Distinction is made apart from the reference to the Big Woods, which is, of course, on the other side of Victory. So description in Chapter 4 already covers the area, 210 acres. The zoning districts are 1, general commercial and R&D. For these lots, generally public utilities are available. Road access to the R1 properties, as we talked about before, is going to be restricted or is restricted now by commercially zoned parcels of about 113 acres with frontage on Victory Boulevard. So any development may need the creation of new public streets. There are also environmental challenges, which we've covered before. Anything from wetlands to flood concerns, those type of things. A lot of those going on in that area. big woods north area um this is important no mixed use as the planned unit development mixed use overlay district has been deleted by the city council on april 14 2025 there is not currently any proposal for that side much less a proposal that's going to be anything like legacy i know that's a lot of concern Commercial development along Victory Boulevard is subject to Conditional Use Permit requirements for certain uses, unless they are specifically prohibited. The City of Pecoson, or the EDA, Economic Development Authority, owns several parcels in the Big Woods, most notably, proximate to City Hall Avenue. The EDA parcels do have prohibitions on uses that are fully residential in nature, including single-family homes, apartments, townhomes, and condominiums. The EDA parcels are not to be developed in pieces per general commercial zoning requirements. Again, that's just the EDA parcels. Chapter 8, referring to the Big Woods Commercial Area. Proposed commercial development in the Big Woods Commercial Area should be permitted with attention to controlled street access along Victory Boulevard. And we identified three possible access points, and I'll touch on this later, but along Victory Boulevard. From City Hall Avenue, from Legacy Boulevard, and from Big Woods Drive. We want to utilize principles of better site design, a number of guidebooks on that, enhanced landscaping in green areas, and the architectural control guidelines. There is an overlay in that area to guide aesthetics, form, and appearance. Okay, so that's the big ones north, generally. Number two, the development styles should be cohesively planned, more so like a master plan community than piecemeal development. This may require a joint effort by all stakeholders, meaning the city, the economic development authority, and of course the numerous private property owners. Okay, aside from the EDA properties as we mentioned before, the proposed language in Chapter 4 has been amended to be as follows. The City encourages private property owners to develop the area in a complementary design concept rather than a series of independent developments. What does that mean? That means we encourage people to develop this as a whole. They may or may not. Any traffic in all one's own properties, you all have seen this before, Bigwoods North Residential for by-right development in accordance with all zoning district regulations should be off of existing public streets and should be focused on areas where existing frontage is available or can be acquired for a new street and in any case should require a traffic impact analysis review in order to ensure efficient traffic flow. The City Council on this previous, this point we're talking about now, the City Council directed on motion from Council Member Freeman at the February 9th, 2026 meeting, City Council meeting, that all references to roads be deleted, specifically Yorktown Road and Oakmoor. So those roads are not mentioned. Chapter 8 includes devolving language, which is exactly what I read off on the last page. Traffic for by-right development in accordance with all zoning and district regulations should be off existing public streets and should be focused on areas where existing frontage is available or can be acquired for a new street, and in any case, should require a traffic impact analysis or review in order to ensure traffic flow. A traffic impact analysis is a pretty detailed look at traffic patterns. And, you know, if the results of the traffic impact analysis are negative, then that's something that's going to have to be addressed as part of any developments. Number four, in cases where R1 properties are landlocked or where no access exists or can be created, access for a new development from a new public street off Victory Boulevard should, being the ownership of the developer at the time of the application, be limited to the new public street. Be focused towards existing intersections, City Hall Avenue, Legacy Boulevard, and Big Woods Drive. And require traffic impact analysis for review in order to ensure efficient traffic flow. Chapter 8 text is identical to this number 4 here. Number five, the research and development district in the Big Woods commercial area should be re-designated in favor of general commercial. And chapter four points out that we envision that to happen. There's further discussion in chapter eight. As stated in Section 11.2-1 of the Zoning Ordinance, the first sentence notes that the intent of the Research and Development Office District is to encourage quality light industrial manufacturing and office uses within the Big Woods. The conditions bringing about this zoning district have not materialized, quite simply. The long-term prospectus is for development away from the uses permitted within R&D and more towards the uses allowed in general commercial. Therefore, this plan does envision the elimination of the research and development designation in the Big Woods North commercial area in favor of general commercial and the future land use map. Now to give you an idea of what that'll look like, I spent an afternoon digitizing the general commercial. You can see that that is all general commercial. There's not a bifurcation anymore of general commercial and R&D. It'll all be general commercial. And this will be an amendment to the Future Land Use Map that is in 8.8-3. And let's see. Oh, very important. Announce steps after this meeting is continuation of the public hearing to the August 17th, 2026 Planning Commission meeting. No decision is going to be made tonight. Of course, after that, at a to be named future date, City Council will take action on the proposed changes. Also note, and we've talked about this before, that we are looking first at language specific to the north side of Victory Boulevard. We will then move to the central business area of the comprehensive plan in accord with City Council's strategic initiative number one. After this, an update of the entire comprehensive plan will be necessary over the next one to two years to square language changes with the remainder of the plan along with updates. An example given here is legacy is almost completed. The current comprehensive plan talks about legacies coming in the future. Well, you know, it's almost built out. This will include updated demographics. At this point, I'll be quiet, and I'll take any questions you might have.

Wally, I know that Planning Commission understands what this is when we're talking about a master plan. Could you just go into a little bit of detail for this viewing audience of what that specifically means when you are encouraging those to work together in a cohesive plan what that means?

Well, we took away a reference to a master plan community because it was creating confusion.

Right.

And the city encourages property owners to develop the area in a complementary design concept. Complementary would be that, you know, my design somehow complements your design or they work together to form an overall whole that, you know, to the naked eye, not knowing that there's a property, you know, they might look very similar in development. But now, you know, we encourage that. We've stated that in a comprehensive plan to proposed language anyway. But, you know, whether that happens or not, it's really up to the private property editors. They're the ultimate planner here.

And also, as you have told us previously... These parcels are privately owned for the most part. For the most part. And the property owners have a right to develop that as they see fit, which is, you know, as long as it meets within the plan and requirements, it can go forward. It can go forward right now in some form or fashion with You know, could you clarify that a little bit?

Well, correct. First of all, the comprehensive plan is a guide. It's not a regulation. It's a guide. It's something that we use as sort of our north star in planning, you know, what we're going to do in the future. But there's no active proposal in this area that's come across our desk. But you're right. I mean, the current zoning ordinance does allow development of subdivisions on R1 zoned property. And, you know, I'm not going to hide from that fact. You know, even now, I mean, if somebody wanted to run a road across the commercial area, they could. But I will say this, the city council in the last two years has done a lot towards closing the window on certain types of subdivisions. For example, the planned open space development now is much more stringent than it used to be a year or two ago. As I pointed out before, the planning commission did get rid of the planned unit development mixed use concept. And that's a big one because this area across here was at one time designated as part of an area that could be activated for a mixed-use development, but not anymore. I want to make that clear, not anymore.

Right. I just wanted that clarification for the public because in my comments a little bit later, there's a lot of misinformation out there. Sure. And who better than to hear it from than the director of community development? So I appreciate that. I'll be quiet, like you said, now and ask my fellow commissioners if they have any comments. Mr. Hartley.

I mean, I don't know what else we could have done the last two years, but to restrict things and make it to where everything fits, the precaution that we love. I mean, we've got rid of the mixed use. Right. You can't build another legacy. Yes. You can't. You cannot build another legacy in Pocosin. Chance Hartley right here.

And, Mr. Hartley, that is recorded for anybody who wants to inspect that in the minutes that our clerk has down there. I pulled that. We did away with that.

Absolutely. You know, I mean, and a lot of the things I hear over and over again were done by people in these positions years ago. And nobody on this current planning commission voted for any of that. All right. We're volunteers. We live here. I know me and my wife work really hard to get here. And she does a lot, too, for the community, a whole lot for the community. And just remember that we are your neighbors. And I do want to hear what you have to say, you know, respectfully. But also, you know, find out what is actually going on before you come out and say things or hide behind a fake account or whatever. Okay? It's disrespectful. It's cowardly. You know, I'm right here. You might come talk to me. You can talk to me afterwards as well. I would love to speak. And I don't mean that in a threatening way. I would love to hear what you have to say. You know, that's why I'm here. I've got other things I could be doing tonight, so does everyone else here. But we care about the town enough to be here and to hear what you have to say and to talk to you. All right? Again, there cannot be another legacy built in Pocosin because the last two years, the City Council and this Planning Commission has worked very hard to take care of that and make sure that what's built in Pocosin fits Pocosin. All right? Again, Chaz Hartley right here. Thank you.

mr first oh thank you your turn oh thank you uh yeah i appreciate your presentation wally i think you covered all the points and uh i mean we'll uh see uh in the public comment uh if there are still questions very much appreciate it and appreciate everybody coming out tonight certainly welcome everybody here certainly welcome

Mr. Yeager.

I just would like to reiterate, Mr. Horton, thank you for your presentation and providing us this information. I'm looking forward to the community's comments regarding the north side of Victory Boulevard in the future. Also, with Mr. Hartley's comments, I support those. just really look forward to hearing what the community has to say moving forward and uh appreciate clarification wally on what's been done the last year or two regarding that side of victory boulevard uh to make sure it meets the needs of our city and future development mr harsh

Thanks, yeah, it was a good presentation. I guess the only comment I have, in addition to what everyone else has said, that we can be careful with our language. Some terms or words tend to be more triggering, and maybe just we can say the same sort of thing with different language and just be careful how we present things, whatever we adopt here.

Vice Chairman, nice of you.

Well, just thanks, Wally. We appreciate it. Kind of reiterating the same thing. We've both since been really overstating what's already been said here, but we do appreciate the open dialogue more than anything.

We want to represent the people in Buccosin.

We want to represent ourselves as well as Pop.

I'm going to save my comments to the 7 o'clock period. things to say before we start I do appreciate the presentation tonight I think that both City Council and Planning Commission have worked on this given up one Saturday over a year ago to talk about this so we get it right for the community The community needs to know that. We are here to serve as citizen representatives, and we all do it in a way that are mindful of the constituents, of our neighbors, as well as each other. You have an excellent planning commission here. We do have one member absent this evening, but we work very hard at doing the best job that we can each time we meet up here this evening. And that's evident with, I see, two residents from Oakmoor. We heard your concerns, and we address those concerns. And so I look forward, I appreciate you taking time when thunderstorms are going to be evident this evening and it's humid. And for now, since we have no other comments and we cannot begin our regular session until 7, we're going to stand in recess for 10 minutes. But if you are here and you would like to speak with us, we encourage that dialogue with you this evening. So, as of right now, we're going to be adjourned for ten minutes.

Yeah, you get right all the way to the end and then you turn and come back.

They taught us shorthand like that when I just remembered how to take that. That's been a long time. Yeah, not correct, just regular speed right.

I haven't done it, but I've actually seen it in the National. Is it on? On the video.

Good evening. I now call to order the July 20th meeting of the Bocosin Planning Commission. I see that we have several people here tonight, and we're all glad that you came out on a Monday night to see us. I'd like to just remind you, when you come up to speak this evening, if you've signed up to speak, as well as our fellow planning commissioners, to please speak in the microphones for those who may be watching from home, because they can't hear you unless you speak into that microphone. So can I have a roll call to establish a quorum for the meeting this evening?

Commissioner Hartley?

Present.

Commissioner Hirsch? Present. Commissioner Peterson?

Present.

Commissioner Yeager? Present. Vice Chairman Geisinger?

Present.

Chairwoman Schott?

Present.

A quorum is present.

Thank you.

If you can, please stand for the pledge as well as our prayer this evening.

Heavenly Father, as we begin this meeting, we ask for your favor and wisdom and guidance. Grant us discernment as we consider the matters before us. Help us to conduct ourselves in our discussions with civility, listen with open minds, speak with respect, and work together in a spirit of cooperation. May our decisions be guided by integrity, fairness, and a commitment to serving the best interests of our community, both today and for future generations. Amen. Before we go further in our agenda this evening, as long as Planning Commission members agree, I'd like to make a statement prior to beginning this evening. I do apologize. It is rather lengthy, but I think it's important to get this out in the public going forward. I will be reading this because I want to make sure that I fully capture all of our comments and thoughts as we proceed this evening. The Planning Commission has been reviewing parts of the comprehensive plan over the last several months and even years. When we talk about a Planning Commission and the City of the Coast and Comprehensive Plan, this is what I'm talking about. We are required, per state code, every five years to review this document, and that is Code of Virginia Section 15.2-2230. Always at the forefront of our minds is the importance of the existing character of the community, the needs, and most importantly, the concerns and input of all stakeholders, including council, our residents, and city staff. Prior to the meeting beginning, I would like to clarify some misinformation that has come to my attention, causing fear and uncertainty within the community. And if you know me, which you don't, I really don't like that because I'm a resident just like you, and that's not okay. Section 15.2-2210 of the Code of Virginia states that every locality shall create a local planning commission in order to promote the orderly development of the locality and its environs. The Planning Commission serves primarily in an advisory capacity to the governing bodies and, in our case, City Council. We do not set the tax rate. There was a graph on Facebook that talked about us with taxes. We do not do that. Before us this evening is a proposed comprehensive plan amendment concerning the north side of Victory Boulevard. Please let me explain that this is not a zoning ordinance or any other ordinance action. The comprehensive plan is a plan for the north side and for all future development. And it may or may not happen. We don't know. Right now, there are no plans, I can assure you, and Mr. Wharton will verify, that there are no plans to develop the north side of Victory Boulevard. Other important things to note this evening is that no vote will be taken. The public hearing will be held this evening, and it will be continued to the next meeting on August 17th. And at that meeting, I'm going to say all of this again, because as a citizen, I would want to know this. Additionally, the city owns one parcel of the north side of Victory Boulevard. And in comparison to the 210 acres, it is .336 of the total parcels. It is important to note that there is no submission plan proposal for a mixed-use development similar to Legacy for the north side of Victory Boulevard. The area that we are discussing is currently zoned R1 residential and it has been for decades. Someone could submit a plan for single-family residences And they have been able to do that for generations. This is not something new that's come out over the last year. In 2025, Planning Commission voted 6-0 and City Council voted 7-0 to eliminate the code language that would allow the submission of a project similar to Legacy, commonly known as a Planned Unit Development Mixed Use. If you don't believe what I'm reading this evening, a copy of those minutes are on file with our clerk this evening. You can review them. They are signed and they are valid. The city staff, planning commission members, and city council are always available for citizens to contact to speak if they have concerns or ideas to share with them. Please do not think that Facebook... Is accurate information always? Sometimes it is. A lot of times, more so than not, it's not. Thank you for listening. I wanted to set the record straight before we move forward this evening to rest any concerns that you may have or any of our viewing audience may have. So we are now going to move to item C of the agenda, and that is our approval of minutes. And that is the approval of the minutes from the May 18th work session meeting. Does anybody have any changes? Seeing none, do I have a motion to approve?

I make a motion to approve.

Do I have a second? Can I have a roll call, please?

Commissioner Hartley. Aye. Commissioner Hirsch. Aye. Commissioner Peterson. Aye. Commissioner Yeager. Aye. Vice Chairman Geisinger. Aye. Chairwoman Stratton.

I abstain as I was not at that meeting.

Motion passes.

Thank you. Now we're going to move to item D, the audience for visitors. Now this is a time to come and speak to Planning Commission about items that are not on our public hearing portion of the agenda. Currently, if you'd like to speak regarding that, please see our clerk down there and she can give you a speaker registration form. I do have three already registered this evening. Who would like to speak regarding anything non-related to our public hearings? Seeing none, I'm going to close the audience for visitors. And we are going to now move into item E, the public hearings. This is an opportunity to share your comments with Planning Commission. It's not a dialogue back and forth while we're sitting up here in the dais. This is your time that you can speak to us. If you do want to speak with one of us after the meeting, we are available to speak with you. But we're going to begin this with our presentation. We did have a brief presentation from Mr. Horton in our 630 work session, but we felt it prudent to go back over that this evening since so many people graciously came out this evening to meet with us.

Reverse here. Make everybody seasick. Thank y'all for being here. Thank you Planning Commissioner for being here. I went over this, as the Chairwoman said, at 6.30, but so many of y'all came out after that, I thought it worthwhile to go through it again. The north side of Victory, you can see the map right here. You've got the aerial version. You've got the zoning version on the right. It's about 210 acres composed of 39 parcels. 56.5 of those acres of those parcels are zoned R&D and another 55.5 for zoned general commercial. The eight parcels in R1 make up about 97 acres and this is all quite a much bigger area than the Bigwood South or Legacy. Just a little bit of history. On February 10, 2025, City Council adopted a vision statement containing specific strategic initiatives. Strategic Initiative 1 states as one of these, conduct a careful review of the City's comprehensive plan and supporting ordinances, prioritizing the north side of Victory Boulevard, followed by an evaluation of the City's Central Business District. After initiating work on amending the Comprehensive Plan at a joint session between City Council and the Planning Commission on June 21, 2025, the Bogosian City Council on February 9, 2026, adopted Resolution 5404. Directing that the comprehensive plan be amended to include the following items related to the north side of Victory Boulevard as recommended by the Planning Commission on December 8th, 2025. I'll go over those five items right now. The Planning Commission did elaborate on Big Woods North Distinctions by recommending references to Big Woods North Residential and Big Woods North Commercial. This distinction is made apart from the reference to the Big Woods, which of course is south of Victory Boulevard. As I said, description in Chapter 4 gives the area 210 acres to zoning districts R1 Research and Development and General Commercial. Public utilities are generally available. Road access to the R1 properties are restricted by commercially zoned parcels of approximately 113 acres with frontage on Victory Boulevard. This is the R&D and the GC parcels together. There may be a need for creation of new public streets. And there are environmental challenges. We know that there's wetlands in there. There's probably some resource protection area. We know that there's a flood areas in there. So those are challenges that would be there for anybody. Big Woods North area, again, as the chairwoman said earlier, there is no mixed use as the planned unit development mixed use overlay district has been deleted by city council on April 14th, 2025. Commercial development along Victory Blvd is subject to conditional use permit requirements for certain uses unless they are specifically prohibited. The City of Pocoson, or the Economic Development Authority, owns several parcels. I know the chairwoman mentioned one that's owned by the city, but the Economic Development Authority owns some properties as well. The EDA parcels have prohibitions on uses that are fully residential in nature, including single-family homes, apartments, townhomes, and condominiums. The 80 parcels by ordinance are not to be developed in pieces per general commercial zoning requirements. Chapter 8, Referring to the Commercial Area. Proposed commercial development in Big Woods Commercial should be permitted with attention to controlled street access, Long Victory Boulevard. Three possible access points are identified at Long Victory Boulevard, City Hall Avenue, Legacy Boulevard, and Big Woods Drive. Utilization of principles of better site design. Many books on this one. Enhanced landscaping in green areas. Architectural control guidelines. This is an overly architectural control district that guides aesthetics, form, and appearance. Okay, moving to number two. The development style should be cohesively planned, more so like a master plan community than piecemeal development. This may require a joint effort by all stakeholders, being the city, the economic development authority, and of course, the numerous property owners. Aside from the 88 parcels mentioned in number 1, the proposed language in chapter 4 is as follows, and this will take the place of what I just read off in number 2. The city encourages private property owners to develop the area in a complementary design concept rather than a series of independent developments. The city encourages, does not require, encourages. We wouldn't require anything in the comp plan anyway, because it's a guide. Any traffic in the R1 zone properties for by-right development in accord with all zoning district regulations should be off of existing public streets and should be focused on areas where existing frontage is available or can be acquired for a new street and, in any case, should require a traffic impact analysis review in order to ensure a future traffic flow. Traffic impact analysis is a big one because basically if the traffic cannot be supported by the subdivision or the street access, then something needs to be done to cure the situation. So the developer would be presented with those findings, probably no album before they even submit it, and they'll have to address those. The City Council directed a motion from Council Member Freeman at the February 9, 2026 meeting that all references to roads be deleted, specifically Yorktown Road and Oakmoor. Chapter 8 includes evolving language, which I really just read off a minute ago. Any traffic in our one-zone properties, Big Woods North Residential, for by-right development in accord with all zoning district regulations should be off of existing public streets. and should be focused on areas where existing furniture is available or can be acquired for a new street, and in any case, should require a traffic impact analysis for review in order to ensure efficient traffic flow. Number four, in cases where R1 properties are landlocked or where no access exists or can be created, access to a new development from a new public street off Victory Boulevard should be in the ownership of the developer at the time of the application, be limited to the new public street, Be focused towards existing intersections, which I mentioned before, City Hall Avenue, Legacy Boulevard, and Big Woods Drive, and require a traffic impact analysis review in order to ensure efficient traffic flow. In Chapter 8, Texas proposed identical to what I just read. 5. The Research and Development District and the Big Woods Commercial Area should be re-designated in favor of general commercial in the 2018-2038 Comprehensive Plan Future Land Use Map. Chapter 4 talks about the envisioning of that area going to GC. Chapter 8, as stated in 11.2-1 of the zoning ordinance, the first sentence notices that the intent of research and development office district is to encourage quality light industrial manufacturing and office uses within the Big Woods. The conditions bringing about this zoning district have not materialized, quite simply. The long-term prospectus is for development away from the uses permitted within the R&D district and more towards the uses listed in the general commercial zoning district. Therefore, this plan envisions the elimination of the research and development designated in Big Woods North commercial area in favor of general commercial designation on the commercial land use map in the 2018-2038 comprehensive plan. Here's what that'll look like. I spent an afternoon digitizing this one time, and you'll see that the area in the purple on the north side of Victory is showing as all general commercial instead of being half between general commercial and R&D. Steps after this meeting tonight. include a continuation of the public hearing to the August 17th, 2026 Planning Commission meeting. So you've got another chance to speak on this. City Council action on the proposed changes will follow thereafter at a date to be announced. Also note that we are looking first at language specific to the north side of Victory Boulevard. We will then move to the central business area of the comprehensive plan in accord with the City Council's strategic initiative number one. After this, an update of the entire comprehensive plan will be necessary over the next one or two years. to square any language changes with the remainder of the plan along with updates. A perfect example is that in the comprehensive plan as it's worded now, the Legacy Boulevard Legacy project is talked of as something to happen in the future. We all know by looking over there now that it's almost complete. So we'll need to adjust that. and it will include updated demographics as well. That's all I got.

Thank you. Let's go around just one more time for the Planning Commission to answer or hear or answer any comments that they may have while you're still up there. We're going to start off with you, Mr. Hartley, if you could share what

you sort of shared earlier during the work session hello everyone i'm chas hartley thank all of you for coming out tonight and if you even if you say something tonight that i don't agree with i still appreciate you being here because that means you care you took the time out we all did we all have other things going on so thank you for coming out um i can say the last two years i've proudly served here um because i care about percocet um it's a it's a wonderful town and i want to yes we're going to grow some but we want to do everything the right way right we want to keep it to fit the town we want to do that's why we moved here we moved here for a reason and you know uh this this commission has voted to make it where our uh codes have teeth to them and we've already made it very clear and already voted on it so the city council that you cannot have another legacy type thing here so if you're worried about that we've already voted on it we've already gone through it we've already made sure it can't happen now if somebody votes to change that then you can get back on board but that's what we've done we've got rid of the mixed use we got rid of the high capacity stuff it's gone okay and then the north side of victory right there on the road is not can't be commercial at all i mean can't be uh residential at all so i just want to clear that up all right we care about the town that's why we're here Anytime you want to reach out to me or you hear something, feel free to look me up. I'm on Facebook. I'm out there. I've got an email. I've got a phone number and all those things. I'll be happy to clear it up for you. Just because you see something on, you know, there's a lot of slander out there, you know, a lot. And it's gotten old, especially for a small town like this. You know, we care about the town. Again, we're here. We're giving up our time. So, again, I thank you for coming out. If you need anything from me, please let me know. Thank you.

Nothing additional from me except I'm looking forward to hearing from all of you all tonight. Thank you for coming.

I would just like to reiterate my thanks to Mr. Horton for tonight's presentation. And as Commissioner Peterson said, I as well look forward to your comments and your input, feedback regarding the future of our city.

First, it sounded like a broken record. I mirror that and just glad to see everybody here and look forward to hearing what you have to say.

I won't sound like a broken record, but just we are glad that you're here.

This is a big part of what we do and why we do it is for y'all and for us.

We live here. We want this place to be the best that it can be. I know you do as well or you wouldn't be out tonight.

And I just want to say thank you for coming out this evening. We have heard concerns, and I hate to keep singling them out, but our friends down in Oakmoor had some concerns initially, and we heard them. And we made those changes to adapt and, you know, alleviate those concerns. I hate to say this, but I grew up here. My family is from here. I take this city very seriously. I'm prideful of what we have down here, and I want to make sure that whatever we do, we hear you, we do what's best for our community, what that looks like. remembering that in any community a certain part of economic development is good because it helps with taxes, but we need to do it properly. But that's not why we're here this evening. It's important for me to be transparent to you all. That's why anything that I've said regarding the Code of Virginia, regarding city council, regarding the comprehensive plan, if you want to see it after the meeting, it's open for you to review. If you have a concern, you see something on Facebook, call one of us. And if we're not available, that man right there is. Well, sorry, Wally. I mean, just saying. But, I mean, we're here, and we're a community, and we're a good community. And let's remember that. Let's be kinder, and let's remember that, where we live this evening. So, without belaboring that point, I am going to move to the citizens' portion of this. And first, I have Mr. Robert Carter. If he'd like to come up and speak, just speak into the microphone for us.

Thank you, I really appreciate the time to to talk about things obviously it's a big concern to us that are More as I am because the whole Northwoods opens out in my backyard. So So I just wanted to ask a couple of questions and they're already come from the I guess what's called the the comments at the beginning of this this report and which are part of the Northside proposal. And I'm hoping that maybe my questions can be answered along the way or however. I mean, not now, but I mean, they can be clarified later or put in writing, whatever.

That would be good after the meeting. We'll do that. So you go ahead and have your time.

Sure. So my first question is regarding what is, well, it was 1B. It's the second page of the comments. And I'll just read the sentence in case anyone isn't there. But it says general commercial zoning allows for similar uses to existing B1 and B2 commercial zoning districts. albeit with higher architectural and shared infrastructure standards. But what I see in the actual, let's see, it's called the, The code of ordinances for the general commercial, it says the intent of the general commercial district is to promote a clearly superior level of development within Bigwood's business district relating to land use, intensity of development, and aesthetic quality. So it's not similar use to B2 or B1. It's supposed to be a superior, clearly superior. And so as I look at this, you know, I have a few questions. The first is how, well, sorry, one other comment. I see in the map, you showed the future land use map, that in that map you combine commercial along the Northwoods with B2 into one unit with one color to be one zoning area. And yet B2 has entirely different qualifications than this superior level of the general commercial. So what I'm wondering is, first of all, how are you going to keep the superior level of development of general commercial if you've merged it with B2, which has a different level of zoning and structure? So I'm just wondering how that's going to happen if you merge the two. Secondly, one of the things that has been proposed in the last couple of meetings which kept getting moved and cancelled and whatever uh... was this idea of adding a gas station convenience store possibility to be too and i don't know if that's going to be brought back up in the next meeting or when that's going to happen but that was proposed in writing the two previous meetings and so what i'm wondering is uh... if you then merge b2 and general commercial going up Victory, does that mean that things like a gas station convenience store will then be allowed in the area of North Woods? Because I'm picturing you've got a lot bigger area there. that a Wawa type of business could be put there and that would have a huge effect on traffic, a huge effect on all the small stores. Even Food Lion would be hurt by something like that along that area. Plus I can't imagine how people would get in and out and head to work going along Victory. So it's really just, I don't understand how you're planning to do that when you have these two areas that you're merging. And then just one other question I have, which is a separate area. In the number two under development style, it says this may require a joint effort by all stakeholders being the city, the economic development authority, and of course the numerous private property owners. And I'm wondering why there are no adjacent property owners included, of which I'm one, and why there are not general citizens included in that stakeholders piece. So in other words, if you start getting together and talking about development, you're missing some pretty big stakeholders if it's just you and the big property owners. So that's the other question. So that's all I have. Thank you very much.

You're very welcome. So we're all being respectful here. Some people might have a different opinion, so please let's not clap.

Okay.

um would you care to address this now or would you like to speak with him after the meeting uh remember that number two was going to be completely replaced the part that says joint effort by stakeholders we're going to replace that by saying the city encourages private property owners to develop the area in a complementary design concept rather than a series of independent developments so we're going to replace that part because master plan has well frankly it's got a lot of people upset because they think we're doing another legacy if we can't do that by ordinance and we're not advocating that so that would be my response to that you know as far as the 1b is concerned remember that this is a guide this is the comprehensive plan guide there is no b2 separate a category for the future land use map. It's all a general commercial. But again, that's a comprehensive plan designation. What makes GC different, even though there are similar uses allowed that are similar to B1 and B2. What makes GC different is that there's higher architectural and shared infrastructure standards, and also it may be subject to conditional use. If you look under GC as opposed to B2, you'll see a lot of uses that are really approvable with a conditional use permit. So there is a difference. I mean, yeah, the uses are similar when you strip them all down and get rid of the conditional use. They are, but the zoning audits will speak to things that will make additional requirements in the General Commercial District that are not required in B1 and B2. You know, we talked about a gas station several months ago. It seemed like direction of Planning Commission was going was maybe to keep it the way it is which is by conditional use permit we had a prospective person who might have been interested in gas station at the time but has since moved on or basically is not interested in gas station anymore. So that's why we haven't been talking about it. And there was a number three there, and I'm not sure if I encapsulated that in my comments or not, but that's what I would say right off.

How about the stakeholders?

yeah stakeholders well again that language has been changed we're not even mentioning stakeholders anymore we're not mentioning the EA we're not mentioning the City Council without mentioning anybody we're just saying the city encourages private property owners to develop the area in a complimentary design concept whether that happens or not quite frankly is up to the private property owners the deal they're the ultimate planner here yeah

All right. I would encourage Mr. Carter, if you had additional questions or wanted to speak with Mr. Horton, feel free to do so maybe after the meeting or perhaps set up a time with him if, you know, what his schedule is. I don't know, but just for clarity's sake, that would be helpful. Okay, next we have Bradigan Corbett, if you'd like to come up and speak this evening.

Hello. To the Commission members, all of y'all cleared this up for me. Y'all cleared up my concerns. Thank you so much. Yeah. Thank you.

So, Brad, before you leave, contact us if you have questions. Yes, ma'am. Okay? Because I don't want to be in your – If I didn't know what I knew and I was to read what I read, I would be really upset and terrified. So you see us transparently. That's why I wanted to clear up any confusion. Thank you so much. Thank you. Kudos to come out tonight. Thank you. That's great. We need more of that.

Okay. You have a good night.

You too now. Take care. Yes, go ahead.

While we're clearing things up, about the gas station thing, at the last meeting, we didn't vote on it yet because we wanted a new language, but the felt consensus was we want to have a say-so in any gas stations or any of that nature, convenience stores, before they come in. So I spoke up a lot about it not being my right, whereas they'd have to file a permit to build it. That would give us an opportunity to talk about what's coming in all of you an opportunity to speak on it and see exactly what's trying to be built each time. So just want to put that out there.

And the last speaker I have signed up is Jonna Shriver.

I would just like to say thank you for clearing up the misinformation, but I would still like to read my statement. Absolutely. Good evening. My name is Gianna Shriver of 1340 Pocosin Avenue. I'm here under the circumstances of the plausible future of tearing down the field across the library and my thoughts on why we should not move forward with that. First off, I grew up in Pocosin with everyone being close-knit, everyone knowing each other by name, or parents being friends with everyone. As Legacy continued to grow, it became apparent to everyone that having more and more people moving into the Legacy housing would cause more traffic, as many of you have already experienced, and significantly decrease that warm feeling of a close-knit town. Pocosin doesn't need more housing. Pocosin has one grocery store, two gas stations, and building more housing will cause this town to become more busy. Building housing can cause this town to go underwater with the people paying their taxes causing the prices of taxes and property to go up and can further increase pricing. Due to tearing down of what is now the Legacy Project, the animals like deer, foxes, etc. are losing their homes and now being hit more often due to not having enough space in the woods because there barely is any. The animals deserve a home and plenty of it to be safe in. Thank you for your time. I hope we can come to the reasonable conclusion of not developing that land. As Pocosin's future generation, this is not what I want for my community.

Thank you.

Thank you.

I wanted to find something real quick before we move on from that statement. We had touched upon this this evening a little bit. Your planning commission's new. We weren't here for the legacy, with the exception of two of your council members. They're all new, so give us a little grace. That's all I'm saying. Can I have Mr. Todd come up and speak this evening?

Good evening. Good evening. First of all, I want to thank the Council on the Planning Commission. You guys are doing your very best, and it shows. Thank you for your time and being open to hearing the comments from the community. It's much appreciated. I appreciate all the work that was put into that presentation. Answered a lot of questions. I think it might be helpful just to eliminate any chance of any confusion about some of the scuttlebutt if I can act as sort of just a layman with sort of ears on the ground. I'm sure a lot of this you might already know, in which case it won't come as a surprise. Maybe folks at home will appreciate the kind of summary of how I know some of them feel, a lot of them feel. And so let me just kind of sum up. First, let me introduce myself. My name's Randall Todd. I'm a business owner here and a father. I have two little kids in Trinity, and I plan to be very involved in their education here. And I'm looking forward to the excellence of the Coaston schools continuing for them, including great teacher-to-student ratios and excellent quality of education that Coaston is known for. I also volunteer with the city. I care deeply about my community and I'm a member of the communications team here and the emergency response team here as far as civilians. I'm very appreciative of our first responders and everything that's been done to help them as far as the infrastructure. But that does bring me to the point which, as I know, none of you all, or mostly are not, responsible for, which is that there is a sense of an arrangement or a pact being made with the community that I feel was sort of maybe unspoken, maybe it was a spoken promise that the legacy development would bring. benefits to the current residents and bring um advantages that i just want to say like may not have materialized as much as i think was hoped or maybe it felt was promised and specifically things like a traffic impact analysis for legacy had it been done you know i'm not sure that it was maybe paid attention to in this detail as much as might it may have been needed because as you all must know driving in and out of town I mean, you're going to get stuck if you try and show up on Coaston Avenue and Little Florida Road at 530, you're going to wait there for 15 minutes. If you're trying to get out of town, you're going to get stuck at the tab light because there's just so many people on these roads and the infrastructure to allow people just to come and go isn't there. That means emergency services is going to have a harder time getting in and out of our city. That means when you go to Food Lion, you're trying to look for an item on sale, it's long gone. There's just very real impacts for the citizens here that may not maybe have materialized, including lower taxes. I think that was the general understanding. All these new people coming in is going to mean everyone that already lives here is going to pay a lot less in taxes, property taxes and business taxes. That did not happen from my experience and from anyone I know's experience. So I just want to point out that the rancor might not be directed at y'all, but it might be just kind of the frustration that people feel that there was a sense of a broken promise, that there was a sense of a promise of a better life for all of the citizens of Pocotin that just hasn't materialized yet. Whether it's on its way, that's great, but in terms of just the basic things that I think citizens value, being able to shop, being able to drive, Green spaces, being able to take their kids to parks, fresh air, clean air, and safety. These are just basic qualities of any town that anyone would want where they live. I came out tonight just to find out more. I have to admit, I don't know much about the Facebook comments, and I'm sorry if you had to deal with some... some nastiness out there. I think a lot of it is based on lack of information and lack of education. So I appreciate what you all are doing here to inform us in the community of your efforts and to make sure that we all know, look, there's never going to be another legacy, or at least not in the near future. And that this isn't going to be another legacy is very reassuring. I just want to point out that Now I'll speak personally that I do hope that green space is considered in this new area. I think that is, right now, because things haven't materialized, If we do nothing at all, it's green space. I mean, it's cleaning the air, it's wetlands, it's a home for animals, it's a way for the town to just feel a little more quiet at night and not to hear motorcycles running up and down the road all the time. Just generally, it just adds, I think, peace and quiet to the town. Maybe the R&D hasn't materialized. Maybe that's something that the city could do to encourage more. um so that before that you know passes maybe there's a maybe there's a value to r d that hasn't materialized yet because maybe some light industrial things like that could actually be really good for the city's growth without adding a lot of congestion without adding a lot of other things to the city it could actually economically aid the city so um you know before we just plow forward you know combining these areas into you know general commercial use i just want to say maybe there are other alternatives to consider, such as encouraging these things in the R&D section that might actually benefit the city even more than what we already have, which is general. There's already a space set aside for general commercial. So let that be general commercial, maybe, and let's see what that can turn out to be. But there was a reason that it was zoned for R&D, and I wonder if there's not an advantage to that. But I don't know enough to speak on it. You know, I think... I'm grateful that mixed-use and high-capacity ordinance has passed because I think people were frustrated by that, and I think that's carried over into this conversation probably more than it needed to do. So I just want to thank you all for putting up with that, for taking the time to inform us as citizens and in the community. I certainly value what you do and your time, and that's all I have to say today, so I'll send it back to you.

And thank you for your service and all the ways that you serve. That's very impressive. You know, I will say, again, to your comments, we have taken great strides. And really, this is initiated. City Council down here, your city council, gave us – the charge to go out and study this and see what made sense. We've met two separate times jointly to discuss this, and we've heard what parties have been brought to the table, and like Mr. Horton said earlier, aren't EDA was at that table, too. So we all got on the same page and heard what everybody was saying. And, you know, when people find out specifically I'm the chairwoman of the planning commission, they're like, First thing I hear is about legacy. I'm like, we've already taken care of it. We've taken care of it. We've done it. City Council, you know, whatever. But that's why I wanted you all to see that. If you want to see that, here it is. If citizens want to come out and call us or your staff, you have a fantastic staff that keep us straight. That's a lot. So we appreciate you being here. This is what we want, and we appreciate it. It's important. So I'm going to shut up now and turn it over to Mr. Hartley again.

With the theme of the rest of the night, let me say one thing about the legacy, about the whole tax thing. The intention was – Hey, more homes, more tax dollars. Okay, that's what people were thinking back then. What has hurt, we've been blessed with a lot of new veterans that now live here. But with that, a lot of them are 100%, and God bless them. Thank them for their service. But with that, they don't pay taxes on their home. And that is a huge portion of our town. I don't know the exact dollar, I forgot what the exact dollar value is of what we don't get in taxes because of that, but it is huge, okay? So, you say you're going to support veterans and all that, which I think we all do here, that's one of the things. More people are going to have to pick up that cost. But that is, Pocosin especially, all Hampton Roads, but we really, that's a big bite out of what our income could be. I'm sure we can get that number for you, but it's massive. God bless the troops. I was a veteran. Did two tours. All that stuff. But that's one of the things that affected the whole thing with that. And also one more thing. I don't think anybody's really said this about They're people of legacy, and now that they're here, they are our neighbors and all that stuff. And a lot of them are really good people that I've met, I've become friends with and all that. And I don't think they should feel uncomfortable because they are here. That's water under the bridge there. You know what I mean? It just is. They're citizens. They've worked hard. They're veterans. They pay taxes. They do all these things. So I just wanted to say that as well. Okay? Thank you.

all right appreciate everybody going out and those of you shared your comments very much appreciated I'm really happy that we can have various opinions in the and keep a civil dialogue and a lot of valuable points have been shared we are after green spaces, foxes, and all kinds of other things. It's a lot of details. So I look forward to hearing more about it as more work on the plan continues. We will be sure to be transparent and push that out. Much appreciated.

I again would like to thank everybody that spoke tonight, as well as those that are here in attendance. It's great that you provided feedback regarding the future land use of Pocosum and the comprehensive plan, the adjustments that will happen in the future regarding that. Mr. Hartley said something really important a few months ago, and that legacy there's a lot of people living a legacy now and I know there's some tough thoughts regarding what it's done to traffic and and population and so on and so forth that some people share but I They are part of our community now, and I think it's important that we do keep that in the back of our mind as we're talking and moving forward. My dad was a military Air Force career pilot. He chose to live in Pocosun. He brought his family to Pocosun. like a lot of them are doing now for schools and the sense of community and the small town atmosphere if you will and I think that's great I think that's awesome that that people think a lot of our town that tells me we're doing something right and to have the military seek us out is tremendous. So that resonates with me and that's been on my mind that I drove through Legacy the other day and I really enjoyed seeing the families outside playing and walking and enjoying their living here in our town. So, but thank you for being here. Thank you for sharing your comments. And we look forward to seeing you again, maybe, and others on the 17th, I think it is, of August. So thank you.

Thanks for everyone being here tonight. I want to speak to a comment that I see probably mostly on Facebook, so it's not directed at anyone here. But I see a lot of comments out there about the city shouldn't build this or the city should build this here or make sure nothing gets built there. And normally I think that's directed at city council, sometimes the planning commission. But the one thing to keep in mind is the city doesn't own this property, most of it at least, almost all of it, right? There's a small portion that's owned by the EDA. And the city and the Planning Commission is working to work out zoning in those areas, but aside from that, If someone that owns those properties decides to build something that complies with zoning, we don't really have any say in that. We can't tell them not to build it or what to build there. I think that, correct me if I'm wrong, Wally, but that would probably just go through an administrative approval if it complies with zoning and away they go. So... So the idea that the city has a lot of control over what happens with these is just false in many cases. And we're trying to do our best to generate planning that allows the city to thrive and controls things that make sense there so that we can all benefit, the community can benefit as a whole from those things, from the zoning that we put in place. But Aside from that, the city doesn't have much say as far as what actually gets built there. So I just wanted to try to clip that up because I see a lot of that out there. That's about it. But thanks again for everybody coming out tonight. Glad to hear everybody's comments.

Yeah, I just kind of want to reiterate that.

I do appreciate you all coming out. The big thing is there's a reason why our numbers and everything else are accessible. It's because when you do have questions, if it's just kind of spiraling out of control, it's just to reach out and call us. Leave me a message, I'll call you back. Or if I don't pick up, be glad to talk to you about anything. This is where I grew up, this is where I graduated high school. So, as well as a lot of us up here, this is the only home we know. So, we certainly want to, you know, I have grandkids that are going to be the best that they can be. So, you know, if you have questions, don't hesitate to reach out.

Again, I echo everybody's comments. You've heard a lot from me this evening. Call us. Email us. Reach out to staff. Be a little kinder to those living in Legacy. They are our neighbors. They're here. They want it to be here like we all did. And again, I have family going back to Messick's Point. So, been here a long time. But I moved away from here and I came back here. This is still a great place to live. It is still a thriving community. And we are blessed to live here. And so this will be continued, the public hearing, so I'm not going to close that this evening. It's going to go to our August 17th meeting. If you'd like to come, you're welcome. Our meetings are open to the public. I saw that was a question today. And if you have a chance, share this with your neighbors. so that they understand that this is, you know, you came tonight, this is what you heard, and maybe we can get ahead of some of this misinformation. And to that end, you're welcome to stay a little bit longer, but we are going to move to item number F now, which is our new business this evening. And we are going to have election of officers. Thank you for coming. We're going to start off this evening. Wally, would it be your preference to do the deputy clerk first and then proceed with the election of officers? Yes.

Yeah, we'll do the clerk, which we recommended that Barbara. Correct. Ms. Morris.

Wonderful. Okay. So, Ms. Barbara, staff has brought forward to be our new clerk for Planning Commission. Do I have a motion to approve this?

Motion to approve.

Second.

Second.

May I have a roll call, please?

Commissioner Hartley.

Aye.

Commissioner Hirsch.

Aye.

Commissioner Peterson. Aye. Commissioner Yeager.

Aye.

Chairman Geisinger. Aye. Chairwoman Schott. Aye. The motion passes.

Great. Congratulations. Welcome to planning commission. Next, we are going to have nominations, and prior to this, did you want to state anything, or would you rather not? No, that's okay. That's all right. For our vice chairman, Mr. Geisinger will be stepping down in that capacity, so I'd love to hear what the planning commissioners who are present see as our new vice chair, and if we have a motion for someone. Then we can go forward.

Well, since I'm stepping down, I make a motion for I nominate George Yeager.

Second.

I have a roll call, please. Commissioner Hartley? Aye. Commissioner Hirsch? Aye. Commissioner Peterson? Aye. Commissioner Yeager? Aye. Vice Chairman Geisinger? Aye. Chairwoman Scott? The motion passes.

Congratulations.

Thank you.

Choose to follow. She's going to miss the next two meetings, just letting you know.

Next we have the election for chairman of the Planning Commission, and I'd love to hear your comments.

I think that's chairman or chairwoman.

It's chairman or chairwoman, whoever you prefer. I'm not sitting close to the mic. That's my bad. I'm sorry.

I would just like to say that I think you've done a fantastic job, and I would like to nominate you for re-election. Thank you. Secondary woman shot.

Roll call, please.

Commissioner Hartley. Aye. Commissioner Hirsch.

Aye.

Commissioner Peterson. Aye. Commissioner Yeager. Aye. Vice Chairman Geisinger. Aye. Chairwoman Schott.

Aye.

Motion passes.

Thank you. Thank you. We have a good point of commission. I tell everybody that. And so we really do. And I'm, again, very blessed to not only service the chair, but a place where I grew up. I know Several people would be quite happy about that. So we are going to now move to item number G, communications and correspondence. Mr. Wally.

I don't know that I really have anything. I will make an announcement, though, for the planning commission's knowledge. We did receive an acceptance of an offer of employment from a Brooke Ramey, who's going to be an administrative assistant. Wonderful. I have Barbara. Give Barbara a little bit of a break. And still looking for a planner. But David Forrest is going to be a building official. Oh, good. So we're moving. We're getting there.

Moving in the right direction. Okay. Vice Chairman Yeager.

like to start by thanking mr. Horton and staff it was a great meeting tonight also congratulate Barbara Morris for joining us forward to working with you in the near future and the residents that spoke tonight community members it's great hearing from them oh look forward to next month's meeting

I agree. I thought it was a really good, productive meeting. I thought people got some stuff off their chest, which maybe was needed. And I think just glad to see all the participation, glad to see all the faces here tonight.

Yeah, I just kind of wanted to reiterate the same thing, that it's nice to see everybody kind of come out and we get rid of a lot of misinformation that's kind of... Civil conversation. Good dialogue. Not leaving just yet, but I just want to let you know how much I appreciated this and your leadership as well. Just working with all of y'all. I've learned a lot. Didn't know a whole lot when I walked in here and probably still don't know a whole lot, but...

I don't have much more to say. I've been talking a lot tonight. But thank you all. Thank you, Heather. I mean, you all made me feel, you know, welcome since I've been on, and I look forward to continuing doing what I've been doing, you know. Again, if anyone needs anything or has questions or if I can help out in any way, please let me know. Seriously.

Really great session tonight. Really appreciate all the engagement from the public, and thank I might wish for lots of engagement when people's blood is up, but, you know, it's all good, right? And thanks again to... Work on all the presentation and on the commission's...

I will miss you as vice chair. You've been sort of there since I started this. And I'm looking forward to working with you. It's sort of surreal since he was a teacher of mine in school. So that's funny. It's full circle now. And Mr. Horton, thank you for your presentation. Welcome. And all your work on this. I know you've been in extremely short staff, and we appreciate you keeping us in the loop and getting our packet to us early. It means a lot.

My pleasure.

So with that being said, I'd like to have a motion to adjourn the meeting.

Make a motion to adjourn tonight's meeting.

Second.

Second.

Roll call. Commissioner Hartley?

Aye.

Commissioner Hirsch?

Aye.

Commissioner Peterson?

Aye.

Commissioner Yeager? Aye. Vice Chairman Geisinger? Aye. Chairwoman Schott?

Aye.

The motion is approved. We stand adjourned. Thank you for coming out this evening.