Board - Regular Meeting

Call to order the Plymouth Charter Township Board of Trustees regular meeting for Tuesday, December 9th, 2025, 6:30 p.m. Roll call. Trusty Buckley here. Trusty Clinton here. Supervisor Kermy here. Treasure Dors Chavez here. Trusty Growth here. Trusty Stewart here. Clerk Vorva here. We have a quorum.

Good. Pledge of allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Approval of the agenda. We're going to move some things around uh and add some things.

So, Mr. Mr. Supervisor, I move for the approval of the agenda with a couple of changed items. Number seven on the agenda is going to be moved till after number 13. And that housekeeping is just a to put in a in a proper order after the uh the budget is done. And then we're we are after at the very end we are going to have a uh an appeal to a uh freedom of information uh denial uh by attorney Mr. uh uh Matthew Wilk. And so with with those changes, we we will need a uh um probably a unanimous yes vote in order to make those changes.

Not necessarily. Okay. Not necessarily. Did you make the motion? I made the motion. All right. I second. Okay. The motion's made by me, second by Growth. Um Trusty Buckley, yes. Trusty Clinton, yes. Supervisor Kermy, yes. Yes. Treasure Dorch Evans. Yes. Trusty Growth. Yes. Trusty Stewart. Yes. Clerk Forward. Yes. The motion carries and it has been amended. So now we're moving into what we're going to do is we're going to move into close session and then when we return we're going to vote on the close session items and then we will have public comment on non-aggenda items.

So you'll be able to kind of commits with each other while we're in close session.

Mr. Supervisor at uh 6:32 p.m. I move that a close session be called for the purpose of consultation with attorneys for the following purpose. Trial or settlement strategy in connection with pending litigation pursuant to Michigan filed laws 15.2681E specifically Murray v Plymouth Township. Second, strategy and negotiations of collective bargain agreement pursuant to M's Michigan compiled laws 15.2681C specifically the 2026 to 2028 collective bargaining agreement with the technical professional office workers association of Michigan known as TPOM.

Second. Okay. Motion is okay. Um clerk for yes. Trusty Stewart. Yes. Trusty Grove. Yes. Treasure Davitz. Yes. Supervisor Kermy. Yes. Trusty Clinton. Yes. Trusty Buckley. Yes. We are in close session. All right. We'll be back. We'll be back.

[clears throat] All right. Ready? Yeah. Mr. Supervisor, I move that at 7:16 p.m. that we return to open session. Second. Second by Dor Chevitz. [clears throat] Supervisor Kermy. Yes. Treasure DVZ. Yes. Clerk Borva. Yes. Trusty Buckley. Yes. Trusty Clinton. Yes. Trusty Growth. Yes. Trusty Stewart. Motion carries.

Mr. Supervisor. I move to approve the recommendation of councel concerning the pending litigation of Murray v. Plymouth Township. Second. Okay. Second by Growth. [clears throat] Trusty Buckley, yes. Trusty Clinton, yes. Supervisor Kermy, yes. Treasure Dor Shabitz, yes. Trusty Growth, yes. Trusty Stewart, yes. Uh, Clerk Borbam, yes. Motion carries. Thank you, counselor. Uh next item is consent agenda

approval of the consent agenda which is the minutes and then mostly [clears throat] some engineering easements. Mr. Supervisor, I move for the approval of the consent agenda for Tuesday, December 9, 2025. Have a second. Second by Buckley Clinton or Clinton. Clinton. Got it. Clinton. Okay. Clerk Borba. Yes. Trusty Stewart. Yes. Trusty Growth. Yes. Treasurer Dorch Chevz. Yes. Supervisor Kermy. Yes. Trusty Clinton. Yes.

Trusty Buckley. Motion carries. So, uh, now we have comments from the public. 3 minutes non-aggenda items. So, if we're going to be talking about it later, hold it until we get to the agenda item. It'll be more effective. I'm Dwayne Zantop. Somebody in the clerk's office deleted all the names of people that have submitted foyer requests on the board packet. Somebody in the clerk's office decided to delete all the information requested from the board packets. Somehow now non-public information from the clerk's office ends up in the hands of Bob McCertie and Kurt Heisy. Somehow non-public information for our clerk's office ends up in the former supervisor's hands who use it to make derogatory marks of members of the community and elected officials on his hatefilled Facebook page. Somehow it appears somebody in the clerk's office tells a clandest clandestine person to foyer this or that and attempt to discredit elect officials and members of the community. [snorts] Somebody in the clerk's office and board members need to know this behavior and leaks are unacceptable and need to stop. Thank you.

Thank you.

Uh Mr. Supervisor, I think this requires this requires an answer. U none of those things are true. uh once someone files an appeal to uh a FOYA, that's public information. You can see it's on the agenda here. There's no leak. There's no disregard for any fiduciary responsibility by the clerk's department. uh any information that was was gleaned by someone who requested a foyer uh about uh a previous employee, that door was opened by um by uh um the supervisor in the Douly uh case where he used that uh disclosure or or statements by by Miss Douly as a sword against me. So once that door was opened, people are going to start foying these uh um retirement reports that that come out. So um the best thing is for people, you don't have to do them, you know. So if they do them, the door has been opened for those things to be disclosed. They were properly foyed. They were properly given out. So that's just the way it is. And so there's nothing uh uh nefarious, nothing wrong done by the uh the clerk's department. And could I speak?

Yes. Um, I would like to say that it's not the clerk's office that is not providing the information that you referred to, Mr. Xantop. It's the police department's FOYA monthly report that does not have it. Just says full release, partial release, but it's nothing to indicate what the actual FOYA was. Um, I assumed um Mr. Bennett that you were um contacted about that. Which foyer request are we talking about? Well, it's not a specific one. We used to always get the name of the person who requested the information and we don't anymore.

And now what we get is a report that says partial release, partial release, waiting for payment, no records exist, full, you know, full release. There's no identifying information whatsoever. It's dedacted. Yeah, it's redacted. But dedacted CAE. Okay. But my question is under whose authority was that done and is that something that you concur with? The agenda items and the consent agenda are set by the appropriate members of the board. The supervisor sets the agenda as far as what's included or what's not included is a discretionary decision, not a legal decision. Okay. So, in other words, that needs to be a board decision.

Yes. Okay. So the board can decide whether they want them redacted, dedacted to not be dedacted even, right? We can say we want to see it on the report. But if you look at page 116 of the board packet, which is the clerk's report, there are many that say that have a blank under uh in the blue, what does it say? Company name and then other. So maybe we need to consider um putting a stop to that practice all the way around and then there's no question.

Well, we had it for many years [snorts] where it showed the name of the requesttor in the subject, right? And that was taken off sometime in the spring at the request of employees, recommendation of the employees. I objected but they brought information and said that's well in fact they did it first without any review. It was just done. But then uh we talked about it, but I think our attorney has just specified that that is a discretionary thing for the board to decide, not employees. Is that correct? Yes. It's not a legal issue. Thank you. All right. So, that's something we can take up. Yes. And I think we should

uh and we'll have the employees who recommended it here to tell us why they recommended that and implemented that. All right. Uh, next person. Good evening, uh, trustees. My name is Matthew Wilk. Uh, apologize for the tire. I was given relatively late notice of this item of being on the agenda. It appears it's going to be at the end of the agenda. I had brought along my written comments, the case that was cited by council, the case that I was cited, and of course on the agenda, the FOYA handbook. Just so you know, Jerry, you can't limit down the content of people's comments. I'd suggest reading the OMA handbook where it talks specifically about that.

I thought we weren't taking um We're not talking about an agenda item. An agenda. We're not talking about agenda item. Sounds like you are. Well, well, I'll get to that. Thank you very much, Trusty Buckley. Wait, wait, wait. You are an attorney in good standing and a former member of the Northville School Board. Correct. So, okay. I want to put that on record. Thank you. Thank you. Let's let him talk. We can talk about the agenda item.

We're not going to talk about the agenda item. What we're going to talk about is what happened after the foy was appeal was sent in for everyone's uh edification. The appeal was sent in sometime in the morning on a Friday and by the time I got home which is probably before many of you picked up the email that information including the fact that it would had been appealed which was in the knowledge of exactly eight people that is the seven people sitting on the dis and me was leaked to a couple of supporters of the previous supervisor who then took it to Facebook to make a series of derogatory comments about not only me, but other elected officials. And for your knowledge, I will read some of them just so we have a flavor of exactly what went on after this happened. Go back to Northville, ass. You're just an instigator. And by lawsuit, do you mean the one that was created to win an election and scare all the boomers? Yeah, the one the kx was in on also. Oh yeah, right. That right. You all have selected memories. So that's the level of discourse. Jerry, that's not funny.

That's the level of discourse that this sort of activity is engendering. And I don't think it's intentional on at least six members of this board. Okay? I don't think that's the type of level of discourse you want from a member of the public who makes a very simple request that you can accept or deny. And there are reasons to do so both ways that I'm sure council will talk to you about in close session when you discuss it later. What you should take action on, unfortunately, is the actions of somebody. Again, there are only eight possible people that that knew of this and one of them, one of those people took it to their friends to leak on social media for the purposes of a smear. That activity is beneath the uh the standing of this body. I'm not going to be sticking around to hear your closed session. You guys can have the conversation about this item at your leisure. Council is very esteemed and can give you advice one way or the other, and I look forward to your response. Thank you. It's not going to be in closed session. It's going to be in open session.

Well, then I don't know how you're going to talk about opinion of council in open session, but I guess that's your right. All right. Anybody else? Hello. Uh my name is Mike Tavrosie. I uh I live in [clears throat] uh the township over by Sheldon and Governor Bradford. It's Plymouth Colony subdivision. Um, I think, uh, Supervisor Curry Curry, you've been to our neighborhood and you've seen the damage that Wayne County has done, and I'm really here today just to kind of try to get some help. Um, it's been a two-year ordeal, uh, that we've been putting up with, and any kind of help that a call or anything to the county would be appreciated. Um, I think you did come by and look at the damage that they did.

You're talking about the ditching. The ditching. Yes. Um, it's a it's a hazard. Um, it's it's way too deep. I think also being a school bus route, I think there's some real um you know, some real danger there that could could happen. I don't want to see that happen. Um but especially now in the wintertime um it's really bad. So again, it's been a two-year ordeal. I've been dealing with the uh county. I've called the I've called our county commissioner. I've got a liaison from her into the the county road commission. It's none of it's gotten to uh any kind of resolution. So I'm really at my uh my end here. And I just hope that [clears throat] any kind of anything at all, just a call or anything would be appreciated. What happened?

Well, they just they the ditches were filled in for decades and they dug new ditches and they're they're deep and uh they're right up to the road. They're they're legal to do that. That is the rightway, but it especially on the corners easy to drive in. If you're not paying attention, you will end up in the ditch. Uh so um you'll either email me or something so I can talk to you again. Okay. Uh because I know I've walked through there a couple of times, driven through there. Okay. And it is kind of sporting. It's like a a cliff. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you.

How long is this ditch? The length of the road. Well, right now it's it's in u in front of seven of our houses in our neighborhood of about 40. Wow. We don't even know whether or not they're going to come back and finish the rest of the neighborhood. Hope they don't. Is this for drainage? Yeah. Yeah. That's what ditches are for. That's right. So, they plan to ditch the entire neighborhood, but they ditched the plan.

The neighborhood objected, so they held off. And I know uh I was planning to you've already spoken to uh [clears throat] the county commissioner. Um we have Terry Mori and Melissa Dob. What is the borderline? Is it Beck Road for our county uh commissioner or is it maybe I thought it was uh No, but we have two of them. So Sheldon line. Yeah, we'll be working with both of them, but it's a [clears throat] uphill battle. Uh, I can send you all the first. Yeah, but we'll we'll talk and uh you live on Governor Bradford. Yeah. All right.

Hello. My name is Tom Leighton. Uh, I'm here representing Hines Court Culac. um under recommendations by Chuck and Patrick. I spoke with my neighbors uh regarding a sewer gas problem and I have them all um on a petition to get us taken off the high volume high flow system and put back on a low volume system. It's caused quite a bit of issues with our homes and the smell is ungodly. the uh contract. My first contact with the township regarding the sewer gas issue came on 82524. I sent an email to the director of public service, Patrick Delra. I let him know that the sewer gas issue that was present in and outside my house was severe and that this was brought to my attention by a technician from Miss Dig when he opened my cleanout in my house and needed uh as needed for marking sewer lines on the culdeac and he stated he had never experienced anything like it before. I have start I have uh I'm not good at talking I guess I stated that I spent approximately $12,000 on my own plumbing um to try to resolve the issue of the sewer gas coming in through my house and out my stack and into my yard. uh my contractor who uh did some of the work in my basement where I had to get my basement line realigned um was done and this stench did not go away. Therefore, I brought them to task. They sent out more technicians and what they found and they did it on their own.

They went to DPW and they got a crew. They came back. They checked the sewer. the manhole right outside in the culde-sac uh and found that it was a high- flow system, 18inch line going down to a 12-in line on a 40° turn, which creates turbulence, which creates a massive amount of excess sewer gas that ends up getting vented through our six homes. I have the petition here signed and dated by the people uh on the culdeac. I've made I think seven copies for everybody. I also have been in contact with the city and I found out that the city sewer system that 18-inch line picks up most of the downtown area both commercial and residential comes through our neighborhood through our backyards and then into the street causing the issue. The issue is not only coming through our house, it's actually on the street as well. Anybody here can come and visit and I'll take you out and you can smell it. Okay. The uh issue is that they decided to do this a long time ago back in 1995 and both Patrick and Chuck wanted to know what has changed. I can't tell you what has changed. What I did find out from the city is they no longer meter the flow rate of what comes through that sewer line. They do it based on the meters on the residential and commercial property. So their theory is what goes in goes out [clears throat] regardless of what that is.

That just basically I did foyer request. We're going to and I I one more sentence. We got to time you out unfortunately in that. Okay. But here I'm very familiar with it. I've been in your basement. I have. Yes, you have. I've looked in the manhole back in November last year. Yes. Um so I know this issue. It is not an easy fix. It was done an engineering feat that was done in 1995. I approved it. I was on the township board. Uh and it's to take the city of Plymouth sewer into Hines Park and into the Wayne County Interceptors. It worked great for over 30 years. And so now we got to figure out

it is presently a safety and health issue and by new doing nothing you're not going to resolve the issue. Yeah, we've got the city of Plymouth as part of it and uh Andrew I was in contact with him. He's the one I like I said I did foyer request. It'll be hundreds of thousands of dollars to fix. Uh nobody knows because nobody's done his stuff. I have a pretty good idea. But nobody's done his stuff. You'd have to reroute the sewers. Uh, you could talk to Adam who is actually came out. What's his last name? Uh, Gerlick. He's with the city of We know him then.

Okay. Adam's been out just like you guys came out. He understands the issue as well. He's willing to at least look at the feasibility of changing it. So, I suggest you talk to him. I don't think we should be subjected to the smell anymore. I think 30 years is enough. Well, it hasn't been smelling for 30 years. It's just been the last two.

Actually, it has been smelling for 30 years. I told you when you were at my house. I extended my stack on my house back in 99 because the smell was coming into my upstairs bathroom and I couldn't figure out what else to do. I didn't know where the smell came from. I was just trying to resolve it on my own. All right, we'll we'll work it. No guarantees, but we will work it. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Anyone else? Non-aggenda items.

Okay, we're on F1 collect a bargain. I'd like to welcome our union president and former state rep and clerk of Westland to the meeting president. Um, Richard Black. Thank you. All right. So, new business F1. We're going to approve the collective bargaining agreement with the Technical Professional and Office Workers Association of Michigan. We talked about it. We in closed session. Uh, do we have I have a motion. We have a motion.

Mr. Supervisor, I move to approve the collective bargain agreement between the Charter Township of Plymouth and the TPOM bargaining unit with a term from January 1st, 2026 through December 31st, 2028. Second told us to do it. Moved by me, second by Buckley. Just give you a little background. This is a three-year contract that has a 3% increase each year and some other minor changes. And these are people who are working predominantly in our office in the building here in uh uh office type jobs doing water billing, police records, those kinds of things.

Trustee Buckley, yes. Trustee Clinton, yes. Excuse [clears throat] me. Supervisor Kermy, yes. Treasure Dorschitz, yes. Trusty Growth, yes. Trustee Stewart, yes. Clerk Borber, yes. Motion carries. Congratulations.

Thank you. Bye, John. Next item is um a small map amendment to reszone property, oddly enough, from uh multiple back to what it was for many years, single family residential on Northville Road on the in this case, it is the east side of the road. and our planning consultant from um McKenna Liz Hart is here. She will explain it.

Thank you, Supervisor Kermy. Good evening, board members. Liz Hart with McKenna. This application proposes a reszoning a reszone of a residential property from the R2A multiple family residential district to the R11 family residential district. The subject property uh is located on 14354 Northville Road. [snorts] It previously consisted of two parcels, but in November it was approved, a lot combination was approved, so it is now one parcel of approximately a half acre. The purpose of this resoning is the applicant wishes to continue to reside in the existing single unit dwelling on the site and make future improvements. But right now that's not possible under the current R2A district. Um because single unit dwelling units are not listed as a permitted use in the R2A's district. So they're not allowed to expand the current dwelling unit.

[clears throat]

So reszoning to the R1 district is necessary to be able to do this. The residential nature of the property is going to remain the same and the dimensional standards for the R1 district have been met with this proposal. In terms of the future land use map and master plan, the future land use map does designate this site as residential high density. Um, which this resoning is considered a downzoning. And so that doesn't align with the 2015 future land use map, but it does um further several goals of the master plan, including it it is a reuse of an existing residential structure. And in addition, um, there are nine parcels directly to the west of this which were reszoned to the R1 in 2021. So it also makes it consistent with zoning around the surround surrounding area. [snorts] So on November 19th, the planning commission held a public hearing. Uh, after the hearing, the commission unanimously recommended the map amendment to the board for approval. Uh and the next step as an amendment to the zoning map, the final decision is by an affirmative vote of the board of trustees and enclosed as a resolution for your consider for approval for the board's consideration. Um that's my presentation. I'm happy to take any questions and I do believe the applicant is here tonight. Thank you.

So I have one other comment is I think it makes it much easier to obtain a mortgage with this zoning. some mortgage company or lenders are not willing to loan if there's an inconsistency in the um zoning for single family home in a commercial or other district. They're worried about their investment. And I would like to note that although the planning commission vote was unanimous, Commissioner Ladawick, who sits on the planning commission, who is the subject of this property, did properly abstain from voting. Okay. Do we have a motion, Mr. Supervisor?

Oh, go ahead. Move to adopt resolution number 2025-12-09-100 authorizing adoption of a map amendment to the zoning map reszoning the property at 14354 Northville Road to the R1 one family residential district as recommended by the planning commission second by by growth supervisor Kermy yes treasure Dorchevitz yes clerk for yes trustee Buckley Yes. Trusty Clinton. Yes. Trusty Growth. Yes. Trusty Stewart. Yes. Motion carries. Item.

Hang on a second. Did I miss something or did we I don't recall us approving the consent agenda? Yes, we did. We did. Yes. Okay. Um item three [snorts] is park reservations fee schedule. Sarah Visil, who's our um uh coordinator for parks and other special projects, will explain these minor changes on the fee and the hours of the park and give us some other background information. Township Park is at the intersection of Mccclumpa and Anna Trail and its name is not Mcclumpa Park, it's Township Park, Plymouth Town Park.

Just happens to be where McCclumpa dead ends.

Thank you. Good evening. Um, so shelter uh reservation availability and fees were last updated in December of 2023 and that was for the 20 the start of the 2024 summer season. Um, at that time we went from two sessions down to one session um per shelter per day and that um session is 12 to 8 currently. Uh feedback for the one session has been very positive from both park staff and the reservation holders. The one session has allowed the park staff to better control and maintain the facilities for the enjoyment of all park visitors. The one request that we continue to receive um from reservationists is can we get in the shelter or pavilion early? So, based on all these special requests, the park staff has requested that we change the reservation start time to 11:00 a.m. from the 12:00 p.m. So, it would be 11:00 a.m. to 8:00 p.m. Um, as you can see in the packet, there's some revenue information. uh park reservations are not a big money maker for the township, but we do want to make sure that our fees are representative of the amenities that we offer. Um these amenities include the attached bathrooms at the majority of our facilities. We have the sprayscape, multiple play structures. We have electricity at all of the facilities. And of course, we have our fully enclosed four-season pavilion, which is heated and air conditioned. Um, I did some research. Uh, Canon offers some similar amenities and their rental rates range from 120 to 650. Um, and that's for a 5 to 8 hour session. So, uh, some of their sites

only have portable restrooms and no electricity. So I feel like the proposed rates are very reasonable and competitive for the amenities that we offer and as everyone knows [cough] the cost of supplies, utilities and staffing has increased. Thus there's a need for an increase in our fees. So we are proposing that uh the reduced fee which is we have for certain service groups um is increased by $15. So, it's going to go from $35 to $50, and that's for a Monday through Monday through Thursday only. Um, the food prep room fee will remain the same. Resident fees are going to increase by $25. Non-resident fees will increase by $50. Um, I am suggesting that we remove from our fee schedule a wedding ceremony fee. We've had that there and in my 13 years I have never uh charged a wedding ceremony fee. Anybody who we have had weddings there ceremonies there but everybody reserves a pavilion for a shelter for their for their ceremony. So So I recommend that we just delete that alto together and then we would just be adjusting the session start time from 12:00 p.m. to 11:00 a.m. Any questions? So the non-resident fee goes up by 50.

Yes. So the Yeah. The non-resident fee has always been double what the residents pay. At least for the rest of special fee for service groups. Yes. You know, for like Cub Scouts, senior groups. [cough] Yes. Reservations begin on what date? We start taking reservations on January 13th, I think. Okay. So, do you guys require any type for residents for township residents? H do you guys require any type of deposit in case there's any damages? So, we do not take a deposit. Um we just take full payment for the, you know, for the fee at the time of reservation

money up front. We we do have a disclaimer down at the bottom that they initial that there that we can assess up to $150. Um, and Brian the park foreman, he is working on a we call it a field review. So that the the problem is that we often don't have enough staff to actually be there to do a field review when the party ends. But that's what we need, you know, so then we can probably aess. What do you mean a field review? So like they would go through and make sure that there's no damage to the facility and that they've cleaned up appropriately. Yeah. Yeah. My son used to work at the park and your daughter as well.

Yeah. Um and they they they can trash those places for my Yeah. My three boys worked at the park as well. Yeah. Yeah. One of the things was it was a good idea to put it to one session cuz it was putting the park workers in the awkward position of trying to kick somebody out. Sure. And um it was very [snorts] difficult. Yes. 19-year-old kids, they're trying to kick somebody out who won't go. And um you know, that was just not good. And that park, the park is just, it's so busy. It's such a busy park. It's a beautiful park. Everybody loves it. Everybody wants to be there. On the 13th, people start lining up out in the parking lot at 5:00.

There's a guy that line that comes at 5 and sleeps in his truck. He always wants to be first in line. He needs the same date every year for his family reunion. Oh, is that what it is? Yeah. [laughter] Yep. We get a lot of regulars that day. All right. Do we have do we have any more discussion? Have a a motion. Mr. Supervisor. I move to approve resolution 2025-12-09-101 authorizing the adoption of the revised park reservation fees as amended uh to become effective January 1st, 2026. Second. Second by Clinton. Clerk Forva. Yes. Trusty Kermy.

Yes. I mean Supervisor Kermy, I'm sorry. Trusty Buckley. Yes. Trusty Clinton. Yes. Treasure Dorch Chavez. Yes. Trusty Stewart. Yes. Trusty Growth. Yes. Motion carries. Next item. Okay. Wait one second, please. Okay. That just because she's a longtime resident of Lake Point and my neighbor, but I think the accountability and the oversight of our waste pickup is a model. It's an excellent job. And I want to thank you, Sarah Visasel. Thank you. We have three pickups and we're spoiled. Yes, we are spoiled.

Three different trucks come through and I I can't thank you enough for your oversight and your accountability. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. All right. Thank you.

Item four, which is [clears throat] part of our we're redesigning the water bill, which in February will be a little bit different. and it'll be the same size and color, but it'll have some changes to make it more user friendly. But as part of that uh change, we want to change the penalty for late payment. Currently, it's 5% where it's experiencing almost 8,000 uh late payments a year. And some people are using it as a regular bank because at 5% it potentially is cheap money. is cheaper than 20% for a credit card, even cheaper than a home equity loan. So, Patrick Felw will be here to tell us a little bit about he's a director of our Department of Public Works and he's going to give us a little background and seek our approval.

Thank you, Mr. Supervisor. Good evening. Um, tonight before you, as the Mr. supervisor pointed out uh the board has requested to increase the late fee penalty applied to water and sewer bills. Uh the current penalty um for anyone that pays a bill late is 5%. 5% is added to the bill. Um and as was mentioned, this has resulted, you know, over the years an increase in the number of late payments, over uh 6,000 late payments to date for the residential accounts and over 1,500 for the commercial. [snorts] So in an effort to reduce this number of late payments and all the ineffic inefficiencies associated with it from a processing standpoint, it was deemed it was necessary to increase the penalty. Um and that it would also bring us more aligned with our neighboring communities. So before you tonight is is to consider raising it from the current 5% penalty to 15%. To help reduce the number of late payments that we receive on a regular basis. Well, my first reaction is that I've had several residents actually contact me contact me to say that the time frame for which to pay the payment is the window is very short.

Yeah. And they're not given a enough lead time. And these are from respectable people in the community who can easily pay their bills. Unless they're away on vacation. Do you have No, I was going to say the exact same thing. I actually just got my bill. my bill. Uh, and December the 3rd, I [clears throat] received the bill and by December 22nd, it's due. That's less than 3 weeks. That's I don't even know what's that a law. What's it have to be at least

for 30 days? I think it has to be I'm not an attorney, but it has to be at least 30 days, but less than 3 weeks. I I just think it's completely irreable. People [clears throat] can sign up for automatic pay and then they don't have to worry about PCH also. Of course you can, but your bill is posted online also. You can go to the property record and find it. There's lots of option. But the point is most people wait for the bill. Yeah. To figure out when it is and then they pay it. But it shouldn't it should be at least 30 days, not for like 3 weeks. Not even three weeks because it takes three or four days until the mail comes in.

I I Well, we we had a an incident um back in the summer in which the post office lost a substantial number of bills. I had the exact same issues I had to pay and I did obviously. Well, we waved we waved it. We [clears throat] waved it. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. What's the matter? Mic is on. Can you hear me? We hear you. Yeah. Can you hear me? No. No. It's working. It's on. Yeah. How about now? Dwayne, you got a hearing problem? Yeah.

So, what So, why is there such a short window? Well, I think the US mail is to blame for most of the time. No, the bills are printed and they're sent out and um they're due on the 20th because that's the way this system Yeah, it's a systems thing that's been around for 45 or 50 years. When we go to BSNA on uh in the cloud next year, um hope we should be able to change that timing. I've received water bills for 45 years here. Never had a late bill. I mean, I never paid a bill late.

Yeah. I mean, I, you know, I didn't want to argue with those particular people cuz it didn't affect me. But now coming back to them and saying, "Oh, and by the way, if you don't get that paid, you now have a 15% late penalty." I don't know. Seems a little steep. Their credit card is typically 25 days for a credit card. I bet they pay that on time considering the penalty you get for paying a a credit card late. Well, that was my when I was a treasurer, that was my number one problem. People used to say, "Geez, you know, I just I just got the bill.

I just got the bill and it's already overdue. I just this is ridiculous. You know, I shouldn't pay." So I I mean 5%. You know the other issue too is at the end of um for the for the uh um uh for the taxes if the water isn't due then you'll get a 35% penalty penalty. Put it on the tax roll. Yeah. So you 15 and 35. Well for for 3 months is five. Another three months is five. Another three months is five. No no it doesn't compound.

Bill then is 35. So to me, you can get it one way or the other, but I don't know. I'm I'm opposed to this one. Remember that the root cause of the failure at Flint Water was nonpayment of water bills by the residents. So there needs to be an enducement to pay. Can you elaborate? Yeah. What happened is they bankrupted the system. They went they then sought an alternative to the Detroit water system and they implemented it poorly. But the root cause see that happening here? No, not because of our economic situation but [snorts]

but recall uh with Great Lakes Water. I mean we were paying for what was it? Ham tramic Highland Park. Highland Park. Everyone was being hit Highland Park because they weren't paying we were paying their bill for them. Yeah. But that doesn't have anything to do with the fact that No. Um anyway,

they get uh I mean that sits bad with me as well what Mark said because they get they don't have a lot of time to pay the bill and a lot of times they come into our office and say I just got you know the mail was late again and I just got this um on Saturday and I didn't have time to pay it and they don't want to do on AC for some re for whatever reason. But don't people generally know that they get a water bill every three months? Oh, that's really loud. I mean, they know it's coming.

Yeah, you get I mean, people get a lot of bills, but they're not um you know, I don't I don't know if it if it's automatic trigger to a busy person to say, "Oh, it's been two months and I should look and see where my bill is." I bet their mortgage they pay attention to. From your experience collecting water bills, what is your recommendation? Including the former treasurer. I my recommendation was 10%. 10%. Yeah. What What is yours, Mr. Clinton?

Me sticking at 5%. Well, ours 7.5. No, you need round numbers, but that's not even competitive with what everyone else is doing. What are other people paying right here? But Northville Township 10%, Plymouth City 15%, Van Beerren Township 10, and Leavonia 10. Yeah, that just sounds really harsh [clears throat] to me. I mean, our summer bill with with sprinklers at $450, I mean, 10%'s $45. So, I mean, we're in $70 for a day late, but

but your neighbors then would subsidize you if you don't if you pay late cuz we have to pay the fixed cost every month and the variable costs on time on time to Great Lakes Water Authority. I I truly think 7.5 to 10% is reasonable. The 15 sounds a little too high. It's the same people typically who are letting their I have a hard time believing that they can't pay because of the same people that [clears throat] put it on their tax roll every year. And I know what they're doing. They're writing it off. They're they're putting it they're cheating on their income tax by saying it's a deduction. Yeah. Uh because it's uh

right part of their tax bill. So all they do is pick up the bottom line. Exactly. Uh so yes I just don't believe that. I think no it's it has more to do with administrative obviously some people do that but the majority of the people don't. So why do you have to get the penalty for most of the people that don't for the few of them that actually do? I'm I'm going to stick with 5% or I'm going to say no. Do we have any amendment to this? Hold on a second. Do we Somebody had something to say here. They had their hand up. Do you have your hand up? No. Okay. [clears throat] So, nobody has their hand up. Um, you have your hand up. I do. So, come up here and tell tell us what you think.

Got a question from Patrick. Well, then you got to come up here. You got you got to come up here. Got to come up here so that everybody can hear it. No, there is no grace period. Okay, that's that's I didn't know what he We didn't hear the question. Was there a grace? Is there a grace period on the bill? Okay. So, what is it? They get it and they have to pay within three weeks. for example, that the payment is due on this date and you have five day grace period, which just a new deadline five days later. Yeah. But some communities do have a grace period. Sometimes we I think we have a a one-time uh Yeah, we we do enact a a one-time penalty, you know. Um, so what if we

if someone pays late and it's the first time they ever did it, we we wave it. But if it's more than once, we don't. Yeah. So what if we increase it, we test it out, and then we come back with the same amount of people not paying their bill. Can we then lower it back? Then our hypothesis is not working. Yeah. Hypothesis was incorrect that that was the inducement. You won't know unless you try it. You know the other issue which the next agenda is the the residents versus the commercial. The commercial is going to be an issue because usually they pay once a month, right?

They pay once a month, right? So they're already have to pay a penalty because for 30 days it's well they could go on a businesses are using automatic uh check writing all the time. That's true. They pay the bill and include the penalty. Yeah. Because of the cycle of their check, right? They do it all the time. Yeah. Yeah. They said 5% they do it, but if they could go up to 15%, they're obviously Well, yeah. They might change their program then and pay earlier.

I think the number of late payments is um really speaks volume. 6,046 residential late and 1499 commercial late. So that does say that there is an established pattern of people paying late. And by late, what do we mean? A week late? Like when when are they trickling in? Is this most of them a day or two? Um or if they mail it, that's the other problem. They mail it in and it's postmarked on uh you know the the 18th and we get it on the 25th.

Um that's the other big problem. And a lot of these late payments are because they the mail is so unreliable. Can we change that so that you can use egregious the post postmark date? Not really because what if something comes in a year later? We're trying to reduce simplify and reduce labor. That's tough if you have to make a judgment on every payment. [clears throat] Does somebody have a something got to come up here?

If if things are generally just a few days late to Mark's point, can we give them 30 days instead of 3 weeks and then keep the maybe kind of split the baby kind of thing? Give him 30 days, bump it up to 10%. So, we have to change our system to do that. Oh, I'm sorry. My name is I don't know what do why is it on the 20th, Mark? Do you recall? I'm sorry. What was it? Why is Why is it do uh 3 weeks later? That's what I have right here. There something about the system. I'm sorry. I wasn't wasn't sure.

The question is why why did we have it uh due [clears throat] on the 20th? Um, do you call instead of why could we extend the due date to 30 days? Uh, I don't know if they can or not. Is that is that programmable that you can make it 30 days? Don't know. Yeah, this is from the treasures department or the water department. Water department. Water department. The water department. Public works. So, how was the date figured out initially? Oh my god, that was probably 50 plus years ago. It's been around forever. [clears throat]

I'm a little Larry uh with the prospect of changing the system when we only have one water billing specialist. Well, why don't we why don't we explore whether or not we can change that and then at the next meeting we can take this up. Let's postpone this. That's what I I I would want to know if how how do you make it 30 days from from when you send the bell out? It seems like you'd be able to program the system to do that, but I don't [cough] I don't know. That seems reasonable enough for me. Every other We're using a system that is Bill a little older. Oh, it's very old. It's a legacy system

that we're going to replace in less than a year, right? That's why I don't want to invest a lot [snorts] of money in it. If we're going to re replace it by November of 2026, so maybe new BSNA software, maybe uh we postpone the increase in the penalty until then. Okay. Hey, keep in mind we do a lot of adjustments when the bills do come in. What was that? We do a lot of billing adjustments when I know, but it's one time in your life that you get an adjustment.

No, not just for penalties. There there's a series of adjustments we do um for payments and you know, we just don't want to overlap because we do penalty waiverss. we do, you know, um, and then you run into the next billing period [snorts] where we're actually So, you're saying it's overlapping would create some confusing

be there may I think there will be a an overlapping of the next cycle into the current cycle, but like like you said, we can look into it, but that's [laughter] my that's my hunch is what [clears throat] is going to happen because we we do have a sort of a manual process. Yeah, I think the positive reinforcement might be the better start than the negative reinforcement just to see if there's some change in behavior from the residents if if that's at all positive meaning try to get period of time a longer payment period period of time 30 days.

Yeah. My judgment is we won't be able to do that [clears throat] until we upgrade. Um, but we can look at it. Let me see your bill. Just I'm my people are having a hard time. We also have a subsidy. There's a a way to subsidize your water bill. It comes from um it's on your it's on the treasur's uh front desk of how to help with payments if you can't afford it. So a myth that people and businesses are not paying their water bill and want I mean it's that's a basic fundamental human need is water.

You'd figure that would be your priority over your cell phone. I bet you don't pay your cell phone bill late. It won't stay on very long. Okay. All right. So, um, you're saying the consensus is to postpone this indefinitely and then when we reprint the bills, we'll just continue with 5%. Is that the consensus? No, that might be programmable. Let me see that again. I think the consensus is that we want to find out if it is possible to change. we got to postpone this definitely until we find out if it's feasible and if it's worthwhile.

There's two there's two things that have to be changed and they're probably just settings in the system. One is the due due date and the other one is the penalty, but the penalty is just says amount due after the state. So, and it's printed on there. So that 5% I would bet is a it's not hardcoded in the system but it's a setting somewhere. It's got to be I don't have access if I don't have access to the settings in the utility billing for whatever reason. All right. What is the consensus? We want to vote on it. I think we just or you want to have a postpone. Let's just postpone. Okay. Postpone indefinitely this item and the next one which is related to it. Okay. Okay. It'll take two readings to implement this

anyway. Also, okay, next item. Thank you. Number six. Right. Number six. Purchasing of a new pickup truck. I'm assuming it's red for the fire chief. We skip five. Did I skip it? No. No. Five. No. We We postponed four and five because they go together. So, now we're on six. Good evening, board. Uh, in front of you is the proposal to purchase a new 2025 F-150 pickup truck for the fire chief, replacing the current vehicle.

Uh, that's a 2016 Ford Explorer with $136,000 mi on it. Um, it's time to replace this vehicle. This vehicle was in the budget for this year. $62,000 was in the budget for this year for the vehicle. Um, it came in a little bit higher than that after the upfit and it's uh $67,500 for the the vehicle and the upfitting to put the lights on it and radios and equipment installed. This vehicle is a is in inventory now right now. Correct. Correct. Yes. It's on the lot at our um uh at the dealer the dealer that does the my deal uh purchases.

So I I have something I'd like to say if I can be recognized. Yes.

Um [clears throat] Chief Connley, I did send you an email. Um I personally feel first I think a lot of people don't understand this but the township provides a non-marked um but with lights on in the um dashboard vehicle for the fire chief, the police chief and the assistant chief. The police chief lives in the community. The fire chief lives in another community. The assistant chief lives in another community. And these vehicles are being provided unmarked under the opacy that I mean they're provided under the idea that it so that they can respond back to emergencies. But if they're driving the vehicle to and from home, which is what's happening, we're basically subsidizing their ability to get to and from work. And I don't think it's really an emergency response if you're coming from say White Lake Township or Northville Township. So, I don't believe that we I think that we need to have a vehicle available for these people at work, but if they don't live in the community, I don't think we should be providing the vehicle. I don't think it's the taxpayers's responsibility.

Okay. I recognize your opinion, growth. Um, the thing is the standard of the industry is fire chiefs have unmarked vehicles now with lights in them. There are I don't know of any fire chief in any area that lives in the community they work in. Um it's the standard. This is a tool for me to do my job. There's been numerous times where I've gotten home, a call has come in and I've turned right back around and come in. I'm not saying I'm working in that car from the second I get in that car in the morning to the second I get here. Same thing on the way home. This is what I need to do my job.

I'm not saying that you don't do that. What I am saying as a representative of the taxpayers is that I don't believe we should be providing vehicles for people who respond back to emergencies and unmarked vehicles and furthermore who use the vehicle when it living out of Plymouth Township is a choice. The board has a choice as to whether or not we want to provide a vehicle when you don't live here. And I'm very responsible with my vehicle. The supervisor knows that. I don't go to boy scout outings with my vehicle. I use my vehicle. I go to I use my vehicle to work in back for for purposes of this job. Nobody suggested that. So, please don't It's not an extravagant It's not an extravagant expens

to you, Mr. Connley. To me, it is. And I'm entitled to my opinion as a board member and a representative of the people. You have said what you have to say, but don't make it personal because it is not. I'm just saying this is a tool I need to do my job. I I've already made the statement you can choose to live [clears throat] where you choose to live. Whether or not we choose to provide that is another issue and that's a board decision. And the board can also vote to when we have hires within these departments that there is a stipulation that they have to live within a certain it has been in other departments as a police officer. I've been we cannot do that anymore used against Michigan state law.

Yeah, that's changed. Well, we're we're from Virginia, but I know for my husband who works in Royal Oak, if he should go to the detective bureau, he will be assigned a vehicle and he'll have to drive it all the way back here. And [snorts] that's that's a standard operating procedure. If we can't do that, then we have to allow them to do their job and to use these vehicles and to provide them for for them. Essentially, the vehicle is an aid to their job, but it's also an untaxed $13,000 a year benefit because because there is a commuting component, but um if you were in the private sector, it would be taxed. It's imputed income.

Yeah. But not not for him or the police. Police and fire are a special situation. They're accepted. Tax law. They're exempt. Well, we had it as a an agreement, but now I think the IRS has made a change. So, uh, you can commute to work. They're the only people that have that luxury. They can commute to work. Our DPW foreman pays. Pardon? Our DPW foreman pays that. But he's not police and fire. Police and fires. He pays an imputed income. Yes, he does income on back and forth to work or just personal. No, with our vehicle. That's personal back and forth

because he he he's responsible for all the sewers, the water. He has to come in on emergencies, but he pays for uh the back and forth as a tax benefit. That doesn't sound right. Yeah, it is because that's the way the IRS rule is. It's a benefit. [clears throat] Uh anything from the Okay. Any other questions or comments? Your recommendation to do it. That's why it's in here. I'm sorry. We I recommend we purchase it because of where we are in the budget cycle. Okay.

And the age of the vehicle. He's been asking me every day since I got elected for a new vehicle. I said, "You got to run it up. Run up more miles."

Ran it up. He took it for a ride last week and agreed with me. So, uh, we're also going to retain the vehicle. You know, I'm an advocate of keeping vehicles longer. I understand vehicles. I don't believe in the emotion of, uh, it's going to fall apart because it has more than X number of miles on it. I know what a what what a vehicle is made of and why it does what it does and how because that was my job for 42 years. Um, so, um, Mr. Supervisor, go ahead. I move to approve resolution 2025-12-9-104 authorizing the purchase of the 2025 Ford F150 XLT pickup truck at the cost not to exceed $67,500.

Second. Second by Buckley [snorts] Vorva. Yes. Supervisor Kermy. Yes. Trusty Growth. No. Treasure Dor Shabitz. Yes. Trusty Stewart. Yes. Trusty Clinton. Yes. Trusty Buckley. Yes. Motion carries. Thank you, Lord. And we're going to work on the upfitting. I think the PE the upfitters are beginning to really gouge the system. So, we're going to be even if we have to drive somewhere, take it somewhere 20 m away, 30 mi away, maybe it's worth it. Oh.

All right. You know, number seven is being pushed. Number seven, the police vehicles is being pushed because we need to approve the budget before we spend money. Right. So, we're we're pulling ahead to a number eight, which is uh budget amendments for 2025 with Carol Roshan, our finance director. And these are uh typically housekeeping keeping to make sure that our funds [snorts] balance line items have sufficient re uh money in them for our spending.

So good evening boards. So we have uh our fourth quarter uh budget amendments. Am I too loud?

No. So, first of all, we have um wages for the supervisor's office for our part-time um payroll employee. She works some additional hours this year. Um so, we are amending budget by $1,000. After that, we have professional and contractual services in the supervisor's department. This was just a a budget error. Uh it's $400 a month for the corporate benefits uh solutions for what we call employee navigator. Uh that should have been $4,800 and it was budgeted at um 4,000. So we had to put the additional that's for the 2026 budget. Bob,

that's a human resources benefits uh management software.

Yes. So, in the fire department, we had uh one of the uh firefighters retire this year, and he had his one-time um sick and vacation payout. So, we need to adjust budget uh $35,000 for his payout. In the senior center, they had um some engineering studies done for the storm drain and the parking lot. Uh that totaled 13,300. We hadn't originally budgeted for that. Hopefully, we've been told we'll probably get a grant next year to be able to go in and finish up the parking lot and drain. So, for right now, I need we're going to budget the 133 for this year. That'll be a capital um outlay for construction in progress. And then next year, we will add to that uh fixed asset. This will be a a federal CBDG grant to fix the p the drains in the sidewalk um in the parking lot which are essentially dry wells that overflow when it rains.

Right. So over and above the CBDG grant we get for transportation. Yeah. It has nothing to do with it. This is coming through the county. Okay. A special it's approximately uh Jeremy is approximately a four or 500,000 Um, so we will we will re-engineer the parking lot. Then maybe we can use it for voting someday. When I'm not here. When you're [laughter] not here. Girl, where where are you? Uh, right. I'm on that page. Okay. About halfway down three.

So I am on account number which would would be 1017180100 0. the contractual and professional and contractual services for planning. Um, we need a budget amendment for $7,000 and this has to do with a public transit project. After that, planning also has some planning services. It appears right now we're going to be over what we originally budgeted, so we'll need an additional $7,000. Um, planning also um has a DPS staff member that does some work for them and uh DPS is a different fund. So, uh we're going to be about $2,400 short this year. So, we need to bump that up.

That's Carol Martin. Correct.

Correct. Um we have the planning commission had some additional training. They uh we had $1,000 budgeted, but we spent $1,300, so we need an additional $300 there. Uh the park um their wages for this year um we need an additional $32,000. The budget was um I'm not sure what went on. It looks like it was budgeted too low. And then also at the park, uh the contractual lawn care appears right now we're going to need about another $20,000. so we don't go over budget. So, general fund appropriations total $118,800. Moving on to the DDA, um the uh utility for the billing for the the EV chargers, the what we paid DTE, uh we're going to need about another $8,000 in that budget. On the other side of that, it appears as of um the end of November, we had revenue of $61,000. So even with that addition, we're on the plus side with the EV chargers. And I believe the EV chargers has two more months of revenue that will probably come in. Technically, we're not make supposed to make revenue on the EV chargers, but we do have to have money because eventually, even though they're new, they're going to need repairs. So, um, and there's depreciation to go along with that. Um, moving on to water and sewer. Uh, the sewage disposal costs. Um, it's hard to anticipate with water and sewer what our actual costs are going to be. So, just to be sure that we don't go over budget for the sewage disposal, um, I'm requesting an amendment of 146,000 and then the water purchases is um,

500,000. So that would be a total of 646,000 for water and sewer. Total appropriations is $772,800 for all funds. Mr. Supervisor, I move that the Plymouth Township Board of Trustees hereby adopt resolution 2025-12-09-106 authorizing various fiscal year 2025 budget amendments as outlined and attached. Second. Moved by Growth, second by Stuart. Cler Corva, yes. Supervisor Kermy, yes. Trusty Buckley, yes.

Trusty Growth, yes. Treasure Dor Shabitz, yes. Trusty Stewart, yes. Trusty Clinton, yes. Motion carries. Thank you. We will move on to number nine, which is the 2026 general fund budget, which we reviewed uh a couple of times in the fall. Uh this recommendation is balanced very closely with revenue. So we're we may have to make some adj adjustments later. But uh uh Carol, is that correct? We're we're essentially a wash or maybe 30,000.

We have a small surplus at this point. So um we're looking good. But before we get started, I just want to have a few comments about the budget. So um so I want to say that our budget is a financial plan that estimates expected revenues and expenditures for a single year. And the budget is a planning tool. It's not carved in stone. We have developed the budget the best we could with the information available to us at this time, which means the budget can change as the year moves on. If revenue comes in lower than anticipated, the departments will need to cut back on whatever they were planning to spend. Plymouth Townships adopts revenues by fund and expenditures by department. That means the board is not technically approving each indo individual item in each account number in each department. The department total is being approved. Departments [clears throat] cannot just spend because something is in their budget. The purchasing policy must be adhered to. The bottom line department budget must be kept in mind when purchasing. If estimates for a purchase is higher than anticipated, the department must decide on where they can cut back to cover that overage. Amending the budget and asking for more money is not adhering to a budget. That is an open checkbook. There are times when something unanticipated happens and a budget must be amended. Those times should be few and far between. So, we're putting a budget out there. We're wanting the department heads to plan and for and if there's some surprises, see where they can cut back. If it's an absolute emergency or we can't come up with the funds at that point, we'll come and amend budget, but we don't want to be trying to amend budget regularly. We'd like to stay within the budget we put out there. So, our our first budget, and I don't

really have a presentation for anything because we've been through these, and I really haven't had any questions for anybody. So, first of all, we have the general fund budget. There's a $64,000 surplus at this point in time. Um, I do have a page in there. It's page 203, which will show you what items have been changed from the original draft you received for September 1st.

The biggest one is reduction in state shared revenue 75,000. Is that right? Yes, we we did decrease the state shared revenue and based on um the what has come in actually this year in the building department for the building inspections and the plumbing permits. And then when Brian was here with Plant Moran, he mentioned that he thought our revenue was a little flat. So, based on what we know of projects that will be that have started that will go into next year or will start next year, we bumped up um revenue for the building department. But that's only true if it comes in.

Yes. Just like any other year. Yes.

And then um we had a couple adjustments in expenditures. The largest one, there are four items you'll see in here that are BSNA related. They total 130,600. There's an adjustment in the water and sewer fund for their portion of BSNA. And we already did have some BSNA maintenance fees in there. So, this isn't the full cost. This is just in addition to um the police department hired two new employees and they did not take benefits. So you'll see an adjustment there where we backed out what would have cost for benefits and uh they took the opt out. So the $3,900 or $3,900 each was put in. So there was some other major changes there. And when we originally went through uh in the park the place structure upgrades, we didn't budget for those. I didn't have a figure at that time. So now we have the figure and we put that in. So, with um all of these adjustments at this time, we have we're showing a $64,000 surplus for fiscal year 2026 in the general fund.

Now, it's my understanding we're not putting any money in OPED. Correct. Now, in the past several years, we've put $250,000 each time.

Now, if for everyone's edification, uh we passed a millillage in order to help do that along with the pension. And [clears throat] the reason we had to do that is because so many communities, Lith Township being one of them, were not putting enough money away for that. And so the state came down with a mandate that virtually forced us to have a tax increase in order to do that. And it looks like we're kind of returning to the practice of the past, which was not responsible. And so I'm disappointed that we're not continuing to put money in the OPED when uh when that's what we should be doing. And I'm I'm disappointed in that. I'm not saying I'm not going to vote for the budget because there's things in here that need to happen. But I'm sure surely disappointed that we're not fulfilling our obligation and going back to a pay as you go is what got us in trouble to begin with along with not just Plymouth Township, a lot of communities. So, I'm I I want to voice that I think we should be putting money into that

and [clears throat] I think it's the responsible thing to do and that we should continue to do that until the the system is is much closer to 100%. So, let me make a few comments on that. [clears throat] We put in the committed amount that was in the millillage 250,000 a year for was it five years? Six. Six. We did it an additional year which we weren't obligated to do in 2025. I understand

we are in an acceptable position and we will make adjustments as time goes on. The stock market has exploded. Uh we're okay. We're not going to be stopping payments for people's uh retirement benefits. We also have in place uh new hires since 2015 approximately do not get retiree health benefits. So we've we're capping the uh long-term legacy cost on that. So we're covering two fronts is where do you stand on it, Bob?

I agree with Jerry. However, um if we were to fund it, we I I I think the Carol and Chuck and the department has had to squeeze in everywhere they could to get us to a balanced budget. If we were to fund that this year, we would have to take it out of fund balance. So, we would take it out of out of [clears throat and cough] our general uh account and our reserve our reserve and we put in the non-restrictive. Yeah. But but you see it

we can always address it but you know stand up but see that but that's what got us into trouble before along with every other community that failed to do this. And so it's just a responsible thing to just go ahead and do it and keep it moving in the right direction. Trouble is not the word. It was the state [clears throat] passed the law

because we weren't in trouble. We were meeting our obligations. you never know you're going to meet those obligations because you weren't funding it. And so it was that behavior that caused the state to mandate it because so many places were not funding it and wanting to pay as you go because some places have millions and millions of dollars worth of responsibility and that's just not responsible. We made an agreement with people to fund it to to have this benefit. And yes, it's capped because there's a new system now, but this is for the people that we had these promises before. And and and Mark Clinton did a great job in putting together a program to where u uh we were going to fund this. And I think it's just I think it's irresponsible to not keep doing it. And while I'm talking about that, listen folks, uh there's nobody that hates uh uh taxing people unnecessarily. There's nobody on this board that has done more to keep taxes lower than than me. Uh I'm the one who did uh when I was in the legislature Prop A, which saved gazillions of dollars. So, no one has been a more of a a tax anti-ax person than than myself. But the real real real real issue is is that in the coming next couple of years, you've got revenue going like this and you got cost going like this. That gap is going to continue. So in 27 and 28, you're not you're going to be end up taking money out of this fund that you won't have available for for uh OPED and pensions because it's going to be eaten up. So, you're not going to have the that money. And and and [clears throat] I'm here to tell you the responsible thing to do is you're probably looking at sometime in the next year or two of having a tax

increase because this is what's happening. Doesn't matter how you how you crunch the numbers, this is what h we're going to be $2 million in the hole by the end of uh of our term in 28. Okay, [clears throat] Mr. Supervisor. Thank you for your fiscal responsibility. Move to adopt resolution number 2025-12-09-107 authorizing the adoption of the 2026 Charter Council of Plymouth General Appropriations Act for general fund and the 2026 budget as outlined and attached in accordance with the terms and conditions contained therein. Second

second moved by Stuart. Second by Buckley. Roll call. Clerk Vorba. Yes. Supervisor Kermy, yes. Trusty Buckley, yes. Trusty Growth, yes. Treasure Davitz, yes. Trustee Stewart, yes. Trusty Clinton, yes. Motion carries.

All right. Thanks. Go to the next one. Um, [clears throat] this is number 10. Uh, enterprise budgets. So your your enterprise um funds as uh the transportation fund, the water and sewer fund and the rubbish collection fund um

page 243 shows the changes that I have made to the water and sewer fund since you originally saw their budget. Uh there is a line for BSNA which is 29,700 additional fees. Um, and the only other change they have is they had an employee go from part-time to full-time. So, we changed the full-time line for wages. We decreased the wages in the part-time, and then we had to make adjustments to Social Security, Medicare, and medical benefits. So, that is the only change that we've had since the original um transportation fund is showing a surplus of $12,900. Water and sewer has more projects this year. They are showing a use of fund balance of 6,1899 and rubbish collection fund is showing a surplus of 71,300. Mr. Supervisor, I move to adopt resolution 2025-12-09-108 authorizing the adoption of the 2026 Charter Township of Plymouth General Appropriations Act for the Enterprise Enterprise Funds budget as outlined and attached in accordance with the terms and conditions contained therein.

Second. Second by moved by Gross, second by Stuart. Wait, I got a question. Okay, what is it? Any comments? Did you um did you say that the deficit would be $6 million on the water and sewer fund? Yes. Based on all of the projects that he has uh that Patrick has uh budgeted for. Okay. So that's not because of um run rate operational costs. Those are from No, it's capital, right? Okay. That's capital. Some of those have been deferred. Yeah. And depending on how things go, some may get deferred again, but most of it is putting assets in the ground. Yeah, I got it.

Uh the biggest one is the water the half a million dollar water tank and pipeline on five mile five mile. Trusty Clinton, yes. Trusty Stewart, yes. Treasure Dorchevitz, yes. Trusty Growth, yes. Trusty Buckley, yes. Supervisor Kermy, yes. Clerk Borba, yes. Motion carries. Number 11, special revenue funds.

So the special revenue funds are the federal drug forfeiture fund, the state drug forfeiture fund, the IRS drug forfeiture fund, the opioid settlement fund, and the ARPA fund which has we've closed up this year. There will be no more ARPA. So um based on the fact that you cannot budget revenues other than interest earned at the bank for uh the forefeer funds, we are showing a use of fund balance at this point in time of $28,800 for the federal drug forfeite, $138,900 for the drug law forfeite, $1,900 for the law enforcement IRS forfeite, $500 $100 surplus in the opioid fund. Um, we did move from the general fund the purchase of more police equipment over into the the federal and straight state drug funds for fiscal year 2026. And the uh the flock cameras are also moved over to the uh federal drug fund is it for the state. So, we've moved the the new cameras. We've moved over into these funds. They're not coming out of general fund.

Does that include the two police vehicles we're going to be looking at? Is the money there for that? Yeah. Okay. That's the 142,000. Right. Mr. Supervisor, I move to adopt resolution 2025-12-9-109 [clears throat] authorizing the adoption of the 2026 Charter Township of Plymouth General Appropriation Act for the Special Revenue Funds budget as outlined in the attached in accordance with the terms and conditions contained therein. Second. Second by growth. Clerk Forba. Yes. Supervisor Kermy. Yes. Trusty Buckley. Yes. Trusty Growth.

Yes. Trustee Treasure Dor Chevitz. Yes. Trusty Stewart. Yes. Trusty Clinton. Yes. Motion carries. We move to number 13, which is capital project or 12. Yeah. Component unit. Excuse me. Component units funds. Number 12.

The component units are made up of the the downtown development authority and the brownfield redevelopment authority. So currently we're showing a use of fund budget of $30,000 for the DDA and a surplus of $33,300 in the brownfield. Um based on how projects are moving, these two funds were hard to budget. So there may be some budget adjustments next year if projects get moving quicker than anticipated. Now we're moving from DDA 55,000 for police protection. Yes.

And 615 for flock cameras or license plate readers. Is that is that right? There's a capital outlay item for uh the DDA for the the cameras and it's going to be put in the DDA. It's going to be in the DDA DDA along Anna Road. Okay. Which stretches from Eckles to just west of Sheldon, right? How much [clears throat] did you say for the cameras?

Their portion was 615. I'm going by pure memory. I'd have to find it in here. I think it was 615. You're right. Okay, just an idea. That's what I wanted. Mr. Supervisor, I move to adopt resolution 2025-12-9-110 authorizing the adoption of the 2026 Charter Township of Plymouth General Appropriations Act for the component units fund budget as outlined and and [clears throat] attached in accordance with the terms and conditions contained therein. Second. Second by Buckley. Trusty Clinton. Yes. Trusty Stewart. Yes. Treasure Dorsitz.

Yes. Trustee Growth. Yes. Trusty Buckley. Yes. Supervisor Kermy. Yes. Clerk Borva. Yes. Motion carries. So that Carol, are we done? No. We have number 13. We got 13 and and then go to seven and then to 14 and then the the the foyer. That's right. Okay. 13. Uh, capital project fund.

So, the capital project fund or we also call that the the township revolving improvement fund. This is the fund where um police, fire, township hall, DPW, they all have $50,000 set aside in this fund for emergency repairs, usually for building, but it could be other things. So, we don't have anything budgeted to actually spend next year because we don't have an emergency at this point in time. We do have some interest budgeted that we will earn at the bank. But other than that, there is no activity on this. Um, if it's a larger expense, it will come to the board. If it's an emergency, Chuck will approve it depending on on what's going on at the time. So, this has really no expenditure budget at this point in time.

So, the money is there if we need we have we have money to take care of our emergencies. Mr. Supervisor, I move to adopt resolution number 2025-12-09-111 authorizing the adoption of the 2026 Chartered Township of Plymouth General Appropriations Act for the Capital Project Fund budget as outlined and attached in accordance with the terms and conditions contained therein. Second. Second by Growth. Clerk Forba. Yes. Treasurer Kermy. Yes. I'm sorry. Supervisor Kermy, I apologize. Tired. Uh, Trusty Buckley, yes. Trusty Growth, yes. Treasurer Dors Chevz,

yes. Thank you. Trusty Stewart, yes. And Trustee Clinton, yes. Motion carries. Now, we're going to do seven. Thank you. Now, we're going to spend some money, right? Yes, we are. I just want to comment, Carol, that um this budget prep um presentation is outstanding. It's very understandable. I you know I read I read it all and um and the way you explain it is very very helpful to all of us. So thank you. You're doing a good job. Thank you Carol. Thanks Carol. So seven is the police uh vehicles.

Carol, are you leaving? Oh, one one thing is uh for the the bills review for the month of December. Who's next? And do they know it? Yes, we had that conversation already. All right. Okay, John and uh Mark. All right. Lieutenant,

good evening board. I come before you tonight uh to seek approval to be able to order two new uh 2026 police vehicles. I come to you tonight um instead of in January because I recently found out in December 1st that Ford is going to be closing the ordering period for the vehicle that we utilize. One that we like we use uh is the Ford Interceptor all-wheel drive utility with the EcoBoost motor. Uh so that specific one, they're closing that ordering period on January 10th uh which falls before uh the first board meeting of 2026. Uh so we're looking to uh order just two of these vehicles and that cost will come up to 98,270 and then we're going to have some upfitting costs and those upfitting costs to be no more than $50,000. I believe that upfitting cost is going to come in significantly less than that. because the vast majority of the equipment that we have in the two existing vehicles that will be replaced will be able to be transferred over from one vehicle uh to the other. Uh I would like to do some upgrades uh which we've done uh this year. Um installing more emergency lights to make our vehicles a bit more visible out there to the uh the bordering public. uh in addition to installing a second siren, one in case of siren failure and two, you get that what is called the howler, which is the really deep loud uh sound to help penetrate into the other cars because we know that engineers are making cars uh quieter and quieter. So, we need to be able to overcome that so the motorists know that emergency vehicle is coming up uh behind them. Uh the the price the quote was obtained through state bid through Longhammer Ford, the dealership that we've been

purchasing vehicles for quite some time. Uh the order would be submitted if approved um in before the deadline, the first part of January of 2026. And then we could kind of expect between 90 and 120 days before we take delivery of those vehicles. We'll get those vehicles. We'll have them uh graphics on and then they will sit. Uh they'll sit until we get more miles on the vehicles that we're going to be rotating out. I like to get between 90 and 100,000 miles on the vehicles before we rotate them out of service. Um, at 5 years, 100,000 miles, that's when the warranty um expires on some of the more expensive components, uh, such as the transmission and the engine. Usually at that point in time, these cars are pretty pretty beat up. So, typically, we like to get 3 years of service out of our cars. Uh, sometimes we can get more depending on who's operating it. Uh, for example, if our sergeants are driving a car, usually we get, you know, six years out of those cars. Uh the car that we outfitted this year for the lieutenant spot that's going to get probably quite a few number of years um because the number of vehicle miles that I drive is is just not that that much. So that's what I come uh before you at this point in time.

Who would be getting these vehicles?

Uh so these vehicles will be assigned to the the patrol division. Uh there's two vehicles in mind uh 231 232 specifically that these two vehicles will be the replacements for. Um but I would imagine probably the end of 2026 or the first part of 2027 at that point in time we'll have the mileage um necessary to be able to make the replacements. Um when Ford closes the ordering period, um they don't tell us if they plan to open it up again in the calendar year. Uh if they do open it up, what we can expect is there going to be a price increase. I was looking at the uh the cost of the vehicles that we bought in 2025 to the vehicle now. Um it really was $250 [cough] uh increase, which I thought was actually quite quite good. Um, at one point in time, uh, a number of years back, we actually experienced a $10,000 price increase from one year to the next. [sighs]

So, you know that I Oh, tell me when you're done. I'm done. You know that I have two concerns. Number one is the upfitting cost is equal to 50% of the purchase price of the vehicle. Yes,

there's something wrong. Maybe the industry is consolidated but we need [clears throat] to work that issue that I know you're switching you're you we are using uh previously um used equipment but that's a great idea but we need to work on that. I cannot u fathom this equipment being that high of a percentage of a new vehicle. Yeah, there was a number of years ago, I should say number of years ago, within the last 5 years as we coming out of CO, there was a 20% price increase on just the cost of materials that the outfitters were were buy and of course that that cost gets passed on to us being the consumer. Uh we use Winder uh police equipment which is a familyrun operation in Southgate. We have used others in the past um and some of those uses have been absolute complete disasters. Um the vehicles just from day one didn't work right. There was a power drain on it. The battery

didn't we have a couple of fires, electrical fires and that car eventually caught fire. Yes. Yeah. What's included in the upfitting? [snorts] What's uh

so the upfitting expense is a lot of it has to do with uh the majority of the cost is is the parts. The labor is a very small percentage of the upfit expense. Um, so with this one, you're going to have, you know, the change over of various pieces of equipment. Uh, the computers that we have, we don't need to buy new computers. We just transfer it from one to the next. Um, so there's a little bit of labor to do that. Uh, the video, the incar video system is I have to have to buy a new um, kit, you know, 500 bucks. They'll put that in there. There's going to be some labor expenses on that. Uh, the tracer bar lights, that would be a new feature that I would like to get for these vehicles. That's those are the lights on like the rocker panels on the side

on the side lights. Exactly. So you're not the siren. Yep. We like the vehicles to be kind of uh universal with the other ones that we have uh to make sure that they have the same uh siren control features on it as well. What I'm liking is on the light bars that we have in 231 232. I'm hoping uh that they're new enough have like the amber um like directional arrows. Uh so if a police car is stopped, they can turn on on the right one and kind of get the motor's attention saying, "Oh, I need to move over to the right to kind of speed up uh traffic a little bit because the last thing they want to do is, you know, create a secondary crash behind us." Yeah, that's sounds like a good feature.

So the upfitting is what takes it from being a vehicle to a police vehicle. That's exactly right. Yeah. That's just a in these vehicles you they're not readily available on lots of dealerships, right? Is that the size of the engine? Um the engine is, you know, specific for police use. It has an EcoBoost, which is like a twin a twin turbo. Um we do have three that do not have twin turbos in it. And I can tell you that there is a significant difference in acceleration. Um you know, I hear comments from the officers that, you know, it's they're a little concerned when they're pulling out to try to catch up to a speeder. They really have to be very cautious on how that next car behind them is. So sometimes

which cars don't can catch up with speeders. [laughter] They all can eventually. Do we have do we have them marked so that we know where they're [laughter] I like that answer. It's a 24 series car out the electron. Yeah. The other item, you know that we've discussed this is having vehicles purchased while the meter is running on the warranty and they're sitting idle.

So, we need to manage that. But it's also we want to increase the mileage as much as possible. That's why we use 100% synthetic oil. That's really important with turbocharged vehicles and how you treat them when you idle down uh while that turbo is spinning. Um you need to make sure there's plenty of good oil in that bearing uh when you're come to a stop. So that that's important stuff. Yes. M [clears throat] ready. Yeah. Let's go.

Mr. Supervisor, I move to approve resolution 2025-12-09-105. of authorizing the Plymouth Township Police Department to purchase and upfit two new police vehicles not to exceed $150,000 out of the federal drug forfeiture fund. Second. Second by growth. Supervisor Kermy. Yes. Clerk Vorva. Yes. Trusty Buckley. Yes. Trusty Clinton. Yes. Treasure Dor Chevitz. Yes. Trusty Stewart. Yes. Trustee Growth. Yes. Motion carries. Number 14.

14 is non-represented employees. These are people that are not represented by a union. Uh these are recommendations that came up from our uh analysts, the Christine Graham and me. Um and I'm looking for your approval. In the past, we have not had direct approval like this. It just was done. Um, but it it's better to have transparency and it's also a requirement of of township law.

Supervisor Kermy, I appreciate the fact that it is transparent. I appreciate the fact that um something that you're not telling us because I came to this meeting prepared to say no except that I was going to say yes because it's not fair to the employees. you have initiated a performance review procedure which I did not know and that makes a big difference in how I feel about these races.

Well, the performance review is more of a coaching tool. I did not use that as a major [clears throat] consideration. Most of this is conference of western Wayne uh comparative data. So, you had asked that we have a performance review system. I did. So we we've done one um and uh it uh it has I don't know how successful it is yet. We we need I appreciate the effort. I just want to make that comment. I appreciate the effort.

Okay. I just want to make a comment that I uh in March when we uh approved a compromise increase for my deputy, we committed to revisiting re revisited it at the end of the year. Uh I I think my deputy contributes an enormous amount and uh he's one of the lowest paid uh he is the lowest paid nonrep person. What? Or he's second. He's making 83,000. Is that right? Yeah.

Yeah. We had intimated at the time when we did that that there was going to be a a um a change this time around. Yeah. Which we we could do that on the anniversary of March. We have time. Oh, okay. Why do we have to wait till March? It [clears throat] must be Rob. Can you adjust the speed the microphone number three? Yeah. I just think you need to be a little closer. Can you hear me better? Okay. [snorts] It's the cord is limited how far I can move the microphone. Be pulled out. Okay. Uh, so where was I?

Is your [clears throat] deputy on here? I'm not No, cuz that that's kind of a separate bag. Um, and I left it off because we I was planning to do that when we consider raises for um elected officials, which have been three years. Now uh remember that um the deputy treasurer was hired on November 20th of 2024 and we gave a a wage increase on in March of 2025. So my thinking was on an annual basis we would evaluate it. So that's why it was left off.

Yeah. But the difference was that uh in a number or some of these positions and I don't want to pick on PE individuals uh cuz this isn't about the individual but in some of these positions the the salary was increased coming in the door right that is uh and that didn't happen in the with the uh deputy uh uh deputy treasurer. Um, so these people that came in the door had increases from the prior position holder and mine didn't. And I just don't think he's being treated fairly. [snorts]

Well, he will be in March when you advocate for him. I think he's being paid the same as the clerk, deputy clerk. Yeah. I don't know what one has to do with the other. Well, that's just something that goes back several years, right? Historical. I know it's historical, but I don't know what one has to do with the other. So, I' I've heard you. I urge you to be patient and we'll work. We'll bring it forward in February. We don't We don't do that for the fire chief and the police chief. We don't do that for the No, we do. We don't They don't. Their wages aren't the same.

Oh, no. But they also have different responsibilities. Thank you. You just made my point. Well, see, the deputy the deputy clerk during election years, which is coming up, gets a uh a bonus a straight time for overtime. [snorts] And that's a special approval that we have to make every year. No, we've done every election year. Yeah, we've done it. But we have to approve we have to do it again. No, because it that was You mean it's already institutionalized? institutionalized for for election years. All right. And it's straight time. Jerry, remember back in 2016? Yes. When we won the election?

Yes. How much money did we paid? Do you remember? How much did we get paid? You and I. The answer is $11,000. 101, right? $101,000. and we agreed that we would not pay for the next that we just four years we wouldn't take any rate. So we paid $100,000 for the next four years, right? I'm just The whole point is it's been in the next look at the money now. It's going crazy. Yeah, it's absolutely going crazy. That's why we're going to need a new millage. That's what we're going to have to do. It's just it's just inevitable. We're spending too much money. Well, and we were spending what's necessary. It

didn't didn't used to have to be every single year. It could be once every two year, once every three year, but now it's somehow things that's changed. Every single year we have it at a bare minimum, 3% and it's just out of control. And don't forget, right, people get a 15% uh a 50% uh 401k as well. Yeah. That's a lot of money.

Yeah. Yeah. The unfortunate thing that happened and I know I know you appreciate this Mark and so does everybody else here. I mean the past the previous four years we had runaway inflation uh that really ate into everybody's you know 20%. you know, uh it really ate into everybody's income. And so, um I know we I don't think u the the electeds have had a raise in a couple three years. Three years. And so, uh uh that that may be that may be appropriate for for March. You think? I I would we need to talk about it. We need we need make our case to these people why we deserve more money or

whatever. It was spent three years and during that time uh uh I had to spend my own money to keep my job. [laughter] I know. But before you were a high paid treasure. Yeah. So So um I mean that as a joke. Yeah. I really do. I mean it as a joke. I knew she was joking. Yeah. I knew she was joking. the uh I mean I [clears throat] agree with with with Bob that we we should we should put this on a cycle where everyone's on the same cycle and um I but we are that's what this is except for the electives

and the deputies which have always been a special case. Well, that's because it's required by law that we vote on it, you know, and uh that so uh well, we can address that then if your plan is to do it in March, then in March we should address the fact that we want to change the term so that it is done at the same time every year from a payroll stand although that institutionalizes Yes. annual increases for not necessarily just that just that doesn't have to be the same amount, you know, it's it's something that but it's addressed at the same time. Yes, address it at the same time and then we have to make that argument to the public, you know. So,

so I I hope we can move beyond this and you have my word that we will evaluate it. And you're right, uh salaries are going up. Oddly enough, many of these raises were not met with a lot of happiness. So, um, it tells you that there's stronger and stronger demands out there.

Yes, there is. Well, we saw that when we were trying to find people in the finance department. I mean, we were running into uh we just weren't paying enough money to to attract quality people. So um it's it's the nature of what I described earlier today where I said you know our revenue is like this but our costs are going like that and that gap is going to eat up the fund balance in two years and it's just it's the nature of the business and u uh and it's just something that we're going to have to address u sooner is probably than later I think. Well, [clears throat] you have my commitment to manage as much as possible the cost side of the business to delay what appears to be thinking that a tax increase is inevitable.

I think a tax increase was planned last year. We're $1.3 million greater in wage and benefit costs 25 over 26. No, excuse me. 26 over 25. And that's going to happen in 27. and it's going to happen in 28. That's what I'm saying. It's going to be a couple million bucks and we don't have it. And so, uh, and those are contractual, uh, obligations. 75% of our cost is, uh, people people. And so, u, and most of those are under labor agreements.

Labor agreements. And so, that that see my beautiful graph. That's that's a true that's a true graph. And so, um, I in 27 and 28, you're looking at a tax increase. Otherwise, you're going to end up with a zero fund balance. So, I'm not ready to join surrounding communities yet, but what's I'm not giving up yet. Sure. Our costs are outpacing our revenue streams.

Well, part of unfortunately a lot of the new development, there's a lot going on. there's almost no zero revenue coming to us because it's going to pay back cleanup costs in infrastructure for the essentially subsidized form of development. So de uh so for example [clears throat] the brownfield

yeah brownfields uh but brownfield has been expanded uh with the new law that allows infrastructure. In the past it was only cleanup. So now it's grading interior roads and storm sewers can all be put into a brownfield. So it's almost about 1/3 to 1/ half of the recovery is going to clean up and the remainder is for these infrastructure things. But all the you're right, all these homes being built over in the Elks Club, the township's not going to see any benefit out of that for 24 years or anybody else other than is it school debt is the only one

school debt is [clears throat] the only one that gets whole. Yeah, I [snorts] think state education, but we have a lot of nice homes being built in Muddy Meadows that where we're gaining a lot of tax increases that area. Yeah, [snorts] it takes a while for that engine to move forward, but I'm working daily to try to work to control grass. That's in my DNA. That was my training in the auto industry and uh I'm trying to apply some of that here. Mr. Supervisor, I move to approve the proposed pay increases for non-represented employees effective the first pay period of 2026. That's so we don't have to do the math, right?

Second. Second by trustee growth. Clerk Forva, yes. Tre, uh, Supervisor Kermy, yes. Trusty Buckley, yes. Trusty Clinton, yes. Treasure Dor Chevitz, yes. Trusty Stewart, yes. Trusty Growth, yes. Motion carries. And now Thank you. And now um Oh, now we have tea up the What do we call the item is it's a foyer appeal. It's appeal for of denial. Now on their desk there was this this is the attorney's opinion. Is that what that No, this is Jerry Vorba's opinion respect. Well, yeah. I mean, he helped me with it. So, all right.

Oh, did I do I need to pass these out? Am I missing? They were on our They were on our desk. We had them. Yeah. Here. I got a whole bunch of extra copies, I think. Oh, you're lucky. Right here. I've got I got extra copies here. Like, there's one more. You want me to tee it up or Thank you. Yeah, we need to have somebody succinctly tee this up. A uh only one.

Okay, Mr. Supervisor and everybody in the audience, a a a gentleman uh Mr. Matthew Wilk. He's an attorney uh out of Northville. U requested a list of the recipients of email addresses used when the township sends in per periodic newsletters. So we have a goal e-news and we send those out. Constant contact is our contract. Exactly. And so uh we we do that to communicate with the public. Well, when when they volunteer for this, they didn't volunteer like you would in a commercial aspect. saying, "Hey, you give us the right to use your email if you're going to do this and we can send you all these ads." Well, the people didn't sign up for that. You know, this is just purely uh us giving them information that is as useful to them as as it responds to the government here. And they did not uh designate that they wanted their their information used any other way uh commercial or for politics or or anything. And so this person had did did that. We denied it based on privacy uh um uh laws and um Mr. Wilk had noted that you know we give them information about voters and we do but we don't give them their telephone numbers. We don't give them their emails. We don't give them their date of birth. We give them their age because we can do that. We do what the state says. And so it's about privacy. We don't give their driver's license number. we don't give them their social security number. So, it's a it's a matter of privacy. And I think that the um I'm I'm asking that this be uh his appeal be denied and for the reasons uh uh that are written here um on this uh document.

I think there's an expectation if you opt into these lists that uh the township is not going to share your email address. Uh I can't imagine I would think anybody that you asked would would uh agree with that statement. Um I don't I think we should deny this and if uh he takes us to court and it's ruled against and they rule ruled against us then we should ask for 60 days to let to give [clears throat] the community an opportunity to opt out. Sure. Um and and then that would be the death of the e news e newsletter.

Yeah. Um that' be unfortunate. Yeah. Uh cuz I I know that uh when I've purchased email lists before and used those in political campaigns, that's that pisses people off. Um and I would get emails, where'd you get my where did you get my email address from? Um, so I'm I'm in favor of denying this uh appeal. is I'd like to hear from anybody else and then in the end the attorney and then in the audience

I simply want to state that I don't have a problem with not allowing it provided that there is some provision somewhere that absolutely guarantees all of us that no elected officials who have access to that are utilizing it. Oh absolutely because if that's being utilized then there we don't even need to be talking about this. You're right. I'm not using it. But I don't know what happened before me. No. Can't you can't tell. Yeah. But but I have access to all kinds of information and I don't use it because it's not allowed. And so I just want to be sure that we protect the residents rights to privacy if we're going to take

I get to see people's phone number, their emails, their their date of birth, uh their driver's license number, their social security numbers because I register people to vote. And so uh um it's important that we have that information because the way the law is structured for elections, if people um forget to sign their their ballots or they we can't recognize it, we need to get a hold of them and we have by law we have to try to contact them. So So when you elect your representatives, you need to keep in mind the character of the person you're representing and whether or not they're going to take advantage of these things. That's a tall order. It is, but that's the way it should be.

We collect uh on on the slip when you submit your taxes. Now, there's a field for phone number and we collect phone numbers and I wouldn't think of using those for any other purpose. Uh, but it's been a big help for us because somebody sends in a check and they forgot to sign it and we would have somebody, you know, searching the internet, uh, going over to the clerk's office to try to find a phone number and it was, you know, so they so that we could call them and they could come in and sign their check. Otherwise, if we mailed it back to them, then they it would be late when it was returned. And the same thing applies to the clerk's office because when you when they fill out um requests for absentee ballots, they provide that personal information

with the understanding that it will only be utilized to contact them if there's a problem with their their forms or their ballot. Yeah. And and the and the rule from the Secretary of State is that you can't give it out, right?

Okay. So, let's hear from the attorney. Okay. The request in this case was simply a list of the recipient email addresses used when the township sends its periodic newsletters. I recommended that the clerk issue a denial of the the request based on the court appeal court of appeals decision in Rage versus the city of Romulus. In that case, the court noted that section 3 sub1 sub a of foya provides that a public body may exempt from disclosure information of a personal nature if public disclosure of the information would constitute a clearly unwarranted invasion of the individual's privacy. This exemption has two prongs. Under the first prong of the privacy exemption, information is of a personal nature if it is intimate, embarrassing, private, or confidential. Those are in the disjunctive, not the conjunctive. Under the second prong, the question is whether the public disclosure of information would constitute a clearly unwarranted invasion of the person's privacy. What the court of appeals ruled in the Ratage case was [clears throat] we conclude that personal information such as home addresses, dates of birth and telephone numbers are exempt from disclosure under FOYA. Home addresses, dates of birth, and telephone numbers typically constitute information of a personal nature within the meaning of the privacy exemption. For purposes of the second prong, the Supreme Court has held that the disclosure of such information would re reveal little or nothing about a government agency's conduct, nor would it further the stated policy under gearing the Michigan FOYA. By extension of telephone numbers and home addresses, email addresses would be included within that exemption. And I recommend that the board uphold the denial.

All right. So any comments from the audience on this subject?

Yes, I did. Uh Mary Tavar Rozi uh 46649 Arboritum Circle. Um I did uh wait to the appropriate time to make this comment. I just want that noted for the record as well. Could you speak up?

Um, [clears throat] yes, happy to. Um, I'm I applaud the decision to um to uphold [clears throat] the appeal or, you know, and and deny the release of this information. When it came to the attention to many of us in the community that um this request had been made and unfortunately we had to find out from social media because the um the Foye report, which I have a copy of here from the clerk, um is extremely opaque. Um, six of the 14 requests for this past month have no name of the requesttor. 10 of the 14 say that the request is for something called other. So, it's pretty useless for the citizens to know what's been requested and I would ask that that be something that be addressed in the future and that we don't have to find out about these FOYA uh controversies through social media. Um the um the issue that I have about this release is that um screenshots which I've also taken from the website for the e newswsletter and the form to sign up do not warn the signer and the subscriber that their email could be shared with any outside entity. In fact, the sign up form specifically states that you are only consenting to receive marketing emails from Plymouth Township. Period. And there is no option to opt out from uh the release of information to other third parties and your only recourse would be to unsubscribe after the fact. Now, most subscription services, in fact, the ba vast majority these days due to cyber security and other concerns have an opt out feature already. And no matter how this shakes out and who ends up suing who, um, I really think that you need to update these forms, that you need to make clear whether or not the information could be subject to FOYA and released and to give people the

opportunity to opt out of having this uh, information released, this personal information, because your name is attached to this in the sign up form, attached to your email address. So if uh the um outside uh person, Mr. Wilks, was successful in this request, he would have our both our name and our personal email, which is frankly not what any of us would have signed up for. So I I urge the commission to stand firm on this and seriously think about updating your forms to reflect what goes on currently in society with subscriber lists. Thank you.

Thank you. So to clarify, we would have you're recommending that we consider an a box that you checked that would allow you to opt out of that data being shared of of my data being shared. Correct. I don't I mean I'm not an attorney so I don't know again if FO if FOYA laws trump that. um you know it is but

but but I would say just to be on the safe side you know if you're asking to to collect personal information for somebody to get a benefit from the township such as you know being able to get an e newsletter um that they be um they be confident in the fact that they've checked off to say I don't want to hear anything from anybody through my email except for you the township of doesn't already say that not what Thank you. It kind of says it says that, but the opt out thing anyway, it's something we need to investigate. Yeah. Uh so that we're more protected uh or [clears throat] people are more protected. Yes.

My biggest concern about this whole thing is the leaks. Somehow things are being leaked. There's no leak. Stop, Jerry. It's my turn to talk. Stop. It's my turn to talk. Okay Jerry, wait a minute. And then characterizing it is something that's not true. Something's the perception is a leak. Figure out why. I don't know where it's coming from. Stop. Back up and start over again. I didn't hear you. I was talking over you.

I'm concerned about some leaks that are coming out of this building and they're getting to Kurt Heisy and he's trashing me. He's trashing everyone. He's trashing not only you, Mr. Kermit, other members of this board. several of you in fact and it's unacceptable the leaks that are coming out of this building and then I I got in something else I picked up here I got to give me a second here if I can find two more minutes

okay [snorts] a private this I don't know what this Mr. Bennett, but I I just read this. Somebody sent it to me. Not a lawyer, a a lady friend of mine. Yes, a private citizen can legal legally use FOYA for Michigan's equivalent to request email list from township, especially if it's a public record used for government functions. But you'd have to use your state's FOYA, Michigan, not the federal FOYA. Um, I'm having a hard time seeing this. I'm sorry. And expect potential re reductions for personal privacy. That's not what I read earlier. Anyways,

and our lawyer has addressed that. Pardon? Our lawyer has addressed that. Okay. Thank you. Thanks. So, you have something to say about leaks or

Yeah, it's not a leak. It's public information. Um, and nobody on this board gives up their fundamental right uh to free speech. And so if there's public information that is public, it can be discussed amongst ourselves. It can be discussed with anybody that is a constituent. I could call Putin if I want to and tell him something. So uh I have first amendment rights. It's not a leak to discuss public information that is public knowledge and it's not protected and it's not disclosing something that shouldn't be disclosed. Like I said, I don't disclose people's personal information and it's it's awful rich coming from a person who used the internet to smear the out of me and Kurt Heisy. So, it's awful rich.

I don't think we should be talking about Clean it up. Yeah, let's clean it up. So, I'm not putting up with vulgarity. Oh, shut up. Repeated vulgarity. So, we we have a Jerry, we have a red light and a boundary. Yeah. All right. Otherwise, you're complicit with Bulgarity. So, I did by the bell. Yeah. [clears throat] All right. So, we need to figure out in the end how we want to vote on this. Uh it appears that the recommendation from council is to deny it. People have other opinions that are in the public. So, moved. So, move to deny. Sam.

Well, we got to make the motion. Do you want to make the motion or I make the motion? The motion should be to uphold the denial. Mr. Supervisor, I move to uphold the denial for this FOYA denial. It's moved by me. Do we have a second? Second. Second by Nor Chevitz. Clerk Forv. Yes. Supervisor Kermy. Yes. Trusty Buckley. Yes. Trusty Clinton? Yes. Treasury Shabitz. Yes. Trusty Stewart. Yes. Trusty Growth.

And Trustee Growth says yes. And reminds everyone that things should come be to the board before they go everywhere else. If if it's a board issue, it belongs. But it's not required by law. It's not required by law. A courtesy. All of you guys got it. You got the same thing [clears throat] that I got. I didn't really I didn't notice it until right about the time I noticed that it was on social media. But it was sent to all of us and I was making the agenda. It was it was sent to us all at the same time. No one was denied the information. Okay. It was sent on Thursday or Friday? Friday morning? Friday morning.

No, I didn't see it. All right. So, did we How' the vote go? It h it it passed 100% to deny to uphold denial. Okay. Is that all of our agenda items? And then did we forget anything? Anybody? No, we did a great job. Okay. So, uh now it's time for [snorts] uh comments on anything. You can say anything to me you want. [clears throat] As long as there's no vulgarities. Are you talking to the board or to the res? To the residents. Okay. on any agenda item, agenda item or non-aggenda item or whatever blows your hair back. Is it just comments to you? No. To the board.

All right. All right. So, my comment or question really is um several meetings ago, I believe it was late summer, um the uh clerk Vorva, you made a comment about we are going to be consolidating the number of precincts from 12 to some number. I don't know if you were specific about the number, which obviously would also necessitate precinct uh voting location changes. Um when are we going to get that information? Because there's a lot of planning going into the 2026 election that's already started and a lot of us are sort of in pause because we don't know how many precincts, where precincts, etc.

We would have sent it out earlier because they were talking about changing the date of the election. That has not happened. So our our election date is going to be August and November. Some of the concern is if you send it out too soon, are people going to forget? You want to get it a little bit closer to the election time where people are are paying attention. But we're going to send out in the newsletter saying this is going to happen and we're going to be changing 12 precincts to six. And some of the locations will be different. Not all of them. Some of the places will have two pre two of the old precincts will become one like precinct one was St. Kenneth precinct 2 was the the uh senior citizen uh center on that's going to be merged that's going to be merged to one and it's going to be at St. Kenneth. So, I'll notify the everybody. I have to tell everybody with a new voter registration card that you will be getting and that will include also the changes for the Senate districts that happened by the court uh mandated those changes. So, I wanted to consolidate both of those things into one mailing if I can just to save save money. But yeah, you'll be notified by virtue of uh um the e-news, you'll be notified by our newsletter, and you will receive a new voter registration card telling you who your reps are, what districts that you vote for, for state senate, for for representative, uh and for uh for for county commissioner. Now, two of the districts are going to have um split districts because when they changed the districts for the

state rep, part of the before the um state rep was all Plymouth Township was one state rep. Now there's two. And the same thing happened with the county commission. There's two now. And so there'll be two precincts where there'll be two different state reps you'll vote for. there'll be different ballots. Okay? And then same thing for the county commissioner. So, two of those districts will have that aspect of it, but you'll be informed of it because you'll be on your registration when you go to vote. You'll get the right ballot. Could you give us any idea time when we're going to hear these?

Sure. In in the He already knows where they are, right? I I know basically Yeah. Who who is we? The the people. The the residents. Okay. You're not in the election or politics business. I I'm a res. Yeah. Sure. Sure. It It's It's coming. I was going to do it before when we thought that the election was going to be moved up to May or June. Now, it's not until August. [snorts]

So, there's time. So, there's time. So, we want it fresh in everybody's mind. But probably in February, you'll be getting a notice from me. And because what's going to happen once I send those notices out, anybody who who who uh has moved or is no longer there, all those are going to come back to me and it's going to require a lot of work to um So the answer to the question though is you expect to have uh the the new precincts drawn by February. Yes. And

and and reg and registration cards go out. And in case you don't know it, the state legislature was considering moving the primary, the August primary election to May. And that's part of what he's talking about. It's back to August. So that makes a difference, too. But thank you for your concern and we'll make sure that everyone gets that out there. I'll contact the newspapers and so that in the news magazines, the two you get out there, The Rock and the Plymouth, I'll contact them. I'll put an article in it. So, I'll try to get that information out because it's going to cost tens of thousands [clears throat] of dollars to mail that those cards out

and then when I get the cards back that they moved, I'm required by law to mail them again to make sure our issue is or is you ain't still there, you know, and then in order to to remove people from the voter roles. So, it's a lot of work, but thank you. Okay. Uh, hi. I just came back up because uh the uh what is your name again? Tom Leighton. Okay. Live on Hines Court on the Culdeac. The reason I came back up is because everybody who signed that petition that I gave you guys copies of. Yep. Uh wanted me to have their three minutes so I could explain everything. But that's ridiculous.

And it doesn't work that way.

Didn't want to come up here either. But in regards to that, the petition basically just is asking for you guys to take into consideration taking us off that system. There's no reason why we should be put on a system that is I mean it's a large portion of downtown Plymouth and it's all the waste and it comes through our neighborhood and it doesn't we don't need to be tied to it to get it vented properly and I know it's going to cost as Chuck brought up and so did Patrick but health and safety shouldn't have a dollar amount on it. That's all I have to say.

Thank you. Thank you. Anyone else have a comment? Open mic. All right, we have a taker's back. All I can say is I hope we have some decency and this stuff stops being shared. It's outrageous. Thank you. I think it's unfortunate that it's happening. I agree with you there. Well, I think we're getting some feedback about the FOYA monthly reports um that uh

and again I've been watching for a while. I think the employees who brought this forward [clears throat] were concerned with the privacy issue that we were talking about. Um they were afraid that retaliation retaliation. Right. Right. Retaliation in the police department is where it originated. Yeah. And it's not a criticism. It's just a statement of fact and it's an issue of board policy versus um I mean we have to know exactly [clears throat] what we want to be shared. But what do we do now? Well, I guess what is the next step? Go back to the old format. We probably need to put it on revert to the old format. I don't know. Or put it on the agenda for discussion. It's a board decision. Just go back to the old format.

Your old format for clerk's office for police. Yeah, the same. My concern is no, it should be the same for both. Well, the the answer that came from the employees was that no one else does this. No, everyone does what we're doing now. No one exposes it and we are being foolish and bad people are going to use it to their advantage. And I am going to repeat what our attorney has already spelled out. It is a board decision. Well, and who are the employees? In the clerk's office? No, it was in the police department.

They were concerned cuz sometimes people make police reports against people and then someone can foyer that to find out, oh, you know, my boyfriend or my ex-boyfriend or girlfriend, you know, retaliate and then retaliate against them. So, they're trying to sh it's like a shield law. Oh, you know, in in the in in the clerk's department, there's shield laws for voters. There's some voters that you can't disclose their right their their um um information, their address. Oh, because they're they're they're under protection. Yes, exactly. But we're subject to foil laws.

We as a board are subject to foil laws and we so we can't be worrying about those kind of things if it if it violates what our responsibility is. Well, the professional organization that manages records, I forgot the name of it, uh, recommends doing it the way it's being done, redacted. Yes. But we just talked to our attorney. Yeah. All right. So, this will take some further plowing of the field to get the right answer again. Chuck, can I say there was Yeah. Come come up here or or or or or your speaker.

Oh, yeah. You got the speaker already. You got the microphone. I'll come up. Um, yeah, there was significant research done. I mean, it wasn't just I mean, we're an employee. It's an employee. You guys shared it with me is an expert in Foye. She's had as much training as, you know, maybe not as much as Jerry, but probably [snorts] significant amount um close to his. Um, significant research is done. I could certainly bring Cindy in here and she could explain the research that she did uh when we made that decision. I that would be my recommendation to the board. We would appreciate that. Okay. So, we're going to work this issue more [clears throat]

and hopefully come up with an optimum answer, which I don't know what the silver bullet is yet. All right, John Stewart, any comments? Yes. Merry Christmas. I want to thank you for the opportunity to serve. It's Christmas Eve two weeks from tomorrow. [sighs]

Trustee Growth and I are celebrating a 25th anniversary. I came to her regarding my recount on my state rep race where I had won by 81 votes. She promptly pulled out a large white notebook three- ring binder and she said, "We're going to follow the rules. right down the the list from A to Z. Uh, I drove to Lancing and Chris Thomas told me there's never been a recount in Michigan that has changed more than a dozen votes. We also have an absolute gentleman, state rep, and former clerk from Westland here tonight, my friend Richard Leblanc. I pity and my godspeed to the chief of police and our fire chief. The next 60 days, highest occurrence of drunk driving, assaults, domestic violence, which will peak on traditionally in the last few years on Super Bowl Sunday, which is February 8th this year, just 60 days away. domestic violence, sexual and vulgar verbal assaults. [snorts] So I I I Godspeed for both of you. Dry trees ignite like that. Slip and falls happen like that. The next 60 days are all important. And I ask the people to be kind and courteous and to control your vocabulary because words matter. Thank you very much and good night. [snorts]

I just want to say merry Christmas to everyone. Thanks for coming out tonight and um we appreciate having you here again. Merry Christmas to everyone. Happy new year and we'll see you in January at in meetings. [clears throat] Happy holidays and happy new year. Uh and we're just raking in the cash cuz uh this is the time of year that uh uh the township taxes are paid. So we got about a thousand that have paid already. Um that's it. Jen.

Yeah, I'll just briefly touch on the veterans commission. It was uh put out that we have a meeting on Monday, but I had already sent on information to um the clerk's office cancelling that meeting. So, sorry uh that it was posted on the e newsletter, but there indeed will not be we don't have anything on the agenda. Um, but I do have good news to report that our commissioners went to USA Hockey and uh held a fundraiser there called Chucka Puck and we raised uh $500 for our commission. And so we are self-funded and very excited to see what we can do this next year. And with that, merry Christmas. Great to see you all.

I'm all set. Okay, I have a few things. Uh January 7th at 6:30 is our joint planning commission board of trustees meeting and the primary topic will be the master plan. January 7th 6:30. Uh you received a notice request a meeting notice on that and I think some of you have replied that you will be there. I think everybody's going to be there except Bob Dor Chevitz.

Um December 15th, that's Monday coming up. You're invited to a potluck here at Township Hall. You got a signup sheet if you want to come. [laughter] You signed up noon to two. Um ESCI, our consultant for fire is working uh to get data from us uploaded. So they really haven't done any analysis work. But the uh fire chief is uh busy getting data uh uploaded to their website uh so that they can begin the analysis. Um we have converted to a new website domain. We are.gov now but the old emails will operate for maybe years and our uh website searches are all being redirected. So redirecting is going on. Um we will eventually go it's soft right now a soft change and we're doing this um predominantly for security and election integrity.

Yes. Right. Yes. Um.gov [clears throat] versus.org that we have today uh is.gov is more reli secure and reliable. [laughter] uh CISA focuses on.gov. Are you we getting new business cards with not initially right now? We're just going to use my recommendation is use an exhaust for now, but we will convert maybe when we reprint we'll put if somebody thinks we should put a QR code on the back side or we should put our uh website address on the front side or something. We'll think of something to standardize.

Well, I would definitely cut cost because I had a box like this big and I think I've used this many. Yeah. So, buy a fewer number. Not that popular. Yeah, [laughter] by our fewer number domain name. So I agree. Um Bob has indicated that he would like to step down from the planning commission. So if anybody is interested, [clears throat] please talk to me. Talk to me. [cough and laughter] So um we have to by law have someone from the township board as a representative on the planning commission. He's staying, but he would like to opt out.

He's done it for a long time, right? Yeah. Long time. Got a lot of joke. Uh, all right. Merry Christmas. Hopefully next year we'll see greater and better things. Mr. Supervisor, I move for adjournment. Second. All in favor? Hi. Sure.