Pc Meeting - Regular Meeting

Calling to order the City of Plymouth's Planning Commission meeting, regular meeting for Thursday, July 16th, 2026. We're starting at 630. Everything okay over there? All right. All right. Members of the public not attending in person may submit written public comment prior to the meeting by emailing your comment to the planning clerk at jsmith at cityofplymouth.org before 3.30 p.m. on the day of the meeting. Emailed public comments will be distributed to the commission and made part of the official record. This meeting is online, correct? It's meeting ID 979-9133-5356 and the passcode is 083583 and there's a Zoom link also available on the agenda. Those are there on every agenda if anybody needs it. This meeting will be recorded. Council chambers are wheelchair accessible. Special accommodations may be requested by contacting the planning clerk 72 hours in advance of the meeting. Please silence all your cell phones and similar devices. And I'd like a roll call, please.

Commissioner East? Here. Commissioner Malcolm?

Present.

Commissioner Mickelson?

Here.

Vice Chair Klaproth?

Here.

Chair Sullivan?

Here.

Thank you. We have a quorum.

Excellent. All right. Let's stand and salute the flag.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Great. Thank you. All right. Number two on the agenda is approval of the Planning Commission regular meeting agenda for this meeting, which is July 16th, 2026. Is there any public comment on this Planning Commission agenda? All right. And any written public comment? And can I get a motion to approve the agenda as presented?

Make a motion to approve the agenda as presented.

I'll make a second.

Commissioner East? Yeah. Yes. Commissioner Malcolm?

Yes.

Commissioner Mickelson?

Yes.

Vice Chair Klaproth?

Yes.

Chair Sullivan?

Yes.

Thank you. Motion passes.

Great. On to number three, public comment. Under provisions of the government code, citizens wishing to address the commission for any matter not on the agenda may do so at this time by completing and submitting a speaker submittal form to the planning clerk or following the instructions noted on this agenda. Speakers will be called by the chair at a point on the agenda when the item will be heard. Speakers should keep the comments to three minutes or less. and state their name and community of residence. Under provisions of the California Government Code, the Commission is prohibited from materially discussing or taking action on any item not on the agenda unless it can be demonstrated to be of an emergency nature or an urgent need to take immediate action that arose after posting the agenda. Is there anyone in City Hall that would like to make a public comment about anything that's not on the agenda, so anything that's not listed on this agenda? All right. Great. And next, number four, we have presentations and appointments. And 4.1 is selection of a new planning commission chair and vice chair. So I've been doing it about a year and a half, I guess. Anybody else interested? Vice chair? Chair?

I respectfully decline. I think my time before Mike and yourself, we had an extended period after COVID. So I would like to give that up to somebody else who may be interested.

I also decline.

I'll get in there beforehand.

I decline as well.

All right, I will hang in there for the remainder of the year. How about that? If you don't want to, Mickey, okay, I'll hang in there for the remainder of the year. How about a vice chair?

I'll volunteer for the vice chair.

All right, so things are going to stand as they were apparently for the remainder of 2026. Is there anyone who has any comment on this at all? No? All right. Do we need a motion on that to approve the new?

Typically, when you would have a nomination process, but since you're just deciding to stay, then I don't think it doesn't need one.

Okay, great. Sounds good. We'll move on. We're moving through this agenda quick. Great. Let's move on to number five, consent calendar items. All matters listed under the consent calendar are to be considered routine and will be enacted by one motion. If discussion is required, that particular item will be removed from the consent calendar and will be considered separately. So first is 5.1, which is approval of the Planning Commission regular meeting minutes from May 21st, which was the last meeting. Is there any discussion on that? Any public comment on those last minutes? All right. Can we get a motion to approve?

I move we approve the Planning Commission regular meeting minutes of May 21st, 2026. Second.

And a roll call vote.

Commissioner East? Yes. Commissioner Malcolm?

Yes.

Commissioner Klaproth?

Yes.

Vice Chair Mickelson?

Yes.

And Chair Sullivan?

I'm going to abstain as I wasn't there and I haven't actually watched the entire thing, so I'm going to abstain.

Thank you. Motion passes.

All right, on to number six, public hearings. 6.1 is the Pokerville Market New Gasoline Service Station at 18170 State Highway 49. It's a use permit and major design review application, PA 2025-16. So we'll hold a public hearing on that and receive public testimony, review, and discuss. So go ahead, Erica.

Are you pulling it off? Okay. Sorry. The project before you requires two different permit types tonight. So we have the major design review, and that is for the exterior modifications, landscaping, the gas pumps, the gas canopy, removal of an existing solar canopy. And then we also have a conditional use permit, which is required. An administrative use permit is required for gasoline sales. This, since we do have the major design review, the administrative use permit got turned into a conditional use permit. So both matters can be before you tonight. The project is located at the existing Pokerville Market, which is an existing developed site. There is the grocery store, a number of solar canopies. There's an existing parking lot. There's limited landscaping. There is a recycling services located on the side of the property. Access existing is off of Highway 49. and will continue to be off Highway 49. The new gas station will be located within the existing parking lot. It will remove some parking spaces, but even once completed, they're still adequate based on municipal code requirements to accommodate the existing grocery store. No parking spaces are required for a gas station for the pumps. The existing entrance off Highway 49 was reviewed by Caltrans, as well as the entirety of the project, because they do access Highway 49. And so anytime we have a project that does have direct access onto Highway 49, we invite comments from Caltrans. They did comment on this. And they do have one minor concern, which is the turning into the site from trucks. There's the potential that it could Clip the side of Highway 49 and so sorry, the side of the entrance. And so to make sure that there are no there's no damage, they've requested that it be slightly modified to allow for the truck turning. That's included as a condition of approval. The onsite circulation, the location of the tanks, and all the other improvements onsite were reviewed by both our engineering department and our fire prevention officer. And any comments that they had or concerns were included as conditions of approval, such as there is a condition of approval that requires a trash enclosure now to serve the site.

We can't hear you.

Oh, okay. This is an example of the canopy over the proposed gasoline tanks or the gasoline service area. And then one addition to the site, which is appropriate to ask for at this point because they are asking for a modification to the site, is to have some landscaping at the site which complies with our zoning ordinance. Our zoning ordinance does require landscaping on the sides as well as the frontage of any property, and that's in our code. And with this improvement, we will get some landscaping at the site that does... move towards compliance with the code obviously within the center of the site they're not proposing anything where it would be appropriate to ask them to remove all the parking to add some landscaping and there are existing solar canopies which would make it difficult but at this point it is appropriate to require it around the site because there is adequate room and they can do so. With the addition of the landscaping, it brings them into compliance with their zoning ordinance, and they have proposed it as well. There are a few minor conditions of approval related to landscaping. One is the requirement that they follow WELA, which is the Water Efficient Landscape Ordinance. That's a state ordinance that is required for certain projects to comply with. And there's a few other that they do need to comply with, and that comes with final landscaping plans. It's only preliminary at this stage. Obviously, they don't have irrigations. I'll go back to this for a second. There is a proposed new sign located at State Highway 49. They are required to have gasoline signage that displays the price that is a state requirement. There is a condition of approval in there. I'm asking them to apply for an administrative sign permit so we can have that under a separate permit. And that will just be done at staff level. But a copy of the monument sign or the elevation of the monument sign is included within the project plans. One other thing of note is that they are proposing a 24-hour operation, so there are conditions of approval included within the conditional use permit resolution that require an attendant be on site. The reason we need an attendant on site is that the Pokerville market closes quite early. If the gas station operations continue, we want to ensure that there is no loitering, if there was an accidental spill, we need someone on site to be able to manage that. And any other concern that could arise leaving the site unattended wouldn't be appropriate in this community. Under CEQA, this project is exempt under existing facilities due to the fact that the site is already developed. There's also an infill exemption that they could qualify for, but there are two exemptions that they could qualify for under CEQA. There's an existing site, there's an existing development on the site, the site is under five acres, the site is surrounded by urban uses, And the fact that it is a gas station doesn't automatically trigger CEQA. Furthermore, it's under the square footage threshold under VMT, but VMT is exempt when there is an exemption from CEQA for the project. So the fact that it is a gas station doesn't automatically trigger CEQA. And in fact, the courts have ruled that gas stations can apply for the exemptions under CEQA. There is a big case that was in 2021, I believe, over Costco gas station, and the courts upheld that the existing facilities exemption was valid for gas stations. So there are your standard options. You can select any one of them. You can approve the minor design review and conditional use permit. You could modify the resolution in any way that you chose to do so. You could continue the public hearing if there was additional information that you required from staff or the applicant, or you can deny the applications before you. That concludes my presentation. I'd be happy to answer any questions that you have.

Just to confirm, you said that the approval would be Including to have an attendant on site?

That's within the conditions of approval, yeah.

Is that a 24-hour?

Because they are requesting 24 hours. Now, again, this is under your purview, so you could discuss the hours with the applicant if you're concerned, but that is what they have requested. And even if their hours were, let's say, until 11, the Pokerville does close earlier than that, and it would be appropriate to have someone on site, even for that gap.

Okay, so the applicants agreed to that requirement.

they were provided the conditions of approval okay yep and i just noticed in in the staff report it refers to attachment one uh number eight of the conditional use permit talking about that attendant is actually for those of you following along it's actually an attachment two so it looks like there was a typo there so that's the second option of a resolution there um

Yeah, so I was reading through it, and it kind of read that there was going to be a convenience store, and there would always be an attendant there 24 hours. And then it said in addition to that, there would also have to be an attendant for the market. But that's the way I read it. So I just wanted to clarify, it doesn't need two people, one for the market. It's just the one person for the convenience store that will be open, as it stated, 24 hours anyways, along with the gas station.

So there's no convenience store. There's just the existing market. No additional, let's say, retail is proposed. So during the day, obviously, if there's a problem, there are people on site. You could go into Pokerville. I don't know. I accidentally drove off the gas pump or whatever the case may be. But once Pokerville market is closed, we need someone available. So it needs to be someone that's accessible online.

um to both check the site and accessible for concerns if anything happens throughout the operation so once the market gets closed then there's someone else that needs to be on site it does say in here that they're going to take the old pharmacy space which is vacant inside their store and convert that into a convenience store still a market it's still inside the yeah right but it looks like the plans are to have that guys from the rest of the market so that could be open and when the market is closed if they wanted to propose that yes

that what's being proposed or i i didn't get that impression but they're here and they could answer that better than me okay and i'm sure i read this but i just want to just clarification they're going to be above ground gas tanks thank you i'm sorry about that i'll talk a little louder yeah

All right. Well, and just to confirm my reading of everything, in that section, that highway commercial section that that is in, right, with both the general plan overlay and the zoning includes gas stations, correct? And it calls out specific things that can be in highway commercial.

Yes. Gasoline sales, which is what we've termed it, is allowed with an administrative use permit.

So in other words, this could have just gone through the front office and never come to us?

It could have.

Okay. Interesting. One more question around the entrance. So the entrance is going to be modified a bit, it sounds like.

Slightly modified so that the turning radius, the trucks aren't clipping that curve.

A little curve.

Mm-hmm.

And is there any requirement for any more traffic studies or counts or anything? Because I know that that's a tough parking lot to get out of in and out of anyways already. And is this going to increase the traffic into the parking lot appreciably and make it so that it's even tougher to get out and requiring stack lanes and other things? Or is that basically totally in Caltrans' purview or not?

So anything on Highway 49, of course, is within Caltrans' purview. and caltrans the only concern they had was the one that we've discussed engineering looked at the circulation on the site and had no concerns as well as fire looked at the circulation on site and had no concerns so in this case there was nothing to trigger the need for what i think you're referring to as more of an on-site circulation review maybe off-site but again because they don't Because there is the exemption available to them under CEQA, it doesn't require them to automatically submit a VMT. A VMT for a project this size, they would be – there are square footage limits where you would require – could require a VMT. They'd most likely be exempt out of that based on the size alone, and gas station VMT – tends to not produce, let's say, significant impacts when looking at BMT. In the old days when we looked at LOS, level of service, that could be different. But again, with a six-pump gas station on an existing site with the amount of parking that we have, you could interpret that there could be a reduction theoretically in trips. Right. Again, um, if Caltrans had come up with any sort of concern, they would have let us know right away.

And speaking of other agencies, this was submitted to the sheriff and they didn't have any comment.

And this also went to, um, environmental health.

Okay, great. All right. Um, First, let's move on to, do you guys have anything else at this point? I'm sure there's going to be more to talk about when we hear more, but we did just, we just had the one public comment from Steve Gerritsen, is that correct? And Steve's here, right? Yep. So, all right. So this will be entered as part of the record, but I'm sure you're going to speak about it or it's, you know, some of the concerns in here are the traffic, traffic traffic pedestrians 24 hour operations long term parking long term planning planning commissions responsibility sequel review additional studies and a conclusion so that'll be in the record I'm sure you're going to talk about it thank you for that there are many of the same concerns that we have and questions we have are in there as well so thank you for submitting that I appreciate it was there anything else that was turned in written comment wise okay All right. So we'll start with public comment. I think it's probably prudent to start with the applicant. Yeah, let's start with the applicant. Come on up. And when you get up there, turn on the microphone and state who you are.

Hello, I'm Harry Zeng. I own and run the Pokerbill Market. Thank you for putting this together so we could present our project. Pokerville Market, I bought it less than a year ago. But in this less than a year, the things that I have learned, this gas station is nothing new. This has been, every previous owner before me has tried to put it together over here. Every vendor that I have brought in, whether it's Chevron or 76, they have been to this property over four or five times. It's been talked about. This is my personal experience, and standing over here, I wish I had paid more attention in my speech 101 class in community college, and I would have taken notes. But everything I'm going to say is from the heart. So the things that this market, it's huge for the small community that is over here. When I took over this store, half of the shelves were empty. The building was neglected. It wasn't clean. The thing is that Pokerbill doesn't have enough traffic. So the way we see traffic is from two different angles. One is from the owner's perspective, and the other is customer. If I'm a customer, I like to shop when there's nobody at the store, if I was to go somewhere, right? I don't want to run into people. But as an owner, I don't see there's enough traffic for us. We are not doing the volume that we need to be doing to keep the lights on. Grocery has seen a spike in over 18% ever since that I have joined. Meat has gone up. Milk has gone up. And I'm not trying to raise the margin on grocery. I'm trying to bring in more volume. The way I'm doing it is when I took over the store, we had 22 employees. Right now I have 31. So even though the odds are against me to add more employees, I'm doing it so that the customer sees that there's an extra cashier in the evening when it's busy. So those are the things that if I need to sustain those calls, I need to bring in more traffic. The traffic, I'm not trying to make money off gas station, off selling gas. It's for whoever is coming for gas, maybe they'll run quickly inside and grab something. If I was to partner with Chevron, I get a better rate on Frito-Lays, on Coca-Colas, on Pepsis. I'm going to pass over the discount that I'm going to get, the volume discount, being part of a bigger company. Right now, the cost that I pay, it's cheaper for me to go get stuff from Costco and put it on my shelf. People are not going to like Kirkland brand on my shelves. I'm doing my best to keep the cost that is not super expensive. The only way I could do that is if I increase my volume. Increasing volume, every single thing that I'm doing at the store, whether putting an ice cream bar or right now I'm putting a frozen yogurt machine, is to drive in people. So it costs a lot, but I'm doing it just in the hope that people Ever since I have taken over and I have cleaned up this place, I'm not saying that I'm doing anything completely different from what somebody else would have done. But just cleaning up this place, we are bringing in almost 800 more customers per month than we did in the previous years. I don't have any other benchmark but to compare my numbers to last year and the year before. So those are the stats that I compared with the data that I have. 800 extra customers, great. I love it, but I need more. The poker world market needs more. If I was to look at the books from the last two, three years, the market is barely breaking even. With all the new stuff I'm doing, the new hiring that I'm doing, I'm falling behind. So what I want to do is instead of like looking to eliminate some positions, get rid of some employees. I mean, at my store, I have a grandmother working. I have a daughter working, brother working, and their grandchild who's not even 18. He can't do half of the stuff that is required, like bailing and stuff. But I gave him an opportunity to work a few hours. So I'm doing everything I can in my position to help out people in my community. with this new gas station, we should be adding maybe five more extra positions, the way I'm looking at it. Every single thing that I have done so far, the previous owners, they swing by sometimes. That's what I wanted to do. This is what I wanted to do. Oh, I wanted to put a gas station. Nobody did it. And they all sold it, went away. I'm here to stay. So I'm going to do whatever I can to increase the volume at my store. For that, if I need to put a gas station, it's a huge gamble. I'm not enjoying shelling out 1.5, whatever it's going to cost to build it in the hopes that it will bring me more volume. The traffic that is going on the road right now, nobody's going to leave the home. Nobody drives extra just to, hey, Pokerville got a new gas station. Let's go over there. It's the people that are already driving over here. I just want to get a chance to get them to come in the store. That's why I'm putting this project. That's what I'm hoping for. And the questions about the, we have an existing pharmacy, it's empty space. I have tried to get some pharmacies to come in. I thought community needed, but I can't get anybody to come in. So that empty space, what I'm doing with that is just, we just need a door opening and there's a shutter behind on the inside. We're going to drop that shutter at nighttime, but we'll have somebody in the front the whole time. So yes, the gas station is an eyesore for some people don't like it. Don't want to see another gas station, but we don't have a, like a convenience store that we are putting up. We're just putting up pumps on a side. Safeways are doing it. Every single cost was are doing it. So I'm not doing anything different. I am going to try my best to make it, I can't do anything with a canopy, whichever brand I go with, I have to oblige by them. But the pillars and stuff, I have already talked to my contractor who's going to be building it, we're going to make it like it's scenic. I'm not going to stand here and say it's going to be the most beautiful gas station you'll ever see. It's going to be a gas station, but I'm going to try to make it as scenic or as nice as Pokerville deserves it, Plymouth deserves it, so that's what I'm going to do.

Hang on, I've got a couple questions for you, so don't go anywhere. All right, so the canopy design, I know I've seen canopies that are designed you know, like if you drive over to Folsom Lake and drive through El Dorado Hills, there's an ARCO that has, you know, like a canopy with a nice roof that complements the building. Is that possible to do? That is possible. Is that something you're interested in doing?

Yes.

Okay. And is that something we can do with design review or requirement?

Um, you, oh, sorry. You would add it as a condition of approval. So like the last one, I don't, I don't have in front of me whatever number it would be. And you would just say, uh, the applicant needs to work with staff on, I don't know, enhanced design of the canopy, however you want to word it. Yeah. Uh, uh, enhanced design to ensure that the canopy, uh, is similar in appearance to the existing market, however you want to word it.

Great. All right. And then, so I read in here that there was no additional lighting, but, you know, obviously you're taking down some things and putting in a canopy that's going to have lighting, correct? Yes. So there will be a change in lighting. Does that trigger anything?

Technically, no. But you could require a photometric plan at building permit, and we would check to make sure it's not glaring in the area. It's 49 or across the street. The tribal office is closed, obviously, after hours. But we can ensure that it's not, like, beaming across the street, so to speak.

It's all behind that building, too.

There is stuff behind it, yeah. You'll get a blockage of some of the light from the existing building, but there is a potential. And again, right facing there is 49er, and people do live in there.

Right. And would a photometric plan deal with that light shining off there, light also shining into the sky, you know, if they change lighting around there?

We don't have a dark sky ordinance, but the photometric plan will show the illumination. of everything so if all of us and it's going to do two things there's two things you want in photometric plan when you're looking at it one is you're looking at what is the extreme illumination right but also what you don't want is it is extremely illuminated here and then it's pitch black and it's extremely illuminated and it's pitch black because that causes security uh concerns so it's look so we would be looking at all of those things with a photometric point

OK, perfect. And then you address the convenience store. So it's not going to be a convenience store. Or what is it going to be?

It's going to be that part. So what I said is that we are not building a different building that is going to be a C-store on a site that will look out of place. This is going to be absorbed inside the building. So we're not building anything extra, like any structure extra. So it's going to blend in. And right now I'm just doing the cleaning on the inside. My goal is to address the paint on the outside. So I'll make it look nice. It'll blend in. But we're not doing any extra building or something for the C-Store. Okay, but it's going to be... It's going to be a gas station shop.

Yeah, it's going to be a gas station type of shop. Different hours probably than... 24. Yeah. Will it be 24 to go in and buy chips and all that? Yeah. Or you were talking about a door cut?

So the back, we're going to drop it at nighttime.

That's an interior door? That's an interior. Okay. So people can come in and... You know, buy gas, buy a candy bar, buy an energy drink, whatever they want to do at night. Okay. At times in Europe. Okay, that clears that up for me. And... Question about the 24-hour thing. So, you know, you say that this is to bring in volume to your store, but your store is closed.

Yeah. Is the 24-hour thing that important to you? I mean, that is still, like, I'm going back and forth with that. Like, is it really going to be worth it for me to have it? So... that is something that I haven't really 24 hours sounds good. Um, there's when sometimes I'm at the store at three in the morning, four in the morning, there's a lot of blue collar people going to the city to go work and it'll be nice to provide them with a, uh, uh, uh, uh, breakfast offering or burritos or something. It'll be nice to have it over here. Uh, so that's what I'm hoping that if I'm going to keep it open at, uh, If it's going to be open at four in the morning, might as well leave it open all night. So it's there for if somebody needs it in the middle of the night.

All right.

Those are my questions. Anybody else?

No, mine were answered. Thank you.

If I may, the project includes a conditional use permit. So don't forget the purpose of a conditional use permit is for use in which there are slight concerns, potentially, not always. And if the 24 hours became a problem and we have people loitering and there are issues on site, you can revoke a conditional use permit. So there's always that avenue for a city to call up a revocation of a permit or to impose different conditions of approval or get a different agreement from the operator for a conditional use permit. But it's not a forever thing. So I don't want anyone concerned that if it was problematic, that there is a 24-hour operating facility we have the potential to come back in and look at it i mean a design review is once we've given them approval and they've built it like that's done right i can't go and say remove a building but the conditional use permit gives the city guarantees both from an operational standpoint because they have conditional use they have conditions of approval guiding the operation of the facility in whatever case it may be such as what we just did across the street with drink bar. And then if there are any problems, much as we discussed with drink bar, where you had potential for loitering or noise or anything excessive, we can bring them up on revocation. And it's something most applicants don't want to do. So they will usually fix the problem before they come back to you.

Just a quick question on the conditional use permit. If there was an issue, is it an automatic renewal or review, or does there have to be something for us to review it?

We don't require annual review in this city. Some cities do, but that becomes time consuming. So most cities don't. Again, we're always, this is a small community. If there is a problem, someone is going to let me know right away, right? For anything. Sometimes it's a matter of easily code enforcement can go fix a problem, right? I don't know. Let's say they didn't clean up their site or, you know, they might get a notification from code enforcement. But usually the planning staff is watching, right? all uses with a conditional use permit and making sure that they are abiding by their conditions. That's part of what we do following the approval of conditional use permit. An example would be, I don't want to use him as the scapegoat, but drink bar was just approved. Let's say drink bar starts operating and I start getting complaints that they are violating their requirement for when the noise has to stop. The applicant will get a very nice letter from me first, and then we go from there. If it continues, it would be a problem. If we observe a problem on our own, we will say something without anyone in the public complaining. And there are enough people here that keep their eyes on everything in addition to staff. And we have our city manager and our code enforcement, and we're aware if there is a problem usually right away.

And if there's any, I'm there six days a week. I am going to address it if there's some kind of thing that I can fix right away. I had installed LED lights all over my building. Some neighbors said that they were too bright and I took them down right away. No problem. So I'm open to it.

And just confirming on your drawing with the sign, the gas price, are you committing to that first gas price that's on there?

I think having an extra gas station will help bring down the prices around the area for gas. And I will be offering anybody who shops at Pokerville spends $100, 10 cents off of gas. So that is something that I'm running the numbers. I will be doing that. And every gallon that is bought, I will commit one cent of that to the elementary school over here.

So you're obviously a numbers guy. You've done some numbers before you went into this and reached out to the different companies. What are your numbers saying adding a gas station to a place that rumors are saying that the tribe will be opening a gas station? They might be trying to buy Shell. There's going to be an Arco potentially down here. That means potentially speaking, there's four gas stations in Plymouth.

Right.

maybe three if the tribe buys the Shell station. What are your numbers dictating profitability there? Drive to the store? What are your thoughts on that?

I have looked at the numbers in each different scenario. It is going to be an uphill battle. If the casino opens up, I can't compete with that price, but I am not going to try to make money off of the gas. My goal is to bring my inside store sales up. So I am going to be competitive. And, uh, when I do my math, according to, I mean, if you want me to be open about it, like here's that. In California, if you were to go buy a gas station right now, you are going to be spending four to six million dollars. That's not going to be my cost. Right. So I'm looking at my mortgage, but I'm going to be adding. I just have to do more in-store volume at Pokerwell and it'll justify the gas station. So I'm looking. My math is from there. So it's a it's. Very hypothetical. It's like sports betting. Is this team going to win or not? So I'm running these scenarios in my head. Gas is not where my bread and butter is going to come from. It's whoever comes to get gas, hopefully will walk into poker, will get a frozen yogurt or ice cream or anything. So that's what I'm counting on.

And then the Chevron, right? Chevron works with Safeway for discounts. Yes. Will your store, will this Chevron honor those Safeway points, or is it going to be points through your Pokerville points?

Pokerville points, yes.

It will also honor the Safeway.

Pokerville? Oh, I learned something new today.

So it will also honor the Safeway points.

Mr. Biker is saying them, yes.

All right. You can go and have a seat, but don't go anywhere. We might have more questions. All right. Do we have any speaker forms? All right. So there's one. All right, Steve, go ahead.

I'm Steve Gerritsen. I live over in Zimple Ridge. My background is I've got a degree in occupational safety, advanced degrees in environmental engineering, and this type of stuff is right in my anchor. Wastewater management, building cities, traffic flow, that kind of stuff. So I got a background in this 40 years ago. Don't do it anymore. When I look at this proposal, I'm concerned because even though they say there was a traffic study, it sounds like it was a phone call or something. There's a big problem. There's way too much traffic going up 49 back and forth. You got a real problem going into that parking lot. And by the way, I want to say thank you. You guys have done a really good job at Pokerville. I applaud you. I like it so much better than it was. And I do go there more often now. So thank you. Thank you. But you guys got to make decisions that are good for the city of Plymouth. Mikel, you just said we're going to have four gas stations. You're going to compete against the tribe, right? We don't have four gas stations. We have a purpose-built facility right here, what used to be the old trading post that we think is going to be an Arco station, right? I understand his desire to drive revenue. It's not going to work for him. It'll work short term, long term, gas station go away. He's got to find a different model. You guys need to make a decision that's good for Plymouth, not for him.

Great, thank you. Anybody else?

Yeah, could you elaborate more on why you feel it's not a good decision for Plymouth to put that there, please?

Long term. You got a lot of travel. You have people coming back and forth in 49 Village. You've got safety. Oh, I'm sorry. That was what you had.

No, no, no. Can you step up to the mic and talk?

So people at home can hear you. Oh.

Yeah, people can't hear you at home.

I can't hear either.

Go ahead. What was the question, Mike? Can you elaborate on why you feel it's not a good decision? I mean, you did write a pretty elaborate information. I'm not sure if everybody got to read it or not, but could you elaborate more on why you feel it's not a good decision for Plymouth? I know traffic is a lot on Highway 49. There's already a gas station down there. There's going to be a gas station here on Main Street, potentially. Again, potentially. That hasn't been approved. So people will stop on Main Street in the roundabout, or they'll stop farther down off the highway. I'm just... questioning why you feel that that is the case. It's just not a good decision.

Well, just look at the traffic flow, the people going back and forth, 49 and Village, there's a risk and safety behind that. If the city makes this kind of decision, although you as commissioners aren't responsible, the city can be held responsible. I think there's four cases that I can cite with respect to how the city has been sued. and lost because they presented something that presented a danger. I'm not for or against this. I think it could be okay if you address some of the safety issues. I think Highway 49 in and out of that area there is a danger. Does anyone know a gas truck is one of the most dangerous vehicles on the road? The only two vehicles out there that we have going down the road that are dangerous right now are The logging trucks and the gas trucks, they're danger. You're going to have them going in and out. I'm going to assume you're going to feed it once a day, once a week, depending upon how much food you save. He's also got fuel tanks above ground. Do you know why we buried them? They were dangerous above ground. Put them above ground. You still have a problem. They can leak. They can have problems. It's a cost factor because it's cheaper to put them above ground versus below ground. There are so many ways we can dissect this, but I don't want to. I like what he's doing. I want to see things prosper. I just don't see this as a long-term benefit if we get another gas station, if we have the tribe putting one in. Long-term decision versus short-term effect.

But I don't want you to go away either. Whatever.

So... The gas tracks are already coming over here. There was a gas station right next door. So the gas was being delivered. Gas is being delivered half a mile from my store. So the fuel truck is coming. The other thing, there's potentially four gas stations coming. Potentially. I don't know. As much as I know about AMPM, they do volume. Plymouth doesn't have the volume to sell that many gallons of fuel. They're not going to be. I mean, I don't know if they're going to come, but if I'm AMPM, I will be thinking twice, like, is the volume there? And if I beat them to the race to build this gas station, maybe it'll offset somebody else from building a gas station. So I already have a commercial place where we could put the gas pumps. Maybe it'll offset the third one and the fourth one if I just get a head start right now.

I think really quick before you go anywhere, and this might be Erica instead, but as far as the modifications for the trucks driving in, what does that entail?

When they submit for their grading and improvement plans, they'll have to show the modified exhibit, and then we're going to route it to Caltrans for a final review to make sure they're okay with it.

So it's essentially a change of the entrance.

It's just like a slight modification so that the truck couldn't potentially clip that area. So they'll slightly modify it. They'll show the truck turning exhibit again and we'll get Caltrans to buy off on the grading improvement plan, much like we would for anything that goes through grading through that, let's say, phase of the project where you're fine tuning. So planning is the theoretical. Would this work in the city? And then we go into the finer detail. So if this was, let's say, a brand new building, you'd be giving me a site plan, some land of preliminary landscape plans and elevations. And then we do that at planning only because detailed construction drawings are very expensive to produce. And we don't want anyone to go through the expense of creating plans if their project could get denied. right so for a brand new building let's say pretend pokerville never existed they're going to come in next their next phase is if they were approved that building would then come in for a building permit uh grading and improvement plans and they have to show a number of detailed calculations and they have to show structural, electrical, mechanical, all these detailed plans that have to be prepared. And that's why you see that long gap usually between a planning approval and then a project actually starting construction because the time it takes to do those detailed plans plus the cost does take a while. But we do the here's like, what does it look like? In theory, would this be allowed in the city? And then those fine, minute details that are for the experts to ensure comply with like stormwater prevention and all those things we find detailed at that that phase where you have the experts looking at that kind of detailed information.

The reason I'm asking what that all involves is because I kind of share Steve's concerns about, I mean, that's a 45 to 50 mile an hour area. And after the roundabout was built, the main traffic collisions that occur on Highway 49, last I knew, were traffic going northbound. We were ending traffic stopping to either turn into 49 or turn into Pokerville, et cetera, and with no stack lane there. or anywhere, you know, shoulder for people to pile into to make that right turn or the left turn.

So again, Caltrans did review it, and their only concern was the truck entering the site and potentially clipping that site. It's their highway. So it's their... It's their highway, and they, in this community, are very active in Highway 49. I mean, you've seen it. They've commented on a number of our projects. They weren't concerned with this one. I mean, you've seen the level of concern they have on other things that we have looked at, and this was their only concern on this one.

Okay.

And they do review everything we send them. Okay.

All right. Omar Siddiqui I'm Omar Siddiqui with JTS Engineering. Yeah, so just to piggyback on that, so Caltrans did review the plans and we are going to make it compliant. Right now it is compliant. We're going to expand the driveway, number one, and we run a truck template specifically for fueling trucks to make sure that they have an entrance and they have an exit and that tire template is based on the fact that they cannot reverse. Everything is a smooth go around to make sure that it works. And also going back on the Caltrans issue, typically they're going to require a traffic study if this was a new development, but because it's existing and you're only adding six fuel stations, it wouldn't warrant the additional items that I think that the community is concerned about. Great. Thank you.

Do you have something as well?

Oh yeah. I just want to address the concern about the tanks. And tell us who you are. Oh, so my name is Ali. I'm the architect. So I was just talking to my, our consultant for, for the fuel tanks. So these fuel tanks, they have to meet a very strict guidelines from the state. So they are kind of bulletproof. So, and we also have emergency shutoff valve and there's a lot of like fail safe there. So I think it's not a big concern having, fuel tanks on ground or weather in ground. So I just want to put it out there as well. Great, thank you.

And if we get the green light on it, the parking lot at the driveway, I bump my car in that pothole that we have up front every time. I have tried filling it up. It doesn't hold. That parking lot needs repayment. So the previous owner, when he put the solar canopies, he left those light pole things and people hit their side of their car all the time. Those need to go away. So there's a lot of stuff that can be done all at once, like the repayment. We could make the driveway better so customers have a better experience. We do have delivery trucks that come, 53-foot trailers. They come already. We have deliveries four times a week, and three of them are 53-footers. So the trucks are making in and out of our parking lot right now. Thank you. Great.

Do you think part of the conditional use permit that they only deliver fuel after hours? Sorry. My concerns are always the vehicles going in and out, right? It's a two-lane road. 49 is a two-lane road. If there was an opening to move the vehicle so that 49 can continue, right, people go by, can you get deliveries after hours, late at night versus during the day? Because what I'm concerned about is the people going by. Everyone here is concerned about that. Great.

Let us know who you are. I'm Dan Biker. I am representing Valley Pacific Petroleum, who is potentially their fuel supplier. And after our deliveries are very easily done, especially if it's a conditional use, anywhere from, say, 10 p.m. to 4 a.m. I can't say it'll always be there at 2, because we've got to bring it from Tracy. But our trucks are on the road and our drivers prefer delivering at night because there is less traffic. And getting in and out of this parking lot is not going to be a big challenge. It doesn't appear. There's a turn lane there already if you're coming from the Placerville area. If you're coming up the other way, you're already in that line of traffic. So, and I will say that our drivers have won numerous safety awards because you're right. They are one of the most dangerous vehicles on the road. Great.

Thank you.

I'll let you come up, Steve.

If it's a conditional use at night, what about noise? People live there.

What noise it's highway 49. There, there is no additional noise with the offloading of fuel. It, And I'm sure of that. With the casino opening, I'm sure there's more traffic and et cetera, et cetera. All right. I think we're good on this one. We got our answers.

All right. Anyone else? Coming up. State your name. Let us know where you're from.

Robert Moody, Plymouth resident. I'm confused why the environmental study is not exempt or is exempt. That ditch that is right there in front of that store runs to the Aurora ditch that runs Indian Creek all the way down to Rancho Marietta. If there was a spill or somebody breaks a handle off a pump or whatnot, that gasoline, even during a rain season, goes in that ditch through the 49er out to Aurora Ditch. The 49er had to have a test for environmental study because they wanted to expand. I don't understand why this is exempt.

So it's exempt under CEQA. The fact that it is a gas station doesn't automatically trigger CEQA. The concern with operational spills, et cetera, that is all handled through their permit through the county environmental health department. So they're the experts. They take over those concerns from us. They have to get a permit through them. They will maintain their authority. they have to have a permit separately in terms of spills, et cetera. Again, environmental health handles that for us. the fact is is that this project is exempt from sequa it doesn't take into account i guess some of the concerns people have here um but it's much like drink bar across the street was exempt from sequa there are numerous exemptions within sequa for 49er sorry for 49er village across the street 49er village was constructed many years ago there was a plan for an expansion that included greelich ranch That project in the size of that project, project trigger CEQA. So we are conducting CEQA on that project has since changed, but there is environmental review underway for the Grealish Ranch project due to the size of that project. It is on multiple acres. It involves single family residential. There is a general plan amendment involved with it. There is a rezoning involved with it. All of those trigger sequence. Same with ARCO. ARCO involves a rezone. The second you rezone a property, some level of review is required. There are exceptions where you would have a minor level review. So for example, if I had a high density residential zone site, and I downzoned them to single family, there is a reduction in impacts, right? Because you're reducing the trips and the greenhouse gases and air quality. There's a number of things that will go on with something like that where you would perform a low-level CEQA because it is a rezone. But anything we have here where a rezone occurs, CEQA is required, and that's within the CEQA guidelines.

Great. Thanks for that info. Ma'am, come on up. We'll get you next. Turn on the microphone and say who you are, please, and where you're from.

Brenda Wilson from Plymouth. There are exceptions to the CEQA, and one of those exceptions is, for the unusual exceptions, circumstances as a sensitive environment. Campground is classified as a sensitive environment. There's not permanent structures. There's people outside. There's the elderly. There's a handicap. There's children. They're all playing out there. Campgrounds are considered a sensitive site. That is one of the exceptions that don't apply. You were really close to saying it earlier when you said high density, and you're right. That's another one, high density, and then there's a couple more, and the other one is a sensitive environment. Unless campgrounds aren't considered sensitive environments here. And your parking lot is way different than the parking lot that's a half a mile away from you. That parking lot that's up the hill where the gas station is now, it's nice and flat. You can go in and out from all directions. You can easily turn around. It's a, you know, in and out egress. I want you to have it, too. I want you to say, too, because they're right. You have done an amazing job with the store. So, but I don't see how it's exempt.

Okay, thanks. Ma'am? Let us know who you are and where you're from.

Kathy Landgraf, Plymouth River Pines. I appreciate Poker Hill Market. I appreciate everything you've done there. I shop there as much as possible. The entrance and exit is a nightmare. I can't really fathom how you're going to make it compatible to get those trucks in there. And numerous times they've delivered produce and products for the market, and they've parked out in the road and shuffled them up. It would need a major overhaul for the entrance.

Great. Thank you. Appreciate it. Anybody else? All right. You know, the routine.

Rosemary Marino, Moody Plymouth.

I just want to elaborate also what Kathy said. We have seen trucks in the middle of the road several times with the guy in the handcart taking stuff up. So I'm concerned if some of those trucks can't get in now, a minor modification of that driveway, it just doesn't sound correct. It needs some major... changes to it. It also, a lot of cars bottom out at the bottom of that the way it is. It is a very dangerous intersection coming in and out, especially during commute hours. So I'm concerned, are they going to put in a bigger left turn lane, a longer left turn lane, something there? And the other thing is the water that runs on both sides of that street, it is flooded every summer, every winter, every winter. So that is a concern when you add a gas station to it with that runoff. What are they going to do to prevent any runoff into that that normally comes from the rainwater? And then the last thing is there are several houses on Empire Street behind there. They might not butt right up to Pokerville, but you can see those houses from Pokerville. You can see them from the parking lot. And so the light noise and the noise is going to be affecting them directly because it's going to shine right into their houses because they're that close. Thank you.

Thank you. Definitely the lighting is a concern as well. So, Engineer, come on up.

Perfect. Yeah. So I just wanted to say that two things. So one thing is, is that when you're fronting a major highway like Highway 49, Caltrans is not going to allow you multiple ingress, egress points. You're typically only going to get one. And so our project, we have an existing driveway. So we are going to expand it. We are going to improve it to make sure that they have the turning radius, that it's more safer. We'll look at everything. If they're going to be repaving the entire thing, like how our client was saying, you know, we'll adjust the grade. We'll make it work. We're here to help the community. We want to make sure that everyone's safe and, you know, everyone's happy with the product.

Does that mean you're going to change the pitch? Because that seems to be the biggest problem people are speaking of is the pitch going in.

Yeah, we'll take a look at it. And if we're going to be regrading it and adding stuff to it, we can easily address that. That's not a concern.

Great, thanks. And I think, you know, for business-wise, that's a smart thing to do as well because I know people struggle with that, and it probably turns customers away.

Yeah.

Great.

Yeah, my point is we'll address it. But just the constraint is that we have one entrance. It's from Highway 49. We can't get multiple. And the way the existing store is, that's how it was built, right? So, unfortunately, we have to work with the existing conditions to get it to work out.

Understood. Yeah. Great. Anyone else? All right. One more. Come on up.

I'm Taylor. I live in Sutter Creek. I'm a business owner here on Main Street in Plymouth. The reason I want to come up and talk is just to encourage the board and maybe some of the community members to understand that we have a merchant in the city who is looking to do more to better the community. There's been a lot of talk about, well, we're going to have four gas stations. I don't see four gas stations. I see one. And if he wants to do it now, then I don't understand why he can't, if he's first at the table, why he's not allowed to proceed through with this idea that he has to do more for an existing business already within our community. Secondly, there's the issue with the entrance. I don't know how long that pit has been there, but it's been a long time. And if it's now an issue because he wants to put a gas station, it doesn't make too much sense because the issue existed prior. And it sounds like if you get the gas station here, that issue goes away. The other is the things about extra trucks. We have a gas station here already. The trucks are already going to be here. I don't know if anyone's awake and driven past Shell Station lately with the casino being open, but there's a lot of cars. There's a lot of people loitering outside that exists because everyone here is probably asleep at that time, so they don't see it when they're driving around. So I don't know how it would affect them if they're also sleeping, if people are loitering at the gas station. Proposed Chevron station, but the other fact is that if you. Diversify that you have more gas station, you have another place for people to go. It's going to. Reduce the impact on just the cell station that we already have in the city. That's it just I wanted to encourage the board and the community realize that. This is a merchant that's already here. He's just trying to do more. He's not trying to, you know, expand some other thing or grow some new, you know, another whole building. It's just an expansion on what he already has and is trying to succeed at. That's all.

Great. Thank you. All right. Come on up.

Kerry Relay, I'm a Plymouth resident. I'm going to call you to your mission statement, what's got to get accomplished here. And I agree, there's a lot that can be done here. But collectively, we're looking at a Hilton, we're looking at an AMPM, we've got Acorn Ridge. The explosion of what's happening here is going to be very difficult for you to maintain your mission statement. So my encouragement is you guys have to make some decisions here, there's no doubt. Harry's done a wonderful job at Pokerville. I can tell you 15 years ago, people quit going there because it got pretty rough. He's working on it. I suspect that he's going to see some improvement over time, but it is going to take a little time. So my encouragement is to you, let's keep the mission statement. Let's try to balance the needs of the community. Great.

Thank you. Anybody else? All right, I'm going to close public comment at this time, and we'll discuss. I'll start. I think some great information has come up today. I think it's prudent to add a condition regarding the aesthetics of the canopy. I think that's important. I think the photometric plan that addresses light pollution in the area, light shining towards neighbors' houses and all that, is super important. I'd support adding that. Um, but really kind of when it comes down, you want to talk about all these gas stations and everything else. Uh, the tribe hasn't built one. The shell just sold to a new owner. Um, I would assume the tribe had the opportunity to buy it like anybody else did. They didn't. Um, Our job as a planning commission, we really have three duties, and that comes from the government code. And one is to advise the council on development and projects. One is to maintain the general plan, and one is to carry out and basically enforce the general plan. In Plymouth, the general plan, for those of you guys who don't know or people at home, the general plan is a huge lift. It's a big thing that occurs. It's a big study with tons of public input where the public gets to come in and say, the people of Plymouth get to come in and say where they want what for the next 20, 25 years. Okay? So... The people of the city of Plymouth and the city government at the time that the plan was put together through workshops, studies, questionnaires, everything else decided these things. And they put Pokerville Market in a location that is allowed to do this. It's the highway commercial district. So what kind of the history is, is people said, hey, we don't want gas stations. We don't want... Jack in the Box, fast food, whatever, all of that near our commercial area. They don't want it on Main Street. They didn't want it by the roundabout. The gas station that's not selling gas anymore, the prior gas station up there, was a prior non-conforming use prior to that. So they wouldn't be able to do that again. If the ARCO wants to go in, they have a big lift because... They have to get over that general plan issue. They have to get over the zoning ordinance. They have to get over the historic overlay. So they have a big lift. But the people of Plymouth spoke in their general plan, it's our job to carry that out, that they said, we want uses like this there. And that's what's prescribed. So I think we need to come up with ways to make this workable. while still, you know, supporting the merchant while supporting the people of our town. And I think that the, um, the recommendations that the planner has put in regarding an attendant being there regarding, um, lighting, if we put that in there regarding shielding the thing with trees and plants and whatnot. So it's attractive and, and not, um, not ugly, for lack of a better term, is great. I also like the commitment from the owner and the engineer to do what they can within Caltrans' parameters to make that entrance better. I still don't think, I still have, frankly, have concerns about, I mean, I've taken, I was deputy sheriff up here a long time ago. I took a lot of accident reports on Highway 49. I get it. I know that's rear-enders are are probably the biggest problem out there and this could compound that to some degree and i get that and hopefully them work reworking the uh the entrance is helpful for that so that's that's kind of my position yeah um just to add to those comments i would agree i think if we were to move to approval we would definitely want

Another condition, which would be to work on the enhanced canopy design, make sure it's consistent with the store. But I like just consistent with kind of the rural feel right? Like, like the, the community we live in photometric plan after hours delivery. I think that's a great consideration. I mean, I didn't even think about that. It's great. Whoever brought that up, great idea. Not to say, though, at the same time, I don't think it really impacts. We already have gas delivery, right? And gas delivery was a trading post before. No issues with gas delivery there. Hopefully, you know, we don't have any. If they improve, I think the entrance, that should mitigate some of those concerns with the entry exit. Like Commissioner Sullivan was saying, right now we have one gas station. And we have this proposal before us, right? We don't have a, we've heard it from AMPM. We don't have their proposal brought back, right, to make a decision. We have your proposal here tonight. We don't have the tribe, right, to our knowledge, building a gas station. They didn't buy Shell. So we have one gas station. This would be the second gas station. And then As the applicant stated, I think, I don't know if we put that in a condition or you work with planning to just mitigate the entry on the, you know, kind of that slope. We all have issues with that, right? I know I go to Pokerville frequently and You know, you deal with it, right? I haven't bottomed out my car, but maybe others have. I don't see the flooding personally in the winter. I think if it rains that hard, everybody has flooding in various areas. Not that it's noticeable. But I would support it with those added contingencies.

So, question and just kind of, we can do a show of hands. Do people support after-hours delivery or not? Okay, I'm kind of thinking that the neighbors aren't going to like after-hours delivery, so we probably don't want to touch delivery times, or what do you think?

I'm good either. I mean, I thought I had heard that that may be better. So if the public, again, feels that would be better, we already have daytime delivery at Shell and had it at Trading Post.

I didn't know if you can... As a fuel supplier... If you put parameters that are not available for delivery, we will adhere to those as well. Great.

Thanks, Bill. Anybody else?

I agree with the additional conditions that we've talked about. I think that's really important. Just from my opinion on things, I do believe the driveway is a big issue. I think that we're addressing it in conditional use, and I'm hoping that it gets taken care of. And I know everybody's kind of said this, I'm going to repeat it as well. You know, potential can be anything. We get a potential of a... 5 hotels that doesn't matter. It's what we have in front of us and I think it's important to address what we have in front of us and I would support this project as with the conditions that we've talked about as well.

Any other commissioners on the way.

Yeah, I too would support it with the conditions that are listed. You know, he's a landowner and he has property rights. And I feel that the city of Plymouth needs more business growth and tax revenue. And regardless of what happens down the line, again, this is what's in front of us. And the city needs to make money and he's putting his money where his mouth is to support the future growth of Plymouth through tax revenue. Yeah. I do think that the tanks above ground are probably a problem, but I think if the tanks are below ground and they crack and it's going to go into the earth, it's the same kind of problem anyways. So regardless of where they're being above or below, that is what it is. I do see one problem that didn't really get discussed here. The one problem that I see is with the 24-hour store right across the street is children, parents trying to come to your convenience store. You know, I think traffic is not a problem personally because Caltrans said no problems. But I think traffic is going to come no matter what. You stated that the same traffic will come. You're Across the street are children, grandparents, children, sorry, fathers, daughters, whatever. Let's go get a snack. Walk across the street. I see that potentially being a problem. I don't know how that gets reconciled through you. But other than that, that's just kind of my issues. But I agree with the conditions presented to move forward.

And I think obviously, too, that the city, and this would be more the council than us, but the city can work with Caltrans to, you know, once this is in, to do an additional traffic survey out there and lower the speed limit, possibly calls for a crosswalk, whatever. But that's things that the council could put pressure on Caltrans to try and obtain at a later date. So since it's really nothing we have control over. Great. All right, so we're good on the canopy. We're good on, I guess, option number two, we're thinking, which was the option that included a person at the store whenever it's open. And also adding in the working with staff on the canopy design and photometric plan. Is that kind of what we're all feeling?

So if I can assist you, you would be modifying the first resolution, which is a major design review, to include at the end, let's say, the after the numbers end we'll add on one condition of approval that says that they are going to submit revised canopy plans to staff for review and approval that show that the canopy match the existing building is designed to match the existing building that would be one and then the next one would be uh that the applicant will submit a photometric plan and it can be submitted with this building permit plan or with canopy plan uh to to demonstrate uh the lighting values in the area And then the third, which I've heard from you, is that you would like the, in addition to the identified improvements at the entry, that you would like additional modifications to the entrance to make it more safer, travel. I'll come up with a genius word, but for right now, it's so that it's easier to access the site.

So that would be on your plan.

Yeah, so that would be on your major design review. But what I've also heard is that on the conditional use permit, you would also like to add a condition of approval that says no after hours deliveries, but we need to define those after hours. And so our noise ordinance is 9 to 8 a.m. I don't know if you want to follow that or if you want to select something else.

I would say, I mean, I hear the highway from my house and I'm on the highway early. I used to be on the highway earlier. I know it starts getting busy. You know, you get a lot of highway noise starting at about 5 a.m. So, I mean, I think 6 a.m. is a 10 p.m. to 6 a.m. is a 10 p.m. to 6 a.m. You guys thoughts?

I think that's reasonable. Yeah, it seems like by 6 people are out. I leave at work at 6 and a lot of people out already.

Call out holidays, guys.

Our code doesn't call out holidays or Sundays.

Delivery on holidays. Get more traffic on holidays so that road gets over busy. The concern is danger. Talks on the freeway with people.

I think we could get really granular with this, and I don't know if I want to. there's differences in traffic on holidays. In some ways, there's less. There's a lot less in the morning and a lot less in the evening, but midday, it's heavier. So, I mean, we would start having to have this scheme that would be real difficult for this guy's drivers to figure out and schedule. I think we kind of mirror the noise ordinance as written, but modified to 6 a.m. Yeah.

And if I can comment on holidays, we try not to have trucks on the road on holidays.

Yeah, you're probably out paying holiday time. Yeah, gotcha.

This station's going to average, we think, one to one and a half deliveries a week. So the impact is not going to be daily, even every other day. It's going to be five to seven days.

Okay. So the comment is for folks that couldn't hear it. It's they don't want to deliver on weekends and holidays anyways, if they can avoid especially holidays, right? And yeah, so I've got it. So that's a conditional use permit. Now, go ahead.

That would be on your conditional use permit because we are regulating their operation. The other ones have to deal with the design of the building. It goes with the design of the building.

So you're talking about, so that would be the attachment to conditional use permit? Yes. Okay. Okay, so I'll make a motion that we adopt the major design review with the conditional application Changes to include submitting a revised canopy plan and working with city staff on design Submitting a photometric plan with the building permit because I don't want it just to have to deal with the canopy itself requiring additional modifications to make the driveway more accessible and more safe and Then Under the conditional use permit, which is under Attachment 2, which does include the 24-hour attendant, also add in there a delivery prohibition for fuel between the hours of 10 p.m. and 6 a.m. That would not... That's one question. That wouldn't affect our other deliveries, correct? That would just be fuel deliveries?

No, because the grocery store is permitted.

Okay, so it's fuel only. Okay, so that's my motion. Can I get a second?

Can I just clarify that real quick? Are we looking at the resolution two or three, just to be specific? Because there's like... There's like two resolutions in our package.

I just want to make sure we're... Well, you're approving both, and we have a motion to add one, two, three conditions to the major design review, so your first attachment, and one condition to your conditional use permit.

Okay.

Which is your second attachment.

Great. Did we have a second? I'll second.

Commissioner East? Aye. Commissioner Malcolm? Aye. Commissioner Claproth?

Aye.

Vice Chair Mickelson?

Yes.

Chair Sullivan?

Yes.

Thank you. Motion passes.

Great. I want to make sure I thank everybody. Before anybody leaves, thank everybody for coming in and speaking. Your input was super important and heard and We were talking up here at the beginning of the meeting that it's tough when we're in here making decisions in a vacuum without people coming in and taking the time to either submit something in writing or participate by coming down. I know it's inconvenient time for everybody. Everybody's got things they need to do, but it was so valuable to have you all here. So I really appreciate, I appreciate all of you. Thank you very much. Great. And then we've got, let's see. We have more to go.

No, I do. I mean, talking. Pressing that button to say something is probably safer. I can't do it.

All right. All right. We still got some business to do up here, you guys. So on to number seven, unfinished business. My understanding is we have none. You guys order. We're still in session. All right. Thank you, guys.

Thank you.

All right. So number seven was unfinished business, none. Number eight, new business, none. So number nine, reports. Anybody on the commission have any reports or anything to bring up? Anything you would like to see in the future?

I do have a question. You said the drink bar was approved. Did that go through the city council? Is that what happens?

It went through you.

This was the one a while back. So it didn't cross. So that's what happened. So after we did that, then you worked with the applicant and kind of got the final design.

So, again, so, for example, take drink bar because that's the easiest one. You know, they have their site improvements that they're going to make. They're going to make. improvements to the interior of the building they're going to add a restroom they have to do very specific plans now um they have their approval for two years as with any projects and and and and i will be quite honest um in my experience over the last Let's say three to four years, I would say. What I am noticing is from planning approval to actual construction is two to four years for almost every project now. There's financing, there's been... Supply issues. There's been tariffs. There's been a number of things that have occurred that delay the actual construction. So again, they go through planning. It's would we even allow it? And then they go on to their very detailed plans that I'm not qualified. I don't understand. I am not a structural engineer. I don't know how that works. I don't understand the detailed mechanics of plumbing or mechanical plans. So our experts look at those fine details. And that's what they work on for their second phase. And then they start building. And most projects, not all, we have Nettie's table that didn't really have anything on the outside. Most projects will require some sort of grading or improvement plan that is applied for at the same time as your building permit and engineering is looking at those fine details that they look at. for site specifics, like how they are grading the site. How do they make the runoff work? A third component would be landscaping if they triggered WELO, which is we haven't had anyone yet. So they would have to comply with that.

Thank you. Appreciate it. Just a quick one. I don't know if it's appropriate to ask now, but what is the status on Nettie's table?

They've been working. What? They've been working. I would assume they're opening soon. I don't know. Sorry.

Great. All right. Anyone else? All right. As a chairperson, I don't have any reports. Planning director, any reports?

I have none.

All right. Our fantastic city staff members, do you guys have anything? All right. I'm going to adjourn this meeting of the Planning Commission at 7.56 p.m. Okay.