Planning Commission - Regular Meeting

On July 9th, 2026, we will open with the Pledge of Allegiance led by Commissioner Butler. I'll rise.

I'll rise. Repeat the pledge after me.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Thank you. Do we have a motion to approve tonight's agenda?

I make a motion that we approve tonight's agenda. Second.

I have a motion by Commissioner Redding, a second by Commissioner Trickler. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? That motion passes. Do I have a motion to approve tonight's staff reports?

I motion to approve tonight's staff reports.

Second. I have a motion by Commissioner Trickler, a second by Commissioner Butler. All those in favor, say aye. Aye. Any opposed? It was, it was Nelson. Sorry. Sorry. You guys sound the same. Okay. We got that right on the minutes? Okay. Uh, at this point are there any declarations or conflicts, abstentions from Commission members? Okay, seeing none we will continue with our, uh, our agenda. Item number one is a public hearing for a preliminary subdivision plat located approximately 1000 West State Street, Sam White's Lane neighborhood. As the request of Nate Reiner for a 45 lot preliminary condominium subdivision plat called X development PG mixed use condominium plat.

We'll turn it over to Mr. Hawkins. Thank you so much. Good evening, Mr. Chairman and members of the commission. I'm Jacob Hawkins from the Planning Department. I apologize. It's one of those nights. All right, so the first item that we have for tonight is a residential subdivision plat for a handful of townhomes located at approximately 1000 West State Street. So this is the property that we're talking about tonight. So the blue area, now what had happened was the applicant before for X development, they came through and they did a three lot subdivision plat where they did one, two, three lots. And they also did a site plan for the townhomes over here and also a commercial site plan up here as well. And so what they're doing tonight really is just taking this lower portion where all those residences, where those townhomes, and they're just dividing that up further into a condominium plat for ownership, for individual ownership of each residential unit. And so, yeah, once everything here is done, then they'll record that previous plat and then this condominium plat, and then they'll start applying for building permits. But in any case, since all that the applicant is doing is just changing the previous subdivision plat into a condominium one, so that way each tenant can own their own residential unit, staff recommends approval of the proposed condominium plat, and I can take any questions.

Are there any questions for Jacob? Okay, hearing none. Thank you, Jacob.

Oh, hold on. Here's the plat. There you go. Now you have it.

Okay. Is the applicant here? If you'd like to come up the podium, please state your name for the record and anything you'd like to add or tell us.

Good evening. My name is Carla Mata with a K as well. I'm with X development. Nate Reiner is actually our engineer with CIR, so that's why I showed him as the applicant. But X development is actually the applicant. I'm available for any questions that you might have. I don't know if you need more context or if you got enough from Jacob.

How much has this changed from the previous?

There's no change. The only difference, I mean, it was a previously approved site plan, previously approved subdivision plan. The only difference is this makes it so that they can be individual units that are sold rather than rented.

Great. We like property ownership here.

Okay. I don't see any other questions. Thank you. Great. Thank you.

This is a public hearing. If there's any members of the audience that like to come up and speak anything at this, come forward at this time. Okay, not seeing a rush for the podium. We will close the public hearing of this and bring it back up to the commissioners for discussions and or motions.

I have a question.

Yes.

Where is the parking?

That's a good question.

I can answer that. So the parking is a little bit more visible on the site plan that has been approved. All that this is doing, it's just dividing the individual buildings into their own respective units. But the parking is there. There are garages on the lower end of the or on the bottom level of the townhomes and additional parking just throughout the development as well. And driveways as well.

Oh, good, good.

So we had that conversation with the previous. I think I remember that. Yeah. So there was, I remember that there was, all that was included. Okay, any other questions?

I'll make a motion. I move the Planning Commission approve the request of Nate Reiner for a 45 lot preliminary residential condominium subdivision plat called X Development PG mixed-use condominium plat located approximately 1000 West State Street on property zone commercial sales 2. with the conditions of all final planning, engineering, and fire department requirements are met. I'll second.

Okay, I have a motion by Commissioner Patten, a second by Commissioner Redding. All those in favor say aye.

Aye.

Any opposed? That motion also passes. Item number two, public hearing for a site plan located approximately 224 South Pleasant Grove Boulevard. is to the request of Patrick, excuse me if I said that wrong, Patel, for a commercial site plan, commercial building located approximately 224 South Pleasant Grove in the Grove Commercial Sales Zone. Mr. Hawkins.

Thank you so much. All right, so this second item is for a commercial site plan for a new commercial building located in front of the Boulevard Apartments here on PG Boulevard. So here's the property right here. Now this property, if I run over here, here it is. Now this is in the Grove commercial sales and it has the Boulevard mixed-use overlay on top of that. Now these apartments are currently under construction right now and I want to take a second just to talk about the apartments in relation to this proposed site plan. So the boulevard apartments were approved back in early to mid 2024 and they're under construction now, as you can see here on the aerial image. And in order for them to meet all of the requirements from the boulevard mixed use overlay and the grove commercial sales zone they effectively came up with a master plan for the entire development area. including a plan for the subject property that we're hearing tonight. And I call it a master plan because even though it never really received any formal approval from the planning commission, it did lay out all the groundwork for all the other commercial pads within the development being this whole section. And that includes things such as landscaping, open space, parking, things like that. And so the proposed site plan for tonight mirrors pretty much exactly one for one what was proposed before. And so this site plan has never actually received any formal approval or anything like that, but we have in essence seen what this looks like before. So let's see here. This plan mirrors almost identically to what was originally proposed in the master plan, which takes into consideration the overall open space requirement the amount of required commercial retail use and special parking requirements. So on the topic of parking, now the apartments are not permitted to park within the front 64 feet next to Pleasant Grove Boulevard. Now because of this, the parking, actually I'm gonna go back over to, not that one, to this one. I'm gonna run down here just a little bit So the boundary lines for this particular site plan for this lot, they're kind of long and skinny. So all of the parking for this building is technically located up here within that 64 foot buffer. And then they also have four parking spaces over here. one space that just belongs to them outright, and then three joint parking spaces. And those joint parking spaces are nighttime versus daytime use that they share with the apartments themselves. But the rest of the parking though that you can see here in front of the building and to the north, technically that belongs to the apartment because of that 64 foot buffer. So regardless of where the parking is located, 32 parking spaces at least have been provided on this property, which will meet the minimum requirements for what it is that they wanna do. Now what they wanna do, if I go to their floor plan, just scrolling all around here, I probably didn't provide a floor plan, that's okay. So they have one, two, three, four, five units in here. And they're all pretty much about the same size. At this time, we're just expecting them to be retail uses. If they're restaurant uses, then we'll figure out any additional parking that they might need at the time of business license. But just based on the square footage alone that they have, and if it's all used for retail, 32 parking spaces is what they would need.

City planner? Yes. The uses permitted in this building have to be sales tax generating uses. So either retail, restaurants, that's it pretty much. So the uses allowed in these spaces will be sales tax generating uses. It's part of the zone requirement for this.

Thank you, Daniel. As for the landscaping and open space requirements, those have been met through generally the overall open space and landscaping plan that has been provided when the Boulevard Apartments went in. So that was all calculated. And since this site plan for tonight is just mirroring what has already been proposed before, they're on track to meet all of those requirements for the whole development. Um, I do wanna note, uh, that this project has not yet been through the design review board. Uh, but the meeting for that is gonna be scheduled for this upcoming Monday, July 13th. Uh, and one of the things that, uh, they will do is, uh, what the design review board will do is look a little more closely at the proposed elevation plans, uh, to ensure compliance with the zoning ordinances, such as the proposed materials, uh, and, uh, the orientation of the building towards the street and things like that. For now, though, the proposed building is approximately 25 feet tall at the highest point, which includes any parapet walls that cover necessary utilities, and that all meets the height requirements of the Grove Zone. And the elevation plans outline that the building will be built of brick, fiber cement siding, glass, metal panel, and stucco. Stucco is the largest accent material on the northeast side facing 100 south at approximately 36.4% of that side. And metal paneling is the largest accent material on the southwest side, which faces the apartments at approximately 45.3%. But ultimately, staff recommends approval of the proposed plans with the condition that the proposed site plan receive a recommendation of approval from the design review board before being scheduled for city council. And then if there are any significant changes, we can bring the plans back to the planning commission for additional approval if needed. but I can take any questions.

I know when we first talked about this, there was a lot of controversy over parking and enough parking stalls, but do you feel there is, I mean, I know the minimum requirements, but you feel there's enough parking for the proposed use?

So technically, yes, there would be, according to what has been provided. um according to the subdivision plat and how things have been laid out it's a little bit in an odd space and people will park where they're going to park effectively but if it starts turning into a problem where we where it's not meeting the zoning requirements we can work with our code enforcement officer to work with the apartments to make sure that all of the requirements are being met for like that 64 foot buffer

At Chiang Mai Memory, when we talked about this before, they're sharing those parking spaces, right?

The pink ones right here. These are joint parking spaces right there.

Only those.

Only those ones. And there are a few others in other parts of the development, but in regards to this site plan, it's just those three.

Okay, and then it also looks like the front of this building would be facing the apartments, and the roadside is somewhat the back with minimal windows. And you said it's mostly stucco that's facing the street?

Yeah, mostly stucco that's facing the street, although that is the accent material, and it's at about approximately 30, what did I say? 36. 36%. So again, this will need to go through the design review board and it will need to receive a recommendation of approval before it can go to city council. And if there are significant changes, we'll bring it back.

So if I remember right, with the shared parking, the assumption was is that during the day, when there's retail activities, that these parking spots are gonna be for this building, and then in the evening, after hours, then there would be the opportunity for the apartments to utilize these. Correct. And then parking enforcement, is there an agreement between the retail and the apartments, or is that solely on Pleasant Grove to enforce?

No, there's a joint parking agreement that's recorded.

Okay.

For those four spaces?

No, just for the three or for the entire 32?

No, so it would be just for the three. Let me go back. Just those three. Right. Those three as well as any other joint parking spaces in other areas of the development.

The hot pink versus the regular pink.

Right, exactly, the hot pink. Gotcha.

I have a question.

Yes.

Is this a drive-thru?

That is a drive-thru. And so if there is a restaurant in there, that would add to the tax sales generating uses. But then I would also figure out the parking requirements upon the business license application that we get from them.

Because a restaurant is not going to close at 5 when people are coming home from work and wanting to park in all those places. Correct.

So the joint parking agreement is between uses that are generally nighttime versus uses that are generally daytime.

Sorry, sorry, staff. It's only for those four parking stops. Everything else that is in pink belongs to the commercial uses.

Are there going to be signage up saying don't park here unless you're going to the restaurant?

that's for them to enforce, but they own it, so it's their property.

So generally there's enough parking, but we may have a problem with where people are really parking, and that's going to be between the apartments and the commercial, or is that gonna be the city?

Yes, that's gonna be them.

Okay, yeah, because if I'm going to that restaurant, I'm parking at the apartment parking. So, and most people will, so if we're willing to deal with that problem, I guess.

Looking at the site, that's probably not a sit-down restaurant. It's more like a coffee shop, drive-thru, sandwich only. I don't see anything outside of that being able to fit there typically for the square footage. You're not going to have a sit-down.

We have a lot of these places. People go in for lunch. They sit there for 30 minutes to an hour or so.

Well, that's daytime use versus nighttime.

But if city's OK with it, then we'll let them deal with it.

So Jacob, I do have a question. Can you go to the map that shows the overall open space plan?

To landscape?

That one right there. So looking at this overall space plan, our open space right here. So there's green space right here. Sure. um is there a green space on here so on the plan because when we originally talked about it you know two years ago or three well yeah i guess whenever um there was the assumption that there was going to be a natural buffer or something between the sidewalk between the road and the parking lot so i'm not seeing that just curious about that

Yeah, that's a great question. So a lot of this stuff, since the boulevard apartments are being built right now are under construction, and then with this one soon to be under construction, a lot of the stuff that's gonna be built at the same time as the apartments, it kind of overlaps a little bit. So the part that you're referring to, I believe, is being built with the Boulevard Apartments, including a wall that's like two or three feet tall.

So two to three foot wall between the sidewalk? Between the sidewalk and the parking. And the parking. Yes. So it's not gonna be a green space or anything like that, it's just gonna be a wall.

Right? They'll have a wall, yes, but that's in addition to any other landscaping that they might have in that area.

Okay. I think the wall was the intention was so headlights weren't shining onto the boulevard, but then there was green space to be able to buffer so that it wasn't such a harsh visual, because we wanted the interior of the city to look pleasant.

Yeah, I can understand why they would do it, but it just deviates a little bit from the open space plan that we had talked about two years ago. well, three years ago, two years ago, four years ago. It's been a long process.

Yeah, this has been a long one. This has been great. Okay, thanks, Jacob. Any other questions for Jacob or staff? Okay, thank you. Okay, thank you. Again, is the applicant here? Would you like to come up and address anything or share any more insights with us? State your name for the record, please. And if I butchered your first name, I apologize.

No, that's fine.

Good evening. My name is Karthik Patel, and I'm here to represent the project. And yeah, if you have any questions, please.

You will be owning that whole building? What's that? You will be owning the whole building?

Yes, owning the whole building.

And you think people are going to park along the road instead of right in front of the house?

That's where we have the shared agreement, right?

Okay. They're going to park in front of it. We know that's going to happen.

So is there any other additional information that, you know, we asked Jacob some questions and staff some questions. Is there anything that you want to add to answer those or any additional insights?

I mean, we are on the same page. we have been talking about, yeah? So I think I don't have any more information about it.

Okay. Yeah. Kartik, any exciting news about any new business that may come over there that you have in mind?

Not yet, but I'm waiting for it, too.

So you are aware that the only uses that will be permitted are retail uses? Yes. Including restaurants?

Yeah, exactly.

Okay.

Yeah, that is a caveat that some people have more time with.

That was a fight. That was a fight every single time, making sure that we had the sales tax and generating. Yeah, I know.

Yeah. Let's see. Okay. Any other questions or needs?

I don't know if this is for Kartik or Jacob, but the green space that is on 100 South, Who's is that the commercial is that yeah, mr. Patel's Supposed to do that. Okay, and then you said parking so that area she's referring to that. Yeah, I'm referring to that. Okay, so mr. Patel and then The other part you said was the apartment so is that correct the parking I

So I believe it is under construction with the Boulevard Apartments, but in terms of maintenance, each person is in charge of their own lot, as shown on the subdivision plan. And so in this particular case, Mr. Patel, I apologize. he would be the one, or the property owner of this lot would be in charge of maintaining that part. Or if there's an agreement with the apartments to maintain that, that'll be up to them to take care of that.

Okay, thank you.

I do have one question about, since you haven't gone to the design review board, the northeast side, which is gonna be facing 100 south, so it's essentially the back of the building right there, for are you going to allow or have signage on this backside for the building or for the businesses that are gonna be there? I know on the front side, so it shows on the southwest side facing the apartments, there's a little placard there that they can advertise for the businesses. But on the backside, you know.

I mean, we haven't decided yet, but it depends, again, upon the business that comes down and their requirements.

Okay, so in the design requirements and stuff is that that that might be something just to advertise because people are driving, you know, they're driving, they will see that would be nice. Yeah, they'll see that side more than they will see the southwest side because it's there's the berm that's there. It's on the opposite side. You know, they're headed into the city and it's looking that way versus so that that's just something that I noticed.

No, that's a really good point. Yeah, thanks. Okay, anything else? Thank you. Thank you, everyone.

Okay, this is a public hearing. If there's any other members of the public that would like to come up and discuss anything about this project. All right, seeing no takers, we'll bring it back up to the commissioners for discussions.

I'm okay with it. I'd like to see green space. Makes everything look nicer.

Yeah.

I don't know if the city can enforce that.

It's just part of the site. They can.

Can you guys speak on the microphone, please? Yes.

It was just the green space, just making sure that the green space meets the plan and the enforcement of that.

We'll make sure that happens, the green space. Thanks. In regards to the parking, commissioners, this was a long process. I know it looks a little... but the reason why we did it like that was to preserve that parking, to preserve the parking for the commercial uses.

Yeah, it's fine. It's not like super convenient, but there's enough parking, so.

And I think once we see, it was important for us to make sure that we had the retail uses. Once we have the retail uses there and we can see how it behaves, we can see what happens there, if the applicant would like to make any changes, we can sit down and talk about it. but it was important for us to make sure that commercial parking will be there. What you guys see in pink, not in hot pink, in pink, that's commercial uses only. Parking is a very interesting animal. We have been doing this for 15 years and there's still so many studies and we're still trying to figure out. There's many engineers, planners, professionals working on this and it's a Parking is like water. If he finds a little crack, he's gonna go through it. So we wanna see how this one's gonna behave. We'll pay attention how this is gonna behave. We won't be enforcing it. That's up to the property owner to make sure that his parking spots are respected. He's aware of what he's buying and he's aware of what he's doing. But like I say, we'll monitor it and if we want to do any amendments later on, we'll present it to you guys.

I am curious about the apartments. How many parking spaces are allowed per apartment already? Is it one or is it two there?

Depending on the number of bedrooms, if I remember correctly. I don't have the number with me right now. No, you want to know the ratio, right? Yeah.

The ratio of it, because in Eagle Mountain, they're already having a problem with that, where they're parking in businesses.

I always make sure that we stay on the item that we're presenting. We're not talking about the residential right now, but since it's a question that is coming up, I'll tell you right now. I think we set up the rules for this project in 2017. What is that? Nine years ago? So sorry about my bad memory.

No, you're fine.

But we'll get them for you right now.

And the parking was discussed in detail with the apartment.

Yeah. And this is the first time I've seen it. So all I see is chaos happening. And the tenants of those businesses, they're always going to be angry. They're always going to be angry. And you better have a good clause with them saying, you can't argue about the parking. It's OK if you can't find it.

Give me one minute That was a long heated there's a lot of discussions about that There was there was back and forth and then the original developer sold out. Yeah, so We're dealing with mr. And mrs. Patel, which is great Okay, so

That was height. We require 1.75 spaces for one-bedroom units and two spaces for two-bedroom units.

That's a lot. That's a lot. I have a question. Is there street parking along the boulevard?

No.

But there is a sidewalk here? Yes.

So if everything goes well, the businesses will generate a lot of interest and stuff like that. And so the public will drive there and it will cause chaos, like you were saying, because it's so cool and everything like that. Otherwise, there's the hope in this mixed use. And we had this conversation a lot in this mixed use area is that the residents of the apartment buildings, they would naturally flow down to the commercial. To the walkover? to walk over and stuff like that. And so the parking, there was a lot of parking that was given to the apartment buildings, like 1.75, yeah, 1.75 and then two. That was a headache because they were pushing and we were pushing and trying to come to a consensus and stuff like that. And so, you know, it is what it is right now.

That's a lot more parking than I thought. I thought it was gonna be one. Yeah, no.

Not just that, but this ratio is above, what we have at the Grove, for example. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yes.

Yeah. After after this. So after this, we we buckled down, so to speak. We learned from this project in parking ratios and everything like that. And staff did a great job of looking at all the current studies, other cities and stuff like that. And with the current developments that we have are a result of what we experienced here.

I'd like to make a motion.

I was going to.

I move the Planning Commission forward a positive recommendation of approval for the request of Kartek Patel for a commercial site plan for a commercial building located at approximately 224 South Pleasant Grove Boulevard. on property zoned the Grove Commercial Sales Subdistrict and the Boulevard Mixed Use Overlay, and adopting the following conditions. One, the elevation plans receive a recommendation of approval from the Design Review Board, and that all final planning, engineering, and fire department requirements are met. I second.

Okay, I have a motion by Commissioner Redding, a second by Commissioner Shirley. All those in favor, say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Okay, that motion passes. Our next item for tonight will be a public hearing for a rezone located at 1270 North, 580 East, Bink Spring neighborhood at the request of Hugh and Melissa Hinkson to add residential agricultural overlay to approximately 2.18 acres of land. Jacob.

All righty, thank you. All right, so this third item tonight is for a zone change to add the residential agricultural overlay to this property here, located at 1270 North 580 East. This property is approximately 2.18 acres in size. Don't mind the 17 here, it's like 2.17999. And what they wanna do is they wanna add the residential agricultural overlay to the entire property. Now, while we're looking at the zoning map, and go back over here. I'm going to zoom out to like the whole city. Maybe zoom in one more time. So I want to point out where the residential agricultural overlay has previously been applied. So there's five spaces so far. There's this little spot down here in a little subdivision called Loader Estates. There's this one up here where they have like a couple orchards and such. Here is Snuck Farms. Up here we have, what was that wedding venue? Stone Gate. So Stone Gate and there's like the Peak Preschool or something up there. And then there are a couple properties all the way up here at the north end of town. that have that overlay as well. So those are the five properties right now that have had that residential agricultural overlay applied to them. Now, let's see here. The applicant's intent for the rezone, now they just purchased this property and they're requesting to add the residential agricultural overlay for a few animal rights and orchard uses. Specifically, the applicant intends to preserve the residential character neighborhood of the property. sorry, residential character of the property while establishing agricultural uses in the form of a family orchard with fruit trees and perennial crops, a vineyard for grape production, an apiary to support pollination and honey production, a community garden and food production area, and limited personal non-commercial animal husbandry consistent with all of the residential agricultural overlay requirements. The applicant does not intend to create any new subdivision or establish more intense agricultural uses such as commercial boarding, writing lessons, breeding operation, public business use, or event venue use, or anything like that. Any proposed animal shelter would be located away from neighboring dwellings and would comply with required setbacks, property maintenance, manure and waste management, drainage, fencing, and all other applicable zoning requirements. So speaking of the zoning requirements, let me hop on over to the residential zone so that we can compare what is permitted in the R1 zone versus the residential agricultural overlay. So in the R1 zones, including the R120 zone, single family dwellings are permitted, accessory apartments are permitted, a few different types of utilities, religious activities, so churches or parks or some animal specialties, namely chickens and hens, those are all permitted by right. And then if we scroll down just a little bit further, There are a few other things that are permitted as a conditional use, such as two family dwellings, a few other things as well, retail, office or service uses, educational stuff. All of these, they would be approved, but there would have to be certain conditions that need to be met in order for them to be approved. And then anyways, there's also a bunch of accessory uses that are permitted as well. Just as long as they are incidental to and do not substantially alter the character of the permitted principal use or structure. So garages, carports, bathhouses, they can do gardens, they can have bees, they can have chickens, pretty much anything that is what you would use just personally. That would all be perfectly fine. But when it comes to the residential agricultural overlay, a lot of this stuff is if you want to have like some larger animals or have like agricultural production or things like that. Something that's a little bit, you know, it still needs to be incidental to the residential use, but it's a lot more than what, you know, just a personal agricultural thing would be, like just a garden or something. So yeah, and also being an overlay, the residential agricultural overlay permits all of the underlying zone uses. So everything from the R1 zone, as well as all of these. And of course, all of these will have additional requirements where necessary. So the sale of produce or products harvested from land within a residential agricultural overlay may also be conducted on the property from which produce or products were harvested as a valid accessory use, as long as such sales activities are minor and incidental to the property uses. And so moving on to the question of when is it appropriate to apply this zone to a particular area, I actually think that we can go to this section here. Let me run down 13B9, this section right here. So ultimately, staff recommends, actually, no, go ahead and read this. Pleasant Grove City hereby declares its intent to promote and preserve existing agricultural uses within the city, provided, however, that nothing herein shall be construed to prohibit an owner of or agricultural property from ceasing the agricultural use of the property or applying for a zone change. The city further affirms its intent to not enact any ordinance, resolution, or policy that would unreasonably restrict agricultural structures or agricultural practices unless necessary to promote the public health, safety, and welfare. So ultimately, staff recommends that the application of the residential agricultural overlay could be applied to properties to promote and preserve existing agricultural uses and open space within the city, but only if it does not come at the expense of the surrounding neighborhood's health, safety, and welfare. And kind of to point a comparison a little bit as well, when there's an existing agricultural use in an area, the city allows for development to be constructed around that agricultural use. And in those cases, the development of the new residential uses are aware of the agricultural area and the nuisances that could be associated with that area. And in fact, the city has even provided a couple sections right here for like nuisance protection and notice on plat as well to protect the existing agricultural area from recourse from any neighbors who might be affected by those nuisances. However, as in this case, if there's an existing neighborhood And if one of those properties within the neighborhood wants to establish an agricultural use, staff recommends that the decision to consider the proposed change with caution to protect the health, safety and welfare of existing residences. So if the residential agricultural overlay is applied, regardless of the applicant's intentions, the overlay may permit heavy machinery, noise, odor, dust, pesticides and herbicides, and a possible increase in demand for city utilities. Furthermore, some commercial uses such as animal hospital services and commercial kennels could be permitted in this overlay and the surrounding neighborhood should be aware of what could possibly be approved if this overlay is applied. So the residential agricultural overlay does put a couple of limitations on for agricultural uses to mitigate any negative effects to the public health, safety, and welfare. A couple of these examples are a minimum requirement to the size of the property to which this overlay can be applied to. So we need a minimum of two acres, which the applicant has. there's a limitation on the number of animals that may be cared for on the property and then there are setbacks for buildings used for the housing of animals but otherwise the overlay permits many additional uses commercial and agricultural beyond what is typically permitted in the r1 zone going over here to the general plan This area is located in the single family low density area, which includes the R1-15, R1-12, and R1-10 zones. The general plan states that these areas are intended to serve as a buffer between medium density residential and very low and rural residential areas and should maintain densities of two to four units per acre. And while there is a precedent for other residential properties within higher density residential zones to have the residential agricultural overlay, such as snuck farms, and while the applicant has enough land to meet the minimum area for the overlay to be applied to, staff recommends that the overlay should be carefully applied to properties that are intended to be used for agricultural uses, only after the neighborhood is aware of what the rezone means, and not just as a way to have animal rights without being rezoned to rural, residential, or agricultural. And the general plan also intends for this area to be developed into smaller residential lots, not used for agricultural purposes. And so I can take any questions and... Can you repeat that last sentence? yeah so the general plan intends to have this area to be developed into smaller residential lots not used for agricultural purposes realistically they could only put one more house on that lot though because of the sure that's what i was wondering okay yeah because 1400 north comes through because of the design and because of the the geography

it just it's not conducive because you can put a cul-de-sac in there effectively you might get three but it'd be very challenging but you're not going to put three r10s sure in there right it just doesn't fit so so jacob if you go i'm looking at the map just really quick um can you go to the zoning map

the property boundaries aren't really working, but here's where that property is. Or if it's easier, I can do this.

So it's R120, and now I just have a question. So if we go north of this, so if you can go north of this property, just around the bend on the Murdock Canal Trail.

Yeah, so like up here?

So right, yeah, pretty much right there. That right there. So what is the difference between this area here, this property, in the eyes of the city, and what is proposed? Because that right there is the barn, and I know that there's horses and everything up there. And so I'm just curious. Because it looks like it's the same zone.

So it is the same zone. The main difference, give me one second, let me head over to there. There we go. Yeah, so this is the property you're talking about. Correct. So this property, I would have to look into it a little bit more, but depending on if the agricultural uses for this property has existed for so long, then the purposes of- It's essentially grandfathered in. Well, it could be grandfathered in, but on top of that, as it says right here, declares its intent to promote and preserve existing agricultural uses.

Okay, okay, and that makes sense. I just wanted clarification about that.

That other property was part of the big springs, and they actually had rights to that big spring and sold them to Pleasant Grove years ago in the water. It's got a lot of history with that property.

And I believe 1013-B10, the nuisance protection, trumps the things that all of the overlay allows, correct? So you were saying it could pose some nuisances. It could pose some nuisances, yeah.

But that's why we want to be careful because if we were to approve the overlay for this particular area, it would establish that agricultural area. And then anyone who complains about it, now we have this section of code that says, hey, you should have come here and voiced your- Been aware of the- Been aware of- Of the change and the- Exactly.

Possibility of this being a reality.

That reads that they can complain when it becomes a reality.

Yeah.

Yes, but if we go agriculture and is said essential for that agricultural purpose, it will override. Having farmed up in the Syracuse area and everything like that, had neighbors come complain on our farm. It didn't make any difference if we created dust or noise. If it was required for me to use for that use on that farm, They complained all they wanted.

Just getting back on track, commissioners, let's have the applicant. If you have any questions for the staff, then we can go back to discuss the item between you guys, just so we can follow the procedures. The procedures, thank you.

Okay, thank you, Jacob. Again, this is a hearing. Is the applicant here? Would you like to come up, state your name at the podium for the record, and let us know what you think.

For sure. Hugh Hinkson. My wife and I and our five children recently moved from Orem, Utah to Pleasant Grove. The major difference between the two areas is one has a red barn and one has a blue barn. And they're lovely areas. If you've been down there, you know where you are based on the colors of the cool buildings there. House was built in 1894, remodeled in the 1990s. I'm nine of 12 kids. If any of you grew up near agriculture, you know that... the values that are instilled by having plants and animals. I'm a beekeeper as well. It does a lot for the character of the children and also for their ability to, I think, learn responsibility and empathy for those around them and for the responsibilities they will have one day. We have five kids now. We will have more. I think the perfect number might be seven. We'll find out shortly. But I can tell you that we've been looking for a home for some time. I work in Lehigh. I'm a chief commercial officer at a company called Pattern. I have been a Boy Scout master on and off for the last 15 years, and I work emergency preparedness in Orem, so I am very aware of food production, how to store it, and how to help people with their finances. So we're trying to find our forever home, and we determined it was this one. We've been looking at Pleasant Grove for some time because it has a good blend of agriculture and residential. For that reason, we picked this property. We had no interest of putting in-laws or five other families on the property. As you can see, It's not gonna be seven, eight homes to provide taxes for the community or for the city. At best, you're gonna get one and it's gonna be a little inconvenient for the people on the 1400 North. I have only been in the home about eight days. We move in on Saturday and I have met over a dozen of my new neighbors. And I've talked to every single one of them. I'm indiscriminately talking to them. I will finish the circuit soon, I promise. And not one of them has given me any reason to believe they're not super excited about the potential of the overlay. Of those 12, I asked if they would be willing to come tonight. Four of those families are here tonight. And five others would have been had they been in town or not participating as a coach for soccer. So we're very excited to get to know the area. Our kids are already being kind of integrated. It's pretty fun. And we're very excited about it. I really wanted to emphasize the responsibility that we take in everything we do. I already have 30 fruit trees in a much smaller lot. I have five beehives. I have small suits for the neighborhood kids. No one's been stung. It's lovely. I've got chickens. I eat 10 eggs a day. I can't, with 12 chickens, get enough food for myself, let alone seven children. So a normal residential is not going to provide for that kind of stuff. I'd have to go buy them, which, as you all know, is not as cool as raising your own. So some of the things, like I've been doing grapes and fruit trees and perennial gardens. I have a ton of garden in my front yard currently in Orem. And it is the location where all the neighborhood kids spend their time. I have four strawberry beds. I have hundreds of feets of raspberries, blackberries, honeyberries, which you should check out because they're really cool. And we do this. And I get to know people all the time. And this is why we chose this lot. And so community support is kind of who we are. It's what I kind of do for a living. I hire and work with a lot of brands and a lot of employees, well over 500 here in the area. And so we're looking forward to making this our home forever and ever. I am grateful, and I just want you to know that this is what we're thinking. And if you have any questions about how we're going to use the property, I'm happy to answer those. Or I can also sit down and invite those that came to talk as well.

I have a question. Yeah. Do you plan on doing any commercial sales from your stuff?

That's a good question. I don't plan on doing it myself. I do have lots of kids and they have a little wheelbarrow and they will port around the honey that they help produce. So I take care of the bees, they take care of the honey. And they do a very good job. 11, nine, seven, four, and two-year-old, boys on the ends. And my two girls, the older two, they can tell you every part of the beehive. So they can break it down. They can tell you what the brood is, where the eggs are. And they take pride in that. And as we harvest it, they then take care of the sale of the honey and they make money for it and they save quite a bit. So we do that kind of stuff. We haven't sold fruit yet. We have a freeze dryer, dehydrator. They know how to use those machines. And I assume that one day they will probably knock doors and have a little stand. They do a good job with lemonade. They actually squeeze the lemons.

Outside of chickens, do you foresee any other animals on the property?

I think everyone on earth thinks goats are cute. I have every intention of putting goats on the property. Not to eat them. Milk production would be very fun. We like cheese, cream. We make our own kefir. We do raw milk, so we have to find the right places to buy raw milk. But ideally, we would have maybe a cow. We would have some goats. Pigs are not very fun, so I would never expect a pig on our property. We love chickens. If you ever had a goose, it'll blow your mind. They're very fun. It's like a guard dog, all right? So it keeps the chicken safe, and this is kind of fun. So, yeah. You had a question as well, or no?

Okay. With some of your fruit trees and things, agricultural background, there's a lot. Are you an organic farmer? Are you pesticides?

Because there's a lot to control all of that. So I'm an entomologist by hobby, so I went to BYU. I was an Arabic major, but I worked in museums. I traveled the Caribbean and South America collecting insects. I like to collect them, and I do put them in isopropyl alcohol, but I do not spray them. So I don't use any pesticides on any of my fruit trees. That helps you.

What do you use instead? There's organic. Do you use oils?

You can use neem oil, but that's really at the beginning of the season to help with scale insects. And so it's not a pesticide. It's like putting olive oil on you. Sure. Eventually you would drown in olive oil. Sure. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Water is the greatest killer of humans.

Yeah, that's true. There are spirocytes. It's like you actually put bacteria. It's fine for humans for consumption, but the insects can't handle it. And so you would have to decide what you have a problem with. Peach borers, you can do different things. I mean, I do this for my whole neighborhood now has fruit trees. So I plant them for them and I teach them how to use them. And it's quite fun.

Any other pertinent related questions?

No, we've got on a side tangent for a minute. Yeah, sorry. Thank you. Okay. Well, no, no, just no, it's not a side tangent because this is important. So, you know, from the presentation that was done by the city and stuff, you know, this is the overlay zone. It applies to this area. And if you happen to move and leave and stuff like that, just like what they were saying, if this overlay zone is there, then the next... person that comes in they have the opportunity to use those you know chemicals they have they have that opportunity and stuff like that so that it you know we can understand from the city's perspective is this is a permanent thing any a lot of the decisions that we make here you know right now and here yes we can trust the person in front of us we hope to um but 15 20 30 years down the road that person may change. And so we also have to take that into consideration. So just so you know.

And I tell you, Daniel and Jacob have been lovely, been respectful, professional, responsive, which is really nice. I understand that I can't control the future. We did not buy this house. We carry no debt as a family. And so we're not going anywhere. It's important to us. Yeah.

I did have a question about water use. With this property, is there water rights associated with it?

There are no water rights. I've called every person in the area that has water rights. So Mickelson Horse Farm is literally a block away. You've got the Binghams, which have the red barn. There's like six others. They all have 1.25 or less, and they will not sell them until they die. But when they die, I can buy them. And yeah, they're not cheap, and it's the same actual water coming out of the canal that I would have. It's just really no different. It's just they don't have to pay for it ongoing. I would have to pay the utilities. So it's very similar.

Yeah. Cool. What side of the neighbors, have you addressed any of the neighbors on the east side of Murdoch Trail?

I have not yet, but I promise to do so. I'm also in contact with, yeah, so I will talk to all of them. I've talked to everyone that's touching my property, two of them are here tonight. The third is just down below. I've got people across the street. I've talked to a good portion of them. I think the rule is about 400 feet in every direction of the property. I will ensure to talk to everyone within that, without the space. I have a clipboard. I look like a salesman, and people don't want to answer the door sometimes.

Just as long as you're not on a Segway.

That's right, no segues. Okay, that's good. But I will talk to the people on the east side. It would only be the first row of houses that might, or maybe, it could be the second, it depends on how you do the property, but I will talk to all of them, so.

Thank you.

All right.

Okay, thank you. Okay, this is a public hearing. If anyone else would like to come and address the... Staff here, state your name with the record as you come up and keep your comments pertinent to the subject at hand, please.

So I'm Matt Bream. I live directly west. We're more than happy. I think it's, I understand the concern here, but we are excited about an orchard, animals, cows, whatever. The smell wouldn't bother me at all. Just across the canal road, there is an equestrian trail and there's horse poo there all the time. It doesn't really bother anybody that I know of. So we're excited to have green space and someone that does something productive with the land next to us. So no problems here. Okay, thank you.

Hello, my name's Joe Ivy. I live at 550 East, so two houses just below the 1400 North there, and one over to the right. Nope, two to the right.

Right where the blue, yeah, that's me.

Okay, so I don't know if you met him this week, lovely gentleman. And as he started to share his ideas, you can't really see my garden, but I definitely have liked the most gardening guy in the neighborhood. My neighbor to the right, Chris Ward, Chris and Danny Ward, he actually asked me to be here today as well to support this. I think... we probably would be the most affected just because of how the land sits there with that backyard. I spend so much time in my yard and we've talked about this very thing. Can we get a community garden here? How do we utilize this land? Because it's been sitting there forever, untouched. It's a pile of weeds. And as there have been many discussions by previous owners about what size of development can we put in here? My wife and I are just praying, like, please not another house, right? If you're familiar or not, the 1400 North, that's the back end access. So right in front of my house is where all these trucks and trailers potentially would be going. Or if a new house came in, you know, that's the access way. And knowing everything I know, you know, 10 to one, I would vote for this over leaving it a pile of weeds or potential future development of any sorts, right? So, you know, if we scale out, I'm not a doomsday guy, but, you know, looking at global warming and, you know, soil regeneration and composting and all these beautiful things we're talking about here today. I'm like, this Pleasant Grove? It's Pleasant Grove. I failed to mention, my family has lived in this neighborhood since the 90s, so it feels like a long time for me, three quarters of my life. I bought the home from my dad. this is kind of my neighborhood. I know these people. I've also got a two-year-old and teenagers, and we're not going anywhere for a while either. So finally, after all these years, it's like, this is our home too. This is our space. And like, please, let's do something cool with it. I love this. I think it's the idea of Pleasant Grove, right? I don't want to I repeat myself here, but I think it's pertinent to say supporting a neighbor, a citizen who's gonna show up and put his money where his mouth is, to put his hands and soil in the ground with everything that's going on. Don't we want a little bit of insulation for our community? We saw the supply chain break just a minute ago. I want this guy to be my neighbor doing this kind of cool stuff. So that's all I got. Thank you.

Hello, my name's Josh Harrison. I live just to the right of him on 560. So we're on 1400 North on the south part of the road touching the properties, the 2.7, the property we're talking about. But I guess I can repeat everything that they said as well, but to kind of give a little different perspective, I was raised in St. George, and St. George has changed dramatically over the last 15 years. I remember driving to school through farm roads, and now it's all just homes. Driving there now is honestly a little sad. Even the temperature, you can tell the difference in the temperature when you're driving late at night just because all the farms have disappeared, all the agriculture has disappeared, and it's really affected St. George for that. In high school, one of my girlfriends, her grandpa owned a farm, and I was able to help out on that farm from 16 to 18. I went every day, helped with the horses, helped with the cows. They had homing pigeons, helped with the chickens, and it was by far one of my favorite things ever. I think being able to kind of what was previously mentioned, get my hands dirty, to actually work, to bale the hay for them. I know that won't be necessarily how this is. I don't think the plot's nearly big enough for some alfalfa, but to have the opportunity to deal with livestock, to understand agriculture was super beneficial to me and definitely shaped where I want to live and how I want to live and how I even choose to purchase as I understand what goes into good food. And that's what I want to give myself as well. So I'm being right next door. I'm all for because the home is on the south part. So if I were to guess, not sure what their plans are, but the farming would be more on that north end. So being right next door to where that farming would be, I'm all for it. Been around farms, absolutely love it. And I love what they love, everything that you get from those. So, yeah, thank you.

Good evening. My name is Steve Bodine. My wife and I have lived in Pleasant Grove for about 33 years now. And so we were here, we're both transplants, but we absolutely love Pleasant Grove. The people here, the culture that we have, and we're absolutely 100% behind what they want to do on their property. I live just across the street from the That south corner is where I live. But we were on the west end of Pleasant Grove for a long time. I remember it was all fields there. People used to pheasant hunt and things as part of that. And there's always been just a great history of this type of agriculture or, you know, all the fruit trees, the orchards, things that have always been part of Pleasant Grove, right? And if there's people that want to continue that, I think we should support it. And that's why we do. It was kind of interesting. I'm glad they brought up the map because I always was interested in what or which ones actually have this overlay Because there's a lot more areas around, just going down, say, 1100 North, that have cows. Snuck Farms is there. Mickelson Farm, just a block away. If that doesn't have the overlay, how are they able to put all those animals and things on there? So there's a lot of it around, even though they don't have that agricultural overlay. But it's always great to see, right? Animals, orchards, any of that is a good thing. So we do support it wholeheartedly. I think they'll be good neighbors to have. So we would definitely like to see the changes that they're going to put in.

Thank you. Okay, that looks like most of you. We will end the public discussion at this point and bring it back up to the commissioners for discussions and or motions.

I wanna say that it is so refreshing to have everybody come up to the podium with positives.

That's not always the case we get.

It's not always the case and that was lovely.

In fact, usually when there's a crowd this side, it's exactly the opposite.

Yes. I have a question. Is there going to be access through here or only through their driveway?

There'll be access on both points, I'm sure.

It is dual access?

I move the Planning Commission forward a recommendation of approval to the City Council for the request of Hugh and Melissa Hinkston to apply the residential agriculture overlay to approximately 2.18 acres of land located at 1270 North, 580 East, and adopting the exhibit's conditions and findings of the staff report, if any.

Okay, I have a motion by Commissioner Nelson. Second. Second by Commissioner Redding. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Okay, now hearing an oppose, that passes. Looks like we had a few abstentions. Okay. All right, that motion passes. We'll go on to our next motion. If you want to stay in here, you can. If you want to leave, you're welcome to go. We know these meetings can drag on pretty late some nights. Okay, we are going to hear a code text amendment for section 10-12A-2, permitted conditional accessory uses, business manufacturing park zone, request of St. John's properties.

All righty, thank you so much. Alrighty, so U6410 is a general category that includes several other types of more specific uses from general automobile repair services to car washes and detailing. I have all of the, I guess you could call them subcategories up here on the screen if you want to take a look at any of those. And so yeah, if U6410 is approved, then all of these associated uses will also be approved. Are there any questions about what some of these uses are or any examples of where some of these uses might be located at or do we just kind of want to move on?

I know we've discussed similar and this before quite a bit.

Yeah, perfect. So I'll go ahead and move on, but if there are any questions, just let me know.

Yes, sir.

So parking requirements for these uses are generally one space per employee plus five parking spaces for customers before any parking is counted for vehicles being serviced. All vehicles, regardless of if they're for customers, for employees, or are serviced, have to be located in a parking stall. Getting into staff's comments. Now staff recommends approval of the proposed code text amendment. But there are a couple of things that perhaps we can discuss and address. So first is the amount of land still usable for light manufacturing uses. Second is the potential future development of 1300 West. And last is the redevelopment of land in the BMP zone. So first, land that can be used for light manufacturing uses. Let me head over here to our zoning map. And we'll come down here. Actually, I just did this thing, so let me do this. Here we go. So this is the area where the bmp zone is it's about 83 acres or so, and this is. The bmp zone is intended to be a buffer between the grove zone and the manufacturing distribution zone. But it's generally only the manufacturing zone and the BMP zone allow for manufacturing uses. There are a couple flex space buildings located in other areas that are allowed to have, you know, like a little bit of storage or, you know, something like that. But generally speaking, these areas right here are where light manufacturing can actually happen. Second, the BMP zone occupies, oh, this is 65 acres of land. Sorry, not 80. So it's 65.5 acres of land located over here on 1300 East. Now in the future, there's likely going to be a new intersection coming off of the freeway right here. So this area is probably gonna get a whole lot more traffic. I don't know just yet if this area is gonna have that same volume of traffic if that intersection is made just yet. But let's see here. Yeah, so it's expected that 1300 West or Proctor Lane will eventually have access to the freeway. which could increase the amount of traffic going up and down 1300 West. The proposed use, if it includes all of its subcategories, it could allow for like a repair shop or a car wash to be located directly fronting 1300 West within view of North County Boulevard or just directly on 1300 West if there is more traffic. And given the new freeway entrance, it's a new entrance into the city. That's one of the reasons why we have like the Grove zone, like the Grove interchange sub-district. We wanna have like a signature image of the city for people who are entering the city, right? So yeah, to create an attractive gateway from the I-15 into the city, creating a unique signature image for the city while still balancing the limited amount of land that can be used for light manufacturing. And to this point, actually, one of the primary concerns regarding some of these uses here, specifically 6411 or such, is broken down vehicles visible from the street while they're waiting to be serviced, especially if such vehicles take a significant amount of time to be fixed. So if there are any potential conditions that could be made to help mitigate concerns such as these, we can discuss that. And then the third thing just to kind of talk about is the proximity of the Grove mixed housing sub-district and residential uses to the BMP zone. Now, while the BMP zone is nearly built out, there are still some residences located on the north side of 700 south across from the BMP zone and permitting you 6410 would allow for existing buildings Such as these ones or these ones already have a site plan there, but existing buildings could add you 6410 into one of their units or if redevelopment were to happen. So, for example, if, say, the close to my heart building or if this one they came up with a different site plan. there could be an opportunity for someone to actually have a standalone like car wash or vehicle service thing there right now though the only property that does not have an active site plan or is not under construction or otherwise already built is a little portion right up here which is owned by st john's properties um Lastly, the proposed use is categorized under use 6000, which is the general category for services. Service uses typically do not generate sales tax, although some automobile services do offer some secondary retail uses such as tires or vehicle accessories. But ultimately staff recommends approval of the proposed code text amendment. The BMP zone does provide for some design controls that will need to be met regardless of the proposed use. And as long as those design controls are met, then any potential building should meet the vision for creating an attractive gateway into the city. The BMP zone also permits for more intense uses than just automobile repair and related services. And so from a standpoint of if the use would be compatible with other existing uses in the zone, staff finds that the proposed use would be compatible. The biggest consideration that could be made to this request, though, could be in reference to the parking requirements. So for example, where parking lots may be located and where vehicles being serviced are seen from. So for example, if someone had an automobile repair shop, use 6411, Um, perhaps that could be approved with the provision that any vehicles being serviced are located a minimum of like, say 120 feet from any right of way, uh, or are otherwise screened with a solid fence or wall, not taller than eight feet. Um, or like no outside storage or anything like that. Um, If it were to be like the 120 feet, I came up with that number just because that's about the distance between the property line here and this building right here. So if any of these units were to have such a use, they wouldn't be able to park any vehicles being serviced up front visible from the street. So that way they can maintain that park-like atmosphere. Or alternatively, if the consensus is that vehicles being serviced is too much of a hassle, there could be a recommendation to approve individual subcategories of this use instead of the use as a whole, or to add exemptions or however. With that being said, staff recommend approval and I can take any questions.

Which property are we looking at? Which section of this? Because...

So this would be for the entire zone, but the applicant owns this property up here.

Okay. So Jacob, in the comments from the staff, On the bottom of page four of the paragraph, the proposed use is categorized under use 6,000, which is the general category for services. Service uses typically do not generate sales tax, although some automobile service businesses offer some secondary retail uses, such as tires or vehicle accessories. So with that in mind, generating sales tax, On the next page, on page five, it shows 6411, 6416, 17, 18, 19, right? So for our knowledge and for the public record, out of all of those, which of those do generate a sales tax for the city?

That's a great question. Did you wanna speak?

Yeah, by itself, none of them. But for example, if you have an auto paint shop and they sell the paint there, then they do. 6419 when you're gonna do a oil change and you're gonna sell the oil and stuff like that, then they do on that. I think that's what you mentioned by secondary. Out of glass installation, if they're just gonna go do the installations, there's no sales tax, but if they're gonna sell the materials there, then there's sales tax. Anything that there's a selling point, that's what generates sales tax. So just by itself, I mean, None, but again, if you think about it, the secondary action or the activities that will be provided right there, then yeah, I mean, I always bring this example about a haircut salon. The use by itself doesn't, right? From time to time, someone's gonna sell a shampoo or a gel or something like that, which is minimum. Can we count that as a retail use? I don't think so. Is there some retail uses for, I mean, there's some retail activities, yes, but I don't think the main category of this situation is retail. In the case of, Out of glass installation, I imagine this window is all cracked. I haven't replaced it because I think it's quite expensive. But if they're going to sell you right there the window or whatever, the windshield, then I'm pretty sure that the amount that they will pay for sales tax is greater than a shampoo or a gel or something like that. I don't know if that answers your question.

Yeah, it does. It does.

Any hard goods would have sales tax services would not.

Yeah, I just wanted that to be emphasized in the public record because we talk about it so much and this has been a conversation for as long as I've been on the Planning Commission that we're trying to generate sales tax for the city. And that's about eight years, by the way. So been around the block a few times and heard quite a few comments about sales tax generation. So I appreciate the answer, yeah. Yeah, thank you, Danny.

Are there any other comments for Jacob? Thank you, sir.

Sorry, I was speaking with the residents out there, but you guys went over the subcategories, and do you explain that stuff? Yes? Yes. Okay, thank you. Yes. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

I was only referencing what was written up.

Okay, the applicant is here. Would you like to come up and state your name for the record since we don't know you?

It's been at least a month or two. Marty Beaumont with St. John Properties. Thank you for giving us just a minute here to talk about this item. As you know, we build our buildings and then we lease our buildings and we like to have opportunity to lease them to a lot of different tenant types. Dave Kuntz, There isn't one specific one here that we've saluted for these properties we're just saying we feel like these uses are conducive to the property that we own in this area, and therefore it would it would make sense for us to try to have as many opportunities to. to lease, and it wasn't necessarily a retail aspect of things. That kind of draws that. We talked about that a few months ago, how some of the flex in the BMP zone that we have could potentially draw in some retailers, but it could also, I mean, the intent of the BMP zone is not to draw in a lot of retail uses. This probably opens it up to some potential retail users, but it's probably not the reason to approve it because it's gonna add a big retail tax generator for the city. We just think it's a great opportunity to talk about that. Yes, 1300 West will become more prominent as the interchange is done at I-15. There will be more traffic than you see today. It's a three lane collector road and 700 South is a three lane collector road. Those will probably continue forever that way. You've got a doTERRA campus up there that you gotta go through a roundabout. So it becoming a Pleasant Grove Boulevard road is probably not realistic because most people are turning on North County or going over to Pleasant Grove Boulevard. If they do go through, great, it's good traffic, good visibility, and we're excited to have that on that road as well. Jacob, I couldn't remember from looking at the BMP zone, other than our one acre, isn't every piece of property underdeveloped or developed right now? So there's already been site plans approved and under construction on any open space other than our one acre. Something could be redeveloped close to my heart. Most of the other stuff is brand new warehousing. Warehousing isn't conducive to automotives, which is probably the biggest impact use here that we're talking about that might create the biggest potential nuisance and not usually conducive to a big warehouse type of a use because it's not really parked or designed that way. But anyways, I think for that purpose that it just gives us opportunity to look at different tenant opportunities there, really on that one acre pieces. And then it opens it up for some of the other flex space that could potentially use something of that nature in those flex. As you know, we've got our flex over there by Tesla. And we've got some auto stuff in those that do wraps and tinting and car modifications and a few things like that that do bring in when they sell those products, they do have a sales tax generation with those as well. This is just another couple that might have on the light end of the retail, but would be a good opportunity in the zone. But yeah, if there is something, with the fencing. I would try not to set that front setback necessarily at 120 feet because the one that he referenced has a big detention facility, then it has a parking lot, and then it has the front of the building. So the 120 feet is a correct measurement, but maybe it's just, you know, no automobile parking unless it's screened or the fencing, you know, can't extend beyond the front of the building that's allowed or something of that nature versus an actual square of footage back because every every site will have its own constraints that set that back but I think there could be some benefit of having us you know an eight-foot screen wall if it's going to be an auto repair for the service vehicles if that's the concern of the city I don't know that that's a bad requirement for that type of a use but maybe not just saying it has to be 120 feet just just make it in the front setback or beyond the front of the building or something like that and it has to be screened if that's something that is of concern. But otherwise, I think, we think these are some great uses for that area. Any questions?

What if there's the provision of requiring that the vehicle, similar to the wraps, that they need to be inside the building during the night? Or is that... You know, Commissioner Butler, I don't... again in that area. It does get a lot harder. It's just wanting to have the visibility, especially when it potentially is an entrance into the city south side with the Ruth Theater and stuff. That's easy access to Ruth Theater, and so you're thinking about people that are coming from Linden, coming off of that new interchange at 1300. And, you know, I personally, you know, don't want to see 220 South at 1300 West. Well, we currently have a 220 South before we get to State Street. It's like all those cars. It's like, oh, that's attractive.

Yeah. No, the front yard and the front area there, I can see that there's some benefit of trying to keep any vehicles being serviced. It probably depends on what type of service you're talking about. If somebody's parked there because tomorrow they're getting a wrap on their car. It's going to be a car, right? If it's an automobile that's going to get repaired and it's sitting out there and the tires are off and it's jacked up on jack stands, those are things that we want to avoid. We wouldn't obviously allow those things in our development anyways. But I think if there's something of that nature to indicate that any serviced vehicles for auto repair or something would need to be you know, behind the building and not something visible from the street or something of that nature, that's probably a fair thing to say. To have them all internally housed, similar to what we just did in the Grove Business Park overlay, you know, that's not, we won't get an auto repair place likely because of that requirement, which is totally fine in that zone. It doesn't really make a lot of sense to have auto repair other than the light stuff that we were able to get approved in that. In this situation, it's kind of in the BMP zone. It's a different type of maybe a little more flexible in the usage of the property than in over by Tesla and by the Class A office that's over there, those types of things. So I see why you wanted to protect it there. In here, I think just having it behind the building or something that's not visible from the street or something would be a much more conducive use, or I mean restriction, than having to have it housed.

Yeah, just having the eight foot or the screened fence or something like that so that it's behind there.

Yeah, if it's going to be serviced and it has to be behind something and it can't be in the front of the building to where it's gonna become a public nuisance along the street or something of that nature for that type of a use.

Yeah.

Any other questions for me?

I don't see any.

Okay, thank you.

Chair, I apologize for not being here during the presentation. Again, I was talking to a resident. So again, the applicant is proposing to add 6410. So it's the whole array of uses. If you guys remember recently, we spoke about a property neighboring this. And one of the reasons we, one of the arguments the staff brought up and we discussed it is this will be the gate, one of our gates to our city, okay? One of our gates to our city. There's a history with the majority of flex spaces or storage uses that eventually as years pass where carp shops or mechanic shops are permitted, they get there in flex space building, okay? And we can see that in Provo, Orem, because they have the room and the space where to do it, but the parking of those vehicles end up happening on the front, or they end up happening on the whatever they're gonna find parking, right? I mean, at the end of the day, you're renting a unit where you do the work, but what happens with all the cars that are waiting for it? And that becomes probably one of the, I want to say, top three biggest headaches for code enforcement. So can you go back to the list of uses? So there's a big list of uses, and to be honest with you, some of them are very different than other ones. But it's just a recommendation to the Planning Commission to keep into consideration that use 6411 is complicated to manage in regard of code enforcement. So the recommendation on that one is that, at least for that use, that the parking of vehicles is all indoors. Even when it happens on the backyard or something like that, ends up on a nuisance. That's the recommendation. I'd like you guys to have your conversation, your discussion right there. But at least for U6411, pin shops, I mean, that one has to happen indoors, I mean, by health code. If I tell you how many times I have found people painting their vehicles outside. Something to keep in mind. Something to keep in mind. At the end of the day, what the applicant is proposing is to add 6410. Let's take that into consideration. But there's nothing that stops you from putting specific qualifying provisions for any use that you have right there. Or you guys can have a conversation with the applicant in regards to what of those uses you consider appropriate. All of them. with qualifying provisions or none of them. It's up to you guys and we're gonna leave it to you guys to have that discussion. Does that make sense what I'm trying to say? Yeah, okay.

so big old tire brings out tires every day and they put them back in so we could do that put on a provision that anything they bring outside has to be back into the garages same with the paint have it make sure provisions in that yeah for inside right and i had my car painted when it got crunched well

And it was there for a week and a half. So it was outside part of the time, I'm sure.

So looking at that list right now, looking at the list right now and knowing what the location, the potential location that it can be. Sorry. I'm fine with everyone but 6411.

Oh, no, we didn't say discussed. We jumped.

We need to open up to the public. If there's any in the public that wants to come.

sorry jim i was i was i was going off of daniels yeah it was two so as i said i'm fine with all of them but 6411 in that area what about 6415 though those can pile up quickly the size of the vehicle yeah you can put

You can put five motorcycles in one stall.

Yeah, but you can also bring them inside.

And it's a lot easier to move them than a full-size car.

I can see 6415 being an issue, but...

So we could approve the motion with the exception of 6411?

6411.

As our condition?

Mm-hmm. Do we approve 6410 with the elimination of 6411?

And no outside storage permitted?

Yeah.

Yes, I'd say add that.

Yeah.

That is restrictive, you know, doing the outside storage in front. And that's what we're talking about, you know, in front of the building. And that's what Daniel was referring to. It's like things spill out to the front, ultimately. They do grow in the back and then start creeping around the sides.

He did say in the back, too.

Well, yeah, in the back. But if we do, you know, as it's proposed here, or not proposed, but just minimum of an eight-foot tall or a screened fence, that's one thing.

Yeah, everything stays behind a secluded fence.

And in that area, the 120 feet, just like what the applicant said, 120 feet in the southern end of that, that makes it very difficult, right? But with an eight-foot fence and things staying in the back, yeah. I mean, even down, so I've been down, we talked about another couple times ago, we talked about another property that was to the east of it, and it was towards, right at the end, it ends at Linden, right? Yes. And driving down there, I... I was looking for another shop down there, and I was driving, and yeah, there was cars that were parked on the street that were being worked on and stuff. And so fortunately, it's not a main road or anything like that, and people can't see it, but still, it happens. It ends up being present, very present, and I wouldn't... It was the music shop we had at that time. Yeah, yeah, and I was looking for another shop right in that area, and... Yeah, what Daniel mentioned that that happens.

Yeah, there are several cars on that road Yeah, there are several cars on that road, even though they're not supposed to be parked on the road We talked about that with the music anyway So a motion to approve with the exception of you 6411 and no outside storage I'll storage behind behind the fence behind an eight-foot Mm-hmm screen in the back

Or as it says, like right here in the, if we're looking at the paragraph, use 6411 could be approved with the provision that it's behind. So all the rest of them, and then 6411 is behind a eight foot fence. I don't know.

Or all of them behind an eight-foot fence.

All of them definitely, but I don't know.

You prove it that all vehicles other than customers visiting be put behind? Daytime. Daytime customers.

No overnight storage.

Any storage of any kinds behind an eight-foot fence in the rear of the property?

I still don't want 6411 on there.

Because then we have to patrol it in the morning, make sure everything is being removed. You don't have more to do than that, do you?

We have plenty of resources.

OK. Yeah, that's just a recommendation for you guys to decide how you guys want to proceed on that.

But yeah, all storage vehicles would be behind the fence. Anyway.

I don't think we should allow 6411. It will just creep. It will creep up to the front and it will look like 200.

So you're suggesting take out 6410 and 6411?

No, no, no, no. So 6410 includes all of those with the exception of 6411.

But keeps 6415 also? All the rest of them.

Yeah. So the entire list.

I'm okay with 6411 in there if it's got those provisions.

Yeah, if there is, yeah.

So I guess whichever way you want to present it. Or like...

It's just the way we need to write it, the conditions.

You guys can tell me what your conditions are and I'll help you with a motion if you guys need help.

Because let's say, let's also go, let's also, you know, look at close to my heart, the property that is just north of it. Okay. So that's a lot of land. There's, you know, 20, 21 acres, I think it is.

And the great big warehouse.

Great big warehouse and the property that's right next, like the big field, that could be developed. And so we're also looking at that. So if somebody purchases that and then parcels it off and that, that ends up being the subject, that that's part of this zone.

Yeah, because that whole pond out front would be able to put buildings in front of it.

Yeah, it could be because that pond is not, you know, that's just, anyway, decoration. Anyway, so.

Well, maybe we don't want 6010 or 6410 at all.

I just think not 6411 because that just opens up that whole area for that. And I don't think we need that right there. We have it at other places.

Okay, someone wanna propose a motion?

So, Steph, if we were to do a motion and then just omit 6411, what's the verbiage that we would?

The verbiage would be the same that you guys have in your model motion, but what it says by adding U6410 to the list of, you can say by adding U6410 with the exception of 6411, and then continue with that. That'll be the motion if 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, all of those are permitted with exception of 6411.

Are we good with that?

Yes, sir. I think that's a general consensus.

OK. So I'll make a motion if no one else has any issues or anything like that. I move the Planning Commission forward a recommendation of approval to the City Council for the request of St. John Properties to amend City Code section 10-12A-2-C permitted conditional and accessory uses by adding use 6410 to the list of permitted uses in the business and manufacturing park zone and adopting the exhibits, conditions, and findings of the staff report. and the additional conditions at 6411 not be included as a permitted use. Is that? That works too. That works too, okay.

Okay, I have a motion by Commissioner Butler. Second. Second by Commissioner Trickler. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? That motion passes. Okay, at this point, We would like to review and approve the minutes from the June 25th. We have one more item. Oh, we have one more item. On the other side of the page. I'm getting ahead of myself.

Yeah, that poor guy. He's like, how did I get lost?

Turn the page over. Okay, we have a public hearing for a code text amendment. 10-14-24-3-D, permitted uses in the Grove Interchange Subdistrict. We turn it over to Mr. Hawkins.

All righty. Thank you, thank you. So the last item for tonight is a code text amendment to add to use 6295 tattooing to the Grove interchange sub-district. That's this whole area right here. So about eight months ago in September of last year, there was an applicant for Vara Salon up along State Street near Walmart who wanted to add tattooing to the Grove commercial sales sub-district Vara Salon was a salon suite with individual units that wanted to offer a variety of beauty, hair cutting, ear piercing, nails, and tattooing services. And tattooing wasn't a permitted use in the Grove commercial sales. at that time. And so they went through the process and the city council approved tattooing in the Grove Commercial Sales Subdistrict with the condition that said use would only be permitted for properties fronting State Street and that the use had to be associated with use 6230 Beauty and Barber Services. Now the current applicant, Dallas Curtis, is requesting the same thing for a different salon located here in the Grove Interchange sub-district. Solitude Salon Studios is a salon located at 2086 West Grove Parkway in the Grove Interchange sub-district. Same thing, this salon offers, these salon suites offer a variety of services. from eyelash extensions, haircuts, hairstyling, manicure, pedicure, and so on, all of which fall underneath U6230 beauty and barber services. Microblading, which is like a permanent cosmetic makeup, is also categorized under U6230. However, tattooing as a body art is categorized as use 6295 and is not currently permitted as a permitted use in the Grove Interchange Subdistrict. And so that's why they're here tonight is they want to apply to allow tattooing as a body art as a permitted use in the Grove Interchange Subdistrict. The applicant did provide a couple of pictures of the tattooing that they would be providing at their salon. Because of technical issues, I don't have them available right now, but fine line tattoos, which you guys would probably be familiar with, is what they were proposing to offer. but you 62 95 is tattooing regardless of fine line tattoos or full body art or so on and so if this use is permitted it wouldn't really matter what kind of tattooing is done and it would apply to the entire zone so the Grove interchange sub-district is one of the primary entrances into Pleasant Grove and while not as large of a zone as the commercial sales sub-district is Pleasant Grove has already recently approved a code of text amendment to permit tattooing within a small area in the Grove Zone. Further introducing tattooing as a permitted use into other sub-districts of the Grove Zone would be taking the next step into further incorporating tattooing as a mainstream service use, similar to barbershops or beauty shops or something like that. Referring to, What other cities have done. Many surrounding cities limit tattooing to like one or two zones or to a particular corridor. Now staff had originally intended to introduce you 62 95 slowly and methodically to the grove zone to preserve the signature image of the city, as it was originally intended. Now since use 6295 has already been introduced to the Grove Zone eight months ago, where it was determined by the city council that tattooing would be acceptable in the limited area along State Street, but no further. Furthermore, tattooing is already permitted in two other zones, and by denying the proposed code text amendment, the city would be following the example set forth by other nearby cities to limit tattooing to specific areas and corridors. As such, staff's recommendation is to deny the proposed code text amendment and I can take any questions.

Jacob, I have a question. Yes, ma'am. I don't know if you know, why did they limit tattoos only facing State Street? I'm just curious.

I believe they wanted to limit tattoos just to a specific area. State Street is one of those commercial corridors and the general commercial zone. is largely located up and down. Actually, let me go over to our zoning map. So the general commercial zone, which would allow tattooing, is located around State Street. And so by allowing it in the Grove Commercial Sales sub-district, it's still located along State Street. So thereby maintaining that one corridor as other cities have done in their boundaries. So I believe that's why.

Did you mean fine line tattooing?

Fine line tattooing is what they want to do.

Right here. We can't say it's limited to fine line tattoos, so if we open tattooing, it's tattooing.

One thing that was noticed in the staff report, with the other location, the Vara Studios, we included it with 6230 Beauty and Barber Services. uh it's mentioned that we could do consider that to incorporate that the reasoning for the staff and city is fill in the blank so if it's included with the 6230 yeah so if the planning commission feels you know this is an appropriate time to continue expanding the tattooing

then you could consider other qualifying provisions, such as tying tattooing to beauty and barber shops, just like what we were doing for the Vara Salon Suites up north.

Is there a city code for piercing and that kind of thing?

Yes, indeed. And actually, let me... Head right back down to where we were, 62. Go further. 60.

What zones is tattooing allowed? You said there was two zones.

Yes, so the general commercial zone and the transitional zone. However, the transitional zone is not an active zone in Pleasant Grove. There are no properties that have that zoning designation. So piercing, that would all fall underneath this category right here. 6230? Mm-hmm. Particularly this one right here.

Mm-hmm. And then 6295, can you go down to like 6290? Oops. 6290. 95 tattooing. So personal services.

Mm-hmm.

Oh, okay.

Interesting. Let me zoom in just a little bit too. There you go.

We could make it really interesting. Thank you. Yes. Any other questions for Jacob?

Thank you, sir. Thank you. Okay, applicant, please state your name for the record, and thank you for your patience. It's been a long night.

Yeah, thanks for having me. Should have started with the guy who just wanted to be here and ask if people could put ink on themselves kind of thing, so. but it was fun to learn how this stuff works. So thank you for having me. So yeah, very similar to Vara. I mean, essentially we're the same business. We just have a bunch of spaces. I grew up in the beauty industry in 1987 when I was three, my parents started a salon and they named it after me. So after I got off an LDS mission, I went to work for them because I had got my real estate license, but it was 08 and that was a terrible time to get in the real estate industry. Stuck that out for a long time. And this to me felt like a marriage of beauty and real estate. And it's kind of a way to have both. So we also had several home salons with my wife and not everyone has that opportunity. So this provides small business owners a place to go have a small business. And, you know, if they don't have a home space, they can do it here in our suites kind of a thing. And we had a tenant that was trying to get a space in our place. They called the city. They said, You're not an improved area. Um, so she went another way and I think she probably went off to Vara. So it's kind of sounds like, and maybe I'm incorrect. If I had just got here before then maybe would have been improved zone instead of where they got approved. Um, we also had a current tenant who was, I guess then called and, and notified that she, you know, was in, in an unapproved area. And so I had to release her from the lease that I had with her. She should have done the homework, I guess. And maybe I should have done the homework that we weren't in an approved area. so she was with us for a few months but we released her and she since moved on and she said hey if you can get it approved I'd love to come back to your space and rent from you again so um yeah I mean it's it's not our primary focus so it's not gonna kill my business but I would love to be able to have the opportunity to go work with anyone and anything that's kind of in this beauty and wellness space for sure so thank you for consider your consideration and let me know if you have any questions

So similar to the VARA, right? Yeah. So we tied it directly to Beauty and Barber Services. Correct. So it was approved, tattooing was approved, but it had to be underneath that 6230 as well. So it can't be in a standalone. Okay. Right. So with that in mind, and you understand that we're looking at that entire zone. So it's not just that area that you're at, we're looking at all that part that's right next to the freeway. So, you know, we could be next to the hair, the hat salon, and then all of a sudden you have a tattoo shop, right? Or Ono's and then tattoos, you know, something like that. And just the, for lack of a better phrase, the vibe, right? You know, the vibe, the stigma that's on there, you know, just a nice big neon sign tattoos here right next to our barbecue. That's kind of the eh that is recognized.

would you be okay if it were to be you know tied again to that 6230 the barber and beauty because that has a different feel yes absolutely and and i understand that this approval then opens the door to other things speaking of my own building they're inside my building so i have a nice beautiful sign we're not gonna have neon signs it's gonna look very different you know they're internal then to the space and it's one small room but I understand approving it opens things up a little bit further than that.

Yeah, all that paraphernalia goes on behind closed doors, right?

Yeah, totally understand. But yes, I would be okay with that. Again, not being our primary focus, but still wanting to market to those that offer that service.

I have a question, Dallas. I've never had a tattoo before. Does it produce a smell, a strong anything?

Not that I've ever noticed. I personally haven't had one either. My wife does have one, but yeah, I've never seen it produce any kind of smells or anything like that. So we've had to be, I guess, cautious in our ventilation with our nail techs and things like that, you know, for example. Because that's very smelly. Yeah, I haven't seen anything of that nature. It's just alcohol.

What do you think the percentage of your business would be tattooed?

So I have 25 suites, and we only had one room, I guess potentially two, that would have been tattooing out of the 25 rooms. So very small percentage.

How much product is sold?

Well, so... In your salon? Yeah, so I wouldn't know because I just basically lease these rooms to these tenants. Now, they do sell shampoos and conditioners and all kinds of esthetician products, face, you know, kind of stuff and all that. So there's quite a bit of retail sales, I guess I would say, that are within the building. But I don't personally have any knowledge of what's being sold. Yeah, okay.

It's services more than retail.

The hairdressers definitely are selling retail products, but they are offering services primarily.

I think the biggest concern is the fact that I know city council wanted to limit it to that corridor state street. And the fact that this is not final for us, it's a nice thing to fall back on. I mean, we do send it to the legislature up, you know. So it has to go to another hearing.

If it's under the beauty barber, does that affect it at all? Or is it still just opening it up for any tattoo shop?

So a tattoo parlor would have to be associated with a beauty salon or a barber salon. That should be very limiting then, I would imagine. Yeah, you're renting to estheticians and barbers and beauticians and stuff and a tattoo artist. Right. But the primary business has to be associated with that.

Okay. that should help with the limitations, I would imagine.

Yeah, well, and we can move a recommendation up and then the city council has final power on this one.

Yeah, understand.

Can you just tell me what your fine line tattooing is?

Sure, and I wish we had the photos, but it's very dainty kind of stuff, usually just like script or small photos, but they're not nearly like big thick sleeves or anything of that nature, so yeah.

I know we asked that out of curiosity. I do have one, a fine line tattoo, but that's impossible to code, just to be clear. It's impossible to code.

No, I'm just trying to, this is a big area, and we already have an area for tattoos, and I hate saying no to business. But I'm trying to see how much of a demand there is. And if it's certain kind of tattoos. I know we can't regulate the kind, but I'm trying to figure out what the demand is. So that's why I asked.

No, that's good. We did it, we said, use associate, well, first, are you guys done with the applicant, or do you guys want to?

Any further questions? Yes, go ahead and sit down. Thank you, appreciate it. Thank you.

So I follow my own rules. Now it's time for you guys, and if you guys have questions, then I'll ask for my time. Sorry about that. I got to follow my own rules.

I have a question. Yeah.

Well, there is no public to hear. We open and close the public hearing, and then we bring it back up to our...

I have a question. Would this include like permanent makeup or just? No, it's different. It's totally different? What does permanent makeup fall under? Beauty.

It also falls under use 6230 beauty and barbershop because that's permanent cosmetic things and that's what beauty is.

Okay, gotcha. So cosmetic goes to face, is that, am I understanding that correctly?

No, the when you get a tattoo, and it's cosmetic, it's not actually permanent, because you're it, they go don't go all the way down, all the way through. So it's usually a six months to two years, then you have to get it redone.

Okay.

All right. Okay. So it's permanent tattoo. Yeah.

Well, do we I don't want to stand alone. I'm, I kind of want to keep it how it is, honestly, but I would be okay with it under beauty and

I'm for denying it in this area.

I'm more for the small business because I'm like, well, I don't get why just on State Street.

I don't get that either.

I'm going to find the transitional area set up shop. But I think in this area and what the city has so delicately choreographed, it really doesn't fit in this area.

I'm just kind of torn. It's just one. It's one out of his 25. It's not hurting him. And it's a big code to do everything for one thing. So there's other places if we can. Yeah, I agree with Alicia. It's fine. The transitional one.

Well, we have an area for it. We have an area, but I, yeah, if it's, I mean, if it's pretty popular, if it's with a beauty salon or something like that, and they have a room for it, more services in one spot.

Yeah, the problem, though, is that it doesn't stay in a room. So it starts in a room, and then if you change the code for the whole area, then you're open to a big tattoo shop with a signage out front and a... And it changes the vibe.

Well, like what Jim said, we can make a recommendation and it goes one step further. So I'm torn as well. And one of 25, if it's tight, my opinion is in this area, I see what you're saying you know for the entrance to the city and at the same time like we've worked hard for that Grove district to be I know exactly what it is I know well we can we can we can make a vote we can make a vote and we can just state you know yay or nay

Do we wanna hear anything more from applicant?

I think we have like. I'm ready. Okay.

Okay, I move for the Planning Commission forward recommendation of denial for the request of Dallas Curtis to admit City Code Section 10-14-24-3-D, permitted uses in the Grove Interchanges Subdistrict by adding use number, 6295 to the list of permitted uses in the Grove interchange sub-district based on the following, if there's any findings.

With denial, you need to have a reason why it does not fit with the use of the Grove or whatever that is.

Because it doesn't fit with the use of the Grove.

Okay, that is fine.

Thank you.

Do I have a second?

I'll second.

I have a motion by Commissioner Nielsen, a second by Commissioner Redding. All those who support the denial, say aye.

Aye.

Any opposed? Nay. Okay, we'll go by vote by chair. Commissioner Trickler, yay.

Nay.

Nay. Commissioner Nielsen.

Yay. Yes.

Commissioner Redding. Yes. Commissioner Patten.

Nay.

Nay.

This is a yes for denial, right? Yes. Yes. Yes.

OK, so you're voting that we do not allow it. Correct.

Thank you. So you voted no on the motion, correct? Yes. OK, that's good.

That leaves you, Jim.

I will vote nay. Or no, I will vote that we. Yes, thank you. You vote in favor of the motion. I vote in favor of the denial.

Okay, so I have three to four.

Three to four. Four support, three against.

Four for denying, three for allowing.

Okay, can you do it again, please? I can take notes, sorry about that.

Yeah.

So the motion was to deny the use. Yes. Correct. Okay. Commissioner Krueger say nay. Nay.

So she is for the use.

Correct.

Should we raise our hands or do we? For, it's yes.

Yeah, yes to deny.

Yes to deny. Yes to denial.

Okay. Yes to deny.

Nay.

Nay.

Yes.

Okay, four to three. Okay, thank you.

Try me in a year.

Okay, that will go to city council. They will hear it again. It'll be a split decision, which means it's 50-50 for them.

So it does go to city council?

Yes, it goes to city council. We are not the final, we're not the approving body.

Yes, this will go to city council, and I'll bring you guys' recommendation. I'll make sure I explain that it was a split, four to three, and explain the reasons why and the reasons against. Okay?

Thank you. All right. Yeah, that'll go to Daniel. He'll discuss all that and give you all the particulars as to when that'll present. Okay, that is our last item for the night. So I already jumped the gun once. I would like to see a motion to approve the minutes from the June 25th meeting.

I'll make a motion that we approve the minutes for June 25th, 2026 meeting. I second.

I'm taking everybody's seconds tonight.

Okay. I vote by Commissioner Patton. I second by Commissioner Shirley. All those in favor, say aye.

Aye.

I would take a motion to adjourn. Move to adjourn.