Planning Board - Regular Meeting

Yeah, I have to order those. So, you're not actually going to do a motion to accept the minutes. You're just going to comment really, right? But we can put it on the record that we have reviewed them and they're consistent. Okay. to change the heading. We got Emily has an ultra list. Oh, yeah. I mean, well, she was at the time at the time. Yeah. She was exchanged on.

Yeah. This is you as the planner tech instead of the planning tech planner tech. Oh, I didn't catch that either. I was I was in a mad dash just I'm technically senior account clerk, but I've never made that point to What's that? I'm technically senior account clerk. Yeah, that's that's what's on on the agenda.

Uh under staff president. Oh, he had you listed as senior clerk up top. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that just was that was never changed. Oh, that's where I was marking the planner tech for a change. Yeah,

I didn't see it was still down there, too. Here we go. Emily, do you want to do the introduction at the start of the meeting or the the pre meeting?

Um, at the start of the meeting because I have some reminders for Okay. participation as well. Okay. Do you want to um before we get into it so everybody recognizes and then reintroduce it at the start of the meeting? What's that? Do you do you want to just introduce everybody's role? Yep. And then in the premeating and then we open it up and you can formally introduce reintroduce everybody and all your notes and stuff. So announcements you're saying make introductions at the pre meeting.

I'm saying yes. Okay. That way two people are not going to know well unless you send out an email know your new role. Yeah. It'd be good idea to let this Tom and um Carly both know Okay. who is and who you your role now. Is the pre is the pre meeting u put on Zoom and it's it's live now but it's not recording until the actual meeting starts. Okay. I wish these speakers or microphones kind of projected a little bit in here.

Oh, we don't have speakers in here. Yeah, cuz like I I don't know if it's just me, but I struggle even a little bit hearing Rick, you know, very softspoken kind of, you know, and and so yeah, I was just thinking because I'm like, oh, move that microphone closer, but then I'm thinking it really would be helpful for like people in in Yeah, because these go directly into that's hooked to the computer, right? For just for online stuff. Yeah. Now there will be a gentleman the gentleman for uh perfect I have zooming in. Yeah I got a wash for him. Yeah.

Hi. Hello. Oh you're over here. Over here.

Jim's not coming. So we kind of slid everybody down a little bit. those plans are big. If you wanted to, you could spread out. I guess it's up to you guys. about the same same amount of last two months that we went out.

The uh get it done for winter. So far there's six on October's right. Oh, good. so far and and we're expecting a few more might come by Friday. Well, we've got four, but then you're going to have two come back. Two you're going to have the house of prayer becoming better more than likely for Broad Street. This one will be coming back and then there's another two that have contacted us and expressed that they want to visit October deadines. I will not be here. Okay.

I've got a few vacations but the house be happy about just [Music] jump to that one. If you want more room, we can slide everybody down. If you want to move down one, I can move Harley down one. Those mats are their plants are big. I think we're okay. You want to?

I think we're I think we're okay. Do you need more room? Yeah, I'll just make it. [Music] Absolutely. [Music]

Yeah, for sure. When you look what concept plans are kind of on the underlay sort of see content went through it went through the showite. blanket because I got all the

money they started and I think that's why they still do e the uh one of that honors.

Okay. Art provided us the board of the special. Yep. I think we were member of the board because now we only have you and I as board members. So we can't approve it because we have no requirement to approve. So what we're going to do at the beginning of the meeting is just review the the minutes and you know just note for the record that the minutes are consistent. Okay. 15 minutes. Yeah.

That's fun. He's uh just really bonus. He's on the spectrum. They also close. Yeah, the world.

Are we waiting on Carly too or are we as far as I know? Yeah. Okay. Does anybody have her number? Um I might

I have a number. I don't know if it's person but I guess 42 to present on this. Yeah, that's what we figured. And I've got I'm sorry. So

for this for the entire So we won't have a whole board. Yeah. One of us chair. Oh, I get what you're saying. I think we get a commentary. Thank you. like this stuff.

Got the cherry down.

Yeah. I'm not sure that only. It's right in the corner there. Yeah. Only for start [Music] usually every I thought it was the other side.

No, it is. Okay. So, the river of his but I think across the world. Oh, it's all [Music]

there. [Music] Jason, this is the right You don't have to say we can

Oh, I see. They're going right up to the side taking over the whole idea. But I was always curious about that information. either existing or proposed. Okay. Yeah, that's the same. What are they proposed for? Hotelation. Yes.

I mean, calling spouses. I've seen conversions to houses, but you know, it doesn't look like use it as a structural. They want they want staff and creative basically hotel units rentable. See what? Yes. What the elevations and you know what is it all going to look like in the end if that's there are elevations. [Music] They did like 3D. [Music] They didn't provide like actual elevated heights and brains and everything that was staff. No, I see that you

Andrew, I didn't get a chance to meet you last time. I'm Tom. Nice to meet you. Um, are we doing are we waiting on Carly or do you want to kick off the premier just only got 20 minutes? Yeah, we'll let Emily, sorry, we'll let uh decide on Okay, which one I'm only going to run everything. So, got it. Yeah, I mean, here five minutes or so.

Okay. get essentially what I think what we're going to start doing is instead of I think Alicia used to actually start going through the entire PowerPoint presentation in the pre meeting we're just basically going to sit down look at the plans review and ask questions um that way you guys have a chance to ask questions about any of the projects and not just sit here and you know only have the opportunity to look at one project and of the half hour a lot Go ahead. Emily, do you want to get started or you want to give We can't start till six. No, the pre the pre meeting.

Oh, yeah. And then if shows up. Okay. Okay. Show us the way. As far as introductions go. Yeah. I'm going to wait now because these folks already know. Well, they do. They don't know, Andrew.

I don't know. What's happen? Sorry. So this is Andy Dur. He's our new director of community development. He comes from DPW as a assistant superintendent of public works. He's been a great asset to our team and we're really excited to have him. Yeah. So a little little background about myself. I was in engineering and planning for 15 years before I came to work for the city. I was working in public works for 10 years. So familiar with uh site plan design from start to finish. construction aspects. So, um, excited to jump here on the board and excited to have Emily and Barb. So, it's

Yep. The bar has been great getting things in line since the departure of the senior planner, keeping things on schedule. Yeah, it's been a uh it's like we were discussing earlier, we have we've had eight applications so far through the last two months was the anticipated a couple more which is will put us on par but we usually have for an entire year um just in the last two months. So, it's been busy. Yeah. Busy months. You know that Adelaide is not one of the big Yes, I do know that. So, I did run into her the other day at uh for S Beach there. Yep. Know that. So, that's great. So, yeah, just looking forward to working with everybody still. So,

yeah, new chairs. One of one of the uh other changes um every month we're going to have um minutes to approve the previous legally you're supposed to supposed to do that. Um it's not that our practice, but as it turns out on tonight's agenda, there's um the special meeting that we had, Emily was our third member. So, and the applicants wanted to proceed. Um now we only have two members that voted, which doesn't constitute a quorum, which doesn't allow us to approve the minutes.

That's fine. But we are going to noted for the record that they they are consistent. Great. Okay. Good. So, let's jump right into 100 Bridge Street, Orange Street Placement. Um, if you guys don't mind, if this is a new format, maybe you could share your vision by working with us to navigate these first couple things in the format that that you want. Does that make sense for the pre meeting? Yeah. Yeah.

Would rather save that for the start of the actual meeting. I'll give a brief summary um at that time but not during the pre meeting. So I think I think essentially what the what the premeating should be for is you guys should review the staff comments and then if you have questions about our staff comments that the premeating is the time to ask those questions. Okay. And then we can get into actually reviewing the project and everything. the poweroint vacation regularly. What I'm suggesting is this is a 180 degree change from the way each of us as members Yeah.

have sat here. So if we're changing the format, we should navigate this together so that we're all familiar with that. Sure. So I don't have there's not anything really totally different except um I don't want to spend time in every meeting going through a summary of each application and then doing it again. Um our point is for the applicant's benefit and for visual aid as far as like putting up the site plans and the pictures and kind of

keeping us on track as far as like what did Chris say or you know what's the variance. I've included all of that. Um, but the premeating should be more discussion based looking at the materials. Okay. So, you want this to be led by the board then, not by you. Yes. Okay. So, you guys were peppering you guys with question. And we'll just see what you have to say live during the meeting. Yeah. You don't see anything that could cause a problem with that that you want us to find out live during the meeting, not during a preme. Well, no. If you if you have questions for us. No, I understand that you that's what you want us to do, right?

But I'm just saying the premeating is generally when it's just us on the board that's in the room. I understand it's reported and it's available for everybody. But if there's anything else that you want to talk to us about prior to the meeting without the applicants, that's often a time to and it is and the applicant has to be allowed in the pre meeting. Yeah. And I'm not saying that they can't hear anything that we're talking about. Right. Right. I understand there's people here in the room with us and that they are welcome to hear any of those things. Right. What I'm saying is for the benefit of their time during the meeting if there's anything we need to work out now, this is a good use of that time. Yeah. Yeah. We can we can have general discussion. We can we can have any type of general discussion about the project that you guys want to have. Okay. During the preview,

right? Let's go. So, why don't why don't we do this? Why don't we start with the first document? We'll navigate our way through this and try to find a rhythm so that we can act in a manner that sounds good. Is this expedient?

Okay. So, first is the site plan review applications. [Music] I don't have any comments for 100 Bridge Street. There's a cannonball watch in the south wall. Still

disaster building. That's interesting. May not remember the cannonball, right? That's got to be historically significant. Is there anything on the suit that stands out? specifications on the existing condition and some detail about new materials

that are going on. Yeah. that the new materials are replacement in kind the existing material class application summary. These are this is the complete staff report. Let's identify also ship those comments. I'm curious, do we know what the level of detail is about the historic architecture in this building that it they can be rep replicated?

You want to answer or do you want what project? We're still on 100 Bridge Street. Okay. Yeah. The question is, do we have um the level of detail that will allow the applicant to refurbish in the historic manner that ship suggested? The only recommendation is as far as the ship letter dictates.

Okay. They wanted to go to go back to the original character. Do we have any detail that identifies just that they really want the posts of the port to be outward facing and the enclosure to be set back behind those? I think if we look at the old inventory form, we see remnants of the existing design. I was curious about that level would be there. Yeah, the biggest the biggest thing to these columns for

was uh basically keeping those columns consistent and then setting the forage back or the enclosure back off those those columns stay So the guide to take it will be crisp detail. Yeah, it appears the existing is for the next application. Next application is 15 Pleasant Street. It's my I guess I should state that we cannot take final action on any of these applications. um a practice that hasn't been followed is that the it's called a 239 Mory portal

where the municipality uh submits the applications to the county planning board and it has not been exercised in the past and they're now being legally compliant by for the historic site gun abuse. So, even the ones that aren't uh bordering county, it's 500 ft. 500, right? 500 feet from a state road, county road, any state or county highway, Sunni. There's a majority of projects that come through the city.

So, so you're saying these in kind replacements fall within those that backs the correct borders. So all of the historic site plan reviews that we have tonight and that are going to be in October, we have already referred them to the county meeting for October 1st. Um so technically we cannot take action on the bill after we hear that feedback. Okay. And the applicants know this. The this applicant does the rest of them will be notified as about that

at this meeting tonight. Uh this one I believe was notified for the site plan but I don't know if um was notified of it was something that we were going through the process and thought kind of last minute. Okay. So, um, as the pending if the new zoning update would be adopted by council and implemented, which would change some of this kind of administrative site plan reviews that maybe some of these aren't necessarily applicable, but ones that's just shingles or just whatever. Correct. Would they still have to go to the county then? Um, that is an effort of streamlining, but yeah, we're going to have to look into that. That I'm not 100% sure of yet because it's not actually going to be for the board,

right? Um so again and even if it does at least it's not another board you know correct it would just be the county you know according multiple board meetings we can take an action that's the recognition um of the seeker we can do that we can approve the seeker but we can't approve the so in the future would we just coordinate and have our meeting have them come to our meeting after the county meeting benefit to also Yeah, because if they if they submit an application to us and everything is deemed complete,

technically it's supposed to go before you guys and you guys deem whether it's going to be seen or whether it's going to be tabled until the next meeting. Um, so that's going to be on you guys. But if we get an application before us that is deemed complete, it'll be sent to you guys for and then we will refer it in the meantime knowing that it has to go to the county. And so that um just to make sure I understand the timeline, uh we would review it. You're saying we can take no action, but we can approve a yes.

Could we give conditional approval for the county of board approval? Uh, no. Because we're technically not supposed to take any action. The reason we can look at the seeker um is because it's an independent review. Okay. Um, if we if we took our action sub um if if the county has comment, then we would have to resend what our what our action was. Okay. and create a new action.

And then so so month one we see an application, we say okay, comments to the county. Month two county sees it, says okay. Month three back to us to the planning board to No, because the county meets the first week of the month, we meet the third week, right? So theoretically it would it would be a delay of that one month. So, okay. So, one month, two weeks later, they review it, weeks later. Okay. Yeah.

So, it's hard because the c the way the county's meetings are set up, it makes it very difficult for us. Um, we actually had instances where uh like House of Prayer, they got approved, but they were supposed to have everything submitted to us two days prior to you guys actually reviewing the set of plans because it had to be to us before it went to county. Okay. For county deferral. So, it's kind of But so, this will be a three-step process for basically every application that comes before this board. So it'll be closed depending on when county meetings are.

Yeah. The other the other change and we should talk about this is the the process is going to begin with the building permit application. the person that our our zoning ordinance identified as the building inspector as the person that makes the determination if it's a historic if it's a 239m referral he's the first person to review the application and the conditions.

Sure. Um, so he'll set the process in motion and they're looking to go back to, you know, what what our local law tells us the process and procedure should take. Okay.

Um, you want to discuss these or go through them once we get the application or that done. I mean, I think this one for Pleasant Street is going to have the same as Grid Street, right? Which is anything that was on the porch process should get called out in the ship's comment album. So, they they see no as long as it's replaced in they don't have any problems with that. Is the applicant on yet? They're not. No. No. Okay. Well, I'll keep checking.

Yes. Yeah, I guess the only difference between that one and this in the uh you know the original inventory form. I don't see a porch in that photo, but Well, it doesn't appear to be an enclosed porch. This is an open, right? One's enclosed and one's not closed, right? So, the first one was enclosed. Second one was open. I checked the staff before.

Okay. rise to the pled by lead of America and to the republic for it stands one nation under God indivisible with liy for all Do we have any roll call, please? Jim Abdala, absent. Absent. Rick Perry, present. Abby Muser, present. Tom Costro,

yes. Carly Liry, absent. Okay. Tonight, our staff um this is the inaugural meeting for the uh the new city community development director and our new planning board director. Welcome and thank you both for um being here to help. And um Barb is our senior. You said it's mislabeled Barb. So, what's the technical? Oh, senior account clerk. It's just the headers. That is correct.

Um, the first item on the agenda is a motion to um to accept the September 8 special meeting uh minutes. At that meeting, we had three voting members um which has been reduced to um two voting members that are present on the board. And without having a quorum, we can't approve those minutes. I do want to state as one of those two people that the minutes as provided to us by the city staff are consistent with the actions that were taken by the um by the planning board members.

Um yeah and I would agree they reflect my understanding. Perfect. Okay. So, with no vote, we'll move into the first application, planning board number 25-06, historic site review for 100 grid street, which is a porch replacement. And I'll for some background information can staff help us.

Um, so 100 Bridge Street replacement, the applicant proposes to replace an existing and full porch with behind building materials for residents located at Point Historic District at 100 Broad Street, parcel zone R2, and is listed on the National Register. And we do have the applicants in attendance tonight. This is a uh aerial view of the parcel in question. It is zoned R2 is a street through from bridge. A little bit about the historical significance. Constructed around 1803 also known as the Benjamin War house. Constructed uh timeline is about mid 19th century residential architecture. It was the site of General Mcome's headquarters during the battle of Platsburg and rumor had that there's still a cannonball lodge in the south ball building. These are some photos of the existing porch conditions. Is that the north porch?

Yes, sir.

It is not against asking if they the front porch at 85 and the north porch like the street side and that's the one with the fancy architectural the acorn drops that it makes the acorn drops are actually around the roof structure you're looking at doesn't make a tie can you can you come up please to the podium and introduce yourself to um our senior account clerk for the minute you

I'm Gina Baker um I think when you asked about the porch being a north porch is because um one of these forms said the important things were uh scalloped birds board with large supporting brackets and acorn drops. That's referring to the main roof of the building. Has like a three-foot overhang.

The decorative front porch, which they say is important to the historical, is actually not this porch, but it's the porch on the other side of the back over there. We redid that porch already. uh and we enhanced the efforts to take it from rod iron to a more historical features. Can I ask you to hold off and let Emily finish the presentation, please?

Next up is um their proposed building materials and methods. So, replacing um the enclosed porch with another enclosed porch, vinyl siding and snow white color, windows as listed, and um roof shingles Sierra gray, which we've seen um a lot. So, we did put out a shipper referral. Um, ship basically said, "We would like the porch to return to a more previous time period um in in structure, but they said, you know, we're understanding of the fact that they want an enclosed porch. Um, so trying to put the enclosure behind those columns is what what their recommendation basically is. in a very wordy way.

Can I just say one thing? Yeah, absolutely. They didn't really say behind the columns. They said set back even fill the canals through the front edge of the post. So the post remain primarily visual element. that was on paragraph 4 section C which we 100% were going to do from day one. So no problem.

Shifting gears slightly. Um so we do if you will take a board if you will take a look at the uh staff report there is standards for review for the department of the interior classifying um this historic site review. Um there is a table listed with questions to consider um that the board will have to go through tonight to make a determination of the treatment of this historic property. Staff is recommending rehabilitation as the standard for the review. So essentially you guys have to go through just does that include Um it's this uh recommendation of the staff that the application is complete remates the requirements um of the historic site review process and that any um comments or modifications request by the planning.

Okay, that's all. Yeah,

we uh to do a little housekeeping here. Um we cannot take action tonight on anything other than the seeker. But what we can do is, you know, establish the format moving forward as to, you know, if staff has any comment or the board has any comment, u recommendations, things that they would like to see bring the standards of Shipo and your desire to renovate the the property together. and we obviously applaud you for your efforts and you know bringing the the character of the building back together. So thank you for doing that. Um so that's that's where we're at pretty much. Um do you have anything more to add than Emily's presentation? A few

few things. Sure. Thank you. Okay. So um I I think to maybe more comfortable with the house in general. Um looking at it from more than just the two angles that we have seen it from. Can I show you these pictures?

Absolutely. Sure. Want to submit these as part of your Okay. Good. Um, so looking at the historical uh papers from Albany and them thinking that we want to take it back a little bit, one of my questions became what decade do we take it back to and year? Okay. And and one thing I don't think you guys are seeing is um am I wrong interpreting am I wrong interpreting that they are saying it's okay to enclose it because we understand that you're using it in this decade. So we have no questions as to whether or not it's going to be reinosed. Am I okay to say that? Understand that?

Well, it's a good question. What we'd like to do is um first lot have Barb log these in as you know part of the testimony right um and then um we will try to help you answer that question and do you have anything more you'd like to like add yes I can explain the pictures have more note these will be part of the permanent objective. You wanted Not everybody brings their own photos. Thank you. These are all different. They are all different. Should we number them for reference?

Yeah, I'll put it I'll just put them here. Okay. So, you're submitting five additional pictures that were in the kind of Okay, number that's the other this second picture. Okay, got it. And so this is the one that's not being modified at this time,

right? No, this is facing east. No, I think I think this is the east porch. This place is pike. No, pike and this place is bridge. So that one, the picture on top is the north porch, which I believe has the most historical significance, right? And then the picture on the bottom faces the east, which is not the one that they talk about in the um

1970. the blue, if you look at the blue sheet, I guess it's probably the back end of the this sheet right here, uh, when they're talking about the north porch, they're talking about the one that's not being modified as part of this project. So, just to make this clear because I believe runs east west. No, I went by. Yes. Okay. And this this porch that we're calling the east porch is on the north side of the house. Okay. North. All right. Yes. Yes. Right. So that dot that blue dot on there is the north side of the house. That's where the enclosed porch is. Yes. Okay. Yeah. That's what I'm just trying to

And then the other porch that you're referring to, this one that's already been redone is on the west side of the house facing Pike Street. Okay. Got it. Okay. Okay. I want Can you tell me which picture numbers correspond to picture? Sure. Picture two is the west porch. West porch. Okay. And picture one is picture one shows the entire house from I don't know what this is from. Okay. But 1800s 18. Yeah, 1800s is good enough for me. Picture three. This would be the This is the driveway. Um, picture three is just Okay. So, this one here is the east porch. Okay.

So, the reason I brought this is to show uh that vinyl signing is all over. All of it. And this is the south porch. Okay. Okay. Those are just to show you all the ports of the house. Got it. And this picture here is just to show you that this is the house we're talking about. Okay. The house next door, which is also same time period, vinylsided porch. Got it. So, Barb, thank. Yep. So, um, number three would be the south porch south, believe. Is that right? This one with the driveway is on the south side of the house. We get that right? North south. Yes,

that's west right there. Yeah. Okay. And then picture five is showing a shared driveway with the house next door. Okay. Okay. To show same time period also vinyl sighting. And number four. Oh, here's number four. Number four would be the This would be the east porch. East. This is the south. This is the south. So, this would be the east porch because the this one's the west porch. Yeah. And number four, east showing the vinyl siding. East porch showing vinyl. Yeah.

Okay. So, I think the north porch is the one in question. the neocclassical north porch is a notable scratch.

Okay. So, just going back to your question then the ship letter um and this is where I'll probably refer to staff on their interpretation of the letter because they read much more of these uh all over the place. They are recommending that they return the porchwood's appearance prior to enclosure, but they also say if this is not preferred, we offer the following comments/recommendations. So that is up to the board, unless I'm missing anything to say shipo doesn't write these rules, the board can take the recommendations and use them or make their own determination. Are we getting that right? Correct.

Okay. So hopefully that answers Yep. Go ahead. So, I'm praying and hoping that they're going to be able to reimpose the course as it is now. And then we get to the windows. Okay. And the windows that are on there do not look like this. They do not have the divisions. Okay. U there but the the main house the windows have those worries

the divisions. So I would think that we should put not put those back. I think we should put typhoon. Yeah. Right. But that's what I think we should do. That's just the house. I don't think that's terrified anymore. Mhm. That's another question.

Shipp comment on the windows, right? Decision you guys want to make that and that would make sense if the it was an add-on. So it's your desire to add 66 window and that doesn't stop us. You guys don't want 66. I don't want No, your your rationale is is right on the money because you wanted some consistency, right,

to complement the original structure. And you said you're all set with the presentation. So nothing else. So it's okay. I'll ask a couple questions unless you all had anything else you wanted to share. Okay. So they recommended um replacing the foundation of the uh porch as well. Is that possible or are you looking to just is that that's part of it? Part of it. Okay. Got it. to include the steps. Steps need to be replaced. Yes. Okay. You're going to replace them with concrete or

something right now question or conversations. Okay. I don't believe in any way. I agree with you. Um, we just want to help you formulate your plan and hopefully we can make it acceptable to I would say I have matched the style of the front other porch on side north.

Um, anyone have any comment on porch? I want to make them consistent the steps with the beast.

I'm sorry. What was that? Gina can't hear you. Just choose your railing. Oh, I see what you're saying. Okay. I I was thinking more to match the railing style of the front porch, but then I don't know if two steps need a railing. I guess we'll figure that out. Yeah, the code enforcement officer. I believe there's certain thresh as well. So, looking at the the other photos, oh, I don't know which one's more historic. This is from 1978, but the that was taken from obviously older it looks like.

And I think that's I think that might be about 1811. Well, look. Yeah, look at that. They didn't even have uh railings. They actually didn't have fancy neither. We just had Yeah.

Well, yeah. So, that's what it said that it was added on or was modernized in the mid 19th century, some mid 1800s, more of a cottage style feeling, but that actually right [Music] Well, based on on Chipo's letter, you know, they're they're basically saying if you essentially took out the infill siding and windows and door and just were left with what was like the older porch, you redo the porch to look like that and then you put your infill back in and make it

not at the front of the post set back from the I mean I I see that they are already like you said exposed not that much though they you can hardly see them so I think we could probably settle back a little bit but still maintain the structure of supporting the header so what is the um you have a contractor you're working with that you've we did planned all this through so what is their plan to kind of well the contract that we had said no problem just redoing those posts making them with you know molding okay you know so that's their plan yes to

is to if it's if it's too far deteriorated replace little pieces before that can be okay so it'll be tear down and then they'll just replicate the existing from and

there's no wood there to be salvaged it so they'll take pictures or they'll cast it or find something that's appropriate And then your question was about the infill. So then they would build the post up like the porch as though it was not an enclosed porch I guess and then enclose it with the inkind putting vinyl siding on the siding areas there. And you're saying that will match the other two of the three sides of the structure at that point. And that's shown in the south port. Yeah. Sh the south in the east. Okay. Got it.

All right.

Yeah. If we have more of the post showing the windows won't be flush with the post right now windows will be inset a little bit. Yeah. So is that acceptable? Yeah. Yeah, I mean I think that's one of the things that the ship letter I'll just read the ship read it right off from the ship letter from this um so it's.3 I think that they refer to and that's what they're going back to. So yeah, thanks for pulling that up.

We understand that the function of an enclosed porch may be an important factor for this house and that the infill is necessary for this function. We recommend that the porch reconstruction include infill that is more contempor complimentary to the historic building and utilizes compatible materials and windows. The infill should continue to not obscure the existing historic details. We recommend setting the infill panels back from the front edge of the post so the post remain the primary visual element. They don't give you a distance, but I think you know what they're saying from this is that the infill doesn't obscure it to or hide it in that case.

It's not historically significant to have those windows aligned with the posts because they are the infill. So having them subservient to the visual post is acceptable. So like if like half of the post shows can you think that's construction? I'm thinking about the wall. It'll be the wall thickness and how the window, right? Yeah. It's gonna put most of the post on the outside because the wall will go behind it. Yeah. Oh, that's right. I remember you said and that's also going to make a lip. So, what Yeah. The only thing I'd be concerned about is the floor raining out. I think

if we go back too far, we're going to create a problem near the floor. So, so rain right issue. Yeah, it it comes down to the detailing like what is the depth of the post versus the infill wall and can you do a narrower wall than a standard 2x4 or do you notice wall? Okay. Okay. For it to be insulated. Be insulated. Okay. Got it. Yeah. Yeah. I my concern just out of durability would be creating that lip bend. So you just have to have that flashed well, I guess. Yeah.

So they could Yeah. Your contractor could come up with a detail that would make sure that it sheds water and doesn't create an issue with that setback, I guess. Mhm. Unless you eliminate that go straight go straight down, right? That means the post the post and the foundations well the post will set out a foundation which is the sign. So the post will go down farther than they do now. Right. Potentially they would go they the post would be more structural. They would be you know directly on the sun too. Yeah. They would so so we won't have that 18 in of raccoon home. There you go.

There you go. Yeah. But you're not dropping the floor of your horse. No. just going right sitting down on the farm all the way to Judge Sh. Yeah. And putting lattice work, right? For the rest. Now, I would think that that would kind of change the architectural character like because we're now built up. Well, I think Yeah, I think you'd want that the white the recreation. You wouldn't want to push the length of that post down. You'd want it to stop there and maybe it still continues down, but it is some sort of different color in lower levels.

Different colors. Well, I'm just I'm just saying if you're if you're kind of looking at um to to extend the height of these posts, you know, build them down to this, you'd be changing the I shouldn't draw on that, changing those proportions or changing that. So I I think you would you would still want to retain this ratio or relationship of that column detail and and maybe you're structurally behind the scenes, you know, you're extending this down and going on your sauna tube, but that's covered by a skirt board or something like because otherwise you would be changing the overall historic character how it looks.

Yeah. I mean, ideally, there would be, you know, an elevation or section shared that kind of depicts this so that we're all on the same page with the contractor and whatnot. However, I don't know that you the nature of how he's you're working with him. Is he is he kind of sketching up stuff that you're we have narrowed it down because the first guy Yeah. I won't go into detail. That's right. The first guy didn't work out. Yep. Sure. Um, so we're going to work on another contractor. I've got some calls into some other people some Okay, makes sense.

Yeah, I I don't have a problem with, you know, doing the infill again. Okay. Following the guidance of Ship Oto, kind of giving priority to that historic frame and then you do your little infills and then using the 6x6 windows is a good idea as well. Seems to correspond with the historic photos we have.

And given the other photos of the other side of the house are very helpful for me, I think this board has not traditionally recommended any vinyl on any historic building if it was an original part of that home. Uh, however, because this is an add-on and because you've got these additional areas, the photos are very helpful to show that it's matching with the rest of the building and it's not, you know, the centerpiece that is uh, you know, only going to be in vinyl while the rest is all wood or something like that. So, that would be, I guess, more in line with some previous board decisions. And so the photos are very helpful for me for that as is Shippo's letter kind of detailing ways that you could still retain the character of that house without uh you know making you go to maybe a a material type that you're not looking to do. I got another question on unrelated to the forge, but when we get to replacing the eaves,

which are dental, when we get a grant, sure. Sure. Just to replace those and get that painted, do we have to come in front of this board? It's a very good question and the answer is probably yes, but a replacement not any kind. So structural change. I'm just taking the board off. So essentially what'll happen is you would go to the code enforcement office with your building permit and then he'll make the determination whether it needs to be brought to us for historic site plan review. Okay. Depending on when you do this because there is a it won't be in this space.

Right. So there is a ongoing change to the zoning uh code that is being looked at that would potentially mean some type of historic inind replacements would not have to come to the board anymore. things that are, you know, roofing and and not structural one for one replacement. One for one of replacement of those things. So if you're taking wood off and you're putting wood on again come from the code from the planning office versus having to come before the planning board, right?

So then we would be able to review those and make those type of determinations, right? Max little housekeeping for Barb's sake. Um to to summarize the application. Um point one, um the window paints in the uh porch replacement windows, um they're going to be more consistent with the main house and be a 6x6 uh window pane. The steps will be consistent with the steps on the east side of the building. No,

West. West. The west side of the West is the front. Those steps are cement. So, you're going to want cement back. Oh, I'm the one that said to match the front, but I didn't match the front and then match the railings. Okay. So, not the steps. So, so the stairs the stairs two stairs. They can be. Okay. Is that what's on the other side? That's on the west side but not on the east side. What's currently there? Yes. They're concrete at that existing full concrete.

I wasn't sure if it was like a slab of like granite or something. Okay. Yeah. I guess my my question is more on the more in the line of consistency. Is is the concrete different than what's on the uh Peru street side of the building? Street anymore. Well, what sorry I go back that far. So Pike Street is cement and the one on that side is cement and the one on this side is wood. Okay. Which side? The west, the east side is wood and the west side is

we're going to have nightmares tonight. Yes. So, your desire is replace it in kind with the same material that's there. I think that people want more. Okay. Fine. See what happened. Do you want Do you want just steps or can we come out a little bit? Two steps. I think you're okay either way. Either way, I think wood and cement are fine. I think stone are fine. Yeah. And NFD treated or does it have to be something different?

I mean, I think it should be painted white. Steps with white railing to match the There you go. So, back to your number two. started out saying steps consistent with with the whatever side east is east ballisters. Yes. Yeah. With wood. That's west. This is west matching. This was east. Yes. Are the east that's consistent with the east porch. Different house with wooden matching. This is their This is the other porch. That's the house. Are those the ballisters? East. No, it'd be nice. Gez. Are those historically working?

Yes, they do. Those are That's the I don't know what year we did that, but it was rod iron. Okay. And we went back to that. Well, that matches these. So, three barb or point two was steps consistent with the east porch. Yes. With wooden with steps. And what is the what railing system made of? White ballasters. Wood ballasters. And it's consistent. Yeah. Wooden steps and ballusters. Ballasters. White. Okay. Okay.

Point three is the infill and um you guys were more involved in the discussion. If you could some bar that the records are clear. the the infill will be set back from the historic porch recreated porch columns. Um and the overall uh height of the historic porch column should be maintained. Maintain the aesthetics. Well,

maintain the height. Okay. So I think those are the added notes. The along with the staff report we have this rehabilitation standard summary and analysis. We can add to the record or the summary can be made at the time of the next hearing after the county planning board meeting. Or is it up to you as to how you want to proceed with that?

This kind of I didn't know my papers. This back to step just doing the same thing. do this together. Yeah. Yeah.

Point number one, um, property will be used as it was historically or be given a new use that requires minimum changes to its. So, regarding property use, there's no change in property use. Correct. A very appears met. Okay. So you're checking which one? Appears met. Appears met. Historic character of the property. This is uh will be retained and preserved. The removal of decorative materials. Distinctive.

Distinctive. I'm all over the place. Yeah. um or alteration of features, spaces, um relationships that characterize property will be avoided. You're not taking any They're putting it back. They're putting it back. So, um we're also going appears Matt here. Yes, appears Matt. So, number two appears Matt.

Okay. Each property will be recognized as a physical record of its time, place, and use. Uh changes that create a false sense of historic development, such as adding conjectural features or elements from other historic properties, will not be undertaken.

Yeah. My only comment is um the wooden ballastrades. I mean, they're matching existing on the house, so I think it's okay, but I I don't know that that style of wooden ballastrate is historically, you know, necessarily from this period. So, it's kind of conjectural, but um because they're just matching what's existing now, I think that it's acceptable. But if it was the new element to be introduced at this time, I wouldn't want to see that. Perfect. So appears met. Appears met. Yeah. So to justify that. Yeah. No, I I think it's fine. Yeah.

Chase or property that have acquired historic significance in their own right will be retained and preserved. Here's Matt. Info. You want to comment with infill? Well, I mean, I don't know if those are historically significant, but it's accepted as an existing condition. It's always been one of my problems, as you know. It's, you know, we have a an inventory that was taken in 1976 on a property that was built in the early 1800s that was modified at least three times. So, I'm not sure

what Yeah. What is period? What is alteration? was you've done a good job giving us. It's a yellow It's a yellow fab house. Yeah, it was rebricked. So, I don't want to go back to five. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. What point in history? Exactly. Uh distinctive materials, features, finishes, construction techniques, or examples of craftsmanship that characterize a property will be preserved.

So, that's appears met. Uh deteriorated historic features will be repaired rather than replaced. Am I reading this for the record or was it just for us to I think both.

Okay. Um where the severity of decoration require de deterioration requires replacement of a distinctive feature. The new feature will match the old in design color texture and where possible materials. Replacement of missing features will be sub substantiated by documentary and physical evidence. It appears that it's

appears Matt. Appears Matt. Yeah. Um chemical and physical treatment if appropriate will be undertaken using the gentlest means possible. Treatments that cause damage to historic materials will not be used. That's saying you're not going to use an acid treatment to clean the cannonball. Just say candy balls painted. Now architectural resources will be protected, preserved in place. If such resources must be disturbed, mitigation measures will be undertaken.

That's the cannonball. That's the cannonball. Pierce I was gonna say NA, but actually no. I think that that's gonna have to be a pierce B. Yeah. Okay. New additions which are any exterior alterations or related new construction will not destroy historic material feature or spadial spatial spatial

okay relationships that characterize the property. The new work will be differentiated from the old and will be compatible with the historic material, features, size, scale, and proportion in massing to protect the integrity of the property and its environment. I I think you did a good job walking through these infills

and that's basically what that might be. Um it differentiates from the original but it matches the and it makes it more I I would say more weather protected. Sure. And I would say in this case because it is an exterior alteration that we're talking about and because this is vinyl siding that this board is approving. I think the comment here would be that it is matching pre-existing vinyl siding on two other existing additions at that home and in that the infill that it's and right and in the replace infill. Right.

You have that bar? No, I'll wait the recording. The idea is unless in the future a different homeowner wanted to remove the infills, they you know, you could and you'd have the porch looking like problems. Exactly. There you go. New additions or adjacent or related new construction will be undertaken in such a manner that if removed in the future, the essential form and integrity of the historic property and its environment would be unimpaired. Also known as number 10. Yes, that's what I was speaking to.

Appears to have been met. Yeah.

Okay. requ. Okay. Um so this form then becomes part of the permanent record as well. Um it's not a it's not a seeker. Um what this form does it characterizes the nature of the work as being rehabilitation versus something other

uh reconstruction or yes restoration. So preservation rehabilitation restoration. I think we can pretty much say that um we've established this as being a rehabilitation project and um it meets the criteria of rehabilitation. So you want to open the sub you did.

Yes. Okay. Um, well, do we need to uh is that before or after? We're bringing the secret first. I think we do the seeker first and then Yeah. Well, it says it says public hearing, then motion to accept seekers. I think you guys are going to sit down now. Sorry. Okay. So, Um, are we saying we do hold the public hearing? It looks like public hearing first.

Yeah, public hearing is on here first. Unless I'm missing that on the agenda. We will conduct we will conduct a public hearing. Um, I'll open the floor public hearing if anyone wants to comment or discuss the project. Anyone online that might have an interest in this one? No.

Okay. Um there being no comments, we'll close the public hearing and we have a seeker um unlisted. Um I believe this was type two. This one is okay. No further actions required. Okay. Can I have a motion on the seeker? I'll make the motion uh to accept the seeker and list it as a type two action. I'll second that.

Okay. Roll call. Rick Perry. Yes. Abby Muser. Yes. Tom Costkra. Yes. Okay, that is the extent of action that we can take tonight until after the county planning board. So, do you want a motion to take? Yeah, I just want to see if they have any before we close the meeting out. Did you have anything that you wanted to add? No. Do we do anything? Do we just wait to hear from somebody?

What's our next step? So the you guys have been referred to the county planning board. The meeting is October 1st. Um they're not required to go to that, correct? So we'll hear back from them and then you guys will be on the next meeting agenda again at which time you guys have already presented to them. So hopefully it would be a quick a quick and we'll let you know when that next meeting is. We meet monthly. So we meet monthly. Okay. Yes. to actually the 27th of October. October 27th.

So does this formally get tabled that part of it? Yeah. So then I'll make a motion to table this application table application 25-06 until after the county planning board meets. Okay. Is there a second?

Okay. Roll call. Rick Perry. Yes. Abby Merur. Yes. Tom Castro. Yes. Thank you. I'm getting ice cream now. Thank you for coming in. Thanks so much.

So Rick, our next agenda item, the applicant is not online with us. So we might want to Skip to agenda item three since folks are here representing that application right now. Okay. Um I agree with you. You verify that the there are no participants online. Um they aren't present unless we have to let somebody in or anything. Sorry. Do we have to let anybody into the meeting room or can anybody just join? I had to let them know. There's no one.

Okay. Yeah. Are either of you part of 15 Pleasant Street applicant? They're a family friend. I'm going to reach out to them. Okay. So, just let know that we're on the Zoom.

We did we did verify with them because they did send an email asking if the Zoom link that we sent them was the correct one. We did respond back letting them know that that was they are on the town. So, if they Yeah. Can I ask just a question just because this is a new process for me. So, um, since this application can't be voted on tonight anyways because we have to refer it to the county planning board for it to then come back in front of us again. Is there any reason that we need an applicant here for us to review that?

That's yeah, legally speaking, I guess like that's I mean that's the main question that I have. It's my understanding that that's kind of a board decision. Okay. Okay. There's different boards do different things. I'm a member of a board that requires that the applicant be is there, but I've also been into other boards that don't the Okay. Um I'm I'm not 100% aware of a law that prevents that.

Another thing I'm thinking of is this is if all that we're doing is we're going to classify this again as a type two action and kick it down the road a month. Do we need a homeowner here for that? Unless there's a series of questions that we need answered as a board. This is a new question, so I'm not trying to force my way here, but I'm just saying we're not going to be making any decisions on this application anyways because we can't. So, the only thing that we're looking at is is this rehabilitation or not? Exactly. Is this type two seeker or not?

And I think they responded that the work that they're doing is 100% in kind. Yeah. Yeah, Shipo Shipo's comments were actually Shipo didn't have any comments. So, in terms of applications, this is a little simpler than the last one. Yes. But again, I'm not trying to set a big precedent here. Yeah.

I'm just trying to think of one of the things this board has tried to do since both you all are new here is tried to make get rid of any tape that we can. That's an administrative hurdle for people that are doing projects unnecessarily. So, if that's the only case here, um, don't want to have anybody wait another six weeks if we're not even making any determinations for this, right? Yeah, that's my that's my thought process. Is this also a public hearing? Yes, but we have to advertise. I mean, we can we can

Yeah. And I think Well, I know that we were talking more about public hearings since the last meeting was held specifically because there wasn't a public hearing advertised. So, I don't know if that's being done maybe more proactively now. So, that way, yes, there can be a public meeting because it's been announced. Excuse me. On the notice, all three projects were listed. Yes. Yeah. So could you would that mean that that was listed for a public hearing? So because it said items because that could if people had actually shown up to talk about the public hearing. Yeah.

And we would essentially require that you come back. So at a minimum establish we would have to establish the the public and I think regardless we've got an applicant who's here in front of us. I'm not going to do, you know, something for someone who's not here before anyone who is here. But just as a question for staff, is that something that would cause any sort of legal issues for the city? That's the the main landmine I don't want to step on. So,

in my in my opinion, Tom, um either you do it now or you do it in the October meeting. I don't I don't think it's any more of a delay for the project. Project can be approved either you go through the entire hearing now or it would be done after the county anyways because the county would be completed. That's when the action's taken and you're going to have one possibly two move members that aren't here for discussion vote on it. So, but I guess what I'm asking is if any applicant is not here and then I'm I'll move on, but if that applicant is not here tonight, it is still going to go to the county planning board regardless of our decisions. Yes. made or not made tonight.

So, this is only going to affect one month's applications. They're starting construction in the spring. Well, right. Well, they said the footers in the fall. No. Yeah. I guess I the narrative I'm reading. I don't see that, but I'm not sure. That's fine. Maybe I misread it anyways. But okay. You know, maybe they have that. We might have it in our board bylaws. Oh, now that I think about it, it I think it was talked about if we have a copy of the board bylaws. Jim could answer it off the top of his head, but um I think whether an applicant's here or not, as Andrew was mentioning, some boards do, some boards don't. Sure.

I think we discussed it as a part of the bylaws. Okay. It says strongly encouraged to attend the applicants. Got it. Okay. So, that's not required, but that's good. Okay. I think if All right. Sorry to hold the board up. No, no, that's good. Good conversation. Okay. So, did you want to discuss that now or just let's go to the third item so that for the folks that are here they can we can revisit it, right? Yes. Okay. Um, sorry guys.

We have um planning board application number 25-08, sketch plan review. Um, I don't know how to pronounce the last name. Do it goes by D. Dirk. Yeah. He goes by Derek. Sorry, not Derek. Okay. Derek Tren, correct? Never.

Okay. Um, we're going to do this one a little bit different, I think, rather than us have a formal discussion. We didn't have an opportunity in the premeating. If we kind of go over the scope of the project. We got a staff presentation first, don't we? Oh, after a staff presentation. Okay. Yes, sir.

So, this uh 25-08 sketch plan review is for four on street hotel edition applicant requests to construct a new historical hotel in addition to the existing one 1000 square foot beauty shop building. The parcel is zone C plan EVA here tonight representing the Okay, here is the property located at four broad street outlined pin yellow. This is the building frontage pictures. [Music] There was a variance for this application with a sideyard set back no less than five feet and not extending more than two feet from the existing building into the sideyard. You'll see some renditions here of the proposed structure of OnX boxes for the validation.

Staff is recommending this as a type two action. GPW said that the owner will be responsible for the cost of any water and sewage upgrades. No other departments commented. And then here is a list of our staff comments relating to the sketch plan

which we can go through. Sorry, can you go back to the comments?

Checking to see if I had anything else. I'm good. If you guys aren't,

you have another I I'd like to make make a point. Um, I will not be here next month and being that this is a carryover application going into October, um, I'm going to I'm going to relinquish the chair on this and ask Tom to uh, take the take the chair for this meeting. Just for consistency sake, do you have a problem with that? We'll figure it out. I have a I have a work trip I have to leave for that day. Uh I'm still working out the timing of So I guess if if that's a concern if and if Abby doesn't have any conflict, I think it would make more sense for Abby.

Yeah. When's our meeting is October? The 27th, he said. Yeah. No, I don't have a conflict. Okay. So being you guys aren't going to be and Jim has recused himself of this project. You're only going to have two people who are going to be able to involve the project next month anyways. It would be us and Carly if we're going to so I'm not certain that I'd be able to leave next week and I would work out maybe something else um for this like you're joining remotely like we're joining remotely or some other sort of option but I guess from a a chair perspective I I'm reluctant to leave anybody in the lurch. That's all. Gotcha. Sorry. Thank you. Yeah.

Okay. So, Abby will be chair of this uh this this question. Forward you as big of a board as we can get. We're looking for Sorry, I was going to say.

All right. Well, so we had the staff staff presentation. Yes. Um, yeah, they're happy to go back to anything. And you said this the last slide. Yes. Okay, got it. And we Okay. And this is just sketch plan. So, we don't have any of the other items after it. This one is also referred to again. Yep. And then we have the we have a seeker classification. Okay. So, this is just general discussion. So, yeah. Is there anything you'd like to share as well? Sure. Would you mind going back to the site? Absolutely. Excuse me. Can you just state your name for the record?

Yeah. So, my name is Michael engineer with AA. I also have Derek as a engineer as well with um so just as a brief overview. So, the property on the corner of Broad and Turkey Street is an existing nail salon. It's been a number of commercial businesses over the years. The owner is looking to retain the property but expand upon his income base for property. So as proposed would be five hotel units. There would be a first floor unit which you can see is the darker magenta that would extend under to the north and that would be for a first floor handicap accessible apartment along with the main entryway which I'll discuss a little bit on the next slide. But then three uh conx boxes for lack of a better term to comprise the second story which would go above the roof line of the existing. So the roof would be modified from the existing building. Um the the three con boxes would make four total propells and then the center box will be a hallway. And I guess the on the site plan is the intent is for the entire structure to be freestanding and not there on the existing building. So we do have some steel columns on this side and then steel columns built into the first floor edition on the other side. So as stated in the staff review, we did go in front of the zoning order with the fields and got a variance relief from the sideyard as it's required to be either zero ft or

if not 12 ft or greater. And we had um we had outlines about seven feet between the steel structure and then the boxes above the so the structure as a whole um to the property line. So, they approved no less than five feet with no larger than two feet extending off of the existing building. Um, as far as the site functions, the the beauty salon will function as it does today. There's an existing parking lot to the north side or the back side of the building that will remain as is. There's an electrical transformer off that property line. And as you could see in the red and yellow patching, there's an existing planter that we saw in the pictures that would be moving. So by and large, the site would function very similar to what it does today. We have maintained, I believe it's a 30 foot sight triangle for corner lots. So the first floor would be angled to not restrict the sight line of the intersection. Um guess that's pretty much it as far as the site layout goes. I did see the comment in in staff review about the driveway entrance. That is the existing driveway entrance to the back parking lot. Um if the board feels it It would really be a restriction to the vehicular access. We can discuss with the owner to slide it further to the south, but as long as that existed. Would you mind going to the next slide?

Thank you. Uh so you can see the entrance here is the existing building for the beauty salon and then the addition would be off to the side with that angled angled portion and then the main entry for the hotel units will be at this entry vestibule which faces the back parking lot. It will have passage through with laundry and mechanical room. And then this is the first floor handcap accessible. I'm telling you, and then a stairway to get up to the the center hallway and then four apartment units on the second floor. Sorry, not apartment. Thank you. Thank you.

Um, is the downstairs one an apartment unit? You'd said the department earlier. Sorry, I No, that's that's okay. Yeah, thanks. by mistake they're hotel units. Okay,

so that's sort of the layout and understanding this is sketch and we're looking for any defect as we continue with the bulge design. Uh we did review the staff comments. I guess I would request a little clarity on the comments about the existing conditions documented by licensed surveyor. There is a historical survey that we've utilized for the boundary of the property. As far as documenting existing conditions, us being licensed engineers, it's typically from my understanding, we can document the existing condition. Okay. I used I so I didn't realize I saw the battery uh the battery. sure if you guys have had a license professional sign on plans or have you just took that off of my so my concern is just making it sure because that old plan doesn't show the existing building but making sure so yeah so this is the historic so there's the building property line this was actually a subdivision 1995.

Okay. So when you guys did this, you went out and found monumentation for your site. We haven't done the field work yet. Okay. But we that's what we've used for the base plan of the sketch plan and then we'll go. Okay. So when you guys go do the field work for the detailed plary plan, all that will be Yeah. Okay. That's that's kind of what Okay. Do you want to keep that? No, I think we we have that. Yeah, you're good. So thank So I guess I'll open for any questions.

I have a question. You said the conx boxes are not going to be attached. Um making it a completely separate structure or is the connectivity through the handicap unit to the conlex box. Yeah. So they they tie it at that point. Right. So this from this vestibule the stairway will go up into this is this stairway into this center section.

We just don't have any connectivity into the beauty salon below and we're not bearing on these walls. So we'll have columns here and then we'll have beams that run connecting these columns to these columns to these. Is this a flat roof on the existing building? No, I believe it has a trust roof or rafter roof. So then this will come the new roof for it in essence. Correct. It'll have to be modified. Yeah, I think as a whole the roof will be modified, but then it won't be partly under the seventh story,

but the exterior walls are going to be buried with the new construction. So there are four conxes. Three will make up the second story. Well, so this looks like just an infill. Well, there's not actually ConX there. No, this is this So this will be made out of a container. This will be a container. So three containers.

So the walls aren't being shown of the third container, right? Oh, so there are three containers. It looked like it was just two and then that was the space between right was created between them and that I don't think that doesn't the drawing shows just two con center four door it's intended to be I think these are supposed to be the three one two three on there I it's a little deceiving so the floor plan doesn't represent three it just interesting okay So all of the all of the typical you know utilities survey all of that stuff is forthcoming

right you pointed out you know landscape lighting utilities it was all typical stuff that I mean it's just the expect plan we have and it looks like so yeah this the zoning central business district doesn't require any open green space I mean it's correct na in the table correct so we documented the existing site right after and then so how is how is storm water planning to be managed or improved? Well, it's already all existing. So, we're not going to change the runoff in any manner.

Can we improve the runoff? Um, I think as you can see there is some green space shown that if we looked at the pictures there looked like at one point in time a prior owner had used it as a driveway which people do tend to still pull in from what the the applicant has told us. So, we are looking to remove this strip here of asphalt and put in green space. And then I believe one of the staff comments on the planter box on the Turkey Street side was to look at doing more green space there. So, I think in all we will add more green space than the current. Yeah. So, I'm I'm just talking about not green space, but storm water management treatment best practices like would anything be considered or incorporated because we're like a block off the river?

Yeah. Um I mean with we can discuss it with the applicant within that green space because we live sort of the rain garden. I don't know if that's the best approach here or not. Yeah. I'm just saying that green space is isn't necessarily storm water. I mean just aesthetics. So maybe that's not the best approach in this site for storm water management. What kind of things did you have in mind for storm water management in terms of I don't know talking about tying into the tying into the sewer system directly off the roofs or I don't know. Well, no. That that'd be accelerating it. Okay. I don't think you'd want to do that. Like what what options? I'm not a civil engineer. No, no, no. That's I just know like anything we do we should be not saying because it's already really bad we should just keep it bad, but like improving.

Talk about improv. No, I agree. I agree with you, Abby. Um, you can control the storm water and the roofs and you can direct them into systems um rather than allow them to flow over sidewalks that need to be treated with salt and dirt, right? Uh, so it it could be a a safety issue that with the application of a couple roof drains and leaders could control it much better.

I mean, some of that in an urban environment like this, you know, it would do like a tree well or a rain garden. It would do certain things. Some of it may depend on where underground utilities are. Yeah, we don't have enough of that information yet, but I wanted to just ask the question. Sure. And we'll look into that. Especially in the planter box area and then the the forward driveway. We'll look to try and maximize time for some improvement. Yeah,

that's good. Good point. the space under the last conx box. Um, is that intended to be like a parking space? Is that all over the this little inset here? So, the the box ends here. So, that would just be okay. site plan that would just be what's currently I think typically some of them may be parked right there.

So that that could but there is the and we'll have to show better. There's the the entrance door into the entry vestibule. But this would be another area where we could increase the green space probably by doing something next to the entry door. Okay. It's been a long time since I looked at required minimum dimensions. Hotel rooms 73 7 feet 3 in qualifies as a minimum dimension for a hotel room. I don't have that information, but we can I can look at that and make sure we have the codes neither for

Yeah, that's typically not a question we would ask for out of periods or ask. Yeah, that was one of the ones that I had. That was one of the ones that I had too for this. Sure. For like sprinklers or what what's we when we reached out to all the departments, we didn't hear back from the office. So, one thing I was going to do was reach out to them and see if they had any specific comments about this. I would imagine there has to be something in the zoning code for how much how many rules there are about residences that there must be rules similar for hotels, right? There there is. So the New York State Building Code governs that.

Sure. Well, I guess I'm I'm saying in addition to the New York State Building Code that the city in their own zoning code may have their own restrictions that they enforce in addition to what the state has. The way that the city building code works is the city code adopts the state code. Okay. In its entirety, right? But then you can also add on the cities and and towns can also add on their own requirements from that. This this city has um traditionally not adopted detailed plan that exceeded the state code. Okay. Um, green.

I'm curious about the exit distance, but for accessible, I'm curious about egress, too, for this. Most hotels you go into have to have two routes of egress. So, I'm wondering if because it's under four unit because if I'm thinking multif family buildings, you if you only have like certain number of units, you don't have to have too many, right? different than hotel maybe. Yeah. Is this something that you guys have looked into yet? Any egress requirements from code? Yeah. So, our office will be doing the full building plans for building permit. Okay. You know, so we've started that next meeting. I could probably have a better summary on some of that building code. Yeah.

Analysis. Okay. And is the mechanical system completely separate from the existing building? Kind of how this is a separate structure. Yeah. I mean, just in terms of like hot water heating and HVAC, that type of Yeah. So, it'll stand alone. And it looks like it stands alone entirely, right? There's no there's no cutins to the existing building. It's going to be on the same lot, but for all intents and purposes, it's its own standalone building. That is the

Okay. So, the the mechanical room down in the accessible will service all the vents. Correct. Yes. So I assume I mean that'll be part of the building code review is like separation of uses and that's not wall. Yeah. Walls. Okay. I know it's kind of beyond the scope of this. I just things I'm thinking city code cannot build on corner. Interesting. So what's that? So that's to to keep the sight line section. Yeah. That's a 30 foot dimension.

30 30 30. You can't exceed 30 in. Any any plans for any like shade trees or larger? Well, probably if we're looking into some stormware improvements we made. Nothing could go in that sight triangle, but there is the green space between the neighbor and property and the potentially house of the landscape. And what what kind of signage is is there any kind of other signage? I don't know. We stop being commented in the staff we have. Do you agree with the owners?

Now is that something signage gets reviewed by the planning board that building asking us or the last guy who was here? I think it's I think it's both, right? I think it's building department, but I think it's also this board. Yeah, it is correct. stuff.

Um, just a point of clarification. Thanks for walking me through all these questions. I always appreciate it. Um, you got the three containers on here. It looks like you got maybe an overhang in the back. We don't have a elevation for that. So is that that's the existing first building kind of looking at the back end right there right? Okay. Um maybe come up here then. So this this is the this existing building that I'm seeing here. This is the exit for that. Yeah. So there's that door in the middle. Okay. Got it. So there's not going to be any existing another any additional build out into the parking lot from there.

Correct. We're We're not going to go any further than this. The access door for the first floor will be right right about there. Okay. And then so you're basically just taking that parking spot out. You're taking those trees out and then you're building on top of that existing building, but you're not going any further back. Correct. Okay. See a little better now. Thanks. Does the new zoning ordinance have um a design component to it?

I have no idea. I've seen very little this new code yet um with 800 other things going on in the role. Okay. Yeah. So recommendations will design and review be part of our perview or I believe so. My understanding is that it's all recommendations and setting of standard and recommendations. Yeah, there are guidelines kind of outlining preferred okay preferred elements or massing or whatnot depending on the district or the

Okay, good. Have you guys reviewed any of that? Any of the existing stuff that the city has put out in terms of what their new updated zoning code could mean? So, our boss is on the panel. Yeah. Right. I have not seen myself but the thought process is I guess and you you he'll be able to tell you better than I would but if it's is this building going to be grandfathered into essentially the existing zoning code then or is it going to be if this project takes place through that transition what's that because they have submitted an application under current zoning law they will follow current

that's what I figured but I wanted to check substantial. Yeah, there there's there's more than just that at play that that just like a black and white. So there's things like um there could be a time lapse if they wait a certain amount of time. Sure. Yeah. So there there are things that can affect that. Okay. What is the thought on the materiality right now? Just what's represented in the rendering? Yeah. So it's like a stuckco or is this finish? So that's what then is that siding on the infill at the end on the Yeah, there's some sort of decorative feature there. I'll have to get clarification.

And then is this the actual uh conics? Yeah, I think the intent is to show the expose it. Yeah. To kind Yeah. So I'm I'm curious about just generally, you know, coming to the building code and energy code and like it looks like there's an infill wall for insulation on the inside, right? So it'll all be furred out and framed and explained in that way. And then this is the exterior steel shown. Then this is covered up. A lot of a lot of a lot of details to figure out. It's like simple in one way but not that simple in another way to think about it. Yeah.

Okay. So in terms of the sketch plan review, I think you know the site the staff comments summarize just a lot of the key key elements of what will be needed for site plan review. Was there anything else that we've identified that there's a lot of clarifying questions so far? No clarifying questions. I know. Yeah. So, Andrew, from the city's perspective then in terms of having a hotel use there in that case. There's nothing no issues that the zoning board didn't think about or that the city is thinking about for that use type in that location. No concerns with that from a code perspective. Correct. The code Got it. You code reviewed it before it was sent to us. Okay. All right.

Okay. Um, so I think I the only comment I have in addition to staff comments um for this sketch plan review would be to um in the context of storm water runoff and proximity to the river evaluate options that might be able to be incorporated. Okay. that could improve the impious conditions that are already existing. There's an opportunity during this renovation or you know construction. Do you have anything?

Um just to answer uh Tom's question, the current zoning ordinance in the central business district, hotels and motel are approved use. Okay. But this would be the Am I wrong? This would be the first hotel in the downtown central business district.

No, that we know of. Uh well, we used to have the union the Well, I know. I'm saying current. No. Yeah, current ones. Yes. Okay. Thanks. kind of curious about these rooms house sounding words but metal boxes rating in those walls right

yeah I mean everything inside the boxes is going to be conventional construction and insulation and everything it's really just the outer and started a structure. Another curiosity thing. Sounds like a next meeting. I'm just going to send our architects here. Well, it's because there's not much on the site plan yet. So, that gets more interesting all the building plans. But yeah, when we have a detailed site plan, you know,

we'll have more to talk about, I guess. Okay. Do we do we um accept this? Do we do the seeker? It looks like there's one motion here. So, I just want to clarify. Do we go through the seeker classification right now? Yes. Okay. I think the staff gave their recommendation as a public hearing. Did this one have a public? No. No public hearing would be during this time.

No. So what what is this identified as? Let's see. Type two. Type two. When do we re go through that questionnaire when it's type one or unlisted?

Okay. So the type just wasn't unlisted. Remember it had didn't have the classification that yeah type two. Okay. That blurb I've pointed out on your screen. Is that what you're talking about? Yeah. That was under type two because of the the type that it's a Oh, okay. Yep. you know, additional on a building that already exists. Yeah. Okay. You're saying it's type two? Yeah. Or is type two the same as unlisted? Because I'm just for the record, it says unlisted on the on the Yeah, this is supposed to be It's supposed to be unlisted. Actually, I was looking at it before came down here.

Okay. Do is it does anybody have the questionnaire that we could pull up? Is that beneficial? Just if we're proving that I want to set these guys back, we have to correct this. I was just looking for the staff that all the way. Yeah. You want to review? You want us to review this?

Well, I just want to make sure that it's it's got it as unlisted and there was a conversation about that. So, I just want to make sure that that's so right before we approve it. Right. If if you if you guys are all confident in it, then I'm good with it and we'll we'll do it. It should say it should say type two. I don't understand. Okay. So, as long as that's corrected, then yeah, then let's hold on. Okay. Sorry for the confusion. No, that's okay. I just don't want to set these guys back. Are you back? Double check.

I didn't see that. I just looked at the section and when I referred I referred back to look at the uh 617.5 that was a typo on my Yeah, all good. Okay. So, can I get a I get a motion? Uh yeah, sure. So, I think you can sit out by the way. Sorry. Yeah. Thank you. Is there anything else you want? Thank you. Yeah. Thanks. All right. So, I'll make a motion to approve uh the seeker uh for application 25-08 for the sketch plan review listed as a type two action.

Um I think we're also in that motion we're accepting the application as complete and providing sketch review approval as well. Thank you. Appreciate that. Uh so we are marking that application as complete and approving sketch plan review as well. Is the storm water as a condition um or is that just a recommendation? Just a recommendation. It's not a condition. And then are you approving staff comments? I guess is the would be the other addition. I'll start from the beginning. How's that sound? Okay, good.

All right. I'll make a motion to accept uh planning board application 25-08 sketch plan review uh to mark the application as complete uh pending that all staff comments are met. Uh we will also approve the seeker as a type two not an unlisted action and we are providing sketch review approval. I think that's all three. Yeah, perfect. Okay, good. Would you like to second concussion? I will gladly second. Lawrence Full. Okay. Roll. Rick Perry. Yes. Abby Muser. Yes. Tom Costro. Yes.

Thank you very much. Yep. Thank you guys. Have a good night.

All right. Um I'm going to hand it back over. I don't know if we want to look at agenda item number two at this time. That's up to you guys from a timing perspective or if that sets a precedent that you're not comfortable with. Doesn't matter to me. Um applicant I'm assuming is still not here I assume. No. So then yeah that's that's consider if you do this now then you're going to set in. Yeah. So, um, that's entirely up to you guys, but precedences, based on reading the materials, it doesn't appear that they're looking to start construction this fall. That was going to be my comment as well. I don't I don't see a reason to set a precedent for something that's not going to need the rush.

So, yeah. So, I guess you guys So, then we're going to motion to table. Yeah, it would be motion to table uh Thank you. 25-07. Historic site review. Historic site review. Perfect. I follow that second. Second by Abby. Yes. Okay. Roll call. Rick Perry. Yes. Abby Muser. Yes. Tom Cosper. Yes. And thank you for that careful reading. I think I missed out on the first go around that they were.

We have any new business? business. How do we uh We got the advertisement out for new alternates. Just a point of order here. We're going to do a motion to adjourn now. Okay. I don't I'm not sure if you guys were doing that in the past and make sure we we were there any new business. Any other new business? Okay. Discuss. I'll make a motion to adjourn the meeting. Second. All in favor? I there