City Commission - Regular Meeting

Heat. Heat. Heat. Hey. Hey. Hey. Down down down down down down.

I call this February 10th, 2026 commission meeting to order. Will you join me in the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all.

We have Major Brenda Pitman from Salvation Army come forward and offer us a prayer. Let's pray. Lord, we thank you for these your servants, our mayor and city staff, and the service that they have chosen to take up on behalf of our community. Give them wisdom to govern with discerning hearts, allowing them to distinguish between right and wrong, and to make decisions that bring peace, justice, and prosperity to our city. We pray this in Jesus name. Amen. Amen. Thank you.

Moving on to public input. Does anyone out there want to come and speak in public input? If so, if so, state your name and address. My name is Jimmy Whitney. I'm the CEO of CCAP, Inc. Um, located in Jer, but also here in Pittsburgh in several locations. as we are here this evening to clarify the news that was broadcast on regarding CCAP's general public transportation services provided in Crawford County. First thing we would like to do is thank Pittsburgh State University, Crawford County, city of Pittsburgh, Gerard Medical Center, and several various other contributors that have provided funding for this service. Of the funding we receive to operate our transportation services in Crawford County, 70% comes from federal and state sources and the remaining 30% comes from the local match which could be county, city or private contributions. The funding year is based on the state fiscal year which runs from July 1st through June 30th. The local match amount needed for the five routes provided for the Crawford County is $40,000 per route times five routes which equals $200,000. Last year we received $53,558.35. This unfortunately is $146,44165 short of our needed funds. As I stated in our previous announcements, Crawford County is the largest user of transportation services in all the six counties we serve. in Crawford County during the 2025 2026 program year. And what I'm going to provide you is just simply six months of

data. We provided 5,454 rides of which 3,762 were in Pittsburgh with the three general public transportation routes throughout the county. The packed bus provided 10,39 rides throughout the city of Pittsburgh and the two routes that solely serve Pit State students provided 8,118 rides. The match for the Pit States routes, Safe Ride and Gus Bus are all fully paid for through Pittsburgh State University. Also, we provide rides to the warming stations over the last couple of months, which is outside the typical hours of operation and outside the scope of our of our services. We cannot begin to tell you how much we appreciate the support we receive from all our contributors. Transportation is an invaluable service to those who cannot get to and from needed healthcare, groceries, employment, and access to vital services to live day-to-day. The rides provided not only give an invaluable resource to the writer, it also helps support the commerce in the community it is located in. I just wanted to provide this clarifying statement and I appreciate your time.

Thank you. Thank you.

Can I stand? Yeah.

Okay. I did that last time. Okay. Hi. Uh my name is Jamie Lyn Bloom. I live at 1901 Carney Smith Court in the southwest quadrant of Pittsburgh. Um I currently serve on the neighborhood advisory council as co-chair. Um and I'm here about the Crawford Countyy's public transportation. um issue. Um it's not just a service disruption. It is a loss of access, independence, and stability for many people in our community. As a military spouse who has lived in several parts of the country, I was genuinely surprised when we moved here nearly 3 years ago, and there was no visible signs of public transportation. In most communities, transit is treated as basic infrastructure. Here in Crawford County, median household income is far below the Kansas average and poverty rates are significantly higher, which makes reliable transportation not a luxury but a necessity that we cannot afford to lose. There is no meaningful alternative here. No Uber, no lift, and no reliable taxi service. For older adults, individuals with disabilities, families without dependable vehicles, and people trying to reach healthare, work, groceries, or court. This system is the only way to get where they need to go. We know the need is real. Thousands of rides each year represent medical care received, food on the table, lives kept on track. Losing the service will not just create inconvenience. It will create missed care, lost opportunity and deeper hardship that ultimately costs our community more. Um, I urge you, the commission, to treat this as an essential infrastructure and to continue working towards sustainable funding so that no one in Crawford County is left behind simply because they cannot get a ride. Thank you for your time.

Thanks. Hi guys, uh Isaiah Harris, uh 411 East Adams. Um I also wanted to serve as a voice of voseiferous support for what CCAP does for our community with especially their public transportation. Um and I'm not just going to say that I just want you guys to fund it and please spend more money. Like I know that our budget is tight as a taxpaying member of our town. I I fully recognize that. You know, I get my tax bill, property tax bill in the mail and it stresses us out. I mean, truly, I I get how tight the budget is. Um, and I just I just wanted to say a few things and break this down into the importance of the community that I feel and I know that CCAP's public transportation is. Uh, some of my own personal experience in using it in this town. I was born and raised here. And then a bit of a a bit of a call to action. Um, as uh Jamie alluded to, um, both both Jamie's, right? Um, alluded to this, this service is absolutely critical for our town. Um, and and you don't even have to look at the numbers. Talk to the people in the town and they will tell you that. So, I worked at the Mald Deli for for 10 and a half years and a a bit of a news to break, I guess. I'm I'm no longer working there and and I got hired on at at Dylan's as a customer service rep. Um which mixed feelings about, but I'd love to have a conversation about anyone with it. So anyways, in both of those places, I saw people that relied on that bus. We had uh one of our one of our workers, one of our bus boys at the mall Delhi rode that bus every single time he needed a ride to work. Um has been riding that bus. And then now at Dylan's we have a a bagger there that that rides that bus almost the packed bus almost every

single time she comes to work. And so anecdotally and statistically it is an invaluable resource for our community. Um and then I have ridden that bus so many times growing up. So I was uh raised by just a single mom and I I remember one time our car broke down. Uh god I can't remember what kind of car it was. It was a black sedan if that helps you picture it in your minds. Um it was just a piece of crap honestly. Pardon my French but and so so it broke down and for about two months we we rode that bus almost every single day and my mom getting to work and then a couple times a week going to to Walmart to get groceries. Um, and I don't know what we would have done without it, you know, and and so I would urge everyone in this room, if you haven't had a conversation with someone who rides that bus regularly, please do so. Uh, that goes for for all of uh you uh fellow commissioners, I shouldn't say fellow, all of you commissioners and everyone in this room, like truly speak to the people that use it. It is it is very important. Um and then obviously the question before all of us is is what are we supposed to do about it? You know, it's it's clear that this service is is critical. Um it's also very clear that CCAP has funding issues. Obviously, there are many reasons for that. I'm sure there are a lot of speculations and a lot of hard facts that are pretty hard to get at because it's a pretty complicated operation, right? Um, I want to urge you commissioners to voice your support in transportation and use the the personal leverages and the personal relationships that all of you have to talk to people, to use your your voice as representatives of our community to be supporters of this vocally and and forcefully. And and that's what I was trying to get at at the beginning is

that I know it's pretty easy for just people to come up and yap at you guys about please spend more money on on this thing that I care about. That's not what I'm saying. I I want to see more from our city leadership to to say out make public statements that yeah, I at least like I'm sorry that we're losing this, but the budget's tight. Say something. go out there, talk to people in our community that ride this bus and have those conversations because as myself, as someone who has relied on that in the past, seeing it fail right now is absolutely heartbreaking. And that will have innumerable effects in our community economically when people have to make impossible decisions between buying groceries, which you're talking about our sales tax, or going to work, which you're talking about our labor market, or child care, again, a critical part of our town. all all of those uh pieces of the puzzle are connected with public transportation. Uh that's about all I have to say.

Thank you guys. Thank you. Good evening. Kyle Bover, 514 East Centennial.

Um I've been asked to come speak uh in support of soccer facilities uh in Pittsburgh. Um local Pittsburgh soccer community. um currently and uh for years now um has identified a gap in athletic facilities specifically for soccer uh in our community. Um a little bit uh background of myself u got about 40 years u of soccer background as a player at uh competitive youth league levels through college level play. Um, I'm USS USSF licensed coach and referee. Um, and recently have stepped away from the game of soccer about three years ago. Um, between the years of 2010 and 2022, um, I was the director and head coach of Youth Development Academy, Southeast Kansas Soccer Academy. uh we we experienced the same types of issues that the current community is facing today. We didn't have fields to play on. Um my my club uh had about eight teams. Our annual reg player registration was aboutund 100 players to 115 players per season. Just to give you a little bit of idea about youth soccer, there's basically two outdoor seasons. There's a spring season and a fall season. Uh those seasons typically last about 12 weeks long. So every Saturday for the during those seasons, 100 families from Pittsburgh were driving over to Joplain and just like a conservative snapshot of what this means is when we would go to play, our teams would have a morning game and typically they would have an afternoon game. So, you had a hundred families from

Pittsburgh over there that had this gap of time. Uh, and it's easy to say that most of them are going to spend at least $50 on lunch, retail shopping, fuel to drive back home to Pittsburgh. Uh, so just quick math on, you know, we're talking about uh $5,000 every Saturday during that 24 Saturday period. So every year my one club was contributing $120,000 into the Joplin economy. We did that for 12 years. So you know do the math is, you know, one what one point 1 1.4. The the the thing about it is in that league we played that one Saturday league, there were 10 to 15 other teams that were doing the same thing. So, you span that out over all of those other teams, that's $14 million generated to that city's economic uh impact uh over that 12-ear span. I think that that's a decent investment and a decent return on investment considering the fact that youth sports, you know, you have all the other benefits of youth sports, you, you know, the physical aspects, the community uh involvement aspects. um there is a need for it in this community. It it can be it can be that goal can be reached without taxpayer burden um through you know strategic funding practices. This has been done in many other communities much smaller than Pittsburgh um where they're utilizing star bonds and grants and um you know revenue generated from the facilities to to to to um take care of the maintenance and upkeep of those of those types of complexes. Uh there's at this point I

it's just it baffles me that there's not a soccer complex or soccer dedicated space for our community uh youth to play at. Um thank you for your time and consideration. Thank you.

I am Ralph Mc George. I live 2301 North Ralph Pittsburgh, Kansas. And I just want to kind of reenter what I said the last time I was up here about uh our schools uh K through 12, that is Pittsburgh schools, USD250 and St. Mary's Kogan. And I think I'd call it community pride if we would put uh Pittsburgh Dragon and Kogan Panthers on that Northwater tower. I think it would be great for the community just like it did for the college. And I think there'd be a lot of interest in that and I just like to know if you guys had thought about that in any way, shape or form because I think it's it's it's important and uh you know we the schools have been here a lot longer than the university and K through 12 education is the foundation that all college is built on. Them people got the hard job. They got to bring them kids up from this high on up and they teach them everything they need to know to prepare for the college for better education. Uh my second thing is uh I'd like to see us put the uh print the salary ordinance that we have for all the salary people and all the hourly people and I'd like to see that printed out and mailed out with our uh utility bill with our water bill. That way everybody in Pittsburgh gets one because not everybody takes the morning sun and uh I'd like to see that done. I've asked that before. I don't know if you guys have worked on that or anything. Uh but take it under deep consideration we get that done. I think the people of Pittsburgh would appreciate that. Thank you very much.

Thank you. Hello, my name is Elizabeth Peters. I live in the dorms uh at Pit State. I'm a 30-year Pit State student. So, that's 1807 South Locust Street. I'd also like to echo the sentiment uh asking for the funding of CCAP and the packed bus because I know how important that is. Even as a pit state student who lives on the dorms, I have friends who don't. I have a friend who is legally blind and cannot drive. Their house is on the other side of the city. Without the pack bus, they can't get to class. I have a friend whose mother is also legally blind who can't go to wherever she would need to go throughout the city because without the packed bus because she cannot drive anywhere and it is unsafe to walk that far that long especially in the cold especially like especially when it's cold um and I don't know if you have ever experienced being unable to leave the house for extended periods of time. How isolating that is, how um worrying that is. Like when am I going to be able to go to the store to get food? When am I able to go to the doctor to get the medication I need? I've experienced that as also a disabled person. Luckily, I have a car. I'm only limited by when I feel well. If the packed bus goes away, it doesn't matter how great someone feels. They can't leave their house. They will suffer. I'm

asking the city commission to please be creative. Please work with CCAP to find a way to keep this lifeblood alive. Thank you.

Thank you. John Lair, 1608 North Joplin Street, Pittsburgh. I would just would like to thank this commission for the job they did last month. You know, the city used the deputy to try to look at the budget and the finance department and they couldn't find anything wrong. But you guys straighten got started by straightening it up. I appreciate you guys doing this. Somebody needed to straighten up the mistake and you guys did. I'm going to tell you right now, I'm proud of you. The other thing is I would like to see the commission come up with a deal that the city manager cannot spend over $5,000 without bringing it before the commission. I think it's something that's needed right now. I think it's probably 30,000. Be nice if it was at 5,000. let the commission become more involved in the budget and what's being spent. And uh you know the thing about it is there's two people that brought this to their attention. Christy Bitner and Roger Lamch. And Christy Bitner, as far as I know, has never got an answer yet. She's been here two or three times, told them what's going on. Nothing's ever been done. And I think it's high time to get some answers. I really do. And the other thing is, you know, the city commission, their decisions are dependent on what the voters and the taxpayers tell them to do. The city manager works at the will of the commission. I think it's time that we get more involved in the budget and you guys really do a good job. So, thank you very much.

Thank you, John. Christy Bitner, 1508 Bitner Court. Um, first of all, uh, good evening to the commissioners, city manager, and city staff. I would first like to say I think it was great to see in the agenda tonight the, um, the item concerning the budget calendar for the 2027 budget. I think that's a really good start for this next round of of looking at cost and you know what we're going to spend money on in this next year. But um we're still looking at uh this year's budget and Darren and I after the last meeting we've been emailing back and forth and uh I sent him some questions and so tonight he said we would go through those questions and anything else that comes up let's you know discuss what's going on. So, I think is is this the time we should we should do that at?

Okay. Well, we figured we were going to do it at the end of the agenda, but it seems like we would just there's an agenda item that actually has to do with creating the document. So, we'd rather have the discussion before we get to that item for the commission. So, if now's as good a time as any, I think Missy's got responses to I mean, you gave us Okay. Thankfully, at least three or four pages of questions, so we've kind of just gone through them one at a time. So, if you'll give us a chance to run through that tonight if you're ready and then and go from there. Okay. And thanks for Yeah, I'll stand right here.

Good evening. uh city manager um Darren and Jay and I have went through and um lined out questions, but to start with I want to um kind of give an introduction on budget and some definitions and explanations and then I want to go through the line by line questions that you had. Okay.

Um this is just an explanation of of how I see the definitions of the budget. Um, we've referred to budget book one, budget book two, and budget book three. So, I wanted to define those. Um, budget book one was um was quickly redacted and replaced with the submitted budget book at the July meeting. The need for the revised document was due to the last minute changes in reducing the original sewer increase that they had factored in for 15% changing it to 3%. The consultant worked throughout the day to finish the changes before the meeting. Budget book one should not have been an should not have been an issue as it was never considered before the commission. So um I'm not going to discuss budget book one because it was uh pulled back immediately. Budget book two was called the submitted budget. It was presented at the same time the same July meeting. Um it was the last minute revised book. The book was later reviewed and multiple formula errors were discovered. The Excel spreadsheet was that that we used to develop that budget was designed to autobalance but because of formula errors uh the balancing entries didn't work correctly and that was discovered when going through the book because it was kind of a lastm minute thing that it didn't get that final review and as a result errors were identified in the reserves and some other areas. Budget book number three, the final adopted budget. It was presented at the commission meeting in September and posted to the website I think in October and it is the final adopted 26 budget. Budget book number three, the adopted budget has been entered into encode which is our financial software and that is where it will be used for 26 spending discretion. A standard process was followed. We we always submit a budget book in July, then follow up with an adopted budget

book after the council votes to adopt the budget. State budget forms, I'm going to talk about that just a little bit differently. State budget forms are required forms from the state. It is an Excel spreadsheet, so it's very archaic, too. Um, it has multiple tabs, probably close to 20 or 25 tabs in that worksheet. The multiple tabs are linked throughout the entire document. things important to note on the state budget forms. County information is not integrated. It's not integrated into that budget um worksheet. State forms and our internal adopted budget are not integrated and are not linked into in that any way to that document. The state certificate did not change from the number two and number three adopted budget. They stayed the same. The next thing I'd like to clarify is the columns in the budget. There's three different columns in the budget. Um when you're looking at the actual numbers, um actual 24 is the first column. When the 26 budget process began in May, the 24 financial audit was not complete. Audit entries still needed to be made and to be finalized and to be entered into the system. And when entries were made, numbers changed. So as each time they brought a new uh revision of a budget forward, those numbers could have changed due to audit entries. The estimated 2025 column in 25 when the 26 budget process began, the year continued to operate. Expenses and revenues continued to be posted throughout the year. Thank you. Excuse me.

We're making the person that had a cold for two days read all this. Okay. We try to go through it in detail.

So the estimated column um estimated 25 in 2025 when the 26 budget process began the year continued to operate. Expenses and revenues continue to be posted throughout the year. The 25 audit still has not been completed because 25 just finished. Auditors are scheduled to be on site in March. So audit will be not be finalized and entries will not be posted until later this spring. Last year it was much later. It was like September I think when that finished up. Um financial numbers will continue to change until the audit is final. When you compare the different versions of the budget, the abovementioned financial numbers are just a snapshot in time at that moment. Until audits are finalized, the numbers can and will the numbers can and will change. In an effort, our effort is to provide the best and most up-to-date information to help with decision-making. Throughout the entire process, we are continually receiving feedback from the commissioners and staff about what should be included in the budget. in addition updating the actual and estimated columns. So that is also done. So that's just kind of a uh explanation of the process. So now I want to talk about Christiey's questions. Um she provided an email with questions and then also a last meeting you had the list of comparisons. So I'm just going to go through I think there's about 23 if you combined the two. So, I'm just going to read your question and then I'm going to read uh what how I explained it. Which of the budget books will be used for the fiscal year? The third version labeled adopted budget. This has been available on the web since October and it is also I haven't included on my notes, but it also is what's been loaded into um encode the financial system.

Number two, why have there been so many changes between the second and third books? You can see from the handout I presented on January 27th of the many differences. It was mentioned that the new finance director is working on reviewing the numbers. So, here we are. Here's our uh response. Excuse me, just a minute. These documents were prepared to provide additional information and were based on the formal budget submitted to the county for the state. There were no changes made to the state budget forms. The majority of the changes were due to the formula errors in the spreadsheet used to generate the document. Other changes were due to updating actuals and estimated as time passed. Number three, what exactly will those be? And will there be a presentation made at commissioners at a future meeting? And that's what we're doing now. And Christie, I have copies of this for you so you don't have to try to I'll pass you copies when we're done. Okay. I'll give you mine, but if she can't talk, I'm going to have to start reading.

I'm good. I'm good. But I do have copies for you. So, um, number four. It's been stated that number two budget, the submitted budget document, had been corrected and had accurate numbers when it was presented at the commissioners. Why then was there a need for a third budget book? Was the second budget book wrong? Um, the first bullet point is the third book is the adopted budget book. This is done every year. We correct everything we could find. Number uh second bullet point throughout this time the state budget forms did not change. Third bullet point. The second book is a submitted budget document. We made lastm minute changes to this document. Excuse me. On the afternoon before we were to present it because we reduced the sewer rate. The following week because we made impactful last minute changes. We reviewed the submitted budget document and discovered a problem with formulas that filtered throughout the entire document. This required numerous corrections that had implications on many of the pages. These formula errors presented themselves in in errors in subtotals and totals and carried throughout the document. This is the risk associated with creating a budget book manually. Who and why was it decided that the third budget book should be put on the website? This is a normal process. We always put the final document on our website. Number six, why do the numbers from the county and the city numbers vary? For the assessed valuation, the number on the state form includes the neighborhood revitalization valuation, NRV. The NRV represents an amount on which the city will not receive property tax, so we remove it from our calculations. Number seven, what date was the decision made to decrease the 15% sewer charge to 3%? Our answer. After reviewing the debt service requirement for the state loan, we decided to decrease the sewer rate

the day we presented the submitted budget to the city commission, July 8th, and that was because of the debt service was not going to start for a while. So, why increase the rate um to the public if we don't have to? Number eight, the 5-year financial forecast has numbers and statements not consistent with budget books. An example is the 2024 revenues by source that does not align with the budget books. Another is the 2024 expenditures by category page that is not the same. Some of the assumptions and recommendations changed from May and when the budget book was presented. The first bullet point, the five-year plan is just a forecast based on past history. We put the five-year financial plan together well before we had the information from the county that we used to put together our formal budget. It is intended to serve as a starting point for conversations about next year's budget. The second bullet point, the five-year plan is used to identify trends and to make more realistic revenue and expenditure decision. And that's the end of the questions from your email. Um, the next questions are just comparisons and I think they're just um things that Christy identified that changed. And so um I'm just going to read through those. The first thing that she noted was the mill rate. Um, and that's on book two. It's on page uh 22 and page 120. And book three, it was on page 21 and 117. And then we have the mill rate as 50.854. And there was no change between the two books.

And those are the submitted and submitted and the adopted. Those are the submitted and adopted

and the adopted. So when I refer to two, that's the submitted refer refer to three that is the adopted. Number 10. Total assessed valuation book number two which is on page 120 of the budget book and book number three which is on page 117. The total assessed valuation on both of those were 180,73295. There was no change between the two books. Number 11. The net assessed valuation after exemptions. Book number two was page 102 was stated 180,47294 which is different from book number three page 100 it was 181718 350. Crawford County's assess net assessed valuation was 179 626 310. Okay. The total assessed valuation was shown uh above in the previous question was 18073295. If you deduct the tiff district of 3,28604 the net assessed valuation would have been 180417291 which is what was shown up in book two. um book three that if you for some reason it took the assessed valuation of the one 18073 295 and it only deducted the NRV valuation the neighborhood revitalization so um which was 1,984 945 so the net valuation ended up being 181718 350 so those are the two numbers that were compared one deducted the tiff the other one deducted the NRV so those were the differences there. That was uh Darren, can you help us with that? Those should have both been deducted. Is that the one the one that should have been deducted or no?

Fifth is the one that we brought up at the last meeting with the county or two meetings ago that had the we read it to say that it was in that was to be sub that was it was subtracted already and the instructions meant it should be subtracted. So that's where we left the 3.2 2 million in and that led to basically 75% of the 1.152 mil increase that everybody saw right that we were that we were unexpecting. Miss here Darren can maybe you two explain to the audience and the public what those two mean. We're dancing around those acronyms but not everybody knows what

oh like the tiff and red. So tiff is a tax increment financing and that is an abatement that is given to the home depot when it was built I don't know 20 some years ago. Um the idea was you would have a tax increment financing. The taxes generated from that property would go back to the developer to help pay for them and incentivize them to actually build in Pittsburgh. Um the RID is the same way, but it's basically for housing. So, it's a rural housing or rein, they changed the R, reinvestment housing incentive district, but it's basically the same thing where the commission has the ability to take the property tax off of a a new home that was built in that development and pay back the developer for his cost to get or her cost to get them to build in Pittsburgh. Thank you.

Yep.

Okay. Number 12, the net assessed valuation to support the 26 budget from the revenue narrative. So that's in the book. It's in the revenue narrative. Book number two showed 177 213786 on page 21. And book three showed 181,718 350. In book number two, the revenue here's my our explanation. Book number two, the revenue section of the 26 submitted budget summary on page 21 was not updated. This is where the manual charts, grant, graphs, and narratives do not autopop populate. We have to do those. So in in all those changes once it was changed they didn't get that was a spot they didn't get back to and get changed. Okay. Number 13 submitted 2025 tax levies and budget summary page 21. Book number two showed 9 million 291297 and book three showed 9,342043. This difference was caused by the incorrect assessed valuation which we talked about above in those questions. Number 13, the ad valorum tax levy dollars. Book number two page 102 was 9,174 941 and book three was 9,342043. Same same thing difference caused by the incorrect assessed valuation. Those were just in two different places. I think the same thing. Number 14, the proposed budget to 2026 notice of budget hearing. The state certificate books number two, book number two, page 120 and number three, page 115 or 117. They match for 9,342043. So there was no change between the two books. Number 15, annual resources for 26 page 27 on book two and book three. I don't

have a page number on that one. I think it's on both of them. It's page 27. Book number two, the the uh value was 46,974064. Book three, it was 47,025443. These were caused by formula errors and the manual step of updating the narrative. So the two in combination is the formula in the actual document and updating manually in the narrative. Number 16, annual expenditures for 2026, page 33. Book two was 48,47745. Book three was 49,129848. This was caused by formula errors and the manual step of updating the narrative. Book number three balances if you compute total expenditures of 72635503 less the reserves of 19833496 and less transfers out of 3,672159 that equals 49129848. Number 17, expenditures over resources 2026 books book number two was 1,433689. Book number three was 2,104405. Okay, here's our explanation. Book two, the total revenue on page 27 of 46,974064 less total expenses page 33 of 4847745 would equal 1,433681. and book three is total revenue. These numbers the total revenues changed throughout the document. So when that changes everything else changes. All these computations rely on each other. So in book number three the total revenue on page 27 was 47 million25433

less your total expenses on page 33 of 49,129848 for 2,1045. These changes are due to the overall expenses and revenues changing throughout the entire budget. Actual resources for 24 number 18. Changes in the 2024 actuals are due to the year not being closed and the audit not being final until fall. Formulas also in air in errors in the worksheet. And as I spoke in my first my definitions and explanations, 24 would continue to change to audit entries were made. Number 19 is kind of the same explanation. Estimated resources for 25. The 26 budget was being developed early in 25 while 25 was still in process. 25 estimate column continued to change as journal entries, invoices, collections, normal business entries occurred. Number 20, adopted resources for 26, book number two, page 27, 74,726135 and book number three, page 27 was 72,635503. These revisions were due to formula errors. 21 actual allocation by fund in 24 changes in the 24 actuals due the year not being closed and the audit not being final until fall of 25 and there were also formula errors in worksheets. 22 estimated allocations for fund 25. This is the same thing we've discussed before. The 26 budget was being developed early in 25 while 25 was still in process. 25 estimate column continue to change as journal entries, invoices, collections, and normal business entries occurred. Last question. The adopted allocation by fund to 26 revisions due to formula errors.

I've got I have some covers both of those. Okay, thank you.

So, basically, real quick, Missy obviously got here after all this happened and was uh nice enough to kind of go through it and put it back together. So Jamie Clarkson um did our budget for a long time and Jamie was a stickler and he used Excel because we obviously I mean when I first got here our assess valuation was still going down. So a lot of cities and and andy's going to get into this. A lot of cities have a a financial management system and they have a piece of software that just pulls and puts a book together for you. We have never done that because we're just trying to keep cost down and uh but when Jamie leaves and you have turnover um eventually it caught up to us this year and the consultant I I know you know I' I'd love to blame Jay but Jay's role in the finance department was getting us a clean audit and paying the bills. He he didn't put the budget together. We did contract that out. Um but Missy and I actually was the one that went back the next week and said none of these numbers are making sense. Um but for whatever reason using Excel spreadsheets that are at the mercy of um that kind of turnover is going to be a problem going forward. Um we still need to not do it but this year it caught up with us and and we obviously had the huge hiccup between the submitted budget and the adopted budget. And yeah Christie was extremely patient because I think of at least four meetings where you were here saying

at least yes.

Yeah. You know what is this? What is this? What is this number? So I want to give hats off to Missy. Um, I don't I don't think next year's budget will have any of these issues because we've uncovered all the formula errors. The formula errors sound like a an excuse, but if you plug a number instead of having it, there's certain cells that have like 27 numbers in them. If you plug that number, when you change the the revenue at the total, it doesn't go through. And our consultant, I wish they would have caught it. They never would have caught that. We made the changes at the end. um we would fix it next year, but I do think I mean we have a $72 million budget and I know um we all want to cut costs, but at some point um I think it'd be nice if we considered automating our budget book. Um the one thing we've stood fast on and I think I'm I'm proud of this and um Jay should get credit for this. The state budget form, there's two things that we can get in trouble with the state and the government if we're wrong. One of them is if we submit that submitted budget form, it's their workbook. And when Missy says that all these things aren't um would you say buried in there or

aren't linked, they're not linked. That's just a completely separate document. That document has been right through the submitted and the budget process. It didn't change. The bill rate was the same. Um the problem is the book. The book is always going to be a challenge because it's a program budget. All of our accounting is done by fund. Um, and so if I'm looking at the book, BA, basically I'm the one that came here and said, "We need a program budget book." Because if I look at public works, it has five funds in it. I don't want to go to the accounting system and start running reports from five different funds. I just want a book that tells us, look, we budgeted $9.6 million in public works. So, that was the intent of the program budget. And the other thing that we need to keep in mind,

um, the other thing the state judges us for is an audit. An audit is how we pay our bills. An audit is how we take money in and it's how we treat that money and where we keep it and what we do with it. And we always have a clean audit and that's the that's the most important thing for a guy that was in Jay's position or missy next year. I mean we're already working on next year's audit. But um thanks to you for going through it Christie. Obviously I don't know I I wish I could give you your time back for going through and and identifying everything that was wrong in the budget. But yeah, the program budget book had two major errors. One due to property valuation. Um, the second one was due to the rate change and those are two major revenues that once you change them, they kicked through the whole budget. But the third one was that somebody at some point had changed the formulas and it just didn't carry through and that's why there was so many mistakes on so many pages. So, um, hats off to you for going through it and and if you want to look at ours next year before we submit it, I definitely would sign you up. But we we I also think at some point we need to consider automating this and and and just removing this kind of error from it because that's what Missy's yelling at me at every week. She's like, I'm still going over this stuff. why don't we just get the software? And I'm like, well, we have a new commission. We'll talk to you about it. But thank you. Thank you. And obviously, we'll stand for any questions and take a copy of that. And if you have more questions, I know you will.

Well, I I would like to say a few things from what I heard. Absolutely. Um,

you know, and thank you for going through all that and and I appreciate the time it took to do that. It's But there there are several things here. Um, first of all, there's never been three budget books. There's never been two budget books. We've had a budget book presented and that's the one, sorry, that is the one the commissioners look at and in August, you know, it's supposed to take place a discussion and then in September that budget book is the one that's approved. That is not what happened. And I have to disagree that number three budget book is not the same as number two. And number two is the one that was adopted. And there's many different things between those two books. There is, if you look at page 53, the revenues, there's $1.8 million difference between the revenues from the second book and the third book. There's $2 million in difference in expenditures between those two books. And that happened after the commission approved the budget. I think that kind of goes, hm, how did that happen? And because also in the second book, it's funny how the state certificate is the same as the number three, but how come it didn't have all through budget book two, there was 74 million listed and everything? And even on page 53 and a lot of a lot of the funds were all here is what it did. It totaled $74 million. But then the state budget book was 72 million and it had the higher uh tax levy number in it which that's not what it said in the front part of the book and number two it was that 9 million1 whatever that is

and that's what she explained to me. Yeah. But well, but once again, May you had the um you had the meeting with the commissioners and you talked a little bit about your budget, but that wasn't done yet. In June, I know you started working on the budget and then in mid June, you got numbers from the city clerk, the county clerk about here's what it should be and why you didn't use the 51.006 006 because that's what she said it was going to be. 52 H 52.2

oh 52 Okay, excuse me. Yes, it's the higher number and then it was a lower valuation. It was 179,000 is what it should have been because they didn't take out the RHID, right? you didn't subtract that from that 183 and whatever the other thing and that should have gotten you that that county both the county clerk and the county appraiser had that same number and so then

no they put that number in well after we submitted our budget we submitted our budget with the exact same mill rate in September we didn't see a f we didn't get that final certificate that you're talking about until Jay asked the county to Could you Please replicate this form that we used and it came back to 52.006 after we saw the tax bills. That's the first time I saw it.

Hang on. I I got something from Lisa Lusker over at the county and um there's a document um where is I got so many pages here. Uh that shows that it was June 13th when she sent that. But then you sent in September 24th. That's what you sent to her. Well, and so let's move on to July. July 8th is not when the budget was. It was July 22nd. That's when you presented the budget. Nobody knew about the budget till July 22nd. Okay.

Okay. And so then in August, there was supposed to be a meeting, an agenda item for these commissioners to talk about the budget book. It didn't happen. They had no idea. Everybody on this commission knew for the last 14 years. We submit a budget and we are going to have maybe a revenue neutral rate hearing that we were required to have the last few years. But any time for that three months, we can talk about that budget at any time.

We have never I have never been approached by anybody during that three months to say, "Hey, I have a question. Can I bring it up at the meeting? Can I come meet?" No, it's it's supposed to be you you it says in the budget book August is supposed to be the discussion with the commissioners. It didn't happen because all five of those commissioners should talk together instead of one at a time. I agree with the city manager. It should be among them to ask the questions and they didn't get that done. It didn't happen till September in the public hearing. If they don't have questions on the budget, Christie, that's up to them. But we don't huh that's the process for the last 15 years. No, you've always had a budget. We submit a budget and we have the hearing on the schedule and we had a hearing.

There's a six week period between July and September the public hearing because September is when the adopted budget. Yeah. Well, and so that number two budget book that is the one because in July you took the number one away. You brought the number two back. The submitted and you well submitted. Yes, you submitted it, but it was also said multiple times during that evening. It had all Margie came down and it had all been corrected. I We know that. That's what we just spent 30 minutes explaining. It was all corrected. So, the numbers were supposed to be right.

Margie's corrections didn't take into account that all of the links that created that book had were were no longer no longer existed. Well, that's not the way it was presented. didn't know it at the time. That's why the next week I spent 3 days going forward and as soon as Missy got her I said you need to go through this budget and you need to make sure you and your staff corrected. And that's what she presented today. Well, I think I think it's in some ways it can't be done but it can't have both ways. You can't say that was a submitted budget when it wasn't because the number three was not ever voted on by these guys. That total budget because the total budget book the budget book doesn't get voted on. This is where you're going. But it's a synopsis of what your state certificate is.

Listen to this. The state has requirements on how to get I understand that. Okay. Yes. But how do we get there? The workbook. Do you know the difference between the workbook and the the program budget? Yes. Do you know I know these books right here. Those books do not get adopted by this commission. Well, they're sure looked at because they prove they prove the last page. I'm sorry. They prove the last page. the state and the last page is corrected. Ma'am, but not not how do you get there? How do you how do these people know what funds are being spent? How the different you just said earlier, the state workbook has every fund in it, but it's not the same. It's, you know, and

it's the one that's correct. And like I said, it doesn't You're right. A lot of it doesn't exist. Hold on. Hold on. Can I interject for a second, please? Let's everybody calm down and let's not have any more condescending tones come out. what's being argued right now and and what's being said is the discrepancies, the difference in them changed and what was submitted to the state. What I'm hearing from what she's saying is that the numbers that build those state documents changed. Yes. And so that's that's what's being said and that's wrong. Okay. But that's what was just explained across the board just now. The book is wrong. Right. So the book is not an official document. Correct.

But what we're what we're saying now is the end result of what's in that book created numbers and that's what was submitted to the state. And that's the point she's trying to make. That's not correct. It doesn't link. You're getting it backwards. No, I'm not. The state workbook. Yes, you are. I'm sorry, Commissioner. The state workbook is what we submit to the state. That book is something we make on our own as a program budget. It does not for us. It does not go to the state. It does not show everybody what's going on and have the actuals. So, if the actuals are wrong in there or they're different and get adjusted, does that not make sense that the numbers would change?

No. The big part of this that you need to hear is the actuals are going to change every day until the year is closed. We do an audit and until that year is closed. That's why the difference between part of her discussion was actuals and estimated from May or July or whenever to September, they changed. Of course, they changed. The year wasn't closed. We continue to pay bills, those numbers are always going to change. But when we submit it to the state, whatever they are on that day, that's what goes to the state and that's the official budget. Okay. May I say something?

Understand that. What I'm saying is she's trying to explain and and is getting cut off that when the numbers change that build that then there the explanation needs to be there. Then that's what she's trying to present and then get danced around. So just I don't think I'm dancing around anything. And I'm trying to explain how the budget is put together. But in 2024, when you say actuals, then that should be you had a you've had a clean audit on 2024, and those numbers should not change. Those should be the right numbers. The audit wasn't finished for 24 until September. Remember, we did the audit September like four months ago. Okay. We just finished it. That's the point I'm trying to make is

those should have been done long before then for them to do the audit. That's the whole point of the audit is we are going to continue to change the numbers until the audit is done. It didn't happen. I mean I I know you may not understand it but that's just the way the audit works. Usually we're working on the audit for 25 right now. Yes. Oh, I understand that one. Last year I think when they presented the audit they came in and said it's very late.

Yes. But 2026 is what you're at. You're you're assuming this is what we're going to spend. And I think there should be definite numbers. Here is what we're going to spend. Here's the total. And that should match the state certificate. That's that's what I'm trying to say. Those numbers should provide the it's the documentation to prove what those numbers are because then how do you how can you trust the numbers? They could be anything. They could keep changing. Why would they keep changing? This is what you say you're going to spend. That should be what you spend, right? Or not. Or I mean all, you know, how do you figure How, Christie? How do you figure fuel?

Let's say you budget Let's say you budget $500,000 for fuel, but for some reason fuel unexpectedly goes up or down and you spend more or less than that. That is the difference. I think Kevin, we have a reserve. So, no, but that's that's the adjustment they're talking about in the actuals versus the the budget, the crystal ball that that you know is not always right. You can't spend over what you said you're going to spend. That's the thing. Well, here's what we do for that. We appropriate the entire budget every year. Mhm. That's why we're not where the county is. All of our reserves, everything gets appropriated. So every

that's part of that entry that's part of those linked entries that were missing was what it should do when you put in your revenue and your expenses and everything then you it autoc calculates for the reserve. So when those formulas were messed up it didn't autoc calculate those. That's why the book is wrong. Yeah. That's why I maybe I haven't heard this and it's before my time again so I'm still learning here but what was the reasoning for the audit being so late? I haven't heard that yet. What was the reasoning for it? It's She stated that it was normally done in March, but this one was done. No, they're normally working on it in March. I don't know. It just What was the issue? I mean, you were short staffed. You didn't have a finance director. And I don't think it was all us either. I think it was just

Yeah, there there were several reasons for that. Partly it was because we were short staffed. We had we were down to staff positions in finance and also the auditors themselves were also having some staffing issues as well. It was it normally we finish up the audit in May June time frame and this time it was in the September time frame. So, it was mostly due to being able to feed the information to the auditor from the right and the auditor having time to analyze it. Well, they have they have other clients. I mean, they're doing I just had I mean, if they came in and said, "Look, it has to be done by June 1st." And but, you know, as long as the auditor is working with us, we'll close the book. We'll close it when we get a close. So, what's what what's left? What didn't we answer?

I will continue to look at this and if I have anything else, I will Oh, yeah. I'll let you know and I appreciate you know and it is yes it's quite a document and it's very cumbersome to make that document. Yes, but it's good to have it and I I think it's good for the citizens to see how we're spending and how much we're spending on on everything and that's why that's why you need a document. Well, the other the other purpose of it is like I said it's not an accounting document. It's a it's a it has words in it. It talks about positions and obviously the position I mean it's meant so a lay person can open it up and say like I said hey police

you don't have to know if it's public safety sales tax the general fund you just say hey police has 76 positions and basically they have a patrol division and blah blah blah. So that is the intent of it. Um obviously this year it's it's a head scratcher but um I think that

she's not very happy with it. Well, I think too that we need to keep in mind that the budget is a guide and the state budget is what we're legally held to and we have to stay within the confines of what the what our legal authority is to spend based on the state budget. The program budget is a guide for us to try to uh make sure we stay within those confines so we can monitor because you can't monitor overall. You need you need some line items to monitor. We also have to remember that the budget is not the actuals. So when you're talking about spending, yeah, that gives us a guide for spending, but our actuals is what we spent.

Okay? So we have to stay underneath of the budget. So I would say that the state budget certificate normally would probably balance to that adopted budget, but it doesn't have to if we're under it. If we're under it and we're we're fine. If we're our spending is under the state budget, that's what we have to be. The audit doesn't audit our budget. It audits our expenses. That's you can't say it any clearer than that. Right.

The budget is is an attempt to get and obviously we had two big errors in the budget for the eenth time. We had the tiff and the rid that didn't get calculated. Um and then then we changed the revenue rate. We thought, you know, we literally came in that day and said it was 15%. We did the debt service. It looked like we didn't have a payment for two years and we're like, why don't we take it to 3%. And you know, changing one number, you would have thought everything got picked up, but it didn't. But I think Missy's all over it. Um, she's got one more interview, I think, and then they're going to hopefully fill their last vacant position. But she has been a godsend and she has put a ton of work into something that she didn't create. So, I do want to make sure that her and Christy get enough praise because it's been, you know, it's it's a it's a it's a confusing document the way it was it came out.

I just like to say as I talked to you, Darren, about the form that we had to fill out and send back to the county and Oh, yeah. It it was it a different form than we've done in the past?

Um, it changes every year a little bit. I don't think it's changed in the last two or three, but the RID um the TIFF and the RID are new incentives for us, so they grow every year, so some years they're pretty small. Um I've never spent as much time trying to figure out that form because we always had a finance director. I think Jamie was here forever and just knew it. And um Lissa actually came from the county, so she knew it. Um, but between Lissa and Missy is where we somehow lost our way in the spreadsheets. But the form, um, we've already talked to the county clerk and said, "Look, this is where we got confused. We did catch the big hospital piece, um, which was which would have been really catastrophic if we'd have kept all that money in there.

We took out 15 million, but we left in three." I know we can't go back and change what happened, but it sounds like you were confused what needed to be put on that form and sent to the county. No, I think it was um I didn't I I didn't do the form. The person that read the form read it that this money was supposed to be included. And who was that? Um the the contractor we had, Margie Herstein. So, are the numbers on the state certificate correct? Yeah. Well, how do you define correct when it's a budget? I mean, a budget with all this discussion that we've had about leaving things off, putting things on and everything, you're talking about the assessed value, not necessarily

the state certificate, what we put on the numbers there because the way it looks it I mean I feel like that we're off on it, but that's my opinion. But I just part of it I just don't understand how we came to this point where if there's so much confusion in the numbers is the state certificate correct? That's my personal question opinion. I want to know whether the numbers that we submitted to the state are they correct or are they 2 million off? By definition the state certificate is correct. It's what we adopted. It's what we're living by right now. I know it's what we adopted, but are they correct? There's two numbers on the state form that never changed.

Okay. The assessed valuation and the mill rate. Every year we submit that. That's what we submitted this year. And every year at the end, the county gets to go in and change based on, and Lisa said it, she said there's $800,000 of assessed valuation that came off. And we said, where did it go? And she goes, I couldn't begin to tell you. It's people contesting their taxes and things changing hospital getting on. That's why we were so proud to catch on the hospital because it would have been 15 million on top of the three. But the numbers that were submitted to the state in the state form were correct.

Okay. So I want to bring this to your attention. The page 117 is on the on the this is on the adopted budget. So this would have been the most that would have been number three the adopted budget. The total on the state certificate says our total budget authority for expenditures that's what we're looking at what we can spend is 72 million635503. Okay. If you look at all department budget on page 51 our total resources and our total expenditures is 72 million635503. If you look on page 27 for resources, our total resources are 72,635503. If you look at expenditures, our total expenditures for 26 is 72,635503. All of those numbers are the same for expenditures,

but that's budget three. Three. In budget, in budget book two, you have 74 million on page 27. You have it on 53 and then in several other places, but then on the state certificate, it's 72 million. Okay? So, when you're approving the budget, you're approving the state certificate budget, right? So when you approve the state certificate budget, if you approve the state certificate budget using the submitted budget,

okay, so here's what I want I want you to think about now. I got book number two here. This is the one we approved book number three here. Number three. Okay. Make sure I got that right. That's how it's adopted up. Number three is here. So number two, what page? State certificate 120. Mhm. Okay. Total budget authority for expenditures 72,635503. Okay. That's the state certificate for amount of tax of 9,34243. It didn't change.

It didn't change. It matches page page 27 in book three. 72,635503. Okay. Signatures. May I say something on page? Are 72,635503 which matches the certificate you approved when you approved the budget. Even though it was in budget two, the program budget was a little bit different. Huh?

It didn't match here, but it matched here. So, we made this balance this because in page 53 of budget 2 that says 74 million resources, the public utility, the storm water, and section 8 housing are the only ones that match the that's the that's the the errors that he found. This book had errors in it. And there's nothing these, you know, um there's a few in the resources, but once again, so if anything, if anything, if we left this alone, it would not balance because it didn't it didn't balance to the state certificate. All those tabs,

these tabs are all different. Where did they come from? Do what? Where did all those little colored errors come? Those are the ones that you know, you identified. Those are all the errors with the linking and the formula that we've been talking about for 15 minutes. And I must have to say Darren, even in your letter to the commissioners, you had 74 million. That was going to be our budget for this year. I was under the impression until we found all the errors that was it. We can keep saying it. It doesn't make it less right. It's It doesn't make it more wrong. It's just there was a ton of problems in that book. But the state certificate from the book that she just read is the same one in the that was adopted and sent to the state. So here's the book is wrong.

Yeah. Here's if we would have stayed with book two and we spent the expenditures we put in this budget in the program budget. If we spent this we would have went over our legal authority. Yeah. The 74. Yeah. If we would have spent 74 million our legal authority was 72. Nissi, can you say with confidence that the adopted budget that's on the website and the one you just read the numbers from is correct and it ties to the state plan? Yeah, it this this ties to the state certificate that was voted on.

So, can I ask when you were going through the second book? Did nobody notice it was 74 million throughout the book and then the state certificate was 72 million? I didn't put the book together at that time like we said. Well, you and Jay were the ones that No, I'm the one that went through and corrected it. This was the one that was last minute that they switched out. What? But that was the one that you gave. That was the one that they talked about in in on September and it was wrong. Well, can we can we better can we possibly put this to bed or the does the Inquisition continue? Excuse me. Can we put this to bed finally?

Yes. I'm I'm I'm going Yes. I I was getting ready to say I hope next year we can be much clearer and precise on on our on our budgets. And

well, I'd like to say that for the last 14 years we have put together um an accurate budget that's never been challenged by the attorney general and we've always had a clean audit. Um, I would hope people would understand that with the kind of turnover we've had. Um, I know we'd like to blame Jay and I for everything and I love taking the bullets for her, but this is a team effort. Um, Missy's a great leader. She's building a good team under her. Um, and I think we should acknowledge that for for over a decade, we've had nobody ever question a book, let alone read it. So, the fact that it got read this year, I'm glad we found out that it was a mistake. I think Missy's already gone through and fixed probably everything that's wrong with it. But

and we would we will be better because of the questions that Christy brought to us. Oh, yeah. I mean, I don't without a doubt.

Well, before we move on, uh John Missy, thank you for going through that. I know that's nerve-wracking and you weren't here when all this happened and I know you were put on the spot for a bunch of this, but I we appreciate it. And and Christie, same thing. Without spending the time on this, then again, it would not have gotten brought to attention and it wouldn't be, you know, dealt with. And I think we're moving forward with the concept of this commission to be more involved in this and we're making strides leaps and bounds uh moving forward to the next budget. I feel confident we're going to have a much better budget and not have a lot of these issues moving forward.

John Lair 168 North Jofflin the commission ought to be very thankful that you have a concerned citizen that puts so much time into this and helps you guys out. I'm I'm really proud of what Christie did and I think she did a fantastic job. We ought to be very proud of the city of Pittsburgh to have her. Absolutely. And Christie, thanks for your patience because I know it has been many meetings.

All right. Is there anyone else that would like to speak in public input? If no, I don't see anyone. We're going to close public input. One more. One more. Okay. One up. I've been here. My name is Larry Williams Jr. I live at 103 West Forest. I've been at this apartment for three years. I've called PD. I've called the animal control. I've called my I talked to my landlord a couple times. This is my first time ever been here. I have a dog behind me that's been howling and crying cuz the landl the owner of the dog is not doing their job. Goes to work and locks the animal up. Doesn't care. And um I'm just tired of it. I woke up at 3:00 in the morning. I don't go to bed until 4:00. And I want to say another thing. There is a taxi here in town. I can give you guys a number. It's helping hands. But I am tired of this dog howling every day till 3:00 in the morning. I barely get any sleep. I've been told from my neighbor next door to me. She's came up here a couple times. This is my first time ever coming here. I'm just done with it. Men America owns my property. I live in apartment E B and the dog behind me is apartment E. I've got on to the app of the city thing and said something. I finally looked at a couple days ago and they're asking what apartment number it is and I reached out and said it's apartment E. Christina Hec is the the person that is renting the place. She works at Casey's next door to Bath and Taylor. I live behind those performance behind Edward Jones. Nothing's been done. The cops go, "Oh, it has to go on for a half an hour. It's a noise complaint. Anything after what, 10:00 is a noise complaint, right?" Nothing's been done. I just want to bring that to attention.

Could you check on this, Darren? And absolutely helping. Thank you, guys. Sorry you had to come out. And if you guys need that number to the taxi, let me know, please. Okay. All right. Is there any other public input at this time? Seeing none, we'll move on to consent agenda. Are there items to be removed from the consent agenda? Is there a motion to approve the consent agenda? So moved. Second. Moved and seconded. Could we have a roll call vote? Brooks? Yes. Height? Yes. Menel? Yes. Perry? Yes. Sigley.

Sigley. Motion passed. Consider the following. Change of zoning Gillinger 24 2724 North Joplin. Consider the recommendation of of the planning commission for board of zoning appeals to grant the request submitted by Ted Gallagher to change the zoning of 2724 North Joplin from CPO plan commercial office to R1C single family residence to allow the construction of a of single family homes.

Good evening mayor and commissioners. I'd like to introduce uh Kyle Michael. Kyle is our chairperson of the planning and zoning commission. We'd be happy to answer any questions you have. So, how many homes are going to be built there if we change the zoning? How many? Two. Two. You see no no other problems, no restrictions, nothing like that. We didn't see any. We uh felt like new homes are going to help the area and there's houses right next to it behind it behind the medical clinic and we didn't see any problems. No opposition from neighbors or

it's kind of an area that's not really being used right now. So once the new homes are put up, it's going to generate more revenue for the city and those things. And are these homes going to be under the chip program? Is that projected or is it It's not projected yet. Move to approve. A second. Been moved and second. All in favor say I. I.

Oppose. Same size. Motion carries. Item B, variance request Christian Construction 1724 Silverback Way consider the recommendation of planning zoning board of planning commission commission boarding board of zoning appeals to grant the request submitted by Christian construction for a setback variance at 1724 Silverback Way to allow the construction of single family home. So, this works out. All the rest of these are similar. As a builder or developer, when you have a corner lot, you have two front edgages with your setbacks. So, a lot of times that needs to be changed to even be able to build on the lot. This one is a little bit different being a corner lot, but it is on a curve, so there's no other houses on that curve of staying lined up. But, the new house, which is very large, protrudes into that. We felt the I can't remember how many feet was it. It's like six feet.

Yeah. Six feet into the setback, but since it's a corner, we usually change one and we try to keep things lined up with the other houses on a curve. It's a little different, but we didn't. None of us saw a problem in it. And there was nobody arguing the fact. Move to approve. Second. Well, I've got a question. I'm sorry. before we move forward. So the and I had to ask this with Dexter to in our meeting uh the other day Darren the setback itself is set for corner lots at 30 by 30 or feet on each side. Front yard setback is 30 foot, right? Yeah. And a corner lot has two front yards. Corner lots has the they're considered front on both sides, right?

So the setback really is designed by the city and then it's adjustable though by request and that's correct. At zoning, you got to have a pretty good reason to change. Definitely on a front on a frontage. We've ran into a couple where they protrude past the other houses. That is something usually we there'd have to be a real good reason. So, it's just by definition though, a setback is the restricted area between the property line itself where the home structure is going to stand to the the the easement or the roadway. That's right. Okay. So, I want to make sure there's a lot of people that didn't understand that. I didn't either. So I just want to make sure some clarity. Thank you. Same motion.

Second. Good. Uh motion and second for approval. All in favor say I. I.

All oppose same sign. Motion carries. Item C variance request Millies 502 East Park. Consider the recommendation of planning commission board of zoning off appeals to grant the request submitted by Dustin Millies for a setback variance at 502 East Park to allow the construction of a new single family home. Same thing here, setback, two setbacks. The setback that they were wanting to do runs in line with the rest of the neighborhood, so nothing will be protruding out in front. We saw again no problems with that. There a motion to approve. So moved. Second. Then moved and seconded. All in favor say I.

I. All oppose. Same sign. Motion carries. Item D, variance request. Milliey's 0000 East 22nd Street. Consider the recommendation of planning commission board of zoning pills to grant a request submitted by Dustin Millies for a variance at 000000 East 22nd Street located in the 400 block of East 22nd to allow front yard parking.

So in the zoning ordinance uh you're not allowed to have front yard parking. So, when we put these new houses in like this, this is going to be duplexes. They're they don't have the room to put any sideyard or rear yard. There's no accessible alley. So, they came, they want to build the duplexes. And obviously, we want more housing. So, they came and asked for a variance to allow front yard parking. Do they have a driveway or a garage? They will have they they're just duplexes. So, they're going to have a parking lot is what they're asking for this front yarding variance. They're they've offered to uh concrete concrete. We kind of asked them to concrete the front. The back is an alley.

Uh the rest of the properties there if they do any parking back there would probably be rock, not concrete. There's no one on either side or Say that again. There's no one there. No neighbors on either side. There's a z duplex on the u east side. A current duplex and it has front yard parking. It does have front yard parking. Yes. Yes. Okay. Is there any utilities that will be underneath the front yard parking concrete? No. Uh with the possibility of a water line. So we're looking at duplexes. How many are project to go in in that space? There'll be three duplexes. Only two are asking for this variance. The third duplex can access from the alley.

So how many parking spaces in total are they asking for other eight? Yeah. Well, four for each one. So, two different lots be 40 on one and 409. Zoning board didn't have any concerns with this or No, as long we we just felt like needed to be concrete since it's coming off the street side and and was the builder okay with that? Yes. Move to approve. Been moved. Is there a second? Been moved and seconded for approval. All in favor say I. I. I. All the same sign. Motion carries. Thanks guys. Thank you.

Item E, flock safety contract consil consider consolidation and renewal. Consider staff request to renew the renew the original contract with Flock Safety for automatic automated license plate recognition technology to consolidate the existing Flock Safety agreement into a single contract with one billing cycle for a new 2-year term at a rate of $15,2712 for the first year after a credit of $88,472.88 88 cents, the rate of $13,500 for the second year. Good evening, mayor and commissioners. Uh in May of last year, I approached the commission requesting uh a second contract for the Pittsburgh Police Department Flock Safety. At that time, we advised that if that was approved, we'd probably reapproach and ask to consolidate at the renewal of the first contract. So, that's what I'm here today for. Um the consolidation contract includes the 14 initial cameras, the 18 additional cameras and software that was approved last May. Um that's we're like I said, we're trying to consolidate into that one contract for the one billing cycle. The flock safety software has been uh very successful within the city of Pittsburgh. It's utilized in locating stolen vehicles associated with missing people. Um, it's been used in homicide investigations, uh, theft cases, recovering stolen vehicles, and many other cases. Since February 2024, the police department's partnership with Flock Safety, like I said, has been very successful. Um, over, excuse me, 32 vehicles have been recovered, stolen vehicles have been recovered, 60 arrests have been made, nine firearms have been recovered, and, uh, just under $600,000 worth of stolen property has been, uh, recovered with this with the assistance of the software.

Last week, uh the software assisted the department in uh locating a shoplifting suspect. Utilizing the software, we were able to locate the suspect and suspect vehicle at another business who was suspected of shoplifting there as well. Uh that suspect because of the short amount of time that we were able to locate that suspect was wearing the same, excuse me, the stolen jeans that was stolen from the first location, the suspect had a warrant out for his arrest and was in possession of a firearm. So, that was a a local recent good win for us. Um, also less than two weeks ago locally a little bit further away in Ozark, Missouri, Flock Safety was used uh in assistance or with the Amber Alert um in Ozark, Missouri, so it's just under 100 miles away. In that case, a four-year-old was safely rescued and a homicide suspect out of Texas was arrested. That case was uh uh solved just within 10 minutes of the Amber Alert being issued. So again, another local success there. Don, can you kind of explain how being a flock client or customer that we have accessed, the police department has access to other cameras across the country, other flock cameras?

Yes. So, um, other other agencies who utilize the flock safety um technology can allow permission for other law enforcement agencies to access their cameras, allow or not allow. Um, a lot of agencies do allow that um, sharing of the network. So, we know a lot of suspects don't just stay and commit crime in one jurisdiction. They go to other jurisdictions and commit crime. Um, not only, you know, where they live or some some suspects travel multiple states and commit a crime sprees along the way, such as like an organized retail crime ring. Um, so the the allowing of utilizing that network with other agencies helps solve cases where suspects leave our jurisdiction and it helps other agencies where uh a suspect vehicle comes into Pittsburgh, other agencies can access that information as well.

And being on a state line and only one county between us and another state, uh, that's always been an issue. Correct. Yes, we traveling not not just across state lines, but our local neighbors to the to the west and north. Definitely the flock cameras have been useful in those situations.

Uh to recap, uh today we're seeking approval to consolidate the to renew the first contract and consolidate with the second contract that was approved last May. uh because of the uh whenever the second contract in May was uh paid, we we paid two years uh the two-year term all at once. So if we renew now and consolidate the contracts, we'd have a credit. So that first year would be just a little over 15,000 and the second year would be the full amount of 103,500. I'd move to approve. Well, oh, sorry. I want people to know where where does this money come from? Uh, I believe the money is funded through the public safety sales

tax which is a great tool. One last thing I wanted to share if you don't mind. Um, just as a reminder, the flock safety software does not record individuals, people. Um, it doesn't track vehicle speed. It doesn't send out citations for traffic violations. Uh, it merely captures an image of the vehicle, the license plate, and the identifiers. The police department has policy that uh is is tracked and uh access is limited to authorized individuals only. Um we do internal audits as well to ensure that we're using the software responsibly um and protecting the privacy of citizens as well. I think you said earlier about a shoplifter that flock caught the camera.

Yes. So how do how did you know that the person shoplift? Did somebody get the tag number and call the police and let you know what was going on? In that particular case, I don't believe that the tag was was located. I think uh the the reporter reporting that theft identified a type of vehicle and we're able to search by type of vehicle. Um and based on the type of vehicle and the location, um then we were able to narrow down that suspect vehicle.

Okay. So, I I I've seen a bunch and I've I've filtered a bunch of concern about the use of the flock system and its accessibility. What is as far as policy for your department? Um, and I got to say I appreciate you putting all the local details in this report as well in this request because it shows our local community how well it's working and it's effective.

Um, I did some research myself the last uh week and it's connected to over 700,000 cases nationally. um and it has helped remove systematic crime in lots of of municipalities and and areas and I think that's what it's doing here essentially. Um but as far as the policy and the procedures, who has access to it, how does it if somebody needs to get into the system and locate a tag and track it? How does that work?

So as far as who has access, it's um sworn personnel or dispatchers as well and our analysts have access. Um they have to have a valid law enforcement reason to be able to access the system. they have to input a case number and an actual reason for the search. Um, and again, like I said, we can audit that. We can go in and see how many times an officer, dispatcher, whoever's make completing a search and ensure that they're they're using it for a valid case and and valid reason.

Some of the concern in the community and and our bordering uh sister city um there was excessive access by individuals and they've been removed from their positions and I know we're going to have some of that kind of thing happen. It's a tool and there are people out there that misuse tools just like tasers and vehicles and everything else. U but I feel confident you guys I don't know that we we it's it's right to say you know we're going to have that happen. That's a isolated incident.

Well, I'm saying nationally, not with us. I thought you meant I don't think there's anything to nationally with the system. You know, we saw issues with the tasers when they first came out. You know, they were being misused and people were being injured, those kind of things. Uh, but again to finish that, Steu, I I feel confident with your department and the officers that are doing this and have access that it's being utilized correctly. I just want to say that part. I appreciate that. We've had success like you've mentioned. Um, I'd say we'd had a high percentage of success with the software and so we want to make sure that we're doing everything that we should be doing and and we're making sure that we're tracking that and to be able to continue to use the software.

Move to approve item to consolidate the the uh rates the fees for flock. My second. It's been moved and seconded. All in favor say I. I. All oppose. Same sign. Motion carry. Thank you.

Resolution number 1299 consider approving of resolution number 12 999 authorizing the city to enter into a lease purchase agreement with Clayton Holdings LLC for the implementation of a replacement data center disaster recovery environment. backup solutions and switching improvements in the amount of 1,139,93655. Thank you. Uh if you remember back in December, I came to you and we had a good discussion about the the project and it was passed. This tonight is literally just the lease agreement that is the funding tool that we're going to do. We went out to bid uh shortly after that in December. We got our bids back January 21st. We selected Clayton Holdings. They were the lowest price. Uh we've had good relations with them and some of the others. Uh so I'm asking for the approval so we can proceed.

I'll make a motion to approval if there's no questions. And I I have just one. Both the percentage rates are the same between if I'm look am I looking at the right one? Yeah, it's a rounding. If you keep going there's a slight difference. There's a dollar amount. That's what I wanted. There wasn't anything. This is the closest I've seen in the last I mean we were under $1,000 difference between the two, which is super great rate, healthy. I'm good. I move to approve. Second. All right, it's been moved and second. All in favor say I. I. All post, same sign. Thank you. Thank you.

Item G, budget software purchase. Consider staff request to purchase clear gov budget budget software in the amount of $34,515 annually with an additional onetime setup fee of $15,120 to be funded through general fund finance department budget.

Okay. I think I uh gave you guys a packet last meeting um that had all the information on for this. Um given our current situation and where we've been for 26 budget um we can see what manual Excel spreadsheets um can cause some risk to the documents that we produce. Um I think this um after going through a demo and I've talked with this gentleman several times. They have a good product and I know that they have 17 Kansas um municipalities that use their software. Um it also participates in um the uh national byboard and national purchasing cooperative to assure competitive pricing. So that's uh included in there. And then any other documents um that you have that you would like to see. I I have a question for I guess you Jarren. We spent taxpayers money to the tune of $400,000 for a financial management system. Is that implemented yet?

Oh, no, no, no. That's been two days a week for the last two to three days a week where it's going to be September. I think they said late or in fall. Yeah, it's it's pretty big. And we haven't we haven't completely paid for that. We've just been paying progress payments as we go. But it's going to cost $400,000 31 change.

So the next question I have in this contract has been amended uh by this client which is us through Tyler. And uh it says whereas Tyler and client desire to amend the terms of the agreement as provided herein. And I go down through here and I read the services services set forth in exhibition one will provide in accordance with the statements of work attached in here to exhibit three. So I go back to part of this contract. In exhibits three, it says the following amendment invest investment summary details the additional software products and services to be delivered by us Tyler to you the city in terms of agreement. And then I go further back in here and and look and see what that means is Tyler software by doing this they're going to have software. They're going to have support staff training our staff and uh they go through the everything in the finance and I'm I'm reading finan financial management assist mobile bid management inventory priority priority based budgeting priority based budgeting additional departments priority based budgeting three departments priority based budgeting enterprise and I just wonder is that why why are we looking at spending another almost $50,000 for budget software? Isn't that included in in what we spent 400,000 for?

There there is a budgeting um module in that, but it's not not as uh user friendly as what this other one is. and it does not create um any budget book where the other one has the budget book and it integrates all that together and it also um doesn't have the personnel budgeted in there. So that would still be a piece that we'd have to budget outside of there with Excel spreadsheets. The budget book would still have to be done and still have all of that manual carry over into a PDF document that would have to be a narrative that we would have to create. So it will track a budget. You can create a budget in the software and it would have different from what I think from our demo. It would have different um like a budget um example one and then you could modify it and see what you could do what if analysis for like your first draft would be draft one your f or second draft would be draft two and you could do those but it doesn't give you the type of budgeting software that this has. This is very interactive and it it it pulls down your GL and then you can budget um you're you're you can make notes, you can budget um you remember what else it said. I mean

it there's a distinction and you're absolutely right to bring out those those that question. Putting the actual budget together that we're going to use on a regular basis is a complicated process regardless. All right. And the software that we're buying, the the Tyler software does help us put our budget together. This docu this is a a piece of software that we're thinking about getting that actually creates the documents and pulls together multiple pieces creates uh creates graphics right in integrates the personnel component to it makes it easier to understand this thing the the budget system that Tyler is going to do is going to do be very solid financials and we'll put a good solid budget together and we'll be able to use the uh departments way more than we have in the past to help put the budget together the the software that that Missy's considering here is something that we would use to put together a document that to improve transparency. It makes it more visible and we could put we can translate it directly into the into a website that's much easier for the public to read. The financial management software doesn't do that kind of piece,

right? This does.

And and you know what you're saying is exactly what when I said you know this this software after I watched the demo and I went to Darren and I went to Jay, they're saying Tyler already has a budgeting module. Why why are we going to have to buy another one? they asked the same question. And so we went back and we watched the the uh demo for Tyler's product versus what the demo was for um clear gov and it was quite a bit different. It was quite quite it was much more powerful and and um integrated. I think if you look at page eight in your packet, it kind of explains the budget side of it, which is like Jay said, the financial management system is going to do budgeting because it has to give us actuals and you know what we're going to plan for this year. And like Missy said, if you want to have two or three different iterations of what the budget could be this year, so you guys could look at what if we did this with raises, but this is actually creating a digital book that has charts that has all the things that most of the cities quite frankly that are bigger than us are using um because they obviously know how arguous it is to put it together. Um we haven't made the jump yet. Um I do want to point out this is just one vendor and there's probably have we looked at other vendors? I had one that reached out to me on the 4th of February and um I just watched the three minute overview of that budget and it's very similar to this product. I do not know what the pricing is on the other one. They said in Kansas they it's called Yuna and it's called Questica budget. um UNIA budget it says it's in Kansas for organizations like the city and county of we dot and KCK city of Overland Park Selen County Shauny County and Padawatami County they've all replaced their manual spreadsheets

well for me we have to as a commission try to correct the mistakes that were made that happened and we got to watch the expenditures we spent $400 000 for this and maybe maybe why don't we let see where this goes and see if that is what we need. If it's not we need to have bids on this stuff. I mean you're just saying another 50,000 to the taxpayers. Uh that doesn't work for me from now on. I know staff recommends stuff, but staff ought to have a bid process so we can determine what's the best bang for our buck for the taxpayer.

It does have the by the buy board uh purchasing um national group comparison. Yeah. Yeah. Well, for me tonight without without the bid project process, I I won't be approving this. So, I don't know what the rest of your thoughts are.

I just I I've been doing a lot of research on this. I' I've gone through uh clear gov. I've gone through open gov. I've looked at several that are very similar and provide the same product. Uh and their promises kind of all look the same across the board. Um they do all have uh the implementation issues where data comes from hard documents moved into the uh database software in the cloud. Um for me, I just I'd like to see a little bit more before we uh bid on a contract with a specific location. I I agree with the mayor on the bid process for something like this and it is it's very similar to our IT issues that we had to go through and get uh defined detail on how it works and the need. Um I was kind of uh I don't know I went through Tyler's uh information showing the budget information they have there. They have module based stuff as well that could be adjusted and adapted to what we're looking at as well. Have we looked at the price to change or alter the existing uh product that Tyler's providing once this is done or have we just

Yeah. None none of the offerings that Tyler has were as extensive as as the one as the one in clear gov or in open gov. We just wanted that to be a it was a question of ease of use full transparency ease of you know presenting it. Uh that's that's where we were leaning on with these other products. So most and I was kind of surprised you guys chose clear gov over open gov because the majority of what I found open gov is built for municipalities of this size and larger. So what was the determination to go with?

Um uh when I when I first started Margie was talking about a budget software and this is one that she's seen used and was had experience with it. So, it was one that she had recommended and that's how I um I just happened to be solicited by them and I thought, "Okay, I'm going to watch a demo." And so, I did and then I watched this other demo on the other one, but I haven't watched it yet. Okay. I think you alluded to it, but I think you said something about just to be clear on the bid process. You were saying is there a national contract like a or competitive? They they already competitive bid contract. Yeah, they've already um uh clear Gov has been vetted by B by board, a national purchasing cooperative to assure competitive pricing. Okay.

Um the one thing I do want I mean I'm okay with us waiting on this and going ahead and getting quotes on them. Um but one thing is we probably won't have it if we go through all of that. We will not have it in place for our 27 budget. they just they I mean we've already pushed him back and he said that you know there's a 90-day there's at least a 90-day uh implementation once we get um once we sign with them. So So we're looking at three months to implement which doesn't mean we can't do the budget the way we've done it especially after all the

well we could all use what Tyler has. That's what I think we ought to but I mean it's not as clear. It's not going to be in the in a in a in a kind of a program budget format. It's gonna be a little bit harder to understand. Uh but we could we could use but they're gonna train us to understand it, right? We won't have Tyler in place until fall. So we won't be able to use that for 27 either. So we don't have anything but going back to Excel spreadsheets unless they can get it they can ramp it up. But it's going to be hard for us to do it under 90 days just because we have the other implementation going. So yeah, I just want you to be aware of that. So thank you. U move to table this item. Seconded.

Additional information and bid process. It's been moved and second to table it. All in favor say I. I. All oppose. Same sign.

Motion to table. We get further information. Thank you. Budget calendar. Consider the proposed 2027 budget calendar. Take the action deemed appropriate. I don't know that we're looking for action, but um we're definitely looking for feedback. This is a plan. We've worked with the department heads. Um so the traditional budget, we kind of go through this informally. Um once again, most of our budgeting is around rates and property tax. So whatever we set the whatever we get the assessed valuation back, that kind of drives where we've lived. Um I had a call today from somebody in town and they said, "Hey, I looked at the all this discussion about the mill rate. I looked at the mill the last few years. It looks like um for the last five or six years, we haven't really The mill's basically the same as it always is. And that's because that was your intent was to leave the mill the same and live with what we had. Um but as far as discussion of the budgets and the department heads, um it's a good exercise for them. It seems like after speaking with most of you, that's what you wanted to do. So, we put together a budget calendar which would start um the next meeting. We're starting with some of the smaller departments because they'll be easier. Uh Missy has a form of um she's going to have to use the existing financial management system, pull down that four or five years of actuals, give you the adopted budget for 2026, do the same thing for um the positions so you can see what the positions are. And then we'll just spend three months at each meeting um before the meeting. Um hopefully an hour can get most of it, but we get into public works, utilities, police, probably need to do an hour and a half. Um, but this is a way to let people know ahead of time which departments are going to be talked about. It also lets the department heads know ahead of time how much time they have to pull together their information because more than just going through a budget book. We're going to have them talk to you about their challenges, talk

to you about their history of staffing. We've added some positions to codes over the years and and at other places, but um you know, especially when you get into public safety, the nuances of the public safety sales tax and and equipment and then the property tax. So um this is the plan. We've run it by the department heads a couple times. They've changed a few of these around, but I think we can make all these dates work right now based on everybody's calendar. So just wanted to make it um take the opportunity to put it in front of you and see if you have any discussion points you want to have on what you think of it. And uh I will point out um in June 16th, county clerk assess valuation estimate for property taxes. Then June 23rd um after talking to Lisa at our joint meeting, it sounds like she'd be willing to come in and actually give us a presentation on the assessed valuation so we can kind of walk through um how it's put together and everybody can get a little bit understanding on the front end of what RID and TIFFs are, how they work, how they go into the equation. um if there's any $15 million hospitals that are that just got sold that are not on the tax roles, but I think it'd be better coming from them than us trying to uh convince you after this year that hey, we we understand it perfectly. So, this is the calendar.

I I I just want to say I think this is great. We made a mistake. We're trying to correct it. We want to be transparent. Uh you know, I think we did the right thing as a commission. We voted on start 2027 budget uh in the rears 207,000 take the mill levy down to originally what it was and I think the consensus is even taking it lower than that. So we're going to have to make some decisions you know as a commission and be involved in this. You know I think it's great. You know, the only the only thing that I really bugs me that I've heard lately from management a couple different times is when employees have the impression that we as a commission how we're going to fix the budget, we're going to get rid of employees. That's never been ever said by any of us. That's the last thing any of us want to do. And I I really don't like how that's going to the employees. Just want to let them know we're not after their jobs. We made a mistake. We admitted that we made a mistake and we're going to fix it. But to put the employees under stress that we're after their job, that's that's not and and I've talked to employees uh that's been out working. They never said that to me. They they thank me. uh and not not only me that commissioned that we're trying to correct the problem. They're taxpayers as well as we are. But they're I haven't heard from them. They're concerned that we're going after their jobs. I just don't like that message. Who wherever it's coming from when it goes to employees, but this is the right thing we should do.

Did you say you have you have heard that or you haven't heard?

I haven't heard it. I've heard it from a couple people in management. employees are concerned that we're going to eliminate employees to reduce the budget and that's not I can only speak for myself the rest of the commissioner if that's their plan you know uh they could say it but I don't think it is so I just think it's wherever that's coming from it's they're sending the wrong message to our employees our employees work hard they do their job and we support them and fixing our mistake is not on the backs of employees so that's what I wanted to So, I don't know if any other other ones want to make any comments about it. Have you heard from people employees concerns? I haven't. I just heard a couple people in management say this this each department is kind of worried now that uh that we're going to have their employees and that's not my intention. And

I haven't heard anybody say that. So,

well, management are employees. So, I would like to bring that to your attention. I don't know who told you that, but um everybody's employees. Um we've we've had a lot of conversations internally about um cutting the budget, cutting the budget, cutting the budget. Um I've personally um spoken up and said that u we're going to go through the budget and we're going to look at the budget. I think it's an opportunity for the employees to tell you and tell the citizens what they do because I don't think um what they really do is appreciated by a lot of people and I think there's a lot of things that they go through on a on a budgetary basis. Um the idea that we just spend every dollar we have um you know the employees know that they're under um scrutiny. We we've adopted expenditure policies. We've adopted reserve policies. Um we've adopted policies for um how to finance things and how we can invest. Um but the employees um are just people and when we have 41% of our expenses are employees and we talk about um we got to cut the budget, we got to cut the budget, they they listen, they read the paper and they watch these meetings. So, um, but I would like to remind us that, um, we're all employees and I've done everything that I can to convince them that that is not any of your agendas. And I hope you're being honest with me when you tell me it's not because, um, there's a lot of things that we do at this city. There's a lot of services that we provide. Um, can we do without some of them for a year or two or five or 10? Yeah, we could always do that. We can defer maintenance forever if we want. Um, but we are in a situation where we have a strong economy and um, we need to make sure that we're providing the maximum services that we can um, for the residents and I think they all do a great job of that and I think they'll appreciate hearing from you that you're not here to cut them out of the budget.

Well, I I you know, absolutely. But I think we we listen to management. we we go through the budget process, but I think another tool that we can use is the actual employees that do the job. Maybe they have some ideas where we could be more efficient in what we do. So, you know, I want to hear from everybody, whether you're you city manager or your employee out doing the job, maybe they have some thoughts that we can maybe pick their brain and how can we do this job for less money. Maybe they got some ideas. I I know we're at a point now we got to try to win the trust back to taxpayers. I I think most of them understand that we're trying to do that. But we can use all the help we can get whether it's you know you Darren or employees. If there's a if there's a way we can do the job for less money let's listen to everybody. So

I think you know when you when you discuss a problem like we have for the last how many weeks on and on pretty soon rumors are going to spread. Sure. As they as they have a tendency to do. People are going to start wondering about their jobs. And and you know I've always said that if you if you want to hear something come and ask me if you want to know something come and ask me. I'll be happy to tell you the truth across the board. And as far as I'm concerned, nobody needs to worry about their job at this point.

I'd like to say that as well as a as a new commissioner, um the the response is has always been as a civilian, the first thing you go after is your personnel to cut cut waste and cut costs and to to fix problems with that. And I keep hearing the statement, be good stewards of the taxpayers's money. We're also responsible up here to be good stewards of our employees. And that's also the focus of this commission. um you just you have to take in account all the things that are going on and again I'll use this phrase a lot throughout my time as a commissioner but the moving parts are forever moving uh but yeah the the intent is to not reduce a bunch of personnel to cover what's happened and how to make things moving forward more accurate. Um I do like this calendar go back to that. I I appreciate the the work that's gone into this and I do think it'll be effective to get the commission more involved. Um I do as far as the uh department heads coming to these meetings, they'll have time to prepare, they'll brief their uh summarized budgets where they're at and uh we'll discuss line items. Is there any type of incentive for the city employees that I'm not aware of right now for coming up with better ways of doing things? Does the city have anything like that?

No. Um, we have we have spent um 14 years trying to drive quality from the department heads. When I got here, the department heads had a ridiculous amount of power and then there was kind of a vacuum. Um, we've added layers into the personnel. We've tried to retain employees instead of just having them um leave as often as they can. I think we're not going to be able to promise you that we're going to have 300 employees come in here under each one of these and you're going to get to talk to every one of them, but we've already made it clear to the department heads that we want them to bring their division heads in and we want to have an honest conversation, but um everybody that's in management as as the mayor calls it. I I think a lot of supervisors and people I mean we clear in the police department you go down to corporals and sergeant who's actually a manager and who's um everybody in this city um we try to talk to on a regular basis and everybody I think has a pretty good manager and understands that hey if there's a way to save money if there's a way to work safer if there's a way to automate um that's something we've always been about so um no we don't have any rewards and recognition programs for efficiencies but that's basically due to the cost and the the lack of stuff coming back. I mean, at times we had in the last 14 years, but

we have recognition awards.

Yeah. I mean, we we acknowledge, but I think at the same time, we uh there's a lot of people. It seems like the younger the employees are, the better they are with technology and they do know how to use things. Um so, we've been very blessed with um having a lot of quality employees that have stayed around. So, I think we're real lucky. But, um yeah, I mean, we're always looking for a way to do it better. We've if you if you if you haven't noticed um you know we used to do we used to have our own paving plant um not very efficient usually broken down didn't get a lot done we've moved off of that model um we were in the cemetery business the cemetery was fallen over the mausoleum couldn't be taken care of uh we moved off of that model um there's a big push at the city to be innovative and there it doesn't just exist at the management level anybody that has a good idea understands that it's a pretty open environment from it and they can bring it to us. We're always looking to save money and do it better because we have a lot to do that we're not doing right now.

I think that's a that's a good point too. People understand there's always going to be new things that need done. There's projects out there that are being put on hold. Um I do feel we're in uh as you call it the vacuum. We use that uh where we're doing so many things. There's so many moving parts, so many tax abatements, so many new things happening that it's becoming convoluted and it's hard to track. So I think the trying to cut our lower our expenditures is a better phrase um makes sense with all those things included. So

part of that presentation will be the things that we currently aren't doing that they'd like to do because that's what my job usually is all week long is telling them no probably not this year but it's a good idea. George, back to the budget calendar. You're talking about 4:30. Us having a

We'll do the first ones will start at 4:30. We'll see how long they go. Um, just remember with the commission meetings, they don't have to start at 5:30. They just can't start before 5:30. So, if we start at 4:30 and it goes 15 minutes long, other than the people that are sitting here waiting for it to start, um, we're not going to be in violation of anything. But the idea is we'll start with an hour and, uh, we'll just see what we can do after that. I just with this I'd ask to with that time scope let's keep it fluid if needed for popups and things that are happening to either do it before the meetings or do it after the meetings if it makes more sense. So we're not again

to not put it uh define it to have the all the meetings be done before the commission meetings just to kind of try to keep it fluid. So if we do need to do it after a commission meeting it's going to be long. You bet. I mean, whatever you guys want to do. And when we're doing these meetings, public can listen, but they're not going to have questions, right? Or or we take questions. You guys, you don't usually ask me how you want to handle public input. So, I'm I'm going to defer to you. I mean, it's your meeting. You can Well, I mean, we got a lot to get through and you know, the public wants to ask questions. We got to keep it if if it's an hour, we can't have

Well, think of think of it like this, mayor. This is the beginning of the budget process that you all have asked for. The budget doesn't get adopted until September. So, anything that comes out at this meeting, if people want to submit questions, if they hear something, they wonder, hey, why are we doing crack sealing that way? I mean, that's the whole point of doing it ahead of time is now we can get as much input from anybody. So, I don't think at that specific meeting, you can only talk about public works at the public works meeting. Yeah. Just if you hear it and you and and you and you think somebody wants to share something with us, the other thing you could do is is ask them to submit a question and then we can we can follow up the next the next session with a uh with an answer or to try to get the correct

and since they know this will be published they can submit it before we get there and maybe if we have time we can go through some of the questions people asked. But yeah, it'd be hard to answer the questions when we're going through it. Like you said, the next meeting try to answer whatever, but then it's cutting into the next. It's always hard to answer a question. You don't know the question. So, if they can give it to us in advance, we can definitely give it a try. And if not, we can maybe we can just post them on our website and stuff, but it's it's just a conversation starter, but it's really a chance for you to hear from the employees directly about what their challenges are, what their programs and services are. All right. Is there a motion to approve this budget calendar? You don't do we need one? Okay.

It says take action deem appropriate. We have to vote on it or we're I was referring if you guys wanted to change something or you didn't like the format if you're okay with it to resolution or agenda it's locked in. That way we'll have to make changes each time. So that's what I was asking earlier if we keep it fluid so we can alter it if needed. All right. Moving on to non-aggenda reports and requests. And it looks like we have a few.

I'll keep it quick, brief. Um, if you guys remember last working day, you tasked me with uh providing you with a draft for shipping containers. This is that draft. It's a very rough draft. U, I really am looking and not for tonight. I don't need any action tonight, but what I'm looking for is direction on which way you want to go with with this ordinance. I'll look over real quick. I I think it looks good what I what I would skimmed of it. So, it's a good start. Can you look at it in the next couple weeks and if you if you want to consider it, you know, if you if you want additional requirements or regulations for residential neighborhoods, if you want uh less less requirements, I just need a direction to go with it.

How did you how'd you arrive at everything that's in it? I went to a couple other cities and looked at other cities and tried to put stuff together for us. And I talked to a few contractors here that, you know, they want to build houses. They want to do things out of these, but obviously it's always the old nimi, not my backyard. We want it, but not right here. So, this is where I'm asking you guys. Hey, how do how do you want this? So, I can get it to you. Do any Did any of them say anything about a time element? I mean, you can can Yeah, on the permanent or there's permanent or there's temporary. obviously that you know we have a lot of people that want to use them for a temporary structure while they remodel uh while they move things like that. So

what I'm saying is that we give them a finite time time you know like you got one year or six months or something you got well that's the input we're looking for. Yeah, that's kind of what I'm asking you for. The way it looked like it addresses by permit, right? It is. So, all of them would require a permit. I think that's very important. Whether you set them, you know, in a side triangle back to the setbacks or uh do they match the neighborhood or or are we trying to stack them on top of each other? So, uh do we have more than one HOA in Pittsburgh? Silverbox HOA, right, Commissioner? I'm unaware of that. Are they or not? Ken,

so I guess what I'm getting at HOA even though we have an ordinance we adopt, they could keep s these shipping containers out of their development or not. Even though there's an HOA, I don't think there's enough them through their HOA. Do what? They can prohibit them through their HOA. Yeah. Are are you asking if their HOA overrides us? Well, I'm just kind of getting off track here because, you know, we have an ordinance that's going to allow these in any place in Pittsburgh, right? Uh, it's up to you. That's that's what I'm asking from you is, do you want to allow them?

Well, I hate to go back to an ordinance we had on a daycare. uh they were allowed anywhere in Pittsburgh and for some odd reason certain neighborhoods didn't want it and you know they wanted it somewhere else besides their neighborhood if that's what how's this going to work out if no that was a public hearing and I and I don't think you know we don't unless they're asking for a variance or something we're not going to a public hearing it would just be like if you wanted to add one to your backyard for a storage shed and what requirements ments are you wanting in place to put this in a residential neighborhood? You just come get a building permit and put it in. That's not a public hearing. Okay.

So, you said you went to other uh cities to kind of get input from what they do and how they manage it because it is becoming more popular. Did they have any issues with health concerns or occupation people using them as homes without them being completely renovated? No. the 2021 building codes really started addressing occupancy living in these making tiny homes out of them. Uh most people that are following those haven't had any issues. The places you went to didn't have any. I didn't go to I I just vis visited all I think we need to read the draft and probably answer a lot of our questions once you read the draft. I mean I think that's going to answer a lot of our own questions. No, I don't it doesn't hurt to ask questions. Yeah, I didn't I didn't see any. Don't know.

For as large as they are, some of them aren't even going to fit on lots anyway. So, it depends. I think the main thing to think about is zoning, use safety. That's that's really the feedback we're looking for. What What would you like? Do you want to do an ordinance at all? And if you do, what are your thoughts on does it need to be zoned? How safe does it need to be? Who's going to maintain it? Aesthetically, what does it look like? I mean, we're really just coming to you at step one of What are your thoughts on this? We're starting to see more and more, so it's probably time to get it in front of you. Thanks, director. Thank you.

Another one. We got one more.

All right. I mean, I mean to drag it on. Um uh about four year about four years ago, we sold our Southwest Industrial Park to Talonex. Uh they're they're still are going to build a a plant on that on that space. When we did that transaction, that was a real estate transaction. We carved out a a a strip of land uh that was a 60-oot rideway, intended to be a 60oot rideway for the for the road that had been used to service those areas. that area and then the area to the north of of of that Southwest Industrial Park, right? We never consummated or finalized any of the deed on that on that little strip of land. And we'd really like to to create a road rightway as as part of that deal. So, what what I'm asking for is is is approval to to change that little strip of land that the city owns the city owns uh into a road right away for for future development of that area. and glad to answer any questions. It's it's just to if you just to remind you where it is.

So they're they're while you're working to find that they're talking about that they're still planning on building it. Is there a window when they want to occupy it and actually utilize it? It's a it's actually for the there's a temp there's a road there. Um, it served the property to the north. The the property that we bought, it was always just a field. There was nothing there ever. But when we bought it, we knew that that road was going to need to be the access to the property to the north. The property to the north is now selling. And so, the title work is requiring that we actually do the formal part of making it was an easement. Is that what you're making? It's a It's a road right away.

Yeah. Make a road right away. So, it's always it's always been a road. Um, it's always had public access, but there's a really weird property situation. So, now it's time to What about the improvements on it? Well, right now it's um I think Matt's sick today, but it's in reasonable shape now, but we will be taking over the maintenance of it once we once we turn it into a road. The company that was using it was in the asphalt business, so it's about that thick of asphalt. So, it's a decent little roadway. It's not improved. It doesn't have curves and gutters, but Jay, would you move the mouse on where it's at? It's It's along this uh Let me go. You can It's this area right here. The west side of our property. This is the uh This is the east of Hackard's Road.

Right. Right. It's down. It's this little area right here. All right. So, you're saying that there's an asphalt road there now? There is. Yeah. Okay. And it's different from the one that looks like it's to the west there of it. No, that's not a road. That's not a road. No, that's a strip of Oh, it's a farm. It's a farm. I see. This is a I'll zoom in so you can see a little better. I see. It may have been at one time. It might have been, but it it isn't. Looks like it has telephone poles all the way back. I think it's mo where they mowed underneath the telephone poles there. Okay.

We're looking at changing it to an accessible road the city has access and use for the future of the use of the area. What do we have a cost projection on what it's going to cost to get it fully functional? Zero cost internal. No, there's no cost at this point. It will be a future cost because we'll have to maintain it, but it's in pretty good shape now. So, what what about all the way to the north of Ridley block there? Does it go around Ridley and around we uh or does it go? I'm sure I'm sure the future owner would like us to do that, but we're not ready to do that yet. Well, if something gets developed there and and we take over maintenance of that road, it's going to have to be improved for fire trucks to travel on it.

It's it's a pretty thick piece of road right now and and wide enough for a fire truck. Is it wide enough? Yes. What about when they get down there? How do they get back out? Turn around somehow. Just turn around. Just turn around. That road has been used for decades. This there's a great deal of space here. This is not a dirt road. This is a road that the asphalt plant used to get in and out of for the last 40 years. I mean, yeah. All we're really asking you for is let's officially make it a road and name it. And the guy that bought the property suggested thought a pretty cool name. So,

yeah. The uh the he suggested the name of the one of the founders of the plastics program at PSU because uh the person who bought the the property here is a is a plast is going to put a plastics injection molding plant there. I couldn't tell you his name, but George Graham George George Graham Road is what's on the table. But anyway, we're just trying to formalize this so they get the they get to sell the property. Okay. I would then I would move that we do that second that we make the moved and seconded. All in favor say I. I. All oppose. Same time. Motion carries.

Thank you. But we went through all. Is there any more non-aggenda reports and requests?

I don't think so. I have one just so people know. Does anybody know what happened February the 11th of 1898? The fire department was formed in Pittsburgh, Kansas. It's 127 years old tomorrow. That's a pretty big accomplishment being that they started out with only $745 and uh four guys and two horses and a wagon that they pulled. And if you go on the history of the fire department on the website, that's where I found it. I I I was very intrigued by it and where the original firehouse was. And those guys back then, man, they were rock stars evidently. They were tired before they got to the fire. So, I just want to commend the fire department for 127 years.

Thank you. Buckets and hooves. All right. Yes. Just like the first school 1877 was down on on Walnut Street. Maybe we should have a a trivia of Pittsburgh every commission meeting. That'd be awesome. Thank you. It's our 150th birthday. It probably wouldn't be a bad idea. Yes. So, if anybody has anything, this would be a good time to share it.

That's all I had. All right, moving into executive session. An executive session is necessary necessary to discuss personnel matters of non-elected personnel pursuant to KSA75-4319 B1 to discuss the salary increase of certain law enforcement personnel. Motion to recess in executive session for 15 minutes to discuss the salary increase of certain law enforcement personnel pursuant to the non-elected personnel exemption under KSA75-4319B1 with a meeting to resume in the commission room in 15 minutes. Uh is there a motion to recess for 15 minutes? So move

second and moved and second. We are at recess for 15 minutes. We got a vote. Oh. Oh, yeah. All in favor? I I was for a favor. I said I do that.

Anyone there? No, we don't have All right, we're back from uh recess and executive session. No decisions were made. No votes were cast. Uh, commissioners, mayor, I'm looking at this time for a motion for an increase uh for the sergeant. So moved. Second. If you could elaborate a little bit, how much of an increase?

Uh, we're looking at a 5% increase. There go. There's a motion and a second. All in favor say I. I. All oppose. Same sign. Thank you, Bren. Thank you. Move to adjourn. Yeah, I don't think so, Doc. Not yet. Not yet. We got two more. Got two more. We got a lot of stuff to go here, Doc. Read the paper. Uh oh, I I forgot.

Executive session is necessary to discuss personal matters of non-elected personnel pursuant to KSA75-4319B1 to discuss the salary increase of certain certain law. Is that fine? That's a different one.

Another one. Certain law enforcement personnel. Motion to recess an executive session for 15 minutes to discuss the salary increase of certain law enforcement personnel pursuant to non-elected personnel exception under KSA75-4319B1 with a meeting to resume in the commission room in 15 minutes. Is there a motion to recess in executive session? Mayor, do you think it'll take 15 minutes? Huh? Do you think it'll take 15 minutes? Yeah, that's what it calls for. That's what we're going to do. Okay. So, is there a motion? I'll make a motion to recess. Is there a second? There's been a motion and uh seconded. All in favor say I.

I. All oppose, same side. We are in recess. 15 minutes.

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So, we're back from recess executive session and no decision were made. No votes were cast. Uh, mayor commissioners would entertain a motion to increase the starting wage of a dispatcher to $18 an hour and adjust any or all existing dispatchers $1.50 per hour to their salary. So moved. Second and moved and second. All in favor say I.

All oppose same time. Motion carries. Thanks, Brent. Thank you. Executive session is necessary to discuss personal matters of non-elective personnel pursuant to KSA754 4319B1 to discuss the city manager 2026 goals and letter of agreement. Motion to recess an exe executive session for 30 minutes to discuss the city manager's 2026 goals and letter of agreement pursuant to non-elected personnel exception under KSA75-44319B1 with a meeting to resume in the commission room in 30 minutes. Is there a motion to recess into executive session?

So moved. Second. Been moved and second. All in favor say I. I

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decisions were made. No votes were cast. But uh where is this? We need to have another executive session is necessary to discuss personal matters and non-elected personnel pursuant to KSA 75-44319 B1 to discuss the city manager's letter agreement. Uh motion to recess into executive session for 30 minutes to discuss the city manager's letter of agreement pursuant to non-elected personnel exemption under KSA 754319B1 with the meeting to resume in the commission room in 30 minutes. Is there a motion to recess for 30 minutes?

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for passed. Uh I'll entertain a motion for German. So moved. Second. Then move and second. All in favor say I. I. All post same time. We are German. Have a good night.